Wednesday, 2014-11-19

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JRobinson__APAC Docs meeting notice: the meeting will begin in about 20 minutes.02:39
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JRobinson__APAC Docs meeting in 10 minutes02:50
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annegentleyou're good JRobinson__02:53
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JRobinson__okay, let's begin03:00
JRobinson__#startmeeting docteam03:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 19 03:00:33 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is JRobinson__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'03:00
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JRobinson__The first item we have is summit wrap up and summaries03:01
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JRobinson__#topic Summit wrap-up03:01
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JRobinson__One major summary is from annegentle:03:02
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JRobinson__video recordings of keynotes and panels are also available,03:02
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JRobinson__Are there any wrap-up or summit related items to add?03:03
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JRobinson__okay, on to the next items03:06
JRobinson__video meetups are currently being set up, and an item to add to this meeting:03:07
JRobinson__#action annegentle setting up video meetups03:07
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JRobinson__Next is the Bug triage day03:07
JRobinson__#topic Bug triaging days03:08
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JRobinson__the OpenStack wiki has been updated to include the03:08
JRobinson__Bug triage day. An update email has been sent to the docs mailing list03:08
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JRobinson__This covers the specific timing of the day: November 20th, anytime of the day relative to timezone03:09
JRobinson__The goal is to triage 30 doc bugs on the openstack-manuals and openstack-api site.03:09
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JRobinson__An update on the Networking Guide03:10
JRobinson__#topic Networking Guide latest03:10
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JRobinson__The Networking guide is in progress: dvr needs a code patch,03:10
JRobinson__and layer 3 HA is in testing03:11
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JRobinson__currently, we have one more provider network scenario coming.03:11
JRobinson__this is basically ML2 with OVS / vlan03:11
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JRobinson__Any comments or questions on the networking guide updates?03:12
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JRobinson__If there's nothing further, on to the next item03:13
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JRobinson__#topic Install Guide Status03:14
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JRobinson__#info Object Storage (Swift) updates to the install guide are now complete03:15
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JRobinson__#info Sam-I-am is working on new architecture diagrams. These are designed to include swift and cinder nodes03:17
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JRobinson__#info For any patches to the install guide - please try to avoid moving content of the guide around, unless you are willing to backport the change03:18
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JRobinson__Are there any questions or comments on the Install Guide status?03:18
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JRobinson__Okay, the next item is Diagram colour schemes03:21
JRobinson__#topic Diagram colour schemes03:21
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JRobinson__Recently, new diagram colour palettes have been put together, with the goal to have consistent colour and shape across the docs03:22
JRobinson__At the moment, the more monochrome style has gained some traction:03:23
JRobinson__There's also a more colourful version:03:24
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JRobinson__#info Please check the docs email list to comment on the line thickness or colour combinations.03:25
JRobinson__Are there any questions on the design colours?03:26
JRobinson__^sorry diagram colours03:26
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JRobinson__The next item is the OpenStack Docs Website Design Status03:29
JRobinson__#topic Website design status03:29
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JRobinson__The current designs were sent through to the docs mailing list one week ago:03:30
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JRobinson__#info please check on the new website designs, and if you have any comments, the current discussion is on the docs mailing list03:32
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JRobinson__#info the new website designs will also be finalised soon. If you have comments on the new look, particularly if there are display or loading issues, contact the docs mailing list or openstack-doc channel ASAP03:33
JRobinson__Ongoing actions for the website design:03:33
JRobinson__#action annegentle to follow up the designs with Wes03:34
JRobinson__Any questions on the designs?03:34
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JRobinson__On to the next item:03:36
JRobinson__#topic HOT Template Guide latest03:37
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JRobinson__stevebaker, hello \o03:37
JRobinson__Currently the Hot template guide still needs more development time03:37
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stevebakerit still needs more content too (unless that is what you mean)03:38
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JRobinson__stevebaker, I'm looking at emails from late October03:39
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stevebakerI'm deep in dev right now, but will finish off the software_deployments section when I get the chance03:39
JRobinson__which I think are behind the times.03:39
stevebakerI think the biggest content hole is a chapter on resource groups / autoscaling03:39
stevebakerbut there has yet to be a heat dev to volunteer for that03:40
JRobinson__ah, okay, thank you for the update:03:40
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JRobinson__#info chapter content on resources groups and autoscaling needs attention. A heat developer volunteer for the guide is also needed.03:41
JRobinson__Any further comments or questions on the HOT templates?03:41
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stevebakerthats probably all for now. I'd like to phase out our template guide soon and start moving URLs over to the user guide03:42
JRobinson__Okay. stevebaker thanks for the insights into the templates.03:43
JRobinson__last topic before open discussion is the latest on the API docs03:44
JRobinson__#topic API docs latest03:44
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JRobinson__the API working group are recording API styles.03:45
JRobinson__are there any more comments on the API docs?03:46
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JRobinson__Open discussion time:03:48
JRobinson__#topic Open discussion03:48
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Sam-I-Amseems kind of quiet03:50
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JRobinson__Yep, not a lot of comments this meeting.03:51
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Sam-I-Amdid i miss any install guide things?03:51
JRobinson__It was not new updates:03:52
JRobinson__    Networking guide in progress: dvr needs a code patch, layer 3 HA in testing (annegentle, 14:12:14)03:52
JRobinson__    one more provider network scenario coming, basically ML2 with OVS / vlan (annegentle, 14:17:45)03:52
Sam-I-Ampretty much03:53
Sam-I-Amstill a bunch of things to test/fix03:53
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JRobinson__I think it's okay to bring the meeting to a close if there's no further discussion03:55
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 19 03:55:46 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)03:55
openstackMinutes (text):
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rromansJRobinson__: nice job03:55
JRobinson__thanks rromans.03:56
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JRobinson__definitely need to head to lunch now though :)03:58
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johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI15:03
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 19 15:03:56 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:04
johnthetubaguyBobBall: hows things going?15:04
BobBallNot too bad15:04
BobBallNot too bad at all15:04
johnthetubaguy#topic XenServer CI15:04
*** openstack changes topic to "XenServer CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:04
BobBallOh yes - first subject of the day :)15:04
BobBallCI is going well15:04
BobBallGood passes recently15:04
johnthetubaguyI know there were some snapshot issues matel was digging on15:05
BobBallthat's the test change I've been rechecking15:05
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BobBallno snapshot issues in the CI15:05
BobBallis that a seperate subject?15:05
BobBallor is that Matel's neutron CI you're talking about?15:05
johnthetubaguyah, it could well be15:06
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johnthetubaguyI don't remember the details, just some 'bad' snapshots were created15:06
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BobBallSpeaking of matel - here he is15:07
johnthetubaguyBobBall: thats quite a lot of passes on that patch15:07
BobBallWhat are the CI snapshot issues you've seen? :)15:07
johnthetubaguymaybe its worth a whirl?15:07
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BobBalljohnthetubaguy: not enough for my liking :)15:07
johnthetubaguylol, OK15:07
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BobBallSo far only 8 passes.  If the fail rate was 10% then we still probably wouldn't have hit it15:08
BobBallyet a 10% fail rate is huge15:08
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matelsorry guys, what's the topic?15:08
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johnthetubaguytopic is CI15:08
BobBall15:05 < johnthetubaguy> I know there were some snapshot issues matel was digging on15:09
johnthetubaguyjust curious about the snapshot issues you saw the other day?15:09
BobBallI was trying to understand what they were15:09
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matelAh, I re-generated the image later, and haven't looked at it since then.15:10
matelGimme a sec, let me see how bad is the situation15:10
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BobBalloh I see15:10
BobBallit was snapshot issues with RAX in the image generatio15:11
BobBallnot snapshot issues seen in tempest failures?15:11
johnthetubaguyyeah, upstream code bug15:11
johnthetubaguyneed to put the fix up, but it should be deployed everywhere now15:11
johnthetubaguyI suspect it confused nodepool a bit15:11
johnthetubaguyit will have tried to use a snapshot that wasn't actually a success15:11
BobBallmatel was working on us using the latest nodepool code15:11
BobBallbecause there are a bunch of error handling improvements15:12
johnthetubaguynova would delete it, but not if you delete the instance first, :(15:12
matelTHe problem happened when I used nodepool to bake an image and launch instances of it.15:12
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BobBallI see15:13
matelNo stuck/building instances now.15:13
BobBallfair enough15:13
BobBallSo things seem to be OK ATM15:13
BobBallEven better.15:13
johnthetubaguysounds like we fixed it15:13
johnthetubaguyany more on the CI?15:13
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BobBallmatel has been working on something15:14
matelI am looking at using neutron15:14
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matelUsing the next XS candidate seems to work - as it has a newer Openvswitch15:14
