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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 24 08:00:19 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | raise your hand if you are here for the third-party meeting | 08:00 |
| lennyb | Hi | 08:00 |
| anteaya | hello lennyb | 08:00 |
| anteaya | have we worked together yet? | 08:01 |
| anteaya | I'm not sure I know your nickname | 08:01 |
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| lennyb | anteaya, yeah, I accidentally added Nova CI for Mellanox as voting one | 08:02 |
| anteaya | ah | 08:02 |
| anteaya | thanks for attending a meeting | 08:03 |
| anteaya | how is mellanox coming along? | 08:03 |
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| lennyb | anteaya, btw, we sent an email asking to add our Nova CI as non-voting, and did not receive any answer. | 08:04 |
| anteaya | right | 08:04 |
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| anteaya | I'm not surprised | 08:04 |
| anteaya | I had advised nurit to attend a nova meeting to ask | 08:04 |
| anteaya | you sent an email during feature freeze time | 08:05 |
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| anteaya | I'm not suprised it was ignored | 08:05 |
| anteaya | I again suggest you attend the nova meeting | 08:05 |
| anteaya | and ask at the meeting | 08:05 |
| lennyb | I now, I attended to the meeting, but probably at the wrong hour. | 08:05 |
| anteaya | the nova meeting | 08:05 |
| anteaya | it alternates | 08:05 |
| lennyb | yeah, #openstack-nova | 08:05 |
| anteaya | no they meet in this channel | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | the #openstack-nova channel is their discussion channel | 08:06 |
| anteaya | when they meet they meet in this channel | 08:06 |
| lennyb | ah, I didnt know. I will look in the wiki for the "openning hours" | 08:06 |
| anteaya | do you know how to see all the meetings? | 08:06 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings | 08:07 |
| anteaya | this page has all our meetings | 08:07 |
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| anteaya | click on the link for openstack compute (nova) | 08:07 |
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| lennyb | thanks | 08:07 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#OpenStack_Compute_.28Nova.29 | 08:07 |
| anteaya | that takes you further down the page and more links | 08:08 |
| anteaya | which take you here | 08:08 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 08:08 |
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| anteaya | they have the agenda for last weeks meeting up | 08:08 |
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| anteaya | which means this weeks will be at the other time | 08:09 |
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| anteaya | make sense? | 08:10 |
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| lennyb | you mean, this Wednesday at 0400 UTC | 08:11 |
| lennyb | sorry, I got it | 08:12 |
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| anteaya | no | 08:12 |
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| anteaya | 1400 was last week's meeting | 08:13 |
| anteaya | this week's meeting is at the other time option | 08:13 |
| anteaya | 2100 | 08:13 |
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| anteaya | lennyb: can you see that? | 08:17 |
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| lennyb | anteaya, yes. thanks. | 08:19 |
| anteaya | and they meet Thursday's not Wednesday's | 08:19 |
| jordanP | hi, is there any topic currently being discussed, or can I ask a question here and now ? | 08:19 |
| lennyb | yeas, I saw. I was looking at nova third party ci meeting from https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#OpenStack_Compute_.28Nova.29 | 08:20 |
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| anteaya | jordanP: hi let's just finish with lennyb first | 08:21 |
| jordanP | anteaya, sure | 08:21 |
| anteaya | nova third party ci meeting? | 08:21 |
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| anteaya | nova doesn't have a third party ci meeting | 08:22 |
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| anteaya | lennyb: ? | 08:23 |
| lennyb | anteaya, you are correct. | 08:24 |
| anteaya | okay great | 08:24 |
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| anteaya | so what time and where is the next nova meeting? | 08:24 |
| anteaya | just so I am sure you understand | 08:24 |
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| lennyb | thursday 2100 utc #openstack-meeting. next week 16:00utc | 08:25 |
| anteaya | next week 1400 | 08:25 |
| anteaya | but you got this week's meeting day time and place accurate | 08:26 |
| anteaya | so well done | 08:26 |
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| anteaya | let's move onto jordanP's question | 08:26 |
| anteaya | jordanP: hello | 08:26 |
| anteaya | jordanP: please go ahead | 08:26 |
| lennyb | I am still young to learn new things :) | 08:26 |
| jordanP | right, so | 08:26 |
| anteaya | lennyb: good, keep sticking around and asking questions | 08:27 |
| jordanP | I've sent an email 4 days ago | 08:27 |
| jordanP | [third-party]Properly format the status message with gerrit trigger | 08:27 |
| jordanP | I don't know wheter you read it | 08:27 |
| anteaya | do you know how to link email posts? | 08:27 |
| anteaya | go to lists.openstack.org | 08:27 |
| jordanP | no, I don't | 08:27 |
| anteaya | find the list | 08:27 |
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| anteaya | read the archive find the link to the post | 08:28 |
| anteaya | post it here | 08:28 |
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| anteaya | can you do that now? | 08:28 |
| anteaya | then we can all see the post you want to discuss | 08:28 |
| jordanP | yep | 08:28 |
| anteaya | thanks | 08:28 |
| jordanP | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/059494.html | 08:28 |
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| jordanP | I'll leave you 2min, so can can just read :) | 08:28 |
| jordanP | the question is simple: what's your opinion :) | 08:29 |
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| anteaya | my opinion is that many people use zuul | 08:30 |
| anteaya | and those that don't are just beginning and don't have the confidence to speak up on the mailing list and reply to your post | 08:31 |
| anteaya | so if you are looking for replies to your post I don't expect you to get any | 08:31 |
| jordanP | I thought so... :) | 08:31 |
| anteaya | as for reformatting I think you should go ahead and see what you can accomplish | 08:31 |
| anteaya | and if you get anywhere post again to your own thread with your results | 08:32 |
| anteaya | and thanks for caring enough to try to improve the experience for developers | 08:32 |
| jordanP | IMO gerrit trigger is easy to setup, and looks less scary than zuul. Most of use are familiar with jenkins, so I think supporting gerrit trigger makes sense | 08:32 |
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| jordanP | my goal is to propose a patch to slightly change the regex used to "capture" the comments posted by third party CIs | 08:33 |
| jordanP | I'll see how it goes | 08:33 |
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| anteaya | that sounds like a good way forward | 08:36 |
| anteaya | thank you for being proactive here | 08:36 |
| anteaya | I'm not sure if you are used to open source workflow | 08:36 |
| anteaya | it seems that you are | 08:36 |
| anteaya | and unfortunately most folks in this space are not | 08:36 |
| anteaya | so the concept of replying to your email post is beyond them | 08:36 |
| anteaya | which is sad | 08:37 |
| anteaya | since you are doing everything right | 08:37 |
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| anteaya | thanks jordanP | 08:37 |
| jordanP | anteaya, sure. Thanks | 08:37 |
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| anteaya | thank you | 08:38 |
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| anteaya | anything more on your mind right now? | 08:38 |
| jordanP | me, no :) | 08:38 |
| anteaya | thanks for speaking up | 08:39 |
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| anteaya | lennyb: anything more you want to talk about right now? | 08:39 |
| lennyb | no. | 08:39 |
| anteaya | okay | 08:39 |
| anteaya | thanks | 08:39 |
| anteaya | I'll wait a few more minutes and see if anyone else shows up | 08:39 |
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| anteaya | you are welcome to stick around if you like but it is not required | 08:40 |
| lennyb | anteaya, is it easy/possible change gerrit account of CI ? | 08:40 |
| anteaya | lennyb: it is possible | 08:40 |
| anteaya | did you create it yourself? | 08:40 |
| anteaya | #link http://ci.openstack.org/third_party.html#creating-a-service-account | 08:41 |
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| lennyb | great, we would like to change Cinder CI gerrit account. It's not mine, but I want to associate it with email alias | 08:41 |
| anteaya | if you did follow these instructions to create the account you wish to change you have full access to the account and can do so | 08:41 |
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| anteaya | do you know if you created the account yourself as opposed to having the infra team create it for you | 08:42 |
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| lennyb | we created it ourself, I believe. | 08:42 |
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| anteaya | good | 08:43 |
| anteaya | then you can edit it to suit yourself | 08:43 |
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| anteaya | the only part you can't change is the gerrit username | 08:43 |
| anteaya | all else you can edit | 08:43 |
| anteaya | and you can do so yourself | 08:43 |
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| lennyb | ok, we want to change only email | 08:44 |
| anteaya | you can do that | 08:44 |
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| lennyb | jordanP, check this link http://ci.openstack.org/third_party.html#creating-a-service-account | 08:47 |
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| lennyb | jordanP, there is a section about jenkins gerrit trigger | 08:48 |
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| jordanP | lennyb, the problem is how the results are reported bad | 08:48 |
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| anteaya | lennyb: if you go to the top of the document, in the upper left corner there is a menu | 08:48 |
| jordanP | my setup works but there's a regex so that CI account appear on top in the Gerrit UI | 08:48 |
| anteaya | if you click a title on the menu you get a link to that section | 08:49 |
| anteaya | like this | 08:49 |
| anteaya | #link http://ci.openstack.org/third_party.html#the-jenkins-gerrit-trigger-plugin-way | 08:49 |
| jordanP | so that a code submiter knows easily if his patch broke a 3rd party driver | 08:49 |
| lennyb | anteaya, I see it, thanks. | 08:50 |
| anteaya | well the actual point of a third party ci is for the driver operator to pay attention which patches are not compatible with their driver | 08:50 |
| jordanP | atm, for my CI, one has to click on the "toggle CI" button at the bottom to see the results of my CI | 08:50 |
| anteaya | and review the patch and suggest a fix that will work with the driver | 08:50 |
| anteaya | jordanP: right | 08:50 |
| anteaya | because your ci is commenting not voting | 08:50 |
| jordanP | anteaya, I am not sure. for example here : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165214/ | 08:51 |
| anteaya | if your ci is stable and cinder agrees to allow you to vote verified on the patches your results will show up with the rest of the ci results | 08:51 |
| anteaya | jordanP: which is your ci | 08:51 |
| jordanP | some 3rd party CI are non-voting but they appear on the top left corner of the UI | 08:51 |
| jordanP | scality | 08:51 |
| anteaya | which are non-voting but appear in the top left corner? | 08:52 |
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| jordanP | anteaya, you have to click on the togger CI button to see it | 08:52 |
| anteaya | give me the name of a ci account and I'll check | 08:52 |
| jordanP | anteaya, top right, sorry | 08:52 |
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| anteaya | yes top right | 08:52 |
| anteaya | which system is non-voting but appears on the top right? | 08:52 |
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| jordanP | gate-rally-dsvm-cinder | 08:53 |
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| jordanP | but it's not 3rd party :) | 08:53 |
| anteaya | that is a job | 08:53 |
| anteaya | gate rally dsvm cinder is a job, not a ci account | 08:53 |
| jordanP | haha, I think you're right, it's just a non-voting issue | 08:53 |
| jordanP | which makes it a non-issue, I just have to ask the fine guys from the cinder team then | 08:54 |
| anteaya | right now on this patch, no systems are posting votes | 08:54 |
| jordanP | anteaya, arf okay, so how come some system are in the top right corner ? | 08:54 |
| anteaya | since you can see in the column marked verified only jenkins has a response | 08:54 |
| jordanP | yep | 08:55 |
| jordanP | in fact, it's not that important that my 3rd party CI vote, but I'd like to be listed in the top right corner.. | 08:55 |
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| anteaya | right | 08:56 |
| anteaya | and you are correct it is formatting | 08:56 |
| anteaya | the parser for that page looks for formatting in the comment | 08:56 |
| anteaya | if the comment format is the same is what jenkins posts it will put the results in the top right | 08:57 |
| anteaya | if it isn't it won't | 08:57 |
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| jordanP | yep, okay, it's good to have this confirmation | 08:57 |
| anteaya | and I was wrong, these systems are not currently able to vote | 08:58 |
| anteaya | they have to be listed in this group to be able to vote: https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/508,members | 08:58 |
| anteaya | I'll talk to thingee about that tomorrow | 08:58 |
| jordanP | anteaya, well I am not sure making 3rd party CI to vote is a gread idea | 08:58 |
| jordanP | it's too early | 08:58 |
| jordanP | imo | 08:59 |
| anteaya | jordanP: me either but that isn't my choice | 08:59 |
| jordanP | yep | 08:59 |
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| anteaya | it is my job to support the choices ptl's make | 08:59 |
| anteaya | so obviously I didn't do my job and tell him about this gerrit group | 08:59 |
| jordanP | I understand | 08:59 |
| anteaya | so I'll do that tomorrow | 08:59 |
| anteaya | thanks | 08:59 |
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| anteaya | and we are at time | 08:59 |
| anteaya | it has been a fun meeting | 09:00 |
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| anteaya | thanks lennyb and jordanP | 09:00 |
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| anteaya | nice to work with you | 09:00 |
| jordanP | thanks anteaya | 09:00 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 09:00 |
| jordanP | eeah anteaya :) | 09:00 |
| jordanP | yep | 09:00 |
| anteaya | :) | 09:00 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 09:00:32 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-24-08.00.html | 09:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-24-08.00.txt | 09:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-24-08.00.log.html | 09:00 |
| anteaya | #startmeeting nova-net-to-neutron-migration | 09:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 24 09:01:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_net_to_neutron_migration' | 09:01 |
| anteaya | hello | 09:01 |
| anteaya | so last week we agreed that more needed to be done in this space than just working on the patches | 09:01 |
| anteaya | mikal said that some work was underway to figure out what the next steps are | 09:02 |
| anteaya | and while I have seen a private email asking deployers for some notes of their setup | 09:02 |
| anteaya | I haven't seen anything in public yet | 09:02 |
| anteaya | which is unfortunate | 09:02 |
| anteaya | since it would be nice to have a new direction before calling a halt to the old one | 09:03 |
| anteaya | but seeing as I'm the only one here | 09:03 |
| anteaya | and obondarev has put in great effort but doesn't seem to be getting support right now | 09:03 |
| anteaya | it doesn't make sense to continue | 09:03 |
| obondarev | o/ | 09:03 |
| anteaya | I'm looking forward to hearing more, hopefully in the next week or two | 09:04 |
| anteaya | hi obondarev | 09:04 |
| anteaya | just making some notes | 09:04 |
| anteaya | have you any thoughts to share? | 09:04 |
| obondarev | anteaya: let me read the scroll.. | 09:04 |
| obondarev | anteaya: the only thought I have is that we are blocked by the lack of feedback/interest | 09:06 |
| anteaya | yes | 09:06 |
| anteaya | I agree | 09:06 |
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| anteaya | now that feature freeze has past perhaps we can figure out from people what they think we should do next | 09:06 |
| anteaya | so hopefully this week we might get some indication | 09:07 |
| anteaya | but yes, we don't have any right now | 09:07 |
| anteaya | obondarev: do you agree? | 09:07 |
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| obondarev | anteaya: yes | 09:07 |
| anteaya | I'm fine keeping the meeting open if we have something to talk about | 09:08 |
| anteaya | but if not I'm for closing it off and I can go back to bed | 09:08 |
| anteaya | what do you think? | 09:08 |
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| obondarev | anteaya: agree | 09:08 |
| anteaya | I will try to follow up with mikal and sdague this week and see if we can get some guidance here | 09:09 |
| anteaya | obondarev: I just want to say thank you | 09:09 |
| obondarev | anteaya: thanks | 09:09 |
| anteaya | so nice to work with people who show up | 09:09 |
| anteaya | :) | 09:09 |
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| anteaya | I really appreciate it | 09:09 |
| obondarev | anteaya: same for me :) | 09:09 |
| anteaya | :) | 09:09 |
| *** zz_ttrifonov is now known as ttrifonov | 09:09 | |
| anteaya | so I'll let you go now and we will talk again, if not this week then at next week's meeting | 09:10 |
| anteaya | enjoy your day obondarev | 09:10 |
| anteaya | see you are the neutron meeting in a few hours | 09:10 |
| anteaya | night | 09:10 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 09:10 |
| obondarev | anteaya: thanks, enjoy your sleep :)! | 09:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:10 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 09:10:23 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:10 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-03-24-09.01.html | 09:10 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-03-24-09.01.txt | 09:10 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-03-24-09.01.log.html | 09:10 |
| anteaya | obondarev: thanks | 09:10 |
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| mestery | yo | 13:59 |
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| xgerman | o/ | 13:59 |
| banix | Hi | 13:59 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 13:59 |
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| anteaya | o/ | 13:59 |
| yamamoto | hi | 13:59 |
| swamireddy | #startmeeting EC2-API | 13:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 24 13:59:55 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is swamireddy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:59 |
| yamahata | hello | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: EC2-API)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ec2_api' | 14:00 |
| mestery | swamireddy: Neutron meeting is now in this slot | 14:00 |
| armax | hello | 14:00 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:00 |
| swamireddy | ops | 14:00 |
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| mestery | swamireddy: Can you cancel the EC2 meeting? You must have the wrong channel. | 14:00 |
| swamireddy | sure....will end this meeting... | 14:00 |
| marun | hi | 14:00 |
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| mestery | swamireddy: Thanks! | 14:00 |
| swamireddy | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 14:00:43 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
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| rkukura | hi | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ec2_api/2015/ec2_api.2015-03-24-13.59.html | 14:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ec2_api/2015/ec2_api.2015-03-24-13.59.txt | 14:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ec2_api/2015/ec2_api.2015-03-24-13.59.log.html | 14:00 |
| luqas | o/ | 14:00 |
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| rackertom | o/ | 14:00 |
| sean-k-mooney | \o | 14:01 |
| mwang2__ | o/ | 14:01 |
| swamireddy | mestery: Is this meeting weekly one? | 14:01 |
| mestery | OK, lets get this packd neutron meeting started | 14:01 |
| mestery | swamireddy: bi-weekly in this slot | 14:01 |
| mestery | We rotate | 14:01 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 24 14:01:26 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:01 |
| ihrachyshka | o/ | 14:01 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:01 |
| anteaya | swamireddy: I don't see any listing for ec2-api meeting on the meeting page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings | 14:01 |
| mestery | #topic Announcements | 14:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| mestery | We're in the feature freeze now, trying to get ready to cut an RC1 | 14:02 |
| swamireddy | mestery: Thanks...will take the next week slot on this. Thanks ..sorry for confusion.. | 14:02 |
| mestery | We'll likely spend most of the meeting going over specs which are in RC1 | 14:02 |
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| mestery | #info RCs: April 9-23 | 14:02 |
| mestery | #info Kilo release: April 30 | 14:02 |
| mestery | So, lets move along since I think we'll need most of the time today. | 14:02 |
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| mestery | We'll circle back to bugs in a bit | 14:03 |
| mestery | #topic Kilo-RC1 | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kilo-RC1 (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:03 | |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/kilo-rc1 | 14:03 |
| swamireddy | anteaya: Yet to update here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/EC2API#Agenda | 14:03 |
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| bryan_att | #info Bryan Sullivan | 14:03 |
| mestery | bryan_att: I think you may be in the wrong meetiong, this is the neutron meeting | 14:03 |
| dougwig | O/ | 14:03 |
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| mestery | OK, lets walk through the specs we have in RC1 yet | 14:03 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/subnet-allocation | 14:03 |
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| mestery | salv-orlando: In lieu of carl_baldwin being here, this one looks like it's making some progress. | 14:04 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Do you think we can land this one in the RC yet? | 14:04 |
| mestery | armax: Any thoughts on this one as well? | 14:04 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: I need to find pavel_bondar | 14:04 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Ack | 14:04 |
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| salv-orlando | I need to sync up with him and rearrange the outstanding patches | 14:04 |
| armax | mestery: if I look at the list of patches pendind | 14:05 |
| armax | pending | 14:05 |
| armax | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/subnet-allocation,n,z | 14:05 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: This is for subnet pool, are you thinking pluggalbe ipam? | 14:05 |
| armax | which ones are deemed critical in order to have a semi-functional feature? | 14:05 |
| armax | the picture doesn’t look good | 14:05 |
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| mestery | armax: Agree, wish carl_baldwin was here to help answer that :( | 14:05 |
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| mestery | OK, I've pinged carl, lets move on and circle back if he joins us in a bit. | 14:06 |
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| mestery | carl_baldwin: There you are! | 14:06 |
| johnbelamaric | armax: subnet allocation from a subnet pool is the most critical in there | 14:06 |
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| mestery | carl_baldwin: We're talking subnet pools and the chances of it merging in RC1 | 14:06 |
| carl_baldwin | mestery: hi, sorry to be late | 14:06 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: We need your expertise here :) | 14:06 |
| salv-orlando | armax, mestery: i have the full picture anyway | 14:06 |
| salv-orlando | it's just that I need to speak with Pavel to check whether we can make it or not | 14:07 |
| * carl_baldwin reading back | 14:07 | |
| mestery | salv-orlando: thanks! | 14:07 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: IPAM is dependent on subnet pools? | 14:07 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: nope | 14:07 |
| johnbelamaric | salv-orlando: last i spoke with Pavel we expect to be able to make it | 14:07 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Ack | 14:07 |
| salv-orlando | I think subnet pools is fairly stable and should be able to complete | 14:07 |
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| salv-orlando | It's just not yet clear to me how long we are before removing the wip on the allocation patch | 14:08 |
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| mestery | salv-orlando: carl_baldwin may have an idea there | 14:08 |
| carl_baldwin | It is getting close. | 14:08 |
| salv-orlando | especially now that we've agreed to not have a feature for wildcarded gateway and allocation pools | 14:08 |
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| salv-orlando | mestery: rtidwell might too, but he's not around | 14:08 |
