Tuesday, 2016-03-29

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yamamoto#startmeeting networking_midonet07:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 29 07:01:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yamamoto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.07:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.07:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet'07:01
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yamamoto#topic Agenda07:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:03
yamamoto#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet07:03
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yamamoto#topic Announcements07:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:03
yamamotono announcements from me07:04
yamamoto#topic Bugs07:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:04
yamamoto#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/07:04
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yamamotov1 tempest job is still broken.  it needs a fix in midonet v2015.06. unfortunately the branch is no longer maintained.07:07
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yamamoto#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/+bug/155726307:08
openstackLaunchpad bug 1557263 in networking-midonet "Remove MN v1.9 support from mitaka " [Low,Incomplete]07:08
yamamotothis is related.07:08
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yamamotoi'll continue bug deputy this week07:08
yamamoto#topic Open Discussion07:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:08
yamamotonothing from me07:08
* yamamoto waiting for a few minutes before closing meeting07:08
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #telemetry)"07:22
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 29 07:22:45 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)07:22
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-29-07.01.html07:22
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-29-07.01.txt07:22
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-29-07.01.log.html07:22
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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 29 08:00:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:00
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anteayalennyb: was there a time change on the weekend?08:06
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anteayalennyb: I'm hoping that you get your times set correctly for the meeting next week08:13
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anteaya#info lennyb will chair this Tuesday at 08:00 utc meeting next week08:13
anteayaany objection to me closing the meeting?08:13
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #telemetry)"08:14
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 29 08:14:15 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:14
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-29-08.00.html08:14
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-29-08.00.txt08:14
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-29-08.00.log.html08:14
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Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 29 13:00:07 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
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zzxwillHello Qiming.13:01
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Qimingjust posted an agenda for meeting today13:01
Qiming#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda13:01
Qimingplease feel free to add items if you have some13:02
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Qiming#topic austin summit planning13:02
*** openstack changes topic to "austin summit planning (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:02
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QimingI think we are in good shape regarding the deep dive session and the autoscaling session13:03
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Qiminganything you want to discuss regarding these two talks?13:03
lixinhui_The demo is still under refinement13:04
Qimingwe have just got some preliminary session allocation info13:04
lixinhui_thanks for the help of elynn today on security group13:04
elynnJust begin to think of it13:04
Qimingso far we don't have conflicts between the talk sessions and the design summit13:05
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elynnwill discuss with you later if I need help.13:05
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Qimingelynn, consider backport that to stable/mitaka?13:05
elynnok, keep in mind13:06
elynnIs it merged?13:06
Qimingnot yet13:06
Qimingspeaking of container cluster one, let's see what we can get as a poc in this week13:07
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Qiminghaiwei, we will need to sync on that more frequently13:07
haiweiQiming, I started to implement it in senlin, tried to get container list13:07
haiweiit is almost there13:08
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Qiming#link design summit sessions13:08
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-senlin-sessions13:08
Qimingwe have a S7 added though we only have 5 working session + 1 fishbowl session applied13:09
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Qimingadopting existing nova server sounds an interesting scenario13:10
Qimingbut you know, senlin needs a profile for any node created (or adopted)13:10
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Qimingeven if we want to adopt an existing server, we may still have to do two steps:13:11
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cschulzShould we add the 'semi-autoscaling' stuff to this?13:12
Qimingopenstack cluster profile create --from <server_id> --type os.nova.server13:12
Qimingopenstack node create --spec <spec_file> --from <server_id>13:13
Qimingcschulz, you mean design summit session?13:13
cschulzYes, or is it too early?13:13
Qimingcschulz, no, we had a plan for design summit sessions13:14
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Qimingwe are yet to finalize it13:14
Qimingit sounds to me that S3 is not so interesting now13:14
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Qimingwe have already started tempest and rally investigation, tempest framework is getting merged, not a lot to discuss13:15
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lixinhui_since we already start working on that13:15
QimingYanyan has started contributing to rally about support to Senlin13:15
Qimingso how about we replace S3 with S7?13:16
lixinhui_I agree13:16
elynnno problem13:16
haiweithe session number is limited?13:16
haiweiit's ok I think13:16
Qimingyes, haiwei, we only have 5 + 1 + 113:17
Qiming5 work sessions, + 1 fishbowl, +1 developer meetup13:17
Qimingthen we can make S3 cover both your item and cschulz's proposal13:18
haiweisounds good13:18
Qiminghaiwei, I'm still leaving you as the driver13:18
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Qiminglet's move on13:21
Qiming#topic high-priority bugs before final release13:21
*** openstack changes topic to "high-priority bugs before final release (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:21
Qimingthe security group one is a good candidate13:21
Qimingare you aware of any high priority bugs we should merge into stable branch?13:22
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Qimingit is being pushed out of door next week13:22
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Qimingbtw, Liuqing, just proposed a release of senlin-dashboard 0.2.0 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298710/13:23
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Qimingemm... no one is yelling, great, let's continue work on newton items13:24
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Qiming#topic newton work items13:24
*** openstack changes topic to "newton work items (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:24
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems13:24
Qimingtesting side, no news from china mobile yet, but they have some guys evaluating multi-region deployment, that I know13:25
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lixinhui_I think it would be better if we can schedule13:25
lixinhui_some meeting with them here13:26
lixinhui_about oslo and13:26
lixinhui_scalability things13:26
Qimingokay, will do13:26
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lixinhui_remember they once showed some parameters there13:27
Qiming#action Qiming to sync with china mobile guys on oslo.messaging and scalability lessons learnt13:27
lixinhui_when mid-cycle13:27
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Qimingwill schedule a call with them soon13:27
Qimingtempest testing, where are we, elynn?13:28
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QimingI saw some patches coming in13:28
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Qiminganything you want to discuss, or it is all under your good control?13:28
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elynnAn initial patch is submitted and I will rebase it based on your comments.13:29
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elynnIt's good for now.13:29
Qimingokay, please consider adding support to some failure cases, such as node creation failures, driver failures13:29
elynnJust need some time to move all tests to use tempest plugin.13:29
zzxwillSorry, 'china mobile'? To deploy clusters in their cloud by senlin?13:29
elynnIt's trivial.13:29
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Qiminggreat. what we need is not just tests against successes, but also those against failures13:30
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Qimingas a user, I really hope the service never fails, and if it fails, it fails in a predictable way13:31
Qimingzzxwill, that is true13:32
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Qiminglixinhui_, do we have some data about stress testing senlin?13:33
elynnOkay, so let me think of it. Haven't figure out how to implement them in tempest, I will keep on digging.13:33
lixinhui_Yes, Qiming13:33
lixinhui_with simulated drvier13:33
lixinhui_one engine runing with 8 cpu and 16mem can support 1000 scale node creation without any problem13:34
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lixinhui_With real driver, we meet some image authentication failure13:34
Qimingdoes multi-engine setup help in scaling?13:34
Qimingso it is broken, but not at senlin side13:35
lixinhui_not in senlin side13:35
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Qimingokay, hope we can learn something from china mobile guys13:35
lixinhui_with two engine, 2500 creation has no problem13:35
lixinhui_but will do more tests13:35
lixinhui_to find your question13:36
lixinhui_find answer/evidence to your question13:36
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lixinhui_Yes, it would nice if we can have more exchange with china mobile guys13:37
Qiminghealth mgmt side, do we have lb based health poller?13:37
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lixinhui_I implemented one13:37
lixinhui_and adopt it into the auto-scaling demo13:37
Qimingokay, would be curious to see how it looks like, :)13:37
lixinhui_will discuss more details with you tomorrow13:38
lixinhui_nowdays, I polling neutron for node status13:38
lixinhui_member status13:38
lixinhui_the status is changed by health monitor of lbaas13:39
Qimingregarding HA scenario, I have pasted some references to the etherpad13:39
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-ha-recover13:39
lixinhui_I read them and treasure them very much13:39
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Qimingit is very complicated and a huge problem domain13:40
lixinhui_I think we should try these works in permitted scope13:40
Qimingneed to collect a lot inputs to form a global picture, then find something we want to focus on13:40
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Qimingthere are interests in auto-evacuation13:41
Qimingbut ... that is only one of the scenarios13:41
cschulzI think this is another area where we could use Zaqar to get information into Senlin13:41
Qimingwe need to find out how to amend our health policy to get fencing done13:41
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cschulzA cluster in trouble could send a notification in via a Zaqar queue13:42
Qimingyes, cschulz, we will need many ears and eyes13:42
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Qimingright, we have some related todo items documented in source tree13:43
Qimingwe need to yield notifications when something note worthy happens13:43
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Qimingwe also need to generate some meters for ceilometer if there are such use cases13:43
Qiminglixinhui_, regarding the full end-to-end story documentation13:44
cschulzI would think that a cluster size meter would be very useful13:44
QimingI'm thinking of sharing your autoscaling template into heat-templates project some day13:44
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cschulzi.e. raise an alarm when a cluster grows beyond some alarm specified limit.13:45
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lixinhui_YeYes, Qiming13:45
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Qimingwe send out an event after cluster size change13:45
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Qimingleave the evaluation and alarming logic to telemetry/metering/alarming service, :)13:45
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lixinhui_what do you mean by generate some meters for ceilometer if there are such use cases13:46
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lixinhui_i think we will leverage heat for alarm creation13:47
Qimingservice like monasca/ceilometer would collect runtime statistics from every service13:47
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Qimingit is up to senlin to generate whatever such measurements13:47
lixinhui_I see13:48
lixinhui_thanks for explanation13:48
Qimingit is almost done13:48
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Qimingstill poking around and see if there things missed, will mark the bp completed if nothing else left13:49
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* Qiming reading semi-autoscaling notes13:49
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Qimingso, if we are leveraging zaqar for messaging/notifications13:50
cschulzI'm not sure about the notification part.  We might be able to do that via ceilometer per our earlier discussion13:50
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Qimingwe can incorporate the incoming messages via receivers, just a new sub-type of it13:51
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cschulzYes, I've started working on a Zaqar client but could use some guidance.13:51
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Qimingnotification (outgoing) side, I'd like that to be a deployer configured option13:51
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Qimingit can be a list of drivers13:51
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flaper87cschulz: Qiming u guys working on a zaqar client for what?13:51
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* flaper87 sneaks in13:51
flaper87There's a python client13:52
* flaper87 admits he didn't read the backlog13:52
Qiminglet the deployers decide if notifications going to oslo or zaqar or both13:52
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cschulzflaper87 for Senlin incoming and outgoing messages.13:52
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Qimingflaper87, we are looking to zaqar to trigger autoscaling from user land13:52
flaper87ah, sounds great!13:53
Qimingand also some other possibilities13:53
cschulzQiming OK.13:53
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flaper87well, happy to help and provide guidance if needed13:53
flaper87Also, #openstack-zaqar is a pretty cool channel13:53
Qimingauto-scaling triggered from infrastructure layer is a toy, if not a mistake13:53
cschulzflaper87,  Thanks.  I'll contact you.13:53
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Qimingflaper87, cookies there?13:53
lixinhui_Qiming always feel hungry13:54
Qimingflaper87, will reference your blog post in a coming talk, :)13:54
cschulzflaper87, what time zone you in?13:54
flaper87Qiming: yup but we're fans of gummybears13:54
Qiminganyway, that's pretty much what we have on agenda13:54
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flaper87Qiming: a-ha! :D Which one? Let me know if you need help13:55
Qiming#topic open discussion13:55
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flaper87cschulz: oh, that's a very good question :P13:55
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flaper87I don't even know13:55
Qimingflaper87, the ptl one13:55
flaper87It's easier to ping me than keeping track of my TZs whereabouts13:55
cschulzflaper87 OK13:56
flaper87that said, I'm supposed to be in Central Europe TZ13:56
flaper87(should be summer time now so CEST)13:56
Qimingfei long will continue his ptl job next cycle?13:56
flaper87which I'm not right onw13:57
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flaper87Qiming: yes13:57
cschulzAny particular IRC channel to use?13:57
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cschulzOK thanks13:57
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Qimingokay, guys, thanks for joining, talk to you next week13:59
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openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 29 13:59:24 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-29-13.00.html13:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-29-13.00.txt13:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-29-13.00.log.html13:59
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ihrachysok, let's get it started14:01
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ihrachys#startmeeting networking14:01
jschwarzihrachys, yeah!14:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 29 14:01:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:01
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rossella_shi :)14:01
ihrachyshi everyone! :)14:01
hoangcxhi :014:01
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aimeeUhi :014:01
njohnstonHi, Dr. Nick!14:01
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* ihrachys notes good representation this time :)14:02
ihrachys#topic Announcements14:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"14:02
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ihrachysfirst thing first... there was a time zone switch this weekend in some parts of the world14:02
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ihrachysmake sure your meeting times are set using UTC :)14:02
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dasmihrachys: and two weeks ago in other parts ;)14:03
* jschwarz is glad he got this meeting right on the first try14:03
ihrachysdasm: right. people like when it's complex.14:03
* ihrachys waves those who join14:03
ihrachysnow, let's look at what we have for Mitaka14:03
ihrachys1. RC2 is tagged:14:04
ihrachys#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/295398/14:04
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ihrachysunless something really bad is spotted in Mitaka, this will be our final14:04
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amullerQuite an accomplishment :)14:04
ihrachysatm we are not aware of anything that would require another RC14:04
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ihrachysbut if you do, you should yell right now14:04
ihrachysnow, as you probably know, there is a new process to track feature deliverables for Mitaka called 'post mortem'14:05
ihrachys#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/286413/14:05
ihrachysyour glorious PTL kindly asks everyone involved to get thru the list again and fill in gaps if any14:06
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ihrachysif all goes right, RC2 is the final, and we will celebrate the git hashes; and Armando will be able to have some rest.14:06
ihrachysthat said, not for long!14:07
ihrachysfor Newton, we have schedule posted:14:07
ihrachys#link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html14:07
* ihrachys kindly suggest to check whether it makes sense for us14:07
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reedip__So next week is the final release , lucky number 13...14:08
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ihrachyssince master is now open for Newton, please rush to propose your new cool features for Newton :)14:09
