Wednesday, 2014-02-19

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clarkbrwmjones: it doesn't work on precise with nova. Not sure if that is nova's fault, devstack's or libguestfs00:35
clarkbI suppose I can file the bug against all 3 and see what happens00:35
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loquacities#startmeeting DocTeam03:03
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 19 03:03:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'03:03
loquacitieshi everyone!03:03
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slonghi everyone!03:04
loquacities#topic Action items from the last meeting03:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:05
loquacitiesno action items from last meeting, from what i can see03:05
* loquacities goes to look at the previous meeting03:05
* slong is told03:06
slongthat she has the only item, to do the Tox HowTo.03:06
slongI did do that, asked Andreas for a review.03:06
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slongNo answer back BUT in the meantime Tox installation had difficulties with my next PC install.03:07
loquacitiesslong to update the howto with the new tools update03:07
loquacitiessorry guys, i'm really laggy03:07
Sam-I-Amloquacities: did you try caffeine?03:07
slongSo, am not sure whether to include those detailed steps, or whether to leave it to Andreas to say something.03:07
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loquacitieslol, blame the red hat network :P03:09
loquacities#topic Doc tools update - 0.6 release of openstack-doc-tools03:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Doc tools update - 0.6 release of openstack-doc-tools (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:09
slongloquacities: I'm on the same network...blame the MAC03:09
loquacitiesyeah, yeah, ok :P03:09
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slongTox=tools...anything else?03:11
brucerno-one blames the Mac03:11
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loquacitiesok, moving on03:12
loquacities#topic Style Guide for config strings going into HACKING.rst03:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Style Guide for config strings going into HACKING.rst (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:12
slongDoes anyone know what that is?03:12
Sam-I-Ami suspect andreas would03:13
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slongwho is still sleeping03:13
Sam-I-Amyeah :/03:13
loquacitiesi don't know what that is03:13
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: any clues?03:13
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loquacitiesok, np03:13
Sam-I-Ami dont know what it is either03:13
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loquacities#topic Next APAC docs meeting f2f in Brisbane03:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Next APAC docs meeting f2f in Brisbane (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:14
loquacitieswell, we're doing that now03:14
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loquacitieshi brisbane people! o/03:15
loquacitiesok, next03:15
loquacities#topic Operations Guide edits from O'Reilly, master and feature/edits branches03:15
loquacitiesi believe they're in progress, i've seen patches03:15
loquacitiesand reviewed them03:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Operations Guide edits from O'Reilly, master and feature/edits branches (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:15
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Sam-I-Ami've gone through a few cycles too03:16
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slongwhat's the end date for that?03:16
Sam-I-Ami think end of this week for this round03:16
Sam-I-Amit was last week, and i think anne pushed it out03:16
Sam-I-Amwhich was a Good Thing03:16
slongI didn't realise the edits were going through openstack, thought it was internal to O'Reilly03:17
notloquacityyeah, i heard that too03:17
loquacities#topic Proposals for OpenStack Summit due 2/14, Design Summit tracks will be set in April03:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Proposals for OpenStack Summit due 2/14, Design Summit tracks will be set in April (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:18
Sam-I-Amdo you want me to ask anne?03:18
loquacitiesi think that's over03:18
slongWill there be any doc pressies?03:18
loquacitiesanne put something in, AFAIK03:18
slongtom is still on vacation?03:19
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loquacities#topic API Docs blueprint updated:
*** openstack changes topic to "API Docs blueprint updated: (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:20
annegentleyeah I put in a proposal03:20
annegentleslong: we'll have a doc track like last time03:20
Sam-I-Amslong: tom is around, but traveling iirc03:20
slongWe're trying to get someone there, no idea if it will work.03:21
loquacitiesheya annegentle :)03:21
loquacitiesanything on the API blueprint?03:22
slonganything on API work?03:22
* annegentle lurks and tries to get kids to go to sleep!03:23
loquacities#topic Giveaways: Oxygen licenses are available, Travel Program for Summit, and Write the Docs in Budapest03:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Giveaways: Oxygen licenses are available, Travel Program for Summit, and Write the Docs in Budapest (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:23
annegentlenot really much, other than to note that Diane's not going to do the movement of all those api spec/references to the project repos03:23
martinlopesannegentle: is there perhaps a chance I could get my hands on an Oxygen license?03:24
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annegentlemartinlopes: YES!03:25
annegentlemartinlopes: pm me your email03:25
martinlopesaww yiss03:25
brucerannegentle: did you get my email some weeks ago also asking for Ox lic?03:26
brucercan't find reply...03:26
loquacities#topic Installation guide updates for Icehouse03:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Installation guide updates for Icehouse (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:26
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: updates?03:26
Sam-I-Ami split up the huge neutron source file03:27
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Sam-I-Amthanks to anne for approving it quickly... only had 2 merge issues.03:27
openstackslong: Error: "!" is not a valid command.03:27
Sam-I-Amthats the first step to cleaning up the content03:27
Sam-I-Amslong: ?03:27
slongCongrats on only 2 merge issues :)03:27
Sam-I-Amit was... "fun"03:28
slongMartin had a monster merge issue yesterday, we all had fun.03:28
annegentlebrucer: looking... sorry! Email has been a challenge lately03:28
martinlopeswe had our finest minds working on the issue.03:28
Sam-I-Amalso, the ubuntu packages for icehouse are "more fixed"03:28
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Sam-I-Amso i was able to build a basic system with nova-network03:29
Sam-I-Amhowever, horizon is hosed03:29
Sam-I-Ami e-mailed chuck short, but havent heard anything03:29
slongI haven't installed icehouse at all yet. Waiting for the next RDO package.03:29
Sam-I-Amannegentle: i think i cc'd you on those emails03:29
martinlopesa patch was commited while mine was under review, with the result that git review was unable to resolve the conflict. had to manually add the updated xml during rebase, push the change, then do another push with my new content03:29
Sam-I-Ammartinlopes: a patch was committed to a file that my patch deleted :/03:30
slongIt's those things that make us crazy!03:30
annegentleSam-I-Am: yeah I saw the chuck short ones...03:30
Sam-I-Ami dont think anyone expected the massive neutron changes03:30
annegentleSam-I-Am: it's good ubuntu's on it, they're usually the trailing :)03:31
zulSam-I-Am / annegentle: send me another email i might have missed it03:31
ddomingothe cloud admin guide's networking intro file's too big, IMHO.03:31
annegentlezul: the one I saw you had responded to :)03:31
zulannegentle:  oh never mind then :)03:31
annegentleddomingo: yeah is that the one you'd split out into a new networking guide Sam-I-Am?03:31
slongRDO has put out a couple of packages, but I hit issues. Blame the user.03:31
annegentlezul: but do you know if horizon is still hosed? Sam-I-Am may know03:32
ddomingoah good03:32
Sam-I-Amzul: i sent two out last week regarding horizon and some dependency problems03:32
zulannegentle:  could be i havent looked at it03:32
zulyeah i was sprinting last week so i might have missed them03:32
Sam-I-Amannegentle: i split the install guide's neutron source file, not the cloud admin guide.03:33
ddomingoannegentle, is the new networking guide coming out in Icehouse?03:33
annegentleSam-I-Am: yeah just thinking of the direction the subteam mentioned03:33
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Sam-I-Amzul: i sent them on feb 12th and 13th03:34
annegentleddomingo: depends on how far they get on install arch really... it wasn't planned for but the demand is high :)03:34
loquacities#topic Docs core, docs team03:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs core, docs team (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:34
loquacitiesannegentle: did you want to speak to that item?03:34
ddomingothanks annegentle03:34
annegentleloquacities: sure, basically just wanted to give a chance for people to talk about my reluctance to move to voting :)03:34
loquacitiesfor docs core?03:35
annegentleloquacities: yeah, so the -infra team uses an invite system and has stuck with 4-5 core folks03:35
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zulSam-I-Am:  ill check tomorrow03:35
annegentleloquacities: I've found their model works well for docs too03:35
loquacitieshow many core do we have?03:35
annegentleloquacities: but I can easily be swayed03:35
slongHow many do you want?03:35
loquacitiesdo we have many inactive core?03:35
Sam-I-Amzul: thanks a bunch03:35
annegentleloquacities: way more than 4-5 right now, more like 18, but not active03:36
annegentleslong: I think it's nice to rotate reviewers so we don't burn people out03:36
annegentleslong: so I don't have a number in mind other than probably smaller than we have now :)03:36
loquacitieswe probably need to clear out the chaff then03:37
annegentleslong: I also look for long-term rather than short bursts03:37
slongannegentle: makes sense03:37
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annegentleloquacities: yeah I've been taking people off who aren't active, emailing to let them know03:37
loquacitiesi don't think i hold an opinion between invite and voting, i'd be happy with either03:38
annegentleslong: loquacities: and always looking for input -- do we need more reviwers? Do we need "book owners"? Do we need project doc leads who would also be on coare?03:38
annegentlecore (can't spell!)03:38
loquacitiesthat's a much bigger conversation03:39
annegentlethe way I've done it so far is to invite people and check with current core to make sure the addition is a match03:39
slongannegentle: we had a conversation here about book owners before.03:39
annegentleloquacities: slong: yeppers03:39
slongThe way there's a tech lead for the project.03:39
slongbut, yes, very big convo.03:39
loquacitiesi wonder if having book owners would create fiefdoms03:39
slongBack to the invite, isn't it based anyway on how much people have done?03:39
loquacitiesand then you end up with style/convention conflict between books/projects03:39
annegentleslong: totally03:40
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slongannegentle: so, to that, am fine with invite, shows what people have been doing. I'd have no idea if had to vote.03:40
annegentleslong: cool03:40
ddomingoon a related note, are there no rules/responsibilities for staying core? as in, "to stay core, you have to approve/deny X number of patches within Y time" (RE: keeping a more updated list of core members)03:41
loquacitiesddomingo: not specifically, but generally, yes03:42
Sam-I-Amannegentle: i think we need more contributors :/03:42
ddomingoi mean an automated process, so we don't have to manually review each core member every period03:42
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: +103:43
annegentleddomingo: not that I know of (not for docs for sure, also not sure if any project's doing that)03:43
annegentleSam-I-Am: agreed03:43
brucerddomingo votes to write a script :-003:43
loquacitiesnot that i've heard of03:43
Sam-I-Amthere's just so much to do03:43
slongannegentle: get andreas to write a vote-stats tool :)03:43
Sam-I-Amsomeone earlier pinged me about the training guides03:43
loquacitiesok, i might do this ...03:44
loquacities#topic Open discussion03:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"03:44
annegentleheh loquacities :)03:44
ddomingowhat about if gerrit automatically nominates someone for Core once he/she has merged X number of patches? or something.03:44
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loquacitiesthat could be dangerous ...03:44
slongbut nominating isn't giving03:45
ddomingo^ true03:45
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annegentleddomingo: have you seen -- that's helpful03:45
loquacitiesa private email to core once someone hits X merged patches could work03:45
annegentleddomingo: and each project has stats like that03:46
annegentleloquacities: ddomingo: yeah interesting03:46
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Sam-I-Amannegentle: heh, the usual suspects are in there.03:46
annegentleSam-I-Am: yeah we do have new contributors, but just a few (and they're gems really). I'm not too worried about microcosmic numbers as the year over year trends are encouraging.03:48
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annegentleI'm not discouraged at all by our contributor numbers, they are trending up and high quality which is best :)03:48
slongyes, very nice.03:49
