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garyk | any folks around for the vmware-api meeting - that is on #openstack-meeting-4. | 10:00 |
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annegentle | okay here we are | 14:01 |
nickchase | Morning all!@ | 14:01 |
annegentle | #startmeeting docteam | 14:01 |
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openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 11 14:01:31 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:01 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 14:01 |
annegentle | hi nickchase! | 14:01 |
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annegentle | Here's our agenda for the meeting | 14:01 |
annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 14:02 |
annegentle | first item | 14:02 |
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annegentle | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 14:02 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:02 | |
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annegentle | Oh I think I'm going to borrow from the API Working group and add #topic and #link commands to the agenda itself next time | 14:02 |
annegentle | Ok, last meeting | 14:02 |
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annegentle | that was the APAC meeting, here's the action item | 14:03 |
annegentle | asettle to book informal Brisbane meetup for 31 March, and send out invites | 14:03 |
annegentle | That doesn't affect too many of us in this timezone | 14:03 |
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annegentle | from our last meeting, Andreas and I had all the action items | 14:04 |
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annegentle | Done: AJaeger to update the docs driver spec at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133372/ | 14:04 |
annegentle | Done: annegentle to make a call for final review in the weekly docs status update post | 14:04 |
annegentle | Done: annegentle to update .htaccess and then delete /trunk/install and /trunk/training-guides | 14:04 |
annegentle | oh wait | 14:04 |
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annegentle | Done: KLevenstein to share a lightweight “how to contribute to openstack” doc | 14:04 |
annegentle | thanks KLevenstein! | 14:04 |
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annegentle | so that was sort of backwards order but they're all done | 14:05 |
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annegentle | any questions? | 14:05 |
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annegentle | We don't have an ajaeger, darn :) | 14:05 |
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annegentle | #topic Any theme bugs that would prevent releasing RST-based User Guide | 14:05 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Any theme bugs that would prevent releasing RST-based User Guide (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:05 | |
sicarie | Is there a link to the lightweight guide for those of us who were not here last meeting? | 14:05 |
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annegentle | sicarie: sure I'll find the link | 14:05 |
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sicarie | Thanks! | 14:06 |
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annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/HowTo/FirstTimers | 14:06 |
annegentle | and then the one KLevenstein sent out is here: | 14:06 |
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annegentle | #link https://gist.github.com/klevenstein/20ab9def5cec5146f995 | 14:06 |
sicarie | Thanks annegentle | 14:06 |
annegentle | sure thing | 14:07 |
annegentle | there's not much that's truly lightweight :) | 14:07 |
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nickchase | brb, network issues | 14:07 |
sicarie | Very true - bdpayne and I are looking to revise the sec-guide contribution sections, so this is awesome | 14:07 |
annegentle | Okay, I've been sending out queries to the mailing list, are there any killer bugs that would prevent us from RST | 14:07 |
annegentle | sicarie: great! | 14:08 |
annegentle | prevent us from switching to RST for the end user guide and admin user guide? | 14:08 |
annegentle | Darren asked some great questions about the HOT chapter, I think we've got that covered. | 14:08 |
annegentle | and the translation team and Daisy really came through as did Andreas with the rest of the toolchain | 14:08 |
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annegentle | #info Much gratitude to Daisy, Andreas, and everyone who helped with the RST translation toolchain addition | 14:09 |
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annegentle | so, I've been trying to get a decent count of "what's left to migrate" | 14:10 |
annegentle | and I've updated the wiki page | 14:10 |
annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate | 14:11 |
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annegentle | Darren has been going great gangbusters | 14:11 |
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annegentle | #info There are about 20 remaining files for the Admin User Guide migration | 14:11 |
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annegentle | One bit of info I want to figure out today is "how many files are remaining for the end user guide to be completely migrated" | 14:12 |
annegentle | so I'll figure that out and do a ML post with "state of the migration" updates (hopefully today) | 14:12 |
annegentle | I'm out next week for spring break so I don't know how many more I'll get to myself, this is definitely a call for HELP. | 14:12 |
annegentle | #help Sign up to migrate XML to RST for the End User Guide and Admin User Guide | 14:12 |
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karenb | #help | 14:13 |
annegentle | Now that the translation toolchain is looking good, we must migrate everything by April 9. | 14:13 |
annegentle | karenb: that help command goes to the meetbot for note-taking | 14:13 |
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annegentle | I think you can use /help for IRC commands | 14:13 |
annegentle | it's a call for help in the notes :) | 14:13 |
annegentle | I know I've been asking people to send questions to the ML about what conventions we want for RST | 14:14 |
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annegentle | such as: do we want multiple admonitions in a row? | 14:14 |
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annegentle | and | 14:14 |
annegentle | Any clever solutions to console output past the 79 char limit? | 14:15 |
Sam-I-Am | we used to get scrollbars | 14:15 |
annegentle | Last night I sent Darren an example of what we did for the Ops Guide, where O'Reilly has hard limits due to the printed page | 14:15 |
Sam-I-Am | we could also use a smaller font | 14:15 |
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Sam-I-Am | i think this one is bigger (or bolder) than what we used to render | 14:15 |
annegentle | Sam-I-Am: oh other good news on admonitions, there's a patch in place to fix the small icon, and yes, the font is smaller. | 14:16 |
annegentle | Sam-I-Am: let me show you just a sec | 14:16 |
annegentle | #link http://docs-draft.openstack.org/64/162164/6/check/gate-openstackdocstheme-docs/99e7de3//doc/build/html/ | 14:16 |
annegentle | Sam-I-Am: it has more "white space" which is actually colored than before | 14:17 |
annegentle | I think, back to the original topic, we need Next and Prev links before releasing | 14:17 |
annegentle | But the original bugs that were really high on my list are getting fixed by Bernd Bausch in really clever ways. | 14:17 |
annegentle | (The admonitions were a must have for me) | 14:18 |
Sam-I-Am | did the 'file a bug' icon gain meta yet? | 14:18 |
annegentle | Sam-I-Am: he's working on it but stalled I believe | 14:18 |
annegentle | Sam-I-Am: so nope not yet, is that a blocker? | 14:18 |
Sam-I-Am | yep | 14:18 |
Sam-I-Am | i think so | 14:18 |
annegentle | (I really want it) | 14:18 |
annegentle | I also really want the TOC to work better | 14:18 |
Sam-I-Am | turns out people at the ops meetup really like it | 14:18 |
annegentle | yeah it's super useful | 14:18 |
annegentle | ok I'd better keep getting through the topics | 14:19 |
annegentle | #topic Driver doc editors and deadlines | 14:19 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Driver doc editors and deadlines (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:19 | |
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annegentle | The announcement went to the 3rd party list last week about the driver docs | 14:19 |
annegentle | I think there's some concern about deletions but I don't think we have deletions in mind, mostly expectations setting. | 14:19 |
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annegentle | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/docs-specs/specs/kilo/move-driver-docs.html | 14:21 |
annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/VendorDrivers | 14:21 |
annegentle | #inf We have a decent list of storage driver contacts but need network, database, and hypervisor contacts | 14:22 |
annegentle | spread the word! | 14:22 |
annegentle | I'll add it to this week's What's Up Doc | 14:22 |
annegentle | any questions? | 14:22 |
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annegentle | #topic Report from Ops Meetup | 14:22 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Report from Ops Meetup (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:22 | |
annegentle | Sounds like Sam-I-Am is still there | 14:23 |
Sam-I-Am | yep | 14:23 |
annegentle | I wanted to share the list of etherpads | 14:23 |
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annegentle | #link http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/openstack-mid-cycle-meetup-day-one-roundup | 14:23 |
annegentle | That's the list of etherpads | 14:23 |
annegentle | and there are two other superuser.openstack.org articles I haven't read yet, so do take a look | 14:23 |
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annegentle | Anything specific to docs Sam-I-Am? I already reached out to the Security Guide lead Bryan to get his take on the security discussions | 14:24 |
Sam-I-Am | yeah, a few things | 14:24 |
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Sam-I-Am | first, cinder seems to be doing it right with their devs - no docs, no approve. | 14:25 |
annegentle | great | 14:25 |
annegentle | also explains why they have editors on that driver list :) | 14:25 |
Sam-I-Am | we need to see that with more projects | 14:25 |
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Sam-I-Am | learned a bit more about what people are generally doing for HA ... most of this will go to the HA guide team | 14:26 |
annegentle | great | 14:26 |
nickchase | excellent | 14:26 |
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annegentle | Sam-I-Am: Rabbitmq a lot of it? Seems like high problem set there | 14:26 |
Sam-I-Am | people like the networking guide... trying to get ops contributors for scenarios (either new or improvements) because they're in the trenches | 14:26 |
Sam-I-Am | everyone hates rabbitmq, but everything else is worse | 14:26 |
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Sam-I-Am | no one is using distro packages... except one guy at canonical. | 14:27 |
annegentle | ayup on the "in the trenches" | 14:27 |
annegentle | oh interesting | 14:27 |
annegentle | but for that group, using their own packages makes sense | 14:27 |
Sam-I-Am | for various reasons | 14:27 |
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annegentle | were you in the tags session? | 14:27 |
Sam-I-Am | yes | 14:27 |
annegentle | any takeaways? | 14:27 |
Sam-I-Am | a larger question mark | 14:27 |
annegentle | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PHL-ops-tags | 14:28 |
annegentle | those are tags for governance of projects | 14:28 |
annegentle | yeah it's tough right | 14:28 |
