Tuesday, 2015-01-13

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darrencmsq NickServ identify debbie1003:29
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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 13 08:00:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:00
anteayaanyone here for the third-party meeting?08:00
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jyusoanteaya: hi08:03
anteayahello jyuso08:03
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anteayajyuso: how are things going?08:03
jyusoanteaya: our CI is online few hours before.still many works to do:)08:04
anteayagood for you!08:04
jyusoanteaya: thanks08:04
anteayaany questions or issues you want to talk about today?08:05
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jyusoanteaya: OK.I have a question about gerrit trigger08:06
anteayajyuso: great, ask away08:06
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jyusoThe gerrit trigger would return such message to Gerrit "gerrit review <CHANGE>,<PATCHSET> --message 'Build Started <BUILDURL> <STARTED_STATS>' --verified <VERIFIED> --code-review <CODE_REVIEW>"08:08
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anteayaokay08:08
anteayawhat is your question about what gerrit trigger returns?08:09
jyusoYes.I saw some CI return more useful messages.Like URL,sign and many lines.If I want my messages become such pattern,Did that mean I just modify --message '' and it will worked?08:11
anteayawell you need to make sure it does not report "Build Started"08:12
anteaya#link http://ci.openstack.org/third_party.html#requirements08:12
amotokijyuso: as you may know, one CI should return one message per patchset.08:12
jyusoyes,I've abandon "Build started".08:12
anteayaA third-party system may only leave one comment per patch set (unless it is retriggered).08:13
anteayaamotoki: thank you :D08:13
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jyusoamotoki: yes,I know that.thanks08:13
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amotokijyuso: AFAIK there is no easy way to report multiple lines.08:13
anteayajyuso: so yes as amotoki says, you can only post a message to gerrit once the results are returned08:13
anteayalet's take a look at some examples, shall we?08:13
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anteayajyuso: can you find a patch that has a comment in the format you want to copy?08:14
jyusoamotoki: oh,you mean I can't use Gerrit trigger to report multiple lines?08:14
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jyusoanteaya: Maybe this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135625/08:16
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amotokijyuso: AFAIK yes08:16
anteayajyuso: which ci account should we look at?08:16
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jyusoanteaya: I think the partten of "IBM PowerKVM CI" is good.and they support us more usefule information08:17
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anteayaamotoki: do you use gerrit trigger?08:17
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amotokianteaya: at first I used gerrit trigger, but soon after I migrated to zuul08:17
anteayajyuso: great well that makes it easy, krtaylor is an operator for IBM PowerKVM CI, ask him in -infra how to create that comment format08:18
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anteayajyuso: he is in Texas08:18
amotokijyuso: I think most CIs including IBM CI use zuul. It is a format used by zuul report.08:18
anteayaamotoki: does zuul allow you to customize your gerrit comments?08:18
amotokiyes, but I think we can only customize the first line.08:19
anteayaamotoki: really in zuul?08:19
anteayaSergeyLukjanov: are you about?08:20
amotokiyes. let me check08:20
jyusoamotoki: Oh,thanks.I think that should be the reason.08:20
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anteayajyuso: are you considering using zuul?08:20
jyusoamotoki: I can't find out how to show such rich information with Gerrit triger:)08:20
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jyusoanteaya: oh,may be later.we don't need the nodepool script of zuul.08:21
anteayajyuso: okay08:21
jyusoanteaya: our case is based on physical machine.each VM should be created with PCI device08:22
amotoki we can customize message by using *-message in http://ci.openstack.org/zuul/zuul.html#pipelines08:22
anteayajyuso: well if using gerrit trigger limits what kind of comment you can generate, can you get by with customizing one line?08:22
anteayaamotoki: thanks08:22
jyusoanteaya: our comments is in that URL also.08:23
jyusovanteaya: very simple:(08:23
anteayajyuso: sorry which URL?08:23
anteayaI seem to have lost track08:23
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jyusoamotoki: thanks.I'll check some details.08:23
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jyusoanteaya: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135625/08:24
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anteayajyuso: okay yes, so elminate: Patch Set 17:08:24
anteayaBuild Started08:24
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anteayaand Patch Set 18:08:25
anteayaBuild Successful http://198.175.100.33/135625/1808:25
anteayais perfectly fine08:25
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anteayayou have this message in your logs: Intel HW Based PCI CI08:26
jyusoanteaya: yes.I've delete that "Build Started" after patch set 17:)08:26
anteayaIntel PCI CI is based on physical machine,cover PCI pass-through and SRIOV testing.08:26
anteayaThe test cases running on this CI is located on Github repository.08:26
anteayaContact email:openstack_ci@intel.com08:26
anteayagreat thank you08:26
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anteayaand I think customizing your message in your logs is just fine08:26
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jyusoanteaya: OK,I think we should add such script info and wiki info into comments.It seems better08:27
anteayaokay08:28
anteayaI support more information08:28
anteayado investigate what is possible08:28
anteayagerrit trigger does have limitations08:28
amotokijyuso: my suggestion is to migrate to zuul once you have set up a basic functionality of your CI. zuul allows you to define trigger conditions easily and post better comment.08:28
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jyusoanteaya: yes.thanks.I'll.08:28
amotokiThe migration path is very simple:08:29
amotokisetup zuul and remove gerrit trigger from your jobs.08:29
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amotokianother gerrit trigger limitation is it is not easy to support "recheck" trigger :(08:30
anteayaamotoki: yes that is true08:30
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jyusoamotoki: Could I add messages which regexp "recheck"  into trigger condition of Gerrit trigger ?08:33
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jyusoamotoki: That's what I thought.but not try yet.08:33
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amotokijyuso: iirc, we cannot.08:33
amotokibut I thought arista shared a patch to support it.08:34
amotokiI saw a mailing list post several months ago (one year?).08:34
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anteayaamotoki: yes I remember that08:36
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jyusoamotoki: ok...thank you.08:36
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anteaya#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Arista-third-party-testing08:38
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anteayanow the instructions are in a google doc, Sukhdev said he would try to get it transfered to the wikipage but that hasn't happened yet08:38
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amotokijyuso: It is my blog post on zuul config and switching from gerrit trigger: http://ritchey98.blogspot.jp/2014/02/openstack-third-party-testing-how-to.html08:40
anteaya#link http://ritchey98.blogspot.jp/2014/02/openstack-third-party-testing-how-to.html08:40
jyusoamotoki: thanks:)08:40
anteayathanks for sharing that amotoki :D08:40
amotokijyuso: but note that zuul configuraiton is a bit old and the latst zuul with merger is not coming yet....08:40
amotokii need to update my CI master soon so i can update my post. feel free to ask me.08:42
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jyusoamotoki: thanks.I'll read your blog later.It looks like very useful:)08:43
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jyusoanteaya: thanks.I think I've got lots of useful information.my question is over:)08:45
anteayajyuso: thank you, I appreciate you letting me know08:45
anteayaI'm glad you got some useful information08:45
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anteayashall we discuss anything else?08:47
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amotokinothing from me08:47
anteayaamotoki: thanks for being here to answer questions08:47
anteaya:D08:47
anteayaI appreciate it08:48
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jyusoamotoki: thank you very much:)08:49
anteayawould you like me to end the meeting so you can move onto other things?08:49
anteayaI don't want to keep you08:49
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anteayaI'll end the meeting08:51
jyusoanteaya: OK,i have no more question08:51
anteayathanks for attending08:51
jyusoanteaya: thank you anteaya:08:51
anteayajyuso: okay great08:51
anteayasee you next week08:51
amotokithanks all08:51
jyusoanteaya: see you08:51
anteayathank you amotoki08:51
anteaya#endmeeting08:51
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:51
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 13 08:51:42 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:51
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-13-08.00.html08:51
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-13-08.00.txt08:51
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-13-08.00.log.html08:51
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anteaya#startmeeting nova-net-to-neutron-migration09:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 13 09:00:43 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.09:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_net_to_neutron_migration'09:00
jlibosvahi09:00
anteayajlibosva: hello09:01
obondarevo/09:01
anteayawelcome, I'm glad you are here09:01
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anteayaobondarev: oleg how are you?09:01
obondarevme too:)09:01
anteayaobondarev: how were your holidays?09:01
belmoreirahi09:01
anteayaobondarev: :D09:01
obondarevanteaya: Good, thank you :)09:01
anteayabelmoreira: welcome09:01
obondarevanteaya: how are you?09:01
anteayaobondarev: wonderful09:01
anteayaobondarev: good thanks, enjoying a lovely new zealand evening09:01
obondarevanteaya: wow, cool!09:02
anteayaanyone else here for the migration meeting?09:02
anteayaobondarev: it is lovely09:02
anteayaobondarev: we have to figure out how to get you to lca next year09:02
obondarevanteaya: sorry, where?)09:02
anteayaobondarev: linux conference austrailia09:02
obondarevanteaya: ah, I see)09:03
anteayaso we do have a bit of an agenda09:03
anteayalet's take a look, shall we?09:03
anteaya#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova-nettoNeutronMigration09:03
anteaya#topic the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev)09:04
*** openstack changes topic to "the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:04
obondarevanteaya: yep09:04
anteayaobondarev: would you care to share your thoughts?09:04
obondarevsure09:04
obondarevso I continue working on the spec, uploaded new revision yesterday09:04
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anteayawonderful, thank you09:04
obondarevthanks to Joe Gordon, Jacub and others for being active reviewers09:04
obondarevstill would be good to have more people taking part in the discussion09:05
obondarevon gerrit09:05
anteayayes, I agree09:05
obondarevI'm also working on the prototype in parallel09:05
anteayahow do you mean?09:05
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obondarevwhich is the first part of the proposed plan - Neutron proxy mode09:05
obondarevI mean in arallel with spec discussions09:06
obondarevp*09:06
anteayaokay09:06
anteayawhere are you working on that?09:06
obondarevmostly locally, haven't posted anything to gerrit yet09:07
anteayacan you put something up?09:07
anteayaI don't want to see effort wasted09:07
anteayaand would like to see where you are heading09:07
anteayamay I jump in here with some additional comments?09:07
anteayaor would you like to continue?09:07
obondarevYeah, I think I'll post initial version in two days09:07
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obondarevsure09:08
anteayaokay thanks09:08
anteayaso there are a few people involved in this who are at linux conference australia in auckland this week09:08
anteayaso we took the time to sit down on monday and share some thoughts09:09
anteayamichael still took nots on an etherpad and has had the time to post that link publicly yet09:09
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anteayabut we want to share the information with everyone whcih is why we put it in and etherpad09:09
anteayasorry I don't have that link09:09
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obondarevno worries09:10
anteayaso I was there and michael still, joe gordon, mark, angus09:10
obondarevcool!09:10
anteayajim blair and david lyle (mostly because they were available)09:10
belmoreiraanteaya: the discussion in lca diverged from the spec?09:11
anteayaand we think that there needs to be more attention on the spec so that is good09:11
anteayabelmoreira: well I think mostly we agreed that it needs more detail09:11
anteayaand we acknowledge oleg is doing a great job09:11
obondarevfor sure09:11
obondarevI mean more details)09:12
anteayabut needs more support than he has gotten so far09:12
anteayayes more details09:12
anteayamore details for testing09:12
anteayaa better understanding of what priorties are important to cern09:12
anteayasuch as tolerance for downtime and allowance for rolling upgrades09:12
anteayathose sorts of questions09:13
anteayacern being the model use case for deployers here09:13
obondarevJoe posted some of those question on the spec09:13
anteayayes, we are trying to capture this in the spec09:13
anteayaand trying to work together to get some answers09:13
anteayathe over all direction I believe is where we want to go09:13
anteayawe just need to work now to get some more exact answers09:14
obondarev+09:14
anteayaso gus, mark and I are going to sit down this week09:14
anteayaand work on another patchset to the spec09:14
anteayaI hpoe that is okay with you obondarev09:14
obondarevsure09:14
anteayato fill in the blanks on some of these questions09:14
anteayaobondarev: thank you :D09:15
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anteayaand then go through a review cycle again09:15
obondarevthank you all:)09:15
anteayanow mark, joe, michael still and myself will be at the nova mid-cycle in two weeks09:15
anteayaobondarev: it would be awesome to have you there too, oleg but that would be too difficult to arrange now I think09:16
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obondarevI think so too09:16
anteayaand hopefully by continuing to work on the spec we can be a little closer to agreement on how to implement the migration09:16
anteayadoes this sound acceptable?09:16
obondarevyes09:17
obondarevone point from Joe was that it'll be good to break the spec in its curent state in two parts09:17
anteayagreat, thanks so much for your understanding09:17
obondarevone describing the overall process, what we're trying to achieve eventually09:17
obondarevwhich starting points and which end points09:17
obondarevthis I guess should be a cross project specification09:17
anteayaobondarev: yes, right now joe is advocating for a two part/two patch approach09:17
obondarevthe other describing technical implementation details09:18
anteayawell lets' see how much we can retain within neutron09:18
anteayasince everytime we expand we introduce more waiting time09:18
obondarevagree09:18
anteayaI'll work with angus and mark to see if we can capture the details in joe's idea of a two part approach in the spec09:19
anteayaso taht it makes sense with everyone09:19
obondarevgreat, thank you09:19
anteayaso hopefully that should be up for review by the end of thursday09:19
anteayathursday new zealand time09:19
anteayaso I look forward to your review and comments on that patchset09:20
anteayaso anything more here on this topic?09:20
obondarevnot from my side09:20
anteayabelmoreira: anything more right now?09:20
jlibosvasorry I don't know much the names mentioned here :)09:21
jlibosvaI wanted to ask whether there are also folks from nova09:21
anteayajlibosva: ah sorry09:21
jlibosvaas we'll probably need to file a nova spec too09:21
anteayajlibosva: yes a good question, I shouldn't assume everyone knows eveyone else09:21
jlibosvaI saw there were some concerns about contacting conductor directly09:21
anteayamichael still is the nova ptl09:21
belmoreiraanteays: no, thx09:21
obondarevright, that's on the agenda09:21
anteayajoe gordon is a nova core09:21
jlibosvaah, thanks :) I should have probably known that09:22
anteayaso yes, we have some input from nova here09:22
anteayajlibosva: good question it is important to check09:22
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anteayajlibosva: you can't know everything09:22
anteayaand I prefer people ask09:22
anteayasince if you do't know there are probably others that don't know either09:23
anteayathanks for giving me the chance to clarify09:23
anteayaso yes, let's move onto the next topic09:23
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anteaya#topic Nova spec, do we need one? if yes, who will create it?09:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova spec, do we need one? if yes, who will create it? (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:23
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anteayaso right now joe doesn't feel we need a separate nova spec09:23
anteayaor if we do, it will just be a pointer to the neutron spec09:24
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anteayawe have gotten permission from michael still to have a nova spec exception if we need it09:24
anteayasince this is a high priority effort09:24
belmoreiraanteaya: but there are any nova changes expected?09:24
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obondarevbelmoreira: I guess so09:25
anteayabelmoreira: good question09:25
anteayawell I don't know exactly09:25
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anteayathis is one of the things I want clarified in the next patchset for the neutron spec09:25
anteayaso after that patchset is posted hopefully we all will have a clearer picture09:25
obondarevnot sure it's good to include technical detail of changes in neutron and in nova into one single spec..09:26
obondarevok09:26
anteayaobondarev: true09:26
anteayabut let's see what shape the new patchset takes09:26
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anteayaand then comment in reviews09:26
obondarevmakes sense09:26
anteayabut the short version is that _if_ we need a nova spec, we have gotten permission to create one09:27
anteayaeven though it is passed the deadline09:27
obondarevawesome09:27
belmoreiraanteaya: great09:27
anteayaone of the things we talked about at our in person meeting09:27
anteayais that this effort keeps being hindered by the release cycle09:27
anteayaso we need to keep up this effort09:27
anteayawe don't know if we can make kilo or not09:28
anteayabut if we don't, we need to stay focused and keep working09:28
anteayasince dropping off work due to a release really puts us behind09:28
anteayaso we are going to focus on agreeing to the work first09:28
anteayaand not worry about deadlines for releases09:28
belmoreiraanteaya: +109:29
anteayafolks on both sides neutron and nova have agreed to this09:29
anteayaso if we see an obstacle we have support to keep working and have folks help to move the obstacle out of the way09:29
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anteayaany more thoughts here or comments?09:30
anteayaI'll take that as no09:30
anteayaand move onto the next topic09:30
anteaya#topic documentation09:31
*** openstack changes topic to "documentation (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:31
anteayaso in patchset 3 of the neutron spec09:31
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anteayaannegentle_ offered to recommend someone to help with documentation09:31
obondarevso Edgar was willing to help with this09:31
anteayaI think this is a great idea09:31
anteayaobondarev: wonderful09:31
anteayawe can't ahve too much help in documentation09:31
obondarevas he stated here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-nova-nova-network-to-neutron09:32
obondarevdidn't have a chance to reach him yet09:32
obondarevagree09:32
anteayaI would like to follow up with annegentle_ to see who she might recommend09:32
anteayaobondarev: great, would you like to follow up?09:32
anteayaobondarev: can you talk with both edgar and annegentle_?09:32
obondarevsure09:32
anteayabetter to have too much help in documentation rather than not enough09:33
obondarevI'll reach Edgar shortly09:33
anteayaplus that also gets us more review eyes on patches09:33
anteayaobondarev: great thanks09:33
anteayalet's keep documentation as a regular topic for this meeting09:33
obondarev+109:33
anteayaso we can have your report obondarev next week on how you have made out09:33
anteayagreat thank you09:34
obondarevsure09:34
anteayaany one have anything else for documentation?09:34
jlibosvanope09:34
anteayagreat09:34
anteayamoving on09:34
anteaya#topic testing09:34
*** openstack changes topic to "testing (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:34
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anteayaso right now the testing portion of the spec is a little thin09:35
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obondarevit is09:35
anteayathat is to be understood as how to test this migration is largely unknown09:35
anteayabelmoreira: have you given any thought to what you would like to see for testing?09:35
obondarevI'd say it's known on a high level09:36
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anteayaobondarev: okay09:36
belmoreiraanteaya: what we are looking is if can be sone by stagaes (cell by cell)09:36
anteayabut I think we need some detail09:36
anteayabelmoreira: okay09:36
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anteayabelmoreira: have you made any comments or suggestions in the testing portion of the spec yet?09:37