ihrachysnote that there are some tweaks for the RFE process made for Newton:14:09
ihrachys#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/296120/14:09
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dasmihrachys: big refactor for tenant_id->project_id is retargeted for Newton \o/14:10
ihrachysspecifically, now every RFE will have a blueprint posted [even if a stub], and an approver from the active team members will be assigned to those features approved by drivers team.14:10
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ihrachysthe goal is to make sure that all RFEs have dedicated reviewers assigned that will be responsible for working with implementers to get it in14:11
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HenryGAlso note that our fearless PTL has declared that "Stability is the priority" for Newton. That probably means less features will be approved this time.14:11
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* njohnston is wondering if this spec can merge now, since the code implementing it has already merged? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190285/14:12
ihrachysI approve this message ^14:12
ihrachysnjohnston: yes. we'll get back to it in next weeks.14:12
hichiharaWho are "active team members"?14:12
ihrachysshould be a no-issue14:12
hichiharaDoes it mean core team?14:13
njohnstonOK, I wasn't sure if there was a freeze that would thaw on neutron-specs at a particular point in time.14:13
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ihrachyshichihara: I don't think there is strict definition, but the group definitely includes core reviewers plus some more seasoned folks.14:13
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hichiharaihrachys: I got it. Thanks.14:13
ihrachyshichihara: the main point in having an approver is to make someone care about review velocity on daily/weekly basis14:13
reedip__What about the status of neutronclient ??14:13
ihrachyshichihara: in theory, if someone is active but is not core, and the person pulls proper reviewers into patches and makes sure the process is smooth, then it can be any person.14:14
reedip__not to play a spoiltsport, but it seems there are several reviews open there, for a long time now ...14:14
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ihrachysreedip__: elaborate?14:14
amotokireedip__: what do you mean?14:14
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hichiharaihrachys: make sense14:15
amotokiwe maintain neutronclient (CLI side) until OSC has feature compat and after that we maintain library side.14:15
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ihrachysreedip: are they critical, or they may wait until reviewers get to them?14:15
reedip__ihrachys : not all of them, but I have been trying to get the focus of reviewers on one of the item , but failed to do so ...14:16
reedip__If this is the right forum, then I can bring it up now...14:16
ihrachysin ideal world, all patches will get immediate response. in reality, reviewers need to prioritize, so it's not uncommon to leave some patches off the plate for some time, especially when everyone deals with release stuff.14:17
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ihrachysreedip__: let's discuss it in #openstack-neutron channel after the meeting.14:17
reedip__okay , got it ihrachys14:17
ihrachysok, one more thing to note while we are in the announcement section14:17
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ihrachysArmando started to collect ideas for the design sessions we'll have14:17
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ihrachys#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-neutron-summit-ideas14:18
ihrachyshe will work on crafting some draft schedule for Neutron this week14:18
ihrachysI suggest you update the etherpad with your ideas, if you have some and if you haven't already done it.14:18
amullerThe number of suggestions is surprisingly low14:18
amullerWhere is everyone's ideas?14:19
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amullerNow's your time!14:19
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ihrachysthat's a good marketing pitch14:19
ihrachysso... do as Assaf told ^ he is a wise guy :)14:20
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ihrachysI think that's it for announcements. anyone else having another announcement to make?14:20
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ihrachysok, moving on14:21
ihrachys#topic Bugs14:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:21
HenryGVery quiet week on bugs14:21
HenryGOnly one worth mentioning14:21
HenryGIt showed up last night14:21
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HenryGBug 156302814:22
openstackbug 1563028 in Trove "Routes version 2.3 broke the way we register routes" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1563028 - Assigned to Amrith (amrith)14:22
HenryGAffects Neutron too14:22
ihrachysHenryG: we are guarded with constraints, right?14:22
amullerihrachys: yeah14:22
HenryGihrachys: yes, but for how long?14:22
amullerHenryG: Do we have a process for detecting stuff like this?14:22
amullerI mean, how was that bug noticed?14:22
HenryGamuller: I don't know14:23
amullerwas it just a manual / chance thing?14:23
ihrachysamuller: the gate for upper constraints file update, which is in requirements repo14:23
amotokiI think g-r change detects it hopefully14:23
amullerihrachys: when we try to apply the version bump to neutron, or in the global requirements repo change?14:23
amotokiI mean g-r change jenkins check, but it does not cover all.14:23
ihrachysas long as there is a job in their gate to catch it, it should trigger the failure.14:23
ihrachysamuller: upper constraints are managed in single place - in requirements repo14:23
HenryGAnyway, the fix is easy if someone wants to take it. Just do like the Trove fix.14:23
amullerihrachys: if we're only detecting this via the g-r repo CI then we obviously have a huge hole there14:24
ihrachysamuller: once the bump lands there, it immediately applies to all projects14:24
ihrachysamuller: there is no hole. the idea is that we should add more specific jobs to g-r gate for constraints file if current list is not enough to catch something.14:24
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amullerihrachys: right since our tox.ini just picks up the reqs from global repo14:24
amullerihrachys: so the vision is to add dozens of jobs to g-r repo? Doesn't seem like a scalable approach =D14:25
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ihrachysamuller: only 'representative' list of those jobs.14:25
ihrachysamuller: and to trigger them only for constraints bumps14:25
ihrachysobviously, sometimes the mechanism will fail, which will indicate the need to expand the coverage for one of those jobs, or add a new one.14:26
* amuller nods14:26
ihrachysno silver bullet. but it's worth checking whether the Routes bug we started discussion from is indeed triggered in the g-r gate14:26
amotokiat least we can avoid a situation where all fails14:27
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* HenryG sees Cedric has assigned himself the bug14:27
amulleramotoki: Of course this is much better than before we had upper constraints :)14:27
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ihrachysright. without constraints, we would currently run in fire drill mode trying to manage gate casualties14:28
ihrachysHenryG: thanks for the update and taking on the job.14:28
ihrachysthis week amotoki is the deputy14:29
ihrachyswe need a volunteer for the next week Apr4-14:29
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* ihrachys notes that it's not necessarily a core reviewer14:29
dasmihrachys: i thought we're replaying all deputies14:29
ihrachysdasm: replaying == ?14:29
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dasmstarting from beginning of list of deputies14:30
ihrachysno, it did not happen14:30
reedip__ihrachys: I can try ...14:30
dasmHenryG: recycling won't work. everything will be scratched :)14:30
dasmreedip__: ++14:30
ihrachysreedip__: ok great. please sync with me or armax or amotoki on the process.14:30
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hichiharareedip__: Cool14:31
HenryGGo reedip__ !!14:31
reedip__ihrachys : yes, I will14:31
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ihrachysok, I am back from excitement14:31
ihrachysone more thing to cover in the Bugs section before we move on14:31
ihrachysour tremendous PTL would like us to become more aware of what's going on with the gate14:32
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ihrachyswe have lots of jobs in check queue, lots of them non-voting14:32
ihrachysoften times they are failing14:32
ihrachyswith no clear understanding of when they will get in better shape to allow enabling votes for them14:32
ihrachys(which is the supposed end goal for any job added to the check queue)14:33
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ihrachys#link http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate?panelId=5&fullscreen14:33
ihrachysthat's one of the dashboards that show sad state for some jobs we have14:34
ihrachysfullstack is 50% failure rate :-|14:34
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ihrachysfunctional is at 15%14:34
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HenryGfullstack fixes are in queue14:34
dasmHenryG: link?14:34
ihrachysHenryG: hopefully yes14:35
hichiharafullstack is OK for me because of non-voting but functional test is bad ;)14:35
HenryGI agree functional is worrysome14:35
ihrachyswe will need to have specific people assigned to jobs we have to provide reports about gate state14:35
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ihrachysone idea is e.g. to have bug deputy provide that kind of report. or that will be another role for that.14:35
ihrachysthe main point is obviously not the report itself14:36
ihrachysbut getting traction and actual fixes in, and getting jobs voting14:36
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HenryGdasm: the main one is https://review.openstack.org/29805614:36
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ihrachysif the community CANNOT manage the number of jobs, we may need to discontinue some of them.14:36
dasmHenryG: thx14:36
ihrachyswhich would be a sad story for everyone14:36
njohnston+1 to having another role, someone to provide long term oversight and who can recognize patterns, which is a very specific set of eqpertise you have to work at14:37
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HenryGI need to check the PG job and see if we can make it voting again14:37
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dasmnjohnston: ++14:37
ihrachysso I encourage folks that have jobs for their respective components/features/jobs to take another look on the set we have and make visible progress there14:37
ihrachysit is probably in line with the vision that PTL has for the release to be more focused on code stabilization than new features.14:38
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hichiharaThe role needs infra, devstack, tempest, neutron, and so on. not easy.14:38
ihrachysI am not actually sure the role should cover the deep dive into logs. even making the team aware about current pain points and stabilization patches up for review would make a huge difference.14:39
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amotokithe role can raise stability problem at least14:40
ihrachysanyhow, I will leave it up to PTL to cover the details. I think Armando should come up with some specific proposal to get us back on track with the gate.14:40
amotokiit is very good start14:40
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ihrachysamotoki: right. even someone who merely notifies e.g. dvr or linuxbridge folks about their job starting to misbehave 'this Monday' would help us a lot to manage problems in due manner.14:41
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ihrachysok, let's move on14:42
ihrachys#topic Docs14:42
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ihrachysI don't see Sam-I-Am around. prolly may need to skip the section.14:42
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ihrachys#topic Open Agenda14:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Agenda (Meeting topic: networking)"14:43
ihrachysI don't see any specific topics in the agenda14:43
ihrachysok, then I will just throw my itch here :)14:43
ihrachys#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/090235.html14:43
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ihrachysas some of you probably know, we ran proactive backporting effort during Mitaka dev cycle14:44
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ihrachyswe basically backported a lot of fixes to stable branches in a more systemic way14:44
ihrachysthat said, we have not seen enough diversity in contributions14:44
ihrachysI *hope* that stable branches are of interest to different groups in the community14:45
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ihrachysso I encourage those folks to read the link and get involved in the process. in the end, it helps everyone who relies on stable branches (which, I suspect, is 80%+ of users we have)14:46
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haleybyes, especially the dvr fixes :)14:46
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ihrachyshaleyb: especially dvr: fixes are often times quite twisted and require domain knowledge from those who work actively on the feature.14:46
haleybihrachys: i will look at the l3/dvr fixes, i have the page up somewhere14:47
ihrachysit would be cool to see more active contributors to master to spend some cycles on delivering fixes to users thru stable pipeline.14:47
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haleybfor backports14:47
ihrachyshaleyb: thanks!14:47
ihrachys#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/stable-bug-candidates-from-master14:47
ihrachys^ that's the etherpad where we currently manage the list of work items for potential backports.14:47
amotokias you may know, when you are involved in the stabler branches, please read the stable branch policy!14:48
ihrachysyeah, right. it's linked in the etherpad, but just in case:14:48
amotokiespecially http://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#appropriate-fixes14:48
ihrachys#link http://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html14:48
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ihrachysok, I made my pitch :)14:49
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ihrachysanyone else with something for the open agenda/14:49
electrocucarachaihrachys: I noticed that you have serveral references to a tool that you uses some get some data.  I'm wondering where is that tool14:49
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ihrachyselectrocucaracha: oh that's actually still in review but:14:49
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ihrachys#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack-infra/release-tools+owner:%22Ihar+Hrachyshka+%253Cihrachys%2540redhat.com%253E%2214:49
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electrocucarachagot it, thanks14:50
ihrachysI will post more tools for the process in the next weeks.14:50
ihrachysok, I guess we can call it a day. thanks everyone for joining the meeting!14:50
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #telemetry)"14:51
dasmthanks. c'ya14:51
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 29 14:51:01 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:51
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-03-29-14.01.html14:51
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-03-29-14.01.txt14:51
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-03-29-14.01.log.html14:51
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hoangcxThanks ihrachys. Bye14:51
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carl_baldwin#startmeeting neutron_routed_networks15:00
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openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 29 15:00:27 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is carl_baldwin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_routed_networks'15:00
carl_baldwin#topic Announcements15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:00
carl_baldwin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-Routed-Networks15:00
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carl_baldwinWe had one patch merge!15:01
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carl_baldwinIt was the patch by gongysh and mlavalle to move the networksegments table to make it available to all plugins.15:01
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carl_baldwinThank you mlavalle for jumping in and taking care of the migration aspects of that change.  I know that wasn't trivial.15:02
mlavalleI learned a few things15:02
mlavalleso thank you15:02
carl_baldwinI'm hoping we can get a steady pace of merging small but meaningful changes like this.15:03
carl_baldwin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/296603/15:03
carl_baldwin^ Next up to merge.  I think it is good to go.  It passed tests but I noticed a merge conflict was going to hit it and rebased preemptively.15:04
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* carl_baldwin truly thinks small meaningful patches is the best way to get things merged.15:05
carl_baldwinAny other announcements?15:05
carl_baldwinOkay, let's move on to discuss progress.15:06
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carl_baldwinI already hit the first two points, the next one is...15:06
carl_baldwin#topic IPAM15:07
*** openstack changes topic to "IPAM (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:07
carl_baldwinI started working on some IPAM aspects yesterday and I think I might have a plan forward.15:07
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carl_baldwinBasically, the thought is to introduce groups to IPAM.  When we create a subnet, we'll pass in a group_id to IPAM to record with the subnet.15:08
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carl_baldwinOf course, we'll have to have a way to ask the plugin if it supports the feature because we'll require it for segments support.15:09
neiljerramWhat does the group_id represent?15:09
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carl_baldwinneiljerram: a group!15:10
* carl_baldwin kidding15:10
carl_baldwinneiljerram: I was thinking a group of subnets within the network.  I'm not sure yet if it needs to be more than that.15:11
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carl_baldwinWhen we want an IP allocation from the network, we pass in the group id (or None).  IPAM will select subnets matching the group for allocation.15:12
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carl_baldwinI was thinking we could also somehow configure it for hard or soft boundaries (does IPAM go outside the group if there are no more IPs left in the group).15:12
carl_baldwinI hope to have some code up soon to illustrate how it will work.15:13
neiljerramSounds interesting, although I'm afraid I'm not yet seeing the idea fully....15:13
neiljerramOut of interest, are you thinking of adding this into the existing spec, or of finishing that one up and starting a separate one?15:14
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neiljerramI'd say probably better to bank the existing one first.15:14
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carl_baldwinneiljerram: I was thinking of doing this under the current spec.15:14
neiljerramI'm sure that would be fine too!15:15
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carl_baldwinneiljerram: Your desire, if I understand, is to group cidrs by host for route aggregation, right?  You could map hosts to a group.  My desire is to group them by segment.15:16
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neiljerramcarl_baldwin, Correct.  So in general the idea of generalizing that grouping sounds good.15:16
carl_baldwinneiljerram: It isn't a fully baked idea yet.  But, I wanted to bring it up for discussion.  I'll take it to the ML today.15:17
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egonDo you have an etherpad, or something for fleshing out ideas?15:18
carl_baldwinIt might even be possible to work in what haleyb is working on with service subnets.  I'll have to think about that.15:18
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carl_baldwinegon: Not for this one at the moment.15:18
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carl_baldwinegon: That might be the way to go.  Watch the ML for the moment.15:19
