Wednesday, 2013-11-27

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jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 27 16:02:06 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:02
jgriffithHey everyboyd!16:02
jgriffitheverybody even16:02
parash-hallurHello everyone16:02
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jgriffithcouple things on the agenda:
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jgriffithanybody from Mirantis here to talk ACL?16:03
avishayjgriffith: that's under dec 4 ... not sure if on purpose or not16:03
jgriffithtodays the 27'th16:04
jgriffithavishay: thanks :)16:04
jgriffithOk then16:04
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jgriffith#topic update on volume mirroring design16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "update on volume mirroring design (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:04
avishayOK, so I have a new etherpad up with a new design for volume mirroring16:04
avishay(it's linked from the original)16:04
avishayBasic highlights:16:05
avishay1. it's controlled by volume types - not visible or controlled by non-admins16:05
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avishay2. we're only dealing with 1 cinder deployment - not mirroring between multiple16:05
avishayI think it's pretty simple for a first pass, and would appreciate feedback on it before I implement too much16:06
jgriffithavishay: I like it personally16:06
avishayMostly I'm unsure of which method is best for new database tables, which I'd like to hear feedback on16:06
jgriffithand I'd rather start with the simpler cases like this and build on them16:06
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thingeejgriffith: +116:07
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avishayFor example, should a second volume copy be a new DB table, or just use Volume?  And should it be controlled by extra_specs or add a new table like QoS?16:07
jgriffithavishay: I'm also open to revisiting API commands for the user to select replication schemes later but I'd rather get this simple case in first16:07
avishayjgriffith: yup that's the plan.  give the users something simple, and see what features are needed in the futures.16:07
thingeeat the summit it seemed like we were trying to solve stacks that exist on different planets. I'd rather not go down that rabbit hole16:07
jgriffiththingee: +100016:08
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avishaythingee: different planets sounds exciting, but yes :)16:08
jgriffithavishay: so backing up to the DB part16:08
bswartzavishay: so if I'm reading this right -- the backend implements the mirroring and then informs cinder where the mirror copy is?16:08
jgriffithavishay: I was thinking it should be another instance of a volume object/table16:08
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avishayjgriffith: i.e., another row in the Volume table?16:09
jgriffithavishay: correct16:09
navneet_jgriffith: +116:09
avishaybswartz: basically yes - cinder is not implementing the moving of the bits16:09
jgriffithavishay: and then either some additional columns that will be needed, OR an reference table specific for rep16:09
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avishayjgriffith: i am leaning towards that direction, and we can take advantage of admin_metadata16:10
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jgriffithavishay: which?  The FK idea?16:10
bswartzavishay: and more importantly, the decision of where to move the bits it out of cinder's control, correct? The driver decides and just tells cinder.16:10
avishayjgriffith: FK?16:10
thingeeforeign key16:11
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jungleboyjjgriffith: I don't think FKs were planned.16:11
avishaybswartz: no, the scheduler will choose two backends - each driver will report who it can talk to16:11
navneet_avishay:the information about mirrored entity is backend specific16:11
jgriffithjungleboyj: avishay what I'm saying is:16:11
avishayjgriffith: the idea of adding another row in the DB for the copy16:11
jgriffiththere's likely going to be a need for some db info specific to rep16:11
bswartzavishay: ahh, that's an important distinction16:12
jgriffithwhether those become columns to the existing volume table or a fk in the volume table to a new rep table16:12
avishayjgriffith: yes, we can either add a new table for that or stuff it in admin_metadata16:12
jgriffithhowever I may be getting ahead of things16:12
jgriffithand I know thingee was working on some ideas for persistence without having to muck in the DB16:12
avishaynot sure pros or cons16:12
jgriffithFK's are a PITA for migrations16:12
jgriffithnot a big deal, just another moving part for DuncanT to deal with in his rolling upgrades16:13
thingeeI don't want to get in a deep discussion about this - but is this consider an extension or not? I have ideas on allowing extensions to have tables and avoid adding more metadata...just curious16:13
avishayi'm thinking i should put up a patch for just the DB and get feedback on it before moving on16:13
jgriffiththingee: I believe this might be a core api function but not sure16:13
jgriffiththingee: the problem is it doesn't have to be implemented, which by def means NOT core16:14
avishaythis isn't actually in the API16:14
avishaythere is a new admin API for failover, but no user API16:14
jgriffithavishay: yeah, it's kinda of a "new" case16:14
avishayit's part of create_volume16:14
thingeeavishay: part of the rest api or not, I think it'll be important to distinguish this now16:14
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jgriffiththingee: to start with it'll be just another instantiation of volume-type16:15
jgriffithavishay: correct?16:15
thingeejust with some ideas I have in how things can actually "plugin" to cinder.16:15
thingeethat aren't part of the normal core of create, delete, detach, attach, etc16:15
avishaythingee: what do you mean by "another instantiation"?16:15
jgriffithavishay: that was me :)16:15
avishayyea sorry, mistyped :)16:15
jgriffithavishay: I meant... another use case for volume-types16:15
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* thingee is apparently louder than jgriffith 16:15
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avishaythingee: i'd be very happy to hear about them16:16
avishayespecially if it simplifies things :)16:16
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avishayjgriffith: basically the admin should make a volume type with mirroring_enabling=True and mirroring_target_rpo=60, and that's it (or do something more like QoS - up to you all)16:18
jgriffithavishay: right, that's what I was getting at16:18
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* jgriffith don't talk so good16:18
avishayjgriffith: cool16:18
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avishaythingee: what were your thoughts on plugging in?16:19
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jgriffithavishay: and a category like we did with QoS might be a good idea from the start16:19
* jgriffith hadn't thought of that16:19
avishayjgriffith: ok, i can do that16:19
thingeeavishay: lets save it for when I have something properly written. I don't think it has to delay this. I just wanted to scratch the surface of what I think is core anyways and what plugins are16:19
avishaythingee: OK, looking forward to it :)16:19
jgriffithalright... that all sounds pretty good to me16:20
jgriffithanybody else?16:20
jgriffithavishay: anything else you want to bring up on the topic?16:20
* thingee is the only one working at the office it seems so should be quiet to write something up16:20
avishayeventually i'd like to use taskflow for this as well, but i'll put up some initial versions and hope to get feedback early on16:20
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avishaythat's all i have, thanks!16:21
jgriffithavishay: thank you16:21
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thingeeavishay: so I briefly talked at the summit about my plugin ideas, and it heavily relies on taskflow in order to "inject" actions in core for manager, etc16:21
jgriffith#topic Mock RULES!!16:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Mock RULES!! (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:21
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jgriffiththingee: sorry... I cut you off16:21
avishaythingee: yep i remember - sounds cool16:21
avishayjgriffith: you cut thingee off with his own topic :P16:21
thingeeavishay: it would be great if new things coming in were ready with taskflow16:21
jgriffithI know :P16:22
jgriffithsee how I am16:22
dosaboy+1 for moving to mock16:22
* thingee is cutting himself off16:22
thingeedosaboy: +116:22
avishaythingee: yep - i plan on using taskflow before it's out of WIP status16:22
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thingeeso if you read the nova discussion, you'll see newer tests are going this direction. older tests, we'll get there16:22
