Friday, 2015-06-19

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alex_xu#startmeeting nova api12:00
openstackMeeting started Fri Jun 19 12:00:20 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.12:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_api'12:00
alex_xuHello, who is here today?12:00
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alex_xuonly me is api team...12:01
* bauwser will be basically lurking :-)12:01
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claudiubwe trust your judgement. :)12:02
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johnthetubaguywell I am just lurking really12:02
bauwseralex_xu: ready for a monologue ?12:02
alex_xubauwser: you want to listen?12:03
alex_xuor cancel this week?12:03
bauwseralex_xu: I do, I could even voice, but don't bet on it :)12:03
johnthetubaguyso quick thing12:03
johnthetubaguyseems like there is agreement on that now, which is great12:03
alex_xu+1 quick talk something12:03
alex_xuyea, I already +1, I think it pretty close12:03
johnthetubaguyI am curious how many other specs are pedning12:03
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alex_xuI will happy to help on the implementation12:04
johnthetubaguypending for priority stuff I mean, rather than just APIImpact stuff12:04
sdaguealex_xu: can you take the lead on that implementation?12:04
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: awesome thank you, not sure how much code typing time will get left for me12:04
alex_xusdague: sure12:04
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea, I see :)12:04
sdaguealex_xu: great, thank you12:04
alex_xusdague: np12:05
johnthetubaguysdague: alex_xu: +1 don't let my name being on there block you doing all the work, if thats the best way forward!12:05
bauwsersome details have been removed from the spec, which I'm fine - but I'd love to review that12:05
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sdaguealex_xu: I'll actively review those patches, please ping me as soon as you have anything up12:05
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sdagueI'd like to get that in sooner rather than later12:05
alex_xusdague: got it12:05
bauwsersdague: the spec deserves a +2 :)12:05
johnthetubaguy+1 in terms of reviewing that spec12:05
johnthetubaguy(and trying to get it deployed...!)12:05
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sdaguebauwser: I don't have +2 on specs :)12:06
bauwseroh my bad then, was thinking you were nova-drivers12:06
sdagueas soon as I get done writing up some new devstack plugin docs, I'll be reviewing specs this morning12:06
alex_xuso api team member can +1 for it, then put it on
bauwseralex_xu: well, I think it's reasonable to put it already12:07
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alex_xubauwser: sounds good for me12:08
bauwsergilliard and you already +1'd it12:08
johnthetubaguy(so I regret not pushing on the nova-core all get +2 thing, its been too slow without it, will probably change that soon-ish after the freeze for the backlog stuff, but lets not get distracted by that...)12:08
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johnthetubaguyalex_xu: so we can put it on that list before too12:08
bauwseroomichi as well, btw.12:08
bauwserjohnthetubaguy: did that12:08
bauwserjust now12:08
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: yeah, lets get a list of all the specs this teams would like to be merged, regardless of their current state12:09
alex_xubauwser: yea, oomichi give -1 for previous version, better to have him +112:09
johnthetubaguythat was I can get them some higher priority12:09
johnthetubaguythat way^12:09
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: ok12:09
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alex_xu#link 12:09
johnthetubaguyoomichi spotted a big omision, around omitting headers for v2 rather than v2.1 so I was really glad of that -112:10
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea12:10
alex_xumore question for relax validation? then we move on12:10
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johnthetubaguyI am good for relax stuff12:10
sdagueI think we can move on12:11
johnthetubaguythanks for all the great feedback on that12:11
alex_xu#link 12:11
alex_xuthe microversion client spec12:11
alex_xuI have no more words...except review, thanks to sdague already give a lot feedback12:11
alex_xuoops, one question from me12:12
johnthetubaguyI need to give this some quality time, I like how its based on the ironic spec12:12
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sdaguewell, honestly, I find the ironic spec boiler plate mostly distracting12:13
alex_xuwhether we need depend api-guidelien it add something like return max/min when request invalid version?12:13
sdaguebecause we mostly have all that12:13
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alex_xusdague: our spec is a little different with ironic one, I compare few use-case, some words are we need notice that12:14
sdaguebut I think my major issues were all addressed with L266 - L27612:14
johnthetubaguysdague: true, its got too big right now, the problem description could be trimmed, for example12:14
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bauwser+1 was about to mention that12:14
sdaguealex_xu: so, the problem is, no one is ever going to really notice that. I feel like that should be done as an appendix section, that also describes what the differences from ironic are at this point12:15
bauwserdoes it need to be reviewed now, that said ?12:15
sdaguebecause building a mental diff here is weird12:15
bauwserI mean, during the meeting ?12:15
johnthetubaguysdague: +112:15
sdagueand it wasn't the major concern of the spec12:15
alex_xusdague: yea, it hard diff by my eye12:15
sdaguebauwser: well, now is a time for questions12:16
johnthetubaguyI am torn, I like it being stand alone in nova, but the differences are important, I think the later is probably more important12:16
bauwsersdague: fair, was an open question, sorry if you sounded it harsh12:16
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sdagueok, honestly, now that we sorted out the cli default behavior, I think this is in fine shape to move forward. Details can be tweaked in the code reviews if something looks weird, but the crux of API requires explicit microversion, and CLI uses latest is good12:17
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johnthetubaguy+1 for that distinction12:18
alex_xusdague: +112:18
johnthetubaguyI guess the API user can explicitly request "latest" right?12:18
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sdaguejohnthetubaguy: yeh, it's allowed, I'm still iffy on whether that's a good idea or not12:19
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yes12:19
sdaguebut it's pretty minor really12:19
johnthetubaguyso that all seems like a good starting point to me12:20
alex_xuemm...ask my question again, whether we need depend api-guidelien it add something like return max/min when request invalid version?12:21
alex_xuI'm thing the client implement may depend on this.12:21
alex_xuif the client implement on this, we need some server side coding also12:22
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sdaguealex_xu: honestly, I think we should just push forward for now, the api-wg general guidelines are emerging, and until we try some things we won't have the data to know if that's working or not12:22
sdaguethe point of microversions was we could fix any mistakes later with new microversions12:22
sdagueso not spend forever being unsure12:23
claudiubwell, there are a couple concerns with exposing the api versions... some servers prefer to hide the server version12:23
claudiubmaybe have it as a config option?12:23
sdagueclaudiub: nope12:23
johnthetubaguywe are explicitly not allowing that sort of thing12:23
sdaguethis is part of the API contract12:23
sdagueif you don't expose it, you aren't Nova12:23
johnthetubaguysdague: +112:24
andreykurilinwhile we are here: Should we switch to use OpenStack-API-Version header instead of X-OpenStack-Nova-API-Version ?
