Tuesday, 2015-10-13

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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 13 08:01:21 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:01
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anteayahi lennyb08:02
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anteayahow are you today?08:02
lennybanteaya: how are you today?08:02
anteayagood thanks08:02
lennybanteaya: I am fine, thanks.08:02
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anteayaoh good08:02
anteayawhat shall we discuss today lennyb?08:03
lennyball I have is #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206513/08:03
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anteayawhat would you like to say about the patch?08:04
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lennybhow can I make it merged?08:05
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anteayawell to be merged the patch needs another core reviewer to review and leave a +2 and hopefully a +1 workflow08:06
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anteayaso the most you can do is encourage a core reviewer to review08:06
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anteayado you know how to find out who has core review permissions on a repo?08:07
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lennybI will google it :)08:07
anteayaI would be interested if google knows08:08
lennybGogle knows everything :)08:08
anteayadoes google know this?08:09
anteayaotherwise I will tell you08:09
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lennybok, thanks ( but I want to try first :) )08:10
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anteayayes, I am waiting08:12
lennybI've found you and Elizabeth K. Joseph08:12
anteayado report back08:12
anteayabut I don't have core on system-config08:12
lennybmaybe Yolanda08:12
ljxiashHey, anteaya, would you mind telling us how to find it out? I am new and want to know it.08:12
anteayalennyb: you are guessing08:13
anteayaljxiash: sure08:14
lennybI am googling :)08:14
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/902,members08:14
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lennybso I was right 2 out of 3 :)08:15
anteayalennyb: that isn't the point08:15
anteayathe point is your method didn't tell you useful information08:15
anteayaas you were guessing08:16
anteayasign into gerrit and go to people > list groups08:16
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anteayathen enter the name of the gerrit group in the text box as a filter08:16
anteayathat is how you find out who has permissions on a repo08:16
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anteayacan you see that?08:17
lennybyou are correct, the link is added to the favorites and I've noticed where it was located at https://review.openstack.org/08:17
anteayagood I'm glad08:17
anteayais there anything else we should discuss today?08:18
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lennybme has nothing08:19
anteayaokay thank you08:19
anteayaany reason why I shouldn't close the meeting?08:19
anteayathanks for your participation today lennyb and ljxiash08:21
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anteayasee you next week08:21
lennybhave a good day08:21
anteayathanks lennyb, you too08:21
ljxiashthank you, anteaya08:21
anteayaljxiash: welcome nice to see you08:21
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openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 13 08:21:33 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:21
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alex_xu#startmeeting nova api12:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 13 12:00:02 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.12:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.12:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_api'12:00
alex_xuwho is here today?12:00
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alex_xuhello everyone, long time no see~12:00
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gmann_yea :)12:01
gmann_alex_xu: hows was ur vacation ?12:01
sdagueo/ ( though I'm going to be in and out dealing with this fix and baby getting up)12:01
alex_xugmann_: it's great thanks12:01
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alex_xusdague: it's fine12:01
alex_xuso let's get start the meeting12:01
alex_xu#topic actions from last meeting12:01
alex_xuaction: alex_xu catch up stable-core review the api bug kilo back-port12:02
alex_xuthat is done, the patches already merged12:02
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/22713512:02
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/22717612:02
alex_xuaction: alex_xu check to see if all the issues fixed on the v2.1 api doc12:02
alex_xuLooks still have something didn't fix yet12:02
alex_xu#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-v2.1-api-doc12:02
alex_xuso I will file bug for them, and decribe how we fix them12:03
alex_xuFew of them need update our api sample, like we said all the extension must enabled. But some api sample file only show part of attributes, not include the extended attrs.12:03
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* bauzas waves not so late 12:03
johnthetubaguyOK, can we get nova folks working on those bug fixes, they seem really important12:03
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alex_xuyea, appreciate people can help on it12:04
gmann_alex_xu: yea, all extension thing we decided12:04
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johnthetubaguyyeah, enabling all the extensions in the tests is a good one to start with12:04
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alex_xuafter I file bug, I will link the bug back to the etherpad12:04
gmann_alex_xu: johnthetubaguy : can we merge sample tests for all extension of should wait till we completely remove the extension things ?12:05
alex_xuor anyone interesting on each item you can file the bug also12:05
johnthetubaguyfor the tests, we could just create a blueprint to track the effort?12:05
johnthetubaguyif thats easier12:05
alex_xugmann_: we needn't wait to remove extension I think12:05
gmann_alex_xu: johnthetubaguy ok12:05
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: +112:05
johnthetubaguynow it does change our test coverage12:06
gmann_i will do it, just create BP and on etherpad people can join12:06
* edleafe has to run out for a few minutes12:06
johnthetubaguybut it concentrates in on the default configuration, so I feel happier with that12:06
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: for fix the wadl doc, we just need change few api sample I think, so we can quick fix them12:06
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alex_xulater we will run all the extension for all the api sample test12:06
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alex_xugmann_: thanks12:06
gmann_alex_xu: +112:06
johnthetubaguyI was thinking about us needing them for the swagger stuff I guess12:07
johnthetubaguybut I am getting ahead of things12:07
gmann_fixed one today - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/234072/12:07
alex_xu#action gmann_ will creae BP and etherpad to track the work merge api sample test and run all the extensions12:07
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yes12:07
alex_xuwe will talk that later12:07
gmann_which is something i want to discuss, actually this is one where v2.1 and v2 differ12:07
johnthetubaguygmann_: point me at the BP, and I can get it approved, etc12:08
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alex_xuanymore people sign up for fix wadl doc?12:08
gmann_should we mention this diff on doc and have both response there?12:08
gmann_johnthetubaguy: sure12:08
Kevin_ZhengI can help12:08
alex_xuKevin_Zheng: cool, thanks!12:08
gmann_because this is the only case where response differ.12:08
alex_xu#action alex_xu file bug for wadl doc problem, and work with Kevin_Zheng on fix them12:09
gmann_or how about adding some comments there about v2 return net-id also12:09
johnthetubaguygmann_: for the ones that differ, I guess we added most of the stuff in a later microversion, or something like that?12:09
alex_xugmann_: emm...ok that need more thinking12:09
gmann_alex_xu: consider me also for wadl if needed12:09
alex_xugmann_: thanks12:10
gmann_johnthetubaguy: yea 2.12 has that attribute12:10
johnthetubaguygmann_: I think thats OK then, v2.11 and v2.0 can share, for that API call, maybe?12:10
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johnthetubaguygmann_: if not, we will just need two separate tests, which is fine12:10
gmann_johnthetubaguy: yea, test wise ok, i was thinking on doc - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/234072/12:11
johnthetubaguygmann_: ah, gotcha12:11
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alex_xuI thnk we can discussion each work item later, we have a lot of items today12:12
johnthetubaguyyeah, +112:12
gmann_alex_xu: yea sure.12:12
alex_xuaction: nova-api team review and land outstanding doc patches for next week - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/230186 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226253 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229546/12:12
alex_xuonly https://review.openstack.org/#/c/230186 didn't merged yet.12:12
alex_xuso hope all team member continue help on the review12:13
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alex_xuthat looks like close12:13
alex_xuaction: sdague to add concept guide progress to standing agenda12:13
alex_xusdague: are you around?12:13
sdagueyeh, I don't think I made the agenda changes12:13
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alex_xuok, anyway I added that in the agenda...12:14
alex_xuaction: sdague to propose API slot for summit12:14
sdaguealex_xu: I did that one12:14
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alex_xudo we have list for what we will discussion on the summit?12:14
alex_xuor we should create one?12:14
johnthetubaguyits on an etherpad12:15
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johnthetubaguyoh, sorry, not for the API session yet12:15
johnthetubaguythe session was accepted, but not got the detail for that session locked down yet12:15
sdagueI had a brief list in the session submission12:15
alex_xusdague: cool12:15
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: did that make it to the etherpad as well?12:15
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: where we should wrote down the detail?12:15
johnthetubaguyso I haven't created the official etherpads yet12:16
johnthetubaguywanted to wait till we had the scheduled nailed down, got an outstanding issue right now12:16
johnthetubaguyso basically, we can decide where to put it, for now12:16
alex_xuhow about we have temp one, then people can review the list and wrote down the item they want to discussion?12:16
johnthetubaguyyeah, +112:17
alex_xuthen we can discuss the list in next meeting12:17
johnthetubaguyI can try create them all this afternoon, that should help stop us having two etherpads I guess12:17
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: cool12:17
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: so we just waiting for you? or create temp one?12:17
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johnthetubaguyalex_xu: I don't mind, I will create the official one this afternoon12:18
johnthetubaguyprobably worth just waiting12:18
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: ok, we just waiting12:18
johnthetubaguy#action johnthetubaguy to sort out etherpads for API session, and send link to alex_xu12:19
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: thanks12:19
alex_xu#action nova api team review the api session list, and free to add item, and discuss that in next meeting12:19
alex_xuso let's move one12:19
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alex_xu#topic API Documentation12:20
alex_xuAPI Concept Doc12:20
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/22625312:20
alex_xuthis one already merged, so we want to track the TODO?12:20
alex_xuemm...no response12:21
johnthetubaguyso ideally yes12:22
johnthetubaguymaybe a blueprint for those too?12:22
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johnthetubaguyspecless blueprint that is12:22
alex_xuyea, blueprint also good12:22
johnthetubaguyif you can create it, I can get that approved12:22
gmann_yea and track all TODO there who all working ..12:22
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alex_xuok, let me create one and create an etherpad track that.12:23
johnthetubaguyif we have good commit messages, attached to a single gerrit topic, it should be OK12:23
alex_xu#action alex_xu create bp and etherpad to track the concept doc work12:23
sdaguewe could just use a tag instead12:23
sdagueor something that's searchable12:23
alex_xusdague: good idea12:24
sdagueor, honestly, we can search by file12:24
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alex_xuhow about APIConceptDoc?12:24
johnthetubaguyI just like the blueprint, because it raises the review priority automatically12:24
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: ok12:24
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alex_xucool, that mor eeasy12:25
alex_xuok, so let's move on12:26
alex_xuSwagger Doc Generate12:26
alex_xuI think there is probably two choice, one is generated from tempest which proposed by oomichi, another one is generated from nova code base. I worked out a PoC  of generated swagger from nova code base.12:26
alex_xuI think this is good for us to compare which one better.12:27
johnthetubaguyseems like it has to be in nova12:27
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/23344612:27
johnthetubaguyI know that means moving those json response files, but thats fine12:27
alex_xuyea, at least nova have more info12:27
gmann_johnthetubaguy: yea, response file in Nova is really good12:27
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sdaguealex_xu: can those be broken into more files?12:28
gmann_currently those went in Tempest-lib along with other tempest service clients12:28
alex_xusdague: I think it can, at least move the json-schema into more files12:28
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gmann_sdague: alex_xu :may be ref of request and response file in swager file ?12:29
gmann_and keep schema in separate12:29
alex_xugmann_: yea, something like that12:29
alex_xuand the nova code base also need some change12:29
sdaguebecause I think if we had units the size of - x-get-2.10-2.12 that would be good12:29
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sdaguefiles this large get a little lost12:29
alex_xusdague: yea12:29
alex_xu1. The microversion should declare on the top of method. Which is used to iterate the supported version for an api, but current some microversions are coding deep into the code.12:30
alex_xu2. We haven't repsonse json-schema, which are in the tempest12:30
alex_xu3. 3. For no more extension, we need adjust our api samples test only run with all the extensions.12:30
sdagueyeh, but it's only in tempest because it didn't exist in the project12:30
alex_xugmann_: just take the last one12:30
sdagueif we bring that bit back it's fine12:30
johnthetubaguysdague: +112:30
gmann_so we will do response validation option in nova?12:31
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johnthetubaguywe can add some functional tests for that, if we want12:31
gmann_because tempest would not be able to do till those are given by Nova through some API etc12:31
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gmann_and remove validation from Tempest? and do in nova side only12:32
alex_xumaybe just change the api-sample test to validate response?12:32
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sdaguegmann_: I think the point is that tempest could consume them from nova12:32
sdagueinstead of inventing them on it's own12:32
gmann_sdague: yea12:32
sdagueso, one last thing, just because it's here12:32
sdague    "paths": {12:33
sdague        "/{project_id}/os-keypairs": {12:33
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sdagueI started poking at what's required to actually get project_id out of our urls12:33
sdaguebecause it's in a really weird place where it's only there due to service catalog, but sometimes it's hardcoded because of that convention12:33
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sdaguewe actually explode because of novaclient version negotiation12:34
sdaguebut, the thing I wanted to bring up, is are folks on board with getting rid of project_id in urls?12:35
johnthetubaguyso I think its a good idea, certainly getting it out of the service catalog12:35
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johnthetubaguyit feels like is will need a microversion bump, etc12:35
sdagueyeh, I'm trying to figure out all the code that we're going to need for this12:36
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: I also think about that12:36
edleafeyes, I think that only swift has a serious issue with that12:36
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johnthetubaguybut for that service catalog standardisation, it would be great to remove the tenant first12:36
sdagueand, yes it will, but we kind of need to backport this as well12:36
johnthetubaguya backport?12:36
gmann_cannot we do on base?12:36
sdaguethe thing that I think needs backporting is project_id being optional in the url12:37
gmann_and support both but ignore who all passing in url12:37
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johnthetubaguyah, backporting to v2.0 you mean?12:37
alex_xuoptional sounds ok12:37
sdagueand liberty12:37
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sdagueso that there will be a microversion where you are 100% sure you don't need it12:38
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johnthetubaguynot sure we can backport that to liberty... but thats a separate debate12:38
sdagueanyway, we'll have to talk this through12:38
sdaguethe other thing we kind of need is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/233779/12:38
johnthetubaguyyeah, I mean a project id of "key-pair" could be interesting12:38
sdaguebecause the endpoint you get from keystone is /v2.1/$id12:39
sdaguebut if you GET that today it's a 40412:39
sdagueyou have to know you have to strip the $id12:39
sdaguewhich is super gorpy12:39
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johnthetubaguyouch, thats terrible, yeah12:39
sdaguethat has odd implications for microversions12:39
sdaguemaybe we can talk some of this through at summit, I'm trying to get enough code up to figure out all the rough edges12:40
johnthetubaguythat would be a good thing to debate12:40
johnthetubaguyonce we have the options on the table12:40
johnthetubaguygetting a sane service catalog seems like a good mitaka aim, alongside docs12:40
alex_xuso do we need bp and spec for generate swagger and remove project_id now? or after the summit discussion12:41
sdaguealex_xu: I think after the summit12:41
alex_xusdague: ok, cool12:41
johnthetubaguyI am find with doing the swagger one now, if you want to get that advertised12:41
johnthetubaguyso going back a step12:42
sdagueyeh, swagger is fine12:42
johnthetubaguydo you have a link to the tempest based one12:42
johnthetubaguyfrom oomichi12:42
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: no, we haven't, oomichi didn't have chance wrote one yet12:42
johnthetubaguyah, so maybe thats a good thing12:43
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johnthetubaguylets focus on moving stuff into Nova, so it can live in nova12:43
alex_xuso let me continue update the poc making it show more thing, and I need talk with doc team, see how to match the ui with microversion extend12:44
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johnthetubaguyfwiw I think this is part of our transition away from assuming magic people will create all our docs for us12:44
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johnthetubaguyalex_xu: yeah, annegentle and someone I can't remember has the swagger prototypes we can link into I believe12:44
johnthetubaguywith all the themes applied12:44
johnthetubaguyso microversion wise, I think its a whole swagger tree for each version12:45
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea, they have ui, and need nail down with them about how to extend swagger to support microversion12:45
johnthetubaguyI thought that was kinda decided in some ways?12:45
johnthetubaguywe have a different doc for v2.1 and v2.2... v2.12 etc12:46
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: already decided? actually in that poc I put all the version  in the same file12:46
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johnthetubaguyah, so I think we need to generate a doc for each version12:46
