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| isviridov | #startmeeting MagnetoDB | 10:17 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 13 10:17:51 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is isviridov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 10:17 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 10:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: MagnetoDB)" | 10:17 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'magnetodb' | 10:17 |
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| isviridov | #topic Test topic | 10:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Test topic (Meeting topic: MagnetoDB)" | 10:18 | |
| isviridov | #agreed The agreement | 10:18 |
| isviridov | #endmeeting | 10:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit on review.openstack.org is down for maintenance (revised eta to resume is 13:00 utc)" | 10:18 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 13 10:18:47 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 10:18 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/magnetodb/2014/magnetodb.2014-03-13-10.17.html | 10:18 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/magnetodb/2014/magnetodb.2014-03-13-10.17.txt | 10:18 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/magnetodb/2014/magnetodb.2014-03-13-10.17.log.html | 10:18 |
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| jlibosva | k | 12:46 |
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| isviridov | #startmeeting MagnetoDB | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 13 13:01:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is isviridov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: MagnetoDB)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'magnetodb' | 13:01 |
| isviridov | Hi everybody | 13:01 |
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| achuprin | Hi | 13:01 |
| achudnovets | hi | 13:01 |
| aostapenko | Hello | 13:01 |
| volmax | Hi | 13:01 |
| miarmak_ | hi | 13:01 |
| isviridov | So let us start | 13:01 |
| SpyRay | hi all | 13:01 |
| isviridov | Teh agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/MagnetoDB/WeeklyMeetingAgenda | 13:02 |
| isviridov | #topic General project status overview | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General project status overview (Meeting topic: MagnetoDB)" | 13:02 | |
| isviridov | So, i'm happy to see all of you here. | 13:02 |
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| isviridov | As you know we have released POC version and now started working on 2.0.* | 13:03 |
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| isviridov | The main goals for current 2.0.1 version are: | 13:03 |
| isviridov | * openstack infra integration | 13:03 |
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| isviridov | * definition MagnetoDB API | 13:03 |
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| isviridov | * devstack integration | 13:04 |
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| isviridov | So, current version scope https://launchpad.net/magnetodb/+milestone/2.0.1 | 13:06 |
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| isviridov | Should we proseed with next topic? | 13:07 |
| aostapenko | looks reasonable | 13:08 |
| miarmak_ | + | 13:08 |
| achudnovets | + | 13:08 |
| isviridov | #topic MagnetoDB API Draft status | 13:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MagnetoDB API Draft status (Meeting topic: MagnetoDB)" | 13:08 | |
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| isviridov | achudnovets, looks it your song | 13:08 |
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| isviridov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/MagnetoDB/api | 13:09 |
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| achudnovets | there is the MagnetoDb API draft https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/MagnetoDB/api | 13:09 |
| isviridov | achudnovets, good job! | 13:10 |
| isviridov | achudnovets, have you discussed it with smb from community? | 13:10 |
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| achudnovets | nope, I'd like to hear some comments about it | 13:11 |
| isviridov | Probably the ML is better place for that | 13:11 |
| aostapenko | isviridov: +1 | 13:12 |
| achudnovets | I agree | 13:13 |
| isviridov | #action achudnovets start ML thread with API discussion | 13:13 |
| isviridov | achudnovets, i've seen BP about API implementation. | 13:13 |
| isviridov | Good job, I've added most pf them to 2.0.1 version scope | 13:14 |
| isviridov | #link https://launchpad.net/magnetodb/+milestone/2.0.1 | 13:14 |
| isviridov | #topic Third party CI status | 13:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Third party CI status (Meeting topic: MagnetoDB)" | 13:14 | |
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| isviridov | So, with MagnetoDB we need to have CI process out if openstack infra, but together with it | 13:15 |
| isviridov | 1. running cassadnra integration test | 13:15 |
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| isviridov | 2. run devstack integration tests | 13:16 |
| achudnovets | Why we need CI outside openstack infra? | 13:16 |
| isviridov | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnetodb/+spec/third-party-ci | 13:16 |
| aostapenko | isviridov: Why don't we run devstack integration tests in infra? | 13:16 |
| isviridov | achudnovets, because of 1. and 2. ) | 13:16 |
| achudnovets | ok, I see, thanks :) | 13:17 |
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| isviridov | aostapenko, we are not a part of openstack yet. In future, when we will integrate. We will run it there. | 13:17 |
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| aostapenko | isviridov: I suppose we can do new gate with devstack in infra | 13:18 |
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| isviridov | aostapenko, not sure, that we can add our project to devstack. It can brake whole dev process. | 13:20 |
| achuprin | now we have some requirements for environment | 13:20 |
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| achuprin | as results we need own env | 13:20 |
| achuprin | which will be integrated with Infra | 13:21 |
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| achuprin | we hava 3 way for this | 13:21 |
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| achuprin | 1. Gerrit layer | 13:22 |
| achuprin | 2. zuul layer | 13:22 |
| achuprin | 3. Nodepool layer | 13:23 |
| isviridov | Do we know what the way we go now? | 13:23 |
| achuprin | some information you can find here https://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-infra@lists.openstack.org/msg01013.html | 13:23 |
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| achuprin | now we use Gerrit layer integration for cassandra unittests | 13:24 |
| achuprin | but for devstack testing we need other way | 13:24 |
| achuprin | zuul or nodepool layers integrations | 13:25 |
| isviridov | achuprin, looks we need the wiki page about it. | 13:25 |
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| achuprin | can we discuss this offline? | 13:26 |
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| isviridov | Yeap, let us go to #magnetodb for discussion | 13:26 |
| aostapenko | achuprin: I think all this tests can be run by different gates in infra | 13:27 |
| isviridov | #action achuprin discuss with infra the best way for our CI | 13:27 |
| isviridov | #action achuprin create wiki page with CI description | 13:28 |
| achuprin | isviridow, wiki - ok | 13:28 |
| isviridov | next topic? | 13:28 |
| achudnovets | + | 13:28 |
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| ominakov | + | 13:29 |
| isviridov | #topic Support of other database backends except Cassandra. Support of HBase | 13:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support of other database backends except Cassandra. Support of HBase (Meeting topic: MagnetoDB)" | 13:29 | |
| volmax | + | 13:29 |
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| achuprin | aostapenko, yes it will be run by different gates, but for this we need specific env. (cassandra requirements for example ) | 13:30 |
| isviridov | We have to look at other database for MagnetoDB, not only Cassandra | 13:30 |
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| ikhudoshyn | do we, really? | 13:31 |
| isviridov | It is common case, HBase comes together with big data processing and we have evaluate if HBase or some other DB suits | 13:31 |
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| isviridov | ikhudoshyn, hey man | 13:32 |
| ikhudoshyn | so by 'other database' you mean hbase, right? | 13:32 |
| isviridov | ) at least | 13:32 |
| ikhudoshyn | isviridov, hi there | 13:32 |
| isviridov | Do you have anything to share with us in that dirrection? | 13:32 |
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| ominakov | how magneto can interact with HBase? | 13:33 |
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| aostapenko | ominakov: the same way as with cassandra | 13:33 |
| isviridov | ominakov, the underlying databate pluggubility by design. | 13:34 |
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| ikhudoshyn | are there any other candidates, apart from hbase? | 13:34 |
| ikhudoshyn | 'cos with hbase i kinda got a tiny complain | 13:34 |
| isviridov | ominakov, it is possible just to implement another DB support | 13:34 |
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| isviridov | ikhudoshyn, riak, mongodb. What do you think? | 13:34 |
| ikhudoshyn | ominakov, thats the issue | 13:34 |
| isviridov | ikhudoshyn, but HBase always comes with Hadoop and Big Data | 13:35 |
| isviridov | I think we have to start ML thread | 13:37 |
| aostapenko | isviridov: + | 13:37 |
| achudnovets | + | 13:37 |
| isviridov | ikhudoshyn, can you drive it? | 13:37 |
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| isviridov | #action isviridov ikhudoshyn start mail thread about evalution other databases as backend for MagnetoDB | 13:38 |
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| isviridov | #topic Devstack integration status | 13:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Devstack integration status (Meeting topic: MagnetoDB)" | 13:38 | |
| isviridov | It is vital thing actualy | 13:38 |
| isviridov | vnaboichenko, SpyRay any news? | 13:38 |
| isviridov | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnetodb/+spec/devstack-integration | 13:39 |
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| vnaboichenko | we have done script which deploys cassandra 2.02 from tarbar with oracle jdk 1.7 and magnetodb from master | 13:39 |
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| vnaboichenko | we are investigating in cassandra cluster manager | 13:40 |
| vnaboichenko | https://github.com/pcmanus/ccm | 13:40 |
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| isviridov | WOW! Looks as huge progress | 13:40 |
| vnaboichenko | now looks good, we will modify scripts for set up nodes with this manager | 13:40 |
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| isviridov | I think we need some guide for work with it | 13:41 |
| vnaboichenko | yes, i will made a wiki | 13:41 |
| isviridov | Awesome! | 13:41 |
| isviridov | #actio vnaboichenko devstack integration guide in OpenStack wiki | 13:42 |
| isviridov | #action vnaboichenko devstack integration guide in OpenStack wiki | 13:42 |
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| isviridov | #topic Weekly meeting time slot | 13:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Weekly meeting time slot (Meeting topic: MagnetoDB)" | 13:42 | |
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| isviridov | We have to think about better time for our meeting to cover US contributors. | 13:43 |
| isviridov | What about 1700 UTC | 13:43 |
| miarmak_ | do we have maybe a table with free time slots? | 13:43 |
| isviridov | Other suggestions? | 13:43 |
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| aostapenko | 17 is good | 13:44 |
| isviridov | miarmak_, good point. We have to check free slots | 13:44 |
| isviridov | I'll do so | 13:44 |
| achudnovets | 1700 UTC is good for me | 13:44 |
| isviridov | #action isviridov find better time slot for meeting | 13:44 |
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| miarmak_ | isviridov: yeah, and after that take several slots and vote for them | 13:45 |
| isviridov | #action isviridov start ML voting meeting time | 13:45 |
| isviridov | miarmak_, yeap | 13:45 |
| miarmak_ | awesame) | 13:45 |
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| isviridov | #topic Open discussion | 13:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: MagnetoDB)" | 13:45 | |
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| isviridov | ikhudoshyn, how was your fly? | 13:45 |
| isviridov | ) | 13:45 |
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| isviridov | ikhudoshyn, it looks like we can count on you in PST timezome. | 13:46 |
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| miarmak_ | is it 6.47 am now?) | 13:47 |
| isviridov | miarmak_, yeap. But we have seen him | 13:47 |
| isviridov | Ok, guys. Looks like we finished | 13:47 |
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| isviridov | Thx and see you at #magnetodb | 13:48 |
| miarmak_ | btw | 13:48 |
| ikhudoshyn | oops, guys, had issues with connection | 13:48 |
| miarmak_ | i remember 1 thing about time | 13:48 |
| isviridov | miarmak_, pelase | 13:48 |
| miarmak_ | we have time change soon in ua | 13:48 |
| miarmak_ | ) | 13:49 |
| isviridov | miarmak_, good point. I'll take it into account | 13:49 |
| miarmak_ | thx) | 13:49 |
| isviridov | #endmeeting | 13:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit on review.openstack.org is down for maintenance (revised eta to resume is 13:00 utc)" | 13:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 13 13:49:21 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/magnetodb/2014/magnetodb.2014-03-13-13.01.html | 13:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/magnetodb/2014/magnetodb.2014-03-13-13.01.txt | 13:49 |
| aostapenko | thanks | 13:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/magnetodb/2014/magnetodb.2014-03-13-13.01.log.html | 13:49 |
| aostapenko | bye | 13:49 |
| miarmak_ | bye all | 13:49 |
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| vnaboichenko | bye | 13:49 |
| achudnovets | bye | 13:49 |
| ominakov | bye | 13:49 |
| achuprin | bye | 13:49 |
| ikhudoshyn | bye | 13:50 |
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| enikanorov_ | neutron lbaas meeting in 3 minutes | 13:57 |
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| enikanorov_ | #startmeeting neutron lbaas | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 13 14:00:43 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is enikanorov_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas' | 14:00 |
| enikanorov_ | hi | 14:00 |
| obondarev | hi | 14:00 |
| s3wong | hello | 14:01 |
| jorgem1 | hello | 14:01 |
| blogan | hello everyone | 14:01 |
| vjay | hi | 14:01 |
| edhall | hi | 14:01 |
| enikanorov_ | let's start with some announcements | 14:01 |
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| enikanorov_ | #topic announcements | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:01 | |
| enikanorov_ | we've got new driver in our tree - netscaler from citrix | 14:02 |
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| enikanorov_ | which is backed by their 3rd party CI | 14:02 |
| enikanorov_ | congrats to the authors | 14:02 |
| vjay | thanks enikanorov! | 14:03 |
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| obondarev | embrane driver is close to merge too | 14:03 |
| enikanorov_ | another driver can possibly make it to Icehouse: embrane | 14:03 |
| enikanorov_ | did it get FFE? | 14:03 |
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| obondarev | yes | 14:03 |
| enikanorov_ | good | 14:03 |
| enikanorov_ | so all that is a good indication that community is interested | 14:03 |
| enikanorov_ | at the same time each new driver increases the cost of object model and API change that we're discussing | 14:04 |
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| enikanorov_ | anyway... we also have radware drive the still doesn't have working and voting CI | 14:04 |
| enikanorov_ | I saw tempest patch was merged that resolves some problems with integration testing of radware driver | 14:05 |
| enikanorov_ | so I hope to see their CI voting soon | 14:05 |
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| enikanorov_ | i think we'll not be glad if core team desides to remove the driver from the tree | 14:05 |
| enikanorov_ | #action Sam to update on progress with radware CI | 14:06 |
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| enikanorov_ | that's it on announcements | 14:06 |
| enikanorov_ | lets get back to the object model discussion | 14:07 |
