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| jlibosva | hello | 12:59 |
|---|---|---|
| akamyshnikova | hi | 12:59 |
| mestery | o/ | 12:59 |
| rpodolyaka | o/ | 12:59 |
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| HenryG | Hi all! | 13:00 |
| HenryG | (Hoping to see salv-orlando and markmcclain here soon) | 13:01 |
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| HenryG | Let's get started and hope they show up | 13:02 |
| HenryG | #startmeeting neutron_db | 13:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 13:02:34 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is HenryG. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:02 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_db' | 13:02 |
| HenryG | #topic Introduction | 13:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduction (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:02 | |
| HenryG | salv-orlando has called into question the need for this weekly meeting and forming a "subteam". | 13:03 |
| HenryG | The TC identified the Neutron DB migrations has the #0 priority Gap (higher than the #1 priority Gap) for nova-network parity. | 13:03 |
| HenryG | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Neutron_Gap_Coverage | 13:03 |
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| HenryG | We need to make sure this work gets done correctly and on time. | 13:03 |
| HenryG | I agree it's not really a subteam. If we are efficient the meetings and "subteam" can be dissolved soon. | 13:03 |
| mestery | I think a sub-team operating until #0 is fixed is warranted HenryG. | 13:03 |
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| HenryG | Sure. Let's keep the red tape to a minimum though. | 13:04 |
| HenryG | I'll try to stay out of everyone's way while tracking progress and removing obstacles where I can. | 13:04 |
| HenryG | Do not wait on me or postpone work until the next meeting if there is something that needs to be hashed out. | 13:05 |
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| HenryG | Please use the mailing list and IRC effectively. | 13:05 |
| HenryG | Allright, let's go through the agenda. | 13:05 |
| HenryG | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronDB#Agenda | 13:05 |
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| HenryG | #topic Plan/Design | 13:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Plan/Design (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:05 | |
| HenryG | The plan we discussed at the summit is written in the etherpad | 13:05 |
| HenryG | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-db-migrations | 13:05 |
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| HenryG | I am writing a spec for the work. | 13:06 |
| HenryG | #action HenryG to write a spec and submit to neutron-specs. | 13:06 |
| jlibosva | oh, I was active and tried to write it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95738/ | 13:06 |
| HenryG | It is not clear to me what the final design will be. | 13:06 |
| akamyshnikova | I've got some drafts on this topic. | 13:06 |
| jlibosva | it's really a very first draft though | 13:06 |
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| HenryG | jlibosva: Great! No problem. We can use yours. We'll build on it until it is OK. | 13:07 |
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| akamyshnikova | I create a kind of plan where are shown some options #link https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/10p6JKIQf_rymBuNeOywjHiv53cRTfz5kBg8LeUCeykI/edit | 13:08 |
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| HenryG | Sorry I missed it. My laptop was stolen and I lost track of some happenings in the community for a week or so. | 13:08 |
| HenryG | akamyshnikova: Thanks for that! | 13:09 |
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| HenryG | So let's continue discussing on the ML and IRC about those options. | 13:10 |
| rpodolyaka | akamyshnikova: 2 looks hard to implement (as you would need to write this non-trivial conditional logic in SQL) | 13:10 |
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| rpodolyaka | akamyshnikova: we could probably assume we stick to online migrations for this one | 13:10 |
| rpodolyaka | akamyshnikova: 1 is doable, but I don't think we should go through all these steps | 13:11 |
| akamyshnikova | I created some test changes too. But today I was told about one more option that I didn't check how to use, it is number 3 in the list, but it could be the best decision. | 13:11 |
| rpodolyaka | as still you would need to compare every single column of every single table and do an 'update' (which can be: change type, change default value, etc) | 13:11 |
| HenryG | Excuse my ignorance, but other than developers, who uses offline migrations? | 13:12 |
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| rpodolyaka | HenryG: in theory, DBAs :) | 13:12 |
| rpodolyaka | akamyshnikova: so what I'm trying to say here is that all this is already implemented in alembic | 13:12 |
| rpodolyaka | so alembic provides support for autogeneration of migration scripts | 13:13 |
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| rpodolyaka | it basically takes your metadata (which you defined in terms of model definitions) and compares it to the current state of the database | 13:13 |
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| rpodolyaka | (it reflects the DB schema by the means of SQLAlchemy) | 13:13 |
| rpodolyaka | then it compares two SQLAlchemy MetaData instances and generate a list of differences | 13:14 |
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| rpodolyaka | new indexes, new tables, changes of types, default values, etc | 13:14 |
| jlibosva | rpodolyaka: will autogenerate work after removing register_models() ? | 13:14 |
| jlibosva | rpodolyaka: sorry, stupid question. Disregard | 13:14 |
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| rpodolyaka | jlibosva: yep, it has nothing to do with it | 13:14 |
| akamyshnikova | rpodolyaka, yeah, I see this. I think I will research this option tomorrow. | 13:15 |
| rpodolyaka | then, for each difference it generates a corresponding alembic operation | 13:15 |
| rpodolyaka | op.alter_column(), op.create_constraint(), etc | 13:16 |
| rpodolyaka | I think, this will cover 90% of problems we have | 13:16 |
| rpodolyaka | there is probably just a few cases left | 13:16 |
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| rpodolyaka | e.g. ENUMs in PostgreSQL (AFAIK, these are not reflected by SQLAlchemy) | 13:16 |
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| rpodolyaka | not sure if have migrations changing ENUMs though | 13:17 |
| rpodolyaka | so I'd try to use alembic for this first | 13:17 |
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| HenryG | rpodolyaka: And it will generate a "downgrade" too, for those who chicken out and want to go back? | 13:17 |
| rpodolyaka | HenryG: haven't checked that, but probably yes | 13:17 |
| akamyshnikova | rpodolyaka, there are migrations that change enums | 13:18 |
| jlibosva | aren't all/most of current migration scripts created by autogenerate? | 13:19 |
| rpodolyaka | akamyshnikova: ah... so we should either add fixes for those manually or teach SQLAlchemy/alembic how to treat ENUMs | 13:19 |
| rpodolyaka | jlibosva: yep | 13:19 |
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| HenryG | How does this fit with salv-orlando's idea here: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-May/035567.html ? | 13:19 |
| rpodolyaka | I like salv-orlando's idea that this should be done in a migration script rather than by a separate call | 13:21 |
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| HenryG | There are many good ideas, but we need to converge. | 13:21 |
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| rpodolyaka | should not be a problem, but I'll need to take a look at alembic API first. there are a few cases, when you have to call alembic commands instead of doing calls programatically from Python | 13:22 |
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| jlibosva | it could be a separate executable module with ability to import and re-use in neutron-db-manage | 13:22 |
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| jlibosva | this way you can heal on demand and be part of automatic upgrade | 13:23 |
| rpodolyaka | fwiw, this is just my two cents. I believe, this will be easier to implement than write schema comparison from scratch | 13:23 |
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| akamyshnikova | I think that I need to look deeply in alembic. | 13:24 |
| HenryG | rpodolyaka: It certainly makes sense to me. | 13:24 |
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| rpodolyaka | we use alembic to do schema comparison in oslo-db so that we can show differences between your models definitions and migration scripts | 13:25 |
| HenryG | #action rpodolyaka, akamyshnikova, jlibosva to investigate and propose solution using alembic for schema comparison and base script. | 13:26 |
| akamyshnikova | this script is used in my work about sync models and migrations | 13:26 |
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| rpodolyaka | so far it worked good for us (just a few tweaks needed, e.g. tell it to compare server default values, or tell it that TINYINT(1) is a valid BOOLEAN column for MySQL, and things like that) | 13:26 |
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| HenryG | Let's keep everyone in the loop with discussions in the ML and IRC. | 13:26 |
| rpodolyaka | ML is probably easier to follow | 13:27 |
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| akamyshnikova | I've another big question. What should we do with new migrations that appear in Neutron? Should they be unconditional from very beginning? | 13:28 |
| HenryG | akamyshnikova: My understanding is that we want to start that now. | 13:29 |
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| rpodolyaka | +1 | 13:29 |
| jlibosva | -1. I don't think so. They would fail because most of them are dependent on previous migrations. | 13:29 |
| HenryG | akamyshnikova: By "now" I mean from Icehouse. | 13:29 |
| jlibosva | it will break deployment with devstack | 13:29 |
| rpodolyaka | jlibosva: hmm, what would it break new deployments? | 13:30 |
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| jlibosva | e.g. you deploy neutron with ml2 and someone makes a change in column for other specific plugin. Table would be missing, migration will fail | 13:31 |
| jlibosva | because this particular migration would be executed | 13:31 |
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| akamyshnikova | If it should be started from now. I think that it should be announced for everyone. | 13:32 |
| jlibosva | I'd suggest to keep conditional migrations for now until we have something that brings idempotent operation above db | 13:32 |
| rpodolyaka | won't we runn ALL migrations unconditionally? | 13:33 |
| HenryG | My understanding is you would have the old conditional migrations until Icehouse. Then the healing script. Then all tables will be present and all migrations from Icehouse on are unconditional. | 13:33 |
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| jlibosva | since we want to get rid of conditional migration, there will be other patch removing conditions themselves. | 13:33 |
| akamyshnikova | jlibosva, where you find such changes of columns? | 13:33 |
| jlibosva | HenryG: agreed, question is what to do with current patches coming to master | 13:34 |
| HenryG | jlibosva: If I understood Mark correctly, we "undo" them and replace them with unconditional ones. | 13:34 |
| HenryG | We undo the ones that are committed in the Juno cycle. | 13:35 |
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| jlibosva | yes, that was my idea. But not starting using '*' in all patches going to master | 13:35 |
| HenryG | Once we have laid down the code for uncondtional migrations, we no longer allow patches with conditional migrations. | 13:35 |
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| jlibosva | e.g. https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/db/migration/alembic_migrations/versions/35c7c198ddea_lbaas_healthmon_del_status.py#L46 if lbaas is not present, patch like this won't pass deployment | 13:36 |
| jlibosva | HenryG: agreed | 13:36 |
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| akamyshnikova | yes, in this case. But if some new tables create? | 13:38 |
| jlibosva | akamyshnikova: you mean not using "if not migration.should_run(active_plugins, migration_for_plugins):" at all? | 13:39 |
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| jlibosva | akamyshnikova: if so, then I agree. It's a good thing. Good poing. | 13:39 |
| jlibosva | point | 13:39 |
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| akamyshnikova | If some new tables created - yes | 13:40 |
| jlibosva | ok, +1 | 13:40 |
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| HenryG | I would like to move on in the agenda. | 13:41 |
| akamyshnikova | of course if migration is changing table it should be conditional for now. | 13:41 |
| HenryG | We can discuss more at the end or in the ML/IRC. | 13:41 |
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| akamyshnikova | ok | 13:41 |
| HenryG | #topic Blueprints | 13:42 |
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| HenryG | What blueprints do we have? Here is one: | 13:42 |
| HenryG | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-robust-db-migrations | 13:42 |
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| jlibosva | HenryG: here is my draft https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95738/ | 13:42 |
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| akamyshnikova | this should be updated neutron-robust-db-migrations | 13:43 |
| HenryG | jlibosva: "Blueprint" vs. "Spec". :) | 13:43 |
| akamyshnikova | as it was only for service plugins | 13:43 |
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| jlibosva | HenryG: aha, it's difference. sorry :) | 13:43 |
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| akamyshnikova | I can do that tomorrow. If there is no other bp | 13:43 |
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| HenryG | I think one spec is enough, but it may refer to a couple of blueprints. | 13:44 |
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| HenryG | I think we need a blueprint for the healing script. | 13:45 |
| HenryG | #action HenryG to file BP for healing script. | 13:46 |
| HenryG | #topic Testing | 13:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Testing (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:46 | |
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| HenryG | Currently there is no unit testing for migrations. | 13:46 |
| HenryG | But akamyshnikova is syncing some framework for this from oslo. | 13:46 |
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| HenryG | #link https://review.openstack.org/76519 | 13:46 |
| HenryG | Let's see if we can use this to improve migration unit testing. | 13:46 |
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| HenryG | I will discuss the "if and how" of functional testing with marun after the meeting. | 13:47 |
| HenryG | #action HenryG to discuss functional testing with marun. | 13:47 |
| HenryG | Most important in the topic of testing is tempest, specifically grenade coverage. | 13:47 |
| HenryG | Can someone summarize the current status and plan? jlibosva? | 13:47 |
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| jlibosva | currently icehouse->master is broken. There are two issues I'm aware of. | 13:48 |
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| jlibosva | there is an issue with mounting some image for swift, probably because some neutron service is not stopped. I have a testing patch for getting more info https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94351/ | 13:49 |
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| jlibosva | second issue is probably more reproducible wrt policy - I don't know much about this yet, looked at it yesterday afternoon: http://logs.openstack.org/79/95479/2/check/check-grenade-dsvm-neutron/89b999e/logs/new/screen-q-svc.txt.gz?#_2014-05-26_10_49_46_452 | 13:49 |
| jlibosva | if someone is familiar with such an error, I would be glad to get help | 13:50 |
| HenryG | jlibosva: Will the conversion to unconditional migrations help to fix these? | 13:50 |
| jlibosva | HenryG: I don't think so. It's rather related to Neutron configuration than db | 13:50 |
| HenryG | jlibosva: OK, thanks. | 13:51 |
| jlibosva | Also I see time to time failure on stable/icehouse tempest even before upgrade starts | 13:51 |
| jlibosva | seems like the stable is not that much stable :) | 13:51 |
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| HenryG | Please everyone who can, help jlibosva to look at these issues. | 13:51 |
| jlibosva | thanks | 13:51 |
| HenryG | Thanks jlibosva | 13:51 |
| HenryG | #topic Division of labour | 13:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Division of labour (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:52 | |
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| HenryG | Code contributors (so far): akamyshnikova, salv-orlando, jlibosva, HenryG | 13:52 |
| HenryG | Core mentors: markmcclain, salv-orlando, marun | 13:52 |
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| HenryG | New: rpodolyaka :) | 13:52 |
| HenryG | Personally I am no expert on databases, so I would prefer to work more on the python side of things. | 13:53 |
| HenryG | Any objections or additions? | 13:53 |
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| akamyshnikova | I think i will continue my researching for creating a script | 13:54 |
| rpodolyaka | akamyshnikova: I'll help you on alembic side :) | 13:54 |
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| HenryG | jlibosva: focus on grenade/tempest? | 13:54 |
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| jlibosva | HenryG: ok, I'd like to also participate on the healing script | 13:54 |
| akamyshnikova | rpodolyaka, thank a lot! I rely on your help | 13:55 |
| HenryG | jlibosva: of course | 13:55 |
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| HenryG | jlibosva: we are accustomed to turning to you (and salv-orlando) for grenade wisdom :) | 13:56 |
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| HenryG | #topic Mid-cycle sprint | 13:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid-cycle sprint (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:57 | |
| HenryG | Just wanted to ensure everyone is aware of the mid-cycle sprint to focus on nova-networking parity. | 13:57 |
| HenryG | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-juno-mid-cycle-meeting | 13:57 |
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| akamyshnikova | yes, I've heard about it | 13:58 |
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| HenryG | For those who can't attend, I will try to set up some interactive thing with a webcam. | 13:59 |
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| HenryG | Everyone try to squeeze some travel funds out of their bosses. :) | 14:00 |
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| rpodolyaka | :) | 14:00 |
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| HenryG | #topic Open discussion | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 14:00 | |
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| sc68cal | HenryG: we have the ipv6 meeting | 14:00 |
| HenryG | #endmeeting | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 14:01:11 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-05-27-13.02.html | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-05-27-13.02.txt | 14:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-05-27-13.02.log.html | 14:01 |
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| sc68cal | HenryG: thanks | 14:01 |
| HenryG | Sorry sc68cal :) | 14:01 |
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| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 14:01:34 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | Who's here for IPv6? | 14:01 |
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| xuhanp | hello everyone | 14:01 |
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| baoli | Hi | 14:01 |
| dane_leblanc | Hello | 14:01 |
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| sc68cal | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-IPv6-Subteam#Agenda_for_May_27th | 14:02 |
| pcarver | Hi | 14:02 |
| sc68cal | #topic blueprints | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:03 | |
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| sc68cal | #info Make sure you are creating blueprints in the neutron-specs repo and submitting to gerrit | 14:03 |
| sc68cal | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints#Neutron Blueprint info | 14:04 |
| sc68cal | Do we have any blueprints to discuss? | 14:04 |
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| sc68cal | OK - if not we will continue on to code reviews | 14:07 |
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| sc68cal | #topic code reviews | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "code reviews (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:08 | |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, I restore my client code change, but seems like Mark still has the -2 on it. | 14:08 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: I e-mailed mark mcclain to ask him to clear his -2 for your python-neutronclient change | 14:08 |
| sc68cal | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75871/6 Python-neutronclient change for ipv6 attributes | 14:08 |
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| xuhanp | :-) we are thinking about the same thing | 14:09 |
| sc68cal | :) | 14:09 |
| sc68cal | #info markmcclain needs to clear -2 since we're in Juno release | 14:09 |
| sc68cal | I hate to put a strong voice in the logs like that, but the -2 was because he didn't want it in the Icehouse release | 14:09 |
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| sc68cal | We may need to really get moving on the implementation patches that orchestrate dnsmasq | 14:10 |
| xuhanp | +1 | 14:10 |
| sc68cal | to help facilitate the clearing of that -2. | 14:10 |
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| sc68cal | So - looks like Shixiong Shang is not online - I'm going to make an executive decision and start breaking up his patches into smaller chunks | 14:11 |
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| sc68cal | then offering them to people to work on | 14:11 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, let me know what I can help. We have env in our lab to test it. | 14:11 |
| sc68cal | Pefect | 14:12 |
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| sc68cal | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70649/ Dnsmasq IPv6 patch that needs to be broken up | 14:12 |
| sc68cal | #action sc68cal break that review into pieces so we can have multiple people working on the patch | 14:12 |
| baoli | I didn't see responses to the comments people had posted to the review. | 14:13 |
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| sc68cal | There were ~50 comments on the review, it probably just got too big to really handle | 14:14 |
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| baoli | Some fundamental comments need to be addressed, at least | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | agree - when we break it up we'll need to consult the comments of that review to help guide the work | 14:15 |
