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| ttx | ohai | 13:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| dhellmann | o/ | 13:01 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 13:01 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting releaseteam | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 29 13:01:36 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam' | 13:01 |
| ttx | Agenda for today at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Cycle_Management#Meeting | 13:01 |
| ttx | you can add extra topics as-needed | 13:02 |
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| ttx | #topic Liberty-1 milestone postmortem | 13:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty-1 milestone postmortem (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 13:02 | |
| ttx | We used https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/HxkvsrXqgu to track work there | 13:02 |
| ttx | Came up with a checklist that I think we can publish on the wiki for reuse in future milestones | 13:03 |
| ttx | any objection to that ? | 13:03 |
| dhellmann | the list worked well for me, so let's start with this one and add things if we find them | 13:03 |
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| ttx | We had a number of issues with the new tools, most of them fixed | 13:04 |
| dhellmann | milestone.sh needs some work to be more idempotent | 13:04 |
| ttx | I'll move the remaining tasks to our main wiki page | 13:04 |
| ttx | agreed on idempotency | 13:05 |
| ttx | our mix of shell and python isn't ideal for that though | 13:05 |
| ttx | which is why I deferred that task forever now :) | 13:05 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I was thinking about that last week when thinking about the automation tool | 13:05 |
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| dhellmann | I might rewrite release_postversion.sh in python, converting bits of it to a library that makes reuse easier | 13:06 |
| ttx | We'll come up with some python library to do the tagging and all | 13:06 |
| ttx | I suspect there is some git python library we can use to avoid shelling out from python | 13:06 |
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| dhellmann | we might even be able to reuse parts of pbr | 13:06 |
| ttx | yep, this is more an enhacement once we cover the urgent stuff | 13:07 |
| dhellmann | right | 13:07 |
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| ttx | I'll take the action to break up that etherpad into a checklist and a number of tasks on the main etherpad | 13:07 |
| ttx | #action ttx to break up the L1 etherpad into a checklist and a number of tasks on the main etherpad | 13:08 |
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| ttx | anything else on liberty-1 ? I think we survived the transition to new tracking / new versioning gracefully | 13:08 |
| dhellmann | yes, it has gone fairly smoothly so far | 13:08 |
| dhellmann | have we had any feedback from the distros, or is it too early for them to be looking at packaging? | 13:09 |
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| ttx | no feedback yet | 13:09 |
| ttx | probably too early | 13:09 |
| * ttx checks | 13:09 | |
| ttx | done at Ubuntu | 13:10 |
| ttx | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nova | 13:10 |
| ttx | 2:12.0.0~b1-0ubuntu1 | 13:10 |
| dhellmann | good | 13:10 |
| ttx | means we ahven't completely borked our communication plan around this | 13:10 |
| ttx | alright, next topic | 13:11 |
| ttx | #topic Deliverables | 13:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Deliverables (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 13:11 | |
| ttx | Wanted to discuss this concept and see how we can make progress on it, if we need to | 13:11 |
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| ttx | the idea is that there already are a number of repositories that are released in sync | 13:11 |
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| ttx | by in sync I mean with same tag at the same time | 13:11 |
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| ttx | the archetypal example here is openstack/neutron* | 13:12 |
| ttx | well | 13:12 |
| ttx | no | 13:12 |
| ttx | openstack/neutron + openstack-neutron-*aas | 13:12 |
| ttx | since those days a lot of things are called openstack/neutron* | 13:12 |
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| dhellmann | would you expect the releases for those things to all use the same release notes? | 13:13 |
| ttx | Those 4 repos are tagged at the same time with the same version number, and form a single "deliverable" | 13:13 |
| ttx | dhellmann: they do. Also share the same Launchpad project | 13:13 |
| dhellmann | ok | 13:13 |
| ttx | which makes "release pages" quite consistent on that end | 13:13 |
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| ttx | We have another project that has the same profile | 13:13 |
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| ttx | openstack/sahara releases together with sahara-extra and sahara-image-elements | 13:14 |
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| dhellmann | in that case using the same file in the releases repo might make sense | 13:14 |
| ttx | right, which is why I think it should be deliverable-oriented | 13:14 |
| * dhellmann checks to see if that spec is approved | 13:14 | |
| dhellmann | no, it's not | 13:14 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191193/ | 13:15 |
| dhellmann | I thought we might get that approved last week, and I might start building the tool, but that didn't happen. | 13:15 |
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| ttx | Now, if we recognize that this concept exists, I think we need to take over releasing for sahara-extra and sahara-image-elements. So far Sergey has been on deck to tag at the same time | 13:15 |
| dhellmann | I could update the spec to make it work for deliverables, since it's a relatively minor change to the filename and schema | 13:15 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yeah, i wouldn't bother on spec and just iterate on format/tool | 13:15 |
| dhellmann | yeah, we should probably do all of them | 13:15 |
| dhellmann | ok | 13:16 |
| ttx | I don't see any other obvious candiadte, though I think some of the -ui projects would like to do the same | 13:16 |
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| ttx | My main question at this point is.. if we recognize those are things, where should we keep track of them | 13:17 |
| dhellmann | the yet-to-be-created releases repository seems like the obvious candidate | 13:17 |
| ttx | I can see some value in introducing the concept in projects.yaml (since that would allow deliverable-level tags), but that may be overkilkl | 13:17 |
| dhellmann | one file per deliverable per branch, as you proposed | 13:17 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, let's try to keep the format there simple if we can | 13:18 |
| ttx | Right, we could consider that a release property and just encode it in the release system | 13:18 |
| ttx | because that is what it is... describe how to release that "thing" | 13:18 |
| dhellmann | right | 13:18 |
| ttx | my only objection would be that from a use point of view, they should consume deliverables, not repositories | 13:19 |
| ttx | user* | 13:19 |
| ttx | i.e. it's easier for them to be presented with deliverables, rather than hunt down some obscure repo to find that sahara comes with sahara-extra | 13:19 |
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| ttx | and therefore if those are the things users see, and tags are meant to describe things for users... at least some tags would make better sense being applied at deliverable-level | 13:20 |
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| dhellmann | we could use the release data to render some web pages, too, if that would be useful | 13:20 |
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| dhellmann | but I see what you mean | 13:21 |
| ttx | practical example: the project list on the website. They want to see "sahara" there, not openstack/sahar distinct from sahara/extra | 13:21 |
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| ttx | which is why I'm still a bit hesitant to keep it completely off the governance repo | 13:21 |
| ttx | but then, the release repo definitely is the right place to start | 13:22 |
| dhellmann | if we add deliverables as a parallel construct to "projects" and just refer again to the repo names, that won't break any of the tools currently parsing the projects.yaml file and will give us the deliverable relationships | 13:22 |
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| dhellmann | the other option is to add a layer under "projects" to name each deliverable, but that's going to break some other tools | 13:22 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: thought about the first option but you end up with either a lot of one-repo deliverables, or tags that can't be applied at that layer | 13:23 |
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| dhellmann | either way we have a lot of one-repo deliverables, don't we? | 13:24 |
| ttx | anyway, we'll see about introducing it at governance layer and the cost/benefit there | 13:24 |
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| ttx | it's not really our call, but the TC's | 13:24 |
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| dhellmann | true | 13:25 |
| ttx | Let's move on | 13:25 |
| ttx | i'll try to mock up how it could look like to minimize tool disruption | 13:25 |
| dhellmann | ok | 13:26 |
| ttx | #topic Bug branches | 13:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug branches (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 13:26 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: i s | 13:26 |
| ttx | aah | 13:26 |
| * dhellmann hands ttx a fresh keyboard | 13:26 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: I suspect you were the one adding the note about those on the etherpad ? | 13:26 |
| dhellmann | yes, that's right | 13:26 |
| ttx | light yellow | 13:26 |
| ttx | could you summarize for the audience ? | 13:27 |
| dhellmann | the idea here is to have something that acts like a feature/ branch, where it's tested against master, but isn't called "feature" | 13:27 |
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| dhellmann | we had a case last week where it would have been convenient to release an oslo library not off of master, but we didn't want to create a stable branch for it yet | 13:27 |
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| dhellmann | bug branches would let us do that, cutting a branch from say 1.12.0 to release 1.12.1, requiring a backport but not pulling everything from master | 13:28 |
| dhellmann | IIRC, the case was oslo.db because master no longer includes the namespace package, so we'll be releasing 2.0.0 this week | 13:28 |
| ttx | to me it's more like a release branch (the same way we branch off rc1 before release) that we craete after-the-fact | 13:28 |
| ttx | my question is.. why did you need 1.12.1 ? | 13:28 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I wanted to be careful with the name to reflect that it is really meant for bug releases only | 13:29 |
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| dhellmann | there was a minor fix that was in master but it landed after the namespace removal | 13:29 |
| dhellmann | I think they ended up working around it, since we didn't get the branch stuff merged | 13:29 |
| dhellmann | the zuul change landed, but https://review.openstack.org/#/c/195724/ is needed, too | 13:29 |
| ttx | So, my take on it is that it's a slippery slope | 13:29 |
| ttx | you don't want to do that for minor things, only in exceptional cases. Otherwise you'll end up with everyone trying to backport a change without some other changes and asking for point releases outside of stable branches | 13:30 |
| dhellmann | I think, as we go on, this is something we're going to find ourselves wanting to do infrequently, but when we do want it, it will be more expedient than correctly reverting feature changes | 13:30 |
| dhellmann | yes, we would definitely want to make it clear this is for exceptional cases | 13:31 |
| dhellmann | dims, do you remember what the oslo.db bug fix was for? | 13:31 |
| ttx | I think it's a tool in our toolkit for libraries, where we encourage people to only use tagged things | 13:31 |
| dims | dhellmann: lookng up | 13:31 |
| ttx | For services (where we support consuming master branch directly) not so much | 13:31 |
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| dhellmann | yes, that feels appropriate | 13:31 |
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| dims | "Remove implicit RequestContext decoration" | 13:32 |
| dhellmann | we *may* want to use it for security fixes for server projects going to intermediate releases, but I think that's the only case | 13:32 |
| dims | Change-Id: I143f30c41e788c7aa9887c0e994f49ee55c94651 | 13:32 |
| ttx | I just fear that every security fix will trigger one of those now | 13:32 |
| dhellmann | ah, right, oslo.db was using oslo.context but didn't declare it's dependency on it | 13:32 |
| dims | dhellmann: y and neutron did not like some decoration that was happening in enginefacade i think | 13:33 |
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| ttx | i.e. you would end up having to do stable releases but also backport for current master release, in addition to master | 13:33 |
| dhellmann | ttx: well, we only have to approve them in cases where a non-backwards compatible change is in master | 13:33 |
| dhellmann | and that will come up much less often for server releases | 13:33 |
| ttx | so only when you bump X ? | 13:33 |
| dhellmann | only when bumping X would happen if you release from master, yes | 13:34 |
| dhellmann | we could have done all of this using a feature branch, but I thought the name "feature" was misleading enough to introduce a new branch type | 13:34 |
| ttx | I'd still keep that option for significant things. Security fixes, regressions in last release, crazy bug | 13:34 |
| ttx | that we can't wait to fix | 13:35 |
| dhellmann | right | 13:35 |
| ttx | basically things where there is time pressure and asking people to bump to X+1 in thaht timeframe is unreasonable | 13:35 |
| dhellmann | when we get to the point where we're releasing all the libs weekly, we'll have much less pressure to do one of these anyway | 13:35 |
| ttx | it's the same story as feature branches. It's a great tool to have, but a slippery slope if everything is developed this way | 13:36 |
| dhellmann | right | 13:36 |
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| ttx | which is why creating them goes through some oversight | 13:36 |
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| ttx | I definitely agree bug branches are a thing though, so we might want to document them | 13:36 |
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| ttx | (the feature branch chapter in project team guide is still due anyway) | 13:36 |
| dhellmann | ok, I will add a bug branch chapter | 13:37 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann document using bug branches in project team guide | 13:37 |
| ttx | anything else on that topic ? | 13:37 |
| dhellmann | none here | 13:38 |
| ttx | ok, next topic then | 13:38 |
| ttx | #topic New release model tags | 13:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New release model tags (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 13:38 | |
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| ttx | I started jolting notes on the maion etherpad and split them out to: | 13:38 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/new-release-tags | 13:38 |
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| ttx | Basically, with the recent changes I'm not sure the current release model tags help us or anyone | 13:39 |
| ttx | I listed the current taxonomy at the top | 13:39 |
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| ttx | Then the issues we have with it, which make them painful to use for us to determine anything | 13:39 |
| ttx | Let me summarize here | 13:40 |
| ttx | Currently we have: | 13:40 |
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| ttx | release:managed (missing some managed stuff, applied at repo level) | 13:40 |
| ttx | release:at-6mo-cycle-end (includes all services with a final $series release) | 13:40 |
| ttx | release:independent (means will do intermediary releases, or does not follow milestones) | 13:40 |
| ttx | release:has-stable-branches (means it has stable/$series) | 13:40 |
| ttx | Issues we have with that taxonomy: | 13:40 |
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| ttx | at-6mo-cycle-end does not include client libraries (basically it is used to also mean type:service) so it's misleading to our users | 13:41 |
| ttx | has-stable-branches is not applied to things that do stable/1.0 for example, so it's misleading too | 13:41 |
