Thursday, 2013-06-13

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hemanthdo we have an LBaaS meeting today?14:30
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jd__#startmeeting ceilometer15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 13 15:00:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
jd__hi everybody15:00
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jd__#topic Review Havana-2 milestone15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Havana-2 milestone (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:02
jd__we did some progress, so congrats15:03
jd__don't forget to update your blueprint statut to make me happy15:03
jd__anyone wants to add something about these bp/bugs?15:03
eglynnmight be slightly off-topic, but just wondering about non-mongodb support for metadata-query15:04
eglynnrelated to the approach around instance metadata to identify autoscaling groups etc.15:04
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eglynnthat we discussed the other day ...15:04
eglynnrequires that the alarm threshold eval logic is querying something like ...15:05
sandywalsheglynn, perhaps the schema work I'm doing around events might be applicable to that?15:05
eglynnGET /v2/meters/cpu_util?q.op=eq&q.value=foobar&q.field=metadata.autoscaling_group15:05
jd__sandywalsh: I think it will15:05
eglynnsandywalsh: could be15:05
sandywalshEvents have Traits ... where traits are essentially metadata15:05
jd__but nobody's working on that actually eg15:06
jd__but nobody's working on that actually eglynn15:06
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jd__I'm saying just to worry you more15:06
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* eglynn just had a wobble about building in a dependency on mongo only ...15:06
sandywalshyep, rightfully so :)15:06
gordcit's just sql that needs metadata support right? i vaguely remember seeing a patch for hbase.15:07
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eglynngordc: yep, it was mysql I had in mind15:07
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eglynnanyhoo, I've dragged the meeting off-topic15:07
eglynn(not in scope for h2 I'd imagine)15:08
eglynn(unless someone steps up with a sqlalchmey metadata-query patch)15:08
gordceglynn, i think we had some ppl reviewing how to support sql metadata query but i'm not sure about the status on that. might be taking another path.15:08
gordci'll let you know if i hear anything.15:08
eglynngordc: thanks!15:09
sandywalsheglynn, the event-based approach is a bit of a radical change since the meters wouldn't duplicate the metadata, but rather, point back to the underlying event. So, that might affect your efforts in many other ways.15:09
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sandywalsheglynn, the meters may add new metadata (traits) though15:09
eglynnsandywalsh: right, but still possible/efficient to do metadata/trait matching in meter queries?15:10
sandywalsh(then the whole debate comes up about modeling meters as Events, but I'll leave that :)15:10
sandywalsheglynn, I think so. Once I wrap up this event collector, we're going to pound it to check performance15:10
eglynnsandywalsh: cool15:10
sandywalshearly tests are promising15:10
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jd__#topic Open discussion15:13
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jd__not many things to discuss anyway so go on :)15:13
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sandywalshwhen's the Havana 2 deadline again?15:13
eglynnrelease expected on July 18th IIRC15:14
sandywalshcool, thx15:14
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sandywalshjd__, how are we looking on code reviews?15:14
jd__pretty good I think15:14
sandywalshgood to hear15:14
jd__the backlog isn't giant15:14
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eglynnrelease expected on July 18th IIRC15:15
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eglynnmeh, serious lag on IRC today ...15:16
llu-laptopsandy, about, is string of 255 large enough?15:16
llu-laptopwhat the performance penalty of string 1024 compared to 255?15:16
sandywalshllu-laptop, million dollar question. But I think it's a good line in the sand. Don't want the Trait strings to be a dumping ground.15:16
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sandywalshI'll be adding an external json table next so large strings should go there15:17
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llu-laptopsandywalsh: ok, got that15:17
sandywalshmy fear is URL's right now ... but 255 should be ok for that (I hope)15:18
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thomasemsandywalsh: There would never be a larger URL than that?15:19
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sandywalshthomasem, depends if someone does some crazy GET parameters15:19
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sandywalshbut, that gets into a json vs. string issue again. Don't want to try and figure that all out beforehand. Adjust accordingly later.15:20
thomasemsandywalsh: Sure, hmmm?15:21
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thomasemsandywalsh: First thought that comes to mind, have the possibility of a long string if needed as a data type?15:23
