Monday, 2013-08-19

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NobodyCam#startmeeting ironic19:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 19 19:00:14 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is NobodyCam. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ironic'19:00
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NobodyCamwho's here for the iRonic meeting19:00
NobodyCamwelcome all19:01
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NobodyCamok first up. I've tried to keep the agenda a little more up to date.19:01
NobodyCamAgenda can be found at:
NobodyCamfirst up:19:02
NobodyCam#topic testing env19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "testing env (Meeting topic: ironic)"19:02
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NobodyCam# link
NobodyCamfor devstack19:03
NobodyCamlooks like its getting a bit closer19:03
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NobodyCamis Roman around?19:03
lucasagomeshe's on vacations no?19:04
NobodyCamoh thats right19:04
NobodyCamthat brings us to the Dib element19:04
NobodyCamI've got a couple of -1 (which I expected) that I have yet to address in the reviews19:05
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NobodyCamI have addressed most of the issues in my (/nobodycam/) repo but have not pushed up the changed for review19:06
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NobodyCamI will get to that this week19:06
NobodyCamany questions or comments?19:06
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lucasagomesthe link for the repo u've the changes19:06
lucasagomesis this one?
NobodyCamyep thats the one19:07
NobodyCamI will add that link to my notes on the agenda19:07
NobodyCam#topic in-progress tasks19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "in-progress tasks (Meeting topic: ironic)"19:08
NobodyCamso moving on19:08
NobodyCamun less there are more questions19:08
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NobodyCamKeystone authentication.19:08
NobodyCam*admin-only done. v3 domains not working yet19:08
NobodyCamany updates here?19:09
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devanandaromcheg was working on that, iirc19:09
NobodyCamya so I think we're on hold till he get back :)19:10
NobodyCamnext up a biggie: PXE driver19:10
NobodyCamimage services patch LANDED! 3527219:10
* GheRivero yes yes yes!19:10
GheRiveronot where we like it, but it's there19:10
NobodyCamGhe awesome job getting that thru19:11
NobodyCamseveral false starts19:11
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NobodyCambut great patch19:11
NobodyCam# link
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NobodyCamI've got a -1 on the last version but really for minor doc string stuff19:12
NobodyCamany questions / comments for Ghe?19:13
devanandai'll review that right after the meeting19:13
lucasagomesI've to review that patch, will try to find a time to do it tomorrow19:13
NobodyCam:) Thnk you !!!19:13
GheRiverocool, waiting for it19:14
devanandalanding and testing the PXE driver patch is going to be a really big step closer to ironic being usable19:14
NobodyCamdevananda: ++++19:14
NobodyCamo next up: IPMI name conflict with python-ipmi19:14
devanandaname conflict is almost resolved. the -infra team has been renaming a few repos over the last week19:15
NobodyCamjbjohnso and mordred have been working on this onw19:15
NobodyCamok with out questions we'll move on.19:16
NobodyCamrecursive-driver-import problem! (FIXED)19:16
NobodyCamAwesome fix devananda19:17
NobodyCamany questions / comments for devananda (while he's still here, if only in body)19:18
NobodyCamok then moving on.19:18
NobodyCam#topic API19:18
*** openstack changes topic to "API (Meeting topic: ironic)"19:18
NobodyCamnested objects19:19
NobodyCamsub resources19:19
NobodyCamdo we have any q/c on these19:19
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lucasagomesit was about having a subresource of the subresource? something like nodes/state/power ?19:19
NobodyCam(do we need to keep them on hte agenda?)19:19
lucasagomesif so I found a way to do it with wsme/pecan19:20
devanandanested objects - i think that's done19:20
devanandaeg, chassis/123/nodes19:20
lucasagomesit's on the 4084419:20
lucasagomesok yea it's done :)19:20
NobodyCamok I'll revove for next meeting19:20
NobodyCamour epic: PUT vs PATCH in the API19:21
lucasagomesyea epic saga19:21
lucasagomestl;dr PUT is really confusing19:21
lucasagomesit says you have to update the whole document but I couldn't figure out if that includes the server-generated stuff like the links19:21
devanandalooks like another rev of 40844 is up, i need to review that today too :)19:21
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lucasagomesSo I entered the grey zone of the unclear usage of PUT, idk if it is or not allowed by the HTTP specification to do this full-but-yet-partial-update using PUT.19:22
lucasagomesFor what I read some ppl say yes and some ppl say no19:22
mordredNobodyCam: what did I do?19:22
lucasagomesand as what we want to have is partial updates I'm suggesting us to use use PATCH instead, which is not a lot of extra work since there's available libs to work with json-patch and it that was created to solve the problem  of the partial update.19:22
NobodyCamlol mordred help with the python-ipmi rename!19:22
NobodyCamTY mordred19:22
mordredyay! that's done19:23
lucasagomesso there's a patch in the gerrit now, implementing patch for the chassis and nodes resources19:23
lucasagomesany thoughts?19:23
NobodyCammordred: was getting ppl to +1 your patch on same19:23
NobodyCamlucasagomes: was that the link I just posted?19:24
lucasagomesyea 4269019:24
lucasagomesthat's the one19:24
devananda++ to PATCH19:24
NobodyCamI was just about to say we really NEED both19:25
NobodyCamput and patch19:25
lucasagomeswe will do PUT to update states for example... only when it makes sense to update the whole document19:25
devanandaat the moment, my addled brain thinks we need both, but for different things19:25
devanandaso we'll need to clearly lay out (in the API doc) which things should be updatd wqith PATCH and which with PUT19:26
