Tuesday, 2015-07-14

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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 14 08:01:58 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:02
lennybHi, Anteaya08:02
anteayahow are you?08:02
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lennybanteaya: ok, thanks. how are you feeling today? You felt not that weel last time08:04
anteayathanks feeling better now08:05
anteayathanks for asking08:05
anteayawhat shall we discuss?08:05
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eantyshevour CI wasn't receiving some events last Friday, and we had small talk with jeblair: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-infra/%23openstack-infra.2015-07-10.log.html#t2015-07-10T18:10:2708:05
lennybI have nothing to discuss08:05
anteayaeantyshev: what was the outcome?08:07
anteayalennyb: thanks08:07
eantyshevhe said that there were 2 connections from Zuul under my CI account, and after some code explorations I think it's normal08:08
anteayait's normal, what is normal?08:09
eantyshevthat zuul process opens 2 simultaneous tcp connections to review.o.o08:09
eantyshevone is for 'gerrit stream-events', and another for 'gerrit query'08:10
anteayaI didn't know that08:10
eantyshevperhaps, I misunderstood, but I don't think that problem was in that08:11
anteayaso gerrit stream events should be getting all the broadcast events08:11
anteayais your system getting all the events again?08:11
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eantyshevyes, now it receives much more08:12
eantyshevcan not be sure in 100%08:12
eantyshevI mean, no problems nwo08:13
anteayathat is true08:13
anteayawhich repo are you testing?08:13
eantyshevI test cinder and os-brick for now08:13
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eantyshevI also make test changes to ci-sandbox, to illustrate this problem08:14
anteayado you use patrickeast's tool to evaluate your system?08:14
anteayathank you for using ci-sandbox08:15
eantyshevso AFAIU it wasn't related to any repo08:15
anteayathat is good to know08:15
eantyshevwhat tool?08:15
lennybanteaya: what tool? :)08:16
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anteaya#link http://ec2-54-67-102-119.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com:5000/?project=openstack%2Fcinder&user=&timeframe=24&start=&end=&page_size=08:17
anteayasorry I had to find the link08:17
anteayathis tool08:17
eantyshevoh, then I do08:17
anteayaoh good08:17
anteayait should tell you if you are missing patches08:18
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anteayait appears you test about half of them08:18
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anteayawould that be accurate, or am I reading the output incorrectly?08:19
eantyshevwe have limited hardware resources, so we trigger on explicit "Virtuozzo Storage CI recheck" and on "Build succeeded" comments by Openstack Jenkins08:19
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anteayayes you seem to report on all the jenkins successes08:21
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anteayaso that is good information to look at08:22
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anteayaanything else you want to say on this topic?08:22
eantyshevno, it works now08:23
anteayaokay great08:23
anteayado we have anything else we want to discuss today?08:23
eantyshevI also want to remind somehow of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148926/08:24
anteayaI asked in -infra for a review08:27
anteayabest I can do08:27
eantyshevthank you,08:27
anteayathanks for mentioning it08:27
anteayaand for creating the patch in the first place08:27
anteayaanything else for today?08:28
eantyshevAnd one more question08:28
* anteaya listens08:28
anteayalennyb: thanks for the review :)08:28
eantyshevThere's ongoing activity on zuulv3: https://review.openstack.org/16437108:28
anteayathere is a spec and it is being reviewed/developed, yes08:29
eantyshevHow soon is it expected to be implemented?08:29
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anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164371/08:29
anteayano idea08:29
anteayajim is pretty good at writing software but it depends on timing for other things08:30
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anteayamight be this release might be next release08:30
anteayahave you reviewed the spec?08:30
anteayawould be good if you do08:30
eantyshevI did read it, but afraid it covers too much scope for me08:31
anteayaconsider offering a comment on the parts you reviewed08:32
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anteayain the comment state the sections you reviewed and offer your thoughts08:32
anteaya#link http://anteaya.info/blog/2013/03/21/reviewing-an-openstack-patch/08:33
anteayaI wrote this blog post some time ago with some suggestions along those lines08:33
anteayaif you would like to read it08:33
eantyshevI will, thank you08:34
anteayathanks for mentioning it08:34
anteayaanything else to discuss today?08:34
eantyshevit is fine for now08:35
anteayaand nothing else from you, lennyb?08:35
lennybanteaya: yeap08:35
anteayawell always nice to talk with you08:35
anteayathanks for your continued attendance and participation08:36
anteayaenjoy the rest of the day08:36
lennyball: have a nice day to08:36
anteayaand see you next week08:36
anteayalennyb: :)08:36
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:36
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 14 08:36:40 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:36
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-07-14-08.01.html08:36
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-07-14-08.01.txt08:36
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Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 14 13:00:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
Qiminghello, guys13:00
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Qiminghi, xinhui and lisa13:01
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Qiminghi, jruano13:01
Qimingeveryone please add agenda items to the wiki, if you can access it, :)13:02
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QimingI was able to add some using a machine located in the states13:02
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Qimingfirst thing I'd like to update is ... IRC log13:03
Qimingwith the merge of this patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196993/13:03
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Qimingnow we have IRC logs, ;)13:03
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yanyanhucool :)13:04
Qimingit's pretty nice13:04
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jruanovery good13:04
lkarmawesome it looks good13:05
Qiming#topic liberty-2 milestone targets13:05
*** openstack changes topic to "liberty-2 milestone targets (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:05
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Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-liberty-workitems13:05
Qimingso far we have made goo progress on the work items13:05
Qimingyanyanhu has proposed some test cases for the policies13:06
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Qimingmost of them are already merged13:06
jruanoi have a few more test cases that i will add13:06
jruanoworking on those now13:06
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Qimingthat would be great, jruano13:06
yanyanhuI will try to work on test case for some drivers after finishing policy realted ones13:07
Qimingdriver test cases would be much easier considering the code is not very complex13:07
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yanyanhuso hopefully, we can finish most of the unit tests by the end of liberty2 cycle13:08
Qimingwhen haiwei is back, hopefully we can get the first phase exception handling landed as well13:08
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Qimingyep, a lot of work, but I'm pretty sure we can make it, :)13:09
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yanyanhuyes :)13:09
Qimingstarting tomorrow, I am gonna focus on the scaling policy rework13:09
Qiminghopefully, we can get something for review by next time we meet13:10
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Qimingwhen we were discussing the action triggering mechanism with the heat team13:10
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Qimingthere were suggestions to turn to zaqar based notification13:10
QimingI don't think we can make it by liberty-213:11
Qimingwe can postpone that to liberty-313:11
Qimingfor liberty-2, we will make webhook based triggering work13:11
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jruanoyes, zaqar support would seem like a big effort13:12
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Qimingmy first experience with it was .... not a pleasant one, to be honest13:12
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QimingI tried their test case by following the instructions in README, it didn't work, there were some multi-processing problem I think13:13
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Qimingthe advantage of having zaqar support is that it allows the trigger be sent from anywhere ...13:13
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Qiming#topic documentation - getting started doc13:14
*** openstack changes topic to "documentation - getting started doc (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:14
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Qimingnow we have the getting started doc covering most frequent operations13:15
Qimingwe don't have docs for events, actions and webhooks, I'm leaving that for future work because we may revise the webhook flow somehow13:16
Qimingfor events and actions, we only support listing and show operations, pretty straightforward13:16
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lixinhuido we have guidence on policy side?13:17
Qimingmay jump back on to this when I'm stuck by the scaling policy work13:17
Qimingyes, lixinhui13:17
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lixinhuigood to know, qiming, I will try more on policies in next days13:17
Qiminglixinhui, doc on policy types: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/200596/13:18
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Qimingdoc on policy objects: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/200801/13:18
Qimingdoc on policy bindings: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/201009/13:18
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Qimingplease feel free to -1 when seeing something wrong, unclear ...13:19
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Qiming#topic update on node placement experiments13:20
*** openstack changes topic to "update on node placement experiments (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:20
Qiminglixinhui, this is yours13:20
lixinhuiI am running senlin on vsphere nova driver13:20
lixinhuiand target to build some demo on smart auto-scaling on vsphere vm placement13:21
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lixinhuifirst step of this is to enable hint in senlin13:22
Qimingso the emphasis is on scaling or placement? we are currently treating them as two different policy types13:22
Qimingthat is about placement, right?13:23
yanyanhuem, we have two different polices for them respectively13:23
lixinhuibut I think the two types can work together?13:23
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Qimingcool, we only have a sketch for the placement policy at the moment13:23
Qimingyes, it was designed to be work separately and cowork together13:24
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Qimingeven for a non-scaling cluster, you may still want to control node placement13:24
yanyanhuso nova vsphere driver can understand the scheduler_hint from Nova and use it to guide the placement of virtual machine?13:25
lixinhuiyes, qiming, we meed discusss more about the design13:25
lixinhuiright, yanyan13:25
Qimingokay, it would be great if you can check in your current work, then we can use it as the starting point13:26
lixinhuifor demo purpose, we can use server_group to simulate but in future vsphere team should expose more functions from driver to make this work beter13:26
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Qimingis vsphere using the server_group api from nova?13:27
lixinhuiWill do it, qiming13:27
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lixinhuiit can work, qiming, I tried it by nova cli13:27
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yanyanhuthis will be very good use case for the preliminary version of placement policy13:28
lixinhuiYes, Yanyan:_)13:28
Qimingby the way, Carolyn from IBM has proposed something about cross-az, cross-region placement support in Heat13:28
Qimingwe may need to support those use cases as well13:28
lixinhuihow for heat to support the two placement?13:29
Qimingspec here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/179250/13:29
lixinhuiwhat is design difference13:29
Qimingcode here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/116139/13:29
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Qimingit is an important feature for managing a group of resources13:30
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Qimingbut implementing it in Heat is a little bit cumbersome13:30
Qimingfor example, the resource being scaled could be anything13:31
Qimingwe can limit the PROFILE_TYPE to 'os.nova.server' in senlin, and see if it works as expected13:31
jruanoyes... this request feels like something that should exist in senlin. separate from heat13:32
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Qimingright. if we can support it well, when we add senlin resource type back to Heat, users still can enjoy this feature13:32
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Qimingthe problem as I see it, is the policy itself13:33
Qimingyou can base your placement decision on a thousand different factors ...13:33
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Qimingloading balancing, energy efficiency, fault isolation, resource cost .... to name a few13:34
yanyanhuso maybe like our lb_policy design, we need to narrow down our scope in the first step13:34
Qimingyes, for "built-in" policy types, we can just support one or two scenarios13:35
Qimingusers know best what they want13:35
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Qimingthey can provide their own policy plugins13:35
jruanoneed some sort of importance ranking, or prioritization attribute13:35
jruanouser defined13:35
Qimingyes, relative priority among policies of the same type, policies of different types13:36
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Qimingthat would be a huge design space, we cannot dictate the usage scenario13:36
Qimingso, back to your experiment, lixinhui13:37
Qimingit sounds pretty important to Senlin13:37
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lixinhuiyes, firstly, we have to enable scheluler_hints13:38
Qimingplease let us know if you need more hands and/or eyes on that13:38
Qimingokay, let's move on13:38
lixinhuiI definitely will need help from all of you13:38
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Qiming#topic update on interlock with TOSCA team13:39
*** openstack changes topic to "update on interlock with TOSCA team (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:39
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Qimingjruano helped bridge us to the TOSCA team last week13:39
Qimingwe had some very interesting discussions around the policy and policy type support13:39
jruanoyes so a big use case tosca is looking at right now is node updates13:39
Qimingboth from a standard standingpoint and from senlin's implementation perspective13:40
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Qimingit was very timely a discussion13:40
jruanovery much... my colleague matt had some discussions with customers last week, and they are all very interested in senlin13:41
Qimingthat sounds nice13:41
jruanopolicies are very important to them in terms of cloud management13:41
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jruanoso a first step may be proving out a node update modeled in tosca, with senlin as the engine13:42
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jruanoi will keep this moving forward and report updates back to the team13:43
Qimingthanks, jruano13:44
Qimingwe will keep an eye on the tosca standard, be conformant to it when possible13:44
Qimingjruano, you will set up a regular call for us with the TOSCA team, right?13:44
jruanoi will do that13:45
jruanoa checkpoint call13:45
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Qimingokay, it would be great if we can read some WIP documents they have13:45
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jruanosure i can send out a link to the team13:46
Qiming#topic open discussions13:47
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:47
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lixinhuiJruano, could you help to include me inside the maillist? lxinhui@vmware.com13:47
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jruanowill do lixinhui13:48
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yanyanhuhi, I think maybe we need to further cleanse the setup progress of Senlin service to make its installation easy13:49
