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| yamamoto | hi | 06:59 |
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| yamamoto | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 29 07:01:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamamoto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet' | 07:01 |
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| yamamoto | #topic Agenda | 07:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:03 | |
| yamamoto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet | 07:03 |
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| yamamoto | #topic Announcements | 07:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:03 | |
| yamamoto | no announcements from me | 07:04 |
| yamamoto | #topic Bugs | 07:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:04 | |
| yamamoto | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/ | 07:04 |
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| yamamoto | v1 tempest job is still broken. it needs a fix in midonet v2015.06. unfortunately the branch is no longer maintained. | 07:07 |
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| yamamoto | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/+bug/1557263 | 07:08 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1557263 in networking-midonet "Remove MN v1.9 support from mitaka " [Low,Incomplete] | 07:08 |
| yamamoto | this is related. | 07:08 |
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| yamamoto | i'll continue bug deputy this week | 07:08 |
| yamamoto | #topic Open Discussion | 07:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:08 | |
| yamamoto | nothing from me | 07:08 |
| * yamamoto waiting for a few minutes before closing meeting | 07:08 | |
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| yamamoto | bye! | 07:22 |
| yamamoto | #endmeeting | 07:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #telemetry)" | 07:22 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 29 07:22:45 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:22 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-29-07.01.html | 07:22 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-29-07.01.txt | 07:22 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-29-07.01.log.html | 07:22 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 29 08:00:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | hello | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | lennyb: was there a time change on the weekend? | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | lennyb: I'm hoping that you get your times set correctly for the meeting next week | 08:13 |
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| anteaya | #info lennyb will chair this Tuesday at 08:00 utc meeting next week | 08:13 |
| anteaya | any objection to me closing the meeting? | 08:13 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #telemetry)" | 08:14 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 29 08:14:15 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:14 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-29-08.00.html | 08:14 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-29-08.00.txt | 08:14 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-29-08.00.log.html | 08:14 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 29 13:00:07 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
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| Qiming | evening/morning | 13:00 |
| cschulz | Hi | 13:00 |
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| lixinhui_ | HI | 13:00 |
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| elynn | Hi | 13:01 |
| zzxwill | Hello Qiming. | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | just posted an agenda for meeting today | 13:01 |
| Qiming | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:01 |
| Qiming | please feel free to add items if you have some | 13:02 |
| Liuqing | \o | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | #topic austin summit planning | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "austin summit planning (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:02 | |
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| Qiming | I think we are in good shape regarding the deep dive session and the autoscaling session | 13:03 |
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| Qiming | anything you want to discuss regarding these two talks? | 13:03 |
| lixinhui_ | The demo is still under refinement | 13:04 |
| Qiming | we have just got some preliminary session allocation info | 13:04 |
| lixinhui_ | thanks for the help of elynn today on security group | 13:04 |
| elynn | Just begin to think of it | 13:04 |
| Qiming | so far we don't have conflicts between the talk sessions and the design summit | 13:05 |
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| elynn | will discuss with you later if I need help. | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | elynn, consider backport that to stable/mitaka? | 13:05 |
| elynn | ok, keep in mind | 13:06 |
| elynn | Is it merged? | 13:06 |
| Qiming | not yet | 13:06 |
| Qiming | speaking of container cluster one, let's see what we can get as a poc in this week | 13:07 |
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| Qiming | haiwei, we will need to sync on that more frequently | 13:07 |
| haiwei | Qiming, I started to implement it in senlin, tried to get container list | 13:07 |
| haiwei | it is almost there | 13:08 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | #link design summit sessions | 13:08 |
| Qiming | sorry | 13:08 |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-senlin-sessions | 13:08 |
| Qiming | we have a S7 added though we only have 5 working session + 1 fishbowl session applied | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | adopting existing nova server sounds an interesting scenario | 13:10 |
| Qiming | but you know, senlin needs a profile for any node created (or adopted) | 13:10 |
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| haiwei | yes | 13:11 |
| Qiming | even if we want to adopt an existing server, we may still have to do two steps: | 13:11 |
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| cschulz | Should we add the 'semi-autoscaling' stuff to this? | 13:12 |
| Qiming | openstack cluster profile create --from <server_id> --type os.nova.server | 13:12 |
| Qiming | openstack node create --spec <spec_file> --from <server_id> | 13:13 |
| Qiming | cschulz, you mean design summit session? | 13:13 |
| cschulz | Yes, or is it too early? | 13:13 |
| Qiming | cschulz, no, we had a plan for design summit sessions | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | we are yet to finalize it | 13:14 |
| Qiming | it sounds to me that S3 is not so interesting now | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | we have already started tempest and rally investigation, tempest framework is getting merged, not a lot to discuss | 13:15 |
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| lixinhui_ | since we already start working on that | 13:15 |
| Qiming | Yanyan has started contributing to rally about support to Senlin | 13:15 |
| Qiming | so how about we replace S3 with S7? | 13:16 |
| lixinhui_ | I agree | 13:16 |
| elynn | no problem | 13:16 |
| haiwei | the session number is limited? | 13:16 |
| haiwei | it's ok I think | 13:16 |
| Qiming | yes, haiwei, we only have 5 + 1 + 1 | 13:17 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:17 |
| Qiming | 5 work sessions, + 1 fishbowl, +1 developer meetup | 13:17 |
| Qiming | then we can make S3 cover both your item and cschulz's proposal | 13:18 |
| haiwei | sounds good | 13:18 |
| Qiming | haiwei, I'm still leaving you as the driver | 13:18 |
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| haiwei | ok | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | let's move on | 13:21 |
| Qiming | #topic high-priority bugs before final release | 13:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "high-priority bugs before final release (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:21 | |
| Qiming | the security group one is a good candidate | 13:21 |
| Qiming | are you aware of any high priority bugs we should merge into stable branch? | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | it is being pushed out of door next week | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | btw, Liuqing, just proposed a release of senlin-dashboard 0.2.0 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298710/ | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | emm... no one is yelling, great, let's continue work on newton items | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | #topic newton work items | 13:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "newton work items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:24 | |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems | 13:24 |
| Qiming | testing side, no news from china mobile yet, but they have some guys evaluating multi-region deployment, that I know | 13:25 |
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| lixinhui_ | Qiming | 13:25 |
| lixinhui_ | I think it would be better if we can schedule | 13:25 |
| lixinhui_ | some meeting with them here | 13:26 |
| Qiming | yes? | 13:26 |
| lixinhui_ | about oslo and | 13:26 |
| lixinhui_ | scalability things | 13:26 |
| Qiming | okay, will do | 13:26 |
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| lixinhui_ | remember they once showed some parameters there | 13:27 |
| Qiming | #action Qiming to sync with china mobile guys on oslo.messaging and scalability lessons learnt | 13:27 |
| lixinhui_ | when mid-cycle | 13:27 |
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| Qiming | will schedule a call with them soon | 13:27 |
| lixinhui_ | great! | 13:27 |
| Qiming | tempest testing, where are we, elynn? | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | I saw some patches coming in | 13:28 |
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| elynn | yes | 13:28 |
| Qiming | anything you want to discuss, or it is all under your good control? | 13:28 |
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| elynn | An initial patch is submitted and I will rebase it based on your comments. | 13:29 |
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| elynn | It's good for now. | 13:29 |
| Qiming | okay, please consider adding support to some failure cases, such as node creation failures, driver failures | 13:29 |
| elynn | Just need some time to move all tests to use tempest plugin. | 13:29 |
| zzxwill | Sorry, 'china mobile'? To deploy clusters in their cloud by senlin? | 13:29 |
| elynn | It's trivial. | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | great. what we need is not just tests against successes, but also those against failures | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | as a user, I really hope the service never fails, and if it fails, it fails in a predictable way | 13:31 |
| Qiming | zzxwill, that is true | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | lixinhui_, do we have some data about stress testing senlin? | 13:33 |
| elynn | Okay, so let me think of it. Haven't figure out how to implement them in tempest, I will keep on digging. | 13:33 |
| lixinhui_ | Yes, Qiming | 13:33 |
| lixinhui_ | with simulated drvier | 13:33 |
| zzxwill | Thx. | 13:34 |
| lixinhui_ | one engine runing with 8 cpu and 16mem can support 1000 scale node creation without any problem | 13:34 |
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| lixinhui_ | With real driver, we meet some image authentication failure | 13:34 |
| Qiming | does multi-engine setup help in scaling? | 13:34 |
| Qiming | so it is broken, but not at senlin side | 13:35 |
| lixinhui_ | not in senlin side | 13:35 |
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| Qiming | okay, hope we can learn something from china mobile guys | 13:35 |
| lixinhui_ | with two engine, 2500 creation has no problem | 13:35 |
| lixinhui_ | but will do more tests | 13:35 |
| Qiming | cool. | 13:36 |
| lixinhui_ | to find your question | 13:36 |
| lixinhui_ | find answer/evidence to your question | 13:36 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:36 |
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| lixinhui_ | Yes, it would nice if we can have more exchange with china mobile guys | 13:37 |
| Qiming | health mgmt side, do we have lb based health poller? | 13:37 |
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| lixinhui_ | yes | 13:37 |
| lixinhui_ | I implemented one | 13:37 |
| lixinhui_ | and adopt it into the auto-scaling demo | 13:37 |
| Qiming | okay, would be curious to see how it looks like, :) | 13:37 |
| lixinhui_ | will discuss more details with you tomorrow | 13:38 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:38 |
| lixinhui_ | nowdays, I polling neutron for node status | 13:38 |
| lixinhui_ | member status | 13:38 |
| lixinhui_ | the status is changed by health monitor of lbaas | 13:39 |
| Qiming | regarding HA scenario, I have pasted some references to the etherpad | 13:39 |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-ha-recover | 13:39 |
| lixinhui_ | yes | 13:39 |
| lixinhui_ | I read them and treasure them very much | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | it is very complicated and a huge problem domain | 13:40 |
| lixinhui_ | I think we should try these works in permitted scope | 13:40 |
| Qiming | need to collect a lot inputs to form a global picture, then find something we want to focus on | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | exactly | 13:41 |
| lixinhui_ | yes | 13:41 |
| Qiming | there are interests in auto-evacuation | 13:41 |
| Qiming | but ... that is only one of the scenarios | 13:41 |
| cschulz | I think this is another area where we could use Zaqar to get information into Senlin | 13:41 |
| Qiming | we need to find out how to amend our health policy to get fencing done | 13:41 |
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| lixinhui_ | Okay | 13:42 |
| cschulz | A cluster in trouble could send a notification in via a Zaqar queue | 13:42 |
| Qiming | yes, cschulz, we will need many ears and eyes | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | right, we have some related todo items documented in source tree | 13:43 |
| Qiming | we need to yield notifications when something note worthy happens | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | we also need to generate some meters for ceilometer if there are such use cases | 13:43 |
| Qiming | lixinhui_, regarding the full end-to-end story documentation | 13:44 |
| cschulz | I would think that a cluster size meter would be very useful | 13:44 |
| Qiming | I'm thinking of sharing your autoscaling template into heat-templates project some day | 13:44 |
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| cschulz | i.e. raise an alarm when a cluster grows beyond some alarm specified limit. | 13:45 |
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| lixinhui_ | YeYes, Qiming | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | we send out an event after cluster size change | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | leave the evaluation and alarming logic to telemetry/metering/alarming service, :) | 13:45 |
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| lixinhui_ | what do you mean by generate some meters for ceilometer if there are such use cases | 13:46 |
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| lixinhui_ | i think we will leverage heat for alarm creation | 13:47 |
| Qiming | service like monasca/ceilometer would collect runtime statistics from every service | 13:47 |
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| lixinhui_ | okay | 13:47 |
| Qiming | it is up to senlin to generate whatever such measurements | 13:47 |
| lixinhui_ | I see | 13:48 |
| lixinhui_ | thanks for explanation | 13:48 |
| Qiming | api-microversioning | 13:48 |
| Qiming | it is almost done | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | still poking around and see if there things missed, will mark the bp completed if nothing else left | 13:49 |
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| * Qiming reading semi-autoscaling notes | 13:49 | |
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| Qiming | so, if we are leveraging zaqar for messaging/notifications | 13:50 |
| cschulz | I'm not sure about the notification part. We might be able to do that via ceilometer per our earlier discussion | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | we can incorporate the incoming messages via receivers, just a new sub-type of it | 13:51 |
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| cschulz | Yes, I've started working on a Zaqar client but could use some guidance. | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | notification (outgoing) side, I'd like that to be a deployer configured option | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | it can be a list of drivers | 13:51 |
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| flaper87 | cschulz: Qiming u guys working on a zaqar client for what? | 13:51 |
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| * flaper87 sneaks in | 13:51 | |
| flaper87 | There's a python client | 13:52 |
| * flaper87 admits he didn't read the backlog | 13:52 | |
| Qiming | let the deployers decide if notifications going to oslo or zaqar or both | 13:52 |
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| cschulz | flaper87 for Senlin incoming and outgoing messages. | 13:52 |
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| Qiming | flaper87, we are looking to zaqar to trigger autoscaling from user land | 13:52 |
| flaper87 | ah, sounds great! | 13:53 |
| Qiming | and also some other possibilities | 13:53 |
| cschulz | Qiming OK. | 13:53 |
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| flaper87 | well, happy to help and provide guidance if needed | 13:53 |
| flaper87 | Also, #openstack-zaqar is a pretty cool channel | 13:53 |
| Qiming | auto-scaling triggered from infrastructure layer is a toy, if not a mistake | 13:53 |
| flaper87 | :D | 13:53 |
| cschulz | flaper87, Thanks. I'll contact you. | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | flaper87, cookies there? | 13:53 |
| lixinhui_ | :) | 13:54 |
| lixinhui_ | Qiming always feel hungry | 13:54 |
| Qiming | flaper87, will reference your blog post in a coming talk, :) | 13:54 |
| cschulz | flaper87, what time zone you in? | 13:54 |
| flaper87 | Qiming: yup but we're fans of gummybears | 13:54 |
| Qiming | anyway, that's pretty much what we have on agenda | 13:54 |
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| flaper87 | Qiming: a-ha! :D Which one? Let me know if you need help | 13:55 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussion | 13:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:55 | |
| flaper87 | cschulz: oh, that's a very good question :P | 13:55 |
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| flaper87 | I don't even know | 13:55 |
| Qiming | flaper87, the ptl one | 13:55 |
| flaper87 | It's easier to ping me than keeping track of my TZs whereabouts | 13:55 |
| cschulz | flaper87 OK | 13:56 |
| flaper87 | that said, I'm supposed to be in Central Europe TZ | 13:56 |
| flaper87 | (should be summer time now so CEST) | 13:56 |
| Qiming | fei long will continue his ptl job next cycle? | 13:56 |
| flaper87 | which I'm not right onw | 13:57 |
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| flaper87 | Qiming: yes | 13:57 |
| cschulz | Any particular IRC channel to use? | 13:57 |
| flaper87 | #openstack-zaqar | 13:57 |
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| cschulz | OK thanks | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | okay, guys, thanks for joining, talk to you next week | 13:59 |
| cschulz | Bye | 13:59 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| lixinhui_ | bye | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #telemetry)" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 29 13:59:24 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-29-13.00.html | 13:59 |
| haiwei | bye | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-29-13.00.txt | 13:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-29-13.00.log.html | 13:59 |
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| ihrachys | ok, let's get it started | 14:01 |
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| ihrachys | #startmeeting networking | 14:01 |
| jschwarz | ihrachys, yeah! | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 29 14:01:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| dasm | o/ | 14:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:01 |
| johnsom | o/ | 14:01 |
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| rossella_s | hi :) | 14:01 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:01 |
| ihrachys | hi everyone! :) | 14:01 |
| hoangcx | hi :0 | 14:01 |
| haleyb | hi | 14:01 |
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| korzen | \o | 14:01 |
| HenryG | o/ | 14:01 |
| aimeeU | hi :0 | 14:01 |
| njohnston | Hi, Dr. Nick! | 14:01 |
| xgerman | O/ | 14:01 |
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| yamahata | hi | 14:02 |
| sridharg | hi | 14:02 |
| * ihrachys notes good representation this time :) | 14:02 | |
| ihrachys | #topic Announcements | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:02 | |
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| ihrachys | first thing first... there was a time zone switch this weekend in some parts of the world | 14:02 |
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| ihrachys | make sure your meeting times are set using UTC :) | 14:02 |
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| dasm | ihrachys: and two weeks ago in other parts ;) | 14:03 |
| * jschwarz is glad he got this meeting right on the first try | 14:03 | |
| ihrachys | dasm: right. people like when it's complex. | 14:03 |
| akamyshnikova | hi | 14:03 |
| sbelous_ | hi | 14:03 |
| * ihrachys waves those who join | 14:03 | |
| ihrachys | now, let's look at what we have for Mitaka | 14:03 |
| pc_m | hi | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | 1. RC2 is tagged: | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/295398/ | 14:04 |
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| ihrachys | unless something really bad is spotted in Mitaka, this will be our final | 14:04 |
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| amuller | Quite an accomplishment :) | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | atm we are not aware of anything that would require another RC | 14:04 |
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| ihrachys | but if you do, you should yell right now | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | now, as you probably know, there is a new process to track feature deliverables for Mitaka called 'post mortem' | 14:05 |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/286413/ | 14:05 |
| ihrachys | your glorious PTL kindly asks everyone involved to get thru the list again and fill in gaps if any | 14:06 |
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| ihrachys | if all goes right, RC2 is the final, and we will celebrate the git hashes; and Armando will be able to have some rest. | 14:06 |
| ihrachys | that said, not for long! | 14:07 |
| ihrachys | for Newton, we have schedule posted: | 14:07 |
| ihrachys | #link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 14:07 |
| * ihrachys kindly suggest to check whether it makes sense for us | 14:07 | |
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| reedip__ | So next week is the final release , lucky number 13... | 14:08 |
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| ihrachys | heh | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | since master is now open for Newton, please rush to propose your new cool features for Newton :) | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | note that there are some tweaks for the RFE process made for Newton: | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/296120/ | 14:09 |
