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| krotscheck | #startmeeting StoryBoard | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 13 15:00:09 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 15:00 |
| krotscheck | Good [insert time of day], everyone! | 15:00 |
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| krotscheck | Agenda: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard#Agenda | 15:00 |
| krotscheck | #topic Urgent Items | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Urgent Items (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:00 | |
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| krotscheck | I don’t really think there’s anything urgent at the moment. Anyone have anything? | 15:01 |
| krotscheck | … is anyone other than ttx here? | 15:02 |
| ttx | ... | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | Right.... | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | Well, I guess we can just skip ahead then. | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion: Story Types. | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion: Story Types. (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:03 | |
| krotscheck | Anything new? | 15:03 |
| ttx | No, but I truly expect to have slightly more time this week. If those pesky PTLs stop respinning RCs | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | :) | 15:04 |
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| krotscheck | My condolences :) | 15:04 |
| ttx | last week was a joke | 15:04 |
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| krotscheck | I dunno, I feel like I got our API a bit more stable. | 15:04 |
| krotscheck | Or, well, tested anyway. | 15:04 |
| krotscheck | Anyway | 15:05 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: Do you just want to read through the agenda items and see which bits you want an update on? | 15:05 |
| ttx | sure | 15:05 |
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| krotscheck | Cool | 15:06 |
| ttx | I'm mostly concerned with the blocked specs, tbh | 15:06 |
| krotscheck | Right | 15:06 |
| * krotscheck hasn’t really looked at specs in a while. | 15:06 | |
| ttx | on one side we can't get infra-core to review them, on theother they are not really updated | 15:06 |
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| ttx | so that process seems pretty stale | 15:06 |
| krotscheck | true. | 15:06 |
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| ttx | we might need to revisit that at the summit | 15:07 |
| krotscheck | Well, we’ve mostly been slowly plodding away at the things that _have_ been approved. | 15:07 |
| ttx | dunnol if it's just storyboard specs, or all infra ones | 15:07 |
| krotscheck | It’s just that I only can write so much code. | 15:07 |
| ttx | yeah, I'm basically useless every second half of cycles | 15:07 |
| ttx | I can keep up with reviews, but tha's about it | 15:07 |
| ttx | so if nikita disapopears, you're a bit alone | 15:08 |
| krotscheck | Ayup. | 15:08 |
| ttx | disappears* | 15:08 |
| krotscheck | In retrospect, while having Ish__ around was cool, she did also require some of my bandwidth. | 15:08 |
| krotscheck | So maybe no more interns until more things happen. | 15:08 |
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| ttx | I hope we'll have people joining once we start using it on more projects | 15:09 |
| krotscheck | I hope so. | 15:09 |
| krotscheck | But we need to get to that inflection point. | 15:09 |
| ttx | so it's difficult to get to the point where we can onboard more, but hopefully will get better then | 15:09 |
| ttx | right | 15:09 |
| krotscheck | Well, 2 weeks until paris. | 15:09 |
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| krotscheck | Doubtful we’ll hit the goal of getting infra-ready. | 15:10 |
| ttx | that's about it, th rest can wait | 15:10 |
| ttx | yeah, will take a bit longer than expected. | 15:10 |
| krotscheck | Alright, well, let’s just call the meeting then so I can get back to doing features. | 15:10 |
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| krotscheck | Project Groups is thankfully coming along nicely now that I grok SQLAlchemy. | 15:11 |
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| krotscheck | Just don’t look at the SQL it generates - that join is crazy | 15:11 |
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| ttx | I think we can get subscription and projectgroups covered by Paris | 15:11 |
| ttx | we'll miss tags | 15:12 |
| krotscheck | I agree. | 15:12 |
| krotscheck | Emails might be possible. | 15:12 |
| ttx | and emails, whatever that covers :) | 15:12 |
| krotscheck | MIGHT | 15:12 |
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| krotscheck | The catch ther eis that we really need a user preferences API so that a user can opt in to emails. | 15:12 |
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| krotscheck | Any last items? | 15:13 |
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| krotscheck | #endmeeting | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:13 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 13 15:13:51 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:13 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-10-13-15.00.html | 15:13 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-10-13-15.00.txt | 15:13 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-10-13-15.00.log.html | 15:13 |
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| rakhmerov | #startmeeting Mistral | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 13 16:00:15 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rakhmerov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:00 | |
| rakhmerov | hi | 16:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'mistral' | 16:00 |
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| nmakhotkin_ | hi! | 16:00 |
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| dzimine | hi all | 16:04 |
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| dzimine | hey Mistral team, are you there? | 16:07 |
| rakhmerov | yes! | 16:08 |
| rakhmerov | sorry | 16:08 |
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| rakhmerov | just a sec please | 16:09 |
| nmakhotkin_ | hi dzimine! | 16:09 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, guys | 16:09 |
| rakhmerov | sorry I didn't send out any agenda | 16:09 |
| rakhmerov | we've been deeply in coding with Nikolay for the last few days | 16:10 |
| rakhmerov | let's quickly report our statuses | 16:10 |
| rakhmerov | #topic Current Status | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Current Status (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:11 | |
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| dzimine | I’m still waiting for reviews on doc changes, to see whre exactly they land once checked in so we can link them from wiki and kill the api /dsl docs on wiki. | 16:11 |
| rakhmerov | my status is: Last week I created an example 'Tenant statistics', fixed several bugs and made some usability changes, today I created a simple version cron trigger (needed for a presentation, we can change it later) | 16:12 |
| dzimine | Won’t be able to review all stuff this week, so please ping me for key reviews. | 16:12 |
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| rakhmerov | dzimine, ok | 16:12 |
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| rakhmerov | dzimine, your changes will be reviewed tomorrow. sorry for that | 16:13 |
| dzimine | did you consider triggering mistral by external chron? | 16:13 |
| dzimine | np. | 16:13 |
| nmakhotkin_ | I modified calculator example (yes, also renamed it to 'calculator') and started work on for-each | 16:13 |
| rakhmerov | dzimine, this is an option, right. The point is to show it as a 'distributed cron' | 16:14 |
| rakhmerov | again, we'll have a chance to discuss it more detailed | 16:14 |
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| rakhmerov | overall status on the project: we've started working on some 0.2 BPs, ('for-each' and I was thinking in details about 'join') | 16:16 |
| rakhmerov | looks like this week we'll be mostly working on presentations and other stuff | 16:17 |
| rakhmerov | but the good news is that we're fixing enormous amount of bugs | 16:17 |
| dzimine | we captured some API clean-up tasks, it’s a priority that we do them before someone begins to do the API. | 16:18 |
| rakhmerov | yep | 16:18 |
| dzimine | But yes the best is to use the system. | 16:18 |
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| rakhmerov | for now I can only promise it will be a part of 0.2 | 16:18 |
| rakhmerov | not sure exactly we'll start working on it | 16:19 |
| dzimine | We at stackstorm are switching to using v2 of DSL and API next week | 16:19 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:19 |
| rakhmerov | there's a chance we'll do it by then | 16:19 |
| rakhmerov | or you could help us ) | 16:19 |
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| rakhmerov | other than that I don't have anything to discuss | 16:21 |
| rakhmerov | do you guys have some questions? | 16:21 |
| dzimine | when are you showing Mistral? | 16:21 |
| rakhmerov | Nastya is still on vacation, we'll return this Wed | 16:21 |
| rakhmerov | this Wed | 16:21 |
| dzimine | ok, good luck. Will you video record? | 16:22 |
| rakhmerov | and then 3 more times till the end of Oct | 16:22 |
| rakhmerov | this time no | 16:22 |
| rakhmerov | The video will be recorded on Oct 30 | 16:22 |
| rakhmerov | so let's close the meeting then? | 16:23 |
| nmakhotkin_ | I guess some of integration tests are broken now | 16:23 |
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| rakhmerov | yes, they need to be refactored a little bit | 16:23 |
| nmakhotkin_ | ok, I have no questions | 16:23 |
| rakhmerov | it's because of these standard worklfows | 16:23 |
| rakhmerov | Nastya will fix it, we just don't have enough capacity for that now | 16:24 |
| dzimine | ok. Keep me posted on multiple data, skype me if I am slow on review response on this, I am interested to see it. | 16:24 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, sure | 16:25 |
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| rakhmerov | Nikolay already got something working but revealed some problems | 16:25 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, bye-bye | 16:25 |
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| rakhmerov | #endmeeting | 16:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:26 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 13 16:26:11 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:26 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2014/mistral.2014-10-13-16.00.html | 16:26 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2014/mistral.2014-10-13-16.00.txt | 16:26 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2014/mistral.2014-10-13-16.00.log.html | 16:26 |
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| sarob | #startmeeting training-guides | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 13 17:00:44 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'training_guides' | 17:00 |
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| sarob | hello all | 17:00 |
| dbite | hello | 17:00 |
| matjazp_ | hi | 17:00 |
| rluethi | hey | 17:01 |
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| sarob | so lets follow up on items from last week | 17:02 |
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| sarob | here is the doodle poll for kilo design time #link http://doodle.com/4hp7a89e3geykmhy | 17:02 |
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| sarob | i will send it over the ML as well | 17:03 |
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| sarob | any questions about us meeting over the kilo summit? | 17:03 |
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| sarob | #topic actions from last meeting | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:04 | |
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| sarob | okay | 17:05 |
| sayali | Hello | 17:05 |
| matjazp_ | hi sayali | 17:05 |
| sarob | hi there | 17:05 |
| dbite | hey | 17:05 |
| sarob | we are going over actions from last week | 17:05 |
| dbite | check the logs for doodle link | 17:05 |
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| sarob | here is the docs program kilo summit etherpad #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/docstopicsparissummit | 17:06 |
| sarob | i dumped some training guides topic ideas into there for our design meet | 17:06 |
| sarob | i ask that you all do the same | 17:06 |
| sarob | so we have a solid agenda for the summit | 17:07 |
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| sayali | okay | 17:07 |
| matjazp_ | ok | 17:07 |
| sarob | any questions about this? | 17:07 |
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| sarob | btw, my topic ideas are not the agenda per say | 17:08 |
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| sarob | i want the group to set the agenda | 17:08 |
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| sarob | i just got it started | 17:08 |
| sarob | #action team updates kilo summit agenda with their topics #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/docstopicsparissummit | 17:09 |
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| sarob | #action team updates the kilo summit doodle poll with their preferred time to meet #link http://doodle.com/4hp7a89e3geykmhy | 17:10 |
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| sarob | okay moving on | 17:10 |
| sarob | #topic docs updates | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "docs updates (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:10 | |
| sarob | what up d? | 17:11 |
| dbite | no progress on docs last week | 17:11 |
| dbite | two things remain, update the basic install guides for Icehouse some fine tuning needed | 17:11 |
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| dbite | and fix XML schema to make it upto mark with docs | 17:12 |
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| sarob | should we list these as critical bugs to prioritize? | 17:13 |
| dbite | yes that is a good way to start with it | 17:14 |
| dbite | #action dbite address pending work on docs sub-team by logging bugs | 17:14 |
| sarob | cool | 17:14 |
| sarob | work that needs to get done asap marked as critical | 17:15 |
| dbite | yes | 17:15 |
| sarob | anything else? | 17:15 |
| dbite | no, Im done | 17:15 |
| sarob | coolo | 17:15 |
| sarob | #topic infra updates | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "infra updates (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:15 | |
| matjazp_ | well... looking at bug list... we need to address it more fequently.. | 17:15 |
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| sarob | i am going to start keeping up on the schedule, wiki, and bug tracking better | 17:16 |
| dbite | infra is moving a bit faster now | 17:16 |
| sarob | i have been lax | 17:16 |
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| dbite | first of all, we are almost ready to publish first of our custom jenkins jobs to build HTML and PDF presentations | 17:18 |
| dbite | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126246/ | 17:18 |
| dbite | this will make it easier for infra to publish more jobs eventually | 17:18 |