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| sc68cal | Before I forget - xuhanp mentioned he has a lab to test the patches - I'm also working with SridharG to add API tests to Tempest, and scenario tests for IPv6 functionality | 14:16 |
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| sc68cal | so we can get things testing at the gate | 14:16 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, sure. That should be easy to test since tempest is still all-in-one node, right? | 14:17 |
| sc68cal | Not 100% sure - there has been a lot of work to start doing multi node- but I don't know the status of that work | 14:18 |
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| sc68cal | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93502/ Tempest IPv6 attribute tests | 14:18 |
| sc68cal | I think I need to update that review, it is possible that they removed testtools as a dependency for tempest in the last couple days | 14:19 |
| sc68cal | went from passing (except for icehouse) to failing completely :-\ | 14:19 |
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| sc68cal | hmm no it's still a dependency. Well going to have to figure that one out. testr has the most useful error reporting </sarcasm> | 14:20 |
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| sc68cal | do we have any other code reviews to discuss? | 14:22 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, I also has a code review to discuss | 14:22 |
| xuhanp | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76125/ | 14:22 |
| xuhanp | it has been there for a while, and baoli and I were discussing about this on mail list | 14:22 |
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| xuhanp | I would like to hear team's opinion on this. | 14:23 |
| xuhanp | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-May/034914.html | 14:24 |
| xuhanp | here is the email discussion | 14:24 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: I agree with your analysis about allowing two LLA's for a subnet | 14:25 |
| xuhanp | The major concern about attaching subnet with LLA gateway to a router will cause the gateway port has two LLA addresses. | 14:25 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, yep | 14:25 |
| sc68cal | I'm temptest to just say, if you attach a router to a subnet that already has a LLA set - *overwrite it* | 14:25 |
| sc68cal | *tempted | 14:25 |
| sc68cal | although on second thought - multiple routers attached to a subnet | 14:26 |
| sc68cal | for east-west traffic | 14:26 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, by "overwrite" you mean use the IP in the subnet instead? | 14:26 |
| sc68cal | no I was thinking take the LLA of the router when it is attached to the subnet and replace the gateway attr of the subnet (if set) | 14:27 |
| sc68cal | most of the time people are not going to set the gateway IP of a subnet then attach a router | 14:27 |
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| sc68cal | they'll most likely create a subnet with just the cidr and ip version then attach a router | 14:28 |
| xuhanp | I see | 14:28 |
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| sc68cal | So perhaps throw an error if the gateway attr is already set when attempting to attach a router? | 14:28 |
| sc68cal | Until we can think of something to handle multiple routers attached to a subnet | 14:29 |
| sc68cal | I have to take a look at the extraroute attributes | 14:29 |
| xuhanp | yep. that makes sense. Let me think about that. | 14:29 |
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| sc68cal | To be honest I don't know how much of a problem this is *right now* since we don't have dnsmasq fixed yet | 14:30 |
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| sc68cal | but it certainly will become a problem once we get that working | 14:30 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, agree that the dnsmasq fix has higher priority. | 14:30 |
| sc68cal | anything else before we turn to bugs? | 14:31 |
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| sc68cal | #topic bugs | 14:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:33 | |
| sc68cal | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=ipv6 | 14:33 |
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| sc68cal | We have some new and interesting bugs :) | 14:33 |
| sc68cal | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1322945 | 14:33 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1322945 in neutron "Attaching a IPv6 private subnet to a L3 Router, breaks it and its IPv4 Floating IPs" [High,New] | 14:33 |
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| baoli | sc68cal, when working on the SNAT bug, in the review, we discussed issues associated with ipv4 floating ip. | 14:34 |
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| baoli | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88584/1/neutron/agent/l3_agent.py | 14:35 |
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| baoli | The comments talked about some issues | 14:35 |
| baoli | I was wondering if a BP is needed to address them all | 14:35 |
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| sc68cal | My first thought is just to file a bug(s) | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | it sounds just like misbehavior | 14:37 |
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| baoli | The ipv4 floating ip api needs to be looked at in the context of ipv4 and ipv6 together | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | agree | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | aveiga is out this week but we're working on a way to do floats in v6, without NAT | 14:38 |
| sc68cal | but yeah dual stack floating ips - probably nobody has thought of that | 14:39 |
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| sc68cal | baoli: I'll make a note to bring this up at the main meeting - this is a very interesting issue | 14:40 |
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| sc68cal | #action sc68cal bring up baoli's analysis of the floating ip API and dual stacking in the main meeting | 14:40 |
| sc68cal | baoli: for the time being can you write up a bug so I can link it for them? | 14:40 |
| baoli | sc68cal, that would be great. It should be considered in the case of dual stack and ipv6 only | 14:40 |
| baoli | sc68cal, will do. | 14:41 |
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| sc68cal | #action baoli write up bug report about dual stack and v6 only floating ips | 14:41 |
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| sc68cal | So the other bug I wanted to bring attention to is this one | 14:42 |
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| sc68cal | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/1323152 | 14:42 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1323152 in ironic "CI failure "unable to enable dhcp for" (dup-of: 1321494)" [Undecided,New] | 14:42 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1321494 in ironic "NodeLocked causing random test failures" [High,In progress] | 14:42 |
| sc68cal | basically dnsmasq barfs on a v6 subnet | 14:42 |
| sc68cal | I'm sure we've all seen that error in devstack when testing v6 :) | 14:43 |
| sc68cal | so - I think one of the fixes is bumping the dnsmasq min version | 14:43 |
| sc68cal | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1233339 | 14:44 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1233339 in neutron "bump dhcp.Dnsmasq.MINIMUM_VERSION" [Medium,Triaged] | 14:44 |
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| sc68cal | the other fix is getting the dnsmasq patches for v6 merged :) | 14:44 |
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| sc68cal | Any other bugs to discuss? | 14:45 |
| sc68cal | otherwise I'll turn to open discussion | 14:45 |
| sc68cal | #topic open discussion | 14:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:46 | |
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| sc68cal | If there's nothing else to discuss, I can give everyone back 10 minutes and end the meeting | 14:50 |
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| xuhanp | :-) | 14:51 |
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| sc68cal | Ok everyone, take care, see you all next week! | 14:51 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 14:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 14:51:59 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-05-27-14.01.html | 14:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-05-27-14.01.txt | 14:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-05-27-14.01.log.html | 14:52 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: ping ? :) | 15:00 |
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| bauzas | echo-echo-echo | 15:00 |
| toan-tran | pong | 15:00 |
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| bauzas | we're waiting for the One :) | 15:01 |
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| bauzas | let's wait one more minute agani | 15:02 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: the One and the Many? :) | 15:02 |
| bauzas | and then I'll start | 15:02 |
| bauzas | n0ano should chair that one | 15:02 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 15:03:39 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:03 |
| * n0ano really should type into the right window | 15:03 | |
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| bauzas | hurraaaaa | 15:04 |
| * doron here | 15:04 | |
| n0ano | I started the meeting in openstack-dev and was saying bad things about no one joining :( | 15:04 |
| bauzas | so, I think we can start | 15:04 |
| n0ano | anyway | 15:04 |
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| n0ano | #Juno summit recap | 15:04 |
| bauzas | mspreitz and toan-tran said hello | 15:04 |
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| n0ano | just so everyone knows, the etherpads from the friday sched sessions were: | 15:05 |
| n0ano | forklift | 15:05 |
| n0ano | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-nova-gantt-apis | 15:05 |
| n0ano | no-db scheduler | 15:05 |
| n0ano | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-nova-no-db-scheduler | 15:05 |
| n0ano | simultaneout scheduling for server groups | 15:05 |
| n0ano | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-nova-scheduling-server-groups | 15:05 |
| n0ano | hints for VM lifecycle | 15:05 |
| n0ano | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-nova-scheduler-hints-vm-lifecycle | 15:05 |
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| bauzas | we also discussed in -dev ML | 15:05 |
| bauzas | lemme find the link | 15:05 |
| n0ano | we can do a brief rundown of the sessions: | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | forklift - forge ahead, clean up the interfaces in nova first and then split the code out | 15:06 |
| bauzas | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-May/035415.html | 15:06 |
| n0ano | nodb - the memcached is used as a journal of the changes (not what I expected and created a large bit of discussion) | 15:07 |
| n0ano | simultaneous scheduler for server groups - should look into maybe merging this into climate | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | s/Climate/Blazar now :) | 15:07 |
| n0ano | n0ano, sigh, can't tell the players without a score card (baseball reference :-) | 15:08 |
| mspreitz | and some of them have funny names | 15:08 |
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| n0ano | hings for VM lifecycle - good idea, issue is where to store the hings | 15:08 |
| bauzas | right | 15:09 |
| n0ano | that's my summary of results, anyone want to expand any of that? | 15:09 |
| toan-tran | yeah | 15:09 |
| bauzas | the detailed analysis is in the link I gave previously | 15:09 |
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| toan-tran | on VM lifecycle | 15:09 |
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| toan-tran | IMO it's really necessary | 15:10 |
| toan-tran | and the solution that Jay Lau proposed sounds well | 15:10 |
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| toan-tran | just want to know when the bp starts :) | 15:10 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: there was a consensus about the need | 15:10 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 15:10 |
| mspreitz | Which is Jay's solution? | 15:10 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: the discussion was about how to persist it | 15:10 |
| mspreitz | +1 on th need | 15:10 |
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| toan-tran | mspreitz: stores hints in db | 15:11 |
| toan-tran | whether instance metadata or something else | 15:11 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: the idea was to store hints in compute_nodes table | 15:11 |
| bauzas | right | 15:11 |
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| bauzas | the discussion was about the possible interest of system_metadata | 15:11 |
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| toan-tran | I got another thought | 15:11 |
| toan-tran | since this hint can be used with Instance Group | 15:12 |
| toan-tran | so that user can add VMs into groups | 15:12 |
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| toan-tran | it's not bad iea to have it stored with instance group | 15:12 |
| toan-tran | s/iea/idea | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: hints are not only for groups | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | at the session, people didn't like the idea of every VM having a group, but its an option for sure | 15:13 |
| n0ano | what bauzas said, I would think the hings should be VM specific | 15:13 |
| n0ano | s/hings/hints/ | 15:13 |
| mspreitz | n0ano? should be? Are! right? | 15:13 |
| toan-tran | OK, so idea reversed: | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | n0ano: +1 for now it has to be really | 15:13 |
| toan-tran | make Instance group use hints ? | 15:14 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88983/ is the nova-spec | 15:14 |
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| mspreitz | toan-tran: how? | 15:14 |
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| toan-tran | mspreitz: sorry ? | 15:15 |
| mspreitz | I am asking what you mean | 15:15 |
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| mspreitz | expand on your remark pls | 15:15 |
| toan-tran | I mean we can use hint to make instance group policy persistant | 15:15 |
| bauzas | the proposed change is planned to be located in instances table | 15:15 |
| mspreitz | I thought Instance Grp policy is already persistent | 15:16 |
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| toan-tran | right now the problem of instance group, IMO, is that whenever user wants to create a VM, it has to connect with the group's current policy | 15:16 |
| toan-tran | thus from my point of view, instance group' s policy and hint is the same | 15:16 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, are you getting confused, we need to make the hints for a VM persisten, how the instance groups uses those hints is up to the instance group code | 15:16 |
| mspreitz | toan-tran: I'm confused, that's the point of Inst grp | 15:16 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: heavy +1 | 15:17 |
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| mspreitz | Storing hints in instances table makes sense to me | 15:17 |
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| toan-tran | well, I'm saying that if we think of how new VM should be created for a group | 15:17 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: that's what's proposed in the spec | 15:17 |
| garyk | i am not sure i follow | 15:18 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: please address your concerns there : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88983/17/specs/juno/persist-scheduler-hints.rst | 15:18 |
| garyk | the spawn today uses the hint to indicate which instance group to ise | 15:18 |
| garyk | sorry, use | 15:18 |
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| garyk | the group is persistent. | 15:18 |
| mspreitz | bauzas: I have not had a chance to read that patch yet, I presume it follows the spec (store in instances table) | 15:18 |
| n0ano | I thought the only issue from the summit was whether to store the hings in a new instance table column or a new table | 15:19 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: you presume well | 15:19 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: no argument here | 15:19 |
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| mspreitz | So I am +1 on the spec and patch | 15:19 |
| toan-tran | I just think of how instance group can profit from persistent hint | 15:19 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, so is you only concern `how` the instance group code uses that data | 15:19 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: yes | 15:20 |
| bauzas | time is precious, and we still need to discuss about other summit topics | 15:20 |
| bauzas | could we move on ? | 15:20 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: i'm done :) | 15:20 |
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| n0ano | I think we've discovered we're in violent agreement, so sure | 15:20 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:20 |
| n0ano | bauzas, you had another point? | 15:20 |
| bauzas | I just wanted to discuss about no-db | 15:20 |
| bauzas | and sched-forklift | 15:20 |
| bauzas | but sched forklift can wait for the next topic | 15:21 |
| bauzas | I just saw YorikSar joining | 15:21 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: ping ? | 15:21 |
| n0ano | is boris-42 or one of his team members available? | 15:21 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: Hi :) | 15:21 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: hi :) | 15:21 |
| YorikSar | n0ano: I'm here | 15:21 |
| n0ano | YorikSar, can we talk about the no-db scheduler work | 15:21 |
| bauzas | YorikSar is the current owner of the no-db patches | 15:21 |
| YorikSar | Sure. | 15:21 |
| bauzas | YorikSar was not present at Summit | 15:21 |
| bauzas | so we need to make sure we're on the same page | 15:22 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: has boris-42 discussed with you about the results of the session ? | 15:22 |
| YorikSar | As I understood from what boris-42 told me, I need to make the new host state delivering scheme optional. | 15:22 |
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| iqbalmohomed | At the summit, there was some confusion/questions about the 60 second sync ups .. | 15:22 |
| n0ano | I was confused when the summit session indicated the memcache would be a tranascation journal and not a state cache, is that still the case | 15:22 |
| YorikSar | And for the rest of it people were agreed upon it. | 15:23 |
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| bauzas | YorikSar: well, that's a point, the second one was about journalising updates | 15:23 |
| bauzas | n0ano: +1 | 15:23 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: +1 | 15:23 |
| YorikSar | iqbalmohomed: We can have pluggable backends that store all data used by Synchronizer. | 15:23 |
| n0ano | bauzas, yeah, I think there was negative agreement on the journaling issue | 15:23 |
| YorikSar | n0ano: ^ | 15:23 |
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| YorikSar | It includes smth like a journal but is not limited to it. | 15:24 |
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| n0ano | I don't understand why you have a journal at all, why not a state table | 15:24 |
| YorikSar | So just like with SQL backend we can ask for all new updates and fetch only records that were changed with those updates. | 15:25 |
| iqbalmohomed | regarding the journal ... was the idea that there is a periodic checkpoint that is done? | 15:25 |
| mspreitz | YorikSar: changed since <what> ? | 15:25 |
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| YorikSar | Since last sync action. Sync is done before every read/ | 15:26 |
| mspreitz | There are multiple consumers, right? So it's since <this client's> last sync, right? | 15:26 |
| iqbalmohomed | ok ... i guess the sync = the checkpoint | 15:26 |
| YorikSar | So most common case will be: user spawns an instance, scheduler fetches list of updates since last its request and fetches records touched by those updates. | 15:27 |
| YorikSar | mspreitz: Yes. | 15:27 |
| toan-tran | ok so basically there are two storage: one for the whole state and another for changes | 15:27 |
| toan-tran | ? | 15:27 |
| YorikSar | iqbalmohomed: Well... You can name it that way. | 15:27 |
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| YorikSar | toan-tran: No. | 15:28 |
| mspreitz | YorikSar: So there is some way of identify the client or its last sync. What is that? | 15:28 |
| YorikSar | Update is just a record that some Record has been changed, no data. | 15:28 |
| n0ano | YorikSar, ?? (now I'm confused) | 15:28 |
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| YorikSar | mspreitz: Every client stores a token of the latest update it have seen. | 15:29 |
| YorikSar | So it asks backend "give me all records that were changed by updates with token greater that this one" | 15:29 |
| iqbalmohomed | When a new client comes in (e.g. during crash recovery), how does it catch up? | 15:29 |
| mspreitz | YorikSar: token = sequence number, works because updates are totally ordered ? | 15:29 |
| YorikSar | mspreitz: Yes | 15:29 |
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| YorikSar | iqbalmohomed: It fetches all records from the backend | 15:30 |
| YorikSar | And a latest update's token. | 15:30 |
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| mspreitz | So there is one central thing that is totally ordering updates. Is that a scalability problem? | 15:30 |
| YorikSar | mspreitz: For SQL backend it's just an autoincremented primary key. | 15:31 |
| YorikSar | mspreitz: For memcached it's a key that will be inc()'ed for every new update. | 15:32 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: IIUC, the debate was about the need of implementing checkpoints with memcache | 15:32 |
| toan-tran | YorikSar: how big the data it has to sends ? it's quite a problem if the client is far behind | 15:32 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: because that was a logic that memcache could handle on its own, no need to implement it at software level | 15:32 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: I'm not sure I understand what's a checkpoint in this context. | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | correct me if I'm wrong, but you're implementing transactions at the implementation level ? | 15:33 |
| YorikSar | toan-tran: If the client is far behind (lost next update after his last one) it'll eventually refetch all records from backend. | 15:33 |
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| YorikSar | bauzas: No, with memcached there is no transactions. | 15:34 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: the point that has been raised was about why implementing it and not leave memcache holding this? | 15:34 |
| n0ano | OK, everyone take a deep breath and let's pause for a minute... | 15:35 |
| bauzas | n0ano: :) | 15:35 |
| YorikSar | Let me throw in some spec I've written before summit | 15:35 |
| n0ano | I think there is a `lot` of confusion about the details of this design... | 15:35 |
| YorikSar | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92128/2/specs/juno/no-db-scheduler.rst | 15:35 |