Sam-I-Amhow is quality measured?03:49
loquacitiesobjectively ;)03:49
ddomingoSam-I-Am, i would think that if a patch is merged, then it meets upstream standard.03:49
loquacitiesyeah, merged patches is a reasonable metric03:49
slongannegentle: just wanted to let you know that we'd thought here that 'reviewing' was an activity left until we had a bit under the belt.03:50
slongHave been disabused of this notion, and will start reviewing more.03:50
annegentleslong: that's good to know.03:50
slongAll of us...03:50
annegentleslong: yeah that's not my intent at all, but perception is reality so let's give that boost :)03:51
Sam-I-Ami have trouble keeping up with the different things.03:51
annegentleslong: honestly I wish more openstack community members would feel confident enough to review docs... had a similar conversation with Rackers too.03:51
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Sam-I-Ampatching seems to come first, then reviewing... and lately i'm forgetting to take a look at new bugs03:51
slongannegentle: yes, it just wasn't talked about when I first started, so assumed (silly me).03:52
annegentleSam-I-Am: oh me too, dangit. Need to triage those doc bugs, I've relied on Tom forever.03:52
Sam-I-Amannegentle: in my case, a lot of the patches i see involve either a) languages i'm not familiar with b) concepts/projects i'm not familiar with03:52
annegentlehe was so darn quick at it03:52
Sam-I-Amdid he just stop?03:53
annegentleSam-I-Am: yeah apparently drowning in projects after coming back from holiday03:53
ddomingothe slack seems to have been picked up, i see a reasonable turnaround on my patches still03:53
loquacitiesok, i think we can probably call it a meeting ...03:54
annegentleI'm going to a Trove meetup tomorrow afternoon, they have a tech writer attending remotely, Laurel Michaels03:54
Sam-I-Amthis all goes back to "need more bodies" ... particularly bodies who live and breathe this stuff.03:54
annegentle(Trove is Database as a service)03:54
annegentleSam-I-Am: and write and stuff :)03:54
loquacitiesok, any other comments ... ?03:54
Sam-I-Ami'm good. productive meeting.03:55
loquacitiesawesome :)03:55
loquacitiesthanks everyone03:55
annegentlenope! Thanks y'all!03:55
Sam-I-Ami'm more awake at 8pm than 7am03:55
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 19 03:55:15 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)03:55
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rwmjonesclarkb: I'd need to have more information about why it doesn't work.  Can you run libguestfs-test-tool on the host and mail us the results (
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andreafafazekas, dkranz: if you have time for a review today, the next part of the multi-auth bp is available here: - it's a relatively small patch this time11:33
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johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI15:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 19 15:00:40 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:00
johnthetubaguyhello, how is around this week?15:00
matelI am here for a short time.15:01
leifzI am around.15:01
BobBallI am also here15:01
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johnthetubaguyOk, so lets jump to matel15:01
johnthetubaguy#topic XenServer CI15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "XenServer CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:01
johnthetubaguymatel BobBall : tell me good news :D15:02
johnthetubaguy… and any bad news15:02
BobBallThat's the good news15:02
matelOkay, I guess I'll do it with Bob.15:02
BobBall#link is the bad news15:02
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matelSo We are commenting on successful runs15:02
BobBall{'Collected': 31, 'Finished': 142, 'Running': 14, 'Queued': 62} are the current queue stats15:03
BobBalldifference between "Collected" and "finished" is that collected has got the results, and finished has posted them15:03
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johnthetubaguyOK, cool, are we getting complete within the correct timeframe?15:03
BobBallwe are not posting about failures ATM15:03
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BobBallIt's complete now.15:03
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johnthetubaguyBobBall: totally makes sense right now15:03
BobBallI can post failures now if we want15:03
johnthetubaguywell, do we know what they are yet?15:04
BobBallbut I personally want verification of most of the failures before I turn on auto failure posting15:04
BobBallThat was the bad news15:04
BobBallThose are the 30 failures15:04
BobBallsome are real (e.g. 7353915:04
BobBallsome are not real15:04
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BobBallBUT all that we've looked at so far have corresponding defects in the gate15:04
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johnthetubaguyah, OK15:05
johnthetubaguyI guess it would be good to see that jenkins signature match15:05
BobBallI do not know yet whether we are suffering a higher hit rate of those defects - and if we are whether they are related to the environment15:05
leifzWas wondering if this was just current stability ranking.  Is that what you are saying Bob?15:05
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BobBallsorry leifz ? not sure I understand?15:05
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johnthetubaguy{'': 14, 'Failed': 30, None: 62, 'Passed': 139, 'Aborted: Unknown': 4}15:05
leifzIs the failure rate in line with current gate failure rate.15:05
johnthetubaguyis what bob posted15:06
BobBallah yes - I don't know leifz15:06
johnthetubaguyoh, its usually under a few percent, good question though15:06
BobBallI asked yesterday what the current rate was but didn't get an answer and haven't saked again / chased15:06
BobBallThere are other issues we've been fixing in the last couple of days to get the stability of the system fixed15:06
johnthetubaguyDo we think its just code issues at this point?15:07
BobBalleverything is just code john :)15:07
BobBallWe're certainly at the point where we should be trying to track down the failures that I've listed in that page15:07
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BobBallWe seem to be hitting test_basic_scenario frequently15:08
leifzLOL stepped into that one.  How close do we need to be to be non-voting reporting?15:08
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johnthetubaguyI would rather we don't report crud, people just assume the thing is broken then15:08
BobBalland while it's an acknowledged gate bug I suspect we're hitting it more, possibly because of slower volume provisioning or something15:08
johnthetubaguyOK, so, can we look at getting the gate bug patterns tested against a fail run?15:09
johnthetubaguysee if we hit a gate bug signature, etc15:09
BobBallI'm not giong to look at automating that now15:09
BobBallthat's a nice-to-have15:09
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BobBallManual inspection of the tests for why they are failing is what we should do to get the rates up15:09
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johnthetubaguysure, for now it makes sense15:10
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johnthetubaguyso do we have a public source for this data you are generating?15:10
BobBallAnyway - I'd be happy to argue that we've satisfied what's needed for I-315:10
BobBallAll passed tests get voted on15:10
BobBallall logs are public15:10
BobBallbut these lists are not public, no15:11
johnthetubaguyOK, one more request...15:11
BobBallWe could easily create a cronjob to post them somewhere if you want the latest details15:11
johnthetubaguycan we just report the errors as "hmm, we found a problem, we are checking it out"15:11
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johnthetubaguyuntil we have more confedence?15:11
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johnthetubaguyBobBall: cron job of stats would be idea, just so people can check the queue length / status15:12
BobBallWe can do that, but I think the current volume means that we will not be able to check out + post on each test - I suspect "we're checking it out" could be seen as a suggestion that they will get another update.15:12
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BobBallAn alternative would be to automatically requeue failed jobs once or twice15:12
BobBallbut that'll take ages to report on failures15:12
johnthetubaguyOK, I recon, "hmm, we found a bug, we are rechecking"15:13
BobBallPerhaps the first failure we comment on it then say we'll requeue and re-test.15:13
johnthetubaguy"hmm, we still found a bug, we will look into this for you soon"15:13
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BobBallNo - not the second one - that doesn't scale15:13
BobBallthe patch submitter must be the one who looks into any failures15:13
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johnthetubaguywell, I don't mind us not looking into any of those right now15:13
BobBallon a patch-by-patch basis15:13
matelIdon't think, we are offering any kind of service like "look into this for you soon"15:13
BobBallwe can look into more common failures15:13
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johnthetubaguyso the issue is, if we don't have the gate bot to tell us about errors, then we can't ask the patch submitter to do it yet15:14
BobBallOne thing that I would like to add is "Patch failed tests XYZ" which should be easy to grep15:14
BobBalland if we get that info - even if it's just internal - then we can easily group failures.15:14
johnthetubaguySo the big think I would love is just warn people we are still testing the system, and we found an error, just it might not be an error15:15
BobBallI don't understand that sentence john? ^^15:15
leifzDumb question: do we run current trunk (no patches) on any period?15:15
matelI think, instead of throwing in ideas, we would need to really ask, what needs to be done to protect XenAPI's place in the trunk.15:15
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johnthetubaguyleifz: who is we?15:15
BobBallNo leifz, not currently15:15
BobBallbut patches continue to pass15:15
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BobBallif all patches start to fail then it'll be a trunk thing15:15
johnthetubaguyBobBall: let me try again15:15
leifzAny of the reporting tests.15:15
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johnthetubaguySo the big thing I would love is:  warn people we are still testing the system, but still tell them we found an error, just it might not be an error, it could the test system that is a bit funny15:16
BobBall15:14 < johnthetubaguy> so the issue is, if we don't have the gate bot to tell us about errors, then we can't ask the patch submitter to do it yet15:16
BobBallThat sentence15:16
leifzI agree with matel on ^^15:16
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johnthetubaguyoh I see15:17
BobBallAgreed with matel too - just didn't see his msg.  Sorry matel.15:17
johnthetubaguyBobBall: its the stuff that tells you which bug you hit15:17
BobBallATM we need to be focused on the minimum.15:17
BobBalle-r makes people lazy15:17
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BobBallIt's not unreasonable to expect people to look at logs without e-r.15:17
matelIt's OK, and I think it's fun to spend time with CI systems, but we really have to align our efforts with the requirements.15:17
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johnthetubaguyright, I am about setting expectations15:18
johnthetubaguywe need to report errors15:18
BobBalle-r doesn't comment on any other third party systems does it?15:18
johnthetubaguybut I would rather we told people we are not sure about them15:18
johnthetubaguyuntil the point where we are more sure it is an error15:18
johnthetubaguyhang on, let me re-read the wiki page15:18
BobBallWhere does other third party system do that?15:18
BobBall#link for others15:19
johnthetubaguythats not the Nova one15:19
johnthetubaguySo, to meet #1 you need to report errors15:20
johnthetubaguyfor #2 we need a cron job to show the status of our queue15:20
BobBallFine - so we can do all of that now.15:20
BobBallI'No we don't15:20
BobBallCron job is extra15:20
BobBallIf it does it then that satisfies the requirement.15:20
BobBallBut I agree that we should have a cron job so you at RAX can monitor the queue too.15:21
johnthetubaguyso, lets go through those requirements, just to check15:21
matel     The job need not be voting, but must be informational so that cores have an increased level of confidence in the patch15:21
matel    Results should come no later than four hours after patch submission at peak load15:21
matel    Tests should include a full run of Tempest at a minimum, but may include other tests as appropriate15:21
matel    Results should be accessible to the world and include log files archived for at least six months15:21
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matel    The tempest configuration being used must be published15:21
johnthetubaguyif we don't reports errors, we don't meet #1 right?15:21
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BobBallI can turn on reporting of errors immediately15:22
johnthetubaguyhow can we prove #2 without some kind of heath of queue status page?15:22
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BobBallby looking at the times we reported on the patch.15:22
johnthetubaguyBobBall: that sounds good, just can we make a note saying we are not sure yet?15:22
BobBallit's very obvious from the patch whether we met the 4 hour or not.15:22
johnthetubaguyBobBall: thats a bit nuts though15:22
johnthetubaguydo we publish our localrc config and list of tempest skips (assuming there are none?)15:23
BobBallWe publish the same logs collected by the gate.15:23
johnthetubaguythats not what they mean15:23