| sarob | ill will run again this morning | 17:18 |
| matjazp_ | dbite: what was with wkhtml2pdf and weasyprint? | 17:18 |
| dbite | the dependencies with wkhtml2pdf were a bit Icky so I found out a better solution | 17:19 |
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| dbite | which was weasyprint with no dependencies apart from python | 17:19 |
| dbite | packages | 17:19 |
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| dbite | wkhtml2pdf also had some issues with the way it was using CSS for generating the PDF files | 17:20 |
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| dbite | and was having broken dependencies like QT4 which are not expected on a server while building it | 17:20 |
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| matjazp_ | dbite: ok.. what's the status for this patch? Infra team is ok with it? | 17:20 |
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| dbite | the patch is ready | 17:21 |
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| dbite | we are waiting for global requirements to accept the patch | 17:21 |
| dbite | after which we will push remaining scripts in training guides | 17:22 |
| dbite | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127472/ | 17:22 |
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| dbite | we need to update global requirements before we can merge this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126877/ | 17:22 |
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| dbite | which is in turn required to automatically build this script using tox https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126246/ | 17:23 |
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| sarob | want me to answer doug's question? | 17:23 |
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| sarob | we can ask reed to weigh in | 17:23 |
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| dbite | I did not get doug's question | 17:24 |
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| sarob | he is asking why we are not using Sphinx | 17:24 |
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| dbite | ahh yes | 17:24 |
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| dbite | we need to ask Reed to answer this | 17:25 |
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| sarob | reed you onlilne? | 17:26 |
| sarob | huurmph | 17:26 |
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| sarob | #action dbite, sarob get reed to comment on #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127472/ | 17:26 |
| dbite | I added him to the review so that he may notice this | 17:26 |
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| sarob | i just added him a sec ago | 17:27 |
| dbite | reed seems to be offline for now | 17:27 |
| sarob | yeah | 17:27 |
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| sarob | what else | 17:28 |
| sarob | you got cooking? | 17:28 |
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| matjazp_ | sarob: dbite: I think landslide is optimized for presentations, Sphinx is not? | 17:28 |
| dbite | matjazp_: It makes me happy to think this way :) | 17:28 |
| rluethi | matjazp_: I think so too, but it's worth finding out | 17:28 |
| sarob | matjazp_ that is my understanding from reed | 17:29 |
| matjazp_ | So this is the reason we use landslide and weasyprint :) | 17:29 |
| dbite | to generate presentations from sphinx needs similar tools like landslide which have more dependencies in turn! | 17:29 |
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| sarob | if it is nothing more than better quality output, i will back up that argument | 17:31 |
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| sarob | moving on? | 17:31 |
| dbite | yes | 17:31 |
| matjazp_ | yes, me too... Presentations need to be of high quality (more than docs), or trainers won't use them | 17:31 |
| sarob | yup | 17:32 |
| sarob | #topic testing update | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testing update (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:32 | |
| matjazp_ | slow progress | 17:32 |
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| matjazp_ | compute node Quizz is more or less done | 17:32 |
| matjazp_ | moving to network node | 17:32 |
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| matjazp_ | I have few questions in my txt files, need to submit as patches for network node quiz | 17:33 |
| sarob | cool | 17:33 |
| sarob | any thoughts on moodle or something else to add testing automation | 17:34 |
| matjazp_ | sarob: I hope to discuss this at the summit | 17:34 |
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| sarob | okay good | 17:34 |
| matjazp_ | I'll also ping M. Rice from LPI | 17:35 |
| sarob | ideas on how to put the assessment test together? | 17:35 |
| sarob | LPI input would be good | 17:35 |
| dbite | what is LPI and who is M. Rice? | 17:36 |
| matjazp_ | hmmm.. I would like to have hands on test, but this is way harder than "just" normal test | 17:36 |
| sarob | as least as reference info | 17:36 |
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| sarob | for the associate training, hands on may be too much | 17:36 |
| matjazp_ | sarob: it could be simplified | 17:36 |
| matjazp_ | usually there is a problem with resources and time limits | 17:36 |
| sarob | it could be too much for us to support | 17:37 |
| sarob | yeah | 17:37 |
| matjazp_ | dbite: Linuz Profesional Institute, they make Linux certifications | 17:37 |
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| dbite | ok | 17:38 |
| sarob | Rice is one of the guys at LPI that reached out to us about 4 months ago | 17:38 |
| sarob | member? | 17:38 |
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| matjazp_ | one idea is just to have a larger pool of quastions and the assesment could be a random x quastions form that pool | 17:39 |
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| sarob | LPI works with a few different orgs on setting up and support trainers and testing certs | 17:39 |
| matjazp_ | questions | 17:39 |
| dbite | ok | 17:39 |
| dbite | yes I recollect | 17:39 |
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| sarob | matjazp_ i like that | 17:39 |
| sarob | matjazp_ perhaps when automated quiz and test could pull from the same poll | 17:39 |
| sarob | pool | 17:40 |
| matjazp_ | sarob: this means no hands on, unfortunately | 17:40 |
| sarob | matjazp_ could still have a separate test section that is hands on | 17:40 |
| sarob | matjazp_ that results get entered manually | 17:41 |
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| sarob | matjazp_ but while we are still getting started, id like to punt on the extra complexity | 17:41 |
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| sarob | matjazp_ can always come back to the test methods and options later | 17:42 |
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| matjazp_ | sarob: agree.. so maybe it is easier to start with a getting a larger pool of "simple" questions | 17:42 |
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| sarob | matjazp_ i like that | 17:42 |
| sarob | moving on? | 17:43 |
| matjazp_ | yes | 17:43 |
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| sarob | matjazp_ can you get the remaining quizzes done by the summit? | 17:43 |
| matjazp_ | for associate quide? yes, I hope so | 17:44 |
| sarob | matjazp_ assign network and object storage quiz as critical bugs to yourself? | 17:44 |
| matjazp_ | ok | 17:44 |
| sarob | #action matjazp assign network and object storage quizzes as critical bugs | 17:45 |
| matjazp_ | megan is helping me with object storage quiz... I have to ping her for the progress | 17:45 |
| sarob | or assign to meganr as well | 17:45 |
| sarob | up to you | 17:45 |
| sarob | #topic audio visual update | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "audio visual update (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:45 | |
| sayali | So I have been testing a few tools for on screen recording on linux and windows | 17:46 |
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| sayali | I have created a sample video using an open source tool mydesktoprecorder it came out quite good. | 17:48 |
| sarob | nice | 17:48 |
| sayali | I will have a proper one ready by tomorrow so that the team can review it | 17:48 |
| sarob | great news | 17:48 |
| sayali | and then we could ask the user group to start using these tools | 17:48 |
| sayali | so no extra camera or anything is required if the sound quality and video quality is good enough and it will be easy to use as well. | 17:49 |
| sarob | low tech is good | 17:49 |
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| sarob | anything else? | 17:50 |
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| dbite | sarob: I would suggest getting a proper recording mic | 17:50 |
| dbite | with a pop filter | 17:50 |
| sayali | nope thats all from my side | 17:50 |
| dbite | atleast for the sake of keeping the audio quality good | 17:50 |
| sarob | #action sayali will share AV first works with team | 17:50 |
| sarob | dbite lets see/hear how the first version of this sounds | 17:51 |
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| sarob | dbite if we can get away with not needing it, much more the better | 17:51 |
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| sayali | ya that would be better because we want the user groups all over to use it | 17:52 |
| sarob | #topic any other business | 17:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:52 | |
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| sarob | im going to work on the associate training through user groups plan this week some more | 17:53 |
| sarob | i think we will need another meeting just for logistics | 17:53 |
| sarob | this team will not need to attend unless you plan on being a trainer | 17:54 |
| matjazp_ | meeting will be in person? Hangout? IRC? | 17:54 |
| sarob | i have a few likely suspects as trainers | 17:54 |
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| dbite | ok, sounds good | 17:55 |
| sarob | matjazp_ id prefer irc, but this is a different type of person(s) | 17:55 |
| sarob | irc experience not as likely | 17:55 |
| sarob | matjazp_ ill see if the trainer team goes for it | 17:56 |
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| matjazp_ | sarob: we still need presentations for the associate guide | 17:56 |
| matjazp_ | like we have for Upstream training | 17:56 |
| sarob | true that | 17:56 |
| matjazp_ | There is a demand for this stuff | 17:56 |
| sarob | which stuff? | 17:57 |
| matjazp_ | "ppt"s | 17:57 |
| sarob | matjazp_ sure | 17:57 |
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| sarob | matjazp_ everyone loves slideware | 17:57 |
| sarob | ;) | 17:57 |
| sarob | making slides will help us with fine tuning the material | 17:58 |
| sarob | almost last call | 17:58 |
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| matjazp_ | ...and we'll get more feedback on what works and what we need to improve | 17:58 |
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| sarob | #action sarob report on the trainer team setup progress at next week's meeting | 17:58 |
| sarob | matjazp_ yup | 17:59 |
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| sarob | times up everyone | 17:59 |
| sarob | until next week | 17:59 |
| rluethi | cheers | 17:59 |
| sarob | cheers! | 17:59 |
| sayali | bye bye | 17:59 |
| matjazp_ | bye | 18:00 |
| sarob | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 13 18:00:09 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2014/training_guides.2014-10-13-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2014/training_guides.2014-10-13-17.00.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2014/training_guides.2014-10-13-17.00.log.html | 18:00 |
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| krtaylor | #startmeeting third-party | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 13 18:00:39 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 18:00 |
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| dbite | bye | 18:00 |
| krtaylor | anyone here for the third party meeting? | 18:01 |
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| * jesusaurus is lurking | 18:01 | |
| sweston | Good morning! | 18:01 |
| * ctlaugh is here | 18:01 | |
| * ociuhandu is around | 18:01 | |
| krtaylor | welcome everyone! | 18:01 |
| asselin | hi | 18:01 |
| ociuhandu | hello all | 18:02 |
| ctlaugh | hello | 18:02 |
| dougwig | o/ | 18:02 |
| ignacio-scopett1 | o/ | 18:02 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Welcome & Reminder of OpenStack Mission | 18:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Welcome & Reminder of OpenStack Mission (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:02 | |
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| krtaylor | #info The OpenStack Open Source Cloud Mission: to produce the ubiquitous Open Source Cloud Computing platform that will meet the needs of public and private clouds regardless of size, by being simple to implement and massively scalable. | 18:02 |
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| krtaylor | we have a light agenda today, but I'm sure we'll have a lively open discussion later | 18:03 |
| krtaylor | here is the agenda | 18:03 |
| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#10.2F13.2F14 | 18:03 |
| krtaylor | #topic Review of previous week's open action items | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of previous week's open action items (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:03 | |
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| krtaylor | I didn't record any actions from last meeting | 18:04 |
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| krtaylor | did I miss anything? | 18:04 |
| krtaylor | next | 18:05 |
| krtaylor | #topic Announcements | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:05 | |
| krtaylor | again nothing on the agenda | 18:05 |
| krtaylor | anyone have an announcement? | 18:05 |
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| krtaylor | onward then | 18:06 |
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| krtaylor | #topic OpenStack Program items | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Program items (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:06 | |
| krtaylor | I'm the only item here | 18:06 |
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| krtaylor | and that is for all to review the kilo summit session priorities | 18:06 |
| krtaylor | I'd like to fill that out into an etherpad for the summit session | 18:07 |
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| krtaylor | that session has been scheduled | 18:07 |
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| krtaylor | #link http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/event/9902dac01525691e60ac94bf236569c6# | 18:07 |
| krtaylor | I hope to see you all there | 18:07 |
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| krtaylor | next | 18:08 |
| krtaylor | #topic Deadlines & Deprecations | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Deadlines & Deprecations (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:08 | |
| krtaylor | nothing here, anyone? | 18:08 |
| * krtaylor is thinking we may have the shortest meeting ever | 18:09 | |