sandywalshthe problem is mysql and managing the page size15:23
sandywalshso they need to be normalized out of the trait table. And in that case, might as well use the text field for large strings (like json)15:24
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sandywalshI think newer versions of mysql (or postgres) treat json as a first class citizen too.15:24
thomasemsandywalsh: I don't know much about this, so I'll poke around and bring it up once I have better context.15:25
sandywalshI'm still figuring it out too ... so please share your insights :)15:25
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thomasemsandywalsh: Absolutely. :) Definitely something I want to learn about.15:26
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xingzhouone question on, have we considered to support mongodb replication set before? as it's a famous feature of mongo15:30
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1188649 in ceilometer "connect to mongodb with pymongo's mongo_client" [Undecided,Confirmed]15:30
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sandywalshxingzhou, I think that's a deployment choice ... now the shard key choice is a very serious one we should consider.15:31
sandywalshxingzhou, but yeah, that would be the way to address that bug15:31
dhellmanndoes the shard key need to be configurable, or is that something we would be able to set based on our knowledge of the data?15:32
sandywalshI think we need to decide on it, since it's so critical to balancing and query performance15:32
dhellmannmakes sense15:32
eglynnis it possible to re-partition after the fact if unbalanced?15:33
sandywalshwe've been talking about it a lot internally and have some opinions ... we should send it to the ml15:33
sandywalsheglynn, it is, but it's very expensive15:33
jd__FWIW #1188649 is about HA, not sharding15:33
sandywalshand if you get it wrong mongo will spend all it's time rebalancing15:33
sandywalshjd__, yes, sorry, replica sets are the way to address that15:34
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xingzhoure jd__, its replica set15:34
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jd__closing in 2 minutes if nobody speaks :)15:36
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jd__thanks guys15:45
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rpodolyaka_is there anybody who came for PY3 meeting? :)16:11
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sdaguehey there, who's around for the tempest meeting today?17:00
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mtreinishsdague: I'm here17:01
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sdague#startmeeting qa17:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 13 17:01:21 2013 UTC.  The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:01
ravikumar_hpsdague: hi17:01
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sdagueok, who else is around?17:01
davidkranzsdague: Here17:01
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sdagueso, I was lame, and didn't get around to setting up an agenda this week. So lets do the regular stuff: Blueprints, Crictical Reviews, then open discussion17:03
sdague#topic Blueprints17:03
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sdagueok, havana-2 is there, any updates from folks?17:05
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sdagueI'm going to make it a fast meeting if no one else speaks up :)17:05
mtreinishsdague: nothing from me...17:06
afazekasspeed up tempest17:06
ravikumar_hpsdague: I will start submitting from next week17:06
sdagueravikumar_hp: ok good17:06
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ravikumar_hpKeystone and network17:06
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sdaguemtreinish: want to give an update on the testr state of things?17:06
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sdagueanyone else with blueprint updates?17:07
mtreinishsdague: so I've got the fixtures prototype out there now. I'm working on using the testtools extension test suite FixtureSuite for the list tests17:07
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sdaguemtreinish: cool17:07
davidkranzmtreinish: Any comment about the cleanup performance issue?17:08
mtreinishFixtureSuite (at least according to the testtools documentation) does the fixture setup before all the tests and cleanup after all the tests which is what we are looking for17:08
mtreinishbut I'm not sure how it integrates with testr (if at all)17:08
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davidkranzmtreinish: I meant the one-phase vs two-phase issue.17:08
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mtreinishdavidkranz: I haven't had a chance to look at your suggestion about the 2 phase cleanup yet17:08
davidkranzmtreinish: That's OK.17:09
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mtreinishdavidkranz: but it sounds like it could be used to solve the issue17:09
davidkranzmtreinish: But I don't think we will be able to live with sequential delete in a large system.17:09
afazekasmtreinish: I guess a new runner based on testtools can be implemented which able to call the setupclass, the testtools in theory designed to be extensible17:09
