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| eliqiao1 | 0/ | 11:59 |
| alex_xu | 1 min | 11:59 |
| eliqiao1 | -_- | 11:59 |
| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jun 12 12:00:04 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | hello everyone! | 12:00 |
| gilliard | Hello ! | 12:00 |
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| eliqiao1 | hi alex_xu | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | eliqiao1: hi | 12:00 |
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| alex_xu | waiting one more minutes if more people join | 12:01 |
| sdague | hey | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | sdague: hey | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | #topic status liberty works | 12:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status liberty works (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:02 | |
| alex_xu | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-api-working-list | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | let us go through work items listed in liberty-1 | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/188410 | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | microversion novaclient support | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | sdague: already give good comment, and I agree with him | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | which missing some detail about how to implement in nova code. but hope people continue to review it | 12:04 |
| * alex_xu need more review on it also | 12:04 | |
| alex_xu | any question to this item? | 12:05 |
| sdague | so I think that there is some confusion in responses there | 12:05 |
| sdague | "I disagree with this statement. The latest microversions supported by bit client and API can be different for different commands(servers.create, keypairs.create). Cache can help only for number of similar calls, so do we need it at all?" | 12:05 |
| sdague | I think that's a fundamental misunderstanding of how microversions work | 12:05 |
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| sdague | being a global version, not a per call concept (though it could be changed per call) | 12:06 |
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| sdague | I'm wondering if there is some communication / clarification that could be made to make that better | 12:06 |
| sdague | so people are less confused by that | 12:06 |
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| alex_xu | although we have some doc about api microversion, but still have some confuse | 12:07 |
| * gilliard needs to read all those comments... | 12:07 | |
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| alex_xu | sdague: do we want to implement version lazy checking, as we return min/max version when requested version didn't supported | 12:08 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: lazy in which sense? | 12:09 |
| sdague | can you give me a scenario? | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | sdague: the client shouldn't query version by version api first. The client can send actualy api request, then check the response, if 406 return means version didn't supported, then we client choice another version based on response | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | sdague: maybe I shouldn't call it as lazy | 12:11 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, for the 'cli' use case, I think that's fine | 12:11 |
| sdague | for the 'api' use case, I think we should be explicit | 12:12 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: agree, maybe a parameter to control whether check the version when construct client obj | 12:12 |
| sdague | in the cli use case we should cache that version that we're going to start using so we aren't doing double duty all the time | 12:12 |
| sdague | alex_xu: well, honestly, just put the retry logic in the cli layer | 12:12 |
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| sdague | the api call fails, the cli then constructs a new restclient with the new version | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | I keep wondering if we should make python-novaclient just focus on the CLI use case, if we can get the openstack SDK helping folks sooner, but thats probably a different conversation | 12:13 |
| sdague | keeps the implementation cleaner | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | we need it working before we do that I guess | 12:13 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: so... that would be nice, but I think we need to do this now. We have potential consumers already with the ec2 api and heat in our own community that need this stuff | 12:14 |
| alex_xu | sdague: so in api it always check after actualy api call? | 12:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: very true | 12:14 |
| sdague | alex_xu: well if RestClient is constructed with a microversion, and it fails, then it fails. | 12:16 |
| sdague | and the cli piece of code does the recovery | 12:16 |
| sdague | which realistically would be how you'd expect other users would use it | 12:16 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok, got it | 12:16 |
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| alex_xu | anymore question,then let's move on? | 12:17 |
| sdague | alex_xu: so how do we get that explained correctly in the spec? | 12:17 |
| sdague | who has the todo to get that back into there? | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | sdague: would you want to? I think you can explain that better | 12:18 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: you mean just comment on the discussion on it? | 12:19 |
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| sdague | ok, I can provide more comments there | 12:19 |
| alex_xu | sdague: thanks | 12:19 |
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| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189218/ | 12:20 |
| sdague | #action sdague to provide more detailed approach on novaclient microversions in the spec | 12:20 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: ok, I'm just about to push my add there | 12:20 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: thanks | 12:20 |
| alex_xu | which spec already merged, but as sdague point it out, it isn't expected as we discussed yesterday | 12:21 |
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| alex_xu | so waiting for sdague spec | 12:21 |
| sdague | #link https://review.openstack.org/191033 | 12:21 |
| sdague | hot off the presses | 12:21 |
| alex_xu | and thanks to edleafe to be volunteer work on it, I will help on also | 12:21 |
| sdague | so, basically, it's pretty close to what you had | 12:21 |
