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| n0ano | #startmeeting scheduler sub-group | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 21 15:00:19 2013 UTC. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scheduler sub-group)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scheduler_sub_group' | 15:00 |
| n0ano | show of hands, anyone here for the scheduler meeting? | 15:00 |
| *** senhuang has joined #openstack-meeting | 15:00 | |
| * glikson here | 15:00 | |
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| jgallard_ | hi all :) | 15:00 |
| senhuang | hi all | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | Well, while waiting for people to get here, a little administrivia... | 15:01 |
| n0ano | I have to leave after 20 min (my wife is having oral surgery) senhuang can I tag you to chari when I leave (mainly make sure you do an #endmeeting)? | 15:02 |
| senhuang | sure | 15:02 |
| n0ano | s/chari/chair | 15:02 |
| n0ano | senhuang, tnx | 15:02 |
| senhuang | n0ano: no problem! | 15:02 |
| jgallard_ | n0ano, I'm not sure someone else can do an endmeeting for you | 15:02 |
| n0ano | #chair senhuang | 15:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: n0ano senhuang | 15:02 |
| *** mdomsch has quit IRC | 15:03 | |
| n0ano | uh oh, I have to be careful, senhuang can override my commands now :-) | 15:03 |
| n0ano | anyway, let | 15:03 |
| jgallard_ | n0ano, ok :) | 15:03 |
| n0ano | let's get started, maybe some lurkers will appear | 15:03 |
| n0ano | #topic network bandwidth aware scheduling | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "network bandwidth aware scheduling (Meeting topic: scheduler sub-group)" | 15:04 | |
| PhilDay | I filed a BP to cover this. | 15:04 |
| n0ano | anyone here want to drive this discussion (I have some ideas but this is not my BP) | 15:04 |
| n0ano | PhilDay, you have the floor | 15:04 |
| alaski | hi all | 15:04 |
| garyk | hi | 15:04 |
| PhilDay | Basic idea for now is pretty simple - count the bandwidth allocated to flavors in the the same sort of way that we do memory | 15:05 |
| PhilDay | so that its possibel to use overall bandwidth of a server as a scheduling constraint | 15:05 |
| n0ano | fine idea, my concern is that this is rather specific, I'd prefer a more general mechanism | 15:06 |
| garyk | PhilDay: do you mean taking free bandwidth into account? | 15:06 |
| PhilDay | Difference is that the hypervisor probably can't derive the total available bandwidth, so it will need to be configured on a per host basis | 15:06 |
| senhuang | this requires the host-manager to report the total bandwidth capability to the scheduler? | 15:06 |
| PhilDay | Yep | 15:06 |
| n0ano | could this be part of something like extending data in host state that has been proposed? | 15:06 |
| PhilDay | If that is in place then we'd build on that for sure | 15:06 |
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| PhilDay | the flavor already has an rxtx_factor which is used in Xen | 15:07 |
| senhuang | PhilDay: I see. that is good. | 15:07 |
| PhilDay | there used to be an rxtx_cap, which is more along the lines that we were looking for | 15:07 |
| glikson | yep, sounds like a reasonable extension to yet another kind of resource that would make sense to manage host capacity for. | 15:07 |
| n0ano | would this be an extension to the rxtx_factor or a replacement for it? | 15:08 |
| PhilDay | I'm not quiet sure what triggered the shift, rxtx_factor is just a relative measure - so what you get with that depoend on which host you get scheduled to | 15:08 |
| senhuang | what the constraint will look like? will we have a constraint for rx and one for tx? | 15:09 |
| PhilDay | I was thinkign that maybe we could also set the rxtx valeu as a port property in case Quantum can do somethign more fancy with it in terms of QoS - | 15:09 |
| PhilDay | I was thiking more of just a sinlge cap, but I guess it could be two values if you think there is a use case. | 15:09 |
| senhuang | PhilDay: that might be something we can discuss with Quauntum team. they are also working on a QoS blueprint. | 15:10 |
| n0ano | if the rxtx is truly a ratio then it wouldn't really work for a QoS value, I can still steal rx bandwidth just by doing some tx | 15:10 |
| PhilDay | Given that it goes into the flavor I'm wary of havign to have lost of different flavors for people to choose from | 15:10 |
| n0ano | PhilDay, in that case maybe it's more appropriate to be part of the image attributes | 15:11 |
| garyk | in quantum there was a little discusion about qos, but nothing concreate at the moment | 15:11 |
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| PhilDay | I'm always wary of buildign on too many other BPs - so maybe we juist go for a simple bandwitdh based scheduleing for now (i.e the network peer of memory capacity) so that we can stay independent | 15:11 |
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| n0ano | unfortunately, the cloud provider (the who worries about bandwidth) has no control over the image attributes so that might not work. | 15:12 |
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| PhilDay | don'f follow your comment on image attricbutes ? | 15:12 |
| glikson | PhilDay: true, adding an additional kind of resource would potentially invite many more flavors.. but I personally think it still makes sense. | 15:13 |
| n0ano | I thought there was an image contraints filter that utilized attributes stored as part of the meta data for the image | 15:14 |
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| * n0ano moved to a new house and my network isn't complete, can't access the right machine to research this | 15:14 | |
| n0ano | senhuang, got to go, you are now in control | 15:15 |
| PhilDay | Well there are all sorts of additional filters you can have - but that's just adding more constartints to the scheduler to work with. I don't see why image attributes wouls clash with network capacity ? | 15:15 |
| senhuang | n0ano: no problem. | 15:15 |
| glikson | there is a filter that matches image properties. but is it really an image property? | 15:15 |
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| senhuang | glikson: i agree that it is not an image property | 15:15 |
| PhilDay | I think it matches an image property (liek I need an AMD server) to a host capability (liek I an an AMD or x86 server) | 15:16 |
| PhilDay | I.e its just a binary capability filter. | 15:16 |
| PhilDay | The network bandwidth is just concerned with "where does an instance of this flavor fit" | 15:17 |
| senhuang | PhilDay: There is also a json filter that can do more operators based on requests and capabilities. | 15:17 |
| glikson | right -- not a capacity requirement. which sometimes could make sense, btw (to make sure that certain image can run with certain flavors). | 15:17 |
| PhilDay | You can match images to flavors via min_ram and min_disk metadata | 15:17 |
| PhilDay | I'm not sure I'd see a used for min_rx or min_tx though | 15:18 |
| PhilDay | Fliter scheduler does both capacity and capability matching | 15:18 |
| PhilDay | I think adding to the flavor definiton is a better model. | 15:19 |
| PhilDay | I'd rathe rhave it as a core property that encoded in extra_specs | 15:20 |
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| senhuang | then the # of flavors *= # of min_rx, min_tx pairs | 15:20 |
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| senhuang | i guess a little bit more details on the proposal will help | 15:21 |
| PhilDay | Well that depends on how much flexibility you want to provide users with | 15:21 |
| PhilDay | You could make the same case for providing every single memory size, but no-one does that | 15:21 |
| senhuang | PhilDay: that is true.. | 15:22 |
| PhilDay | There is a BP page - hang on I'll dig out the link | 15:22 |
| PhilDay | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/network-bandwidth-entitlement | 15:22 |
| PhilDay | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NetworkBandwidthEntitlement | 15:22 |
| PhilDay | Maybe people could take a look and provide feedback next week ? | 15:23 |
| senhuang | that is a good idea. | 15:23 |
| senhuang | shall we move on? | 15:23 |
| senhuang | #topic group/ensemble scheduling | 15:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "group/ensemble scheduling (Meeting topic: scheduler sub-group)" | 15:24 | |
| garyk | senhuang: you should know what this one is about :) | 15:24 |
| senhuang | garyk: yep. i know. :-) let's update the whole subteam. | 15:25 |
| garyk | ok, i'll let you do that | 15:25 |
| senhuang | on the instance group api extension, gary has submitted 30+ patches on the db support | 15:25 |
| senhuang | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28880/ | 15:26 |
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| senhuang | the development of api support for this is on-going work | 15:26 |
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| senhuang | i hope i can submit the initial patch today or tomorrow | 15:26 |
| senhuang | garyk: do you need more help on the review? | 15:27 |
| garyk | senhuang: i think that we have ironed out all of the issues. we just need some core guys to take a look | 15:27 |
| garyk | the doc describing it all is https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QUThPfZh6EeOOz1Yhyvx-jFUYHQgvCw9yBAGDGc0y78/edit?usp=sharing | 15:27 |
| senhuang | blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/instance-group-api-extension | 15:27 |
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| senhuang | wiki: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GroupApiExtension | 15:28 |
| garyk | i am going to start the conductor api side soon so that the scheduler can make use of the info | 15:28 |
| PhilDay | I found it a bit hard from just the DB change to work out exactly what relationships will be supported | 15:28 |
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| PhilDay | I thought there was a general move away from introducing features in small pieces - or has this been OK'd ? | 15:29 |
| garyk | the idea is that we will have an instance group. | 15:29 |
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| senhuang | basically, a group-instance will contains a group of VM instances, with a list of policies that can be enforced by the scheduler | 15:29 |
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| PhilDay | Yeah I got the idea from the BP - what I'm saying is that it can be quite hard to meaningfully review just one part of the changes in isolation. | 15:30 |
| garyk | PhilDay: agreed. | 15:30 |
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| PhilDay | Having a DB model with no code to drive it makes it pretty hard to see if the DB code is OK or not | 15:30 |
| garyk | hopefully when we have the API and the conductor side it will all fit in together | 15:30 |
| senhuang | yes. | 15:30 |
| senhuang | i am working on the API part | 15:31 |
| glikson | yep, we might need some refactoring around db APIs once other parts are developed | 15:31 |
| garyk | i do not think that this should prevent the pacth going through. it is very generic and covers all bases at the moment | 15:31 |
| PhilDay | Why not make that all same commit then ? | 15:31 |
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| PhilDay | Just saying that there has been push back on this kind of appraoch before | 15:31 |
| PhilDay | (But I like where teh BP is headed) | 15:32 |
| garyk | to be honest i am not sure what the approach in nova is. in quantum this is acceptability. we can certainly build the patches on on top of another if that will provide a better picture | 15:32 |
| garyk | i just think that adding one huge feature will take a tone of time. | 15:32 |
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| PhilDay | Its hard to get the right balance. | 15:33 |
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| glikson | garyk: in some cases we used dependencies between changes to have the bigger context but still review smaller pieces | 15:33 |
| garyk | glikson: i am not sure how the db piece can be made smaller. it is very isolated | 15:34 |
| senhuang | the DB part is quite stand-alone implementation | 15:34 |
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| PhilDay | I haven't seen anyone from core comment on thsi yet - which is odd for something with 30+ iterations | 15:35 |
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| glikson | garyk: I mean, to link with other pieces | 15:35 |
| senhuang | it also has enough meterials for review. | 15:35 |
| PhilDay | Mayeb worth reaching out to Russell ? | 15:35 |
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| garyk | ok, i'll try and be in touch with him | 15:36 |
| glikson | senhuang: correct, but in several other reviews it was stated that it is not a good practice to merge code that noone is using.. | 15:36 |
| PhilDay | Right now its a great patch for adding a DB table - but that seems an odd chunk to do in isolation to me | 15:36 |
| senhuang | #action Reaching out to Russell about the code reviews for parts of a big feature | 15:36 |
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| russellb | probably need the rest before you'll get much review on the db part | 15:37 |
| russellb | i wouldn't want to see it go in until the feature to use it is ready to go right behind it | 15:37 |
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| senhuang | russellb: okay | 15:38 |
| garyk | in the mean time i will add in the conductor side of things. this just seems like it is really prolonging the integration and adoption | 15:38 |
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| PhilDay | integration maybe - but you can't really adopt anything without the API and scheduler layer ? | 15:39 |
| russellb | right | 15:39 |
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| russellb | but my comment is just a general approach to review and acceptance of any feature | 15:39 |
| russellb | we don't merge the code until the whole thing is ready (with few exceptions) | 15:40 |
| senhuang | it will be a long process since there are so many pieces for the whole thing | 15:40 |
| glikson | PhilDay: well, I can think of usefulness of grouping even without having it supported in the scheduler -- but sure, the bulk of it will come with the scheduler support. | 15:40 |
| PhilDay | The risk of partial features is that they tend to de-stablise trunk, esp if you have to rework parts as you add the upper leyaers | 15:40 |
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| garyk | at the moment the scheduler has a very patchy implementation of the grouping - using the isnatnce metadata. this will be formalized and easily updated here | 15:40 |
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| glikson | garyk: right, ideally without changing the hint syntax | 15:41 |
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| PhilDay | glikson: No objection to submtiing a complete (but smaller) subset of the grouping feature and then adding scheduler support - the important part is that it completly implements some feature | 15:42 |
| garyk | i understand. i'll add the patches above this one and hopefully it will make a better picture. | 15:42 |
| garyk | we will also need nova client support | 15:43 |
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| glikson | might make sense to add nova client support together with the api support | 15:44 |
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| senhuang | garyk: i should be able to have the api part ready today. should i submit a new patch or on top of the patch you have? | 15:44 |
| garyk | senhuang: that would be great. | 15:45 |
| garyk | PhilDay: russellb: is that acceptable? | 15:45 |
| russellb | sounds like it | 15:46 |
| russellb | need novaclient support too though | 15:46 |
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| garyk | we'll take care of that | 15:46 |
| senhuang | okay. let's move on to another topic? | 15:47 |
| senhuang | #topic open-discussion | 15:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-discussion (Meeting topic: scheduler sub-group)" | 15:47 | |
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| glikson | I have a question regarding multi-scheduler blueprint (definition of different scheduler drivers and/or policies for different host aggregates). One of the assumption that we need is that host aggregates that use this feature are disjoint. Does it sound like a reasonable assumption that admin will manage it? or do we need to introduce the notion of disjoint host aggregates in the code? it might be relevant for other features as well.. | 15:50 |
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| russellb | why do they need to be disjoint? | 15:51 |
| PhilDay | So would that be a property of an aggregate - i.e you can define an aggregate that it must be disjoint, and it will then reject hosts that are part of another aggregate ? | 15:51 |
| PhilDay | I think that woudl also be useful for AZs | 15:51 |
| russellb | request comes in with an AZ (host aggregate), and that would be your key to figure out which scheduling path to take, right? | 15:52 |
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| glikson | russellb: otherwise it might create some inconsistencies, if the same host belongs to two aggregates each associated with different scheduler.. | 15:52 |
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| russellb | a host may be in AZ 1 and AZ 2, but the *request* specified AZ 2, so you'd schedule based on that | 15:53 |
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| russellb | the scheduling path you take has to be entirely based on what is in the request | 15:53 |
| glikson | I didn't think to use AZ hint for that -- just properties of the flavor, like we do with standard aggregate filter.. | 15:53 |
| PhilDay | I was thinking that it woudl just be a useful safeguard in setting up AZs. At the moment a host can be in more than one AZ (just beacause aggregates support it) - but I can't see a reason you would want to to that | 15:53 |
| russellb | there are certainly use cases for overlapping aggregates | 15:54 |
| russellb | aggregate with special hardware thing 1, and aggregate with special hardware thing 2, and some hosts may have both | 15:54 |
| glikson | PhilDay: agree, disjoint aggregates based on certain property might make sense regardless of this particular feature | 15:54 |
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| PhilDay | So having an aggregate property that says "this aggregate must be disjoint from these aggregates" would be useful at that level to avoid mistakes | 15:54 |
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| primeministerp | hi all | 15:55 |
| primeministerp | whoops my clock seems to be off by 5 | 15:55 |
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| PhilDay | Agreed that overlapping is a useful capability in some cases - I think disjoint would have to be relative to specific other aggregates | 15:56 |
| glikson | it might make sense to be able to express something like: "this aggregate should be disjoint with all the aggregates of type AZ" | 15:56 |
| PhilDay | So why does the multi scheduler need disjoint aggregates | 15:56 |
| glikson | kind of grouping of aggregates.. | 15:56 |
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| glikson | PhilDay: for consistency.. e.g., if we want to know which scheduler to use to migrate a given instance off a host, we would go to the scheduler associated with the "scheduling aggregate" that this host belongs to | 15:58 |
| PhilDay | For use in the scheduler you'd need disjoint to not be linked just to aggregates of type AZ - maybe we also need an aggregate type then (I think AZ is a special case at the moment no) ? | 15:58 |
| glikson | yep, exactly -- aggregate type sounds like a good approach. and for certain type we may require them to be disjoint (within that type). | 15:59 |
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| senhuang | okay. guys. the time is almost there. | 15:59 |
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| senhuang | let's continue the discussions next week | 15:59 |
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| PhilDay | works for me. See ya | 16:00 |
| glikson | ok. thanks, bye. | 16:00 |
| senhuang | #end-meeting | 16:00 |
| jgallard_ | ok, thanks a lot, it was very interesting :) | 16:00 |
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| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| senhuang | #end | 16:00 |