johnthetubaguyclaudiub: I know there are people who worry from a security point of view, but we need it for other reasons12:24
sdagueandreykurilin: honestly, I think that discussion is still very much in flux, I think no action is needed at this point yet12:24
claudiubk, cool.12:24
sdagueto be clear, we're not exposing the git hash of your server, we're exposing the API versions12:25
alex_xusdague: so now the cli implement only depend on what we have?12:25
andreykurilinsdague: got it12:25
sdaguealex_xu: yeh, I think for now, it's fine12:25
johnthetubaguyso we have APIs that need a client, so we have to make it work with what we have12:25
alex_xuok, got it12:25
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sdagueandreykurilin: I feel like something like should go through api-wg ratification first, then we fix it in M12:25
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alex_xusdague: emm...the microverions itself not under the protect of microversions12:26
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alex_xuso we need keep any change to microversion is back-compatible12:27
alex_xuthat is one thing we should care about I think12:27
sdagueright, so changing a header like that means we're going to have to have a deprecation and overlap phase12:27
sdaguewhich is another reason I don't want to rush it12:27
sdaguebecause it's an invasive enough change, for really unclear gains. Like CamelCase changes.12:28
alex_xusdague: ok, deprecation is a way12:28
johnthetubaguywe would need a transition and discoverability discussion, etc, and thats cool, but its not for now12:28
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alex_xuok, I see now12:29
alex_xuany more question for microversions?12:29
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alex_xuok, let move on12:29
alex_xuthanks edleafe and his team, they already begin to work on12:29
alex_xuI think this is good progress12:30
alex_xuI guess no more question for this?12:30
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sdaguealex_xu: on the rm v3 bits, is there a patch stream?12:31
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alex_xusdague: not yet, edleafe's team working on the plan, edleafe lead some opentack new man12:31
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sdagueok, cool12:31
sdaguealex_xu: I look forward to that a lot12:32
alex_xupolicy stuff is also good. we merged some patches in this two weeks.12:32
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sdagueI'll go through the policy patches as soon as the meeting is over12:32
alex_xusdague: thanks12:32
alex_xusdague start local bump guideline, it is pretty cool12:33
sdagueyeh, I need to make another revision of that, I now understand what jaypipes was getting at, which I missed in the first review12:34
alex_xuand there are come out a lot of patch want to validate it~12:34
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alex_xusdague: cool, without I'm begin to afarid review api patch :)12:34
sdagueright, I was trying to reference decisions we've made previously12:35
alex_xusdague: the two step fix for 500, sounds interesting idea, except it is a little strange for fix 500 to wrong code in backport12:35
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johnthetubaguydo we have a similar doc for the policy defaults in code, renaming to match the URL rather than the code, and that kind of thing?12:36
alex_xusdague: I'm think if there are some fix needn't new microversion, then this fix must be back-portable12:36
johnthetubaguyoh backports, did we wonder about leaving a few version numbers empty for backports?12:36
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: that's not really going to work12:37
bauwserso, why not x.y.z like objects ?12:37
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johnthetubaguysdague: so true, we end up changing new version we released already12:37
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: right, exactly12:37
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alex_xuwe need new plan for policy~12:37
johnthetubaguysdague: I remember going that before now12:37
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sdaguealex_xu: yeh, so, honestly, the policy question is a really good one, and is kind of wrapped up with where keystone wants to take policy, which hasn't all been sorted yet12:38
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: if there is change bump rpc version, then we can't back-port it also? I think this is similar to microversion12:38
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sdagueso, honestly, I just think a class of bugs that expose to the API are just "to get the fix, upgrade"12:39
alex_xusdague: johnthetubaguy does this one still is we want
bauwseralex_xu: that's forbidden
alex_xubauwser: thanks12:40
bauwserthat said, some tooling is done for the objects, like I said12:41
sdaguealex_xu: on the policy front, I feel like we don't want any smaller changes to policy until we have the big picture on the dynamic policy end game12:41
bauwseryou can provide a .z version12:41
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alex_xusdague: ok, so stop continue push that12:41
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sdaguebauwser: the .z thing doesn't really work right here, because now someone writes their code to 2.4.512:42
alex_xubauwser: I remember we have .z version propose before, but finally we remove that12:42
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sdagueand their cloud updates to master12:42
sdagueand 2.4.5 goes away12:42
johnthetubaguyso my take is we should work out what we would like in an ideal world, and get that written down, then start thinking about how we get there (implementation)12:42
bauwsersdague: I need more time for thinking about that, but I got your point12:42
johnthetubaguymy last comment was about policy, specifically12:43
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bauwseranyway, it was not possible *before* the microversions, so that's not that harsh12:43
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: yeh, on policy, I agree.12:43
sdaguebauwser: right, it's not really a change12:43
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sdagueit's just a bit more enforced in code now12:43
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: got it12:43
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bauwserI guess that's something to be discussed at the API WG level12:43
bauwser(talking about the stable backports)12:43
johnthetubaguybauwser: its a non starter for micro version bumps, but it should be discussed there12:45
sdaguehonestly, making it easier to roll forward and just pick up changes should be the goal. If we get that to be seamless, it's a much better answer.12:45
johnthetubaguysdague: you mean get more folks deploying off master?12:45
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: yes12:45
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johnthetubaguysdague: I so wish a distros would start pushing that way, and see how it works in that form12:46
* alex_xu lose context, need re-read that part after meeting12:46
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: fortunately the new ansible openstack effort is all about that12:46
sdagueso that will help move the needle I hope12:46
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johnthetubaguysdague: interesting, hadn't spotted that one12:47
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sdagueyeh, it's deploy from git, not from packages like the puppet effort12:47
johnthetubaguysdague: I should get our ansible folks that are doing just that already to try and join in with that12:47
johnthetubaguyso we don't do from git, but anyways, interesting stuff12:48
sdagueok, any other topics?12:48
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johnthetubaguy+1 back to API, anything else burning12:48
alex_xuquick update from me12:49
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alex_xutalk with ironic guys, they don't expermiental also12:49
alex_xuback to neutron guys, they are going to give it also~12:49
alex_xuso~ yea, avoid another long argument12:50
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sdaguerelated, johnthetubaguy do we have whatever official spec / devref in that says extensions go away?12:50
sdagueis that on your plate/12:50
johnthetubaguysdague: we don't, it is on my radar though (in the summit follow up list, I think)12:51
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: ^12:51
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johnthetubaguyah, cools12:51
alex_xuand got jay's +212:51
sdagueok, great, will look12:51
sdaguethanks alex_xu12:51
alex_xuand one message from me12:51
alex_xuI will take leave few days next week. because my baby will born.12:52
claudiubcongrats. :)12:52
sdaguealex_xu: congrats!12:52
alex_xuand my work may have a little slow down, sorry for that12:52
alex_xuthanks all :)12:52
sdagueheh, yep, I know that :) It's a great adventure.12:52
* alex_xu actually already slow down after summit, because spend some time between hospital and home and office12:53
