Tuesday, 2016-05-10

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Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue May 10 13:00:45 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
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zzxwillGood evening.13:01
Qimingwelcome back13:01
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Qimingo/, zzxwill13:01
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zzxwillThanks. Crazy with my work recently:(13:02
Qiminghi, haiwei, in taipei?13:02
haiweiback now13:02
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Qimingactually, I only manage to restore my work env 1 hour ago13:02
Qiminglost my laptop at austin airport13:02
zzxwillOh, it was a pity.13:03
elynnGot a new one?13:03
Qimingthe only item I have in mind is about newton work items13:03
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Qimingfeel free to add topics to meeting agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda13:03
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yanyanhuJust add a topic about adding new workitems based on our discussion in summit13:04
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Qimingyes, that is also about newton work items13:04
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Qiming_let's quickly go thru the current list13:06
yanyanhuhi, cschulz_13:06
Qiming_#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems13:06
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Qiming_scalability improvement, need to sync with xujun/junwei13:06
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yanyanhusome of them have been done and some should be obsoleted13:06
Qiming_tempest test13:07
Qiming_we are on track13:07
yanyanhume and ethan are working on it13:07
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Qiming_basic support is there13:07
elynnWe are working on API tests13:07
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elynnstill need policy type list and profile type list and negative tests13:07
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elynnDo we need to add a gate job for it?13:07
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elynnin experimental13:08
Qiming_sure, that would be nice13:08
elynnok, I will work on it then.13:08
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yanyanhumay also need to rework the client to enable negative test. Or we can use exception not resp status to verify the result13:08
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elynnAbout the negative tests for API13:09
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yanyanhuI mean the clusteringclient of tempest test13:09
Qiming_need to test the status code at least, imo13:09
elynndo we only check the respond code?13:09
yanyanhuQiming_, yes13:09
yanyanhuagree with this. So we may need to invoke raw_request directly13:10
elynnI think only check status code and respond body is enough for API negative tests.13:10
yanyanhuelynn, yes13:11
Qiming_if we are bringing in senlinclient into this, it looks then more like a functional test of senlinclient, instead of an API test of the server13:11
Qiming_so.. benchmarking13:11
elynnExisting client can not return a bad status code?13:11
yanyanhubasic support has been done13:11
yanyanhuin rally side13:11
Qiming_lixinhui_, any update?13:12
yanyanhuwill work on some simplest test case based on it13:12
yanyanhubut maybe not now13:12
lixinhui_is it about benchmarking?13:13
yanyanhuelynn, nope, the failure will be caught by rest client of tempest lib and converted to exception13:13
Qiming_I'm wondering if bran and xinhui has done some experiments on engine/api stress test13:13
lixinhui_we are13:13
elynnyanyanhu, okay, I got your point...13:13
lixinhui_we are bottlenecked by nova13:14
Qiming_still need to overcome the scalability issue of oslo.messaging?13:14
lixinhui_not really about oslo13:14
lixinhui_but nova13:14
Qiming_nova api rate-limit?13:14
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yanyanhuoh, about this topics, I think there should be some performance improvement benefit from lastet scheduler rework13:14
lixinhui_something like that13:15
yanyanhuI mean the performance of senlin engine13:15
lixinhui_we may try to resolve it at driver layer13:15
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lixinhui_from product env13:15
lixinhui_we have rally and heat based13:15
Qiming_okay, we need some rough numbers using both the fake driver and the real one13:15
lixinhui_stress tests13:15
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yanyanhuQiming_, agree13:15
lixinhui_but that will depends on if we need bring in senlin into this test env13:16
Qiming_yes, it would be nice to know senlin has scalability issue or not13:17
Qiming_the earlier the better13:17
lixinhui_Bran has tried with simulated one13:17
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Qiming_maybe we can paste the numbers on senlin wiki?13:17
lixinhui_and found that no up limit on the13:17
lixinhui_one engine13:18
lixinhui_but parallel tests will need more time13:18
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yanyanhu maybe I should implement a basic rally plugin for senlin cluster and node operation to support this test13:18
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yanyanhulixinhui_, if you guys need it, please just tell me13:18
lixinhui_not really now13:18
Qiming_I see, so there is a dependency13:18
lixinhui_thanks yanyanhu13:18
yanyanhuno problem13:19
lixinhui_we will keep working on multiple engine simulted driver test13:19
Qiming_or these two threads can go in parallel13:19
Qiming_please check if we can record these "baseline" numbers into senlin wiki: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Senlin13:20
Qiming_Rally side13:20
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yanyanhubasic support for senlin in rally has been done. Will start to work on plugin13:20
Qiming_we are still about to commit rally test cases to rally project?13:21
yanyanhuwill start from basic cluster operations13:21
Qiming_by plug-in, you mean we will be hosting the rally test cases?13:21
yanyanhuQiming_, we can if we want to I think13:21
yanyanhuto hold the test jobs13:22
Qiming_what's the suggestion from rally team?13:22
yanyanhuthey sugguest us to contribute the plugin to rally repo13:22
yanyanhuwhich I think makes sense13:22
yanyanhufor those jobs, we can hold it in senlin repo I think13:22
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Qiming_... jobs are not modelled as plugins?13:23
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yanyanhuno, jobs means those job description file :)13:23
Qiming_what is this then? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/301522/13:23
yanyanhuthose yaml or json file13:23
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yanyanhuQiming_, those jobs are used as example to verify the plugin :)13:24
Qiming_okay, makes sense13:24
yanyanhumore jobs should be defined per our test requirement13:24
yanyanhuwhich I guess should be hold by ourselves13:24
Qiming_that is fine13:24
Qiming_pls help make that plugin work so others may help contribute job definitions etc.13:25
yanyanhuwill work on it13:26
Qiming_health management13:26
Qiming_em, a huge topic indeed13:26
lixinhui_is trying the linux HA13:26
Qiming_for health detection?13:26
Qiming_or recovery, or both?13:27
lixinhui_wanna Qiming_ to share more picture in your mind13:27
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Qiming_you mean photo from San Antonio?13:27
lixinhui_based on dicussion with adam and DD13:27
