Tuesday, 2015-12-15

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yamamotoanyone here for networking-midonet meeting?07:02
* yamamoto wait for a few minutes07:03
jfjolyHi yamamoto07:03
yamamotolet's start07:05
yamamoto#startmeeting networking_midonet07:05
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 07:05:51 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yamamoto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.07:05
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.07:05
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:05
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet'07:05
yamamoto#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet agenda07:06
yamamoto#topic Announcements07:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:06
yamamotowe are going to make 2015.1.2 release07:06
yamamotoit will contain an important fix07:07
yamamoto#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/+bug/150765107:07
openstackLaunchpad bug 1507651 in neutron "MidoNet Neutron Plugin upgrade from kilo stable 2015.1.0 to kilo unstable 2015. (MNv5.0) not supported" [Undecided,New]07:07
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yamamotoanyone has any other announcements?07:07
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yamamoto#topic end of year/new year holidays07:08
*** openstack changes topic to "end of year/new year holidays (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:08
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yamamotoi'll be absent from 2015-12-19 to 2016-01-1007:08
yamamotoso i propose to skip the next 3 meetings07:09
yamamotounless someone volunteers to chair07:09
* yamamoto waiting for volunteers07:09
yamamotook, it seems there's no volunteer.  let's skip.07:11
yamamoto#info next 3 meetings will be skipped07:11
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* yamamoto looking at calendar07:12
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yamamoto#info the next meeting will be 2016-01-1207:12
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yamamoto#topic Bugs07:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:13
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yamamotobug deputy for the last week was ryu07:13
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yamamotoit seems he is not here07:14
yamamotolet me ping him07:14
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yamamotolet's move on and come back to the topic if he came here.07:16
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yamamoto#topic Open Discussion07:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:16
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jfjoly_nothing from my side yamamoto , thanks for leading the meeting!07:17
yamamotoirena reported about her AI from the last meeting offline07:18
yamamotolet me paste it here07:18
yamamoto15:21 irenab: @yamamoto @ryu25 : hi guys. I am not sure I will attend today’s IRC meeting, so wanted to update regarding AI from last meeting regarding RFE/Spec process and update of the networking-midonet policy.07:18
yamamoto15:22 irenab: I checked other projects, but seems didn’t find any clear documented policy. I think what we discussed about adopting neutron policy makes sense.07:18
yamamoto15:23 irenab: We can add note regardingthis in  https://github.com/openstack/networking-midonet/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.rst. Let me know what you think07:18
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yamamoto15:46 yamamoto: irenab: i prefer doc/source07:19
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yamamoto16:01 irenab: yamamoto: works for me as well.07:19
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yamamotolet's go back to bug topic07:19
yamamoto#topic Bugs07:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:20
yamamotoi put my name for the next week bug deputy07:20
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yamamotoryu25: hi07:21
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yamamotoryu25: thank you for the last week's bug deputy work07:23
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yamamotoryu25: do you have anything to report?07:23
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ryu25yamamoto:  we have 4 confirmed high priority bugs right now07:26
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ryu25and two that are not triaged yet - 1525894 and 152587107:27
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ryu25they are confirmed but not prioritized07:27
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ryu25I think both are either low or medium priority07:28
bochi-michaelHenryG: Hi henry, about your comments on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/255217/7/neutron/tests/unit/api/v2/test_attributes.py07:28
bochi-michaelHenryG: "The validation could be done in other ways." do you mean I should write unit test in other way?07:29
yamamotobochi-michael: i guess you are using a wrong channel07:29
bochi-michaelyamamoto: sorry :)07:30
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ryu25yamamoto: how do you think about 1525871 set to 'low' and 1525894 set to 'medium' ?07:30
ryu25i think 1525894 may have high impact on packaging and need to be looked into07:31
yamamotoryu25: sounds reasonable to me07:31
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ryu25ok great, updated the bugs07:32
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yamamotoi'll be a bug deputy for this week.07:33
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ryu25yamamoto: thanks!07:33
yamamotoalthough i don't think i can do the full week07:33
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yamamotoie only up to Dec 1907:33
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ryu25i can fill the rest07:34
yamamotothank you07:34
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ryu25how about the next week's IRC meeting?07:34
yamamotowe decided to skip the next 3 meetings.07:34
yamamotoyou can check the meeting log :-)07:34
yamamotoi guess it's safe to skip bug deputy process as well for these weeks.  how do you think?07:35
yamamotothere will be very low activities i guess07:35
ryu25yeah you're probably right.07:36
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ryu25i wont' be around most of the last week of dec and the first week of jan07:36
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ryu25so the next Bug Deputy for the week of Jan 5th?07:37
ryu25bugs reported on the meeting of Jan 12th?07:38
ryu25bug triage results reported, i mean07:38
yamamotosure. the next meeting will be 2016-01-1207:38
ryu25ok got it07:39
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yamamotoif anyone volunteer bug deputy for any weeks, please feel free to update the wiki by yourself!07:40
yamamotoanyone has anything more to discuss?07:40
* yamamoto waiting a little07:41
ryu25i'm good!07:41
yamamotook, thank you for attending07:41
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"07:41
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 07:41:54 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)07:41
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2015/networking_midonet.2015-12-15-07.05.html07:41
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2015/networking_midonet.2015-12-15-07.05.txt07:41
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2015/networking_midonet.2015-12-15-07.05.log.html07:41
ryu25yamamoto: thank you!07:42
jfjoly_thanks ryu25 yamamoto !07:43
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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 08:00:28 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:00
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anteayahi lennyb_08:10
anteayahow are you today?08:10
lennyb_to early to say yet :), how are you?08:11
anteayagood thanks08:11
anteayamight you have anything to discuss today?08:11
lennyb_I guess it's only you and me today, and I have nothing interesting to discuss today08:11
anteayaokay thanks for letting me know08:11
anteayaneither do I08:12
anteayawe can keep the meeting open for a few minutes more08:12
lennyb_so, have a nice night///08:12
anteayathanks :)08:12
anteayahave a good day08:12
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anteayaokay I think I will close the meeting08:21
anteayaunless there is a reason to keep it open08:21
* anteaya waits a few seconds08:21
lennyb_see you next week08:21
anteayathanks lennyb_08:22
anteayasee you next week08:22
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:22
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 08:22:20 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:22
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-12-15-08.00.html08:22
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-12-15-08.00.txt08:22
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-12-15-08.00.log.html08:22
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ryu25midonet meeting starting soon08:59
ryu25yamamoto: hi09:00
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ryu25let's get started09:00
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ryu25#startmeeting midonet09:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 09:00:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ryu25. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.09:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: midonet)"09:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'midonet'09:00
ryu25#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MidoNet agenda09:01
ryu25#topic Announcements09:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: midonet)"09:01
ryu25since many will be unavailable due to the holidays in the upcoming weeks, I think it makes sense to cancel the meeting on the 29th and Jan 5th09:03
ryu25there will be one next week09:03
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ryu25let me know if that makes sense to all09:03
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ryu25#action ryu25 update the wiki about the cancelled meeetings09:04
ryu25i don't have any other announcement.  Anyone?09:05
kitsuneninetailsIs this a good place to announce bug deputy results?09:05
ryu25kitsuneninetails: yes, the next topic will be about bugs09:06
ryu25moving on09:06
ryu25#topic Bugs09:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: midonet)"09:07
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ryu25kitsuneninetails: you were the Bug Deputy last week.  Thanks for your effort!09:07
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ryu25do you have anything to share?09:08
kitsuneninetailsTHere were 0 bugs opened during the last week, keeping the total at 309:08
kitsuneninetailsThe wiki has been updated: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MidoNet09:08
ryu25thanks, that's great news09:09
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ryu25does anyone want to volunteer to be the next Bug Deputy?09:10
ryu25I will volunteer for this week09:11
ryu25#info ryu25 is the next Bug Deputy09:12
ryu25ok since we don't have any new bug to discuss, let's move on09:13
ryu25#topic Open Discussion09:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: midonet)"09:13
ryu25One topic that is being discussed in the ML is about python-midonetclient09:14
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ryu25i hope my proposal, while probably not satisfying everyone, provides a good compromise, to at least remove the dependency of PMC from the plugin09:15
ryu25i'm open to suggestions09:15
yamamoto+1 for ryu's proposal09:15
red|trelastill +1 from me :)09:16
yamamotohowever, as people against separation doesn't seem to be here, let's continue it on ML09:16
ryu25I will leave the actual task to those requesting the separation :)09:16
ryu25yamamoto: sure09:16
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red|trelayould probably also good if you could follow up with what's planned to happen with the cli, ryu2509:18
red|trelaon the ml09:18
red|trelaseems that was unclear09:18
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ryu25red|trela: you are referring to the high level client right?  No the existing cli09:19
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red|trelaokay, maybe I'm just lust in terminology here09:19
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red|trelaI was referring to the cli mentioned by Jaume and Toni on the ml...which I understood to be the "existing cli"...09:20
ryu25I will respond to the thread09:20
ryu25i think it should clear things up09:20
red|trelasounds good09:20
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ryu25right I was suggesting that for now, we may not need a separate client project, but they have grand ideas for the future :)09:22
ryu25there is no other topic I need to bring up.   Anyone else?09:22
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yamamotonothing from me09:23
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red|trelanothing from me either09:24
kitsuneninetailsI'm good09:24
ryu25ok great, thanks for attending everyone!09:25
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:25
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 09:25:24 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:25
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/midonet/2015/midonet.2015-12-15-09.00.html09:25
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/midonet/2015/midonet.2015-12-15-09.00.txt09:25
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/midonet/2015/midonet.2015-12-15-09.00.log.html09:25
red|trelathanks ryu25 and everyone09:25
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alex_xu#startmeeting nova api12:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 12:00:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.12:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.12:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_api'12:00
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alex_xuwho is here today?12:00
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alex_xuhello everyone, let's waiting one more minutes12:01
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alex_xuok, let's get start meeting12:01
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alex_xu#topic actions from last meeting12:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:01
alex_xusdague make a patch for remove 1.1 and info the ops12:01
alex_xusdague: any update for this?12:02
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sdaguedoh, I totally spaced that one12:02
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sdagueadding to my todo list for today12:02
alex_xusdague: :)12:02
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alex_xu#topic content patches up for review12:02
*** openstack changes topic to "content patches up for review (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:02
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alex_xuthanks for all the help on doc sprint12:03
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/complete-todo-in-api-concept-doc,n,z12:03
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alex_xulooks like we need more patch up12:03
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alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/api-site+branch:master+topic:fix-compute-api-ref,n,z12:04
alex_xuand looks like there isn't any active on api ref side.12:04
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alex_xuprobably most of us focus on api concept side12:04
oomichinothing, cool :)12:04
oomichiyeah, still a lot of TODO on concept side12:05
alex_xu#topic most needed next content patches12:05
*** openstack changes topic to "most needed next content patches (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:05
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johnthetubaguyyeah, on the ref side I double checked for missing things vs v2.0-ext doc again, and I think we are good now12:05
alex_xuoomichi: yeh12:05
johnthetubaguythe bits I added got merged, which is cool12:05
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: cool12:06
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alex_xuprobably I will try to fill more about extension and microversion next few weeks12:06
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alex_xuand we still have some TODOs for servers concept12:06
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alex_xuthen I think we can move some focus to api-ref?12:07
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oomichinice to move after the concept updates12:07
alex_xuanyway free to submit patch for doc12:07
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alex_xuif no more question on doc, let's move on12:08
alex_xu#topic remove project id12:08
*** openstack changes topic to "remove project id (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:08
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alex_xusdague: do you want to say something, there are a lot of active around this12:08
alex_xuinclude sample tests12:08
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sdaguehttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/233076/ is the base functional patch12:09
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sdaguealex_xu: I think you correctly asked if there is a way to turn this off in v2 compat mode, and I think we should do that12:09
* gmann_ late due to network issue12:09
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sdagueI just wasn't sure if there was a good hook or variable to know if we are in that mode12:10
alex_xusdague: I wrote a patch today for fix that12:10
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/25771912:10
sdaguealex_xu: ok, great12:10
sdagueI will look12:10
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alex_xusdague: not sure this is good way, but works12:10
alex_xusdague: thanks12:10
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sdaguethe only issue we are running into right now is that because of how the api samples engine works, microversion is applied to docs and templates12:11
sdagueso having the v2.13 docs tree is currently not possible if we don't also have a v2.13 templates tree12:11
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sdagueI've been trying to clean up a bunch of the api samples code in the process while considering how we want to move forward there12:12
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gmann_sdague: for refactoring the structure - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/255080/12:12
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gmann_sdague: for 2.13 version sample12:13
alex_xuthat is huge change12:13
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sdaguegmann_: yeh, I'm not convinced that's what we want to do yet12:14
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gmann_sdague: oh12:15
sdaguehonestly, I'm ok not quite having a solution until we clean up some of the api samples internals12:15
gmann_sdague but for version which change all APIs, we might need sonething like this12:15
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sdaguegmann_: we might12:15
gmann_sdague: i see12:15
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johnthetubaguyI do keep wondering about how we have docs and tests use the same set of files, but that might be pushing it too far too quickly12:16
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sdaguejohnthetubaguy: sorry, I'm not sure I fully understand your point12:17
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: sorry, I didn't get you12:17
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gmann_johnthetubaguy: you mean to have 1 set either under functional/api_samples or doc/api_samples12:17
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alex_xuso I think we just need help for sdague on cleanup sample tests, then waiting for figure out next step12:19
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gmann_alex_xu +112:19
johnthetubaguysorry, got distracted there12:19
* gmann_ having too much delay in msg12:20
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sdaguealex_xu: yeh, I think that's the approach. I'm kind of puttering through some cleanups - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/257439/ reviews from there down would be good12:20
alex_xusdague: cool12:20
johnthetubaguygmann_ +1 to your description of what I was thinking12:20
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sdaguejohnthetubaguy: except they are 2 different things12:20
sdaguebecause we do a 3 way compare12:20
sdaguetemplate to response, template to static document12:20
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sdagueso that the code that fills things into the template doesn't end up something crazy12:21
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gmann_sdague 1 question on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/256387/12:21
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sdagueand the docs files are used on our api site12:21
gmann_sdague you are planning to update this or putting this idea into separate patches?12:22
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johnthetubaguyyeah, I guess we need the control the template gives us12:22
sdaguegmann_: I'm trying to clean up the rest of the api samples code first to make that patch simpler12:22
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gmann_sdague ok. Thanks12:22
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sdaguejohnthetubaguy: yeh, the philosophy of the api samples got a little lost over time.12:22
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sdaguedoing this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/257439 meant I had to touch nearly every file, and found some of drift12:23
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sdagueI'll try to write up some test writing guide after this is all done12:23
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johnthetubaguysdague: sweet, good to record the intent12:24
alex_xusdague: +112:24
gmann_sdagueyea nice idea12:24
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alex_xuok, I guess this all about sample tests, let's move on?12:25
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sdagueanyway, reviews on those cleanups would be nice, I'm about 6 deep right now, plus the glance api servers series, and I'm out next 2 weeks12:25
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sdagueso I'd like to get as much landed this week as possible12:25
alex_xuI will focus on review those cleanup patch this week12:25
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gmann_me too.12:25
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alex_xusdague: free to let me know if you need any coding help at here12:26
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sdaguealex_xu: sure, will do12:26
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alex_xuok, so let's move on12:26
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alex_xu#topic API futures - specs12:26
*** openstack changes topic to "API futures - specs (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:26
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alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/239276/12:26
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alex_xuI saw comments said this patch need discussion12:27
yalieyes, this is for revming the verification of Ip address12:27
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yalieIP address is not mandarery in port of neutron now12:28
yalieso we want to remove it in nova side too12:28
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alex_xuThat changed the API behavior, so we need microversion at here12:28
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yalieyes, I just add a new patch which discribe it.12:29
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johnthetubaguyso... the change is12:29
oomichiwe need to change validation on json-schema or more deep code?12:29
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: we already freeze the spec, so this change can we continue, except it is bug fix12:29
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johnthetubaguywhen a port explicitly asks to not have an IP address, we should honour that12:29
