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| dhellmann | who's here for the oslo meeting? | 14:00 |
| markmc | hey | 14:00 |
| mrodden | hi | 14:00 |
| markmc | dhellmann, you up for chairing? | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | sure | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | #startmeeting oslo | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Oct 11 14:00:49 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| markmc | cool | 14:00 |
| jd__ | nop, just here for fun | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 14:00 |
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| dhellmann | how about a show of hands for the record | 14:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 14:01 |
| luisg | here | 14:01 |
| mrodden | o/ | 14:01 |
| jd__ | o/ | 14:01 |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo | 14:01 |
| bpokorny | o/ | 14:01 |
| luisg | o/ | 14:01 |
| markmc | hey | 14:01 |
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| dhellmann | ok, the main topic today is the delayed translation feature in openstack.common.gettextutils | 14:02 |
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| beekneemech | \o | 14:02 |
| dhellmann | we should start with a quick summary of the original requirements | 14:02 |
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| dhellmann | who can provide that? | 14:02 |
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| mrodden | there were a few issues with the way localization worked in the projects before | 14:03 |
| mrodden | mainly that API messages and log messages were tied to the locale of the system | 14:03 |
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| mrodden | the goal was to untie them | 14:04 |
| dhellmann | ok | 14:04 |
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| mrodden | i can find the original blueprint... | 14:04 |
| dhellmann | do we need the log messages untied too, or is it just that log messages are another place we do translation? | 14:05 |
| mrodden | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/delayed-message-translation | 14:05 |
| mrodden | well there was a requirement to have english logs alongside the localized ones | 14:05 |
| mrodden | that we had internally | 14:05 |
| dhellmann | "we"? | 14:06 |
| mrodden | more for debugging and support purposes | 14:06 |
| markmc | personally, I think we should focus on properly translated REST API responses | 14:06 |
| markmc | logs in different languages seems bizarre to me | 14:06 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 14:06 |
| jd__ | +1 | 14:06 |
| mrodden | markmc: yes thats why we wanted a way to change them back to english and make them independent of the system locale | 14:07 |
| dhellmann | ok, so we need to have a way to delay translation of messages until right before they are output, and then at that point select the locale for the translation | 14:07 |
| mrodden | thats a good summary yes | 14:07 |
| markmc | well, that's one way | 14:07 |
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| markmc | the other way is that you know what language you want when you create the message | 14:07 |
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| beekneemech | Can you do that for api calls? | 14:08 |
| markmc | i.e. a lot of the logic here is about retaining _("%s" % (foo, )) so that we don't have to know the language when making the substitution | 14:08 |
| dhellmann | doesn't that push info about the locale all over the code, though? | 14:08 |
| beekneemech | You could have users with multiple locales requesting the same message. | 14:08 |
| markmc | (didn't explain that very well) | 14:08 |
| dhellmann | here's what I'd like to see: make Message a container, but *not* something that pretends to be a string. Then handle the translation explicitly at the point of output. | 14:08 |
| markmc | i.e. it's not about, at runtime, knowing what language you want _() to return | 14:08 |
| markmc | it's about allowing that language decision to be made long after _() is called | 14:09 |
| beekneemech | dhellmann: I was thinking along the same lines. | 14:09 |
| dhellmann | markmc: right, that's where I'm going, too, I think | 14:09 |
| dhellmann | so _() returns a Message, that's fine | 14:09 |
| markmc | dhellmann, I think that's overcomplicating all of this | 14:09 |
| dhellmann | markmc: oh? | 14:10 |
| markmc | I'm not sure that if we ignore the "logs in multiple languages" thing, we couldn't simplify this greatly | 14:10 |
| markmc | e.g. if the language is part of the request context, that's all over the place already | 14:10 |