Sam-I-Am | lots of argument around "how do we assure version X of thing1 works with version Y of thing2" | 14:28 |
annegentle | ok | 14:28 |
Sam-I-Am | what is "maturity" (and does it metter) | 14:28 |
annegentle | so intercompat | 14:28 |
annegentle | is the etherpad a decent set of notes from it? | 14:28 |
Sam-I-Am | yeah, all of the etherpads are good stuff | 14:29 |
annegentle | cool | 14:29 |
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annegentle | Okay gotta keep it moving | 14:29 |
annegentle | Thanks Sam-I-Am for going to it and representin' docs! | 14:29 |
annegentle | #topic Specialty team reports | 14:29 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Specialty team reports (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:29 | |
annegentle | Anyone from training here? | 14:29 |
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annegentle | Want to give a report on the latest? | 14:29 |
annegentle | I'll just link to their meeting | 14:30 |
annegentle | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2015/training_guides.2015-03-09-16.02.html | 14:30 |
annegentle | How about Security Guide team? | 14:31 |
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sicarie | yeah | 14:31 |
annegentle | sicarie: go ahead, just a brief update will do | 14:31 |
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sicarie | We have started an end-to-end review; there are three categories being targeted for review as they're "light" | 14:31 |
sicarie | compute, networking, and storage | 14:31 |
annegentle | nice | 14:31 |
annegentle | sicarie: logging doc bugs as you go? | 14:31 |
sicarie | I'm doing general structure cleanup | 14:32 |
sicarie | annegentle: of course! | 14:32 |
annegentle | sicarie: :) | 14:32 |
annegentle | You're such a model team :) | 14:32 |
sicarie | and we're targeting 'completion' of the larger projects by Liberty | 14:32 |
annegentle | awesome, so fall 2015? | 14:32 |
sicarie | yes | 14:32 |
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sicarie | I think that's as general I can get without ranting :) | 14:32 |
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annegentle | hee | 14:33 |
nickchase | Mom always did like you best. :) | 14:33 |
annegentle | okay, how about Networking? | 14:33 |
nickchase | We are actually making good progress... | 14:33 |
nickchase | though it's hard to see that... | 14:33 |
annegentle | nickchase: any updates? I'll dig up the link to your progress post to the ML too | 14:33 |
nickchase | with the git issues. | 14:33 |
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Sam-I-Am | git issues are consuming most of my time now | 14:33 |
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Sam-I-Am | and we have a new contributor who also cant figure it out | 14:34 |
nickchase | but we are trying to clean that up today. It's a little frustrating but we just need to go through it. I'm hoping... | 14:34 |
annegentle | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2015-February/005956.html | 14:34 |
nickchase | that as we get things settled it will smooth out. | 14:34 |
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annegentle | nickchase: sounds good | 14:34 |
nickchase | thank you for reminding me I'm one meeting minutes report b3ehind. :) | 14:34 |
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annegentle | nickchase: oh ha | 14:34 |
annegentle | nickchase: thanks for reminding people about the time change too | 14:35 |
nickchase | yeah, we've got a lot of that internally | 14:35 |
Sam-I-Am | nickchase: i think our meeting is still at the same time? | 14:35 |
Sam-I-Am | well, local time :) | 14:35 |
nickchase | yes | 14:35 |
annegentle | nickchase: usually you keep the same UTC time | 14:35 |
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nickchase | yeah, but everyone who attends is in the US. | 14:35 |
annegentle | Sam-I-Am: but it does mean different local | 14:35 |
nickchase | So we kept local time and moved UTC. | 14:35 |
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annegentle | ah | 14:36 |
annegentle | ok | 14:36 |
annegentle | rebel! | 14:36 |
annegentle | :) | 14:36 |
Sam-I-Am | that's nick! | 14:36 |
Sam-I-Am | kickin butt and taking names | 14:36 |
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annegentle | Okay, any other specialty teams want to report? | 14:36 |
annegentle | Install Guide has to meet still, right KLevenstein? | 14:36 |
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KLevenstein | trying to schedule a meeting as we speak, actually. | 14:37 |
Sam-I-Am | time is hard :/ | 14:37 |
KLevenstein | v. international team, so it’s a challenge, but as soon as something is settled on, will post to openstack-doc | 14:37 |
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annegentle | yeah time zones and time changes oh my | 14:38 |
annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yeah I'd like the team to work on the spec together, looks like you've got progress and KLevenstein review now too | 14:38 |
annegentle | so hopefully that keeps it moving | 14:38 |
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annegentle | Same for User Guide team, time zones are tough. | 14:38 |
annegentle | any other reports? | 14:38 |
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annegentle | Any questions? | 14:38 |
Sam-I-Am | ha guide? | 14:38 |
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annegentle | oh yeah! | 14:39 |
annegentle | Is MattGriffin around? | 14:39 |
annegentle | did you hear anything at the ops meetup Sam-I-Am? Sounds like ha-guide will get updates? | 14:39 |
nickchase | I can talk to ha guide | 14:39 |
nickchase | if he's not here. | 14:39 |
annegentle | nickchase: cool | 14:39 |
nickchase | ha guide will get updates. we have... | 14:39 |
nickchase | a fairly final toc which we're trying to assign writers for. | 14:40 |
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nickchase | I'm hoping that we have something more solid after this week's meeting | 14:40 |
Sam-I-Am | annegentle: yeah, i have a better idea of what people are doing | 14:40 |
Sam-I-Am | so this should hopefully narrow down excess in the guide | 14:40 |
Sam-I-Am | things no one really does | 14:40 |
annegentle | nickchase: cool, when's that meeting? | 14:40 |
nickchase | tomorrow afternoon | 14:41 |
annegentle | geez I should have queued up a list of all the meeting times, I'll add those to the weekly doc update email | 14:41 |
annegentle | so we can get more specialists involved | 14:41 |
Sam-I-Am | nickchase: did it change times too? lol | 14:41 |
nickchase | Sam-I-Am I will actually miss that meeting but can you send me the notes you have so I can try and browbeat people beforehand? | 14:41 |
annegentle | hee | 14:41 |
nickchase | Sam-I-Am I don't know, actually. :) probably | 14:41 |
nickchase | we should find out. :) | 14:41 |
Sam-I-Am | nickchase: yeah, i can put something together | 14:41 |
nickchase | thx | 14:41 |
Sam-I-Am | nickchase: send me an email :) | 14:42 |
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annegentle | Okay | 14:42 |
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Sam-I-Am | kind of in an everything-is-backed-up-from-travel mess | 14:42 |
annegentle | thanks all who are making the specialty teams organized, MUCH appreciated! | 14:42 |
nickchase | Sam-I-Am done | 14:42 |
annegentle | nickchase, KLevenstein, Loquacities, Everyone | 14:42 |
annegentle | #topic API docs update | 14:43 |
*** openstack changes topic to "API docs update (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:43 | |
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annegentle | I triaged all the bugs yesterday, there are probably 280 now | 14:43 |
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annegentle | bunch of Compute 2.1 API docimpacts landed looks like | 14:43 |
Sam-I-Am | would be nice to get nova people to attack them | 14:43 |
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annegentle | I wanted to let you all know I'm going to take a JSON Schema patch solution to the API Working Group's meeting tomorrow to figure out if it's an okay stop-gap solution for not wanting to write XSDs and to offer automation. | 14:44 |
annegentle | Oh what I did for those DocImpact was to Subscribe the original author | 14:44 |
annegentle | that way they'll be notified. | 14:44 |
Sam-I-Am | good. | 14:44 |
nickchase | great idea | 14:44 |
annegentle | it's so amazing, the backlog of reviews for api-site is unprecedented | 14:44 |
annegentle | but it also means a lot of review time :) | 14:45 |
annegentle | I'll take it though, happy to see the uptick | 14:45 |
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Sam-I-Am | are there any plans to replace wadl? | 14:45 |
annegentle | I think that's it for API docs, any questions? | 14:45 |
Sam-I-Am | that came up at the ops meetup too | 14:45 |
annegentle | Sam-I-Am: I will visit it in a blueprint next release for sho' | 14:45 |
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Sam-I-Am | k | 14:45 |
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annegentle | we have a Swagger migration path now but I've got to get the RST migration settled | 14:45 |
annegentle | all in good time | 14:46 |
annegentle | leads naturally to | 14:46 |
annegentle | #topic Doc tools update | 14:46 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Doc tools update (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:46 | |
annegentle | I wanted to note how much Bernd has taken on for the Sphinx output, really love his work. | 14:46 |
annegentle | he documents all his code, and commit messages are really thorough, and his tests are easy to follow. | 14:46 |
annegentle | I'll try to do a release of openstackdocstheme this week before I go on spring break | 14:47 |
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annegentle | Well I'll DEFINITELY do a release by tomorrow, how about that | 14:47 |
AJaeger | sorry, completely missed this ;( | 14:47 |
Sam-I-Am | spring break... heh. | 14:47 |
annegentle | #info annegentle to create release of openstackdocstheme tomorow | 14:47 |
annegentle | welcome AJaeger! | 14:47 |
annegentle | Just got to doc tools! Great timing :) | 14:47 |
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AJaeger | ;/ | 14:48 |
annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yeah my spring break will consist of a staycation with two squirrelly sons :) | 14:48 |
annegentle | AJaeger: how's the translation stuff going? | 14:48 |
AJaeger | before we can build translated RST documents, we have to release openstack-doc-tools first, I send a patch for review | 14:48 |
AJaeger | But this is not time-critical! | 14:49 |
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annegentle | AJaeger: okay | 14:49 |
AJaeger | First the translators need to translate and right now they cannot translate, since we're changing everything ;) | 14:49 |
annegentle | AJaeger: I mentioned earlier that I'd like all the RST ready by April 9 | 14:49 |
AJaeger | I tested that it works, so we can move forward | 14:49 |
annegentle | AJaeger: ah, okay. Good to know. | 14:49 |
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AJaeger | And import/export to transifex works. | 14:49 |
annegentle | woo! I sincerely hoped it would "just work" | 14:49 |
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annegentle | so I'm glad we know it does | 14:50 |
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AJaeger | it needed some changes - thanks to Daisy for documenting how to really do it.. | 14:50 |
annegentle | thank you AJaeger for all that work (My earlier gushing gratitude is in the meeting log) :) | 14:50 |
annegentle | AJaeger: she's awesome | 14:50 |
annegentle | AJaeger: like, really really good | 14:50 |
AJaeger | ;) | 14:50 |
AJaeger | +infinity ;) | 14:50 |
annegentle | Okay let's leave lots of time for open discussion if there aren't doc tool questions | 14:50 |
annegentle | #topic Open discussion | 14:51 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:51 | |
annegentle | questions? | 14:51 |