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egonThere's a few use cases that might benefit from being able to be "guided" into a CIDR block, or tenants/users restricted from using one.15:19
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egonIt does matter as much until you get BYO CIDR...15:19
egoner.. does not.15:20
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carl_baldwin#action carl_baldwin will post to the ML about IPAM subnet groups (or whatever we decide to call them).15:20
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carl_baldwinAnything else for right now on this subject?15:20
neiljerramAm I right in thinking that Neutron already allows a Network to have multiple Subnets?  If so, then there are already IPAM things that I don't understand - which subnet is used.15:21
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neiljerramBut don't need to cover that now - sorry!15:21
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carl_baldwinneiljerram: Yes, it does.  Let's take it to the ML.  That is a good point.  It is important to understand how IPAM handles that.15:22
reedip__neiljerram: a network can have multiple subnets in neutron15:22
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carl_baldwin#topic Nova Scheduler15:22
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*** openstack changes topic to "Nova Scheduler (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:22
carl_baldwinmlavalle: hi again.15:22
mlavalleso I have been attending the Nova scheduler meetings to make sure we keep the Nova attention team on our spec15:23
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carl_baldwinjaypipes pinged me this morning to have a discussion about this over Hangouts.15:23
carl_baldwin#link https://review.openstack.org/26389815:23
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mlavalleWe have agreed that the routed networks spec for Nova will be discussed weekly during that meeting15:24
carl_baldwinHe's going to ping me at 3pm MDT.15:24
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mlavalleyeah, he pinged me at the same time15:24
mlavalleso I will join the conversation15:24
carl_baldwinHave you all seen this diagram?15:24
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carl_baldwin#link https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4AotMGstEW6TE5XdzMxWXhHa3M/view?usp=sharing15:24
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neiljerramI have now - great diagram.15:25
carl_baldwinIt is sort of a state diagram showing the three paths from no port to a VM with an IP.15:25
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carl_baldwinneiljerram: Thanks, it was getting too difficult for me to keep thinking about it in my head.15:26
carl_baldwin... and remember some of the more subtle transitions.15:26
neiljerramIIUC from the spec, there is at least one common scenario where it's already true that Neutron does its IP allocation _after_ Nova has chosen the compute host.15:26
mlavalleas background for the team, we see 3 use cases from the nova perspective: nova creates the port, nova receives a port with no ip address and nova recived a port with ip address15:26
carl_baldwinmlavalle: exactly, thanks.15:26
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neiljerramWhich one happens if you use Horizon and just specify the network to attach to?15:27
mlavallefor the first 2, we think we have specified the mechanism needed to handle them15:27
carl_baldwinWe haven't made as much progress on this as I'd hoped in the last week.  I was hoping for at least two more comments like mlavalle 's on the spec.15:27
carl_baldwinThank you mlavalle for spelling out your proposal on the spec.15:27
mlavallethe difficult one is the third one15:27
neiljerramI'm sorry - I did read, but didn't comment.15:27
mlavallelast night I came up with a rough idea of another approach15:28
mlavalleI call it "eventually nova consistent" approach15:28
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mlavallein this approach we let nova's view to become outdated for brief periods of time15:28
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mlavalleI will add it as comment to the spec later today15:29
mlavallethe idea came to me last night after yoga class15:29
mlavallemy intent is to minimize the synchronization needed between nova and neutron15:29
carl_baldwinmlavalle: I'll call it the "yoga solution".  ;)15:30
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mlavallethe conversation with jaypipes later today will be useful to flesh out this idea15:30
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Another approach I'm thinking about is talked about in the state diagram above (#2 at the top).  I'll give that some more thought too.15:30
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neiljerram( carl_baldwin - about that diagram, actually it's rather small to read easily, and goes fuzzy when I try to enlarge it... )15:31
carl_baldwinneiljerram: You need to "open" it in your browser.15:31
neiljerramcarl_baldwin, I did, I think..15:32
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mlavalleneiljerram: going back to your comment, the use case that happens in horizon is nova creates the port15:32
reedip__How to open int in the browser?15:32
neiljerrammlavalle, thanks.  I'll re-read the spec and comment this time!15:32
carl_baldwinneiljerram: After clicking the link, at the top there is an "open with" which creates yet another tab in your browser.15:32
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carl_baldwinreedip__: ^15:33
carl_baldwinMake sense?15:33
mlavallecarl_baldwin: one thing I think we also need to clarify today with Jay is how resources are released in resource pools15:33
reedip__got it opened15:33
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reedip__thanks carl_baldwin15:34
mlavallecarl_baldwin: I haven't seen that spelled out in any of the specs15:34
carl_baldwinmlavalle: ++15:34
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carl_baldwinAnything more we can / should discuss on this now?  We've got a couple of other things.15:34
carl_baldwinOkay, moving on15:35
carl_baldwin#topic Host / Segment mapping15:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Host / Segment mapping (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:35
mlavallehi again15:35
neiljerramcarl_baldwin, that only gives me web-based options, including draw.io which asked for access to my google drive...  All I want is a decent resolution .png or .svg download...15:35
mlavalleI saw your comment to the patchset yesterday15:35
carl_baldwinThe thing that came up here is if we should continue with the assumption that we are only going to map hosts to physical networks or if we should do true host / segment mapping.15:35
mlavalle#url https://review.openstack.org/#/c/285548/15:36
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mlavalleso I spent a chunk of the afternoon going through the other patchset15:36
mlavalle#url https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20563115:36
mlavalleyes, it useful15:36
mlavalleit is useful15:37
carl_baldwinneiljerram: I'll post something else.15:37
neiljerramcarl_baldwin, thanks!15:37
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neiljerramSo, is that assumption ML2-specific, or implementation-related?15:38
mlavallecarl_baldwin: could you explain further the difference between phys net mapping and segment mapping?15:38
neiljerramOr is it something represented in the API / data model?15:38
carl_baldwinneiljerram: No, it isn't ML2 only.15:38
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carl_baldwinneiljerram: It is a data model now and could be reflected in plugin API.15:39
carl_baldwinmlavalle: A segment is more than a physical network.  It adds segmentation id and type.15:39
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mlavallecarl_baldwin: correct. But a segment maps to a physnet, correct?15:40
mlavalleand it has its added attributes15:40
carl_baldwinmlavalle: That is the thing we're thing to determine.15:40
mlavallecarl_baldwin: I was looking here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205631/33/neutron/tests/unit/plugins/ml2/test_plugin.py15:41
carl_baldwinI guess my question is are there valid reasons to need multiple segments within a physical network.15:41
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neiljerramIt seems to me that segment is the established concept in Neutron, so I'd be inclined to map to that.15:41
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mlavallecarl_baldwin: I am not clear on that. However, the code I see in the patchset I just mentioned suggests that segments and phys nets map 1 to 115:42
neiljerramWell, multiple VLANs on a single physical network...15:42
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mlavallecarl_baldwin: so I was thinking to ping Kevin Benton later today and have this conversation15:44
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: Should we take this to the ML?15:44
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mlavallecarl_baldwin: good idea. I'll send a message as soon as we finish this meeting15:44
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: Thanks.15:45
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carl_baldwin#action mlavalle will post to the ML about host mapping (are segments 1-1 with physical networks?)15:45
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carl_baldwin#topic Create / delete segment in ML215:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Create / delete segment in ML2 (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:46
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carl_baldwinI briefly started looking at this but decided to put it on the back burner.15:46
carl_baldwinRight now, I have a patch up that enables segments API in ML2 but only to view segments created through provider and multi-provider extensions.15:47
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carl_baldwin#link https://review.openstack.org/29665815:47
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carl_baldwinThe reason is that it may not be trivial to enable create / delete on segments with an existing network.15:47
carl_baldwin#link https://review.openstack.org/28444015:48
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carl_baldwinSeparating this out let's me focus on the IPAM aspects we already discussed.15:48
carl_baldwinIs anyone familiar enough with segments and ML2 who would like to try to progress this further?15:48
neiljerramI've spent time trying to understand that - but probably not enough yet to really help.15:50
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carl_baldwinOk, get the word out that this could use some attention.  It should ideally be someone already familiar with ML2.15:50
carl_baldwinI'll leave it on the back burner while we make progress in other areas.15:51
carl_baldwinHowever, it would be really restrictive to not be able to add segments to an existing network in the long run.15:51
carl_baldwinAlso, making some progress on this in parallel with other efforts would be a big win!15:52
carl_baldwin#topic Segment aware DHCP15:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Segment aware DHCP (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:52
carl_baldwinA related patch merged yesterday15:52
carl_baldwin#link https://review.openstack.org/20563115:53
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carl_baldwin(already mentioned by mlavalle in this meeting)15:53
mlavalleyeah, it sheds light on our efforts15:53
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carl_baldwinThis is another area that is up for grabs.  In terms of difficulty it might be a little bit easier than the create / delete segments one.15:54
carl_baldwinI have ZZelle in mind for this but I'm not sure of his availability.15:54
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carl_baldwin#action carl_baldwin will ping ZZelle (and maybe amuller) about helping us to make progress in this area.15:55
carl_baldwin#topic Client15:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Client (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:55
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carl_baldwinAnyone here to discuss the client?15:55
mlavallertheis: ^^^15:56
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Thanks, I was just looking up the spelling of rtheis 's nic.15:56
carl_baldwinreedip__: Hi15:56
mlavalleyeah reedip__ is also helping here :-)15:56
rtheiscarl_baldwin: I have the OSC patches out as WIP15:57
carl_baldwinrtheis: cool15:57
rtheisI will update them with name and description support as soon as that works15:57
carl_baldwinI hope to have another API change up for review adding segment_id to subnets.  That'll be the next thing to need client support.15:57
reedip__I will follow up on my work of name and desc with the PROPER checkouts15:57
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reedip__carl_baldwin: okay15:58
carl_baldwinIt'll be a new patch set on an existing review15:58
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carl_baldwin#link https://review.openstack.org/28877415:58
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carl_baldwinreedip__: Thanks.15:59
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* carl_baldwin notes time15:59
rtheiscarl_baldwin: One item that I'm pondering is where this OSC code should live...python-openstackclient or python-neutronclient (as OS plugin)15:59
rtheisthe network segment CLI that is15:59
rtheisseems like this is core and should go in OSC15:59
rtheisthat's were I'm leaning16:00
carl_baldwinrtheis: I think you're the resident expert for deciding that.16:00
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carl_baldwinOkay, we're out of time.16:00
reedip__plugin wont make a strong sense here16:00
rtheisopinions welcome16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #telemetry)"16:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 29 16:00:28 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-03-29-15.00.html16:00
reedip__OSC should be preferred16:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-03-29-15.00.txt16:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-03-29-15.00.log.html16:00
rtheisthanks reedip__16:00
reedip__darn it... just missed the logs :D16:00
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carl_baldwinThanks, all!16:01
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reedip__good morning o/16:01
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carl_baldwinkevinbenton: ping, addressed your feedback on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/296603/16:23
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ayounglets do this17:59
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stevemarajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, MaxPC, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tjcocozz, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek17:59
ayoungKEYSTONE HO!!!!!17:59
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stevemarping for keystone meeting!18:00
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stevemar#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 29 18:00:39 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
ayoung\m/  (-v-) \m/18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
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stevemar#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:00
stevemaragenda ^18:00
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stevemar#topic Keystone RC status18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Keystone RC status (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
stevemarwe actually have 2 release blockers, reported yesterday :(18:01
stevemar#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bugs?field.tag=mitaka-rc-potential18:01
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ayoungmorgan, do you havethe PG stuff undercontrol?18:01
stevemarmigration fails for long running deployments, and one postgres bug18:01
morganayoung: huh?18:01
morganayoung: the migration 88 one needs unit tests18:02
morganthe migraion 91 one i haven't had time to explore/figure out what is going on18:02
stevemarand the migration 091 one needs eyes18:02
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ayoungI'll take it18:02
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stevemarso, if anyone else wants to take a look, please do !18:02
shalehstevemar: do we not have anything like this automated?18:02
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crinklefwiw i can't reproduce the 091 issue for the life of me18:02
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stevemarcrinkle: you are using postgres for your db?18:03
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morgan91 might be PGSQL only18:03
crinklestevemar: yep18:03
crinklei am sure ayoung will have better luck18:03
morganthis might be another "long running environment issue" =/18:03
ayoungstevemar, link to where it is failing?18:03
ayoungmight be something in the log18:03
ayoungand it might be a DB version18:04
stevemarshaleh: not really, this is because the deployment was using havana and kept upgrading... his db didn't have some constraints apparently18:04
ayoungmorgan, We would see that error if the migration had already run18:04
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rderosei wonder if the issue is with this: use_labels=True18:04
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rderosein the select18:04
henrynash(missed the start - this is the role name issue, I assume?)18:04
ayoungthe way the migration works is i makes a join, and the cols have names like user_password and local_user_password, but at the end, it drops the password column18:04
shalehstevemar: sounds like something we should have floating though. Install the release, put the vms to sleep, wake them up near the end for a round of testing.18:04
morganhenrynash: no the password one18:04
samueldmqhi, here now18:05
morganhenrynash: the role_name one is mostly under control [just needs unit tests]18:05
stevemarhenrynash: there are 2 bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1562934 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/156296518:05
openstackLaunchpad bug 1562934 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) newton "liberty -> mitaka db migrate fails when constraint names are inconsistent" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Morgan Fainberg (mdrnstm)18:05
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ayoungstevemar, I would have preferred we had done the drop in a separate migration, in the future18:05
openstackLaunchpad bug 1562965 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) " liberty -> mitaka db migrate fails on postgresql 091 migration" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Adam Young (ayoung)18:05
henrynashmorgan: ok18:05
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stevemarone is 086, the other is 09118:05
morganstevemar: 08818:05
stevemaroops, 088*18:05
stevemarone has a fix, the other not so much18:06
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ayoungstevemar, let me get a linkto the failure18:06
stevemarcrinkle: the originator is prometheanfire, he's been hanging out in the -keystone channel and has been very helpful in testing out patches18:06
ayoungstevemar,  I think that is spurious18:07
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ayoungstevemar, are we seeing the failure in a gatejob?18:07
morganayoung: neither of these show in the gate18:08
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ayoungmorgan, its not an erro18:08
ayoungmorgan, he was running these by hand18:08
stevemarayoung: nope, not in the gates18:08
ayoungthe migration is not designed to run multiple times18:08
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ayoungI discussed with him last night18:08
morganayoung: oh 91 was a multiple run issue?18:08
morgani know 88 wasn't.18:08
ayoungmorgan, that may be18:08
morganok lets close 91 as "invalid"18:08
ayoungwill do18:08
morganif that is the case.18:08
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ayoungI'll past in the chat fragment18:08
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morganyeah, migrations are not always idempotent18:09
stevemareasiest way to close bugs -- mark them as invalid18:09
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samueldmqI thought we had a job running with other dbs e.g postgress18:09
stevemarsamueldmq: we do, but the originator has had the same db since havana18:10