annegentlealex_xu: hey I'm here12:46
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: but I remember we said we can have drop list two select version for each api12:46
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johnthetubaguyand it references where it changed in the past, or something like that12:46
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johnthetubaguyalex_xu: yeah, thats what I am remembering too12:46
alex_xuannegentle: hey, something you have interesting https://review.openstack.org/23344612:47
alex_xuannegentle: and I think I need your help later12:47
gmann_yea but in that case too we need separate doc which gets replaced like something on drop down list12:47
annegentlealex_xu: yeah, drop list, something like this: https://libgit2.github.com/libgit2/#HEAD we talked about in Vancouver12:47
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annegentlealex_xu: oh, exciting12:48
alex_xuok, change the version, then change the whole doc to another version?12:48
annegentlealex_xu: johnthetubaguy: russellsim can make a UI as we want12:48
alex_xuannegentle: :)12:48
johnthetubaguyyeah, I quite liked the highlighting here: https://libgit2.github.com/libgit2/#v0.15.012:48
johnthetubaguythat seems to work12:49
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johnthetubaguyseems to link to all the versions12:49
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johnthetubaguyso yeah, lets do whatever makes that happen :)12:49
gmann_in our case we can highlight the API got changed between versions12:49
gmann_which gives very clear view12:49
annegentlealex_xu: so you've decorated keypairs, do you imagine it'll take the release to decorate all calls?12:50
alex_xuok, if we generate swagger for each version, then probably needn't any extend for swagger spec12:50
annegentlealex_xu: I think the only vendor extension we need is for POST actions12:50
johnthetubaguydoes anyone know what orange means here: https://libgit2.github.com/libgit2/#v0.21.3/group/commit/git_commit_create12:50
johnthetubaguygreen means add I guess12:51
johnthetubaguyis orange change?12:51
alex_xuannegentle: oops, sorry, I didn't get your mean12:51
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: looks like12:51
sdagueit's a param add in at least one case12:51
alex_xuannegentle: you mean we need doc all the calls? the code should work with the api without decorator first, then later we fill all the doc for all the api12:51
annegentlealex_xu: ok12:52
alex_xulooks like we will run out of time12:52
johnthetubaguysdague: yeah, I saw the id change,12:52
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alex_xu10 mins left12:52
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alex_xuhow about we talk that offline, let move on first12:52
johnthetubaguyyeah, this is important, super happy to see progress on this12:52
annegentlealex_xu: nice work12:53
alex_xuannegentle: thanks12:53
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alex_xuso move on12:53
alex_xu#topic API futures - specs12:53
alex_xu#topic API futures - specs12:53
alex_xuI have question, what kind of rule for which spec should bring up at here?12:53
alex_xusdague: do you have any suggestion ^?12:54
sdagueI think APIImpact tag is good to search on12:54
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alex_xuso we want to go through all the spec at here?12:54
johnthetubaguymore its a raise awareness12:55
alex_xucurrently we probably have 23 specs until yesterday12:55
johnthetubaguyand cover sticking points12:55
johnthetubaguyat least thats what I was thinking12:55
johnthetubaguyso we should all go away and review those specs, ideally, and bring back any issues to next weeks meeting?12:55
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johnthetubaguynow thats probably two weeks work12:55
alex_xuok, actually i prepare some, but we didn't have time12:56
sdagueyeh, it's tough with summit on the horizon12:56
johnthetubaguyI have tried to catagorise specs here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-spec-review-tracking12:56
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alex_xujust bring up this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180469/12:56
alex_xudo we need microversion for it?12:56
alex_xuThis one change the overquota from 400 to 403, so I think it need Microversion right?12:56
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johnthetubaguywe should only do the new thing for folks requesting the new microversion, I guess, thats the question12:57
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sdaguethat's the issue12:57
johnthetubaguyI mean the user will have always expected both responses as possible12:57
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johnthetubaguythe problem is how does the user deal with the error code12:57
sdaguealex_xu: I think it should be a microversion. I still think 403 is the wrong call here. But apparently I lost that one with cdent12:58
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johnthetubaguyI don't like policy and quota having the same response myself, either12:58
alex_xusdague: ok12:58
sdaguebut, honestly, I'd rather not adjust this one until we get the error spec out of API wg12:58
johnthetubaguybut the alternatives seem to have been dissmissed12:58
sdaguebecause I think distinguishing it is important12:58
alex_xusdague: ok, that also sounds a plan12:59
johnthetubaguy+1 I see this as dependent on the API WG12:59
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alex_xuok 1 mins left12:59
jichenok, I will mark this as WIP12:59
alex_xu#topic open12:59
alex_xujichen: thanks :)12:59
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jichenalex_xu: thanks for bring this out :)12:59
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alex_xujichen: np12:59
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alex_xuso nothing more13:00
alex_xuit's time to close13:00
alex_xuthanks all!13:00
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: thank you!13:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 13 13:00:22 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:00
gmann_thanks all13:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-10-13-12.00.html13:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-10-13-12.00.txt13:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-10-13-12.00.log.html13:00
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: np13:00
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yanyanhu#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 13 13:00:54 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
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lixinhuiWhere is Qiming13:01
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yanyanhusince Qiming is in another call conference, I will hold this meeting :)13:01
yanyanhuhope he can join us later13:01
lixinhuiOkay :)13:01
yanyanhuplease feel free to add items to the agenda13:02
yanyanhu#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda13:02
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yanyanhu#topic  deletion policy handling CLUSTER_DEL_NODES13:02
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yanyanhuso the first thing we may want to talk about is the patch about deletion policy proposed by haiwei13:03
yanyanhuhi, haiwei, could you please give us some summary about it?13:03
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yanyanhualthough I guess you're still working on it13:04
yanyanhuhi, elynn :)13:04
haiweideletion policy's TARGET contains CLUSTER_DEL_NODES action13:04
haiweibut cluster_del_nodes action will delete specific nodes13:04
haiweiso I thought deletion policy should not take effect when this action happens13:05
haiweimaybe some of you will think the same13:05
yanyanhuhmm, actually we don't need deletion policy to choose candidates for CLUSTER_DEL_NODE action13:05
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haiweibut Qiming noticed me there are other rules like grace_period and destroy_after_delete in deletion policy which will work for cluster_del_nodes action13:06
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yanyanhuyes, we just made a discussion about these two properties today13:06
haiweiright, yanyanhu13:06
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haiweithese two rules are not working currently , I will try it fix it13:07
yanyanhuactually we thought that maybe we should let end user to decide whether they want to destroy a node completely after it is deleted from a cluster13:07
yanyanhuand also the grace period setting13:07
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haiweihttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/232953/   this is the patch13:08
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haiweiyes, end user can define it in both deletion policy file and the command line13:08
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yanyanhuso the basic rule is if users specify the exact nodes they want to delete from cluster, they need to take responsibility to decide these two settings13:09
haiweiand we will add a destroy_after_delete option for it13:09
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yanyanhuand about the comment I left before, I think I was wrong13:09
haiweiwelcome to review the patch after I pushed it13:09
haiweiwe can discuss it yanyanhu, if you have any questions13:10
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yanyanhuonce user decided the deletion candidates, the deletion policy should not deny it13:10
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haiweiI also made mistakes at first13:10
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yanyanhuok, lets make further discussion about this patch later13:11
haiweithe point is grace_period and destroy_after_delete rules13:11
haiweiwe can move on13:12
yanyanhu#topic two placement policies or just one13:12
*** openstack changes topic to "two placement policies or just one (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:12
yanyanhuhi, lixinhui, I saw you and liuwei are also working on this workitem recently13:12
yanyanhuQiming just proposed a patch of placement policy for cross-region yesterday13:13
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lixinhuiI saw it13:13
yanyanhuit is from the one for cross-az I think13:13
lixinhuiI will find more time to review taht13:14
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yanyanhuso we haven't decided whether we should combine these two placement policies since their logic of building placement plan are the same13:14
yanyanhulixinhui, thanks :)13:14
lixinhuibut not sure what does that mean by the topic13:14
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yanyanhuwe hope to user the same placement policy to support cross-az and cross-region13:15
yanyanhuif there is no much conflict13:15
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yanyanhubut it seems a little difficult13:16
haiweiyanyanhu, currently which two patches are almost the same, I saw three patches about placement policy, Qiming, lixinhui and liuwei13:16
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lixinhuibut I think more complex for across region13:16
jruanoyes they both seem to be addressing placement13:16
yanyanhuI think liuwei and qiming's13:16
yanyanhujruano, yes13:17
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jruanomakes sense to try to use one13:17
yanyanhulixinhui, right, we found some problems here13:17
yanyanhusince region is usually carried in context and is supported by most openstack services13:17
yanyanhubut az is different13:17
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yanyanhuonly limited services support it (only nova and cinder now I guess)?13:18
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elynnIs there any benefit to use one instead of two?13:18
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lixinhuigood question, elynn13:18
lixinhuifrom my point of view13:18
yanyanhuelynn, reduce the complication of policy type managing I guess :)13:18
lixinhuiI think there should be more region specfic logic there instead of current code13:19
haiweiI think one is better13:19
lixinhuiI balancing13:19
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yanyanhuhmm, actually I also discussed this with Qiming this afternoon and we also haven't got conclusion...13:20
lixinhuiby design, liuwei's policy can work together with mine13:20
haiweipeople will get confused by two placement policies if they are actually doing the same job13:20
yanyanhulixinhui, yes13:20
yanyanhuI think so13:20
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yanyanhuhaiwei, but putting them together could make the implementation of placement policy very complicated13:21
haiweilixinhui, that means the patches are doing different jobs?13:21
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lixinhuiyes, yanyanhu13:21
lixinhuibut region is different13:21
elynnagree with yanyanhu13:21
yanyanhuI guess maybe we can split common functiona out13:22
lixinhuidespite now, the logic may looks similar but there should be more difference in future13:22
haiweiI am not familiar with placement policy, what about making one multi-region placement policy, the other multi-az placement policy??13:22
yanyanhuhaiwei, yes, maybe we should follow this way13:22
elynnextract common function would be a good idea.13:23
lixinhuiI am not sure if this is a right moment to work on trgion13:23
elynnBut keep them two policy13:23
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lixinhuiwhat scenarios to drive region work?13:23
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yanyanhulixinhui, you mean the use case of cross-region node placement?13:24
yanyanhuI think hybrid cloud is one of them13:24
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lixinhuioh, okay13:24
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elynnlixinhui: And site disaster recovery13:25
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lixinhuiuseful but complex13:25
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lixinhuidoes current logic of across region well serve the two cases?13:26
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yanyanhue.g. you have a small region which undertake your workload in most time. But one day, you find the capacity of this region is insufficient for your workload, you may want to scale into another larger region:)13:26
elynnyes, it might be complicate to handle multi region placement.13:26
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yanyanhuelynn, lixinhui, yes, we need to think it through13:27
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lixinhuiokay, I will read the patch then catch you all for more discussio13:27
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yanyanhuok, I think we need more discussion about this topic. Maybe we can first look through these three patches and then make more talk about it :)13:28
yanyanhulixinhui, thanks:)13:28
yanyanhuok, lets move on13:28
yanyanhu#topic big tent proposal review13:28
*** openstack changes topic to "big tent proposal review (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:28
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yanyanhuI saw Qiming just propose a draft about application for bigtent13:29
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yanyanhuthis is a hard work :)13:29
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yanyanhuhope you guys can help to review and any comments will be very helpful13:30
elynnWhat is big tent for?13:30
elynnChanging namespace from stackforge to openstack?13:31
yanyanhuhi, elynn, I think it's about the principle for accepting new projects who want to join openstack family13:31
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yanyanhuelynn, nope I think. That should be the retirement of stackforge13:32
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haiweielynn, the big tent means all the openstack project13:32
yanyanhulet me try to find the patch13:32
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yanyanhuhi, elynn, this is the patch and discussion about the retirement of stackforge13:33
yanyanhuso I guess also stackforge projects will be migrate to openstack namespace after 17th Oct.13:33
yanyanhuif they will13:33
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elynnOK, got it.13:34
jruanobig tent carries atc as well13:34
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yanyanhubut if a project wants to get the approval of TC, it needs to propose the application and accept review13:34
yanyanhujruano, yes13:34
elynnIf a project in big tent , that means it's an official and mature project?13:34
yanyanhuelynn, I guess so13:34
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jruanoblessed by the tc13:34
yanyanhuwe usually call them 'TC-approved' projects13:35
haiweimaybe not mature, but official project13:35
yanyanhuso we really should try :)13:35
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yanyanhuhope more people can join us to make the project better :)13:35
haiweiso help review the patch13:35
yanyanhustronger, more mature13:35
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yanyanhuyes, appreciated for any suggestion :)13:36
elynnWill review the patch after meeting ;)13:37
yanyanhuthanks :)13:37
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yanyanhuok, let move to next topic13:37
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yanyanhu#topic PTL election13:37
*** openstack changes topic to "PTL election (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:37
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yanyanhuQiming put this item in the agenda13:38
haiweiit's strange that senlin doesn't have a PTL yet :)13:38
yanyanhuwe need to make the election now?13:38
haiweiI thought he was the PTL13:38
elynnI thought Qiming was the PTL13:38
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yanyanhuat least we have a candidates now:)13:38
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haiweiI think since we will elect it, we should do it formally13:39
haiweilike other projects13:39
yanyanhuok, so let me start a vote13:39
haiweiuse the vote tool13:39
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haiweicool, yanyanhu13:39
elynnHe is the only candidate, still need to vote?13:39
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yanyanhuactually we dont I think :)13:40
yanyanhuanyone else want to join the competition?13:40
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haiweiit is not bad to vote13:41
jruanoprobably needs to be formal for move to big tent13:41
yanyanhuactually after getting familiar with the project, everyone can have a try I think13:41
yanyanhujruano, yes, I guess so13:41
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yanyanhuok, so since only one candidate now, I think we can make the decision13:42
jruanoi vote qi ming :)13:42
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elynnQiming +113:42
yanyanhu+1 from me13:42
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yanyanhuok, we have decided it13:43
lawrancejingQiming +113:43
jruanohopefully he accepts13:43
haiweiwhat about senlin-dashboard's PTL?13:43
yanyanhujruano, ;p13:43
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haiweithe same?13:44
yanyanhuhaiwei, nope I think13:44
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yanyanhuthey need their own PTL I guess13:44
haiweineed a PTL also?13:44
haiweinot decided here13:44
yanyanhunot very sure about it, but I guess so13:44
yanyanhuI will talk with Qiming and zhengguo about it13:44
lawrancejingsenlin-dashboard could have the same PTL -> Qiming13:45
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haiweimaybe zhengguo will run for it13:45
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yanyanhuyes, so I guess a discussion is needed :)13:46
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yanyanhusince both them are not here, maybe we can talk about it later13:46
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yanyanhu#topic open discussions13:46
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:46
yanyanhuso now is the open discussion13:47
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yanyanhuanyone of you guys have decided to join the summit?13:47
haiweiabout the big tent application  patch , when is the deadline of review locally?13:48
haiweiI should be there13:48
lawrancejingi will go to the summit13:48
elynnDon't get the ticket from IBM T_T13:48
yanyanhuhaiwei, I'm not sure about it. But I guess there is no deadline for this kind of application13:48
yanyanhuelynn, sigh...13:48
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yanyanhuhi, jruano, will you be there13:48
yanyanhuand also lixinhui ?13:48
jruanoyes i am going13:48
haiweiI mean we will push another patch for TC to review after we review it locally13:49
