Wednesday, 2013-07-31

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mestery#startmeeting networking_ml214:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 31 14:00:24 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_ml2'14:00
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mestery#link Agenda14:00
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mesteryrcurran, apech, asomya: here?14:01
rcurranrcurran here14:01
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mesteryOK, so today, I think there are a few discussion points we should cover first in the agenda.14:01
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mestery#topic Discussion ITems14:01
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sukhdevGood Morning14:02
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mesteryThe first item is the directory structure for mechanism drivers.14:02
mesterysukhdev had sent an email to start that discussion.14:02
mesteryHave most people seen this? I think we copied most everyone.14:02
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mesteryI think the consensus on the email thread was to create separate directories under neutron/plugins/ml2/drivers/ for each MechanismDriver.14:03
mesteryAre people ok with this approach?14:03
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sukhdevYes - that sounds reasonable14:03
rkukuraso drivers can still be single modules or directories, right?14:04
mesteryrkukura: Yes, we won't enforce a directory.14:04
rkukurabut same naming convention, indicating type vs. mech14:04
rcurranbut it reads like both cisco and arista will be creating dirs14:04
mesteryrcurran: Yes, each vendor can create a directory for their files.14:04
rcurranand ODL14:04
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mesteryrkukura: So, for single file drivers, you mean something like "mech_*" and "type_*", right?14:05
asomyadirectories would be needed for multiple files for a mechanism drivers14:05
rkukuraare we expecting these directories to contain a single driver, or multiple drivers?14:05
rcurranlong term for cisco, multiple14:06
apechfor arista, the main motivation is for drivers that want to split support into multiple files (with separate exceptions, config, db, and driver file)14:06
rcurranyes, cisco will do the same14:06
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mesteryapech: Yes, and it makes sense to keep those in one directory. Same for Cisco.14:06
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rkukuraFor a single driver with multiple files, I think the directory should be mech_* or type_*14:07
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mesteryrkukura: So you want the directory named that way too? I think that sounds reasonable.14:07
rkukuraBut for a set of related drivers, maybe even some mech and some type, naming the directory cisco is fine14:08
sukhdevso then it will ....neutron/plugins/ml2/drivers/mech_arista, mech_cisco ?14:08
rcurranso as an example ../drivers/mech_cisco/
apechmy only concern would be the need to rename the directory when you add the first type driver14:08
apechthough at this point we have no plans of doing that, so it may be a bit academic14:08
rkukurarcurran: I'd go with dirvers/cisco/mech_cisco_nexus.py14:08
rcurranok, that's what i thought :-) .... didn't understand the mech_* comment from above14:09
rkukuranice thing is that with python entry points in the config files rather than class names, we can reorganize without breaking configs14:09
mesterySo, to summarize: Single file mech drivers are in drivers/mech_*.py. Single mech drivers with multiple files are in drivers/mech_*/. And multiple mech drivers from one vendor are in drivers/[vendor]/14:09
rkukuramestery: +114:09
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apechokay, works for me14:10
mestery#info Single file mech drivers are in drivers/mech_*.py. Single mech drivers with multiple files are in drivers/mech_*/. And multiple mech drivers from one vendor are in drivers/[vendor]/14:10
rcurranok, but i should create cisco as drivers/cisco since we will (in the future) create other drivers14:10
mesteryrcurran: Yes, that is the way to go.14:10
rcurrangot it14:10
mesteryOK, lets move on to the next agenda item.14:11
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sukhdevso, for us it will mech_arista then14:11
mesteryAPI Extensions in MechanismDrivers.14:11
rcurranbecause arista only plans on supporting one driver in the future?14:11
mesteryasomya, do you want to talk about this one?14:11
asomyamestery: sure14:12
apechsukhdev: that's what i understood14:12
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asomyaSo currently ML2 loads all extensions, we might want to make is selective by loading only supported_extensions from mechanism and type drivers loaded14:12
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mesteryasomya: Also, what if a particular MechanismDriver wants to implement additional API extensions?14:13
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asomyaWe can read the list from each mechanism driver and load those extensions including custom API extensions per mechanism driver. This list can be maintained per mech driver in the Mech manager14:14
rkukuratricky part is defining what it means to "support an extension" when multiple drivers are involved that might not all support the extension14:15
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mesteryrkukura: Agreed.14:15
mesteryOK, so any other comments on API extensions in MechanismDrivers?14:16
rkukuraI guess there might be case where the extension is explicitly driver-specific, like maybe an API for managing the controller that driver supports or something14:16
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rkukuraso allowing drivers to define completely new resources should be well-defined14:17
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rkukurabut if an extension adds attributes to network or port, not all drivers may know what to do with these14:17
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rkukurado we have any short term needs for any of this, or should we try to defer API extensibility to icehouse?14:18
mesteryI think we can defer this to Icehouse, frankly. apech, rcurran, asomya, what do you think?14:18
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apechno short term need here14:19
rcurranopps .. where did asomya go :-)14:19
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asomyasosry lost internet for a bit14:19
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rcurranarvind - i don't think i need ext for cisco_nexus ... svi support ?14:20
asomyarcurran: nope no extensions needed for that14:20
rcurranok then for havana, i'm good14:21
asomyaSo i was suggesting maintaining a dictionary of supported extensions per driver in the Mechanism Manager and routing API calls to each mech driver based on that dict14:21
mestery#info Defer API extensibility for ML2 to Icehouse14:21
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rcurranasomya - you may have missed the question - does ODL need this for havana?14:22
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rcurranor can it wait until icehouse14:22
asomyarcurran: nope, ODL doesn't need this for hanava14:22
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mesteryOK, so we will defer API extensibility to Icehouse then.14:23
mesteryMoving on to the next topic for discussion.14:23
asomyamestery: +1, it's not critical to have this14:23
mesteryRPC extensibility in ML2.14:23
mesteryrkukura, rcurran, and asomya and I spoke about this briefly on the phone yesterday.14:23
mesteryasomya: Want to elaborate here? You hit this with ODL.14:24
asomyamestery: sure14:24
asomyaThe ODL implementation relies on some custom RPC calls from the agent to the driver to do it's job. In ML2 all RPc calls are routed to the type_manager, we need a select few calls to also come to the mechanism_manager to be distributed to the mech drivers14:25
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asomyaWe talked about a shot term solution of creating a second topic (e.g. mechanism) to be routed to the mechanism drivers and consumed by the mechanism driver instead of the type_driver14:26
mesterySo for this, we have an immediate need in Havana for this functionality, though it's tempered by the fact that some changes in ODL may preclude us needing an agent for ODL to work with Neutron.14:26
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asomyathe type driver can still consume the conventional dhcp, l3 etc. calls based on the old topic name14:26
rkukuraSo right now the type_tunnel.TunnelRpcCallbackMixin is inherited by RpcCallbacks. Would a more general approach for drivers to supply callback mixins do the job?14:27
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asomyarkukura: that might do the trick as well. So will the drivers themselves be inheriting the rpccallback classes in that case?14:28
rkukuraasomya: I was just thinking that if a driver wanted to define its own callback, there would be some way to register it14:29
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rkukuraI'm not 100% clear on how the RPC dispatching works, so maybe drivers can already do this themselves by defining a new topic14:29
asomyaI tried with the conventional way of implementing a second RPC inside the ODL mech driver but that didn't work, the topic name was the same and everything got sent to the type driver. I'll try it with a new topic name14:30
rkukuraasomya: If some hooks are needed for the RPC topic registration to work, we can add that14:31
asomyarkukura: sounds great, lemme try a ne topic and i'll get back to the group on what's needed14:31
mestery#action asomya to try out MechanismDriver specific RPC calls with a new topic and report back on how that works14:32
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rkukuraThe other idea kicked around was having the existing RPCs such as get_device_details() call into the MechanismDriver to which the port is bound so it can add any needed attributes to the response, or call a controller14:32
asomyarkukura: But that was very specific to the ODL use case, could be other mech drivers that need even different RPc hooks14:33
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rkukuracould certainly do similar driver calls for update_device_[up|down]14:35
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mesteryOK, so asomya, can you try out the new topic and see if that gets the ODL Mech driver going in the short term here?14:36
rkukuraLets see how the portbinding works out, and we can MechanismDriver calls to the L2 agent RPCs if that seems to make sense14:36
asomyamestery: sure14:36
mesterySo lets move on to the next topic.14:36
mestery#topic Blueprint Updates14:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint Updates (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)"14:36
mestery#link ML2 Port Binding14:37
mesteryrkukura: You led us into the next topic. :)14:37
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rkukurafinally started working on it14:37
rkukurawith luck, may have a patch at the end of the week14:37
mesteryrkukura: Great! I know some MechanismDriver writes who will anxiously be waiting. :)14:38
mesteryAny questions on ML2 Port Binding?14:38
apechnope, looking forward to it, thanks rkukura14:39
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mestery#link ML2 Multi Segment API14:39
mesterySo, this one is low priority for H3.14:39
mesteryI'm not sure if we should prioritize this for H3 or make this an Icehouse thing. Thoughts from others?14:40
asomyamestery: Do any mechanism drivers need to implement this asap?14:40
mesteryasomya: None that I'm aware of, no.14:41
mesteryAt least in the Havana timeframe.14:41
rkukuraI think our priority here should be to make sure the extension being added for NVP is defined properly, and implement it if we get a chance14:41
mesteryrkukura: Agreed. That hasn't gone up yet, I'll make sure to stay on top of that since this BP is assigned to me.14:42
mestery#action mestery to monitor NVP extension for multiple provider networks in relation to ML2 multi-segment API14:42
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rkukuraI think I was supposed to start an email thread, and still might when I review the NVP patch14:43
mesteryrkukra: OK, thanks!14:43
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rkukuramestery: you are welcome to do that if you get to it first, and discussion seems to be needed14:43
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mesteryrkukura: OK, sounds good.14:43
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mestery#link ML2 TypeDriver Extra Port Info14:43
mesteryZangMingjie: Here?14:43
mestery#link ExtraPort Info Review14:44
mesterySo, I provided some comments on this one based on what rkukura and I discussed Monday.14:44
mesteryWe thought instead of this, we could overload "physical network".14:44
mesteryBut, as ZangMingJie pointed out, this BP may provide more flexibility.14:44
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ZangMingJieI think it may be a long term process to replace the 3-tuple with a custimizable arbitrary data struct14:45
rkukuralooks like this is doing with TypeDrivers what I was proposing to do for the bound MechanismDriver!14:45
mesteryrkukura: Looking at it, I think you're right!14:45
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mesteryZangMingJie: I will re-review this today, but I think I'm more inclined to approve it now after discussions over the last day.14:46
