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| HenryG | Hi jlibosva salv-orlando | 12:59 |
|---|---|---|
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| salv-orlando | aloha | 12:59 |
| jlibosva | hello | 12:59 |
| HenryG | Do you have anything to discuss for neutron_db? I think Ann is still on vacation. | 13:00 |
| jlibosva | just https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112928/1 | 13:00 |
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| HenryG | #startmeeting neutron_db | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 11 13:00:34 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is HenryG. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_db' | 13:00 |
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| HenryG | #topic Import All Models | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Import All Models (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:01 | |
| jlibosva | As we agreed last meeting, I sent an email upstream about strategy for obtaining all models and got 0 responses. :) | 13:01 |
| HenryG | jlibosva: I think that means it is good :) | 13:02 |
| jlibosva | so I pushed the approach we agreed on last meeting: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112928/ | 13:02 |
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| jlibosva | I think I had an error in my benchmark about time consumption. But still it's reasonable | 13:02 |
| salv-orlando | jlibosva: honestly, I did not see it. Just found it in my spam. | 13:02 |
| salv-orlando | probably that happened to other people as well? | 13:02 |
| jlibosva | that would explain why all my emails are not getting attention. I thought that people just don't like me | 13:03 |
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| jlibosva | anyway, any review on that patch is appreciated | 13:04 |
| salv-orlando | jlibosva: idk, but since we work in the same time zone, I should be the first to catch them, so it’s probably my fault as werll | 13:04 |
| salv-orlando | anyway, for your patch it all boils down to gauge opinions on pkgutil.walk_packages | 13:04 |
| salv-orlando | whether it’s deemed safe, or black magic or whatever | 13:05 |
| salv-orlando | apart from that, it’s an easy one. | 13:05 |
| HenryG | I tried it and my opinion is it works just fine. | 13:05 |
| salv-orlando | If I can get a few other cores away from this group policy turmoil we’ll try and sort that quickly | 13:05 |
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| jlibosva | thanks | 13:06 |
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| HenryG | #topic Open Discussion | 13:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:08 | |
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| HenryG | salv-orlando: Did you get to talk to Mark about https://review.openstack.org/109952 ? | 13:09 |
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| salv-orlando | HenryG: we promised each other to talk about it today. | 13:09 |
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| HenryG | salv-orlando: Thanks! | 13:09 |
| salv-orlando | Because the last days of the previous week have been a bit hectic, | 13:09 |
| salv-orlando | so we should get sorted that today. | 13:09 |
| salv-orlando | Then I’ve also a few patches up for review. | 13:10 |
| salv-orlando | One is big - but not difficult. | 13:10 |
| salv-orlando | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112732/ | 13:10 |
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| salv-orlando | For this patch, I need to do a trick, which is pushing a dummy patch stacked on top of patch #40296. In this way we will test automatically that the new initial state works fine for all the plugins with a CI. | 13:11 |
| salv-orlando | (the ones with a working CI, obviously) | 13:11 |
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| HenryG | Sounds good | 13:11 |
| HenryG | And talking about #40296 ... | 13:12 |
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| HenryG | I would be very happy to see it merge :) | 13:12 |
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| HenryG | Anything else to discuss? | 13:14 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG: I’ll put it on my review queue for today… but I told you we’ll merge it on aug 19th to mark a year since it was ready for review for the 1st time! | 13:14 |
| HenryG | I couldn't tell if you were serious. :) | 13:15 |
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| HenryG | Thanks jlibosva and salv-orlando. | 13:18 |
| HenryG | #endmeeting | 13:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:18 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 11 13:18:28 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:18 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-08-11-13.00.html | 13:18 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-08-11-13.00.txt | 13:18 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-08-11-13.00.log.html | 13:18 |
| jlibosva | thank you too :) bye | 13:18 |
| salv-orlando | adieeeuuu | 13:19 |
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| krotscheck | StoryBoard meeting in #openstack-meeting | 14:59 |
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| krotscheck | oops | 14:59 |
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| krotscheck | #startmeeting StoryBoard | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 11 15:00:08 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 15:00 |
| krotscheck | Agenda! https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard#Agenda | 15:00 |
| ttx | ohai | 15:00 |
| krotscheck | ttx can haz cheezburger | 15:01 |
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| krotscheck | #topic Urgent Items (Rabbit) | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Urgent Items (Rabbit) (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:01 | |
| * ttx wonders why the recent review approvals did not trigger a merge avalanche yet | 15:01 | |
| NikitaKonovalov | o/ | 15:01 |
| krotscheck | ttx: zuul is borked | 15:01 |
| * ttx queries gerrit for info | 15:01 | |
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| ttx | krotscheck: ah! | 15:01 |
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| krotscheck | So, the initial puppet patch landed on friday, but it brought up the “Why are our config files getting confused” issue again. | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | That resulted in this patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113013/ | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | Which precedes this one (the actual one with rabbit in it) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98474/ | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | And, for fun and profit, there’s also this one, but it’s less urgent: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112998/ | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | Either way, getting clarkb/mordred/jeblair/other infra people to look at it this week would be neat. | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion Topics (Subscription) | 15:04 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion Topics (Subscription) (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:04 | |
| krotscheck | The question here is oslo.messaging vs. pika | 15:04 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I just wanted to know advantages of using Pika instaead of oslo | 15:04 |
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| krotscheck | Well, pika is the one used in most of the rabbit tutorials, while oslo.messaging is the one that openstack built for itself. | 15:05 |
| ttx | isn't oslo.messaging using pika as backend? | 15:05 |
| krotscheck | ttx, I believe it is. | 15:05 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: There’s an abstraction layer there though that also allows other backends to get plugged in. | 15:05 |
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| ttx | right, like qpid | 15:06 |
| krotscheck | Right | 15:06 |
| krotscheck | So, there isn’t so much an _advantage_ of using pika, as there is a disadvantage to using oslo.messaging | 15:06 |
| krotscheck | Ish__ discovered as she was working on it, that creating a new notifier created both an exchange _and_ a queue. | 15:07 |
| krotscheck | A persistent queue. | 15:07 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | what's wrong with that? | 15:07 |
| krotscheck | Which, if you’re really only looking for a single consumption queue and you care about data retention makes some sense. | 15:07 |
| krotscheck | Well, let’s walk through what would happen. | 15:08 |
| krotscheck | I want to broadcast a message with topic project, and one with project_group | 15:08 |
| krotscheck | So I have to create two notifiers, because topics are locked by notifiers. | 15:08 |
| krotscheck | Sorry - I mean that a topic is passed to a notifier at creation. | 15:08 |
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| krotscheck | So then the notifier creates one exchange, and two queues, one for project_groups and one for projects. | 15:09 |
| krotscheck | Except my consumer wants to get _both_ | 15:09 |
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| krotscheck | My consumer then attaches itself and… does what? Consumes from two different queues? Or creates a new queue with a binding of *. | 15:09 |
| ttx | krotscheck: so pika exposes more features than oslo.msg, including one you would like to use | 15:09 |
| NikitaKonovalov | ok, I see | 15:09 |
| krotscheck | Well, it’s more that pika allows us to be more granular and specific. | 15:10 |
| ttx | to be fair, oslo.msg's goal was to streamline queue communication across openstack projects, so limiting options is a bit in its goals | 15:10 |
| ttx | I'm fine with storyboard having a slightly different use case | 15:10 |
| krotscheck | And that totally makes sense. | 15:10 |
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| krotscheck | And, especially in openstack itself, keeping all the messages in predefined queues is super important because different components of openstack have different boot times. | 15:11 |
| ttx | would you say that using pika would prevent us frm switching to an oslo.messaging that would expose the feature we want ? due to different semantics? | 15:11 |
| ttx | i.e. if our use case becomes supported in oslo.messaging, would we be able to switch to that at reasonable cost ? | 15:12 |
| krotscheck | Ish__? Is your code abstracted enough so that we can switch libraries? | 15:12 |
| ttx | or is picking pika (haha) a bit of a non-return point? | 15:12 |
| * krotscheck seems to recall that it is. | 15:12 | |
| NikitaKonovalov | just to make things clear, there is going to be as many queues as we need for every topic, and a number of consumers listenening to a specific queue each? | 15:12 |
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| ttx | I think using RabbitMQ is much more important as far as consistency/familiarity goes than using oslo.messaging | 15:12 |
| ttx | but I would rather not PREVENT us from using oslo.messaging in the future | 15:13 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: That depends on each use case? For subscriptions, we should only be creating one queue that takes all topics. | 15:13 |
| Ish__ | I think it should be easier to switch. | 15:13 |
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| ttx | and we should definitely use the library that lets us have the cake and the icing | 15:13 |
| krotscheck | Case and point: It took Ish__ less than a day to switch her code over from oslo.messaging to pika | 15:13 |
| NikitaKonovalov | we have already hardened MySQL with it's drivers, so why messaging should be generec then? | 15:13 |
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| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Good point | 15:14 |
| krotscheck | So ttx’s concerns are portability. Are you comfortable that we can switch over to oslo.messaging in the future? | 15:14 |
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| Ish__ | if that is required, well we can. | 15:15 |
| ttx | krotscheck, Ish__: then as far as I'm concerned, use pika | 15:16 |
| krotscheck | Ok. NikitaKonovalov - what do you think? | 15:16 |
| NikitaKonovalov | works for me | 15:16 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I'll remove my -2 | 15:16 |
| krotscheck | Alright.... | 15:16 |
| ttx | it's totally defensible saying we need feature X and are willing to switch back to oslo.messaging if it ever implements it | 15:16 |
| NikitaKonovalov | but still need to review that | 15:16 |
| ttx | but will use foo until then | 15:17 |
| krotscheck | #agreed Use pika instead of oslo.messaging, with the understanding that once oslo.messaging supports it we can move to use it again. | 15:17 |
| * krotscheck would rather have someone else maintain his messaging library :) | 15:17 | |
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| krotscheck | #topic MVP(Search) | 15:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP(Search) (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:18 | |
| krotscheck | I think all of these bits are in review. Anyone remember any stoppers? | 15:18 |
| NikitaKonovalov | the backend is approved | 15:19 |
| NikitaKonovalov | just waiting for the tests to pass | 15:19 |
| krotscheck | Awesome. | 15:19 |
| krotscheck | Frontend is pending a rather large review so that the resources know how to search. | 15:19 |
| krotscheck | I did run into a weird issue with the fulltext library on the backend in that it doesn’t seem to like additional criteria, but I didn’t have enough time to dig into _why_. | 15:20 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: I'll check that all parameters are passed correctly | 15:21 |
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| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: They are. It’s just that our search endpoints only accept q= right now, and when I tried to add story_id or something else it just ignored them. | 15:21 |
| NikitaKonovalov | that's strange, I'll chaeck taht | 15:22 |
| NikitaKonovalov | *that | 15:22 |
| krotscheck | Thanks. | 15:22 |
| krotscheck | #topic Launchpad Data Import | 15:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Launchpad Data Import (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:22 | |
| krotscheck | mordred? I have the sneaking suspicion you’re still driving. | 15:22 |
| * krotscheck wants to publicly thank mordred for making the treck all the way to seattle by car this weekend :) | 15:22 | |
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| krotscheck | Alright, let’s move on until he sees this. | 15:23 |
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| krotscheck | #topic Subscription | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Subscription (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:23 | |
| krotscheck | We have LOTS of patches for this. | 15:23 |
| Ish__ | yes… | 15:24 |
| ttx | most patches in review are 80% approved | 15:24 |
| ttx | they should all go in very fast | 15:24 |
| krotscheck | There’s some cross dependencies that need to be managed. | 15:24 |
| ttx | if zuul is with us | 15:24 |
| krotscheck | We can’t land the publisher without rabbit for instance. | 15:24 |
| ttx | all hail Zuul | 15:24 |
| krotscheck | So for the time being, let’s get everything reviewed, and manually land patches so that everything lands in order. | 15:25 |
| krotscheck | I believe the order should be.... | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | let’s see. | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | Subscription API. | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | Subscription UI | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | Rabbit | 15:26 |
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| krotscheck | Subscription Publisher. | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | Subscription consumer. | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | Deferred processing daemon. | 15:26 |
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| krotscheck | Did I miss anything? | 15:26 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | reasonable order for me | 15:27 |
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| Ish__ | no.. | 15:27 |
| krotscheck | Cool. | 15:27 |
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| krotscheck | Ish__: Is that “No I didn’t miss anything” or “No don’t merge it like that”? | 15:28 |
| Ish__ | I mean didn’t miss anything,. ;) | 15:28 |
| krotscheck | :) | 15:28 |
| krotscheck | Thanks | 15:28 |
| krotscheck | There’s still one outstanding piece of work, which is to make the subscriptions show up on the dashboard. | 15:28 |
| krotscheck | And I have to get that in before leaving for vacation on saturday, so the pressure’s on. | 15:29 |
| krotscheck | Any questions before we move on? | 15:29 |
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| ttx | nope | 15:29 |
| krotscheck | #topic Project Groups | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project Groups (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:29 | |
| krotscheck | No progress. | 15:29 |
| krotscheck | Status is as it was a week ago. | 15:29 |
| NikitaKonovalov | nothing from me here either | 15:29 |
| krotscheck | We still have to cover Tags and Emails, but I don’t think we’ve got anything on those. | 15:30 |
| krotscheck | So unless I get objections I’m going to skip. | 15:30 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I'm back from vacation, so I'll focus on tags this week | 15:30 |
| krotscheck | Awesome, thanks. | 15:30 |
| krotscheck | #topic Ongoing Work | 15:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing Work (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:31 | |
| krotscheck | How do people feel about this meeting section? It’s… I dunno, I feel like we cover most of what everyone is working on in the previous pieces. | 15:31 |
| * NikitaKonovalov has the same feeling | 15:31 | |
| ttx | sotoryboard should ultimately make it obvious | 15:32 |
| krotscheck | How about we merge this with open discussion? | 15:32 |
| krotscheck | True | 15:32 |
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| krotscheck | #topic Open Discussion | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:32 | |
| ttx | I think that we are gettingthere, between the vision/roadmap/stories/reviews, we get a pretty accurate picture of where we stand | 15:32 |
| ttx | so i'm fnie with merging with open discussion | 15:33 |
| ttx | for highlights | 15:33 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so the only open discussion piece I have is the ongoing cleanup of the jenkins build. | 15:33 |
| * ttx looks up roadmap | 15:33 | |
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| krotscheck | The highest priority piece right now that we have that’s seeing no movement is the launchpad data import, and I can confidently say that if it doesn’t get done this week, it probably won’t land until september. | 15:34 |
| krotscheck | because both mordred and I won’t be around. | 15:34 |
| ttx | So at this point i'm confident we'll hit 1.1 targets before Paris, and hopefully cover 1.1.1 targets before then | 15:34 |
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| ttx | that means we'll get infra to use us fully | 15:34 |
| krotscheck | yay :) | 15:34 |
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| ttx | i don't think we'll have 1.2 targets, so it will be a little early to fish for guinea pig projects withing the openstack release | 15:35 |