jruanowill you be there yanyan13:49
elynnI think you can discuss this patch at summit13:49
yanyanhuoh, haiwei, I think after we get feedback from all guys, we can propose the applicatoin formally13:49
yanyanhujruano, yes :)13:49
yanyanhuI will go to tokyo with Qiming together13:49
jruanogreat. we should do a meetup13:50
yanyanhuelynn, sure13:50
haiweiyes, so I think we need a deadline for the formal proposal, yanyanhu13:50
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yanyanhuhaiwei, yes, I guess we will make the proposal before summit13:50
haiweiwe should try to be accepted before the summit13:51
yanyanhujust try our best:)13:51
haiweiis there any information about the meeting room for senlin team?13:51
yanyanhuhaiwei, no yet ;(13:51
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haiweiit seems very limited13:52
yanyanhuI guess the meeting room is very limited13:52
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yanyanhuhope we can get one13:52
yanyanhuin worst case, we can have a meal or coffee :)13:52
haiweithere is no big enough place to hold so many people in Tokyo13:52
yanyanhuand make our discussion13:53
yanyanhuok, is there any other topics you guys want to discuss?13:54
yanyanhuwe still have 5 mins left13:54
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haiweino from me13:54
jruanoim good13:55
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elynnnot for me13:55
yanyanhuhi, elynn, lawrancejing, lixinhui, anything else?13:55
yanyanhuok, so lets end the meeting13:55
yanyanhuthank you so much for joining :)13:56
haiweiby the way, good job for charging the meeting13:56
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yanyanhuthanks :)13:56
yanyanhulets move back to senlin channel and release the meeting channel13:56
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:56
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 13 13:56:41 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:56
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-10-13-13.00.html13:56
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-10-13-13.00.txt13:56
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-10-13-13.00.log.html13:56
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* carl_baldwin wondering if he missed a notice cancelling the Neutron drivers meeting.15:03
kevinbentonWe're all deadlocked waiting for someone else to start :)15:03
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armaxhi guys15:05
armaxsorry I am late15:05
armaxdo we have quorum?15:06
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kevinbentonamotoki: ping15:07
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armaxdougwig: ping15:07
armaxmestery: ping15:07
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mesteryarmax: Howdy! I will be here for about 30 minutes or so :)15:08
kevinbentonSo Doug might be the only one missing15:08
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armaxI am figuring out whether we need an RC315:09
mesteryI don't think we do, do we armax ?15:09
armaxwe had too many breakages this week15:09
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armaxok, let’s cancel this one..I am sorry but there’s too much fire fighting to do15:10
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carl_baldwinarmax: ack and thanks15:11
mesterythanks armax15:11
carl_baldwinLet me know if I need to join the firefight.15:11
armaxmy apologises for not giving you notice15:11
amotokiack and thanks15:11
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armaxjust one update15:12
armaxI did clean up the RFE bug list according to last week’s decision of using an rfe-approved bug15:12
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vilobhmm11hello all16:06
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asselin__#startmeeting third-party17:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 13 17:02:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is asselin__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'17:02
asselin__hi, who's here from 3rd party working meeting?17:02
mmedvedehey asselin__ :)17:02
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asselin__Hi, sorry I'm late, dealing with some internal issues17:03
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asselin__#topic announcements17:04
*** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:04
asselin__anyone have any announcements?17:04
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mmedvedejust a reminder on stackforge deprecation17:05
skylerbergThe governance patch merged this morning for CI Watch.17:05
asselin__congrats :)17:05
mmedvedeI wonder what would be the next step for to add ciwatch cores17:05
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asselin__good question, fungi was going to nominate, we should ask again in -infra or in the meeting today.17:06
funginominate for...?17:06
asselin__ci-watch core17:06
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fungii'll add them, just let me know who should be reviewing/approving17:07
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asselin__I'll nominate skylerberg and mmedvede for your nomination :)17:07
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mmedvedeasselin__ is already core there, I believe17:07
mmedvedeasselin__: I accept the nomination :)17:08
asselin__really? I thought I was there for 2 minutes only. :)17:08
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mmedvedeoh, maybe17:08
mmedvedeI did not check again17:08
fungiahh, yeah need to run our script to fix up those groups first. doing that now17:08
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asselin__thanks fungi17:10
mmedvedethank you fungi17:10
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asselin__another announcement: single-node ci puppet class landed last week https://review.openstack.org/#/c/200330/17:10
fungiskylerberg: what's your gerrit name/id/something?17:10
skylerbergfungi: sberg17:11
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fungimmedvede: and yours?17:11
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mmedvedefungi: should be msmedved17:12
mmedvedeor mmedvede, email mmedvede@us.ibm.com17:12
fungiasselin__: skylerberg: mmedvede: welcome to ciwatch-core17:12
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skylerbergfungi: thanks :)17:12
asselin__thanks :)17:12
mmedvedefungi: \o/17:12
asselin__let me fun begin17:13
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mmedvedeyay, can do some merging there, finally17:13
fungithank you all!17:13
asselin__what a great annoucement :)17:13
asselin__#topic open discussion17:14
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mmedvedeok, so I did more work on puppet-ciwatch module17:14
asselin__so there's no agenda today (my bad)17:14
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asselin__#topic puppet-ciwatch17:14
*** openstack changes topic to "puppet-ciwatch (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:14
mmedvedeand deployed ciwatch internally17:14
mmedvede#link WIP puppet-ciwatch https://review.openstack.org/22608917:14
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mmedvedeplus there are two patches to get official home for puppet module17:15
mmedvede#link project config patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/231699/17:15
mmedvede#link governance https://review.openstack.org/#/c/231698/17:16
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mmedvedethe module does deploy with mysql17:16
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mmedvedeI wondered if we should use postgres instead, skylerberg mentioned that is what was used for http://ci-watch.tintri.com17:17
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mmedvedeI need to run is longer. E.g. today for no apparent reason mysqld stopped on my server17:17
skylerbergmmedvede: I think mysql should be fine.17:18
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mmedvedeskylerberg: would you have time to do any work on ciwatch? I was thinking to maybe to transition to cookiecutter -generated project structure17:20
mmedvede#link https://github.com/openstack-dev/cookiecutter17:20
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skylerbergmmedvede: Yes, I will have some time, but it will be limited and unpredictable.17:20
mmedvedebasically, it creates all we need to enable infra tests, and more17:20
asselin_Hi sorry dropped17:20
skylerbergmmedvede: Sounds like a good idea.17:21
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mmedvedeasselin_: I was suggesting to use openstack-dev/cookiecutter template on ciwatch17:21
skylerbergLet's use https://launchpad.net/ciwatch to start tracking changes we want to make.17:21
mmedvedeskylerberg: good point17:22
mmedvedeshould we also use bugs to track features we want to implement?17:22
skylerbergThen I can assign tasks to myself when I do have time.17:22
skylerbergmmedvede: That is what I was thinking.17:22
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skylerbergI am open to other suggestions though.17:23
asselin_skylerberg, I think you can add myself and mmedvede to the maintainers17:23
mmedvedeworks for me to use launchpad for task tracking/ division17:23
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skylerbergasselin_, mmedvede: What are your launchpad ids?17:24
mmedvedeskylerberg: https://launchpad.net/~msmedved17:24
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asselin_mmedvede, let us know when we should start reviewing the patches17:26
mmedvedeasselin_: I think it is safe to merge the ciwatch patches that are just history transfer from third-party-ci-tools17:27
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asselin_+1, I meant the puppet-ciwatch ones, or should we wait until they're proposed to the new puppet-ciwatch project17:28
mmedvedeasselin_: as I would work on puppet-ciwatch, I'll find more things to fix in ciwatch itself17:28
mmedvedeasselin_: oh, that one we should not merge17:28
asselin_ok, so let's merge the historical changes, apply cookiecutter on ciwatch, and review the puppet-ciwatch project-config patch so we can get that started.17:30
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mmedvedeasselin_: +1, that would get us moving. puppet-ciwatch can also start using the new ciwatch source17:31
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asselin_and start to use launchpad to track issues/features17:31
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asselin_anything else?17:32
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mmedvedeon ciwatch, I had question to skylerberg17:33
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mmedvedebut can talk later, if we have something else to discuss now17:33
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asselin_I wanted to discuss summit planning a bit. mmedvede will you be there?17:34
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skylerbergmmedvede: Go ahead17:34
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mmedvedeskylerberg: is there any reason that gerrit events are first stored into test log, and then can be loaded to db separately.17:35
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mmedvedeasselin_: no, unfortunately would not make it to summit. Next one definitely17:35
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skylerbergmmedvede: That is mostly for testing during development. I wanted to be able to quickly populate the database with real data after making changes to the database schema.17:36
mmedvedeskylerberg: ok. I figured it was for historical reason. Was not apparent that it is not necessary to manually run db populate17:37
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skylerbergmmedvede: Correct. It was useful during development because I could load in a log from the event stream even if I didn't have ciwatch running.17:38
mmedvedeskylerberg: it is a good thing to have. Just need to update the doc later17:38
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mmedvedeasselin_: I have nothing else, please proceed17:39
asselin_I also think it's useful17:39
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asselin_for development & testing17:39
mmedvedeon a tangent, I was thinking it might be possible to seed the db from zuul logs17:40
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asselin_that's true, the debug logs capture the gerrit event stream17:40
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skylerbergmmedvede: That could be nice. It would be great to have a data source that sticks around. Right now if there is a networking problem, data is missed and can't be found.17:40
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mmedvedealso, it seems like it does not add duplicates, so you can seed it from different sources, if I am correct, and fill the gaps17:41
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asselin_this is one of the disadvantages of reading the event stream. perhaps it would be good to also be able to queury the gerrit database17:41
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skylerbergmmedvede: That is correct. However, the new sources should be more current than old source or entries could be changed to not reflect a recheck.17:42
mmedvedeasselin_: real-time stream is nice, because it is real-time. But could add a check to validate if any events are missing, and use gerrit api to fill it17:42
skylerbergmmedvede: +117:43
asselin_mmedvede, +117:43
mmedvedeI would not worry about it now though, there are more important things to be done first :)17:43
mmedvedethank you :)17:43
asselin_yeah that can be added after the initial version is deployed17:43
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asselin_another issue I've noticed but didn't get a chance to confirm is that rechecks don't populate in ci-watch17:44
mmedvedeskylerberg: did you see any problems with db getting big after awhile?17:44
skylerbergasselin_: I should test it more, but they should update it.17:44
mmedvedeasselin_: yes, we also do not have general -1 (e.g. -1 that are not from failed job, but from failed merge)17:44
skylerbergmmedvede: I didn't see that, but I didn't haveit running that long and it was growing slowly.17:45
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skylerbergmmedvede: We could ask apoorvad to check how large the db is now.17:45
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skylerbergWe should periodically purge old entries from the db.17:46
apoorvadskylerberg: I will let you know in a few17:47
mmedvedeskylerberg: maybe purge largest items sooner? e.g. comments17:47
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skylerbergapoorvad: Thanks!17:47
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mmedvedethe older data is useful to have locally, e.g. simple fail/success should not take much space, but should allow to do stats17:48
skylerbergmmedvede: Yes, that would work.17:48
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asselin_Yeah I don't think comments are needed at all, right?17:48
mmedvedeasselin_: we got into feature discussion, sorry, we can get it done later, and open launchpad bugs for it17:48
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asselin_mmedvede, no problem, I don't think there are any other topics, and its' just the 3 of us17:49
asselin_and this is an important topic ;)17:49
mmedvedeasselin_: you wanted to talk about summit planning17:49
mmedvedeasselin_: yes, I like talking about features :)17:50
asselin_mmedvede, well seems to be just me here going :)17:50
* mmedvede is envious17:51
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* skylerberg is too17:51
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asselin_we don't have any official slots, but we can setup some unofficial talks. I'll reach out to the mailing list17:51
mmedvedeasselin_: advertise the working group there, more people here is better17:52
asselin_mmedvede, +117:52
mmedvedemore third-party CIs17:52
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asselin_yeah, we can try to recruit people to work on  ciwatch as well17:52
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skylerberg+1 :)17:53
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asselin_anything else you'd like to see happen?17:53
mmedvedeon ciwatch?17:53
asselin_in general for 3rd party ci17:54
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mmedvededuring the summit?17:54
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asselin_for the next 6 months17:54
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mmedvedewell, need to continue downstream-puppet effort17:54
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mmedvedeit helps a lot17:55
asselin_ci-watch, migrate people over to common-ci/downstream-puppet17:55
mmedvedeasselin_: you did a lot of good work there already17:55
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asselin_trying to see what's the next big thing needed, but perhaps just getting those two solid would be great17:56
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mmedvedeasselin_: yes17:57
mmedvedeapoorvad: so it is 140 MB?17:57
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mmedvede140 Kb does not seem sane17:58
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skylerbergapoorvad: the database should be postgres. I am not sure why mariadb would be on that system.17:58
apoorvadHmmm. That seems too small  to me17:58
asselin_ok, if there's nothing else I'd like to end the meeting. we can continue on openstack-third-party-ci17:58
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mmedvedeapoorvad: thank you for looking it up17:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:59
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openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 13 17:59:04 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-10-13-17.02.html17:59
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-10-13-17.02.txt17:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-10-13-17.02.log.html17:59
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stevemar_ping for ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub17:59
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lbragstadstevemar_ o/17:59
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stevemar_lets roll18:00
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stevemar_#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 13 18:00:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
stevemar_#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:00
dolphm \o/18:00
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stevemar_#topic design summit18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "design summit (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
* morgan runs away and hides18:00
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stevemar_the schedule is out18:01
stevemar_well, the keystone one anyway18:01
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stevemar_#link https://mitakadesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/Keystone#.VhQoFBNVhBc18:01
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dolphmstevemar_: nice work18:01
stevemar_i've created etherpads for all the sessions, and pre-populated them with content from our brain dump18:01
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samueldmqoi :)18:01
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bknudsonwe can take tuesday off18:01
dolphmcross-project day18:02
morganbknudson: I heard we also get to take monday off18:02
stevemar_bknudson: there are a few cross project sessions you should consider going to18:02
stevemar_bknudson-bot does not take days off18:02
gyeelike what, service catalog? :)18:02
morgangyee: yes18:02
marekdstevemar_: is the scedule for x-project ?18:02
morganbut other general x-project18:02
marekdis there a schedule out for x-project?18:02
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morganmarekd: there was a ML topic just sent out for feedback on it18:02
morganmaybe an hour ago?18:03
stevemar_#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-cross-project-session-planning18:03
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stevemar_that's the current plan for x-project session18:03
stevemar_there are A LOT18:03
stevemar_theres even one for federation18:03
marekdstevemar_: can't be!18:03
stevemar_at line 605ish,18:03
topolwhat day is cross project/18:03
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ayoungthere was some discussion from sdague and dhelman about the policu X=project18:03
stevemar_topol: it spans many days i think18:03
stevemar_ayoung: there is one for policy too!18:03
ayoungI think the focus will be on Bug 968696 issue18:04