eharney+1000 for mock from me... my experience has convinced me that mock works much better for most of our tests than the other methods16:22
avishayquick summary of why it's better for those of use who haven't used it?16:23
jungleboyjavishay: +116:23
thingeeI personally spent a bit of time figuring out mox. docs weren't that great IMO.16:23
avishaythough we already have +1002 for it :P16:23
eharneymost of our stubs-based tests have a bunch of holes16:23
thingeepy3 compat16:23
thingeeit's in stdlib16:23
thingeeit has awesome use of context managers16:23
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avishaythingee: do you have a good starter link?16:24
thingeeit's pretty much similar to mox, but different interface. none of this replaceall verifyall stuff16:24
dosaboyp3 compat and the fact that mox is hardly maintined these days are the main factors for switching afaict16:24
thingeedosaboy: +116:24
thingeein that patch I use patching as a context manager and decorator16:25
avishaythingee: yep i saw that.  was easy to read.16:25
thingeekinda neat I think16:25
thingeeall the docs you need
thingeefor patching specifically
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avishaythingee: thanks16:26
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jgriffithsounds good... so we want to make this a req for all new tests16:27
jgriffithanybody disagree?16:27
thingeemy proposal is to ask reviewers to start enforcing new tests in mock16:27
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jgriffiththingee: +1 from me16:27
* jgriffith knows he'll be the first to submit without doing this though :)16:27
dosaboyi think we should speicifcally create tasks to convert to mock and share them among us16:27
jungleboyjjgriffith: Have they officially made the same decision for Nova?16:27
jgriffithdosaboy: I'm down with that, but it doesn't fit in to my priority list at the moment16:28
jungleboyjJust curious.16:28
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dosaboyotherwise we end up with a hash and people will still be tempted to copy and paste the mox stuff16:28
jgriffithdosaboy: of course if that's something somebody would like to work on that would be great16:28
jgriffithdosaboy: understood16:28
dosaboyor code tests in a mox-like way16:28
dosaboybut yeah priorities ;)16:28
jgriffithjungleboyj: don't know.. and don't really care TBH :)16:28
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jungleboyjjgriffith: Fair enough.  :-)16:29
dosaboyevery project is try to do the same afaik16:29
jgriffithjungleboyj: despite popular belief Nova does not rule the world16:29
avishayi'm sure converting all the tests would uncover a ton of bugs :)16:29
jgriffithavishay: our tests do a great job of testing the test code16:29
jungleboyjdosaboy: Ok.  I heard rumors but wasn't sure.16:29
eharneydo we think it's actually possible to convert all of our mox uses to mock? (i.e. any missing capabilities?)16:30
winston-1we may start -1 new test cases not using mock16:30
winston-1start from there16:30
avishaycan we mock people who don't use mock? (sorry, had to)16:30
jungleboyjthingee: Thanks.  That makes sense.16:30
winston-1avishay: :)16:31
jungleboyjOh avishay !16:31
avishayOK sounds good to me16:31
jgriffithalrighty... any other comments on this one?16:32
jgriffithdosaboy: as far as creating a task16:32
jgriffithto convert16:32
thingeeeharney: I've spent time with both mox and mock, and they seem to have similar functionality.16:32
jgriffithI'm cool with that but time is a concern IMO16:33
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dosaboyi work with the guy who wrote mock so can (attempt to) field issues if needs be16:33
jgriffithdosaboy: that's a LOT of work16:33
eharneythingee: yeah i have a question about your example test -- will ask after the meeting16:33
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jgriffithdosaboy: do you want to do a bp?16:33
dosaboyi have not used it much myself yet though16:33
jgriffithor does anybody else have thoughts/opinions on reworking all the tests16:34
thingeealso mox and mock comparisons here
thingeeshould be useful for those getting started16:34
dosaboyjgriffith: perhaps an etherpad to start so people can joit down ideas/concerns etc16:34
jgriffithshould start by putting thingee 's links there16:35
dosaboycool i'll keep an eye on it!16:35
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winston-1maybe everyone should clean his/her own table? start from driver owners, they should convert test cases to mock by the end of I ?16:35
jgriffithwinston-1: maybe16:36
dosaboywinston-1: that's quite a tall order ;)16:36
bswartzwinston-1: -116:36
jgriffithbut when I look at our bug list I see other things I'd much rather we were working on TBH16:36
avishayjgriffith: +116:36
bswartzI'm all for using something new but changing existing stuff doesn't seem like a good idea16:36
winston-1then by the end of J. ;)16:36
thingeejgriffith: +116:37
jgriffithI say for now we just make new tests going forward convert16:37
avishayi think this should be like taskflow...use it for new stuff and gradually convert the old16:37
jgriffithsee how things go16:37
xyang1bswartz: +116:37
dosaboybswartz: it will be an issue for certifying python3 support though16:37
avishaywinston-1: definitely by L :)16:37
jgriffithand when people are doing maintenance or updating an existing test they can feel free to update16:37
winston-1avishay: personally, i'm fine with Z. :)16:37
avishaywinston-1: haha16:37
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jgriffithwinston-1: LOL16:37
thingeeif people would own certain modules and commit to doing a few test cases a week...16:38
jgriffithalright... let's start with what we have with hopes/plans to make a project wide conversion during I and J16:38
thingeeit might go faster16:38
bswartzZ is closer than you think16:38
bswartz2027 by my math16:38
winston-1so ignore my stupid idea, let's focus on new testcases first16:38
thingeejgriffith: should I add to hacking our requirement on mock new tests *when* possible?16:39
avishaywinston-1: not stupid...wish i had the time :)16:39
avishayi'd also covert stuff to taskflow if i had more cycles :)16:39
winston-1avishay: i know, me too.16:39
* thingee should do more since he doesn't have a kid yet16:40
jgriffiththingee: probably16:40
winston-1i think we may encourage new contributors who are willing to do something to put their energy on test cases.16:40
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jgriffiththingee: whoa... what?16:40
jgriffiththingee: you expecting?16:40
thingeedon't start rumors in the community16:40
jgriffithwinston-1: that's a good point16:40
jgriffiththingee: too late16:40
avishaythingee: that means you should do less - go have fun while you can!! :P16:40
thingeeoh the tabloids16:40
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jgriffiththingee: just sent a congratulations email to lists@openstack.org16:41
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jgriffiththingee: and TMZ, Enquirer, MTV NBC, Fox news etc etc16:41
winston-1thingee: reply to all already.16:41
* jungleboyj is glad this meeting is on IRC so I can hear it over my yelling children.16:41
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jgriffithalright... so we have a justification to move everything16:42
jgriffithjust need to find the time/resources to do it16:42
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jgriffithlet's see how things go the next couple weeks and try to firm up a plan16:42
thingeeok /action thingee will update hacking - reviewers will be on the watch for new tests using mock instead16:42
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winston-1thingee: +116:42
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jgriffithI think doing a BP and pointing new comers to it as Low Hanging Fruit might be a good idea16:42
thingeejgriffith: +116:42
avishaygreat way to learn the code16:43
jungleboyjMakes sense.16:43
jgriffith#topic rate-limiting16:44
*** openstack changes topic to "rate-limiting (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:44
jgriffithso the comments there are interesting16:44
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jgriffithI don't necessarily agree with everything Joe says... but he does make some valid points16:44
avishayyea this was just an FYI to DuncanT and whoever else was working on this .. i don't have much to add16:44
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* jgriffith has never been a fan of rate-limiting to begin with :)16:45
jgriffithbut I do think it has valid uses16:45
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jgriffithand if people don't care then they just don't use it AFAIC16:45
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DuncanTIt's an annoyingly hard problem to get right, and I agree the current implementation is of extremely limited use16:46
jgriffithDuncanT: you live!!!16:46
DuncanTJust about16:46
jgriffithalright, I'm not sure there's an action item here for us right now16:46