anteayasorry I haven't gone though the history of all the comments09:37
belmoreirawe can setup "test cells" that we migrate for testing09:37
anteayabelmoreira: we meaning cern or we meaning openstack infra?09:37
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belmoreiraanteaya: this is how we at CERN are thinking to test all of this09:38
anteayabelmoreira: great, can you add some comments to the spec outlining what you have thought about for testing from CERN's point of view?09:39
belmoreiraanteaya: yes09:39
anteayainfra will be limited regarding what we can test09:39
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anteayabelmoreira: great thank you, that way we can incorporate what processes you can offer into the spec09:39
anteayais there anything else we can talk about regarding testing right now?09:40
anteayaI think we have a good place to start expanding that section then09:41
anteayathanks belmoreira09:41
anteayaI'll move on09:41
anteaya#topic Open Discussion09:41
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anteayadoes anyone have anything they would like to mention or discuss that we haven't already covered?09:41
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jlibosvaI would just like to update I did some work on dump/translate/restore nova db to neutron as per discussion with Oleg09:42
anteayajlibosva: thank you09:42
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obondarevgreat!09:42
anteayahave you a link to your work?09:42
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jlibosvanope, only locally. I plan to push WIP once it does some real translation (e.g. translate and create network)09:43
anteayajlibosva: let's get in the habit of submitting things to gerrit early09:43
anteayaeven if they don't work09:44
anteayaand marking them work in progress09:44
jlibosvaok09:44
anteayathank you09:44
anteayaI think it will save time in the long run09:44
anteayaand help others to see what we are thinking09:44
anteayaand hopefully reduce false starts09:44
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anteayaand let's bring the urls for those wip patches to this meeting09:45
anteayaso we can look at them and discuss them09:45
jlibosvamakes sense09:45
obondarevagree09:45
anteayathanks jlibosva09:45
anteayaand thanks for your work here, I look forward to reviewing the patches09:45
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anteayaI want you to feel supported in your work09:46
anteayaso let's show it off09:46
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obondarevanteaya: many thanks for your help and for for organizing these meetings09:46
anteayaobondarev: my pleasure, glad to help09:46
anteayaand thanks for understanding and supporting my role here09:47
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anteaya:D09:47
anteayashall we discuss anything else?09:47
anteayawell I think we have had a good second meeting, thanks obondarev for including a log of the first meeting in the ml post09:48
obondarevanteaya: sure09:48
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obondarevthanks everyone for joining!09:49
belmoreirathank you all for this amazing effort09:49
anteaya#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-December/053522.html09:49
anteayaand on that note, let's conclude the meeting09:49
anteayasee you all next week, don't stay quiet if you encounter blocks09:50
anteayafind someone and get unstuck09:50
anteayathank you all09:50
anteaya#endmeeting09:50
jlibosvathanks09:50
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:50
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 13 09:50:28 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:50
jlibosvabye09:50
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-01-13-09.00.html09:50
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-01-13-09.00.txt09:50
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-01-13-09.00.log.html09:50
obondarevbye09:50
anteayabye09:50
belmoreirabye09:51
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mesteryHi neutron developers and users!13:59
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anteayao/13:59
ihrachyshkao/14:00
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kevinbenton\o14:00
amotokihi14:00
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jlibosva\o/14:00
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banixhi14:00
yamahatahello14:00
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pc_mHi14:01
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mestery#startmeeting networking14:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 13 14:02:12 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:02
salv-orlandoaloha14:02
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda14:02
mestery#topic Announcements14:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"14:02
mesteryKilo-2 is February 514:02
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule14:02
mestery#link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/kilo-214:02
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hayposalv-orlando: hi. i'm here to discuss python 3 in neutronclient, is it the right place?14:03
mesteryWe have a lot of BPs targeted here, later in the meeting I want to go over the Essential and High priority ones14:03
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mesteryhaypo: It is, can we do that later in the meeting please?14:03
haypomestery: cool. no problem14:03
Steap\o14:03
mesteryOne other quick announcement: L2 Gateway API meeting is setup14:03
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Networking_L2_Gateway_meeting14:03
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mesteryAny other announcements from anyone else the team should be aware of?14:04
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mesteryIf not, we'll move on, the agenda is very thick near the bottom :)14:04
mestery#topic Bugs14:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:04
mesteryenikanorov enikanorov__: Are you around?14:04
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enikanorov__mestery: hi14:05
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mesteryenikanorov__: Any bugs you are tracking the team should be aware of?14:05
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enikanorov__yes14:06
enikanorov__https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/140329114:06
mesteryI know armax nailed one around a change in oslo.db last night which was causing all kinds of gate failures14:06
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1403291 in neutron "test_server_connectivity_pause_unpause fails with "AssertionError: False is not true : Timed out waiting for 172.24.4.64 to become reachable"" [Critical,Confirmed]14:06
armaxmestery bug #140329114:06
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1403291 in neutron "test_server_connectivity_pause_unpause fails with "AssertionError: False is not true : Timed out waiting for 172.24.4.64 to become reachable"" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/140329114:06
enikanorov__(was looking for the link)14:06
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salv-orlandoI reckon armax was about (or has) root caused it14:06
enikanorov__so, what was the issue with oslo.db?14:06
armaxenikanorov__: I haven’t had a chance to look into it yesterday...14:06
kevinbentonarmax: was the that one with the DHCP loss?14:06
enikanorov__i also didn't manage to find the root cause14:07
armaxsalv-orlando: not yet, I am still fishing for ideas…from what the logs can tell everything seems to be in order14:07
armaxkevinbenton: yes14:07
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armaxI have something I want to try, after being unsuccessful with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/146256/14:07
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salv-orlandoarmax: the only thing I can say is that I've seen thousands of those logs, and I've never seen messages from iptables dropping DHCP packets.14:07
armaxI thought that the debug info would help get us more clue…but with all the recheck I kicked I was unable to get a single failure14:08
salv-orlandoanyway, it's good to see there are 2 people on this... I think the agenda is thick today so we should move on14:08
enikanorov__salv-orlando: but those messages accompanying successful dhcp negotiations too14:08
armaxsalv-orlando: correct, but that message is totally unrealted14:08
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armaxsalv-orlando: and if I look at it closely it says to drop a packet coming from the client to the server14:09
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armaxand it’s a broadcast too14:09
mesteryarmax: But you could never trigger this with the tempest patch you proposed above to get more logs?14:09
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armaxsalv-orlando: I am reading it wrong? What we’re experiencing is a loss of the DHCPOFFER14:09
salv-orlandoarmax: ok. then the drop of dhcp packets observed is totally unrelated to a dhcp issue manifesting. I think you're doing it right, it must be a coincidence14:10
armaxmestery: this is a typical heisenbug, as soon as you start looking at it, it’ll hide in the shadows14:10
mestery:(14:10
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mesteryOK, thanks for tackling this one armax, please reach out to anyone you need as you peel back the onion :)14:10
kevinbentonarmax: well if the debug happens to fix it, we should merge it anyway to stop the failures :)14:10
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mesteryenikanorov__: Any other high priority bugs we should be aware of today?14:11
enikanorov__mestery: no14:11
mesteryenikanorov__: Thank you!14:11
mestery#topic Docs14:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:11
mesteryemagana: Any updates for today?14:11
armaxkevinbenton: I suspect there will be plenty of people who oppose the idea…but it might as well be that that patch put timings in a way that the bug doesn’t show up14:11
mesteryIn lieu of emagana not being around, lets move on, the agenda gets thick and contentious rather soon. :)14:12
mestery#topic Plugin Decomposition Status and Updates14:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Plugin Decomposition Status and Updates (Meeting topic: networking)"14:12
mesteryI wanted this on the agenda, and we'll likely do this every few weeks or so.14:12
mestery#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/kilo/core-vendor-decomposition.html14:13
mesteryAs everyone knows, this spec merged.14:13
armaxmestery: some folks have taken actions, which is good14:13
mesteryI know some people are in various states of implementing this for their plugins (yay!), and others are not (boo :()14:13
mesteryarmax: Yes14:13
mesteryI wanted to do a few things here:14:13
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mestery1) Allow for questions from folks. 2) Let people speak up with their success as they do this. 3) Let the leader of this effort (armax) have a moment to give us an overview of where he thinks things are at.14:13
mesteryarmax: You want to go first? :)14:14
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armaxI am no much of a leader, but ok14:14
armax:)14:14
armaxas I said we’ve had a number of folks starting14:14
armaxat the moment the things that I am looking at when I do reviews is to ensure that bug fixes or changes do not step on each others toes14:15
mesteryarmax: I know you and I have been reviewing stackforge creation reviews as well.14:16
mesteryarmax: One question I wanted clarified here is this:14:16
armaxso when fixing or changing things, people should keep in mind that ultimately the code they’re touching may end up elsewhere and they should act accordingly14:16
mesteryAre we now letting people create stackforge without the branches?14:16
mestery*stackforge projects14:16
kevinbentonmestery: are you referring to stable/x branches?14:16
armaxmestery: imo stable branches can be optional, but since the effort in mirroring them to the stackforge repo is minimal14:17
mesterykevinbenton: Yes14:17
armaxmestery: I don’t see why people leave them behind14:17
mesteryarmax: I agree with that sentiment14:17
mesteryarmax: Me either, but I've noticed more and more people are, and I just wanted to understand the official position from the spec author ;)14:17
armaxmestery: especially if people follow the instructions in the docref as a bible14:17
armaxthat said, stackforge is one option, but not the only one14:17
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armaxmidonet is going without stackforge14:17
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armaxmestery: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145792/14:18
mestery#info When creating a stackforge repository for your plugin/driver backend to comply with Plugin Decomposition, bringing along stable branches is optional.14:18
armaxand that is perfectly valid too14:18
mesteryYes, cool! I like to see multiple options here.14:18
anteayaif we could have folks acknowledge in the commit message their choice, that would help14:18
kevinbentonwe are requiring that it be open source somewhere, right?14:19
mestery#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145792/14:19
mesterykevinbenton: Yes14:19
anteayaas in "we choose to leave the stable branch behind"14:19
armaxanteaya: you beat me to it, I was going to say!14:19
anteayathen reviewers know they are aware14:19
anteayaarmax: :D14:19
armaxas infra ultimately are the ones who approve the stackforge patch14:19
armaxif one goes the stackforge route14:19
salv-orlandoarmax: if you're an atheist you would not follow anything as a 'bible' ;)14:19
armaxso it’s best to be proactive and tell them14:19
anteayabased on what you want14:19
mestery#info When creating your stackforge project, please indicate in the commit message your intent to carry stable branches.14:19
anteayawe just need to know14:19
armaxsalv-orlando: sorry, rulebook14:19
mesteryanteaya: Thanks for bringing that up here!14:20
armaxmestery: or lack thereof14:20
anteayasure14:20
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mesteryarmax: true14:20
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mesteryAny questions from anyone undergoing plugin decomposition that is hitting a wall somewhere?14:20
armaxmestery: I still need to complete the docref with a few other aspects14:20
mesteryarmax: True, and thanks!14:20
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armaxmestery: I’ll get to it asap14:21
amotokiwhat is the preferred way to track status per plugin? filing a bug?14:21
mesteryI should note that armax and I made some good progress on the ODL decomposition yesterday, I expect today we should have the ODL ML2 driver decomposed.14:21
mesteryamotoki: Yes, a wishlist bug for the neutron commit14:21
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amotokimestery: thanks for the clarification. i swa ODL filed a bug.14:21
mestery#info To track the neutron side of your plugin decomposition, please file a bug. It will be marked as Wishlist and you can use that for the commit in neutron.14:21
armaxamotoki: see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145792/14:21
armaxtoo14:22
mesteryThanks armax for your work here!14:22
mesteryIf anyone has quiestions, please reach out to armax or myself.14:22
mesteryLike I said, we'll do this every week so people ahve a standing slot to discuss any issues they are facing.14:23
salv-orlandomestery: for what is worth we have the decomposed plugin working. We're just waiting to make sure the CI is up and running also on the other vmware plugin we added and then maybe we'll just leave about 10 lines of code for integration14:23
ajohi, joining late :/14:23
salv-orlandoor perhaps 10 thousands :)14:23
mesterysalv-orlando: It's a small difference either way ;)14:23
armaxsalv-orlando: you’re always the funny one14:23
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mesteryOK, lets move on if there is nothing else here.14:24
mesteryThe thick part of the agenda awaits!14:24
mestery#topic Kilo-2 Specs of "Essential" and "High" Priority14:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Kilo-2 Specs of "Essential" and "High" Priority (Meeting topic: networking)"14:24
mesteryI wanted to walk through these now.14:24
mestery#link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/kilo-214:24
mesteryTo get an idea of where they are at, given we have 3 weeks left and the gate is getting more and more backlogged with each passing day.14:25
mesteryFirst one:14:25
mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/wsgi-pecan-switch14:25
mesterykevinbenton: This one is yours, you lucky guy ;)14:25
mesteryHave you had a chance to start on this one yet this week ?14:25
kevinbentonmestery: yes, this depends on the internal refactor14:25
mesterykevinbenton: You mean the next one on the list https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/plugin-interface-perestroika14:26
mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/plugin-interface-perestroika14:26
kevinbentonyes14:26
mesterysalv-orlando: That one belongs to you (lucky guy #2)!14:26
mestery:)14:26
salv-orlandomestery I am the proposer14:26
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salv-orlandoI think the main author is still markmcclain, with me in the role of code monkey14:26
mesterysalv-orlando: Ack, just looking for a status update.14:26
kevinbentonsalv-orlando: how is the code monkeying coming?14:27
mesteryFor these two specs, if we don't see code landing by next week, I fear they will miss Kilo-214:27
salv-orlandoIndeed I have not done absolutely any work on it. I hope there will be some when kevinbenton and markmcclain do their syncup14:27
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mesteryPer discussions with marun, I'd like to see these land in Kilo-2 so we can have Kilo-3 to sort any issues out.14:27
salv-orlandomestery: I don't know what to say. did kevinbenton speak with makr?14:27
salv-orlando* mark14:27
mesteryI think the plan is now for kevinbenton to just go to it14:27
mesterySo we can make progress.14:27
kevinbentonsalv-orlando: no, i haven't been able to land a meeting slot with him14:27
mesterykevinbenton: You have my authorization to move forward at this point, let me know what you need :)14:28
armaxmestery: +114:28
ajosounds reasonable14:28
armaxthere’s no point in keep on waiting now14:28
kevinbentonmestery: ack, so salv-orlando, did you want to start putting something together for the internal plugin interface?14:28
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mesterykevinbenton: marun has volunteered to work with you here as well, especially in bouncing ideas, etc.14:29
mesteryOK, lets move on to the next one.14:29
mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/reorganize-unit-test-tree14:29
salv-orlandokevinbenton: I will. I won't be afraid of pushing pointless and terrible code so we can work together on it to make it proper code14:29
mesteryThat one is assigned to marun, armax, do you by chance know if he's started on this yet?14:30
kevinbentonsalv-orlando: sounds great!14:30
salv-orlandobesides, that what I reguarly do14:30
mesterysalv-orlando: lol14:30
armaxmestery: I spoke with marun the other day14:30
armaxmestery: the effort is pretty mechanical for the reorganize-unit-test-tree bp14:30
mesteryarmax: Ack, sounds like it's under control then, thanks!14:31
armaxmestery: it’s a matter to get some focussed time and get it done14:31
ajomestery: I believe it was his intention, but not sure if started.14:31
ajoyes, just moving files around14:31
mesteryajo: thanks!14:31
mesteryOK, next one14:31
mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/restructure-l2-agent14:31
mesteryrossella_s owns this one, I haven't seen any code for this yet.14:31
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rossella_sUnfortunately not much progress on my side. Anyway completing the blueprint will be my priority for the next weeks, I will send a first patch in the next days. If anybody is interesting in contributing, please contact me.14:31
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mesteryrossella_s: Yay! Thank you for the update!14:31
mesteryNext up (moving quickly):14:32
mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/rootwrap-daemon-mode14:32
mesteryotherwiseguy: This one is yours now I believe.14:32
mesteryotherwiseguy: Looks like you've made a start on this one now, thanks for that!14:32
mesteryNext up14:32
ajothat's what I know, mestery  :)  he is focused on that14:32
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mesteryajo: Cool!14:33
mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/retargetable-functional-testing14:33
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mesteryI spoke with marun on this yesterday, he has a plan for this and is documenting it on the wiki14:33
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mestery#infoI spoke with marun on this yesterday, he has a plan for this and is documenting it on the wiki14:33
mesteryNext one:14:33
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mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/refactor-iptables-firewall-driver14:33
mesteryajo: This one is assigned to you I believe?14:33
mariosmestery: have some functional tests going for the ovs agent related to the spec rossella_s mentioned https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140042/14:33
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armaxmestery: we’re still shaking some issues with infra14:33
ajoHmm, mestery , I need to split the patch in three14:34
mesteryBleah! Sorry marios :)14:34
mesteryajo: OK, cool!14:34
ajomestery, will do during this week to have it ready for merge14:34
mesterymarios: Thanks!14:34
armaxmestery: re the retargetable-functional-testing14:34
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mesteryarmax: Ack14:34
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mesteryThanks ajo!14:34
mesteryNext up:14:34
mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vsctl-to-ovsdb14:34
armaxmestery: once that’s cleared, it should be downhill… :)14:34
mesteryotherwiseguy has some patches out for this one as well, so it's looking good14:34
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ajohmm mestery14:35
mesteryajo: ???14:35
ajoabout the refactor-iptables-driver bp, It's assigned to me, but the work I have done is not referenced to that spec14:35
ajoit was a general cleanup before that14:35
ajonot sure who's working on that specific spec14:35
ajojakub?14:36
jlibosvaI'm just looking at it14:36
salv-orlandoso what is your work related to?14:36