| dhellmann | the other place where the % operator is used is building exception messages | 14:10 |
| markmc | yes | 14:10 |
| markmc | exceptions are probably the main way that messages end up in REST API responses | 14:10 |
| mrodden | for the most part thats true yes | 14:11 |
| beekneemech | I don't see how you do this without some sort of object returned by _ to encapsulate the original message for later translation. | 14:11 |
| markmc | beekneemech, pass the required language to _() | 14:11 |
| markmc | anyway | 14:12 |
| dhellmann | that would work, but require passing knowledge of how to get that language throughout a *lot* of code | 14:12 |
| beekneemech | All of it. :-) | 14:12 |
| markmc | just giving my "are we *sure* we're not overcomplicating this" perspective | 14:12 |
| markmc | dhellmann, it's in the request context | 14:12 |
| dhellmann | is all code that throws an exception aware of the request context? | 14:12 |
| beekneemech | ^ | 14:13 |
| markmc | if you call a function that throws exceptions and you don't pass it a context, then catch all exceptions and raise a new exception with translated message | 14:13 |
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| beekneemech | Heh, that's a whole new can of worms. | 14:13 |
| markmc | perhaps with the original message as a non-translated detail | 14:13 |
| beekneemech | Something that needs to be done anyway though. | 14:13 |
| jd__ | so the WSGI framework used could do that, catching Message and rebuilding them with the right language? | 14:13 |
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| dhellmann | jd__: right, that's what I was thinking | 14:14 |
| dhellmann | rather than making every openstack developer understand how this works | 14:14 |
| beekneemech | That's essentially where it's happening right now. | 14:14 |
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| * dims says belated o/ | 14:14 | |
| beekneemech | The delayed translation happens in wsgi.py for each project. | 14:14 |
| mrodden | except for RPC requests | 14:14 |
| beekneemech | We're translating RPC requests? | 14:14 |
| dhellmann | we have a few other requirements to consider | 14:14 |
| mrodden | well... RemoteError in Nova | 14:15 |
| mrodden | wraps other exceptions basically | 14:15 |
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| dhellmann | I'm not sure updating all of the apps and API implementations to pass a lang val to _() everywhere or translate exceptions and reraise is practical :-/ | 14:15 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure expecting every drive-by developer to get that right, either | 14:15 |
| * jd__ agrees with dhellmann | 14:15 | |
| jd__ | there's a lot of place that we'll be missed in the future with such an approach | 14:15 |
| dhellmann | that's why I like the approach of a catch-all handler at the point of output | 14:16 |
| jd__ | are there any downside to a catch-all? | 14:16 |
| beekneemech | There's a lot of code that expects a str/unicode from _ that is now getting a Message. | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | it complicates exception handling at that point a little, because not every exception is going to have a translatable message | 14:16 |
| beekneemech | That's basically what led to this discussion. | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that was the other thing I wanted to understand better | 14:17 |
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| dhellmann | what code is expecting a string-like object now? | 14:17 |
| mrodden | well, python logging kind of | 14:17 |
| mrodden | which is where we hit the issue | 14:17 |
| dhellmann | ok, we can address that in our adapter | 14:17 |
| dhellmann | was there something else? | 14:18 |
| luisg_ | just want to say the way the Message was implemented, it look and feeld very much like a string | 14:18 |
| mrodden | but i haven't run into much else than can't be tweaked to account for Messages | 14:18 |
| luisg_ | so all the places that do "An error happened": "The actual error" | 14:18 |
| luisg_ | still work and both strings are translatable | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | what would happen if we made Message.__str__ and Message.__unicode__ raise an exception? | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | explicitly | 14:18 |
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| mrodden | dhellmann: we actually talked about that here : https://etherpad.openstack.org/bug-1225099 | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | like, you can't turn these objects into a string-like thing using these methods? | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/bug-1225099 | 14:19 |
