Thursday, 2013-09-19

Daisyno sorry, ujuc_phone .00:00
DaisyYou must work hard recently.00:00
DaisyTime to start the meeting now.00:00
Daisy#startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting00:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 19 00:00:32 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.00:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'00:00
DaisyGood morning, ujuc_phone and fifieldt .00:00
DaisyGood evening, gabrielcw !00:01
gabrielcwgood evening!00:01
Daisyanybody else? Akihiro will be several minutes late.00:01
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Daisyok. we will start.00:01
Daisy#topic Action items from the last meeting00:02
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DaisyDaisy to add diango_openstack_auth to Transifex.00:02
DaisyDaisy to get another tester for Horizon I18n.00:02
DaisyAkihiro and I wrote the wiki page "How to test Horizon with DevStack", and broadcasted to the mailing list. There were some people who responsed and would like to test.00:02
DaisyI see somebody else is reporting I18n bugs to Horizon yesterday. So I will mark this one as done.00:03
DaisyFdot is going to see with the Cloudwatt horizon team if they can help on testing the french translation with Daisy00:03
DaisyFdot is not here. I don't see his response. I can check with him next meeting.00:03
gabrielcwnice, I will test this weekend I hope00:04
gabrielcwin Portuguese00:04
DaisyGreat, gabrielcw !00:04
DaisyI find it's very easy to verify the translation when I run Horizon. :)00:04
gabrielcwI agree, I used to do some small changes in the django code00:04
gabrielcwin an HP project00:05
DaisyBTW, I like DevStack very much, when I set up OpenStack in a half day in my locale machine.00:05
gabrielcwdevstack is very handy00:05
gabrielcwyeah :)00:05
Daisynext one: Daisy to track the progress of ja document website.00:05
DaisySorry I'm a little lost with this work. I see the job is ready in Jenkins. I don't know the website progress.00:05
DaisyI will leave this work item to next meeting.00:06
Daisy#action: Daisy to track the progress of ja document website.00:06
DaisyDaisy to send the glossary cvs file to Fdot00:06
DaisyIt's done. The glossary can be downloaded and uploaded as a CVS file. If there are other teams who would like to translate the glossary in CVS format, feel free to contact with me.00:07
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gabrielcwWhat`s the size of the glossary?00:07
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DaisyLet me check.00:08
gabrielcwoh, I check it later, just tell me where it is00:08
gabrielcwI ask because now I have more people helping, and I can ask them. I cannot do it right now00:08
Daisyok. I guess it's around 200-300.00:09
fifieldtI find it useful to update the glossary as I find a word that gets used frequently00:09
DaisyI don't know the exact number.00:09
fifieldtit's quite simple through the interface to do this00:09
DaisyAgree, fifieldt .00:09
gabrielcwok, thanks and where can I download it?00:09
DaisyWhen I do the translation, I feel there may be two kinds of glossarys. One are those doc team summarized.  The others are those translators summarized.00:10
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DaisyAll openstack projects are sharing a same glossary.00:11
gabrielcwvery nice00:11
Daisycan we move to next topic ?00:12
Daisy#Horizon translation progress report00:12
DaisyFrom the dashboard, we can see:00:12
Daisy5 languages completed: Japanese, Portuguese (Brazil), Chinese (China), English (Australia), Korean (Korea).00:12
Daisyyoshiyama:you are just in time. :)00:13
yoshiyamaHi all.00:13
DaisyThanks very much to the these langauge teams.00:13
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Daisy6 languages have completed more than a half: French 70%, Polish (Poland) 64%, Spanish 64%, Chinese (Taiwan) 61%, Czech 61%, Finnish (Finland) 49%00:13
DaisyYet not all of these 6 languages are active, because the completion rate 60% may be caused by the old version (Grizzly) of Horizon translation importing to the new version (Havanna).00:13
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DaisyI looked into the translation log each team by each team. I see the active languages are: French, Polish (Poland), Spanish, Russian, German, Portuguese.00:14
DaisyNo team have completed the review. Portuguese (Brazil), French, and Russian team make good progress in the review.00:15
Daisyany comments?00:15
yoshiyamaMotoki-san built a test site to check messages of Horizon. It's very helpful.00:15
DaisyCan people access this website?00:16
gabrielcwgreat idea00:16
yoshiyamaPerhaps yes.00:16
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DaisyHi guys. Do you have any thoughts to push the translation ?00:17
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gabrielcwI believe the stuck languages don`t have active coordinators, right?00:18
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Daisyright, gabrielcw00:18
fifieldtI was thinking maybe we could contact the existing translators for these languages and ask if anyone wants to be a coordinator?00:19
gabrielcwwe could maybe ask if the still want the role, and then announce we are looking for people.00:19
Daisyand in some language team, maybe only the coordinator is working.00:19
gabrielcwthis won't solve this release but at least for the next one we can have progress...00:19
gabrielcwWell I was in this case00:19
Daisyujuc_phone: are there any people helping you to do the translation?00:20
gabrielcwbut then I got to go after people to help out after all00:20
yoshiyamaI found the topic:!topic/openstack-ja/B30jewdeVEk00:20
Daisygreat !00:20
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gabrielcwin fact only in review time I got help, it was when the translation got visible with some Tom emails on the lists...00:20
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Daisyso after Horizon release, we should ask for more cooridnators.00:21
yoshiyamaIt contains the url and accounts.00:21
Daisyyoshiyama: I feel if there is a live Horizon for people to see their translation, it will defintely promote the quality. :)00:22
DaisyI have this idea too, but I'm not able to find a host.00:22
Daisyfind a machine to host Horizon.00:22
fifieldthow much resource do you need?00:22
Daisyfifieldt: ?00:23
fifieldteg is 1 cpu enough00:23
DaisyI think all in one is enough.00:23
Daisy1 cpu00:23
fifieldtso, we might be able to create a new machine in the #openstack-infra system00:23
DaisyI remember there is a trystack?00:23
fifieldtwhich uses their existing devstack scripts00:23
fifieldtand updates it every day or so00:24
fifieldtwith translations00:24
Daisygreat idea, fifieldt !00:24
fifieldtit would be tricky to set up initially00:24
fifieldtbut once it was running it should be good00:24
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gabrielcwdevstack requirements are very low00:24
fifieldtthe alternate, if you wanted something more quickly, is to use the rackspace free offer for openstack developers00:24
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DaisyI think I want it to set up, but not in a hurry, because we are very reach the end of Havanna release now.00:25
yoshiyamaMotoki-san's devstack environment to review messages of Horizon:
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Daisywe may not be able to use it in this release.00:25
Daisyfifieldt: who is operating the trystack?00:26 is operated by Dan Radez at RedHat00:26
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DaisyHow can I start the converstaion with rackspace free offer?00:27
DaisyI may need to check with them one by one to see who would like to help.00:27
oubiwannDaisy: ping jesse.noller@rackspace.com00:27
fifieldtI think it is
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oubiwannand, yes -- what fifieldt said00:28
oubiwannbut if you need any help, jesse's you guy00:28
Daisythank you, oubiwann .00:28
oubiwannyou bet!00:28
DaisyLet me try if I can find the good guy.00:28
Daisyfind a good people. :)00:28
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gabrielcwyoshiyama: can we use this Horizon to check other languages?00:29
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Daisyok. so in a summary, there are two things we need to do after these busy days: check the unactive teams to see if someone else would like to be the coordinators; look for a place to run a live Horizon to verify the translation.00:30
yoshiyamaI think yes, but I have to confirm it to Motoki-san.00:30
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Daisymay we move to next topic ?00:31
Daisy#The merging time and criteria of Horizon translations00:31
DaisyFrom the wiki page, I see the first RC date is Sep 26, and the final release date is Oct 17.00:31
DaisyFirst, the merging time.00:31
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Daisyyoshiyama: your thoughts?00:31
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Daisyactually, I don't know if there are RC2, or RC3.00:32
yoshiyamaMotoki-san said that Sep. 24th looked the limit to translate.00:33
Daisymaybe nobody can tell that before RC1. Julie Pichon told me whether there are RC2 and RC3 depends.00:33
gabrielcwyeah, generally depends on the quality and issues of RC100:34
Daisyright, gabrielcw00:34
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DaisyI suggest we do a merge before each release?00:34
fifieldtand we should make sure to have the attention of reviewers00:35
fifieldtso they can easily approve00:35
fifieldtwe don't want to miss out :D00:35
DaisyWe need help from Horizon team. Horizon team will know exactly the release date, and they will do a merge maybe 2 days before each release.00:35
Daisygood idea, fifieldt .00:35
gabrielcwiDo we have something to translate on the openstack_auth?00:35
DaisyWe have two developers from Horizon development team to support us. I think we won't miss out.00:36
Daisyopenstack_auth is used by the log in page.00:36
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Daisywe need to translate it, but the openstack_auth owner needs to merge our translation and deliver a binary release.00:37
gabrielcwsure! I wasn't linking the name Daisy00:37
Daisyopenstack_auth is a binary dependent library to OpenStach Dashboard.00:37