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alex_xus/so this change can/so this change whether can/12:29
sdagueI'm really not comfortable with "But12:30
sdaguethere are some scenarios where the user doesn't want Neutron to handle any of12:30
sdaguethe addressing or the IP level filtering because a completely separate system12:30
sdagueis managing that."12:30
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yaliejohnthetubaguy: yes,12:30
johnthetubaguywell, not sure its really a bug fix as such, but seems rude to block neutron if we can deal with it12:30
sdaguebecause I don't want nova having to plug into something beyond that12:30
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: ok, got it12:31
sdaguewhat attribute in neutron specifies that a port has no address intentional?12:31
yaliesdague: I think that is some IPAM backed to manager the IP address12:31
johnthetubaguysdague: it does seem to erode some assumptions that make me uneasy too12:31
sdagueyalie: right, and I think that should be a neutron backend12:31
sdaguethat is kind of the whole point of having neutron12:31
yaliesdague: yes12:31
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sdaguethat it provides that abstraction12:32
yaliesdague: part of neutron12:32
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johnthetubaguynow, if there are ports that don't need an IP, because its just doing L2 forwarding, then make thats reasonable?12:32
yaliesdague: but from vendor, maybe outside of neutron.12:32
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sdagueyalie: it should still be plugged in via neutron interfaces12:33
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yaliesdague: yes12:33
yaliejohnthetubaguy: yes12:33
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sdagueok, so the question really is, is there an attribute set on a port today which says "I don't have an address, intentionally" and what is that?12:33
yaliesdague: no, we don't have this attr12:34
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sdaguebecause I'm ok if this is part of the trust arrangement with neutron that we don't error when neutron tells us not to12:34
sdaguebut I don't want to do it in the common case12:34
yaliesdague: neutorn port could have no IP address12:34
johnthetubaguysdague: right12:34
johnthetubaguyso its this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vm-without-l3-address12:34
sdaguebecause I think that's a degradation for the majority of users12:34
johnthetubaguyas I understand it12:34
sdagueyalie: ok, so that's what you need first12:34
johnthetubaguywhen the Port says "ME HAVE NO IP ADDRESS" I am OK with honouring that, I guess, but otherwise, we should still error if there is no IP address12:35
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alex_xuyalie: there will be no subnet in network when we didn't want ip in port?12:35
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johnthetubaguyhang on, not sure that spec has the extra port property we are neededing, my bad12:36
yaliesdague: that's not for this, that attr is for control the L2ONLY spoofing12:36
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yaliesdague: when no IP address12:36
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yaliesdague: that neutron's port could have no IP don't depend on it, it has been supported for a while12:36
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johnthetubaguyyalie: so we added this check in Nova for a very strong reason12:37
johnthetubaguyyalie: users got very confused, and ended up with VMs they couldn't use12:37
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yaliewe can add/remove the IP addrss of the port from neutron API12:37
sdagueyalie: right, as johnthetubaguy said, we have this check because in the common case this completely confuses and breaks normal users12:37
johnthetubaguynow if you explicitly say "hey this port should have no IP address", then thats cool12:37
sdaguethis is clearly an exceptional case12:37
sdagueit should be treated as such12:37
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johnthetubaguyyalie: I consider that a neutron bug, honestly12:38
sdagueso require specific exception12:38
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johnthetubaguysdague: +112:38
sdaguewhich means the port needs to declare it's intent to not have an address12:38
sdaguenot happen to not have an address12:38
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yalieuser could get a port no IP, and that would what they want to get.12:38
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sdagueyalie: right, but I don't think you are listening, we want this explicit12:39
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sdagueanyway, I left a -1 with review comments there12:39
yalieI see12:39
johnthetubaguythe check we added was due to real user issues12:39
alex_xuI think probably we should send this to the email, then get neutron guys feedback?12:39
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johnthetubaguywe should reply on the spec12:39
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: ok12:39
johnthetubaguyits very confusing to split info between both the ML and the spec, really12:40
johnthetubaguyunless we really need to12:40
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: got it12:40
gmann_separate question, any plan to remove proxy of other services from Nova with single microversion ?12:40
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sdaguegmann_: not any time soon, maybe next cycle12:41
oomichigmann_: a single microversion will be huge impact to users..12:41
gmann_sdague: ok, it will be nice to remove those :)12:41
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gmann_oomichi: hummm, may be service by service?12:41
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oomichigmann_: that seems user-friendly :)12:42
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alex_xuI guess that is future thing12:42
alex_xuso let's move on12:42
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gmann_alex_xu: yea12:42
johnthetubaguyyeah, its next release12:42
alex_xu#topic API futures - patches for approved specs12:42
*** openstack changes topic to "API futures - patches for approved specs (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:42
johnthetubaguysame for volume stuff12:42
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alex_xu#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/082113.html12:43
alex_xusome contributor get trouble with this, I probably will try to help him12:43
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alex_xuwe need pass the microversion info into the extension point12:43
johnthetubaguyhe did reach on IRC12:43
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johnthetubaguythe request does have the API version, so it can work correctly, roughly12:44
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yeh, he ping me last night, but he quits IRC when I wake up12:44
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johnthetubaguybut honestly, I think its probably better just to put that directly into the existing update method12:44
sdagueis there an existing patch up?12:44
johnthetubaguyI know its got big, but it seems simpler to have that all in one place really12:44
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea, that will be good, but what about existed server_create method in user-data, move that also?12:45
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johnthetubaguysdague: I think it actually relates to this spec: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/mitaka/approved/user-data-modification.html12:45
alex_xusdague: not yet, at least I didn't saw one12:45
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: I think so12:45
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: probably I can have a patch up for merge user-data into servers12:46
sdaguealex_xu: so, honestly, I think we need to figure out how to start collapsing the extrypoint code. As we're moving to not letting people disable these, we should stop treating them as pluggable things in the code12:46
sdaguewhich might simplify12:46
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alex_xusdague: yes, that means we need change our existed framework12:46
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gmann_so no extension discovery at all right?12:47
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johnthetubaguysdague: +1, once we remove that config12:47
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alex_xusdague: but I'm not sure how much work on this, and it needs some review I guess, that will block other developer12:47
johnthetubaguygmann_: thats now microversions right?12:47
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oomichigmann_'s point is nice12:48
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: exactly12:48
gmann_johnthetubaguy yea12:48
oomichilist-extensions api cannot work if merging into a single place12:48
sdaguealex_xu: right, so for the user_data, I think just moving into servers is probably fine12:48
alex_xuso probably two choices for now, merge the user-data into server or pass version to extension point12:48
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johnthetubaguyoomichi: it works, its just a static list now12:48
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: right12:48
alex_xusdague: ok12:48
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gmann_but it might makes code little bit complex to have all merge in main fucntions?12:49
oomichijohnthetubaguy: yeah, we can do that. but the code becomes really meaningless if doing that12:49
sdaguehonestly, long term, it would be really nice if the API code looked like the REST tree12:49
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oomichibut can agree with that because of microversions12:49
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alex_xu#action alex_xu take a look at merge user-data into servers and contact the conributor12:49
johnthetubaguygmann_: it also makes it complex to split a single API across three files, with different bits of versions all over the place12:49
sdagueyeh, the current splits are really weird12:49
johnthetubaguysdague: +112:49
sdagueand you have extension file which are nearly all boiler plate12:50
johnthetubaguysdague: +1 for the code looking more like the REST API12:50
johnthetubaguyoomichi: what do you mean the code becomes meaningless?12:50
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gmann_i think there are more cases of server create, other are few12:50
oomichicurrent list of extensions are gotten from current extension framework12:50
sdagueoomichi: right, but we've deprecated that12:50
johnthetubaguygmann_: when everything is always on by default, there will be much less branching in there12:51
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sdagueextensions are no longer a thing in the future12:51
oomichibut if merging them into a single, nova needs to contain static list12:51
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sdagueoomichi: right12:51
johnthetubaguyoomichi: agreed12:51
gmann_and implementation vise we can rearange the server create also but from single function12:51
sdagueit's only there for compatibility reasons12:51
oomichisdague: yeah12:51
alex_xuone more work in this release, we should remove the extension white/block options12:51
sdaguealex_xu: honestly, that's also probably next cycle because we need a better story around policy12:52
oomichito be honest, I am still afraid to merge them into a single, because servers.py will be huge12:52
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: honestly, I think we might want to wait until next cycle, its a big thing to remove12:52
oomichiand unreadable12:52
johnthetubaguysdague: yeah, policy... arg12:52
sdagueok, we're drifting12:52
alex_xufor now, our developer have to something like this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128940/90/nova/api/openstack/compute/extension_info.py ...12:52
sdagueso API related patches12:52
gmann_oomichi yea, like legacy server create code12:52
sdaguethis changes the way we configure glance servers12:53
sdagueit's needed to be able to root all the services at one http server on subtrees12:53
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sdagueI also found a couple more XML references in our docs - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/257506/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/257507/12:54
johnthetubaguydid we agree on the way forward for that extending of user_data, I think just do in inline right?12:54
johnthetubaguysdague: should we add the XML stuff into the above topic?12:54
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: I'm ok with that12:55
oomichijohnthetubaguy: +112:55
sdagueso, we could, although honestly I'd rather just get a better dashboard12:55
alex_xu5 mins left12:56
sdagueI think that catches most things12:56
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alex_xulet me jump to open directly, because I saw something in agenda12:56
alex_xu#topic open12:56
*** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:56
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gmann_sdague Thanks, thats nice12:57
oomichisdague: cool dashboard12:57
alex_xusdague: cool12:57
Kevin_ZhengHI, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/248989/12:58
Kevin_Zhengthis patch12:58
johnthetubaguyadded the dashboard into the bottom of https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-priorities-tracking12:58
Kevin_Zhengit exposes Quiesce and Unquiesce API12:58
Kevin_Zhengthe spec has already approved12:58
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Kevin_ZhengHope more people can review this one12:59
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johnthetubaguyKevin_Zheng: I have marked the blueprint as NeedsCodeReview, so reviewers know its ready12:59
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alex_xuso one min left12:59
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Kevin_Zhengjohnthetubaguy, Thanks alot13:00
Kevin_Zhengjohnthetubaguy: Thanks alot13:00
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alex_xuok, thanks for all, free to openstack-nova to continue discussion13:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 13:00:31 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-12-15-12.00.html13:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-12-15-12.00.txt13:00
gmann_Thanks All13:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-12-15-12.00.log.html13:00
Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 13:00:53 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
Qiminghi, Liuqing13:01
Qiming#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda13:01
Qimingplease check the agenda and see if you want to add something13:02
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yanyanhuhaiwei is logging, he met some network issues13:02
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Qimingyes, saw that, yanyanhu13:02
Qiminglet's get started13:02
Qiming#topic mitaka work items13:03
*** openstack changes topic to "mitaka work items (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:03
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-mitaka-workitems13:03
Qimingheat resource type support13:03
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elynnI'm working on update for cluster13:03
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Qimingneed help?13:03
elynnbut I notice that there are many adjustment when doing update13:04
elynnYes, have some questions13:04
elynnDo we need to support them all?13:04
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Qimingthink from heat's perspective13:05
elynnIf so, I might need to add more properties...13:05
Qimingwe won't be able to support all IMO13:05
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Qimingbecause heat is about nouns, not verbs13:05
elynnlike update_policy or something...13:05
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Qimingthe only way to make change is through the single command 'stack-update'13:05
elynnSo for now, it's easy to support this adjustment type https://github.com/openstack/python-senlinclient/blob/master/senlinclient/v1/shell.py#L76813:05
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Qimingthe resize operation is too flexible for heat to invoke13:06
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QimingI'm suggesting that we think from heat's perspective13:06
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elynnQiming: Yes, I think so...13:07
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Qimingwhat Heat sees is a cluster resource with 'desired_capacity', 'min_size', max_size' etc13:07
Qimingthose are properties you can change through heat13:07
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Qimingchange <=> update13:07
elynnSo we need to have an agreement here, that we are not support to resize cluster by percentage for now.13:07
yanyanhuyes, just as Qiming said, we actually don't need to support anyone of them for cluster update13:08
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Qimingthere is no 'resize' operation from heat13:08
yanyanhuso we just need to pick one for backend implmentation13:08
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elynnOK I got your point, for now I will only support to update desired_capacity', 'min_size', max_size' etc13:08
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Qimingother questions?13:09
elynnok, then my codes for that will be ready soon.13:09
elynnHave you review exists codes?13:09
Qimingyes, they look fine to me13:09
elynnThey are ready for review.13:09
QimingI'm holding my +213:10
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elynngood, let's wait a while for other reviewers.13:10
Qimingwill continue to help review to make the code satisfactory to all reviewers13:10
Qimingmoving on13:10
Qiming#topic client test13:10
*** openstack changes topic to "client test (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:10
Qimingpatch #251798 is merged13:11
patchbotQiming: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/251798/ - Add test case for v1/shell.py part2 (MERGED)13:11
QimingI'm not working on that recently13:11
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Qiminghaiwei is offline again13:12
Qiminglet's move on13:12
Qiming#topic API modification13:12
*** openstack changes topic to "API modification (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:12
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QimingI think we are almost done with it13:12
yanyanhuI saw related workitem has been removed from TODO13:12
Qimingneed a release note for this13:13
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Qimingwill remove it from etherpad after adding a release note13:13
Qiming#topic health policy13:13
*** openstack changes topic to "health policy (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:13
Qimingxinhui and I had a discussion last weekend13:14
elynnAny conclusion?13:14
QimingI think we have got a rough idea for implementing this, xinhui has already started playing with some polling code13:14
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Qimingwell, we need some design docs for this, at least a blueprint for guys to review13:15
lixinhuiQiming, I will draft one13:15
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Qimingokay, it's yours now, lixinhui13:15
lixinhuifor you and everyone's review13:15
Qiminglet's wait for something to review13:16
Qiming#topic profile support for update13:16
*** openstack changes topic to "profile support for update (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:16
Qimingthis is a huge topic, will stay there for a long time I guess13:16
Qimingbesides nova server profile, we also need to consider heat stack profile13:16
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Qimingyanyanhu, anything new from you?13:17
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yanyanhusorry just didn\t spend so much time on this work last week13:17
elynnI think heat stack profile might be easy to update by calling stack-update13:17
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yanyanhutrapped by mesos works...13:17
yanyanhuwill resume the progress this week13:17
Qiming#topic receiver13:18
*** openstack changes topic to "receiver (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:18
Qiminglast week we have db layer and engine layer merged13:18
yanyanhuand I will start thinking about update of heat stack profile type13:18
Qimingwill continue to finish the engine layer13:18
yanyanhuyea, I saw engine and db realted support have been added13:18
Qimingwhen creating a receiver of webhook, we will do something simpler13:18
Qimingpreviously, we over-designed the authentication support13:19
QimingI'm thinking of simplifying it13:19
yanyanhuyes, saw your comment in whiteboard13:19
Qimingwill propose something for review this week13:19
yanyanhuI think I agree with it13:19
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yanyanhuquick question, so refactoring of Webhook class will come later?13:20
Qimingthere won't be a refactor of webhook class13:20
yanyanhuespecially about the creation13:20
QimingI'm working on it13:20
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Qimingthe credential generation and url creation process is too/unnecessarily complicated13:21
yanyanhujust saw a simple definition here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/257046/3/senlin/engine/receiver.py13:21
elynnhi xuhaiwei13:21
Liuqinghi xuhaiwei13:21
Qimingfinally, xuhaiwei, :)13:21
lixinhuihi haiwei13:21
xuhaiweiI come from my phone13:21
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Qimingi'm thinking of an alarm_url of format: http://ip:port/v1/webhooks/<webhook_id/trigger?v=1?params=blah13:22
Liuqinghaha  anyway..13:22
yanyanhuI guess we still need a function like 'generate_channel' for each type of receiver?13:22
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Qimingeach receiver type will override that method to create a channel13:22
yanyanhuI'm ok with that13:22
yanyanhuthis is what I mean13:22
Qimingmoving on13:23
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Qiming#topic engine improvement13:23
*** openstack changes topic to "engine improvement (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:23
Qimingfuntional test for lock breaker?13:23
elynnI found it's hard to simulate lock breaker in functional tests13:23
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xuhaiweimaybe I have missed a lot, about the web hook creation, I agree that we should improve the url creation13:23
elynnwe need to kill senlin-engine during functional  tests, but that might affect other tests.13:24
Qimingxuhaiwei, you can (i.e. have to) catch up later, :)13:24
yanyanhuelynn, yes, the most difficult part is how to avoid influencing other test cases that run concurrently :)13:24
elynnUnless I can operated db_api directly to create a fake dead action, but it's not doable in functional tests.13:25
Qimingmaybe we need a different gate job?13:25
xuhaiweiabout the engine-lock breaker, can we test it by hand, maybe not by source code?13:25
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yanyanhuanyway to enforce functional test cases run sequently?13:25
Qimingyanyanhu, I have no idea13:25
elynnxuhaiwei: Yes, we can tests it by hand, I write the reproduce steps in the bug report13:25
yanyanhuQiming, that is possible.Or we just split them in post_test_hook?13:26
Liuqingagree with xuhaiwei , now could we reproduce the lock breaker?13:26
Qiminglooks like we need a separate gate job for this13:26
yanyanhubut that still needs individual tox test entry definition13:26
Qimingplease keep digging13:27
yanyanhuLiuqing, we can produce it by 'kill -1 $PID_ENGINE'13:27
Qimingunit test for parser is done13:27
elynnok, so the worst situation is to create a new gate job for this?13:27
yanyanhuservice will be restarted and new engine will be created13:27
yanyanhuelynn, yes, I guess so13:28
elynnQiming:  Yes13:28
yanyanhubut maybe we can avoid it13:28
xuhaiweiunit test for v1/shell.py is alomost, I will submit part3 tomorrow13:28
Qimingthanks, xuhaiwei13:28
yanyanhuelynn,  lets make some further discussion later13:28
elynnyanyanhu: let me dig more deeper.13:28