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lixinhui_with CentOS13:27
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Qiming_got it13:28
lixinhui_but you know13:28
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lixinhui_just wanna to know more picture13:28
Qiming_need to spend sometime on the specs and the etherpad13:28
lixinhui_about the HA story13:28
Qiming_we cannot cover all HA requirement in our very first step13:28
Qiming_we may not be able to cover them all in future13:29
lixinhui_from presentation of Adam and DD13:29
Qiming_need to focus on some typical usage scenarios13:29
lixinhui_They hope to leverage Senlin on Recover and13:29
lixinhui_but is that assumed design by ourselves?13:30
Qiming_so ... let's focus on the user story then13:30
cschulz_What is your thought, that HM will create events that may trigger cluster actions based on cluster policies?13:30
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Qiming_we will build the story step by step13:31
lixinhui_that is the recover part13:31
Qiming_first step is check/recover mechanism, the very basic ones13:31
Qiming_and fencing may become part of the recover process13:31
cschulz_So there probably also needs to be policy like things in HM that defines how the health of a cluster is assessed?13:32
Qiming_second step is to try introduce some intelligence on failure detection13:32
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yanyanhuhealth check and failure recovery can be two workitems in parallel I guess?13:32
Qiming_third step is to link the pieces together using some sample health policies13:32
lixinhui_actually I do not think we should do many check things13:33
Qiming_yes, guess so13:33
cschulz_agreed, health checking is independent of what actions you take when you've made an assessment13:33
Qiming_if users don't like the health policy, we still provide some basic APIs for them to do cluster-check, cluster-recover [--with-fence], etc.13:33
cschulz_Actually that is where I'd start13:34
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Qiming_user may don't like the way we do health checking, still, they can do cluster-recover by triggering that operation from their software/service13:34
cschulz_Then add some basic mechanisms for those who just want simple13:34
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Qiming_I cannot assume we understand all usage scenarios13:35
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Qiming_:) I was challenged by linux-ha author during my presentation --- how do you detect application failure?13:36
cschulz_And your answer was?13:36
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Qiming_it is a huge space, we cannot assume we know all the answers13:36
Qiming_application failure detection is currenly out of senlin's scope13:36
haiweiI think so13:37
lixinhui_that is his anwser13:37
lixinhui_from this13:37
Qiming_there are plenty of software doing application monitoring, use them13:37
lixinhui_I do not think we can understand the use case today13:37
Qiming_but we can start from the basics13:37
lixinhui_or the design on the loop of check and recover13:37
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yanyanhuso the key is how to leverge those monitoring tools/services13:38
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lixinhui_but trying to provide some basic investment13:38
yanyanhuto detect failure of node/app happened in senlin cluster13:38
lixinhui_on the choice of failure proceing13:38
Qiming_we leave choices to users, though we do provide some basic support to simple cases13:38
lixinhui_even today13:39
lixinhui_'s evacuate13:39
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Qiming_recover a heat stack is completely different from recovering a nova server13:39
lixinhui_can not work well with all guest OS and hypervisor13:39
Qiming_you are already onto masakari?13:39
lixinhui_tries some that function of masakari13:39
lixinhui_need to investigate more13:40
Qiming_... big thanks!13:40
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cschulz_masakari is new to me.  Will investigate13:40
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lixinhui_it has a vagrant and chef deployer, cschulz13:41
Qiming_for HA support, let's focus on planning13:41
yanyanhuthis one?13:41
Qiming_build stories on the etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-ha-recover13:41
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Qiming_yanyanhu, yes13:41
Qiming_moving on13:41
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Qiming_documentation side13:42
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Qiming_I'm working on API documentation in RST13:42
Qiming_hopefully, it can be done soon, then I can switch to tutorial/wiki docs13:43
yanyanhuwill provide some help on it13:43
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Qiming_great, yanyanhu13:43
Qiming_container support13:43
Qiming_haiwei, maybe we can check in the container profile as an experimental one13:43
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haiweiyou mean just create one first?13:44
Qiming_yes, very simple one is okay13:44
Qiming_it has to work, it has to be clean13:44
Qiming_we can improve it gradually13:44
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haiweiok, I will submit some patches for it13:45
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Qiming_then we can start looking into the specific issues when CLUSTERING containers together13:45
Qiming_at the same time, we will watch the progress of the Higgins project: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/313935/13:46
haiweiyes, I noticed it recently13:46
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Qiming_if that one grows fast, we can spend less and less energy at this layer13:47
Qiming_just focusing on the clustering aspect of the problem13:47
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yanyanhuagree :)13:47
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Qiming_that's why I think a simple profile suffices13:47
Qiming_for us to think about the next layer13:47
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Qiming_"tickless" scheduler is out13:48
Qiming_that is great!!!13:48
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yanyanhuit do improve the efficiency of our scheduler13:49
Qiming_any news from zaqar investigation?13:49
yanyanhuvery appreciated your suggestion in summit :P13:49
lixinhui_about event and notice mechanism13:49
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cschulz_I've been very distracted since week of Austin summit, so not much progress.13:50
lixinhui_I do not know if that is related to the scenario discussion on summit13:50
lixinhui_but vmware PM13:50
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lixinhui_on customisable reaction13:50
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Qiming_lixinhui_, I was thinking of this scenario13:51
lixinhui_or just related to the processing of action13:51
cschulz_Can someone give me a brief on the scenario discussion?13:51
Qiming_for vmware vm monitoring13:51
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Qiming_senlin can emit events for vmware to listen13:51
Qiming_so that it will know which node belongs to which cluster13:52
lixinhui_that will be great13:52
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Qiming_it will have some knowledge to filter out irrelevant vms when doing maths on metrics13:52
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lixinhui_that is desired by mix deployment env13:53
Qiming_okay, we can work on a design first13:53
Qiming_a multi-string configuration option for event backend13:53