matelAltough I still haven't passed all the smoke tests15:15
matelAgain, they are failing around volumes.15:15
matel..And securoty groups15:15
matelSo that's what I'm working on.15:15
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matel... And I documented the osci deployment15:16
BobBallSome changes were needed to devstack etc right?15:16
BobBallall upstream now?15:16
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johnthetubaguyall good stuff15:16
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matelWith the actual tips, it's not working.15:16
matelBobBall: I don't quite get what you mean.15:17
BobBallthe changes needed to get neutron working15:17
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BobBallI thought there were some?15:17
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matelThere were, they are merged AFAIK15:17
matelBut it's still not passing.15:17
matelLet me look at the reviewboard15:18
matelYes, my devstack changes have been approves15:18
BobBallAh ok good15:18
BobBallso nothing outstanding15:18
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BobBalljust us needing to continue to investigate15:18
matelSO it means, that if you deploy a neutron from upstream, you should be able to contribute to the investigation15:18
johnthetubaguycool, its a good problem to look into15:18
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matelYes, exactly15:18
johnthetubaguylooking like we might kill off nova-network in lima15:19
johnthetubaguy#topic Open Discussion15:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:19
johnthetubaguyso, any more things to talk about?15:19
matelNot from my side15:19
BobBallkill off?15:19
BobBallsurely the plan was to deprecate for at least 1 release15:19
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BobBallis the plan to formally deprecate for Kilo then and remvoe in Lima?15:20
johnthetubaguyif all goes to plan, possibly, although it might be a release later than all that15:20
BobBallthat might make more sense15:21
BobBallactually getting rid of nova-network is going to be hard work :)15:21
BobBallBut fair enough15:21
BobBallwe'll just see where it goes15:21
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BobBallI'm aiming to have our CI running on Neutron before the end of Kilo15:21
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johnthetubaguyyeah, sounds like a good plan15:22
BobBallso doesn't matter much15:22
BobBallmatel - do we want to ask about quark?15:22
johnthetubaguyanyways, any more for any more?15:22
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matelquark - not yet.15:22
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matelLet's try to give a go to bare neutron15:22
mateljohnthetubaguy: does quark support security groups?15:23
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matel.. maybe that's a question15:23
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BobBallDoes RAX offer security groups as a product offering?15:23
johnthetubaguynot right now15:24
johnthetubaguyit kinda upsets the scalability of OVS before you start worrying about other things15:24
BobBallheh.  Fun.15:24
johnthetubaguyBobBall: but what problems are you seeing?15:24
mateljohnthetubaguy: all tests using secgroups are failing15:25
BobBallit's more matel but I think it's that tempest tests security groups and they don't work with OVS plain15:25
mateljohnthetubaguy: I'll look at where the issue lies15:25
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johnthetubaguyhmm, OK15:25
johnthetubaguywe don't use upstream ML2 OVS driver though15:26
johnthetubaguywe use quark15:26
johnthetubaguywhich is quite a different beast15:26
BobBallIndeed.  Sorry, brb.15:26
mateljohnthetubaguy: I would like to use upsteram components15:26
johnthetubaguymatel: agreed15:27
mateljohnthetubaguy: If something is not possible with them, maybe we should use quark as well15:27
johnthetubaguyquark is open source, but its sure not upstream right now15:27
matelBut give it a first go.15:27
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matelIs it owned by OS?15:27
matelor is it a rackerlabs projects?15:27
johnthetubaguyyeah, quark doesn't support security groups yet, so its not really the right answer for this either15:27
johnthetubaguyI don't know for sure15:27
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mateltbh, I'm afraid that I'm gonna run into some serious issues there, but that's just my feeling.15:28
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matelI hope I'll be more clever next week.15:28
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matelAh, johnthetubaguy.15:28
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matelCould you take a look at:
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johnthetubaguywell, that stuff is confusing, getting something working without security groups will be a cool think anyways15:29
matelJust a quick read, to make sure it makes sense.15:29
matelOK, I'm on it.15:29
johnthetubaguymatel: it looks very close to what I did when I tried to set the thing up15:30
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BobBallYeah - we can have an exclusion list for now until we figure out how to do security groups with OVS15:30
johnthetubaguymatel: I will try get someone to help out with that15:30
mateljohnthetubaguy: do you need help to read?15:30
matelOh, I didn't know that.15:31
johnthetubaguywell, I need to find some time from somewhere15:31
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matelok, I'm done for today.15:32
BobBallAs am I15:32
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johnthetubaguythanks all15:32
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:32
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 19 15:32:19 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:32
openstackMinutes (text):
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thingee#startmeeting Cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 19 16:00:01 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
thingeehi everyone16:00
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bswartzwelcome back mike hope you had a good vacation16:00
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thingeebswartz: thanks!16:00
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thingeeyes sorry for the slow moving on things. drivers bps should've still been taken care of, but last week I was out on vacation and unfortunately my laptop was destroyed on the way to the summit16:01
thingeeso reviewing stuff was not great.16:01
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thingeeI'm caught up on stuff with emails/work etc so reviews should be moving forward16:02
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thingeejust quick announcement, we're past accepting new drivers this release16:02
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thingeeso what you see in k1 is what we have16:02
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thingeeok lets get started16:03
jungleboyjthingee: So, those that are still in the review process, though are valid?16:03
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thingeejungleboyj: yup, all I wanted was the bp.16:03
thingeethe intention that this is going to happen16:03
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jungleboyjExcelletn +216:03
thingee#topic 3rd party CI16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "3rd party CI (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:04
thingeeDuncanT_: you're up16:04
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thingeeoh yes agenda today:
DuncanT_My usual question: How are people doing with 3rd party CI? Are we ready to pencil a cutoff date for having it working or are we going to let it drag?16:04
DuncanT_Several people have suggested that a grace period is needed for new drivers16:05
DuncanT_That sounds fine to me16:05
bswartz+1 for grace period -- it's hard enough to write a new driver16:05
flip214DuncanT_: what cutoff date? isn't it good to _add_ CI, no matter what time?16:05
jungleboyjDuncanT_ We are working on moving some of our CI that is currently in China to the US to avoid firewall problems.16:05
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thingeeflip214: to create pressure. otherwise people put it off16:06
flip214we're currently setting up one, and pressure won't help16:06
jbernardwhat is the proposed length of the grace period?16:06
DuncanT_flip214, I mean a cutoff where we start to talk about removing untested drivers16:06
thingeeflip214: +116:06
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thingeeflip214: not saying it's right, just that's the short answer.16:06
jungleboyjDuncanT_ We hope that will help with consistent results.  I have set an internal cutoff date that I will keep to myself.  ;-)16:06
DuncanT_jbernard, the end of the release16:06
DuncanT_jbernard, Maybe?16:06
thingeeis anyone interested in collaborating on a simpler solution?16:07
* DuncanT_ is flexible for when we pick, but as things are going, progress is glacial16:07
flip214well, I'm planning to use the CI system for internal QA too, so there's a good reason to *make it work*.16:07
DuncanT_flip214, +216:07
xyang1DuncanT_: do you mean for existing drivers, if CI is not up and running, the driver will be removed before Kilo GA?16:07
flip214well, then I'm at +3, so I'm good to go ;)16:07
thingeeI've brought this up at the summit. and I think people are likely to build a ci if it's easier than the current solutions16:07
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DuncanT_xyang1, That is what I'm thinking, and it is what we've said before16:08
xyang1DuncanT_: for new drivers, it is different?16:08
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thingeeDuncanT_: what's the suggested deadline?16:08
jungleboyjDuncanT_ K2?16:09
rhe00_would it be possible for someone that has it running to clone the environment without releasing anything confidential?16:09
DuncanT_K-2 seem reasonable for exisiting drivers?16:09
* jungleboyj hopes so.16:09
thingeeDuncanT_: are you going to communicate to maintainers?16:09
DuncanT_thingee, I can do so again, yes16:09
thingeeDuncanT_: are we deprecating drivers? or just flat out removing?16:09
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thingeeeven broken non responsive maintainers, we agreed to deprecate16:10
thingeebroken drivers/non responsive maintainers*16:10
thingeeI know that takesaway what you're trying to do here, but bringing it up16:10
timclK2 for existing drivers only? What about the new drivers coming in? K2 is going to be a challenge especially with Fibre Channel16:10
DuncanT_thingee, deprecation or removal... I'll probably put the patches up for removal then convert them to deprecation16:10
jungleboyjDuncanT_: So the expectation is that maintainers are reliably reportng CI results by K-2 ?16:10
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DuncanT_jungleboyj, For exisiting drivers, yes16:11
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DuncanT_timcl, New drivers maybe target the end of the release? With a hard cutoff of L-216:11
thingeeSince I know not everyone attends this meeting unfortunately, I think DuncanT_ should also post this to the list.16:11
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DuncanT_thingee, Will do. I'll email maintainers directly where possible too16:12
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thingeeanyone opposed to this, besides there being more work for you? :)16:12
timclDuncanT_: OK we'll digest that and see where we are in the FC side16:12
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DuncanT_timcl, Cool. Reach out to me if there are major issues, we can work on them.16:12
DuncanT_Ok, I think that's me done for this topic. Thanks all16:13
timclDuncanT_: thx16:13
DuncanT_Feel free to action me16:13
DuncanT_#action or whatever16:13
thingeeok I take this silence that people are fine with k-2. this will move on to the mailing list16:13
thingeeDuncanT_: end of k-2?16:13
jungleboyjthingee: +216:13