| carl_baldwin | There are just a few minor things that can be cleaned up this week. | 14:09 |
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| mestery | carl_baldwin salv-orlando: Lets assume this one will make it then, and we can circle back next week if it still looks iffy, Sound ok? | 14:09 |
| carl_baldwin | rtidwell has been travelling | 14:09 |
| carl_baldwin | mestery: Yes. | 14:09 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move on | 14:09 |
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| mestery | NExt up are the IPAM BPs | 14:09 |
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| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-ipam | 14:10 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/reference-ipam-driver | 14:10 |
| mestery | salv-orlando carl_baldwin: Back to you guys again here :) | 14:10 |
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| salv-orlando | so | 14:11 |
| * salv-orlando one second please... | 14:11 | |
| mestery | salv-orlando: no worries | 14:12 |
| salv-orlando | the situation is fairly simple. We need to tweak again the interface | 14:12 |
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| ihrachyshka | :D | 14:12 |
| salv-orlando | in order to allow the driver to accept contextes. I and carl_baldwin agree this should not be how it is done, so we would like to make this a transient change | 14:12 |
| johnbelamaric | Earlier today pavel_bondar indicated he has resolved most test failures except OpenContrail CI - with the fix discussed on the ML | 14:12 |
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| carl_baldwin | salv-orlando: +1 | 14:13 |
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| johnbelamaric | that's the fix i mean | 14:13 |
| salv-orlando | now I think we can have code complete by the end of the week | 14:13 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Ack on that | 14:13 |
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| salv-orlando | with an optional driver, and an "experimental" interface - this would be the situation for Kilo | 14:14 |
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| salv-orlando | it is now up to the core team to decide whether to allow this in Kilo or not | 14:14 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Sounds tenuous here, we'd have to mark this as experimental maybe? | 14:14 |
| salv-orlando | I and carl_baldwin do not have a vote here obviously ;) | 14:14 |
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| salv-orlando | mestery: yes definetely experimental. We probably manage to add a non-voting job using the ipam driver before the end of kilo, but I am not able to guarantee that now, because this also depends on what infra-core thinks of this | 14:15 |
| salv-orlando | and I've not pinged them yet about it | 14:15 |
| mestery | This all sounds like it will be hard to land in Kilo to be honest salv-orlando. | 14:15 |
| ihrachyshka | salv-orlando, will we have a WARNING PLEASE DON'T USE IT in neutron.conf? | 14:15 |
| carl_baldwin | mestery: I think we were headed toward making it experimental weeks ago when we decided not to replace the baked in IPAM yet. | 14:15 |
| markmcclain | so I do think we have to be careful with experimental things.. our track record with experimental items has not been steller | 14:15 |
| salv-orlando | ihrachyshka: see, I have to admit one thing | 14:16 |
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| salv-orlando | in the past I've deferred work items in the same conditions as this one | 14:16 |
| mestery | Another option is to move this out of kilo, take the time to fix all of this, and land it early in liberty | 14:16 |
| salv-orlando | as a core reviewer I mean | 14:16 |
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| dougwig | to reiterate what mark said, if we ship it experimental, and it's buggy, with our historical reputation, i don't think that experimental tag will mean much. | 14:16 |
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| salv-orlando | so this is why I'm saying - we can have the work done, and then it's up to you to judge. I do not want to influence in any direction, but I do not feel confident enough to say "here your pluggable IPAM driver, the code is reliable and you can use it without any worry" | 14:17 |
| anteaya | salv-orlando: what opinion are you looking for from infra? | 14:17 |
| ihrachyshka | what's the benefit of merging it now instead of early L? except obvious contributor frustration | 14:17 |
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| mestery | ihrachyshka: Contributor frustration isn't a benefit in fact, but I see what you mean there :) | 14:17 |
| salv-orlando | anteaya: adding yet another non-voting job for neutron. I'm not sure you might be ok with spending another node. | 14:17 |
| ihrachyshka | mestery, lol | 14:17 |
| johnbelamaric | ihrachyshka: from my point of view we have several customers eagerly awaiting this... | 14:17 |
| carl_baldwin | I agree with salv-orlando, I don’t think there is a way we can land this all in one shot and say it is ready. | 14:17 |
| anteaya | salv-orlando: we have no policy about how many non-voting jobs a project can have | 14:18 |
| mestery | So based on this input, I think we need to defer this to Liberty then. We don't need to re-approve the spec, and in fact can work to land it once the RC branch is cut. | 14:18 |
| johnbelamaric | carl_baldwin: yes, it has to stay experimental | 14:18 |
| salv-orlando | ihrachyshka: good point. I remember arguing with people in the past that since they were not adding any externally visible feature, there was no rush to merge their feature by a given deadline | 14:18 |
| mestery | No one wants to hear that I'm sure though | 14:18 |
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| mestery | But it's likely where this headed | 14:18 |
| salv-orlando | I'll let to carl_baldwin and johnbelamaric to explain the benefits | 14:18 |
| anteaya | I can't see us wanting to police that, just use what you need | 14:18 |
| salv-orlando | anteaya: thanks1 | 14:18 |
| anteaya | thank you | 14:19 |
| dougwig | johnbelamaric: could we land it all in stackforge as an external, so those customers could get at it? | 14:19 |
| ihrachyshka | we should definitely do case-by-case post mortem on why pieces targeted are not shipped... | 14:19 |
| mestery | We're literally in the final weeks of Kilo. | 14:19 |
| mestery | Rather than rushing a big feature like this in at the end, I think it makes sense to do this early in Liberty to be honest. | 14:19 |
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| ihrachyshka | dougwig, that involves base db plugin refactor, I don't know whether it's reasonable to have it in stackforge | 14:19 |
| markmcclain | mestery: +1 to deferring.. we did it for IPv6 Icehouse and while frustrating I think we ended up in a better place when it landed in Juno | 14:19 |
| amotoki | In my understanding, "experimental" means the minimum feature set is completed and it needs broader testing. if the expected minimum feature set is doen, it is okay to say it experimental. | 14:20 |
| johnbelamaric | dougwig: certainly that's a possibility but it complicates things, as several of these customers expect to get the code from distributors (SUSE, RedHat, etc.) which will be much easier if it's in tree | 14:20 |
| anteaya | you are discussing adding an untested feature _after_ feature freeze? | 14:20 |
| mestery | anteaya: When you put it that way. | 14:20 |
| ihrachyshka | markmcclain, we are actually worse of letting some ipv6 pieces in icehouse at all | 14:20 |
| anteaya | just doing a reality check | 14:20 |
| johnbelamaric | amotoki: the minimal feature set will be ready | 14:21 |
| mestery | OK, I think we need to admit we can't land this in a decent shape in the next few weeks. | 14:21 |
| mestery | And to do this right, lets just land this early in Liberty. | 14:21 |
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| mestery | Thoughts? | 14:21 |
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| salv-orlando | dougwig: the way it's been done so far requires a lot of patching in db_base_plugin_v2 | 14:21 |
| salv-orlando | I'd rather defer than use stackforge for it | 14:21 |
| dougwig | salv-orlando, johnbelamaric - understood. | 14:22 |
| armax | salv-orlando: +1 | 14:22 |
| salv-orlando | we could put the drivers in stackforge | 14:22 |
| ihrachyshka | I agree. The blame is hugely on review team | 14:22 |
| markmcclain | ihrachyshka: we hid all of the IPv6 API changes because they weren't ready | 14:22 |
| armax | stackforge seems more trouble than it’s worth for this | 14:22 |
| mestery | armax: ++ | 14:22 |
| salv-orlando | ihrachyshka: nah I've been swamped by 1,000 things this release cycle and could not get my hands on it before end of January | 14:22 |
| amotoki | armax: agree | 14:22 |
| johnbelamaric | mestery: well, clearly this is a big disappointment if we go that way - the plan was to not enable it by default | 14:22 |
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| ihrachyshka | markmcclain, right, but ipv6 mode flags that were merged in I are not the best design solution, and they bite us often now | 14:22 |
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| carl_baldwin | I’m not seeing how stack forge will work. The drivers could go in there, but there is code to load and use the drivers that cannot. | 14:23 |
| mestery | johnbelamaric: I think the big issue is taking on new techinical debt for a feature which isn't tested yet ... in the feature freeze timeframe. | 14:23 |
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| anteaya | mestery: ++ | 14:23 |
| markmcclain | ++ | 14:23 |
| dougwig | mestery: if we're serious about focusing on quality, i think this has to be deferred. i mean, we're after FF here. | 14:23 |
| dougwig | ahh, beat me to it. | 14:23 |
| dougwig | mestery: +1 | 14:23 |
| amotoki | mestery: +1 | 14:23 |
| mestery | I don't see a need to re-propose the spec, we can literally just move to working to land these (with adequate testing) once the RC branch is cut | 14:24 |
| mestery | #info IPAM is deferred to Liberty | 14:24 |
| * ihrachyshka side-notes that we also need to shrink dev cycle so that those cases are not so disappointing | 14:24 | |
| mestery | OK, lets move on to the next one. | 14:24 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/hyper-v-ovs-agent | 14:24 |
| anteaya | ihrachyshka: good luck | 14:24 |
| mestery | armax: You've been looking at this one, along with amotoki. Thouughts? | 14:24 |
| amotoki | mestery: it is better you announce which blueprints are automatically approved for L. it would be nice. | 14:24 |
| salv-orlando | dougwig: I have nothing to oppose to this decision. If carl_baldwin and johnbelamaric want to appeal we can discuss further on the mailing list | 14:25 |
| armax | I made a couple of comments yesterday | 14:25 |
| armax | but last time I chechek didn’t see any feedback from the author | 14:25 |
| mestery | amotoki: Yes, we'll get to that, but I'll do that. | 14:25 |
| armax | checking now | 14:25 |
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| amotoki | the split patch has been proposed. but ovs_lib one is still big. | 14:25 |
| amotoki | ihrachyshka is checking it too. | 14:25 |
| ihrachyshka | atuvenie was going to split it even more | 14:25 |
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| mestery | Yes, I think it needs one more split yet. | 14:25 |
| amotoki | imho ovs_lib, polling, utils can be split into separate patches. | 14:26 |
| ihrachyshka | there are some obvious ways to achieve it (lots of code was just moved around) | 14:26 |
| amotoki | i believe we can land it soon. we alrady have all we need for hyper-v. | 14:26 |
| armax | now the question becomes how confident are we that this reshuffling this late in the cycle is not going to backfire? | 14:27 |
| ihrachyshka | if it's mostly line-by-line identical, I'm not too scared of actual reshuffling. | 14:28 |
| mestery | We're almost halfway through the meeitng, so lets assume this one is ok for now, we can re-visit next week if needed. | 14:28 |
| armax | every day it passes to get this merged makes me increasingly unease | 14:28 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/restructure-l3-agent | 14:28 |
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| mestery | carl_baldwin: This one only has a few patches left | 14:28 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: I assume we can safely land these this week, so not much to discuss here. thoughts? | 14:28 |
| carl_baldwin | mestery: Yes, we’re past the big ones. | 14:29 |
| carl_baldwin | mestery: No, not much to discuss here. | 14:29 |
| HenryG | I have been reviewing, it looks good | 14:29 |
| ihrachyshka | this one is not feature-ish, so could be easily postponed. but if all is in place and not intrusive, it's also ok merge. | 14:29 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: Great! An easy one. HenryG, thanks for that! | 14:29 |
| mestery | LEts move on. | 14:29 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ipv6-router | 14:29 |
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| carl_baldwin | HenryG has been doing great reviews on these BTW. Kudos. | 14:29 |
| mestery | HenryG: This one is dependent on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/multiple-ipv6-prefixes right? | 14:29 |
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| HenryG | Yes, but it is small (and a big bang for the LOC) | 14:30 |
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| absubram | mestery: yes | 14:30 |
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| HenryG | It needs a functional test added, I believe that is imminent | 14:30 |
| mestery | HenryG: OK, I think the other one (multiple ipv6 prefixes) is not small and has lots of patche. | 14:30 |
| mestery | *patches | 14:30 |
| HenryG | Only one is needed for the feature | 14:31 |
| absubram | mestery, HenryG: yes.. hoping to get that functional test change added by today.. was hitting a few issues with it yesterday | 14:31 |
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| absubram | in running the functional tests that is.. not my change :p | 14:31 |
| mestery | OK, lets circle back on these later in the week, we'll need the functional test for V6 routers and HenryG you can let me know which patch is needed for multiple prefixes. | 14:31 |
| mestery | The last two are LBaaS drivers which need working CI, whcih neitehr has. | 14:32 |
| mestery | dougwig: What is the date on those LBaaS ones we gve them? | 14:32 |
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| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/netscaler-lbass-v2-driver | 14:32 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/radware-lbaas-driver | 14:32 |
| dougwig | mestery: date was today, though i was going to give them until the end of the week, since they're not mainline code. | 14:32 |
| mestery | dougwig: OK, lets see if htey can get the CI working. | 14:32 |
| dougwig | the radware driver is really close, in particular. | 14:33 |
| mestery | OK, 28 minutes left now, lets continue down the agenda, some conentiious things left. | 14:33 |
| mestery | #topic MTU and vlan_transparency recovery mode | 14:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MTU and vlan_transparency recovery mode (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:33 | |
| mestery | armax filed two bugs to track the cleanups here | 14:33 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1434667 | 14:33 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1434667 in neutron "VLAN transparent feature cleanup" [High,Confirmed] | 14:33 |
| armax | garyk is not around | 14:33 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1434671 | 14:33 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1434671 in neutron "MTU advertisement feature cleanup" [High,Confirmed] | 14:33 |
| armax | too bad | 14:33 |
| mestery | armax: Really? *sigh* | 14:33 |
| mestery | Well, lets just see what we can do here. | 14:33 |
| armax | mestery: I’ve pinged him, let see if he jumps in | 14:34 |
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| mestery | I was out last Friday, so armax, can you summarize for me and the meeting minutes where we stand here? | 14:34 |
| armax | anyway amotoki seems to favor the approach where the vlan_transparent attribute is an extension attribute | 14:34 |
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| armax | and keep the mtu one as is | 14:34 |
| mestery | I thought garyk was in favor of that too? | 14:35 |
| mestery | and salv-orlando as well? | 14:35 |
| pritesh | mestery: last time garyk agreed that he was ok with mtu one, the vlan one still needs concensus. | 14:35 |
| mestery | pritesh: Ack | 14:35 |
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| mestery | #info Plan is to keep the MTU attribute as-is, and look to make the vlan_transparent an extension attribute | 14:35 |
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| garyk | hi, sorry for joining later | 14:35 |
| ajo | that's my opinion on the mtu bit at least. | 14:35 |
| mestery | armax: Looks like we may only need the one bug. | 14:35 |
| mestery | garyk: yo | 14:35 |
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| ajo | (hi :) ) | 14:35 |
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| amotoki | MTU one goes as-is without extension? | 14:36 |
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| armax | amotoki: do you have concerns? | 14:36 |
| amotoki | I just wonder how to detect it from API perspective. | 14:36 |
| garyk | i am in favor of the mtu being an extension too | 14:36 |
| marun | that's the only way we have a chance of having tempest be able to test it | 14:37 |
| marun | so +1 for extension from me, too | 14:37 |
| amotoki | i can go into the detail thursday and friday. | 14:37 |
| garyk | at the moment it is read only and driven by ml2 plugin configurations | 14:37 |
| armax | I am really not that swayed one way or another | 14:37 |
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| mestery | Honestly, me either, but I'd like to resolve it so we can ship these in kilo. If that means extension attributes, lets just make that happen. | 14:38 |
| dougwig | can we timebox this, lest we start to rehash last week? it was going in circles. | 14:38 |
| armax | we can have both as extension attributes, it’ll take more work, so let’s agree now and waste no more time | 14:38 |
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| salv-orlando | I think the MTU patch makes sense. | 14:38 |
| mestery | #info move mtu and vlan_transparency to extension attributes | 14:38 |
| marun | does anyone have alternate view about the testing? | 14:38 |
| mestery | armax: Done | 14:38 |
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| marun | can we sanely test without detecting feature via api extension? | 14:38 |
| garyk | mestery: is anyone going to take it as an action item to do? | 14:38 |
| ajo | marun what's the exact issue with testing? | 14:39 |
| dougwig | marun: depends on your definition of sanity. :) | 14:39 |
| ajo | (whithout extension) | 14:39 |
| mestery | garyk: I was hoping htis is where pritesh would jump in :) | 14:39 |
| ajo | without | 14:39 |
| garyk | mestery: ok, thank | 14:39 |
| armax | marun: we can’t selectively test the feeature if it wasn’t an extension | 14:39 |
| amotoki | ajo: the issue is from API perspective. testing is one case. | 14:39 |
| mestery | pritesh: Are you ok with refactorign these to extensions? | 14:39 |
| marun | dougwig: ^^ | 14:39 |
| tiswanso | garyk, mestery: I will work with pritesh as well | 14:39 |
| mestery | tiswanso: Awesome! | 14:39 |
| tiswanso | for the mtu | 14:39 |
| garyk | tiswanso: thanks | 14:39 |
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| pritesh | mestery: i am ok with vlan one, mtu i thoght should remain in core. | 14:39 |
| mestery | #action tiswanso and pritesh to refactor MTU and vlan_transparent into extension attributes | 14:40 |
| mestery | pritesh: See marun and amotoki's concerns around testing above. | 14:40 |
| tiswanso | pritesh: +1 --- would prefer it's in core as it makes sense :-) | 14:40 |
| mestery | I think we need to move forward with these quickly to refactor or risk reviving garyk's reverts if we don't solve this. | 14:40 |
| salv-orlando | tiswanso, pritesh: being in core vs extension what difference makes for you? | 14:40 |
| tiswanso | but defer to the more knowledgeable about test practicalities | 14:40 |
| salv-orlando | just trying to make sure you do not believe that an extension is a 2nd class api | 14:41 |
| marun | are we intending to start microversioning to avoid this kind of thing in L? | 14:41 |
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| salv-orlando | marun: indeed that why core vs extension is a moot point for me now | 14:41 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: agreed | 14:41 |
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| armax | let’s move both to be extension attributes and revisit in L | 14:41 |
| salv-orlando | marun: but there's still lack of consensus on microversioning and saying good riddance to extensions | 14:41 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on then. | 14:41 |
| armax | I guess that’s the best we can do right now | 14:41 |
| tiswanso | salv-orlando: I don't have a strong reason... was kind of viewing as 2nd class API but need to learn more details | 14:41 |
| armax | too bad we didn’t have this conversation a while back | 14:41 |
| mestery | We have more to cover here, and I think the case to moving both to extension attributes has been made. | 14:41 |
| pritesh | ok so do we need FFE or do we do it in the bugs filed by armax | 14:41 |
| mestery | pritesh: Use the bugs please :) | 14:42 |
| salv-orlando | tiswanso: do you know that floating ips and security groups are extensons as well? they don't seem 2nd class APIs to me! | 14:42 |
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| armax | tiswanso: this is totally the wrong way to look ait it | 14:42 |
| pritesh | mestery: will do thanks. | 14:42 |
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| amotoki | tiswanso: having API in core or extension is not a big thing. it does not necessarily mean the 2nd class API. | 14:42 |
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| tiswanso | salv-orlando: thanks for the clarification... didn't know that | 14:42 |
| mestery | Folks, 18 minutes left, lets stop bike shedding and move on :) | 14:42 |
| mestery | #topic Pylint -- In or out? | 14:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pylint -- In or out? (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:42 | |
| mestery | dougwig: This is your yak to shave | 14:42 |
| tiswanso | I'm fine with the group's opinion.. just wanted to give my vote :-) | 14:43 |
| dougwig | oh, thanks. | 14:43 |
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| mestery | dougwig: 2 more items after this, so I'll hold this particular yak shaving to 6 minutes ;) | 14:43 |
| dougwig | i've been hesitant reviewing pylint patches, because i know the group is split. did we ever make a group decision on pylint? are we full-throttle merging it in, or is it's annoyance not worth it? | 14:43 |
| carl_baldwin | I think pylint has to be pinned or out. | 14:43 |
| armax | I think that with the current arrangement of the jobs, keeping it unpinned it’s not a big deal | 14:44 |
| ihrachyshka | pylint++ | 14:44 |
| armax | we can recover from a failure fairly quickly | 14:44 |
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| ihrachyshka | it should be on same par as pep8, no difference | 14:44 |
| garyk | could it be non voting? | 14:45 |
| dougwig | is it worth the trouble? i like the idea of it, but i've been finding it's annoyance outweighs its usefulness. | 14:45 |
| armax | garyk: no | 14:45 |
| ihrachyshka | there is some push-back against pinning it globally, but that's just wrong and should be pushed forward to avoid random failures | 14:45 |
| carl_baldwin | I’m pretty sure that pylint has cost us a couple days of gate time this cycle. | 14:45 |
| ihrachyshka | garyk, non-voting == non-caring | 14:45 |
| dougwig | ihrachyshka: globally in openstack there seems to be pushback against pylint in general | 14:45 |
| * HenryG is a fan of a voting pylint | 14:45 | |
| garyk | if we can fix failures then legs go with it - unless it is really blocking | 14:45 |
| armax | carl_baldwin: that’s before the skip-if filter | 14:45 |
| ajo | can't we pin it locally? | 14:45 |
| armax | that marun did | 14:45 |
| ihrachyshka | carl_baldwin, that's because it was not pinned | 14:45 |
| armax | and the separate job | 14:45 |
| armax | ajo: no | 14:46 |
| carl_baldwin | ihrachyshka: That is why I say pinned or out. | 14:46 |
| anteaya | something in global requirements pinned locally creates a mess | 14:46 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: no, that’s because of the arrangement we had | 14:46 |
| ajo | armax: it will be override when we take the global imports? | 14:46 |
| armax | if today it broke we could disable it in tox | 14:46 |
| ajo | requirements, sorry | 14:46 |
| ihrachyshka | ajo, we can try too, but better handle it globally. we can back up to local pin if nothing goes globally for a month or so | 14:46 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: See comments from anteaya on local pinning of a global requirement | 14:46 |
| armax | and the change to disable it will less than 10 mins to merge | 14:47 |
| ihrachyshka | anteaya, what's the problem with pin? | 14:47 |
| armax | with no fuss | 14:47 |
| * marun is not a fan of pylint. let's spend our time writing better tests! | 14:47 | |
| dougwig | we have 2 minutes. does anyone feel strongly that it should be *out* ? | 14:47 |
| ajo | mestery, where? anteaya | 14:47 |
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| ihrachyshka | anteaya, pin as in <=current_version | 14:47 |
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| anteaya | any diversion from global requirements creates a mess for you | 14:47 |
| anteaya | you are async to the rest of openstack | 14:47 |
| armax | marun: that’s a good reason to make pylint moot | 14:47 |