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Qiming_we only have database backend implemented13:53
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Qiming_we can add http, message queue as backends13:54
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Qiming_detailed design is still needed13:55
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Qiming_em... only 5 mins left13:55
cschulz_Are events predefined?  Or can a stack/cluster define events it wants?13:55
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Qiming_yes, cschulz13:55
yanyanhuQiming_, maybe we postpone the second topic to next meeting13:55
yanyanhuabout adding new workitems based on discussion in summit13:55
Qiming_there are followups wrt the design summit sessions13:56
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Qiming_need to dump them into TODO items13:56
Qiming_and those items will be migrated to this etherpad for progress checking13:56
Qiming_for example, profile/policy validation13:57
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Qiming_that means one or two apis to be added13:57
Qiming_when someone has cycles to work on it, we can add it to the etherpad13:57
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Qiming_the same applies to all other topics we have discussed during the summit13:57
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Qiming_that's all from my side13:58
Qiming_two mins left for free discussions13:58
Qiming_#topic open topics13:58
lixinhui_that was good discussion there in Austin13:58
yanyanhuyep :)13:59
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cschulz_Anyone can send me anything they would like proofread for English.13:59
Qiming_okay, we successfully used up the 1 hour slot, :)13:59
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Qiming_thanks, cschulz_13:59
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Qiming_thanks everyone for joining14:00
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* regXboi finds a corner in the room and quietly snores14:00
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Qiming_cannot end meeting14:00
Qiming_nickname occupied I think14:01
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Sam-I-Amhello networking nerds14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:02
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 10 14:02:04 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:02
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-05-10-13.00.html14:02
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-05-10-13.00.txt14:02
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-05-10-13.00.log.html14:02
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dasmnerds? who? where?14:02
HenryGhey neutrinos14:02
HenryG#startmeeting networking14:02
openstackMeeting started Tue May 10 14:02:38 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is HenryG. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:02
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HenryGIhar is on vacation this week, and our intrepid PTL is still asleep as usual for this time. So I am chairing today.14:03
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HenryG#topic Announcements14:03
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HenryGSummit session reports have been posted to the mailing list.14:04
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HenryGA list of links is here:  https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings#Announcements_.2F_Reminders14:04
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HenryGFor the Neutron stadium evolution there is a spec under review ...14:04
HenryG#link https://review.openstack.org/31219914:05
Sam-I-Amits not controversial at all :)14:05
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bloganeveryone is slowly coming around to it :)14:05
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mesteryKudos to armax for his work on that patch14:05
Sam-I-Amyeah, its tough to write controversial stuff14:06
Sam-I-Amask me how i know :)14:06
amullerwe should deprecate the LB agent14:06
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Sam-I-Amamuller: yeah, and l3 ha.14:06
amotokiwhat does LB mean?14:06
Sam-I-Amdvr+ovs all the way14:06
amullergood idea14:06
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amotokilinux bridge? load balancer?14:06
* Sam-I-Am runs away14:06
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amulleramotoki: both14:06
HenryGLB = load balancer14:06
njohnstonamuller: At first I read that as "deprecate the layer-eight agent".  Now that would be a thing.14:07
haleybSam-I-Am: i was going to say dvr too :)14:07
Sam-I-Amsigh, we're all too fiesty this morning. i havent even had coffee yet.14:07
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* regXboi continues chuckling in the background14:07
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HenryGThis is constructive. Let's move on.14:07
HenryG#topic Blueprints14:08
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HenryG#link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/newton-114:08
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HenryGMany on that list will not make N-1 methinks14:08
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HenryGNewton-1 milestone: http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html#n-114:08
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HenryGRemaining BPs will bump to N-2 after that14:09
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HenryGI would like to point out one BP/spec that will affect everyone pretty drastically ...14:09
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HenryG#link https://review.openstack.org/25736214:10
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korzen__rossella_s, in OVO we are still using the tenant_id14:10
HenryGThis is the Keystone V3 adoption. It will (probably) rename all tenant_id columns to project_id.14:11
rossella_skorzen, we should take care of that14:11
HenryGYes, OVO folks should pay close attention14:11
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Sam-I-AmHenryG: yeah, tenant needs to go14:11
Sam-I-Amit causes confusion in the docs14:11
korzencan we postpone the migration till OVO is adopted and do it in online migration?14:11
HenryGkorzen: Please comment on the spec review14:12
dasmkorzen: it was one of initial ideas. let's discuss (again) on spec.14:12
amotokiAPI/DB/OVO can migrate to project_id in different timing. OVO allows us to do so :)14:12
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korzenHenryG, will do14:12
amotokiwhat I am not sure is when we have online migration support. newton?14:12
HenryGamotoki: My guess is later14:13
amotokibut it should be discussed in the spec.14:13
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korzenHenryG, in Ocata or P-release14:13
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HenryGamotoki: We need to stop renaming things in the DB for online migration support14:13
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HenryGmoving on ...14:15
HenryG#topic Bugs14:15
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* regXboi wakes up14:15
HenryGregXboi: but first ...14:15
HenryGWho wants to be Bug deputy for this week?14:15
regXboiwhile we wait for volunteers14:16
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regXboithe good news is that we have 0 critical bugs this week14:16
regXboithe bad news is that we have 49 high importance bugs and 117 bugs in the "new" state14:16
regXboiso... needs to see about getting some more triage done :(14:17