rkukuraOne question is whether the ml2 schema should continue to store the 3-tuple, or maybe instead store an encoded dict for each segment14:46
ZangMingJiewhat about each type driver manage its own database store14:47
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rkukuraZangMingJie: That is also worth considering14:48
rkukuraI will definitely review this current patch in detail14:48
ZangMingJieok, thank you14:48
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mesteryOK, we only have 11 minutes left, lets move on.14:49
mestery#topic Bugs14:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)"14:49
mestery#link ML2 devstack14:49
mesteryThe good news is this change was merged yesterday.14:49
mesterySo if you haven't tried it yet, now it's even easier.14:49
mesteryThe next step for devstack is to see if we can get it to default to ML2 instead of OVS.14:49
mesteryI will likely open a bug for that and work with deantroyer and sdague to see how we can make that happen.14:50
rkukuramestery: +114:50
sukhdevmestery: thanks- this will help14:50
rkukuraIn the mean time, maybe an email to openstack-dev encouraging people to try out ml2 in devstack would be a good idea14:51
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rkukuraAlong with some instructions on the ML2 wiki14:51
mestery#action mestery to send email to openstack-dev encouraging people to try ML2 out14:51
mestery#action mestery to update the wiki with ML2 devstack instructions14:51
mesteryGood ideas rkukura!14:51
mestery#link Enable gre and vxlan with the same ID14:52
mesterymatrohon: Here?14:52
rkukurathen we'll start getting some new bugs to work on;-)14:52
mesteryrkukura: Heh. :)14:52
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mesteryThe review I just posted is for this bug:
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1196963 in neutron "Update the OVS agent code to program tunnels using ports instead of tunnel IDs" [Wishlist,In progress]14:53
mesteryWe should all review this, as this will be nice to get in for H3 to allow for GRE and VXLAN tunnels to have the same tunnel ID, which they currently can't in ML2.14:53
mestery#topic Questions and wrap up14:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Questions and wrap up (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)"14:54
mesteryI skipped a few items due to time, is there anything else we should cover here in the last 5 minutes?14:54
asomyaCan someone add a few lines to the wiki on how the pre- and post- calls work in the mech drivers?14:54
apechasomya: sure, i can take that on14:55
mesteryapech: Can you take that one?14:55
asomyaapech: thanks :)14:55
mestery#action apech to add some notes to the wiki about how the pre- and post- calls work14:55
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mesterySo, the Neutron feature cutoff is end ofday Augsut 23.14:56
mesteryAnd the release date is September 5.14:56
mesterySo we don't have a lot of time left in Havana.14:56
mesteryJust FYI, no pressure or anthing. :)14:56
mesteryOK, so thanks everyone for all your efforts on ML2!14:57
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mesteryWe'll do this again next week, same UTC-time, same IRC-channel.14:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings ||"14:57
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul 31 14:57:45 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:57
openstackMinutes (text):
rkukurathanks mestery and all!14:58
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johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI15:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 31 15:01:04 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:01
johnthetubaguyHello! Hands up, who is around today?15:01
johnthetubaguyanyone got specific agenda items?15:02
BobBallI've got a fun bug to talk about15:03
BobBallpotentially two fun bugs15:03
matelAnd I have a question for john.15:03
BobBallMate's got a blueprint15:03
johnthetubaguyno actions actions from last meeting, so lets dive into blueprints15:03
johnthetubaguy#topic Blueprints15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:03
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johnthetubaguyI just submitted a change for my last H-3 blueprint15:04
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BobBallshall we talk about Mate's first?15:04
BobBallHow do we get this BP approved and prioritised? ;)15:04
johnthetubaguytalk to russell b, after targetting it, as ever15:05
matelI thought we just need to get it done.15:05
johnthetubaguybut I suspect they might start rejecting, due to review bandwidth15:05
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BobBallmatel: if the BP hasn't been approved some core members might not want it in ;)15:05
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johnthetubaguycore members don't approve blueprints, its drivers15:05
johnthetubaguyi.e. not me15:05
BobBallI meant core members might not approve it in the review15:06
johnthetubaguyoh right, yup, I would reject it on those grounds15:06
johnthetubaguyso matel, whats the question?15:06
BobBallperhaps we should just close the BP and raise it as the bug that it is ;)15:06
matelI think someone found some ancient cinder database code fragments.15:06
johnthetubaguywell, if you select the series goal of H-3, russellb will probably take a look for you15:07
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matelLet me link in the change...15:07
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matelI think all those sm_ functions should go away.15:08
matelDo you have any other ideas about those functions?15:08
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johnthetubaguyyeah, they should die, I guess we forgot to remove those?15:09
matelI think so.15:10
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johnthetubaguyback to the blueprint15:11
johnthetubaguywhat were the questions there?15:11
matelI have no questions.15:11
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johnthetubaguyOK, cool15:11
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johnthetubaguyany more blueprints?15:11
BobBallNo questions from me15:12
ekarlso-odd question15:12
ekarlso-would you guys say that xen is easier to setup for OS atm ?15:12
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BobBalleasier than what?15:13
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ekarlso-kvm BobBall :)15:14
BobBallIt depends on the scale your looking at :)15:15
johnthetubaguycan we move that to the opendiscussion section?15:15
BobBallDevstack they should be the same - you just run a script for both15:15
ekarlso-sure :)15:15
BobBallLarge scale, XS should be easier - since you just deploy a VM15:15
johnthetubaguyno worries, its a bit subjective15:16
johnthetubaguy#topic Docs15:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:16
johnthetubaguydid people look up that blueprint15:16
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BobBallwhich one?15:17
BobBallthe one Mate is working on?15:17
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johnthetubaguynot sure, the doc blueprint mentioned yesterday15:19
johnthetubaguyI mean last week15:19
johnthetubaguyanyway I will take a look15:19
johnthetubaguy#action johnthetubaguy to look for xenapi doc blueprint and bugs15:19
johnthetubaguy#topic Bugs15:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:19
BobBalloh sorry yes that one15:19
BobBallno - I haven't seen it15:19
johnthetubaguyBobBall: you had a bug?15:19
BobBallCouple of very nice bugs from me!15:19
matelI'll be back in a sec.15:20
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1206154 in devstack "uninstall_package can remove dependencies" [Undecided,In progress]15:20
BobBallI like this one15:20
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johnthetubaguyyes, its nasty15:20
BobBallI'm working on getting devstack working with xenserver-core - and ran into this15:20
BobBallin summary - devstack removes python-lxml so that pip can install it later15:20
BobBallthe removal forces a removal of xen(!)15:21
BobBallwhich made me a very unhappy person15:21
BobBallso in order to run devstack in dom0 we need this fixed somehow15:21
BobBallbut the way to fix it is very unclear15:21
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johnthetubaguyyeah, not nice15:21
BobBallany comments on the bug or change would be appreciated15:21
BobBallSuggestions are needed I think15:21
johnthetubaguywell the suggested change looked OK ish to me15:21
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BobBallnot really - it breaks the package management system - you can't expect people to not do a yum update at some point which would remove Xen or install python-lxml15:22
BobBallmy change was naieve and I hadn't thought that far forward15:22
johnthetubaguyah, I see15:22
BobBallit fixes it in the short term but it'll still break long term15:22
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johnthetubaguywell the alternative is to run nova in a virtual env in devstack15:22
johnthetubaguyI gues15:23
BobBallnot just nova15:23
BobBall_everything_... :)15:23
BobBalland that's going to be a big devstack change15:23
johnthetubaguyhmm, maybe not as bad as you think15:23
BobBalllogical change even if not physical15:23
johnthetubaguyjust activate the virtual env on the first line, that might work15:23
johnthetubaguythe packages will just install stuff in the system, but nova will ignore those15:24
johnthetubaguyi mean everything, not just nova15:24
johnthetubaguyits how we run in production at rax15:24
johnthetubaguyvirtual env that is15:24
johnthetubaguyOK, more bugs?15:24
BobBallI had a second one but I've lost it now15:24
BobBalloh yes - had some fun with CentOS 6.415:25
BobBalljust generic fun though15:25
BobBallaround requests version 1.2.3 - installed by CentOS - and openstack/requiremenst restricts to <1.2.315:25
BobBallthis is something that's already been "fixed" and is working it's way through15:25
BobBallbut wanted to raise it for others to be aware15:25
johnthetubaguyOK, cool15:25
BobBallbecause it took me a while to understand it15:26
BobBalland I know that some at RAX might be poking at CentOS 6.4 somepoint ;)15:26
johnthetubaguy#info running devstack on dom0 for CentOS 6.4 is a WIP15:26
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johnthetubaguyI got a note from PVO about that stuff a few moments ago, but he is a bit before that15:26
johnthetubaguycool, any more for any more?15:26
matelim done15:27
BobBallI'm done15:27
BobBallI should(?) have more to report next week15:27
johnthetubaguyany progress towards gating this week?15:27
BobBallnah - that's starting on Monday I hope15:27
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BobBallalthough if this devstack in dom0 goes well15:27
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johnthetubaguy#topic Open Discussion15:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:27
johnthetubaguyany more for any more?15:27
BobBallI hope we can look at gating on xenserver-core with devstack in dom0 and a restricted set of tests just for nova / driver15:27
* BobBall looks at ekarlso- 15:28
johnthetubaguythat would be a very welcome addition to the gate :)15:28
BobBallbut it's still not XenServer - so I want both15:28
johnthetubaguyalthough, is that with some Xen simulator?15:28
BobBallfull on Xen ;)15:28
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johnthetubaguyI was worried you might say that, on what cloud can you get that going?15:29
BobBallit's just an HVM guest15:29
BobBallyou can't run nested HVM but you can run PV (e.g. cirros)15:29
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johnthetubaguyyes, that would do the trick I guess15:29
BobBallso in theory it should run on either - although I haven't tested on HP15:29
johnthetubaguyjust run in PV15:29
BobBallAnt has tested it on RAX15:29
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johnthetubaguyI know we can do HVM, just its not exposed15:30
johnthetubaguyanyways, getting distracted15:30
johnthetubaguyany more news?15:30
BobBallWell - this is open discussion :) unless ekarlso- turns up we can carry on chatting for another 30 minutes :D15:30
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johnthetubaguyprobably best just to ping people on #openstack15:31
johnthetubaguyI guess we are done15:31
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johnthetubaguyekarlso- ^15:31
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johnthetubaguythanks for today15:32
johnthetubaguytalk soon15:32
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings ||"15:32
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul 31 15:32:15 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:32
openstackMinutes (text):
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winston-1hi, cinder folks~16:00
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kmartinhi winston-116:00
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winston-1kmartin: hey :)16:00
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avishayhello hello16:01
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tjonesHi folks - i am tracy jones from vmware.  I'm attending  for our vmware folks who are working on cinder - but they are in India.  I work on the nova team primarily16:02
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winston-1tjones: hey16:02
avishaytjones: welcome16:02
tjonesthanks :-)16:02