mtreinishdavidkranz: no we won't17:09
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davidkranzmtreinish: Just saying I think we need to solve that problem before committing this kind of change.17:10
sdaguedavidkranz: honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about solving that problem in advance though. We need to do it eventually17:10
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afazekasmtreinish:This can be the fastest way to have have PoC with testr subunit testtools ..17:10
sdaguebut we're going to go to 4 tests running in parallel so the delete case may very well still not hurt us17:10
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sdaguewe'll see what the timing looks like across the suite as a whole17:11
sdagueok, anything else on blueprints?17:11
mtreinishsdague, davidkranz: yeah it should only really be a hit on things like the list tests where we create and delete multiple resources per test17:11
adalbasyes, sdague , about the grenade on the gate17:11
davidkranzsdague: I agree with you in upstream but people are running tempest on larger systems downstream.17:11
sdaguedavidkranz: but our tests define the number of resources17:12
mtreinishafazekas: yeah it probably will, I plan to look at it after I'm finished my FixtureSuite experiment17:12
sdagueif downstream has forked tempest which they haven't contributed back, it's not that concerning to me17:12
sdagueadalbas: go for it17:12
davidkranzsdague: I'm only saying this because it should be fairly simple to fix. I am not talking about forking downstream, just running.17:13
davidkranzAnyway, we can move on.17:13
adalbasthere is one issue that glance show is returning deleted images17:13
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sdaguedavidkranz: right, we might be talking across each other17:13
mtreinishadalbas: is that the one you asked me about from before17:13
sdagueadalbas: cool, has the bug been registered on glance?17:13
adalbasand this is causing one of the tempest smoke tests to fail17:13
adalbasmtreinish, yes.17:14
adalbasthe devstack environment is ok17:14
adalbasbut not on grenade17:14
adalbasthat might be something about the upgrade17:14
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adalbasnot sure if something changed on the db schema. I looked over config files and there seem to be nothing that would cause this there17:15
sdagueok, sounds like an issue we should bring into the #openstack-qa channel, as if that's the last thing holding up gating on grenade, we want to get to the bottom of it17:15
afazekasabalbas: are you speaking about the image_2id  exception ? (Or something similar)17:15
sdaguebut probably not debug in this meeting17:15
adalbassure sdague17:15
sdagueok, let's jump to reviews that people need17:15
sdague#topic Reviews Needed17:16
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mpavlasewhat 'grenade' means in OpenStack context?17:16
sdagueok, time to pimp your reviews17:16
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sdaguempavlase: grenade is upgrade testing, going from grizzly -> master17:16
mpavlasesdague: thank you17:16
sdagueok, any reviews people need eyes on?17:17
adalbastks sdague17:17
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sdagueok, I'll take a look after the meeting17:18
afazekasadalbas: is your flavor response line contains the same id in the [0]  and [1] index ?17:18
sdagueany other ones17:18
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adalbasyes afazekas17:19
adalbasit gets the default_instance_type and when it builds the array, the value is duplicated in the first 2 positions17:19
adalbasgoing over a loop would eliminate that17:20
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afazekasmakes sense17:20
sdagueadalbas: cool, great17:21
sdagueany other reviews?17:21
sdague#topic Open Discussion17:21
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sdagueok, open discussion, any other topics?17:21
davidkranz#topic Multinode testing17:22
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davidkranzIs this on our roadmap now?17:22
davidkranzI thought it was but can't find mention of it anywhere.17:22
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afazekasIt is on my road map, I do not know what is the others opinion.17:22
davidkranzafazekas: Is there a blueprint?17:23
sdaguedavidkranz: no one had brought in a blueprint with a committed schedule on it17:23
sdagueso there is no targetted havana blueprint at this point17:23
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davidkranzsdague: What do we need from ci?17:23
sdaguedavidkranz: I don't know, that would all be part and parcel of the blueprint17:24
davidkranzsdague: I'll ask the ci folks then.17:24
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sdagueI expect this to be a lot of work, as you'll need to coordinate devstack installs across 2 nodes17:25
sdagueit's a good thing to work, for sure, just realize it's a lot of heads down time17:25
davidkranzsdague: Yes, and get the two nodes in the first place.17:25
sdaguewould be great to have an owner driving this17:26
davidkranzsdague: I'll work on that.17:26
sdagueother topics for discussion?17:26
sdague#topic Open Discussion17:27
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sdaguegoing once....17:27