| YorikSar | It feels like I'm retelling some parts of it. | 15:35 |
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| * mspreitz wants to study before speaking more | 15:36 | |
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| n0ano | YorikSar, thank you, that's what I was about to ask for, let's all read that spec and come back next week with some understanding and raise any issues we have | 15:36 |
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| mspreitz | +1 | 15:36 |
| bauzas | n0ano: +2 | 15:36 |
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| YorikSar | n0ano: Great idea :) | 15:36 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: +3 | 15:36 |
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| n0ano | YorikSar, BTW, thank for doing this, we're really not trying to beat up on you, there's just lots of confusion | 15:37 |
| YorikSar | I hope I'll be able to address some of John's comments there. | 15:37 |
| YorikSar | n0ano: I understand. | 15:37 |
| iqbalmohomed | +1 | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | YorikSar: cool, its just the optional bits that makes me −2 at this point, I love the idea in general | 15:37 |
| YorikSar | I guess noone noticed that spec after John -2'd it | 15:37 |
| bauzas | n0ano: indeed, we're just reporting discussion from the Summit | 15:37 |
| n0ano | moving on, any other summit comments before we move to forklift efforts? | 15:38 |
| bauzas | n0ano: maybe we could put an action | 15:38 |
| YorikSar | n0ano: I totally understand. | 15:38 |
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| n0ano | #action everyone to read the no-db spec and come back for detailed discussion next week | 15:38 |
| bauzas | sweet | 15:38 |
| YorikSar | johnthetubaguy: Yes, I've just been waiting or summit to pass before getting back to the spec | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | YorikSar: cool, no problem, ping me if I miss an updated, happy to help review that | 15:39 |
| n0ano | #topic forklift efforts | 15:39 |
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| bauzas | soooo | 15:39 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, can you provide a brief summary | 15:39 |
| YorikSar | johnthetubaguy: Sure. Will do. | 15:39 |
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| bauzas | there are 3 bps I'm owning for that | 15:39 |
| bauzas | 2 are still specs to review | 15:40 |
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| bauzas | the most important one is to isolate the sched db | 15:40 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/89893 | 15:40 |
| bauzas | I made some changes, based on Summit feedback | 15:40 |
| bauzas | I'm planning to begin working on that by next week | 15:40 |
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| bauzas | that one is really huge to work on | 15:41 |
| bauzas | so, work items are important | 15:41 |
| bauzas | people interested in contributing can review the spec | 15:41 |
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| bauzas | in order to make I'm not forgetting a crucial piece of work | 15:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: the currently approved blueprint has all its patches up for review now? | 15:41 |
| mspreitz | Can you pls post a pointer to all 3 bps? | 15:41 |
| bauzas | s/make/make sure | 15:41 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: sure | 15:41 |
| bauzas | #link https://review.openstack.org/82133 (scheduler-lib validated) | 15:42 |
| bauzas | #link https://review.openstack.org/89893 (isolate-sched-db review in progress) | 15:42 |
| bauzas | #link https://review.openstack.org/94916 (prep_resize to move to conductor - review in progress) | 15:43 |
| bauzas | these are the 3 bps I'm owning | 15:43 |
| bauzas | sched-lib is targeted for juno-1 | 15:43 |
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| bauzas | I'll speak about it right after | 15:43 |
| n0ano | bauzas, when you say `review in progress`, is that the BP or the patches to implement the BP? | 15:43 |
| bauzas | isolate-sched-db is planned for juno-3 | 15:43 |
| mspreitz | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94916/ is a change with no associated BP | 15:44 |
| bauzas | spec is currently in review | 15:44 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: my bad, missed the bp link | 15:44 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: bp/move-prep-resize-to-conductor | 15:44 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: you can find it as bp name | 15:45 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: but will amend the patch | 15:45 |
| mspreitz | bauzas: thanks | 15:45 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: that one is quite small to do | 15:45 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: the most important efforts will go to https://review.openstack.org/89893 implementation | 15:45 |
| bauzas | hence the juno-3 target | 15:45 |
| bauzas | so, I pledge you to review the spec and comment it | 15:46 |
| bauzas | juno-2 is beginning in 2 weeks | 15:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: about this one: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/scheduler-lib | 15:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: are all the patches up for that now? | 15:46 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: the current patch is https://review.openstack.org/82778 | 15:47 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: it's just missing unittests for sched-lib | 15:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: do you expect any more patches? | 15:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, OK, its not complete yet, fair enough | 15:47 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I will do another one for patching the calls of select_destinations | 15:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | just its targeted at juno-1 | 15:48 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: it will be ended by tomorrow | 15:48 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I nearly finished to write the tests, will submit them today or tomorrow | 15:48 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: so you can review it | 15:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: OK, so all patches hopefully up by tomorrow then, thats cool | 15:49 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: yup | 15:49 |
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| johnthetubaguy | once is ready, you can move to needscodereview blueprint state, which is cool, thanks | 15:49 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: so that next week will be focused on delivering new patchsets if any requested | 15:49 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: ok will do | 15:49 |
| n0ano | bauzas, maybe a couple of actions, bauzas to complete the one patch, everyone to do reviews? | 15:51 |
| bauzas | so, as I said, I'm looking for support on reviews for both the isolate-sched-db spec and the sched-lib patch | 15:51 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: would love to | 15:51 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: +1 | 15:51 |
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| n0ano | #action all to review isolate-sched-db spec & sched-lib patch | 15:51 |
| bauzas | thanks | 15:52 |
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| n0ano | #action bauzas to complete tests for scheduler-lib patch | 15:52 |
| bauzas | cool | 15:52 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, BTW, tnx for the effort, it's much appreciated | 15:52 |
| iqbalmohomed | In the last few mins, could we do a quick recap of the simultaneous server group scheduling discussion? | 15:53 |
| bauzas | your welcome | 15:53 |
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| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:53 | |
| bauzas | sure, I'm don | 15:53 |
| bauzas | done | 15:53 |
| n0ano | iqbalmohomed, sure, go ahead | 15:53 |
| bauzas | iqbalmohomed: what do you want to know ? | 15:53 |
| iqbalmohomed | So what I got was that we need to talk to the climate folks first | 15:53 |
| iqbalmohomed | figure out how that integrates with GANTT | 15:53 |
| iqbalmohomed | and then, we'll be ready to get started | 15:54 |
| iqbalmohomed | but i didn't hear strong objection to the capability | 15:54 |
| iqbalmohomed | any other thoughts? | 15:54 |
| bauzas | iqbalmohomed: that's right | 15:54 |
| n0ano | iqbalmohomed, that's what I heard | 15:54 |
| bauzas | iqbalmohomed: I'm one of the Climate folks, btw. | 15:54 |
| mspreitz | So quick question: when I looked at the API a month ago, I was disappointed to find no way to make a reservation without creating a VM at the same time. Is that still true? | 15:55 |
| doron | iqbalmohomed: climate is now blazar- it was renamed.... | 15:55 |
| bauzas | iqbalmohomed: the idea is to see how to integrate that idea in Climate and see what pieces are missing in Nova | 15:55 |
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| iqbalmohomed | cool .. will follow up in the climate discussion group and report back here | 15:55 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: you're right, we're not having a no-op plugin | 15:56 |
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| bauzas | mspreitz: but that's not a huge amount of work | 15:56 |
| mspreitz | We want some separation. Discussion to follow, this meeting is about to end. | 15:56 |
| bauzas | iqbalmohomed: you can join #openstack-blazar | 15:56 |
| bauzas | iqbalmohomed: for discussion | 15:56 |
| iqbalmohomed | bauzas: thanks ... do | 15:56 |
| n0ano | mspreitz, do you want me to queue this up for next weeks agenda? | 15:57 |
| mspreitz | not sure yet, let us discuss with Blazar folks first | 15:57 |
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| n0ano | mspreitz, sounds good | 15:57 |
| iqbalmohomed | thx all | 15:57 |
| toan-tran | btw why blazar? | 15:57 |
| bauzas | I promise it won't be the Blazaar :) | 15:57 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: :) | 15:58 |
| n0ano | Winding down for today, any last minute comments? | 15:58 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: I leave you check Wikipedia :) | 15:58 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: Novas and Blazars are common objects in space :) | 15:58 |
| toan-tran | yeah super-nova IMO | 15:58 |
| n0ano | OK, tnx everyone, talk again next week | 15:59 |
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| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| toan-tran | bauzas: that's why I asked | 15:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 15:59:14 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| toan-tran | :) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-05-27-15.03.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-05-27-15.03.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-05-27-15.03.log.html | 15:59 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: thanks for your support :) | 15:59 |
| n0ano | bauzas, NP | 15:59 |
| bauzas | much appreciated | 15:59 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 16:01:09 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | hi all | 16:01 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: morning ;) | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: hi there | 16:01 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp luis_fdez: hi there! | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | so today we'll discuss some updates from the summit | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | #topic summit updates | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit updates (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:02 | |
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| alexpilotti | here’s the link with the design summit’s etherpad: | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-hyperv-juno | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | so we had a design session that went extremely well | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | it’s a lot of stuff :-) | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | this pretty much lays out our plans for the next 2 release cycles | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: you'll be interested in that | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | top feature is going to be SMB3 | 16:04 |
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| alexpilotti | here’s a quick list: | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | Nova and Cinder SMB3 integration | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | Nova x509 based Windows password-less authentication | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | Generation 2 VMs | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | Nova SMB shared storage | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | Nova serial console | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | Nova soft reboot | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | Nova host power actions | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | Nova rescue | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | Nova RemoteFX support | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | Nova / Neutron Hyper-V SR-IOV pass-through | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | Nova Hyper-V clustering support | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: ^ | 16:05 |
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| alexpilotti | beside that | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | ironic Hyper-V driver | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | with planned contributrions from HP | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | thanks for supplying the list | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | so this is it :-) | 16:06 |
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| primeministerp | we'll be adding blueprints for these if they are not on thier way already | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | #topic ci | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ci (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:06 | |
| primeministerp | additionally we're in process for building additonal ci infra | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | to support all the addtional testing we'll be taking on | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | we're on target for that infra to be operational by end of j | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | #topic puppet | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "puppet (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:08 | |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: ping | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: any word on the work you've done to align w/ the upstream modules? | 16:08 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: if not we can pick up later | 16:08 |
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| primeministerp | I still am in the process of deploying the necessary test infra here which could take some time | 16:08 |
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| primeministerp | #topic openvswitch | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "openvswitch (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:09 | |
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| primeministerp | so the cloudbase folks released installers for the ovs for hyper-v b its | 16:09 |
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| alexpilotti | so the great news, we published Open vSwitch for Hyper-V | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | including an installer to fully automate the deployment: | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | #link http://www.cloudbase.it/open-vswitch-on-hyper-v/ | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | we’re now fixing a few remaining bugs and we’re ready for the RTW | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | the installer is built automatically by our jenkins servers as soon as a patch lands in one of the github repos | 16:11 |
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| alexpilotti | we’re also working on an article showing the integration with Neutron and the OVS plugin | 16:12 |
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| primeministerp | great | 16:13 |
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| primeministerp | thanks for the ovs update | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | so I have nothing else for now | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | let's close it quick as I know parties are busy | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:13 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 16:13:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:13 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-05-27-16.01.html | 16:13 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-05-27-16.01.txt | 16:13 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-05-27-16.01.log.html | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | bye! | 16:13 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeeting rally | 17:07 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 17:07:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:07 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:07 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:07 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais Gamekiller77 jseutter ping | 17:07 |
| jseutter | here | 17:07 |
| Gamekiller77 | here | 17:07 |
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| boris-42 | penguinRaider hi there | 17:08 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov ping | 17:08 |
| penguinRaider | boris-42, hi :-) | 17:08 |
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| boris-42 | #topic persistence context & pre created users | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "persistence context & pre created users (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:10 | |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais hi there | 17:10 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: hi, can you see this doc? https://docs.google.com/a/yahoo-inc.com/document/d/1R60Unka07zpiLyjNBM3xgNBGvKE6pJ8yp2BMVxaVyhQ/edit# | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais could you introduce everybody in this stuff | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais nope | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais make it public on the web | 17:10 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42: let me copy it over to my google drive account — seems that my company settings require person-by-person access when outside the company | 17:11 |
| Gamekiller77 | yah will not let me log in at all | 17:12 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42 Gamekiller77 jseutter: how abt this https://docs.google.com/document/d/16hp6K37C8_j7VQcUGq0oGJ_2dLV4Hlul_IyYpouE-tE/edit# | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais ^ this one works | 17:13 |
| Gamekiller77 | yup i can see it | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais so actually we will need some kind of blueprint or actually 2 blueprints | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais one for persistance-context and one for pre-created-users | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais for predefined users we already have https://blueprints.launchpad.net/rally/+spec/benchmark-context-predefined-users | 17:14 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: wouldn't pre-created users just be users passed in to 'context —create' to match the schema that rally expects for users? | 17:14 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais but it should be rewritten | 17:14 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais yep something like that | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais it will be super simple | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais after persistence stuff | 17:14 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42 Gamekiller77 jseutter : I am abt 1/2 through doc, will add more | 17:15 |
| Gamekiller77 | that would be super helpful | 17:15 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42 Gamekiller77 jseutter: would like to put all the comments in the doc, then just have the blueprint point to the doc? what do you thin? | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais works for me | 17:16 |
| jseutter | I'm okay with that | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais or you can make just empty blueprint | 17:16 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais with link to this file | 17:16 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: yep | 17:16 |
| Gamekiller77 | marcoemorais, that would work for me so i can keep reading up on what you guys change | 17:16 |
| Gamekiller77 | sorry if this derails the topic is there plans to support other DB systems like MySql for Rally ? | 17:17 |
| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 lol | 17:18 |
| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 it's already supported.. | 17:18 |
| Gamekiller77 | crap | 17:18 |
| Gamekiller77 | need to read more | 17:18 |
| Gamekiller77 | sorry | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais ok doc looks fine just need more details | 17:18 |
| penguinRaider | ] | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | #topic rally as a Service | 17:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rally as a Service (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:19 | |
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| boris-42 | Okay we already have a base for making service from rally only thing that we need is to implement Controllers | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | I am going to implement a first controller and make a list of all things that we need in API | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | (another one doc) | 17:20 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais Gamekiller77 penguinRaider jseutter ^ | 17:20 |
| Gamekiller77 | that sounds good | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | any questions? | 17:21 |
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| Gamekiller77 | for the context stuff is there any plans or ideas for static entry possibly via putting them in the DB so you do not have to retype them for each run or a context config files just wondering the flow and thoughts on your side | 17:22 |
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| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 did you read that DOC from Marco?) | 17:22 |
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| Gamekiller77 | yah was not clear | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 that is the goal | 17:23 |
| Gamekiller77 | good good | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 of persistence context | 17:23 |
| marcoemorais | Gamekiller77: you use the context subcommand to manage persistence context saved in the db | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 it is stored in DB so we can run different tasks against one context | 17:23 |
| Gamekiller77 | ooo ok now i see it | 17:23 |
| Gamekiller77 | perfect | 17:23 |
| marcoemorais | Gamekiller77: when you do a *create* you get a uuid, and you use that uuid to pass to the task subcommand | 17:23 |