winston-1tjones: it's only 11pm in India. Get them up. :)16:03
kartikadityaIm here16:03
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winston-1kartikaditya: ha~16:03
kartikadityawinston-1: hi there!16:03
jgriffithI'm late16:03
tjonesLOL - Hey Kartik !16:03
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jgriffith#start meeting cinder16:03
kartikadityatjones: hi16:03
jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:03
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 31 16:03:57 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:03
winston-1kartikaditya: how was the nested group config stuff?16:03
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:04
jgriffithagenda is here:
kartikadityawinston-1: I'm sticking to single nesting16:04
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jgriffithOk... let's roll16:04
winston-1kartikaditya: k16:04
jgriffith#topic Havana feature freeze16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Havana feature freeze (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:04
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jgriffithJust a reminder that we'll feature freeze August 2116:05
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jgriffithWe have talked in the past about having an earlier date for drivers16:05
jgriffithbut I'm not sure what's in progress on that front TBH16:05
* winston-1 gotta be quick to push QoS patch review...16:05
jgriffithwinston-1: I'm going to ask for help from folks on that and migration today16:06
avishayjgriffith: i thought i saw sept 4 somewhere?16:06
jgriffithwinston-1: I'd like to give those two top priority16:06
bswartzis that date the cutoff for things to be accepted for the cutoff for things to be submitted?16:06
jgriffithavishay: you did16:06
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jgriffithavishay: that's the cut date for H316:06
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jgriffithavishay: but we institute a feature freeze prior to that so I keep my sanity16:06
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avishayjgriffith: fine fine...keep your sanity...16:07
jgriffithand so folks like myself, thingee and winston-1 can NOT spend 36 hours baby-sitting jenkins16:07
winston-1jgriffith: yeah, we talked about that, just don't remember when~16:07
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jgriffithavishay: we've talked about this at length, the rush of drop my patch and run at midnight the day before cut is madening16:07
avishayI am working on the attached migration case...need to step on the gas16:08
avishayjgriffith: i agree16:08
jgriffithwinston-1: Think it was Grizzly 216:08
jgriffithSo anyway...  Just wanted to post a reminder to that so there are no  big surprises16:08
winston-1jgriffith: ah, must be. tough day it was16:08
jgriffithSo, if you have BP's that you were planning to get to but haven't started...16:09
jgriffithPLEASE PLEASE take a look and re-evaluate how realistic it is that you'll hit August 21'st16:09
avishayjgriffith: is sept 4 the deadline for merging?16:09
avishayjgriffith: and aug 21 for submitting?16:09
jgriffithavishay: yes16:10
jgriffithavishay: but that doesn't mean try tricks like submitting incomplete patches16:10
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jgriffithavishay: or wIP's16:10
avishayjgriffith: 2 weeks, very reasonable16:10
jgriffithand of coure as always there is an exception process16:10
jgriffithavishay: traditionally after the 3'rd milestone it's all about bug-fixes and docs16:11
avishayjgriffith: yes i know16:11
jgriffithany questions/thoughts on this?16:11
avishayjgriffith: nope, +116:11
bswartzjgriffith: sounds reasonable +116:11
jgriffith#topic H3 blueprint updates16:12
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jgriffithI've culled a few things out already based on lack of updates or communication16:12
jgriffithif your BP was one of them and you disagree give me a shout and we'll work it out16:13
kmartinanyone from Brocade in the meeting today? they thought they would have a patch to submit this Friday for the FC zone manager16:13
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jgriffithThe items I'm most concerned about here are the DB changes16:13
jgriffithand I don't think there's anybody here to represent from Mirantis16:13
jgriffithkmartin: do they have a BP?16:13
jgriffithkmartin: I don't see one16:13
skolathuHi, This is Santhosh from Brocade16:14
kmartinjgriffith: they did not sure where it is16:14
jgriffithskolathu: hey there...16:14
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kmartinskolathu: what happen to the BP that Varma entered16:14
jgriffithskolathu: any info regarding FC work from your side?16:14
skolathuTo give you an update on the FC Zone Mgr BP, we are working on the framework and some of the testing is going on now16:14
skolathuWe are hoping to share some of it with partners by next week before checking in the code..16:15
jgriffithskolathu: Can you get a bp posted, and do you think you'll have it ready by August 21?16:15
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skolathuI'll sync up with Varma today and close on posting the BP.16:16
kmartinjgriffith: skolathu here it is:
thingeejgriffith, skolathu: since I have no bp to reference. if it's just a framework and test, is there a point in rushing?16:16
jgriffithkmartin: Ohhh  ancient history :)16:16
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skolathujgriffith: Aug 21 should be realistic.16:16
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thingeejgriffith, skolathu: to clarify, what's going ot take advantage of it at this point?16:16
kmartinskolathu: please update the BP with it's current status16:16
skolathukmartin: Sure. Will do.16:17
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jgriffiththingee: IIRC it's more infra management as opposed to drivers using/consuming16:17
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jgriffiththingee: so getting rid of the current paradigm where everything is in the FC zone16:17
kmartinthingee: all FC drivers will get this for free16:18
thingeekmartin, jgriffith: got it16:18
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jgriffithcool cool16:19
jgriffiththingee: we'll kinda have to wait and see what it looks like :)16:19
winston-1kmartin, skolathu will it be 5k+ code? ;)16:19
jgriffithanybody have anything on the netapp/nfs QoS BP?16:20
avishayjgriffith: i'm giving migration for attached volumes a big push for aug 21 -
bswartzjgriffith: work on that is under way now16:20
skolathuwinston-1: It should be much lesser..:)16:20
jgriffithbswartz: cool... can you add an assignee and update the bp please?16:20
winston-1skolathu: good to know :)16:20
jgriffithavishay: if you get there we'll add it in16:20
avishayjgriffith: ok16:21
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jgriffithbswartz: also the "Efficient image cloning" one needs a status update16:21
jgriffithIt's listed as "Not Started" still16:21
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jgriffithOther than that it *looks* like most things are at least in progress16:23
jgriffithIf you have a bp and you're not going to get to it let me know sooner, rather than later16:23
jgriffith#topic critical reviews16:24
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jgriffithSo I mentioned there are a number of things I'd like to get through review today/tomorrow16:25
jgriffith1. winston-1 's QoS patch16:25
jgriffith2. avishay 's migration code16:25
jgriffith3. the various DB patches16:25
avishaymigration code?16:25
jgriffith4. harlowja 's state machine code16:25
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jgriffithavishay: what?16:26
jgriffithavishay: DOH16:26
jgriffiththat one's done16:26
avishayjgriffith: :)16:26
avishayjgriffith: i thought maybe it got reverted or scared for a second :)16:26
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thingeejgriffith: to finish winston-1's patch, we should probably talk about concerns with dict schema?16:26
winston-1i thought avishay got 'attached' migration up.16:26
jgriffiththingee: good point16:27
jgriffithwinston-1: he did... my bad16:27
avishaywinston-1: i'm working on attached now...some issues with the nova code :-/16:27
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jgriffiththingee: where was that thread/bug16:27
jgriffiththingee: I'm assuming you're referring to the scoping discussion of keys in the dict?16:28
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thingeejgriffith: it was a concern you just raised to me about the patch.16:28
jgriffiththingee: ohh... different topic16:28
jgriffiththingee: :)16:28
zhiyanjgriffith: r/o attaching code? it close to get merge IMO.16:29
jgriffithSo I put comments in a review but nobody else seemed to agree or have an opinion16:29
* thingee checks the comments16:29
jgriffithbut in short IIRC I thought we had a discussion about QoS being a special case of extra-specs16:30
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jgriffithie just a duplicated of extra-specs specifically for QoS settings16:30
jgriffithlike: qos-specs16:30
jgriffithbut it seemed that I may have been the only one who thought that :)16:30
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jgriffithI was mostly concerned about adding unused columns to the DB16:31
winston-1jgriffith: so would you like 'qos_specs' to be in its own table?16:31
bswartzjgriffith: we want to use extra_specs for QoS stuff too16:31
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avishaybswartz: can you elaborate please?16:31
jgriffithwinston-1: bswartz so I *thought* we were heading towards a qos-specs table16:32
jgriffiththat could then be dynamic and used for rate-limiting, or backend IOP's as well as hypervisor16:32
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bswartzwell if the works more or less the same (the new table) then we can use that -- in the short term we will be added qos based on extra-specs16:32
winston-1jgriffith: there's no unused columns any more, just a brand new table for rate-limit; I can add another new table for qos specs, but I feel essentially it's identical to extra_specs16:32
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jgriffithwinston-1: yeah, I saw you updated that I need to go back and look again to be honest16:33
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jgriffithwinston-1: but yes, it would be an exact duplicate of extra-specs... which I know sounds silly but16:33
jgriffithwinston-1: that would allow you to assign/re-assign qos-specs to types without messing with the other extra-specs info16:34
jgriffithwinston-1: so it wouldn't impact things like filtering specifications, or backend-name etc16:34
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jgriffithwinston-1: but like I said, maybe it was a dream that I had :)16:34
jgriffithit doesn't sound like anybody else had that impression...16:34
jgriffithDuncanT-: around?16:34
winston-1jgriffith: sorry don't get the last one. let's talk offline after meeting16:34
winston-1yeah, where's DuncanT-16:35
jgriffithwinston-1: sure...16:35
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winston-1I missed DuncanT-'re review.16:35
jgriffithwinston-1: so if folks like/prefer it I'm fine.  Certainly won't block it16:35
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jgriffithOne other item I didn't call out.. encryption16:36
winston-1jgriffith: it'd be good if DuncanT- said something16:36
jgriffithThe encryption patch has been twisting around for a bit, we should get some review time on it16:36
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winston-1jgriffith: i'll spend some time on it, and harlowja's taskflow as well16:37
jgriffithwhether you're in favor or not etc doesn't matter, should voice that in the review16:37
jgriffithwinston-1: thanks... those are two difficult ones :)16:37
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avishayjgriffith: about the encryption... DuncanT- and I brought up similar points - there is no documentation with the high-level flow16:37
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jgriffithavishay: :)16:38
avishayjgriffith: and i won't even mention "where the *#$@ is key management" :)16:38
jgriffithavishay: sorry... missed your comment you didn't *vote*16:38
bpbavishay:  We can try to get some into to you to help clarify the encryption flow16:39
jgriffithand I didn't look this morning to see DuncanT- had updated as well16:39
jgriffithOk... so we're good, folks are looking at that.  I was worried it was sitting idle16:39
bpbavishay:  The key management patch that was in Nova has just been added to Cinder.  We'd like some reviiew of that.16:39
jgriffithzhiyan: yes, I'm hoping the R/O patch lands this week (your version of it)16:39
avishaybpb: there needs to be a document showing all the flow with nova and cinder16:40
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avishaybpb: without it it's like doing a puzzle without knowing what it's supposed to look like16:40
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zhiyanjgriffith: my next step is multiple-attaching change, do you think I need create a new bp for it? or just reuse existing bp(s).16:41
jgriffiththingee: thanks!16:41
bpbavishay:  We'll try to provide that flow to you.  BTW, the key management interface patch is here
jgriffithavishay: winston-1 did you catch the link thingee pointed out ^^16:41
jgriffithzhiyan: we can re-use but need to get with current owner and work it out with them16:41
thingeebpb: is this still accurate?