| ttx | has-stable-branches currently really means that there is a final release at end of cycle ... precisely what at-6mo-cycle-end should really mean. | 13:41 |
| ttx | independent may actually not be independent (difficult to understand when combined with others) | 13:41 |
| ttx | I'd like to come up with something that (1) conveys useful information to consumers in general and (2) that we can still use to derive tooling and policy | 13:42 |
| ttx | I think the current model fails at both now | 13:42 |
| dhellmann | yes, I agree it's not sufficient | 13:42 |
| ttx | release:managed is still pretty ok, it should just be applied at team level | 13:42 |
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| dhellmann | the new tag definitions look more useful, based on what we just did for this milestone | 13:43 |
| ttx | its meaning is clear and we have a use for it | 13:43 |
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| ttx | theer are basically 3 release models, and communicating which follows what is, I think relevant to all | 13:43 |
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| ttx | making the 3 release models a combination of other properties of which not all combinations are possible was, I think, a mistake | 13:44 |
| ttx | just the result of design by committee on that initial set of tags, and pressure from projects that wanted to collect all possible tags | 13:44 |
| dhellmann | we were also trying to be narrowly focused | 13:44 |
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| ttx | and we didn't have type:service/library | 13:45 |
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| ttx | so we encoded a bit of it there | 13:45 |
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| dhellmann | yes | 13:46 |
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| ttx | To answer your etherpad question... | 13:46 |
| dhellmann | I'd like, eventually, for the distinctions based on type to be less important | 13:46 |
| ttx | If the project intends to make a release, even if it never pushed a tag, it should use model-independent | 13:46 |
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| dhellmann | I corrected my verb tense to make that question more clear -- I'm thinking of things like tools directories or specs that are never "released" | 13:47 |
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| dhellmann | the second case is someone just not getting around to applying a tag in the governance repo | 13:48 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: I think the second case should be model-independent. But I see your point | 13:48 |
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| dhellmann | so we default to independent unless otherwise specified? | 13:49 |
| ttx | one chooses to actively have no release. So having a tag to describe that might be good | 13:49 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I think you are right | 13:49 |
| ttx | no tag should mean "we have no idea yet" | 13:49 |
| dhellmann | yeah, it's annoying to have to do that but from a browsability perspective I think we need it | 13:49 |
| ttx | also we can see with project repo additions that they often come with no tag | 13:50 |
| ttx | and that should therefore convey the "unknown" state or a non-affirmative default state (like "well, no idea yet") | 13:51 |
| dhellmann | yes, I was thinking of writing a little test thing to require some release indicator, and anything else we know we want at least one of | 13:51 |
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| ttx | no-release is affirming "we know this won't get released" | 13:51 |
| dhellmann | to do that, we would need a release:model-no-releases or soemthing | 13:51 |
| dhellmann | right | 13:51 |
| ttx | different from "well, we haven't decided yet" | 13:51 |
| dhellmann | that makes the list_projects_by_tags tool simpler, too | 13:51 |
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| ttx | it's also slightly disjoing from tags. The governance repo for example has tags, but isn't released | 13:52 |
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| ttx | ok, I think we are onto something on the model side, that leaves stable branches | 13:52 |
| ttx | I thihnk that tag has no valud if it's not attached to a stable branch policy | 13:53 |
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| ttx | otherwise you don't know what you get | 13:53 |
| ttx | so there is value for "follows-stable-branch-policy" | 13:53 |
| dhellmann | don't we have a policy on stable branches already? or is that just tribal knowledge, and not written down? | 13:53 |
| ttx | which is slightly clearer than "managed-by-stable-maint-official" | 13:54 |
| ttx | we have a policy, but it's enforced by the stable-maint team | 13:54 |
| ttx | there are rogue stable branches out there | 13:54 |
| ttx | things that the stable branch policy won't support for one reason or another | 13:54 |
| ttx | stable branch team I mean | 13:54 |
| dhellmann | so maybe we need stable:managed, stable:follows-policy, stable:independent | 13:54 |
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| ttx | I'd argue that the first two are the same | 13:55 |
| ttx | since the only thing the stable-maint-core team does is ensure that policy is followed | 13:55 |
| dhellmann | ah, ok then | 13:55 |
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| ttx | I just don't see the value of stable:indep I guess | 13:55 |
| ttx | "some" backports ? | 13:55 |
| dhellmann | I think it's useful to indicate that a project does backports, and may maintain more old versions than policy requires | 13:56 |
| dhellmann | that's the gnocchi case, right? | 13:56 |
| ttx | yes, the gnocchi case is that it follows a different policy | 13:57 |
| ttx | undocumented so I can't tell what I get there | 13:57 |
| ttx | I suspect, some backports. | 13:57 |
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| ttx | but can they break me ? no idea? Is config option addition fair game ? dunno. Can I change strings ? | 13:58 |
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| ttx | will my translation hold ? | 13:58 |
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| dhellmann | right, so if the idea is to provide more info to users, telling them "there's some sort of backport policy, but it's not standard" at least lets them know to talk to the dev team about it | 13:58 |
| ttx | ok, I can see that | 13:58 |
| dhellmann | or look for it to be documented elsewhere | 13:58 |
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| dhellmann | and maybe we end up with some new "policy" evolving out of projects copying what they do, and then they can document that in the governance repo eventually | 13:59 |
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| ttx | OK, will work on all that as soon as we manage to pass the current round of horizontal changes | 13:59 |
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| dhellmann | ++ | 13:59 |
| ttx | Last topic was Server versioning: mapping versions to series | 13:59 |
| ttx | but no time left | 14:00 |
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| ttx | it was about rediscussing how to achieve that | 14:00 |
| ttx | we can move that to #openstack-relmgr-office | 14:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | ok | 14:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 29 14:00:43 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2015/releaseteam.2015-06-29-13.01.html | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2015/releaseteam.2015-06-29-13.01.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2015/releaseteam.2015-06-29-13.01.log.html | 14:00 |
| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 29 14:01:00 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 14:01 |
| boris-42 | ping andreykurilin__ rvasilets_ | 14:01 |
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| andreykurilin__ | зщтп | 14:01 |
| andreykurilin__ | pong | 14:01 |
| andreykurilin__ | :) | 14:01 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: you are on holidays no? | 14:02 |
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| andreykurilin__ | boris-42: yes, but I'm online now:) | 14:02 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: ping | 14:02 |
| rakhmerov | hi | 14:02 |
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| kun_huang | :) | 14:02 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: hi hi | 14:03 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: ping | 14:03 |
| stpierre | pong | 14:03 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: hi there | 14:03 |
| kun_huang | actually fixtures upgrades block us again... | 14:03 |
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| boris-42 | kun_huang: hm? | 14:03 |
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| kun_huang | http://logs.openstack.org/32/193432/17/check/gate-rally-python26/5ec974d/console.html | 14:03 |
| kun_huang | block unit test | 14:03 |
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| andreykurilin__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196623/ | 14:04 |
| kun_huang | there are some hidden bugs in rally | 14:04 |
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| boris-42 | kun_huang: hm | 14:04 |
| andreykurilin__ | kun_huang: what kind of bugs? | 14:04 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196493/ | 14:04 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: my patch works well | 14:04 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: except trivial bug in pep | 14:05 |
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| kun_huang | https://github.com/openstack/rally/blob/master/tests/unit/plugins/openstack/scenarios/glance/test_utils.py#L50 | 14:05 |
| kun_huang | this line | 14:05 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: and? | 14:06 |
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| boris-42 | kun_huang: it doesn't fail for me.. | 14:06 |
| kun_huang | going into your tox env, pip install fixtures --upgrade, back to normal env | 14:07 |
| kun_huang | run tox -e py26, failed | 14:07 |
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| kun_huang | fixtures upgraded today... | 14:07 |
| kun_huang | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196086/ | 14:07 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: omh | 14:08 |
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| boris-42 | kun_huang: omg | 14:08 |
| kun_huang | the latest one, failed again | 14:08 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: so many upgrades... | 14:08 |
| kun_huang | the failed two test cases both have "self.get_fm.cleanUp()" | 14:08 |
| kun_huang | I don't understand on this ... | 14:08 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: that one seems like a bug | 14:09 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: just need to remove that line | 14:09 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: that you specified | 14:10 |
| kun_huang | I'm not sure for that line | 14:10 |
| kun_huang | are you sure for that? | 14:10 |
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| boris-42 | kun_huang: nope | 14:11 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: seems like kiran is working on it | 14:12 |
| * boris-42 kun_huang: https://bugs.launchpad.net/rally/+bug/1469644 | 14:12 | |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1469644 in Rally "Rally jenkins fails due to fixtures 1.3.0" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Kiran (rkiran) | 14:12 |
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| andreykurilin__ | boris-42: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196623/ | 14:12 |
| andreykurilin__ | boris-42: we can't merge such fix:( | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | we two found it in my afternoon | 14:13 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: that one is not a proper fix | 14:13 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: ok I will investigate it today | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | btw, removing that line can't fix this | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | Traceback (most recent call last): | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | File "tests/unit/plugins/openstack/scenarios/nova/test_utils.py", line 58, in test_failed_server_status | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | server_manager.create("fails", "1", "2")) | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | File "/Users/Gareth/celtics/rally/.tox/py27/lib/python2.7/site-packages/testtools/testcase.py", line 422, in assertRaises | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | self.assertThat(our_callable, matcher) | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | File "/Users/Gareth/celtics/rally/.tox/py27/lib/python2.7/site-packages/testtools/testcase.py", line 435, in assertThat | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | raise mismatch_error | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | testtools.matchers._impl.MismatchError: <MagicMock name='get_from_manager()' id='4466724112'> returned <MagicMock name='get_from_manager()()' id='4466814096'> | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | Ran 1661 tests in 21.935s (-0.247s) | 14:13 |
| boris-42 | rakhmerov: thanks for fixing mistral client | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | FAILED (id=46, failures=2) | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | error: testr failed (1) | 14:13 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: please | 14:13 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: use paste | 14:13 |
| kun_huang | okay :) | 14:14 |
| rakhmerov | boris-42, np. My apologies again for the mess.. | 14:14 |
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| boris-42 | so okay we will fix this | 14:15 |
| boris-42 | let's move to next topics | 14:15 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Import Optimization | 14:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Import Optimization (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 14:15 | |
| boris-42 | I almost finished the patch that optimizes imports | 14:16 |
| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196493/ | 14:16 |
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| boris-42 | so it just imports plugins if they are required | 14:17 |
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| boris-42 | as a result I saw that it's not enough to fix the issue and it takes about 300ms to start Rally | 14:17 |
| kun_huang | seems nice | 14:17 |
| boris-42 | another big issue is sqlalchemy that starts about 80ms | 14:17 |
| boris-42 | so I will try to hack more and reduce time at least to 200ms | 14:17 |
| boris-42 | and hope that that will be enough to do live bash completition | 14:18 |
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| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: stpierre ^ | 14:19 |
| andreykurilin__ | boris-42: "+58, -24" is quite small change for you:) | 14:20 |
| stpierre | nice | 14:20 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: LOL | 14:21 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: I didn't finished it | 14:21 |
| andreykurilin__ | :D | 14:21 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: I will need one more small change to +2500 -25000 | 14:21 |
| boris-42 | =) | 14:21 |
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| boris-42 | albertw: hi there | 14:21 |
| albertw | hi | 14:21 |
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| boris-42 | albertw: it's our regular weekly meeting | 14:21 |
| boris-42 | albertw: btw gates are against broken with something *new* released | 14:22 |
| boris-42 | albertw: so no worries about -1 from Jenkins =( | 14:22 |
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| albertw | boris-42: thanks. I was wondering why things were failing. | 14:23 |
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| boris-42 | albertw: last two weeks was hell for us | 14:23 |
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| andreykurilin__ | openstack is too stable for our gates :( | 14:23 |
| boris-42 | albertw: neutron 2 times, heat, mistral, fixtures.. | 14:23 |
| andreykurilin__ | boris-42: you worgot ceilometer | 14:24 |
| andreykurilin__ | forgot | 14:24 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: ah yep | 14:24 |
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| boris-42 | albertw: ^ so we can't do actually anything with this except fix/wait_for_fixes | 14:24 |
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| boris-42 | so okay | 14:26 |
| boris-42 | #topic Open Disucssion | 14:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Disucssion (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 14:26 | |
| boris-42 | Actually, as msdubov left team | 14:26 |
| boris-42 | we should find somebody who is able to do Agenda for each meeting | 14:27 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: andreykurilin__ rvasilets_ ^ | 14:27 |