devanandaand i feel like there is actually a good reason for the difference19:26
lucasagomesjust a note19:27
lucasagomesglance uses patch to update the images19:27
NobodyCamdevananda: would you be able to add any thought you have to the ethier pad before you go?19:27
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NobodyCamfor those who don't have that link19:28
devanandalucasagomes: exactly! POST = create an image. PATCH = update the image. PUT = create a tag on the image.19:28
devanandaso for us, POST might create a chassis, node, or port. PATCH would update the properties or driver properties of that thing. PUT would set specific things (states, for example)19:29
lucasagomes:) +119:29
NobodyCamdevananda: does lucasagomes example of do PUT to update states fit that model19:29
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devanandai need to re-review after his last change19:30
devanandaiirc, it modelled PUT well, but there was some feedback on the state's internal representations that looks like it has been incorporated19:30
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lucasagomesyea, there's many things yet to be done about the states19:31
lucasagomesthat review is more to expose it on the API19:31
devanandai dont want us to nitpick the states too much in this patch19:31
NobodyCamdevananda: :)19:31
lucasagomesthe internals, how it will actually works, conditions etc still need to be coded19:31
devanandabecause they /will/ evolve as we find edge cases, things we didn't think about, etc19:31
lucasagomesyea, many corner cases, states will be something like19:32
lucasagomescode first, document later19:32
NobodyCamnot to much later I hope19:32
lucasagomes:D yea no, but we need to actually code and test in order to find all the conditionals, flaws etc19:33
NobodyCamwith out a working product doc are mainly what I reffer (myself and oters) to19:33
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lucasagomesthe doc can come in the same review as the commit if that's the case :)19:34
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lucasagomeswhat I mean is... it's hard to have the states in the specification before coding19:34
devanandathat's an interesting question, actually19:34
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NobodyCamlol .. U completely understand19:35
devanandashould the reviewers reject patches that change behavior (eg, API) if a doc change isn't included?19:35
devananda(and with that, watch me derail the meeting :) )19:35
lucasagomesI usually do 2 commits, one for the doc and then one for the doc that depends on the code19:35
lucasagomesI did it for the filtering19:35
NobodyCamI actually planed for the put vs patch to be our longest section19:35
lucasagomesbut I don't mind in squashing it into 1 commit if that's the case19:36
lucasagomesand then one for the code*19:36
* lucasagomes tired19:36
devanandafor inline docs, please do that in the same patch19:36
NobodyCamdevananda: ++19:37
lucasagomesoh yea +1 on that19:37
devanandafor the sphinx docs, i can go either way, BUT, it's harder to enforce19:37
devanandaif it comes in a second patch19:37
devanandaand harder to review to ensure the doc change matches the code change19:37
NobodyCamand takes more time to review19:37
devanandasince we currently have developer docs in the same repo, i really don't see a good reason to do two patches19:38
devanandaat some point, we'll have to create deployer docs -- in the official openstack-docs repo(s). so that will have to be sseparate patch sets19:38
lucasagomesI have no problem in doing in the same commit... I never got me thinking about it and the reasons posted here19:38
lucasagomessounds fair enough19:38
devanandagreat, thanks!19:39
lucasagomesso I think we can start -1 patches that changes things like the API and has no documentation19:39
NobodyCamdevananda: want a #(action) for that :-p19:39
devanandaNobodyCam: nah. that's more of an informal vote19:39
devanandathere is actually a formal vote mechanism, but i dont think we need to kick one off ...19:40
lucasagomesok so we decided here19:40
lucasagomesto go with PATCH and PUT19:40
NobodyCam:) any thing else on this topic19:40
lucasagomesand -1 reviews that changes things like API without docs19:40
lucasagomescool :)19:41
devananda#agreed reviewers to start -1'ing patches that do not include doc updates19:41
NobodyCamok then moving on #topic FFT / open discussion19:41
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* NobodyCam notes fft = Food For Thought19:41
NobodyCamjust sometihng to keep in mind19:42
lucasagomeswhere the vendor_passthru should actually live?19:42
devananda#agreed use PUT and PATCH for the appropriate things. PUT = state changes, tags, etc. PATCH = change item(s) in a larger document (eg, driver properties)19:42
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lucasagomes /drivers/ or /nodes/19:42
lucasagomesI dind't think much about it yet19:42
lucasagomesanyone has something to say about it? is Yuri here?19:42
devanandaoh, just realized - NobodyCam - you didn't chair me, so my #agreed things propbably didnt count :)19:43
NobodyCam#chair devananda19:43
openstackCurrent chairs: NobodyCam devananda19:43
devananda#agreed reviewers to start -1'ing patches that do not include doc updates19:43
devananda#agreed use PUT and PATCH for the appropriate things. PUT = state changes, tags, etc. PATCH = change item(s) in a larger document (eg, driver properties)19:43
devanandaty :)19:43
NobodyCam:-p doh19:43
devananda#topic open discussion19:44
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ironic)"19:44
devanandalucasagomes: the first level of the path is specifying the type of thing being affected, ya?19:44
devanandalucasagomes: so i think that, when the pxe deploy ramdisk is sending data back, it should be sent to /nodes/123/vendor_passthru19:45
devanandasince it is first and foremost dealing with the deploy of a specific node19:45
lucasagomesso I'm inclined to do it in the /nodes ... since it's says the "node" is deployed and things like that19:45
lucasagomesyea... like that :)19:45
devanandawhere i think we may eventually want /drivers/foo/vendor_passthru is for things like19:46