| senhuang | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 21 16:00:50 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler_sub_group/2013/scheduler_sub_group.2013-05-21-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler_sub_group/2013/scheduler_sub_group.2013-05-21-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler_sub_group/2013/scheduler_sub_group.2013-05-21-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 21 16:01:05 2013 UTC. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:01 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | Hi Everyone | 16:01 |
| luis_fdez | hi! | 16:01 |
| gokrokve | hi | 16:01 |
| mriedem | hi | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | wow | 16:01 |
| pnavarro | hello | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | lots of new folk | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | great | 16:01 |
| kirankv | hi | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: where's alex? | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | let's wait a minute for those who are late | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: thanks for the pull requests | 16:02 |
| liuxpei | hi, this is Xiao Pei from China | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: we should talk about this more off line | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | liuxpei: hellow | 16:03 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: entering now | 16:03 |
| ociuhandu | hi all | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: great | 16:03 |
| luis_fdez | primeministerp, ok, I have some suggestions/ideas to discuss | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: we need to coordinate | 16:03 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: so you can understand what I already have done | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: and what's not included in those bits yet | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | hi there! | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: hi alex | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | full house today | 16:04 |
| pnavarro | hi alexpilotti ! | 16:04 |
| luis_fdez | primeministerp, ok | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | ok let's begin then | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | liuxpei: hi, thanks for joining us! | 16:04 |
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| primeministerp | #topic open issues | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open issues (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:04 | |
| primeministerp | so there have been some new bugs | 16:04 |
| liuxpei | thanks, I wil try to join as much as I can :) | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | I can start on this one | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: please | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | There's an annoying bug on snapshot management | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | related to the size of the image | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | liuxpei: thanks for your help with that one | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | I attempted the easy way, consisting in trying to convince Glance that the size of the image is the virtual one, not th eVHD file size | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | but that's a dead end | 16:06 |
| pnavarro | alexpilotti: please link? | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | the only other way to get this done is to consider the VHD file size | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: right away :-) | 16:07 |
| liuxpei | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1177927 | 16:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1177927 in nova "VHD snapshot from Hyper-V driver is bigger than original instance" [Undecided,In progress] | 16:07 |
| pnavarro | thanks | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | tx liuxpei | 16:07 |
| liuxpei | yw | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1177927 | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | so when we spawn an image, we could simply resize the VHD to instance['root_gb'] - vhd_header_size | 16:08 |
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| alexpilotti | this way we can guarantee that the file size will be alway less than the flavor size | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: and I'm assuming this is currently the easiest way to overcome the size difference | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | we have to be consistent with this during resize as well | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | yep. The shortest path after trying to trick Glance failed :-) | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: does this make it easier to be consistant? | 16:09 |
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| alexpilotti | we have no choice | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: ok then | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | I mean, thin disks are working now | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: then let's do it | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | because the file size limit is not capped | 16:10 |
| liuxpei | a question: for VHDs with different size, does vhd_header_size always the same? | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | note: we have also to backport it to grizzly | 16:10 |
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| alexpilotti | liuxpei: yep | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | we have to remember to check aslo the VHDX header size ;-) | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: does it increase for vhdx? | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | hehe | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | it's a different value, but still fiuxed | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | *fixed | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | but different | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | i would assume it would increase | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | since we are talking about a few KB | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | we can just add a fixed vlaue > max(vhd_header, vhdx_header) | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | *value | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | i understood | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | and solve this issue | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | that works | 16:12 |
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| primeministerp | I'm all for taking this approach, I'm assuming the ammount of code is trivial | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | the alternative would be to try to add a "tolerance" in manager.py | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | but I have to convince the rest of the Nova world for that to happen ;-) | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: we don't want to have to do that | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | I think we have enough w the rest there :-) | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | I agree | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | ok, comments on this issue or should we move on? | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | ok are w/ good with this topic? | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | lol | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: ? | 16:14 |
| pnavarro | +1 ! | 16:14 |
| liuxpei | another question: file size for a VHD is the actual size for it? | 16:14 |
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| primeministerp | liuxpei: right now? | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | liuxpei: I believe so | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | liuxpei: can you please define "actual size"? | 16:15 |
| liuxpei | disk size | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | I think she means what's currently being used as disk size | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | yep file size = disk size | 16:15 |
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| primeministerp | ok | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | #topic H1 | 16:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "H1 (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:16 | |
| liuxpei | after adding a fixed vlaue > max(vhd_header, vhdx_header), then will the file size continue to be the disk size? | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | yep | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | and file size = disk size <= flavor size :-) | 16:16 |
| liuxpei | ok, I am ok with that now~ | 16:17 |
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| primeministerp | great | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | cool | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: H1 | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | ouch | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: hehe | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | I thought you were going to say that | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | let me fetch the link with the blueprints | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | lol | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | I know dust is still settling | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: while he's mentioning blueprints | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova?searchtext=hyper-v | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: are there any specific to cinder we will require? | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | so here' the list | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | I aded "only" nova and ceilometer so far | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | cinder and quantum are missing (the latter for a good reason) :-) | 16:19 |
| pnavarro | primeministerp: I'd add some one to complete the missing features that were added in G | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: great | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: thank you | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: yes understood | 16:19 |
| pnavarro | but, I won't have time for H1 | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: fair enough | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | H1 is close | 16:20 |
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| alexpilotti | H1 is just for waking up | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | hahaha | 16:20 |
| alexpilotti | H2 is the real deal and H3 is for the last minute panic | 16:20 |
| alexpilotti | so there's plenty of time :-) | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: do you want to update on the status of the clustering discussion | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | kidding, we'll have a lot of stuff in on H2 | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | we missed that whole thing last week | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | ohh yeah, clustering | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | maybe for the record | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | yep | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | #topic clustering | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "clustering (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:21 | |
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| alexpilotti | I want to hear also IBM opinion here :-) | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: I know they have one | 16:22 |
| alexpilotti | so the idea is that we got tons of requests for supporting Hyper-V host level clusters | 16:22 |
| alexpilotti | aka old school MSCS clusters with CSV storage etc | 16:22 |
| schwicht | primeministerp: he he | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | **hyper-v cluster as compute node*** | 16:22 |
| gokrokve | yes. this is a hot topic | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: ahh you joined us | 16:23 |
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| primeministerp | schwicht: glad you made it frank | 16:23 |
| schwicht | sorry it took so long ... | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | np | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | schwicht: nice to meet you | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: please continue, we have proper ibm representation in the channel | 16:23 |
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| alexpilotti | teh diea is that most Nova core guys are totally against clustering at the Nova level | 16:24 |
| alexpilotti | theyr main argument is that it simply doesn't belong to OpenStack | 16:24 |
| alexpilotti | it's not particularly easy from a technical standpoint, but feasible | 16:25 |
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| alexpilotti | on the other side, support for vCenter and SCVMM might be on the roadmap | 16:25 |
| liuxpei | one thing I want is that for VM hA, to evacuate a vm from a failure hyper-v host to another | 16:25 |
| alexpilotti | by using cells | 16:25 |
| gokrokve | If I am not mistaken Xen clusters were supported by OpenStack. At least I heard that it should work. | 16:25 |
| alexpilotti | liuxpei: that's our goal as well | 16:25 |
| liuxpei | in Havana? | 16:26 |
| alexpilotti | gokrokve: they are using a aspecific Nova feature for "grouping" the servers | 16:26 |
| alexpilotti | gokrokve: but they still have a single scheduler on top (nova-scheduler) | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: is that something we could take advantage of? | 16:27 |
| alexpilotti | the main issue in using any type of failvore clustering solution is that nova-scheduler will have a second scheduler in front | 16:27 |
| alexpilotti | which is understandable | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: in this case the hyper-v cluster resource mgr | 16:27 |
| alexpilotti | alternative would be to consider the cluster as single macro-host | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | leaving the actual host sceduling to the cluster | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | but that doesn't work for a lot of reasons | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: i can see how | 16:28 |
| schwicht | alexpilotti: can you name a few? | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | it doesn't | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | well | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | you need a single point | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | of entry | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | if it's handling hte host scheduling | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | which means | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | one node would have to be that | 16:29 |
| alexpilotti | issues: | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | bc it would make sence | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | to have a nova compute on each individual node | 16:30 |
| alexpilotti | nova-scheduler would see a single host with e.g. 200GB memory free | 16:30 |
| alexpilotti | which asctually are separated in e.g. 20GB on 5 hosts | 16:30 |
| schwicht | ok that does not work , I agree ... | 16:30 |
| primeministerp | exactly | 16:30 |
| schwicht | it makes sense to see how vmware solves that | 16:30 |
| alexpilotti | at this point it could try to boot a VM with 40GB, which is not working | 16:31 |
| schwicht | they have a total capacity and the largest deployable capacity | 16:31 |
| alexpilotti | still, the largest deployable can be above the current limit | 16:31 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: they handle it by having it talk to the higher vsphere layer | 16:31 |
| pnavarro | guys, I have to leave, I'll read the logs later | 16:32 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: thanks again | 16:32 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: bye! | 16:32 |
| alexpilotti | beside that, the stats would be very coarse, but that's a trivial issue | 16:32 |
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| alexpilotti | another problem is related to manual failover | 16:33 |
| alexpilotti | or live-migration | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: make sense | 16:33 |
| alexpilotti | being a single host from the nova perspective, there's no way to interact with each single host | 16:34 |
| alexpilotti | I proposed an alternbative, while waiting for the cell based approach to take shape | 16:34 |
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| alexpilotti | there's no particular reason for being forced to use MSCS | 16:35 |
| alexpilotti | as long as we can achieve proper HA | 16:35 |
| gokrokve | Why not to expose all cluster components individually but provide a hint to the scheduler that it is a cluster? | 16:35 |
| alexpilotti | the idea is to add a heartbeat service on each compute host | 16:35 |
| alexpilotti | gokrokve: they ditched that idea | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | gokrokve: it was proposed for baremetal initially | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | also in theory you can reach the same result of vm avialability with out the complexity of a cluster underneith | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | anyway, to finish with the potential solution | 16:37 |
| alexpilotti | we can provide agents for heartbeat | 16:37 |
| schwicht | alexpilotti: primeministerp: I think you need both .. a single point of entry for the scheuling and vm management and the enumerate cluster members to be able to set a node in maint mode | 16:37 |
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| alexpilotti | and provide failover on top of nova itself | 16:37 |
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| alexpilotti | Nova has a feature called "evacuate" | 16:37 |
| alexpilotti | we can use that to failover in case of missing heartbeat reports | 16:38 |
| alexpilotti | and handle the usual live-migration for manual failvovers as we already do | 16:38 |
| alexpilotti | IMO this would be a fairly simple approach, working with any hypervisor and available in a few days | 16:38 |
| schwicht | alexpilotti: you would miss MS system Center co-existance .. that you may get with Cell, or did I misunderstand that ? | 16:39 |
| alexpilotti | think about HALinux or similar solutions as a reference | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: you would get that w/ a cell | 16:39 |
| alexpilotti | schwicht: correct | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:40 |
| alexpilotti | schwicht: but for that we need to wait for cells to get to the stage to support it | 16:40 |
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| alexpilotti | schwicht: and even with all of VMWare pressure on the subject, I doubt it will happen for Havana | 16:40 |
| alexpilotti | so to recap we have 3 choices: | 16:40 |
| alexpilotti | 1) fork and do our cluster | 16:40 |
| alexpilotti | 2) a clustering project on top of Nova | 16:41 |
| * primeministerp doesn't support forks | 16:41 | |
| alexpilotti | 3) wait for cells | 16:41 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: it was just for completeness ;-) | 16:41 |
| primeministerp | I'll throw a +1 for #3 | 16:41 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: i know | 16:41 |
| alexpilotti | any other votes or comments? | 16:42 |
| schwicht | I like # 3 best because it seems clean | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | gokrokve: ? | 16:42 |
| gokrokve | Number 2 looks like more general approach and might work not only for Hyper-V | 16:43 |
| gokrokve | While 1 and 3 looks like workarounds | 16:43 |
| russellb | ideally help and not just wait :-) | 16:43 |
| primeministerp | russellb: agreed | 16:44 |
| alexpilotti | russellb: hehe | 16:44 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: <cough> | 16:44 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:44 |
| primeministerp | moving on | 16:44 |
| alexpilotti | russellb: do you think it's feaible to get it done for Havana? | 16:44 |
| russellb | doesn't look like it, nobody is working on it yet | 16:45 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: <cough --^> | 16:45 |
| alexpilotti | russellb: that was my feeling as well ;-) | 16:45 |
| russellb | yep, just an idea so far | 16:45 |