| Gamekiller77 | sorry but of a noob on this stuff | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 that allows us to have pre created users | 17:23 |
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| Gamekiller77 | that rules | 17:23 |
| Gamekiller77 | i can work with that | 17:24 |
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| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 cause there will be context, that just accepts set of users | 17:24 |
| marcoemorais | Gamekiller77: we will actually accept 1 or more persistence context uuids | 17:24 |
| Gamekiller77 | yah see that is perfect | 17:24 |
| marcoemorais | Gamekiller77: in case that you use separate persistence context to store your users and your images, etc.. | 17:24 |
| Gamekiller77 | i am still learning | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 you should write some code=) | 17:24 |
| Gamekiller77 | hehe need to wipe off my coding fingers | 17:25 |
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| Gamekiller77 | need to patch my eclipse | 17:25 |
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| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 hehe=) | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | So persisntace-context will be supper cool stuff | 17:26 |
| Gamekiller77 | this is all written in python right | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 yep mostly | 17:26 |
| Gamekiller77 | never learned Python | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 time to do it=) | 17:26 |
| Gamekiller77 | mostly C++ for my robots | 17:26 |
| Gamekiller77 | need to learn it for my Rasp Pi | 17:27 |
| Gamekiller77 | but yes when this gets in place i so want to test it with my setup | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 =) | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | #topic results of summit | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "results of summit (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:27 | |
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| boris-42 | Epic win with osprofiler -> that will be merged everywhere | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | so we are going to have out of box working stuff | 17:28 |
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| boris-42 | http://pavlovic.me/rally/profiler/ <- for not related people | 17:28 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: +1+1+1+1+1 | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | I am going to finalize lib | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | and make one more time version 0.0.1 | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:29 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: will Rally be the place to build utilities on top of profiler? | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais not sure | 17:29 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: in other words, things that summarize the output of profiler eg X counts to db, Y rpc calls, etc… | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais osprofiler or rally one of this=) | 17:30 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais yep I am still thinking | 17:30 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42: basically will be nice to have a cli for profiler | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais heh I think probably extending osprofiler lib is better idea | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | it's more open source | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | then putting in rally it | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Tempest & Rally future steps | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest & Rally future steps (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:32 | |
| boris-42 | 1. Okay we are going to move out of rally tempest.conf generation | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | 2. We are going to put more data to subunit stream (e.g. duration of setup and cleanup) | 17:33 |
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| boris-42 | #topic free discussion | 17:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "free discussion (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:34 | |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais jseutter penguinRaider any questions? | 17:35 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: are you still receptive to the idea of reporting benchmark results at api call granularity? | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais ? | 17:35 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: in other words, monkey patching the openstack clients so that every call wraps atomic action timer | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais yep | 17:36 |
| jseutter | boris-42: not really. I'm kind of lost at the moment :) | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais it will be very useful | 17:36 |
| penguinRaider | boris-42, I think I will be able to complete most of my GSOC work well before deadline except for the report generation is there anything else you would want me to work on? | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | penguinRaider we will find=) | 17:36 |
| penguinRaider | boris-42, cool :-) | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | penguinRaider but you have a lot of work =) | 17:37 |
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| penguinRaider | boris-42, yeah I guess but more or less its related similar to each other | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | penguinRaider yep it is | 17:38 |
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| boris-42 | penguinRaider so don't worry if you finish everything fast it will be just bette | 17:39 |
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| boris-42 | cause we always have a lot of tasks=) | 17:39 |
| penguinRaider | boris-42, yeah :-) | 17:39 |
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| boris-42 | penguinRaider for example to fix autocomplete stuff in cli=) | 17:40 |
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| boris-42 | ok I think we can end meeting=) | 17:41 |
| boris-42 | and go to rally chat back=) | 17:41 |
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| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:41 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 17:41:27 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:41 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-05-27-17.07.html | 17:41 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-05-27-17.07.txt | 17:41 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-05-27-17.07.log.html | 17:41 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
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| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | it's that time! | 18:00 |
| stevemar | howdy | 18:00 |
| henrynash | hi | 18:00 |
| ayoung | Hello. | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: morganfainberg hey | 18:00 |
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| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
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| nkinder | o/ | 18:00 |
| * ayoung just found a chocolate chip cookie in a platic bag in his poocket. | 18:01 | |
| morganfainberg | looks like we have a bunch of people here | 18:01 |
| * ayoung ready for meeting | 18:01 | |
| morganfainberg | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 18:01:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic identity-specs repo | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "identity-specs repo (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, you running things today? | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, o/ | 18:01 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: this is yours | 18:01 |
| bknudson | I'm working on a spec | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yeah. | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | ok so we offically have a specs repo now! | 18:02 |
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| * ayoung thinks all of the power of being on monty's team is headed ot morganfainberg 's head | 18:02 | |
| dolphm | yay | 18:02 |
| stevemar | haha | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, LOL | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://github.com/openstack/keystone-specs | 18:02 |
| bknudson | this new spec is for v3 extension advertisement | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | the repo is keystone-specs (after much deliberation every program is using the code names) | 18:02 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, already updated. Should be able to just modify the link in .git/config to point to the new repo | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | juno 1 is june 12, so basically anything not about to land will need a spec https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Juno_Release_Schedule | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:03 |
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| henrynash | is there a template of a spec for us to follow (I see a template.rst in there, but not sure it has anything in it)? | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | keystone core members are responsible for reviewing specs as well now (we don't have a separate team like some other projects do) | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | docs also asked that we move all our specs from identity-api into keystone-specs - which would also make it easier for us to propose API changes as part of spec proposals | 18:04 |
| stevemar | henrynash, hmmm, there was a lengthy template, i'll see if i can find it | 18:04 |
| henrynash | ahh, sorry, I see it is one level up | 18:04 |
| bknudson | henrynash: the template has the sections to fill in | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, does the doc team mind if we don't give them commit rights? | 18:04 |
| nkinder | henrynash: the template seems to provide a good overiew | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, right now they have commit rights to identity-api | 18:04 |
| stevemar | henrynash, ++ | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | erm... approval | 18:04 |
| dolphm | henrynash: there are two - the empty one needs to nuked? | 18:04 |
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| bknudson | it's a symlink | 18:05 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: i think that might have been the point - they don't want our API specs :) | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, the templates that are empty are symlinks so docs will build until we have a actual spec | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | cc henrynash ^ | 18:05 |
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| morganfainberg | once we have a real spec we can remove the symlink | 18:05 |
| bknudson | don't try checking it out on windows | 18:05 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: right, ok got it | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, so, i hear we need to not do symlinks next time and maybe just a copy? | 18:05 |
| stevemar | are we having a J2 cutoff for all features that aren't extensions again? | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | or just fix it now as well so we don't break people. | 18:06 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: this is going to break my workflow then | 18:06 |
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| gyee | definitely will break windows 8.1 | 18:07 |
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| bknudson | seems like we should fix the doc build so that it doesn't break if there's no files in a directory | 18:07 |
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| dolphm | gyee: windows 8.0 4 life, yo | 18:07 |
| gyee | heh | 18:07 |
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| dstanek | :( i think i'm in the wrong meeting | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, sure. | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i think it's just how the index base is built, not sure we can "fix" it though | 18:08 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: the symlink dies as soon as we have a real spec, correct? | 18:08 |
| dolphm | (is there only one?) | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, that is the plan | 18:08 |
| bknudson | maybe we could have a spec for the release... e.g., there's some work to do for every release | 18:08 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, there is a symlink for each directory (e.g. ksc, juno, etc) | 18:09 |
| bknudson | for example, removing stuff that's deprecated. | 18:09 |
| dolphm | bknudson: deprecations and removals and whatnot? | 18:09 |
| dolphm | release notes? | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, pre-development notes? | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, summit summary? | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | i'd like release note contributions to be an artifact produced by the -specs repo anyway | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, what about a doc about work that was bumped from the previous release? | 18:11 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, i think a summit summary (even if it's just a link to the etherpads) would be a solid start. anything bumped from previous release would need to be re-proposed (might be a summary approval, but still needs reproposal) | 18:13 |
| dolphm | ayoung: that'll basically be tracked by blueprints that are unmerged, the specs will have to be proposed as a move to the next release | 18:13 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:13 |
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| dolphm | s/unmerged/not "Implemented"/ | 18:13 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, you have a great summary (i saw you taking tons of notes) mind replacing the symlink with that? or something derived from that? | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | and future releases we'll do the same | 18:14 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: my summit summary thing? | 18:14 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, yeah | 18:15 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: i'm not clear on what do you want me to do with it? | 18:15 |
| dolphm | #link http://dolphm.com/openstack-juno-design-summit-outcomes-for-keystone/ | 18:15 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: even with real docs won't it still be broken on windows because of the specs symlink? | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, aha, i was thinking of just taking that and stick it in the repo as the "juno targets" | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, instead of the symlink to the template | 18:16 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: not all of them are *targets* for juno (like Centralized quota-management), nor specific to keystone (like TC-blessed API conventions) | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | ah | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, probably same issue :( | 18:17 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: i don't know that we need to care too much about -specs + windows | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, probably not. | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | client seems to be the only place where windows users seem to appear | 18:18 |
| dolphm | and they're few and far between | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | will client run on windows 3.1 for workgroups? | 18:19 |
| bknudson | another lame joke that went terribly awry. | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | cause... | 18:19 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, legitimately my previous company many people contributed from windows systems (did checkouts etc) | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | most converted to a non-windows OS eventually | 18:19 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: we only support two stable releases back, so windows 98se & windows XP | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:20 |
| ayoung | Win2k was never considered stable? | 18:20 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: #topic | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | anyway back on topic | 18:21 |
| ayoung | Excuse me ME | 18:21 |
| ayoung | Win ME | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | i think we're done on specs | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | next topic | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Hackathon information | 18:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Hackathon information (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:21 | |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, this one is you. | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | #link http://dolphm.com/openstack-keystone-hackathon-for-juno/ | 18:21 |
| dolphm | i have no new information to report since last week :( haven't heard back from geekdom but i sent them another ping today | 18:21 |
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| dolphm | if you are eager to book something, do flights but not hotels yet | 18:22 |
| bknudson | rackspace is not close to geekdome? | 18:22 |
| dstanek | dates are firm right? | 18:23 |
| dolphm | bknudson: geekdom is middle of downtown | 18:23 |
| dolphm | dstanek: yes, let's say dates are firm. if geekdom somehow falls through, we'll do rackspace castle again | 18:23 |
| dstanek | ok, on the security lists there were telling folks to get approval for those dates | 18:24 |
| dolphm | cool | 18:24 |
| bknudson | I understand there's an OSSG meeting before keystone meeting | 18:24 |
| nkinder | dstanek: the security team is likely going to move things to a different date | 18:24 |
| dstanek | nkinder: not the same week anymore? | 18:24 |
| dolphm | nkinder: significantly later in the cycle, or? | 18:24 |
| nkinder | there are some date conflicts for a number of OSSG members, so something else will likely be set up | 18:24 |
| nkinder | The exact dates aren't clear yet. | 18:25 |
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| dstanek | ah, i didn't see that follow up | 18:25 |
| dolphm | nkinder: and barbican is still planning on July 7, 8, 9, correct? | 18:25 |
| nkinder | dolphm: that is my understanding, yes | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, thats unfortunate would have been good to have all the security minded folks/teams (OSSG, barbican, keystone) around | 18:25 |
| dolphm | good, because i'm pursuing space for them on those dates :P | 18:25 |
| nkinder | dstanek: it was sent out privately | 18:25 |
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| dstanek | nkinder: that would explain it then..that's too bad - i was looking forward to seeing how you guys operate | 18:26 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, security is a mindset anyway :) | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, hehe | 18:26 |
| bknudson | since we've got the OSSG we don't have to think about security for ourselves | 18:27 |
| nkinder | :o | 18:27 |
| dstanek | bknudson: that's a good point! we can just mark everything as having a security impact | 18:27 |
| ayoung | Shall we talk plugins? | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | #info Dates are set for meetup July 9-11th, 2014 | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Open Discussion | 18:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:28 | |
| nkinder | I added a topic to the agenda about auth plugins | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, hm i didn't see it | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, aha | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | ok | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | well then | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Auth plugin method signature changes | 18:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Auth plugin method signature changes (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:28 | |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, all you | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | Break all the old clients! | 18:29 |
| nkinder | I'm working on hardening how unscoped/scoped tokens work when using a token for auth | 18:29 |
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| nkinder | This requires scope information from the request to be available inside of the auth plugins | 18:29 |
| gyee | ayoung, you break the clients, somebody will wait for you at the parking lot | 18:29 |
| ayoung | nkinder, specifically from Horizon, which is the nasty use case.... | 18:29 |
| nkinder | Unfortunately, we don't pass that info right now. | 18:29 |
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| ayoung | nkinder, auth plugins are mistnamed | 18:30 |
| ayoung | this on the server, you mean? | 18:30 |
| ayoung | on the server, auth plugins should be authentication only | 18:30 |
| nkinder | I would like to pass the entire AuthInfo object (or a copy) to the auth plugins, but this requires changing the public method signature | 18:30 |
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| nkinder | forget horizon. I'm talking about the keystone server | 18:30 |
| bknudson | there's other ways to pass it in... for example could have a setter | 18:30 |
| gyee | nkinder, so you want to entire payload | 18:31 |
| ayoung | bknudson, nope | 18:31 |
| ayoung | we need the token creation to be a pipeline | 18:31 |
| ayoung | this is not a job for the auth plugins, | 18:31 |
| ayoung | this is for the Token Provider | 18:31 |
| bknudson | could provide a new method | 18:31 |
| nkinder | ayoung: well, this is specific to token authentication | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ReallySecureTokenAuthNoWeMeanItThisTime? | 18:31 |
| ayoung | nkinder, doesn't matter...the user is still authenticated, just not authorized for that new service | 18:32 |
| nkinder | if I authenticate with an existing token, I want to disallow changing project scope | 18:32 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: authenticate2() | 18:32 |
| ayoung | nkinder, that is fine, but it should not be auth plugin that does that | 18:32 |
| ayoung | its in | 18:32 |
| ayoung | the monolith | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ yeah or conditional with a decorator or something. | 18:32 |
| gyee | I thought authentication and scoping are two separate deal | 18:32 |
| bknudson | why can't we change project scope? | 18:32 |
| gyee | scoping is controlled by policies | 18:32 |
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| nkinder | ayoung: ok, so we would need a whole new method that an authn/authz plugin would have to deal with. | 18:33 |
| dstanek | does the plugin have access to the request object? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/token/providers/common.py#n414 | 18:33 |
| bknudson | if I request a token with no scope and the user has a default project then it'll be scoped to the project | 18:33 |
| nkinder | ok, let me step back to talk about scoping | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, isn't that a v2.0 ism? | 18:33 |
| dstanek | this seems like that that belongs on the request itself | 18:33 |
| bknudson | so I'd have to get an unscoped token | 18:33 |
| ayoung | nkinder, I don't think so....I think that we need logic in that provider... | 18:33 |