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| krotscheck | Well, we’ve already got refstack and openstack-groups. | 15:36 |
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| ttx | We may get oslo to switch early though | 15:36 |
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| krotscheck | That’d be nice. | 15:36 |
| ttx | since they don't have the same heavy requirements as the other integrated projects | 15:36 |
| ttx | and desperately need our projectgroups | 15:36 |
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| ttx | so maybe they could move in with only basic milestone support | 15:37 |
| krotscheck | Alrightey. | 15:37 |
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| ttx | i'll have to look into splitting that 1.2 between Oslo and other integrated projects | 15:37 |
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| ttx | but it will be difficult imho | 15:37 |
| krotscheck | ttx: It may make the most sense to do project-support as point releases in the 1.2.x versions | 15:37 |
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| krotscheck | That way we can focus instead of trying to please everyone. | 15:38 |
| ttx | krotscheck: right. Pick project X as the target and implement what THEy need to move | 15:38 |
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| krotscheck | That’ll have to be balanced with infra coming to us with “Thanks, and” requests. | 15:39 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: anyway, the 1.1 goals are pretty well set and ordered, so not urgent to refine the 1.2 goals | 15:39 |
| krotscheck | Exactly | 15:39 |
| krotscheck | Also, we have a bug backlog :) | 15:40 |
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| ttx | just need to think how to optimize onboarding | 15:40 |
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| krotscheck | Def something we can do during the summit? | 15:40 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: yes, sounds like the right place for it | 15:41 |
| ttx | given our current progress | 15:41 |
| krotscheck | Alrightey. | 15:41 |
| krotscheck | Any other topics? | 15:41 |
| ttx | if we finish 1.1.1 early I'm pretty sure we'll keep ourselves busy anyway | 15:41 |
| krotscheck | Yeah, ‘cause we have backlogs | 15:41 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | nothing new from me | 15:42 |
| krotscheck | Ok, let’s end early. | 15:42 |
| krotscheck | Thanks everyone | 15:42 |
| krotscheck | #endmeeting | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 11 15:42:44 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-08-11-15.00.html | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-08-11-15.00.txt | 15:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-08-11-15.00.log.html | 15:42 |
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| rakhmerov | #startmeeting Mistral | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 11 16:00:19 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rakhmerov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| rakhmerov | hi | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'mistral' | 16:00 |
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| akuznetsova | hello) | 16:01 |
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| rakhmerov | hi, how are you? | 16:01 |
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| akuznetsova | great) I have started to work with tests which will check workflow execution | 16:02 |
| rakhmerov | excellent, thanks | 16:02 |
| rakhmerov | so let's wait a couple of more minutes and if nobody else shows up we'll finish earlier | 16:03 |
| rakhmerov | because I mostly know your status | 16:03 |
| rakhmerov | and you know mine | 16:03 |
| akuznetsova | yes) | 16:03 |
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| dzimine | hi all! | 16:04 |
| rakhmerov | hey | 16:04 |
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| rakhmerov | we were about to finish the meeting | 16:04 |
| rakhmerov | :) | 16:04 |
| dzimine | ok now we can finish it together :) | 16:04 |
| rakhmerov | Nikolay is sick today so there are only three of us | 16:04 |
| rakhmerov | no problem | 16:04 |
| dzimine | who’s #2 (given i’m #3) | 16:04 |
| akuznetsova | me | 16:05 |
| rakhmerov | I think we pretty much know our statuses | 16:05 |
| rakhmerov | Dmitri, I suggest that we finish the meeting right away, I would better call you tomorrow around your second convenient time (9pm, right)? | 16:05 |
| dzimine | akuznetsova: I looked at your comments re api tests and ok with rename. At first I though the 2 sets of API tests are redundant, now I see they are just different. | 16:05 |
| dzimine | ok. | 16:06 |
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| dzimine | Talk to you Renat later my day. | 16:06 |
| dzimine | bye all! | 16:06 |
| rakhmerov | and thanks for the reviews | 16:06 |
| akuznetsova | dzimine, ok | 16:06 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, bye! The quickest meeting so far :) | 16:07 |
| rakhmerov | thanks | 16:07 |
| rakhmerov | #endmeeting | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:07 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 11 16:07:32 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:07 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2014/mistral.2014-08-11-16.00.html | 16:07 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2014/mistral.2014-08-11-16.00.txt | 16:07 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2014/mistral.2014-08-11-16.00.log.html | 16:07 |
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| rluethi | #startmeeting | 17:00 |
| openstack | rluethi: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 17:00 |
| rluethi | #startmeeting training-guides | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 11 17:00:11 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rluethi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'training_guides' | 17:00 |
| dbite | hello | 17:00 |
| dbite | roll call | 17:00 |
| matjazp | hi | 17:00 |
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| sayali_ | Hello | 17:00 |
| rluethi | sarob cannot be with us today. | 17:00 |
| MeganR | Hi | 17:00 |
| rluethi | hi everyone. | 17:00 |
| dbite | hello guys | 17:01 |
| rluethi | dbite: update on docs? | 17:01 |
| dbite | yes | 17:01 |
| dbite | set the topic? | 17:01 |
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| dbite | *can you set the topic | 17:01 |
| rluethi | #topic docs | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "docs (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:01 | |
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| dbite | #info docs team was previously called stable team | 17:02 |
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| dbite | basic install guide needs to be updated for Icehouse | 17:02 |
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| dbite | some of the sections like ML2 plugin etc. are missing and older OVS plugin for Neutron is still in use | 17:03 |
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| dbite | sarob_: hello | 17:03 |
| sarob_ | Hey. I'm on a short break | 17:03 |
| rluethi | yes. a comparison with the openstack-manuals install-guide for icehouse will show the necessary changes. | 17:03 |
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| dbite | is the Comcast team there with us? | 17:03 |
| MeganR | I'm here | 17:04 |
| matjazp | dbite: for basic install guide, just report relevant bugs... so we can all chip in | 17:04 |
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| dbite | I agree with rluethi, for getting better idea we can compare with install guides under openstack-manuals project | 17:04 |
| dbite | matjazp: Yes, I will start logging bugs | 17:05 |
| rluethi | MeganR: I you guys want to help out, you don't need lots of prior knowledge for this task. | 17:05 |
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| dbite | MeganR: have you guys been working on the install guides part? Last time we discussed we were planning on migrating to something very close to install guides | 17:05 |
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| MeganR | rluethi: we would be happy to help out - especially if not a lot of previous knowledge is needed | 17:06 |
| dbite | sayali_: also can you get in touch with MeganR and her team to get better idea for working on install-guides | 17:06 |
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| sayali_ | dbite, alright | 17:06 |
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| dbite | MeganR: it has a learning curve, but with the current labs section its easier to test out the install guides | 17:06 |
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| rluethi | MeganR: there shouldn't be. Everything in training-guides that deviates from the openstack-manuals install-guide is suspicious. | 17:07 |
| dbite | to be more precise basic-install-guides under training-guides | 17:07 |
| MeganR | ok - we can discuss this in more detail offline, I will look at scheduling some time on Thursday, when Shilla is back | 17:07 |
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| rluethi | what dbite said :). | 17:07 |
| dbite | sure thing | 17:07 |
| dbite | rluethi: you just freaked me out ;) | 17:08 |
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| dbite | any questions for the docs sub-team? | 17:08 |
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| dbite | rluethi: lets move on | 17:09 |
| rluethi | #topic upstream | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "upstream (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:10 | |
| sarob_ | I got a sec | 17:10 |
| rluethi | sarob: cool. your stage. | 17:10 |
| sarob_ | I can't get epicslide to build on osx | 17:10 |
| sarob_ | Only ubuntu | 17:10 |
| matjazp | sarob_: what about landslide? | 17:11 |
| sarob_ | So I PDF support will be delayed a bit | 17:11 |
| sarob_ | Landslide is it | 17:11 |
| dbite | matjazp: the problem with landslide is PDF support | 17:11 |
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| sarob_ | So HTML slides only for right now | 17:11 |
| sarob_ | Id like to get some feedback on the dir structure | 17:12 |
| rluethi | sarob: any idea how hard it would be to fix epicslide? | 17:12 |
| sarob_ | For the current upstream patch | 17:12 |
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| matjazp | dbite: maybe we can ask Foundation for help with PrinceXML for PDF geenration? I know its not opensource, but in the mean time... it gets things moving | 17:12 |
| sarob_ | Rluethi: not sure. Something to work on longer term | 17:12 |
| sarob_ | Short term we only need HTML I believe | 17:13 |
| dbite | matjazp: we need to push opensource as much as possible | 17:13 |
| sarob_ | Dbite: agreed | 17:13 |
| rluethi | #info epicslide doesn't build on OS X. We need to stay with landslide for the time being (which means no PDF generation). | 17:13 |
| dbite | sarob_: I think we should proceed with landslide and try to get the PDF support in eventually | 17:13 |
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| matjazp | sarob_: dbite: sure, but I see it as a tool--- much like Oxygen for XML editing... | 17:13 |
| sarob_ | Gotta go | 17:14 |
| sarob_ | Agreed | 17:14 |
| rluethi | matjazp: Oxygen is another problem, not an example to follow :). | 17:14 |
| sarob_ | Cheers | 17:14 |
| dbite | matjazp: Oxygen is not exactly a good example in this case | 17:14 |
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| dbite | sarob_:bye | 17:14 |
| dbite | I use VIM to write XML code | 17:14 |
| matjazp | yes, I know.. but it gets the job done | 17:14 |
| rluethi | sarob: we can't give such tools to volunteers and students, that's bad. | 17:14 |
| dbite | with LandSlide we officially lock down | 17:14 |
| dbite | the RST is there to be used by people | 17:15 |
| dbite | so someone can volunteer in and use PrinceXML | 17:15 |
| dbite | but we should try to keep it out of upstream code | 17:15 |
| dbite | does it make sense? | 17:15 |
| rluethi | #action sarob will try to get upstream material merged soonish. | 17:16 |
| matjazp | dbite: no, I mean that PrinceXML can be used only at Foundations's servers, for ppl to load PDFs... not as a tool that everyone needs to have on theirs coms | 17:16 |
| dbite | ok, makes sense | 17:16 |
| matjazp | we just need to deliver PDFs to DL | 17:16 |
| dbite | I would suggest asking this to Sarob during the next meeting | 17:17 |
| matjazp | OK | 17:17 |
| rluethi | sorry, I got everyone off track. Any comments on the directory structure? | 17:17 |
| rluethi | directory structure for upstream materials? | 17:17 |
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| dbite | I think what reed has proposed is a good direction to start with | 17:17 |
| dbite | for the presentation | 17:17 |
| matjazp | rluethi: just start the ball rolling, we can change it later ;) | 17:18 |
| reed | rluethi, afaik landslide generates pdf | 17:18 |
| rluethi | if anyone else is interested, have a look here: | 17:18 |
| rluethi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100999/ | 17:18 |
| rluethi | reed: I thought it only does so with PrinceXML. | 17:18 |
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| matjazp | reed: did you try to do it without PrinceXML? | 17:19 |
| reed | rluethi, you may be right, I never tried pdf | 17:19 |
| rluethi | reed: there's your problem then :). | 17:19 |
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| reed | i don't see the point of pdf anyway :) | 17:19 |
| rluethi | reed: nice for handouts, I guess. | 17:19 |
| matjazp | reed: students like to DL pdfs... | 17:19 |
| matjazp | rluethi: exactly | 17:20 |
| dbite | can we not use another technology/project for generating PDF's ? | 17:20 |
| reed | students are wrong :) | 17:20 |
| matjazp | rluethi: they are bugging me if I don't give them materials for DL | 17:20 |
| dbite | reed: they are the future ;) | 17:20 |
| reed | god save us from that future :) | 17:20 |
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| dbite | hehe | 17:20 |
| * rluethi sighs | 17:20 | |
| rluethi | moving on? | 17:20 |
| rluethi | #topic testing | 17:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testing (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:21 | |
| rluethi | matjazp: ? | 17:21 |
| matjazp | I started with associate guide | 17:21 |
| matjazp | missing quizzes | 17:21 |
| matjazp | I have bugs reported | 17:21 |
| rluethi | matjazp: you reported bugs or you just have them? | 17:22 |
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| matjazp | rluethi: I reported bugs, so ppl looking for something to contribute can chip in | 17:22 |
| rluethi | matjazp: are you getting help? | 17:23 |
| sayali_ | We could use bartaz.github.io/impress.js/#/bored for the presentation | 17:23 |
| matjazp | rluethi: no, not at the moment | 17:23 |
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| rluethi | MeganR: that may be another thing your folks might be able to help out, learning stuff in the process. | 17:24 |
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| MeganR | ok, we will add it to the list! | 17:24 |
| rluethi | matjazp: could you give them some help getting started on tests? | 17:24 |
| dbite | sayali_: can you take a lead on this? | 17:24 |
| matjazp | maybe we can all report as many bugs as we can, so ppl can see where they can contribute | 17:24 |
| matjazp | rluethi: yes, sure | 17:25 |
| sayali_ | dbite, sure, we can generate pdfs too using that | 17:25 |
| rluethi | great. all: please remember to see the "low hanging fruit" tag for bugs that are easy. | 17:25 |
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| rluethi | what's the proper tag again? | 17:25 |
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| agentleone | low-hanging-fruit | 17:27 |
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| rluethi | is it? cool, thanks! | 17:27 |
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| rluethi | anything else for testing? | 17:27 |
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| matjazp | nope | 17:28 |
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| rluethi | #topic infrastructure | 17:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "infrastructure (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:28 | |
| rluethi | dbite? | 17:28 |
| dbite | #info training-guides team mark low-hanging-fruits for easy bugs | 17:28 |
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| dbite | we have good progress for the labs | 17:28 |
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| dbite | controller node is almost done | 17:29 |
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| dbite | I would suggest running the osbash.sh script for generating multi-node environment | 17:29 |
| dbite | but its not ready yet | 17:29 |
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| matjazp | dbite: but if I remember correctly, base disks are finished, right? | 17:30 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: never finished, but working. | 17:30 |
| dbite | what do you mean by base disks to be precise? | 17:30 |
| dbite | its not finished | 17:30 |
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| matjazp | rluethi: yes... as long its functional, its ok ;) | 17:30 |
| dbite | matjazp: the openstack deployed on it is not yet functional | 17:31 |
| rluethi | the only change in basedisks in the past weeks was moving to Ubuntu 14.04 | 17:31 |
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| rluethi | however, we are at a point where several services should be up and running after the scripts have run. | 17:32 |
| dbite | to be precise, we could claim that base disk is ready | 17:32 |
| rluethi | you can test the services and see if they work. | 17:32 |
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| dbite | openstack deployed on it is only completed for Keystone, Glance for Controller Node | 17:33 |
| dbite | Neutron and Nova for controller node are WIP | 17:33 |
| matjazp | rluethi: dbite: yes, I'm looking at your code and scripts from time to time.. nice progress | 17:33 |
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| rluethi | I try to keep Vagrant working, but I'm not testing very often. | 17:34 |
| rluethi | It will lack some features. | 17:34 |
| dbite | matjazp: thanks, but it needs lot of work | 17:34 |
| rluethi | I don't know yet how to work automated snapshots into vagrant. | 17:34 |
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| rluethi | dbite: anything else on labs/infrastructure? | 17:35 |
| matjazp | rluethi: I know I read somewhere about snapshost in wagrant.. If I find it, will forward | 17:35 |
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| dbite | nope | 17:36 |
| rluethi | matjazp: there was a plugin, I tested it. but we don't have host-side scripting on Vagrant. | 17:36 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: we have to finish the scripts first, anyway. | 17:36 |
| rluethi | #topic misc | 17:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "misc (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:37 | |
| rluethi | anybody confused, shocked, depressed? | 17:37 |
| rluethi | any questions/issues you would like to have discussed? | 17:37 |
| dbite | or puzzled or just landed here by mistake? | 17:37 |
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| rluethi | dbite: then I don't care :). | 17:37 |
| dbite | haha :) | 17:38 |