| schwicht | primeministerp: I heard the first one - gesundheit | 16:45 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: ;) | 16:45 |
| alexpilotti | russellb: do you know of anybody else interested in this? | 16:46 |
| alexpilotti | russellb: we could set up a cross-driver team, to say so :-) | 16:46 |
| russellb | plenty of interest in the idea ... nobody saying they want to help write it | 16:46 |
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| russellb | ideally anyone interested in the affected systems ... so the VMware sub-team | 16:46 |
| gokrokve | We are looking for clstering support in OpenStack. | 16:46 |
| alexpilotti | russellb: ok, beside us and VMWare, nobody else? | 16:47 |
| alexpilotti | russellb: just to know to who I should reach out | 16:47 |
| russellb | openstack-dev list in general | 16:47 |
| gokrokve | Mirantis will join development. | 16:47 |
| russellb | some core nova folks that need to be involved in the architecture/design of it | 16:47 |
| alexpilotti | gokrokve: cool! | 16:47 |
| alexpilotti | russellb: I guess I'm going to bug dansmith as usual then :-D | 16:48 |
| russellb | those that seem most interested seem to be me, dansmith, and comstud | 16:48 |
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| alexpilotti | russellb: do you know the IRC nick of the VMWare-sub lead mantainer? | 16:48 |
| russellb | but probably mostly from an advisory capacity | 16:48 |
| dansmith | hartsocks, IIRC | 16:49 |
| russellb | hartsocks: <--- | 16:49 |
| alexpilotti | dansmith: tx guys | 16:49 |
| primeministerp | russellb: thanks | 16:49 |
| alexpilotti | maybe his around and can join us | 16:49 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: so additional issues to address? | 16:50 |
| alexpilotti | I'd love to see if the VMWare guys are around as we have a pretty good group online to talk about this briefly | 16:50 |
| alexpilotti | but it doesn't seem so | 16:50 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: I would reach out via the list | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: as a start | 16:51 |
| alexpilotti | cool | 16:51 |
| russellb | ping dan wendlant too | 16:51 |
| kirankv | VMware sub team meets tomorrow | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | kirankv: thdx | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | er thx | 16:51 |
| alexpilotti | kirankv: tx | 16:51 |
| schwicht | primeministerp: a common approach is best for the openstack consumers (like us) as well | 16:51 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: you wnated to introduce the vhdx subject? :-) | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | o | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | did i? | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | #topic vhdx | 16:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "vhdx (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:52 | |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: that work? | 16:52 |
| * primeministerp might be missing something | 16:52 | |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: actually i've forgotten was there something specific to vhdx we needed to discuss? | 16:52 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: it was just a follow up on your "thdx" typo :-) | 16:52 |
| primeministerp | haha | 16:53 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:53 |
| alexpilotti | which had a perfect timing | 16:53 |
| kirankv | Vmware subteam meeting time is 1700 UTC | 16:53 |
| alexpilotti | we are working on doing the V2 WMI api support | 16:53 |
| alexpilotti | that will unlock VHDX | 16:53 |
| alexpilotti | VHDX itself is a fairly easy feature | 16:53 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: H2 timeframe? | 16:53 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: sure | 16:53 |
| primeministerp | hehe | 16:53 |
| alexpilotti | ancutaly most blueprints depend on V2 | 16:54 |
| alexpilotti | *actually | 16:54 |
| alexpilotti | which means that we won't have new features on V1 | 16:54 |
| alexpilotti | aka 2008 R2 | 16:54 |
| alexpilotti | I just wanted to make this clear | 16:54 |
| alexpilotti | and hear if somebody has different ideas about it | 16:55 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: I think we've been clear about that for some time | 16:55 |
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| alexpilotti | cool | 16:55 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: the platform is 2012 | 16:55 |
| alexpilotti | cool | 16:55 |
| alexpilotti | should we move to the RDP console? | 16:55 |
| primeministerp | #topic RDP Console | 16:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RDP Console (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:56 | |
| alexpilotti | schwicht: are you guys planning to add graphical console support on top of Hyper-V? | 16:56 |
| schwicht | this is important to us lets say | 16:57 |
| alexpilotti | ok, I'm just interested to understand the extent of the interest | 16:57 |
| primeministerp | I would image it's important to anyone planning on using hyperv | 16:57 |
| alexpilotti | that was my point as well, until I met a lot of people who simpole didn't care :-) | 16:58 |
| schwicht | for the product consuming we try to get it into the release, but need to see if the code is solid | 16:58 |
| alexpilotti | anyway, from a technicalk standpont we are there | 16:58 |
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| alexpilotti | but it requires a bit of work to add a few simple nova changes | 16:59 |
| luis_fdez | alexpilotti, is it feasible for Havana? | 16:59 |
| alexpilotti | that will inpact of all Nova, not only the Hyper-V driver | 16:59 |
| alexpilotti | luis_fdez: technically for sure | 16:59 |
| alexpilotti | luis_fdez: all we need is a sigle rest API call | 16:59 |
| alexpilotti | luis_fdez: and rename any reference to VNC in Nova ;-) | 17:00 |
| luis_fdez | ok | 17:00 |
| alexpilotti | unless we want to add a "get_rdp_console" method | 17:00 |
| alexpilotti | which would add on top of get_vnc_console and get_spice_console | 17:00 |
| alexpilotti | the interface is getting crowded and IMO needs some cleanup | 17:01 |
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| schwicht | alexpilotti: primeministerp: we will follow up off line on the topic, need to check the latest | 17:01 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: ok | 17:01 |
| alexpilotti | schwicht: sure | 17:01 |
| primeministerp | guys we're out of time | 17:01 |
| primeministerp | let's end it and make note to pick up the rdp discussion next week | 17:01 |
| alexpilotti | schwicht: tx, let me know if you'd like to schedule a meetinmg for that | 17:01 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 21 17:01:59 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-05-21-16.01.html | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-05-21-16.01.txt | 17:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-05-21-16.01.log.html | 17:02 |
| gokrokve | Is there a method to understand which interface (RDP, VNC, SPICE) is available? | 17:02 |
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| alexpilotti | see you guys! | 17:02 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: #openstack-hyper-v | 17:02 |
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| hanrahat | primeministerp: joining our next call? | 17:03 |
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| *** dhellmann-away is now known as dhellmann | 17:59 | |
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| ayoung | Keystone! | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:01 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | o/ | 18:02 |
| ayoung | dolphm, want to get this party started? | 18:02 |
| spzala | Hi | 18:02 |
| dolphm | gyee: termie: o/ | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 21 18:02:43 2013 UTC. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| ayoung | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| gyee | \0 | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | #topic Havana milestone 1 | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana milestone 1 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| dolphm | Just a reminder that our first milestone is on May 30 | 18:03 |
| gyee | pluggable token provider! | 18:03 |
| ayoung | So only BP not impl is the loggin one | 18:03 |
| dolphm | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 18:03 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/unified-logging-in-keystone | 18:03 |
| ayoung | And it is up for review | 18:03 |
| dolphm | that's targetted at m1 ^ | 18:03 |
| dolphm | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/havana-1 | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | and it's our last m1 blueprint | 18:04 |
| ayoung | but it makes me sad, as it once again buries eventlet code deep in Keystone | 18:04 |
| dolphm | so we're certainly in good shape for conservative milestone goals | 18:04 |
| dolphm | ayoung: from openstack common? | 18:04 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yeah keystone/openstack/common/rpc/amqp.py uses weakref to store the context in a WeakLocal object. log.py also does this | 18:05 |
| dolphm | if there's any other blueprints that should be moved from m2 to m1 because they're VERY close to being ready, give me a heads up | 18:05 |
| dolphm | #topic No downtime database migrations | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "No downtime database migrations (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| dolphm | i've had this on the agenda for a while, but we haven't had time for it :) | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | there was a summit session on the topic: | 18:06 |
| dolphm | #link http://openstacksummitapril2013.sched.org/event/8d559940a2a905c8221ccaec19e91f28#.UZu3byuDQ19 | 18:06 |
| dolphm | and a subsequent discussion on the mailing list: | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | hey, missed first part but I just saw the unified logging stuff | 18:06 |
| dolphm | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-May/008340.html | 18:06 |
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| dolphm | i just wanted to make everyone aware (go participate in the mailing list discussion!) ^ | 18:06 |
| ayoung | dolphm, problem is that Keystone then needs to run with two different versions of the schema | 18:06 |
| dolphm | ayoung: exactly | 18:06 |
| dolphm | this isn't something we've ever tackled before in keystone | 18:07 |
| ayoung | dolphm, we've probably already broken it for Griz-Havana | 18:07 |
| bknudson | I don't think we've got any migrations in H yet. | 18:07 |
| dolphm | if other projects go down this road, we'll certainly need to follow; if anyone wants to champion the effort, please follow the progress in other projects and comment on migrations reviews accordingly :) | 18:08 |
| dolphm | ayoung: probably so; i see havana as a "let's try this out" cycle for keystone, at least | 18:08 |
| ayoung | dolphm, sounds good. I would say, though, that from Keystone, it would probably be better if we had a fallback | 18:08 |
| dolphm | it will take a testing infrastructure that we don't have today to make sure it works | 18:08 |
| ayoung | say, we can validate tokens, but no database updates allowed | 18:08 |
| dolphm | i assume someone is already working on that | 18:08 |
| ayoung | and then we can upgrade Keystone while in that mode | 18:08 |
| ayoung | If we cached the token revocation lists, we could put the server into a mode to just return those and the certificates | 18:09 |
| ayoung | Then we can update Keystone, and, while new tokens can't be issues, existing ones will still work. | 18:10 |
| dolphm | ayoung: all dependent on appropriate external testing though, and a stakeholder to champion it | 18:10 |
| dolphm | #topic open discussion | 18:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:10 | |
| dolphm | short agenda today! | 18:10 |
| bknudson | I've finally got the changes in to hopefully fix eventlet/dnspython problem : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29712/ | 18:11 |
| ayoung | dolphm, Jamie is going to try to work with the Kent folks to get the lazy provisioning ready for review | 18:11 |
| bknudson | and this other set of changes is to get unit tests working again: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29670/ | 18:11 |
| dolphm | ayoung: cool, there's still some identity-api related discussions there first though | 18:12 |
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| dolphm | there's two discrete api features that are required first, one needs to apply across the entire api and will need to be implemented accordingly (it can't just affect /users) | 18:12 |
| bknudson | did we decide which route we're going to take for LDAP domains? | 18:12 |
| gyee | what's the status on the read-only LDAP bp? | 18:13 |
| gyee | anyone working on that? | 18:13 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ^ ? it sounded like you were leaning towards merging my patch? can you provide an update? | 18:13 |
| dolphm | gyee: link? | 18:13 |
| gyee | didn't brad created one? | 18:13 |
| gyee | I wasn't sure | 18:13 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so, while I am leaning toward yours, I told spzala that he got once more chance to get his working. | 18:13 |
| dolphm | gyee: i don't see one | 18:13 |
| ayoung | the more I think about it, the more I think multiple domains in one ldap is a mistake | 18:13 |
| spzala | dolphM: about the default domain patch, I am working on it ... as ayoung just mentioned | 18:14 |
| ayoung | but I would hate to break it on the one person that decided to go that route | 18:14 |
| gyee | ayoung, LDAP is made for domains | 18:14 |
| ayoung | gyee, right | 18:14 |
| ayoung | gyee, and, I think that if we kept it that way, it makes the other code changes easier as well | 18:14 |
| ayoung | namely, split identity into its composite parts | 18:14 |
| spzala | dolphm: the approach I am taking now is that, we can't really ignore domain_id so set domain_id to default when it's ignore case | 18:15 |
| dolphm | spzala: ayoung: consider merging mine, and then applying some of spzala's work on top of it? i think there's value in both | 18:15 |
| dolphm | spzala: ayoung: have about a week left for 2013.1.2 i think | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, so if we merge yours, we will break domains in LDAP, right? | 18:15 |
| ayoung | I'm ok-ish with this, if you are. | 18:15 |
| dolphm | spzala: what do you mean "set domain_id" ? provide it to ldap? or provide it to the api? | 18:15 |
| dolphm | ayoung: multi-domain support goes away, yes | 18:16 |
| spzala | dolphm: provide it to ldap | 18:16 |
| ayoung | dolphm, the backend will have to fill in the domain_id with the default if it is an attribute ignore | 18:16 |
| spzala | so that domain_id is always there .... default or other | 18:16 |
| dolphm | spzala: if domain_id is ignored, then provide the default domain to ldap? that doesn't sound like it solves anything | 18:16 |
| spzala | ayoung: agree | 18:16 |
| dolphm | spzala: that's also the exact opposite behavior that i expect from the ignore_attribute lists | 18:17 |
| spzala | dolphm: we can't ignore the domain_id | 18:17 |
| spzala | dolphm: in a way it makes sense that | 18:17 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I think we can choose to merge your patch at any point. So, if spzala doesn't get it working, yours gets approved by default | 18:17 |
| dolphm | spzala: define "ignore"? | 18:17 |
| spzala | we always have a default domain | 18:17 |
| dolphm | spzala: my patch validates the domain_id, and then avoids providing it to the ldap server | 18:17 |
| bknudson | I think we want it to work so that if domain_id is ignored then any objects returned by Keystone have domain_id set to the default domain. | 18:17 |
| dolphm | bknudson: +1 | 18:18 |
| ayoung | dolphm, but even if he does get it working, doesn't mean we have to take it...it just makes it a deliberate decision as opposed to a forced one | 18:18 |
| dolphm | and if domain_id is ignored, the ldap server should be treated as domain-agnostic | 18:18 |
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| spzala | dolphm: agree.. ignore is 'ignore' but since we have at least have a 'default' domain so was thinking to pass it to the server. | 18:20 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so, lets give him a day or two to get it working, and agree that a reviewed patch has to be accepted in time to meet the 2013.1.2 deadline | 18:20 |
| ayoung | otherwise, we go with you patch | 18:20 |
| ayoung | your | 18:21 |
| bknudson | spzala: pass the default domain ID to the LDAP server? what's the LDAP server going to do with it since there's no attribute for domain_id. | 18:21 |
| spzala | ayoung: thanks :) .. dolphm: hopefully i will update the patch today ..if it works out | 18:21 |
| spzala | bknudson: so by passing, to me, don't "stip off" the domain_id | 18:21 |
| spzala | I see that, that's what we do with ignore | 18:22 |
| bknudson | spzala: the LDAP entries have a domain_id attribute? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yes they do | 18:23 |
| spzala | bknudson: yes if I am not wrong | 18:23 |
| ayoung | #link https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/identity/backends/ldap/core.py#L389 | 18:24 |
| ayoung | There too https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/identity/backends/ldap/core.py#L845 | 18:24 |
| bknudson | ayoung: that's the case when domain_id isn't ignored. | 18:24 |
| bknudson | but what about when domain_id is in the ATTRIBUTE_IGNORE list? | 18:25 |
| ayoung | dolphm, are you OK with this approach, or would you prefer that we just go with your patch? | 18:25 |
| dolphm | (wrong channel) | 18:25 |
| dolphm | ayoung: spzala: for what it's worth, jcannava tested both patches as of about a week ago in a deployment against read-only AD; both worked fine | 18:25 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i don't think you can just ignore either patch, both have value at this point for stable | 18:26 |
| ayoung | dolphm, um...but I am guesing he had an attribute that he could use for the domain_id | 18:26 |
| dolphm | what we want in havana can be a another conversation | 18:26 |
| ayoung | dolphm, what is it from your patch that would be pulled into spzala's? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | I am OK with saying "remove multi-domain" as there is a chance it will affect 0 users | 18:27 |
| dolphm | ayoung: validation that a valid domain was specified by the api; including a valid domain_id in all relevant responses back to the api | 18:28 |
| dolphm | ayoung: the way i see it, my patch fixes the read-only issue by removing multi-domain support; spzala's patch on top of that could restore multi-domain, and maybe they could be backported together | 18:29 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, OK...that is a strategy. spzala can you rework your patch such that it applies on top of dolphm's and then we only have to decide "dolph's only" or "both" | 18:30 |
| ayoung | dolphm, lets #action that | 18:30 |
| spzala | ayoung: sure, that's a good idea. | 18:30 |
| dolphm | #action spzala to rework patch such that it applies on top of dolphm's | 18:30 |
| ayoung | dolphm, we can accept your patch at any point, I think | 18:31 |
| ayoung | any reason to hold off? | 18:31 |
| dolphm | not for master | 18:31 |
| dolphm | i don't think? | 18:31 |
| ayoung | actually, it might make sense to get it in soon | 18:31 |
| ayoung | then , if anyone is tracking master, we find out if we broken them.... | 18:31 |
| ayoung | tracking master and doing multi domain ldap | 18:31 |
| dolphm | which is definitely no one, but yes :) | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, I +2ed. Feel free to approve if you are comfortable with it | 18:32 |
| ayoung | dolphm, OK, so..I thin that leads into split identity | 18:33 |
| dolphm | i think it does | 18:33 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I posted to the mailing list, and am getting positive feedback. Are you OK with the general thrust of it? | 18:33 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yeah; at the summit i was just worried the implementation was going to be very difficult, but it sounds like we're making lots of small rational steps in that direction | 18:34 |
| ayoung | LDAP and potentiall PAM can "plug in" to fill a domain. My guiess is that domains, and projects would mainly be handled by SQL | 18:34 |
| ayoung | so multi domain support across 2 or more LDAP servers should be do-able, and in a rational manner | 18:35 |