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| boris-42 | so everybody will be able to attend to meeting | 14:28 |
| stpierre | this meeting is at the start of my day, so i vote for someone else so that i don't have to worry about it friday afternoon before leaving for the weekend. | 14:28 |
| stpierre | if neither andrey or roman can do it, of course i'm happy to step in | 14:28 |
| andreykurilin__ | boris-42: do we have agenda at mailing-list ? | 14:29 |
| andreykurilin__ | *only at mailint-list | 14:29 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: nope | 14:29 |
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| rvasilets_ | if you show me how to do this | 14:29 |
| rvasilets_ | I'll try | 14:30 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: ok | 14:30 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: so it's simple https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally we should fix this page | 14:30 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: to add somewhere whole paragraph about meetings agenda | 14:30 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: then we should create a sepcial wiki page for that | 14:31 |
| boris-42 | rakhmerov: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Rally | 14:31 |
| boris-42 | rakhmerov: sorry | 14:31 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: ^ | 14:31 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: there is already | 14:32 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: so the idea is to collect all topics that we should disucss | 14:32 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: regularly and write them there | 14:32 |
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| andreykurilin__ | it's a bit outdated:D | 14:32 |
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| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: yep | 14:32 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: but we need to keep full history | 14:32 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: with links to the logs | 14:33 |
| andreykurilin__ | oh... | 14:33 |
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| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: yep | 14:33 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: are you ready ?) | 14:33 |
| rvasilets_ | you are talking about this page ? | 14:33 |
| rvasilets_ | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally#Updates | 14:33 |
| boris-42 | rakhmerov: nope | 14:34 |
| andreykurilin__ | rvasilets_: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Rally | 14:34 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: nope | 14:34 |
| boris-42 | rakhmerov: sorry one more time | 14:34 |
| rvasilets_ | I think it would be better to swap holder of agenda sometimes. Because as I understand its boring) | 14:35 |
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| boris-42 | rvasilets_: yep that sounds good | 14:36 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: e.g. everybody can do it 2 weeks | 14:36 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets_: and change with next | 14:36 |
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| rvasilets_ | ok I'll start | 14:37 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: stpierre kun_huang ^ | 14:37 |
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| stpierre | ok, sounds good | 14:37 |
| andreykurilin__ | ok, sound reasonable | 14:37 |
| rvasilets_ | you will show me how to do it right in private messages) | 14:37 |
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| kun_huang | no problem :) | 14:38 |
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| boris-42 | okay nice | 14:39 |
| boris-42 | so we will make a schedule and we will keep agends/logs up to date | 14:39 |
| boris-42 | and make this meeting more useful | 14:40 |
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| boris-42 | do we have something to discuss? | 14:40 |
| andreykurilin__ | no :( | 14:41 |
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| kun_huang | boris-42: there is a set of patches about sahara/swift | 14:41 |
| kun_huang | need review | 14:41 |
| kun_huang | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177732/ | 14:41 |
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| andreykurilin__ | boris-42: what about adding regular topic "stuck reviews"? | 14:42 |
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| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: ya that sounds good | 14:43 |
| boris-42 | kun_huang: yep yep we have issues with review throughput... | 14:43 |
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| kairat_kushaev | andreykurilin__: How about heat issues to analyze=) | 14:43 |
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| boris-42 | kun_huang: ? | 14:44 |
| boris-42 | kairat_kushaev: ? ) | 14:44 |
| kun_huang | I'm working on review work now | 14:45 |
| kairat_kushaev | boris-42: I mean when can we proceed to analyze why heat is failing | 14:45 |
| kun_huang | but I don't know sahara details | 14:45 |
| andreykurilin__ | kairat_kushaev: heh. today is a holiday in Ukraine. non-working day. :P | 14:45 |
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| kairat_kushaev | andreykurilin__: OK=) | 14:45 |
| boris-42 | kairat_kushaev: heh I really don't know why it started failing... | 14:45 |
| kairat_kushaev | boris-42: We did some investigation but I need to understand what nova-network is doing at some moment. Anyway I will pink Andrey this week | 14:46 |
| andreykurilin__ | boris-42, kairat_kushaev: Maybe we can move heat job from nova-network to neutron? | 14:47 |
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| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: yep that seems like a good idea | 14:47 |
| kairat_kushaev | boris-42: I have a second question that was raised during review of some patches | 14:47 |
| boris-42 | kairat_kushaev: ? | 14:47 |
| andreykurilin__ | And I'll try to debug nova-network this week | 14:47 |
| kairat_kushaev | andreykurilin__: seems reasonable | 14:47 |
| kairat_kushaev | boris-42: OS is updating very fast. So what versions we should support in rally | 14:48 |
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| andreykurilin__ | kairat_kushaev: all | 14:48 |
| andreykurilin__ | :( | 14:48 |
| andreykurilin__ | * as much as it possible | 14:48 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: +2 | 14:49 |
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| stpierre | can we reduce that to "all versions supported by upstream"? | 14:49 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: nope | 14:49 |
| stpierre | i don't feel like we should particularly care if rally works against grizzly (it doesn't) | 14:49 |
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| boris-42 | stpierre: so there is people that use grizzly and so on.. | 14:49 |
| andreykurilin__ | and if you install rally in virtual env, it'll work with grizzly | 14:50 |
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| andreykurilin__ | if we create stable branches(stable/icehouse, stable/juno and etc), we will add a lot of extra stuff(backporting patches) | 14:51 |
| stpierre | i certainly agree that's a bad approach | 14:51 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: so let's try to imporve framework | 14:52 |
| stpierre | but we don't have the CI infrastructure for making sure that rally works on older versions, and i think it's foolhardy to pretend that we can make our scenarios work for everything | 14:52 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: so we will be able to support old versions in more transparent way | 14:52 |
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| boris-42 | stpierre: so better framework / better ci | 14:52 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: can help us | 14:52 |
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| stpierre | it can help us, but scope that expands without bound is not possible to satisfy. | 14:53 |
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| stpierre | i.e., if someone filed a bug against a scenario that doesn't work on Diablo, should we care? | 14:53 |
| stpierre | (no.) | 14:53 |
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| boris-42 | stpierre: if it is possible to fix, why not?) | 14:53 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: in any case by trying to support older version we are facing real production issues | 14:54 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: knowing such issues allows us to make better framework | 14:54 |
| stpierre | a) we've got better things to do than set up diablo openstack to test the fix; b) we have no diablo CI resources, so we can't ensure that it stays fixed; c) that's going to *greatly* overcomplicate the code in the future because the APIs have changed significantly since older versions | 14:54 |
| kairat_kushaev | +1 | 14:54 |
| stpierre | kairat_kushaev and i ran into an issue just last week where we've got probably two dozen extra lines of hacky code in one of the heat scenarios because kilo heat is good and juno heat is terrible | 14:55 |
| stpierre | and that's *juno* | 14:55 |
| stpierre | ("good" might be overstating it, but you get the idea) | 14:55 |
| kairat_kushaev | =) | 14:55 |
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| taturn | hi | 14:55 |
| taturn | anyone? | 14:56 |
| andreykurilin__ | taturn: hi | 14:56 |
| taturn | so | 14:56 |
| stpierre | i think we need to limit ourselves to what we can realistically test | 14:56 |
| boris-42 | taturn: hi | 14:56 |
| taturn | cool | 14:56 |
| taturn | i am new here | 14:56 |
| boris-42 | taturn: so welcome=) | 14:57 |
| taturn | and the bad thing for me is i am not good at english | 14:57 |
| taturn | thx | 14:57 |
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| taturn | by the way i am from china | 14:57 |
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| kairat_kushaev | Perhaps we need some minimal requirements | 14:57 |
| stpierre | right now, that means four versions, which IMO is more than enough to keep us very busy | 14:58 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: agree with this | 14:58 |
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| boris-42 | stpierre: in any case our framework sux | 14:58 |
| andreykurilin__ | stpierre: simple example. Mirantis just released mos-6.1, which is "kilo", so most of mirantis customers use juno today and will start upgrading to "liberty" in near future. I suppose there is a lot of such examples | 14:58 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: to have scenarios for specific versions.. | 14:58 |
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| andreykurilin__ | *will start upgrading to kilo | 14:58 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin__: and we have customers that use grizlly | 14:59 |
| boris-42 | LOL | 14:59 |
| stpierre | boris-42: yeah, that will help | 14:59 |
| stpierre | most of our customers are on grizzly | 14:59 |
| boris-42 | stpierre: so we need to keep grizzly wokring | 14:59 |
| stpierre | no, we really don't | 14:59 |
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| boris-42 | stpierre: =) | 14:59 |
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| boris-42 | so in any case | 14:59 |
| boris-42 | we should finish | 14:59 |
| taturn | lol | 14:59 |
| boris-42 | this meeting | 14:59 |
| stpierre | even if we just test what's currently supported, we're going to be testing four versions (and troubleshooting icehouse devstack issues, which is terrible enough) | 15:00 |
| taturn | i donot know what u r saying | 15:00 |
| taturn | lol | 15:00 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 29 15:00:17 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-06-29-14.01.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-06-29-14.01.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-06-29-14.01.log.html | 15:00 |
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| andreykurilin__ | taturn: let's move to #openstack-rally chat | 15:01 |
| taturn | ok | 15:01 |
| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 29 15:01:19 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:01 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 15:01 |
| anteaya | anyone here for the third party meeting? | 15:01 |
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| patrickeast | o/ | 15:01 |
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| lennyb | Hi | 15:01 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 15:02 |
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| ctlaugh_ | o/ | 15:02 |
| eantyshev | o/ | 15:02 |
| anteaya | hello | 15:02 |
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| anteaya | thanks to asselin for charing last weeks meeting | 15:03 |
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| anteaya | reminder that asselin's common-ci sprint is coming up July 8 & 9 | 15:03 |
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| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#OpenStack_Common-CI_Solution | 15:03 |
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| anteaya | does anyone have anything they wish to discuss at today's third party meeting? | 15:04 |
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| taturn | 0o0 | 15:04 |
| anteaya | taturn: you are in a meeting channel | 15:05 |
| anteaya | taturn: if you wish to participate in the third party meeting you are welcome, but please contribute something of use | 15:05 |
| anteaya | taturn: the general discussion channel is #openstack-dev | 15:05 |
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| taturn | sorry i am new here | 15:06 |
| taturn | let me use translater to know what u said i am a chinese | 15:06 |
| taturn | lol | 15:06 |
| anteaya | taturn: yeah I saw that in the rally meeting | 15:06 |
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| anteaya | taturn: I gave you some guidance | 15:06 |
| anteaya | so does anyone have anything pertient to share at today's meeting | 15:07 |
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| anteaya | so if noone has anything of any importance to share at today's third party meeting | 15:08 |
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| lennyb | not me | 15:08 |
| anteaya | how about we find more productive uses of our time? | 15:08 |
| anteaya | hi lennyb, thanks | 15:08 |
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| eantyshev | our Zuul occasionally falls into busyloops of a kind: http://paste.openstack.org/show/325044/ | 15:08 |
| eantyshev | which happens after reconfiguration | 15:09 |
| anteaya | does it ever break out of the loop? | 15:09 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: Not until zuul-server restarted | 15:09 |
| anteaya | so after you reconfigure zuul you need to restart it? | 15:10 |
| lennyb | eantyshev: are you using the latest upstream? | 15:10 |
| eantyshev | sometimes, yes | 15:10 |
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| patrickeast | i saw that happen to mine on friday night, filled up like 70GB of log file with that error :( | 15:10 |
| anteaya | patrickeast: was a zuul restart the solution? | 15:10 |
| patrickeast | i did the same thing, killed zuul, pulled all the latest changes and restarted | 15:10 |
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| patrickeast | unsure if there was an update that fixed it, but it went away | 15:11 |
| eantyshev | lennyb: sure | 15:11 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: when did you first notice this behaviour? | 15:11 |
| lennyb | yantyshev: may it be related to the late patches that were added. there was some fix related to the loop ( I even think it was yours ) | 15:12 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: that happened last Thursday at 3pm | 15:13 |
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| anteaya | eantyshev: so this is recent behaviour then | 15:13 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: next time you restart zuul can you be sure to pull the most recent patches | 15:13 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: and if the looping behaviour persists are you willing to file a bug against zuul? | 15:14 |
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| anteaya | #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/325044/ | 15:14 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: it dissapears every time after restart | 15:14 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: right, I'm asking if you are willing to pull the latest patches and evaluate if a patchset fixes the situation | 15:15 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: and if it doesn't, if you are willing to file a bug against zuul | 15:15 |