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Daisyso next one: the criteria00:38
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DaisySince the review progress is slow, I think, maybe we should use 100% translation as the criteria.00:39
gabrielcwI think it's great to have as many languages as possible available, but on the other hand I wonder if som low quality translation with typos, won't generate a bad image and critics00:40
gabrielcwI think that typos are worse than incomplete.00:40
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fifieldtmaybe a test on the dashboard for each language can more easily review the most common strings00:40
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Daisyright, fifieldt .00:40
fifieldtthere are many strings which people might not see00:41
fifieldtso they are slightly less critical than the ones eg on the login page00:41
fifieldtand I guess if the "always visible" strings are correct00:41
DaisyI don't review those translation one by one, but I run it and see the strings from the UI. I correct the strings I feel not correct.00:41
fifieldtthen criticism is unlikely00:41
gabrielcwI found during review that some old strings even had the inverse meaning! like can instead of can't00:41
fifieldtouch :D00:41
Daisywe need a responsible coordinator. :))00:42
Daisywe need responsible coordinators.00:42
gabrielcwMaybe we could ask the team coordinators of those not complete00:42
gabrielcwif he/she thinks it`s already ready to ship00:43
DaisyLet's say, we merge 100% translation before RC1, and then we ask the coordinators of these language team to verify the strings from the web page.00:43
DaisyWe still have time to correct those wrong strings before the final release.00:44
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DaisySo we need a live Horizon urgently now. Thus the coordinators can find a place to check the translations.00:44
fifieldtsounds good00:44
yoshiyamaGood morning, Motoki-san.00:44
Daisyhow can I quickly get a live Horizon running?00:45
gabrielcwat least we would have a go from someone who knows better the languages00:45
amotokisorry. deleayed...00:45
Daisyamotoki: good morning.00:45
gabrielcwHi amotoki00:45
Daisywe are discussing about the merging time and criteria of Horizon translations now.00:45
ujuc_phoneHi amotoki00:45
amotokihi all00:45
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Daisyabout the merging time, our agreement is:  Horizon team will know exactly the release date, and they will do a merge maybe 2 days before each release.00:46
yoshiyamaWe discussed that we need help from horizon delelopers.00:46
Daisydo you have comments to this one?00:47
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amotokii am not sure the exact date00:47
amotokibut rc1 release date can be determined by each project.00:48
Daisyabout the criteria, we merge 100% translation before RC1, and then we ask the coordinators of these language team to verify the strings from the web page. It will be better if we can set up a live Horizon website.00:48
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DaisyIs RC1 determined?00:49
amotokijapanese team has horizon check site. i can pull all languages from transifex.00:49
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DaisyIs the date of RC1 decided?00:49
amotokiperhaps we will discuss it in the next horizon meeting.00:49
amotokinot yet on the date.00:49
Daisyok. Can you help to pull the 100% translation and merge them before each release?00:50
Daisyamotoki: can I assign an action item to you: pull all languages from transifex in the Japanese horizon check site?00:51
amotokiDaisy: okay00:51
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Daisy#action amotoki pull all languages from transifex in the Japanese horizon check site00:51
Daisyok. we can move to next topic now.00:52
Daisy#Icehouse design summit session proposals in I18n areas00:52
DaisyThere is no specific track about I18n in the design summit till now. So we may need to raise those topics in other tracks.00:52
DaisyHere is the design summit link:
DaisyWho will go to the summit?00:52
* fifieldt waves00:52
DaisyAnne Gentle has submitted a proposal "Publishing translated documentation".00:53
DaisyDo you have any ideas in your mind?00:53
DaisyI have two: Separate the log message domain and the user facing message domain (Oslo);  Consider translation and I18n test in the release lifecycle (Release management)00:54
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DaisyIf you have, please submit.00:54
Daisywe have 5 minutes left.00:55
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Daisylet's go to next topic?00:55
Daisy#Open discussion00:55
Daisy#topic Open discussion00:56
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Daisywe have 5 minutes left.00:56
Daisyif no addtional discuss, we can close the meeting.00:57
* fifieldt has nothing00:57
gabrielcwI don't have nothing today00:57
amotokinothing from me. i will catch up the discussion later from the log.00:57
gabrielcwWhat about the next meeting hours?00:57
Daisygood, gabrielcw00:57
DaisyThank you, amotoki !00:57
gabrielcwI meant, on this time slot00:58
DaisyWhich one do you prefer, gabrielcw ?00:58
gabrielcwthis one :)00:58
DaisyI'm good to both.00:58
Daisyhow about others?00:58
gabrielcw9PM for me00:58
gabrielcwbetter than 10PM00:58
Daisyagree, gabrielcw00:58
Daisyif there is no opposition, we will use the new time?00:58
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Daisyok. we use the new time.00:59
Daisygreat !00:59
DaisyI will start my holidays from today: the Mid-Autumn Festivals in China.00:59
DaisyI will be back to office next Monday.01:00
gabrielcwhave a nice holiday!01:00
amotoki :) thanks01:00
yoshiyamaHave a good horiday!01:00
DaisyYes, fifieldt ! I believe you will feel the happiness in China these days.01:00
fifieldtindeed :)01:00
Daisyso I close the meeting.01:01
fifieldttime to eat mooncake01:01
yoshiyamaFYI: I and Hasegawa-san were selected to push for OpenStack Ambassador in JOSUG board members.01:01
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 19 01:01:49 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)01:01
openstackMinutes (text):
DaisyThank you all !01:02
gabrielcwthanks, goodbye everyone!01:03
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ujuc_phoneHave a niceday~~~ me... Horiday start~~01:03
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gvdm_Today at 02.00 pm there will be the LBaaS meeting (
gvdm_what are the topics?07:36
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gvdm_hi [09:35] <gvdm_> Today at 02.00 pm there will be the LBaaS meeting ( [09:36] <gvdm_> what are the topics?07:53
gvdm_hi. Today at 02.00 pm there will be the LBaaS meeting ( What are the topics?07:54
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gvdm_hi. Today there will be the LBaaS meeting. What are the topics?11:04
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jd__#startmeeting ceilometer15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 19 15:00:19 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
jd__hello everybody15:00
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jd__#topic Review Havana RC1 milestone15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Havana RC1 milestone (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:02
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jd__so we still got our blueprints unmerged, that's bad15:02
jd__though I think we're coming to an end fortuantely15:03
* eglynn busily working thru' review comments on
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eglynn... will have another iteration up shortly15:03
jd__the release manager virtual deadline is tomorrow15:03
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jd__so nose on the grindstone like eglynn would say15:03
eglynn... grinding like crazy :)15:04
silehtsame for me :)15:04
jd__I also went through our bug list to mark the ones important for RC115:04
jd__so the list on the page should be up to date15:05
jd__don't forget to add this as a milestone if you want this to be fixed for rc1 when reporting new bugs15:05
jd__and also feel free to review the list yourself if you think I missed something important :)15:05
jd__there's also a couple of bugs that you can see at that don't have assignees15:05
eglynnI need to chase dprince on
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1224666 in ceilometer "alarm_history_project_fkey Constraint fails on el6 MySQL" [High,Triaged]15:05
jd__so volunteers welcome15:06
eglynn(seems to me that issue should have gone away since landed)15:06
jd__eglynn: ack, I guess you can test it?15:06
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eglynnjd__: yep, I've done so15:06
jd__end of my speech for RC1, questions?15:06
eglynn(will confirm with dprince in any case ...)15:06
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jd__#topic Release python-ceilometerclient?15:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:08
jd__I don't think we need that yet15:08
jd__we may want to release once sileht changes on alarming got merged15:08
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eglynnyep wait on
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jd__#topic Open discussion15:10
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jd__I'm out of topic :)15:10
silehtwsme support return code \o/15:10
eglynn204s, 201s, the joy of it! :)15:10
thomasmLooks like the tests got resolved. Thanks for that. =]15:11
nadyaguys, do you have any docs related to Autoscaling integration with heat?15:11
lsmolanadya, would like to read that also15:11
eglynnnot that I'm aware of, asalkeld may have something on the wiki15:12
jd__I would hope it doesn't need any documentation ;)15:12
eglynn(IIRc he's back from vacation on Monday)15:12
nadyaall the changes will be in their part?15:12
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silehtnadya, a example for heat template:
nadyasileht, thanks!15:13
silehtnadya, all you needs have been merged15:13
sandywalshjust in case you missed the email, we're pushing hard for more notification support in openstack projects.15:13
sandywalshbeat the drum "more events!" :)15:14
jd__btw, PTL elections will start tomorrow and I think I heard ttx needed officials to help, if some of you are interested15:14