devanandaPUT {'action': 'discover', 'range': ''} /drivers/ipmi/vendor_passthru19:46
NobodyCamdevananda: ++19:47
lucasagomesalso the format... I think you suggested 2 things before19:48
lucasagomesPOST {'method': 'noop', 'data': ... } /nodes/1/vendor_passthru19:48
lucasagomesPOST {'data': ... } /nodes/1/vendor_passthru/noop19:48
NobodyCamlucasagomes: I like #219:49
lucasagomeswhere in the second case the /noop actually does not exists in the api code19:49
devanandai dont have enough familiarity with other APIs to have an opinion on the interface19:49
lucasagomeswell I'd say #1 is easier19:49
lucasagomesidk how to expose something that doesnt exist in the api19:49
devanandai think we can implement #2 using Pecan's default handler19:49
lucasagomesI can try to make a prototype19:49
NobodyCambut you have read the data blob to see whats being requested #119:50
NobodyCams#1/with #1/19:50
devanandawhat i like about #2 is that the driver's method is required by the URI, not by the message body19:50
lucasagomesyea it's looks more clear indeed19:50
NobodyCammuch better said then my words19:51
NobodyCam10 minutes left19:51
lucasagomesok so... we are inclined to use the #2 model19:51
lucasagomesI will reasearch it, see if I can find some examples19:51
NobodyCam+1 from /me19:51
lucasagomesand do a prototype19:51
NobodyCamawesome TY lucasagomes :)19:51
devanandaalso, it lends itself much better to the approach of "we dont introspect the body for vendor_passhthru"19:51
NobodyCamlinggao: you still here19:52
devanandathe goal really being that ironic just blindly passes what ever data it gets to the driver19:52
linggaoyes, I am here19:52
devanandalucasagomes: so the routing (ie, the driver.method) being in the URI, not the body, is really best, IMO, if we can do that19:52
NobodyCam:) linggao do you have anyquestions we can help with?19:52
lucasagomeswill try that when I get a time to a prototype19:52
lucasagomesI'm still working on some internal things and upstream half-time each19:53
lucasagomesbut I will try to do it this week19:53
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NobodyCamlinggao: was looking at doing power on / off19:54
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linggaoNobodyCam, I will ask after meeting. It's more like how to setup the client-server connection for ironic conductor19:54
NobodyCamwas just seeing if you got an answer to your questions in channel19:54
lucasagomesNobodyCam, power on power off? virtualdriver (sshdriver)?19:54
linggaoI got some idears from danvananda and you and lucas, trying them now.19:55
lucasagomes:) ok19:55
NobodyCamlucasagomes: more the frame work for start_power_state_change19:55
linggaolucasagomes: I am trying to see if I can help on the function in conductor manager.19:56
devanandaone quick announcement, just in case anyone hasn't heard19:56
* NobodyCam still unsure about start_ prefix19:56
lucasagomeslinggao, ahh sweet!19:56
devanandaI'll be GONE for the next 2 weeks. No email, no phone, etc... so. NobodyCam will be running the show :)19:57
linggaolucasagomes: have to make sure to get connected from your client side.19:57
lucasagomesNobodyCam, hehe I couldn't think about anything better as well, I just renamed form start_state_change to start_power_state_change since we now have power and provision states19:57
NobodyCamI'm in the same boat I think19:57
NobodyCamlol :)19:57
devanandalucasagomes: ++. provisioning will be a challenge to do driver-independently19:58
lucasagomesdevananda, a note to ur note... enjoy the burning man :)19:58
lucasagomessaw some videos, looks awesome19:58
devanandalucasagomes: thanks!19:58
NobodyCamAwesome meeting everyone!19:58
NobodyCamdevananda: Enjoy the brun... We will be thinking abut you19:59
devanandathanks, everyone! ya'll are doing awesome things ~~ I look forward to seeing all the great changes when I get back :)19:59
linggaodevananda: enjoy the vacation.19:59
NobodyCamany last words?19:59
NobodyCamand with that:19:59
lucasagomeshmmm not from me hehe I'm just thinking about going to watch some series and relax now20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 19 20:00:01 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes (text):
NobodyCamthank you everyone!!!!20:00
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lifeless#topic agenda20:03
lifeless#startmeeting tripleo20:03
openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 19 20:03:56 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lifeless. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:03
lifeless#topic agenda20:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tripleo)"20:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tripleo'20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: tripleo)"20:04
lifeless     bugs20:04
lifeless    Grizzly test rack status20:04
lifeless    CI virtualized testing progress20:04
lifeless    open discussion20:04
lifeless#topic bugs20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: tripleo)"20:04
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SpamapSlifeless: I'm begging debugging bug 1182249 and bug 1183223 today20:05
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1182249 in tripleo "quantum configuration is overly hardcoded" [Critical,In progress]
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1183223 in tripleo "nova-compute.yaml missing parameters" [Critical,In progress]
lifelessjog0: any news on bug 1184484 ?20:05
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1184484 in neutron "Quantum default settings will cause deadlocks due to overflow of sqlalchemy_pool" [High,Fix committed]
lifelessI'm fairly sure no-one is on the POC changes yet; but I think we're right on the cusp of that being a tackleable thing20:06
lifelessbug 1213967 was filed overnight, I want to attract jog0's attention and confirm it's nova, then submit a revert for that patch20:06
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1213967 in tripleo "Seed VM filtering out compute resources" [Critical,Triaged]
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lifelesscause you know, being able to boot baremetal is a thing20:06