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| anteaya | eantyshev: are you willing to file a bug against zuul if you keep seeing this? | 15:16 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: Zuul is up-to-date, AFAIU, head last updated on Jun12 (Support external cross-project dependencies in ui). And I'd rather investigate it myself, though | 15:16 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: oh okay | 15:16 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: can you let us know if you find anything? | 15:17 |
| patrickeast | why not file a bug and assign it to yourself? | 15:17 |
| anteaya | a bug report allows others to track progress | 15:17 |
| anteaya | patrickeast: good point | 15:17 |
| anteaya | and you can update teh bug status as you work on it | 15:17 |
| eantyshev | then I'll make this a bug | 15:17 |
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| anteaya | it is a workflow which is considered friendlier in an open source spac | 15:18 |
| anteaya | thanks eantyshev | 15:18 |
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| anteaya | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/project/679 | 15:18 |
| anteaya | is the storyboard link for zuul | 15:18 |
| anteaya | anything more on this topic? | 15:18 |
| eantyshev | patrickeast: did you experienced busyloops too? can you share the piece of your debug logs? | 15:19 |
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| patrickeast | eantyshev: yea i’ll go dig up the links | 15:20 |
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| anteaya | does anyone have any other topic to discuss? | 15:21 |
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| patrickeast | eantyshev: http://paste.openstack.org/show/321511/ | 15:21 |
| patrickeast | same callstack, different patchset | 15:22 |
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| ociuhandu | hi all, sorry for being late | 15:22 |
| anteaya | #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/321511/ | 15:22 |
| anteaya | ociuhandu: np | 15:22 |
| ociuhandu | anteaya: I’ve seen a quite long thread discussing about third-party CI voting rights | 15:22 |
| anteaya | ociuhandu: do you have anything you wish to discuss today? | 15:22 |
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| anteaya | ociuhandu: yes the discussion is taking place on the mailing list | 15:22 |
| anteaya | and voting isn't a right, it is at best a permission | 15:23 |
| eantyshev | patrickeast: thanks! | 15:23 |
| ociuhandu | and it seems that the topic heads towards non-voting CIs | 15:23 |
| anteaya | the decision to allow any ci voting permissions lies with the ptl of the project in question | 15:23 |
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| anteaya | individual projects can make the decision that works best for their project | 15:23 |
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| anteaya | I don't expect openstack wide consensous on this | 15:24 |
| anteaya | the ability to grant permissions on cis lies with the ptl of the project in question | 15:24 |
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| ociuhandu | anteaya: from what I have seen it seems that though this started from one project it’s now involving multiple projects and they seem to lean towards the same direction | 15:25 |
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| anteaya | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/067992.html | 15:26 |
| anteaya | ociuhandu: okay | 15:26 |
| ociuhandu | but i see your point, so we’ll have to discuss them with the individual project ptls | 15:26 |
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| anteaya | did you have any point you wanted to make about that? | 15:26 |
| anteaya | yes | 15:26 |
| anteaya | I have no say in what the decision is | 15:26 |
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| anteaya | I encourage you to participate in the thread if you have a perspective you wish to ensure others know about | 15:27 |
| ociuhandu | well, as a general idea i feel that telling now any third-party that we’ll revoke any kind of voting rights kind of defeats the purpose of the CI requirements in the first place | 15:27 |
| anteaya | you are welcome to have that opinion | 15:28 |
| ociuhandu | as in, you have to have a reliable CI but we don’t let you say if a patch is good or not | 15:28 |
| krtaylor | ociuhandu, I disagree, comments are useful, if they are reliable | 15:28 |
| anteaya | and I do agree that it is frustrating from the perspective of teh ci operators | 15:28 |
| anteaya | as the message seems to keep changing | 15:28 |
| ociuhandu | (since anyway everyone is complaining about the noise the CIs add to the commenting section) | 15:28 |
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| anteaya | however the infra message is clear, if you have a gerrit ci account, you are expected to adheare to infra requirements | 15:29 |
| anteaya | all else is up to the individual projects | 15:29 |
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| wznoinsk | hi all | 15:29 |
| ociuhandu | ok, thanks | 15:29 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: hello | 15:29 |
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| anteaya | ociuhandu: welcome, thanks for bringing it up | 15:29 |
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| anteaya | ociuhandu: I encourage you to comment on the mailing list thread, and discuss it with the project you are testing | 15:30 |
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| anteaya | anything more on this topic? | 15:30 |
| wznoinsk | ociuhandu: I think it came down with recent changes to not to ahve integrated releases | 15:31 |
| ociuhandu | anteaya: will do, just wanted to get a deeper understanding on this from the infra perspective | 15:31 |
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| anteaya | ociuhandu: sure, the infra perspective is about gerrit accounts, voting permissions and many other decisions are up to the projects | 15:31 |
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| anteaya | does anyone have anything else they wish to discuss today? | 15:32 |
| wznoinsk | in short, cores will be looking at CIs results less by the looks of things | 15:32 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: I don't understand either of your last two statements | 15:33 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: can you try again to express your point? | 15:33 |
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| anteaya | or shall we move on? | 15:35 |
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| * anteaya is uncertain if waiting is a worthy use of time | 15:35 | |
| anteaya | I'm not trying to dismiss what you said wznoinsk, I'm trying to understand it | 15:35 |
| wznoinsk | anteaya: sure, when there was any enforcing of the features in releases, cores/ptls were interested in the tests CI provide as a wider testing ground for features, now when we report rather than enforce and a lot of neutron code went out of tree, cores/ptl are not directly looking at whether they work or not | 15:36 |
| anteaya | oh | 15:36 |
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| anteaya | well to be honest it never was the job of the core reviewers to review the ci jobs | 15:36 |
| wznoinsk | to me CIs are becoming the help to features devs only | 15:36 |
| anteaya | it was and is the responbility of the ci/driver maintainer | 15:37 |
| anteaya | well becoming/is yes | 15:37 |
| wznoinsk | anteaya: not saying it was, but as for features that were promised in a release it was a good testing ground | 15:37 |
| anteaya | it just is taking some folks a while to realize that | 15:37 |
| anteaya | no it was | 15:37 |
| anteaya | I am saying it was and is | 15:37 |
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| anteaya | the ci results are meant for the consumption of the driver maintainer | 15:38 |
| krtaylor | except in the case of infra ci | 15:38 |
| anteaya | and others just look to see if the driver maintainer is paying attention or not | 15:39 |
| wznoinsk | the help to devs yes, I never said cores job was to look at the CI results, it was more of an additional info | 15:39 |
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| anteaya | krtaylor: no, especially in the case of infra ci | 15:39 |
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| anteaya | wznoinsk: right | 15:39 |
| anteaya | the addtional info being wether the driver maintainer was paying attention or not | 15:40 |
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| anteaya | anything more here? | 15:40 |
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| wznoinsk | I sort of don't like the fact the more loose rights we have now (big tent, 4 OPENs etc) the less we pay attention to proper testing of all of that... I'm not saying cores/ptls should be looking after it tho | 15:40 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: I don't like it either | 15:41 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: I am out of suggestions for what to do about it though | 15:41 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: if you have any contructive thoughts I am looking for suggestions | 15:41 |
| wznoinsk | ideally some sort of certified CI badge would be good to have | 15:41 |
| anteaya | I'm not certifying anything | 15:42 |
| wznoinsk | some CI ops are interest-less, some are looking after well, but may stop doing so if there's no real value it in anymore - that would hurt openstack testing | 15:42 |
| anteaya | I have opinions on the use of the word certified | 15:43 |
| anteaya | here is a thread from last year on the topic in case you missed it | 15:43 |
| anteaya | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-June/036933.html | 15:43 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: I agree | 15:43 |
| anteaya | values are important | 15:43 |
| ttx | not necessarily "certified" but at least recognized as good. Some tag that says "CI actually means something here" could be interesting | 15:43 |
| ttx | difficult to define though | 15:44 |
| anteaya | and experiencing a lack of values is hard to give or recieve guidance | 15:44 |
| wznoinsk | anteaya: well, maybe "powered by Openstack CI suite" could be for CIs using downstream-puppet when you have it done with proper self-diagnosis | 15:44 |
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| wznoinsk | anteaya: only throwing thoughts here... | 15:44 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: sure | 15:44 |
| anteaya | brainstorming is good | 15:44 |
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| anteaya | I have nothing to offer, unfortunately, though I wish I did | 15:44 |
| anteaya | but I definitely feel a lack of values | 15:45 |
| anteaya | there used to be values | 15:45 |
| anteaya | and I can't find them today | 15:45 |
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| anteaya | not sure what to do about that | 15:45 |
| wznoinsk | ttx: it is difficult, once we agree on who values from CIs (and these are devs and components vendors imho only atm) we would make the certification/recognition right | 15:45 |
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| * anteaya reiterates she has opinions on the use of the word certified | 15:46 | |
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| anteaya | but identifying what we value | 15:46 |
| anteaya | or what is valued | 15:46 |
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| anteaya | and recognizing when that value is respecting | 15:46 |
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| anteaya | I support that | 15:47 |
| anteaya | as well as all those words | 15:47 |
| anteaya | values, recogniztion and respect | 15:47 |
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| wznoinsk | on the other hand, if infra plans to extend their testing, why not to do it using community (3rd party ci)? | 15:47 |
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| anteaya | if infra plans to extend their testing | 15:48 |
| anteaya | does infra plan to extend their testing? | 15:48 |
| anteaya | if so this is news to me | 15:48 |
| anteaya | what plans does infra have | 15:48 |
| anteaya | and what tests are being extended | 15:48 |
| anteaya | and how? | 15:48 |
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| anteaya | wznoinsk: what are you reading or referencing that leads you to these conclusions? | 15:49 |
| wznoinsk | there were couple of talks on the summit about testing, some ppl wanted to have more testing, I don't know whether that's in projects plan (to extend by additional distro testing ie.) which would be eventually thrown at infra | 15:49 |
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| anteaya | do the summit sessions have names? | 15:50 |
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| anteaya | distro testing? | 15:50 |
| anteaya | that is a new one for me | 15:50 |
| asselin_ | o/ | 15:50 |
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| anteaya | we are discussing packaging repos, that were hoped to be shared by different distros and are looking less likely now | 15:50 |
| anteaya | hi asselin_ | 15:50 |
| anteaya | we have talks every summit about testing | 15:51 |
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| anteaya | since we have a whole project dedicated to the topic, the qa project | 15:51 |
| anteaya | I'm light on details on how this is affecting infra | 15:51 |
| anteaya | I'm not saying its not, I'm saying I don't have the same perspective you have | 15:52 |
| anteaya | and need some detail or references to understand | 15:52 |
| anteaya | and right now I have none | 15:52 |
| wznoinsk | anteaya: ok, my 'if infra' was 'in case infra' rather than 'because infra wants to increase testing' | 15:52 |
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| anteaya | well infra is consuming the common-ci solution | 15:52 |
| anteaya | as fast as new modules are merged | 15:53 |
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| anteaya | so in terms of infra should use the common-ci solution | 15:53 |
| anteaya | we are | 15:53 |
| asselin_ | yes! :) | 15:53 |
| anteaya | as soon as there is anything to consume | 15:53 |
| anteaya | asselin_: thanks for all your hard work! | 15:53 |
| anteaya | so we seem to be in a close to wrap up place | 15:54 |
| anteaya | I'll just remind folks that when discussing topics | 15:54 |
| anteaya | it is really helpful to not assume anyone else knows the details of what you are talking about | 15:54 |
| anteaya | so bringing links with you is really helpful | 15:54 |
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| anteaya | etherpads, mailing list threads, summit session topics, anything | 15:55 |
| anteaya | please bring the link so that others, who may be interested in understanding what you are trying to say, can follow along | 15:55 |
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| anteaya | anything more for today before we wrap up? | 15:55 |
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| asselin_ | re common-ci solution. I'll request zuul patches to merge today | 15:56 |
| anteaya | asselin_: wonderful | 15:56 |
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| asselin_ | so next, requesting reviews on the nodepool patches | 15:56 |
| anteaya | have you links so taht those present can review quickly if they wish | 15:56 |
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| asselin_ | looking for link now | 15:57 |
| anteaya | thanks | 15:58 |
| asselin_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188325/ | 15:58 |
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| asselin_ | didn't find the others....but ping we later if you're interested.... | 15:58 |
| anteaya | sure | 15:58 |
| anteaya | thank you asselin_ | 15:58 |
| anteaya | thanks all for your attendance and participation today | 15:58 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 15:59 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 29 15:59:04 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-06-29-15.01.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-06-29-15.01.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-06-29-15.01.log.html | 15:59 |
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| rakhmerov | #startmeeting Mistral | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 29 16:00:47 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rakhmerov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'mistral' | 16:00 |
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| rakhmerov | anyone here? | 16:03 |
| rakhmerov | m4dcoder? | 16:03 |
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| devkulkarni | hi rakhmerov | 16:03 |
| rakhmerov | hi | 16:03 |
| rakhmerov | how are you? | 16:03 |
| ruhe | o/ | 16:03 |
| devkulkarni | doing fine | 16:03 |
| xylan_kong | rakhmerov: hi | 16:03 |
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| rakhmerov | xylan_kong, hi | 16:03 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, let's start the meeting | 16:04 |
| xylan_kong | ok | 16:04 |
| rakhmerov | the agenda is at: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MistralAgenda | 16:04 |
| rakhmerov | #topic Review action items | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review action items (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:04 | |