| * ihrachyshka notes that we pin hacking locally | 14:47 | |
| ajo | anteaya, yes but it's a tool, not a lib.. | 14:48 |
| anteaya | being in sync with the rest of openstack is rather the point of global requirements | 14:48 |
| armax | getting rid of pylint because of infra related problems seems like solving the wrong problem | 14:48 |
| ajo | anteaya, if the problem is the global reqs transposing to local, we could fix that to read some sort of tags we set.. | 14:48 |
| clarkb | just put a pin in global requirements | 14:48 |
| marun | anteaya: global requirements is problematic for some use cases. | 14:48 |
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| ajo | clarkb, that wasn't accepted | 14:48 |
| marun | anteaya: we need to start supporting pinning next cycle | 14:48 |
| ihrachyshka | anteaya, the point of pin is to fix new issues on our schedule | 14:48 |
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| marun | anteaya: but that's a debate for another time | 14:48 |
| -amotoki- 5 min warning | 14:48 | |
| clarkb | ajo it wasnt? thats weird | 14:48 |
| armax | I’d rather get rid of pylint because we write code that is so great that we no longer need it | 14:48 |
| mestery | We're yak shaving on the logistics of using pylint, but I've not seen if people really *want* it in yet. | 14:48 |
| clarkb | its how we do pep8 and pyflakes | 14:48 |
| markmcclain | mestery: I'd like to see pylint go away | 14:49 |
| * carl_baldwin agrees with marun, has put his comments in the global pin patch review. | 14:49 | |
| ajo | clarkb: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163506/ | 14:49 |
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| garyk | is the yak shaving done in the bike shed? | 14:49 |
| mestery | garyk: Yes | 14:49 |
| ihrachyshka | ok, next stop - dropping pep8 I guess | 14:49 |
| dougwig | we're at time. | 14:49 |
| marun | ihrachyshka: hardly | 14:49 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on, we have two more bike sheds full of yaks for htis meeting | 14:49 |
| mestery | We didn't solve pylint here though. | 14:49 |
| mestery | dougwig: ML perhaps? | 14:49 |
| dougwig | mestery: ok | 14:49 |
| mestery | #topic DVR Gate Job | 14:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DVR Gate Job (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:50 | |
| mestery | armax: You're up! | 14:50 |
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| armax | I looked at this graph | 14:50 |
| armax | http://graphite.openstack.org/render/?from=-10days&height=500&until=now&width=1200&bgcolor=ffffff&fgcolor=000000&yMax=100&yMin=0&target=color(alias(movingAverage(asPercent(stats.zuul.pipeline.check.job.check-tempest-dsvm-neutron-dvr.FAILURE,sum(stats.zuul.pipeline.check.job.check-tempest-dsvm-neutron-dvr.{SUCCESS,FAILURE})),%2736hours%27),%20%27check-tempest-dsvm-neutron-dvr%27),%27orange%27)&target=color(alias(movingAverag | 14:50 |
| armax | asPercent(stats.zuul.pipeline.check.job.check-tempest-dsvm-neutron-full.FAILURE,sum(stats.zuul.pipeline.check.job.check-tempest-dsvm-neutron-full.{SUCCESS,FAILURE})),%2736hours%27),%20%27check-tempest-dsvm-neutron-full%27),%27blue%27) | 14:50 |
| * mestery grumbles about bad paste | 14:50 | |
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| armax | to track the reliability of the DVR job | 14:50 |
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| armax | http://goo.gl/jF5zBP | 14:50 |
| armax | is that better? | 14:51 |
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| anteaya | mestery: yeah graphite urls are never short | 14:51 |
| marun | huh, that's neat | 14:51 |
| mestery | armax: yes | 14:51 |
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| marun | so we're down to a reasonable failure rate for the dvr job? | 14:51 |
| salv-orlando | armax: no you could do phishing using url shorteners. and then google is evil :) | 14:51 |
| armax | the long term plan is to have multi-node voting | 14:51 |
| armax | swami is working on it | 14:51 |
| * carl_baldwin has also been tracking this graph. Pleased with the current state. | 14:51 | |
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| marun | that would imply actually testing dvr... | 14:51 |
| armax | the question is: do we want to making the single-node voting as an interim step? | 14:51 |
| mestery | armax: ++, I'm fine with that as the interim step | 14:52 |
| armax | yes, making it voting means that DVR must be taken into account into any Routing feature and Testing | 14:52 |
| mestery | And continuing down the multi-node tesitng path that swami is doing | 14:52 |
| salv-orlando | armax: I'm fine with that either. possibly after rc1 is out? | 14:52 |
| mestery | With the goal of having the multi-node job up at least non-voting soon | 14:52 |
| armax | I was going to watch the job for another few days | 14:52 |
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| marun | armax: I'd like to see better docs so that other developers can have a clue as to how to fix problems as they occur. | 14:53 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I guess we probably need to take this to the ML too | 14:53 |
| salv-orlando | armax: cool | 14:53 |
| marun | armax: right now, I'm pretty sure dvr is a mystery to most. | 14:53 |
| armax | marun: that should be true for anything in Neutron | 14:53 |
| mestery | armax: Ack, sounds like it | 14:53 |
| amotoki | my vote is to make it voting once Liberty is open. | 14:53 |
| anteaya | armax: can you include a shortened link to this graph in the patch to make the job voting please? | 14:53 |
| armax | I don’t see why DVR should be treated differently | 14:53 |
| marun | armax: dvr is an order of magnitude more complicated though, if only in implementaiton. | 14:53 |
| armax | anteaya: can do | 14:53 |
| anteaya | armax: thanks | 14:53 |
| armax | marun: depends where you look from | 14:53 |
| armax | marun: but I can see what you mean | 14:53 |
| armax | HA is no piece of cake either | 14:54 |
| salv-orlando | marun: not at mistery at all. everybody knows what a dvr is - the thing you used to record movies back in the '90s | 14:54 |
| armax | and that doesn’t even have tests | 14:54 |
| armax | besides a few functional onces | 14:54 |
| armax | ones | 14:54 |
| marun | armax: it has pretty good functional ones, fwiw | 14:54 |
| marun | armax: but no substitute for a proper integration test. | 14:54 |
| * marun digresses | 14:54 | |
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| mestery | OK, lets move on here. | 14:54 |
| mestery | One item left | 14:54 |
| mestery | #topic LBaaS | 14:55 |
| mestery | dougwig: Is this one yours too? | 14:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "LBaaS (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:55 | |
| mestery | Or xgerman's? | 14:55 |
| dougwig | xgerman's | 14:55 |
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| xgerman | mine | 14:55 |
| mestery | xgerman: Please, go ahead. | 14:55 |
| ajo | salv-orlando: lol | 14:55 |
| xgerman | ok, we want to make Horizon panels for LBaaS and I was tsrating to collect some use cases | 14:55 |
| xgerman | so please add them to the etherpad | 14:56 |
| mestery | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/LBaaS_Horizon_Use_Cases | 14:56 |
| anteaya | xgerman: have you talked to david_lyle about this? | 14:56 |
| xgerman | not yet | 14:56 |
| anteaya | horizon is getting crowded to the point of being unusable | 14:56 |
| anteaya | yeah um, maybe start there | 14:57 |
| amotoki | is it targetted to Liberty? right? | 14:57 |
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| dougwig | amotoki: yes | 14:57 |
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| xgerman | yes, Liberty, and we are talking to our UX designer Michael Hinnant | 14:57 |
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| amotoki | nice. we will deprecate LBaaS v1 API in Kilo and we need to support LBaaS v2 in L :) | 14:57 |
| mestery | xgerman: Excellent, I'd make sure to talk to david-lyle as anteaya said. | 14:57 |
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| mestery | amotoki: Yes | 14:58 |
| anteaya | some would say, and I'm amoung them that horizon is unusable now | 14:58 |
| anteaya | due to overcrowding | 14:58 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 14:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:58 | |
| mestery | OK, a minute or so left. | 14:58 |
| anteaya | I have a question | 14:58 |
| mestery | Lets keep the focus on RC BPs and bugs now. | 14:58 |
| anteaya | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/059294.html | 14:58 |
| mestery | Be cautious when merging code now | 14:58 |
| mestery | marun: link from anteaya is your email about moving testing to neutron | 14:58 |
| anteaya | in the thrid party meeting yesterday luqas asked what if anything third party folks should test when this test moves | 14:59 |
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| mestery | 1 minute left too :) | 14:59 |
| anteaya | I had no response to give him | 14:59 |
| anteaya | what do you want third party folks to do? | 14:59 |
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| marun | anteaya: keep running tempest for now | 14:59 |
| anteaya | thank you, and when the test moves? | 14:59 |
| mestery | OK, we've gotta end this now. | 14:59 |
| marun | anteaya: it will shortly be possible to have them run the tests from neutron | 14:59 |
| anteaya | just keep running tempest? | 14:59 |
| mestery | Lets move this to #openstack-neutron or ML thread. | 14:59 |
| mestery | Thanks folks! | 14:59 |
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| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:59 | |
| armax | bye | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 14:59:50 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-03-24-14.01.html | 14:59 |
| yamamoto | bye | 14:59 |
| dougwig | bye | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-03-24-14.01.txt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-03-24-14.01.log.html | 14:59 |
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| amotoki | thanks | 14:59 |
| yamahata | bye | 14:59 |
| ajo | bye :) | 15:00 |
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| xgerman | bye | 15:00 |
| rkukura | bye | 15:00 |
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| salv-orlando | adieuuuu | 15:00 |
| banix | bye | 15:00 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 24 15:00:40 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler? | 15:00 |
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| alex_xu | o/ | 15:01 |
| edleafe | o/ | 15:01 |
| markus_z | o/ | 15:02 |
| n0ano | let's get started then... | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | \o | 15:03 |
| n0ano | #topic Patch status - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-nova-priorities-tracking | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Patch status - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-nova-priorities-tracking (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:03 | |
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| edleafe | I have nothing to talk about for once | 15:03 |
| n0ano | edleafe, you're off the hook, all your patches got merged :-) | 15:03 |
| edleafe | :) | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | I don't have much to say except I'm on my way too :) | 15:04 |
| n0ano | I am curious about Paul's, 4 of his got merged yesterday, is there hope for the remaining 5? | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: which ones got merged ? | 15:05 |
| n0ano | bauzas, check the priority page, the last 4 on his list | 15:05 |
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| * n0ano is still a little fuzzy on what can/cannot get merged after a freeze | 15:06 | |
| bauzas | n0ano: oh ok, testing stuff | 15:06 |
| bauzas | n0ano: :) | 15:06 |
| lxsli | o/ | 15:06 |
| edleafe | n0ano: is there a FFE for these? | 15:06 |
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| lxsli | n0ano: my patches got merged without any FFE (I know of) so a) yay!, b) not sure what's going on there | 15:07 |
| n0ano | I don't remember seeing one, I was letting Paul drive that | 15:07 |
| lxsli | think he plans to rebase them and cross fingers for +W | 15:07 |
| n0ano | Paul's patches are in the priority list, so maybe that means it gets an extension by definition | 15:08 |
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| edleafe | I haven't seen Paul around much | 15:08 |
| lxsli | ah could be it, mine were too | 15:08 |
| edleafe | I can rebase them | 15:08 |
| lxsli | he has a clash right now, let me ask him | 15:08 |
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| edleafe | n0ano: I wouldn't assume that | 15:08 |
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| edleafe | johnthetubaguy was pretty concerned about my patches barely making it *before* FF | 15:08 |
| bauzas | n0ano: honestly, don't brainstorm too much about that | 15:09 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, meaning just let the process work? | 15:09 |
| bauzas | n0ano: meaning let the discussions happen on IRC :) | 15:09 |
| lxsli | edleafe: ok he's talking atm, can't imagine he'll mind though! Thank you | 15:10 |
| n0ano | well, my attitude is keep working things until someone does a -2 and officially moves it to the next release | 15:10 |
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| lxsli | n0ano: +1, no harm done by keeping up to date | 15:11 |
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| n0ano | rebasing would be good, edleafe can I have you work out who will do it? | 15:11 |
| edleafe | n0ano: already on it | 15:11 |
| n0ano | edleafe, tnx | 15:12 |
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| n0ano | I think that's all we can say about current patches (keep fingers crossed the the remaining ones get merged) | 15:12 |
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| n0ano | #topic Vancouver design summit | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vancouver design summit (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:13 | |
| n0ano | I wanted us to start thinking about what we want in a scheduler session at Vancouver... | 15:13 |
| n0ano | most of the ground work for cleaing up the APIs is done... | 15:13 |
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| n0ano | hopefully, the actual split will be fairly straight forward but we probably want to talk about that a bit | 15:14 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I was aiming to talk about the migration path | 15:14 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: not talking about the project switch, but rather look at the steps for kicking out Gantt | 15:15 |
| n0ano | bauzas, in what way, the goal is that the first gantt implementation will be a replacement for the current scheduler, there should be no migration (other than testing) | 15:15 |
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| edleafe | n0ano: how about the data? | 15:15 |
| bauzas | n0ano: erm, I would like to share your optimism, but we're far from just a code split | 15:15 |
| bauzas | edleafe: we actually don't care about data, because scheduler doesn't persist anything | 15:16 |
| edleafe | n0ano: we really need to define what data will be owned by gantt, and how it will get there from nova | 15:16 |
| edleafe | bauzas: but it will after the split | 15:16 |
| bauzas | edleafe: that's post gantt-split | 15:16 |
| bauzas | edleafe: the current status is that only compute_nodes is readed by Scheduler | 15:16 |
| edleafe | bauzas: yes, which we need to plan before we split | 15:16 |
| bauzas | edleafe: so my concern is more about how to share objects with Nova, how to release a client, which kind of shipment will be done for the scheduler, work on CI etc. | 15:17 |
| edleafe | bauzas: and make it general enough so that cinder and others can use gantt for their scheduling | 15:17 |
| bauzas | edleafe: that's far too early to discuss that | 15:17 |
| edleafe | bauzas: too early to implement, sure, but we need to have a direction | 15:18 |
| bauzas | edleafe: well, we have a direction | 15:18 |
| n0ano | I think I agree with both of you, start the discussion but be aware we're talking futures | 15:18 |
| edleafe | n0ano: definitely post-liberty | 15:18 |
| bauzas | edleafe: and we even have a target design, lucky we are | 15:19 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: so honestly, we have to stick with libery things | 15:19 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: I mean for the Summit | 15:19 |
| bauzas | and at least for the Nova talks | 15:19 |
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| bauzas | we can still do a BoF session for talking about that in between us and other peers | 15:19 |
| bauzas | we can even take a pod | 15:20 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, I'd like to at least get people thinking about post-Liberty things, longer term planning can be helpful | 15:20 |
| bauzas | but Nova sessions won't be post-L focused | 15:20 |
| edleafe | bauzas: my only concern is that splitting becomes the final goal instead of a big first step | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: 100% agreeing with you, but not during Nova sessions, that's it :) | 15:21 |
| n0ano | edleafe, splitting was never my end goal, getting other projects to use gantt, that's closer to my end game | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: so, again, pods, BoFs, teasing at the end of a certain presentation | 15:21 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 15:21 |
| bauzas | I think we all are in violent agreement then | 15:21 |
| n0ano | especially the tease at the end of a discussion | 15:21 |
| bauzas | let's keep Nova talks for Nova guys, and meet us together if we want to discuss post-L | 15:22 |
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| n0ano | I don't want to to insular, it would be nice if we can get other projects involved in the post-L ideas | 15:22 |
| bauzas | n0ano: hence the BoF thing | 15:22 |
| edleafe | agreed - BoF is best for these talks | 15:23 |
| n0ano | bauzas, yeah, I'm think of some sort of BoF for cross-project issues | 15:23 |
| bauzas | n0ano: we seriously need Cinder peers | 15:23 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +2 | 15:23 |
| bauzas | n0ano: anyway, I don't even have the Design Summit agenda | 15:23 |
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| bauzas | so I don't know if we'll still rule out cross-project sessions | 15:24 |
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| n0ano | that's why I wanted to start thinking about things so we can be ready as soon as the schedule becomes visible | 15:24 |
| bauzas | but I can talk to Thierry this week | 15:24 |
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| alex_xu | n0ano: +1 | 15:24 |
| bauzas | n0ano: hence my point : let's keep focused on Nova split for L, and open a BoF and potentially a cross-project session for the rest | 15:25 |
| n0ano | bauzas, if you want to ask him specifically if there are any x-project sessions that'd be great | 15:25 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I can | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: he'll be in Grenoble | 15:25 |
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| n0ano | you can get him in person? | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: lol | 15:25 |
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| * n0ano needs to brush up on France geography :-) | 15:26 | |
| bauzas | n0ano: I wish I would be as famous as Kanye West, but at least I know Thierry :) | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: you'll have some France maps by the end of the day - due to the plane crash | 15:27 |
| n0ano | Ick, too true :-( | 15:27 |
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| n0ano | I think we're in agreement, let's think on this subject and talk again next week | 15:27 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: I think we should be ready for opening up an etherpad next week then :D | 15:28 |
| n0ano | anyone have anything new for today? | 15:28 |
| alex_xu | I need a help on a bug | 15:28 |
| bauzas | n0ano: should we make an announcement ? | 15:28 |
| alex_xu | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1420102 | 15:28 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1420102 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Periodic task for quota reservations expire should move out from scheduler" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Alex Xu (xuhj) | 15:28 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, sounds good to me | 15:28 |
| bauzas | first, alex_xu | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | alex_xu: good to see you, in particular so late for you | 15:29 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: I saw your patch, and I followed the reviews | 15:29 |
| alex_xu | The early fix just move the expire periodic task into the conductor, but get some -1. Then I changed another way, but Joe said that way is too complex for now, we are in RC | 15:29 |
| alex_xu | bauzas: thanks :) | 15:29 |
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| bauzas | alex_xu: but IIRC it was about having this done post-K3 right ? | 15:29 |
| alex_xu | so the question is whether we want to target that bug for the K? | 15:29 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: I think we can defer to L | 15:30 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: is it really a bug? | 15:30 |
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| edleafe | alex_xu: or just a step to separating scheduler? | 15:30 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: emm...not a bug | 15:30 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: edleafe: it was a wishlist bug, so technically not a bug | 15:30 |
| n0ano | alex_xu, at this stage I'd prefer to defer it, it isn't an issue until the split which is definitely after K | 15:30 |
| edleafe | yeah, then is should be in L | 15:30 |
| alex_xu | ok, cool, we get agreement :) | 15:30 |
| alex_xu | I'm ok with L | 15:31 |
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| bauzas | cool | 15:31 |
| bauzas | time for an announcement then | 15:31 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/160506/8/nova/api/openstack/compute/contrib/hypervisors.py,cm | 15:31 |
| bauzas | oops | 15:31 |
| bauzas | lol | 15:31 |
| bauzas | http://openstacksummitmay2015vancouver.sched.org/event/4ebfd98c565aaf9480d8389344ece74b#.VRGDTsuvhiU | 15:31 |
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| bauzas | so, please be sure to arrive in Vancouver not later than Monday :) | 15:32 |
| n0ano | hmm, wonder why I don't have a picture, I should do something about that | 15:32 |
| bauzas | n0ano: something messed up with your profile, because it was duplicated | 15:32 |
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| n0ano | it's just my attempt at being anonymous :-) | 15:33 |
| lxsli | nice, see you then :) | 15:33 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I should ask the Daft Punk | 15:33 |
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| alex_xu | I will be there if I can go, if not I will watch the video also | 15:34 |
| edleafe | lxsli: do you want to bring the ripe fruit to throw, or should I? :-P | 15:34 |
| n0ano | edleafe, tnx for the warning, I'll bring a shield :-) | 15:34 |
| edleafe | n0ano: jsut stand behind bauzas | 15:34 |
| bauzas | edleafe: I will prepare myself by running a one-man-show standup before | 15:34 |
| n0ano | edleafe, +1 | 15:34 |
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| n0ano | we're in silly time, anything else serious? | 15:35 |
| edleafe | nope | 15:35 |
| bauzas | back to serious work then, enough chats | 15:35 |
| n0ano | most of my serious work `is` chatting :-( | 15:36 |
| n0ano | Ok, tnx everyone, talk to you next week (if not before) | 15:36 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 15:36:34 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-24-15.00.html | 15:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-24-15.00.txt | 15:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-24-15.00.log.html | 15:36 |
| alex_xu | bye | 15:36 |
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| lxsli | thanks all | 15:37 |
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| msdubov | #startmeeting Rally | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 24 17:02:31 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is msdubov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:02 |
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| redixin | sup | 17:03 |
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| msdubov | amaretskiy, redixin, oanufriev, olkonami, andreykurilin, rvasilets Hi | 17:04 |
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| andreykurilin | msdubov: hey! | 17:04 |
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| msdubov | Let's start | 17:06 |
| msdubov | #topic [Spec] New task input file format | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "[Spec] New task input file format (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:06 | |
| msdubov | #link https://review.openstack.org/159065 | 17:06 |
| msdubov | So the important news is we have finishes this spec on the new task format | 17:06 |
| andreykurilin | cool! | 17:06 |
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| msdubov | The proposed format will be easier for newcomers and, what is no less important, will support parallel runs of different benchmark scenarios | 17:07 |
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| msdubov | amaretskiy, redixin, oanufriev, olkonami, andreykurilin, rvasilets Does anyone have any specific concerns considering this spec? | 17:07 |
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| redixin | msdubov, is there blueprint about new task format? | 17:07 |
| msdubov | andreykurilin I remember you writing something about it in our chat earlier today | 17:07 |
| andreykurilin | msdubov: yeah | 17:08 |
| andreykurilin | msdubov: I have a small idea | 17:08 |
| msdubov | redixin Not sure, we don't worry about blueprints so much? | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | hi everybody! | 17:08 |