AJaeger | I'd like to do a call for core reviewers - we've slowed down with getting patches in. | 14:52 |
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AJaeger | There are far too many patches that take weeks to get in ;( | 14:52 |
Sam-I-Am | because of -1s or just waiting for any reviews? | 14:52 |
annegentle | AJaeger: yes, do you think that's a side effect of migration patches? Though I am seeing it too for API docs for sure. | 14:52 |
AJaeger | Just waiting for reviews - exapmle https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158275/ from 23rd of February. | 14:52 |
AJaeger | Lots of +1s, today a +1 with a comment that I fixed directly - and no single core reviewed | 14:53 |
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AJaeger | And there are more | 14:53 |
annegentle | AJaeger: looking at the 30/60/90 review lists I can certainly make suggestions | 14:53 |
nickchase | what's the list of patches waiting for review? | 14:53 |
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AJaeger | There are some patches that have smooth sailing and go in quickly as usual but my feeling is that we have slowed down | 14:53 |
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AJaeger | nickchase, https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/openstack-manuals,n,z | 14:54 |
annegentle | I use https://review.openstack.org/#/dashboard/?foreach=%28project%3Aopenstack%2Fopenstack-manuals+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fapi-site+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fdocs-specs+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fobject-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fimage-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fidentity-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fcompute-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fvolume-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fnetconn-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fopera | 14:54 |
annegentle | tions-guide+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fsecurity-doc+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Ftraining-guides+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fopenstack-doc-tools+OR+project%3Astackforge%2Fclouddocs-maven-plugin+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fha-guide%29+status%3Aopen+NOT+owner%3Aself+NOT+label%3AWorkflow%3C%3D-1+label%3AVerified%3E%3D1%252cjenkins+NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3C%3D-1%252cself+NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3E%3D1%252cself&title=Ops%2FUser+Do | 14:54 |
annegentle | cs+Review+Inbox&&Needs+feedback+%28Changes+older+than+5+days+that+have+not+been+reviewed+by+anyone%29=NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3C%3D2+age%3A5d&Specs=project%3Aopenstack%2Fdocs-specs+status%3Aopen&API+Docs=%28project%3Aopenstack%2Fapi-site+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fobject-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fimage-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fidentity-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fcompute-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fvolume-ap | 14:54 |
annegentle | i+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fnetconn-api%29+status%3Aopen&Ops%2FAdmin+Docs=%28project%3Aopenstack%2Fopenstack-manuals+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Foperations-guide+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fsecurity-doc%29+status%3Aopen&Training=project%3Aopenstack%2Ftraining-guides&Doc+Tools=%28project%3Aopenstack%2Fopenstack-doc-tools+OR+project%3Astackforge%2Fclouddocs-maven-plugin%29+status%3Aopen&You+are+a+reviewer+%28but+haven%27t+v | 14:54 |
annegentle | oted+in+the+current+revision%29=reviewer%3Aself&Needs+final+%2B2=%28project%3Aopenstack%2Fopenstack-manuals+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fapi-site+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fobject-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fimage-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fidentity-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fcompute-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fvolume-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fnetconn-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Foperations-guide+OR+project%3Aop | 14:54 |
Sam-I-Am | aaaaaaaaa | 14:54 |
annegentle | enstack%2Fsecurity-doc+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Ftraining-guides+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fha-guide%29+label%3ACode-Review%3E%3D2+limit%3A50&Passed+Jenkins+%28with+no+negative+feedback%29=NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3E%3D2+NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3C%3D-1+limit%3A50&Wayward+Changes+%28Changes+with+no+code+review+in+the+last+two+days%29=NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3C%3D2+age%3A2d | 14:54 |
annegentle | oh lordy | 14:54 |
annegentle | sorry | 14:54 |
AJaeger | and it' not only my patches... | 14:54 |
nickchase | :) | 14:54 |
nickchase | thanks | 14:54 |
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annegentle | #link http://is.gd/JAHGeA | 14:54 |
Sam-I-Am | i try to do reviews, but been stuck on a lot of other things | 14:54 |
Sam-I-Am | (like git problems) | 14:54 |
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annegentle | it's a problem I've been wanting for years, so bring it on | 14:55 |
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Sam-I-Am | i would like to get this in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158983/ | 14:56 |
Sam-I-Am | because then i can convert the others similarly | 14:56 |
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AJaeger | Sam-I-Am, I left a question on that one - you spoke about migration but where is the original? IT's not in git... | 14:56 |
Sam-I-Am | AJaeger: its in my personal git repo | 14:57 |
Sam-I-Am | AJaeger: as are the other scenarios | 14:57 |
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annegentle | Sam-I-Am: is Lana working on it as a template for the other scenarios? | 14:57 |
AJaeger | Sam-I-Am, everybody was looking in openstack-manuals for it. ;( | 14:57 |
AJaeger | Sam-I-Am, next time state where it comes from so that it's clear. | 14:57 |
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Sam-I-Am | AJaeger: we decided to contribute technical content outside of gerrit so contributors could avoid the docs tool chain and -1 stuff. | 14:58 |
AJaeger | could you comment there, please? | 14:58 |
AJaeger | Sam-I-Am, there is content in openstack-manuals that is similar to what you contribute - so now you confuse users. | 14:58 |
AJaeger | State next time: Import from XXX of this content | 14:58 |
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Sam-I-Am | AJaeger: ok i can do that | 14:59 |
AJaeger | Migration is for me the thing we do in the user-guide - a 1:1 copy of existing content in openstack-manual in XML to RST | 14:59 |
nickchase | AJaeger the problem is that it's taken too long to get things merged | 14:59 |
AJaeger | annegentle, time is out, we have to leave | 14:59 |
annegentle | AJaeger: ayup | 15:00 |
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annegentle | Okay! | 15:00 |
annegentle | Thanks all for attending | 15:00 |
annegentle | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 15:00 | |
openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 11 15:00:24 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-03-11-14.01.html | 15:00 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-03-11-14.01.txt | 15:00 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-03-11-14.01.log.html | 15:00 |
annegentle | Continue in #openstack-doc as you like | 15:00 |
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Sam-I-Am | see y'all later. off to the next meeting. | 15:00 |
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thingee | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 11 16:00:00 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
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thingee | hi everyone! | 16:00 |
tbarron | hi | 16:00 |
bswartz | hi | 16:00 |
deepakcs | hi all | 16:00 |
xyang | hi | 16:00 |
murugang-brcd | hi | 16:00 |
scottda | hi | 16:00 |
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deepakcs | o/ | 16:00 |
kaisers2 | hi | 16:00 |
gary-smith_ | hi | 16:00 |
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e0ne | hi | 16:00 |
rhe00 | hi | 16:00 |
smcginnis | howdy | 16:00 |
thingee | so I've been MIA getting feedback at the ops meetup and doing patches here and there. Just wanted to say you all did an awesome job in my absense | 16:00 |
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Swanson | hello | 16:01 |
thingee | seriously look at this https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/kilo-3 | 16:01 |
thingee | so much green! | 16:01 |
cebruns | hi | 16:01 |
kmartin | hello | 16:01 |
eharney | hi | 16:01 |
jgravel | hello | 16:01 |
jungleboyj | o/ | 16:01 |
geguileo | hi | 16:01 |
thingee | so thanks everyone for making k-3 successful with Cinder | 16:01 |
patrickeast | hey | 16:01 |
terrylhowe | o/ | 16:01 |
thingee | closing remarks on multi-attach for me | 16:02 |
thingee | I'm not upset that this is merging. I gave my comments, but ultimately it's up to the community on the direction, so it's merging for k-3 | 16:02 |
thingee | just want to recognize hemna for his hard work on this. | 16:02 |
thingee | and everyone testing/reviewing things | 16:02 |
jgriffith | o/ | 16:02 |
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hemna | thanks to everyone for the help and understanding. | 16:03 |
thingee | ok enough me cheerleading...lets get starteD! | 16:03 |
hemna | the work isn't done, and I'll follow up and finish it off. | 16:03 |
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thingee | agenda for today: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Next_meeting | 16:03 |
DuncanT | Aye, well persevered, Walt | 16:03 |
jungleboyj | hemna: Thank you! | 16:03 |
thingee | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Next_meeting | 16:03 |
thingee | #topic Cinder supports several target objects now for the lvm driver | 16:04 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder supports several target objects now for the lvm driver (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:04 | |
thingee | hemna: hi | 16:04 |
hemna | so yah | 16:04 |
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thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158829/ | 16:04 |
hemna | I though of this issue when I was reviewing the IeT target driver | 16:04 |
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hemna | and realized that I don't think we are CI'ing all of the different target drivers that land | 16:04 |
hemna | and I wanted to raise the issue and see how we can make sure that the targets get CI'd/gated | 16:05 |
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thingee | hemna: +1 | 16:05 |
hemna | since they fundamentally change how some drivers that use them work, namely lvm | 16:05 |
jgriffith | hemna: nope, we're not and we never have | 16:05 |
thingee | I agree and I think it's fair after me requesting this from zone manager drivers | 16:05 |
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asselin_ | o/ | 16:05 |
eharney | should note that IET is not exactly new, though | 16:05 |
jgriffith | eharney: +1 | 16:06 |
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hemna | eharney, yah I know, but what is new is the target mechanism | 16:06 |
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thingee | jgriffith even asked for this with LIO | 16:06 |
hemna | and ensuring that they all get tested/gated | 16:06 |
jgriffith | as I've explained multiple times, IET has been in place since nova-volume | 16:06 |
eharney | just important for context | 16:06 |
hemna | eharney, +1 | 16:06 |
jgriffith | I'm fine if somebody wants to propose either adding it to the gate/CI or deprecating in next release | 16:06 |