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| enikanorov_ | the diagrams and proposals are on the wiki, I think most of you are already familiar with them | 14:07 |
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| enikanorov_ | Sam Bercovici could not attend | 14:08 |
| enikanorov_ | does anyone have any questions/suggestions on the object model proposals? | 14:08 |
| blogan | after looking at them more carefully i believe proposal #2 is the best | 14:08 |
| obondarev | given that new drivers are merged I thiink one of the main requirements to the new model should be backward compatibility | 14:09 |
| jorgem | Proposal 2 is backwards compatible no? | 14:09 |
| enikanorov_ | yes, it is | 14:09 |
| obondarev | it is | 14:09 |
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| obondarev | so as #3 | 14:10 |
| blogan | what were the cons of proposal 2? | 14:10 |
| enikanorov_ | however after recent discussions I realized that code on review should be improved in order to coply with recent design decisions | 14:10 |
| iwamoto | shouldn't we discuss at API level first? | 14:10 |
| enikanorov_ | blogan: some folks argue the the 'loadbalancer' object is redundant | 14:10 |
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| jorgem | Proposal 3 doesn't allow multiple vips in an intuitive manner which is a big detractor for me. | 14:11 |
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| blogan | enikanorov_: could you explain how it is redundant? | 14:11 |
| enikanorov_ | iwamoto: API maps very closesy to object model, so it's kind of joined discussion | 14:11 |
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| jorgem | enikanorov: Doesn't it make sense though that Load Balancer as a Service have a load balancer object? | 14:11 |
| enikanorov_ | blogan: well, some folks think that all user cares is Vips and Pools | 14:11 |
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| jorgem | it's in the name of the service | 14:12 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: that's a weak argument :) | 14:12 |
| jorgem | and most people speak in terms of a loadbalancer object | 14:12 |
| jorgem | :) just saying | 14:12 |
| enikanorov_ | I agree, but I also want to make sure concerns and objections are addressed | 14:12 |
| s3wong | I think for a user perspective, "listener" is more familiar for those that had used AWS ELB | 14:13 |
| blogan | fair enough, all objections should be addressed and not dismissed | 14:13 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: Should we talk about it proposal one by one then? | 14:13 |
| jorgem | each* | 14:13 |
| enikanorov_ | so basically proposals #2 and #3 address the same problem of reusing same ip address by several vips | 14:13 |
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| enikanorov_ | in #3 vips are called 'listeners' | 14:13 |
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| enikanorov_ | so to me #2 and #3 are basically the same, except of object names | 14:14 |
| enikanorov_ | that's why I'd prefer #2 because bw compatibility is achieved more easily | 14:14 |
| enikanorov_ | s3wong: yes, I stole 'listener' from aws api | 14:15 |
| youcef | and the fact that #3 is not backward-compatible | 14:15 |
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| obondarev | why? | 14:15 |
| enikanorov_ | youcef: it can be made bw compatible | 14:15 |
| s3wong | how can #3 be backward compatible? | 14:15 |
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| enikanorov_ | s3wong: when you create VIP, you also create first listener | 14:16 |
| youcef | how? | 14:16 |
| enikanorov_ | so 1 call will result in 2 objects created | 14:16 |
| youcef | ok | 14:16 |
| s3wong | hmm... I see | 14:16 |
| blogan | in proposal #2 a user would have to create a pool, member, vip and load balancer correct? | 14:17 |
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| enikanorov_ | loadbalancer is also created automatically (for the VIP) | 14:17 |
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| enikanorov_ | because we want to preserve existing workflows | 14:17 |
| jorgem | From the docs: "However this approach doesn't address multiple VIPs in one configuration. For this purpose another entity 'Listener' is introduced." It seems like 2 simplifies this | 14:17 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: yes, but that's mostly about resource names (from API perspective) | 14:18 |
| enikanorov_ | from implementation perspective it's easier to add another simple object like loadbalancer than to do renaming | 14:18 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: Correct, but if 2 and 3 perform the same thing I'd be in favor of simplifying it | 14:18 |
| enikanorov_ | me too | 14:18 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: So I agree with you that 2 is better. | 14:19 |
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| jorgem | To clarify the L7VipPoolAssoc is for L7 switching right? | 14:20 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: yes | 14:20 |
| jorgem | thanks | 14:20 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: that's the way of specifying several pools that are chosen based on L7 traffic processing | 14:20 |
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| enikanorov_ | markmcclain: hi | 14:21 |
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| jorgem | enikanorov: With proposal 2 then, do multiple vips point to the same pools? For example, I want to have both and IPv4 vip and an IPv6 vip point to the same pool | 14:21 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: that's a good question | 14:22 |
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| jorgem | I believe it can be made to do that but the UML needs to be updated | 14:22 |
| enikanorov_ | initially main use case for multiple vips in one instance was Ip address sharing | 14:22 |
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| enikanorov_ | so I'm not sure about Vips having different addresses | 14:23 |
| enikanorov_ | and yes, if we want to support it - the diagram needs to be updated | 14:23 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: Okay, just wondering because IPv6 compatibility would be nice | 14:24 |
| youcef | yes, I think we should support it, it's a common use case, especially with ipv4/ipv6 addresses. | 14:24 |
| enikanorov_ | well, from api/obj model perspective it is ipv6-compatible | 14:24 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: good to know. | 14:25 |
| youcef | I mean having both for the same pool | 14:25 |
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| enikanorov_ | btw | 14:25 |
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| enikanorov_ | we also decided to make pool pure logical object | 14:25 |
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| enikanorov_ | e.g. it can be shared between balancers | 14:25 |
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| enikanorov_ | which means that you can have ipv4 and ipv6 vips pointing to the same pool, but on different loadbalancers | 14:25 |
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| youcef | I thought that loadbalancer is now the root object, which means it decides the provider chosen? | 14:26 |
| enikanorov_ | i discussed the ability of having several vips with different ip addresses and Sam was against that | 14:26 |
| blogan | with that though, having to have two load balancer instances to get two vips pointed to the same pool would be confusing to a user | 14:26 |
| enikanorov_ | youcef: yes, loadbalancer is the root object | 14:26 |
| youcef | if we use 2 loadbalancers, there is a change that the providers will be different. | 14:27 |
| enikanorov_ | right... | 14:27 |
| youcef | I mean for the 2 addresses of the same pool. | 14:27 |
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| blogan | which i think is fine, it'd be a different flavor load balancing the same pool | 14:27 |
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| vjay | i think there will be practical difficulty in implementing this | 14:28 |
| vjay | for ex. statistics | 14:28 |
| vjay | of the pool | 14:28 |
| enikanorov_ | vjay: you're right | 14:28 |
| enikanorov_ | we're also discussed that with Sam | 14:28 |
| youcef | but what if the flavors correspond to different drivers? how could this be implemented? | 14:29 |
| enikanorov_ | statistics should be seriously refactored | 14:29 |
| jorgem | vjay: stats are measured from the vip perspective that's why right? | 14:29 |
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| enikanorov_ | youcef: that's why loadbalancer object could drive the resource to the existing configuration | 14:29 |
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| youcef | but there are now 2 loadbalancers :) | 14:30 |
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| vjay | jorgem: today it is totally based on pool. inorder to understand the traffic sent to the pool members. | 14:30 |
| enikanorov_ | youcef: you mean ipv4 and ipv6? | 14:30 |
| youcef | yes | 14:30 |
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| enikanorov_ | we need to consider allowing such vips under one balancer, but in that case it would not be different from multiple ipv4 addresses within a loadbalancer | 14:31 |
| enikanorov_ | and in that case I suppose it makes sense to allow that, and each driver will decide if it supports it | 14:31 |
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| youcef | enikanorov: I agree | 14:32 |
| enikanorov_ | on the other hand it could also be confusing to the user if certain driver doesn't support that | 14:32 |
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| enikanorov_ | because you don't know the driver, you only provide flavor | 14:32 |
| enikanorov_ | (we're talking about our bright future) | 14:32 |
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| youcef | yes, if we add it, multiple vips per pool will need to be supported by all drivers. | 14:34 |
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| enikanorov_ | that's I'd say could be limitation of flavor mechanism | 14:34 |
| enikanorov_ | or a requirement... | 14:34 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: Is the goal for the meeting to decide on proposal or to discuss the merits of each one? (I just want to understand what the process is since I'm relatively new to this) | 14:35 |
| enikanorov_ | i mean that flavor should contain a requirement for the driver to support multiple vips per loadbalancer | 14:35 |
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| enikanorov_ | jorgem: in general we all need to agree on a certain design. | 14:35 |
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| enikanorov_ | It's also important to get the opinion of some core team mebmers who participate in code reviews | 14:36 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: Perhaps we can come up with what requirements we all need in order to guide our decision? | 14:36 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: Let me know if there is a place already for this. | 14:36 |
| enikanorov_ | markmcclain was generally interested in that discussion and he has objections to #2, but it seems he's busy right now to explain detail of his objections. | 14:36 |
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| enikanorov_ | jorgem: it's mailing list mostly | 14:37 |
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| enikanorov_ | so basically we're meeting here to discuss details and form a decision, but we also need some other folks who should agree | 14:38 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: Gotcha, would you be opposed to have a requirements page? I think that might bring some clarity as to why we will have a certain object model. | 14:38 |
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| enikanorov_ | sure I would not | 14:39 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: For example, the IPv4/IPv6 requirement. | 14:39 |
| enikanorov_ | I think we'd be glad to see such page which will help us and any newcomers to understand the problems that we're trying to solve | 14:40 |
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| youcef | by the way, I don't think we should limit the use case of multiple vips per pool to the ipv4/ipv6 use case, it could be internal/external vip or any other use case. | 14:41 |
| jorgem | youcef: correct. I would consider that another requirement. | 14:41 |
| enikanorov_ | ok, no objections on this one | 14:42 |
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| iwamoto | what's a "requirement page"? | 14:42 |
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| enikanorov_ | iwamoto: i think it's some wiki page that jorgem is willing to create :) | 14:42 |
| jorgem | iwamoto: My idea is that we capture what functionality everyone wants. | 14:43 |
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| jorgem | Then, as we look at the proposals we see which ones satisfy those requirements (conceptually speaking as of right now) | 14:43 |
| jorgem | I'm just suggesting this because we all have different use cases and it will help communicate everyone's intentions of using Neutron LBaaS | 14:44 |
| iwamoto | listing required functionalities sounds great | 14:44 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: Could I email you offline for suggestions on how to create such a page? | 14:45 |
| enikanorov_ | yes, i totally support this idea | 14:45 |
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| s3wong | jorgem: sounds good. An action item for you then :-) ? | 14:45 |
| jorgem | yes | 14:45 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: well... it's wiki, if you have launchpad id, you can log in and create the page. sure you can email me, we acn also discuss the requirements | 14:45 |
| jorgem | #action Jorge to start a requirements wiki page | 14:45 |
| enikanorov_ | ok, anything else to discuss? | 14:47 |
| blogan | enikanorov_: are there core reviewers for neutron lbaas? or is it neutron core reviewers that review the plugins as well? | 14:47 |
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| enikanorov_ | anyone can review the code, we have obondarev who is neutron core and is lbaas key contributor | 14:48 |
| youcef | enikanorov: will proposal 2 need to be changed so the diagram to allow a n:m relationship between vip and pool? | 14:48 |
| enikanorov_ | youcef: it already has m:n actually. it may not be obvious, because 1:1 is from vip to default pool, but through l7 you can have vip-> many pools | 14:49 |
| youcef | enikanorov: I mean the opposte, many vips -> 1 pool | 14:49 |
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| enikanorov_ | that's achievedby multiple vips within loadbalancer | 14:50 |
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| enikanorov_ | each vip can have same default pool | 14:50 |
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| enikanorov_ | of multiple pools via l7 rules | 14:50 |
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| enikanorov_ | so it's not a direct relationship, but though loadbalancer/l7 rules instead | 14:51 |
| youcef | ok, it wasn't obvious to me :) may be then add some text to this effect. | 14:51 |
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| vjay | if option 2 is introduced, can pool exist independently? pool will be always be in scope of a loadbalancer right? | 14:53 |
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| enikanorov_ | vjay: currently the idea is to have pool as a logical object, e.g. it's not bound to the loadbalancer | 14:53 |
| enikanorov_ | so it can exist out of scope of loadbalancer | 14:53 |
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| obondarev | just like health monitor as it is now | 14:54 |
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| jorgem | obviously we won't be able to capture every requirement. However, we can prioritize them and work that way | 14:55 |
| jorgem | How does everyone think we should scope the requirements? Overall functionality or specific to the object model discussion? | 14:55 |
| youcef | Does that mean you can have loadbalancers that have been created with different flavors (and therefore potentially using different drivers) use the same pool? | 14:55 |
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| enikanorov_ | jorgem: i think it makes sense to prioritize them | 14:56 |
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| enikanorov_ | main requirements lay around basic functionality of multiple vips, multiple pools and ip address reuse | 14:56 |
| enikanorov_ | youcef: yes | 14:57 |
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| enikanorov_ | youcef: that redefines some aspects of existing workflows, that is understood | 14:57 |
| enikanorov_ | youcef: also i'm thinking about limiting this ability at first step | 14:58 |