| andreykurilin | hi boris-42 | 17:08 |
| redixin | msdubov, i saw "work items" in that spec, so i thought there is blueprint, and we can track this work now | 17:09 |
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| msdubov | andreykurilin: So what's your idea? | 17:10 |
| andreykurilin | msdubov: It would be nice to have optional field in scenarios for store rally version. | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin: hm what do you mean? | 17:10 |
| redixin | some scenarius could be version specific | 17:11 |
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| amaretskiy | afaik this is a kind of final format, so we do not need versioning | 17:11 |
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| andreykurilin | msdubov: if task.json is written for rally release N, several sceanarios appeared in N release and we will be able to run this task at rally N-1 | 17:11 |
| andreykurilin | boris-42: ^ | 17:11 |
| andreykurilin | instead of InvalidTask format, such scenarios will be skipped | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin: I think it can be added to format latter | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin: as a separated change and spec | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | but in any case what about thrid party plugins? | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | how you are going to check them and so on? | 17:12 |
| msdubov | boris-42: We can add yet another label to mark third-party, but then it starts to be too complicated imho | 17:13 |
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| msdubov | I like that the current format is not overloaded | 17:13 |
| msdubov | not too much fields | 17:13 |
| msdubov | so this is a kind of readable | 17:13 |
| andreykurilin | boris-42: how third party plygins are related here?) | 17:14 |
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| andreykurilin | boris-42: the check will be simple. if rally.__version__ < task.scenarios.rally_version: do_skip | 17:14 |
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| andreykurilin | the check should compare actual rally version and version specified for scenario | 17:15 |
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| msdubov | boris-42 andreykurilin Anything to add? | 17:17 |
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| boris-42 | andreykurilin: ah you mean that | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | andreykurilin: so yep | 17:18 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin: idea seems interesting | 17:19 |
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| boris-42 | andreykurilin: maybe we should extend it like having that rally.__version__ should be less them something | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin: in case of deleting scenarios? | 17:19 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: hey | 17:20 |
| msdubov | meteorfox: hey | 17:21 |
| meteorfox | msdubov: hi | 17:21 |
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| msdubov | boris-42, andreykurilin, I suggest moving forward | 17:21 |
| msdubov | Let's discuss yet another spec | 17:21 |
| msdubov | #topic [Spec] Database migrations | 17:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "[Spec] Database migrations (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:22 | |
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| msdubov | amaretskiy: Could you please tell us about your recent work on this? | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: it should be renamed | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: to "Rally upgrades" | 17:22 |
| amaretskiy | I've just submitted spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167319/ | 17:22 |
| amaretskiy | however this spec requires further work | 17:23 |
| amaretskiy | the main point is that will be renamed Database migrations -> Rally Upgrades | 17:23 |
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| amaretskiy | this spec will describe also rally update | 17:26 |
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| amaretskiy | so I'm planning to improve this spec a lot tomorrow | 17:26 |
| amaretskiy | eom | 17:26 |
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| msdubov | amaretskiy: Thanks | 17:27 |
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| msdubov | #topic Report charts | 17:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Report charts (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:28 | |
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| msdubov | amaretskiy: Any updates on your patches? | 17:28 |
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| amaretskiy | there are 3 patches that are waiting revieews | 17:28 |
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| amaretskiy | 1) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159458/ | 17:29 |
| amaretskiy | 2) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/146814/ | 17:29 |
| amaretskiy | 3) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/161699/ | 17:29 |
| amaretskiy | please make reviews :) | 17:29 |
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| msdubov | boris-42 redixin andreykurilin msdubov oanufriev ^ | 17:30 |
| amaretskiy | patch 159458 will be updated today | 17:30 |
| patchbot | amaretskiy: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159458/ | 17:30 |
| meteorfox | amaretskiy: will do | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin: uh this one will require https://review.openstack.org/#/c/146814/ a lot of reviews | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: ^ | 17:30 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: because of db changes | 17:30 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: I think you should review my spec regarding to new db schema | 17:30 |
| amaretskiy | yes | 17:31 |
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| msdubov | ok, nice | 17:34 |
| msdubov | #topic Plugin base | 17:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Plugin base (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:34 | |
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| msdubov | boris-42 What's the progress here? When are you going to update your patches? | 17:35 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov: I will try today | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: It's hard to do part related to benchmark.scenarios | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: they have different nature | 17:37 |
| msdubov | boris-42: I see | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | so it is quite hard to unify them with the rest kinds of plugins | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov: I have the idea to remove ScenarioGroups plugins at all | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: and have just Scenarios plugins | 17:37 |
| msdubov | boris-42: you mean the notion of scenario classes? | 17:38 |
| msdubov | boris-42: How it is going to look then? | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: it will look the same | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: but there will be some hacks | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: I am still looking for clean solution | 17:39 |
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| msdubov | boris-42: Okay, anyway you are working in relatively small steps so seems like we will get to Scenarios after a couple of patches | 17:41 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov: yep | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: so after we get single base we will be able to work simultaneously | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | on cleanup of code | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | so it will be easy to add depraction messages | 17:43 |
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| boris-42 | info stuff will be just moved to plugins | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | validation stuff will be moved to plguins | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | so we will reduce amount of code a lot | 17:43 |
| msdubov | boris-42: Great | 17:43 |
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| boris-42 | that's all from my side | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: ^ | 17:44 |
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| msdubov | boris-42: Thanks | 17:44 |
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| msdubov | #topic Free discussion | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Free discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:45 | |
| msdubov | boris-42 redixin andreykurilin amaretskiy oanufriev meteorfox Anything else you would like to discuss? | 17:45 |
| amaretskiy | none from my side | 17:45 |
| oanufriev | no. thanks. | 17:45 |
| meteorfox | msdubov: nope | 17:46 |
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| redixin | msdubov, no | 17:46 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov: can we get this merged https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167187/ | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: redixin ^ | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | it's nasty stuff | 17:47 |
| msdubov | Will take a look | 17:47 |
| msdubov | oanufriev: Seems like you should take a look as well | 17:47 |
| oanufriev | ok | 17:48 |
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| boris-42 | okay | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | I think we can end meeting? | 17:48 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov: ^ | 17:48 |
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| msdubov | boris-42: Yep | 17:48 |
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| msdubov | Thanks for participating | 17:48 |
| msdubov | #endmeeting | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 17:49:08 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-24-17.02.html | 17:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-24-17.02.txt | 17:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-24-17.02.log.html | 17:49 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| * lbragstad waves at stevemar | 18:00 | |
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| bknudson | waves at lbragstad and stevemar | 18:01 |
| * stevemar waves back to lbragstad | 18:01 | |
| stevemar | bknudson! | 18:01 |
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| henrynash | chocks away, chaps | 18:01 |
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| marekd | hello | 18:01 |
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| lbragstad | light crew this week? | 18:02 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:02 |
| lbragstad | or just trickling in... | 18:02 |
| gyee | \o | 18:02 |
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| morganfainberg | o] | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samueldmq, htruta, amolock, wanghong, fmarco76, davechen, dims | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Main_Agenda | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | we have people here? | 18:03 |
| amakarov | hi! | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | #startmeeting Keystone | 18:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 24 18:03:16 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | Hi everyone! | 18:03 |
| stevemar | howdy | 18:03 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, what was that? a salute? o] | 18:03 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, maybe | 18:03 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | or "you must be this tall to enter the meeting..." | 18:03 |
| htruta | o- | 18:03 |
| htruta | ayoung: :( | 18:03 |
| bknudson | we're all here ooooooooooooo | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | as stated we have results of FFEs | 18:03 |
| raildo | o/ | 18:04 |
| marekd | Hello | 18:04 |
| samueldmq | hello | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | #topic FFE Results | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "FFE Results (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| morganfainberg | #info Domain-SQL FFE Granted, please complete the work by end of week (this week) | 18:04 |
| ayoung | (^-^)ă‚ť | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | I'll be unblocking the reviews after the meeting | 18:04 |
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| morganfainberg | #info IDP Registration FFE Granted, please complete this work by EOW | 18:04 |
| dstanek | hiya | 18:04 |
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| morganfainberg | #info ECP Wrap FFE Granted, Please complete this work by next meeting | 18:05 |
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| marekd | morganfainberg: thanks | 18:05 |
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| morganfainberg | #info Reseller FFE - deferred until liberty. Risk based on restructuring of domains and scope of work is the reason for the delay. | 18:05 |
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| morganfainberg | just going to move quickly through the start of the meeting | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | most of it is just nnouncements | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | or reminders | 18:06 |
| stevemar | all sounds good to me | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic Use kilo-rc-potential tag for triage | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Use kilo-rc-potential tag for triage (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:06 | |
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| morganfainberg | If a bug is a nice to have (not a blocker) use the 'kilo-rc-potential' tag, do not assign it to the milestone | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | if it is a blocker put it on the milestone | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic REMINDER: Feature Freeze and String Freeze in Effect. | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "REMINDER: Feature Freeze and String Freeze in Effect. (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:07 | |
| bknudson | we can merge bug fixes either way? | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | #undo | 18:07 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x8b4f090> | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, yes. | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, as long as the bug isn't risky to fix | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | or introduces violations of string freeze | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | etc | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | and once merged go ahead and tag it to the milestone | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | the tag is just for triage | 18:08 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic REMINDER: Feature Freeze and String Freeze in Effect. | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "REMINDER: Feature Freeze and String Freeze in Effect. (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:08 | |
| morganfainberg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StringFreeze | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | please be aware of string freeze when approving code. | 18:08 |
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| morganfainberg | annnd thats it for my quick announcement stuff | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | on to the meat | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Log working group liasion | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Log working group liasion (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:09 | |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, o/ | 18:09 |
| bknudson | there's a log working group that has held a couple of meetings | 18:09 |
| bknudson | they're looking for a liaison from each project. | 18:09 |
| gyee | wiki? | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | Its Log Its log Its Log Its log its heavy its made out of wood | 18:10 |
| bknudson | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#OpenStack_Log_Working_Group_Meeting | 18:10 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, better than bad, it's good! | 18:10 |
| bknudson | anyways, if someone wants to sign up to be the liaison for keystone then sign up. | 18:10 |
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| bknudson | if you love log | 18:10 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I nominate Topol | 18:10 |
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| lbragstad | bknudson: does it require sync responsibilities? | 18:10 |
| ayoung | logs are kindof like audit | 18:10 |
| bknudson | works for me. | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | best part is topol isn't here | 18:11 |
| bknudson | they might ask about making changes in keystone. | 18:11 |
| dstanek | ++ for Uncle Brad | 18:11 |
| henrynash | (I’m actually Ok volunteeding if Topol is too bust) | 18:11 |
| bknudson | to support whatever they're working on... e.g., request IDs | 18:11 |
| henrynash | or busy even | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | ok so henrynash please cicleup w/ topol and figure out which (or both) will do it | 18:11 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: will do | 18:12 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, we can't spare you | 18:12 |
| dstanek | henrynash: isn't that really late for you? | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | 20:00 UTC | 18:12 |
| bknudson | maybe we need to redo the meeting time. | 18:12 |
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| marekd | bknudson: this one or the log-working-group ? | 18:13 |
| bknudson | the log working group | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash if the time doesn't work out for you, please let me/keystone group know | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, we can look for another liason | 18:13 |
| henrynash | (aaah and if its 20:00 UTC then I may withdraw my application :-) ) | 18:13 |
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| henrynash | topol & I will chat | 18:14 |
| marekd | it's beer time for henrynash :-) | 18:14 |
| bknudson | ok, that was it. if you're interested attend the meeting. | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, sounds good. | 18:14 |
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| dstanek | if we don't have any other volunteers i will do it - henrynash let me know if you/topol can't | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | on the topic of logs | 18:15 |
| bknudson | logging in keystone is not the best. | 18:15 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic Drop curl notation in logs (especially server-side logs) | 18:15 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Drop curl notation in logs (especially server-side logs) (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:15 | |
| bknudson | you might have noticed. | 18:15 |
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| morganfainberg | The request came that we should adjust the logging from KSC to not be "curl" debugging. you can't use the line anymore due to the obfuscation of the token | 18:15 |
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| morganfainberg | this is really more relevant from the session object itself not KSC. | 18:15 |
| bknudson | what do they want that's so much better? | 18:16 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: but you see how to call this line if you need to... | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | give the important information but not wrap it in curl | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | thats all that was being asked | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | i said we'd bring it up at the meeting | 18:16 |
| ayoung | systemd and journald of course! | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | didn't say anything else. | 18:16 |
| bknudson | make it an option | 18:16 |
| jamielennox | i like the curl command, i have used it a number of times - though i must say it's a pain that we obsfucated the token | 18:16 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, i think it's fair that we offer a logging format | 18:16 |
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| lbragstad | jamielennox: ++ | 18:16 |
| bknudson | they can always mock it. | 18:17 |
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| bknudson | my answer to everything now. | 18:17 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, if we just make it an option - a simple formatter that has known replacements i think that is sufficient | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | and again this is session | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | not ksc proper | 18:17 |
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| morganfainberg | the complaint comes from running nova in debug and seeing curl debug lines talking to neutron | 18:18 |
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| gyee | use log filters? | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | anyway. nothing to be done yet, please mull it over when thinking about logging | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | and logging enhancements | 18:18 |
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| bknudson | that definitely isn't very handy to have curl lines there, and I assume it's a lot shorter to not use it. | 18:18 |
| gyee | bkundson, some of us still using curl for troubleshooting | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i would agree we could be more terse in that case. it's one place our logging is good just in a not-that-useful format | 18:19 |
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| jamielennox | is there a different log level we could emit it on? | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | we can circle up on that as we have more logging discussion | 18:20 |
| bknudson | it'll still have all the info | 18:20 |
| jamielennox | trace3 or something? | 18:20 |
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| morganfainberg | jamielennox, once trace is a thing again, yes | 18:20 |
| marekd | jamielennox: or maybe even try to separate curl logging and store in different file?! | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, or something like that | 18:20 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, sounds like a spec is required there. If we are going to be picky about log formats, we should actually design them | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yeah. it's something to revisit in L. | 18:20 |
| bknudson | use tract now and it'll get logged higher than error | 18:20 |
| bknudson | trace | 18:20 |
| jamielennox | really? didn't know that | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, yeah it has to wait until trace is again a "trace" level not a "traceback" thing | 18:21 |
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| morganfainberg | lets revisit in L | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | we wont get much done on this in kilo anyway | 18:21 |
| jamielennox | marekd: it'd require some sort of filter to seperate becasue other things in session log to debug | 18:21 |
| clarkb | whatever you replace it with the general output is super handy | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | with the split of session and common stuff out of ksc coming in L it becomes interesting to consider | 18:21 |
| clarkb | just recently used it to discover that keystone was returning an unroutable address to deal with tokens at which of course made nova/neutron fail | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | clarkb, yes, the data needs to stay. | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | clarkb, no question we don't want to eliminate any of the info | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | clarkb, just maybe not add "curl" in the line | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | and curl "flags" | 18:22 |
| bknudson | he he | 18:22 |
| bknudson | --insecure? | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, sigh yeah... | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | that would be one i'd like to *NOT* log | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | anyway | 18:23 |
| bknudson | should log a warning every time. | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson CRITICAL | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | :P | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ok moooooving on | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | #topic keystoneclient release: auth-token-use-client | 18:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keystoneclient release: auth-token-use-client (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:24 | |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, o/ again | 18:24 |
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| morganfainberg | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144248/ | 18:24 |
| bknudson | oh, just wondering if we wanted a release of keystoneclient | 18:24 |
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| rodrigods | I do :) | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, we will have one for sure with RC | 18:24 |
| rodrigods | HMT stuff is there | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | we can do another one earlier | 18:24 |
| bknudson | then I can make progress on my middleware bp to use keystoneclient. | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i can cut a release today if you want... just remember g-r wont be updated | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | so you can't really rely on the new stuff | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | or g-r might not be updated | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | for a bit? till L? | 18:25 |
| * morganfainberg isn't sure about the client minimums | 18:25 | |
| bknudson | I can deal with that. | 18:25 |
| jamielennox | i'm pretty sure g-r is frozen for kilo | 18:25 |