| dolphm | is the consensus that projects should be in not-ldap? | 18:35 |
| ayoung | dchadwick suggested that we further split project into projects and assignments | 18:35 |
| dolphm | (that's always made sense to me, but i'm not an ldap stakeholder) | 18:36 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I think that some people might keep them there for the short term | 18:36 |
| ayoung | but I would say that most people would prefer to not have them in LDAP | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | so for a given domain, we could say that Identity is in LDAP, but proejcts and assignments are in sql or | 18:36 |
| ayoung | all three are in LDAP | 18:36 |
| ayoung | as they are today | 18:36 |
| bknudson | Identity is users and groups? | 18:37 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yes | 18:37 |
| ayoung | projects is Projects and roles | 18:37 |
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| bknudson | that sure maps to ldap | 18:37 |
| ayoung | assignments is the mapping between them | 18:37 |
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| bknudson | assignments is which users are in which groups? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | bknudson, no | 18:38 |
| bknudson | because ldap groups are lists of users (by DN) | 18:38 |
| ayoung | bknudson, more like which users and/or groups are assigned to which roles | 18:38 |
| brich | ayoung: Does "split" imply APIs, services and configuration needed for said split? | 18:39 |
| bknudson | ok | 18:39 |
| ayoung | brich, web API stays the same | 18:39 |
| ayoung | brich, only the backend splits | 18:39 |
| ayoung | there might be some ugliness with the unique identifiers, but I think the current scheme can handle it, so there should be no change from a client perspective | 18:40 |
| brich | ayoung: but under the official API, we could have remotable services? My impression is that is where Chadwick's thought would go | 18:40 |
| ayoung | brich, that would be a step beyond this. | 18:40 |
| ayoung | but this work is necessary to implement his, I think | 18:41 |
| brich | ayoung: agree. just wondered how far you were thinking to go in Havana | 18:41 |
| ayoung | dolphm, ok to #action that I update the BP to reflect this? Are we agreed this is the right general direction? | 18:42 |
| bknudson | ayoung: Looking at dolphm's patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28197/10/keystone/identity/backends/ldap/core.py , removes the DomainApi from LDAP... so spzala's is just going to re-add it back in? | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, if it is approved, yes, | 18:43 |
| spzala | bknudson: I guess so, i think we need that for multi-domain support | 18:43 |
| ayoung | spzala, how important is it to your group? | 18:44 |
| dolphm | ayoung: which bp? | 18:44 |
| spzala | ayoung: multi domain support? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | dolphm, first off, split identity, but also the domain subbp | 18:44 |
| dolphm | ayoung: this all sounds like multiple blueprints, btw | 18:44 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/split-identity | 18:44 |
| spzala | ayoung: read only domain is more important as far as I know | 18:44 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/extract-projects-from-id | 18:45 |
| dolphm | ayoung: there's seperate blueprints to split credentials and domains | 18:45 |
| dolphm | (i seriously can't spell separate correctly from muscle memory) | 18:45 |
| gyee | :) | 18:45 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/auth-domain-architecture | 18:45 |
| ayoung | dolphm, neither can I | 18:45 |
| gyee | I don't speak english so I generally get a pass on spelling | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | OK, one last thing...the whole index/token revocation mess | 18:47 |
| ayoung | termie's point is that the serving of the revocation list should not require iterating over a list.... | 18:47 |
| dolphm | spzala: marked this as obsolete; let me know if that's innaccurate https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/ldap-fake-domain | 18:47 |
| ayoung | so he's blocked two patches which fix bugs. One is a fix to the token backendm, and the other indexes the sql backend | 18:48 |
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| spzala | dolphm: it goes with the current patch on static domain | 18:48 |
| ayoung | I think he has a point...so... | 18:48 |
| bknudson | how are we going to generate a list without iterating over a list? | 18:49 |
| ayoung | what if we held the revocation list in memcached, lazy constructed, and return it as a single document? When a revocation event comes in, we rebuild it. | 18:49 |
| bknudson | maybe the problem is too many tokens | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: that isn't a bad idea. | 18:50 |
| bknudson | the servers are constantly requesting the revocation list, so lazy constructing doesn't make any difference | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, nah, that would only happen once | 18:50 |
| ayoung | at start up time | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: the revocation events are infrequent enough that it shouldn't be too bad…unless revoke_tokens_for group / user is called with enough tokens to exceed a memcache page (the proposed fix doesn't handle that in either case) | 18:50 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, exactly | 18:51 |
| bknudson | revocation events are infrequent, but the other servers are constantly asking for it. | 18:51 |
| gyee | ayoung, we do delta revocation list or one big list? | 18:51 |
| ayoung | gyee, one big | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: currently one big list | 18:51 |
| gyee | doh! | 18:51 |
| bknudson | gyee: but they do eventually timeout | 18:51 |
| bknudson | when the token expires, don't need it in the list anymore | 18:51 |
| gyee | wait, timeout and revocation are two different thing right? | 18:52 |
| ayoung | gyee, right | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | it does a memcache append() vs building it when a revocation occurs. but the current mechanism for evicting expired tokens from the list (vs. active that are revoked) is to wait for the page to expire…which it might not | 18:52 |
| gyee | so in theory, revocation list should be smaller | 18:52 |
| bknudson | revocation is when you change roles and your old tokens go away | 18:52 |
| soren | Is Keystone doing cryptographically signed tokens these days? | 18:52 |
| bknudson | existing tokens are now invalid | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | gyee, a revoked token that has expired token no longer needs to be reported as revoked | 18:52 |
| ayoung | soren, yes | 18:53 |
| gyee | ayoung, right | 18:53 |
| dolphm | soren: yes, by default in havana | 18:53 |
| soren | Cool. | 18:53 |
| bknudson | soren: it's the PKI tokens. There's also UUID tokens. | 18:53 |
| dolphm | soren: err, grizzly | 18:53 |
| soren | Oh. Sorry. /me realises this is a meeting and not just #openstack-dev or whatnot | 18:53 |
| soren | Carry on :) | 18:53 |
| ayoung | soren, signed, but not encrypted | 18:53 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, OK, I'll writ that up. Are you up for implementing it? | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | sure | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | it wont be hard to do. | 18:54 |
| bknudson | is this only for the memcache backend for tokens? | 18:54 |
| ayoung | #action ayoung writes up revocation list out of memcache | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: for now, since it is most directly affected. | 18:55 |
| ayoung | #action morganfainberg implements memcached revocation list | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | SQL is more efficient at telling revoked vs. expired | 18:55 |
| bknudson | are we splitting up the token backend? | 18:55 |
| ayoung | bknudson, looks like it | 18:55 |
| bknudson | the sql today is not efficient | 18:55 |
| gyee | ayoung, bknudson, not sure if I understand termie's commend on the review | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | i can work on SQL as well. | 18:55 |
| ayoung | bknudson, it will be a cache | 18:55 |
| gyee | so he wants a clock impl? | 18:55 |
| ayoung | gyee, clock is not going to happen, as elegant as it is | 18:55 |
| ayoung | we would need a clock per user/project | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: the clock impl is good, just the problem is it changes the business rules in a way that would be bad. | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | since revoking all tokens for a user on an event is bad | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | (short of a password change) | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | so, elegant, but needs more than the simple concept. | 18:56 |
| gyee | yeah, seem like a small bang for big buck | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: i'll take a gander at the SQL implementation as well and see if I can come up with something while I'm mucking around in the memcache driver here. | 18:57 |
| gyee | you think that bad, wait till henry's inherit role impl :) | 18:57 |
| bknudson | we already have a couple of things for the sql backend | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: ah, ok, so i shouldn't worry about the revocation stuff in it? | 18:58 |
| bknudson | the most obvious one is to add the index to expires and revoked | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | (sorry realized the meeting was going on and hopped over to this window a little late) | 18:59 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/cache-token-revocations | 18:59 |
| dolphm | time to switch to -dev | 18:59 |
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| dolphm | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 21 18:59:16 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-05-21-18.02.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-05-21-18.02.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-05-21-18.02.log.html | 18:59 |
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| jeblair | ci/infra? | 19:00 |
| fungi | infra team assemble! | 19:00 |
| annegentle | form of:legos! | 19:00 |
| * fungi appreciates annegentle's wonder twins reference | 19:01 | |
| annegentle | though I think I'm off by a factor of assembly... more like water or fire or plastic I suppose. | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 21 19:02:04 2013 UTC. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| reed | you're all revealing your age with silly references to sillier cartoons | 19:02 |
| fungi | reed: yes, i'll be 6 years old for the rest of my life probably | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:03 |
| jeblair | agenda ^ | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #topic actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| jeblair | there are no actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-05-14-19.02.html | 19:03 |
| jeblair | fungi: is there anything to talk about re jenkins slave os? | 19:04 |
| fungi | jeblair: should probably talk about taking it off the agenda so you don't ask again next week ;) | 19:04 |
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| fungi | i'll take care of that | 19:04 |
| jeblair | fungi: done | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #topic testr in project progress | 19:04 |
| jeblair | clarkb: ? | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testr in project progress (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| reed | I vote to abolish passwords from websites, there has to be a better way to authenticate | 19:05 |
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| clarkb | hi | 19:05 |
| clarkb | ceilometer has been testr'd according to lp | 19:05 |
| clarkb | jgriffith plans to try and get cinder testr'd during H-2 | 19:05 |
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| clarkb | still need to convince the keystone folks that this is worth doing. I think swift will be on board if I poke them. | 19:07 |
| clarkb | glance is going to be the fun one because their test suite is interesting | 19:07 |
| clarkb | things are moving, just slowly | 19:07 |
| jeblair | is there a particular strong objection from keystone, or just no one willing to pitch in? | 19:08 |
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| clarkb | it seemed to more a matter of motivating effort and not a technical objection | 19:09 |
| dolphm | for testr support? no objections here | 19:09 |
| clarkb | yeah it was called busy work at one point. But I don't think anyone is against testr itself | 19:09 |
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| dolphm | keystoneclient is already done | 19:10 |
| jeblair | okay, we'll just need to promise everlasting fame and glory to whoever does keystone | 19:11 |
| *** radez is now known as radez_g0n3 | 19:12 | |
| zaro | o/ | 19:12 |
| jeblair | i think the bug calendar agenda item is stale, so i'm converting it to a reminder: | 19:12 |
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| jeblair | Next bug day: June 4, 2013 at 1700UTC | 19:12 |
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| jeblair | #topic Publishing of old documentation now that diablo and essex are EOL. | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Publishing of old documentation now that diablo and essex are EOL. (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
| jeblair | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/972724 | 19:12 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 972724 in openstack-ci "Dev docs sites for past releases of nova (2011.1) now 404 error" [Medium,Triaged] | 19:12 |
| jeblair | i think we needed input from annegentle on that | 19:12 |
| annegentle | there's one for swift too | 19:13 |
| jeblair | clarkb: do you want to speak? | 19:13 |
| annegentle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1025099 | 19:13 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1025099 in openstack-org "Redirects needed for swift 1.4.3, 1.4.4, 1.4.5, etc doc builds" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 19:13 |
| annegentle | I marked it won't fix | 19:14 |
| clarkb | oh yes | 19:14 |
| clarkb | annegentle: so you are happy letting those die on the vine? | 19:14 |
| clarkb | annegentle: anything folsom or greater will have the correct files in place. its just a matter of linking to them where you want | 19:15 |
| annegentle | clarkb: that sounds like a great idea | 19:15 |
| annegentle | clarkb: so there's still a task to link to the "correct" versions? | 19:15 |
| annegentle | clarkb: but it's folsom and up | 19:15 |
| clarkb | annegentle: that depends. We are copying them to specific places | 19:15 |
| clarkb | annegentle: it will be under the project/tag_name dir for that project | 19:16 |
| annegentle | clarkb: oh, ok | 19:16 |
| clarkb | annegentle: I don't think we are currently automagically editing links within the aggregator sections of the docs | 19:16 |
| annegentle | clarkb: that sounds like a marvelous solution, is it just a matter of assigning someone to edit? | 19:16 |
| annegentle | clarkb: automagic is even better | 19:16 |
| clarkb | My worry with automagic is I am not sure how friendly docbook will be to that | 19:17 |
| clarkb | yes, if you want to link to things today you can just do so by hand | 19:17 |
| annegentle | clarkb: these aren't docbook, theyre sphinx sites | 19:17 |
| clarkb | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/python-novaclient/2.9.0/ for example | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | and http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/2013.1/ | 19:18 |
| annegentle | clarkb: but tell me why it matters? | 19:18 |
| clarkb | annegentle: because making a thing to automagically add links when nova et al tag a release is something new that would need to be written | 19:19 |
| clarkb | we don't currently have anything like that today | 19:19 |
| clarkb | and it would probably propose a change rather than merge it automatically so the human element remains | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: where would you add links? | 19:20 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: the links existed in the sidebars of the nova and swift sphinx sites | 19:20 |
| annegentle | jeblair: with the new templating for nova for example, the links aren't there | 19:21 |
| clarkb | oh I was thinking the links would be at http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ or similar | 19:21 |
| annegentle | clarkb: we manually maintain http://docs.openstack.org/developer/openstack-projects.html | 19:21 |
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| annegentle | for example, jeblair, cinder uses the "old" template at http://docs.openstack.org/developer/cinder/ | 19:22 |
| clarkb | annegentle: the problem with putting links internal to nova itself is that if you compile those sphinx docs without having the old stuff you will get broken links | 19:22 |
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| annegentle | clarkb: yeah I'm fine with removing the links then | 19:23 |
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| clarkb | annegentle: does that mean we need to go and clean some of the sphinx docs up? is that something the doc team would do? | 19:24 |
| annegentle | clarkb: honestly we don't have the time/resources for sphinx docs | 19:24 |
| annegentle | clarkb: I see a new doc bug for cinder to not link to "versioned" sites that are broken | 19:24 |
| annegentle | clarkb: so I guess just log bugs? | 19:25 |
| clarkb | in that case probably best file bugs against the projects themselves | 19:25 |
| annegentle | clarkb: and indicate the tagging mechanism? | 19:25 |
| clarkb | annegentle: yup | 19:25 |
| annegentle | clarkb: makes sense to me | 19:25 |
| dprince | clarkb: log question for you. What is the best way to handle the logs for this jenkins job: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29978/ | 19:25 |
| jeblair | dprince: this is the meeting channel. :) | 19:26 |
| dprince | jeblair: thanks! | 19:26 |
| jeblair | clarkb: any other questions about old docs? | 19:27 |
| clarkb | jeblair: nope I think that covers it | 19:27 |
| jeblair | clarkb: clouddocs-maven-plugin internalization? do we need to talk about that, or is that now an off-line task? | 19:27 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I think that is now an offline task | 19:28 |
| annegentle | jeblair: I really really really want forward motion on that though. | 19:28 |
| annegentle | where's it at? Waiting on dwcramer? | 19:28 |
| clarkb | annegentle: I started looking at it last week. zaro and I discussed the jenkins jobs | 19:28 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i agree, i only meant "is clarkb working on that". :) | 19:28 |
| annegentle | ah ok | 19:28 |
| clarkb | annegentle: the biggest thing right now is having working jenkins jobs to do releases to maven | 19:28 |
| clarkb | once we have that we can do the switch without impacting your release process | 19:29 |
| annegentle | oh ok I wasn't sure what the next steps were after the summit, I'm behind :) | 19:29 |
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| annegentle | clarkb: NICE in all caps for sure then. | 19:29 |
| zaro | i entered bug on that: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1182154 | 19:29 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1182154 in openstack-ci "Automatic deploy to jenkins-ci.org repository" [Undecided,New] | 19:29 |
| jeblair | lets rearrange the agendo to continue talking about annegentle's topics: | 19:30 |
| jeblair | #topic OpenStack Operations Guide - tooling, licensing, publishing discussion | 19:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Operations Guide - tooling, licensing, publishing discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:30 | |
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| annegentle | ok thanks jeblair | 19:30 |
| annegentle | do you want an overview? | 19:30 |
| jeblair | annegentle: would love one | 19:30 |
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| annegentle | ok, here goes | 19:30 |
| dwcramer | I'll sync up with you guys on the clouddocs-maven-plugin soon. | 19:30 |
| clarkb | dwcramer: awesome | 19:30 |
| dwcramer | I learned a bit more about how Maven works. | 19:30 |
| dwcramer | That I didn't know at the summit. | 19:31 |