Qimingxuhaiwei, then we will need to cleanse the senlinclient code13:28
Qimingwe are removing the models and client code from senlinclient13:29
xuhaiweiby writ ing test case, I fixed some bugs , so it took a little time13:29
xuhaiweiyes, Qiming13:29
Qiming#topic functional test broken13:29
*** openstack changes topic to "functional test broken (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:29
xuhaiweiyou mean we should try to put them all in SDK?13:29
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Qimingwe are still trapped by the db concurrency problem13:30
Qimingwill keep digging into that13:30
Qimingfirst thing is to remove the MutableList data type, it is not concurrency friendly anyway, and see if that solves the problem13:30
Qimingthe last resort woud be some per-session isolation level customization, which will make the code veeeeeeeeeeeeery ugly13:31
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yanyanhuQiming, I think the latest patch has fixed this issue?13:31
Qimingyanyanhu, not 100% sure13:31
Qimingstill need to watch it13:32
yanyanhuok, will also help to do some tests locally13:32
Qiming#topic High priority bugs13:32
*** openstack changes topic to "High priority bugs (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:32
Qimingthe first one is what we have been talking about13:32
Qimingyanyanhu, 'check experimental' still fails with that patch, though in different ways13:33
Qimingneed to look into the detailed logs13:33
yanyanhuQiming, ok, will dig it13:34
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Qimingbug #1486381 seems not completely solved yet, need to watch it13:34
openstackbug 1486381 in senlin "node-deadlocked-by-action" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1486381 - Assigned to Yanyan Hu (yanyanhu)13:34
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Qimingbug #1509145 is solved13:34
openstackbug 1509145 in senlin "node status should update to 'ERROR' when fail to create nova instance " [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1509145 - Assigned to lvdongbing (dbcocle)13:34
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yanyanhuyes, I remeber this bug13:34
yanyanhuwill check whether it is still there after applying elynn's patch about lock breaker13:35
Qimingbug #1495449 is the same?13:35
openstackbug 1495449 in senlin "cluster action dependency list can't be updated correctly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495449 - Assigned to Yanyan Hu (yanyanhu)13:35
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yanyanhuQiming, this is the bug about concurrency issue in DB13:35
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yanyanhuI reopened it about two weeks ago13:36
Qimingokay, we still need to solve 1486381 right?13:36
yanyanhuI think we need more tests and verification before closing it again13:36
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yanyanhuhmm, not sure, but I guess so13:36
yanyanhuI hope elynn's patch have resolved it13:36
yanyanhubut need confirmation13:36
Qimingokay, please help verify13:37
elynnyanyanhu, If not, I will work on it...13:37
yanyanhuelynn, thanks :)13:37
QimingI have spent some time on clearing the backlog of bug reports13:37
yanyanhu#action recheck assigned bugs13:37
Qimingnow it is almost clean13:37
Qimingwith recent changes at gate, we will have bugs automatically closed13:38
QimingHaven't spent time on the blueprint backlog13:38
Qimingokay, feel free to comment13:39
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xuhaiweiI assigned a new BP about cross az/region deletion policy13:40
Qimingand ... I'm moving on, :) got quite some topics to cover today13:40
Qiming#topic mid-cycle meetup13:40
*** openstack changes topic to "mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:40
Qimingthanks xuhaiwei13:40
xuhaiweiI like this topic13:40
xuhaiweimid-cycle meetup13:40
xuhaiweishould we have it in Beijing?13:40
Qimingyes, would like to hear what you think13:40
yanyanhuthe key is where is the meeting site :)13:40
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xuhaiweiI want to breath some Beijing's air13:41
lixinhuibrave man13:41
Qimingxuhaiwei, ...13:41
yanyanhuyou're brave13:41
Qimingokay, we can host you13:41
xuhaiweiif you need some masks, I will take for you13:41
yanyanhuwow, that will be great :)13:42
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xuhaiweido we actually need one? if it is, how long will last13:42
Qimingif guys are interested in sitting together for a hot discussion, please propose a date time?13:42
elynnand when13:42
yanyanhumaybe just a simple meetup, like what we have done in Tokyo13:43
Qiming... we will have meeting room13:43
Qimingnot just a table, :)13:43
xuhaiweiIBM will host?13:43
yanyanhumaybe in our office?13:43
Qimingyes, we'd love to13:44
yanyanhuI guess that is ok for us?13:44
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Qimingor we can go to vmware site?13:44
lixinhuiwe can offer free drinks and cakes13:45
Qimingyes, i like your office!13:45
yanyanhuabout the date, I think that depends on when is convenient time for you guys who have to travel to Beijing13:45
xuhaiweisounds great13:45
yanyanhuQiming, me too!13:45
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Qimingnext week would be a busy week for me13:46
QimingI may have to travel13:46
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yanyanhuwhat about you, xuhaiwei ?13:46
yanyanhumost of us are in Beijing :)13:46
xuhaiweiand for me, the new years vocation will be about 10 days13:46
Qimingright, xuhaiwei, you will be the VIP13:46
QimingLiuqing, can you come?13:47
xuhaiweiif the meet up is long enough, I will probably go13:47
Liuqingi'm coming13:47
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yanyanhuLiuqing is not in Beijing?13:47
Qimingthanks. let's schedule for two days13:47
xuhaiweiif it is only half of a day, I think I can't go13:47
LiuqingI'm in wuxi,jiangsu13:47
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yanyanhunice place :)13:48
lixinhuiI like wuxi too13:48
yanyanhuQiming, two days is ok for me13:48
Liuqinghaha  thanks yanyanhu, lixinhui13:48
Qimingxuhaiwei, please let us know your preferred date13:48
xuhaiweiI will report to my leader tomorrow to get the budget13:48
Qimingwe will schedule this13:48
elynnAnytime is ok for me ;)13:48
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xuhaiweiok, Qiming13:49
Qiming#topic release model13:49
*** openstack changes topic to "release model (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:49
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Qimingjust got email from ttx, he suggests we switch from release:independent to release:cycle-with-intermediary13:49
Qimingit is for better release management13:49
Qimingeventually, we are moving to that model13:50
yanyanhuintermediary means?13:50
Qimingsince ttx is encouraging us to do that earlier13:50
Qimingmaybe we should follow his suggestions13:50
xuhaiweialso don't understand what we should do13:51
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elynnAny code change in senlin?13:51
QimingThe “release:cycle-with-intermediary” tag describes which projects follow the second option: multiple releases during the development cycle, with a final release to match the end of the cycle.13:51
Qimingno code change in senlin13:52
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Qimingwe will be doing release tagging more frequently13:52
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yanyanhuI see13:52
Qiminghave to set clearer goals for each milestone13:52
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Qimingjust want to share with the team where we are13:53
Qimingwe could have produced a release earlier13:53
QimingThere are many temptations to do that13:53
Qimingbut we are trying to get our code as stable as possible before doing the first release13:54
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Qimingthat is the only reason we are not releasing things so far13:54
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Qiming#topic open13:54
*** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:54
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Qimingsorry for always talking tooooooo much13:54
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yanyanhuthis is what you should do :)13:55
yanyanhuas the ptl13:55
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yanyanhuQiming, I think we can catch next milestone since the API reorg has almost been done13:55
yanyanhuand also the rework of receiver is in good progress13:55
xuhaiweisome new guys came to senlin recently13:55
Qimingyes, we also need to get the top priority bugs fixed13:55
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yanyanhuafter verifying the DB concurrency issue is resovled, I think we are ready for it13:56
Qimingyanyanhu, agreed13:56
Qiming... receiver13:56
* Qiming is kicking himself13:56
xuhaiweidoes anyone hear about tempest-plugin?13:57
yanyanhuxuhaiwei, great13:57
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yanyanhuwhat is that for?13:57
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xuhaiweithat is something for external project unit test which can be ran in tempest13:57
xuhaiweinot know well about that13:58
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QimingIf I'm understanding it correctly, it can help do some surface test13:58
xuhaiweithere is a tempest core in our team who is an expert13:58
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QimingI know the defcore project is relying on tempest13:59
xuhaiweilike make a link from senlin unit test to tempest, and then ran it from tempest13:59
elynnhe suggest we move functional tests base on tempest plugin?13:59
Qimingxuhaiwei, go ahead13:59
xuhaiweino, elynn13:59
Qimingwe will continue to be a good citizen in the community, following whatever guidance if needed13:59
xuhaiweisome projects are importing it13:59
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xuhaiweimaybe we need someday14:00
Qimingtime's up guys14:00
xuhaiweisee u14:00
Qimingthanks for joining14:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 14:00:25 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-12-15-13.00.html14:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-12-15-13.00.txt14:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-12-15-13.00.log.html14:00
armax#startmeeting networking14:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 14:00:51 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:00
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* regXboi is here but a little busy for the first 30 minutes or so :(14:01
dasmhello o/14:01
annpHi all,14:01
garykhi all14:01
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ajoo/ hi14:01
* Sam-I-Am is here but pre-coffee14:01
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garykSam-I-Am: tmi14:01
Sam-I-Amgaryk: ha14:01
* ajo is in post-lunch coffee14:01
Sam-I-Amgaryk: be very afraid14:01
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garykSam-I-Am: :)14:01
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armaxlast week we started going over the blueprint and RFE backlog14:01
* regXboi asks "what is coffee?"14:01
armaxwe only managed to go through half14:01
garyki am only afraid of the wrath of the ptl ...14:02
Sam-I-Amarmax: isnt it super early for you?14:02
armaxit was decided to go over the other half this time14:02
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armaxSam-I-Am: yes it is14:02
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armaxgaryk: you experienced nothing of my wrath yet14:02
armaxgaryk: you’ll see14:02
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armaxso before we dive in14:02
sbelous_hi there14:03
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armaxI’ll like to summon HenryG14:03
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armaxas he was the deputy for last week14:03
armax#topic Bugs14:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:03
Vikram___Sorry to be late14:03
garykHenryG: chop chop14:03
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garykon that note, if people are away next week i can take the role14:03
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armaxbefore HenryG refreshed his memory14:04
armaxthis week’s deputy is carl_baldwin14:04
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armaxthe next couple of weeks I expect are gonna be quite14:04
armaxbut we’re uncovered14:04
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armaxanyone (who hasn’t done it before) willing to volunteer?14:04
HenryGsorry I didn't realize we were startgin with bugs14:05
amotokinext week? I can14:05
dougwigEvery Tim a bug is filed, drink a glass of egg nog.14:05
HenryGThere is not much to report14:05
Sam-I-Amdougwig: i like your thinking14:05
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armaxamotoki: ok14:05
ajoI will be PTO'ing from Dec 21st to Jan 4th but It'd be glad to take another slot afterwards14:05
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armax#action amotoki deputy for the week of Dec 2114:06
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HenryGI will note there is no critical gate bug, yet the need to do rechecks remains uncomfortably high14:07
armaxHenryG: ok, not even a little gossip?14:07
armaxHenryG: I noticed there was a gate failure with linuxbridge14:07
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armaxbut it didn’t seem to occur often in the gate14:07
Sam-I-Amarmax: master or another branch?14:08
armaxthe new logstash UI and way to share urls is appalling to say the least14:08
armaxSam-I-Am: I think it was master14:08
Sam-I-Amhmm odd, we found some problems in stable/liberty last week14:08
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dougwigDo we need to file something for that? Who is on that?14:08
armaxSam-I-Am: I know that stable broke at one point14:08
Sam-I-AmHenryG: can you feed me a link to a broken patch?14:08
armaxSam-I-Am: it’s on the bug report14:08
armaxhang on14:08
HenryGI think we're being dragged down by multiple low-frequency issues14:08
armaxSam-I-Am: it was master14:09
armaxHenryG: where?14:09
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Sam-I-Amarmax: i'll poke at this14:10
HenryGarmax: just in general14:10
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armaxI added the linuxbridge job to the dashboard, the failure rate seems relatively under control14:10
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armaxwe’ll keep on monitoring it14:10
HenryGarmax: I wish it were easy to pin down14:10
armaxHenryG: ok14:10
armaxHenryG: yes, it can be very dauting to pinpoint where issues lie14:11
armaxthanks HenryG!14:11
armaxlet’s move on14:11
armax#topic Blueprints14:11
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armaxlast week we finished with the autogen of config files14:11
armaxnext up is14:12
armax#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-lb-ratelimit-support14:12
Sam-I-Ami'm working through the docimpact bugs for those14:12
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armaxihrachys: ping14:12
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armaxwhiteboard is langhishing14:12
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ihrachysarmax: we have some patches up, but needed to accommodate for common l2 agent code work by Andreas14:13
armaxthe only patch I can see is this one:14:13
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ihrachysalso LB fullstack/functional tests are needed, Slawek is working on them14:13
armaxihrachys: ok14:13
ihrachysyou better check all work by Slawek: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/owner:slawek%2540kaplonski.pl+status:open,n,z14:13
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ihrachyshe seems to work on this stuff only14:13
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ihrachysso there is work ongoing, hopefully, M214:14
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armaxihrachys: ok cool14:14
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armax#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/add-availability-zone14:15
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armaxhichihara and armax are tagged on this one14:15
armaxI can give an update14:15
armaxthis is mostly complete: we need tests to merge and docs to go in14:15
armaxthere was a performance issue14:16
armaxintroduced lately14:16
armaxbut kevinbenton is working on it14:16
garykwhat was nice about this one is that all of the release notes were added with the patches :)14:16
armaxyes, mestery is thankful for that and all the patches that do provide notes14:16
armaxthere was another issue discovered with the way agents were balanced14:16
hichiharaPlease review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/210977/ :) And I also upload doc patch tomorrow.14:17
armaxso it looks like the feature is being looked at and issues are being discovered14:17
* carl_baldwin notes to add release notes to some patches14:17
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armaxnext up14:18
xiaohhuiAnother issue for AZ needs review14:18
armax#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/network-ip-usage-api14:18
armaxxiaohhui: yes, that’s the one I was referring to14:18
armaxkevinbenton: you up?14:18
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hichiharaxiaohhui: Thank you for your help. It's ready for me.14:18
armaxwhat’s up with this one?14:19
xiaohhuinp :)14:19
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armaxkevinbenton: looks like the spec is still churning14:19
kevinbentonthe network-usage-api?14:19
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armaxkevinbenton: ya14:19
Sam-I-Amlooks like we need more paint14:20
kevinbentonthere was some confusion about whether to put the REST API in the spec14:20
armaxI’ll look into it, typically some rest snippets can be helpful for the conversation14:21
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armaxbut as usual in openstack we’re not consistent14:21
armaxand there’s no enforcement14:21
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armaxkevinbenton: any code ready to be reviewed?14:22
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kevinbentonarmax: i'm not sure. i think there was something they had floating around a while ago but i'm not sure it has been updated14:22
armaxkevinbenton: can you find out, please?14:23
kevinbentonarmax: ok14:23
armaxkevinbenton: is there david around?14:23
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kevinbentonarmax: i don't know14:23
armaxbetween you and him, we should be able to find out anything there is to know about the blueprint14:24
armaxapprover and assignee should got it covered14:24
armaxnext up14:24
armax#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/select-active-l3-agent14:24
xiaohhuiI am working on this one14:24
armaxamuller, anything worthy?14:24
armaxof sharing14:24
armaxxiaohhui: ok14:25
amullerthere's a new revision from like 2 minutes ago, haven't had the chance to review it14:25
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armaxxiaohhui: link?14:25
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xiaohhuiI just addressed some of martin's comment14:26
armaxso you’re still in the specification phase14:26
Sam-I-Amxiaohhui: why not just use standard vrrp priorities?14:26
amulleradding a new API that is specific to a particular flavor of routers is kinda meh, so we'll have to weigh that in when reviewing the pros and cons of the spec14:27
armaxamuller: ok14:27
xiaohhuiDon't want to make it too complicated14:27
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Sam-I-Amthis seems overly complex?14:27
armax#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/address-scopes14:27
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armaxcarl_baldwin ping14:28
armaxthis looks to have a long history of reviews14:29
carl_baldwingoing well I think.  one more patch merged14:29
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armaxcarl_baldwin: any more left?14:29
carl_baldwin3 main ones.  next one is close.  I need to address one thing today.14:29
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armaxthey are all server side?14:30
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carl_baldwinone is.  other two are agent side14:30
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armax https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/address-scopes+status:open,n,z14:31
armaxgives me 7 patches14:31
armaxthey all seem to be current14:31
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carl_baldwinoh, there is a small fix from tidwellr and a client patch for it14:31
armaxcarl_baldwin: cool, I shall be able to help with that one14:31
armaxwith amotoki14:31
armaxin fact14:31
armaxit’s already approved14:31
armaxbut it needs a rebase14:32
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armaxI’ll touch base with salv14:32
carl_baldwinstart here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189500/14:32
armaxcarl_baldwin: cool14:33
armaxnext one14:33
armax#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/rbac-qos14:33
armaxajo: news?14:33
ajohdaniel has posted a spec, 1 sec14:33
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armaxajo: need help with the spec?14:34
ajomay be some kevinbenton's eyes would be great on it14:34
armaxkevinbenton: you’re the man14:34
armaxcan you spare a few moments? you’re the RBAC father14:34
ajoit's looking good to me already, but it's likely I could be missing simething14:34
kevinbentonyeah, i'll take a look14:35
armaxRBAC’s papa14:35
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armaxajo: what about the code?14:36
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armaxI see lots of red14:36
ajowe have code, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/250081/ and ...14:36
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ajobut as you said, lot's of red, haim focused on the spec14:36
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ajoand stopped that until we make sure everything looks right, AFAIK14:36
ajobut, it didn't seem complicated give kevinbenton's framework :)14:37
armaxnext one14:37
armaxkevinbenton does spawn well when he does14:37
armax#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/bgp-dynamic-routing14:37
armaxcarl_baldwin: yello14:37
carl_baldwinHi, I sense this has stalled a bit but tidwellr has been away14:38
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Sam-I-Amcarl_baldwin: this one looks interesting14:38
carl_baldwinVikram___: how are things?14:38
Vikram___It's good14:38
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armaxdo we have a sense on how far we are14:38
Vikram___We expect reviews to be opened by this week14:39
carl_baldwinI have been in a holding pattern.  should I be reviewing now?14:39
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Sam-I-Amshould be interesting to gate this14:39
Vikram___Just Ryan need to catch up a little14:39
armaxseems there’s a bit of work to do14:39
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Vikram___Address-scope and DVR stuff is pending14:40
armaxVikram___: links?14:40
Vikram___Everything else is ready14:40
armaxVikram___: ready to review?14:40
Vikram___armax: 1 sec14:40
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armaxI see merge conflicts all over the place14:41
Sam-I-Amdoesnt look ready to me14:41
armaxme neither14:41
armaxok this needs some love14:41
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Vikram___Just got to polish a bit14:42
Sam-I-Ami see red14:42
Vikram___Will resolve by this week14:42
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armaxnext one14:42
armax#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vlan-aware-vms14:42
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armaxI have looked at this quite a bit14:42
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armaxrossella_s too I believe14:42
armaxand a few others14:43
armaxwe’re back to revising the model being proposed14:43
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armaxI need to review the latest revision14:43
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armaxbut it does look like we might have resolved the conondrum that held us back14:44
armaxwe’ll have to look at the code14:44