| amakarov | btw, are we still using keyring in keystoneclient? | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | amakarov, ^ jamielennox | 18:25 |
| bknudson | worst that they can do to me is -2 | 18:25 |
| marekd | amakarov: are we at all using it? | 18:25 |
| bknudson | I hope that's the worst they can do. | 18:26 |
| marekd | jamielennox: what is g-r | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i'll plan a ksc release today or tomorrow | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | marekd, global requirements | 18:26 |
| bknudson | thanks! | 18:26 |
| jamielennox | amakarov: it's still there, i'd be 50/50 if it works | 18:26 |
| amakarov | marekd, I was asked about it yesterday and found remains of it in the code | 18:26 |
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| bknudson | keystone CLI is deprecated | 18:26 |
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| marekd | amakarov: merged or proposed ? | 18:26 |
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| morganfainberg | #action morganfainberg to release keystoneclient March 24 or 25 | 18:26 |
| jamielennox | it doesn't work with session and plugins | 18:26 |
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| morganfainberg | amakarov we can't remove it if people use ksc cli | 18:27 |
| amakarov | marekd, I think, just forgotten :) | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | and rely on it | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | but ... ksc's cli is deprecated | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | unless someone finds a security problem we will not be updating/changing it. | 18:27 |
| amakarov | morganfainberg, well, but --os-keyring parameter isn't there | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | openstack client is way better | 18:27 |
| jamielennox | there's a message and everything now to say deprecated | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | which reminds me of something i need to bug stevemar about... | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | but not here | 18:27 |
| clarkb | doesn't openstackclient use keystone client? | 18:28 |
| amakarov | morganfainberg, the question was from documentation team and I was a little confused | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | actually | 18:28 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg, another time, osc meeting is on thursday | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | clarkb, not the CLI part | 18:28 |
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| stevemar | clarkb, yeah, but not the CLI parts | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, jamielennox, so ran into an issue trying to use OSC for bootstrapping a cloud | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, jamielennox, might be an old version of osc, i'll check with some folks and make sure to file appropriate bugs. | 18:29 |
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| morganfainberg | but it basically errored all over the place when trying to do things w/ the admin token for bootstrap, and we had to use keystone cli to make it work. | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, jamielennox, so maybe a doc update is needed. | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | i'll get you guys info on it | 18:29 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, the token_endpoint plugin still works for me | 18:29 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg, sounds like an old issue, yeah get us info | 18:29 |
| bknudson | seems like should use keystone-manage for that and get rid of admin token | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | hey, bknudson - guess what? | 18:30 |
| bknudson | too scary | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, yes i expect to be proposing that for L | 18:30 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: what? | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | #topic bandit update | 18:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bandit update (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:30 | |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, o/ you again | 18:30 |
| bknudson | y, so they released bandit today | 18:30 |
| bknudson | it's on pypi | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | yay | 18:30 |
| bknudson | so the next step is to get an experimental job in infra | 18:31 |
| ayoung | What is bandit and why do we care? | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | ayoung, its pretty neat | 18:31 |
| bknudson | bandit is the static code analysis for security issues | 18:31 |
| bknudson | we had a presentation at this meeting a few weeks ago | 18:31 |
| ayoung | Right...I recall it | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | ayoung: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Projects/Bandit | 18:31 |
| ayoung | forgot the name, though | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, +1 on the infra change from me. | 18:31 |
| bknudson | and there's a review to add the tox target | 18:32 |
| dstanek | bknudson: nice | 18:32 |
| marekd | bknudson: how do we use tox + bandit ? | 18:32 |
| * morganfainberg is excited to see bandit run. | 18:32 | |
| marekd | tox -ebandit | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | marekd, that is the idea | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: is there a review already up for the exp. job? | 18:32 |
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| marekd | and it would analyze the code? | 18:32 |
| bknudson | lbragstad: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/157595/ | 18:32 |
| bknudson | is the infra review | 18:32 |
| bknudson | once that merges I'll do recheck experimental a few times to make sure it works | 18:33 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: cool, thanks! | 18:33 |
| bknudson | then I'll probably update the job to nonvotine | 18:33 |
| bknudson | nonvoting | 18:33 |
| gyee | hopefully a non-voting gate, I do worry about the false positives | 18:33 |
| bknudson | and then update to make it voting. | 18:33 |
| bknudson | if people are happy with it. | 18:33 |
| marekd | ++ | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, long term voting, but it'll go non-vote first | 18:33 |
| bknudson | we can discuss that later. | 18:33 |
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| bknudson | that was it. | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i assume it'll be a check-only right? | 18:34 |
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| morganfainberg | even voting? | 18:34 |
| bknudson | we'll be the first to get it. | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | vs. gate? | 18:34 |
| bknudson | right now it's experimental | 18:34 |
| gyee | static code analysis I dealt with in the past tend to give out a ton of false positives | 18:34 |
| bknudson | gyee: we've got more control over bandit. | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | right but longer view, doesn't need to be gate job, could remain check only | 18:34 |
| dstanek | gyee: i've been playing with this for a while and i don't think it'll be too much on an issue | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | anyway | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | uhm... | 18:35 |
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| morganfainberg | so 2 more quick things. | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | #topic no-spec BP review | 18:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "no-spec BP review (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:35 | |
| morganfainberg | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+spec/plugin-wrapper | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+spec/generic-plugins | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | for the record i'm ok with this not having a spec | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | but please feel free to voice concerns if they need them | 18:36 |
| * bknudson votes no spec reqd for these. | 18:36 | |
| gyee | same here | 18:36 |
| marekd | me too | 18:37 |
| dstanek | i see no reason to require it | 18:37 |
| bknudson | although I wouldn't mind one. | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, no spec required != no spec provided | 18:37 |
| bknudson | since it would be nice to see a code sample | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | ;) | 18:37 |
| jamielennox | yea, i don't think they need a spec, they're both reasonably trivial just more of a new feature than a bug | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | ok going onece | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | twice..... | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | works for me | 18:38 |
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| morganfainberg | jamielennox: please update the BPs and provide a link to this meeting notes saying no-spec confimed | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | having said that there is a spec out for KSC that i'd like to bring to peoples attention: https://review.openstack.org/164582 | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | actually it's middleware i guess | 18:39 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: for K? | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: doesn't matter it's client side | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | ah | 18:39 |
| bknudson | well, it matters what deployers ship | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, right | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Open Discussion | 18:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:40 | |
| bknudson | I mean packagers | 18:40 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: i don't mind if we don't merge till L, it won't make g-r for Kilo and there really isn't many services using the auth plugin yet anyway | 18:40 |
| lbragstad | I have a question. Does anyone know if other projects build on the bind supplied in the token? | 18:40 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: I thought it was in devstack? | 18:41 |
| bknudson | auth plugin | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, the bind like krb5 stuff? | 18:41 |
| marekd | I just wanted to say that I will be unavailable next two weeks (actually starting from Friday afternoon), so if you have something you want me to do or talk please let's do this this week. | 18:41 |
| ayoung | So...FreeIPA and LDAP testing in Check. I think it is time | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | but it's possibly contentious as it will mean sending an X-Service-Token on every request and taking over control of the X-OpenStack-Request-ID | 18:41 |
| ayoung | I think we want to push toward this: | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, functional scenarios. yes. | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, 100% | 18:41 |
| ayoung | infra has an Ipa server that is basically untouched. We put a bunch of sample data in it | 18:42 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: oh yea, that's in. This is the auth plugin that middleware passes to the services ENV['keystone.token_auth'] i think | 18:42 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: the bind method that can be supplied on auth | 18:42 |
| ayoung | on Gate, "mount" it as an external domain | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, lets circle up on that. | 18:42 |
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| jamielennox | lbragstad: afaik token binding never really got off the ground | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, there are some mechanics about that proposal that wont really fly atm. | 18:42 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, and it will be the live test of henrynash 's domain in db code | 18:42 |
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| lbragstad | jamielennox: ok, so you're not aware of anyone using it through the client? | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, but it's just about standup not the test part | 18:43 |
| henrynash | ayoung: yippee | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | lbragstad: the way services shuffle the token around from service to service means as soon as we started to actually enforce things on binding everything stopped | 18:43 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, ok. We'll talk After you get your coffee | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | lbragstad: i'm not even sure it's exposed via the client | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, i have an idea for L for that | 18:43 |
| lbragstad | jamielennox: ok, cool | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: me too | 18:43 |
| lbragstad | just because bind will put fernet tokens in the "unbound" case | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, as soon as we get the FFEs done i'll start my write up for some ideas in L | 18:44 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: it's basically X-Service-Token and if you have something different you should probably -1 that blueprint i just mentioned | 18:44 |
| dstanek | have to bail a little early to get my kids - i'll be back in the main channel in a bit | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, it would be nice to have token bind support in fernet - but that *could* land in L when we discuss how we address this. | 18:44 |
| jamielennox | lbragstad: ah | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, i have a different idea - slightly but it builds on service tokens | 18:44 |
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| jamielennox | lbragstad: yea i think your safe, in future i want to get it back, but it should always be optional additional data to the token so we can add it back later | 18:45 |
| jamielennox | you're | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: jamielennox yeah, unless when know how we can supply a format for it, it will boat the token. I'm not sure if it would make sense to put bind in the token format if it's only going to bloat it and no one uses it? | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, i'll write up my Liberty thoughts soon. i need to anyway for when i do the PTL election things. | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | s/when/we/ | 18:46 |
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| morganfainberg | lbragstad, again it can probably wait till L when we have a direct path to supporting bind or a similar thing. | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, i think it would be useful but it's not critical today | 18:46 |
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| lbragstad | morganfainberg: ok, so I'll untag that bug for rc1? | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | sure | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | and update it with a comment | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | downgrade it to medium if it isn't already | 18:47 |
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| lbragstad | morganfainberg: cool, it's already medium | 18:47 |
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| morganfainberg | anything else for the meeting? | 18:47 |
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| morganfainberg | we can let infra have the channel early it looks like | 18:48 |
| amakarov | revocation issue: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141854/ | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | aha | 18:48 |
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| amakarov | will it be fixed by fernet tokens | 18:48 |
| amakarov | or it must to be done something? | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | i think adam is correct, the issue is in the group data not being in the token. | 18:49 |
| amakarov | ++ | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | i would like to see better revocations | 18:50 |
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| morganfainberg | so yes this would be a nice-to-have in kilo if we can really solve it | 18:50 |
| amakarov | so the solution is: 1) add group to revocation model; 2) wait for fernet? | 18:50 |
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| amakarov | *rely on fernet (afaik it is complete) | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | amakarov, i think we would need to update the token body format as well | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | to catch PKI tokens | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | we don't want token formats to diverge in functionality too much | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | (at all really) | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | if it's in our tree that is | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | uuid could be solved in much the same way fernet is | 18:51 |
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| amakarov | can we just add group to existing tokens? | 18:52 |
| amakarov | token models | 18:52 |
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| marekd | amakarov: i think lbragstad and dolphm would start to sharpen their knives for you | 18:53 |
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| marekd | i hardly survived federation | 18:53 |
| amakarov | marekd, thanks for the warning )) | 18:54 |
| lbragstad | marekd: :) | 18:54 |
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| amakarov | well, let us put it this way: I'll propose a change and then we discuss it | 18:55 |
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| amakarov | I still don't see obvious solution | 18:55 |
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| morganfainberg | ok i think this conversation can move back to -keystone | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | lets continue there | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | Thanks for coming all! | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | #endmeeting | 18:56 |
| marekd | thanks. | 18:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 18:56:25 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-24-18.03.html | 18:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-24-18.03.txt | 18:56 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-24-18.03.log.html | 18:56 |
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| fungi | mmmmoremeetings | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | howdy infra folks | 19:00 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:00 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:00 |
| AJaeger_ | \o/ | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 24 19:00:24 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:00 | |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:00 |
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| anteaya | never enough meetings | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-17-19.01.html | 19:00 |
| jeblair | this is going to be a very fast-paced meeting today | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #topic Schedule next project renames | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Schedule next project renames (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:00 | |
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| jeblair | we have some to do now, i believe | 19:00 |
| jeblair | at least bindep | 19:00 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:00 |
| notnownikki | o/ | 19:01 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | is gnocchi ready to go too? | 19:01 |
| clarkb | and gnocchi | 19:01 |
| greghaynes | O/ | 19:01 |
| timrc | o/ | 19:01 |
| timrc | Howdy. | 19:01 |
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| fungi | i'm around friday and saturday, whenever everyone else wants it done | 19:01 |
| jhesketh | Morning | 19:01 |
| mrmartin | o/ | 19:01 |
| petertr7 | Hello | 19:01 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I think so, they have a change up to reflect the post rename state | 19:01 |
| asselin | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | how about let's do the renames this friday? | 19:01 |
| fungi | wfm | 19:01 |
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| mordred | o/ | 19:01 |
| anteaya | me too | 19:01 |
| fungi | 1900utc? later? | 19:01 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 19:01 |
| pcrews | o/ | 19:01 |
| cody-somerville | \o_ | 19:01 |
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| cinerama | party time in meeting city | 19:02 |
| zehicle | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | would 2100 or 2200 be okay? | 19:02 |
| anteaya | sure | 19:02 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | yep, that's fine for me too | 19:02 |
| anteaya | either is fine with me | 19:02 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 19:02 |
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| * SergeyLukjanov hereo/ | 19:03 | |
| jeblair | #agreed next renames 2200 utc friday mar 27 | 19:03 |
| jeblair | someone want to send an email? | 19:03 |
| fungi | i can | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #action fungi send announcement email for renames | 19:03 |
| fungi | i'll put together a plan etherpad for it too | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| jeblair | I'm going to try to timebox the priority efforts to just a few minutes each so that we can get to our backlog. If there are no issues blocking the effort that we need to discuss, let's just move on quickly. | 19:03 |
| anteaya | fungi: cool, thanks | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Swift logs) | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:enable_swift,n,z | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| jhesketh | Nothing to discuss afaik, just rolling forward | 19:04 |
| jeblair | cool, thanks! | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:dib-nodepool,n,z | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
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| mordred | this has done well | 19:04 |
| jeblair | mordred, fungi: anything to discuss? | 19:04 |
| clarkb | not much here other than reviewing more tests and the bindep move and shade changes | 19:04 |
| mordred | gone | 19:04 |
| fungi | the bindep additions still need reviews (infra-core can actually +2 those as of last week), and i have a few more patches to write. no new blockers | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | ah yeah, i have forgotten to bindep. thanks for the reminder | 19:05 |
| anteaya | fungi: does bindep have to be in a certain state before it moves? | 19:05 |
| fungi | anteaya: nope | 19:05 |
| anteaya | k | 19:05 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) | 19:05 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:zanata,n,z | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| cinerama | oh hai. so we're making steady progress | 19:05 |
| anteaya | pleia2: is away | 19:05 |
| anteaya | I think she said just reviews | 19:06 |
| clarkb | I just reviewed a stack of zanata related puppet | 19:06 |
| clarkb | cinerama: ^ let me know if you have questions about m comments | 19:06 |
| fungi | i should do the same | 19:06 |
| jeblair | and stevenk has started a patch to install the client via puppet | 19:06 |
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| cinerama | only thing i really want to flag at the mo is that https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165696/ needs to be deployed prior to us firing up zanata | 19:06 |
| fungi | thanks cinerama | 19:06 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/165696 | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | how do we make sure that's deployed? | 19:06 |
| cinerama | (tldr it's a change required for openstackid.org) | 19:07 |
| fungi | i think mrmartin/smarcet need to tag a new release | 19:07 |
| cinerama | i'm new to this game so i don't know how we do upgradey things | 19:07 |
| mrmartin | fungi: am I? | 19:07 |
| clarkb | cinerama: we can fire up zanata it just won't let us login right? | 19:07 |
| fungi | mrmartin: smarcet i guess? | 19:07 |
| jeblair | cinerama: we're all new to openstackid :) | 19:07 |
| mrmartin | fungi: I can, if I know what we are releasing | 19:07 |
| cinerama | clarkb: yeah that's it. just need to let openstackid recognize a broader range of request strings so the libs zanata uses for openid will work | 19:08 |
| fungi | but point being 165696 needs to appear in a tag on that repo so it will get deployed into production | 19:08 |
| fungi | presumably it's just on master for now | 19:08 |
| jeblair | fungi: do we deploy specific tags, or... what? | 19:08 |
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| cinerama | no rush since we need the other stuff to be ready first | 19:08 |
| cinerama | otoh having it in place earlier won't actually hurt anything | 19:08 |
| * tchaypo waves | 19:09 | |
| fungi | jeblair: yeah, production deploys updates on each new tag while teh dev server deploys tip of master if memory serves. is that correct mrmartin? | 19:09 |
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| mrmartin | correct | 19:09 |
| cinerama | that's good to know - so we can just point it at openstackid-dev.o.o for now? | 19:09 |
| fungi | cinerama: yes, should work | 19:09 |
| jeblair | i wonder how we do that, but i will learn about that on my own time :) | 19:09 |
| cinerama | fungi: super | 19:09 |
| samueldmq | hi o/ (late, sorry) | 19:09 |
| fungi | jeblair: puppet magics | 19:09 |
| mrmartin | cinerama: but be careful, because the profile db behind openstackid-dev.o.o can be a bit old | 19:10 |
| mrmartin | so it is not sure that your account exists there. | 19:10 |
| Rockyg | good info to capture in infra doc... | 19:10 |
| jeblair | Rockyg: yeah, i was thinking we should update http://ci.openstack.org/openstackid.html with deployment info | 19:10 |
| jeblair | i want to learn about it anyway so... | 19:10 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:11 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair document openstack id deployment mechanism in http://ci.openstack.org/openstackid.html | 19:11 |