| ayoung | but we need to make the token pipeline easier to work with | 18:33 |
| nkinder | The idea is that an unscoped token is like a TGT in Kerberos | 18:33 |
| ayoung | right now the logic for v3 is like this: | 18:33 |
| nkinder | It can be used to fetch scoped tokens | 18:33 |
| nkinder | ayoung: wait and let me explain the motivation first | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | aut.controller->pluging->token.provider | 18:34 |
| nkinder | a scoped token should only be allowed to be used for the project it is scoped to | 18:34 |
| nkinder | Currently, you can take a scoped token and authenticate with it to get a new token for another project (or even a new unscoped token) | 18:34 |
| ayoung | nkinder, oh, I agree with you that it is broken as is | 18:35 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: not sure what you mean about v2.0ism -- v3 has default_project and v2 has tenantId (or tenant_id??) | 18:35 |
| nkinder | This means that a scoped token has no security properties, as a service that obtains the token can be used to get another token to perform other operations. | 18:35 |
| ayoung | and Horizon is what has caused that brokenness | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, how much breakage would that cause in the session object(s)? ^ or how hard would that be? | 18:35 |
| gyee | nkinder, you can rescope if you don't have roles on that project | 18:35 |
| gyee | you can't | 18:35 |
| nkinder | I would like scoped tokens to be used to allow a user to create a restricted token | 18:35 |
| ayoung | nkinder, an unscoped token should not be used to do anything but talk to keystone | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ | 18:35 |
| ayoung | horizon should hold on to an unscoped token and use it to get scoped tokens for the current project | 18:36 |
| ayoung | asking them to hold on to two tokens per user should not be too dire | 18:36 |
| nkinder | gyee: I know, but what if you are an admin on one project and have low level rights on another project? | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: i've always known i need a way to handle rescoping auth plugins, i just haven't got to the point where someone asked for it - beyond that idon't see why it would cause many problems | 18:36 |
| ayoung | then when a user changes project, they revoke the scoped token and used the unscoped to get a new scoped token | 18:36 |
| gyee | ayoung, that's essentially how horizon operates today, trade in an unscoped token for a scoped token | 18:36 |
| nkinder | gyee: in that case, your "low-level" token can be intercepted and reused during it's validity period to get your admin privileges on the other project. | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: although an unscoped token doesn't have any catalog - i would like to change that so an unscoped token at least contains a catalog with keystone it in | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | and the code to enforce that you can only go from unscoped->scoped would be enforced in the token provider | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, nod. | 18:37 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, ++ | 18:37 |
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| nkinder | gyee: I created a writeup with my proposal... | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, not unreasonable. actually i think that works well into the id-only stuff down the line | 18:37 |
| nkinder | #link https://blog-nkinder.rhcloud.com/?p=101 | 18:37 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, gyee that is not how Horizon operates | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | its how horizon should operate, but they instead keep one, scoped token around, and expect to be able to transfer that to another scoped token | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: ? | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | horizon also does explicit token revocations now. | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i think we have to work with them in either case on this front | 18:38 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, I know. I broke that at one point, too | 18:38 |
| gyee | nkinder, ahh, escalated privilege | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | right, this will cause problems for horizon and mean that we need to remove the concept of default_project_id - these are things i'm in favour of but it's a tough transition | 18:38 |
| ayoung | and I think we should break that rule to work like this: | 18:38 |
| nkinder | gyee: yes | 18:38 |
| ayoung | 1. Unscoped tokens are for Horizon. An unscoped has an origin | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, default_project_id has been painful over many releases | 18:39 |
| ayoung | an unscoped token must come fromthat origin and will time out in 10 minutes | 18:39 |
| ayoung | basically, make unscoped tokens a session | 18:39 |
| ayoung | so, sliding windo | 18:39 |
| ayoung | w | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, with a refresh timer perhaps? | 18:39 |
| ayoung | if they refresh unscoped within 10 minutes, they get a new unscoped | 18:39 |
| ayoung | lets call them session tokens | 18:39 |
| gyee | nkinder, in that case, any rescoping is bad then? | 18:40 |
| nkinder | gyee: yes, which is the patch I was working on | 18:40 |
| ayoung | gyee, session token to scoped token | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, it's less secure overall. | 18:40 |
| nkinder | gyee: unscoped->scoped should be allowed | 18:40 |
| ayoung | only thing that should be allowed | 18:40 |
| nkinder | gyee: projA -> projB should not be allowed | 18:40 |
| ayoung | nkinder, and only from the same origin as the unscoped was requested from | 18:40 |
| gyee | but unscoped->scoped would have the same effect right? | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, or would you accept a unscoped token w/ say x509 binding vs strict origin? | 18:41 |
| nkinder | gyee: unscoped is a privileged token. | 18:41 |
| ayoung | ideally, unscoped session tokens would be bound to a Kerberos principal or an x509 | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | nkinder: i like that, it's how i thought unscoped tokens worked originally and then i found the default_project mess | 18:41 |
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| jamielennox | it gives an actual purpose to unscoped tokens | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, if Horizon used an X509 to talk to Keystone, that would be what the token gets bound to | 18:41 |
| gyee | nkinder, what I mean is if I intercept an unscoped token, its go-time too right? | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i was thinking of unscoped from non-horizon clients | 18:42 |
| nkinder | gyee: you hang onto it and use it to fetch scoped tokens as needed. You only use the unscoped token to talk to Keystone and get scoped tokens. | 18:42 |
| nkinder | gyee: yes, which is why you only ever send it to keystone | 18:42 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, bind to an X509 or Kerberos principal | 18:42 |
| nkinder | gyee: over SSL/TLS... | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ | 18:42 |
| dstanek | nkinder: ayoung: what do you mean by origin? | 18:42 |
| gyee | helll yeah, I am all for x.509 | 18:42 |
| ayoung | dstanek I want to guard against stolen tokens | 18:42 |
| ayoung | so I would say: | 18:43 |
| ayoung | if Kerberos or X509 is in use, then "origin" means "same authentication doc" | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, but if not...look at the requestor IP Address? | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | I don;t know if there really is a way to limit the damage done there, but we should at least try | 18:43 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: so horizon (and other services) would be passing that through to keystone? | 18:44 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek, ayoung or something like csrf from the horizon | 18:44 |
| ayoung | dstanek, yeah | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, just some kind of binding to try and ensure authenticity of the requestor | 18:44 |
| ayoung | dstanek, wait...no | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, I mean that Horizon requests the token | 18:44 |
| ayoung | Horizon would not pass it through. | 18:44 |
| dstanek | ayoung: and then only horizon can use the token? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | So If I get an unscoped from Horizon, only Horizon can use it to get a scoped from Keystone | 18:44 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:45 |
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| morganfainberg | nkinder, how close are we aiming to re-implementing kerberos ? [not a bad thing] | 18:45 |
| dstanek | does that only apply for unscoped? | 18:45 |
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| gyee | re-implementing kerberos? | 18:45 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, token-granting-tokens, etc. | 18:45 |
| nkinder | morganfainberg: it's similar conceptually | 18:46 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, this is not Kerberos | 18:46 |
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| nkinder | morganfainberg: it's still quite different though | 18:46 |
| ayoung | Kerberos is authentication. THis is authorization | 18:46 |
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| henrynash | i’d say just making unscoped tokens shortlived plus only allowing unscoped->scoped (and not scoped->scoped) would in itslef me a major step fowrard | 18:46 |
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| gyee | so we have kite, and this thing? | 18:46 |
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| gyee | both based on Kerberos? | 18:46 |
| ayoung | henrynash, ++ | 18:46 |
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| morganfainberg | nkinder, ok making sure we weren't just going too far down a path of reimplementing | 18:47 |
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| morganfainberg | nkinder, figured we were fairly diverged still | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ | 18:47 |
| bknudson | do we have a way to force an unscoped token even if user has a defualt project? | 18:47 |
| nkinder | morganfainberg: yeah, it's very different in other areas (revocation abilities, etc.) | 18:47 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, now....SAML is a different question | 18:47 |
| nkinder | bknudson: it didn't look like it to me | 18:48 |
| henrynash | bknudson: no | 18:48 |
| gyee | bknudson, I am afraid not | 18:48 |
| bknudson | seems like we'd just scope: {} | 18:48 |
| nkinder | bknudson: I had to unset the default project to get an unscoped token | 18:48 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yeah, we could return both? | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | so what is the advantage of shortening unscoped tokens? currently you can't get a token with a longer lifetime than the one that was used to authenticate it | 18:48 |
| henrynash | bknudson: once you specify the defaul_project in the user entity, no unscoped tokens from then pb | 18:48 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, we need to change that | 18:48 |
| henrynash | (then on) | 18:48 |
| nkinder | jamielennox: ayoung wants that for the horizon session case really | 18:48 |
| ayoung | we need to let a session be a session and have a sliding windo | 18:48 |
| ayoung | w | 18:48 |
| nkinder | jamielennox: time out an inactive user | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | we would actually need unscoped tokens to live longer than scoped | 18:49 |
| ayoung | 10 minutes | 18:49 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, nope | 18:49 |
| ayoung | we need them to live a very short time, but be renewable | 18:49 |
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| bknudson | do we revoke unscoped tokens when the password changes? | 18:49 |
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| henrynash | bknudson: I’d hope so…. | 18:49 |
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| nkinder | bknudson: hopefully you're not using passwords in the first place... :) | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, so scoped tokens would no longer be revoked if the parent unscoped token was? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I'd say so, yes | 18:50 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: for long running operations would the calling service have to renew the token? | 18:50 |
| bknudson | I guess it only applies to sql users anyways, so really doesn't work anyways | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, or just the validity of the scoped token would extend beyond the unscoped (depending on config) | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | ? | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, correct: but we should support the opposite | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, right. ok | 18:50 |
| nkinder | I think the short lived unscoped token idea is really a second step | 18:50 |
| ayoung | revoke unscoped->revoke all scoped... | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, truely a session token | 18:51 |
| jamielennox | nkinder: ++, i'm not sold on that yet | 18:51 |
| nkinder | The first step would be to just lock down the unscoped->scoped idea | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, i'd probably make it configurable: default is the same TTL as normal tokens | 18:51 |
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| nkinder | With the current code, the scoped token inherits the expiration time from the scoped token | 18:51 |
| henrynash | nkinder: ..from the unscoped one | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, from any token, expiry is the same | 18:52 |
| nkinder | henrynash: whoops, correct (though you currently CAN go scoped->scoped) | 18:52 |
| ayoung | nkinder, we need to solve these other issues too | 18:52 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: yep | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | as it's parent | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | we would need some other unique identifier to solve the unscoped inheritance then | 18:52 |
| nkinder | ayoung: yes, but it's not a pre-requisite | 18:52 |
| ayoung | I don't think we want to do this in two jumps | 18:52 |
| ayoung | nkinder, it kindof it | 18:52 |
| ayoung | is | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | nkinder, the whole "whoops we just loggged you out" thing in Horizon is going to be a problem | 18:53 |
| dstanek | nkinder: is your blog post going to be turned into a spec? | 18:53 |
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| nkinder | dstanek: yes, I'm going to write one | 18:53 |
| dstanek | i'm very curious to read about all of these cases | 18:53 |
| ayoung | nkinder, we can implement in steps | 18:53 |
| nkinder | ayoung: how is that different than now? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | but lets figure out the whole design, | 18:53 |
| ayoung | nkinder, we shortened the token length to an hour | 18:53 |
| ayoung | beforer it was the whole day | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, e.g. a spec proposed? :P | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i think we can solve the design in the spec. | 18:54 |
| nkinder | ok, so my question was really about where the scope change should be implemented, as I was trying to put it in the token auth plugin | 18:54 |
| ayoung | nkinder, we will have puppet resetting the default back to 24 hours or whatever | 18:54 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, ++ | 18:54 |
| nkinder | It sounds like I should look at the token provider and deal with it there if the 'token' method is listed | 18:54 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, just so long as this is understood in context | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | nkinder, No, we need to deal with it in Horizon first | 18:55 |
| ayoung | I already had that "fix" yanked about 18 months ago | 18:55 |
| nkinder | ayoung: Well, that brings the second part of this... Should the behavior be configurable? | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, i think the answer is yes it goes in the provider, but it blocks on getting horizon to solve some issues. | 18:55 |
| ayoung | nkinder, Oh god, no | 18:56 |
| nkinder | We can't lock this down until Horizon knows how to deal with it | 18:56 |
| jamielennox | how much does horizon really have to do? it must already handle the case where it gets either an unscoped token or a scoped one on first auth | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | nkinder, would you want to ever be able to hand in a kerberos service ticket to get another service ticket? Should that be configurable? | 18:56 |
| ayoung | lets just fix it | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, minor changes really, but we couldn't make this hard and fast unless horizon had those changes. | 18:56 |
| bknudson | I'd expect Horizon doesn't care if it gets a scoped token or unscoped, treats them as unscoped either way | 18:57 |
| nkinder | I think Horizon would need to get the unscoped token and just use it to get a scoped token when you select a project | 18:57 |
| ayoung | nkinder, yes | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | nkinder, and...funny you should mention that | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, do we support the concept of keystone across different versions of other services? | 18:57 |
| ayoung | if I might remind morganfainberg about his request for Kerberos help | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, don't think that is a real OS requirement... but. | 18:57 |
| nkinder | morganfainberg: that's one of my worries too | 18:57 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg, bknudson: right, so lets get something proposed and I don't think horizon will have the problems we thing | 18:57 |
| ayoung | There is a pattern here: Horizon work to talk to Keystone is something that is going to require some design | 18:57 |
| nkinder | morganfainberg: ...which would be an argument for making it configurable (even though I'd prefer not to) | 18:58 |
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| morganfainberg | nkinder, i don't know how many people don't deploy lock-step | 18:58 |
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| morganfainberg | nkinder, i think this impacts orgs that track master much more though | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, it probably needs to be configurable | 18:58 |
| ayoung | nkinder, OK, so I kind of agree, in that I want to break the token provider up into a pipeline | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | ~1min | 18:59 |
| ayoung | and the "token to token" portion could be swapped out then | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | nkinder, I'd like to have a separate paste pipeline where its like: | 18:59 |
| nkinder | morganfainberg: that's the same conclusion I was arriving at. Leave the default behavior as it is today, change horizon, then switch the default down the road | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | ok lets take this back to -keystone | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | thanks everyone! | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | auth_plugins biz_rule1 2 3 4 sign_token _persist | 18:59 |
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| morganfainberg | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 18:59:47 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-05-27-18.01.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-05-27-18.01.txt | 18:59 |
| nkinder | ah, it's time already... Thanks for letting me hijack the second half of the meeting | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-05-27-18.01.log.html | 18:59 |
| fungi | hey-o! | 19:00 |
| jeblair | infra folks? | 19:00 |
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| rdopiera | hello | 19:00 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:00 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 19:00:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:00 |
| jeblair | agenda ^ | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-20-19.02.html | 19:00 |
| jeblair | previous meeting ^ | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:00 |
| jeblair | fungi add a wait for acl file creation on gerrit project initialization | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:00 | |
| fungi | jeblair: lemme find the review and see if it merged | 19:00 |
| jeblair | fungi: istr you put a patch up for that | 19:01 |
| clarkb | o/ | 19:01 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | but we didn't test it with the recent batch of creates | 19:01 |
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| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94684/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | i think SergeyLukjanov submitted a patch to create a specs repo | 19:01 |
| fungi | looks like i wuo'd it | 19:01 |
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| fungi | wip'd | 19:01 |
| jeblair | should we try to use it for that create? | 19:01 |
| clarkb | yes, SergeyLukjanov has a change up for sahara-specs I have +2'd it looks good | 19:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, i do | 19:02 |
| fungi | need to rework it to jive with sdague's https://review.openstack.org/94196 error handling | 19:02 |
| fungi | i'll do that right after the wrap up the meeting | 19:02 |
| fungi | right after we | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #topic manage-projects status (fungi) | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "manage-projects status (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | i think we kind of just did that | 19:03 |
| fungi | yup | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #topic A home for Devstack within Infra (anteaya) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "A home for Devstack within Infra (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | home is where you hang your devstack | 19:03 |
| anteaya | so right now the devstack docs aren't under the infra umbrella | 19:03 |
| anteaya | it would be helpful if they were | 19:03 |
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| anteaya | dtroyer is amenable to that | 19:03 |
| anteaya | two things are needed | 19:03 |
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| clarkb | anteaya: you mean the stuff on devstack.org? | 19:04 |
| anteaya | someone at the foundation willing for anotherjesse to transfer the devstack.org name to | 19:04 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:04 |
| anteaya | and an ip for the stuff | 19:04 |
| anteaya | thoughts? | 19:04 |
| jeblair | that would probably be jbryce; i believe he has handled most of the domain transfers | 19:04 |
| fungi | was anyone able to get in touch with anotherjessee about it? | 19:04 |
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| anteaya | yes | 19:04 |
| anteaya | dtroyer had that chat | 19:04 |
| fungi | okay, great | 19:04 |
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| anteaya | anotherjessee is willing to make the transfer | 19:04 |
| anteaya | we just need someone to catch | 19:05 |
| jeblair | i believe that jbryce and sparkycollier would be happy for that to happen | 19:05 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:05 |
