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| n0ano | #startmeeting scheduler | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| n0ano | #startmeeting | 15:00 |
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| openstack | n0ano: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 15:00 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting scheduler | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 23 15:00:53 2013 UTC. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scheduler' | 15:00 |
| * n0ano can't type this morning | 15:01 | |
| n0ano | anyone here for the scheduler meeting? | 15:01 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:01 |
| jgallard | hi! | 15:01 |
| PaulMurray | I'm here for scheduler | 15:01 |
| PaulMurray | hi | 15:01 |
| alaski | here, but multitasking unfortunately | 15:02 |
| jog0 | o/ | 15:02 |
| n0ano | alaski, NP, we just give you all the actions, you can't defend :-) | 15:02 |
| alaski | :) | 15:03 |
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| n0ano | we have some potentially contentious issues today, let's get started | 15:03 |
| n0ano | #topic ceilometer vs. nova metric collector | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ceilometer vs. nova metric collector (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:03 | |
| n0ano | I don't know if the thread on the dev list has bottomed out on this, I still think it makes sense to extend the current scheduler and not rely exclusively on ceilometer | 15:04 |
| PaulMurray | I was in that thread | 15:04 |
| PaulMurray | There are two issues for me | 15:05 |
| PaulMurray | I am working on network aware scheduling | 15:05 |
| alaski | I like the idea of using ceilometer, but agree that it can be a future thing. I think it makes sense to share a lib if possible, and make sure we get an api that will work for both. | 15:05 |
| PaulMurray | which is not the same as the analytical kind of stuff | 15:05 |
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| n0ano | alaski, +1 | 15:05 |
| jog0 | perhaps we can get a joint ceilometer nova session at teh summit on this | 15:06 |
| glikson | hi | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | jog0, we should, I just don't want development to stop waiting for the next summit | 15:06 |
| jog0 | agreed, from the ML thread it sounded like everyone thought a non-ceilometer mode made sense | 15:07 |
| PaulMurray | agreed | 15:07 |
| n0ano | note I have a slightly vested interest, my group is working on these changes to the scheduler but obviously we think that's the right way to go. | 15:07 |
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| jog0 | and at teh summit we can re-evaluate where that line is and how the two projects could work together | 15:07 |
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| jog0 | n0ano: not sure what happened to it but there as top level sheduler idea once so nova and cinder have one scheduler | 15:08 |
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| n0ano | I'm hearing concensus here - extend the scheduler for now, have a joint session at the summit with scheduler & ceilometer to see intersections | 15:09 |
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| n0ano | jog0, I haven't seen that, do you think there was a BP about it? | 15:10 |
| PaulMurray | I agree | 15:10 |
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| alaski | n0ano: +1 | 15:10 |
| jog0 | n0ano: don't remember now it was an idea that floated around for a while | 15:10 |
| PaulMurray | To some extent | 15:10 |
| alaski | I don't think there was a bp about it, but I rememeber the joint scheduler talk | 15:10 |
| glikson | yep. there was a session on this in the last summit, and noone seemed to interested to work on ceilometer integration.. | 15:10 |
| PaulMurray | Can I ask what you mean by extend the scheduler in thsi case | 15:11 |
| jog0 | n0ano: I think timing wise getting any major scheduler extensions in H3 will be hard so they need to be proposed ASAP | 15:11 |
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| n0ano | glikson, sigh, I guess we'll try again in Hong Kong | 15:11 |
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| n0ano | PaulMurray, we're talking about the ability to add plugins to provide extra scheduling info | 15:12 |
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| PaulMurray | n0ano thanks, the question I have is | 15:12 |
| jgallard | jog0, it was https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/oslo-scheduler ? | 15:12 |
| jog0 | n0ano: the generic ability to do so easier then currently? | 15:12 |
| PaulMurray | about the resoruce consumption part | 15:12 |
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| n0ano | jog0, yes, that's the idea | 15:13 |
| jog0 | jgallard:that was different that was different schedulers but dedup code base | 15:13 |
| PaulMurray | Do you see a need for the scheduler and compute nodes to ccheck resoruce consumption | 15:13 |
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| PaulMurray | as the claims do for example | 15:13 |
| PaulMurray | That part was missing for me | 15:13 |
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| n0ano | PaulMurray, what do you mean by `check` | 15:13 |
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| PaulMurray | I want to do the same as say ram_mb, free_ram_mb, ram_mb_used | 15:14 |
| PaulMurray | the comupte node makes sure it has capacity - it doesn't jsut accept instances | 15:14 |
| PaulMurray | the scheduler also updates hoststate | 15:14 |
| jog0 | PaulMurray: I think you are hitting on one of the main complaints people have today | 15:14 |
| PaulMurray | what is your opinion? | 15:14 |
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| llu-laptop | PaulMurray: Have you seen my reply to your concern in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/35764/. The main problem is that we need to have a way to tell scheduler which kind of resource will be consumed, and how much for each instance | 15:15 |
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| n0ano | I'm still confused, to me it's simple, compute node report their resource capabilities to the scheduler and then the scheduler makes decisions based upon that | 15:15 |
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| jog0 | n0ano: and you need to add that logic all over the code base | 15:16 |
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| n0ano | I don't like the idea of duplicating the scheduler work in the compute nodes | 15:16 |
| jog0 | resulting in a complex change to supportnew resoure tracking | 15:17 |
| PaulMurray | n0ano that is the way it is now for static allocations | 15:17 |
| llu-laptop | n0ano: PaulMurry is talking about the resources like free_mem, which is touched by both scheduler and compute node in consumption | 15:17 |
| jog0 | n0ano: we do that now, with the retry logic | 15:17 |
| n0ano | jog0, should be simple, a plugin for the compute node to report new usage info, a filter plugin for the scheduler to use that info. | 15:17 |
| PaulMurray | n0ano - exactly my thinking | 15:17 |
| jog0 | and DB update, and resource tracker | 15:18 |
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| Alexei_987 | jog0: you should also consider algorithm efficiency - it's already quite slow and will become even slower if we use such approach | 15:18 |
| jog0 | Alexei_987: that is a different discussion IMHO | 15:19 |
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| n0ano | jog0, I've never understood the retry logic but the DB should only be updated by the compute node so where's the overlap? | 15:19 |
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| jog0 | n0ano: the reyry logic is to handle race conditiosn in scheduling | 15:19 |
| jog0 | where scheduler sends instance to a node that cannot handle it | 15:19 |
| PaulMurray | n0ano - the retry logic works with multiple schedulers as well as just the asynchrony | 15:19 |
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| PaulMurray | A scheduler can be wrong about what is out there | 15:20 |
| jog0 | node checks the requirments and if it cannot run the node it reschedules | 15:20 |
| jog0 | so we already have scheduling code on compute nodes | 15:20 |
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| n0ano | jog0, scheduling code on the compute node - that just seems wrong, should the compute node fail the start request and then the scheduler should try again | 15:21 |
| n0ano | s/should/shouldn't | 15:21 |
| glikson | jog0: if I understand correctly, you are suggesting that nova-compute will double-check that it can accept the request instead of just passing it down to the hypervisor? | 15:21 |
| jog0 | n0ano: I am not suggesting anything, just stating current status | 15:21 |
| PaulMurray | the compute node is ultimately in control of what it can do | 15:22 |
| jog0 | PaulMurray: exactly | 15:22 |
| PaulMurray | that is a sound relaibility control if nothing else | 15:22 |
| PaulMurray | other services can be wrong about the state of the world | 15:22 |
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| n0ano | jog0, indeed, I'm thinking that's an area that needs to be looked at again, the current implementation seems wrong | 15:22 |