| mrodden | we = luisg, bpokorny and i | 14:19 |
| dhellmann | what conclusion did you reach? | 14:19 |
| luisg_ | i think we need to do approach 2 ilsted there ^ | 14:19 |
| mrodden | well there are options but i like the one where if we can't str() a message (since it has non-ascii bytes) then we raise the UnicodeError and let the code deal with it | 14:20 |
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| beekneemech | Well, the logging issue is a bug in the logging module IMHO. | 14:20 |
| mrodden | instead of trying to determine what the best encoding is | 14:20 |
| beekneemech | So I'd say the adapter fix addresses that to my satisfaction. | 14:20 |
| dhellmann | well, the other thing we need to do is ensure that Message is always just returning unicode values (never byte strings) | 14:20 |
| luisg_ | beekneemech: take a look at the link | 14:20 |
| luisg_ | i think they actually handled it well, they try to str() it, but if it doesn't work they defer | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | beekneemech: yeah, we should verify that python3's logger works properly in that case | 14:21 |
| luisg_ | dhellmann: yeah that is the other option | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | luisg_: but what happens when that unicode error is raised? can the caller figure it out? | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | or do we just get unicode errors in the log files and API responses? | 14:21 |
| luisg_ | dhellmann: u mean in the logger? | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | anywhere | 14:22 |
| mrodden | API responses should be using unicode already | 14:22 |
| luisg_ | it is actually not raised, the try to str() if it's not possible they leave the object alone | 14:22 |
| mrodden | i think there was a bunch of work around that in Nova anyways | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | luisg_: doesn't that introduce extra cases, then? sometimes it works and sometimes it does not, so you always have to be able to handle either | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | it seems better to be explicit | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | say that a Message instance is not a string and cannot be converted to a string without providing a locale | 14:23 |
| mrodden | if they unicode(message) that will always work | 14:23 |
| luisg_ | it actually just makes it look more like a str in that if u try to str non0-ascii it won't let u | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | so no __str__ or __unicode__, only an explicit method call | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | mrodden: it will always work, but what language will the message be in? | 14:23 |
| luisg_ | dhellmann: i think we need to at least have unicode, b/c everybody expects unicode out of _() | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | the point of Message is not just to handle the encoding, it's also to handle the translation | 14:24 |
| dhellmann | luisg_: who is everybody? | 14:24 |
| luisg_ | consumers of _() | 14:24 |
| dhellmann | I mean, who in this case is expecting a unicode object that we can't update to handle Message instances? | 14:24 |
| mrodden | i would expect unicode(message) to return it in a default locale, probably the system locale | 14:25 |
| dhellmann | what else consumes _() responses other than logging and API handlers? | 14:25 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: if you force __init__ to have a locale with default to system, you can have __str__ or __unicode__, no? | 14:25 |
| dhellmann | jd__: that's back to markmc's suggestion of passing locale to _() | 14:25 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: yay but by default you pass nothing, and the WSGI catcher rebuild them with the locale set | 14:25 |
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| dhellmann | mrodden: that's a reasonable default, but where is it useful that we could not require an explicit locale? | 14:25 |
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| beekneemech | The problem is that if you call str() on a Message that translates to un-str-able characters it fails. | 14:26 |
| beekneemech | As it should, of course. | 14:26 |
| mrodden | beekneemech: corect | 14:26 |
| luisg_ | beekneemech: +! | 14:26 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: or just set the .locale (or so) attribute of the message | 14:26 |
| luisg_ | +1 | 14:26 |