| sdague | except one more bit about trying to make the new code directory structure look like the rest uri structure | 12:22 |
| sdague | as much as possible | 12:22 |
| sdague | to make it easier to keep the model in your head of how the api ends up looking | 12:22 |
| sdague | I also just thought we should call the v2/ directory legacy-v2/ to make sure people realize it's not what they want | 12:22 |
| alex_xu | quick throught you want to structure it as resource | 12:23 |
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| alex_xu | +1 legacy-v2 | 12:23 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: yes, basically. For instance, which pieces of the code expose top level resources, and which pieces expose resources / info on other resources should be clear from the tree itself | 12:23 |
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| sdague | anyway, it's an idea, people should see if they like it | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | sdague: yea, sound like good idea | 12:24 |
| * alex_xu will review it after the meeting | 12:25 | |
| alex_xu | next one is microversion guideline in api-wg | 12:25 |
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| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/187112 | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/187896 | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | And one more thing come up is Neutron is going to implement Microversion also | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136760 | 12:26 |
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| alex_xu | From spec, there is a little different with nova and ironic implementation. And I commented on. Unfortunately it already merged… But I talked with Neutron core Salvatore, he will check my comment. | 12:26 |
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| alex_xu | And two things I have question from neutron's spec review | 12:27 |
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| alex_xu | One is experimental flag, we mention that flag in the nova spec, but we didn't implement it. Or say we didn't have | 12:27 |
| gilliard | Good one. | 12:27 |
| alex_xu | Chance to use that flag yet. Do we still want to support it? | 12:27 |
| gilliard | I don't think we'll know about that until more operators are using kilo, tbh | 12:27 |
| gilliard | Because it's a mechanism for them, isn't it? | 12:28 |
| alex_xu | gilliard: I feel experimental flag also means an process of introduce new api | 12:28 |
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| sdague | yeh, the experimental flag was more transition for out of tree extensions | 12:29 |
| sdague | we don't want to support it | 12:29 |
| gilliard | I'd be happy to get rid of it right now, but then I don't run a cloud with proprietary extensions... | 12:29 |
| gilliard | I think we need to keep it in the spec, and probably provide more detail about what it's for. | 12:30 |
| alex_xu | as neutron have such requirement, we can introduce that flag api-wg, but we didn't support that looks like ok, it won't break anything, right? | 12:30 |
| sdague | yeh, I suppose, we should recommend against it though | 12:31 |
| alex_xu | ok, I will put that flag back to api-wg guideline | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | Another question is vendor specific api. Neutron propose vendor specific api can support microversion which is decided by implementor. So do we have plan to support vendor specific api? And need think whether propose the vendor's microversion header to api-wg guideline | 12:32 |
| sdague | we specifically do not | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: we should clear up messaging on that, but I think we left it as a way to report you have a non-standard API, and it being bad | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, we are killing and vendor API on purpose | 12:33 |
| sdague | we don't want vendor specific stuff | 12:33 |
| sdague | right, exactly | 12:33 |
| sdague | and I think the api-wg should recommend against allowing vendor specific apis in | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | neutron is currently doing the exact opposite around that in general, hence the split up of all their plugins into different git repos | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | but thats a different discussion | 12:34 |
| sdague | well, there are different slices in neutron still | 12:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 for adding a proposal to the API-WG | 12:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, that comment was a bit unfair | 12:34 |
| sdague | I have to cut a little early to deal with some errands this morning, will read scrollback later | 12:34 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok | 12:35 |
| alex_xu | next one is polcy cleanup | 12:35 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/nova-api-policy-final-part,n,z | 12:35 |
| alex_xu | it closed to finished, just need more review | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | some of patch need update also | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | hope we can merge them all in l1 | 12:36 |
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| alex_xu | I think there isn't too much question as this is old stuff | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | let us move on | 12:37 |
| alex_xu | relax jsonschema | 12:37 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/173243/ | 12:37 |
| alex_xu | as the discussion in irc today, one change to the spec is we should ignore any extra headers include version request header | 12:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: is that stuff listed on the priority etherpad? | 12:38 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yes, in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-api-working-list liberty 1 works | 12:38 |
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| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: no one is going to read that outside this group though... we have the central list we have asked groups to use here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking | 12:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | just like last release, basically | 12:39 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: oops, you mean put that in review list? | 12:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, sorry, I was totally unclear! | 12:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | but I am asking cores and non-cores to pay close attention to what is in that central etherpad | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | that will be easier when there is lots of stuff in there | 12:40 |