ajojlibosva ^14:36
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jlibosvaseems like the specs what I proposed14:36
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mesteryjlibosva: Shall I move that one to you then?14:36
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jlibosvamestery: yes please, thanks14:36
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ajosalv-orlando  my patch is to the current iptables firewall driver, to cleanup lots of small inconsistencies and code which could be refactored but without rearchitecturing14:36
jlibosvaI'll sync with ajo after meeting14:36
ajoack14:36
salv-orlandoajo: thanks14:37
mesteryjlibosva: Done, thanks!14:37
mesteryOK, moving on14:37
mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/lbaas-api-and-objmodel-improvement14:37
mesterydougwig has informed me he and blogan and team are on this and expect to get this one done by Kilo-214:37
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mesteryThat work is all being done in neutron-lbaas14:38
mesteryNext up14:38
mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/restructure-l3-agent14:38
mesterycarl_baldwin: You have a lot of working going on here :)14:38
carl_baldwinWe’re actively working the meaty part14:38
mesterycarl_baldwin: Yay!14:38
ajoyeah, amazing work carl_baldwin14:38
carl_baldwinKilo-2 will be tight for completion but we should be over the hump14:39
mesterycarl_baldwin: Excellent, we can deal with the logistics of kilo-2 vs. kilo-3 when we get there, but sounds like the majority of the work will make kilo-2. great!14:39
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carl_baldwinThere are a number of contributors doing good work.14:39
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sc68cal++14:39
mesteryExcellent!14:40
mesteryOK, moving on (mestery keeps his eye on the clock ...)14:40
mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-ovs-dvr-vlan14:40
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mesteryI spoke to Vivek, and he has pushed the patch which implements this, his next patch will add the unit tests for this change14:40
mesterySo, this appears to be in good shape.14:40
armaxmestery: that one is gettign there, I need to do a code review14:40
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mesteryAnd with that, we're done reviewing all Essential and High priority BPs!14:40
mesteryarmax: Thanks!14:41
armaxbut I’ll tail Vivek, in case he’s getting lost in the weeds :)14:41
mesteryI encourage all reviewers to really focus review time on these BPs, especially if your review bandwidth is limited in the coming weeks14:41
mesteryThanks to all the contributors here, this is all outstanding work!14:41
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mesteryAny questions on BPs at this point?14:42
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ajoI would be grateful for some review on the ProcessMonitoring stuff, I need to rebase it on the last l3-agent refactors today...14:42
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ajoI'd love it not to slip over another release :)14:42
ihrachyshkayeah, that one took too long already14:42
salv-orlandoajo: yes, sorry about that.14:42
mesteryajo: Cool, we'll make sure to land that14:42
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mesteryThanks salv-orlando!14:42
mesteryOK, lets move on then.14:43
ajosalv-orlando, no problem, lot of moving grounds with the refactors, that also slow me down doing rebases all the time :)14:43
mestery#topic nova-network to neutron migration14:43
*** openstack changes topic to "nova-network to neutron migration (Meeting topic: networking)"14:43
mesteryanteaya: This is your part of the meeting I believe :)14:43
anteayait is14:43
mesteryI also hope obondarev is here today as well ;)14:43
anteayahello14:43
obondarevyep14:43
anteayawe have a meeting14:43
anteaya#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova-nettoNeutronMigration14:44
anteayaand we met 5 hours ago14:44
anteaya#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/14:44
anteayaand it was productive14:44
mesteryanteaya: Yay, excellent!14:44
anteayathe summary is that obondarev and belmoreira and markmcclain and angus will all be working on the spec14:44
anteayaand we expect a new patchset before the end of thursday new zleand time14:45
mesteryanteaya: Double yay, nice!14:45
anteayaand nova and mark have agreed that we need to stop ceasing work around releases14:45
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mesteryanteaya: I don't follow that, what does that mean?14:46
anteayathis needs to continue to be ap ont of focus is we don't make kilo14:46
anteayathat means that so far we work if we think we can make the realease and then stop working on this effort if we cna't14:46
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armaxanteaya: I wish we could just stop addressing the ‘general’ problem and just get these big players that do need to migrate step up and lead technically themselves14:46
mesteryanteaya: OK, got it14:46
anteayauntil the next realease14:46
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anteayaso mikal suggested we just barral through and focus on getting the work done14:47
anteayaand there was agreement14:47
anteayawe had a face to face on monday14:47
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* mestery thinks anteaya must be at LinuxConfAu14:47
anteayamikal took nots on an ehterapd wil the intention of making it public14:47
anteayaI am14:47
anteayaand that hastn'happened yet14:47
anteayaso hopefully the link will be posted to the mailing list today14:48
anteayaI'll remind mikal14:48
anteayaI think that is it unless there are questions14:48
anteayaarmax: well cern is doing what they think we expect of them14:48
mesterythanks anteaya, please make sure an email with that etherpad comes out, I really want the CERN folks to review that, they are the only people interested in this who I am aware of that have come forward14:49
armaxanteaya: forgive my question, but what is cern doing, exactly?14:49
mesteryWithout their input, we'll be missing hte mark for the target user14:49
anteayamestery: yes14:49
anteayawell belmoreira is going to outline their thoughts on testing in teh spec14:49
anteayaso it can make it into the next iteration14:49
anteayaarmax: cern has a developer attending meetings and offering testing resources14:50
anteayaand reviewing the spec, answering questions and asking them too14:50
mesteryThanks anteaya14:50
anteayanp14:50
mesteryLets move on now, there are two items left and only 10 minutes in the meeting.14:50
mestery#topic Compiling a list of Neutron upgrades implementation status and known problems14:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Compiling a list of Neutron upgrades implementation status and known problems (Meeting topic: networking)"14:50
xekhi, first I wanted to ask, what is the status of oslo.versionedobjects adoption in Neutron?14:50
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mesteryxek: Is this your section, did you add this to the agenda?14:51
armaxanteaya: thanks, I am still not convinced this is going to get where we want to be, but ok14:51
xekmestery, yes14:51
anteayaarmax: acknowledged14:51
xekversioned-objects deal with DB schema being at a different version than the code expects and allows for rolling upgrades14:51
ihrachyshkaxek, afaik it was not even discussed at that point14:51
mesteryxek: Cool, thanks. salv-orlando, being our oslo liasion, can you answer xek?14:51
mesteryihrachyshka: thanks :)14:51
xek(with different code bases running at the same time)14:51
salv-orlandomestery: ihrachyshka is the oslo guy now14:51
xek#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/versioned-objects14:51
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salv-orlandoI'm the guy for all the pointless things14:51
xekcurrently, work on versioned-objects adoption is done in Heat14:52
xekhttp://specs.openstack.org/openstack/heat-specs/specs/kilo/versioned-objects14:52
xekthis can be a reference implementation for Neutron14:52
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ihrachyshkaxek, so I have the library in my todo list, but I haven't checked it, yet14:52
mesteryxek: This looks interesting, but at this point, we'd have to do this work in Lxxx14:52
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mesteryxek: Once Heat's work lands, that could be a model for us. ihrachyshka, does that sound reasonable to you?14:53
ihrachyshkayes, a lot of oslo work just to keep up with oslo team inventions in existing libs14:53
ihrachyshkayes, we'll return to that in L14:53
xekI will submit a spec for this and see how it goes, ok?14:53
mesteryxek: That's fine, but please note we won't open up Lxxx specs in neutron until we're near the end of Kilo.14:53
mesteryxek: So the spec may sit dormant with a -2 from someone until then, FYI.14:54
ihrachyshkaxek, there is no subtree for L yet in neutron-specs, but yeah, we can discuss it for now.14:54
xekmestery, ok, thanks for the info14:54
xekI'm also looking for pointers to efforts of implementing live upgrades neutron->neutron (whithout downtime and additional hardware)14:54
mestery#info xek to file spec around oslo.versionedobjects for Neutron for inclusion in Lxxx14:54
sc68calI did push a review req to specs to create a "drafts" in the tree, that could be useful for future looking specs14:54
sc68calhttps://review.openstack.org/14554514:54
mesterysc68cal: Thanks for the reminder there!14:54
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ajosc68cal++14:55
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mesteryOK thanks xek! We'll talk more about live upgrade in Vancouver for Lxxx I suspect.14:56
mestery#topic Open Discussion14:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)"14:56
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mestery4 minutes left now14:56
xeklets move on14:56
mesterySomeone wanted to discuss python 3.3 for the client?14:56
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Steapoh14:56
Steapyes14:56
Steaphaypo: ^14:56
mesteryhaypo: This was you?14:56
Steapand I :)14:57
SteapWe got the client working with Pyhon 314:57
mesterySteap: :)14:57
Steapwe'd like to enable the gate now14:57
mesterysalv-orlando: You had comments here?14:57
Steapsee https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145430/14:57
salv-orlandoi think we should do that. I just wanted to announce publicly we were doing it14:57
salv-orlandosort of "speak now or shut up forever"14:57
mesteryWorks for me. Anyone not in favor of this?14:57
mestery#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145430/14:57
mestery#info We plan to enable Python 3 support in the gate for python-neutronclient14:58
mesteryThat was easy :)14:58
Steapyes :)14:58
mesteryThanks Steap and haypo!14:58
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salv-orlandomy -1 became a +114:58
lukasa_work+1 thanks!14:58
mesterysalv-orlando: Cool!14:58
mesteryOK, thanks everyone!14:58
mesteryWe have lots of great work going on, keep it up!14:58
salv-orlandocome on say it say it14:58
salv-orlandoend .... ing14:58
mesteryWe'll see you next week and on IRC and the ML! :)14:59
mestery#endmeeting14:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:59
mesterylol14:59
salv-orlandoyeaaahhh14:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 13 14:59:03 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-01-13-14.02.html14:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-01-13-14.02.txt14:59
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mesterysalv-orlando: :P14:59
salv-orlandoadieuuuu14:59
ajolol :)14:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-01-13-14.02.log.html14:59
lukasa_worko/14:59
mlavallebye14:59
armaxbye14:59
marioso/14:59
ajothank you  :)14:59
ajobye14:59
jlibosvabye14:59
amotokibye14:59
xekbye14:59
obondarevbye14:59
numannuman, bye14:59
kevinbentonbye14:59
vikrambye14:59
carl_baldwinbye14:59
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n0ano#startmeeting gantt15:00
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openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 13 15:00:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gantt'15:00
n0anoanyone here to talk about the scheduler15:00
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alex_xuo/15:00
edleafe\o15:00
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n0anoI was hoping bauzas was around, let's wait just a minute15:02
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alex_xuyea15:02
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edleafejust posted a quick note on #openstack-nova15:02
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n0anoedleafe, beat me too it :-)15:03
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n0anoin that case, let's do things in a slightly different order15:04
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n0ano#topic Topics for mid-cycle meetup15:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Topics for mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:04
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n0anohave people been thinking on this?  Right now my main topic is the split at the start of L15:04
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n0ano(assuming we get everything implmented in Kilo)15:05
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edleafeI've had some talks with jaypipes, and we were hoping to clarify the interface of the scheduler15:05
alex_xun0ano: what need to do for split? we will have any doc describe that, or that will flush out in mid-cycle?15:05
edleafeIOW, what exactly a separated scheduler would look like to anything that wanted to use it15:06
n0anoalex_xu, I would hope any doc would mainly be internal descriptions, the goal is a drop in replacement with minimal impact, maybe some config changes is all15:06
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n0anoedleafe, would be good to talk about that as I would hope the L cycle will be `what we have now', the M cycle is where we can look at making things more palatable for other projects15:07
jaypipeshey guys, sorry for being late15:07
alex_xun0ano: ok15:08
n0anojaypipes, NP, just talking about what we might talk about at the mid-cycle, can you see the history?15:08
edleafen0ano: understood; I just think that that's backwards15:08
edleafeif we define the interface that will be useful to other projects, we will know exactly what we need to clean up15:08
bauzas\o15:09
bauzasoops15:09
bauzasfor some reason, I had no sound15:09
n0anoedleafe, given the goal of minimal impact to Nova on the first split I don't think we want to make many (if any) changes in L interfaces15:09
bauzasso, you're discussing about the split ?15:10
n0anosounds like we have 2 good discussion topics for the split:15:11
n0ano1) specifics of the L split15:11
edleafen0ano: whether you change them now or not is one issue. We should really know where we want to end up, though15:11
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jaypipesn0ano: at the start if L, we need the interfaces to the scheduler that update the scheduler's view of the world to be public and versioned.15:11
n0ano2) what is the longer term intefaces15:11
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n0anojaypipes, I would think that the result of the Kilo cycle to to do just that15:12
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bauzasn0ano: agreed15:12
bauzasn0ano: provided that jaypipes's BP would be merged15:12
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bauzasn0ano: and mine about request_spec15:12
jaypipesn0ano: well, we are currently at an impasse with regards to any agreement on when and how the scheduler's view of resource consumption changes should be done.15:13
n0anobauzas, both specs were approved so of course the code will be merged :-)15:13
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bauzasn0ano: I share your enthusiasm15:13
edleafejaypipes: which makes it a perfect topic for the mid-cycle! :)15:13
jaypipesindeed.15:13
n0anoedleafe, +115:13
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edleafewe're not trying to settle it right now15:13
bauzasdon't we have an approved BP about isolating how the scheduler is getting resources ?15:13
bauzasanyway, let's discuss it during the midcycle, agreed15:14
jaypipesbauzas: not approved, AFAIK15:14
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bauzasjaypipes: which one do you refer ? edleafe's, mine or yours ?15:15
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bauzasanyway, we're nitpicking, let's discuss this during midcycle15:15
jaypipesk15:15
n0anoin that case, switching gears:15:16
n0ano#topic 1)Remove direct nova DB/API access by Scheduler Filters - https://review.opernstack.org/138444/15:16
bauzaswe should get a better view of what's planned and what's mergede15:16
*** openstack changes topic to "1)Remove direct nova DB/API access by Scheduler Filters - https://review.opernstack.org/138444/ (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:16
bauzasI really dislike this commit title but that's life :)15:16
n0anobauzas, I believe you have some issues15:16
bauzasthe description is self sufficient15:16
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bauzasyeah, sorry about being late today15:17
bauzasso15:17
bauzasdoes anyone readed the spec ?15:17
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edleafebauzas: Hey, I changed it in the spec itself... :)15:17
jaypipesI am re-reading it again now.15:17
n0anobauzas, I +1'd the last-1 version, does that count15:18
bauzasyeah I suggest to take 5 mins for reading the proposal and my comment15:18
edleafejaypipes: it follows the direction we discussed15:18
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bauzasso, tl;dr the problem is that the compute manager is claiming, not the scheduler15:19
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bauzasso by the proposal, the resources would be updated when booting the instance15:19
edleafeboot/resize/destroy15:20
bauzaswhich is far different from the existing, where the update is coming by a DB update15:20
bauzasedleafe: indeed, but the race condition is still there15:20
n0anobauzas, yeah, don't we currently have the same race, the compute updates the DB and the scheduler reads the DB, still a race there15:21
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bauzasn0ano: nope, because scheduler reads the DB *after* the DB is updated15:21
bauzasn0ano: here the proposal is to read the DB *before* the DB is updated15:22
edleafebauzas: it could read, make a decision, and the DB could change in between15:22
alex_xubauzas: the comment you said is pretty close the ironic bug we disscused on the ML?  because there are two place to validate resource?15:22
bauzasalex_xu: that's related indeed15:22
jaypipesI'm +1 on edleafe's latest version.15:22
bauzasjaypipes: good to know but that doesn't change my view :)15:22
jaypipesbauzas: I responded to your concern.15:23
alex_xuemm....not involved by this spec, already existed in current code15:23
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bauzasjaypipes: your proposal looks good in theory15:24
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bauzasjaypipes: because it means that we keep track of the pending requests15:25
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bauzasjaypipes: but in practice, HostStateManager is not persisted15:25
jaypipesbauzas: it doesn't need to be.15:25
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n0anojaypipes, maybe you can expand on why it doesn't need to be persisted15:28
alex_xujaypipes: but we can run multiple schedulers?15:28
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bauzasjaypipes: the trick works for aggregates because we regenerate the HostState from the DB15:29
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jaypipesn0ano: because the source of truth for the state of an instance is the compute node itself. if the scheduler goes down, it should re-establish its view of pending instances by querying the compute API.15:29
bauzasjaypipes: but here, as it wouldn't be persisted, we would not have the information about pending requests for a new request15:30
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jaypipesbauzas: why not? we can make a call to the compute API to get pending instances grouped by host.15:30
bauzasjaypipes: there is a huge difference between ComputeNode.get_all() and Instance.get_all() you know15:30
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bauzasjaypipes: oh, so you would need to persist information about pending instances15:30
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jaypipesbauzas: there already is persisted information: it's in the ionstances table in the Nova DB.15:31
bauzasjaypipes: as I said, that wouldn't be performance happy15:31
jaypipesbauzas: just query the compute API to get pending instances for each host on scheduler startup.15:31
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bauzasjaypipes: how do you get that list of instance ids ?15:31
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jaypipesunfortunately, I need to attend another meeting right nwo :(15:32
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jaypipesbauzas: you get that list of instance objects via a call to compute API.15:32
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bauzasok, I think your proposal looks good but the devil is in the details15:32
bauzasit looks good because the logic is quite the same as for the aggregates spec, which I'm fine15:32
bauzasbut again, let's dicuss that later off the meeting15:33
n0anodo we need to continue this on IRC later when jaypipes is available again?15:33
bauzasjaypipes: edleafe: you ok ?15:33
bauzasn0ano: huge +115:33
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edleafeyes15:33
n0anojaypipes, do you know when you'll be available again?15:33
jaypipesn0ano: probably best to do a google hangout, maybe thursday?15:33
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n0anojaypipes, that late, I was hoping this afternoon, but if that's the soonest we can do that15:34
bauzasjaypipes: the spec freeze period ends 2 weeks before K215:34
bauzasergh15:34
jaypipeswe need to put together a more detailed doc IMO on the end scheduler interfaces that we want to expose15:35
bauzas*spec freeze exception period15:35
edleafeToday sucks for me; tomorrow or Thurs is OK15:35
bauzasjaypipes: fine by me (for the interfaces doc)15:35
jaypipesn0ano: I have one meeting after another, from now until 6pm :(15:35
n0anojaypipes, I feel your pain, let's see if we can get a common time tomorrow15:35