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DuncanT_End of k-2, yes16:14
thingee#agreed end of k-2 deadline for existing drivers to have a ci16:14
thingeethanks DuncanT_16:14
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thingee#action DuncanT_ to post to the openstack dev list about ci deadline16:14
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thingee#action DuncanT_ to email existing driver maintainers about ci deadline16:15
thingee#topic Kilo mid-cycle meet-up:16:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Kilo mid-cycle meet-up: (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:15
thingeejungleboyj: you're up16:15
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jungleboyjThank you.  So, I have started the process of planning the mid-cycle meet-up in Austin:
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jungleboyjFor room planning I need to get a high estimate of how many people are coming sooner rather than later.16:16
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jungleboyjSo, if you think that you have a decent chance of getting travel approved, please put your name in the ether pad.16:17
* DuncanT_ is waiting to hear back from management16:17
thingeejungleboyj: so these are set?16:17
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thingeethese dates*16:17
jungleboyjI have space for ~20 lined up.  If that isn't enough space I will have to get creative.16:17
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jungleboyjthingee: I thought that was worked best, based on discussion at the Summit.16:18
thingeejungleboyj: yup just making sre16:18
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thingeeanteaya: ^16:18
jungleboyjJanuary 27, 28 and 29 for those who weren't aware.16:19
thingee#info dates for meetup is Jan 27-29 201516:19
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thingee#info room for 20 people sign up now!16:19
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jungleboyjUnfortunately there is another event on site at that time which is why I need to get creative if we ahve more than 20 people.  :-)16:19
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thingeejungleboyj: anything else?16:19
thingeejungleboyj: can you post this to the mailing list as well?16:20
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jungleboyjI think that is it right now.  Sure can.  Thanks to those who are already putting their names in!16:20
thingee#action jungleboyj to post to the openstack lists about the meetup16:20
winston-dDell was also willing to sponse the meetup?16:20
jungleboyjWe will be covering dinner one night as well.16:20
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anteayaI'll sign up, bump me if you need the space for someone else16:20
jungleboyjGoing to talk to dell and NetApp to see if they want to do dinner on other nights.16:20
thingeeanteaya: no way, you're going16:21
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thingeejungleboyj: thanks16:21
jungleboyjCan't have a party without anteaya16:21
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jungleboyjThank you.16:21
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tbarronjungleboyj: esker said he wanted to sponsor dinner from NetApp one night16:21
jungleboyjB there B square.16:21
thingee#topic What to do about cinder.conf.sample16:21
*** openstack changes topic to "What to do about cinder.conf.sample (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:21
jungleboyjtbarron: Right.16:21
thingeetbarron: awesome!16:21
thingeejungleboyj: you're up again16:21
anteayathingee jungleboyj awwww, thanks16:22
jungleboyjSo, I don't know what to say here.  Just wanted to have the discssion.16:22
thingeedo you have the change in question from yesterday?16:22
hemnaso whats wrong with cinder.conf.sample right now?16:22
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eharneymost recent problem is that dep changes broke it on the stable branch, right?16:22
jungleboyjDo we want to do something different or just keep making 1sie 2sie fixes when libraries change?16:22
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DuncanT_We have the option of removing external libraries for the sample conf16:23
eharneyi liked the idea that someone proposed of only generating the sample based on our options and not those from other libraries, which i think helps most of this16:23
thingeeDuncanT_: that's what I was wondering too16:23
hemnawhat external lib broke this ?16:23
DuncanT_Not ideal, but it solves my (review) usecases16:23
jungleboyjeharney: +116:23
ameade_eharney: +1 at least16:23
akerr+1 to removing external libs16:23
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thingeeeharney: +116:23
jungleboyjhemna:  oslo.db16:23
ameade_heck i almost think if generating it is easy why dont we just have it generated on install or something?16:23
DuncanT_Packagers won't like it, but they already have to rebuild for other openstack projects now so it shouldn't be a biggie16:24
winston-dOr, we can stop using in gate16:24
ameade_and not maintain a generated file in the repo16:24
hemnaameade_, except the purpose of generating it was to verify it in the gate as well16:24
hemnain case drivers made changes and the sample didn't contain those changes16:24
DuncanT_Being able to see the generated changes is *really* useful when looking for back compat issues16:24
hemnaI think it's best to remove those external lib conf entries if possible16:24
eharneyyeah, one of the reasons we wanted to keep the generation was to help reviewing16:24
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ameade_hemna: :but it wouldn't matter if it was generated16:24
hemnamaybe put those in another sample that isn't gated16:24
thingeeeharney: which change exists to stop generating for external libs?16:25
eharneythingee: i don't know, this was just an idea from Duncan i think?16:25
thingee#idea stop generating cinder.conf.sample based on external libs16:25
thingeeDuncanT_: what's the annoyance of this for packagers?16:25
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DuncanT_thingee, They were initially unhappy about having builddeps on the tools needed to rebuild the sample conf16:26
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hemnaif we can put those external lib conf entries in their own sample, then at least those exist somewhere for an admin to lookup.  we just don't gate on that other file.16:26
e0neDuncanT_: +116:26
DuncanT_thingee, But that should be a none-issue now since some projects dropped sample ocnf completely16:26
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eharneyhemna: but then we have to figure out how to not have it out of date when the external libs change16:26
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DuncanT_hemna: An out-of-date file is probably as bad if not worse than no file... packagers can always generate an up-to-date one16:27
hemna:( yah I suppose so.  they would have to get regenerated16:27
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thingeejungleboyj: can we get a bug unless it already exists to monitor this?16:27
hemnaok, -1 on my idea then :)16:27
thingeethis would be good to target for k-116:28
jungleboyjthingee: Yeah, I can create a bug.16:28
jungleboyjhemna: -1 do your idea.16:28
thingeewho wants to take this on? :)16:28
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jungleboyjshould I open a bug and see what it takes to jsut remove the external libraries from the generation?16:28
thingeejungleboyj: yea16:29
ameade_maybe external lib dependencies should be locked down to a version16:29
hemnajungleboyj, +116:29
ameade_so they would have to explicitly change16:29
jungleboyjthingee: Ok.  I will take a look.16:29
eharneyameade_: seems like something to consider for the stable branch, i don't think we can in master16:29
hemnaameade_, I think most are in the requirements.txt16:29
jungleboyjeharney: +116:29
jungleboyjI am surprised that we don't lock things down in stable.16:29
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eharneyhemna: requirements.txt doesn't restrict upgrades though16:29
ameade_eharney: why not?16:29
thingee#action jungleboyj to make a bug to for removing external libs from cinder.conf.sample generation16:30
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hemnaeharney, even if it has an upper version limit ?16:30
eharneyhemna: most don't16:30
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hemnaunless someone does a manual pip install I suppose16:30
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thingeejungleboyj: anything else?16:30
eharneyhemna: it does if we add them, which i think was the proposal16:30
e0nehemna: how do you propose managa max version?16:30
hemnaeharney, I think that's always a good idea to have an upper version limit16:31
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jungleboyjthingee: Nope, we have a direction to try.16:31
jungleboyjI will give it a shot and see who cries.16:31
hemnaas you don't want a 2.0 upgrading to 3.0 of a package where the api is completely broken16:31
eharneyameade_: i think we'd have to have other projects do the same for gate testing to work16:31
flip214----------- people: half the time == half the topics??16:31
thingeeflip214: thanks.16:32
thingee#topic Volume metadata having semantic meaning to Cinder16:32
e0nehemna: minor version could also break api:(16:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Volume metadata having semantic meaning to Cinder (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:32
thingeeDuncanT_: you're up16:32
DuncanT_Me again? Ok16:32
DuncanT_Historically speaking, volume metadata had no semantic meaning16:32
jungleboyjIt is the DuncanT_ and jungleboyj show.16:32
DuncanT_Cinder (or nova-volumes) never looked at the contents16:32
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DuncanT_Periodicallly, people try to put values in the that cinder acts on16:33
DuncanT_Personally, I think this breaks workload portability, and it's a terrible interface16:33
thingeeDuncanT_: it might make sense to make a comparison in our dev sphinx doc?16:33
DuncanT_I'm wondering what others think16:33
thingeethat we can point people to16:33
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eharneythis concern doesn't apply to admin metadata, right?16:34
DuncanT_If we want per-volume tuning, I'd rather define a good interface for that16:34
DuncanT_eharney, Correct16:34
hemnaDuncanT_, +116:34
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eharneyi generally agree with the concern then16:34
tbarronportability seems very important, esp. since we restore volume metadata from backup16:34
e0nethingee: +1 but will peope read it?16:34
DuncanT_Note that solidfire, among others, already optionally consumes the volume metadata16:34
hemnawe used to store array specific cruft in the volume metadata for us to use at a later date.  But we pulled it because it's visible to the user.16:34
thingeee0ne: I just feel like poor DuncanT_ has to explain this over and over :)16:35
DuncanT_I can certainly document it if we come to a decision16:35
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thingeeDuncanT_: I agree with a good interface for it. what suggestions do you have?16:36
DuncanT_It needs to be discoverable (since every backend will potentially have at least some unique feature)16:36
DuncanT_Other than that, I'm not yet sure16:36
DuncanT_I can have a go at a blueprint, see what I can come up with16:37
DuncanT_But anybody else with ideas is very, very welcome16:37
DuncanT_I've plenty on my plate already16:37
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hemnaisn't per volume tuning something that volume types are for ?16:37
DuncanT_Hemna: Yeah, but you can't change the type per volume16:37
flip214hemna: that would give an explosion of volume types, I believe16:37
AmitKDasdiscovery seems good..what about updates16:37
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hemnaevery volume in that type gets the same tuning.16:38
DuncanT_hemna, Some people want to fine tune QoS and stuff per-volume16:38