silehtsandywalsh, cool reports15:14
lexxhi now i do IPMI implementation for monitoring physical devices. What data you prefer to collect there?15:14
jd__lexx: everything?15:15
eglynnlexx: do you mean monitoring over IPMI itself?15:15
gordcjd__: agreed.15:15
eglynnlexx: (... does that expose everything we currently gather from the hypervisor in the libvirt case?)15:16
jd__eglynn: I think it's remotely read, no? lexx?15:16
gordclexx: are you building off this bp: ?15:17
gordclexx: cool cool15:17
* eglynn reads ...15:17
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lexxwe already have snmp implementation15:17
lexxbut i should know which data should collected by IPMI implementation15:18
dragondmwhatever you can get?15:19
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eglynnyeah that was kinda my original question15:19
lsmolalexx, what are the advantages over snmp Hardware agent?15:19
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eglynni.e. what is available for collection over IPMI?15:20
lexxspeed Fan, voltage, temperature15:20
sandywalshpower on/off would be great (especially for heat)15:20
lsmolalexx, oh cool15:21
sandywalshbios change for security15:21
sandywalshos failure15:21
sandywalshsounds like a combination of events and meters15:22
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nadyaone more question from me. I sae several hbase-related bps on launchpad. they are approved but not started since May. Is there any activity about that anythere :)?15:22
lsmolasandywalsh, that is great, that is exactly what we need in Tuskar ans TripleO15:22
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lsmolasandywalsh, also health monitor of host in Horizon will be great15:24
gordcnadya: are you volunteering? :)15:24
nadyagordc, thinking about this :)15:24
thomasmnadya, I just implemented duplicating resource metadata in the meter collection from the HBase driver. That's the only activity on it that I'm aware of.15:25
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gordcnadya: i'd say hbase is probably the least actively supported of the backends we have... i don't think anyone will fight over it with you.15:25
lexxsandywalsh, I didn't find any documentation for pypmi. I prefer to use a ipmitool in subprocess15:25
thomasmnadya, But, I'm not an HBase maintainer, just wanted to address the bug I was working on for every driver.15:25
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sandywalshlsmola, yeah, I can see ironic using that too15:26
nadyagordc, ok, I see. Thank you for answer15:26
sandywalshlexx, there seems to be several implementations, which is good15:26
nadyathomasm, thanks for info!15:26
thomasmnadya, sure thing15:26
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jd__nadya: definitely cool if you can take over HBase maintenance :)15:27
lsmolasandywalsh, cool, I think tripleo is still using Nova-baremetal, but we should switch to to Ironic soon15:27
lsmolalexx, putting you as a depency for Tuskar integration15:28
lsmolalexx, will put it also in Horizon, once i figure out where :-) though it will be something with statistics of Hosts15:28
nadyajd__, I love HBase :) But I'm new in ceilometer so I need to dive into it first15:29
jd__nadya: sure :)15:30
lexxlsmola, no in not. But statistics of hosts already collect by SNMP15:30
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lsmolalexx, if you mean the Hardware agent, it is collecting only few of them15:32
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lsmolalexx, the one named by you and sandywalsh are not there as far a I know15:32
lsmolalexx, would be cool to add it15:33
lsmolalexx, for tuskar and a tripleo, we are monitoring only the hardware, so this will be very welcome15:33
lsmolalexx, is the some way to monitor e.g. disk health?15:34
lsmolalexx, in general, we are finding a way how to measure the health of the Hardware15:35
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lsmolalexx, so any failures will be usable i guess15:35
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lsmolalexx, cool15:37
lsmolalexx, thank you very much15:37
lexxno problem)15:37
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:38
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 19 15:38:15 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:38
lsmolalexx, is there somewhere full list of data it can collect?15:38
jd__thanks guys! :)15:38
openstackMinutes (text):
eglynnright-o, the grindstone awaits ... ;)15:38
thomasmHave a great day/night!15:38
jd__lsmola: lexx: sorry if I interrupted, you can continue on #openstack-metering! :)15:38
gordclsmola: lexx: if there is a list, it'd be nice to add it to bp.15:38
lsmolathank you, have a great day15:38
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lsmolagordc, definitelly15:39
lsmolajd__, np15:39
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lexxI dont find it, but I will create it by myself15:40
lexxand will add it15:40
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lsmolalexx, cool thank you very much15:42
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mtreinish#startmeeting qa17:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 19 17:00:03 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:00
mtreinishwho's here for the meeting?17:00
mtreinishok here today's agenda:17:01
mtreinishlets get started17:01
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mtreinish#topic neutron testing status17:01
*** openstack changes topic to "neutron testing status (Meeting topic: qa)"17:01
mtreinishmlavalle: are you around?17:01
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mlavalleYes i am17:02
mtreinishok, any update on neutron testing?17:02
mlavallemtreinish: I've been debugging isolated_creds17:02
mlavallemtreinish: as you know, I am having a race issue. With the latest run you sent me…..17:03
mlavalleI think I need to add exception handling when I don't find the port in cleanup_ports17:03
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mlavallethat's going to be my next patchset17:04
mtreinishmlavalle: ok, we talk about the details of the patch after the meeting I had some questions17:04
mtreinishis there anything else on the neutron front?17:04
mlavalleI would also like to request a run of the neutron_full gate job17:04
afazekascan we merge the partially working isolation patch now ?17:04
mtreinishafazekas: it'll fail on clean up17:05
mtreinishmlavalle: I think it's in the experimental queue17:05
mlavalleright now is disabled. I want to see the status of a run, after all the changes that have been merged17:05
mlavallecan you point me to it?17:05
mtreinishmlavalle: I think you leave a zero comment 'check experimental'17:06
mtreinishdkranz: is that right?17:06
dkranzmtreinish: Yes.17:06
mlavallemtreinish: ok, with that I will be able to gauge how much more work we need to do to fix it for godd17:07
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mlavallethat's all I have17:07
mtreinishok cool17:07
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mtreinishlet's move on then17:07
mtreinish#topic blueprints17:07
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)"17:07
afazekasThe patch makes closer to a working network isolation  ant it is easier to continue if it is merged, it does not have any negative impact  to the  current jobs17:07
mtreinishare there any blueprints that we need to discuss?17:07
mtreinishafazekas: I'm not comfortable merging code that doesn't work17:08
mtreinishok if there aren't any blueprints to bring up then lets move17:09
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mtreinish#topic Critical Reviews17:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:09
mlavalleafazekas: I don't feel comfortable either, yet. let me wrestle with it a little longer17:09
mtreinishare there any reviews that people need to get eyes on?17:09
dkranzmlavalle: You should do the check experimental in a tempest patch. It was not added to all projects.17:09
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Anjuthis one17:10
dkranzmtreinish: is very old and I hope can be approved.17:10
mtreinishok I've got them open on my browser I'll take a look after the meeting17:11
dkranzAnju: That link was merged17:11
mtreinishand any other cores can pick them off too17:11
giulivomtreinish, one more, it's not critical but useful to figure what is good and what isn't for the stable branches17:11
mtreinishAnju: yeah it is17:11
mtreinishAnju: it's also a nova patch17:11
Anjumtreinish:  this one17:11
giulivobtw is a cherry pick17:12
Anjui want to how to proceed in v3 tests17:12
mkoderer got several -1's17:12
mtreinishgiulivo: yeah I see that we can talk about that after the meeting17:12
mtreinishok are there any other reviews?17:13
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dkranzmkoderer: I don't think the -1s are valid at this point.17:13
Anjumtreinish, mkoderer , giulivo , dkranz ,afazekas : i know the topic is not for v3 tests. but need a direction...17:13
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Anjumtreinish, mkoderer , giulivo , dkranz ,afazekas : two times -1 in this patch17:14
mtreinishdkranz: yeah it just needs a rebase probably17:14
malini2sorry to interrupt -- but do we not have a security meeting today?17:14
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mtreinishmalini2: it's in an hour I think17:14
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mtreinishAnju: there is nothing wrong with the v3 tests but that one just needs a rebase17:15
mtreinishthat commit is a straight copy and paste of the v2 tests17:15
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dkranzmtreinish: To be clear, we have adopted the copy/modify approach and are ready to move on any v3 reviews, right?17:15
Anjuafazekas:  is this ok?17:15
mtreinishdkranz: I think that's what the plan is. I didn't really agree with it but the consensus was against me so I'm fine with it now :)17:16
Anjuyour comments to  more inheritance and less copy-paste ?17:16
afazekasAnju: It is the faster way to get v3 test, adding same inheritance is possible latter17:16
dkranzmtreinish: What did you propose?17:16
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mtreinishjust adding v3 tests as individual patches don't bother copying and pasting17:16
mtreinishand maybe break it up into smaller patches in a longer series17:17