amotokihow many new bugs without tags do we have?14:17
HenryGNote: *Everyone* is welcome to pitch in and help with bugs any time.14:18
regXboithat's a tough query14:18
amotokijust from my curiosity. never mind.14:18
haleybsorry, was asleep, i can volunteer, week is almost half-over, right? :)14:18
regXboiwe can query for any tags, or all tags, but not *no* tags14:18
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regXboiHenryG: there we go...14:19
* regXboi passes golden fly swatter to haleyb14:19
amotokione thing to note is that if a bug is tagged someone familiar with an area can triage the bug.14:19
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HenryG#action haleyb is Bug Deputy for May 09 week14:19
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HenryGthanks haleyb !14:19
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regXboibecause we don't have any critical bugs, I'm done - let's move on14:20
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HenryGAny Bug Deputy volunteers for next week? May 16.14:20
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hichiharaI will do next week14:21
HenryGThanks hichihara !14:21
HenryG#action hichihara is bug deputy for week of May 1614:22
Tung_Hi all14:22
HenryG#topic Gate Stability14:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Gate Stability (Meeting topic: networking)"14:22
HenryGA reminder to please keep an eye on ...14:23
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HenryG#link http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate14:23
HenryGThe functional job still needs some love14:23
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HenryGI do know amuller and jlibosva have been trying14:24
haleybthe failure rate in the gate queue did fall-off sometime over night, from 25 to <5%14:24
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amullerHenryG: jlibosva actually foot the root cause late last night14:24
jlibosvayesterday we finally found the root cause now we need to come up with fix14:24
jlibosvaeven though we know what's happening I'm still not able to reproduce locally :(14:25
rossella_sjlibosva, can you give us more details or it's a very long story?14:25
jlibosvaI updated launchpad - the short story is that ovsdb native interface stops responding to periodical echoes sent from ovsdb server14:26
amullerjlibosva: can you link the comment you added to the bug? I'm not sure everyone know what bug is responsible for the functional job's failure rate14:26
* jlibosva searches14:27
openstackLaunchpad bug 1567668 in neutron "Functional job sometimes hits global 2 hour limit and fails" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Jakub Libosvar (libosvar)14:27
Sam-I-AmregXboi: ^14:27
Sam-I-Amcaptain ovs :)14:27
* regXboi looks14:27
amullerI'm confident that between otherwiseguy and jlibosva they can resolve the issue14:28
regXboioh lord14:28
regXboiturn that probe stuff off14:28
regXboijust turn it off14:28
HenryGAlright, great work jlibosva. Let's discuss further in the bug and the neutron channel.14:28
rossella_sthanks jlibosva14:29
jlibosvaregXboi: can you please comment on launchpad? I wonder the impacts and don't want to steal precious time of this mtg :)14:29
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HenryGOther job failure rates need to be addressed ...14:29
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HenryGI have it on my plate to look into the PG job, but I haven't got far with it.14:30
haleybHenryG: I have also seen IP allocation failures recently, don't know if anyone else has14:31
HenryGhaleyb: might be a good idea to bring up in the L3 meeting?14:32
regXboijlibosva: comments posted14:32
jlibosvaregXboi: thank you :)14:32
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regXboiSam-I-Am: captain ovs????14:32
HenryGhaleyb: a more focused group of people there perhaps14:32
Sam-I-AmregXboi: yeah :)14:32
haleybHenryG: yeah, it doesn't seem agent-specific, i'll keep looking14:32
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HenryGAny other comments on the gate jobs?14:33
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amotokidoes anyone follow up the status of ovo 1.9.0 issue?14:33
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HenryGI saw dims and garyk discussing it in the channel earlier14:34
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amotokiand i saw ajo jumped in.14:35
HenryGSomething about reverting back to 1.8.0 I think.14:35
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amotokiat now upper-constraint.txt uses ovo 1.8.0 and the gate works. more investigation is ongoing. will catch up later.14:36
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HenryGthanks amotoki14:36
HenryGmoving on14:37
HenryG#topic Docs14:37
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HenryGNote that the OpenStack docs policies and tooling are evolving.14:37
HenryG"Easing contributions to central documentation" by Sam-I-Am:14:37
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HenryG#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/094390.html14:37
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Sam-I-Amtrying to make your lives better14:38
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HenryGI think it's awesome. Please give feedback to Sam-I-Am there.14:38
Sam-I-Amalso discussing how to split help strings into long and short descriptions so the config files can be shorter, but the auto-generated docs longer14:38
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Sam-I-Amand api doc discussions are ongoing on the ML14:39
HenryGLatest update to "getting API Docs off WADL and into RST":14:39
HenryG#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/094472.html14:39
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HenryGamotoki is going to kick this off for Neutron14:39
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Sam-I-Amwoo. we need updated api docs badly.14:40
amotokionce the initial import is merged, I think we need a api-ref sprint to clean up API ref.14:40
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Sam-I-Ambut no one wanted to touch wadl, and i can see why14:40
amotokiIIRC api-site repo review is now frozen.14:41
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HenryGAlso, thanks to Sam-I-Am's efforts, the networking guide is getting more love this cycle. Please contribute where you can.14:43
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Sam-I-Amhopefully going to get a lot done in it14:43
Sam-I-Amno longer working on the install guide, so that frees up a lot of time14:43
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HenryGAny other info or questions on docs?14:45
HenryG#topic Client Transition14:45
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HenryGThis is more of an awareness notice14:46
amotokithere is no update this week. last week are holiday week in Japan and I just returned from the summit.14:46
amotokiI will prepare the update from next week.14:46
amotokirtheis: anything?14:47
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rtheisamotoki: the devref should have the latest status based on summit14:47
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rtheisI have WIP patch sets started for OSC plugin enablement for python-neutronclient14:47
HenryGPlease read up and familiarize yourself with the plan. Use "openstack network ..." instead of "neutron ..." with devstack and help to fill in the gaps when you notice them.14:47
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amotokirtheis: agree14:48
rtheisnothing else at this time14:48