rushiagrPersonally, I feel as a user, I should get my volumes without any metadata, so that I can play around with it the way I want.16:38
DuncanT_hemna: Within the limits of the type16:38
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DuncanT_rushiagr, Agreed16:38
winston-dWhen QoS spec was implemented, it was created as standalone entity that can be associated with either types or single volume. we can do the same for general per-vol tuning.16:38
DuncanT_winston-d, That might mean thousands of QoS types though16:38
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hemnaDuncanT_, so who is going to create these per volume tuning metrics?   the drivers?   the admin ?16:39
DuncanT_hemna: The tenant16:39
winston-dDuncanT_: unfortunately, yes16:39
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DuncanT_hemna: Hence the need for a well designed interface16:39
DuncanT_hemna: I'm in no rush to get it in, I'd rather get it right16:39
DuncanT_I just want to stop new drivers copying the couple of old ones that abuse volume metadata16:40
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thingeeDuncanT_: I think a write up of the problem might be fine. No solution needed yet.16:40
hemnaalmost sounds like a temp qos type that's created and applied one time to a single volume.16:40
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xyang1DuncanT_: will the metadata still be stored as key-value pairs16:40
DuncanT_xyang1, Don't know yet16:40
DuncanT_xyang1, I want to stop calling it metadata right now though16:41
DuncanT_3 types of metadata is more than enough16:41
thingeeDuncanT_: +116:41
DuncanT_Tuning values?16:41
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rushiagrDuncanT_: +1 for stopping calling it metadata16:41
rushiagr'volume/backend properties' maybe :)16:41
thingeeDuncanT_: just write up the problem if you can and link to it on the ML?16:42
DuncanT_Sure, will do16:42
DuncanT_I'll also -1 the new driver that is doing the wrong thing16:42
thingeeDuncanT_: don't spend time on a solution. I'd rather leave that to the ML discussion16:42
DuncanT_thingee, Ok16:42
thingee#action DuncanT_ to write up the problem and mention it in the openstack dev ML for discussion16:42
flip214perhaps a good example implementation would be nice to have?16:42
thingee#topic Discuss how to cleanup stuck volumes (creating/deleting/attaching/detaching)16:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss how to cleanup stuck volumes (creating/deleting/attaching/detaching) (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:43
flip214eg. the LVM driver could switch some things in /sys16:43
thingeescottda: you're up16:43
scottdaBlueprint is
DuncanT_flip214, I've got no example yet16:43
scottdaThe bigger problem is that volumes can get stuck in various states:16:43
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scottdaand this needs fixing and/or syncing in Cinder DB, the backend storage, Nova DB,16:43
scottda compute host, compute <instance_id>.xml16:43
scottdaThe blueprint ^^^ is just to modify cinderclient reset-state16:43
thingee#idea reset state should also involve drivers16:43
scottdaCurrently, reset-state just changes the Cinder DB16:43
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flip214scottda: how will that interact with DuncanT_'s fine-grained state machine?16:43
scottdawhich can cause things to break.16:43
scottdaFlip214: good question16:44
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hemnathis one seems problematic because you don't know if the error was in the cinder code or the backend16:44
DuncanT_flip214, It will integrate... might add some new states but that is fine16:44
scottdaa well-implemented state machine could help to preven these issues...16:44
hemnathe error could simply be an artifact of a failure in cinder, in which case the driver has nothing to do.16:44
scottdaThe idea is that reset-state will call the driver.16:44
jbernardscottda: +1, i see this somewhat frequently in volume migration16:44
scottdaThe driver would attempt to set the state, and then return, and then the DB would set state.16:44
DuncanT_hemna: The driver will just be asked if the transition is ok16:44
DuncanT_hemna: If it has nothing to do, it can just return16:44
hemnaDuncanT_, that's not what scottda just said though :(16:45
scottdaWell , the drive will attempt to "do the right thing"16:45
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hemnathat's the problem16:45
scottdawhether that is nothing, or change the state16:45
DuncanT_hemna: It will always call the driver16:45
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hemnaI don't think the driver can really know what to do, if the failure was cinder's alone16:45
guitarzanthis is a really good idea that sounds hard :)16:45
hemnathe driver will not know what to clean up.16:45
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flip214scottda: DuncanT_: I meant that the fine-grained state machine might _solve_ the restart-problem?16:46
DuncanT_hemna: The driver just gets asked 'is it ok to mark this volume as available'?16:46
thingeetaking a step back, the original goal of reset state was just to be simple for updating the db. The admin is suppose to be responsible verifying the state of a resource in a backend and then forcing cinder to have it in whatever state after.16:46
scottdaif the command is "reset-state available" , the driver should see if it can set state to available16:46
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xyang1I think this is an important problem to solve.  just not sure about the Nova side.  If you don't look at the Nova side, the state you reset could still be wrong16:46
hemnathingee, +116:46
DuncanT_thingee, That turns out to be not much use in practice16:46
scottdaxyang1: agreed16:46
thingeeDuncanT_: not saying it's right, just saying that was the original intent16:46
guitarzanDuncanT_: I disagree, it's pretty useful when nova/cinder interactions break down16:46
scottdaBut the complete solution is much more complicated.16:46
DuncanT_thingee, Agreed16:46
scottdathingee: perhaps a new command or API then?16:47
DuncanT_guitarzan, Only for a tiny subset of cases, or where you go kick the backend by hand16:47
scottdaI'm more interested in a solution to the problem than how it gets done16:47
DuncanT_We can keep the old behaviour too16:47
thingeescottda: I agree. I'd rather not change original behavior to be done by --force16:47
DuncanT_--force or somethign16:47
hemnaI think this one needs to be thought out more.   It seems like a rathole that could lead to more trouble.16:47
thingeescottda: I would've like it that way originally though :)16:47
guitarzanDuncanT_: nah, whenever nova fails to attach, cinder is still in attaching16:47
guitarzanwe might actually see that problem more than most though16:47
xyang1if attach volume times out, the volume will be back to 'available', but the array continues with attach and volume can be attached to the host.  so it is out of sync16:47
hemnaxyang1, +116:47
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DuncanT_guitarzan, yes, but if the backend has opened targets and such, then it is wrong to just mark it available again16:48
TobiasE1xyang, +116:48
flip214-------------- only 11 mins left16:48
hemnaif nova pukes on attaching, then it tells cinder to reset it back to available.16:48
scottdaI've written an environment-specific solution, and it is 3000 lines of code....16:48
guitarzanDuncanT_: that's true16:48
DuncanT_guitarzan, The targets should be torn down first16:48
thingeeflip214: the last topic will be quick :)16:48
scottdaso this is not an easy problem to solve.16:48
flip214thingee: 2 more topics.16:48
DuncanT_guitarzan, Just about every possible transition has similar issues16:48
hemnaif it doesn't, that's a nova problem, and asking a driver the question can I move it to available it the wrong thing to do.16:48
scottdaSo where is the best place to carry on this discussion?16:48
guitarzanwith the caveat that some drivers do the export stuff on create anyway16:48
thingeeflip214: doh thanks16:48
guitarzanDuncanT_: sure, I'm just saying it's far from useless16:48
xyang1so in this case, we need to do something from the Nova side, 'available' is definitely wrong16:48
DuncanT_guitarzan, In which case, they can just return 'ok' for all transitions.16:48
DuncanT_xyang1, If you can tear down the targets while they are in use, the available is fine16:49
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guitarzanyeah, there's several cases that seem like we could handle16:49
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scottdaI can document more use cases, perhaps on the wiki, and then send out something on the ML16:49
thingeescottda: can we involve the nova folks on this? perhaps discussion of at least [cinder][nova] in the ML?16:49
flip214scottda: +116:49
thingeescottda: +116:49
DuncanT_Document them in the BP16:50
hemnaDuncanT_, +116:50
scottdathingee: yes16:50
guitarzannova is certainly aainvolved16:50
thingeeDuncanT_: not a spec?16:50
hemnaand/or in the cinder-spec16:50
scottdaThere is a spec16:50
DuncanT_Spec, sorry, yes16:50
scottdaI'll put the use cases there16:50
thingeescottda: thanks16:50
scottdaOk, thans all16:50
DuncanT_Nova might need a similar call too, but cinder generally can make some decisions16:50
thingee#action scottda to document more use cases and most the openstack dev ML to involve nova folks16:50
thingee#topic Are changes to the Cinder V1 API still worth the trouble?16:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Are changes to the Cinder V1 API still worth the trouble? (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:51
thingeepwehrle: you're up16:51
pwehrleHi all16:51
pwehrlemore of a confused noob's question, really16:51
pwehrleI was encouraged by my upstream training mentor to ask it here to make sure the response is a unanimous "no"16:51
* jungleboyj gives a unanimous no16:51
pwehrlecame across the problem with, felt kind of bad not fixing it for v116:51
thingeepwehrle: I have spoke to smcginnis, and v1 changes were removed16:51
thingeepwehrle: v1 will be gone in K16:52
DuncanT_No new features in V116:52
pwehrlethingee: I read that16:52
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thingeepwehrle: I'm fine with bug fixes, just no new features16:52
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pwehrlethingee: thanks for making it clear16:52
thingeepwehrle: this is the same policy across other projects16:52
DuncanT_If we're having to change the catalogue format, then I'm not sure about removing it in K, but that's a separate arguement16:52
pwehrleOK, that works for me16:53
guitarzando most apis allow both name/id? is that not just a clent feature?16:53
guitarzannames aren't unique, this one specifically seems like a bad idea16:53
thingeeguitarzan: that's a good question. I'm only aware of clients doing this16:53
winston-dguitarzan: +1, uuid only16:53
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DuncanT_guitarzan, Without good server-side search, doing it on the client is hard - you might have thousands of images16:53
guitarzanthis should just be a non controversial cinderclient patch16:53
thingeefor example, you can with the nova client16:53
eharneyguitarzan: i think some APIs allow either and return a server error if the search is ambiguous16:53
guitarzanDuncanT_: we'd have to do that on the api side anyway16:53
guitarzaneharney: ah, ok, I think that's nuts, but ok :)16:54
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eharneybut i could be thinking about a Nova API, i forget..16:54
hemnaif you look at the client help for cinder, the volume_type param seems ambiguous during volume create.  It's not clear if it's name of uuid or both.16:54
DuncanT_guitarzan, If we add a good search API then client side is fine for me16:54
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thingee#topic Backport NFS security bugfix to stable/juno and stable/icehouse16:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Backport NFS security bugfix to stable/juno and stable/icehouse (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:54
thingeebswartz: you're up16:54
