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| dhellmann | ttx: o/ | 14:01 |
|---|---|---|
| dhellmann | #startmeeting releaseteam | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Feb 5 14:01:29 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam' | 14:01 |
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| dhellmann | our agenda is under R-9 on the etherpad | 14:01 |
| dhellmann | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-relmgt-plan | 14:01 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping: ttx, dims, lifeless | 14:02 |
| ttx | o/ | 14:02 |
| dhellmann | sorry I'm a bit tardy this morning | 14:02 |
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| dims | o/ | 14:02 |
| dhellmann | #topic old business (from R-11) | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "old business (from R-11) (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:03 | |
| dhellmann | #info dhellmann talk to monasca team about releases | 14:03 |
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| dhellmann | #link governance tag updates: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274884/ | 14:03 |
| dhellmann | #link releases repo updates: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274898/ (merged) | 14:03 |
| dhellmann | I think that's taken care of, once the governance change merges | 14:03 |
| dhellmann | oh, there was one other update to releases to add monasca-ceilometer | 14:03 |
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| dhellmann | #info dhellmann talk to mestery about networking-ovn, octavia, vmware-nsx | 14:04 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/272696/ | 14:04 |
| dhellmann | I don't think there was a releases repo change for that one | 14:04 |
| dhellmann | #info dhellmann change searchlight and aodh to cycle-with-intermediary | 14:05 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/271366 change aodh to cycle-with-milestones (merged) | 14:05 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/271369 change searchlight to cycle-with-milestones (merged) | 14:05 |
| dhellmann | #info dhellmann send email encouraging independent projects to record their releases in the releases repository | 14:05 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/084756.html | 14:05 |
| dhellmann | we've seen a few updates proposed, but I haven't done any sort of analysis of whether we're complete | 14:05 |
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| dhellmann | I think we said we'd always expect to have missing data, didn't we? | 14:06 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: ? | 14:07 |
| ttx | yeah | 14:07 |
| ttx | But we should have an easy way to sync it back | 14:07 |
| dhellmann | yeah, we have some scripts for importing the data but they try to work out the release cycle. we should make a note to fix one up for independent projects | 14:08 |
| ttx | although it's obviously manual, given how many erroneous tags are pushed | 14:08 |
| dhellmann | true | 14:08 |
| dhellmann | #info ttx to file the magnum fix today | 14:09 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/271318 (merged) | 14:09 |
| dhellmann | #info dhellmann file governance change to merge freezer deliverables for consistency | 14:09 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/271372 merge freezer deliverables (merged) | 14:09 |
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| dhellmann | #info dhellmann reorganize releases repository to clean up urls | 14:09 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/271550 rearrange content in preparation to move to new vhost (merged) | 14:09 |
| dhellmann | and we skipped our meeting last week | 14:09 |
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| dhellmann | did I miss anything for old business? | 14:10 |
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| ttx | nope | 14:10 |
| dhellmann | moving one then | 14:10 |
| dhellmann | #topic should we make pre-release collapsing the default behavior in reno? | 14:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "should we make pre-release collapsing the default behavior in reno? (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:10 | |
| dhellmann | this week I added the feature to reno to let it optionally collapse pre-releases into the final release, when that final release is available | 14:11 |
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| dhellmann | I left it off by default, which means turning it on everywhere will require editing rst files in the release notes builds | 14:11 |
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| dhellmann | I wonder if we should turn it on by default, instead, so we get the consistency we want? | 14:11 |
| dhellmann | we can have both flags, so projects can be specific | 14:12 |
| dhellmann | sorry, explicit | 14:12 |
| dhellmann | thoughts? | 14:12 |
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| ttx | hm | 14:13 |
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| ttx | I would say turn it on by default | 14:14 |
| dhellmann | that was where I was leaning | 14:14 |
| dims | what's the down side dhellmann? | 14:14 |
| dhellmann | dims : CD folks might want to know that something changed earlier in the cycle, rather than later | 14:15 |
| dims | dhellmann : sure, earlier the better | 14:15 |
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| dhellmann | well, the change would mean notes released in 0b1 would show up as part of the final release when you build the release notes | 14:16 |
| ttx | dhellmann: collapsing is what we always did | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that's why I thought the default should probably switch | 14:16 |
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| ttx | also not sure 3 milestones would really help CD | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'll put that on my list for next week | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | yeah, only for folks a few months behind master | 14:16 |
| ttx | they should extract the reno from what they use anyway | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | that's true | 14:16 |
| ttx | so training them not to would not be a good idea | 14:17 |