armaxis bence around?14:44
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armaxrossella_s: you aware of any current code being posted?14:44
rubasovI'm here14:44
armaxrubasov: hi14:45
rubasovhi armax14:45
russellblatest version looking pretty good to me14:45
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rossella_sarmax, AFAIK there was code posted, based on the old spec. I don't know of any patch for this "new" spec14:45
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rubasovI hope we can finalize it soon, so we can start coding14:45
Sam-I-Amcurious how this works with ovs14:45
armaxrossella_s, rubasov: I think it’s safe to start14:45
russellbSam-I-Am: code doesn't exist yet :)  but i can explain out of meeting14:45
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Sam-I-Amrussellb: yes, lets chat14:46
armaxunless a train wreck hits us, there should not be major changes disrupting the work14:46
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rossella_sfinally!! yuppie :)14:46
rubasovrossella: yes we need to abandon the old patches and write new stuff now14:46
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armaxI’ll ask someone from nova to make sure they are happy with the final outcome14:46
armaxrubasov: please do14:46
rossella_sarmax, good point, thanks14:46
rubasovwill do, thanks14:46
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armaxrubasov, russellb who is in charge of the nova side change14:47
armaxto deal with the bridge creation?14:47
russellbin theory the only change is to allow neutron to tell nova the name of the bridge to use14:48
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russellbinstead of only supporting a single bridge, with a name from nova.conf14:48
russellbi filed a blueprint for that, which was approved14:48
armaxrussellb: right14:48
russellbso in theory i'm in charge of the nova side of the code14:48
armaxrussellb: there you go!14:48
russellbi'm planning on implementing it14:48
russellbit should be a relatively small patch, i think :)14:48
armaxyou’d think?14:48
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Sam-I-Amrussellb: can i quote you on that?14:49
armaxthat hust require changes neutron side too14:49
russellbSam-I-Am: sure!14:49
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armaxI don’t have it handy now14:49
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armaxrussellb: obregado14:49
russellbi was planning on doing it very soon to have it in place14:50
russellbbut i got sidetracked adding Python 3 support to the Python ovs library14:50
armaxrussellb: We’ll track this neutron side too14:50
russellbarmax: sounds good14:50
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Sam-I-Amrussellb: can we talk about this too?14:50
armaxnext up14:50
russellbSam-I-Am: we can talk about ALL THE THINGS!14:50
armax#link v14:50
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0xa80f490>14:50
armax#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/add-neutron-extension-resource-timestamp14:50
armaxkevinbenton: I know there was some friction with this one14:51
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armaxthis one seems to be releted https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/add-port-timestamp14:52
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armaxwe should be able to collapse the two14:52
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armaxI smell some planning failure here14:52
kevinbentoni didn't even realize there were two separate blueprints until now14:52
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armaxok, let’s take this offline and you and I should be able to figure this out14:53
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armaxok folks, we have gone through the entire list of blueprints14:54
ajothere's a missing one :)14:54
armaxajo: which one?14:54
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ajosorry, I lost the link14:54
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ajothe connectivity without l3 address14:54
armaxwe talked about it last week14:54
armaxdidn’t we?14:54
armaxso that’s it14:54
ajoI thought we went over all of them14:54
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ajoI'd like some help from carl_baldwin on reviewing one of the patches14:54
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armaxwe’ll do this exercise again post M214:55
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armax5 minutes to spare14:55
armaxgo nuts14:55
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 14:55:20 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-12-15-14.00.html14:55
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-12-15-14.00.txt14:55
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-12-15-14.00.log.html14:55
ajobtw, carl_baldwin , if you could: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/248487/  (it touches IPAM)14:55
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armaxthanks for joining14:55
Sam-I-Amarmax: i'm already nuts14:55
armaxand keep up the good work!14:55
dasmthanks. c'ya all14:55
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mhickeybye, thanks armax14:55
ajothanks armax , & everybody14:55
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armaxSam-I-Am: go nut-er?14:55
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Sam-I-Amarmax: yeah. i did this pre-coffee :)14:56
Sam-I-Amarmax: it hurtses14:56
armaxSam-I-Am: so did I!14:56
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armaxSam-I-Am: can you believe that?14:56
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Sam-I-Amarmax: no, actually.14:56
Sam-I-Amarmax: pix or it didnt happen14:56
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carl_baldwinajo: ack14:56
armaxSam-I-Am: you don’t want to see me now14:57
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ajocarl_baldwin++ thanks14:57
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armaxkevinbenton, carl_baldwin, mestery, dougwig, HenryG, amotoki: ping15:00
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armax#startmeeting neutron_drivers15:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 15:01:20 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers'15:01
armaxI am sometimes tempted to start with neutron_divers15:01
dougwigi'd laugh if i was more awake15:02
* carl_baldwin goes to get his diving gear15:02
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armaxwe have 10 triaged, 18 confirmed and 0 new15:02
armaxlet’s squash the triaged list15:02
armaxwe’ll continue to squash the confirmed list offline15:02
armax#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.tag=rfe&orderby=datecreated&start=015:03
armaxin the order they have been submitted15:03
armax#bug 133564015:03
openstackbug 1335640 in neutron "[RFE] Neutron support for OSprofiler" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1335640 - Assigned to Ryan Moats (rmoats)15:03
kevinbenton+1 to this15:04
armaxI think this is a no brainer and regXboi has volunteered15:04
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ihrachysno brainer indeed15:04
armaxhowever I would like to see how the nova integration pans out15:04
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* regXboi wanders in15:04
regXboiso - I'd rather *not* wait entirely for nova15:04
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regXboibecause if nova derails, I still really want this15:04
dougwig+1 on this15:05
armaxregXboi: if nova derails for good reasons, what’s the point?15:05
* mlavalle I little confused..... is this neutron drivers or weekly neutron meeting?15:05
armaxmlavalle: drivers15:05
regXboiarmax: nova can derail for all sorts of things15:05
armaxregXboi: that’s not the point15:05
regXboiarmax: it depends on the definition of "good reasons"15:05
regXboiarmax: and since I'm putting my name down to spend time on this, does it really matter until I ask for reviews?15:06
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armaxregXboi: no, I am only thinking: I don’t want to have a broken osprofiler integration i ntree15:06
armaxregXboi: I’d rather wait than have yet another broken thing in the tree15:07
armaxthat’s all15:07
regXboiarmax: ok, that one made me laugh15:07
armaxlet’s approve this one, and gauge when it’s appropriate to start work on it15:07
armaxregXboi: I am glad I entartained you15:07
armaxnext one15:07
armaxbug #140507715:08
openstackbug 1405077 in neutron "Provide API to manage segmentation ranges" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/140507715:08
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ihrachysfor that one, I will note that oslo.config and nova folks were discussing general oslo.config mechanism to reread config values and trigger some actions without service restart on the last summit.15:08
armaxihrachys: that’s right15:08
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armaxihrachys: actually I looked at the code15:09
armaxand apparently we can only reload logging options for the ovs agent15:09
dougwigthe use case is general, with a very specific api. i'd rather not piecemeal as the bug suggests.15:09
armaxdougwig: right15:09
ihrachysarmax: you mean existing code? they planned for something general15:09
armaxthere’s definitely a class of configs that make sense to be driven from the api15:09
armaxihrachys: I did see code15:09
armaxin tree15:09
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ihrachysthat would allow to register reload hooks for options, and allow them to get triggered on a HUP15:10
armaxihrachys: it doesn’t seem we process HUP server side to reload configuration15:10
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ihrachysarmax: yeah, so that's limited to logging now, and there is plan to make it general15:10
ihrachysarmax: have you checked oslo.service code? I think it should be there. but I need to check.15:10
dougwigi'm not even sure that i like live config reload, personally. means i can't calmly change all the files i want, and then choose when it takes effect in total.15:10
armaxihrachys: nothing being tracked right now, because clearly we have configs that are parsed everytime and configs that are cached at initi15:10
armaxihrachys: no, I checked the neutron ovs agent code15:11
ihrachysdougwig: you still trigger a signal or smth to reload15:11
dougwigihrachys: gotcha.15:11
ihrachysarmax: I talk about other, oslo.config, mechanism15:11
dougwighup versus restart, seems really low priority to me?15:11
ihrachysdougwig: not for agents I guess? ;)15:11
armaxdougwig: the reload is something that every service should undetstand in 201515:11
armaxbut meh15:11
ihrachysagent restart can take hours.15:11
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armaxso I think this bug has sparked a more interesting conversation15:12
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ihrachysso for RFE, I would suggest the assignee to work with oslo.config folks on general mechanism, and then come back with neutron integration for stuff they care about.15:12
dougwigarmax: 5 seconds of api downtime is worth the bugs that kind of conversion always brings?  maybe, but i'm not seeing it.15:12
armaxas to what config is deemed worthy of being driven from the api and what can stay statically defined, but reloaded on the fly15:12
kevinbentonihrachys: !!! which agent restart takes hours?15:13
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dougwiguh oh, you've made him angry.15:13
ihrachyskevinbenton: well, I speak mostly about resync process15:13
armaxihrachys: that assumed that the config option is worth keeping it in a static file15:13
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kevinbentonihrachys: if we have one that takes hours i want to know so i can start work on optimizing (not really related to this discussion though)15:14
armaxkevinbenton does optmize all the things, yes, but not in this meeting15:14
armaxkevinbenton: i think ihrachys’ comment is mostly based on anectodal past evidence15:14
armaxkevinbenton: relax15:14
amotokiI agree to explore the way with config reload to satisfy the request in the bug.15:14
armaxlet’s elaborate a bit more on this one15:15
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ihrachyshuh. some folks still run OSP5, let me check my premises.15:15
amotokitaking hours(?) when restarting is a differrent topic.. though related.15:15
kevinbentonsomeone else commented on that bug though that even a hitless restart or config reload is upsetting because they have to update each server15:15
armaxbug #149544015:15
openstackbug 1495440 in python-neutronclient "bulk delete improvements" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495440 - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)15:15
armaxkevinbenton: yes, tehre’s a management pain of touching each replica of the server15:16
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armaxkevinbenton: but that can handled via sys management tools15:16
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armaxnew bug to discuss15:16
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armaxbulky deletes15:16
armaxso this is interesting because apparently we always had bulk support in the API15:16
armaxbut I am not 100% sure what’s the latest status of it15:16
armaxdougwig: really!15:17
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armaxdougwig: https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/api/v2/base.py#L7015:17
armaxnow the question is:15:17
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ihrachysarmax: it's used in create and update only15:18
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armaxihrachys: right, that is what I suspected15:18
kevinbentonso i vote just update the client to iterate15:18
kevinbentonand delete 1 by 115:19
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dougwigi like my "no, in use" errors in batches, yo.15:19
kevinbentonparity with nova and an isolated change15:19
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amotokikevinbenton: nova cli supports bulk create?15:19
armaxamotoki: yes15:19
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kevinbentonno, bulk delete15:19
armaxamotoki: but it’s fake15:20
armaxamotoki: it iterates over15:20
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armaxdougwig: you mean that the client will collect all error status and give an aggregte one?15:20
amotokiwhen we support bulk operation in CLI (not library) I first suggest to discuss it among all CLIs , especially openstackclient.15:21
dougwigarmax: i was being snarky, since delete never really deletes the first time.15:21
dougwigignore me, it's early15:21
armaxdougwig: ok15:21
* armax ignores dougwig 15:21
armaxamotoki: I wonder if this is a marginal improvement that can help the usability while we transition to the OSC15:21
armaxamotoki: when I looked around the landscape was fragmented as usual15:22
armaxsome clients did (provide bulky ops) some others didn't15:22
armaxamotoki: I’d say, if the change is small enough and we can iterate quickly15:22
armaxlet’s have it in the client side15:22
amotokiarmax: we can do it in neutornclient only15:23
armaxamotoki: ya15:23
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amotokibut we have many neutronclient-speicific command line syntax.....15:23
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armaxnot sure I grasp the implication of your .....15:23
armaxbug #149898715:24
openstackbug 1498987 in neutron "DHCP agent should provide ipv6 RAs for isolated networks with ipv6 subnets" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149898715:24
armaxihrachys: this sounds like a no-brainer to me15:24
amotokiarmax: will comment later15:24
armaxamotoki: sounds good15:24
armaxamotoki: thanks15:24
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armaxihrachys: care to elaborate a little15:25
armaxthis almost feels like no rfe at all15:25
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dougwigbut a bug15:26
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amotokiI think it is similar to a case of metadata-agent. RA is advertised from a router.15:26
* armax unignores dougwig 15:26
ihrachyswell, it's change in behaviour. some may claim it's fine that you don't get RAs without routers15:26
armaxdougwig: yes, a bug15:26
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ihrachyssince R in RA is router :)15:26
ihrachysI am happy to have it handled as a bug though.15:26
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dougwigprovider nets don't have a router, right?15:27
armaxihrachys: I see…did you get sc68cal’s opinion in private?15:27
armaxor in some other media?15:27
ihrachysarmax: I think we discussed it with him before I reported it, in irc15:27
dougwigbut i guess the ra comes from elsewhere in that case.15:27
ihrachysand he said it's a legit thing to request15:27
ihrachysI am afraid it would take some time to find a link to logs though15:27
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armaxcarl_baldwin: what’s your opinion on the matter?15:28
ihrachysdougwig: they have an external one, where we probably don't want to advert RAs.15:28
* carl_baldwin catching up, being pulled in too many directions this morning...15:29
haleybihrachys: can we not use dnsmasq for the RA instead of spinning-up radvd?  It might already be running.  I'll put that in the bug15:29
armaxihrachys: but in that case I’d argue the sanity of running the agent too15:29
armaxthe dhcp agent I mean15:29
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ihrachyshaleyb: huh. that would require some specific coding in dhcp agent though.15:29
ihrachyshaleyb: I would avoid special casing if possible.15:30
armaxihrachys: how pressing of a use case this is?15:30
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armaxihrachys: I wonder if the benefit is worth the pain15:30
haleybihrachys: right, but it might just be another command-line option.  Just thinking out loud15:30
armaxdougwig: thanks dougwig15:30
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ihrachysarmax: it was not pressing much, I was just wondering whether we can help folks that start on ipv6 and always ask the wtf question on 'why my addresses don't work on my network'15:31
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amotokican we deploy radvd with active/active mode? IIRC it needs to be active/passive, but dhcp-agent is active/active. we need more investigation.15:31
amotokibut I might be wrong.15:31
haleybi would agree this seems like a bug fwiw15:31
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ihrachysamotoki: I guess sending RAs from each node is fine since they should be identical15:31
armaxok, let’s capture the discussion on the bug report15:31
* carl_baldwin will watch bug report15:32
armaxand we’ll figure out over time what to do depending whether this becomes a pressing need15:32
armaxbug #150036515:32
openstackbug 1500365 in neutron "neutron port API does not support atomicity" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150036515:32
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armaxI wonder if we need an ‘update on unset’ field15:33
dougwignaive question: why is this not a straight up api bug, with a transaction around the field updates?15:33
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armaxit can’t be15:34
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armaxdougwig: the transaction needs to be between the GET and the PUT!15:34
armaxthe bug reads more like I want a transactional REST model15:35
armaxwhere I do a GET and a PUT in an atomic fashion15:35
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dougwigusually you do a get/put/get when you want something like that.  if the put was borking the two field updates in parallel, that'd be a bug. the get/put maybe not being consistent?  that's just rest.15:35
armaxwe should simply acknowledge the fact that none of the OpenStack API’s work like this15:36
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armaxdougwig: right15:36
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armaxthis was sparked by a bug where someone was booting two distinct vm’s with the same port15:36
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armaxnot sure how much of a use case this is15:36
amotokiI wonder if  we need some constraints on update of device_id and device_owner.15:37
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dougwigit is odd that we have port claiming being something so... unprotected.15:37
armaxso I’d say this is borderline between invalid and won’t fix15:37
armaxamotoki: that’s what I though15:37
kevinbentondougwig: well the HTTP if-match header is one way to solve this with REST15:37
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dougwighere's a shotgun. you can only aim it at your foot. have a nice day!15:37
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kevinbentonif-match can then make the db update a compare and swap15:38
armaxkevinbenton: not sure I’d implement that with if-match15:38
armaxbut that was my suggestion15:38
amotokiwe marked similar bug on device_id/owner update as won't fix several weeks ago, but we have another one now...15:38
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armaxamotoki: link15:38
armaxas this may end up meet the same faith15:38
amotokiI haven't found it yet...15:38
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dougwigkevinbenton: race still exists, unless that compare is inside the update transaction.15:38
armaxamotoki: ok, no worries, when you do, perhaps you can mark it duplicated of this one15:38
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armaxdougwig: yeah15:39
kevinbentondougwig: that's why i said "make the db update a compare and swap"15:39
armaxthat would need to happen in a transaction15:39
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amotokiarmax: yeah.. or it may be a signal we need to investigate more.15:39
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armaxamotoki: I think for the specific need the issue reported15:39
armaxit’s doable to update on a clear field15:39
dougwigi'd be more inclined to introduce a port-claim type api than to try to fix rest.15:39
armaxand prevent update on a prepolated field15:39
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armaxdougwig: that’s exactly my point15:40
amotokiarmax: yes exactly.15:40
kevinbentonthis is what the if-match header is for!15:40
kevinbentonconditional updates15:40
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* dougwig yells at the new-fangled headers to get off his lawn.15:41
armaxbug #151157415:42
openstackbug 1511574 in neutron "[RFE] Support cleanup of all resources associated with a given tenant with a single API call" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511574 - Assigned to John Davidge (john-davidge)15:42
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armaxwe approved this a while back15:42
kevinbentonhttps://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2616.txt (june 1999) :)15:42
dougwigso it's been hated for 16 years. :)15:43
armaxthe effort was predicated on the fact that we wanted to have a universal api that would allow the purging across the various projects15:43
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armaxkevinbenton, dougwig: please let’s take this religious row elsewhere15:43
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* dougwig behaves.15:43
armaxnow, the problem is: nova is not ever going to provide a purge(project-id) api15:43
armaxso we have an exception right there15:44
armaxamuller was a huge fan of the cross-project initiative15:44
dougwigwhat was their reasoning?15:44
armaxdougwig: read the bug :)15:44
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armaxdougwig: in a nutshell they don’t want to do orchestration anymore15:44
mesteryIMHO, if this isn't cross project, it almost seems half-assed15:44
mesteryBecause if resources in other projects are left dangling then it's less useful15:45
armaxmestery: that’s one way to put it15:45
dougwigi disagree.15:45
armaxmestery: that’s not what I meant15:45
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armaxos-purge does exactly that across all projects15:45
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mesteryThere you go15:46
armaxbut it does so by leveraging the existing API15:46