sdaguegoing twice....17:27
afazekasmodule import17:27
sdagueafazekas: go for it17:28
afazekasDo we want to follow this hacking rule , or we want to remove it from the documentation ?17:28
sdagueI would like to follow it17:28
mtreinishafazekas: so we aren't in compliance with this rule at all right now17:28
mtreinishit's disabled17:29
mtreinishbut we should be in compliance I think17:29
mtreinish(we want to be)17:29
sdagueright, but the question is whether we drop it from our guidelines17:29
sdagueI honestly find reading the code is a lot easier when you don't have to guess where the modules are coming from17:29
afazekas2000 line change, and it does not gives better readability always17:29
davidkranzafazekas: Which rule exactly?17:30
afazekasimport only module17:30
sdagueafazekas: it doesn't always, but in a lot of cases it does17:30
davidkranzafazekas: Oh, I thought we already did that in tempest. I must be wrong.17:30
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sdagueI'd call it a low priority item to fix17:30
sdaguebut I'd still like to see it fixed17:30
sdaguethe only rules I really want us to ignore, personally, are E123 and E125 which definitely overreach17:31
sdagueok, other items for discussion?17:32
mtreinishsdague: the current ignore list is: E125,H302,H40417:32
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afazekasThe alphabetic order usually tricky when you changes multiple files17:32
sdagueafazekas: yeh, but it's handy for reading17:32
sdague302 is the import, what's 404 again?17:32
afazekasmtreinish: As I remember you also recommended 3 import group17:32
davidkranzmtreinish: How do you find out what these codes are?17:33
mtreinishsdague: docstring rule17:33
davidkranzmtreinish: Where are they defined?17:33
mtreinishafazekas: yeah group it by python std lib import, 3rd party, and tempest17:33
mtreinishdavidkranz: it's in tox.ini17:33
sdaguedavidkranz: the hacking rules are in - (HXXX codes)17:33
afazekasProbably it is doable to order them by a script if the rule  is well defined for this17:33
sdaguethe others are in pep817:33
davidkranzsdague: OK, thanks.17:34
sdaguetox.ini defines what we skip17:34
mtreinishdavidkranz: oh, sry I misread what you asked, I thought you asked where the ignore list was17:34
afazekasmtreinish: do you have a recommendation to the ordering of the three group ?17:35
sdagueafazekas: it's in HACKING.rst17:35
sdague  {{stdlib imports in human alphabetical order}}17:35
sdague  \n17:35
sdague  {{third-party lib imports in human alphabetical order}}17:35
sdague  \n17:35
sdague  {{tempest imports in human alphabetical order}}17:35
sdaguethere is an example there as well17:36
sdagueok, anything else for today?17:36
afazekassdague:  "yeah group it by python std lib import, 3rd party, and tempest"17:36
sdaguegoing once...17:37
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sdaguegoing twice...17:37
sdagueok, let's take any further discussion to #openstack-qa - it's always open, and good place to chat on all things QA17:37
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun 13 17:38:01 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:38
openstackMinutes (text):
sdaguethanks all17:38
mlavallethank you17:38
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 13 18:00:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:00
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bdpaynegood morning / afternoon / evening OSSG18:00
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bdpayneBryan Payne from Nebula here18:01
bdpaynewho else is joining today?18:01
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rellerrellerHere, but checking out a few minutes early18:01
bdpaynehrm, perhaps it's just us today?18:03
bdpayneanything you want to discuss?18:03
rellerrellerI don't really have anything.18:03
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bdpayneok… I don't have much for this week either18:04
bdpayneso perhaps we'll just cancel for today18:04
bdpaynethanks for attending rellerreller :-)18:04
rellerrellerI'm ok with that18:04
rellerrellerNo problem :-)18:04
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rlpSorry I missed the security meeting.18:19
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rpodolyaka_db meeting time?19:06
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boris-42it seems that nobody cares19:59
harlowjai care!19:59
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harlowja#startmeeting state-management20:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 13 20:00:28 2013 UTC.  The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'state_management'20:00
harlowjahi all!20:00
harlowjahey hey20:00
harlowjayo yo20:01
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harlowjanot so much from my end to discuss, everyone busy doing *work* i thinks20:01
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harlowjai invited jgriffith so maybe we can also talk about cinder more stuffs20:02
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harlowjaH2 targets and H3 and such20:02
harlowjai guess go over action items from last time first20:02
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harlowjano adrian, so can skip that :-p20:03