| mrodden | thats what i realized | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | the reason for disallowing implicit conversion is it avoids cases of failing to explicitly handle the translation | 14:26 |
| mrodden | right i see what dhellmann is saying... | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | so we don't have cases where sometimes the caller gets english and sometimes they get their language | 14:26 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: I don't see how avoiding implicit helps? | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | so we force *ourselves* to handle all of those cases by uncovering exceptions | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | because anything that tries to treat a Message as a str() or unicode() ends up with an exception immediately | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | rather than leaking the wrong language | 14:27 |
| mrodden | those might take awhile to flush out | 14:27 |
| luisg_ | dhellmann: r u proposing we go with option 3? | 14:27 |
| mrodden | but that would be nice to do | 14:27 |
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| dhellmann | luisg_: no, I am suggesting that both __str__ and __unicode__ should raise a RuntimeError | 14:28 |
| luisg_ | a RuntimeError for unicoding a message? | 14:28 |
| dhellmann | "you must translate Message objects explicitly before outputting them" | 14:28 |
| beekneemech | The problem I see there is we end up with special-case code all over the place for lazy vs. not-lazy translation. | 14:28 |
| dhellmann | luisg_: there are 2 concerns: encoding and language | 14:28 |
| luisg_ | still not getting why the system default is not a good one | 14:28 |
| markmc | here's a thought - if there is an error translating at runtime, can we gracefully fall back to no translation | 14:28 |
| beekneemech | Which I guess is okay. | 14:28 |
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| dhellmann | beekneemech: we're going to have that anyway, no? | 14:29 |
| markmc | i.e. the same fallback as if there is no translation available | 14:29 |
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| beekneemech | As long as we understand that means we can't go back by just switching lazy=True to lazy=False like we just did. | 14:29 |
| luisg_ | markmc: +1 | 14:29 |
| dhellmann | markmc: don't raise from __unicode__ | 14:29 |
| * markmc concerned about people hitting a public API, requesting obscure languages and tickling bugs | 14:29 | |
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| beekneemech | Which is pretty much what happened with the logging bug. :-) | 14:29 |
| mrodden | dont raise from unicode? | 14:29 |
| luisg_ | dhellmann: with a default locale Message works just like if there was not message class at all | 14:29 |
| dhellmann | beekneemech: that switch will still turn off the use of Message objects, which would make _() return unicode objects, which wouldn't need special cases | 14:30 |
| dhellmann | luisg_: isn't the point of the API requirement that there is no default locale? | 14:30 |
| luisg_ | the logging bug actually happened because we are forcing utf-8 encoding on strings that are later handled used with sys.getdefaultlocale() like other strings | 14:30 |
| luisg_ | no | 14:30 |
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| luisg_ | the point is that u can translate from the default locale to others | 14:31 |
| dhellmann | markmc: gettext handles an unsupported language, doesn't it? | 14:31 |
| dhellmann | doesn't it just return the original string? | 14:31 |
| markmc | yes | 14:31 |
| markmc | that's not the case I'm talking about | 14:31 |
| markmc | I mean e.g. | 14:31 |
| beekneemech | dhellmann: But if we're going to say you can't call str or unicode on Messages, then we need some other way to get the value out, which won't work if we turn off lazy translation and start returning unicode again. | 14:31 |
| markmc | _("%(flavour)s") % flavor | 14:31 |
| markmc | "no key 'flavour' found" | 14:31 |
| markmc | or whatever | 14:31 |
| dhellmann | beekneemech: not every string is going to be wrapped in our _() (third party libraries, esp.) so we have to handle strings as a case anyway | 14:32 |
| * jd__ ponders if it wouldn't be easier to teach english to everyone | 14:33 | |
| luisg_ | i think the first concern should be enabling that to happen for our strings (our=from opentack) | 14:33 |
| luisg_ | lol | 14:33 |
| beekneemech | Okay, so we're looking at a bunch of if isinstance Message stuff then, right? | 14:33 |
| beekneemech | jd__: +1 :-) | 14:33 |