bswartzhey guys16:54
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bswartzI've been poking various people to find out how they feel about backporting this change
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bswartzit's a bug, but it's a significant change16:55
hemnait's a big patch :(16:55
eharneythe main question i have there is do we also end up backporting the similar fixes for other *FS drivers16:55
bswartzwhether the bug deserves to be called a "security bug" is arguable16:55
jungleboyjhemna: There is a lot of test code in there too.16:55
bswartzbut if you feel it is a security issue, then a backport should be seriously considered16:56
hemnasure, but tests don't always get the bugs that are harder to find with these large patches16:56
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thingeebswartz: my thought, it does little to cinder core, so I'm not as concerned. if the other nfs folks want to spend time on this, I'm fine with that.16:56
bswartzin all my 1on1 conversations, people suggested that I bring the issue to the whole group16:56
jungleboyjhemna: Just saying a good number of the lines are in test files.16:56
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thingeebut I'm really going to rely on others to tell me this is fine for their drivers16:56
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DuncanT_I think the stable guys would want strong by-in from core on a change this big16:57
* jungleboyj was the one suggesting that.16:57
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hemnaI'm afraid of these large changes getting backported.  but that's just me.16:57
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bswartzthe stable guys include thingee, jgriffith, and jungleboyj16:57
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bswartzso they can speak on behalf of cinder16:57
eharneyit's not very obvious that it would be worthwhile to backport IMO16:57
jungleboyjthingee: I talked to him about it for a while last week.  I am ok with it if it is a pretty clean backport.16:57
thingeejungleboyj: did someone from your team try it?16:58
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bswartzokay I'm hearing enough positive remarks that we'll go ahead and do the backport, and do the rest of the argument in the code review for the backport16:58
jungleboyjthingee: Not yet.  jgriffith looked at it.16:58
thingeejungleboyj: jgriffith doesn't have a driver with nfs to try.16:58
jungleboyjthingee: Touche.16:58
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eharneyso when we make the same fix for the GlusterFS driver, will people be ok with backporting it as well?16:58
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bswartzeharney: when a backport patch lands I'll make sure you're a reviewer on it16:59
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jungleboyjthingee: I will need to have our SONAS guy take a look at this.16:59
thingeeeharney: I won't be opposed16:59
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thingeebswartz: thanks16:59
jungleboyjthingee: +116:59
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bswartzthanks for squishing all the agenda items into 1 hour thingee!16:59
thingeethanks everyone17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 19 17:00:05 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:00
jungleboyjI hate seeing this big a patch backported but at the same time.  I think it is worth considering.17:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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thingeejungleboyj: +117:00
jungleboyjGood meeting all!17:00
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tjones#startmeeting vmwareapi17:00
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openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 19 17:00:23 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:00
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tjoneshi folks - anyone here?17:00
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tjoneslistens to crickets17:04
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* rushiagr "o/" was for the last meeting17:06
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Arkady_Kanevskyare we cindering along17:06
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tjonesno this is vmwareapi but no one is here :-)17:07
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Arkady_KanevskyDo folks want to update the status of their CI as currenly reported on
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dimstjones: pong :)17:09
tjoneshey dims17:09
tjonesit's just you and me17:09
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tjoneswell with just you and me i think it will be a short meeting17:10
tjoneswhich is good cause i am in 2 meetings at once17:11
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tjonesthe last patch for spbm looks like it landed17:12
tjonesdims without tflower and arnuad there is nothing to talk abut on the multiple disk ova spec17:12
tjonesanything you wanted to talk about specifically?17:12
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dimstjones: nope, i am good. just did not want you to feel alone :)17:13
tjonesthanks nice of you.  not sure what happened to the rest.  perhaps i need to remind them that this meeting is in UTC time17:13
tjonesi missed it last week cause i forgot myself :-)17:14
tjonesok lets end  then.  thanks dims for hanging out with me17:14
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 19 17:14:51 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:14
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rgerganov_tjones: are we going to have a meeting?18:02
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tjonesyes - it was at 9am :-)  it's in UTC time18:03
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tjonesdims and i were the only ones here18:03
rgerganov_sorry for missing it18:03
tjonesnot sure if there is another meeting  here18:03
tjonesanyone else here for vmwareapi meeting?18:04
garyki am here - confused about time18:04
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freemabrI was planning on lurking18:04
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tjoneswell last week i forgot and came at 10 and no one was here.  then i rememberd the rest of the world does not have day lights savings18:04
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freemabrI saw it started at 10 last week so I wasn't sure if the wiki was wrong...18:05
rgerganov_tjones: so the vmware meeting is at 19:00 UTC ?18:05
rgerganov_ok, I will know from now on :)18:06
tjonesanyway - we are here.  shall we meet quickly?18:06
freemabrgaryk: did you receive my email with the link to my bp for application-consistent-snapshot?18:06
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garykfreemabr: yes. i have18:06
garyki still need to go over it - sorry a bit crazy at the moment18:07
tjonesfreemabr:  is that something you are targetting for kilo?18:07
tjonescan you add it to
rgerganov_I have rebased and reposted the patches for vSAN support18:07
freemabrsure, thx, intially I was only targeting libvirt18:08
tjonesgreat - it looks like the last patch for SPBM has landed - is that really the end of that feature?18:08
freemabrgaryk: cool, just wanted to make sure I had the correct email address18:08
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rgerganov_tjones: we have 3 more:,n,z18:09
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tjonesthanks rgerganov_ i added the link18:10
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tjonesso K-1 is in 1 month18:10
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tjoneswe wanted to get the 4 fasttrack features in by then18:10
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tjoneswhat do you guys think - going to make it?18:11
rgerganov_I will do my best for vSAN18:12
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rgerganov_garyk is rebasing and reviewing 24/7 as always :)18:12
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tjonesgaryk: looks like you are making progress on yours?18:12
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tjonesanything you guys need help with?18:13
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rgerganov_tjones: there is an issue with MS18:15
tjonesyes - it was down as of yesterday - the guys are working on it18:15
rgerganov_last time I checked was always failing18:15
rgerganov_tjones: ok, great18:15
tjonesyeah slow going18:15
rgerganov_anything else?18:16
tjonesnot from me.18:17
tjonesso next week we will meet at 19:00 ?18:17
rgerganov_actually the wiki says 17:00 UTC18:18
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rgerganov_maybe we just need to keep the "Next Meeting" section up to date linking timeanddate.com18:19
tjonesgood idea18:19
tjonessorry about that18:19
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rgerganov_ok, I need to go; for the next week let just use the time/date from the wiki18:21
tjonesc ya18:21
rgerganov_have a good one18:21
tjonesyou too18:21
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notmynameswift meeting time19:00
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notmyname#startmeeting swift19:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 19 19:00:58 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'19:01
notmynamewho's here for the swift meeting?19:01
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notmynamewelcome :-)19:01
notmynameseveral general things to go over this week and a few bigger ones19:02
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notmynamefirst up, meeting time. note (for those of us in the US) the meeting time is based on UTC, so it's an hour earlier now19:02
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notmynamestill 1900UTC19:02
notmyname#topic paris feedback19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "paris feedback (Meeting topic: swift)"19:03
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zaitcevI was able to enter the meeting into Zimbra in UTC, so I'm good with reminders19:03
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notmynamewhat did you think of the paris summit? what was good, what was bad?19:03
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peluseso maybe just me but I think the design session have gotten to big to be run as design sessions19:03
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acolespeluse: agree19:04
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pelusemaybe 'tech talks' would be better, have fewer of them and more time alotted for open discussion/hackathon style work like Fri morning was19:04
notmynamepeluse: that's an interesting idea. I like it19:04
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lpabonpeluse: i like that also19:04
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* notmyname is taking notes19:06
notmynamewhat else?19:06
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notmynamescheduling? location? topics? content? conference part?19:06
peluseI think it felt a lot like the last summit wrt logistics, worked OK for me.  Conf floor was a bit crowded but I suppose thats a good thing :)19:07
lpaboni thought all in all it went well19:07
tdasilvaI kinda expected more from the dev ops session, not sure if it was a timing thing where we left it for the last session of the day19:07
notmynameI liked the venue better than atlanta (and many of the previous) since the summit sessions were in the same hotel and not blocks away19:08
swifterdarrellnotmyname: i was kinda sad the wide-open Fri. morning thing was at the very end (also having so many different groups in one large room sucked)19:08
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lpabonswifterdarrell: yes, Cinder + Swift in the same room sucked19:08
notmynameswifterdarrell: +119:08
tdasilvaswifterdarrell: aggree19:08
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notmynametdasilva: so maybe getting more involved n the official ops tracks? my struggle there is that those have a lot of emphasis on nova/neutron19:09