| rakhmerov | there was just one AI | 16:05 |
| rakhmerov | NikolayM: discuss yaql 1.0 with Murano team | 16:05 |
| rakhmerov | NikilayM, you're here? | 16:05 |
| xylan_kong | didn't met him today | 16:05 |
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| rakhmerov | ruhe, do you happen to know where we are going to have YAQL 1.0 in global requirements? | 16:06 |
| rakhmerov | ...where -> when ... | 16:06 |
| ruhe | rakhmerov: JFYI the main driver of yaql 1.0 adoption in Murano, Stan Lagun, is currently on a long sick leave, so there was not much progress in this area recently in Murano | 16:06 |
| rakhmerov | ooh, ok | 16:06 |
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| rakhmerov | so we'll keep this AI active | 16:07 |
| ruhe | yeah. Murano team keeps this item as a must have in Liberty | 16:07 |
| rakhmerov | #action NikolayM: talk to Stan Lagun about YAQL 1.0 inclusion into global requirements | 16:07 |
| rakhmerov | ruhe, ok, got it | 16:07 |
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| rakhmerov | that's good | 16:07 |
| rakhmerov | we just wanted to switch to it asap because it's kind of a part of Mistral DSL from a user perspective | 16:08 |
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| rakhmerov | but that's ok | 16:08 |
| rakhmerov | #topic Current status (progress, issues, roadblocks, further plans) | 16:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Current status (progress, issues, roadblocks, further plans) (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:08 | |
| rakhmerov | let's quickly report our statuses, as usually | 16:08 |
| xylan_kong | my status | 16:09 |
| xylan_kong | * get rid of openstack/common package, to comply with the whole upstream behavior | 16:09 |
| xylan_kong | * fix some bugs and review work | 16:09 |
| xylan_kong | * write a proposal for removing utils.wf_trace module | 16:09 |
| rakhmerov | xylan_kong, is that openstack/common task considered completed? | 16:10 |
| xylan_kong | yes, sure | 16:10 |
| rakhmerov | ok, perfect | 16:10 |
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| rakhmerov | as far as that wf_trace module, what's wrong with it? | 16:10 |
| rakhmerov | why do you want to replace it? | 16:10 |
| rakhmerov | we might have discussed it with you a while ago | 16:11 |
| xylan_kong | it's ok :-) just a little redundant IMO | 16:11 |
| rakhmerov | I don't remember though | 16:11 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, so when are you planning to come up with your proposal? | 16:11 |
| xylan_kong | just a little weird we add a module to implement a feature that oslo.log has | 16:11 |
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| rakhmerov | #action xylan_kong: proposal to replace utils.wf_trace with oslo.log | 16:12 |
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| xylan_kong | ok | 16:12 |
| rakhmerov | ok, I think it's more or less clear, just want to see some details on that | 16:12 |
| rakhmerov | my status: implemented "Workflow variables" and released Liberty 1 last week, also discussed and reviewed a bunch of changes with the team | 16:12 |
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| rakhmerov | I made a mistake with client versioning on Friday so had to fix it today | 16:13 |
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| rakhmerov | spent a lot of time on that | 16:13 |
| devkulkarni | +1 rakhmerov | 16:13 |
| xylan_kong | yeah, i notice that, nice work | 16:13 |
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| rakhmerov | nice work?? you kidding? :) I actually deserve a serious punishment :) | 16:14 |
| xylan_kong | we correct it anyway | 16:14 |
| rakhmerov | anyway, it's ok now | 16:14 |
| xylan_kong | :-) | 16:14 |
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| rakhmerov | devkulkarni: btw, sorry that I can't catch you in our IRC channel | 16:15 |
| devkulkarni | rakhmerov: :) is the new client released to global-requirements? | 16:15 |
| rakhmerov | you write usually when I'm asleep ) | 16:15 |
| rakhmerov | devkulkarni: we need to fix and merge this patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/195035/ | 16:15 |
| rakhmerov | hoping it'll be done very soon | 16:15 |
| devkulkarni | rakhmerov: no worries.. I am in US Central | 16:15 |
| rakhmerov | 1-2 days | 16:15 |
| rakhmerov | yeah, I guess I'm 12 hours ahead of you ) | 16:16 |
| devkulkarni | rakhmerov: ok, will keep an eye out on it | 16:16 |
| rakhmerov | devkulkarni: so do you have a problem because of a Mistral client versioning as well? | 16:16 |
| rakhmerov | you're working on solum, right? | 16:16 |
| devkulkarni | rakhmerov: I guess so.. I had added an open dicussion item | 16:17 |
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| devkulkarni | yes, I am part of the solum team | 16:17 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:17 |
| devkulkarni | #link http://logs.openstack.org/17/194817/4/check/gate-solum-devstack-dsvm/309c35e/logs/devstacklog.txt.gz#_2015-06-26_13_33_36_869 | 16:17 |
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| devkulkarni | is this issue similar to what you were seeing? | 16:17 |
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| rakhmerov | give me a sec.. | 16:17 |
| rakhmerov | I'll check | 16:17 |
| devkulkarni | sure | 16:17 |
| xylan_kong | i saw it | 16:18 |
| rakhmerov | yeah, exact same issue | 16:18 |
| rakhmerov | it should be now ok | 16:18 |
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| NikolayM | hi everyone | 16:18 |
| xylan_kong | NikolayM: hi | 16:18 |
| rakhmerov | hey, NikolayM | 16:18 |
| devkulkarni | rakhmerov: you mean it should not happen after the above mentioned patch is merged, right? | 16:18 |
| rakhmerov | I kept that action item for you about figuring our YAQL 1.0 perspectives | 16:19 |
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| rakhmerov | devkulkarni: nope, it's not related with that patch | 16:19 |
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| devkulkarni | oh okay | 16:19 |
| NikolayM | my status: Implementing new RPC layer, have an idea to not use pika but use kombu instead (because it is already in global-requirements) | 16:19 |
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| rakhmerov | it was happenning because of wrong tags in git history | 16:19 |
| rakhmerov | devkulkarni: so basically I pushed 1.0.0.0b1 by mistake | 16:20 |
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| devkulkarni | rakhmerov: ok, got it. and you mentioned you fixed that this morning. got it. | 16:20 |
| rakhmerov | then I pushed the right one, 0.3.0 but PBR can't build the project for 0.3.0 if there's a greater version (1.0.0.0b1) | 16:20 |
| rakhmerov | yes | 16:21 |
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| rakhmerov | so, devkulkarni: keep in mind that the right version for the client now is 1.0.0 | 16:21 |
| devkulkarni | rakhmerov: ok, makes sense. thanks for addressing this issue. | 16:21 |
| devkulkarni | yes | 16:21 |
| rakhmerov | I sent out the info about that in ML | 16:21 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:21 |
| m4dcoder | hey, Renat. sorry i'm late. | 16:21 |
| rakhmerov | devkulkarni: btw, I have a question for you | 16:21 |
| devkulkarni | rakhmerov: sure | 16:21 |
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| rakhmerov | m4dcoder: hey! no problem | 16:21 |
| rakhmerov | devkulkarni: does Solum still use Mistral API v1.0? | 16:22 |
| rakhmerov | or switched to v2? | 16:22 |
| rakhmerov | v2 is the latest | 16:22 |
| devkulkarni | I think we are still on v1 | 16:22 |
| devkulkarni | when was v2 released? | 16:22 |
| rakhmerov | pretty long time ago actually | 16:22 |
| rakhmerov | the thing is that stable/kilo doesn't support v1 anymore | 16:22 |
| rakhmerov | the corresponding code has been removed | 16:23 |
| devkulkarni | I see.. I will have to go back and check. | 16:23 |
| devkulkarni | oh okay. thanks for the heads up | 16:23 |
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| rakhmerov | so you may want to check that and let us know, we can help you switch to v2 | 16:23 |
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| devkulkarni | I will get with the solum team to check where we are with it | 16:23 |
| devkulkarni | sounds good | 16:23 |
| rakhmerov | yeah | 16:23 |
| rakhmerov | feel free to ask our help | 16:23 |
| devkulkarni | sure thing. | 16:24 |
| rakhmerov | deal | 16:24 |
| devkulkarni | you guys have been pretty helpful :) | 16:24 |
| rakhmerov | you're very welcome | 16:24 |
| rakhmerov | m4dcoder: can you print your status quickly? | 16:24 |
| m4dcoder | sure. working on the "resume" bp. | 16:25 |
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| m4dcoder | and then right now just waiting for team to help me with the mysql/psql patch (mysql version and deadlock in scheduler) | 16:25 |
| rakhmerov | I see | 16:25 |
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| rakhmerov | sorry, I didn't read your last email carefully | 16:26 |
| rakhmerov | about mysql | 16:26 |
| rakhmerov | what I understood from it is that MySQL 5.5 doesn't support even milliseconds | 16:26 |
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| rakhmerov | but I don't know if we even need them | 16:26 |
| rakhmerov | what do you think? | 16:26 |
| m4dcoder | looks like it unless i'm mistaken. | 16:27 |
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| NikolayM | can we use different variants with 5.5 and 5.6? | 16:27 |
| NikolayM | say, use fractional secs in 5.6 and do not use if 5.5 | 16:27 |
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| rakhmerov | my whole point is: I'd like to be compatible with other OpenStack projects in that regard | 16:27 |
| rakhmerov | NikolayM, yes, something like this | 16:27 |
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| rakhmerov | I just don't want to lose the ability to work on mysql 5.5 | 16:28 |
| m4dcoder | i think we do need msec at the minimum unless we have no choice. we can have actions/tasks launched msec about from each other. | 16:28 |
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| rakhmerov | otherwise, imagine that we installed OpenStack where all projects are tested agains 5.5 but we'll have to have another mysql 5.6 specifically for Mistral | 16:28 |
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| m4dcoder | if we are sticking with 5.5, then we will have to change how timestamp is compared in the models. because right now, the unit tests fail at self.assertEqual(created, fetched) where created has fractional seconds in timestamps. | 16:29 |
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| rakhmerov | I think it's just a wrong test case | 16:29 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, m4dcoder, in any case we still owe you a review for your last patch | 16:31 |
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| rakhmerov | as far as the deadlock, it's one of the things I'm going to tackle this week | 16:31 |
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| rakhmerov | myself or NikolayM | 16:32 |
| rakhmerov | he also knows all the pitfalls | 16:32 |
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| rakhmerov | #action rakhmerov: check Winson's info about deadlocks occurring in scheduler | 16:32 |
| rakhmerov | m4dcoder: btw, does that deadlock only happens with mysql? | 16:33 |
| m4dcoder | it happends with psql | 16:33 |
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| rakhmerov | postgres? | 16:33 |
| m4dcoder | postgresql | 16:34 |
| m4dcoder | yes | 16:34 |
| rakhmerov | ooh | 16:34 |
| rakhmerov | msql is fine? | 16:34 |
| rakhmerov | mysql | 16:34 |
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| m4dcoder | i don't recall. i was testing that mostly on postgresql. but i can try and let you know later today. | 16:34 |
| rakhmerov | it's a usefull info actually | 16:34 |
| m4dcoder | ok | 16:34 |
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| rakhmerov | yeah, the thing is that we run Mistral with mysql all the time and scheduler works | 16:35 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:35 |
| rakhmerov | then can you pls send us your configuration for both Mistral and Postgres? | 16:35 |
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| m4dcoder | sure i'll sent that to you later today | 16:35 |
| rakhmerov | so that we could see all TX properties applied to your operations | 16:35 |
| rakhmerov | ok, thanks | 16:35 |
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| NikolayM | I think it is by the reason of using engine directly in tests | 16:36 |
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| NikolayM | in tests, we even don't use the engine client but use engine | 16:36 |
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| NikolayM | and in end of each test we delete all stuff from the DB, right? | 16:36 |
| rakhmerov | #action m4dcoder: send conf files for Mistral and Postgres to investigate deadlocks in scheduler | 16:37 |
| NikolayM | isn't it a block for DB? | 16:37 |
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| NikolayM | what do you think, guys? | 16:38 |
| rakhmerov | NikolayM: it's supposed to be but if it really happens only for Postgres then I believe Winson's Postgres DB is not just propertly configured | 16:38 |
| rakhmerov | as we require in scheduler | 16:38 |
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| NikolayM | ooh, I guess it also happens for mysql | 16:38 |
| rakhmerov | may be | 16:38 |
| m4dcoder | If that's the case, then you'll need to provide some instruction on how to properly configure it. | 16:38 |
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| rakhmerov | m4dcoder: yes, our fault | 16:39 |
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| rakhmerov | NikolayM: your assumption about not using engine client also looks interesting | 16:39 |
| m4dcoder | no one's fault. just need some clarification and i'm reporting what i'm observing. | 16:39 |
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| rakhmerov | #info Do we need to use engine client in unit tests instead of engine directly? | 16:40 |
| rakhmerov | m4dcoder: yes, sure | 16:40 |
| rakhmerov | thanks | 16:40 |
| rakhmerov | anyway, I'm sure we'll get it done soon | 16:40 |
| devkulkarni | my topic in open-discussion has been already covered. need to run.. signing-off. thanks rakhmerov for the help. | 16:40 |
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| rakhmerov | it's the interesting and important issue but the fix should be simple | 16:40 |
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| rakhmerov | devkulkarni: thanks for coming! | 16:41 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, what else do we have on a plate... | 16:41 |
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| rakhmerov | #topic Duplicating messages on executors | 16:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Duplicating messages on executors (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:41 | |
| rakhmerov | unfortunately, we don't have the author of this topic today with us | 16:42 |
| xylan_kong | rakhmerov: what's that mean? | 16:42 |
| xylan_kong | do you know that? | 16:42 |
| rakhmerov | but I'd like to ask you wether you faced it or not? | 16:42 |
| rakhmerov | yeah, xylan_kong, let me explain | 16:42 |
| xylan_kong | ok | 16:42 |
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| rakhmerov | so folks from alcatel lucent (Limor, Moshe, Noa) say that when Mistral engine puts a message into MQ (to run action) then more than one executor can poll it from MQ | 16:43 |
| rakhmerov | e.g. 2 | 16:43 |
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| rakhmerov | I don't really know how the heck that may happen | 16:43 |
| rakhmerov | but maybe you came across this issue | 16:44 |
| rakhmerov | m4dcoder: did you? | 16:44 |
| xylan_kong | rakhmerov: i can test it tomorrow with the latest code | 16:44 |
| rakhmerov | oooh, wait a second | 16:45 |
| rakhmerov | I actually got an email from them with their configuration and topology | 16:45 |
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| rakhmerov | it says they use QPID | 16:45 |
| rakhmerov | not RAbbit | 16:45 |
| xylan_kong | i heard from Limor about this issue, but i don't meet in fact | 16:45 |
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| rakhmerov | ook, looks like it's qpid | 16:46 |
| rakhmerov | not rabbit | 16:46 |
| xylan_kong | yes, they use qpid, i guess rabbitmq doesn't have this problem | 16:46 |
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| rakhmerov | yep, then it should be tested with qpid | 16:46 |
| rakhmerov | maybe qpid should be tuned somehow, dunno | 16:46 |
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| rakhmerov | alright, anyway, we could spend some time investigating it | 16:47 |
| xylan_kong | i'm not familiar with qpid, are you? | 16:47 |
| rakhmerov | I'm not either | 16:47 |
| rakhmerov | just heard about it briefly | 16:47 |