| annegentle | At the Summit, I got to talk to O'Reilly community manager and a strategic accounts manager. | 19:31 |
| annegentle | They mentioned that they've had difficulty getting an author to finish an OpenStack book | 19:31 |
| annegentle | I had heard this previously from an O'Reilly editor. | 19:31 |
| annegentle | Since we have a "completed" book more or less, they wanted to know if the Foundation wanted pro-editing on it and more publishing channels and epub-ish outputs. | 19:32 |
| annegentle | Currently we have non-pro editing, a Lulu publishing channel, and no epub-like output that is automated. | 19:32 |
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| annegentle | so we started the conversation and asked for a few meetings and a proposal for a contract with O'Reilly between them and the Foundation | 19:33 |
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| annegentle | the O'Reilly workflow involves a tool called Atlas. Authors collaborate in a github repo using docbook or asciidoc with a web front editor, O'Reilly editors interact with the content and authors online. | 19:34 |
| annegentle | O'Reilly uses Github to gather public feedback about Atlas | 19:34 |
| annegentle | #link https://github.com/MakerPress/atlas-public-feedback/issues?labels=&page=3&state=open | 19:34 |
| annegentle | but as far as I can tell, Atlas is not open sourced | 19:35 |
| annegentle | since it's git backed, my (likely mistaken) hope was that we could use the same repo to publish through our current Gerrit/Jenkins process and to O'Reilly's channels. | 19:35 |
| annegentle | however we're very early in the days of exploration and learning | 19:36 |
| annegentle | the latest today is that Mark Collier at the Foundation has a copy of O'Reillys proposal and is reviewing it | 19:36 |
| annegentle | I'm not sure it's quite what we had in mind but we're going to discuss. | 19:36 |
| annegentle | whew. | 19:36 |
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| annegentle | I'd like to connect team CI to O'Reilly technical contacts. | 19:37 |
| annegentle | Since I have questions from one perspective, but you're going to have questions from another. | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | annegentle: that sounds like a great idea. i'd be happy to talk to them | 19:37 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i'm really curious about the contract with the foundation... | 19:38 |
| annegentle | The other part is that the authors have to agree to do this, so far all six of them are onboard, for finding out more details. | 19:38 |
| annegentle | All of this is not a done deal at all. I know you all know this but emphasizing for anyone reading the logs. | 19:38 |
| jeblair | a contract around marketing, trademarks, etc makes sense | 19:38 |
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| jeblair | if the contract involves tooling, that seems weird. and i don't see how there could/should be a need for a contract regarding rights to the content itself | 19:39 |
| annegentle | Another consideration is translation for this particular book. | 19:39 |
| jeblair | since it's CC-by licensed | 19:39 |
| annegentle | we have a Chinese and Japanese version already | 19:39 |
| annegentle | jeblair: yeah the contract I saw today isn't what I expected in terms of keeping CC-By. | 19:39 |
| annegentle | jeblair: so we have a ways to go | 19:39 |
| annegentle | jeblair: does it make sense to loop you in to the contract info with Mark Collier? | 19:40 |
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| jeblair | so with the caveat that we're sill exploring and learning about this, i'll just say some general thoughts based on what i've heard so far | 19:40 |
| annegentle | jeblair: or not yet? I don't want to waste your time either. | 19:40 |
| annegentle | jeblair: sure, want to hear more thoughts | 19:40 |
| jeblair | i don't know anything at all about their tool and how it works, which is about as far from open as you can get | 19:41 |
| * mordred also wants to talk with them | 19:41 | |
| jeblair | and open is one of our core community values | 19:41 |
| * mordred is lurking over phone tethering waiting for plane to take off | 19:41 | |
| jeblair | i understand that the git workflow isn't always great for documentors, but i'm really concerned about whether their tool is a right fit for our project | 19:42 |
| annegentle | mordred: thanks for that | 19:43 |
| jeblair | then there's the technical issue, about whether it would work with anything else we're doing at all. | 19:43 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: so for the use case of accessing an established publishing brand, I don't know how you'd accomplish that with a completely open source tool | 19:44 |
| mordred | annegentle: I reject that premise | 19:44 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i don't know what that means. :( | 19:44 |
| annegentle | jeblair: it's like the training/certification tooling, will we be able to have all-open for that? | 19:44 |
| mordred | annegentle: yes | 19:44 |
| annegentle | mordred: fair 'nough :) | 19:44 |
| mordred | annegentle: o'reilly has made MILLIONS on open source | 19:44 |
| * ttx waves | 19:44 | |
| annegentle | hey ttx | 19:45 |
| mordred | I believe it's not too much to ask for tools to interact with them to be open | 19:45 |
| mordred | or else I'm going to have to call Tim out as a hypocrite | 19:45 |
| annegentle | mordred: I certainly have made that request. I'm just saying, what if it's not possible. | 19:45 |
| mordred | if it's not possible, then I think we'll need to have a very deep though about what's important to us | 19:45 |
| mordred | because if all we want is world domination and we don't also want openness | 19:45 |
| mordred | that's one path forward | 19:45 |
| annegentle | we use open source fonts, we are open source as far as we can for the use case of publishing documentation. For publishing books, do you need to have Lulu's source for their ecommerce site? | 19:45 |
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| annegentle | is it possible that certain use cases don't lend themselves to all-open, that's all I'm asking here. | 19:46 |
| mordred | I'm not passing judgement on any specific case | 19:46 |
| mordred | I'm saying that so far al of our tools are open | 19:46 |
| mordred | and it's an important community value | 19:46 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i don't think the contribution workflow for our documentation should be proprietary | 19:46 |
| mordred | so if we're going to undercut that, I want us to fully understand the ramifications of that | 19:47 |
| mordred | and I _personally_ do not believe there is any valid reason why we should need a non-free tool | 19:47 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i think anyone should be free to publish our documentation using whatever systems they want. but i don't think we should start embracing propretary access to contributing. | 19:47 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:47 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:47 |
| annegentle | jeblair: ah, okay, that helps me understand | 19:47 |
| fungi | well said | 19:48 |
| annegentle | jeblair: I don't really want to stop contributors from using our current workflow either. | 19:48 |
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| mordred | right. | 19:48 |
| jeblair | annegentle: yeah, i like to think that being able to contribute to docs in the same way as the rest of the project is a worthwhile system. | 19:48 |
| mordred | which means that we'll need to have some deep conversations with oreilly about things | 19:49 |
| mordred | because our workflow is likely different than what they're planning for | 19:49 |
| annegentle | so to me, when I look at it, I get git-backing. But yesterday you pointed out that OpenStack source is not technically housed on github. | 19:49 |
| mordred | if their system is _a_ way to get at things, then I'm less opposed to it | 19:49 |
| mordred | annegentle: that is correct | 19:49 |
| annegentle | So I saw Atlas as a second view into the source. | 19:49 |
| mordred | if it is a second view, I will have many less objections | 19:49 |
| mordred | however, oreilly is going to have to grok how our system works | 19:50 |
| mordred | because so far most of the 3rd party folks who have tried ot "integrate" with us | 19:50 |
| mordred | don't seem to understand that we don't use github | 19:50 |
| annegentle | mordred: ok, good -- I think we have the same core value, but I had a bit of a bridge to build from github to openstack that I didn't have conceptually yet. | 19:50 |
| mordred | yah | 19:50 |
| mordred | it's definitely a conceptual bridge | 19:50 |
| fungi | annegentle: if it just consumes our git history and displays it, that's one thing... but if they have editors working on t we'll want a feedback loop of some kind | 19:50 |
| clarkb | yeah this is similar to the transifex issue | 19:50 |
| mordred | right. which means figuring out how that interacts with a review pipeline | 19:50 |
| annegentle | I think I have it conceptually now, but we still need a technical bridge. Are you all willing to explore the technical framework a bit? I can really use the help. | 19:50 |
| mordred | absolutely | 19:51 |
| jeblair | yep | 19:51 |
| clarkb | we are basically forcing everything to be unidirectional for sanity | 19:51 |
| mordred | although - it would be easier for us to have that discussion with them if their tool wasn't proprietary junk :) | 19:51 |
| annegentle | clarkb: ooo that's a good one too, Transifex as a second source. | 19:51 |
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| annegentle | mordred: I honestly didn't get the vibe that it would never be open source, more like "we're a tad bit disorganized to actually show everyone the source" | 19:52 |
| jeblair | annegentle: maybe we can help motivate them. :) | 19:52 |
| clarkb | annegentle: not anymore. transifex is now the only source | 19:52 |
| fungi | if they wait until it | 19:52 |
| clarkb | if you consider automagic process | 19:52 |
| annegentle | Ok, so I think the agreement is to connect the ci team to O'Reilly technical contact(s) (I'm pretty sure I have at least one). How should I do that? Email? | 19:52 |
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| clarkb | you can still propose a fix to things by hand | 19:52 |
| fungi | if they wait until it's bug-free to release, they'll be the only bug-free open source project in history i think | 19:53 |
| mordred | annegentle: email is probably a great intro - I'm guessing it'll take a phone call too, since there is a LOT of ground to cover | 19:53 |
| jeblair | annegentle: my guess is email to set up a phone call | 19:53 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: yeah ok | 19:53 |
| mordred | I'd be happy to provide a conference bridge for that purpose | 19:53 |
| annegentle | mordred: ok I have one too. | 19:53 |
| mordred | awesome | 19:53 |
| annegentle | Ok, thanks for exploring... the crazy world of dead trees and ISBNs. | 19:53 |
| annegentle | sorry to take up so much tim | 19:54 |
| annegentle | time | 19:54 |
| jeblair | annegentle: thanks for chatting with us here about this; i think it's important | 19:54 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:54 |
| jeblair | there's a few minutes left to talk about remote participation.... | 19:54 |
| jeblair | #topic What can infra do to enable remote participation at the next Design Summit? | 19:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "What can infra do to enable remote participation at the next Design Summit? (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:54 | |
| jeblair | reed: around? | 19:54 |
| fungi | i have academic/technology librarian friends who are big into free/open publication. i can solicit some suggestions there too | 19:54 |
| annegentle | fungi: cool | 19:54 |
| jeblair | #topic open discussion | 19:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:56 | |
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| annegentle | I could swear I had something for open discussion but it has slipped my mind. | 19:57 |
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| annegentle | Ahwell. | 19:57 |
| mordred | jeblair: just was chatting with zul about pymox | 19:57 |
| mordred | jeblair: apparently there is a python3 compat fork of it | 19:57 |
| mordred | jeblair: but the upstream will not take the patch | 19:57 |
| mordred | sigh | 19:57 |
| jeblair | (!) | 19:57 |
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| mordred | this brought up the idea of making a pymox3 fork, hosting it ourselves and publishing to pypi ourselves | 19:57 |
| jeblair | mordred: fork all the things | 19:57 |
| mordred | yeah | 19:58 |
| mordred | I mean | 19:58 |
| mordred | not my first choice, but also, jeez | 19:58 |
| mordred | so, zul was going to look at adding it as a stackforge project, but I was thinking it might should be an openstack-dev/pymox3 instead? | 19:58 |
| clarkb | mordred: any response from holger? | 19:58 |
| mordred | thoughts? | 19:58 |
| jeblair | annegentle: did you want volunteers to convert all the manuals to TeX? | 19:58 |
| fungi | perhaps this python 3 support craze is just a passing fad? | 19:58 |
| annegentle | jeblair: LOL | 19:58 |
| mordred | clarkb: yes. he and I are going to have a phone call the next couple of days | 19:58 |
| clarkb | mordred: ! yay | 19:59 |
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| mordred | zul is putting in a lot of effort to python3-ify our stuff, and I'd like to be supportive of that | 19:59 |
| jeblair | mordred: openstack-dev seems right | 19:59 |
| clarkb | mordred: I am more than happy to be the hg guinea pig if that helps | 19:59 |
| mordred | jeblair: kk | 19:59 |
| mordred | clarkb: I will get confirmation from him on acceptability of the idea, and then point you at it if he says ok | 19:59 |
| fungi | i am honestly thrilled to see more attention paid to python 3 support | 19:59 |
| mordred | zul: ^^ openstack-dev/pymox3 | 19:59 |
| jeblair | and on that bombshell | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 21 20:00:08 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-05-21-19.02.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-05-21-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-05-21-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
| jeblair | ugh we have to reset the channel topics sometime | 20:00 |
| jeblair | they got messed up in the netsplit | 20:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 20:00 |
| markmc | yo | 20:00 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I think you can through the meetbot admin interface | 20:00 |
| ttx | russellb, shardy, jd__, dolphm, annegentle, mikal, mordred, notmyname, markwash, jgriffith, vishy, gabrielhurley, markmcclain: around ? | 20:00 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:00 |
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| dolphm | o/ | 20:00 |
| jd__ | o/ | 20:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:00 |
| notmyname | here | 20:00 |
| markwash | o/ | 20:00 |
| mikal | Hi | 20:00 |
| mordred | ttx: I will not be able to be at the meeting, I've asked jeblair to proxy for me | 20:01 |
| ttx | yay, quorum | 20:01 |
| ttx | mordred: noted | 20:01 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jeblair | 20:01 | |
| * devananda lurks | 20:01 | |
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| *** jeblair changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 20:01 | |
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| hub_cap | heh devananda me2 | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 21 20:01:40 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | A couple discussion topics on the agenda today | 20:01 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| jgriffith | \o | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Common API version discovery mechanism | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Common API version discovery mechanism (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | We said in a past meeting that we would track progress on this | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/api-version-discovery-proposal | 20:02 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: care to give a quick update ? | 20:02 |
| gabrielhurley | Where it stands currently is that the versioning stuff is pretty much settled. I'd hoped to get some consensus around "capability" discovery too, but that's been a trickier issue, so I think progressing on version discovery independently is the thing to do for now. | 20:03 |
| markmc | yay baby steps | 20:03 |
| *** radez is now known as radez_g0n3 | 20:04 | |
| gabrielhurley | Next step is to put together an API sample/spec that everyone can agree on for what the response to a version discovery request should look like. | 20:04 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: do you think you need anything formal from the TC, or you're happy to go ahead summarizing the road ahead on openstack-dev and jfdi ? | 20:04 |
| ttx | ok | 20:04 |
| gabrielhurley | yep, I'll continue to drive from the dev list side currently, but it's always good to know the TC supports it | 20:04 |
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| ttx | questions on that ? | 20:05 |
| notmyname | gabrielhurley: I have yet to see any response to the concerns raised by the swift team on some of the version discovery (although that shouldn't derail the larger questions) | 20:05 |
| gabrielhurley | which concern was that? | 20:05 |
| notmyname | the specific on is that /version/capabilities won't work for swift | 20:05 |
| notmyname | it was on the etherpad (since deleted) and also on the mailing list thread | 20:06 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:06 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: how do we approach backwards compatibility with existing 300 multiple choice responses? last i checked, there were some discrepancies on the implementation between projects | 20:06 |
| gabrielhurley | gotcha. I think I misunderstood that point. can you ping me separately about that so I can follow up? | 20:06 |
| gabrielhurley | as I said though, capabilities is gonna have to be a separate issure | 20:06 |
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| gabrielhurley | dolphm: good question, and we may just have to have workarounds in the clients to deal with the "legacy" responses. | 20:07 |
| notmyname | on the api versioning side, is there any concern that an existing app at host/v1 is now raising it's scope to respond to /? | 20:07 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: what about legacy clients? | 20:07 |
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| dolphm | gabrielhurley: just assume none of them are smart enough to be using it? (auth_token currently does some trivial inspection of the 300 response) | 20:08 |
| gabrielhurley | dolphm: the only way out is to rewrite history, which I don't think we're in the business of doing. Legacy clients don't support version discovery. They're pinned to whatever version they were built to work with. | 20:08 |
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| gabrielhurley | backporting version discovery sounds like a painful, messy and dangerous task | 20:09 |
| gabrielhurley | IMHO it's a "from here on out this works" type of deal | 20:09 |
| dolphm | agree | 20:09 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: see notmyname's question just above | 20:09 |
| ttx | <notmyname> on the api versioning side, is there any concern that an existing app at host/v1 is now raising it's scope to respond to /? | 20:09 |
| gabrielhurley | notmyname: I don't see a problem with it personally, but I'm open to concerns on it | 20:09 |
| gabrielhurley | the app technically already owns the / space, even if it's not responding there | 20:10 |
| gabrielhurley | OpenStack doesn't have good support for services not living at root currently | 20:10 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: I propose that we consider the topic solved as far as the TC goes -- please just raise it back from the dead if you encounter a roadblock that you think we can collectively help you with | 20:10 |
| dolphm | i'm thinking we need a openstack/common-api project to consistently define things at that level for (at least) core projects | 20:10 |
| gabrielhurley | dolphm: +1000 | 20:10 |
| ttx | dolphm: a new doc project ? | 20:11 |
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| ttx | Other questions on that topic ? | 20:12 |