jgriffithhemnafk: had some interest here16:46
jgriffithand kmartin I believe as well16:46
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jgriffithhowever they're setting this on the backend16:47
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kmartinwe support rate limiting on the backend16:47
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avishayno action item, just learn from nova's mistakes16:47
winston-1this rate-limit is different from THE rate-limit I was doing in H, right16:48
jgriffithwinston-1: it's the hypervisor implementation of it16:48
avishaywait this is confusing16:48
kmartinwinston-1: yeah what John said16:48
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* jgriffith was completely confused16:49
jgriffithwinston-1: you're correct16:49
avishaythere is Data rate-limiting ( winston-1 in H ) , and API rate limiting ( DuncanT in I)16:49
jgriffithwinston-1: this is NOT data rate-limiting16:49
jgriffithmy fault16:49
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jgriffithavishay: +116:49
winston-1wait, Nova remove api rate-limit16:49
jgriffithwinston-1: it would appear so16:50
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DuncanTThey removed naive rate limiting, which is basically what we said in the summit... the basic implementation isn't actually a lot of use16:50
avishayso there isn't much to discuss here, just pointed out the thread so we don't fall into the same holes as nova did16:50
jgriffithavishay: thx16:50
jgriffithand sorry everyone for my confusion there16:50
jgriffith#topic metadata backup16:51
*** openstack changes topic to "metadata backup (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:51
dosaboyso just wanted to do a quick rfc on the metadata backup patch16:51
dosaboysince it has gone kinda quiet and I know it is a topic dear to everybody's heart ;)16:51
dosaboyit is targeted for I2 so just wanna make sure it does not stall16:51
dosaboyi reworked the implemetation to fit the last review16:51
jgriffithWe're all behind on reviews I think16:51
dosaboyTSM guys are happy to implement it, I think nexenta too16:51
dosaboyso I've got Ceph covered and I think DuncanT said he would do Swift16:51
jgriffithdosaboy: My personal take is "retype, metadata backup and ACL" are priorities for us to look at this week16:52
dosaboyso this was really just an "anything else?"16:52
jgriffithI know ACL isn't *ready* per say16:52
navneet_dosaboy: link plz16:52
jgriffithbut I'd like to help Anastasia get that in sooner rather than later assuming everybody else still wants it16:52
* jgriffith isn't sure16:52
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jgriffithwhich is kind of a descent topic16:53
jgriffith#review priorities16:53
jgriffith#topic review priorities16:53
*** openstack changes topic to "review priorities (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:53
jgriffithEverybody have a look at dosaboy metadata backup patch :)16:53
jgriffithand avishay 's retype patch16:54
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jgriffiththe retype loooks pretty good to me, I just need to sort through quota testing16:54
dosaboyand try to contain your excitement16:54
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dosaboyi need to write some unit tests for it16:54
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jgriffithanybody have things in flight they want to bring attention to and feel should be priority?16:54
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dosaboyoh 1 more thing16:55
avishaydosaboy: not sure why your patch doesn't show up for me here:,n,z16:55
dosaboyre the sync locking thing16:55
jgriffithalso please check
jgriffithNote that 12/05 (next week) is our due date16:55
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dosaboyQin suggested we intoduce read/write locks as well as rthe EXCL we currenty have16:55
dosaboyi think its a good idea16:56
dosaboybut not surw how best to do it16:56
dosaboyshould it be in oslo or direct in cinder?16:56
DuncanTDirect in cinder16:56
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jgriffithdosaboy: direct and if Nova and others find it useful we can move it16:56
dosaboyDuncanT: that woulkd remove the serialisation issue16:57
jgriffithpromote it16:57
DuncanTThey can move to OSLO once they've been shown to be useful, well designed and that somebody else needs tehm16:57
dosaboyok cool16:57
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jgriffithDuncanT: +116:57
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jgriffithFWIW that was supposed to be how the whole OSLO thing worked16:57
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dosaboyi'll create a new task for that so we can move 56442 along16:58
jgriffithOk... any other comments here?16:58
jgriffithI have on other quick topic if not16:58
jgriffith#topic CI gate16:58
*** openstack changes topic to "CI gate (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:58
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jgriffithSo there's a new idea we want to try16:58
jgriffithno more "recheck/reverify no bug" allowed in the gates16:58
jgriffithany failure must have a bug associated with it16:59
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dosaboy+1 (although I know it means more pain)16:59
eharneyfor both recheck and reverify?16:59
jgriffithdosaboy: it is16:59
jgriffitheharney: correct16:59
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jgriffithThe reason being that there are too many things that get missed/untracked16:59
jgriffithand there's a common behavior of just "no bug"16:59
eharneywas thinking this was only going to apply to reverify based on discussion i had seen16:59
jgriffithnot necessarily cinder folks16:59
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jgriffithbut anyway17:00
eharneysounds good though17:00
avishayi've seen cases where there really is no bug (test script didn't start for some reason), but others where people say "no bug" and a unit test failed17:00
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navneet_jgriffith: or have a general bug number for no bug?17:00
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jgriffithavishay: in those cases we should file a bug against CI17:00
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avishayjgriffith: OK will do17:00
jgriffithavishay: I ran in to that one the other day and that's what I did17:00
jgriffithI've also started tagging bugs with gate-failure17:00
dosaboyfor those who don't have it -
jgriffithwhen appropriate to help sort things a big17:00
jgriffitheharney: just doing reverify only frankly misses a good chunk of data IMO17:01
jgriffithI don't think it's that difficult to put forth a little extra effort here17:01
eharneyi will admit that it isn't always obvious whether to file a bug against ci, tempest, the project, etc.  if we're going to start filing more strange looking failure bugs, is there a recommended place to start when we don't know which is relevant?17:01
jgriffithand the data collection is very helpful17:01
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thingeethat's time17:01
jgriffitheharney: when in doubt tempest with the test name17:02
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jgriffithtestname, and link to logs17:02
jgriffiththanks everyone17:02
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:02
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 27 17:02:16 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:02
avishaybye all, thanks, happy holidays where relevant :)17:02
openstackMinutes (text):
jgriffiththingee: thnks for keeping the time17:02
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* hartsocks waves just a moment folks17:03
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hartsocks#startmeeting VMwareAPI17:03
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 27 17:03:52 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)"17:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:03
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hartsocksHi everyone. Let's do a short meeting today b/c the holiday coming up.17:04
hartsocksWho's around?17:04
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tjoneshi hartsocks17:04
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hartsocksLet's just hop through these topics #bugs #blueprint (of the week) and #opendiscussion17:06
hartsocks#topic bugs17:06
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)"17:06
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hartsocksLast week we said we would follow up on 2 bugs...17:06
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1252827 in openstack-vmwareapi-team "VMWARE: Intermittent problem with stats reporting" [Critical,In progress]17:07
hartsocksI got asked to bump this down to "High" priority in Nova.17:07
hartsocksBut this is "Critical" for us.17:07
hartsocksSo …17:07
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hartsocksVMwareAPI-Team shows it as critical.17:08