samueldmqshould be good to have with the dbs we are supposed to support18:10
morgansamueldmq: we do. the issue with 88 isn't related to pgsql, it just happens that the first person to upgrade was on pgsql18:10
stevemarhe has all sorts of constraints that we may not look for now, since we squashed migrations18:10
morganthe lesson learned here is "do not assume the constraint/index names are known, always programatically find them"18:10
samueldmqmorgan: ++18:10
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henrynashmorgan: so that is a real change…we should add this to developemnt.rst18:11
samueldmqis he trying to upgrade havana -> liberty?18:11
shalehhenrynash: I was thinking the same thing18:11
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stevemarsamueldmq: no, every release he does the db migration18:11
morganhenrynash: i think we should prob. add to developing.rst - it's not really a "change" it's something we kindof ignored in the past18:11
stevemarhe's been running the same deployment since havana :)18:11
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henrynashmorgan: agreed18:11
ayoungDO we have an upgrade path from Havana?18:11
morganand if he hits it with a havana deploy... this bug is likely to hit a significant number of deploys18:12
ayoungAnyway, he had 8 users in his database...I think he's going to be OK18:12
samueldmqstevemar: oh, that's good he's been running since there18:12
henrynashayoung: not directly18:12
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morganayoung: it's not direct - it's "if you deployed havana and updated through current"18:12
morganhavan -> mitaka directly is not supported18:12
stevemarayoung: he upgrades his db every 6 months... but his initial db is from havana18:12
morganso anyone who hasn't done a wipe/redeploy from scratch since havana would be hit by this bug18:13
ayoungok...anyway, I think he got this error trying to debug the other, and doing so by hand18:13
morganregardless of the db (except HP cause mongo)18:13
samueldmqstevemar: so some constraints have the old names ?18:13
stevemarsamueldmq: likely18:13
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samueldmqstevemar: I didn't quite catch the issue ... maybe we mad a mistake in our migrations ?18:13
stevemarsamueldmq: maybe the constraints were renamed in the squash, who knows18:13
samueldmqstevemar: like we intended to change the constraint but didn't ..18:13
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ayoungwe good?18:13
morganstevemar: the constraints were named differently depending on if they were automatically named or explicitly named18:13
samueldmqstevemar: yes, squash is something very very hard to do18:14
bknudsonit's probably sqlalchemy changed how it assigns names.18:14
samueldmqstevemar: do we really need to do it ?18:14
morganstevemar: and that automatic name is different based on sql-alchemy, mysql versions, pgsql versions, etc18:14
samueldmqbknudson: maybe, good point18:14
henrynash…and the squash removes the old code where the constaint was created by hand18:14
stevemarsamueldmq: ^18:14
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morgansamueldmq: the squash is to make upgrading / maintaingin migrations with oslo.db updates easier.18:14
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morganbasically we had a ot of cruft that did things the "old" way and likely this bug would have still occured as we fixed migrations to be more modern18:15
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morgansince the code would have had to be significant refactored anyway18:15
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bknudsonthe reason nova started squashing was because their unit tests were taking forever.18:15
morganbknudson: that too.18:15
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samueldmqmaybe we should put explicit names on everything18:16
samueldmqnot even trust sqlalchemy naming18:16
morgansamueldmq: we do now.18:16
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morgandon't expect a name to be known still18:16
morganprogramatically find it18:16
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morganit prevents typos in names from impacting your migrations/wedging things/etc18:17
samueldmqmorgan: makes sense18:17
stevemarso, please review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298402/ and if someone wants to write unit tests, go ahead :)18:17
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stevemari'm slammed in meetings all afternoon, but if no one picks it up, i may18:17
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morganif no one writes unit tests, i'll plan to do it tomorrow.18:18
morganor tonight18:18
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stevemari think morgan is busy too18:18
morgani just can't commit to doing it until then18:18
stevemaryeah, understandable18:18
samueldmqI can do it18:18
stevemarokie dokie, i think we beat this horse enough18:18
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stevemar#topic cleaning up identity.core18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "cleaning up identity.core (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:18
stevemarrderose: ^18:18
stevemaryou're up!18:18
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rderoseIn working on shadow users, one thing that I noticed was that the backends for identity were referencing code in the core.18:19
rderoseFor example, sql and ldap backends were calling the filter_user() method in the core.py18:19
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rderoseTo me, this is probablematic for a couple reasons.18:19
rderoseSeparation of concerns.  The core needs to know about the backend interface in order to dynamically load the plugins, but the backends shouldn't know anything about the core or other higher level modules.18:19
rderoseThe core (manager) is concerned with business logic, while the backends (drivers) are concerned with saving/retrieving data from the backend.18:19
bknudsonother programming languages don't try to put a bunch of classes in one file.18:20
rderoseThe second issue is circular dependency. Backend code could reference code in the core, as well as other higher level modules inside identity, and those methods could call methods in the backend; thus creating a circular dependency.18:20
henrynashredrose: is it just that the manager is being used as a useful place to have shared code18:20
rderoseMy recommendation is to move the interface code out of core.py and into a separate module under backend, e.g.18:20
ayoungthat is a Newton thing18:20
samueldmqhenrynash: ++18:20
shalehbknudson: if by "other" you mean Java. Sure :-) but most allow it.18:20
rderose- backend/interface.py or backend/base.py18:21
ayoungso...core is supposed to be an interface.18:21
rderoseThat way both the core and backends only depend on the abstraction.  The design would be more maintainable, less tightly coupled.18:21
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ayoungthe circular deps are an artefact that we put the interface into the core file18:21
morganredrobot: so manage should be the only one that should ever call -> driver (core)18:21
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rderosehenrynash: it creates a dependency from the backend to the core18:21
morgannot redrobot, rderose18:21
ayounga driver should be able to call another driver, and cycles should not be an issue.  We could split the driver interface out of core18:22
henrynashredrose: sure, understand the issue18:22
shalehseems reasonable. What is the negative?18:22
morganayoung: no. a driver should never call another driver18:22
rderoseayoung ++18:22
morganayoung: ever18:22
stevemari always found it a bit weird that the manager and the interface were in the same spot18:22
morganayoung: a drive should be allowed to call a manager method18:22
rderosemorgain: agreed18:22
bknudsonhow can a driver call another driver?18:22
ayoungmorgan, so we have places where, when we delete a user, we clean up role assignments.18:23
ayoungThat suff should be in maanger18:23
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ayoungnot sure why we still have vestiges18:23
morganayoung: manager -> manager is typically where we have had it18:23
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rderosemorgan: but a driver shouldn't call a manager method (circular dependency)18:23
knikollawhy would a driver need to call another driver?18:23
henrynashredrtose: if you agree that a driver can call a manager method….isn’t that creating the dependency you are concerned about?18:23
morganwe've done a lot of cleanup on that front18:23
amakarovmorgan, ++ What if we want one backend be SQL and the other - KVS?18:23
rderosehenrynash: didn't agree with that part18:23
henrynashredrose: ok, thought not!18:23
morganactually... where are we having a driver -> manager call?18:23
rderoseamakarov: both sql and kvs will depend on the abstraction; not the core18:24
morganbecause iirc i did a ton of work to make sure all cross-manager calls were in the manager layer18:24
amakarovmorgan, I've thied to find an example of it myself without success18:24
ayoungrderose, I'll give you a codre review on that one...lets leave it at that18:24
samueldmqdrivers should not be able to call managers18:24
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samueldmqthey don't perform business logic18:24
rderosesql and ldap both call filter_user() in the core18:24
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morgansamueldmq: yeah sorry, you are right18:24
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morganrderose: that should be moved then18:24
bknudsonthe backends shouldn't have been calling filter_user anyways18:24
morganfilter_user shouldn't be on the manager18:24
bknudsonit should be the manager that handles filtering user18:24
morganif the driver needs to call it18:24
ayoungI don't want identity/backends/common18:24
rderoseayoung: why not, it's only common to the backend18:25
morganif it is business logic, it should be in the manager layer18:25
bknudsonthe drivers don't have a way to call the manager18:25
morganbknudson: ++18:25
ayoungrderose, there should be nothing common to the drivers18:25
stevemaryeah, not big on the common file18:25
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ayoungall the common code should be in manager18:25
ayoungif there is common code between LDAP and SQL we are doing it wrong18:25
bknudsonyou'd have to pass the manager into the driver in order to be able to call methods on it18:25
morganayoung: or they are functions that exist elsewhere18:26
henrynashbknudson: ++18:26
morganayoung: because they are truely more generic.18:26
rderoseayoung: drivers shouldn't call manager methods.  we don't need a dependency between driver and manager18:26
morganrderose: right, so make the manager do the filter18:26
ayoungOK, this one is on my radar. rderose we can work through this.  Want to move on?18:26
rderosedriver only needs to depend on the abstraction18:26
morganrderose: i think is the simple solution18:26
morganor, .filter_user is a base method on the driver parent class18:26
morganand the drivers are allowed to call self.filter_user18:27
ayoungthis is too big for a meeting.18:27
knikollamorgan, that would be my suggestion. filter_user should be a base method18:27
morganrderose: you are 100% right, drivers don't call managers18:27
morganmanagers call drivers18:27
rderosemorgan: okay, but still would like to remove the backends interface out of core18:27
stevemarrderose: you feel like you've god enough to move forward?18:27
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rderosestevemar: yeah18:27
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stevemarrderose: cool :)18:28
morganrderose: shuffling location of driver interface is 100% fine (just leave a stub with deprecation warning for a cycle)18:28
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rderosehave a patch out there, please send me your feedback18:28
stevemaranyone interested, please comment on  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29614018:28
bknudsonmoving the backends interface out of core makes sense just to clean up the dependencies.18:28
rderosebknudson: sounds good18:28
stevemarnext topic18:28
morganrderose: suggest: <subsystem>.base or .driver_base18:28
stevemar#topic summit topics18:28
*** openstack changes topic to "summit topics (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:28
ayoungrderose, don't go crazy on this18:28
ayoungsamueldmq, can you publish your POC for Policy from last summer?18:29
rderoseayoung: okay :)18:29
stevemari see i forgot to add the link18:29
stevemar#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-newton-summit-brainstorm18:29
ayoungIdidn't see it in a review18:29
samueldmqayoung: well, I am not sure I still have things18:29
ayoungsamueldmq, yes you do...18:29
samueldmqayoung: most patches are abandoned, but I can try to retrieve18:29
bretoni have an alternative suggestion for dynamic policy18:29
samueldmqayoung: what do you want specifically ? the code ?18:29
ayoungsamueldmq, I didn't see the abandoned ones18:29
ayoungsamueldmq, yes18:29
bretonlets use Apache Fortress18:29
ayoungthe POC for the middleware18:29
morganbreton: worth discussing at the summit for sure18:30
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ayoungbreton, yo udon't realize the amount of inertia in Openstack18:30
bretoni know that we already had a chat about it, but there was a chat with Fortress author and a company that backs Fortress and they might be willing to implement things required for keystone18:30
bretonlike group-based authorization (for federated use case)18:30
samueldmqso we kill keystone things other than authn ? and use apache fortress?18:30
ayoungbreton, I'm not going to hold my breath18:30
ayoungFortress is a completely different topic.18:31
bretoni won't be at the summit, but there will be a person whom i will delegate the task of explaining how things work, with a POC18:31
jamielennoxthe fortress author was in atlanta pushing this, but things have moved significantly since then18:31
ayoungRIght now, we need to figure out how to sync policy files18:31
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ayoungFortress will just lead to nothing being done.  Nothing against the technology18:31
ayoungthe problems are on the OS side18:31
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ayoungIts complete mismatch..lets not go that way18:32
amakarovayoung, why not?18:32
ayoungbelieve me, if we could build a system around LDAP, I would have done so18:32
stevemari think we're better off making authorization pluggable, so people could use fortress if they want18:32
amakarovbreton, we need a spec :)18:32
stevemarbut we don't have to enforce it18:32
ayoungstevemar, ok, stop18:32
ayoungwe havea very real topic to discuss18:33
bretonthere is no problem of syncing policy files in fortress ;)18:33
ayoungand it is not Fortress18:33
ayoungor any other rewrite18:33
stevemardon't leave us waiting in suspense?18:33
ayoungstevemar, look at the etherpad from theagenda18:33
ayoungwe have two approaches we can take right now18:33
ayoung1 use Puppet etc to manage policy18:33
ayoung2 distribute via Keystone18:33
ayoungI kinda like 2,18:34
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ayoungand we did already approve the spec18:34
bretonthere is also #318:34
* breton ducks18:34
jamielennoxI kinda like 118:34
morganayoung: i am in the CMS manages policy files camp18:34
morganjamielennox: ++18:34
ayoungso...I can go with either...18:35
ayoungboth have pros and cons which I tried to lay out18:35
jamielennoxand i know i got overriden on this previously, but the old dynamic policy spec assumed there would be a lot of continuous updates which doesn't seem to be the case anymore18:35
ayoungso,  if we go puppet, here is the deal18:35
morganjamielennox: ++18:35
samueldmqayoung: if 1, what do we do ? make our policy API usable and advise people to use it ,18:35
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jamielennoxso if you're updating something infrequently i'd  rather not have hundreds of api nodes polling into keystone18:35
ayoungif we make a change to a policy file, we have a little bit of a sync workflow to clear up18:35
ayoungsamueldmq, that is one choice, yes18:35
shalehsamueldmq: +++++18:35
ayoungthe reason to stick with the policy API even if we update via Puppet is for queryability18:36
jamielennoxpeople have the tooling for this and update this file and bounce the appropriate service is really easy18:36
jamielennoxbonus points if you improve oslo policy to reload the file if it notices the change18:36
ayoungjamielennox, that was my feeling, which is why I backed off dynamic18:36
morganjamielennox: yep.18:36
shalehayoung: true. It would be nice to know what a user/role/etc could do currently18:36
stevemarjamielennox: it already does18:36
ayoungso, what would the workflow look like18:36
jamielennoxstevemar: awesome18:36
ayoungright now,  do we expect peole to have an external policy repo?18:36
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morganjamielennox: oslo.policy doing a mtime check and reload isn't bad.18:36
ayoungsomewhere that Puppet syncs out of?18:36
* ayoung using puppet as shorthand. means all the deployment tools18:37
morganayoung: i think most people template in the CMS18:37
jamielennoxmorgan: was think inotify/fnotify/whatever the currently thing is18:37
morganjamielennox: same thing18:37
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morganjamielennox: implementation detail18:37
shalehayoung: where it comes from is irrelevant. Being able to ask what the current policy allows would be nice.18:37
ayoungmorgan, right now, in RDO I have a blank slate.  They only use the RPM based policy defaults.18:37
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ayoungshaleh, it is not irrelevant.  It is part of the workflow18:37
ayoungshaleh, because we have a repo18:37
ayoungand pulling policy out of the Keystone policy API is a viable approach, but does it work with Puppet?18:38
morganayoung: ok i think what shaleh is saying is it doesn't matter what is picked "central repo, templated, etc"18:38
morganayoung: the workflow could be anything at this point18:38
samueldmqwhy not just write out a tool that runs on the policy files and is able to list user capabilities18:38
henrynashI think the issue is that while we can write some tools that valide policy, if we are not in control of distribution we can never (easlily) preovide tools that set poliy to some customer requirement18:38
ayoungsamueldmq, did that already18:38
shalehsamueldmq: that is a possibility18:38
shalehsamueldmq: but it is somewhat limiting18:38
samueldmqwe didn't even needed to force people to use keystone API with their CMS18:38
ayoungso, we have a bit of a mapping problem, too18:39
ayoungthe Keystone API maps policy to endpoints18:39
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jamielennoxhenrynash: by we there you mean keystone and i think thats a distribution problem not a keystone problem18:39
ayoungbut a single server might implement multiple endpoints18:39
shalehhenrynash: as long as Keystone is provided a policy file, the service side is happy. Where it comes from does not matter to keystone18:39
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ayoungand we could have a breakage where the policy file is different for endpoints on the same server18:39
ayoungI'd like to find a way to lock this down18:39
ayoungand then ,either puppet pulls from Keystone, or Puppet pushes to the keystone policy api18:40
ayoungI need to give openstack-puppet some guidance here18:40
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morganayoung: what does the push to the keystone-api do? [what is the reason for the push] - just outline it18:40
samueldmqayoung: as jamielennox and shaleh said above, maybe we shuld just not care about htis18:40
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shalehayoung: what exactly is your concern here?18:40
jamielennoxayoung: i think that's out of our control18:40
crinkleit's easier for puppet to work with files than REST but it can reasonably do either18:40
henrynashshaleh, jamielennox: when we have 100s of fine granined roles, some common between services, some not, some tied to endpoints, some not……I think deployers will need a set of tools very different than we can provide today18:40
ayoungmorgan, for queryability:18:40
morgancrinkle: ++18:40
samueldmqprovide the api, and let the cms decide where to put each thing18:40
ayoungwhat policy file is endpoiunt xyz using18:40
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ayoungHorizon needs that18:41
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morganso lets take a step back.18:41