Qimingguys, if you haven't "watch" senlin and python-senlinclient projects in your gerrit setting, please do so13:49
yanyanhuespecially by using devstack13:49
QimingTBH, I haven't tried that yet13:49
lixinhuiby devstack13:50
Qimingthe devstack plugin was contributed by elynn13:50
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yanyanhuyes, I think most of us meet some problems when first time setup senlin  ;)13:50
yanyanhumaybe this can be a work item targets on libert-313:51
lixinhuiyes, I know, I works well13:51
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lixinhuiIt works well13:51
Qiminglixinhui, you have tried it?13:51
yanyanhuI also haven't tested it yet...13:51
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jruanooh it works great for me13:52
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yanyanhuthis is great :)13:52
Qimingcool, I had a link to the README.rst file in the getting started doc: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/senlin/tree/doc/source/getting_started/install.rst#n2513:52
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yanyanhuI will also try it later13:52
Qimingany other outstanding issues?13:53
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yanyanhunot yet. But I guess we might meet some after we start testing cluster scaling/updating with scaling/lb policies attched13:55
Qimingokay, future bugs for future meetings13:55
yanyanhusure :)13:55
QimingI think we can release this channel now13:55
Qimingthanks for participating13:55
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:56
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 14 13:55:59 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:56
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-07-14-13.00.html13:56
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-07-14-13.00.txt13:56
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-07-14-13.00.log.html13:56
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yushiroHi , all14:00
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mesteryLets get this party started!14:00
mestery#startmeeting networking14:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 14 14:00:57 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:01
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda14:01
mestery#topic Announcements14:01
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*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"14:01
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mestery#info Liberty-2 is approaching us at a fast clip, slated for approx. July 2914:01
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule14:01
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mesteryThat's the main announcement I've got, does anyone have anything else?14:02
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mesteryOK, lets move right into the juicy bugs14:02
mesteryWe have a few of those14:02
mestery#topic Bugs14:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:02
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mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/146543414:02
openstackLaunchpad bug 1465434 in neutron "DVR issues with supporting multiple subnets per network on DVR routers - PortbindingContext does not have the status." [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Carl Baldwin (carl-baldwin)14:02
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mesterySwami has a patch posted for this one14:03
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mesteryhaleyb carl_baldwin: Have you guys had a chance to review this one yet?14:03
carl_baldwinI think we’re close to merging this one.14:03
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mesterycarl_baldwin: Will this one fix the DVR job by chance?14:03
mesteryIt passes it I see14:03
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mesteryI see yamamoto is also commenting on this one14:04
mesterycarl_baldwin yamamoto: Can you two work with Swami to get this in shape and merged this week?14:04
haleybyes, there were some comments last night and it will need an update, but it's close.  i'm commenting again now14:04
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mesteryWould be good to get DVR stable so we can monitor it and MAKE IT VOTING!14:04
mesterythanks haleyb!14:04
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mestery#action carl_baldwin haleyb yamamoto to work with Swami on 1465434 to merge it, enabling us to watch the DVR job for a week and MAKE IT VOTING.14:04
mesteryNext up14:05
openstackLaunchpad bug 1468433 in neutron "Pre reference plugin code movement" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Cedric Brandily (cbrandily)14:05
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mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/146843314:05
mesteryI filed this one, and a lot of patches have gone in here14:05
mesteryI see it's assigned to ZZelle now, who isn't in this channel14:05
ihrachyshkawhat's missing?14:05
mesteryihrachyshka: Exactly14:05
mesteryI don't know why ZZelle assigned it to himself14:05
mesteryI'll comment in the bug since he's not here.14:06
yamamotothe bug has a lot of feature branch commits. which is the real one to look?14:06
ihrachyshkamestery, it was infra, some patch was sent for review that mentioned the bug I guess14:06
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mesteryihrachyshka: Ah, ok14:06
salv-orlandomestery: probably he just pushed a patch trargeting it14:06
mesteryYeah, I think so too14:06
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mesteryihrachyshka: I think we can close this one now, do you agree?14:07
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ihrachyshkanothing that I see now14:07
ihrachyshkaI mean, no work I see not done14:07
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mesteryNext up14:08
mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/147018614:08
openstackLaunchpad bug 1470186 in neutron "Pylint 1.4.1 broken due to new logilab.common 1.0.0 release" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Assaf Muller (amuller)14:08
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mesteryLooks like amuller's series of patches are in flight here14:08
mestery#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197226/14:08
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mestery#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197227/14:09
mesterymarkmcclain: If you're around, could use your g+r help on 197226. :)14:09
mesteryOK, next up14:09
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mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/146117214:09
openstackLaunchpad bug 1461172 in neutron "neutron.tests.functional.agent.test_l3_agent.MetadataL3AgentTestCase.test_access_to_metadata_proxy times out intermittently" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Assaf Muller (amuller)14:09
mesteryAlso amuller's :)14:10
ihrachyshkahe is the test blametenant14:10
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mesteryAnd finally:14:11
mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/146666314:11
openstackLaunchpad bug 1466663 in neutron "radvd exits -1 intermittently in test_ha_router_process_ipv6_subnets_to_existing_port functional test" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Sridhar Gaddam (sridhargaddam)14:11
mesteryWith review:14:11
mestery#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193624/14:11
SridharGmestery: I've updated my comments. I would appreciate if other reviewers take a look at it.14:11
mesterySridharG: Yes, looks like you replied to Assaf. Given his comment, I'd like to see a reply from him before this merges as well.14:11
ihrachyshkajust asked him on #openstack-neutron14:12
mesteryWe have 2 bugs tagged as "linuxbridge-gate-parity", lets cover thsoe now.14:12
mesterythanks ihrachyshka14:12
SridharGihrachyshka: sure, thanks.14:12
mesteryFirst up14:12
mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/131201614:12
openstackLaunchpad bug 1312016 in neutron "nova libvirtError: Unable to add bridge brqxxx-xx port tapxxx-xx: Device or resource busy" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Sean M. Collins (scollins)14:12
mesterysc68cal: ^^^^14:12
mestery#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193485/14:13
mesteryihrachyshka: That review is yours it appears :)14:13
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mesteryThis one looks like it's actively being worked on at least14:14
sc68calYep - although my updated patches are probably bad14:14
ihrachyshkamestery,  sc68cal was kind to take the faulty patch from me14:14
ihrachyshkaok, we now have two faulty versions14:14
mestery2 wrongs make a right?14:14
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sc68calso, I'll be poking at it a little longer14:15
mesteryThanks sc68cal and ihrachyshka14:15
mesteryI don't see emagana around, so lets skip docs today and head right into the juicy part of the meeting14:15
mesteryI'll try not to wake anyone up as we finish the meeting.14:15
mestery#topic Pecan WSGI Refactor14:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Pecan WSGI Refactor (Meeting topic: networking)"14:15
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mesteryblogan: Hi there! Around?14:15
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bloganmestery: yes14:15
mesteryblogan: Excellent!14:15
mesteryCan you update the team on what's going on here?14:16
mesteryStatus updatE?14:16
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bloganbasically just gettin the right master merges commits in so it passes the checks, but the reviews up now will still require some more additional work to get service plugins working14:17
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mesterySo the plan is to get service plugins working, merge back to master and create a job which uses the pecan WSGI14:17
mesteryStablize that, make it voting, then switch?14:17
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bloganmestery: i believe there are other things that probably need to get working as well, like notifications i believe14:18
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mesteryblogan: OK, could you and kevinbenton put an etherpad or devref together with what's left?14:18
bloganmestery: sure14:18
mestery#action blogan and kevinbenton to put an etherpad or devref together to track remaining pecan work and plan of record14:19
mesterythanks blogan!14:19
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mesteryAny questions for blogan on the pecan work?14:19
bloganbut yeah once we get those gaps closed then the steps you outlined sound appropriate14:19
salv-orlandoblogan: I gave you my first review!14:20
salv-orlandoand obviopusly it's a -1 ;)14:20
blogansalv-orlando: yes! it wouldn't be appropriate if it was a +1 :)14:20
mesterysalv-orlando: I hope it also included your charming pedantry :)14:20
salv-orlandomestery: lots of that14:20
mesteryHeh :)14:20
ihrachyshkaI die for it. it's so scarse lately14:20
mesteryihrachyshka: Be careful what you wish for14:21
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ihrachyshkaRIGHT, NOT FOR QOS14:21
mesteryAnd thanks to blogan and kevinbenton for working on the pecan switch. :)14:21
mestery#topic QoS14:21
*** openstack changes topic to "QoS (Meeting topic: networking)"14:21
mesteryihrachyshka: Speaking of Qos ...14:21
mesteryihrachyshka ajo: Can you give us an update on this now?14:21
mesteryWhere are things at?14:21
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ihrachyshkaajo, go ahead, stage is yours14:22
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ihrachyshkahm. ok, I'll back up ajo. So we are working on the feature, slowly but steadily.14:22
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ihrachyshkawe sent a plan for merge back setting how we see the approaching merge-back: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/069188.html14:23
ihrachyshka#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/069188.html14:23
ihrachyshkawe also have an email setting immediate priorities for those who track branch: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/069234.html14:23
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ihrachyshka#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/069234.html14:23
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ajoihrachyshka, thanks, sorry, I was totally off-stage writing devref ;)14:23
* ajo reads14:24
ihrachyshkawe have almost all functional pieces on server side in, and some agent pieces14:24
ihrachyshkawe will work closely with amuller to get fullstack before merge-back14:24
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mesteryajo ihrachyshka: I know armax wanted to check out how you were using callbacks here, I spoke with him on this last week, I'll poke him to review those portions soon14:24
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ihrachyshkaand ajo is working on devref ^^ that would provide more than enough details about the feature and its design14:24
ajoyes, that's going to provide a lot of context on how we're doing that14:24
mesteryThis is all really good stuff!14:24
ihrachyshkamestery, yes, that's one of priorities set by ajo14:25
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* regXboi pads in with a surprised look on his face14:25
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ajothe last message we sent to list mike kolesnik and me can be ignored for now, we're not going to need so many callbacks14:25
ihrachyshkaso, all in all, lots of cool bits to crunch, and we look forward to right after L2 when we want to consider the feature for merge14:25
ajojust AFTER_READ which will be overruled by the new armax design on that14:25
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ajoI want to say, ihrachyshka is doing an amazing job forward to automate any future versioned object usage in neutron14:26
regXboisorry for being late folks - quick question - where are the rate calculations done?  at the ingress port, I assume?14:26
mesteryajo: That's because ihrachyshka is awesome, I've already told him that too :)14:26
ajohe is :)14:26
ajoregXboi, it's all port egress for now14:26
ajoregXboi, we may want to support ingress in the future, and other type of limitings with guarantees14:27
ajobut one bit at a time :)14:27
ihrachyshkaok, that's how 'making project hard to understand' sounds like14:27
mesterySlow and steady14:27
ihrachyshka"automate any future versioned object usage"14:27
ajoregXboi: egress from the VM perspective14:27
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ajosorry :D14:27
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ajoI was meaning, "make it super easy and clean"14:28
regXboiajo: thanks - there is a spec running around talking about replicating packets across ports and I was worried about how it might interact with this14:28
ihrachyshkaI think we should leave the stage unless there are more questions/concerns for qos14:28
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mesteryihrachyshka: Agreed14:28
mesteryThanks for the update folks!14:28
mesteryregXboi: Comment further on reviews or in #openstack-neutron with ihrachyshka and ajo14:28
mesteryMoving along in the agenda14:28
regXboimestery: no worries14:28
mestery#topic Flavor Framework14:28
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*** openstack changes topic to "Flavor Framework (Meeting topic: networking)"14:28
mestery#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139758/14:29
mesteryI'm hopeful that this will merge this week when dougwig blogan and others look at it while at the mid-cycle for services in Seattle.14:29
mesteryI've been reviewing it and it's in good shape, thanks to madhu for his work on it!14:29
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mesteryI encourage others to review as well14:29
markmcclainmestery: I've taken a 1st look and will review it this week too14:30
mesterymarkmcclain: Sweet, thanks!14:30
mesteryThe rest of the agenda looks a little old, so lets move on to ...14:31
mestery#topic Open Discussion14:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)"14:31
markmcclainI've added +2 to pylint update14:31
regXboimestery: who is the pep8 expert?14:31
ihrachyshkaone thing I had in mind for other folks... online-schema-migrations spec is just merged: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192937/14:31
* regXboi wants to examine the possibility of getting rid of magic constants 14:32
ihrachyshkaand there is neutron patch hopefully going in in the future: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194198/14:32
yushiromestery, I've already updated my RFE - bug.  I'd like to ask some review :-)14:32
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mesteryregXboi: There are many, you could talk to gus among many :)14:32
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anteayamestery: can we talk about the get-me-a-network spec implimentation a minute? it would be nice to have something to admire a nova mid-cycle14:32
yushiromestery, RFE - Packet logging API for Neutron - https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/146836614:32
openstackLaunchpad bug 1468366 in neutron "RFE - Packet logging API for Neutron" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Yushiro FURUKAWA (y-furukawa-2)14:32
ihrachyshkaand it will influence everyone who has migrations a bit, so please take a look to be prepared14:32