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johnthetubaguydo we have our localrc and list of tempest tests anywhere?15:23
BobBallYes - check that URL I just posted.15:24
johnthetubaguyoh, hang on15:24
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johnthetubaguyI am blind15:24
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johnthetubaguyOk, we just need a wiki page describing how we meet all those points15:24
johnthetubaguythen we can remove that dodgy log message15:24
johnthetubaguythen we are good15:25
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johnthetubaguyBefore the nova meeting tomorrow would be awesome15:25
johnthetubaguyBobBall matel: life savers by the way, this is awesome stuff15:25
BobBallThe thing that we really need is help looking into the failures15:25
BobBallI don't want to say "We're not sure about the failures"15:25
johnthetubaguy#help need help to look into the failures15:26
johnthetubaguyBobBall: but its true right? we are not sure?15:26
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johnthetubaguyI would rather say we are not sure for a few weeks while we prove the stability, so people don't just ignore the xenapi test results15:26
BobBallI'm saying I don't know if the failures are more likely in XenAPI15:26
BobBallthey are all failures15:26
BobBallbut just like every gate failure isn't related to the patch, the same is true of XenAPI failures here.15:26
BobBallGate doesn't say "might not be your fault"15:27
johnthetubaguyright, but its not new15:27
BobBallnor do other CI's that I've seen?15:27
johnthetubaguyI just want to be sure they are not new false positives15:27
johnthetubaguyanyways, go with what you think is best15:27
BobBallPerhaps if I phrased it differently....15:28
BobBallEvery failure that we have should correspond to a bug in launchpad - and one that should be fixed.15:28
BobBallI don't know if we are hitting more bugs or bugs more often than KVM or A.N.Other driver15:28
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BobBallbut they are all real15:28
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johnthetubaguyI don't disagree with you, I just don't want people to start ignoring the XenAPI tests15:29
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BobBallWhich they will if we put a comment saying "Might not be you"15:29
johnthetubaguyright, my hope is we prove the system, then remove that phrase15:29
BobBallPeople who get used to the phrase will not notice when it's gone15:30
johnthetubaguywhen we have more confidence that its gate bugs, probably via using the gate bug signature thingy15:30
matelOkay, I need to go, sorry.15:30
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BobBallThanks matel15:30
johnthetubaguynow worries, top work15:30
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BobBallHave fun with people poking in your mouth.15:30
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BobBallI've asked Ant for an increase in our quota15:32
johnthetubaguyOK, so help with the failures, I would love to jump on that asap15:32
johnthetubaguyOh, cool, he is the right guy for that, makes sense15:32
BobBallwe're currently restricted to 128GB RAM which, at 8GB instances, is 15 total (it's just under 128G I think)15:32
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BobBallI know that we've got a giant queue at the moment, but I've been keen to re-process jobs that failed15:32
BobBallso I'm a long way from hitting the 4 hour rate15:32
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BobBallwith 50% more or double the VMs we'll get back very quickly.15:33
johnthetubaguyright, totally makes sense15:33
BobBalland I think that while we're catching up ATM we won't cope with 15 VMs under peak load15:33
johnthetubaguycertainly will not, we should increase that for you15:33
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johnthetubaguyare we spreading across regions yet?15:34
johnthetubaguythat might help a little15:34
BobBallNo - but we've had that at one point15:34
BobBallit's easy to do and I've suggested as much to Ant15:34
BobBallcurrently all in IAD15:34
johnthetubaguyI think your quota is per region, but I could be wrong15:34
BobBallbut we've also had it working with DFW15:34
johnthetubaguyLON is the other good choice15:34
BobBallOh? in which case I might have misunderstood15:34
BobBallI'll try setting up multi-region as another job for me15:34
BobBallthat might resolve our quota issue today15:35
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BobBallCan I access LON in the same way?15:35
BobBallI know it's separate from the web interface...15:35
johnthetubaguyoh, different account still, bummer, maybe ask for one of those from Ant too15:35
BobBallWhere are performance flavors currently?15:35
johnthetubaguyI would do IAD, DFW, ORD as a starting point anyway15:36
johnthetubaguymost places now15:36
BobBallOK - I'll add ORD too.15:36
johnthetubaguynot HKG and SYD15:36
BobBallIf it's per-region then adding DFW and ORD would more than make up for the issues15:36
johnthetubaguyits worth a whirl, I think it is per region, but I could be wrong15:36
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BobBallSo - tasks so far...15:37
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BobBallBob: Cron job, post -ve comments, multi-region15:37
johnthetubaguyyep, that sounds good15:38
antonymBobBall: you should have gotten the quota increase btw15:38
BobBallJohn: Investigate some of the failures from to match against bugs / or ideally propose fixes to reduce failure rate15:38
BobBallperfect! thanks ant!15:38
BobBallI'll try to go multi-region first15:38
antonymthink i shot a mail over yesterday15:38
BobBallsince that'll be lighter on you15:38
antonymif they only did it in one region, let me know and i'll get it set for the others15:38
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BobBallsorry - I may have missed it with the fun we've been having15:38
johnthetubaguyyeah, more independent failures too, when we do a deploy, etc15:38
antonymno problem :)15:38
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johnthetubaguyBob: write up wiki page with links to tempest config, etc15:39
johnthetubaguyadd wiki page into:15:39
BobBallFailed deploys show up as "Aborted" :)15:39
BobBallGood point.15:39
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johnthetubaguythe above wiki15:39
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BobBallWill do.15:40
johnthetubaguyso, sounds like we are almost there15:40
johnthetubaguyI am going did into errors tomorrow I am afraid, got blueprints to sort out this afternoon15:40
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BobBallwell I won't have time to look at them based on the list of things I've got to do :D15:41
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BobBallOK - that's all for the CI I think15:42
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johnthetubaguyits awesome to see it going15:42
leifzReal quick is there a quick link to look at errors in general?15:42
johnthetubaguyI actually found a team that might help maintain it in Rackspace, once we have it proven, if thats helpful15:42
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BobBallWhat do you mean leifz ?15:43
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johnthetubaguy#action look into XenAPI build errors:
BobBallShould b e easy to do johnthetubaguy - it's all up in github15:43
leifzyou said you needed help looking at failures.  Was curious if that easy to look at.15:43
BobBallAh yes - the link that John gave includes the log files for the errors15:44
johnthetubaguyOK, so lets move on..15:44
johnthetubaguy#topic AOB15:44
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:44
johnthetubaguyanyone else got anything to talk about?15:44
BobBallWe want to add to those log files to include the host logs (matel is working on this) as there is important info in those for some errors15:44
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johnthetubaguysounds good15:44
BobBallNo AOB from me15:45
BobBallAnd I have to jump away now15:45
johnthetubaguyits blueprint cut off day, patch up today, else your blueprint gets defered15:45
johnthetubaguyOK, thanks BobBall15:45
BobBallI'll be back in a few minutes15:45
johnthetubaguynothing from me15:45
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:46
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 19 15:46:04 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:46
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jgriffithhey everybody16:00
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ameadehey hey16:01
jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 19 16:01:35 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:01
jgriffithpheww... quite a week16:01
jgriffithand it's only Wed :)16:02
jgriffithOk... we've got a number of things on the agenda so let's get on it16:02
jgriffith#topic I3 Status check/updates16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "I3 Status check/updates (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:02
jgriffithIMO there's a ton of cruft in here16:02
thingeeI agree.16:03
jgriffithThe BP and bug list should be frozen at this point16:03
jgriffithno new proposals16:03
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jgriffithbugs we can slip to RC's of course16:03
jgriffithbut feature proposals are done16:04
jgriffithso let's focus on those fornow16:04
jgriffithfor now16:04
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jgriffithThe way I've been doing this is sort on priority16:04
thingeewith the number of reviews already in, I worry about the things that are just "started"16:04
kmartinshould any BP not in Needs Code Review be pushed to Juno?16:04
jgriffiththingee: understood16:04
jgriffiththingee: I think we may want to propose dumping some of these16:04
jgriffithDuncanT: let's start with yours16:05
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jgriffithDuncanT: are you actually working on this?16:05
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DuncanTYes. I've got code that works but needs tidying up for submission16:05
DuncanTRealisitically if it isn't in tomorrow it is not going to be in16:05
jgriffithDuncanT: Ok... fair enough16:05
jgriffithDuncanT: I'm going to hold you to that when I wake up in the AM :)16:06
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DuncanTFair enough16:06
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jgriffithrohit404: is this you?16:06
jgriffithor dosaboy ?16:07
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jgriffithor nobody16:07
rohit404jgriffith: not me16:07
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jgriffithrohit404: sorry.. Ronen Kat16:07
jgriffithanyway... it's proposed since Jan16:07
jgriffithIMO this one is higher on the priority list for this week16:08
jgriffithdosaboy: I think we need to break the BP though between the metadata and export/import16:08
jungleboyjYeah, I have a list of reviews to take a look at.  I should add this.16:08
thingeegot some drafts on that one.16:08
thingeemostly the body key export-import confuses me16:09
jgriffiththingee: can you point us to the part you're thinking of?16:09
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avishaywhoops sorry i'm late16:11
jgriffithdosaboy: doesn't seem to be around16:11
dosaboyjgriffith: implementing import/export without metadata would kind of be a regression since you would not be able to import/export e.g. bootable volumes16:11
jgriffithdosaboy: oh... there he be16:11
dosaboyaye aye16:11
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dosaboyi've not had a chance to review that patch yet tbh16:12
jgriffithdosaboy: yeah16:12
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jgriffithso ok let's review see if we can get info from Ronene16:12
jgriffithdosaboy: my question is the missing parts to complete the BP16:12
jgriffithdosaboy: I agree we need to get the metadata import/export landed still16:13
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jungleboyjjgriffith: I will make sure Ronen is aware we have Qs.16:13
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jgriffithdosaboy: It's just unclear of what actually constitutes this bp being "implemented"16:13
dosaboyjgriffith: which bp?16:13
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ik__I'm a newbie here :)16:14
dosaboyjgriffith: ok i'll see if I can get that clarified16:15
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jgriffithdosaboy: thank you sir16:15
dosaboyik__: welcome16:15
jgriffithdosaboy: I'd like to separate it out to what we're going to do in Icehouse and reference maybe what's still ongoing16:15
dosaboyok sure16:15
jungleboyjik__: Welcome to the party!16:15
jgriffithwe've got a number of bp's that we aren't very clear on "when is it done"16:15
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jgriffithbswartz: you here16:16
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jgriffithBP proposed and approved in Dec but no activity16:17
jgriffithconsidering this will not make it16:17
kmartinnope, push to Juno, next16:17
jgriffithI'll get with bswartz when he's around16:17
avishayjgriffith: i think we spoke about this a few weeks ago and bswartz said it was more complicated than he thought, and it would be juno16:17
DuncanTHe's said before that he's stuck trying to get a clean implementation16:17
jgriffithK... done16:18
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bswartzjgriffith: yes16:18
jgriffithbswartz: too late we figured it out without you :)16:18
jgriffithbswartz: shout if we're wrong16:18
bswartzhah yes thank you16:18
jgriffithI'm not happy with this one16:18
jgriffithtwo things...16:19
jgriffith1. It's ugly16:19
jgriffith2. Is it really needed16:19
jgriffithDon't know if anybody else has any thoughts on this?16:19
jgriffithI have concerns about it for a number of reasons16:20