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dkranzmtreinish: but the end result is still a full copy of tests for v3?17:17
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dkranzmtreinish: I was talking about copy/modify vs attemped inheritance17:17
mtreinishyeah the copy/modify is the way they're going to do it17:18
dkranzmtreinish: I don't remember a discussion and don't really have an opinion about how we get there17:18
dkranzmtreinish: But we can move on now.17:18
mtreinishit was on the ml and partially in a review at one point17:18
mtreinishyeah ok let's go to the next topic17:18
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mtreinish#topic How to handle bug fixes in launchpad17:19
*** openstack changes topic to "How to handle bug fixes in launchpad (Meeting topic: qa)"17:19
mtreinishso this one is mine17:19
mtreinishduring the bug day earlier this week we noticed that all the fixed bugs were in the fix committed state17:19
mtreinishit used to immediately go into fix released after the patch was merged17:20
mtreinishthere seemed to be a bit of disagreement over which approach was better17:20
afazekasIMHO after it merged it should go the Fix released state automatically or with 1-7 day delay17:20
dkranzafazekas: I agree17:20
mtreinishso I just wanted to bring it up during the meeting to see if there was a strong opinion one way or the other17:20
mtreinishafazekas: ok yeah that's what I'm leaning towards again17:21
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mtreinishI can revert for jeepb to switch it back to the old behavior then17:21
dkranzmtreinish: Thanks.17:21
mtreinishok this was a quick topic17:21
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mtreinish#topic Bogus errors in logs one more time17:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Bogus errors in logs one more time (Meeting topic: qa)"17:22
mtreinishdkranz: you're up17:22
dkranzSo I was trying to see if there was a failure in the neutron logs and saw that it too has lots of bogus ERROR/stacktrace17:22
giulivomtreinish, and eventually move whatever is in fix committed to fix released ?17:22
dkranzThat show up even on successful runs17:22
afazekasthe tempest.log should have a thread/pid number17:22
mtreinishgiulivo: yeah that was the intent of switching leaving it in fix committed17:23
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dkranzinfra has agreed they could put in a regexp on the logs to fail a build if bogus errors show up17:23
dkranzPart of fixing this issues is educating developers about what log.error should be used and not used for.17:23
dkranzThe second part is giving some priority to fixing the bogus ones17:24
mtreinishdkranz: yeah I've seen overuse of log.ERROR before too17:24
afazekasI hope it will not lead to not using the error or critical level when it is required17:24
mtreinishI think sdague was working on a whitelist at one point17:24
dkranzThe third part is defining a "whitelist" so that infra can start failing builds that introduce new ones.17:24
mtreinishor that might have just been for stacktraces17:24
dkranzmtreinish: I haven17:25
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dkranzI haven't heard any one disagree with these points but I'm not sure how to make it happen.17:25
dkranzParticularly the priority part17:25
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dkranzI don't know why people don't think this has customer/user impact17:25
dkranzIt was a major headache with the system I ran.17:26
mtreinishdkranz: well we can make a blueprint for this, for the priority one it's really 2 parts identifying the spurious log messages and then opening bugs for them17:26
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mtreinishand marking them as high priority bugs17:26
jog0it would be nice to see some of this before Havana is cut17:26
dkranzmtreinish: Yeah. THere are already a bunch of bugs I filed a while ago.17:26
dkranzmtreinish: I can take another pass at this.17:27
dkranzBut really some one from each team should grep there logs and go from there17:27
mtreinishI think the best way to start going about this is to send out a post to the ML to try to get a wider audience17:27
dkranzmtreinish: Sure. But I've done that before :(17:28
jog0we can use logstash for this i think17:28
mtreinishjog0: yeah logstash will be useful for this too17:28
dkranzjog0: How?17:28
jog0(for finding what stactraces happen today)17:28
giulivodkranz, mtreinish how about going the opposite route which is collecting what is logged as error also when tempest succeeds and post it to the -dev list ?17:28
dkranzgiulivo: That is exactly what I was talking about17:28
giulivooh I thought asking -dev to inspect17:29
dkranzgiulivo: Yes, to inspect the bogus ERROR in their logs17:29
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giulivook so I was just suggesting -qa/-infra inspects the logs first and post the bogus messages17:29
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jog0@message:Traceback* AND @fields.filename:"logs/screen-n-api.txt"17:30
jog0dkranz: ^ put that in logstash.openstack.org17:30
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mtreinishdkranz: there should probably be a summit topic on this too.17:30
dkranzmtreinish: OK, I'll put one in.17:31
mtreinishbut we want to start it before havana17:31
jog0'message:Traceback* AND @fields.filename:"logs/screen-n-api.txt" AND @fields.build_status:"SUCCESS"' will tell you for only passing jobs17:31
dkranzjog0: OK17:31
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dkranzjog0: There are also bogus ERROR without stacktrace17:31
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mtreinishthere is also the script in tools17:32
mtreinishalthough I haven't used it at all17:32
dkranzmtreinish: I will do something17:32
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afazekaswhere the white list should be stored ? is the devstack-gate repo good for whitelist ?17:33
mtreinishafazekas: it should probably be separate17:33
dkranzafazekas: Sean had some idea for this but didn't tell me details17:33
mtreinishdkranz: well then we can all bug him when he gets back.17:34
mtreinishdkranz: it probably wouldn't hurt to start a bp on this now17:34
mtreinishand we can fill in the details after we have some more discussion about how to do it17:34
dkranzmtreinish: OK, I'll do that.17:34
afazekastempest  or infra bp ?17:34
dkranzmtreinish: The problem is that it is really a cross-project blueprint17:34
dkranzmtreinish: We as a community don't always do so well with those.17:35
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mtreinishdkranz: yeah, it really doesn't fit too well in one project. Just stick it somewhere I guess17:35
mtreinishwe can make individual project bps too17:35
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mtreinishand use dependency to track them17:35
mtreinishthat's what I did for the coverage extension17:35
dkranzmtreinish: That's a good idea.17:36
dkranzmtreinish: I'll figure out which projects have issues and open them in each17:36
dkranzmtreinish: tempest is probably the one project that won't require code changes :)17:36
psedlakisn't the infra obvious choice for that (bogus errors), what would be the reason to create it as tempest bp?17:36
jog0if we can gate on no new stacktraces before Havana is out that would be really amazing17:36
dkranzjog0: Yes17:37
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dkranzjog0: To be clear, are you distinguishing between incorrect ERRORs that have stacktraces and those that don't?17:37
dkranzjog0: If we make "rules" for developers we have to be very precise17:38
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afazekasif there is an ERROR message  without detailed info it is a double -1 :)17:39
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dkranzIMO, ERROR in log should be for something the operator *should* understand/investigate17:39
dkranzAnd can thus be used as a monitoring alert17:40
jog0I agree with dkranz.  I think its better to take a smaller step at first and just worry about stacktraces and not errors17:40
dkranzswift is hopeless in this regard17:40
mtreinishdkranz: +1 (not about swift I haven't really looked at swift logs much)17:41
mtreinishdkranz: ok is there anything else on this topic?17:41
rockygGotta start somewhere.  +117:41
dkranzjog0: I'm ok with that.17:41
dkranzJust want to make sure if people agree with my statement about ERROR above17:41
dkranzat 13:3917:42
afazekasdkranz: I assume syslog con be configured to separate the swift logs17:42
mtreinishdkranz: I do (that's what the +1 was for)17:42
dkranzafazekas: Sure17:42
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jog0dkranz: why not punt the ERROR msg stuff till Icehouse17:42
dkranzmtreinish: OK, great. I'll report next week on my progress.17:42
jog0consensus and all)17:42
mtreinishjog0: yeah that makes sense17:42
mtreinishdkranz: ok you'll get a semi-permanent spot on the agenda then :)17:43
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dkranzmtreinish: :)17:43
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mtreinishok then let's open the floor17:43
rockyg Error in log means investigate to any ops guy.  So better have enough info for them to stay to dog e17:43
mtreinish#topic open discussion17:43
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: qa)"17:43
mtreinishare there any topics to bring up with what time is left?17:44
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jog0mtreinish: you can mention the work we have been doing17:44
mtreinishoh yeah this is a good forum to discuss that17:44
afazekasThe pid/thread should be logged in the tempest.log , inorder to distinguish the logs from different workers17:45
mtreinishso jog0 and I have been working on a bot that watches the gerrit stream for tempest failures17:45
mtreinishand then use logstash to find fingerprints for open bugs17:45
mtreinishand report back on irc and the gerrit commit with what it found17:45
mtreinishyou've probably seen RecheckWatchBot on the -qa channel17:46
jog0well a human stil has to find the fingerprint but then we use logstash to classify the failures17:46
mtreinishyeah that's what I meant (I didn't word it clearly)17:46
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mtreinishwe're going to be moving it over to infra soon and will have everything up in gerrit too17:46