tdasilvayeah...not sure...i think we basically only heard from briancline19:09
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notmynameI went to the "user survey feedback" session, and it was just "make nova and neutron not break"19:09
notmynametdasilva: yeah, I think we had a better ops session in the past19:09
notmynameany ideas on how to make that better (the ops session)?19:10
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notmynamea structured set of questions to ask? commitments to get people in the room?19:11
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swifterdarrellnotmyname: create and maintain a list of swift operators and badger them to be there and participate?19:11
tdasilvahumm...i was wondering if it was a timing issue where we only had developers left19:11
notmynameit it even needed?19:11
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swifterdarrelltdasilva: (seems quite possible)19:11
tdasilvamaybe it needs to be earlier in the week19:11
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tdasilvabut that's a good question: is it even needed? helpful? can we learn anything from them?19:12
zaitcevI do think that ops session is needed and at least those I attended (didn't go to Paris) were useful for me as a guidance. I was this close to trying and making a whole new logger direct to files and ops told me to can it. That was guidance.19:12
swifterdarrelltdasilva: notmyname: if there aren't operators with feedback they want to give back to the devs, then it's not needed... but I find it hard to believe that's the case19:12
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swifterdarrellzaitcev: +119:13
notmynameyeah, I totally think ops feedback is crucial. and I've liked in the past to have a forum. but there are other forums now (with arguable benefit).19:13
notmynameIMO we should keep scheduling a swift-specific one, even if not specifically in the "swift track". and we attend and get others there19:14
swifterdarrellnotmyname: +119:14
notmynamewhat other feedback from the summit/conference?19:14
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tdasilvafood was great! :-)19:15
tdasilvanot the conf. food btw19:15
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notmyname <-- conference videos about swift. I think there might have been a few others that I need to add19:16
notmynametdasilva: ya, parisian food was very nice19:16
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notmynamenext summit is in vancouver and the one after is in tokyo19:16
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notmynameanything else before we move on?19:17
gverniknotmyname: you can add there my Spark thing, it also about Swift19:17
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notmynamegvernik: ya, there are at least 3 more that need to be added19:17
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tdasilvanotmyname: I also had a vbrownbag tech talk about swift + swiftonfile in case you want to add19:17
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notmyname^ raw list of youtube links19:18
lpabonnotmyname: some feedback on the openstack food.  I was told that the Vegeterian selection was extremly lacking, again.  Seems that OpenStack summit needs to put more effort around this.. I am not sure if you can talk to the "powers that be" about this19:18
notmynamelpabon: ack19:18
notmynameand noted19:18
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notmynamethere have been some conversations (mailing list and meetings) about the summit. I'll try to jump in with your feedback. thanks!19:20
notmynameplease feel free to email me or say something in IRC if you have other comments19:20
notmynamemoving on then19:20
notmyname#topic OPW project19:20
*** openstack changes topic to "OPW project (Meeting topic: swift)"19:20
notmynameso there's this thing called the "Gnome Outreach Program for Women"19:21
notmynameit's an internship style thing19:21
notmynamewhere people work on a project in an open-source project19:21
notmynamemahatic applied and was accepted to work on swift for the December-March OPW term19:21
notmynamemahatic: welcome and congrats!19:22
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mahaticand from this round its only "outreach program", everyone other than men are welcome to apply :)19:22
notmynamemahatic: ah. thansk :-)19:22
acolesmahatic: congrats19:22
mahaticthank you! a big one, for taking time out for the whole process!19:22
notmynamemahatic will be initially working on a checker tool that a few of us have talked about. to probe the cluster to verify that things are good (eg read the ring and to OPTIONS requests to the servers)19:23
mahaticthanks acoles!19:23
mahaticmattoliverau, hello! have fun at your vacation19:23
notmynamemahatic: any questions or other things that need to be brought up?19:24
mahaticnot really. I'll be hanging around quite a bit and will try to ask only sensible questions :) Please do correct me19:25
mahaticme in any case*19:25
mattoliveraumahatic: still on holidays, so not quite so good at timezones :p19:25
notmyname#topic new specs guidelines19:25
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mahaticmattoliverau, yeah, got that :D19:26
notmynamethe swift-specs repo has been an experiment, and we put together some guidelines (actually written down now) at the summit19:26
notmynameI hope you've seen them, but if not here's the summary19:26
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notmynamemerge specs early and often. when you and a reviewer agree on something merge that part of it19:27
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notmynameif you +1/+2 a spec, you're giving a promise to review the patch when it comes around (or at least we can all bug you about it)19:27
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notmynameand, importantly, specs aren't to be the final docs for a feature. specs are a place to collaborate on design and are living documents19:28
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notmynamerelated to that, we wrote down that docs must land before or with a patch. you can't land a big patch with a promise to write the docs later (thanks swifterdarrell)19:29
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notmynamethat's the summary, and there is one small change to the organization of the specs repo19:29
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notmynamenow there are 2 high-level folders19:29
peluseall sounds great19:29
notmynamein-progress and done19:29
notmyname"done" is for stuff that has had the related patch merged. think of it as a way to "archive" (pejoratively, trash) the document to get it out of the way for in progress stuff19:30
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notmynameso eg once EC lands (with its docs!) then the spec can move to the done folder19:30
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notmynamemake sense to everyone?19:31
mattoliverauYup, sounds great19:31
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acolesthats what i remember we said in paris19:31
notmynameimportantly, keep in mind that the tool is to help us be better. don't worry about how other people are doing it, other than to learn what works and doesn't19:32
notmynameso if something works, let's do more of it. if it doesn't work, let's change19:32
pelusevery goodpoint19:32
swifterdarrellsounds great to me!19:32
notmynameany questions about any of that?19:32
zaitcevOkay, I avoided specs until now, but I'll give it a try by putting the Account/Object-in-Kinetic into a spec.19:32
notmynamezaitcev: cool. that'd be great19:33
* notmyname didn't know you were working on that19:33
tdasilvawhat is that?19:33
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notmynametdasilva: read the spec ;-)19:33
tdasilvacurious to see the spec now19:33
notmyname(when zaitcev writes it)19:33
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notmynameok, next up19:34
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notmyname#topic docs change19:34
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notmynamethe docs team (ping annegentle) has made some changes in how docs are organized in order to deal with the scale of the number of projects19:35
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notmynamesummary is that some of the api docs are moving into project repos instead of being in the docs repos19:35
notmynamethat patch above is a copy/paste of the existing stuff into our swift repo19:36
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notmynamewhich means that (1) we'll be responsible for it and (2) it will be available from along with all the other dev docs we have19:36
peluselooking for a rubber stamp or want one of to double check the copy n paste?19:36
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notmynamepeluse: mostly rubber stamp to get it moved. it does need to be reviewed for accuracy19:37
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notmynameie if we're directly responsible for maintaining it now, we need to ensure it reflects what we believe to be true19:38
pelusethunk... (done).  I'll read it while driving home later today19:38
acolespeluse: !19:38
notmynamehopefully not while behind the wheel!19:38
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peluse:)  Seriously though, I will buid and read and post anything that looks off as a new patch19:39
* tdasilva was wondering if peluse has a chauffeur19:39
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notmyname...swanky intel jobs...19:39
notmyname#topic EC status update19:39
*** openstack changes topic to "EC status update (Meeting topic: swift)"19:39
peluse:)  free beer in the back of my limo19:39
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notmynamea flurry of activity around EC lately (yay!)19:39
acolesnotmyname: did/does annegentle's team have tech writers that generate/maintain these docs or do we now get to write our best prose19:39
notmynamepeluse: can you give an update on current EC status and key patches to review?19:40
zaitcevI'm going to focus on not letting any lies in, the prose is for someone else19:40
pelusesure... trello is up to date for those interested19:40
notmynameacoles: I don't think they did. and we always get to do our best with the prose19:40
notmynamezaitcev: ;-)19:40
peluseand the priority review page is also up to date19:40
notmynamepeluse: good19:41
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peluseI'm in the middle of implementing some proto work for the portions of the reconstructor that we didn't anticpate being so complex - basically rebalance19:41
notmynameclayg and torgomatic are both now working on it here (swiftstack) as a top priority19:41
pelusesounds like clayg is getting a jumpstart on GET which is awesome19:42
pelusetiming should be good because the reconstructor will depend on the GET patch for the next phase (actual reconstruction)19:42
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notmynamewe've been doing EC a little differently that we did storage policies. SP had a "demoable" version pretty quickly and we had a tough slog at the end. EC is doing a lot of the very hard groundwork up front, but it feels slower because we don't even have read/write done yet19:43
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peluseI hear ya19:43
notmynameI'm not sure if that's better or worse, and I'm not looking for an answer right here right now, but it's somehting to think about19:44
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pelusethere's a shitload of behind the scenes stuff for sure.  The big win right now is the dependency, pyeclib , the guys did a great job having that ready in time for us to start putting meat behind PUT/GET and the reconstructor19:44
notmynamepeluse: beyond "review EC patches", what's the current blocker?19:44
tsg_notmyname: I posted an EC policy patch for review yesterday and have the .durable + HEAD stuff coming up (WIP posted yesterday)19:44
notmynametsg_: nice!19:45