jaypipesn0ano: tomorrow, I am afk until noonish EST, afterwards, I'm good to go15:36
edleafen0ano: I'm flexible tomorrow15:36
bauzasthink about EU people \o15:36
alex_xuasia people can join o/?15:36
edleafetimezones are hard15:36
alex_xubut it's fine my time is too hard for your guys15:36
bauzasedleafe: you're PST ?15:37
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alex_xuI can check the comment on the gerrit15:37
edleafebauzas: CST15:37
edleafeTexas15:37
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n0anobummer, it's late afternoon EU right now so an afternoon EST is bad, what about thurs morning EST15:37
bauzasedleafe: ack, -8 from CET15:37
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bauzaseh, -7 even15:37
edleafebauzas: yep15:37
bauzasPST, MST, CST, EST right ?15:38
bauzasfrom west to east ?15:38
edleafeUTC-615:38
edleafebauzas: correct15:38
n0anobauzas, yep (I'm MST)15:38
bauzasedleafe: ok so CET-7 (I'm UTC+1 during winter period)15:38
jaypipesn0ano: I have a Thursday 11-12pm EST, otherwise open15:38
bauzaslemme check when 2 weeks before K2 is15:39
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bauzasbecause that's the fencing gate for merging spec exceptions15:39
n0anohow about this slot on Thurs, 1500 UTC (8AM MST)15:39
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edleafen0ano: works for me15:40
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bauzasn0ano: I have a kid to go take around 1545 but it will just take 10 mins15:40
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bauzasso I can attend 1500UTC with a 10-min off window15:40
n0ano#action n0ano to setup a Google hang out on Thurs, 1/15, 1500 UTC15:41
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bauzashttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule15:41
n0anoso let's all read edleafe spec and be ready to discuss then, we don't have much time before the merge cutoff15:42
bauzas2 weeks before K2 is 22th Jan15:42
bauzasto be clear : 22th Jan is the deadline for merging a spec exception, provided it has been approved before15:42
n0anobauzas, I'm not too concerned, I think the bulk of the spec is fine, we just have to iron out this one issue15:42
bauzassome code could probably be asked for validating the spec15:43
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bauzasn0ano: so the sooner is the better but I'm fine with Thurs15:43
edleafeI can start putting together some code based on this15:43
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edleafebut it will really depend on a lot of the other changes15:44
bauzasedleafe: sounds a good idea15:44
n0anoedleafe, that'd be good, I don't think we're going to make major changes to the spec15:44
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bauzasn0ano: well, that depends on what we agree on the hangout15:44
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n0anobauzas, I'm optimistic :-)15:44
edleafeit's just that it will be affected by all the changes that bauzas and jaypipes have queued up15:44
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jaypipesbauzas: what's the status of the detach-service patch series? ready for final reviews?15:46
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bauzasjaypipes: you can take a look, yup15:47
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bauzasjaypipes: I have some fixes to do for the objectification15:47
jaypipesk, will do this evening (sorry, in meetings all day.. )15:48
bauzasjaypipes: no worries15:48
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bauzasjaypipes: at the 3 first patches in the series are good to be merged15:48
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bauzasjaypipes: which would be a good next step for the bp15:49
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n0anobauzas, do I read that bp right, there are 14 patches to implement it?15:50
bauzasn0ano: yeah, lots of fixes about providing backwards compatibility15:51
n0anowe all need to do `a lot` of reviewing15:51
bauzasn0ano: basically, the new field has been provided, the goal now is to get rid of all the old methods15:51
bauzasand use the objects as a Facade for accessing the new way15:51
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bauzasn0ano: or switch back to the old way if the field is unset15:52
n0anowell, we're approaching the top of the hour so:15:52
n0ano#topic opens15:53
*** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:53
n0anoanything new for today?15:53
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n0anohearing a lot of crickets so I'll thank everyone, hope to see you at the hangout on Thurs and we'll talk again next week15:54
edleafethanks, n0ano!15:54
bauzassee ya15:54
n0ano#endmeeting15:54
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:54
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 13 15:54:53 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:54
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-13-15.00.html15:54
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-13-15.00.txt15:54
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-13-15.00.log.html15:54
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boris-42#startmeeting17:12
openstackboris-42: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'17:12
boris-42ameade: pczesno msdubov_ hi17:12
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boris-42#startmeeting Rally17:12
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 13 17:12:50 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:12
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:12
msdubov_boris-42, hi!17:12
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:12
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'17:12
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boris-42amaretskiy: ping17:14
amaretskiyhi17:14
boris-42paboldin: hi17:14
paboldinhi all17:14
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oanufrievhi17:14
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boris-42okay let's tart17:16
boris-42msdubov_: could you share details about your work on docs17:16
boris-42#topic Improve Rally Docs17:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Improve Rally Docs (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:17
msdubov_boris-42, sure17:17
msdubov_here is the patch https://review.openstack.org/12001817:17
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msdubov_here is the link to the current state of the docs in this patch http://docs-draft.openstack.org/18/120018/29/check/gate-rally-docs/fd04e63//doc/build/html/17:17
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msdubov_Compared to what is now there in ReadTheDocs, the documentation has been greatly restructured and somewhat simplified17:18
msdubov_I've accomplished the 4-steps tutorial through different use cases in Rally17:18
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msdubov_("Rally Step-by-Step")17:18
msdubov_this is going to be expanded furthermore17:18
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msdubov_but by now I think it's time to show this documentation to our presales manager who was interested in it, collect feedback and finally merge this patch17:19
msdubov_and then continue this work in future patches17:19
boris-42msdubov_: I already send to him17:19
msdubov_boris-42, Oh great I missed it17:20
boris-42msdubov_: seems like he didn't have enough tim eto go through it17:20
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boris-42msdubov_: okay seems much better then now17:20
boris-42before*17:20
boris-42lol17:20
msdubov_Also I've made a patch to global requirements to support the ReadTheDocs theme in Gates17:20
msdubov_boris-42, Hope so!17:20
msdubov_eom17:20
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boris-42msdubov_: I think section about plugisn17:21
boris-42msdubov_: is a bit not completed17:22
msdubov_boris-42, You want more samples?17:22
boris-42msdubov_:  http://docs-draft.openstack.org/18/120018/29/check/gate-rally-docs/fd04e63//doc/build/html/plugins.html17:22
boris-42msdubov_: there is only sample for scenario, no sla, no context, ...17:22
msdubov_boris-42, Yep, but the mechanism seems to be the same for scenario/sla/context17:23
msdubov_boris-42, Anyway I can add more examples17:23
boris-42msdubov_: it is simlir when you know whole Rally17:23
msdubov_boris-42, agree17:23
boris-42msdubov_: and context are different from scenarios17:24
boris-42msdubov_: absolutelly differnet17:24
boris-42msdubov_: and I think we can add here subsections http://docs-draft.openstack.org/18/120018/29/check/gate-rally-docs/fd04e63//doc/build/html/gates.html17:24
boris-42msdubov_: cause it's hard to read/understand17:24
boris-42msdubov_: okay let's move to other topics)17:24
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boris-42#topic VMTask reactoring17:25
*** openstack changes topic to "VMTask reactoring (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:25
boris-42amaretskiy: ping17:25
amaretskiyhi17:25
boris-42amaretskiy: hi there17:25
boris-42amaretskiy: what is the status of patch?17:25
amaretskiyI've done improvements for scenario boot-runcommand-delete17:25
amaretskiythe patch is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144337/17:25
amaretskiynow we can run this scenario for neutron-based cluster17:26
amaretskiyand most of networking setup is automated17:26
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amaretskiyso we can just use network context17:27
boris-42amaretskiy: could you prove it ?17:27
amaretskiyand left all networking parameters default17:27
boris-42amaretskiy: and add VMTask here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144337/9/rally-jobs/rally-neutron.yaml17:27
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amaretskiyyes, reasonable17:27
amaretskiythat will be done17:28
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amaretskiyeom17:28
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boris-42amaretskiy: ok I will take a look at that patch tomorrow17:29
amaretskiyok17:29
boris-42msdubov_: andreykurilin1 paboldin ^ please do the same=)17:30
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paboldinack17:30
boris-42#topic Benchmarking in VMs17:30
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boris-42paboldin: do you have something to say about it?)17:30
paboldinnot much yet17:30
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paboldintrying to decide what to use to launch hundreds of benchmarks on hundreds of VMs17:31
paboldinwriting a proposal17:31
paboldinthat is it17:31
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boris-42paboldin: oslo.messaging?17:32
boris-42paboldin: or tinny REST web server17:32
paboldinboris-42: will take a look, thanks17:32
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boris-42paboldin: I even don't now what is better)17:33
paboldinboris-42: this will require us to connect to each VM17:33
paboldinthis is bad17:33
boris-42paboldin: nope17:33
paboldini would prefer a bus17:33
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boris-42paboldin: HTTP request will scale well17:33
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paboldinwe will see when the proposal is ready17:34
boris-42paboldin: ok great17:34
boris-42paboldin: could you share link of proposal?)17:34
paboldinboris-42: when it will be at least in a first draft version17:34
boris-42paboldin: ok good17:35
boris-42#topic MOS is pain17:35
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boris-42amaretskiy: around?17:36
amaretskiyyes17:36
boris-42So I talk with FUEL guys17:36
boris-42they said next17:36
boris-421) they blocked access from fuel master node17:36
boris-42because of security issue17:36
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boris-422) they blocked ineternal and managment url becuase of security17:37
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boris-423) They add back door in HA proxy (that enpoint with tricky PORT)17:37
boris-42that is managment url (but in public network)17:37
boris-42So.......17:38
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boris-42they add that backdoor because they have to have abiility to run OSTF that requires admin17:38
boris-42amaretskiy: ^ so seems something very bad17:38
amaretskiyagreed17:38
boris-42amaretskiy: I think we should ask to allow access to managment url17:39
boris-42from FUEL master node17:39
amaretskiywhy? we do not run rally on master node17:39
amaretskiythat is a rare case17:39
amaretskiynobody (except me) does that17:39
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amaretskiyand it is very hard to install rally on this node17:40
boris-42amaretskiy: nope17:40
boris-42amaretskiy: now it is simple17:40
amaretskiydocker ?17:40
boris-42amaretskiy: cause we have docker17:40
boris-42amaretskiy: yep17:40
boris-42amaretskiy: and it is installed on fuel master node17:40
amaretskiyokay17:41
boris-42amaretskiy: so it will be quit easy for end users17:41
amaretskiybut whay should not we just add a keystone oparameter "endpoint" into deployment config?17:41
amaretskiythis parameter is commin17:41
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amaretskiy*common17:41
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boris-42amaretskiy: it is common for or clients17:44
boris-42amaretskiy: in current implementation we are passing it only to keystone17:44
amaretskiythat is just yet another keystone client parameter17:44
boris-42amaretskiy: nope17:44
boris-42amaretskiy: we should change managment url for all clients17:44
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boris-42amaretskiy: so for example live migrate benchmark (that requires admin) won't work17:45
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boris-42amaretskiy: and every clients has own endpoint17:45
boris-42amaretskiy: so some kind of hell17:46
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boris-42ok17:49
boris-42so I will talk to FUEL guys17:49
boris-42and let's seee17:49
boris-42#topic Fuel Task Templates17:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Fuel Task Templates (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:49
boris-42#topic Rally Task Templates17:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Rally Task Templates (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:49
boris-42So it is the part of work that I am working on17:49
boris-42It allows us to create parametrized jinja2 tempaltes17:49
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boris-42that generates tasks17:49
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boris-42wich allows to make independed from OpenStack clouds size and configratuion tasks17:50
boris-42https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137716/17:50
boris-42patch is here ^ and I hope to merge it soon17:50
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boris-42anybody has anything to say?)17:51
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amaretskiyi think we can specify template context data from stdin17:52
amaretskiyexample:  echo args.json | rally task start ...17:52
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amaretskiys/echo/cat/17:52
boris-42hm17:52
boris-42rally task start ... --task-args-file17:52
boris-42?)17:52
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amaretskiyok, let it be so17:53
amaretskiy--task-args-file is ok17:53
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boris-42amaretskiy: it's just already implemented17:54
boris-42amaretskiy: I mean in future we can extend it even to stdin17:54
amaretskiyok17:54
boris-42amaretskiy: but for now I think it's better to merge patch, cause it's already too big=)17:55
boris-42Okay we need to finish meeting soon=)17:55
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boris-42so see you guys17:55
boris-42#endmeeting17:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 13 17:55:28 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-13-17.12.html17:55
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-13-17.12.txt17:55
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-13-17.12.log.html17:55
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morganfainbergdolphm, ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samueldmq, htruta, amolock17:58
morganfainberghttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting17:58
dolphmo/17:58
joesavako/17:58
lbragstadmorganfainberg: hey17:59
samueldmqo/17:59
nonameenternameo/17:59
bknudsonlol17:59
ajayaao/17:59
morganfainbergThat list seems to get longer each week.17:59
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dstaneko/17:59
rodrigodso/18:00
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amakarovo/18:00
raildoo/18:00
morganfainbergIt's that time of the week again, let's get it started (same bat time, same bat channel)18:00
morganfainberg#startmeeting Keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 13 18:00:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Keystone)"18:00
jamielennoxo/18:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
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morganfainbergGood morning! Quick housekeeping.18:00
nonameenternameo/18:00
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morganfainbergNext week no irc meeting, mid cycle instead.18:01
bretonhello18:01
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rodrigodsmidcycle should have a hangout... just saying..18:01
morganfainbergI will try and setup a hangout (Google) for one of the days to get folks not in San Antonio involved18:01
rodrigodsyay18:01
raildo\o/18:01
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morganfainbergBut no guarantees it'll work.18:01
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gyee\o18:01
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jamielennoxmorganfainberg: would be appreciated18:02
topolo/18:02
morganfainbergIf you haven't voted on the board of directors and bylaws changes. Go do it.18:02
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gyeemorganfainberg, turns out monday is MLK holiday18:02
henrynashhi18:02
morganfainbergIt is really really important to get votes.18:02
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stevemaro/18:02
morganfainberggyee: working holiday for us! :P18:02
dolphmyeah, we really need the voter turnout18:03
dolphmgyee: oops18:03
amakarovI'm a little lost: where is this voting?18:03
gyeehahaha18:03
topolgyee I've already booked my flight18:03
dolphmamakarov: if you're a foundation member, you'll have an email with a personalized voter link18:03
morganfainbergSo please vote. If you are a foundation member and didn't get a ballot (and have been since July 20 2014) make sure you contact secretary@openstack.org for your ballot link18:03
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dolphmemail subject is "OpenStack Foundation - 2015 Individual Director Election"18:04
morganfainbergamakarov: if you joined the foundation on or before July 20, 201418:04
morganfainbergYou should have gotten that email.18:04
amakarovmorganfainberg, dolphm ok, I'm too young ))18:04
topolI missed it.  Are you recommending particular folks?18:04
dolphmbut it's not just a director election, there are proposed changes to the bylaws18:04
jorge_munozo/18:04
morganfainbergTopol no, just go vote.18:04
topolany recommended bylaw changes?18:04
joesavaktopol - lol18:05
topolmorganfainberg OK18:05
ayoungOh, is it that time already?18:05
gyeetopol, yes, yes, and yes18:05
morganfainbergRead them, I won't recommend yes or no on any director or bylaw changes.18:05
morganfainbergBig tent, lawyer count, and % of community for bylaw changes are he resolutions18:05
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morganfainberg#info vote on board of directors and bylaw changes if you are eligible.18:06
morganfainberg#info Spec proposal deadline for keystone: feb 518:07
morganfainbergGet your specs proposed and approved.18:07
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morganfainbergLast bit of house keeping.18:07
morganfainbergI'd like to propose a code-feature proposal freeze 2-weeks prior to k318:07
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morganfainbergMeaning no feature code after that mark. Will help limit last minute breaking things before feature freeze18:08
morganfainbergAny complaints or concerns?18:08
topolsounds very good18:08
samueldmq++18:08
nonameenternamethat sounds good to me18:08
raildosounds good to me18:09
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amakarovamakarov, ++18:09
henrynashso it is a proposal freeze or an actual code freeze18:09
joesavakso that's a code feature freeze and not a code feature proposal freeze, right?18:09
henrynashha!18:09
morganfainberghenrynash: code freeze for new features.18:09
lbragstadso we will officially enter bug mode two weeks before k318:09
henrynashok18:09
morganfainberglbragstad: correct.18:09
lbragstadjoesavak: code freeze18:09
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lbragstads/code/feature/18:09
joesavak+118:09
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morganfainbergIt gives us a window to fix anything outstanding on features but limits rebase hell18:09
henrynash+118:09
gyeeI think Jenkins freeze happens 4 weeks before :)18:10
ayoungI thought we were going to be more forgiving than that18:10
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ayoungwe used to say "Milestone 2"18:10
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ayoungand with the spec adoption, I thought we were going with Milestone 3\18:10
morganfainbergayoung: we are now saying 2-weeks prior to hard feature freeze18:10
morganfainbergJust so we can limt rebase hell and last minute "omg we broke everything"18:10
ayoungmorganfainberg, does that mean that the review must be submitted, or that the review must be accepted and merged?18:11
ayoungcuz we have so little time and so much process18:11
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morganfainbergMust be gating or ready to gate. This is milestone 318:11
morganfainbergNot milestone 218:11
ayoungI understand18:11
ayoungHeh,  you can't get anything through Gate during M3 week anyway18:12
morganfainbergBasically get your code ready to merge by 2-weeks prior to feature freeze. If we get most stuff done there, we will have less headaches to fight the gate at 1day before m318:12
morganfainbergExactly.18:12
morganfainbergWe can revisit next week on Monday.18:13
morganfainbergOn to topics.18:13
morganfainberg#topic OS-INHERIT18:13
*** openstack changes topic to "OS-INHERIT (Meeting topic: Keystone)"18:13
morganfainberghenrynash: o:18:13
morganfainbergO/ even18:13
henrynashactuall I think samuel was rasing this one...18:13