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lifelessI'll ping markmcclain about bug 1189385 later today20:07
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1189385 in tripleo "quantum-server hung up it's listening port" [Critical,Triaged]
lifelessAny other bug discussion?20:08
SpamapSlifeless: re POC bugs, I have one critical Heat bug I need to handle today/tomorrow, and then I think I can tackle them (the other two criticals I'm on are I think mostly "rewrite the bug and demote to High or Medium".20:08
lifelessSpamapS: cool20:08
lifeless#topic Grizzly Rack status20:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Grizzly Rack status (Meeting topic: tripleo)"20:08
lifelessstill ticking along. And see ^^20:09
lifelessanything else on the racks?20:09
lifelesserm, rack?20:09
lifeless#topic CI virtualised test progress20:10
*** openstack changes topic to "CI virtualised test progress (Meeting topic: tripleo)"20:10
pleia2so last week I had some slowness issues with lxc, but they've disappeared this week, can't replicate20:10
pleia2right now I'm working on what we'll need to modify in boot-seed-vm to support lxc20:11
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pleia2libvirtd support for lxc exists and I got it working, just need to work through making a .xml file that does everything we want in lxc (will be similar to kvm, but needs some modifications)20:11
pleia2it doesn't support everything though, no shutdown, just destroy, but that shouldn't be a big deal since it's just the seed vm20:12
lifelessdo you need any assistance ?20:12
pleia2not at the moment, do you use lxc with libvirtd at all?20:12
lifelessI have not, though I am aware of the existence of it20:13
lifelessothers may have though ;)20:13
pleia2ok, converting an lxc .conf file into an .xml file is an interesting task, I'll shout if I get stuck20:13
lifelessanything else, or next topic ?20:13
pleia2oh, and tracking notes here:
pleia2that's it :)20:14
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lifeless#topic open discussion20:14
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: tripleo)"20:14
lifelessI'd like to get more folk promoted to reviewer20:14
lifelesswe have ng/spamaps/devananda/my/arata20:14
lifelessI figure if we have 2 folk in each broad tz - us, asia, eu - we could go to two x +2 to land20:15
lifelesswithout adversely impacting velocity20:15
lifelessand that would also help with folk in those broad areas who currently often have to wait for reviews20:16
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SpamapSthat would require people to start +1'ing/-1'ing who are not already reviewers20:19
lifelessAm I still online?20:19
SpamapSI have not seen much of that20:19
* derekh is interested and will try to spend more time on reviews to help make it happen20:20
dkehnyes lifeless u are20:20
dkehnat least u were20:21
lifelessI am :)20:21
lifelessAre folk generally happy with reviews?20:21
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lifelessAre they prompt enough? Are they useful? Are we catching defects, not [just] making the codebase pretty?20:22
SpamapSmy only gripe is exactly what you brought up.. we need more reviewers20:22
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slaglei'm generally happy with the reviews.  agree that more reviewers would be nice.20:23
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dkehnin the neutron area, they are anythin but prompt, they can be helpful, but in the final stages they seem to be a bit more code my way items.20:24
slaglei can devote some time to doing reviews. you don't have to be a "core" reviewer to just +1/-1 right?20:24
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lifelessslagle: that is correct.20:24
lifelessslagle: anyone with a gerrit account can +1/-120:24
SpamapSWe need a unicode character that represents a bike shed.20:24
slaglek. i'll start looking at some stuff20:24
lifelessdkehn: :( I feel for you20:24
dkehnlifeless, I know, you are my sounding board20:25
lifelessdkehn: how is the neutron + neutronclient + nova patchset looking?20:25
lifelessdkehn: last week it looked like nova was ready to land?20:25
dkehnlifeless, went through the last round on the neutron and client waiting for someone to review it, not sure where that will go, markmcclain indicated that we are there, but ....., on the nova side, I've got to file a bug20:26
lifelessdkehn: cool!20:26
dkehnlifeless, gto hit with a nasty alembic process change that cost me some time20:27
lifelessSpamapS: you mentioned the other day that you'd like a bit more connectivity with folk; I was wondering - perhaps we should setup 2/3 hangouts a week - one NZ-US friendly, one US-EU friendly, and perhaps one EU-NZ friendly20:27
dkehnlifeless, will take to you offline about the russellb comments20:28
lifelessdkehn: ok20:28
lifelessSpamapS: something explicitly social and chatty vs formal progress like this meeting20:28
SpamapSlifeless: indeed, I feel that bandwidth is too low between participants and the summit is way too far apart to make up for the loss in cohesion.20:28
lifelessSpamapS: I can fedex you some superglue20:29
SpamapSno thanks, that always ends in something being glued to something it shouldn't be glued to.20:29
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lifelessSpamapS: lots of cohesion :)20:29
SpamapSlike a pencil glued to the bottom of a desk. :)20:29
lifelessso, who would attend such a hangout(s) ?20:30
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derekhtripleo hangout? I'd join in if tz allowed it20:32
SpamapSI wouldn't mind a larger scale but less frequent too..20:33
SpamapSlike once a month20:33
SpamapSSince we seem to have low interest in the meeting, I'll think about some ideas for how to get people more connected and present next week.20:33
lifelesswell we haven't got ng's attention right now, nor GheRivero, I suspect.20:34
lifelessand devananda will be heading off to burning man ~ now, so also likely not tuned in.20:34
lifelessI suspect a little socialisation via the dev list might get more interest20:34
lifelessI'd be happy to attend some hangouts20:35
SpamapSok will revisit the idea next week and/or on dev list20:35