mesteryyushiro: The drivers team will be reviewing RFE bugs in the drivers meeting following this meeting (carl_baldwin to lead as I'm out of the office the rest of the day following this meeting)14:32
vikramFeedback for flow-classifier14:33
mesteryanteaya: Yes! I think we'll want to make sure haleyb is here too14:33
anteayais here, at nova mid-cycle?14:33
yushiromestery, I see. thank you for your reply.14:33
mesteryvikram: We tried to talk flow-classifier last week but you weren't here :( If you're here now, lets do that post Get-Me-A-Network14:33
mesteryanteaya: No, in this meeting14:33
vikrammestery: thanks14:33
mesteryanteaya: carl_baldwin and I and sc68cal will be at nova mid-cycle14:33
anteayahaleyb: are you here?14:33
anteayaI thought I saw you14:33
haleybyes, i'm here14:33
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mesteryanteaya: Please go ahead14:34
anteayaany thoughts on implementation for the group?14:34
salv-orlandoto tell that I'm interested in a RFE I do have to leave a comment, is that right?14:34
mesterysalv-orlando: That sounds right14:34
xgermanwe need reviews14:34
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anteayawe mostly I just wanted to know where we are so we have a chance at having something for next week14:34
anteayahaleyb: do we have anything for anyone to look at?14:34
salv-orlandothanks mestery. I was just wondering whether actually subscribing to the bug makes sense at all, since every neutron bug has hundreds of automatic subscrivers14:35
anteayaor an idea of when they might have something to look at?14:35
mesterysalv-orlando: IT may, depending on how good your email filters work. :)14:35
yushirocarl_baldwin, hi.  currently,  I've update my RFE-bug.  would you confirm later ? ;) https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/146836614:35
openstackLaunchpad bug 1468366 in neutron "RFE - Packet logging API for Neutron" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Yushiro FURUKAWA (y-furukawa-2)14:35
pc_mmestery: I have a Dev Ref for RFE. Is it on the list for review by Driver's team? (#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191944/)14:35
carl_baldwinyushiro: pc_m:  We’ll have a look.14:36
mesterypc_m: Your bug is already approved14:36
regXboimestery: before we break up - i've got another potential elephant - use of shell14:36
haleybwhen i had talked to people at the mid-cycle (like mark) we were going to need some way for nova to indicate it is making a "special" request to neutron, so i need to talk this over with him again as to what that looks like14:36
mesteryIt's "In Progress" see comment #814:36
haleybanteaya: ^^14:36
pc_mmestery: This is DevRef commit for it.14:36
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mesterypc_m: We'll review as normal14:36
yushirocarl_baldwin, thank you! and, I've already implemented about my RFE-bug :-)14:36
anteayamarkmcclain: when do you have time to talk to haleyb to help him get what he needs?14:37
salv-orlandomestery: sure, but I was talking about the subscriber list on the bug report. Still, it's ajust a curiosity, let's leave it aside. A comment is all we need.14:37
mesterypc_m: In fact, I've already reviewed that one in fact14:37
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pc_mmestery: Posing several approaches and seeking review. Wondering if on the list to be reviewed - be up since 7/814:37
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haleybanteaya: i feel there are too many talking at once now14:37
mesteryI agree14:37
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anteayahaleyb: yes14:37
anteayamarkmcclain: are you still about?14:37
* salv-orlando thinks the main topic now is "get me a bloody network"14:38
mestery#topic Get Me a Network14:38
mesteryFolks, lets talk "Get Me a Network" now14:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Get Me a Network (Meeting topic: networking)"14:38
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mesteryAnd move on to something else next14:38
anteayamestery: thanks14:38
yushiropc_m, thank you :-)14:38
mesteryanteaya haleyb: Continue14:38
yushiromestery,  thanks14:38
anteayawaiting to hear from markmcclain14:38
pc_mmestery: Yes, you've looked at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191944/, but current version is awaiting review.14:38
markmcclainanteaya: yes... I can try to catch up with haleyb tomorrow14:38
anteayahaleyb: does tomorrow work for you?14:38
haleybanteaya: yes, that works14:38
anteayaand I will check in with you both on Thursday14:39
anteayaand thank you14:39
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anteayamestery: got what I needed14:39
haleybi will send an email to mark about my thoughts14:39
anteayalet's move on14:39
mesteryhaleyb anteaya markmcclain: Thanks!14:39
anteayahaleyb: can I get cc'd on that please14:39
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mesterymoving along14:39
mestery#topic Flow Classifier14:39
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mesteryvikram: You're up14:39
anteayahaleyb: just to follow along14:39
vikramI have posted a link "https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/flow-classifier" for comments14:39
mestery#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/flow-classifier14:39
vikramneed feedback :-)14:40
mestery#info Looking for feedback on flow classifier etherpad14:40
vikramthat's all ..14:40
mesteryThanks vikram!14:40
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mesteryWho else had something to cover so I change the topic?14:41
mestery18.5 minutes left or so14:41
regXboimestery: shell?14:41
mestery#topic Shell Usage14:41
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mesteryregXboi: Floor is yours :)14:41
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regXboiis anybody else concerned about how much we use shell underneath the code base?14:41
mesteryMost of us are14:41
mesteryYou're talking in things like the agent?14:42
regXboithat's going to be a very big impediment to scale14:42
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regXboiI'm talking prettty much everywhere14:42
mesteryE.g. in ip_lib and ovs_lib?14:42
mesteryDo you want to replace it with an Apache 2 licensded python library?14:42
mesteryWhich uses netlink or something like it?14:42
neiljerramSometimes the issue is licensing.14:42
haleybpyroute2 ?14:42
neiljerramE.g. python-iptables is GPL, I believe14:42
regXboiyes, I think we need to spin something to look at replacing it14:42
ihrachyshkafor ovs_lib, it's not the case IF you use native implementation14:42
regXboiit may depend on the particular component14:43
mesteryLike this? https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyroute214:43
markmcclainregXboi: I think there's a difference in just using shell and how we're using it14:43
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regXboimarkmcclain: I sort of agree -14:43
mesteryihrachyshka: That's only for the portions talking ovsdb, we still use shell for the openflow bits, right?14:43
mesterye.g. ovs-ofctl?14:43
regXboimarkmcclain: I'm thinking this is yet another refactor staring us in the face,  but I'm not yet sure just how big it is14:44
ihrachyshkawell, I'm not the best candidate to answer to it :) otherwiseguy ^^14:44
markmcclainregXboi: it's sizeable14:44
mesteryI think that's the case14:44
regXboimarkmcclain, mestery - I'm thinking that may be something to look at for M14:44
mesteryyamamoto's patch to move us to ryu would eliminate the ovs-ofctl usage as well14:44
yamamotomestery: yes14:44
* otherwiseguy looks14:44
mesteryyamamoto: Do you have a link for that patch so regXboi can eyheball it?14:45
yamamoto#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153946/14:45
* regXboi looks for his eyhes14:45
regXboiyamamoto: thanks, I've got it queued for review later this morning14:45
mesterythanks yamamoto14:45
yamamoto#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/154354/14:46
regXboimestery: the other thing is the magic constant issue14:46
otherwiseguyThere is also the privilege separation patch, which last I heard was going to be an oslo project? Haven't looked in a while.14:46
regXboibut I think we can do that offline/another day14:46
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regXboimarkmcclain, mestery: would it make sense to catalog the shell usage in an etherpad to scope the size of what we are looking at?14:47
mesteryregXboi: Please do14:47
mestery#action regXboi to categorize shell usage in etherpad14:47
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mesteryOK, I think that's it for this week folks.14:48
* regXboi plants foot in quicksand :)14:48
john-davidgeI’d like to raise #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1471316 if there’s time14:48
openstackLaunchpad bug 1471316 in neutron "_get_subnetpool_id does not return None when a cidr is specified and a subnetpool_id isn't." [High,In progress] - Assigned to John Davidge (john-davidge)14:48
* mestery looks14:48
john-davidgeConsensus since last week seems to be that this isn’t a bug, but an intened API change14:48
mesterycarl_baldwin: ^^^^14:48
john-davidgePersonally I think that’s going to be confusing forusers, but I’m willing to accept the consensus14:49
amotoki_I dont' think it is a good idea to make some field visible/invisible conditionally.14:49
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carl_baldwinjohn-davidge: I looked at the tables on both the bug and the spec before the week-end and then had to leave it.  Need to come back to it.14:49
john-davidgeThat said, I’ve proposed a fix to devstack to account for the change #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/199038/14:49
mesteryThanks carl_baldwin. john-davidge, you're in good hands14:50
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carl_baldwinamotoki: Could you elaborate with a comment in the bug report?14:50
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mesteryOK, thanks folks!14:51
amotoki_carl_baldwin: yes. am following the discussion14:51
regXboibye all14:51
mesteryKeep the reviews coming as we near Liberty-2!14:51
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:51
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 14 14:51:14 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:51
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-07-14-14.00.html14:51
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-07-14-14.00.txt14:51
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-07-14-14.00.log.html14:51
yushirogood night14:51
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carl_baldwinIt took me a minute to confirm which meeting room.15:02
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* carl_baldwin now confirming what name to use with startmeeting15:03
amotoki_it is a correct channel http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Neutron_drivers_Meeting15:03
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carl_baldwinamotoki_: Yes, the page has two channels and times listed.  I didn’t see the second one until now.15:04
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carl_baldwin#startmeeting neutron-drivers15:04
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 14 15:04:43 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is carl_baldwin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:04
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)"15:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers'15:04
carl_baldwin#topic wiki15:05
*** openstack changes topic to "wiki (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)"15:05
carl_baldwin#action carl_baldwin will fix up the wiki after the meeting to show the correct time and channel.15:05
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carl_baldwinkevinbenton: dougwig: ping15:05
carl_baldwinamotoki_: Just the two of us from the drivers team so far.  :)15:06
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carl_baldwin#topic Get me a Network15:06
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carl_baldwinhaleyb: sc68cal: Are you around?15:06
carl_baldwin#link https://review.openstack.org/19680315:06
haleybcarl_baldwin: in three places at once :)15:06
sc68calcarl_baldwin: looking15:06
amotoki_haleyb: :-)15:07
haleybthat looks like the dvr patch15:07
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haleyboh, it's not15:07
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amotoki_it was merged. I just wonders where we are collecting infomration.15:07
carl_baldwinLooks like it was approved.  Do we need to discuss it further here?15:08
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sc68calI'm good with it15:08
carl_baldwinamotoki_: What sort of information?  Design?15:08
haleybi need to work on the RFE, but wanted to discuss with mark mcclain about some options15:08
amotoki_carl_baldwin: which blueprint? which bug?15:08
-amotoki_- just looking for links15:09
carl_baldwinhaleyb: Is the rfe filed?  If so, do you have URL?15:09
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haleybcarl_baldwin: no, it's not filed yet15:09
amotoki_we need to have a RFE bug to track the progress.15:10
amotoki_haleyb: could you file it?15:10
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haleybamotoki: i will do it by tomorrow15:10
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carl_baldwinhaleyb: Thanks.15:11
amotoki_haleyb: thanks15:11
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carl_baldwin#topic Segmented, L3-Only routed networks15:11
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carl_baldwinI feel like we got good consensus on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19681215:12
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carl_baldwinneiljerram: Do you have the link handy to yours?15:12
neiljerramJust a mo...15:12
amotoki_carl_baldwin: i could not find time to review it last week. will look it.15:12
neiljerramcarl_baldwin: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198439/15:12
* kevinbenton is watching meeting on phone 15:13
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sc68calneiljerram: I saw the conversation posted in the comments between you and carl_baldwin - the takeaway I got was that the implementation will differ, but does it have to differ all the way up into the API?15:14
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neiljerramsc68cal: I don't think we know that yet.  But certainly the use cases differ a bit.15:15
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sc68calnibalizer: thanks - I guess I want to at least keep it to one kob or dial to cover both your usecases, if at all possible15:15
neiljerramsc68cal: Well I'm personally absolutely open to that.15:16
* sc68cal has regrets sometimes about the two ipv6 attrs15:16
neiljerramsc68cal: Ah yes, indeed, I wondered about those :-)15:16
carl_baldwinsc68cal: I think that knob is the network type.  Each of our proposals uses a different provider network type to distinguish.15:16
carl_baldwinThe way my proposal models segments with Neutron networks doesn’t seem to make sense for a pure L3 network.15:17
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carl_baldwinIs there more you might suggest?15:17
* sc68cal is pulling up carl_baldwin's spec15:17
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carl_baldwinneiljerram: Is there an rfe filed for this?  My quick glance over the list didn’t see one.15:18
neiljerramsc68cal: But I'm concerned we're getting slightly ahead of ourselves...  In this meeting, what I'd really appreciate is just a decision on whether I can continue work on my use case, and if so in what form (a spec?)15:18
neiljerramYes, there is an RFE...15:18
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amotoki_i haven't follow both of them, but it seems we need a bug for neiljerram case and if possible we need to coordinate both15:18
openstackLaunchpad bug 1472704 in neutron "Support networks that work through routing instead of bridging" [Undecided,New]15:18
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markmcclainhate to be the bearer of bad news, but as spec'd this will break lots of apis15:19
* carl_baldwin would’ve found it had I searched for routing instead of routed.15:19
carl_baldwinmarkmcclain: elaborate?15:19
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carl_baldwinmarkmcclain: One or the other or both?  In what way?15:20
markmcclainthe front network is supposed to hide the backing networks15:20
markmcclainbut teh port info object will have the backing networks as the network_id15:20
markmcclainso tooling will break where it's trying to find the network_id15:21
carl_baldwinkevinbenton: dougwig: amotoki_: BTW, did we ever write down a decoder for the various rfe bug statuses and other bug fields?15:21
kevinbentonNot that I know of15:21
markmcclaineven if we lie in the response and return the front net-id it will break the internals of many plugins15:21
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carl_baldwinmarkmcclain: The network still exists.  The only thing that hides it is the owner is admin and it is not shared.  Do the plugins expect it to be visible to the tenant?15:22
markmcclainotherwise when I do port-list as a tenant I think I'm getting bad data15:23
markmcclainbecause there is no way to correlate the port to a network15:23
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kevinbentonSo main issue is that we lose whatever parent network the person requested?15:24