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| sayali_ | can you think about impress.js for the lanslide issue? | 17:38 |
| rluethi | sayali_: have you tried both? how do they compare? | 17:38 |
| dbite | do you mean landslide? | 17:38 |
| sayali_ | yes dbite | 17:38 |
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| matjazp | sayali_: how does it generate PDFs? | 17:39 |
| dbite | does it support PDF features? | 17:39 |
| sayali_ | bartaz.github.io/impress.js/#/bored | 17:39 |
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| sayali_ | rluethi, I haven't tried landslide, but impress is pretty good. It supports pdf too | 17:39 |
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| rluethi | sayali_: I know impress (and similar tools) look cool, but easy of use for slide authors is very important. | 17:40 |
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| dbite | if it can be created using MD or RST its should be tested out | 17:40 |
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| rluethi | sayali_: impress might be too complex. if you have experience that shows otherwise, at least I would be interested. | 17:40 |
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| sayali_ | rluethi, you can generate it using MD which is pretty easy | 17:41 |
| sayali_ | I could look into it further and check the complexity | 17:41 |
| rluethi | sayali_: upstream materials should land in the repo soon, maybe you could translate it (or some of it) to impress. | 17:42 |
| rluethi | sayali_: that would give us something to compare. | 17:42 |
| rluethi | sayali_: working PDF generation would definitely be a plus, since that's our current problem with landslide. | 17:43 |
| sayali_ | rluethi, ok I will put up an initial patch to show how it works | 17:43 |
| rluethi | #action sayali will create a patch to help us evaluate impress.js as a possible alternative to landslide. | 17:44 |
| rluethi | anything else? | 17:44 |
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| rluethi | thanks everyone for being here! | 17:45 |
| rluethi | #endmeeting | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 11 17:45:19 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2014/training_guides.2014-08-11-17.00.html | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2014/training_guides.2014-08-11-17.00.txt | 17:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2014/training_guides.2014-08-11-17.00.log.html | 17:45 |
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| lyxus | anteaya, no meeting today ? | 18:00 |
| krtaylor | #startmeeting third-party | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 11 18:00:13 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 18:00 |
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| krtaylor | anyone here for third-party? | 18:00 |
| anteaya | lyxus: patience my friend | 18:00 |
| anteaya | lyxus: :D | 18:00 |
| anteaya | o/ | 18:00 |
| lyxus | anteaya,!! | 18:00 |
| lyxus | o/ | 18:00 |
| krtaylor | um, I started on time :) | 18:00 |
| joa | krtaylor: yup :) | 18:00 |
| anteaya | you did | 18:00 |
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| lyxus | krtaylor, I will find a lame excuse (NTP is not working well on my computer) | 18:01 |
| krtaylor | Hi everyone! | 18:01 |
| joa | hi :) | 18:01 |
| sweston | Hi! | 18:02 |
| krtaylor | ok, let's get started | 18:02 |
| krtaylor | here's the agenda: | 18:02 |
| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 18:02 |
| asselin__ | hi | 18:02 |
| krtaylor | and as a reminder to everyone | 18:02 |
| krtaylor | #topic Welcome & Reminder of OpenStack Mission | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Welcome & Reminder of OpenStack Mission (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:02 | |
| krtaylor | #info The OpenStack Open Source Cloud Mission: to produce the ubiquitous Open Source Cloud Computing platform that will meet the needs of public and private clouds regardless of size, by being simple to implement and massively scalable. | 18:03 |
| krtaylor | alright, now that the formalities are out of the way | 18:03 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Review of previous week's open action items | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of previous week's open action items (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:03 | |
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| krtaylor | the terminology patch has had good reviews | 18:03 |
| krtaylor | but not yet merged | 18:04 |
| krtaylor | sweston, any comments? | 18:04 |
| anteaya | let's change the topic on that patch to third-party | 18:04 |
| sweston | yes, I will merge the patch this week | 18:04 |
| anteaya | so it gets picked up like the rest | 18:04 |
| krtaylor | sweston, ^^^ that would be really nice | 18:05 |
| sweston | ok | 18:05 |
| krtaylor | -t | 18:05 |
| anteaya | sweston: well you can ask for it to be merged | 18:05 |
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| anteaya | but it is up to infra to merge it | 18:05 |
| sweston | anteaya: understood | 18:05 |
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| anteaya | and reviewing infra patches is a good way to help your patch get reviewed | 18:05 |
| anteaya | let me know if I can help you with that at all | 18:06 |
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| krtaylor | thanks anteaya, its so good to see you around here again | 18:06 |
| anteaya | thanks good to be back | 18:06 |
| krtaylor | ok, so, the next action was a carry over from the previous week, due to the infra meeting running over | 18:06 |
| sweston | anteaya: yes, welcome back as well!! | 18:07 |
| anteaya | you have done a great job keeping things moving along, all of you | 18:07 |
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| anteaya | well done | 18:07 |
| krtaylor | thanks | 18:07 |
| sweston | :-D | 18:07 |
| krtaylor | so, re: templates - it was on the agenda for the last meeting, but I had to join late | 18:07 |
| krtaylor | asselin__, are you around? | 18:08 |
| joa | yay, templates | 18:08 |
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| krtaylor | when I got there it went off in a different direction, it switch to better documentation | 18:08 |
| asselin__ | yes, infra team would like to have the 3rd party work moved to infra. | 18:08 |
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| krtaylor | hm...it is | 18:08 |
| anteaya | well to give some history, it came from infra | 18:08 |
| anteaya | got forked and now is in several different states of notes | 18:09 |
| asselin__ | well...there's quite a few ppl using github. | 18:09 |
| joa | also, the templates make sense being with infra (imho) | 18:09 |
| krtaylor | oh, you are talking about jaypipes repo | 18:09 |
| anteaya | so infra would like what is in infra attended to | 18:09 |
| anteaya | which is great | 18:09 |
| asselin__ | we should move back to infra and have it there | 18:09 |
| anteaya | since is answers the question of where should it live | 18:09 |
| anteaya | right | 18:09 |
| anteaya | so did you understand the steps to make that happen? | 18:10 |
| krtaylor | but the discussion point was to have canned templates that would live in a dir in /config | 18:10 |
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| krtaylor | not sure how it went ot jaypipes repo and documentation | 18:10 |
| asselin__ | sorry...maybe I'm not fully understanding what is a canned template. | 18:10 |
| anteaya | I think the larger issue is to have infra ci more consumable | 18:10 |
| krtaylor | anyway, I think the bottom line was that we are going to try to improve the documentation with samples of the files inline, at least thats what I took away from the discussion | 18:11 |
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| anteaya | and the direction of making it more consumable is to have it in infra, and help with the work currently going on to make infra more consumable | 18:11 |
| krtaylor | asselin__, a template that is well documented with examples, sorry for the confusion | 18:11 |
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| anteaya | actually if we could help with the splitting out of some of the puppet modules that would go a long way | 18:11 |
| asselin__ | my understanding / goal is to have a set of puppet scripts in infra that can be run/customized to run 3rd party | 18:12 |
| krtaylor | yes, there are several people working to that goal | 18:12 |
| anteaya | that is the point of the split of the puppet modules | 18:12 |
| anteaya | krtaylor: who? | 18:12 |
| krtaylor | I know ArxCruz is, and has a github repo on the subject | 18:13 |
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| asselin__ | yes, 3rd party ci would use the split puppet modules, and contribute to areas where they need to be more generic/reusable. | 18:13 |
| anteaya | great | 18:13 |
| krtaylor | ArxCruz, are you here? | 18:13 |
| anteaya | well doing the work in infra is kind of the point | 18:13 |
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| sweston | And I am working towards that as well | 18:13 |
| anteaya | nibalizer and jesusaurus are working on it | 18:13 |
| anteaya | so sweston perhaps you can find them and see how you can help | 18:14 |
| anteaya | for starters reviews would be great | 18:14 |
| krtaylor | ok, that seems like a great team to organize and drive the work | 18:14 |
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| anteaya | well the point is the team of two needs more help | 18:14 |
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| nibalizer | there is a spec now | 18:14 |
| anteaya | so in addition to sweston, who can help? | 18:14 |
| nibalizer | let me see if i can find it | 18:14 |
| anteaya | yay nibalizer | 18:14 |
| anteaya | thanks | 18:15 |
| sweston | yes, I was going to suggest that there be some more formal structure to this | 18:15 |
| krtaylor | nice, a puppet consumability team | 18:15 |
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| anteaya | sweston: thanks, we need a plan in addition to agreement | 18:15 |
| nibalizer | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99990/ | 18:15 |
| anteaya | krtaylor: that is fine but we need some members | 18:15 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99990/ | 18:15 |
| krtaylor | there is clarkb 's split spec, is that what you are thinking about? | 18:16 |
| anteaya | thanks | 18:16 |
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| anteaya | nibalizer: what do you need right now to move forward? | 18:16 |
| krtaylor | ah, ok, no thats different | 18:16 |
| anteaya | reviews? what? | 18:16 |
| nibalizer | oh wow this is openstack meeting | 18:17 |
| nibalizer | i thought we were in infra | 18:17 |
| sweston | I have a few more ideas regarding making puppet more consumable | 18:17 |
| anteaya | nibalizer: glad you are here | 18:17 |
| nibalizer | what we need is to get consensus | 18:17 |
| nibalizer | then do an example mod | 18:17 |
| nibalizer | then slam the rest out | 18:17 |
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| anteaya | nibalizer: consensus amougst whom | 18:17 |
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| nibalizer | we talked about this at the last infra meeting | 18:17 |
| nibalizer | anteaya: infra cores mostly | 18:18 |
| nibalizer | with myself and jesusaurus | 18:18 |
| anteaya | nibalizer: and let's use gentle words in this space please | 18:18 |
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| anteaya | nibalizer: great, so third party folks, do review | 18:18 |
| krtaylor | hehheh | 18:18 |
| jesusaurus | anteaya: yes, reviews. we have a good idea of how we are going to move forward, but the spec still feels like its not very well fleshed-out to me | 18:18 |
| anteaya | and stay in contact with nibalizer about the progress of this spec | 18:18 |
| anteaya | jesusaurus: great thank you, so third party folks, we can review this spec | 18:19 |
| anteaya | krtaylor: can you make that an action item pleease? | 18:19 |
| krtaylor | will do | 18:19 |
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| nibalizer | along with making puppet more re-usable, we're working on getting a lot of the stuff that is hardcoded in the openstack_project module moved into a hiera directory | 18:19 |
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| anteaya | nibalizer: awesome, now many folks in third party might not have much familiarity with puppet | 18:20 |
| nibalizer | i would expect those changes to be comming along very soon since we have a lot of agreement on how to do that and the patchset well like | 18:20 |
| anteaya | nibalizer: so if you have any documenations suggestions, that would be great | 18:20 |
| krtaylor | #action third-party review and sync in infra on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99990/ | 18:20 |
| jesusaurus | and also working on moving things from other modules into the openstack_project module as appropriate | 18:20 |
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| anteaya | nibalizer: nice | 18:20 |
| nibalizer | anteaya: as it lands, ill add documentation on 'what does this mean for me?' kind of questions | 18:20 |
| nibalizer | explaining use and reasoning | 18:20 |
| jesusaurus | ++ | 18:20 |
| anteaya | jesusaurus: thanks, if you could create an etherpad with easy steps, we can do our best to help | 18:20 |
| anteaya | great | 18:21 |
| krtaylor | ++ | 18:21 |
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| anteaya | we want to help but we don't have much expertise here yet | 18:21 |
| krtaylor | well, some have more than others | 18:21 |
| anteaya | breaking things into small clearly actionable items would be great for us | 18:21 |
| anteaya | krtaylor: yes | 18:21 |
| krtaylor | but prob few expert level | 18:21 |
| anteaya | well I have no puppet, so I am speaking for myself here | 18:22 |
| krtaylor | ok, good discussion, anything else on that topic? | 18:22 |
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| sweston | I have one suggestion, has anyone else thought it would be a good idea to have some code tying the puppet modules together? | 18:23 |
| krtaylor | sweston, expand | 18:23 |
| anteaya | sweston: let's review what we have here first | 18:23 |
| anteaya | and then have an item on next week's agenda | 18:23 |
| jesusaurus | sweston: we will definitely need something like that in order to test multiple modules in an ecosystem | 18:24 |
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| anteaya | is that fair? | 18:24 |
| krtaylor | agreed, sweston wait till open floor, lets move on | 18:24 |
| joa | <- no idea, puppet noob | 18:24 |
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| krtaylor | then the next on last weeks - New Nova requirements, that was my action and I forgot about it | 18:24 |
| sweston | I will wait for open floor, then | 18:24 |
| sweston | krtaylor: please continue ;-) | 18:24 |
| krtaylor | but as it turns out, that is prob ok, it hasnt been discussed in detail yet | 18:24 |
| krtaylor | it would be good for anyone with nova drivers to get involved here | 18:25 |
| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HypervisorSupportMatrix/Requirements | 18:25 |
| krtaylor | I'd like to see a test to function breakdown, but that is later | 18:25 |
| krtaylor | anyway, so we'll carry that action for another week | 18:26 |
| krtaylor | ok, next | 18:26 |
| krtaylor | #topic Announcements | 18:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:26 | |
| krtaylor | anyone with any announcements? | 18:26 |
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| anteaya | well I think mine are in announcements | 18:26 |
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| krtaylor | yes, anteaya | 18:27 |
| krtaylor | you have the floor | 18:27 |
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| anteaya | okay | 18:27 |
| anteaya | Difference between program and project (anteaya) | 18:27 |
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| anteaya | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/programs.yaml | 18:28 |
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| anteaya | so there was a question last week | 18:28 |
| anteaya | about the difference between programs and projects | 18:28 |
| anteaya | so if we look at this file I linked | 18:28 |
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| krtaylor | no, it was me using the wrong term | 18:28 |
| krtaylor | my bad | 18:28 |
| anteaya | we see that programs at the larger group | 18:28 |
| krtaylor | I "said" one when I meant the other | 18:28 |
| anteaya | programs have projects | 18:29 |
| anteaya | projects are repos | 18:29 |
| anteaya | thought I would clarify | 18:29 |
| krtaylor | yep, good for reference, I should be more crisp | 18:29 |
| anteaya | jsut to ensure we were all on the same page | 18:29 |
| anteaya | np | 18:29 |
| anteaya | many are confused | 18:29 |
| anteaya | and not everyone knows about this reference in the governance repo | 18:29 |
| anteaya | which is our canonical repo for this kind of reference | 18:29 |
| anteaya | so that's it | 18:29 |
| anteaya | any questions? | 18:30 |
| krtaylor | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/programs.yaml | 18:30 |
| anteaya | thanks | 18:30 |
| anteaya | so next item | 18:30 |
| anteaya | #info Sometime this week third party ci accounts will all be evaluated to ensure " CI" is on the end of the name (anteaya) | 18:30 |
| anteaya | so we have a patch up | 18:30 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95743/ | 18:30 |
| anteaya | it changes the js in gerrit gui | 18:30 |
| krtaylor | anteaya, are you doing that switch over? | 18:31 |
| anteaya | it collects everything ending in " CI" at the end of the full name | 18:31 |
| anteaya | and puts then in a seperate table | 18:31 |
| anteaya | well I don't have gerrit permissions yet | 18:31 |
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| anteaya | so I have to co-ordinate with jeblair or SergeyLukjanov for the rename | 18:32 |
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| anteaya | but we want the patch in effect | 18:32 |
| anteaya | so we need to rename the accounts | 18:32 |
| krtaylor | agreed | 18:32 |
| anteaya | this pass will probably just be sticking CI on the end of all the accounts | 18:32 |
| anteaya | so the js will work | 18:32 |
| * krtaylor needs to review it | 18:32 | |
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| anteaya | and since renaming all the things so the names reflect the activity of the account will take some time, it will probably be a seperate renaming | 18:33 |
| krtaylor | anteaya, is this happening with the rename format? | 18:33 |
| krtaylor | or just appending -ci | 18:33 |
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| anteaya | I don't know yet, since i have to talk to jeblair about it and he is away today | 18:33 |
| krtaylor | understood | 18:33 |
| anteaya | we are appending " CI" to the full name of the account | 18:34 |
| anteaya | and probably doing obvious changes like removing testing from the end if it is there | 18:34 |
| krtaylor | sure, makes sense | 18:34 |
| anteaya | that is the general gist | 18:34 |
| krtaylor | anything else? questions anyone? | 18:34 |
| anteaya | the likelihood someone will be upset exists but we need the js in place | 18:35 |
| anteaya | so it is a risk I am willing to take | 18:35 |
| krtaylor | anteaya, agreed | 18:35 |
| anteaya | thanks | 18:35 |
| krtaylor | it has to be managable | 18:35 |
| anteaya | that's it from me | 18:35 |