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| dasm | ihrachys: big refactor for tenant_id->project_id is retargeted for Newton \o/ | 14:10 |
| ihrachys | specifically, now every RFE will have a blueprint posted [even if a stub], and an approver from the active team members will be assigned to those features approved by drivers team. | 14:10 |
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| ihrachys | the goal is to make sure that all RFEs have dedicated reviewers assigned that will be responsible for working with implementers to get it in | 14:11 |
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| HenryG | Also note that our fearless PTL has declared that "Stability is the priority" for Newton. That probably means less features will be approved this time. | 14:11 |
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| * njohnston is wondering if this spec can merge now, since the code implementing it has already merged? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190285/ | 14:12 | |
| ihrachys | I approve this message ^ | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | :-) | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | njohnston: yes. we'll get back to it in next weeks. | 14:12 |
| hichihara | Who are "active team members"? | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | should be a no-issue | 14:12 |
| hichihara | Does it mean core team? | 14:13 |
| njohnston | OK, I wasn't sure if there was a freeze that would thaw on neutron-specs at a particular point in time. | 14:13 |
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| ihrachys | hichihara: I don't think there is strict definition, but the group definitely includes core reviewers plus some more seasoned folks. | 14:13 |
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| hichihara | ihrachys: I got it. Thanks. | 14:13 |
| ihrachys | hichihara: the main point in having an approver is to make someone care about review velocity on daily/weekly basis | 14:13 |
| reedip__ | What about the status of neutronclient ?? | 14:13 |
| ihrachys | hichihara: in theory, if someone is active but is not core, and the person pulls proper reviewers into patches and makes sure the process is smooth, then it can be any person. | 14:14 |
| reedip__ | not to play a spoiltsport, but it seems there are several reviews open there, for a long time now ... | 14:14 |
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| ihrachys | reedip__: elaborate? | 14:14 |
| amotoki | reedip__: what do you mean? | 14:14 |
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| hichihara | ihrachys: make sense | 14:15 |
| amotoki | we maintain neutronclient (CLI side) until OSC has feature compat and after that we maintain library side. | 14:15 |
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| ihrachys | reedip: are they critical, or they may wait until reviewers get to them? | 14:15 |
| reedip__ | ihrachys : not all of them, but I have been trying to get the focus of reviewers on one of the item , but failed to do so ... | 14:16 |
| reedip__ | If this is the right forum, then I can bring it up now... | 14:16 |
| ihrachys | in ideal world, all patches will get immediate response. in reality, reviewers need to prioritize, so it's not uncommon to leave some patches off the plate for some time, especially when everyone deals with release stuff. | 14:17 |
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| ihrachys | reedip__: let's discuss it in #openstack-neutron channel after the meeting. | 14:17 |
| reedip__ | okay , got it ihrachys | 14:17 |
| ihrachys | ok, one more thing to note while we are in the announcement section | 14:17 |
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| ihrachys | Armando started to collect ideas for the design sessions we'll have | 14:17 |
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| ihrachys | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-neutron-summit-ideas | 14:18 |
| ihrachys | he will work on crafting some draft schedule for Neutron this week | 14:18 |
| ihrachys | I suggest you update the etherpad with your ideas, if you have some and if you haven't already done it. | 14:18 |
| amuller | The number of suggestions is surprisingly low | 14:18 |
| amuller | Where is everyone's ideas? | 14:19 |
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| amuller | Now's your time! | 14:19 |
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| ihrachys | that's a good marketing pitch | 14:19 |
| ihrachys | so... do as Assaf told ^ he is a wise guy :) | 14:20 |
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| ihrachys | I think that's it for announcements. anyone else having another announcement to make? | 14:20 |
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| ihrachys | ok, moving on | 14:21 |
| ihrachys | #topic Bugs | 14:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:21 | |
| HenryG | Very quiet week on bugs | 14:21 |
| HenryG | Only one worth mentioning | 14:21 |
| HenryG | It showed up last night | 14:21 |
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| HenryG | Bug 1563028 | 14:22 |
| openstack | bug 1563028 in Trove "Routes version 2.3 broke the way we register routes" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1563028 - Assigned to Amrith (amrith) | 14:22 |
| HenryG | Affects Neutron too | 14:22 |
| ihrachys | HenryG: we are guarded with constraints, right? | 14:22 |
| amuller | ihrachys: yeah | 14:22 |
| HenryG | ihrachys: yes, but for how long? | 14:22 |
| amuller | HenryG: Do we have a process for detecting stuff like this? | 14:22 |
| amuller | I mean, how was that bug noticed? | 14:22 |
| HenryG | amuller: I don't know | 14:23 |
| amuller | was it just a manual / chance thing? | 14:23 |
| ihrachys | amuller: the gate for upper constraints file update, which is in requirements repo | 14:23 |
| amotoki | I think g-r change detects it hopefully | 14:23 |
| amuller | ihrachys: when we try to apply the version bump to neutron, or in the global requirements repo change? | 14:23 |
| amotoki | I mean g-r change jenkins check, but it does not cover all. | 14:23 |
| ihrachys | as long as there is a job in their gate to catch it, it should trigger the failure. | 14:23 |
| ihrachys | amuller: upper constraints are managed in single place - in requirements repo | 14:23 |
| HenryG | Anyway, the fix is easy if someone wants to take it. Just do like the Trove fix. | 14:23 |
| amuller | ihrachys: if we're only detecting this via the g-r repo CI then we obviously have a huge hole there | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | amuller: once the bump lands there, it immediately applies to all projects | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | amuller: there is no hole. the idea is that we should add more specific jobs to g-r gate for constraints file if current list is not enough to catch something. | 14:24 |
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| amuller | ihrachys: right since our tox.ini just picks up the reqs from global repo | 14:24 |
| amuller | ihrachys: so the vision is to add dozens of jobs to g-r repo? Doesn't seem like a scalable approach =D | 14:25 |
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| ihrachys | amuller: only 'representative' list of those jobs. | 14:25 |
| ihrachys | amuller: and to trigger them only for constraints bumps | 14:25 |
| ihrachys | obviously, sometimes the mechanism will fail, which will indicate the need to expand the coverage for one of those jobs, or add a new one. | 14:26 |
| * amuller nods | 14:26 | |
| ihrachys | no silver bullet. but it's worth checking whether the Routes bug we started discussion from is indeed triggered in the g-r gate | 14:26 |
| amotoki | at least we can avoid a situation where all fails | 14:27 |
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| * HenryG sees Cedric has assigned himself the bug | 14:27 | |
| amuller | amotoki: Of course this is much better than before we had upper constraints :) | 14:27 |
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| ihrachys | right. without constraints, we would currently run in fire drill mode trying to manage gate casualties | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | HenryG: thanks for the update and taking on the job. | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | this week amotoki is the deputy | 14:29 |
| amotoki | yeah | 14:29 |
| ihrachys | we need a volunteer for the next week Apr4- | 14:29 |
| ihrachys | anyone? | 14:29 |
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| * ihrachys notes that it's not necessarily a core reviewer | 14:29 | |
| dasm | ihrachys: i thought we're replaying all deputies | 14:29 |
| ihrachys | dasm: replaying == ? | 14:29 |
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| dasm | starting from beginning of list of deputies | 14:30 |
| HenryG | recycling? | 14:30 |
| ihrachys | :D | 14:30 |
| ihrachys | no, it did not happen | 14:30 |
| reedip__ | ihrachys: I can try ... | 14:30 |
| dasm | HenryG: recycling won't work. everything will be scratched :) | 14:30 |
| dasm | reedip__: ++ | 14:30 |
| ihrachys | reedip__: ok great. please sync with me or armax or amotoki on the process. | 14:30 |
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| hichihara | reedip__: Cool | 14:31 |
| HenryG | Go reedip__ !! | 14:31 |
| reedip__ | ihrachys : yes, I will | 14:31 |
| ihrachys | reedip++ | 14:31 |
| ihrachys | WOOHOO | 14:31 |
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| ihrachys | ok, I am back from excitement | 14:31 |
| ihrachys | one more thing to cover in the Bugs section before we move on | 14:31 |
| ihrachys | our tremendous PTL would like us to become more aware of what's going on with the gate | 14:32 |
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| ihrachys | we have lots of jobs in check queue, lots of them non-voting | 14:32 |
| ihrachys | often times they are failing | 14:32 |
| ihrachys | with no clear understanding of when they will get in better shape to allow enabling votes for them | 14:32 |
| ihrachys | (which is the supposed end goal for any job added to the check queue) | 14:33 |
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| ihrachys | #link http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate?panelId=5&fullscreen | 14:33 |
| ihrachys | that's one of the dashboards that show sad state for some jobs we have | 14:34 |
| ihrachys | fullstack is 50% failure rate :-| | 14:34 |
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| ihrachys | functional is at 15% | 14:34 |
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| HenryG | fullstack fixes are in queue | 14:34 |
| dasm | HenryG: link? | 14:34 |
| ihrachys | HenryG: hopefully yes | 14:35 |
| hichihara | fullstack is OK for me because of non-voting but functional test is bad ;) | 14:35 |
| HenryG | I agree functional is worrysome | 14:35 |
| ihrachys | we will need to have specific people assigned to jobs we have to provide reports about gate state | 14:35 |
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| ihrachys | one idea is e.g. to have bug deputy provide that kind of report. or that will be another role for that. | 14:35 |
| ihrachys | the main point is obviously not the report itself | 14:36 |
| ihrachys | but getting traction and actual fixes in, and getting jobs voting | 14:36 |
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| HenryG | dasm: the main one is https://review.openstack.org/298056 | 14:36 |
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| ihrachys | if the community CANNOT manage the number of jobs, we may need to discontinue some of them. | 14:36 |
| dasm | HenryG: thx | 14:36 |
| ihrachys | which would be a sad story for everyone | 14:36 |
| njohnston | +1 to having another role, someone to provide long term oversight and who can recognize patterns, which is a very specific set of eqpertise you have to work at | 14:37 |
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| njohnston | expertise | 14:37 |
| HenryG | I need to check the PG job and see if we can make it voting again | 14:37 |
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| dasm | njohnston: ++ | 14:37 |
| ihrachys | so I encourage folks that have jobs for their respective components/features/jobs to take another look on the set we have and make visible progress there | 14:37 |
| ihrachys | it is probably in line with the vision that PTL has for the release to be more focused on code stabilization than new features. | 14:38 |
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| hichihara | The role needs infra, devstack, tempest, neutron, and so on. not easy. | 14:38 |
| ihrachys | I am not actually sure the role should cover the deep dive into logs. even making the team aware about current pain points and stabilization patches up for review would make a huge difference. | 14:39 |
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| amotoki | the role can raise stability problem at least | 14:40 |
| ihrachys | anyhow, I will leave it up to PTL to cover the details. I think Armando should come up with some specific proposal to get us back on track with the gate. | 14:40 |
| amotoki | it is very good start | 14:40 |
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| ihrachys | amotoki: right. even someone who merely notifies e.g. dvr or linuxbridge folks about their job starting to misbehave 'this Monday' would help us a lot to manage problems in due manner. | 14:41 |
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| amotoki | indeed | 14:41 |
| ihrachys | ok, let's move on | 14:42 |
| ihrachys | #topic Docs | 14:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:42 | |
| ihrachys | I don't see Sam-I-Am around. prolly may need to skip the section. | 14:42 |
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| ihrachys | #topic Open Agenda | 14:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Agenda (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:43 | |
| ihrachys | I don't see any specific topics in the agenda | 14:43 |
| ihrachys | ok, then I will just throw my itch here :) | 14:43 |
| ihrachys | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/090235.html | 14:43 |
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| ihrachys | as some of you probably know, we ran proactive backporting effort during Mitaka dev cycle | 14:44 |
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| ihrachys | we basically backported a lot of fixes to stable branches in a more systemic way | 14:44 |
| ihrachys | that said, we have not seen enough diversity in contributions | 14:44 |
| ihrachys | I *hope* that stable branches are of interest to different groups in the community | 14:45 |
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| ihrachys | so I encourage those folks to read the link and get involved in the process. in the end, it helps everyone who relies on stable branches (which, I suspect, is 80%+ of users we have) | 14:46 |
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| haleyb | yes, especially the dvr fixes :) | 14:46 |
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| ihrachys | haleyb: especially dvr: fixes are often times quite twisted and require domain knowledge from those who work actively on the feature. | 14:46 |
| haleyb | ihrachys: i will look at the l3/dvr fixes, i have the page up somewhere | 14:47 |
| ihrachys | it would be cool to see more active contributors to master to spend some cycles on delivering fixes to users thru stable pipeline. | 14:47 |
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| haleyb | for backports | 14:47 |
| ihrachys | haleyb: thanks! | 14:47 |
| ihrachys | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/stable-bug-candidates-from-master | 14:47 |
| ihrachys | ^ that's the etherpad where we currently manage the list of work items for potential backports. | 14:47 |
| amotoki | as you may know, when you are involved in the stabler branches, please read the stable branch policy! | 14:48 |
| ihrachys | yeah, right. it's linked in the etherpad, but just in case: | 14:48 |
| amotoki | especially http://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#appropriate-fixes | 14:48 |
| ihrachys | #link http://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html | 14:48 |
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| ihrachys | ok, I made my pitch :) | 14:49 |
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| ihrachys | anyone else with something for the open agenda/ | 14:49 |
| ihrachys | ? | 14:49 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: I noticed that you have serveral references to a tool that you uses some get some data. I'm wondering where is that tool | 14:49 |
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| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: oh that's actually still in review but: | 14:49 |
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| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack-infra/release-tools+owner:%22Ihar+Hrachyshka+%253Cihrachys%2540redhat.com%253E%22 | 14:49 |
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| electrocucaracha | got it, thanks | 14:50 |
| ihrachys | I will post more tools for the process in the next weeks. | 14:50 |
| ihrachys | ok, I guess we can call it a day. thanks everyone for joining the meeting! | 14:50 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 14:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #telemetry)" | 14:51 | |
| dasm | thanks. c'ya | 14:51 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 29 14:51:01 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-03-29-14.01.html | 14:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-03-29-14.01.txt | 14:51 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-03-29-14.01.log.html | 14:51 |
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| hichihara | bye | 14:51 |
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| hoangcx | Thanks ihrachys. Bye | 14:51 |
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| xgerman | o/ | 14:52 |
| akamyshnikova | bye | 14:52 |
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| carl_baldwin | hi | 15:00 |
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| haleyb | hi | 15:00 |
| mlavalle | hi | 15:00 |
| carl_baldwin | #startmeeting neutron_routed_networks | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 29 15:00:27 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is carl_baldwin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_routed_networks' | 15:00 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Announcements | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:00 | |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-Routed-Networks | 15:00 |
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| carl_baldwin | We had one patch merge! | 15:01 |
| mlavalle | yaay | 15:01 |
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| carl_baldwin | It was the patch by gongysh and mlavalle to move the networksegments table to make it available to all plugins. | 15:01 |
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| carl_baldwin | Thank you mlavalle for jumping in and taking care of the migration aspects of that change. I know that wasn't trivial. | 15:02 |
| mlavalle | :-) | 15:02 |
| mlavalle | I learned a few things | 15:02 |
| mlavalle | so thank you | 15:02 |
| carl_baldwin | I'm hoping we can get a steady pace of merging small but meaningful changes like this. | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/296603/ | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | ^ Next up to merge. I think it is good to go. It passed tests but I noticed a merge conflict was going to hit it and rebased preemptively. | 15:04 |
| reedip__ | hi | 15:04 |
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| * carl_baldwin truly thinks small meaningful patches is the best way to get things merged. | 15:05 | |
| carl_baldwin | Any other announcements? | 15:05 |
| carl_baldwin | Okay, let's move on to discuss progress. | 15:06 |
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| carl_baldwin | I already hit the first two points, the next one is... | 15:06 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic IPAM | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "IPAM (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:07 | |
| carl_baldwin | I started working on some IPAM aspects yesterday and I think I might have a plan forward. | 15:07 |
| neiljerram | Interesting! | 15:07 |
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| carl_baldwin | Basically, the thought is to introduce groups to IPAM. When we create a subnet, we'll pass in a group_id to IPAM to record with the subnet. | 15:08 |
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| carl_baldwin | Of course, we'll have to have a way to ask the plugin if it supports the feature because we'll require it for segments support. | 15:09 |
| neiljerram | What does the group_id represent? | 15:09 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: a group! | 15:10 |
| * carl_baldwin kidding | 15:10 | |
| neiljerram | :-) | 15:10 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: I was thinking a group of subnets within the network. I'm not sure yet if it needs to be more than that. | 15:11 |
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| carl_baldwin | When we want an IP allocation from the network, we pass in the group id (or None). IPAM will select subnets matching the group for allocation. | 15:12 |
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| carl_baldwin | I was thinking we could also somehow configure it for hard or soft boundaries (does IPAM go outside the group if there are no more IPs left in the group). | 15:12 |
| carl_baldwin | I hope to have some code up soon to illustrate how it will work. | 15:13 |
| neiljerram | Sounds interesting, although I'm afraid I'm not yet seeing the idea fully.... | 15:13 |
| neiljerram | Out of interest, are you thinking of adding this into the existing spec, or of finishing that one up and starting a separate one? | 15:14 |
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| neiljerram | I'd say probably better to bank the existing one first. | 15:14 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: I was thinking of doing this under the current spec. | 15:14 |
| neiljerram | I'm sure that would be fine too! | 15:15 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Your desire, if I understand, is to group cidrs by host for route aggregation, right? You could map hosts to a group. My desire is to group them by segment. | 15:16 |
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| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, Correct. So in general the idea of generalizing that grouping sounds good. | 15:16 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: It isn't a fully baked idea yet. But, I wanted to bring it up for discussion. I'll take it to the ML today. | 15:17 |
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| egon | Do you have an etherpad, or something for fleshing out ideas? | 15:18 |
| carl_baldwin | It might even be possible to work in what haleyb is working on with service subnets. I'll have to think about that. | 15:18 |
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| carl_baldwin | egon: Not for this one at the moment. | 15:18 |
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| carl_baldwin | egon: That might be the way to go. Watch the ML for the moment. | 15:19 |
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| egon | There's a few use cases that might benefit from being able to be "guided" into a CIDR block, or tenants/users restricted from using one. | 15:19 |
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| egon | It does matter as much until you get BYO CIDR... | 15:19 |
| egon | er.. does not. | 15:20 |