shalehayoung: why does Horizon need it?18:41
morganwhat if... what if...18:41
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morganwe use the prefix bit like we have support for18:41
* shaleh smacks samueldmq 18:41
ayoungshaleh, it modifes the UI based on the capabilities of the user.  It uses policy to do that18:41
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morganand we can recommend folks deploy a single policy file ?18:41
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ayoungmorgan, too big a jump18:41
ayoungtried that already18:42
ayoungand It is a good idea18:42
shalehayoung: because we fail to provide an api that lets people ask what is ALLOWED not what is in a file18:42
morganbut we already do that today?18:42
jamielennoxmorgan: yea, not sure how you slurp it together from all the services18:42
morganwith ['compute']18:42
ayoungmorgan, there are conflicts on the internal rules18:42
ayoung"is_admin" for example18:42
samueldmqjamielennox: ++ that's the issue we hit when trying the unified policy thing18:42
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ayoungmorgan, it is a distinct possiility, but remember, big tent18:42
ayoungso doing this for nova and glance is do-able18:43
bknudsonon a somewhat related note there's a proposal from nova to have the default rules in their code base, and then generate their sample policy.json from the code.18:43
morgani think this goes back to the services defining thier policy in code (default) and a dingle override.18:43
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ayoungbknudson, I think that is OK18:43
bknudsonsimilar to how config options are handled18:43
morganbknudson: yeah that is the nova thing.18:43
samueldmqin some cases we can't even know what a user is able to do by looking at the policy18:43
samueldmqlike nova has some scope checks in the code18:43
ayoungbknudson, I actually like that their approach gives a sane "here is where you find the project on the VM object"18:43
jamielennoxbknudson: i can see the advantage to that18:43
morgansamueldmq: scope checks are weird regardless.18:43
ayoungthe scope checks are what we want to be able to tweak18:43
ayounger...role checks18:44
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morganayoung: yeah18:44
ayoungthe role checks are what we want to be able to tweak18:44
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samueldmqso if we only want to look at the roles18:44
samueldmqit should be very easy to write a tool for that18:44
samueldmqshouldn't it ,18:44
ayoungso...we are agreed that the general approach is to use Puppet etc, and that we will lay down support for making that clear?18:44
morganayoung: i think it's the best option18:44
morganayoung: it means we can leverage tools already existing18:45
shalehpeople like policy in CMS18:45
bknudsonI think the deploy tool is the best way to distribute policy files18:45
henrynashmorgan, ayoung: as you know, I really don’t like that we are defining scope checks in code, unless they can be totally overriden by the policy file…..too restrictive18:45
stevemarayoung: i'm in support of helping the cms tools18:45
shalehwht changed since last week?18:45
morganayoung: and what shaleh said18:45
ayoungmorgan, OK.  So, what happens if someone uploads a policy file to Keystone18:45
ayoungshould that be definitive, or is that an error?18:45
morganayoung: i'd deprecate the API18:45
ayoungshould the CMS pull from Keystone?18:45
stevemarayoung: same thing that happens today? not much18:45
ayoungmorgan, we can't18:45
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ayoungmorgan, we needthe queryability still18:45
morganayoung: we can.18:45
samueldmqwhy not a tool ? :(18:46
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ayoungmorgan, no, remember, we don't control all the tools18:46
shalehkeystone could easily server /etc/keystone/policy.json18:46
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morganayoung: what neess to query policy18:46
morganayoung: lets define that18:46
samueldmqvs API, maybe a tool is better for a CMS than an API is18:46
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shalehget /v3/policy18:46
morganshaleh: hold up18:46
ayoungmorgan, anythign that needs to know a-priori what a user can do.  Any user interface18:46
morganwhat things need to inspect/query policy directly18:46
ayoungmorgan, as I said, Horizon does.  Right now it holds it in place.18:47
morganok lets start from horizon18:47
ayoungNow, we could have Puppet sync to there as well18:47
bknudsonyou could ask keystone what the policy is, but another instance of keystone might give a different answer anyways.18:47
shalehayoung: we need to try and resolve Horizon's need18:47
henrynashmorgan: how about auditing if the a given security policy has been implemented18:47
morgani think if oslo.policy can provide the queribility18:47
ayoungits just not a very friendly way , as it makes Horizon special18:47
bknudsonthe cms can push the policy to horizon too18:47
shalehayoung: Horizon parsing our JSON is nuts18:47
ayoungshaleh, no it is not.  Please.18:47
morganit would be easy to say CMS pushes to the interface location18:47
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morganayoung: i was trying to make sure i understood it was horizon/ui not osc and cli tools18:48
morganayoung: which is why i asked what needed to query18:48
jamielennoxshaleh: horizon should be using oslo_policy, oslo_policy can provide this18:48
ayoungmorgan, I'm also thinking 3rd party integration, and compliance18:48
shalehjamielennox: agreed18:48
ayoungjamielennox, and it does18:48
morganif it's "server" applications, we *can* expose something via oslo_policy from disk18:48
jamielennoxok, so not nuts18:48
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morganor whatever backend18:49
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morgani just am making sure we have a clear scope18:49
morganthats all18:49
shalehjamielennox: I still say Horizon parsing it is a hack. What they really want to know is "what can user X do".18:49
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ayoungok...so is the best practice: external file repo, puppet updates, puppet uploads to Keystone?18:49
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shalehthey have to infer it from our policy which means we always break Horizon18:49
morganshaleh: you have a bigger issue too18:49
shalehthere should be a better way.18:49
jamielennoxshaleh: everyone has to infer that from policy18:49
morganshaleh: some endpoints are different than others18:49
morganshaleh: and could be considered "compute" =/18:50
shalehmorgan: understood18:50
ayoungUnderstand, if Keystone is not the ssystem of record, we have very little control over policy in the future.  We cannot autogenerate, merge, manage, etc18:50
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ayoungthe implie_roles will not be expanded in the policy files, for example18:50
ayoungwe can't make common rules for multiple servers to consume18:50
ayoungI mean, we can, just with offline tools18:50
ayoungand maybe that is the desired approach18:50
morganayoung: i know the answer,but is keystone the right place for that? (the policy query)?18:51
bknudsonwe don't have any say in what puppet does?18:51
ayoungbknudson, I think we have a little18:51
ayoungbknudson, puppet-keystone listens to us18:51
henrynashayoung: I concur….are we really saying that keystone should not be the system of record for policy?  Taht shuuld be teh conceptual question18:51
ayoungif we workwith them18:51
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ayounghenrynash, what is you opinion?18:52
bknudsonpuppet might not be too happy to push something that's not a part of gate testing18:52
henrynashayoung: I think keystone should be the system of record for policy18:52
ayounghenrynash, me too18:52
morganhenrynash: i think making keystone the system of record is going to be as much (if not more work)18:52
bknudsonit didn't sound like nova wanted to give up control of their policy files18:53
morganand will continue to lag in adoption even if we do everything right. look at introducing new things in keystone and how hard it is to garner the adoption18:53
shalehbknudson: agreed18:53
morganand other projects do not wa... what bknudson said18:53
ayoungbknudson, I'vetalked it over with them.  THere wre two distinct issues18:53
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morganI think the best solutuon is to double down on the CMS tools - it's where people (and projects) seem to like policy files.18:53
ayoungone is that the binding of project to resource is a a Nova decision18:53
henrynashmorgan: that maybe true….supporting old driver version is a SHED load of work, but we diecided to do it since it was the right thing to do (I hope)….we should answer this as to teh correct conceptual answer…and if it’s loat sof work, then we need to plan it over many releases18:53
ayoungIdeally, that would be done by code, as policy.json does not buy anything18:54
morganhenrynash: the issue is i think adoption would just stall permanently18:54
ayoungthe other, though, is what is the intention of the PAI.18:54
ayoungIs it meant to be used by end users or not18:54
ayoungso, while they should give good defaults, that is what the deployers should be able to customize18:55
stevemarhenrynash: i'm with morgan and bknudson on this one, adoption is so slow right now, we're better off helping the CMS tools in the short run18:55
henrynashmorgan: maybe hard, yes, but if the conceptual answer is correct, (and we see the road blocks coming down the road), then it will only be a matter of time18:55
bknudsondeployers do customize their policies18:55
ayoungstevemar, I have people writing custom poliucy at customer sites.  They need "read only" roles18:55
shalehayoung: ++18:55
jamielennoxayoung: we have that spec18:55
jamielennoxwhich i haven't updated18:55
morganhenrynash: i disagree. i don't think it will ever be a good adoption rate internal to openstack.18:55
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stevemarayoung: which is... what jamielennox just said ^18:55
ayoungjamielennox, and how are we going to distribute it. Especially if Nova hardcodes the role?  They can't18:56
bknudsonwe haven't seen a lot of pushback on the cross-project policy spec. so maybe things can move in a better direction18:56
morganhenrynash: unless we address the clear distribution story first. which CMS tools are already there.18:56
jamielennoxnova's not hardcoding the rules, AIUI they want to generate the policy file in a similar way they generate a config file18:56
jamielennoxrather than maintain it manually18:56
ayoungmorgan, so I'm fine with CMS as the distro mechanism, but that is not a complete solution18:56
stevemarjamielennox: theres some hardcoding going on in projects18:57
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jamielennoxwhich i think is fine because it means it doesn't matter so much if your CMS policy gets out of sync a little because at least there is a real default18:57
morgani think the best option is improve it, make it so distribution is clear, we have the tools to show how policy works, and supply the interface for horizon [which will still be semi-icky, btu eh it'll be better]18:57
jamielennoxstevemar: right - but that's just wrong18:57
morganonce we're there, moving to a more direct api driven system or not would be easier.18:57
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ayoungjamielennox, that is my understanding, too. So In my view, the nova policy file would be the starting point for custom policy in a deployment.18:57
henrynashmorgan: if we just provide anothe CMS - I agree, few will use it, we have to show some of the advantages of keystone being the CMS….18:57
morganhenrynash: as it stands i don't think there is one18:57
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ayoungok..so I'll pursue Keystone<->puppet sync18:58
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stevemarayoung: you and crinkle can swap reviews18:58
shalehayoung: why is it bi-directional?18:58
ayoungI suspect that the right approach is to validate policy offline, long before you touch puppet or Keystone anyway18:58
henrynashayoung: is there a speci of that? I’m not quite sure what that means?18:58
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ayounghenrynash, there is an etherpad right now18:58
morganayoung: i also want to push on the oslo_policy being able to do the lifting for "can you do X" more easily18:58
jamielennoxayoung: ++ i'm in favor or way better tooling18:59
bknudsondo you think puppet would accept handling policy files themselves so they can have a read-only role?18:59
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ayoung#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tripleo-policy-updates18:59
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stevemar1 minute left18:59
jamielennoxso my concern with puppet managing this sort of thing is that policy files get out of date in the CMS18:59
ayoungjamielennox, right18:59
ayoungthere is always that risk18:59
ayounganyway...I have the general answer I was looking for.19:00
jamielennoxso maybe the fastest solve for that is a .d dir or some way to layer these files that offsets that19:00
bknudsonour sample policy.json can get out of sync with the code, too.19:00
ayoungIf you have comments or proposals, update the etherpad19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
morganstupid question.. what if we have generated policy.json (as nova asked) that on commit publishes to a shared repo19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 29 19:00:27 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-29-18.00.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-29-18.00.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-29-18.00.log.html19:00
fungiinfra team, assemble!19:00
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morganfungi: oh noes!19:00
stevemarkeystoners, disassemble19:00
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fungitopics proposed this week by igorbelikov, zaro, hashar, anteaya, yolanda, pabelanger, pleia219:01
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fungifull agenda, so we may not get to all of them but we'll see how far we manage19:01
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clarkbohai sort of semi here19:02
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 29 19:03:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
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sbelous_hi there19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
fungi#topic Announcements19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
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fungi#info Reminder: add summit agenda ideas to the Etherpad19:03
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-newton-summit-planning Newton Summit Planning19:03
fungilet's plan to try to do a little voting on them at next week's meeting19:04
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fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:04
pleia2#info happy second term PTL-ness to fungi :)19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
fungiheh, thanks (i think?)!19:04
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-22-19.02.html19:04
funginone last week19:04
pabelangerfungi: congrats!19:04
fungi#topic Specs approval19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
fungi#info APPROVED: "Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers"19:05
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-zookeeper-workers.html Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers19:05
fungi#info APPROVED: "Stackviz Deployment"19:05
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/deploy-stackviz.html Stackviz Deployment19:05
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fungithose url's _should_ be valid soon ;)19:05
hasharI have missed looking at Zookeeper / Nodepool.  Would Zookeeper be optional ?19:05
fungii approved, but jobs still need to run19:05
hasharas a third party user of Nodepool I have only a single image to build/update.  Just wondering really19:06
jeblairhashar: i believe it would be required, however, it scales down very well, and i anticipate simply running it on the nodepool host will be fine19:06
jeblairhashar: (and will be what we do for quite some time)19:06
fungihashar: the spec proposal (mentioned last week) is at https://review.openstack.org/278777 while we wait for the jobs to finish running/publishing19:06
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fungiif you want to read further19:07
hasharfungi: thanks19:07
hasharjeblair: yeah I guess I will survive and we have some Zookeeper instances already iirc19:07
hasharjeblair: thx ;)19:07
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fungialso, there's still time to get involved! specs are not written in stone (more like silly putty really)19:07
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud19:08
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*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
fungiadded briefly to highlight cody-somerville's awesome weekly status reporting19:08
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zigo(sorry to be late)19:08
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fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-March/004090.html latest infra-cloud status19:09
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funginote that the hardware from former "west" has arrived in houston now19:09
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anteayathat is good news19:09
fungiso maybe we'll have access back for our desired priority hardware shortly and can pick up where we left off at the sprint!19:09
fungi#topic Baremetal instances in Nodepool with Ironic (igorbelikov)19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Baremetal instances in Nodepool with Ironic (igorbelikov) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:10
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igorbelikovhey folks19:10
igorbelikovthis idea was brought up in chat by kozhukalov last week19:10
fungii know this has been brought up many times in the past few years, so i'll let people reiterate the usual concerns19:10
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clarkbI wrotr an email about it19:11
igorbelikovwe really want to integrate our fuel deployment tests with infra, the issue is - we use baremetal nodes to launch a bunch of VMs and deploy openstack19:11
igorbelikovthere are a bunch of limitations we can't overcome yet to span the VMs across multiple baremetalal nodes19:11
igorbelikovand a lot more issues come to mind if we imagine doing it on top of a bunch VMs requested from Nodepool19:11
igorbelikovso we discussed this internally and while we still will continue to move forward to overcome this limitations19:11
igorbelikovthe most realistically looking way is to use Ironic and its baremetal driver in Nova, so Nodepool will be able to request baremetal nodes without any serious changes to Nodepool logic and current infra workflow19:11
clarkbhard to dig up on phone but that should cover thr details19:11
igorbelikovand I wanted to get some input from infra on this general idea19:12
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angdraugclarkb: do you remember date or subject key words?19:12
fungiigorbelikov: how do we upload images to that?19:12
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fungijust curious if your plans include glance19:12
igorbelikovbaremetal nodes will be able to use dib-images19:12
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igorbelikovfungi: so basically the current workflow for nodepool vms, but with baremetal19:12
fungialso running untrusted code on your servers has the opportunity to taint them if anyone proposes a patch which, say, uploads malicious firmware19:13
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igorbelikovfungi: fuel deployment tests will work just fine with restricted access from jenkins user. It doesn’t completely solve all security issues, but this can be discussed further19:14
clarkbangdraug: was on infra list and adrian otto was on the thread19:14
fungii think that thread was having to do with bare metal testing for magnum or something?19:14
fungianyway, yes it's a suggestion which has come up multiple times, as i've said, from multiple parties19:15
clarkbbut should cover general ironic + nodepool19:15
clarkband so far no one has given us a workable endpoint or attempted to19:15
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igorbelikovclarkb: thanks, I’ll dig up the thread, sadly I missed it19:15