| dhellmann | basically, yes, but in 2 general places | 14:33 |
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| dhellmann | markmc: I think I get what you're saying. That exception wouldn't be raised by our code, so the exception would have a real string in it not a Message, so the output code would just pass it along. | 14:34 |
| markmc | dhellmann, (_("%(flavour)s") % flavor) returns a Message, right? | 14:35 |
| mrodden | yeah | 14:35 |
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| markmc | dhellmann, in __unicode__(), if there's an exception, try again with the untranslated string | 14:35 |
| dhellmann | markmc: oh, yeah, sorry, was misreading the location of % | 14:35 |
| dhellmann | markmc: yes, that makes sense | 14:36 |
| mrodden | i dont follow? | 14:36 |
| dhellmann | mrodden: translation has 3 steps | 14:36 |
| mrodden | where would __unicode__() be called in that exapmle | 14:36 |
| dhellmann | first, translate the message and try to combine it with the args | 14:37 |
| dhellmann | calling unicode() on the Message returned from that expression | 14:37 |
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| mrodden | ok | 14:37 |
| dhellmann | if the first attempt fails, take the original untranslated string and combine it with the args | 14:37 |
| mrodden | we actually run the % internally in message just as a sanity check | 14:37 |
| dhellmann | if that fails, which error do we report? | 14:37 |
| mrodden | and let any KeyError raise from there | 14:38 |
| dhellmann | mrodden: yeah, the Message object still needs to support % to hold onto its arguments | 14:38 |
| mrodden | since its another developers error usually | 14:38 |
| dhellmann | mrodden: right | 14:38 |
| beekneemech | So we would throw an exception before getting to the unicode step, right? | 14:38 |
| beekneemech | During the % operation. | 14:38 |
| mrodden | correct | 14:38 |
| dhellmann | our error needs to include the untranslated message so they have some hope of finding where it came from in the code, because the traceback won't point there | 14:38 |
| dhellmann | oh, sure, that's a way to do it | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | although there is still a chance that the untranslated format string will work, but the translated one will not | 14:39 |
| mrodden | that is another concern | 14:39 |
| mrodden | yes | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | we can log that case, and then return the untranslated message | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | but if __mod__ raises when the untranslated string doesn't work, that would point right to the problem line | 14:40 |
| dhellmann | nice, beekneemech | 14:40 |
| beekneemech | That's how it works now, isn't it? | 14:40 |
| mrodden | it actually does it now | 14:40 |
| mrodden | yeah | 14:40 |
| dhellmann | even better | 14:40 |
| beekneemech | So credit to mrodden :-) | 14:40 |
| dhellmann | what changes do we need to make to Message, then? | 14:41 |
| mrodden | except we don't distinguish between translated to untranslated we just attempt the translated one | 14:41 |
| * dhellmann tips hat in mrodden's direction | 14:41 | |
| mrodden | we can fix that though | 14:41 |
| luisg_ | the problem is in the str() method | 14:41 |
| luisg_ | described in the link mrodden pasted above | 14:41 |
| beekneemech | How would you do the translated string at % time? | 14:41 |
| beekneemech | You don't know the locale yet, do you? | 14:41 |
| dhellmann | right, you can't | 14:41 |
| mrodden | we use the system locale | 14:42 |
| mrodden | if available | 14:42 |
| mrodden | that is what is returned from the original _() | 14:42 |
| dhellmann | I think we're focusing too much on making Message behave like a string. It really shouldn't need to do that. | 14:42 |
| dhellmann | it only needs to be a thing we can turn into a string | 14:43 |
| mrodden | right | 14:43 |
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| beekneemech | +1 | 14:43 |
| luisg_ | y | 14:43 |
| dhellmann | we have about 15 minutes, let's summarize the changes we want to make | 14:43 |
| luisg_ | i does not need to be basestring or unicode | 14:43 |
| dhellmann | 1. change the base class of Message to just object? | 14:43 |
| mrodden | __str__ should raise RunTime errors | 14:43 |
| luisg_ | yeah make Message str() raise like any other str() would with non-ascii | 14:44 |
| mrodden | (i think thats what we concluded) | 14:44 |
| luisg_ | that is the main change and would solve the bug | 14:44 |
| beekneemech | That makes sense to me. | 14:44 |
| dhellmann | luisg_: it should raise a RuntimeError that the operation isn't permitted, I think | 14:44 |