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| krtaylor | thanks anteaya | 18:35 |
| krtaylor | ok, onward | 18:35 |
| anteaya | and my lunch pickup has arrived so I am out for the rest | 18:35 |
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| anteaya | I will read the logs when I am back | 18:35 |
| anteaya | thanks | 18:35 |
| joa | imho | 18:36 |
| joa | for reviewing a patch | 18:36 |
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| krtaylor | thanks again anteaya | 18:36 |
| joa | it's necessary | 18:36 |
| joa | so kudos for that :) | 18:36 |
| krtaylor | next | 18:36 |
| krtaylor | #topic OpenStack Program Items | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Program Items (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:36 | |
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| krtaylor | quick reminder | 18:36 |
| krtaylor | please tag and review third-party patchsets | 18:37 |
| krtaylor | so we can keep track | 18:37 |
| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/config+branch:master+topic:third-party,n,z | 18:37 |
| krtaylor | and now joa | 18:37 |
| krtaylor | you have the floor | 18:37 |
| joa | alright :) | 18:37 |
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| joa | Soo, as discussed two or three meetings back, I was, as a newcomer thinking about how to improve the current docs | 18:38 |
| krtaylor | this was making small changes instead of one big one, right | 18:38 |
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| joa | So, I tried my hand at it after the meeting, putting my "feedback" into the newly created openstack-infra/manuals https://review.openstack.org/#/c/110651/ | 18:38 |
| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/110651/ | 18:39 |
| joa | Happened that jeblair from infra was afraid (rightly so) to have duplications of documentations through this | 18:39 |
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| joa | So it would be nice to pick whatever pieces I wrote and re-work the current third_party.rst in docs (if i'm not mistaken?) | 18:39 |
| joa | most probably having some reworked into pointers to other documentation bits | 18:40 |
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| krtaylor | joa, it is somewhat related to the template docs discussion, and consumability in general | 18:41 |
| joa | sure | 18:41 |
| krtaylor | it is always easier to make incremental change | 18:41 |
| joa | yeah, so the big question for everyone is: which bits deserve to be used to improve the current docs | 18:41 |
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| krtaylor | joa, maybe strip what is there and create an etherpad for the rest? | 18:42 |
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| krtaylor | or didnt you have one | 18:42 |
| * krtaylor goes looking | 18:42 | |
| joa | there was an etherpad as the source yes | 18:42 |
| joa | still have the link at work, not here | 18:42 |
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| krtaylor | ok, if you want help with sections, we can discuss here next week, or propose a section and we'll review | 18:43 |
| joa | about that, I need yourn inputs, to see which bits should be kept and which not | 18:43 |
| krtaylor | ok, generalize a list of sections to keep /or not | 18:44 |
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| krtaylor | something we can understand quickly, and lets put it on the agenda for enxt week | 18:45 |
| krtaylor | next | 18:45 |
| joa | okay | 18:45 |
| krtaylor | but it needs to be summarized into areas in question | 18:45 |
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| krtaylor | so we can understand and discuss in this time format, else infra or email works too | 18:45 |
| joa | well taking jeblair's worries into account I'm sure some of the sections might only deserve a pointer to the right doc | 18:46 |
| joa | (and then maybe improving the other areas on the way) | 18:46 |
| joa | I might ping you on #infra then | 18:46 |
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| joa | to have some discussions before the next meeting | 18:46 |
| krtaylor | sure | 18:46 |
| krtaylor | thats fine | 18:46 |
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| joa | ok, then i'm done :) | 18:47 |
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| krtaylor | #action joa and krtaylor to discuss doc improvement sections to focus on | 18:47 |
| krtaylor | alright | 18:48 |
| krtaylor | #topic Deadlines & Deprecations | 18:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Deadlines & Deprecations (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:48 | |
| krtaylor | any deadlines to communicate? | 18:48 |
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| krtaylor | I believe cinder was going to have everyone accounted by today | 18:49 |
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| krtaylor | they have mid-cycle this week I believe | 18:49 |
| joa | Well, there was this deadline around today | 18:49 |
| krtaylor | we might get a report next week | 18:50 |
| krtaylor | joa, for cinder? | 18:50 |
| joa | but as far as I've discussed with DuncanT, it was first and foremost in order to push vendore to have a CI (yeah) | 18:50 |
| hemanthravi | should neutron third-party failures be discussed in the weekly neutron meeting? | 18:50 |
| joa | as for myself, I miss some configuration bits but i'm almost there, for instance; | 18:50 |
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| krtaylor | hemanthravi, they can be discussed here, wait until open floor at the end | 18:51 |
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| krtaylor | ok, lets move on then | 18:51 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Highlighting a Program or Gerrit Account | 18:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Highlighting a Program or Gerrit Account (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:51 | |
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| krtaylor | this is quick since there was not any added to the agenda :) | 18:52 |
| krtaylor | ok so... | 18:52 |
| krtaylor | #topic Open Discussion | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:52 | |
| krtaylor | lyxus, did you have something? | 18:53 |
| krtaylor | hemanthravi, this is the place, anything? | 18:53 |
| hemanthravi | one convergence ci is failing due to a change and is logged as a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1353309 | 18:53 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1353309 in neutron "l3 agent is failing with unsupported version endpoint does not support rpc version 1.3" [High,Confirmed] | 18:53 |
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| * krtaylor reads | 18:54 | |
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| hemanthravi | the bug needs to be fixed for the ci to stop failing | 18:54 |
| krtaylor | hemanthravi, can you expand on your test environment? | 18:55 |
| hemanthravi | we have a plugin that runs against our third-party controller | 18:55 |
| krtaylor | are there systems at different install levels maybe? icehouse/havana? | 18:56 |
| hemanthravi | the setup launches a vm, deploys the code using devstack and runs through the tests | 18:56 |
| hemanthravi | the devstack script is failing | 18:56 |
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| krtaylor | hemanthravi, this may be something to bring up in -neutron | 18:58 |
| krtaylor | since we are running out of time | 18:58 |
| hemanthravi | ok, will do thanks | 18:58 |
| krtaylor | 2 minutes | 18:58 |
| krtaylor | quick question? | 18:58 |
| krtaylor | ok, that this weeks meeting then | 18:59 |
| krtaylor | thanks everyone | 18:59 |
| sweston | thanks! | 18:59 |
| krtaylor | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 11 18:59:52 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2014/third_party.2014-08-11-18.00.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2014/third_party.2014-08-11-18.00.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2014/third_party.2014-08-11-18.00.log.html | 18:59 |
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| devananda | hi! who's here for the Ironic meeting? | 19:00 |
| jroll | \o | 19:00 |
| mrda | o/ | 19:00 |
| lucasagomes | \o/ | 19:00 |
| NobodyCam | \o/ | 19:00 |
| wanyen | hi | 19:00 |
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| matty_dubs | o/ | 19:00 |
| harshada_kakad | o/ | 19:00 |
| dtantsur | o/ | 19:00 |
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| rameshg87 | hi | 19:01 |
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| devananda | rloo? Shrews? adam_g? | 19:01 |
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| Shrews | aye | 19:01 |
| adam_g | o/ | 19:01 |
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| NobodyCam | is rloo back? | 19:01 |
| devananda | ok, that's just about everyone | 19:01 |
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| devananda | #startmeeting ironic | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 11 19:01:40 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 19:01 |
| devananda | Hi! As usual, the agenda can be found here: | 19:01 |
| devananda | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic | 19:01 |
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| devananda | #chair NobodyCam | 19:02 |
| lucasagomes | NobodyCam, yup, she was on today | 19:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: NobodyCam devananda | 19:02 |
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| JayF | o/ | 19:02 |
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| GheRivero | o/ | 19:02 |
| NobodyCam | lucasagomes: :) | 19:02 |
| linggao | o/ | 19:02 |
| devananda | hm, ok. I hope she's actually back -- there are some -2's she needed to lift last tiem I checked | 19:02 |
| rloo | o/ | 19:02 |
| devananda | #topic announcements | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:02 | |
| devananda | rloo: hi! welcome back :) | 19:02 |
| rloo | hi devananda. | 19:03 |
| rloo | lifted ;) | 19:03 |
| devananda | awesome, thanks | 19:03 |
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| devananda | so, probably the biggest announcement for the week -- it's my last meeting before I'm on vacation | 19:03 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 19:03 |
| devananda | I will probably be reachable on my cell phone if the planets align just-so ... | 19:03 |
| NobodyCam | devananda: three weeks | 19:03 |
| devananda | but really. From 8/18 - 9/3, I'm *GONE* | 19:03 |
| NobodyCam | enjoy | 19:03 |
| devananda | I totally trust all of you :) | 19:04 |
| mrda | lol | 19:04 |
| lucasagomes | heh o/ | 19:04 |
| devananda | especially NobodyCam to run the meetings and lucasagomes to represent us in the weekly project sync's with ttx | 19:04 |
| lucasagomes | enjoy the holidays | 19:04 |
| NobodyCam | party ar deva house | 19:04 |
| NobodyCam | ar=at | 19:04 |
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| devananda | my goal for this week, and to a degree, this meeting, is to make sure all the plans are clear | 19:04 |
| devananda | so ya'll do not feel blocked in my absense | 19:04 |
| devananda | so as the meeting goes on, please raise any concerns about that in the relevant subject area | 19:05 |
| devananda | also -- the day after I get back is feature freeze! | 19:05 |
| devananda | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Juno_Release_Schedule | 19:05 |
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| devananda | one other small announcement - I've taken fedora support off the standing agenda | 19:06 |
| devananda | according to dtantsur, it's been stable for a while, so we can free up that slot | 19:06 |
| NobodyCam | and our spec freeze today? | 19:06 |
| matty_dubs | Nice work, dtantsur! | 19:06 |
| dtantsur | :) | 19:06 |
| NobodyCam | awesome :) | 19:06 |
| mrda | good job! | 19:06 |
| devananda | #topic release cycle status | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "release cycle status (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:06 | |
| devananda | so - as I said, featuer freeze is in 3 weeks | 19:07 |
| JayF | devananda: I'd strongly suggest, esepecially given you're leaving and the status of the open specs that sit, that we go ahead and say we're done with spec approvals for J | 19:07 |
| devananda | a few months back, I'd said feature proposal freeze would be this thursday. I'd actually like to close it today. | 19:07 |
| devananda | JayF: exactly | 19:07 |
| devananda | as point of reference, most (if not all) other projects closed their specs a few weeks ago | 19:07 |
| NobodyCam | +! | 19:07 |
| NobodyCam | +1 | 19:07 |
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| devananda | I wanted to wait until a week after our sprint. so here we are | 19:08 |
| rloo | is it fair to change the date? | 19:08 |
| rloo | (not that I have any specs, but for those that do) | 19:08 |
| NobodyCam | awesome job everyone with reguard to our first round of specs | 19:08 |
| devananda | rloo: there has been PLENTY of time for folks to propose and iterate on specs | 19:08 |
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| Shrews | yeah, good job on that, spec cores | 19:08 |
| JayF | rloo: The proposal freeze has already passed, and there are not any open specs, IMO, that are ready for Juno | 19:09 |
| lucasagomes | sounds good... we gotta also talk maybe in the open discussion what we are doing with the specs that are in the queue and will be moved to K, if they should adhere to the new spec format first (having only an introduction) etc... | 19:09 |
| devananda | rloo: and all the ones that are left are actually ones I don't think we can do | 19:09 |
| rloo | ahh, in that case, no need to change the date, just don't approve any cuz they aren't ready. | 19:09 |
| harshada_kakad | so cnt the open spec be approved ?? | 19:09 |
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| devananda | any cores or spec-cores object to closing spec reviews for Juno today? | 19:10 |
| NobodyCam | harshada_kakad: do you have a link? | 19:10 |
| devananda | (will give it a minute for folks to say something) | 19:10 |
| rloo | yeah, I object | 19:10 |
| NobodyCam | devananda: yes please. | 19:10 |
| harshada_kakad | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ironic/+spec/seamicro-serial-console | 19:11 |
| harshada_kakad | i had put up this in agenda too ... | 19:11 |
| dtantsur | harshada_kakad, what's the spec link for it? | 19:11 |
| NobodyCam | harshada_kakad: ya do you a spec up? | 19:11 |
| lucasagomes | harshada_kakad, there's a spec for it? or just the bp page? | 19:11 |
| devananda | harshada_kakad: this BP was proposed after the spec-proposal deadline. I'm sorry, but it will have to wait for K. | 19:12 |
| harshada_kakad | syeap just the BP page .. | 19:12 |
| JayF | devananda: ++ | 19:12 |
| harshada_kakad | i dnt have any spec .. | 19:12 |
| devananda | harshada_kakad: and it needs a spec | 19:12 |
| devananda | rloo: would you prefer we simply dont approve any more, then close it officially on thursday? | 19:12 |
| dtantsur | harshada_kakad, please have a look at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ironic/Specs_Process | 19:12 |
| harshada_kakad | actually i am almost ready with the code cahnges ... | 19:12 |
| harshada_kakad | :( | 19:12 |
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| rloo | just looking at the proposed timeline. Aug 14 was supposed to be a spec review day and sept 4 unmerged J spec proposals must rebase on K | 19:12 |
| * NobodyCam makes note to self to watch bp's more closely | 19:12 | |
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| JayF | rloo: There are no spec proposals in the pipeline that will be merged for J that aren't already, afaict | 19:13 |
| rloo | devananda: yeah, I'd prefer not closing it officially cuz that goes against the proposed timeline. I don't know if there is someone who isn't here, that might want to push for their spec to be approved. | 19:13 |
| devananda | rloo: in retrospect, that was a mistake on my part. Alsow hat JayF just said | 19:13 |
| JayF | rloo: NobodyCam and I have worked really hard (along with others) to get the specs landed that are going to have a chance at getting in for J | 19:14 |
| devananda | rloo: as JayF said, there are more specs proposed which I think could land in J -- they are too contentious, or were proposed too late. | 19:14 |
| JayF | rloo: if you have a specific spec in mind that we should reconsider, please point it out and lets take a look at it | 19:14 |
| rloo | devananda, JayF: if that is the case, then I guess it is OK to change the date/make it official since none seem ready. | 19:14 |
| NobodyCam | devananda: we can concider the close to EOD today? | 19:14 |
| devananda | NobodyCam: sure | 19:14 |
| harshada_kakad | yeap that would really be better .. | 19:15 |
| NobodyCam | rloo: harshada_kakad: I'm happy to look at specs until eod if needed | 19:15 |
| rloo | I don't have any specs in mind, I just want to make sure that we are being fair to folks that might not be here to voice their opinion. | 19:15 |
| dtantsur | just a reminder: we're way past spec proposal deadline | 19:15 |
| devananda | #agreed spec freeze moved to EOD today, instead of EOD thursday. | 19:15 |
| NobodyCam | rloo: if its supper critical folks can ask for an execption if they are not here now | 19:16 |
| harshada_kakad | i guess in BP i have put up all the deatils ... | 19:16 |
| NobodyCam | that does not say they'll get it | 19:16 |
| NobodyCam | but... | 19:16 |
| devananda | #info None of the remaining specs proposed in time for Juno are likely to be landed anyway (they are contentious / related to discovery in some way / need to be discussed at the summit) | 19:16 |
| devananda | harshada_kakad: your proposal for seamicro is really too late in the cycle. It should be proposed once Kilo opens. | 19:17 |
| JayF | harshada_kakad: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-August/041960.html this lays out our process for getting things spec'd for K | 19:17 |
| harshada_kakad | ohh ok ..:( | 19:17 |
| JayF | harshada_kakad: And feel free to start writing code, and put it up as WIP, although we're likely to -2 until K opens | 19:17 |
| lucasagomes | +1 ^ | 19:17 |
| dtantsur | devananda, heh, we need to solve this miscomunication somehow... | 19:17 |
| NobodyCam | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-August/041960.html | 19:17 |
| JayF | harshada_kakad: I know it's no fun, we have to do that for many of our features we're using at Rackspace, and work to get them in alter :) | 19:17 |
| JayF | *later | 19:17 |
| devananda | dtantsur: I think we just did :) | 19:17 |
| harshada_kakad | cnt we do anything to go in JUNO ... | 19:17 |
| devananda | harshada_kakad: bug fixes | 19:17 |
| devananda | harshada_kakad: please come fix bugs for Juno. or write docs :) | 19:18 |
| harshada_kakad | i have really worked hard for it .. | 19:18 |
| harshada_kakad | yeap i have actually stared looking after that as well .... | 19:18 |
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| devananda | harshada_kakad: that's nice. but this is an open community of developers, with a process that we all adhere to | 19:18 |
| harshada_kakad | but it would be good if mine this BP cud go in .... | 19:18 |
| devananda | harshada_kakad: I am delighted taht you want to contribute to Ironic, and we'll all be happy to help. but it's too late for a new feature in Juno. | 19:19 |
| harshada_kakad | yeap i understand tht ... | 19:19 |
| devananda | moving on | 19:19 |
| devananda | #link https://launchpad.net/ironic/+milestone/juno-3 | 19:19 |