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| carl_baldwin | #action carl_baldwin will post to the ML about IPAM subnet groups (or whatever we decide to call them). | 15:20 |
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| carl_baldwin | Anything else for right now on this subject? | 15:20 |
| neiljerram | Am I right in thinking that Neutron already allows a Network to have multiple Subnets? If so, then there are already IPAM things that I don't understand - which subnet is used. | 15:21 |
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| neiljerram | But don't need to cover that now - sorry! | 15:21 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Yes, it does. Let's take it to the ML. That is a good point. It is important to understand how IPAM handles that. | 15:22 |
| reedip__ | neiljerram: a network can have multiple subnets in neutron | 15:22 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic Nova Scheduler | 15:22 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova Scheduler (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:22 | |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: hi again. | 15:22 |
| mlavalle | hi | 15:22 |
| mlavalle | so I have been attending the Nova scheduler meetings to make sure we keep the Nova attention team on our spec | 15:23 |
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| carl_baldwin | jaypipes pinged me this morning to have a discussion about this over Hangouts. | 15:23 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/263898 | 15:23 |
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| mlavalle | We have agreed that the routed networks spec for Nova will be discussed weekly during that meeting | 15:24 |
| carl_baldwin | He's going to ping me at 3pm MDT. | 15:24 |
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| mlavalle | yeah, he pinged me at the same time | 15:24 |
| mlavalle | so I will join the conversation | 15:24 |
| carl_baldwin | Have you all seen this diagram? | 15:24 |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4AotMGstEW6TE5XdzMxWXhHa3M/view?usp=sharing | 15:24 |
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| neiljerram | I have now - great diagram. | 15:25 |
| carl_baldwin | It is sort of a state diagram showing the three paths from no port to a VM with an IP. | 15:25 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Thanks, it was getting too difficult for me to keep thinking about it in my head. | 15:26 |
| carl_baldwin | ... and remember some of the more subtle transitions. | 15:26 |
| neiljerram | IIUC from the spec, there is at least one common scenario where it's already true that Neutron does its IP allocation _after_ Nova has chosen the compute host. | 15:26 |
| mlavalle | as background for the team, we see 3 use cases from the nova perspective: nova creates the port, nova receives a port with no ip address and nova recived a port with ip address | 15:26 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: exactly, thanks. | 15:26 |
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| neiljerram | Which one happens if you use Horizon and just specify the network to attach to? | 15:27 |
| mlavalle | for the first 2, we think we have specified the mechanism needed to handle them | 15:27 |
| carl_baldwin | We haven't made as much progress on this as I'd hoped in the last week. I was hoping for at least two more comments like mlavalle 's on the spec. | 15:27 |
| carl_baldwin | Thank you mlavalle for spelling out your proposal on the spec. | 15:27 |
| mlavalle | the difficult one is the third one | 15:27 |
| neiljerram | I'm sorry - I did read, but didn't comment. | 15:27 |
| mlavalle | last night I came up with a rough idea of another approach | 15:28 |
| mlavalle | I call it "eventually nova consistent" approach | 15:28 |
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| mlavalle | in this approach we let nova's view to become outdated for brief periods of time | 15:28 |
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| mlavalle | I will add it as comment to the spec later today | 15:29 |
| mlavalle | the idea came to me last night after yoga class | 15:29 |
| mlavalle | my intent is to minimize the synchronization needed between nova and neutron | 15:29 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: I'll call it the "yoga solution". ;) | 15:30 |
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| mlavalle | the conversation with jaypipes later today will be useful to flesh out this idea | 15:30 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Another approach I'm thinking about is talked about in the state diagram above (#2 at the top). I'll give that some more thought too. | 15:30 |
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| neiljerram | ( carl_baldwin - about that diagram, actually it's rather small to read easily, and goes fuzzy when I try to enlarge it... ) | 15:31 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: You need to "open" it in your browser. | 15:31 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, I did, I think.. | 15:32 |
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| mlavalle | neiljerram: going back to your comment, the use case that happens in horizon is nova creates the port | 15:32 |
| reedip__ | How to open int in the browser? | 15:32 |
| neiljerram | mlavalle, thanks. I'll re-read the spec and comment this time! | 15:32 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: After clicking the link, at the top there is an "open with" which creates yet another tab in your browser. | 15:32 |
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| carl_baldwin | reedip__: ^ | 15:33 |
| carl_baldwin | Make sense? | 15:33 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: one thing I think we also need to clarify today with Jay is how resources are released in resource pools | 15:33 |
| reedip__ | got it opened | 15:33 |
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| reedip__ | thanks carl_baldwin | 15:34 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: I haven't seen that spelled out in any of the specs | 15:34 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: ++ | 15:34 |
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| carl_baldwin | Anything more we can / should discuss on this now? We've got a couple of other things. | 15:34 |
| carl_baldwin | Okay, moving on | 15:35 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Host / Segment mapping | 15:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Host / Segment mapping (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:35 | |
| mlavalle | hi again | 15:35 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, that only gives me web-based options, including draw.io which asked for access to my google drive... All I want is a decent resolution .png or .svg download... | 15:35 |
| mlavalle | I saw your comment to the patchset yesterday | 15:35 |
| carl_baldwin | The thing that came up here is if we should continue with the assumption that we are only going to map hosts to physical networks or if we should do true host / segment mapping. | 15:35 |
| mlavalle | #url https://review.openstack.org/#/c/285548/ | 15:36 |
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| mlavalle | so I spent a chunk of the afternoon going through the other patchset | 15:36 |
| mlavalle | #url https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205631 | 15:36 |
| mlavalle | yes, it useful | 15:36 |
| mlavalle | it is useful | 15:37 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: I'll post something else. | 15:37 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, thanks! | 15:37 |
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| neiljerram | So, is that assumption ML2-specific, or implementation-related? | 15:38 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: could you explain further the difference between phys net mapping and segment mapping? | 15:38 |
| neiljerram | Or is it something represented in the API / data model? | 15:38 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: No, it isn't ML2 only. | 15:38 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: It is a data model now and could be reflected in plugin API. | 15:39 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: A segment is more than a physical network. It adds segmentation id and type. | 15:39 |
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| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: correct. But a segment maps to a physnet, correct? | 15:40 |
| mlavalle | and it has its added attributes | 15:40 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: That is the thing we're thing to determine. | 15:40 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: I was looking here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205631/33/neutron/tests/unit/plugins/ml2/test_plugin.py | 15:41 |
| carl_baldwin | I guess my question is are there valid reasons to need multiple segments within a physical network. | 15:41 |
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| neiljerram | It seems to me that segment is the established concept in Neutron, so I'd be inclined to map to that. | 15:41 |
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| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: I am not clear on that. However, the code I see in the patchset I just mentioned suggests that segments and phys nets map 1 to 1 | 15:42 |
| neiljerram | Well, multiple VLANs on a single physical network... | 15:42 |
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| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: so I was thinking to ping Kevin Benton later today and have this conversation | 15:44 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Should we take this to the ML? | 15:44 |
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| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: good idea. I'll send a message as soon as we finish this meeting | 15:44 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Thanks. | 15:45 |
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| carl_baldwin | #action mlavalle will post to the ML about host mapping (are segments 1-1 with physical networks?) | 15:45 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic Create / delete segment in ML2 | 15:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Create / delete segment in ML2 (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:46 | |
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| carl_baldwin | I briefly started looking at this but decided to put it on the back burner. | 15:46 |
| carl_baldwin | Right now, I have a patch up that enables segments API in ML2 but only to view segments created through provider and multi-provider extensions. | 15:47 |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/296658 | 15:47 |
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| carl_baldwin | The reason is that it may not be trivial to enable create / delete on segments with an existing network. | 15:47 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/284440 | 15:48 |
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| carl_baldwin | Separating this out let's me focus on the IPAM aspects we already discussed. | 15:48 |
| carl_baldwin | Is anyone familiar enough with segments and ML2 who would like to try to progress this further? | 15:48 |
| neiljerram | I've spent time trying to understand that - but probably not enough yet to really help. | 15:50 |
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| carl_baldwin | Ok, get the word out that this could use some attention. It should ideally be someone already familiar with ML2. | 15:50 |
| carl_baldwin | I'll leave it on the back burner while we make progress in other areas. | 15:51 |
| carl_baldwin | However, it would be really restrictive to not be able to add segments to an existing network in the long run. | 15:51 |
| carl_baldwin | :) | 15:51 |
| mlavalle | indeed | 15:51 |
| carl_baldwin | Also, making some progress on this in parallel with other efforts would be a big win! | 15:52 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Segment aware DHCP | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Segment aware DHCP (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:52 | |
| carl_baldwin | A related patch merged yesterday | 15:52 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/205631 | 15:53 |
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| carl_baldwin | (already mentioned by mlavalle in this meeting) | 15:53 |
| mlavalle | yeah, it sheds light on our efforts | 15:53 |
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| carl_baldwin | This is another area that is up for grabs. In terms of difficulty it might be a little bit easier than the create / delete segments one. | 15:54 |
| carl_baldwin | I have ZZelle in mind for this but I'm not sure of his availability. | 15:54 |
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| carl_baldwin | #action carl_baldwin will ping ZZelle (and maybe amuller) about helping us to make progress in this area. | 15:55 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Client | 15:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Client (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:55 | |
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| carl_baldwin | Anyone here to discuss the client? | 15:55 |
| mlavalle | rtheis: ^^^ | 15:56 |
| rtheis | here | 15:56 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Thanks, I was just looking up the spelling of rtheis 's nic. | 15:56 |
| reedip__ | present | 15:56 |
| carl_baldwin | reedip__: Hi | 15:56 |
| mlavalle | yeah reedip__ is also helping here :-) | 15:56 |
| rtheis | carl_baldwin: I have the OSC patches out as WIP | 15:57 |
| carl_baldwin | rtheis: cool | 15:57 |
| rtheis | I will update them with name and description support as soon as that works | 15:57 |
| carl_baldwin | I hope to have another API change up for review adding segment_id to subnets. That'll be the next thing to need client support. | 15:57 |
| reedip__ | I will follow up on my work of name and desc with the PROPER checkouts | 15:57 |
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| rtheis | ok | 15:58 |
| reedip__ | carl_baldwin: okay | 15:58 |
| carl_baldwin | It'll be a new patch set on an existing review | 15:58 |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/288774 | 15:58 |
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| carl_baldwin | reedip__: Thanks. | 15:59 |
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| * carl_baldwin notes time | 15:59 | |
| rtheis | carl_baldwin: One item that I'm pondering is where this OSC code should live...python-openstackclient or python-neutronclient (as OS plugin) | 15:59 |
| rtheis | the network segment CLI that is | 15:59 |
| rtheis | seems like this is core and should go in OSC | 15:59 |
| rtheis | that's were I'm leaning | 16:00 |
| carl_baldwin | rtheis: I think you're the resident expert for deciding that. | 16:00 |
| carl_baldwin | ;) | 16:00 |
| rtheis | :) | 16:00 |
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| carl_baldwin | Okay, we're out of time. | 16:00 |
| reedip__ | plugin wont make a strong sense here | 16:00 |
| carl_baldwin | #endmeet | 16:00 |
| rtheis | opinions welcome | 16:00 |
| carl_baldwin | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #telemetry)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 29 16:00:28 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-03-29-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| reedip__ | OSC should be preferred | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-03-29-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-03-29-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
| mlavalle | thanks! | 16:00 |
| rtheis | thanks reedip__ | 16:00 |
| reedip__ | darn it... just missed the logs :D | 16:00 |
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| neiljerram | bye! | 16:01 |
| carl_baldwin | Thanks, all! | 16:01 |
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| reedip__ | good morning o/ | 16:01 |
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| carl_baldwin | kevinbenton: ping, addressed your feedback on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/296603/ | 16:23 |
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| ayoung | lets do this | 17:59 |
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| stevemar | ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, MaxPC, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tjcocozz, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek | 17:59 |
| ayoung | KEYSTONE HO!!!!! | 17:59 |
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| rderose | o/ | 17:59 |
| stevemar | ping for keystone meeting! | 18:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 18:00 |
| raildo | \o/ | 18:00 |
| tsymanczyk | \o | 18:00 |
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| topol | o/ | 18:00 |
| roxanaghe_ | \o | 18:00 |
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| tjcocozz | \o | 18:00 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 29 18:00:39 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| ayoung | \m/ (-v-) \m/ | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:00 |
| stevemar | agenda ^ | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | #topic Keystone RC status | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone RC status (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| stevemar | we actually have 2 release blockers, reported yesterday :( | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bugs?field.tag=mitaka-rc-potential | 18:01 |
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| ayoung | morgan, do you havethe PG stuff undercontrol? | 18:01 |
| stevemar | migration fails for long running deployments, and one postgres bug | 18:01 |
| ayoung | postgresql | 18:01 |
| morgan | ayoung: huh? | 18:01 |
| morgan | ayoung: the migration 88 one needs unit tests | 18:02 |
| morgan | the migraion 91 one i haven't had time to explore/figure out what is going on | 18:02 |
| stevemar | and the migration 091 one needs eyes | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | I'll take it | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | so, if anyone else wants to take a look, please do ! | 18:02 |
| shaleh | stevemar: do we not have anything like this automated? | 18:02 |
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| crinkle | fwiw i can't reproduce the 091 issue for the life of me | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | crinkle: you are using postgres for your db? | 18:03 |
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| morgan | 91 might be PGSQL only | 18:03 |
| crinkle | stevemar: yep | 18:03 |
| morgan | hm. | 18:03 |
| crinkle | i am sure ayoung will have better luck | 18:03 |
| morgan | this might be another "long running environment issue" =/ | 18:03 |
| ayoung | stevemar, link to where it is failing? | 18:03 |
| ayoung | might be something in the log | 18:03 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:03 |
| ayoung | and it might be a DB version | 18:04 |
| stevemar | shaleh: not really, this is because the deployment was using havana and kept upgrading... his db didn't have some constraints apparently | 18:04 |
| ayoung | morgan, We would see that error if the migration had already run | 18:04 |
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| rderose | i wonder if the issue is with this: use_labels=True | 18:04 |
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| rderose | in the select | 18:04 |
| henrynash | (missed the start - this is the role name issue, I assume?) | 18:04 |
| ayoung | the way the migration works is i makes a join, and the cols have names like user_password and local_user_password, but at the end, it drops the password column | 18:04 |
| shaleh | stevemar: sounds like something we should have floating though. Install the release, put the vms to sleep, wake them up near the end for a round of testing. | 18:04 |
| morgan | henrynash: no the password one | 18:04 |
| henrynash | oohhhh | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | hi, here now | 18:05 |
| morgan | henrynash: the role_name one is mostly under control [just needs unit tests] | 18:05 |
| stevemar | henrynash: there are 2 bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1562934 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1562965 | 18:05 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1562934 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) newton "liberty -> mitaka db migrate fails when constraint names are inconsistent" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Morgan Fainberg (mdrnstm) | 18:05 |
| shaleh | \o | 18:05 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, I would have preferred we had done the drop in a separate migration, in the future | 18:05 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1562965 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) " liberty -> mitaka db migrate fails on postgresql 091 migration" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Adam Young (ayoung) | 18:05 |
| henrynash | morgan: ok | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | one is 086, the other is 091 | 18:05 |
| morgan | stevemar: 088 | 18:05 |
| stevemar | oops, 088* | 18:05 |
| stevemar | one has a fix, the other not so much | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, let me get a linkto the failure | 18:06 |
| stevemar | crinkle: the originator is prometheanfire, he's been hanging out in the -keystone channel and has been very helpful in testing out patches | 18:06 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I think that is spurious | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, are we seeing the failure in a gatejob? | 18:07 |
| morgan | ayoung: neither of these show in the gate | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | morgan, its not an erro | 18:08 |
| ayoung | morgan, he was running these by hand | 18:08 |
| stevemar | ayoung: nope, not in the gates | 18:08 |
| ayoung | the migration is not designed to run multiple times | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | I discussed with him last night | 18:08 |
| morgan | ayoung: oh 91 was a multiple run issue? | 18:08 |
| ayoung | yep | 18:08 |
| morgan | i know 88 wasn't. | 18:08 |
| ayoung | morgan, that may be | 18:08 |
| morgan | ok lets close 91 as "invalid" | 18:08 |
| ayoung | will do | 18:08 |
| morgan | if that is the case. | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | I'll past in the chat fragment | 18:08 |
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| morgan | yeah, migrations are not always idempotent | 18:09 |
| stevemar | easiest way to close bugs -- mark them as invalid | 18:09 |
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| samueldmq | I thought we had a job running with other dbs e.g postgress | 18:09 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: we do, but the originator has had the same db since havana | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | should be good to have with the dbs we are supposed to support | 18:10 |
| morgan | samueldmq: we do. the issue with 88 isn't related to pgsql, it just happens that the first person to upgrade was on pgsql | 18:10 |
| stevemar | he has all sorts of constraints that we may not look for now, since we squashed migrations | 18:10 |
| morgan | the lesson learned here is "do not assume the constraint/index names are known, always programatically find them" | 18:10 |
| stevemar | yep | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | morgan: ++ | 18:10 |
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| henrynash | morgan: so that is a real change…we should add this to developemnt.rst | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | is he trying to upgrade havana -> liberty? | 18:11 |
| shaleh | henrynash: I was thinking the same thing | 18:11 |