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| dolphm | ttx: don't know, good question | 20:12 |
| ttx | dolphm: what would be in your openstack/common-api project ? base principles that every openstack API should implement ? Or code to that effect ? | 20:13 |
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| dolphm | ttx: api documentation for the 300 response, approach to versioning that response (if any), perhaps /capabilities when we get there | 20:13 |
| gabrielhurley | base principles at least would be my hope. reusable code would probably be better off living in oslo, but the two are related | 20:13 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: +1 | 20:13 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: ok, so common API design rules | 20:14 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah | 20:14 |
| gabrielhurley | we direly need a place for that sort of thing to live | 20:14 |
| * markmcclain thanks to delta.. I'm here for a little while | 20:14 | |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: yes. Could be some wiki doc, though | 20:14 |
| gabrielhurley | pros and cons... wikis are easy to change ;-) | 20:15 |
| dolphm | so, keystone-core has plustwoability over https://github.com/openstack/identity-api even though i sort of see it as a doc project -- i'm not sure there's an existing group that makes sense for reviewing openstack/common-api ? | 20:15 |
| * annegentle catches up reading | 20:15 | |
| notmyname | there is api-site | 20:15 |
| gabrielhurley | that documents the existing APIs | 20:15 |
| gabrielhurley | this is more about defining best practices and specs for *new* APIs | 20:15 |
| gabrielhurley | a goal for us all to work towards | 20:16 |
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| dolphm | gabrielhurley: ah, you want to include hateos, etc, there long-term? | 20:16 |
| ttx | we can have a new project and let TC plustwoing it | 20:16 |
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| gabrielhurley | dolphm: yeah. and things like needs around filtering, pagination, etc. that all projects need some form of. we need to stop reinventing the wheel on those. | 20:16 |
| gabrielhurley | ttx: that'd make the most sense | 20:17 |
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| ttx | anyway, implementation details. Anything more before we switch to talking about copyright headers ? | 20:17 |
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| annegentle | is there any new requirement for a doc standpoint to support capabilities? | 20:17 |
| annegentle | for/from | 20:17 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: i'm down for that, as long as we make a distinction between what is required of openstack api's and what is a very strongly recommended best practice | 20:17 |
| gabrielhurley | annegentle: I don't think so | 20:18 |
| gabrielhurley | not yet at least | 20:18 |
| annegentle | methinks we don't document extensions very well today so I don't know how capabilities will be an improvement, docs-wise, other than letting the api self-doc? I guess? | 20:18 |
| gabrielhurley | dolphm: absolutely. we can't force anyone to do anything | 20:18 |
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| gabrielhurley | annegentle: it's more for downstream consumers (like Horizon) to understand what things should be allowed in the interface | 20:18 |
| gabrielhurley | but yes, the docs for extensions are weak. that's a separate issue. ;-) | 20:19 |
| ttx | ok, next topic | 20:19 |
| ttx | #topic Getting rid of copyright headers | 20:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Getting rid of copyright headers (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:19 | |
| ttx | markwash raised the idea of getting rid of copyright notices in file headers | 20:19 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-May/009189.html | 20:20 |
| ttx | I think that *if* we do this, we have to do it consistently across all "OpenStack" projects | 20:20 |
| markwash | well | 20:20 |
| mikal | Do we really think its worth the effort? | 20:20 |
| markwash | for some more context #link http://softwarefreedom.org/resources/2012/ManagingCopyrightInformation.html | 20:20 |
| dolphm | mikal: is it really that much effort? | 20:20 |
| markwash | guys, can we hold on here for a sec | 20:20 |
| ttx | mikal: personally I'm not convinced of that | 20:20 |
| jgriffith | I agree with ttx about global, however I think this is going to be more problematic than it's worth | 20:21 |
| ttx | but some people are not even convinced it's a good idea to drop per-file info | 20:21 |
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| * ttx holds | 20:21 | |
| markwash | so there are three proposals in that email | 20:21 |
| hub_cap | so being a new project, i have 16 different versions of the headers in my code (overstatement). what is the purpose of keeping them? | 20:21 |
| markwash | the first proposal is pretty simple and cultural: we just try to avoid adding new copyright headers | 20:22 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: None, except some false sense of *something* to *someone* | 20:22 |
| markwash | the justification for that is that copyright headers are a small but not insignificant effort to keep up to date | 20:22 |
| markwash | and our best efforts so far have produced huge inaccuracies | 20:22 |
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| markwash | on top of that, they are completely unnecessary for folks to retain copyright | 20:22 |
| russellb | hub_cap: don't confuse the copyright statement with the license in the header, different issues | 20:22 |
| hub_cap | russellb: oh i mean copyright... i know u fixed a good bit of them but ive had issues internally w/ them and my team | 20:23 |
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| markwash | this proposal has no enforcement mechanism other than communication and review | 20:23 |
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| markwash | we're essentially defining what the "new normal is" | 20:23 |
| ttx | markwash: I think you increase inaccuracies if you stop adding them while keeping old ones around | 20:23 |
| dolphm | tangential: i don't totally understand how anyone can claim copyright without directly conflicting with the CLA Grant of Copyright License clause- https://review.openstack.org/static/cla.html | 20:24 |
| ttx | (or at least you increase confusion) | 20:24 |
| * markmc notes the combination of "these headers don't mean anything" and "oh noes! they're inaccurate!" | 20:24 | |
| markmc | don't really get it | 20:24 |
| jgriffith | TBH I'm still trying to figure out the maintenance burden? | 20:24 |
| jeblair | dolphm: granting a copyright licenese is not the same as copyright ownership | 20:24 |
| markwash | jgriffith: there was an email in the thread that documented the effort that was going into reviewing the headers | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | My thought is if it makes somebody or somebody's legal team feel warm and fuzzy they can add copyright | 20:25 |
| jeblair | dolphm: typically you or your employer owns the copyright in the code you write, and that's what the header indicates | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | markwash: I read it, but didn't see the effort | 20:25 |
| markwash | jgriffith: the problem is that we get a lot of cargo-culting around those warm-and-fuzzies | 20:25 |
| dolphm | jeblair: makes sense; thanks! | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | markwash: I understand that | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | markwash: I'm not saying I like it/agree with it | 20:26 |
| markwash | I think another thing to consider is that, inaccurate copyrights could give the wrong impression to someone | 20:26 |
| ttx | jgriffith: if our group spends more than 10 minutes discussing it, I think that will be more time spent on it than maintaining them ever will | 20:26 |
| jgriffith | Just a firm believer in choosing my battles | 20:26 |
| markmc | jgriffith, yes, yes | 20:26 |
| jgriffith | ttx: haha, +1 | 20:26 |
| markwash | for example, several files in glance, I might think I can talk direclty to red hat to license the content | 20:26 |
| markmc | sorry | 20:26 |
| markmc | ttx, agree | 20:26 |
| * jgriffith is sad that markmc didn't agree with him :( | 20:26 | |
| markwash | ttx: my hope with a policy like this is that at least if we know how things *should* be, we can outgrow the problem | 20:26 |
| markmc | jgriffith, oh, I actually did | 20:27 |
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| * jgriffith yell Yay!!! | 20:27 | |
| markwash | well, I can see you guys have already dismissed my concern about the reviewing time | 20:27 |
| ttx | markwash: the trick is that it's not really a technical problem, I think. People/companies are also attached to the fuzzy attribution that those notice get them | 20:27 |
| markwash | but frankly it is not fun when someone -1s your review becuase of copyright headers | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | markwash: they should be slapped | 20:28 |
| ttx | so reaching any kind of consensus around this is likely to take time | 20:28 |
| ttx | for a... limited gain. | 20:28 |
| annegentle | ttx: markwash: there's git blame, and there's copyright headers, for trying to figure out who might know something about a particular file. You can pick which you believe. | 20:28 |
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| markwash | annegentle: since folks should not believe the headers, they seem like a liability | 20:28 |
| mikal | Did we end up with NOTICE files being agreed to? | 20:28 |
| ttx | mikal: no | 20:29 |
| markmc | mikal, no, very much not | 20:29 |
| markwash | I don't really like NOTICE files either. . much better to accept that in-source isn't the way to go | 20:29 |
| markmc | I occasionally pull people up on Copyright headers | 20:29 |
| markmc | e.g. if they're obviously just sticking in OpenStack Foundation with no basis | 20:29 |
| markmc | it's not hard to understand what to put in a header | 20:29 |
| markmc | and I expect most people only need to be told once | 20:29 |
| markmc | and then don't make the most obvious mistakes again | 20:29 |
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| sdague | markmc: my experience differs on that :) | 20:30 |
| jeblair | and copyright is important for an open source project | 20:30 |
| russellb | sdague: on submitters? hopefully not reviewers | 20:30 |
| sdague | I've found repeated education required on both contributors and reviewers | 20:30 |
| jeblair | we should be able to document for new contributors what is expected, and it shouldn't take that much time in the long run | 20:30 |
| mikal | So, I agree that copyright lines in the headers are inaccurate and annoying. I just worry that its a really big job to remove them. Not technically, but from an arguing with people perspective. | 20:30 |
| russellb | that's sad, because honestly if you're reviewing code, you *better* have a basic understanding of this stuff | 20:30 |
| markwash | mikal: I feel like the whole "we have to remove them all" is a false dilemma | 20:30 |
| jgriffith | Ok, maybe you guys have a point here | 20:31 |
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| sdague | russellb: people didn't get chosen for core reviewing based on how they evaluated copyright headers | 20:31 |
| markwash | offered by folks who didn't like the proposal to begin with and didn't like finding out their legal advice was out of date | 20:31 |
| mikal | markwash: in the sense of you just want to stop adding more and leave the current ones? | 20:31 |
| jeblair | that's a false solution | 20:31 |
| mikal | markwash: cause that seems unfair to me... | 20:31 |
| markwash | mikal: that, plus remove the easy ones, like openstack foundation, and red hat (which has already offered unilateral permission) | 20:32 |
| markwash | mikal: in what way? | 20:32 |
| markwash | jeblair: how so? | 20:32 |
| mikal | markwash: I'm sure that people will say "how come I can't have one when all those people over there have them?" | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | markwash: I think you'll have the "well they did it, why can't I" | 20:32 |
| sdague | yeh, pretty mcuch | 20:32 |
| jeblair | markwash: that will only make them more inaccurate | 20:32 |
| sdague | jeblair: +1 | 20:32 |
| ttx | mikal: +1 | 20:32 |
| markwash | and we'll say "those are historical artifacts of no import" | 20:32 |
| jeblair | markwash: ideally, would you like no copyright notices anywhere? | 20:33 |
| sdague | if they are of no import, they should come out :) | 20:33 |
| markwash | jeblair: yes | 20:33 |
| ttx | markwash: unfortunately some companies see copyright notices as a contribution advertising space. So keeping the old ones around while new contributions don't generate new ones is likely to be... contested | 20:33 |
| notmyname | and the corporate council of all the contributing companies feel that they are of no import? seems unlikely | 20:33 |
| jeblair | the trouble i have with that is that we would be distributing open source software with no indication of who actually owns the copyright | 20:34 |
| jeblair | i find that disturbing | 20:34 |
| markwash | jeblair: do you feel that way after reading http://softwarefreedom.org/resources/2012/ManagingCopyrightInformation.html ? | 20:34 |
| markwash | I was impressed by the logic there | 20:34 |
| markwash | ttx: feels like a job for an AUTHORS file | 20:35 |
| ttx | markwash: I fear it's not a legal or technical issue. It's a warm fuzzies and a "why me and not him" issue | 20:35 |
| jeblair | markwash: yes, i do actually. i think it would be very strange not to have any idea who owned the copyright to OpenStack code | 20:35 |
| notmyname | or vcs logs | 20:35 |
| sdague | ttx: that's exactly the bind i'm in. I've gotten preliminary sign off that ibm is cool with them coming out, as long as it's policy and everyone's comes out. | 20:35 |
| sdague | but a partial solution is a problem | 20:35 |
| ttx | markwash: I agree with you that technically and legally, what you propose is fine | 20:35 |
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| sdague | jeblair: this is already policy on all the apache projects, do you not use them because of it? | 20:36 |
| ttx | markwash: but I expect contributors to continue to push copyrigth notices... and us having little ground to deny them | 20:36 |
| ttx | (unless they are all removed) | 20:36 |
| jeblair | notmyname: vcs logs can be wrong (and are often VERY wrong in our projects), and moreover, they don't actually tell you who owns the copyright | 20:36 |
| mikal | jeblair: many people don' | 20:36 |
| mikal | t add these headers for non-trivial changes | 20:36 |
| ttx | sdague: agreed. I expect more companies will react just like IBM, hence my "all of them or nothing" stance | 20:36 |
| mikal | jeblair: Look at nova/virt/libvirt/driver.py for example | 20:37 |
| mikal | jeblair: the true list of copyright holders for that file will be much longer than what's there | 20:37 |
| markwash | one potentially tangential concern is, why do people need to track down the copyrights? why can't they just accept asl 2.0 licensing from the foundation? | 20:37 |
| jgriffith | markwash: FWIW I agree with the philosophy and what your saying | 20:37 |
| jgriffith | markwash: I think the backlash is worse than the maintenance though | 20:38 |
| markwash | jeblair: we can also put in notices that say "you should look to this projects something-or-other for any hope of tracking down copyrights" in every file | 20:38 |
| jgriffith | markwash: and I agree with others that it has to be global or nothing | 20:38 |
| mikal | Well, we also haven't tested the backlash at all | 20:38 |
| mikal | We could just try it with nova and see how bad it is | 20:38 |
| sdague | mikal: +1 | 20:38 |
| markwash | so the main reason for global or nothing, is a sense of fairness for companies that want to use notices as a advertising space? | 20:38 |
| markwash | mikal: unfortunately nova is the worst | 20:38 |
| mikal | Maybe we're over estimating how much people care | 20:38 |
| ttx | agree that nobody should care, from a technical or legal standpoint. But in practice they care, because their name is on something, and it has value to them | 20:39 |
| ttx | mikal: we already know IBM cares. I expect others to take the same "ok if everyone does it" stance | 20:39 |
| markwash | ttx: I feel like "moving to NOTICE" rather than "removing" might help soften the blow, do you agree? | 20:39 |
| markmc | ttx, not NOTICE, that's a whole other ball of wax | 20:39 |
| ttx | markwash: yeah, that's why I looked into that, see my thread on legal-discuss | 20:39 |
| markmc | ttx, maybe a centralised file, but naming it NOTICE opens a whole other thing | 20:40 |
| jeblair | mikal, sdague: i think it would be terrible to start rejecting commits to nova because they had (C) notices, but not do the same for every project -- not doing the same across all projects is going to cause SO MUCH confusion | 20:40 |
| ttx | markmc: NOTICE or whatever works | 20:40 |
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| sdague | jeblair: honestly, with different review teams on different projects, it's not going to be any worse than the current situation | 20:40 |
| markwash | in any case, I think its clear that files are not required to have copyright headers, correct? | 20:41 |
| ttx | So in summary, I expect resistance from companies liking that they are mentioned, unless everyone is removed. Which makes the whole thing a bit complex to set up | 20:41 |
| ttx | and /maybe/ not worth it | 20:42 |
| markwash | so I'd honestly at this point be pretty happy if the canonical HACKING documentation was "put one in if you really want, but we don't really think there are any good legal or otherwise reasons to, so please try to restrain yourself" and leave it at the current free for all | 20:42 |
| markwash | then perhaps in a year or two, the problem will be relatively smaller in terms of cleanup | 20:42 |
| ttx | markwash: that's fine with me, as it's legally and technically accurate | 20:43 |
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| markwash | also, if you substantially modify a file, I'm pretty sure you are allowed to remove previous headers and replace your own | 20:43 |
| markwash | so we should make sure people know that as well | 20:43 |
| markwash | and tend towards simple removal without replacement | 20:44 |
| ttx | markwash: but my trust in human nature is not as large as yours ;) | 20:44 |
| markwash | ttx: honestly, most heads-down devs I've talked to find headers very tedious | 20:44 |
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| markwash | so being given license not to add anything would be nice for them | 20:44 |
| markwash | I'd like to remove all openstack foundation ones as well, honestly | 20:45 |
| markwash | but perhaps folks would prefer to wrap up the discussion for now? | 20:45 |
| ttx | markwash: I suspect most devs put in what their company asks them to. | 20:45 |
| dolphm | markwash: can we agree to remove the openstack foundation/llc ones as a first step here? | 20:45 |
| mikal | Well, I think many of those were added by Rackspace | 20:45 |
| ttx | jeblair: you has a good rationale for keeping per-file info, though | 20:45 |
| markwash | ttx: we used to just copy and paste and update the year | 20:45 |
| jeblair | dolphm: hardly | 20:45 |
| jeblair | dolphm: i don't think they are yours to remove | 20:46 |
| jeblair | (nor mine, just to be clear) | 20:46 |
| * markmc agrees with jeblair | 20:46 | |
| markwash | jeblair: we would need permission from the foundation, yes | 20:46 |
| markwash | but considering all the inaccurate assignment to the foundation that goes on presently, I think they'd be inclined to accept | 20:47 |
| mikal | I wonder if we should ask the board to back us up here... Ask the board members to go back to their companies and explain the rationale for not adding more copyright headers? | 20:47 |
| russellb | this is turning into quite a time sink | 20:47 |
| markmc | markwash, I actually doubt it - the foundation's counsel is pretty conservative IMHO | 20:47 |
| ttx | mikal: the board and the contributors are two separate bodies | 20:47 |
| markwash | also I don't believe the foundation hopes to license the parts of openstack they hold copyright to separately from the ASL 2.0 | 20:47 |
| markmc | markwash, dual-licensing is nothing to do with this | 20:48 |
| markwash | oh? | 20:48 |