morganfainbergAck, battery is about to die, running to my desk.18:13
morganfainbergOk samueldmq o/18:14
morganfainberg:)18:14
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samueldmqhi :)18:14
samueldmqso we have one proposal regarding role inheritance18:14
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samueldmqcurrently we have OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: ['projects']18:14
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samueldmqthis is in the spec, but we have implemented as  OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: 'projects' (without list)18:15
samueldmqbut instead of just fixing the spec, I was thinking about removing inherited_to: ['projects'], and keep just inherited=True/False18:15
henrynash(that’s what gets returned by list_role_assignments to indicated that an assigment is inherited)18:15
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samueldmqhenrynash, ++18:16
samueldmqor passed to list_role_assignments to apply filtering18:16
henrynashso a little background for everyone18:16
bknudsonI think we need to go with changing the spec to match the code... openstack rules.18:16
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gyeewhy's there a list to begin with? we have something other than projects in mind?18:17
samueldmqbknudson, yes, that would be the first step, to get consistency asap18:17
henrynashif you remember when I first proposed inheritance from domain->projects we had a long debate about how “inheritanc” should work18:17
ayoungmake domain is-a project and that issue goes away18:17
gyeeif we don't have anything else, true/false make sense18:17
bknudsonI don't think we can go changing the spec to inherited=True/False since that's against the stability rules.18:18
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morganfainbergbknudson: ++18:18
bknudsonplus I think it's a poor design choice to use a boolean where a more descriptive string would explain things.18:18
samueldmqbknudson, we don't even support role inheritance on the clients I think (will recheck)18:18
raildogyee: with domain is a project, we need to inehrited to - subdomains18:18
ayoungso we update the spec to OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: 'projects'  right?18:18
amakarovdoes it give any actual benefits?18:19
henrynashat least one person was concerned that we might need more than just “inherit down the tree”..ans we might, in the future, want “directed inheritance”…i.e. OS-INHERIT: inherited_to : [“project_id”: 123, “project_id”:564]18:19
ayoungI like that18:19
rodrigodssamueldmq, we don't18:19
samueldmqrodrigods, thx18:19
rodrigodsthe change to add support to inheritance in keystoneclient is under review18:19
gyeehenrynash, that's more flexible18:19
raildogyee: so I think that we need to create a  OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: 'domains' or something like that18:19
ayoungraildo, nah18:19
ayoungdomain is-a project means we don't need it18:19
samueldmqso since we don't even support role inheritance on the clients, and it's still an extension, I don't see a big concern on changing the API18:19
rodrigodsayoung, ++18:19
ayounglets drive that one home instead18:19
gyeedomain -> special project18:20
morganfainbergayoung, i agree, if we push domains == projects, this issue goes away18:20
ayoungmorganfainberg, and we need to get that working for HMT anyway18:20
morganfainbergayoung, yes18:20
ayoungraildo, and rodrigods are going to take a hack at it from my WIP18:20
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henrynashI personally think that anying other than “inheritance down the tree” plus teh ability of a node to block inheritance is about as much as any adminstrator will be able to cope with18:21
ayounghenrynash, I like the  inherited_to : [“project_id”: 123, “project_id”:564]18:21
raildoayoung:but if I inherited a role in all subdomains, i broke the reseller, because a user in a parent domain can manager users in a subdomain18:21
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samueldmqhenrynash, ++18:21
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ayoungAh...18:21
samueldmqraildo, that should be solved by what henrynash just proposed18:21
samueldmqraildo, a flag to block inheritance18:22
ayoung OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: 'not projects'18:22
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ayounger18:22
henrynashayoung: so while directed inheritance sounds kind of cool…if you really had  complex usage model of that……would an admin have any clue what was going on?18:22
ayoung OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: 'not domains'18:22
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ayounghenrynash, depends on the quality of the admin, as always18:23
bknudsoninherited_to would have to be a dict.18:23
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amakarovayoung, may it be just omitted?18:23
ayoungbknudson, we should be able to handle both a single value and a dict18:23
morganfainbergan alternative would be to shelve OS-INHERIT and make inheritance a first-class part of the assignment api18:23
ayoungamakarov, no,18:23
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morganfainbergOS-INHERIT would be maintained as is for legacy/compat18:23
gyeethings never change, people always fight over inheritance :)18:23
ayoungamakarov, they need to say "inherited to projects that are not domains"18:23
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samueldmq#link the spec as it is today http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/api/v3/identity-api-v3-os-inherit-ext.html#list-effective-role-assignments18:24
henrynashthis feels like a more complex topic given everyone’s views…sounds like we might want to have asession on this next week18:24
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rodrigodssamueldmq, API spec18:24
amakarovayoung, reminds 'redelegation_count' :)18:24
morganfainbergamakarov, yes.18:24
ayoungamakarov, comparable, but different18:24
gyeehenrynash, ++18:24
dolphmhenrynash: +1 to all your comments here18:24
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morganfainbergif we do have directed sessions like that i'll work to make sure we have a hangout for those18:26
morganfainbergas well.18:26
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samueldmq++18:26
morganfainbergesp since iirc samueldmq isn't there18:26
ayoungthe short, though, is that we should update the spec to match the code at a minimum, right?18:26
morganfainbergayoung, or ^^ my suggestion there [more work though]18:26
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morganfainbergayoung, but the spec will need to match the code if we keep it in OS-INHERIT18:26
ayoungmorganfainberg, I think anythinig beyond what the code does today should be future work18:26
henrynashayoung: at a minimum, yes…18:26
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morganfainbergayoung, correct18:27
morganfainbergayoung, minimum spec needs to match code 1st18:27
gyeeif we have to update the spec because of the code, the process is somewhat broken isn't it?18:27
ayounghaving them out of sync is problematic.  Since we have released code, lets agree to first update the spec, second solve the problem for the duration18:27
morganfainberggyee, some of this documentation was out of sync18:27
samueldmqmorganfainberg, so I'll submit a patch to fix the api spec18:27
ayoungsamueldmq, ++18:27
morganfainberggyee, this is a case where we keep contract with functionality18:27
samueldmqmorganfainberg, and then we decide further next week18:27
henrynashgyee: well, only because we shipped that code 2 releases ago!18:28
gyeeoh18:28
morganfainberggyee, and ^^ what henrynash just said18:28
* gyee stfu now18:28
morganfainberggyee, this is API spec not new-code spec18:28
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dolphmgyee: i wouldn't expect an unimplemented spec to be "final" until it has shipped as stable/*18:28
morganfainberg#action samueldmq to update API spec to match actual code.18:28
morganfainbergdolphm, ++18:28
dolphmunimplemented api* spec18:28
ayoungI know that Chadwick's new Postdoc is somewhere in Brazil, but I assume it is too much to hope he is anywhere near the rest of you guys, is it?18:28
rodrigodsyes18:29
morganfainbergayoung, lets discuss that in -keystone post meeting, we have a full agenda18:29
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morganfainbergmoving on18:29
morganfainberg#topic Multifactor Authentication18:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Multifactor Authentication (Meeting topic: Keystone)"18:29
gyeedolphm, in that case, would it make send to write the code first, then change the spec18:29
morganfainbergnonameentername, o/18:29
gyees/send/sense/18:29
nonameenternameo/18:29
morganfainberggyee, that is the point of the experimental -> stable workflow18:30
morganfainberggyee, for new stuff.18:30
morganfainberganyway, nonameentername floor is yours18:30
ayoungmorganfainberg, so with MFA, it seems like he first should be submitting a patch for OTP, no?18:30
nonameenternameI wanted to get some eyes and feed back on my spec.  It had a lot of possitive reviews but then died down18:30
morganfainberg#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130376/18:30
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morganfainbergThis is defintely on the list of specs to hit while at the mid-cycle, but i think most of the major concerns have been addrressed.18:31
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bknudsonhow does an auth plugin require another plugin (e.g., the otp plugin requires password plugin)?18:32
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lbragstadnonameentername: I know marekd had a bunch of questions before the holidays, but you addressed those?18:32
bknudsonalso, should the otp plugin require password? what if I wanted to use something better?18:32
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bknudsonoh, it's going to do both.18:32
gyeewhere do we store the seed/secret?18:32
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gyeecred api?18:32
nonameenternamelbragstad: he wanted me to add api information, but I don't know if that belongs in the spec or if it should live in the identity-api project18:32
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morganfainbergbknudson, right now the architecture doesnt support requiring a plugin from another plugin, but a user can request multiple plugins18:33
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bknudsonit would be interesting to see barbican integration with credentials.18:33
morganfainberggyee, i am pushing for barbican in general18:33
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morganfainbergas an option18:33
nonameenternamebknudson: yes, that is part of the spec18:33
jamielennoxbknudson: the v3 plugins are designed so that there can be multiple 'methods' just nothing uses it at the moment18:34
morganfainbergbknudson, +∞18:34
bknudsonI thought we already had support for multi-factor authentication in the original auth plugin design.18:34
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morganfainbergbknudson, sortof.18:34
jamielennoxbknudson: you could write a plugin that essentially does multiple methods for you18:34
gyeebknudson, this is the plugin itself18:34
gyeenot the framework18:34
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nonameenternamegyee ++18:34
gyeeMFA can be implementd in so many ways18:35
morganfainbergbknudson, nonameentername wants to enforce that in cases MFA is used [sometimes for all authentications], which today isn't there. no plugin for it.18:35
bknudsonif this is just proposing another plugin then that seems to be different than what the spec says.18:35
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morganfainbergbknudson, the spec is mostly implying a new auth-plugin18:35
gyeepassword = pin + one time hash code18:36
morganfainbergbknudson, but also proposing the framework change to allow a demand of multiple plugins for auth18:36
morganfainbergbknudson, vs only on user request18:36
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morganfainbergbknudson, so you can say "user X must use MFA" vs "did user X use MFA"18:36
bknudsongyee: is that how pam implements otp?18:36
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morganfainbergbknudson, depends on the OTP.18:36
nonameenternamemorganfainberg: ++18:36
ayoungso the question is whether the rule should be "no token without MFA"  enforced by auth pipeline  or "this API requires MFA" enforced by policy/18:36
gyeebknudson, that's how google authenticator works afaik18:36
ayoungthe first is easier18:36
gyeeI had a prototype on that awhile back18:37
morganfainbergayoung, this is allowing for the first case18:37
bknudsonok, I just wanted to understand it... I don't have a problem with the proposal.18:37
morganfainbergayoung, and providiung the plugin.18:37
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morganfainbergayoung, the latter case is in the token-constraints type spec18:37
morganfainbergayoung, or part of policy language+middleware to expose18:38
morganfainbergbknudson, ack18:38
jamielennoxso this is going to cause all sorts of problems with reauthentication18:38
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gyeereason I didn't propose the google authenticator change was that I was under the impression we are not going to do anything with IdP till we separate the identity piece from Keystone first18:38
jamielennoxit's not useful for any sort of automated service, are we mostly just considering horizon here?18:38
ayoungauth pipeline right now is "or"  and this calls for "and"18:38
bknudsonjamielennox: good point... token only lasts 30 mins so I'll need to look at my keyfob again.18:38
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morganfainbergjamielennox, this is why it needs to be per-user. service users may not need/get it18:39
morganfainbergjamielennox, MFA that is18:39
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morganfainbergjamielennox OR the service consumption would need to know how to do OTP for re-auth.18:39
bknudsonso then we also need a mechanism to store per user which auth is required.18:39
jamielennoxmorganfainberg: right - didn't expect them to, i'm just wondering how the flow will work18:39
gyeemorganfainberg, right, MFA is generally bad for non-interactive users18:39
jamielennoxit also means that our clients need to start actually caching authetnication18:39
morganfainbergjamielennox, please comment on the spec, that is where this should be defined.18:39
morganfainbergjamielennox, ++18:39
morganfainberglets get the comments in order so we can get this landed monday/cleaned up ready on mondy18:40
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* topol just saw morganfainberg do +∞ and thought that is really cool18:40
morganfainbergi think the major hurdles are solved in the proposal, now it's the "here are all the things that could be affected, lets not forget it"18:40
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morganfainbergas in the proposal is good. but we have associated functionality that would be impacted and can't be forgotten18:41
bknudsonuse federation instead.18:41
dstanekso does this mean that we are adding a per user auth column/table?18:41
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ayoungno18:42
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ayoungit should be on assignment, not on the user side18:42
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gyeedstanek, you don't need to, you can have policy around auth methods18:42
ayoungspecifically "in order to get a token for this role in this project, use needs to authentiate iwht F1, F2"18:42
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dstanekayoung: that makes sense - so on a per assignment basis18:43
morganfainbergdstanek, ayoung, i think that makes a lot of sense18:43
gyeeyou can get a token with any method, but you may not be able to access certain apis with that method18:44
dstaneki need to go back and read the spec again - it's been a while18:44
morganfainberglets comment on the spec.18:44
bknudsonwith mod_shib can you put in a constraint on how the user authenticated?18:44
morganfainbergwe need to move on, still a lot to cover18:44
morganfainbergbknudson, i think that falls into how the IDP auths18:44
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nonameenternamethanks18:44
morganfainbergbknudson, idp would enforce MFA or not18:44
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morganfainberg#topic Domain Config18:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Domain Config (Meeting topic: Keystone)"18:44
gyeewe need to cleanly separate out authn and authz18:44
ayoungyou could almost make it a property of the role18:44
morganfainberg#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123238/18:44
morganfainberghenrynash, o/18:45
henrynashok, so reminder on domain configs - this is to enable clouds admins to on-board a customer into a domain who has their own ldap settings...letting them doing it all via REST, rather than having to set up those hokey domain-specifc config files that I dreamt up a while back18:45
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henrynashintention is that we will deprecate the domain-specific config files, but still support for 2 release18:45
morganfainberghenrynash, i support this change!18:45
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henrynashMost people seem OK on the spec, but wanted to see what the API might look like18:45
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henrynashso have prepared the simplest version: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123238/10/api/v3/identity-api-v3.rst18:45
henrynashbut wanted to see what peopel thought about that vs alternatives18:45
ayounghenrynash, you just inherited the hokyness from my LDAP config.18:45
henrynashplaying hokey was always good fun18:46
ayoungthat's what its all about.18:46
bknudsonI'm just glad we dropped XML support.18:46
henrynashha!18:46
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henrynashso the simpel proposal just puts the config as an attrivute in teh domain entity18:46
henrynashfeels a bit weird, but simple18:46
gyeebknudson, not quite, SAML2 assertion18:47
ayoungso...domain config in SQL by itself makes sense.  The question is does maintaining LDAP as a mapping separate from the way we do federation make sense?18:47
henrynashalternative would be to perhaps suppost somthing a bit liek nova’s server details, i.e18:47
dolphmhenrynash: so, you're expecting ldap passwords and stuff to be in the API?18:47
henrynashGET /domains/{domain_id}/config18:47
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henrynashdolphm: nice point18:48
gyeemay want to do another survey to see how many LDAP out there are password protected even for searches18:48
henrynashdolphm: would have to be the encrypted version18:48
morganfainberggyee, surveys are sent.18:48
morganfainberggyee to all three MLs18:48
amakarovhenrynash, or template of some sort18:49
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gyeepassword protected LDAP searches specifically?18:49
morganfainberggyee, lets see how those retuern before asking about passwords18:49
gyeek18:49
henrynashldap passowrds are ONLY reequired if anonymous searching is not supported18:49
morganfainbergdolphm, this can also be brokered by credential/barbican18:49
amakarovhenrynash, with 'the stuff' to be inserted locally18:49
henrynashotehrwise, no passwords needs18:49
gyeeI personally have not came across anything like that18:49
ayounggyee, we have to assume that there is a high lilkyhood that the user to do the LDAP query needs to be authenticated somehow18:49
morganfainberggyee, AD often does require bind to search18:49
gyeeayoung, unlikely18:49
ayounggyee, its common to require some authentication18:50
ayoungeven if it is just a service user18:50
morganfainberggyee non-anon bind that is18:50
gyeenot for searches18:50
morganfainbergsomething about SOCKS compliancy.18:50
ayoungit was a requirement we had to implement in FreeIPA18:50
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morganfainberggyee, yes. i've seen it.18:50
bknudsonI assume gyee is talking about large corporate directories... the one I know about doesn't require auth.18:50
morganfainberggyee almost every AD integration we did at metacloud needed a user/pass to bind for searches against AD18:50
dstanekyes, happens all the time due to regulations18:51
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gyeeSOX compliance?18:51
morganfainbergin anycase henrynash, i think we need credential API support or barbican support for this.18:51
morganfainbergSOCKS! toe socks comp... sorry i'll stop18:52
henrynashso I had assumed we would use the same encyption technique taht we do in the config files.18:52
gyeeSUCK compliance :)18:52
gyeeSUCKS18:52
morganfainberghenrynash, i think we should discuss this at the midcycle as well specifically on the security and password concerns18:52
henrynashmorganfainberg: meaning you store the ldap creds and then fill it in “on teh backend”18:52
bknudsonconfig files aren't encrypted18:52
henrynashbknudson: but I think the password is, no?18:52
morganfainberghenrynash, not really.18:53
dstanekhenrynash: when pulling out the config from SQL would you whitelist what can be return or blacklist passwords, keys, etc?18:53
gyeeobfuscated18:53
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amakarovgyee, not enough18:53
morganfainbergdstanek, this is why i think it needs to go in credential or barbican - something we can be more watchful of18:53
dstanekmorganfainberg: ++18:53
henrynashdstanek: we certainly could (in teh same way we do with the user record)18:54
* morganfainberg comments on needing to "fix" credential18:54
ayoungI think wee punt on this henrynash .  We kindof want to go a different way18:54
bknudsonsince we can stick anything in credential or policy backend, put the config file in there.18:54
ayoungAnd it avoids all these issues18:54
henrynashayoung: on which bit?18:54
gyeeamakarov, did oslo.config have the secured option?18:54
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morganfainbergbknudson, that might be the easiest solution18:54
ayoungif we say "non trivial LDAP is done using SSSD and Federation"18:54
morganfainbergayoung, that is a separate discussion18:54
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morganfainbergayoung, but related18:54
lbragstadgyee: what's your definition of secured?18:55
ayoungmorganfainberg, it is an argument against his proposal18:55