| youcef | so, is the pool reimplemented on each driver? what would be the statistics/status of the pool in this case? | 14:58 |
| youcef | enikanorov: yes I agree, I think we shouldn't allow this, it can be confusing. | 14:58 |
| enikanorov_ | youcef: yes, that's the question that comes first. It gets complicated. | 14:58 |
| enikanorov_ | we have discussed these aspects with Sam, it is solvable, but requires quite a bit of work | 14:59 |
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| obondarev | youcef: are you familar with Sam's proposal? He tried to address that statistics concerns there | 14:59 |
| youcef | I also don't see a valid use case for wanting to do this (using different flavors for same pool). | 14:59 |
| blogan | i think limiting it at first is the right approach and if it ever becomes something that users want then we can do it | 14:59 |
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| youcef | obondarev: I looked at it, but can't say I'm familiar with it :) | 15:00 |
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| enikanorov_ | ok we need to wrap up | 15:02 |
| enikanorov_ | thanks everyone for attending | 15:02 |
| enikanorov_ | #endmeeting | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit on review.openstack.org is down for maintenance (revised eta to resume is 13:00 utc)" | 15:02 | |
| s3wong | thanks | 15:02 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 13 15:02:11 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:02 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-03-13-14.00.html | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-03-13-14.00.txt | 15:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-03-13-14.00.log.html | 15:02 |
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| jorgem | Before the meeting ends, it seemed that through the ML a lot of people were interested in a mini-summit in Atlanta a few days before the summit. I understand there are differences of opinions but I wanted to here any suggestions here on who we should talk to if we really want to go through with it. | 15:07 |
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| dkranz | mtreinish: ??? | 16:03 |
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| krotscheck | Anyone here for the storyboard meeting? | 16:04 |
| afazekas | dkranz: UTC 17:00 http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_UTC.aspx | 16:04 |
| ruhe | krotscheck: hi | 16:05 |
| NikitaKonovalov | o/ | 16:05 |
| dkranz | afazekas: Yeah, I forgot :) | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | #startmeeting storyboard | 16:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 13 16:05:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | #topic mvp status | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mvp status (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:06 | |
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| krotscheck | Ok, so storyboard is up, all the projects have been loaded, and I think the only piece left is the patch Nikita put in to hide th enew project button | 16:06 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | I have created a change for that | 16:06 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: I did see that! | 16:07 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: I'll land that shortly. | 16:07 |
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| krotscheck | So that wraps it for the MVP. | 16:07 |
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| krotscheck | Now, the downside is thta.... well, the UI is already starting to fall down. | 16:07 |
| krotscheck | And further development is still walking across an SQLite minefield. | 16:07 |
| krotscheck | So let's talk about that | 16:07 |
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| krotscheck | #topic SQLite and Migrations | 16:08 |
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| krotscheck | ruhe: Do you want the floor on this? It feels like you've done more investigation on what the tradeoffs are to getting rid of SQLite. | 16:08 |
| ruhe | krotscheck: sure | 16:08 |
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| ruhe | 1. there is a clear problem with a combination of Alembic and SQLite | 16:09 |
| ruhe | and we need to get rid of it | 16:09 |
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| ruhe | 2. We already test our migrations against MySQL and Postgres. and we should continue doing that | 16:09 |
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| ruhe | so there are two options to fix problem #1 | 16:10 |
| ruhe | a. Populate DB for unit tests from SQLAlchemy metadata | 16:10 |
| ruhe | and add a tests which will compare schema populate from metadata and schema populate from migrations | 16:11 |
| ruhe | b. Completely ditch SQLite and run UT on MySQL and Postgres | 16:11 |
| ruhe | option #b has a potential issue - we will need to generate databases with random name to allow parallel testr runs | 16:11 |
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| krotscheck | testr is threaded? | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | Hrm. | 16:12 |
| ruhe | yes | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | Righto- that presents a problem. | 16:12 |
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| ruhe | Ceilometer folks have been working on the same problem for a long time and it isn't still resolved | 16:12 |
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| krotscheck | The metadata approach: basically what we're doing there is have alembic construct the database state in memory before committing it, yes? | 16:13 |
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| krotscheck | Does that discard insert / update statements in the migration? | 16:13 |
| ruhe | krotscheck: actaully not. database schema will be generated directly from SQLA models | 16:13 |
| krotscheck | Oh, hrm. | 16:13 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so a completely empty database. | 16:13 |
| krotscheck | I'm not adverse to that at all. | 16:14 |
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| krotscheck | Do yo usee any potential gotcha's? | 16:14 |
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| ruhe | the main issue we might hit - is our models will get out of sync with migration scripts. but there is a patch to oslo, which adds needed tests | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | That patch compares the SQLA metadata to the database schema? | 16:15 |
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| ruhe | it compares schemes produces from migrations and from metadata | 16:16 |
| ruhe | * produced | 16:16 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, so I like that approach. NikitaKonovalov, any ojections? | 16:16 |
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| krotscheck | How about you, ruhe, any preference for approach? | 16:17 |
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| ruhe | i'd like to take a stab at this at the weekend | 16:18 |
| krotscheck | ruhe: Congratulations, you volunteered :) | 16:18 |
| krotscheck | #action ruhe Make our SQLite problems go away | 16:18 |
| ruhe | krotscheck: thank you very much :) | 16:18 |
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| krotscheck | #topic Hiring! | 16:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Hiring! (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:18 | |
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| NikitaKonovalov | no objections from my side | 16:19 |
| krotscheck | So we've got two candidates in the interview cycle right now. | 16:19 |
| krotscheck | (please don't name names) | 16:19 |
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| krotscheck | These are currently being backed by HP, and we're progressing steadily. | 16:19 |
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| ruhe | me and SergeyLukjanov are going to speak with one of them tomorrow | 16:20 |
| krotscheck | Oh, good :) | 16:20 |
| ruhe | candidate #2 asked to postpone to next week. i'm ok with that | 16:20 |
| krotscheck | To set expectations though, once we choose someone (or both), there is at least a 2 week wait window while HP does background checks and so forth. | 16:20 |
| krotscheck | So new JS talent is at least 3 weeks out, plus onboarding, plus getting familiar with the code. | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | ruhe: Ditto here, he's working on a code sample fo rme. | 16:21 |
| ruhe | krotscheck: your JS talent is enough ;) | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | :-P | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | ruhe: Yeah, but my bandwidth isn't. | 16:21 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, next topic | 16:22 |
| krotscheck | #topic Auth and Permissions | 16:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Auth and Permissions (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:22 | |
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| * krotscheck is trying to find the etherpad... | 16:22 | |
| krotscheck | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/StoryboardPerms | 16:23 |
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| krotscheck | I really don't know if that's a good approach to what ttx is asking for, but it's a first step. | 16:23 |
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| krotscheck | I feel that we're very rapidly going to get into a situation where people are going to ask: How can a TC do things that a regular contributor can't? | 16:24 |
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| krotscheck | So if y'all could go, look at that, and argue about it with me, that would be great. | 16:25 |
| NikitaKonovalov | We might have a table with actor in rows and action in columns and +/- on the crosses | 16:25 |
| NikitaKonovalov | that will show who can do what more clearly | 16:25 |
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| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: I'm having trouble visualizing that - maybe start annotating the etherpad with sql table schema? | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | My main concern with Auth and perms is that it tends to add a lot of SQL queries to each request. | 16:27 |
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| krotscheck | And that can have a significant performance impact, especially if we trust an ORM to manage our queries for us. | 16:27 |
| NikitaKonovalov | agree that may become a problem | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | (case and point, I'd be leery about trying this in hibernate) | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | And yet, it's going to be tricky because perms/auth/roles/whatever may be different for every single resource. | 16:28 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | I'll look through keystone to see how they handle roles | 16:28 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Thanks. | 16:28 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | but I'm pretty show they hammer the database | 16:28 |
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| krotscheck | #action NikitaKonovalov Do more research on good auth/perm approaches | 16:29 |
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| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: I wonder if we can get any performance improvements by offloading things into stored procedures. At least then we take the SQL interpretation load down and lower the number of requests. | 16:29 |
| krotscheck | That's probably a mordred question. ^^ | 16:30 |
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| krotscheck | Anyway, this is an ongoing discussion, so let's move it to the main channel once the meeting is done. | 16:30 |
| NikitaKonovalov | maybe a token expiration can be done with that | 16:30 |
| krotscheck | #topic Feature requests | 16:30 |
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| krotscheck | Have y'all started using storyboard? Anything that REALLY needs to be added? | 16:30 |
| krotscheck | Paging is what I want the most right now - that project list is ridiculous. | 16:31 |
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| ruhe | i'd like all the garbage stories/tasks/projects to be removed | 16:31 |
| NikitaKonovalov | he are not setting fields like author or a creator_id | 16:32 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | though we have all required information about hte user | 16:32 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: I agree. Given that we already have the user id hook, why not just add that on the POST request? | 16:33 |
| krotscheck | ruhe: Deleting stories is already enabled. I've cleaned out all the projects. | 16:33 |
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| krotscheck | ruhe: Tasks works on the API side, I just don't have a UI button for it yet (I think) | 16:34 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: that should be pretty easy to do | 16:34 |
| ruhe | that's great | 16:34 |
| krotscheck | ruhe: I recommend you go in and clean up before we lock down permissions :) | 16:34 |
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| ruhe | i like to clean up | 16:35 |
| NikitaKonovalov | we have already locked project management to superusers | 16:35 |
| NikitaKonovalov | and AFAIK the script for loading them from config is not running yet | 16:36 |
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| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Ah, good point. | 16:36 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so noone should be able to touch projects :) | 16:36 |
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| krotscheck | Since we don't have superusers :)| | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | ...wait a sec. | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | .... ;) | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | We can't admin our own system. Hi-Larious | 16:36 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, so it feels like we've got three big real features for the near future. Paging (krotscheck), task cleanup (everyone), and adding author and/or creator_id to tasks (Nikita) | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | I hope that in the future non-storyboard contributors will use this time to yell at us about what they do don't like :) | 16:38 |
| NikitaKonovalov | and update puppet scripts to load superusers | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Right! I'll make mordred do that. | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | Though I think he's going to be out on vacation next week | 16:39 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I can try to do that also | 16:39 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | Basically it works the same way as loading projects | 16:39 |
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| krotscheck | Alright. | 16:40 |
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| krotscheck | I'm trying to file this as a story, and the projects dropdown is too long to be useful. | 16:40 |
| krotscheck | #topic Open Discussion | 16:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:41 | |
| krotscheck | Anything? | 16:41 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: may i't better to replace a dropdown with simple input with autocompletion? | 16:42 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov, we think alike | 16:42 |
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| krotscheck | Allright, i think we're done | 16:43 |
| krotscheck | #endmeeting | 16:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit on review.openstack.org is down for maintenance (revised eta to resume is 13:00 utc)" | 16:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 13 16:43:51 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-13-16.05.html | 16:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-13-16.05.txt | 16:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-13-16.05.log.html | 16:43 |
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| mtreinish | #startmeeting qa | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 13 17:00:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 17:00 |
| mtreinish | hi who's here today | 17:00 |
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| julien-llp | hi everyone | 17:00 |
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| mtreinish | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting#Proposed_Agenda_for_March_13_2014_.281700_UTC.29 | 17:00 |
| andreaf | hi | 17:00 |
| mtreinish | ^^^ today's agenda | 17:00 |
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| dkranz | o/ | 17:01 |
| sdague | ok, lets run through the high priority blueprints | 17:01 |
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| mtreinish | #topic Blueprints | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:01 | |
