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| Daisy | Who's around for I18n meeting? | 07:59 |
|---|---|---|
| ujuc | o/ | 07:59 |
| Fdot | Hello Daisy \o_ | 07:59 |
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| Daisy | Good morning, Fdot | 07:59 |
| Fdot | ygbo yt ? | 08:00 |
| Daisy | Let's start on time. | 08:00 |
| Daisy | #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting | 08:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 5 08:01:24 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 08:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting' | 08:01 |
| Daisy | Good morning/afternoon, everyone. | 08:01 |
| Daisy | It has been a long time since our last meeting. | 08:01 |
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| Fdot | Good morning/afternoon everyone | 08:02 |
| ygbo | Hi all | 08:02 |
| ujuc | Hi!!!! ;) | 08:02 |
| epico | hi | 08:02 |
| rajeshr | hi | 08:02 |
| Daisy | #topic #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting | 08:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "#startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 08:02 | |
| Daisy | Sorry wrong | 08:02 |
| Daisy | #topic Atlanta summit report from Daisy | 08:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Atlanta summit report from Daisy (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 08:03 | |
| ujuc | :) | 08:03 |
| Daisy | I was in the summit this time. And there were two sessions related with translation very much. | 08:03 |
| Daisy | Message I18n: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-cross-project-i18n | 08:03 |
| Daisy | Openstack developers were there and talked about messages I18n in this session. | 08:04 |
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| Daisy | Oslo team is working on a new oslo.i18n library, which is designed to be ready in the first milestone of Juno. | 08:04 |
| Daisy | After that, they would find projects to adopt the new lib. | 08:04 |
| Daisy | When all of these works ready, we will have separated messages, user facing error messages, API response messages, exception messages, and log messages. | 08:05 |
| Daisy | different messages in different pot files. | 08:05 |
| Daisy | Then we are able to translate the user facing messages if we want. | 08:05 |
| Daisy | Whether to translate messages, and what to translated could be the decision of a translation team. | 08:06 |
| Daisy | Different country might have different situation. | 08:06 |
| Daisy | I plan to have Chinese translations for API response messages and user facing messages. | 08:07 |
| Daisy | You could make the decision of your own. | 08:07 |
| Daisy | Any questions? | 08:07 |
| Fdot | not for me | 08:08 |
| ygbo | Just one thing about API error messages | 08:09 |
| Daisy | ok. Fdot, do you have needs to translate these messages ? | 08:09 |
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| Daisy | ygbo, please. | 08:09 |
| Fdot | we have to think about this | 08:09 |
| ygbo | The "one thing" is about bug/error messages | 08:09 |
| Fdot | but i don't think we are going to translate API messages in french | 08:10 |
| ygbo | If these messages are translated, the report is ot understandable if it does not have an error code (for the developper) | 08:10 |
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| Daisy | :) | 08:10 |
| Fdot | for someone using the api it is easier to find informations about an error code or message if it is in english | 08:10 |
| Daisy | Good question, ygbo. | 08:10 |
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| Fdot | he will find more informations and records on google ;) | 08:10 |
| Daisy | It's a common concern. We will have dev team to answer it. | 08:11 |
| ygbo | Fdot: maybe in French, but even us French will fix bugs reported maybe by an error message in Hindi | 08:11 |
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| Daisy | As to API response message, in Horizon, sometimes there would be error report when you do an action, like: Error: instance XXXX failed to be deleted. | 08:12 |
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| ygbo | I agree that a translated message is easier for the user, but for the one fixing the bug, if there is an error code he can link to the message without translation to fix the bug. | 08:12 |
| Daisy | "instance XXX failed to be deleted" is a API response message. | 08:12 |
| Fdot | ygbo: sometimes it is easier for investigating to have a comon error referencial into one language ;) | 08:12 |
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| Daisy | Now these kind of messages are not translated in Horizon. | 08:12 |
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| Fdot | but it is has to be translate into horizon | 08:13 |
| Daisy | Horizon displayed the back-end returned messages in their web UI. | 08:13 |
| Daisy | Simply display. | 08:14 |
| epico | ygbo, I just thinks a few error codes are more maintainable for developers... | 08:14 |
| epico | Daisy, how about to return English message and translate message both? | 08:14 |
| Daisy | epico: it could be a solution. | 08:14 |
| epico | maybe current oslo.i18n supports these both messages. | 08:15 |
| epico | as they can store both log messages. :) | 08:15 |
| Daisy | Now the solution is: Accepted Language in HTTP header is used to mark the required language for API response message. | 08:15 |
| epico | Daisy, yeah | 08:15 |
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| Daisy | I will pass our feedback to the dev team and see their response. | 08:16 |
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| epico | great! | 08:17 |
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| Daisy | Next session is "Translation tool discussion" https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/translation-platform-discussion | 08:17 |
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| ygbo | If an error says "Erreur 1234, ceci a échoué", even if you don't understand Frenchn the developper can grep for the rror 1234 easily :-) | 08:17 |
| epico | ygbo, I just hopes not too many error codes are defined... | 08:18 |
| Fdot | epico +1 | 08:18 |
| ygbo | epico: True :-) | 08:18 |
| ujuc | :) epico +1 | 08:18 |
| epico | :-) | 08:18 |
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| Daisy | Transifex is not keeping opening. We need to pay for the support from Transifex team if we want to get better support, or else, we only have to wait for a long time. | 08:19 |
| Daisy | So I was asked by the OpenStack Technical Lead team to evaluate several "open source" translation tools . | 08:20 |
| Daisy | I have contacted with Zanata and Pootle. Zanata dev team give great support to me. | 08:21 |
| Daisy | Zanata dev team gave a demo to us in April. | 08:21 |
| Daisy | They even went to Atlanta to attend this session discussion. | 08:21 |
| Daisy | So In the summit, we decided to set up a Zanata demo website. Infra team will work together with Zanata dev team to implement it. | 08:22 |
| Daisy | After the demo website is ready, we will try some small projects there. | 08:22 |
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| Daisy | Zanata dev team is open for OpenStack community's input, both in the contributors statistic feature and the UI improvements. | 08:22 |
| Daisy | A bug is used to track the contributor statistic feature: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1092193. | 08:24 |
| uvirtbot | Daisy: Error: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.redhat.com: HTTP Error 404: Not Found | 08:24 |
| Daisy | You could input ideas if you have interested. | 08:24 |
| Daisy | Any questions or comments? | 08:24 |
| ygbo | With Fdot we noticed something on Transifex: The Icehouse Translations are not on Juno branch... And translators would like to have what they already did. So were the translations merged only in the Icehouse branch and not in "master"? If so it would be good after a release to have them in the master branch too for the "continuation". This is more a translation workflow issue than Transifex itself :-) | 08:25 |
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| Daisy | In my mind, what we have translated should be in the master branch. | 08:26 |
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| Daisy | I don't know why you said they were not, ygbo. | 08:27 |
| Daisy | Which project? | 08:27 |
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| ygbo | Daisy: well Fdot can explain better, for my part, on Horizon in cloudwatt we stick to "master" and I have to take the pot files from Transifex-Icehouse (and add the missing which are master dependent), because "master" lacks a lot of translations. | 08:28 |
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| Daisy | I could check it offline with Horizon team. | 08:29 |
| Daisy | I don't think it should happen. | 08:29 |
| Daisy | #topic: Juno plans | 08:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": Juno plans (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 08:30 | |
| Fdot | Daisy if i make a diff | 08:30 |
| Fdot | between the po file from icehouse and the po file available for juno | 08:30 |
| Fdot | i don't find some translation we have made for icehous | 08:30 |
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| Fdot | icehouse | 08:31 |
| Daisy | So Fdot, some translations you made for icehouse are not in the master branch. Not all, right? | 08:31 |
| Fdot | yes | 08:31 |
| Daisy | Just some translations disappeared? | 08:31 |
| Fdot | some has disappeared and some are differents | 08:32 |
| Fdot | we have made corrections for typos | 08:32 |
| Daisy | OK. I could check it offline. If not all and only a few, that might be a manually error. | 08:32 |
| Fdot | and don't find the corrections into juno | 08:32 |
| Fdot | ok | 08:32 |
| Fdot | other point about this | 08:32 |
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| Daisy | Because while master branch switch to icehouse branch, amotoki do it manually. | 08:32 |
| Fdot | all revision work is lost between icehouse and juno which is sad :/ | 08:33 |
| Daisy | So there might be something wrong during this "switch" | 08:33 |
| Fdot | ok :) | 08:33 |
| Daisy | Yes, I agree. I will do a check. | 08:33 |
| Daisy | So come back to Juno plans. | 08:33 |
| Fdot | thanks a lot :) | 08:34 |
| Daisy | In Juno, before next summit in Pair, :), I hope to have as many as non-English website on-line. | 08:34 |
| Daisy | Especially French, Fdot. | 08:34 |
| Daisy | I know you have done a lot of translations. I know some of them are not in Transifex, right? | 08:35 |
| Daisy | Now we have French doc website and Spanish doc website. | 08:35 |
| Fdot | in french we have 2 subjects :) | 08:35 |
| Daisy | http://docs.openstack.org/fr/ | 08:36 |
| Daisy | Oh, not Spanish, but Japanese, French and German. | 08:36 |
| Fdot | 1 the translation we have made for havana just before the complete refactoring of the documentation I still don't find a solution for upstream it and since we have this work the documentation has changed a lot | 08:37 |
| Daisy | ujuc: let's try to have Korean document website on-line in Juno lifecycle. | 08:37 |
| Daisy | What's your subjects, Fdot? | 08:37 |
| Fdot | 2 - i am currently working working on translation of a lot of things about the APIs for Cloudwatt everything will be upstream | 08:37 |
| Daisy | Great ! | 08:37 |
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| Fdot | sorry not 2 subjects just 2 points :) | 08:38 |
| Daisy | Fdot, as to #1, I wonder if we could use PDF file or HTML file directly. | 08:38 |
| ujuc | hub | 08:38 |
| Daisy | I know it's hard to import to Transifex. We could use HTML directly. Just publish them to the website. | 08:38 |
| ujuc | :)) yap | 08:39 |
| Daisy | ujuc: when you have done any documents 100%, I will help you to have the Korean doc website. | 08:39 |
| Fdot | daisy the translation was made on the grizzly base. I am not sure it is very relevant | 08:39 |
| Daisy | OK. | 08:39 |
| Daisy | That's bad. | 08:39 |
| ujuc | Ok | 08:39 |
| Daisy | Any useful documents? Fdot? | 08:39 |
| Fdot | but i have to find a way to extract all the part which didn't move from grizzly | 08:40 |
| Fdot | the ideo should be to find a way to upstream the translation on the old grizzly po file | 08:40 |
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| Fdot | and them making a merge with the master file | 08:40 |
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| Fdot | we will lost some parts | 08:40 |
| Fdot | but win some others | 08:41 |
| Daisy | Not sure which tools could help, Fdot. | 08:41 |
| Fdot | daisy me too :( | 08:41 |
| Daisy | Let's start the discussion in the mailing list to see if we could get good suggestions. | 08:41 |
| Fdot | the amazon mechanic turk :D | 08:41 |
| Fdot | that's a goot idea i am going to prepare an email about this | 08:42 |
| Daisy | Next work I'm going to do is automation globalization test. | 08:42 |
| Daisy | I got strong requirements about globalization test during the summit. | 08:42 |
| Daisy | Globalization test will find bugs and errors occurring in Non-English environment. | 08:42 |
| Fdot | #action fdot is going to sen an e-mail to translation mailing list about his problem to upstream a french translation | 08:42 |
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| Daisy | These kind of errors and bugs won't occur in English env. | 08:43 |
| Daisy | The basic idea is to enhance Tempest test to feed pseudo translations. | 08:43 |
| amotoki | hi, what is the problem for icehouse translation above. my nams is referred above.. let me clarify after the current topic finishes. | 08:43 |
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| Daisy | amotoki, French team found some of their changes to Horizon translation in Icehouse doesn't appear in the current master branch. | 08:44 |
| Daisy | amotoki: I'm going to move to next topic. | 08:45 |
| Daisy | #topic: Horizon translatable strings rules | 08:46 |
| amotoki | Daisy: icehouse horizon translation is not synced with the master branch. that is the reason. | 08:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": Horizon translatable strings rules (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 08:46 | |
| Daisy | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/I18n/TranslatableStrings | 08:46 |
| Fdot | amotoki this is what we were thinking :) | 08:46 |
| Daisy | ygbo: are you there? | 08:46 |
| Fdot | thanks for the information | 08:46 |
| ygbo | Daisy: yep :-) | 08:46 |
| Daisy | ygbo: I have read the wiki page you write. | 08:46 |
| Daisy | It's a long page, including many information. And thank you very much for your effort. | 08:47 |
| Daisy | I have some thoughts. | 08:47 |
| ygbo | Sure, let me know :-) | 08:48 |
| Daisy | First of all, I think we could find a way to easy review and comment, other than wiki page. :) | 08:48 |
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| Daisy | Wiki page is hard to input comments. | 08:49 |
| tmazur | Hi all! I have some questions about the wiki page you are talking about. | 08:49 |
| Daisy | tmazur: please say. The author, ygbo, is there. | 08:50 |
| tmazur | It appears that we start using npgettext_lazy for some translations. | 08:50 |
| tmazur | I mean this patch set: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91338 | 08:50 |
| ygbo | tmazur: that's my patch indeed :-) | 08:51 |
| tmazur | However there is nothing about npgettext_lazy at wiki | 08:51 |
| tmazur | ygbo, sure :) I came here because you called me :) | 08:51 |
| Daisy | I wonder if npgettext_lazy is a customized function or not. | 08:51 |
| ygbo | tmazur: *pgettext* is about contextual markers and pluralization :-) | 08:51 |
| amotoki | re: npgettext_lazy it doesn't work with django older than 1.6. | 08:52 |
| ygbo | Daisy: npgettext_lazy is from django | 08:52 |
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| ygbo | ameade: it does work :-) | 08:52 |
| Daisy | ok. ygbo. | 08:52 |
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| amotoki | horizon team still supports django 1.4 and 1.5. This is the reason we don't use npgettext_lazy so far. | 08:52 |
| tmazur | ygbo, yes. My point is: if we are going to use npgettext_lazy, we should add a few lines to wiki page | 08:53 |
| ygbo | s/ameade/amatoki/ (sorry) | 08:53 |
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| ygbo | amotoki: it does work see my comment https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91338/12/tox.ini | 08:53 |
| amotoki | ygbo: does it work on djnago 1.5 too? when i tested a year ago, it doesn't work as expectedc. | 08:55 |
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| amotoki | *expected. | 08:55 |
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| amotoki | i know it works on django 1.6. | 08:55 |
| Daisy | ygbo: do you think if we should include apostrophe issue in this page? I know, apostrophe may cause unexpected errors in French. | 08:56 |
| ygbo | amotoki: waht does not work is https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.6/topics/i18n/translation/#lazy-translations-and-plural but this works https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.4/topics/i18n/translation/#working-with-lazy-translation-objects | 08:57 |
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| ygbo | amotoki: "passing a key name instead of an integer as the number argument" is what doesn't work in 1.4/1.5 | 08:57 |
| ygbo | but I didn't use this | 08:57 |
| ygbo | see my comment here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91338/11/horizon/tables/actions.py | 08:58 |
| ygbo | amotoki: so as long as we use npgettext_lazy as it is documented in Django 1.4 there is no issue | 08:58 |
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| amotoki | ygbo: i think npgettext() is documenetd in django 1.4 but npgettext_lazy() is new in django 1.6. am i missing something? | 08:59 |
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| ygbo | amotoki: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.4/topics/i18n/translation/#working-with-lazy-translation-objects | 09:00 |
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| ygbo | amotoki: the Jenkins would have failed during the django 1.4 tests | 09:01 |
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| amotoki | ygbo: doesn't the page describe only lazy translations. older django has definitions for all lazy variants of ugettext, but some of thme does not work actually. It only returns original strings. | 09:03 |
| amotoki | ygbo: anyway let me check later. | 09:04 |
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| Daisy | ygbo: We have overrun the meeting | 09:05 |
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| ygbo | Daisy: oops, indeed | 09:05 |
| Daisy | ygbo: how many people have give you feedbacks to the wiki page? | 09:06 |
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| Daisy | Did Horizon developers know about it? | 09:06 |
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| amotoki | i think only a few of horizon developers know the page. | 09:07 |
| ygbo | Daisy: for the moment... not many peaople | 09:07 |
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| amotoki | perhaps jpich, tmazur and i. | 09:07 |
| Daisy | I'm not the expert of Django | 09:07 |
| Daisy | So I might not help much. | 09:07 |
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| amotoki | apart from the detail, we need to clarify the basic policy first, then migrate to better one and apply it to the review policy. | 09:08 |
| ygbo | amotoki: https://github.com/django/django/blob/stable/1.4.x/django/utils/translation/__init__.py | 09:08 |
| tmazur | amotoki, agreed | 09:08 |
| ygbo | npgettext_lazy = lazy(npgettext, unicode) | 09:08 |
| Daisy | I suggest we use a more collaborative way to improve the wiki page, and let more people input their comments. | 09:08 |
| ygbo | line 102 | 09:09 |
| epico | amotoki, +1 | 09:09 |
| ygbo | Daisy: maybe an etherpad page? | 09:10 |
| Daisy | Good. | 09:10 |
| Daisy | Then I can easily input my questions there. | 09:10 |
| Daisy | I'm not the expert, so I have a lot of questions. :) | 09:10 |
| Daisy | #action ygbo move the wiki page to Etherpad | 09:11 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to pass the feedback about new oslo.I18n to Oslo dev team. | 09:12 |
| Daisy | I will close the meeting now. | 09:12 |
| Daisy | You could continue the discussion here. | 09:12 |
| Daisy | #endmeeting | 09:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:12 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 5 09:12:20 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:12 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-06-05-08.01.html | 09:12 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-06-05-08.01.txt | 09:12 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-06-05-08.01.log.html | 09:12 |
| Daisy | Thank you all for attending. | 09:12 |
| rajeshr | thanks all! | 09:13 |
| ujuc | :) | 09:13 |
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| Fdot | thanks all for the discussion :) | 09:13 |
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| epico | thanks all! | 09:14 |
| ygbo | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/i18n_translatable_strings (need to display it properly) | 09:14 |
| amotoki | for horizon icehouse transktaion, importing transltaion from transifix is done manually before each stable update. I totalluy forgot to announce it for icehouse stable update next week. I will iupdate translations for the next icehouse update 2014.1.2. | 09:14 |
| Fdot | have a good day/night ;) | 09:14 |
| ygbo | thankd alls | 09:14 |
| amotoki | thanks all. i will check the detail this weekend. | 09:14 |
| tmazur | thanks all! | 09:14 |
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| enikanorov_ | neutron lbaas meeting in 5 minutes | 13:56 |
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| mestery | enikanorov_: o/ | 13:58 |
| sballe | morning | 13:58 |
| enikanorov_ | hi everyone | 13:59 |
| sbalukoff | Morning! | 13:59 |
| JulianCash | Morning. I intended to email this earlier, but... https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/LBaaS_project_name_vote | 13:59 |
| JulianCash | Not something for us to vote on for this meeting | 13:59 |
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| JulianCash | But something that should be mentioned at this meeting if that's okay. | 14:00 |
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| enikanorov_ | wow, Julia, hi! | 14:00 |