angdraug#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2015-September/003138.html19:16
yolandafrom my perspective, once we have infra cloud up and running, there can be opportunity to start moving it19:16
fungii can see how it would be possible to implement, but more generally the usual needs for multiple separate environments, making sure the clouds providing those resources are staffed and maintained to keep them running, et cetera are typical concerns we have over any special regions in nodepool as well19:16
yolandadeploy nova + ironic, use dib images, and figure how to deal with security problems19:16
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fungithe current goal with infra-cloud is to provide virtual machines, not baremetal test nodes, but it's possible that could act as an additional available region for those tests if we decided that was something we should implement19:17
fungi"figure out how to deal with security problems" seems like a lot of handwaving to me19:17
igorbelikovwe’re ready to work on required infra-cloud change for that to happen19:17
yolandaa spec should be needed of course19:17
fungiit's a hard problem, and i know the tripleo and ironic crowd have struggled with it for a few years already, so looping them in early in such a conversation would be wise19:18
yolandaand i see that as next steps once we have a stable infra cloud19:18
igorbelikovyolanda: a spec is a must for this, sure:)19:18
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pabelangerI can understand the need for igorbelikov wanting bare metal nodes upstream, but I would be curious to see what else is needed to migrate more of ci.fuel-infra.org upstream personally.19:18
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angdraugpabelanger: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-November/079284.html19:19
fungianyway, i guess my point is that "modify nodepool to support ironic" is the simplest part of this. having good answers for the _hard_ parts first is what we'll need to be able to decide if we should do it19:19
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yolandafungi, from our experience downstream using baremetal, we focused on two things: code review is very important, to ensure that no code is malicious. And also, periodical redeploys of baremetal servers, to ensure they are clean19:19
igorbelikovpabelanger: the only things non-migrateble right now are deployment tests, we’re working on moving everything else upstream19:19
yolandanodepool supporting ironic should be a matter of using the right flavors. The complicated part should be the nova + ironic integration...19:20
fungiyolanda: reviewing code before jobs run is also a significant departure from our current workflow/tooling so that's not a solution to be taken lightly19:20
igorbelikovyolanda: periodical redeploys fit perfectly in the picture19:20
* crinkle would like to see infra-cloud turned back on and providing reliable nodepool resources before thinking about new uses for the hardware19:20
pabelangerangdraug: igorbelikov: thanks, will read up on it after meeting19:20
pabelangercrinkle: ++19:20
fungii am in complete agreement there/ let's table any discussion of what else infra-cloud could be useful for until we're using it for what we first wanted19:21
fungithanks for the reality check, crinkle19:21
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yolandayep, that should be a next step once we have the hardware on place and redeploy again. But I think that we have this possibility for the mid-term19:22
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angdraugbtw there's a sizeable pool of hw behind ci.f-i.org, just saying )19:22
fungiokay, so it seems like this is a topic which would be better moved to a ml thread, we can loop in people with experience in the problem areas and determine if there's a good solution that fits our tools and workflow, and make sure concerns brought up in previous iterations of the same discussion are addressed to our satisfaction19:22
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fungiangdraug: one sizable pool is insufficient. if it goes offline then any jobs which can only run there won't run, and projects depending on those jobs will be blocked19:23
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angdraugfungi: do you think it's too early to start a spec?19:23
fungiwe've seen this many times already with tripleo and are strongly considering switching them to third-party ci19:23
anteayafungi: I recall you made the same point in the nfv ci thread on the -dev mailing list19:24
fungibecause trying to showhorn their special cloud in which only runs their tests and has no redundancy turns out not to be a great fit for our systems19:24
angdrauggood point, one more concern to address on ML/in spec19:24
fungier, shoehorn19:24
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angdraugthat's exactly what we want to avoid19:24
angdraugright now we're using that hw in our own special way19:24
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angdraugwe want this to become a generic pool of hw for any openstack ci jobs19:24
fungiso, yes you can start with a spec but i think it may be easier to have an ml thread to work out bigger questions before you bother settling on a set of solutions to propose in a spec19:24
igorbelikovthere are actually 2 pools in different geographical locations, but it’s still a good point19:24
AJaegerso, team up with tripleo and have two pools to share ;)19:25
angdraugAJaeger: +1 :)19:25
fungiwell, tripleo's environment would need a complete redesign from scratch to be generally usable anyway19:25
angdraugso does ours19:25
fungitheir model with brokers and precreated networks is very specific to teh design of their jobs19:26
AJaegerah ;(19:26
pabelangerAJaeger: fungi: I'm hoping to talk with the tripleo team in austin to see what can be done moving forward19:26
fungiokay, meeting's half over, 6 topics to go. need to move on19:26
angdraugsorry, thanks for giving us the time!19:26
igorbelikovok, moving this to mail thread, thanks!19:26
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fungithanks angdraug, igorbelikov!19:27
fungi#topic Gerrit tuning (zaro)19:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Gerrit tuning (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:27
fungizaro: saw you had more details on the ml thread this week!19:27
zaroanybody get a chance to read the link19:27
anteaya#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-March/004077.html19:27
zaroanyways yeah, performance is way better after running git gc19:28
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AJaegerzaro: yes, thanks for testing this!19:28
zaroso was wondering if anybody had further questions about it?19:28
anteayacan we look closer at git push origin HEAD:refs/for/master19:28
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anteayathe stats for user19:28
zarowhat do you mean look closer?19:28
anteayabefore is 5 seconds the after is 11s19:29
jeblairhas anyone looked into server performance with the resulting repositories?19:29
AJaegerzaro: How can we run this? Is there a gerrit setting or is that manual? And while git gc runs, is the repo available for usage?19:29
anteayafor user that looks like it taeks twice as long to me19:29
jeblair(not only gerrit, but cgit/git)19:29
fungii haven't looked into it. sounds like zaro is the only one who's run comparative stats so far19:30
zaroanteaya: i didn't notice that, but that's very odd result.  i 'm not sure why the descrepency there.19:30
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fungibut i agree the server impact (gerrit and cgit) is still a missing piece19:30
anteayazaro: okay, I question it19:30
abregmanzaro: we tried it in our downstream environment and it really made difference for some our projects. so thanks for that.19:31
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zaroAJaeger: i ran it manually with the nova repo provided by jeblair19:32
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zaroAJaeger: i only ran locally on my own machine.19:32
anteayaabregman: if you are able to collect any statistics and share them as a reply to that mailing list post, that would be wonderful19:32
fungisince git gc (or jgit gc for that matter) is by definition a destructive action, it's not something we'll be easily able to recover from if we later discover an adverse impact somewhere, hence the need for thorough testing19:32
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hasharI can't remember if I mentionned it on the list but Gerrit upload-pack ends up sending all refs/changes/*  to the client doing a git fetch :(19:33
abregmananteaya: sure, np19:33
zaroAJaeger: i supposed you can do the same19:33
anteayaabregman: thank you19:33
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AJaegerzaro: I meant: Run on gerrit itself19:33
anteayaabregman: include commands run and as much detail as you can19:33
abregmanack :)19:33
fungi#link https://tarballs.openstack.org/ci/nova.git.tar.bz2 a snapshot of the full nova repo from review.openstack.org's filesystem19:34
hasharand somehow the git fetch is way faster over https compared to ssh (on my setup  and using Wikimedia Gerrit 2.8 .. ).  Long food: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T103990#214415719:34
fungi#link https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T103990#214415719:35
fungithanks for the details hashar19:35
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hasharfeel free to poke me in your mornings if you want me to elaborate19:35
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zaroAJaeger: most things are cloning from git.o.o not review.o.o so i just tested directly.19:36
hasharat least on my setup using https for fetch solved it.  I should try on your nova installation19:36
fungizaro: so anyway, it sounds like we're a lot closer to seeing performance benefit for this but more comfort about the potential impact to the server side of things is preferred before we decide it's entirely safe19:36
zarowhat would provide more comfort?19:37
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anteayaserver performance with the resulting repositories is what jeblair has asked for19:37
fungizaro: indications that performance on git.o.o or review.o.o (on the servers) will improve or at least remain constant after a git gc (and definitely not get worse)19:38
fungie.g. is it more work for git to serve these after than it was before19:38
fungianyway, continuation on the ml19:39
fungiokay, need to continue pushing through as many of these topics as we can19:39
fungi#topic Status of gerrit replacement node (anteaya, yolanda)19:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Status of gerrit replacement node (anteaya, yolanda) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:39
anteayaokay so on April 11th we commited to doing a thing: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/088985.html19:39
anteayaand my understanding is that yolanda has a node up19:40
yolandai just wanted to confirm that nothing is pending for that node replacement19:40
anteayabeyond that I don't know what the plan is19:40
yolandai created the node, it's on ansible inventory, and it's disabled19:40
fungithis is just a quick check on the existing server replacement schedule, and making sure someone writes up the maintenance plan for it?19:40
anteayabut I think there whould be one19:40
anteayafungi: yes19:40
anteayaI'm away next week19:40
anteayajust want to hear someone is driving this19:40
anteayacan be but doesnt' have to be yolanda19:40
clarkbbasic process is stop review.o.o, copy git repos, index(es), start on new server19:40
fungiwe likely also need a one-week warning e-mail followup to the previous announcement19:41
yolandado we have pre-existing maintenance plans for gerrit?19:41
fungiclarkb: git repos are in cinder now, i believe19:41
clarkboh right19:41
clarkbso thats potentially even easier, unmount, unattach, attach, mount, win19:41
yolandaand db is on trove, so that should be fast19:41
abregmanzaro: did you run git gc --aggressively?19:41
fungiso detach volume from old server, attach to new server, update dns with a short ttl if it hasn't already and then swap dns records right at the start of the outage19:41
yolandai can write an etherpad for it19:42
zaroabregman: no.19:42
yolandaif we don't have any19:42
fungithanks yolanda!19:42
anteayaabregman: we've changed topics, we can continue discussion in the -infra channel19:42
fungi#action yolanda draft a maintenance plan for the gerrit server replacement19:42
anteayathank you19:42
fungidid you also want to send the followup announcement around the one-week mark?19:42
abregmananteaya: oh k, sorry19:42
yolandai will also send a remainder on 4th april19:43
anteayaabregman: no worreis19:43
fungi#action yolanda send maintenance reminder announcement to the mailing list on April 419:43
fungithanks yolanda!19:43
anteayathanks yolanda19:43
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yolandaglad to help :)19:43
fungi#topic Ubuntu Xenial DIBs (pabelanger)19:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Ubuntu Xenial DIBs (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:43
pleia2awesome work on these pabelanger :)19:43
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:ubuntu-xenial+status:open19:43
pabelangerso ubuntu-xenial dibs are working19:43
clarkbpabelanger: including the puppet runs?19:44
pabelangereven tested with nodepool launching to jenkins19:44
pabelangerclarkb: yup19:44
anteaya#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-operating-system-upgrades19:44
pabelangerso, that link above has 1 review that needs merged19:44
pabelangerand we can then turn them on in nodepool19:44
clarkbpabelanger: have you run a devstack-gate reproduce.sh script against one of the images yet?19:44
fungioh, i see i skipped a topic a couple back, i'll thread that one in next (sorry zaro, hashar!)19:44
pabelangersurprisingly is was straightforward19:44
pabelangerclarkb: not yet.19:44
pabelangerclarkb: I can do that later today19:44
hasharfungi: or we can skip git-review and follow up on list19:44
pabelangereither way, out puppet manifests and dib elements works well19:45
pleia2xenial isn't released until april 21st (beta 2 was last thursday), but I don't anticipate any ground-breaking changes between then and now19:45
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pleia2er, now and then19:45
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yolandapabelanger, so not much changes needed right?19:45
anteayagood work19:45
pabelangeryolanda: right, see the topic above for all the patches19:45
clarkbpleia2: ya we can just avoid switching any jobs over until releaes has happened19:45
clarkbpython35 is the other potential place we will see issues19:46
pleia2clarkb: yeah19:46
anteayaxenial ships with 35?19:46
clarkbanteaya: yes19:46
fungii anticipate the py24-py35 transition will be similar to how we did py33-py34 last year19:46
fungier, s/py24/py34/19:46
clarkbfungi: well and we may need to decide if we want to do 34 and 3519:46
clarkbbut yes19:46
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fungiright, we had the luxury last time of considering py3k testing a convenience and dropped it from stable branches so we could just cut over to py3419:47
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fungithough in this case we're not maintaining special platforms just for py34 testing, so there's less incentive to drop it anyway19:48
fungipy33 testing was kinda hacky19:48
sdaguepabelanger: do you have this in a project config somewhere that we could run an early devstack job on to shake out bugs?19:48
AJaegersdague: once all changes by pabelanger merged, see above for review link: Yes19:49
fungithat would be extremely easy to add once we have the patches in to start building images/booting nodes19:49
pabelangerYup, https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:ubuntu-xenial+status:open are the current patches needed to land19:49
pabelangerfungi: indeed19:49
fungiokay, any other questions we need to address on this topic in the meeting before i move on (or rather, back to the topic i unceremoniously skipped earlier)?19:50
pabelangernone here19:50
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fungi#topic git-review release request (zaro, hashar)19:50
*** openstack changes topic to "git-review release request (zaro, hashar) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:50
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zigoFYI, Py35 works perfectly with everything right now.19:50
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-March/004058.html git-review release request19:50
zigo(tested at build time in Sid)19:50
hasharso in short git-review last release is from June 12th 201519:51
zarojust wondering what needs to happen for a release?19:51
zarowhether i can help with that?19:51
hasharI could myself use the optional feature push url to be release.  That lets bypass the creation of an additional remote named "gerrit"19:51
hasharwhich causes folks to fetch from both origin and gerrit remotes when ever they do git remote update19:51
zigoA tag, then ping me to build the package in Debian, then I'll ping Ubuntu ppl?19:51
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hasharso I guess a tag19:51
fungii replied on the ml thread as well, but want to see someone get any remaining bug fixes or test improvements dlushed from the review queue before we tag a new release. we should consider git-review feature frozen for the moment, but can figure out what new features make sense to add once we have the current master state polished and released19:52
hasharon the list one hinted at looking for open change that one might want to get approved before tagging a release19:52
zigoRemember: we have a few days for a freeze exception so that it reaches the next LTS. Do we want that new version in 16.04 ?19:52
clarkbI ran into a bug the other day19:52
clarkbgit review -d fetched a patch from a different git repo19:52
clarkbI swear it used to fail on that19:52
hasharzigo: yup would be good to have it in before Ubuntu freeze19:52
zigohashar: *IF* there's no regressions! :)19:53
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fungiclarkb: that would definitely count as a regression, please get up with me later if you need help reproducing19:53
jesusaurclarkb: yes, i still use an old version and it fails on that19:53
clarkbjesusaur: what version?19:53
clarkbwill help us bisect19:53
zigohashar: Also, Ubuntu Xenia *IS* frozen, we just happen to have FFE for all OpenStack things until Mitaka is out.19:53
jesusaurclarkb: 1.2319:53
zigo(and I guess git-review could be included in the FFE)19:54
fungizigo: hashar: well, git-review shouldn't be an openstack-specific thing19:54
hasharzigo: doh! :-) then  it will be in the next stable or maybe we can push it via xenix-updates or similar19:54
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fungiokay, so it sounds like nothing significant to add to this topic aside from what is in the ml thread, so we should follow up there once someone has a chance to run back through the outstanding changes and make suggestions for missing fixes (including the regression clarkb spotted)19:55
zigohashar: The question is, are there features we *must* have, or is the current version in Xenial just fine?19:55
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hasharfungi: wikimedia community definitely uses git review19:55
hasharzigo: no clue :/19:56
zigoLet's switch topic then! :P19:56
fungihashar: yep! i definitely want to look at git-review as something developed by the openstack community for anyone using gerrit, not just for people using _our_ gerrit deployment19:56
fungi#topic Infra cloud (pabelanger)19:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Infra cloud (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:56
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-March/004045.html19:56
pabelangerThis is a simple question, did we confirm we are doing 2 drops per server or 1?19:57
hasharfungi: git-review has received a wild range of contribs from Wikimedia community for sure :-}19:57
pabelangerwe talked about it at the mid-cycle, but haven't see it brought up19:57
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pabelangerif not, we should ask HP NOC team about it19:57
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fungiclarkb had mentioned that as a preferred deployment model so that we could skip the nasty bridge-on-bridge action we had in west19:57
rcarrillocruzwe had to do some stuff in glean19:58
clarkbright but I think 10Gbe is probably more valuable than 2 drops19:58