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avishaythingee: "Updated: 5 Feb 2013"16:42
winston-1jgriffith: yup, got it16:42
jgriffithOk... should we continue discussing encryption or move on?16:42
zhiyanjgriffith: agreed, but in my case, seems owner have no plan to start work...16:43
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jgriffithand come back to it if time allows?16:43
bpbthingee:  Yes, that's basically still accurate.  There may be a few small updates.16:43
jgriffithzhiyan: I'll reassign it to you16:43
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avishayWe can move on, please just more details on the encryption flows and I'll be happy to review.16:43
thingeejgriffith: move on. we know it has to be reviewed, and bpb is going to mkae updates.16:43
jgriffithzhiyan: kmartin
jgriffithOk... last topic16:44
jgriffith#topic driver certification16:44
*** openstack changes topic to "driver certification (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:44
thingeebpb: once you've made updates, can you inform people in #openstack-cinder?16:44
jgriffithfor reference:
bpbthingee:  Yes, I'll do that16:44
winston-1exiting topic!16:44
kmartingriffith: we where held up with the VMware guys getting the nova side done, I can reach out to16:45
avishaybpb: please put a note in the review as well16:45
jgriffithkmartin: I think zhiyan is saying he's willing to take that and has some code for it16:45
bpbavishay:  Will do16:45
kmartinjgriffith: that's fine16:45
jgriffithOk... so we'll do the driver cert16:45
jgriffithend topic16:45
jgriffithhaha :)16:45
avishaybpb: thanks!16:45
winston-1that's even faster than a +2 & approved.16:46
jgriffithwinston-1: :)16:46
thingeejgriffith: don't think anyone was opposed to the idea.16:46
jgriffiththingee: didn't seem like it, hemna was the only one who raised concerns16:46
thingeejust some unknowns need to be discussed16:46
jgriffithanyway, I just wanted to mention it and talk about what I've started to do so far16:46
* hemna is a trouble maker16:46
jgriffithindeed he is16:46
jgriffithSo to start we're talking really simple...16:47
winston-1where's hemna ?16:47
avishaylurking :)16:47
jgriffithadding a directory: 'cinder/functional/'16:47
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jgriffithThis would assume a clean devstack install with your driver configured and ready for use16:47
jgriffithThen is simply runs tempest/api/volume/* tests16:48
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jgriffithFrom there we'll need to do some things like git show/status of the dirs to check what you actually ran16:48
jgriffithcollect the log and .conf files16:49
jgriffithbundle it all up in to a tar-ball16:49
hemnawe have a custom devstack local branch here that starts devstack, configures our drivers and restarts cinder.   I suppose I could create another branch for running this test and taring up the results automatically.16:49
jgriffithhemna: the idea would be to NOT use customization with the exception of driver config16:49
jgriffithhemna: the point is that I'd like to see us run the same tests we require the cinder code to run in the gates without breaking because of driver-x16:50
jgriffithwe can grow this and modify it over time depending on what does and doesn't work16:50
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hemnaand by custom, it's our that just installs an image, public keys and configures our drivers and restarts cinder.16:50
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avishayjgriffith: add /etc/cinder/* to tarball?16:50
avishayjgriffith: actually no...16:50
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jgriffithavishay: the main interest is just /etc/cinder/cinder.conf I think16:51
avishayjgriffith: it might have IP/user/password in it16:51
hemnawe'll have to do 2 runs, one for FC and iSCSI16:51
hemnaand another for LeftHand I suppose as well.16:51
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jgriffithavishay: hemna yes and yes16:52
hemnaavishay, our driver configs do include username password info...16:52
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hartsocksanything else there?17:19
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hartsocksBefore I hand it to garyk's backports issues...17:20
hartsocksI've not moved
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1194018 in nova "Can't use vmware distributed virtual switch with nova" [Undecided,New]17:20
hartsocksout of "New" because I don't understand it.17:20
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hartsocksAny guidance on this from garyk or danwent (who know networking better than I do)?17:21
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danwentno idea on my end17:21
garykhartsocks: i have yet to look at that problem.17:22
danwentseems like tang may know something17:22
danwentwe haven't been seeing it in any of our deployments, perhaps b/c we mainly use quantum17:22
hartsocksgaryk: mind if I assign that to you then? (My plate is full)17:23
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garykhartsocks: sure17:23
garykmy cup runeth over :)17:23
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hartsocksgaryk I know you had a bug list to discuss17:24
* hartsocks listens17:24
garykhartsocks: yeah. we backported nova/utils.py17:24
garykhartsocks: sorry
danwentgaryk: yeah, i wouldn't wory about the networking issue for now.  i'd leave it unassigned in case someone else wants to grab it17:25
garykproblem here is that the rpc versioning may be problematic. i am trying to understand what needs to be done to address this.17:25
garykdanwent: ok.17:25
danwentis that backport critical?17:26
danwentit seems like the right direction, but is something broken if we don't have it backported?  may be better to just abandon if it is really tricky17:26
hartsocksWhen I looked at this (before backport) I noted the VMwareAPI change was trivial:
garykdanwent: i do not think that it is a critical bug.17:27
hartsocksI think that trivial-ness kind of puts it in the bucket of "nice to have" things.17:27
danwentif backport is a pain, I'd drop it then17:27
garykdanwent: ok, will do.17:28
hartsocksgaryk: any thing else?17:28
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garyknothing comes to mind at the moment17:28
hartsocks#topic blueprints17:29
danwentwe need to create a blueprint for the nova-side of the cinder work kartik is doing17:29
tjonesyes - i will work on that friday17:29
tjoneshe's already done all the work - looks like i can just reference it17:29
hartsocks#action tjones draft blueprint for nova-side cinder work17:29
danwentyeah, i think the blueprint can just point to his existing spec17:30
garyktjones: i'd be happy to do the integration work with you if you want17:30
hartsockstjones: thanks for picking that up17:30
tjonesthanks gary - i'd appreciate the help17:30
danwentyeah, my sense is that there will likely be non-trivial testing work to be done as well17:30
danwentunit tests, etc.17:30
danwentas he termed his initial version a "proof-of-concept"17:30
danwentbefore we post this blueprint, we should make sure the cinder blueprint is accepted for H-317:31
tjonesand for that we need the legal thing done17:31
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hartsocksokay, that answers one of my questions.17:31
danwentwe just need the blueprint assigned to H-317:31
danwentwhich is just a matter of getting jgriffith to do that17:31
tjonesjgriffith (i think) is waiting on the legal review17:32
danwentbut its likely that nova would not accept the attach work for H-3 unless the cinder driver was already targeted.17:32
hartsocksjgriffith: you still hanging around?17:32
tjoneshis last comment was "Checked in with Kartik and things are pretty much set here, just awaiting review from legal team at VMware."17:32
jgriffithhartsocks: tjones I'm happy to target it17:32
jgriffithI'll do that no and assume everything will fall into place :)17:32
danwentjgriffith: thanks17:33
tjonesjgriffith: thanks!17:33
hartsocksjgriffith: thanks for hanging around :-)17:33
danwentyeah, we just want an indication from the cinder team that they plan to accept this, so the nova team recognizes that the attach work also needs to lang in H-3.  thanks.17:33
danwentlang -> land17:33
hartsocksSo all this (new BP on nova-side too) should try and land inside H3?17:33
jgriffithall set17:33
hartsocksany thing else on this cross nova/cinder stuff?17:34
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hartsocksAnyone from Kiran's or Yaguang's teams hanging around?17:35
danwentjgriffith: much appreciated17:35
yaguangI am here :)17:35
danwenthartsocks: yes, as we want it to be included in the havana release17:35
hartsocksyaguang: hey :-)17:36
hartsocksyaguang: BTW did you know anything about ??17:36
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1194018 in nova "Can't use vmware distributed virtual switch with nova" [Undecided,New]17:36
hartsocks(off topic)17:37
yaguangsorry, but I have not  such a test environment  to  test  this bug :(17:37
hartsocksyaguang: okay17:37
hartsocks(on topic)17:37
hartsocksyaguang: are you still targeting H-3 for this?17:38
yaguangyes, I'd like someone to review this17:38
hartsocksWhen I see several −1's on a review, I tend to over-look it for the time being.17:39
yaguangfrom the comments, one  concern is that  the image cache policy is useless when using vcenter  , this is what I am not sure17:40
hartsocksinteresting point.17:40
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hartsocksIIRC: we don't act differently based on the image-cache policy… anywhere in the driver17:41
garykhartsocks: i am sorry but i need to head on home. have a good evening guys17:42
yaguangI think as long as the  instance  files are stored in the datastore, it saves time to launch instnace17:42
hartsocksgaryk: thanks for hanging around! :-)17:42
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hartsocksyaguang: yes… it's definitely a performance booster...17:43
yaguangthe image cache policy benefits  no matter we use  vcenter or not,17:43
hartsocks… for the group ...17:44
yaguangas  image files are cached in the datastores that  also holds the instance files17:44
* hartsocks thinking17:45
yaguangI want your guys  review and confirm this works well with both ESXI  and  vcenter  driver17:45
hartsocks#action hartsocks todo functional review of
hartsocksI'll commit myself to spending some time with this then.17:46
hartsocksI don't know as this is a priority for most users though.17:46
hartsocksI think it would be better to do this right and let it slip past H-3 than to get it in sooner.17:47
hartsocksDoes anyone disagree with that view on that?17:47
* hartsocks listens17:48
hartsocksyaguang: do you have any clients/customers after this feature?17:48
yaguangtwo core reviewers gives  comments , both are about their concerns , Michael Still said  Overall this looks good to me.17:48
hartsocksyaguang: okay, so this is further along than I thought.17:49
hartsocksyaguang: sounds like H-3 is pretty realistic provided I can get you a full review17:50
yaguangnot yet, I hope if anyone from vmware can  have a test on this17:50
yaguangto have a practical experience of the  benefits of this feature17:51
hartsocksanything else here on this BP?17:51
yaguanghartsocks, thanks a lot17:51
hartsocksis Kiran around?17:52
* hartsocks listens17:52
yaguangwhen testing using the code, I fails to  attach the second disk to instance17:52
hartsockskirankv: ping17:53
yaguangone is root disk which can be attached, the second ephemeral disk aways fails to attach17:53
hartsocksyaguang: yeah, that's a whole "epic"17:54
yaguangI can't figure out  what's wrong  , it's caused by  wrong  API  call or parameters error17:54
hartsocksyaguang: your patch is intended as a fix to that right? So I'll spend some time with it (Next Tuesday likely) and see if I can't spot how to make it work.17:55
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yaguangall other features  are works as expected17:55
hartsocksyaguang: I'll email you on what I find.17:55
yaguangok , thanks :)17:56
tjonesyaguang: what's the error ?  do you happen to remember it?17:56
hartsocksyaguang: tjones is our resident vmdk expert :-)17:56
tjonesor PM me if you like and we can move on17:56
hartsocksBTW: '/'msg username to do a PM17:57
hartsockswithout the quotes17:57
yaguangthe error message is something like  a common error  acours , parameter error17:57
yaguangwhen call reconfigure  to  add a disk17:57
hartsocksyaguang: tjones: my expectation is this is that inventory issue where the driver doesn't respect the tree-nature of vCenter's inventory.17:58
hartsocksbut I'll need to run it to see.17:58
tjoneshartsocks: ah - i see just wondering if it's the same sort of param issue i have seen before17:58
yaguanghartsocks, I am not using vcenter just  ESXi 5.017:58
hartsocksyaguang: tjones: I may be looking for nails :-)17:59
hartsocksyaguang: tjones: that is I see so many problems tied to that.17:59
hartsocksyaguang: tjones: let's table this and I'll email you both on a thread based on what I find.18:00
hartsockswe're out of time.18:00
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hartsocksThe room at #openstack-vmware is open for off-the-record discussions any time.18:00
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hartsocks#startmeeting test18:49
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 31 18:49:28 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:49
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: test)"18:49
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'test'18:49
hartsocks#endmeeting test18:49
*** openstack changes topic to "driver certification (Meeting topic: cinder)"18:49
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul 31 18:49:38 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:49
openstackMinutes (text):
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shardy#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 31 20:00:45 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:00
shardy#topic rollcall20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
shardyHi, who's around?20:01
bgorskiHi all20:01
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zanebI'm awake20:01
kebrayo/ present20:01
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randallburthi all20:02
shardysdake, therve around?20:02
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shardyOk lets get started20:02
shardy#topic Review last week's actions20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)"20:02
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shardy#info shardy to send mission ML statement20:03
shardyI didn't actually do that..20:03
shardy#action shardy to send mission ML statement20:03