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lifelesslast call for discussion...20:37
derekhIn toci land, I had a jenkins jobs triggering on various projects for a week or so a couple of weeks ago, but then it broke because toci fell behind various tripleo changes, would people be interested in getting this reporting on gerrit?20:37
dkehncue crickets20:37
SpamapSderekh: -yes-20:37
derekhUnfortunatly toci breaks often because its mostly me keeping it uptodate, but if it was visibly reporting that might help out that situation and help catch regresions.20:37
SpamapSI believe though, that pleia2's work is exactly focused on that20:37
lifelessderekh: hell yes20:38
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lifelessderekh: I'd really quite like toci to be gating on incubator/tie/tht set20:38
lifelessderekh: but20:38
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lifelessderekh: I'm not super happy about the redundancy we have between incubator and toci20:38
derekhok, I'll get it set up again and we can see how it goes20:39
lifelessderekh: [but tools for deployers aren't themselves CI, so making toci the source of truth feels wrong]20:39
derekhlifeless: ya, as much as possible I'm using the scipts in incubator20:39
derekhlifeless: but the devtest instructions themselves are another story20:39
lifelessderekh: yeah; I'm nearly finished on the arc of removing API calls from within the image20:40
lifelessderekh: at which point I think I'm going to go drink some bubbly :)20:41
pleia2my work is sort of a basic subset of toci, I'll certainly be referencing it once I get to the automation phase20:41
pleia2(right now just working to get it running manually)20:41
lifelessderekh: pleia2: Once BM is gate-tested, I'd surely like a zuul owned cloud hosted tripleo full test story.20:41
pleia2that would be very nice20:41
derekhlifeless: would be cool20:42
pleia2mordred is also working on some takeovernode stuff for d-g, I have a review to do20:42
derekhthe job I was doing was booting seed + undercloud20:43
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pleia2I'm just doing seed + bmnodes20:43
lifelesspleia2: I don't think takeovernode will help [much] in the cloud test story as we need isolated networks20:44
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derekhanyways I'll be out most of this week so probably wont get to it until next week.20:44
lifelesspleia2: unless/until there are two CI test clouds with full private SDN20:44
lifelessderekh: kk20:44
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pleia2lifeless: yeah, there is that :\20:44
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"20:48
openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 19 20:48:56 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:48
openstackMinutes (text):
lifelessthanks for playing!20:49
pleia2thanks lifeless!20:49
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armaxaloha to you20:59
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* mestery wonders if salv-orlando is on an island somewhere.21:00
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ivar-lazzaroHi all21:01
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* marun wishes I was on an island somewhere.21:01
salv-orlandomestery: Great Britain is indeed an island!21:01
mesterysalv-orlando: Ha!21:01
garyksalv-orlando: :)21:01
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armaxI thought the _tropical_ was implicit21:02
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armaxGB is far from tropical :P21:02
markmcclain#startmeeting networkings21:02
openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 19 21:02:37 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is markmcclain. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networkings)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networkings'21:02
armaxthat was quick21:03
markmcclain#startmeeting networking21:03
openstackmarkmcclain: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.21:03
dkehnthat was quick21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:03
openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 19 21:03:29 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:03
openstackMinutes (text):
markmcclainyeah wanted to set a new record :)21:03
markmcclain#startmeeting networking21:03
openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 19 21:03:48 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is markmcclain. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"21:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'21:03
garykcan i go back to sleep :)21:03
markmcclainthis one will probably run a little longer than 30s21:04
markmcclain#topic Announcements21:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"21:04
markmcclain#info The feature proposal freeze is end of day Friday August 23rd21:05
markmcclainWe're actually looking pretty good for this deadline.  We've got almost everything already proposal21:06
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markmcclainwhich means we'll spend the next 2 weeks reviewing/merging and closing out the critical bugs21:07
markmcclain#topic bugs21:07
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: networking)"21:07
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markmcclainWe've got 3 open critical bugs21:08
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1208661 in neutron "nova show command sometimes don't includes ip address" [Critical,In progress]21:08
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1210483 in neutron "ServerAddressesTestXML.test_list_server_addresses FAIL" [Critical,Confirmed]21:08
markmcclainare related to bugs discovered tempest testing21:08
nati_uenoAccoding to 1208661,21:08
nati_uenoSometimes, nova show didn't has ip address.21:08
nati_uenoI can't reproduce it yet, but I send devstack patch for adding more logging. It is merged now21:09
nati_uenoso We may get more hint21:09
nati_uenoMay be we can drop priority for high, because error late by this one is not so high21:09
markmcclainany other critical or high bugs we need to discuss?21:10