openstackbug 968696 in Keystone ""admin"-ness not properly scoped" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968696 - Assigned to Adam Young (ayoung)18:04
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bknudsonall the summit topics should be cross-project18:04
bknudsonwe have a meetup for intra-project18:04
gyeeayoung, yay, congress18:04
gyeeI mean policy18:04
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stevemar_so if folks want to add more context to the federation and policy x-project session that would be cool :)18:05
stevemar_marekd: i think they want actionable items, even if it's just a call to action for more projects to be aware of it18:06
htrutastevemar_: the HMT one is very raw too18:06
marekdstevemar_: so this voting on the etherpad was for everybody or some super heroes?18:06
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stevemar_marekd: lol i think it's just for TC18:06
htrutafor what I've been seeing in liberty, we may have some other things to discuss there18:06
stevemar_they are kinda like a justice league...18:06
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marekdstevemar_: that's what i meant18:07
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stevemar_any other questions about the design sessions :)18:07
stevemar_requests / comments / don't throw tomatoes at me18:07
marekdjust kudos18:07
stevemar_if the area is something you're interested in, please try to populate the etherpad, it's in the sched link18:08
gyeestevemar_, so Friday meetups are going to be like last time at Vancouver?18:08
gyeedo whatever18:08
stevemar_gyee: yep18:08
samueldmqstevemar_: I think the sched looks good, nicely done :)18:08
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stevemar_i think bknudson wants us to all do code-reviews that day :)18:08
gyeesure, that'll work18:08
raildostevemar_: can we create a hangout air in the design session for who are not attending the summit? :)18:08
lbragstadjust curious, but are we going to plan on leveraging monday for anything?18:09
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marekdlbragstad: there is no summit on monday18:09
stevemar_raildo: hmm, i will try. at the minimum we'll be updating the etherpad as we go18:09
bknudsonI assume you're all doing code reviews all the time.18:09
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raildostevemar_: ok :)18:09
htrutabknudson: we are :D18:09
stevemar_lbragstad: monday is for touring tokyo18:09
lbragstadi imagine that would be the "get into town and get acclimated" day18:09
dolphmMobile* code reviews18:09
lbragstadok, works for me18:10
stevemar_alrighty, neeeeext18:10
gyeeI plan on hanging out with the ninjas18:10
stevemar_jamielennox: you around?18:10
bknudsonif you can find the ninjas they're not very good ones.18:10
stevemar_#topic auth plugins18:10
*** openstack changes topic to "auth plugins (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:10
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stevemar_this was something that bknudson brought up in this review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177227/18:11
stevemar_basically, should we be leveraging "extras" instead of creating new repos18:11
bknudsonwe've got too many repos18:11
gyeeoh the package dependency thingy18:11
stevemar_the justification for keystoneauth-saml2 was because we didn't want to force folks to carry lxml18:12
stevemar_but with setuptools 'extras' we can specify it in setup.cfg18:12
jamielennoxsimilarly kerberos18:12
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stevemar_and it's not there by default18:12
stevemar_jamielennox: yep18:12
bknudsonI think reviews will go faster if we have fewer repos18:12
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stevemar_so, is this something we want to set a precedent for?18:12
stevemar_bknudson: agreed18:12
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jamielennoxif we can squeeze them back into the repo then that would be easier18:13
bknudsononly trick might be that we have to do optional imports or something.18:13
jamielennoxbknudson: yep18:13
stevemar_thats only 1 issue, packaging and consumability are others18:13
marekdbknudson: how does that work?18:13
bknudsontry: import lxml except ImportError: lxml = None18:13
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marekdbknudson: oh lol18:13
marekdthis way18:13
bknudsonI think we have that in a few places already18:13
marekdbknudson: yes18:13
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marekdi thought there was smarter way18:14
jamielennoxi'm still not sure how packaging is going to handle this - but i guess that's not a problem for here18:14
bknudsonthere's probably something fancy with optional imports.18:14
gyeesilent failure is not good for supportability18:14
marekdbknudson: a decorator or generator18:14
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dstanekstevemar_: yes, not sure how distro packaging would work unless they just included the kitchen sink18:14
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stevemar_dstanek: well that's an issue for keystone right now isn't it?18:15
bknudsonsimilar to http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/python-keystoneclient/tree/keystoneclient/__init__.py18:15
jamielennoxgyee: it's not silent - they just don't raise the error until you actually try to use them18:15
marekdbknudson: jamielennox bknudson: so how is it going to work...i pip install keystoneauth and need to install lxml by hand?18:15
stevemar_we do this technique with ldap now18:15
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bknudsonpip install keystonauth[saml]18:15
jamielennoxmarekd: pip install keystoneauth[saml2]18:15
stevemar_i think there's a specific keystone-ldap package18:15
stevemar_jamielennox: bknudson not using pip though18:15
dstanekstevemar_: yep, i hear the complaints. that's why i say that :-)18:15
bknudsonpackagers can handle it however they want to.18:15
bknudsonif I was a packager I'd just put it all in keystoneauth18:16
marekdjamielennox: bknudson: ok, any code that already does that so i can start working on squeezing saml2 coe into ksa ?18:16
gyeejamielennox, ok, that's fine then18:16
ayoungI hate SAML18:16
marekdayoung: me too18:16
jamielennoxlxml is an easy dep to carry really, kerberos not so much18:16
stevemar_zigo: you around?18:16
jamielennoxif i was packaging this i'd just rely on lxml18:17
ayoungKerberos really should be an optional dependency on the session, not on the auth plugin anyway18:17
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gyeeayoung, so is x.50918:17
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bknudsonmarekd: if you can take a look at it and propose the change and it looks good I think we should go with it.18:17
ayounggyee, X509 is part of the HTTP code base, though18:17
jamielennoxayoung: x509 is both, kerberos not so much18:17
stevemar_#action get input from packagers for handling optional libs18:18
bknudsonwe never released keystoneauth-saml2?18:18
stevemar_bknudson: correct18:18
edmondswI would certainly hope distros DON'T include everything as prereqs just because one extra does... leave it up to the operator/ansible/etc. to determine what they need and don't need for optional dependencies18:18
bknudsonwe'll lose the git history unless we do something drastic18:18
edmondswthey can do that easily enough by looking at the setup.cfg18:18
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dstanekedmondsw: do you see the setup.cfg when you install the package?18:19
edmondswno, but you see it in git :)18:19
jamielennoxedmondsw: who would be looking at setup.cfg though?18:19
stevemar_meh, i'll poke around and ask zigo, i'll report my findings to the ML18:19
edmondswguys writing ansible/etc.18:20
marekdbknudson: i can propose something, but i am not sure how i should structure the code so there is any distinction between pip install keystoneauth and pip install[saml2]18:20
edmondswand let's face it... operators who aren't using something like that already have to go to git18:20
marekdpip install keystoneauth[saml2]18:20
jamielennoxstevemar_: i think it's one you should take to the list, lifeless will have an opinion and i'm sure the packagers will as well18:20
stevemar_marekd: just gotta create entry points18:20
marekdstevemar_: aha18:20
stevemar_jamielennox: cool18:20
bknudsonmarekd: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/setup.cfg#n2518:20
dstanekedmondsw: that's part of the complaining i hear18:20
jamielennoxmarekd: have a look, keystone itself does it18:20
edmondswdstanek, what is?18:20
stevemar_we already do this in keystone proper with our ldap support18:20
marekdjamielennox: ok18:21
lifelessjamielennox: stevemar_: context?18:21
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jamielennoxlifeless: what's going to happen with packaging if we put lots of pip optional dependencies18:21
marekdstevemar_: ok, so i am good18:21
dstanekedmondsw: having to go to git to figure it out18:21
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stevemar_lifeless: impact to packagers when setuptools has 'extra' dependcies18:21
jamielennoxlifeless: keystoneauth[saml2]18:21
edmondswdstanek, that's unsolvable18:21
dstanekedmondsw: and setup.cfg doesn't actually tell you what you need for a feature.18:21
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edmondswdstanek, oh, but it does...18:21
lifelessah right - so they translate to recommended dependencies in the distro world typically18:21
edmondswthat's exactly what the extras do18:21
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lifelessthey can in principle be translated to helper packages that only express tings in the dependency graph18:22
stevemar_lifeless: sounds like everything is packaged in18:22
dstanekedmondsw: nope, between ubuntu and fedora they have different package names18:22
bknudsonlifeless: have you heard any complaints from distros about use of extras?18:22
lifelesse.g. in Debian it might be python-keystoneauth-saml2 which is empty but has dependencies on the saml2 deps18:22
lifelessbknudson: I have not18:22
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lifelessbknudson: but that is likely low use measurement bias18:22
dstanekedmondsw: and then there have been times in the past where a python lib packaged for a dist also have a dep that you have to install18:23
dstanekedmondsw: sometimes it's pretty hard18:23
jamielennoxlifeless: so i only know rpm and the recommended doesn't exist there, but do we need to structure this to ensure they are seperatable?18:23
stevemar_lifeless: so in keystone you can do pip install keystone[ldap], does that mean there's a keystone-ldap package?18:23
jamielennoxlifeless: like obviously having things that might be split be in an __all__ is going to cause problems there18:23
lifelessstevemar_: there's a couple different ways it could be translated; thats one of them yes18:23
edmondswdstanek, setup.cfg will tell you what you need in python terms... yes, the distro might name their rpm/deb a little differently, but it shouldn't be hard to find18:24
lifelessjamielennox: so stuff in __all__ has to be defined always (but could be None)18:24
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lifelessand we can certainly make recommendations in pbr's docs for redistributors18:24
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lifelessso I think yeah, a list thread is a good idea18:24
jamielennoxstevemar_: i think keystone itself is less of a concern because it really doesn't matter if you have some extra packages there, keystoneauth on the other hand will be installed everywhere18:24
bknudsonjamielennox: marekd: it can't be imported by default, so check out the lazy importer we use in ksc -- http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/python-keystoneclient/tree/keystoneclient/__init__.py#n5218:24
lifelessI don't see any reason why it should make packagers grumpy (other than it being churn vs the status quo)18:25
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lifelessIt should be trivially handlable in deb/rpm/arch etc18:25
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jamielennoxbknudson: that got us around a very specific problem, i don't think we should intend to use that always18:25
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lifeless(since the minimum mechanical transform is an empty dep-only package)18:25
lifelessand every system can do tht18:25
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jamielennoxlifeless: oh, not actually split the code out into new packages, just the deps18:26
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jamielennoxlifeless: makes more sense, not sure what i was thinking18:26
lifelessjamielennox: yeah, extras do not imply code split out at all18:27
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jamielennoxi guess because we have/can do a clean split between deps18:27
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stevemar_(gonna switch topics in 3 minutes to make sure we have enough time)18:27
jamielennoxstevemar_: do it, resolve to get packager input on list18:27
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bknudsonwould it be better to split out the code? if so let's keep separate repos. it's not that big of a deal18:27
stevemar_jamielennox: rgr18:27
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lifelessbknudson: that can have high friction costs18:27
stevemar_to the mailing list!18:27
stevemar_#topic functional tests in keystone18:28
*** openstack changes topic to "functional tests in keystone (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:28
lifelessbknudson: I really think its worth keeping dev easy and low-friction if the externalities are tolerable18:28
jamielennoxbknudson: lets see what packagers say, if it's a problem we keep the repos beause we have them anyway18:28
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stevemar_marekd dstanek the floor is yours18:28
ayoungSo...looking in to getting IPA up and working for Functional testing...does it have to be Ubuntu 14.04?18:28
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edmondswkeystone is carrying several optional dependencies in requirements.txt that should really be extras in setup.cfg... passlib, oauthlib, pysaml218:28
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stevemar_mtreinish: fyi ^18:28
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stevemar_edmondsw: file a bug :P18:29
edmondswyeah :)18:29
lifelessayoung: we have centos slaves18:29
marekddstanek: here?18:29
lifelessayoung: I'm not sure if there are fedora slaves offhand18:29
bknudsoncentos for python 2.6?18:29
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dstanekstevemar_: i think marekd was just worried about the path we are taking18:29
ayounglifeless, centos?  Ubuntu Later than 14.04?18:29
ayoungCentos 7?18:29
dstanekand if it jives with everyone else18:29
marekdso we basically had a discussion about functional tests and whether things like that: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203258/ is fine18:30
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bknudsonbefore we go adding a bunch of functional tests there should be a gate job that at least verifies it works.18:30
stevemar_marekd: dstanek i think it's good to make sure everyone else knows whats up18:30
bknudsonor we need to come up with some way to verify18:30
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marekdi remember last week there was a concern that functional tests should validate backend (mysql, postgres) not just API responses18:30
dstanekthe new question is where do the tests go? in keystone or in tempest18:30
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stevemar_dstanek: i'd definitely say keystone18:31
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marekd^^ yes, then the convo earlier on evolved into something like that :-)18:31
jamielennoxi'm guessing it depends what you want the tests for18:31
stevemar_we can review the tests ourselves18:31
marekdjamielennox: i personally want to be automatize real workflows18:31
jamielennoxif you want them as part of the gate then keystone, if you want them as part of like a validation suite then tempest18:31
bknudsonwe can review changes to tempest, too18:31
marekdreal interaction between keystone and idp18:31
bknudsonand maybe they're faster at doing reviews than we are18:32
marekdreal interaction between ksa/ksc and some server (when testing clients)18:32
marekdwithout any mocks18:32
jamielennoxmarekd: that sounds like testing, so i'd say keystone/ksa18:32
mordredayoung: we have centos7, fedora22 and ubuntu-trusty available18:32
marekdjamielennox: yes18:32
ayoungmordred, OK, Centos7 is trivial, as is F2218:32
marekdjamielennox: you know, every change we do with federation i have to build my own env, setup, and run some code to make sure it works...18:33
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dstanekbknudson: are they faster?18:33
mordredmarekd: fwiw, we have functional tests in the shade repo that consume ksa and ksc to do things18:33
marekdmordred: great, we now need to have something for both federations for instance :-)18:33
mordredmarekd: I know that does not solve your immediate concern - but just to let you know there are some consume non-mocked tests running currently18:33
mordredmarekd: I have nothing configured to test any auth plugins other than v2password and v3password :)18:34
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jamielennoxmarekd: completely agree18:34
dstanekbknudson: my concern is i don't have any clarity for what they will accept and what they won't18:34
marekdmordred: clients was just a part of the 'problem' i think and my understanding federation (as it needs 3rd party peer) is  in the greaest need18:34
bknudsonthere's some review stats on http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/keystone-openreviews.html vs http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/tempest-openreviews.html18:34
lifelessmordred: why is nodepool openstck config in system-config? or perhaps I just don't understand the split18:34
mordredmarekd: ah! gotcha18:34
marekdmordred: we first need to be able to automatically build federation setup and be able to test server, than we can proceed to clients.18:35
bknudsondstanek: I don't know if they have specs or blueprints? probably.18:35
mordredlifeless: because it's templated via puppet because there are things we need to put into via config - project-config is all static files18:35
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mordredmarekd: this makes sense to me. I will be looking forward to copying and abusing your work once it's done...18:35
jamielennoxmarekd: do we care about multi-machine setups here?18:36
bknudsondstanek: we do have a qa liaison...18:36
lifelessmordred: ah, I thought project-config was 'things for openstack' vs system-config of 'things for folk to reuse'18:36
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stevemar_bknudson: dstanek let's keep the functional tests in house for now18:36
mordredas I want to test that federation works from my side too, but I have no idea how to set it up18:36
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ayoungmordred, I can help18:36
marekdjamielennox: we will need two keystones for k2k, but i think we agreed that we will try with single machine at the moment.18:36
bknudsoncan we get a gate job that runs the functional tests?18:36
jamielennoxmarekd: is it enough to run the IDP on the keystone box and assume we didn't fake anything or do you want to do proper multiple machines18:36
marekdjamielennox: idp like pysaml2 - agreed18:36
bknudson(the functional tests that we have now)18:36
mordredbknudson: that would be awesome18:36
dstanekbknudson: yes, i'll work on getting one up18:36
stevemar_dstanek: bknudson: that would be great18:37
bknudsonstevemar_: only great?18:37
dstanekbknudson: i'll add you to the review so i can get your +1 :-)18:37
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stevemar_bknudson: fantabulous?18:37
bknudsonthat's better18:37
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stevemar_dstanek: make it non-voting initially18:37
stevemar_or do an experimental job18:38
dstaneki agree with Tony the Tiger - it's greeeeeaaaat18:38
marekdanyway, guys, please have a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203258/ and up18:38
stevemar_#action review marek's functional test patches and staneks new gate job18:38
stevemar_#action review all the things18:38
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x95b52d0>18:38
marekdi will be adding more and proceed to something more fancy - authentication.18:38
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marekdstevemar_: he he18:39
mordredjamielennox: fwiw, we do have mulit-node testing available should you decide you need it18:39
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marekdmordred:  oh, great18:39