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| stevemar | samueldmq: no, every release he does the db migration | 18:11 |
| morgan | henrynash: i think we should prob. add to developing.rst - it's not really a "change" it's something we kindof ignored in the past | 18:11 |
| stevemar | he's been running the same deployment since havana :) | 18:11 |
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| henrynash | morgan: agreed | 18:11 |
| ayoung | DO we have an upgrade path from Havana? | 18:11 |
| morgan | and if he hits it with a havana deploy... this bug is likely to hit a significant number of deploys | 18:12 |
| ayoung | Anyway, he had 8 users in his database...I think he's going to be OK | 18:12 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: oh, that's good he's been running since there | 18:12 |
| henrynash | ayoung: not directly | 18:12 |
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| morgan | ayoung: it's not direct - it's "if you deployed havana and updated through current" | 18:12 |
| morgan | havan -> mitaka directly is not supported | 18:12 |
| stevemar | ayoung: he upgrades his db every 6 months... but his initial db is from havana | 18:12 |
| ayoung | ah | 18:12 |
| morgan | so anyone who hasn't done a wipe/redeploy from scratch since havana would be hit by this bug | 18:13 |
| ayoung | ok...anyway, I think he got this error trying to debug the other, and doing so by hand | 18:13 |
| morgan | regardless of the db (except HP cause mongo) | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: so some constraints have the old names ? | 18:13 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: likely | 18:13 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: I didn't quite catch the issue ... maybe we mad a mistake in our migrations ? | 18:13 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: maybe the constraints were renamed in the squash, who knows | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: like we intended to change the constraint but didn't .. | 18:13 |
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| ayoung | we good? | 18:13 |
| morgan | stevemar: the constraints were named differently depending on if they were automatically named or explicitly named | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: yes, squash is something very very hard to do | 18:14 |
| bknudson | it's probably sqlalchemy changed how it assigns names. | 18:14 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: do we really need to do it ? | 18:14 |
| morgan | stevemar: and that automatic name is different based on sql-alchemy, mysql versions, pgsql versions, etc | 18:14 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: maybe, good point | 18:14 |
| henrynash | …and the squash removes the old code where the constaint was created by hand | 18:14 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: ^ | 18:14 |
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| morgan | samueldmq: the squash is to make upgrading / maintaingin migrations with oslo.db updates easier. | 18:14 |
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| morgan | basically we had a ot of cruft that did things the "old" way and likely this bug would have still occured as we fixed migrations to be more modern | 18:15 |
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| morgan | since the code would have had to be significant refactored anyway | 18:15 |
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| bknudson | the reason nova started squashing was because their unit tests were taking forever. | 18:15 |
| morgan | bknudson: that too. | 18:15 |
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| samueldmq | maybe we should put explicit names on everything | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | not even trust sqlalchemy naming | 18:16 |
| morgan | samueldmq: we do now. | 18:16 |
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| stevemar | yep | 18:16 |
| morgan | don't expect a name to be known still | 18:16 |
| morgan | programatically find it | 18:16 |
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| morgan | it prevents typos in names from impacting your migrations/wedging things/etc | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | morgan: makes sense | 18:17 |
| stevemar | so, please review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298402/ and if someone wants to write unit tests, go ahead :) | 18:17 |
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| stevemar | i'm slammed in meetings all afternoon, but if no one picks it up, i may | 18:17 |
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| morgan | if no one writes unit tests, i'll plan to do it tomorrow. | 18:18 |
| morgan | or tonight | 18:18 |
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| stevemar | i think morgan is busy too | 18:18 |
| morgan | i just can't commit to doing it until then | 18:18 |
| stevemar | yeah, understandable | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | I can do it | 18:18 |
| stevemar | okie dokie, i think we beat this horse enough | 18:18 |
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| stevemar | #topic cleaning up identity.core | 18:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cleaning up identity.core (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:18 | |
| stevemar | rderose: ^ | 18:18 |
| stevemar | you're up! | 18:18 |
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| rderose | cool | 18:19 |
| rderose | In working on shadow users, one thing that I noticed was that the backends for identity were referencing code in the core. | 18:19 |
| rderose | For example, sql and ldap backends were calling the filter_user() method in the core.py | 18:19 |
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| rderose | To me, this is probablematic for a couple reasons. | 18:19 |
| rderose | Separation of concerns. The core needs to know about the backend interface in order to dynamically load the plugins, but the backends shouldn't know anything about the core or other higher level modules. | 18:19 |
| rderose | The core (manager) is concerned with business logic, while the backends (drivers) are concerned with saving/retrieving data from the backend. | 18:19 |
| bknudson | other programming languages don't try to put a bunch of classes in one file. | 18:20 |
| rderose | The second issue is circular dependency. Backend code could reference code in the core, as well as other higher level modules inside identity, and those methods could call methods in the backend; thus creating a circular dependency. | 18:20 |
| henrynash | redrose: is it just that the manager is being used as a useful place to have shared code | 18:20 |
| rderose | My recommendation is to move the interface code out of core.py and into a separate module under backend, e.g. | 18:20 |
| ayoung | that is a Newton thing | 18:20 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: ++ | 18:20 |
| ayoung | right? | 18:20 |
| rderose | yeah | 18:20 |
| shaleh | bknudson: if by "other" you mean Java. Sure :-) but most allow it. | 18:20 |
| rderose | - backend/interface.py or backend/base.py | 18:21 |
| ayoung | so...core is supposed to be an interface. | 18:21 |
| rderose | That way both the core and backends only depend on the abstraction. The design would be more maintainable, less tightly coupled. | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | the circular deps are an artefact that we put the interface into the core file | 18:21 |
| morgan | redrobot: so manage should be the only one that should ever call -> driver (core) | 18:21 |
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| rderose | henrynash: it creates a dependency from the backend to the core | 18:21 |
| morgan | not redrobot, rderose | 18:21 |
| ayoung | a driver should be able to call another driver, and cycles should not be an issue. We could split the driver interface out of core | 18:22 |
| henrynash | redrose: sure, understand the issue | 18:22 |
| shaleh | seems reasonable. What is the negative? | 18:22 |
| morgan | ayoung: no. a driver should never call another driver | 18:22 |
| rderose | ayoung ++ | 18:22 |
| morgan | ayoung: ever | 18:22 |
| stevemar | i always found it a bit weird that the manager and the interface were in the same spot | 18:22 |
| morgan | ayoung: a drive should be allowed to call a manager method | 18:22 |
| rderose | morgain: agreed | 18:22 |
| bknudson | how can a driver call another driver? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | morgan, so we have places where, when we delete a user, we clean up role assignments. | 18:23 |
| ayoung | That suff should be in maanger | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | not sure why we still have vestiges | 18:23 |
| morgan | ayoung: manager -> manager is typically where we have had it | 18:23 |
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| rderose | morgan: but a driver shouldn't call a manager method (circular dependency) | 18:23 |
| knikolla | why would a driver need to call another driver? | 18:23 |
| henrynash | redrtose: if you agree that a driver can call a manager method….isn’t that creating the dependency you are concerned about? | 18:23 |
| morgan | we've done a lot of cleanup on that front | 18:23 |
| amakarov | morgan, ++ What if we want one backend be SQL and the other - KVS? | 18:23 |
| rderose | henrynash: didn't agree with that part | 18:23 |
| henrynash | redrose: ok, thought not! | 18:23 |
| morgan | actually... where are we having a driver -> manager call? | 18:23 |
| rderose | amakarov: both sql and kvs will depend on the abstraction; not the core | 18:24 |
| morgan | because iirc i did a ton of work to make sure all cross-manager calls were in the manager layer | 18:24 |
| amakarov | morgan, I've thied to find an example of it myself without success | 18:24 |
| ayoung | rderose, I'll give you a codre review on that one...lets leave it at that | 18:24 |
| samueldmq | drivers should not be able to call managers | 18:24 |
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| samueldmq | they don't perform business logic | 18:24 |
| rderose | sql and ldap both call filter_user() in the core | 18:24 |
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| morgan | samueldmq: yeah sorry, you are right | 18:24 |
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| morgan | rderose: that should be moved then | 18:24 |
| bknudson | the backends shouldn't have been calling filter_user anyways | 18:24 |
| morgan | filter_user shouldn't be on the manager | 18:24 |
| bknudson | it should be the manager that handles filtering user | 18:24 |
| morgan | if the driver needs to call it | 18:24 |
| ayoung | I don't want identity/backends/common | 18:24 |
| rderose | ayoung: why not, it's only common to the backend | 18:25 |
| morgan | if it is business logic, it should be in the manager layer | 18:25 |
| bknudson | the drivers don't have a way to call the manager | 18:25 |
| morgan | bknudson: ++ | 18:25 |
| ayoung | rderose, there should be nothing common to the drivers | 18:25 |
| stevemar | yeah, not big on the common file | 18:25 |
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| ayoung | all the common code should be in manager | 18:25 |
| ayoung | if there is common code between LDAP and SQL we are doing it wrong | 18:25 |
| bknudson | you'd have to pass the manager into the driver in order to be able to call methods on it | 18:25 |
| morgan | ayoung: or they are functions that exist elsewhere | 18:26 |
| henrynash | bknudson: ++ | 18:26 |
| morgan | ayoung: because they are truely more generic. | 18:26 |
| rderose | ayoung: drivers shouldn't call manager methods. we don't need a dependency between driver and manager | 18:26 |
| morgan | rderose: right, so make the manager do the filter | 18:26 |
| ayoung | OK, this one is on my radar. rderose we can work through this. Want to move on? | 18:26 |
| rderose | driver only needs to depend on the abstraction | 18:26 |
| morgan | rderose: i think is the simple solution | 18:26 |
| morgan | or, .filter_user is a base method on the driver parent class | 18:26 |
| morgan | and the drivers are allowed to call self.filter_user | 18:27 |
| ayoung | this is too big for a meeting. | 18:27 |
| knikolla | morgan, that would be my suggestion. filter_user should be a base method | 18:27 |
| morgan | rderose: you are 100% right, drivers don't call managers | 18:27 |
| morgan | managers call drivers | 18:27 |
| rderose | morgan: okay, but still would like to remove the backends interface out of core | 18:27 |
| stevemar | rderose: you feel like you've god enough to move forward? | 18:27 |
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| stevemar | got* | 18:27 |
| rderose | stevemar: yeah | 18:27 |
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| stevemar | rderose: cool :) | 18:28 |
| morgan | rderose: shuffling location of driver interface is 100% fine (just leave a stub with deprecation warning for a cycle) | 18:28 |
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| rderose | have a patch out there, please send me your feedback | 18:28 |
| rderose | thanks | 18:28 |
| stevemar | anyone interested, please comment on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/296140 | 18:28 |
| bknudson | moving the backends interface out of core makes sense just to clean up the dependencies. | 18:28 |
| rderose | bknudson: sounds good | 18:28 |
| stevemar | next topic | 18:28 |
| morgan | rderose: suggest: <subsystem>.base or .driver_base | 18:28 |
| stevemar | #topic summit topics | 18:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit topics (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:28 | |
| ayoung | rderose, don't go crazy on this | 18:28 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, can you publish your POC for Policy from last summer? | 18:29 |
| rderose | ayoung: okay :) | 18:29 |
| stevemar | i see i forgot to add the link | 18:29 |
| stevemar | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-newton-summit-brainstorm | 18:29 |
| ayoung | Ididn't see it in a review | 18:29 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: well, I am not sure I still have things | 18:29 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, yes you do... | 18:29 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: most patches are abandoned, but I can try to retrieve | 18:29 |
| breton | i have an alternative suggestion for dynamic policy | 18:29 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: what do you want specifically ? the code ? | 18:29 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, I didn't see the abandoned ones | 18:29 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, yes | 18:29 |
| breton | lets use Apache Fortress | 18:29 |
| ayoung | the POC for the middleware | 18:29 |
| morgan | breton: worth discussing at the summit for sure | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | breton, yo udon't realize the amount of inertia in Openstack | 18:30 |
| breton | i know that we already had a chat about it, but there was a chat with Fortress author and a company that backs Fortress and they might be willing to implement things required for keystone | 18:30 |
| breton | like group-based authorization (for federated use case) | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | so we kill keystone things other than authn ? and use apache fortress? | 18:30 |
| ayoung | breton, I'm not going to hold my breath | 18:30 |
| ayoung | nope | 18:30 |
| ayoung | Fortress is a completely different topic. | 18:31 |
| breton | i won't be at the summit, but there will be a person whom i will delegate the task of explaining how things work, with a POC | 18:31 |
| jamielennox | the fortress author was in atlanta pushing this, but things have moved significantly since then | 18:31 |
| ayoung | RIght now, we need to figure out how to sync policy files | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | Fortress will just lead to nothing being done. Nothing against the technology | 18:31 |
| ayoung | the problems are on the OS side | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | Its complete mismatch..lets not go that way | 18:32 |
| amakarov | ayoung, why not? | 18:32 |
| ayoung | believe me, if we could build a system around LDAP, I would have done so | 18:32 |
| stevemar | i think we're better off making authorization pluggable, so people could use fortress if they want | 18:32 |
| amakarov | breton, we need a spec :) | 18:32 |
| stevemar | but we don't have to enforce it | 18:32 |
| ayoung | stevemar, ok, stop | 18:32 |
| ayoung | we havea very real topic to discuss | 18:33 |
| breton | there is no problem of syncing policy files in fortress ;) | 18:33 |
| ayoung | and it is not Fortress | 18:33 |
| ayoung | or any other rewrite | 18:33 |
| stevemar | don't leave us waiting in suspense? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | stevemar, look at the etherpad from theagenda | 18:33 |
| ayoung | we have two approaches we can take right now | 18:33 |
| ayoung | 1 use Puppet etc to manage policy | 18:33 |
| ayoung | 2 distribute via Keystone | 18:33 |
| ayoung | I kinda like 2, | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | and we did already approve the spec | 18:34 |
| breton | there is also #3 | 18:34 |
| * breton ducks | 18:34 | |
| jamielennox | I kinda like 1 | 18:34 |
| morgan | ayoung: i am in the CMS manages policy files camp | 18:34 |
| morgan | jamielennox: ++ | 18:34 |
| ayoung | so...I can go with either... | 18:35 |
| ayoung | both have pros and cons which I tried to lay out | 18:35 |
| jamielennox | and i know i got overriden on this previously, but the old dynamic policy spec assumed there would be a lot of continuous updates which doesn't seem to be the case anymore | 18:35 |
| ayoung | so, if we go puppet, here is the deal | 18:35 |
| morgan | jamielennox: ++ | 18:35 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: if 1, what do we do ? make our policy API usable and advise people to use it , | 18:35 |
| samueldmq | ? | 18:35 |
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| jamielennox | so if you're updating something infrequently i'd rather not have hundreds of api nodes polling into keystone | 18:35 |
| ayoung | if we make a change to a policy file, we have a little bit of a sync workflow to clear up | 18:35 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, that is one choice, yes | 18:35 |
| shaleh | samueldmq: +++++ | 18:35 |
| samueldmq | :) | 18:36 |
| ayoung | the reason to stick with the policy API even if we update via Puppet is for queryability | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | people have the tooling for this and update this file and bounce the appropriate service is really easy | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | bonus points if you improve oslo policy to reload the file if it notices the change | 18:36 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, that was my feeling, which is why I backed off dynamic | 18:36 |
| morgan | jamielennox: yep. | 18:36 |
| shaleh | ayoung: true. It would be nice to know what a user/role/etc could do currently | 18:36 |
| stevemar | jamielennox: it already does | 18:36 |
| ayoung | so, what would the workflow look like | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | stevemar: awesome | 18:36 |
| ayoung | right now, do we expect peole to have an external policy repo? | 18:36 |
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| morgan | jamielennox: oslo.policy doing a mtime check and reload isn't bad. | 18:36 |
| ayoung | somewhere that Puppet syncs out of? | 18:36 |
| * ayoung using puppet as shorthand. means all the deployment tools | 18:37 | |
| morgan | ayoung: i think most people template in the CMS | 18:37 |
| jamielennox | morgan: was think inotify/fnotify/whatever the currently thing is | 18:37 |
| morgan | jamielennox: same thing | 18:37 |
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| morgan | jamielennox: implementation detail | 18:37 |
| shaleh | ayoung: where it comes from is irrelevant. Being able to ask what the current policy allows would be nice. | 18:37 |
| ayoung | morgan, right now, in RDO I have a blank slate. They only use the RPM based policy defaults. | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | shaleh, it is not irrelevant. It is part of the workflow | 18:37 |
| ayoung | shaleh, because we have a repo | 18:37 |
| ayoung | and pulling policy out of the Keystone policy API is a viable approach, but does it work with Puppet? | 18:38 |
| morgan | ayoung: ok i think what shaleh is saying is it doesn't matter what is picked "central repo, templated, etc" | 18:38 |
| morgan | ayoung: the workflow could be anything at this point | 18:38 |
| samueldmq | why not just write out a tool that runs on the policy files and is able to list user capabilities | 18:38 |
| samueldmq | etc | 18:38 |
| samueldmq | ? | 18:38 |
| henrynash | I think the issue is that while we can write some tools that valide policy, if we are not in control of distribution we can never (easlily) preovide tools that set poliy to some customer requirement | 18:38 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, did that already | 18:38 |
| shaleh | samueldmq: that is a possibility | 18:38 |
| shaleh | samueldmq: but it is somewhat limiting | 18:38 |
| samueldmq | we didn't even needed to force people to use keystone API with their CMS | 18:38 |
| samueldmq | need* | 18:39 |
| ayoung | so, we have a bit of a mapping problem, too | 18:39 |
| ayoung | the Keystone API maps policy to endpoints | 18:39 |
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| jamielennox | henrynash: by we there you mean keystone and i think thats a distribution problem not a keystone problem | 18:39 |
| ayoung | but a single server might implement multiple endpoints | 18:39 |
| shaleh | henrynash: as long as Keystone is provided a policy file, the service side is happy. Where it comes from does not matter to keystone | 18:39 |
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| ayoung | and we could have a breakage where the policy file is different for endpoints on the same server | 18:39 |
| ayoung | I'd like to find a way to lock this down | 18:39 |
| ayoung | and then ,either puppet pulls from Keystone, or Puppet pushes to the keystone policy api | 18:40 |
| ayoung | I need to give openstack-puppet some guidance here | 18:40 |
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| morgan | ayoung: what does the push to the keystone-api do? [what is the reason for the push] - just outline it | 18:40 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: as jamielennox and shaleh said above, maybe we shuld just not care about htis | 18:40 |
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| shaleh | ayoung: what exactly is your concern here? | 18:40 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: i think that's out of our control | 18:40 |
| crinkle | it's easier for puppet to work with files than REST but it can reasonably do either | 18:40 |
| henrynash | shaleh, jamielennox: when we have 100s of fine granined roles, some common between services, some not, some tied to endpoints, some not……I think deployers will need a set of tools very different than we can provide today | 18:40 |
| ayoung | morgan, for queryability: | 18:40 |
| morgan | crinkle: ++ | 18:40 |
| samueldmq | provide the api, and let the cms decide where to put each thing | 18:40 |
| ayoung | what policy file is endpoiunt xyz using | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | Horizon needs that | 18:41 |
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| morgan | so lets take a step back. | 18:41 |
| shaleh | ayoung: why does Horizon need it? | 18:41 |
| morgan | what if... what if... | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | consul? | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | :-) | 18:41 |
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| morgan | we use the prefix bit like we have support for | 18:41 |
| * shaleh smacks samueldmq | 18:41 | |