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: awesome, good luck!12:53
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: thanks12:53
alex_xuand no more from me, any more question?12:53
sdaguenot from me, thanks everyone12:54
* johnthetubaguy wonders if openstack should have run a new parent support group!12:54
johnthetubaguylooks good from me12:54
alex_xujacorob: hah12:54
sdaguethere have been a lot of #stackbabbies12:54
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* alex_xu have no idea what happened after have baby12:54
gilliardYou're about to find out!12:55
alex_xulet us end the meeting :)12:55
alex_xugilliard: yea12:55
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openstackMeeting ended Fri Jun 19 12:55:20 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)12:55
openstackMinutes (text):
alex_xuthanks all12:55
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schwicke#startmeeting hierarchical_multitenancy16:01
openstackMeeting started Fri Jun 19 16:01:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is schwicke. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)"16:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'hierarchical_multitenancy'16:01
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schwickeHi all!16:01
raildohi schwicke :)16:01
schwickenice to see you back116:01
ericksonsantosHi :)16:01
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schwickeSorry I had to drop out for a while for various personal and professional reasons16:01
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raildoschwicke, nice to see you back too :)16:02
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vilobhmmhello all16:02
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schwickehi, Belmiro! Good to have you here as well16:02
sajeeshhi raildo16:02
sajeeshhi belmiro16:02
schwickeHi, Raildo, Vilob!16:02
sajeeshhi vilob16:02
vilobhmmhello schwicke! hi sajeesh ! :)16:02
vilobhmmso if we have everyone should we start16:03
raildohey sajeesh16:03
schwickeI had circulated a set of topics to be discussed. I didn't get much feedback so lets just start16:03
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schwicke#topic  Default quota patch - root level project gets default values set in cinder.conf16:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Default quota patch - root level project gets default values set in cinder.conf (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)"16:03
vilobhmmschwicke : I am working on these changes16:03
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schwickethe question here was if we can do the same for nova16:03
vilobhmmwill get the patch out EOD16:04
schwickethis is for cinder, isn't it ?16:04
sajeeshschwicke it is done and I have uploaded the patch16:04
schwickevery good. So that can be ticket off.16:04
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sajeeshI mean in nova , it is done16:04
schwickesajeesh: very good!16:04
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ericksonsantosDid you solve your problem vilobhmm ?16:05
sajeeshthanks...please review it16:05
vilobhmmpatch is nova under review16:05
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vilobhmmericsonsantos : I think just adding a classification of whether a project is a sub-project or not is not sufficient IMHO
vilobhmmsajeesh's default quota patch :
vilobhmmsajessh's nested quota driver patch :
vilobhmmso i have a question to raildo, eric, sajeesh16:07
vilobhmmso how do you guys go about testing the changes16:07
sajeeshthat has to be abandoned...I think so16:07
ericksonsantosI think that is the wrong approach16:07
ericksonsantosas I have commented on the patch16:08
vilobhmmare you talking about  erissonsantos16:08
ericksonsantosvilobhmm, yes16:08
vilobhmmyes sajeesh I think won;t fly16:09
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sajeeshyes of course16:09
vilobhmmwhat we need to do is keep the default values same and see if we have a sub-project and then reset the values to zero as mentioned in the spec IMHO16:09
raildovilobhmm, you mean test the quota code? The last time that I had tested was running tox, since there is some bugs in the all patches, and I can't put this in a devstack or something like that.16:09
vilobhmmplease correct me if wrong16:09
sajeeshVilobh, I have done like that in my new patch ,
ericksonsantosvilobhmm, yes, I do think so16:10
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vilobhmmraildo : thanks :) will come back to it in a while …. right now just focussing on 16:10
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vilobhmmsajeesh even with IMHO you need more16:11
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sajeesherickson , please check In that I have implemented the above said use case16:11
raildovilobhmm, hum... I don't like this idea, since the current default values correspond to a single project, if we get this default values and divide to a hierarchy, you will have few resources for each subprojects16:11
vilobhmmas in the quota_create query you will need to update the allocated field which will be part of nova.quotas16:11
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sajeeshraildo, default values can be made higher16:12
vilobhmmsajeesh : will check it out! Thanks for all the efforts !16:12
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sajeeshvilobh, it is not  just have been done16:12
ericksonsantosraildo, I think that approach is more safe16:13
ericksonsantosfor now16:13
raildosajeesh, the questions is, how much higher? I don't know how... I prefer just set to zero and the ops will decide this.16:13
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vilobhmmericsansantos : +116:13
vilobhmmraildo : you mean 0 even for the ROOT project ?16:13
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vilobhmmand then the respective admin does a nova quota-update to update the quota for the resp project ?16:14
vilobhmmbut this idea didn't go well when sajeesh tried to convince the same to nova folks….sajeesh is that true ?16:14
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ericksonsantossajeesh, i'll take a look at it16:14
raildovilobhmm, yeap16:14
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sajeeshraildo, when there is no heirarchy the NestedQuotaDriver should exactly work like the DbQuotaDriver16:15
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schwickesorry, I had a networking problem and dropped out16:15
raildosajeesh, hum...16:15
vilobhmmso do we have a conclusion on this that atleast for root project we let the default  values be as it is whereas for sub-projects set it to 016:15
sajeeshfor that root projects should have default quota values16:16
sajeeshthat is one reason16:16
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vilobhmmand then let the admin update the quota for resp sub projects16:16
vilobhmmsajeesh : agree!16:16
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schwickeok, can we agree on this then ? I can't see anything wrong with that16:17
belmoreiraraildo: it will not be easy to merge this if you change current behaviour16:17
sajeeshthe other one is that , the test cases of many other api s other than quota are written by expecting from finite default quota values16:17
ericksonsantosbelmoreira ++16:17
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vilobhmmbelmoreira : +116:17
vilobhmmsajeesh's email to community explaining the same problem
raildobelmoreira, I don't want to change the behaviour, I just think that the current default quotas are not enough to a hierarchy, but I'm ok with that, this is not a big problem16:18
schwickeI  agree that it does not look too nice to have to distinguish the root project from any other projects. On the other hand, it is already kind of a bit special, isn't it ?16:19
sajeeshvalues can be changed based on the scale of the organization16:19
vilobhmmraildo : I agree the default are not enough but they can be changed IMHO using quota-update once the project is created16:19
vilobhmmsajeesh : true16:19
sajeeshyes , it is16:19
vilobhmmso if we agree on this nova, cinder can take the same route and we can keep the functionality unified16:20
schwickesounds good to me16:20
sajeeshvilob +116:20
ericksonsantosvilobhmm, so, we can do the same on cinder16:20
schwickevilob: +116:20
schwickeI wonder if we need to update the BP for this16:20
vilobhmmschwicke : the blueprint/spec already says that16:21
vilobhmmwe shoudl be good here16:21
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schwicke#agreed: the root project should have default quota values and children set the default quota to zero16:21
vilobhmmperfect !16:21
schwicke#agreed: we take the same approach for cinder and for nova16:22
schwickeLet's move on then16:22
schwicke#topic: writing unit tests16:22
*** openstack changes topic to ": writing unit tests (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)"16:22
schwickewhere are we with this ?16:22
vilobhmmUpdate : from cinder perspective I have not started it yet16:23
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vilobhmmwill need help here16:23