HenryGPing rtheis and amotoki if you want to help or need details.14:49
amotokifor all developers, let's use 'openstack network ...' in newton cycle and clarify the gap and let's fill it :)14:49
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Sam-I-Amisnt it actually 'openstack networking' ?14:49
dasmSam-I-Am: nope. just "network"14:49
Sam-I-Amwhen referring to the service, at least14:50
rtheisFYI: there are some existing OSC patches, bp and bugs opened to fill in gaps.14:50
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Sam-I-Amoh, you're talking about the actual cli commands :)14:50
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HenryGrtheis: link to launcpad for OSC bugs?14:50
* Sam-I-Am gets more coffee14:50
dasmSam-I-Am: yep. OSC commands :)14:50
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openstackLaunchpad bug 1545537 in python-openstackclient "Enhancements to OS Network CRUD" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)14:52
amotokipending OSC reviews are found at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osc-neutron-support14:52
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openstackLaunchpad bug 1578819 in python-openstackclient "Add network list filtering options" [Low,Confirmed] - Assigned to Deepti Ramakrishna (dramakri)14:53
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vikram___rtheis: when subprojects should start CLI transition14:53
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rtheisvikram____: are you referring to *aaS?14:53
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vikram___rtheis: networking-sfc and dynamic-routing .. both :)14:54
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amotokivikram___: we first need to merge OSC plugin patch from rtheis. once it is merged, we can implement osc plugin for *aas and similar stuffs.14:54
vikram___amotoki: so, when we can start ?14:54
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vikram___amotoki: after N-114:54
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amotokinot decided, but i would like to start it around N-1.14:55
rtheisamotoki: that is correct..., anything in python-neutronclient with need plugin support first.  Things outside python-neutronclient can start now14:55
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vikram___amotoki, rtheis: got it .. thanks14:55
HenryGAll right. Four minutes for ...14:56
rtheishere are WIP patches: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/309587/, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/309530/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/309515/14:56
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HenryG#topic Open Discussion14:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)"14:56
vikram___rtheis: I will have a look at those14:56
hichiharaamotoki: This may be what you want about OVO issue https://review.openstack.org/#/c/307938/14:56
ivc_Hi all. I got some concerns about the current OVO concurrency model when interacting with the DB layer. I'd like to know if it should be discussed here or should I post it on the openstack-dev ML or somewhere else?14:56
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HenryGivc_: ML and #openstack-neutron is good14:58
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amotokihichihara: thanks :)  I am just reading the logs.14:58
hichiharaivc_: +1 to dev-ML14:58
ivc_ok. thanks14:58
amotokiivc_: ML sounds better.14:58
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 10 14:59:34 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-05-10-14.02.html14:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-05-10-14.02.txt14:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-05-10-14.02.log.html14:59
HenryGThanks everyone!14:59
akamyshnikova bye14:59
dasmsee you14:59
rossella_sthanks HenryG for chairing14:59
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hoangcxthanks HenryG, bye all15:00
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carl_baldwinblogan: stick around.  :)15:00
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namnhsee you next meeting15:00
mlavalleyeah, don't run away blogan15:00
carl_baldwin#startmeeting neutron_routed_networks15:01
openstackMeeting started Tue May 10 15:01:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is carl_baldwin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_routed_networks'15:01
carl_baldwin#topic Announcements15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:01
carl_baldwin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-Routed-Networks15:01
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carl_baldwinThe segment CRUD patch merged!15:01
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carl_baldwinI think my next two patches are getting pretty close too.15:02
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carl_baldwinI'm starting to see momentum pick up again since summit killed it a little.  :)15:02
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bloganyep, well i haven't dove into the 3rd one yet too much, but the 2nd one is close15:02
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carl_baldwinWe've got just 3 weeks until Newton-115:03
carl_baldwin#link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html15:03
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carl_baldwinblogan: Thanks for helping out with the feedback.  I've almost got another PS to upload for that one.15:03
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carl_baldwin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/288774/15:03
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carl_baldwinAnother announcement is that I created an etherpad to help myself and others to use the patches that are up.15:04
carl_baldwin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/routed-provider-networks-notes15:05
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rtheiscarl_baldwin: thanks for that pointer to etherpad15:05
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carl_baldwinrtheis: yw, I just noticed your question on my abandoned ML2 patch and responded there.  Did you see it?15:05
rtheiscarl_baldwin: I did see it, thanks15:05
carl_baldwinrtheis: good15:06
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carl_baldwinBasically, we'll leave the segment service plugin disabled by default for now.15:06
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carl_baldwinAny other announcements?15:07
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carl_baldwinI think I'd like to move the progress section of the meeting wiki to the etherpad to avoid having to update it in two places.15:08
rtheissounds good15:08
carl_baldwinBut, for today, I'll use the wiki to be sure I don't miss anything there.15:08
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carl_baldwinWe've already touched on the first two sections of the wiki.  The subnet / segment association patch is looking pretty good.15:09
carl_baldwinSo ...15:09
carl_baldwin#topic Nova Scheduler15:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova Scheduler (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:09
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: hi15:09
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mlavallethe generic pools resource spec is looking very good as far as approval15:10
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mlavalle#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30017615:10
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mlavalleit was discussed yesterday during the nova scheduler meeting15:10