| PaulMurray | possibly due to failure | 15:22 |
| jog0 | n0ano: we are way off topic now | 15:23 |
| jog0 | lets keep the meeting on topic | 15:23 |
| jog0 | we finished the ceilometer vs nova discussion | 15:23 |
| jog0 | then this turned into simple plugin discussion | 15:23 |
| n0ano | someone should slap the moderator to keep things in line :-) | 15:23 |
| n0ano | yes, let's move on | 15:24 |
| n0ano | #agreed extend the scheduler for now, have a joint session at the summit with scheduler & ceilometer to see intersections | 15:24 |
| n0ano | #topic a simple way to improve nova scheduler | 15:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "a simple way to improve nova scheduler (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:24 | |
| PaulMurray | Is this the no db one | 15:24 |
| PaulMurray | ? | 15:24 |
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| n0ano | this to me is back to something we talked about weeks ago, DB update vs. fan out messages | 15:25 |
| jog0 | fan out == bad IMHO, sounsd like snooping vs directory for cache coherence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cache_coherence#Cache_coherence_mechanisms | 15:25 |
| jog0 | that being said we need more numbers to understand this | 15:26 |
| n0ano | jog0, not sure about the concern | 15:26 |
| alaski | I'm going to quickly jump in for the last topic and say that I'm working to remove retry logic from computes, and move it to conductor. But otherwise everything that was said stands. | 15:26 |
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| PaulMurray | I have built virtual infrastructures that work the "fan-out" way | 15:27 |
| jog0 | alaski: -- doing scheduling validation anywhere but compute node raises the risk of race conditions | 15:27 |
| n0ano | one problem I have is, currently, the compute nodes update the DB and also send a fan out message so we're doing both | 15:27 |
| jog0 | PaulMurray: sure fan-out broadcasts can work but at some point the fall over | 15:28 |
| jog0 | n0ano: agreed my vote is kill fanout | 15:28 |
| PaulMurray | jog0 well - I was going to say | 15:28 |
| alaski | jog0: compute still validates, but it's at the request of the conductor before sending the build there. | 15:28 |
| jog0 | there was a ML thread about it a few weeks back | 15:28 |
| PaulMurray | that there are a lot of good arguments for the db approach | 15:28 |
| n0ano | jog0, and I would vote to kill the DB | 15:28 |
| alaski | agree on killing fanout | 15:28 |
| jog0 | alaski: why? | 15:28 |
| n0ano | but at least we agree that one of them needs to be killed | 15:28 |
| jog0 | broadcast to scheduler means we are sending tons of duplicate data | 15:29 |
| jog0 | and if we overload one scheduler thread with updates they all overload | 15:30 |
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| PaulMurray | jog0 we must be using different protocols | 15:30 |
| PaulMurray | that didn't happen for us | 15:30 |
| n0ano | well, I would also like to remove the periodic update and only send messages when state on the compute node changes | 15:30 |
| PaulMurray | the problems we had are more to do with tooling | 15:30 |
| jog0 | we distribute the load by multiplying it by number ofschedulers | 15:30 |
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| PaulMurray | db is easy to inspect and debug - big in production env | 15:30 |
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| alaski | jog0: to centralize scheduling logic for later taskflow work. but it's getting confusing to have this conversation in the middle of another. | 15:30 |
| Alexei_987 | jog0: the problem with such approach is that we cannot distibute DB | 15:31 |
| jog0 | n0ano: as the meeting chair which conversation? no db and return to alaski | 15:31 |
| n0ano | alaski, jog0 - yes, let's try and conentrate on the DB vs. fanout for now | 15:31 |
| n0ano | we can take up the retry issues later | 15:31 |
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| jog0 | Alexei_987: can you clarify | 15:32 |
| Alexei_987 | jog0: for each scheduling request we read data about ALL compute node + we do 2 table joins | 15:32 |
| Alexei_987 | jog0: such solution won't scale if one DB server won't be able to handle the load | 15:32 |
| jog0 | Alexei_987: so you are making a big assumption here: that we cannot cahnge how we use the DB | 15:33 |
| jog0 | but we can | 15:33 |
| jog0 | we don't have to do two joins or read all compute nodes | 15:33 |
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| Alexei_987 | jog0: how can we read info from DB without them? | 15:33 |
| jog0 | them? | 15:34 |
| Alexei_987 | jog0: we need to read all data cause we do filtering and weig | 15:34 |
| jog0 | Alexei_987: we can do some filtering in DB | 15:34 |
| Alexei_987 | jog0: sorry.. we do filtering in python code | 15:34 |
| jog0 | once again you are assuming we cannto change the basic scheduling logic | 15:34 |
| Alexei_987 | jog0: do you have a proposition how can we improve that? | 15:35 |
| n0ano | let's reset, seems to be agreement that the current DB usage is a scalability problem... | 15:35 |
| PaulMurray | agreed +556 | 15:35 |
| Alexei_987 | agreed | 15:35 |
| n0ano | we can solve the problem by removing the DB access or coming up with a way to make the DB access more scalable | 15:35 |
| jog0 | dont agree fullu | 15:36 |
| jog0 | n0ano: the issue IMHO is the current scheduler doesn't scale | 15:36 |
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| alaski | And from the other side, many of us feel that fanouts and RPC traffic are a scalability problem. | 15:36 |
| jog0 | as validated by bluehost | 15:36 |
| n0ano | jog0, I believe bluehost was hit by the periodic update, remove that and their problems will potentially be much easier | 15:37 |
| jog0 | n0ano: yes, that IMHO is step 1 | 15:37 |
| jog0 | either way we want to do that | 15:37 |
| n0ano | note, removing the periodic update is independent of DB vs. fanout | 15:37 |
| jog0 | n0ano: right | 15:37 |
| boris-42 | n0ano +1 | 15:38 |
| boris-42 | I don't see any reason to keep data in DB | 15:38 |
| n0ano | so do we have agreement that removing the periodic update is the first thing that has to go? | 15:38 |
| boris-42 | RPC is much faster then DB any way | 15:38 |
| jog0 | well mostly, thigns get funny if you do RPC casts to scheduler instead of dB and assume you can loose a msg | 15:38 |
| boris-42 | and what about DB | 15:38 |
| boris-42 | we are working through RPC | 15:38 |
| boris-42 | and we are able to lost msg | 15:39 |
| boris-42 | also | 15:39 |
| boris-42 | and our compute node won't be updated | 15:39 |
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| boris-42 | we are trying to imagine new problems | 15:39 |
| jog0 | call vs cast.a nd conductor is optional | 15:39 |
| boris-42 | when we have already real problems | 15:39 |
| jog0 | boris-42: slow down, we are taking baby steps here | 15:39 |
| boris-42 | =) | 15:40 |
| boris-42 | why we are not able to remove DB use RPC (and then try to find better then RPC method) | 15:40 |
| jog0 | IMHO after removing periodic update the next step is to better quantify the next scalling limits | 15:40 |
| jog0 | and get good numbers on potential solutions | 15:40 |
| PaulMurray | Can I jump in here | 15:40 |
| boris-42 | jog0 go in nova? | 15:41 |
| jog0 | PaulMurray: please | 15:41 |
| PaulMurray | We need to keep an eye on production | 15:41 |
| n0ano | jog0, indeed, I think the periodic update is swamping scalability so much we need to remove it and then measure things | 15:41 |
| PaulMurray | as well as simple performance | 15:41 |
| PaulMurray | performance is a big deal | 15:41 |
| PaulMurray | and scalability | 15:41 |
| PaulMurray | but right now we have tooling that | 15:41 |
| PaulMurray | allows us to inspect what is going on | 15:41 |
| PaulMurray | I am all for a change | 15:41 |
| PaulMurray | but we need to make sure we do it with | 15:42 |
| PaulMurray | security, reliability, ha, | 15:42 |
| PaulMurray | and debuggability (if thats a word) | 15:42 |
| PaulMurray | in mind | 15:42 |
| jog0 | PaulMurray: ++ | 15:42 |
| PaulMurray | So what ever | 15:42 |
| n0ano | PaulMurray, I like your thought process | 15:42 |
| PaulMurray | small change we make to start removing the databased | 15:43 |
| PaulMurray | (if that is what we do) | 15:43 |
| PaulMurray | must allow all these | 15:43 |
| n0ano | but I think your concerns are addressable even if we remove the DB | 15:43 |
| PaulMurray | I agree | 15:43 |
| PaulMurray | But it is more complex | 15:43 |
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| PaulMurray | Not undoable - jsut a bigger step than it seems | 15:44 |
| PaulMurray | Sorry - didnt' mean to kill the dicussion | 15:44 |
| PaulMurray | :( | 15:44 |
| n0ano | basically, the `simple` should be removed from the topic :-) | 15:44 |
| PaulMurray | :) | 15:44 |
| n0ano | PaulMurray, no, reality check is always good | 15:45 |
| Alexei_987 | I propose to start with doing clear diagrams of existing scheduling process | 15:45 |
| n0ano | are we exhausted over this discussion for now, still room for thought on the mailing list | 15:46 |
| Alexei_987 | to get better understanding of the flow and how it can be improved | 15:46 |
| glikson | sounds like a good topic for the upcoming summit :-) | 15:46 |