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marunthe gate blocking bug is fixed, waiting on a merge of the renabling patch21:11
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marunthere is a bug in the grenade gate that is delaying approval, but hopefully it goes in before any other bugs slip through21:11
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markmcclainmarun: do you have a number?21:12
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1210664 in tempest "neutron can't setup basic network connnectivity in gate jobs" [Undecided,In progress]21:12
marunthe fixes are in, it's just the tempest patch to enable the connectivity check that is pending21:12
markmcclainah cool21:13
salv-orlandomarun, markmcclain: the latest gating issue led me to think that probably we should try and cover more scenarios in tempest. What do you reckon?21:13
marunsalv-orlando: no comment21:13
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marunsalv-orlando: the lack of good lower-level testing make adding more scenarios a problematic choice21:14
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salv-orlandocool. Thanks for the input. I don't think this is the right meeting topic21:14
salv-orlandoso let's move on.21:14
marunfair enough21:14
markmcclainsalv-orlando: yeah I think we to bulk up the tests on a few different levels.. we should definitely setup a discussion on this21:15
markmcclainAny other bug items?21:16
nati_uenoThis is third times duplicated work for multi workers.21:16
nati_ueno# I'm not sure we should talk on it now21:17
markmcclainyeah.. this not really a bug as much as a new small feature21:17
marunWhatever is finally merged, is there consensus that a non-threaded mode is desirable to aid in debugging?21:17
jackmccannthere is a bp for multi-workers21:18
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nati_uenoOk I'll -2 for this patch, and let's go on meetings21:18
markmcclainjackmccann: right.. I think that is where the duplication occurred because one version filed via BP and the other via a bug21:19
nati_uenomarkmcclain: so is correct one?21:19
markmcclainmarun: yes it is nice to be able to trigger single threaded mode at times21:19
markmcclainnati_ueno: possibly I'll compare the different versions after the meeting21:20
marunmarkmcclain: I'll make a note on the bp21:20
markmcclainmarun: thanks21:20
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markmcclain#topic docs21:21
nati_uenomarkmcclain: Ok so could you -2 for After you decided correct one21:21
*** openstack changes topic to "docs (Meeting topic: networking)"21:21
markmcclainnati_ueno: done21:21
nati_uenomarkmcclain: Thanks21:21
emaganaPaul M. committed the VPNaaS API:
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emaganareviews are welcome!21:21
emaganaand needed!21:21
nati_uenoyes sir!21:22
annegentleoo! With samples, nice.21:22
markmcclainpcm_: thanks for writing the docs21:22
annegentleo/ wanted to ask a Q21:22
markmcclainannegentle: hi.. go ahead21:22
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annegentleThe doc team is noodling on two things -21:23
annegentleone is, assigning a "doc lead" per team. emagana has been doing a great job at this, just wanted to let you all know we want to replicate across teams21:23
annegentlebasically the doc lead will help triage doc bugs and help get info. emagana is good at this :)21:24
emaganaannegentle: Thanks!!21:24
annegentletwo is, we're probably going to "only" release the Install Guide and a Config Ref for Havana21:24
annegentlethis means a couple of things - the Network Admin Guide may have some sections deleted/moved21:24
markmcclain+1 I think having a doc lead is needed role21:25
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markmcclainok.. is there a preliminary list of sections to be cut or it too early?21:25
annegentleIt's possible the Network Admin Guide will fold into the Config Ref. I was able to do that for the Block Storage Admin Guide.21:25
annegentleNot so sure it'll work on the Network Admin Guide, but, it is a ton of config21:25
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annegentlemarkmcclain: for example, move install info into the install guide with one patch21:26
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markmcclainok.. agreed the network guide is definitely a lot of config21:27
annegentlemarkmcclain: your Admin guide is one I hate to do too much to, but it is mostly config21:27
annegentlemarkmcclain: all of this is to try to offer "OpenStack unified docs" rather than project-by-project... it's still under discussion21:27
annegentlemarkmcclain: but I want to bring it up at individual project meetings to get input and feedback21:27
annegentlemake sure we're not missing something obvious, and so on21:27
annegentlesince neutron's core it's pretty easy to say what "has" to be documented21:28
annegentleIntegrated, it's harder to say.21:28
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annegentleSo just wanted to share and let you all know what' we're noodling on ahead of release21:28
annegentleAnd, I want the teams to be able to know where to put docs21:28
nati_uenoannegentle: How about API guide?21:29
annegentlenati_ueno: the API guide remains the same21:29
nati_uenoannegentle: gotcha21:29
markmcclainthanks for sharing.. .I think unified docs make for a better user experience so I'm glad the discussion is occurring21:30
annegentlethis discussion is all about "release" docs21:30
annegentleAPI docs are ongoing21:30
annegentlemarkmcclain: thanks for having a docs topic in your meetings!21:30
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* annegentle is done now21:30
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salv-orlandoannegentle: I tend to agree with a unified admin guide for all openstack projects. My only latent concern is that it will become a sort of encyclopaedia (i.e.: huge set of books)21:31
salv-orlandoa bit like windows NT administrator guides21:31
annegentlesalv-orlando: oh believe me I share that concern :) it's intimidating as can be.21:31
annegentlesalv-orlando: I think the Operations Guide struck a balance, but it doesn't have SDN to speak of21:32