| ayoung | shaleh, it modifes the UI based on the capabilities of the user. It uses policy to do that | 18:41 |
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| morgan | and we can recommend folks deploy a single policy file ? | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | morgan, too big a jump | 18:41 |
| ayoung | tried that already | 18:42 |
| ayoung | and It is a good idea | 18:42 |
| shaleh | ayoung: because we fail to provide an api that lets people ask what is ALLOWED not what is in a file | 18:42 |
| morgan | but we already do that today? | 18:42 |
| jamielennox | morgan: yea, not sure how you slurp it together from all the services | 18:42 |
| morgan | with ['compute'] | 18:42 |
| ayoung | morgan, there are conflicts on the internal rules | 18:42 |
| ayoung | "is_admin" for example | 18:42 |
| samueldmq | jamielennox: ++ that's the issue we hit when trying the unified policy thing | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | morgan, it is a distinct possiility, but remember, big tent | 18:42 |
| ayoung | so doing this for nova and glance is do-able | 18:43 |
| bknudson | on a somewhat related note there's a proposal from nova to have the default rules in their code base, and then generate their sample policy.json from the code. | 18:43 |
| morgan | i think this goes back to the services defining thier policy in code (default) and a dingle override. | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, I think that is OK | 18:43 |
| bknudson | similar to how config options are handled | 18:43 |
| morgan | bknudson: yeah that is the nova thing. | 18:43 |
| samueldmq | in some cases we can't even know what a user is able to do by looking at the policy | 18:43 |
| samueldmq | like nova has some scope checks in the code | 18:43 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I actually like that their approach gives a sane "here is where you find the project on the VM object" | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: i can see the advantage to that | 18:43 |
| morgan | samueldmq: scope checks are weird regardless. | 18:43 |
| ayoung | the scope checks are what we want to be able to tweak | 18:43 |
| ayoung | er...role checks | 18:44 |
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| morgan | ayoung: yeah | 18:44 |
| ayoung | the role checks are what we want to be able to tweak | 18:44 |
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| samueldmq | so if we only want to look at the roles | 18:44 |
| samueldmq | it should be very easy to write a tool for that | 18:44 |
| samueldmq | shouldn't it , | 18:44 |
| samueldmq | ? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | so...we are agreed that the general approach is to use Puppet etc, and that we will lay down support for making that clear? | 18:44 |
| morgan | ayoung: i think it's the best option | 18:44 |
| morgan | ayoung: it means we can leverage tools already existing | 18:45 |
| shaleh | people like policy in CMS | 18:45 |
| bknudson | I think the deploy tool is the best way to distribute policy files | 18:45 |
| henrynash | morgan, ayoung: as you know, I really don’t like that we are defining scope checks in code, unless they can be totally overriden by the policy file…..too restrictive | 18:45 |
| stevemar | ayoung: i'm in support of helping the cms tools | 18:45 |
| shaleh | wht changed since last week? | 18:45 |
| morgan | ayoung: and what shaleh said | 18:45 |
| shaleh | etc | 18:45 |
| ayoung | morgan, OK. So, what happens if someone uploads a policy file to Keystone | 18:45 |
| ayoung | should that be definitive, or is that an error? | 18:45 |
| morgan | ayoung: i'd deprecate the API | 18:45 |
| ayoung | should the CMS pull from Keystone? | 18:45 |
| stevemar | ayoung: same thing that happens today? not much | 18:45 |
| ayoung | morgan, we can't | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | morgan, we needthe queryability still | 18:45 |
| morgan | ayoung: we can. | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | why not a tool ? :( | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | morgan, no, remember, we don't control all the tools | 18:46 |
| shaleh | keystone could easily server /etc/keystone/policy.json | 18:46 |
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| morgan | ayoung: what neess to query policy | 18:46 |
| morgan | ayoung: lets define that | 18:46 |
| morgan | clearly | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | vs API, maybe a tool is better for a CMS than an API is | 18:46 |
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| shaleh | get /v3/policy | 18:46 |
| shaleh | done | 18:46 |
| morgan | shaleh: hold up | 18:46 |
| ayoung | morgan, anythign that needs to know a-priori what a user can do. Any user interface | 18:46 |
| morgan | what things need to inspect/query policy directly | 18:46 |
| ayoung | morgan, as I said, Horizon does. Right now it holds it in place. | 18:47 |
| morgan | ok lets start from horizon | 18:47 |
| ayoung | Now, we could have Puppet sync to there as well | 18:47 |
| bknudson | you could ask keystone what the policy is, but another instance of keystone might give a different answer anyways. | 18:47 |
| shaleh | ayoung: we need to try and resolve Horizon's need | 18:47 |
| henrynash | morgan: how about auditing if the a given security policy has been implemented | 18:47 |
| morgan | i think if oslo.policy can provide the queribility | 18:47 |
| ayoung | its just not a very friendly way , as it makes Horizon special | 18:47 |
| bknudson | the cms can push the policy to horizon too | 18:47 |
| shaleh | ayoung: Horizon parsing our JSON is nuts | 18:47 |
| ayoung | shaleh, no it is not. Please. | 18:47 |
| morgan | it would be easy to say CMS pushes to the interface location | 18:47 |
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| morgan | ayoung: i was trying to make sure i understood it was horizon/ui not osc and cli tools | 18:48 |
| morgan | ayoung: which is why i asked what needed to query | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | shaleh: horizon should be using oslo_policy, oslo_policy can provide this | 18:48 |
| ayoung | morgan, I'm also thinking 3rd party integration, and compliance | 18:48 |
| shaleh | jamielennox: agreed | 18:48 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, and it does | 18:48 |
| morgan | if it's "server" applications, we *can* expose something via oslo_policy from disk | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | ok, so not nuts | 18:48 |
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| morgan | or whatever backend | 18:49 |
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| morgan | i just am making sure we have a clear scope | 18:49 |
| morgan | thats all | 18:49 |
| shaleh | jamielennox: I still say Horizon parsing it is a hack. What they really want to know is "what can user X do". | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | ok...so is the best practice: external file repo, puppet updates, puppet uploads to Keystone? | 18:49 |
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| shaleh | they have to infer it from our policy which means we always break Horizon | 18:49 |
| morgan | shaleh: you have a bigger issue too | 18:49 |
| shaleh | there should be a better way. | 18:49 |
| jamielennox | shaleh: everyone has to infer that from policy | 18:49 |
| morgan | shaleh: some endpoints are different than others | 18:49 |
| morgan | shaleh: and could be considered "compute" =/ | 18:50 |
| shaleh | morgan: understood | 18:50 |
| ayoung | Understand, if Keystone is not the ssystem of record, we have very little control over policy in the future. We cannot autogenerate, merge, manage, etc | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | the implie_roles will not be expanded in the policy files, for example | 18:50 |
| ayoung | we can't make common rules for multiple servers to consume | 18:50 |
| ayoung | I mean, we can, just with offline tools | 18:50 |
| ayoung | and maybe that is the desired approach | 18:50 |
| morgan | ayoung: i know the answer,but is keystone the right place for that? (the policy query)? | 18:51 |
| bknudson | we don't have any say in what puppet does? | 18:51 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I think we have a little | 18:51 |
| ayoung | bknudson, puppet-keystone listens to us | 18:51 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I concur….are we really saying that keystone should not be the system of record for policy? Taht shuuld be teh conceptual question | 18:51 |
| ayoung | if we workwith them | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, what is you opinion? | 18:52 |
| bknudson | puppet might not be too happy to push something that's not a part of gate testing | 18:52 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I think keystone should be the system of record for policy | 18:52 |
| ayoung | henrynash, me too | 18:52 |
| morgan | henrynash: i think making keystone the system of record is going to be as much (if not more work) | 18:52 |
| bknudson | it didn't sound like nova wanted to give up control of their policy files | 18:53 |
| morgan | and will continue to lag in adoption even if we do everything right. look at introducing new things in keystone and how hard it is to garner the adoption | 18:53 |
| shaleh | bknudson: agreed | 18:53 |
| morgan | and other projects do not wa... what bknudson said | 18:53 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I'vetalked it over with them. THere wre two distinct issues | 18:53 |
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| morgan | I think the best solutuon is to double down on the CMS tools - it's where people (and projects) seem to like policy files. | 18:53 |
| ayoung | one is that the binding of project to resource is a a Nova decision | 18:53 |
| henrynash | morgan: that maybe true….supporting old driver version is a SHED load of work, but we diecided to do it since it was the right thing to do (I hope)….we should answer this as to teh correct conceptual answer…and if it’s loat sof work, then we need to plan it over many releases | 18:53 |
| ayoung | Ideally, that would be done by code, as policy.json does not buy anything | 18:54 |
| morgan | henrynash: the issue is i think adoption would just stall permanently | 18:54 |
| ayoung | the other, though, is what is the intention of the PAI. | 18:54 |
| ayoung | Is it meant to be used by end users or not | 18:54 |
| ayoung | so, while they should give good defaults, that is what the deployers should be able to customize | 18:55 |
| stevemar | henrynash: i'm with morgan and bknudson on this one, adoption is so slow right now, we're better off helping the CMS tools in the short run | 18:55 |
| henrynash | morgan: maybe hard, yes, but if the conceptual answer is correct, (and we see the road blocks coming down the road), then it will only be a matter of time | 18:55 |
| bknudson | deployers do customize their policies | 18:55 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I have people writing custom poliucy at customer sites. They need "read only" roles | 18:55 |
| shaleh | ayoung: ++ | 18:55 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: we have that spec | 18:55 |
| jamielennox | which i haven't updated | 18:55 |
| morgan | henrynash: i disagree. i don't think it will ever be a good adoption rate internal to openstack. | 18:55 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: which is... what jamielennox just said ^ | 18:55 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, and how are we going to distribute it. Especially if Nova hardcodes the role? They can't | 18:56 |
| bknudson | we haven't seen a lot of pushback on the cross-project policy spec. so maybe things can move in a better direction | 18:56 |
| morgan | henrynash: unless we address the clear distribution story first. which CMS tools are already there. | 18:56 |
| jamielennox | nova's not hardcoding the rules, AIUI they want to generate the policy file in a similar way they generate a config file | 18:56 |
| jamielennox | rather than maintain it manually | 18:56 |
| ayoung | morgan, so I'm fine with CMS as the distro mechanism, but that is not a complete solution | 18:56 |
| stevemar | jamielennox: theres some hardcoding going on in projects | 18:57 |
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| jamielennox | which i think is fine because it means it doesn't matter so much if your CMS policy gets out of sync a little because at least there is a real default | 18:57 |
| morgan | i think the best option is improve it, make it so distribution is clear, we have the tools to show how policy works, and supply the interface for horizon [which will still be semi-icky, btu eh it'll be better] | 18:57 |
| jamielennox | stevemar: right - but that's just wrong | 18:57 |
| morgan | once we're there, moving to a more direct api driven system or not would be easier. | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | jamielennox, that is my understanding, too. So In my view, the nova policy file would be the starting point for custom policy in a deployment. | 18:57 |
| henrynash | morgan: if we just provide anothe CMS - I agree, few will use it, we have to show some of the advantages of keystone being the CMS…. | 18:57 |
| morgan | henrynash: as it stands i don't think there is one | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | ok..so I'll pursue Keystone<->puppet sync | 18:58 |
| crinkle | ++ | 18:58 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: you and crinkle can swap reviews | 18:58 |
| shaleh | ayoung: why is it bi-directional? | 18:58 |
| ayoung | I suspect that the right approach is to validate policy offline, long before you touch puppet or Keystone anyway | 18:58 |
| henrynash | ayoung: is there a speci of that? I’m not quite sure what that means? | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, there is an etherpad right now | 18:58 |
| morgan | ayoung: i also want to push on the oslo_policy being able to do the lifting for "can you do X" more easily | 18:58 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: ++ i'm in favor or way better tooling | 18:59 |
| bknudson | do you think puppet would accept handling policy files themselves so they can have a read-only role? | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tripleo-policy-updates | 18:59 |
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| stevemar | 1 minute left | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | so my concern with puppet managing this sort of thing is that policy files get out of date in the CMS | 18:59 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, right | 18:59 |
| ayoung | there is always that risk | 18:59 |
| ayoung | anyway...I have the general answer I was looking for. | 19:00 |
| jamielennox | so maybe the fastest solve for that is a .d dir or some way to layer these files that offsets that | 19:00 |
| bknudson | our sample policy.json can get out of sync with the code, too. | 19:00 |
| ayoung | If you have comments or proposals, update the etherpad | 19:00 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| morgan | stupid question.. what if we have generated policy.json (as nova asked) that on commit publishes to a shared repo | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 29 19:00:27 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-29-18.00.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-29-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-29-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:00 |
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| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
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| Zara | \o/ | 19:00 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:00 |
| morgan | fungi: oh noes! | 19:00 |
| stevemar | keystoners, disassemble | 19:00 |
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| abregman | \o | 19:00 |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| jeblair | ~o | 19:01 |
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| fungi | topics proposed this week by igorbelikov, zaro, hashar, anteaya, yolanda, pabelanger, pleia2 | 19:01 |
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| yolanda | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | full agenda, so we may not get to all of them but we'll see how far we manage | 19:01 |
| hashar | o/ | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
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| anteaya | here | 19:02 |
| clarkb | ohai sort of semi here | 19:02 |
| igorbelikov | o/ | 19:02 |
| Clint | o/ | 19:02 |
| zaro | 2o/ | 19:02 |
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| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 29 19:03:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
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| sbelous_ | hi there | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| fungi | #info Reminder: add summit agenda ideas to the Etherpad | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-newton-summit-planning Newton Summit Planning | 19:03 |
| fungi | let's plan to try to do a little voting on them at next week's meeting | 19:04 |
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| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | #info happy second term PTL-ness to fungi :) | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| fungi | heh, thanks (i think?)! | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-22-19.02.html | 19:04 |
| fungi | none last week | 19:04 |
| pabelanger | fungi: congrats! | 19:04 |
| bkero | o/ | 19:05 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| fungi | #info APPROVED: "Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers" | 19:05 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-zookeeper-workers.html Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers | 19:05 |
| fungi | #info APPROVED: "Stackviz Deployment" | 19:05 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/deploy-stackviz.html Stackviz Deployment | 19:05 |
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| fungi | those url's _should_ be valid soon ;) | 19:05 |
| hashar | I have missed looking at Zookeeper / Nodepool. Would Zookeeper be optional ? | 19:05 |
| jesusaur | o/ | 19:05 |
| fungi | i approved, but jobs still need to run | 19:05 |
| hashar | as a third party user of Nodepool I have only a single image to build/update. Just wondering really | 19:06 |
| jeblair | hashar: i believe it would be required, however, it scales down very well, and i anticipate simply running it on the nodepool host will be fine | 19:06 |
| jeblair | hashar: (and will be what we do for quite some time) | 19:06 |
| fungi | hashar: the spec proposal (mentioned last week) is at https://review.openstack.org/278777 while we wait for the jobs to finish running/publishing | 19:06 |
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| fungi | if you want to read further | 19:07 |
| hashar | fungi: thanks | 19:07 |
| hashar | jeblair: yeah I guess I will survive and we have some Zookeeper instances already iirc | 19:07 |
| hashar | jeblair: thx ;) | 19:07 |
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| fungi | also, there's still time to get involved! specs are not written in stone (more like silly putty really) | 19:07 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud | 19:08 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| fungi | added briefly to highlight cody-somerville's awesome weekly status reporting | 19:08 |
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| zigo | o/ | 19:08 |
| zigo | (sorry to be late) | 19:08 |
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| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-March/004090.html latest infra-cloud status | 19:09 |
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| fungi | note that the hardware from former "west" has arrived in houston now | 19:09 |
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| anteaya | that is good news | 19:09 |
| fungi | so maybe we'll have access back for our desired priority hardware shortly and can pick up where we left off at the sprint! | 19:09 |
| fungi | #topic Baremetal instances in Nodepool with Ironic (igorbelikov) | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Baremetal instances in Nodepool with Ironic (igorbelikov) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
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| igorbelikov | hey folks | 19:10 |
| igorbelikov | this idea was brought up in chat by kozhukalov last week | 19:10 |
| fungi | i know this has been brought up many times in the past few years, so i'll let people reiterate the usual concerns | 19:10 |
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| clarkb | I wrotr an email about it | 19:11 |
| igorbelikov | we really want to integrate our fuel deployment tests with infra, the issue is - we use baremetal nodes to launch a bunch of VMs and deploy openstack | 19:11 |
| igorbelikov | there are a bunch of limitations we can't overcome yet to span the VMs across multiple baremetalal nodes | 19:11 |
| igorbelikov | and a lot more issues come to mind if we imagine doing it on top of a bunch VMs requested from Nodepool | 19:11 |
| igorbelikov | so we discussed this internally and while we still will continue to move forward to overcome this limitations | 19:11 |
| igorbelikov | the most realistically looking way is to use Ironic and its baremetal driver in Nova, so Nodepool will be able to request baremetal nodes without any serious changes to Nodepool logic and current infra workflow | 19:11 |
| clarkb | hard to dig up on phone but that should cover thr details | 19:11 |
| igorbelikov | and I wanted to get some input from infra on this general idea | 19:12 |
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| angdraug | clarkb: do you remember date or subject key words? | 19:12 |
| fungi | igorbelikov: how do we upload images to that? | 19:12 |
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| fungi | just curious if your plans include glance | 19:12 |
| igorbelikov | baremetal nodes will be able to use dib-images | 19:12 |
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| igorbelikov | fungi: so basically the current workflow for nodepool vms, but with baremetal | 19:12 |
| fungi | also running untrusted code on your servers has the opportunity to taint them if anyone proposes a patch which, say, uploads malicious firmware | 19:13 |
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| igorbelikov | fungi: fuel deployment tests will work just fine with restricted access from jenkins user. It doesn’t completely solve all security issues, but this can be discussed further | 19:14 |
| clarkb | angdraug: was on infra list and adrian otto was on the thread | 19:14 |
| fungi | i think that thread was having to do with bare metal testing for magnum or something? | 19:14 |
| clarkb | yup | 19:15 |
| fungi | anyway, yes it's a suggestion which has come up multiple times, as i've said, from multiple parties | 19:15 |
| clarkb | but should cover general ironic + nodepool | 19:15 |
| clarkb | and so far no one has given us a workable endpoint or attempted to | 19:15 |
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| igorbelikov | clarkb: thanks, I’ll dig up the thread, sadly I missed it | 19:15 |
| angdraug | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2015-September/003138.html | 19:16 |
| yolanda | from my perspective, once we have infra cloud up and running, there can be opportunity to start moving it | 19:16 |
| fungi | i can see how it would be possible to implement, but more generally the usual needs for multiple separate environments, making sure the clouds providing those resources are staffed and maintained to keep them running, et cetera are typical concerns we have over any special regions in nodepool as well | 19:16 |
| yolanda | deploy nova + ironic, use dib images, and figure how to deal with security problems | 19:16 |