| anteaya | so I will track down jbryce and see if he can coordinate with anotherjesse | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: Jonathan Bryce <jonathan@openstack.org>, Mark Collier <mark@openstack.org> | 19:05 |
| anteaya | great | 19:05 |
| clarkb | we should be able to start publishing the docs to a new location now too | 19:05 |
| anteaya | which leaves the ip | 19:05 |
| clarkb | they justwon't be available at devstack.org | 19:05 |
| anteaya | so what server do we want them to live on | 19:05 |
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| anteaya | and if we have devstack.org, we can control where folks land when they use it | 19:06 |
| fungi | i assume we just create another rackspace cloudsites site and use the same docs jobs we're using for docs.o.o, developer.o.o, et cetera | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | maybe docs.openstack.org/developer/devstack would be okay | 19:06 |
| jeblair | that's where project docs usually live | 19:06 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I like that | 19:07 |
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| fungi | or that, and a redirect at devstack.org | 19:07 |
| fungi | me too | 19:07 |
| clarkb | annegentle: ^ are you around? | 19:07 |
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| anteaya | dtroyer isn't here right now, but I would like his input on the path | 19:07 |
| anteaya | but for now I can get the domain transfer underway | 19:07 |
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| anteaya | and hope to hear from dtroyer by next week | 19:07 |
| jeblair | anteaya: ++ we can work out the rest later | 19:07 |
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| fungi | probably just worth noting that we can either host content at devstack.org or have it redirect to an existing docs site and get the interested parties to weigh in | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | fungi: yep | 19:08 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ++ for docs.openstack.org/developer/devstack and redirect from devstack.org | 19:08 |
| jeblair | anteaya: end of topic? | 19:08 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:08 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:08 |
| mordred | well | 19:08 |
| jeblair | thank you! | 19:08 |
| jeblair | mordred: oh? | 19:08 |
| mordred | we should probably figure out the docs build | 19:08 |
| mordred | they're in gh-pages right now | 19:09 |
| mordred | shouldn't be hard - but that's not how we do other thigns | 19:09 |
| anteaya | I'd like dtroyer here for this part | 19:09 |
| fungi | yeah, that's a task to add to the list... get docs building so they can be uploaded in cooked format rather than raw | 19:09 |
| anteaya | can we continue this next week? | 19:09 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:09 |
| jeblair | mordred: well 'gh-pages' isn't so much a build thing as a publish thing | 19:09 |
| jeblair | mordred: and i think the conversation so far has been about changing how we publish it | 19:09 |
| mordred | jeblair: yes. except I think gh-page will auto-render md for you? | 19:10 |
| mordred | jeblair: sure - just saying - the thing that puts things in gh-pages may need to be investigated - it's possible it's a human | 19:10 |
| anteaya | dtroyer has some specific things he is looking for | 19:10 |
| jeblair | mordred: yeah, i think it's static content | 19:10 |
| fungi | right, presumably there are some additional transformations which will need to be applied to the current source to turn it into something we can put on a webserver | 19:10 |
| anteaya | and it is best if I let him tell you | 19:10 |
| mordred | kk | 19:10 |
| fungi | or maybe it's just straight html in which case no need | 19:10 |
| jeblair | mordred: once we have a publishing method for the content, then we have a known way to change the content. | 19:10 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:11 |
| jeblair | #topic Third Party CI Gerrit Account name format (anteaya) | 19:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Third Party CI Gerrit Account name format (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:11 | |
| anteaya | okay so on the linked etherpad | 19:11 |
| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-infra-improving-3rd-party-testing | 19:11 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:11 |
| anteaya | there was a request for standardization of third party ci names | 19:11 |
| anteaya | for email filtering | 19:11 |
| anteaya | and it has also come up on the ml for filtering for gerrit js | 19:12 |
| anteaya | how do we decide a new format? | 19:12 |
| fungi | yeah, we didn't get time to discuss it at that summit session, but i stuck it on there just because i've been asked for it a few times as well (in regard to e-mail filtering) | 19:12 |
| anteaya | then how to we get current accounts to comply with the new format? | 19:12 |
| krtaylor_ | That was me | 19:12 |
| jeblair | something like "Foo CI" ? | 19:12 |
| anteaya | yay krtaylor_ | 19:12 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I like Foo Bot | 19:12 |
| fungi | krtaylor_: oh, perhaps you read my mind then ;) thanks! | 19:13 |
| jeblair | anteaya: we're going to ask third party ci folks to make several changes; i think we should do it all at once... | 19:13 |
| clarkb | because we may want bots to do other things | 19:13 |
| * anteaya nods | 19:13 | |
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| anteaya | and there was a comment on the email list that there are more bots than just ci bots | 19:13 |
| jeblair | anteaya: so that means getting the new wiki pages set up, and making sure we have each of the new reqs documented | 19:13 |
| ianw | clarkb: bot seems like a common suffix, so you might have foobot bot? | 19:13 |
| anteaya | so perhaps more than one filter | 19:13 |
| fungi | right, the consensus so far had been that we should have a pattern which identifies clearly that the account is for an automated system and able to differentiate whether it's a third-party system or one run by infra | 19:13 |
| jeblair | anteaya: then i think we ask them all to change once that is all in order | 19:13 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:13 |
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| anteaya | sounds fair | 19:13 |
| fungi | and i think the welcome message account should probably get exempted from that | 19:14 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:14 |
| anteaya | so there are bots | 19:14 |
| anteaya | there is ci | 19:14 |
| clarkb | and there is third party | 19:14 |
| anteaya | there is the welcome message account | 19:14 |
| anteaya | is third party the same set as ci? | 19:14 |
| jeblair | there's the proposal bot -- are there any other bots that are not 3rd party ci or welcome message? | 19:15 |
| fungi | "jenkins" | 19:15 |
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| anteaya | what is the project creator bot | 19:15 |
| fungi | anteaya: that one doesn't comment | 19:15 |
| Ajaeger | "OpenStack Proposal Bot" ;) | 19:15 |
| mordred | I can't think of any others that leave comments righ tnow | 19:15 |
| anteaya | so it sounds like we have to list all the accounts affected by this as a starting point | 19:15 |
| Ajaeger | but that one does not comment | 19:15 |
| anteaya | then decided on categories | 19:15 |
| fungi | we did have "trivial rebase" commenting, but that's gone with gerrit 2.8 | 19:16 |
| anteaya | then select a keyword that a regex can isolate | 19:16 |
| jeblair | i'm just not sure that we need to design a naming system that accomodates the proposal bot... it does something very different than 3rd party ci and doesn't leave comments | 19:16 |
| anteaya | I can start an etherpad listing everthing and then we can work on categorizeing them in a way we agree on | 19:16 |
| mgagne | jeblair: I think you missed elastic recheck bot | 19:16 |
| ianw | would some api-type service that returns some json describing current bot names work? seems that could plug in easily to gerritjs | 19:16 |
| jeblair | mgagne: thank you! | 19:16 |
| mordred | I think we should have this on the full name and the username - so "SmokeStack CI" and "smokestack-ci" for instance? | 19:16 |
| mordred | mgagne: ++ | 19:17 |
| krtaylor_ | I am good with anything as long as it is standardized | 19:17 |
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| fungi | i think it's sufficient if we decide in the meeting that it should be done, what eth basic parameters are, and then leave the specifics to hash out in a spec/ml thread/code review | 19:17 |
| mordred | ianw: I think people also want to be able to do email filters to not see emails of comments from ci bots | 19:17 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:17 |
| clarkb | fungi: ++ | 19:17 |
| anteaya | it should be done | 19:18 |
| jeblair | so how about "Foo CI" and "Bar Bot" depending on whether you are, well, a ci system or a bot.... | 19:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fungi ++ | 19:18 |
| clarkb | jeblair: wfm | 19:18 |
| fungi | that seems sane enough | 19:18 |
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| fungi | whatever we settle on should be encoded in our third-party account documentation | 19:18 |
| jeblair | yup | 19:18 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:18 |
| jeblair | #topic Review Third Party wiki template (anteaya) | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Third Party wiki template (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:19 | |
| fungi | we should start composing the visible names of the accounts ourselves at account creation based on info provided by the requesters | 19:19 |
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| anteaya | oh me again | 19:19 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Template:ThirdPartySystemInfoSubst | 19:19 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:19 |
| jeblair | yup, i'm reordering | 19:19 |
| anteaya | there is a template | 19:19 |
| anteaya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/third-party-wiki-templating | 19:20 |
| anteaya | this is the etherpad I am working from for the templating | 19:20 |
| clarkb | the template looks good to me | 19:20 |
| clarkb | it captures informantion that would allow me to udnerstand what is going on | 19:20 |
| anteaya | great, thanks | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems | 19:20 |
| fungi | we do need to make sure it's fairly comprehensive before we ask the operators to start filling it out, since we don't want to have to keep going back to them all asking for new bits | 19:20 |
| jeblair | that's also nice to see ^ | 19:20 |
| anteaya | Ajaeger put it together for me | 19:20 |
| jeblair | i think that's illustrating how the page structure will come together; i like it | 19:21 |
| anteaya | great | 19:21 |
| Ajaeger | teamwork with anteaya and fungi! | 19:21 |
| anteaya | I'll work on the other template for the openstack programs template | 19:21 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:21 |
| anteaya | I just needed some initial feedback to ensure we were going in the right direction | 19:22 |
| anteaya | I have what I need from this topic | 19:22 |
| fungi | once we collect info on what projects the operators think they should be voting on, we can start rolling out tighter acls limiting them to that | 19:22 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:22 |
| clarkb | fungi: ya and/or just give tem the ability to manage them | 19:22 |
| Ajaeger | anteaya: fifieldt started with this one for programs: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Template:ProjectBox | 19:22 |
| fungi | clarkb: right | 19:23 |
| anteaya | Ajaeger: interesting | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: maybe it's implied in structure, but maybe not... | 19:23 |
| jeblair | anteaya: but a description of what is being tested and how would be useful for devs | 19:23 |
| fungi | clarkb: we could set the neutron-tpt group owned by neutron-core for example | 19:23 |
| anteaya | I will make it explict | 19:23 |
| anteaya | I don't find implying anything works with this group | 19:23 |
| jeblair | eg, "we test patches on our super-expensive network switch thingy in such and such configuration" | 19:24 |
| anteaya | great | 19:24 |
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| anteaya | I will expand that section | 19:24 |
| jeblair | #topic How do we want to handle patches to openstack_project and openstack tooling that fix downstream issues. | 19:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "How do we want to handle patches to openstack_project and openstack tooling that fix downstream issues. (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:24 | |
| jeblair | clarkb: i think that's you? | 19:25 |
| clarkb | yup | 19:25 |
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| clarkb | so on the agenda are links to a couple examples of changes that update openstack_project to make it useable by downstreams | 19:25 |
| jeblair | sdague: ping | 19:25 |
| clarkb | I don't want to chase people away when they do those things, but I think that we are misplacing effort | 19:25 |
| clarkb | openstack_project is well the openstack project | 19:25 |
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| clarkb | we will do domain specific things tehre and IMO allowing for every use case is a bit overboard there | 19:26 |
| mordred | I agree that it's the openstack project - but I think there is a bunch of stuff in it that doesn't need to be there | 19:26 |
| clarkb | would be good to come up with a consistent way of addressing these things | 19:26 |
| clarkb | mordred: yup agreed | 19:26 |
| mordred | like, I don't think openstack_project needs to be very configurable | 19:26 |
| mordred | but I _do_ think a bunch can get refactored out into things that are more re-usable | 19:26 |
| mordred | s/very// | 19:27 |
| clarkb | personally I would like to see refactors instead like jesusaur's jenkins reorg | 19:27 |
| fungi | i definitely don't want to see us extracting all the variables out of o_p into the global site manifest, for example | 19:27 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:27 |
| mordred | (to both) | 19:27 |
| mordred | I think also AaronGr's heira-in-tree can help us to have _less_ parameters in openstack_project | 19:27 |
| mordred | because many of them are there for passthrough needs | 19:27 |
| mordred | and not because we need parameters | 19:28 |
| fungi | yeah, that has led to a major spaghetti effect | 19:28 |
| mordred | so - if the refactors actually make things cleaner and simpler, I think theyre awesome | 19:28 |
| mordred | and I'd love to stop having to plumb variables through 6 layers of use | 19:28 |
| rcarrillocruz | ++ | 19:28 |
| wenlock | clarkb we had the same battle when starting to consume config as upstream... it was natural for us to make our own <project>_project , but we also came back with a need for an instance specific module which held more of this config integration with parameters. | 19:29 |
| jesusaur | I think that moving most of the puppet modules out into their own repos would help define the line: openstack-infra/config should be openstack_project and manifests/site.pp (which don't need to be configurable), other modules and projects should be more configurable and reusable | 19:29 |
| wenlock | moving things to a hiera tree has been helping us alot | 19:29 |
| fungi | distilled, if the change makes it easier for downstreams *and* us to modify, it's worthwhile | 19:29 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87384/ is instructive | 19:30 |
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| fungi | and yeah, like jesusaur mentions, we should continue to push for bits people want to reuse to go down into the individual modules when it can be done cleanly, rather than just accepting that everyone tried to reuse openstack_project directly | 19:30 |
| mordred | jeblair: yeah. that's the other aspect of this question | 19:31 |
| jeblair | it's not pupput; it's shell code that we use to build our images | 19:31 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya so that is the other type of change we see | 19:31 |
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| mordred | I think we should take those case-by-case - tbh | 19:31 |
| jeblair | i mean, it's super easy for a downstream to replace it with their own scripts | 19:31 |
| jeblair | but, otoh, apparently ours are 99.9% good enough | 19:31 |
| mordred | in this case, I think the move to dib will obviate teh need for that patch - and a class of that type of patch | 19:32 |
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| clarkb | mordred: to a degree | 19:32 |
| mordred | but it's still illustrative of a person who needs a feature that wants to go into ours, and it's not a feature we'll ever need | 19:32 |
| clarkb | but the jenkins scripts fall under that category now too | 19:32 |
| jeblair | so maybe that's a matter of just weighing the extra cost; if it's a few lines of "dead" (to us at least) code, sure. but if it's more, then we say it's better to use new scripts | 19:32 |
| mordred | but it facilitates them not forking a script they could otherwise consume | 19:32 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:32 |
| clarkb | mordred: well so you shouldn't have to fork right? | 19:32 |
| clarkb | you just set the variable in your wrapper script and exec ours | 19:32 |
| jeblair | clarkb: that's a good approach to this case | 19:33 |
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| mordred | clarkb: yes. except the actual mechanics there are hard | 19:33 |
| clarkb | mordred: export FOO=bar ; exec script is hard? | 19:33 |
| mordred | because the scripts are in openstack_project, which is not really a thing you're likely to be consuming directly | 19:33 |
| jeblair | mordred: well, we essentially already do that ourselves | 19:33 |
| fungi | what i would see as a "good" compromise there would be to refactor some of our scripts to make them better building blocks which can be more easily called from downstream scripts/tooling | 19:33 |
| clarkb | fungi: ++ | 19:34 |
| jeblair | fungi: they already are somewhat blocky -- more specific ones call less specific ones | 19:34 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ - but also what jeblair said above, which is that I think we should weight the costs as those come up | 19:34 |
| mordred | and know that we don't want to add senseless complexity | 19:34 |
| fungi | yep, i agree they're mostly that way already | 19:34 |
| mordred | but oftentimes such refactors help us too | 19:34 |
| mordred | kinda like the devstack-gate hook functions | 19:35 |
| clarkb | yup | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: (i think you should suggest the script callout on that patch, see what the authors think) | 19:35 |
| clarkb | jeblair: will do | 19:35 |
| mordred | clarkb: or, tell them to wait for the dib refactor, which already has a different way of dealing with proxies and local content injection | 19:36 |
| clarkb | so I think we haev agreement that we should push towards proper refactoring for reconsumption | 19:36 |
| mordred | clarkb: ++ | 19:36 |
| clarkb | if the change is minor then ok | 19:36 |
| jeblair | i was hoping sdague would be around to talk about how this affects test-matrix | 19:36 |
| clarkb | ya so test-matrix is the other thing | 19:36 |
| clarkb | mordred: have you fermeted on that more? | 19:37 |
| clarkb | *fermented | 19:37 |
| * jeblair is worried that he fomented | 19:37 | |
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| clarkb | tl;dr on that is again we have instructiev code that determines how we test stuff | 19:39 |
| clarkb | and others would like to make it instructive for not upstream openstack | 19:39 |
| clarkb | which bothers me because it is clearly an openstack specific tool for upstream testing | 19:39 |
| mordred | yeah - I mean | 19:39 |
| clarkb | and we can't test the downstream use case at all | 19:39 |
| mordred | I don't think it's a specific openstack tool | 19:40 |
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| mordred | I think we've spent a lot of time telling people to re-use the tools we've written for their internal testing and they've listended | 19:40 |
| clarkb | mordred: it is used to deploy from source openstack clouds | 19:40 |
| clarkb | so that they can be tested | 19:40 |
| mordred | yes | 19:40 |
| mordred | I believe we have tons of people now wanting to replicate this infrastructure that we've built to do exactly that thing | 19:40 |
| clarkb | but they don't want to replicate the development model | 19:41 |
| jesusaur | clarkb: what do you mean? | 19:41 |
| mordred | what I'm saying is that I don't think test-matrix is necessarily or has to necessarily be "upstream only" | 19:41 |
| clarkb | jesusaur: openstack is very particluar in its dev flow in order to handle 1k devs | 19:41 |
| mordred | in fact, I think sean has done a good job of making it a thing which takes data to make decisions | 19:41 |
| clarkb | jesusaur: other folks want to mix it up for their 1k folks | 19:42 |
| clarkb | mordred: right so we discussed making those bits more properly config, but you didn't like that for some reason | 19:42 |
| clarkb | (I forget what the actual concern was) | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | mordred: i don't see how we can keep putting test variations into test-matrix that we don't test; i don't think we can review them intelligently, and i think it will hurt what we're trying to do by making it more complex | 19:42 |
| mordred | jeblair: I do not think we shoudl do that at all, so I agree | 19:42 |
| jeblair | mordred: i think for downstream test configs, that has to live outside of d-g and test-matrix, but we can facilitate that with plugin/hook points, etc. | 19:43 |
| fungi | yeah, i do worry that our current branch handling is already jenga-like to the point where we risk even impacting our own use cases (when a change ends up modifying a behavior we weren't testing well enough) | 19:43 |
| jeblair | clarkb: a config file sounds ideal to me... | 19:43 |
| mordred | yah. agreed | 19:43 |
| mordred | I think the main concern I had ... | 19:43 |
| jeblair | fungi: i think we should have a giant jenga thing at the next summit | 19:43 |
| fungi | jeblair: it should be the THEME of the next summity | 19:43 |
| mordred | is that we keep in mind that someone may want to wholesale consume our config for test-matrix as well, and simply to suppliment it | 19:43 |
| jeblair | mordred: sounds reasonable | 19:44 |
| mordred | but, I think we keep that in mind generally, so it shoudln't be a big departure | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: end of topic? | 19:44 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes Ithink so | 19:44 |
| jeblair | cool | 19:44 |
| jeblair | #topic About splitting Horizon repo in two parts (rdopiera) | 19:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "About splitting Horizon repo in two parts (rdopiera) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:44 | |
| clarkb | basically push to refactoring and config rather than instructive code changes | 19:44 |
| mordred | clarkb: I believe our disagreement is that I wanted to add awareness of branch prefixing to our branch fallback algorithm | 19:45 |
| sdague | jeblair: just back from CSA pickup, what's up? | 19:45 |
| mordred | clarkb: but I think that's out of scope for now | 19:45 |
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| mordred | ooh! splitting horizon! | 19:45 |