| dtantsur | sorry, can we leave it to open discussion? | 19:19 |
| devananda | we have A LOT still to do in the next three weeks | 19:19 |
| devananda | there are 7 BP in "needs code review" | 19:19 |
| devananda | one unknown and one "started" ? | 19:19 |
| lucasagomes | yup expect me to poke the authors in the next weeks about the status of the approved specs/bp | 19:20 |
| wanyen | I don't see uefi boot on the juno list. The spec has been approved. | 19:20 |
| devananda | yea, lucas is goign to be tracking the progress towards Juno-3 while I"m gone | 19:20 |
| devananda | wanyen: thanks. Let me fix that | 19:20 |
| wanyen | deva, thanks! | 19:20 |
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| devananda | are there any other specs approved but not relfected on the juno-3 status page? | 19:20 |
| devananda | I've tried to get them all, but ... | 19:20 |
| devananda | oh, but I haven't updated it since friday :) | 19:21 |
| Shrews | devananda: i had one for nodelocked retry | 19:21 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, the drac one confuses me... the boot management is part of a interface that was already merged I don't understand why we need a spec to actually implement one already agreed interface... but anyway, I will check with ifarkas the status of that | 19:21 |
| rameshg87 | devananda, there is one more. ilo virtual media-ipa deploy driver. | 19:21 |
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| devananda | Shrews: didn't that get completed in J2 ? | 19:22 |
| dtantsur | lucasagomes, he's on PTO, I guess will get back to it soon | 19:22 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, yup | 19:22 |
| Shrews | devananda: ah right, thats j3. nm | 19:22 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: the drac proposal that I -2'd was related to node discovery and raid configuration. I think the drac power driver is already in. | 19:22 |
| devananda | JayF: yep | 19:22 |
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| lucasagomes | JayF, yeah, the power is... I'm talking about the spec for Drac to implement the management interface | 19:22 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: do you have a link? | 19:23 |
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| devananda | wanyen, rameshg87: ilo-virtualmedia-ip and uefi-boot are now targeted | 19:23 |
| lucasagomes | JayF, which is grand, it was approved but I'm more questioning whether we needed a spec for that or not | 19:23 |
| devananda | please update the BP statuses | 19:23 |
| lucasagomes | JayF, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ironic/+spec/drac-management-driver (will get the spec link) | 19:23 |
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| mrda | I think we should clarify the *purpose* of specs - is it for new interfaces, or significant new work? That difference might account for DRAC power management. | 19:23 |
| dtantsur | lucasagomes, I remember having some discussion with Imre on it, so I guess it was helpful :) | 19:23 |
| wanyen | deva, ilo vitualmedia now has two spec. should we call them out seperately? | 19:23 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: the spec is merged | 19:23 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/ironic-specs/plain/specs/juno/drac-management-driver.rst is what the spec link goes to | 19:23 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: it's already in | 19:23 |
| lucasagomes | JayF, yup it's... | 19:24 |
| devananda | wanyen: each spec needs a separate BP on launchpad | 19:24 |
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| devananda | dtantsur: you're right -- we need to make the PROCESS more clear | 19:24 |
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| wanyen | deva, so we will put both ilo vitual edia iscsi and ipa sboth under ilo virtual media deploy driver bucket | 19:25 |
| devananda | #info we should better document and communicate the spec process (interactions with launchpad in particular) for Kilo | 19:25 |
| dtantsur | I came to an unusual conclusion that specs can be actually helpful for refactoring | 19:25 |
| dtantsur | but that's another long story :) | 19:26 |
| devananda | wanyen: every spec requires a separate blueprint on launchpad, with the same name as the spec file | 19:26 |
| rameshg87 | wanyen, we have two blueprints right now - one for ilo virtual media-iscsi and another one for ilo virtual media-ipa | 19:26 |
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| wanyen | reamesh, ok. So, my question is taht we should put both specs on teh Juno list | 19:26 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, heh bring to the open topics? sounds interesting | 19:26 |
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| devananda | so, there are a lot of blueprints (featuers) targeted to Juno3 | 19:27 |
| dtantsur | lucasagomes, maybe | 19:27 |
| wanyen | right now the juno list only listed ilo virtul media deploy driver. Shouldwe update it to reflect the new bps? | 19:27 |
| devananda | far far more than we had aimed at any other milestone in this (or the last) cycle | 19:27 |
| rameshg87 | wanyen, both the specs are now in the juno list. devananda just updated it now. | 19:27 |
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| wanyen | raemesh, ok. Tx. Sorry I didn't look at the newest list. | 19:28 |
| NobodyCam | devananda: we have more folks working on ironic this cycle too :) | 19:28 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: what's blocking the new mgmt iface BP from being "implemented" ? | 19:28 |
| devananda | NobodyCam: true :-D | 19:28 |
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| lucasagomes | devananda, tempest | 19:28 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, having tempest test to the new api was part of the spec, there's a patch up in tempest (will get the link) that still needs to be merged | 19:29 |
| lucasagomes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113276/ | 19:29 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: awesome. please comment on the whiteboard to taht effect. | 19:30 |
| lucasagomes | will do | 19:30 |
| devananda | I've updated priority on two BPs | 19:30 |
| devananda | bumped https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ironic/+spec/support-external-dhcp to LOW | 19:30 |
| devananda | bumped https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ironic/+spec/ironic-ilo-virtualmedia-driver to HIGH | 19:30 |
| devananda | are there any concerns about the current prioritization of BPs? | 19:30 |
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| JayF | Aside: Support external DHCP has code up for review already, and I'm sure Ellen would appreciate reviews if someone can spare a moment. | 19:31 |
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| jroll | ^ it's looking pretty close | 19:31 |
| NobodyCam | should we bump ilo-virtualmedia-ipa to high? | 19:31 |
| JayF | The person authoring that change on Rackspaces' side has their internship end on Friday, and it'd be very nice if we could get this merged before she leaves. | 19:32 |
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| devananda | I don't see code for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ironic/+spec/uefi-boot-for-ironic on its whiteboard (jsut a link to the spec) | 19:32 |
| devananda | rameshg87: is there code up for that yet? | 19:32 |
| rameshg87 | devananda, code is not raised for review yet for uefi | 19:33 |
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| lucasagomes | JayF, added to my todo list here, will review it tomorrow morning | 19:33 |
| JayF | Thanks lucas | 19:33 |
| devananda | rameshg87: how soon do you expect it to be ready? | 19:33 |
| wanyen | deva, the code is alomost ready. we should be able to put up on review very soon | 19:33 |
| wanyen | I met the code for uefi boot | 19:34 |
| wanyen | s/met/meant | 19:34 |
| devananda | wanyen: thanks. at this point, there are 3 weeks to land it. please post the code soon | 19:34 |
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| wanyen | dev, will do. | 19:34 |
| wanyen | s/dev/deva | 19:34 |
| devananda | ok -- any last minute questions on the plan for J3 befoer we move on? | 19:35 |
| devananda | we're past the midpoint and still have all the subteam reports | 19:35 |
| NobodyCam | deva with you gone .. at what point should we bump blueprints with no code? or no progress? | 19:35 |
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| devananda | don't bump them | 19:36 |
| devananda | nag the owners | 19:36 |
| NobodyCam | ack | 19:36 |
| devananda | I'll get back and do a sanity check with lucas on the progress | 19:36 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 19:36 |
| devananda | assuming ironic still works, I'll tag Juno3 and start the feature freeze | 19:36 |
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| JayF | What about any remaining open specs? At the end of the day -2 them and welcome them to resubmit when K opens? | 19:37 |
| devananda | anything that was really close can apply for a FFE at that point | 19:37 |
| jroll | heh | 19:37 |
| devananda | JayF: yep. and FFE's | 19:37 |
| jroll | "assuming ironic still works" | 19:37 |
| * jroll breaks everything | 19:37 | |
| dtantsur | I like it too ^^^ | 19:37 |
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| devananda | by that i mean, like, somejhow if our gate is broken (or all of openstacks' gate is broken) then I won't, you know, tag anything | 19:37 |
| * NobodyCam pokes jroll and dtantsur with a stick :-p | 19:37 | |
| dtantsur | :) | 19:38 |
| devananda | ok, moving on :) | 19:38 |
| devananda | #topic subteam status reports | 19:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "subteam status reports (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:38 | |
| devananda | adam_g: hi! | 19:38 |
| adam_g | hey! | 19:38 |
| devananda | adam_g: you've done some awesome things with tempest lately - -can you (link to a) summary? | 19:38 |
| adam_g | massive summary of all CI related stuff @ https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicCI | 19:38 |
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| NobodyCam | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicCI | 19:39 |
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| adam_g | two of the most urgent topics is grenade testing and getting tempest smoke tests passing, grenade is dependent on the latter | 19:39 |
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| adam_g | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:ironic_grenade,n,z | 19:39 |
| adam_g | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:ironic_tempest,n,z | 19:39 |
| devananda | ooh, and thanks for using topics :) | 19:39 |
| adam_g | i think the majority of the grenade stuff is up on gerrit and ready for review, there may be some related work elsewhere to get stuff in the gate and actually passing | 19:40 |
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| adam_g | Shrews has been picking up the final loose ends up on the tempest front and i believe he's got some final patches up as well | 19:40 |
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| adam_g | some of the large patch queue has started to land, i think others will probably be blocked until sdague is back from vacation next week | 19:40 |
| adam_g | but im hoping to have most of it flushed through before then, so we can work with him and infra in getting this stuff enabled in the gate | 19:41 |
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| devananda | yea. we need both of those in place fairly soon | 19:41 |
| JayF | If anyone has pull with any of the devstack folks, I know IPA has two patches outstanding to openstack-dev/devstack for IPA devstack support to land. Which works from my testing and jroll's testing | 19:41 |
| adam_g | devananda, by feature freeze, right? | 19:41 |
| devananda | noav will probably grant us a FFE for the migration tests | 19:41 |
| JayF | Then the reviews are already up to allow IPA to test as well | 19:41 |
| lucasagomes | yup I got the iPXE patch on devstack as well | 19:41 |
| devananda | but only if it looks REALLY close to done at that point | 19:41 |
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| lucasagomes | jroll, btw, I updated the iPXE patch to workaround that cleanup/apache error | 19:42 |
| lucasagomes | in case u wanna try it again | 19:42 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: oh, nice, I'll check that out again | 19:42 |
| NobodyCam | lucasagomes: link to ipxe patch | 19:42 |
| adam_g | devananda, ack. | 19:42 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: was that fix in the devstack patch or? | 19:42 |
| lucasagomes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99677/ | 19:42 |
| NobodyCam | TY | 19:42 |
| jroll | ok, cool | 19:43 |
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| adam_g | its worth noting that we wont be able to enable parallel tempest testing until a new version of eventlet is released upstream, to address https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/1321787. we will probably just need to keep it smoke-serial until that is released, and then flip the switch once the new version is available on the slaves | 19:43 |
| devananda | dtantsur: any big news on bugs? if not, I'd like to skip this time as we need to focus on features for the next 3 weeks. | 19:43 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1321787 in tripleo "Paramiko does not properly work with eventlet concurrency" [High,Triaged] | 19:43 |
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| dtantsur | Open: 133 (+2). 8 new (+1), 35 in progress (-1), 0 critical, 15 high (+1) and 8 incomplete (-1) | 19:43 |
| jroll | JayF: fyi it seems like most of devstack-core is on vacation :( | 19:43 |
| dtantsur | that's it, I still need help triaging some bugs | 19:43 |
| dtantsur | that require deeper knowledge of nova | 19:44 |
| dtantsur | that's all from me | 19:44 |
| NobodyCam | dtantsur: please feel free to ping /me i'm happy to help | 19:44 |
| devananda | dtantsur: thanks. feel free to poke me on IRC if there are specific bugs that you want eyes on. I used to be nova-core, so I can probably help with those | 19:44 |
| devananda | dtantsur: or poke comstud - he knows much more about nova than I do :) | 19:44 |
| dtantsur | ack, thanks! | 19:44 |
| jroll | yes, give everything to comstud :P | 19:45 |
| comstud | wat | 19:45 |
| devananda | adam_g: thanks! I hope sdague is understanding that there are things outside of our control that prevent the tempest parallel tests | 19:45 |
| devananda | jroll: any quick updates on IPA? | 19:45 |
| comstud | dtantsur: ya, just let me know what you need to know about nova | 19:45 |
| JayF | devananda: jroll is distracted | 19:46 |
| jroll | devananda: hi! | 19:46 |
| JayF | devananda: in his place, I'll say | 19:46 |
| jroll | I'll say what JayF was going to say :P | 19:46 |
| * JayF upstaged | 19:46 | |
| devananda | lol | 19:46 |
| dtantsur | :) | 19:46 |
| jroll | our main priority this week is getting check jobs in for the IPA driver | 19:46 |
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| NobodyCam | will the reall jroll please stand up | 19:46 |
| NobodyCam | lol | 19:46 |
| jroll | this email outlines most of tht work: http://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg31525.html | 19:46 |
| jroll | NobodyCam: lolol | 19:46 |
| devananda | jroll: good stuff. Oh, that should have also tagged [QA] on there | 19:47 |
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| NobodyCam | #link http://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg31525.html | 19:47 |
| jroll | gah, yeah :| | 19:47 |
| devananda | you may need to poke them when theyre all back from vacation too :p | 19:47 |
| jroll | so, it seems most of devstack-core is on vacation until tuesday | 19:47 |
| jroll | yeah :P | 19:47 |
| devananda | also, I'm going to suggest that perhaps IPA testing stops at check for now, so we don't overcomplicate things while merging things with Nova | 19:48 |
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| devananda | GheRivero: hi! any updates on Oslo? | 19:48 |
| GheRivero | oslo.utils landed in ironic last week and the oslo.incubator modules were also updated. | 19:48 |
| devananda | \o/ | 19:48 |
| JayF | devananda: I strongly disagree, but we can talk about that outside of the meeting. | 19:48 |
| devananda | #info oslo.utils landed in ironic last week and the oslo.incubator modules were also updated. | 19:49 |
| GheRivero | the only missing point is updating the policy mechanish https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97731/ | 19:49 |
| GheRivero | nothing more in the short term | 19:49 |
| devananda | GheRivero: I realized we are also not testing DB migrations in our gate still :( | 19:49 |
| GheRivero | yes i see that this weekend. working on that | 19:49 |
| devananda | thanks much | 19:49 |
| JayF | GheRivero: question for you; should we (in IPA) be doing occassional oslo.incubator syncs? Is that something you should do? Does it matter? | 19:50 |
| NobodyCam | *10 minute bell* | 19:50 |
| GheRivero | i hope to have something earlier this week | 19:50 |
| devananda | mrda: hi! you (we) are up :) | 19:50 |
| mrda | hey | 19:50 |
| GheRivero | JayF: I'll take a look to that, | 19:50 |
| JayF | GheRivero: thanks! | 19:50 |
| mrda | So the 10,000 foot view is that the scheduler has merged into Nova | 19:50 |
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| mrda | and we're onto the driver proper | 19:50 |
| NobodyCam | Nice!!! | 19:50 |
| mrda | the driver is in 5 chunks (starting with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111223) | 19:51 |
| mrda | and the first one is ready to go. | 19:51 |
| mrda | So I've been out for a week, getting back up to speed just as Deva disappears | 19:51 |
| devananda | mrda: I merged a few patches from ironic into those 5 chunks last week, andthere are a few more that we may want to merge | 19:51 |
| devananda | mrda: all my notes are on the whitebaord | 19:51 |
| devananda | also, dan has comments outstanding on chunk 3 | 19:52 |
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| mrda | that's about it really - except that we need quick turnarounds when we propose ironic patches as we don't have long | 19:52 |
| devananda | #info DO NOT approve changes to ironic/nova/* without coordinating with mrda or devananda | 19:52 |
| mrda | nova will be strick on timelines, so we need all of these done by J3 | 19:52 |
| devananda | also that ^ | 19:52 |
| mrda | and thanks Deva for your outstanding work over the last week while I was on leave :) | 19:53 |
| wanyen | deva, what's teh plan for fixing the instance info gor ilo & ipa driver? | 19:53 |
| lucasagomes | mrda, there's a patch from dan that you +1, so I +2 it today assuming you have seem that | 19:53 |
| devananda | if there are *critical* fixes for the ironic/nova/* code, please get them worked out *now* | 19:53 |
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| lucasagomes | mrda, this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113047/ | 19:53 |
| mrda | lucasagomes: I'll check later (not awake yet) | 19:53 |
| devananda | the cost of changing these 5 chunks, in human time, is quite high | 19:54 |
| lucasagomes | awesome, ok | 19:54 |
| mrda | lucasagomes: but thanks | 19:54 |
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| devananda | it's about 5x the time to update a simple patch | 19:54 |