hartsocksgaryk: *awesome*17:08
hartsocksWe had a phone-based group chat on what was going on with that bug...17:08
danfloreaNice. Now we need some of that karma with reviews.17:08
hartsocksour best guess right now is that the root cause is property collectors and property filters are session specific...17:09
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tjonesthere's only one guy signed up to review.  so please add yourselves17:09
hartsocksso, we need to retry, not at the failed method level directly, but we need to reset-up the whole session or whole sequence of calls.17:09
tjoneshartsocks: not to rathole but if that were true wouldn't ALL retries fail?17:10
hartsocksRight now we're better off fixing this in a one-off.17:11
tjonesbut if this turns out to be true we better get a BP in for fixing this right :-D17:11
hartsocksI have a general strategy I would like to propose but, I'll table it for another venue.17:12
garykwe need to do analysis of the logs on the vc and esx. at the moment we are working on adding these to the report logs. that will help crystalize theories etc17:12
tjonesby "right" i mean for other cases17:12
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tjonesnot that garyk didn't do it "right" :-D17:12
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garykheh - i never do it right17:12
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hartsocksgaryk: functioning and real beats imaginary and perfect *every* time!17:13
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hartsocksOkay, so that's a biggie bug. I brought attention to with the Nova Core that we'll want their help getting it approved fast.17:14
hartsocksAlso we mentioned… *digs for link*17:14
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* hartsocks groans, lost browser tabs17:14
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1195139 in openstack-vmwareapi-team "vmware: error when using postgresql as DB" [High,In progress]17:15
hartsocksI was asked to bump this down from Critical to "high" as well.17:15
garykthat is in review and just needs to be approved17:15
hartsocksSo I've put it under VMwareAPI-Team so we can set our own priorities.17:15
garykthe docker issue for the same thing was approved17:15
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garykbut i guess that is how it goes17:16
hartsocksNice. I'll be sure to whine… er… mention it.17:16
garykwe have 2 +2's on this one and a ton of +1's….17:16
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hartsocksIn general, it is practically impossible for a nova driver to have a "Critical" bug under the new priority scheme.17:16
hartsocksI don't agree with it, but if we bump against that too much I don't expect good will.17:17
tjoneswhy has this one not merged with 2 +2?17:17
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garykjoe wanted an extra core reviewer to take a look.17:17
tjonesoh ok17:18
hartsocksThe second +2 doesn't necessarily equal "approved" BTW.17:18
hartsocksIt often can.17:18
hartsocksBut not always.17:18
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hartsocksI bumped that to "Critical" on our side.17:18
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hartsocksIt will show as High/Critical in our reports.17:19
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hartsocksAnything else or any other bugs we need to look at?17:19
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tjonesmy remote debug thing - i need to ask russellb to remove his -217:20
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danfloreaWe need to also push on reviews to get bugs merged. Is that a different topic?17:21
hartsocks#action ping russellb on to remove -217:21
garykdanflorea: agreed. we have the multi dc issue which has been in review (not really reviewed) for nearly 2 months17:21
hartsocksI've been slacking a bit on my biweekly reports… so...17:22
hartsocks#action get more reports to nova-core asking for their reviews17:22
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tjonesit's not just core - it's +1s too.  we need to get better as at doing reviews17:22
hartsocksdanflorea: I usually mail the mailing lists twice a week on Mondays and Friday in the AM on our in-flight reviews.17:22
tjonesas == at17:23
danfloreaThanks. Agree that we also need the +1's17:23
garykyeah agreed.17:23
hartsocksIf you're in this meeting you are officially part of our elite cadre of ninja reviewers.17:23
tjoneshartsocks: im going to mod your report to print the names of who needs to review so we can send that info out to gently remind people to review17:24
hartsocksI post my review - report code here:
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tjonesyes i have synced it17:24
hartsocksfor anyone interested in doing reports like these.17:25
hartsockstjones: more for the list than you ;-)17:25
hartsocksAny other buggy news?17:25
hartsocks#topic blueprints17:26
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)"17:26
hartsockslast week we said: "ogelbukh, tjones, hartsocks, (and anyone else interested) to discuss config validation"17:26
hartsocksso that hasn't happened. I'm guessing we'll follow up next week?17:26
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hartsocks#link … link btw17:27
hartsocksDoes anyone have a BP they need to discuss this week?17:27
ogelbukhI hope so17:27
garykthere are 2 currently in review17:28
garyk1. diagnostics17:28
garyk2. image aging17:28
hartsocksogelbukh: short week this week, so we'll necessarily have to push things out. sorry.17:28
garykthe former has been waiting for a while17:28
hartsocksgaryk: awesome. Links?17:28
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garykdiagnostics -
ogelbukhwe actually prepared change to oslo.config for types checks, and started designing more complicated cross-services inspections17:29
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garykcache management -
ogelbukhi'll update the etherpad and/or drop a message to ML when we have something we could discuss17:30
ogelbukhprobably next monday17:30
tjonesogelbukh: sounds good17:30
vuilvsan support :
hartsocksogelbukh: awesome. let's try and talk about that early next week before this meeting comes around again.17:31
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tjonesvuil:  is vsan ready for i-1?17:31
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tjonesgaryk: i think diags and cache are ready for i-117:31
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vuilThe implementation is mostly there, need to factor out into smaller patches.17:32
hartsockswe need to target these to a release to get any core attention.17:32
garykyup. the cache i have one outsnading item which will be ready by tomorrow (i owe vui two weeks of work :))17:32
vuilAlso need to test against a new vsphere with a bug fix that the patch would need17:32
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hartsocksokay, FYI:
vuilSeems we should get the bp review process started17:33
hartsocksI-1 is december 5th which is really really close.17:34
vuilah.. missed that. no in that case no, more an icehouse-2 thing then, given we have some internal dependencies too.17:34
hartsocksI-2 is Jan 23rd which … while not as close … is tight because of the holiday breaks in there.17:34
tjonesyeah - so for i-1 we have a handful of bugs and 2 BP we would like to get in17:35
tjonesin 1 week (with a holiday for some of us)17:35
hartsocksSo early next week our priorities should be reviews, reviews, reviews, and soliciting Core reviews once we get things in shape.17:36
garykour next holiday this side of the world is in april17:36
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hartsocksI live in cyberspace, everyday is a party.17:36
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hartsocksYeah, so a lot of us will be in and out the next two months and we should plan for that.17:37
hartsocksNext week during this meeting we can focus on the 2 BP we have for i-1 then.17:38
hartsocksThen we'll turn to vSAN.17:38
hartsocksAnd the config validation work which we're just getting started on.17:38
tjonesand hopefully config stuff17:38
danfloreaAs an overall thing to think about is moving code to Oslo. That may affect more than one BP.17:39
tjonesdanflorea: good point17:39
hartsockswe do have code that will be common for any vSphere product. There is apparently an established OpenStack way of moving project code around … I've been looking into it anyway.17:40
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hartsocksIt will be good to lay out want common elements we can move out of individual VMwareAPI related drivers into a common lib.17:41
danfloreaOk. Oslo stuff will be a project by itself. But as we start working on more BPs for IceHouse, it's something to keep in mind that your code may end up getting shifted to Oslo.17:42
hartsocksmodular and portable is the rule of the day I guess… :-)17:42
hartsocksany other BP discussion?17:43
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* hartsocks counts to 10 before switching topics17:43