| rdopiera | so I came to ask for advice, because we are going to do some changes in the horizon's repos, and we want to know the best way to proceed | 19:45 |
| jeblair | sdague: read previous topic fyi and possible further discussion, but we need to move on now i think | 19:45 |
| * mordred is excited | 19:45 | |
| jeblair | rdopiera: we're very excited! splitting them should make a lot of things easier! | 19:46 |
| rdopiera | basically what we plan to do is to have a separate repo for the library and the application parts of horizon, plus a bunch of packages for all the js libraries | 19:46 |
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| fungi | rdopiera: please clarify what you mean by "packages" in that sense | 19:46 |
| rdopiera | the js libraries part I already started on, we are using xstatic to package them, and putting them on stackforge | 19:46 |
| fungi | got it ;) | 19:46 |
| krotscheck | This is the “use pip to package javascript things” discussion, yes? | 19:46 |
| rdopiera | xstatic is basically a minimal python package with the js libraries as data files in it | 19:47 |
| clarkb | krotscheck: partially yes | 19:47 |
| rdopiera | and some metadata | 19:47 |
| rdopiera | so it can be installed from pypi, etc. | 19:47 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: have you put any in stackforge yet? | 19:47 |
| fungi | this is as opposed to installing the js bits via npm and everything else via pip? | 19:47 |
| clarkb | the change to add them all to stackforge is proposed | 19:47 |
| rdopiera | jeblair: there is a patch | 19:47 |
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| clarkb | fungi: correct | 19:48 |
| rdopiera | that part is the easy part | 19:48 |
| rdopiera | what I would like to ask all of you about is tackling the horizon's code itself | 19:48 |
| rdopiera | we were thinking about cloning the repo, and removing half the files in each of them | 19:48 |
| fungi | that does make them somewhat less consumable to the broader js community/ecosystem, though if horizon's dashboard is the only consumer right now then i don't suppose it's much of a concern | 19:48 |
| rdopiera | this way we retain the history and the patch queue on one of them | 19:48 |
| rdopiera | fungi: MoinMoin 2 also uses the same system | 19:49 |
| Ajaeger | rdopiera: this might need changes to the translation jobs, please add this to your todo list. | 19:49 |
| jeblair | let's tackle the repo split first | 19:49 |
| rdopiera | fungi: and we hope more apps will use it with time | 19:49 |
| clarkb | rdopiera: typically the way we do this is by git filter branching the initial state of one repo | 19:49 |
| clarkb | then in the other repo submit a change t odelete the excess | 19:49 |
| SergeyLukjanov | honestly, I'm feeling some inconsistence when see pip handling js libs | 19:49 |
| fungi | rdopiera: right, the git repo split can be fairly easily handled via git filter-branch *if* the files which go in each repo are fairly well separated already | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | rdopiera: which will be in the "horizon" repo? the dashboard or library? | 19:50 |
| rdopiera | fungi: they are separated | 19:50 |
| rdopiera | jeblair: the openstack_dashboard will get renamed to horizon, and the horizon (library) will get renamed to django-horizon | 19:50 |
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| fungi | and also i'm curious to know what the release model will become for each (both still integrated releases? library switching to ad-hoc with no stable branches?) | 19:51 |
| rdopiera | jeblair: so the patch queue will stay with dashboard, which I think is good, because most changes are there | 19:51 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: cool, that makes sense. | 19:51 |
| anteaya | would webui work in there at all for naming | 19:51 |
| rdopiera | fungi: simultaneus release, from what I understand | 19:51 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: so we can help with the filter branch when you're ready | 19:52 |
| anteaya | isn't that what we are doing with storyboard and vinz? | 19:52 |
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| clarkb | anteaya: the architecture of the two is different | 19:52 |
| anteaya | oh okay | 19:52 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: or if you want to do it, you can just host the new repo somewhere | 19:52 |
| rdopiera | django-horizon is mostly front-end stuff, like widgets and views | 19:52 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: and when we create the project, import it from there | 19:52 |
| rdopiera | jeblair: that sounds good, because I can test different approaches then | 19:53 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: i think that the horizon repo will still have the history for both projects though | 19:53 |
| clarkb | yup and I tink it should | 19:53 |
| rdopiera | yes, that's fine | 19:53 |
| jeblair | ok | 19:53 |
| clarkb | because we need to track that they became two at some point | 19:53 |
| fungi | right, most likely outcome is that the old library bits get deleted from the horizon repo in one mass commit | 19:53 |
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| rdopiera | that commit will probably invalidate a lot of patches in the queue, but the sooner we do it, the better | 19:54 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: i think what you may want to do is to "freeze" the library inside of horizon, create the new project, then get it working in devstack-gate, then rm the lib from horizon | 19:54 |
| rdopiera | jeblair: sorry, what is devstack-gate? | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | rdopiera: it's what we used to do integration testing of all the projects | 19:55 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: it uses devstack to install everything and runs tempest | 19:55 |
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| rdopiera | I will look for it, thank you | 19:55 |
| fungi | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/git-review/tree/README.rst | 19:56 |
| fungi | er, wrong link | 19:56 |
| fungi | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/devstack-gate/tree/README.rst | 19:56 |
| clarkb | close :) | 19:56 |
| fungi | (silly clipboard!) | 19:56 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: so i expect there to be some patches to devstack and devstack-gate after the new project is created | 19:56 |
| rdopiera | ok, thank you everyone | 19:56 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: sdague, dtroyer, and i can help out with those parts | 19:56 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: thank you! | 19:56 |
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| jeblair | rdopiera: so we don't have a lot of time, and i'm not sure this is the best forum for the discussion anyway, but the other half of this, the xstatic part, interests some of the people here | 19:57 |
| sdague | jeblair: sounds good | 19:57 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: is there a mailing list thread about it? | 19:57 |
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| rdopiera | jeblair: we had a design session on that https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-summit-horizon-static-files | 19:58 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: so that people can learn about it or discuss? particularly, i want to make sure that zigo weighs in on it | 19:58 |
| rdopiera | jeblair: and there is an e-mail with some summary of progress here: | 19:58 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: because i recall from the design session that there was a lot of talk about doing this to help debian, but zigo wasn't actually there | 19:59 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes and red hat iirc | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | red hat was there and seemed okay with xstatic | 19:59 |
| mordred | yah - I also have an extreme view myself that it's not our job to make things easier on the distros | 19:59 |
| rdopiera | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-May/035370.html | 19:59 |
| clarkb | but fedora does have npm now so I don't know | 19:59 |
| mordred | but rather to do the thigns that make sense for us | 19:59 |
| fungi | pabelanger has also expressed a desire to be able to pip-install the django lib | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | rdopiera: also, mordred had an idea about using pbr and nodeenv to build things at tarball creation time | 20:00 |
| mordred | yup | 20:00 |
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| rdopiera | mordred: xstatic is actually designed with easy packaging for distros in mind | 20:00 |
| jeblair | so i want to make sure zigo and mordred have an opportunity to chime in | 20:00 |
| mordred | rdopiera: right. I don't share that as a goal | 20:00 |
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| rdopiera | mordred: you can configure it to keep the actual files in any place | 20:00 |
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| mordred | I share participating in and with upstreams more in mind | 20:00 |
| mordred | and if the distros can't figure out javascript, then they'll be replaced by distros that can figure out javascript | 20:01 |
| mordred | but like I said, I'm an extremist | 20:01 |
| jeblair | and i think we're out of time | 20:01 |
| mordred | :) | 20:01 |
| jeblair | rdopiera: thanks! | 20:01 |
| mordred | rdopiera: ++ | 20:01 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:01 | |
| rdopiera | can we continue it tomorrow in -infra? | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 20:01:21 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-27-19.00.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-27-19.00.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-27-19.00.log.html | 20:01 |
| mordred | rdopiera: always! | 20:01 |
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| fungi | rdopiera: please to! | 20:01 |
| fungi | do! | 20:01 |
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| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:01 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:02 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:02 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | russellb, markmc, annegentle, mikal, mordred, devananda, jaypipes: around ? | 20:02 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:02 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:02 |
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| markmc | howdy | 20:02 |
| annegentle | yep | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 20:03:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| zehicle_at_dell | o/ | 20:03 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:03 |
| mikal | Morning | 20:03 |
| ttx | Here is our agenda for today: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
| ttx | david-lyle: around? | 20:03 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Gap coverage plan for Horizon | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Gap coverage plan for Horizon (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | Last week we did a gap analysis for Horizon | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-gap-analysis | 20:03 |
| ttx | A number of gaps were identified: | 20:03 |
| ttx | * Scope needs to be documented | 20:03 |
| ttx | * Refresh of horizon-coresec needed | 20:04 |
| ttx | * Integration test framework tied to gate | 20:04 |
| ttx | * Non-standard test/packaging/translation tooling due to combined projects in one repo | 20:04 |
| ttx | Two non-blocking remarks were made: | 20:04 |
| ttx | * A major architectural change is planned (split of repo into toolkit and django app) | 20:04 |
| ttx | * Would be nice to have a listing of API calls not available in GUI per service | 20:04 |
| ttx | david-lyle: Do you have a plan to address the gaps in the near future ? | 20:04 |
| david-lyle | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Horizon_Gap_Coverage | 20:04 |
| david-lyle | missed the non-standard tooling item | 20:04 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Horizon_Gap_Coverage | 20:05 |
| david-lyle | will have to amend | 20:05 |
| jeblair | well, in the last meeting rdopiera came to talk about splitting the horizon repo | 20:05 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:05 |
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| ttx | david-lyle: plan looks good to me | 20:06 |
| jeblair | so i'm optimistic that will get better soon, though it doesn't necessarily follow that everything will become more standard | 20:06 |
| markmc | nicely done david-lyle | 20:06 |
| ttx | Any objection on the proposed plan ? | 20:06 |
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| annegentle | david-lyle: where will you document the gaps? | 20:07 |
| david-lyle | jeblair: there is a larger issue in the community regarding nodejs | 20:07 |
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| sdague | ttx: lgtm | 20:07 |
| david-lyle | annegentle: good question, likely on w.o.o | 20:07 |
| david-lyle | I think it's too transient to put anywhere in the code base | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | what is "Exhaustive list of API calls not supported"? Is that calls into other projects that horizon doesn't use anywhere? | 20:08 |
| ttx | #info Gap coverage plan looks sane, will review for progress after milestones | 20:09 |
| annegentle | david-lyle: sounds good to me, was going to suggest wiki | 20:09 |
| david-lyle | dhellmann, the goal is find areas where Horizon doesn't match features exposed by the CLI | 20:09 |
| david-lyle | that is a common complaint against Horizon | 20:10 |
| ttx | Anything else on that topic ? | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | ok, maybe consider rephrasing that gap in the way you just said it because it wasn't obvious what was meant by the current wording | 20:10 |
| david-lyle | we're hoping to fill those gaps, so users aren't forced to switch to CLI to accomplish certain tasks | 20:11 |
| david-lyle | dhellmann: sure | 20:11 |
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| markmcclain | david-lyle: I'd also suggest maybe breaking out into subsets for each project | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | otherwise it all looks good | 20:11 |
| ttx | OK then, let's move on to next topic | 20:11 |
| ttx | david-lyle: many thanks! | 20:11 |
| david-lyle | markmcclain: yes | 20:11 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: around? | 20:11 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | o/ | 20:12 |
| ttx | #topic "TC direction" 0.5 scores refinement on Defcore scoring page | 20:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ""TC direction" 0.5 scores refinement on Defcore scoring page (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:12 | |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/w/images/e/e3/DefCore_Capabilities_Scoring.pdf | 20:12 |
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| ttx | So we wanted to double-check the scoring on that page, especially the "TC direction" column and those 0.5 scores | 20:13 |
| zehicle_at_dell | DefCore meeting last week also wanted to get TC input on how to handle scoring going into the future | 20:13 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: FWIW I formally contacted the PTLs to help on those unscored lines | 20:13 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | that's likely a dedicated meeting topic | 20:13 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | ttx, thanks | 20:13 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: yes | 20:13 |
| zehicle_at_dell | let me know how we can help. I'll make myself available | 20:13 |
| ttx | I looked at the current scores in htat column and they make sense to me | 20:13 |
| zehicle_at_dell | We're making a point of finding a good time for mikal at the next meeting | 20:13 |
| ttx | Anyone would like to suggest different scores for any of those ? | 20:13 |
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| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: I haven't gotten around to that yet, but I think I'll want to sit down with you to work through the nova ones some time in the next week | 20:14 |
| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: I will also reply to the meeting time email today | 20:14 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ttx, was wondering how the TC wanted to collect feedback about scores that need discussion. was thinking gerrit like process | 20:14 |
| zehicle_at_dell | but happy to do it more interactive if that's the preference | 20:14 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: trying to determine how much we need to tweak them | 20:15 |
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| annegentle | zehicle_at_dell: I should know this, but how can I get a deeper description of a capability, such as compute-auth? | 20:15 |
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| annegentle | zehicle_at_dell: in tempest itself? | 20:15 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ttx, we starting thinking ahead into the Icehouse & Juno reviews. Assuming that we start from Havana and then need to discuss line by line | 20:15 |
| markmc | definitely would be good to have a way of tracking the discussion that went into any particular score | 20:15 |
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| markmc | but it is looking fairly reasonable to me | 20:16 |
| zehicle_at_dell | #link https://github.com/stackforge/refstack/tree/master/defcore/havana | 20:16 |
| ttx | I think we can do hte havana one interactively but yes, some more gerrit-driven approach would sclae better for future occurences | 20:16 |
| zehicle_at_dell | annegentle, we want to add more detail to the capability json file | 20:16 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ttx, +1 on that. would like to get a discussion about that on a future TC agenda then | 20:17 |
| zehicle_at_dell | hopefully, next releases are just deltas | 20:17 |
| sdague | annegentle: the answer *should* be in tempest itself, however our docs aren't what they should be either. | 20:17 |
| sdague | annegentle: so it would mostly involve reading code at this point | 20:17 |
| zehicle_at_dell | sdague, that's why we need to roll up into capabilities | 20:17 |
| ttx | #action ttx to schedlue discussion on future scoring process at a future TC meeting | 20:17 |
| zehicle_at_dell | even getting short descriptions into that capabilities.json would be a great step for users | 20:18 |
| sdague | zehicle_at_dell: yep. We also talked a lot about new doc standards in tempest that would go a long way here | 20:18 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: looks like the current scoring is good enough. That only leaves the unscored lines | 20:18 |
| sdague | honestly, random folks using tempest need this info too, so I'd love to get it baked back i nthere | 20:18 |
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| mordred | ++ | 20:18 |
| zehicle_at_dell | sdague, +1 | 20:18 |
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| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: for the unscored lines you should try to extract data frmo PTLs first | 20:19 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: we can get involved if that process gets stuck, I guess | 20:19 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ttx, yes. was going that route. was hoping to collaborate on it w/ TCs | 20:19 |
| sdague | totally happy to do it in a way that would make it easily / machine extractable for defcore | 20:19 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: did any of the PTLs conact you yet ? | 20:19 |
| markmc | zehicle_at_dell, mapping to tempest tests here: https://github.com/stackforge/refstack/blob/master/defcore/havana/capabilities.json | 20:19 |
| zehicle_at_dell | Swift | 20:19 |
| markmc | sorry, that was for annegentle | 20:19 |
| zehicle_at_dell | notmyname, has been pretty engaged | 20:19 |
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| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: I suspect mikal will engage at the next meeting if he can make it | 20:20 |
| zehicle_at_dell | (which brings up the other topics we need help with - designated sections) mikal is working with us on that | 20:20 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: that leaves jgriffith | 20:20 |
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| mikal | Yes, mikal feels guilt about this and means to get to it ASAP | 20:20 |
| zehicle_at_dell | yes, jgriffith (thinking @notmyname twitter) | 20:20 |
| zehicle_at_dell | mikal, I'm working on a blog about designated sections. Would be happy to co-author with you. I'll send you a link | 20:21 |
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| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: cool, let's talk about it in email | 20:21 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: looks like those 0.5 scores actually reflect reality after all | 20:21 |
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| annegentle | thanks markmc zehicle_at_dell | 20:22 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: anything more you need at this point ? | 20:22 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | timeframe? | 20:22 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I'd like everyone on board w/ timing | 20:22 |
| zehicle_at_dell | since we'd like to have the advisory Havana list compelete for community review by 7/4 | 20:23 |
| zehicle_at_dell | so that we can have the board approve it at the OSCON meeting | 20:23 |
| zehicle_at_dell | that means all the .5s, the missing sections and (ideally) designated code for the impacted projects | 20:23 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: zehicle_at_dell I can help with the Cinder sections, but had some q's for zehicle_at_dell | 20:24 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: you mean we shouldn't leave any 0.5 ? I think they were acceptable scores ? | 20:24 |
| jgriffith | maybe after the meeting? | 20:24 |
| ttx | jgriffith: yes | 20:24 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ttx, we were trying to make it binary for now | 20:24 |
| markmc | ttx, AIUI 0.5 == FIXME :) | 20:25 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: ah! sorry, totally missed that. | 20:25 |
| zehicle_at_dell | we were using .5 as a place holder for revuew needed. yes | 20:25 |
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| ttx | Hmm, then I think we'll have to come up with a formal proposal | 20:25 |
| ttx | and Gerrit it | 20:25 |
| ttx | any TC member up for drafting a binary proposal for the TC direction column ? | 20:25 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ttx, we have the tests in gerrit now | 20:25 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I could add the scores to that json file and then let them go under review | 20:25 |
| zehicle_at_dell | that's not a process, just the doc | 20:26 |
| ttx | I would do it if I weren't traveling all week | 20:26 |
| zehicle_at_dell | but it would let you address individual scores per test/capability | 20:26 |
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| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: let's try to make a proper TC resolution on that | 20:26 |
| mordred | ttx: I can do it | 20:27 |
| ttx | mordred: cool, thx | 20:27 |
| zehicle_at_dell | +1 | 20:27 |
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| ttx | #action mordred to draft binary proposal for the "TC direction" column scores | 20:27 |