marekdwe might need one18:39
marekdat some point  for k2k18:39
stevemar_bknudson: you have the right attitide there18:39
dstanekmordred: decided. we need ot18:39
dstanekerrr. it18:39
mordredcool. we use it to test live migrations currently18:39
marekduness we can run two keystones on one VM18:39
jamielennoxmordred: sweet, they managed to get that going18:39
mordredoh yah18:39
bknudsonjust use docker.18:40
mordredclarkb is your man who actually fully understands it18:40
mordredbknudson: let's not just use docker - we have absolutely no pre-caching infrastructure for docker in the gate18:40
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clarkbyou could just run two keystones18:40
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clarkbwithout extra containers or dockers18:40
mordredwhich isn't to say we shouldn't grow some - but I believe you'll find getting that solid to be more work than not using it in this particular case18:40
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jamielennoxright, we should always be able to run this on different ports or set it up to work18:41
bknudsonwe'll need multiple dbs18:41
dstanekyes, backends are the issue18:42
jamielennoxright - devstack is not going to handle this18:42
marekdbknudson: yeah, that's the concern18:42
bknudsonall it takes is to pass a different db name.18:42
stevemar_we still need a bunch of devstack plugins, like the ones dstanek was making18:42
marekdstanek was proposing devstack booting a VM with a keystone configured there :D18:42
lbragstadwhat about a different table?18:42
jamielennoxit's just multiple config files18:42
ayounglbragstad, nope18:42
gyeecan we also have multiple instances of shibd on a same node?18:42
* lbragstad tries to get the words to come back 18:42
marekdgyee: which part?18:43
stevemar_lbragstad: one day18:43
ayoungCan a Keystone K2K with itself?18:43
gyeemarekd, for k2k we need shibd18:43
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marekdayoung: it should18:43
jamielennoxayoung: lol, umm.... i don't know18:43
gyeeayoung, it can18:43
ayoungMake that work18:43
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marekdayoung: such config is so ridiculous i've never tried that but....18:43
jamielennoxi'm not sure we should consider that a successful functional test18:43
marekdjamielennox: exactly18:44
stevemar_meh, this is all getting a bit off topic, there are other functional configurations, not just k2k18:44
gyeemarekd, we tried it and it works fine18:44
* marekd k2k is still far away in the functioal tests island18:44
stevemar_lets give ayoung some time to chat about admin-ness18:44
marekdgyee: aha, good to know stuff i helped to make works :-)18:44
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stevemar_#topic Supressing admin role for non-admin projects18:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Supressing admin role for non-admin projects (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:45
stevemar_ayoung: ^18:45
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ayoungso, the fix is to only allow the admin role on the admin proejct18:45
stevemar_ayoung: please tell us18:46
ayoungbecasue so mnuch is hard coded to only check the admin role.  THis, essentially, communicates which project is "admin"18:46
ayoungOk,. lets start with Henrynashs suggestion18:46
bknudsonyou don't want admin project to be able to boot instances and stuff, right?18:46
gyeeadmin should be by choice no accident :)18:46
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ayoungbknudson,  don't care if the ydo, not what it is there for though18:46
ayoung"make people update policy"18:47
ayoungwe can't./..most people don't touch policy18:47
ayoungand, even if we were, we would have no way to clear;y communicate "this is the admin project"18:47
ayoungwe'd have to templatize all of the policy files in glance neutron nova etc18:47
ayoungand fill in the project id18:48
jamielennoxwe don't because "this is the admin project" is never something we've tried to communicate18:48
ayoungand, we don't control the distribution mechanism18:48
samueldmqayoung: also, can we have a chained-k2K ? that means a keystone as SP, that needs another keystone SP to provide auth :p nvm18:48
haneef__stevemar: what is non-admin project?   project name is just a name. How do you define it?18:48
ayounghaneef__, there are certain operations not scoped to a proejct18:48
ayoungif we don't restrict where the "admin" role comes from, it means that anyone that can assign a role can assign the admin role, and thus compromise security18:49
ayoungso, effectively, we have said "only sysadmins can assign roles"18:49
david8huayoung, we needs to make people update policy or provide a way to make policy changes less painful.18:49
bknudsonput that in the commit message18:49
ayoungwhich , of course, does not scale too well18:49
ayoungdavid8hu, I tried that route18:50
gyeewhat's the point of assigning a role if you can only get it under some conditions?18:50
ayounggyee, all the other roles...18:50
stevemar_aren't policies updated every upgrade?18:50
ayoungmost important, you can add someone to your own project, or remove them18:50
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ayoungstevemar_, that is outside the scope of what openstack upstream can control18:50
ayoungis it puppte, ansible, chef, or bash?18:50
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ayoungDynamic policy was, effectivly, an internalized config management tool to solve this.  But, its not going to hap[p[en quickly18:51
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ayoungso, lets lay off on dynamic policy and just fix the problem first18:51
amakarovayoung, if keystone can store policies for entire openstack, it can modify it too, no? All we have to do is to convince others to use stored policies instead of local files18:51
ayoungamakarov, tried.  failed18:52
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stevemar_amakarov: same argument18:52
ayoungand, we still have the tokenizeation problem18:52
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ayoungKeystone not only needs to store, it would need to modify18:52
amakarovayoung, what kan be done if we negotiate Horizon team to make a convenient tool to edit them :)18:52
ayoungso...lets change what we can control:  what goes in the token18:52
stevemar_ayoung: so i think it's worth asking, how much of a hole are we going to dig ourselves into?18:52
david8huayoung, Operator still need a way to modify and validate policy even with the dynamic policy route.18:52
ayoungstevemar_, none18:52
stevemar_if we assume admin roles and admin projects are always there18:52
ayoungwe are already in the hole18:52
ayoungwere just fuinally deciding to make iourselves dcomfortable18:53
stevemar_i guess if they don't want this, they just don't set the config option?18:53
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ayoungconfig option is off by defualt, too18:53
ayoungto avoid breaking people18:53
stevemar_bknudson: dolphm mordred thoughts?18:53
ayoung we'll activate it in devstack18:53
stevemar_err morgan: not mordred18:53
amakarovstevemar_, the bottom of a bowl usually contains the sweetest pieces!18:53
bknudsonput more info in the commit message so it can be documented properly18:53
jamielennoxso my problem is that if you know enough to set the config option, then you presumably know enough to not spray admin around18:53
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bknudsonand as I mentioned before there are service users that need admin18:54
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samueldmqI have thought about a tool to support customizing policies + something to validate the policy changes, something like: my admin does this and that, and then the tool would run against a live cloud and test it18:54
samueldmqgyee: cc ^18:54
bknudsonand they're scoped to service not admin18:54
samueldmqgyee: I think I have told you about that idea18:54
jamielennoxbknudson: service users need admin because of bad policies in other services18:54
edmondswif you trust someone to assign roles, you should trust them to assign roles... someone can setup a role specifically for the purpose of being able to assign roles, if they want to really lock that down18:54
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edmondsw(and should)18:54
gyeesmueldmq, tool or API?18:54
ayoungso service users indicate we probalby needto make it a list and not a single project18:54
ayoungI'm working on updating the patch for that18:55
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jamielennoxi know it doesn't exist, but i'd love to see a list of places where services treat "admin" as not scoped to the project in the token - cause they're just bugs18:55
lhchengamakarov: I think Timur(tsufiev) have started looking at the policy editor in horizon, but holding that off for now.18:55
amakarovsamueldmq, I have Horizon guys who wolunteered to code the editor if we provide the data format18:55
ayoungedmondsw, admin role is just different from other roles18:55
edmondswayoung, in which sense do you mean?18:55
ayoungedmondsw, it is hard coded everywhere, and with no scope check18:55
david8huLet's get x509 going for service users, so we don't need to worry about it no more ;)18:56
edmondswyeah... it's a mess we need to fix18:56
ayoungthis is just acceptance of the state of things18:56
ayoungdavid8hu, orthogonal18:56
edmondswI should be able to say joe is an admin on project A, bob is an admin on project B, etc.18:56
ayoungdavid8hu, don't confuse authentication with authorization18:56
ayoungedmondsw, we'll call it soemthig other than admin18:56
ayoungcall it manager18:56
edmondswand I'm an admin on project C, which is a parent to both of those, so I'm effectively an admin on A and B as well18:56
edmondswmake it heirarchical18:56
ayoungedmondsw, nothing checks "admin on project"18:56
edmondswIT SHOULD, though18:57
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edmondswwe need to fix that18:57
ayoungedmondsw, things check "on proejct" or "admin"18:57
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ayoungedmondsw, forget should...18:57
edmondswthat's the problem18:57
ayoungso much of this should have been done diffeerntly18:57
ayoungwe are in a world of legacy18:57
edmondswso we punt?18:57
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samueldmqgyee: well, some CLI that uses the oepnstack APIs to validate what users can do what18:57
ayoungon admin, sure...but18:57
amakarovedmondsw, I think "admin" term should dissolve when we enable better role assignment management18:57
david8huayoung, let's help move it out of legacy18:57
ayounghere is the best part:18:57
ayoungit lets us focus on splitting policuy into two parts18:58
ayounglet the proejct keep what they have: effectivly checking the scope of hte porject18:58
ayoungmatch the tokn e18:58
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ayoungwe can then do dynamic policy in middleware18:58
gyeeso we have a distinction betwee project admin and admin project admin?18:58
stevemar_ayoung: i think you've got something here18:58
stevemar_it just needs to be baked a bit longer, add some docs and such like bknudson asked18:58
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ayoungsee, checking to see what the scope of the resource \requires a database lookup for most things18:58
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ayoungwe don;t want that in dyanmic poluicy18:59
bknudsonit can't break anything if it's optional18:59
ayoungchanging it breaks things18:59
ayoung we only want to do the role check18:59
stevemar_bknudson: yep18:59
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stevemar_alright, lets' not creep onto infra time18:59
ayoungso...this lets us plan on doing that in the future18:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 13 18:59:35 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-10-13-18.00.html18:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-10-13-18.00.txt18:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-10-13-18.00.log.html18:59
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stevemar_move to -keystone18:59
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jeblairmove from -infra18:59
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fungiinfra team: assemble!infra team: assemble!19:00
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AJaegeryes, fungi19:00
fungidouble-paste, paste twice!19:00
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nibalizero/ (sorta)19:00
funginibalizer: me too!19:00
anteayanibalizer: are you conferencing?19:00
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 13 19:01:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:01
fungi#topic Announcements: Stackforge namespace retirement19:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements: Stackforge namespace retirement (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
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fungi#info Stackforge namespace retirement maintenance will commence this Saturday, October 17, at 18:00 UTC19:01
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Stackforge_Namespace_Retirement19:01
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fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
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fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-10-06-19.01.html19:01
fungijeblair send followup reminder to lagging stackforge projects about namespace retirement19:02
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fungii believe i saw that happen?19:02
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fungifungi start maintenance plan etherpad for stackforge retirement19:02
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fungii didn't do that, but will get going on it today now that i've been sufficiently shamed19:02
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jeblair(looks like a few changes have happened to the wiki since i sent the email)19:03
anteayayes, yay19:03
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anteayalooks like 619:03
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jeblairstill get to retire 7219:04
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fungi#topic Specs approval: StoryBoard Worklists and Boards (SotK)19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: StoryBoard Worklists and Boards (SotK) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
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fungilooks like we have no council votes on the spec19:04
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/20298919:04
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jeblairfungi: i think it just got a new PS to fix a merge conflict19:05
fungiseems it got updated, yep19:05
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fungii'll approve it now since i said i'd approve it after thursday, but i may be the only council vote on it19:05
SotKthanks :)19:05
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fungiunless anyone else wants to scramble and vote in the next few seconds19:06
anteayait is after thursday, so you are holding true to what you said19:06
fungi#info approved "StoryBoard Worklists and Boards" spec19:06
ZaraI scrambled, just because.19:07
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fungi#topic Summit planning19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit planning (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-mitaka-summit-planning19:07
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fungithe topic list is much more plentiful than last week19:08
fungii'll need to present thingee with our choices in the next few days19:08
anteayawhy does thingee have a role here?19:08
* anteaya is clearly missing part of our workflow19:09
fungibecause he's doing the coordination this time19:09
fungifor the conference19:09
anteayaah wonderful19:09
anteayaoh my19:09
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* anteaya notes to buy thingee a drink19:09
fungiwell, for the design summit19:09
fungisince ttx is travelling19:09
jeblairnicely done, ttx :)19:09
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anteayaha ha ha19:09
zaroanteaya: will update the Gerrit development/upgrade to drop the 'upgrade' portion because it's no longer blocking.19:10
fungiso anyway, what's the best way to get some consensus on 2-4 workroom topics and 3 fishbowl topics? we can leave the sprint topics to an unconference style like we've done in the past since that's worked well19:10
anteayazaro: sure, and is it in the right place19:10
clarkbfungi: we could vote in the etherpad or setup a condorcet poll or just do it in this meeting19:10
anteayazaro: I thought last week you moved it (or said you were going to move it) to workroom from fishbowl19:10
fungishould we add a "would attend" line to each topic and get people to vote by putting their nicks on those?19:10
clarkbfungi: that sounds reasonable to me19:11
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fungii can tally up the nicks, sort them and see if there's any tweaks/overlap before narrowing for the final selection19:11
zaroanteaya: i thought it was in work room last week but now it apparently is in fishbowl. it should be in workroom19:12
zaroi didn't move it19:12
fungicody-somerville: your humanoid man emoji seems to be drowning19:12
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anteayazaro: can you switch it back to workroom?19:12
anteayazaro: I agree that is the best place19:12
fungier, waving humanoid emoji19:12
cody-somervillefungi: frequently feels that way. :)19:12
fungigot it19:12
zaroanteaya: done19:12
clarkbfungi: do proposers need an explicit would attend?19:12
anteayazaro: thank you19:13
anteayaclarkb: I am putting my name down for my sessions19:13
fungiclarkb: can't hurt? ;)19:13
anteayacross me out if I shouldn't be doing that19:13
Zarait looks like the fishbowl ttx proposed is very similar in theme to my storyboard workroom; might be worth combining them?19:13
jeblairi mean, i would attend all of them, so i guess i'm interpreting this slightly differently :)19:13
fungiproposers aren't necessary leading or possibly even advocating for their proposal after all19:13
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anteayafungi: can you put how many fishbowl and how many workroom we have on the etherpad?19:14
Zara(mine's listed as 'task tracker status' but I know more about the storyboard side of things, haha)19:14
fungianteaya: it's at the top19:14
anteayaah thanks, so it is19:15
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fungianteaya: it's 2-4 workrooms depending on if we decide to combine any slots there for a double-length session19:15
fungiin case my comment on that line is unclear19:15
anteayaI am clear19:15
jeblairwho is the person in green i'm arguing with on the containers/baremetal thing?19:15
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clarkbjeblair: me19:16
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clarkbjeblair: I don't recall the v3 spec saying "reimplement drivers for virsh/docker/containers/"19:16
clarkbbut maybe I am mistaken19:16
clarkb(reimplement because nova does those things already)19:16
yolandajeblair, yes, i also didn't understand in that way19:16
anteayawe have 4 proposals for workrooms, can we just accept all 4?19:16
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anteayafungi: can i make that motion?19:17
clarkbI guess I read that as mediate via ironic/openstack19:17
fungianteaya: we can unless there's so little interest for one that we want to give another more time19:17
anteayafungi: I move we accept all four workroom proposals19:17
clarkbjeblair: rather than write our own pxe implementation19:17
anteayaah fair enough19:17
yolandaif the intention of zuul v3 is to construct nodepool in that way that is quite flexible and we can extend, i think our concerns are covered19:17
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anteayamordred: oh, making my motion void19:18
jeblairclarkb: goodness no.  it has a thing about supporting static inventory.19:18
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anteayamordred: ttx has that proposed in fishbowl19:18
clarkbjeblair: right but thats very different htan what yolanda is proposing19:18
clarkbjeblair: yolanda is proposing drivers/plugins do talk to virsh/pxe/docker/etc19:18
anteayamordred: Title: Launchpad / Maniphest / StoryBoard: the Mitaka edition currently line 8019:18
anteayaor was as of me typing so19:19
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clarkbanyways we can have a session to hash it out :)19:19
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jeblairyolanda, clarkb: i think that makes sense, but i think it should be done as part of zuulv3.19:19
jeblairi do not think we should do that with the current nodepool19:19