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| enikanorov_ | JulianCash: enjoyed your book! | 14:00 |
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| enikanorov_ | *Julian | 14:00 |
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| rm_work | o/ | 14:01 |
| enikanorov_ | let's start the meeting | 14:01 |
| JulianCash | In other words, ideally we tack it onto the agenda as a "by the way, look at this & vote before XXX date. I'll add a date to it now. Again, this is about. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/LBaaS_project_name_vote | 14:01 |
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| s3wong | hello | 14:01 |
| enikanorov_ | #startmeeting neutronlbaas | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 5 14:01:28 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is enikanorov_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutronlbaas)" | 14:01 | |
| enikanorov_ | #endmeeting | 14:01 |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutronlbaas' | 14:01 |
| enikanorov_ | sorry | 14:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 5 14:01:33 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutronlbaas/2014/neutronlbaas.2014-06-05-14.01.html | 14:01 |
| enikanorov_ | #startmeeting neutron lbaas | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutronlbaas/2014/neutronlbaas.2014-06-05-14.01.txt | 14:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutronlbaas/2014/neutronlbaas.2014-06-05-14.01.log.html | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 5 14:01:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is enikanorov_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas' | 14:01 |
| aburaschi | hi o/ | 14:01 |
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| evgenyf | Hi | 14:01 |
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| hyakuhei | o/ <- Rob from HP / OSSG. | 14:02 |
| avishayb | hi | 14:02 |
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| blogan | hello | 14:02 |
| crc32 | hello | 14:02 |
| enikanorov_ | i'd like to cover few items today | 14:02 |
| german__ | hi | 14:02 |
| mestery | o/ | 14:02 |
| rm_work | o/ | 14:02 |
| JulianCash | hello | 14:02 |
| sballe | hi | 14:02 |
| enikanorov_ | i know there was some amount of discussions recently about various impl aspects | 14:02 |
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| enikanorov_ | so, I'd like to start with the item that I'd name "scope of the first patch" | 14:03 |
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| enikanorov_ | we have that API improvement blueprint | 14:03 |
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| enikanorov_ | which in fact is quite complex if we do everything that we have planned | 14:03 |
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| enikanorov_ | so I'd like to see that we limit the scope of each patch we produce under that blueprint | 14:03 |
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| enikanorov_ | the goal for each patch is that it should be consistent and it should move us forward | 14:04 |
| dougwig | morning | 14:04 |
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| blogan | so it still needs to be decided whether a new extension and plugin is created or the same one is kept and the old api is just translated to the new object model | 14:04 |
| enikanorov_ | by 'move us forward' i mean that it should introduce some thing valueble in the general direction that we have taken | 14:04 |
| mestery | Also, each patch should be self-contained, and we need the reference driver to implement the new API as well. | 14:04 |
| blogan | i believe kyle is going to bring that up on monday | 14:04 |
| enikanorov_ | ok | 14:05 |
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| mestery | blogan: Correct, at the team meeting. | 14:05 |
| mestery | *neutron team meeting | 14:05 |
| enikanorov_ | so my personal opinion (you may refer to it then, if you want) is that we need to make a transition on existing extension | 14:05 |
| sballe | blogan: I like the new extension and plug-in | 14:05 |
| enikanorov_ | it may lead to more bloated code, but it will be cleaned up eventually | 14:05 |
| sbalukoff | I am also all for the new extension and plug-in. | 14:06 |
| blogan | i think the separate extension and plugin is cleaner and allows for the clean up to be much easier later, however, i'm okay with whichever | 14:06 |
| enikanorov_ | i'm also fine with that, if rest of the core team finds in fine :) | 14:06 |
| mestery | My personal opinion is I like the new extension and plugin model as well. :) | 14:07 |
| enikanorov_ | i mean, i would prefer progress rather than too long discussions | 14:07 |
| rm_work | hmm, i didn't realize that was an option, but that sounds cleanest | 14:07 |
| mestery | We should get consensus next Monday on this with the rest of the core team and then we can move forward. | 14:07 |
| rm_work | neutron-lbaas2? >_> | 14:07 |
| rm_work | that's one way to do versioning, I guess :) | 14:07 |
| aburaschi | I agree on new extension is cleaner. I must ask about timings, however... | 14:07 |
| sballe | This approach will alllow us to have both APIs available for some time | 14:08 |
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| mestery | sballe: +1 | 14:08 |
| rm_work | yeah, would that be significantly more work? or would it actually be easier since no translation would be needed | 14:08 |
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| enikanorov_ | the problem with this approach is that we have to write tons of code to get to working state | 14:08 |
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| mestery | enikanorov_: Yes, that's the downside, and it's a large one for sure. | 14:08 |
| german__ | we still will transalate at the object level... | 14:08 |
| blogan | rm_work: i think it would be easier, but I'm also wondering if another version of the agent needs to be created as well, I'll defer to Eugene for that | 14:08 |
| sbalukoff | Or... copy-paste a bunch of code to get to a working state. | 14:08 |
| sballe | rm_work, It allows us to make sure we do the rigth thing and at the same time leave the old API/Model alone | 14:08 |
| sballe | until we can transition | 14:09 |
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| german__ | sbalukoff *shudder* | 14:09 |
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| dougwig | i'm pretty neutral on this, but both apis would work in both scenarios, and i'm not sure i see the "cleaner". gnerally you fork when you need to operate on a different schedule, or because of an incompatible model. neither is true here. plus, what happens with drivers? are we dup'ing them? or will they know both models? can vendors submit new drivers | 14:09 |
| dougwig | against both models? | 14:09 |
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| rm_work | german__: I agree that's …. ick? but… if we literally just clone the old neutron-lbaas, rename it, and then go from there, it's pretty easy i guess | 14:09 |
| enikanorov_ | rm_work: i'd be concerned about mergeability of such code | 14:10 |
| enikanorov_ | and that's the biggest one | 14:10 |
| german__ | I just don't like copy*paste since I then need to do bug fixes two places (with the risk forgettingn one) | 14:10 |
| blogan | and thats why I was hoping to get a quick consensus by the core reviewers | 14:10 |
| sballe | enikanorov, that's what the other teams have done so there is a precedence | 14:10 |
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| sbalukoff | blogan: +1 | 14:10 |
| german__ | blogan +1 | 14:11 |
| rm_work | german__: agreed, but ideally we'd be deprecating the original extension | 14:11 |
| crc32 | BLowGin: +1 | 14:11 |
| sballe | enikanorov, I agree since our plan is to bring the new code into Neutron | 14:11 |
| blogan | i'd rather know up front whether that strategy will fail or be accepted before a lot of work is put into it | 14:11 |
| rm_work | alright, so we're going to leave this one to monday? | 14:11 |
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| german__ | yep | 14:11 |
| rm_work | blogan: +1 then | 14:11 |
| sballe | blogan, +1 | 14:11 |
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| aburaschi | blogan +1 | 14:11 |
| german__ | blogan +1 | 14:11 |
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| mestery | blogan: +1 | 14:11 |
| enikanorov_ | imo, (not trying to say on behalf of core reviewers, but...) if you make brogress and you're backward compatible - that should work for all of us | 14:11 |
| enikanorov_ | including core team | 14:11 |
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| mestery | enikanorov_: +1, progress and compatibility are a win-win | 14:12 |
| sballe | enikanorov, agreed | 14:12 |
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| enikanorov_ | i'm not sure about 100% bw compatibility but i think basic scenarios can work with new api+translation | 14:12 |
| blogan | yeah I feel the same way too | 14:13 |
| aburaschi | quick question: achieving same level of functionality as we have now, but with the new API, by Juno, is the final goal? | 14:13 |
| german__ | that's what tests are for | 14:13 |
| jorgem | Okay since we are moving on, can we talk about hackathon? | 14:13 |
| enikanorov_ | aburaschi: with translation - it could be even better | 14:13 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: yep, that's another item | 14:13 |
| crc32 | +1 jorgem | 14:13 |
| mestery | jorgem: Yes, we need to nail down logistics there. | 14:13 |
| sballe | I create the following agenda page: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/1gsTm4GBdu | 14:14 |
| sballe | I have added some items I feel we need to discuss and feel to add more | 14:14 |
| jorgem | sballe: Very nice thank you | 14:14 |
| enikanorov_ | mestery: that's what i was going to talk about | 14:14 |
| mestery | enikanorov_: Perfect! | 14:14 |
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| sballe | it also has some prep I feel we need to do before we meet | 14:14 |
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| enikanorov_ | so recently we have discussed the possible implementation approach with blogan | 14:14 |
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| enikanorov_ | it seems that the following plan may make sense | 14:15 |
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| jorgem | So I have a question about the API model refactor. What functionality do we want to have exposed by the time the code freeze comes? | 14:15 |
| enikanorov_ | 1) introduce new object model underneath existing API - that makes sure existing scenarios work, new scenarios are limited to existing features level | 14:15 |
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| enikanorov_ | by new object model i mean: loadbalancer and listeners | 14:16 |
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| enikanorov_ | no major attribute changes yet | 14:16 |
| enikanorov_ | just to limit the scope of the change | 14:16 |
| enikanorov_ | so we need to do proper relationships at object model level, everything, and get it exposed via existing API | 14:16 |
| enikanorov_ | so, say, VIP will map to loadbalancer+its first listener | 14:17 |
| blogan | yeah and thats what I have been doing | 14:17 |
| blogan | even if we pivot to option #2 I know the code so much better now | 14:17 |
| enikanorov_ | the second patch is then introduces actual new objects in rest api layer | 14:17 |
| sbalukoff | Isn't all of that affected by what we just talked about? | 14:17 |
| enikanorov_ | which should not be a big deal | 14:17 |
| blogan | yes it is | 14:18 |
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| enikanorov_ | so it was item #2 for the code sprint IMO | 14:18 |
| sbalukoff | enikanorov_: So we can't make assumptions about the scope of that first patch until we know whether option #2 as described by blogan in the e-mail he sent out earlier this week is a viable path for us to take, according to neutron core devs' opinion. | 14:18 |
| blogan | enikanorov_: I think everyone agrees with the strategy for how to implement option #1, and if we have to move option #2 a new strategy will have to be made | 14:18 |
| enikanorov_ | blogan: yep | 14:19 |
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| enikanorov_ | sbalukoff: still... i'm describing the way we can leverage existing code | 14:19 |
| blogan | enikanorov: i just dont want to spend too much time on this if there is consensus on what should be done and there's is a bit of uncertainty based on anotehr meeting on monday | 14:19 |
| enikanorov_ | that's for sure | 14:19 |
| jorgem | blogan: +1, hackathon items need to be addressed since we have little time | 14:20 |
| enikanorov_ | but still i'd like to present my vision of how it should be delivered | 14:20 |
| sbalukoff | Personally, I would like to see us concentrate on those "problem integration areas" for Neutron which cause LBaaS and other advanced services to be so tightly integrated with NEutron. | 14:20 |
| crc32 | +1 for hachathon and barbican discussion | 14:20 |
| jorgem | I want to make sure we get to them before the meeting ends | 14:20 |
| sballe | blogan, Could we discuss his on the IRC neutron-lbaas on Monday after the neutron meeting? | 14:20 |
| enikanorov_ | if we end with brand new extension and plugin - fine! | 14:20 |
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| blogan | sballe: yes that would be a good time, though that will be at 5pm cst on monday. I'll send an email out | 14:21 |
| sballe | ok | 14:21 |
| mestery | blogan sballe: May make sense Tuesday morning? | 14:21 |
| german__ | +1 | 14:21 |
| rm_work | is that *late* or *early* for enikanorov_ ? >_> | 14:21 |
| enikanorov_ | neutron meeting ends 2am for me | 14:21 |
| mestery | Tuesday morning EDT will work better for enikanorov_ as well. | 14:21 |
| enikanorov_ | so it's a bit... | 14:21 |
| rm_work | T_T | 14:21 |
| enikanorov_ | -_- | 14:21 |
| blogan | okay, I'll still send an email out and then we can discuss tuesday morning | 14:22 |
| sballe | blogan, +1 | 14:22 |
| blogan | so hackathon now? | 14:22 |
| enikanorov_ | yes | 14:22 |
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| blogan | great | 14:22 |
| sballe | I am really worried that we start implementation before we have an agreement on the architecture so if we can outline tasks than can be done first such as interface clean-up, etc. then we can work on these until we have agreement on the arch. I agree that API/model cn be done first. | 14:22 |
| mestery | jorgem: Are you guys all set to host all of us at RAX now? | 14:22 |
| mestery | jorgem: As long as we haev a room and wifi we're good I think :) | 14:23 |
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| jorgem | we need to finalize the number of people that are coming | 14:23 |
| sbalukoff | sballe: +1 | 14:23 |
| crc32 | I''m attending. | 14:23 |
| german__ | yeah, big room = better | 14:23 |
| jorgem | but no worries on getting a room | 14:23 |
| jorgem | :) | 14:23 |
| mestery | jorgem: perfect! | 14:23 |
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| jorgem | so... | 14:24 |
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| jorgem | I'd like to briefly touch on scope | 14:24 |
| tmc3inphilly | can't wait to get my hack on | 14:24 |
| sballe | I see a lot of folks are looking at: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/1gsTm4GBdu | 14:24 |
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| sballe | feel free to add items that you feel are important | 14:24 |
| jorgem | What functionality are we going to expose via the API by the time the freeze comes along? and... | 14:24 |
| JulianCash | And https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-juno-lbaas-mid-cycle | 14:25 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: I'd suggest to set realistic goals | 14:25 |
| jorgem | Does the reference implementation need to be in sync with that? | 14:25 |
| mestery | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/1gsTm4GBdu | 14:25 |
| mestery | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-juno-lbaas-mid-cycle | 14:25 |
| sballe | I thougth we had agree on HA | 14:25 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: Correct I'd like to try and define them now | 14:25 |
| enikanorov_ | realistic in my opinion is to expose new resources of the new API | 14:25 |
| rm_work | sballe: isn't HA more of a backend issue? I thought that's what we decided | 14:26 |
| jorgem | I have HA. I don't think SSL will happen on the backend but should it be exposed on the front end? | 14:26 |
| enikanorov_ | and to have meaningful logic around that | 14:26 |
| vivek-ebay | As I understand, we have following main LBaaS deliverables for Juno release: | 14:26 |
| vivek-ebay | 1) New Rest API and object model | 14:26 |
| vivek-ebay | 2) SSL APIs and integration with Barbican | 14:26 |
| vivek-ebay | 3) HA Proxy scalable reference implementation (Octavia) | 14:26 |
| blogan | if the custom backend does not support a feature that the API exposes should that still go in? | 14:26 |
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| jorgem | + blogan Thats what I'm getting at | 14:27 |
| enikanorov_ | having fully implemented (1) seems a success for me | 14:27 |
| rm_work | vivek-ebay: +1 | 14:27 |
| crc32 | I'm interested in topic 2. | 14:27 |
| rm_work | that is what I recall as well | 14:27 |
| vivek-ebay | what is the scope for hackathon at RAX? #3 ? | 14:27 |
| sballe | I like the Juno feature list but think it is ambitous | 14:27 |
| rm_work | I think #1 and MAYBE #2, honestly | 14:27 |
| rm_work | (should be top priorities) | 14:28 |
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| hyakuhei | crc32: I'm interested in #2 also | 14:28 |
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| vivek-ebay | We are also interested in #1 and #2 | 14:28 |
| blogan | #3 will not be limited by a code freeze | 14:28 |
| rm_work | we can work on #3 but on the side | 14:28 |
| sballe | vivek-ebay, now we are back to my worry. We haven't agreed on an arch and on how to clean-up the interfaces and we start talking about implrmenting new features | 14:28 |
| rm_work | yeah | 14:28 |
| mestery | blogan: Correct! | 14:28 |
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| blogan | another top priority will be cleaning up the integration points | 14:28 |
| vivek-ebay | sballe +1 | 14:28 |
| sbalukoff | #3 will be limited if we don't have clean interfaces to Neutron. | 14:28 |
| mestery | sballe: The integration point cleanup is something we will discuss on day-1 at the Hackathon. | 14:28 |
| evgenyf | crc32: topic 2) there is updated WIKI iwth all latest changes , please review it https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/LBaaS/SSL | 14:29 |
| sballe | realistically I see 1/ Clean-up interface 2/ model and APIs and maybe 3/Barbican integration | 14:29 |
| VijayB_ | I don't see why we should postpone 2) Is the reason that haproxy is still beta on ssl termination support? | 14:29 |
| sbalukoff | mestery: It would be great to have an idea where those areas are *before* the hackathon so maybe we can spend some time at the hackaton working on them. | 14:29 |
| rm_work | sballe: +1 | 14:29 |
| german__ | +1 sbalukoff | 14:29 |
| blogan | VijayB: I think it is because it needs to be implemented in the reference implemenation as well as the API | 14:30 |
| JulianCash | +1 | 14:30 |
| german__ | also we will be lost of people so we might split in teams tackling different things | 14:30 |
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| mestery | sbalukoff: +1, now that markmcclain is done traveling, I plan to work with him later this week to get a list of that down. | 14:30 |
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| mestery | german__: +1 | 14:30 |
| sballe | german__, +1 | 14:30 |
| rm_work | german__: +1 | 14:30 |
| blogan | can we all agree that cleaning up those interfaces is a top priority? | 14:30 |
| sbalukoff | mestery: Thanks! | 14:30 |
| jorgem | So #3 doesn't seem like a priority for hackathon since it isn't affected by the freeze | 14:30 |
| crc32 | evgenyf: Yes but our discussions with the barbican team has some implications on the behavior we are expecting. For 1 their is no schema for a cert and key just a generica container thats immutable. | 14:30 |
| vivek-ebay | how about we host separate hackathon for #1 and #2 in parallel to RAX hosting for #3 ? | 14:30 |
| jorgem | blogan: +1 is a big one | 14:31 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: +1 | 14:31 |
| JulianCash | german__ +1 | 14:31 |
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| enikanorov_ | honestly folks i think that you need to find out those "integration points" | 14:31 |
| jorgem | I'm trying to focus on freeze related items | 14:31 |
| sballe | blogan, 100% agree that cleaning up interface is top priority | 14:31 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: Also, #3 is the most nebulous task, which tells me we aren't yet in enough agreement there to make a lot of forward progress. | 14:31 |
| enikanorov_ | or otherwise how are you going to write code for neutron? | 14:31 |
| sballe | enikanorov, +100 | 14:31 |
| tmc3inphilly | wouldn't barbican integration take place in the driver? or is there a desire to have it in LBaaS? | 14:32 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: Also, agreed, let's get the things done first that will be affected most by the code freeze. | 14:32 |
| rm_work | tmc3inphilly: it's an API-level thing | 14:32 |
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| rm_work | needs to be exposed at the API so the user can provide barbican container IDs | 14:32 |
| jorgem | 1) New Rest API and object model - My fear with this one is that certain items don't make it in and we have to wait several more cycles to expose functionality. It's easy to expose stuff via the API but it won't get accepted unless there is at least one working implementation of it right? | 14:32 |
| german__ | +1 em_work | 14:32 |
| blogan | we have two separate conversations going on here, can we focus on one? | 14:32 |
| german__ | rm_work | 14:32 |
| german__ | blogan +1 | 14:32 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: right | 14:33 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: but basic functionality is supported by haproxy | 14:33 |
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| rm_work | so, we'll still be updating the haproxy namespace driver during this | 14:33 |
| enikanorov_ | and it won't be too difficult to imlement it | 14:33 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: So what are we agreeing on to expose? Plus this means coding in the current reference implementation | 14:33 |