vilobhmmto move the patch quickly ahead16:23
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schwickevilobhmm: you mean the unit tests for cinder?16:23
sajeeshshwicke we have solve the issue with mocking keystone calls16:23
vilobhmmericsansantos has been very kind in providing help16:23
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sajeeshyes, thanks erickson16:23
vilobhmmschwicke : yes writing unit test for the nested quota driver changes16:23
ericksonsantossajeesh, how did you do that?16:24
schwickelet'smake that an action item then16:24
schwicke#action write unit tests for cinder16:24
sajeeshsorry...we have to solve the issue...I missed "to solve " :-)16:25
schwickeyes, next on the list16:25
schwickewhat is the status of the unit tests for nova then ?16:25
ericksonsantossajeesh, oh, I see16:25
sajeeshmocking keystone call is the road block16:25
schwicke#topic mocking keystone call16:26
*** openstack changes topic to "mocking keystone call (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)"16:26
sajeeshI am planning to take advice from the community,by sending a mail16:26
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belmoreirasajeesh: please do16:27
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vilobhmmsajeesh : is there any place in nova code where they have done it before that we can use as a reference i will check in cinder code16:27
ericksonsantosAbout the keystone calls, why don't you check if the specified project is a subproject16:27
raildoi recommend take a look in the nova and cinder tests. I believe that exists tests when they need to mock a keystone client, to request something in Keystone16:27
sajeeshvilob, no..16:27
ericksonsantos(make a keystone call in order to know if the project has a parent_id)16:27
vilobhmmraildo : +116:27
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ericksonsantoson the controller level and provide this information to the configured quota driver?16:27
sajeeshraildo, they are mocking at the begining of the api call , not in the middle16:28
ericksonsantossajeesh, we can do that too16:28
ericksonsantoswe only need to change the approach, I guess16:28
sajeesherickson, at controller won't it be having some other implications16:28
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ericksonsantossajeesh, can you explain?16:29
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sajeeshI am also not sure of it16:29
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sajeeshthat was why I had thought of taking advice from nova core16:29
ericksonsantosI think if we make keystone calls at the controller level we can mock it on functional tests16:30
vilobhmmericksonsantos : If you can give some kind of a reference it should be useful IMHO16:30
ericksonsantosand we just have to pass to the configured quota driver what it needs to know (if the project is a subproject, for example)16:30
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ericksonsantosso do you agree on that?16:32
belmoreiraI think it doesn't hurt asking in the mailing list. It also exposes the code for future review16:32
sajeeshbelmoreira ++16:32
schwickebelmoreira +116:32
raildojust to say that the other services don't access keystone directly, in other words, nova and cinder have to use the keystone client for that.16:32
vilobhmmbelmoreira: + 116:32
belmoreiraraildo: yes, that is my major concern16:33
schwickesajeesh: can you draft a mail to the mailing list then ?16:33
sajeeshyes ..surely16:33
vilobhmmraildo : true…as part of I see that is already done…16:33
vilobhmmsajeesh is using from keystoneclient.v3 import client16:34
vilobhmmto use keystone client to access keystone from nova IMHO16:34
vilobhmmand the approach should be same for unit test as well nova->keystoneclient->keystone16:35
vilobhmmmocked may be16:35
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vilobhmmso we agree that sajeesh will send out an email …lets move to next topic16:35
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schwicke#agreed Sajeesh will contact the mailing list to get advice on the keystone call16:36
sajeeshone more thing ...only the test code is failing , otherwise code is working fine and all the use cases in the bp has been implemented16:36
schwicke#action Sajeesh contact the mailing list to get advice on the keystone call16:36
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vilobhmmsajeesh : awesome !16:37
schwickeI had "synchronisation of quota changes in sub-projects with Nova" on my original topic list16:37
schwickewhich is essentially the keystone calls we just discussed.16:37
schwickeso let's move on16:37
schwicke#topic code availability and merging of patches16:37
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*** openstack changes topic to "code availability and merging of patches (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)"16:37
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ericksonsantossajeesh, so you've tested on devstack?16:38
sajeesherickson ,yes16:38
ericksonsantossajeesh, nice16:38
sajeeshCan you please test it ?16:38
ericksonsantossajeesh, sure16:39
vilobhmmUpdate for Cinder16:39
vilobhmm1. Seeing weird gate errors here otherwise this should get merged soon16:39
schwicke#action ericksonsantos will test the code16:39
vilobhmmhave enough +1, +216:39
vilobhmm2. Will send out code for default quota values based on what we agreed on in today meeting i.e root gets default sub-project gets 016:40
schwicke#action vilobhmm will update cinder code with agreed items from this meeting16:41
schwickeSajeesh has already uploaded the latest code, right ?16:41
vilobhmm3. I am on a family trip from Jun 24 - July 7th will work remotely as an when I get time…but I am commited to finshing my work on nested quota driver implementation..16:42
raildovilobhmm,  migrate.exceptions.ScriptError: You can only have one Python script per version, but you have: /home/jenkins/workspace/gate-cinder-python27/cinder/db/sqlalchemy/migrate_repo/versions/ and /home/jenkins/workspace/gate-cinder-python27/cinder/db/sqlalchemy/migrate_repo/versions/047_add_per_volume_quota.py16:42
raildovilobhmm, you need to do rebase on your patch16:42
vilobhmmneed to update the version of the table then16:42
raildovilobhmm, yes16:42
vilobhmmraildo : thanks for pointing that out….thats what happens when the reviews take longer :)16:42
schwickewant me to action item that /16:43
ericksonsantosvilobhmm, I can help you with that if you want to16:43
vilobhmmso if all all  can chip in for the review when i post it in next 1 hour for that will be helpful16:43
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vilobhmmeriksonsantos : I will get it rolling in next hour…please review it if you can….thank you!16:44
ericksonsantosvilobhmm, ok16:44
schwicke#action all: review next update of asap16:44
vilobhmmschwicke : thats it from my side16:44
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vilobhmmas in cinder nested quota driver16:45
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vilobhmmschwicke : thanks :)16:45
sajeeshschwicke: thanks a lot :-)16:45
schwickeso I think we are through with that as well16:45
vilobhmmand I will review all the patches that sajeesh will post so that we can move quicker..16:46
schwickeone thing is still not 100% clear to me: where are we with the unit test writing for the hierarchical quota in nova ?16:46
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sajeeshvilobh thanks....I will review yours16:46
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vilobhmmsajeesh : thanks!16:47
sajeeshschwicke, we have to solve the keystone issue16:47
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schwickeok, sure.16:47
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schwicke#topic AOB16:47
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)"16:47
sajeeshthen only we can proceed with the unit tests16:47
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vilobhmmschwicke : If we have covered all the topic I would like to have an open question for the team16:48
schwickeso let's see what the community says. I also think we should review next Friday.16:48
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schwickevilobhmm: please go ahead!16:48
vilobhmmso sajeesh more specifically to you…since you tested the code on devstack….how dis you structure your policy.json and how did you make sure that the nova quota commands that you use ; make sue of the keystone v3 api ?16:49
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sajeeshwhile testing the api calls , I use keystone v3 token token only16:51
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vilobhmmbut how did you structure your policy.json16:51
raildoand looking in the policy.json, you need a admin role16:51
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sajeeshnova policy engine will take care of it16:51
vilobhmmbecause for token scoping that changes needs to be there16:51
ericksonsantosvilobhmm, ++16:51
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sajeeshI have changed the policy rules16:52