| fungi | agreed. right now it's comingled with basic documentation of the software itself | 19:11 |
| Rockyg | kewl | 19:11 |
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| mrmartin | if you want to integrate openstackid I suggest to do it with a local dev version first, it is easier to track the logs | 19:11 |
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| fungi | there is a separate change proposed to get the software documentation added and published for openstackid | 19:11 |
| mrmartin | as I know smarcet is working on an integration doc for that. | 19:11 |
| jeblair | this was useful :) anything else on this topic? | 19:11 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/165199 | 19:11 |
| cinerama | mrmartin: good thinking there. on my local setup here i have an openstackid server setup | 19:11 |
| fungi | for reference | 19:12 |
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| cinerama | nothing else to report on zanata - i just need to integrate and/or argue about everyone's feedback :) | 19:12 |
| jeblair | cinerama: cool, thanks! | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:downstream-puppet,n,z | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
| anteaya | looks like just reviews required | 19:13 |
| nibalizer | yep | 19:13 |
| jeblair | anteaya: agreed | 19:13 |
| clarkb | so I have been reviewing them and very few actualy have the topic set | 19:13 |
| nibalizer | this one keeps needing rebases https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162830/ | 19:13 |
| yolanda | in the same line, there are pending reviews for puppet-pupet and puppet-bandersnatch | 19:13 |
| jeblair | clarkb: oh that'll do it | 19:13 |
| clarkb | so would be good if you are workign on related items to use the topic | 19:13 |
| anteaya | clarkb: + | 19:14 |
| asselin | clarkb, I think you can update the topic | 19:14 |
| fungi | puppet-puppet is our latest ouroboros i guess | 19:14 |
| clarkb | I think asselin's make puppet-openstackci and nibalizer merge template and base are the only changes I saw there | 19:14 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: good point, we should try to land that soon | 19:14 |
| anteaya | fungi: openstackci-openstackci is fun one too | 19:14 |
| clarkb | asselin: I can, but I am not going to hunt all of these changes down. I am just noticing that in my list of things to review there are very few changes | 19:14 |
| asselin | clarkb, ok I see | 19:14 |
| jeblair | anteaya: it should be puppet-openstackci | 19:14 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: that's what I thought too | 19:15 |
| clarkb | jeblair: anteaya and the puppetforge name is openstackinfra-openstackci | 19:15 |
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| asselin | jeblair, clarkb suggested openstackinfra-openstackci | 19:15 |
| jeblair | yolanda: set the topics to "downstream-puppet" for the puppet and bandorsnatch changes | 19:15 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165588/4/metadata.json | 19:15 |
| yolanda | ok | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | yeah, i think our local repos have "puppet-foo" as the name, but they end up as "openstackinfra-foo" on the forge | 19:15 |
| clarkb | asselin: anteaya the repo should be puppet-openstackci, the puppetforge name is openstackinfra-openstackci | 19:15 |
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| yolanda | jeblair, shall i do the same for changes intended to make modules more reusable? | 19:15 |
| anteaya | clarkb: ah thank you | 19:15 |
| anteaya | clarkb: it is correct now | 19:16 |
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| asselin | clarkb, what about all the other modules? seems they're all wrong? | 19:16 |
| jeblair | yolanda: i think so. | 19:16 |
| notnownikki | i can update the topics on the bandersnatch changes, yolanda | 19:16 |
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| yolanda | k | 19:16 |
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| clarkb | asselin: yes they need to be updated | 19:16 |
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| nibalizer | asselin: yep | 19:17 |
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| jeblair | clarkb, asselin: where are they wrong? | 19:17 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: in the metadata.json files | 19:17 |
| notnownikki | topics changed | 19:17 |
| jeblair | ah yeah | 19:17 |
| jeblair | so nibalizer and i are working through publishing the httpd module | 19:17 |
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| nibalizer | jeblair: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-logstash/tree/metadata.json#n2 should be openstackinfra | 19:17 |
| jeblair | let's finish working through that module before we make metadata changes to the others | 19:18 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: ok | 19:18 |
| jeblair | in case we find we have more to do | 19:18 |
| asselin | fungi, still have your mass update script? | 19:18 |
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| fungi | asselin: in my head anyway | 19:18 |
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| anteaya | safe there | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | anything else on this? | 19:19 |
| fungi | there's not much to iterating over a list of projects matching a regex and then running sed -i in each and commiting/pushing via git-review | 19:19 |
| anteaya | not from me | 19:19 |
| asselin | no | 19:19 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: nope | 19:19 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) | 19:19 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:askbot-site,n,z | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:19 | |
| mrmartin | ok, so two reviews waiting here | 19:19 |
| mrmartin | I found the Chinese solr issue, and there was a missing cron job | 19:19 |
| mrmartin | so we are on good track again | 19:20 |
| fungi | yeah, evgeny suggested a few additional things for us to check/test during the eval time, so that helped | 19:20 |
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| fungi | thanks for knocking those out mrmartin | 19:20 |
| mrmartin | I guess we need to do add a backup, and as fungi suggested the local backup scripts | 19:20 |
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| mrmartin | I have only one question here, do we have pgsql-backup for bup similar to mysql-backup? | 19:20 |
| jeblair | yeah, we have an existing pattern with mysql dbs where we do a local database backup to disk, then that gets backed up by the system backup | 19:21 |
| fungi | aside from the chinese search problem, the rest are non-user-facing so i don't think we need to extend the eval time unless you do | 19:21 |
| fungi | mrmartin: if you're asking whether pgsql-backup exists yet, not to my knowledge | 19:21 |
| clarkb | mrmartin: you would need to add postgresql specific local backups, but once you have that the bup backups will pick it up | 19:21 |
| jeblair | mrmartin: i don't think we have backed up a pg database yet, so we will have to develop some new puppet for that | 19:21 |
| jeblair | how's that for triangulating an answer? :) | 19:21 |
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| anteaya | nice | 19:21 |
| clarkb | you can likely use the mysql backup manifest as a good template, just change the command and output file as appropriate | 19:22 |
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| mrmartin | awesome, so we have two options here, add a simple cron script to backup, or the nice one to create the missing pgsql bup that can be reused later. | 19:22 |
| fungi | the basic dump command is already in the migrate spec too | 19:22 |
| jeblair | mrmartin: i think our mysql backups actually just add a cron script | 19:22 |
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| mrmartin | the original ask deployment contains a cron scheduled backup script, so we can reuse that very quickly | 19:23 |
| jeblair | oh i see | 19:23 |
| mrmartin | and bup will backup those files too | 19:23 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yup and logrotate to keep a few iteratons around | 19:23 |
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| mrmartin | so in case of a restore situation, we have a proper sql dataset. | 19:23 |
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| fungi | probably the one improvement i'd be interested in seeing to the original script on the current production ask.o.o is to rotate multiple db dumps like we do for mysql | 19:23 |
| fungi | but that's not critical to have day 1 | 19:23 |
| mrmartin | ok, I check the mysql bup too, if it not seems to be too complicated, I do it quickly | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | mrmartin: sounds like a plan | 19:24 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) | 19:24 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:gerrit-upgrade,n,z | 19:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:24 | |
| fungi | we're on trusty now! | 19:24 |
| jeblair | yay we're on trusty! :) | 19:24 |
| tchaypo | wooo | 19:24 |
| jeblair | next step is "Gerrit 2.9 upgrade Saturday May 9, 2015" | 19:25 |
| anteaya | has there been any bugs? | 19:25 |
| anteaya | I haven' seen any | 19:25 |
| fungi | we still need to dig into why the utf-8 update failed | 19:25 |
| anteaya | ah that | 19:25 |
| fungi | and possibly retry that on friday | 19:25 |
| clarkb | and trusty git doesn't do shallow clones? | 19:25 |
| fungi | right, that | 19:25 |
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| fungi | well, the git-http-backend cgi anyway | 19:25 |
| jeblair | so the utf-8 thing needs a bit more planning | 19:25 |
| zaro | we can a script to convert tables, ready to go. | 19:26 |
| jeblair | it seems it will involve table modifications, so we need to test with the actual production dataset | 19:26 |
| zaro | *we can/we have | 19:26 |
| jeblair | zaro: can we get you a copy of that for you to work with so you can test it out? | 19:26 |
| fungi | can we dump/source it into a new trove instance and then try there? | 19:27 |
| fungi | or is going it on a local mysqld fine? | 19:27 |
| fungi | er, doing | 19:27 |
| jeblair | i think a local mysql and a local gerrit should be fine | 19:27 |
| clarkb | considering our mysql instance is mysql 5.1 we probably want something similar? | 19:27 |
| clarkb | unsure of how much mysql version affects row data encoding | 19:27 |
| zaro | yes, can do | 19:27 |
| jeblair | #action zaro test utf8 conversion with production database and local mysql/gerrit 2.8 | 19:28 |
| jeblair | zaro: i put 2.8 ^ there since we're talking about doing this before the 2.9 upgrade, so we should make sure to test it with the current version | 19:28 |
| zaro | sounds good | 19:28 |
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| anteaya | zaro: the review queue for the patches is just review them, yes? | 19:29 |
| fungi | zaro: i can get the database dump to wherever you need it | 19:29 |
| jeblair | if that's ready to go by friday, cool; if now, we'll do it the next time -- i don't want to rush it and mess up our data | 19:29 |
| anteaya | agreed | 19:29 |
| jeblair | zaro: thanks! | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | #topic Election tooling (tristanC) | 19:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Election tooling (tristanC) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:30 | |
| zaro | anteaya: don't understand your question | 19:30 |
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| anteaya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scaling-election-tooling | 19:30 |
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| fungi | tristanC is on vacation this week i believe | 19:30 |
| anteaya | well I wrote the etherpad | 19:30 |
| anteaya | so let me know your thoughts | 19:30 |
| anteaya | bascially as I explain on the etherpad the current election tooling doesn't scale | 19:30 |
| anteaya | and for the sake of both the election officials and the electorate it needs to | 19:31 |
| anteaya | this is a proposal to address that need | 19:31 |
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| anteaya | zaro: was just saying you aren't blocked on any gerrit patches, youjust need reviews to happen | 19:31 |
| jeblair | the foundation has a system for nominating people for board elections; i think it would be cool to use that for other elections too | 19:32 |
| anteaya | and let's remember that when using an etherpad it is considered friendly to others to put your name in the top right hand corner | 19:32 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: great, how can we evaluate that system? | 19:32 |
| anteaya | jeblair: I dno't know it | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: maybe it's part of the foundation web site? | 19:33 |
| anteaya | oh | 19:33 |
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| anteaya | I'm hesitant to use something we don't have control over in infra | 19:33 |
| fungi | so the specific infra items being proposed for discussion: 1. git repos for nomination and platform info, 2. some publication mechanism for the same? | 19:33 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:34 |
| jeblair | yeah, but i think it's worth acknowledging that there's a need that might be filled by work the foundation has already done | 19:34 |
| anteaya | that would be a reasonable tl;dr | 19:34 |
| anteaya | okay I'm fine with acknowledging that | 19:34 |
| fungi | just making sure we have actual topics to discuss rather than something nebulous | 19:34 |
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| anteaya | no idea what the next step would be to investigate it | 19:34 |
| anteaya | fungi: yes, topics are helpful | 19:34 |
| jeblair | fungi: i'm interested in the conversation that lead us to thinking that election nominations via git repo are a solution | 19:35 |
| anteaya | the publication mechnisim was let a need and more an extention of using a git repo | 19:35 |
| anteaya | well it lead me to thinking | 19:35 |
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| fungi | jeblair: i missed the conversation myself, only commented on the etherpad after i saw it | 19:35 |
| jeblair | it feels like git repos are the only tool we have and i'm wondering is there any other tools in that box over there | 19:35 |
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| anteaya | since this is the first opportunity it has come beofre any group that could constitute an us | 19:35 |
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| anteaya | there was no conversation | 19:36 |
| jeblair | anteaya: are you open to conversations about other solutions, or do you want only to discuss the mechanics of the proposal in the etherpad? | 19:36 |
| anteaya | I took a walk and realized git repos scale, and then wrote the etherpad | 19:36 |
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| anteaya | oh by all means let's discuss | 19:36 |
| fungi | okay, so it's more of a straw man proposal | 19:36 |
| anteaya | but it has taken 3 weeks to get a discussion | 19:36 |
| fungi | definitely good as a starting point | 19:37 |
| anteaya | and this is the only way I figured I could get the space to talk about it | 19:37 |
| jeblair | ya, sorry, but we did better today :) | 19:37 |
| anteaya | we did | 19:37 |
| anteaya | thank you | 19:37 |
| anteaya | so yes, discuss away | 19:37 |
| anteaya | election officals need to retain their sanity | 19:37 |
| anteaya | electorate need confidence in what is going on | 19:37 |
| fungi | i agree being able to reuse the nomination system would be cool, since it already has a way to link your foundation profile to your nomination | 19:37 |
| anteaya | those are the only two stipulations in the solution | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | okay, so i've suggested the alternative of trying to adapt the foundation election system to support other elections. that is not easy because it's not (yet) an open development model and would require some code | 19:37 |
| anteaya | we have missed this round anyway | 19:38 |
| anteaya | as they had to make a decision to communicate to the electorate | 19:38 |
| jeblair | probably talking with foundation folks about the progress of that and what would be involved would be useful | 19:38 |
| anteaya | so we have until next fall | 19:38 |
| jeblair | may not be much more to say about that here :) | 19:38 |
| anteaya | but we do need something | 19:38 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: fair enough | 19:38 |
| anteaya | anyone with any other thoughts? | 19:39 |
| anteaya | you are welcome to add them to the etherpad | 19:39 |
| clarkb | jeblair: anteaya if we send something to the infra list about that we can poke people to go read it | 19:39 |
| anteaya | as a point of communication | 19:39 |
| jeblair | clarkb: sounds like a plan | 19:39 |
| fungi | so to step back, the specific problem we're trying to address is "it's messy and time consuming to have nominations posted to the ml, confirmed, and platform statements/q&a pasted into a wiki article by a small team of election officials" | 19:39 |
| clarkb | and/or we can point at the etherpad if we add the option there | 19:39 |
| * ianw will not mention storing candidates in a bitcoin side-chain :) | 19:39 | |
| anteaya | fungi: well it is overwhelming now | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | ianw: creative! :) | 19:39 |
| anteaya | fungi: plus having stackforge use the same process confuses the electorate | 19:39 |
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| anteaya | as they keep thinking the election has started and they missed it | 19:40 |
| jeblair | i keep thinking that too | 19:40 |
| anteaya | so the tool needs to be clear to the electorate which are govenered elections and which aren't | 19:40 |
| clarkb | anteaya: I don't think your proposed system fixes that though | 19:40 |
| fungi | wait, what, we haven't? ;) | 19:40 |
| anteaya | clarkb: fair enough | 19:40 |
| anteaya | let's do better | 19:40 |
| anteaya | and yes | 19:41 |
| anteaya | haveing more elections to administer is hard to do | 19:41 |
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| anteaya | hence the sanity for officials bit | 19:41 |
| anteaya | thanks for listening, we can come back to this again | 19:41 |
| jeblair | anteaya: i do think the git repo does solve a lot of problems; it may be the most expedient method of scaling this | 19:41 |
| anteaya | and yes more ideas and communication welcome | 19:41 |
| anteaya | jeblair: that is what I thought | 19:41 |
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| anteaya | we don't have to build a thing | 19:42 |
| anteaya | and git scales | 19:42 |
| jeblair | anteaya: i think it will need a lot of details worked out | 19:42 |
| anteaya | jeblair: fair enough | 19:42 |
| anteaya | acl permissions for one | 19:42 |
| fungi | maybe a list of features a solution needs/tasks it should handle is a better place to start (a requirements document of sorts) rather than jumping right into designing something | 19:42 |
| clarkb | fungi: +1 | 19:42 |
| anteaya | sure | 19:42 |
| anteaya | I welcome help on doing that | 19:42 |
| jeblair | fungi: yes, i think there was some of that in the etherpad, but not organized as such | 19:42 |
| anteaya | as I may be too close to the issue to think broadly enough | 19:42 |
| jeblair | so let's work on a good problem statement + requirements | 19:43 |
| fungi | agreed. possibly with less focus on what we're doing now that doesn't work so well | 19:43 |
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| anteaya | sure | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | and then push that to the infra list and follow it up with any broad ideas we have for addressing them | 19:43 |
| anteaya | so thanks for the time and support here | 19:43 |
| fungi | i mean, those are lessons learned that we need to use when considering solutions, but not necessarily requirements themselves | 19:43 |
| anteaya | true | 19:43 |
| tchaypo | Linux Australia has a thing called memberdb that I think does most of what we need | 19:43 |
| tchaypo | but from memory it’s either a messy pile of perl, or a messy pile of python translated from perl a decade ago | 19:44 |
| jhesketh | err, I would not advocate for memberdb | 19:44 |
| anteaya | tchaypo: cool, I'd be interested in knowing more | 19:44 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: ah okay | 19:44 |
| tchaypo | LA themselves are trying to get rid of it :) | 19:44 |
| jeblair | yeah, running our own election system is another interesting solution | 19:44 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:44 |
| ianw | tchaypo: weren't they looking at getting rid of that? | 19:44 |
| jhesketh | well perhaps it's a contender, but it would need serious work | 19:44 |
| tchaypo | but it sounds like we have similar sets of requirements.. | 19:44 |
| anteaya | we don't have to replace condorcet | 19:44 |
| anteaya | it is wonderful | 19:44 |
| jhesketh | not so much get rid of as upgrade | 19:44 |
| anteaya | just the nominations part | 19:44 |
| fungi | well, sounds like we might, but getting that fleshed out is really step 1 | 19:44 |
| tchaypo | let’s shelve that while we investigate git though | 19:45 |
| anteaya | to be clear just nominations is what I am looking at | 19:45 |
| anteaya | our actual app for running the polls is wonderful | 19:45 |
| jhesketh | to be clear, memberdb is horribly broken | 19:45 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: ack | 19:45 |
| fungi | nominations and position/debate details per candidate sounds like | 19:45 |
| tchaypo | I think git should work well for the nominations | 19:45 |
| jhesketh | but that's not to say it can't be fixed | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: i know you want help on this, but i'm going to action you to at least continue driving it :) | 19:45 |
| tchaypo | we have ability for approvals and such in gerrit | 19:46 |
| anteaya | I've taken a lot of time on this and thank you | 19:46 |
| anteaya | jeblair: I'm fine driving | 19:46 |
| jeblair | anteaya: feel free to interpret this as "anteaya convince someone else to..." :) | 19:46 |
| anteaya | but we have seen what I come up with when alone | 19:46 |
| anteaya | jeblair: will do | 19:46 |
| anteaya | so help welcome | 19:46 |
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| anteaya | thanks all | 19:46 |
| jeblair | #action anteaya cause a problem statement and requirements regarding election tooling to be sent to the infra list so various solutions can be discussed | 19:46 |
| * anteaya nods | 19:46 | |
| jeblair | anteaya: and i'll be happy to help with that :) | 19:47 |
| anteaya | thank you :) | 19:47 |
| jeblair | #topic Update bandersnatch (anteaya) | 19:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update bandersnatch (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:47 | |
| anteaya | this is me again | 19:47 |
| anteaya | mostly as driver | 19:47 |
| anteaya | as you can see in the agenda dsufft gave us a warning to update bandersnatch | 19:47 |
| anteaya | I don't know how to do that | 19:47 |
| anteaya | but I do know how to copy paste to an agenda | 19:48 |
| anteaya | so do we want to do that? | 19:48 |
| jeblair | do we CD bandersnatch? | 19:48 |
| clarkb | we should, its likely as simple as ensure => latest on our bandersnatch install with puppet | 19:48 |
| clarkb | I can look into that | 19:48 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:48 |
| jeblair | also, worth checking if we have "-U" on that :) | 19:48 |
| anteaya | that's all from me | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | #action clarkb make sure bandersnatch is being updated | 19:49 |
| jeblair | #topic Puppet Style | 19:49 |
| fungi | yeah, last time i manually upgraded the 4 servers | 19:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Puppet Style (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:49 | |
| nibalizer | yea iss ensuure => present right now | 19:49 |
| jeblair | speaking of => | 19:49 |
| nibalizer | so this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164819/ | 19:49 |
| fungi | mainly so that we could downgrade again easily if it turned out to be broken | 19:49 |
| fungi | stylish! | 19:50 |
| jeblair | i'm inclined to lean toward sticking with the predominant puppet style for the moment | 19:50 |
| nibalizer | i think we've got some oppinions there | 19:50 |
| jeblair | i don't actually agree with the rules | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | but i also think we've written some terrible puppet in the past, and we're trying to write some better puppet now | 19:50 |
| nibalizer | seems like the infra cores are in agreeent, and the people more heaviliy involved with the greater puppet community are in agreement | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | and when we go out to tell people that they are doing module versioning wrong, i don't want our lack of arrow alignment to cause them to not take us seriously :) | 19:51 |
| clarkb | I think the trouble here is the people doing the review are predominantly the cores | 19:51 |
| clarkb | and this is a problem with reviewing code | 19:51 |
| anteaya | I think adhereing to community style allows new people from the community to help us, rather than isolating us | 19:51 |
| nibalizer | i agree with anteaya | 19:51 |
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| nibalizer | will infra-cloud puppet live in system-config or outside? | 19:51 |
| mordred | nibalizer: stackforge | 19:51 |
| clarkb | so you have two camps which fall along lines of how much trouble is this to review | 19:51 |
| mordred | nibalizer: we're going to use the stackforge puppet modules | 19:51 |
| nibalizer | no i mean the composition layer | 19:52 |
| fungi | i definitely don't find aligned columnar whitespace (beyond indentation) to be more readable. quite the contrary. but i'll concede that it's mostly a product of what you spend most of your time staring at | 19:52 |
| mordred | nibalizer: oh - that'll be us | 19:52 |
| mordred | I don't think the rocketship alignment helps | 19:52 |
| mordred | BUT | 19:52 |
| mordred | I also don't mind it | 19:52 |
| cinerama | it also makes the changes noisy and wastes time | 19:52 |