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yolandajeblair i see that as a good addition yes19:20
clarkbsure, personally I would say nodepool talks to openstack19:20
jeblairwe need to land the 2 big things that are outstanding on nodepool and zuul, and then get started on v3.19:20
clarkbwhich means make shade talk ironic/nova/magnum19:20
clarkband don't reinvent those wheels because they exist already19:20
jeblairclarkb: yeah, that makes sense.19:20
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yolandajeblair, clarkb, but then it limits you to the providers supporting that19:20
jeblairclarkb, yolanda: i agree that we could have a session to hash out details, as long as we're on the same page about building on zuulv3.19:20
yolandaand this is not a reality right now19:20
clarkbjeblair: yup zuulv319:21
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anteayafungi: see any patterns yet?19:22
SpamapSI just wanted to point out that I don't believe we need any summit time to discuss infra-cloud.19:22
anteayafungi: or do you need more input?19:22
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SpamapSWe're low on resources, but not on planning. We know what to do.. just aren't spending much time on it.19:22
fungiSpamapS: awesome19:22
fungiSpamapS: instead we can start every session with a public service announcement: "infra cloud needs you!"19:22
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fungi(to get some work done)19:23
crinkleI am spending time on it...19:23
SpamapSI would like to sit with greghaynes and crinkle and see if we can get a little high bandwidth progress made, but that's like, a 2 hour back-of-the-room thing during a work session.19:23
anteayacrinkle: yay you19:23
* mordred hands crinkle a cookie19:23
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SpamapScrinkle: you can make us a cloud, and then we will bake you a cake.19:23
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Clinti think i've seen that movie19:24
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fungii'll tally up the nicks tomorrow and do a follow-up thread on the infra ml with the probable lineup, to give people some time to finish hashing out their debates on some of the proposed topics19:24
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clarkbyolanda: I think it would be possible for you to deploy a magnum/ironic/nova if you have those types of resources available to you then point nodepool to it19:24
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clarkbyolanda: anyways don't need to derail meeting anymore can chat after if you like19:24
yolandaclarkb, sure, not the time for that now19:25
fungithough we can continue to use some dedicated time in this meeting for discussion of summit session proposals as well19:25
pabelangerSpamapS: add me to the list of helpers. Just point me in the direction19:25
yolandai can also write some lines on an etherpad19:25
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SpamapSpabelanger: at the bottom of the etherpad, there's a sprint session proposed with me, greghaynes, and crinkle19:25
SpamapSpabelanger: join us! :)19:25
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anteayahe won't be at the summit19:26
fungii am also heartened that almost nobody feels the need to discuss infra council progress and pain points. means we're liking it well enough we don't need to waste summit time refining19:26
pabelangerya, only remote this time19:26
anteayaneigher will ianw19:26
clarkbfungi: well actually19:26
anteayafungi: yes, well actually I'm not sure what the solution is19:26
clarkbfungi: I do have to say for myself having dropped off the face of the earth right around when all that happened I hav eno idea what is actually expected of me in relation to that19:26
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clarkbfungi: but I don't think that needs a session, I just need to sit with people and figure it out19:27
jeblairclarkb: conveniently documented here: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/project.html#teams19:27
anteayaI think folks are picking things that have a possible fun outcome and are not interested in the hard bits19:27
anteayafunny that19:27
fungiclarkb: gets easier to grok after a few beers19:27
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fungiZara: i do tend to agree that your workroom session and ttx's fishbowl session might be good to combine19:28
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anteayafungi: I actually think mordred's workroom and ttx's fishbowl is a clearer combination19:28
clarkbjeblair: fungi I think the specific thing that breaks in my head is the state before council vote and whether or not we should ACK/NACK on details or whether or not the idea itself is good19:28
fungii'll consider votes for either of them together and possibly just roll them into one fishbowl if they seem sufficiently popular (unless you object)19:28
clarkbI haven't been able to pick up on the social cues there I think19:28
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clarkbbut again thats not really needing a session I don't think19:29
anteayaclarkb: I don't think we have social cues19:29
jeblairclarkb: sounds like it'd make a good one, actually :)19:29
Zarafungi: I thought mine was better suited to a fishbowl in the first place, just picked a workroom becuase there were lots free and no fishbowls at the time:)19:29
anteayaclarkb: as more than 70 people in a new group is hard to create those19:29
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fungianteaya: oh, perhaps Zara's and mordred's workroom sessions present two sides to ttx's fishbowl debate19:30
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anteayafungi: that is a perspective that has a argument19:30
jeblairclarkb: do you still want your multinode session?  it's in cross-project19:30
anteayaI can stand behind that perhaps19:30
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anteayajeblair: it is for sure?19:30
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clarkbjeblair: nope it can be cross project19:30
anteayacross project is better I think19:30
anteayaclarkb: do you want to remove it?19:31
clarkbanteaya: I struck it out19:31
jeblairanteaya: as sure as is currently possibl; if it isn't after this TC meeting, i'll be sure to let you and clarkb know.19:31
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anteayajeblair: ah thank you19:31
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ZaraI'm happy to roll the three sessions into one if that suits other people. As long as I know what's going on with the migration, I'm happy. :)19:32
fungithe proposal from fbo and tristanC might work well as a broader discussion including planning for puppet-openstackci and the downstream-puppet effort19:33
jeblairpleia2: it looks like the zanata session is in i18n track, yeah?19:33
clarkbhrm should I strike out ya that19:33
clarkbjeblair: ^19:33
jeblairclarkb: ++19:33
anteayafungi: I agree with that assesment19:33
jeblairfungi: may want to consider19:33
jeblairTuesday, October 27 • 4:40pm - 5:20pm19:33
jeblairfungi: that for conflicts ^  (i18n tooling session)19:34
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fungijeblair: thanks for the heads up. i'll try to gravitate topics away from likely overlap with other teams' conflicts19:34
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anteayafungi: if we can get maniphest as a workroom that should give us containers, repo creation and infra council as fishbowls19:35
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jeblairthat sounds sane.  if the result of the maniphest workroom is "give up", we can regroup during the sprint time.  (hopefully it will, instead, be a list of items with people assigned to them)19:39
* anteaya also hopes for a list of items with assignees19:39
fungii think i like containers if it's containers in a zuul v3 world19:39
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fungistill not convinced the infra council session is critical, but it might make a good lure for people from other teams to see what we're doing governance-wise19:40
fungiwhich was the main reason i proposed it19:40
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anteayaI think we should have the space19:40
anteayawe do need to at least discuss the process19:41
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anteayaanyway I am interested in the other items on the agenda19:42
fungiokay, if there's no other burning session discussion, i'd like to give some time to a few gerrit-related topics19:42
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zaroahh thought we might run out of time.19:43
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mordredanybody know if rugair is coming ot the summit?19:43
fungi#topic Upstream Gerrit Issue Fixed (zaro and anteaya)19:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Upstream Gerrit Issue Fixed (zaro and anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:43
jeblairruagair: ^?19:43
lifelessmordred: I believe he is19:43
mordredlifeless: awesome19:43
fungi#link https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/#/c/71380/219:43
zaro#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/I0eV4IgkZS19:43
zaroit's fixed!19:43
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fungiit sounds like we're clear to move forward preparing to upgrade soon post-summit19:44
zaroso now i think we can decide on next gerrit version19:44
mordredzaro: what choices do we have?19:44
zaroi have 2.11 on review-dev.o.o19:44
fungizaro: you were going to upgrade review-dev to latest release, yeag? looks like that's done19:44
tchaypoRuagair is definitely coming19:44
anteayac'mon close connection19:44
fungi#link https://review-dev.openstack.org/19:44
zaromy vote is to move to 2.1119:44
clarkbso we should solicit feedback from our users on the new change screen?19:45
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fungiso we mostly just need to figure out if we (as a community) can stomach 2.11 or need to stick with an already obsoleted 2.10 because of the old change screen going away19:45
anteayaah 2.11 has new screen only?19:45
clarkbanteaya: yes19:45
zarobecause i don't want to see bugs for old change screen and new change screen19:45
anteayaold view has disappeared19:45
* anteaya pauses19:45
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zaroand upstream's not gonna fix any old CS bugs anyways19:45
anteayajeblair: how is gertty adoption?19:46
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fungizaro: do you want to draft an e-mail to the -dev ml about this and see what sort of reception we get?19:46
jeblairanteaya: i can check review.o.o logs19:46
zarofungi: sure, i can.19:46
jeblair(it has a user-agent)19:46
anteayajeblair: awesome, thanks19:46
anteayajeblair: cool19:46
anteayayeah, I think we need input from devs19:47
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anteayaat the very least so that losing old screen isnt' a surprise19:47
fungi#action zaro send a discussion starter to the openstacl-dev mailing list for feedback on Gerrit 2.1119:47
zaro#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/test-gerrit-2.1119:47
mordredwe should also make sure that people konw that at _Some_ point the new screen seems inevitable19:47
fungi#action zaro send a discussion starter to the openstack-dev mailing list for feedback on Gerrit 2.1119:47
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mordredso rather than "do you like it" perhaps feedback on blocker issues19:48
fungi#action zaro send a discussion starter to the openstack-dev mailing list for feedback on Gerrit 2.1119:48
zaroso far 2.11 looks pretty good with overall systems from review-dev.o.o prespective19:48
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/test-gerrit-2.1119:48
clarkbzaro: https://review-dev.openstack.org/#/c/5331/2/driver.py,unified fails fwiw19:48
anteayazaro: nice checklist19:48
fungi(sorry about the noise for a typo)19:48
anteayafungi: np19:48
anteayamordred: good point19:48
jeblairmordred: yeah, honestly, i think when we decided to track upstream, we decided to go with what they give us19:48
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mordredjeblair: yup19:48
jeblairmordred, zaro: so i think we should be looking for serious blocker issues, not 'nice to have' things.19:49
mordredmain feedback I'd be interested in is "zomg I cannot do X can we fix that"19:49
clarkbjeblair: right like unified diffs not working19:49
jeblair(if you want something that's nice to have, send a patch to upstream gerrit)19:49
clarkbsee link about for example :)19:49
fungiagreed. it seems like we're not going to convince them to build an old change screen equivalent, so barring people suddenly getting really excited about doing something like that with vinz we're back to forking or taking what's there and improving where possible19:49
zaroyeah, /me is looking.19:49
mordredclarkb: define fail? that link works for me19:49
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Clinti get internal server error19:50
clarkbmordred: I get internal server error19:50
asselin__doesn't work for me either19:50
mordredI get a unified diff19:50
jeblairjava.lang.ClassCastException: com.google.gerrit.server.AnonymousUser cannot be cast to com.google.gerrit.server.IdentifiedUser19:50
clarkbmordred: huh are you using firefox or other?19:50
mordredI'm logged in19:50
zarocontributions to that Gerrit 2.11 etherpad would be helpful.  if you've got areas you think you might like to verify put them on there and i'll take a look.19:50
jeblairprobably only happens to anonymous19:50
jeblairzaro: ^19:50
clarkboh super weird19:50
mordredzaro: ya. that's probably a bug :)19:50
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Clintyup, works when logged in19:51
jeblairnoted in ep.19:51
zaroi think known issue there it's got something to do with not having an email address or having same emails assigned to multiple accounts.19:52
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anteayazaro: thank you19:52
anteayazaro: wonderful19:52
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fungijhenner: ruagair: i'm going to skip your gerrit load troubleshooting topic. i think we may want to limp it along, upgrade as soon as possible, and see if it's fixed before we spend too much time digging deeper19:52
fungisorry jhenner! jhesketh ^19:53
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zaroI think we are in agreement to target Gerrit 2.11, correct?19:53
fungiif we're set for next steps with the upgrade, then i'd like to take a couple minutes to check for concerns in preparation for saturday's maintenance19:53
jhennerfungi: np19:54
fungizaro: sounds like it19:54
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anteayafungi: I would like project config frozen at 13:00 utc friday19:54
fungi#agreed Infra is planning to upgrade to Gerrit 2.11 soon after the Mitaka summit, barring serious blocker bugs19:54
anteayaunless there are objections, in which case could you offer a better time?19:54
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fungi#topic Stackforge namespace retirement maintenance planning19:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Stackforge namespace retirement maintenance planning (Meeting topic: infra)"19:55
Clintwhen is the move/retire list frozen?19:55
anteayaClint: last monday19:55
jeblairanteaya: (313 unique ip addresses used gertty to access review.o.o since sept 20.  that's almost certainly well more than the number of users, especially if mordred used it)19:55
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fungianteaya: 13:00 utc friday sounds fine to me. i can lock that wiki article19:55
anteayajeblair: ha ha ha19:55
mordredjeblair: :)19:55
anteayafungi: thank you19:55
clarkbya 1300 lockdown wfm19:55
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anteayajeblair: it will be interesting to track that number after the new view is in place19:56
jeblairanteaya: i don't think it's frozen yet?19:56
anteayajeblair: the deadline has past19:56
anteayabut yes wikipage not frozen yet19:56
jeblairanteaya: it's a wiki page, and i don't think we set a deadline after which people could not edit it.19:56
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jeblairi think it makes sense to just consider 1300 utc the deadline19:57
fungiwhen do we anticipate running the script to generate our changes?19:57
jeblairfreeze wiki, freeze project-config, run script to generate change19:57
anteayaI was hoping to clear the list prior19:57
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fungiif it's 13:00 utc, then i can lock the page at that time19:57
jeblairclear the list?19:57
anteayawell I would like to practice with the list starting tomorrow19:57
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anteayaclear the list, practice, get used to the expected list without new changes19:58
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jeblairthat's fine, but considering this is automated, why not run it with updated inputs?19:58
anteayaon practice patchsets19:58
anteayathat is fine19:58
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anteayaif we are agreed on friday 1300 for freeze19:58
fungiyeah, it seems unnecessary to lock the page down to perform test runs (or to wait for teh page to be locked to do those test runs)19:58
jeblairin practice, i doubt there will be very many changes19:58
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anteayafungi: okay19:58
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anteayajeblair: well that is true, there were 6 since your last email19:59
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anteayadoubt we will have more than 2 late additions at this point19:59
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anteayaokey dokey19:59
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fungi#info the Stackforge_Namespace_Retirement wiki article will be locked and non-maintenance-related project-config changes frozen at 13:00 UTC this Friday, October 1620:00
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fungipabelanger: timrc: i'll talk to you in a bit about the grafyaml thing20:00
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fungineed to hand the channel over to the tc20:00
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fungithanks all!20:00
anteayathank you20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 13 20:01:00 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-10-13-19.01.html20:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-10-13-19.01.txt20:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-10-13-19.01.log.html20:01
ttxAnyone here for the TC meeting ?20:01
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russellbmestery: welcome!20:01
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mesterythanks russellb :)20:01
* edleafe continues to lurk20:01
* shamail lurking too20:01
* jeblair thinks we could make a neat design if we lined up before the meeting start20:01
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ttxlifeless, flaper87, markmcclain, jaypipes: around ?20:02
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lifelessttx: very20:02
markmcclainttx: still here :)20:02
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lifelessttx: diet has been bad20:02
anteayajeblair: ha ha ha20:02
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ttx#startmeeting tc20:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 13 20:02:26 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:02
ttxOur agenda for today:20:02
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:02
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ttx#topic Welcome Mitaka membership20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Welcome Mitaka membership (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttxCongrats to mestery on his election and the others on their reelection20:02
ttxSo we have a number of things to cover for the first meeting of a new membership20:02
mesterythanks :)20:02
flaper87w0000h00000! Welcome everyone20:02
annegentlewelcome mestery!20:03
ttxFirst is to approve the the new membership20:03
* mestery ^5s flaper87 20:03
* mordred hands mestery a somewhat uneaten jar of pickles20:03
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annegentlethanks flaper87!20:03
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/233543/20:03
* mestery weeps20:03
ttxwas +1ed by election officials, so will approve now unless there is an objection20:03
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* sdague thinks there must be better snacks in this place20:03
sdaguettx: do it20:03
annegentlethank you jgriffith!20:03
lifelessvelkomm velkomm20:03
jgriffithannegentle: It was na honor20:04
jgriffithan even20:04
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mordredthanks jgriffith !20:04