| krtaylor | #topic Highlighting a Program or Gerrit Account | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Highlighting a Program or Gerrit Account (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:09 | |
| krtaylor | no one volunteered to speak about their system here, maybe next week | 18:09 |
| * ctlaugh is new here -- starting to get involved, but nothing to contribute yet | 18:09 | |
| krtaylor | I'll see if I can drum up a third-party service to give us a overview next week | 18:10 |
| krtaylor | welcome ctlaugh | 18:10 |
| ctlaugh | I would love to hear about an example of a working one -- I am with Linaro and we are highly interested in setting up third-party testing for ARM | 18:10 |
| krtaylor | ctlaugh, I can prob help there, I was in Linaro too, I'll ping you later | 18:11 |
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| ctlaugh | krtaylor: excellent | 18:11 |
| krtaylor | ctlaugh, say hi to ibiris for me :) | 18:11 |
| ctlaugh | krtaylor: I will | 18:11 |
| krtaylor | ok, so this is the fastest we have ever gotten to the Open Discussion | 18:12 |
| krtaylor | #topic Open Discussion | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 18:12 | |
| krtaylor | the floor is open | 18:12 |
| ociuhandu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/118623/ | 18:13 |
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| * krtaylor looks | 18:13 | |
| ociuhandu | We had quite a few talks around it | 18:13 |
| krtaylor | ah yes | 18:14 |
| krtaylor | I was looking at that this morning | 18:14 |
| krtaylor | I am thinking I will abandon that one, and revive the effort after discussions at summit | 18:14 |
| ociuhandu | and I had the feeling that we will move towards a format to trigger only third-party CIs on our last talk | 18:14 |
| ociuhandu | had this feeling, just wanted to confirm it :) | 18:15 |
| krtaylor | yes, although I'd like to see it addressed again across the board | 18:15 |
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| ociuhandu | maybe some of the other third-party folks can also take a look and express their views on it | 18:16 |
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| krtaylor | if infra is still strong feeling that recheck fires everything, then we'll need a ci specific recommendation, which is basically for the CI systems to document it on their wiki page | 18:16 |
| asselin | I agree wth ociuhandu's comments | 18:16 |
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| krtaylor | ociuhandu, yes, that would be helpful for when it is revived | 18:16 |
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| * krtaylor is trying to locate another link he'd like to get feedback on... | 18:17 | |
| sweston | how about this one? :-) https://bugs.launchpad.net/zuul/+bug/1370105 | 18:18 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1370105 in zuul "feature request: gerrit files option for pipeline triggers" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 18:18 |
| sweston | aw, beat me to it | 18:18 |
| sweston | so I was looking at this last week | 18:18 |
| asselin | this one too: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123578/ | 18:19 |
| krtaylor | sweston, are you working that one? | 18:20 |
| sweston | I will take it | 18:20 |
| krtaylor | asselin, and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122896/ | 18:20 |
| krtaylor | sweston, excellent | 18:21 |
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| krtaylor | sweston, I was hoping I could, not enough hours in the day | 18:21 |
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| mmedvede | the asselin 's patch adds additional gate hooks. It is good to have for third-party. | 18:21 |
| krtaylor | so I will beg reviews for the 2 links for asselin 's patches | 18:21 |
| sweston | I have a few hours at the end of the week, I'll take it off your hands | 18:22 |
| krtaylor | mmedvede, ++ | 18:22 |
| asselin | thanks | 18:22 |
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| krtaylor | sweston, thats perfect | 18:22 |
| sweston | krtaylor: ok | 18:22 |
| asselin | should I rebase https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122896/ now, or after it's dependency merges? | 18:22 |
| krtaylor | asselin, those are close, they just need another +2 right? | 18:22 |
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| asselin | they both have 1 +2 | 18:23 |
| asselin | so yes | 18:23 |
| krtaylor | let's bring those up at the infra meeting tomorrow, if they are still needy | 18:23 |
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| asselin | ok...infra or qa? | 18:24 |
| krtaylor | infra was what I was thinking | 18:24 |
| asselin | ok I see..it's in openstack-infra. | 18:24 |
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| krtaylor | asselin, they are infra patches | 18:25 |
| clarkb | asselin: why not just run cleanup after d-g runs? | 18:25 |
| krtaylor | right, its tomorrow | 18:25 |
| krtaylor | +1 | 18:25 |
| clarkb | or before it runs? | 18:25 |
| clarkb | I don't think we need this functionality in d-g. it exists to run devstack then tests. Not cleanup after them | 18:25 |
| asselin | clarkb, b/c the log file upload is there. | 18:26 |
| clarkb | asselin: we can chat outside the meeting but I don't understand how that comes into play | 18:26 |
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| asselin | ok | 18:26 |
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| krtaylor | clarkb, we have also found this idea to be very useful | 18:27 |
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| clarkb | right I get that the functionality is useful, but if you run it after d-g returns don't ou get the same functionality? | 18:27 |
| clarkb | (or before d-g runs depending on the context of pre vs post) | 18:27 |
| asselin | no, if it's a failure, then no other tasks run | 18:27 |
| clarkb | asselin: thats an artifact of your job setup | 18:27 |
| clarkb | asselin: you can change that | 18:28 |
| * asselin looking | 18:28 | |
| krtaylor | mmedvede, rfolco ^^^ | 18:28 |
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| asselin | and also, we sanitize some log files before they're uploaded | 18:28 |
| mmedvede | clarkb, the issue is that if we want to, for example, pull custom logs, we can not use post test hook, because it is not run if tests fail | 18:29 |
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| clarkb | mmedvede: but that can be changed | 18:29 |
| clarkb | remove set -e, run d-g, record $?, run post options, exit recorded $? | 18:29 |
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| asselin | clarkb, I can try that and see if that's sufficient for what we need to do | 18:31 |
| krtaylor | ok, that looks like it might require more discussion in -infra | 18:31 |
| mmedvede | clarkb, yes, we can do this. But would it not be more invasive and have a potential to break things? Also, as rfolco said, we might want to do additional work after cleanup | 18:31 |
| clarkb | no I think adding more features to d-g is invasive | 18:32 |
| clarkb | and likely to break things particularly since it will not be used upstream where we test d-g | 18:32 |
| asselin | I think the refactoring is good idea regardless | 18:32 |
| mmedvede | clarkb, the patch should not add anything unless there are post/pre hooks are defined | 18:32 |
| asselin | it also includes unit tests which were not there before | 18:33 |
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| krtaylor | ok, it looks like this discussion is dying down | 18:35 |
| krtaylor | we can continue in -infra | 18:35 |
| asselin | ok | 18:36 |
| ctlaugh | Are there any other recommended links to start with other than http://ci.openstack.org/third_party.html#the-jenkins-gerrit-trigger-plugin-way? | 18:36 |
| ctlaugh | oops, sorry, wrong link | 18:36 |
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| ctlaugh | http://ci.openstack.org/third_party.html (without the anchor) | 18:36 |
| krtaylor | ctlaugh, there are several good ones | 18:36 |
| krtaylor | jaypipes has a couple | 18:36 |
| krtaylor | I have a list I'll forward | 18:37 |
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| ctlaugh | krtaylor: thank you | 18:37 |
| krtaylor | anyone else? | 18:37 |
| krtaylor | thats a new record for the fastest meeting | 18:38 |
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| krtaylor | thanks everyone! | 18:38 |
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| sweston | thanks! | 18:38 |
| krtaylor | #endmeeting | 18:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:38 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 13 18:38:38 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:38 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2014/third_party.2014-10-13-18.00.html | 18:38 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2014/third_party.2014-10-13-18.00.txt | 18:38 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2014/third_party.2014-10-13-18.00.log.html | 18:38 |
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| devananda | hi all! | 19:00 |
| dtantsur | o/ | 19:00 |
| jroll | \o | 19:00 |
| GheRivero | o/ | 19:00 |
| devananda | #startmeeting ironic | 19:00 |
| adam_g | o/ | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 13 19:00:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 19:00 |
| pensu | o/ | 19:00 |
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| devananda | #chair NobodyCam | 19:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: NobodyCam devananda | 19:00 |
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| lucasagomes | o/ | 19:00 |
| devananda | #topic Greetings and Announcements | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Greetings and Announcements (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:00 | |
| mrda | o/ | 19:00 |
| harshada_kakad | o/ | 19:00 |
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| jgrimm | o/ | 19:01 |
| rameshg87 | o/ | 19:01 |
| devananda | our agenda is, as usual, up on the wiki here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic | 19:01 |
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| devananda | I hope everyone had a great weekend :) | 19:01 |
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| devananda | hm, haven't seen NobodyCam yet? | 19:02 |
| devananda | my only annoucement from last week is that we tagged a second release candidate | 19:02 |
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| lucasagomes | I marked a bug as potential-rc after the release :( | 19:03 |
| devananda | d'oh | 19:03 |
| devananda | #topic Juno status | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno status (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:03 | |
| devananda | lucasagomes: link? | 19:03 |
| lucasagomes | well I haven't found it before | 19:03 |
| lucasagomes | 1sec | 19:03 |
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| lucasagomes | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/1379705 | 19:03 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1379705 in ironic "DRAC Driver can't continue the deploy" [High,Fix committed] | 19:03 |
| lucasagomes | basically the DRAC driver is broken because it has no vendor interface (and it uses PXE for deploy) | 19:04 |
| linggao | o/ | 19:04 |
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| lucasagomes | s/is/was the fix is merged in K | 19:04 |
| devananda | oh | 19:04 |
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| lucasagomes | yeah it's a silly one | 19:04 |
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| devananda | crap. yes, that's broken | 19:05 |
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| devananda | ok... I can set up an RC3 for the end of this week | 19:05 |
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| devananda | anyone else find critical bugs since we opened Kilo? | 19:05 |
| lucasagomes | cool thanks | 19:05 |
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| devananda | or things serious enough to need backporting to juno? | 19:06 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: for juno, we would like to add some documentation for ilo drivers - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127161/ . does it come under mention here ? | 19:06 |
| GheRivero | 7- | 19:06 |
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| * GheRivero moves the cat to another room | 19:06 | |
| devananda | rameshg87: doc update like that affects the website immediately (once it lands) so it doesn' tneed backporting | 19:06 |
| devananda | GheRivero: :) | 19:07 |
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| rameshg87 | devananda: thanks. | 19:07 |
| dtantsur | GheRivero, :D | 19:07 |
| NobodyCam | o/ | 19:07 |
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| devananda | any other comments on Juno? | 19:08 |
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| devananda | ok, well, please continue to test RC2 and tag any potentially critical bugs with juno-rc-potential. I'll spin another rev thursday, so we have a few days still | 19:09 |
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| devananda | #topic kilo planning | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "kilo planning (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:09 | |
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| devananda | this sort of has two parts that I'd like us to chat about | 19:09 |
| devananda | summit and specs | 19:09 |
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| devananda | I dont have any more news about the design summit than I did last week | 19:09 |
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| devananda | are there proposed sessions that folks want to talk about now? | 19:10 |
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| mrda | devananda: have you got a url? | 19:10 |
| devananda | ditto for specs -- and I assume theyll be related. if there's a big topic, it probably also has a related spec (or should!) | 19:10 |
| devananda | mrda: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XBKdeDeGfaRYaThjIIoYRwe_zPensECnxsKUuqdoVmQ/edit#gid=0 | 19:10 |
| mrda | ta | 19:10 |
| lucasagomes | we have many potential sessions proposed on the spreadsheet | 19:11 |
| jroll | so we've been voting for a week... I don't see a ton of votes :/ | 19:11 |
| lucasagomes | maybe we should set a date so people can vote and the most voted ones are selected to become a session? | 19:11 |
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| jroll | yeah, maybe just end of day friday | 19:11 |
| NobodyCam | lucasagomes: ++ | 19:11 |
| jroll | and make a ordered list for next mtg | 19:11 |
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| lucasagomes | jroll, that would be good | 19:11 |
| devananda | jroll: sure, sounds good | 19:12 |
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| devananda | as a reminder, we have 4 official slots on wed, 1 on thur, and a half day unconference on friday | 19:13 |
| NobodyCam | and the pod all week? | 19:13 |
| lucasagomes | for the unconference day there's no "format" for it right? | 19:13 |
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| devananda | yes, we should have a "pod" all week | 19:13 |
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| jroll | lucas, right | 19:14 |
| lucasagomes | I liked what we did on the last mid-cycle, remember the topics on the whiteboard? | 19:14 |
| devananda | which basically means a dedicated meeting point where a few folks can gather any time | 19:14 |