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| fungi | the current goal with infra-cloud is to provide virtual machines, not baremetal test nodes, but it's possible that could act as an additional available region for those tests if we decided that was something we should implement | 19:17 |
| fungi | "figure out how to deal with security problems" seems like a lot of handwaving to me | 19:17 |
| igorbelikov | we’re ready to work on required infra-cloud change for that to happen | 19:17 |
| yolanda | a spec should be needed of course | 19:17 |
| fungi | it's a hard problem, and i know the tripleo and ironic crowd have struggled with it for a few years already, so looping them in early in such a conversation would be wise | 19:18 |
| yolanda | and i see that as next steps once we have a stable infra cloud | 19:18 |
| igorbelikov | yolanda: a spec is a must for this, sure:) | 19:18 |
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| pabelanger | I can understand the need for igorbelikov wanting bare metal nodes upstream, but I would be curious to see what else is needed to migrate more of ci.fuel-infra.org upstream personally. | 19:18 |
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| angdraug | pabelanger: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-November/079284.html | 19:19 |
| fungi | anyway, i guess my point is that "modify nodepool to support ironic" is the simplest part of this. having good answers for the _hard_ parts first is what we'll need to be able to decide if we should do it | 19:19 |
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| yolanda | fungi, from our experience downstream using baremetal, we focused on two things: code review is very important, to ensure that no code is malicious. And also, periodical redeploys of baremetal servers, to ensure they are clean | 19:19 |
| igorbelikov | pabelanger: the only things non-migrateble right now are deployment tests, we’re working on moving everything else upstream | 19:19 |
| yolanda | nodepool supporting ironic should be a matter of using the right flavors. The complicated part should be the nova + ironic integration... | 19:20 |
| fungi | yolanda: reviewing code before jobs run is also a significant departure from our current workflow/tooling so that's not a solution to be taken lightly | 19:20 |
| igorbelikov | yolanda: periodical redeploys fit perfectly in the picture | 19:20 |
| * crinkle would like to see infra-cloud turned back on and providing reliable nodepool resources before thinking about new uses for the hardware | 19:20 | |
| pabelanger | angdraug: igorbelikov: thanks, will read up on it after meeting | 19:20 |
| pabelanger | crinkle: ++ | 19:20 |
| fungi | i am in complete agreement there/ let's table any discussion of what else infra-cloud could be useful for until we're using it for what we first wanted | 19:21 |
| fungi | thanks for the reality check, crinkle | 19:21 |
| crinkle | :) | 19:21 |
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| yolanda | yep, that should be a next step once we have the hardware on place and redeploy again. But I think that we have this possibility for the mid-term | 19:22 |
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| angdraug | btw there's a sizeable pool of hw behind ci.f-i.org, just saying ) | 19:22 |
| fungi | okay, so it seems like this is a topic which would be better moved to a ml thread, we can loop in people with experience in the problem areas and determine if there's a good solution that fits our tools and workflow, and make sure concerns brought up in previous iterations of the same discussion are addressed to our satisfaction | 19:22 |
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| fungi | angdraug: one sizable pool is insufficient. if it goes offline then any jobs which can only run there won't run, and projects depending on those jobs will be blocked | 19:23 |
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| angdraug | fungi: do you think it's too early to start a spec? | 19:23 |
| fungi | we've seen this many times already with tripleo and are strongly considering switching them to third-party ci | 19:23 |
| anteaya | fungi: I recall you made the same point in the nfv ci thread on the -dev mailing list | 19:24 |
| fungi | because trying to showhorn their special cloud in which only runs their tests and has no redundancy turns out not to be a great fit for our systems | 19:24 |
| angdraug | good point, one more concern to address on ML/in spec | 19:24 |
| fungi | er, shoehorn | 19:24 |
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| angdraug | that's exactly what we want to avoid | 19:24 |
| angdraug | right now we're using that hw in our own special way | 19:24 |
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| angdraug | we want this to become a generic pool of hw for any openstack ci jobs | 19:24 |
| fungi | so, yes you can start with a spec but i think it may be easier to have an ml thread to work out bigger questions before you bother settling on a set of solutions to propose in a spec | 19:24 |
| igorbelikov | there are actually 2 pools in different geographical locations, but it’s still a good point | 19:24 |
| AJaeger | so, team up with tripleo and have two pools to share ;) | 19:25 |
| angdraug | AJaeger: +1 :) | 19:25 |
| fungi | well, tripleo's environment would need a complete redesign from scratch to be generally usable anyway | 19:25 |
| angdraug | so does ours | 19:25 |
| fungi | their model with brokers and precreated networks is very specific to teh design of their jobs | 19:26 |
| AJaeger | ah ;( | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | AJaeger: fungi: I'm hoping to talk with the tripleo team in austin to see what can be done moving forward | 19:26 |
| fungi | okay, meeting's half over, 6 topics to go. need to move on | 19:26 |
| angdraug | sorry, thanks for giving us the time! | 19:26 |
| igorbelikov | ok, moving this to mail thread, thanks! | 19:26 |
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| fungi | thanks angdraug, igorbelikov! | 19:27 |
| fungi | #topic Gerrit tuning (zaro) | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gerrit tuning (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:27 | |
| fungi | zaro: saw you had more details on the ml thread this week! | 19:27 |
| zaro | anybody get a chance to read the link | 19:27 |
| zaro | ?? | 19:27 |
| anteaya | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-March/004077.html | 19:27 |
| zaro | anyways yeah, performance is way better after running git gc | 19:28 |
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| AJaeger | zaro: yes, thanks for testing this! | 19:28 |
| zaro | so was wondering if anybody had further questions about it? | 19:28 |
| anteaya | can we look closer at git push origin HEAD:refs/for/master | 19:28 |
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| anteaya | the stats for user | 19:28 |
| zaro | what do you mean look closer? | 19:28 |
| anteaya | before is 5 seconds the after is 11s | 19:29 |
| jeblair | has anyone looked into server performance with the resulting repositories? | 19:29 |
| AJaeger | zaro: How can we run this? Is there a gerrit setting or is that manual? And while git gc runs, is the repo available for usage? | 19:29 |
| anteaya | for user that looks like it taeks twice as long to me | 19:29 |
| jeblair | (not only gerrit, but cgit/git) | 19:29 |
| fungi | i haven't looked into it. sounds like zaro is the only one who's run comparative stats so far | 19:30 |
| zaro | anteaya: i didn't notice that, but that's very odd result. i 'm not sure why the descrepency there. | 19:30 |
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| fungi | but i agree the server impact (gerrit and cgit) is still a missing piece | 19:30 |
| anteaya | zaro: okay, I question it | 19:30 |
| abregman | zaro: we tried it in our downstream environment and it really made difference for some our projects. so thanks for that. | 19:31 |
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| zaro | AJaeger: i ran it manually with the nova repo provided by jeblair | 19:32 |
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| zaro | AJaeger: i only ran locally on my own machine. | 19:32 |
| anteaya | abregman: if you are able to collect any statistics and share them as a reply to that mailing list post, that would be wonderful | 19:32 |
| fungi | since git gc (or jgit gc for that matter) is by definition a destructive action, it's not something we'll be easily able to recover from if we later discover an adverse impact somewhere, hence the need for thorough testing | 19:32 |
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| hashar | I can't remember if I mentionned it on the list but Gerrit upload-pack ends up sending all refs/changes/* to the client doing a git fetch :( | 19:33 |
| abregman | anteaya: sure, np | 19:33 |
| zaro | AJaeger: i supposed you can do the same | 19:33 |
| anteaya | abregman: thank you | 19:33 |
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| AJaeger | zaro: I meant: Run on gerrit itself | 19:33 |
| anteaya | abregman: include commands run and as much detail as you can | 19:33 |
| abregman | ack :) | 19:33 |
| fungi | #link https://tarballs.openstack.org/ci/nova.git.tar.bz2 a snapshot of the full nova repo from review.openstack.org's filesystem | 19:34 |
| hashar | and somehow the git fetch is way faster over https compared to ssh (on my setup and using Wikimedia Gerrit 2.8 .. ). Long food: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T103990#2144157 | 19:34 |
| fungi | #link https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T103990#2144157 | 19:35 |
| fungi | thanks for the details hashar | 19:35 |
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| hashar | feel free to poke me in your mornings if you want me to elaborate | 19:35 |
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| zaro | AJaeger: most things are cloning from git.o.o not review.o.o so i just tested directly. | 19:36 |
| hashar | at least on my setup using https for fetch solved it. I should try on your nova installation | 19:36 |
| fungi | zaro: so anyway, it sounds like we're a lot closer to seeing performance benefit for this but more comfort about the potential impact to the server side of things is preferred before we decide it's entirely safe | 19:36 |
| zaro | what would provide more comfort? | 19:37 |
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| anteaya | server performance with the resulting repositories is what jeblair has asked for | 19:37 |
| fungi | zaro: indications that performance on git.o.o or review.o.o (on the servers) will improve or at least remain constant after a git gc (and definitely not get worse) | 19:38 |
| fungi | e.g. is it more work for git to serve these after than it was before | 19:38 |
| fungi | anyway, continuation on the ml | 19:39 |
| fungi | okay, need to continue pushing through as many of these topics as we can | 19:39 |
| fungi | #topic Status of gerrit replacement node (anteaya, yolanda) | 19:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status of gerrit replacement node (anteaya, yolanda) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:39 | |
| anteaya | okay so on April 11th we commited to doing a thing: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/088985.html | 19:39 |
| anteaya | and my understanding is that yolanda has a node up | 19:40 |
| yolanda | i just wanted to confirm that nothing is pending for that node replacement | 19:40 |
| anteaya | beyond that I don't know what the plan is | 19:40 |
| yolanda | i created the node, it's on ansible inventory, and it's disabled | 19:40 |
| fungi | this is just a quick check on the existing server replacement schedule, and making sure someone writes up the maintenance plan for it? | 19:40 |
| anteaya | but I think there whould be one | 19:40 |
| anteaya | fungi: yes | 19:40 |
| anteaya | I'm away next week | 19:40 |
| anteaya | just want to hear someone is driving this | 19:40 |
| anteaya | can be but doesnt' have to be yolanda | 19:40 |
| clarkb | basic process is stop review.o.o, copy git repos, index(es), start on new server | 19:40 |
| fungi | we likely also need a one-week warning e-mail followup to the previous announcement | 19:41 |
| yolanda | do we have pre-existing maintenance plans for gerrit? | 19:41 |
| fungi | clarkb: git repos are in cinder now, i believe | 19:41 |
| clarkb | oh right | 19:41 |
| clarkb | so thats potentially even easier, unmount, unattach, attach, mount, win | 19:41 |
| yolanda | and db is on trove, so that should be fast | 19:41 |
| abregman | zaro: did you run git gc --aggressively? | 19:41 |
| fungi | so detach volume from old server, attach to new server, update dns with a short ttl if it hasn't already and then swap dns records right at the start of the outage | 19:41 |
| yolanda | i can write an etherpad for it | 19:42 |
| zaro | abregman: no. | 19:42 |
| yolanda | if we don't have any | 19:42 |
| fungi | thanks yolanda! | 19:42 |
| anteaya | abregman: we've changed topics, we can continue discussion in the -infra channel | 19:42 |
| fungi | #action yolanda draft a maintenance plan for the gerrit server replacement | 19:42 |
| anteaya | thank you | 19:42 |
| fungi | did you also want to send the followup announcement around the one-week mark? | 19:42 |
| abregman | anteaya: oh k, sorry | 19:42 |
| yolanda | i will also send a remainder on 4th april | 19:43 |
| anteaya | abregman: no worreis | 19:43 |
| fungi | #action yolanda send maintenance reminder announcement to the mailing list on April 4 | 19:43 |
| fungi | thanks yolanda! | 19:43 |
| anteaya | thanks yolanda | 19:43 |
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| yolanda | glad to help :) | 19:43 |
| fungi | #topic Ubuntu Xenial DIBs (pabelanger) | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ubuntu Xenial DIBs (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:43 | |
| pabelanger | ohai | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | awesome work on these pabelanger :) | 19:43 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:ubuntu-xenial+status:open | 19:43 |
| pabelanger | so ubuntu-xenial dibs are working | 19:43 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: including the puppet runs? | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | even tested with nodepool launching to jenkins | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: yup | 19:44 |
| anteaya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-operating-system-upgrades | 19:44 |
| clarkb | nice | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | so, that link above has 1 review that needs merged | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | and we can then turn them on in nodepool | 19:44 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: have you run a devstack-gate reproduce.sh script against one of the images yet? | 19:44 |
| fungi | oh, i see i skipped a topic a couple back, i'll thread that one in next (sorry zaro, hashar!) | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | surprisingly is was straightforward | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: not yet. | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: I can do that later today | 19:44 |
| hashar | fungi: or we can skip git-review and follow up on list | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | either way, out puppet manifests and dib elements works well | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | xenial isn't released until april 21st (beta 2 was last thursday), but I don't anticipate any ground-breaking changes between then and now | 19:45 |
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| pleia2 | er, now and then | 19:45 |
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| yolanda | pabelanger, so not much changes needed right? | 19:45 |
| anteaya | good work | 19:45 |
| pabelanger | yolanda: right, see the topic above for all the patches | 19:45 |
| clarkb | pleia2: ya we can just avoid switching any jobs over until releaes has happened | 19:45 |
| clarkb | python35 is the other potential place we will see issues | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | clarkb: yeah | 19:46 |
| anteaya | xenial ships with 35? | 19:46 |
| clarkb | anteaya: yes | 19:46 |
| anteaya | great | 19:46 |
| fungi | i anticipate the py24-py35 transition will be similar to how we did py33-py34 last year | 19:46 |
| fungi | er, s/py24/py34/ | 19:46 |
| clarkb | fungi: well and we may need to decide if we want to do 34 and 35 | 19:46 |
| clarkb | but yes | 19:46 |
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| fungi | right, we had the luxury last time of considering py3k testing a convenience and dropped it from stable branches so we could just cut over to py34 | 19:47 |
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| fungi | though in this case we're not maintaining special platforms just for py34 testing, so there's less incentive to drop it anyway | 19:48 |
| fungi | py33 testing was kinda hacky | 19:48 |
| sdague | pabelanger: do you have this in a project config somewhere that we could run an early devstack job on to shake out bugs? | 19:48 |
| AJaeger | sdague: once all changes by pabelanger merged, see above for review link: Yes | 19:49 |
| fungi | that would be extremely easy to add once we have the patches in to start building images/booting nodes | 19:49 |
| pabelanger | Yup, https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:ubuntu-xenial+status:open are the current patches needed to land | 19:49 |
| pabelanger | fungi: indeed | 19:49 |
| fungi | okay, any other questions we need to address on this topic in the meeting before i move on (or rather, back to the topic i unceremoniously skipped earlier)? | 19:50 |
| pabelanger | none here | 19:50 |
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| fungi | #topic git-review release request (zaro, hashar) | 19:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "git-review release request (zaro, hashar) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:50 | |
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| zigo | FYI, Py35 works perfectly with everything right now. | 19:50 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-March/004058.html git-review release request | 19:50 |
| zigo | (tested at build time in Sid) | 19:50 |
| hashar | so in short git-review last release is from June 12th 2015 | 19:51 |
| zaro | just wondering what needs to happen for a release? | 19:51 |
| zaro | whether i can help with that? | 19:51 |
| hashar | I could myself use the optional feature push url to be release. That lets bypass the creation of an additional remote named "gerrit" | 19:51 |
| hashar | which causes folks to fetch from both origin and gerrit remotes when ever they do git remote update | 19:51 |
| zigo | A tag, then ping me to build the package in Debian, then I'll ping Ubuntu ppl? | 19:51 |
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| hashar | so I guess a tag | 19:51 |
| fungi | i replied on the ml thread as well, but want to see someone get any remaining bug fixes or test improvements dlushed from the review queue before we tag a new release. we should consider git-review feature frozen for the moment, but can figure out what new features make sense to add once we have the current master state polished and released | 19:52 |
| hashar | on the list one hinted at looking for open change that one might want to get approved before tagging a release | 19:52 |
| zigo | Remember: we have a few days for a freeze exception so that it reaches the next LTS. Do we want that new version in 16.04 ? | 19:52 |
| clarkb | I ran into a bug the other day | 19:52 |
| clarkb | git review -d fetched a patch from a different git repo | 19:52 |
| clarkb | I swear it used to fail on that | 19:52 |
| hashar | zigo: yup would be good to have it in before Ubuntu freeze | 19:52 |
| zigo | hashar: *IF* there's no regressions! :) | 19:53 |
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| fungi | clarkb: that would definitely count as a regression, please get up with me later if you need help reproducing | 19:53 |
| jesusaur | clarkb: yes, i still use an old version and it fails on that | 19:53 |
| clarkb | jesusaur: what version? | 19:53 |
| clarkb | will help us bisect | 19:53 |
| zigo | hashar: Also, Ubuntu Xenia *IS* frozen, we just happen to have FFE for all OpenStack things until Mitaka is out. | 19:53 |
| jesusaur | clarkb: 1.23 | 19:53 |
| zigo | (and I guess git-review could be included in the FFE) | 19:54 |
| fungi | zigo: hashar: well, git-review shouldn't be an openstack-specific thing | 19:54 |
| hashar | zigo: doh! :-) then it will be in the next stable or maybe we can push it via xenix-updates or similar | 19:54 |
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| zigo | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule | 19:54 |
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| fungi | okay, so it sounds like nothing significant to add to this topic aside from what is in the ml thread, so we should follow up there once someone has a chance to run back through the outstanding changes and make suggestions for missing fixes (including the regression clarkb spotted) | 19:55 |
| zigo | hashar: The question is, are there features we *must* have, or is the current version in Xenial just fine? | 19:55 |
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| hashar | fungi: wikimedia community definitely uses git review | 19:55 |
| hashar | zigo: no clue :/ | 19:56 |
| zigo | Let's switch topic then! :P | 19:56 |
| fungi | hashar: yep! i definitely want to look at git-review as something developed by the openstack community for anyone using gerrit, not just for people using _our_ gerrit deployment | 19:56 |
| fungi | #topic Infra cloud (pabelanger) | 19:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Infra cloud (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:56 | |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-March/004045.html | 19:56 |
| pabelanger | This is a simple question, did we confirm we are doing 2 drops per server or 1? | 19:57 |
| hashar | fungi: git-review has received a wild range of contribs from Wikimedia community for sure :-} | 19:57 |
| pabelanger | we talked about it at the mid-cycle, but haven't see it brought up | 19:57 |
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| pabelanger | if not, we should ask HP NOC team about it | 19:57 |
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| fungi | clarkb had mentioned that as a preferred deployment model so that we could skip the nasty bridge-on-bridge action we had in west | 19:57 |
| rcarrillocruz | indeed | 19:58 |
| rcarrillocruz | also | 19:58 |
| rcarrillocruz | we had to do some stuff in glean | 19:58 |
| clarkb | right but I think 10Gbe is probably more valuable than 2 drops | 19:58 |
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| clarkb | and we don't have that right now? | 19:58 |
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| rcarrillocruz | as it was not ready by the time to handle the vlans thingy we were using | 19:58 |
| fungi | roght, glean support for bridge configuration post-dated the west design | 19:58 |
| crinkle | I don't think they are giving us 10G | 19:58 |
| clarkb | crinkle: :( | 19:58 |
| rcarrillocruz | oh | 19:58 |
| rcarrillocruz | (sad trombone) | 19:58 |
| crinkle | and I don't think we impressed hard enough that we wanted 2 drops | 19:58 |
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| clarkb | right because with 10Gbe we would deal | 19:59 |
| clarkb | like we did before | 19:59 |
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| rcarrillocruz | hmm, so now just 1 nic 1GB | 19:59 |
| rcarrillocruz | ? | 19:59 |
| clarkb | but if we are only getting gig the nI think we need to impress onthem that we need it | 19:59 |
| pabelanger | Is it too late to ask? | 19:59 |
| fungi | it looked like the servers from west all had at least two 1gbe interfaces, but some had only one 10gbe while a few seemed to have two | 19:59 |