ttxalright approved20:04
ttxThen we have to pick the committee chair20:04
jeblairjgriffith: thank you!20:04
ttxI'll be happy to serve again, I actually dropped the release management PTL seat to be able to spend even more time on the TC side20:04
sdagueyeh, thanks for all the fish jgriffith20:04
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ttxAnyone else interested ?20:04
* sdague not it20:04
jgriffithha... I love that I get that reference :)20:04
* dhellmann touches his nose20:04
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* mestery also not it20:04
ttxIf you'll have me, please approve https://review.openstack.org/#/c/234409/20:05
* lifeless touches dhellmann's nose20:05
* mordred is only aware of one crazy frenchman in the room, and is pretty sure that's a pre-req20:05
markmcclainttx: go for it20:05
annegentlettx: thank you thank you20:05
* dhellmann smacks lifeless' hand20:05
ttxI'll need 7 votes on that one for formal vote20:05
lifelessdhellmann: thats not how it works?20:05
* flaper87 interested in voting for ttx to be chair20:05
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ttxok, other administrativia20:06
ttxRemember we are all invited to a joint BoD/TC meeting on Monday Oct 26, 2:30pm. I sent an email with details to the list20:06
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* flaper87 will be there20:06
annegentlettx: on it20:06
* mestery marks his calendar20:06
sdaguettx: and you are sure you aren't off by 30 minutes like last time :)20:06
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ttxthanks everyone for still wanting me for another round. Although I wonder if that's not an elaborate trick20:06
ttxI'd like to spend a few minutes collecting topics that you want to discuss at that joint meeting20:07
ttxAlanClark told me he has DCO and diversity work group update on the agenda already20:07
ttxAnything else you'd like to cover there?20:07
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lifelessit might be nice to ask the board if they have anything they want from us20:07
mesterylifeless: +120:07
russellbi asked for DCO to be discussed earlier (as well)20:07
ttxsdague: it was an optimization based on past data!20:07
russellbso that we can actually vote on it20:07
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russellbi posted to the foundation list about that, but no response on it ...20:08
sdaguerussellb: thanks for posting that20:08
dhellmannrussellb: so no response at all?20:08
jeblairrussellb: yeah, we were expecting a vote in july, so we're _really_ expecting a vote in october.20:08
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russellbdhellmann: none20:08
ttxrussellb: Alan told me he has the DCO on the list of topics requested by the board20:08
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ttxmaybe that's a yes ?20:08
* flaper87 shrugs20:08
dhellmannttx: but if that's for the joint session, they won't be voting20:08
russellbttx: if it's in the joint meeting, the board can't vote on it20:08
ttxoh, good point20:09
russellbsince that's after the official close of board meeting20:09
jeblairand last i checked, it was not explicitly listed on the board agenda20:09
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ttxhmm, maybe it's just to tell us that the board adopted it in the morning ? /me is an optimistic person20:09
russellbhope so20:09
fungisort of wondering if the legal affairs ctte call tomorrow is going to cover dco. might make sense for some of you to lurk?20:09
flaper87I'd really like to see the DCO thing resolved this time\20:09
flaper87ttx: yeah20:09
jeblair (10:40) Legal: ICLA/DCO - Eileen, Mark, Nissa20:09
russellbfungi: yes, the timing was interesting, usually that's not public20:09
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jeblairthat has appeared now20:10
shamailI heard DCO is on the list too (board, not joint session)20:10
russellbjeblair: oh great!20:10
sdaguejeblair: cool20:10
ttxjeblair: the "Legal" part doesn't seem to point to a vote but yet another exposé20:10
russellbso then i think it's fair to expect a vote based on what i know20:10
ttxbut we can hope20:10
* devananda sneaks in late, lurks in the back20:10
mordredI agree with russellb20:10
mordredI believe the intent is for a vote to happen20:10
jeblairmaybe it's "legal committee has come back with this thing to vote on"20:10
ttxjeblair: maybe.20:11
* jeblair speculated20:11
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ttxok anyway, what else would you like to cover ?20:11
* jeblair is also optimistic20:11
sdagueso with a vote, will us outsiders get to know who voted for what (roll call vote), or just outcome?20:11
* Rockyg hand devananda a maitai20:11
russellbsdague: you'll get to know, it's in the minutes20:11
sdaguerussellb: cool20:11
russellbthough the minutes are usually approved in the *next* board meeting20:11
flaper87I like lifeless' topic proposal20:11
fungisdague: also if you're around, totally show up and join the peanut gallery. i will20:11
ttxmordred: if you want us to work on redefining / precising the openstack mission, it's likely to be something the board wants to know about20:11
russellbfungi: indeed20:12
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mordredttx: that's an excellent point20:12
clarkbfungi: will there be room?20:12
sdaguettx: yeh, good point20:12
* mestery likes peanuts and will be there20:12
mordredttx: that would be a great topic to add to the joint meeting20:12
fungiclarkb: i intend to make room, tokyo or no20:12
ttxwhat is lifeless topic proposal ?20:12
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clarkbfungi: :) sounds like a plan20:12
ttx#info proposed topic: expanding the openstack mission20:12
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jeblairmordred: have background on that?20:13
ttxjeblair: mordred wants it to mention users20:13
mordredjeblair: the tl;dr is that our mission currently says nothing about users or making clouds that work similarly20:13
* jeblair assumes he missed a -dev email20:13
ttxjeblair: not really20:13
flaper87jeblair: the candidacy :D20:13
sdaguethere was a bit of it in his TC candidacy20:13
mordredit very much reads as a mission to make a toolkit that cloud providers can use to make clouds20:13
lifelessttx: 09:07 < lifeless> it might be nice to ask the board if they have anything they want from us20:13
lifeless09:07 < mestery> lifeless: +120:13
jaypipessorry, I'm here...20:13
jeblairah, i recall that now.20:14
ttx#info topic proposal: ask the board if they have anything they want from us20:14
sdagueso I think we should action mordred to have some writing words before the meeting20:14
russellbsdague: +120:14
mordredI will make some writing words20:14
ttxaction mordred20:14
annegentlemordred: yeah I was thinking how aged that seems now 5 years later20:14
anteayamordred is just an action20:14
sdaguein the past the "ask the board what they want from us" didn't turn into much20:14
* mordred is an action20:14
ttxOK. Well if you have other ideas you can push them to the -tc list today. i'll send that to Alan tomorrow20:14
flaper87sdague: oh, good to know20:15
sdagueI would actually think a bit of that should be the board putting things on the joint agenda20:15
jeblairit was last time, iirc20:15
ttxLast item on this topic is the TC dinner, or absence thereof20:15
flaper87jeblair: we added a couple too20:15
jeblairmaybe they don't have much to talk about either :)20:15
ttxmordred said (rightly so) that the TC hasn't changed much and we know each other already, so there isn't so much need for a formal dinner as there was before20:15
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ttxI'm fine with getting an evening back for more informal arrangements, but I'm fine with a TC dinner too.20:15
annegentlettx: mordred good point20:15
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* russellb fine either way on dinner ...20:15
ttxso maybe something less formal ?20:16
mordredyah - and I feel like I don't actually do anything with the regular folks because I'm booked so solid all the time20:16
annegentleless formal20:16
jeblairoh, i din't think the point was to be introduced to people :)20:16
ttxI'll definitely have dinner after the WoW event20:16
mordredwhich I imagine is the same for many of you20:16
ttxWoO I mean20:16
lifelessmordred: I thought you were organising w/HP one ?20:16
annegentleWOO :)20:16
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mordredyeah - dinner after WoW sounds like fun20:16
lifelessanyhow, I'm fine any which way20:16
flaper87jeblair: lol20:16
annegentlelifeless: well there's also that mordred doesn't work at HP any more20:16
mordredlifeless: I was, but then we were waiting on the election, and then got to talking, etc etc20:16
sdagueyeh, post woo dinner sounds reasonable20:16
annegentleWe could play WoW, whatevs :20:17
markmcclainthe dinner is one of the few times all 13 of us are in one place that isn't a formal meeting20:17
ttxok, let's skip the formal dinner, and have a post-woo thing for whoever wants20:17
markmcclainI still an informal event would be a good idea20:17
mesteryttx: ++20:17
jeblairfor the record, i would love a formal dinner, but i'm happy to have an informal one.20:17
ttxmarkmcclain: we'll be at the woo event. We'll likely be at the core reviewer party event too20:17
annegentleI think so too markmcclain -- setting aside the time, mainly20:17
anteayawoo posts?20:17
jeblairi think us gathering together is a really thing.20:17
Rockygwoo is supposed to have enough food that it's likely post drinks rather than dinner20:18
jeblaira really good thing.20:18
flaper87jeblair: ++ too20:18
markmcclainjeblair: ++20:18
ttxRockyg: good to know.20:18
dhellmannjeblair, markmcclain : ++20:18
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ttxOK, so I'm not sure we came to a conclusion here20:19
lifelessfwiw I've very much enjoyed, and thought we got lots of important discussions done ina  low-stress environment, the formal dinners20:19
lifelessbut I'm equally happy with adhocing20:19
ttxI'm fine either way. But we need an organizer and a sponsor20:19
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sdagueyeh, honestly the vancouver venue was nice20:19
sdaguemore bar like and able to talk with more folks20:19
dhellmannyeah, having a space ready for 13 means more opportunity to talk than we might get ad hoc20:19
ttxand a day20:20
flaper87and move around, etc20:20
sdagueso post woo drinks where we can move around is goodness20:20
annegentlesdague: ++20:20
mordredsdague, ttx: I can work on finding a space20:20
sdagueand invite jgriffith to join, per tradition of emeritus20:20
ttxHow about we do something after the WOO event. Dinner if necessary, drinks most likely20:20
mesteryttx: ++20:20
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mesteryInformal, drinks, movement. What's not to like?20:20
flaper87ttx: sounds good20:20
dhellmannttx: ++20:20
russellbkaraoke bar?20:20
flaper87russellb: WOW!20:21
flaper87love the idea20:21
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ttxflaper87 is already reheasring all week20:21
sdaguenot so good for the talking part20:21
annegentlemestery had it, russellb escalated! :)20:21
mesteryKaroke bar!20:21
* flaper87 starts warming up20:21
lifelessnot for chatting20:21
jeblairsdague: some topics are best sung?20:21
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annegentle"Don't Stop Believing"20:21
ttx#topic Cross-project track at Design Summit20:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project track at Design Summit (Meeting topic: tc)"20:21
ttxsorry to be back on track20:21
ttxThe cross-project workgroup met yesterday to curate the track contents20:21
lifelessttx: one sec20:21
jeblairttx: we all are20:21
lifelessI need to know if this is something we're going to get sponsored20:22
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lifelessor if it will be paid individually20:22
ttxI'm fine with paying my share20:22
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lifelessfine with != plan of record20:22
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russellbnobody has said "i'm paying", so I think that means pay your own.20:23
mordredlifeless: the post-gathering? we have agreements from humans to fund a TC gathering20:23
lifelesssimply because if I"m going to chase down whoever mordred was extracting moo from, to do the same, I need warning :)20:23
mordredlifeless: specifically, HP has indicated that they are happy to continue paying20:23
russellbah, nice.20:23
lifelessmordred: ok, can you loop me in, since I'm going to be the amex-on-the-ground20:23
ttxthanks HP20:23
jeblairmordred: so the proposal is mordred finds a place and lifeless organizes payment?20:23
mordredlifeless: excellent20:23
flaper87thanks HP!20:23
mordredor we might make cody-somerville go over and put a card down, but yeah20:23
lifelessmordred: and I suspect i need to dig up a P card for it20:23
ttxok so20:23
ttxThe result is at the bottom of:20:23
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-cross-project-session-planning20:23
sdaguecross project track20:24
lifelessmordred: drop me a mail @hpe.com ?20:24
ttxI have two suggestions:20:24
ttxIf we swap 3 and 26, mtreinish can attend 26 (and dhellmann can attend both 3 and 11)20:24
sdaguettx: annegentle also spoke up about a conflict20:24
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ttxah I may have missed that20:24
annegentleyah, 2:50 my only talk20:24
sdaguettx: it was on the ML20:24
sdagueso trying to move 10 out of the 2:50 block20:24
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ttxsdague: I was distracted today for some reason20:24
flaper87I'm good with swapping but I think sdague had a conflict with 26 IIRC20:24
annegentleyah my kids started fighting and it was all downhill from there yesterday afternoon :)20:24
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* annegentle is honest20:25
sdagueflaper87: I think the 3 / 26 flip is fine with me20:25
flaper87sdague: cool20:25
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flaper87ttx: I'll swap them unless someone objects20:25
ttxswap 10 and 14 then ? but taht prevents anne from doing design summit 10120:25
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ttxflaper87: wait20:26
sdagueor move 10 to 2pm20:26
sdaguewe have the empty slot20:26
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flaper87ttx: damnit20:26
* flaper87 rollsback20:26
ttxmoving 10 to 2pm works...20:26
sdagueannegentle: that work for you?20:26
ttxkills my second suggestion but meh20:26
annegentlehow big is the place for walking time?20:26
sdaguettx: what was your second suggestion?20:27
ttxsdague: if we should not save one of the NACKs and schedule it on the empty slot at 2pm20:27
lifelesshaving dlm and dynamic reconfig conflict is a poor idea20:27
ttxFor example one from rockyG on logging, combining 13 and 1520:27
sdaguettx: we could put it at 2:5020:27
lifelesssince both are about dynamically handling changing environments20:27
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ttxsdague: yeah20:27
ttxflaper87: ok go20:27
flaper87so, summary:20:27
flaper87swap 3 and 2620:27
flaper87and ?20:27
lifelessisn't 14 and 19 a dhellmann conflict?20:27
ttxnot sure anyone gets *that* movie reference20:27
sdaguelifeless: the constraints on there make it a pretty hard flip around at this point20:27
* flaper87 got lost20:27
annegentle10 to morning?20:28
lifelessmoderating one... oslo ptl hat for other20:28
sdaguelifeless: he's not oslo ptl20:28
lifelessrelease ptl20:28
lifelessmeh :)20:28
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ttxswap 26 /3 move 10 to 2pm20:28
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RockygAnother one that might be more important is Refstack and Tempest ... how to make the testing work...20:28
lifelesssdague: yeah, I get thats a typical scheduling problem20:28
dhellmannlifeless: thanks for pointing that out20:28
ttxand maybe make a single logging session for RockyG at 2:50pm20:28
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jeblair3 26 swap 10 <empty> swap20:29
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flaper87jeblair: that's readable! Executed :D20:29
flaper87ttx: done20:29
jeblair<empty stack>20:29
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flaper87jeblair: <snack>20:29
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ttxRPN I see20:29
* jgriffith would love to attend (delayed response)20:30
* Rockyg empty snack?20:30
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jeblairRockyg: :(20:30
ttxSo what about putting 13+15 in the empty slot at 2:50pm ?20:30
ttxI don't think we need to preserve an empty slot at that hour20:30
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dhellmannttx: could we move 14 there and add 13+15 at 11:15?20:30
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Rockygttx:  if we can get treinish, I'd prefer working out how to go forward with tempest fw for refstack...20:30
sdagueyeh, I was going to just suggest what dhellmann said20:30
ttxdhellmann: that works20:30
dhellmannflaper87: did you get that or should I swap?20:31
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flaper87sounds good to me20:31
flaper87on it20:31
dhellmannflaper87: ty20:31
ttxRockyg: I think it's less of a cross-project thing though20:31
jeblairthere will be a partial conflict with DLMs [lifeless]20:31
sdagueRockyg: so we've got "Supporting DefCore and Interop testing" already at 12:0520:31
Rockygttx  Ah, thanks.  Need to make time with QA session...20:32
ttxif not covered there there are refstack slots and QA slots where that might fit20:32
ttxAlright, looks like we have a winner20:32
ttxWho volunteers to push that one to Cheddar ? I can add them as admin for the track20:32
* dhellmann touches flaper87's nose20:32
RockygNot covered yet and really important - QA and Refstack...20:32
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flaper87I can do it20:33
sdaguettx: I can do it if no other volunteer20:33
lifelessRockyg: sorry, there are no slots from what I can see20:33
* Rockyg sawts at something tickling my nose20:33
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sdagueok, there is another volunteer, so flaper87 wins20:33
ttxflaper87: I'll add you asap20:33
flaper87ttx: thanks20:33
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ttxlike during the next topic20:33
ttx#topic Kick off N naming20:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Kick off N naming (Meeting topic: tc)"20:33
ttxsdague: care to drive this one ?20:33
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sdaguewe're making plans now for things in M, N, and even sometimes O20:34
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sdaguewe should get some names out there instead of people inventing things, which get confusing later20:34
ttxflaper87: you reached Level 4 Warrior class.20:34
* markmcclain thinks there was neutron discussion about completing a feature in X20:34
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sdagueN naming should just go by the current rules, and there is a sub point to change the rules to make O go20:35
* dhellmann thinks x is closer than markmcclain thinks20:35
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* flaper87 is honored and ready for the battle20:35
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sdagueso, who's got the batton to drive the naming?20:35
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markmcclaindhellmann: it was halfway serious... since some deprecation timelines stretch to P20:35
sdaguefor N cycle20:35
russellbsdague does!20:35
lifelesssdague: thank you for volunteering?20:36
flaper87sdague: thanks!20:36
jeblairsdague: thanks!20:36
sdaguerussellb: no, I don't think so. I think after the rules changes last time mordred and jeblair signed up for such things20:36
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sdaguewe can probably find minutes even20:36
mordredI can do it again if people would like20:36
annegentleI think sdague's memory serves him20:36
annegentlewell, even20:36
mordredbut is also happy to share the love if other people want it20:36
ttxmordred: nice try :)20:36
* russellb happy for whoever is up for it to do it20:37
* dhellmann wonders if N will be the "not it" release20:37
ttxN is in Texas, might end up being even more dangerous than the Japanese one20:37
mesterymordred and jeblair do such a nice job, it woudl be shame to not let them do it again :)20:37
sdaguenixon texas is a town20:37
sdaguejust saying20:37
flaper87oh boy20:37
dhellmannsdague: I'll just go on record now as saying that I find that offensive ;-)20:37
sdaguedhellmann: hey, just saying20:38
ttxsdague: alright, do you want to mention the rules change ?20:38
flaper87ok, so, are we doing this?20:38
sdaguesure so mordred has the action to run with N naming asap?20:38
sdaguelets make it a thing20:38