| enikanorov_ | rm_work: correct, we have to | 14:33 |
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| enikanorov_ | jorgem: loadbalancer and listeners | 14:33 |
| rm_work | enikanorov_: yeah, sorry, i meant that rhetorically, i have no problem there :P | 14:34 |
| enikanorov_ | and limiting attribute change as possible | 14:34 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: What about things such as SSL, L7, SNI, etc.? | 14:34 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: L7 is fine to work on once we have basic api/obj model in the master | 14:34 |
| crc32 | evgenyf: Also we need to discuss the exected behavior for when users update their keys in barbican should barbican use an event system to alert the Lbaas service a key or cert has changed or leave it to the user. | 14:34 |
| enikanorov_ | ssl - probably too, but without eact merging expectations | 14:35 |
| crc32 | jorgem: SNI is out of scope for Juno I believe as well as rencryption. | 14:35 |
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| enikanorov_ | eact=exact | 14:35 |
| rm_work | crc32: +1 | 14:35 |
| jorgem | All of us said velocity was a key thing but if features are exposed via the API then that kind of defeats the purpose somewhat | 14:35 |
| crc32 | Jorgem: But ssl termination or offloading is still on for juno. | 14:35 |
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| enikanorov_ | jorgem: and features are not until they're implemented on the backend | 14:35 |
| german__ | let's have "stretch" goals and use the hackathon to hammer them out? | 14:36 |
| evgenyf | crc32: I will add this point to the doc. | 14:36 |
| enikanorov_ | exposing loadbalancer and listeners is simple thing which doesn't require much work on driver side | 14:36 |
| jorgem | I just see a disconnect from the work octavia will be able to accomplish if it is limited by API functionality not being exposed | 14:36 |
| jorgem | Does everyone see my concern? | 14:36 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: that's why i've suggested to set realistic goals | 14:36 |
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| enikanorov_ | we may be able to produce large amounts of working code | 14:37 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: When you say "limited by API finctionality not being exposed' are you talking about Neutron API? | 14:37 |
| enikanorov_ | but realistically, having basic model in Juno working - that will be a good deal | 14:37 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: Yes, Neutron LBaaS API | 14:37 |
| german__ | we still can have an Octavia API? | 14:37 |
| jorgem | I understand scope needs to be limited, at least for the backend | 14:37 |
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| enikanorov_ | may i raise reservation against Octavia name? | 14:38 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: Yes, I agree. But I would say that not having a clean interface to work with in Neutron would limit Octavia even more than that. | 14:38 |
| JulianCash | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/LBaaS_project_name_vote | 14:38 |
| enikanorov_ | (sorry) | 14:38 |
| crc32 | evengenyf: I wanted to sync up with you rm_you and sballe after this meeeting about the barbican schema we intend to use for Certs as well as if we intend to use the event engine to communicate changes back to the lbaas servicve. | 14:38 |
| enikanorov_ | that's my car model name... | 14:38 |
| crc32 | rm_work I mean sorry. | 14:38 |
| jorgem | I want to focus on getting as much functionality exposed (while cleaning up interfaces) so that Octavia can move at the speed it needs to. | 14:38 |
| enikanorov_ | ii want it to be a car :_ | 14:38 |
| JulianCash | Suggesting we pick a name via: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/LBaaS_project_name_vote | 14:38 |
| enikanorov_ | :) | 14:38 |
| JulianCash | Feel free to add names that you think of! Add names BEFORE 6/8/2014 7:00am utc (midnight pst). Then people can put their name next to project names they like (to vote). Vote BEFORE 6/12/2014 7:00am utc The PTL/TC/Core folks will likely do the final picking and vote tallying. | 14:39 |
| vjay2 | Hi Everyone, Was on vacation and just joined the meeting. Still catching up on stuff. | 14:39 |
| sballe | crc32, please include hyakuhei | 14:39 |
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| mestery | jorgem: +1 to that | 14:39 |
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| vjay2 | Will someone kind enough to clarify? Is this cleaning of (neutron) interface meant to make LBaaS service independent? Meaning, whatever LBaaS requires of Neutron will be exposted as an API by Neutron? | 14:39 |
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| sballe | jorgem, +1 | 14:39 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: how can we expose API without implementation? | 14:39 |
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| jorgem | sbalukoff: Thus I feel like we should put more focus on Neutron LBaaS before getting knee deep into octavia because of the time sensitivity. | 14:39 |
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| enikanorov_ | i think the perception of core team is opposite | 14:40 |
| rm_work | there's TWO names here -- Octavia was for the backend impl thing we were discussing, not for the new LBaaS API Project in Openstack | 14:40 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: Agreed. | 14:40 |
| enikanorov_ | as they tend to move from 'experimental status' | 14:40 |
| blogan | vjay2: it is meant to allow lbaas to be independent yes, that independence will not happen right away | 14:40 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: It doesn't seem like the community want to. On way is method not implemented but I don't think the community likes that | 14:40 |
| enikanorov_ | if you have an API that is not actually working - that's just not good | 14:40 |
| sballe | jorgem, 100% agree. If we get the claeen-up done we can parallellise the effort around the features inOctavia | 14:40 |
| JulianCash | Before we change off of name topic, are folks okay with picking the name via a vote process, as specified here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/LBaaS_project_name_vote | 14:40 |
| vivek-ebay | rm_work: +1, its very confusing folks using it interchangably | 14:40 |
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| rm_work | vivek-ebay: yes T_T | 14:40 |
| crc32 | sballe: Are you not going to be apart of this discussion? | 14:41 |
| enikanorov_ | jorgem: are you going to participate monday neutron meeting? | 14:41 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: yes | 14:41 |
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| evgenyf | crc32: I'm available after this meeting | 14:41 |
| sballe | I can't have some otehr meetings. please invite german__ and hyakuhei (he is our security expert and work on barbican as well) | 14:41 |
| vjay2 | blogan: thanks for the reply. Yes I understand. we are doing the ground work now. | 14:41 |
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| enikanorov_ | then please raise this again. Because what I just said is not my fantasy, you know :) | 14:41 |
| jorgem | another important item related to freeze... | 14:42 |
| blogan | I think implementing the features in the namespace driver will not be so hard | 14:42 |
| jorgem | Is barbican affected by the freeze? | 14:42 |
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| crc32 | hyakuhei and german_ rm_work and evengyf can you meet up in neutron-lbaas after this meeting? | 14:42 |
| jorgem | Since it is in incubation? | 14:42 |
| rm_work | crc32: yes | 14:42 |
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| jorgem | because if it is then we also need to focus on integrating with it too | 14:43 |
| evgenyf | crc32: yes | 14:43 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: +1 | 14:43 |
| jorgem | to setup the foundation for SSL | 14:43 |
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| german__ | crc32 irc? | 14:43 |
| jorgem | mestery: Do you know if the freeze affects incubated projects? | 14:43 |
| mestery | jorgem: For incubated projects, it's up to their discretion if they follow it or not. | 14:43 |
| hyakuhei | crc32: I can for maybe 20 minutes or so yes | 14:43 |
| rm_work | german__: yeah, just over in #neutron-lbaas | 14:43 |
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| sballe | jorgem, Are you talking abotu code freeze? | 14:44 |
| german__ | ok, will bethere | 14:44 |
| jorgem | sballe: yes | 14:44 |
| crc32 | german__: yes freenode #neutron-lbaas or if you have a better place we can meet there. | 14:44 |
| jorgem | mestery: Okay good but I'm going to error on the side that they will freeze | 14:44 |
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| crc32 | brb | 14:44 |
| sballe | jorgem, I think we sj=hould follow the openstack releases and freeze. | 14:44 |
| jorgem | mestery: At least initially, which means effort needs to be put into integrating with Barbican | 14:45 |
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| rm_work | minimum necessary changes in Barbican should hopefully be small, so should not be a big deal anyway | 14:45 |
| mestery | jorgem: Agreed 100% | 14:45 |
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| rm_work | but we will discuss | 14:45 |
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| s3wong | so we still haven't gotten to talking about the hackathon? | 14:45 |
| rm_work | s3wong: i think we just finished outlining priorities for it? | 14:45 |
| german__ | we have an etherpad | 14:45 |
| jorgem | s3wong: I'm trying to define scope of it | 14:45 |
| sballe | s3wong, do you agree with waht's is inthe tehrpad? | 14:46 |
| jorgem | s3wong: So that we have a goal | 14:46 |
| blogan | ok so do we have a priority list for the hackathon: 1) clean integration points 2) api object model refactor 3) L7 and SSL features in API and namepsace driver | 14:46 |
| mestery | blogan: We should put that on sballe's etherpad. | 14:46 |
| sballe | blogan, L7 is now in there. | 14:46 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: I like that list. Also, we can potentially work on those three things in parallel | 14:46 |
| jorgem | blogan: Goal should also be to expose as much functionality as possible. | 14:46 |
| sballe | I just put it in but wthout the L7 | 14:46 |
| german__ | also we can work in parallel/multiple teams... | 14:46 |
| jorgem | blogan: which means reference impl work | 14:47 |
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| s3wong | sballe: I am looking at your etherpad. So I am from the serviceVM and adv-service service insertion subteams, and would be here to help if the LBaaS subteam has further requirements on integration points | 14:47 |
| mestery | sbalukoff: +1 | 14:47 |
| sballe | s3wong, Perfect | 14:47 |
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| mestery | s3wong: Are you coming to SAT in 2 weeks? :) | 14:47 |
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| s3wong | mestery: if needed, I will. I got mgmt approval on travel budget already | 14:48 |
| sbalukoff | s3wong: Ooh! Yes, I'd like to hear what your main concerns are for integrations points (but that can happen offline, after this meeting.) | 14:48 |
| mestery | s3wong: sweet! | 14:48 |
| sballe | s3wong, it would be great if you can come | 14:48 |
| s3wong | mestery: so I guess I will then :-) | 14:48 |
| mestery | s3wong: nice and thanks! | 14:48 |
| german__ | neat | 14:48 |
| sballe | s3wong, +1 | 14:48 |
| blogan | s3wong: awesome, we could use your knowledge and expertise | 14:49 |
| vivek-ebay | If there are more folks in bay area interested , we can host hackathon at ebay campus too for subteams to work in parallel on other items. | 14:49 |
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| sballe | sballe, and HP is happy to host the enxt one in Seattle | 14:49 |
| sbalukoff | vivek-ebay: That would be really cool if y'all do that. | 14:49 |
| blogan | vivek-ebay: i think this is the only date in Juno that works for mestery and markmcclain | 14:49 |
| mestery | blogan vivek-ebay: Maybe a parallel hackathon at ebay during the same time? | 14:49 |
| mestery | vivek-ebay: that woudl let s3wong avoid travel. | 14:49 |
| mestery | vivek-ebay: I like that idea! | 14:50 |
| vivek-ebay | yes, same time | 14:50 |
| JulianCash | FYI, timecheck. 10 minutes left in this meeting. | 14:50 |
| mestery | vivek-ebay: +1 to that idea! | 14:50 |
| sbalukoff | Seattle also works well for Blue Box, since we're based there, too. | 14:50 |
| blogan | ah same time | 14:50 |
| mestery | s3wong: would that work for you? | 14:50 |
| mestery | I'd like to keep the core folks at SAT though if possible | 14:50 |
| sballe | ok I am worried now. About "same time" | 14:50 |
| mestery | F2F is important for this initla one :) | 14:50 |
| s3wong | mestery: yes, that would also be good | 14:50 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: Seattle works for me too since I like traveling there :) | 14:50 |
| vivek-ebay | I will work on getting logistics. Should not be a problem. | 14:50 |
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| JulianCash | <B Seattle | 14:50 |
| sballe | I really think taht we need to be inthe same room for this first one | 14:50 |
| s3wong | vivek-ebay: let us know (from ML) when and where the meeting is | 14:50 |
| mestery | sballe: +1, at least for most folks | 14:51 |
| vivek-ebay | Address would be: 2211 N First St, San Jose, CA 95131 | 14:51 |
| sballe | mestery, +1 We will set the direction and do all the "serial" work at this meeting. | 14:51 |
| mestery | Time check: 9 minutes left. | 14:51 |
| rm_work | so, next hackathon -- seattle! :P | 14:51 |
| sballe | We can do parallel coding camps later | 14:51 |
| mestery | sballe: Agreed | 14:51 |
| jorgem | so I wanted to touch on one last agenda item | 14:51 |
| s3wong | mestery: we need to make sure video link and virtual white board is in place for collaboration | 14:51 |
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| blogan | sballe: +1 but not everyone will be able to make it and if they are in the same area they shoudl eb able to join in and we can do a video call | 14:51 |
| sbalukoff | sballe: +1 | 14:51 |
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| sbalukoff | blogan: +1 | 14:52 |
| mestery | blogan sballe: +1, Google Hangouts work marginally ok | 14:52 |
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| JulianCash | +1 s3wong | 14:52 |
| sballe | s3wong, +1 | 14:52 |
| aburaschi | Sorry to go back a few lines but... what are the certainties of Barbican becoming core for Juno? Or that is off topic and it is ok to integrate with incubation project right now, as old API will still be usable? | 14:52 |
| jorgem | I'll probably move the barbican agenda item to the ML | 14:52 |
| rm_work | aburaschi: i believe it was decided that it was acceptable | 14:52 |
| jorgem | aburaschi: Barbican integration is definitely within scope | 14:53 |
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| jorgem | the lbaas community has aggreed to that | 14:53 |
| aburaschi | jorgem, rm_work, thanks, great. | 14:53 |
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| jorgem | We met with the Rackspace Barbican folks yesterday and currently see two options | 14:53 |
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| jorgem | we are open to more options | 14:54 |
| jorgem | Here are the two options: | 14:54 |
| jorgem | 1.Create an eventing system for Barbican that Neutron LBaaS (and other services) consumes to identify when to update/delete updated secrets from Barbican. For those that aren't up to date with the Neutron LBaaS API Revision, the project/tenant/user provides a secret id when enabling SSL/TLS functionality. | 14:54 |
| jorgem | ◦Example: If a user makes a change to a secret in Barbican then Neutron LBaaS will see an event and take the appropriate action. | 14:54 |
| jorgem | 2.Push orchestration decisions to API users. This idea comes with two assumptions. The first assumption is that most providers' customers use the cloud via a GUI, which in turn can handle any orchestration decisions that need to be made. The second assumption is that power API users are savvy and can handle their decisions as well. Using this method requires services, such as LBaaS, to "register" in the form of metadata to a barb | 14:54 |
| jorgem | ◦Example: If a user makes a change to a secret the GUI can see which services are registered and opt to warn the user of consequences. Power users can look at the registered services and make decisions how they see fit. | 14:54 |
| jorgem | sorry for the splat :) | 14:54 |
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| aburaschi | hehe | 14:54 |
| crc32 | aburaschi: Yes barbican was expected in juno. | 14:54 |
| jorgem | In the interest of time though I will start a thread on the ML with these options | 14:55 |
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| german__ | Both are fantastic options... and I was already happy that barbican can store certs in containers... | 14:55 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: Are we going to try to discuss that now with 5 minutes left in this meeting? | 14:55 |
| JulianCash | Anybody spare a +1 or -1 on this name list? Does this idea/plan seem okay to you? Aiming for the name voting before hackathon, but it could be changed to at the hackathon so folks could talk aobut it in person. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/LBaaS_project_name_vote | 14:55 |
| jorgem | we can a little if you want | 14:55 |
| jorgem | its the last agenda items | 14:55 |
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| sbalukoff | JulainCash: I think there's some confusion as to what we're naming: The new LBaaS project, or the reference implementation for this project? | 14:55 |
| rm_work | jorgem: we are meeting in #neutron-lbaas about this after this meeting as well | 14:55 |
| jorgem | I think the main thing to discuss are the pros and cons of each | 14:56 |
| jorgem | and decide on a direction | 14:56 |
| mestery | jorgem: +1 | 14:56 |
| jorgem | either way will work. | 14:56 |
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| jorgem | However, if other teams have ideas I would love to hear them | 14:56 |
| sbalukoff | JulianCash: I've been calling the reference implementation we'll be creating "Octavia" but we have yet to come up with a name for what the not-Neutron LBaaS project should be. | 14:57 |
| aburaschi | I will check the list in detail after the meeting, JulianCash. I like the proposals. | 14:57 |
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| JulianCash | Thanks sbalukoff. In my mind "the new LBaaS project". | 14:57 |
| sbalukoff | JulianCash: But it should probably not have the same name, to avoid confusion. | 14:57 |
| blogan | I think it is a bit early to even spend time on the name of the lbaas project | 14:57 |
| hyakuhei | /win 8 | 14:57 |
| blogan | I'm interested in it too but naming things can devolve into hours of debates | 14:58 |
| aburaschi | blogan +1 | 14:58 |
| sballe | blogan, +1 | 14:58 |
| jorgem | blogan: +1 new lbaas project focus comes after hackathon | 14:58 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: +1 | 14:58 |
| crc32 | and meeting spamming to it seems. | 14:58 |
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| mestery | blogan: +1 | 14:58 |
| mestery | < 2 minutes left | 14:58 |
| mestery | Anything to wrapup here? | 14:59 |
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| jorgem | yes | 14:59 |
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| jorgem | one last thing | 14:59 |
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| jorgem | Is it possible for teams to frequently let others know what work you are focusing on? | 14:59 |
| enikanorov_ | #action team to follow up on neutron meeting about the implementation strategy | 14:59 |
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| jorgem | via ML? | 14:59 |
| mestery | jorgem: Yes! That's a good idea | 14:59 |
| jorgem | Just to get visibility on things | 14:59 |
| sballe | jorgem, that is part of the porxess I would like to discuss the first day of the hackathon | 15:00 |
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| sballe | s/process | 15:00 |
| aburaschi | jorgem +1! | 15:00 |
| jorgem | sballe: ok good! | 15:00 |
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| jorgem | just to address the elephant in the room :) | 15:00 |
| enikanorov_ | ok, thanks everyone | 15:00 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: +1, but I would like to see what you're looking for in particular. | 15:00 |
| crc32 | jorgem: Yea thats what I was hoping the wednsday meetins were going to be for but ... | 15:00 |
| s3wong | thanks, guys | 15:00 |
| enikanorov_ | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 5 15:00:55 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| aburaschi | Thank you all | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-06-05-14.01.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-06-05-14.01.txt | 15:00 |
| jorgem | thanks! | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-06-05-14.01.log.html | 15:00 |
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| JulianCash | Thanks a lot! | 15:01 |
| eglynn_ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 5 15:01:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eglynn_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:01 |
| DinaBelova | o/ | 15:01 |
| ityaptin | Hi! | 15:01 |
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| jd__ | o/ | 15:01 |
| vrovachev | hi all :) | 15:01 |
| nsaje | o/ | 15:01 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:01 |
| enikanorov_ | DinaBelova: o/ \o | 15:01 |
| rhochmuth | o/ | 15:01 |
| nealph | o/ | 15:01 |
| cmart | o/ | 15:01 |
| DinaBelova | enikanorov_ :D | 15:01 |
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| eglynn_ | good afternoon / good morning / good night all! | 15:01 |
| eglynn_ | #topic Juno-1 blueprints status | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno-1 blueprints status (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:02 | |
| eglynn_ | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/juno-1 | 15:02 |
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| _nadya_ | o/ | 15:03 |
| eglynn_ | gordc: do you think we'll have enough in the v1 api removal & retry rationalization to declare victory on the sqla BP for juno-1? | 15:03 |