| mtreinish | yes, let's get started | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | sdague: do you want to roll through the list? | 17:02 |
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| sdague | sure | 17:02 |
| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/fix-gate-tempest-devstack-vm-quantum-full | 17:02 |
| coasterz | Hi all ;) | 17:02 |
| sdague | rossella_ put out details on the list about the bugs found | 17:02 |
| sdague | I'm going to mark that good progress, and hope it gets closed soon | 17:03 |
| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/multi-keystone-api-version-tests | 17:03 |
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| sdague | andreaf: where do we stand there? there is another review out, right? | 17:03 |
| andreaf | sdague: so I split my patchsets further | 17:03 |
| sdague | ok, great | 17:03 |
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| andreaf | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tempest+branch:master+topic:bp/multi-keystone-api-version-tests,n,z | 17:04 |
| andreaf | I have 5 patchsets there now | 17:04 |
| andreaf | plus I have two patchsets for getting the experimental keystone v3 check | 17:04 |
| sdague | ok, cool | 17:04 |
| andreaf | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79212/ | 17:04 |
| sdague | I think that remains good progress then | 17:04 |
| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/nova-v3-api-tests | 17:05 |
| andreaf | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79314/ | 17:05 |
| sdague | I just marked v3 api tests as implemented. I think cyeoh is going to open a new blueprint for juno | 17:05 |
| mtreinish | yeah that's what we discussed last week | 17:05 |
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| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/tempest-heat-integration | 17:06 |
| sdague | we have heat-slow voting now, which is good. | 17:06 |
| sdague | if stevebaker is around we could figure out if we should call that done, and create a new BP in juno, or move that one to juno. | 17:06 |
| sdague | or anyone else that can speak for heat | 17:07 |
| sdague | it looked like they were talking about a tempest day, or set of days in the heat meeting yesterday | 17:07 |
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| sdague | so I'd like to make sure that we consider new heat patches high priority for review in tempest to support them in that | 17:07 |
| sdague | #info consider tempest patches for heat functionality high priority from review perspective | 17:08 |
| mtreinish | do you want to info that? | 17:08 |
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| mtreinish | oops you win | 17:08 |
| sdague | heh | 17:08 |
| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/unit-tests | 17:08 |
| dkranz | sdague: I think this has been the case for a while but there have not been many patches | 17:08 |
| sdague | dkranz: agreed | 17:08 |
| sdague | I'm hoping that changes | 17:08 |
| dkranz | sdague: RIght | 17:08 |
| sdague | mtreinish: how do you want to handle the unit tests blueprint | 17:08 |
| mtreinish | so unit tests is making progress | 17:08 |
| mtreinish | but we don't really have a defined end point | 17:09 |
| mtreinish | I think there are 4 or 5 patches in progress right now | 17:09 |
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| mtreinish | I think we probably should just leave the bp open until release | 17:09 |
| mtreinish | just to make watching unit test reviews easier | 17:10 |
| mtreinish | then at summit I want to have some discussions about project policy on unit test requirements | 17:10 |
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| sdague | sounds good | 17:10 |
| sdague | that's all the high priority blueprints, anything else we want to bring forward | 17:11 |
| mtreinish | well it'd be nice to get some eyes on my verify script bp | 17:11 |
| afazekas | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/stop-leaking | 17:11 |
| mtreinish | I've got a few patches in progress | 17:11 |
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| mtreinish | afazekas: how is the stop leaking bp progressing? | 17:12 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: Started the new approach, which does not records the resources at the beginning of the run | 17:12 |
| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78251/ currently it is failing | 17:13 |
| afazekas | Two small nits related to this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80280/ , https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78345/3 | 17:13 |
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| sdague | afazekas: cool, is there a review up yet? | 17:14 |
| afazekas | So the new style is to try delete everything in the tenant before the tenent gets deleted | 17:14 |
| dkranz | afazekas: +1 | 17:15 |
| afazekas | The tenent will be logged on creation to a database, or some kind of file | 17:15 |
| afazekas | But the tenant deletion needs to be post process | 17:15 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: Why can't we delete stray resources when the tenant is getting deleted? | 17:15 |
| afazekas | The process process will also double check is the tnent really empty (for example leak on setUpClass filures) | 17:16 |
| sdague | afazekas: so honestly, I'd like to fix the leaking problem by fixing the places where things leak | 17:16 |
| afazekas | dkranz: the setUpclass failures are blind spots | 17:16 |
| sdague | not just cleanup at the end | 17:16 |
| dkranz | afazekas: It would be better if you had a high-level description of the overall plan | 17:16 |
| dkranz | afazekas: Rather than just a set of patches | 17:16 |
| dkranz | afazekas: Is that possible? | 17:16 |
| sdague | on that front, what do people think about taking the nova approach for juno and having a blueprint gerrit repository | 17:17 |
| afazekas | I will rewrite the BP, unless some would like to see the original plan implemented | 17:17 |
| sdague | afazekas: or start with a mailing list thread | 17:17 |
| sdague | because I feel like we still have some disconnect here | 17:18 |
| dkranz | sdague: That is exactly what yair and I proposed for the neutron stuff . I still like it. | 17:18 |
| sdague | and I'd like to get us all on the same page | 17:18 |
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| sdague | dkranz: which thing that I said? :) | 17:18 |
| dkranz | sdague: gerrit blueprints | 17:18 |
| sdague | yeh | 17:18 |
| afazekas | the setUpclasses could be enforced by a decorator, to call tearDownClass even on failuer, if is ok for everyone | 17:19 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah I think we can try that starting in juno | 17:19 |
| dkranz | sdague: An important issue is whether we are managing resources as GC model or malloc/free | 17:19 |
| sdague | dkranz: I think it's got to be malloc / free | 17:19 |
| dkranz | sdague: If the former than tenant cleanup is not to catch bugs but expected | 17:19 |
| dkranz | sdague: I don't 100% disagree but why? | 17:19 |
| sdague | because otherwise we can run into races where we hit high water marks inside of tests | 17:20 |
| sdague | we've actually had those races before | 17:20 |
| dkranz | sdague: But we already to gc at the class level which is the same as the tenant isolation level | 17:20 |
| dkranz | do | 17:20 |
| sdague | tenant isolation is not going to work for lots of real environments | 17:20 |
| afazekas | dkranz: With the new version the behavior on unexpected resource is configureable | 17:21 |
| dkranz | afazekas: I see | 17:21 |
| sdague | and if we turn it into just GC, then people won't fix the issues in the tests | 17:21 |
| sdague | which are totally fixable | 17:21 |
| sdague | so I am -2 on automated cleanup at the end of tests | 17:21 |
| sdague | test classes / tenants | 17:21 |
| sdague | because I want us to be doing this right in the code | 17:22 |
| mtreinish | yeah we shouldn't auto cleanup just report the issues (or fail) if there is a leak | 17:22 |
| afazekas | sdague: Are you ok with the clean + raise excpetion settings (default) | 17:22 |
| sdague | afazekas: for starting, I just want audit | 17:23 |
| sdague | and once we get clean, I'm ok with failing if we have leaked resources | 17:23 |
| sdague | but I don't want tempest doing failsafe brute force cleanup on class exit | 17:23 |
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| dkranz | sdague: I would be more comfortable if we did that | 17:23 |
| sdague | because we know that not all resources in openstack are actually discoverable | 17:23 |
| dkranz | sdague: that is unfortunate and I would call it a bug | 17:24 |
| sdague | especially a bunch of the network ones | 17:24 |
| sdague | dkranz: sure | 17:24 |
| afazekas | On successful run we do not leak mach | 17:24 |
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| sdague | afazekas: so build an audit report at the end of classes some how and pull that together | 17:25 |
| sdague | that will help us fix things for real | 17:25 |
| dkranz | sdague: Basically I think this is really important but we should decide the semantics up front | 17:25 |
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| sdague | sure | 17:25 |
| dkranz | afazekas: sounds good | 17:25 |
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| sdague | so mailing list thread is fine at this point | 17:25 |
| mtreinish | ok is there anything else on blueprints? | 17:25 |
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| mtreinish | otherwise let's move on to the next topic | 17:25 |
| afazekas | Just logging is also configurable .. | 17:25 |
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| mtreinish | #topic Neutron testing | 17:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:26 | |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: are your around? | 17:26 |
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| mlavalle | hi | 17:26 |
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| mtreinish | any updates on neutron testing | 17:27 |
| mlavalle | Review of api tests have continued | 17:27 |
| mlavalle | I sent a message to the ML with 6 tests that were close to merge | 17:27 |
| mlavalle | They all were reviewed by cores over the past 3 days, thanks you :-) | 17:27 |
| mlavalle | 2 of them merged and the other required chhanges | 17:28 |
| mlavalle | we have merged 12 api tests over the past 3 weeks | 17:28 |
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| mlavalle | I have also identified 5 tests that are abandones | 17:28 |
| mlavalle | I am contacting the authors to see if they have still bandwidth | 17:28 |
| mlavalle | if not, will reassign tests to someone else | 17:29 |
| mlavalle | all in all, good progress | 17:29 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: ok cool thanks | 17:29 |
| mlavalle | that's all I have | 17:29 |
| andreaf | mlavalle: this is only slightly related to neutron testing, but I think it worth mentioning | 17:29 |
| mlavalle | will continue pushing api tests reviews | 17:29 |
| * mlavalle listening | 17:30 | |
| andreaf | mlavalle: we have a run_ssh flag in tempest, which is turned off by default, so a number of API tests are not doing ssh checks. But all new tests are ignoring it. | 17:30 |
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| dkranz | andreaf: You mean ignoring it and doing ssh checks anyway? | 17:31 |
| andreaf | mlavalle: did you try turning that on in neutron devstack? I wonder if we should just remove the flag at all | 17:31 |
| mlavalle | andreaf: no, I haven't touched that flag | 17:31 |
| andreaf | dkranz: yes | 17:31 |
| afazekas | andreaf: after this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54318/ , I will rebase this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50337/ | 17:31 |
| andreaf | dkranz: it must be as one of the main gate issue is ssh failures | 17:31 |
| sdague | andreaf: so I believe that was because in some environments tempest can't route to the guests | 17:32 |
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| dkranz | Well obviously we need to be consistent about this | 17:32 |
| sdague | honestly, I'd be ok with just removing the flag if it's getting ignored so much. How terrible are things if we try to default it true? | 17:33 |
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| dkranz | sdague: I'd be ok with removal too but defaulting to true does not address the issue | 17:34 |
| andreaf | sdague: with nova networking we may need afakekas' patch to add floating IP to servers - but in a single node devstack not even that | 17:34 |
| sdague | dkranz: defaulting true first tells us how terrible the gate would collapse if we did that | 17:34 |
| sdague | it's more of a sniff to figure out if it's a truly terrible idea | 17:34 |
| afazekas | sdague: the current ssh_check code expects fixed ip connection, and password injection, so it needs be able to use at least floating_ip with neutron | 17:34 |
| dkranz | sdague: oh, that issue. I was talking about random tests failing if you set it to false if they are not checking | 17:34 |
| andreaf | sdague: I tried that long time ago and it wasn't going too well, but the remote client has much improved since | 17:35 |
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| sdague | afazekas: it won't handle cloud-init key injection? | 17:35 |
| sdague | ok, so honestly, I think this is probably a bigger issue than we want to bite of at this point in the release | 17:35 |
| afazekas | sdague: I will rebase it https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54318/ soon, it is able to handle | 17:36 |
| sdague | but I think we should have a summit session on this to make sure we have a solid approach | 17:36 |
| dkranz | What use is a cloud if a "user" (tempest) cannot access the created vms? | 17:36 |
| afazekas | sdague: the key injection is working | 17:36 |
| dkranz | sdague: Are suggesting we fix the tests that are ignoring the flag, or just ignore this issue for now? | 17:36 |
| afazekas | but the password (file injection) is not | 17:36 |
| sdague | dkranz: I suggest ignoring the issue for now | 17:36 |
| afazekas | but the cirros has default passwd as well | 17:36 |
| dkranz | sdague: works for me | 17:36 |
| sdague | and once the release happens, we sort out a consistent approach for this | 17:37 |
| dkranz | sdague: If some one fails due to not checking they may file a bug :) | 17:37 |
| afazekas | sorry this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50337/ | 17:37 |
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| sdague | yes, sure | 17:37 |
| dkranz | sdague: But that should have happened already it=f it was going to | 17:37 |
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| sdague | yep, we can fix things as hot bugs right now, I just don't want to handle the whole problem, as we've got enough to worry about with the release | 17:38 |
| andreaf | sdague: ok makes sense | 17:38 |
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| mtreinish | ok, I think we can move on the next topic | 17:38 |
| sdague | it would be good to get this cleaned up early in juno for sure though | 17:38 |
| andreaf | sdague: but was shall we do for new tests? | 17:38 |
| sdague | thanks andreaf for bringing it up | 17:38 |
| sdague | andreaf: use the run_ssh flag | 17:39 |
| sdague | as intended | 17:39 |
| mtreinish | #topic Heat testing | 17:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:39 | |
| mtreinish | so I think we covered this one in the bp topic | 17:39 |
| mtreinish | sdague: unless you had something to add | 17:39 |
| sdague | nope, all covered | 17:39 |
| mtreinish | ok then let's move on | 17:39 |
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| mtreinish | #topic Bugs | 17:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:40 | |
| mtreinish | so I saw that maurosr sent an email out the ML about the bug day | 17:40 |
| mtreinish | I think he was proposing we have the bug day next Wed. | 17:40 |
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| mtreinish | does anyone have any issues with that date? | 17:41 |
| sdague | nope, sounds good | 17:41 |
| mtreinish | ok cool so hopefully next week he'll have a summary of the bug day for the meeting | 17:41 |
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| mtreinish | let's move on to the next topic then | 17:42 |
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| mtreinish | oh unless someone wants to raise attention on a bug | 17:42 |
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| andreaf | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77602/ | 17:42 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: heh well I guess thats a queue for the next topic | 17:43 |
| andreaf | mtreinsh: nothing critical, it just need a +A then I can close the bug, very tiny review I promise | 17:43 |
| mtreinish | #topic Critical Reviews | 17:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:43 | |