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carl_baldwinmarkmcclain: Please add that feedback to the review and we can discuss further.  This had crossed my mind and we should discuss it more.15:24
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kevinbentoncarl_baldwin: check out _model_query in the base plugin15:26
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kevinbentoncarl_baldwin: that's the bit that scopes db queries to tenants15:27
carl_baldwinLet’s add this feedback to the review and continue there.15:27
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kevinbentoncarl_baldwin: which lots of plugins use15:27
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carl_baldwinWe also need more input on neiljerram ’s rfe, especially how it relates to this one.  amotoki_:  will you review them?  sc68cal: Will you try to elaborate on what you think needs to improve?15:29
amotoki_carl_baldwin: sure15:30
neiljerramamotoki_: Thanks15:30
carl_baldwinWe’ll discuss again next week and collecting some more thoughts.15:30
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neiljerramShall I put up a Gerrit job as a spec, though?15:30
neiljerramI think that's probably a more useful format than an RFE bug?15:31
amotoki_neiljerram: what do you mean? elaborate?15:32
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carl_baldwinkevinbenton: amotoki_:  Would a spec help?  spec, devref?  I’m confused about what the process should be myself.15:32
amotoki_carl_baldwin: me too. we need to calrify we use neutron-sepcs or devref to discuss details.15:33
neiljerramamotoki_: Well, so far I've followed a slightly confused process here.  I began as a devref, because that's what Carl's similar spec was.15:33
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sc68calcarl_baldwin: I think your point about it just being a type inside the provider attrs is correct15:33
sc68calso I think my concern is addressed15:33
neiljerramNeutron process is to file an RFE, but I think part of the motivation there is to allow folk to describe _what_ they want when they don't yet know _how_ to achieve that.15:34
amotoki_neiljerram: good point.15:34
neiljerramIn my case, I already have a good idea how to achieve it, so suspect that a spec (or devref) is the better format.15:34
amotoki_personally specs repo works more because neutron repo has many reviews.15:34
neiljerram(Although also very open to people telling me that there is a better way!)15:34
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carl_baldwinSounds like we still don’t have consensus on when a spec vs devref should be used.15:35
kevinbentonI'm fine with either15:35
kevinbentonIf it's in neutron I will actually pay more attention to it15:36
kevinbentonI always forget to look at neutron-specs15:36
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neiljerramkevinbenton: You're definitely pushing me one way! :-)15:36
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carl_baldwinI’m fine with either and I propose that we keep the devref linked to the rfe for now and we’ll follow up to clarify the process.15:37
kevinbentonneiljerram: Yeah, the rfe is where quit if you don't care about the implementation15:37
carl_baldwin#action carl_baldwin will follow up to clarify when specs should be used and when devrefs.15:37
kevinbentonneiljerram: since you want to develop this, writing the spec/devref makes more sense15:37
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neiljerramOK, great, thanks.  I'll carry on with the devref for now.15:37
amotoki_i am fine with either. once the process is clarified.15:37
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carl_baldwinLet’s move on.  There are a bunch of other rfes.15:38
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* carl_baldwin is still confused about rfe bug “status”, “importance”, and “milestone"15:40
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carl_baldwinThere are three rfe bugs marked “new”15:40
-amotoki_- am confused too15:40
carl_baldwinOne is the one we’ve just been discussing.15:40
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carl_baldwinHere is the next:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/146893415:41
openstackLaunchpad bug 1468934 in neutron "Neutron might use robust quota enforcement" [Wishlist,New]15:41
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amotoki_it is about better quotas blueprint and just a conversion. I think we can mark it as triaged.15:42
carl_baldwinLooks like this is salv-orlando ’s long lost rfe.15:42
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kevinbentonI think this is good15:43
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amotoki_I changed it to Triaged.15:43
carl_baldwinAnyone have a link to the bug handy?15:43
openstackLaunchpad bug 1468934 in neutron "Neutron might use robust quota enforcement" [Wishlist,Triaged]15:44
salv-orlandocarl_baldwin: yeah I was submitting bugs against vmware-nsx and ended up reporting the rfe against vmware-nsx too!15:44
kevinbentonBecause right now anyone can get (number of API workers in the entire datacenter) over their quota15:44
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neiljerramIs this the BP? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/better-quotas15:45
carl_baldwinSo, are we beating a dead horse here?  salv-orlando, was this already approved?15:46
carl_baldwinIf not, I’m +1 for this and I think it is good.15:46
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salv-orlandocarl_baldwin: the spec was approved for kilo. I failed resubmitting it by liberty-1 and then filed a RFE15:46
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salv-orlandoI hope I followed the process in a correct and pedant way15:47
carl_baldwinI think we’re all good to go.15:47
salv-orlandonow if you excuse me I have a yak to shave15:47
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kevinbentondougwig: you've been awfully quiet15:47
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carl_baldwinThe next new one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/147272715:49
openstackLaunchpad bug 1472727 in neutron "Subnet pools and the quota on subnets" [Undecided,New]15:49
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kevinbentonThose both have the word quota in them, that means salv-orlando will do it :)15:50
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carl_baldwinI think I need to read this some more.  It doesn’t quite make sense to me what the submitter is after.15:51
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carl_baldwinI’ll also ask tidwellr to read it and comment.15:51
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carl_baldwinSo, let’s leave it for next week.15:51
amotoki_I havent understood what is really requested...15:51
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kevinbentonIt seems the idea is to restrict a tenant to X subnetpools15:52
kevinbentonWhere X is this new quota15:52
carl_baldwinkevinbenton: That is pretty close to what I was thinking.15:52
kevinbentonBut I'm not sure I understand why15:52
carl_baldwin#topic rfes15:53
*** openstack changes topic to "rfes (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)"15:53
* carl_baldwin forgot to change the topic.15:53
carl_baldwinkevinbenton: Me neither15:53
carl_baldwinDo we need to go through the rfe bugs marked confirmed here?15:53
salv-orlandore bug 1472727 I reckon the drivers team should ask for clarifications15:53
openstackbug 1472727 in neutron "Subnet pools and the quota on subnets" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147272715:53
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kevinbentoncarl_baldwin: Yeah, for this one mark it as incomplete15:54
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carl_baldwinkevinbenton: I had just marked it incomplete when I read that.  :)15:55
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kevinbentonOk, shall we end this?15:57
kevinbentonOr do we want to wait for dougwig to give us the all clear :)15:57
carl_baldwinI’ll take my action items to clarify a few things around process.  We’ll probably have a discussion or two on the ML.15:57
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carl_baldwinAnything else for today?15:57
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amotoki_none from me15:58
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 14 16:00:00 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-07-14-15.04.html16:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-07-14-15.04.txt16:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-07-14-15.04.log.html16:00
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carl_baldwinamotoki_: Good night.16:00
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russellbi hate time zones16:07
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AJaegernobody here from infra team?19:01
AJaegerhi mrmartin !19:01
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devkulkarniAJaeger: I am here19:01
AJaegerwelcome, devkulkarni !19:01
fungiyeah, i think we're just on a slow-start today19:01
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* fungi is definitely starting slowly anyway19:02
AJaegerfungi, no wories - just say your note on #openstack-infra and was quick to join ;)19:02
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Zara_hello! :)19:02
zaroZara_: nice name!19:02
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jeblair#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 14 19:02:51 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
anteayathat is going to be tab complete fun19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
jeblair#link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
jeblair#link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-07-19.02.html19:03
jeblair#topic Announcements19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
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jeblairwe have some new core members!19:03
jeblair#info Wayne Warren (waynr) added to jenkins-job-builder-core19:03
jeblairwaynr has been doing a lot of jjb work recently, and is working on some specs in that area19:04
jeblairhopefully will be joining us in the near future to talk about them19:04
fungii would welcome waynr, but isn't around i guess19:04
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jeblairwaynr is not a 100% openstack person, so may not always be able to jump into our meetings19:05
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fungijjb is less of a 100% openstack repo anyway these days, so great fit!19:05
jeblairbut that makes for a healthy project, so cool :)19:05
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jeblair#info Adam Coldrick (SotK) and Zara Zaimeche (Zara_) added to storyboard-core19:05
Zara_\o/ thank you!19:06
jeblairAdam and Zara are interested in helping to maintain and move storyboard forward19:06
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AJaegerwelcome SotK and Zara_ !19:06
jeblairthey are also running it in production so "don't break prod" is something we all agree on :)19:06
* SotK says hello19:06
fungiSotK: Zara_: thanks for taking the plunge on that, and glad it's found renewed interest outside our use case!19:07
SotKfungi: no problem, its an interesting project!19:07
jeblair#info Ian Wienand (ianw) added to nodepool-core and project-config-core19:07
pleia2thanks for your work, ianw!19:07
fungiianw's been a huge help so far. i'm very excited by this19:08
jeblairian groks nodepool, and image building19:08
AJaegerglat to get help on project-config-core, welcome ianw!19:08
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jeblairi expect his main area of project-config interest will be related images, at least at first19:09
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jeblairbut there's a whole lot going on there, and more to come19:09
fungiespecially helpful for him to be core on project-config since that's where our prep scripts and dib elements for nodepool images reside19:09
ianwthanks, hope to be useful :)19:09
pabelangerianw, awesome work19:09
jeblair#topic Specs approval19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:10
jeblair#topic Specs approval: Centralize release tagging19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Centralize release tagging (Meeting topic: infra)"19:10
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jeblair#link centralize release tagging spec https://review.openstack.org/19119319:10
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jeblair#info centralize release tagging spec was approved19:10
jeblairi finally remembered to merge this :)19:10
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jeblairso actually19:11
jeblair#link centralize release tagging spec http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/centralize-release-tagging.html19:11
jeblairthat's better19:11
jeblair#topic Specs approval: Host trystack.o.o site19:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Host trystack.o.o site (Meeting topic: infra)"19:12
jeblair#link host trystack.o.o site spec https://review.openstack.org/19509819:12
jeblairthis one seems ready19:12
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jeblairand fairly straightforward19:12
jeblairanyone have concerns or should we open voting on it?19:12
fungino concerns here19:12
pleia2I had a look yesterday, voting sounds good19:12
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jeblair#info host trystack.o.o site spec voting open until 2015-07-16 19:00 UTC19:13
clarkbI haven't been abl to review specs so abstain19:13
clarkboh I have time nevermindthen19:14
jeblair#topic Specs approval: Add images mirror spec19:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Add images mirror spec (Meeting topic: infra)"19:14
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ianwso currently the unit tests for diskimagebuilder are *really* unreliable19:14
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ianwthis is my thought, but we may need to do something else because changes are not merging19:16
jeblairi have not looked at this yet, and i think we have some other mirror related ideas floating around19:16
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clarkbI have not looked either but the simplest way to mirror these would be to have swift serve them19:17
clarkbsince we already upload all rax dib images to swift. We cna look at doing that for hpcloud too19:17
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mordredmaybe it's time to sketch out a long-term mirror strategy as well as some short-term strategic fixes? (also, we that we can know if various things are short or long term solutions to things)19:17
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jeblairmordred: yeah19:17
ianw(just for the logs, see various rechecks on https://review.openstack.org/185842)19:18
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jeblairi think for this we should collect a set of people now to iterate on this a bit more and then bring it back for voting later19:18
mordredjeblair: ++19:18
jeblairi'm happy to help with it (since some of the ideas floating around are mine)19:19
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pleia2I can pitch in too (haven't looked at this particular spec yet, but will do)19:19
mordredwow. that test sure did spent 30 minutes downloading the fedora base cloud image19:19
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mordred#link http://logs.openstack.org/42/185842/7/check/gate-dib-dsvm-functests-devstack-f21/779d39a/console.html.gz19:20
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ianwyeah, not only does it not work, it's not very friendly to external mirrors19:20
ianwalthough i bet they all see lots more even crazier stuff19:21
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clarkboh that kind of image mirroring19:21
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clarkbso we have two sets of images we need to mirror, something to keep in mind when solving19:21
jeblairi volunteer clarkb to also review that spec19:21
jeblairand mordred :)19:21
clarkbkk :)19:22
jeblairianw: does that work for you?19:22
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fungiwe also have jobs which generate images and then other jobs which consume the same19:22
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clarkbfungi: good point, so 2.5 types of image19:22
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clarkbupstream, our images, images we build for others19:23
ianwthanks, yeah that is fine.  i know the problem space is quite large, so hopefully we can find some baby-steps19:23
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fungiso this is sort of similar on the second half of that problem, but the first half is "notice this has updated and retrieve it" rather than "build and upload it"19:23
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ianwthat get us moving in the right direction *and* get nodepool functional tests working19:23
mordredyah. I think we can ... also, even a sketched out "in 3 years we'd love to have mirroring that looks like X" should help us with some babysteps for now as well19:23
clarkbdid someone write a job with the nodepool devstack work I did?19:23
clarkbor do you mean dib func tests?19:24
ianwbah, sorry, dib19:24
clarkb(its still on my list to make the nodepool + devstack stuff work)19:24
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jeblair#info continue work on add images mirror spec: https://review.openstack.org/19447719:25