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peluseah yes, tsg, I spaced that but that is also critical as the PUT path really isn't done w/o it19:45
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pelusei hate "big bang" stuff like this but honestly the real functionality is going to happen in sorta that fashion....19:46
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peluseunlike SP by its nature19:46
notmynameI think the important thing is to properly set expectations. a big bang isn't bad if people know that19:46
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notmynamepeluse: anything else on EC for today?19:47
pelusedon't think so, no.  any questions from anyone?19:47
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pelusenotmyname, just saw your question wrt current blocker... just reviews and coding right now...19:48
pelusechurn and burn baby19:48
notmyname#topic priority reviews19:48
*** openstack changes topic to "priority reviews (Meeting topic: swift)"19:48
acolespeluse: i will try to carve out some EC review time over next few days19:48
notmynameI updated this yesterday (monday?) with some of the active things that have been proposed since the summit19:48
zaitcevKota and Gil are still on huh19:49
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notmynamethe fsync() on dirs and the splice one are interesting19:49
notmynameya, kota's has one +219:49
peluseacoles, thanks!  concurrent GET would be a good/fairly quick one (on the prioirty review page)19:49
acolespeluse: k19:49
notmynameand the migration middleware ( gvernik) tends to cause passions to rise19:50
gverniki am working to implement changes we discussed with Clay in Paris. Will submit another patch very soon19:50
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notmynameso that being said, take a look at stuff on that page :-)19:50
notmyname#topic open discussions19:50
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notmynameanything else to bring up and discuss here in the meeting this week?19:50
mattoliveraupeluse: thanks for working on the concurrent reads while I've been away19:51
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pelusemattoliverau, no prob, I didn't do much :)19:51
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notmynameif there's nothing else, let's adjourn.19:52
peluserock n roll... later19:52
clayggot here just in time19:52
notmynamethanks everyone for coming. and thanks for working on Swift!19:52
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:52
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 19 19:52:26 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:52
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asalkeld#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 19 20:00:07 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is asalkeld. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:00
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asalkeld#topic rollcall20:00
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skraynev_hello all20:01
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asalkeld#topic review last actions20:02
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*** openstack changes topic to "review last actions (Meeting topic: heat)"20:02
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stevebakerthat would be pre-summit actions20:02
asalkeldegh, it's been such a long time - not sure this is relervant20:02
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asalkeldlets moveon20:03
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asalkeld#topic add items to the agenda20:03
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asalkeldanything new?20:03
inc0convergence syncup is scheduled after meeting right?20:04
stevebakerasalkeld: RPC exceptions20:04
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asalkeld#topic Critical issues sync20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical issues sync (Meeting topic: heat)"20:04
shardystevebaker: Ah, also the plan re RPC versioning and versioned objects would be good to clarify20:04
asalkeldsure shardy20:05
skraynev_inc0: syncup will be on this channel?20:05
inc0skraynev_, I think #heat20:05
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asalkeldskraynev_ #heat20:05
asalkeldno critical bugs?20:05
skraynev_got it, thx20:06
asalkeldok moving on20:06
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asalkeld#topic  Organize a bug cleanup day20:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Organize a bug cleanup day (Meeting topic: heat)"20:06
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asalkeldtherve raised this at summit20:06
stevebakerseems like a good idea20:07
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asalkeldthis is more cleaning up old bugs that are not relervent20:07
inc0let me jump in a bit please, in glance there was bug cleanup day20:07
ryansbdoes cleanup == triage ?20:07
shardyThere's a huge number of old blueprints too20:07
inc0its about tagging, triaging, confirming, setting priority20:07
stevebakercould we use this chance to abandon ancient changes too? with a nice message20:07
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asalkeldmaybe make an entherpad and propose blueprints to die?20:08
shardystevebaker: +100020:08
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inc0asalkeld, what about discussing it ad hoc here at irc?20:09
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stevebakerHow about the 26th to do this? next week20:09
inc0if we'll all be focused on this, it should be pretty efficient20:09
asalkeldso is one day enough20:09
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zanebstevebaker, shardy: what would we want to abandon that isn't auto-abandoned already?20:09
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shardyzaneb: there is no auto-abandon anymore AFAIK20:10
inc0one workday in every tz20:10
stevebakerzaneb: auto abandon hasn't been a thing for many months20:10
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ryansbThanksgiving is on the 27th, so many US folks will be travelling, FWIW20:10
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asalkeldzaneb, we need to do auto abandon's job now20:10
shardyso there's stuff sitting there for months with negative feedback and no updates from the owner20:10
inc03rd dec?20:10
asalkeldi'll be traveling20:10
shardyzaneb: It's been discussed (again) on the ML recently, some folks like crufty old patches, apparently20:11
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stevebaker2nd dec?20:11
asalkeldi am more in favor of doing this over a week - not sure it can be done in  a day20:11
inc0or 1st, monday - everyone hates mondays so will try to get over with this asap;)20:11
stevebakerinc0: that is my Sunday20:11
mdulkoWhy not 24th or 25th?20:12
asalkeldok let's make it the 2nd20:12
stevebakerinc0: oh, I mean Tuesday. as you were20:12
asalkeldand see how it goes20:12
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stevebakerasalkeld: want to send out an announcement?20:12
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asalkeld#action asalkeld to send out an announcement about the bug cleanup day20:13
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asalkeldplease have a look ^20:13
asalkeldis randall about?20:14
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skraynev_I still think about API :)20:14
asalkeldwe need a stable branch liaison20:14
zanebasalkeld: I can take stable branch if you like20:14
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asalkeldcool, just put your name there20:14
asalkeldVulnerability management20:14
asalkeldany takers?20:15
shardyasalkeld: Why do we need a liason for that when there's already a dedicated sub-team?20:15
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skraynev_shardy: I supppose it's just contanc person20:15
asalkeldshardy, cos' it's on the page and someone is asking?20:15
pas-hashardy, laison maintains the members of the $PROJECT-coresec team i20:15
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stevebakersomeone involved in running a public heat endpoint would be ideal for vuln management20:16
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asalkeldagree, anyone from rax here?20:16
jasond`asalkeld: me20:16
shardyasalkeld: Sure, I'm just saying it doesn't make much sense, beyond the fashion for liason-al-the-things ;)20:16
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asalkeldjasond`, you keen?20:16
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asalkeldshardy, you want to take an action to fight it?20:17
jasond`asalkeld: let me talk to randall about that and get back to you20:17
shardyasalkeld: Not really20:17
stevebakerpresumably the PTL is the default liaison for all the things20:17
zanebwho are the current members of the VM team?20:17
jasond`asalkeld: he stepped away for a minute20:17
zanebiirc it's me, shardy and jasond`?20:17
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asalkeldjasond`, no problem20:17
stevebakerzaneb: I thought I was on it too, can't recall20:17
shardyzaneb: I believe I'm on it20:17
zaneboh yeah, I think stevebaker also20:18
stevebakerwe don't have enough vulnerabilities to have a process20:18
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jasond`that's right, i am already on it :)20:18
shardystevebaker: \o/ ;)20:18
zanebso I think it's just a case of one of us being the first contact point20:18
asalkeldjasond`, said he would talk to randall about it20:19
asalkeldAPI working group20:19
asalkeldthat might be a bit more work20:19
asalkeldlots of meetings20:19
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asalkeldryansb, ?20:20
stevebakeryr not selling it20:20
stevebakerStatus! Influence! Parties!20:20
ryansbyou have to say "lots of meetings WITH BEER"20:20
skraynev_stevebaker: thumbs up!20:20
asalkeldryansb, doh20:21
ryansbbut I'd be interested, thought I'm not core20:21
asalkeldi don't think that is a problem20:21
stevebakerI assume that is not a requirement20:21
asalkeldryansb, you are it20:21
zanebyeah, I don't see that as a big obstacle20:21
mdulkoThe liaison should be a core reviewer for the project, but does not need to be the PTL20:21
mdulkoThey say20:21
ryansbI just wasn't sure how strong the "should" was in their description20:21
asalkeldryansb, is working hard at core - right?20:22
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ryansbI'll put my name in, and see if they kick me out.20:22
zanebryansb has a direct line to like half the core reviewers, so he shouldn't have any trouble getting stuff landed ;)20:22
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asalkeldok, if anyone want to do release management, that is now also up for grabs20:23
zanebasalkeld: nobody wants to release management20:23
asalkeldbut i assumed that ^20:23
shardyThat's the really "fun" part of being a PTL ;)20:24
asalkeldok, lets move on20:24
asalkeld#topic project meetings20:24
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asalkeldso regarding the cpl's - you are encouraged to now attend the project meeting too20:24
asalkeldcpl's == cross project liaisons20:25
stevebakerasalkeld: ah, I didn't know that20:25
asalkeldthat's new20:25
asalkeldoptional, but encouraged20:25
stevebakerI often lurk anyway20:25
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asalkeldmoving on20:25
asalkeld#topic Mid cycle meetup planning20:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Mid cycle meetup planning (Meeting topic: heat)"20:26
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asalkeldso the poll is very even20:26
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inc0maybe hangouts then?20:27
asalkeldwhich is just saying no one really wants to travel20:27
asalkeldinc0, yip20:27
asalkeldi propose we don't travel to a midcycle20:27
inc0we might have hard time with tz difference then20:27
inc0but we can schedule topic sessions in hours convenient with interested people20:28
asalkeldinc0 i think the trick is to have topical discussions20:28
zanebI propose we don't use hangouts, because I don't have Google+20:28
asalkeldso we don't need everyone20:28