shardy#info randallburt resource catalog bp grooming20:03
shardyrandallburt: did that happen?20:03
randallburtResource blueprints per last weeks meeting:20:03
randallburtAlready in the pipe:20:03
randallburtNew based on meeting minutes:20:03
randallburtLet me know if I've missed anything. The new ones are targeted at heat-next, so there's room for discussion clarification and/or breaking down into smaller chunks20:03
shardylol, pastebomb ;)20:04
zanebbtw all I added my competing mission statement proposal to the etherpad20:04
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randallburtI was ready ;)20:04
zanebwhich I no longer remember the url of20:04
shardythanks randallburt20:04
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radixd'oh, here20:04
shardyIf anyone else has input to the mission pls add there and I'll try to combine and send something to the ML20:05
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shardyanything else from anyone from last weeks meeting?20:05
topolwhat is "symbol manipulation"???20:05
zanebtopol: symbol manipulation is programming20:06
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shardyzaneb: I think that's a bit abstract for a mission statement, but I like the second part20:07
radixso then "To harness the tools of programming"?20:07
topol+1 on being a little too abstract20:07
topolwhat was wrong with the first mission statement???20:07
sdakeya a  bit abstract20:07
shardytopol: everybody hadn't had their 2c's, clearly ;)20:08
sdakemission statement should be direct and in your face20:08
zanebso, I said "symbol manipulation" because I want to include stuff like the Heat Horizon stuff that's being worked on20:08
randallburtIMO its got to have the word orchestration in it. The first one seems more direct, IMO.20:08
asalkeldserious bikeshedding20:08
zanebi.e. visual symbol manipulation20:08
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topolrandallburt +120:08
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randallburtLets not get fancy and just call it like it is.20:08
shardyzaneb: that's part of Horizon's mission, it just happens to be contributed by those interested in Heat20:08
zanebthat's true, but we want Heat to be a tool that supports that20:09
shardyLets move on, please add etherpad comments and I'll try to distil tomorrow20:09
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shardy#topic h3 blueprint prioritization20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "h3 blueprint prioritization (Meeting topic: heat)"20:09
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shardySo I've been trying to defer some stuff as we had 37 pending bps for h320:10
shardybut we still have 30, and we only delivered 8 for h220:10
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sdakeh3 = superman time20:10
shardywe have about a month before feature freeze, and need time to review stuff20:10
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shardyso if your BP is not going to land in the next 3 weeks, please tell me and/or defer it20:11
shardyThis plan has already been called crazy unrealistic by ttx, so we probably need to bump and deprioritize quite a lot of stuff20:11
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stevebakerI remain unrealistically optimistic!20:12
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radixare all 30 of them assigned?20:12
radixI guess so20:12
sdakelol stevebaker20:12
topolthats a lot of symbolic manipulation left to go20:12
shardyOk, well I won't go through it all now, but also please make sure the Implementation is set, if stuff is "Not Started", I'm gonna start bumping to heat-future20:13
shardyAny comments or questions on H3 or the release schedule?20:13
* radix changes his to Good Progress, hopefully that's accurate :)20:13
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stevebakershouldn't multiple-engines be marked as started and assigned to !asalkeld20:14
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asalkeldsomeone else has started on it20:15
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randallburtjasond:  is looking into it20:15
shardywho's taken that, was it jasond?20:15
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shardyOk, I'll reassign20:15
asalkeld(cool by me)20:15
asalkeldI'll jump in and help as soon as I am done with this monitoring stuff20:16
sdakeperhaps we should jsut remove multiple engines from h320:16
sdakeand focus on that for all of I20:16
stevebakerit is being worked on20:16
jasondasalkeld: cool, i'm keeping notes on my progress here
shardyOk, cool, well lets move anything which looks at all unlikely to heat-future, better to pull them back into the plan than to defer everything late ;)20:17
randallburtnot a horrible idea, though I think there's progress to be made in the next few weeks20:17
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asalkeldlets do what we can20:17
sdakeasalkeld had a good idea for mvoing everything into the api and getting rid of the engine, think that makes sense for i :)20:17
randallburtwe can "reduce" scope and have new, focused tasks for I20:17
shardyYeah, moving target, we can defer and raise smaller sub-bp's if needed20:18
zanebsdake: I don't agree, I bet nova wishes they had our architecture right now20:18
randallburtyou know, we could just make everything a celery task and…20:19
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* randallburt ducks20:19
sdakemore deps ugh20:19
shardyrandallburt: nooo! ;)20:19
shardyanyway, onwards..20:19
shardy#topic Removal/moving of heat-boto/heat-cfn/heat-watch client tools20:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Removal/moving of heat-boto/heat-cfn/heat-watch client tools (Meeting topic: heat)"20:19
sdakeso missed last weeks meeting20:19
sdakemy apologies20:19
sdakei think we are sorted here with stevebaker and I20:19
sdakeplan is to move everything into heat-cli20:20
shardysdake: we did discuss this, but I wanted to make sure we've agreeed a way forward20:20
sdakeand not package the boto/etc20:20
sdakeas long as boto/heat-cfntools/heat-watch are not the only things in a repo, wea re good to go20:20
asalkeldare we putting it into stackforge20:20
sdakeya stackforge ++20:20
asalkeldand what else is going to be in the repo20:20
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sdakeif its in stackforge I have no objections re packaging20:21
stevebakeryes, stackforge. I need to refresh the review20:21
shardyOk, but all that's going to be in there is heat-boto?20:21
sdakeheat-watch, heat-cfn20:21
shardyas we were going to remove heat-cfn, based on discussion last week20:21
sdakei see20:21
stevebakeryes, eventually, it is just a code move as the first step20:21
shardyheat-watch will die after CM integration finished20:21
shardyheat-boto can replace heat-cfn (it's actually the same code)20:22
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shardyso do we need a new repo for one CLI tool?20:22
shardycan't it just stay in master, e.g in tools?20:22
asalkeldREADME: unmaintained dev tools20:22
sdakemaster in tools wfm too20:22
shardySeems easier than new repo, stackforge etc20:23
sdakefeels like a alot of wasted work for stevebaker tho20:23
* sdake sorry stevebaker for suggesting it in the first place20:23
shardystevebaker: what's your objection?20:23
asalkeld(he is busy head slamming)20:24
stevebakerIts all done, I'm happy to do a python release.20:24
sdakeasalkeld hopefully just face palming :)20:24
kebraythis may be a dumb question, but what does Boto do that Heat doesn't already do or have included in its own CLI/API?20:24
shardystevebaker: I'm just not sure who will use it, we should encourage people to use the one-true python-heatclient20:24
sdakekebray apparently it has high quality debugging functionality :)20:25
shardykebray: nothing20:25
asalkeld(it is maintained)20:25
shardybut it is a useful dev/debug tool for the CFN compatible API20:25
kebrayHeat isn't maintained?   How many of us are here in IRC?20:25
asalkeldwe don't want to maintain that code20:25
shardyit's of no use to end users at all20:25
stevebakeronly heat core developers will use it likely - I really don't see the problem with a new repo20:25
asalkeld(just the aws client)20:25
randallburtand boto should just work. why maintain two implementations of the same thing20:25
sdakenew repo is preferrable - get it out of the code base that gets packaged20:26
shardyIf only heat core developers will use it, surely it's more convenient to leave it in master?20:26
shardysdake: It can be in the tarball/master and not get packaged20:26
zanebkebray: it's meaningless to say we can write a client that works with our own cfn-compatible api. we want it to actually be compatible20:26
sdakelike I said, master tools not packaged wfm too20:26
stevebakerthey have zero test coverage. having it in the core repo is a form of endorsement that they should be consumed by users20:26
kebrayzaneb:  but, "our" client could also interact with CFN, thereby showing it is compatible.20:26
asalkeldI think we spent way too much time deliberating20:27
kebrayone client.. why two?20:27
sdakewhy not three?20:27
kebrayanyway.. I am probably missing context.. I can take this to the main heat channel.20:27
shardykebray: one client talks to heat-api (python-heatclient), one talks to heat-api-cfn (heat-boto)20:27
zanebkebray: but it never has, and why would we invest time in doing that when boto exists?20:27
shardyboto has six *million* downloads from pypi:20:28
shardywhy would we reinvent our own AWS client lib?20:28
kebrayah… ok, context cleared.  makes sense now.20:28
shardyOk, lets move on20:29
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shardy#topic Reorganize heat-templates repo into per-distro directories for F17/F18/F19/U12/RHEL20:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Reorganize heat-templates repo into per-distro directories for F17/F18/F19/U12/RHEL (Meeting topic: heat)"20:29
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randallburtsounds good to me20:29
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sdakeso right now our tempaltes don't work on f18-f1920:29
sdakeand templates don't work cross distro20:30
sdakeso make a top level distro dir in the cfn dir20:30
sdakeand put the templates in the correct dirs20:30
shardySounds reasonable, but could end up being a lot more maintenance overhead20:30
sdakeand work to update our tempaltes20:30
shardyconsidering we can't/don't really maintain what we have all that well..20:30
sdakewell we aren't maintaining them at all now20:30
asalkeldat somepoint our hot templates should be distro agnostic20:30
sdakethis would force that20:30
stevebakerit seems that there is a good case for reorganising by heat release (grizzly, havana...)20:30
sdakeasalkeld at that point we could revisit this decision20:30
kebrayIsn't the goal to soon get to cross-distro templates?20:31
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randallburtasalkeld:  well, they *could* be written that way. I hope we don't lose flexibly in that regard.20:31
shardysdake: the templates shouldn't change between releases (the CFN ones at least..)?20:31
asalkeldI think we need to seperate out the guest config somehow20:31
sdakef18 for example adds some firewalld stuff20:31
randallburtkebray:  sure, but not *all* templates have to be cross distro. For some that's not even desireable20:31
sdakethis means all our f17 templates dont' work on f18/f1920:31
sdakethey dont' work on rhel, even though rhel is an image type20:31
sdakethey are just generally poorly maintained20:32
sdakemaybe that is an orthognal discussion :)20:32
shardysdake: one alternative would be to do better at keeping them working on latest-stable of e.g Fedora20:32
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sdakeyes but we have hard time tracking which ones we have sorted on the latest distro vs those that dont20:32
sdakewhereas with dirs, if its in the f19 dir, its been tested20:32
shardysdake: if they are generally poorly maintained, how will adding more help?20:32
asalkeld(I think it's a good plan, but we should try to make them more portable too)20:33
sdakethe f17 templates were miantined well20:33
sdakebut we never went back and ported them to f18/f1920:33
sdakewe need to do that20:33
shardyOk, well we can try it and see how it works out I guess :)20:33
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sdakethe only thing that brought this up is I have been putting the distro in templates I write20:34
sdakein the filename20:34
sdaketo help indicate what it works on20:34
sdakedirectory makes more sense20:34
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zaneb+1 for trying that20:35
sdakefor trying which?20:35
asalkeldmaybe impl. zanes Fn::File idea to be able to put userdata/metadata20:35
asalkeldin different files20:35
asalkeldso the main template is portable20:35
shardysdake: well lets try it for the cfn example templates, and aim to have the HOT templates more portable via the software config abstraction discussed in software-configuration-provider20:35
zanebtrying the different directories20:36
sdakewe can always revisit when hot goes live20:36
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shardyOk, cool, any other comments on this or shall we move on?20:36
asalkeldon and up20:36
stevebakerI still think the top level directory of heat-templates should relate to the audience of who will be using20:36
sdakei'll work out the move patch20:36
sdakestevebaker could you expand?  You mean havana/griz/etc?20:37
stevebakeras in demonstration of features (wordpress 10 ways...), production templates for specific apps, templates for testing only...20:37
sdakeatm I think we would end up with demo templates only atm :)20:38
shardystevebaker: The problem with that is then we're not just providing examples, but people will expect "production ready" application templates20:38
sdakebut seems like a good idea to me20:38
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shardyheat-core don't want that responsibility IMO20:38
shardybut others interested in that could contribute to heat-templates I guess20:39
sdakeshardy agree - should be community responsibility20:39
stevebakeranything flagged as a production template will be adopted by someone to keep it that way20:39
randallburtI think we should be pretty explicit that we're providing examples of features, not something one hangs their hats on20:39
sdakeI have read several blogs people want  to build businesses just making templates20:39
shardywhich I think is what we discussed when we separated the templates into their own repo20:39
randallburtthey should *work* sure, but not have to be bullet proof examples of how to deploy wordpress20:39
sdakei think our examples should all work well20:40