| rakhmerov | I think it should be rather a BP than a bug though since we've never even thought about using qpid | 16:48 |
| xylan_kong | anyway, i will test it again with rabbitmq to ensure it's ok with the latest code | 16:48 |
| xylan_kong | maybe | 16:48 |
| rakhmerov | well, as far as rabbit we would have noticed that because we run it mostly every day | 16:49 |
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| xylan_kong | yes, actually | 16:49 |
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| rakhmerov | what I mean is that we need to aim to make it work with qpid intentionally | 16:49 |
| rakhmerov | it's a BP | 16:49 |
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| rakhmerov | #action rakhmerov: create a BP to make Mistral work with qpid behind oslo.messaging | 16:49 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, don't know what else to say on this topic | 16:50 |
| rakhmerov | needs to be tested and investigated | 16:50 |
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| rakhmerov | I guess eventually we need to create a new gate that would run functional tests with qpid | 16:51 |
| rakhmerov | #topic Liberty-2 planning | 16:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty-2 planning (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:51 | |
| rakhmerov | guys, also I was going to talk about Liberty 2 plans but looks like we're running out of time today | 16:52 |
| *** galstrom_zzz is now known as galstrom | 16:52 | |
| rakhmerov | so my suggestion is to send a list of BPs and bugs that are most important for you | 16:52 |
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| rakhmerov | either to myself or even better to openstack-dev | 16:52 |
| xylan_kong | ok, no problem | 16:53 |
| rakhmerov | so that I could collect them, assign them etc. etc. | 16:53 |
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| rakhmerov | I, of cource, have a high-level picture but also want to hear from you | 16:53 |
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| rakhmerov | #action xylan_kong, m4dcoder, NikolayM, LimorStotland: send a list of desired BPs and bugs for Liberty-2 so that we could plan | 16:54 |
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| rakhmerov | #topic Open Discussion | 16:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:55 | |
| rakhmerov | m4dcoder: how is that pause/resume thing going? | 16:55 |
| m4dcoder | rakhmerov: i have not seem the problem with multiple executors getting same action from rabbitmq. | 16:55 |
| rakhmerov | ok, yes | 16:55 |
| m4dcoder | good progress with pause/resume. | 16:56 |
| rakhmerov | does that patch on review completes it? | 16:56 |
| rakhmerov | you're planning to do something else? | 16:56 |
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| m4dcoder | however, my colleagues and i are debating (just now) whether we should let users change input data on resume. the patch was WIP to let dmitri see where i'm at. no need to review yet. | 16:57 |
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| m4dcoder | patch is WIP not complete yet. | 16:58 |
| rakhmerov | yeah, I know | 16:58 |
| rakhmerov | ok, keep us posted please | 16:58 |
| rakhmerov | ok, guys, I think it's time to end our meeting | 16:58 |
| rakhmerov | thanks a lot for coming! | 16:58 |
| rakhmerov | see you next time | 16:59 |
| xylan_kong | ok, see you | 16:59 |
| rakhmerov | bye | 16:59 |
| NikolayM | bye! | 16:59 |
| rakhmerov | #endmeeting | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 29 16:59:15 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2015/mistral.2015-06-29-16.00.html | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2015/mistral.2015-06-29-16.00.txt | 16:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2015/mistral.2015-06-29-16.00.log.html | 16:59 |
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| *** matjazp has joined #openstack-meeting | 17:00 | |
| vigneshvar | matjazp: hi | 17:00 |
| rluethi | hi all | 17:00 |
| matjazp | hi all | 17:00 |
| matjazp | vigneshvar: hey | 17:00 |
| vigneshvar | hi all | 17:00 |
| dguitarbite | #startmeeting training-guides | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 29 17:00:58 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dguitarbite. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'training_guides' | 17:01 |
| dguitarbite | Hello | 17:01 |
| dguitarbite | Roll call | 17:01 |
| matjazp | here | 17:01 |
| vigneshvar | hi | 17:01 |
| rluethi | hey | 17:01 |
| dguitarbite | I see that the agenda is outdated | 17:02 |
| matjazp | dguitarbite: standard topics, I guess | 17:02 |
| dguitarbite | Yes | 17:02 |
| rluethi | yes | 17:02 |
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| dguitarbite | SO what is the important topic for today? | 17:02 |
| rluethi | we fixed the bug. yay. | 17:02 |
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| rluethi | thanks, sayali, vigneshvar. | 17:03 |
| dguitarbite | #topic training-labs | 17:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "training-labs (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:03 | |
| vigneshvar | rluethi: :) | 17:03 |
| dguitarbite | That is good news | 17:03 |
| rluethi | it was yet another race. | 17:03 |
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| dguitarbite | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196466/ | 17:04 |
| dguitarbite | This patch should solve the issue. I will run repeat test overnight | 17:04 |
| dguitarbite | and report back the stats. prob next meeting | 17:04 |
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| vigneshvar | vigneshvar: I still have some doubts on it. Figuring it out | 17:05 |
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| matjazp | dguitarbite: we still need CI for the labs.. anyone has any idea where to get necessary infra for it? | 17:06 |
| dguitarbite | matjazp, Yes | 17:06 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: the main problem with labs CI is still that we don't have a kvm backend yet. | 17:06 |
| dguitarbite | We need KVM backend | 17:07 |
| dguitarbite | rluethi, +1 | 17:07 |
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| dguitarbite | And also the CI will be shared for testing the labs and install-guides. I guess we will run in parallel from this point on. | 17:07 |
| dguitarbite | I suggest waiting a bit for the same. Hopefully we should have this out by Liberty release. | 17:07 |
| matjazp | sure, but virtbox will stay, right? some ppl will try this on it regardless of the kvm option | 17:07 |
| dguitarbite | matjazp, yes | 17:07 |
| dguitarbite | We will add virtualbox support too. | 17:08 |
| dguitarbite | It should be very similar. And with Python some issues on Windows should be resolved which we currently face with BASH. | 17:08 |
| dguitarbite | matjazp, although the question of packaing python windows binaries is still hanging | 17:08 |
| dguitarbite | but it works for sure. | 17:08 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: virtualbox support needs to stay in, agreed. | 17:09 |
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| rluethi | not needing KVM is one of our main advantages. | 17:09 |
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| matjazp | in the mean time, we should just do this CI thing in the beefier VM, install VBox and run scripts as they are.. | 17:10 |
| dguitarbite | matjazp, In future I also plan to add USB Booting Clusters | 17:10 |
| dguitarbite | so the base OS should not matter much | 17:10 |
| rluethi | matjazp: you lost me there. can you elaborate? | 17:10 |
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| dguitarbite | matjazp, The issue is to add VirtualBox related scripts for a few months. I am not sure if the infra team would be happy with that. | 17:11 |
| dguitarbite | Meaning setting up the environment for VirtualBox! | 17:11 |
| matjazp | we can do testing of bash scripts in the somwhat larger VM? OR if we can get it, in the bare metal box | 17:11 |
| dguitarbite | Yes, we could do that | 17:11 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: which somewhat larger vm? | 17:13 |
| dguitarbite | matjazp, Here is my plan | 17:13 |
| matjazp | Ideal would be to put a fresh copy of OS on bare metal, install Vbox and test osbash scripts. It could even be a job that runs one a day, not necessary for every commit | 17:13 |
| dguitarbite | 1. Get Training guides promoted from incubation. Get labs as seperate repository (training-labs) under training-guides | 17:13 |
| dguitarbite | And then propose the CI changes | 17:13 |
| dguitarbite | KVM backend would be added somewhere along the way. | 17:13 |
| dguitarbite | I am going to sit and plan this thing out completely with Andreas Jaeger on Wed. Also meanwhile add the Landing page for training etc. | 17:14 |
| matjazp | rluethi: we can put everything inside a large VM (large=more RAM), run cluster inside on Vbox, just to see if everything works.. I doubt it would be fast enough to test race conditions... or maybe, it would be even better, as it would be slow | 17:14 |
| rluethi | matjazp: oh, you mean using the openstack ci infrastructure and install virtualbox there? | 17:14 |
| dguitarbite | Just trying to figure out the best possible way and sequence, along with the least disruptive path. | 17:14 |
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| dguitarbite | matjazp, that should not be considered. I understand your logic, but the third level virt! would cause lots of races | 17:15 |
| dguitarbite | and lead the jobs to fail or with so many exceptions that it would not make any sense | 17:15 |
| matjazp | rluethi: well... yes, but I'm afraid we don't fit in onfra framework... no one want's Vbox as a dependency | 17:15 |
| dguitarbite | We would need 1st level virt for the VM's | 17:15 |
| matjazp | onfra=infra | 17:15 |
| dguitarbite | and with the install-gudies automated testing, we will have more reasons to request the same. | 17:16 |
| dguitarbite | *infra | 17:16 |
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| matjazp | dguitarbite: yes, but we don't have bare metal boxes, do we? so maybe race conditions would emerge even more frequently on SLOW nested VM | 17:16 |
| rluethi | well, at least we have the scripts in place so everyone can test at home. | 17:17 |
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| rluethi | and with the new functionality, we can test starting from a snapshot which speeds things up a lot. | 17:17 |
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| dguitarbite | matjazp, We can request more stuff when we are independent project and also we can get better hardware (may be once a week or fortnight). Also having the install-gudies team with us would make it easier to achieve, | 17:18 |
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| dguitarbite | the worst case we get good KVM VM's, then we configure them to run the scripts directly (but networking issues) and I am not exactly sure how to do this one or even if its possible. | 17:19 |
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| vigneshvar | when we say testing we need to test with windows as well right | 17:19 |
| dguitarbite | matjazp, and again netsted virtualization in KVM is much better (faster) w.r.t. virtualbox. | 17:19 |
| sayalilunkad | Hello | 17:19 |
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| dguitarbite | vigneshvar, Not in the CI | 17:20 |
| sayalilunkad | Sorry about the delay | 17:20 |
| dguitarbite | sayalilunkad, hi | 17:20 |
| vigneshvar | sayalilunkad: hi | 17:20 |
| dguitarbite | vigneshvar, testing could be done on Windows but I cannot gurantee automated CI testing. | 17:20 |
| matjazp | dguitarbite: it is, and it doesn't matter if the testing is really slow, we don't have a lot of changes in the code | 17:20 |
| matjazp | vigneshvar: is right.. if we "support" Win, than we should test it | 17:21 |
| vigneshvar | But if we have nested virtualization we could do for both !! is n't it | 17:21 |
| dguitarbite | matjazp, exactly. Once a fortnight works for our use-case. And also it would be easier to acquire this time during low load (sunday's for ex.) from the infra team. | 17:21 |
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| dguitarbite | vigneshvar, KVM support for netsted virtualization is inbuilt in the Linux kernel | 17:22 |
| dguitarbite | and its much faster as it has very low overhead. | 17:22 |
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| vigneshvar | dguitarbite: I meant for testing virtual box , we could use a large kvm VM | 17:23 |
| vigneshvar | and then test both windows as well as linux (vbox) | 17:23 |
| dguitarbite | vigneshvar, yes, but that will not necessarily make it faster. | 17:23 |
| vigneshvar | dguitarbite: True | 17:24 |
| matjazp | vbox is slow and it doesn't support HW nested virt.... it is so slow that devstack I can't really run nested windows guests in a virtualised openstack... Just booting takes forewer :( | 17:24 |
| dguitarbite | vigneshvar, I tried this some time back on a 32 GB i7 machine | 17:24 |
| matjazp | *that IN devstack | 17:24 |
| dguitarbite | Conclusion is similar to what matjazp says | 17:25 |
| matjazp | dguitarbite: and that is a machine that almost noone in the training has with them | 17:25 |
| vigneshvar | dguitarbite: I accept that. I just felt that testing might be incomplete | 17:25 |
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| dguitarbite | matjazp, I know. I was just trying to see if scaling up works in this case. | 17:26 |
| matjazp | vigneshvar: if we could get a bare metal box (e.g. via ironic in openstack?), than this is all moot point | 17:27 |
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| rluethi | vigneshvar: we should aim for complete test coverage, but we take one step after the other and we may never get there :-) | 17:27 |
| dguitarbite | #topic general-discussion | 17:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "general-discussion (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:28 | |
| vigneshvar | rluethi: right | 17:28 |
| vigneshvar | matjazp: +1 | 17:28 |
| dguitarbite | rluethi, +1 | 17:30 |
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| rluethi | so I guess we're done!? | 17:31 |
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| dguitarbite | I am quite busy this week. But by the end of the this week or early next week I will send an email to the docs ML with the plan. | 17:32 |
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| dguitarbite | rluethi, I guess so. | 17:32 |
| dguitarbite | Any other topic? | 17:32 |
| matjazp | what about shifting meeting time, as sean asked? discuss on ML? | 17:32 |
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| dguitarbite | I need to see the mail. | 17:33 |
| sayalilunkad | tokyo summit sessions? | 17:33 |
| sayalilunkad | I would like to keep one on the labs | 17:33 |
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| vigneshvar | sayalilunkad: +1 | 17:33 |
| sayalilunkad | and maybe a hands on too | 17:33 |
| dguitarbite | I dont mind moving the meeting timing. May be make it much better for CEST this time. | 17:33 |
| matjazp | sayalilunkad: sean can't be here until then | 17:33 |
| rluethi | matjazp: sean didn't indicate any alternatives. "some other time" is not all that helpful. | 17:33 |
| dguitarbite | rluethi, I assume we all discuss the common free time we all have most of the weeks. | 17:34 |
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| sayalilunkad | cool, we can discuss that on the ML | 17:36 |
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| rluethi | k. | 17:36 |
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| sayalilunkad | rluethi dguitarbite what do you guys think about the labs session for tokyo ? | 17:36 |
| sayalilunkad | deadline for proposals is july 15th I guess | 17:37 |
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| rluethi | sayalilunkad: would love to do it, but whether I can afford to be there is uncertain | 17:37 |
| sayalilunkad | we can always propose it, we need to get selected first :) | 17:38 |
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| rluethi | propose away. | 17:38 |
| dguitarbite | sayalilunkad, I like the idea. We need to advertise a bit more about this. | 17:40 |
| dguitarbite | Any other topic? | 17:40 |
| sayalilunkad | ok, lets have a call soon then. | 17:40 |
| vigneshvar | may be we should decide by this week | 17:40 |
| dguitarbite | sayalilunkad, for the session more than hands on I would like to suggest joining the upstream-training part. | 17:41 |
| dguitarbite | If that is ok with you. | 17:41 |
| sayalilunkad | dguitarbite: I agree. Will write an email to stef about that | 17:41 |
| dguitarbite | Ok, thanks :). | 17:41 |
| dguitarbite | sayalilunkad, I guess you missed this but Roger has fixed the race with metadata. So we should have working Juno cluster! | 17:42 |
| sayalilunkad | oh awesome! I am yet to take a look at that. | 17:42 |
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| matjazp | sayalilunkad: stef changed jobs | 17:42 |