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dkranzmtreinish: That's cool.17:47
dkranzmtreinish: Who do we expect to look at this, and what do we expect them to do?17:47
mtreinishdkranz: it's mostly to lower the developer load for using recheck17:48
jog0dkranz: you and the patch author17:48
mtreinishand avoid duplicate bugs17:48
afazekasWhat is the easiest way to find the logs relates a recheck ? on the recheck page you see the change number, but you need to click a lot for getting to the real job logs17:48
dkranzjog0: Ah17:48
dkranzSo if I see this I should go to the review and do a recheck if one hasn't been done already?17:48
jog0in this case just the patch auther looks at it17:48
jog0or you if you want17:49
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jog0but when an unclassifed faulure comes up, we need to write a logstash query for it17:49
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jog0afazekas: there isn't an easy way which is why we wrote this17:50
dkranzjog0: I see.17:50
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mtreinishafazekas: about the logging I'm not opposed to doing that, but it's not exactly straightforward and I think it's a lower priority17:51
jog0this should reduce the number or recheck no bugs, making our recheck numbers more accurate17:51
jog0allowing us to better prioritize transient gate failures17:51
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afazekasIs anybody knows why this bug moved to medium ?   can we enable the test case ?17:52
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1205344 in nova "mkfs error in test_stamp_pattern" [Medium,Confirmed]17:52
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mtreinishjog0: ^^^ you and russellb were talking about that yesterday right?17:53
jog0afazekas: yeah russell changed it  yesterday17:53
jog0you can dig through the eavesdrop for nova for the exact wording17:53
jog0how frequent was that bug17:53
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afazekasit was really frequent17:54
jog0russellb: ^17:54
mtreinishafazekas: you guys should probably take this offline (we've got ~5 min left)17:55
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mtreinishare there any other topics to bring up with what time we've got left?17:55
dkranzNot from me17:55
giulivojog0, I think it is a nice tool, you said will enable coop via gerrit not git pull requests right?17:55
giulivolooks like managing the queries is the most coop part17:56
mtreinishgiulivo: yeah that's the plan we're probably going to be making the move today17:56
clarkbat least starting the process of moving17:56
mtreinishclarkb: :)17:56
clarkbI don't want to sneak it by jeblair, fungi, and mordred and we are all pretty busy this week17:56
psedlakafazekas touched the issue that logs from parallel runs are not much useful ... could we add thread/pid numbers to log format or something like that?17:57
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clarkbpsedlak: the subunit log has that17:58
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clarkbpsedlak: I think we should probably attach the logs to the subunit for each test as they are run17:58
clarkbthis is what nova et al do17:58
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psedlakyes, i for example meant the tempest.txt ...17:58
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psedlakclarkb: what has to be done for that?17:59
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mtreinishpsedlak: another option which might be simpler would be printing the testname with each log message18:00
mtreinishbut we're out of time18:00
mtreinishpsedlak: we can pick this up on -qa18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 19 18:00:23 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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clarkbbasically in your base test case setup a log fixture to capture the logs (should be really easy 99% of the work is in the test libs)18:00
bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 19 18:00:38 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:00
bdpaynehi everyone, time for OSSG meeting18:00
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bdpaynedo we have others in attendance?18:01
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malini2hey there!18:01
bdpayneah, hyakuhei nice to see you here :-)18:02
hyakuhei:) I've missed this place18:02
bdpaynealright, let's begin18:02
bdpayne#topic Previous Action Items18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Previous Action Items (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:02
malini2elo -- greetings18:02
bdpayneWe had a few action items from last week18:02
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bdpaynemalini1 any update on the glossary?18:03
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bdpaynemalini2 ^^18:03
hyakuheiOh yes, I'm happy to review that tomorrow if it's still in review.18:03
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* bdpayne gets confused when people change user names :-)18:03
malini2sorry, not had chance to work much on it .. thus no updates to patch18:03
malini2but a little progress18:03
malini2same malini .. i must register a nickname18:04
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bdpayneno worries18:04
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bdpaynethe other action items were releated to polishing up the wiki page18:04
bdpaynethe how to contribute page18:04
bdpayneI didn't get to that this week18:04
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bdpaynebut, it remains on my todo list18:04
bdpayneAlso, I quick logo update18:05
malini2hyakuhei -- no do not review, we got help from doc folks on how to use the master glossary, now just need to update our chapters to use that18:05
hyakuheiSo I had a todo list but I burnt it18:05
hyakuheioh ok cool, is that documented somewhere nice? I'll contribute where I can18:05
bdpayneI heard back from the foundation and they have denied our request for an OSSG logo that is a derivative of the OS logo18:05
bdpayneWe can, however, use the OS logo… subject to the normal usage guidelines18:06
bdpayneSo that project has come to a conclusion.18:06
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bdpayneok, moving on...18:06
bdpayne#topic Ongoing Work18:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing Work (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:06
hyakuhei:( I guess that means we've got freedom to come up with something more creative? Just using the OpenStack logo on it's own isn't very exciting18:06
malini2bdpayne -- they decided this based on our rough draft or after we spent good money to make a fancy logo?18:07
bdpayneYes, we could certainly do a completely fresh logo18:07
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bdpayneThey decided this on the rough draft18:07
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malini2bdpayne -- a tad bit mollified18:07
bdpaynePersonally, I'm a little logo'd out, but it someone else wants to push this effort ahead with another logo design, I'm ok with that18:07
hyakuheiIt'd be nice to have _something_ for the summit18:08
hyakuheibut not massively important18:08
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bdpayneI'm ok just using the OS logo18:08
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bdpaynebut, that's just me18:08
malini2i am logo-ed out .. we can stick a little lock image on the footer of our presentations18:08
bdpaynehyakuhei I saw you did some OSSN updating today, care to provide an update here?18:09
malini2may be they felt the original logo becomes "insecure" if we have a "secure" version18:09
hyakuheiThere are no more outstanding OSSNs at the moment. Some of them weren't perfect but they'd been in a draft state for far too long18:09
hyakuheiThings I'd like: Someone who can commit to proof reading all OSSNs18:10
hyakuheiSomeone to write OSSNs when I'm not around / share the load - We should be publishing more than we are18:10
malini2hyakuhei -- I read all of yours18:10
hyakuheiI still need to go through the security guide and add the OSSN references18:10
hyakuheiThanks malini2 - the help is appreciated but I'd like to formalize the process a little18:11
bdpaynehyakuhei you looking for a committed team?18:11
hyakuheiA little more process perhaps, I'd like to not be a single point of failure18:11
hyakuheiother than that I'm looking for ways to speed it up is all18:11
malini2hyakuhei -- I will be out all of November, other than conference, will commit in Jan, I apologize.18:11
hyakuheiI'll draft something up, it'll be good fodder for the 'get involved' wiki18:12
bdpaynesounds good18:12
bdpaynealso, there's been some discussion on slides18:12
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bdpaynemalini2 care to provide an update there?18:12
malini2i just sent a few of you link to google doc18:13
hyakuheiSure, whats it in relation to? Did the panel discussion get accepted?18:13
bdpaynethis is the general slide deck for OSSG18:13
hyakuheiAaaah nice18:13
bdpaynemalini2 care to share the link here?18:14
hyakuheiI remember now. The deck is looking reasonably tidy already, Lots of tidying required and a few gaps but I like the looks of it18:14
bdpayneor would you like further review first?18:14
hyakuhei"OpenStack is made up of defensible technologes" - That again!18:15
malini2do not know how to share18:15
hyakuheibdpayne: I completely hold you responsible for that (as your boss isn't here)(18:15
hyakuheiAhaha. Ok I should read the whole slide - my reply is there.18:15
bdpayne^^ link to view the slides18:15
uvirtbotbdpayne: Error: "^" is not a valid command.18:15
elotaking a look now18:16
bdpaynesorry Mr Bot18:16
bdpayneanyway, this is worth reviewing and improving for anyone who is interested18:16
hyakuheiLooks good18:16
bdpaynethe goal here is to have a slide deck that we, as a group, keep up to date18:16
hyakuheiEdit on google docs?18:16
bdpaynethen people could talk openstack security in user groups and such more easily18:16
elolooks good18:17
bdpaynedirect edits seems fine18:17
malini2:-) thanks bdpayne!  networking etc not fleshed out .. the book is loaded with good stuff, but on the bright side I have read book cover to cover18:17