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Swift Logs)19:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift Logs) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:25
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jheskethso there's probably not a lot to say here except there are some changes ready for review https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/os-loganalyze+branch:master+topic:enable_swift,n,z19:26
jheskethbasically I think the problems we had with updating os-loganlayze before were due to not reloading apache19:26
jheskeththis should happen now, so we should check that theory19:26
jeblairokay cool19:26
jheskethunfortunately I never had the logs from what went wrong, so it's hard to say19:26
jeblairjhesketh: what are the next few steps?19:26
jheskethit's something we should watch when it goes in19:26
fungijhesketh: you had the stack traces though, correct? i at least provided those19:27
fungii'm pretty sure19:27
clarkbI never saw the errors fwiw19:27
jheskethhmm, if you did, I've missed them :-(19:27
clarkbjhesketh: the change(s) to do the apache reload did get in correct?19:28
clarkbok (just checking as I remember reviewing it and it wasn't on the list you linked)19:28
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jheskethso there are two options for next steps, I think.. 1) Wait until we have really solid upgrade and integration tests for os-loganalyze, or 2) carefully merge the changes during a quiet time19:29
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jheskethpragmatically I'd like to chose #219:30
anteayawe have been using #2 prior to now, have we not?19:30
clarkbanteaya: we have19:30
jheskethmore or less19:30
clarkbjhesketh: I agree and am happy to be around to help with that19:30
jeblair2 works for me :)19:31
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anteayaI'm happy with #219:31
fungijhesketh: found the paste!19:31
fungi#link http://paste.openstack.org/show/205683/19:31
clarkbI am awake at all hours so we can even do it during your day :)19:31
pleia2haha, poor clarkb19:31
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anteayaclarkb: yay babies19:31
jheskethmy day tends to be quieter for most anyway19:32
jheskethfungi: ah cool, thanks for that... when I stumbled across the reloading apache problem that was what I saw19:32
jheskethso hopefully that is the fix19:32
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fungismoking gun19:32
jheskethclarkb: shall we merge it my Saturday, so Friday night for most others?19:33
clarkbjhesketh: that sounds good19:33
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clarkbits an easy rollback so not worried about it if we do have problems19:33
jheskethcool, I'll ping you then and we can figure out if it's a good time19:33
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jeblaircool, anything else on this?19:34
jheskethI'm also happy to do it myself but appreciate the offer for help19:34
jheskethprobably just getting reviews on that list would be most helpful19:34
jeblair#info clarkb and jhesketh to babysit application of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/199375/19:35
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jeblair#info on friday/saturday19:35
fungijhesketh: now that you have ssh access you can also easily watch the access logs on static.o.o19:35
fungiso can revert fairly quickly if there are still issues19:35
jheskethindeed :-)19:35
jeblairi forgot to do agenda cleanup last week, so i think the next topic is grafana, does that seem wrong to anyone?19:36
anteayathat was last week was it not?19:36
jeblairanteaya: not according to the summary19:37
jeblairlet's go with it19:37
SotKI have a couple of things to discuss re: StoryBoard19:37
jeblairokay, storyboard then grafana19:37
jeblair#topic Storyboard Development19:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Storyboard Development (Meeting topic: infra)"19:37
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jeblairSotK: what's on your mind?19:38
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SotKFirst up, would it be possible for Zara_ and I to be added to the storyboard-webclient-core group on Gerrit too please?19:38
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jeblairdid i miss that?  sorry.  certainly!19:39
pabelangerjeblair, anteaya no, we ran out of time last week for grafana19:39
SotKI was also wondering if we should send specs to the infra-specs repo for any features we plan to implement19:39
anteayapabelanger: ah19:39
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SotKFor example, I've recently been thinking about task lists and would find design feedback from other folk useful I think19:40
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jeblairSotK: that's a good question... honestly, i think it comes down to whether there will be useful reviewers....19:41
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jeblairSotK: maybe the best thing is to go ahead and do that for the task list idea you're thinking of and see who shows up and if it's useful19:42
jeblairSotK: and if it turns out that it's not, we can decide not to do it next time :)19:42
SotKsounds good19:42
* mordred agrees with jeblair19:42
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SotKFinally, would it be possible for us to reinstate the old storyboard weekly meeting at a similar time to the 15:00 UTC it used to be at?19:43
pleia2I'd say go for it19:43
anteayaonly if that space is still available19:43
pleia2yep, just check on http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/19:44
pleia2(also explains how to add your meeting)19:44
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SotKpleia2: great, thanks!19:44
anteayathat time looks full on my ical feed but I'm sure you can find an open time somewhere for a weekly team meeting19:44
jeblairSotK: thank you!19:45
AJaegerwow, eavesdrop got a redesign - but still the single ical feeds are broken ;(19:45
jeblair#topic Grafana.o.o (pabelanger)19:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Grafana.o.o (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:45
pabelangerSo, the puppet-grafana modules is it good shape I think.  So much so, I think I'm ready to ask for it to be merged.  However, 1 thing that is missing is the yaml file support for datasources19:45
pabelangerright now we are using 2.0.0 but a patch was added into 2.1.0 for it19:46
nibalizersweet i should reivew this19:46
pabelangerhowever, 2.1.0 is not going to be released for another 2 months I think19:46
ttxAJaeger: I shall look into that19:46
nibalizerpabelanger: so did we end up using the community puppet-grafana or our own?19:46
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pabelangerso, question is, is 2.0.0 good enough for now, or wait until 2.1.0 for grafyaml full support19:46
pabelangernibalizer, upstream module19:46
nibalizeror are you refering to the bits in system-config to use the community module19:46
jeblairwhat are we missing in 2.0.0?19:47
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pabelangerthe ability to create datasources via grafyaml19:47
pabelangerright now it is manual step19:47
jeblairpabelanger: ah19:47
pabelangerotherwise we need to hack database to add our key19:48
pabelangerwhich we can do, but pretty ugly19:48
jeblairpabelanger: is that just a one time thing to add our key, then we can use grafyaml?19:48
pabelangeronce 2.1.0 lands, we'll update grafyaml to support basic auth19:48
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pabelangerjeblair, right19:48
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jeblairokay, so there's a manual step at server creation time (which will be automatable in 2.1.0), but other than that, we can start using grafyaml to manage the actual dashboards?19:49
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jeblairi think in that case i'm okay with the manual stuff to get us started19:49
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pabelangerYa, figured people would be cool with it19:49
pabelangerreason I am asking19:49
fungiright now we're in a similar boat with gerrit and jenkins19:50
fungiso it's a reasonable stopgap, especially since there's a light at the end of the tunnel (unlike with gerrit)19:50
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jeblair#agreed okay to spin up grafana and manually add key to database (grafana 2.1.0 will make this automatable)19:51
jeblairpabelanger: anything else?19:51
pabelangerya, upstream grafana was more then happy to address the bug request19:51
pabelangerjeblair, nope. thanks19:51
jeblairoh that's good to hear!19:51
jeblair#topic The Ops Mid-Cycle details are now available, Palo Alto, Aug 18-19 (pleia2)19:51
*** openstack changes topic to "The Ops Mid-Cycle details are now available, Palo Alto, Aug 18-19 (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:51
pleia2we hadn't really talked about this as a team, so I wanted to just mention it19:51
anteayaI'm going19:52
pleia2pretty sure crinkle and greghaynes are planning on attending along with me19:52
pleia2so we've got hardware and puppet and infra19:52
anteayabut my main motivation is the nova-net/neutron stuff19:52
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greghaynespleia2: Yep!19:53
pleia2of course our focus is re: infra-cloud19:53
anteayado we need our topic back?19:53
jeblairmaybe i ought to go too... since it's "close"  (even though travel-wise it's about as far as portland)19:53
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anteayait would be nice to see you19:53
mordredjeblair: you could fly19:53
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greghaynesI have always really enjoyed the ops summits FWIW, highly reccomended if you can make it :)19:54
jeblairpleia2: but yeah, in general that seems like a good thing for us to go19:54
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jeblairmordred: OAK-PAO on a cessna19:54
pleia2that's it on that topic, we can chat closer in about anything else19:54
fungii believe the openstack meetbot will fix the topic again on the next #topic change19:55
jeblairpleia2: cool, thanks!  i had missed the announcement, and it's a good idea.19:55
jeblair#topic  Open discussion19:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:55
fungitheory proven ;)19:55
* zaro will be mostly afk for next 2 weeks19:55
anteayazaro: happy vacationing19:55
zaroi missed that announcement as well.19:56
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pabelangerpleia2, do you have a schedule for ops meeting up some place?19:56
pleia2I'm doing CLS and some OSCON-near things, so I'll be scarce this Fri- next Wednesday19:56
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greghaynesI forgot to chime in during the mirror section (my time is all off ATM) - another big thing DIB tests are dealing with is lack of package mirrors in addition to image mirrors19:56
anteayait is on the operators mailing list19:56
fungii'm still sort of not around while i deal with new house stuff, so sorry for being in and out and generally minimally helpful19:56
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greghaynesspecifically, debian and fedora have pretty unreliable package mirrors and dib tests use them19:56
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pleia2pabelanger: not sure how much they have yet, let's see...19:56
fungigreghaynes: for that, can we rely on our package caching more?19:57
anteaya#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2015-July/007634.html19:57
pabelangerI wanted to note I haven't heard much about stackalytics.o.o in a few weeks.  Unless anybody else has heard from thing from mirantis19:57
greghaynesfungi: in theory, yes, its a lot of packages though19:57
nibalizerpleia2: do you think theres any hope of getting a tag on the upstream grafana module19:57
mordredgreghaynes: so - I think we should make a more comprehensive TOTAL mirror solution spec19:57
pabelangerany word back from their marketing team?19:57
greghaynesI think were quickly aproaching the limit of where that is sustainable19:57
fungigreghaynes: any guess at how big a primed dib job package cache would be?19:57
mordredthat includes all the things we want to mirror19:57
greghaynesmordred: agreed19:57
nibalizerusing a random hash is okay i guess but tags are nice19:57
pleia2pabelanger: there's a planning etherpad on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Operations/Meetups19:57
greghaynesfungi: nope, that is a good question though19:57
greghaynesfungi: I bet I can hack up something with dib to figure it out19:57
anteayapabelanger: I have not heard anything no19:58
fungigreghaynes: if it's just a few hundred megabytes, that's probably easy to accommodate19:58
pleia2nibalizer: we can probably arrange that19:58
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pleia2nibalizer: though I think you meant pabelanger :)19:58
greghaynesfungi: the problem is its all the distros, so its probably a few hunded meg * 5+19:58
nibalizerpleia2: oh i was meaning to tab pabelanger ya19:58
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pabelangerjeblair, mordred re: stackalytics.o.o, any suggestion on nudge mirantis?19:58
fungigreghaynes: oh, right, we can't rely on our nodepool-built cache for this because you're installing other operating systems in a chroot19:59
mordredpabelanger: you know - I was just chatting with lsell earlier - maybe she or jbryce could be helpful in getting that sorted19:59
greghaynesfungi: exactly19:59
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jeblairthanks all!20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 14 20:00:26 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
pabelangermordred, thanks. I'll ping them20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-14-19.02.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-14-19.02.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-14-19.02.log.html20:00
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ttxHappy Bastille day! Anyone here for the TC meeting ?20:00
anteayattx Happy Bastille Day20:01
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ttxrussellb, jgriffith, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, flaper87, jaypipes: around ?20:01
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ttxthat means quorum. Let's get started20:02
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ttx#startmeeting tc20:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 14 20:02:42 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:02
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ttxAlright, here is our agenda for today:20:02
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:02
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* devananda lurks20:03
ttx#topic Cross-project-spec final approval: Eventlet Best Practices20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project-spec final approval: Eventlet Best Practices (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/154642/20:03
ttxLooks like this one has lingered enough and has enough consensus to get the final approval rubberstamp20:03
ttxAny objection ?20:03
mordredSTAMP IT20:04
sdagueall the stamps20:04
ttx#topic Add neutron to starter-kit:compute20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Add neutron to starter-kit:compute (Meeting topic: tc)"20:04
* mordred stamps the stamps20:04
lifelessttx: o/20:04
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/19643820:04
ttxThis is a continuation from last week discussion, where we delayed decision for one week, waiting for a new patchset and Jay to have enough time for a deeper dive20:04
mordredon this one and its friend, I fixed some typo-style reviews from folks in follow-on patches20:05
ttxLooks like it won a majority over the week20:05
AJaegerthanks, pleia2 !20:05
AJaegeroops, wrong channel - me leaves and says sorry20:05
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ttx(just returning from a 2-day break so if I appear to be slightly off, that's normal)20:05
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ttxQuestions before we move to final approval on it ?20:06
russellbo/ sorry20:06
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sdaguepersonally, pretty happy how it all turned out20:06
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mordredme too20:07
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ttxyes, I think our starter kit now gets stronger20:07
mordredI think we found some good clear language about some things20:07
mordredit's almost like collaboration worked to a positive benefit20:07
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ttxmordred: we should build a project around that concept20:07
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annegentleI have a question on the install guide, has anyone talked to Lana or the install guide folks about it?20:07
mordredttx: bah. it'd never work20:07
ttxannegentle: Lana +1ed the review, but not sure if she considered the install guide specifically20:08
annegentleok, cool20:08
jeblairannegentle: we have to collaborate with MORE people?  ;)20:08
annegentleeven more! and they *gasp* write stuff20:08
ttxAlright, 30 more seconds to record your vote on this historic moment and I'll rubberstamp it20:08
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ttxA few more tag adjustments/definitions20:09
ttx#topic Redefine release tags to match new models20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Redefine release tags to match new models (Meeting topic: tc)"20:09