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clarkband we don't have that right now?19:58
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rcarrillocruzas it was not ready by the time to handle the vlans thingy we were using19:58
fungiroght, glean support for bridge configuration post-dated the west design19:58
crinkleI don't think they are giving us 10G19:58
clarkbcrinkle: :(19:58
rcarrillocruz(sad trombone)19:58
crinkleand I don't think we impressed hard enough that we wanted 2 drops19:58
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clarkbright because with 10Gbe we would deal19:59
clarkblike we did before19:59
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rcarrillocruzhmm, so now just 1 nic 1GB19:59
clarkbbut if we are only getting gig the nI think we need to impress onthem that we need it19:59
pabelangerIs it too late to ask?19:59
fungiit looked like the servers from west all had at least two 1gbe interfaces, but some had only one 10gbe while a few seemed to have two19:59
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rcarrillocruzi don't think it will be hard for venu to accommodate two nics19:59
pabelangerfor 2 drops19:59
rcarrillocruzi mean19:59
rcarrillocruzi've managed the gozer baremetal19:59
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clarkbfungi: it was 2x10Gbe with only one gbic installed and 2xgig iirc19:59
rcarrillocruzand that' s the setup i had20:00
rcarrillocruz2 nics20:00
fungiyeah, cat4e patch cables are likely no problem for them at all. copper 10gb sfps/switches on the other hand...20:00
anteayalooks like we are at time20:00
rcarrillocruzand never had any hold up on that20:00
crinklefrom venu's confirmation email: "We checked with DC Ops and they said all the nodes have only 1G NICs on them. So nodes to TOR switch are 1G connections."20:00
crinklei can follow up with them20:00
clarkbcrinkle: what thats not true20:00
funginot sure what's with my fingers today20:00
fungioh, also we're out of time20:00
clarkbcrinkle: I am almost 100% positive we had 10Gbe nics in every one of the machines20:00
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fungipleia2: we'll get to your topic first on the agenda netxt week if that's okay20:01
clarkbit was those silly nics that caused kernel issues constantly20:01
fungithanks everyone!!!20:01
anteayathank you20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 29 20:01:23 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-29-19.03.html20:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-29-19.03.txt20:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-29-19.03.log.html20:01
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* ttx yawns, damn DST20:01
fungisorry ttx, i owe you one minute ;)20:01
ttxwho is around for the TC meeting ?20:01
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zigoCan we continue on #openstack-infra?20:01
jeblairo/ (in board meeting spectators gallery)20:02
* thingee lost power in florida. now tethering to phone20:02
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ttxrussellb, mestery, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, flaper87, jaypipes, dhellmann: around ?20:02
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russellbin board meeting20:02
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mordredttx: in board meeting20:02
jeblairrussellb is doing a bang-up job presenting the mission statement amendment20:02
lifelessttx: o/20:03
ttx#startmeeting tc20:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 29 20:03:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:03
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* edleafe lurks in the back20:03
ttxHi everyone20:03
* cdent sits next to edleafe 20:03
ttxagenda for today:20:03
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:03
ttx#topic Appointed PTLs for Newton20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Appointed PTLs for Newton (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
* amrith finds a seat in the last row20:03
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/29636020:03
ttxLast time I looked this was still missing one vote20:03
ttxLooks like I can +A it now20:03
ttxOh, and you can pile up +1s on the PTL names update @ https://review.openstack.org/29822820:04
ttxI'll approve that one once it gets the election officials +1 and TC majority20:04
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ttx#topic Remove rolling-upgrade tag from ceilometer20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Remove rolling-upgrade tag from ceilometer (Meeting topic: tc)"20:04
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/29233420:04
ttxSo the original change was removing for swift and ceilometer but swift is pretty close to add the missing test harness20:04
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ttxSo the change was updated to only affect ceilometer, which is unlikely to fix the missing tests in the coming week.20:05
notmynameyes, thank you to those who are helping get the framework set up for swift's testing20:05
sdagueswift definitely supports the functionality, there was a testing gap, that the team is working actively to close20:05
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notmynameespecially sdague20:05
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ttxcould use one more vote on the tag removal20:06
* Rockyg lurks on the side20:06
jaypipeshey, I'm here too...20:06
* dims peeks20:06
* devananda lurks on the other side20:06
* dims says we have a full peanut gallery!20:06
jeblaircool, i'm glad this is working out!20:06
markmcclainttx: looks like we have 7 on the tag removal20:07
* ttx clicks blue button20:07
ttxLive news from the board meeting I hear our reporter Monty is on the scene20:07
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mordredhey all!20:08
mordredjeblair: would you like to comment?20:08
* russellb looks at jeblair 20:08
jeblairhey, so the board likes the mission statement20:08
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jeblairthere was some commentary on it20:08
jeblairbut no objections20:08
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jeblair(the update to the mission statement, to be clear) :)20:09
annegentleoh, good20:09
ttxAlright, we'll pick that up at next meeting20:09
jbryceUnanimous approval in fact20:09
ttxfor the last meeting of the Mitaka membership20:09
ttx#topic Update Kuryr mission statement20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Update Kuryr mission statement (Meeting topic: tc)"20:09
ttxmoving on20:09
anteayajbryce: yay!20:09
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/28999320:09
ttxOK, so making that discussion a bit more public on the ML beared(bore?) the expected fruits of drawing attention to it20:10
ttxThe fear of dilution of the Kuryr team limited membership was raised20:10
ttxThough I suspect that with additional scope additional members would be interested in joining20:10
ttx(resources are not really finite, they clearly depend on the scope addressed)20:10
ttxThe key question here is: is it two different teams or the exact same team working on those two aspects20:11
ttxSo I'm still fine with the Kuryr team exploring that space, in close contact with the Magnum team20:11
ttxwe can split that team later if needed ?20:11
lifelessits not really a top down call is it ?20:12
flaper87TBH, I'd just let them explore for now and then deal with the results20:12
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lifelessthe teams going to do what they think best20:12
* dtroyer looks for a scorecard to keep up with this afternoon's comments in the review…20:12
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dhellmannyeah, the main question in my mind is does this alter their mission in a way that adds things "not openstack", and I don't think it does that.20:12
sdakenothing in the governance rpeo is goign to stop either magnum or kuryr from proceeding20:12
flaper87I don't think the current change is crazy and they've cleared that20:13
ttxlifeless: if those are two differetn teams frankensteined together into a single project team in governance, we can ask that they form two separate teams20:13
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ttxbut that is about it, yes20:13
lifelessttx: sure, but I've no real visibility on that20:13
dtroyerI think the main question isn't the kind of work, it is the organization and who should be doing it20:13
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dhellmannttx: we can, if issues come up that make it seem like that would be a solution. I don't think we need to start out by worrying about that.20:13
ttxlifeless: right, at this stage this is pretty much an acknowledgment of the turn they want to take20:13
dhellmanndtroyer : presumably the kuryr team wants to do it, if they're changing their mission statement?20:14
lifeless...moving on :)20:14
ttxLooks like the TC is vastly supporting the mission update, unless a massive number of TC members want to change their vote now20:14
* dhellmann hopes to hear someone say "kuryr" at the summit so he knows how to pronounce it20:14
dtroyerdhellmann: right, the objections indicate disagreement in other teams…20:14
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sdakedhellmann like shipping something via courier :)20:15
lifelessit has 11 +A's20:15
dhellmanndtroyer : right20:15
lifelesserm +RC? whatever we call it20:15
ttxapproving now20:15
dhellmannsdake : aha!20:15
ttx#topic Changes to clarify project election requirements20:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Changes to clarify project election requirements (Meeting topic: tc)"20:16
ttxSo those are changes aiming to clarify the need to participate in the election process, proposed by thingee20:16
ttxespecially for recently-added projects20:16
ttx* Mention in project requirements about ptl election (https://review.openstack.org/295609)20:16
ttxI think this one is a worthwhile clarification20:16
ttxfurther improvements or precision could be proposed as subsequent patches, I guess20:16
sdaguedhellmann's clarifications seem a little crisper20:17
ttxI like dhellmann version, too20:17
dtroyerI like dhellmann's comment, now or later works20:17
edleafeseems like some of the new teams were surprised. This should help.20:17
flaper87let's update this patch20:17
thingeecan do another revision and we can circle back?20:17
ttxthingee: can you update patch ?20:17
flaper87and vote again,  we can do that as we go on with the meeting20:17
ttx* Add leaderless programs amendment for inactivity (https://review.openstack.org/295581)20:18
ttxSo I'm less convinced we need this one. It just adds that the TC may decide to demote leaderless project teams20:18
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ttxBut we may (and will) demote project teams for other violations of the OpenStack Way, not just for being leaderless or abandoned20:18
ttxSo I think this sets wrong expectations, that as long as you're active and participating in elections the TC can't remove you20:18
dhellmannI don't think we want to start enumerating reasons for demoting teams unless they seem exceptional or not covered elsewhere.20:18
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lifelessyeah, I don't see why we need it20:19
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dhellmannIf the team doesn't hold an election and ends up leadersless, that's covered by one of our existing 4 opens20:19
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ttxI think the mention in requirements (and the project team guide) are enough.20:19
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dhellmannyeah, I think clarifying over in the PTG will be good20:19
ttxok, maybe pile up a few -1s and I'll abandon it20:20
dhellmannwe may also want to remind new teams to review that when we approve them, and ask questions if they have them20:20
flaper87I actually didn't see too much of an issue with this one20:20
flaper87I mean20:20
flaper87It mentions that leaderless project teams may be removed20:20
flaper87and the model is based on teams having a leader20:20
flaper87the project governance model, that is20:21
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ttxflaper87: it's not wrong, it's useless20:21
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lifelessits adding procedure where none is required20:21
dhellmannflaper87 : as soon as we start making a list of reasons, we have to keep extending it to cover every case.20:21
lifelessbeing clear about what happens to e.g. Nova when noone stands for election is pretty important20:21
thingeedhellmann: makes sense20:21
flaper87mmh, I'll take your word on that20:21
dtroyerIt also updated program to project in the older doc…should we be looking at those to see if they need more than s/program/project/ updates?20:21
dtroyerie, if/where meaning changes20:21
ttxdtroyer: it's not a doc, it's a resolution20:22
ttxdtroyer: so it's a bit dated20:22
thingeedtroyer: can do another patch to catch those20:22
ttxs/program/project team/ actually20:22
anteayaif folks feel strongly about team/project/progam changes in the resolution I can fix it20:22
anteayabut honestly the meaning is the same20:22
anteayaand we keep changing the wording20:22
dtroyerthat's really my question, are there places where the meaning is actually different with the different word?20:23
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ttxplease review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/295609/5, will approve if it passes the bar20:23
dtroyerI don't want to do replacement just to replace20:23
anteayadtroyer: I haven't seen any difference in how the resolution is used, no20:23
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ttxdtroyer: not that I can think of20:23
dtroyerkk, thanks anteaya20:23
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anteayaI have seen the resolution used successfuly for how it was intended20:23
ttx#topic Stale cross-project specs (thingee)20:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Stale cross-project specs (thingee) (Meeting topic: tc)"20:23
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/089115.html20:24
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ttxthingee: floor is yours20:24
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thingeeWe have some still cross-project specs. I have reached out to some of the owners in their individual reviews20:24
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thingeein the previous cross-project meeting we discussed how we'd like to manage these. some people agreed it was fine for myself to be able to abandon these if there has been enough notice with the owners. I'm also fine with the TC doing this if there is enough reason, but someone needs to :)20:25
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thingee /still/stale/20:25
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ttxI'm fine with the cross-project group abandoning them. If there is opposition they can escalate to TC20:26
dhellmannthis seems like a good time to clear out the backlog if they're truly stale20:26
flaper87I'm fine with abandoning those!20:26
fungiyeah, if the tc wants to grant some group (e.g. thingee) abandon power on that repo, it's a simple acl addition in gerrit20:26
flaper87"with the x-prj team"20:26
thingeettx: I will note jeblair is still waiting for my to make a resolution on the cross-project team having more rights in this repo20:26
dtroyerI don't think the TC needs to be involved here unless there is a dispute20:26
* mordred thinks the tc should grant thingee broad-reaching powers20:26
ttxdtroyer: exactly20:26
sdaguedtroyer: well the TC *is* the approval team at this point20:27
* dhellmann hands thingee Powers whiskey20:27
sdaguethat's how it was set up originally20:27
ttxthingee: how about you fix the ACL and then go on an abandonment rampage ?20:27
sdagueso that can be changed, which is cool20:27
anteayathe cross project team doesn't have a ptl, unless the tc would like to create one20:27
fungithe acl comes with big, stompy boots suitable for abandonment rage20:27
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jeblairwho is the cross-project group?20:28
jeblairi assume thingee is in it :)20:28
ttxsdague: I would delegate to the cross-project meeting chair20:28
mordredjeblair: you are20:28
annegentlejeblair: tc?20:28
thingeejeblair: I guess it's cross-project spec liaisons to be exact and correcting myself https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons#Cross-Project_Spec_Liaisons20:28
ttxand then handle disputes at TC level if any20:28
jeblairso i'm specifically asking about "I'm fine with the cross-project group abandoning them. If there is opposition they can escalate to TC" :)20:28
flaper87We can probably take care of the cleanup this time around and set up the ACLs for x-prj specs correctly20:28
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thingeeand our project team guide http://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/cross-project.html20:28
gordcit seems strange tc holds approval/abandon powers if they are only handling it at a dispute level20:29
* dtroyer hears delegation gears grinding away20:29
ttxjeblair: the cross-project meeting chair, representing the cross-project spec liaisons ?20:29
dhellmannif we just want someone to do the work, I already have a pair of those big stompy boots fungi mentioned20:29
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thingeettx: how about I finish my resolution and the TC can review that.20:29
ttxgordc: right we should fix the ACL to match how we proceed nowadays20:29
flaper87Feels like we all want thingee to take care of that but there's no actual 'title' for him to take that on except he being the chair.20:29
jeblairyeah, it sounds like we have some general support for delegation20:29
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jeblairi just want to recognize that i think we're catching up to a new (good) reality here20:30
gordcttx: cool cool. yeah, it'd make more sense to just give it to CPL and chair since they're the ones reviewing20:30
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jeblairi'd be most comfortable with a tc resolution acknowledging this delegation20:30
jeblair(i'd vote for it)20:30
dhellmannjeblair : but will you write it?20:31
ttxok, let's propose a resolution describing the cross-project new ACL, then implement that ACL and let thingee abandon things20:31
jeblairdhellmann: i may not be best positioned too since i'm not as involved as thingee but would be happy to help20:31
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ttxwould that work ?20:32
dhellmannformally delegating this seems like a good plan20:32
jeblairdhellmann: i am the person who just asked "who is the cross projcet group?" :)20:32
thingeeworks for me!20:32
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flaper87ttx: yeah, that's what I intended to suggest above but I fail to mention "lets put this in a resolution"20:32
jeblairdhellmann: but at least i'm asking the right questions.  i think.  :)20:32
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anteayajeblair: I like your questions20:32
thingeejeblair: you also asked a resolution a while back for acl and cp group http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-01-19-20.02.log.html#l-2920:32
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ttx#info let's propose a resolution describing the cross-project new ACL, then implement that ACL and let thingee abandon things20:32
jeblairi am also consistent :)20:32
* thingee had that sitting in a tab since he already started writing this20:33
dtroyer++ for consistency20:33
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ttxthingee: anything else on this ?20:33
thingeettx: nope, thanks everyone20:33
jeblairthingee: thank you!20:33
ttxThank you, I know by experience herding the cross-project spec cats is no fun20:33
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ttx#topic Tags to describe deployment and packaging deliverables20:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Tags to describe deployment and packaging deliverables (Meeting topic: tc)"20:34
ttxSo these propose to add type:deployment and type:packaging tags to describe deployment/packaging deliverables20:34
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* jaypipes perks up...20:34
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ttx* Introduce type:deployment tag (https://review.openstack.org/295528)20:34
ttxI commented on this one -- I think the requirements are unclear.20:34
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ttxShould every Puppet module get this tag ? Or would they get type:packaging instead ?20:34
edleafesorry to wake you, jaypipes20:34