| eglynn_ | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/big-data-sql | 15:03 |
| gordc | eglynn_: i was going to ask same thing... | 15:03 |
| eglynn_ | i.e. we could push the further improvements discussed with Mike Bayer out a 2nd dependent BP | 15:03 |
| eglynn_ | (and target that 2nd BP at juno-2) | 15:04 |
| gordc | it's not fully realised but it's enough for testing to continue. | 15:04 |
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| gordc | eglynn_: sounds like good plan. | 15:04 |
| gordc | i'm ok creating another bp and marking this one as complete | 15:04 |
| eglynn_ | gordc: yeah, it brought it from unviable to viable so I think that's good enough to put a stake in the ground for j1 | 15:04 |
| fabiog | o/ | 15:04 |
| eglynn_ | gordc: ... thanks if you could file that second BP, it would be great! | 15:04 |
| gordc | eglynn_: cool cool. i'll do that then. | 15:04 |
| eglynn_ | gordc: thank you! | 15:05 |
| eglynn_ | BTW folks we had a call yesterday evening with Mick Bayer, author of sqlalchemy | 15:05 |
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| eglynn_ | gordc steps him thru' the current schema and got some good feedback and pointers | 15:05 |
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| * cdent waves | 15:06 | |
| eglynn_ | rough notes here ... https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-sqlalchemy-mike-bayer | 15:06 |
| llu-laptop | great | 15:06 |
| eglynn_ | (... a bit of a scramble of my initial email conversations with Mike, gordc's comments, and a summary of the discussion on the call itself) | 15:06 |
| gordc | i would hide my irc handle if i were Mike... i can see a lot of questions coming his way. | 15:06 |
| DinaBelova | hehe :D My summary would be better if I had no connection issues :D | 15:06 |
| _nadya_ | just one plea from me is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87249/ . Review is very old but bp has juno-1 target. I'm still ready (and able) to answer all your comments | 15:06 |
| eglynn_ | _nadya_: are you confident of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/hbase-resource-rowkey-enhancement landing for juno-1? | 15:07 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn_: see my message above :) | 15:07 |
| eglynn_ | _nadya_: cool | 15:07 |
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| eglynn_ | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/grenade-upgrade-testing is pending EmilienM's patch landing | 15:08 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_, and btw | 15:08 |
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| llu-laptop | _nadya_: I tried once looking at the patch before, but failed because I had zero knowledge of hbase | 15:08 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_ about _nadya_'s change | 15:08 |
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| DinaBelova | it improves hbase performance dramatically | 15:08 |
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| _nadya_ | llu-laptop: yep, I understand, too specific change :( | 15:08 |
| DinaBelova | so if we want to test performance of different backends, her change is vital | 15:09 |
| eglynn_ | DinaBelova, _nadya_: excellent, we definitely need to get it for j-1 in that case | 15:09 |
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| eglynn_ | re. that grenade patch ... I discussed with Sean Dague on the -qa channel earlier | 15:10 |
| eglynn_ | ... should be no remaining blockers other than review bandwidth, so confident it will land for j1 | 15:10 |
| eglynn_ | cdent will be proposing a corresponding BP spec also | 15:10 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_, yeah, already seen it - it's cool! | 15:10 |
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| eglynn_ | idegtiarov: how about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/hbase-events-feature ? | 15:11 |
| cdent | Yeah, I was stubbing that in the start to that grenade spec just before this meeting. | 15:11 |
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| cdent | I'm sure it will require some judicious review as I only half know what I'm doing. | 15:11 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_, there is strange Jenkins error there.... gate is failing - one bug was fixed, so idegtiarov tried to recheck | 15:11 |
| eglynn_ | idegtiarov: will this patch suffice to declare vistory on it? ... https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91408/ | 15:11 |
| DinaBelova | we'll see what it was | 15:11 |
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| eglynn_ | DinaBelova: k | 15:11 |
| DinaBelova | change is ready to be reviewed | 15:11 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn_: idegtiarov is working on this. I hope it will be ready | 15:12 |
| eglynn_ | _nadya_: great! | 15:12 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn_: all tests passed locally | 15:12 |
| eglynn_ | prad: what about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/ceilometer-meter-lbaas ? | 15:12 |
| DinaBelova | that's why Jenkins fail looks suspicious... | 15:12 |
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| _nadya_ | eglynn_: we need several days for final version | 15:12 |
| sileht | o/ | 15:12 |
| idegtiarov | I am working! Hope all will be done in time. | 15:12 |
| DinaBelova | sileht, o/ | 15:13 |
| prad | eglynn_, started working on it | 15:13 |
| eglynn_ | _nadya_, idegtiarov: great, thanks! | 15:13 |
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| prad | o/ | 15:13 |
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| eglynn_ | prad: ... https://review.openstack.org/95784 is still WIP for now? (... worth getting eyes on?) | 15:13 |
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| prad | eglynn_, yes, worth taking a look.. i still need to incorporate the enum suggestion you had.. and working on unit tests and docs.. should have something by next week | 15:14 |
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| prad | eglynn_, yea left the sip as the spec was pending.. now that thats approved.. will have this for review by early next week | 15:15 |
| prad | but early eyes wouldn't hurt if someone has time to look at it | 15:15 |
| eglynn_ | prad: so for juno-1, we need to have it landed by say Tuesday next week | 15:15 |
| eglynn_ | prad: (juno-1 tag to be cut on Thurs) | 15:15 |
| prad | eglynn_, sure will try it get that in by then | 15:15 |
| prad | to* | 15:15 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_, hehe, if gate will be ok :) | 15:16 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_ to the time of j1 :) | 15:16 |
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| eglynn_ | DinaBelova: well, we trust in the powers of the QA folks! :) | 15:16 |
| DinaBelova | yeah, exactly :) | 15:17 |
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| eglynn_ | anyone anything else to add for j1? | 15:17 |
| llu-laptop | have any one successfully reproduce the bug locally? | 15:17 |
| llu-laptop | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1323524 | 15:17 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1323524 in ceilometer "tests.alarm.test_rpc.TestRPCAlarmPartitionCoordination.test_ordination_allocate failed for timeout" [Medium,Confirmed] | 15:17 |
| eglynn_ | llu-laptop: I couldn't, but didn't spend much time on it | 15:18 |
| gordc | llu-laptop: me neither... i assume it's related to this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1321826 | 15:18 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1321826 in ceilometer "periodic notifier unit test failure" [Medium,In progress] | 15:18 |
| eglynn_ | llu-laptop: I was thinking we might have to bump it to j2 ... if it's one of those transient issues that may take unbounded time to track down | 15:18 |
| llu-laptop | I couldn't either, thouh I run tox -e py27 quite lots of times these days due to another issue | 15:19 |
| gordc | seems like some oslo.messaging quirk | 15:19 |
| eglynn_ | gordc: yeap, my thought also | 15:19 |
| llu-laptop | eglynn_: agreed | 15:19 |
| eglynn_ | k, let's bump it | 15:19 |
| eglynn_ | #topic details of Juno mid-cycle meetup | 15:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "details of Juno mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:19 | |
| eglynn_ | ... brought to you by your gracious host, jd__ ;) | 15:19 |
| jd__ | aye | 15:20 |
| eglynn_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/ParisJuno2014 | 15:20 |
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| jd__ | so all details should be on that wiki page | 15:20 |
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| DinaBelova | last time we had no opportunity to learn the results :D | 15:20 |
| jd__ | if you got any question feel free to ask me as I'm organizing it mostly | 15:20 |
| eglynn_ | any advice on local hotels? | 15:20 |
| jd__ | eglynn_: good point, I can ask for that | 15:21 |
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| eglynn_ | jd__: cool, thanks! | 15:21 |
| gordc | jd__: how much to couchsurf at your place? | 15:21 |
| DinaBelova | gordc, hehe :D | 15:21 |
| llu-laptop | gordc: LoL | 15:22 |
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| _nadya_ | doh :( guys, you are too cruel | 15:22 |
| jd__ | lol | 15:22 |
| eglynn_ | AirBnB Paris stylee ... LOL :) | 15:22 |
| gordc | good business model. | 15:22 |
| jd__ | I'm sorry gordc you're not hot enough | 15:22 |
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| gordc | jd__: hahah fair enough | 15:23 |
| DinaBelova | jd__, probably some nice girl will be better :D | 15:23 |
| * jd__ high fives DinaBelova | 15:23 | |
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| jd__ | anyway we alredy are 3 for Ceilometer on this sprint so that's cool | 15:23 |
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| jd__ | sadly sileht won't be able to join | 15:23 |
| eglynn_ | really, that's a pity! | 15:23 |
| jd__ | yep | 15:23 |
| jd__ | he knows! | 15:24 |
| * sileht is sad | 15:24 | |
| _nadya_ | +1 | 15:24 |
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| jd__ | if you plan to come don't forget to update the wiki :) | 15:24 |
| * eglynn_ sad also :( | 15:24 | |
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| nealph | update the wiki so jd__ will know how many to make room for on his couch? | 15:24 |
| jd__ | exactly | 15:25 |
| nealph | : | 15:25 |
| eglynn_ | jd__: closer to the time, we could discuss a concrete agenda/goals etc.? | 15:26 |
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| jd__ | eglynn_: sounds like a good idea | 15:26 |
| eglynn_ | jd__: cool | 15:26 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_, offtopic - idegtiarov change is failing due to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1323524 | 15:26 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1323524 in ceilometer "tests.alarm.test_rpc.TestRPCAlarmPartitionCoordination.test_ordination_allocate failed for timeout" [Medium,Confirmed] | 15:26 |
| DinaBelova | just checked it | 15:26 |
| eglynn_ | DinaBelova: a-ha, that's the hard to reproduce bug mentioned above | 15:27 |
| eglynn_ | DinaBelova: ... failing consistently? | 15:27 |
| DinaBelova | yeah... | 15:27 |
| DinaBelova | two times | 15:27 |
| DinaBelova | lemme check it one more time if it is about this bug | 15:27 |
| DinaBelova | yeah, it's it | 15:27 |
| sileht | eglynn_, DinaBelova I have introduced this bug | 15:27 |
| DinaBelova | :( | 15:27 |
| eglynn_ | k, we'll need to look into that ... let's move on for now tho' | 15:27 |
| DinaBelova | ok | 15:27 |
| eglynn_ | #topic Tempest integration - branchless Tempest: skipping testcases against stable/icehouse | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest integration - branchless Tempest: skipping testcases against stable/icehouse (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:28 | |
| eglynn_ | so we'd some further discussions with mtreinish to clarify this | 15:28 |
| vrovachev | yeah, exactly | 15:28 |
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| eglynn_ | turns out that *both* a capabilities API *and* static test-skipping config are required | 15:29 |
| DinaBelova | api change is trying to be merged | 15:29 |
| DinaBelova | ... | 15:29 |
| DinaBelova | 22 hours | 15:29 |
| vrovachev | as for the devstack change it's almost merged | 15:29 |
| vrovachev | and there is tempest change - alsoalmost reviewed | 15:29 |
| eglynn_ | vrovachev: ... do you mean the static test-skipping config? | 15:30 |
| vrovachev | eglynn_, yes, it's for the config | 15:30 |
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| vrovachev | I mean devstack change | 15:30 |
| vrovachev | it sets needed flag - as Sean proposed to | 15:30 |
| eglynn_ | summary/explanation of the test skipping approach for anyone interested is in http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-qa/%23openstack-qa.2014-06-03.log | 15:31 |
| vrovachev | and after it'll be merged it'll be physical capability not to skip these tests | 15:31 |
| eglynn_ | "we need *both* a discoverable API and config-driven test exclusion" | 15:31 |
| eglynn_ | "... with the former used (indirectly) for public cloud testing, but *only* the latter relied upon in branchless tempest runs" | 15:31 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_, heh, yes :) | 15:31 |
| eglynn_ | cool enough, sounds like all will be well once the gating Gods smile upon us :) | 15:32 |
| DinaBelova | so I'll catch dtroyer to grab second +2 today | 15:32 |
| DinaBelova | yes, exactly :) | 15:32 |
| eglynn_ | DinaBelova: cool, thanks! | 15:32 |
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| eglynn_ | move on? | 15:32 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_, + | 15:32 |
| vrovachev | ok | 15:32 |
| eglynn_ | #topic TSDaaS/gnocchi update | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TSDaaS/gnocchi update (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:32 | |
| eglynn_ | jd__: the floor is yours ... | 15:33 |
| jd__ | thanks | 15:33 |
| jd__ | so we've made good progress on the indexing part | 15:33 |
| eglynn_ | cool | 15:33 |
| jd__ | to the point you're now able to create, update, list and search for resources | 15:33 |
| jd__ | the CI is in place too and working | 15:34 |
| jd__ | gating against py27/py33 and postgresql | 15:34 |
| jd__ | mysql is on its way | 15:34 |
| eglynn_ | *cough*, *cough*, py26? | 15:34 |
| jd__ | py26 too :) | 15:34 |
| DinaBelova | jd__, please use more self-describing commit messages, btw ;) | 15:34 |
| eglynn_ | thank you sir! :) | 15:34 |
| jd__ | next steps would be: | 15:34 |
| _nadya_ | jd__: do we have an api spec? Maybe I've missed that | 15:34 |
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| jd__ | - start working in Ceilometer pushing things into Gnocchi | 15:34 |
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| jd__ | - dig a bit in the pandas usage and entity API to provide more features | 15:35 |
| eglynn_ | amalagon: might be able to jump in there ^^^ | 15:35 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: no, we should be able to generate it somehow from the code I would hope | 15:35 |
| jd__ | but we can write it by hands for now if needed | 15:35 |
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| eglynn_ | (... to look into exponential smoothing and other black statistical arts) | 15:35 |
| DinaBelova | jd__, well, good spec will help to write good code | 15:36 |
| jd__ | so yeah anyone wanting to jump in welcome | 15:36 |
| amalagon | right | 15:36 |
| jd__ | eglynn_: definitely | 15:36 |
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| eglynn_ | excellent! | 15:36 |
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| _nadya_ | jd__: I guess that if we start working on gnocchi we need to have a strong plan | 15:36 |
| eglynn_ | BTW does the API feel like it converging on something relatively stable? | 15:36 |
| eglynn_ | ... or still very much in flux? | 15:36 |
| _nadya_ | jd__: I mean we need to be sure that all customer needs will be covered | 15:37 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: oh we need more people than a plan right now | 15:37 |
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| jd__ | eglynn_: so far it's converging as I'm not seeing any design issue | 15:37 |
| jd__ | eglynn_: more eyes would help though | 15:37 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: yeah my point about more eyes :) | 15:37 |
| jd__ | but having API users will help toward that too | 15:37 |
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| eglynn_ | jd__: cool :) ... BTW I was also thinking of amalagon working on python-gnocchiclient | 15:38 |
| eglynn_ | jd__: ... i,e, prolly best for her to concentrate on the most stable part of the API | 15:38 |
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| amalagon | yeah I was starting to look at python-ceilometerclient as a template | 15:38 |
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| jd__ | sounds good to me | 15:39 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_, if so, we definitely need API spec | 15:39 |
| DinaBelova | to write the client | 15:39 |
| DinaBelova | and keep it somehow stable | 15:39 |
| cdent | I think it would be a bad idea to stablize the api before having some significant use | 15:39 |
| eglynn_ | DinaBelova: well the basic API interactions can be just derived from the code/wiki etc. | 15:39 |
| DinaBelova | probably it's a good idea to start with it here before starting client work | 15:39 |
| cdent | otherwise we back ourselves into a corner | 15:39 |
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| _nadya_ | yep, and to understand the direction and roadmap actually | 15:40 |
| jd__ | well the API spec is the code | 15:40 |
| eglynn_ | cdent: yep, we don't want to lock this down too early IMO | 15:40 |
| DinaBelova | jd__, eglynn_, well, ok :) | 15:40 |
| llu-laptop | eglynn_: yes, we shouldn't | 15:40 |
| jd__ | I mean the code is pretty short and using pecan so it's pretty straightforward to have the spec from that | 15:41 |
| eglynn_ | ... almost certain some API changes/requirements will only become clear once we start integrating it into ceilo core | 15:41 |
| jd__ | and probably to auto generate it later | 15:41 |
| eglynn_ | jd__: +1 | 15:41 |
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| _nadya_ | eglynn_: please correct m if I'm wrong, but am I right that v3api will be mostly for gnocchi? | 15:42 |
| eglynn_ | _nadya_: yep my assumption is that the gnocchi will form the core of the v3 ceilometer API | 15:42 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn_: it's very big change and imho we need some poc, specs, glossary before implementing that | 15:43 |
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| eglynn_ | ... that said, we've yet to work out the details of bringing the gnocchi code into ceilo | 15:43 |
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| eglynn_ | ... issues like v2/v3 co-existence, migration of legacy data etc. | 15:44 |
| jd__ | right now we need to start using it by feeding data from Ceilometer | 15:44 |
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| jd__ | then we'll be able to figure the rest out | 15:44 |
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| eglynn_ | jd__: yeah ... maybe some or all of those questions ^^^ would be relevant to discuss at the Paris sprint? | 15:45 |
| jd__ | eglynn_: sure | 15:45 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn_, jd__, ok, and what's the plan? Who is working on this? only jd__? | 15:45 |
| jd__ | I'd love to spend time on that during the sprint :) | 15:45 |
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| eglynn_ | cool ... depends also on the rate of progress before then, I guess | 15:45 |
| jd__ | yes | 15:45 |
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| jd__ | _nadya_: for now, mostly me and DinaBelova's helping too | 15:46 |
| eglynn_ | also ildikov has expressed an interest in working on the ceilo core integration part | 15:46 |
| jd__ | and amalagon should do some stuff too | 15:46 |
| eglynn_ | yep | 15:46 |
| amalagon | :) yes! | 15:46 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn_, jd__, I'm just trying to figure out, sorry for noise :) | 15:46 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: np | 15:46 |
| eglynn_ | np! | 15:46 |
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| jd__ | anyway I've a long list of things to do etc wrt gnocchi so if you want to help and are bored, just come to me | 15:47 |
| jd__ | :-) | 15:47 |
| eglynn_ | jd__: cool :) | 15:47 |
| eglynn_ | anything else on TSD? | 15:47 |
| jd__ | that's all for me | 15:47 |
| cdent | jd__: is that list on the web anywhere? | 15:47 |
| _nadya_ | jd__: maybe you show us the list? | 15:47 |
| eglynn_ | cdent: it is now :) | 15:47 |
| jd__ | _nadya_, cdent: I had a gist but it's already outdated | 15:48 |
| jd__ | I don't maintain a list nobody's going to read :D | 15:48 |
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| DinaBelova | jd__, you had https://gist.github.com/jd/229ab8211aa9a6b547de | 15:48 |
| jd__ | thanks DinaBelova | 15:48 |
| jd__ | and most of that is implemented actually | 15:48 |
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| _nadya_ | jd__: am I right that first step is POC and it has 2 items: 1. Gnocchi code itself, 2. Integration with Ceilometer | 15:49 |
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| jd__ | _nadya_: 1. is pretty covered now I'd think but 2. is the most interesting one | 15:49 |
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| _nadya_ | jd__: after 2. you we may be able to create API spec, discuss that? | 15:50 |
| eglynn_ | _nadya_: there's also a third step ... 3. Migration of legacy data / deprecation path for v3 | 15:50 |
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| _nadya_ | jd__: *we may :) | 15:51 |
| eglynn_ | _nadya_: but some or all of that step #3 may be pushed out to the Kepler cycle | 15:51 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: the API is already there | 15:51 |
| * eglynn_ makes assumptions on the outcome of the K* naming poll | 15:51 | |
| jd__ | haha Kepler | 15:51 |
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| vrovachev | at what step we write integration tests? | 15:52 |
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| _nadya_ | eglynn_, jd__, are you gonna merge smth into Ceilometer master before api spec and all these conservative stuff? | 15:52 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: dunnow yet | 15:53 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn_, jd__, it's still not clear for me, is this POC or...? | 15:53 |