zanebrussellb has some sort of WebRTC thing we could use I believe20:28
skraynev_zaneb: :)20:28
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asalkeldzaneb, i am not stressed what we use20:28
inc0we can set up mumble server;)20:28
asalkeldnot really the point, as long as it works20:28
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asalkeldare people ok with trying this?20:29
inc0or whatever works, we all work in huge corpos...I think we can manage to get one teleco bridge or external server;)20:29
stevebakerwe should give it a decent attempt20:29
ryansbYeah, major plus of remote-midcycle is we can record20:30
stevebakerwhy not bluejeans?20:30
zaneb+1, travel was looking more or less impossible to get approved20:30
asalkeld#action asalkeld to announce the "remote" midcycle20:30
shardystevebaker: Yeah I was thinking that might work20:30
asalkeldnext we can bike shed on the software to use20:30
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stevebakerand the timezone to sync to20:31
inc0we could start getting ideas for sessions too20:31
stevebakergoing nocturnal would be amusing20:31
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asalkeldinc0, yeah20:31
ryansbwe should write oslo.webrtc ;)20:31
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asalkeldi think if everyone attends it won't work20:31
inc0meetup as a service?20:31
skraynev_ryansb: as additional plugin for Heat :)20:32
asalkeldwe need to have topics that apeal to a focused group20:32
asalkeldinc0, sure20:32
stevebakerso this won't be until Feb?20:32
asalkeldstevebaker, i guess20:33
asalkeldbut it's cheap, so we could do it when ever20:33
asalkeldi think we just need a process for setting up a discussion20:33
inc0we could do it more than once if it would be required20:34
asalkeldok, lets move on we had some other topics20:34
asalkeld#topic rpc versioning20:35
*** openstack changes topic to "rpc versioning (Meeting topic: heat)"20:35
asalkeldshardy, ^20:35
asalkeldi hope the topic is what you wanted20:35
shardySo my question is, what needs to happen so we actually solve the versioning on upgrade problem?20:35
shardystevebaker mentioned bumping versions on a review recently, then it later occurred to me that it doesn't actually solve anything, or does it?20:35
stevebakerRPC_API_VERSION looks like it meets a need. Rev it on API changes, then make calls with the requested version. You will end up with an engine that responds with that version20:36
asalkeldwhy don't you think it solves a problem20:36
asalkeldone problem is: speaking to an older engine20:37
shardystevebaker: Does something have the retry logic on the client side to keep trying different engines if it hits one with the wrong version?20:37
pas-hastevebaker, what if noone answers? timeout?20:37
zanebI'm guessing it depends a lot on the nature of the change you're making20:37
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inc0I think horizon has that in config file20:38
stevebakershardy: surely a newer engine will respond first time. Upgrade instructions will need to be 0. upgrade database 1. upgrade some engines, 2. upgrade everything else in any order20:38
inc0can't we just mimic this approach?20:38
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zanebstevebaker: that's backwards20:38
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inc0(if I understand problem correctly, which I may not.)20:39
asalkeldstevebaker, we agreed at summit we need to support tripelo upgrades20:39
zanebengine(s) have to be upgraded before DB20:39
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stevebakerinc0: afaik horizon doesn't do rpc calls20:39
shardystevebaker: So in the transition, you have a mixture of engine verions, what happens when an upgraded API hits a too-old engine?20:39
asalkeldupgrade all software, then db20:39
shardyIs there code in oslo.messaging which round-robins until it gets a match?20:39
stevebakershardy: it doesn't, because the calls request the version they need20:39
zaneband also TripleO is doing this awkward thing where they deploy an API and an engine together, so that they both get upgraded at the same time :/20:40
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asalkeldshardy, that's on versioned objects20:40
shardystevebaker: But each engine supports exactly one version, doesn't it?20:40
inc0how about getting topic excheange on amqp20:40
inc0and have 2 queues for each version20:40
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inc0for transition?20:40
inc0and when calling rpc, we'll specify which queue it should land on?20:40
stevebakershardy: client requesting 1.0 can be serviced by a 1.1 engine20:40
stevebakershardy: the vast majority of our API changes are backwards compatible minor revs20:41
pas-hastevebaker, so 1.x must be backward-compat?20:41
asalkeldinc0, that sounds messy for the operator20:41
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stevebakerzaneb: upgrading in pairs should be fine20:41
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inc0asalkeld, it might, but we can make that semi-automatic20:41
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shardystevebaker: Ok, so if all engine upgrades are backwards compatible, what does the version buy us over documenting the engine must be upgraded first?20:42
zanebstevebaker: well, it's a PITA because it means you have to maintain both backwards and upwards compat20:42
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inc0zaneb, +1 if we made one mistake, we'd need to live with it forever and ever20:43
stevebakershardy: because engine->engine calls need a new engine. engine 1 does a call requesting 1.2, a 1.2 engine responds.20:43
asalkeldshardy, can we go look and see what other projects do?20:43
asalkeldseems like this should be a solved problem20:43
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stevebakerI think we are discussing the solved problem20:44
shardyasalkeld: Sure, and if it's solved then great20:44
mdulkoIs it? Nova guys were discussing it also at the summit.20:44
stevebakerwe just need to get better at reving RPC_API_VERSION and calling the version required, so keep an eye out for RPC API changes in reviews20:45
shardyI was confused because it's not clear how this should work looking at the code, and the discussion of versioned objects sounded like that was required to solve this properly20:45
zanebit's really hard to discuss this in general terms, outside the context of a specific change20:45
zanebbecause every change is potentially different20:45
asalkeldmdulko, yeah - their's is based on the versioned objects20:45
inc0mdulko, did they threw any ideas?20:45
asalkeldzaneb, +120:45
mdulkoinc0, asalkeld already replied20:45
shardyzaneb: Well what's triggered my interest is the recently merged decouple-nested RPC additions20:45
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stevebakermdulko: they are passing complex objects over RPC, so they need versioned objects. Currently we have only method arguments with simple types20:46
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shardyzaneb: stevebaker asked for a version bump, but unfortunately the patches got merged anyway20:46
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stevebakershardy: can you submit a rev change as a follow up?20:46
shardyI'm trying to figure out how big a problem that is, and how we handle RPC changes at reiew time in future20:46
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shardystevebaker: Sure, if that fixes a problem20:46
zanebshardy: so that is adding extra parameters, without which it presumably breaks something, so it needs a version bump20:47
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stevebakershardy: we can point others at this change "-1, do this"20:47
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asalkeldshardy, we probably need a javlin test20:47
pas-hamay be we should bump the rpc version not with every little change? but "cumulatively", say on milestones?20:47
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asalkeldpas-ha, but people are doing cd20:47
zanebshardy: or perhaps it just returns an error? in which case maybe it's OK (though not ideal, obvs)20:47
stevebakerpas-ha: there is lots of heat CD20:47
shardyasalkeld: Yes, if anyone wants to take on getting grenade/javelin working that would be awesome20:47
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shardyasalkeld: I started but gave up on it as it's hard to get working locally20:48
asalkeldok, that sucks20:48
stevebakershould we move on?20:49
asalkeldstevebaker, what was your topic?20:49
stevebakerRPC exceptions20:49
asalkeld#topic rpc exceptions20:49
*** openstack changes topic to "rpc exceptions (Meeting topic: heat)"20:49
stevebakerso exceptions on api->engine calls are handled by the fault middleware, but we need some thought on what to do about engine->engine exceptions20:50
skraynev_stevebaker: could you give example when it may happen?20:51
zanebcatch them?20:51
asalkeldok, so serialising them20:51
stevebakerif a NotFound exception is raised the result on the client side has the type heat.common.exception_Remote.NotFound_Remote, which can't be specified in a static except20:51
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zanebstevebaker: so your point is that the RPC API doesn't behave enough like the ReST API for the purposes of the client plugins?20:52
asalkeldso we need something in the rpc client to map it like middleware does20:52
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stevebakerwhich means we either need to change all our error paths to check for these made up remote types, or do some wrapping in the RPC client to raise the real exceptions again. I'd like to discuss which is best20:53
asalkeldcouldn't we move the fault middleware into the rpc client?20:53
zanebhow many error paths are we talking about?20:53
asalkeldto have this stuff in one place20:53
stevebakerasalkeld: that is just formatting the error for the user, we need something quite different in the engine20:54
zanebwhat are we doing engine-engine RPC for other than shardy's nested stack changes?20:54
asalkeldzaneb, not much now20:54
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asalkeldsoon more20:54
stevebakerzaneb: my software-deployment changes. Not much now but eventually all the things20:54
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shardyzaneb: stevebaker's moved softwareconfig to that model, and in future, won't convergence work in a similar way?20:55
pas-hazaneb, stop, signal20:55
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zanebshardy: convergence will never get a reply at all20:55
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stevebakerzaneb: anything which catches a HeatException or subclass thereof20:55
zanebit's completely async20:55
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zanebstevebaker: isn't that localised to a client plugin though? couldn't you do the translation there?20:55
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stevebakerzaneb: you mean heat.rpc.client.EngineClient? yes. I think it would need every method call to check for every known thrown exception to re-raise it though20:57
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stevebakeranyway, I've raised the issue, we don't need to solve it now20:58
asalkeld#topic open discussion20:58
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"20:58
asalkeld(for 2mins)20:58
asalkeldnot very open ended:-O20:58
zanebstevebaker: no, I mean a client plugin that talks to the RPC client instead of python-heatclient20:59
ryansbopen, but with a low ttl20:59
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stevebakerzaneb: there is no such thing. resources are making rpc calls directly21:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 19 21:00:28 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes (text):
asalkeldthanks everyone21:00
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zanebstevebaker: but if there *were* such a thing... that would be the place to handle it, right?21:00
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