| boris-42 | =) | 15:46 |
| n0ano | Alexei_987, I want to do that it's just I've been mired in unrelated stuff so far | 15:46 |
| boris-42 | Also we should just compare 2 approaches in numbers DB vs RPC | 15:47 |
| jog0 | n0ano: we ahve one action item from this | 15:47 |
| jog0 | err two | 15:47 |
| jog0 | someone kill periodic update | 15:47 |
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| boris-42 | jog0 periodic updates are not problem | 15:47 |
| glikson | seems that there is no consensus at the moment regarding both "simple" and "improve" about the proposed method.. | 15:47 |
| boris-42 | jog0 so big problem | 15:47 |
| n0ano | #action kill the periodic update (even if just for scalability measurements) | 15:47 |
| jog0 | and this one while we are at it (https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1178008) | 15:47 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1178008 in nova "publish_service_capabilities does a fanout to all nova-compute" [Undecided,Triaged] | 15:47 |
| jog0 | boris-42: see aboive | 15:48 |
| n0ano | #action analyze the `current` scheduler | 15:48 |
| jog0 | and the other action item is get better numbers on boris-42 proposal along with how to reproduce the results | 15:48 |
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| jog0 | numbers on current scheduler along with proposal | 15:49 |
| n0ano | jog0, which numbers, the DB access or scheduler overhead | 15:49 |
| boris-42 | devananda pls | 15:49 |
| jog0 | n0ano: all and any that will help us decide | 15:49 |
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| boris-42 | devananda could you say something about JOINs?) | 15:49 |
| boris-42 | =) | 15:50 |
| jog0 | boris-42: see above ^. | 15:50 |
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| boris-42 | what should I see, I don't understand | 15:50 |
| llu-laptop | just want to be more clear, is the 'kill the periodic update' the same thing as the bug jog0 mentioned? | 15:50 |
| boris-42 | IMHO | 15:50 |
| boris-42 | periodic task are not our problem in this moment | 15:50 |
| jog0 | llu-laptop: not exactly they are related though | 15:51 |
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| boris-42 | revmoving or not removing we will have the same situation +- | 15:51 |
| n0ano | boris-42, I believe they are a problem in that they are swamping scalabity measurements | 15:51 |
| boris-42 | nano they will be the next problem when we remove JOIN | 15:52 |
| llu-laptop | I think boris-42 problem is the DB joinload, right? | 15:52 |
| boris-42 | llu-laptop yes | 15:52 |
| boris-42 | JOINs are always problem | 15:52 |
| jog0 | sure one issue at a time | 15:52 |
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| boris-42 | jog0 priority is important thing | 15:53 |
| n0ano | jog0, +1 | 15:53 |
| boris-42 | jog0 JOIN has critical priority | 15:53 |
| boris-42 | jog0 periodic_task low | 15:53 |
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| n0ano | boris-42, note that bluehost show significant scalabiity issues that we are pretty sure are related to the periodic updates so they couldn't even look at the join issue | 15:53 |
| jog0 | boris-42: but join wont be fixed before Icehouse it too late | 15:54 |
| jog0 | n0ano: exactly | 15:54 |
| llu-laptop | Is there any bp about the 'killing periodic update' thing? | 15:55 |
| n0ano | no, but I'd be willing to create one | 15:55 |
| boris-42 | llu-laptom I think that it is too late for such changes | 15:55 |
| boris-42 | imho | 15:55 |
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| boris-42 | it is much worse then remove join | 15:56 |
| boris-42 | because we are changing behavior | 15:56 |
| n0ano | well, for havanna it's too late but there's always icehouse | 15:56 |
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| n0ano | of course, I think it too late to change the join for havanna also | 15:56 |
| ogelbukh | does nova-compute updates state on provision/deprovision? | 15:56 |
| n0ano | ogelbukh, yes (the DB) and it also does the periodic update | 15:57 |
| ogelbukh | n0ano: thanks | 15:57 |
| jog0 | n0ano: it shouldn't be a big change http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-June/010485.html | 15:57 |
| jog0 | the periodic update is hardly used right now | 15:58 |
| n0ano | #action n0ano to create BP to remove the periodic update | 15:58 |
| ogelbukh | so, only service state basically gets lost if periodic updates just dropped? | 15:58 |
| ogelbukh | well | 15:58 |
| ogelbukh | not lost | 15:58 |
| jog0 | ogelbukh: service state? that is seperate | 15:58 |
| ogelbukh | ok | 15:59 |
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| n0ano | ogelbukh, we need to consider things like lost messages, new compute nodes, restarted compute nodes - the end cases are alway the problem. | 15:59 |
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| PaulMurray | n0ano doesn't the stats reporting introduce more if it is added? | 15:59 |
| ogelbukh | n0ano: sure, just trying to get my head around this | 15:59 |
| boris-42 | jog0 | 15:59 |
| n0ano | hey guys, it's the top of the hour and I have to run, great meeting (we missed one topic but there's always next week) | 15:59 |
| boris-42 | jog0 One question | 16:00 |
| boris-42 | jog0 If we remove DB, but keep periodic_task. And it will work good on 10k or 30k nodes | 16:00 |
| n0ano | PaulMurray, it's already there (we're doing a lot of extra work right now) | 16:00 |
| boris-42 | jog0 experimatnal hosts | 16:00 |
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| boris-42 | jog0 will you change priority of removing periodic_task | 16:00 |
| boris-42 | ?) | 16:00 |
| PaulMurray | good speaking to you all | 16:00 |
| n0ano | sorry but I have to run | 16:01 |
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| n0ano | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 23 16:01:09 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-07-23-15.00.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-07-23-15.00.txt | 16:01 |
| jog0 | boris-42: sure, we can even add it back in | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-07-23-15.00.log.html | 16:01 |
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| jog0 | if anyone wants to keep talking I will be in -nova | 16:02 |
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| henrynash | hi | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | hey | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| ayoung | Keystone !!!!! | 18:00 |
| spzala | Hi | 18:00 |
| dolphm | o/ | 18:00 |
| topol | Hello | 18:00 |
| dolphm | gyee: bknudson: poke | 18:00 |
| bknudson | K6e | 18:00 |
| fabio | Hi | 18:01 |
| gyee | \o | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 23 18:01:10 2013 UTC. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #topic Havana Milestone 3 | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana Milestone 3 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| dolphm | congrats on m2 everyone :) | 18:01 |
| ayoung | w00t | 18:01 |
| jamielennox | yay | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | i think that was one of the smoothest milestone releases in terms of bugs, etc, since like folsom | 18:02 |
| gyee | time for a vacation | 18:02 |
| dolphm | exactly! | 18:02 |
| dolphm | i'll be out beginning of next week lol | 18:02 |
| dolphm | m-w | 18:02 |
| ayoung | dolphm, that is cuz no other project was treating it as feature freeze and battling us for the commit queue | 18:02 |
| dolphm | and our new deadline is milestone-3 - september 4th | 18:03 |
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| stevemar | thought it was aug21? | 18:03 |
| dolphm | at that point, feature freeze for havana kicks in and then it bug fixing until summit | 18:03 |
| dolphm | err | 18:03 |
| dolphm | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | nothing is aug 21 | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | Well, actually it is my folks anniversary | 18:03 |
| henrynash | ayoung: congrats! | 18:04 |
| dolphm | nothing steve cares about is aug 21 | 18:04 |
| * ayoung ducks | 18:04 | |
| bknudson | that must be what stevemar was thinking of. | 18:04 |
| stevemar | i might care about ayoung folks?! | 18:04 |
| dolphm | i mean, i'll be there if there's food | 18:04 |
| gyee | me 2 | 18:04 |
| stevemar | nvm, i was looking at the dev list, it was nova related | 18:04 |
| stevemar | whoops | 18:04 |
| bknudson | nova's got their own problems. | 18:05 |
| dolphm | cool | 18:05 |
| dolphm | #topic High priority bugs or immediate issues? | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "High priority bugs or immediate issues? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| henrynash | one thing - could someone send me some guidance on doing a stable/grizzly patch? | 18:06 |
| dolphm | henrynash: sure, ping me after | 18:06 |
| bknudson | git cherry-pick | 18:06 |
| ayoung | bknudson, only if he's lucky | 18:06 |
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| henrynash | dolphm, bknudson: thx | 18:06 |
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| dolphm | i'm assuming there's no major public issues, bugs have been quiet | 18:06 |
| ayoung | none that I am aware of | 18:07 |
| bknudson | no security reports lately! | 18:07 |