morganfainbergthis is something we'll need to discuss at the midcycle.18:55
bknudsonoslo.config has a secret=True option but that just means it's not printed out when debug the config.18:55
ayoungand I don't want to just say "no" without explaining why18:55
morganfainbergwe have 5 mins, so lets table18:55
morganfainbergand discuss next week18:55
amakarovgyee, don't know18:55
ayoungideally, LDAP would be just another form of Federation18:55
henrynashok, sounds like yamd (yet another midcylce discussion)18:55
morganfainbergkrykowski, o/18:55
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krykowski hi :)18:56
morganfainberg#topic Keystone upgrades implementation status and known problems18:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Keystone upgrades implementation status and known problems (Meeting topic: Keystone)"18:56
gyeelbragstad, I thought oslo.config have an secured property for a config option, no?18:56
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krykowskiI wanted to ask if Keystone is going to adopt oslo.versionedobjects? any status on that?18:56
morganfainbergthis is short i know, but wanted to get you a couple minutes18:56
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morganfainbergkrykowski, not in kilo18:56
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morganfainbergkrykowski, but i'd like to see it on the table and evaluated for L.18:56
krykowskiare there are plans for it to land? a spec for example?18:56
morganfainbergkrykowski, no spec yet. there hasn't been any real discussion on it18:57
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krykowskigot it, you probably seen that there is already a spec in Heat to adopt this, to be ready to handle such updates18:57
krykowski#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/heat-specs/specs/kilo/versioned-objects18:57
morganfainbergi'd be happy to see some discussion occur in #openstack-keystone on it (please come and bug us!) so it can be made a priority/or determine why it wont work for L-cycle18:57
morganfainbergin keystone18:57
gyeeayoung, if we use SSSD, we have to make CMS a hell lot easier18:58
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gyeeunless SSSD can dynamically reload the config files18:58
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morganfainberghenrynash, we can also continue discussion on it in -keystone today/this week18:58
ayounggyee, heh...exactly what I was wondering myself.18:58
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morganfainbergkrykowski, so i think the option is there, but it wont happen in Kilo, if we have the discussion now we can prioritize for L18:59
morganfainbergkrykowski, is the answer to your question18:59
henrynashmorganfainberg: yep, good…tomorrow..for me18:59
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morganfainbergok last thing to be said18:59
dolphmkrykowski: are you asking if keystone would approve use of oslo.versionedobjects, or asking for a volunteer to implement it?18:59
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krykowskiI'd like to submit some spec for it for further discussion (event if occur in L-release)18:59
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morganfainberg++19:00
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morganfainbergkrykowski, we would need someone to help with the impl. on it / drive it19:00
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morganfainberganyway we're out of time.19:00
morganfainbergLast note:19:00
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morganfainbergplease do bug triage! ( lbragstad has been doing it, some more eyes would help)19:00
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morganfainbergfurther talk on all topics in -keystone channel19:00
morganfainberg#endmeeting19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 13 19:00:58 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-13-18.00.html19:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-13-18.00.txt19:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-13-18.00.log.html19:01
fungiinfra team meeting commence19:01
pleia2o/19:01
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fungijeblair: are you around enough to chair, or want someone else to take care of it this week?19:01
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jeblairfungi: i am here19:01
jeblairi suspect we may be a little light though19:01
yolandao/19:01
fungiindeed (i know i am)19:01
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jeblairyeesh19:01
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zaroo/19:01
jeblair#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 13 19:02:14 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
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jeblair#link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting19:02
ianwo/19:02
jeblair#link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-06-19.02.html19:02
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SergeyLukjanovo/19:02
krtayloro/19:02
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jeblairseveral of us are otherwise occupied at LCA, so this may be an abbreviated meeting19:03
jeblair#topic Actions from last meeting19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
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jeblairasselin update module split staging change and merge asap19:03
asselinhi,19:03
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fungithat's done and merged i believe?19:03
fungii think i approved it anyway19:03
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asselinYes, fungi merged it last week19:04
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asselinI added a sprint here (looking for link)19:04
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jeblairgood!  so we should be in a good place for the sprint on jan 2819:04
asselin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Schedule_of_Upcoming_OpenStack_Virtual_Sprints19:04
fungiawesome--thanks asselin!19:05
asselinJust need a time & duration19:05
jeblair24 hours?19:05
asselinShould be good19:05
krtaylorasselin, great! how can we help, are you going to have an example?19:05
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asselinkrtaylor, yes, I have an etherpad to track it19:06
asselin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/puppet-module-split-sprint19:06
jeblairwant to start at 1500 utc?  or earlier if fungi or SergeyLukjanov are up for it?19:06
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SergeyLukjanovjeblair, I think yup19:06
fungicool with me for 1500 or earlier19:06
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asselinI'm in california...need to convert it19:06
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asselinand wondering who else is interested to participate19:07
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DavieyIs there a theme or list yet?19:07
* jesusaurus wants to participate19:07
jeblairDaviey: it's a single-topic sprint to get all our puppet modules split19:07
asselinwe should be set, but I'd like to do a few practice ones to make sure everything is smooth19:07
Davieyjeblair: thanks19:07
asselinI have recheck-watch ready19:08
SergeyLukjanovjeblair, just to ensure - Jan 28 1500 utc?19:08
jeblairSergeyLukjanov: yep19:08
jeblairwould someone line to send an announcement out to -infra and -dev about that?19:08
jeblairlike19:08
SergeyLukjanovI can do it19:08
jeblairSergeyLukjanov: cool, thanks19:08
jeblair#action SergeyLukjanov send announcement about puppet module split to infra and dev19:08
jeblairasselin: will you update the wiki with the time details?19:09
asselinjeblair, will do19:09
krtaylorI also added it to the third-party wg agenda19:09
jeblairkrtaylor: ooh thanks!19:09
asselinSergeyLukjanov, please ask ppl who are interested to put their names in the etherpad19:09
SergeyLukjanovack19:09
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asselinsprint page updated. thanks!19:10
jeblaircool, anything else about this topic?19:10
asselinSergeyLukjanov, actually this link is probably best: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#OpenStack_puppet_module_split19:10
asselinjeblair, nope thanks19:11
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SergeyLukjanovasselin, yeah, it's a good endpoint for folks who're interested in it19:11
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jeblairi think we'll skip swift logs, and we just covered puppet module split...19:12
jeblairanyone here to talk about nodepool dib?19:12
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fungiclarkb: was out on an errand but i have mostly working knowledge of its current state19:12
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts: Nodepool DIB19:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Nodepool DIB (Meeting topic: infra)"19:12
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fungiat this point image builds seem to be working in hpcloud and we're working through options for dealing with cache update concurrency problems19:13
jeblairwhat's cache update concurrency problems in a nutshell?19:13
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fungiwe can build one image at a time fine, but if they launch at the same time they try to update some of the same things in the common cache and then all but one choke on file locks19:13
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/14692519:14
fungiis one proposed workaround19:14
yolandafungi, but images are built based on a queue, right?19:14
jeblairyeah, that was my understanding19:14
fungiyolanda: they're updated in parallel19:14
yolandaso it's sequential build19:14
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fungisequential image creation is something we discussed as an alternative19:14
fungisince they are relatively fast compared to snapshot image builds19:14
jeblairfungi: as i understand it, that's the implementation19:14
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fungihuh, well if that's the intended implementation it's not how it's currently working. three diskimage creation runs start more or less simultaneously and one of them succeeds while the other two fail on file lock errors19:15
jeblairfungi: i mean, this is kind of embarassing, because i reviewed a lot of that code, and i thought, "great, this looks like a swell serial queue system for building images"19:15
jeblairfungi: did we accidentally do a builder per-provider or something like that?19:16
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fungii'll regroup with clarkb when he gets back and see if we can untangle that19:16
fungii mean, it's one of the "solutions" we were talking about implementing for it, so sounds like it has some support ;)19:16
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yolandai've been running that for a while and it just runs one dib process each time, this may be some use case not working fine19:17
jeblairokay.  and yeah, i wasn't anticipating this problem, but i was anticipating that the nodepool server had finite resources and we would not be able to build many images at once19:17
jeblairso that was the basis for wanting to start with serialized19:17
clarkbit may be a separate issue with the cache19:17
jeblairfungi, yolanda, clarkb: thanks for looking into it19:18
fungistale locks?19:18
clarkbpermissions or othe filesystem issues19:18
fungii'll double-check the image update logs to make sure they're running concurrently like we're suspecting19:18
fungibut yeah, maybe we jumped to conclusions there19:18
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jeblair#topic Upgrading Gerrit (zaro)19:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Upgrading Gerrit (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:19
jeblairzaro: how's it going?19:19
zaroit's going alright.19:19
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SergeyLukjanovis it update to 2.9?19:20
zarojust realized that newer versions of gerrit need a bouncy castle jar that's no availble on precies19:20
zaroSergeyLukjanov: yes19:20
zaroso we need to upgrade the gerrit server to trusty19:20
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jeblairi think that's a fine thing to do anyway19:21
fungii can go ahead and work on building a new review-dev running on trusty this afternoon or tomorrow19:21
zaroasked fungi to switch review-dev to a trusty server.  just waiting for that. now19:21
fungizaro: can you handle getting the git repos copied over?19:21
fungithe initial server build _should_ go quickly but it's not self-bootstrapping19:22
zaroalso zuul-dev seems to be out of wack so fungi reset it for me, but wanted to test review-dev (trusty) with zuul-dev, so just waiting for new review-dev before proceeding further.19:22
fungiand having a written log of what we had to copy to the new server for review-dev will help us put together a similar trusty migration plan for production19:22
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zarofungi: sure19:23
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jeblaircool, thanks!19:23
jeblair#topic  Options for procedural -2 (jeblair)19:24
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jeblair#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/procedural_-219:24
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jeblairwe've gotten requests for the ability for cores to indicate that a patch will not (must not) merge for temporary procedural reasons19:24
jeblaireg, feature freeze, or in our own case, "waiting for scheduled maintenance window"19:25
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jeblairi did some brainstorming based on what we currently have available in gerrit19:25
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jeblairand i'm not happy with anything we can do in our current version19:26
jeblairyou can see what i came up with and my reasons on the etherpad19:26
jeblairi tend to think that the best resolution is probably a gerrit plugin, and maybe the WIP plugin is actually all we need19:26
jeblair(or if we want to extend it with another state, that could work too)19:26
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fungiyeah, i agree with everything you've written there. we need a sticky status for a change, so a plugin seems necessary19:27
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fungieverything else has side effects19:27
jeblairso how about this?  mull this over a bit, and see if anyone comes up with any other ideas and maybe next week we decide on something?19:27
zaroi think WIP plugin should do it because i believe it introduces a state.19:27
fungisounds good19:28
jeblairzaro: can you look into the current status of the wip plugin and find out if it is ready for use (in either 2.8 or 2.9?)19:28
zarodefinately only in 2.9+19:28
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jeblairkk.  good thing someone is already working on that.  :)19:28
zarobut can also test it against 2.9 myself.19:28
zarojust to make sure it's in a good state still19:29
jeblair#topic Fedora 21 (ianw 6/1)19:29
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ianwjust a few reviews there to ping on19:29
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ianwi think we can just replace the f20 d-i-b build in nodepool with f21 at this point19:30
ianwa quick one for centos image builds (https://review.openstack.org/145959)19:30
jeblairnothing is using f20?19:30
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ianwnot d-i-b nodes19:30
jeblairgot it.  makes sense.19:30
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ianwalso review to switch the devstack tests to f21; experimental jobs show test is working and all devstack bits merged -> https://review.openstack.org/14676019:31
ianwi'll move any remaining f20 users with the hope of removing f20 nodes and just have f2119:32
ianwthat's all19:32
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ianwalso, in the last minute, sdague approved that one above for f21 devstack jobs :)19:33
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fungicool19:33
ianwoh and just a ping for -> https://review.openstack.org/14682219:33
jeblair#topic Open Discussion19:33
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ianwAdding devstack-plugin-glusterfs project to stackforge19:33
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jeblairah, first devstack-plugin-project19:33
ianwit hasn't been out long, but these guys are really keen to get their devstack plugin glusterfs working19:33
ianwyeah, if anyone didn't see it, i wrote up https://review.openstack.org/146679 about devstack-plugins19:34
fungithere's been some acknowledgement from barry warsaw about the state of our python 3.4 ubuntu bugs, though he's waiting on matthias klose to get back from travelling to address them19:34
fungithanks to dhellmann for pinging barry via e-mail19:34
jeblairfungi: oh good, thanks you and dhellmann!19:36
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fungioh, and i moved paste.openstack.org back to a local database, so keep an eye out for any (old or new) issues with it19:36
jeblairfungi: thanks for that.  and :(19:36
pleia2just a quick zanata update, making progress but ran into some sections that are undocumented setup-wise, so I'm currently working with camunoz of redhat to fill in those gaps19:36
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pleia2I think we're the first team outside of redhat to deploy this on our own, so growing pains :)19:36
fungiand as zaro mentioned, i rebuilt zuul-dev so if you have anything on the old filesystem i haven't deleted the instance yet but will likely do so soon. fair warning19:36
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asselinI'm working on an in-tree 3rd party ci spec. I have lots of +1s for "yes this is a good idea". I'd like some more opinions on the best way to structure it and get there. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139745/3/specs/thirdpartyci.rst19:38
jeblairpleia2: thanks!19:38
jeblairfungi: ack.  nothing here19:38
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jeblairasselin: +1 good idea! :)  it'll probably be a little bit before i can give it the attention i need to19:39
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asselinok19:39
fungioh, and krotscheck brought up a great point with using docs-draft for storyboard-webclient changes with storyboard-dev on https with a self-signed cert. ajax means cross-domain javascript protections will magically break without manual browser-side preparation19:40
asselinfor anyone else interested or experience with puppet and/or system-config project, take a look and let me know. thanks!19:41
fungibut then we realized that docs-draft is serving the ui via http, so decided that it should be perfectly safe to do http for the api on storyboard-dev19:41
fungiso that's the current plan there19:41
krotscheckfungi: Speaking of which, do you want to do that or should i?19:42
fungikrotscheck: if you want to have a go at it, great. if not, i'll probably get to it but not quickly19:42
krotscheckfungi: wfm19:43
krotscheckI’ll put it on the list19:43
fungithanks!19:43
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jeblairthanks everyone!19:44
jeblair#endmeeting19:44
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:44
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 13 19:44:14 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:44
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-13-19.02.html19:44
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-13-19.02.txt19:44
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-13-19.02.log.html19:44
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mikalHello19:58
dhellmanno/19:58
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devanandao/19:59
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ttxo/20:00
ttxAnyone here for the TC meeting ?20:00
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jeblairo/20:00
russellbo/20:00
vishyo/20:00
vishymy internet connection is weak20:00
vishyso i may drop out20:00
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annegentle_hey20:00
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dhellmanno/20:00
annegentle_and I hafta leave a little early20:00
ttxjgriffith, mikal, mordred, devananda, markmcclain, jaypipes, sdague: around ?20:00
jeblairmine too (hotel)20:00
devananda\o20:00
annegentle_but my internet is amazing20:00
ttx"The Inetrenet is weak in this one"20:00
jaypipeso/20:01
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jgriffitho/20:01
sdagueo/20:01
mikalHeya20:01
ttxsounds like quorum20:01
ttxeasier to reach than for a bylaws change20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 13 20:01:44 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxOur agenda for today:20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
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ttxFirst, a number of changes about the project structure reform20:02
ttx#topic Template for tags definition20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Template for tags definition (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/14573420:02
ttxThis one is the first step, defining a base template to use to define future tags20:02
ttxIn this new patchset I included the "category" concept that multiple people suggested.20:02
ttxI also separated (as requested) proposing the tag definition from applying the tag to existing projects, to facilitate adoption of proposed tags20:03
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ttxSo in the tag definition you only list examples of projects that would likely get the tag applied, rather than proposing the full governance change20:03
ttxComments / discussion on that one ?20:03
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mikalSeems that review is quite new?20:03
ttxI guess we can refine the template as we go, doesn't have to be perfect the first time20:03
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ttxmikal: proposed Jan 820:04
mikalI'll take a look at it later today20:04
mikalttx: sure, so last week sometime20:04
jaypipes+1 from me on it.20:04
jeblairi think the 2 step process is good.  what's the example use of categories?20:04
mikalttx: not angry, just noting I haven't looked at it yet20:04
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ttxmikal: I suspect LCA makes you a busy man20:04
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mikalttx: its true, I am in fact in a keynote right now20:04
ttxjeblair: typically release:coordinated, release:compatible etc20:04
jeblairi am not, so i really hope they don't call my name20:05
mikaljeblair: heh20:05