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shardystevebaker: So we'd need process to align templates with maintainers etc20:40
sdakeand wordpress seems like a simple app to deal with20:40
kebrayrandallburt:  I disagree… there should be at least a couple templates the Heat dev team guarantees work, and has real world value… more than just demonstration.20:40
randallburtfor a very mangaged definition of "well"20:40
shardylong term, good plan, short term too much effort IMHO20:40
randallburtshardy:  agreed.20:40
topolis there a contrib directory where folks can contribute production templates or other templates?20:40
kebrayAt least for the short term… to help adoption.20:40
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shardytopol: that has been discussed but not yet20:40
sdaketopol they can just do a review request for the cfn dir20:40
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kebrayWe need to build an ecosystem… not just a tool.20:41
topolkebray +120:41
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shardywe could add one, and put a README in there saying they're community maintained20:41
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randallburtbut we still need to be diligent then on stuff that stops being maintained. othewise #heat gets flooded with support requests for templates that don't have anyone riding herd on them20:42
shardyrandallburt: That is basically my worry too20:42
kebrayrandallburt:  agreed… the list should be small.20:42
shardyAnyway, shall we move on and follow up on the ML?20:43
shardy#topci Open Discussion20:43
randallburtsounds good20:43
shardy#topic Open Discussion20:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"20:43
shardyzaneb: fat fingers ;)20:43
stevebakeranything for me? I need to go do the school run20:43
sdakejasond had a complaint about the cloudinit-write-files bp20:43
shardysdake: complaint?20:44
shardystevebaker: o/20:44
sdakeapparently write-files doesn't work with cloudinit0.620:44
kebrayTopic:  removal of AWS stuff… I know HOT solves a lot of that.. but, I think there's still a reference to AWS in the UserData section with heat-cfn… no?20:44
jasondit depends on cloud-init 0.7 now, which broke the cloud server resource20:44
jasondso are we officially discontinuing support for cloud-init 0.6?20:44
stevebakerdoes that mean ubuntu is broken too?20:44
randallburtkebray:  which should remain for compatability unless/until native tooling gets sorted (IMO)20:44
jasondstevebaker: yes20:44
shardysdake: hmm, so which distro's is that a problem for?20:44
sdakeya u12.04 broke20:44
jasondCentOS 6.420:45
stevebakerhmm, might have to back that out20:45
zanebnothing important then :D20:45
shardyNo RHEL 6.4 is 0.7.120:45
sdakeya I tend to agree re backout20:45
jasondshardy: not the package in EPEL20:45
sdakealthough I like the change, perhaps an optional feature20:45
shardyF18+ is 0.7.2, F17 is nearly EOL (or is?)20:45
sdakef17 is eol20:45
shardyjasond: It's in RHEL common for RHEL 620:45
randallburtagreed, its a good change, just breaks with some older but still "supported" distros20:45
jasondshardy: i'll check20:46
shardyjasond: So in theory should be removed from EPEL at some point20:46
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sdakeso question I think this centers around , is what is the lowest level of cloudinit we intend to marry ourselves to with heat for grizzly20:47
shardysdake: s/grizzly/havana?20:48
randallburthavana? or was this going to be back ported?20:48
sdakesorry havana20:48
sdakebrain damage :)20:48
shardyIf so then I say 0.7.220:48
shardyF18+ and RHEL 6.5+, not sure about Ubuntu, we'll need to check20:48
sdakethis makes ubuntu 12.04 non-functional20:48
shardysdake: even with the cloud-archives repos?20:49
sdakenot sure about cloud-archives repo20:49
shardyOk, well we can follow up and investigate I guess20:49
jasondi don't see it
shardythere were several fixes which we need related to metadata retrieval, which means 0.7.2 works and 0.7.1 in some cases doesn't20:50
sdakewell if it should be reverted, can you file a bug shardy and assign to me20:50
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shardyOk, yeah jasond pls raise a bug with details and we'll work out what to do20:51
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shardyanyone have anything else?20:51
jasondshardy: will do20:51
bgorskiI have aquestion about bp with multi region support20:52
shardybgorski: ok20:52
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bgorskiI updated the wiki page accordingly with the ML discussion20:53
bgorskiAnd one big problem I see right now is that the only way right now to pass template for nested stack is by url20:54
zanebbgorski: I replied to your ML post already20:55
zanebshort version: you are SOL20:55
zanebsorry :(20:55
zanebrandallburt: is one of the blueprints floating around covering the {"File": ...} feature?20:56
randallburtzaneb:  not to my knowlege20:56
zanebmaybe that needs to be number 3120:56
randallburtIIRC it was discussed on the ML, but not bp afaik20:56
shardyFiles section of environment?20:57
randallburtIIRC, you're working on template upload?20:57
randallburtis that what we mean or something different?20:57
asalkeldwell it's not a part of the env really20:57
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asalkeldbut we need the client to read the template20:58
asalkeldand slurp the File's20:58
shardyI think this is a deployer problem, not a heat problem20:58
shardyprovide a template repo with http access, sorted..?20:58
randallburtthere are a couple of bps for that20:59
zanebshardy: that's a weak answer20:59
shardyanyway probably can't discuss it in 2mins, so we can follow up on the ML20:59
randallburtsomewhat controversial, but they're out there20:59
asalkeldshardy, this would help with Metadata: {Fn::File: {Ref: Distro}}20:59
shardyzaneb: maybe, but we don't, IMHO want Heat to become a general-purpose template store20:59
bgorskiwe can continue on ML20:59
zanebshardy: totally agree, we should not be storing them20:59
shardythanks all20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "driver certification (Meeting topic: cinder)"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul 31 21:00:00 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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jd__#startmeeting ceilometer21:02
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openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 31 21:02:34 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'21:02
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jd__hello everybody21:03
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jd__#topic dhellmann to set up a vote in place for #openstack-metering logging21:04
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann to set up a vote in place for #openstack-metering logging (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:04
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jd__this has been done by dhellmann today21:04
dhellmannI set up an online vote and included all of the core team members as voters21:04
dhellmannlet me know if you didn't get the email with the link to your ballot21:04
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* jd__ got it21:04
* gordc got it21:05
jd__#topic dhellmann to setup a repository for pycadf21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann to setup a repository for pycadf (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:05
asalkeldI even voted yes21:05
jd__asalkeld: :-)21:05
gordcthanks jd__, dhellmann for setting this up21:05
dhellmannjd__ started that, and I added some stuff based on feedback from jeblair21:05
gordci don't think we'll have any issues on this21:05
mrutkowsjd__, dhellmann, +1 thanks both21:06
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jd__all good then :)21:06
dhellmannhe did ask to make sure we wanted it under "stackforge" and not "openstack" and I gave him some of the background21:06
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gordcwe're letting the lawyers know about stackforge but they said it shouldn't be a huge issue after we explained it to them21:07
jd__good lawyers21:07
mrutkowsdhellmann, have been working to expedite this with legal21:07
jd__#topic close on audit middleware/pycadf direction (where/when to use CADF) - gordc21:07
*** openstack changes topic to "close on audit middleware/pycadf direction (where/when to use CADF) - gordc (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:07
topolthey just asked for gordc's first born son. no biggie21:08
jd__I think this kind of the same topic21:08
jd__topol: business as usual.21:08
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gordcyep. kind of an expansion21:08
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gordcjust an update/checkpoint to audit middleware item (
gordcwe're branching out cadf data model to pycadf (thanks again dhellmann, jd__) but we still have to decide where/when to use CADF in ceilometer (or if we want a pluggable interface to work with other standards in future?)21:08
jd__yeah we've been discussing it a bit with dhellmann21:09
dhellmannI have pretty strong reservations against using multiple message, and therefore storage, formats21:09
gordcrealize it was just a few hours ago we discussed this but we had a good discussion and i wanted to answer any lingering questions/concerns we might have. ie. what goes into CADF and what stays in ceilometer21:09
gordcmrutkows is resident expert on CADF/audit and topol is around if you have questions on how we use audit with our banking clients21:09
sandywalshI still think middleware is the wrong place for generating this. It should be translating existing notifications ... not making new/competing ones.21:09
dhellmann(as would be implied by making it "pluggable")21:09
gordcso yeah, they're here if you want a more detailed picture of audit rather than the x percent i know.21:09
jd__I think for now having pycadf is a really good start anyway; where we plug the stuff is something we need to discuss21:09
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dhellmannI don't object to CADF, per se, but it feels like the CADF section of the notification is going to have redundant data in it (user and resource info)21:10
jd__so CADF is about a data model, but doesn't really care about the format IIUC? it just needs some precise fields?21:10
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dhellmannsure, when I say "format" I mean "schema" or "model" or whatever -- I realize it's not XML or JSON or whatever21:11
mrutkowsif audit data needs to be signed and complete according to any spec. or std. it needs to be in that format from the start21:11
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jd__dhellmann: yeah that's why I'm thinking having notification directly emitted in CADF might be a better idea21:11
sandywalshagreed ... cadf is fine, definitely a market need, but the implementation shouldn't get in the way of the existing "openstack way" of using notifications21:11
dhellmannright, sandywalsh, that's my point21:11
topolhow is it getting in the way?21:12
sandywalshit breaks DRY21:12
dhellmannmrutkows: if it's the same data, the "schema" for the data shouldn't matter to the signature, right? as long as the method of generating the signature is the same21:12
dhellmannso far, notifications are fairly lightweight21:12
sandywalshwe have two places where notifications/events are being created ... competing sources21:12
dhellmannthere's some wrapper info about the resource and event, and then a "metadata bag" for other stuff21:12
dhellmanncadf is some of that data repeated, but a cadf message would not conform to the notification spec, so we would have to repeat the fields21:13
dhellmanndoes someone have the link to that blueprint handy?21:13
gordcsandywalsh, was wondering what we're doing currently? it seems notifications are a dump/grab bag of possibly required data.21:13
mrutkowsdhellmann, if you start with another format at time of creation and sign it you cant reformat it and resign it later, it voids audit21:13
mrutkowseven if the schema is mappable21:13
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dhellmannmrutkows: why would it need to be resigned?21:14
sandywalshgordc, to an extent that's true. An event should gather as much context around the event as possible.21:14
dhellmannthat is, the signature should be about the data, not about the schema21:14
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sandywalshgordc, it's an atomic/standalone piece of data21:14
mrutkowsdhellmann, that is you cant translate it and sign it for an auditor expecting CADF (or any standard format)21:14
gordcsandywalsh, so cadf allows for that... it just stores it in a prescriptive way.21:15
mrutkowsdhellmann, maintaining the trust chain of the audit record gets voided21:15
dhellmannmrutkows: that doesn't make any sense to me, but I guess I don't understand how the signing part works21:15
sandywalshgordc, that's fine, but within nova, it shouldn't come from two sources. We have the .notify() method for generating events. Now there is the middleware. People won't know where stuff belongs.21:15
jd__I'm going to repeat myself, but what would be the problem with having a way to emit notifications directly in CADF?21:15
sandywalshit's like the InstanceFault table vs. ServerError table (or whatever it's called)21:16
dragondma new oslo notification driver?21:16
dhellmannjd__: we would, at best, be able to attach cadf data to the notification21:16
jd__dragondm: a new set of drivers for the format21:16
dhellmannwe need the other fields21:16
jd__dhellmann: what about having translation drivers?21:16
sandywalshjd__, if it's optional that's fine21:16
topolsandywalsh, how do we resolve the two source issue?21:16
sandywalshtopol, a new notification driver that writes in CADF format21:17
jd__sandywalsh: it would be a "format driver" that would translate the wire format21:17
jd__sandywalsh: so yeah totally optional21:17
dhellmannjd__: our one existing notification plugin has caused so much pain and hassle, I do not want to write another one unless it's added right to oslo21:17
gordcsandywalsh, the middleware is optional path.21:17
topol+1 on totally optional21:17
jd__dhellmann: yeah that would be another layer of driver in oslo21:17
dhellmannsandywalsh: it would only be optional if you didn't want to collect auditing data about the API21:17
gordcsandywalsh, it will also hopefully be reuseable across all projects21:17
sandywalshgordc, optional isn't the issue, it's duplicating the capture of an event in two places21:17
dhellmannbecause, from what mrutkows says, we have to keep the data in the same format as it moves around21:18
litongfolks, with the multiple dispatcher enablement, it does not have to be in the pipeline.21:18