| dolphm | okay, so from the off-list mail thread... | 18:07 |
| dolphm | #topic Identity API v3.1 | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Identity API v3.1 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:07 | |
| dolphm | is now final, as of havana-m2 | 18:07 |
| dolphm | which means any changes proposed against the core api should be marked v3.2, and implemented in icehouse | 18:07 |
| bknudson | the docs just need to match the code | 18:07 |
| dolphm | or, merged in icehouse | 18:07 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I assume that means that the focus is going to change to extensions until then | 18:08 |
| bknudson | what about 4.0? | 18:08 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ideally, the focus should be on stability | 18:08 |
| henrynash | bknudson: yep, we're getting there: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37000/ (but not done yet) | 18:08 |
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| gyee | dolphm, and performance? | 18:08 |
| dolphm | bknudson: if we have a reason to introduce major backwards incompatibilities to the api we'll have to bump to v4.0 | 18:09 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I meant that new features should get implemented as extensions, and they can become core later | 18:09 |
| dolphm | bknudson: but other than fixing bad status codes and stuff, i don't see a viable reason to do a major version bump | 18:09 |
| topol | yay stability | 18:09 |
| ayoung | I think termie has already claimed 5.0 for himself | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | and then straight from the agenda- "API-impacting changes must be disabled by default (as optional middleware) or be limited to backwards-compatible bug fixes" | 18:10 |
| ayoung | so, that should probably include SQL migrations | 18:10 |
| dolphm | i know henrynash said he had some points he wanted clarified .. henrynash? | 18:10 |
| bknudson | do 3.1 extensions turn into core 3.2? | 18:10 |
| dolphm | bknudson: not necessarily | 18:10 |
| dolphm | bknudson: if we see 100% of deployments enabling an extension and fussing over why it's not core, then it should become core | 18:11 |
| henrynash | dolphm: it was the phrase "no new methods for core APIs"…or something like that in ayoung's proposed email | 18:11 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I'd say it is more likely that nothing big can become core from here on out without being an extension first | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | having more things as extensions permanently makes sense to me | 18:11 |
| topol | ayoung, why? | 18:11 |
| henrynash | dolphm; are we saying we can't change the code inside a core API even if there is no API change? | 18:12 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I was distinguishing between changing the params or input data for a URL/method and adding a whole new URL or method to an existing URL | 18:12 |
| dolphm | the fundamental seperation between core and extensions is intended seperate portable, required and expected functionality and optional, deployment-specific features | 18:12 |
| dolphm | so, not everyone has a use case for domains, so domains could/should have been an extension | 18:12 |
| gyee | dolphm, I did implemented domains as extension once :) | 18:13 |
| dolphm | ayoung: both of those can be accomplished via extensions | 18:13 |
| gyee | in contrib | 18:13 |
| jamielennox | quick question, now that the api is at v3.1, is that supposed to be reflected in GET / ? | 18:13 |
| topol | intriguing, so dolphm you feel the common subset of what everyone needs has been reached??? | 18:13 |
| dolphm | gyee: yeah, i am glad it's a core concept though | 18:13 |
| ayoung | dolphm, exactly. That was what I was trying to convey in my email | 18:13 |
| dolphm | topol: i can't imagine that's the case lol | 18:13 |
| ayoung | topol, more like the intersection, which is effectively the empty set | 18:13 |
| topol | dolphm, thats how I interpreted your statement | 18:14 |
| dolphm | topol: there are like 3 resources in the v2.0 core spec, only because that's all we could agree on as 'required, expected functionality' | 18:14 |
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| dolphm | create token, list tenants, validate token | 18:14 |
| gyee | :) | 18:14 |
| ayoung | so, for extensions, we need to have separate migrations, which is the driving force behind this diff: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36731/ | 18:14 |
| ayoung | and that one needs alembic, which I have a WIP for | 18:15 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38295/ | 18:15 |
| topol | so for example storing credentials. If you decide to do more in that space it would not be core additions? | 18:15 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: yes... someone ran into a bug when they tried to change that though... i'll look around | 18:15 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so I'll be pedantic…in my policy/protection bp, I am technically changing the parameters to a core function (it's just not visible or exposed via a url) - see identity/controller.py in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38308/ | 18:15 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: this is kind of what I was concerned about | 18:16 |
| ayoung | henrynash, _check_protection? | 18:16 |
| dolphm | henrynash: what's a core function? | 18:16 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I think he means he is changing the policy enforcement for core functions | 18:16 |
| dolphm | i'm still not sure what a core function is | 18:17 |
| topol | do we have a picture that shows what is declared core and what are extensions? | 18:17 |
| ayoung | so ones that would have succeeded in the past would now fail a lociy check, or vice versa | 18:17 |
| dolphm | topol: you mean like a diagram with pie charts and puppies? | 18:17 |
| topol | when I see the 3.1 API I think all of that is core | 18:17 |
| henrynash | young, dolphm: and pass an extra parameter into, say, get_user() - see line 611 | 18:17 |
| ayoung | dolphm a core function is a function of a controller that maps to a public URL | 18:17 |
| topol | dolphm, core list on the left, extensions on the right :-) | 18:18 |
| dolphm | topol: this defines core https://github.com/openstack/identity-api/blob/master/openstack-identity-api/v3/src/markdown/identity-api-v3.md | 18:18 |
| gyee | henrynash, you changing the query string filters? | 18:18 |
| dolphm | topol: the entire doc | 18:18 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I don't think that is going to fly | 18:18 |
| henrynash | gyee: no | 18:18 |
| topol | dolphm, perfect | 18:18 |
| gyee | so what API change are we talking about? | 18:18 |
| henrynash | ayoung: why? | 18:18 |
| ayoung | henrynash, is that going to change the public interface>? | 18:18 |
| topol | dolphm, and we wont ever add to that doc again??? Im guessing of course we will | 18:18 |
| henrynash | ayoung: no | 18:18 |
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| ayoung | Oh, ok, then the general approach is OK, | 18:19 |
| dolphm | topol: we are -- we continued to add to it and maintain it after v3.0 -> v3.1 | 18:19 |
| dolphm | topol: we can do the same for v3.1 -> v3.2 so we don't have to maintain multiple docs | 18:19 |
| topol | so ergo core will keep expanding | 18:19 |
| henrynash | ayoung: ok, I think so too. | 18:19 |
| dolphm | topol: yes, but a client may only implement v3.1, and v3.2 has to be compatible with such clients, etc | 18:19 |
| topol | dolphm, agreed | 18:20 |
| dolphm | and vice versa, a client may understand v3.2, but the server only speaks v3.1, and that needs to work too | 18:20 |
| topol | +100 on backward compatibility | 18:20 |
| ayoung | henrynash, You are just trying to get the attributes down to where the decision needs to be made. IN generla, that is OK. Lets discuss the mechanism after the meeting | 18:20 |
| henrynash | ayoung: correct, and agreed | 18:20 |
| gyee | ayoung, henrynash, that would not be a core API change then | 18:21 |
| bknudson | dolphm: do clients need to know if they're talking to v3.2 or v3.1? | 18:21 |
| dolphm | henrynash: your change doesn't look like it affects the http api at all | 18:21 |
| ayoung | as I was saying before, core devs, when reviewing extension changes, do not let in any more changes to the sql migrations from new extensions. | 18:21 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yes | 18:21 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: well, they should | 18:21 |
| ayoung | fixing old migrations is OK | 18:21 |
| bknudson | dolphm: how do they know? | 18:21 |
| dolphm | bknudson: GET / | 18:21 |
| jamielennox | bknudson, i would say yes if they want to use a 3.2 feature | 18:22 |
| dolphm | bknudson: or GET /v3/ | 18:22 |
| henrynash | ayoung, gyee: which is which I was trying to get clarification of exactly what the API was defined as (e.g. the one mapped to a url or the line of parameters in the controller function) | 18:22 |
| ayoung | or extentions that already have migrations in the common | 18:22 |
| ayoung | henrynash, the web API | 18:22 |
| ayoung | URL/Method | 18:22 |
| dolphm | henrynash: HTTP API | 18:22 |
| ayoung | GET /v3/users | 18:22 |