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mikaljeblair: if they do you'll never live it down20:05
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ttxLet's move on to the second part20:05
sdaguettx: so a lot of tags are going to end up with reference materials, have we thought about ways to express that?20:05
jeblairttx: is there something about the category structure that optimizes it?20:05
sdaguedocs:api-reference-partial:<some url>20:06
jeblairttx: like, do you still have to define foo:bar and foo:qux as separate tags, each with a tc review, etc?20:06
ttxjeblair: I didn't want to over-engineer it before the tags start coming20:06
annegentle_my thinking for docs, though, is that if we cant' automate the tagging, it's not worthwhile20:06
jeblairttx: or is it purely just a suggestion for how to name them?20:06
annegentle_it's just another truth test I won't be able to keep up with20:06
ttxjeblair: so far it's a name. But we could share some process within the same category20:06
jeblairttx: yeah, not suggesting that, just trying to determine how much they have been engineered. ok sounds good.20:06
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ttxannegentle_: automating is fine if you can manage it20:07
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annegentle_ttx: I'm saying if the tags aren't accurate what good are they20:07
dhellmannannegentle_: you could also delegate that to the projects, who will be motivated to keep their tags up to date20:07
annegentle_ttx: and it's too difficult to autmoate some of that20:07
annegentle_dhellmann: yeah that makes sense20:07
annegentle_not trying to over engineer, believe me :)20:07
ttxannegentle_: no you're right... not sure we can avoid some staleness in data (much like the list of repos sometimes lags reality)20:08
annegentle_thinking docs especially will have a tough time marking completeness20:08
ttxsdague: not sure what you mean by 'reference materials'20:08
annegentle_but driver coverage, api call coverage, sure20:08
mikalOh interesting20:09
mikalDo we put sunsets on tags?20:09
mikalSo they expire when they become stale?20:09
mikalOr do we have to manually clean them up when they're no longer true?20:09
sdaguettx: well something like api docs is going to have a url where those api docs exist, which is important first order info for someone evaluating the project20:09
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ttxmikal: by default I would say clean up when false20:09
mikalttx: a once per release audit thing?20:10
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devanandaI'm struggling to see how a "partial" or "complete" tag makes sense beyond the point in time in which it is tested20:10
ttxsdague: not sure I would pack that attribute in the tag name though20:10
jeblairsdague: though that should also be standardized; eg docs.o.o/something/project20:10
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annegentle_sdague: good litmus, but right now, projects that aren't blessed don't get to use openstack.org domains20:10
ttxsdague: I see your point -- allowing the tag to have a value basically20:10
annegentle_sdague: so is it "good enough" to have docs offsite20:10
annegentle_sdague: or even preferred20:10
ttxmikal: depends on tag I'd say, but yes, a regular audit20:11
devanandattx: once a "complete" tag is put on something, who audits it?20:11
devanandawho determines that it is stale and should "fall back" to partial?20:11
mikalttx: ok20:11
ttxdevananda: shoudl be part of the tag definition, in the process section20:11
sdagueannegentle_: it might be. For something like upgrade readiness I'd really want to be able to put a url in there for reference so people have the footnotes of the evaluation20:11
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devanandathe projects themselves will not have an incentive to keep these status-based tags up to date20:12
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russellbsdague: seems like we could have metadata with tags expressed as child elements in yaml20:12
sdagueif the point of this is to provide assessment material to ops, the footnotes are going to be one of the most interesting parts20:12
russellbas applicable20:12
sdaguerussellb: sure20:12
ttxdevananda: for example, imagine a 'security-supported' tag that says that the VMT is issuing advisories for your project20:12
russellbdefined as a part of the tag proposal20:12
ttxthat tag requires you to provide a security liaison20:12
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dhellmannsdague, russellb : yeah, I'd like to have a release version associated with the tags to make building the tables easier, too20:13
ttxIf the project has a dead liaison, I'd expect the VMt to remove the tag20:13
sdaguerussellb: yeh, I could definitely go that way as well, that would make it easy to automatically parse20:13
ttx(if nobody steps up)20:13
devanandattx: ok - that works. the tag doesn't say "is secure" but rather "is supported by security team".20:13
ttxright20:13
russellbdead liason sounds morbid, heh20:13
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devanandattx: my concern is for tags that indicate a quality, such as "well documented" or "partially documented"20:13
annegentle_devananda: me too.20:13
ttxdevananda: I'd rather have tags describe objectove quality20:14
ttx"partial" sounds a bit.. subjective20:14
jaypipesrussellb, sdague: you mean like this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126581/2/openstack-projects.yaml20:14
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devanandattx: if the tag is "doc-syupporeted" -- great. that's measurable and clear. it could mean the doc team is working with doc writers from the project team, and docs are on docs.oo20:14
dhellmanndevananda: yeah, I don't think we would approve those sorts of tags at all20:14
annegentle_ttx: with docs you just can't say20:14
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devanandadhellmann: ok. maybe i misread an earlier comment about partial/complete tags20:14
ttxannegentle_: you could have a "docs:anne-likes-it"20:14
annegentle_ttx: riiiiiight.20:15
annegentle_I hate all your docs! /ragequit20:15
annegentle_:)20:15
dhellmanndevananda: or maybe I missed that; either way, I wouldn't want "doneness" included in most of the tags20:15
russellbjaypipes: sure, maybe, something like that anyway :)20:15
devanandadhellmann: cool20:15
sdaguejaypipes: yeh, possibly. Though honestly I think reference subtree is probably appropriate.20:15
ttxI'd say that's a bridge we'll cross as more tags are proposed. We should definitely be careful with subjective tags20:16
sdaguealso... it honestly feels like this kind of needs to be temporal20:16
jaypipessdague: sorry, not following you... what is a "reference subtree"?20:16
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sdaguejaypipes: what russellb proposed20:16
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jaypipessdague: you mean like this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126581/2/project-schema.json20:16
russellbi didn't have anything written down20:16
sdaguefor instance "upgrade:manual" "upgrade:offline" "upgrade:online" with references to back up those decisions20:17
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devanandattx: perhaps some guidelines in the template that we should avoid completeness-based and subjectively-applied tags20:17
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russellbjust agreeing that 1) the application of a tag could have associated metadata, 2) we can easily capture that in yaml in a tree (and not in the name)20:17
ttxdevananda: sounds like a good suggestion -- please add comment and I'll roll it in20:17
devanandattx: and stick to representational and objectively measurable things20:17
sdaguerussellb: yeh, honestly, we can extend over time20:17
devanandaack20:17
sdagueso the temporal question20:17
* markmcclain arrives late20:17
ttxlet's move on to the practical example20:18
ttx#topic Definition of the initial 'integrated-release' tag20:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Definition of the initial 'integrated-release' tag (Meeting topic: tc)"20:18
ttxThat one was split in two (defining and applying):20:18
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/14573520:18
sdagueit seems like from an operator point of view, the state of things in icehouse vs. the state of things in kilo is a real think20:18
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/14681820:18
sdagues/think/thing/20:18
sdaguenot just integration status20:18
sdaguebut for *all of it*20:18
* ttx thanks sean for writing that blogpost about splitting commits20:18
ttxLike Jay mentioned, I think the 'integrated-release' tag should have no category since it's the absolute tag that covers so many different things today20:19
jaypipesttx: link to that blog? :)20:19
jaypipesor sdague ...20:19
ttx#link https://dague.net/2014/07/24/splitting-up-git-commits/20:19
jaypipesdanke20:19
ttxApart from that, it's pretty straightforward since it's a frozen tag20:19
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ttxsdague: can't we have that information from git history ?20:20
sdaguettx: that assumes that tags are applied completely synchronisly to whatever functionality is out there20:21
ttx(and from git tags at each cycle)20:21
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dhellmannit would be a lot easier to get if it was just included in the yaml20:21
sdagueand that we don't come up with a new tag that we want to apply to currently supported versions of openstack in the field20:21
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ttxsdague: I see your point20:21
annegentle_I think that there's value in knowing which release things originally went together, but that's not the point is it?20:21
sdaguedhellmann: honestly, I think it's a top level construct, it's in the filesystem20:21
dhellmannsdague: or there -- not the git history was my point20:22
devanandathere is likely to be some lag time in applying tags anyway20:22
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devanandait is, after all, a separate process from the changes which the tags refer to20:22
ttxsdague: any suggestion on how we could represent that ?20:22
devanandaso don't we need a means to represent "this tag applies to the state of $thing at $point in time"20:22
sdaguettx: honestly, I'd do it in the filesystem20:23
sdaguejuno/projects.yaml20:23
annegentle_sdague: that would take care of it20:23
ttxsdague: per cycle ? So we would mandate some (limited) adherence to dev cycles for all projects20:24
jeblairi think that's conflating this with the release cycle, and i don't think we should do that20:24
devanandajeblair: ++20:24
sdagueok, well that's my best idea :)20:24
ttxyes, same point than jeblair20:24
annegentle_oh yeah.20:24
annegentle_hm20:24
devanandatag-applies-at-SHA:20:24
annegentle_sigh20:24
sdaguedevananda: that's completely useless from an ops perspective20:24
dhellmannyeah, a subproperty under the tag would let us be more flexible about what time marker we use (dates, releases, whatever)20:25
jeblairi'm not certain this needs to be quite so comprehensive20:25
ttxOK, we'll have to brainstorm how we can express tags in two dimensions20:25
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ttx(and if)20:25
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jeblairi mean, just adding notes like "foo achieved online upgrades starting with the lemming release" may convey the needed information20:25
ttxjeblair: ++20:26
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sdaguemaybe, how would that be consumed?20:26
devanandasdague: date seems similarly not helpful, then20:26
vishyprojects could be required to make release tags20:26
jeblairsdague: by humans reading the notes in jaypipes' tag display/navigation app?20:26
sdaguean operator comes to OpenStack capabilities site and navigates to where to get the view20:26
vishy* git tags20:26
devanandajeblair: that isn't machine parseable. and what about projects which dont follow the release cycle?20:27
ttxI speent some cycles seeing if I could easily save the -since info from that YAML but couldn't come with something simple and elegant20:27
vishyusing whatever version number they want20:27
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jeblairdevananda: "notes: 'foo achieved online upgrades starting with the lemming release'"20:27
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vishyso we could use the 2014.1 tag for example20:27
jgriffithtags seems promising20:27
vishyand swift could use 2.520:27
vishyor whatever20:27
annegentle_tags for tags. sweet.20:27
jeblairvishy: that sounds good20:27
sdaguevishy: yeh, release tags are good20:27
jgriffithannegentle_: lol20:28
sdagueit should be an artifact that actually escaped20:28
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devanandavishy: +120:28
jeblairttx: also, you can put "integrated-since" back in the new format.  ;)20:28
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vishyalthough branch name might be better20:28
ttxeh20:28
vishyif these need to move20:29
sdagueso, honestly, I also expect that with the preponderance of values coming in, we realistically probably want to split up projects.yaml into on per project20:29
ttxsdague: reduce conflicts ?20:29
vishyi suppose if they are “since XXX” they don’t need to move20:29
sdaguevishy: I actually think branches are bad for this20:29
ttxok we need to move on... let's continue the discussion on the review20:30
sdaguettx: yeh, and size of this file20:30
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ttxsdague: I think that can be a subsequent change20:30
sdaguettx: agreed20:30
ttx#topic Move from program-based structure to project-based (including new projects requirements)20:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Move from program-based structure to project-based (including new projects requirements) (Meeting topic: tc)"20:30
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/14574020:30
ttxSo... this one is obviously more open-ended. There are two sides in it:20:30
ttx1/ switch wording from "programs" (with their expectation of exclusivity) to a team-oriented "projects" concept20:30
ttx2/ define base objective requirements for new projects -- in effect, what you must meet to be considered "an OpenStack project"20:31
ttxOn the first one there were comments on the wording -- basically should we call "the Nova project" what the Nova team works on20:31
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ttxOn the second one the comments were mostly about details (should we recommend Apache licensing, should we require logged IRC channels, and how to best express the Keystone interoperability requirement20:31
ttxNot sure everyone got their chance to review those in context yet though.20:31
dhellmanndo we need to ditch the word "program" or is it enough to redefine it?20:31
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ttxFrom my previous discussions it appeared there was lack of convergence on those, and that lack is not really showing in comments yet.20:32
ttxdhellmann: I think we need to ditch it20:32
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ttxdhellmann: nobody ever got what it meant -- and now it conlicts with "trademark license programs"20:32
dhellmannI just thought keeping it would let us eliminate the issue with overloading the term "project"20:32
dhellmannah, ok20:32
ttxthe problem is program as a theme aspect -- Deployment is a program20:33
ttxhas*20:33
annegentle_yeah I think it's tough to explain programs v projects (and now v trademark program)20:33
ttxTripleO is not a program, it's a project20:33
jeblairwe'll just have to say 'the openstack project' when we mean that now.  which, honestly, i've had to do for a while anyway.20:33
ttxI think everyone says "the Nova project" -- nobody says "the Nova program"20:34
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annegentle_ayup20:34
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ttxso let's just use what people already use20:34
morganfainbergttx, ++20:34
ttxagree there is /some/ collision with "the OpenStack project"20:34
mikalWe do say "Compute Program", but we don't know what it means20:34
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ttxmikal: heh20:34
mikalSo "Nova Project" makes more sense to me to be honest20:34
sdaguemikal: ++20:35
markmcclain++20:35
mikalI do want better words for "OpenStack projects" though20:35
mikalCause I don't like using project at two levels20:35
mikalPerhaps "OpenStack Ecosystem"20:35
ttxEcosystem / Projects / Code repositories20:35
ttxthat would be the 3 levels20:36
mikalThat works for me20:36
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devanandamikal: ++20:36
mikalPrograms made it hard to explain IMHO20:36
annegentle_that reflects reality20:36
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ttxbtw, tags apply to repositories20:36
annegentle_is it docs project then?20:36
annegentle_infra project?20:36
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ttxannegentle_: yes?20:36
annegentle_I think so (docs project)20:36
annegentle_just making sure20:36
ttxrelease cycle management project might need some rebranding20:37
ttxbecause that sounds weird :)20:37
jeblairso, the tc governs the ecosystem?20:37
mikalttx: How about "Operation Kermit Arms"?20:37
ttxthe ecosystem of OpenStack projects yes20:37
ttxmikal: lol20:37
annegentle_one other question coming in is, does a stackforge repo get tagged?20:37
jeblairsounds a little bit of a reach to me.20:37
ttxannegentle_: no20:37
dhellmannjeblair: yeah, I think ecosystem is generally understood to include things we don't control20:38
ttxbut then I expect some stackforge project to apply to become openstack projects and be accepted20:38
devanandaannegentle_: but they can ask to move to openstack/ more easily now20:38
ttxI invite you all to continue that discussion on the changes themselves, and we'll continue that discussion next week -- we have a couple more items to cover today20:38
annegentle_what if no PTL wants it?20:38
annegentle_(asking for a friend)20:39
devanandattx: how does ecosystem/project/repository describe divergent solutions to the same problem?20:39
ttxannegentle_: they would have their own PTL20:39
annegentle_got it20:39
ttxthey don't need to be adoped20:39
ttx+t20:39
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annegentle_sorry have to step afk for a few but will catch up20:39
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ttxdevananda: multiple projects can share overlapping scopes ?20:39
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devanandattx: yes20:40
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ttxok, moving on -- please comment on those changes20:40
ttx#topic Tally votes on log guidelines openstack-spec20:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Tally votes on log guidelines openstack-spec (Meeting topic: tc)"20:40
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132552/20:40
ttxThe TC is supposed to tally the votes from PTLs and the crowd on specs in openstack-specs, and I think that time has come for the log guidelines one20:40
ttxIt's been discussed at last week's cross-project meeting20:40
ttxSome people said there was room for improvement in the future, but nobody opposed this version of the spec as a first step20:41
devanandawow, most votes I think I've ever seen on a patch. awesome20:41
ttxIt's the first one we do so I'm not sure how to proceed -- we can do it same style as TC votes I guess20:41
ttxor have one of us just tally the vote and Workflow+1 it20:42
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ttxsuggestions?20:42
mikalOh poo20:42
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mikalI just accidentally +W'ed that logs change20:42
vishyi like tally and workflow+120:42
sdaguehonestly, I think doing it like normal repo, no -2 votes means it's able to be approved by anyone with +220:42
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dhellmannI'd like to use the normal TC voting procedurs20:42
dhellmannmikal: heh20:42
ttxmikal: nice!20:42
mikalHow do I un +2?20:42
mikal+W I mean20:42
dhellmannsdague: I don't think 2 people should make decisions for the entire project. That's the point of bringing it under TC voting.20:42
* ttx turns his +1 to +220:42
jeblairmikal: vote again20:42
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ttxwell it merged20:43
jeblair++ normal tc voting procedures20:43
ttxso it's a bit late20:43
mikaljeblair: sorry, merged too fast20:43
mikalSorry guys20:43
ttxI knew we couldn't trust mikal with such powerz20:43
sdaguejeblair: so if we want that we should remove +A from everyone but ttx20:43
sdagueI thought we specifically stated this was normal specs rules when we got started though?20:43
ttxyes20:43
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ttxsdague: we did say that20:44
dhellmannthat's not what I remember20:44
ttxthat any TC member could tally the votes20:44
ttxwhich is why we all have APRV rights20:44
dhellmannok, but 2 votes of +2 shouldn't be enough for this one20:44
ttxIt actually has 6 +2s20:44
dhellmannright, I meant this repo20:45
devanandain either case, it has 6 +2's from TC and enough +1's from representatives of different projects that I feel comfortable with it20:45
dhellmannsorry, not being clear20:45
ttxdhellmann: oic20:45
jeblairi think i may have an outstanding action item to do something about the permissions here20:45
dhellmannyeah, I'm completely happy with this particular spec20:45
sdaguedhellmann: so I think the important part is no -2 after some amount of clear time20:45
jeblairhttp://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-10-28-20.03.html20:45
ttxI'm fine with limiting W+1 to TC chair and tally the vote using TC members +220:45
sdaguewhen it's clearly had time to breath20:45
jeblairi think that got assigned to me and then *summit*.  sorry.20:46
ttxif you think that will avoid accidental W+120:46
dhellmannsdague: maybe that's good enough20:46
ttxlet's fix it before the next one needs to be approved20:46
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mikalI think using the TC voting rules makes sense to be honest20:46
mikalBecause this repo isn't something that's a core focus for a lot of people20:46
mikalSo getting prompted in a meeting to look by ttx is useful20:47
ttxjeblair: did you have something different in mind ?20:47
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sdaguefwiw - http://paste.openstack.org/show/157307/20:48
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jeblairi'm reading the meeting log20:48