harlowjai didn't get around to the launchpad openness issue yet :(20:03
harlowja*seems like the launchpad is restricted access only, unsure how to open from restricted20:03
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harlowjajlucci i think u did some stuff also20:04
jgriffithharlowja: sorry.. late as usual20:04
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harlowjajust going over anything we said was an action item from last week20:04
jlucciYeah, so starting on my first action item - abstracting out celery so user only sees taskflow task class20:04
harlowjaand there was a mini-meeting with heat people20:05
jlucciUsing .provides and .requires from your task annotations are coming in supah handy20:05
hemnaharlowja, did you want me to pull the patch and test again yet?20:05
harlowjahemna u can if u want, i'm still doing local testing (slowly but surely)20:05
harlowjaso all good stuff, i think the takeaway from the heat meeting, was that they have a little bit of the same stuff as taskflow and we should come up with a plan to figure out what goes where and how20:06
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harlowja*so more to dicsuss there i think20:06
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kebrayharlowja:  agreed.20:07
jlucciI've been talking with Randall on how to go about some of that20:07
harlowjaso thx jlucci !20:07
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harlowjait'd be nice to document that stuff, after it becomes less 'cloudy'20:08
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harlowjaso do we want to do a little round of what is everyone working on, would that be useful?20:09
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kebrayI have two things for when we get to "Open Topics".. just fyi.20:09
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harlowja#topic round-of-things-happening20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "round-of-things-happening (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:09
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harlowjaso i'm bringing up grizzly on y!s openstack vms, testing cinder stuff there, slowly making progress, getting some good code review feedback from jgriffith and others20:10
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harlowjaalso having to attend all there annoying internal meetings :-p20:11
harlowja*all these20:11
jgriffithhehe :)20:11
harlowjathats about what i am doing, working on since thats my setup tool of choice (i build that so have to use it)20:11
harlowja*built that*20:12
harlowjajlucci kchenweijie what have u guys been doing :-P20:12
harlowja*or anyone else doing stuff out there in the ether?20:12
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harlowjajlucci u look like the progressive insurance lady??20:13
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jlucciWrote up some documentation on the distributed approach to accompany the code/explain why distributed should be used20:13
jlucciYeah. That's totally my picture up there.20:13
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harlowjai knew it20:14
jlucciOther than that. Still working on test cases/fleshing out code. And then also abstracting out celery through the taskflow task class20:14
harlowjavery awesome20:14
jlucciYeah…people stop me in the street all the time. so annoying. :P20:14
harlowja*stop trying to buy insurance from me gosh darn it20:14
kchenweijiei guess its my turn now :P20:15
kebrayWell, I'll cover one of my Open Topics now:    harlowja, to build a little more on the conversation we were having yesterday about distributed execution engines for data-dependent control flows.  This paper describes some of the advantages in the intro:
kchenweijieor not xD20:15
kebraysorry kchenweijie.. I'm just piling on to jlucci's update.20:15
kchenweijieno problem20:15
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kebrayAnyway.. that's bedtime reading for later discussion.20:15
kebraywe can move on.20:16
harlowjai wonder what the 'thesis-uncorrected' was :-P20:16
harlowjacool kchenweijie what have u been up to20:16
harlowjakebray def something to read over :)20:16
kchenweijieive been working towards making the general api we discussed yesterday20:17
kchenweijieive made a basic template for what each backend api should be able to do and im working towards making the current sqlalchemy api match that20:17
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kchenweijieright now, i only have the persistence portion of the full api, but i want to make sure this works before i continue20:17
harlowjamakes sense to me20:18
kchenweijiethats it for me20:18
harlowjajgriffith this will help provide the persistance layer for tasks that can be pretty nice for future awesomeness in cinder20:18
harlowja*and elsewhere*20:18
harlowjait will be a key part of everything in the futurei  hope :)20:18
harlowjano pressure kchenweijie  ;)20:19
kchenweijiei got this.20:19
jgriffiththanks for explanation20:19
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harlowjaok, well all great stuff, i think everyone is pretty heads down, any other folk from att or nttdata around, i think they might be working on some stuff also20:19