dougwigwe have several projects that leave you dangling in certain cases and all you can do is go to SQL to clean up the mess (let's go look at the nova instances and cinder volumes that I can NEVER remove, right now.). even a neutron only purge would have its use.15:46
mesterydougwig: I don't disagree15:46
armaxospurge should fix that for you15:46
mesteryBut I'm saying that this is a classic case of something which really needs to be solved at a cross-project level15:46
mesterySo we can alleviate the pain for operators across the projects15:47
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armaxthat’s what os-purge is for15:47
mesteryThere you go15:47
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mesteryThanks armax :)15:47
dougwigarmax: not if ospurge is just driving the existing api's. an internal purge can be a little more... brutal.15:47
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armaxthe sticking point is not so much that15:47
amullerdougwig: that's what we should be discussing15:47
dougwigbut whatever, i've given up on openstack deletes ever being sane.15:47
amullerwhat would be the diff of using the neutron API to drive tenant deletion vs. doing it internally15:47
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armaxit’s wether the the underlying API that implements the purging is a collection of many REST calls or a simpler call that takes care of it all15:48
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amullerif there's technical benefit to having a single call and using internals to drive the deletion, that's worth talking about15:48
kevinbentonunless the neutron purge API does things that we don't allow with normal deletes, i don't see the point15:48
mesteryamuller: ++15:48
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amullerkevinbenton: so that's the question...15:48
kevinbentonand if we don't allow something in a normal delete, wouldn't it be for a good reason?15:49
amotokisome neutron resources like default sg cannot be deleted in normal operations.15:49
kevinbentonamotoki: ah15:49
kevinbentongood point15:49
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armaxthe question is:15:50
armaxdo we want to proceed to provide a purge operation (whichever it may be implemented) regardless of what other projects do?15:50
armaxor do we want to stay aligned (which means no action for us?)15:50
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HenryGI say we should do it to get some love from operators15:51
armaxHenryG: they might still love os-purge15:51
amotokieven if there is some order of projects to be cleanup, purging can be done project by project. I like to have it even if other projects does not support it.15:51
armaxamuller: you were the one pushing harder for consistency15:51
HenryGthat's fine if we can make os-purge work well for neutron15:51
armaxwhat’s your take?15:52
armaxamotoki: again, that’s what os-purge does15:52
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armaxin other words, do we want to take over os-purge code and maintain it ourselves?15:52
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amullerI'm against adding an API for it, unless someone shows me a compelling technical reason. We can explore owning the code that ospurge would invoke instead of having it in ospurge repo and if that make sense, pushing other projects doing the same. That still means not exposing a new API for it.15:52
ihrachysamotoki: why not working on os-purge side with existing API, then consider optimizations if really requested? not sure folks care about multiple calls vs. single one that much.15:53
armaxand have os-purge simply calling the neutron client?15:53
dougwigos-purge sounds like a maintenance nightmare, if it does every project, out-of-tree.15:53
dougwigwill it keep up, i wonder?15:53
armaxdougwig: they use the clients15:53
amullerdougwig: it can make sense for each project to maintain code that ospurge would call15:53
dougwigarmax: i have a purge script for neutron, using the client. it is gross. it is maintenance prone. you have to track api changes, and do things in the right order, and sometimes repeat.15:53
amullerso when new API resources are added it's up to the project to update its tenant deletion code15:53
armaxso the latest consensus is: let’s take over os-purge code ourselves, let’s do client-side orchestration15:54
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armaxand ask os-purge to replace their code with ‘neutron <project-id>’15:54
armaxthat’s it15:55
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armaxno cross-project consensus effort ever15:55
armaxnot from us anyway15:55
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kevinbentonwhat about server-side stuff like default sg that isn't deleted via API?15:55
dougwigarmax: need some coffee?15:55
amullerkevinbenton: I'd argue that's a Neutron bug, same as HA networks weren't being deleted when the last HA for a tenant is deleted15:56
ihrachyskevinbenton: can we allow to delete them?15:56
amullerkevinbenton: if a resource creation creates another resource implicitly, it should also delete that resource15:56
kevinbentonamuller: i agree15:56
armaxkevinbenton: you can still delete that via the api15:56
armaxkevinbenton: can you not?15:56
dougwigi think we're pointing out that deletion is gross, client or no, and os-purge's goal of doing it all via native api is... ambitious. if that's the route folks want to go, i salute those folks. i would not want that job.15:57
armaxdougwig: you need a sugar pill instead15:57
armaxdougwig: here, eat a candy bar15:57
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armaxbug #151619515:57
openstackbug 1516195 in neutron "Push all object information in AMQP notifications" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151619515:57
dougwigi'll go sit in a corner and continue using unstack.sh as my bulk delete, since nothing else is reliable.15:57
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armaxlast time we talked we said we were going to review the spec to gather more info on the proposal15:58
armaxanyone willing to share?15:58
armaxdougwig: ah, so there’s something reliable then!15:58
dougwigi think this discussion is happening via gerrit.  (amqp)15:58
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kevinbentonnext topic :)15:59
armaxwe’re at time15:59
dougwigwhat a morning.15:59
armaxand it’s just started15:59
armaxI’ll capture the discussion on the bugs15:59
armaxmove some bugs around etc15:59
armaxthanks folks15:59
armaxkeep reviewing bugs offline, it’s your duty as driver16:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 16:00:10 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-12-15-15.01.html16:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-12-15-15.01.txt16:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-12-15-15.01.log.html16:00
amotokithanks, night16:00
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stevemarpoke for meeting: ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub, rderose, samleon, xek, MaxPC, tjcocozz17:59
stevemarhowdy everyone!17:59
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* stevemar high fives dolphm17:59
samueldmqhey o/17:59
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stevemarwe'll wait a minute or so to give folks time to join18:00
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stevemaralright, lets go!18:01
stevemar#startmeeting keystone18:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 18:01:20 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:01
stevemarthat's for joining everyone!18:01
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stevemarmeeting agenda is in it's usual spot: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:01
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henrynashsqueaks in late18:02
stevemarbefore we go down the agenda, i wanted to say that i intend to have a meeting next week. but i'll see how it goes, if i cancel, i'll send a notification on the mailing list18:02
bknudsonI'll be around next week18:03
bknudsonfestivus isn't until wed18:03
stevemarbknudson: you and i can chat during the meeting!18:03
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stevemarbasically, just keep an eye on the mailing list for meeting cancelations18:03
stevemar#topic Move oslo.policy to keystone18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Move oslo.policy to keystone (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
stevemarbknudson: the floor is yours18:04
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bknudsonso I wonder if oslo.polcy shouldn't be a keystone project18:04
bknudsonsince any time there's a change to it the oslo people are going to ask us to check it out anyways18:04
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bknudsonand I'm not sure that we would want oslo reviewers to approve specs for oslo.policy without us18:05
stevemarcurrently it's in the Oslo umbrella, not keystone http://governance.openstack.org/reference/projects/keystone.html vs http://governance.openstack.org/reference/projects/oslo.html18:05
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gyeewhat do you keystone project? like move the code over?18:06
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stevemarso, keystone core folks - what do you think? will you have the extra bandwidth to review oslo.policy as well?18:06
davechenif this should be in keystone, we shouldn't let it go at the begining.18:06
bknudsonso, if there aren't any objections here I'll post to the -dev mailing list18:06
gyeewhat does it mean a keystone project?18:06
stevemargyee: no, the code wouldn't move, nothing would be renamed18:06
dstanekbknudson: no objection from me18:06
bknudsonit means that when specs are proposed they're proposed to keystone rather than oslo18:06
stevemargyee: it means we're responsible for reviewing code and specs18:06
samueldmqwhat's the purpose of oslo? is it just to be an umbrella to any common code to 2+ openstck proejcts18:06
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gyeestevemar, k, no objection here18:07
jamielennoxcame late, but i though oslo.policy was already under keystone18:07
henrynashbknudson: none here, neither, guv18:07
stevemarjamielennox: negatory18:07
stevemarsamueldmq: correct, but this is about who reviews bugs/specs/patches18:07
jamielennoxok, it should be18:07
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stevemarcurrently it's a bit of a mix18:08
samueldmqstevemar: ah so I am 100% for making it under keystone (for governance purposes, thus reviews, etc)18:08
stevemardolphm: ?18:08
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stevemarlight crowd today18:08
stevemarbknudson: seems like there are no objections, please post to ML and create a governance patch18:09
bknudsonI'll post to the mailing list so they'll have a chance to oppose18:09
gyeetoo many holidays to celebrate around this time18:09
lhchengthought it was already under keystone, makes sense to move it.18:09
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dolphm(no objections here)18:09
stevemarnext topic18:09
stevemar#topic Deprecate auth plugins and session code in keystoneclient18:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Deprecate auth plugins and session code in keystoneclient (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:09
bknudsonif there's an alternative that works then let's deprecate18:10
stevemarksa has been out for a while now, what are folks' views?18:10
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stevemarbknudson: just making sure folks think ksa is fully baked enough18:10
gyeedo it! eliminate confusion if nothing else18:10
jamielennoxi think it's baked, lots of things have started to use it18:10
raildogyee: ++18:10
stevemarthats some enthusiastic support18:11
gyeelast I checked the code were insync18:11
stevemarany volunteers to do the deprecations?18:11
jamielennoxi'll start putting up deprecation warnings if everyone is ok and do a transition doc in ksa18:11
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davechenso jamielennox is the volunteer :)18:11
stevemarjamielennox: that would be sauce that is awesome, awesomesauce if you will18:11
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gyeejamielennox, I don't think the code are insync18:11
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jamielennoxgyee: what's missing?18:12
gyeeI found there was a patch missing in fixtures a couple of days back18:12
gyeethere may be more18:12
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jamielennoxgyee: i'd be interested to know what it was, at this point there is defintely stuff available in ksa that is not in ksc18:13
jamielennoxthat should be really easy to port as nothing major changed in that code18:13
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stevemaron a minor side note - we also stripped middleware out of keystoneclient :)18:14
gyeejamielennox, k, unless you want to do a code audit, we'll sync one patch at a time18:14
stevemarso next release of keystoneclient won't have middleware in it at all18:14
bknudsonwhen's the next release?18:14
stevemarbknudson: TBD18:14
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stevemari did a search with hound (http://codesearch.openstack.org/) to find projects that are still affected, there were 5 or so, but minor ones that haven't had a successful build in months :(18:15
jamielennoxgyee: for anyone that's migrating we can also just wait to see them file bugs, we won't remove ksc support that fast the can't just keep using it18:15
stevemartry searching for: "from keystoneclient.middleware import auth_token"18:15
gyeejamielennox, ++18:16
bknudsonwhen we deprecate things do we need to go through all the other projects and change their code?18:16
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stevemarbknudson: no, hopefully not18:16
bknudsonnot sure how we're supposed to ever remove stuff if other projects aren't updating based on deprecation warnings18:17
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stevemarbknudson: i did this because there were only 4 or so18:17
stevemarTBH, i'd be surprised if the patches ever merge, these projects seem dead18:17
dstanekit would be nice if the gate failed on deprecation warnings after some amount of time after they started appearing18:17
samueldmqdstanek: ++18:17
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bknudsonthere's also a pendingdeprecation warnings18:18
stevemarbknudson: but it's definitely not our responsibility18:18
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gyeestevemar, yeah, we said the same thing about v3 too18:18
stevemar#action jamielennox to deprecate all the things in keystoneclient (auth plugins and session code)18:19
gyeeit wasn't supposed to be our responsibility :)18:19
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stevemargyee: apples and oranges, one is a lot of work18:19
stevemaranywho, we're going off the rails18:20
stevemarnext topic18:20
stevemar#topic Stable driver interfaces18:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Stable driver interfaces (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:20
stevemarthe stable ABI stuff has started to come up more often in reviews18:20
dstaneki'm working on documentation to address the open questions18:21
stevemarthanks dstanek18:21
stevemarso background... whenever we change a function of a manager class, we need to create a new version of that driver18:21
dstanekfor example, i'm updating based on the discussions of https://gist.github.com/dstanek/756337141e5e0066ebce18:21
bknudsonit's when we change the driver interface18:21
bknudsonnot the manager18:21
stevemarbknudson: thanks for the clarification18:22
dstanekbknudson: right18:22
stevemarhere's an example: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/247805/18:22
dstaneki'm in the middle of creating new versions of *all* the drivers so that i can document the process18:23
stevemarand currently theres a stable driver interface for every backend (resource, assignment, federation, credentual)18:23
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stevemardstanek: okay, that was my next question18:23
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bknudsonmight as well create the new versions because then we can get the testing in place... then revert if there weren't any changes.18:23
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dstanekthe question that keeps coming up is whether or not to *always* create a new version for a release18:23
stevemarif someone wanted to go ahead and create a new version for all drivers, right at the beginning of the release18:23
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stevemardstanek: i think we should18:24
dstanekstevemar: i'm doing that now for mitaka base on what i have been directing henrynash to do18:24
stevemargyee: it would be really weird if we release keystone v9 with role driver at v9 and federation at v818:24
stevemardstanek: fantastic18:24
dstanekgyee: so that it's easy to know that if you run mitaka we support v9 and v818:24
jamielennoxstevemar: it's only weird because we started at v918:24
dstanekgyee: not v9/v8 of assignment, v10/v9 or identity, etc.18:25
samueldmqI think it would be consistent to have vX drivers for all backends, rather than vX vY vZ in a single release of keystone18:25
jamielennoxisn't that anti the point of stable interfaces18:25
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jamielennoxif they haven't changed in a release i don't want them to jump version numbers18:25
henrynashthe flip side is we will be, by definition, causing custom driver writers to update their driver (at laeast to specify a version) every coupld of releases18:25
samueldmqhenrynash: hmm, good point18:26
stevemari feel like henrynash and jamielennox share a brain18:26
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jamielennoxscary in here18:26
dstanekhenrynash: my feeling is that it's only once a year18:26
henrynashworse here18:26
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henrynashdtsanek: which is what it would be if we support teh ABI to N-118:27
stevemari don't know, mixing up version numbers feels silly18:27
henrynash(seperate question…should it be N-1 or N-2)18:27
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dstaneki'm looking at it more move v9 of the keystone drivers, but i can see the other side18:27
stevemarbut yeah, mostly cause we started at 8 when keystone was at 818:27
bknudsonsince we'll know if the interface changed or not in the previous release we can support more versions back for a driver18:27
gyeeit's the version for the driver interface, not a keystone release18:27
jamielennoxso why didn't we call it v2? there's no need to tie it to keystone major versions18:27
dstanekhenrynash: in the draft doc i'm saying that we'll support N, support + deprecate N-1 and delete N-218:28
topolo/ just back from my dept holiday lunch....18:28
dstanekbknudson: true18:28
samueldmqbknudson: good idea18:28
henrynashdstanek: and my question is whether that breaks the standard depreaction rules we are signing up to18:28
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stevemartopol: welcome!18:28
dstanekhenrynash: don't we deprecated for one whole release and delete in the next?18:29
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* topol thanks for not adding the sarcastic glad you could join us... :-)18:29
henrynashi just don’t see why we need to tie the versions together (across idenityt, resource etc.)….why should they not float free18:29
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dstanekgyee: so you're more for having a mapping in the docs that says what versions are supported for what subsystems?18:30
bknudsontopol: that's because we don't want coal in the stockings18:30
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dstanekhenrynash: easier to know what versions are supported18:30
gyeedstanek, who's using those interfaces? the 3rd party driver providers18:30
dstanekgyee: yes and us18:30
henrynashdtsanek: that, I grant you18:30
dstanekso Mitaka supports Mitaka drivers and Liberty driver18:31
gyeedstanek, yes, and what is the version for?18:31
gyeeindicating compatibility18:31
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jamielennoxwe don't need to bump version numbers to handle deprecations, we can still do the standard 2 releases18:31
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jamielennoxanyone who is doing this is looking at the code, not docs, they'll see what is required18:31
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* jamielennox is not advocating for no/less docs18:32
bknudsonwe don't document the interface well enough to develop based on the interface anyways18:32
dstanekjamielennox: that's what we are hoping to avoid in the future18:32
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dstanekbknudson: yet...18:32
dstaneki think that is one of the long term goals here18:32
samueldmqif nothing changes, make v10 inherit from v9, and keep v9 as default (without deprecating yet) ? so they might want to update it or not ?18:32
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dstaneksamueldmq: right, that's what i think bknudson was hinting at earlier18:33
henrynashsamuedlmq: but then you might have 5 versions live until we actually change something18:33
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dstanekso like i said i'm fine either way. it just seems easier if it was clear what versions were supported18:34
bknudsonit might become very difficult to maintain the old test codebase, just due to changes in other libraries.18:34
samueldmqhenrynash: isn't that okay ? one may want to update it or not, that basically means supporting it for longer if it doesnt change18:34
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samueldmqlike bknudson said early (thanks dstanek for the heads up)18:34
bknudsonwe're not really supporting anything longer, it just happens to continue to work.18:34
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samueldmqbknudson: agreed18:35
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stevemarwe don't have to agree on something now18:36
stevemarwe can discuss it in dstanek's eventual doc patch18:36
gyeesounds good18:36
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dstanekstevemar: i'll just keep my stuff the way it is18:36
stevemarjust wanted to bring it to everyone's attention18:36
bknudsonI vote for adding the new versions now and putting the testing in place.18:36
henrynashi guess….so when it did change, as  customer driver writer, I might update form v8 to v1218:36
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bknudsonthat way when someone proposes code that breaks the interface we'll know about it18:36
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bknudsonhenrynash: yes, you might go from V8 to V12.18:37
stevemarhenrynash: sounds right18:37
samueldmqbknudson: without deprecating the "old" driver which haven't been effectively updated, right?18:37
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bknudsonwe always deprecate the old driver.18:37
dstanekbknudson: ++18:37
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henrynashSo I certianly prefer that than forcing custom driver writers to update tehor code for the sake of a version number change18:37
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davechenso, the question is if i did some change about the driver interface, what should do about the stable interface?18:38
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dstanekdavechen: you mean the N-1 version?18:38
henrynashdavechen: so dstanek is documenting this...18:38
bknudsondavechen: you need to update hthe adapter so the old version still works.18:38
samueldmqI think not deprecating what haven't changed would be better, because we will have  new version; but not necessarily forcing them to update their drivers for the sake of a version (as henrynash said)18:38
davechendstanek: yes.18:38
dstanekdavechen: you provide an adapter class https://gist.github.com/dstanek/756337141e5e0066ebce18:38
bknudsonsamueldmq: you might be right. we can think about it some more18:39
davechensound good, will check out the doc.18:39
dstaneksamueldmq: deprecations won't force and update (single character change in code), but encourage it18:39
samueldmqbknudson: cool, so perhaps we can all discuss in dstanek's patch for the docs, as stevemar said18:39