dhellmannwhich makes me wonder how we store the data, but that's another thing21:18
litongit can be a totally independent dispatcher.21:18
sandywalsh1. in the middleware and 2. lower down where the activity is actually taking place21:18
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dhellmannsandywalsh: if we follow what mrutkows says, we have to create the CADF object in the middleware, and it has to stay the same as it moves all the way into ceilometer's database21:19
jd__gordc, dhellmann ultimately I can try to build a small illustrated proposal out of that if you want21:19
sandywalshjd__, a new notification that simply translated on-the-wire would be fine (and encouraged :)21:19
sandywalshs/notification/notification driver/21:19
jd__sandywalsh: nice to hear :)21:19
dhellmannmrutkows: is that allowed?21:19
mrutkowsdhellmann, correct, pretty standard for auditing certifications21:19
jd__dhellmann: that's in conformance with what sandywalsh did with the event recording stuff21:19
* dhellmann is very confused21:20
gordcsandywalsh, hmm, i hadn't really traced what activity nova sends out currently but the current middlware just tracks raw api request and grabbing relevant user/project info21:20
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dhellmannmrutkows: which is "correct"? that it is ok to create the data in one format in the middleware and then turn it into cadf inside the notification pipeline somewhere, or that we must not do that?21:20
sandywalshsigning the event in the notification driver would be even better than doing it in the middleware.21:20
dhellmanngordc: if we're going to do this, let's try to do it in a way that works for everything21:21
gordcjd__, i think that'd be good. i think we have different visions right now that may or may not be closer than we think21:21
mrutkowsdhellmann, that "it has to stay in same format thru the system to the DB"21:21
dhellmanneven if we don't implement it for everything now21:21
dhellmannmrutkows: right, ok, so that means that a notification transformer will not meet the auditing requirements21:21
jd__dhellmann: middleware calls notify(data), oslo translates the data in a format (either our current native or CADF), sends it to a wire via its driver (e.g. RPC), ceilometer collector receives it and store it (and read it via a translation API to get data to build its Samples)21:21
dhellmannno, jd__ , that's what I'm saying: the auditors will not accept that data21:21
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jd__for which reason?21:22
mrutkowsdhellmann, yes, a transformer would void they original record21:22
dhellmannor rather, that's what mrutkows is saying21:22
gordcdhellmann,  agreed. should work for everything but we need to do it in steps... question is what we consider is step 1, 2, 3..21:22
dhellmannjd__: because the ORIGINAL version of the data is not in the CADF signed object21:22
sandywalshmrutkows, sounds fishy. The middleware has it in an intermediate format until it's turned into CADF. The payload would be the same intermediate format.21:22
jd__dhellmann: but it didn't leave the software yet! :(21:22
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dhellmannthis seems overly strict to me, too21:22
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sandywalshjd__, +121:22
dhellmannI'm just trying to make sure I understand "the rules"21:23
jd__mrutkows: is what dhellmann says right? :(21:23
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mrutkowssandywalsh, we are not signing today (not in scope of current blueprint), but is what we need to do21:23
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sandywalshmrutkows, even without the signing, the notification mechanism would meet your criteria ... the event hasn't left the system yet.21:24
mrutkowssandywalsh, any signing involves signing (using a hash of the record) against a canonical form21:24
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sandywalshif you translated after it hit rabbit ... yes, I would agree.21:24
sandywalshbut this would be before rabbit21:24
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dragondmbefore it left the originating process, even.21:25
jd__*everyone looks at mrutkows*21:25
dhellmannmrutkows: what is the "canonical form" that goes into the signing?21:25
mrutkowssandywalsh, not sure why you would create one format (TBD) and then translate to another, thenn sign it before putting on the notification bus?21:26
mrutkowssandywalsh, recall that CADF is being added as "metadata" in the current event message21:26
sandywalshmrutkows, because there's an existing code base that uses this mechanism and introducing a new source of events would be duplicating efforts21:27
mrutkowssandywalsh, and that we are making audit middleware pluggable to support more than one format21:27
dhellmannso this is different from what I understood21:27
sandywalshif there's a missing event, add a new notification. Not need to decide "does this go in middleware or at the origin"21:27
dhellmannmrutkows: are you saying then, that the entire notification would not be cadf?21:27
mrutkowssandywalsh, what is the other source?  audit middleware is optional21:27
mrutkowsdhellmann, we did not want to suggest cadf or any format to replace the one in ceilomter already so we assumed, for this blueprint that we would fit in by putting it in metadata21:28
sandywalshmrutkows, but the code is called all the time. There may just be no plug in defined for it. In fact, the plan is to move more into notifications and away from logging (for .info and .error)21:28
topolhow does the other source get modified to optionally generate cadf? is there an extension point?21:28
dhellmannmrutkows: interesting21:28
sandywalshand make the default notification driver the logging driver21:28
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dhellmannso the notification would include the data in some generic format, and then it would include the CADF payload as a duplicate, and that part of the payload would be signed separately from the rest of the notification?21:29
mrutkowsdhellmann, we wanted to be as non-invasive as possible in everything we did21:29
dhellmannok, this was not at all clear from the docs21:29
jd__sandywalsh: interesting, I'm on the same page on this21:30
dhellmannperhaps because the example shows how to map a sample to a cadf representation of the same data, I was confused21:30
sandywalshis this a nova notification or a CM notification ... from the code I thought the middleware was writing directly to the CM notification bus?21:30
gordcdhellmann, right. we just append cadf to payload.21:30
dhellmanngordc: ok, that makes things significantly different for me21:31
dhellmannand it makes the idea of having it be pluggable make more sense21:31
mrutkowsdhellmann, sorry for semantic issues21:31
dhellmannand it also makes the idea of a notification plugin make even more sense21:31
dragondmbasically it's a 'wrapper' notification driver, iiuc21:31
sandywalshwhen you say "payload" do you mean the nova notification payload? event['payload'] = { ... } ?21:31
dhellmannall notifications could basically have the auditing data added to them, not just the api call notifications21:31
jd__dhellmann: what about DRY?21:32
dhellmannsandywalsh: yes, I think a new "audit" key in the payload dictionary would hold this data21:32
dhellmannjd__: nothing would query into the audit field, so it would be treated as a black box21:32
gordcsandywalsh, we mean olso.notifier... .notify(context, payload)21:32
mrutkowsdellmann, cool by me21:32
sandywalshhow does api middleware have access to the notification?21:32
jd__dhellmann: that's still storing twice the same things though21:32
topoldhellmann +121:32
jd__dhellmann: but that's still inline with drivers in oslo21:32
jd__(in line in two words)21:33
mrutkowsjd___, there is some small overlap, but much is unique21:33
dragondmsandywalsh, if I understand, it's implemented as a notification driver.21:33
jd__mrutkows: ah ok -- I admit I lack information on what's in :)21:33
gordcjd__, sandywalsh, is the preference to have the notifications be emit from nova, glance, etc... api code?21:33
jd__gordc: would be, what's why I think it should target oslo notifier21:34
dhellmanngordc: what we want is to have a notification plugin that adds cadf data to all notifications as they go out21:34
sandywalshgordc, I'm recalling the code review on this and I thought it was wsgi middleware21:34
jd__gordc: so everything that's already calling notify() would benefit from it21:34
dhellmannand then that plugin could be turned on or off, depending on whether the deployer wants it21:34
dhellmannand all of the applications don't have to know about cadf or auditing21:34
sandywalshgordc, is this something new proposed, or perhaps I'm thinking of a different branch?21:34
gordcsandywalsh, correct.21:34
dhellmanngordc: and the best part of it is you could build that thing entirely in the pycadf library and other projects could consume it21:35
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dhellmannceilometer wouldn't have to know about cadf at all -- the auditing data would just be an extra field in the metadata of every sample21:35
mrutkowsjd__, we are only attempting to audit APIs by allowing the middlewar filter to be enabled  by components, not sure if every notification needs to be audited (not enough knowledge)21:35
sandywalshgordc, if it's wsgi middleware, how does it get access to the .notify() calls (in other processes)?21:35
dhellmannand your middleware could simply emit standard notifications21:35
dhellmannand that could live in oslo or somewhere else to make it easy to share it21:36
jd__mrutkows: I'm likely to say yes, we want audit everywhere21:36
dhellmannyeah, there is really no point in building auditing only for the API calls21:36
jd__and I think we'll have to switch to other topics now guys :)21:36
gordcsandywalsh, the middleware is coded up as part of ceilometer egg. it has access to it then.21:36
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sandywalshhmm, I'm confused21:36
dhellmannyes, let's discuss this on the mailing list21:36
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gordcdhellmann, jd__, yes. there is a lot of information being passed around right now21:37
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mrutkowsdhellmann, it could, but I do not have the design of what other things follow that path to say those are all audit candidates, APIs was our only target for the near term21:37
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topol  so just need to understand what is the minimum piece that goes in ceilometer to make this work.21:37
dhellmannmrutkows: the notification system is the common way the openstack components record the fact that some event has happened21:38
gordcso we would have the event listener in audit.api events in collector still?21:38
jd__not sure there's any at this point :)21:38
topolevent audit listener is the only part, correct21:38
gordclisten for audit api*21:38
mrutkowsdhellmann, since APIs represent "authenticated" requests from users and are essential to track for security audits21:38
jd__#topic Last call for backports for 2013.1.321:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Last call for backports for 2013.1.3 (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:38
jd__eglynn: around?21:39
sandywalshsorry, for the sake of others on previous topic:21:39
eglynnyeah, so last-call-for-alcohol on the upcoming 2013.1.3 release21:39
eglynn(freeze is tmrw!)21:39
eglynnhere are the backports we got landed today ...21:39
eglynnif anyone reckons I missed something important, please shout in the next hour or so ...21:40
eglynnotherwise let's go with that21:40
eglynnrelease due to be cut on Aug 8th21:40
eglynnI'll ask apevec to do the honours again21:40
dhellmanneglynn: are there outstanding reviews you need help with?21:40
eglynndhellmann: nope, thanks, everything I proposed is now landed21:41
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jd__#topic Review Havana-3 milestone21:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Havana-3 milestone (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:41
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jd__so everything should be started RSN now21:41
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jd__really soon now21:42
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eglynna-ha :)21:42
jd__if you want to get merged on time21:42
jd__'cause there's a lot of stuff, a lot of potential conflict, rebase, war!21:42
jd__and I need to stress that eglynn has a lot on his plate21:43
eglynnI've got some stuff near ready to propose21:43
jd__so eglynn if you want to share, don't hesitate21:43
eglynnbut not really prone to conflict & rebase21:43
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eglynn(as mostly new)21:43
gordcsorry folks, need to leave. thanks for (very) detailed discussion. will check logs later. jd__, dhellmann, sandywalsh, will checkpoint again later to see how to properly impl.21:43
jd__cya gordc21:44
dhellmannthanks, gordc21:44
jd__#topic Release python-ceilometerclient?21:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:44
gordcthanks for looking at it :), cheers,21:44
jd__should be good on that I guess21:44
eglynnno need I think21:44
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sandywalshgordc, thanks ... later!21:44
eglynn(given that we release last week)21:44
dhellmanndid we fix that client version pinning issue?21:44
jd__dhellmann: yes21:44
jd__#topic Hong Kong Summit: Who's going? (nealph)21:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Hong Kong Summit: Who's going? (nealph) (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:44
eglynnasalkeld's proxy: o/21:45
mrutkows(at least I am on the list for now)21:45
jd__sileht should be there too21:45
jd__see, told ya21:45
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sandywalsh(on my own dime)21:45
dhellmannhas anyone started thinking about topics?21:45
eglynnsandywalsh: ouch!21:45
nealphyes, we have a couple in the works...21:46
jd__sandywalsh: rax doesn't send you/anyone?21:46
sandywalshyeah, haven't missed a summit yet, can't start now.21:46
sandywalshit's not decided who's going yet21:46
nealphsandywalsh: that's the second part of this discussion topic.21:46
eglynnsandywalsh: hit the foundation travel programme ;)21:46
terriyuI'm applying to the travel fund, so if I get it, I'll be going21:46
dhellmannindeed, that's what it's there fore21:46
nealphDistance may be an issue for some...21:46
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jd__nealph: I don't see any difference as far as I'm concern :)21:47
sandywalsheglynn, good idea!21:47
nealphHa, true.21:47