| eglynn_ | _nadya_: what format do you expect the API spec in? | 15:53 |
| eglynn_ | _nadya_: we could easily derive something basic from the code | 15:53 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: it's not POC, it's code that works and that's going to be production ready at some point | 15:53 |
| jd__ | where the code will belong is another issue | 15:53 |
| jd__ | but not very important anyway | 15:53 |
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| _nadya_ | jd__: ok, I see your point | 15:54 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_, well the thing here is about the fact that just created API probably can't satisfy the all use cases | 15:54 |
| DinaBelova | and all needs | 15:54 |
| eglynn_ | jd__: my initial thought was to bring it into the ceilo repo once the initial rapid iteration/innovation phase is done | 15:54 |
| jd__ | DinaBelova: well then someone should tell us why :) | 15:54 |
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| eglynn_ | jd__: ... are you thinking otherwise? | 15:54 |
| eglynn_ | DinaBelova: so let's identify the missing use-cases | 15:55 |
| jd__ | eglynn_: yeah that's a possibility, I'm also thinking that since it has no use of any part of the current Ceilometer code base it should stay autonomous as it can be used without the rest of ceilometer too | 15:55 |
| jd__ | eglynn_: I think it's something to discuss in a month around beers | 15:55 |
| eglynn_ | jd__: fair nuffski :) | 15:55 |
| eglynn_ | DinaBelova: ... my feeling is that many of the missing usecases will be shaken out during the ceilo core integration phase | 15:56 |
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| _nadya_ | eglynn_: about format. I expect examples at least | 15:56 |
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| jd__ | _nadya_: do you want to try to write the specs and the examples? | 15:57 |
| eglynn_ | jd__: ... but either way, will need at least to be under the Telemetry program umbrella, right? | 15:57 |
| jd__ | eglynn_: definitely! | 15:57 |
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| eglynn_ | jd__: cool | 15:57 |
| _nadya_ | jd__: honestly, I wish I could :( | 15:57 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn_, I just think that or other backends (and probably use cases, etc) it might not be ready - and that't why I think some additional planning and at least more community noise about this will be cool | 15:57 |
| DinaBelova | heh | 15:57 |
| eglynn_ | _nadya_, DinaBelova: folks with misgivings about this approach, let's try to gather some *specific* concerns on an etherpad before next week's meeting | 15:58 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: haaaa I knew you were just doing your wishlist for your next birthday or something! ;) | 15:58 |
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| jd__ | I agree with eglynn_, "thinking that it might not be ok" is not gonna help | 15:58 |
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| jd__ | I want facts and use cases. | 15:58 |
| eglynn_ | _nadya_, DinaBelova: that way we can structure the discussion, and knock down any issues that we have answers for already | 15:59 |
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| DinaBelova | well, ok, let's close this discussion for now | 15:59 |
| _nadya_ | jd__: yep, for my baby birthday:) | 15:59 |
| cdent | hour's up | 15:59 |
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| eglynn_ | #topic Discussion about Alarm Management design for Horizon | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion about Alarm Management design for Horizon (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:59 | |
| fabiog | eglynn_ can you post the etherpad link for the discussion, please | 16:00 |
| eglynn_ | not much more to say than ... | 16:00 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: :-) | 16:00 |
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| eglynn_ | discussed in detail on the ML http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-June/036627.html : Liz Blanchard to come back with another iteration next week | 16:00 |
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| eglynn_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/alarm-management-page-design-discussion | 16:00 |
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| cmart | I'll be working on the horizon side so any comments/feedback will be appreciated. | 16:00 |
| eglynn_ | ^^^ further discussion should probably wait on Liz Blancard's next version of the wireframes | 16:00 |
| eglynn_ | cmart: cool | 16:00 |
| eglynn_ | k, we're over-time here | 16:01 |
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| eglynn_ | cmart: happy to punt this on to next week? | 16:01 |
| cmart | eglynn_: sure! no problem! | 16:01 |
| eglynn_ | cmart: thank you sir! | 16:01 |
| eglynn_ | thanks all for a productive discussion! | 16:01 |
| jd__ | thanks! | 16:01 |
| eglynn_ | #endmeeting ceilometer | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 5 16:01:56 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-06-05-15.01.html | 16:01 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-06-05-15.01.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-06-05-15.01.log.html | 16:02 |
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| mtreinish | #startmeeting qa | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 5 17:00:56 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | Hi, who's here today? | 17:01 |
| asselin | Hi | 17:01 |
| andreaf | hi | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | ^^^ Today's agenda | 17:01 |
| mlavalle | Hi | 17:02 |
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| mtreinish | dkranz, sdague, mkoderer, afazekas: are you guys around? | 17:02 |
| asselin | I will add my spec review to the agenda | 17:02 |
| dkranz | Hi | 17:02 |
| mtreinish | well anyway let's get started | 17:02 |
| mtreinish | #topic Mid-Cycle Meetup (mtreinish) | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid-Cycle Meetup (mtreinish) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:03 | |
| * afazekas o/ | 17:03 | |
| mtreinish | So I just wanted to remind everyone about the qa/infra mid cycle we're going to be having | 17:03 |
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| mtreinish | the details can be found here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Qa_Infra_Meetup_2014 | 17:03 |
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| mtreinish | I expect that the schedule for that week will change a bit more over the next week | 17:04 |
| mtreinish | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Qa_Infra_Meetup_2014 | 17:04 |
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| mtreinish | I really didn't have much else for this topic, unless anyone had any questions about it | 17:04 |
| ylobankov | hi folks. Sorry, I am late | 17:05 |
| vrovachev | hi all :) | 17:05 |
| mtreinish | ok, well I guess we'll move to the next topic | 17:05 |
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| mtreinish | #topic Unstable API testing in Tempest (mtreinish) | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Unstable API testing in Tempest (mtreinish) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:06 | |
| mtreinish | so this is something that came up the other day in a review | 17:06 |
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| mtreinish | and I know we talked about it with regards to v3 testing | 17:06 |
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| mtreinish | but since we've moved to branchless tempest I feel that we really can't support testing unstable apis in tempest | 17:06 |
| andreaf | mtreinish: +1 | 17:07 |
| mtreinish | if the api doesn't conform to the stability guidlines because it's still in development than we really can't be testing it | 17:07 |
| andreaf | mtreinish: Neutron's model of testing in tree and then promoting to tempest sounds like a good option for unstable APIs | 17:07 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: yeah I'd like to see that, but we have yet to see it implemented | 17:08 |
| mtreinish | it would definitely solve this problem once it's in full swing | 17:08 |
| mtreinish | oh for reference the review this came up in was an ironic api change: | 17:08 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/95789 | 17:08 |
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| mtreinish | I'm thinking we should codify this policy somewhere | 17:09 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: ++ | 17:09 |
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| dkranz | mtreinish: If we are talking about a whole service api, like ironic, why not just set the enable flag to false in the gate? | 17:09 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: I mean as a temporary measure, not a substitute for the other ideas. | 17:09 |
| sdague | dkranz: well that doesn't really address the unstable thing | 17:09 |
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| dkranz | sdague: It means that for gating purposes, it is out of tree. | 17:10 |
| andreaf | mtreinish: the alternative here would be micro-versions in ironic :) | 17:10 |
| sdague | andreaf: they'd have to implement that | 17:10 |
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| sdague | which I don't think they've talked about yet | 17:10 |
| dkranz | sdague: Same as if it were actually out-of-tree which was the other proposal | 17:10 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: yeah, but this example is actually a field removal so it'd be a major version... | 17:10 |
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| andreaf | sdague: yes of course - but it seems to be problem common to everyone | 17:11 |
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| mtreinish | dkranz: what I'm proposing is just drawing the line in the sand now, and we can figure out how to deal with the unstable apis we have in tree after that | 17:11 |
| mtreinish | there shouldn't be too many | 17:11 |
| andreaf | sdague: perhaps micro versions is something every project should have - also it would bring a more consistent experience | 17:12 |
| sdague | yeh, I agree | 17:12 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: I'm also not sure it's the entire api surface for ironic | 17:12 |
| sdague | andreaf: it's a good goal, we don't have any that do it yet | 17:12 |
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| mtreinish | so do we think a new section in the readme is good enough | 17:12 |
| mtreinish | or should we start storing these things somwhere else | 17:12 |
| mtreinish | ? | 17:12 |
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| sdague | new readme section is probably the right starting point | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | ok, then I'll push out a patch adding that | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | #action mtreinish to add a readme section about only testing stable apis in tempest | 17:13 |
| sdague | if we have a consistent topic for just docs changes, we could pop that to the top of the dashboard | 17:13 |
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| sdague | to have people review docs changes faster | 17:13 |
| andreaf | mtreinish, sdague: the problem I see when reviewing is how we define a stable API | 17:13 |
| sdague | andreaf: example? | 17:14 |
| andreaf | meaning until we don't have a test for something we don't know | 17:14 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: if it's in tempest it's stable... | 17:14 |
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| mtreinish | there is no turning back | 17:14 |
| dkranz | andreaf: Right | 17:14 |
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| mkoderer | hi | 17:15 |
| andreaf | ok fine so we let an API become progressively stable test by test ... as long as something does not have a test it's not stable | 17:15 |
| dkranz | andreaf: No, I don't think that't right. | 17:15 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: that's a separate problem, which is really just api surface coverage. This is more to prevent projects that explicitly say their apis will be changing but they're adding tests to tempest | 17:15 |
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| sdague | right, I'm more concerned about the second thing | 17:16 |
| andreaf | ok | 17:16 |
| sdague | if a project doesn't believe the api is stable, and they tell us that, then we don't land those interfaces | 17:16 |
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| sdague | because they've said explicitly that they don't believe it to be a contract | 17:16 |
| dkranz | sdague: marun's proposal is the only clean way to address this I think. | 17:17 |
| sdague | dkranz: sure | 17:17 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: or they don't tell us, ignore the new readme section, something gets merged and then they're locked into the stability guidelines :) | 17:17 |
| sdague | sure | 17:17 |
| andreaf | I'm just thinking about an easy way to be consistent in reviews on this - so if there is a place where projects publish the fact that an API is stable, we can -2 directly any test for unstable stuff | 17:18 |
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| mtreinish | andreaf: well I think this only really applies to new major api versions and incubated projects | 17:18 |
| sdague | yeh, I had some vague thoughts about all of that. But my brain is too gate focussed right now to take the context switch. | 17:19 |
| sdague | andreaf: maybe propose something as a readme patch? | 17:19 |
| sdague | and we can sift it there | 17:19 |
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| sdague | it honestly might be nice to have a REVIEWING.rst | 17:19 |
| andreaf | sdague: +1 | 17:19 |
| sdague | or do more in it | 17:19 |
| sdague | oh, I have a local file that I started fo rthat | 17:20 |
| mtreinish | yeah I was thinking about doing that as a wiki page like nova does | 17:20 |
| sdague | I personally prefer it in the tree | 17:20 |
| sdague | because then changing it is reviewed, and it's there when you check things out | 17:20 |
| andreaf | mtreinish: or a link in tree to a wiki page | 17:20 |
| andreaf | :D | 17:20 |
| sdague | I find stuff in the wiki ends up logically too far away | 17:20 |
| sdague | and no one notices when it changes | 17:20 |
| sdague | so we mentally fork | 17:21 |
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| mtreinish | you can subscribe to a page... | 17:21 |
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| mkoderer | +1 for in the tree | 17:21 |
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| mtreinish | but I get what you're saying | 17:21 |
| mtreinish | the location doesn't really matter as long as we have it | 17:21 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: do you want an action to start that? | 17:21 |
| sdague | sure | 17:22 |
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| mtreinish | #action sdague to start a REVIEWING.rst file for tempest | 17:22 |
| mtreinish | ok then is there anything else on this topic? | 17:22 |
| sdague | when we get to open talk, I want to discuss a couple suggestions after debugging some gate things | 17:23 |
| mtreinish | #topic Specs Review | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs Review (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:23 | |
| mtreinish | sdague: ok | 17:23 |
| mtreinish | sdague: actually I'll make that a topic because I'm not sure we'll get to open | 17:23 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: I think you posted the first one on the agenda | 17:24 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94473/ | 17:24 |
| mkoderer | do we -1 patches that didn't have a merged spec? | 17:24 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: Yes, boris-42 put in this spec but there is not enough detail | 17:24 |
| asselin | (I added mine to the agenda https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97589/) | 17:24 |
| mtreinish | mkoderer: yeah if the bp isn't approved yet we shouldn't merge the patches as part of it | 17:24 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: He did not respond to the comment yet and I am not sure if he intends to move forward with this or not. | 17:25 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: yeah it doesn't really have any design in it, it just explains what the script will be used for | 17:25 |
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| dkranz | mtreinish: The last comment from him was May 23 | 17:25 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: well I guess ping boris-42 after the meeting, and if he doesn't respond we can open a parallel one up | 17:26 |
| mkoderer | mtreinish: yep we need to have a look at this... couldn't jenkins do a -1 automatically | 17:26 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: I guess I will follow up with him | 17:26 |
| sdague | mkoderer: I think that's over optimizing at this point | 17:26 |
| mkoderer | sdague: ok :) | 17:26 |
| sdague | especially as as a team we're kind of terrible about tagging commit messages | 17:26 |
| mtreinish | I know I am... | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | ok the next spec on the agenda is asselin's: | 17:27 |
| sdague | we'll let another project build that infrastructure first, then see if we want to use it :) | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97589/ | 17:27 |
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| mtreinish | asselin: so go ahead | 17:28 |
| asselin | Hi, this is something that hemna and sdague talked about in Hong Kong. | 17:28 |
| asselin | Where the API calls success and failures are automatically tracked during stress tests | 17:28 |
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| mkoderer | asselin: so you want to enhance the statistics? | 17:28 |
| asselin | yes, there's an implementation out for review. | 17:29 |
| mkoderer | asselin: ok cool I will have a look | 17:29 |
| mkoderer | link? | 17:29 |
| asselin | sample output is available here at the end: http://paste.openstack.org/show/73469/ | 17:29 |
| asselin | Stress Test API Tracking: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90449/ | 17:29 |
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| mkoderer | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90449/ | 17:30 |
| asselin | in the above output, lines 18-32 were 'manually' added to the stress action. | 17:30 |
| asselin | With the new code, lines 34-85 show which api calls were made, and how many passed, failed. | 17:30 |
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| mtreinish | asselin: so I haven't looked at this in detail yet, but the way your tracking api calls | 17:31 |
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| mtreinish | could that also be used in the non stress case too? | 17:31 |
| asselin | yes, I believe so | 17:31 |
| mkoderer | asselin: I think we don't need the manual way.. | 17:31 |
| mtreinish | asselin: ok that may be useful as part of tracking leaks in general tempest runs too | 17:32 |
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| mtreinish | I'll look at your spec and comment there | 17:32 |
| asselin | mkoderer, yes, that's exactly the point: no need to do the manul way anymore | 17:32 |
| mkoderer | just tracking the api calls look sufficient for me | 17:32 |
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| mkoderer | asselin: ok cool | 17:32 |
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| asselin | there's another patch for cinder tests here: Cinder Stress/CHO Test: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94690/ | 17:32 |
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| asselin | this one previously had the manual calls. | 17:33 |
| asselin | they are all now removed | 17:33 |
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| mtreinish | ok, so take a look at this spec proposal to give it some feedback. It seems reasonable to me. :) | 17:33 |
| asselin | and by previously, I meant before it was submitted for review. | 17:33 |
| asselin | mtreinish, thanks! | 17:33 |
| mtreinish | ok are there any other specs people want to bring up | 17:33 |
| andreaf | yes | 17:33 |
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| mtreinish | andreaf: ok go ahead | 17:34 |
| andreaf | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86967/ | 17:34 |
| andreaf | non-admin one | 17:34 |
| andreaf | I submitted an update on dkranz 's work | 17:34 |
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| andreaf | from the discussions at the summit it seems that the only kind of admin work we can avoid for now is tenant isolation | 17:35 |
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| sdague | andreaf: right, but I don't want to give that up | 17:35 |
| sdague | which means I still feel like this is part 2 | 17:35 |
| sdague | and part 1 is preallocated ids | 17:35 |
| andreaf | until we have hierarchical multitenancy we won't be able to do things like list all vms in a domain | 17:35 |
| sdague | at which point we delete the non tenant isolation case | 17:35 |
| sdague | there in simplifying tempest in the process | 17:36 |
| mtreinish | sdague: +1, although the non tenant isolation case would just be a list len of 1 for the preallocated ids | 17:37 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: sure | 17:37 |
| andreaf | sdague: so I think we should remove user and user_alt and just have user provider that either uses tenant isolation or an array of configured users | 17:37 |
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| sdague | andreaf: yes exactly | 17:37 |
| dkranz | andreaf: +1 | 17:37 |
| dkranz | I'm still not sure how we pass the user in from calls to testr in that case | 17:37 |
| sdague | now we just need someone who wants to do that | 17:37 |
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| sdague | dkranz: there might be some trickiness there | 17:38 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: yeah there is an interesting problem to determine how many threads we're safe for | 17:38 |
| sdague | but, honestly, we have to solve it | 17:38 |
| sdague | even if we decide the solution is a tempest binary | 17:38 |
| mtreinish | or we could just allow overcommit and just lock on having available creds | 17:38 |
| sdague | to wrap it | 17:38 |