| mordred | it doesn't bother me as much as others in my own brain | 19:52 |
| cinerama | but if that's what upstream do then i guess it is good to do it | 19:52 |
| nibalizer | lifting the restriction and allowing style to float will create inconsistency and that will be the most gross thing imho | 19:52 |
| mordred | so I could be on board with ditching or with keeping | 19:52 |
| jeblair | cinerama: what makes changes noisy? | 19:52 |
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| jeblair | cinerama: (just want to be sure i understand what you're saying) | 19:53 |
| nibalizer | lifting the restriction and changing the entire codebase is a huge flurry of changes | 19:53 |
| cinerama | jeblair: if one paramenter changes or is added then the spacing must be fixed for every line in that definition | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: oh yeah, i think we would not change the codebase, just let it drift over time. | 19:53 |
| jeblair | cinerama: ah yes, i agree. that's the very thing that prompted the proposal in fact. | 19:53 |
| notnownikki | which is going to get read the most, the diffs or the resulting manifest? I'd go with making the most read one more readable. so I'm for keeping the alignment | 19:54 |
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| clarkb | thats interesting, I predominantly read diffs :) | 19:54 |
| nibalizer | again i feel that I should say that the gerrit ui uses dark/light green to show when a text blob has been changed instead of just moved | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | notnownikki: i hope the diffs, actually. :) | 19:54 |
| nibalizer | so all the light green text in puppet is colored different than the line that was added/modified | 19:54 |
| notnownikki | jeblair, clarkb, but you're core :) we want to attract newbies | 19:54 |
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| notnownikki | and when we're making modules reusable... | 19:55 |
| notnownikki | for downstream consumption | 19:55 |
| cinerama | ftr i am not a core and i agree with those folks | 19:55 |
| notnownikki | manifest readability matters | 19:55 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: yes, so does gertty. that's just a small part of the issue. it still requires someone to see and parse that information. | 19:55 |
| fungi | whether or not aligned operators is more readable is mostly a matter of personal taste | 19:55 |
| ianw | i would say that emacs puppet-mode does by default doesn't seem to work with openstack puppet; it always wants to indent differently. not sure if the spaces are confusing it but maybe this helps | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | FWIW: I do prefer the puppet lint checks | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | so we do not have consensus now, and there are good arguments on either side | 19:56 |
| jeblair | i think we should put this to rest and leave it as is for now. | 19:56 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:56 |
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| nibalizer | to throw a wet mordred at the probleme, I could go to the place in git where the official puppet style guide is and propose lifting the arrow operator alignment requirement there | 19:56 |
| SpamapS | consensus is overrated. ;) | 19:56 |
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| anteaya | nibalizer: good luck with that | 19:57 |
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| mordred | wow. I've become a thing someone throws at something now. I suppose I had that coming | 19:57 |
| fungi | we might also consider whether it's something we care about for modules published to the forge, but not for system-config | 19:57 |
| clarkb | I think it is also worth noting that we don't do everything that pep8 tells us to do | 19:57 |
| clarkb | or what hacking tells us to do | 19:57 |
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| pabelanger | fungi, I would agree with that statement | 19:57 |
| anteaya | nibalizer: but I'm in just to see you toss a wet mordred | 19:57 |
| clarkb | puppet isn't being signled out as a special thing here, adapting format practices to local needs is common | 19:57 |
| jeblair | i may, at some point in the distant future, bring this up again when i believe everyone here has reviewed enough puppet to think like i do. :) | 19:57 |
| mordred | clarkb: we _DO_ do everything pep8 the spec tells us to do | 19:57 |
| notnownikki | fungi, yeah i'd go for that | 19:57 |
| mordred | clarkb: just not pep8 the overreaching lint tool | 19:57 |
| mordred | jeblair: :) | 19:57 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: +1 for resting | 19:58 |
| jeblair | so does anyone object with keeping the status quo for now in order to achieve maximum average harmony? :) | 19:58 |
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| fungi | i expect mordred plans to solve this dilemma by replacing it with a bunch of yaml | 19:58 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:58 |
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| nibalizer | fungi: basically | 19:58 |
| mrmartin | :) | 19:58 |
| anteaya | + status quo | 19:58 |
| clarkb | I am fine with aligned rockets, I have dealt with them for years :) | 19:58 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: (and i do like your wet mordred idea ;) | 19:58 |
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| fungi | i'm in favor of revisiting at a later date | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | #agreed stick with aligned rockets for now | 19:59 |
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| mordred | fungi: actually ... in-tree hiera DOES fix large portions of this with yaml | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | #secretplan wait until more people are reviewing puppet and see the light | 19:59 |
| fungi | however it's not applied to system-config at the moment. i assume sticking with the status quo means leaving it not running for that repo | 19:59 |
| jeblair | fungi: ha! how did that happen? | 19:59 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ status quo means status quo | 19:59 |
| ttx | I see some light | 20:00 |
| fungi | jeblair: i think you ragedeleted it at one point, but i'd have to check git log ;) | 20:00 |
| anteaya | ttx is that the time? | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks all :) | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| pabelanger | rocket alignment, clearly the platform needed to move to ansible | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 20:00:28 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-24-19.00.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-24-19.00.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-24-19.00.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | but the tunnel is pretty long | 20:00 |
| anteaya | 'tis | 20:00 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| adrian_otto | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | Experiencing pretty bad lag, hopefully will get better | 20:01 |
| mikal | Hi | 20:01 |
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| jeblair | o/ | 20:01 |
| serg_mel_ | Hi, o/ | 20:01 |
| devananda | sort of here, but really at a conference dinner | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | russellb, jgriffith, annegentle, jaypipes, sdague : around ? | 20:01 |
| mordred | I have agreed to be devananda if needed | 20:02 |
| ttx | Russell is on in-flight wifi or not | 20:02 |
| devananda | I approve of mordred being me if needed (and I'm likely to drop anyway, because wireless here is very spotty) | 20:02 |
| ttx | We have quorum anyway | 20:02 |
| * sarob lurking | 20:02 | |
| * mordred throws a fluffy milk cow at sarob | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 24 20:02:49 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
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| ttx | If I disappear due to network issues, just pretent I'm here and continue | 20:03 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
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| ttx | #topic Final rubberstamping for library stable release procedures/policy | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Final rubberstamping for library stable release procedures/policy (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155072/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | I put a question mark on that one because it doesn't have the usual pile up of +1s | 20:03 |
| ttx | So it's more questionable than usual that it reached enough "consensus" for us to rubberstamp | 20:03 |
| ttx | That said, it's a niche topic, so a lot of people just don't care | 20:04 |
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| ttx | Also, it's describing the process we are already following for Kilo cycle final stage | 20:04 |
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| ttx | so I'd argue it's better to approve it (and refine it if necessary in the future) than pretend it's not there | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | although we do need the ptls for projects with client libraries to follow it, too | 20:04 |
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| ttx | All people that had -1s in the past have reverted them to +1 later, except jeblair | 20:04 |
| ttx | so I'm at least waiting on that | 20:04 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: do you think we should technically wait a bit more ? | 20:05 |
| ttx | Like raise a ML thread to push it over the edge ? | 20:05 |
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| ttx | We discussed it twice at the cross-project meeting already | 20:05 |
| mikal | Is the goal to follow this for Kilo? | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | mikal: yes | 20:05 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: at this point it seems a bit pointless to wait, but we can if you think that's going to mean more people understand it | 20:06 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: we could send an email about the process we'll follow in kilo to the ML -- inadvertantly mentioning that it's the one being under review as a spec anyway | 20:06 |
| mikal | I assume there will be reminders towards the end of a release cycle to do these things? | 20:06 |
| * mikal worries about forgetful future me | 20:07 | |
| ttx | we need a ML post at some point anyway | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok, I thought I posted once about it already but I can do it again | 20:07 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: if you posted something already, I may have mlissed it, maybe no point in doing it again | 20:07 |
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| ttx | I'm fine passing it if we can get 7 TC members to approve it | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | ttx: the thread I'm finding was tagged [oslo] so I'll start another | 20:08 |
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| ttx | worst case scenario we'll revise it | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-December/051874.html | 20:08 |
| ttx | I'm fine with both options (thread or pass now) | 20:08 |
| mikal | So you need three more +2's then | 20:08 |
| ttx | what's the other TC members take ? | 20:08 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: my vote was go with it | 20:09 |
| mikal | I think you should merge it | 20:09 |
| jgriffith | mikal: +1 | 20:09 |
| ttx | jeblair: you fine reverting your past -1 ? | 20:09 |
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| jeblair | ttx: it was for an (important) clarification, so probably okay. but i have not read the latest revision yet, sorry. | 20:10 |
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| jeblair | ttx: (as in, i don't think i saw any major obstacles once i understood it) | 20:10 |
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| ttx | OK, let's do both approaches then. I'll approve once it gets 7 TC yes (hopefully later this week) *and* let's have a thread to communicate the kilo strategy anyway | 20:11 |
| ttx | (one not blocking the other) | 20:11 |
| * dhellmann is composing that email right now | 20:11 | |
| ttx | sounds good ? | 20:11 |
| jgriffith | ttx: works for me | 20:12 |
| jeblair | + | 20:12 |
| ttx | ok, let's move on | 20:12 |
| ttx | #topic Magnum - OpenStack Containers Service | 20:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Magnum - OpenStack Containers Service (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:12 | |
| * adrian_otto is here for any Magnum related questions | 20:12 | |
| ttx | This is a proposed project addition: | 20:12 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/161080 | 20:12 |
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| ttx | We discussed it a couple weeks ago | 20:12 |
| ttx | My personal feeling is that this project team behaves like "one of us" | 20:12 |
| markmcclain | ++ | 20:12 |
| ttx | The only part we could question is whether they really help further the OpenStack Mission, and I think they help with the "platform" part... | 20:13 |
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| ttx | ...without diluting the value of existing key components. | 20:13 |
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| ttx | so I'm +1 | 20:13 |
| jgriffith | +2 | 20:13 |
| vishy | +1 | 20:13 |
| ttx | questions, comments ? | 20:13 |
| mikal | So, I missed the meeting last time we discussed this | 20:13 |
| mikal | Remind me why we didn't +1 then? | 20:14 |
| * sdake__ here for magnum Q's as well | 20:14 | |
| ttx | mikal: I think there were concerns whether we should freeze approvals | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | ttx: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/059811.html for reference on the previous topic | 20:14 |
| ttx | and we clarified that last week | 20:14 |
| mikal | Oh, so process not magnum itself? | 20:14 |
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| agentle | mikal: right | 20:14 |
| mordred | I'm +1 on this one - I think the are one of us and follow the 4 opens and they're don't do anything that makes me unhappy and adrian_otto is a nice guy | 20:14 |
| ttx | mikal: that was my understanding, maybe others opinion vary | 20:14 |
| mikal | Ok, cool | 20:14 |
| jeblair | and we wanted to look at other applications, but it seems like we only had one other and we did that. :) | 20:15 |
| adrian_otto | ;-) | 20:15 |
| mikal | mordred: he has nice hair too | 20:15 |
| mordred | mikal: this is very true. | 20:15 |
| ttx | Magnum was level 1. Let's move to level 2 | 20:15 |
| anteaya | adrian_otto reached out to me about how to address their elections without placing a burden on current tools | 20:15 |
| mikal | ttx: you have 9 +1's there | 20:15 |
| * dhellmann can't wait to meet adrian_otto now | 20:15 | |
| mordred | adrian_otto: hope your hair doesn't let dhellmann down | 20:15 |
| ttx | alrighty, 30 secondsq left to record your approval | 20:15 |
| adrian_otto | dhellmann: we met in ATL | 20:15 |
| ttx | before I press the button | 20:15 |
| mikal | LOL | 20:15 |
| sdake__ | adrian_otto has fine hair | 20:16 |
| * dhellmann is ashamed | 20:16 | |
| * mordred hands dhellmann a web bunny rabbit of shame | 20:16 | |
| mordred | gah | 20:16 |
| mordred | WET | 20:16 |
| * mordred is ashamed | 20:16 | |
| ttx | now that you mention it -- nice hair is certainly hurting some of our key members pride | 20:16 |
| mikal | You got the bunny wet? | 20:16 |
| ttx | which definitely counts as "not one of us" | 20:16 |
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| mordred | ttx: should we only accept projects with bad hair? | 20:16 |
| mikal | We could get TC toupes? | 20:16 |
| ttx | ok, approved | 20:16 |
| ttx | mordred: or bald guys | 20:16 |
| anteaya | bald women too? | 20:17 |
| ttx | adrian_otto: you're in! | 20:17 |
| agentle | +1 anteaya | 20:17 |
| mordred | anteaya: absolutely | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | adrian_otto: I'm not sure whether to offer congratulations or condolences ;-) | 20:17 |
| * sarob is in trouble | 20:17 | |
| ttx | Welcome to the tent | 20:17 |
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| anteaya | okay then | 20:17 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: LOL | 20:17 |
| agentle | come in out of the rain (or something?) | 20:17 |
| mordred | so far this meeting is winning best TC meeting | 20:17 |
| * dhellmann wonders what was in everyone's coffee today | 20:17 | |
| sdake__ | dhellman both ;) | 20:17 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I may have poured powerful drugs in the water supply this morning | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | sdake__: too true! :-) | 20:18 |
| jeblair | who else is doing a google image search for adrian otto and marveling at the fact that _all_ adrian ottos have amazing hair? | 20:18 |
| ttx | #topic Add a tag for affiliation diversity | 20:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add a tag for affiliation diversity (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:18 | |
| AJaeger_ | adrian_otto: please propose a patch to project-config to move the repos in the openstack namespace quickly. We have a rename sscheduled | 20:18 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/163851 | 20:18 |
| adrian_otto | AJaeger_: yes sir. | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: it comes with access to that namespace | 20:18 |
| ttx | More happiness all around! Great work going on here | 20:18 |
| jeblair | adrian_otto, AJaeger_: next rename is scheduled for friday | 20:18 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, we will act on that swiftly. | 20:19 |
| ttx | The diversity tag is almost good to go, minor comments from anne and me | 20:19 |
| jeblair | (if we miss it, we'll do it in a couple weeks) | 20:19 |
| agentle | really like the data-driven diversityt ag | 20:19 |
| agentle | tag even | 20:19 |
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| ttx | liek I think a project were 2 orgs represent more than 80% or 90% of contributors could be considered "not diverse" the same way a project where one org has >50% is | 20:19 |
| mordred | so - I don't want to be a wet blanket on the otherwise awesome meeting | 20:19 |
| mordred | because I like this tag in many ways | 20:20 |
| mordred | HOWEVER | 20:20 |
| ttx | fear the wet mordred | 20:20 |
| mordred | there is an implication in it that corporate affiliation matters | 20:20 |
| mordred | in that it implies that because I work for HP I am working for HP's motives | 20:20 |
| mordred | and, while I understand and agree with the intent | 20:20 |
| * devananda hands mordred a towel to dry off | 20:20 | |
| mordred | I do want to register taht I do not, inf act, make technical decisions based on HP's goals | 20:20 |
| agentle | mordred: I asked for "org" instead of "company" because I feel the same way | 20:20 |
| ttx | Not sure there is such implication | 20:20 |
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| dhellmann | from the sense of the long term viability of a project, it might - if a company walks away from a project and takes their developers, that may hurt the remaining team's ability to continue producing the software | 20:20 |
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| mordred | dhellmann: TOTALLY | 20:21 |
| ttx | mordred: the risk we are talking about here is a company pulling off all resources from a project in one go | 20:21 |
| devananda | mordred: I think the implication is slightly different. it implies that HP could prevent you from working on it any longer, if they chose to stop funding it | 20:21 |
| mordred | like I said, I support the tag | 20:21 |
| jgriffith | mordred: I kinda get what you're saying.. HOWEVER | 20:21 |
| jgriffith | :) | 20:21 |
| mikal | mordred: its about the risk that HP will assign you to a new task though right? | 20:21 |
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| mikal | mordred: not about the decisions you make while assigned somewhere | 20:21 |
| jgriffith | I also think that the whole point is just "data" | 20:21 |
| mordred | mikal: well, they can try that - I'm pretty sure you'd offer me a new job if they did | 20:21 |
| ttx | it's not really about a company controlling a project as much as the brittleness of a project that lacks diversity | 20:21 |
| jgriffith | as per the comment I made, it's not a "judgement" | 20:21 |
| mikal | mordred: sure, but there this is a thing which has happened to other people in the past | 20:21 |
| mordred | yup | 20:21 |
| mordred | totally understand | 20:22 |
| mordred | totally agree | 20:22 |
| agentle | I think it's data driven and people can make their own assessments on whether affiliation means a particular behavior would occur | 20:22 |
| mordred | data is great | 20:22 |
| jeblair | yeah, i think it's useful because it is a signal about how broad the support for a project is in our community | 20:22 |
| ttx | mordred: I bet they wouldn't oiffer a jhob to your whole team though | 20:22 |
| agentle | we'll do gender diversity data next right? :) | 20:22 |
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| ttx | agentle: oh, good one :) | 20:22 |
| mikal | agentle: I can script that one easily... Its just a script which always returns "no". | 20:22 |
| AJaeger_ | agentle: and then geography or age? | 20:22 |
| ttx | mordred: but I see your point | 20:22 |
| agentle | because if I'm a woman I'll behave a certain way (which is what mordred is basically saying is a poor lumping?) | 20:22 |
| jgriffith | I think most folks know mordred *thinks* on is on behalf | 20:22 |
| agentle | heh | 20:22 |
| mordred | I just want to make sure we don't start judging people based on our impressions, good or bad, of their employer | 20:23 |
| mordred | and this seems like one tiny step down that road | 20:23 |
| jgriffith | mordred: very fair point | 20:23 |
| agentle | mordred: I think it's data and judgement occurs. | 20:23 |
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| mordred | I know we're already down it | 20:23 |
| mordred | and I agree with agentle | 20:23 |
| devananda | I think it actually expresses something else very well - we all ignore the agency of individual developers to sustain a project because we (assume, probably correctly) that all openstack developers are paid t owork on openstack | 20:23 |
| * mikal also doesn't want to be the one to have to assign strict genders to people | 20:23 | |
| ttx | mordred: maybe the tag definition could use wording to discourage this usage of the tag | 20:23 |
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| ttx | if it doesn't enough already | 20:23 |
| mordred | ttx: maybe so - I may also be fine just having said it here in channel | 20:23 |
| ttx | i.e. assume good faith and all | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | mordred: no, but at the same time I could see a deployer not wanting to use something with only one company backing it, and I could see us deciding not to propose trademark use for a project that lacks some level of diversity | 20:23 |
| anteaya | mikal: self-identification is the way to go | 20:24 |
| ttx | What do you all think of a cap on two-org share ? | 20:24 |
| agentle | I wondered if the sample size of the team matters, like if there are four team members, do we need to surface that? | 20:24 |
| ttx | like top two-org should represent less than 85% or so of the metrics considered ? | 20:24 |
| devananda | agentle: we used to require a min # of devs, yes | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | agentle: size of the core team would be another good metric for evaluating the long term health prospects for a project, so that could be another tag in this category | 20:24 |
| agentle | devananda: okay, then yeah I think I'm going the same line of thought as ttx | 20:24 |
| jgriffith | I'm wondering if people are reading this tag as something much more "important" than I am | 20:25 |
| ttx | we'll probably use the same for the future team:size tag | 20:25 |
| agentle | dhellmann: ok, that would work | 20:25 |
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| dhellmann | jgriffith: I anticipate applying these rules when deciding whether I want to vote yes for trademark use for a project. | 20:25 |
| agentle | jgriffith: it's interesting data, and uncovers makeup of teams, and will be useful comparision/trending over time | 20:25 |
| devananda | mordred: one more thing this exposes is a lack of pluggability in an app. most of the IaaS tools have pluggable drivers, which increases the diversity of contributions. | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: ahh.. ok, then that's going to change a bit of my opinions on these things I think | 20:26 |
| * devananda cant type well tonight | 20:26 | |
| * russellb here now | 20:26 | |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: as well as make the process MUCH more difficult I think | 20:26 |
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| dhellmann | jgriffith: difficult? | 20:26 |
| ttx | So... details to iron out, but since this tag definition has broad support, I plan to approve it if any patchset reaches 7 YES in the coming week, so that we don't block on another meeting. Does that sound fair ? | 20:26 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: by process I mean process of setting up tags | 20:26 |
| devananda | dhellmann: you vote whether or not to use apply the trademark t oa project? | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | devananda: the bylaws say the TC is supposed to propose a sets of projects to the board for trademark consideration, so yes | 20:27 |
| ttx | at some point we'll have to | 20:27 |
| ttx | currently it's "the integarted release" | 20:27 |
| * dhellmann is sitting on a tag proposal for that | 20:27 | |
| russellb | "TC approved release" | 20:27 |
| ttx | and tomorrow it will be "the TC approved release" | 20:27 |
| mordred | me proposes integarted tag | 20:27 |
| russellb | is the base that the rest of the trademark policy starts from | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | right, I'll submit that next week when I get back from vacation | 20:28 |
| devananda | ah. right. | 20:28 |