hemna | thingee, yah especially if we add LIO with all of it's possible transports | 16:06 |
eharney | adding/deprecating what exactly? | 16:07 |
jgriffith | eharney: that question for me? | 16:07 |
eharney | jgriffith: yes | 16:07 |
flip214 | hemna: what's the status of the various ways? in the DRBD-for-nova patch I had to add support to brick, target driver, and the real implementation... which of these should survice? | 16:07 |
jgriffith | eharney: so IET inparticular | 16:08 |
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jgriffith | eharney: we need to do something with LIO as well IMO (although I know RHEL does work here) | 16:08 |
thingee | jgriffith: so does datera | 16:08 |
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thingee | jgriffith: we wrote the damn thing :) | 16:08 |
hemna | :P | 16:08 |
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jgriffith | thingee: well... my point was RHEL deploys with it | 16:08 |
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jgriffith | thingee: they use it with LVM in packstack deploys | 16:09 |
hemna | flip214, not sure I understand the question sorry. | 16:09 |
thingee | jgriffith: so do we, although those are POC's :D | 16:09 |
jgriffith | thingee: ok, good for you :) That's not my point though | 16:09 |
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jgriffith | thingee: my point is that we should have some visible testing | 16:09 |
thingee | jgriffith: anyways I think it's fine for these to be within CI's of drivers is fine? | 16:09 |
jgriffith | that's all | 16:09 |
thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:09 |
jgriffith | thingee: eharney I'd also like to ask if anybody thinks we should limit target options? | 16:10 |
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hemna | jgriffith, +1 | 16:10 |
flip214 | hemna: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156212/ had to touch brick, target driver, and then provide the implementation just to get the codepaths to work. | 16:10 |
jgriffith | thingee: eharney I think I floated the idea of making LIO default and dropping some others in the past but I don't think we were ready | 16:10 |
thingee | jgriffith: I would disagree with that, mainly because I'm not sure why LIO should be limited to just ISCSI | 16:10 |
geguileo | jgriffith: In what sense? | 16:10 |
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jgriffith | thingee: no no.. .that's not what I mean | 16:10 |
flip214 | will any of these get cleaned up before L, so that I can drop some bits of that patch? | 16:10 |
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thingee | jgriffith: oh ok | 16:10 |
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eharney | what's the thinking there? | 16:10 |
jungleboyj | forgive my ignorance, but how many different targets are we talking about? | 16:11 |
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jgriffith | thingee: what I mean is we now have IET, TgtADM, LIO and then all the crazy variants that went in this release | 16:11 |
DuncanT | thingee: I think testing them as part of a driver CI is fine, though some way of tracing what is tested where would be useful | 16:11 |
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hemna | flip214, hadn't seen that one yet, so I can't really comment just yet. can chat about it in #cinder if you like after the meeting | 16:11 |
jgriffith | thingee: do we want to keep dragging alll of these? | 16:11 |
thingee | DuncanT: +1 | 16:11 |
eharney | jungleboyj: i think we're at about 5 total now? | 16:11 |
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jgriffith | thingee: or do we want to pick say LIO and deprecate drop IET and TGT | 16:11 |
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thingee | jgriffith: might change after a certain session in vancouver | 16:11 |
jungleboyj | eharney: Thanks. | 16:11 |
hemna | DuncanT, +1. That's exactly what I was hoping for | 16:11 |
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jgriffith | thingee: ? | 16:11 |
* thingee looks around secretly | 16:11 | |
jungleboyj | DuncanT: +2 | 16:12 |
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jgriffith | well.. not sure anybody else has a concern on this; so I'll step back | 16:12 |
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jgriffith | I am concerened about the matrix of targets and drivers but guess it's ok | 16:13 |
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hemna | jgriffith, I think that might be a valid but separate discussion ? | 16:13 |
smcginnis | jgriffith: +1 | 16:13 |
thingee | jgriffith: do we have a matrix problem with target drivers? | 16:13 |
hemna | jgriffith, well I am concerned as well, which is why I was bringing the topic of CI for the various targets up. | 16:13 |
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jgriffith | thingee: well... IMO yeah, kinda | 16:13 |
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* thingee feels dumb for not knowing this | 16:13 | |
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jgriffith | thingee: LVM can use one of 4 tgt drivers now | 16:14 |
thingee | jgriffith: I thought abc is enforced with the target class? | 16:14 |
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* thingee might be confused | 16:14 | |
jgriffith | thingee: but that's not the point | 16:14 |
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jgriffith | thingee: enforcing abc is fine, but it doesn't mean it's getting tested or works well | 16:14 |
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jgriffith | thingee: and it does't mean we get to focus on improving maintaining "one" thing | 16:14 |
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jgriffith | but as hemna said, maybe thisis a different topic? | 16:15 |
thingee | jgriffith: true, look at the bandaid fix I did with tgt | 16:15 |
thingee | with acls missing | 16:15 |
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thingee | that would've been annoying to keep in gate come close to march 19th | 16:15 |
hemna | lets make migration to LIO target a topic in Vancouver ? | 16:15 |
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jungleboyj | hemna: +1 | 16:15 |
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thingee | hemna: I would like that, but I think I need to spend more time making things more accessible for everyone as jgriffith pointed out | 16:15 |
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jungleboyj | THis seems like something that we need to be in a room to discuss. | 16:16 |
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smcginnis | I agree with hemna's point that of we have all these options, we should make sure they are covered by CI. | 16:16 |
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thingee | and accessible I mean easier for people using debian based systems. | 16:16 |
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thingee | anyways that's a whole other topic | 16:16 |
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hemna | thingee, yah that sounds good, but another topic :P | 16:16 |
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thingee | so I think we agree with hemna that we need CI here. | 16:16 |
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hemna | sorrison, LIO improvements :) | 16:16 |
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thingee | hemna: I can put together a proposal? | 16:16 |
hemna | gah, xchat | 16:16 |
DuncanT | jgriffith: ++ | 16:16 |
hemna | thingee, +1 | 16:16 |
thingee | for L timeline | 16:16 |
hemna | that sounds great. | 16:17 |
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thingee | jgriffith: I would like to understand more on the feature matrix of the target drivers too | 16:17 |
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thingee | jgriffith: because I was not aware of this, sounds interesting | 16:17 |
hemna | I see 5 or 6 targets in there now. | 16:17 |
thingee | #action thingee to make CI proposal for target drivers in cinder | 16:17 |
hemna | fc should be another, but that will hopefully get covered by LIO | 16:17 |
thingee | #action thingee to discuss with jgriffith about feature matrix in target driver | 16:18 |
thingee | hemna: +1 | 16:18 |
eharney | hemna: plus RDMA variants etc | 16:18 |
thingee | hemna: anything else? | 16:18 |
thingee | or anyone else? | 16:18 |
hemna | I'm good. | 16:18 |
hemna | eharney, +1 | 16:18 |
thingee | nvme is about to land in LIO too ;D | 16:18 |
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* thingee thingee raises the roof | 16:18 | |
jgriffith | eharney: +1 | 16:19 |
thingee | #topic Make public Volume Snapshots | 16:19 |
hemna | w00t | 16:19 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Make public Volume Snapshots (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:19 | |
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thingee | no name, you're up! | 16:19 |
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thingee | oh | 16:19 |
thingee | rushiagr: hi | 16:19 |
thingee | rakesh_mishra_: hi | 16:19 |
rushiagr | o/ | 16:20 |
thingee | blueprint: | 16:20 |
rakesh_mishra_ | hi | 16:20 |
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thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/125045/ | 16:20 |
thingee | patch: | 16:20 |
thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159372/ | 16:20 |
e0ne | looks too late for Kilo: blueprint is not targeted, code should be rebased | 16:20 |
thingee | e0ne: +1 | 16:20 |
thingee | getting that out of the way, what did we want to discuss with this rushiagr ? | 16:20 |
* DuncanT is still against to cencept | 16:20 | |
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rushiagr | thingee: about the idea | 16:21 |
rushiagr | thingee: if people still see this as something not required for cinder | 16:21 |
e0ne | DuncanT: maybe spec will give us more details? | 16:21 |
thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/125045/ | 16:22 |
thingee | e0ne: ^ | 16:22 |
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jgriffith | rushiagr: I'm still kinda of opposed, and I still ask: "why" | 16:22 |
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jgriffith | rushiagr: that's what we did volume_transfer for | 16:22 |
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thingee | the last time we discussed this, we wanted better use cases. | 16:22 |
* thingee checks if the spec has been updated with that info | 16:23 | |
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jgriffith | rushiagr: there are a number of complexities that this is going to add IMO and I don't see much gain | 16:23 |
e0ne | oops. i missed link for spec in bp | 16:23 |
jgriffith | other than "it's nifty" | 16:23 |
thingee | rushiagr: the spec still doesn't included added use cases | 16:23 |
thingee | rushiagr: which is what we asked for the last time this was brought up in the meeting | 16:23 |
* thingee has a spec to require this in specs. it'll be great | 16:24 | |
thingee | spec update rather | 16:24 |
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jungleboyj | :-) Specs for specs. | 16:24 |
rushiagr | thingee: I think that was for sharing snapshots with a particular tenant.. | 16:24 |
jgriffith | jungleboyj: hehe | 16:24 |
hemna | jungleboyj, and a template for those spec specs, with hacking checks. | 16:24 |
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thingee | it's hacking checks all the way down | 16:24 |
jungleboyj | :-) | 16:25 |
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* jungleboyj gets my hacking check writing hat out. | 16:25 | |
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thingee | rushiagr: yeah I still don't get why someone wants to do that. I think we've discussed just sharing images before? | 16:25 |
rushiagr | jgriffith: I think 'nifty' is a good thing to have.. | 16:25 |
DuncanT | rushiagr: -- | 16:25 |
jgriffith | rushiagr: sure, depending on the cost | 16:25 |
e0ne | jgriffith: +1 | 16:25 |