| andreaf | mtreinish: ok sorry about that | 17:43 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77602/ | 17:43 |
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| mtreinish | so does anyone else have any reviews they would like to bring up? | 17:44 |
| sdague | andreaf: lgtm | 17:44 |
| andreaf | sdague: thanks | 17:44 |
| sdague | andreaf: I did find an earlier patch ended up dropping all the admin tests | 17:44 |
| sdague | so we lost 500 tests for a few days | 17:44 |
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| sdague | so just as an fyi, be careful in checking test counts in the runs with auth related patches | 17:45 |
| sdague | this one looks right, still 2200 tests run in tempest-full | 17:45 |
| sdague | it does make me think about the idea of instituting low water mark checking | 17:45 |
| andreaf | sdague: oh, thanks for letting me know, I'll be more careful | 17:46 |
| sdague | because we know that tempest full should run 2200 tests | 17:46 |
| sdague | so if it goes below 2000 | 17:46 |
| sdague | something is wrong | 17:46 |
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| andreaf | sdague: sounds good, but you need to tune that based on your tempest.conf -> number of skips | 17:46 |
| sdague | andreaf: yeh, more like for the gate | 17:47 |
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| sdague | I wouldn't implement it in tempest.conf, but in something else we call in the gate | 17:47 |
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| sdague | anyway, this is a good patch, thanks for doing all this disconnect work | 17:48 |
| sdague | any other reviews? | 17:48 |
| mtreinish | ok if there aren't any other reviews let's move on to the last topic on the agenda | 17:48 |
| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75411/ | 17:48 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75411/ | 17:49 |
| afazekas | It fixes low chance random gate issue | 17:49 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: ok, I'll take a look at it after the meeting | 17:50 |
| mtreinish | unless someone beats me to it | 17:50 |
| mtreinish | ok let's move on | 17:50 |
| mtreinish | #topic Running tempest as non-admin (dkranz) | 17:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Running tempest as non-admin (dkranz) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:50 | |
| mtreinish | dkranz: you're up | 17:50 |
| sdague | afazekas: looks good | 17:50 |
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| mtreinish | dkranz: ??? | 17:51 |
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| mtreinish | ok well if dkranz isn't around does anyone have anything to say about this topic? | 17:52 |
| andreaf | dkranz, mtreinish: while we wait for dkranz, I'd like to comment on this | 17:52 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: sure | 17:52 |
| andreaf | mtreinish: as part of the multi-auth bp, I shall change tenant isolation to support v3 | 17:53 |
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| andreaf | so it will be possible to create users and tenants within a domain | 17:53 |
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| andreaf | which only requires a domain admin, rather than an overall identity admin | 17:53 |
| afazekas | sounds good to me | 17:53 |
| andreaf | so with that in place it will be possible to get tenant isolation with a less powerful admin | 17:53 |
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| mtreinish | but you still need identity admin to create the domain | 17:54 |
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| mtreinish | oh nm I see what you're saying you specify a domain to run in | 17:54 |
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| andreaf | we can use the default domain which exists | 17:54 |
| sdague | andreaf: sounds very useful | 17:54 |
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| sdague | I still think we should support a fallback of "specify users you want me to use" and limit running to that many processes | 17:55 |
| andreaf | this is just one part of the story, there are many tests which rely on admin account for doing compute volume network stuff | 17:55 |
| afazekas | The question is: is it enough for everyone who want to run tempest as non-admin ? | 17:55 |
| mtreinish | yeah that'll be nice to enable running in parallel without an admin | 17:55 |
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| sdague | ok, so in the 5 minutes we have left, I want to just float the qa-specs gerrit repository idea for official | 17:56 |
| mtreinish | sdague: sure | 17:56 |
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| mtreinish | #topic qa-specs gerrit repository | 17:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "qa-specs gerrit repository (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:56 | |
| sdague | because I think we've had at least 3 different topics just in this meeting which should get a design for a blueprint | 17:56 |
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| sdague | and I think there is no time like the present to try this new idea | 17:57 |
| dkranz | I got booted out. | 17:57 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: We don't have a way to run tempest as non-admin and skip all admin tests, right? | 17:57 |
| sdague | so my suggestion is I get the repository set up | 17:57 |
| sdague | and we start doing these sorts of things there in review format | 17:58 |
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| mtreinish | dkranz: don't specify an admin in the config and the tests should get skipped | 17:58 |
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| sdague | dkranz: that's not true, because in one of andreaf's refactorings the admin tenant was lost | 17:58 |
| mtreinish | if they don't it's a bug | 17:58 |
| sdague | and we skipped 500 tests | 17:58 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah that's sounds fine to me | 17:58 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: ok, cool. I didn't know that. | 17:58 |
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| sdague | #info qa-specs repo to be created for blueprint design / discussion / approval | 17:59 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: well we're out of time... | 17:59 |
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| mtreinish | thanks everyone | 18:00 |
| mtreinish | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit on review.openstack.org is down for maintenance (revised eta to resume is 13:00 utc)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 13 18:00:05 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-03-13-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| sdague | yep, let's take it to -qa for anything remaining | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-03-13-17.00.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-03-13-17.00.log.html | 18:00 |
| andreaf | bye | 18:00 |
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| bdpayne_ | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 13 18:00:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bdpayne_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:00 |
| bdpayne_ | hi everyone | 18:00 |
| nkinder | hi all | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| malini1 | hello! | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne_ | #topic Roll Call | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:01 | |
| bdpayne_ | anyone else here today? | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne_ | ok, I'm sure that others will trickle in | 18:02 |
| bdpayne_ | #topic Agenda | 18:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:02 | |
| hyakuhei | I'm here | 18:02 |
| bdpayne_ | So, I'd like to say a few words about the election | 18:02 |
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| bdpayne_ | anything else people would like to discuss | 18:03 |
| bdpayne_ | ? | 18:03 |
| hyakuhei | I vote that we all abstain, leaving Bryan as the only viable leader. | 18:03 |
| nkinder | :) | 18:03 |
| bknudson | Bryan probably won't abstain | 18:03 |
| nkinder | I cna give an overall OSSN update | 18:03 |
| * bdpayne_ has already voted | 18:04 | |
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| bdpayne_ | ok, so election and OSSN | 18:04 |
| bdpayne_ | anything else? | 18:04 |
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| nkinder | there's been some interesting discussion around the keystone revocation vs. cache | 18:05 |
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| nkinder | might be worth some discussion to decide if it's OSSN worthy | 18:05 |
| bknudson | the auth_token cache would be an interesting discussion | 18:05 |
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| bdpayne_ | ok, sounds good | 18:06 |
| bdpayne_ | let's get rolling | 18:06 |
| malini1 | very interested in the keystone token stuff, do discuss | 18:06 |
| bdpayne_ | #topic Election | 18:06 |
| coasterz | Hi all ;) | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Election (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:06 | |
| bdpayne_ | So I've been busy putting together everything for the election | 18:06 |
| bdpayne_ | bottom line is that, everyone in the electorate should have received an email with details on how to vote | 18:06 |
| bdpayne_ | if you believe you should be allowed to vote, and didn't get an email... let me know | 18:06 |
| hyakuhei | I received an email a few minutes ago | 18:07 |
| bknudson | got the email | 18:07 |
| nkinder | me too | 18:07 |
| bdpayne_ | Also, I sent out an email yesterday with a link to a google doc | 18:07 |
| bdpayne_ | that showed who the active members where are how they received that designation | 18:07 |
| malini1 | me too | 18:08 |
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| bdpayne_ | what I found was interesting actually was the IRC meeting participation | 18:08 |
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| bdpayne_ | I wrote a script that shows how many meetings everyone participated in over the past year | 18:08 |
| bdpayne_ | in general, we have a core group of very active people | 18:09 |
| bdpayne_ | which is fantastic | 18:09 |
| bdpayne_ | anyway... bottom line is... GO VOTE :-) | 18:09 |
| bdpayne_ | any questions on the election? | 18:09 |
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| bknudson | thanks to those who stepped up! | 18:09 |
| bdpayne_ | if something comes up, just email me | 18:09 |
| malini1 | High Five to bdpayne and hyakuhei for creating this active inclusive community | 18:10 |
| bdpayne_ | :-) | 18:10 |
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| bdpayne_ | #topic OSSN | 18:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSSN (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:10 | |
| bdpayne_ | So what's the latest on the OSSN front? | 18:10 |
| nkinder | We got a few published last week, which lowered the queue | 18:10 |
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| hyakuhei | I'm very excitied about the gerrit stuff | 18:10 |
| nkinder | last I looked, we have 3 open issues and they are all assigned. Someone new to OSSNs stepped up to take on the Cinder one. | 18:11 |
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| hyakuhei | there's one embargoed one too | 18:11 |
| nkinder | hyakuhei: ok, is it being worked on? | 18:11 |
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| hyakuhei | Yes, though if someone has spare cycles for an OSSN we can bring them in | 18:12 |
| nkinder | hyakuhei: ok. Would you mind adding me to the issue? | 18:12 |
| malini1 | i have some spare cycles this coming week | 18:12 |
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| malini1 | embargo -- this that a horizon one | 18:13 |
| hyakuhei | I'll have to ok it with the owners but it should be ok. | 18:13 |
| hyakuhei | malini1: nope, something else | 18:13 |
| nkinder | For gerrit/git, it looks like I just need to ask infra to create the repo under the docs area. | 18:13 |
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| nkinder | That's on my list for this week, but Anne said that she's good with the plan to put it under docs. | 18:14 |
| nkinder | We're also discussing how to go about getting OSSNs into the security guide | 18:14 |
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| hyakuhei | great, so who do you ask - Monty? | 18:14 |
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| bknudson | into the security guide or just published on the web page. | 18:14 |
| nkinder | hyakuhei: I need to track down the right name... | 18:14 |
| hyakuhei | nkinder: The idea was always to thread OSSNs into the guide | 18:15 |
| bknudson | there's an #openstack-infra channel | 18:15 |
| nkinder | bknudson: we're talking about how to feed them back into the guides | 18:15 |
| hyakuhei | indeed, originally the idea was that the guide would be based on OSSNs | 18:15 |
| nkinder | I think we may want to change the form of them, but get the info into the manual if it's a general "here's how you should deploy" sort of thing. | 18:15 |
| bknudson | do we need a specific format? the Docbook XML or rst? | 18:16 |
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| nkinder | For issues that are addressed by new features or bug fixes, they would have a limited lifetime in the manual (whatever release is affected) | 18:16 |
| nkinder | bknudson: I was going to ask annegentle about that when we get to it. | 18:16 |
| hyakuhei | So I think at the moment 3-4 are referenced in the guide, they're just footnotes | 18:16 |
| bknudson | are we going to "import" existing OSSNs? | 18:17 |
| nkinder | bknudson: I think we should look at them. There are only 8, so it shouldn't be bad | 18:17 |
| hyakuhei | Sure - to my mind it's not a big problem to do, can be a quaterly task for the editors of the guide | 18:17 |
| nkinder | I know the live migration one I published last week should definitely get into the guide in some form | 18:17 |
| hyakuhei | Thread in a footnote and add the OSSN to an appendix perhaps? | 18:17 |
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| nkinder | hyakuhei: I think we want to go beyond that in some cases | 18:18 |
| nkinder | hyakuhei: for live migration, I think the chapter on compute should talk about it in detail | 18:18 |
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| hyakuhei | Absolutely, I'm describing that as a minimum | 18:18 |
| nkinder | hyakuhei: +1 | 18:18 |
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| hyakuhei | The token-cache issue could be another potential one that deserves some inches in the guide. | 18:19 |
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| hyakuhei | ...depending on the fix | 18:19 |
| nkinder | yes, one more thing before we switch topics to that | 18:19 |
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| malini1 | hyakuhei: time to create a blog/article for Stefano M for his weekly communique on the history and goals of OSSN/OSSA/OSSG .. this catches a broad audience, often times getting picked up and re-transmitted at companies, and include the kind of data that bdpayne unearthed recently in compiling election list | 18:19 |
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| nkinder | for the git repo, I've been keeping my personal repo up to date - https://github.com/nkinder/openstack-security-notes | 18:19 |
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| nkinder | I'm planning on using this as a seed for the official repo | 18:20 |
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| nkinder | it has all published OSSNs and templates | 18:20 |
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| hyakuhei | Good idea. | 18:20 |
| malini1 | nkinder: NICE | 18:20 |
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| nkinder | ok, enough on OSSNs from me | 18:20 |
| bdpayne_ | hyakuhei can you continue running the meeting... I just got a phone call that I have to take | 18:21 |
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| bdpayne_ | #topic Keystone Threat Assessment | 18:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone Threat Assessment (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:22 | |
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| bdpayne_ | I believe this was the other topic of discussion? | 18:22 |
| nkinder | no, it was the keystone auth_token cache vs. revocation | 18:22 |
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| bdpayne_ | oh, sorry | 18:22 |
| nkinder | related though I guess | 18:23 |
| bdpayne_ | #topic Keystone auth_token cache vs revocation | 18:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone auth_token cache vs revocation (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:23 | |
| * bdpayne_ is off the phone | 18:23 | |
| bdpayne_ | sorry about that guys | 18:23 |
| nkinder | So, this issue seems to be a balance issue to me | 18:23 |
| bdpayne_ | what's going on with the auth_cache stuff? | 18:23 |