| luisg_ | i thought we would just raise a UnicodeError | 14:44 |
| luisg_ | that is whawt the logger is expeceting | 14:44 |
| luisg_ | or any consumer | 14:44 |
| beekneemech | Catch this sort of problem up front, rather than wait for someone to request the problem locale. | 14:44 |
| dhellmann | the logger will never get a Message object | 14:44 |
| dhellmann | that's the main change: we are NEVER going to pass a Message to code outside of OpenStack | 14:45 |
| dhellmann | we will always handle the translation at the point where a Message would have been passed, and then pass the resulting string | 14:45 |
| * beekneemech wonders how many places that will require changes. | 14:45 | |
| beekneemech | Investigating that is probably a todo from this. | 14:45 |
| mrodden | yeah | 14:45 |
| dhellmann | yes | 14:45 |
| mrodden | shoudl be easy to throw warnings for now | 14:46 |
| dhellmann | we expect it to be logging (handled already) and API | 14:46 |
| mrodden | to find the problem points | 14:46 |
| dhellmann | ok, back to the changes | 14:46 |
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| dhellmann | add an explicit translation method to Message that takes a required locale argument (maybe we have that already?) | 14:46 |
| beekneemech | It was proposed, but not merged yet. | 14:47 |
| dhellmann | no, it looks like we're sticking the locale into the message and then calling unicode | 14:47 |
| dhellmann | ok | 14:47 |
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| mrodden | we kind of do, but it needs to be fixed up | 14:47 |
| mrodden | yea | 14:47 |
| mrodden | there is a module level one we use essentially | 14:47 |
| dhellmann | can we remove the _locale attribute and locale property? | 14:47 |
| mrodden | it should probably just be a function on the object | 14:47 |
| dhellmann | mrodden: right | 14:47 |
| dhellmann | translate()? | 14:47 |
| mrodden | get_localized_message | 14:48 |
| dhellmann | ok | 14:48 |
| mrodden | is what it is now | 14:48 |
| mrodden | translate() would be a good candidate for the new one | 14:48 |
| dhellmann | do we need the data property? | 14:48 |
| mrodden | probably not any more | 14:48 |
| mrodden | unsure though | 14:49 |
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| dhellmann | I saw some recursive handling of Message in the locale setter, so that will need to move to translate() | 14:49 |
| mrodden | yep | 14:50 |
| mrodden | most of that will move to translate i'd imagin | 14:50 |
| mrodden | e | 14:50 |
| dhellmann | the methods for adding messages together can probably go, right? | 14:50 |
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| dhellmann | most of the operator methods, I guess | 14:50 |
| mrodden | that would be tricky | 14:50 |
| dhellmann | __add__, __mul__, etc. | 14:50 |
| dhellmann | because we're not going to pretend a Message is a string | 14:50 |
| mrodden | requires quite a bit of cod changes | 14:50 |
| mrodden | yeah | 14:50 |
| mrodden | code* | 14:50 |
| mrodden | assuming this is all Icehouse work we are planning ? | 14:51 |
| dhellmann | do you think we still need them? | 14:51 |
| dhellmann | mrodden: yes | 14:51 |
| mrodden | ok | 14:51 |
| luisg_ | so just trying to take a step back for a second | 14:52 |
| mrodden | we can work on migrating away from them | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | are we adding Messages and strings (or messages) anywhere? I'm not sure how those are used | 14:52 |
| luisg_ | that sounds like we want to re-design what markmc beekneemech mrodden had done at the beginning of havana | 14:52 |
| luisg_ | which we know works | 14:52 |
| luisg_ | would it be possible for us to just fix the bug | 14:52 |
| mrodden | concatenation | 14:52 |
| luisg_ | that caused all this, and try it for a little bit | 14:52 |
| markmc | (I'm in favour of re-thinking this if we think it'll get us too a better place - too much magic currently IMHO) | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | mrodden: hmm, ok, maybe we need to keep that stuff | 14:53 |
| beekneemech | It works, but it's complicated and prone to third-party bugs. | 14:53 |
| beekneemech | markmc: +1 | 14:53 |
| luisg_ | i think in the case of the logger | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | mrodden: but it may need to be updated in light of the "we are not a string" approach :-) | 14:53 |
| luisg_ | the reason why it broke was becuase we were forcing an encoding | 14:53 |
| beekneemech | I like the idea of making the delayed translation more explicit. | 14:54 |