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mlavallethe consensus is that it should merge this week15:11
mlavallethe routed networks spec follows after it15:11
mlavalleso we should be ready to address comments to it15:12
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mlavalleI also had yesterday an irc conversation with johnthetubaguy about the refactoring of "allocate_for_instance" to the conductor15:12
carl_baldwinI've kept an eye on it.  It has been quiet so far.  But, I'll continue to keep an eye on it.15:12
carl_baldwinIf any of you notice comments, let me know of the activity.  I miss a lot of gerrit emails.15:13
carl_baldwinmlavalle: How did that go?15:13
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mlavallethe plan is that he will do the refactoring of the method itself. And then on top of that I will add the routed networks bits15:14
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mlavalleso I plan to review his code as soon as he puts it up and the start adding the routed networks pieces15:14
carl_baldwinmlavalle: So, by the time you touch the code, the relevant parts will be running in the conductor with the 3-phase design?15:15
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mlavallecarl_baldwin: yeap15:15
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: great!15:15
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Does he have any kind of timeline in mind?15:15
mlavalleI was hoping johnthetubaguy might want to comment here...15:15
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mlavalleif he doesn't, i'll follow up with him with the timeline piece :-)15:16
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Thanks.15:16
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mlavallethat's all I have this week on this topic. I will continue monitoring the scheduler team meeting and John's patchsets15:17
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Would you mind updating the etherpad?15:17
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carl_baldwin... especially when patches start showing up.15:17
mlavallecarl_baldwin: I will update it15:17
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Thanks!15:17
carl_baldwin#topic Host / Segment Mapping15:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Host / Segment Mapping (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:18
mlavallehi again15:18
carl_baldwinmlavalle: I've seen an update to your patch that I haven't fully reviewed.15:18
carl_baldwinmlavalle: I will be sure to review it today.15:18
mlavallethis past week I made good progress with host segment mapping15:18
mlavalle#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28554815:19
mlavalleI don't consider it WIP anymore15:19
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mlavalleI think I have addressed the concerns about ML2 details spilling over15:19
mlavalleand also added unit tests, which are passing15:19
mlavallethe patchset is passing all the jenkins tests, except 115:20
mlavalleI have a conversation going on with HenryG about one test of allembic scripts15:20
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bloganill be sure to review that today too15:20
mlavallethat test is failing me becasue I depend on a contract script15:20
carl_baldwinmlavalle: I hit the same problem in my patch.15:21
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mlavalleso when I move my migration script to the contract directory, the test gets angry that I have a create table15:21
HenryGyep, this is getting tricky15:21
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mlavalleso I will work with HenryG to fix that. But other than that, the patchset is good15:22
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Oh, I didn't hit that error.15:22
carl_baldwinmlavalle: I will review today.15:22
HenryGWe may need to disable that test for a while15:22
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HenryGI need to speak to Ihar15:22
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mlavallexiaohhui: thank you for your review. In summary, yes the idea is that we will process bridge mappings coming from all the in tree mechanism drivers15:23
mlavalleI will add unit tests for all of them today15:23
carl_baldwinHenryG: Ya, we may need to relax the constraints a bit for Newton.15:23
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xiaohhuiok, thanks15:23
mlavalleFinally, I made excellent progress with the SR-IOV mechanism river: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/312289/15:24
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: Excellent.  This work is just in time because my IPAM work needs it.  I will work on integrating yours in to mine soon.15:24
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Let's get that merged.  I think it has +1s from the right people.15:24
mlavalleThat patchset is good to merge. I got +1's from irenab and moshele, who are the SR-IOV czar's15:24
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carl_baldwinHenryG: You're around, would you mind kicking it in?  It isn't too bad to review and has all the right +1s.15:25
mlavallewith that patchset, we have a uniform interface in all the mechanism driver in ML2 that we can leverage for the host segments mapping15:25
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Great work!15:25
mlavallethat's all I have this week15:26
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: Thanks!15:26
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carl_baldwin#topic Create / delete segment in ML215:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Create / delete segment in ML2 (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:26
xiaohhuicarl, I see you set workflow -1 to this patch15:27
carl_baldwinxiaohhui: hi15:27
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xiaohhuiI haven't get too much to this patch since I get back from summit15:27
xiaohhuiBut I think the next step is to implement segment as extension in ml2, right?15:28
carl_baldwinxiaohhui: I think you had a discussion point in the etherpad.15:28
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carl_baldwinxiaohhui: That was it.15:28
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xiaohhuiYeap, I added the discussion point just before the meeting15:29
carl_baldwinxiaohhui: We're going to have to integrate the service plugin somehow with ML2.15:29
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carl_baldwinHonestly, I'm not sure yet how that will look.15:29
xiaohhuiI don't have a clear picture for it too.15:30
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carl_baldwinI was also thinking that we might want to consult rkukura and maybe the ml2 subteam on this.15:30
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carl_baldwinI'm wondering if we should put this on their meeting agenda.15:31
carl_baldwin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ML215:31
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carl_baldwinThey have a meeting tomorrow at 1600UTC.  That is getting pretty late for you.15:32
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carl_baldwinMaybe I can attend and present the problem and you can read the logs.15:32
xiaohhui12:00AM for me, I guess. That is great, thanks15:32
carl_baldwinxiaohhui: Okay, I will plan to do that.15:33
xiaohhuiAnd for the discussion point, In which cases, we should allow/forbid deleting network's segment?15:33
carl_baldwin#action carl_baldwin will add create / delete segments to ml2 agenda and attend meeting.15:33
carl_baldwinxiaohhui: This is something I would like to ask the ML2 team.15:33