hartsocks#topic opendiscussion17:43
*** openstack changes topic to "opendiscussion (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)"17:43
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hartsocksOkay. I wanted today to be a short meeting for a short week. We have a lot to pick up later. It looks like we need to focus on our reviews…17:44
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hartsocksany stray topics on anything at all we should keep in mind before next week?17:45
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tjonesany bugs needing triage today?17:46
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hartsocksWe have a few. But, I was leaving the work for another time.17:48
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1255355 in nova "VMware: Instances stuck in spawning when insufficient disk space" [Undecided,New]17:48
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1249519 in nova "VMware: deleting instance snapshot too soon leaves instance in Image Uploading state" [Undecided,Confirmed]17:48
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1243222 in nova "VMware: Detach after snapshot leaves volume in inconsistent state" [Undecided,Confirmed]17:48
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hartsocksthese are all related to disks it seems… folks working with disk related scenarios a lot lately I gather?17:49
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hartsocksokay. we know what we'll do first thing next meeting I guess.17:51
danfloreaI would mark both of those bugs as High from our point of view.17:51
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hartsocksdanflorea: presuming we can reproduce them of course…17:51
vuilperhaps the behavior when an exception is thrown is now handled different in the upper layers. I will take a look at the first one.17:51
vuilEasily produceable.17:51
danfloreaYes, of course. Assuming they are valid, etc. Not critical but stuff that should work.17:51
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vuilI will take a look at the first two.17:52
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hartsocksLooks like only one hasn't been reproduced already.17:53
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vuilI think we can mark 1243222 as a dupe of 125296717:53
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vuilUnless there is any other aspect to the problem we want to track in 124322217:54
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hartsocksdanflorea: just a reminder they (nova core) won't let us keep a "Critical" on anything we find that affects only our driver. So we have the VMwareAPI-Team sub project so we can assign our own public priorities.17:54
hartsocksvuil: looking...17:54
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hartsockshmm… okay… I don't think I understand how these are different so it looks like a dupe to me.17:55
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vuildeleting vm snapshot after nova snapshot has the side effect of restoring the volume to the correct state17:56
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hartsockslet's take that off-line.17:56
hartsocksI really did want to end this meeting early :-)17:56
vuilyou still have the power… for 4 mins17:56
hartsocks#action vuil and garyk to follow up on whether bug/1243222 and bug/1252967 are the same.17:57
hartsocksokay… 1 minute early is still early right? :-)17:57
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hartsocks#action bug triage for next week17:57
hartsocksand I'm ending the meeting on that17:58
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hartsocksWe're over in #openstack-vmware if you have anything you aren't 100% sure belongs in #openstack-nova …17:59
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 27 17:59:08 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:59
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notmynamewho's here for the swift meeting?19:00
notmynameI'd expect less people here this week19:01
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notmynamebecause of the US holiday tomorrow19:01
notmynameacoles: glad you got the tshirts :-)19:01
acolesoh yeah, arrived yesterday, nice thanks.19:02
notmynamehmm...where is everyone else?19:02
notmynameyay meetings!19:03
notmynamechmouel: portante ?19:04
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notmyname#startmeeting swift19:04
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 27 19:04:46 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"19:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'19:04
notmynamemay just be a few of us, but at least it will be logged19:04
notmynamechmouel has been working on the swift-bench separation19:05
notmynameI haven't checked on it in about a day. did the last bits land yet/19:05
torgomaticdoes that mean we can remove it from swift now?19:05
* portante slams beer mug on table, roars for another pint19:05
notmynametorgomatic: yup, that's the plan19:05
notmynameand that's the arbitrary line I'm drawing to have the swift 1.11.0 release19:06
notmynameseems like a nice separation point19:06
portanteany other fixes you want in?19:06
notmynamewe already got the db locks and the memcache fix19:07
notmynamethose were key19:07
notmynamenow that we've got early quorum in, the not-as-early quorum seems important19:07
notmynameI think that merged last night19:08
notmynameno-nagle is nice to be in19:08
portantelate last night. :)19:08
portantepun intended19:08
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notmynameso really, we have a ton of new stuff in 1.11 (including all that above plus ssync)19:08
notmynameand I'd also really like to see the swift-bench stuff finished up to psychologically unblock some python-swiftclient patches19:09
notmynameportante: torgomatic: acoles: do you have other patches you'd like to see in 1.11?19:09
notmynameportante: anything more about diskfiles?19:10
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torgomaticthe capabilities one would be nice19:10
* portante I'd like to fix unit tests, and get the is not None thing in19:10
notmynameoh yeah. it would be nice19:10
notmyname10 patch sets, no +2s19:10
notmynametorgomatic: have you looked at the last patch set since your -1?19:11
torgomaticnotmyname: no, I've been heads-down in pulling DLO out into middleware19:11
notmynameportante: hmm...I looked at that. doesn't look like I added a review19:11
torgomaticalso, it'd be nice if we got proper stack traces from within threadpool thingies; seems like there should be a way to do that19:12
notmynameoh yeah. I +2'd the compeletly broken version ;-)19:12
torgomaticsomething with sys.exc_info() or something, but I don't know how to make that work19:12
portantetorgomatic: agreed19:12
acolesnotmyname: i got some more to do on sysmeta, to incorporate what portante started on forcing middleware to start of pipeline, so probably a while longer for that19:12
notmynameacoles: ok, thanks19:12
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notmynameacoles: and you're working with otherjon on that re the account ACls?19:13
torgomaticacoles: let me know if you need any help on that; I'm going to need to do some middleware-forcing myself soon19:13
notmynameacoles: I'm looking forward to having that19:13
portanteacoles, torgomatic: also available to help19:13
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acolesnotmyname: yes been in touch with otherjon19:13
acolestorgomatic: portante: thanks, will shout if I need19:14
portantetorgomatic: I deferred to acoles on that work, did not want to hold him up, was only working on it because I did not want suggest an idea that acoles would have to go research19:14
notmynameportante: I looked at the logging patch briefly earlier this morning. looks like it's just adding the fields to the end of the existing format, right? if so, I'll review in-depth19:14
portantenotmyname: yes19:14
portanteI am going to address some comments on the coverage improvements for proxy_logging as well19:15
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notmynametorgomatic: was your comment about tracebacks a volunteer to write a patch? :-)19:16
torgomaticnotmyname: if I knew where to start, I'd be on it :)19:16
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notmynametorgomatic: ok :-)19:16
portantelogging.debug(exc_info=True) is used by python-keystoneslient/middleware/ in a few places19:17
portantethat is what generates all the Tracebacks in the devstack logs that are not attached to an exception19:17
portanteI'd like to see them stop that, but it is what it is19:17
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torgomaticyeah, I don't want two related-but-separate tracebacks though; I want one traceback that goes *through* the threadpool plumbing clear down to the error site19:18
portanteyes, but how they do it might give us some ideas on an approach19:18
torgomaticfair enough; I'll take a look19:18