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/19878920:10
ttxthis one is about adapting the release tags to the recent changes in Liberty20:10
ttxIn particular the rise of the "follows development cycle with intermediary releases" model20:10
ttxThe old set of tags were additive, and only a few combinations were actually supported20:10
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ttxThis new set of tags clearly defines 4 exclusive options20:10
annegentlequestion o/20:10
ttxannegentle: yes20:10
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annegentleok, so we have release:none (think: openstack/governance) as an example, but are we applying tags at a release cycle point-in-time eventually?20:11
ttxannegentle: you can still push tags. They just don't result in tarballs or anything20:11
annegentlettx: they result in a page being published20:11
ttxannegentle: you mean for docs ?20:12
annegentlethinking of it from a docs standpoint, right.20:12
annegentlettx: how would we know when to apply a governance tag20:12
annegentleI may be overthinking this, totally possible20:13
ttxif the docs are not continuously produced and you "publish" them on a tag, I would count that as a release20:13
ttx(it's a doc release triggered by a tag)20:13
mordredI would agree, fwiw20:13
ttxBut that's arguably a corner case20:13
annegentleyes, on the docs site we use a mechanism like that, but for tags published to governance.openstack.org do we need something similar20:13
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ttxannegentle: governance.o.o is continuously published, so I'd say no20:14
ttxit has no release, the repo is the state20:14
annegentleright now governance.openstack.org is continually published, with no "release" mechanism, but we may way to change that to publish tags after a release date.20:14
ttxannegentle: sure, and then we'll change the release model tag20:14
annegentle(pages that describe tags is what I mean)20:14
annegentleok, got it20:14
ttxit can certainly evolve over time :)20:14
ttxAlright, has enough votes now, will approve in 30sec20:15
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ttxunless there are other questions20:15
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annegentleI'm good20:15
ttxok done20:15
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ttx#topic Add and apply vulnerability:managed tag20:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Add and apply vulnerability:managed tag (Meeting topic: tc)"20:15
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/19972020:16
ttxThis one is proposed by the VMT, to keep track *and* communicate which projects are directly handled by the team20:16
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ttxfungi: around?20:16
ttxquestions on that one ?20:16
fungilooks like it's well received20:16
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ttxI found the name funny but I agree the alternative is funnier.20:16
fungibasically just documenting the current state with a tag, not changing any policy/process (yet)20:17
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sdagueyeh, super straight forward: STAMP!20:17
ttxAlright... no questions ?20:17
ttxstamping in 30 sec20:17
fungiit feels like this is a better first step, then we can evolve the process in a more governance-facing way once we have the initial tag definition20:17
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fungione more ugly wiki article get vaporized!20:18
ttx#topic No longer support attributes in tags20:18
*** openstack changes topic to "No longer support attributes in tags (Meeting topic: tc)"20:18
ttxfungi: DIE WIKI DIE20:18
dhellmannI do agree with jaypipes' suggestion to link to the wiki, but I think that can be a minor update patch without full meeting review20:18
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/19998620:18
ttxSo... With the removal last week of the integrated-release tag, we don't have any tag using attributes anymore, and I think it's the occasion to phase the concept out20:18
jaypipesdhellmann: yup, later patch totally cool.20:18
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ttxI blame attributes for giving to some people the wrong idea of what a tag is. A tag should have an opinionated description and an objective application.20:18
ttxIn the recent months we've been pushing things like "team:diverse-affiliation" rather than "team:diverse-affiliation (score=80%)" and I think that's good rather than bad.20:18
ttxSo I would further encourage that direction by removing that concept from the template, and ultimately from the file format20:19
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ttxLooks like I have a majority with me20:19
ttxQuestions ?20:19
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russellbseems fine, and can always re-propose it if there's a good argument in the future to add it back20:19
dhellmannas someone who continually has to parse this yaml file, i would love to remove attributes and just have tag names in the list20:19
ttxdhellmann: don't disclose our secret plan!20:19
* dhellmann shuts up20:19
ttxdhellmann: plan is to phase them out when/if we introduce deliverables as a v2 format20:20
ttxbut shhh20:20
sdagueok, so STAMPING? because this seems really straight forward20:20
ttxyep, in 30 seconds unless someone yells20:20
russellbcan i yell for a different reason?20:20
ttxyour time will come20:20
mordredrussellb: you can yell any time20:20
russellbok great, just checking, i don't have anything to yell about, i just value my right to yell20:21
ttxyes, this whole consensus thing is starting to strike nerves20:21
mordredI also value your right to yell20:21
ttx#topic RPM distribution packaging of OpenStack20:21
*** openstack changes topic to "RPM distribution packaging of OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)"20:21
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/19158720:21
ttxRPM packaging is back on the docket after a few week's hiatus20:21
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ttxI think that's a great initiative, clearly an open collaboration reducing duplication of effort20:21
ttxIt feels more "real" now than it was a few weeks ago, so I see no reason to further block it20:21
russellbreal work getting done?20:22
ttxwell, just the fact that the two main distros agreed on a plan and co-PTLs is telling enough20:22
mordredyah. /me is a fan of agreement20:23
ttxthere was a new rev, you may want to reapply votes20:23
dhellmannttx: I rebased https://review.openstack.org/19972020:23
sdagueyeh, I feel like this seems pretty straight forward, fedora and suse working together20:23
ttxLet me restamp that for you20:23
markmcclainso speaking of 'and' we used '&' for searchlight.. which is the preferred style :)20:23
dhellmannttx: and https://review.openstack.org/19998620:24
sdaguethat seems like it can only be good for our community to have more commonality20:24
* mordred hands markmcclain a not-very-undrunk jaguar20:24
lifelessyou can't use and & & together?20:24
lifelessyou can't use and and & together?20:24
markmcclainhaha... seriously I think the collaboration is a good thing20:24
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* ttx F5s20:25
sdagueso with no questions, probably keep moving.20:25
sdaguevotes can collect later20:25
ttxAlright, we have a majority apparently.20:25
sdaguewe don't have to hold up for them20:25
ttxObjections to me stamping now ?20:25
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annegentleI like collaboration.20:26
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ttxWelcome, RPM packaging.20:26
ttx#topic Add Fuel to OpenStack Projects20:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Add Fuel to OpenStack Projects (Meeting topic: tc)"20:26
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/19923220:26
jeblairi'm in the process of -1ing this.20:26
ttxLarge project that has been part of our landscape for some time now20:26
jeblairfuel does not use OpenStack CI at all, and does not conform to the the project testing interface20:26
ttxRight. Another thing I'm concerned about here is... a project in OpenStack should not be owned by a given company. And here given how large and old the contributor base is, it is de-facto owned by Mirantis20:27
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markmcclainyeah the top 100+ reviewers from there20:28
ttxI'm still not sure I would -1 over it, but... I'd like to be sure the project is not locked20:28
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mordredI had forgotten that they do not have any jobs running in openstack's ci system. that they have an additional CI system for some things does not bother me - but it would be great if it would conform to the PTI and also have the jobs that can be in openstack's ci in openstack's ci20:28
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jeblairmordred: ++20:28
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clarkbdont they have another gerrit too?20:28
jeblairthat's the gist of the comment i just left with my -120:28
clarkbI seem to recall running into it once20:28
lifelesshttp://governance.openstack.org/reference/new-projects-requirements.html doesn't specify the PTI as a requirement20:28
lifelessits not mentioned at all20:28
lifelessand diversity is now a tag20:28
lifelessI'm *really* confused here20:28
sdaguediversity isn't a blocking issue20:29
mordredI think "20:29
mordredThe project has core reviewers and adopts a test-driven gate for changes"20:29
jeblairlifeless: er, the pti itself is a requirement... its a resolution the tc passed intended to apply to all projects20:29
sdagueI just think this is another instance where team:diversity-danger would be appropriate20:29
lifelessjeblair: its documented in the governance repo, its not prescribed by the url I linked to as criteria for inclusion 'in openstack'20:29
annegentlePTI stands for?20:29
jaypipesall: please read Dmitry's response to Sean Collins acknowledging quite openly the areas that the Fuel team needs to improve.20:30
lifelessannegentle: project testing interface20:30
mordredannegentle: Project Testing Interface20:30
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hogepodgeIt's also a fork of the puppet modules, which seems strange.20:30
sdaguewhich we should probably formalize at some point, because a whole crop of recent projects fall into diversity-danger20:30
mordredjaypipes: yah - I liked that response a lot20:30
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jaypipesBTW, how'd the Triple-O CI region work out? ...20:30
lifelessannegentle: http://governance.openstack.org/reference/project-testing-interface.html20:30
clarkbI must've confused the ci with it20:30
dhellmannjeblair, lifeless : should the PTI be added to new-project-requirements?20:30
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ttxjaypipes: yeah. I guess another way to ask my question would be: is an installer an opinionated thing, or can open design work for it20:30
russellbjaypipes: there were two, and one has worked well :)20:30
jeblairdhellmann: i'm boggling a little at the legalese here...20:31
lifelessjeblair: I'm not trying to be legalistic.20:31
mordredjaypipes: yah - so - I think having an additional external CI is a great thing20:31
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annegentleis there API overlap?20:31
lifelessjeblair: I'm trying - as a tc member no less - to actually understand the decisions the big tent discussion actually made20:31
mordredjaypipes: because there are things tha tthings like fuel and tripleo are never really going to be able to test in the infra systems20:31
mordredjaypipes: otoh - there are plenty of thigns that can - and should - be tested there20:31
jeblairi would contend that if the tc pases a resolution applicable to all projects of course it's required for new projects.  however, if there is confusion on that point, then yes, i suppose we should add an item to the new projects criteria that says "adheres to resolutions passed by the tc that apply to all projects"20:32
jaypipesrussellb: my point being that CI for bare-metal provisioning isn't the same problem domain as virtualized systems... Fuel has its own CI system, modelled on upstream with an active intent to align entirely with upstream.20:32
lifelessjeblair: the docs have a lovely page, which replaced another much longer page, and folk are saying that things elsewhere are also actually requirements.20:32
mordredI agree with jeblair20:32
russellbjaypipes: got it20:32
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ttxlifeless: I thinnk OpenSTack projects are about Open Collaboration. If there is no collaboration, I don't see the point of having that project in openstack. It can live in corporate borders.20:32
jeblairlifeless: that's fair -- we have arrived at this conversations with widely divergent assumptions.  i'm just surprised is all.  we can converge i'm sure.  :)20:32
ttxSo I need to be convinced there will be collaboration in Fuel design basically20:32
lifelessttx: sure, and the four opens are clearly covered and docs.20:32
lifelessto be clear20:32
lifelessI'm not voting for or against fuel at this point.20:33
mordredjaypipes: cool - so, I think that's awesome - similar to what we told the folks last week, maybe having the fuel team take the first couple of steps of that would be nice?20:33
lifelessI want though, to feel that we're being clear and upfront to them about whats expected20:33
ttxlifeless: I'm more after some clear statements from the Fuel team, rather than blocking anything.20:33
mordredjaypipes: like, I think it would be awesome for fuel to be in the tent (I did +1 before I was reminded of the CI bits)20:33
jaypipesmordred: yep, and they are eager to address the disparities.20:33
mordredjaypipes: that's excellent to hear20:33
lifelessjeblair: absolutely.20:33
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jaypipesmordred: jeblair's "retire stackforge" patch was certainly a kick in the pants to get going.20:34
lifelessso, I think we should add a note saying that they must /also/ meet any global policies the TC may have20:34
lifelesswhere they == new projects20:34
lifelessI'll draft that up20:34
ttxlifeless: thx20:34
jeblairlifeless: sounds like a plan, thanks :)20:34
jaypipesmordred: as was the long ML thread with EmilienM about aligning to puppet-openstack upstream.20:34
mordredjaypipes: ++20:34
EmilienMjaypipes: o/20:34
annegentlejaypipes: that's good, hogepodge does that address concerns?20:34
annegentleand any Tuskar API overlap concerns?20:34
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russellbplenty of overlap in the deployment space already20:35
russellbso i'm not worried about that part20:35
jaypipesEmilienM: that ML thread was just another push for Fuel to align more with upstream stuffs...20:35
ttxyeah, me neither20:35
sdagueyeh, I feel like deployment has so many different approaches, we just need to let those all play out20:35
jeblairjaypipes: does that mean something like fuel becoming a downstream consumer of puppet-openstack modules?20:36
sdagueit is very clear that one size does not fit all there20:36
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annegentlesdague: crystal clear :)20:36
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jaypipesjeblair: yes, that has already been 100% agreed.20:36
EmilienMjaypipes: they are clearly not ready yet though. Do we have a timeline for this?20:36
hogepodgehas progress been made in renconciling them? it's been promised for a long while but never seems to happen20:36
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jaypipesEmilienM: the intent is 100% there. it's just going to take a little time to align, of course.20:37
dhellmannlifeless, jeblair : https://review.openstack.org/20176420:37
ttxI just have to switch from thinking Fuel is Mirantis's installer to "Fuel can be a community-developed openstack installer"20:37
jaypipesEmilienM: dmitry is actively working on a timeline, yep.20:37
jaypipesEmilienM: we can take this offline, though...20:37
EmilienMand what is important to be in the big tent, attent or real situation ?20:37
jaypipesEmilienM: both.20:37
EmilienMjaypipes: cool, ping me anytime20:37
lifelessdhellmann: so I think thats insufficient. I have a different change in draft20:37
dhellmannlifeless: k20:38
mordredjaypipes: so, I think maybe we should start an email thread similar to EmilienM's about the puppet modules about which bits of fuel CI we can realistically do in infra20:38
mordredand what that plan wants to look like20:38
hogepodgejaypipes: I've been told it's happening as far back as Hong Kong20:38
hogepodgehow much time is needed?20:38
EmilienMme too :)20:38
annegentlehogepodge: I do think it's good to give them a push then through this review20:38
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EmilienMmordred: my long and though thread?20:38
sdagueso those concerns from hogepodge and EmilienM are concerning to me20:38
jaypipeshogepodge: it is happening, yes. I'll ask Dmitry to email the ML with the current timeline and plan.20:38
jaypipesEmilienM: ^20:39
annegentlejaypipes: sounds good20:39
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jeblairmordred, jaypipes: yeah, we know we can't test everything, but we can certainly do some (there's quite a bit of testing in puppet-openstack and it's getting better quickly)20:39