* mlavalle will also attend the ML2 meeting. I want to follow up this issue15:33
carl_baldwinxiaohhui: Just checking the meeting logs on your Thursday.15:34
xiaohhuiOK, thanks15:34
carl_baldwinHopefully, we'll be able to get some good feedback from them.15:34
carl_baldwinxiaohhui: anything else?15:34
xiaohhuinothing else15:35
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carl_baldwinxiaohhui: Thanks15:35
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carl_baldwin#topic Segment aware DHCP15:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Segment aware DHCP (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:35
carl_baldwinblogan: hi15:35
bloganoh hello15:36
carl_baldwinI did start reading your patch.  I keep getting distracted.15:36
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bloganlol i know how that goes15:36
bloganwell ill be pushing up a new patch today, so it may be worth just waiting until i do that15:36
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carl_baldwinblogan: ack15:36
blogani'll actually be able to devote the rest of the day to this15:36
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bloganwell that and reviews15:37
bloganbut ill update the etherpad as well15:37
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bloganwould like to get your 2nd patch merged though so i can base my patch off of mlavalle's segment host mapping patch15:37
carl_baldwinblogan: Me too.  :)15:37
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carl_baldwinLet's get that one merged and then we'll all pile up on mlavalle15:38
bloganbut thats pretty much my update15:38
carl_baldwin... I mean his patch.  lol15:38
blogani prefer the first option15:38
bloganpile on insults i mean15:38
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* carl_baldwin thinks blogan and mlavalle have some history there15:39
alekseyrubanHi everybody. I have an issue with encryption in Cinder/Nova. When I create an instance on an encrypted volume, Nova replace a link at /dev/disk/by-path and after I remove that instance I get broken link and not able to create volume any more. Help please. How to bypass this issue?15:40
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bloganalekseyruban: wrong channel i think15:40
mlavallewe certainly do :-)15:40
carl_baldwinblogan: thanks!15:40
carl_baldwin#topic Client15:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Client (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:40
carl_baldwinrtheis: anything update?15:40
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carl_baldwinI just added a client section to the etherpad15:41
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rtheissummit session result for OSC transition is in and we continue with CLI in OSC repo15:41
rtheisI plan to test out the list and show options and may be able to remove WIP soon15:42
carl_baldwinrtheis: cool15:42
rtheisI can update the etherpad with details15:42
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carl_baldwinrtheis: great15:43
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rtheisnothing else from me15:44
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carl_baldwinrtheis: Thanks.15:44
carl_baldwin#topic OVN and routed networks15:44
*** openstack changes topic to "OVN and routed networks (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)"15:44
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xiaohhuithe work in OVN has stopped, because the ml2 implementation is not clear now15:45
rtheisAlso networking-ovn itself is in transition from core plugin to ML2 mech driver15:45
xiaohhuiyeah, that is another dependency15:46
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xiaohhuithanks rtheis to bring it out15:46
carl_baldwinSo, the switch to ML2 is the official plan now?15:46
rtheisHere is the OVN patch set https://review.openstack.org/#/c/312705/15:46
carl_baldwinI had heard about that switch at the summit but it was not final.15:46
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rtheiscarl_baldwin: baring any critical issues, I think the networking-ovn team would say it is official15:47
rtheisbut we are in early stages of switch15:47
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carl_baldwinrtheis: Good to know.15:47
carl_baldwinrtheis: And you're taking on the work to switch?15:48
rtheisI am15:48
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rtheisjckasper is working on it too15:48
mlavallewe are in good hands :-)15:48
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carl_baldwinGreat!  That should make it easier to integrate with routed networks.15:50
carl_baldwinAlthough, being agentless, we'll still have to come up with host / segment mappings in a new way.15:50
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xiaohhuiThere is a patch in OVN to get host / segment mappings15:51
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mlavallexiaohhui: do you have the url handy?15:51
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carl_baldwinI've just added it to the etherpad.15:53
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xiaohhuiSee it15:53
carl_baldwin#topic Deliverables.15:53
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carl_baldwinLet's talk about Newton-1.  What can we deliver?15:54
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carl_baldwinI'll commit to the IPAM work which is pretty close as long as host / segment mapping is in.15:54
mlavallelet's discuss further after you take a look at segemtns host mapping, b ut I think we can deliver that15:55
blogani'm pretty sure I can get the dhcp agent work done, but I'm not sure if reviews will push it over the deadline15:55
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bloganafter i push up this new patch, i think i'll get a good feeling on it's chances of making it for N-115:55
carl_baldwinblogan: reviews are hard to predict.15:56
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carl_baldwinI'll also commit to having a Nova spec for deferred IP allocation, unaddressed ports respun.  I'm not sure how much more I can confidently commit to there.15:56
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mlavalleI'll push for that during the scheduler meetings15:57
bloganindeed, but i'm more worried about whether i've totally gone in the wrong direction or if i'm on the right path15:57
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Do you think we can have the scheduling spec merged in Nova and work started by N-1?15:57
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carl_baldwinblogan: I'll review today and hopefully we can get some clarity.15:57
mlavalleyeah, mriedem wants to have it merged rioght after generic resource pools15:57
blogancarl_baldwin: sounds good15:58
carl_baldwinmlavalle: great.15:58
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blogancarl_baldwin: one question, how is it planned to tie ports to segments? segment_id on the port?15:58
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bloganwe can take it offline too15:58
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carl_baldwinblogan: That is a good question.15:59
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bloganwe've hit time :)16:00
carl_baldwinFor now, the plan is to expose segment on the fixed ips.  I've done some thinking about adding segment_id to a port but that gets confusing with hierarchical port binding which can bind multiple segments.16:00