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| dkranz | sdague: I agree, but feel a lack of testr expertise | 17:38 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: or just die | 17:38 |
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| mtreinish | heh, yeah that's probably a better idea :) | 17:39 |
| sdague | if you try to run concurency of more than your users, die | 17:39 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: the fuzziness is the alt user | 17:39 |
| andreaf | we could do a config consistency check before starting the tests | 17:39 |
| dkranz | I'm not sure how a list of users would actually work in terms of tempest deciding which one to use. It would have to be per-thread | 17:39 |
| sdague | mtreinish: more than user +1 | 17:39 |
| afazekas | At class load time a process can lock on one demo and alt_demo user | 17:39 |
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| sdague | users[-1] is the alt user | 17:39 |
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| mtreinish | well it's user + n | 17:40 |
| mtreinish | because if you need an alt user for all the workers at once | 17:40 |
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| sdague | I think we typically only need 1 alt user globally | 17:40 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: Doesn't each worker need its own alt_user? | 17:40 |
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| mtreinish | but anyway we can figure that out later | 17:40 |
| mtreinish | we're down to 20 min | 17:40 |
| mtreinish | so let's move on | 17:40 |
| sdague | ok, so who's spearheading this one? | 17:40 |
| andreaf | mtreinish: so we need a spec, I can start a bp | 17:41 |
| sdague | andreaf: cool | 17:41 |
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| andreaf | #action andreaf start bp on static users | 17:41 |
| mtreinish | ok, then lets move on | 17:41 |
| andreaf | mtreinish: I had another spec I wanted to mention | 17:42 |
| andreaf | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96163/ | 17:42 |
| andreaf | this is the test server, client, gui | 17:42 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: ok, do you want to save that for next week when masayukig is around? | 17:42 |
| andreaf | ok sure | 17:42 |
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| mtreinish | ok cool | 17:42 |
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| mtreinish | #topic how to save the gate (sdague) | 17:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "how to save the gate (sdague) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:43 | |
| mtreinish | sdague: you've got the floor | 17:43 |
| sdague | man, that's a much bigger thing than I was going for | 17:43 |
| sdague | :) | 17:43 |
| sdague | ok, so a couple of things when dealing with failures | 17:43 |
| sdague | first off, we explode during teardown some times on resource deletes | 17:44 |
| sdague | and whether or not the test author thought delete was part of their path, explode on teardown sucks | 17:44 |
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| sdague | so I think we need a concerted effort to make sure that our teardown paths are safe | 17:44 |
| sdague | and just log warn if they leak a thing | 17:45 |
| mkoderer | sdague: I proposed a safe teardown mechanism https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84645/ | 17:45 |
| mkoderer | but I need to write a spec before ;) | 17:45 |
| mkoderer | not sure if this helps | 17:45 |
| sdague | mkoderer: oh, cool | 17:45 |
| mtreinish | sdague: but explode how, like if it's an unexpected error on a delete call shouldn't that be a big issue that causes a failure? | 17:45 |
| sdague | mtreinish: honestly... I'm pretty mixed on that | 17:46 |
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| sdague | because I have a feeling that if we treated all deletes like that | 17:46 |
| sdague | we'd never pass | 17:46 |
| sdague | the only reason tempest passes is because we leak | 17:46 |
| afazekas | explode on teardown is ok, and still fails the related test | 17:46 |
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| sdague | afazekas: honestly, I don't think it is ok | 17:47 |
| sdague | if you want to test delete, do it explicitly | 17:47 |
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| dkranz | sdague: +1, but the leaks are still bugs | 17:47 |
| sdague | dkranz: sure | 17:47 |
| sdague | but we can solve those orthogonally | 17:47 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: but isn't kind of the same thing as a setup failure. We're not explicitly testing those calls but something failed | 17:48 |
| andreaf | sdague afazekas failures in fixtures is something we should perhaps write warnings and collect stats | 17:48 |
| dkranz | sdague: Yes, at this point I think we need to agressively stop failures that are due to "known" bugs | 17:48 |
| mtreinish | I just think moving on if a delete explodes is going to mask the real failure | 17:48 |
| afazekas | sdague: explicitly by addCleanUp ? | 17:48 |
| mtreinish | and cause something elsewhere | 17:48 |
| sdague | afazekas: no, explicitly by callling delete | 17:48 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: When the gate becomes reliable again we can add failures back | 17:48 |
| sdague | the problem is there is too much implicit | 17:49 |
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| sdague | so even people familiar with the tempest code take a long time to unwind this | 17:49 |
| afazekas | sdague: and where do we want to reallocate the resources allocated before the delete ? | 17:49 |
| dkranz | afazekas: No, by calling delete not in addCleanUp | 17:49 |
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| afazekas | deallocate | 17:49 |
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| sdague | afazekas: in the test function | 17:49 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: that's what I'm saying is I don't think this will necessarily make fixing the gate easier | 17:49 |
| sdague | test_foo_* is where you make calls | 17:49 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: It might not. But it might. | 17:50 |
| afazekas | sdague: resource leak on failure is ok ? | 17:50 |
| sdague | afazekas: if it has WARN in the log about it | 17:50 |
| dkranz | I don't think it is ok but we are drowning in failures, right? | 17:50 |
| sdague | then we are tracking it at least | 17:50 |
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| sdague | dkranz: yes, very much so | 17:50 |
| sdague | every single tempest fix to remove a race I did yesterday | 17:51 |
| sdague | was failed by another race | 17:51 |
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| dkranz | sdague: So I was just suggesting we stop "known" failures until we get it under control | 17:51 |
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| afazekas | Dow we want to avoid this kind of issues ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/tempest/+bug/1257641 | 17:51 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1257641 in tempest "Quota exceeded for instances: Requested 1, but already used 10 of 10 instances" [Medium,Confirmed] | 17:51 |
| sdague | dkranz: sure, I'm also suggesting a different pattern here | 17:51 |
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| dkranz | sdague: So make sure whatever is actually testing delete does so explicitly and don't fail on cleanup delete failures, just warn. | 17:52 |
| mkoderer | I think this topic would be nice for the mid cycle meetup to work together on it | 17:52 |
| dkranz | sdague: I think that is what you are saying, right? | 17:52 |
| sdague | dkranz: yep, exactly | 17:52 |
| sdague | the test_* should be explicit about what it tests | 17:52 |
| dkranz | sdague: Yes, that was my review comment as well. | 17:52 |
| sdague | and teardown is for reclamation and shouldn't be fatal | 17:52 |
| dkranz | sdague: I would say more that it should be, but we suspend that for now. | 17:52 |
| andreaf | sdague: +1 | 17:52 |
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| andreaf | sdague: for api tests specifically - in scenario I would often include the cleanup in the test itself | 17:53 |
| sdague | dkranz: well once tempest is actually keeping track of 100% of it's resources, I might agree | 17:53 |
| sdague | andreaf: sure, and that's fine | 17:53 |
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| sdague | just make it explicit | 17:53 |
| afazekas | How will we see if jobs randomly just WARN on a failed delete ? | 17:53 |
| sdague | afazekas: it's in the logs | 17:53 |
| sdague | and the logs are indexed | 17:54 |
| afazekas | sdague: nobody reads them if the test suite passed | 17:54 |
| andreaf | sdague: I think we need tools to analyse the logs and | 17:54 |
| sdague | sure, we need all those things | 17:54 |
| sdague | but if we can't ever land a tempest patch again, then it's kind of useless :) | 17:54 |
| andreaf | trigger warnings perhaps to the DL or in iRC | 17:54 |
| dkranz | afazekas: I think the point is that there are race bugs around delete, and we know that, but we can't keep failing because of them | 17:54 |
| afazekas | dkranz: bug link ? | 17:55 |
| dkranz | afazekas: We now have to accept the risk of a regression around this issue to get things working. | 17:55 |
| sdague | afazekas: and realistically people have been talking about tracking resourses forever, and no one ever did that work | 17:55 |
| dkranz | afazekas: There is no bug link because no one has any idea of why the deletes fail as far as I know. | 17:55 |
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| afazekas | dkranz: no bug, no issue to solve | 17:56 |
| dkranz | Unless I am wrong about that. | 17:56 |
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| sdague | afazekas: sorry, some of us have been too busy fighting fires in real time to write up all the bugs | 17:56 |
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| andreaf | so step1 we need to "ignore" failed deletes and get the gate back and then we can go from there? | 17:56 |
| sdague | andreaf: yeh | 17:57 |
| sdague | though honestly, this was only one of 2 items | 17:57 |
| dkranz | andreaf: What other choice is there? | 17:57 |
| sdague | the other is we need to stop being overly clever and reusing servers | 17:57 |
| sdague | so I proposed that patch for promote | 17:57 |
| mtreinish | I'm still not convinced just switching exceptions to be log warns in the short term is going to make it easier to debug. Because of all the shared state between tests, but I'll defer to the consensus | 17:57 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: +1 on the second point | 17:57 |
| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97842/ | 17:58 |
| sdague | we do it in image snapshots as well | 17:58 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: I don't think the point was about being easier to debug, just to be able to get patches through. | 17:58 |
| sdague | I'll propose a patch for that later today | 17:58 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: but that too, I think it'll just shift fails to other places | 17:58 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: it might | 17:58 |
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| dkranz | mtreinish: and we will see that if it happens and learn something | 17:58 |
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| afazekas | I would like to see several logs/jobs where we had just delete issues. | 17:58 |
| sdague | the other thing that would be really awesome | 17:58 |
| sdague | afazekas: well, dive in and fix gate bugs, and you'll see them | 17:59 |
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| andreaf | so I think we have 1 min left? | 17:59 |
| mtreinish | yeah we're basically at time | 17:59 |
| mlavalle | Before we go, Could I have some core reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83627 and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/47816. There was some overlap in these two patchsets, but I fixed it this past week. So they are good to go | 17:59 |
| dkranz | We can move to qa channel | 18:00 |
| sdague | yeh, so one parting thought | 18:00 |
| afazekas | sdague: I frequently check the logs after failures, and I can't recall | 18:00 |
| mtreinish | well there is a meeting after us I think | 18:00 |
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| mtreinish | so I'm going to call it | 18:00 |
| sdague | ok, parting in -qa | 18:00 |
| mtreinish | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 5 18:00:41 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-06-05-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-06-05-17.00.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-06-05-17.00.log.html | 18:00 |
| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 5 18:00:49 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| mxin | hi, all | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:00 |
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| bdpayne | #topic Rollcall | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rollcall (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:01 | |
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| * bdpayne running the meeting for Rob today | 18:01 | |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| malini1 | present | 18:01 |
| mxin | Happy OpenSSL Thursday! | 18:01 |
| shohel | hi | 18:01 |
| bknudson | not again! | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | mxin ha | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne | yes, for those that haven't heard https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | it's probably time to upgrade again | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | so hi to all that are here | 18:02 |
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| nkinder | hi all | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | I'm filling in for Rob today, it was a last minute thing so I'm just kind of rolling with the flow here ;-) | 18:02 |
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| bdpayne | #topic Agenda | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:02 | |
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| bdpayne | Anything people would like to add to the agenda | 18:03 |
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| bdpayne | anything at all? | 18:03 |
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| bknudson | what's the agenda? | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | Well, I have two minor things | 18:04 |
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| bdpayne | I'd like to discuss the mid-cycle meetup | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | and I'd like to discuss a new time for this IRC meeting | 18:04 |
| mxin | cool | 18:04 |
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| bdpayne | anything else that people would like to discuss | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | ? | 18:04 |
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| bdpayne | ok, sounds good | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | so let's push ahead | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | #topic IRC Meeting time | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "IRC Meeting time (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:05 | |
| sriramhere | sorry guys for being little late, howdy | 18:05 |
| bknudson | I might be making some progress towards getting our group here to help community support stable releases longer | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | So we've have an email thread about changing the time of this meeting | 18:05 |
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| CristianF | Just joining, hi everyone | 18:05 |
| bknudson | the proposed new meeting time works for me | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | the proposal is to change this to Thursdays at 1700 - 1800 UTC in #openstack-meeting-alt | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | We will be starting with this new time *next week* | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | So please consider this your heads up :-) | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | I'll make sure that the wiki page for the meeting is updated in short order | 18:06 |
| dg_ | sounds good | 18:06 |
| bknudson | so also switching meeting rooms | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | yeah, that's what Rob had indicated | 18:06 |
| malini1 | works for me | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | ok, so update your calendars | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | moving along to the next topic | 18:07 |
| mxin | it should work for me | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | #topic Mid-cycle meetup | 18:07 |
| shohel | good for me also | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:07 | |
| bdpayne | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ossg-juno-meetup | 18:07 |
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| bdpayne | If you would like to attend the OSSG mid-cycle meetup, please make sure your date prefs are noted on this etherpad | 18:08 |
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| bdpayne | We are currently planning to hold this event at HP in Seattle | 18:08 |
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| shohel | is there any agenda defined for the meetup | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | Right now it looks like July 14 - July 18 is the leading week | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | We will use the time to drive the primary efforts forward (book, ossn, and threat analysis) | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | people involved in each of those areas will want to put together an agenda with their respective groups | 18:09 |
| dg_ | who should I talk to about getting involved with the threat analysis efforts? | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | there may also be some time for getting tracting on 1 or 2 new efforts, but that's tbd | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | dg_ I think Rob Clark and shohel | 18:09 |
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| dg_ | bdpayne thanks I'll talk to Rob | 18:10 |
| * tmcpeak sorry I'm late | 18:10 | |
| bdpayne | sorry that I don't have more details on the agenda for the meetup | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | I think that Rob's working on that, so expect something before too long | 18:10 |
| shohel | thats sounds good | 18:10 |
| mxin | it works for me. | 18:10 |
| tmcpeak | did we firm a date? | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | any other thoughts / discussion on the mid-cycle meetup? | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | tmcpeak We are doing final voting for the date today | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | should lock it in tomorrow or early next week | 18:11 |
| tmcpeak | cool, sounds good. What forum? | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | \https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ossg-juno-meetup | 18:11 |
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| bdpayne | #topic Open Discussion | 18:12 |
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| bdpayne | So that's all that I had for today's meeting. Anything else that people would like to discuss? | 18:12 |
| shohel | i would like to add something regarding threat analysis work | 18:12 |
| shohel | i have added a process chart in the wiki | 18:12 |
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| shohel | as discussed in the summit | 18:12 |
| shohel | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Threat_Analysis/process | 18:12 |
| shohel | feedback ? | 18:13 |
| CristianF | shohel: will take a look, thanks for sharing | 18:13 |
| shohel | mainly how the initiation until finalising the report | 18:13 |
| shohel | need to add more details though | 18:14 |
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| bknudson | shohel: this looks great | 18:14 |
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| bdpayne | yeah, this is a good start, but more details would be useful | 18:14 |
| sriramhere | Bryan - did u say that agenda is to be determined by people who are involved in various efforts | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | yes, I did | 18:14 |
| tmcpeak | shohel: yeah, great to get this all written down, +1 | 18:14 |
| mxin | Thanks for the efforts. | 18:15 |
| sriramhere | ok good. how are we converging all these agendas? | 18:15 |
| sriramhere | Is Rob going to be the central person, or just jump on etherpad | 18:15 |
| sriramhere | ? | 18:15 |
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| bdpayne | Rob will be the guy planning this | 18:15 |
| dg_ | shohel looks good, will take a look at the threat modelling process to see what it breaks down into | 18:15 |
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| bdpayne | I think we should wait for him to get the specifics | 18:16 |
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| bdpayne | might be worth starting a thread on the mailing list about it though | 18:16 |
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| sriramhere | ok - can I take the action item to start the email thread? | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | yes please | 18:16 |
| tmcpeak | please do | 18:17 |
| sriramhere | cool | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | #action sriramhere to start email thread about meetup agenda | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | Also, I ran across this today and I think it needs some security input: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97900/ | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | Heat encrypting params | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | Anyone here comfortable with crypto review? | 18:17 |
| dg_ | bdpayne in a past life yes | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | may be worth putting some eyes on this if you have time | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | it's a relatively small patch | 18:19 |
| bknudson | looks like they've got a crypt module already | 18:19 |
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| dg_ | I'll take a look tomorrow, but other people are probably more current, its been a few years for me | 18:19 |
| bknudson | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/heat/tree/heat/common/crypt.py | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | bknudson yes | 18:19 |