ttxyes, it's action mordred day20:38
ttx#agreed mordred to handle N naming process asap20:38
russellbthanks, mordred !20:38
sdagueok, so sub bullet20:39
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mordredwell, so, actually20:39
mordredI believe me handling it is a patch to that file20:39
jeblairyep, first step is to propose a governance change20:39
sdaguemordred: and collect20:39
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mordredso it's great that we've agreed, but let me make a patch and submit it first20:39
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sdagueok so - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/232489/20:39
sdaguesub bullet20:39
sdaguelets not put an artificle restriction on when we can start naming20:40
sdaguewe have a place for O20:40
sdagueand we're already hit code change discussions for O min libvirt release20:40
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sdagueso I'd like us to name it20:40
ttxso on this one I think we need to know the name of the next two releases at any time20:40
dhellmannIIUC, it was intended to ensure that the folks participating in the release had a chance to name it, so it wasn't about folks leaving but about folks joining, and it wasn't artificial it was intentional20:40
ttx"as soon as we know the location" is a bit open-ended20:40
dhellmannthat said, I agree it's useful to drop it20:40
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ttxI have been scouting locations for 201820:41
sdaguedhellmann: right, I do see that, but I also think we're planning more than one cycle out20:41
ttxI'm fine with "next 2 which means we need to pick O as soon as Liberty is out20:41
anteayattx: you progressive thinker you20:41
ttxas long as we know where the summit is20:41
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sdagueand the shifting term for the N+1 release is confusing to new folks20:41
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dhellmannsdague: yep, I agree, I just wanted the framing to be accurate in the minutes20:41
annegentleyeah and we're heading towards an N release anyway20:41
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flaper87ttx: do you think the locatoins will be announced with so much time in advance?20:42
sdaguebecause we want to land code on O libvirt requirements nowish in official repos, so the distros have a year to get ready for us20:42
annegentleI'd like to propose decoupling from the summit, but will do so in a follow-up. Would that be amenable to our end-goals to have some fun, engage those working on releases?20:42
flaper87we normally know the locations for the next 220:42
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flaper87I'm good with limiting it to just 2 but it may not be necessary20:42
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sdaguehttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/232489 currently has 11 +1s20:42
ttxflaper87: more and more we'll know the locations in advance. We have known about next 3 (Tokyo; Austin; Barcelona) back in YVR20:42
anteayaannegentle: decoupling from summit, meaning not tying names to geography?20:42
annegentledecouple from location entirely even, or choose a location related to a contributor20:42
ttxannegentle: wait until we reach Z maybe20:43
ttxsdague: ok, let me approve20:43
annegentlettx: heh, go through 26 first, sure. that's only 8 years away20:43
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ttxsdague: approved20:43
ttx(I abstained, I hope it still works)20:44
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ttxsdague: anything else on that topic ?20:44
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ttx#topic Workgroup reports and new members20:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Workgroup reports and new members (Meeting topic: tc)"20:45
ttxWe have two established workgroups: comms and next-tags20:45
ttxAnyone interested in joining/leaving those groups ?20:45
ttxAlso I've been toying with the idea of assigning mentor TC members to projects which application has been deferred to mitaka20:45
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ttxThat is Compass, Fuel, kiloeyes, Monasca, Kosmos and Juju charms20:45
ttxWe deferred all of them waiting for more activity or more alignment with the OpenStack way20:45
ttxI think it would help them (and us) if there were some designated person(s) keeping track of their progress20:45
ttxand reporting to the TC when they feel they are ready, for example20:46
flaper87I'd be all for that. I proposed this back when marconi was rejected but those were different times, I guess20:46
annegentlettx: tracking as in going to their meetings? Or some other scope?20:46
ttxrather than us randomly putting it back on the approval slate after a period of time20:46
mestery+1 to that idea on mentoring ttx20:46
ttxannegentle: keeping track of their progress, be a mentor20:46
ttxanswer their questions, reporting to the rest of teh TC about progress20:47
annegentlettx: ok, yeah makes sense, I imagine being available for Qs would be a big helper20:47
jeblairit doesn't sound particularly scalable; and things like the project team guide were meant to help scalability...20:47
ttxI don't expect we'll have a large backlog20:47
ttxor at least, not a growing one20:47
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flaper87I really hope we don't, otherwise we'd be failing to communicate the requirements20:47
ttxwe probably reached a peak, partly due to fine-tuning our expectations20:48
sdaguemaybe, it seems like there are new bits coming to the fold quite often in the project-config repo20:48
angdraugI think part of a mentor's responsibility would be to identify gaps in documentation based on questions they receive20:48
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annegentleangdraug: could be, but it's much more than that20:48
ttxjeblair: also like for other workgroups I'm not opposed if someone outside the TC would take the job20:48
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angdraugjust trying to address the backlog concern20:49
lifelessangdraug: we can do that without a mentor20:49
flaper87ttx: I can work with you on that idea (mentor)20:49
RockygCoaching on outreach to community, or facilitating cross project design meetings...20:49
lifelessthe backlog is really just the period of time that projects will exist for before they are ready to join, as a minimum20:49
lifelesslike - we can't expect that to disappear20:49
ttxwell, it will only work if we have volunteers anyway20:49
annegentleI see it as outreach and facilitation, onboarding20:49
flaper87lets write down some plan and expectations20:50
ttxso no point in saying we'll do it before we have people signed up to actually do it20:50
flaper87then we can ask for volunteers and see how it goes20:50
ttxflaper87: sounds good20:50
lifelessI'd be happy to mentor a project20:50
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markmcclainI can help out with 120:50
ttxflaper87: the base idea being, if we defer a project application, we should assign someone to follow that project20:50
ttxnot just leave them out in the cold20:51
flaper87ttx: yup20:51
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ttxIf we think a project will never make it we should *reject* the application, not defer it20:51
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mesteryttx: Those are sane ideas, I like it.20:52
mesteryflaper87 ttx: I can help out here too if you need more people20:52
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flaper87mestery: awesome, thanks20:52
ttxalright, 8 min left20:52
ttxI had two other things proposed on the agenda20:52
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ttxJavaScript to Common Testing Interface is being actively reviewed, not sure there is a point in discussing it in the remaining time20:53
annegentleI'm happy for the active docs discussion early on20:53
ttxGo comment on https://review.openstack.org/232756 and we'll look into it a future time20:53
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ttx#topic Add team:non-diverse-affiliation tag20:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Add team:non-diverse-affiliation tag (Meeting topic: tc)"20:53
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/21872520:53
jeblairannegentle: among good problems to have: "where to put these docs people really want to write"20:53
ttxthat one is a bit stuck with two parties disagreeing20:54
annegentlejeblair: srsly!20:54
ttxwe could call for a final vote on it20:54
* dhellmann finds both arguments persuasive20:54
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ttxor we can let it mature a bit more and have people change their opinions over sake20:54
ttxI'm for sake at this stage20:54
flaper87I meant to comment on that one on Friday and forgot20:54
ttxbut then I can't oppose a request for final voting20:54
dtroyerAgreed.  with the opportunity for in-person discussion close we should take advantage of that20:55
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sdaguehonestly, I'd say lets do it post summit / sake20:55
sdaguebut we should resolve it after we get back one way or another20:55
ttx(as a reminder, final voting triggers the charter voting rules, meaning the chaneg is accepted if it has more YES than NOes)20:55
dhellmannttx: kanpai!20:55
flaper87there's no rush in doing it now20:55
annegentleI think we'll be getting lots of input at the summit about what's important to people, so deferring makes sense.20:55
ttxNo rush20:55
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ttx#topic Open discussion20:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:56
jeblairthis sounds like a plan.20:56
ttxI won't be around next week -- we can either skip or have someone else chair.20:56
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ttxI don't expect we'll build a backlog by then20:56
annegentleanything pressing? I doubt it20:56
annegentleI think it's ok to skip20:56
jeblairi won't be around either20:56
sdagueI guess one last thing on naming, should now that we can do O naming, should we run it concurrent with N, or post N ?20:56
ttxand it will be too early to reconsider the deferred-to-mitaka projects20:56
dhellmannI don't think I'll be here20:56
sdaguenaming that is20:56
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flaper87I'd appreciate not waking up at 5am next week :)20:56
ttxsdague: I'd say post-N20:56
ttxto reduce confusion20:57
dhellmannyeah, right after20:57
flaper87but I'll happily do it if there's a meeting20:57
markmcclainyeah... serially20:57
sdaguettx: can we do it after polls close, but it's still in trademark search?20:57
edleafe+1 for post-N20:57
angdraugwhat's the current state of the discussion of alternatives to LP? dormant?20:57
sdaguebecause I'd like to not wait too long20:57
annegentleflaper87: where are you, new zealand? Australia? Japan?20:57
flaper87annegentle: Japan20:57
sdaguewe are going to commit things to repos that so Osomething20:57
annegentleflaper87: cool20:57
anteayaangdraug: see the infra meeting log prior to this meeting20:57
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ttxsdague: I guess so. That would still trigger the confusion... like picking the O candidates while we don't know what N will be20:57
annegentleangdraug: ooo I'm going to look also20:58
sdagueyeh, it will require communication20:58
sdaguethat's why running concurrently honestly seemed like maybe a better deal20:58
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ttxsdague: I don't think we need to rush it, but I'm fine with whatever20:58
sdaguemaybe I'll poke mordred and volunteer to help20:59
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ttxso.. skipping next week and see you all at summit ?20:59
sdaguesounds good20:59
flaper87sounds good20:59
ttxthanks everyone!20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 13 20:59:52 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-10-13-20.02.html20:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-10-13-20.02.txt20:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-10-13-20.02.log.html20:59
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EmilienM#startmeeting crossproject21:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 13 21:00:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is EmilienM. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:00
EmilienMcourtesy ping for david-lyle flaper87 dims dtroyer johnthetubaguy rakhmerov21:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
EmilienMcourtesy ping for smelikyan morganfainberg adrian_otto bswartz slagle21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:00
EmilienMcourtesy ping for adrian_otto mestery kiall jeblair thinrichs j^2 stevebaker21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'crossproject'21:00
EmilienMcourtesy ping for mtreinish Daisy Piet notmyname ttx isviridov gordc SlickNik21:00
EmilienMcourtesy ping for cloudnull loquacities thingee hyakuhei redrobot dirk TravT21:00
EmilienMcourtesy ping for vipul annegentle SergeyLukjanov devananda boris-42 nikhil_k and lifeless21:00
EmilienM#link Meeting URL https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting21:00
flaper87o/ (ish)21:00
docaedo(where's my courtesy ping??)21:00
* mestery courtesy pings armax21:00
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* mestery lurks21:00
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* mestery thinks the courtesy ping copy paste needs updating21:01
* edleafe lurks sheepishly21:01
EmilienM#topic Review past action items21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Review past action items (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:01
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EmilienMnotmyname to investigate how proposed service catalog change impacts swift further21:01
armaxmestery: here21:01
jrollmestery: it's a script based on governance repo, I thought that was updated >.>21:01
* jroll digs21:01
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notmynameEmilienM: I did, and left some comments on the spec21:01
EmilienMnotmyname: great, can you remind us the link please ?21:02
notmynamelet me find it :-)21:02
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notmyname#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181393/21:02
annegentlethanks notmyname21:02
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notmynamebut it seems there might be some assumed info that isn't in the spec either21:03
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EmilienMI guess that's something that will be discussed during the summit (?)21:03
notmynamemy biggest concern with the spec as written is the implication of client changes21:03
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EmilienMnotmyname: do you want to talk about it now? or go ahead in the agenda?21:04
annegentlenotmyname: we don't want to break clients but do want them to evolve as our service catalog gets nicer21:04
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notmynameannegentle: of course! and I think many parts of that spec are great!21:05
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annegentleEmilienM: we can continue in the spec, no prob21:05
EmilienMannegentle: ok21:05
EmilienM#topic Horizontal Team Announcements21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Horizontal Team Announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:05
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ttxOn the Design Summit front, we want to have all tracks published by the end of the week21:06
ttxSo if you haven't pushed your schedule to Cheddar yet, please do so ASAP21:06
ttxor thingee will track you down wherever you hide21:06
ttxOn the release management front, we are 2 days before the end of the liberty dev cycle21:06
EmilienM#action PTLs to update Design Schedule by the end of the week21:07
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ttxWe're respinning a few due to the webob sutuation21:07
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ttxhopefully will be done son (though Glance might take until tomorrow)21:07
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ttxIt's also more than time to complete your release notes at:21:07
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Liberty21:07
ttxThat is all from me... questions ?21:08
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EmilienMsounds like no, thanks ttx for your informations21:09
EmilienM#topic New API Guidelines ready for cross project review21:09
*** openstack changes topic to "New API Guidelines ready for cross project review (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:09
EmilienMThis topic is only added for CPL visibility. Comments should go into the review linked to below.21:09
EmilienM#link Adds an API documentation guideline document https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214817/21:09
EmilienM#link Add http400 for nonexistent resource https://review.openstack.org/#/c/221163/21:09
EmilienMannegentle: did you want to discuss about ^ ?21:10
annegentleEmilienM: I think that we're just making sure everyone knows we're freezing those for the API WG21:10
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annegentleEmilienM: so people can comment on the review21:11
EmilienM#action PTLs to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214817/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/221163/21:12
*** spotz is now known as spotz_zzz21:12
EmilienM#topic Skip meeting on next two weeks ?21:12
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EmilienMthe summit's week, I guess that's for sure21:12
EmilienMbut next week?21:12
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*** openstack changes topic to "Skip meeting on next two weeks ? (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:12
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ttxIf we don't skip we'll need a volunteer chair. i'm not around21:12
EmilienMttx: that's not an issue, I volunteer.21:12
ttxdude you are on a roll21:13
EmilienMI'll wait to see if we have an agenda21:13
EmilienMif there is no topic, I'll cancel it and use ML to let you know21:13
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jrollI can be here if we have it21:13
EmilienM#action EmilienM to be the next meeting chair21:14
EmilienM#topic Open discussion21:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:14
fungistackforge namespace retirement maintenance will commence this saturday, october 17, at 18:00 utc21:14
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Stackforge_Namespace_Retirement21:14
fungithe Stackforge_Namespace_Retirement wiki article will be locked and non-maintenance-related project-config changes frozen at 13:00 utc this friday, october 1621:14
EmilienM#info stackforge namespace retirement maintenance will commence this saturday, october 17, at 18:00 utc21:14
fungi(/me missed hitting enter before the horizontal announcements topic ended)21:15
annegentleit's here already! :)21:15
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annegentleGood deal.21:15
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EmilienMfungi: thank you for the information!21:16
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EmilienManything else to talk about for today?21:16
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shamailDoes it make sense to link cross project sessions in this meeting too?21:16
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EmilienMshamail: link how?21:17
Rockygshamail, +121:17
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annegentleoh yes21:17
shamailThe selected cross-project sessions for the upcoming summit are listed at the bottom of this etherpad.21:18
shamail#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-cross-project-session-planning21:18
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EmilienMshamail: thanks21:18
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EmilienManything else? I close the meeting in 30s otherwise21:19
shamailThanks for chairing EmilienM21:19
EmilienMthat's it for today, thanks everyone and don't forget to brush your teeth!21:19
edleafeyes, thanks!21:19
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:19
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 13 21:19:52 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:19
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-10-13-21.00.html21:19
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-10-13-21.00.txt21:19
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-10-13-21.00.log.html21:19
fungithanks EmilienM!21:20
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jrollwow, so fast21:20
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* jroll nominated EmilienM to chair every meeting21:20
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