DuncanTIt certainly is ugly, and the quota code has proven to be fragile in the past....16:20
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jgriffithnot the least of which being we have existing quota consistency issues, and piling user quotas (which I don't know how valuable that is anyway) on top of it makes things worse IMO16:20
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jgriffithand I'm not sure about the implementation anyway16:21
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jgriffithAnybody object to pushing it?16:21
jgriffithI mean, pushing it out16:21
DuncanTI can see the value of the feature but I think we should punt to J since the implementation is not ready16:21
jgriffithanybody else?16:21
avishayjgriffith: how can you object to its usefulness?  nova has it! :)16:21
jgriffithDuncanT: thanks16:21
jgriffithavishay: very very poor argument16:21
jgriffithavishay: although it's getting used more and more lately16:21
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jgriffiththingee: has a great cartoon of that16:22
avishayjgriffith: agree.  we should invest a bit of effort to clean up quotas first.16:22
coolsvapjgriffith: :)16:22
ameadewhat is the usefulness of it exactly? why don't project level quotas suffice?16:22
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DuncanTameade: Allowing the tenant to do finer grained quotas inside their tenant is something some users like, e.g. in a public cloud context - means one account can be shared more widely16:23
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avishayI think push to Juno .. given that quotas are a bit broken, this will also be broken16:23
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jungleboyjavishay: +216:24
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jgriffithSorry.. I'm slow because i'm typing notes, updating reviews and bp's :)16:24
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avishayjgriffith: your secretary took the day off? :)16:24
* jungleboyj is slow because I am laid out with a stomach bug. Was so nice of my boys to share.16:25
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jgriffithavishay: yeah... :)16:25
* DuncanT is just slow.16:25
jgriffithOk, there's two more mediums that I think we need to talk about16:26
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dosaboyavishay: you think this is gonna make I-3 and could it include the meta support? (see comment in BP)16:26
dosaboythis being -
jgriffithboth have code proposed16:27
jgriffithboth are kinda fugly16:27
avishaydosaboy: TSM driver will not have metadata support in icehouse16:27
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avishayjgriffith: can we start with the 2nd (force host)?  i think that's easier because nobody liked it16:28
DuncanTI'm extremely concerned that the local scheduler is not solving a clearly defined problem and should be thought about more carefully16:28
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jgriffithavishay: :) sure16:28
dosaboyavishay: okey16:28
jgriffithavishay: I think that impl gets kicked16:28
coolsvapjgriffith: i think we had a round of discussions for force-host16:28
DuncanTI like the idea of force host, but not if the implementation is anything other than clean, simple and unobtrustive16:28
jgriffithavishay: but we look at doing an exception to get the feature for Icehouse still16:28
jgriffithDuncanT: ^^16:29
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bswartzI don't see why force host is needed when volume types can achieve the same effect?16:29
jgriffithand figure out who/when somebody rewrites it16:29
DuncanTThe proposed implementation is fugly16:29
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DuncanTbswartz: admin/testing/similar - nothing tenant facing16:29
jgriffithbswartz: yes, that's a debatable point16:29
avishayI think that winston put forth some very good objections in the review16:30
jgriffithSo there are some "holes" here as well16:30
avishaybswartz: i agree16:30
jgriffithkeep in mind we don't expose "host" anywhere really either16:30
bswartzDuncanT makes a excellent point16:30
jgriffithat least not a mapping16:30
* jgriffith only sees this as something for admin, and still limited 16:30
bswartzI do get the need for testing16:30
jgriffithI think we need to build some better admin tools16:30
DuncanTCertainly it isn't worth ugly code16:31
jgriffithso I guess this falls lower on priority list16:31
avishayI could live without this ever being implemented16:31
avishayAnd if yes, clean and admin-only16:31
jgriffithDuncanT: bswartz avishay OK... I'm going to say we punt, but if someobdy cares enough to write a clean admin interface into this we can look at it16:31
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jgriffithand it would be this week or early next16:31
avishayjgriffith: how far can you punt it? :)16:32
jgriffithotherwise it's not something we seem to really "need"16:32
jgriffithavishay: depends on how long of a running start I get16:32
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thingeeavishay: +1 I could live w/o it16:32
DuncanTIf somebody really needs it, they've got to pony up good code...16:32
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jgriffithI'm just going to defer it then16:32
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jgriffithwe need to remember to detail the bp better in Juno (I'll forget) :)16:32
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avishayback to local-storage-volume-scheduling?16:33
avishayi think thingee and DuncanT had comments here?16:33
thingeespoke to jgriffith about it. THis seems aligned with what vishy was talking about, along with jgriffith talking about brick16:33
thingeeif we want to help nova in this regard, this is something we have to move towards.16:34
DuncanTI'm concerned that the semantics just aren't defined anywhere... they seem to want ephemeral volumes from the commit message, but aren't implementing that16:34
jgriffithSo it's not what we actually talked about in Portland and want16:34
jgriffithbut it's a start16:34
avishayDuncanT: why ephemeral?16:34
jgriffithDuncanT: it's no ephemeral (even if it reads that way)16:35
jgriffithDuncanT: it's really about local attached for perf reasons16:35
jgriffithDuncanT: that's really it in a nut-shell16:35
jgriffithThe ability to schedule local disk resources on the compute node for an instance to use16:35
avishaydoes nova support booting a VM on the same host as a cinder volume?16:35
DuncanTBut what happens when the instance dies? What are the rules for connecting the volume to a new instance?16:35
jgriffithinstead of san attached16:35
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jgriffithDuncanT: same as they are today16:35
jgriffithDuncanT: It's still a Cinder volume16:35
jgriffithavishay: there's no coorelation16:36
jgriffithavishay: I mean... there's no shared knowledge16:36
DuncanTjgriffith: so you /can/ remote attach it afterwards, on any compute host? That's better... maybe just a docs problem then16:36
jgriffithavishay: all this patch does is provide that16:36
jgriffithDuncanT: Well... no :(16:36
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jgriffithDuncanT: so remember we have a "block" driver now that's a local disk only16:37
avishayjgriffith: i meant to ask what DuncanT asked - if you shut down the VM, can you bring another one up to attach to your volume?16:37
jgriffithno iscsi, no target etc16:37
thingeejgriffith: oh, well then perhaps I'm still not understanding :)16:37
bswartzthere was a plan to add the so-called "shared knowledge" to one or both schedulers though wasn't there?16:37
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jgriffithHOWEVER you make an interesting point16:37
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DuncanTjgriffith: IMO that isn't a cinder volume...16:37
jgriffithit would be interesting to extend the abstraction16:37
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jgriffithtreat it more like a real cinder vol16:37
DuncanTjgriffith: Or at least we don't have a rich enough interface to express that16:38
jgriffithdifference is if it's "local" to the node your provider_location and export is just the dev file16:38
jgriffithinstead of a target16:38
DuncanT'Island' tried that, right?16:38
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jgriffithDuncanT: I never really figured out what they were trying ;)16:38
jgriffithDuncanT: but yes, I think it was along the same lines16:38
jgriffithSo anyway...16:38
DuncanTMy problem is that there's nothign in the return of 'cinder list' that tells me which vms I can / can't connect to16:38
jgriffithMy thoughts on this are:16:38
jgriffithUseful features, needs a bit of thought and cleaning16:39
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jgriffithI'm ok with letting it ride til the end of the week16:39
jgriffithif it's not cleaned up and made mo'betta then it gets deferred16:39
jgriffithDuncanT: Yeah... to your point16:39
DuncanTI'd really like to hear in detail what is supposed to happen after detach16:39
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thingeeDuncanT: the cinder list comment is good. I think you should raise that in the review16:39
jgriffithDuncanT: I'd say go back to my suggestion about how to abstract it so it "CAN" have a target assigned and work like any other cinder volume16:40
jgriffiththingee: DuncanT I don't want to do that :(16:40
jgriffiththingee: DuncanT I'd rather make it more "cinder'ish"16:40
DuncanTI agree - make it more cinderish16:40
jgriffithSo the patch looks different this way16:40
avishayjgriffith: +116:40
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jgriffithIt becomes more of a filter scheduling deal16:41
bswartzMy understanding of the proposal was to make it like a regular cinder volume with a hint that allowed you to bypass the iscsi layer when the target and initiator would be on the same box16:41
DuncanTSo the hint applies, but in every other respect except performance, it is a normal cinder volume16:41
jgriffithand attach then determines "hey... can I just do a local attach or do I need an export"16:41
avishayi think nova also needs a similar way of saying "launch a VM on the same host as this cinder volume"16:41
jgriffithDuncanT: for the most part16:41
DuncanTThe call out to the nova API in the API server still worries me too16:41
jgriffithavishay: yeah, it probably needs to go both ways16:41
DuncanTBut that is an implementation detail16:42
jgriffithI don't want to go too deep on this16:42
jgriffithI've been going back and forth on the idea for a about a year16:42
jgriffiththis was what we were aiming for with brick16:42
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jgriffithbut that got completely side ways16:42
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bswartzwhatever happened to brick16:43
bswartzis it split out from cinder yet?16:43
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DuncanTI think a discussion about local volumes needs to start with answering the question how cindery do you want them?16:44
jgriffithand there's new stuff in the works for cross project communicatiion and scheduling16:44
jgriffiththat solves alot of this problem16:44
jgriffithso I hate to get carried away and invest a ton because I think that stuff is going to land in J16:44
jgriffithalright... I'll take a look at this later and update the BP and review16:44
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kmartinbswartz: not yet, WIP16:44
jgriffithif we get it great, if we don't we don't16:44
jgriffithbswartz: no, I flat out haven't gotten around to it16:44
avishayjgriffith: sounds good16:45
jgriffithbswartz: and the LVM code kept changing so much this past cycle I didn't feel it was stable enough to break out16:45
jgriffithbswartz: It's J-1 now though :)16:45
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kmartinjgriffith: timecheck 15 minutes left16:45
bswartzjgriffith: so when can we push the nova guys to use it instead of their crappy attach code?16:45
jgriffithOk.. sorry I took all the time up here16:45
jgriffithbswartz: I think hemnafk ported most of the initiator/attach stuff already?16:46
jgriffithone more16:46
jgriffithdescent enough idea16:46
jgriffithbut it's been stagnant since october16:47
jgriffithnot to mention as eharney points out there are considerations here16:47
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kmartinjgriffith: +1 defer16:47
DuncanTIf there's no code and nobody offering it, defer16:47
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avishayeven though the BP seems to contain code, there's no patch :)16:48
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bswartzI think the patch is in the BP -- it's literally 2 lines16:48
DuncanTNeeds a config option too16:48
avishayand unit test16:48
bswartzeven so eharney's alternative suggestion seems reasonable16:48
jungleboyjDuncanT: +216:49
jgriffithI'll look at it later and consider implementing it16:49
jgriffithbut for now it's off the table16:49
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avishaythat works16:49
jgriffithI'll get with eharney on his stuff later16:49
jgriffithMy stuff is on the way (need one good day of no crisis or not being sick)16:50
guitarzando people use the cfq scheduler on their volume nodes?16:50
ik__jgriffith: need any helping hand there? I've not started here yet.16:50
jgriffithik__: reviews would be fantastic :)16:50
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jgriffithcfq scheduler?16:50
guitarzanfor ionice on taht blueprint16:51
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ik__jgriffith: even if I'm novoice? :)16:51
jgriffithguitarzan: sorry.. .don't know what you're saying :)16:51
avishayguitarzan: i would assume so16:51
jgriffithik__: best way to learn the code is review :)16:51
jungleboyjik__: We will help you learn!16:51
guitarzanavishay: I guess if it helped for that person with the blueprint16:51