| tmcpeak | along similar lines, I've been chewing over something I'm curious about OSSG thoughts on | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | this is more about whether or not this is a proper use of that | 18:19 |
| shohel | i will do quick check on this within my limit | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | tmcpeak go ahead | 18:20 |
| tmcpeak | ok, so I've been working on the Glance security audit | 18:20 |
| bknudson | cipher = AES | 18:20 |
| tmcpeak | and making a list of where we are using crypto and how | 18:20 |
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| tmcpeak | I came across the usage of the following library: eventlet.green.ssl | 18:21 |
| tmcpeak | it looks like a pretty significant wrapper around normal SSL | 18:21 |
| tmcpeak | my question is how has this been vetted | 18:21 |
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| tmcpeak | do we have any degree of confidence on this implementation etc | 18:21 |
| tmcpeak | which got me thinking maybe we need some central page for all crypto related implementations | 18:22 |
| tmcpeak | where we can have links regarding any audit efforts, who has looked into them, etc | 18:22 |
| nkinder | tmcpeak: many people don't seem to trust the python SSL server-side implementations, so they use terminators | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | so I feel like step one is just to identify where crypto is being used, what libs, etc | 18:22 |
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| bdpayne | but answering these questions is important | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | I just view it as step 2 | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | if that makes sense | 18:22 |
| dg_ | tmcpeak the AES should be verifiable with the test vectors, the supporting functions are as crucial thou | 18:22 |
| tmcpeak | bdpayne: yeah totally | 18:22 |
| tmcpeak | dg_: I'm not sure test vectors covers it | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | but putting up such a page could be interesting... I'm just worried about sourcing the information properly | 18:23 |
| tmcpeak | what about some simple bug like Heartbleed | 18:23 |
| tmcpeak | who are the guys who wrote this ssl wrapper | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | "simple" | 18:23 |
| tmcpeak | and do we have any reason to think that they were careful enough to avoid these kind of problems | 18:23 |
| mxin | it is not easy to get encryption correct. | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | all fair questions | 18:24 |
| dg_ | tmcpeak heh yes, like i said, the crypt is verifiable, but the supporting functions are cruicial | 18:24 |
| tmcpeak | at least if we have a list of who has looked into them and in what depth, maybe we can start to build a knowledge base | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | I don't have any answers for you off the top of my head though | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | yeah, perhaps this could start as an etherpad? | 18:24 |
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| bdpayne | slightliy less official than a wiki | 18:24 |
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| bdpayne | more of a data collection effort | 18:24 |
| tmcpeak | yeah, I think etherpad would be a great place to start building some knowledge | 18:24 |
| tmcpeak | bdpayne: yeah exactly, even just some related links for each lib | 18:24 |
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| dg_ | bdpayne I think Rob has been working on identifying what crypt is in use where, and today mentioned https://github.com/pyca/cryptography as getting a lot of interest from barbican | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | so nkinder has been working on the crypto audit | 18:25 |
| mxin | sound likes a good starting point. | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | I do like python cryptography too, a very interesting project | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | And a good team working on it | 18:26 |
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| tmcpeak | oh, I wasn't aware of this | 18:26 |
| tmcpeak | this looks pretty cool | 18:26 |
| sriramhere | will this go with the security anti-pattern tests that were talked about last week via eamil thread? | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | Personally, I'd love to see about migrating all of openstack to using a single python cryptography library... perhaps this one | 18:26 |
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| nkinder | bdpayne: +1 | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | sriramhere I'm not sure I follow | 18:26 |
| dg_ | it would be nice to have a single library that we had some confidence in, I particuarly dislike how most SSL stuff is handled in python | 18:27 |
| tmcpeak | sriramhere: good question | 18:27 |
| sriramhere | there was an email thread last week | 18:27 |
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| sriramhere | Malini started page on security ani-patterns | 18:27 |
| sriramhere | and some jumped on that, trying to write some tests to find such patterns | 18:27 |
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| bdpayne | I'm not sure that the information we are talking about collecting on the crypto libs is really something that fits in with the security anti-patterns | 18:28 |
| sriramhere | my thought was, such tests could test for theses questions being raised here | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | this is why I'm confused here | 18:28 |
| tmcpeak | I'm not sure these are good or bad crypto implementations, we just don't have enough information to make informed decisions IMO | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | right | 18:28 |
| sriramhere | sorry, my ask is more of automated tests | 18:28 |
| sriramhere | than sec anti-patt | 18:28 |
| tmcpeak | they are probably two separate efforts at this point | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | tmcpeak you want to start an etherpad for this? | 18:28 |
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| tmcpeak | yep! | 18:28 |
| tmcpeak | TODO please :) | 18:28 |
| sriramhere | ok cool | 18:29 |
| malini1 | sriramhere: harder to test the goodness of a library as an anti-pattern | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | #action tmcpeak to start etherpad for collecting information about the status of various crypto libraries used in openstack (who has audited them, etc) | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | ok, any other discussion for today? | 18:29 |
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| paulmo | Sorry I'm late, one item from me if we have time | 18:29 |
| mxin | want to talk about api testing? | 18:30 |
| sriramhere | just a quick update; GSOC project on fuzzing fw coming along wel | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | very briefly :-) | 18:30 |
| paulmo | What is the next step for getting OSSG approval for: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Guidelines/logging_guidelines | 18:30 |
| sriramhere | had some slow downs, but largely in track. | 18:30 |
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| bdpayne | paulmo I'd start an email thread on that | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | we don't have a formal process | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | but, some form of critical review / broad acceptance from the group would make sense to me | 18:30 |
| paulmo | Ok, will do; thanks! | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | sriramhere sounds good! | 18:31 |
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| bdpayne | ok, I think that's all we have time for today... thanks everyone! | 18:31 |
| sriramhere | thx | 18:31 |
| tmcpeak | good stuff, thanks! | 18:31 |
| mxin | bye | 18:31 |
| shohel | thx | 18:31 |
| CristianF | bye | 18:31 |
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| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:31 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 5 18:31:39 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-06-05-18.00.html | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-06-05-18.00.txt | 18:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-06-05-18.00.log.html | 18:31 |
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| mikal | Nova meeting time | 21:00 |
| mriedem | do it | 21:01 |
| mikal | le ping: mikal tjones cburgess jgrimm adrian_otto | 21:01 |
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| mikal | #startmeeting nova | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 5 21:01:27 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mikal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:01 |
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| dansmith | o/ | 21:01 |
| jgrimm | o/ | 21:01 |
| mriedem | o/ | 21:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 21:01 |
| mikal | So, who is around? | 21:01 |
| cyeoh | hi | 21:01 |
| n0ano | o/ | 21:01 |
| jogo | o/ | 21:01 |
| oomichi_ | hi | 21:01 |
| mikal | Cool! | 21:02 |
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| ewindisch | . | 21:02 |
| mikal | The agenda for today is at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova as always | 21:02 |
| adrian_otto | o/ | 21:02 |
| mikal | #topic Juno mid-cycle meetup | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| mikal | So while I slept last week, John asked people to fill in a survey for the mi cycle meetup | 21:02 |
| mikal | mid even | 21:02 |
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| mikal | The winning dates were the weekdays after OSCON | 21:03 |
| russellb | the weekend? | 21:03 |
| russellb | oh weekdays | 21:03 |
| mikal | So July 28 - 30 | 21:03 |
| mikal | russellb: no, Monday thru Wednesday | 21:03 |
| dansmith | so my cash bribes worked | 21:03 |
| russellb | great. | 21:03 |
| mikal | Heh | 21:03 |
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| mikal | Intel has now confirmed they can host on those dates, so I think we're good to announce | 21:03 |
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| mikal | I'll send an email to openstack-dev after this meeting | 21:03 |
| alaski | o/ | 21:04 |
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| mikal | I intend to try and arrange a block hotel booking, but that hasn't been done yet | 21:04 |
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| mikal | But at least this way people can start negotiating with their managers | 21:04 |
| jogo | where will it be portland? | 21:04 |
| mikal | Is there anything else we need to cover there apart from my promise of an email soon? | 21:04 |
| mikal | jogo: Beaverton, at the Intel campus | 21:04 |
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| n0ano | jogo, technically beaverton | 21:05 |
| mikal | jogo: which is a 20 minute drive from the airport IIRC | 21:05 |
| jogo | neato | 21:05 |
| russellb | main portland airport would be best i presume? | 21:05 |
| russellb | ah. | 21:05 |
| russellb | dansmith will give everyone a ride | 21:05 |
| dansmith | pfft | 21:05 |
| mikal | russellb: I think so, but I sahll confirm | 21:05 |
| dansmith | not even 20 minutes at midnight | 21:05 |
| n0ano | mikal, you drive fast :-)( | 21:05 |
| mikal | I think I was told there is a train as well, but that might be a lie | 21:05 |
| dansmith | n0ano: which campus? | 21:06 |
| n0ano | dansmith, jones farm is the current site | 21:06 |
| dansmith | okay | 21:06 |
| mikal | Oh, I see | 21:06 |
| mikal | I didn't realize there was more than one campus | 21:06 |
| mikal | I was looking at maps for Aloha | 21:06 |
| dansmith | there are lots of them | 21:07 |
| dansmith | all over the damned place | 21:07 |
| n0ano | there's about 5, maybe more | 21:07 |
| mikal | *shrug* | 21:07 |
| dansmith | five that we know about | 21:07 |
| mikal | We'll work it out | 21:07 |
| mikal | There are secret hidden campuses? | 21:07 |
| russellb | wiki-ify it | 21:07 |
| dansmith | it’s intel | 21:07 |
| russellb | with the deets | 21:07 |
| dansmith | everything is a secret | 21:07 |
| mikal | russellb: yep, that's the plan | 21:07 |
| dansmith | all the campuses have privacy berms in front | 21:07 |
| n0ano | they're all relatively close together (<10 min by care) | 21:07 |
| russellb | k | 21:07 |
| dansmith | “look not beyond yonder wall” | 21:07 |
| mikal | Heh | 21:08 |
| mikal | Ok, so, we're having the meetup in a lair | 21:08 |
| mikal | In other news... | 21:08 |
| mikal | Are we done with this topic for now? | 21:08 |
| russellb | will there be cake? | 21:08 |
| russellb | yes. | 21:08 |
| russellb | i mean yes, i'm done. | 21:08 |
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| mikal | #action mikal to wiki page up the mid cycle details | 21:08 |
| mikal | #topic Gate breakage | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate breakage (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:09 | |
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| mikal | This one isn't on the agenda because its new | 21:09 |
| mikal | I've woken up to emails saying everything is busted | 21:09 |
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| mriedem | one of the breakers was force merged | 21:09 |
| mriedem | the resize one | 21:09 |
| mikal | Does someone have more details on if there's things nova needs to do to fix the world? | 21:09 |
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| mriedem | there was a get-pip one that sdague fixed yesterday | 21:09 |
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| mriedem | sounds like things are still backed up, not sure if nova is the main issue now | 21:10 |
| mikal | Ok, but we should hold off on approving things, right? | 21:10 |
| mriedem | neutron has the ssh issue everyone knows and loves as #1 | 21:10 |
| mriedem | i think that's what they were asking, unless they fix race bugs | 21:10 |
| mikal | Ok | 21:10 |
| mikal | But we're not aware of any more nova bugs that need looking at? | 21:10 |
| jogo | look at http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/ | 21:10 |
| mriedem | well let's see | 21:10 |
| mriedem | yteah | 21:10 |
| mriedem | that | 21:11 |
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| jogo | Bug 1254890 - "Timed out waiting for thing ... to become ACTIVE" causes tempest-dsvm-* failures | 21:11 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1254890 in nova ""Timed out waiting for thing ... to become ACTIVE" causes tempest-dsvm-* failures" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1254890 | 21:11 |
| jogo | that looks like the biggest nova one | 21:11 |
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| mriedem | which has been around forever | 21:11 |
| mikal | jogo: that's probably not a nova bug though right? | 21:11 |
| jogo | yup | 21:11 |
| mriedem | sure | 21:11 |
| russellb | it may be | 21:11 |
| mikal | jogo: that's nova waiting on other services? | 21:11 |
| mriedem | compute api tests can timeout all over | 21:11 |
| russellb | that bug tends ot catch a number of underlying bugs | 21:11 |
| mriedem | not necessarily | 21:11 |
| leifz | o/ late to the meeting. | 21:12 |
| russellb | need to dig into specific failures | 21:12 |
| mriedem | e.g. timeout waiting for snapshot | 21:12 |
| mriedem | something like that | 21:12 |
| mriedem | qemu-img taking too long | 21:12 |
| jogo | yeah, so its not uncommon as we dig into bugs to find they are 5 or 6 bugs | 21:12 |
| jogo | in which case we can split the bug up and add seperate e-r queries etc | 21:12 |
| russellb | that one in particular ... a bunch has come out of that in the past, it's been on there a long time | 21:12 |
| mikal | jogo: do you split them out into separate bugs at that point? | 21:12 |
| mikal | Cool | 21:12 |
| mriedem | we want this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97812/ | 21:12 |
| mriedem | i think we need to help get better diags when things fail to help with a lot of these timeouts | 21:13 |
| jogo | mikal: yeah. we just say this bug covered several underyling issues ... | 21:13 |
| mikal | Ok | 21:13 |
| mriedem | there are probably several different similar timeout bugs | 21:13 |
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| mikal | But I'm not seeing a specifical call to action here for nova, is that fair? | 21:13 |
| mikal | ? | 21:13 |
| mriedem | not sure if there are some that hit more than others, we haven't dug into that | 21:13 |
| anteaya | except please don't approve stuff | 21:13 |
| jogo | also getting rid of stacktraces in the logs really helps with these things | 21:13 |
| mikal | Yeah, except that | 21:13 |
| jogo | we still ahve a lot | 21:14 |
| mikal | jogo: is there a list of bogus stacktraces in logs somewhere? | 21:14 |
| mikal | jogo: how would someone wanting to help with that proceed? | 21:14 |
| mriedem | there is a whitelist dump at the end of the runs | 21:14 |
| mriedem | of all the errors that aren't whitelisted from the logs | 21:14 |
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| jogo | mikal: what mriedem said | 21:14 |
| mriedem | used to gate on that but couldn't keep up | 21:14 |
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| mriedem | i think the only thing we gate on is no errors in n-cond | 21:15 |
| dansmith | right, afaik | 21:15 |
| mriedem | and alaski has a fix up for one of those | 21:15 |
| mriedem | would be this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96955/ | 21:15 |
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| mikal | #action We need to help remove bogus stack traces from our tempest logs | 21:15 |
| mriedem | i thought, maybe that's not the one | 21:15 |
| alaski | mriedem: 97942 maybe? | 21:16 |
| mriedem | there was a bogus info cache one | 21:16 |
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| mriedem | alaski: doesn't look right | 21:16 |
| mikal | That second one is approved | 21:16 |
| mriedem | i think there is a specofic bug | 21:16 |
| alaski | mriedem: oh, the one you're thinking of merged | 21:16 |
| alaski | mriedem: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96824/ | 21:16 |
| mriedem | that's the one | 21:17 |
| jogo | mikal: sample output http://logs.openstack.org/98/96998/1/check/check-tempest-dsvm-full/95f0c01/console.html#_2014-06-03_04_42_16_638 | 21:17 |
| jogo | from most recent nova patch that merged | 21:17 |
| mriedem | yeah | 21:17 |
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| mriedem | there was a sec group list race bug too that was merged yesterday | 21:17 |
| mriedem | fix merged i mean | 21:17 |
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| jogo | mriedem: correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of the instability this time isn't from nova | 21:18 |
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| mriedem | besides the resize thing reverted this morning, i think that's correct | 21:18 |
| russellb | mostly neutron looks like ... | 21:18 |
| mikal | Cool | 21:18 |
| mriedem | lots of infra issues | 21:18 |
| mriedem | and neutron yeah | 21:18 |
| mikal | I didn't mean to imply it was | 21:18 |
| mikal | Just making sure we're pulling in the right direction | 21:18 |
| russellb | i'm sure those teams wouldn't mind help on those issues though :) | 21:18 |
| mriedem | ceilometer UT is shitting the bed also | 21:18 |
| mikal | It sounds like we're off the hook mostly | 21:18 |
| mriedem | they copied our test timeouts and started timing out :) | 21:18 |
| mikal | Is there anything else here or should we move on? | 21:19 |
| mriedem | move on | 21:19 |
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| mikal | #topic juno-1 | 21:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "juno-1 (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:19 | |
| mikal | Over the last week johnthetubaguy has been pushing things from juno-1 to juno-2 that look like they wont land in time | 21:19 |
| mikal | juno-1 being 12 June, which is real soon now | 21:19 |
| mikal | We should not be approving specs at the moment, but instead should be trying to review bps targetted to juno-1 (and bug fixes, more on that later) | 21:20 |
| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/juno-1 | 21:20 |
| mikal | Obviously the gate thing will slow us down there | 21:20 |
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| mikal | So this is mostly a reminder that juno-1 is just around the corner | 21:21 |
| mikal | johnthetubaguy: you around? | 21:21 |
| mikal | (I suspect not) | 21:21 |
| mikal | Moving on | 21:21 |
| mikal | #topic Bugs | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:22 | |
| mriedem | i suspect compute-manager-objects-juno will be a moving target | 21:22 |
| mikal | mriedem: yeah, that seems likely to me too | 21:22 |
| dansmith | yeah, not much point in that being anything other than j3 I think | 21:22 |
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| mriedem | bugs! | 21:22 |
| mikal | Ok, I changed that one | 21:23 |
| mikal | Bugs | 21:23 |
| mriedem | any bug day analysis? | 21:23 |
| mikal | tjones ran a bug day the other day | 21:23 |
| tjones | we had about 8ish bugs merged yesterday | 21:23 |
| mikal | The early analysis is "it sucked" | 21:23 |
| mikal | Well, that's my analysis at least | 21:23 |
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| tjones | people are continuing to fix and review bugs today as well | 21:23 |
| mikal | Ok cool | 21:23 |
| mikal | I think tjones did a good job | 21:23 |
| tjones | my 1st bug day so not sure what to expect | 21:23 |
| mikal | We just didn't fix enough | 21:23 |
| mikal | Given that we have 1,200 bugs | 21:23 |
| mriedem | closing invalid bugs == fixing | 21:23 |
| mriedem | imo | 21:23 |
| tjones | true | 21:24 |
| mikal | mriedem: agreed | 21:24 |
| mriedem | there was quite a bit of that yesterday | 21:24 |
| mikal | 1,200 is so many we just don't know what's there | 21:24 |
| cyeoh | a bunch set to "need more info" too | 21:24 |
| jogo | why wasn't the bug day stuff done in the nova room? | 21:24 |
| tjones | open bug counts went down about 30ish | 21:24 |
| mikal | #link http://status.openstack.org/bugday/ | 21:24 |
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| mriedem | jogo: it was... | 21:24 |
| dansmith | jogo: i was in there chasing bugs | 21:24 |
| jogo | mriedem: ohh I thought there as an email saying it wasn't, ignore me | 21:24 |
| mriedem | i was going through a lot of abandoned things | 21:24 |