| ttx | We should spend that time spent discussing this onto something much more useful, like suggesting names for stuff | 20:48 |
| jeblair | markwash: my understanding is that the foundation has copyright ownership of a chunk of code that rackspace donated to it, and that its (current) bylaws prohibit it from doing anything with that code other than releasing it under ASL-2.0 | 20:48 |
| jeblair | markwash: it may also own copyright in code that fungi and I write. | 20:49 |
| markwash | ttx: Infuriating :-) | 20:49 |
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| * fungi nods | 20:49 | |
| markwash | jeblair: that seems like they don't need notices then | 20:49 |
| fungi | i bet ttx can write code too ;) | 20:49 |
| ttx | fungi: I can and I do :) | 20:50 |
| ttx | but i'm not a Foundation employee so I'll put in whatever I want ! | 20:50 |
| hub_cap | heh | 20:50 |
| fungi | ahh, right. crazy contractors | 20:50 |
| jeblair | markwash: i'm not sure why the foundation owning a significant amount of code means they don't need a notice... | 20:50 |
| markwash | jeblair: to me it seems like the set of rights they have with code they own copyright to, and the set of rights they have with code licensed to them by the CLA, are congruent | 20:51 |
| jeblair | markwash: it seems like aside from anything else, for the purposes of copyright ownership of code, the foundation is in the same boat as all the other contributors | 20:51 |
| markwash | jeblair: the other issue is that folks at least for a time have been misattributing copyrights to the foundation | 20:52 |
| markmc | markwash, adding or removing the headers doesn't change ownership | 20:52 |
| jeblair | markwash: that should stop. :) | 20:52 |
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| ttx | seriously, this may seem like an easy problem to solve, but it's not -- and the current situation is not nearly bad enough for us to invest in fixing it | 20:53 |
| jeblair | ttx: +1 | 20:53 |
| ttx | So documenting the technical and legal realities will certainly help in clearing things up | 20:53 |
| dolphm | ttx: that sounds like a sane conclusion for the moment | 20:53 |
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| ttx | but I wouldn't hold my breath on hoping everyone can dance to the same tune on that anytime soon | 20:54 |
| markwash | I think if we document the realities better, and some simple advice, we'll be in a better place | 20:54 |
| ttx | it's one of thsoe things you need to get right from the beginning | 20:54 |
| annegentle | ttx: I have to offer https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Copyright | 20:54 |
| ttx | because touching it afterwards is painful | 20:54 |
| ttx | because it's not just a technical issue. | 20:54 |
| markwash | annegentle: I'd like to streamline that page, would you be open to reviewing some changes? | 20:55 |
| markmc | would be good to add to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/LegalIssuesFAQ too | 20:55 |
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| annegentle | markwash: yes, and you could also move it out from under /Documentation/ | 20:55 |
| annegentle | markmc: will do | 20:55 |
| markwash | annegentle: we need some hard and fast rules "do do this" "don't do this" for some of the obvious problems we have seen | 20:56 |
| annegentle | I think 1-2 years and some guidance will help. | 20:56 |
| * markwash is happy about not being on the hook for writing HACKING checks, at least | 20:57 | |
| ttx | heh | 20:57 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:57 | |
| ttx | 2 more minutes, anyone has anything to raise ? | 20:57 |
| dolphm | hard and fast is difficult when the legal speak is subjective enough to use wording like "substantially revised or updated" | 20:58 |
| annegentle | I wanted to bring up a doc rename in progress here. | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | hey just wanted to mention that we are changing names in reddwarf land, nothign really to discuss | 20:58 |
| ttx | hub_cap: we could... suggest names. | 20:58 |
| ttx | we like to do that. | 20:58 |
| annegentle | We've been removing "Developer Guide" from the titles of documents in <project>-api repositories. | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | ttx: https://gist.github.com/hub-cap/5622714 | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | my favorite so far is cask :) | 20:58 |
| markwash | hub_cap: you would | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | if u do have a suggestion feel free to ping me, ill add it | 20:58 |
| annegentle | Some of you have/haven't noticed. I originally was guiding Diane Fleming to make them "API Specifications" but I think "API Reference" is more apt for cross-project truthiness. | 20:59 |
| hub_cap | markwash: \o/ | 20:59 |
| markwash | :-) | 20:59 |
| ttx | "Stratius" :) | 20:59 |
| markmc | hah | 20:59 |
| * markmc was about to say exactly the same | 20:59 | |
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| annegentle | If you PTLs/TCers have input, do say so in the reviews. | 20:59 |
| markmc | Rover? really? | 20:59 |
| dolphm | hub_cap: it'd be nice if that list had a one liner explanation for each name lol | 20:59 |
| * jeblair looks for a weather baloon smothering someone | 21:00 | |
| hub_cap | dolphm: peep the last line | 21:00 |
| markmc | hub_cap, nice work though, naming is frickin hard | 21:00 |
| hub_cap | markmc: ya not a fan of rover or rex... but when i removed them it hurt someones feelings.. and im def not in the business of that LOL | 21:00 |
| dolphm | hub_cap: then why is there a gist?! | 21:00 |
| hub_cap | dolphm: cuz i locked it down | 21:00 |
| hub_cap | it went crazy quick | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok, end | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 21 21:00:57 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-05-21-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-05-21-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| russellb | hub_cap: sometimes being a leader is being willing to say no and hurt someone's feelings :-p | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-05-21-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
| mikal | Laters peoples | 21:01 |
| ttx | markmc, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, shardy, gabrielhurley, markmcclain: still around ? | 21:01 |
| russellb | yep. | 21:01 |
| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:01 |
| jd__ | o/ | 21:01 |
| shardy | o/ | 21:01 |
| * markwash sighs | 21:01 | |
| *** robertmyers has joined #openstack-meeting | 21:01 | |
| jgriffith | o/ | 21:01 |
| markmc | yep | 21:01 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 21 21:02:16 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| *** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away | 21:02 | |
| ttx | At the end of the day next Tuesday we will cut the havana-1 milestone-proposed branches | 21:02 |
| *** robertmyers has left #openstack-meeting | 21:02 | |
| ttx | That leaves one week to merge stuff in havana-1, so we'll look into plans and postpone what we already know won't make it | 21:02 |
| ttx | #topic General stuff | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General stuff (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
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| ttx | I don't have anything cross-project to report | 21:03 |
| ttx | annegentle, jeblair/mordred, sdague/davidkranz: news from Docs/Infra/QA teams ? | 21:03 |
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| ttx | annegentle: I guess that doc rename also applies here | 21:03 |
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| annegentle | ttx: was just going to mention. | 21:03 |
| ttx | please do | 21:03 |
| annegentle | all, look for "API Specifications" being renamed to "API Reference" as the naming is more apt for cross-project use | 21:04 |
| annegentle | They're currently called "Developer Guides" which is confusing. | 21:04 |
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| jeblair | ttx: nak | 21:04 |
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| annegentle | Doc team has some automation scripts now for bringing in all config info automatically (did I report that last week?) | 21:04 |
| annegentle | We're also hiring a contractor this summer to help with install guide madness. | 21:05 |
| ttx | (maybe?) | 21:05 |
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| annegentle | Cisco is hiring the contractor. | 21:05 |
| ttx | Thanks, Cisco. | 21:05 |
| annegentle | that's all I've | 21:05 |
| ttx | anything else before we go project-specific ? | 21:05 |
| sdague | ttx: nothing notable on QA | 21:06 |
| ttx | #topic Oslo status | 21:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:06 | |
| ttx | markmc: hi! | 21:06 |
| ttx | sdague: ok | 21:06 |
| markmc | yo | 21:06 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:06 |
| markmc | two havana-1 bps left | 21:06 |
| ttx | Looks like you're in pretty good shape, if I am to trust those delivery statuses | 21:06 |
| markmc | delayed-messaging is coming along, may make it | 21:06 |
| markmc | common-apiclient is a big patch, but the author is splitting it up | 21:07 |
| markmc | so, that may make it too | 21:07 |
| ttx | ok | 21:07 |
| ttx | Two remarks on the roadmap: | 21:07 |
| ttx | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/service-restart was proposed for havana and needs to be triaged | 21:07 |
| ttx | markmc: Did you look into trusted-messaging's dependency on key-distribution-server ? | 21:07 |
| markmc | yes, I put a tonne of info into the bp on that | 21:08 |
| markmc | basically, yes we require *some* key distribution method | 21:08 |
| markmc | keystone as a kds is the current plan | 21:08 |
| markmc | so, right now - it's blocked on that | 21:08 |
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| markmc | if that wasn't making progress, we might consider a hacky short term plan | 21:08 |
| ttx | markmc: can I mark it Blocked to reflect that ? | 21:09 |
| markmc | will look at service-restart | 21:09 |
| markmc | ok, will do | 21:09 |
| ttx | markmc: anything you wanted to raise ? | 21:09 |
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| markmc | we added two new oslo-core members today | 21:09 |
| markmc | Flavio Percoco | 21:09 |
| markmc | and Zhongyue Luo | 21:09 |
| markmc | will send out a mail on that | 21:09 |
| ttx | congrats! | 21:09 |
| markmc | that's it, otherwise | 21:10 |
| ttx | Questions about Oslo ? | 21:10 |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:10 | |
| ttx | dolphm: o/ | 21:10 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:10 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:10 |
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| ttx | dolphm: you deferred delegated-auth-via-oauth ? | 21:11 |
| dolphm | ttx: yes, although there's good progress against that bp that will probably merge in m1, there's a long list of remaining TODO's that won't make it | 21:11 |
| dolphm | i'm looking into splitting the bp into more achievable goals | 21:11 |
| dolphm | so we might have a completed checkbox for m1, but if not -- it's on track for m2 | 21:12 |
| ttx | bug 967832 is targeted to havana-1 but has no assignee -- any idea if someone will work on that ? | 21:12 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 967832 in keystone "Instances are still running when a tenant are deleted" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967832 | 21:12 |
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| ttx | (or if we should just untarget it ?) | 21:12 |
| dolphm | that's being worked in bp notifications | 21:12 |
| dolphm | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/notifications | 21:13 |
| ttx | so for havana-2 ? | 21:13 |
| dolphm | which is blocked by https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/unified-logging-in-keystone ... which we just added to m1 and is nearly complete | 21:13 |
| dolphm | ttx: yes, looks to be on pace for m2 | 21:13 |
| ttx | ok will retarget it | 21:13 |
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| ttx | On the more general havana plan, I saw that ayoung's proposal to split backends (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/split-identity) is missing from it | 21:14 |
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| dolphm | the scope of that bp is huge, and i'm trying to get some clarity on what we can accomplish in more discrete blueprints, one of which is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/domain-backend | 21:15 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 21:15 |
| ttx | yes, that's why I was a bit concerned to not see it appear anywhere | 21:15 |
| dolphm | along with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/extract-credentials-id which has already merged | 21:15 |
| ttx | ok, ideally there would be a set of dependent bps | 21:15 |
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| ttx | dolphm: Anything more about Keystone ? | 21:16 |
| dolphm | ttx: will do | 21:16 |
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| dolphm | that's it! | 21:16 |
| ttx | Questions anyone ? | 21:16 |
| ttx | #topic Ceilometer status | 21:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ceilometer status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:16 | |
| jd__ | o/ | 21:16 |
| ttx | jd__: hey | 21:16 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:16 |
| ttx | What's the status on udp-publishing and scheduler-counter ? | 21:17 |
| jd__ | scheduler-counter should be merged RSN now, no blocker | 21:17 |
| jd__ | udp publishing will be sent to review tomorrow | 21:17 |
| ttx | collector-stores-events seems to be a bit short for next week ? | 21:17 |
| jd__ | ttx: yes | 21:18 |
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| jd__ | add-event-table took more time we think I guess | 21:18 |
| jd__ | I'll talk with sandywalsh about it and I think we'll postpone | 21:18 |
| ttx | jd__: how about deferring it to havana-2 and move it back to h1 in case it miraculously makes it ? | 21:18 |
| jd__ | ttx: yeah works for me :) | 21:18 |
| ttx | OK. Looking into the general havana plan now... | 21:19 |
| ttx | You have 3 proposals to triage @ https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/havana/+setgoals | 21:19 |
| ttx | as if you didn't have enough BPs already ;) | 21:19 |
| ttx | to which you may want to add https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/hyper-v-agent | 21:19 |
| ttx | jd__: sqlalchemy-metadata-query is marked "Essential" -- who will be working on it ? | 21:19 |
| jd__ | ttx: nobody, and that's a problem, we keep essential so someone is willing to take it.. | 21:20 |
| jd__ | whishful thinking | 21:20 |
| ttx | hrm, not sure it's not the other way around :) | 21:20 |
| jd__ | haha | 21:20 |
| ttx | if nobody takes it at start of H2 we'll have to remove it or down-prioritize it | 21:21 |
| jd__ | ttx: agreed | 21:21 |
| ttx | I don't want to communicate that it WILL be in when it's likely that it won't | 21:21 |
| ttx | Also it would be great to have a milestone target indicated for the two high-priority blueprints: hbase-metadata-query and alarm-api | 21:21 |
| ttx | jd__: anything you wanted to mention ? | 21:21 |
| jd__ | nop, everything's fine otherwise | 21:22 |
| ttx | Questions on Ceilometer ? | 21:22 |
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| ttx | #topic Swift status | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:22 | |
| notmyname | hi | 21:22 |
| ttx | notmyname: o/ | 21:22 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/swift/+milestone/1.8.1 | 21:22 |
| ttx | notmyname: quick update on 1.8.1 progress ? | 21:22 |
| notmyname | I want to start getting it ready for release when the last global clusters feature lands | 21:23 |
| notmyname | should happen Real Soon Now (tm), but no dates yet | 21:23 |
| notmyname | b/c there's more that goes into it than just the patch landing | 21:23 |
| ttx | a bit of black magic is needed too | 21:23 |
| notmyname | :-) | 21:23 |
| ttx | notmyname: anything else you wanted to raise ? | 21:24 |
| notmyname | I've also updated #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/API to be more funtion-centric | 21:24 |
| notmyname | it's our current work on formalizing the swift v1 api spec | 21:24 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/API | 21:24 |
| notmyname | those are the two topics I have | 21:24 |
| notmyname | thanks | 21:24 |
| ttx | Questions about Swift ? | 21:24 |
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| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:25 | |
| ttx | markwash: o/ | 21:25 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:25 |
| markwash | hello! | 21:25 |
| ttx | preparing a heavy havana-2, I see | 21:26 |
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| markwash | well, some of those bps are just rolling on through | 21:26 |
| markwash | I have been and will continue to seek more feedback from some of the assignees I'm not working as closely with | 21:26 |
| ttx | You also have 4 bugs targeted... | 21:26 |
| ttx | no recent activity on bug 1163012 and bug 1020749 | 21:26 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1163012 in glance "glance-manage should use entry_points instead of scripts" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163012 | 21:27 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1020749 in glance "Use Openstack-Common notifier" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020749 | 21:27 |
| ttx | review for bug 1173415 is abandoned | 21:27 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1173415 in glance "Remove glance-control from the test suite" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173415 | 21:27 |
| ttx | Should any of those be removed from the list ? | 21:27 |
| markwash | ttx, I'll clean that up | 21:27 |
| ttx | cool, thx | 21:27 |
| ttx | Looking at the general havana plan now... | 21:27 |
| markwash | been focusing on blueprints so far | 21:27 |
| ttx | Looks pretty good to me now | 21:28 |
| * markwash tries | 21:28 | |
| ttx | markwash: anything you wanted to mention ? | 21:28 |
| markwash | nothing at the moment, thanks | 21:28 |
| ttx | Questions on Glance ? | 21:28 |
| ttx | markwash: thx! | 21:29 |
| ttx | markmcclain: around ? | 21:29 |
| markmcclain | hi | 21:29 |
| ttx | #topic Quantum status | 21:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quantum status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:29 | |
| ttx | markmcclain: hi! | 21:29 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/quantum/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:29 |
| ttx | Nice progress, still a lot to land but you're in a pretty good shape | 21:30 |
| ttx | markmcclain: About remove-use-of-quantum: do you think it's still doable for havana-1 ? | 21:30 |
| ttx | do you have some patch prepared that just needs the go-ahead on the naming ? | 21:30 |
| markmcclain | it's still doable, but I haven't heard back on the names we sent over | 21:30 |
| ttx | markmcclain: I asked Mark Collier to get back to you ASAP | 21:31 |
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| markmcclain | awesome.. thanks | 21:31 |
| ttx | not sure we can actually get everything lined up, including CI, with the rush on reviews pre-h1 | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | yeah.. that's my biggest concern | 21:32 |
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| ttx | maybe it's a better bet to do it just after h1. Not very happy with publishing another thing called "quantum" now but meh | 21:32 |
| ttx | we'll see what we can do | 21:32 |
| ttx | #action ttx to check with CI impact of renaming quantum a few days before milestone publication | 21:32 |
| ttx | Looking at your 19 havana-1-targeted bugs now... | 21:33 |
| ttx | bug 1136252 does not seem to be worked on... still want to keep it in-list ? | 21:33 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1136252 in quantum "[Metaplugin] fails with VIF extension" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1136252 | 21:33 |
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| markmcclain | that bug was added last day or so | 21:34 |
| ttx | markmcclain: I somehow doubt that | 21:34 |
| markmcclain | if code is not ready by Thursday I'm going to move it out | 21:34 |
| ttx | last activity 2013-03-05 21:47:57 | 21:34 |
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| ttx | markmcclain: ok | 21:35 |
| ttx | A couple remarks on the general havana plan: | 21:35 |