| henrynash | ayoung: Ok, fine. total agreement :-) | 18:22 |
| dolphm | henrynash: the internal implementation-specific api's are completely up to us | 18:22 |
| ayoung | so if a current API doesn't have, say, HEAD right now, adding that is a new method | 18:22 |
| dolphm | ayoung: +1 | 18:23 |
| topol | ayoung, whats the issue with new sql migrations? | 18:23 |
| ayoung | topol, a couple things | 18:23 |
| topol | cant those be done and stay backwards compatible? | 18:23 |
| gyee | ayoung, not sure if I agree to no new migration for extensions | 18:23 |
| ayoung | think along these lines: we want to be able to take an extension and deploy it in its own server. | 18:23 |
| gyee | most extensions require schema changes | 18:23 |
| ayoung | gyee, exactly | 18:23 |
| topol | gyee +1 | 18:23 |
| dolphm | gyee: should be schema additions | 18:23 |
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| dolphm | or, a new schema | 18:24 |
| ayoung | gyee, and those should be in an extension specific repo | 18:24 |
| ayoung | not in the common | 18:24 |
| ayoung | that is the point of the first review I posted | 18:24 |
| topol | so ayoung you are hiding the trash under the rug? | 18:24 |
| bknudson | ayoung: does migration know what schema is being migrated? | 18:24 |
| ayoung | No | 18:24 |
| bknudson | is the extension passed in to keystone-migrate? | 18:24 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yes | 18:24 |
| ayoung | bknudson, the issue is that migrations do it differently than alembic | 18:24 |
| ayoung | and I don' | 18:25 |
| ayoung | t know alembic well enough yet | 18:25 |
| ayoung | but for the current migration scheme, it goes into a separate row in the migrations table | 18:25 |
| bknudson | ayoung: should extensions use alembic? | 18:25 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i'd like them to | 18:25 |
| gyee | dolphm, ayoung, I think that's a fair statement, schema addition is allowed | 18:25 |
| ayoung | #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/41431/ | 18:26 |
| bknudson | ayoung: it would be good to have an example. | 18:26 |
| gyee | as long as extension can superimpose the new schema on the existing one, we should be fine | 18:26 |
| dolphm | bknudson: the community is generally leaning towards alembic, and i'm certainly on board my self... if we're going to make a transition from sqlalchemy-migrate to alembic, i'd rather do it on one migration repository than 10 (9 of which we don't have yet today) | 18:26 |
| ayoung | bknudson, so I made it work for simo's kds code, but it was using the current migration scheme, not alembic | 18:26 |
| ayoung | still learning alembic. | 18:26 |
| topol | K, so the benefits of Alembic and the new migration scheme are??? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | gyee, so in the migrations table right now I have | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | #link https://alembic.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ FYI on Alembic | 18:27 |
| ayoung | keystone | /opt/stack/keystone/keystone/common/sql/migrate_repo | 29 | 18:28 |
| ayoung | and to do an extension for kds it would be | 18:28 |
| ayoung | kds | /opt/stack/keystone/keystone/contrib/kds/sql/migrate_repo | 1 | 18:28 |
| topol | Im assuming it solves an issue we have... | 18:28 |
| ayoung | alembic's system is more like git, in that it usese hashes, paretns, etc | 18:28 |
| ayoung | but I don't know if alembic will support multiple repos or not | 18:29 |
| bknudson | topol: sqlalchemy-migrate is unsupported. | 18:29 |
| topol | will the number or migration operations decrease??? | 18:29 |
| ayoung | topol, also, it does all of the migrations ins a single commit | 18:29 |
| henrynash | ayong: is an extension migration only run when it is enabled? | 18:29 |
| topol | bknudson, THANKS for the explanation | 18:29 |
| topol | unsupported -- bad | 18:29 |
| henrynash | ayoung: is an extension migration only run when it is enabled? | 18:29 |
| gyee | ayoung, in which order the migration happens, core first, then contrib? | 18:29 |
| ayoung | henrynash, good question | 18:29 |
| ayoung | gyee, should be irrelevant | 18:29 |
| topol | single commit -- good. Im on board | 18:29 |
| bknudson | ayoung: I thought you said you had to pass the extension to keystone db_sync | 18:30 |
| ayoung | gyee, an extension should not know about core tables and vice versa. They should only communicate via code | 18:30 |
| dolphm | bknudson: topol: technically it's been unsupported, but it's now being run by our community | 18:30 |
| gyee | ayoung, what if contrib have dependency on core schema? | 18:30 |
| gyee | like foreign key or something | 18:30 |
| ayoung | bknudson, that was dolphm 's suggestion, but we hadn't discussed it yet | 18:30 |
| bknudson | ayoung: because otherwise how does db_sync know what extensions are enabled? | 18:31 |
| dolphm | bknudson: the only catch with that is that db_sync already has an optional positional argument | 18:31 |
| bknudson | parse the pipeline? | 18:31 |
| gyee | ayoung, amen brother! | 18:31 |
| dolphm | (migration number) | 18:31 |
| ayoung | dolphm, we could do a separate CLI param for extensions if needs be | 18:31 |
| ayoung | db_sync_ext | 18:31 |
| bknudson | use --extension | 18:31 |
| ayoung | or something less horrible | 18:32 |
| bknudson | or --extensions | 18:32 |
| ayoung | bknudson, =1 | 18:32 |
| ayoung | +1 | 18:32 |
| dolphm | there's a lot of tooling today that's already calling db_sync and expecting everything to be done | 18:32 |
| gyee | ayoung, I think performance may such a little, but its a price worth paying in exchange for sanity :) | 18:32 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so I would not mind it being done based on active extensions | 18:32 |
| bknudson | maybe there's some paste.ini magic. | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | why would we do a seperate call? if it's in db_sync there is no problem running db_sync if the rest of the db is up to date | 18:32 |
| dolphm | ayoung: keystone-manage has no idea what the deployment pipeline will look like | 18:33 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, lets assume we want to deploy just kds. We should only get the KDS schema on that system | 18:33 |
| dolphm | bknudson: you can have more than one paste file | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | ayoung, i'd suggest the cost of a number of empty tables that aren't accessed is pretty low | 18:33 |
| ayoung | dolphm, would it be that wrong for manage to use the paste config? | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | not optimal, but easier for configurers | 18:34 |
| dolphm | ayoung: if you can answer "which paste config" then perhaps not | 18:34 |
| ayoung | dolphm, there is a function in keystone/config which sorts that out IIRC | 18:34 |
| ayoung | https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/config.py#L39 | 18:35 |
| dolphm | ayoung: you have no guarantee that's the only pipeline that the backend is supporting | 18:35 |
| ayoung | dolphm, how about adding the pipeline to db_sync? | 18:35 |
| dolphm | what does that mean | 18:35 |
| ayoung | extensions could have their own pipeline | 18:35 |
| * dolphm facepalm | 18:35 | |
| ayoung | heh | 18:35 |
| * ayoung 's work here is done | 18:36 | |
| dolphm | #topic Havana milestoen 3 blueprints | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana milestoen 3 blueprints (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:36 | |
| dolphm | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/havana-3 | 18:36 |
| ayoung | #action ayoung to sort out the db_sync strategy for extensions | 18:36 |
| dolphm | between now and next week, we need to revise this list | 18:36 |
| dolphm | so if there are blueprints you plan on working during m3 which are not on this list, speak up! | 18:36 |
| dolphm | register them | 18:36 |
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| dolphm | whatever | 18:36 |
| henrynash | dolphm: there was the pagination one…let me find it | 18:37 |
| bknudson | how do we request a blueprint goes into h3? | 18:37 |
| dolphm | there's also a few blueprints on here we might want to untarget from m3 (like bp notifications) | 18:37 |
| ayoung | dolphm, should I add the SQL migration thing as a blueprint? I was doing it as a prereq, but it seesm to have grown in scope | 18:37 |
| gyee | dolphm, I think fabio is working on the endpoint filtering bp | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/notifications | 18:37 |
| henrynash | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/pagination-backend-support | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | yeah, wondering how we are going to go about hten since it is blocked my rpc-api-review work in oslo | 18:37 |
| gyee | fabio, please confirm | 18:37 |
| dolphm | bknudson: poke me about it, if nothing else, i'm not sure what permissions people have on launchpad, but i can definitely help | 18:37 |
| bknudson | dolphm: ok. I've been requested to implement some kind of translation blueprint. | 18:38 |
| ayoung | dolphm, guessing that heckj is not going to have time to work on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/keystone-performance-benchmark | 18:38 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: it's been on my wishlist all of havana, but i think we need to retarget to 'next' | 18:38 |