| luisg_ | but it has worked in all other places other than that | 14:54 |
| beekneemech | luisg_: No, logging failed because it was calling str() on an object that resolves to unicode. | 14:54 |
| beekneemech | Which it shouldn't be doing. | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | luisg_: what is setting the locale of the Message objects in the API? | 14:54 |
| mrodden | dhellmann: yeah, i don't see any issues with it currently, but if we are going to not be a string-like anymore it shouldn't be around then | 14:54 |
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| luisg_ | it fialed because we let the logger str() a non-ascii | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | mrodden: ok, we can leave that for last, just in case | 14:55 |
| luisg_ | instead of reaising a unicode saying it cant be done | 14:55 |
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| mrodden | logging doesn't try any special encodings, it only knows about the default 'ascii' | 14:55 |
| luisg_ | correct | 14:55 |
| mrodden | which is why it was choking on utf8 encoded str we were giving it | 14:55 |
| luisg_ | it actually jsut uses the default, which is normally ascii | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | we're almost out of time here | 14:56 |
| luisg_ | but it does know that if that dos not work it does not encode | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | other changes: find the spot(s) in the API code where explicit translation is needed and update the way it works (or add it) | 14:56 |
| mrodden | that should be pretty easy | 14:57 |
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| mrodden | i have to catch almost everything going out that endpoint already | 14:57 |
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| dhellmann | luisg_: I hear what you're saying, but I'm just not comfortable with turning the current implementation back on. | 14:57 |
| dhellmann | something else to consider: is there any reason not to have this on all the time, once we get it working smoothly? | 14:57 |
| mrodden | it was on all the time in Nova | 14:58 |
| mrodden | even in tests | 14:58 |
| beekneemech | Yeah, the lazy value was already hard coded. | 14:58 |
| dhellmann | mrodden: we'll have to look at the pecan/wsme APIs, too, but those should be relatively easy as well | 14:58 |
| mrodden | (we actually found a bunch of localization issues with it on) | 14:58 |
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| mrodden | well i guess i did | 14:59 |
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| dhellmann | ok, good, so we can re-enable the feature with a change in oslo, then, instead of touching each project | 14:59 |
| dhellmann | anything else, before we wrap up? | 15:00 |
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| dhellmann | I should ask, who will be working on this? :-) | 15:00 |
| mrodden | good question... | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | I can put some basic details about what we agreed to today into a blueprint, but you guys know more about the implementation than I do | 15:01 |
| mrodden | it'll probably end up being our team (luis, bpokorny and myself) | 15:01 |
| dhellmann | ok, thanks | 15:02 |
| mrodden | yeah i was just thinking a blueprint woudl be the first start | 15:02 |
| mrodden | starting point | 15:02 |
| dhellmann | yes, definitely -- would you like me to do that, or do you want to handle it? | 15:02 |
| mrodden | i can take what we decided in the meeting and BP-ify it | 15:02 |
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| dhellmann | excellent, thank you again | 15:02 |
| dhellmann | ok, we're a couple of minutes over, so I think we should wait for the BP before continuing the discussion | 15:03 |
| beekneemech | +1 | 15:03 |
| dhellmann | thank you all, I appreciate everyone's help on this | 15:03 |
| markmc | thanks doug! | 15:03 |
| mrodden | thanks | 15:03 |
| luisg_ | ty | 15:03 |
| bpokorny | Thanks all | 15:03 |
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| dhellmann | #endmeeting | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:04 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Oct 11 15:04:02 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | take it easy guys | 15:04 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-10-11-14.00.html | 15:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-10-11-14.00.txt | 15:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-10-11-14.00.log.html | 15:04 |
| beekneemech | dhellmann: You too | 15:04 |
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