| tjones | as mriedem said yesterday - hard to see the granularity of this chart | 21:24 |
| mikal | The bit that worries me is that it feels to me like we're ignoring our users. They try to get our attention and we don't keep up. | 21:25 |
| mikal | I don't know how to fix that, except for asking people to be consistent about trying to close bugs | 21:25 |
| mikal | That's really a huge list to try and burn down | 21:25 |
| mikal | I'm 100% sure there's dupes etc in there, but I don't know how we find them when the list is so long | 21:25 |
| mriedem | one by one | 21:26 |
| jogo | have we closed bugs older then a year? | 21:26 |
| jogo | to get us down to a sane list etc? | 21:26 |
| mikal | jogo: no we haven't | 21:26 |
| mriedem | jogo: the bug day email has a link to in progress bugs but a lot of those are old and abandoned patches | 21:26 |
| leifz | We probably want to query opener for 6 months with no activity as well. | 21:26 |
| mikal | jogo: I think we'd want to discuss that on the mailing list before doing it | 21:26 |
| devananda | jogo: does that necessarily mean they are not valid any longer? | 21:26 |
| mriedem | jogo: i went through a lot of those one by one and closed as invalid, incomplete or dupes | 21:26 |
| mriedem | or moved back to triaged and removed assignee | 21:26 |
| devananda | i'm sure there are bugs >1yr old for nova-bm which are still valid, for example | 21:26 |
| mriedem | yes | 21:27 |
| mriedem | which brings up a point i raised yesterday about nova-bm bugs | 21:27 |
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| mriedem | there were 40+ | 21:27 |
| leifz | I did find one which had been fixed and never duplicated to closed issue. | 21:27 |
| mriedem | i'm not sure those baremetal bugs are tagged for ironic | 21:27 |
| jogo | not as a blanket rule but as a guideline | 21:27 |
| mriedem | but they should be | 21:27 |
| devananda | mriedem: ++ | 21:27 |
| tjones | also our bug management tools need help badly. currently i get all bugs and stick them in excel to see what is going on | 21:27 |
| devananda | mriedem: some of them i may have untagged specifically (but there'd be a coment trail) | 21:27 |
| devananda | mriedem: because they didn't apply | 21:27 |
| mikal | I don't expect we can solve this today | 21:28 |
| mikal | But I would like people to ponder it | 21:28 |
| tjones | wish we used bugzilla | 21:28 |
| mikal | tjones: the foundation is writing a new thing, but its not ready | 21:28 |
| mriedem | how often do we do bug days? | 21:28 |
| leifz | When is the next bug day? | 21:28 |
| russellb | tjones: i'm not sure i've ever heard someone say that | 21:28 |
| mikal | mriedem: in general, once per release | 21:28 |
| mriedem | mikal: we should do them more often then | 21:28 |
| devananda | food for thought -- is there a way to make it easier for users to submit drive-by bug fixes (and for those to get accepted/merged) | 21:28 |
| mriedem | once a month | 21:28 |
| tjones | it would be better than what we have | 21:28 |
| anteaya | tjones: pleia2 does our bugdays, do you want to chat with her about tools? | 21:28 |
| mikal | Last time we tried to do a second no one showed up | 21:28 |
| devananda | that might apply more systemically, not just to nova | 21:28 |
| mriedem | no one showed up yesterday | 21:28 |
| mriedem | imo | 21:28 |
| tjones | sure thanks anteaya | 21:28 |
| anteaya | np | 21:29 |
| mriedem | no one == very few compared to the number of people in the room | 21:29 |
| mikal | mriedem: that's kind of how I feel. I know its unfair on the people who did, but not enough people showed up. | 21:29 |
| mikal | Do we think people would get bored if we did something monthly? | 21:29 |
| russellb | i think counting on a a catch-up bug day is always going to fail long term | 21:29 |
| russellb | and i think a regular bug team (what tjones has been trying to do) is the best bet | 21:29 |
| mikal | russellb: I agree, but I also think that every dev has to help out | 21:30 |
| tjones | no one is showing up to the bug meetings as well. i use that time to triage bugs | 21:30 |
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| russellb | mikal: right, and tjones has been trying to keep the work organized and broken up for devs to pitch in | 21:30 |
| russellb | using the tagging, and a coordinated time for people to meet and triage | 21:30 |
| mikal | I personally feel that some of this is because stackalytics doesn't track bug fixes, so people aren't competing based on them | 21:30 |
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| devananda | i doubt we can get any real numbers, but the sense i have is that companies are fixing bugs internally as they hack things into product/ion, and the benefit of that isn't often flowing upstream | 21:30 |
| russellb | that and honestly, the bugs i care about most are ones that come from my customers | 21:30 |
| mikal | I've filed a bug against stackalytics to ask for that to change | 21:31 |
| russellb | i'm sure other people work that way too | 21:31 |
| russellb | it's just how it ends up happening' | 21:31 |
| jogo | so this isn't a good solution, but at the very least we should just discuss this issue more | 21:31 |
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| jogo | to at least raise awareness | 21:31 |
| mikal | Yeah, I think this will be on the agenda for the mid cycle | 21:31 |
| mikal | I can't see it being fully solved by then | 21:31 |
| leifz | tjones: you keep of list of bugs which have proposed fixes in play? | 21:31 |
| mikal | I feel a bit like many of the bugs with fixes out there are for bugs which were just filed | 21:32 |
| pleia2 | our procedure for infra is pretty simple, I just have a launchpad lib script that pulls a list that we drop into an etherpad and go to town https://github.com/pleia2/openstack-infra-scripts/blob/master/infra_bugday.py | 21:32 |
| mikal | i.e. dev files bug to track work, fixes it | 21:32 |
| tjones | i have a list of bugs, their age, and when last updated | 21:32 |
| mikal | I don't have data on that though, perhaps its unfair | 21:32 |
| devananda | also having tools to keep track of stale bugs (assigned but not working on, patch proposed and then bit rotted) | 21:32 |
| pleia2 | lplib could be better documented, but you can grab a fair amount from the api | 21:32 |
| devananda | might help | 21:32 |
| tjones | pleia2: that is what i use - grab everything and stick in excel for analysis | 21:33 |
| mikal | So what I did for bug day is trolled around looking for an interesting bug, then search for similar ones. I think I found six related bugs to work on. I fixed three. | 21:33 |
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| mikal | So that is a technique which might work for other people as well | 21:33 |
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| mriedem | automatically marking a bug as no longer in progress if the patch was abandoned over 6 months ago might help | 21:34 |
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| mriedem | that's come up before | 21:34 |
| mikal | mriedem: I think shorter than that | 21:34 |
| mriedem | sure | 21:34 |
| mikal | abandoned for more than a couple of weeks | 21:34 |
| mriedem | but automating it | 21:34 |
| mriedem | we probably have hundreds of those | 21:34 |
| cyeoh | yep, it really needs to be automated | 21:35 |
| tjones | what do you mark it as?? | 21:35 |
| mriedem | depends | 21:35 |
| mriedem | usually triaged | 21:35 |
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| mriedem | but depends on why it was abandoned | 21:35 |
| mikal | tjones: how often do you ask people for more info on new bugs? What release they're running, stuff like that? | 21:35 |
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| mriedem | yeah sometimes i mark those as incomplete | 21:35 |
| tjones | when i triage, if it is not clear to me i ask for more info and mark incomplete | 21:35 |
| mikal | tjones: I think we're just talking about removing the assignee and reverting from "In progress" to "Confirmed" | 21:35 |
| mriedem | something like that | 21:36 |
| mikal | Would automating asking for more info help? | 21:36 |
| mikal | Like sending a survey to everyone who files a new bug? | 21:36 |
| tjones | by "triage" i mean tagging untagged bugs. I am not reading each new bug. if they come in tagged i leave them | 21:36 |
| mikal | That might annoy our frequent bug filers | 21:36 |
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| mikal | We could also auto-close bugs which have been incomplete for more than six months | 21:37 |
| cyeoh | do we have a wiki page on what info is very useful for a bug report to contain? Because lots of the API ones I see a very vague | 21:37 |
| devananda | mriedem: ++ to an aotmated tool for that. would help several projects, i bet | 21:37 |
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| cyeoh | and I end up setting a lot to incomplete because there simply isn't enough info to replicate the issue | 21:37 |
| mikal | cyeoh: I can't think of one off the top of my head | 21:37 |
| devananda | cyeoh: do you require a bug report to have enough info to reproduce it? | 21:38 |
| mriedem | if there was one, i'd think we'd find the template here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Bugs | 21:38 |
| mriedem | or linked from there | 21:38 |
| cyeoh | devananda: well often its info I know they have, they just probably didn't think to include it but would have if they'd known it would be useful | 21:38 |
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| cyeoh | devananda: even if its just simple things like they were running against master, or icehouse or havana etc. | 21:39 |
| mriedem | which release, which commit, basic setup/topology, steps, stacktrace | 21:39 |
| mikal | #action Everyone to think about how to improve our bug state, there are some ideas for automation if people want a coding task | 21:39 |
| mikal | cyeoh: I think making a wiki page is a good idea, can you have a go at it please? | 21:39 |
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| cyeoh | mikal: sure | 21:40 |
| mikal | cyeoh: thanks | 21:40 |
| mikal | This is really important to me, but I feel we need to move on | 21:40 |
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| mikal | #topic Sub team reports | 21:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Sub team reports (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:40 | |
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| adrian_otto | o/ | 21:40 |
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| mikal | So what sub teams do we have hanging around? | 21:40 |
| mikal | adrian_otto: you have a containers report? | 21:41 |
| * n0ano gantt | 21:41 | |
| adrian_otto | Containers | 21:41 |
| adrian_otto | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/containers/2014/containers.2014-06-03-22.00.html Containers Sub-Team Meeting Minutes | 21:41 |
| adrian_otto | Top takeaway is determining how cinder support can be added and what DefCore requirements should be relaxed (if any). | 21:41 |
| cyeoh | o/ | 21:41 |
| * devananda wonders if he qualifies as a subteam :) | 21:41 | |
| adrian_otto | next discussion will be about how to support operating specific needs | 21:41 |
| mikal | adrian_otto: I assume that's something you guys are progressing... Do you need anything from nova itself? | 21:41 |
| mikal | adrian_otto: or is it all in progress? | 21:42 |
| adrian_otto | next meeting is 1600 UTC Tuesday. I will be at a conference and need a backup chair to start the meeting if I am unable to get online. | 21:42 |
| adrian_otto | we will will follow up with those two topics on ML, requesting input | 21:42 |
| adrian_otto | so please keep an eye out. | 21:42 |
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| mikal | Cool | 21:42 |
| adrian_otto | /end | 21:42 |
| mikal | n0ano: gantt report? | 21:42 |
| adrian_otto | please let me know if you can back me up as chair (anyone) | 21:42 |
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| n0ano | sure, forklift effort still on-going, cleaning up the interfaces is the main job right now | 21:43 |
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| mikal | n0ano: what about the refactor bp that was originally in juno-1? | 21:43 |
| mikal | n0ano: is that a gantt thing or being done by different people? | 21:43 |
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| n0ano | which refactor bp are you referring to, that's probably the same as what we are calling forlift these days | 21:44 |
| mikal | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/scheduler-lib | 21:44 |
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| mikal | Ahhh, I see | 21:44 |
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| n0ano | yeah, that's the one we're working on | 21:44 |
| mikal | Ok, cool | 21:44 |
| mikal | n0ano: anything else you need to raise or should we move on? | 21:45 |
| n0ano | we seem to have scared the guy working on the no-db work, he's abandoned the BP for it | 21:45 |
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| mikal | n0ano: you mean boris-42? | 21:45 |
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| n0ano | actually yoriksar took over from boris-42 but it's the same work | 21:45 |
| devananda | boris-42 was also on vacation for a few weeks post summit | 21:45 |
| mikal | Ok | 21:45 |
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| devananda | i dont have the sense he's abandoning that effort, last time we talked | 21:45 |
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| mikal | He was around yesterday, but I suspect is very busy | 21:46 |
| devananda | though i hope he's rethinking it :) | 21:46 |
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| n0ano | devananda, that was the message from the BP but I agree, I don't want to give up entirely | 21:46 |
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| mikal | We should move on, given the time | 21:46 |
| n0ano | OK, that's the big things | 21:46 |
| mikal | devananda: how is the ironic nova drive going? | 21:47 |
| mikal | driver even | 21:47 |
| devananda | mikal: aside from broken for ~36 hours, i need to get back to the specs | 21:48 |
| devananda | mikal: they haen't gotten a lot of feedback | 21:48 |
| devananda | mikal: shrews is spinning up some unit tests that will watch the internal APIs we're depending on | 21:49 |
| mikal | devananda: fair point | 21:49 |
| devananda | so that should avoid the kind of gate breakage we got two days ago | 21:49 |
| mikal | #action nova-drivers please take a look at the ironic driver specs | 21:49 |
| devananda | but as far as the driver itself, i'm not sure how best to proceed -- we need eyes on the specs | 21:49 |
| mikal | Yep, let's see if we can improve that over the next week | 21:49 |
| devananda | i'm not going to put the time into splicing up the driver itself until those are at least looking close to approved | 21:49 |
| devananda | thanks :) | 21:49 |
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| mikal | Any other sub teams I missed? | 21:50 |
| ewindisch | docker. | 21:50 |
| tjones | vmwareapi | 21:50 |
| cyeoh | nova api | 21:50 |
| mikal | Oh, I suck | 21:50 |
| mikal | ewindisch: go! | 21:50 |
| tjones | LOL | 21:50 |
| ewindisch | we have pause/unpause merged and we have patch to be merged for soft-deletes | 21:50 |
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| devananda | mikal: fwiw, here are the links for ironic specs: https://review.openstack.org/95024 and https://review.openstack.org/95025 | 21:51 |
| ewindisch | I have an AI to speak more with mikal and mark about our glance integration… so we can fix snapshots | 21:51 |
| mikal | ewindisch: I assume you're part of this cinder conversation with adrian_otto ? | 21:51 |
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| ewindisch | mikal: yes. | 21:51 |
| mikal | Cool | 21:51 |
| mikal | Perhaps a mail thread about glance is the way to go. It might be easier than getting us all paying attention at the same time | 21:52 |
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| mikal | Going quickly because of time... | 21:52 |
| mikal | tjones: go! | 21:52 |
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| tjones | ok very quick - last phase 1 refactor patch is up for review, has a +2 from mriedem. https://review.openstack.org/92691 phase 2 will be posted later on today. | 21:52 |
| tjones | done | 21:52 |
| mikal | Excellent! | 21:53 |
| mikal | cyeoh: go! | 21:53 |
| mriedem | s/has/had/ | 21:53 |
| mriedem | rebase | 21:53 |
| cyeoh | ok, so just mostly wanting more eyes on spec reviews - we're a bit blocked on doing anything at all until we get some approved | 21:53 |
| cyeoh | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84695/ - is the v2.1 on v3 api one | 21:53 |
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| cyeoh | the microversion would could do with more eyes as well - even if its just people saying they don't care which route we take (we just need to choose one!) | 21:54 |
| cyeoh | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96139/1/specs/juno/api-microversions.rst | 21:54 |
| dansmith | can we be sure to talk about the microversion stuff at the meetup? | 21:54 |
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| mikal | Ok, so that's another thing we can try and look at over the next week then | 21:54 |
| mikal | dansmith: yes, but we might not get everyone there | 21:54 |
| dansmith | because I think we decided we’d punt on how that works, | 21:54 |
| dansmith | but we need to do that | 21:54 |
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| mikal | dansmith: we can do a hangout if needed | 21:54 |
| cyeoh | having policy implemented in the REST API I think is a lot less controversial: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92005/ | 21:54 |
| mikal | #action Specs for ironic and nova api need review | 21:55 |
| cyeoh | yea unfortunately I won't be able to make the midcycle but happy to attend remotely | 21:55 |
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| mikal | #action Discuss microversions at the mid cycle | 21:55 |
| mikal | cyeoh: yeah, we can work something out | 21:55 |
| cyeoh | we can proceed with v2.1 on v3 quite a way without microversions bedded down | 21:55 |
| dansmith | we were able to get alaski in last time | 21:55 |
| dansmith | which worked okay I think | 21:55 |
| russellb | we had a hangout last time, but it was unplanned and just with a cheap tablet | 21:55 |
| alaski | it worked pretty well | 21:55 |
| russellb | we could probably plan ahead and have a nicer setup | 21:55 |
| mikal | I think its actually easier than at the summit | 21:55 |
| mikal | And we did ok there | 21:56 |
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| mikal | Agreed we can make it a bit fancier though | 21:56 |
| russellb | alaski: we heard you *really* well | 21:56 |
| dansmith | yeah, kindof amazing | 21:56 |
| russellb | better than people in the room | 21:56 |
| russellb | it was epic | 21:56 |
| mikal | #action Determine the AV facilities at intel and how that works for hangouts | 21:56 |
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| alaski | heh | 21:56 |
| mikal | Ok, moving on though | 21:56 |
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| mikal | #topic Open Discussion | 21:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:56 | |
| mikal | Enjoy your three minutes of open discussion | 21:57 |
| alaski | I want to bring up https://review.openstack.org/#/c/64769/ with everyone | 21:57 |
| alaski | ports are apparently being leaked at times, causing issues for some CI systems | 21:57 |
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| alaski | I'm not a big fan of this solution, but something needs to be done I think | 21:57 |
| dansmith | yeah, this sucks | 21:58 |
| dansmith | not this patch, | 21:58 |
| anteaya | the bug was filed by one of the hp cloud ops | 21:58 |
| anteaya | who is trying to help us fix testing on hp cloud | 21:58 |
| russellb | :/ | 21:58 |
| dansmith | the problem of trying to maintain this synchronized state | 21:58 |
| alaski | it's not clear who owns the ports in this situation | 21:58 |
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| alaski | so cleanup is a mess | 21:58 |
| anteaya | do we need more data on the bug report? | 21:58 |
| dansmith | s/mess/disaster/ | 21:58 |
| russellb | can't wait until we kill nova auto creating ports | 21:59 |
| dansmith | I really think we shoud just do it | 21:59 |
| alaski | anteaya: the bug report is pretty comprehensive as i recall | 21:59 |
| anteaya | kk | 21:59 |
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| jogo | if this is coming from hp cloud ops then I think we should consider it high priority | 22:00 |
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| jogo | the new hp 1.1 cloud (running trunk) is a big part of why things got bad in the gate | 22:00 |
| anteaya | that is where it is coming from, yes | 22:00 |
| mikal | So, we should all promise to review that change? | 22:00 |
| alaski | that would help | 22:00 |
| mikal | Ok | 22:01 |
| alaski | nova not creating ports is the long term solution, but we could use a stopgap | 22:01 |
| anteaya | essentially we aren't able to run much on hp cloud right now | 22:01 |
| tjones | alaski: ddn't you propose a patch that would help this situation on friday? | 22:01 |
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| jogo | alaski: ++ | 22:01 |
| mikal | That's us out of time unfortunately | 22:01 |
| alaski | tjones: I did. it's getting reviews, but just failed jenkins it looks like | 22:01 |
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| tjones | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96955/ | 22:02 |
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| mikal | Ok, we better end given we're over | 22:03 |
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| mikal | Thanks everyone for coming | 22:03 |
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| mikal | Please keep talking in openstack-nova if there's more to discuss | 22:03 |
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| mikal | #endmeeting | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 5 22:03:36 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-06-05-21.01.html | 22:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-06-05-21.01.txt | 22:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-06-05-21.01.log.html | 22:03 |
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| dpaterson | Tempest meeting tonight? | 22:10 |
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