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| devananda | and I''ve given mrda full permission to poke all of you with sharp objects if you go changing any code in the nova driver (or its unit tests) | 19:54 |
| mrda | \o/ | 19:54 |
| devananda | wanyen: it's fixed | 19:55 |
| NobodyCam | *5* minute bell | 19:55 |
| wanyen | deva, great! thanks! | 19:55 |
| devananda | wanyen: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/1353631 | 19:55 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1353631 in ironic "adding a new driver requires changing patcher.py" [Medium,Fix committed] | 19:55 |
| devananda | adam_g: the migration code -- has it been proposed to ironic now? | 19:55 |
| adam_g | oh yes! | 19:55 |
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| adam_g | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112402/ | 19:56 |
| adam_g | could use some review | 19:56 |
| devananda | that should be landed as a prereq to the grenade tests too, right? | 19:56 |
| devananda | cool, thanks | 19:56 |
| adam_g | devananda, yeah, totally forgot to mention | 19:56 |
| devananda | great | 19:56 |
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| devananda | thanks everyone for the subteam reports -- great progress on doing all the things! | 19:57 |
| devananda | #topic Open Discussion | 19:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:57 | |
| devananda | 3 minutes left | 19:57 |
| NobodyCam | who added https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111232/ | 19:57 |
| devananda | there's a question on refactoring iscsi & pxe | 19:57 |
| devananda | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111232/ | 19:57 |
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| NobodyCam | :) | 19:57 |
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| devananda | it's a direction we want to go in Kilo. this doen't go all the way. is it even helpful? I dunno. | 19:58 |
| wanyen | we like to use ipmitool sendsensordat ato ceilometer and remote console inilo driver. can we just file a bug to for the mix and match fucntions? | 19:58 |
| devananda | rameshg87_: ^ | 19:58 |
| dtantsur | I still think the split is useful as it is | 19:58 |
| harshada_kakad | hey if i submit spec today EOD can there be cahnce for approval? | 19:58 |
| lucasagomes | this has to deal with the new boot interface that we want to have for kilo? | 19:58 |
| NobodyCam | i'd like more time to make sure we do the split right. so I'm not sold that rushing it in J is worth while | 19:59 |
| devananda | harshada_kakad: no. sorry. I already explained that the PROPOSAL DEADLINE has passed several weeks ago. | 19:59 |
| harshada_kakad | ok | 19:59 |
| dtantsur | harshada_kakad, I'm sorry, it's very unlikely. For many of us it's already EOD and we're past proposal deadline | 19:59 |
| harshada_kakad | :( | 19:59 |
| harshada_kakad | ok | 19:59 |
| rameshg87_ | devananda, NobodyCam, it doesn't go all the way to separate interfaces right now. | 19:59 |
| lucasagomes | yeah, the pxe driver is bloated and splitting may be good, just wondering how the refactor could affect ongoing work for the specs (which should be priorized) | 19:59 |
| devananda | harshada_kakad: in the future, please consider filing the proposal before implementing the code in private | 20:00 |
| devananda | harshada_kakad: that will help you to align with our development process, and help us to be aware of the work you're doing so that tohers don't duplicate it | 20:00 |
| harshada_kakad | yeap .. | 20:00 |
| NobodyCam | beep. thats time | 20:00 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: right -- that's a VERY good point | 20:00 |
| harshada_kakad | yes sure | 20:00 |
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| rameshg87_ | devananda, NobodyCam, but helps to split up the code and make it available for ilo driver for use for now. we can have it go in the separate boot and deploy interfaces in K. | 20:00 |
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| devananda | #info concern that https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111232/ may adversely impact work on prioritized specs for Juno3. perhaps bump to after? | 20:01 |
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| NobodyCam | continue in channel? | 20:01 |
| devananda | cheers -- thanks everyone for another great meeting :) | 20:01 |
| dtantsur | devananda, well, we can just give it low prioirty :) | 20:01 |
| devananda | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| NobodyCam | thank you all :) | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 11 20:01:30 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| mrda | thanks! | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2014/ironic.2014-08-11-19.01.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2014/ironic.2014-08-11-19.01.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2014/ironic.2014-08-11-19.01.log.html | 20:01 |
| JayF | ty | 20:01 |
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| jroll | thanks y'all | 20:01 |
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| mestery | hi | 20:59 |
| blogan | hi | 20:59 |
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| fawadkhaliq | hello! | 20:59 |
| banix | hi | 20:59 |
| armax | hi | 20:59 |
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| beagles | `o | 20:59 |
| blogan | \o/ | 20:59 |
| Sukhdev | hello | 20:59 |
| dougwig | hiya | 20:59 |
| yamamoto | hi | 20:59 |
| sc68cal | hi | 20:59 |
| rkukura | hi | 20:59 |
| carl_baldwin | hi | 20:59 |
| skath | o/ | 20:59 |
| nati_ueno | hi | 20:59 |
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| markmcclain | hi | 21:00 |
| pcm_ | hi | 21:00 |
| praneet | hi | 21:00 |
| reed | o/ | 21:00 |
| rudrarugge | hi | 21:00 |
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| salv-orlando | aloha | 21:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | hi | 21:00 |
| mestery | OK, lets get started. | 21:00 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 11 21:00:42 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 21:00 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 21:00 |
| mestery | I expect this to be a boring meeting ... | 21:00 |
| dougwig | lol | 21:01 |
| mestery | #topic Announcements | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:01 | |
| emagana | hola! | 21:01 |
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| * salv-orlando bored already | 21:01 | |
| mestery | I'm sure people have forgotten, but Juno-3 is approaching fast | 21:01 |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/juno-3 | 21:01 |
| mestery | Please spend some time reviewing things for Juno-3. | 21:01 |
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| mestery | I expect a nice gate crush the closer we get to both FPF and FF. | 21:01 |
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| mestery | Also, just a note that Neutron policies are documented on the wiki | 21:02 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NeutronPolicies | 21:02 |
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| mestery | And one final announcment from the Ryu team: | 21:02 |
| mestery | #info the Ryu plugin is being deprecated in Juno | 21:02 |
| mestery | #info Juno is the last release to support Ryu plugin | 21:02 |
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| mestery | #info The Ryu team will be focusing on the ofagent going forward | 21:02 |
| mestery | Any other announcements? | 21:02 |
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| reed | what's the impact on users of the Ryu plugin? | 21:02 |
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| mestery | reed: There is no upgrade provided by the ryu team per their notes | 21:03 |
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| reed | cool, thanks | 21:03 |
| mestery | reed: It seems it will be a manual move to ML2+ofagent | 21:03 |
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| yamamoto | i plan to write some text to document how to transit to eg. ofagent | 21:03 |
| mestery | yamamoto: Thanks! | 21:03 |
| emagana | yamamoto: we will need to update some guides | 21:04 |
| emagana | yamamoto: I will touch based with you offline | 21:04 |
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| yamamoto | emagana: thank you | 21:04 |
| mestery | #action emagana to work with yamamoto offline on doc updates for ryu plugin deprecation. | 21:04 |
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| mestery | Thanks emagana! | 21:04 |
| mestery | #topic Bugs | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:05 | |
| mestery | enikanorov mentioned that we have some new bugs which are due to the DVR merge, and that he and armax are on these. | 21:05 |
| mestery | armax: Any particular links you want to share at this slot? | 21:05 |
| armax | mestery, enikanorov: these seem to cause log noise more than anything ele | 21:05 |
| armax | *else | 21:05 |
| mestery | armax: OK, that's less serious then. :) | 21:05 |
| armax | mestery: still treating them seriously, working on them :) | 21:06 |
| mestery | armax: ++ | 21:06 |
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| armax | mestery: but as far as I can tell, no major gate outage or anything like that | 21:06 |
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| mestery | armax: That echoed enikanorov's thoughts as well, thanks! | 21:06 |
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| mestery | #topic Team Discussion Topics | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Team Discussion Topics (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:07 | |
| mestery | First item is about rotating the team meeting time. | 21:07 |
| mestery | I think marun proposed this to the agenda. | 21:07 |
| marun | We discussed this at summit and it got lost | 21:07 |
| mestery | Thoughts from people on a rotating meeting? | 21:07 |
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| mestery | marun: ++ | 21:07 |
| nati_ueno | ++ | 21:07 |
| ajo_ | that'd be nice, it's very late here ;) | 21:08 |
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| mestery | This ultimately ties into another item which I doubt we'll get to today (sub-team culling and life cycle management, and how this meeting is run). | 21:08 |
| marun | Ideally we would rotate the time between two slots so that folks in non-NA timezones would have an easier time participating | 21:08 |
| mestery | But we've only got 52 minutes left in this meeting ... | 21:08 |
| marun | Tempest already does this, btw | 21:08 |
| markmcclain | ceilometer and nova too | 21:08 |
| emagana | +1 let's do it! | 21:09 |
| reed | yeah, I think it's fairly well accepted practice in other teams, too | 21:09 |
| mestery | I'll take an action to take care of setting this up then. | 21:09 |
| marun | mestery: +1 | 21:09 |
| mestery | #action mestery to setup rotating neutron team meeting schedule | 21:09 |
| mestery | I'll start a thread on the mailer with some proposed time slots. Fair? | 21:09 |
| markmcclain | the rotation would be good… I think we should implement starting in Sept which is after FF | 21:09 |
| marun | fair to me | 21:09 |
| pcm_ | +1 | 21:10 |
| mestery | markmcclain: It may take us long to come to an agreement on the mailer. | 21:10 |
| rudrarugge | +1 | 21:10 |
| mestery | ;) | 21:10 |
| ajo_ | +1 | 21:10 |
| carl_baldwin | +1 | 21:10 |
| amotoki | +1 | 21:10 |
| markmcclain | haha | 21:10 |
| mestery | OK, good, agreement! | 21:10 |
| ArxCruz | krtaylor: hey, sorry, I was finishing things for the travel | 21:10 |
| gus | +1 (although I know the other time is going to end up worse for me ;) | 21:10 |
| Sukhdev | +1 - suggest we do the rotations after Juno | 21:11 |
| mestery | OK, for the next topic, reed has kindly volunteered to run this portion of the meeting around the GBP Topic, how we got here, and how not to get here again in the future. | 21:11 |
| mestery | #chair reed | 21:11 |
| openstack | Current chairs: mestery reed | 21:11 |
| mestery | reed: The floor is yours! | 21:11 |
| reed | yeah! the fun part :) | 21:11 |
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| * dougwig makes popcorn. | 21:12 | |
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| * sc68cal digs a foxhole | 21:12 | |
| reed | anyone wants to share their thoughts on how we got at this point? | 21:12 |
| mestery | hahahahahaha | 21:12 |
| markmcclain | reed: I'll start :) | 21:13 |
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| reed | great, thanks markmcclain, let's start | 21:13 |
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| mscohen | reed: curious what you mean by that? For GBP, we have been working on this for some time. We had a session in Atlanta on this and proposed a blueprint and have been running weekly meetings on the topic. | 21:14 |
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| alagalah_ | mscohen: +1 | 21:14 |
| reed | what I mean is framing the current status of the discussion around GBP | 21:14 |
| markmcclain | mscohen: that's exactly what reed wants to establish how we got here | 21:14 |
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| rkukura | Not sure we’d even get agreement on where we are. | 21:15 |
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| reed | in Atlanta a working group was established, right? and the group met weekly | 21:15 |
| * mestery notes if we can't agree on where we are, we're bound to get to this exact (unknown) spot again soon. | 21:15 | |
| reed | progressing with code, sending patches in | 21:15 |
| s3wong | reed: actually in Hong Kong a working group was established | 21:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: this actually started in HK | 21:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the blueprint was registeted in launchpad on oct 24th 2013 | 21:16 |
| reed | who/what triggered the effort? | 21:16 |
| markmcclain | reed: so we've ended up at this point because for the most part while the group based policy team has been iterating in the open for some time there has been a large contingent of the core largely disengaged from the discussion | 21:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | it was followed up with a session in the HK summit in november 2013 | 21:16 |
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| markmcclain | the reasons for disengagement are varied among the reviewers | 21:16 |
| banix | markmcclain: Yes that is why we are here. Agree. | 21:17 |
| ivar-lazzaro | markmcclain: who was disengaged exactly? | 21:17 |
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| reed | SumitNaiksatam, just to be super clear: the discussion was at the *Design* summit, in HK and Atlanta, right ? | 21:17 |
| markmcclain | reed: yes this has come up twice | 21:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: yes, it started during that summit | 21:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: actually the blueprint was registered priror to the summit | 21:17 |
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| mestery | reed: Yes, in HK and Atlanta. | 21:18 |
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| reed | SumitNaiksatam, what sparked the discussions? user requests? product management? personal interests? other? | 21:18 |
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| salv-orlando | I feel like in Law & order | 21:18 |
| salv-orlando | I see a prosecutor, but I see no judge | 21:18 |
| markmcclain | reed: all three | 21:18 |
| emagana | reed: I got the feeling this is going to be a long discussion and there are other topics to cover, can you establish a limit on the time invested in this discussion? | 21:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain: i can list the following cores be engaged: markmcclain, rkukura, mestery, oleg, nati_ueno, armax emagana who have been giving feedback on the patches | 21:19 |
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| markmcclain | SumitNaiksatam: the level of engagement is not the same across | 21:19 |
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| emagana | salv-orlando: +1 | 21:19 |
| reed | emagana, I can stop any time and chase you all individually :) | 21:19 |
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| blogan | is it a requirement that most cores are engaged for something of this magnitude get merged? | 21:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain: agreed but that is because there is a pending -2 on the patch | 21:19 |
| salv-orlando | reed as long as you’re not chasing me with a stick, it’s fine! | 21:19 |
| mscohen | we have been investigating ways of creating more flexible abstractions for describing network resources. that was the spark behind this. | 21:19 |
| a_le | emagana: there should be a timelimit on -2's with no follow up after the issues are addressed!!! | 21:19 |
| emagana | reed: not a bad idea... :-) | 21:19 |
| mestery | blogan: Fair question. | 21:19 |
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| markmcclain | blogan: yes | 21:20 |
| blogan | mestery: that also bring up the question of how magnitude is measured | 21:20 |
| reed | so is there consensus that parts of the GBP efforts were done in parallel and without enough interaction with core development? | 21:20 |
| markmcclain | because this particular feature is sizeable | 21:20 |
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| reed | salv-orlando, this is not the inquisition | 21:20 |
| emagana | a_le: not sure what you mean. | 21:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: i would say a strong no to your question | 21:21 |
| salv-orlando | reed: if it were we were probably not using internet! | 21:21 |
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| marun | The group policy team has been very diligent about following the policies and procedures that are defined for the Neutron project. | 21:21 |
| marun | Despite this, the initiative has remained deeply divisive, as evidenced by the the traffic on the mailing list this past week. | 21:21 |
| markmcclain | marun: that is mostly true | 21:22 |
| marun | I think this highlights the importance of the non-technical aspects of contributing to an open source project like Neutron. It's not enough to discuss and implement. | 21:22 |
| mestery | marun: good summary | 21:22 |
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| reed | marun, SumitNaiksatam: why do you think it's such a hot topic? | 21:22 |
| mscohen | what is so divisive about it? | 21:22 |
| reed | or divisive, as you say? | 21:22 |
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| marun | The importance of securing broad consensus on potentially contentious work cannot be understated. | 21:22 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | reed: its definitely a hot topic from a technical perspective | 21:22 |
| marun | And I think it's clear that such consensus has not yet been achieved for the policy effort. | 21:22 |
| markmcclain | reed: there are still pockets of the community that don't agree with the approach for a variety of reasons | 21:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: other than that i only see a set of vocal people talking against it | 21:22 |
| reed | marun, indeed, I think it's pretty clear | 21:23 |
| markmcclain | my -2 reflects that disagreement that I've heard from many all summer | 21:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: why do you say that its pretty clear? | 21:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay lets take the case of the -2 | 21:23 |