dstaneksamueldmq: i was hoping to be able to automate this process at the beginning of each cycle18:40
samueldmqdstanek: what if the driver remains 2+ releases without an update?18:40
stevemar#action dstanek to toss up a doc patch about stable interfaces18:40
stevemardstanek: ++++++++++++++++++++++18:40
henrynashdavechecn: and here’s an example: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/242513/18:40
samueldmqdstanek: they will need to update for the sake of the ersion number18:40
stevemardstanek: i would love that18:40
dstaneksamueldmq: yep. a side effect of making understanding the version easier18:40
samueldmqdstanek: I'd be glad to see that code generation :)18:40
stevemaralright, let's give davechen some time18:40
davechenhenrynash: thanks, i need this example to update my patch.18:40
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dstaneksamueldmq: if you can't s/V9/V10/ in about a year then you have already lost18:41
stevemaralright - topic change18:41
stevemar#topic Hornor shema validation everywhere18:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Hornor shema validation everywhere (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:41
bknudsonI'm still on windows 9518:41
stevemardavechen: go ahead18:41
stevemarbknudson: smart move18:41
davechenthis is the last chance i join in the meeting in san antonio18:41
davecheni just want to do something around schema validation.18:42
samueldmqdstanek: that's a good point, let's keep that option in mind too18:42
davechenbasically, it haven't done for all extensions18:42
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davechenand there was a patch to enable schema valdiation for v2 api18:42
stevemardavechen: so v3 core stuff has schema validation18:42
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davechenis that necessary to do this for v2 api as well?18:42
stevemarbut v2 APIs and things that were 'extensions' don't18:43
bknudsondoing input validation is on the IBM secure coding guidelines, so I'd like to see this done.18:43
davechenstevemar: yes, but extension is cores right now.18:43
stevemardavechen: it's all wishlist items IMO18:43
bknudsonI don't think we should bother doing it for v218:43
stevemardavechen: i'd be happy to review it18:43
davechenokay, what do you folks thinks about v2?18:43
davechenwhy not bknudson?18:44
dolphmfinishing it for v3 should be first priority18:44
samueldmqbknudson: ++ I'd like to see them for extensions (on core now)18:44
bknudsonwe should deprecate v2 and get rid of it18:44
dstanekyes, we need to validate all the things!18:44
davechendolphm: ++18:44
stevemardavechen: bknudson: if it's not a lot of work to do it for v2, then you can do it. but finishing it for v3 extensions is higher priority18:44
dstanekdavechen: i say no to v2 since we have said not sure use it because if it's existing security issues18:44
davechenif i have bandwidth, i will also pick up something about v218:44
dstaneks/not sure/not to/18:44
davechendstanek: okay.18:45
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davechenbut what's the security issue?18:45
dolphmdavechen: focus on v3 first; the value will be much longer lived there18:45
stevemardstanek: i'm OK with v2 only because we have a ton of existing bugs about validation, and routinely get them once a month18:45
davechendstanek: ^18:45
stevemardolphm: ++18:45
dolphmstevemar: ++18:45
stevemardavechen: definitely v3 first :)18:45
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bknudsonthe existing v2 validation bugs we just punt on because we're not enhancing v2.18:46
dstanekstevemar: is there a timeline for rewriting v2 to actually use v3 under the hood? that would make it a non-issue18:46
davecheni think i have enough champions18:46
stevemardstanek: no timeline yet, but since we deprecated v2.0, it should be added to the timeline18:46
davechenbknudson: there was a bug here for V2 API18:47
stevemar(deprecate v2.0 patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/251530/)18:47
samueldmqdstanek: stevemar ++ so that means removing all v2 specific manager/backend logic18:47
dstanekdavechen: one big issue is tokens in urls18:47
dolphmPST /v2.0/tokens (auth) would be top priority within the confines of v218:47
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stevemarsamueldmq: yep18:48
bknudsonvalidation on POST /v2.0/tokens I'd be happy with18:48
stevemarsamueldmq: the controller would just point to something in v318:48
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samueldmqstevemar: nice, isn't that something easy to do ?18:48
dstanekit would be nice if that could then piggy back in the v3 validation18:48
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stevemarsamueldmq: haven't looked into it yet!18:48
dstaneksamueldmq: i would doubt it18:49
gyeedstanek, how, v2 auth payload is different from v318:49
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stevemardstanek: the requests may be a different format though18:49
stevemarwhat gyee said18:49
dstaneksamueldmq: if it were then we wouldn't have needed different code for the business logic18:49
davechenstevemar: so you decide to deprecate v2 api, and the v2 api will gone within 2 releases?18:49
bknudsonif you get an error back from v3 validation it's going to be confusing if you're using v2.018:49
stevemardstanek: v2.0 is special and gets 4 releases18:49
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dstanekdavechen: no, much longer18:50
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stevemarone more topic on the agenda btw18:50
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davechenyes, it mine18:50
samueldmqdstanek: nice, it might be worth it to give it a try18:50
stevemardavechen's again18:50
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stevemar#topic Fully support attributes filtering18:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Fully support attributes filtering (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:50
stevemardavechen: go ahead sir18:50
davechensince it might need update stable inteface as you mentioned18:51
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davechenwe need support more attribute filter in keystone.18:51
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dstanekdavechen: yes it will require interface updates18:51
davechenwe missed some API, and i wanna to fix all these up.18:51
bknudsonok, I guess we can't make any improvements anymore due to stable interface.18:51
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gyeearen't we passing hints into the drivers?18:52
bknudsonI'm fine with adding more filter options.18:52
davechenbknudson: so, stable interface should change18:52
dstanekbknudson: are you declaring keystone to be done?18:52
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gyeedon't think hints are versioned18:52
dstanekdavechen: the currently developed interface should change18:52
davechengyee: yes, we need support more api18:52
gyeedavechen, more APIs or more hints?18:53
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davechenmore apis, gyee18:53
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dstanekgyee: not everything takes hints18:53
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dstanekdavechen: is there a question about this?18:54
davechendstanek: we need do this since osc use some of them but it's currently not supported by server18:54
gyeeI thought all lookup APIs takes hints18:54
gyeeneed to 2x check18:54
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davechenis there any need for a backlog spec?18:54
bknudsonthis will need a spec change since it changes the REST api18:54
davechendstanek: this is my question acutally.18:54
dstanekdavechen: yes, what bknudson said18:55
davechenbknudson: sure, i will post one18:55
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stevemardavechen: cool, target the spec to backlog for now18:55
gyeeso we are talking two different things18:55
davechenso, hope we can move forward18:55
gyee1) api support more filtering18:55
gyee2) drivers understand these new filters18:55
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davechenstevemar: what's the policy for backlog spec?18:55
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samueldmqdavechen: just submit against /backlog in keystone-specs18:56
dolphmapi docs are the important bit on the -specs side18:56
davechengyee: yes, thanks sir18:56
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davechensamueldmq: i know that, but we can target in M or defer to next release?18:56
stevemardavechen: propose them to backlog first, if you want to re-target for mitaka send a note to the mailing list asking for an exemption, since we're past feature freeze18:56
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dstanekgyee: yes, the patch does both18:56
stevemarerr spec freeze18:56
samueldmqdolphm: ++ we don't need a full specifitaion about introducing filters (it's trivial)18:57
davechenstevvemar: this is what i am worried.18:57
gyeedstanek, sure, will review the spec18:57
davechensound good.18:57
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davechenwho is stevvemar? :)18:57
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stevemardavechen: if anyone wants something to land in mitaka, that is not already here: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/#identity-program-specifications they need to send a note to the mailing list asking for spec exemption and find 2 champions willing to review18:58
stevemarthanks for coming everyone18:58
henrynashdavechen: stevvemar is the dark side version of our esteemed leader18:58
davechenstevemar: got it, thanks sir, I will try anyway.18:58
stevemarcan we actually end early and not go into infra meeting time?!?18:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:58
bknudsonforce awakens18:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 18:58:57 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-12-15-18.01.html18:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-12-15-18.01.txt18:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-12-15-18.01.log.html18:59
stevemarpleia2: fungi: i did it! i ended a minute before!18:59
pleia2thanks stevemar o/18:59
anteayastevemar: yay18:59
stevemarfor once! :D18:59
AJaegercongrats, stevemar !18:59
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fungithanks stevemar!19:00
fungiinfra team, assemble!19:01
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* dougwig lurks19:01
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fungijeblair: mordred: nibalizer: ruagair: around?19:03
* ruagair grunbles about not enough sleep.19:03
ruagairI am hear fungi :-)19:03
ruagairBearing good news.19:03
fungii saw19:03
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fungiwell, let's get started19:03
fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 19:03:38 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
fungiunlike last week, we have a very _light_ agenda, so we can take our time19:03
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fungi#topic Announcements19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
fungi#info Reminder: Gerrit 2.11 upgrade is tomorrow (Wednesday, December 16), starting at 17:00 UTC.19:04
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/081037.html19:04
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-12-08-19.00.html19:05
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fungi#info DONE: jhesketh finalize infra-cloud sprint planning details on the infra ml19:05
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2015-December/003554.html19:05
pleia2thanks jhesketh19:05
fungi#info DONE: fungi get gerrit maintenance included in thingee's dev digest19:05
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/082077.html19:05
jheskethpleia2: thanks to you too19:05
anteayayes nicely communicataed jhesketh19:05
fungi#info DONE: nibalizer send follow-up gerrit maintenance reminder19:06
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fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/082247.html19:06
fungi#info DONE: anteaya plan an infra virtual sprint for knowledge transfer and holiday festivity, friday, december 18th19:06
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Infra_.22holiday_party.22_knowledge_transfer_virtual_sprint19:06
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-holiday-party-201519:06
fungiall action items completed!19:06
fungi#topic Specs approval19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
fungi#info APPROVED: Complete the reviewable release automation work19:07
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/complete-reviewable-release-automation.html19:07
fungithere are no new specs on the proposed list for this week19:07
fungiat least not according to our agenda19:07
fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Gerrit 2.11 Upgrade19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Gerrit 2.11 Upgrade (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
fungizaro: are we still in good shape for tomorrow?19:07
nibalizerit sounds liket here will be a spec omming in the near term to host limesurvey19:08
zaro#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/gerrit-2.11-upgrade19:08
zaroyes, i believe so. nothing really new to report.19:08
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fungiany remaining blocking reviews we need to hurry and finish?19:08
zaroi just pushed up a change to make cleanup a little easier, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/258088/19:08
fungiand everything we identified to test on review-dev is in place?19:08
clarkbI think we flushed out most of the review queue over the last few days19:08
zaronothing blockin the upgrade though.19:08
fungithat was my impression as well19:09
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/25808819:09
fungianybody hanging around with questions about the upgrade maintenance coming tomorrow?19:09
clarkbfor the actual process do we have volunteers?19:09
zarothe javamelody plugin doesn't get automatically updated, but that's minor thing we can fix later19:09
clarkbI have to pop out early afternoon but can be around in the morning19:09
* ruagair is happy to help however he can.19:10
zaroDavidO says he'll attend the party19:10
jeblairi will be here19:10
anteayaI'll be here, not sure what I can do besides answer questions in channel19:10
fungii'll be around the entire time and am happy to drive root-requiring tasks especially19:10
pleia2I'll be around as well19:10
anteayaI'm expected a flood of is gerrit down?19:10
pleia2anteaya: yeah19:10
fungianteaya: yes, running interference in channel is probably helpful19:10
anteayaso I can work on those19:10
* anteaya will run interference19:10
fungido we want to use our incident channel to do actual maintenance coordination, so as to keep clear of the noise in our usual channel?19:11
AJaegeranteaya: just say every five minutes "Yes, gerrit is down, see #topic" in a friendly way ;)19:11
anteayazaro: yay DavidO will be here!19:11
clarkbsounds like we are well staffed19:11
pleia2fungi: I think that makes sense19:11
jeblairfungi: maybe a good idea?  i sort of suspect we'll end up there anyway eventually :)19:11
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anteayaAJaeger: only stays friendly the first few times19:11
fungijeblair: oh, so pessimistic!19:11
anteayaAJaeger: you want to tag team? :)19:11
anteayayeah -incident is fine with me19:12
anteayaI'll stay in -infra and monitor19:12
jeblairfungi: i have no idea how you typo'd "real" that way19:12
AJaegeranteaya: I might come an hour later, 17:00 UTC is dinner time here...19:12
anteayaAJaeger: happy to have your support whenever the time is right for you19:12
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AJaegeranteaya: ok, I try to be there...19:13
fungi#agreed Gerrit upgrade maintenance coordination will happen in #openstack-infra-incident to keep the channel clear and improve efficacy19:13
anteayaAJaeger: thanks, I'm grateful19:13
* olaph can help run interference as well19:13
anteayaolaph: wonderful, thank you olaph19:14
fungia reminder, for those who want to follow along but forget to /join the channel initially, it _is_ logged19:14
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-infra-incident/19:14
AJaegerthanks, fungi!19:14
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fungianything else we need to decide or questions we need to answer about the gerrit upgrade before we move on to the next topic?19:14
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anteayaI'm good19:15
jeblairfungi: did you get your question answered about the project rename fixes?19:15
anteayahey mordred19:15
fungijeblair: yep, zaro worked the commands needed into the maintenance plan19:15
anteayafungi: I think they are in zaro db script19:15
fungiand tested them as well19:15
mordredThe wifi, it is bad in far southern Quebec19:15
jeblairah.  fix_project_rename()19:16
fungiwith an updated sanitized dump of our production database19:16
anteayamordred: ah but the wine is good19:16
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts: maniphest migration19:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: maniphest migration (Meeting topic: infra)"19:16
* jeblair watches morderd attempt to use wine instead of wifi to participate in the meeting19:16
fungiruagair said something in the agenda about a dev instance19:16
fungijeblair: i feel like i've seen that happen before too19:17
clarkbruagair: I saw a chnange go by last night that implied mod auth openid mostly just works (tm) ?19:17
ruagairYep, so I've sorted openID: People can start playing with a dev instance here: http://os03.mcwhirter.io/19:17
clarkbruagair: if so neat!19:17
ruagairI'm currently generating unique usernames with a random string.19:17
fungi#link http://os03.mcwhirter.io/19:17
jeblairi have logged in!19:17
ruagairWe'll need to consider if this is th ebes approach.19:18
yolandaruagair, cool19:18
clarkbruagair: for openstackid I think we can use the email addr and treat it as unique19:18
fungiit's certainly _a_ way forward, so you're not blocked on the missing usernames question19:18
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pleia2woo, I'm 39oywejia82h1zzspxr8bsva19:18
clarkbI want to say that is true of lp too19:18
anteayaI can sign in19:18
ruagairThere's still more migration issues to be sorted but we need to start playing with it and considering what changes we need to make.19:18
pleia2but I can log in :)19:18
jeblairwhat's the usernames question?19:18
ruagairPhab does not like that clarkb :-)19:18
clarkbruagair: huh interesting19:18
ruagairThat's where I started but it barfs.19:19
jeblair(i am uludwh7i7wh5lqi5ed6epeq.)19:19
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fungijeblair: storyboard did not have usernames, phabricator wants usernames, lp does not by default provide usernames19:19
pleia2so you get your ip id token19:19
fungiopenstackid also does not have usernames19:19
ruagairbut you can change you uisername, so we could leave that up to people or scrape launchpad.19:19
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clarkbruagair: is that something maybe we can patch?19:19
jeblairwhere can you change your username?19:19
clarkbliek is it just mad that there is an @ inthe username?19:19
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fungii'd love to see openstackid grow a preferred username19:20
pleia2jeblair: "change username" :)19:20
pleia2jeblair: on the right hand side of the profile screen19:20
jeblairpleia2: still not seeing it :(19:20
fungii should say, an option to fill in a preferred username19:20
clarkbfungi: I just want to avoid adding on features to that service until it is standard compliant19:20
ruagairPerhaps clarkb. I've not looked that deeply yet.19:20
pleia2jeblair: click on the head at the top right of the screen19:20
jeblairoh, it's a profile setting, not a setting setting.19:20
clarkbfungi: since right now it doesn't really do openid :(19:20
pleia2jeblair: yep!19:20
jeblairpleia2: i clicked on the wrench.19:20
pleia2ah :)19:20
ruagairYes, the '@' is th eissue clarkb19:20
fungiclarkb: true, though we'll likely want usernames for wiki, gerrit, et cetera19:20
pleia2fungi: good point19:21
Zarado users have to be logged in to see tasks etc? (or is that just because this instance demos the auth?)19:21
persiaFor purposes of unique, could one just s/@/a/ to create an identifying string (assuming we don't need to convert the other way)?19:21
clarkbyup and email addrs change so are a bad unique identifier19:21
jeblairis change username an admin priv?19:21
ruagairand using LP because I can't use openstackID at present.19:21
jeblairbecause the dialog is sort of written that way.19:21
mordredruagair: we can request a username from launchpad in the openid request, no?19:21
anteayapersia: I don't see change username19:22
ruagairIt may be jeblair19:22
fungii mean, phab is the first thing we've tried to use it with that really wants a username, but other things we want to switch to openstackid will also need that19:22
anteayapleia2: ^^19:22
anteayapersia: sorry wrong number, meant pleia219:22
ruagairI hope so mordred. I will be looking into that.19:22
clarkbmordred: I would have to go and reread the spec but yes you can request differnet attributes19:22
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ruagairThe random number was merely just to unbock usage.19:22
pleia2anteaya: if you click on the head graphic on the top right it'll take you to a profile screen, profile screen has change username option in the menu on the right19:22
mordredruagair: ++19:22
clarkband mod auth openid lets you map an arbitrary attribute onto the username it passes to the app19:22
jeblairjenkins requests username from lp19:23
anteayapleia2: not for me it doesn't19:23
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clarkbjeblair: should be possible then19:23
ruagairSo far everyone who has been able to change names are admins, so that's clearly going to be an issue.19:23
jeblairpleia2, ruagair: anteaya is not an administrator19:23
anteayapleia2: I have "Edit Profile", "Edit Profile Picture", "Flag For Later"19:23
ruagairThanks clarkb. I'll follow up on that.19:24
jeblairso i think that confirms the earlier supposition change username is only for admins19:24
* AJaeger is neither an admin19:24
jeblairanteaya is http://os03.mcwhirter.io/p/2ctl83esnfk2k41dmkf2vb7/19:24
fungiruagair: well, at any rate, it's a start, and has helped us to define one need without blocking on it19:24
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anteayaI am indeed19:24
pleia2ruagair: nice work19:24
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ruagairYep. That instance will remain up and stable so people can prod it and I'll be doing dev elsewhere.19:24
fungithanks ruagair!19:25
jeblairdo we need someone to ask for a username field in openstackid?19:25
anteayaruagair: thanks19:25
ruagairI'm also going to need a spirit guide make getting this work into puppet./19:25
ruagairand an English coach.19:25
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clarkbruagair: opening a random bug that should have comments I don't see comments just the title and header stuff19:25
clarkbnot sure if that is known problem with migration19:25
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yolandaruagair, i can give you a hand with puppet19:25
ruagairI've not used Manufest yet clarkb, so I'll look into.19:25
ruagairThanksd yolanda.19:26
fungijeblair: yeah, and i'd prefer it not be me to ask since i've been dragging my heels on working through the openstackid platform upgrade so already probably on their list of not so favorite people19:26
* fungi makes a note to up the priority on that19:26
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clarkbfungi: in fairness we semi stalled out on npm related things19:26
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clarkbbecause npm19:26
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fungimaybe if i hurry up and get openstackid.org onto ubuntu trusty then i can turn that around into a feature request for usernames ;)19:27
ruagairI would rather use openstackid too.19:27
pabelangerfungi: what is needed to do that?19:28
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ruagairI see review migrating comments clarkb. thanks for the heads up.19:28