harlowja#action harlowja  follow up with them offline20:20
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harlowjaso before open discussion, maybe have our honored guest jgriffith and us can discuss about cinder stuff20:21
harlowja#topic cinder-steps20:21
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harlowjahear ye hear ye20:21
jgriffithSo I think things are looking good20:21
jgriffiththis is going to help a ton20:21
jgriffithmy only concern up to this point is some of the complications it introduces WRT debug20:21
jgriffithand getting everybody up to speed on the new task-flows20:21
jgriffithI think it's worth the investment however...20:22
jgriffithI'm most anxious to see what take up is lookign like in other projects :)20:22
harlowjaso the debug one, i can see what u mean there, initially i think the way it will work (without the persistance part) will be pretty similar to the current way of working20:22
hemnait's pretty complicated to use IMO20:22
jlucciWhat makes it complicated for you hemna?20:23
harlowjaalso jgriffith i think we can address the 'up to speed' part somehow, documentation maybe, not exactly sure20:23
harlowjaand hemna how can we make it less complicated, at your service :(20:23
jgriffithharlowja: Yeah, that's a normal part of something new.. not a terribly big deal20:24
harlowja*oops thats :) not :(20:24
hemnawell I'm still trying to wrap my head around it20:24
kebrayharlowja, jgriffith, what do you all see as the path to getting another project to take dependency on TF?  I have "some" pull with reddwarf.20:24
jluccihaha Yeah. I second the let us know how to make it less complicated. :D20:24
hemnamaybe I'm just dumb :)20:24
jgriffithkebray: so I don't have any feelings on any project over another20:24
harlowjawe all dumb20:24
kebrayIf myself or adrian can do anything to help, totally willing to do so on getting other projects on board.20:24
jgriffithkebray: I just want to make sure it moves in to a common usage patters20:25
hemnaI'll go through the review again and see if I can come up with some constructive ideas20:25
harlowjathx hemna20:25
jgriffithand I think when it gets broader scope there will be better feed-back and it'll grow20:25
hemnaI haven't looked at it much in a few weeks due to my work I've been doing20:25
harlowjai think it likely has room for improvements hemna aas all new stuff does20:25
harlowjajgriffith agreed20:25
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jgriffithharlowja: I think to hemna 's point...20:25
hemnaI really think it's a great idea20:25
kebrayjgriffith:  ok, makes sense. We're working on a plan to pitch to the Heat team for integration there… not sure how successful we will be yet.. timing wise, I'm thinking we must do so by next summit.  I'd like to see harlowja give lot's of presentations and talks on TF at next summit :-)20:25
jgriffithharlowja: it's hard to pick out some of the things via the source at first (at least it was for me)20:26
harlowjaso kebray maybe reddwarf, maybe ironic, john garbutt from nova could there also, it depends on resourcing i think and who can devote time/energy to using it20:26
jgriffithI need to have a look at your seq diagrams again... that may help20:26
harlowjakebray lots of presentations, wow20:26
hemnaIt just was a bit hard to follow the logic in the review and understand the base concepts that require you to get first before the source makes sense.20:26
harlowjahemna understandable20:26
jgriffithkebray: haha!20:26
jgriffithkebray: keep signing up harlowja :)20:26
harlowjajgriffith hemna so i think both of those are the initial 'head-wrapping' problems20:27
harlowja*i think*20:27
jgriffithharlowja: I think you're correct20:27
harlowjalikely we can provide some small examples that help that20:27
kebrayjlucci volunteered to go to Hong Kong.  I'll have better luck signing her up for stuff no doubt.20:27
harlowjathat would make sense20:27
hemnait's a stumbling block for me20:27
jgriffithharlowja: kebray any feedback/interest from Nova, Glance ?20:27
harlowjaso glance, i haven't been in touch with them that much20:28
jgriffithor are they awaiting conductor?20:28
jlucciI got this kebray. You know you want to send me. ;p20:28
kebrayJohn Garbutt(sp?)  has successfully refactored some stuff in Nova in preparation for being able to pull in TF library in the future.20:28
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harlowjajgriffith i think nova is starting to get some of the taskflow concepts, but slowly getting it20:28
kchenweijieman, wish i had these opportunities to travel :P20:28
jgriffithharlowja: got ya20:28
kebrayI'm watching the Nova blueprint on that to see how it progresses… so far it's looking good.20:28
hemnawe aren't sure about HongKong either....still trying to twist mgmt's arm to get one of us go20:28
harlowjafor example20:29
harlowjaare very similar to our tasks, but from what i feel, its a little bit of a fight to even get that in, so taskflow ontop of that might have to wait a little20:29
jgriffithI see... some prep work there :)20:29
harlowjai think so20:29
harlowja*slowly but surely i think*20:30
jgriffithOh... there, that helps20:30
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harlowjai've been in contact with john g (the other john g) and keeping in contact20:30