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| johnthetubaguy | saves people having to know one million etherpad locations | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | hopefully it helps, if not, we can try something else | 12:40 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: I think it is useful | 12:41 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: we should put that one to the review list when spec updated as the discussion | 12:41 |
| eliqiao1 | +1 , central is good idea. | 12:41 |
| eliqiao1 | s/central/central etherpad/ | 12:41 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-api-working-list just for nova api team list what we need work on. status each item status. | 12:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: my big worry for all priorities right now is that we don't have all the specs we need up for review yet | 12:43 |
| eliqiao1 | how about put that central etherpad link into spec or nova code or some easy reach where | 12:43 |
| alex_xu | track each item status | 12:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | given the deadline for blueprint freeze in a week or two | 12:43 |
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| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: you can do that in the main etherpad too, and others can see that effort | 12:43 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: should be in this one https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-liberty-summit-action-items? | 12:44 |
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| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: yeah, true | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: ok, let me move the stuff | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | #topic opens | 12:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:45 | |
| alex_xu | anything want to discuss? | 12:45 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ndipanov was asking about this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188913/ | 12:46 |
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| ndipanov | thanks johnthetubaguy | 12:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | about needing an API bump, and therefore a spec | 12:46 |
| ndipanov | I will admit I did not read the whole thread on the ML | 12:46 |
| ndipanov | but if the point of api versions is to have meaning to the end user, then this is silly to version | 12:47 |
| alex_xu | yea, as the policy of bump version, anything need client to ware about should bump te version | 12:47 |
| alex_xu | ndipanov: but provide more strict validation means beak some user, even some user use the api with wrong way | 12:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: but this doesn't create a new error code for the client to understand? | 12:47 |
| alex_xu | ndipanov: that is why we want to relax valdiation for v2.1 under /v2 | 12:48 |
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| ndipanov | alex_xu, I have to say I don't see the value in not breaking clients who are using this for the sake of purity | 12:48 |
| ndipanov | it's a bugfix | 12:48 |
| ndipanov | of a broken thing that would get ignored | 12:48 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: emm... it's more about strict the validation I think | 12:49 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ndipanov: so most bug fixes might need a spec and API bump, so the client knows when it can expect new types of errors and what those mean | 12:49 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ndipanov: its a choice we have taken, and its quite overzealous | 12:49 |
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| ndipanov | johnthetubaguy, that's just... | 12:49 |
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| ndipanov | no words | 12:49 |
| ndipanov | good luck | 12:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | now, the issue we have, is we don't have enough examples to document this yet, which is why every change without a bump is getting a lot of debate | 12:50 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its simply not decided | 12:50 |
| alex_xu | ndipanov: yea, I understand...I put that comment because as we say we should be careful any api change, and we just have microversion now, and we didn't have full policy how to bump the version yet. | 12:50 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ndipanov: if you added a new return code, like 409 where there was never a 409, we agreed that needs a bump | 12:50 |
| ndipanov | sure that makes sense | 12:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, now this one, I am on the fence about | 12:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | basically I am on the fence as I keep screwing up these choices, and people point massive holes in my logic | 12:51 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I don't see any reason why it has to be bump here | 12:51 |
| ndipanov | I mean | 12:52 |
| ndipanov | if versions are supposed to have meaning for the user | 12:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | I just don't feel I can say its OK with out a bump, I want a second opinion, but I want to have a good reason explain to me | 12:52 |
| ndipanov | then this should not be a version bump | 12:52 |
| ndipanov | before it would just not work | 12:52 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: +1 | 12:52 |
| ndipanov | and now it does | 12:52 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ndipanov: right, thats my thinking too | 12:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: why do you think this needs a bump, I guess thats my question? | 12:53 |
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| ndipanov | changing a return code or adding a field - no question | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: emmm I just think about the client behavior | 12:53 |
| ndipanov | but obvious brokenness | 12:53 |
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| alex_xu | let's move the dicussion back to openstack-nova | 12:54 |
| alex_xu | it time to close the meeting | 12:54 |
| ndipanov | ik | 12:54 |
| ndipanov | ok | 12:54 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 12:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jun 12 12:54:24 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-06-12-12.00.html | 12:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-06-12-12.00.txt | 12:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-06-12-12.00.log.html | 12:54 |
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