sdaguebecause if it's been a long line of promisses and no action, it's hard to have faith going forward20:39
EmilienMmordred: https://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg55455.html ?20:39
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mordredjeblair: ++20:39
jaypipessdague: understood, and acknowledged. time and actions only will prove things out.20:40
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russellbmaybe we defer until Puppet team can ack that they're happy with collaboration?20:40
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russellbseems like a good step forward20:40
mordredrussellb: ++20:40
russellbto show good faith around increased collaboration20:40
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sdaguerussellb: I like that idea20:41
lifelessttx: jeblair: dhellmann: https://review.openstack.org/20176620:41
jaypipesrussellb: ++ i think that's a good idea.20:41
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lifelessjaypipes: ^ may want to look at that too20:42
russellbwoah that's a lot of agreement20:42
sdagueso, how about we table for now, there are a few collab todos, and swing back around later in the cycle and see how all of that is going20:42
ttxrussellb: man, what did you DO?20:42
russellbsdague: +120:42
ttxlet me #agree that20:42
dhellmannlifeless: 3 different changes there...20:42
lifelessdhellmann: there are20:42
* jeblair agrees with the agreeable russellb20:42
ttx#agreed Fuel -- table for now, there are a few collab todos, and swing back around later in the cycle and see how all of that is going20:43
russellbbut in theory, i think it makes perfect sense20:43
lifelessdhellmann: and if we have contention, I'll split them out.20:43
jaypipeslifeless: +1 from me..20:43
ttxOK... MOAR topics20:43
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sdagueyep, I'm good with concept, just want to make sure the team is collaborating with the rest of OpenStack well20:43
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annegentleis someone writing the requet in the review itself?20:44
ttxand I want to discuss a bit on the roadmap and open design going forward20:44
ttxsince it might be a bit of a cultural change. We never had a *large* non-diverse project yet20:44
ttxso I'd like to start the discussion on open design early rather than late20:44
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ttxOK, ready to switch to next topic ?20:45
ttx#topic Add the Delux Project20:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Add the Delux Project (Meeting topic: tc)"20:45
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/19976820:45
ttxSound like a great thing to have in rather than out20:45
russellbclever name at least20:45
jeblairlifeless: generally looks good but i have a nit ;)20:45
ttxThere is a bit of a culture/tooling clash which makes it more difficult for me to consider them "one of us", but I think that comes with the territory20:45
ttxand it's just not possible to hold that against them20:45
ttxThere was a comment about the name, which I think I agree with20:45
annegentleright, I agree it's more similar to translation moving towards more open tooling to me20:46
ttxAll other horizontal teams are named after the function. And this particular name has quite a few collisions20:46
jaypipesttx: agreed. our code-centric tooling just doesn't mesh with the expectations and customs of the UX and designer folk.20:46
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ttxso why not "OpenStack UX" ?20:46
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sdagueright, though phabricator may bring us some of that, correct?20:46
lifelessjeblair: nit picked20:46
annegentleProbably just didn't see the parallel for name20:46
lifelessjeblair: (I've pushed an update)20:47
PietOpenStack UX is prefect20:47
jeblairyes, one of the reasons we're specifically looking at phabricator is to help address this use case20:47
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mordredin fact - thanks for mentioning that in the commit message Piet20:47
jeblair(because it will be _great_ to have commentable mockups directly associated with future-looking work (ie what we call blueprints now))20:47
annegentlejeblair: that would be awesome20:48
ttxIf the OpenDaylight UI was not called DLUX it would probably have been ok, although I prefer horizontal teams being named by function20:48
ttxPiet: cool, thx20:48
ttxNeeds a rebase anyway20:48
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ttxYou can still be called "the Delux crew" :)20:48
PietIs it possible to rebase now and have you folks vote?20:49
russellbside note, maybe we should have a projects/ directory of yaml files to avoid having to rebase patches to projects.yaml so much20:49
dirk____Or an alphabetical ordering enforced20:49
* rockyg thinks russellb's idea is brilliant20:49
ttxside note noted20:49
russellbis it noted on the side?20:50
mordredI think it has a side of bacon20:50
dhellmannrussellb: that will make writing tools to consume the files much more difficult :-/20:50
anteayaI think the detail in teh commit message allows me to feel comfortable with this project not using irc for meetings, and it is the only project I feel this way about20:50
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ttxOther questions on UX ? should we wait for the rebase and vote on it ?20:50
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lifelessmm bacon20:50
dhellmannesp. since many fetch that file remotely20:50
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lifelessyou got me right there20:50
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russellbdhellmann: ok, don't want it to be more difficult20:50
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mordredanteaya: I agree20:51
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ttxOK, let's move on and pile up on the review when it's patchsetted20:51
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ttx#topic Remove cinder from starter-kit:compute20:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Remove cinder from starter-kit:compute (Meeting topic: tc)"20:51
ttxLet's try to sneak this one20:51
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mordredI think this one makes sense to most folks already ...20:51
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/19968020:51
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sdagueyeh, we are already at 7 +1s20:52
ttxmordred: especially with jgriffith away20:52
jeblairi also am concerned about invision but am optimistic about a potential move to phab.  (sorry this was late)20:52
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mordredbut its' based on the reasoning in the neutron patch - cinder is a good case of non-disruptive addition to an existing cloud20:52
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mordredttx: I have heard tell that jgriffith is in favor20:52
ttxWe can approve it today if everyone is fine not having jgriffith comment on it20:52
jgriffithmordred: ttx I'm ok with it20:52
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sdaguehonestly, jgriffith and I had a long conversation about this in #openstack-dev (so it's logged somewhere)20:52
ttxjgriffith: here he is!20:52
mordredoh look! it's a jgriffith20:52
sdagueoh there he is20:52
jgriffithsorry I'm late20:52
jgriffithI just added my vote20:52
ttxNo pb, I just didn't want to rush it without giving you a chance to chime in20:53
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anteayajgriffith: you saved a whole guessing game20:53
ttxLooks like we have a winner20:53
sdagueyeh, I think this was just part of the collab process with the starter kit, trying a thing, then poking at that thing a bit in real systems, and realizing the initial guess might need a little tweaking20:53
ttxWill rubberstamp in 30 sec20:53
ttxquestions, raise them now20:53
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annegentleno questions your honor20:54
ttxAlright, approved20:54
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ttxprobably will fail to merge with current state but meh20:54
ttxIll pick theml up tomorrow20:54
mordredttx: don't forget the follow up word fix too20:54
ttx#topic Workgroup reports20:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Workgroup reports (Meeting topic: tc)"20:54
sdagueyeh, there are some trival typo patches in the stack as well20:54
ttxProject team guide...20:55
jeblairttx, mordred: indeed, that should be speedy approved.  :)20:55
ttxI'd like the workgroup to review https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/project-team-guide+is:open,n,z20:55
ttxCouldn't get flaper87 to post an updated draft for the open development chapter before he went PTO20:55
ttxand I'd like us to have that chapter before we formally publish the first version of the guide20:55
ttxI'll probably pick up that chapter20:55
ttx"Next tags" workgroup...20:55
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ttxI mentioned it last week, and sdague started a thread about it -- a workgroup to actively seek and define useful missing tags20:55
ttxCurrently we have sdague, russellb, zaneb, Ghe and me, which is already a good size, but feel free to join if you have free cycles20:55
ttxAt this stage it's mostly individual brainstorming, but I'd like to start converging, so we'll likely set up a meeting soon20:56
russellbyeah a meeting sounds good to collect ideas and prioritize them20:56
russellband then i'm happy to carve one off and drive it20:56
ttxshould we try this week ? I'm at OSCON next week20:56
russellbthis week is fine with me20:56
ttxlike ~Friday or so20:57
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russellbyeah, Thursday or Friday for me20:57
ttxOK, will propose something20:57
russellbfeels like a good Friday thing20:57
russellbfor some reason20:57
zanebI am free most of Friday20:57
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annegentlecomms communicating! but let's not do a post this week.20:57
annegentleplease remember to tweet links to the posts. I'm also trying to get the "Categories" working so they're all collected20:58
ttxAnyone else ?20:58
annegentle#link http://www.openstack.org/blog/2015/07/technical-committee-highlights-july-10-2015/20:58
ttx#topic Open discussion20:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:58
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ttxNext week I'll be in Portland for OSCON, so I originally thought I would miss the meeting, but I think I can actually make it, since it's around lunchtime20:58
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ttxWho will be around ?20:59
annegentleI should be20:59
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markmcclainI'll be on vacation next week20:59
russellbfor the meeting or oscon20:59
russellbi'm around for the meeting.20:59
mordredI'll be on vacation next week20:59
ttxrussellb: oscon,20:59
mordredand will not be on computers20:59
* annegentle also around for the meeting, not oscon20:59
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sdaguenova midcycle next week so I'll be on MN instead20:59
ttxmordred: I tried that today, didn't work out well20:59
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lifelessI'll be there20:59
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jeblairi'll be around21:00
dhellmannI'll be online21:00
ttxAlright, let's do it21:00
jgriffithmordred: suuurrrreeee you won't :)21:00
jeblairi've significantly revised the stackforge patch https://review.openstack.org/192016 so please review it so i can get it in shape for the next meeting21:00
ttxIf for some reason I don't show up, someone starts it please. Will be relying on conference wifi21:00
* edleafe- will be lurking next week, too21:00
ttxLast words ?21:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 14 21:01:09 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-07-14-20.02.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-07-14-20.02.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-07-14-20.02.log.html21:01
ttxThanks everyone!21:01
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nikhil_k#startmeeting crossproject21:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 14 21:01:43 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is nikhil_k. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'crossproject'21:01
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nikhil_kcourtesy ping for david-lyle flaper87 dims ttx johnthetubaguy rakhmerov21:02
nikhil_kcourtesy ping for smelikyan morganfainberg bswartz slagle adrian_otto mestery21:02
nikhil_kcourtesy ping for kiall jeblair thinrichs j^2 stevebaker mtreinish Daisy21:02
nikhil_kcourtesy ping for notmyname dtroyer isviridov gordc SlickNik loquacities thingee21:02
nikhil_kcourtesy ping for hyakuhei redrobot TravT emilienm SergeyLukjanov devananda21:02
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nikhil_kcourtesy ping for boris-4221:02
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* fungi is mostly here for this21:02
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* dhellmann is going to have to duck out soon21:02
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nikhil_k#info Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting21:03
nikhil_kBefore we get started21:03
nikhil_kI wanted to ask if there's anyone available to signup for volunteering chair for next week's meeting21:04
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ttxWon't be able to cover this one if nobody signs up21:04
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* EmilienM in holidays21:05
ttxso we'd likely skip the meeting if nobody volunteers :)21:05
annegentledo it, it's fun and rewarding!21:05
EmilienMannegentle: I put my name for August21:05
annegentlethanks EmilienM21:05
fungi"cancelled due to oscon"21:05
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ttxok, cancelled it is, then!21:06
nikhil_k#agreed we will skip the meeting next week21:06
* fungi hangs a "gone conferencing" sign on the meeting room door21:07
nikhil_kLet's get started.21:07
nikhil_k#topic Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal)21:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:07
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nikhil_k#info horizontal announcements21:07
nikhil_kany news on this?21:08
ttxOn release management side, I don't have anything specific to announce this week21:08
ttxdhellmann: anything ?21:08
dhellmannnothing from me this week21:08
* ttx blames fireworks21:08
mtreinishnothing this week for qa21:08
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johnthetubaguyNova wise, we have our midcyle next week, no other big news21:08
nikhil_kI don't have a separate section for the API_WG specs, thought we can cover them here21:09
elmikonikhil_k: we don't have any new specs to announce at this time. we will have more up for review later this week.21:09
nikhil_kthanks elmiko21:09
nikhil_k#info vertical announcements21:10
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nikhil_kAny other midcycles to announce?21:10
jrollironic (finally) came to a consensus on how we're doing independent release cycles, and will be doing one shortly after we finish up one feature in flight21:10
* notmyname is working on getting a new python-swiftclient release21:10
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notmynamealso, Swift will be doing a midcycle hackathon next month21:11
jeblairoh, on the release front, the infra spec for the automation around release tagging landed: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/centralize-release-tagging.html21:11
jrolloh, and ironic midcycle is 8/12-14 in seattle21:11
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hogepodgedefcore mid-cycle in two weeks21:12
nikhil_knotmyname: mind adding the info here #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints ?21:12
hogepodgeJuly 29/30 in Austin21:12
EmilienMnikhil_k: we have a virtual one21:13
EmilienMwiki is updated21:13
EmilienMpuppet openstack group has a sprint (or midcycle) in september21:13
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david-lylehorizon midcycle is next week21:13
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nikhil_kgood stuff21:14
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gordcsince everyone is saying something, ceilometer had our's last week21:14
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david-lyletimely announcement ;)21:15
nikhil_kI guess we are short of announcements this week so we don't have a diagonal one21:15
nikhil_kBut great to hear all the midcycle shout outs21:15
nikhil_kMoving on..21:15
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nikhil_kA couple of cross project specs21:16
nikhil_kfirst up21:16
nikhil_k#topic Replace eventlet + monkey-patching with ??21:16
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nikhil_k#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/16403521:16
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nikhil_kThere are decent number of comments on it already but it would be nice to have diverse feedback21:17
nikhil_kAre there any crazy ideas for a replacement?21:18
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nikhil_kI like that John has written let's propose the most dramatic change first21:18
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johnthetubaguythis is josh right?21:20
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nikhil_kJoshua Harlow, yes21:20