vilobhmmI don't see a change for policy.json here…do they need to here ?16:52
vilobhmmraildo : sure16:52
vilobhmmthanks for the link16:52
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sajeeshvilob it is a different change16:53
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vilobhmmalrite then16:53
vilobhmmthat makes sense16:53
sajeeshyou can traverse the dependancy chain and find it16:53
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vilobhmmsajeesh : if you can point me to that change it will be ncie16:54
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vilobhmmthats it from my side…thank you all…I think this meeting was really helpful !16:55
vilobhmmnice to meet you all ! :)16:55
schwickenice to meet you!16:55
schwickeso let's meet again in a week from now!16:55
raildosee you next week :)16:55
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schwickelet's try to gain some speed. The sooner we contact the comunity the better16:55
schwickencie week end!16:55
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sajeeshGood Bye all16:55
ericksonsantossee you16:56 too !16:56
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openstackMeeting ended Fri Jun 19 16:56:06 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:56
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openstackMinutes (text):
sajeeshNice weekend :-)16:56
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wbhuber_notmyname: peluse: i should be getting some performance benchmarking numbers out on tuesday (via github outlet) or some sort.  right now i'm getting numbers crunched in a literal manner.  stay tuned.17:09
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eglute#startmeeting Diversity Working Group18:00
openstackMeeting started Fri Jun 19 18:00:57 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eglute. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Diversity Working Group)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'diversity_working_group'18:01
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rainyahihi eglute :)18:01
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kavithello all18:01
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egluteHello Everyone, if you are here for openstack diversity working group, please waive o/ and lets use etherpad:
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eglute#topic introductions18:02
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TamaraJ o/18:02
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lsellhi everyone18:03
eglute#chair kavit18:03
openstackCurrent chairs: eglute kavit18:03
* AlanClark does 'o\' show that I am left handed?18:03
eglute#chair imadsousou18:03
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openstackCurrent chairs: eglute imadsousou kavit18:03
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egluteAlanClark \o does!18:03
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nikiacostahi there!18:04
AlanClark\o (for diversity :-)18:04
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imadsousouHi Alan18:05
AlanClark(Friday humor)18:05
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egluteHi Everyone! Raise your right, left, or both hands if you are attending the meeting. \o o/ \o/18:05
kavitsouth paws represent! \o (hi Alan)18:05
imadsousou\o/ \o/ \o/18:06
egluteIs Carol B. here? she sent out a lot of the communications about the working group18:06
barrettyes, I'm here18:06
eglute#chair barrett18:06
openstackCurrent chairs: barrett eglute imadsousou kavit18:06
eglutehello barrett!18:07
barrettHi eglute18:07
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barrettDo we want to start with the 1st topic on the agenda?18:07
kavitI think we should18:07
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barrett#topic Introductions18:08
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barrettCan folks indentify who they are and what company they are with?18:08
nikiacostaNiki Acosta, Cloud Evangelist, Cisco18:08
jfleetjfleet Cloud30418:08
imadsousouImad Sousou - Intel18:08
* kavit Kavit Munshi - Aptira18:08
rainyaRainya Mosher, Product Manager, Rackspace18:08
ninagNina Goradia, IBM18:08
ShillaSaebimy name is Shilla - OpenStack Operations Engineer, Comcast18:09
AlanClarkAlan Clark SUSE18:09
egluteEgle Sigler, Principal Architect at Rackspace18:09
* jbryce works at OpenStack Foundation18:09
arcee2Val Wanjura, Technical Ops Mgr, Rackspace18:09
gpruessmannGerd Pruessmann, Deutsche Telekom AG18:09
lsellLauren Sell, OpenStack Foundation18:09
electrocucarachaVictor Morales - Intel18:09
cmasseyClaire Massey, OpenStack Foundation18:09
wznoinskWaldemar Znoinski - Intel18:09
TamaraJohnstonTamara Johnston, EMC Global Services - Cloud18:09
barrettCarol Barrett, Intel18:09
RockygRocky Grober, Huawei18:10
barrettGreat group!18:10
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barrettLet's go to the next agenda item18:10
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barrett#topic Mission Discussion and definition of Diversity18:11
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MauriMauri Whalen - Intel18:11
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barrettYou can find the mission for the group on the wiki page18:11
barrettIt is: The OpenStack Foundation Board of Directors is committed to fostering an inclusive and welcoming place for all people to collaborate to drive innovation and design cutting-edge data center capabilities. This Work Group is chartered to determine what actions are required to fulfill this commitment18:12
MeganRMegan Rossetti - Comcast18:12
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ShillaSaebinice, I like the mission statement18:12
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kavitWe had some healthy discussion at the summit board meeting in Vacouver and received some feedback from the board about tweaking the charter18:12
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barrettThere has been some discussion about how we define diversity, would be interested in discussing that here18:12
barrettkavit: +118:13
kavitalso the Diversity wiki doesnt have the charter that was discussed18:13
eglutei am trying to find it, just a minute18:13
nikiacostadiversity - eliminate bias on the basis of age, race, creed, color, sex, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, marital status, and socioeconomic status.18:13
*** esker has joined #openstack-meeting18:13 diversity, noun, : the quality or state of having many different forms, types, ideas, etc. : the state of having people who are different races or who have different cultures in a group or organization18:13
nikiacostathat's the general definition18:13
ShillaSaebiand all sexes18:14
nikiacostais the focus on this specficially for cultural diversity and gender diversity primarily? what are the goals?18:14
RockygI think, for Open source, we need to expand diversity to include QA engnineers, UX, Ops, etc.  They are kinda ghetto-ized, too18:14
rainyafor me diversity is really about getting a variety of *thought* more than anything; so that any problem has lots of diferent viewpoints and experiences coloring the outcome18:14
egluteI pasted the proposed charter into etherpad: #link
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ninagrainya: +118:15
eglutesorry lost formatting :(18:15
kavitmaybe paste it in here also if people arent opposed to a small wall of text :)18:16
rainyaand that variety comes from different disciplines (engineers, devs, qa, ux, ops, product managers) as well as cultural and gender backgrounds18:16
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nikiacosta"while finding answers to our most pressing challenges" - are we talking about openstack's most pressing challenges? if so, what are those?18:16
barrettrainya: +118:17
nikiacostaie, where are we falling short?18:17
eglutenikiacosta that is what we are hoping to define18:17
Rockygrainya:  +118:17
nikiacostais there an opinion that openstack is not welcoming enough? or that we're not welcoming to women?18:17
nikiacostaor people of other countries?18:18
jfleetOpenstack Challenges to me seem to be information to the masses as to what it does. They know about what the name is but what does it do, has been what I see out here...18:18
egluteSome things we have seen: not enough women, not enough geographical diversity18:18
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nikiacostagotcha. so what are the goals?18:18
electrocucarachaeglute: +118:18
ShillaSaebinot that I know of but I think we should try to make it known that we are welcoming to all18:18
nikiacostawhat is the general ratio of women to men in tech?18:18
RockygQA from the QA discipline is different from what OS QA is.  The ones that turn up tend to get very frustrated18:18
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imadsousoubroadly speaking, and this is probably an overall tech statement; diversity tends to be lacking in the areas including including race, color, religion, sex,national origin, language, ancestry, age, disability, medical condition, genetic information, military andveteran status, marital status, pregnancy, gender, gender expression, gender identity, sexual orientationand other aspects18:18