patrickeast | i am a fan of this feature, saves a lot of time creating volumes from a base snapshot instead of image for arrays like ours where its basically a no-op to create volume from snapshot | 16:26 |
patrickeast | without having to put in a image cache kind of thing | 16:26 |
jgriffith | rushiagr: so IMO if we're going to promote snapshots like this we need to revisit our stance on what "snapshots are" and how they'r eused | 16:26 |
thingee | rushiagr: so here's the thing, I'm not hearing a strong reason to have this from folks. do you have users in mind who are really wanting this? and if so, can they speak why? | 16:26 |
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e0ne | patrickeast, rushiagr: what is the _real_ usecases from users and/or operators? | 16:26 |
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jgriffith | patrickeast: good point... but why does it matter if it's shared or private to tenant? | 16:26 |
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rushiagr | jgriffith: I don't think this breaks our definition of a snapshot. A user will still need to create a vol out of this (publicly shared, owned by a different guy) snapshot | 16:26 |
DuncanT | patrickeast: I'd rather you put time into image caching and better glance integration, and get fast BfV as a side effect of this usecase | 16:27 |
jgriffith | patrickeast: you mean so tenants don't have duplicate templates? | 16:27 |
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thingee | DuncanT: +1 | 16:27 |
jgriffith | patrickeast: I'm not sure in the real world there's the "common" template model everybody seems to envision here | 16:27 |
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patrickeast | jgriffith: yea, i'm not sure how much demand there really is for sharing them between tenants | 16:27 |
xyang | patrickeast: I actually have a customer who is interested in this feature for the same reason (create boot volume is too slow) | 16:28 |
patrickeast | jgriffith: this is something i've heard from our sales guys in the field asking for though | 16:28 |
jgriffith | patrickeast: that's the sticking point for me really | 16:28 |
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jgriffith | patrickeast: hmm... interesting | 16:28 |
jgriffith | patrickeast: be wary of the sales request :) | 16:28 |
patrickeast | hehe yea | 16:28 |
DuncanT | xyang: See my previous comments about just creating an image cache on the array | 16:28 |
jgriffith | patrickeast: I get asked for all sorts of crazy stuff from sales, most of the time they don't even know what a tenant is :) | 16:28 |
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xyang | DuncanT: ya, that will solve the problem too | 16:29 |
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thingee | rushiagr: ok, so again I'm going to sound like a broken record on this. Give me use cases, and users actually explaining why they want this. | 16:29 |
rushiagr | thingee: a customer of us uses the same API with amazon, and wants to use the same thing with openstack as they're planning to move.. I'm not saying amazon has it so do it, though.. | 16:29 |
jgriffith | patrickeast: xyang DuncanT thingee so rather than publick snapshots... maybe we need to talk in Vancouver about heirarchal access? | 16:29 |
DuncanT | jgriffith: ??? | 16:30 |
xyang | jgriffith: heirarchal access? | 16:30 |
thingee | the amazon case in openstack is kind of not a priority it seems, if you haven't noticed from other projects | 16:30 |
jgriffith | IIRC vishy proposed something like this a while ago... but I don't remember the details | 16:30 |
jungleboyj | jgriffith: I thought we had talked about that before. | 16:30 |
patrickeast | jgriffith: yea either that or maybe a more standardized image cache... if this is something others are going to run into might make sense to put something in that can be shared | 16:30 |
rushiagr | thingee: agree.. But I'm not seeing the downsides of this feature as well... | 16:30 |
jgriffith | DuncanT: so something like "tenant-A includes tenant-B, tenant-C...." | 16:31 |
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thingee | rushiagr: I'm not hearing a huge want for this feature either | 16:31 |
rushiagr | other than 'it's more code' | 16:31 |
hemna | rushiagr, lots and lots of complexity in the cinder codebase that we have to fix bugs in. | 16:31 |
jgriffith | DuncanT: things can be created for only tenant-A | 16:31 |
xyang | jgriffith: I see. | 16:31 |
jgriffith | or the parent tenant | 16:31 |
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jgriffith | I don't know where it ended up, but I liked it WAY better than the crazy ACL stuff that was going around | 16:31 |
DuncanT | jgriffith: How much support does keystone have for that? They were looking at it | 16:31 |
thingee | anyways, summit session I guess. get users feedback there. since it seems like this is not being answered in the spec. | 16:31 |
thingee | I get you can share to different tenants. | 16:31 |
jgriffith | DuncanT: sorry, I have zero details insight on where it ended up | 16:32 |
thingee | that's not a use case | 16:32 |
DuncanT | jgriffith: If keystone has sorted it, then sure we should investigate | 16:32 |
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e0ne | thingee: +1. we need to discuss it more | 16:32 |
jgriffith | there was a working group that started but I don't know where it went | 16:32 |
jgriffith | I'm happy to look into it if people are interested | 16:32 |
jgriffith | bring back any info next week | 16:32 |
thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:32 |
jgriffith | It might be dead for all I know :) | 16:32 |
thingee | haha | 16:32 |
xyang | jgriffith: that will be nice | 16:32 |
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thingee | #action jgriffith to get feedback for next meeting, if some working group is not dead. | 16:33 |
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thingee | #agreed potential summit session on this | 16:33 |
jgriffith | http://goo.gl/kcBHDt | 16:33 |
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vishy | you talking about hierachical multitenancy? | 16:33 |
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jgriffith | vishy: yeah :) | 16:33 |
thingee | a vishy appears! | 16:33 |
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vishy | the code is in keystone | 16:33 |
jgriffith | vishy: just posted link to wiki | 16:33 |
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thingee | rushiagr: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-liberty-proposed-sessions | 16:33 |
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jgriffith | vishy: awesome | 16:34 |
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jgriffith | thingee: rushiagr DuncanT xyang so I'd propose we look at that path instead | 16:34 |
thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:35 |
jgriffith | patrickeast: you too :) | 16:35 |
patrickeast | sounds good | 16:35 |
vishy | and nested-quota-support is proposed for nova | 16:35 |
xyang | jgriffith: sure, thanks | 16:35 |
DuncanT | jgriffith: Image cache magic is the way forward IMO | 16:35 |
vishy | not sure if it made it in yet | 16:35 |
rushiagr | I'll have a look.. | 16:35 |
thingee | #agreed potential hierarchy code in Keystone might solve this | 16:35 |
thingee | rushiagr: anything else? | 16:35 |
thingee | or anyone else on this? | 16:35 |
jgriffith | vishy: looks like part of it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129420/ | 16:35 |
thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129420/ | 16:36 |
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rushiagr | thingee: nope | 16:36 |
thingee | rushiagr: thanks | 16:36 |
vishy | nope didn’t make it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/151677/ | 16:36 |
thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/151677/ | 16:36 |
jgriffith | L it is :) | 16:36 |
vishy | implementing it is essentially updating quotas to support nested operations | 16:36 |
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thingee | #topic Code Freeze Exception for Kilo | 16:37 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Code Freeze Exception for Kilo (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:37 | |
vishy | then updating the list commands to handle them | 16:37 |
thingee | or I guess features only | 16:37 |
thingee | since we'll still accept bug fixes at this point | 16:37 |
jgriffith | vishy: well, we have a reference to work off of, and looks like it will start moving in L | 16:37 |
thingee | tbarron: hi | 16:37 |
vishy | get operations should work because roles are inherited | 16:37 |
jgriffith | vishy: so we can have some consistency | 16:37 |
tbarron | i want to thank xyang, jungleboyj, e0ne for awesome help getting the swift backup refactor through | 16:37 |
thingee | we'll start with you, because I'm getting this left and right | 16:37 |
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thingee | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056508.html | 16:37 |
tbarron | xyang esp did lots of last minute testing | 16:37 |
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tbarron | but all that was for one review of two | 16:38 |
thingee | #undo | 16:38 |
openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x2c4fc90> | 16:38 |
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tbarron | the second was dependent, didn't merge | 16:38 |
jungleboyj | tbarron: My pleasure. | 16:38 |
thingee | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/058814.html | 16:39 |
tbarron | but the code has been ready | 16:39 |
e0ne | tbarron: it still requiures rebase | 16:39 |
thingee | tbarron: I would disagree, I think we were waiting around prior to march 10th for new code to posted | 16:39 |
thingee | and it's in conflict right now | 16:39 |
tbarron | e0ne: yeah, i couldn't rebase till the change merged last night | 16:39 |
thingee | I think reviewers have been trying to work with you, but reups have been slow | 16:39 |
thingee | that's my opinion anyways. | 16:39 |
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tbarron | and the rebase just got triggered last Friday | 16:39 |
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tbarron | with serious changes to Swift | 16:40 |
tbarron | it wasn't so much a rebase as a rewrite | 16:40 |
xyang | it was because of my incremental backup patch got merged late | 16:40 |
xyang | and tbarron had to do a big rebase | 16:40 |
thingee | xyang: ah ok | 16:40 |
tbarron | xyang could speak to the complexity | 16:40 |
* tbarron notices she just did | 16:40 | |
tbarron | so the hard part is done | 16:40 |
xyang | swift.py was refactored completed. incremental backup changed swift.py. so rebase was complicated | 16:41 |
tbarron | and the small dependent change got stuck | 16:41 |
thingee | tbarron: it's still failing and conflicted | 16:41 |
thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149726 | 16:41 |
thingee | this is not ready | 16:41 |
xyang | I tested the rebased code and it worked | 16:41 |
thingee | and we're past deadline | 16:41 |
jungleboyj | thingee: Yeah, tbarron had to wait for xyang's change. Didn't realize that we needed to get xyang 's in first and it kind of screwed up tbarron | 16:41 |
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thingee | I'm not sure why someone would ask for exception for something that isn't ready right now to be merged. | 16:41 |
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thingee | instead of spending time on writing FFE to the mailing list | 16:42 |
tbarron | thingee: i respect your decision but the code on which it has to be rebased just merged at right before midnight last night Eastern time | 16:42 |
tbarron | thingee: I thought I was respecting the process and asking without doiing that was incorrect | 16:42 |
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thingee | so who is ready to +2 this now? | 16:42 |
jungleboyj | thingee: Once he rebases I am happy to look at it again. | 16:43 |