jungleboyjjgriffith: +216:51
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jgriffithOk, so wer'e about out of time and I hogged the entire meeting16:52
jgriffithYou ahd some items16:52
DuncanTik__: -1 is the best review you can provide16:52
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jgriffithik__: be critical16:52
jgriffithnot typos etc but in the code quality16:52
jgriffithwe've been getting bad about writing ugly code lately IMO16:53
jgriffiththingee... all yours16:53
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kmartindriver maintainer: please review and update your cert results here:
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thingeetopic change?16:53
thingeemilestone consideration for drivers16:53
jgriffith#topic milestone consideration for drivers16:54
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thingeeI want to propose something written on how we allow new drivers in.16:54
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thingeeto avoid a backlog in milestone 3 when we should be focusing on stability16:55
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thingeeand documentation16:55
avishaythingee: +116:55
jungleboyjthingee: +116:55
DuncanThear hear16:55
kmartinthingee: +116:55
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jgriffithThnk we all agreee, and stated this before but never wrote it in stone :)16:56
thingeeThis is being more strict with maintainers, but in return we should be better on reviews in milestone 2 of getting a driver through16:56
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avishaythingee: no arguments here :)16:56
jungleboyjthingee: Yeah, that means we have to be better about tackling the hard reviews.16:56
DuncanTWhat about requiring a cert run for new drivers?16:57
* ameade is curious about the cinder hackathon16:57
jungleboyj:-)  Badges for the cores!16:57
akerrameade: +116:57
avishayDuncanT: different topic - see the wiki16:57
thingeeDuncanT, avishay: you both asked about the cert tests. I have a review for that
thingeeneeds to be more helpful as pointed out by jgriffith, otherwise, good16:58
avishaythingee: cool16:58
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thingeeso please comment on those two. let me know what wording should be fixed up. I would like to have this settled before J16:59
jgriffiththingee: coolio?16:59
thingeeand finally hackathon16:59
avishaythingee: 2 minutes - want to advertise your cinder 3-day super coding thing?16:59
jgriffiththingee: next topi16:59
jgriffith#topic hackathon16:59
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thingeeso hangout will probably be it. unfortunately spots are limited.16:59
thingeeif you are going to be dedicated, please join the hangout :)16:59
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thingeeI'll post a link to the room16:59
thingeetopic or whatever for people to join17:00
* hartsocks waves17:00
avishaythingee: can you post before monday?  other time zones can start earlier17:00
thingeeI would really like to see us get through reviews together and finish some stability bugs.17:00
jgriffithhartsocks: :)17:00
jgriffithwe're going we're going17:00
avishaybye all!17:00
thingeeavishay: I'll be likely up late to start17:00
thingeeok done!17:00
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jgriffiththanks everyone17:00
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jgriffithclear out for hartsocks17:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:01
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 19 17:01:07 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:01
openstackMinutes (text):
rushiagrthanks all17:01
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hartsocks#startmeeting vmwareapi17:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 19 17:01:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:01
hartsocksHi folks, who's around?17:01
ik__when is hackathon?17:01
brownei'm here17:02
* rgerganov is here17:02
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rgerganovgaryk told me that he won't make it17:02
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hartsocksik_: sorry to run you off.17:02
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hartsocksrgerganov: I got a note too. Short meeting then?17:04
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rgerganovhartsocks, agree17:04
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hartsocksI think most folks were aware that the FF for blueprint proposals passed around the time of our last meeting (back on Feb 05)17:06
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hartsocksWhat this means is we have to stop proposing new BP to Nova.17:06
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hartsocksThat doesn't mean code has to be perfect today though. (but perfect is nice)17:07
hartsocksFeature Freeze is actually March 4th.17:07
browneside note: the agenda link has a dead link to
hartsocks#action clean out dead link in wiki17:08
hartsocksbrowne: thanks.17:08
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hartsocksSo, March 4th if your code isn't "perfect" it's not getting in.17:08
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brownehartsocks: does that mar 4th date apply for bugs too?17:09
hartsocksFF is for BP but...17:10
hartsocksit's probably a good idea to have the bugs ready too.17:10
hartsocksOnce that deadline hits it's really hard to get attention.17:10
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hartsocksThe rule on Bugs is you may backport them if you can get reviews and cycles to do it.17:10
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tjonesbrowne: keystone may have different rules than nova too17:11
hartsocksIt's better to have the bug fix in before the version is cut.17:11
browneok thx17:11
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hartsocksOh, yeah. Each project can have different internal deadlines. The link is for OpenStack in general. A project's deadline won't be any *later* than the posted deadline on the wiki.17:12
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hartsocksSo, for example, Nova has moved up its deadlines for the sake of reviewer sanity.17:12
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hartsocksSo after typing all of that...17:13
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hartsocksI took some time this AM to update our etherpad.17:13
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hartsocksI will try to keep that up-to date on where things are in icehouse.17:14
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hartsocksI usually do an update pass every Wednesday morning. With the deadlines looming I will try to be more frequent.17:14
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hartsocksThere's a section in there for critical bugs. These are intended to free Minesweeper.17:15
hartsocks#topic blueprints17:15
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:15
tjonesthat is very good.  the core reviewers tend to jump on those bugs that will help minesweeper17:16
hartsocksI've only identified two so far. There's bound to be more.17:16
hartsocksJust for the record:17:17
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tjonesshould we be also calling out dependencies?   Im concerned about our long dependecny chains17:17
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hartsocks(the reason Minesweeper was not accepting the patch is that Minesweeper uses proxies and I never tested in a proxied environment.)17:17
hartsockstjones: I could do the homework for dependencies17:18
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hartsocksDoes anyone have a BP that they need to talk about before we move to bugs?17:19
sabarineeds some reviews.17:19
hartsocksThat's a *number* of patches17:20
rgerganovI will take a look at these17:20
sabariThanks Rado.17:21
rgerganovI want to restore my patch for favoring shared datastores and this is somehow related17:21
rgerganovI mean we need to come up with good DS selection algorithm17:21
hartsocksI'm already concerned that interacts with what I'm trying to do.17:21
sabariSo that was you, I remember to have seen that patch, but couldn't relate to who was working on it.17:21
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hartsocksrgerganov: yes, I remember we figured out we need to rank the DS somehow but we never fleshed out how to do it.17:22
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sabarithe change was need to make use of the vim as a base class for pbm connections.17:22
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sabarihartsocks: can you post the link for the change that you are doing.17:23
hartsockshow does that affect the normal vSphere WS SDK interactions?17:23
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hartsockssabari: this is that autowsdl business. It seems to be continually blocked or ignored.17:23
sabariit doesn't affect the standard connection mechanism. For SPBM, we need to connect to a new endpoint using a new wsdl.17:24
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hartsocksyes, but you've modified the soap connector code…17:24
hartsockssoap URL code17:24
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hartsocksso what I'm concerned about is that this might accidentally mean if my patch merges I will break your SPBM support.17:25
sabarikind of just a tweak so that we can get the url's for both code flows properly.17:25
sabariI view the change by pbm code to be a bit cosmetic.17:25
sabariit doesn't change a lot of semantics.17:26
sabarii will take a look at your code.17:26
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hartsocksthanks. Looks like Jenkins doesn't like my tests anymore.17:26
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hartsocksOkay, so moving on...17:28
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vuil has a couple of patches17:28
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vuilavailable for review as well17:28
vuilthough I'd say wait a day or two as a few of the patches can use another round of update of the oslo vmware lib17:29
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rgerganovvui, what kind of infrastructure do I need to test vsan?17:29
tjonesvuil: is that moving along ok?17:29
tjonesthe oslo stuff17:29
rgerganovtjones, we have the repository created -- oslo.vmware17:30
vuilsame for spbm, kinda :-)17:30
vuilI can walk you through it later.17:30
rgerganovvuil, thanks17:30
tjonesrgerganov: when i checked last week it was blocked on an infra issue.  is it unblocked?17:31
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rgerganovfresh and clean17:31
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tjonesum… there is nothing in there yet…17:32
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tjonesi mean other than the directory structure and stuff17:32
vuilThe action is happening here:,n,z17:33
rgerganovyes but Vipin resubmitted his patches17:33
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hartsockswow. lots of action.17:33
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vuillooks like dims is helping with bringing the dependencies needed17:34
hartsocksIs this work still going to make icehouse-3?17:34
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rgerganovnot sure, we should talk to Vipin17:35
vuilThink the library is in good shape, we just need to get the project set17:35
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vuilup properly for review/verification17:35
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hartsocksokay, lots to stay on top of then.17:36
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hartsocksAnything else on blueprints? Anything on blueprint priority?17:38
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hartsocks#topic bugs17:40
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:40
hartsocksI ran my bug priority report this morning.17:40
hartsocksThe report itself has some bugs.17:40
tjoneslooks like we need to do some triage17:41
hartsocksas far as what's tagged vmware, 6 un-triaged isn't so bad…17:42
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1278149 in nova "VMware: InstanceNotRescuable hit during rescue tempest tests" [Critical,Fix committed]17:42
hartsocksShould that be tagged for our sub-team list?17:42
tjonesyes - but there are 200 in nova and now that i am the "bug czar" i'd love our list to be 0 :-D17:42
tjonesi'll take a look at that one17:43
hartsocksSo, is this still useful?17:44
tjonesyes it should.  I will add it.  yes the project is very much used by our customers and partners17:44
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hartsocksWe can do bug-triage outside the meeting in #openstack-vmware17:45
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hartsocksopen discussion or is there a bug someone needs to bring to our group attention?17:46
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hartsocks#topic open discussion17:46
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:47
hartsocksokay, any topics at all?17:47
tjonesok sure17:47
tjonesi want to make sure i know what our top 5 critical bugs are for icehouse.  so i look at your list….  *loooking*17:48
tjonesand i see ordered by prio - but that is nova prio which may not be our customers prio17:48
hartsocksit's a combination17:49
hartsocksit's nova priority + vmwareapi subteam priority17:49
hartsocksthe sum of the two priorities is the overall rank.17:49
tjonesok great!  so high/critical is high for nova, critical for our customers - correct?17:49
tjonesexcellent!  that is exactly what i need17:49
hartsocksThat lets us follow the rule that a driver that's non-gating literally can *never* rise to Critical/Critical17:50
hartsocksThe Nova core are trying to conserve "Critical" to mean "breaks *all* of OpenStack" … but you knew that.17:50