nikiacostathat should give us a baseline for the gender part18:18
imadsousouso the real question is what is it that we should be doing as project and community and foundation to encourage diversity18:19
wznoinsknikiacosta: eglute is that more of a 'diversity' challenges (ie. to invite more people that may be separated in one way or the other) or rather openstack's technical challenges (like features, containers, service chaining) ?18:19
ShillaSaebiimadsousou +118:19
nikiacostaseems to me we want to be welcoming to all, but specific drivers are those aimed at women and "geographical" diversity18:19
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nikiacostacan we start with those?18:19
kavitI think there needs to be a clearly defined diversity policy, we have a transparency polcy. It makes sense to have a diversity policy so there is no place for ambiguity. We also  need clarity with setting diversity goals. Each group inside the OpenStack ecosystem can Identify what those goals are for their group and we as the working group can help them with it18:19
RockygOutreach can extend beyond internships to talks at schools, weekend hackathons, etc18:20
wznoinsk... and to invite more diverse ppl to these challenges18:20
electrocucarachaimadsousou: at the end is not to have diversity by diversity, it's because diversity in talent isn't it?18:20
rainyanikiacosta, one of the things i have heard numerous times is getting started in OpenStack is difficult; jsut in the last week, a woman Quality Engineer and were talking about how she wants to get started, but the ramp up seems extreme and counter to her day job18:20
nikiacostathat's addressable.18:20
nikiacostathrough programs.18:20
nikiacostai think18:20
rainyanikiacosta, +1 on women and geography18:20
ShillaSaebiwhat about transgenders?18:20
ShillaSaebiI don't think it should be just women18:21
rainyai consider a transgender woman a woman18:21
rainyaif she ID's as female, then she is in my book18:21
Rockygmentors are extremely important18:21
imadsousouI think a good start would be to focus on things to do (policies and otherwise) that would encourage under-represented 'segments' and then how do we retain these folks... what policies  or otherwise to encourage this kind of retention18:21
nikiacostawe can't boil the ocean. let's keep the scope narrow for programs that will address the most pressing issues. of course we want to be welcoming to everyone, but geographical and gender are at the top of the list, our focus shoudl be on those.18:21
amandap+1 nikiacosta18:22
barrettnikiacosta: +118:22
imadsousouin order to really do anything, we first need metrics...18:22
nikiacostathat doesn't mean the others aren't important.18:22
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divya+1 for mentoring18:22
rainyaand while focusing on gender diversity, how to NOT persecute the men already in the community or who might want to join!18:22
imadsousouso do we have good metrics on diversity in the various openstack aspects18:22
kavitI think drivers should follow a broad set of guidelines and policies. Firstly we need a policy document that any openstack group can look at and ascertain where they are18:22
Rockygrainya:  +118:22
nikiacosta+1 rainya!18:22
rainyaI don't want to be mean girls. :(18:23
ShillaSaebiyeah I agree with that completely18:23
egluteI have updated Etherpad with stats that lsell has prepared before vancouver summit18:23
rainyaI see it way too often with diversity efforts!18:23
barrettLots of good thoughts and disucssion. I'm wondering if we can ask a couple of folks to draft a diversity definition for this group that we can dicusss in a future meeting?18:23
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TamaraJohnstonI think a good start is the stats from the OpenStack summit, where woman were what, 10% of the attendees? Do we have diversity stats on the members of the community?18:23
amandapimadsousou: There were some metrics mentioned on the number of women attending summit -- that's the only one I know of.  barrett, are there more out there?18:23
rainyathat's great eglute! starting on Line 5518:23
ShillaSaebiI remember hearing 10%18:23
nikiacostathat's the thing-- once you create sub-groups, you essentially are re-emphasizing the divide. challenge is to offer encouragement, support, programs, without it feeling devisive.18:24
RockygIf we divide the work, mentors can be quickly applied to diverse people who want to participate.  Metrics can be collected in parallel18:24
rainyaTamaraJohnston, the panel i was on for diversity in vancouver cited 9%, up from Paris by 4% i believe?18:24
barrettimadsousou: yes, I think there is more data we can mine.18:24
imadsousoubut do we have metrics on things as contributions?18:24
eglute• 10% - Vancouver, May 201518:25
eglute• 10% - Paris, Nov 201418:25
eglute• 9% - Atlanta, may 201418:25
eglute• 7% - Hong Kong, Nov 201318:25
TamaraJohnstonYeah i forget if it was 4 or 5%18:25
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imadsousouI think its a great start to have the summit metrics... I saw these - great18:25
rainyathis is saying it was 10%?18:25
TamaraJohnstonty eglute18:25
kavitI think we need the board to ratify the working group charter, we should try and get the language sorted for the charter so that the concerns raised by legal counsel and other board members are assauged.18:25
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wznoinskimadsousou: a long shot but is it doable to get gender info from openstack Communit Member (when you register on you select your gender)18:25
egluteline 145 in ethepad for statistics18:25
rainyaGeographic Demographics18:25
rainyaVancouver Summit (May 2015) Attendee Demographics (5,600+ - updated count will be tallied on Monday night)18:25
rainya• 75%  -  North America18:25
rainya• 12%  -  Europe18:25
amandapeglute: Where are those stats from?18:25
rainya• 10%  -  APAC18:25
rainya• 2%    -  Middle East18:25
rainya• 1%    -  Latin America18:25
rainya starts on Line 55, lsell prepared them18:25
barrettkavit: +118:26
egluteamandap lsell has provided them18:26
rainyakavit, what was some of the feedback on the charter in Vancouver?18:26
nikiacostaSo if men outnumber women 7 to 3, we should aim for at least 70% to 30% split amongst attendees, yes?18:26
eglutenikiacosta that would be great18:26
eglutefeedback we received on the charter: too broad18:27
nikiacostaI think the location of the summits also drive ability to attend.18:27
kavitrainya, there was general agreement on the need for the workgroup, the feedback was mostly about the operational scope of the charter18:27
rainyaimadsousou, we could check with stefano and see if there are contribution numbers avaialble by gender? and geography? as well as company18:27
barrettIt seems like we need to agree on a definition of Diversity to help guide our analysis and data mining - do people agree?18:27
TamaraJohnstonnikiacosta +118:27
eglutenikiacosta agree on attendance, the foundation moves them from place to place on purpose, to increase geographical representation18:27
imadsousouunlikely this is true -- I've seen many other surveys... and frankly, you do not need a survey just walk around any high tech enviorenemt18:27
nikiacosta@barrett- agreed. we need goals.18:28
kavitwe need to be more specific and have no legal ambiguity about the mandate of the working group18:28
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ShillaSaebibarrett yes18:28
eglutelets start with some action items.18:28
eglute#action rainya to check with stefano and see if there are contribution numbers avaialble by gender? and geography? as well as company18:28
ozstackerExcept that every second summit is in North America?18:28
kaviteglute, imho first item on the list should be about getting the charter approved by the BoD in the July F2F18:28
barrettnikiacosta: I think the definition or scope will enable use to set goals -- and then define programs to achieve them18:28
lsellfirst a heads up to the group that stefano is no longer with the foundation. he will still be an active part of the community at another ecosystem company, but just FYI18:28
eglutekavit agree we need that too!18:28
barretteglute: +118:28
lsellshameless plug, we are hiring community managers :)18:29
nikiacostaso can we agree that geographic and gender diversity top the list?18:29
eglutelsell thank you for the update18:29
nikiacostais there a third?18:29
lsellsecond, my understanding unfortunately is that we do not currently have visibility into contributor diversity and gender data18:29
eglute+1 on geographic and gender diversity top the list18:29
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egluteok, i remove my first action item18:29
nikiacostaso let's focus on these. we can include a statement that openstack welcomes anyone regardless of x,y,z...18:30
ShillaSaebican you explain what you mean about geographic diversity?18:30
barrettimadsousou: +118:30
nikiacostamore contributors from other parts of the world18:30
nikiacostamore attendee representation from other countries.18:30