hyakuheiObviously a lot of work has gone into this already, malini2 was this mainly your effort?18:17
hyakuheiAre you ok with us all diving in and changing things?18:17
malini2yes :-) :-)18:17
eloand networking adds new services in Havana18:17
bdpaynethanks malini2!18:17
malini2cutting and pasting nice pictures from git18:18
hyakuheiSuperb work!18:18
hyakuheiDo we want crib notes for each slide?18:18
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malini2absolutely -- dig in18:18
bdpayneI think that would be nice18:18
malini2do add crib notes18:18
bdpayne#action everyone to help review / edit slides18:18
eloyes… so we all know what are the main points to highligh in each slide...18:19
hyakuheiOk cool, we'll I'll look to present this at FOSDEM, so I'll put some effort in over the next few months.18:19
bdpayneany other ongoing work that people would like to discuss?18:19
malini2i thought if we each add a slide or two, this will get done just like the book, and if you do not mind, I will edit, so it does not get too verbose18:19
bdpaynesounds reasonable18:19
bdpayne#topic Summit18:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:20
bdpayneI'd like to discuss the summit a litlte bit today18:21
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bdpayneI had thought we would know which talks were accepted by now18:21
bdpayneLooks like that may not happen until next week18:21
bdpayneIs anyone submitting a dev session topic?18:21
hyakuheiChrist. I've got _so_ many things to write!18:21
elosomeone said to me by the 23rd18:21
bdpayneelo 23rd is what I've heard as welll, for the summit talks18:22
eloI'm working on Neutron HOL with my coworker18:22
hyakuheiThe format of the summit this year is making life hard for security folks18:22
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bdpaynedesign session submissions are open
bdpayneI'd like for the OSSG to put together a google doc spreadsheet to track these18:23
hyakuheiAs in a security-related list?18:23
bdpaynelisting both summit sessions and -- more importantly -- design sessions that are security relavent18:23
bdpayneand then we should aim to get some good coverage from the group in attending the sessions we think are most important18:24
malini2good idea on spreadsheet18:24
bdpaynethere will be too many for any one person to cover18:24
bdpayneI'm happy to take the lead on putting that together18:24
hyakuheiAre you thinking that we do a roundup afterwards?18:24
bdpayne#action bdpayne to put together spreadsheet for tracking security related sessions at summit18:25
hyakuheiThis scares me:
bdpayneafter the summit, we should sync on what we heard and next steps18:25
bdpaynewe can do that here in these meetings18:25
hyakuheiSounds good18:25
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bdpaynehyakuhei yeah… there are people pushing lxc as a good (and secure?!?!) alternative to VMs18:26
bdpaynewhich is prolematic18:26
bdpayneok, that's all I have for today… anything else ?18:26
malini2yes yes, one more thing. intel has microservers .. say 8 atom servers, while they can run VMs, their best use is low power, high IO etc18:27
malini2at intel idf there was interest in them .. t hey come into the data center .. they will come into cloud and thier performance/watt may make them good bare18:28
malini2metal candidate18:28
bdpayneinteresting, though bare metal scares me18:28
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malini2sso we need to watch and guide the LXC/barenetal stuff18:28
bdpaynethere's a time and place for these solutions18:29
bdpaynebut the security implications aren't obvious to most people18:29
hyakuheiSame for Moonshot I guess18:29
bdpayneso I think our role is to help provide clarity around that18:29
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malini2the microservers came into existence for bing-like workloads ..18:30
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malini2 will send offline some specs/data so we could discuss next meeting18:30
bdpaynesounds good, thanks18:30
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bdpayneok, have a great week everyone18:30
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:31
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 19 18:31:10 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:31
openstackMinutes (text):
malini2elo -- will you call me18:31
hyakuheiwoo - no actions against me! I like it when bdpayne runs the meetings18:31
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harlowja#startmeeting state-management20:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 19 20:00:11 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'state_management'20:00
harlowjahowdy folks!20:00
melnikovhi there20:00
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kebrayI didn't do my action item.20:01
changblhey guys20:01
harlowjahi hi20:01
harlowjakebray u have been a bad boy20:01
harlowjahi caitlin56 melnikov changbl20:01
harlowjaso lets see20:01
harlowja#topic action-items-from-last-time20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "action-items-from-last-time (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:02
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harlowjaso i did some documentation updates for mine, reworking existing docs a little also20:02
harlowjahi adrian_otto20:02
harlowja#link was one of those20:02
harlowja#link was the other20:03
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harlowjai should probably continue improving those (of course)20:03
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harlowjasince without docs, nobody knows what we are doing, ha20:04
changbl+1 harlowja20:04
melnikovi did my action item, almost -- new convenient function is called, and it is under review:
harlowjathx melnikov !20:05
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changbl+1 melnikov , I put some comments there20:05
harlowjalooks like thats progressing well, will be a very nice function to make it really simple to use taskflow20:05
harlowjathx changbl20:05
changblyes, as simple as possible, please guys20:05
harlowjayes sir!20:06
harlowjakebray next week maybe u can do your action item ;)20:06
kebrayWill certainly do my best.20:07
harlowja#action kebray mess around with taskflow20:07
harlowjaso cool, lets see about any needed coordination stuffs20:08
harlowja#topic overall-effort-and-coordination20:08
*** openstack changes topic to "overall-effort-and-coordination (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:08
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harlowjaso this week i think the big things that are (hopefully) going in are melnikov run(), flow flattening, and the rework of the multi-threaded engine20:08
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harlowja(in order of mentioning)20:09
harlowjai think jessica has been chugging away on the distributed engine also20:09
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harlowjaand lets see, what else, a shout out to sandywalsh_  :-P20:10
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harlowjawe got mentioned on his blog, ha20:10
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harlowja"We have big hopes that the TaskFlow project will mature and that existing projects will start to use it. Having a common state management library will mean a central location for notification generation." :)20:10
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sandywalsh_your welcome :) ... I just watched Jessica's taskflow video ... it's very good20:10
harlowjaso thanks sandywalsh_20:10
kebrayharlowja has TaskFlow been accepted into mainline yet?20:11
kebrayif not, do you know what coordination stuff needs to happen?20:11
harlowjamainline meaning?20:11
kebrayto make that happen?20:11
harlowjamaster of what?20:11
kebrayor is it still wip20:11
harlowjamaster of oslo? master of ?20:11
kebraygerrit review acceptance20:11
kebraymaster of TaskFlwo20:11
kebrayok.. we can take that offline20:12
harlowjaTaskflow has been accepted into master of Taskflow20:12
kebraydoh.. sorry, distributed engine.20:12
kebrayhas distributed engine been accepted into TaskFlow?20:12
harlowjanot yet, still being worked on afaik20:12
kebrayLast I heard, it hadn't landed because so many TaskFlow changes were happening... it was like a moving target, and kept breaking distributed WIP.20:13
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kebrayWas wondering if there is any coordination that needs to happen... I want to make sure distributed gets in before the summit.20:13
harlowjai think it will, it should calm down i think20:13
kebrayWas wondering if others are in agreement on that, or against that.20:13
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harlowjaif jessica feels like its ready, and others do as well, then i see no problem in  getting it in20:14
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kebrayI know there was some frustration that she couldn't get it in because everything kept changing under the hood... has caused a lot of reworking.. hoping ya'll can help with that, get distributed in, then do rework that is inclusive of ensuring distributed continues to work along the way.20:15
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kebrayotherwise she'll never be able to keep up as the lone distributed developer right now.20:15
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kebrayand, if things continue to be in flux.20:15
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harlowjasure, but this is the way of how software goes, things may always be in flux20:16
harlowja*to some level*20:16
harlowjaalthough i do know that being a lone distributed developer is not sustainable, so hopefully that can change sometime20:16
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harlowjathx sandywalsh_20:17
harlowjakebray so i understand the concern, and i agree with u that it needs two get in, although the issue of 'long distributed developer' doesn't go away if its in :)20:18
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harlowjaespecially since i think distributed is actually the most complicated one :)20:18
harlowjaand has to be done really really carefully20:18
harlowja*even if celery is behind it*20:18
harlowjabut we can chat afterwards maybe about this more?20:19
harlowjasound ok kebray ?20:19