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annegentleit's totally possible that Networking needs its own guide21:32
salv-orlandoannegentle: SDN? what is SDN? ;) we understand only neutrons here21:32
annegentlesalv-orlando: hee hee21:33
* mestery chuckles.21:33
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annegentlewhat's your sense of Who are the admins? Operators? Network admins? Sys admins?21:33
annegentlewe have done some user analysis with the user committee's data but would like your sense of it too21:33
salv-orlandoIn my experience, we get all of them - but I do not have a lot of data points.21:34
annegentlesalv-orlando: yep21:34
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markmcclainmy experience has been a random mix of folks too.. really depends on the size of the deployment21:34
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markmcclainAny other doc items?21:35
annegentlemarkmcclain: yeah at a meetup in Austin 2 months ago I ran into a few network admins but they are few and far between. And they don't like SDN that much (security concerns mostly it seemed, like "you're gonna let users do what with my network? )21:35
salv-orlandoelect doc lead for Neutron?21:35
emagananew bug file for Mellanox plugin:
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1214117 in openstack-manuals "Include Mellanox plugin in networking guide" [Undecided,New]21:35
annegentlesalv-orlando: emagana volunteered! I don't wanna add more governance :)21:35
salv-orlandoso emagana is21:36
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annegentlesalv-orlando: though I consider you the point for API docs21:36
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nati_ueno+1 for emagana :)21:37
salv-orlandoannegentle: Yup, I am still the API docs guy.21:37
markmcclainspeaking of the API21:37
markmcclain#topic API21:38
*** openstack changes topic to "API (Meeting topic: networking)"21:38
salv-orlandoI haven't yet been moaning about API docs for the new features, because the guys have been really busy with the admin docs21:38
salv-orlandobut I will begin moaning, or barking, soon.21:38
salv-orlandoCodewise, everything is quiet on the API side.21:38
markmcclainexcept for the commit discussion21:38
salv-orlandoHowever, there is this thing about commit logic for Fw rules21:39
salv-orlandomarkmcclain: yup21:39
salv-orlandoI am happy to move the discussion to gerrtit21:39
salv-orlandounless we feel we want to chat about it here21:39
salv-orlandoin which case I suggest the open discussion topic21:39
salv-orlandoas we're already 42 mins into the meeting21:39
markmcclainok.. let's focus the discuss on the review21:39
markmcclain#topic VPNaaS21:40
*** openstack changes topic to "VPNaaS (Meeting topic: networking)"21:40
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nati_uenoOK still codes are in review.21:40
markmcclainnati_ueno: seems to be a bit of progress this week on whether to support openswan or strongswan21:40
markmcclainI understand the reason for switching21:41
nati_uenomarkmcclain: I'm going to support both. because RHEL only support openswan21:41
nati_uenomarkmcclain: Ah no, we don't switch, I'm adding both21:41
markmcclainbut wondering whether the burden will higher than if we just picked one21:41
markmcclainwhich would have to be openswan unless strong could be included in RDO correct?21:41
nati_uenomarkmcclain: it should be 200-300 line review burden
nati_uenomarkmcclain: so in other hand, may guys want to use StrongSwan,21:42
nati_uenomarkmcclain: so 200-300 lines code is good for this21:42
nati_uenomarkmcclain: also who don't like mounting can use openswan version21:43
marunnati_ueno: too much free time :P21:43
nati_uenomarun: free time?21:43
markmcclainright.. the burden will be more on docs and support as the there will be differences21:43
salv-orlandonati_ueno: is that patch for strong swan or open swan?21:43
marunnati_ueno: if resources are limited, pick one and get it right before supporting two21:43
nati_uenosalv-orlando: 42264 is for openswan21:43
salv-orlandocool the commit message confused me a bit (first line says openswan and the 2nd says 'wii' to support also openswan)21:44
nati_uenosalv-orlando: Ah sorry the patch is still WIP21:44
salv-orlandoso you will have a single driver for both openswan and strong swan?21:44
salv-orlandoor two drivers?21:44
nati_uenosalv-orlando: Two drivers21:44
nati_uenoOK so let's choose21:44
salv-orlandook - so chances of strong swan support breaking open swan are negligible?21:45
nati_uenoA) 1 driver with StronSwan21:45
nati_uenoB) 2 drvier21:45
nati_uenoC) 1 driver with OpenSwan21:45
nati_uenosalv-orlando: I believe so21:45
markmcclainlet's take a look at the reviews and can discuss this more over the ML21:45
nati_uenoAnyway, in future, we will have multiple drvier. so discussion is for H321:45
salv-orlandoI will vote for the safest solution, i.e.: the one in which I know openswan driver works pretty much everywhere.21:45
nati_uenomarkmcclain: gotcha21:46
nati_uenomarkmcclain: please note the openswan support is in WIP21:46
nati_uenoThat's all from me21:46
markmcclainnati_ueno: noted… thanks for the update21:46
markmcclain#topic Nova21:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova (Meeting topic: networking)"21:46
markmcclaingaryk: hi21:46
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openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x29c1990>21:48
markmcclain#topic FWaaS/SG21:48
*** openstack changes topic to "FWaaS/SG (Meeting topic: networking)"21:48
SumitNaiksatamfor FWaaS - Driver patch was merged, nice work RajeshMohan, and thanks to the reviewers21:48
SumitNaiksatamDevstack patch (rchunduru) and Horizon patch (KC) are awaiting (hopefully) a final push from the reviewers21:48
SumitNaiksatamand of course - the "hot" topic as voted by salv-orlando - commit API :-)21:49
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SumitNaiksatamI removed the WIP on the commit operation patch over the weekend, it's ready for review21:49
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan has started CLI work for this21:49
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SumitNaiksatam(my update is done)21:50