vilobhmm | i can have a look too | 16:43 |
thingee | tbarron: you're free to fix your patches as much as you want. I'm just saying it's not ready right now and you're asking for exception. | 16:43 |
jungleboyj | It was in good shape before it needed rebase. | 16:43 |
thingee | jungleboyj: thanks | 16:43 |
xyang | I can look at it too | 16:43 |
e0ne | thingee: it has +2 from me and jungleboyj before merge conflict. i'll review changes afrer rebase | 16:43 |
* DuncanT will certainly review as soon as something is up | 16:43 | |
jungleboyj | tbarron: I don't know, you aren't getting much support here. ;-) | 16:44 |
tbarron | I appreciate all the review offers | 16:44 |
* tbarron blushes | 16:44 | |
jungleboyj | Awww. | 16:44 |
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thingee | ok, if people can get this through while I'm flying back and no more back and forth on major issues, fine with me. | 16:44 |
thingee | given that it was 2 X +2 before rebase issues | 16:45 |
thingee | I think is fair | 16:45 |
DuncanT | thingee: ++ | 16:45 |
xyang | thingee: how many hours do we have?:) | 16:45 |
thingee | haha | 16:45 |
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hemna | :) | 16:45 |
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jungleboyj | :-) | 16:45 |
tbarron | thingee: thanks, I'll get some code up and make sure it passes all unit tests after rebase before I post it | 16:45 |
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jungleboyj | thingee: +2 | 16:45 |
tbarron | But this part is thin, so it shouldn't be too bad | 16:45 |
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tbarron | Thanks everyone! | 16:46 |
thingee | xyang: 7 hours | 16:46 |
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thingee | that's more than enough time | 16:46 |
xyang | :) | 16:46 |
kmartin | tbarron hoping thingee's flight is delayed | 16:46 |
e0ne | just fyi, queue in gates is more than ~100 | 16:46 |
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thingee | kmartin: :( | 16:46 |
tbarron | kmartin: +1 | 16:46 |
xyang | thingee: where are you now? | 16:46 |
tbarron | thingee: thanks, i really wouldn't wish that on anyone. | 16:46 |
jungleboyj | hemna: We are in control again! ;-) | 16:46 |
thingee | #agreed NFS backup patch has FFE | 16:46 |
thingee | ok next | 16:46 |
hemna | :P | 16:46 |
thingee | e0ne: hi | 16:46 |
tbarron | thingee: are you connecting through anywhere? just curious .. | 16:47 |
e0ne | hi | 16:47 |
thingee | tbarron: yeah | 16:47 |
hemna | jungleboyj, hush, dad hasn't left yet....don't blow our cover | 16:47 |
thingee | e0ne: lets talk shadow tables | 16:47 |
e0ne | thingee: i just want to get -2 from hemna. | 16:47 |
e0ne | +2 will be better:) | 16:47 |
hemna | lol | 16:47 |
thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131182/ | 16:47 |
e0ne | hemna: just a remainder that you put +1 for spec | 16:48 |
thingee | #agreed e0ne just wants a -2 | 16:48 |
e0ne | oops.. | 16:48 |
hemna | e0ne, yah understand | 16:48 |
* jungleboyj looks sheepish. | 16:48 | |
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hemna | but I changed my mind after actually looking at what a dev has to do to maintain it over time. | 16:48 |
e0ne | i'll take a look on oslo.db integration for shadow migrations for L | 16:48 |
hemna | :( | 16:48 |
e0ne | hemna: agree that sqlite downgrades looks ugly:( | 16:49 |
thingee | alright so what's going on here? | 16:49 |
hemna | basically it puts 2x the work on cinder devs for maintaining what turns into archived data for operators. | 16:49 |
hemna | I think that cost is too high, IMO | 16:49 |
e0ne | hemna: it's a very reasonable point. | 16:50 |
morganfainberg | hemna, this is regarding a SQL schema migration? | 16:50 |
hemna | I had proposed another approach, that's a bit different, but gives operators the ability to offload 'deleted' rows in much the same manner, w/o putting the burden on cinder devs to maintaining 2 schemas | 16:50 |
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e0ne | here is example: https://github.com/e0ne/cinder/commit/8ae973852fdf11b7c01f9e268361fa1d319846d4 | 16:50 |
hemna | instead of shadow tables, the concept is more like snapshot tables. | 16:50 |
thingee | ok, so are we sitting on this for L-1? Seems like there is still discussion going on | 16:51 |
hemna | if an operator wants to offload those deleted records, they run a new tool, that basically snapshots the existing schema as it is when the tool is run, then migrates out the deleted rows. | 16:51 |
hemna | there isn't any thing for a cinder dev to do on a patch by patch basis | 16:51 |
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hemna | I'd like to at least have the chance to talk about this approach before we go with the current shadow tables approach. | 16:52 |
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hemna | unfortunately it's late in the K timeframe. :( | 16:52 |
morganfainberg | hemna, fwiw, it looks like the no-downward migrations x-project spec is going to be approved next week. operators are saying they wouldn't perform a schema downgrade. they'd snap-shot and roll back | 16:52 |
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morganfainberg | based on feedback from the ops-meetup thing | 16:52 |
hemna | morganfainberg, do we have a url for that spec. I'm unfamiliar with it. | 16:52 |
morganfainberg | hemna, | 16:52 |
morganfainberg | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152337/5/specs/no-downward-sql-migration.rst | 16:52 |
thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152337/ | 16:52 |
hemna | I presume it's another approach to dealing with rows that are soft deleted ? | 16:53 |
DuncanT | hemna: The problem with that approach is what you do with existing data is shadow tables once the schema changes | 16:53 |
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hemna | or just removing the idea of downward migrations ? | 16:53 |
morganfainberg | hemna, removing the concept of downward migrations | 16:53 |
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thingee | morganfainberg: +1 | 16:53 |
hemna | DuncanT, when the schema changes between runs of the tool, you get new schema tables instead. | 16:53 |
e0ne | morganfainberg: +1. db backups works better | 16:54 |
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-sendak.freenode.net- [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp | 16:55 | |
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morganfainberg | maybe that x-project spec will make your lives lots and lots better | 16:55 |
hemna | IMO and puts more of a burden on us for reviews and unit tests | 16:55 |
e0ne | 5min reminder | 16:55 |
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* morganfainberg wanders back off to let you guys get back to meeting things :) | 16:55 | |
hemna | sorrison, I hate to say this, but can I -2 the shadow tables patch and bring this up in Vancouver ? | 16:55 |
hemna | so. | 16:56 |
thingee | five minute warning | 16:56 |
hemna | *sigh* | 16:56 |
jungleboyj | :-) | 16:56 |
e0ne | hemna: sure. it's reasonable | 16:56 |
hemna | if everyone else things shadow tables is fine as is, then I'll let it go | 16:56 |
jungleboyj | hemna: +1 | 16:56 |
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smcginnis | hemna: +1 | 16:56 |
jungleboyj | I think discussing in Vancouver is a good idea. | 16:56 |
e0ne | i've got very short queation | 16:56 |
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hemna | e0ne, shoot | 16:57 |
DuncanT | hemna: Your alternative approach sounds reasonable, and worth waiting for | 16:57 |
thingee | #agreed FFE for shadow tables declined. We'll discuss further at the next summit | 16:57 |
e0ne | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/157441/ - rebases, -1 from CI becouse of soume issue with infra | 16:57 |
thingee | denied | 16:57 |
thingee | whatever | 16:57 |
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thingee | e0ne: sorry about that | 16:57 |
e0ne | will we merge it? | 16:57 |
e0ne | it's about moving to oslo.log | 16:57 |
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hemna | ok -2 it is. sorry e0ne. Thanks for the effort. lets work together and do something for L. | 16:58 |
e0ne | we desided on a prev meeting to merge it right after FF | 16:58 |
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jungleboyj | e0ne: Yes, I think that is still the plan. | 16:58 |
e0ne | hemna: it's ok | 16:58 |
thingee | e0ne: I think for big patches like this it makes sense around this time, as DuncanT requested | 16:58 |
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thingee | alright I got a plane to catch | 16:59 |
thingee | thanks everyone for the discussions | 16:59 |
e0ne | thingee: thanks | 16:59 |
jungleboyj | e0ne: So, lets get that rebased and in. | 16:59 |
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thingee | expect an email from me on CI's in Cinder on the mailing list | 16:59 |
e0ne | jungleboyj: it's rebased | 16:59 |
jungleboyj | e0ne: Sweet. I will look today then. | 16:59 |
DuncanT | e0ne: Recheck? | 16:59 |
e0ne | jungleboyj: CI failed. waiting for recheck finished | 17:00 |
thingee | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
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jungleboyj | e0ne: Ok, will keep an eye on it. | 17:00 |
thingee | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
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jungleboyj | No, really endmeeting. :-) | 17:01 |
e0ne | great! thanks everyone for feedback | 17:01 |
thingee | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
thingee | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
e0ne | :) | 17:01 |
thingee | >.< | 17:01 |
thingee | I got a plane to catch dang it | 17:01 |
e0ne | let's continue:) | 17:01 |
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jungleboyj | :-_ | 17:01 |
jungleboyj | thingee: Fly safe. | 17:01 |
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thingee | thanks | 17:01 |
thingee | #endmeeting | 17:02 |
thingee | ok that's four times now. what the heck | 17:02 |
thingee | jeblair: not sure if you can force the bot to endmeeting? :) | 17:02 |
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jungleboyj | Something weird was going on with IRC during the meeting. Wonder if it got messed up. | 17:03 |
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thingee | jeblair: got a plane to catch and don't want to leave the meeting room like this | 17:03 |
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thingee | #endmeeting | 17:04 |
jeblair | thingee: ack, catch your plane :) | 17:04 |
geguileo | thingee: Since 60 minutes have passed since the start anyone should be able to do #endmeeting | 17:04 |
geguileo | #endmeeting | 17:04 |
jeblair | i think the meetbot restarted and lost state :( | 17:04 |
thingee | doh | 17:05 |
thingee | ok, is it fine for me to go? :) I need to get to the airport and stuff | 17:05 |
jeblair | thingee: yes, go! i'll take care of it :) | 17:05 |
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thingee | jeblair: thanks! | 17:05 |
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geguileo | thingee: Safe trip! | 17:05 |
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e0ne | #startmeeting | 17:05 |
openstack | e0ne: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 17:05 |
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e0ne | #endmeeting | 17:05 |
e0ne | hm.. startmeeting works... | 17:06 |
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jeblair | yes, there is no meeting in progress | 17:06 |
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asalkeld | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 11 20:00:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is asalkeld. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
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skraynev_ | hehe today it works ;) | 20:00 |
zaneb | \o/ | 20:00 |
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spzala | Hi | 20:01 |
stevebaker | /o\ | 20:01 |
shardy | o/ | 20:01 |