| lucasagomes | we should do something similar to that on friday maybe | 19:14 |
| devananda | but it probably won't be useful beyond ~10 ppl at once | 19:14 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: that's my plan for friday, yes | 19:14 |
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| lucasagomes | awesome | 19:15 |
| NobodyCam | for some of the smaller intress topics that should be good | 19:15 |
| jroll | we should come up with those topics in advance | 19:15 |
| jroll | so we don't spend half the time arguing over what to argue about :) | 19:15 |
| devananda | so, here's my thinking | 19:15 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, +1 yeah the spreadsheet :) | 19:15 |
| jroll | yep | 19:15 |
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| devananda | everyone votes on the spreasheed this week | 19:15 |
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| mrda | so we need to decide which topics get "official" slots and the rest we do like mid-cycle? | 19:15 |
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| jroll | mrda: yes | 19:15 |
| mrda | cool | 19:15 |
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| devananda | friday morning I'll tally things, assign 5 to official slots, and pick several "big ticket items" taht we should prioritize discussion of on friday | 19:16 |
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| devananda | then on Monday, let's go over that and adjust as necessary | 19:16 |
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| NobodyCam | devananda: that sounds good +1 | 19:16 |
| devananda | and during the week, lets use the pod for any impromptu hacking sessions that folks want to hve | 19:16 |
| jroll | +1 | 19:17 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, sounds like a plan | 19:17 |
| devananda | #action devananda to review votes on the session spreadsheet on Friday, come up with prioritized list for Monday's meeting | 19:17 |
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| devananda | ok. about specs for a minute -- | 19:17 |
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| devananda | I want to remind everyone that Kilo is open | 19:18 |
| devananda | but specs do not automatically move -- you need to rebase and update your spec if you submitted it during Juno | 19:18 |
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| devananda | #info specs submitted during Juno need to be updated for Kilo template, and moved to /kilo/ directory | 19:18 |
| devananda | (posting that ^ for the minutes for anyone not here) | 19:18 |
| pensu | jroll: devananda: We should really try to add this to kilo planning: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/102405/ | 19:19 |
| devananda | are there specific specs folks would like to talk about today? I'll cap at 10 minutes but we should pick a few to start working on next week | 19:19 |
| devananda | pensu: ++ | 19:20 |
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| lucasagomes | should we abandon the open specs for juno? | 19:21 |
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| lucasagomes | just to clean up the queue? | 19:21 |
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| devananda | lucasagomes: lets wait another week. | 19:21 |
| NobodyCam | lucasagomes: I say a week or so after the conf for something like that | 19:22 |
| lucasagomes | right | 19:22 |
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| devananda | lucasagomes: also if you're using gertty, it's easy to hide them | 19:22 |
| jroll | pensu: is that not on the spreadsheet? /me adds | 19:22 |
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| lucasagomes | it's not that the author can't restore it and submit a new one for kilo... it's just that when you open a list of open patches for ironic-specs there's a bunch of juno specs there and it's hard to sort between juno and kilo | 19:23 |
| lucasagomes | but yeah | 19:23 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, yeah I've to start using it | 19:23 |
| * lucasagomes writes it down | 19:23 | |
| devananda | lucasagomes: yea, using the web UI that would be challenging. in gerrty, my list for ironic-specs is .. about 10 unreviewed specs | 19:23 |
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| devananda | and I dont see anything else :) | 19:23 |
| NobodyCam | :-p | 19:24 |
| lucasagomes | :) yeah I'm setting up gertty heh | 19:24 |
| Shrews | I would start using gertty, but then I'd have to push something else out of my brain in order to learn it | 19:24 |
| devananda | Shrews: I pushed the gerrit web UI out of my brai | 19:24 |
| devananda | brain | 19:24 |
| devananda | I have just two words: keyboard shortcuts | 19:25 |
| devananda | anyway, if folks dont have specific specs to talk about, let's move on | 19:25 |
| lucasagomes | for those interested | 19:25 |
| lucasagomes | #link https://github.com/stackforge/gertty | 19:25 |
| devananda | #topic subteam status reports | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "subteam status reports (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:25 | |
| devananda | adam_g: hi! how's CI? | 19:26 |
| adam_g | okay--the parallel tests seem to be mostly stable, with the exception of one failure jroll reported today that i'm looking into | 19:26 |
| adam_g | our sideways grenade test is a bit jammed right now pending some grenade issues, but will hopefully be resolved this week and running again when stable/juno is up | 19:26 |
| adam_g | i'm working on ensuring the grenade juno -> kilo/master job is ready for that as well | 19:27 |
| NobodyCam | awesome :) | 19:27 |
| devananda | fantastic | 19:27 |
| devananda | dtantsur: hi! how's our bug backlog looking? | 19:27 |
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| dtantsur | Open: 88 (-1). 3 new (-1), 21 in progress (0), 0 critical, 9 high (0) and 4 incomplete (0) | 19:27 |
| dtantsur | everything calm, but I'm concerned by number of in progress | 19:28 |
| dtantsur | I'll probably start poking people next week | 19:28 |
| dtantsur | * this week | 19:28 |
| NobodyCam | I was going to ask do we want a bug swatting day? | 19:28 |
| devananda | adam_g: on the parallel job, let's not change anything before Juno final (end of this week) but if you are comfortable with it, I'd like to make it voting any time after that | 19:28 |
| devananda | NobodyCam: that might be a fun thing to do in person at the summit? | 19:28 |
| dtantsur | ++ for in person | 19:29 |
| NobodyCam | for our pod area !!! | 19:29 |
| devananda | pick a couple hour window when there aren't other things going on, gather in our POD and hack on bugs? | 19:29 |
| NobodyCam | ++ i'd buy that for a dollar (/me watched robocop this weekend) | 19:29 |
| devananda | who else'd be up for that? | 19:29 |
| lucasagomes | :) sounds good | 19:29 |
| adam_g | devananda, im okay with it voting under the assumption that people are okay with having to an occasional recheck if it fails for some non-obvious bug. we should start tracking those with elastic-recheck, if they happen | 19:29 |
| mrda | +1 | 19:29 |
| devananda | dtantsur: want to organize that? | 19:30 |
| devananda | adam_g: exactly | 19:30 |
| jroll | ++ for bug day | 19:30 |
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| dtantsur | devananda, likely yes | 19:30 |
| dtantsur | (though it's my first Summit and I barely imagine how thigs work there :) | 19:30 |
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| devananda | dtantsur: ahh. lucas? | 19:30 |
| NobodyCam | dtantsur: its a mad house no matter how much you plan :-p | 19:30 |
| jroll | dtantsur: talks, code, and chaos | 19:31 |
| dtantsur | lol | 19:31 |
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| devananda | dtantsur: not knowing the format will make it a bit challengign for you. chaos is a good way to put it :) | 19:31 |
| lucasagomes | yeah I can give a hand fo sure | 19:31 |
| devananda | great, thanks | 19:31 |
| dtantsur | cool :) | 19:31 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, we can do a hangout and come up with some ideas | 19:31 |
| jroll | "when other things aren't going on" is going to be hard due to various interests, we should identify a few slots and collaborate | 19:31 |
| dtantsur | right | 19:31 |
| devananda | jroll: there is never a time when all of us will be free | 19:31 |
| devananda | but I suspect things like that will work fairly well on tuesday | 19:32 |
| devananda | it's mostly cross project workshops that day | 19:32 |
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| jroll | right... I mean we should identify the best | 19:32 |
| jroll | tuesdya might be fine | 19:32 |
| devananda | I'll be in and out of several of those, but chances are more of us will be free then than on Wed (ironic and nova) and thu (ironic and nova ...) | 19:32 |
| jroll | yeah | 19:33 |
| devananda | GheRivero: hi! I think we missed you last week -- thanks for volunteering to continue to be oslo liason. | 19:33 |
| GheRivero | you are welcome. | 19:33 |
| GheRivero | A couple of announcements for today: | 19:34 |
| devananda | GheRivero: aside from the deprecated incubation libraries, which it looks like you and lucasagomes are already on top of (cheers!) | 19:34 |
| devananda | any thing else? | 19:34 |
| GheRivero | we are using oslo.serialization (jsonutils) landed this weekend | 19:34 |
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| GheRivero | synces libraries and new config and policy API is on the way (thx to lucasagomes and dims ) | 19:34 |
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| GheRivero | and oslo.logging is on is way... someday | 19:35 |
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| GheRivero | s/dims/Roman/ | 19:35 |
| GheRivero | nothing else | 19:36 |
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| lucasagomes | thanks GheRivero | 19:36 |
| devananda | thanks much, GheRivero ! | 19:37 |
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| devananda | on to drivers -- jroll, linggao, wanyen, lucas! Hi! any news/questions/updaets on your respective drivers? | 19:37 |
| jroll | I don't believe I do :) | 19:37 |
| NobodyCam | do we have an offical DRAC contact? | 19:38 |
| rameshg87 | nothing much to report from ilo driver team. no open items for juno except documentation of the drivers. we are working on few specs for kilo, will post them for review soon. | 19:38 |
| lucasagomes | only that DRAC problem | 19:38 |
| lucasagomes | NobodyCam, I volunteered to be the contact | 19:38 |
| NobodyCam | ++ | 19:38 |
| lucasagomes | I'm not the expert on it but since I've worke don it | 19:38 |
| NobodyCam | thank you lucasagomes | 19:38 |
| lucasagomes | and I have access to a DRAC box I think it may make some sense | 19:38 |
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| devananda | rameshg87: thanks | 19:39 |
| devananda | I do have one announcement in this section | 19:39 |
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| devananda | mirantis has spun up a project a whiel back to track the status of drivers in OpenStack | 19:39 |
| devananda | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/DriverLog | 19:39 |
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| devananda | they reached out to me to seed the content for Ironic last week -- it's now up, starting around this line | 19:40 |
| devananda | https://github.com/stackforge/driverlog/blob/master/etc/default_data.json#L880 | 19:40 |
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| lucasagomes | oh awesome | 19:40 |
| devananda | if there are any errors (wrong contact, misspelled name) it's entirely my fault, but please correct it | 19:40 |
| jroll | oh, I need to add others to the agent maintainers list | 19:40 |
| devananda | you can submit directly to the project in gerrit | 19:40 |
| jroll | yep | 19:41 |
| devananda | stackforge/driverlog | 19:41 |
| jroll | devananda: what does "vendor" mean? | 19:41 |
| jroll | e.g. for iLO, is HP the vendor because they make ilo? | 19:41 |
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| jroll | or because HP folks work on it | 19:41 |
| devananda | jroll: what company is responsible for contributing/maintaining it, I think | 19:41 |
| jroll | hmm, ok | 19:41 |
| rameshg87 | thanks devananda | 19:41 |
| jroll | I'd argue all in-tree drivers are the community responsibility, but ok :) | 19:41 |
| devananda | well | 19:42 |
| devananda | there've been several lengthy discussions in nova, neutron, and cinder as well | 19:42 |
| devananda | about who is responsible for ensuring / attesting to the quality of drivers | 19:42 |
| devananda | when the community at large has no access to such hardware | 19:42 |
| lucasagomes | heh in part it's but if nobody can test it it's hard to know whether it's working or not | 19:42 |
| jroll | ah, true | 19:42 |
| devananda | ironic falls into the same boat | 19:42 |
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| devananda | I would make a case taht IPA is community, since anyone can test and validate it | 19:43 |
| jroll | right | 19:43 |
| devananda | but iLO is the responsibility of HP, since they manufactor the hardware and contributed the driver | 19:43 |
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| devananda | tho DRAC gets murky since dell didn't contribute the driver... | 19:43 |
| jroll | that's why I asked, makes sense :) | 19:43 |
| devananda | moving on then | 19:44 |
| devananda | #topic open discussion | 19:44 |
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| lucasagomes | i've a question here... so when I was porting the config to use the oslo libraries | 19:44 |
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| lucasagomes | I thought it would be a good idea to split the sample config file in 3: all configs, api configs, conductor configs | 19:45 |
| lucasagomes | do you guys think that splitting it makes sense? or should we only have one sample config with all the configs ? | 19:45 |
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| NobodyCam | i did n't add to the agenda but wanted to gague what folk thought about targeting provisioning to a device other then sda! | 19:45 |
| lucasagomes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128005/ | 19:45 |
| jroll | hmm, I think 3 may be tough, because folks will need to merge them later | 19:45 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: I dont see a strong reason for us to put in the effort to maintaining that split. | 19:46 |
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| jroll | and how do you automatically decide, in code, which service it belongs to | 19:46 |
| NobodyCam | i like single file easy to grep | 19:46 |
| jroll | yes, +1 deva | 19:46 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: and as an operator, if there's no reason to separate the configs, then it only complicates things if I think I need to | 19:46 |
| lucasagomes | right I haven't a strong opnion on that later, I just saw other services (glance) doing that and thought it may be useful | 19:46 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, right yeah I agree with that | 19:46 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: I would ask how this benefits operators. if it does -- great. if not, we shouldn't do it | 19:47 |
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| lucasagomes | devananda, ML? | 19:47 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: sure | 19:47 |