ttxmaybe we can move that to the list or a future meeting, still a couple items to cover20:48
ttx#topic Removal Plans for keystoneclient.middleware.auth_token20:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Removal Plans for keystoneclient.middleware.auth_token (Meeting topic: tc)"20:48
sdaguejeblair: yeh, that's the relevant snipet I think20:48
sdagueat least the right time box20:48
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054059.html20:48
morganfainbergo/20:49
ttxmorganfainberg posted this to the -dev ML, requesting the TC members opinion on how to solve that backward compatibility dilemma20:49
ttx#action ttx to put openstack-specs approval rules back on agenda in a future meeting20:49
morganfainbergthis is not a common issue with client libs. most don't have middleware like keystoneclient does.20:49
sdaguemorganfainberg: it can be generalized to any interface use though20:50
morganfainbergsdague, ++20:50
dhellmannyeah, this came up in a similar way with oslo libs20:50
sdagueso I don't think that keystoneclient is really exceptional here20:50
morganfainbergsdague, we're just at a point where we are ready to drop support in favor or something else.20:50
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dhellmannwe talked about capping the requirements in stable branches, but ran into implementation issues and then I got busy on other things20:50
ttxsdague: just another incarnation of the 'cap on stable' need ?20:50
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sdaguettx I think so - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054156.html was my best stab and putting down my thoughts20:51
ttxyes, that was very helpful20:51
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morganfainbergi figured sdague's repsonse was probably the clearest direction to take / focus20:51
ttxdhellmann: the question is more -- are those issues solvable. But that's not really a topic for this meeting20:51
sdagueso this remains one of those holes in doing stable compat testing correctly, instead of in our odd adhoc way20:52
sdagueand needs some champions20:52
dhellmannttx: yeah, every issue was a result of a test we were running, so we could decide to change them20:52
ttxfeels like we need to put a number of people in a room and lock it until stable capping is done. And I would probably be in that room20:52
ttxbut yes, orthogonal discussion20:53
morganfainbergdepending on the room size and number of people that project could get done faster or slower :P20:53
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ttxmorgabra: do you agree that stable capping would solve the issue ?20:53
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ttxmorganfainberg: ^20:53
morganfainbergyes, capping should solve the issue20:53
ttxmultiple morga<TAB<20:53
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ttxmorganfainberg: ok, we probably have a way forward then20:53
morganfainbergttx at least you used more than mor<tab> and get mordred instead of morganfainberg20:53
vishyI have to head to another meeting. I want to add something to the meeting next week discussing oslo. I’m concerned that there aren’t enough experts for some of the really important shared components like oslo.db and oslo.messaging. Wondering if there is some way we can help.20:54
vishyo/20:54
ttx#action ttx to add oslo to next meeting20:54
dhellmannvishy: find companies willing to devote resources to it20:54
ttxok, rushing through the last points on the agenda then20:54
ttx#topic Other governance changes20:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Other governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)"20:54
ttx* oslo.policy promotion (https://review.openstack.org/142813)20:54
ttxThis one has dhellmann's +1, will approve tomorrow morning unless someone opposes it20:54
ttx* Add debtcollector library for oslo project/program (https://review.openstack.org/146224)20:55
ttxSame here20:55
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ttxAny comment on those two ?20:55
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russellblgtm20:55
ttx#topic Open discussion20:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:56
ttxI'd like to start the L naming poll before the end of the month20:56
ttxAs some of you know, the marketing folks were a bit alarmed at the idea of fighting easy anti-OpenStack jokes if we picked the Lemming name20:56
ttxNow that they explained it to me, I can only agree with them that it would be a gift to all the haters20:56
russellbagreed20:56
ttxThe trademark checks came back OK for Love, London, Liberty and Lizard, so I propose we run the poll with those four options20:56
* dhellmann predicts London, in keeping with our "not the one you think" naming record20:57
sdagueheh20:57
ttxI would be fine with that20:57
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russellbi wouldn't hate any of them, so works for me20:57
ttxLove and Liberty are a bit too cheesy to my taste20:57
ttxor maybe it should be named Charlie and mess people up20:57
* morganfainberg agrees with dhellmann 20:58
ttxAnything else, anyone ?20:58
sdagueI'm good with that, though I thought there were some first nation names that were in the list as well which might be neat20:58
devanandaLondon is the least bad, but I'm meh on all of those20:58
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sarobi put "libre" out there20:58
ttxsdague: was there ?20:58
* jgriffith likes Lizard :)20:58
jeblairi like lemming20:59
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saroblibre = free20:59
jgriffith:)20:59
russellbsarob: oh is that what that means?  :-p20:59
sarobugh20:59
sarobbetter than lizard lemming21:00
* devananda wanders off to get coffee befoer the next meeting. 21:00
sarob;)21:00
ttxsarob: there is no location named like that in Britsh Columbia though21:00
ttxanyway end of meeting21:00
ttx#endmeeting21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:00
morganfainbergdevananda, in like 1 minute?21:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 13 21:00:20 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-13-20.01.html21:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-13-20.01.txt21:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-13-20.01.log.html21:00
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ttxcourtesy PTL ping: dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, eglynn, nikhil_k, thingee, asalkeld, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov, mikal: around ?21:03
asalkeldo/21:03
thingeeo/21:03
david-lyleo/21:03
eglynn_o/21:03
morganfainbergo/21:03
dhellmanno/21:03
jungleboyjo/21:03
SergeyLukjanovo/21:03
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notmynamehere (sort of)21:03
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bknudsonlol (not laughing but both arms up)21:03
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ttx#startmeeting crossproject21:05
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 13 21:05:22 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:05
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:05
ttxOur agenda for today:21:05
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:05
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'crossproject'21:05
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting21:05
ttxShould be a short one21:05
ttx#topic CLI Sorting Argument Guidelines21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "CLI Sorting Argument Guidelines (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:05
morganfainbergyay short meetings21:05
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145544/21:05
ttxThis is a new openstack-spec to standardize CLI sorting arguments across projects21:05
jungleboyjmorganfainberg: +221:05
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jungleboyjttx +2 from me.21:06
bknudsonthis project has problems with consistency in general.21:06
bknudsonthe most consistent thing to do here would be to have every project be different21:06
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annegentle_bknudson: noooooo.....21:07
ttxAffects Cinder, Glance, Ironic and Neutron apparently, but also future projects that would make use of a sort parameter there21:07
jungleboyjbknudson: -2 for synciality. ;-)21:07
ttxNot sure if Steven Kaufer is on IRC21:07
ttxBut then that doesn't prevent us from discussing it here21:07
jokke_o/21:07
jungleboyj(sp) synicality21:07
thingeesounds fine to me. we already approved the spec for cinder, but of course, curious to see what other projects think21:07
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ttxthingee: ideally we would have alignment from affected projects21:08
ttxand then that would be a guideline for future such projects21:09
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annegentle_ttx: so what was the way TC members are supposed to vote in cross-project specs? +1?21:09
bknudsonone way to get alignment is to put the code in a library.21:09
ttxannegentle_: yes21:09
annegentle_ttx: k thanks21:09
ttxsame as anyone else21:09
* devananda is back21:09
annegentle_bknudson: I think this type of spec can then inform the openstack CLI of the best practice21:09
annegentle_bknudson: so with dtroyer on board I think we can look for that sort of future21:10
annegentle_bknudson: unless I misunderstand your point21:10
ttxbknudson: not sure being in a library enforces alignment :)21:10
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ttxone can always ignore the lib. I'd prefer wide PTl approval on the openstack-spec, like for all openstack-specs21:10
ttxmestery, nikhil_k: around ?21:11
ttxif not, please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145544/ when you get a chance21:11
ttxOther comments on that spec ?21:11
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ttxI guess not...21:12
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morganfainbergfrom a keystone perspective i don't think we have much of anything to say.21:12
asalkeldlooks reasonable21:12
morganfainbergbecause we're relying on openstack client at this point21:12
bknudsonwe've pretty much deprecated keystone cli.21:12
ttxplease cast your vote and i'll put it on the TC agenda for fainl tallying of the votes in a future meeting21:13
ttxfinal*21:13
morganfainbergour CLI is mostly deprecated / frozen and wont see support for v3/much future development21:13
devanandalooks reasonable to me, though I need to see what changes are needed in our current CLI/API21:13
jungleboyjttx +221:13
thingeebknudson: is openstack client using this format for sort/dir?21:13
ttxdevananda: cool21:13
jungleboyjthingee: Assume you will put your vote out there?21:13
sdaguethingee: I believe currently it's just nova, because the conversation evolved out of novaclient patches21:14
morganfainbergthingee, ttx, so i think the osc folks should be involved in this as well, specifically21:14
ttxdtroyer: ^21:14
thingeemorganfainberg: +1 that's where I was going to go with that question :)21:14
sdaguemorganfainberg: dtroyer has already commented on the review21:14
sdaguewith a +121:14
ttxdtroyer: you might want to chime in on the review as well21:14
morganfainbergsdague, ah cool.21:14
thingeesdague: ah true21:14
dtroyerthingee, morganfainberg: we are…and OSc will be very close to this if not exactly there21:14
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ttxhah, he did already21:15
ttxOK, last comments before we move on ?21:15
morganfainbergthen i'm a +1 on the spec :) will vote accordingly w/ comment21:15
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ttx#topic Proposed Vancouver Design Summit format21:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Proposed Vancouver Design Summit format (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:15
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054122.html21:15
ttxI posted proposed changes to the Design Summit format last week, if you have questions let me know21:16
ttxSo far the reception seems to have been good -- so unless someone objects I'll have the events team work on a room layout that would allow this format21:16
bknudsonI was wondering about cross-project sessions -- is that a fishbowl or a workroom?21:16
thingeettx: good job. Glad that were addressing the issue of ops feeling like second class.21:16
annegentle_ttx: have you done a walkthrough with nova/neutron and cross-project?21:16
devanandattx: +1 overall21:16
ttxbknudson: fishbowl, although technically we could also have smaller workgroups there...21:16
morganfainbergttx, i am a +1 on that - didn't reply to the list though.21:17
bknudsonok, thanks.21:17
* nikhil_k joins in21:17
ttxannegentle_: walkthrough?21:17
ttxOne challenge we will probably have to solve is the scheduling.21:17
annegentle_ttx: an imagining if you will21:17
annegentle_ttx: yes, for scheduling and where the space runs out21:17
jungleboyjProposal looked good as long as the Work Group sessions are in individual rooms, not shared.21:17
ttxannegentle_: I have a proposed room layout. We shouold have an awesome space in Vancouver21:17
ttxAbout scheduling, not sure we'll be able to rely on pre-allocated slots and small tweaks (like we use to do) to avoid conflicts this time21:18
jokke_ttx: by quick look your proposal is great ... by the Paris experience, that's exactly what's needed!21:18
devanandattx: +100 on clearly splitting fishbowl and workinggroup sessions21:18
ttxWe might have to tag sessions with the necessary audience and then use a constraint solver to produce the final schedule for us21:18
devanandattx: what will the timing / overlap be with the main conference?21:18
annegentle_ttx: yeah I think the split is right but then the constraints haven't been revealed yet21:18
ttxMain conf runs Mon-Thu, we run Tue-Fri21:18
annegentle_ttx: so it helps a bit to see constraints is all21:18
ttxfriday will be all workinggroup21:19
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morganfainbergttx, friday being working group will be great21:19
morganfainbergit worked very well at the last summit21:19
ttxand hopefully food will be worse so nobody will hang around just to eat.21:19
morganfainberghahah21:19
ttxwhat do I say... Food can only be worse.21:19
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jungleboyjmorganfainberg: +221:19
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devanandattx: ok. so ops overlap tue-thu concerns me a bit. what do you think?21:19
eglynn__should help with the lunch queues21:19
asalkeldttx the changes seems ok to me21:19
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devanandattx: not concerns-me in a way that we should change anything - i think this is a good structure21:20
ttxdevananda: you mean ops summit running Tue-Fri adds more conflicts ?21:20
morganfainbergsilly question, did we determine [a little off topic] if there was a 3rd level of participant that let people duck out after the main conf? i think we said a reason a lot of people hung around was because they felt like they needed to for the last day since it was expo or full-access21:21
ttxThere is the option os running some ops sessions on Monday... the trick being, it would still feel like a different event outside the design sumit then21:21
morganfainbergand so they paid for the full access and stuck around + wifi was only in the design summit side the last day(s)21:21
morganfainberg^^ that question might be something for a different meeting21:21
morganfainberg(mine that is)21:21
bknudsonis it all in the convention centre?21:21
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devanandattx: it may split operators time more, without giving them a clear "here is the ops day" indication21:22
ttxmorganfainberg: not sure... I think Paris was special because people just stayed over the weekend21:22
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ttxso they were around on Friday when usually they fly back21:22
morganfainbergttx, fair enough that too. cause well Paris.21:22
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ttxbknudson: yes21:22
ttxdevananda: what we do with Monday is still up in the air21:23
devanandattx: ah. having it all in the same building will help a lot, and actually may obviate my concern about the overlap21:23
morganfainbergdevananda, ++21:23
ttxdepends a lot on how much room we'll actually have21:23
jokke_devananda: at least I felt that the ops separation was awful ... we saw really small cross participation and it took at least me a full missed day to even find it21:23
ttxfifieldt__ said he would rather have sessions on Monday too21:23
ttx(ops sessions)21:23
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ttxOn another note, I'll probably have to ask PTLs for their ideal allocation mix /before/ the new PTL election21:24
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ttxso the old PTl would pick the mix and the new PTL would use it21:25
ttxI don't see much options to avoid that, we'll need to work on allocation way before the election21:25
eglynnthe old PTL is likely to get some team consensus on the preferred mix21:25
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eglynn... i.e. not just pick it unilaterally I'd guess21:25
ttxyes, and a lot of old = new21:25
devanandattx: seems fine to me21:25
ttxjust a detail I wanted to mention21:25
eglynnyeap, doesn't seem like a huge issue21:26
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ttxOK, last questions / comments on that ,21:26
ttx?21:26
asalkeldall good21:26
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ttx#topic Open discussion & announcements21:26
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thingeettx: o/21:26
ttxthingee: go for it21:27
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thingeeFor the juno release, there have been deprecation warning going out from Cinder on v1 being removed by Kilo.21:27
thingeeSome have expressed to me one release is not enough notice.21:27
thingeeregardless of v2 being around since G. Comments?21:28
bknudsonis it causing problems to keep it there?21:28
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ttxagree with bknudson, it's more a tradeoff than a hard rule. One release is the minimum21:28
eglynnisn't two full cycles the norm for the deprecation path on major API versions?21:28
morganfainbergeglynn, typically21:28
thingeebknudson: that's a good point. It has been little technical debt the past two releases.21:29
eglynnbut yeah, not an iron law or anything21:29
ttxthingee: if you can afford to keep it for two in deprecation, by all means, please do :)21:29
jungleboyjthingee: Just the occasional reminder to not add function there.21:29
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thingeemostly there is an issue that exists with two service types being around for volume and volumev2.21:30
morganfainbergthingee, i recommend making people happy and keep it for 221:30
thingeeIdeally I would like volume to point to x.x.x.x:8776 instead of a particular version endpoint, and just do discovery.21:30
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jungleboyjthingee: Can't we do discovery and leave v1 around still?21:30
thingeejungleboyj: yes21:30
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thingeeok that's all for me. I guess expect me going around to everyone using cinder client to rid volumev2.21:31
thingeettx: thanks21:31
morganfainbergjungleboy, but at a certain point you want to drop that stuff from the codebase is all21:31
asalkeldi don't think heat is on to cinder v2 yeat21:31
thingeegetting rid in L-1 that is21:31
thingeeasalkeld: it is21:31
ttxWe had 1:1 syncs today, where I tried to collect all project-specific deadlines...21:31
ttxLogs at:21:31
ttx#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2015/ptl_sync.2015-01-13-08.59.html21:31
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asalkeldok, thought there was a bp for it21:31
ttxWe'll skip 1:1s next week.21:31
jungleboyjmorganfainberg: +2 ... Was just making sure we could hold on to it a little longer and still move forward.21:31
morganfainbergttx, confirmed 2-wk prior to k3 code-feature-freeze for keystone.21:32
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ttxwow, that's what rehubbing means21:32
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morganfainbergttx, erm code-feature-proposal21:32
morganfainbergwow.21:32
morganfainbergnice netsplit21:32
ttxI guess that means the meeting is over21:32
devanandaheh21:32
morganfainberghey and we didn't lose the openstack bot21:32
ttxI think we still have the meetbot on our side21:32
morganfainbergttx, ++21:32
ttxBTW, if anyone is interested in chairing the cross-project meeting, let me know. I'm fine sharing chairing :)21:32
morganfainbergttx, ^^ if you didn't see the comment about code freeze for keystone21:33
ttxI did see it fly21:33
morganfainbergttx, 2wks prior to k3 as we discussed21:33
morganfainberg:)21:33
morganfainbergcool21:33
ttxAnything else, anyone ?21:33
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morganfainberg(anyone that is left)21:34
morganfainbergaaaaannnd round 221:34
ttxwe still win21:34
morganfainberghah!21:34
dhellmannwoo21:34
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devananda\o/21:34
ttxtempted to cotinue to play21:34
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asalkeldthingee, gone21:34
ttxbut then if I can't close the meeting we may have an issue21:34
morganfainbergttx, let it ride! one more time.... it'll be all good.21:34
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ttxwoosh21:34
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jokke_yeah ... I think we split out as that's around 300 on the other side21:35
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samueldmqlol21:35
asalkeldthingee: yeah heat is ok: https://github.com/openstack/heat/blob/master/heat/engine/clients/os/cinder.py#L38-L4621:35
ttxany last comment before we close the meeting ?21:35
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ttxor before we get rehubbed21:35
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ttxI'll take that as a "no"21:36
ttx#endmeeting21:36
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:36
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 13 21:36:10 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:36
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-01-13-21.05.html21:36
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-01-13-21.05.txt21:36
jungleboyjThanks!21:36
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-01-13-21.05.log.html21:36
ttxThanks everyone!21:36
jokke_oh ... freenode is rehubbing for maintenance ... was announced at :2221:36
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jokke_thnx21:36
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