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| nkinder | Much like PKI revocation checking, the deployer needs to think about what they are willing to live with | 18:23 |
| hyakuhei | So if I recall correctly, this affects both 'traditional' and pki tokens. | 18:24 |
| nkinder | I meant PKI in general | 18:24 |
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| nkinder | not as Keystone uses it | 18:24 |
| bknudson | there's separate cache configuration for PKI vs UUID | 18:24 |
| bknudson | the PKI path is to check the revoked tokens list | 18:24 |
| bknudson | the revoked tokens list is cached. the default for cache timeout was 1 second... it's recently been updated to 300 sec | 18:25 |
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| bknudson | the UUID path is to check the cache, and if it's not in the cache then validate directly to keystone | 18:25 |
| bknudson | so there's a cache for the UUID tokens. | 18:25 |
| nkinder | this seems like the same sort of thing as deciding how often CRLs are generated vs. using OCSP with an X.509 setup... a deployment choice | 18:26 |
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| bknudson | well, ... actually, I think both UUID and PKI tokens use the cache at first. | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, ++ | 18:26 |
| nkinder | so the default means that revocation won't be noticed for up to 5 minutes? | 18:26 |
| hyakuhei | in the worst-case yes | 18:26 |
| nkinder | ...and if you don't like it, you can make it smaller | 18:26 |
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| bknudson | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/OpenStackSecurity | 18:26 |
| bknudson | oops | 18:26 |
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| bknudson | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+bug/1287301 | 18:27 |
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| bknudson | so the defaults for both the caches are 300 seconds (5 mins) | 18:27 |
| bknudson | so if your token was validated, it's good for 5 mins | 18:27 |
| Shohel02 | yes but there are there is no check for cached token | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, perhaps the defaults are a bad assumption | 18:27 |
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| morganfainberg | nkinder, but it very clearly feels like a deployment choice | 18:27 |
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| bknudson | you can delete your token (invalidate it manually), and it'll still work for 5 mins | 18:27 |
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| bknudson | I guess part of the question is 5 mins a reasonable default. | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ | 18:28 |
| nkinder | everyone is going to have their own opinion on what is acceptable. Is it 5 minutes, 30 seconds, immediate? | 18:28 |
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| hyakuhei | Deployment dependant. To answer it you need to have a good understanding of how, why, when and how frequently you'll want to kill a token | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i think 5 minutes is excessively aggressive, but iirc that is what we assume is the closest in-sync we can be due to clock skew? | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | erm, s/aggressive/lax | 18:28 |
| hyakuhei | So, what are next steps here - one minute left on the meeting | 18:29 |
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| bknudson | I linked to the bug so if you have opinions you can bring them up there. | 18:30 |
| nkinder | is the default stuck as is for Icehouse? If so, we might want to mention in an OSSN | 18:30 |
| bdpayne_ | fwiw, I think that this sounds like a good use of an OSSN | 18:30 |
| nkinder | deciding if a smaller default is needed is going to be a longer debate I think | 18:30 |
| bdpayne_ | and I would get too caught up in what the default is | 18:30 |
| bdpayne_ | 300 sec seems fine | 18:30 |
| bdpayne_ | people will need to tune it regardless | 18:30 |
| bknudson | an OSSN makes sense to me. | 18:30 |
| bdpayne_ | at least that's my two cents | 18:30 |
| hyakuhei | +1 | 18:30 |
| bdpayne_ | ok, thanks everyone... nice meeting today | 18:31 |
| hyakuhei | It's the tradeoffs thatneed to be documented, not the literal time | 18:31 |
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| bknudson | thanks | 18:31 |
| bdpayne_ | don't forget to vote :-) | 18:31 |
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| bdpayne_ | #endmeeting | 18:31 |
| malini1 | bye | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit on review.openstack.org is down for maintenance (revised eta to resume is 13:00 utc)" | 18:31 | |
| Shohel02 | thanks | 18:31 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 13 18:31:48 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-03-13-18.00.html | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-03-13-18.00.txt | 18:31 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-03-13-18.00.log.html | 18:31 |
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| harlowja | #startmeeting openstack-state-management | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 13 20:00:36 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_state_management' | 20:00 |
| iv_m | hi there | 20:00 |
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| harlowja | hey | 20:00 |
| harlowja | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StateManagement | 20:00 |
| harlowja | don't think much of an agenda, just people coding and reviewing, nothing to urgent to talk about i think | 20:01 |
| harlowja | so maybe can just keep it short | 20:01 |
| changbl | hey | 20:01 |
| harlowja | changbl hey | 20:01 |
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| harlowja | for the exception stufss | 20:01 |
| harlowja | maybe thats a good small topic | 20:01 |
| harlowja | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80372/ | 20:02 |
| changbl | i checked nova's exceptions | 20:02 |
| harlowja | changbl is the part about why throw various exceptions over other exceptions the problem? | 20:02 |
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| harlowja | k | 20:02 |
| changbl | their exceptions are groups under prefix, for example, exception InvalidInput is subclass of exception Invalid | 20:03 |
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| changbl | making it easier to code write/read | 20:03 |
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| harlowja | sure, seems like we could do a little bit of adjustment as well if we want | 20:04 |
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| changbl | yes, that would make it easier | 20:04 |
| harlowja | maybe the following groups | 20:04 |
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| harlowja | 1. storage | 20:04 |
| harlowja | 2. jobs | 20:04 |
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| harlowja | 3. InvariantViolation (for any kind of generic invariant being violated) | 20:05 |
| harlowja | some of the other ones like NotFound or AlreadyExists seem ok to be seperate | 20:05 |
| harlowja | possibly ConnectionFailure also | 20:06 |
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| changbl | sounds good | 20:06 |
| harlowja | CorrelatedFailure is think is just to connect a exception to another exception, WrappedFailure is similar (wrapping many failures) | 20:07 |
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| harlowja | anyway changbl do u want to try that restructuring? | 20:07 |
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| harlowja | hopefully this doesn't break to many peoples :-/ | 20:07 |
| changbl | harlowja, maybe you do it and i will review? | 20:07 |
| harlowja | ok | 20:08 |
| changbl | as long as we don't change too many names:) | 20:08 |
| harlowja | sure | 20:08 |
| harlowja | will try not to :) | 20:08 |
| changbl | sounds good. let's move on | 20:09 |
| harlowja | k | 20:09 |
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| harlowja | #topic 0.2 reviews | 20:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "0.2 reviews (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)" | 20:09 | |
| harlowja | this isn't to much of a topic | 20:10 |
| harlowja | most of the reviews are just being reviewed :-P | 20:10 |
| harlowja | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/taskflow,n,z | 20:10 |
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| harlowja | so lets just keep on reviewing :) | 20:10 |
| harlowja | #topic cinder/glance requirements gathering | 20:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cinder/glance requirements gathering (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)" | 20:11 | |
| harlowja | so this is going slowly afaik, but going nonetheless | 20:11 |
| harlowja | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/taskflow-cinder | 20:11 |
| harlowja | i also started #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/taskflow-glance | 20:11 |
| harlowja | hopefully can meet up with the glance folks on IRC soon | 20:11 |
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| changbl | harlowja, schedule a meeting with them sometime? | 20:12 |
| harlowja | yup, working on it :) | 20:12 |
| changbl | +1 | 20:12 |
| harlowja | minimeeting WIP :) | 20:12 |
| harlowja | anyways, so keep on doing that | 20:13 |
| harlowja | *so will keep on working on that | 20:13 |
| harlowja | thats about all the topics i had, anyone have any need for new use-cases | 20:13 |
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| harlowja | or anything to open-discuss | 20:13 |
| harlowja | if not, quick meeting :) | 20:13 |
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| harlowja | goinng once | 20:14 |
| harlowja | twice | 20:15 |
| tinoue | hi | 20:15 |
| harlowja | hi there | 20:15 |
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| tinoue | i have a question | 20:16 |
| harlowja | tinoue sure | 20:16 |
| tinoue | Do you have a task-management session in Atlanta? | 20:16 |
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| harlowja | tinoue speaker session or design session? | 20:16 |
| harlowja | *different types of sessions | 20:16 |
| tinoue | design session! | 20:16 |
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| harlowja | i haven't put any up yet, but i think we should | 20:17 |
| harlowja | seems like http://summit.openstack.org/ is open | 20:17 |
| harlowja | so good idea tinoue lets do that | 20:17 |
| harlowja | i did like 3 or 4 last time, more are welcome | 20:17 |
| harlowja | especially if others want to do them ;) | 20:17 |
| tinoue | ok | 20:18 |
| harlowja | so maybe we can all start thinking about good design sessions ideas | 20:18 |
| harlowja | +2 to that :) | 20:18 |
| harlowja | tinoue thx for reminding | 20:18 |
| tinoue | :) | 20:19 |
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| harlowja | #action harlowja changbl iv_m + others think of design session ideas | 20:20 |
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| harlowja | cool, anything else to discuss? | 20:21 |
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| changbl | do we need to propose/register design sessions? | 20:21 |
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| harlowja | changbl i think its just a launchpad id | 20:23 |
| harlowja | which i think u already have | 20:23 |
| harlowja | i don't remember it being any other special registration | 20:23 |
| changbl | harlowja, ok | 20:24 |
| harlowja | sweet | 20:24 |
| harlowja | we can also put the ideas on an etherpad before summit to that page if we want | 20:24 |
| harlowja | either works, u can revise the submissions to summit.openstack.org afterwards afaik | 20:26 |
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| harlowja | k | 20:29 |
| harlowja | lets see | 20:29 |
| harlowja | anything else for folks :) | 20:29 |
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| harlowja | going once | 20:30 |
| harlowja | going twice | 20:31 |
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| harlowja | going thrice | 20:34 |
| harlowja | ok dokie, thx for coming folks | 20:34 |
| harlowja | #endmeeting | 20:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit on review.openstack.org is down for maintenance (revised eta to resume is 13:00 utc)" | 20:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 13 20:34:30 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_state_management/2014/openstack_state_management.2014-03-13-20.00.html | 20:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_state_management/2014/openstack_state_management.2014-03-13-20.00.txt | 20:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_state_management/2014/openstack_state_management.2014-03-13-20.00.log.html | 20:34 |
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| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 13 21:00:16 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:00 |
| russellb | hello, everyone! | 21:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 21:00 |
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| dripton | hi | 21:00 |
| alaski | hi | 21:00 |
| sandywalsh_ | o/ | 21:00 |
| cyeoh | hi | 21:00 |
| russellb | #topic icehouse-rc1 | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-rc1 (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| russellb | We're in a freeze, and the focus is on getting to our first release candidate | 21:01 |
| mriedem | hi | 21:01 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 21:01 |
| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 21:01 |
| russellb | RC1 can be released when that list ^^^ gets down to 0 | 21:01 |
| russellb | we should only have things on there that we feel should *block* the release | 21:01 |
| russellb | that should be regressions or otherwise high/critical bugs | 21:01 |
| mriedem | dansmith: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1290568 is marked as confirmed rather than in progress but more than half is merged | 21:02 |
| russellb | anything that is "nice to have" for icehouse should just be tagged with "icehouse-rc-potential" | 21:02 |
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| russellb | RC1 process sound good / make sense? | 21:02 |
| dansmith | mriedem: you're wrong | 21:02 |
| mriedem | o-) | 21:03 |
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| russellb | you can also find an RC burndown chart here: | 21:03 |
| russellb | #link http://old-wiki.openstack.org/rc/ | 21:03 |
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| russellb | dansmith: so what's the status of that one | 21:04 |
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| dansmith | the nova-network one? | 21:04 |
| russellb | yes | 21:04 |
| dansmith | one more +A needed | 21:04 |
| dansmith | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79716/ | 21:04 |
| russellb | ok, so should be in progress | 21:04 |
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| dansmith | I need to kick the last one | 21:05 |
| dansmith | russellb: it is, mriedem is just crazy | 21:05 |
| russellb | dansmith: approved | 21:05 |
| mriedem | 7/8 | 21:05 |
| russellb | hm, arosen not around | 21:05 |
| mikal | . | 21:05 |
| russellb | he's got a High bug not in progress yet | 21:06 |
| russellb | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1249065 | 21:06 |
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| arosen2 | hiya | 21:06 |
| russellb | arosen2: hey, reviewing icehouse-rc1 for nova | 21:06 |
| russellb | arosen2: you are assigned to https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1249065 which is targeted | 21:06 |
| russellb | arosen2: do you think that should block rc1? | 21:06 |
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| arosen2 | russellb: no i don't think this should be a blocker. I thought i had actually fixed this bug though it seems like it's poping up again. | 21:07 |
| russellb | looks like a bug that's just been carried along | 21:07 |
| russellb | ok | 21:07 |
| russellb | added to icehouse-rc-potential instead | 21:07 |
| arosen2 | I'll look into it though though in the meantime. But no blocker imo | 21:07 |
| arosen2 | cool | 21:08 |
| sdague | well, it's caused 8 gate resets today | 21:08 |
| russellb | so everything else is "in progress" | 21:08 |
| russellb | at least in theory | 21:08 |
| dansmith | sdague: it did? | 21:08 |
| sdague | http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/gate.html | 21:08 |
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| sdague | 8 fails in 24hrs / 25 fails in 14 days | 21:08 |
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| comstud | i'd like https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1292185 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1292181 targetted to rc1 | 21:08 |
| dansmith | oh this one | 21:08 |
| sdague | it's #4 on gate resets | 21:08 |