| lucasagomes | right I will fire an email later to the ML asking | 19:47 |
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| jroll | one data point: we use the same configs on api and conductor hosts | 19:48 |
| lucasagomes | but for the next patchset I will just have 1 config (it's easy to break into multiple ones if needed) | 19:48 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, oh right, that's good to know | 19:48 |
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| devananda | NobodyCam: using arbitrary devices for '/' partition is going to introduce a host of complications | 19:48 |
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| devananda | NobodyCam: for one, the boot partition may be requried to be on a specific device which is not the user-selected one | 19:48 |
| NobodyCam | i have had a customer ask that question | 19:49 |
| lucasagomes | NobodyCam, right, can u say what was the use case? | 19:50 |
| devananda | NobodyCam: I could see that being part of the deploy info (assuming we separate boot & deploy), but I'd like to understand the use-case better | 19:50 |
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| devananda | Shrews: you posted something to the agenda as well - want to raise it? | 19:50 |
| Shrews | So, those hacking errors listed on the agenda are the remaining ones we are ignoring b/c they exist in our code. Does anyone feel strongly about keeping any of those? | 19:50 |
| NobodyCam | lucasagomes: the customer had data on sda that they wish to keep, so they install the OS on to sdb | 19:51 |
| lucasagomes | NobodyCam, ephemeral partition? | 19:51 |
| jroll | Shrews: IMO we should fix them all | 19:51 |
| devananda | NobodyCam: they want to use ironic with pre-existing data w/o destroying it? | 19:51 |
| lucasagomes | they can use the preserve_ephemeral flag | 19:51 |
| mrda | Shrews: How compliant are we? ie. how much work will be required to bring the code up to scratch? | 19:51 |
| NobodyCam | sda is TB in size | 19:51 |
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| Shrews | mrda: good question. there are A LOT of the E12? errors, but very few of the others | 19:52 |
| lucasagomes | oh diff disks hmmm | 19:52 |
| jroll | Shrews: though they are all indentation things... I tend to think our indentation is ok | 19:52 |
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| NobodyCam | they asked the question as that is wha there current deploy is doing | 19:52 |
| Shrews | jroll: this is an example of the E111 error: https://github.com/openstack/ironic/blob/master/ironic/drivers/modules/drac/management.py#L50 | 19:52 |
| mrda | If we could knock off the majority and leave the indentation ones, without much work, I'd say do it | 19:52 |
| jroll | Shrews: right, I think that's fine | 19:53 |
| lucasagomes | Shrews, (as author) heh I don't mind that | 19:53 |
| jroll | Shrews: I think E113, E129, and (maybe) E265 should be fixed | 19:53 |
| devananda | Shrews: ugh, E111 is really annoying to me. actually all of the E1** are annoying but not a big problem | 19:54 |
| devananda | mrda: E1** are all indentation related | 19:54 |
| Shrews | devananda: luckily, that was the ONLY E111 problem :) | 19:54 |
| lucasagomes | Shrews, you have any example of E265 handy? | 19:54 |
| * mrda needs to wake up | 19:54 | |
| Shrews | lucasagomes: something like: #NOTE(Shrews): blah blah | 19:54 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: I've only ever seen those with """ style comments | 19:55 |
| Shrews | instead of: # NOTE(Shrews) blah blah | 19:55 |
| lucasagomes | oh missing the space | 19:55 |
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| Shrews | yeah | 19:55 |
| lucasagomes | well... hmm | 19:55 |
| jroll | Shrews: really? | 19:55 |
| jroll | oh | 19:55 |
| lucasagomes | I like that space, but as it's a comment I wouldn't really care much | 19:55 |
| jroll | that | 19:55 |
| jroll | let's do this | 19:55 |
| jroll | clearly none of those matter a ton | 19:55 |
| Shrews | right. this is all nitpicking at this point | 19:55 |
| lucasagomes | failing on gate because of a space after # in a comment seems too much | 19:55 |
| jroll | if someone feels strongly about them, they can do the work to get rid of them | 19:55 |
| devananda | jroll: yes. '# NOTE(deva)' is correct. '#NOTE(deva)' is not. also, '""" NOTE(deva)' is not. | 19:56 |
| Shrews | i fixed the major ones already | 19:56 |
| NobodyCam | this could be a great batch of lhf | 19:56 |
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| devananda | so, this is stylistic sugar that will get someone easy commit stats | 19:56 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, we use some """ <blah> """ in the api | 19:56 |
| lucasagomes | as "docstrings" for the attributes | 19:56 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: that is actually a doc string | 19:56 |
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| devananda | not a comment | 19:56 |
| devananda | :) | 19:56 |
| lucasagomes | right | 19:56 |
| jroll | like, I would love to have all of those enabled, but I don't think anyone should do work to do this, unless they really care | 19:56 |
| devananda | that's fine | 19:56 |
| devananda | jroll: ++ | 19:56 |
| lucasagomes | yeah well I'm worrying if E269 would see it as a comment | 19:57 |
| Shrews | jroll: devananda: all but the E12? errors will be very easy to fix | 19:57 |
| jroll | someone will come along and think our code is horribly wrong because we ignore them, and they'll fix it | 19:57 |
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| NobodyCam | *two minute bell* | 19:58 |
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| devananda | NobodyCam: I think the answer is "not at this time". | 19:58 |
| NobodyCam | ack :) | 19:58 |
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| jroll | sounds like we're done... thanks everybody :) | 19:59 |
| devananda | NobodyCam: that they use /dev/sda for durable-state, and we use /dev/sda for operating system, was a design choice. We could make that a configuration option but then it runs into hardware limitations (eg, if the host requires /dev/sda to be bootable...) | 19:59 |
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| devananda | cheers, thanks all! | 19:59 |
| lucasagomes | thanks | 19:59 |
| NobodyCam | Thank you all :) great meeting | 19:59 |
| devananda | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 13 19:59:48 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| pensu | Thanks all! | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2014/ironic.2014-10-13-19.00.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2014/ironic.2014-10-13-19.00.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2014/ironic.2014-10-13-19.00.log.html | 19:59 |
| sdake | #startmeeting kolla | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 13 20:00:01 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sdake. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'kolla' | 20:00 |
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| sdake | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 20:00 | |
| sdake | \o/ | 20:00 |
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| rhallisey | hi | 20:00 |
| dvossel | hi! | 20:00 |
| daneyon_ | hola | 20:00 |
| jpeeler | yo | 20:00 |
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| GheRivero | o/ | 20:01 |
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| radez | hey ya'll | 20:01 |
| larsks | howdy. | 20:01 |
| sdake | #topic agenda | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 20:01 | |
| sdake | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Kolla | 20:01 |
| sdake | anyone have anything to add? | 20:02 |
| larsks | sdake: maybe something about summit? | 20:02 |
| sdake | sure we can add that at the end | 20:02 |
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| sdake | should b e a fast meeting anyway :) | 20:02 |
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| sdake | #topic becoming core | 20:02 |
| jlabocki | here! | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "becoming core (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 20:02 | |
| portante | portante: here | 20:03 |
| sdake | I see folks not on the core team buildilng code and executing reviews | 20:03 |
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| sdake | it would make sense to expand our core team when we thinkj is appropriate to include these new core contributors | 20:03 |
| sdake | what I have seen work well in the past is 1/2 the core team must +1 candidate | 20:03 |
| sdake | with no -1 votes | 20:03 |
| sdake | (-1 = veto) | 20:03 |
| sdake | core candidate must be cracking on reviews | 20:04 |
| sdake | and doing some code development | 20:04 |
| sdake | any objections to this process? | 20:04 |
| daneyon_ | no | 20:04 |
| sdake | could I get a +1/-1 from the core review team plz | 20:04 |
| larsks | sounds fine by me. voting to happen...on the mailing list? | 20:04 |
| sdake | yes on ml | 20:04 |
| larsks | +1 | 20:04 |
| sdake | lets vote now make sure everyone happy :) | 20:04 |
| sdake | +1 | 20:04 |
| rhallisey | +1 | 20:04 |
| radez | +1 | 20:05 |
| sdake | jlabocki jpeeler dvossel thoughts? | 20:05 |
| jlabocki | +1 | 20:05 |
| dvossel | +1 | 20:05 |
| jlabocki | sorry, stops multitasking | 20:05 |
| jpeeler | +1 | 20:05 |
| sdake | :) | 20:05 |
| sdake | ok cool so we will do that | 20:05 |
| sdake | and we can reference this wonderful irc log when someone complains :) | 20:05 |
| sdake | #topic staying on top of reviews | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "staying on top of reviews (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 20:06 | |
| sdake | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:stackforge/kolla,n,z | 20:06 |
| sdake | so review queue been getting a bit long | 20:06 |
| sdake | if folks could spend 5-10 minutes a day just looking at the queue and approving stuff, that would rock :) | 20:06 |
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| sdake | as is, sometimes patches sit for 3-4 days | 20:06 |
| sdake | when they are basic 1 liners | 20:06 |
| * larsks aplogizes for making it *really* long today. | 20:06 | |
| jrist | o/ | 20:06 |
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| rhallisey | go larsks! | 20:07 |
| sdake | any objections ? :) | 20:07 |
| portante | sdake: this happens on other projects as well | 20:07 |
| sdake | yes I know | 20:07 |
| * jrist thinks sdake is all too familiar | 20:07 | |
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| sdake | #topic Bashate gate fixing day | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bashate gate fixing day (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 20:07 | |
| sdake | gates rock | 20:07 |
| sdake | busted nonvoting g ates, not so much | 20:08 |
| sdake | I think what should work here is I'll add bugs for all the bashate failing software | 20:08 |
| sdake | and we can crank out a bashate fixing d ay on 16th or 17th | 20:08 |
| sdake | and then turn the gate on | 20:08 |
| sdake | 350 bashate failures atm | 20:08 |
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| larsks | sdake: but it looks like those are erroneous right now. | 20:09 |
| larsks | sdake: the gate *itself* seems to be broken. | 20:09 |
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| sdake | I think what this will look like is each of our core devs get 3-4 bugs to fix | 20:09 |
| larsks | tox -v -ebashate --> ERROR: unknown environment 'bashate' | 20:09 |
| larsks | so we shouldn't try fixing anything until the gate script is working correctly. | 20:09 |
| sdake | larsks our bashate gate isn't integrated with tox | 20:09 |
| sdake | although we could do that | 20:09 |
| larsks | sdake: then it needs fixing. | 20:09 |
| larsks | because that is the output from jenkins. | 20:09 |
| sdake | the upstream gating is working though | 20:09 |
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| larsks | E.g., http://logs.openstack.org/78/128078/1/check/gate-kolla-bashate/3ca35e4/console.html | 20:09 |
| larsks | That is the output from the upstream gating. | 20:10 |
| sdake | ok, well we can fix that easily enough | 20:10 |
| sdake | that is local to our tox env | 20:10 |
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| larsks | Yup. Just saying, we don't actually know how many bashate related failures we have right now. | 20:10 |
| sdake | I ran locally - 350 | 20:10 |
| larsks | Okay. | 20:10 |
| sdake | bashate ./ ;) | 20:10 |
| sdake | #topic milestone #1 announcement | 20:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "milestone #1 announcement (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 20:11 | |
| larsks | So, you will fix the gate? | 20:11 |
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| sdake | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-1-ann | 20:11 |
| sdake | larsks if I don't someone else will :) | 20:11 |
| sdake | so I was thinking we should have an announcement email | 20:11 |
| sdake | announce likely on Oct 21 (tuesday) @ 10AM est | 20:12 |
| larsks | sdake: I am looking to have fixing the gate be an action item for a sepcific person before we move on. | 20:12 |
| sdake | ok I'll take it larsks | 20:12 |
| larsks | Yay! | 20:12 |
| sdake | if folks want to open that etherpad | 20:12 |
| sdake | feel free to edit away | 20:13 |
| sdake | just looking over the announce, is there anything that seems problematic? | 20:13 |
| sdake | I'll give folks a couple minutes to read it | 20:13 |
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| larsks | do we have function nova controller/compute containers? | 20:13 |
| sdake | we will by friday | 20:13 |
| larsks | okay. there is no link to the Heat templates in the etherpad; we should probably add that. | 20:14 |
| sdake | we have semi-working ones now | 20:14 |
| larsks | oh wait, there it is. | 20:14 |
| jpeeler | is friday the last day of dev for milestone 1? | 20:14 |
| larsks | never mind. | 20:14 |
| sdake | jpeeler yup | 20:14 |
| radez | is the network expected to run not in a conatiner yet? | 20:14 |
| jlabocki | sdake: what about developers who don't have an openstack environment … i.e. - on a disconnected laptop? Is there a way to make development environment lighter weight? | 20:14 |
| sdake | radez you mean neutron? | 20:14 |
| radez | right, there's not a neutron container listed | 20:15 |
| larsks | jlabocki: if someone wants to put together a vagrant-based guide or something that might help out. In theory the upstream k8s one might work. | 20:15 |
| sdake | jlabocki I really don't know - could install k8s locally but there would be some pain involed | 20:15 |
| radez | so will that just not run in a container? | 20:15 |
| sdake | radez ya we don't have neutron in a container, thats m2 | 20:15 |
| radez | ack | 20:15 |
| jlabocki | larsks: sdake: ack | 20:15 |
| daneyon_ | I am working on the neutron bp. I am ready to submit a review for a functioning neutron-server, still need the agents and plugin. | 20:15 |
| sdake | #topic Milestone #1 blueprint review | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Milestone #1 blueprint review (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 20:15 | |
| daneyon_ | What about adding nova-network to the nova-controller container work? | 20:16 |
| sdake | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kolla/milestone-1 | 20:16 |