hartsocksI have a separate list for "blocks Minesweeper" but I've not figured out how to fold the three different priorities together (or whether I should bother)17:51
tjonesi don't think it is needed.  when we have minesweeper blockers i ask the core guys to take a look and they are very responsive17:52
tjonesso i'd just bring those 2 to their attention either IRC or ML17:52
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hartsocksA note on testing...17:53
hartsocksUnit testing.17:53
hartsocksI have been trying to improve my use of mocks and I did something a little rude this morning … I dropped a test on someone-else's patch.17:54
hartsocksI handed over the original patch so I felt it wasn't too terrible17:54
hartsocksStarting at line 46217:55
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hartsocksI managed to mock out all the API except for the code under test.17:55
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hartsocksThen I used asserts to do assertions on wether the API was used correctly.17:55
hartsocksI couldn't figure out how to explain this without code.17:55
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hartsocksBut, using the mocks, we can assert that a task is created and waited on.17:56
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hartsocksI would like to do more testing in this direction because I feel it will allow us to cover more branches and scenarios.17:56
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rgerganovthe problem with mocking is that creates tight coupling between tests and code under tests17:57
rgerganovbut it is the way to go in most of the cases17:57
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hartsocksCompared to writing a which has to cover all possible use scenarios the Mocking could actually be less coupling.17:57
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hartsocksThe problem with the is that as you increase the number of scenarios it can cover you come closer and closer to building a simulator of the system under test.17:58
hartsocksPerhaps I can learn to do better Mocks.17:58
hartsocksBut in the test I've linked...17:58
hartsocksI get to actually initialize the real object under test.17:59
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hartsocksA reviewer can come in and see… yes… that's the object under test, not a fake version.17:59
hartsocksThat's my soap box on the topic anyhow.17:59
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tjonesi'd like to be able to write better tests.  i will spend some time looking at this18:00
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hartsocksIt's not what I would call good code, but I'm trying. :-)18:00
brownei definitely like using mock over mox or fakes18:01
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hartsocksThis particular set of mocks I wrote because instead of pulling serviceContent the code was pulling the Vim object… it made the wrong API calls.18:01
hartsocksThe test enforces call order.18:01
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hartsocksLooks like we're out of time.18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:02
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 19 18:02:14 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:02
openstackMinutes (text):
SumitNaiksatamhartsocks: thanks, we have a FWaaS meeting18:02
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan SridarK garyduan yisun there?18:02
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: hi18:03
SridarKHi Sumit18:03
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SumitNaiksatamok lets get started18:03
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SumitNaiksatam#startmeeting Networking FWaaS18:03
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 19 18:03:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas'18:03
SumitNaiksatam#topic gate and temptest testing18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "gate and temptest testing (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:04
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SumitNaiksatamlast week we again brought up the enabling FWaaS at the gate with the PTL18:04
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SumitNaiksatamthe current plan is that we are waiting for a final nod from the PTL on this thursday18:05
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SridarKSo after that the tempest tests can get pushed up ?18:05
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: yeah, we need this to be enabled so that the FWaaS tempest tests can be run in the gate18:06
SumitNaiksatamEmilienM: there?18:06
RajeshMohanHi al18:06
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: hi, thanks for joining18:06
SumitNaiksatamEmilienM: posted the patch #link
SridarKHi RajeshMohan:18:07
SumitNaiksatamwhich targets the FWaaS API18:07
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SumitNaiksatamhowever there was already a patch posted by yair: #link
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SridarKHmm! yes that is what confused me18:08
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SumitNaiksatamjust wanted to check with EmilienM if his patch supersedes the other one18:09
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SumitNaiksatam#action SumitNaiksatam to check with EmilienM, Yair and mlavalle regarding the FWaaS API patch18:10
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x2d46910>18:10
SumitNaiksatam: #action SumitNaiksatam to check with EmilienM, Yair and mlavalle regarding the tempest FWaaS API patch18:10
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SumitNaiksatamin addition we would need to add scenario tests as well18:11
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SumitNaiksatamlet me know if there is interest18:11
SumitNaiksatamand we can coordinate accordingly18:11
SridarKAre we time barred for this already ?18:12
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: not that i am not aware of18:12
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: i think earlier is always better18:12
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SridarKok so for tests the review cut off of Feb 18 does not apply ?18:12
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SumitNaiksatam#action SumitNaiksatam to also check if there are cut off dates for tempests tests18:13
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SumitNaiksatamanything more on gate or tempest tests?18:15
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK RajeshMohan garyduan: once we enable fwaas in the gate, we will have to be on the lookout of any issues that may crop up and break the gate18:15
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SridarKok will do18:16
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: thanks18:16
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: so we need to be watching closely on the day we turn it on, and at least a couple of days after18:17
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: there?18:17
SridarKok - is there an email list or some thing to subscribe to to know if there is an issue18:17
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: not that i am aware of18:18
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SumitNaiksatami think we should join the openstack-ci IRC channel18:18
SridarKok thanks SumitNaiksatam:18:18
SumitNaiksatamor rather chat room18:19
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: Is there a way to run these tests manually - so that we know how to debug18:19
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: good question18:19
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: i believe you documented at least some of this, right?18:19
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SridarKSumitNaiksatam: RajeshMohan: we can do the tempest runs manually18:20
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SridarKyes i had sent out an email to all on that18:20
SridarKbut now figuring out and debugging is some deep magic. :-)18:20
SridarKI will invest some time on this18:21
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: thanks, can you post the wiki page link again?18:22
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: thanks18:23
SridarKwill keep updating that as we add more things into tempest with some of these new patches18:23
SridarKnp SumitNaiksatam:18:23
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SumitNaiksatamok next topic18:24
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SumitNaiksatami don't see garyduan so let's go to the fwaas insertion18:24
SumitNaiksatam#topic Service Insertion and Firewall18:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Service Insertion and Firewall (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:24
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: thanks for updating the patch18:25
RajeshMohanI added unit tests to the patch18:25
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: do we have the end to end flow working?18:25
RajeshMohanI believe I have good coverage - if not let me know18:25
RajeshMohanYes - tested with service context and verified18:25
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: nice18:26
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: I will do more testing18:26
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: I had one suggestion on the validation18:26
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: yes18:26
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: currently we are passing the key_specs18:26
SumitNaiksatamrouters, networks, etc18:27
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: yes18:27
SumitNaiksatamthis is good in a way since its flexible18:27
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SumitNaiksatamhowever, it also introduces the possibility of some service introducing a context that is different from the others18:27
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: ok18:28
SumitNaiksatami was thinking that if we don't pass the key_specs but embed the validation inside the validation method, it will be good18:28
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SumitNaiksatamthat way, if some service wants to pass something else, they will have to modify the validation method18:28
SumitNaiksatamand is more apparent during the reviews18:28
SumitNaiksatamand also we have one place which clearly enumerates all the supported contexts18:29
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: when you some other service - you mean like vpnaas, lbaas?18:29
SumitNaiksatamyeah, or any others in the future18:29
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SridarKSumitNaiksatam:  so u mean that the keyspecs is just a string18:30
SumitNaiksatamperhaps, the key specs can be defined as constants in the attributes module18:30
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: I am ok with that - I did this foe flexibility (as you mentioned)18:30
SumitNaiksatamthe key specs is optional right?18:30
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: Yes18:30
SumitNaiksatamso i was thinking that we don't use it18:31
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SumitNaiksataminstead always check against a fixed list of strings (routers, networks, subnets, ports)18:31
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: I thought -not requiring to change attribute file - will be a good thing18:31
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: but if you think it helps in reviews, I can make the change18:31
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: at this point i am not sure what others think, i am coming from the perspective of there being a standard contract for all services18:32
SumitNaiksatamit makes it easier from the user's standpoint to understand the semantics18:32
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SumitNaiksatamdo you guys agree?18:33
SridarKHmm i still a bit on the wall18:34
SridarKit is more flexible for sure18:34
SridarKbut potentially some anbiguity for the end user18:34
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: in service context chain - some common definition of all possible service context makes sense18:34
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: thats a good point18:35
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: yeah18:35
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: thanks for posting the CLI patch18:36
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: you had some issues with using the CLI?18:37
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SridarKSumitNaiksatam: No worries -  i am doing the validation for now - but we can discuss ur suggestion to defer resource validation to the backend18:37
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: yes I tried and it did not work for me - send email to Sridar18:37
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: before that, garyduan had some concerns on the terminology and the db model18:38
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SridarKSumitNaiksatam: RajeshMohan: I tried to check on the msg formatting to make sure that it is aligned with the backend18:38
SridarKstill debugging some UT issue18:38
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: thanks, let us know when you think its working18:38
SridarKwill sync with RajeshMohan: on this patch and then make sure it works18:38
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: earlier question18:39
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: you mean the review comments from Gary18:40
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: or was there some offline comments?18:40
SumitNaiksatamas regarding service_context versus insertion_context, that evolved from a discussion with nati_ueno18:40
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: yes18:41