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| ttx | A few blueprints are targeted to havana-2 but not in the havana series goal: quantum-service-agent, lbaas-integration-with-service-types, varmour-fwaas-driver | 21:35 |
| markmcclain | ttx: you're right I was thinking about another metaplugin bug | 21:36 |
| ttx | ipsec-vpn-reference, lbaas-agent-scheduler and sharing-model-for-external-networks need a priority set... | 21:36 |
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| markmcclain | I'll clean up those BPs | 21:36 |
| ttx | that's all I had | 21:36 |
| ttx | markmcclain: anything you wanted to raise ? | 21:36 |
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| markmcclain | we covered renaming which was my main item | 21:37 |
| ttx | Questions on Quantum ? | 21:37 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:37 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: hi! | 21:37 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | hola | 21:37 |
| ttx | Looks like it's a bit late | 21:37 |
| ttx | Anything you already know won't make it ? | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I already kicked a few out, EMC and NetApp held up by legal | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I think the rest will make it | 21:38 |
| ttx | ok | 21:38 |
| ttx | You also have 7 open bugs on the havana-1 list... | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I'll adjust tomorrow night if things don't go as I plan | 21:38 |
| ttx | bug 1169290, bug 1166899, bug 1171906 and bug 1161557 have no assignee | 21:38 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1169290 in cinder "local attach of iSCSI silently fails" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1169290 | 21:38 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1166899 in cinder "MultiBackend naming convention not compatable with zmq" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1166899 | 21:38 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1171906 in cinder "cinder fail test_schedule_happy_day test" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1171906 | 21:38 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1161557 in nova "Race condition in handling of udev generated symlinks" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1161557 | 21:38 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: Yes | 21:38 |
| ttx | and the others haven't seen any recent activity... so this list could probably be refreshed/refined | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I'll be the default for the ones not assigned | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I may drop two of them, haven't decided yet | 21:39 |
| ttx | jgriffith: maybe go over them and remove the milestone target if nobody will work on them | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | I'll get to them in the next 48 hours though | 21:39 |
| ttx | Looking at the general havana plans now... | 21:39 |
| ttx | You have four more to triage at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/havana/+setgoals | 21:39 |
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| ttx | jgriffith: Did you work with Avishay on breaking up his volume-migration blueprint ? | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | dang it! | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I've asked him to do it, but haven't seen any effort there yet | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I'll harass him in our meeting tomorrow or do it for him | 21:40 |
| ttx | jgriffith: Sounds good. Anything else on your mind ? | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | haha... | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | not that I should share here :) | 21:40 |
| ttx | naughty. | 21:40 |
| ttx | Questions on Cinder ? | 21:40 |
| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:41 | |
| russellb | o/ | 21:41 |
| ttx | russellb: hey | 21:41 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:41 |
| russellb | been updating during meeting, heh | 21:41 |
| ttx | Nice progress overall... anything you suspect won't make it ? | 21:41 |
| russellb | i think everything left is doable | 21:41 |
| russellb | will continue to track progress and push on these things throughout the week | 21:41 |
| ttx | I see you fixed the bug list too, good | 21:42 |
| ttx | About the general havana plan, there are 9 hyper-v blueprints that are targeted to havana-{2,3} for which the series goal should probably be set | 21:42 |
| russellb | yeah, untargeted a bunch of stuff that didn't need to block the release | 21:42 |
| ttx | You can see them at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova?searchtext=hyper-v | 21:42 |
| russellb | argh ... this part of launchpad drives me crazy | 21:43 |
| russellb | so hard to catch all of these | 21:43 |
| russellb | ok, will fix these up | 21:43 |
| ttx | the trick is there is no way to really automate this one way or another | 21:43 |
| ttx | since half of them should be denied | 21:43 |
| russellb | i like how setting havana is gated, but wish the milestone was too | 21:44 |
| ttx | russellb: anything else you wanted to mention ? | 21:44 |
| russellb | don't think so | 21:44 |
| ttx | Any question on Nova ? | 21:45 |
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| ttx | #topic Heat status | 21:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:45 | |
| shardy | hi | 21:45 |
| ttx | shardy: o/ | 21:45 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:45 |
| ttx | Looks like you're in good shape... | 21:45 |
| ttx | What's the status of native-cinder-volume ? | 21:45 |
| shardy | Yep, couple of bugs might get bumped, but otherwise good | 21:46 |
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| ttx | Was wondering if https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/scalingpolicy-update-stack wasn't actually complete | 21:46 |
| ttx | shardy: yes, your targeted bug list looks pretty current... except maybe bug 1166084 and bug 1158598 | 21:47 |
| shardy | ttx: native-cinder-volume patches are under review atm, last one pending to be merged I think | 21:47 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1166084 in heat "Creation of NetworkInterface resource failed because GroupSet attribute is invalid" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1166084 | 21:47 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1158598 in heat "REST error body should be parseable by clients" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158598 | 21:47 |
| ttx | but otherwise looks good | 21:47 |
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| shardy | yes you're probably right re scalingpolicy-update-stack, will fix | 21:47 |
| shardy | will clarify which bugs, if any, move to h2 at our meeting tomorrow | 21:48 |
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| ttx | I see you added milestone targets to most BPs | 21:48 |
| ttx | In the high-prio list that only leaves open-api-dsl untargeted | 21:48 |
| shardy | yes, particularly the high priorit ones | 21:48 |
| ttx | Also resource-template (High priority) depends on resource-properties-schema (Low priority) -- that should be adjusted | 21:49 |
| shardy | that is deliberate, since it's kind of an umbrella BP | 21:49 |
| ttx | shardy: ok | 21:49 |
| shardy | and also we're still very much discussing the scope of what will be achievable for havana | 21:49 |
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| shardy | ttx: ok, will fix the resource-* ones | 21:50 |
| ttx | shardy: anything else you want to raise ? | 21:50 |
| shardy | ttx: don't think so, no | 21:50 |
| ttx | Questions about Heat ? | 21:50 |
| ttx | #topic Horizon status | 21:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:50 | |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: o/ | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:50 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | refresh if you haven't recently | 21:51 |
| ttx | Time to land stuff, apparently :) | 21:51 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah. the story is basically "everything's got patches, and we need to do a lot of reviewing" | 21:51 |
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| gabrielhurley | but aside from that it's all looking good for next tuesday | 21:51 |
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| ttx | Was wondering if https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/admin-password-for-server shouldn't be marked "implemented" | 21:51 |
| ttx | couldn't find another review up for it | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | possibly | 21:52 |
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| ttx | What's the status for heat-ui ? | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm a little behind the last day or two | 21:52 |
| ttx | all patches proposed ? | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | heat-ui just got posted and I need to look at it. everything's up, but it's got the most work needed. | 21:52 |
| ttx | ok | 21:52 |
| ttx | you refined your bug list I see | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | yep | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | I always just roll the bugs I think *can* be fixed from milestone to milestone | 21:53 |
| ttx | so those are all the ones you'd like to see closed by h1 delivery day ? | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | ideally | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | it's really just the transifex stuff that doesn't have a review already | 21:54 |
| ttx | ok, we'll refine again next week with the ones that would be worth backporting hassle | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | yep | 21:54 |
| ttx | In other news, two new blueprints were proposed for havana | 21:54 |
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| ttx | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/havana/+setgoals | 21:54 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: anything you wanted to mention ? | 21:55 |
| gabrielhurley | not currently | 21:55 |
| ttx | Questions on Horizon ? | 21:55 |
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| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:55 | |
| ttx | hub_cap, devananda: hi! | 21:55 |
| devananda | ttx: hi! | 21:56 |
| ttx | devananda: got your repo set up ? | 21:56 |
| devananda | yes :) | 21:56 |
| hub_cap | hai | 21:56 |
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| * hub_cap doesnt have a name... or a repo | 21:56 | |
| ttx | hub_cap will wait for a new name before he can move off stackforge | 21:56 |
| hub_cap | def | 21:56 |
| ttx | Any question ? | 21:57 |
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| ttx | I don't think it makes a lot of sense to do a h1 for any of you next week | 21:57 |
| devananda | no questions here. i can give a small update if you want | 21:57 |
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| hub_cap | ttx: we honestly could... our project is pretty far along so to speak | 21:57 |
| ttx | since one doesn't have a lot to show and the other doesn't have the definitive name yet ? | 21:57 |
| hub_cap | oh well ya | 21:57 |
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| ttx | hub_cap: how about we do one once you get the name in | 21:58 |
| hub_cap | thats a sticking point isint it :P | 21:58 |
| hub_cap | ttx: sounds great | 21:58 |
| devananda | but yea, h1 doesn't make sense for Ironic. mostly straw-men here right now :) | 21:58 |
| ttx | #action ttx to help with reddwarf h1 publication when the name issue is settled | 21:58 |
| ttx | devananda: please go ahead | 21:58 |
| ttx | (with a small update) | 21:58 |
| devananda | we're still laying the groundwork for most things | 21:59 |
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| devananda | API spec should be relatively complete soon, hopefully this week | 21:59 |
| devananda | manager service and so on as well | 21:59 |
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| devananda | but lots to do :) still hoping to have something to show for h2, but hard to be sure yet what it'll be | 22:00 |
| devananda | [eol] | 22:00 |
| ttx | devananda: thx! | 22:00 |
| hub_cap | update in one line: Heat integration and devstack/tempest integration my two highest prios. backups and notifications just merged for h1. hope to have heat in h2. | 22:00 |
| ttx | that closes our meeting. Thanks everyone ! | 22:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 21 22:00:49 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-05-21-21.02.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-05-21-21.02.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-05-21-21.02.log.html | 22:00 |
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| gabrielhurley | #startmeeting horizon | 22:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 21 22:01:38 2013 UTC. The chair is gabrielhurley. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | hello folks | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic overview | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "overview (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:01 | |
| bradjones | hey | 22:01 |
| jpich | Hello | 22:01 |
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| davidlyle | Hello | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | The milestone-proposed branch for H1 will be cut about this time next Tuesday, so we've got 'til then to land stuff. | 22:02 |
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| gabrielhurley | That said, I think we're in good shape. | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | there's lots of stuff to review (I'm working my way through it right now) | 22:02 |
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| gabrielhurley | besides that info, I can't say there's a ton of stuff going on right now from the project level. | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | Seeing as how my attention is split 3 ways I'm gonna just open it up for questions and discussion and let y'all lead this one to some degree. | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic open discussion | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:03 | |
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| bradjones | I have a bit of an issue with horizon + devstack + fedora you may have seen the email from Kyle in the mailer? | 22:04 |
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| gabrielhurley | I did see that | 22:04 |
| jpich | About https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1182011 -- I think there is a translation file missing on Transifex, who should be contacted to upload it? | 22:04 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1182011 in horizon "djangojs.po not available on Transifex" [High,Confirmed] | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | jpich: I can handle that one | 22:04 |
| jpich | gabrielhurley: Thanks! | 22:04 |
| bradjones | Well if we run horizon from run-tests runserver everything works | 22:05 |
| bradjones | just running from devstack all the js is broken | 22:05 |
| jpich | bradjones: I had a similar issue on a VM where I just upgraded devstack, but it works fine on a fresh install (this may not help, I realise) | 22:05 |
| jpich | using Fedora 18 | 22:05 |
| bradjones | thinking this may be some sort of cache issue | 22:05 |
| bradjones | jpich: yes | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | I've been reading along but haven't had a chance to investigate. Nothing jumps to mind so obviously that I can say what it is without trying it. | 22:06 |
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| bradjones | When we go back to a commit before pulling everything seems fine hence thinking maybe some sort of local cache | 22:06 |
| bradjones | jpich: I also have it working on a completely fresh vm just hoping there may be a solution other than wiping and starting again | 22:07 |
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| bradjones | I'm struggling to know if the issue sits with devstack or horizon? | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | you could try just deleting your STATIC_DIR directory... | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | whatever that's set to in your local_settings | 22:09 |
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| davidlyle- | davidlyle2 | 22:10 |
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| jpich | Unrelated: I was also wondering about jenkins testing on both Django 1.4 and 1.5. I think we talked about it but I can't remember what was the next step to get it done. I would expect we'll lose compatibility fairly quickly if we don't check for it | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | need to work that with the CI team | 22:12 |
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| gabrielhurley | mordred would be the best person to ask | 22:12 |
| bradjones | gabrielhurley: I can't see where that is defined | 22:13 |
| jpich | Ok, I'll do that | 22:13 |
| gabrielhurley | bradjones: sorry, it's STATIC_ROOT https://github.com/openstack/horizon/blob/master/openstack_dashboard/settings.py#L51 | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | also, you might check the COMPRESS_OUTPUT_DIR specifically, inside the static root dir. https://github.com/openstack/horizon/blob/master/openstack_dashboard/settings.py#L125 | 22:15 |
| bradjones | gabrielhurley: thanks I will give that a try | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | that's the only place where (depending on configuration) things get compiled locally (which is sort of like caching) | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | I've forgotten, is devstack set up to do run the collecstatic and compress commands, or to serve the media in debug mode without those? | 22:16 |
| bradjones | would I be right in saying that by default this folder would be in /opt/stack/horizon/ ? | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | bradjones: probably. to be honest I haven't made an edit to the horizon devstack code in over a year. I got it working way-back-when and have ignored it ever since. | 22:17 |
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| * gabrielhurley ought to go look at it... | 22:17 | |
| bradjones | well i've tried just deleting everything from /opt/stack/horizon/ then letting devstack reclone the repo but the issue persists, this should have cleared everything out | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | hmmm | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | that's very strange | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm pretty sure there aren't any weird apache modules installed that'd be doing that... | 22:20 |
| bradjones | you mentioned about setting devstack up to run the collectstatic commands could you elaborate as how I can set that up | 22:21 |
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| gabrielhurley | it doesn't look like devstack is serving the static media that way | 22:24 |
| gabrielhurley | but if you wanted to run the commands I believ you can do "./run_tests.sh -m collectstatic" and "./run_tests.sh -m compress" | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | the "-m" passes the command through to django's manage.py with the right settings file and such under the hood | 22:25 |
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| gabrielhurley | caveat: I haven't tried running those myself in a few months | 22:25 |
| bradjones | ok thanks I will try out all the suggestions failing that I guess wipe and start again as that doesn't cause any issues | 22:26 |
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| gabrielhurley | that's really weird though | 22:27 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd love to know what's at the root of it | 22:27 |
| bradjones | if I find a fix I will respond in the mailer | 22:28 |
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| jpich | ...I'm gonna guess the meeting's over now. Chat with you all next week ;) | 22:43 |
| gabrielhurley | ah. whoops. yes, meeting over. Thanks folks! | 22:44 |
| gabrielhurley | #endmeeting | 22:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 22:44 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 21 22:44:21 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:44 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-05-21-22.01.html | 22:44 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-05-21-22.01.txt | 22:44 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-05-21-22.01.log.html | 22:44 |
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