| zehicle_at_dell | happy to have a smaller or 1x1 meeting about it. we spent some time in DefCore talking about exactly that | 20:28 |
| mordred | ttx: for completeness, I think it should be the whole column, yeah? | 20:28 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: then for the missing lines, if you don't get what you need frmo PTLs we can escalate to TC mid-June so that you're still on time for OSCON | 20:28 |
| ttx | mordred: indeed | 20:28 |
| zehicle_at_dell | thanks. yes | 20:28 |
| ttx | Anything more on that topic ? | 20:28 |
| dhellman_ | are we assuming that once they are defined in https://github.com/stackforge/refstack/blob/master/defcore/havana/capabilities.json a given capability's definition won't change? | 20:29 |
| zehicle_at_dell | mordred, yes. since any change to the row can impact the whole score. it's a single unit for review | 20:29 |
| zehicle_at_dell | dhellman_, release by release they will likely change | 20:29 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | small source of confusion > we're using capabilities as proxies for the tests right now. in next releases, we really should consider the tests | 20:29 |
| zehicle_at_dell | because a capability _may_ have some that are not required yet | 20:30 |
| zehicle_at_dell | it was just too much work to do it from the bottom up | 20:30 |
| zehicle_at_dell | so capabilities were a good compromise | 20:30 |
| dhellman_ | sure | 20:30 |
| dhellman_ | I'm just trying to reconcile the idea the the TC is going to vote on a definition of "compute-volume" and that definition will be changing later in a repo where we don't get a re-vote | 20:31 |
| sdague | zehicle_at_dell: so in an ideal world, is there a capability level grouping in tempest that we are missing? I sort of thought the capabilities here mapped to tempest directories, but now I'm not quite so sure | 20:31 |
| zehicle_at_dell | sdague, yes. Ideally, it would be managed there | 20:31 |
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| sdague | zehicle_at_dell: ok, so if there is feedback on restructures to make that clearer in the tempest, that would be appreciated. I think that team would be receptive to it. | 20:32 |
| zehicle_at_dell | mainly we did not expect DefCore to take long term ownership of that. it was needed to move forward this cycle | 20:32 |
| ttx | dhellman_: we get to revote at each release actually | 20:32 |
| sdague | zehicle_at_dell: yep, all good. Just want to use the feedback to make things better for everyone. | 20:32 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I think users would appreciate a consistent capabilities set even if we change some of the tests inside them | 20:32 |
| dhellman_ | ttx: ok | 20:33 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | +1000 | 20:33 |
| ttx | ok, I think we can move on | 20:33 |
| sdague | zehicle_at_dell: agreed. And I think it's a good way of "consuming" the information out of tempest, which has become pretty vast | 20:33 |
| zehicle_at_dell | +1 | 20:33 |
| zehicle_at_dell | sdague, I'm working on specs for refstack to help w/ visualization | 20:33 |
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| sdague | zehicle_at_dell: great | 20:34 |
| ttx | #topic K release naming | 20:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "K release naming (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:34 | |
| ttx | We need to come up with a short list of 3-5 names to submit to a public poll (after trademark checks) | 20:34 |
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| ttx | Last time we used a Condorcet TC members poll to select that short list out of a larger pool of candidates | 20:34 |
| ttx | The candidate names (following the naming rules) are up at: | 20:34 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNaming | 20:34 |
| ttx | Which ones from this list would you like to see on the Condorcet for the short list? | 20:34 |
| mikal | Can we have another mutiny over names? | 20:34 |
| anteaya | kepler | 20:34 |
| ttx | mikal: NO | 20:34 |
| sdague | so after talking with mikal, I'd like to apply for a grizzly class exception :) | 20:35 |
| mikal | I'd like to see Kilo / Kilogramme added to that list | 20:35 |
| markmcclain | why do I get the suspicion that kyoto will win? | 20:35 |
| ttx | Personally I'd pick Kepler, Kleber, Kossuth, Kourou, Kyoto | 20:35 |
| mikal | Its in Paris, and its a cool name | 20:35 |
| zaneb | mikal: ++ :) | 20:35 |
| dhellman_ | yeah, we should definitely not put names commonly associated with other places on the list | 20:35 |
| devananda | kerity, klang, or kepler -- if we stick to that list | 20:35 |
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| jeblair | devananda: the "havana" boat already sailed ;) | 20:35 |
| ttx | mikal: Kilo doesn't mean anything and Kilogramme is WAYY too long. Furthermore, we don't need an exception :) | 20:35 |
| mikal | But its out big chance to make fun of those non-metric people | 20:36 |
| ttx | And Kepler is an awesome dude, too | 20:36 |
| anteaya | ++ | 20:36 |
| jeblair | ++kepler | 20:36 |
| * dhellman_ will be voting for Klébér because he wants unicode characters in all the package names | 20:36 | |
| ttx | Furthermore the refeence kilogram is NOT EVEN in Paris | 20:36 |
| anteaya | kindwiller isn't bad | 20:37 |
| jeblair | ttx: !!? | 20:37 |
| ttx | It's in Sevres. Not Paris. Close. But not Paris. | 20:37 |
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| mordred | ++kepler | 20:38 |
| devananda | ttx: and Juno is not in Atlanta | 20:38 |
| anteaya | we need a few choices | 20:38 |
| mikal | The IPK and its six sister copies are stored at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures (known by its French-language initials BIPM) in an environmentally monitored safe in the lower vault located in the basement of the BIPM’s Pavillon de Breteuil in Sèvres on the outskirts of Paris. | 20:38 |
| mikal | Its in a vault in Paris | 20:38 |
| mikal | Whch is awesome | 20:38 |
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| ttx | key word is "outskirts" :) | 20:38 |
| mordred | rule is state - not city | 20:38 |
| mgagne | mordred: I'm sad, I can't find a place named Kraken in France | 20:38 |
| mikal | Sigh. Dude. | 20:38 |
| anteaya | keryado | 20:39 |
| mikal | None of us know the edge of Paris | 20:39 |
| mikal | Its just a big blob of Frenchyness to us | 20:39 |
| markmc | ttx is right, though - 'kilo' is not 'kilogram' | 20:39 |
| markmc | kepler it is | 20:39 |
| ttx | mikal: I object to that | 20:39 |
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| ttx | #info names to include i poll | 20:39 |
| ttx | #info Kepler, Kleber, Kossuth, Kourou, Kyoto | 20:39 |
| mikal | kepler is a good name though | 20:39 |
| ttx | #info kerity, klang | 20:39 |
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| anteaya | keryado? | 20:39 |
| markmc | keller ? | 20:40 |
| anteaya | I don't think that is hard to figure out how to pronounce | 20:40 |
| markmcclain | why not KILLEM? :) | 20:40 |
| ttx | killem is pretty neat | 20:40 |
| anteaya | no no no | 20:40 |
| mikal | Is it too late to argue to Koala? | 20:40 |
| * mikal is mostly trolling | 20:40 | |
| jeblair | i would like to see kilo on the list, though i would probably vote for kepler over it | 20:40 |
| ttx | mikal: stick to the rules! | 20:40 |
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| ttx | anteaya: is keryado a french city? | 20:41 |
| anteaya | it is on the list | 20:41 |
| ttx | #info keryado | 20:41 |
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| ttx | markmcclain: want killem on the short list condorcet poll ? | 20:41 |
| ttx | #info keller | 20:41 |
| markmc | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Keller | 20:42 |
| jaypipes | kepler ftw | 20:42 |
| zaneb | interesting that almost all the city names beginning with a K are German... | 20:42 |
| markmcclain | ttx: sure | 20:42 |
| wendar | that struck me as odd too, history of conquest, I suppose | 20:42 |
| ttx | zaneb: yes, Alsacian region | 20:42 |
| ttx | the other half are Brittany | 20:42 |
| ttx | Ker* stuff | 20:43 |
| ttx | Ker meaning village there | 20:43 |
| zaneb | ah, interesting | 20:43 |
| anteaya | if killem makes the list I want kindwiller | 20:43 |
| ttx | anyway, I'll set up the condorcet poll so that TC members can pick a short list of 5 | 20:43 |
| zaneb | I assume K is not a popular letter at the beginning of a word in French | 20:43 |
| ttx | #info kindwiller | 20:43 |
| ttx | you assume correctly | 20:44 |
| ttx | then we'll submit the list for cursory trademark checks | 20:44 |
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| ttx | and the resulting list of 3-4 will be pushed on a public poll | 20:44 |
| ttx | #action ttx to set up the condorcet poll for TC members to pick the short list | 20:45 |
| zaneb | I like the sound of Kirchberg. reminds me of Bavaria :) | 20:45 |
| ttx | #topic Requirements changes | 20:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Requirements changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:46 | |
| ttx | * Add Ceilometer requirements (https://review.openstack.org/85978) | 20:46 |
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| ttx | I'm tempted to abandon this one | 20:47 |
| ttx | this it doesn't get enough attention from proposer and clogs the meeting every week | 20:47 |
| sdague | on the ceilometer bit, I'd kind of like to pull out that + heat + horizon statements and do a more general "integrated projects should integrate with other projects" | 20:47 |
| sdague | in a more general way | 20:47 |
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| ttx | sdague: sounds like a good proposal that would make that one obsolete | 20:48 |
| sdague | which I'm happy to propose if there is some agreement on that direction | 20:48 |
| sdague | ok, will take as a todo | 20:48 |
| ttx | sdague: that said, I think that's where we started from | 20:48 |
| ttx | and then people got more specific | 20:48 |
| sdague | yeh, let me take a whack at language changes and see if people like it | 20:49 |
| devananda | i also remember there being concern at leaving it too generic | 20:49 |
| zaneb | sdague: +1 but example don't hurt either | 20:49 |
| dhellman_ | we did, because we wanted to list the expected ways that integration should happen, at a high level | 20:49 |
| ttx | right, so I remember correctly | 20:49 |
| sdague | I think general with examples works well. Before it was just general, with no examples | 20:49 |
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| devananda | give some direction so that future TCs don't miss necessary items in their pre-graduation gap analysis | 20:49 |
| sdague | that's how I was redoing the upgrade language | 20:49 |
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| dhellman_ | the problem with general is it doesn't provide a checklist for reviewing integration proposals; we need the checklist *somewhere* | 20:50 |
| markmcclain | +1 to checklist | 20:50 |
| devananda | dhellman_: ++ | 20:50 |
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| devananda | perhaps we should actually just checklist against /all/ projects | 20:50 |
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| sdague | dhellman_: honestly, checklists for graduation requirements are overrated I think | 20:50 |
| sdague | because there is *so* much context behind these | 20:50 |
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| sdague | and we've seen substantial confusion on the lists so far | 20:50 |
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| devananda | which is, itself, a general statement | 20:51 |
| ttx | #action ttx to talk to jd__ about his proposal and threaten to abandon it if it doesn't get more love | 20:51 |
| ttx | * add upgrade expectations (https://review.openstack.org/87234) | 20:51 |
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| annegentle | I'm all for talking to future TCs | 20:51 |
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| ttx | I think the latest version of that one should be good to go, just missing fresh votes | 20:52 |
| sdague | much appreciation to devananda and eglynn-afk for catching all my typos | 20:52 |
| dhellman_ | ttx, I'm rebasing it now | 20:52 |
| ttx | will approve when it gets 7 YES | 20:52 |
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| ttx | #topic Minor governance changes | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Minor governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:52 | |
| jeblair | sdague: er | 20:53 |
| dhellman_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85978/3 | 20:53 |
| ttx | * Add project mission statement for Ceilometer (https://review.openstack.org/87526) | 20:53 |
| jeblair | sdague: This requirement becomes relevant after the first stable release that199 a project ships in | 20:53 |
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| jeblair | sdague: so it's not really a graduation requirement, it's a post-graduation requirement? | 20:53 |
| sdague | jeblair: correct | 20:53 |
| ttx | One more approval and this one is good to go | 20:53 |
| sdague | jeblair: it's in the First Integrated Cycle Expections section | 20:53 |
| jeblair | sdague: is there any aspect of that we would want to consider before the graduation vote? | 20:54 |
| ttx | The other 3 are housecleaning, and will be approved unless someone screams really soon: | 20:54 |
| ttx | * removed openstack/database-api from programs (https://review.openstack.org/95416) | 20:54 |
| ttx | * Add infra-specs to infra program (https://review.openstack.org/94896) | 20:54 |
| ttx | * add oslo-specs to oslo program (https://review.openstack.org/95226) | 20:54 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:54 | |
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| sdague | jeblair: I'd love to nudge projects there, which is the reason for this language | 20:54 |
| sdague | "198 | 20:54 |
| sdague | This requirement becomes relevant after the first stable release that199 | 20:54 |
| sdague | a project ships in, however projects are encouraged to incorporate a200 | 20:54 |
| sdague | culture of upgradability early in their project lifecycle." | 20:54 |
| ttx | sdague: so maybe we can expand on that question of specific vs. general guidelines | 20:55 |
| jeblair | sdague: yeah, i think that's really clear. ++ | 20:55 |
| sdague | ttx: on open discussion, yay for designate incubation proposal! | 20:56 |
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| sdague | happy to be discussing that next week | 20:56 |
| jeblair | yaaaay! | 20:56 |
| markmcclain | finally glad it's back | 20:56 |
| ttx | sdague: are they up to snuff on the QA side ? Haven't looked at it yet | 20:56 |
| mikal | I have some concerns with designate, but I've mentioned them to the team | 20:56 |
| sdague | ttx: haven't yet, will do this week | 20:57 |
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| mikal | For example, they have an API rewrite planned | 20:57 |
| devananda | i continue to have some concerns about ceilometer's scope, but that seems to be overridden by the majority, and i think we've got good progress on the mission statement. | 20:58 |
| devananda | awaiting feedback from eglynn on my last suggestion | 20:58 |
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| eglynn | devananda: just looking at that, I'd be happy to resubmit with those suggested changes | 20:59 |
| * ttx looks up devananda's concerns | 20:59 | |
| jeblair | fwiw i also think the 'avoid examples in mission statement' is a good point | 20:59 |
| dhellman_ | eglynn: if you're going to make more changes, that "reliably" bit seems redundant (we want all of the openstack projects to be reliable, don't we?) | 21:00 |
| eglynn | dhellman_: reliably was inserted early in response to feedback | 21:00 |
| eglynn | (from jogo IIRC) | 21:00 |
| devananda | ttx: gathering billing data vs gathering performance data vs gathering performance data of the tenant's application (eg, for Heat scaling) | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok, time is up. Looks like that ceilo mission statement could use one more patchset | 21:00 |
| devananda | ttx: three separate things IMO | 21:00 |
| ttx | devananda: feel free to -1 it to block it :) | 21:01 |
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| dhellman_ | devananda: gathering similar data for multiple purposes | 21:01 |
| eglynn | ok, one more roundtrip to the well :) | 21:01 |
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| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 21:01:20 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-05-27-20.03.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-05-27-20.03.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-05-27-20.03.log.html | 21:01 |
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| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, eglynn, markwash, jgriffith, mikal, zaneb, david-lyle, kmestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: around ? | 21:01 |
| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
| zaneb | o/ | 21:01 |
| devananda | problem is the code already does the things I object to... so the mission statement is (converging on) an accurate statement of what the prjoect does | 21:01 |
| dhellman_ | o/ | 21:01 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:01 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:01 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:01 |
| markwash | o/ | 21:01 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:01 |
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| ttx | devananda: we can adjust the mission statement if the project gets "fixed" | 21:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 21:02:15 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:02 |
| ttx | Very short agenda today... | 21:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| ttx | #topic News from the 1:1 sync points | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "News from the 1:1 sync points (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
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| jeblair | and i'm totally not bringing anything up here today | 21:02 |
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| mestery | jeblair: :P | 21:03 |
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| ttx | Combined log of the 1:1s sync from today: | 21:03 |
| ttx | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2014/ptl_sync.2014-05-27-13.13.html | 21:03 |
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| ttx | Was a bit chaotic since I was traveling today | 21:03 |
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| ttx | #topic Other program news | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other program news (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| ttx | It was suggested that programs without an integrated project shall also have space to proclaim their news | 21:04 |
| notmyname | ttx: swift feature freeze during the storage policies merge will most likely start tomorrow | 21:04 |
| ttx | #info swift feature freeze during the storage policies merge will most likely start tomorrow | 21:04 |
| notmyname | thanks :-) | 21:04 |
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| ttx | Would a standing item at the beginning of this meeting work ? | 21:04 |
| ttx | jeblair: ^ | 21:04 |
| ttx | annegentle: ^ | 21:04 |
| ttx | mtreinish: ^ | 21:04 |
| mtreinish | ttx: yeah that's fine for me | 21:04 |
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| jgriffith | o/ | 21:04 |
| jeblair | ttx: that's fine, but i sort of figure we can add things to the agenda | 21:05 |
| ttx | jeblair: you should feel free to edit that wikipage | 21:06 |
| dolphm | ttx: could also be a special open-ish timeslot in #openstack-relmgr-office so it's archived as part of the other "news" | 21:06 |
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| ttx | dolphm: hmm, we could do that too | 21:06 |
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| ttx | if I find a time where they could all join if they want stuff included | 21:06 |
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| ttx | jeblair, mtreinish: would you prefer that ? | 21:06 |
| SlickNik | o/ | 21:07 |
| dolphm | how long before this meeting is the last 1:1? | 21:07 |
| SlickNik | sorry running a bit late on meetings. | 21:07 |
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| jeblair | ttx: that seems weird to me... | 21:07 |
| * SergeyLukjanov lurking | 21:07 | |
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| jeblair | ttx: i mean, the 1:1s are for you to coordinate with ptls on detailed deliverable times/progress/etc | 21:08 |
| mtreinish | ttx: I'll defer to you and jeblair I don't have an opinion on this :) | 21:08 |
| jeblair | i don't really have that need | 21:08 |
| ttx | jeblair: right | 21:08 |
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| ttx | I think hte idea is that you could get stuff in the ptl_sync summary | 21:08 |
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| ttx | but then probably better to #info your stuff during the meeting directly | 21:08 |
| ttx | ok, let's try a standing item at start of meeting | 21:09 |
| annegentle | sorry for the delay, yes, that's fine | 21:09 |
| ttx | and we'll revisit if tha tdoesn't work | 21:09 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:09 | |
| eglynn | quick question about juno-1 ... | 21:09 |
| ttx | That's actually all we had on the agenda | 21:09 |
| ttx | eglynn: shoot | 21:09 |
| eglynn | does the new fasttrack tag-driven milestone release process buy us an extra couple of days dev time? | 21:10 |
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| eglynn | i.e. instead of calling time for landing patches by EoD Monday | 21:10 |
| eglynn | ... that gets pushed out to say EoD Wednesday of the milestone week? | 21:10 |
| ttx | eglynn: the idea is that you can call the tag anytime between Tuesday and Thursday | 21:10 |
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| eglynn | ttx: cool | 21:10 |
| ttx | so yes, that can buy you a couple of days if needed | 21:10 |
| ttx | I epect that will mostly be useful for Feature Freeze | 21:11 |
| ttx | since j1 and j2 don't matter that much | 21:11 |
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| eglynn | yeah, for j-1 especially | 21:11 |
| eglynn | cool, got it | 21:11 |
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| dolphm | ttx: does it have to be the latest hash? | 21:11 |
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| dolphm | i guess it doesn't matter too much, nevermind! | 21:12 |
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| ttx | dolphm: not really | 21:12 |
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| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:13 |
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| ttx | well then | 21:14 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:14 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 21:14:55 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:14 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-05-27-21.02.html | 21:14 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-05-27-21.02.txt | 21:15 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-05-27-21.02.log.html | 21:15 |
| SlickNik | Thanks ttx! | 21:15 |
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| ttx | cheers! | 21:15 |
| mestery | thanks ttx! | 21:15 |
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| dolphm | good meeting :) | 21:17 |
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