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| dhellmann | #agreed change reno default to collapse pre-releases into final releases | 14:17 |
| ttx | after all being able to generate notes at any point was a + for reno | 14:17 |
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| dhellmann | yep | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | next up... | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | #topic how do we want to handle locking down releases for libraries during the freeze period? | 14:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "how do we want to handle locking down releases for libraries during the freeze period? (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:18 | |
| dhellmann | we've said we would be "more strict" about late library releases this cycle | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | how will we implement that? go back to changing ACLs? | 14:18 |
| dims | dhellmann : releases not managed by us? | 14:19 |
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| dhellmann | dims : that's a good part of the question, yeah | 14:19 |
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| dhellmann | if we only apply the rule to projects we manage, it's easy | 14:19 |
| ttx | dims: I think what dhellmann wants is to avoid "accidental" extra releases | 14:19 |
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| ttx | We could set the acl to release branches like for liberty | 14:20 |
| dims | sounds like that worked fine last time | 14:20 |
| ttx | also otherwise it ends up on the stable team lap, which is not better | 14:20 |
| ttx | although, that's different acls | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | "set the acl to release branches"? | 14:21 |
| ttx | so... two things | 14:21 |
| dims | so when we do that, will teams have to go through us for "exceptions"? | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | dims : yeah | 14:21 |
| ttx | when you do the first release you cut a stable/mitaka branch | 14:21 |
| ttx | master continues on newton | 14:21 |
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| ttx | that stable/mitaka branch has acls set for approving changes to stable team | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | ah, so go ahead and create the stable branch for libraries and assume we'll use backports | 14:22 |
| ttx | and the PTL can still tag everywhere. | 14:22 |
| ttx | that's what happens if we do nothing | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | I didn't remember doing that immediately for liberty. Did we? | 14:22 |
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| ttx | What we did in the past is switching ACLs for stable/mitaka to be under our control instead of the stable teams | 14:23 |
| ttx | so changes can only land there if we approve them | 14:23 |
| ttx | although the -release groups also include the ptl | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | hmm, ok. I was less concerned about landing patches than releasing things. | 14:24 |
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| ttx | it doesn't prevent the tags | 14:24 |
| ttx | but then you wouldn't tag if there is nothing landed | 14:24 |
| dhellmann | true | 14:24 |
| ttx | or would you rather also freeze the newton releases ? | 14:24 |
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| dhellmann | we need to freeze all library releases, because service projects will have mitaka in their master branch for a few more weeks | 14:24 |
| ttx | OK, so options; | 14:25 |
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| dhellmann | we didn't unfreeze lib releases until after the stable branches were cut last time, right? | 14:25 |
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| ttx | option A: do nothing -- stable teams control what land in stable/mitaka release bracnehs, PTLs can still "accidentally" tag | 14:25 |
| ttx | option B: do what we did for kilo/liberty, switch the stable/mitaka ACL to us -- release team controls what lands in stable/mitaka release branches, PTLs can still "accidentally" tag | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | hmm | 14:27 |
| ttx | option C: do what we did in liberty + claim back tagging on libraries -- release team controls what lands in stable/mitaka release branches, PTLs can't accidentally release libs | 14:27 |
| ttx | I suspect what you wanted to discuss now is the B->C | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | we've split the stable and release duties this cycle | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | I think I want option D: claim back tagging on libraries and let the stable teams land patches | 14:28 |
| dhellmann | we have project-specific stable teams now, so we can distribute the review load to them | 14:28 |
| ttx | hmm, for libs yes | 14:28 |
| dhellmann | but prevent tagging of undesirable releases just during the freeze window | 14:28 |
| ttx | We would only switch approval ACLs on cycle-with-milestones projects | 14:29 |
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| ttx | so that those require $PROJECT-release approval post RC1 | 14:29 |
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| ttx | (which includes us/me but would likely be handled by release liaison there) | 14:29 |
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| dhellmann | I suppose since the ultimate goal of all of this is to avoid having releases inserted into the gate, we could also just stop approving changes to requirements | 14:29 |
| ttx | And we would only claim back tagging on libs | 14:29 |
| dhellmann | and leave the ACLs alone | 14:29 |
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| dims | dhellmann : there are jobs that are not constrained by g-r | 14:30 |
| dhellmann | because even for cycle-with-intermediary projects like oslo, we don't want new versions of libs introduced unless absolutely necessary | 14:30 |
| ttx | dhellmann: what dims said | 14:30 |
| dhellmann | dims : yeah, so that's not enough | 14:30 |
| dims | so option C | 14:31 |
| dhellmann | so we should *also* stop approving requirements changes, but we'd do that anyway | 14:31 |
| dims | right | 14:31 |