| reed | so we got to this point because despite two summits and lots of meetings, online, offline, etc, there is still no consensus on the features? | 21:23 |
| banix | so I think we failed as a community (GBP group and the rest) to openly discuss the disagreements | 21:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the -2 was initially put since there was no data path patch | 21:23 |
| marun | 778897 | 21:24 |
| a_le | markmcclain: you have never mentioned that before. | 21:24 |
| a_le | the -2 never mentioned any disagreement you ever heard | 21:24 |
| ivar-lazzaro | SumitNaiksatam: exactly, that was the -2 reason originally :) | 21:24 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | at that point the data path patch was WIP | 21:24 |
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| marun | I think it's important to separate discussion of procedural issues from the lack of consensus. | 21:25 |
| markmcclain | banix: agreed someone in another project once said we are much better at using procedures to get what we want than having the hard discussions we have to have to have from time to time | 21:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and the data path patch was shortly pushed upstream shortly after the -2 was posted (patch was pushed by rkukura) | 21:25 |
| reed | banix, interesting... why do you think we failed at discussing the disagreement? | 21:25 |
| salv-orlando | I made one fundamental complaint back in HK - that this should have been proposed as a new tenant API. This went largely ignored, and so I thought I was wrong after all. Then from what I read last week, it seems to me that several groupo policy contributor are actually seeing it as a new api with different abstractions. | 21:25 |
| rkukura | The people actively working on the feature, which includes two cores, did reach consensus. That consensus was described in the spec that was reviewed and approved. | 21:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: i think we are going in circles here | 21:25 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | reed: we dont even know what the diagreement is about | 21:26 |
| salv-orlando | Which to me is not consistent with the impleentation as a service plugin, despite the mapping effort. So I would like to reconsider that. But at the same time I don’t want to be slapped in the face for beeing too late. | 21:26 |
| nati_ueno | salv-orlando: which one? | 21:26 |
| markmcclain | rkukura: the consensus was only reached within the GPB team | 21:26 |
| salv-orlando | I have been slapped already once. | 21:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: can i speak for a couple of minutes? | 21:26 |
| reed | SumitNaiksatam, please | 21:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: its a request | 21:26 |
| marun | rkukura: That consensus does not appear to have been broad enough, or the mailing list threads wouldn't have spanned 100+ posts. | 21:26 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok let me start from the beginning | 21:26 |
| banix | reed, salv-orlando: it would have been wonderful to have your ideas discussed in our group meetings; I tried to the extent I could to bring in other cores to our discussions but did not succeed; | 21:27 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i mentioned that the bp was registered in launchpad on oct 24th 2013 | 21:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | it was discussed during the HK summit in nov 2013 | 21:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | after that we had weekly IRC meetings on this topic for the entire H cycle | 21:27 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | during this whole time a google doc was published in the community | 21:27 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | and it was worked on collaboratively by several people | 21:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so this went on for the the whole of the H cycel | 21:28 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | again we had weekly IRC meetings | 21:28 |
| marun | banix: That's an aspect of contribution - it's not enough to submit patches. It's the responsibility of a given initiative to secure the necessary support to have it proceed. If at first you don't succeed - try a different path? | 21:28 |
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| reed | SumitNaiksatam, I get it, it looks to me like the GBP team did apparently everything right, all the things that I suggest teams to do when they want to propose large new features | 21:28 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | reed: there is some more | 21:28 |
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| reed | and yet, something failed here and I'd like to get to the root cause | 21:28 |
| reed | SumitNaiksatam, please continue | 21:29 |
| salv-orlando | banix: it’s pretty much my fault. Since the havana release I’ve stopped working on all “new” stuff because work was needed first and foremost to make neutron a decent product. So I’ve lost contact with group policy, load balancing, firewall, etc. | 21:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | towards the end of the H cycle the team was told to create a PoC to validate | 21:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the concept | 21:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the team did this | 21:29 |
| marun | …everything right, barring actually securing sufficient trust and goodwill from the community for their efforts. | 21:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | iterating in a public repository | 21:29 |
| marun | But that's not on the contribution checklist, so it's easy enough to ignore. | 21:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we presented this PoC in the Atlanta summit | 21:30 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | also note that this PoC was not an individual effort | 21:30 |
| marun | You're describing what you've done, and I accept everything you say. | 21:30 |
| markmcclain | I don't think anyone disputes you tried to make this open | 21:30 |
| marun | It doesn't mean you have achieved the outcome desired, though. :( | 21:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | there were about 10 or more people from different organizations participating | 21:30 |
| banix | marun, understand now; my assumption (which now i know was incorrect) was that if no objection is raised and then the spec is approved it means even if there is some diasagreements they are not serious in nature; That is the aspect we need to work on for this and any other initiative in coming cycles | 21:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | then during the ATL summit this was presented in a design summit session, and also in the conference session | 21:30 |
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| salv-orlando | Would you agree on this short summary: a large chunk of the community works on something new for a long time. The process is followed. 4 core dev review the specification, 3 approve it. Other devs, which ignored the specification and did not complain at the time, now have cold feet. | 21:31 |
| marun | banix: The approval of a spec was never intended as a commitment to accept a feature. | 21:31 |
| rkukura | banix: +1 | 21:31 |
| reed | marun, that's definitely something to keep in mind (the lack of a point on the checklist) | 21:31 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | we were provided feedback during the summit session, which we incorporate in the patches and presented the first patch on May 26th | 21:31 |
| marun | banix: It is intended to indicate that, to the best of our knowledge, we would like work to proceed. | 21:31 |
| salv-orlando | what to do? Ignore people with cold feet and tell them they had their time to talk? | 21:31 |
| reed | salv-orlando, looks like a fair assessment to me, from what I understand | 21:31 |
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| marun | banix: It doesn't preclude a feature being bumped for any number of reasons. | 21:32 |
| salv-orlando | reed: I’m just trying to avoid the conversation from getting sidestepped into details ;) | 21:32 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: good synopsis | 21:32 |
| tmc3inphilly | mestery, do the cores meet on a regular caidence to discuss all of the WIP? | 21:32 |
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| banix | marun: so does it make any sense if we have different categories of specs …. | 21:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | after reviews between May 26th and July 2nd, during which several comments were provided, a -2 was put on the patch | 21:32 |
| marun | banix: I think we need to clarify the spec documentation so that the expectation is in line with our intentions. | 21:32 |
| salv-orlando | does our current “law” tell how to behave in this case? | 21:32 |
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| mestery | tmc3inphilly: Usually at our weekly "core only" meetings at the clubhouse, yes. | 21:32 |
| mestery | tmc3inphilly: I jest, no, we do not. | 21:32 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | the first time we heard back after july 2nd was on Aug 4th | 21:33 |
| reed | marun, bumping something like this so late may require building a strong case, because this sort of issue can make/break the collaboration on OpenStack | 21:33 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | when this erupted it where we are now | 21:33 |
| marun | I think there is something else in the mix, though. | 21:33 |
| markmcclain | SumitNaiksatam: I spent a good deal of time talking to those with reservations | 21:33 |
| ivar-lazzaro | salv-orlando: I think the solution to this is understanding how 'complaints' late in the process should be addressed in a first place | 21:33 |
| marun | The fact that up until now we have not had a good procedure for evolving new APIs. | 21:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain: why did these discussions have to happen in private? | 21:33 |
| markmcclain | marun: +100 | 21:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain: the patches were in gerrit | 21:33 |
| reed | I think there are 2 issues: how we solve the immediate GBP problem (merge in trunk, out of trunk, if at all...) and how we deal with future discussions like this | 21:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain: why werernt the reservations stated in gerrit? | 21:34 |
| rkukura | Why can’t all these people with reservations state their reservations in public? | 21:34 |
| markmcclain | SumitNaiksatam: they were private because several folks asked them to be | 21:34 |
| marun | Group based policy is a new API, and putting it into the tree in the same way that lbaas, vnpaas and fwaas invites the same problems we had with those efforts in terms of API quality | 21:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain: what is that supposed to mean? | 21:34 |
| gus | captain obvious: as the reviewer pool increases, it will be increasingly impossible to get 100% agreement. | 21:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: that is an unsubstantiated claim | 21:34 |
| markmcclain | rkukura: some felt they were ignored and told their input was not valid because they had months that shoudl have done it earlier | 21:34 |
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| marun | SumitNaiksatam: Uh | 21:34 |
| markmcclain | that is a something I've heard from many folks | 21:34 |
| reed | until now we used "lazy consensus", not 100% agreement | 21:35 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: Given how many people tell me it's crap, I don't think its as unsubstantiated as you seem to think. | 21:35 |
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| gus | .. so whatever the process is going forwards, it can't rely on 100% agreement in order to make progress. | 21:35 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: And if you are blind to those quality issues, I'm not sure I trust you to vet group policy's API as stable. | 21:35 |
| tmc3inphilly | mestery seems like it would make sense for the cores to meet regularly to discuss items up for review so that there is a core consensus | 21:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: so here we are in the situation where its claimed that reservations were present, but they could not express them - is this how the community works? | 21:35 |
| salv-orlando | SumitNaiksatam, marun: what metrics do we have to measure quality? | 21:35 |
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| marun | SumitNaiksatam: Allowing the API to mature would seem a reasonable middle path, so that iteration can occur before stabilization. | 21:35 |
| markmcclain | tmc3inphilly: we do here everyone week | 21:36 |
| salv-orlando | specifically gro group policy | 21:36 |
| reed | SumitNaiksatam, not sure I understand the question, can you rephrase it please? | 21:36 |
| marun | salv-orlando: right now, people complaining :) | 21:36 |
| s3wong | reed: 100% agreement is a very difficult requirement to enforce... | 21:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: and a year long effort is being blocked now on the basis of things which were never said or commented! | 21:36 |
| a_le | markmcclain: if you hear people have reservations you should encourage them to speak for themselves and voice their reservations in public | 21:36 |
| ivar-lazzaro | SumitNaiksatam: +1 | 21:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: sure | 21:36 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: You may notice the effort is stalled. | 21:36 |
| salv-orlando | but I guess we have tests passing and jobs ready to be pushed for CI? | 21:36 |
| reed | SumitNaiksatam, yep, it feels unfair and that's why we're having this conversation | 21:36 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | reed: the claim here is that somehow there is this huge section of the community which was against this effort but could not express it (for whatever reason) - and they relied on markmcclain to put a -2 and provided him feedback to preserve the -2 for the time from july 2 to aug 4th | 21:37 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: I think we have lots of lessons to learn from this experience, but I don | 21:37 |
| reed | I think we have a clear view of why/ho we got here... how to move forward? | 21:37 |
| a_le | +1 - so here we are in the situation where its claimed that reservations were present, but they could not express them - is this how the community works? | 21:37 |
| markmcclain | a_le: I encourage them to talk, but some folks were afraid to step out front of this one for fear of retribution | 21:37 |
| salv-orlando | marun, SumitNaiksatam: regarding quality, I think we have some sort of automated testing to verify it? Don’t we? | 21:37 |
| marun | salv-orlando: there is no substitute for user feedback | 21:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: so based on that assertion we are supposed to push this effort | 21:37 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | reed: so my question was - is this how the community is supposed to work? | 21:38 |
| salv-orlando | marun: If users are like me, there’s nothing to trust in it | 21:38 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | reed: most of all - is this the expectation for the cores? | 21:38 |
| salv-orlando | and I honeslty have realized most users are like me - therefore no trust anymore to user feedback and any form of anedoctal evidence | 21:38 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: You're part of this community. It's built on trust and relationships at least as much as policy and procedure. | 21:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | for -> from | 21:38 |
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| ivar-lazzaro | marun: what about user feedback who want this to be in tree? (which in the ML seems to be the largest part btw) | 21:38 |
| salv-orlando | and even if seems like I’m joking, I’m serious here. | 21:38 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: If it's not working the way you want it, we welcome your efforts to make it more effective. | 21:38 |
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| marun | SumitNaiksatam: You have to understand why it works the way it does, though. It's not enough to claim 'foul!' | 21:39 |
| reed | SumitNaiksatam, looking at the numbers of the 'community' I think this sort of friction is normal and to be expected, at this size (we're a lot better than most other collaborations) | 21:39 |
| * mestery can't tell when salv-orlando is joking anymore. | 21:39 | |
| reed | how do we get out of the lock? | 21:39 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: the nice aspect of being a psychotic jester ;) | 21:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: i fully accept that | 21:39 |
| banix | mestery: salv-orlando is always “not joking” :) | 21:40 |
| marun | ivar-lazzaro: I've seen the group policy team accept any and all support and feedback that confirms their belief that the effort is on track. | 21:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: but not at the cost of jeopordizing a long runnning effort like this | 21:40 |
| reed | SumitNaiksatam, my objective is to find the root cause and keep improving, reduce waste, friction | 21:40 |
| marun | ivar-lazzaro: And I've seen the same team ignore criticism. | 21:40 |
| marun | ivar-lazzaro: I think this is called 'confirmation bias' | 21:40 |
| ivar-lazzaro | reed: yeah exactly, so there should be a process to address complaints later in the process. Otherwise a -1 is always stronger than a +1 ( metaphorically speaking) | 21:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: we can definitely help you with that | 21:40 |
| reed | SumitNaiksatam, we need a solution, I agree with you | 21:40 |
| reed | ivar-lazzaro, agreed, voicing concerns ... | 21:41 |
| reed | do people really feel for their jobs if they voice concerns? | 21:41 |
| mscohen | ideally, we would like a solution that would work for Juno as well. There are users on the ML who expressed interest in consuming this work. | 21:41 |
| banix | so the question is where we go from here :) | 21:41 |
| ivar-lazzaro | mscohen: +1 | 21:41 |
| markmcclain | mscohen, banix: I've got a way to address | 21:42 |
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| markmcclain | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Incubator | 21:42 |
| marun | ivar-lazzaro: which suggests the need for an incubation repo. So that we can merge early and often and always be able to correct mistakes before we have to accept a feature as stable. | 21:42 |
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| marun | ivar-lazzaro: having to have a huge chain of patches in flight makes it super painful on all who want to review | 21:42 |
| reed | mscohen, technically speaking code doesn't need to be in trunk to be consumed by users (there is a separate thread on this at the moment) | 21:42 |
| ivar-lazzaro | marun: that is not the only solution proposed though :) | 21:42 |
| banix | markmcclain: great to see your proposal; will need some time to read through | 21:42 |
| marun | ivar-lazzaro: it's the best one so far | 21:43 |
| mscohen | markmcclain: I think this is an interesting direction. My worry is that the incubator may end up a “dumping” ground if its not well integrated into the rest of neutron and openstack | 21:43 |