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| russellb | mordred: yep, coming full circle :-p | 20:28 |
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| mordred | russellb: :) | 20:28 |
| ttx | trademark usage was one of the late additions to the meaning of "the integrated release" | 20:28 |
| ttx | the last facet | 20:28 |
| ttx | some would say the last straw | 20:28 |
| * mordred would personally like to see the "proposed set of projects" stay static until someone else requests that we add something | 20:28 | |
| jgriffith | geesh... I was taking all of that literally | 20:28 |
| mordred | but that's another conversation | 20:28 |
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| ttx | yes, one step at a time :) | 20:28 |
| * mordred starts running | 20:28 | |
| ttx | I need to figure out if Defcore wants one "tc-approved releas" or one per trademark program first :) | 20:29 |
| russellb | mordred: right, will be easier to define and agree if we keep the scope contained | 20:29 |
| ttx | fun with bylaws wording. | 20:29 |
| * sdague finally here, train late | 20:29 | |
| mordred | sdague: you missed the fun bits | 20:29 |
| mordred | sdague: now we're just doing work | 20:29 |
| ttx | sdague: you missed the part where we just agreed | 20:29 |
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| sdague | \o/ for agreeing | 20:29 |
| ttx | OK, so to reiterate, back on topic... | 20:29 |
| jgriffith | sdague: don't believe them... it's a conspiracy | 20:30 |
| ttx | since this tag definition has broad support, I plan to approve it if any patchset reaches 7 YES in the coming week, so that we don't block on another meeting. Does that sound fair ? | 20:30 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 20:30 |
| devananda | ttx: ++ | 20:30 |
| mikal | works for me | 20:30 |
| jgriffith | ttx: as my vote in gerrit reflects +1 | 20:30 |
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| mordred | ++ | 20:30 |
| mordred | ttx: I voted +1 after having whined in channel | 20:30 |
| ttx | If you think having a tow-org cap rule doesn't make sense, please chime in on review so that Russel knows how to do the next patchset | 20:31 |
| agentle | got it. | 20:31 |
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| ttx | #topic Add proposal to rename core teams as maintainer teams | 20:31 |
| russellb | related data is on the review | 20:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add proposal to rename core teams as maintainer teams (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:31 | |
| russellb | to see what the new rule would impact | 20:31 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/163660 | 20:31 |
| ttx | This one is failing to pick up support afaict | 20:31 |
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| ttx | most opinionated people (like me) so far with a -1 | 20:32 |
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| agentle | in docs, we have been establishing "specialty teams" for reviews of particular guides. | 20:32 |
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| ttx | I understand we may have a problem to solve there, but I fear the remedy is worse than the disease | 20:32 |
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| russellb | yep, agree there's a problem | 20:33 |
| agentle | so it sounds similar to what jogo is proposing, but I think core is an okay word for both | 20:33 |
| russellb | just don't think the name is it :) | 20:33 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: russellb you'll have to enlighten me as to the problem | 20:33 |
| jgriffith | I'm not getting it | 20:33 |
| russellb | or at least changing it at this point isn't helpful enough | 20:33 |
| sdague | I be ok with it. I do think that often times the core teams assume their only responsibility is gerrit and not owning the code and fixing bugs in it. But I don't feel super strongly on it. | 20:33 |
| agentle | and I've avoided "subteam" in preference to specialty team | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | agentle: that sounds a bit like what we do in oslo, with separate teams for some of the libs | 20:33 |
| agentle | words do matter... but core is easy to type and already understood in the ecosystem... | 20:33 |
| agentle | dhellmann: yeah | 20:33 |
| ttx | jgriffith: I'd say the problem is that "core reviewers" teams call themselves "core teams" | 20:34 |
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| agentle | ttx: do you have more context on the root problem "maintainer" would help solve (or encourage better behavior?) | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | I think I'd be more in favor of a proposal that tried to define the actual responsibilities of core teams, before renaming them. | 20:34 |
| ttx | and that implies caste/class where it should not | 20:34 |
| russellb | and "core teams" are treated as the almighty | 20:34 |
| agentle | ttx: that helps | 20:34 |
| jgriffith | meh.... | 20:34 |
| mikal | Well, its not as bad as it used to be | 20:34 |
| ttx | and then siolly companies gives you bonuses when you become a member | 20:35 |
| mikal | There were no core parties in Paris IIRC | 20:35 |
| jgriffith | I think mountains can be made out of mole hills | 20:35 |
| russellb | right, make it a primary employment goal | 20:35 |
| mordred | mikal: yah there was | 20:35 |
| mordred | mikal: the architecture thing | 20:35 |
| ttx | which gives the wrong incentive to be one | 20:35 |
| mikal | mordred: huh, I must have skipped it then | 20:35 |
| russellb | fun party, don't get me wrong | 20:35 |
| ttx | jgriffith: I agree we have way larger fishes to fry | 20:35 |
| jgriffith | ttx: hmmm... companies do that; | 20:35 |
| * jgriffith works up is resume | 20:35 | |
| mordred | so ... | 20:35 |
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| mordred | I think this will be naturally changed by big tent | 20:35 |
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| sdague | changing the name won't fix the wrong incentive problem | 20:36 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:36 |
| russellb | yep, agree | 20:36 |
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| mikal | So, I don't think changing the name fixes misunderstandings from manager | 20:36 |
| mikal | s | 20:36 |
| mikal | Managers want to measure things so they can incent behaviour | 20:36 |
| russellb | don't think anyone thinks so :) | 20:36 |
| mikal | Any group membership is easy to measure | 20:36 |
| mikal | So will be picked | 20:36 |
| sdake__ | agree although companies do use it as a metric of success of their staff at multiple places :) | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | managers want people to become core because they think it means their code will land faster, right? | 20:36 |
| ttx | sdague: especially if we change it to "maintainers" | 20:36 |
| russellb | dhellmann: and it gets bragged about | 20:36 |
| mikal | dhellmann: I think its also because its an easy concept for them to understand | 20:36 |
| sdake__ | dhellmann its a measure of influence not speed | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | mikal, russellb : fair | 20:37 |
| russellb | in reality, their code probably does land faster ... | 20:37 |
| russellb | but i don't have data to show that | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | sdake__: I think that's a distinction without a difference in this case, but sure | 20:37 |
| fungi | fwiw, companies who want to throw parties for core reviewers on projects are looking at an ever growing list of attendees. they're either going to have to scale back to some other criteria or stop altogether at some point anyway | 20:37 |
| russellb | anyway, not sure we need to debate the problem | 20:37 |
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| sdake__ | companies want core because customers want to now people to be involved in openstack | 20:37 |
| sdague | russellb: agree, this seems more beer talk | 20:37 |
| sdake__ | now/know | 20:37 |
| russellb | mmm beer | 20:37 |
| ttx | anyway, this proposal in particular looks DOA -- but we may still want to pursue ways to address that issue | 20:38 |
| mikal | So, I think the point here is this is more complicated than a name | 20:38 |
| russellb | ttx: ++ | 20:38 |
| mikal | And needs further discussion, probably not on this review | 20:38 |
| jgriffith | Or maybe they just want their employees doing work they enjoy? | 20:38 |
| sdague | though I spent a lot of time training previous employer lawyers on what core reviewer meant for open source rules | 20:38 |
| jgriffith | or maybe the employers believe in OpenStack and making it better as much as a lot of the people workign on it? | 20:38 |
| ttx | solution might be to create more subteams | 20:38 |
| sdague | because they understood maintainer as a concept | 20:38 |
| jgriffith | You all are sooo jaded! | 20:38 |
| jgriffith | :) | 20:38 |
| sdague | and had a pattern around that | 20:38 |
| ttx | where core reviewers would just be one team amongst others | 20:38 |
| sdague | but this was all new and required lots of hand holding | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | sdague: interesting point | 20:39 |
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| agentle | I think it's about more specialty teams and more cores in the big tent. | 20:39 |
| sdake__ | ttx imo that would create more hurdles for staff to jump to participate in openstack ;) | 20:39 |
| ttx | I feel "maintainers" (like "committers) would just entrench the elite dev thinking | 20:39 |
| agentle | but I like to say big tent a lot | 20:39 |
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| russellb | i like the size of our tent, but we need to start decorating | 20:40 |
| jeblair | agentle: the big tent changes everything! | 20:40 |
| russellb | next topic? :) | 20:40 |
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| ttx | yep, next topic | 20:40 |
| ttx | #topic Adding the Murano Application Catalog to OpenStack | 20:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding the Murano Application Catalog to OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:40 | |
| * serg_mel_ is here for any Murano related questions | 20:40 | |
| ttx | OOoh. Level 2 | 20:40 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162745/ | 20:40 |
| ttx | Havne't voted yet, but feels like a pretty sane complement to "the platform" | 20:41 |
| ttx | I'm less involved with them than I was with Magnum community-wise so i'll let others talk | 20:41 |
| ttx | don't talk all at the same time | 20:42 |
| mordred | I'm +1 on this one too | 20:42 |
| mordred | similar reasons - although I don't know serg_mel_'s hair | 20:42 |
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| mordred | they operate as one of us, I know of people who like the thing they're doing, they've been working with other projects | 20:43 |
| ttx | It's been a long time Murano has been around and they always played by the openstack dev book | 20:43 |
| mordred | yup | 20:43 |
| sdague | yeh, this seems fine. I think my only concern is actually unrelated to murano directly, but about glance mission expanding for a new use case (when existing mission isn't being kept up with) | 20:43 |
| agentle | got a 404 for http://murano-docs.github.io/ - just me? | 20:43 |
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| serg_mel_ | agentle: murano.readthedocs.org | 20:44 |
| serg_mel_ | http://murano-docs.github.io/ - outdated - we can't clean-up google from this url :( | 20:44 |
| * agentle fixes your wiki page | 20:44 | |
| ttx | sdague: on that slightly off-topic tangent... I think on one hand Glance is indeed having trouble keeping up | 20:44 |
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| mikal | ttx: you have seven there | 20:44 |
| ttx | on the other it may attract new contributors to it | 20:44 |
| ttx | mikal: thanks for keeping track :) | 20:45 |
| sdague | ttx: but if the new contributors aren't addressing the existing backlog, that doesn't seem useful to me | 20:45 |
| serg_mel_ | agentle: thank you! | 20:45 |
| agentle | was also going to ask about the glance ties | 20:45 |
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| ttx | sdague: it's a tangent though, since Murano currently uses its own repo | 20:45 |
| sdague | ttx: agreed | 20:45 |
| ttx | 30 more seconds to register your happiness on that review | 20:45 |
| sdague | I'm +1 on murano. I do think we should revisit the glance mission scope at some point. | 20:46 |
| sdague | I also think that should we ever do a TC retreat, I have found the right place for it - http://www.pc.gc.ca/eng/pn-np/nb/fundy/activ/camping/yourtes-yurts.aspx | 20:46 |
| agentle | so does voting +1 on murano mean a descoping for glance's mission? | 20:46 |
| ttx | no | 20:46 |
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| mikal | Even if there was 100% overlap, we allow competition now right? | 20:47 |
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| ttx | sdague: artifact repo is a FFE for glance in klilo though. If we thinnk it's a bad idea we need to move now | 20:47 |
| sdague | mikal: it's not an overlap concern | 20:47 |
| jeblair | sdague: yurts _and_ bunkbeds! | 20:47 |
| ttx | approved | 20:47 |
| mikal | Top bunk! | 20:47 |
| sdague | jeblair: I stayed there 2 years ago, it was great | 20:47 |
| * serg_mel_ is dancing | 20:47 | |
| ttx | serg_mel_: welcome to the OpenStack community | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | mikal: within reason ("not gratuitous") | 20:48 |
| * anteaya stretches out on the women's side of the yurt | 20:48 | |
| serg_mel_ | ttx: Thank you! | 20:48 |
| mikal | ttx: well, they were already part of the community... | 20:48 |
| agentle | ttx: which "it" is meant for it's a bad idea? | 20:48 |
| jeblair | again, with the condolences | 20:48 |
| mordred | jeblair: :) | 20:48 |
| ttx | mikal: arguably not, for some definition of it | 20:48 |
| ttx | #topic Housekeeping | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Housekeeping (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:48 | |
| markmcclain | sdague: we'll need yurt 4 since that is only one that allows pets otherwise we'll have to leave the kittens, wet rabbits and fluffy milk cows at home | 20:48 |
| ttx | Our weekly repo additions, all approved by their PTLs, will approve after meeting unless someone -1s: | 20:48 |
| fungi | agentle: it == feature freeze exception for potential glance scope creep | 20:48 |
| mordred | serg_mel_: as with magnum - you should make us a renaming patch soon | 20:49 |
| ttx | * Adds puppet-bandersnatch to Infrastructure (https://review.openstack.org/163734) | 20:49 |
| ttx | * Add oslo.cache to reference/projects.yaml (https://review.openstack.org/164342) | 20:49 |
| ttx | * Add coreos-image-builder to Ironic (https://review.openstack.org/164370) | 20:49 |
| serg_mel_ | jeblair: We will propose change ASAP | 20:49 |
| * ttx checks last one | 20:49 | |
| ttx | * Add puppet-puppet project (https://review.openstack.org/165438) | 20:49 |
| ttx | yes it has Jim's +1 now | 20:49 |
| sdague | tripple puppet? | 20:49 |
| mordred | I approve all of these | 20:49 |
| agentle | just trying to make sure I understand | 20:49 |
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| ttx | I'll have to figure in which order to approve them to minimize risk of conflict | 20:49 |
| sdague | ttx: or just rebase for folks, I'm perma +1 on housekeeping changes | 20:50 |
| * mordred thinks puppet-puppet should win the prize for name | 20:50 | |
| ttx | agentle: Murano uses its own repo for artifacts, but said it would move to using Glance's if that feature appears there | 20:50 |
| agentle | ttx: ah ok that helps, thanks | 20:50 |
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| sdague | mordred: no, bork-bork would be a better name | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, we agreed you could just rebase things we'd already approved. Let me know if you want me to do that again like last time. | 20:50 |
| mordred | sdague: HAHAHAHAHAHA | 20:50 |
| mordred | sdague: I literally lold | 20:50 |
| ttx | agentle: Sean was voicing concerns that Glance adds Artifact repo to its scope, since they have a hard time keeping up with just being an image thing | 20:51 |
| ttx | agentle: so the concerns are separate, but it's fair to raise the Glance scope/act ivity issue | 20:51 |
| agentle | ttx: yeah | 20:51 |
| agentle | ttx: ok | 20:51 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:51 | |
| ttx | So.. Bod/TC meetign in Vancouver | 20:51 |
| ttx | Note that the members who will still be on the TC in May will have a Board/TC joint meeting on the Sunday before the event | 20:51 |
| ttx | So plan travel accordingly if you want to join | 20:52 |
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| mordred | well, and you're ALL invited, even if you're not on the TC again | 20:52 |
| ttx | Meeting would start at 2:30pm like last time (except if delayed again :) | 20:52 |
| mikal | So, 5pm start? | 20:52 |
| agentle | he | 20:52 |
| ttx | I've been asked to ask: | 20:52 |
| agentle | hee even | 20:52 |
| ttx | Would you be interested in common dinner after that, or just drinks ? | 20:52 |
| mordred | mikal: just bring a big bottle of vodka | 20:52 |
| sdague | I think we are owed martinis if it's delayed | 20:52 |
| mordred | ttx: at the most recent board meeting | 20:52 |
| ttx | I'm fine with both options | 20:52 |
| russellb | i guess i'm fine with both | 20:53 |
| mordred | we did a tapas style place that worked wellish for mingling | 20:53 |
| russellb | probably rather drinks | 20:53 |
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| russellb | mordred: ++ | 20:53 |
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| agentle | drinks in a yurt | 20:53 |
| mordred | I think the important thing is that we get to have converstaions with more than 2 people | 20:53 |
| ttx | mordred: right | 20:53 |
| mordred | agentle: ++ | 20:53 |
| agentle | yeah mingling would be good | 20:53 |
| sdague | yeh, I feel like the beer garden in atlanta was better than the paris dinner for talking | 20:53 |
| jeblair | ++food but casual | 20:53 |
| mikal | Is all of Canadia yurts? | 20:53 |
| mordred | but I do think _some_ food is important | 20:53 |
| sdague | so something more beer gardeny | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | sdague: ++ | 20:53 |
| mordred | because I will have been sitting in a board meeting all day | 20:53 |
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| mikal | Oh, Paris was too hot. I need somewhere with more airflow than that venue had. | 20:53 |
| ttx | mordred: so.. real food (so that we don't have to look for more after) but in a walk-around setting | 20:53 |
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| mordred | and if there's no food, my rage drinking will get me WAY to angry | 20:53 |
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| mikal | Or board members to flap their arms. | 20:54 |
| sdague | ttx: ++ | 20:54 |
| jgriffith | LOL | 20:54 |
| sdague | also mordred++ | 20:54 |
| jgriffith | rage drinking :) | 20:54 |
| mordred | ttx: doesn't have to be real - I'd be find with hummus and olives - just need _something_ | 20:54 |
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| anteaya | mikal: yes we all live in yurts | 20:54 |
| russellb | what if it's just hummus | 20:54 |
| ttx | HUMMUS IS REAL | 20:54 |
| sdague | because then he'll start yelling at me about nova bugs :) get the man some food | 20:54 |
| anteaya | mikal: and igloos | 20:54 |
| ttx | I'll convey that to Alan | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | are we planning a TC meeting of any sort at the summit? | 20:54 |
| mordred | russellb: hummus cocktails | 20:54 |
| mikal | anteaya: igloo == snow yurt | 20:54 |
| anteaya | mikal: you got it | 20:54 |
| ttx | dhellmann: we could technically to a cross-project "work session" with TC | 20:55 |
| mikal | dhellmann: I think a talky TC meeting is a good idea | 20:55 |
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| david-lyle | authentic canadian hummus | 20:55 |
| mikal | dhellmann: i.e. more than just the dinner | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | mikal: right, more than just dinner | 20:55 |
| ttx | since we have those now | 20:55 |
| markmcclain | ++ | 20:55 |
| anteaya | patios, vancouver will have patios | 20:55 |
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| ttx | Next question: do you think we should do another "lunch with board & TC" event ? | 20:55 |
| anteaya | beer gardens not so much | 20:55 |
| ttx | I felt like last time it was pretty useless, but meh | 20:55 |
| anteaya | you should rent a boat | 20:55 |
| mordred | ttx: I have foudn the last two of those useless | 20:55 |
| anteaya | many boats for rent in vancouver | 20:55 |
| russellb | ttx: i found it useless | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I agree, it didn't do anything for me | 20:55 |
| jeblair | ttx: agreed -- useless | 20:55 |
| russellb | i don't like being paraded around either | 20:55 |
| ttx | Stop all agreeing! | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | the breakfasts with the board were less so, because people who show up early for that are interested in talking | 20:56 |
| mordred | I think most of the people there do not care who we are, and that's fine | 20:56 |
| mordred | same with the board, fwiw | 20:56 |
| jgriffith | I skipped it, so that should speak volumes to my view on it | 20:56 |
| mikal | I don't think I've ever shown up to one | 20:56 |
| mikal | They make me uncomfortable | 20:56 |
| russellb | they had these signs on tables for which tc or board member was supposed to sit there | 20:56 |
| russellb | it was awkward | 20:56 |
| russellb | and useless | 20:56 |
| jeblair | well, i mean, my sign was under a table in the corner next to the garbage | 20:56 |
| ttx | I did crash my table, where Jane Silber was more well-known than I was | 20:56 |
| russellb | lol | 20:56 |
| fungi | from what i saw, about half of the board/tc people's tables got squatted by randoms and the signs tossed | 20:57 |
| sdague | guarded by a cougar? | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | In paris I ended up at a table with a bunch of people who, while very nice, had no idea who I was or why I was talking to them until I picked up the sign with my name that they had removed from their lunch table. | 20:57 |
| russellb | fungi: yep, mine did | 20:57 |
| jeblair | sdague: "beware of the leopard" | 20:57 |
| anteaya | sdague: them we have | 20:57 |
| agentle | did anyone have good questions that wouldn't have otherwise been asked? | 20:57 |
| anteaya | no leopards | 20:57 |
| sdague | jeblair: that's it :) | 20:57 |
| ttx | Ok, I'll reply "no thanks" | 20:57 |
| agentle | (I didn't but got to ask questions) | 20:57 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 20:57 |
| fungi | agentle: you mean besides "who are you anyway?" | 20:57 |
| ttx | in the remaining 3 minutes ? | 20:57 |
| markmcclain | I was close to the entrance and had a line of folks in paris… all proposing new extensions | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | agentle: not really | 20:58 |
| russellb | markmcclain: neworking people. | 20:58 |
| mordred | markmcclain: hahahaha | 20:58 |
| russellb | gah! | 20:58 |
| anteaya | markmcclain: just you then | 20:58 |
| mordred | markmcclain: tell them all to just get DHCP right | 20:58 |
| anteaya | lunch with just markmcclain | 20:58 |
| ttx | markmcclain: no, that's because you look so good | 20:58 |
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| mordred | ttx: his hair isn't quite as good at adrian_otto's | 20:58 |
| markmcclain | haha | 20:58 |
| jeblair | yeah, we should just do "lunch with markmcclain" | 20:58 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:58 |
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| agentle | I think there's usefulness in being accessible at certain times | 20:59 |
| agentle | I think lunching is an awkward time. | 20:59 |
| ttx | some office hours ? | 20:59 |
| agentle | coffee, tea, and the tc | 20:59 |
| russellb | meh. :) | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | agentle: ooo, sign me up for tea :-) | 20:59 |
| Rockyg | drinking games and the tc | 20:59 |
| agentle | I dunno, something about making us accessible without making us awkward. | 20:59 |
| russellb | people i really want to talk to are probably smart enough to figure out how to reach out | 20:59 |
| ttx | tea break with the tea C | 20:59 |
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| agentle | oh gawd. :) | 21:00 |
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| mordred | it's vancouver - we could do "get high with the TC" | 21:00 |
| ttx | yes, on that last pun... | 21:00 |
| agentle | lol | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 21:00:30 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-24-20.02.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-24-20.02.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-24-20.02.log.html | 21:00 |
| jeblair | oh thank goodness that's over | 21:00 |
| mordred | jeblair: :) | 21:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:00 |
| mordred | woohoo! | 21:00 |
| russellb | mordred: lol | 21:00 |
| mikal | Laters! | 21:00 |
| ttx | jeblair: all that agreement was starting to grow on me | 21:00 |
| * mikal takes the kids to school | 21:00 | |
| * russellb proceeds to pick up his rental car | 21:01 | |
| russellb | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | As a reminder, no cross-project meeting today | 21:01 |
| jeblair | ttx: you should have a doctor look at that | 21:01 |
| ttx | since of course we have no cross-project issue | 21:01 |
| anteaya | ttx happy sleep | 21:01 |
| ttx | nex time if you see one, please fill: | 21:01 |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:01 |
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| ttx | and see you all next week! | 21:02 |
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| tchaypo | well | 21:03 |
| tchaypo | that was a good meeting | 21:03 |
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| tchaypo | *goes back to sleep* | 21:03 |
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