salv-orlandoI am reviewing the code, even if I will now suspend and resume when i wake up. I will comment on gerrit21:50
SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: thanks21:50
markmcclaingerrit is a good place to focus the discussion21:50
markmcclain#topic LBaaS21:51
*** openstack changes topic to "LBaaS (Meeting topic: networking)"21:51
markmcclainenikanorov: hi21:51
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enikanorovtwo major patches are pending21:51
enikanorovintegration with service type framework - I think we need some discussion about noop driver21:52
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enikanorovnati_ueno has a followup patch that applies the same approach to vpnaas21:52
nati_uenoSumitNaiksatam: FWaaS is going support this?21:53
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SumitNaiksatamnati_ueno: not in H3, there isn't' enough time21:53
SumitNaiksatamit wasn't planned to begin with21:54
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nati_uenoSumitNaiksatam: ok21:54
salv-orlandothe initial issue, to give more context, is 'what happens when a provider is removed'?21:54
enikanorovthere are a couple of issues, I believe. but right, that is where it started21:54
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salv-orlandoit seems, from previous discussions, that this a sort of 'natural' use case, and neutron should take steps for 'salvaging' orphaned resources21:55
salv-orlandonow, which steps should be taken, and how orphaned resources should be treated is what is being discussed21:55
enikanorovi think it's a part of the question21:55
salv-orlandoIt seems there's wide agreement on the communities working on VPN and LB on this approach21:55
salv-orlandoI don't know what people working on FW think of it.21:55
enikanorovmore generic is whether to allow update on 'provider' attribute21:56
nati_uenoIMO, we need provide way to remove a provider for admin21:56
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enikanorovi don't see why it should be restricted to admins, actually21:57
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salv-orlandoExactly what problem are you aiming at tackling for the Havana release?21:57
markmcclainI agree with enikanorov that should we restrict a tenant from switching for simplicity the answer for Havana might be no or will be something outside the scope we'll support21:57
markmcclain*should not21:57
enikanorovif we ever allow changing providers for the resource, we must support removing provider from resource as well21:58
enikanorovthat would be logicaly natural21:58
enikanorovand it also will cover the case of 'removed' provider21:58
markmcclainagreed.. honestly this feels a like a good summit session instead of something the cram in at the last minute21:59
salv-orlandoMy option would be to just deal, if we want, with the configuration issue arising from removing a provider which is used by active resources21:59
nati_uenoMy comment is for H3, so "at least admin can remove provider"21:59
enikanorovok. another phrasing could be 'creating pure logical resources'21:59
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salv-orlandoand as markmclain suggest, discuss provider associates updates and unbound resources at the summit22:00
markmcclainWe're running short on time, so we can carry this over to a ML discussion22:00
markmcclain#topic ML222:00
enikanorovok, sure22:00
salv-orlandoenikanorov: I think you'll find people arguing all neutron resources are purely logical, but let's move on22:00
markmcclainmestery:  want to update?22:00
*** openstack changes topic to "ML2 (Meeting topic: networking)"22:00
mesterymarmcclain: Hi22:00
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mesterySo, ML2 is coming along nicely. We're tracking the 2 final BPs for H3 now (port-binding and multi-segment API).22:01
mesteryWe are striving to get reviews out for those before feature freeze.22:01
mesteryAlso, some MechanismDrivers are close to merging as well, so that's good news.22:01
markmcclaingood news all around22:02
mesteryOverall, ML2 is humming along nicely.22:02
markmcclainthanks for the update22:02
mesterymarkmcclain: sure, thanks!22:02
markmcclain#topic Open Discussion22:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)"22:03
geoffarnoldAs I mentioned a couple of weeks ago, we’re submitting a (potentially controversial) proposal for managing multivendor multi-instance phys/virt L3-L7 resources. We’re talking about Icehouse, not Havana. We plan to demo a proof-of-concept implementation in Hong Kong and discuss including it in the Icehouse program. I’ve just posted the Blueprint: it’s at
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enikanorov -2 minutes left for open discussion22:03
enikanorov-3 even22:03
nati_uenoFYI we can see list of reviews here sorted by priorites22:03
mesterygeoffarnold: Thanks for the link, will take a peek at this.22:04
markmcclaingeoffarnold: make sure you submit a design session when it opens22:04
enikanorovgeoffarnold: broken link?22:04
mesterygeoffarnold: broken link22:04
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markmcclainwith the conference and summit running concurrently it is hard for many on the core team to see too many conference sessions until the videos are posted22:04
geoffarnoldFull version here:
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geoffarnoldI've submitted a conf session; I'll submit a design session too22:05
markmcclainAny other open discussion items?22:05
markmcclainsince enikanorov pointed out we're over time :)22:05
markmcclainI want to thank everyone for their hard work getting the proposals in on time22:07
markmcclainBe on the lookout for a few discussions to spring up the ML or the gerrit reviews we discussed22:07
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openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 19 22:07:53 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:07
openstackMinutes (text):
mesterymarkmcclain: Thank you as well for the great work leading hte team!22:08
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russianHey guys, please check
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