| ttx | dims: you actually need different things for libs and cycle-with-milestones projects | 14:31 |
| dims | stop approving releases and requirements in addition to the ACL | 14:31 |
| dims | ah i see | 14:31 |
| ttx | the ACL switch on patch approval is an artifact of the RC system, which only cycle-with-milestones uses | 14:31 |
| ttx | so let's forget about that for the moment | 14:32 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that's a separate issue, I think | 14:32 |
| ttx | The question is... should we actively prevent library tagging during the freeze | 14:32 |
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| dhellmann | I thought we would want to lock down *all* library releases | 14:32 |
| dhellmann | not just the ones we manage | 14:32 |
| dhellmann | so maybe we should start by addressing the scope question | 14:32 |
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| ttx | blocking requirements sounds like partial damage control | 14:32 |
| ttx | not really a solution | 14:33 |
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| ttx | we can either trust them and pray... or prevent it using ACLs | 14:33 |
| dhellmann | yeah, requirements freeze is part of the process anyway but doesn't yet protect us because we don't have full coverage for constraints | 14:33 |
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| dhellmann | at the end of liberty when we said we would be more strict, what caused that? did we have an issue? | 14:33 |
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| ttx | yeah, we had a number of python-*client late releases | 14:34 |
| dhellmann | right, I remember now | 14:34 |
| ttx | like the week before | 14:34 |
| dhellmann | ok, so let's limit the discussion to only libraries, then, and talk about whether it's *all* or *managed* projects that we'll block, because that has an implication on the solution | 14:34 |
| ttx | I think we could try what better communication of deadlines leads us to | 14:35 |
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| dhellmann | so only block releases for managed projects, and communicate more strongly that other projects are expected to not do releases? | 14:35 |
| ttx | arguably the liberty situation was partly due to miscommunication of deadlines | 14:35 |
| ttx | if /that/ fails we should ACL | 14:36 |
| ttx | but by then I expect we'll have all autmated | 14:36 |
| dhellmann | next cycle? I hope so. | 14:36 |
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| dhellmann | ok, I'll write up an email about the release freeze period | 14:36 |
| ttx | My point is.. last time it was partly our fault for not being clear enough. | 14:37 |
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| dhellmann | I know the start date, do we have an end date? | 14:37 |
| dhellmann | sure, I think we need to be more clear and explicit this time | 14:37 |
| ttx | let me check | 14:37 |
| dhellmann | http://docs.openstack.org/releases/mitaka/schedule.html | 14:37 |
| ttx | "requirements unfrozen" at R-2 | 14:38 |
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| dhellmann | ok, I'll add that to the schedule, too | 14:38 |
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| dhellmann | hmm, I don't see "requirements freeze" at all on the schedule; is that implied by something else? | 14:38 |
| ttx | see https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-relmgt-plan | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | ah | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'll add those dates to the published mitaka schedule today | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann add requirements freeze dates to mitaka calendar | 14:39 |
| ttx | dhellmann: start date is implied already | 14:40 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann announce library release freeze deadlines and thaw on ML | 14:40 |
| ttx | R-5: Final release for client libraries | 14:40 |
| dhellmann | ttx: Feb 26 | 14:40 |
| dhellmann | right | 14:40 |
| ttx | What's unclear is when the freeze ends | 14:40 |
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| ttx | not sure that's significant for the schedule though | 14:41 |
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| ttx | we could add a note on the explanation for " Final release for client libraries" | 14:42 |
| ttx | something like: "You can't release until the requirements freeze is lifted, generally at R-2" | 14:42 |
| dhellmann | I would like to thaw them when the stable branch for the requirements repo is created | 14:42 |
| ttx | might be better since we usually miss that deadline due to $fail | 14:42 |
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| dhellmann | since that branch makes it safe to start releasing into master test jobs again | 14:43 |
| ttx | N-2 is a target week, but we consistently missed it | 14:43 |
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| ttx | which is why it's in the plan but not the schedule | 14:43 |
| dhellmann | so rather than a date, maybe like you say, give the thing that is triggering the thaw | 14:44 |
| ttx | +1 | 14:44 |
| dhellmann | "R-2 at the earliest" | 14:44 |
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| dhellmann | meh, your phrasing is more optimistic :-) | 14:44 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'll draft that and run it past everyone before sending | 14:44 |
| ttx | right. Good for the email and the comments in the schedule, but I would leave it out of the schedule grid | 14:45 |
| dhellmann | right | 14:45 |
| dhellmann | ok, speaking of schedule grid... | 14:45 |
| ttx | heh | 14:45 |
| dhellmann | #topic starting to think about newton schedule | 14:45 |
| dhellmann | it would be good to be able to tell event planners what the dates are | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "starting to think about newton schedule (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:45 | |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/275911/ | 14:45 |
| dhellmann | ttx, you had some comments about the duration of milestones | 14:45 |
| ttx | We could work on that one now | 14:45 |
| dhellmann | I copied what we had this cycle, just as a place to start | 14:45 |