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: I saw the review comments  - I will follow up with Gary. Was busy with unit tests18:42
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: ok18:42
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SumitNaiksatami believe service_context terminology should be good18:42
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SumitNaiksatamthere was a suggestion on reducing the number of tables18:43
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: I liek service_context18:43
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: there is many-to-one relation. THat was one of the reasons for multiple table18:44
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: Gary's comments were not complete - atleast I could not see how it would be done with one table18:44
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: yeah, i am not sure we can group everything into the same table18:45
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: I will get more information from him18:45
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: let me think about it as well18:45
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: thanks18:45
SumitNaiksatam#action RajeshMohan to follow up on garyduan's comments on reducing the number of tables18:45
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: we don't need any devstack changes, right?18:46
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: default is still all routers18:46
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: yes - not changes18:46
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: I mean, no changes18:46
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: ok18:46
SumitNaiksatamanything more to discuss on this?18:46
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SumitNaiksatam#topic service_type framework18:47
*** openstack changes topic to "service_type framework (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:47
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SumitNaiksatami believe garyduan is still not around18:47
SumitNaiksatamhe posted a new patch with more UTs18:47
SumitNaiksatamSridarK RajeshMohan can you take a quick look at his patch?18:48
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: you might also need to rebase your patch (it shows that its out of sync)18:48
RajeshMohanI rebased last night18:48
RajeshMohanlet me check18:48
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SridarKSumitNaiksatam: will do - was tied up with the CLI stuff but will review now18:48
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: ah ok, i probably checked before that18:48
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: it currently says outdated18:49
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: np18:49
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: It is current18:49
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: oh18:49
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: I did not refresh18:49
SumitNaiksatamon gerrit it says outdated18:49
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: I will rebase in next 30 min18:50
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: np, take your time18:50
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: amotoki has some comments on garyduan's patch18:50
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: perhaps we can expect the same for your patch as well, so we can preempt those18:50
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: I will look at those comments18:51
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: thanks18:51
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SumitNaiksatami don't think Yi is here either18:51
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SumitNaiksatam#topic Open Discussion18:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:52
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SumitNaiksatamanything more to discuss today?18:52
SumitNaiksatamor we can get a few minutes back18:52
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SumitNaiksatambtw, there are some discussions going on in the context of group policy that require service insertion/chaining18:54
SumitNaiksatami have pointed to RajeshMohan's patch18:54
SumitNaiksatamyou guys can also chime in18:54
SumitNaiksatamok thanks guys, bye!18:55
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: This is good if we can get synergy across these18:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:55
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 19 18:55:12 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:55
openstackMinutes (text):
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: absolutely18:55
SridarKok lets talk offline more on this18:55
SridarKbye Sumit, Rajesh18:55
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: sure18:55
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notmynameswift team meeting time19:00
notmyname#startmeeting swift19:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 19 19:00:22 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'19:00
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notmynamewho's here?19:00
* creiht queues swift meeting music19:00
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notmynamehi everyone. great to have you all here!19:01
notmynameagenda for the meeting ^19:01
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notmynamelet's start off with storage policies19:01
notmyname#topic storage policy status19:01
*** openstack changes topic to "storage policy status (Meeting topic: swift)"19:01
creihtofficial swift meeting music:
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peluseacct roll up was done til I just got feebdack from torgomatic :)19:02
notmynamewe're still out on account updates and the reconsiler19:02
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notmynamepeluse: ok, what's next there?19:02
peluseshouldn't take long though....19:02
peluseI have 2 up for review (one small, one medium) and torgomatic has a series of patches that need another core on them19:02
peluseand then the acct rollup later today19:02
notmynamecreiht: nice :-)19:02
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torgomaticI could use a cup of coffee the size of my head...19:03
notmynametorgomatic: twist. it is your head (in lego world)19:03
notmynamepeluse: cool. I'll look for those updates later today then19:03
notmynametorgomatic: tell me about the reconciler19:04
peluseso can we get another core on the remaining reviews up there?  that's  wrap us up for merge to master unless you want to hold off on docs19:04
torgomaticso I wrote this thing for a proposed design19:04
notmynametorgomatic: ready to share your dissertation with everyone else? ;-)19:04
torgomaticand what I'd like is for people to poke all kinds of holes in it19:04
notmynamepeluse: reconciler first, then merge :-)19:04
pelusenice write-up, will have to read after meeting to digest19:05
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torgomaticwith one caveat: if you don't like the timestamp hack, please suggest a viable alternative... just saying "don't do it because the timestamp hack is ugly" isn't especially helpful19:05
notmynamecreiht: I'd love for you gholt and redbo to read over torgomatic's link19:05
notmynametorgomatic: how do you want feedback? IRC? comments on the gitst?19:05
torgomaticdoesn't have to be a fully-fleshed-out alternative, just some thoughts19:05
creihtnotmyname: passing the link around19:05
notmynamecreiht: thanks19:05
torgomaticnotmyname: I'll take feedback via IRC or email; I don't think the gist takes comments19:06
creihttorgomatic: can someone take a sec to state what the misplaced object problem is?19:06
notmynameI see a comment field at the bottom19:06
torgomaticcreiht: sure19:06
torgomaticnotmyname: well, TIL :)19:06
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torgomaticstep 1: partition your cluster by hosing the network19:06
torgomaticstep 2: on side A, create a container in policy 1 and upload an object19:07
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torgomaticstep 3: on side B, create the same container with policy 2 and upload an object19:07
torgomaticstep 4: unhose the network19:07
creihtok this is due to the policies19:07
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notmynamegholt: welcome :-)19:08
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notmynameany other questions on the purpose of the reconciler?19:09
zaitcevthis is why I hate the so-called "replication network" that we accepted19:09
pelusethe name?19:09
notmynametorgomatic's patches right now that are up for review on the feature/ec branch are for the reconciler work (ie groundwork)19:09
torgomaticyes; all the Python code I've written for the reconciler can be found at the linked gist19:10
torgomaticand the astute observer will note that it's all English text and no Python19:10
cschwede_zaitcev: hmm, but a network split (and misplaced objects) is possible no matter if you use a separate replication network or not - or am i wrong?19:10
peluseit is19:10
zaitcevcschwede_: yes, but recovery occurs by our old mechanisms without reconciler, does it not19:10
pelusenot w/the policy scenario just decribed19:11
torgomaticzaitcev: storage policies introduce a brand new failure mode that the reconciler fixes19:11
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zaitcevtorgomatic: okay, I'll read the gist19:11
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notmynamezaitcev: thanks19:12
cschwede_torgomatic: are there plans to include the reconciler into the container updater?19:12
* cschwede_ also reads later19:12
notmynamecschwede_: also bug chmouel about it :-)19:12
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cschwede_notmyname: ok, will do :)19:12
torgomaticcschwede_: new daemon, not part of container updater19:12
notmynameportante: welcome. just finishing up reconciler discussion19:13
portantek, sorry I'm late19:13
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notmynamelooking at dates, we will need to have the Icehouse RC at the end of March. that gives us about 6 weeks (a little less) from now to get the reconciler, account updater, and it merged to master19:14
notmynameI'd like to see the merge to master happen sooner than later so we can suss out anything that shows up at the end19:14
notmynamebut I realize that the merge will take time19:14
peluseyou mean acct rollup patch I assume - the updater was already merged to the EC branch19:14
notmynamepeluse: yes, that19:14
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pelusenote that we've been keeping the EC branch in sync w/master weekly so it shouldn't be so bad19:15
notmynamepeluse: well not too many merge conflicts. that's not what I'm worried about :-)19:15
notmynameany other questions on storage policies for the meeting today? otherwise discussion can continue in -swift19:16
pelusequick EC update if interested19:16
notmynameyes, that would be good19:16
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notmynamepeluse: keving: EC update?19:16
pelusekeving tushar and I met in San Jose yesterday for a half day and white-baord the PUT/GET paths, more good detail coming out of that.  keving is writting up a doc/picture19:17
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pelusealso we talked about the next level of detial on the reconsitructor and I'm going start on that once the acct rollup on policies is done19:17
kevingoh sorry…  stepped away19:17
keving(what paul said)19:17
pelusethat's all - just twanted to mention those two things (unless keving or tushar wants to add something)19:17
creihtcan we call it the reconstitutor? :)19:18
kevingthe EC lib is done for now19:18
pelusewe can call it Julie for all I care :)19:18
notmynamekeving: good to hear19:18
peluserock on keving!19:18
kevingi think we have a handle on PUT/GET/Reconstructor19:18
torgomaticwe've already got a replicator; we can use whatever sci-fi sounding names we want now ;)19:18
peluseI kinda like the rehydrator19:19
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notmynamekeving: I had a few general questions I wanted to ask about the EC stuff. can you join #openstack-swift? it's not really important stuff for this meeting19:19
notmynameok, so no more on EC or storage policies? ;-)19:20
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notmyname#topic python-swiftclient status19:20
*** openstack changes topic to "python-swiftclient status (Meeting topic: swift)"19:20
notmynamethis is a fun* one. *fun not applicable in all areas19:20
notmynameso we had a big release last week19:21
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notmynameand it broke all the things19:21
notmynamebut AFAIK, we're stable now. back to the way things should be19:21
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notmynameI send a post-mortem out (don't have the link handy now)19:21
portanteyes, would like to see that, thanks19:22
zaitcevokay, we're shipping 2.0.2 in RDO. next topic.19:22
notmynamebut the essence is that the cert checking wasn't properly tested and it was proken19:22
notmynamebroken, even19:22
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notmynamecschwede_: thanks19:22
notmynametristanC is working on some further testing (starting with unit tests) for swiftclient19:23
notmynameand we also need some functional tests there19:23
zaitcevmore like that other guy (other than Tristan) almost got it all working but security experts say that it's still too hazardous to reimplement, so let's use Requests.19:23
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cschwede_notmyname: I'm working on functional tests19:23
notmynameah cool19:24
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cschwede_and tristanC and me were discussing these earlier19:24