torgomaticthank you19:18
portantenotmyname: I'd really like to see zaitcev's patch land19:19
notmynameheh whoops19:19
notmynamewrong channel19:19
portanteit is not a requirement, but right now we have an incomplete "backend" story for implementation19:19
notmynameI'll add these three patches (capabilities, timestamps in logging, and cleanup protection) to for 1.1119:20
notmynameand I'll make sure there are LP thingies for those that like them19:20
notmynamebigger-picture, you all saw my email about general icehouse stuff. the main goal is getting storage policies (ie multi-ring clusters) working. this is what torgomatic peluse and others are working on (some on master and some in the feature/ec branch)19:20
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torgomaticwhich is why I'm pulling SLOs and DLOs out into middleware, FWIW19:20
torgomaticin case anyone is wondering19:20
* portante whole heartedly supports that ...19:21
acolestorgomatic: figured so19:21
notmynametorgomatic: gut feeling on needing that for versioned writes too?19:21
torgomaticnotmyname: a very strong maybe ;)19:21
torgomaticI don't know enough about how the versioned writes handle things to decide19:21
notmynametorgomatic: did you add anything to launchpad about it, or do I need to?19:21
notmynametorgomatic: the code is right there!19:22
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torgomaticnotmyname: I have not touched Launchpad in a while19:22
notmynametorgomatic: ok, I'll check if it's covered in what I added for the multi-ring stuff or if soemthing new needs to be added19:22
notmynameportante: I too would like to see movement on zaitcev's patch19:22
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portantehow do we make that happen?19:23
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portanteI can beg19:24
notmynameI think we'll need a polite nagbot in -swift starting next week19:24
notmynameya, I can start asking for that, and I'll add it to the review list page in the topic19:24
portantedo you want to make it a gate for 1.11?19:25
* portante hopes19:25
* portante even begs19:25
notmynamethe dbbroker stuff? I think it would be unlikely19:25
* portante 's hopes are dashed19:25
notmynamewell, I don't know that it's realistic for getting something late next week19:25
* portante is still dashed against the rocks19:26
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notmynameportante: you should drink that next pint you asked for earlier. it will make you feel better :-)19:26
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notmynameanything else to cover about a 1.11 release or current work?19:27
notmyname1.11 first19:27
* portante slams that pint, roars weekly and slovenly for another19:27
notmynameanything else about other things?19:27
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torgomaticif anyone wants to review the DLO functests patch, that'd help me out19:28
* portante looks19:28
notmynameacoles: is your federation work still ongoning?19:28
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acolesnotmyname: yes, but i'm focussed on getting th sysmeta stuff done, and i think the DLO SLO moving to middleare will help19:28
acolestorgomatic: will review19:29
* portante has a question to gather feedback on19:29
notmynamegreat (/me is happy about that prioritization)19:29
notmynameportante: go for it19:29
portanteregarding middleware environments for logging19:29
portantewe tried, erroneously, to get the python-keystoneclient auth_token middleware to use the proxy server logger19:29
notmynamethe log_name/log_facility?19:29
portantelog_name vs. log_route, I believe19:30
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portantewhich made me wonder if we should consider making middleware use the wsgi server's logger in general19:30
portanteright now every piece of middleware can potentially have its own logger19:31
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portantebut for the admin, that is really all coming from the proxy-server19:31
portanteeach middleware can potentially report entirely different strings in the log files19:31
notmynameI can see that it makes sense to default them all to the same place19:31
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torgomaticyeah, it doesn't really seem necessary to have per-middleware logging configs IMO19:32
notmynameas long as you /could/ have it, I'd support changing it to default to use the same thing19:32
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portanteokay, I'll look into that19:32
notmynameeg perhaps you want your auth or some debug middleware logging someplace else19:32
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portanteagreed, we can't prevent that19:33
notmynameok, then I support your idea19:33
portantewe want to just make it so that middleware flows by default with the proxy-server19:33
notmyname(it's easy to agree to ideas with no code written yet)19:33
portanteor object-server19:33
notmynameanything else?19:34
portanteone last thing19:34
portanteI have been playing with changes to the proxy server to make the calls to the backends more like an RPC call19:34
notmynamerather than http?19:34
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portantenot quiet19:35
portantethe code would be written to just call a method19:35
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portantethe given implementation of that method might do HTTP, might use local pipe, or something else19:35
portantebut right now the proxy server code does not have clean line defined for that19:36
notmynameif it weren't 5 months away, I'd say that would make a fantastic summit talk19:36
notmynamemaybe even being 5 months away, it should be ;-)19:36
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portantewith torgomatic pulling out the slo stuff, it seems doable now19:36
portantehopefully I'll be able to submit a talk for the diskfile stuff and then for the proxy stuff19:37
acolesportante: with you re clean line19:37
portanteif folks have already started that kind of work, I'd be interested19:37
notmynameif I hear anything, I'll let you know19:37
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portantethat is all I have from here19:38
notmynameportante: got a one last last thing?19:38
acolesportante: kind of related, eric deliot put  a patch on gerrit to pull a bunch of the http code out of into a library19:38
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portantedo you have the id?19:38
acoles...following austin, as an alternative to his refcatoring within base.py19:38
acolesportante: give me a minute, i'm on a mobile, will have to search19:39
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portanteno rush, thanks19:40
notmynameacoles: want to drop in in -swift when you find it?19:40
notmynametorgomatic: anything else from you?19:40
acolesportante: ok19:40
torgomaticnope, I'm good19:40
notmynamegreat. portante: torgomatic: have a good Thanksgiving. acoles: happy thursday19:40
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:41
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 27 19:41:14 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:41
portanteand the same to you19:41
openstackMinutes (text):
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stevebaker#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 27 20:00:02 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:00
stevebaker#topic rollcall20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
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stevebaker(no actions from last week)20:00
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stevebakerkebray: are you about?20:01
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stevebaker#topic Adding items to the agenda20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"20:01
stevebakerplonk anything here and I'll add it20:02
shardystevebaker: Do we want to discuss v2 API, or keep it on the ML thread?20:02
stevebakershardy: ummmm, how about at the end of open discussion if there is time ;)20:02
shardystevebaker: kk ;)20:02
mspreitzgeneric agents and software config20:02
stevebakermspreitz: that is already there20:03
stevebaker#topic icehouse-1 release20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-1 release (Meeting topic: heat)"20:03
stevebakerThe 3rd is i-1 feature freeze!20:04
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shardycome round quickly!20:04
stevebakerI'll need to start getting brutal20:04
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stevebakerthere are 10 high triaged bugs, 4 with no asignee20:05
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stevebakersome of them may not be high anyway20:06
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zanebat least one of those is properly a blueprint20:06
zanebthey've all been around forever I think...20:06
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stevebakertims1: so it looks like this should be closed and 3 new blueprints created?