fungipabelanger: the puppet-openstackid module needs to become smarter about installing the right things depending on whether it's precise or trusty19:28
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pabelangerfungi: I might be able to help with that19:29
fungiso that we can confirm an openstackid-dev.openstack.org upgrade to trusty while leaving openstackid.org on precise temporarily19:29
fungipabelanger: great! get up with me after the meeting and i can point you at the current reviews19:29
pabelangerfungi: ack19:29
jeblairi bet the request 'add a username to openstackid' is going to explode in complexity -- because what's the point of at authn system storing a username and _not_ using it as the login identifier...19:29
jeblair(probably needs to accept both username and email as identifiers at least)19:30
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fungiyeah, i can see it being nontrivial19:30
clarkbactually hrm19:30
jeblairany other field is just data, but this touches a lot19:30
clarkbI think it may already do first.lastname19:30
clarkbas your id19:30
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mordredyah - but that's going to be wonky when we migrate gerrit19:30
mordredbecause my user id on gerrit is "mordred"19:30
mordrednot "monty.taylor"19:30
mordred(actually, my id is 2 - my name is mordred)19:31
fungibut, for example, mediawiki uses it to decide what to display for your edit citations and where your userpage lives, gerrit uses it to bootstrap non-openid authentication (rest, ssh)19:31
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fungiso they're not really using it as part of the openid authentication, just requesting it as additional details about the account they're creating for you19:31
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mordredI'd love to be able to claim a username in openstackid, as well as tell it what my IRC nick is19:31
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pleia2mordred: ++19:31
fungihowever it does need to be unique, or else you introduce new vulnerabilities in the consuming services19:31
mordredso that we could conceivably write bots that query irc nick from openstaciid so that they can ping people by them19:32
mordredbut now I'm getting greedy19:32
clarkbbut the existing thing may work for ruagir once it does acutal openid19:32
pleia2one of the benefits of launchpad is the irc nick field, I use it a lot when looking for people19:32
mordredclarkb: ++19:32
clarkbsince it doesn't have an @ and is unique19:32
anteayaI see many troubles if we don't allow for that, irc nick as username that is19:32
zaromaybe wikimedia can help with migration? since they've probably already done it.19:32
fungipleia2: and also ssh keys and pgp keys19:32
pleia2fungi: yeah19:32
clarkbthough I bet individuals could have a fullname of clark@ boylan19:32
clarkbbecause lol19:32
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fungiokay, seems we've burned down this topic19:34
ruagairDo you have an manifest task id for th etask that should have comments, clarkb? That would be useful to track.19:34
ruagairThanks everyone :-)19:34
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clarkbruagair: http://os03.mcwhirter.io/T101062119:34
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fungizaro: mediawiki didn't migrate from storyboard to maniphest, they migrated from gerrit to phabricator19:35
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ruagairGot clarkb. Thanks.19:36
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fungizaro: assuming that's the migration you're talking about19:36
* persia is reminded of a discussion last year about a daemon that used nickserv to get an authentication countertoken from the data fields19:36
ruagairI suspect the LP -> Maniphest will be much more graceful.19:36
fungi#topic Holiday meeting schedule: Are we meeting on December 22nd and 29th? (pleia2)19:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Holiday meeting schedule: Are we meeting on December 22nd and 29th? (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:37
mordredfungi: they did neither thing - they're still using gerrit - but iirc, they use LDAP auth on the backend or something19:37
fungimordred: oh, even more interesting19:37
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pleia2I'll be around both days, but a lot of teams have already rolled up the carpets for meetings in 201519:37
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fungii'm around both dates as well, and happy to chair a meeting if people want/see benefit in having one19:37
* ruagair is around for the 22nd19:37
anteayaI expect I'll be around those days, fine chatting in here if we have items, fine not chatting in here if we don't19:37
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* zaro is around both days19:38
fungihow about we plan for informal meetings that may be entirely open discussion and/or end pretty quickly19:38
pabelangerLikely around too19:38
pleia2fungi: should I still send out meeting announcements?19:38
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jeblairi probably won't be around for the 29 but will for 22.19:38
fungipleia2: entirely optional, but if you feel compelled to send announcements then that would still be perfectly accurate19:39
pleia2ok, great19:39
fungiif someone throws something on the agenda we can discuss, but we should also plan for the possibility of not having many people around to reach consensus on important opics at short notice19:39
fungitopics too19:39
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mordredI'm just going to say things to the empty channel and assume silence means assent19:40
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fungimordred: don't you do that anyway19:40
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anteayahe is having trouble finding an empty channel these days19:40
mordredthat's why I'm certain that I'll do it then too19:40
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clarkbboth days wfm19:41
nibalizeri think i can make the 22nd and I can make the 29th19:42
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pleia2cool, sounds like we'll have pretty well populated meetings then19:42
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fungiwell then, without further ado, i give you...19:43
fungi#topic Open discussion19:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:43
anteayaso much time today19:43
fungidon't all talk at once19:43
ianwi can give a quick update on f2319:43
greghaynesI have a bit on builders I'd like to mention, too19:44
greghaynesbut I will wait for ianw19:44
* fungi was kidding, feel free to all talk at once if you want19:44
ianwglean is almost working, i think all reviews there are processed19:44
ianwthere is one more dib workaround for a systemd feature -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/257173/19:44
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ianwbut after that, i'm fairly sure they'll come up with networking ...19:45
ianwthat's in.  basically, in progress and close19:45
mordredfungi: I'm on bad network - but I can try an update on puppet apply19:45
greghaynesThe builders are cleaned up after the last round of reviews and I think they are ready to go. I would like to get some plan started on when/how we can do that...19:45
clarkbianw: have you been able to test the networking config in json thing?19:45
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clarkbianw: if not thats fine, just curious19:45
mordredfungi: there are two issues blocking moving fowrad - one is getting the inventory to use hostnames where possible instead of uuids so that our logs are readable19:45
ianwclarkb: not live on rax, but faking it19:46
fungigreghaynes: meaning the nodepool image build workers?19:46
greghaynesfungi: yes19:46
mordredfungi: I've gotten that change landed upstream ansible, now working on getting occ and shade support patches landed19:46
greghaynesfor context19:46
mordredso that should be done soon19:46
pabelangerSo, apache::vhost::custom landed in puppetlabs-apache today: https://github.com/puppetlabs/puppetlabs-apache/commit/b9f630a60811694916ecf8758103d4bca2ac6038 I've already gone ahead an update puppet-nodepool to use it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205596/19:46
fungimordred: oh cool--so it was outside bugs/missing features we were stuck on?19:46
pabelangerso, we can start the process of porting to puppetlabs-apache19:46
mordredthe second is a mismatch in ansible and puppet groups - and for that I'm going to write a simple thing to exapand a yaml group expressions into generated static inventory files19:46
mordredfungi: yah - well, 'outside' except I'm the author of that too :)19:47
mordredfungi: but yes19:47
fungiyou're on the outside looking out19:47
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clarkbgreghaynes: I may be able to do it tuesday ( a week from today)19:47
clarkbwith reviews happening again between now and then19:47
mordredanywho - we're CLOSE - byt I still need to get the group expanded written and tested before we can finish throwing the switch19:47
clarkbs/to do it/to help deploy it/19:47
greghaynesclarkb: That works for me if it is earlier in the PST day19:48
greghaynesDoesn't have to be crazy early, I just am occupied that evening19:48
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fungii've picked the bindep stuff back up off the floor. working through getting a functional test of our fallback list which project-config and bindep can both gate on, implementation of that necessitated moving forward with solidifying the bindep use in our jobs a bit so some of that has already landed19:48
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jesusaurusI've split log_processor into its own project, and the new python project boilerplate could use some review: https://review.openstack.org/24886819:49
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fungiafter fallback tests are running on relevant platforms (possibly voting for our required platforms and non-voting for optional platforms) i've got a couple alterations to bindep i want to finish so i can tag a 1.0.0 release19:49
yolandafrom infra cloud, not much progress on our side this week. We've been fixing several problems with bifrost and dhcp, and some problem on glean and hostnames.19:50
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fungiyolanda: that sounds like progress to me. saw at least one related change fly by in channel earlier and some discussion19:50
pabelangerfungi: do you have any updates about the trystack.org SSL certs? or what needs to be done to help move that along?19:51
pabelangerhave some people ping me about that internally19:51
yolandafungi, well yes, slow but solid progress :)19:52
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jeblairi'm making progress on the fairly radical config changes for zuulv319:53
anteayajeblair: yay19:53
* mordred hands jeblair a cookie19:53
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fungipabelanger: i meant to look into replacing our certs with an account at startssl.com which seems like the least expensive way out, though increasing complexity of the openstack_project::static class is another option19:53
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fungipabelanger: the current maintainers of the trystack.org server aren't keen on maintaining a redirect for a little while?19:54
mordredyolanda: oh - I might need your help to track down an issue with an occ patch and bifrost19:54
jeblairi think if someone wanted to start on the nodepool side of things, that can probably proceed in parallel, but it's not super urgent19:54
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yolandamordred sure19:54
yolandawhat's going on?19:54
mordredjeblair: I'd like to hack on the nodepool side of things19:54
ruagairWhat about Let's Encrypt certs fungi?19:54
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* ruagair has been using those for a few weeks, quite happily.19:54
fungiruagair: that discussion would take a lot more than 5 minutes19:55
ruagairFair enough :-)19:55
jeblairmordred: ooh19:55
mordredyolanda: this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/254399/ causes things to blow up for TheJulia and I haven't gotten a chance to diagnose yet19:55
jeblairfungi: can you tell us why it would take longer than 5 minutes in less than 5 minutes? ;)19:55
clarkbcan we get image builders in before we add any more featuers to nodepool?19:55
fungiruagair: philosophical objections to letsencrypt aside, i haven't seen much discussion yet about how to handle the automated cert rotation19:55
mordredjeblair: but I cannot start thinking about it in earnest until next week19:55
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jeblairclarkb: yeah, i think we all agree image builders go in first19:55
mordredclarkb: I'd like to get image builders in and the shade patch landed, actually19:56
pleia2it's also technically still in beta, which I'm not sure we want to rely upon for our production infrastructure19:56
clarkbok, just making sure we don't add more rebase churn to it19:56
mordredbecause juggling two sets of cloud interaction codebase is not awesome19:56
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mordredclarkb: ++19:56
pabelangerfungi: Ya, I've been trying to figure out a good approach for that too.  Don't like doing crontab19:56
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yolandamordred, i can take a look19:56
ruagairYes, that's an additional complication to be considered fungi.19:56
fungiruagair: especially how to make it robust against failure to update/rotate19:57
mordredyolanda: thanks! the last error she showed was unrelated, so I'm worried something else is broken in master of occ that we're not testing right that will break bifrost if we release19:57
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mordredbut I just don't know19:57
fungiwe don't want to rely on cert replacement automation which could cause critical services to grow new failure modes19:57
ruagairWher's your sense of adventure ;-)19:58
fungileft it in my other pants19:58
ruagairThat's a safe place.19:58
yolandamordred, yep, region doesn't seem to be related19:59
fungiokay, well, we're out of time now--thanks everyone!19:59
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 19:59:59 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-12-15-19.03.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-12-15-19.03.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-12-15-19.03.log.html20:00
fungiall yours, tc!20:00
ttxAnyone here for the TC meeting ?20:00
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* edleafe hides in the back20:00
* dougwig lurks20:00
ttxlifeless, mordred, markmcclain, jaypipes, dhellmann: around ?20:00
ttxdhellmann is probably off20:01
* jroll lurking20:01
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ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 20:01:19 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxHi everyone!20:01
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* flaper87 bows20:01
ttxBeen away traveling all day, just catching up, so please bear with me if I'm not very up to date on todays reviews20:01
ttxOur agenda for today:20:01
annegentlettx: well, welcome back!20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:02
ttx#topic Resolution about Image Uploads and Linux Kernels20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Resolution about Image Uploads and Linux Kernels (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/256438/20:02
ttxLooks like the proposal, whic hwas mostly consensual last week, met some resistance today20:02
ttxand/or could be split in several steps20:03
flaper87it's gotten comments from folks that weren't in the meeting last week20:03
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flaper87I guess it's mostly around the wording not the resolution itself20:03
ttxflaper87: well...20:03
ttxjaypipes disagrees with the image upload capability, which is pretty central to mordred's proposal20:03
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flaper87oh, mmh, I haven't read jay's comment20:04
flaper87damnit, one can never be up-to-date20:04
ttxI understand what jay means20:04
* annegentle reads too20:04
jeblairyes, without being able to hang the proposal on image uploads we're back to specifying what kind of POSIX-like thing is there for tempest to use.  i think that's a mess.20:04
ttx*but* I think it's fine as a requirement to call your cloud a nopenstack cloud to require image upload, frankly20:04
ttxit's an interoperability question20:05
annegentleYeah I think the confusion I had around import/upload was better stated by jay as public/private and security/performance stuff20:05
jeblairttx: i think "nopenstack" is what you call it if you _don't_ allow uploads, but yeah. ;)20:05
ttxIf some private clouds want to not allow image uploads, so be it, they are just not "openstack clouds, they are a private cloud built with openstack20:05
edleafelol 'nopenstack'20:05
flaper87jeblair: ++20:05
sdaguettx, right exactly, they are not openstack20:06
mordredclouds without image upload are useless20:06
mesteryI think this nopenstack thing could have legs ... :)20:06
sdaguepeople can build anything they want with the openstack code20:06
mesteryBut yes, what ttx said makes sense20:06
ttxwhich is quite ok, for an openstack private cloud20:06
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flaper87I'm happy to split this resolution so we can have dedicated discussions on some of these topics but, I'm of the idea an openstack cloud MUST allow for images to be uploaded20:06
mordredI'm not20:06
sdaguettx: you need to stop using that word openstack20:06
mordredthis is key20:06
mordredand all of the current clouds allow this20:06
sdagueit is ok, for foo private cloud20:06
mordredthe "no image uploads" is a theory20:06
mordredthat is upheld by nobody20:06
sdagueit is not ok for openstack private cloud20:07
ttxsdague: I don't think it means what you think it means ?20:07
annegentlewhere is jay?20:07
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flaper87mordred: ++20:07
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* ttx can't resist Princess Bride references20:07
cdentannegentle: he's probably on a plane back from the ukraine20:07
jeblairmordred: are you sure your thing about bare-metal is right?  do you really mean to say every openstack cloud must provide both vms and bare metal resources running on user-uploaded images?20:07
angdraugafaik Jay is in Europe this week, so probably asleep :(20:07
jrolljeblair: VMs *or* bare metal20:07
fungiit seems like this still leaves things open for defining that openstack compute clouds must do virtualization (allowing at least some specific platforms to be virtualized) and use uploaded images, while other board-defined trademarks could cover things like openstack container clouds20:07
flaper87jeblair: IIRC, it's an or20:07
mordredjeblair: no, I do not mean that20:07
fungier, yeah so virtualization or run directly on the hardware20:08
mordredjeblair: what I mean is that your cloud must allow the abiliyt to boot a user supplied kernel, and it can do that on vms or bare metal20:08
jrolljeblair: mordred: the bare metal thing is interesting, bare metal can't necessarily run arbitrary images20:08
jrolllinux, yes, arbitrary no20:08
mordredit can20:08
jeblairjroll, mordred: right; i think i understand the intent is that ether one is sufficient, i'm not sure that's an unambiguous reading of it though.  ;)20:08
mordredit TOTALLY can20:08
dougwigmordred: jaypipes sent you a reply on the ML: "Monty, just because I'm not there to argue with you in person doesn't mean you shouldn't channel your inner leakypipes and argue with yourself on the IRC channel."20:08
dtroyerpresumably a user who knows he is using baremtal knows _how_ to use it20:08
mordredjeblair: k. we should fix tht20:08
ttxFor example, I don't think any distro would cripple their "openstack cloud distribution" by not allowing image uploads by users at all20:08
mordreddougwig: hahaha20:08
mordredttx: ++20:09
jrollmordred: I missed "given matching processor architecture", ignore me20:09
ttxYou can disable that ability in a specific deployment, but you shouldn't expect that to be interoperable.20:09
mordredjroll: yay!20:09
sdaguejroll: right, you have to vaguely know how to build an image20:09
ttxwhich is all that defcore is about20:09
sdaguelike it not being just a lolcats jpeg20:09
mordredttx: +100 - exactly20:09
mordredI think we can all come up with corner cases where a person can try a thing and that thing can not work20:09
lifelesso/ sorry I'm late20:09
jrollyep, that's fair20:09
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annegentleso, do we believe the only interop is in virt?20:09
lifelesschild had an accident yesterday, had to do forms @ preschool20:09
mordredbut I think thathe general idea that a user who is reasonably competent must not be prevented from running a working image that they have built20:09
mordredis key20:09
ttxWe are not removing the ability to restrict image upload. We are just saying that the interoperable set is the one that allows you to bring your own kernel20:10
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annegentlelifeless: hope it's "all's well that ends well"20:10
flaper87ttx: yes!20:10
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ttxbecause otherwise it just can't be interoperable.20:10
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lifelessannegentle: yeah, couple of scratches on eye lens, will heal fine in all probability20:10
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sdaguettx: right, because we need to think of this from the OpenStack application writer perspective20:11
ttxand I'll +2 the proposal as is for this reason.20:11
mordredannegentle: I do not personally believe there is any resaon to restrict to vms and not include bare metal20:11
mordredas I belive OpenStack is in the business of giving me machines, be they physical or virtual20:11
flaper87also, to that, we can add all the discussions we've had in the last 3 (or 4) months with defcore, glance, API-WG to improve image upload to allow for clouds to use it publicly20:11
annegentlesdague: but the app writers already sidestep virt20:11
flaper87well, that despite the fact that most clouds do already20:11
sdagueannegentle: sorry, in what context?20:11
anteayalifeless: done that myself 3 times, all healed fine20:11
annegentlesdague: containers20:11
mordredannegentle: many app writers sidestep virt20:12
mordredannegentle: but not all20:12
sdagueannegentle: so you are saying all openstack applications are containers?20:12
mordredthere are a specific class of app writers who NEED openstack and CANNOT use containers20:12
annegentlesdague: I mean, I've had to re-re-read any virt v containers discussions to understand20:12
mordredthe specific thing those writers share is the need to have some amount of control over the kernel of the OIS they are running20:12
annegentlewhether containers "are" virtualization or not. They're not.20:12
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sdagueannegentle: ok, I feel like this went a little orthoginal20:13
jeblairalso people who are writing an openstack "app" that is a container deployment technology *need* virt.20:13
annegentlemordred: and I absolutely want to have a "user first" hat on like you20:13
mordredfull virt and bare metal are not needed by many people writing 12 factor apps - and that's fine20:13
mordredbut we are not and never have been a good home for those people20:13
annegentlesdague: ok, fair 'nough20:13
mordredwe ARE an awesome place for people to run kubernetes controle planes20:13
sdaguebecause I feel like the point is what are the guaruntees we give applications folks, so they don't have to special case every cloud20:13
sdagueand if they are writing to the nova / glance API20:14
mordredand to run docker swarm control planes20:14
sdaguethere is no interface to deploy a container there20:14
annegentlesdague: right, so app devs can sidestep those APIs20:14
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annegentlemordred: and yes, that's all cool20:14
sdagueannegentle: right, and we are trying to give them guaruntees so they don't all have to ignore all our APIs all the time :)20:15