| markmcclain | marun: +1000 the large chains were an effort to solve one problem but created another type | 21:43 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | reed: that thread is a separate and a longer discussion | 21:43 |
| markmcclain | mscohen: so the 30sec pitch is the incubator is designed to take code that will land <2 cycles | 21:43 |
| tmc3inphilly | markmcclain, mestery: why would we go through this process with LBaaS if we are going to be spinning it out within 2 cycles | 21:43 |
| * mestery worries about core reviewer time for an added incubator repository and how to avoid another GBP via the incubator. | 21:43 | |
| ivar-lazzaro | markmcclain: your 'plus' are slowing getting over 9000 :) | 21:44 |
| mestery | tmc3inphilly: Read the wiki page, we can spinout right from the incubator if we need to. | 21:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: +1 | 21:44 |
| mscohen | But that does not address my concern of doing something for Juno. I think GBP is past that point. | 21:44 |
| reed | I don't think there is a simple solution to this problem ... | 21:44 |
| mestery | I'm not saying these aren't solvable issues. | 21:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: we need more time think about the incubator proposal | 21:44 |
| reed | I think we should focus on GBP | 21:44 |
| blogan | I think if the incubator is executed correctly it will benefit neutron, but if it is not it is just kicking the can the road | 21:44 |
| rkukura | markmcclain: The incubator proposal seems useful for experimantation, but the GBP effort is much more of a feature we’ve committed to implementing, not an experiment. | 21:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: yes | 21:44 |
| mestery | blogan: +100 | 21:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: so specifically in the case of GBP, this its a good candidate for what rkukura has proposed | 21:45 |
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| reed | blogan, indeed, it's a delicate decision, wouldn't suggest rushing it to address the issue with GBP | 21:45 |
| markmcclain | rkukura: except that gpb api isn't stable | 21:45 |
| tmc3inphilly | mestery: I like the process as it helps stabalize Neutron and should ensure that it remains stable. | 21:45 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: I don't think we want anything merging that doesn't have broad consensus. | 21:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: rkukura’s proposal is here #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-August/042461.html | 21:45 |
| markmcclain | rkukura: jaypipes was asking very valid questions and maturing the API is exactly what we need | 21:45 |
| a_le | http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/eb/eb331b1b9bf0f029722a7e734a51c9fcb7aaefb6b6a20df33e2f5baa200eff9e.jpg | 21:45 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: And we don't have time this late in the cycle to gain that consensus without negatively impacting more important work | 21:45 |
| rkukura | markmcclain: The working assumption all along is that initial releases of new APIs are not considered stable. My proposal is just to formalize and clarify that. | 21:45 |
| emagana | mestery and reed: we just have 15 minutes left! | 21:45 |
| markmcclain | tmc3inphilly: yes I want ops to know that what is in tree is production ready | 21:46 |
| mestery | emagana: That's plenty of time to find a solution which makes everyone happy here. | 21:46 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: So, incubate it until we do have consensus | 21:46 |
| reed | emagana, fair enough, I don't think we'll reach consensus on how to proceed in that time | 21:46 |
| emagana | emagana: stop being such as time controller! | 21:46 |
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| blogan | If neutron cores are the only ones to review the incubator projects, then I don't see how that will help core reviewers bandwidth or velocity on getting merged into the incubator themselves | 21:46 |
| markmcclain | and that stuff in the incubator is getting there, but still needs work to matrue | 21:46 |
| emagana | mestery: I hope so ;) | 21:46 |
| mestery | emagana: ;) | 21:46 |
| reed | mestery, we can continue on the list, on rkukura proposal and I'll chase some more of you offline | 21:46 |
| rkukura | Get the feature implemented to production quality, get it in the hands of eartly adopters, and incorporate the feedback to stabilize the feature in the next release. | 21:46 |
| markmcclain | blogan: the goal is that smaller more incremental patches can go in there | 21:46 |
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| reed | and if needed we can continue next week | 21:46 |
| mestery | reed: Thank you sir! | 21:46 |
| markmcclain | so that review time is less | 21:47 |
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| nati_ueno | IMO, we should have a special meeting slot for this | 21:47 |
| nati_ueno | otherwise, we lose core meeting time, right? | 21:47 |
| mestery | nati_ueno: For GBP or incubator or something even more contentious? | 21:47 |
| marun | rkukura: why would we want to rely on an implicit warning of an unstable api when we could make it explicit via separate distribution? | 21:47 |
| dougwig | blogan: i'd hope/expect the bar to be different for merging; namely, the expectation of rapid iteration. i don't want to see a bunch of non-cores reviewing, and end up with a big ball of code that cores have never seen at graduation time. | 21:47 |
| blogan | markmcclain: so if it is the requirement that a majority of cores have to be engaged, does that mean majority of cores have to be engaged throughout the lifecycle of incubated projects or only upon graduation? | 21:47 |
| nati_ueno | marun: both of | 21:47 |
| mestery | blogan: Both! | 21:48 |
| marun | both | 21:48 |
| nati_ueno | sorry mestery: both of | 21:48 |
| mestery | nati_ueno: Got it. | 21:48 |
| nati_ueno | mestery: thanks | 21:48 |
| marun | dougwig: +1 | 21:48 |
| blogan | mestery, marun: in that case do you think if GBP had done this from the start would we be in the same predicament? | 21:49 |
| * banix wishes for the good old slow and sometimes dull meetings of the past :) cannot keep up | 21:49 | |
| marun | dougwig: there could be more emphasis on merging small patches in incubator, since we know that the feature is still evolving | 21:49 |
| reed | emagana, mestery, what are the next topics in the agenda? | 21:49 |
| mestery | blogan: That's the part we hope to avoid. | 21:49 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move on. | 21:49 |
| salv-orlando | Do we have to go on like this for another week? I don’t think the user community, botht the part that uses v2 API and the one that can’t wait to use v3 API will see all this turmoil as positive. | 21:49 |
| emagana | reed: Contrail Plugin review & Sub-team culling | 21:50 |
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| mscohen | so where does that leave this past topic? | 21:50 |
| kevinbenton | It seems there is nothing GBP could have done because non of the dissent was strongly voiced until a couple of days ago | 21:50 |
| mestery | marun: Do we need to talk contrail next? | 21:50 |
| salv-orlando | so if we can at least agree on how we should put an end to this discussion…. | 21:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: so whats the resolution here? | 21:50 |
| ivar-lazzaro | kevinbenton: +1 | 21:50 |
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| reed | SumitNaiksatam, mscohen, no consensus, we'll have to continue discussion | 21:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: regarding GBP? | 21:50 |
| marun | blogan: I think incubating group policy could have avoided this, yes. There could have been more feedback earlier on and no need to rush things before consensus. | 21:50 |
| marun | mestery: yes | 21:50 |
| mestery | marun: OK, we'll get to it next. | 21:50 |
| a_le | kevinbenton: +1billion | 21:51 |
| banix | salv-orlando: +1 | 21:51 |
| mscohen | reed: the problem with that is that juno-3 is moving along. We’re defacto blocked from Juno if this continues though. | 21:51 |
| kentwu | kevinbenton: +1 | 21:51 |
| mestery | My personal fear is that even if someone magically says "lets the GBP reviews proceed" there seems to be the sense they would get -2s from others and we'd be right back here next week. | 21:51 |
| blogan | marun: I'm not so sure myself. I'm all for the incubator project (if its executed well), but I think framing it as a solution to what GBP is going through isn't correct | 21:51 |
| marun | mscohen: The incubator proposal doesn't require incubator release to follow the openstack cycle. | 21:51 |
| * mestery notes his english isn't sluring because of anything alcoholic. | 21:51 | |
| rkukura | I’m not really convinced that the same exact blocking behaviour wouldn’t occur any time there is an attempt to graduate something “contentious” from incubation. | 21:51 |
| marun | mscohen: Release could be whenever there is something meaningful to distribute | 21:51 |
| reed | mscohen, SumitNaiksatam: I'll be working this week with you to move this forward | 21:51 |
| emagana | mestery: good point, I think it makes sense markmcclain proposal then | 21:52 |
| markmcclain | mestery: that is true | 21:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | reed: sure | 21:52 |
| sc68cal | rkukura: +1 | 21:52 |
| marun | rkukura: I think we'd want to have regular checkpoints on incubated efforts. | 21:52 |
| a_le | mestery: where do you get that sense from? | 21:52 |
| reed | I don't think we can do more than this at the moment, there clearly is no consensus | 21:52 |
| dougwig | i agree with blogan on GBP/incubator. we all assume the best of intentions, but what's to stop a last minute -2 on graduation due to "people that are opposed but don't want to speak out" ? nothing. this comes down to people, not process. | 21:52 |
| mestery | So, with that knowledge in tow, how do we move forward? | 21:52 |
| marun | rkukura: so that concerns could be raised early enough to address them constructively and without unnecessary fallout | 21:52 |
| banix | is it fair to say until we find consnsus we wont be able to merge GBP and alike? | 21:52 |
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| reed | is anyone here from Contrail/Juniper? | 21:52 |
| nati_ueno | hi | 21:53 |
| salv-orlando | honeslty from what I see we can keep discussing for months but we’ll never reach a 100% consensus | 21:53 |
| rudrarugge | hi | 21:53 |
| marun | dougwig: incubator projects would have 2 cycles to gain consensus | 21:53 |
| praneet | yes | 21:53 |
| mestery | a_le: Were you paying attention to this meeting? | 21:53 |
| banix | and we need to figure out the process to get there whether it is through markmcclain ’s proposal or something else | 21:53 |
| aranjan | hi | 21:53 |
| dougwig | marun: gbp has had two cycles. :) | 21:53 |
| reed | salv-orlando, have you ever seen a meeting at the UN? | 21:53 |
| marun | dougwig: not in the tree, they haven't | 21:53 |
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| marun | dougwig: if things were merged and had had 2 cycles to mature, it would be very different | 21:53 |
| a_le | mestery: yes, and the elephant in the room is that no one expressed dissent in the open | 21:53 |
| salv-orlando | reed: noe, but Germans and English are still arguing over a goal scored 48 years ago | 21:54 |
| marun | a_le: There are vendors involved in this project. | 21:54 |
| mestery | a_le: I was hoping people would, but alas, we're not going to be that lucky. | 21:54 |
| reed | salv-orlando, this is nothing compared to that :) | 21:54 |
| salv-orlando | reed: and honestly the kind of compromise they do at the UN will probably not be so good for a software project | 21:54 |
| marun | so, contrail? | 21:54 |
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| nati_ueno | ya. | 21:54 |
| salv-orlando | yeah let’s move contrail | 21:54 |
| reed | marun, right, contrail :) | 21:54 |
| mestery | Lets move on | 21:54 |
| mestery | contrail | 21:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: that leads me to question if there really was any dissent, or are we fishing for reasons now? | 21:54 |
| nati_ueno | marun: could you share your thought on here? | 21:54 |
| gus | something I've seen address problems like this elsewhere fwiw is clearly separating reviewer vs approver roles. reviewers get to add comments, but fundamentally only approver's opinions matter. You then make policies that restrict the number and name up front who the approvers are going to be for a particular change (ie: it wouldn't just de-facto be all core reviewers). | 21:55 |
| dougwig | marun: maybe, but there's a very real risk that the "graduation" gate is similar to the current "push a chain of review in" gate. it goes back to the soft touch issues you mentioned earlier. | 21:55 |
| marun | Em | 21:55 |
| marun | Maybe we'll have to talk about contrail separately? | 21:55 |
| marun | we have 5 minutes left | 21:55 |
| reed | #chair mestery | 21:55 |
| openstack | Current chairs: mestery reed | 21:55 |
| nati_ueno | who's interested in that topic? | 21:55 |
| mestery | #unchair reed | 21:55 |
| openstack | Current chairs: mestery | 21:55 |
| nati_ueno | I mean contrail | 21:55 |
| banix | i think related to this is also a large number of other specs that have been approved and honestly I cannot think them getting in… we will have more unhappy developers | 21:55 |
| nati_ueno | we have also have a separate meeting on this | 21:55 |
| marun | nati_ueno: agreed | 21:55 |
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| salv-orlando | nati_ueno, marun: I’ve pointed out that I do not understand why we would need a plugin which is pretty much a proxy which does some minimal changes to the payload and then sends the API request to another neutron endpoint. However, as you see I’ve not put a -2 | 21:56 |
| marun | banix: The fact that spec approval doesn't guarantee feature inclusion needs to be communicated better in the docs and on the list. | 21:56 |
| roampune | why not put it to vote with ATC's | 21:56 |
| nati_ueno | salv-orlando: Thanks. could you have a time for discussion for this? | 21:56 |
| salv-orlando | because that’s the way contrail server is designed, and as much as that seems crazy to me I have no voice there | 21:56 |
| marun | roampune: What qualifies someone to vote on a given issue? | 21:56 |
| nati_ueno | salv-orlando: contrail want to use neutron functionalities such as policy.json quota services (vpn lbaas, fwaas) | 21:57 |
| markmcclain | reed: thanks for helping to work through discussion | 21:57 |
| marun | roampune: we are not actually a democracy. People have to earn their influence, it isn't given for showing up. | 21:57 |
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| salv-orlando | nati_ueno: there is no need to discuss that - from the neutron point of view the code is simple and linear. I think you’ll end up in trouble everytime there will be an API change but is none of my business that | 21:57 |
| nati_ueno | salv-orlando: l2 stuff is proxyed thorught | 21:57 |
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| nati_ueno | salv-orlando: ya that's pain point but we can work on it | 21:57 |
| marun | I think that contrail is not a very useful plugin from a community perspective. | 21:57 |
| marun | It is a shim to integrate the contrail controller into Neutron, sure. | 21:58 |
| sc68cal | marun: showing up is important, turning people away with comments like that does not further the project | 21:58 |
| marun | But it provides no real benefit to the community that couldn't be easily carried out of tree. | 21:58 |
| nati_ueno | marun: ya but it is also point of neturon, right? user can choose backend. no lockin | 21:58 |
| salv-orlando | nati_ueno: yes using neutron for authN/authZ only is a bit… not enough. But again, if that’s how contrail works, I can’t really say anything about that. So from my perspective, I am happy to see that plugin land in jno. | 21:58 |
| marun | And the contrail team has a bad record of interacting with the community. | 21:58 |
| rudrarugge | marun: backend choices are dependent on the plugin | 21:58 |
| emagana | marun: few other plugins will fall into that category then | 21:58 |
| nati_ueno | it looks like there are some communication issue. but i can fix it | 21:59 |
| * salv-orlando hoping that we’ll move all non-reference plugin away from the main code repo in Kilo because it has become unmaneageable | 21:59 | |
| marun | Things like escalating to the foundation rather than trying to resolve things direclty. | 21:59 |
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| markmcclain | marun: most plugins are thin shims | 21:59 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: ++ | 21:59 |
| nati_ueno | marun: ya we should discuss it in here | 21:59 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: That's next week's topic. | 21:59 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: I'm sure it will be an easy discussion. | 21:59 |
| reed | marun, who is 'the foundation'? | 21:59 |
| marun | you, as I understand it | 21:59 |
| reed | marun, ok, jutss checking :) | 21:59 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: huh? What was the last easy discussion we had? | 21:59 |
| mestery | 1 minute left | 22:00 |
| markmcclain | my main concern with this particular implementation is that it is different enough that attempts to refactor the core will break it | 22:00 |
| reed | marun, and indeed, I'd be happy to get involved | 22:00 |
| markmcclain | but that is on the back of the proposing company | 22:00 |
| marun | That said, I have been assured that the unproductive modes of interaction that have characterized the contrail team thus far are not going to continue. | 22:00 |
| mestery | OK, we;re at time folks. | 22:00 |
| sc68cal | yeah if we refactor core and it breaks them, oh well | 22:00 |
| mestery | I invite you all back to next week's weekly neutron meeting where the fun will continue. | 22:00 |
| nati_ueno | markmcclain: it is chagned in latest one | 22:00 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 11 22:00:59 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| marun | And that nati_ueno joining their team indicates their willingness to contribute to the community and not just be free riders. | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2014/networking.2014-08-11-21.00.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2014/networking.2014-08-11-21.00.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2014/networking.2014-08-11-21.00.log.html | 22:01 |
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| nati_ueno | marun: yes. I promise keep contribution for the community | 22:01 |
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| nati_ueno | marun: and I'll fix communication issue | 22:01 |
| marun | I was hoping for input from folks as to what they wanted to see happen :( | 22:01 |
| marun | Everything is getting lost under the group policy debate. | 22:01 |
| marun | It really needs to stop. | 22:02 |
| salv-orlando | so the meeting is over… adieuuuuu | 22:02 |
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| marun | ciao | 22:02 |
| markmcclain | marun: honestly I'd be ok giving contrail a go.. we are very likley to break their plugin in kilo | 22:02 |
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| amotoki | we seem to need storng time keepers :-( | 22:02 |
| marun | let's talk about contrail in #openstack-neutron | 22:02 |
| praneet | marun +1 | 22:02 |
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