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shardyAnd one looks like a nova bug:20:07
tims1stevebaker: yeah20:07
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1249494 in heat "Using heat with yaml template causes SQL syntax error in nova " [High,Triaged]20:07
stevebakercool, sql injection in nova!20:07
stevebakerI can't tell if this one is complete
zanebouch, that should be marked security-sensitive20:08
stevebakerI'll mark this implemented, for better or worse
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stevebakerasalkeld: will this make i-1?
asalkeldnot much left20:10
shardyzaneb: possibly, or the reporter hasn't sync'd their nova db..20:10
zanebshardy: ah, that's more likely20:11
asalkeldfeeling horrid - I am going to lie down20:11
sdake_,enjoy asalkeld20:11
stevebakerzaneb: do you want to ask for a decorator based approach for this? Or should we continue as is for now?
zanebI don't see the decorator thing as incompatible20:12
zanebit builds on the SupportStatus class20:12
zanebi.e. the decorator is what creates the SupportStatus20:12
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zanebapparently is wasn't clear from my review that that's what I was driving at20:12
stevebakerjasond`, zaneb, shardy, where are the multi-engine reviews at?20:13
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shardystevebaker: Not sure, I need to take a proper look again20:14
stevebakerI'm scared now to touch ;)20:14
sdake_stevebaker scared in terms of breaking the code?20:15
zaneboh yeah, I think it was just about there20:15
shardysdake_: Yes, last time we merged and had to revert20:15
jasond`stevebaker: i think it's looking good, but i've thought that several times before :/20:15
sdake_must have been on the road20:15
sdake_may make more sense to bump to i2 then?20:16
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sdake_give more time for testing/review?20:16
jasond`the database patch is ready IMO20:16
stevebakersdake_: If it is ready, its ready20:16
jasond`the second patch has a small issue with the test i'm working on today20:16
jasond`and the third patch is pretty trivial20:17
zanebpro tip: after the 3rd or 4th patchset in a day I start leaving it for a day or two before I bother to review a new one ;)20:17
sdake_i reviewed several in that series and the ylooked good20:17
stevebakerThis needs another review, it might just make it in
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jasond`zaneb: i'll try to do fewer updates20:17
stevebakervijendar: do you think there will be some action on in time for i-1?20:18
vijendarstevebaker: currently I am working on it20:18
andersonvomstevebaker: we're just waiting for a review on that one and on
vijendarwill send updated patch in a day or two20:18
stevebakeranyway, blueprints look in pretty good shape, the number of targeted bugs is quite high - there is an easy way of fixing that though20:19
andersonvomstevebaker:  it seems both would be able to make it in20:19
stevebakerif you've got some spare time for bugs, then go for it20:19
stevebaker#topic Software config update20:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Software config update (Meeting topic: heat)"20:19
stevebakerI'll have a POC to post in the next few hours, it would be great if you could provide feedback on the general approach20:20
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stevebakerCurrently it just gets the metadata onto the server via os-collect-config, but nothing is consuming that data, and the format of that data will change many times as we figure out the right way20:21
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stevebakerbut right now I'm more interested in the approach taken to implementing the SoftwareConfig/SoftwareDeployment resources20:21
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lakshmiwhat is included in this metadata20:21
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stevebakerprobably not much more to say on that until the reviews are up20:21
zanebjasond`: are you running unit tests/pep8 locally before uploading? You should almost never be getting legitimate failures in the gate.20:22
stevebakerlakshmi: currently it is a mostly verbatim dump of the SoftwareDeployment/SoftwareConfig data structures20:22
shardyzaneb: Getting consistent results from the gate is always a bug ;)20:22
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stevebakerlakshmi: but it can be transformed into anything20:22
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lakshmistevebaker that is a great start for the metadata20:23
mspreitzstevebaker: do we think there should be generic agents, or should the software config agent cover it all?20:23
zanebshardy: I said *legitimate* failures ;) Neutron failures are sadly unavoidable20:23
stevebakermspreitz: I think there will be an agent per CM tool, which transforms the metadata to a CM tool invocation, and collects outputs to signal back to heat20:23
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stevebakermspreitz: how to get the agent onto the server is an open question - probably golden images or cloud-init cloud-config20:24
mspreitzI was hoping we would write one generic software config agent, it gets scpeicalized to a CM tool by a hook20:24
shardystevebaker: per CM tool?  Can't we just bootstrap the CM specific tool with os-apply-config or something?20:24
stevebakermspreitz: In that case, that is what we are doing. The agent is called os-collect-config, and there is a custom *hook* per CM tool.20:25
shardystevebaker: Or just configure cloud-init to install e.g puppet and run the tool, pointed at the metadata20:25
mspreitzone hook point and custom thing hooked in per CM tool?20:25
jasond`zaneb: i guess i have been relying on the gate a little too much (something in tox is always breaking).  will try to run the full suite before uploading20:25
tspatzierI think we will have to figure out the details when looking at least two CM tools once we see the initial POC from stevebaker20:25
andrew_plunkI don't see the point of installing all cm tools on each image, it will just take longer to bootstrap server. I would prefer one per cm tool20:26
stevebakershardy: the hook will probably be an os-refresh-config script generated with an os-apply-config template20:26
shardystevebaker: Ok cool, so not really an agent per tool then, just a config per tool20:27
mspreitzandrew_plunk: I think that's what we are talking about20:27
stevebakerandrew_plunk: you will only install the CM tool (and hook) that you want to use20:27
andrew_plunkhaha well maybe I should have just said +1 then20:27
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stevebakerany other questions?20:27
lakshmistevebaker is there any particular protocol for the CM agent to return the results to Heat?20:28
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mspreitzShould we be telling trove et al that they should not be going about creating agents to do their config?20:28
stevebakerlakshmi: first implementation will just use cfn-signal/WaitCondition style signalling20:28
zanebmspreitz: trove's agent does a lot more than config though20:29
lakshmistevebaker so the cm tool agent will signal Heat from the vm?20:29
mspreitzzaneb: more than can be done with os-collect-config?20:29
stevebakermspreitz: trove's agent talks to rabbitmq, ours does http polling. They are currently quite different but we're talking about possible collaboration20:29
stevebakerlakshmi: the cm tool, or the hook. that is still unknown20:30
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shardystevebaker: I've been looking at a native approach to waitcondition handles using trust tokens20:30
shardywhich maybe we can use later20:30
mspreitzsavanna is also talking about an agent20:30
stevebakershardy: is this different to using a trust to create the user?20:30
tspatzierstevebaker, so the signal would update the state of the SoftwareDeployment resource and provide outputs so afterwards a get_attr on the resource would work etc?20:31
shardystevebaker: yes, we can use trusts to create the ec2-keypair (which solves the admin to create stack issue)20:31