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kebraysounds good.20:20
harlowja#topic new-use-cases20:20
*** openstack changes topic to "new-use-cases (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:20
harlowjaso there was a new use-case and maybe some new ideas for cinder backend activities that caitlin56  had recently20:21
harlowjacaitlin56 do u might giving a little summary of your idea20:21
harlowja*and maybe how u think it releates to taskflow20:21
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harlowjahmmm, ok, maybe she went away20:23
harlowjaso the part of that wiki that i was wondering about was20:23
harlowja'To properly utilize Volume Driver abilities, the taskflow code will need to be able to read a list of Volume Driver attributes that document these capabilities. '20:23
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harlowjawhere attributes could be20:23
harlowjaStateless Activities:20:23
harlowjaSnapshot Replication:20:23
harlowjaso i'm working on wrapping my head around how that might affect taskflow20:24
* caitlin56 apologizes - phone call from her boss.20:24
caitlin56I can discuss the cinder backend now.20:24
harlowjathx caitlin5620:24
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caitlin56As to the capabilities: these need to cover things like whether the Cinder volume is on the same machine as Cinder or on an external machine.20:25
caitlin56The current code assumes the former, and fetches the payload, compresses it and then puts it object storage.20:25
caitlin56This is not the optimal algorithm if the volume is actually on a third machine -- you want to tell *that* machine to put it to the Object Server.20:26
caitlin56You can't write a taskflow that is smart without being able to query attributes like that.20:26
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harlowjaso this might affect the construction/runtime of the flow based on those attributes?20:27
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caitlin56So we want to keep them minimal and big.20:28
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harlowjado u think that the attributes need to be ran at runtime (while executing the flow) or before (during construction)20:28
harlowjasomething like if 'xattribute' use this flow; otherwise use that one20:28
caitlin56I'm assuming they would be static.20:29
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caitlin56You aren't going to change your method of doing snapshots on the fly.20:29
caitlin56That's probably an important thing to state, however.20:29
harlowjaya, runtime makes it alot harder :-P20:29
harlowjaahead of time, not so bad20:29
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caitlin56Incredibly hard if the backend things it can change dynamically and the taskflow assumes it is static.20:30
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caitlin56There are several storage scenarios, but what I think is best is to concentrate on backing a volume up to an object as the first, get it right, and then generalize.20:31
harlowjaso how would these attributes affect taskflow i guess is my question, if the attributes are ahead-of-time determined, then the thing that uses taskflow can look at those attributes and form a 'set' of tasks using those attributes?20:31
harlowjaor do u imagine something else there?20:31
caitlin56yes, a big outer if statement.20:31
harlowjathe way i could see it affecting taskflow is if u have something like the following20:32
caitlin56I think we can have 2 or 3 strategies, and deal with hundreds of backends.20:32
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harlowjadef volume_get_flow_for_snapshot()20:32
harlowjathis would then return a flow20:32
harlowjaand then the outter thing would analyze that returned flow for 'attributes'20:32
harlowjabut it seems like the outter if statement wouldn't need that20:33
harlowjaso would taskflow i guess be the thing responsible for just holding the attribute -> flow mapping20:33
harlowjasimialr to #link
caitlin56Well, to cite one specific example, you have storage backends with relatively low cost snapshots and those with heavy cost snapshots.20:33
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caitlin56With cheap snapshots, you do a backup by taking an anonymous snapshot, backing the snapshot up and then deleting it.20:34
caitlin56The state of the volume is not impacted by your backing it up.20:34
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caitlin56With expensive snapshots, you want to quiesce the volume (putting it in a 'backing-up' state) and copy from the volume itself.20:35
caitlin56But that's two strategies, not one strategy for each vendor.20:35
harlowjaso u thinking that taskflow could provide that attribute -> strategy layer (?)20:35
harlowjaor should that recide in cinder20:35
caitlin56The trick is to provide progress in either case.20:35
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harlowjawhich taskflow can do since its hookin in at that 'level'20:36
caitlin56It will vary. I think that one can be done with clever coding of the backup_volume method. Others will require a more outer switch.20:36
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caitlin56BTW, everything we're discussing with Cinder would apply to Manila (NFS shares for opensgtack) if that project is approved.20:37
harlowjaof course, i think it applies elsewhere also :)20:37
caitlin56Anywhere you are dealing with long running operations and differring implementation strategies.20:38
harlowjajust trying to distill i down to how it might look in taskflow :)20:38
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harlowja*it down20:38
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harlowjasure, so maybe it starts off with that attribute -> strategy object, this object can be queried given a bunch of attributes (and gives back the strategy)20:39
harlowjathen cinder can register its attributes/strategies20:39
harlowjaand tell taskflow to go execute the strategy with XYZ attributes20:39
caitlin56I'm not an expert on python style, so I'm very flexible about exact coding representation.20:40
harlowjadoes the general idea though seem to be what u are aiming for?20:40
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caitlin56Yes, plus creating some sort of abstraction that is inclusive of a normal task and something running on a server not under openstack control.20:41
caitlin56Both would report progress, but you wouldn't be able to control priorities/etc for an external "activity".20:41
caitlin56So I suppose it's a subset interface.20:41
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harlowjasure, i think #link is part of that second one20:42
harlowjaalthough priority control taskflow currently doesn't do (although its an interesting idea), ha20:42
ekarlsowhat's goin' on ?20:42
harlowjahi ekarlso20:42
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caitlin56harlowja: yes. That combines the progress reporting too.20:43
harlowjaekarlso just chatting about
caitlin56But none of us (Nexenta) are really expert at core Nova compute stuff. If we're doing things in a way that is awkward do not be afraid to tell us what would be a more normal interface.20:44
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harlowjai think it seems like an ok interface20:44
harlowjaits a generally set of useful concepts i think :)20:44
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harlowjacaitlin56 let me write up a blueprint for this in taskflow, and see if i captured it correctly20:45
harlowjasound ok?20:45
caitlin56And I think it would even take as far as having taskflow that managed failovers between hot standbys -- without requiring each vendor to code that.20:45
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caitlin56sounds good.20:45
harlowja#action harlowja writeup blueprint with distilled taskflow (work idea) for
harlowjamanaged failovers with hot standbys, hmmmm20:46
harlowjathat requires the persistence stuff though, to know where to 'pick up last'20:46
harlowjak, np, thats being polished as we speak20:47
caitlin56The strategy I favor is incremental snapshots, and cloning the volume from the most recent snapshot.20:47
caitlin56But you can also do a continuous transaction feed.20:47
caitlin56One policy - multiple implementations.20:48
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harlowjathats the openstack way :-P20:48
harlowjacool, thx caitlin56 for discussing, i'll try to see if i can write what might need to be done up :)20:49
harlowjaand pass it by u20:49
harlowja*and others*20:49
harlowja#topic open-discuss20:50
*** openstack changes topic to "open-discuss (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:50
harlowjaanything anyone wants to talk about that i missed?? :)20:50
harlowjathx changbl for helping out with some reviews20:50
changblnp harlowja20:50
melnikovwhat about some crazy ideas? #link
changblmaybe out of scope, I have one question:20:50
harlowjaoh crazy ideas, haha!20:50
harlowjai like the crazy ideas, although i want to make sure jessica doesn't hate us to much by changing that while she is still working on the big distributed engine piece20:51
changblgeneralize linear_flow to be graph_flow?20:51
harlowjachangbl i think u have the same crazy idea as melnikov :-P20:52
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changbli have one question on concurrency though20:52
changblso say I have flow1 which touches some resources, and so is flow2, and I execute them simultaneously20:52
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changblany way to guarantee flow1 and flow2 does not touch the same resources?20:53
changblby openstack?20:53
harlowjanot without
harlowja*which doesn't exist yet20:53
changblso basically there is no concurrency control yet?20:54
harlowjafile level concurrency control20:54
harlowjasome attempts at database level locking used for concurrency control20:54
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harlowjanova and cinder use a 'state' field in the DB to try to not squash themselves20:54
harlowjaand file level locks20:55
harlowjacaitlin56 i think has experience with the cinder one20:55
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harlowja*since its problematic for her i think20:55
changblok, go the DB part. still confused with the file-level one...20:55