gpruessmannW.r.t. geographic diversity: number of attendees from Africa? Below the line? i guess a list of "top attending"  geographical areas is exactly the opposite of what we need, we need a list of non-attending countries, isn't it? or low number attending countries?18:30
barrettAre we in agreement on these 3 elements for our diviersity effort: Geographic, Gender, Race?18:30
RockygSo, part of the problem is that many of the local events around the world don't make it to the OpenStack Community list of events18:30
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nikiacostado we have visiblity into where downloads are happening?18:30
jbrycealso, the board actually agreed that the working group should get started as it would be bring individual actions back for approval if necessary18:30
nikiacostaby country?18:30
ShillaSaebiRace is a big one in my eyes18:31
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jfleetRace is big for me18:31
nikiacostai wonder if the linux foundation or other open source groups have stats18:31
imadsousouwe can discuss geographic by region or country... I like region: North America, Europe, etc...18:31
nikiacostato use as a baseline18:31
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nikiacostawe need somethign to mirror18:31
jbryceand we can do a lot through the volunteers here and staff efforts without holding things up for board meetings18:31
barrett#agree The priority elements for our diviersity efforts now will be: Geographic, Gender, Race18:32
kavitimadsousou, regions make more sense, I would agree with that18:32
RockygWell, MIT has tons of stats and it's 48% female for undergrad18:32
rainyalsell, thank you for the information! good to know; will see what other options there are to mine the data18:32
nikiacostaAnd what is our average age of openstack founation member?18:32
RockygI can get you the MIT stats.  They break it down by major, too.18:32
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nikiacostaIMO, probably will take a while for undergrads to enter the job market18:32
nikiacostawhat's the national average?18:32
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barrettIs the next action to get volunteers to take on defining the terms for each item?18:33
rainyanikiacosta, what national average are you asking about? lost track18:33
eglutebarrett i think so18:33
RockygMIT has been 45+% female for ten years.18:33
nikiacostaMIT is amazing.18:33
nikiacostafew schools have programs that recruit women as effectively.18:34
nikiacostaour avearge should be in line by national averages.18:34
RockygThe school has the stats going back to the beginning.  We can see what there stats were for grads 5 years out, ten, etc18:34
nikiacostayou could do it by region18:34
Vince_Has religion been put in to the mix?  Multitasking and not sure I saw anything about it.18:34
nikiacostaFYI-- would regions be N. america, europe, asia/s. pacific, etc?18:34
ShillaSaebino it hasn't, religion and age are other good ones18:34
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barrettOK - volunteers for defining these terms? With an eye to the next step being data analysis....18:34
rainyame me me!18:34
RockygReligion has not been focused on, but itis in the mix18:35
barrettrainya: which one do you want to take?18:35
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nikiacostaRace is a hot debate that (based on my facebook feed) is creating a lot of let's just say "passionate posts"18:35
ShillaSaebiyup absolutely18:35
ozstacker"national averages" wow.18:35
egluteOne of the issues with the diversity proposal we had was that it was too broad. we need to focus first on the top, for our diversity efforts now will be: Geographic, Gender, Race18:35
rainyabarrett, is there another one besides "diversity" ? are we looking to define geographic deviersty / gender deviersity / race diversity?18:36
barrettnikiacosta: do you want to take race?18:36
ozstackeryou might want to take a wider view.18:36
nikiacostai think geograhaphic goals will also create racial diveresity without saying "racial diversity"18:36
barretteglute: +118:36
egluteozstacker we did, and were told we were overreaching, that it would be too broad and nothing would get done.18:36
nikiacostaCreating programs to attract people by race is not a good idea.18:36
eglutenikiacosta, sorry, what do you object to?18:37
jfleetWhy is that not a good idea ?18:37
barrettrainya: Its the 3 areas of:  Geographic, Gender, Race18:37
jbryceeglute: i think tristan (aka ozstacker) is picking on the use of the term “national” specifically18:37
amandapfuture exploration should certainly be on age and disability as well18:37
eglutetoo many people talking at once18:37
RockygIt's too much like quotas18:37
eglutejbryce thanks18:37
kavitnational pertains to numbers in the US only, I think we should look past that18:37
rainyai am writing a couple notes / thoughts in the etherpad; i started with gender and geographic and then hit a wall at race18:37
nikiacostaBecause it's difficult to create programs aimed at racial groups without potential backlash.18:37
nikiacostait's a sensitive topic.18:37
rainyaso very sensitive18:37
Rockyg+100 for age ;-)18:37
amandapeglute: Agreed, but it's nice to see a large group interested18:37
barrettamandap: +1, I think we can look to other aspects of diversity in the future...18:38
nikiacostaCultural diversity? okay18:38
nikiacostaRace? not so much18:38
ShillaSaebithats fine18:38
rainyaBarrett: "Top areas of focus for diversity: GENDER (male to female ratio); GEOGRAPHIC (downloads, contribution, and attendance by country; what countries / regions have low or NO representation?); CULTURE"18:38
nikiacostahow do we define "cutlural diversity" goals without leaving folks out?18:38
egluteamandap i am excited to see so many interested people! we need all kinds of diversity, and there should be no exclusion/discrimination based on anything18:39
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nikiacostaGeograpic diversity, gender divesity.18:39
RockygSo, Class is one of the really biggest issues.  If you look at class, you will find most of the other issues embedded18:39
amandaprainya: barrett "male to female ratio" isn't sitting well with me, can it be a more inclusive metric?18:39
kavitI think we should work towards a diveristy policy, it should be one of our proposals to the BoD to approve18:39
Rockygnerd to non-nerd ;-)18:40
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eglutewho can help with the diversity policy?18:40
nikiacostaI'm thinking ahead. Programs. Programs aimed at geograhpies and women/transgender, great!18:40
rainyaamandap, barett: agreed! perhaps we can work on it through email?18:40
eglutetaking volunteers to help define diversity policy18:40
nikiacostaprograms aimed at cultural diversity? hard!18:40
barrettkavit: Agree, think we should consider creating diversity statements to add to the Code of Coonduct18:40
ShillaSaebiI can help with it18:40
eglutethank you ShillaSaebi anyone else?18:40
nikiacostaMale to female to trans/cisgender?18:40
rainyaeglute: i think that's what i thought I was signing up for with definitions so i will!18:40
amandaprainya: barrett That would be great18:41
nikiacostabuddy program!!!!!18:41
amandapeglute: I can help18:41
barrettamandap: Yes, we can do that. Do you want to lead the discussion to define Gender diversity for this group?18:41
Rockygprograms offered in places where breaking the barriers is happening, not so hard?18:41
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eglutevolunteer list at line 49 in etherpad, thanks rainya18:42
amandapbarrett: Sure, that should an interesting one :)18:42
rainya#action rainya amandap to collaboration on diversity defintions for GENDER, GEOGRAPHIC, CULTURE18:42
barrett#action rainya amandap to collaboration on diversity defintions for GENDER, GEOGRAPHIC, CULTURE18:42
rainyapretend I spell more gooder than i do18:42
nikiacostaIs there a way to update membership to include "tags" for openstack foundation members? And ability to make your tags available for others to search?18:42
nikiacosta@rainya lol18:43
rainyanikiacosta, you're solutioning i think :)18:43
eglutekavit can you lead the diversity definion work?18:43
nikiacostai am. because i want to make sure that the things we focus on are actionble.18:43
rainyanikiacosta, i could be wrong, but it feels like it might be! LOL18:43
eglutethank you kavit18:43
kaviteglute, aye aye!18:43
ozstackerYou really need to establish the policy first and then set measurable objectives.18:43
egluteozstacker can you help with the policy?18:44
barrettkavit: When do you think you can review a draft with this group?18:44
gpruessmann"cultural diversity" from my point of view is not specific enough, it is hard to focus on specific actions / programs. additionally the community consists of thousands of participants from all continents and hundreds  of countries. an external person probably would not consider the OS community having issues with "cultural diversity" i guess18:44
nikiacostaI don't think you can set cultural diversity objectives objectively.18:44