BillArnold | hi | 20:01 |
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KarolynChambers | hi | 20:01 |
pas-ha | o/ | 20:02 |
asalkeld | #topic Adding items to the agenda | 20:02 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
asalkeld | so far we have #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda | 20:02 |
skraynev_ | I have added one | 20:02 |
Tango|2 | Hi | 20:02 |
asalkeld | hi Tango|2 | 20:03 |
asalkeld | nothing else? | 20:03 |
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asalkeld | #topic run up to kilo release | 20:04 |
*** openstack changes topic to "run up to kilo release (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:04 | |
asalkeld | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 20:04 |
asalkeld | (March 19 cut off for features),lets run though what we can get in. | 20:04 |
asalkeld | that's one week | 20:04 |
asalkeld | afaiks | 20:04 |
skraynev_ | time for hard work | 20:05 |
asalkeld | and we got a *lot* to get in | 20:05 |
asalkeld | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/kilo-3 | 20:05 |
asalkeld | has anyone seen new progress from tags and breakpoints? | 20:05 |
stevebaker | hey, everything in code review | 20:05 |
shardy | asalkeld: yes, I've been testing the latest breakpoint patches today | 20:06 |
zaneb | asalkeld: good progress on breakpoints (hooks) | 20:06 |
shardy | the heat one is very close IMO | 20:06 |
zaneb | I'm reviewing at the moment | 20:06 |
asalkeld | ok, cool | 20:06 |
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shardy | heatclient needs a bit more work, I assume shadower is on that already | 20:06 |
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zaneb | shardy: agree. I think it should land this week | 20:06 |
inc0 | any outstanding patches which will affect db schema? | 20:06 |
zaneb | (the Heat one that is, not the heatclient one) | 20:07 |
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mspreitz | hi | 20:07 |
asalkeld | inc0: there are still ~ 3 or 4 convergence patches, tho' smaller | 20:07 |
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zaneb | inc0: pretty sure there are, yes. but all the ones I know are for convergence | 20:07 |
asalkeld | we still have convergence, olso versioned objects, keystone resources, tags and breakpoints | 20:08 |
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asalkeld | stevebaker: you about? | 20:08 |
stevebaker | yes | 20:08 |
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asalkeld | what's the state of you signalling | 20:08 |
asalkeld | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/software-config-swift-signal | 20:08 |
stevebaker | keystone resources are in contrib, so surely they are not subject to feature freeze | 20:08 |
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asalkeld | stevebaker: as long as they don't effect the string freeze | 20:09 |
skraynev_ | asalkeld: also Mistral resources | 20:09 |
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asalkeld | skraynev_: yeah phew that's right | 20:09 |
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stevebaker | asalkeld: hmm, is i18n applied to contrib? It probably shouldn't be | 20:09 |
asalkeld | stevebaker: honestly not sure | 20:10 |
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asalkeld | stevebaker: is software-config-swift-signal done? | 20:10 |
stevebaker | asalkeld: everything in heat has landed for software-config-trigger and swift signalling. Review on this related heatclient change is needed though https://review.openstack.org/#/c/160240/ | 20:11 |
asalkeld | ok, that's right | 20:11 |
asalkeld | say do we offically use heatclient blueprints? | 20:11 |
asalkeld | there are some | 20:12 |
asalkeld | they look forgotten | 20:12 |
asalkeld | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-heatclient | 20:12 |
stevebaker | occasionally. I'd rather use feature bugs | 20:12 |
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asalkeld | yeah, i'd rather not use them | 20:12 |
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asalkeld | so zaneb have you looked at the convergence reviews today? | 20:13 |
asalkeld | any major issues? | 20:13 |
zaneb | not today | 20:13 |
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asalkeld | 6am for me, just got up | 20:14 |
stevebaker | Is there a way of knowing which is the highest priority convergence reviews required other than blueprint priority? | 20:14 |
zaneb | I don't think it matters whether those patches land before FF | 20:14 |
asalkeld | schema changes | 20:14 |
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asalkeld | zaneb: there is a string freeze | 20:14 |
skraynev_ | zaneb: could you please take a look on my answers / question for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/161306/ | 20:14 |
skraynev_ | if you have a minute ;) | 20:15 |
asalkeld | so we *could* commit with commented out logs:-O | 20:15 |
zaneb | asalkeld: yeah, we may have to stop landing stuff between FF and RC | 20:15 |
inc0 | I've taken a look now - I can't see anything affecting my patches if I haven't miss anything | 20:15 |
asalkeld | inc0: you should be able to get in stack and template | 20:15 |
zaneb | but it's not like convergence is going to be a working thing in Kilo either way | 20:15 |
shardy | zaneb: you mean it's too late to land anything amounting to useful, so we may as well wait until we branch? | 20:15 |
shardy | ok, cool | 20:16 |
zaneb | yes | 20:16 |
asalkeld | there is some more resource stuff | 20:16 |
inc0 | asalkeld, its already ready....before k3 I'd love to have Resource as well, as its critical object | 20:16 |
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zaneb | I mean, if we can land stuff safely, then by all means land it (even during FF) | 20:16 |
inc0 | I think if we are careful, given resource and stack objects lands, we should be good with database compatibility for upgrade k->l | 20:17 |
asalkeld | zaneb: you not worried about string freeze? | 20:17 |
asalkeld | i guess bugs change strings | 20:17 |
zaneb | asalkeld: we should take that into account when landing stuff | 20:17 |
shardy | IMO we shouldn't be landing convergence rearchitecting during FF | 20:17 |
zaneb | some things should definitely not land after FF/SF and before the branch | 20:18 |
asalkeld | only minor things | 20:18 |
zaneb | other things probably can, so long as they are not called anywhere | 20:18 |
zaneb | don't add strings | 20:18 |
zaneb | &c. | 20:18 |
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asalkeld | i am ok with that | 20:18 |
zaneb | no db migrations during that period, obvs | 20:19 |
asalkeld | we won't be too long out of business | 20:19 |
zaneb | (but new tables might be ok) | 20:19 |
shardy | Ok, providing we're not making structural changes to existing code then fair enough | 20:19 |
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asalkeld | we all good with this topic? | 20:20 |
zaneb | +1 | 20:20 |
shardy | +1 | 20:20 |
asalkeld | #topic Thoughts on spec for balancing scaling groups across AZs | 20:20 |
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*** openstack changes topic to "Thoughts on spec for balancing scaling groups across AZs (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:20 | |
asalkeld | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105907/ | 20:20 |
KarolynChambers | Hi, we have added comments to address some of thequestions with this, so wondering on people's thoughts | 20:21 |
mspreitz | not some, all | 20:21 |
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asalkeld | KarolynChambers: it's been a while since i looked at that | 20:21 |
KarolynChambers | wanted to get it on the radar again so to speak | 20:22 |
stevebaker | KarolynChambers, mspreitz: Would this mean implementing an az scheduler in heat? | 20:23 |
mspreitz | that's a pretty heavy weight wording for what we have in mind | 20:23 |
zaneb | all of my context on this got paged out :/ | 20:23 |
mspreitz | we propose a simple counting scheme | 20:23 |
inc0 | stevebaker, or using gantt:) but I'm more concerned about having to implement logic which will ensure that volume will be in same az as instacne...for example | 20:23 |
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asalkeld | mspreitz: KarolynChambers it might be better to raise after branching when we can give it proper time | 20:23 |
inc0 | and all that stuff | 20:24 |
asalkeld | we are all super focused on kilo | 20:24 |
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mspreitz | inc0: deliberately not making Heat into holistic scheduler here | 20:24 |
asalkeld | it's not long away | 20:24 |
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zaneb | inc0: there is a way to do that, you use get_attr on the server to supply the AZ to the volume | 20:24 |
mspreitz | zaneb: problem is not really that complex. Scaling group has homogenous members | 20:25 |
mspreitz | all we propose is that heat counts members in each az | 20:25 |
pas-ha | mspreitz, I wonder what's the plan when a given AZ refuses an instance (no valid host found)? | 20:26 |
inc0 | well, sure, its nothing that can't be solved. | 20:26 |
stevebaker | mspreitz: but heat is making placement decisions based on some algorithm (albeit a simple one). We've been deferring getting into this area until gantt is available to consume | 20:26 |
inc0 | pas-ha, I guess CREATE_ERROR -> same as now if nova throws | 20:26 |
mspreitz | we can not defer to gantt, it has no interface for choosing which group member to remove | 20:26 |
mspreitz | on scale down | 20:26 |
mspreitz | inc0: yes, proposal here is very simple | 20:27 |
pas-ha | inc0, but then the point of balancing is fainting | 20:27 |
mspreitz | well, proposal is vague on that point, initial impl is simple | 20:27 |
mspreitz | proposal is vague, allows impl to try again elsewhere | 20:27 |
shardy | Does anyone know if e.g Neutron has full support for Availability Zones? | 20:27 |
asalkeld | not sure shardy | 20:28 |
inc0 | I don't think so | 20:28 |
mspreitz | shardy: not relevant | 20:28 |
inc0 | network node is still az-agnostic | 20:28 |
mspreitz | we are just looking for a way for heat to make AZ choice that eventually gets to whatever template author cares it to | 20:28 |
inc0 | but I agree with mspreitz - it will provide some measure of safety without too much problems I guess | 20:28 |
shardy | mspreitz: so if you can't have per-AZ l3 networks, what happens when an AZ goes down containing the Neutron services? | 20:28 |
inc0 | if we keep this thing naive | 20:28 |
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inc0 | shardy, is that our problems or nova's?:) | 20:29 |
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shardy | adding just instance support for the AWS resource kinda makes sense, but folks want to scale stacks containing more than just instances with the native resources | 20:29 |
inc0 | or neutrons | 20:29 |
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mspreitz | shardy: when an AZ goes down it is entirely unavailable of course, when the impl graduates to handling refusals it will naturally cover that | 20:30 |
shardy | inc0: I guess I'm just asking if the feature will be crippled die to being nova-centric that's all | 20:30 |
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shardy | s/die/due | 20:30 |
mspreitz | Nova is not the only thing that knows AZ | 20:30 |
mspreitz | Cinder does too | 20:30 |
mspreitz | but that is not critical here | 20:30 |
mspreitz | the idea is that template author applies this only where relevant | 20:30 |
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shardy | mspreitz: Ok, I'm just trying to understand the gaps, given that we don't place any restrictions on what resources can be scaled out | 20:30 |
mspreitz | shardy: OK, let me do case analysis | 20:31 |
stevebaker | I guess that is up to the user | 20:31 |
zaneb | shardy: I don't see how that's our problem | 20:31 |
mspreitz | case 1: scaling group of OS::Nova::Server or Cinder volume --- clear to all, I suppose | 20:31 |