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| rcarrillocruz | i don't think it will be hard for venu to accommodate two nics | 19:59 |
| pabelanger | for 2 drops | 19:59 |
| rcarrillocruz | i mean | 19:59 |
| rcarrillocruz | i've managed the gozer baremetal | 19:59 |
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| clarkb | fungi: it was 2x10Gbe with only one gbic installed and 2xgig iirc | 19:59 |
| rcarrillocruz | and that' s the setup i had | 20:00 |
| rcarrillocruz | 2 nics | 20:00 |
| fungi | yeah, cat4e patch cables are likely no problem for them at all. copper 10gb sfps/switches on the other hand... | 20:00 |
| anteaya | looks like we are at time | 20:00 |
| rcarrillocruz | and never had any hold up on that | 20:00 |
| crinkle | from venu's confirmation email: "We checked with DC Ops and they said all the nodes have only 1G NICs on them. So nodes to TOR switch are 1G connections." | 20:00 |
| crinkle | i can follow up with them | 20:00 |
| fungi | s/cat4e/cat5e/ | 20:00 |
| clarkb | crinkle: what thats not true | 20:00 |
| fungi | not sure what's with my fingers today | 20:00 |
| fungi | oh, also we're out of time | 20:00 |
| rcarrillocruz | heh | 20:00 |
| clarkb | crinkle: I am almost 100% positive we had 10Gbe nics in every one of the machines | 20:00 |
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| Clint | whee | 20:01 |
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| fungi | pleia2: we'll get to your topic first on the agenda netxt week if that's okay | 20:01 |
| clarkb | it was those silly nics that caused kernel issues constantly | 20:01 |
| fungi | thanks everyone!!! | 20:01 |
| anteaya | thank you | 20:01 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 29 20:01:23 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-29-19.03.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-29-19.03.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-29-19.03.log.html | 20:01 |
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| * ttx yawns, damn DST | 20:01 | |
| fungi | sorry ttx, i owe you one minute ;) | 20:01 |
| ttx | who is around for the TC meeting ? | 20:01 |
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| zigo | Can we continue on #openstack-infra? | 20:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| mriedem | o/ | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:02 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:02 |
| jeblair | o/ (in board meeting spectators gallery) | 20:02 |
| * thingee lost power in florida. now tethering to phone | 20:02 | |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | russellb, mestery, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, flaper87, jaypipes, dhellmann: around ? | 20:02 |
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| sdake_ | o/ | 20:02 |
| russellb | in board meeting | 20:02 |
| jroll | \o | 20:02 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 20:02 |
| mordred | ttx: in board meeting | 20:02 |
| jeblair | russellb is doing a bang-up job presenting the mission statement amendment | 20:02 |
| lifeless | ttx: o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 29 20:03:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:03 |
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| * edleafe lurks in the back | 20:03 | |
| mriedem | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | Hi everyone | 20:03 |
| annegentle | here | 20:03 |
| * cdent sits next to edleafe | 20:03 | |
| ttx | agenda for today: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Appointed PTLs for Newton | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Appointed PTLs for Newton (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| * amrith finds a seat in the last row | 20:03 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/296360 | 20:03 |
| ttx | Last time I looked this was still missing one vote | 20:03 |
| ttx | Looks like I can +A it now | 20:03 |
| ttx | Oh, and you can pile up +1s on the PTL names update @ https://review.openstack.org/298228 | 20:04 |
| ttx | I'll approve that one once it gets the election officials +1 and TC majority | 20:04 |
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| ttx | #topic Remove rolling-upgrade tag from ceilometer | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Remove rolling-upgrade tag from ceilometer (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/292334 | 20:04 |
| ttx | So the original change was removing for swift and ceilometer but swift is pretty close to add the missing test harness | 20:04 |
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| ttx | So the change was updated to only affect ceilometer, which is unlikely to fix the missing tests in the coming week. | 20:05 |
| notmyname | yes, thank you to those who are helping get the framework set up for swift's testing | 20:05 |
| sdague | swift definitely supports the functionality, there was a testing gap, that the team is working actively to close | 20:05 |
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| notmyname | especially sdague | 20:05 |
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| ttx | could use one more vote on the tag removal | 20:06 |
| * Rockyg lurks on the side | 20:06 | |
| jaypipes | hey, I'm here too... | 20:06 |
| * dims peeks | 20:06 | |
| * devananda lurks on the other side | 20:06 | |
| * dims says we have a full peanut gallery! | 20:06 | |
| jeblair | cool, i'm glad this is working out! | 20:06 |
| markmcclain | ttx: looks like we have 7 on the tag removal | 20:07 |
| ttx | alrighty | 20:07 |
| * ttx clicks blue button | 20:07 | |
| ttx | Live news from the board meeting I hear our reporter Monty is on the scene | 20:07 |
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| annegentle | ha | 20:07 |
| mordred | hey all! | 20:08 |
| mordred | jeblair: would you like to comment? | 20:08 |
| * russellb looks at jeblair | 20:08 | |
| jeblair | hey, so the board likes the mission statement | 20:08 |
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| jeblair | there was some commentary on it | 20:08 |
| jeblair | but no objections | 20:08 |
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| jeblair | (the update to the mission statement, to be clear) :) | 20:09 |
| annegentle | oh, good | 20:09 |
| ttx | Alright, we'll pick that up at next meeting | 20:09 |
| jbryce | Unanimous approval in fact | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | nnnnnnnnniiiiiiiiceeee | 20:09 |
| ttx | for the last meeting of the Mitaka membership | 20:09 |
| ttx | #topic Update Kuryr mission statement | 20:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update Kuryr mission statement (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:09 | |
| ttx | moving on | 20:09 |
| anteaya | jbryce: yay! | 20:09 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/289993 | 20:09 |
| ttx | OK, so making that discussion a bit more public on the ML beared(bore?) the expected fruits of drawing attention to it | 20:10 |
| ttx | The fear of dilution of the Kuryr team limited membership was raised | 20:10 |
| ttx | Though I suspect that with additional scope additional members would be interested in joining | 20:10 |
| ttx | (resources are not really finite, they clearly depend on the scope addressed) | 20:10 |
| ttx | The key question here is: is it two different teams or the exact same team working on those two aspects | 20:11 |
| ttx | So I'm still fine with the Kuryr team exploring that space, in close contact with the Magnum team | 20:11 |
| ttx | we can split that team later if needed ? | 20:11 |
| lifeless | Well | 20:12 |
| lifeless | its not really a top down call is it ? | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | TBH, I'd just let them explore for now and then deal with the results | 20:12 |
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| lifeless | the teams going to do what they think best | 20:12 |
| * dtroyer looks for a scorecard to keep up with this afternoon's comments in the review… | 20:12 | |
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| dhellmann | yeah, the main question in my mind is does this alter their mission in a way that adds things "not openstack", and I don't think it does that. | 20:12 |
| sdake | nothing in the governance rpeo is goign to stop either magnum or kuryr from proceeding | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | I don't think the current change is crazy and they've cleared that | 20:13 |
| ttx | lifeless: if those are two differetn teams frankensteined together into a single project team in governance, we can ask that they form two separate teams | 20:13 |
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| ttx | but that is about it, yes | 20:13 |
| lifeless | ttx: sure, but I've no real visibility on that | 20:13 |
| dtroyer | I think the main question isn't the kind of work, it is the organization and who should be doing it | 20:13 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: we can, if issues come up that make it seem like that would be a solution. I don't think we need to start out by worrying about that. | 20:13 |
| ttx | lifeless: right, at this stage this is pretty much an acknowledgment of the turn they want to take | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : presumably the kuryr team wants to do it, if they're changing their mission statement? | 20:14 |
| lifeless | ...moving on :) | 20:14 |
| ttx | Looks like the TC is vastly supporting the mission update, unless a massive number of TC members want to change their vote now | 20:14 |
| * dhellmann hopes to hear someone say "kuryr" at the summit so he knows how to pronounce it | 20:14 | |
| dtroyer | dhellmann: right, the objections indicate disagreement in other teams… | 20:14 |
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| sdake | dhellmann like shipping something via courier :) | 20:15 |
| lifeless | it has 11 +A's | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : right | 20:15 |
| lifeless | erm +RC? whatever we call it | 20:15 |
| ttx | approving now | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | sdake : aha! | 20:15 |
| ttx | done! | 20:15 |
| ttx | #topic Changes to clarify project election requirements | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Changes to clarify project election requirements (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:16 | |
| ttx | So those are changes aiming to clarify the need to participate in the election process, proposed by thingee | 20:16 |
| ttx | especially for recently-added projects | 20:16 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:16 |
| ttx | * Mention in project requirements about ptl election (https://review.openstack.org/295609) | 20:16 |
| ttx | I think this one is a worthwhile clarification | 20:16 |
| ttx | further improvements or precision could be proposed as subsequent patches, I guess | 20:16 |
| sdague | dhellmann's clarifications seem a little crisper | 20:17 |
| ttx | I like dhellmann version, too | 20:17 |
| dtroyer | I like dhellmann's comment, now or later works | 20:17 |
| markmcclain | ++ | 20:17 |
| edleafe | seems like some of the new teams were surprised. This should help. | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | let's update this patch | 20:17 |
| thingee | can do another revision and we can circle back? | 20:17 |
| ttx | thingee: can you update patch ? | 20:17 |
| thingee | yes | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | and vote again, we can do that as we go on with the meeting | 20:17 |
| ttx | * Add leaderless programs amendment for inactivity (https://review.openstack.org/295581) | 20:18 |
| ttx | So I'm less convinced we need this one. It just adds that the TC may decide to demote leaderless project teams | 20:18 |
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| ttx | But we may (and will) demote project teams for other violations of the OpenStack Way, not just for being leaderless or abandoned | 20:18 |
| ttx | So I think this sets wrong expectations, that as long as you're active and participating in elections the TC can't remove you | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | I don't think we want to start enumerating reasons for demoting teams unless they seem exceptional or not covered elsewhere. | 20:18 |
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| lifeless | yeah, I don't see why we need it | 20:19 |
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| dhellmann | If the team doesn't hold an election and ends up leadersless, that's covered by one of our existing 4 opens | 20:19 |
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| ttx | I think the mention in requirements (and the project team guide) are enough. | 20:19 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, I think clarifying over in the PTG will be good | 20:19 |
| ttx | ok, maybe pile up a few -1s and I'll abandon it | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | we may also want to remind new teams to review that when we approve them, and ask questions if they have them | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | I actually didn't see too much of an issue with this one | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | I mean | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | It mentions that leaderless project teams may be removed | 20:20 |
| thingee | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/295609/5 | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | and the model is based on teams having a leader | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | the project governance model, that is | 20:21 |
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| ttx | flaper87: it's not wrong, it's useless | 20:21 |
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| lifeless | its adding procedure where none is required | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : as soon as we start making a list of reasons, we have to keep extending it to cover every case. | 20:21 |
| lifeless | being clear about what happens to e.g. Nova when noone stands for election is pretty important | 20:21 |
| thingee | dhellmann: makes sense | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | mmh, I'll take your word on that | 20:21 |
| dtroyer | It also updated program to project in the older doc…should we be looking at those to see if they need more than s/program/project/ updates? | 20:21 |
| dtroyer | ie, if/where meaning changes | 20:21 |
| ttx | dtroyer: it's not a doc, it's a resolution | 20:22 |
| ttx | dtroyer: so it's a bit dated | 20:22 |
| thingee | dtroyer: can do another patch to catch those | 20:22 |
| ttx | s/program/project team/ actually | 20:22 |
| anteaya | if folks feel strongly about team/project/progam changes in the resolution I can fix it | 20:22 |
| anteaya | but honestly the meaning is the same | 20:22 |
| anteaya | and we keep changing the wording | 20:22 |
| dtroyer | that's really my question, are there places where the meaning is actually different with the different word? | 20:23 |
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| ttx | please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/295609/5, will approve if it passes the bar | 20:23 |
| dtroyer | I don't want to do replacement just to replace | 20:23 |
| anteaya | dtroyer: I haven't seen any difference in how the resolution is used, no | 20:23 |
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| ttx | dtroyer: not that I can think of | 20:23 |
| dtroyer | kk, thanks anteaya | 20:23 |
| anteaya | welcome | 20:23 |
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| anteaya | I have seen the resolution used successfuly for how it was intended | 20:23 |
| ttx | #topic Stale cross-project specs (thingee) | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stale cross-project specs (thingee) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:23 | |
| thingee | o/ | 20:24 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/089115.html | 20:24 |
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| ttx | thingee: floor is yours | 20:24 |
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| thingee | We have some still cross-project specs. I have reached out to some of the owners in their individual reviews | 20:24 |
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| thingee | in the previous cross-project meeting we discussed how we'd like to manage these. some people agreed it was fine for myself to be able to abandon these if there has been enough notice with the owners. I'm also fine with the TC doing this if there is enough reason, but someone needs to :) | 20:25 |
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| thingee | /still/stale/ | 20:25 |
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| ttx | I'm fine with the cross-project group abandoning them. If there is opposition they can escalate to TC | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | this seems like a good time to clear out the backlog if they're truly stale | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | I'm fine with abandoning those! | 20:26 |
| fungi | yeah, if the tc wants to grant some group (e.g. thingee) abandon power on that repo, it's a simple acl addition in gerrit | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | "with the x-prj team" | 20:26 |
| thingee | ttx: I will note jeblair is still waiting for my to make a resolution on the cross-project team having more rights in this repo | 20:26 |
| dtroyer | I don't think the TC needs to be involved here unless there is a dispute | 20:26 |
| * mordred thinks the tc should grant thingee broad-reaching powers | 20:26 | |
| ttx | dtroyer: exactly | 20:26 |
| sdague | dtroyer: well the TC *is* the approval team at this point | 20:27 |
| * dhellmann hands thingee Powers whiskey | 20:27 | |
| sdague | that's how it was set up originally | 20:27 |
| ttx | thingee: how about you fix the ACL and then go on an abandonment rampage ? | 20:27 |
| sdague | so that can be changed, which is cool | 20:27 |
| anteaya | the cross project team doesn't have a ptl, unless the tc would like to create one | 20:27 |
| fungi | the acl comes with big, stompy boots suitable for abandonment rage | 20:27 |
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| jeblair | who is the cross-project group? | 20:28 |
| jeblair | i assume thingee is in it :) | 20:28 |
| ttx | sdague: I would delegate to the cross-project meeting chair | 20:28 |
| mordred | jeblair: you are | 20:28 |
| annegentle | jeblair: tc? | 20:28 |
| jeblair | right | 20:28 |
| thingee | jeblair: I guess it's cross-project spec liaisons to be exact and correcting myself https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons#Cross-Project_Spec_Liaisons | 20:28 |
| ttx | and then handle disputes at TC level if any | 20:28 |
| jeblair | so i'm specifically asking about "I'm fine with the cross-project group abandoning them. If there is opposition they can escalate to TC" :) | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | We can probably take care of the cleanup this time around and set up the ACLs for x-prj specs correctly | 20:28 |
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| thingee | and our project team guide http://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/cross-project.html | 20:28 |
| gordc | it seems strange tc holds approval/abandon powers if they are only handling it at a dispute level | 20:29 |
| * dtroyer hears delegation gears grinding away | 20:29 | |
| ttx | jeblair: the cross-project meeting chair, representing the cross-project spec liaisons ? | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | if we just want someone to do the work, I already have a pair of those big stompy boots fungi mentioned | 20:29 |
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| thingee | ttx: how about I finish my resolution and the TC can review that. | 20:29 |
| ttx | gordc: right we should fix the ACL to match how we proceed nowadays | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | Feels like we all want thingee to take care of that but there's no actual 'title' for him to take that on except he being the chair. | 20:29 |
| jeblair | yeah, it sounds like we have some general support for delegation | 20:29 |
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| lifeless | +1 | 20:29 |
| jeblair | i just want to recognize that i think we're catching up to a new (good) reality here | 20:30 |
| gordc | ttx: cool cool. yeah, it'd make more sense to just give it to CPL and chair since they're the ones reviewing | 20:30 |
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| jeblair | i'd be most comfortable with a tc resolution acknowledging this delegation | 20:30 |
| jeblair | (i'd vote for it) | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : but will you write it? | 20:31 |
| ttx | ok, let's propose a resolution describing the cross-project new ACL, then implement that ACL and let thingee abandon things | 20:31 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: i may not be best positioned too since i'm not as involved as thingee but would be happy to help | 20:31 |
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| dhellmann | :-) | 20:31 |
| ttx | would that work ? | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | formally delegating this seems like a good plan | 20:32 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: i am the person who just asked "who is the cross projcet group?" :) | 20:32 |
| thingee | works for me! | 20:32 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: yeah, that's what I intended to suggest above but I fail to mention "lets put this in a resolution" | 20:32 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: but at least i'm asking the right questions. i think. :) | 20:32 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: I like your questions | 20:32 |
| thingee | jeblair: you also asked a resolution a while back for acl and cp group http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-01-19-20.02.log.html#l-29 | 20:32 |
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| ttx | #info let's propose a resolution describing the cross-project new ACL, then implement that ACL and let thingee abandon things | 20:32 |
| jeblair | i am also consistent :) | 20:32 |
| * thingee had that sitting in a tab since he already started writing this | 20:33 | |
| dtroyer | ++ for consistency | 20:33 |
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| ttx | thingee: anything else on this ? | 20:33 |
| thingee | ttx: nope, thanks everyone | 20:33 |
| jeblair | thingee: thank you! | 20:33 |
| ttx | Thank you, I know by experience herding the cross-project spec cats is no fun | 20:33 |
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| ttx | #topic Tags to describe deployment and packaging deliverables | 20:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tags to describe deployment and packaging deliverables (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:34 | |
| sdake | o/ | 20:34 |
| ttx | So these propose to add type:deployment and type:packaging tags to describe deployment/packaging deliverables | 20:34 |
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| * jaypipes perks up... | 20:34 | |
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| ttx | * Introduce type:deployment tag (https://review.openstack.org/295528) | 20:34 |
| ttx | I commented on this one -- I think the requirements are unclear. | 20:34 |
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| ttx | Should every Puppet module get this tag ? Or would they get type:packaging instead ? | 20:34 |
| edleafe | sorry to wake you, jaypipes | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | I think they're overly prescriptive, too, talking about producing fully integrated deployments | 20:35 |
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| * ttx reads recent comments | 20:35 | |
| dhellmann | "is useful for deployments" and "produces a full deployment" are two different things | 20:35 |