kavitozstacker, I have put that an action item18:44
nikiacosta@gpruessmann - that's what i'm sayin!18:45
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ozstackerAnd next step is have a meeting that is 12 hours different to this one, and include others before deciding on _anything_18:45
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nikiacostais there any group/company/foundation that y'all think are doing it "right"?18:45
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eglute#action kavit ozstacker ShillaSaebi rainya amandap nikiacosta to work on defining diversity policy18:46
nikiacostagender and geography are kind of easy. culture is hard.18:46
rainyaeglute, barrett: time check; there are 15 minutes left18:46
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barrettOK - we have a team formed to work on the diversity definition. Can we move to the next agenda topic?18:46
kavitbarrett, I am available at the earliest. We can do it in 2 weeks. needs to before the next f2f BoD meeting18:46
ozstackernikiacosta,  Yeah, Telstra seems to be onto it.18:46
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eglutebarrett agreed, i would like to talk about meeting frequency/times18:46
kavitnikiacosta, ozstacker was right, telstra have done well18:47
barrettkavit: agree, needs to be done well before next BoD. Think we'd actually like to have an analysis complete against the definition for the July BoD meeting18:47
nikiacostaAnyone here from Telstra?18:47
Rockygniki: a couple of companies, but I can't remember the names at the moment18:47
eglute#topic meeting frequency and time18:47
*** openstack changes topic to "meeting frequency and time (Meeting topic: Diversity Working Group)"18:47
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nikiacostaonce every two or three weeks?18:48
ozstackerThey might be if it wasn't 4am here :)18:48
eglutesince this is our first meeting, please list your time zone. would you attend meetings if they were at alternate times?18:48
egluteeglute CST18:48
amandapSpeaking of fostering geographical diversity ;-)18:48
barrettI wonder if we want to have weekly meetings, given the interest, and alternate them between US/EMEA-friendly and APAC/Japan-friendly?18:48
rainyarainya CST18:48
kavitKavit IST18:48
amandapPT and yes18:48
nikiacostaI think we should nominate leads for geographies.18:48
jfleetEST yes18:49
ozstackerMaybe fortnightly, but flip the time 12 hours. Then we'll see who's dedicated attending both :)18:49
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RockygUTC -7/818:49
rainyaRockyg, what is that in nont UTC? EST?18:49
rainyaEDT really18:49
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rainyaozstacker, what's your timezone?18:50
eglutenikiacosta how would leads for geographies work? what do you have in mind?18:50
RockygPST  But doing the offset from utc is the best.  People don't know all the abreviations18:50
rainyaRockyg, agreed! I'm making a note in the attedee list and will translate :D18:50
RockygPDT = utc-7  PST=utc-818:50
kavithe is AEST and I am IST (UTC + 1000 and UTC + 0530 respectively)18:50
ozstackerAs an example, this meeting time is 5 to 6pm on  a Friday night in Western Europe. Who in their right mind would want to attend at that time.18:50
Rockygozstacker: nerds18:51
ozstackerrainya  Here it's 4am18:51
rainyathanks kavit!18:51
amandapRockyg: 1 point to you18:51
barrettMeet every 2 weeks and alternate times to be globally inclusive?18:51
eglutethat is why i am proposing alternating times, cause it will be hard to find optimal time18:51
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eglutebarrett i like that18:51
* kavit seconds barrett 18:51
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gpruessmannfoster time zone diversity18:52
nikiacosta@eglute - hard to meet everyone's needs, but if we had 3 or 4 people in a core group for geographies who could serve as delegates, it might make it easier to get stuff done18:52
kavitbe equally inconvenient for everyone :)18:52
eglutenikiacosta that is good idea.18:52
barrettHow about I take the action item to start 1-2 doodles to find the best times for us to meet?18:52
Rockygnikiacosta: +118:52
gpruessmann@kavit +118:52
barrettnikiacosta: +118:52
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eglute#action barrett to start 1-2 doodles to find the best times for us to meet?18:52
RockygMight consider three times, with reps attending 2 of three18:52
nikiacostagreat idea, rocky.18:53
ShillaSaebigood idea18:53
barrettRockyG: Not quite sure why we need 3...?18:53
barrettRockyG: Will circle round with you offline before I setup doodles18:53
nikiacostaeven two options woudl be great!18:54
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Rockygbecause all the times otherwise chosen are still inconvenient for the folks on the cusps18:54
ozstackernor am i. the ambassadors manage to function with two times.18:54
nikiacostatwo times. do it!18:54
barrettnikiacosta: How do we get the geo rep delegates?18:54
Rockygambassadors are supposed to be shining examples18:54
Rockygbarrett: ++18:54
eglute#agreed on two alternating times18:54
TamaraJohnstonI would like to be a member of the core group for AMS and/or West coast (apologies if my messages are coming across delayed... my internet connection is horrible this morning!).18:54
kavitambassadors gonna ambassadate18:54
nikiacostaonce we have times, we can seek nominees.18:54
nikiacostalol @kavit!!!!18:55
barrettnikiacosta: +118:55
imadsousounikiacosta: +118:55
rainya+ <318:55
barrett5 mins left - we'll use doodles to set our next meeting time, targeting 2 weeks. What else do we want to cover before we're done?18:55
nikiacostai think the magic number for getting stuff done is teams of 7 to 9 max18:55
rainyadiversity of support nods! ;)18:56
eglute#action nikiacosta to seek ambassadors for different time zones once we have the times set18:56
rainyanikiacosta, works for scrum! 5 to 7 is ideal. 9 is pushing it18:56
nikiacostahow am i signing myself up for more work?!?!18:56
rainyanikiacosta, glutton?18:56
amandaprainya: but that's not fostering diversity of group size ;-)18:56
eglutenikiacosta you can also decline and i will volunteer someone else :)18:57
rainyayou'll have help! I have been well under repped in my openstack participating this year so am making up for it18:57
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Rockygnikiacosta: another underrepresented group --masochists?18:57
rainya[i also have a migraine right now from the dumb weather here so words are fuuuun]18:57
egluteso we are almost out of time, i think we have some great action items. Question: do we need a separate mailing list for this work group?18:57
egluteright now we are using foundation@18:57
rainyai'd love to see a dedicated list personally18:58
amandapnikiacosta:  rainya I'll also help -- though I expect you would kill it18:58
nikiacostai bet we have a good idea of nominees. ambassadors should be able to give us good insight into who their most vocal folks are18:58
kavitwe cant have two 2 and two 3s in the action items :P18:58
eglute+1 on the list if you would like a new mailing list18:58
nikiacostayes! amandap!!!18:58
rainyaamandap, i like your style!18:58
ShillaSaebi+1 on the ML18:58
ozstackerplease no more mailing lists :(18:58
eglutewe have +2 and -1, any others18:58
ozstackerthere is next to nothing on Foundation and Community. Lets please use those.18:58
jbrycewhat if we defer on the mailing list until we see if there’s enough traffic to justify a new one18:58
ShillaSaebisounds good18:59
Rockyg2 2s and 2 3s just want to exist in peace!18:59
rainyajbryce, good call18:59
eglutejbryce ok, that will work18:59
jbryceotherwise it risks becoming another hard-to-find, easy-to-forget channel18:59
kavit+1 jbryce18:59
TamaraJohnstonjbryce - agree18:59
nikiacostaSo community list?>18:59
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rainyathat's leadership in action!18:59
barrettjbryce: +118:59
eglutefoundation@ nikiacosta18:59
gpruessmannno ML diversity please18:59
nikiacostacommunity + foundation or community OR foudnation18:59
rainyaJUST foundation@ yes?19:00
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kavitwe should stick to one to avoid split replies19:00
eglute+1 foundation19:00
gpruessmann+1 foundation19:00
barrett+1 foundation19:00
ozstackeri better resub to Foundation then I guess. Jeez. Just when I thought I was out....19:00
barrettWe're out of time for today - glad to see so many enthusiastic folks getting involved!19:00
Rockyg+1 with [Diversity] label19:00
barrettKeep an eye out for the Doodles19:00
eglutethanks everyone for attending! and great conversation!19:01
barrettRockyG +119:01
rainyathank you all! great times.19:01
amandapRockyg: +119:01
kavityou could have just gone to bed a bit earlier ozstacker :)19:01
ozstackerni nite19:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:01
openstackMeeting ended Fri Jun 19 19:01:17 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:01
MeganRThank you19:01
openstackMinutes (text):
gpruessmanngood nite19:01
kavitciao for now19:01
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