jgriffithSo my only concern was that we'd have something unique in Cinder20:30
jgriffithSometimes that's ok20:30
harlowjanot as far as i can tell20:30
jgriffithespecially if it's better :)20:30
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jgriffithbut just wanted to check on the project wide effort20:31
harlowjaits a valid concern20:31
harlowja#action harlowja create little taskflow examples (not in unit tests, maybe in source tree or something)20:31
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kebrayI think we all want this to be widely adopted.  Need to work together to keep evangelizing this all over the place.20:31
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kebrayAnd, I of course want to spin out a new service on top of it, Convection.20:32
kebrayIt's a gab in the community's portfolio IMO.20:32
hemnabetter than a scab!20:33
harlowjawould u guys think that a little wiki that lists the status/developments in each core project might help?20:34
harlowja*nothing major*20:34
hemnayah I think so20:34
harlowjaany volunteers ;)20:34
kebraycan't hurt.20:34
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harlowja#action harlowja make little cross-project-status wiki20:35
jlucciI'm thinking we could create a general TaskFlow wiki20:35
harlowjacould could20:35
jlucciSub-wikis being different types of patterns20:36
jlucci(linear, distributed, etc)20:36
harlowja+examples and descriptions?20:36
jlucciWith use cases for each pattern20:36
harlowjathat might help hemna and jgriffith20:36
harlowjagood idea jlucci20:36
jlucciLots of pretty pictures too. :D20:36
harlowjau need to get omnigraffle then :-p20:36
harlowjaand then become architect20:36
hemnayah I think that would help a lot20:36
jlucciBut then we could add that cross-project-status on there too20:36
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harlowjajlucci do u want to start said wiki?? ;)20:37
jlucciJust throwing this out there again… …already has some examples on there20:37
kebrayI'm still not convinced why linear / distributed need to be differentiated.  There is an ordering to execution in both task-dependent-execution and data-driven-execution.20:37
jluccio. O20:37
harlowjasure kebray agreed20:37
kebrayYou can execute linear task flows using a distributed engine.20:37
jlucciEr, I guess linear wasn't the best word there. The traditional workflow patterns are different from a distributed approach20:37
jlucciSo those should get a separate explanation from distributed20:38
harlowjaand how it operates slightly differently and all that20:38
harlowjaso lets do that, i can make it along with the other wikis20:38
kebrayIt's an "under-the-hood" operational difference, no?   I'm not sure why the top-of-the hood would be painted any different colors.20:38
harlowjalol, as long as u buy insurance from jlucci20:39
hemnapulled the latest patch set down....20:39
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harlowjathx, i'm reworking a little bit of it due to the reviews comments20:39
harlowja*but not that much*20:39
jluccihaha You're right kebray. Examples would be the same on-top-of-the-hood20:40
harlowja#action harlowja make base-wiki20:40
jlucciFigured it would be nice to explain the under-the-hoods workings too20:40
harlowjaagreed, lets work on that, i think it will be very useful for all20:40
harlowjaespecially going forward20:40
harlowja*more people will wonder about this and such20:41
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kebrayIf the top-of-the-hood is the same, I'd like to see us align efforts on the under-the-hood if possible. Seems silly to put effort into two different backends that get us the same thing on the front end.. if one approach is better than the other, let's debate and resolve.20:41
harlowjawell its only silly if u can get everyone to use the under-the-hood engine at the current time20:41
hemnaharlowja, fwiw, looks like you need to rebase20:41
harlowjahemna hmmm, durn20:41
harlowjawill do that20:42
harlowjaso lets open up for anything else20:42
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harlowja#topic open-discuss20:42
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kebrayharlowja I guess I'm assuming what everyone else cares about is the front end and results… not the underlying mechanics unless they have to debug the library because its' broken.. but, that should weigh in to our decision on which under-the-hood implementation to go with.20:42
harlowjawell its also the support structure the under-the-hood involves right20:43
kebrayI'm also concerned that, if we go traditional workflow pattern route, that we're reinventing spiff.20:43
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kebrayUnless we use spiff of course.20:43
harlowjai think we already surpassed what spiff is calable of20:43
harlowja*capable of20:43
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hemnahey, volume create worked this time :)20:43
kebrayyeah?   you have documentation on that?  might be a good think to add to the wiki ;-)20:43
hemnaas did delete20:44
kebraygo harlowja!   rock on!20:44
harlowjasource code feature analysis by me looking at it, lol20:44
harlowjathats my docs, haha, but sure i can document20:44