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mspreitzMurano is also talking about an agent20:31
shardybut we can also create a trust scoped token and use that directly to authenticate the response for a waitcondition20:31
stevebakermspreitz: we are already talking to them all. can we move on from this topic?20:32
shardystevebaker: It's the curl string containing token approach I mentioned in HK20:32
stevebakershardy: would that token expire?20:32
shardystevebaker: yes, but not for 24 hours, and the max wait condition time is 1220:32
andrew_plunkThe ansible approach of temporarily installing and turning on zeromq on an instance for config is interesting. They call it fireball mode.20:33
shardystevebaker: I'm thinking also create a OS::Keystone::Token resource, which creates a new token every stack update20:33
zanebshardy: doesn't that depend on the cloud?20:33
stevebakershardy: software config polling would be long-lived. I would worry about a transient outage resulting in dead-duck servers with expired tokens20:33
shardythen the agent collecting the config can refresh the token after stack update20:33
shardyzaneb: Yep, but I'm assuming the token expiry will be much greater than typical wait-condition use-cases20:34
stevebakershardy: but they can't fetch a new token if they need a non-expired token to fetch it with20:34
shardystevebaker: They can if you refresh the token much more often than it expires20:34
shardystevebaker: The alternative is to stick with trust-derived ec2-keypairs for everything20:35
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shardywhich don't expire, and we can continue to use for the AWS compatible resources20:35
stevebakershardy: but if there is an outage for the entire duration, you could still end up with servers with expired tokens after the outage is over20:35
shardybut some folks don't want ec2 keypairs, and the alternative is not ready in keystone yet20:35
shardystevebaker: Agreed, I'm only advocating this for wait conditions, not for config collection, we'll need a better solution for that20:36
stevebaker#topic Template catalog use cases20:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Template catalog use cases (Meeting topic: heat)"20:36
stevebakerI was hoping kebray would be here, or someone else from Rackspace looking at the template catalog20:37
zanebwe seem to be making good progress on the ML anyway20:37
tims1although kebray and randallburt have been running the discussion more recently20:38
tims1if the topic is to put use cases together I would expect to be more prepared for that next week20:38
stevebakerSo it would be great if there could be some formal writeup of all the use cases for a template catalog20:38
tims1I have recently been practicing writing use cases ;)20:39
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stevebakerIt could probably be a separate project, hosted in stackforge, maybe even with its own +2 team. But the design should really happen in collaboration with the heat community so that it has the greatest chance of being accepted into the OpenStack Orchestration program20:40
shardytims1: What do you mean "running the discussion"?  I've not seen much from them on the ML thread?20:41
tims1well I haven't been able to sync with them on this topic since Hong Kong20:41
tims1I have use cases that we started before the summit, they may be outdated20:42
tims1we have been discussing a possible stack forge project20:42
shardytims1: Ok, cool20:42
tims1and I agree on the design collaboration20:42
tims1They are both out the rest of this week20:42
tims1which is why the silence20:43
tims1I would also agree on a separate +2 team20:43
stevebakerok, I won't create a meeting action for randall to write all the use cases then ;)20:43
shardytims1: np, I know it's holiday time, it's good that we've got some communication going on the ML now :)20:43
tims1yes thanks shardy20:43
tims1by all means assign it to randall20:43
stevebaker#action Randall to publish use cases for heat template catalog20:44
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tims1he just sensed a disturbance in the force20:44
stevebakerhis ears are burning20:44
stevebaker#topic Open discussion20:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"20:45
stevebakershardy: so when you say v2 API, do you mean the changes required to make a management API possible?20:45
shardystevebaker: Partly, and to align with what other projects are doing wrt project/tenant id20:45
andersonvomI was under the impression that would mosty remote the tenant ID from the URL, right?20:46
shardyYup, so remove the tenant ID from the URL, and from all the request bodies, use the project_id in the context instead20:46
shardythat is the main change, but I spotted a few other cleanups we could consider20:46
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shardyAlso, if we do it, we have to decide if we go pecan/wsme, or reuse what we have20:47
stevebakershardy: regarding can you think of a way of progressing with a management api which doesn't yet require service-scoped token or request-scoping-policy? An approach which can be used with what we have now, and then move to the new keystone features as soon as they are available?20:48
shardystevebaker: Nothing which isn't a horrible hack, no20:48
shardystevebaker: You could add the management API before the tenant_id in the path I suppose, but we nacked that for build_info20:49
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shardystevebaker: the service scoped token stuff does seem to be making some progress, but I'm not sure when it will be ready20:50
zanebshardy: see, I think that could make sense for the management api20:50
stevebakershardy: same, this is not like build_info20:50
zanebshardy: it's allowed to have its own endpoint in the catalog, for starters20:50
shardyOk, then we still need an unscoped request, that could be an unscoped token, but I don't think you can have a role associated with that20:51
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zanebwould we even put management api stuff in python-heatclient? or would we create python-heat-manageclient?20:51
stevebakerzaneb: I'm pretty sure novaclient has admin commands20:52
shardyWe *could* just say anyone with a special heat_service_admin role gets super super powers to access the management-api features, but that seems wrong, if we're servicing scoped requests20:52
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andersonvomzaneb: it would make sense to add it there, since once we move to the new keystone, it would be there too, right?20:52
andersonvomzaneb: at least it would remain consistent20:53
stevebakershardy: so it sounds like there might be an interim solution which isn't too hacky? It would be nice to unblock rackspace20:53
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shardystevebaker: Yeah, we could just use rbac and a new endpoint, and short-circuit the tenant-scoping for those requests20:54
shardyMakes me slightly uneasy, but I guess it would work20:54
tims1+1 for rbac and new endpoint in the interim20:55
zanebshardy: +120:55
stevebakershardy: OK, thanks. Could you write that up to the ML?20:55
zanebwhat could go wrong? ;)20:55
andersonvomshardy: agreed20:55
andersonvomzaneb: :P20:56
shardyOk, will do, and if the keystone devs don't shoot the idea to pieces, I'll start on a patch20:56
stevebakerhey, they don't have -2 on our project ;)20:56
morganfainbergshoot something to death? I'm here to help! --keystone dev >.>20:56
* morganfainberg goes back to lurking20:57
shardymorganfainberg: haha ;)20:57
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morganfainbergstevebaker, you could give me -2 on your project just for this one case you know ;)20:57
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stevebaker3 minutes, anything else?20:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"20:58
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 27 20:58:43 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:58
openstackMinutes (text):
stevebakerthanks all20:58
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