terriyueglynn: : are you talking about the travel fund?21:48
eglynnterriyu: yep21:48
terriyuthe application is due today.  I'm working on it right now :)21:48
nealphtravel fund?21:48
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eglynnterriyu: are you covered anyway as an intern?21:48
terriyueglynn: my internship program only covers $500, probably not enough for Hong Kong ;)21:49
eglynnIIRC all the women-in-openstack interns were in Portland last time round21:49
eglynnterriyu: ah, I see :(21:49
nealphIs it premature to discuss alternate meet-ups for those that can't swing the cost?21:49
jd__are you working for CloudStack?21:50
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nealphperhaps not concurrent...21:50
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dhellmanndo we know what the remote participation system will be this time?21:50
jd__dhellmann: I didn't hear anything about that21:50
nealphdhellmann: well, that would ultimately be best.21:51
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jd__I *think* the travel program is meant to help required people to join rather than trying remote system21:51
jd__since it seems remote systems aren't really easy to deal with21:52
asalkeldwell you could skype/g+21:52
asalkeldthat's not so hard21:52
asalkeldif the network is functional21:53
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nealphdid you guys attempt that for the ceilometer track discussions21:53
dhellmannbig if21:53
nealphin Portland?21:53
dhellmannnot in portland, but in san diego I think we had webex or something in some of the rooms21:53
dhellmannonly for core projects21:53
dhellmannor maybe that was san francisco21:54
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nealphI'm just nosing around for ways for non-attendees to get plugged in...21:55
jd__nealph: it may be too soon anyway21:55
jd__retry that in a couple of months :)21:55
sandywalshdhellmann, re: topics: I submitted one for our StackTach improvements (a lot) and how we're going to bring that to CM21:55
nealphagreed. I'll circle back.21:55
dhellmannsandywalsh: cool, looking forward to hearing about that21:55
jd__#topic Open discussion21:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:56
jd__a couple of minute left if you've anything21:56
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jd__I'll talk about my bp next week -- too tired for that today21:56
jd__and so little time anyway :)21:56
dhellmannI'll be out again next week. Please don't assign me any tasks. ;-)21:57
jd__like we ever did that21:57
* dhellmann remembers something about a vote...21:57
* nealph second time I've seen that rabbit today...popular bunny.21:58
mrutkowswill show my daughter that one21:58
*** openstack changes topic to "driver certification (Meeting topic: cinder)"21:59
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul 31 21:59:11 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:59
openstackMinutes (text):
jd__see you soon guys, happy hacking! :)21:59
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fifieldtreed, hiya22:50
reedhello fifieldt, welcome22:50
fifieldtthanks reed, it's good to be here22:50
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reedannegentle, did you have a topic for today's community meeting?22:59
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* reed trying to remember23:00
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reedfifieldt, ready for the meeting?23:03
reed#startmeeting openstack-community23:03
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 31 23:03:56 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is reed. Information about MeetBot at
fifieldtunfortunately I have yet to automate all the things of my workload, and so much going on :)23:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.23:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-community)"23:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_community'23:04
reed#topic action items from last meeting23:04
*** openstack changes topic to "action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: openstack-community)"23:04
reed#info there was none :)23:04
reed#topic pending issues
*** openstack changes topic to "pending issues (Meeting topic: openstack-community)"23:05
reedso, the Bitergia folks are working on a new version of the dashboard23:06
reedit's deployed, based on bootstrap23:06
reedit allows more flexibility to move things around23:06
reedthey have removed the link to the "top things" from the navigation bar23:06
reedso we don't have one page that looks like a race23:07
reedthere are more improvements to be made but I believe they require a much longer conversation with them23:07
fifieldtright, ok23:07
reedBitergia submitted a talk to Hong Kong, they have ideas to discuss23:07
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reedzagile is also working on the fixes assigned to them, they'll submit a talk too23:08
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reedon Ask also I've had a meeting with Evgeny, closed some bugs and updated others today23:09
fifieldtI noticed that23:09
fifieldtgood progress23:09
reedany specific question on the pending issues?23:09
reedI have one:23:10
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reedwe'll have Evgeny, Zagile and Bitergia and Tipit work on projects in an 'agile' fashion23:10
reedwith stories and points attached to issues to solve and features23:11
reedto build a workplan and generate a SOW23:11
reedI'd like that whole plan/process to be visible23:11
reedwhat tools do we have for that?23:11
reedmaybe this is a question for the #infra team23:11
fifieldtright now, just blueprints and bugs are all we've got23:12
fifieldtand the wiki :)23:12
fifieldtand etherpad23:12
fifieldtwe can target blueprints to milestones23:12
reedoh, sure... blueprints may be enough23:12
russellbdon't think we have anything better than launchpad for project tracking right now23:12
fifieldtand bugs to blueoruints23:12
reedand milestones...23:12
fifieldtkeep in mind the access control issues23:12
fifieldtyou'll probably need to make them admins of the community project23:13
fifieldtas only certain roles are able to target blueprints and assign milestyones23:13
fifieldtnot sure of the exact permissions required23:13
reedok, makes sense23:13
fifieldtbut it's not very fine-grained23:13
reed#action reed to investigate using blueprints and milestones to manage development projects23:13
reedsomething else?23:14
fifieldtI'm ok so far - got a good response from evgeny on my query about 'sorting by view'23:14
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fifieldtbut I guess it will take time to implement23:14
* reed subscribing to that bug23:15
* fifieldt gets all spam :D23:15
reedmakes sense23:16
reedit's one of the projects I'd like to have Evgeny work on: reporting tools23:16
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reednext topic?23:17
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reed#topic  progress report of projects: Ask in Chinese, User Group Portal23:17
*** openstack changes topic to "progress report of projects: Ask in Chinese, User Group Portal (Meeting topic: openstack-community)"23:17
reedok, so Ask in Chinese is quite ready to go live23:17
reedthe site itself works23:18
reedthe search itself works23:18
reedthe UI is only 60% or so translated23:18
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fifieldtwant to push the button?23:18
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reedI'd say "ship it"23:19
fifieldtwhat's the latency like from translations getting into askbot transifex to being deployed on ?23:19
fifieldtship it :)23:19
reedwe'll need a few minutes downtime23:19
reedI'm asking Evgeny about that, not sure23:20
reedI'd assume around a week23:20
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reedI assume also that he can automate that in the future23:21
fifieldtthat's probably a good idea23:21
fifieldtmore rewarding if you see your translation on the site sooner23:21
reedyeah, once a week is a plausible timeframe says Evgeny23:22
reedabout the user/community group portal: contract is signed23:23
reedkickoff meeting is tomorrow at 23:00 CEDT with Marton, Todd and me23:24
reedare you able to join it?23:24
reed(if you want to)23:24
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fifieldtlooking at timezone now23:24
reedit's about 2 hours before this23:24
fifieldttomorrow = Thursday?23:25
fifieldtyeah, 7am23:25
fifieldtI should be able to do that23:25
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fifieldtthanks to jet lag :D23:25
fifieldtskype, irc, ...23:25
fifieldtI'll wake up and you can patch me in :)(23:26
reedthis completes my overview23:26
reed#topic various23:27
*** openstack changes topic to "various (Meeting topic: openstack-community)"23:27
reedthere was something that annegentle mentioned to me but I don't remember it now23:28
fifieldtIt might be in my email, but I've not caught up yet :s23:28
reedmeanwhile: the migration to the mailing list is complete23:28
reedno, it was on IRC23:28
* fifieldt pops champagne23:28
fifieldtoh - wiki page obsolescence23:28
fifieldtWe now have an "obsolete" namespace23:28
fifieldtthat any user can use to move dead pages to23:29
fifieldtneed to figure out the best way to use that and communicate it23:29
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reedother thing: we have a new policy for the blog23:29
reed#action reed to write down the new policy for the blog and communicate it23:30
fifieldt#action reed to comment on fifieldt's email titled "Dealing with Out of Date wiki pages" ;)23:31
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reed#info we're going to restrict access to the openstack blog to openstack foundation staff and promote the use of planet for everything else since planet is featured on the homepage anyway23:31
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fifieldtreed, was annegentle's topic "integrating doc comments with ask"?23:31
reedmaybe... that's a good topic23:32
reedi forgot to ask Evgeny about that23:32
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reed#action reed to investigate further how to use askbot widgets, find examples of other sites using them, etc23:34
reedsomething else?23:35
fifieldtnot that comes to mind right now23:35
fifieldtthere;s the trystack survey23:35
fifieldtbut I think this needs to go on for another couple of weeks23:36
fifieldtonly 20 responses so far23:36
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reedI'm wondering if we should try to promote it in other ways  too23:37
fifieldthow would you think, reed?23:37
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reednot sure...23:37
fifieldtany way I can think of doesn't hit those facebook users :s23:37
reedyeah ...23:37
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reedso, lets wait a bit more23:39
fifieldtI am also going to try and arrange a meeting with trystack admins23:39
fifieldtso we can find out who is involved23:39
fifieldtand how it's being run :)23:39
reedoh, maybe we can send an email to the general list saying 'go to facebook and respond to the survey'23:39
reedwithout revealing the liknk to the survey itself23:40
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* fifieldt has a feeling this will just generate new users ...23:40
fifieldtwhich isn't necessarily something we want to do right now ... given the recent downtime, I guess :s23:40
reedfifieldt, better risk that than have the survey sit there capturing .3% of members23:41
fifieldtI disagree :)23:41
reedI don't approve new members anyway23:41
fifieldtI really worry about the negative experience of people - especially if they are using OpenStack for the first time23:42
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reedI hear you... so a message that simply says:23:42
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reedwe're collecting feedback from current trystack users. Go to the facebook group <link> and fill in the survey please to help us decide the future direction of the project.23:43
fifieldtyeah, I feel uncomfortable with that23:44
fifieldtsince it's still promoting trystack23:44
reedif people are not members, we don't let them join23:44
fifieldtother idea:23:44
fifieldtadd the link to the trystack dashboard23:44
fifieldtthe survey has actually already had a result -23:44
reedmakes sense23:44
fifieldtwe know that people are not engaged with the trystack community group23:44
reedwhere is my 'not surprised' face?23:45
fifieldt :)23:45
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fifieldtI think stopping accepting new users is not our decision to make right now - we're not running trystack23:45
reedanyway, I'm not sure that sending an email to 8k people on the general list linking to a facebook group would result in 'promotion' of trystack23:46
reedi think the risk is low compared to the advantage of getting more feedback23:46
fifieldtI disagree :)23:46
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reedwe're admins though :)23:46
fifieldtI think that if ten more people have a bad OpenStack experience due to trystack, that's too many23:46
reedand we can discuss this with the others23:46
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fifieldtwhich is why I want to have a meeting with the admins as soon as we can23:47
reedif you're that concerned we should just close it then23:47
reedI get 2/3 new requests to join every day23:47
fifieldtI am that concerned23:47
reedor suggest that we close it :)23:48
reedok, lets postpone this discussion until you talk to the admins23:48
reedother things to discuss?23:49
fifieldthmm, not yet :D23:49
reed#info the migration of General mailing list is almost done. Need to migrate archives. The mail server is a bit slow, delays to delivery are to be expected. The infra team is working on fine tuning exim.23:50
reed#info trystack survey still going on on Facebook group. Will wait more time to capture more responses.23:51
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reed#action fifieldt to have a meeting with trystack admins23:51
reedi think we're done for this week23:51
*** openstack changes topic to "driver certification (Meeting topic: cinder)"23:51
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul 31 23:51:52 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)23:51
openstackMinutes (text):
fifieldtcheers reed23:52
reedwhy cinder in the topic?23:52
fifieldthmm, maybe from a previous meeting that wasn't closed properly23:52
reedjeblair, why cinder in the topic?23:52
jeblairreed: bot snafu earlier; needed to wait until meetings were over to fix; thanks for the reminder.  :)23:53
*** jeblair changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"23:54
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