| sdake | daneyon_ I think that should probably be done | 20:16 |
| larsks | daneyon_: sdake: I think that might be too much to get done if our deadline is this friday. | 20:16 |
| daneyon_ | I know of many deployments that are on nova-net and plan on staying put for a while. | 20:16 |
| larsks | But a good first step for m2, maybe? | 20:16 |
| sdake | which, nova-compute? | 20:16 |
| daneyon_ | agreed. | 20:16 |
| sdake | nova is pretty much set | 20:17 |
| jlabocki | what part of nova? | 20:17 |
| sdake | it just needs debugging | 20:17 |
| sdake | and configing | 20:17 |
| sdake | nova-controller and nova-compute | 20:17 |
| sdake | so glance container dradez is that one blue->green? | 20:17 |
| jlabocki | nova-conductor? | 20:18 |
| sdake | kube-glance-conatianer | 20:18 |
| larsks | sdake: glance container works with those patches I just submitted. | 20:18 |
| sdake | ok well lets mark it done | 20:18 |
| sdake | dradez if you would please :) | 20:18 |
| sdake | libvirt - so stauts on that | 20:18 |
| radez | sure thing | 20:18 |
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| sdake | working pretty well i think, but hard to test wihtout a real workload | 20:18 |
| daneyon_ | with larsks linkmanager, i think i can pull off the neutron agents/ml2 plugin using a single phy interface and create an add'l bridge vxlan network for floating ip's. | 20:18 |
| sdake | been blocked on busted keystone, but now that we have a working dependency chain, we should be set | 20:18 |
| rhallisey | jlabocki, conductor, scheduler, novnvproxy are in the controller | 20:18 |
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| rhallisey | and maybe network now? | 20:19 |
| sdake | rhallisey mind giving us an update on nova-container blueprint | 20:19 |
| larsks | daneyon_: that would be pretty spiffy. | 20:19 |
| sdake | jpeeler, any update on kube-heat-container? | 20:20 |
| rhallisey | sdake, I have a bunch more cofig work then hopefully things shouldn't be to bad | 20:20 |
| sdake | rhallisey try to push up as soon as you ahve something functional | 20:20 |
| sdake | because I need it for compute :) | 20:20 |
| jpeeler | i need to sort out how the proper env variables are passed around and test | 20:20 |
| sdake | we can beutify lateer | 20:20 |
| sdake | which env variables you looking for jpeeler? | 20:21 |
| larsks | jpeeler: in fact, at some point we will have to face the general problem of how to configure and orchestrate the entire set of containers. | 20:21 |
| daneyon_ | larsks: i may ned to ping u offline if i run into any issues trying to implement. I'm diggin connectivity manager... you're the man! | 20:21 |
| jlabocki | larsks: we will call that point value | 20:21 |
| sdake | larsks I have that targeted for m#2 | 20:21 |
| jlabocki | :) | 20:21 |
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| jpeeler | sdake: things like KEYSTONE_ADMIN_PORT_35357_TCP_ADDR. i'll have to look more in a few | 20:22 |
| sdake | check out kolla-cli and k8s-rest-library | 20:22 |
| daneyon_ | +1 to ansible for container orchestration. | 20:22 |
| sdake | jpeeler just feel free to ask | 20:22 |
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| larsks | jpeeler: those are set automatically by kubernetes based on service descriptions. | 20:22 |
| sdake | daneyon_ I like to get a non-beutified implementation working | 20:23 |
| sdake | we can gold plate later ;-) | 20:23 |
| larsks | I am trying to simplify those to ..._SERVICE_HOST in all cases. | 20:23 |
| sdake | #topic Milestone #1 bug review | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Milestone #1 bug review (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 20:23 | |
| sdake | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla/milestone-1 | 20:23 |
| sdake | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla | 20:24 |
| sdake | actual bugs ^ | 20:24 |
| sdake | 1379057 needs attention, I think larsks said he had fixed it in his latest patch spam | 20:25 |
| sdake | 1377034 - isn't that fixed larsks? | 20:25 |
| larsks | sdake: dunno, pulling up bug right now so I can see what it is... | 20:25 |
| larsks | https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla/+bug/1379057 is fixed. | 20:25 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1379057 in kolla "if keystone starts first, spam of errors" [Critical,Triaged] | 20:25 |
| sdake | lag ftw | 20:25 |
| larsks | https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla/+bug/1377034 is also fixed | 20:26 |
| sdake | ok I marked it as such | 20:26 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1377034 in kolla/milestone-1 "keystone should idempotently create users, endpoints, and services" [Undecided,New] | 20:26 |
| sdake | #topic 1 hr project slot for ODS (OpenStack Developer Summit) | 20:26 |
| jpeeler | larsks: i didn't see a way to make crux only create a role, can it not do that? | 20:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "1 hr project slot for ODS (OpenStack Developer Summit) (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 20:26 | |
| sdake | Thierry was akind enough to grant us a 1 hour developer slot | 20:27 |
| sdake | I wont be at summit, but larsks and radez will, who will lead the session | 20:27 |
| larsks | jpeeler: it can't right now, but you can always create the role as part of creating a user. I can make it do that if there's a good case for it. | 20:27 |
| sdake | its a 1 hour slot, so I don't expect you will solve world peice ;) | 20:27 |
| larsks | jpeeler: ping me after the meeting. | 20:27 |
| radez | larsks: could we plan for you to and I'll fly backup? | 20:27 |
| larsks | radez: sure. | 20:28 |
| sdake | anything you wnated to add larsks? | 20:28 |
| larsks | I'm good. If people have some free time this afternoon/evening/whatever time it is locally to look at that chunk of patches I just dropped, that would be awesome. | 20:29 |
| daneyon_ | larsks: Re ODS, I have a Heat talk with @pythondj. Are you OK if I highlight your heat-kube template and possibly demo it? | 20:29 |
| sdake | yes please take a look | 20:29 |
| radez | larsks: I'm working through the patches now, a couple didn't merge clean | 20:29 |
| larsks | radez: Huh, they should if they are approved in order. | 20:29 |
| larsks | Note the depends on/depended by information. | 20:29 |
| jlabocki | larks: radez: please link me to the slot you get, I will put at the end of the summit presentation we have on it to drive more people to it | 20:29 |
| radez | is that top to bottom or bottom to top? | 20:29 |
| larsks | daneyon_: sure, you are welcome to use those templates. | 20:30 |
| radez | jlabocki: sure will | 20:30 |
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| larsks | radez: I'm not sure. "depends on" means "is required before this patch" | 20:30 |
| larsks | radez: I can't parse bottom/top correctly :) | 20:30 |
| radez | ah, gotcha... I may have gone backwards.... | 20:30 |
| sdake | #topic open discussion | 20:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 20:30 | |
| daneyon_ | larsks: I'll shoot you the info on the talk. You're welcome to attend if it works with your schedule. | 20:30 |
| sdake | ok folks any open discussion? | 20:31 |
| larsks | I have something for open discussion... | 20:31 |
| sdake | shoot larsks | 20:31 |
| larsks | I was looking at persistent storage for k8s this weekend. I have a modified version of those heat templates that sets up a gluster cluster, at which point I was able to migrate mysql and glance containers between minions and have things keep working. | 20:31 |
| larsks | It was nifty. | 20:31 |
| larsks | I think it makes a good solution for the lack of persistent storage in k8s right now... | 20:32 |
| larsks | ...and maybe it's a longer term one, too. | 20:32 |
| sdake | gluster runs on bare metal then? | 20:32 |
| daneyon_ | +1 | 20:32 |
| rhallisey | cool | 20:32 |
| larsks | Gluster runs on the same hosts as k8s. | 20:32 |
| sdake | cool - just need some k8s linkage | 20:33 |
| larsks | With a magical autofs mountpoint so that gluster volumes are immediately available at /gluster/<volname> around the cluster. | 20:33 |
| sdake | right? | 20:33 |
| larsks | Well, no. k8s already has the necessary support via volumes with a hostDir source. | 20:33 |
| larsks | So mostly, it Just Works. | 20:33 |
| larsks | I can through together some examples. | 20:33 |
| larsks | errr, "throw" | 20:34 |
| larsks | wow. | 20:34 |
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| daneyon_ | larsks: will cinder/gluster use the vxlan or eth0 for replication? | 20:34 |
| larsks | daneyon_: eth0 (it's a host service) | 20:34 |
| larsks | patches are in this branch: https://github.com/larsks/heat-kubernetes/tree/feature/gluster | 20:35 |
| larsks | No guarantees about functionality/stability at this point. | 20:35 |
| larsks | That's all I've got. | 20:35 |
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| sdake | cool nice work larsks | 20:36 |
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| sdake | I'll have to check it out when I'm unswamped :) | 20:36 |
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| sdake | the first heat-kub* code rocked ! | 20:36 |
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| sdake | hey shardy_z | 20:36 |
| sdake | any other open discussion? | 20:36 |
| sdake | ok then, reminder to stay on top of the review queue and look for bugs for bashate to be assigned by wed ;) | 20:37 |
| sdake | #endmeeting | 20:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:37 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 13 20:37:13 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:37 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2014/kolla.2014-10-13-20.00.html | 20:37 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2014/kolla.2014-10-13-20.00.txt | 20:37 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2014/kolla.2014-10-13-20.00.log.html | 20:37 |
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| dvossel | sdake, reviews, where are they done? | 20:38 |
| larsks | dvossel: review.openstack.org | 20:38 |
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| mestery | hi | 20:57 |
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| glebo | yo | 20:58 |
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| carl_baldwin | hi | 20:58 |
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| sweston | Greetings! | 20:59 |
| Swami | hi | 20:59 |
| salv-orlando | aloha | 20:59 |
| regXboi | moo | 20:59 |
| mestery | sweston: Great to see you here sir. :) | 20:59 |
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| * sweston thank you :-) Good to be here :-) | 20:59 | |
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| sweston | mestery: thank you, good to be here :-) | 21:00 |
| ChuckC | o/ | 21:00 |
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| mestery | carl_baldwin markmcclain rkukura SumitNaiksatam emagana arosen amotoki garyk marun: Neutron meeting | 21:01 |
| marun | hi | 21:01 |
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| rkukura | hi | 21:01 |
| Sukhdev | Hello | 21:01 |
| carl_baldwin | hi | 21:01 |
| emagana | hola! | 21:01 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: hi | 21:01 |
| kevinbenton | Hi | 21:01 |
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| gus | hi | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | hi | 21:01 |
| fawadkhaliq | hello! | 21:02 |
| mestery | OK, lets get started. | 21:02 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 21:02 |
| dougwig | o/ | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 13 21:02:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 21:02 |
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| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 21:02 |
| mestery | #topic Announcements | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:02 | |
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| mestery | We released our second RC for Juno last week | 21:02 |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/juno-rc2 | 21:02 |
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| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/juno/juno-rc2/+download/neutron-2014.2.rc2.tar.gz | 21:02 |
| mestery | Thanks to all who helped with bugs near the end! | 21:02 |
| mestery | At this point, I'm not aware of any RC issues which would cause a third RC to be released. | 21:03 |
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| mestery | If anyone knows of anyone, lets discuss during the bugs portion of the meeting. | 21:03 |
| mestery | I would encourage folks to test out the RC2 release as it's likely to be the official 2014.2 release of Neutron. | 21:03 |
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| mestery | If anyone finds a release critical bug, please tag it with "juno-rc-potential" and make sure you email me or find me on IRC so I'm aware. | 21:03 |
| mestery | Any questions on the state of Neutron in Juno? | 21:04 |
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| mestery | I also wanted to highlight the release notes for Neutron are being worked on actively now as well. | 21:04 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Juno#OpenStack_Network_Service_.28Neutron.29 | 21:04 |
| mestery | Feel free to suggest updates there as well. | 21:04 |
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| mestery | One final announcement: I've changed the format of the weekly Neutron meeting, per email to the list today: | 21:05 |
| mestery | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-October/048328.html | 21:05 |
| mestery | The hope is this allows for more collaboration rather than a simple status report each week. | 21:05 |
| marun | +100 | 21:05 |
| mestery | Thanks to carl_baldwin for updating a lot of wiki pages today on this front! | 21:05 |
| markmcclain | +100 | 21:06 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move along then. | 21:06 |
| mestery | #topic Bugs | 21:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:06 | |
| mestery | enikanorov_: Here? | 21:06 |
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| mestery | I've been focused on RC candidate bugs for the past week, if anyone has any updates on other bugs which should be on our radar, please jump in here. | 21:07 |
| matrohon | hi : lot of dicussions on this one : https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1361540 | 21:08 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1361540 in neutron "no mechanism driver calls for gateway port removal" [High,In progress] | 21:08 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: How come all the ones with juno-rc-potential bugs did not make rc2? | 21:08 |
| mestery | matrohon: Yes, we had spoken about this, and I had chatted with markmcclain the past Friday on this one. | 21:08 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: A variety of reasons: Not being a release blocker, not being merged in master are the most likely ones. | 21:08 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1361540 | 21:09 |
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| mestery | matrohon: Are you still of the opinion that 1361540 is an RC candidate bug given our discussion last week? | 21:09 |
| markmcclain | mestery: still would like to better understand armax's concern on that one | 21:10 |
| regXboi | mestery: this is just the tip of the iceberg | 21:10 |
| markmcclain | seems a simplified fix would be better | 21:10 |