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| ttx | right, so the 5/7/6/5 map we used last time was mostly driven by the holiday season | 14:46 |
| ttx | i.e. use 7 weeks where we know we'll lose 1.5 week | 14:46 |
| dhellmann | right | 14:47 |
| ttx | it may or may not make sense to replicate it | 14:47 |
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| ttx | first thing to discuss would be the FF | 14:47 |
| ttx | Used to be R-6. do we think the R-5 week will be successful ? | 14:47 |
| ttx | should we wait until we are deep in it to make that call ? | 14:48 |
| ttx | (and only publish the dates we know of, like summit and release ? | 14:48 |
| dhellmann | that sounds wise | 14:48 |
| dhellmann | I started pulling it together to try to identify the n-1 milestone for the bug-squash folks | 14:48 |
| ttx | maybe we should just publish the things people can start building on | 14:48 |
| ttx | some things are already set in stone: | 14:49 |
| dhellmann | so split the patch up? | 14:49 |
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| ttx | design summit date, election schedule | 14:49 |
| ttx | The release date is 99% sure, given the position of the Barcelona summit | 14:49 |
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| ttx | I think we should publish that already | 14:50 |
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| dhellmann | ok, I'll split this up into "known dates" and "tentative dates" patches | 14:50 |
| ttx | the newton-1 milestone... depends a bit on the map, which depends on the FF position | 14:50 |
| dhellmann | do you expect it to be any earlier than r-18? | 14:51 |
| ttx | so I don't think we can decide that today... would prefer to have some idea of how well the 5-week thing is going | 14:51 |
| dhellmann | I could at least tell the bug-smash folks that as a likely earliest date | 14:51 |
| ttx | So one difference with the previous cycle is the distance to the previous release | 14:52 |
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| ttx | we have one more week pre-summit | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | hmm, yeah | 14:53 |
| ttx | (which should probably appear on the newton schedule btw) | 14:53 |
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| dhellmann | I should add the missing dates before and after the actual cycle | 14:53 |
| ttx | so we have a r-25 | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | righty | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | er, right :-) | 14:53 |
| ttx | By default I would go with a 5/7/7/5 map | 14:54 |
| ttx | i.e. or maybe 6/6/7/5 | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | that feels nicely balanced | 14:54 |
| ttx | so R-19 /R-18 for n1 | 14:55 |
| ttx | still need to crosscheck with holidays | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 14:55 |
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| ttx | so yeah, a bit too many unknowns to set the milestones now | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | I'll start by adding the extra week and the known fixed dates, and split the unknowns into a separate patch for further discussion for now | 14:56 |
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| ttx | maybe split it, and we can keep the milestone map in WIP | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | right | 14:56 |
| ttx | that | 14:56 |
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| dhellmann | ok, one more thing before we run out of time | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | #topic patches to prioritize | 14:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "patches to prioritize (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:57 | |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/275829/ show more detail in list-changes job | 14:57 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/275853/ do not merge stdout & stderr when trying to check ancestry (I think this led to the keystoneclient 2.1.1 issue, but I'm not sure) | 14:57 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/275986 remove the announce flag from the release wrapper scripts | 14:57 |
| dhellmann | some of those might already have merged | 14:57 |
| dhellmann | yeah, the first two did | 14:57 |
| ttx | all of them actually | 14:57 |
| dhellmann | heh, ok | 14:57 |
| dhellmann | so nevermind :-) | 14:57 |
| dhellmann | #topic open discussion | 14:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:57 | |
| ttx | nothing to add | 14:58 |
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| dhellmann | I'll be working with fungi on the release announcement automation again today | 14:58 |
| ttx | I'll be traveling Wed-Thu next week | 14:58 |
| dhellmann | I expect it will be next week before we get to the releases.o.o work | 14:58 |
| ttx | and then in vacation, the week after | 14:58 |
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| fungi | yeah, i'm around today though i do need to disappear for a good chunk of this afternoon | 14:59 |
| ttx | thatand then, the pre-FF sprint | 14:59 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: you did see the release announcement job worked finally last night though? | 14:59 |
| ttx | checking everything seems to be ready for the big thing | 14:59 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I hadn't checked yet, but will look | 14:59 |
| fungi | i assumed it ended up in the -announce ml moderation queue | 15:00 |
| fungi | but the log was good | 15:00 |
| fungi | anyway, we can move to -infra | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | fungi : great, I'll check the queue (I just signed on right before the meeting) | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | yep, we're out of time here | 15:00 |
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| dhellmann | thanks, everyone! | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Feb 5 15:00:36 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-02-05-14.01.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-02-05-14.01.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-02-05-14.01.log.html | 15:00 |
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