dhellmannI think they're overly prescriptive, too, talking about producing fully integrated deployments20:35
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* ttx reads recent comments20:35
dhellmann"is useful for deployments" and "produces a full deployment" are two different things20:35
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dhellmannthe former tag is useful for the release team, the latter is less so20:35
dhellmannbut may be more useful for some users20:35
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ttxsdake: In my understanding type:packaging applies to main service (or tool) that ends up deploying OpenStack services using packages/recipes/whatever (which may get the type:packaging tag)20:35
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sdakedeploys-working-cloud seems reasonable dhellmann20:36
ttxSo type:packaging applies to Fuel, and it does not apply to debian/rpm packages20:36
ttxKolla, Ansible, Chef and Puppet are less clear-cut though -- those seem to do packaging for Docker, Ansible, Chef and Puppet to deploy20:36
dhellmannttx: do you mean type:deployment?20:36
sdakeno type:deployment applies to fuel20:36
ttxso I'd like the requirements to have clear answers for all of those20:36
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ttxtype:deployment sorry20:36
sdakettx agreed I think these need more work20:36
sdakethe reason i bring them up20:36
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ttx* Introduce a type:packaging tag (https://review.openstack.org/295971)20:37
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sdakettx is because other tags (the assert classification in paritcular_) asserts on them20:37
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ttxtype:packaging as proposed has another type of issue -- the requirements as worded apply to the whole packaging system rather than specific deliverables20:37
jaypipesedleafe: I was awake. just this particular topic is of special interest to me given sdake's TC candidacy email.20:37
sdakettx which locks out deployment projects from asserting anything20:37
ttxFor example to assess if deb-trove should get type:packaging, I have to look into Debian to see if RabbitMQ is packaged there20:37
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annegentlesdake: this is good stuff, is the end goal clear? Is it to group all deployments or rank within the deployments grouping?20:37
jaypipesedleafe: where he bemoans the RED TAPE.20:37
ttxI'd rather drop those requirements and just give type:packaging to anything that is a package of an openstack thing20:38
dhellmannyeah, let's keep the tag definitions simple20:38
sdakeannegentle you got it20:38
ttxsame way we give type:library to anything that quacks like a library20:38
edleafejaypipes: just funnin' ya. But yeah, lotsa tape...20:38
annegentlesdake: heh it can't be both :)20:38
sdaguesdake: the one place that I saw you throw up some asserts was on upgrade, but to the best of my knowledge none of the deployments do gate testing for upgrade20:38
annegentlesdake: I mean, it can I spose, but isn't clear yet.20:38
sdakeannegentle sorry misread your or as an and20:38
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dhellmannsdague : there is also a mention somewhere in one of the release model tags that allows deployment repos to be out of phase with the rest of the projects20:39
annegentlesdake: no worries20:39
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sdaguedhellmann: ah, right20:39
annegentleone q I had on first read through was "where's the ops tags?"20:39
sdakettx may I have a moment to explain the why of these tags20:39
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dhellmannI can't remember if it was milestone or intermediary, but it would probably apply to both, assuming we don't just define a different release model for that case20:39
annegentlesince that effort might be relevant and I don't know where it left off20:39
lifelesssdague: doesn't devstack do that ?20:39
sdaguedhellmann: which makes total sense to me, deployment projects having a phase delay with server projects20:39
jaypipessdake: please do tell. I'm very interested in the answer to that question.20:39
ttxsdake: sure20:39
lifelesssdague: (and it clearly is a type:deployment...)20:40
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sdaguedevstack doesn't upgrade20:40
ttxplease let sdake explain20:40
dhellmannsdague : right, it's just not clear which solution is best, a new model or an exceptions to the existing model20:40
dtroyerlifeless: please don't let DevStack get a tag that encourages any use outside development or testing20:40
sdaguedtroyer: ++20:40
* dhellmann waits for sdake 20:40
sdakejaypipes the reason i introduced these tags is I think it is unfair to deployment projects to be excluded from tagging with assertions20:40
sdakejaypipes the project tag came out of a discussion in the review with ttx that we should also have a packaging tag20:40
sdakei know life is unfair, but we shoudl be a fair organization ;)20:41
ttxwell, you have to think about the goal of that assertion. It's not a badge20:41
sdakei am less hot on the packaging tag20:41
ttxIt's about communicating some information to our users20:41
sdakettx I agree its not a badge, but for example kolla upgrades20:41
sdakeyet we can't assert it20:41
ttxThat assertion communicates which service projects support cold and rolling upgrades20:41
jrollis there a specific assertion at hand here, or is it about all of them?20:41
jrollah, upgrades20:41
sdaguesdake: in the gate?20:42
sdakeso if someone looks at he automated tooling release produces, we can't indicate it20:42
lifelesssdake: kolla itself can be upgraded20:42
dhellmannsdake, why can't kolla assert upgrades?20:42
lifelesssdake: or kolla can upgrade other things?20:42
sdakesdague not yet, but we can do that triviallly20:42
ttxdhellmann: because the assert tag calls type:service specifically20:42
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sdakedhellmann because the upgrade tag specifically says it only appliees to type:service20:42
annegentleah, ok20:42
dhellmannah, ok, so that'll be easy to fix with this change20:42
sdakei'm just trying to fix the tags so they make sense :)20:42
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EmilienMsdake: ++20:43
lifelesssdake: and kolla doesn't have any service?20:43
sdaguesdake: ok, the current upgrade asserts were definitely written with servers in mind. I think it would be cool to do the right thing for deployment tools there as well, but it might be a different description of what it means20:43
ttxI'd rather fix the assertion (or create another one) than create extra type tags just to support that assertion20:43
sdakemaybe i wentabout it the wrong way, but I think I shave a right to submit changes to hte governance repo ;)20:43
dhellmannsure, I suspect the type:service was there to avoid worrying about type:library, not to exclude deployment things20:43
EmilienMlifeless: no, it's a deployment tool20:43
dhellmannsdake : the approach is fine, the details need work20:43
jrollsdake: ++, feels like a separate tag to me for can-upgrade-openstack vs supports-being-upgraded20:43
jrollsdague: ^^20:43
lifelessEmilienM: I know what it is, but your answer doesn't help\20:43
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ttxjroll: ++20:43
annegentledhellmann: yeah and does it need REST API info, that sort of thing20:43
sdaguejroll: yeh, that seems like a good idea20:43
lifelessEmilienM: fuel is a deployment tool, and it has a service20:44
sdakedhellmann wfm i am willing to finish the job ;)20:44
edleafesdake: is there any part of kolla that is long-running that would need a rolling upgrade?20:44
ttxannegentle: and a service catalog entry20:44
annegentlettx: yeah20:44
ttxAgain, not saying that the type:deployment and type:packaging are bad ideas... I could see some use for them. But I think the motivation is a bit wrong20:44
sdakeedleafe not at htis time20:45
sdakeeverthing in kolla itself is stateless20:45
ttxif the goal is that you can assert tags20:45
edleafesdake: thx20:45
lifelesssdake: where is kolla's state stored?20:45
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jaypipesttx: I think the type:deployment serves a useful taxonomical purpose above and beyond any relation to assertion tags.20:45
annegentlesdake: so to me sounds like a grouping that would then enable further tagging20:45
ttxjaypipes: right20:45
annegentlejaypipes: agree20:45
sdakelifeless that is a long complciated discussion better left for a different forum :) come join us on #kolla to find out20:45
sdagueyeh, deployment tools aren't always obvious by their name20:45
jaypipesjroll: ++20:45
lifelesssdake: (excuse my ignorange :))20:45
edleafejaypipes: that sounds correct20:45
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sdakeannegentle you got it20:45
sdagueso putting that into the mix seems like a good iea20:45
dhellmannjaypipes : yeah, I just worry because we do have some release tools that use the type tags now, so we may have holes if we add a bunch of new ones. That said, these seem reasonable.20:46
sdakelifeless its ok - I barely understand it myself ;)20:46
annegentledhellmann: these seem like an okay starting point20:46
dhellmannannegentle : yep20:46
EmilienMlifeless: excuse my ignorance too20:46
dhellmannannegentle : with some refinement20:46
sdakedhellmann i will help fix the release tools if i can20:46
lifelessI'm +1 on  adding deployment, it seems like a no-brainer. The packaging one I am still confused by20:46
sdakedhellmann i assume you are tlakingabout the release repo?20:46
ttxdhellmann: right, I like type:deployment to describe tools that end up deploying openstack, and type:packaging to describe recipes/packages/cookbooks/playbooks thingies20:46
dhellmannsdake : release and release-tools, yes20:47
sdakedhellmann ok i'll hve to read up on release-tools20:47
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sdakettx that is exactly what i was ater20:47
sdakeperhaps it was worded poorly20:47
ttxI just feel like those two definitions are off the mark and need some work. Happy to go through iterations with sdake20:47
sdakei am open to suggetstions on language in the review20:47
jrollIMO puppet/ansible/etc things are deployment tools, not packaging20:47
dhellmannyeah, I think we can do that offline20:48
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jrollthey don't produce an output20:48
* jroll will comment in review20:48
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ttxjroll: yeah, but they are recipes that another tool will use to deploy a specific service, no ?20:48
EmilienMjroll: right, and we actually consume packaging.20:48
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fungiand also can _be_ packaged20:48
jrollttx: yes, but they are not packages, they are essentially plugins20:48
fungi(e.g., debian's packages of puppet modules)20:48
jrollor rather, they are not packaging tools20:48
jrollthey don't produce a package, they are directives for a deployment system to read and execute20:49
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ttxjroll: right they don't contain the source code, but that's about the only difference20:49
sdakei dont have expereince with pupept or chef so have hard time clarifyign their requriements20:49
lifelesseveryone openstack is packaged upstream anyway ...20:49
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sdakeEmilienM if you do could you clarify what you would expect out of them in the review?20:49
sdagueyeh, I think it's worth just punting on the packaging thing because it's confusing, and no one really seems to need it right now20:50
sdaguethe deployment tag seems useful20:50
ttxa package is just source code bundled with metadata that a deployment system uses to install them20:50
EmilienMsdake: sure thing.20:50
sdakesdague wfm, i was just following through on ttx's implied request20:50
ttxa plugin/recipe/cookbook/playbook is just that packaging metadata20:50
lifelessttx: well, install system to install... deployment systems are (IMO) really a abstraction layer up again..20:50
sdaguesdake: yep, no worries. Lets just on-demand solve problems we need to solve, and leave the philosophy of packaging to bars in austin :)20:51
ttxlifeless: sure. But puppet-trove should imho get type:packaging, not type:deployment20:51
sdakesdague wfm ;)20:51
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ttxit's metadata that Puppet uses to deploy trove.20:51
annegentlesdake: sdague: heh20:51
sdaguettx: by that regard devstack is packaging. I think there are so many grey areas here we can go in circles for ever.20:52
jrollttx: I guess it depends if the packaging tag is about tools to produce a package or packages themselves :)20:52
annegentlesdague: eeeeek20:52
lifelessttx: Lets defer packaging for now :). Life is too short.20:52
ttxMy head hurts now20:52
jrollbut yeah, agree on punting on packaging20:52
sdakejroll in the case of kolla, we hve a script which abstracts ansible20:52
sdaguelifeless: ++20:52
EmilienMttx: I don't understand why, puppet-trove deploy trove using packaging provided by ubuntu/rdo/whatever, isn't?20:52
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sdakeshell script20:52
sdakeansible deploys containers20:52
sdakecontainers contain packaging metadata20:52
sdakeansible contains deployment tooling20:53
sdagueturtles all the way down20:53
ttxEmilienM: too many ways to slice it I guess20:53
ttxsdague: yep20:53
ttxOh well, let's iterate on the review20:53
sdakeplease, i think we cant solve it in this meeting ;)20:53
ttx#topic Open discussion20:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:53
edleafethe important thing, IMO, is how a user would view the tool20:53
sdakethat is why gerrit rocks ;)20:53
sdagueedleafe: agreed20:53
jaypipesthat's a first.20:53
sdaguethis information is for end users20:53
dimssdake : is the idea that a version of kolla can deploy multiple versions of openstack? that's one way to differentiate between packaging and deployment?20:53
ttxedleafe: yes, you should focus on the information you want to convey20:53
* jeblair high fives gerrit20:53
ttxCross-project track planning still going at:20:54
sdaguegerrit gives jeblair back a 50220:54
sdakedims only one version but we can also upgrade to the next20:54
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-cross-project-sessions20:54
annegentlewe need more proposals there right?20:54
jaypipesjeblair: :)20:54
edleafesdague: heh20:54
ttxwe need more proposals indeed20:54
jeblairsdague: HIGH-50220:54
sdaguejeblair: ++20:54
ttxonly 9 entries so far20:54
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sdagueit's early, and was a holiday weekend20:54
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* amrith wonders if we'll get to open discussion today20:54
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sdagueI just sent out another reminder to folks20:54
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anteayaamrith: we are in it20:54
ttxamrith: we are in open discussion20:54
annegentleamrith: lucky you we're there!20:54
lifelessI had a q for the TC as a whole - how did you perceive me during these last two cycles; would you like having me on the TC again, or not?20:54
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amriththat's odd, my status line didn't update.20:55
amrithA shameless plug for feedback (lazy consensus reviews) on https://review.openstack.org/295887.20:55
amrithAlso a request for review on https://review.openstack.org/295733 and https://review.openstack.org/29648920:55
ttxlifeless: my stats show you on the "active" quadrant. Your call :)20:55
anteayaamrith: you have to tell folks why you are asking folks for reviews in the tc meeting20:55
ttxI started the etherpad on the video pieces of advice for Design Summit session moderators:20:55
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/austin-summit-video20:55
* sdake wtb ttx's stats tooling20:55
ttxIf you have original points you want to make, please add to that ^20:55
dhellmannamrith : if there are no negative reviews on those after a week they'll be approved20:56
jeblairttx: what i saw on the etherpad yesterday looked good20:56
amrithdhellmann, thanks.20:56
ttxSo to complement lifeless point, TC nominations this week -- we are renewing the 7 seats currently held by jeblair, lifeless, flaper87, markmcclain, jaypipes, dtroyer, and myself20:56
amrithanteaya, because I didn't know how 'lazy consensus' works.20:56
ttxIf you plan to run, don't forget to send your nomination before the deadline20:56
amrithdhellmann, just clarified.20:56
amrithso I'm all set.20:56
dhellmannlifeless : ++ if you have the time an energy, run again20:56
ttxIf you plan not to run for reelection, announce that early so that it encourages others to run20:56
EmilienMtalking about tags: Puppet OpenStack group is currently applying for release:cycle-with-intermediary tag - please look https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297382/20:56
sdagueon the cross project session scheduling, who would like to be involved in that? I'll organize together folks next week. Typically it's anyone in the TC that's up for taking a few hours and weighing in.20:57
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ttxsdague: I'm fine helping20:57
fungialso reminder, though you probably all know, nominations go to gerrit now. those who were last elected a year ago, that wasn't the case20:57
dtroyersdague: o/20:57
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edleafelifeless: although it means more competition for me, I think you've done an excellent job and should run again if you're so inclined20:57
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lifelessfungi: is there a docs page on that ?20:57
ttxlifeless: see email to -dev announcing election20:58
markmcclainsdague: I can help out20:58
lifelessttx: thanks20:58
fungilifeless: good question. for the ptl elections it was documented at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_March_201620:58
fungitristanC or tonyb should have a proper url somewhere20:58
anteayalifeless: on the wiki home page click governance20:59
fungiwas probably in the announcement about opening the nominations period20:59
ttxI think it's TC and April for the TC one20:59
anteayalifeless: it lists all the election wikipages20:59
sdagueok, I'll send out a general email get feedback from folks for a round of voting on things, then I'll sort out a good time to do synchronous block to actually slot things20:59
anteayacurrent and past20:59
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lifelessfungi: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TC_Elections_April_2016#How_to_submit_your_candidacy20:59
tristanCare you looking for https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TC_Elections_April_2016 ?20:59
fungiyep, that looks like it20:59
lifelesssdague: I'll happily contribute time20:59
lifelesssdague: if the meeting is vague asiapac sensible; if its not thats ok21:00
ttxsdague: do you have a closing date for cross-project suggestions ?21:00
lifelesssdague: I'm sure the outcome will be an epic compromise as always :)21:00
sdaguettx: yes, end of the week21:00
sdagueper initial post21:00
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ttxtime indeed21:00
ttxThanks everyone21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 29 21:01:10 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-29-20.03.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-29-20.03.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-29-20.03.log.html21:01
thingeecourtesy ping for Qiming TravT gordc dirk mriedem SergeyLukjanov21:01
thingeecourtesy ping for daemontool jroll boris-42 redrobot flaper87 rhochmuth21:01
thingeecourtesy ping for fungi flwang dims vipul johnthetubaguy rakhmerov21:01
thingeecourtesy ping for docaedo stevemar mtreinish bswartz adam_g adrian_otto21:01
thingeecourtesy ping for zigo Piet sdake mugsie sheeprine thinrichs21:01
lifelessthingee: echannel ?21:01
thingeecourtesy ping for jklare loquacities smelikyan Daisy skraynev odyssey4me21:01
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thingeecourtesy ping for samueldmq nikhil21:01
thingeemeet in #openstack-meeting-cp please!21:01
thingeejust trying to get more people in there21:01
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ttxlazy redirect21:01
lifelessthingee: perhaps we should use this channel instead then :)21:01
dimswe need to invite the incoming PTL(s)21:02
nikhildims: in the other channel actually :)21:02
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nikhilie. -cp one21:02
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dimsnikhil :)21:07
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