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| fabio | yes I am working on the ep-filter | 18:38 |
| dolphm | ayoung: agree, although we've had some activity around benchmarking recently... we might be able to rubberstamp it as completed out of band | 18:38 |
| ayoung | dolphm, cool | 18:38 |
| gyee | dolphm, can you please add the endpoint filtering to the m3 list? | 18:38 |
| * topol who keeps filtering endpoint filtering out of the m3 list??? :-) | 18:39 | |
| ayoung | dolphm, so all of the extension blueprints should depend on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/multiple-sql-migrate-repos | 18:39 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: should we think about an implementation using the existing rpc stuff in oslo? | 18:39 |
| gyee | topol, we are not getting into my filter is bigger than your filter war are we? | 18:39 |
| ayoung | that is KDS, endpoint filtering, OAuth, | 18:40 |
| ayoung | Domain Quotas | 18:40 |
| topol | lol. no I always lose those | 18:40 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: i'm pretty sure someone did, and that got blocked too? | 18:40 |
| gyee | who's working on domain quota? | 18:40 |
| bknudson | I thought the problem with notifications is we don't want to require eventlet? | 18:40 |
| ayoung | Tiago Everton Ferraz Martins gyee | 18:41 |
| ayoung | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/domain-quota-management-and-enforcement | 18:41 |
| dolphm | there's two quota bp's in progress | 18:41 |
| dolphm | they'll have to resolve their differences | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: I think it is blocked because there are dependencies on eventlet in the rpc module of oslo. That's another thing I am working on in oslo for unified logging | 18:41 |
| gyee | one's from HP I think | 18:41 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: ++ | 18:41 |
| dolphm | this is the other one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37545/ | 18:42 |
| dolphm | quota storage | 18:42 |
| lbragstad | So I'm wondering if we should implement notifications on the current rpc stuff at least until the rpc api review has landed. Not sure when that is going to go in... | 18:42 |
| bknudson | lbragstad: what's the current rpc stuff? is that different than oslo rpc? | 18:43 |
| topol | lbragstad, what is "the current rpc stuff"?? | 18:43 |
| topol | jinx | 18:43 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: considering we're late to the notifications party already, i would think it'd be best to wait, but if you want to pursue it... | 18:43 |
| lbragstad | topol: bknudson sorry, right the current implemtation of the rpc module in Oslo-incubator | 18:43 |
| lbragstad | getting link | 18:43 |
| lbragstad | #link https://github.com/openstack/oslo-incubator/tree/master/openstack/common/rpc | 18:44 |
| ayoung | dolphm, can we set aside a few minute to talke client issues | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | #link https://github.com/openstack/oslo-incubator/tree/master/openstack/common/notifier | 18:44 |
| ayoung | at the end | 18:44 |
| dolphm | ayoung: sure | 18:44 |
| ayoung | my issue with the notifications stuff was that it was inherantly eventlet specific. I'm OK with us taking on some event deps so long as Keystone in Apache will continue to work in a non greenthread manner | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | entend dpes = "new eventlet dependencies" | 18:46 |
| ayoung | ugh | 18:46 |
| ayoung | event deps = "new eventlet dependencies" | 18:46 |
| bknudson | ayoung: how do we show that? | 18:46 |
| bknudson | try it? | 18:46 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yes | 18:46 |
| ayoung | bknudson, there is an open review for devstack support for Keystone running in HTTPD | 18:46 |
| ayoung | that should take away some of the pain | 18:47 |
| bknudson | lbragstad: so I think we know what we need to do? try it. | 18:47 |
| dolphm | ayoung: have you ever thought about standing up apache as a reverse proxy to keystone? | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: ok | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | that will require us to sync oslo to keystone | 18:47 |
| bknudson | lbragstad: try it in a sandbox | 18:47 |
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| bknudson | (on your own system) | 18:48 |
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| lbragstad | bknudson: yep | 18:48 |
| ayoung | dolphm, "reverse" proxy meaning do SSL terminiation and stuff in httpd, and run keystone in eventlet? | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | dolphm, it has been done, there are some weird hacks around REMOTE_USER but it works | 18:48 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yes to the first part | 18:48 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: and run keystone somewhere-else-it-doesnt-matter | 18:48 |
| topol | why is that better than running keystone in HTTPD? | 18:49 |
| bknudson | dolphm: what's the concern? run keystone-all by itself and have apache forward requests to it? | 18:49 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i didn't say keystone-all, but sure | 18:49 |
| jamielennox | but it is better to just have it managed in the one place | 18:49 |
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| dolphm | i poked at running keystone in gunicorn yesterday | 18:49 |
| bknudson | I thought the problem was keystone-all is problematic. | 18:49 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i wasn't using keystone-all | 18:49 |
| topol | don't you still have the security holes when running in reverse proxy mode? | 18:50 |
| jamielennox | topol, holes? | 18:50 |
| bknudson | topol: do you know about some security holes? | 18:50 |
| dolphm | topol: donuts? | 18:50 |
| topol | so if keystone runs in apache we get all the benefits that Apache provides (SSl, etc) | 18:50 |
| dolphm | #topic open discussion | 18:50 |
| gyee | haha | 18:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:51 | |
| topol | don't some of those go away in the other config? | 18:51 |
| dolphm | topol: behind* apache is all that matters, i think | 18:51 |
| henrynash | i wanted to raise the support of vw in non-keystone clients | 18:51 |
| bknudson | v3? | 18:51 |
| ayoung | vw? | 18:51 |
| dolphm | topol: whether it's actually running via mod_wsgi, keystone-all, nginx+gunicorn, etc doesn't matter | 18:51 |
| ayoung | Volkswagon? | 18:51 |
| henrynash | bknudson: yes, v3 support in things like novaclient | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | so if the sandbox notifications work should we remove the bp that is a prereq for notification? | 18:51 |
| topol | dolphm, need to verify that with the paranoid security folks | 18:52 |
| gyee | you guys aware of the KC changes to support pluggable auth? | 18:52 |
| henrynash | dolphm: do we know the plan for getting v3 support in novaclient etc.? | 18:53 |
| gyee | like passing an auth object to the client | 18:53 |
| dolphm | gyee: i haven't seen a reviwe yet | 18:53 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I've thought about it. The short of it is that I think eventlet is a mismatch for Keystone, and working around it has proven problematic. I want to be able to remove eventlet from the equasion. I think the Apache benefits are, as your point out, mostly in doing better HTTP handling like SSL and Authentication. | 18:53 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i'm not sure there's a hard plan anywhere :-/ getting v3 auth into keystone was a major step | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | yea, i like the strategy - my concern is we made him bring the auth plugins into keystone (where they belong), but how do we get the other clients to update keystone to the point where they can use those plugins? | 18:54 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i think the next step is having keystoneclient own the options it wants other client to specify | 18:54 |
| jamielennox | we will need to do a global kc version bump to something not released yet | 18:54 |
| dolphm | --os-user-domain-id, etc | 18:54 |
| ayoung | so what are the steps | 18:54 |
| gyee | dolphm, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36427 | 18:54 |
| ayoung | 1. Make keystone client CLI work with the auth review | 18:54 |
| bknudson | gyee: abandoned? | 18:54 |
| gyee | its trying to use the same mechanism as novaclient | 18:55 |
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| bknudson | ran out of time or decided not a good idea? | 18:55 |
| ayoung | 2. look at another client that already works with keystoneclient and make it auth clean. | 18:55 |
| bknudson | the plugin should be common. | 18:55 |
| henrynash | dolphm: when you mean own, you mean somehow do the parsing for those parameters? | 18:55 |
| gyee | bknudson, I was trying to figure out if its fundamentally different from the direction ayoung's going | 18:55 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, is already working on makeing the auth_token middleware use requests | 18:55 |
| jamielennox | i think should be considered deprecated in favour of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28043/ | 18:55 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: that's a lot of code! | 18:56 |