jlucciYeah, I've been meaning to go research differences between spiff/current implementation20:44
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jlucciIf that's something you wanted to do harlowja, that'd be awesome. If not, I volunteer myself to go check it out. :P20:45
harlowjaspiff has more of a way to read in workflows from backing files20:45
harlowjaotherwise i think we are beyond what spiff can do20:45
kebrayI'm just imagining the push back we'll get from the community.. would like to proactively document our choices and rational as we go… not because I want to mitigate questions without knowing what questions we will get, but because I care about being able to articulate why we made the choices we've made.20:45
harlowja#action harlowja jlucci spiff document comparison20:45
harlowjakebray 100% agree20:45
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harlowjaso i think this proactive documenation goes back into the wiki thing20:47
kebrayok, last open topic from me:   just want to ask how ya'll are currently governing the code commits.  I'm hoping ya'll get more code contributors soon.  I think it's primarily just harlowja, jloucci, and kevinXYX (too long an IRC name) contributing right now.. what does it take to get code into trunk, two +1's?   who is core?20:47
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kebrayAnd, is the process working for ya'll?  If so, awesome, we can move on.  If not, let's discuss.20:48
jlucciUmmm. It's mostly been a "Hey, harlowja, this look good?" type of thing20:48
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harlowjathe core reviewers is jlucci and me and devananda and hemna  i think20:48
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harlowjaif anyone wants to review that'd be cool20:49
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harlowjai think the governing is just pretty normal, review stuff when u get time20:49
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harlowjai started turning on the unit tests in jenkins and such20:49
kebrayk.. I'm not hearing requests for change.. so, sounds like the process if working.  that's good :-)20:49
kebrayis working.20:50
harlowjaits a WIP i think20:50
harlowjaso we'll have testing being activated soon20:50
harlowja*after i fix that*20:50
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harlowjait does bring a good other topic up20:51
harlowjawhen should we aim for something on pypi?20:51
harlowjalikely we'll need that before cinder can offically use it20:52
kebraywould that be a question for J G.?20:52
harlowjaand have it appear in openstack-requirements and such20:52
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* harlowja not sure what the current process for new dependencies is20:52
jgriffithharlowja: kebray I wouldn't worry about that just yet personally20:52
jgriffithmy strategy so far on stuff like this has been copy/paste20:53
jgriffithget it all sorted then move to pypi20:53
jgriffithI'm doing the same thing with brick20:53
jgriffithand who knows, maybe it'll end up in OSLO :)20:53
harlowjakk, thx jgriffith20:53
kebrayyes, thx jgriffith20:53
jgriffithjust my 2 cents20:53
jgriffithkebray: haha... by J G you meant releses perhaps, not John G :)20:54
kebrayno, I meant jgriffith.20:54
jgriffithOh... Good :)20:54
harlowjato many JGs ;)20:54
jgriffiththen I don't feel dumb :)20:54
harlowjakebray did u want to talk about the data/task/information depenedency stuff, or is that still brewing in the brain20:55
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kebrayI do, but not enough time left I don't think.20:55
jlucciWe could move that discussion over to the taskflow irc?20:55
harlowja!_Pipes might be something u are interested in :-P20:56
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kebrayMy encouragement is we target one backend first if the results on the front end are the same… I have good reason for wanting to back distributed-data-dependent execution.20:56
kebrayI think jlucci and I can get our thoughts out on wiki (as she has already done)… and, circulate for further disucssion.20:56
harlowjaalright sounds good folks, lots to still do :)20:56
kebrayI gotta run to another quick meeting. will circle back around on this topic soon.20:57
harlowjakk and we are almost out of time20:57
harlowjafor those that want to talk to us more, #openstack-state-management20:57
harlowjathanks for all helping make this happen :)20:57
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harlowjasmiley face stickers for all20:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings ||"20:58
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun 13 20:58:19 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:58
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driptonno Nova meeting today, in case anyone didn't see Russell's email21:03
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n0anonow they tell me :-)21:04
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evgenyreed, fitoria: hello we'll show the search on ask-staging.openstack.org23:08
evgenyreed: fitoria - is Adolfo he was working on the feature23:09
reedevgeny, /join #openstack-community23:09
reednot sure this channel is available now23:09
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