| regXboi | the whole external gateway code doesn't handle state on deletes correctly | 21:10 |
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| matrohon | mestery : this has backend side effects, garyk seems to agree that this is a huge bg | 21:11 |
| regXboi | the order of operations is not correctly reversed before new state is applied - we've had to code around this issue internally | 21:11 |
| mestery | regXboi: Is there another bug filed for this? I imagine you discovered this while looking at code recently? | 21:11 |
| matrohon | markmcclain :i've tried to do it as simple as I could! | 21:11 |
| regXboi | mestery: no on the bug filing - I've been trying to boil it down to the minimal fix needed | 21:12 |
| mestery | regXboi: Ack. Can you file one to track the issue, especially if it affects 1361540 which is under review now? | 21:12 |
| regXboi | and if by recently, you mean in this cycle, then yes | 21:12 |
| rkukura | Isn’t the fix here to do deletion by calling the plugin? | 21:12 |
| regXboi | mestery: give me an action and I'll file something | 21:13 |
| mestery | #action rkukura to file bug for external gw code deletions | 21:13 |
| mestery | #undo | 21:13 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x32bff10> | 21:13 |
| mestery | #action regXboi to file bug for external gw code deletions | 21:13 |
| regXboi | mestery: ack | 21:13 |
| amotoki | what about https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1378525 ? | 21:14 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1378525 in neutron "Broken L3 HA migration should be blocked" [High,Fix committed] | 21:14 |
| amotoki | woops wrong link. | 21:14 |
| mestery | amotoki: Looking | 21:14 |
| * mestery waits | 21:14 | |
| matrohon | rkukura : markmcclain's cleanup previous patch introduced more calls to _delete_port, bypassing core_plugin | 21:15 |
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| rkukura | matrohon: sounds like this needs to be fixed | 21:15 |
| regXboi | rkukura: as I remember it, the issue is one of state | 21:15 |
| regXboi | because the linear algebra of the operations is wrong | 21:15 |
| amotoki | mestery: the link is correct. | 21:15 |
| amotoki | mestery: The bug proposes to prohibit L3 HA attribute update | 21:16 |
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| markmcclain | mestery: +1 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126706/ if RC3 opens | 21:17 |
| amotoki | it is an API change and worth considered for RC. | 21:17 |
| mestery | amotoki: This seems like a candidate, yes, but I don't know if it's a release blocker itself. | 21:17 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Looking | 21:17 |
| markmcclain | mestery: but it's not a release blocker | 21:17 |
| markmcclain | I think that we can release note that there is an error in the API there | 21:17 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Exactly. If we find something else, I'll cherry-pick that one in. | 21:17 |
| amotoki | agree it is not a release blocker. | 21:17 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Ack. | 21:17 |
| markmcclain | we did that previously | 21:17 |
| mestery | #action mestery to add release note for https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1378525 indicating the error with the API. | 21:18 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1378525 in neutron "Broken L3 HA migration should be blocked" [High,Fix committed] | 21:18 |
| mestery | Any other bugs for discussion? | 21:18 |
| matrohon | pleasa have a look to : https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1372438 | 21:18 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1372438 in neutron "Race condition in l2pop drops tunnels" [Medium,In progress] | 21:18 |
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| matrohon | the patch is ready, it re introduce a previous merged patch, deleted by DVR stuff | 21:18 |
| matrohon | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123403/ | 21:19 |
| mestery | matrohon: Lets get that one into master by tomorrow so if we do roll an RC3 I can cherry-pick it back. | 21:19 |
| mestery | Looks like carl_baldwin has some issues with that patch at the moment from looking at the review. | 21:19 |
| carl_baldwin | Mostly surprised that no UTs are affected. | 21:20 |
| mestery | These are all good fixes, but I don't think they are release blockers at the moment. | 21:20 |
| * marun is not so surprised | 21:21 | |
| matrohon | mestery : thanks, e and vivek are trying to addrees the UT issue, but i'ts really difficult to produce race conditions with UT | 21:21 |
| mestery | matrohon: Ack | 21:21 |
| carl_baldwin | marun: Not so much surprised as saddened. :’( | 21:21 |
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| mestery | Any additional bugs anyone wants to bringup with the broader team here? | 21:22 |
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| mestery | #topic Docs | 21:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:23 | |
| mestery | emagana: Hi there! | 21:23 |
| emagana | Hi! | 21:23 |
| mestery | How are Juno docs looking? | 21:23 |
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| emagana | not sure how to answer that... | 21:23 |
| emagana | lol | 21:23 |
| mestery | lol | 21:23 |
| emagana | well, I have a broader question | 21:23 |
| emagana | Does Neutron team consider DVR and L3 HA stable features ready for production? | 21:24 |
| marun | that is a very good question | 21:24 |
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| mestery | emagana: Is this in the context of how much we document or simply how we label them? | 21:24 |
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| marun | given the relative lack of comprehensive testing for these rather complicated features, I would be interested to hear arguments suggesting that they are ready for production. | 21:24 |
| Swami | Do you have any concerns. | 21:24 |
| emagana | Ok, that was the question from the Docs Folks | 21:25 |
| emagana | The plan is to document what is stable and ready for production | 21:25 |
| emagana | in the installation guide which is one of the top ones | 21:25 |
| emagana | So, the point is these features will not be covered in the installation guide but will be covered in the networking guide | 21:26 |
| Swami | emagana: we can help the documentation effort for the dvr. | 21:26 |
| mestery | emagana: I think that sounds like a fair assessment. | 21:26 |
| mestery | Swami: Does that sound ok to you? | 21:26 |
| emagana | Swami: Thanks! I count with that help, but the question here is if NEUTRON team recommends to use these features yet?? | 21:27 |
| Swami | I need to understand what is blocking us from documeting or stating that the dvr is not production ready. | 21:27 |
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| marun | I think you can guess at my vote | 21:27 |
| marun | Swami: how about some testing that it works? | 21:27 |
| Swami | marun: what kind of test results are you expecting. | 21:27 |
| carl_baldwin | Are there any known production deployments? | 21:28 |
| emagana | Swami: Dont take this wrong but our experience with shinny good looking new features is not the best one once a bigger community start testing them | 21:28 |
| marun | Swami: I'm expecting test plans for all major use cases and implementations of those test plans. | 21:28 |
| markmcclain | carl_baldwin: none that I know of | 21:28 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: +1 to markmcclain's comments, especially given how new it is. | 21:28 |
| emagana | carl_baldwin: for Neutron many! | 21:28 |
| salv-orlando | I don’t even know what we are talking about. | 21:29 |
| carl_baldwin | emagana: I meant deployments that use either new feature. | 21:29 |
| emagana | carl_baldwin: using those features obviously none but they will consider to use them if we declare them stable enough | 21:29 |
| salv-orlando | we’ve never ever in our craziest days suggested a feature or component was production ready in the 1st release where it appeared | 21:29 |
| emagana | I want the team to vote how to declare those features | 21:29 |
| marun | salv-orlando++ | 21:29 |
| emagana | mestery: What is your opinion? | 21:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | perhaps a chicken and egg quesion, how will people start using a feature if its not made available in the docs? | 21:29 |
| amotoki | At least I think dvr and l3-ha are new featrues and they are not mature compared to other core plugins. | 21:29 |
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| mestery | I think it's hard to call a brand new feature production ready out of the gate. | 21:30 |
| mestery | Now, we expect people to use it and deploy it and report issues. | 21:30 |
| carl_baldwin | +1 | 21:30 |
| emagana | OK, The proposal is this: | 21:30 |
| mestery | But if no one is using it, it's hard to say it's production quality | 21:30 |
| mestery | My $0.02 | 21:30 |
| salv-orlando | folks - are we discussing if they are production ready or if they should be documented? | 21:30 |
| marun | emagana: unless we've seen considerable usage from customers (and responded to the issues involved), or we have comprehensive testing, of course it isn't production-ready yet. | 21:30 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: yes I agree. | 21:30 |
| mestery | SumitNaiksatam: It will be in the networking guide, just not the install guide. | 21:30 |
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| salv-orlando | to me both questions are no brainers honestly | 21:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: ah okay | 21:30 |
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| mestery | salv-orlando: A voice of sanity :) | 21:31 |
| mestery | DVR is not production ready and needs to be documented. | 21:31 |
| emagana | Declare that these features are new and certain amount of external testing is needed (This is going to be in the Install Guide) | 21:31 |
| mestery | Do people agree? | 21:31 |
| emagana | On the networking guide we will document them properly | 21:31 |
| marun | ++ | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | emagana: +1 | 21:31 |
| mestery | Is that the gist of the argument here? | 21:31 |
| amotoki | emagana: +1 | 21:31 |
| mestery | emagana: +1 | 21:31 |
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| carl_baldwin | +1 | 21:31 |
| kevinbenton | so we agree to say it’s production ready and not to document it, right? | 21:32 |
| * mestery throws tomatoes at kevinbenton. | 21:32 | |
| mestery | :P | 21:32 |
| Swami | +1 | 21:32 |
| marun | kevinbenton: +1 ;) | 21:32 |
| glebo | emagana: +1 | 21:32 |
| * pc_m incubated feature? proof of concept? | 21:32 | |
| emagana | so, install guide will be ready :-) | 21:32 |
| rkukura | Too bad we don’t have a preview subtree ;) | 21:32 |
| emagana | Networking guide will take more time and will be completed during kilo release | 21:33 |
| mestery | emagana: I figured as much there. :) | 21:33 |
| glebo | kevinbenton: not quite. I heard: it's not production ready, it will be mentioned in install guide as shiny new, and will be documented in networking guide. Right? | 21:33 |
| kevinbenton | glebo: +1 | 21:33 |
| carl_baldwin | glebo: +1 that is what I heard too. | 21:34 |
| glebo | my "right" was meant for emagana | 21:34 |
| glebo | emagana: right? | 21:34 |
| Sukhdev | mestery emagana: Can you summarize the conclusion? | 21:34 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: See glebo's response above. | 21:34 |
| glebo | cut n paste my @kevinbenton | 21:34 |
| mestery | emagana: An exciting doc's update this week! | 21:35 |
| glebo | *cross talk* | 21:35 |
| emagana | Sukhdev: Install guide will mention that DVR and L3 HA are new features and more testing is required to be declared stable | 21:35 |
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| Sukhdev | emagana: Thanks | 21:35 |
| emagana | Sukhdev: Networking guide will describe both features | 21:35 |
| markmcclain | install docs have always trailed the release of production features, so I think that emagana's proposal is following what we've done for cycles now | 21:36 |
| emagana | If somebody wants to be part of the Networking-Docs discussions we meet every Frydat 9:00 pst | 21:36 |
| Sukhdev | emagana: So, will I have enough documentation, if I wanted to play with these features and try them out, right? | 21:36 |
| glebo | emagana: and probably ought to mention that they are <queue show host voice over> making their big debut | 21:36 |
| emagana | glebo: Yes! | 21:36 |
| mestery | markmcclain: ++ | 21:37 |
| emagana | Sukhdev: Not right away, ENtworking guide will take more time. All focus are on Install guide and Admin Guide | 21:37 |
| emagana | ENtworking = Networking | 21:37 |
| mestery | emagana: Any other doc updates for us today? | 21:37 |
| emagana | mestery wants to suffer more today! | 21:38 |
| mestery | emagana: :P | 21:38 |
| emagana | mestery: No more! | 21:38 |
| mestery | Thanks sir! | 21:38 |
| mestery | #topic On-Demand Agenda | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "On-Demand Agenda (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:38 | |
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| mestery | So, per the new meeting format, we'll walk through today's On-Demand agenda | 21:38 |
| mestery | First up, a new peer review process for core reviewers has been proposed: | 21:38 |
| mestery | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-peer-review | 21:38 |
| mestery | Please see the etherpad page for the goals behind this process and for the format of the review process. | 21:39 |
| mestery | We're going to try this out in Kilo and see how it goes. | 21:39 |
| * mestery notes everyone is likely reading now. | 21:40 | |
| regXboi | so I see two proposals on that page | 21:40 |
| regXboi | *which one* will be tried in Kilo, or both :) | 21:40 |
| marun | regXboi: I think that's up to the team to decide. | 21:41 |
| mestery | regXboi: What marun said. | 21:41 |
| regXboi | ok, that wasn't 100% clear from mestery's text | 21:41 |
| marun | regXboi: It's a proposal, not a fait accompli, and everyone's input will be considered before we go forward. | 21:41 |
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| emagana | mestery: Is this process new for all OpenStack? | 21:42 |
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| Sukhdev | mestery: Good write up and makes a lot of sense | 21:42 |
| marun | emagana: Neutron only at this point. | 21:42 |
| mestery | emagana: No, we're the first ones to try it. :) | 21:42 |
| emagana | mestery: My opinion is that brings a lot of overload to the review process but I could be understanding it wrong! | 21:43 |
| mestery | emagana: That was my concern as well, but the idea is to collect relevant data around Neutron cores and provide valid feedback to people. | 21:43 |
| marun | emagana: We definitely don't want to add process for its own sake, so the goal is balancing the benefits with the cost. | 21:43 |
| mestery | emagana: Hopefuilly we'll try this out and adjust accordingly. | 21:43 |
| glebo | while reading it, the first thing I thought of was a reputation system that people interacting with a reviewer can submit, with # of stars out of 5, and comments section, either with or without name attached. Not unlike rating an app in app store, or a seller in ebay | 21:44 |