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| dhellmann | the former tag is useful for the release team, the latter is less so | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | but may be more useful for some users | 20:35 |
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| ttx | sdake: In my understanding type:packaging applies to main service (or tool) that ends up deploying OpenStack services using packages/recipes/whatever (which may get the type:packaging tag) | 20:35 |
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| sdake | deploys-working-cloud seems reasonable dhellmann | 20:36 |
| ttx | So type:packaging applies to Fuel, and it does not apply to debian/rpm packages | 20:36 |
| ttx | Kolla, Ansible, Chef and Puppet are less clear-cut though -- those seem to do packaging for Docker, Ansible, Chef and Puppet to deploy | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | ttx: do you mean type:deployment? | 20:36 |
| sdake | no type:deployment applies to fuel | 20:36 |
| ttx | so I'd like the requirements to have clear answers for all of those | 20:36 |
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| ttx | type:deployment sorry | 20:36 |
| sdake | ttx agreed I think these need more work | 20:36 |
| sdake | the reason i bring them up | 20:36 |
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| ttx | * Introduce a type:packaging tag (https://review.openstack.org/295971) | 20:37 |
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| sdake | ttx is because other tags (the assert classification in paritcular_) asserts on them | 20:37 |
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| ttx | type:packaging as proposed has another type of issue -- the requirements as worded apply to the whole packaging system rather than specific deliverables | 20:37 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: I was awake. just this particular topic is of special interest to me given sdake's TC candidacy email. | 20:37 |
| sdake | ttx which locks out deployment projects from asserting anything | 20:37 |
| ttx | For example to assess if deb-trove should get type:packaging, I have to look into Debian to see if RabbitMQ is packaged there | 20:37 |
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| annegentle | sdake: this is good stuff, is the end goal clear? Is it to group all deployments or rank within the deployments grouping? | 20:37 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: where he bemoans the RED TAPE. | 20:37 |
| ttx | I'd rather drop those requirements and just give type:packaging to anything that is a package of an openstack thing | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | yeah, let's keep the tag definitions simple | 20:38 |
| sdake | annegentle you got it | 20:38 |
| ttx | same way we give type:library to anything that quacks like a library | 20:38 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: just funnin' ya. But yeah, lotsa tape... | 20:38 |
| annegentle | sdake: heh it can't be both :) | 20:38 |
| sdague | sdake: the one place that I saw you throw up some asserts was on upgrade, but to the best of my knowledge none of the deployments do gate testing for upgrade | 20:38 |
| annegentle | sdake: I mean, it can I spose, but isn't clear yet. | 20:38 |
| sdake | annegentle sorry misread your or as an and | 20:38 |
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| dhellmann | sdague : there is also a mention somewhere in one of the release model tags that allows deployment repos to be out of phase with the rest of the projects | 20:39 |
| annegentle | sdake: no worries | 20:39 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: ah, right | 20:39 |
| annegentle | one q I had on first read through was "where's the ops tags?" | 20:39 |
| sdake | ttx may I have a moment to explain the why of these tags | 20:39 |
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| dhellmann | I can't remember if it was milestone or intermediary, but it would probably apply to both, assuming we don't just define a different release model for that case | 20:39 |
| annegentle | since that effort might be relevant and I don't know where it left off | 20:39 |
| lifeless | sdague: doesn't devstack do that ? | 20:39 |
| sdague | dhellmann: which makes total sense to me, deployment projects having a phase delay with server projects | 20:39 |
| jaypipes | sdake: please do tell. I'm very interested in the answer to that question. | 20:39 |
| ttx | sdake: sure | 20:39 |
| lifeless | sdague: (and it clearly is a type:deployment...) | 20:40 |
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| sdague | devstack doesn't upgrade | 20:40 |
| ttx | please let sdake explain | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | sdague : right, it's just not clear which solution is best, a new model or an exceptions to the existing model | 20:40 |
| dtroyer | lifeless: please don't let DevStack get a tag that encourages any use outside development or testing | 20:40 |
| sdague | dtroyer: ++ | 20:40 |
| * dhellmann waits for sdake | 20:40 | |
| sdake | jaypipes the reason i introduced these tags is I think it is unfair to deployment projects to be excluded from tagging with assertions | 20:40 |
| sdake | jaypipes the project tag came out of a discussion in the review with ttx that we should also have a packaging tag | 20:40 |
| sdake | i know life is unfair, but we shoudl be a fair organization ;) | 20:41 |
| jaypipes | :) | 20:41 |
| ttx | well, you have to think about the goal of that assertion. It's not a badge | 20:41 |
| sdake | i am less hot on the packaging tag | 20:41 |
| ttx | It's about communicating some information to our users | 20:41 |
| sdake | ttx I agree its not a badge, but for example kolla upgrades | 20:41 |
| sdake | yet we can't assert it | 20:41 |
| ttx | That assertion communicates which service projects support cold and rolling upgrades | 20:41 |
| jroll | is there a specific assertion at hand here, or is it about all of them? | 20:41 |
| jroll | ah, upgrades | 20:41 |
| sdague | sdake: in the gate? | 20:42 |
| sdake | so if someone looks at he automated tooling release produces, we can't indicate it | 20:42 |
| lifeless | sdake: kolla itself can be upgraded | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | sdake, why can't kolla assert upgrades? | 20:42 |
| lifeless | sdake: or kolla can upgrade other things? | 20:42 |
| sdake | sdague not yet, but we can do that triviallly | 20:42 |
| ttx | dhellmann: because the assert tag calls type:service specifically | 20:42 |
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| sdake | dhellmann because the upgrade tag specifically says it only appliees to type:service | 20:42 |
| annegentle | ah, ok | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | ah, ok, so that'll be easy to fix with this change | 20:42 |
| sdake | i'm just trying to fix the tags so they make sense :) | 20:42 |
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| EmilienM | sdake: ++ | 20:43 |
| lifeless | sdake: and kolla doesn't have any service? | 20:43 |
| sdague | sdake: ok, the current upgrade asserts were definitely written with servers in mind. I think it would be cool to do the right thing for deployment tools there as well, but it might be a different description of what it means | 20:43 |
| ttx | I'd rather fix the assertion (or create another one) than create extra type tags just to support that assertion | 20:43 |
| sdake | maybe i wentabout it the wrong way, but I think I shave a right to submit changes to hte governance repo ;) | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | sure, I suspect the type:service was there to avoid worrying about type:library, not to exclude deployment things | 20:43 |
| EmilienM | lifeless: no, it's a deployment tool | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | sdake : the approach is fine, the details need work | 20:43 |
| jroll | sdake: ++, feels like a separate tag to me for can-upgrade-openstack vs supports-being-upgraded | 20:43 |
| jroll | sdague: ^^ | 20:43 |
| lifeless | EmilienM: I know what it is, but your answer doesn't help\ | 20:43 |
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| ttx | jroll: ++ | 20:43 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: yeah and does it need REST API info, that sort of thing | 20:43 |
| sdague | jroll: yeh, that seems like a good idea | 20:43 |
| lifeless | EmilienM: fuel is a deployment tool, and it has a service | 20:44 |
| sdake | dhellmann wfm i am willing to finish the job ;) | 20:44 |
| edleafe | sdake: is there any part of kolla that is long-running that would need a rolling upgrade? | 20:44 |
| ttx | annegentle: and a service catalog entry | 20:44 |
| annegentle | ttx: yeah | 20:44 |
| ttx | Again, not saying that the type:deployment and type:packaging are bad ideas... I could see some use for them. But I think the motivation is a bit wrong | 20:44 |
| sdake | edleafe not at htis time | 20:45 |
| sdake | everthing in kolla itself is stateless | 20:45 |
| ttx | if the goal is that you can assert tags | 20:45 |
| edleafe | sdake: thx | 20:45 |
| lifeless | sdake: where is kolla's state stored? | 20:45 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: I think the type:deployment serves a useful taxonomical purpose above and beyond any relation to assertion tags. | 20:45 |
| annegentle | sdake: so to me sounds like a grouping that would then enable further tagging | 20:45 |
| ttx | jaypipes: right | 20:45 |
| annegentle | jaypipes: agree | 20:45 |
| sdake | lifeless that is a long complciated discussion better left for a different forum :) come join us on #kolla to find out | 20:45 |
| sdague | yeh, deployment tools aren't always obvious by their name | 20:45 |
| jaypipes | jroll: ++ | 20:45 |
| lifeless | sdake: (excuse my ignorange :)) | 20:45 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: that sounds correct | 20:45 |
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| sdake | annegentle you got it | 20:45 |
| sdague | so putting that into the mix seems like a good iea | 20:45 |
| sdague | idea | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes : yeah, I just worry because we do have some release tools that use the type tags now, so we may have holes if we add a bunch of new ones. That said, these seem reasonable. | 20:46 |
| sdake | lifeless its ok - I barely understand it myself ;) | 20:46 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: these seem like an okay starting point | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : yep | 20:46 |
| EmilienM | lifeless: excuse my ignorance too | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : with some refinement | 20:46 |
| sdake | dhellmann i will help fix the release tools if i can | 20:46 |
| lifeless | I'm +1 on adding deployment, it seems like a no-brainer. The packaging one I am still confused by | 20:46 |
| sdake | dhellmann i assume you are tlakingabout the release repo? | 20:46 |
| ttx | dhellmann: right, I like type:deployment to describe tools that end up deploying openstack, and type:packaging to describe recipes/packages/cookbooks/playbooks thingies | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | sdake : release and release-tools, yes | 20:47 |
| sdake | dhellmann ok i'll hve to read up on release-tools | 20:47 |
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| sdake | -etoomanyrepos | 20:47 |
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| sdake | ttx that is exactly what i was ater | 20:47 |
| sdake | perhaps it was worded poorly | 20:47 |
| ttx | I just feel like those two definitions are off the mark and need some work. Happy to go through iterations with sdake | 20:47 |
| sdake | i am open to suggetstions on language in the review | 20:47 |
| jroll | IMO puppet/ansible/etc things are deployment tools, not packaging | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I think we can do that offline | 20:48 |
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| jroll | they don't produce an output | 20:48 |
| * jroll will comment in review | 20:48 | |
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| ttx | jroll: yeah, but they are recipes that another tool will use to deploy a specific service, no ? | 20:48 |
| EmilienM | jroll: right, and we actually consume packaging. | 20:48 |
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| fungi | and also can _be_ packaged | 20:48 |
| jroll | ttx: yes, but they are not packages, they are essentially plugins | 20:48 |
| fungi | (e.g., debian's packages of puppet modules) | 20:48 |
| jroll | or rather, they are not packaging tools | 20:48 |
| jroll | they don't produce a package, they are directives for a deployment system to read and execute | 20:49 |
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| ttx | jroll: right they don't contain the source code, but that's about the only difference | 20:49 |
| sdake | i dont have expereince with pupept or chef so have hard time clarifyign their requriements | 20:49 |
| lifeless | everyone openstack is packaged upstream anyway ... | 20:49 |
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| sdake | EmilienM if you do could you clarify what you would expect out of them in the review? | 20:49 |
| sdague | yeh, I think it's worth just punting on the packaging thing because it's confusing, and no one really seems to need it right now | 20:50 |
| sdague | the deployment tag seems useful | 20:50 |
| ttx | a package is just source code bundled with metadata that a deployment system uses to install them | 20:50 |
| EmilienM | sdake: sure thing. | 20:50 |
| sdake | sdague wfm, i was just following through on ttx's implied request | 20:50 |
| ttx | a plugin/recipe/cookbook/playbook is just that packaging metadata | 20:50 |
| lifeless | ttx: well, install system to install... deployment systems are (IMO) really a abstraction layer up again.. | 20:50 |
| sdague | sdake: yep, no worries. Lets just on-demand solve problems we need to solve, and leave the philosophy of packaging to bars in austin :) | 20:51 |
| ttx | lifeless: sure. But puppet-trove should imho get type:packaging, not type:deployment | 20:51 |
| sdake | sdague wfm ;) | 20:51 |
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| ttx | it's metadata that Puppet uses to deploy trove. | 20:51 |
| annegentle | sdake: sdague: heh | 20:51 |
| sdague | ttx: by that regard devstack is packaging. I think there are so many grey areas here we can go in circles for ever. | 20:52 |
| jroll | ttx: I guess it depends if the packaging tag is about tools to produce a package or packages themselves :) | 20:52 |
| annegentle | sdague: eeeeek | 20:52 |
| lifeless | ttx: Lets defer packaging for now :). Life is too short. | 20:52 |
| ttx | My head hurts now | 20:52 |
| jroll | but yeah, agree on punting on packaging | 20:52 |
| sdake | jroll in the case of kolla, we hve a script which abstracts ansible | 20:52 |
| sdague | lifeless: ++ | 20:52 |
| EmilienM | ttx: I don't understand why, puppet-trove deploy trove using packaging provided by ubuntu/rdo/whatever, isn't? | 20:52 |
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| sdake | shell script | 20:52 |
| sdake | ansible deploys containers | 20:52 |
| sdake | containers contain packaging metadata | 20:52 |
| sdake | ansible contains deployment tooling | 20:53 |
| sdague | turtles all the way down | 20:53 |
| ttx | EmilienM: too many ways to slice it I guess | 20:53 |
| ttx | sdague: yep | 20:53 |
| ttx | Oh well, let's iterate on the review | 20:53 |
| sdake | please, i think we cant solve it in this meeting ;) | 20:53 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:53 | |
| edleafe | the important thing, IMO, is how a user would view the tool | 20:53 |
| sdake | that is why gerrit rocks ;) | 20:53 |
| jaypipes | heh | 20:53 |
| sdague | edleafe: agreed | 20:53 |
| jaypipes | that's a first. | 20:53 |
| sdague | this information is for end users | 20:53 |
| dims | sdake : is the idea that a version of kolla can deploy multiple versions of openstack? that's one way to differentiate between packaging and deployment? | 20:53 |
| ttx | edleafe: yes, you should focus on the information you want to convey | 20:53 |
| * jeblair high fives gerrit | 20:53 | |
| ttx | Cross-project track planning still going at: | 20:54 |
| sdague | gerrit gives jeblair back a 502 | 20:54 |
| sdake | dims only one version but we can also upgrade to the next | 20:54 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-cross-project-sessions | 20:54 |
| annegentle | we need more proposals there right? | 20:54 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: :) | 20:54 |
| edleafe | sdague: heh | 20:54 |
| ttx | we need more proposals indeed | 20:54 |
| jeblair | sdague: HIGH-502 | 20:54 |
| sdague | jeblair: ++ | 20:54 |
| ttx | only 9 entries so far | 20:54 |
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| sdague | it's early, and was a holiday weekend | 20:54 |
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| annegentle | ok | 20:54 |
| * amrith wonders if we'll get to open discussion today | 20:54 | |
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| sdague | I just sent out another reminder to folks | 20:54 |
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| anteaya | amrith: we are in it | 20:54 |
| ttx | amrith: we are in open discussion | 20:54 |
| annegentle | amrith: lucky you we're there! | 20:54 |
| lifeless | I had a q for the TC as a whole - how did you perceive me during these last two cycles; would you like having me on the TC again, or not? | 20:54 |
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| amrith | that's odd, my status line didn't update. | 20:55 |
| amrith | A shameless plug for feedback (lazy consensus reviews) on https://review.openstack.org/295887. | 20:55 |
| amrith | Also a request for review on https://review.openstack.org/295733 and https://review.openstack.org/296489 | 20:55 |
| ttx | lifeless: my stats show you on the "active" quadrant. Your call :) | 20:55 |
| anteaya | amrith: you have to tell folks why you are asking folks for reviews in the tc meeting | 20:55 |
| ttx | I started the etherpad on the video pieces of advice for Design Summit session moderators: | 20:55 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/austin-summit-video | 20:55 |
| * sdake wtb ttx's stats tooling | 20:55 | |
| ttx | If you have original points you want to make, please add to that ^ | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | amrith : if there are no negative reviews on those after a week they'll be approved | 20:56 |
| jeblair | ttx: what i saw on the etherpad yesterday looked good | 20:56 |
| amrith | dhellmann, thanks. | 20:56 |
| ttx | So to complement lifeless point, TC nominations this week -- we are renewing the 7 seats currently held by jeblair, lifeless, flaper87, markmcclain, jaypipes, dtroyer, and myself | 20:56 |
| amrith | anteaya, because I didn't know how 'lazy consensus' works. | 20:56 |
| ttx | If you plan to run, don't forget to send your nomination before the deadline | 20:56 |
| amrith | dhellmann, just clarified. | 20:56 |
| amrith | so I'm all set. | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | lifeless : ++ if you have the time an energy, run again | 20:56 |
| ttx | If you plan not to run for reelection, announce that early so that it encourages others to run | 20:56 |
| EmilienM | talking about tags: Puppet OpenStack group is currently applying for release:cycle-with-intermediary tag - please look https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297382/ | 20:56 |
| sdague | on the cross project session scheduling, who would like to be involved in that? I'll organize together folks next week. Typically it's anyone in the TC that's up for taking a few hours and weighing in. | 20:57 |
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| ttx | sdague: I'm fine helping | 20:57 |
| fungi | also reminder, though you probably all know, nominations go to gerrit now. those who were last elected a year ago, that wasn't the case | 20:57 |
| dtroyer | sdague: o/ | 20:57 |
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| edleafe | lifeless: although it means more competition for me, I think you've done an excellent job and should run again if you're so inclined | 20:57 |
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| lifeless | fungi: is there a docs page on that ? | 20:57 |
| ttx | lifeless: see email to -dev announcing election | 20:58 |
| markmcclain | sdague: I can help out | 20:58 |
| lifeless | ttx: thanks | 20:58 |
| fungi | lifeless: good question. for the ptl elections it was documented at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_March_2016 | 20:58 |
| fungi | tristanC or tonyb should have a proper url somewhere | 20:58 |
| anteaya | lifeless: on the wiki home page click governance | 20:59 |
| fungi | was probably in the announcement about opening the nominations period | 20:59 |
| ttx | I think it's TC and April for the TC one | 20:59 |
| anteaya | lifeless: it lists all the election wikipages | 20:59 |
| sdague | ok, I'll send out a general email get feedback from folks for a round of voting on things, then I'll sort out a good time to do synchronous block to actually slot things | 20:59 |
| anteaya | current and past | 20:59 |
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| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TC_Elections_April_2016 | 20:59 |
| lifeless | fungi: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TC_Elections_April_2016#How_to_submit_your_candidacy | 20:59 |
| tristanC | are you looking for https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TC_Elections_April_2016 ? | 20:59 |
| fungi | yep, that looks like it | 20:59 |
| lifeless | sdague: I'll happily contribute time | 20:59 |
| lifeless | sdague: if the meeting is vague asiapac sensible; if its not thats ok | 21:00 |
| ttx | sdague: do you have a closing date for cross-project suggestions ? | 21:00 |
| lifeless | sdague: I'm sure the outcome will be an epic compromise as always :) | 21:00 |
| sdague | ttx: yes, end of the week | 21:00 |
| sdague | per initial post | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | (time) | 21:00 |
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| sdague | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/090201.html | 21:00 |
| ttx | time indeed | 21:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 29 21:01:10 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-29-20.03.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-29-20.03.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-29-20.03.log.html | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for Qiming TravT gordc dirk mriedem SergeyLukjanov | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for daemontool jroll boris-42 redrobot flaper87 rhochmuth | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for fungi flwang dims vipul johnthetubaguy rakhmerov | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for docaedo stevemar mtreinish bswartz adam_g adrian_otto | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for zigo Piet sdake mugsie sheeprine thinrichs | 21:01 |
| lifeless | thingee: echannel ? | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for jklare loquacities smelikyan Daisy skraynev odyssey4me | 21:01 |
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| thingee | courtesy ping for samueldmq nikhil | 21:01 |
| thingee | meet in #openstack-meeting-cp please! | 21:01 |
| zigo | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | echannel | 21:01 |
| thingee | just trying to get more people in there | 21:01 |
| ttx | hah | 21:01 |
| jroll | heh | 21:01 |
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| ttx | lazy redirect | 21:01 |
| lifeless | thingee: perhaps we should use this channel instead then :) | 21:01 |
| dims | o/ | 21:01 |
| dims | we need to invite the incoming PTL(s) | 21:02 |
| nikhil | dims: in the other channel actually :) | 21:02 |
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| nikhil | ie. -cp one | 21:02 |
| Rocky_g | o/ | 21:02 |
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| dims | nikhil :) | 21:07 |
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