ttxOK, so does anyone besides Jay have objections to the current proposal ?20:15
annegentlemordred: hence my ask you don't bury the lede :)20:15
mordredanyd many do - and that's fine for them20:15
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lifelessI think we need to separate product capabilities vs configured options20:15
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lifelessa *product* called an 'openstack cloud' - be it public, or an installer-style-thing, must IMO allow image uploads20:15
ttxlifeless: the question defcore asked was about deployed capabilities20:16
mordredlifeless: ++20:16
lifelessa private cloud based on that product being able to limit who can upload images - fine IMO20:16
sdaguettx: I'm fine with what's up there20:16
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fungiyeah, i think the point that a lot of users have "worked around" openstack's lack of consistent interoperability by adding their own normalization layer (at their own expense) isn't really an argument for giving up making that less necessary20:16
lifelessjay's point seems to target not un-certifying private clouds, which makes sense to me20:16
sdaguefungi: ++20:17
cdentthere's a huge legal gap between (product capability and trademark definition) and (deployed stuff)20:17
flaper87I don't have objections with what's up for review, tbh.20:17
ttxlifeless: but it can't be called "an openstack cloud", it may be called "a cloud deployed from an openstack distribution", I guess20:17
sdagueor it can be called a cloud20:17
mesteryI don't have objections with what's there either20:17
lifelessttx: we don't certify private clouds today, we certify the product used to install them20:17
sdaguewithout the word openstack near it20:17
lifelessttx: AIUI it anyhow20:17
ttxlifeless: then all is fine20:17
ttx(if your understanding is correct)20:18
sdaguebut if we want an ecosystem of off the shelf software (open or commercial) that interacts with OpenStack clouds20:18
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sdaguewe need to set that SDK expectation correctly, otherwise it's all tears20:18
lifelesssdague: then those products need to be given appropriate acls on the cloud20:18
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ttxmaybe mordred could sparkle some magic dust on the proposal to make it less worrisome for private cloud vendors20:18
mordredso - I can try doing that20:18
lifelesssdague: thats no different to needing a certain size quota, or particular image flavours20:18
lifelesssdague: is it?20:19
sdaguettx: why is it worrysome?20:19
mordredbut I'm not sure that anything in here talks about that at all20:19
ttxwhile keeping the guts of it, which is interoperability of things we call "openstack clouds"20:19
dougwigif it's a private cloud, will anyone know it's being called an openstack cloud?  tree in a forest and all.  it's private.  :)20:19
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mordredthis is talking about clouds20:19
mordrednot about cloud constructoin kits20:19
mordredif someone wants to claim that a running cloud is an OpenStack cloud, it needs to meet criteria20:19
mordredor else it's not behaving well20:19
fungimake it more clear, i guess, that the proposal is specific to public clouds and openstack software distributions seeking interoperability certification20:19
sdaguedougwig: it will be the first time someone in IT gets Veritas for OpenStack20:19
sdaguetries to plug it in20:19
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ttxsdague: I think /some/ private cloud vendors are worried that they won't be able to use the openstack trademark because their product is used to deploy clouds that do not allow user image uploads20:20
sdagueand Foobar cloud they were sold doesn't have any of the interfaces for it20:20
mordredttx: which ones?20:20
dougwigsdague: oh, you just gave me flashbacks and nightmares in one word.20:20
mordredttx: like, who is doing that?20:20
ttxmordred: jay's employer, maybe20:20
mordredttx: because I'm getting tired of theoretical people with theoretical problems20:20
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mordredttx: I believe fuel installs clouds that can upload images20:20
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lifelesssdague: so yes, that matters - but as long as the product the company bought /can/ do it, is it an issue?20:20
ttxsure, and I think the concern is not warranted20:21
edleafettx: if their product doesn't allow it at all, then it's not openstack. If it allows uploads to be turned off, well, that's the deployer's choice20:21
fungias long as their distribution allows you to build a cloud that allows image uploads, the fact that it also allows you to build ones which don't shouldn't be cause for concern20:21
ttxedleafe: ++20:21
mordrededleafe: ++20:21
flaper87mordred: ++ on the theoritical people with theoretical problems issue20:21
lifelessedleafe: except when its a public cloud... ?20:21
mordredlifeless: when it's a public cloud it MUST allow image uploads20:21
ttxmaybe adding a short sentence that says what edleafe just said would alleviate their concern20:21
mordredbecause then the user of the public cloud is not a private user who had a relationship with the deployment choices, nor should they be20:21
ttxbut then , again, I'm fine with approving this as-is, I think it's clear enough20:22
sdaguesure, though it does seem like in such an environment there should be a checkbox of "ensure compatibility with OpenStack"20:22
mordredttx: I'm fine adding one - or doing a follow up that says such a thing20:22
edleafelifeless: if a public cloud turns off uploads, then they are not openstack.20:22
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ttxMy understanding being that all the other TC members are fine with it20:22
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mordredsdague: yah - because we're talking hopefully people who _want_ to verify that peope who write things "for openstack" can run those things on their cloud20:22
mordredsdague: so those people would not be able to assert such a thing if the cloud in question did not allow image uploads20:23
annegentlesdague: yeah and that'll enable that ecosystem too20:23
flaper87tbh, the discussion is getting confusing at this point. Let's just say that clouds that want to me stamped as OpenStack must allow image uploads, regarless they are public or private. We don't need to care about the mechanics of how/why/when a private cloud would require such certification/stamp20:23
mordredflaper87: +10020:23
mordredyou can ALWAYS use the software to do any number of other crazy things20:23
ttxmordred: without Jay around, i don't think we can make a lot more progress continuing the discussion in-meeting. I propose we move to the review -- I'll approve it whenever it passes the majority vote20:23
mordredI mean, the combinations are limitless20:23
lifelessedleafe: right. *we* are agreed. But we're writing prose folk will try to lawyer-at-us.20:24
lifelessedleafe: so I'd like there to be no things that can be taken out of context.20:24
ttxand I propose we move on20:24
edleafeflaper87: agreed. You can add the ability to turn it off, but it has to be an *option*.20:24
sdaguettx: ++20:24
ttxunless someone wants to discuss another very specific point20:24
flaper87I'm happy to comment on the review and reply to Jay's comments with the summary or even my own20:24
mordredthe review conversation has been very useful so far20:24
flaper87edleafe: right20:24
lifelessI'll be replying on the review after the meeting20:24
ttxa bit late, but then that was posted late too20:24
mordredI also haven't read jay's comments yet - so I'll poke those too20:24
ttxOK, moving on20:24
ttx#topic Spin off stable team as separate team20:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Spin off stable team as separate team (Meeting topic: tc)"20:25
annegentlethanks mordred20:25
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/25515920:25
ttxSo this is the final stage of spinning-out the stable maintenance team into its own project team20:25
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ttxWe had elections over the last weeks and the team has an initial PTL, mriedem20:25
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ttxI'll approve this now, since it has more than enough votes20:25
flaper87mriedem congrats, wherever you are20:25
ttx#topic Redefine Release Management team mission20:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Redefine Release Management team mission (Meeting topic: tc)"20:26
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/25537920:26
ttxSo... back in the day the "Release Cycle Management" team was a frankenteam of things I happened to lead20:26
ttxi.e. release management, stable branch maintenance and vulnerability management20:26
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ttxNow that the last two are separated (one under Security, the other under its own team) it's time to reword the mission20:26
ttxstill short of a couple of votes20:26
ttxalright, we are in20:27
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ttxFWIW I'll follow the team at least during the mitaka cycle to see it's off wit ha good start20:27
ttx#topic Rewording Freezer mission20:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Rewording Freezer mission (Meeting topic: tc)"20:28
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/25423920:28
ttxNon-trivial team mission changes need to be formally approved by the TC20:28
ttxThis one sounds pretty simple20:28
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ttxmostly shortening it, not changing it20:28
annegentlettx: I could just revise their patch, think they'll mind?20:28
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flaper87annegentle: I don't think Fausto would mind if yo udo20:29
flaper87I think he's a bit on/off these days20:29
dtroyerannegentle: I'd appreciate an edit pass over my suggestion ;)20:29
ttxannegentle: go for it20:29
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annegentledtroyer: yep! Ok, on it20:29
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ttxthe TC puts its famous iron fist on the table and overwrite the PTL proposed change20:30
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annegentledtroyer: I'll also start it with To verb20:30
ttxlet's come back to that once Anne is done20:30
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ttx#topic Cross-project spec rubberstamp: Chronicles of a DLM20:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project spec rubberstamp: Chronicles of a DLM (Meeting topic: tc)"20:30
ttxthingee: you there ?20:31
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/209661/20:31
thingeettx: hi20:31
ttxthingee: care to quickly introduce this one ?20:31
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ttxlooks pretty consensual to me20:31
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ttxmissing a few +2s before we can rubberstamp it20:32
thingeeat the summit we came to consensus we wanted to use tooz but have a refernece implementation for gate testing20:32
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thingeesince then devstack supports bring up zookeeper as a first pass on a ref implementation20:32
ttx(annegentle: let me know when done)20:32
thingeethere are also other drivers coming into tooz for distributed lock management20:32
thingeeetcd https://review.openstack.org/#/c/246879/20:33
annegentledone diggity ttx20:33
thingeeconsul https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245362/20:33
ttxyay ^20:33
thingeeI think the future looks bright20:33
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flaper87w0000h00000! Gotta love the options20:33
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thingeewe are following a similar model to MQ's where there has to be two maintainers I believe behind a driver.20:33
mordredthingee: we're still planning on deprecating the less featureful toox drivers, yeah?20:33
mordredthingee: ++20:33
sdagueflaper87: I have to say, I mostly hate options here20:34
flaper87(like redis)20:34
mordredthingee: like, the ones that 'work' but don't actually work20:34
mordredlike redis20:34
lifelessmordred: call me maybe....20:34
sdaguebecause it just means segmenting our operator community into islands of knowledge that can't help each other20:34
mordredsdague: I also hate the options, but I think the current set of curated options are not the worst thing that has ever happened to us20:34
flaper87sdague: it depends. If we're talking about the whole DLM discussion, then yes. I love the fact that tooz now has support for other consensus services20:34
thingeemordred: that's a good question. I need to follow up with julien on that20:34
ttxsdague: I like having one non-Java option. I agree that options are not necessarily a good thing20:34
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mordredsdague: they seemed segmented already20:35
lifelesssdague: if the operator community were willing to converge, we could do so really very easily20:35
thingeesdague: I also agree, unfortunately majority wanted options. I think the ref implementation is going to be what kvm is today in openstack nova20:35
mordredthere was at least one vocal never-consul  and one vocal never-zk20:35
ttxI would have settled with two (the best option and the non-Java option)20:35
mordredttx: ++20:35
annegentlesdague: oo good point, but it's a natural progression20:35
thingeesdague: also we had good operator presence and this is what they wanted.20:35
annegentlemore hammers, more nails, more finesse as we go20:36
sdaguethingee: so be it20:36
ttxstill one vote short20:36
flaper87FWIW, we tried to not have options at the summit and the result after talking to OPs and based on the knowledge we had back then, we thought tooz + options was the probably the best thing in this case20:36
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sdaguewe also thought that qpid was a good idea20:36
* flaper87 remembers entering the room with his "I want just one solution" hat on20:36
ttxsdague: who did ?20:36
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thingeeflaper87: yeah even though I was moderating I was definitely leaning towards no options.20:36
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sdaguelots of people, options were important. Erlang is yucky.20:37
mordredsdague: for the record, I've never thought qpid was a good idea20:37
sdagueand, it turns out that superstition based on language, is silly20:37
sdaguethe important thing is software has been out there and used under load for a long time20:37
* flaper87 still doesn't think rabbitmq is the best technology to use there BUT that's a whole different discussion20:37
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flaper87anyway, fwiw, in this case, we also listened to OPs20:37
sdaguebut, I'll let it go now20:37
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mordredflaper87: for the record, I've never thought rabbitmq was a good idea20:38
thingeesdague, ttx lets bring back the burrow mq20:38
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* flaper87 hugs mordred20:38
ttxhmm, missing one vote... jeblair, russellb, lifeless ?20:38
ttxthingee: about that, I'm wondering if we should not burrow cue20:38
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ttxsince it looks a bit dead20:39
* thingee takes note20:39
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lifelessttx: I need to do a final close read but its very likely to get my +120:39
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ttxoh well, let's go back to anne in the mean time20:39
ttx#topic Rewording Freezer mission (again)20:40
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*** openstack changes topic to "Rewording Freezer mission (again) (Meeting topic: tc)"20:40
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/25423920:40
ttxshould we require fausto's +1 on it ?20:41
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ttxflaper87: or do you vouch for his support of it ?20:41
flaper87ttx: I'd prefer to wait for his +120:41
ttxLet's pile up our +2s still20:41
flaper87I can follow-up with him20:42
ttxok, please add your +2 to this one and i'll approve it as soon as Fausto +1s it20:42
ttx#topic Cross-project spec rubberstamp: Chronicles of a DLM20:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project spec rubberstamp: Chronicles of a DLM (Meeting topic: tc)"20:42
ttxback on track20:43
ttxit has 7+ votes now20:43
ttxi'll rubberstamp it20:43
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ttx#topic Cross-project spec rubberstamp: Add clouds.yaml support specification20:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project spec rubberstamp: Add clouds.yaml support specification (Meeting topic: tc)"20:43
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/23671220:43
ttxlast-minute -1 posted20:43
annegentlelast minute!20:44
annegentleharumph :)20:44
* ttx looks sideways to Anne20:44
annegentlethat was yesterday morning!20:44
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ttxwell, this has been posted 2 monts ago20:44
annegentleyeah I'm late to the party20:44
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ttxIt was until then a disturbing contest of approvals20:44
sdagueannegentle: what's your main objection?20:45
sdagueI just see the one comment20:45
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annegentlesdague: since going through that project ID exercise I realized just how many new projects we have20:45
ttxthingee: should we put it back to drawing board to address Anne's concern before going back to rubberstamp stage ?20:45
annegentlethat may or may not already have a client plan20:45
sdagueannegentle: ok, so it seems sensible to give them guidance here, right?20:46
annegentlethingee: would it help if I posted all the names of the clients in that sort of state?20:46
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thingeettx: whoops sorry back scroll was stuck20:46
ttxthat happens20:46
mordredannegentle: I can totally add some guidance for new projects20:47
annegentlemordred: thingee at the core of my question is this: are there different work items for say a handful of projects that are pretty new?20:47
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mordredannegentle: it depends on if they cargo culted python-novaclient or not20:48
mordred(that's a common way to start a client)20:48
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mordredannegentle: but if you could point me towards a few new projects, I can look and write up a thing on what newer projects should do20:48
ttxok, let's put it back on the drawing board for at least one week then, sounds like a valuable thing to have20:48
mordredannegentle: for context, it took about 45 minutes for me to port python-magnumclient :)20:48
annegentleheh sorry, I'll get you a list20:48
mordredannegentle: thanks! happy to have it20:48
mordredone of my tasks for this cycle is making the patches for as many client projects as I can20:49
* mordred exects to rage code over chirstmas20:49
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ttxmordred: will the thing you will write be part of the spec or separate ? Should we just postpone approval on this review ?20:50
* flaper87 thinks mordred will rewrite openstack in rust20:50
mordredttx: let's give it one week so that I can make sure20:50
lifelessmordred: you don't seem to have a lot of projects input - do you have consensus around this?20:50
ttx#topic Cross-project spec rubberstamp: Backwards compat for libraries and clients20:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project spec rubberstamp: Backwards compat for libraries and clients (Meeting topic: tc)"20:50
mordredttx: it's possible the list from anne could illuminate something missing20:50
* flaper87 knows mordred thinks flaper87 will do that someday20:50
ttxSo this was added by thingee way after I sent the agenda, so don't worry if you missed it20:50
annegentlemordred: it's there, 9 projects or so20:50
ttxI'm fine postponing it if we need more time to look at it. If it has 7 votes though we can fasttrack the rubberstamping20:51
mordredannegentle: aewsome. thanks!20:51
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thingeettx: sorry!20:51
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/22615720:51
thingeeyeah we can wait...I'll get better at posting things faster ;)20:51
ttxwe are 5 rubberstamp votes short20:51
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ttxand if you've not read it before, will be har dto swallow in the next 9 minutes20:52
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ttxso maybe let's plan to rubberstamp it next week and give everyone time to read the final version ?20:52
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annegentlelifeless: nice work there20:53
lifelessI'll upload a version today including the thing about having a tag for this20:53
lifelessno changes to the meat of it though20:53
lifelessannegentle: thanks!20:53
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thingeettx: thanks20:53
sdaguelifeless: so could you comment about how the oslo.middleware issue we just hit fouled here?20:53
ttx#action ttx to put "Backwards compat for libraries and clients" and "Add clouds.yaml support specification" back on the agenda next week. TC members to read and vote by then20:54
sdaguejust as we have a set of guidelines, and we had a fail, and it would be good to see where they intersected20:54
lifelesssdague: the namespace one ?20:54
sdaguelifeless: yep20:54
lifelesssdague: we did an API break while the API was still in use in deprecated form20:54
lifelesssdague: and we had no testing to catch it20:54
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sdagueso L3320:55
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lifelesssdague: the spec addresses both of those points: deprecate, stop using, stop *supporting*, then delete.20:55
sdagueit was semver signaled20:55
sdaguehowever, we aren't allowed to semver break any existing supported branches20:55
sdagueso maybe just make that point a little clearer20:55
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sdagueas it's mostly in the parens substatement20:55
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lifelesssdague: ack, can do.20:56
sdaguebut, yeh, seems solid20:56
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lifelesssdague: I'll break it into two points.20:56
sdaguelifeless: great20:56
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ttx#topic Open discussion20:57
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sdaguefrom what I see here, I think it's good, I can't project forward every detail off of it, but this seems like the a solid stab in the right direction20:57
ttxI can't help noticing the N naming poll is still not started20:57
annegentlesdague: ++20:57
* ttx tries not to look at mordred20:57
mordredoh. BLAST20:57
mordredthis afternoon20:57
sdaguettx he's not a medusa20:57
* mordred sucks20:57
* mordred waves his snake-hair at sdague and makes his eyes shine yellow20:58
ttxAnything else, anyone ?20:58
sdaguefyi, I'll not be here next week, starting christmas break this weekend20:58
jeblairsdague: what shiny yellow eyes you have20:58
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ttxAbout dead projects, I think we should remove kite, too20:58
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flaper87ttx: how are we monitoring those?20:59
ttxor at least remove it from projects.yaml, it can stay as a git repo if someone wants to take it over20:59
sdaguettx: +1 for removing kite20:59
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flaper87did you just happen to notice?20:59
flaper87or are we relying on stackalytics20:59
sdagueit was so dubious when it was kept in the first place20:59
ttxflaper87: was looking into a specific combination of tags20:59
flaper87ttx: gotcha20:59
annegentledo we need anything for comms before the disappearing act of 2015?20:59
ttxtype:service + release:independent20:59
ttxand uncovered cue and kite, then looked up stackalytics20:59
flaper87annegentle: I was hoping to have the resolution merged, that'd have been a good thing to communicate21:00
ttxannegentle: maybe wait next week ?21:00
ttxand.. we are out of time.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:00