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| comstud | they have the potential tag on them | 21:08 |
| comstud | cells regressions due to move to objects | 21:08 |
| comstud | and a fix is up for review | 21:09 |
| russellb | if only we had better cells gate testing huh? :-p | 21:09 |
| comstud | so it'll probably land anyway, but | 21:09 |
| comstud | haha | 21:09 |
| comstud | well | 21:09 |
| comstud | this one requires some interesting testing | 21:09 |
| russellb | comstud: if they are regressions, yes, target away | 21:09 |
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| russellb | should bump to High prio | 21:09 |
| comstud | ok | 21:09 |
| comstud | i can't seem to target | 21:10 |
| russellb | are you a member of the nova-bugs team? | 21:10 |
| russellb | when's the last time you touched a bug? :-) | 21:10 |
| mriedem | comstud: done | 21:10 |
| comstud | nor change the Importance | 21:10 |
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| comstud | A while :) | 21:10 |
| mriedem | cripes | 21:10 |
| mriedem | before utah :) | 21:10 |
| russellb | comstud: https://launchpad.net/~nova-bugs | 21:10 |
| russellb | comstud: join that (open team) and you should be able to | 21:10 |
| mriedem | comstud: they are bumped and tagged | 21:10 |
| * mrodden lurks | 21:10 | |
| russellb | mriedem: thanks | 21:10 |
| comstud | done | 21:10 |
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| comstud | mriedem: thnx | 21:11 |
| russellb | any other RC1 impacting bugs we should discuss? | 21:11 |
| mriedem | i think this is rc1 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43822/ | 21:12 |
| mriedem | but it could probably drop to rc-potential | 21:12 |
| russellb | mriedem: it was on rc1, and i moved it to rc-potential | 21:12 |
| mriedem | ok | 21:12 |
| mriedem | cool | 21:12 |
| russellb | mainly because it's not a regression, and has a known workaround | 21:12 |
| mriedem | yeah, just got caught up | 21:12 |
| russellb | k, cool | 21:12 |
| mriedem | agree | 21:12 |
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| russellb | trying to be aggressive here on what stays on the list, as that's how we'll stay on top of Rc1 | 21:13 |
| mriedem | totally understand | 21:13 |
| russellb | would appreciate reviews against any of the targeted bugs | 21:13 |
| russellb | that should be review priority | 21:13 |
| russellb | and if you come across one that seems stalled, let me know | 21:13 |
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| russellb | so we can decide if we need to push it, or just drop it from the blocker list | 21:14 |
| tjones | there are a couple with no update in the last 6-7 days | 21:14 |
| russellb | tjones: know which ones off hand? | 21:14 |
| tjones | *looking* | 21:14 |
| russellb | tjones: just needs review? or response to feedback? | 21:14 |
| tjones | review not updated i think. still looking | 21:15 |
| tjones | it was in that pastebin i sent you earlier | 21:15 |
| tjones | i'll keep looking | 21:15 |
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| russellb | oh | 21:15 |
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| russellb | well, we can move on then | 21:16 |
| russellb | #topic open discussion | 21:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:16 | |
| russellb | feel free to bring up more RC impacting issues | 21:16 |
| russellb | or anything else at this point | 21:16 |
| russellb | mriedem: you had added something to the wiki i think? | 21:16 |
| jogo | dims_ has made great progress with libvirt | 21:16 |
| mriedem | oh yeah, looking | 21:16 |
| russellb | jogo: dims_ awesome | 21:17 |
| russellb | how's that going? | 21:17 |
| jogo | so we should hopefully be able to close out some long standing gate bugs | 21:17 |
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| mriedem | russellb: let me know when ready | 21:17 |
| tjones | russellb: it looks like you have already followed up on most of the ones i pointed out | 21:17 |
| russellb | tjones: yay | 21:17 |
| tjones | russellb: ill check them all and let you know | 21:18 |
| russellb | tjones: great, thanks! | 21:18 |
| russellb | mriedem: sure go ahead | 21:18 |
| mriedem | ok so a long while back this happened http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-May/008804.html | 21:18 |
| mriedem | that's about virt managers in openstack, i.e. vcenter, ovirt, etc | 21:18 |
| mriedem | powervc is a virt manager that ibm wants to get something into openstack to talk to it, | 21:18 |
| mriedem | and from utah, talking with comstud and dansmith it sounds like the way to do that is via some new architecture involving cells | 21:19 |
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| mriedem | and then vcenter could be moved there also, | 21:19 |
| mriedem | anyway, we have people that want to work on putting powervc driver code into stackforge but they have no idea what this new architecture idea is, nor do i, :) | 21:19 |
| mriedem | so am just bringing it up to see if it's something to talk about at summit, because if it's not i don't see it happening | 21:20 |
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| mriedem | that's it | 21:20 |
| mriedem | i've never been to a summit so i'm not sure how this all works | 21:20 |
| russellb | dansmith: comstud ^^^ | 21:20 |
| russellb | problem is .... we have a really high level idea, but nobody signed up to do it | 21:20 |
| dansmith | so, there is no new architecture, there have been proposals and ideas, | 21:20 |
| russellb | so we're stuck | 21:20 |
| dansmith | however, it seems like we all agree that exposing it as a virt driver is really really wrong | 21:20 |
| comstud | that's funny | 21:20 |
| russellb | so now we decide, block new things until it does get done? | 21:21 |
| mriedem | russellb: so i think the ibm people would work it, but they are new to the community and don't know what the ideas are | 21:21 |
| russellb | or let stuff in the "wrong" way? | 21:21 |
| mriedem | i think it's block | 21:21 |
| russellb | i'm worried new members would be in over their head on this | 21:21 |
| russellb | it's very much non-trivial | 21:21 |
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| dansmith | yeah, this is big time stuff | 21:21 |
| russellb | my gut anyway | 21:21 |
| mriedem | yeah, so i guess i'd have to be a middleman, which i already have been :( | 21:21 |
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| mriedem | but this team is spending a lot of time trying to clean up their existing driver to put it in stackforge and i've explained they are kind of wasting their time | 21:22 |
| russellb | it wouldn't hurt to talk through the idea at summit, and then see what happens | 21:22 |
| tjones | russellb: looks like this is the only one (so far) that could be removed. The review is abandoned https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1187679 | 21:22 |
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| mrodden | mriedem: probably have to study how cells works right now | 21:23 |
| russellb | tjones: indeed, removed | 21:23 |
| russellb | so ... | 21:23 |
| mriedem | russellb: comstud: dansmith: so part of the motivation is also that if powervc is the guinnea pig, and something can be worked, then vcenter could move that way also so we don't keep having this discussion, like here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79190/ | 21:23 |
| russellb | it'd be like cells rev2 | 21:23 |
| dansmith | mriedem: mrodden: doing it with current cells is wrong I think | 21:23 |
| russellb | or is it rev3? | 21:23 |
| dansmith | revN | 21:23 |
| comstud | i'd probably like to go into a summit thing with at least some sort of rough guess at a plan | 21:23 |
| dansmith | comstud: could you be a little less specific? :P | 21:23 |
| comstud | instead of "hey, we should do this and stuff" | 21:23 |
| comstud | hehe | 21:24 |
| dansmith | I guess there are two questions I think we need to answer: | 21:24 |
| * jogo wonders how this is RC related | 21:24 | |
| russellb | if we're blocking stuff on this, we have to communicate some more detail | 21:24 |
| dansmith | 1. Are we going to block new complicated systems acting like a virt driver (I hope so) | 21:24 |
| russellb | and at least give people a chance at it | 21:24 |
| russellb | jogo: we moved past that topic :) | 21:24 |
| mriedem | jogo: this is open discussion | 21:24 |
| russellb | re #1, yes | 21:24 |
| dansmith | and 2. Are we or is anyone going to work on devising a new plan for how those things fit in? | 21:24 |
| russellb | i hope so :) | 21:24 |
| dansmith | 1 can be yes and 2 can be no, I think, it just means we're not going to take on those new things | 21:24 |
| dansmith | and if 2 is yes, then we can talk about a plan | 21:25 |
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| russellb | right, at least document an architecture | 21:25 |
| russellb | and maybe someone will take it on . .. | 21:25 |
| russellb | i'm skeptical | 21:25 |
| mengxd | dansmith: looks like cell is one possible answer to 2, right? | 21:25 |
| mriedem | the upside to 2 though is if you do make it work for something new, you can theoretically move an existing pain point, vcenter, there | 21:25 |
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| jogo | so ironic is sorta similar to this whole thing | 21:25 |
| comstud | yes, ironic falls into this category as well | 21:25 |
| dansmith | mengxd: in it's current form, no | 21:25 |
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| jogo | and they are looking to get things in nova | 21:26 |
| dansmith | right, ironic, vcenter and powervc and then moving existing cells to this could be a possibility | 21:26 |
| jogo | devananda: ^ | 21:26 |
| mrodden | doesnt ironic re-implement the compute api but just for baremetal? | 21:26 |
| dansmith | no | 21:26 |
| comstud | no | 21:26 |
| mrodden | oh | 21:26 |
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| jogo | its a virt driver today | 21:26 |
| * mrodden should do his homework | 21:26 | |
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| comstud | it's a virt driver that talks to ironic API | 21:26 |
| comstud | (or it will be when it merges) | 21:26 |
| mrodden | so it is similar | 21:26 |
| dansmith | and nova-bm brought us the 1:n node concept, which is what vcenter does, and what I don't like | 21:27 |
| comstud | I think ironic can have an exception because there's a bare metal driver already | 21:27 |
| comstud | which it is replacing | 21:27 |
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| dansmith | an exception for now maybe, yeah, but if we end up with a new thing... | 21:27 |
| * jaypipes always gets a kick out of the name nova-bm. | 21:27 | |
| dansmith | vcenter has the same exception by that default | 21:27 |
| comstud | jaypipes: :) | 21:27 |
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| dansmith | jaypipes: it's funny because it's true | 21:27 |
| comstud | nova is one big bm | 21:27 |
| mrodden | lol... | 21:27 |
| jaypipes | isn't it ironic? | 21:27 |
| comstud | haha | 21:28 |
| dansmith | aaand, we lost it. | 21:28 |
| mriedem | right, so there are exceptions for 2 drivers right now | 21:28 |
| comstud | aaaand scene. | 21:28 |
| mriedem | if we want to move those, it sounds like this is the opporutnity | 21:28 |
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| mriedem | there are people willing to do the work if they can get guidance on an agreed to architecture | 21:28 |
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| dansmith | well, and if we do this right, we might be able to get this to help with our cells problem too | 21:28 |
| comstud | mriedem: Are these people going to write shitty code? | 21:28 |
| mriedem | comstud: possibly | 21:29 |
| dansmith | mriedem: people just willing to code isn't going to do it | 21:29 |
| comstud | sorry, maybe that was too blunt | 21:29 |
| dansmith | mriedem: we can't just give them an architecture and expect them to do it | 21:29 |
| mrodden | comstud: not really | 21:29 |
| mriedem | dansmith: yeah i know | 21:29 |
| mriedem | dansmith: but you and comstud know the most about this i think | 21:29 |
| jogo | dansmith: I agree about the exception, for ironic I don't think we should require this change. but rather require a rooadmap for it in the future | 21:29 |
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| russellb | based on history, i have a hard time seeing that this is going to actually get done | 21:29 |
| dansmith | I think it is totally okay for us to say that nobody has the ability and drive to do this right now | 21:29 |
| dansmith | jogo: not going to force them unless we have an alternative, of course | 21:30 |
| dansmith | jogo: and always a roadmap, for them and vcenter of course | 21:30 |
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| jogo | dansmith: yup yup | 21:30 |
| mrodden | i think that there is definitely a case for accommodating virt managers in OpenStack, and i think nova would be the place | 21:30 |
| russellb | long term goal with no real plan to get there | 21:30 |
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| dansmith | mriedem: yeah, and I'm real busy and comstud works like two hours a week, so.. :) | 21:30 |
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| mriedem | i know :( | 21:30 |
| mriedem | i blame comstud | 21:30 |
| comstud | russellb: i could probably get it done, but under no timeframe commitments. it'll happen as 2 all nighters some random time | 21:30 |
| dansmith | mriedem: yep | 21:31 |
| comstud | come on, it's like 3 hours at least. | 21:31 |
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| mengxd | dansmith: i'd like to spend good time on this topic. | 21:31 |
| comstud | 2 of them spent in meetings | 21:31 |
| dansmith | comstud: :P | 21:31 |
| russellb | comstud: heh, well would love for you to if you're able to make it a priority | 21:31 |
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| mriedem | i'm basically just looking for some agreement that this is something worth discussing at summit | 21:31 |
| mriedem | baby steps | 21:31 |
| comstud | russellb: doubtful.. i'd probably be overcommitting | 21:31 |
| comstud | you've seen what I've done for icehouse | 21:31 |
| russellb | comstud: heh, thanks for being honest | 21:31 |
| comstud | ie: nothing | 21:31 |
| dansmith | mriedem: if we do, I feel like we'd be dedicating an hour to agree to what we just did | 21:32 |
| russellb | comstud: you get a patch in? | 21:32 |
| mriedem | comstud: we'll wake you up when there are any eventlet patches | 21:32 |
| dansmith | mriedem: and time slots are really valuable at summit, | 21:32 |
| comstud | i did | 21:32 |
| russellb | yay | 21:32 |
| dansmith | mriedem: so it needs to be well-justified I think | 21:32 |
| russellb | so summit | 21:32 |
| comstud | i have some from november | 21:32 |
| comstud | and 1 yesterday :) | 21:32 |
| russellb | we're likely going ot have 1 day less than in the past | 21:32 |
| russellb | so bar will go up | 21:32 |
| sdague | dansmith: well, the question is would it tend to bring in other folks that might actually pitch in | 21:32 |
| comstud | bar tabs | 21:32 |
| dansmith | sdague: yes, we think it will, then that'd be worth it.. I'm very skeptical | 21:32 |
| dansmith | s/we/if we/ | 21:33 |
| mikal | russellb: so that's two days at the summit now? | 21:33 |
| sdague | I think that would be the only reason for a summit session, if we thought it would actually kick start something here | 21:33 |
| sdague | mikal: 3 days | 21:33 |
| russellb | mikal: 3 instead of 4 | 21:33 |
| dansmith | sdague: yeah | 21:33 |
| comstud | sdague: agree | 21:33 |
| russellb | mikal: since we're doing a cross project day | 21:33 |
| mriedem | sdague: +! | 21:33 |
| mriedem | because this is not only nova, it's also cinder and neutron | 21:33 |
| mriedem | powervc would be in them just like vcenter is | 21:33 |
| mriedem | summit would have cross-project people around | 21:33 |
| cyeoh | so we may think that the people who are capable of doing the cells work don't have the time to do it now. But can we find a path where we train some new people who are interested to get the skills required? | 21:33 |
| russellb | we're also ignoring the fact that i think powervc is silly in the first place | 21:34 |
| comstud | i'm not sure cells needs to be the first thing | 21:34 |
| russellb | even if we had this new thing ... | 21:34 |
| mriedem | russellb: so replace with ovirt | 21:34 |
| mriedem | or whatever virt manager | 21:34 |
| mriedem | foo manager | 21:34 |
| dansmith | comstud: well, if it ends up not solving the cells thing, then that would suck | 21:34 |
| cyeoh | comstud: what is the first thing? | 21:34 |
| russellb | nobody is trying to put ovirt in openstack | 21:34 |
| comstud | true true | 21:34 |
| dansmith | mriedem: I'm not sure I really think there *is* a strong place or need personally | 21:34 |
| comstud | cells maybe has the most requirements | 21:34 |