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johnthetubaguyI know glyph had some good ideas about slowly transitioning to twisted or async-io by using a non greenlet hub21:20
nikhil_k#help as a first work item on the spec: Request PTLs feedback/analysis on there own projects thread-safety.21:21
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jrolljohnthetubaguy: indeed, I just pointed glyph at this spec21:21
johnthetubaguyjroll: me too, dropped him an email, cools21:21
johnthetubaguyhonestly we need to identify actual issues really21:22
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johnthetubaguyI am interested in swift's performance issues, I should catch up with the go folks about that I guess21:22
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notmynameI haven't looked over this in detail yet, but yeah, I'm pretty concerned about Swift being able to work under a thread/fork model21:22
johnthetubaguywell, my big issue was the DB problems, but it seems like we are making those go away, a little bit21:23
nikhil_kI think we have some in Glance right up front21:23
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notmynameie today's swift clusters are required to handle many thousands of req/sec.21:23
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johnthetubaguyanyways, dhellmann has come great comments on there, I should take a look21:24
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jrollI feel like this spec may be too large of a change (with too many unknowns) to reasonably discuss and come to any consensus in this meeting21:26
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nikhil_kyeah, seems like this spec needs some use cases from OpenStack projects21:27
jrollclearly eventlet has some problems21:27
jrollthreads and asyncio also have problems21:27
jrollwe need to evaluate the real-world usefulness of switching more21:27
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johnthetubaguyjroll: right, I don't see anything compelling enough in the spec21:27
jrolljohnthetubaguy: agree21:28
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nikhil_kthanks guys21:28
nikhil_kmoving on..21:28
nikhil_k#topic Service Catalog updates21:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Service Catalog updates (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:29
nikhil_k#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18139321:29
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annegentleexciting topic, I know!21:29
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nikhil_kLooks neatly written ;-)21:30
annegentleI agree ha ha :)21:30
nikhil_k+1 on Standard required naming for endpoints21:30
annegentleas usual, naming is the hardest part, but I think we can get a lot done towards consistency in the catalog21:30
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johnthetubaguyannegentle: I think you hit all the key issues there21:31
annegentlesdague as partner-in-crime, er, collab21:32
annegentleI hope we got everything, the etherpad got hosed, cough cough, but I think it's good-to-go21:32
jrollkind-of-side-question: is there a way for keystone to send different catalogs for internal/external use?21:33
jroll(I know little-to-nothing about catalogs, feel free to tell me that's a dumb question)21:33
annegentlejroll: hm, I dunno. dolphm or morgan would know21:33
annegentlejroll: it would certainly neaten up things21:33
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johnthetubaguyjroll: I need to look at some of that for the nova config21:34
jrollannegentle: as an operator, that feels kind of key to me21:34
johnthetubaguythere are the three urls I think21:34
dolphmjroll: sort of. there's a feature called endpoint filtering that lets you whitelist certain endpoints for certain projects21:34
dolphmjroll: just don't mistake it for security by obscurity!21:34
mtreinishjroll: there are different endpoint types you can set for a service21:34
johnthetubaguyits the handing it out the end user issue thats not so good21:35
johnthetubaguyit only being in nova config is handy21:35
jrolldolphm: of course, more like "nova should use this neutron endpoint that's only accessible internally"21:35
johnthetubaguydolphm +1 on the obscurity thing, but this is more URLs on an internal network that are of no use to end users21:35
jrollI'm not opposed to continuing to put the url in config files, but this spec specifically calls that out as bad21:35
johnthetubaguyjroll: yeah, I was adding a comment on that just now21:36
dolphmjroll: that's the intention of the "internal" endpoint interface type21:36
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johnthetubaguydolphm: maybe the filtering stops us handing that out the the user, and thats the bit thats handy21:36
jrolldolphm: ok, cool. I want to make sure that doesn't get nuked here :)21:36
johnthetubaguydolphm: for glance its a round robin list of ips in some cases21:36
nikhil_kis this a good place to bring up sub-project endpoints possiblity?21:36
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nikhil_kI may just put that comment in the spec21:37
annegentlenikhil_k: sure, would like an example21:37
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annegentleI'm glad this made it on the cross project agenda so I could get a sense of whether we've all looked at it21:37
annegentleso it can go another week or so21:37
johnthetubaguyannegentle: ah, so one possible issue21:38
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johnthetubaguyif you use keystone auth for non-openstack project21:38
johnthetubaguyyou might get name clashes21:38
johnthetubaguyin the catalog21:38
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johnthetubaguylike there could be two sorts of compute APIs21:38
nikhil_kgiven we will establish a naming criterion it would be nice to assume that we may have more than one endpoint per project-scope21:38
annegentlejohnthetubaguy: yeah I'm not sure what to do about that, alluded to it with the tie-in to projects.yaml for service name21:38
devanandaon the keystone "give different endpoints for internal/external use" -- morganfainberg ?21:38
nikhil_kI think the namespacing liek the one above should help ^ ?21:38
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johnthetubaguyannegentle: I was just thinking os-compute rather than compute, but its messy :(21:39
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jrolldevananda: I think dolphm answered that for me :)21:39
annegentlejohnthetubaguy: yah21:39
devanandajroll: oh, cool. i missed it in the scrollback then21:39
dolphmmorganfainberg is traveling today21:39
dolphmour midcycle starts tomorrow21:39
annegentledefinitely comment on the review and I'll respond21:40
devanandare: service names vs. project names -- i think this is more complex than we're giving it credit for21:40
nikhil_kannegentle: "The tying between auth and getting a service catalog seems unnecessary" -- this might be tricky in some cases21:40
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annegentledevananda: seriously...21:41
nikhil_kI think some value added services that we keep optional and may be exposed to say premium users21:41
devananda"might get name clashes" is unacceptable. two different services with different REST APIs both registering with the same name in keystone? .....21:41
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nikhil_kin such cases exposing the endpoint might be irrelevant21:41
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annegentledevananda: I think we need to tie to governance/projects.yaml to ensure unique21:42
johnthetubaguydevananda: so its actually happened already, I think, we use the same auth for our old cloud and openstack cloud, I think the old one is call "compute" already, but I could be wrong21:42
devanandaannegentle: I agree. Except that puts the TC back in the seat of blessing things21:42
johnthetubaguyannegentle: well I am talking non-openstack projects using keystone really21:42
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devanandajohnthetubaguy: there are a lot of new-openstack-projects that dont have official service names, right?21:43
johnthetubaguyour in this context being rackspace, I need to stop using pronouns21:43
johnthetubaguydevananda: very true, containers?21:43
* devananda checks his assumption in the gov repo 21:43
johnthetubaguydevananda: well, I am thinking about the competing ones that are not yet registered as such, the folks looking in the door of the tent, or something21:44
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nikhil_kIf someone has a single deployment (under same keystone) as hybrid (pub + priv) then name clashes are evident21:44
johnthetubaguynikhil_k: that would be different regions I think21:45
kfox1111there should be uniquenes per region though.21:45
devanandaexactly - unique per region21:45
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annegentlejohnthetubaguy: yeah it's the competing ones I was thinking of orignally21:45
annegentle(I can't spell)21:45
devanandabut if I had two computes in the same region, with different REST APIs, well, that's broken21:45
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devanandaanyway, perhaps we're bikeshedding now21:45
kfox1111x-container until approved? :)21:45
nikhil_khmm, I don't have a real world use case where the same oper uses the same DC for pub and priv so will take the region argument21:46
annegentledevananda: we have that at Rackspace now with "first gen compute" and "next gen compute" and yea it is confusing21:46
johnthetubaguydevananda: yeah, so Rackspace has that, sort of, but anyways, fun fun21:46
nikhil_kI guess we've enough spice to see the spec move forward in some direction21:46
annegentlesure, thanks nikhil_k21:46
nikhil_kI see tpatil sneaked in his etherpad21:47
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nikhil_k#topic return request-id to caller21:47
*** openstack changes topic to "return request-id to caller (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:47
tpatilIn the last meeting, lifeless suggested to return x-openstack-request-id back to the caller in the response itself.21:47
nikhil_k#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/request-id21:47
tpatilWe have analyzed and documented all cinder client methods information in google spreadsheet21:47
tpatil#link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1al6_XBHgKT8-N7HS7j_L2H5c4CFD0fB8xT93z6REkSk/edit?usp=sharing21:47
tpatilThere are 6 different values returned from volume/snapshots methods21:47
tpatillist, dict, resource class object, None, Tuple(Response object, None), Cinder exception21:47
tpatilFor each of the above return value, we have identified what changes are required to pass response headers containing x-openstack-request-id in it. You can find all that information on the etherpad21:48
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tpatilI would like to talk about few limitations of solution #321:48
tpatilDeleting metadata is one big problem as internally it deletes metadata key one by one so it’s not possible to return response header back to the caller21:48
tpatilRetrieving x-openstack-request-id from response is not uniform for each method21:49
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tpatilYou can see example of how to get x-openstack-request-id here21:49
tpatilhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/201434/2/nova/volume/cinder.py, refer to _cinder_volumes method.21:49
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tpatilPOC: python-cinderclient patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/201428/21:49
johnthetubaguytpatil: I thought we were thinking about a list of request-ids, for the general case? I can't remember why that was a bad idea now21:49
lifelessjohnthetubaguy: I don't see why it would be a bad idea21:50
lifelessclearly one-call-one-id is the special case21:50
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tpatiljohnthetubaguy: for snapshot list, there will be single request, so we have added ListWithHeader which will contain response header21:50
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jrollI think I like option one, where get_request_id() returns a list or request IDs21:52
johnthetubaguytpatil: sorry, not sure I get the comment, we can return a list of request-ids in all cases I think21:52
johnthetubaguyjroll: agreed we should have one option21:52
jrolls/list or/list of/21:52
tpatiljohnthetubaguy: Are you talking about deleting metadata case?21:52
jrolltpatil: all cases21:53
johnthetubaguytpatil: talking about all cases really21:53
jrolla list can have one item21:53
jrollif there's one request, return a list of one request ID21:53
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jrollin the order the requests were made21:53
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johnthetubaguyyeah, I feel asleep just before the meeting, so only half awake, but I thought we discussed this a few weeks back, and went for a list of request-ids, I figured we found something bad with that and went back to a single request-id, but my mind is probably playing tricks on me21:54
lifelessthe main thing last week was the discussion about return-with or separate-call or trigger-event21:54
johnthetubaguyyeah, it was maybe the week before we got into request-ids vs a list, but it probably got buried somewhere21:55
nikhil_kand I believe we wanted to return objects?21:55
jrollreturn-with seems bad for the obvious reason that the return value may have different types21:55
jrollseparate-call seems like the most straightforward option, from a dev standpoint21:55
tpatiljroll: that's one concern we have21:55
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johnthetubaguyI thought the idea was we pass the return value to a function that extracts the value for the user?21:56
johnthetubaguyso we get the best of both worlds21:56
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lifelessjroll: so its hugely racy and hard to get right, from a dev standpoint21:56
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nikhil_kI agree, it very racy with separate call21:56
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lifelessjohnthetubaguy: yeah, or just an attribute at a well known place...21:56
lifelessreturn values of None, True and False are where its tricky21:57
jrolllifeless: thing = client.do_a_thing(); req_id = thing.request_ids()  # is racy and hard?21:57
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lifelessjroll: Thats return-with21:57
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kfox1111we going to have time for open discussion before the end?21:57
jrolloh. ohhhh. I totally had this backward.21:57
lifelessjroll: thing = client.do_a_thing(); req_ids = client.get_request_ids() # thats separate-call21:57
johnthetubaguyjroll: I think the issue before was client.do_a_thing() client.get_request_id()21:57
johnthetubaguyyeah, that21:58
nikhil_kOk, I think we have some interest for open discussion21:58
jrolllifeless: yeah, got it. it doesn't return a response object21:58
tpatilRequest everyone to please add your feedback to the etherpad so that I can include it in the specs21:58
tpatilby next meeting21:58
johnthetubaguyso I think we have support for #3 here?21:58
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nikhil_kLooks like we need to move this discussion to the etherpad #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/request-id21:58
johnthetubaguywe are just arguing about what it is called21:58
nikhil_ktpatil: no meeting next week (pls scroll back)21:58
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johnthetubaguybut maybe thats just me?21:58
tpatilI know, next-to-next meeting21:58
nikhil_k#topic Open Discussion21:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:59
nikhil_kmay be we can roll over a min or two if needed21:59
kfox1111The instance user spec could use some attention: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186617/21:59
nikhil_kkfox1111 ^21:59
annegentledon't forget, tomorrow's the deadline for the Call for Speakers https://www.openstack.org/summit/tokyo-2015/call-for-speakers/22:00
annegentle#link https://www.openstack.org/summit/tokyo-2015/call-for-speakers/22:00
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hogepodgeI mentioned it earlier, but anyone who is interested in interop and testing standards please think about attending the defcore mid-cycle #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.MidCycle22:00
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elmikokfox1111: i'll take a look, sahara could really use something like this22:01
kfox1111elmiko: thanks.22:01
kfox1111yeah. most of the projects that build on top of vm's seem to need it.22:01
nikhil_kAlright, we are out of time now.22:02
johnthetubaguykfox1111: thanks for moving this to the backlog, it would be good to get eyes on these ideas22:02
elmikoi thought it was a cool idea last time this came up22:02
nikhil_kThanks for joining, have a great day/evening!22:02
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:02
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 14 22:02:22 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:02
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-07-14-21.01.html22:02
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-07-14-21.01.txt22:02
annegentlethanks nikhil_k22:02
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-07-14-21.01.log.html22:02
elmikothanks nikhil_k22:02
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