| matjazp | he is at dreamhost now | 17:42 |
| dguitarbite | matjazp, what? | 17:42 |
| dguitarbite | ok | 17:43 |
| matjazp | not sure who will take his job at the foundation? | 17:43 |
| dguitarbite | So will he not participate again? | 17:43 |
| sayalilunkad | matjazp: oh. so doesn't hold his position witht he foundation? | 17:43 |
| dguitarbite | I assumed that upstream-training was not exactly fixed to his role at Foundation If I am correct. | 17:43 |
| matjazp | sayalilunkad: don't know, but I guess that he'll be busy with new assigments? | 17:44 |
| matjazp | dguitarbite: sure, but he was the "go to guy" for that :) | 17:44 |
| dguitarbite | matjazp, yeah | 17:44 |
| dguitarbite | fingers crossed in that case. | 17:44 |
| sayalilunkad | matjazp: ah yes. | 17:44 |
| matjazp | maybe sean has some more info about upstream training... we should ask him over ML | 17:45 |
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| dguitarbite | So anything else? | 17:47 |
| sayalilunkad | nope | 17:47 |
| matjazp | I'm good | 17:47 |
| rluethi | me too | 17:47 |
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| vigneshvar | nope | 17:48 |
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| dguitarbite | Ok, so lets end it. | 17:48 |
| vigneshvar | bye | 17:48 |
| matjazp | see you next week | 17:48 |
| rluethi | bye | 17:48 |
| dguitarbite | #endmeeting | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 29 17:49:01 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:49 |
| dguitarbite | bye | 17:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2015/training_guides.2015-06-29-17.00.html | 17:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2015/training_guides.2015-06-29-17.00.txt | 17:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2015/training_guides.2015-06-29-17.00.log.html | 17:49 |
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| sarob | #startmeeting akanda | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 29 18:00:08 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: akanda)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'akanda' | 18:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 18:00 |
| sarob | o/ | 18:00 |
| puranamr | o/ | 18:02 |
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| sarob | anyone else? | 18:02 |
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| sarob | agenda | 18:04 |
| sarob | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/akanda#Agenda | 18:04 |
| sarob | agenda is sloppy this morning | 18:04 |
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| sarob | #topic last meeting action items | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "last meeting action items (Meeting topic: akanda)" | 18:05 | |
| sarob | i had the only task action | 18:05 |
| sarob | i cleared out the builder repo | 18:05 |
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| sarob | i still need to clear out the github:akanda repos | 18:05 |
| sarob | i will get that going today | 18:05 |
| sarob | #action sarob clear out github:akanda repos with readme to current repos | 18:06 |
| sarob | moving on | 18:06 |
| sarob | #topic m1 cleanup | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "m1 cleanup (Meeting topic: akanda)" | 18:06 | |
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| sarob | i will cut m1 today from last thursday unless there are any objections | 18:07 |
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| sarob | doc updates and lbaas get pushed to m2 | 18:07 |
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| sarob | still no adam_g or davidlenwell? | 18:09 |
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| adam_g | oh hey | 18:10 |
| adam_g | sorry | 18:10 |
| adam_g | wrestling with wifi at this cafe | 18:10 |
| sarob | adam_g: he | 18:10 |
| sarob | np | 18:11 |
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| sarob | updating lbaas and docs to m2 | 18:12 |
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| sarob | done | 18:12 |
| sarob | any comments on m1 ? | 18:13 |
| sarob | okay moving on | 18:13 |
| sarob | #topic starting m2 | 18:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "starting m2 (Meeting topic: akanda)" | 18:14 | |
| sarob | #link https://launchpad.net/akanda/+milestone/liberty-2 | 18:14 |
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| sarob | davidlenwell is making a lot a changes with the lbaas driver bp | 18:14 |
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| sarob | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/195814/ | 18:15 |
| adam_g | missing https://blueprints.launchpad.net/akanda/+spec/rug-ha and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/akanda/+spec/rug-scaling | 18:15 |
| adam_g | both of those could be squashed into one | 18:15 |
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| sarob | hmm, true | 18:16 |
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| sarob | #action sarob squash https://blueprints.launchpad.net/akanda/+spec/rug-ha and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/akanda/+spec/rug-scaling into one bp and set to M2 | 18:16 |
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| sarob | markmcclain: any comments on the driver patch? | 18:17 |
| markmcclain | I've only given a cursory look since the tests were failing | 18:18 |
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| markmcclain | I'm home all this week so I can give it a deeper dive | 18:18 |
| sarob | markmcclain: cool | 18:19 |
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| sarob | markmcclain: you want to take on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/akanda/+spec/appliance-ha | 18:20 |
| sarob | markmcclain: seems that there shouldnt be much to getting it working since vrrp is already running | 18:21 |
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| markmcclain | sure.. it will be next week ebfore I'll be able to get started on it | 18:21 |
| adam_g | markmcclain, you might be interested in reviewing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/195366/ and corresponding spec if you have time, too. sorta *just works*, i feel like ive overlooked something | 18:22 |
| sarob | ryanpetrello: do you want to take a stab at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/akanda/+spec/rug-reboot-circuit-breaker | 18:23 |
| sarob | ryanpetrello: i seem to remember you had some ideas around that | 18:23 |
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| markmcclain | adam_g: awesome I'll add it to the queue | 18:23 |
| markmcclain | sarob: the circuit breaker was probably more from me | 18:23 |
| sarob | markmcclain: opps, okay | 18:24 |
| markmcclain | it just came from a prod issue ryanpetrello had faced | 18:24 |
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| sarob | markmcclain: you want to take that on as well then? | 18:24 |
| markmcclain | I'm short of bandwidth to take it on at the moment | 18:25 |
| markmcclain | also the work for the spares pool might mitigate this somewhat | 18:26 |
| sarob | markmcclain: okay, i will leave it hang for now | 18:26 |
| sarob | markmcclain: right | 18:26 |
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| adam_g | i put a initial spec up for the pooling stuff | 18:27 |
| adam_g | i think that'll be blocked on the rug clustering | 18:27 |
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| sarob | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194882/ | 18:27 |
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| sarob | adam_g: you want to own the ha and pooling bp? | 18:28 |
| adam_g | sarob, sure. tho both will probably block on baby unless someone else picks them up while im out | 18:29 |
| sarob | scaling and pooling bp that is | 18:29 |
| sarob | baby blocker, classic | 18:29 |
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| sarob | np | 18:29 |
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| sarob | done | 18:31 |
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| sarob | leaving vpnaas hanging as well for now | 18:31 |
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| sarob | puranamr: ideas on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/akanda/+spec/reduce-vm-footprint | 18:32 |
| puranamr | sarob, did not still put in the bp, but collecting some ideas | 18:33 |
| puranamr | will wet it and start making additions | 18:33 |
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| sarob | puranamr: you should write up a spec | 18:34 |
| sarob | puranamr: i can help with that | 18:34 |
| puranamr | sarob, sure | 18:34 |
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| sarob | id apprec some feedback on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194847/ as well | 18:36 |
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| markmcclain | ok | 18:37 |
| sarob | im hounding davidlenwell on creating a spec for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/akanda/+spec/lbaas-v2-support | 18:37 |
| sarob | so y'all deep dive on that when i goes out today | 18:37 |
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| sarob | any other comments on m2 bp? | 18:38 |
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| adam_g | none here | 18:38 |
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| adam_g | a spec on the lbaas stuff would be helpful | 18:38 |
| sarob | adam_g: required is better word ;) | 18:39 |
| adam_g | sarob, yes | 18:39 |
| sarob | moving on ... | 18:39 |
| adam_g | like, the spec should have been written and approved before implementing :) | 18:39 |
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| sarob | adam_g: yeah, that is a detail that got missed | 18:40 |
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| sarob | #topic any other business | 18:41 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: akanda)" | 18:41 | |
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| markmcclain | nothing from me | 18:42 |
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| sarob | okay dorky details then | 18:43 |
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| sarob | we are 23rd on reviews | 18:43 |
| adam_g | what does that mean? | 18:44 |
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| sarob | on openstack projects | 18:44 |
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| sarob | better stat | 18:45 |
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| sarob | we are 7th on stackforge commits | 18:45 |
| sarob | it meaning almost nothing | 18:46 |
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| sarob | but it does put our stuff next to other groups on a list | 18:46 |
| sarob | thats all the exciting other business i have | 18:47 |
| sarob | puranamr: anything from you? | 18:47 |
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| puranamr | nope | 18:48 |
| sarob | adam_g: hows baby watch going? | 18:48 |
| adam_g | sarob, good. im on pager duty. due date is wednesday. | 18:48 |
| sarob | adam_g: exciting its almost here | 18:49 |
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| markmcclain | adam_g: exciting times | 18:49 |
| adam_g | :) | 18:49 |
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| sarob | adam_g: great big ball of good vibes | 18:50 |
| sarob | im going to call the meeting on a good note | 18:50 |
| sarob | everyone have a great week | 18:51 |
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| sarob | #endmeeting | 18:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:51 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 29 18:51:35 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/akanda/2015/akanda.2015-06-29-18.00.html | 18:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/akanda/2015/akanda.2015-06-29-18.00.txt | 18:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/akanda/2015/akanda.2015-06-29-18.00.log.html | 18:51 |
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| geoffarnold | . | 18:59 |
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| Rockyg | o/ | 19:01 |
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| geoffarnold | o/ | 19:01 |
| geoffarnold | Slow start? | 19:01 |
| MeganR | o/ | 19:01 |
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| Rockyg | yah. | 19:01 |
| barrett | Hi All | 19:01 |
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| barrett | #startmeeting product_team | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 29 19:02:14 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is barrett. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product_team)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_team' | 19:02 |
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| barrett | Let's start by taking role call | 19:02 |
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| geoffarnold | o/ | 19:02 |
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| barrett | o/ | 19:03 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 19:03 |
| MeganR | o/ | 19:03 |
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| barrett | Shamail - are you on? | 19:03 |
| barrett | I think it could be a light meeting given the upcoming 4th of July holiday. | 19:04 |
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| geoffarnold | One action I had | 19:04 |
| geoffarnold | I reached out to Tom to see if there was going to be an Operators Midcycle | 19:04 |
| geoffarnold | no response | 19:04 |
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| geoffarnold | checked a couple of the other regulars: they hadn't heard anyhing | 19:05 |
| barrett | Hmmm, not sure what else we can do to get that one rolling... | 19:05 |
| Rockyg | yeah. Nothing yet. The size might be a problem | 19:05 |
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| sarob | o/ | 19:05 |
| barrett | Maybe we should plan to not try and align with that and set a date for us to meet...? | 19:05 |
| barrett | Hi sarob | 19:05 |
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| geoffarnold | Do we want to meet f2f? | 19:06 |
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| geoffarnold | Ah, good. sarob might know | 19:06 |
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| sarob | barrett: hi! | 19:06 |
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| Shamail | hi everyone | 19:06 |
| sarob | Shamail: hi | 19:06 |
| geoffarnold | sarob, hae you heard anything about an ops midcycle? | 19:06 |
| barrett | geoffarnold: I'd like to do that if we have can find a time/place that gives us critical mass. | 19:06 |
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| barrett | Hi Shamail | 19:06 |
| geoffarnold | Based on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints we're probably looking at mid-Aug | 19:07 |
| geoffarnold | Shall I send out a Doodle poll? | 19:08 |
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| cloudrancher | Hi | 19:08 |
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| barrett | Geoffarnold - Pls do. We're looking for meeting area and dates I think. | 19:09 |
| sarob | geoffarnold: i havent | 19:09 |
| Shamail | Are we giving up on co-location with ops (since we don't know when they are meeting)? | 19:09 |
| Shamail | hi cloudrancher | 19:09 |
| barrett | shamail: I think we should consider that. | 19:09 |
| geoffarnold | OK, Doodle can do dates, and I'll ask for preferred locations in the comments | 19:09 |
| Shamail | geoffarnold: Can you also make one of the options 'co-locate with date/place for ops midcycle'? | 19:10 |
| Shamail | or will doodle not allow that | 19:10 |
| barrett | Geoffarnold: Sounds good; If there's an Intel facility in the area where people want to meet, we can probably host it. | 19:10 |
| Shamail | Ditto for EMC locations as well barrett | 19:10 |
| barrett | Shamail - I think the question is how long do we want to wait for the Ops midcycle to get set? | 19:10 |
| sarob | if y'all want to meet in livermore | 19:11 |
| geoffarnold | Let's not wait. Aug scheduling is a pain | 19:11 |
| sarob | my office is always available | 19:11 |
| Shamail | Makes sense barrett | 19:11 |
| barrett | geoffarnold: +1 | 19:11 |
| geoffarnold | Livermore is suppoosed to break 100F tomorrow | 19:11 |
| Shamail | sounds goood geoffarnold | 19:11 |
| barrett | OK - anything else on this topic? | 19:11 |
| barrett | If not we'll move on | 19:12 |
| geoffarnold | OK, I'll send out the poll today, look for responses by end of week | 19:12 |
| natez | while I'm new here, I have to agree waiting until August will impact the time we have available to plan something impactful for Tokyo. | 19:12 |
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| natez | I'm very interested in meeting f2f if we can get a center of mass. with or without the operators meetup. | 19:12 |
| barrett | natez: Are you thinking second half of July? | 19:13 |
| geoffarnold | The trouble with 2nd half July is this: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints | 19:13 |
| Shamail | Yeah...second half of July is already tight between sprints, OSCON, and BoD meeting. | 19:14 |