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notmynameI'd like to see the testing for swiftclient improve before we jump into the py3 changes19:24
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notmynamemany of the existing tests aren't doing much "eg foo function returns any string" rather than actually checking it's doing the right thing19:25
notmynameso that's gotta improve19:25
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cschwede_the question is: should we actually use a swift cluster for testing?19:25
cschwede_or just a simple http server that behaves like a swift cluster?19:25
cschwede_(for functional testing)19:25
notmynamecschwede_: swift functional tests require a swift cluster to be running19:26
notmynameseems reasonable to require the same for swiftclient19:26
tristanCHere are some unit test I wrote for the bugs that hit the gate friday:
cschwede_notmyname: ok, i was thinking the same. thus i'll use a swift cluster like in swift functional tests19:26
notmynametristanC: thanks19:26
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tristanCBut I think we really need functionnal tests, it's not enough to unit test a network client19:27
notmynamecschwede_: and like swift itself, using a test config file is a sane option to allow testing against different clusters19:27
notmynametristanC: agreed19:27
cschwede_notmyname: ok!19:27
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notmynameany more questions on swiftclient, last weeks release, or plans there?19:27
tristanCwell some performance concern have been raised on #openstack-swift19:28
mjseger_that was me19:28
mjseger_but I'm happy now ;)19:28
notmynameyes. mjseger_'s been doing a good job there :-)19:29
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notmynameand mjseger_ is happy, so that's good :-)19:29
notmynameok, let's move on then19:29
notmyname#topic make pbr an opt-in thing19:29
*** openstack changes topic to "make pbr an opt-in thing (Meeting topic: swift)"19:29
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notmynamepbr has always been another fun* topic. *again, fun not available in all areas19:30
notmynamecreiht has written a patch19:30
notmynameand I think most of us like it as-is. (well, I may add a few comments)19:31
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notmynamemy plan is to make sure we are good with it (to avoid many needless patch sets) and then bring it up with the -infra team19:31
notmynamemy goal is to make pbr and opt-in thing so as to reduce the packaging burden on deployers19:31
creihtif this goes through, then I will do the same as well for swiftclient19:32
notmynamecreiht: thanks19:32
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torgomaticcreiht: note that swift-bench is already just setuptools sans pbr, so you can skip doing that one19:32
notmynameany questions on this or concerns with the patch right now?19:32
notmynametorgomatic: or maybe add a setup.cfg19:33
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creihti'll wait until that is *required819:33
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creihtcan't type19:33
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notmyname#topic the review queue19:34
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notmynameI think we've been getting better here19:34
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notmynamethe review queue is still long, but it's shorter than it was19:34
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* portante has been staying away to keep this trend alive ... ;)19:34
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notmynamelinks like
zaitcevI wasn't reviewing squat this week, because reasons (becoming an expert in Glance and such). Will get better.19:35
notmynameare helpful19:35
notmynameie stuff with no core reviews19:35
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notmynamesomething else that I've noticed is that when any one of us goes away and then comes back, things temporarily get better19:36
notmynameeg, creiht's extra reviews recently have really helped out19:36
notmynameand I'd expect portante and zaitcev being more active in the next few weeks will help too19:36
notmynameI've seen similar things with swifterdarrell19:36
notmynamepoint being, it seems we're just under a critical mass of review velocity that we seem to break through occasionally19:37
notmynamedfg: your cors patch expired after you added your owm -119:37
notmynamewhat's the status of that?19:38
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notmynamewe've also got 2 competing patches up for the same issue19:39
zaitcev"there's a problem with this- will put up a new patch in a bit" (Jan 31)19:39
notmyname and
notmynamefrom acoles and otherjon19:39
notmynameacoles: otherjon: anything to report there? any agreement on a direction?19:40
otherjonnotmyname: I haven't heard from acoles19:40
acolesi put a new version up just before meeting19:40
otherjonacoles: I'll take a look19:40
acolesagree with your comment but found anothe rissue in process19:40
zaitcevboth look fine at first glance19:40
notmynameeither of you starting to like the other patch better?19:40
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zaitcevoh now what19:41
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zaitcev{ } is still a dict isn't it. so they shouldn't conflit... right?19:41
dfgnotmyname: sorry had to do something real quick.19:41
acoleszaitcev: i found { } (space significant) returned a 40019:42
acoleszaitcev: so 2nd patch fixes that too19:42
acolesotherjon: let me know your thoughts19:42
otherjonacoles: I like your idea -- I was hoping to implement that change in parse_acl_v2 return value myself, but the ACL patch went through so many changes that it felt too risky to destabilize it with a non-trivial change in behavior19:42
portantedfg, folks, notmyname's computer just froze, rejoining shortly19:43
dfgnotmyname: anyway- the cors is a pain because i think I have to keep things as backwards compatible as possible even though the existing cors behavior is pretty crappy19:43
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otherjon(re: returning None for invalid input)19:43
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acolesotherjon: ;)19:43
otherjonacoles: I haven't looked at the code yet, but if that's what you implemented, expect a +1 from me. :)19:43
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acolesotherjon: ok. thx.19:43
notmynamehmm...that was weird19:44
notmynamecomputer froze. had to restart19:44
notmynameacoles: otherjon: good there for now?19:44
notmynameI think I missed a couple of lines)19:44
acolesnotmyname: yep. hope so.19:44
otherjonnotmyname: I think we have agreement on how to proceed -- I'm a fan of acoles's idea, we just have to make sure we catch all the edge cases19:45
notmynamegreat to hear. thanks19:45
notmynameother reviews to discuss in the meeting this week?19:45
dfgnotmyname: anyway- the cors is a pain because i think I have to keep things as backwards compatible as possible even though the existing cors behavior is pretty crappy19:45
dfgnotmyname: did you see that? i'll try to get around to fixing it pretty soon19:45
donaghdfg: do we think anyone is *really* using the existing cors behavior (i.e., does it matter if break backwards compat [shock, horro])19:45
notmynamedfg: ok. is it something you're actively working on or something that you'l get to at some point?19:45
dfgdonagh: i don't know..19:46
notmynamedonagh: ya, I think some people are. but part of the issue is that we know that clusters support them and have not idea what the users are actually doing19:46
donaghok. I can never get my head around it19:46 can't tell potential impact19:47
notmynamewell, I do agree with dfg's commit message: "cors, a standard designed to annoy people"19:47
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dfgwell- right now if you are relying on cors headers to be present for normal non-options calls they are just magically there- even if you never set up container lvl cors19:48
zaitcevwe should have kept a hold of that boooi guy from Crunchy19:48
zaitcevinterrogate him about actual practices19:48
dfgthe change i made made that not true for static web19:48
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dfgwhich seems harmless enough... but19:48
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notmynamedfg: I'm glad you were thinking about it19:50
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notmynameany other patches to bring up this week?19:50
gvernik_container migration. acoles review it so far and provided me valuable comments. But I still need a core to review it.19:50
dfgthe if-match thing for slos19:50
zaitcevwell, there's 47713 as always... But I promised peluse to trade some Policy reviews for it and was pretty much failing it this week19:50
notmynamedfg: ? torgomatic has that as WIP19:51
torgomaticdfg: yeah, I need to rework that one; you and gholt are right about the whitelist stuff19:51
* torgomatic just needs some round tuits19:52
dfglike- i don't know what the best solution is right now but i guess i'd like to note that we're kinda waiting on it for our release. which means whatever...19:52
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torgomaticdfg: you're waiting on if-match support, or a fix for the 500?19:52
zaitcevThere's also a "WIP" 70513 "Guru Meditation" (idiotic name for a state dump)19:52
zaitcevI hoped someone would find it useful, but Greg said he moved beyond the pressing need for it19:53
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zaitcevI need to find someone who I can sell on goodness of it, otherwise Abandon officially. Anyone who's running a big enough cloud where replicators hang mysteriously might be interested, I think. Like anyone from HP perhaps?19:54
dfgtorgomatic: i think the 500 one- but doesn't it depend on the other one?19:54
notmynamezaitcev: is it still WIP?19:54
torgomaticdfg: yeah, but that's because I suck at patch ordering :|19:54
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zaitcevnotmyname: It's only marked WIP per your message, but I'm not actually working on it. It's ready to be used.19:54
creihtzaitcev: link?19:54
dfgoh ok- well i don't like patch ordering. i didn't really look to see what the actual dependencies are or anything19:55
notmynamedfg: ok, good to know you are waiting on that one. I'll add it to the priority review page19:55
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zaitcevcreiht: like ?19:55
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creihtzaitcev: ahh19:56
donaghzaitcev: "...replicators hang mysteriously..."    Yes. HP interested. Will take a look19:56
notmynamezaitcev: I honestly don't remember what I said on that19:56
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creihtzaitcev: i'll try to poke at it19:56
notmynamezaitcev: if it's ready to be reviewed, please remove the WIP19:56
notmynamedonagh: creiht: thanks19:57
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notmyname#topic open discussion19:57
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notmynameanything else in the last few minutes?19:58
donaghI have a FYI about the API docs19:58
zaitcevdo tell19:58
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donaghDiane Fleming has done a major update
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donaghActually two changes: the WADL and the spec19:59
donaghChapter 2 of spec is the same as api ref on docs.openstack.org19:59
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donaghchapter 1 has lots more concept info (taken from old chapter 2)20:00
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notmynamedonagh: are there some specific things we should look at?20:00
donaghplus stuff I wrote20:00
notmyname"Read the whole thing" is kinda hard to digest :-)20:00
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donaghI guess if there is an area you know something about, it might be worth looking over20:01
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zaitcevdonagh: but the Revision table is not updated, last entry une 10, 2013 • Corrected delete container to be delete object.20:01
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donaghe.g., StaticWeb20:01
donaghThings that changed:20:02
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notmynamedonagh: it looks like that is already published? or is there an outstanding patch for it all?20:02
donaghBulk upload, bulk deletem forport, tempurl, container quota20:02
donaghIts published. The doc people seem to do things differently20:02
notmynamelooks like a section on the /info controller too20:02
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donaghHad some review by Sam20:03
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donaghAlso an update to authentication -- makes Keystone and tempauth peers20:03
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notmynameah, interesting20:03
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cschwede_account quota is missing?20:03
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donaghNot there because users cant set account qoota20:04
donagh..need to be reseller admin20:04
donaghdito account create/delete20:04
notmyname(FYI no meeting behind us today, so I didn't cut us off 4 minutes ago)20:04
cschwede_ah, ok, only user part - sorry for that20:04
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notmynamedonagh: thanks for mentioning the doc updates20:05
zaitcevI immediately squirreled away that API doc for my collection.20:05
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notmynamethanks for coming to the meeting today. see you all here next week20:06
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 19 20:06:13 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:06
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Daisywho are around to attend I18n meeting?23:59
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