| jamielennox | yea, but most of it is from oslo (or at least proposed) | 18:56 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i'd like openstackclient, for example, to pass keystone a argparse parser, and have keystoneclient populate it with whatever options it expects | 18:56 |
| gyee | bknudson, no shit! | 18:56 |
| ayoung | gyee, take a look at the reveiw that jamielennox posted. I think it handles the same things as your review. Alessio Ababilov's put a lot of effort into it, just submitted It to oslo first | 18:56 |
| jamielennox | but yes, and i think both subtly change how the client gets initiated | 18:57 |
| topol | gyee +1 | 18:57 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i'm not sure that's the *best* way for keystoneclient to own that stuff, but it's an easy one | 18:57 |
| henrynash | dolphm: understand your point | 18:57 |
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| topol | lets draw straws on who gets to review that | 18:57 |
| dolphm | henrynash: if we can boil down the process to like 3 lines of boilerplate that other projects can include, we win | 18:57 |
| gyee | topol, I am going to be like termie, start that review with a -2 :) | 18:58 |
| henrynash | dolphm: agreed…. | 18:58 |
| ayoung | gyee, no you are not | 18:58 |
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| topol | I know termie is still alive because he "liked" one of my daughter's instagram photos. 1st time ever | 18:59 |
| ayoung | gyee, work with Allesio on getting that sorted out. | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | i've had a look through, the code is pretty good as it has been through a dozen rounds of oslo already. It's just hard to say that it's doing everything the same and trying to figure out if it prevents us doing anything new | 18:59 |
| ayoung | I think that you guys are headed in the same general direction | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | OK, times up | 19:00 |
| gyee | ayoung, I was half joking, just need to spend some time on it | 19:00 |
| * topol half joking... half | 19:00 | |
| ayoung | dolphm, you want to send out the feature freeze message? | 19:00 |
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| dolphm | http://paste.openstack.org/raw/41437/ | 19:01 |
| dolphm | henrynash: ^ | 19:01 |
| ayoung | dolphm, +1 | 19:01 |
| henrynash | dolphm: get the idea | 19:01 |
| jamielennox | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+spec/consolidate-cli-auth | 19:02 |
| bknudson | dolphm: does it need the version? | 19:02 |
| bknudson | oh, probably not | 19:02 |
| ayoung | bknudson, probably at the packaging level, not here | 19:02 |
| dolphm | bknudson: it would be up to keystoneclient to reach out to the auth url and find out what versions are available | 19:02 |
| jamielennox | for cli options, append anything to ^ | 19:02 |
| dolphm | bknudson: and abstract that all away from both end users and other clients | 19:02 |
| topol | how much code change in all the clients? | 19:03 |
| dolphm | the goal being: never maintain auth code in other clients, own it in one client | 19:03 |
| dolphm | topol: hopefully a lot of deletes | 19:03 |
| ayoung | we're about to get kicked out | 19:03 |
| bknudson | swift is always the oddball | 19:03 |
| dolphm | ah | 19:03 |
| topol | how good are we at getting them to update their client per our desires? | 19:03 |
| dolphm | sorry guys! | 19:03 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 23 19:03:50 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-07-23-18.01.html | 19:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-07-23-18.01.txt | 19:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-07-23-18.01.log.html | 19:03 |
| dolphm | stab me at 2p | 19:03 |
| dolphm | or 4 minutes ago whatever hour | 19:04 |
| dolphm | unless -ci is at OSCON lol | 19:04 |
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| clarkb | dolphm: yes most of the infra team is at OSCON | 19:09 |
| * dolphm jealous | 19:09 | |
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| gabrielhurley | Anybody actually around for the Horizon meeting? | 21:59 |
| timductive1 | I'm here but not much to discuss | 21:59 |
| med_ | likely at OSCON | 21:59 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:59 |
| gabrielhurley | I didn't cancel it, but I'm not sure there's a lot to talk about | 21:59 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: at least I am here :) | 21:59 |
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| gabrielhurley | okay | 21:59 |
| gabrielhurley | we'll have a quick one then | 21:59 |
| lcheng | o/ | 21:59 |
| gabrielhurley | #startmeeting horizon | 21:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 23 21:59:53 2013 UTC. The chair is gabrielhurley. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 21:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 21:59 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic overview | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "overview (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:00 | |
| gabrielhurley | Hello to those of you who are here. Thanks for being around. | 22:00 |
| jcoufal | Hi all | 22:00 |
| timductive1 | o/ | 22:00 |
| gabrielhurley | Last week we cut the H2 milestone, that's awesome. | 22:00 |
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| gabrielhurley | this week is mostly a "get stuff done or go to OSCON" week, so a lot of people are out, and hopefully everyone's just working hard. | 22:01 |
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| gabrielhurley | #topic blueprints | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:01 | |
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| gabrielhurley | I've got nothing new to report for myself. I know there's been progress on the keystoneclient/client unpinning effort which I'll let others speak to, and anyone who wants to give an update is welcome to. | 22:01 |
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| gabrielhurley | david-lyle, lcheng: care to speak on the client stuff? | 22:02 |
| lcheng | Still trying the get the latest openstack_auth consumed by horizon. | 22:02 |
| david-lyle | I think the change that went in this morning was the last unpinning work, so we can adopt keystoneclient 0.3+ as desired | 22:02 |
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| jcoufal | about navigation enhancements - there is no more activity on mailing thread, so I am going to wrap up the discussion and start designing proposals to cover mentioned issues | 22:03 |
| david-lyle | lcheng: that's unblocked by openstack/requirements right? | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | did ceilometerclient get its update? | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | that was the last blocker for the client stuff | 22:03 |
| david-lyle | yes | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | okay | 22:03 |
| lcheng | There is a major bug fix made in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37563/ for running openstack_auth in Keystone V3. | 22:04 |
| david-lyle | yeah, we had to wait to everyone else got their changes in | 22:04 |
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| lcheng | We would need to release a new version of openstack_auth and use that version. | 22:04 |
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| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: then yeah, we should be unblocked on that. | 22:04 |
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| gabrielhurley | lcheng: I need to make sure I know the right way to do a release for that now that it's in gerrit | 22:04 |
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| gabrielhurley | I'll work on that ASAP | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | jcoufal: sounds great | 22:04 |
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| lcheng | david-lyle: yes, that matches what's in openstack/requirements | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | #action gabrielhurley to tag and release new openstack_auth version | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | anybody else with blueprint updates? | 22:06 |
| lcheng | Related to keystone-client, I'm keeping an eye on this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28043/ | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | ah, I hadn't seen that review | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | that's good to know about | 22:06 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: last week you wanted to discuss something about nav enhancements, is that still on? | 22:06 |
| timductive1 | I've got a blueprint to update the Heat Topology now that a few features have been pushed through in Heat | 22:07 |
| lcheng | There are some code changes that could break openstack_auth. | 22:07 |