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mspreitz | case 2: scaling group of atomic resource that does not support AZ - user does not ask for balancing across AZ | 20:32 |
mspreitz | case 3: scaling group of stack - template author propagates AZ param to relevant resources, recurse on the case analysis | 20:32 |
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inc0 | well, I for one think this is nice feature to be added, but its Liberty anyway | 20:33 |
shardy | mspreitz: I guess the question is, do we bear any responsibility to communicate to the user if the scaled unit is only partially balanced over AZs | 20:33 |
shardy | maybe we don't care, and we just document known limitations | 20:33 |
mspreitz | The user can already query that info, albeit not very conveniently | 20:33 |
mspreitz | adding convenient query would be a nice add | 20:33 |
pas-ha | as far as I understood user chooses herself what resources in a nested stack to pas the az param, so user is aware of what is balanced | 20:34 |
mspreitz | right | 20:35 |
mspreitz | but question is how does user know results | 20:35 |
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asalkeld | ok, mspreitz it looks like people don't have a big problem with the spec | 20:35 |
asalkeld | just minor questions | 20:35 |
pas-ha | an implicit output, mapping resource names to az's | 20:35 |
mspreitz | On querying results, I think that can/should be addressed as a later add | 20:35 |
asalkeld | can we handle as normal? and attack it in L? | 20:36 |
pas-ha | like OS::StackID | 20:36 |
mspreitz | OK, actually, we could do that via attribute | 20:36 |
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mspreitz | asalkeld: pls clarify what "it" | 20:36 |
asalkeld | the blueprint | 20:36 |
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pas-ha | spec and imlementation | 20:36 |
asalkeld | (as in do it) | 20:36 |
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mspreitz | Karolyn is closer to driving need now, I think | 20:37 |
mspreitz | Karolyn, delay to L OK? | 20:37 |
asalkeld | mspreitz: you could also add to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-heat-sessions | 20:37 |
mspreitz | IMHO scheduler hints are higher priority | 20:37 |
stevebaker | KarolynChambers: I've +1ed, but would like an evaluation of gantt in the Alternatives section | 20:37 |
inc0 | mspreitz, it would be hard for it to land in kilo as there is 1 week left and bp isnt merged even;) | 20:38 |
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KarolynChambers | stevebaker: okay, I will look at gantt | 20:38 |
mspreitz | stevebaker: there *is* an evaluation in the Alternatives of defering to other scheduler | 20:38 |
asalkeld | lets move on | 20:38 |
inc0 | also clarification how to solve resource groups with az-agnostic resources would be nice | 20:38 |
mspreitz | Gantt has no interface for choosing which to delete on scale down | 20:38 |
mspreitz | inc0: that is not a problem | 20:39 |
stevebaker | mspreitz: yet | 20:39 |
mspreitz | If Gantt *did* have an interface for choosing which to delete, Heat would need to invoke it.... individuals are identified in the generated template | 20:39 |
asalkeld | mspreitz: what stevebaker is suggesting is should we work with gantt to add some of functionality there | 20:40 |
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asalkeld | and look into that | 20:40 |
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asalkeld | how would that work, would it be better | 20:40 |
mspreitz | akalkeld: that does not get this issue entirely out of Heat, generated template identifies individuals | 20:40 |
asalkeld | could others, not using heat benefit | 20:40 |
asalkeld | mspreitz: totally we would still need some work in heat | 20:41 |
mspreitz | OK, so we are on to L for this. | 20:41 |
asalkeld | #topic Documentation options for stack lifecycle scheduler hints | 20:41 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Documentation options for stack lifecycle scheduler hints (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:41 | |
asalkeld | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130294/ | 20:41 |
stevebaker | yes, that is what I am suggesting. Or use gantt for initial placement, and logic in heat for removal. I just want to see that analysis. The Alternatives just talks about nova. My idealised notion of gantt is that it is a completely generic service for putting $things in $places | 20:41 |
KarolynChambers | i think people were oka ywith the code but asalked you had a comment in the spec about documentation being needed | 20:41 |
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asalkeld | KarolynChambers: looking - it's been a while | 20:42 |
KarolynChambers | what are the options for documentation? more documentation in the spec? or is there some other place to document? | 20:42 |
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asalkeld | heat/doc/source is one option | 20:43 |
KarolynChambers | do people have a preference for where you'd like to see? | 20:43 |
asalkeld | KarolynChambers: i am concerned with hooks as 1. devs need to know what there are | 20:43 |
KarolynChambers | understand | 20:44 |
asalkeld | so they don't regress | 20:44 |
asalkeld | and a user might want to use them too | 20:44 |
asalkeld | so what is it for and how do i use it | 20:44 |
pas-ha | and how to set it up | 20:44 |
asalkeld | yip | 20:44 |
KarolynChambers | agreed | 20:44 |
mspreitz | well, the usage we have in mind is not something users would be doing | 20:45 |
mspreitz | it is for operators | 20:45 |
asalkeld | mspreitz: i more mean operartors | 20:45 |
asalkeld | KarolynChambers: you happy with that? | 20:45 |
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asalkeld | anyone got better idea for docs? | 20:45 |
skraynev_ | nope | 20:46 |
asalkeld | KarolynChambers: topic done? | 20:46 |
KarolynChambers | yes | 20:46 |
KarolynChambers | thank you | 20:46 |
asalkeld | np | 20:46 |
asalkeld | #topic Work to get WSGI services runnable inside Apache/nginx | 20:46 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Work to get WSGI services runnable inside Apache/nginx (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:46 | |
pas-ha | let's have them at least somewhere first, then decide what is the best place for them | 20:46 |
skraynev_ | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/057359.html | 20:46 |
skraynev_ | currently keystone and other services want to deprecate eventlet and use apache for these purposes | 20:47 |
skraynev_ | do we want be in this tream? | 20:47 |
inc0 | uhh... | 20:47 |
skraynev_ | and do the same thing in L ? | 20:47 |
asalkeld | skraynev_: sure | 20:47 |
asalkeld | it's quite easy | 20:48 |
inc0 | this increases comlexity of installation - adds new component | 20:48 |
stevebaker | for heat-api*, sure | 20:48 |
zaneb | this only applies to the API though, of course | 20:48 |
pas-ha | yes, api only | 20:48 |
inc0 | but I guess if ks will do it anyway... | 20:48 |
asalkeld | inc0: we can have it as an option for starters | 20:48 |
zaneb | +1 | 20:49 |
stevebaker | imagine a cloud with every service on a single IP, port 80 | 20:49 |
asalkeld | and still have a binary for things like devstack | 20:49 |
pas-ha | or a fance checker that there is suitable backend available :) | 20:49 |
skraynev_ | stevebaker: dreams :) | 20:49 |
stevebaker | well, 443 | 20:49 |
skraynev_ | dreams - > reality | 20:49 |
asalkeld | skraynev_: seems like a small spec | 20:50 |
pas-ha | +1 | 20:50 |
asalkeld | #topic open discussion | 20:50 |
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:50 | |
skraynev_ | ok, so if all agree with this I will add bp and spec for L. | 20:50 |
inc0 | how does this work with asyncio idea? | 20:50 |
asalkeld | inc0: hope that doesn't happen:-O | 20:50 |
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stevebaker | inc0: that is something we can consider for heat-engine | 20:50 |
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inc0 | stevebaker, do we really want to support 2 types of runtime?;) | 20:51 |
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asalkeld | inc0: that's the idea | 20:51 |
stevebaker | inc0: I said consider, not adopt | 20:51 |
inc0 | but meh, apache will be easy enough | 20:51 |
inc0 | if it helps, why not | 20:51 |
asalkeld | api use apache, engines/workers use "something" | 20:51 |
pas-ha | not sure why, as devstack would have apache available anyway for keystone | 20:52 |
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asalkeld | eventlet/fork/threads | 20:52 |
stevebaker | worker | 20:52 |
stevebaker | s | 20:52 |
pas-ha | and it already has it for horizon | 20:52 |
inc0 | my point is rather...why do it?;) | 20:52 |
zaneb | inc0: read the thread | 20:52 |
asalkeld | inc0: it also give operators some options | 20:53 |
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asalkeld | and easy to do | 20:53 |
pas-ha | apache/nginx is a proven production grade concurrent web server, better than eventlet-driven python | 20:53 |
stevebaker | eventlet has issues, and at least for APIs moving to web servers is an easy solution | 20:53 |
inc0 | fair enough | 20:53 |
inc0 | btw, open topic: heat memory consumption | 20:54 |
inc0 | shardy mentioned it today, might be good to take a look | 20:54 |
asalkeld | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-heat-sessions | 20:54 |
asalkeld | ? | 20:54 |
asalkeld | are we using more memory than normal? | 20:54 |
shardy | yeah, everyone I did some testing today of a TripleO seed with multiple workers | 20:54 |
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shardy | heat-engine with 4 workers peaked at over 2G memory usage :-O | 20:55 |
shardy | worse, even, than nova-api | 20:55 |
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zaneb | that's... a lot | 20:55 |
asalkeld | shardy: i suspect root_stack is somewhat to blame | 20:55 |
shardy | if anyone has existing thoughts on steps to improve that, it'd be good to start enumerating them as bugs and working through | 20:55 |
inc0 | yeah...and template validation | 20:55 |
asalkeld | we need to kill root_stack | 20:56 |
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shardy | asalkeld: yeah, I'm sure you're right | 20:56 |
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inc0 | or try to offload something to db | 20:56 |
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asalkeld | that will load every stack in every stack (if that makes sense) | 20:57 |
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shardy | Shall I just raise a "heat-engine is a memory hog" bug, and we can capture ideas there on how to fix it? | 20:57 |
shardy | also, does Rally help with quantifying such things, or only performance? | 20:57 |
asalkeld | shardy: as a task to make specific bugs | 20:57 |
inc0 | or lets talk in Vancouver? | 20:57 |
asalkeld | inc0: it's really an investigation isn't it | 20:58 |
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shardy | inc0: I'm not sure it really warrants summit time, we just need to do the analysis and fix the code ;) | 20:58 |
asalkeld | someone needs to figure out what all the problems are | 20:58 |
asalkeld | loading templates and files into mem | 20:58 |
inc0 | profiler for the rescue;) | 20:58 |
asalkeld | 2 mins ... | 20:59 |
asalkeld | ok, that's mostly it. Thanks all! | 21:00 |
skraynev_ | bb | 21:00 |
asalkeld | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
skraynev_ | good night | 21:00 |
openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 11 21:00:18 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-03-11-20.00.html | 21:00 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-03-11-20.00.txt | 21:00 |
stevebaker | we had (have) an experimental rally ci job. I wonder if we could get it to collect memory stats | 21:00 |
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openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-03-11-20.00.log.html | 21:00 |
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