| marun | emagana: If you have suggestions for how to achieve some of the stated goals differently, that would be great to hear about. | 21:44 |
| mestery | glebo: Lets hope contributors don't think of core reviewers as "apps in app store" :P | 21:44 |
| marun | emagana: Also, the alternate proposal included might be a lower-cost way of achieving a similar result. | 21:44 |
| emagana | mestery: I like better the second proposal but removing the anonymously part. We are all professional who can take feedback properly | 21:44 |
| marun | emagana: I think you're wrong on that point. | 21:44 |
| glebo | mestery: lmao! | 21:45 |
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| glebo | mestery: heavens, no! just trying to think of a very quick, painless way to begin collecting interaction-based data | 21:45 |
| emagana | Besides, if I am not performing to the expected level, there should be a proper enhancement plan and if after that things dont change then bye bye | 21:45 |
| marun | emagana: It's a common phenomenon that people are nice in public because they don't want to be mean or hurt someone's feelings. Anon feedback is a way of leveling things. | 21:46 |
| Sukhdev | Folks, I see an attempt is being made to make the process work better - but, have one concern/issue regarding the survey | 21:46 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: I want to be candy crush saga | 21:46 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: haha | 21:46 |
| glebo | emagana: if history has shown us anything, it's that humans are absolutely not consistently "professionals who can take feedback properly", though I wish it were so | 21:46 |
| Sukhdev | salv-orlando :_) | 21:46 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: That's a good choice. :P | 21:46 |
| marun | emagana: that is the intention here, to provide avenues for improvement if someone is not seen to be meeting consensus expectation. | 21:46 |
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| marun | emagana: and if any of us don't want to have to meet the expectations of our peers, it's probably the case that we don't want to be on core anymore. | 21:47 |
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| marun | Sukhdev: do tell! | 21:47 |
| glebo | salv-orlando: ++ *lmao again* | 21:47 |
| kevinbenton | marun: if it’s anonymous and only a subset of the cores, it makes their voice seem over-representative | 21:48 |
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| Sukhdev | Folks may have different openions about different core based upon their interactions - I may find one core very useful (in one situation to me) and may not find other core that useful - hence, my survey may be very skewed | 21:48 |
| Sukhdev | and this will be true for most part, no? | 21:48 |
| salv-orlando | I think the first iteration of this survey is more for assessigne the survey itself. | 21:48 |
| marun | Sukhdev: That is certainly a fair point. | 21:49 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Yes, we're surveying the survey. | 21:49 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: yeah and I think that is the right approach | 21:49 |
| salv-orlando | once we address feedback and improve it, then the data set will be expanded | 21:49 |
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| emagana | mestery: So, core status is only attached to core reviews. Any contribution to community staff such as testing, mailing lists, docs is not considered? | 21:49 |
| marun | salv-orlando: +1 | 21:49 |
| marun | emagana: erm | 21:49 |
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| mestery | emagana: That's in there (at least I recall it being there). | 21:49 |
| marun | emagana: the survey questions should shed light on your question | 21:49 |
| * mestery goes to look | 21:49 | |
| mestery | emagana: What marun said. | 21:49 |
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| marun | emagana: they encompass more than reviews, because core responsibility is definitely more than that. | 21:50 |
| Sukhdev | So, my suggestion will be that cores should review cores - based upon their involvement in various parts…..not the general community | 21:50 |
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| emagana | marun: Go it! | 21:50 |
| marun | Sukhdev: That's the intent. | 21:50 |
| kevinbenton | Sukhdev: i thought that was already the intention | 21:50 |
| marun | kevinbenton: The proposal is that the PTL will be responsible for choosing who reviews who, at least initially. | 21:51 |
| mestery | As with most things, once we implement this, we'll iterate a bit and see how it goes, adjusting as necessary. | 21:51 |
| emagana | emagana has one thing to make him sleepless! | 21:51 |
| glebo | Sukhdev: if one of cores main roles is to do reviews for the main community, then the community is a HUGE customer base for the cores. And shouldn't the customer base of that sort have voice to the service being provided? | 21:51 |
| marun | kevinbenton: It's unlikely that Kyle will assign reviewers where conflict or friction is present. | 21:51 |
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| Sukhdev | marun kevinbenton: thanks for clarifying that - I probably missed that :-) | 21:51 |
| mestery | I'll make sure to wave my magic PTL wand gently. | 21:51 |
| marun | kevinbenton: It's not perfect, but it's a starting point. The goal here is useful feedback more than performance assessment anyway. | 21:52 |
| kevinbenton | marun: a bad pairing could ruin the perspective of the entire community for a core and cause them to burn out, so we need to be really careful here | 21:52 |
| marun | kevinbenton: I trust the PTL to be careful, as you say. | 21:52 |
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| mestery | I'd like to encourage folks to add notes to the etherpad | 21:52 |
| marun | kevinbenton: and there is always the option of following up with a reviewer who is being really mean, without the person under review being involved or the results being public | 21:52 |
| glebo | marun: if useful feedback is the goal, then the more feedback in total the better; the larger the sample set, the more accurate it is likely to be | 21:53 |
| Sukhdev | glebo: good point - however, you may be pissed off because he was harsh on your code, while the other person may be very happy, as he found the comment very useful - so, how do you come up with true evaluation? | 21:53 |
| markmcclain | again it seems the goal is to focus first on making sure the tool is right before | 21:53 |
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| markmcclain | hence a small sample should be ok for the first round… I hate to conduct a large survey to find out we asked the wrong questions | 21:53 |
| marun | glebo: sure, but we're trying to put an upper-bound on the effort involved initially | 21:53 |
| marun | glebo: once we've learned what works and what doesn't, but all means, involve more people | 21:54 |
| mestery | marun: +100 | 21:54 |
| marun | glebo: this is documented in the proposal, btw | 21:54 |
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| marun | markmcclain++ | 21:54 |
| glebo | Sukhdev: if the purpose is to "get a good grade" then you it's very tough. If the purpose is to provide lots and lots and lots of very simply, quick data points and to thereby easily be able to see overall trends over time, then that's different | 21:54 |
| glebo | reminder: open, transparent | 21:55 |
| marun | glebo: The latter goal is definitely paramount. | 21:55 |
| sweston | I think that a lot of folk's concerns here will be resolved once the team decides on the criteria which the reviews are based on ... after this happens a lot of the subjectivity will fade away | 21:55 |
| glebo | marun: me thinks so 2 | 21:55 |
| mestery | I'm hopeful the community agrees with the direction here. | 21:55 |
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| markmcclain | I like that we're looking at ways to make us better | 21:55 |
| Sukhdev | marun mestery: Cores are providing very valuable service - last thing I would want to do is to discourage them or demotivate them - so, be careful.. | 21:55 |
| glebo | marun: but the current process being proposed seems to contradict that. Closed, hidden, subjective, selective | 21:55 |
| mestery | markmcclain: ++ | 21:55 |
| kevinbenton | the problem with specific checkboxes to fulfull is that it encourages fitting the model | 21:55 |
| salv-orlando | Sukhdev: why should this discourage or demotivate someoby? | 21:56 |
| kevinbenton | a person might be discouraged from spending a whole cycle fixing a really hard problem if it will come back to bite them in other categories | 21:56 |
| glebo | markmcclain: +1. That's the most important part, and shows very well on the community | 21:56 |
| marun | Sukhdev: It's a balancing act, for sure. | 21:56 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Fixing something hard should never come back to bite someone. | 21:56 |
| marun | glebo: in what way? | 21:56 |
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| regXboi | kevinbenton: +1 | 21:56 |
| mestery | Folks, we have 3 minutes left. | 21:56 |
| mestery | Lets continue this duscssion on the ML and on the etherpad. | 21:56 |
| mestery | And next week in the meeting if need be. | 21:57 |
| mestery | I have one more thing to bringup here | 21:57 |
| mestery | At the close of the meeting. | 21:57 |
| marun | kevinbenton: cores should be graded on intent as much as effort | 21:57 |
| emagana | mestery: All this process will require more commitment time for core in Neutron.. Are we increasing the minimal expected one? | 21:57 |
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| mestery | emagana: No. | 21:57 |
| salv-orlando | kevinbenton: I like to think that we still have common sense. It’s not like we would become stupid bureacrauts that just read a survey’s outcome and take action | 21:57 |
| glebo | kevinbenton: if there is a closed door review by a select few, it might well do so. If everyone who saw, touched, intereacted on that project / issue gave a very quick little rating and a comment or two, it would not b so | 21:57 |
| mestery | Per markmcclain, XML support is going away, and we mean it this time: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1380787 | 21:57 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1380787 in neutron "remove XML support" [High,In progress] | 21:57 |
| Sukhdev | salv-orlando: Once you start to label them or start to create whispers….those could be demotivating gestures…hence, extreme care should be used | 21:57 |
| marun | kevinbenton: and if you read the questions, I think you'll find that constructive involvement is being evaluated. I'm not sure how anyone would game it anymore than they would 'game' being a good developer. | 21:57 |
| kevinbenton | salv-orlando: paperwork does bad things to people | 21:57 |
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| emagana | mestery: Can you set up a minimal commitment time in here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NeutronCore | 21:58 |
| kevinbenton | marun: gaming was a bad term. ‘change their behavior to balance more than focus' | 21:58 |
| mestery | emagana: I can yes. | 21:58 |
| marun | kevinbenton: If you think the proposal can be improved, your suggestions are definitely welcome. | 21:58 |
| mestery | #action mestery to look at core time commitments in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NeutronCore | 21:58 |
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| emagana | mestery: Hopw much will that be? | 21:58 |
| glebo | marun: if the PTL chooses the reviewers and its deal with discretely, then it's the opposite of open, transparent, etc. | 21:58 |
| mestery | Folks, < 1 minute left. | 21:58 |
| * mestery notes he's yelling into a wind vortex now and will conclude the meeting. | 21:59 | |
| * regXboi happily waves goodbye to XML | 21:59 | |
| mestery | I'm happy to see folks engaged in this peer review process. | 21:59 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: Great discussion - thanks for brining it up | 21:59 |
| mestery | And I hope everyone can see the goals it's trying to solve here. | 21:59 |
| amotoki | +1 for dropping XML support | 21:59 |
| mestery | Lets continue the discussion on ML and in channel! | 21:59 |
| marun | glebo: I'd like to hear your useful alternative. | 21:59 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 21:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 13 21:59:32 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2014/networking.2014-10-13-21.02.html | 21:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2014/networking.2014-10-13-21.02.txt | 21:59 |
| * mestery just made the 5:00 cut there. | 21:59 | |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2014/networking.2014-10-13-21.02.log.html | 21:59 |
| salv-orlando | adieuuuuu | 21:59 |
| Sukhdev | Thanks and bye | 21:59 |
| regXboi | oom | 21:59 |
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| mestery | Byte folks! | 21:59 |
| marun | glebo: please contribute your suggestions for alternatives to the etherpad | 21:59 |
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| marun | glebo: consider, though, that there are human elements that may need to take priority over your ideals of 'open' and 'transparent' | 22:00 |
| marun | pragmatism, and all. | 22:00 |
| marun | the goal is increasing transparency and openness, but maybe we don't get there in one step | 22:00 |
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| glebo | marun: will do, and noted. | 22:02 |
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| glebo | marun: also note that the ideals of "open" and "transparent" are not MY ideals, they are the stated ideals of the open source process AND in the life cycle documents that govern OS's operation | 22:03 |
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| marun | glebo: 'open' and 'transparent' is what we are not, currently. | 22:03 |
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| glebo | *nods* | 22:04 |
| marun | glebo: there is not clear guidance as to what core responsibilities are, or whether a given individual is meeting them. | 22:04 |
| glebo | marun: and sadly so. | 22:04 |
| marun | glebo: so we're trying to change that | 22:04 |
| marun | glebo: the goal is to get everyone's feedback on everyone, eventually | 22:04 |
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| glebo | marun: applauded. I'm very encouraged to see this effort, regardless of how it is impelmented at first swing | 22:05 |
| marun | glebo: but it would be a lot of work to do that as a first step | 22:05 |
| marun | glebo: great! :) | 22:05 |
| glebo | marun: the movement is DEFINITELY healthy, and in the right direction | 22:05 |
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| marun | glebo: as I said, your feedback is welcome and encouraged. This is just a proposal, after all. | 22:05 |
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| glebo | marun: understood. And, judging by the conversation it sparked, it's a fantastic first proposal, and I think all agreed that the need for some review and feedback and clarity as to goals and meeting of said goals is in order, | 22:06 |
| glebo | marun: so all in the right direction. | 22:06 |
| glebo | marun: and I'll pop some ideas into the epad now | 22:07 |
| marun | glebo: sounds good. | 22:07 |
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