| mriedem | russellb: the idea was floated awhile back from this http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-May/008804.html | 21:34 |
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| russellb | mriedem: yeah, those folks disappeared after that summit session | 21:35 |
| dansmith | mriedem: ovirt was suggested/presented at a recent summit and very few people had any interest in such a thing, other than for migration | 21:35 |
| dansmith | like, before the mic hit the floor | 21:35 |
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| dansmith | and the room was packed with like four people in the audience | 21:35 |
| russellb | we have stuff that works, mostly | 21:35 |
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| russellb | could be better, but it works | 21:36 |
| russellb | and i think that's why it's not high on anyone's priority list | 21:36 |
| mriedem | this keeps coming up with vcenter blueprints and patches too, i feel like we just keep kicking this can down the road | 21:36 |
| russellb | and i don't think we're missing support for a system lots of people are dying to have | 21:36 |
| mriedem | i realize it's not high priority | 21:36 |
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| mriedem | but i feel like we're ignoring something that everyone knows isn't going away | 21:36 |
| dansmith | mriedem: well, vcenter is a real tough fit and it's only going to get worse as things like the races in the aging patch keep coming up | 21:36 |
| dansmith | mriedem: so I'm with you there | 21:36 |
| mriedem | right | 21:36 |
| mriedem | that's what i meant by something | 21:37 |
| russellb | but who's motivated to fix it? | 21:37 |
| dansmith | mriedem: and I'd like it to be fixed, for sure | 21:37 |
| sdague | yeh, the whole idea of putting a DLM inside the virt driver... ooof | 21:37 |
| mriedem | as in even during this meeting we're talking about regrets on vcenter and ironic | 21:37 |
| dansmith | mriedem: but there just doesn't seem to be inertia | 21:37 |
| mriedem | i'm trying :) | 21:37 |
| mengxd | i think we need to figure out a correct architecture and implemetation to solve this for the long run. | 21:37 |
| mriedem | oh lord i'm trying | 21:37 |
| dansmith | mriedem: sure, but not taking on any new ones and managing what we have is one strategy... not ideal, but we have people to do that at least | 21:37 |
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| russellb | dansmith: yes that's how i've been feeling | 21:38 |
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| dansmith | so, I guess my feeling is, | 21:38 |
| russellb | vcenter is the biggest most obvious one we need to support | 21:38 |
| russellb | so forget the rest, why do we need them? | 21:38 |
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| mriedem | ok, i guess i'm just trying to see if people are even willing to consider talking about this at summit | 21:38 |
| dansmith | I'd rather manage what we have now, maybe let comstud iterate on some ideas with no timeline and if something looks promising we can adopt a plan | 21:38 |
| dansmith | mriedem: I don't think it's worth an hour, personally | 21:38 |
| dansmith | mriedem: how about the next mid-cycle meeting? | 21:38 |
| russellb | mriedem: if we have time sure, i'm worried the outcome is just the same old "we can see a better way, but nobody willing/able to do it" | 21:39 |
| dansmith | the mid-cycle ones are much easier to plan a talk, and if it's five minutes, move on to something else | 21:39 |
| dansmith | harder to do that at summit | 21:39 |
| russellb | heh, not even an hour | 21:39 |
| russellb | 40 minutes | 21:39 |
| mriedem | mid-cycle is better than nothing | 21:39 |
| russellb | IIRC | 21:39 |
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| dansmith | russellb: 40 minutes that always runs into 59 :) | 21:39 |
| comstud | looking forward to gutting nova-compute. | 21:39 |
| russellb | but yeah | 21:39 |
| mriedem | juno would be a wash, but it sounds like it probably would be anyway for this idea | 21:39 |
| russellb | until there's something concrete, not sure what to talk about | 21:39 |
| dansmith | yep | 21:39 |
| russellb | "we should do this" "yep" | 21:39 |
| sdague | mriedem: I think if you can find someone to sign up to spear head this in advance, it would sway things | 21:40 |
| mriedem | sdague: that's mengxd | 21:40 |
| dansmith | s/w/c/ | 21:40 |
| mriedem | mengxd: ^ | 21:40 |
| mriedem | welcome | 21:40 |
| russellb | orly | 21:40 |
| mengxd | yes, i will be happy to take this task | 21:40 |
| russellb | well, write up a proposal and post to the upcoming nova-specs git repo for review :-) | 21:40 |
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| mengxd | ok | 21:41 |
| mriedem | he's gonna need some kind of input from comstud and dansmith though on what their existing ideas are | 21:41 |
| mriedem | i mean i tried following in utah on the topic and was lost | 21:41 |
| dansmith | mriedem: well, we can try, but between now and summit I have nary a free minute planned I think | 21:41 |
| mriedem | plus there were breadsticks | 21:41 |
| russellb | dansmith: i guess you guys could write up a summary of that topic from utah | 21:41 |
| comstud | there were breadsticks | 21:41 |
| comstud | tasty breadsticks | 21:41 |
| russellb | nom | 21:41 |
| mriedem | dansmith: i understand, i wouldn't expect this to be a top priority, would just be good to brain dump a bit | 21:42 |
| mriedem | and then let people pick at it | 21:42 |
| sdague | I think the important thing to remember about summit sessions is they are the middle of the conversation, not the beginning | 21:42 |
| beagles | man that sounds really gross | 21:42 |
| dansmith | the picking and discussion is time-consuming too, you know | 21:42 |
| sdague | so some real pieces need to be done first, otherwise the summit session isn't really useful | 21:42 |
| dansmith | the rush here only comes from the newly proposed integrated systems, right? | 21:43 |
| mriedem | dansmith: yeah, i'm saying anything is appreciated | 21:43 |
| russellb | dansmith: right | 21:43 |
| russellb | dansmith: ones that i'm not sure we actually care about | 21:43 |
| russellb | so where's the motivation? | 21:43 |
| dansmith | I mean, the thing is, if we're already skeptical that we'd take anything powervc-related, then the pressure to spend time on this goes totally away | 21:43 |
| dansmith | right, exactly | 21:43 |
| mengxd | :sdague agree, the key thing is to make progress on the right path | 21:43 |
| mriedem | russellb: dansmith: i think it would also apply to zvm | 21:44 |
| mriedem | ibm tried doing something with that in havana and it dropped out | 21:44 |
| russellb | the way vcenter works today kinda sucks, but honestly, i think we have more important fish to fry | 21:44 |
| dansmith | mriedem: which I have no interest in taking either | 21:44 |
| cyeoh | perhaps we can aim for something even lower - a path to help get more people who are interested in this area to get the skill/knowledge they need? | 21:44 |
| mriedem | i think they are looking for the same path forward | 21:44 |
| russellb | mriedem: yeah not sure we care about that either | 21:44 |
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| dansmith | mriedem: it is a force-fit at best, and the last few rounds weren't even close to reasonable, implementation-wise | 21:45 |
| mrodden | ibm will expend the effort either way i'm sure | 21:45 |
| russellb | cyeoh: gain a deep understanding of how nova works, and what problems we face today with existing systems | 21:45 |
| mrodden | in community or out | 21:45 |
| dansmith | we need to be pretty careful about taking on drivers to satisfy ticky marks | 21:45 |
| russellb | the same way we got that knowledge, diving in | 21:45 |
| russellb | mrodden: it's not just IBM effort | 21:45 |
| russellb | there's a significant -core drain when we consider something for inclusion | 21:45 |
| sdague | yeh, there will be a ton of core review time pulled into something like this | 21:46 |
| russellb | review, ongoing maintenance | 21:46 |
| dansmith | we told hawai (sp?) no to their driver too, | 21:46 |
| russellb | and oracle | 21:46 |
| dansmith | because we don't think there is a large enough user base to take on the responsibility | 21:46 |
| dansmith | and oracle | 21:46 |
| russellb | and freebsd | 21:46 |
| mrodden | ic | 21:46 |
| dansmith | and that | 21:46 |
| russellb | for different reasons, but yeah | 21:46 |
| sdague | so I think if someone is spear heading this that's new, they also need to bring additional help to the rest of the problems we're trying to solve in nova | 21:46 |
| russellb | same ol' gain deep influence and understanding of the project story | 21:47 |
| dansmith | having someone plan to jump into nova, learn enough to just implement this thing is far from realistic | 21:47 |
| sdague | which is also a great way to understand nova | 21:47 |
| dansmith | right, that | 21:47 |
| mriedem | sure that's fair | 21:47 |
| russellb | spend a year+ doing other stuff so you learn this crazy beast | 21:47 |
| russellb | and then we can talk, probably | 21:47 |
| russellb | can't spoon feed it | 21:47 |
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| mrodden | oh, but we have tried... | 21:48 |
| dansmith | the same way anyone gets a major feature into nova is spend a year building familiarity, influence, context and then push for $BIG_RADICAL_CHANGE | 21:48 |
| mriedem | yeah so for now the powervc stuff will just go up in stackforge and be worked like a virt driver i think, then i guess we see where things go from there | 21:48 |
| mriedem | that was the plan when we removed powervm anyway | 21:48 |
| russellb | dansmith: yup | 21:48 |
| mriedem | maybe as that team works on it more they'll get into nova and it'll be magic | 21:48 |
| dansmith | mriedem: yep | 21:49 |
| russellb | right, and i personally think 3rd party addons on stackforge are perfectly reasonable | 21:49 |
| russellb | have at it | 21:49 |
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| mriedem | ok, i'm satisfied | 21:49 |
| russellb | use CI to make sure you stay current with unstable APIs | 21:49 |
| dansmith | woo | 21:49 |
| dansmith | progress | 21:49 |
| mriedem | yup, 3rd party CI is planned | 21:49 |
| russellb | it's highly visible in the community, uses the same dev tools | 21:49 |
| russellb | doesn't train the core of nova | 21:49 |
| mriedem | yup, gerrit, etc | 21:49 |
| russellb | really a good setup | 21:49 |
| mriedem | yeah | 21:49 |
| mriedem | agreed | 21:49 |
| mriedem | ok, thanks for all the time on this | 21:49 |
| russellb | s/train/drain/ | 21:49 |
| russellb | sure | 21:50 |
| russellb | 10 minutes left, anything else? | 21:50 |
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| * mrodden wonders what the restrictions on putting things in stackforge is... | 21:50 | |
| mrodden | seems to be pretty loose | 21:50 |
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| dansmith | I think so, | 21:51 |
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| dansmith | but this is definitely in the realm of reasonable things | 21:51 |
| jogo | russellb: yeah one last thing: it would be nice if we start trying to get rid of stacktraces for expected failures | 21:51 |
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| mrodden | yeah "related OpenStack projects" or something is in the description | 21:51 |
| jogo | definitly not a high priority but a good thing for icehouse | 21:52 |
| mikal | Juno you mean? | 21:52 |
| dansmith | jogo: you wanna say something about partial-ncpu? | 21:52 |
| russellb | Juno sure | 21:52 |
| russellb | icehouse focus needs to be the RC blocker list :) | 21:52 |
| jogo | so if people have cylces to squash staktraces | 21:52 |
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| jogo | dansmith: sure | 21:52 |
| cyeoh | jogo: should we have a holding blueprint for those sorts of fixes? I do them in a sort of an adhoc individual bug basis | 21:53 |
| dansmith | basically, jogo is awesome, EOM | 21:53 |
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| jogo | as many of you have noticed we have had this test grenade*partial-ncpu that as been failing for a long time | 21:53 |
| jogo | the test upgrades everything but nova-comptue to make sure we support the rolling upgrade process. | 21:53 |
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| jogo | the final patches for that job are in flight and we hope to turn it on early next week | 21:53 |
| jogo | on=gating | 21:53 |
| russellb | cyeoh: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/clean-logs | 21:53 |
| dansmith | +1x10^6 | 21:53 |
| russellb | +1 :) | 21:54 |
| russellb | thanks guys! | 21:54 |
| russellb | that's huge | 21:54 |
| sdague | yeh, nice job jogo | 21:54 |
| cyeoh | russellb: ah, thanks! | 21:54 |
| jogo | if the gate didn't get backed up we would have this in already | 21:54 |
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| jogo | so icehouse should be the first release where we can say | 21:54 |
| comstud | jogo: nice! | 21:55 |
| jogo | you can run havana and icehouse nova-computes side by side | 21:55 |
| dansmith | yes, I'm very much looking forward to that | 21:55 |
| russellb | dansmith: you should do a blog post that describes the upgrade process we support now | 21:55 |
| jogo | which is pretty mind boggling sweet | 21:55 |
| mrodden | nice | 21:55 |
| jogo | russellb: ++ to dan writting something | 21:55 |
| dansmith | russellb: was planning on it, thanks for spoiling! | 21:55 |
| russellb | heh | 21:55 |
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| russellb | so i think work toward this started in folsom | 21:55 |
| mikal | Quick, everyone write one before dansmith | 21:55 |
| russellb | 2 years | 21:55 |
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| jogo | so at the summit hopefully we can start thinking about what the next step is | 21:56 |
| jogo | for gating upgrade support | 21:56 |
| dansmith | agreed | 21:56 |
| jogo | perhaps the DB data migrations in the background | 21:56 |
| dansmith | we have other things nova needs to do to make this even better, but more gating would be great too | 21:56 |
| dansmith | yes, that for sure | 21:56 |
| mikal | I'd like to see multinode gating in Juno as well as an aside | 21:56 |
| dansmith | me too | 21:56 |
| russellb | mikal: would be nice, yes | 21:56 |
| dansmith | a lot. | 21:56 |
| jogo | mikal: and I would like a ferrari | 21:56 |
| dansmith | heh | 21:57 |
| mikal | jogo: don't be so negative | 21:57 |
| sdague | yeh, we have a loose idea on how to do multinode allocations | 21:57 |
| dansmith | sdague: make it happen man | 21:57 |
| russellb | i'd like what we test now to be reliable too :) | 21:57 |
| sdague | but it will need a couple of folks | 21:57 |
| comstud | ferrari on wishlist isn't negative | 21:57 |
| jogo | sdague: oh exciting, also tirpleo is doing it the hard way too | 21:57 |
| dansmith | sdague: honestly, I have no idea what you do all day | 21:57 |
| sdague | and a bunch more quota | 21:57 |
| sdague | :P | 21:57 |
| mikal | sdague: I can lend you at least one person for that | 21:57 |
| sdague | mikal: awesome | 21:58 |
| dansmith | human trafficking now.. awesome | 21:58 |
| sdague | that should be a good summit session actually | 21:58 |
| jogo | sdague: human trafficking? | 21:58 |
| russellb | heh, inappropriate, guys. | 21:58 |
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| mrodden | well this degraded quickly.... | 21:59 |
| dansmith | hah | 21:59 |
| russellb | anything else? | 21:59 |
| russellb | 1 minute | 21:59 |
| dansmith | my fault | 21:59 |
| comstud | for shame | 21:59 |
| russellb | quick, end on something positive | 21:59 |
| dansmith | ICEHOUSE | 21:59 |
| russellb | YEAH! | 21:59 |
| mrodden | go team | 21:59 |
| comstud | 42 | 21:59 |
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| russellb | nova rocks, love working with you all | 22:00 |
| jogo | \o/ | 22:00 |
| mikal | You have nice hair | 22:00 |
| russellb | thanks for your time everyone :) | 22:00 |
| comstud | lol | 22:00 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit on review.openstack.org is down for maintenance (revised eta to resume is 13:00 utc)" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 13 22:00:21 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-03-13-21.00.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-03-13-21.00.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-03-13-21.00.log.html | 22:00 |
| comstud | your hair really compliments your eyes | 22:00 |
| russellb | mikal: you win the creepy comment award | 22:00 |
| mikal | And stops the top of your head from being so shiney | 22:00 |
| mikal | russellb: yay! | 22:00 |
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| dansmith | devananda: all very future stuff, nothing that impacts you and ironic any time soon | 22:18 |
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