| natez | when I look at August openstack events, it's filling up. July is more condusive for me beyond the week of OSCON. | 19:14 |
| Rockyg | Early August... | 19:14 |
| Rockyg | DefCore is in Austin week after OSCon, with board meeting right before | 19:15 |
| barrett | I think it would be hard to make it happen before OSCON. | 19:15 |
| Shamail | geoffarnold: to the bat mobile! I mean doodle poll! | 19:15 |
| natez | how about somewhere August 1-14? | 19:15 |
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| barrett | natez: +1 | 19:15 |
| Shamail | Let's conduct the poll | 19:16 |
| sarob | maybe | 19:16 |
| barrett | Geoffarnold: We'll leave the doodle in your capable hands. Thanks | 19:16 |
| barrett | Let's move on | 19:16 |
| sarob | yes, plz | 19:16 |
| Shamail | Date ranges look good natez, please vote on the poll. | 19:16 |
| barrett | We'll revisit in next week's meeting with the poll results inhand. | 19:16 |
| barrett | #topic Use Case Repo | 19:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Use Case Repo (Meeting topic: product_team)" | 19:16 | |
| barrett | RockyG: Do you have any news on this one? | 19:17 |
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| Rockyg | Should have patch before TC tomorrow. | 19:17 |
| barrett | Excellent! | 19:17 |
| barrett | How long after that til it could go live? | 19:17 |
| Rockyg | This week. Since it's new, it doesn't need to wait for a repo migration. | 19:18 |
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| barrett | All sounds good, sounds like we can target posting our use cases next week. | 19:19 |
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| Rockyg | I have a question on format. We have user stories and use cases. | 19:19 |
| Rockyg | User stories tend to be a workflow. Use cases are generally a single action? | 19:20 |
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| barrett | Shamail: Do you want to take that one? | 19:20 |
| Shamail | sure | 19:20 |
| Rockyg | If Use cases are really small, we'll have hundreds to thousands. | 19:20 |
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| Shamail | User Stories tend to reflect the purpose of why we are doing something, whereas use case generally implies how it is done/leveraged | 19:20 |
| Shamail | User Stories tend to be small but get broken into tasks (one user story could generate a lot of tasks) | 19:21 |
| Rockyg | Right. and each task is a use case? Or....? | 19:21 |
| Shamail | I think what you are describing would be a task (versus a use case) Rockyg | 19:21 |
| Rockyg | Ah. | 19:21 |
| barrett | And is a task equal to a BP? | 19:22 |
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| Shamail | Use Case is similar to User Story but User Story leaves more autonomy | 19:22 |
| Rockyg | Hmm. Ok. | 19:22 |
| Shamail | Each task is equal to a unit of work, so yeah | 19:22 |
| Shamail | Example might be easiest | 19:22 |
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| geoffarnold | Wiki page, please, with approved taxonomy. We keep going over this. | 19:22 |
| barrett | geoffarnold: +1 | 19:23 |
| Shamail | working on it geoffarnold! sorry for the delay :( | 19:23 |
| Rockyg | Just an FYI. We'll need to track BPs, Specs, and RFEs (bugs that are new feature requests) | 19:23 |
| Shamail | Rockyg: +1 | 19:23 |
| Shamail | User Story: "As a operator, I want to be notified when my instances are offline" | 19:23 |
| Shamail | Task: Make UI for showing instance status | 19:23 |
| Shamail | Task: Conduct polling to check instance availability | 19:23 |
| Shamail | Task: Configure email capabilities for notification | 19:24 |
| Shamail | etc | 19:24 |
| Shamail | This is just an example | 19:24 |
| Shamail | but I am hoping it shows the domain of user story versus tasks | 19:24 |
| barrett | Works for me | 19:26 |
| Rockyg | So, here is some large site operators' use cases. I'd love to get your breakdown of what is and isn't and how to convert it to use cases: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Network_Segmentation_Usecases | 19:26 |
| Shamail | I'll try to update the team on the progress of building common taxonomy (we can discuss the initial draft as a team) | 19:26 |
| Shamail | Thanks Rockyg, i'll give it a shot | 19:26 |
| Shamail | barrett: Can you please assign an action? | 19:26 |
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| Rockyg | It's a great start and we can use your work to inform Ops how to better write these up. | 19:27 |
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| Rockyg | FYI a couple of ops will be taking these to the Neutron midcycle for discussion on how to implement | 19:27 |
| barrett | #action Shamail to review Large Site Operators use cases and map to our User Story/Task taxonomy | 19:27 |
| Shamail | The goal is to hopefully make it easier to capture the high-level request while leaving the architecture/implementation up to the dev teams. This way the burden is reduced on the user story generators and dev teams have full control of how/what they see as its manifestation. | 19:28 |
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| Shamail | I think we're good with this topic for now. Agreed? | 19:28 |
| barrett | Shamail - Do you want to discuss the email you sent about Themes/Epics & User Stories? | 19:28 |
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| barrett | Or are you good with this? | 19:29 |
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| Shamail | Let's put that on the schedule for next week please. I want to send it out to the ML (after a few of you have had a chance to modify the draft) | 19:29 |
| Shamail | We can then answer questions next week versus explain it | 19:29 |
| Shamail | I'll make sure to send it out to the ML by Thursday. It would be good to get the information out there before the repo. | 19:30 |
| barrett | #action Carol to add topic on Epics/Themes/User Stories to Agenda for next week's meeting with Shamail to lead | 19:30 |
| Rockyg | +1 | 19:30 |
| sarob | +1 | 19:30 |
| geoffarnold | +1 | 19:30 |
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| barrett | OK next topic | 19:30 |
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| barrett | #topic Work FLow | 19:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Work FLow (Meeting topic: product_team)" | 19:31 | |
| barrett | Shamail - you have this one too | 19:31 |
| Shamail | Do you recall what this topic was about? Sorry :\ | 19:31 |
| Shamail | Is this tied to the other topic of workflow of themes -> user stories -> BP etc? | 19:32 |
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| barrett | Yes, I think it is how they get gathered, turned into design summit input, and how roadmap is generated as outcome | 19:32 |
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| Shamail | Ah got it! | 19:32 |
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| barrett | Do you want to discuss now or defer? | 19:33 |
| Shamail | I can discuss it briefly and then take away an action item after the groups feedback | 19:33 |
| barrett | ok | 19:33 |
| Shamail | As everyone is aware, we want to be able to aggregate feedback from the various working groups and then share that feedback with the project teams by the design summit. Finally, we want to also ensure that the future intentions/directions of projects are also available to the community in an easy to consume manner. | 19:34 |
| Shamail | To support this workflow: We have five main tasks that must be completed... 1) obtain user stories from WGs in a standard format 2) aggregate the user stories in a common location/format and allow other groups to "show support" for the user story 3) prioritize the user stories | 19:35 |
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| Shamail | 4) work with the project teams at the design summit to share the user stories and the calculated priorities. We also need to capture the outcome from the design summit (as it pertains to the user stories) in this step as well | 19:36 |
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| Shamail | 5) Once we know which user stories are being worked on for a release, we need to be able to show them on a standard roadmap (working with Lauren on this one) as well as dashboards that show status for the user stories and one for the epic as well | 19:37 |
| Rockyg | OK. small question. Do we want to call the repo use-cases or user-stories? We have time to change it, but just barely | 19:38 |
| Shamail | Stretch goal: We should revisit the "top 10 prioritized user stories" against the items worked on and report out the percentage to the TC/BoD | 19:38 |
| barrett | Shamail: Do the epics get defined as part of step #3 or ahead of it? | 19:38 |
| Shamail | Epics would be defined at step 2 (as we aggregate) | 19:38 |
| Shamail | Good point Rockyg | 19:38 |
| Shamail | I personally vote for userstories but usecases works too. | 19:39 |
| barrett | Gotcha | 19:39 |
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| barrett | shamail: +1 | 19:39 |
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| Rockyg | userstories or user-stories? | 19:39 |
| Shamail | So this is the high-level flow, if we agree with the premise and function of our group in this workflow then I can write up something a bit more detailed for review | 19:39 |
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| barrett | user-stories is good for me | 19:40 |
| Shamail | openstack-userstories or openstack-user-stories, hmm... | 19:40 |
| Shamail | barrett: +1 | 19:40 |
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| barrett | rockyg: OK? | 19:40 |
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| Rockyg | Yup. Action item it, please? | 19:41 |
| Shamail | Once we come up with a standard template, we can email the various working groups and user committee to let them know about the format and ask for their help in capturing the requirements in a standard manner | 19:41 |
| barrett | #action Rockyg to use the name user-stories for the repo name | 19:42 |
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| Shamail | The challenge with this workflow is two-fold... 1) The aggregation and formatting task might fall on us and we don't have that many active people yet so it could be quite a burden (depending on demand) | 19:42 |
| Rockyg | Thanks! | 19:42 |
| cloudrancher | barrett: +1 | 19:42 |
| barrett | shamail: We were working toward a deadline for user stories of last week/this week.... | 19:43 |
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| Shamail | 2) For the design summit, we will need people that already have working relationships with the project teams and we would need to request about 20-30 minutes of team to present | 19:43 |
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| Shamail | this will also require people | 19:43 |
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| Shamail | barrett: agreed, but I don't think we are following the top half of this workflow for the pilot right? The user stories in the pilot are being created/submitted by us | 19:44 |
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| barrett | Shamail - Yes, that's true | 19:44 |
| Shamail | for this go-around, we probably need to pick up the workflow at #2 | 19:44 |
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| Shamail | so external groups formatting properly will be something we need to engage on M+ | 19:45 |
| Shamail | The aggregation will be simpler to since we only need to work with 5-10 | 19:45 |
| barrett | Shamail: For the M-design summit and the Pilot process we're running now, I think we'll need to have an owner for the top user stories we want to move through the design process and that owner will need to assemble a team of folks to engage with the appropriate teams | 19:45 |
| Shamail | user stories | 19:45 |
| Shamail | barrett: +1 | 19:45 |
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| Shamail | the owner of the user stories and the person that engages at the summit can be different people | 19:46 |
| barrett | OK, I think we can change topics which is to talk about how to run Steps 2&3 for the Pilot | 19:46 |
| Shamail | The owner of the user story will effectively be the source for clarifying any questions that may come up as well as leading the BP creation process | 19:46 |
| Shamail | Sounds good | 19:47 |
| barrett | #topic User Story Review/Consolidation/Prioritization | 19:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "User Story Review/Consolidation/Prioritization (Meeting topic: product_team)" | 19:47 | |
| Rockyg | There are also a number of use cases coming out of the DefCore discussion right now. Mostly Nova/Glance with a touch of Neutron related | 19:47 |
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| Shamail | Time check: 13 minutes | 19:47 |
| barrett | Gotcha | 19:48 |
| barrett | Consolidating Use Cases into Epics | 19:48 |
| barrett | Sorry, User Stories... Consider an Epic the same as a Theme | 19:48 |
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| barrett | The proposal is to start with the Themes we used in Vancouver | 19:49 |
| barrett | consolidate User Stories as it makes sense around these, and then identify the themactic groupings for the remaining User Stories | 19:50 |
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| barrett | For the Criteria for Selecting the top User stories for this Pilot Phase | 19:50 |
| barrett | I'm proposing 3 | 19:50 |
| barrett | Cross Project User Stories (requiring BPs in multiple projects) | 19:51 |
| barrett | Addresses needs of multiple market-segments (Enterprise, HPC, Telco, etc) | 19:51 |
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| barrett | Can be implemented in M-development cycle - Though I have some concerns about this one... | 19:51 |
| Shamail | barrett: +1 on all three criteria | 19:52 |
| barrett | With this work completed, we'd take the ordered list to the Cross-project team meeting for review and input to enable us to finalize | 19:52 |
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| barrett | Comments? Suggestions? | 19:53 |
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| Shamail | barrett: I agree with it all | 19:54 |
| cloudrancher | Would the themes allow split into minimum viable, and stretch or are they the bare mininum to be usable | 19:54 |
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| Shamail | what are your concerns with implemented in M? | 19:54 |
| barrett | cloudrancher: I think they would span the entire spectrum | 19:54 |
| barrett | Shamail: Too small of a feature to move the needle... | 19:55 |
| barrett | I'm impatient... :) | 19:55 |
| Shamail | I agree with barrett, the themes would allow for coverage of all areas and we can add a new one if we are missing some | 19:55 |
| Shamail | gotcha barrett | 19:55 |
| Rockyg | That's where the defcore use cases might work. Small work in three projects with big impact | 19:55 |
| barrett | Rockyg: I like it! | 19:56 |
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| Rockyg | The theme for those are usability/compatibility | 19:56 |
| Shamail | Rockyg: +1 | 19:56 |
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| Rockyg | 1) i want to know what my external IP address is | 19:56 |
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| barrett | I'll take the action item to send this out to the ML, and try to assign a timeline or event for the steps.. | 19:57 |
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| Rockyg | 2) I want to just Upload an image (glance v2 api work) | 19:57 |
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| Rockyg | 3) I forget, but it may be images across clouds | 19:57 |
| barrett | #action Carol to send info to ML on consolidation/prioritization/review next steps and time for this Pilot phase | 19:57 |
| Shamail | Sounds good barrett | 19:57 |
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| barrett | Rockyg: Is there a place where we can find these? | 19:58 |
| Shamail | Should I focus on capturing defcore ones before the network segmentation ones? | 19:58 |
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| Rockyg | there are two ML discussions between Monty and John Garbutt. I'll post the links to the ML list | 19:58 |
| barrett | We're almost out of time, I want to remind everyone that the Tokyo session proposals are due 7/15. Let's cover that next week. | 19:59 |
| geoffarnold | OK | 19:59 |
| barrett | Any other opens/reminders before we wrapup? | 19:59 |
| Shamail | nope | 19:59 |
| barrett | going, going... | 20:00 |
| Shamail | take care everyone! | 20:00 |
| barrett | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 29 20:00:13 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| barrett | You too! | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_team/2015/product_team.2015-06-29-19.02.html | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_team/2015/product_team.2015-06-29-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_team/2015/product_team.2015-06-29-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
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