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| david-lyle | jcoufal: we can do it in the blueprint I just wanted to mention that not a lot of input was coming in, hoping others would chime in | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | lcheng: I'll be curious to see how that shakes out now that openstack_auth is also in the gating | 22:08 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: alright, we can continue there after I do the summary | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | timductive1: yep. certainly looking forward to seeing that | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | jcoufal, david-lyle: I'll probably have more input once I see some wireframes | 22:09 |
| timductive1 | gabrielhurley: Thanks I'm hoping to have a code review up this week | 22:09 |
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| gabrielhurley | even better :-) | 22:09 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: definitely, will be working on that and let you all know once they are out | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | sweet | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic open discussion | 22:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:09 | |
| gabrielhurley | Let's just make this general talk time | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | it's more for the logs than anything | 22:10 |
| jcoufal | just quick reminder about UX discussions | 22:10 |
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| jcoufal | I would let people one last week for proposals | 22:11 |
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| jcoufal | and after that let vote for best tool from all proposals we have | 22:11 |
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| jcoufal | so I encourage everybody who has some suggestions, feel free to follow discussion in mailing list | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | +1 | 22:12 |
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| gabrielhurley | anybody else? | 22:13 |
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| lcheng | gabrielhurley: got a question on some hanging code | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | oh? | 22:14 |
| timductive1 | is anyone actively working on wireframes for the nav enhancement? | 22:14 |
| lcheng | Does anyone know if the code in https://github.com/openstack/horizon/blob/master/openstack_dashboard/dashboards/admin/projects/tables.py#L140 is still being used? | 22:14 |
| lcheng | This is for the Project -> User assignment | 22:14 |
| jcoufal | timductive1: working on that whenever I have some spare time | 22:15 |
| lcheng | The implement for Project -> User assignment is mostly in javascript now (horizon.project.js). Wondering if I should just clean this up. | 22:15 |
| lcheng | There are also some leftover html template, url (not accessed) and view classes not used related to this functionality. | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | hmmm... I suspect it may be orphaned, but I can't be 100% sure just at a glance | 22:16 |
| david-lyle | timductive1: I posted am image of an accordion style nav that we are using: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VQEiT33xj4o/UdwTp0llSPI/AAAAAAAAATs/kB7u3ZiMO44/w506-h281-o/Screenshot%2Bfrom%2B2013-07-08%2B15%25253A49%25253A36.png but I would like to see what jcoufal comes up with | 22:16 |
| lcheng | gabrielhurley: hanging -> leftover code | 22:16 |
| jcoufal | timductive1: already have some ideas put on the paper, but I also wanted to wait for result of discussion about issues to be sure we cover as much as possible | 22:16 |
| lcheng | Okay, I guess if the tests pass after cleanup I'll assume that cleanup is good. :-) | 22:17 |
| david-lyle | what happens with the js implementation of adding/removing users if no js support? | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | lcheng: I'd say so | 22:17 |
| david-lyle | at the summit there was mention of primary use cases needing to work without js | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: my recollection is that it originally had a NoJS fallback, but I'm blanking on it right now | 22:18 |
| jcoufal | timductive1: however, I want to get out with something soon, so we can discuss and gather as much feedback, not wasting time on wrong ways | 22:18 |
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| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: I think the experience is quite janky but it ought to work. If not it's mostly a style problem as opposed to the capabilities existing vs. not | 22:18 |
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| timductive1 | jcoufal: ok, I was just wondering what the scope was for the nav | 22:19 |
| david-lyle | as long as there's a way, I'm good with it. | 22:19 |
| timductive1 | whether it is just a better left nav or reorganizing into horizontal tabs | 22:19 |
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| jcoufal | timductive1: I am trying to hit all possibilities I see | 22:21 |
| david-lyle | I would assume all is on the table, but someone has to be willing to do the work if it's drastic | 22:21 |
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| david-lyle | modifying the left hand nav is not a large effort | 22:22 |
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| jcoufal | I will try also just to show options, even they might not be ideal, we can discuss | 22:22 |
| jcoufal | I think seeing all possibilities will be helpful | 22:22 |
| timductive1 | ok, I'm curious to see the options, but yes its tough to make drastic changes | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | the one thing to bear in mind (as far as when we try to land such a change) is that a lot of downstream distros and companies consume horizon and skin it, meaning we need to watch out for not surprising them with big changes at the end of a release cycle... | 22:22 |
| david-lyle | that said, the current layout has fixed width items which obviously fit small screens poorly | 22:23 |
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| gabrielhurley | I would hate to have a navigation change be the reason people don't adopt the latest dashboard for months | 22:23 |
| cody-somerville | making good use of CSS should help us avoid minimize that. | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | yep, but any change is gonna affect those overlays/remixes | 22:23 |
| david-lyle | yeah, I've played a lot in that code, lots of assumptions | 22:24 |
| timductive1 | yeah the main problem that seems hard to solve is having more than 3 dashboards with the fixed width left nav | 22:24 |
| david-lyle | regarding width and float behavior | 22:24 |
| david-lyle | the accordion works well for that which is why we adopted it | 22:24 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: agree | 22:24 |
| david-lyle | we needed more than three tabs with really short non-translatable names | 22:25 |
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| timductive1 | I like the accordion structure, maybe coupled with a good breadcrumb system would fix a lot of my nav issues | 22:26 |
| jcoufal | timductive1: could you add your issues in the mailing thread? | 22:26 |
| david-lyle | I agree about the breadcrumbs there are too many dead ends in the UI flow | 22:27 |
| timductive1 | jcoufal: sure thing | 22:27 |
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| jcoufal | timductive1: that would be great to have more information, thanks | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | accordian is generally +1, though I find that project generally has to be surfaced as a top-level meta grouping. Project determines roles, and roles determine so much of what a user has access to... I'll be interesting to see what comes of it. | 22:28 |
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| jcoufal | timductive1: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-July/011509.html this one it is | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | anyhow, I'm gonna head to another meeting. Feel free to keep discussing (obviously). | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll catch y'all next week. | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | thanks for the good discussion today | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | #endmeeting | 22:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 23 22:30:02 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-07-23-21.59.html | 22:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-07-23-21.59.txt | 22:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-07-23-21.59.log.html | 22:30 |
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| david-lyle | thanks for taking this on jcoufal! | 22:31 |
| timductive1 | yes thanks jcoufal | 22:32 |
| david-lyle | I'm excited to see your mock-ups | 22:32 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: timductive1: my pleasure, I believe we will find the best solution for all | 22:32 |
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| jcoufal | I will try to come out with some early version asap, not finished though, but would love to get your feedback | 22:33 |
| david-lyle | sounds great | 22:34 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: timductive1: Defnitelly thank you guys for your interest and inputs | 22:35 |
| timductive1 | yes, I would love to see it once you've got it | 22:35 |
| timductive1 | sending email now | 22:36 |
| jcoufal | excellent | 22:36 |
| jcoufal | talk to you soon guys | 22:38 |
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