changblcan you illustrate more file-level one?20:55
harlowjanova locks a file to make sure its simulatenously mutating a hypervisor20:55
harlowja*a vm i mean20:56
harlowja*to make sure its not simulatenously mutating a vm20:56
changblok, got it20:56
harlowjasure, its not ideal imho20:56
harlowjai was hoping for something like that above wiki, and a way for tasks to 'define' what resources they are using, and taskflow would lock them20:56
harlowjaand unlock them20:57
harlowjaand u could use different locking implemenations (up to the deployer)20:57
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changblyes, in our TROPIC paper, we built some kind of lock manager20:57
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harlowjaalthough u guys did a much more exhaustive lock analysis :-P20:57
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harlowjain openstack, if taskflow can just attempt to do resource locks, that will be a good start, ha20:58
harlowjaand tasks can declare what resources they will touch20:58
changblborrowed some ideas from DB locking20:58
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caitlin56Avoiding locks is even better, but with current DBs itmight be the only way20:58
harlowjaso full on tropic stuff is hard i think with openstack, but something in the middle might be doable20:58
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harlowjaso thats my thinking anyway changbl20:59
* harlowja i did read your guys paper :)20:59
changblthanks harlowja20:59
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harlowjaok, times up20:59
changbli think it is time20:59
harlowjajump into #openstack-state-management if u want to talk more20:59
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 19 20:59:58 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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russellb#startmeeting nova21:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 19 21:02:22 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:02
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russellbhello, everyone!21:02
russellb#topic havana-rc121:03
*** openstack changes topic to "havana-rc1 (Meeting topic: nova)"21:03
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russellbso our current release goal is producing RC121:03
russellbRC1 can be released once the havana-rc1 milestone page on launchpad has everything marked as implemented21:04
russellblet's look at blueprints first21:04
russellbthe blueprints are ones granted an exception21:04
russellbephemeral storage encryption may need to be deferred unless it can make it in by sometime tomorrow21:04
russellbbut it doesn't look like it's getting much review attention21:04
russellbany strong objections to that getting deferred if necessary?21:05
bpbAny review would be appreciated, and also on this
bpbThe ephereral link is here
russellb#help ephemeral storage encryption needs review and merging this week to make Havana21:06
russellbthe other blueprint is really for a bug21:06
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russellbit has been reviewed and right now it's on me to give feedback on the direction21:07
bpbRusselb:  That's right, and it's the higher priority21:07
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russellbi intend to get feedback posted tomorrow21:07
bpbRusselB: Thanks!21:07
russellbsure np21:07
russellbalright, on to the bug list ..21:08
russellblots on the bug list, but actually only 15 not already in progress, so it's not so bad21:08
russellbwe have more triage work to do though, 68 New bugs21:08
russellbneed to make sure there's nothing critical in there21:08
russellbany comments or questions on bugs?  or the rc process in general?21:09
driptonAre we having problems tagging bugs with keywords, or are there some keywords that need more bug triagers?21:09
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russellbdripton: less than 10 without tags right now i think21:09
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mriedem1russellb: i was kind of wondering why this was tagged rc1?
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1218593 in nova "virt drivers should raise NotImplementedError instead of pass for plug_vifs" [Low,Triaged]21:10
mriedem1i opened it, mainly for cleanup, wouldn't consider it needed for the release21:10
russellbno idea21:10
russellblet's untarget it then21:10
russellbfor reference, you can find bug triage info starting with this page:21:11
russellbso basically we need some more triage, need review all the bug fixes for targeted bugs, and fix up anything else we want to make sure gets in ...21:11
russellbi think we're on track right now21:11
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russellbI don't have much else on havana status21:12
russellbwe can discuss more in open discussion if anyone thinks of anything21:12
russellb#topic design summit21:12
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russellbjust a reminder that the site for proposing sessions is open21:12
russellb#link http://summit.openstack.org21:12
dansmithI need to add at least a session to talk about upgrades and objects21:12
dansmithI've been putting that off21:12
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russellbdansmith: i put a placeholder in for "the road to live upgrades"21:13
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dansmithoh, cool21:13
russellbdansmith: would you want to do objects separately?21:13
dansmithI was thinking maybe we should,21:13
russellbfine with me21:13
dansmithjust to talk about oslo stuff and what not21:13
russellbi wasn't expecting to lead the live upgrades one by myself or anything21:13
russellbjust getting it on the list21:13
russellbwas going to drag you and others into putting notes together for things to discuss :-)21:13
johnthetubaguyI added a XenAPI road map session, but still working out what other blueprints will need a look21:14
russellbsounds good21:14
russellbi'd also encourage everyone to comment on proposals if you have opinions, it lets you do that now21:14
johnthetubaguystuff like pcloud stuff, I guess Phil will put that up21:14
russellbcouple thoughts on sessions ... we had way more proposals than time slots last time and i expect that to be the case again21:15
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russellbwe should look for cases where the topic is not controversial and could be easily covered on the mailing list21:15
russellbthose should probably be given a lower priority21:15
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* johnthetubaguy1 sorry, IRC keeps playing up for me21:16
russellband i think it would be good to come up with a good way to let lots of people vote on sessions so it's not largely left up to the PTL to come up with the final list21:16
russellbnot sure the best way to gather that feedback yet21:16
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russellbany other design summit comments / questions?21:16
johnthetubaguy1I like the wider voting21:17
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russellb#topic open discussion21:17
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:18
russellbanything else for today?21:18
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* dansmith makes the sound of crickets21:18
russellbI'm OK with short meetings21:18
russellbwe'll probably start having much more to cover when we get back to reviewing blueprints for the next relelase roadmap21:19
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mriedem1i guess i have one thing to ask about21:19
mriedem1there is some debate in the bug report on if this is a feature or not:
mriedem1i think it smells like a feature though...21:20
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hartsocksWell… I see your first problem...21:20
russellband i'm a little confused (but this is my first look at it)21:20
mriedem1hartsocks: yeah, the language is all wrong21:21
mriedem1"seems like"21:21
russellbthey're saying a standard URI is bad and it should be freeform?  do what?21:21
driptonThat's a feature.21:21
russellbbut yeah i think it's a feature21:22
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russellband even if we weren't in a freeze, i'm not sure i agree21:22
russellbi generally think we should just be using the keystone catalog for this stuff anyway21:22
driptonIt might not be a *good* feature, but it's certainly not a bug.21:22
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mriedem1yeah, i think it's a specific use case where they don't want to be tied to what nova is using to parse the URI21:22
mriedem1dripton: right, even with a blueprint i don't see this moving...21:22
russellbwell, added a -221:23
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mriedem1russellb: dripton: thanks for the input, basically just trying to bring attention b/c i'm kind of fighting a losing battle on it21:23
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driptonWhat's the preferred way to deal with non-bug non-FFE reviews during freeze?  -1 them or just ignore them?21:24
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russellb-1 is fine21:25
russellbor get someone to -2 it so it sticks21:25
hartsocksIf I were the dev, I would prefer a −1 and a comment as to why.21:25
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russellbyeah, better than ignoring and having them just wonder :)21:25
dansmithunless the author is mriedem121:26
mriedem1"why won't he call me back?!"21:26
driptonI dropped a few -1s but it felt kind of mean since they were decent patches, just at the wrong time.  But I guess it should be on the dev to mark it WIP if it's during the freeze.21:26
mriedem1dansmith: remember, i didn't author the instance.fault monstrosity...21:26
hartsocksI've said, "This is a good patch, but −1 because…"21:26
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dansmithmriedem1: whatever, you have aliases21:27
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russellbany other topics?21:27
dansmithmriedem1: good one21:28
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russellbk, thanks everyone!21:28
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 19 21:28:24 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:28
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