carl_baldwinblogan: Thanks.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 10 16:00:15 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-05-10-15.01.html16:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-05-10-15.01.txt16:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-05-10-15.01.log.html16:00
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johnthetubaguymlavalle: carl_baldwin: just noted your ping, we can take that in channel16:00
sridhar_ram#startmeeting tacker16:00
openstackMeeting started Tue May 10 16:00:36 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
mlavallejohnthetubaguy: thanks!16:00
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carl_baldwinWe can discuss in the Neutron room if needed.16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tacker'16:00
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sridhar_ram#topic Roll Call16:01
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sridhar_ramwho is here for tacker meeting ?16:01
tung_doanHi all, I am Tung Doan. I am a member of Korea-OpenNetworking Project supported by Korea IT Minster project Fund. It is nice to work with all of you!16:01
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s3wongtung_doan: welcome!16:01
sridhar_ramhowdy all !16:01
tung_doanhope you guys recognize me!16:01
brucetI do16:01
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: welcome, welcome ... ! glad to hear from you..16:02
brucetI need tofinish my review for you16:02
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s3wongtung_doan: sure, saw your Ceilometer -> alarm spec on gerrit16:02
sridhar_ramtung_doan: thanks for joining at this late hr in your side..16:02
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: appreciate it..16:02
sridhar_ramlets get started..16:02
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sridhar_ram#topic Annoucements16:02
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tung_doans3wong: I alread saw it16:02
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sridhar_ram#info  Newton Tacker Design Summit Recap16:03
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sridhar_ram#link  http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/094401.html16:03
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sridhar_ram#info Official Newton schedule #link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html16:03
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sridhar_ramAgenda for today's meeting ..16:04
sridhar_ram#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_May_10.2C_201616:04
sridhar_ram#topic Newton Working Plan16:04
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sridhar_ramI'd like to take few mins to communicate the expectation for the Newton cycle and hear community feedback...16:05
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sridhar_ramFirst, thanks for all those who took time to attend the Tacker design summit...16:05
sridhar_ramit went really well, IMO (!).. lots of lively discussions16:05
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sridhar_ramWe went into big-tent in Mitaka..16:07
sridhar_ram.. but we got to scramble a lot to make the release deadline..16:07
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sridhar_ramso my expectation is to take to the contribution load more towards the "front end" of the dev cycle...16:07
sridhar_ramthis means we need to get the specs going ASAP..16:08
sridhar_ram.. and land most features before Milestone-316:08
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sridhar_ramWith this in mind I'd like to propose an intermediate Newton release ..16:08
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sridhar_ram.. coinciding with Milestone 2 - July 14, 201616:09
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sridhar_ram#link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html#newton-2-milestone16:09
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sridhar_ram.. and a final Newton release after milestone-316:10
sridhar_ramwhat do you think ?16:10
twm2016Aug 29-02 is the newton milestone-316:10
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sridhar_rambrucet_: Sept 26, 201616:10
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sridhar_ramIn summary, first midpoint newton release by July 14th, second / final newton release by Sept 26th16:11
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sripriyasridhar_ram: any specific specs/features that is scoped for mid-release?16:11
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sridhar_ramsripriya: I'm looking for the community to orient themselves towards one of these two releases...16:12
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sripriyasridhar_ram: ok16:12
sridhar_ramOfcourse, I'd like to avoid everyone choosing Sept 26th ;-)16:12
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sridhar_ramtrozet: are you here ?16:13
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sridhar_ramwe need to spread big features across these two milestones..16:13
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sridhar_ramI'm looking towards VNF FFG and Alaram based auto-scaling for midpoint release16:14
brucet_Where does refactoring come in?16:14
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sridhar_ramNSD, refactoring, CSAR, etc would be in the final release16:14
twm2016I'd like to help with some of the specs if I can, I'm new to tacker so it will take some time but I think I can at least do some of the dirty work. So maybe I can work on some of the refactoring spec.16:15
brucet_Bobh said Tosca / Heattranslator already has basic code for autoscaling16:15
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tung_doansridhar_ram: Thank for your interest :)16:15
brucet_I am planning on looking into this16:15
sripriyatwm2016: i'm looking into refactoring items, and i could work with you for few of the tasks16:16
sridhar_ramtwm2016: awesome.. the next set of tasks is to break down the different work items in the refactoring bucket.. please co-ordinate w/ sripriya16:16
sripriyatwm2016: thanks for your interest16:16
vishnoianilsridhar_ram, it's good if we can target VNFFG for the July, because that's when ODL move toward functionality freeze16:16
sridhar_rambrucet_: tung_doan: KanagarajM: same would hold for the Tacker auto-scaling..16:17
janki91I would like to contribute in VNFFG16:17
sridhar_ramI didn't want to use the term "sub-team".. but that's what it would be..16:17
tung_doansridhar_ram: Ok. I will try16:17
trozetsridhar_ram: yeah16:17
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janki91I am aware of ODL concepts/usage too16:17
sridhar_rambunch of interested folks pitching in and landing a feature..16:17
brucet_I assume current blueprint for ceilometer alarm monitoring driver is different than autoscaling16:18
sridhar_ramvishnoianil: great.. that will be perfect.. it the stars can be lined up :)16:18
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vishnoianilsridhar_ram, yeah, they are all supposed to line up, so lets give it a best shot :)16:19
sridhar_rambrucet_: we will go more into VNF auto-scaling in few mins..16:19
brucet_Ceilometer usage in autoscaling will be in Heat template16:19
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vishnoianiljanki91, if you would like to contribute toward ODL side or networking-odl, feel free to reach out to me16:19
sridhar_ramAny questions on the way we are going to approach Newton release ?16:19
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vishnoianiljanki91, and if you are looking toward contributing to VNFFG/ tacker plugin/driver, reach out to tim/sridhar16:20
janki91vishnoianil: sure, I will definitely reach out. Infact we have talked in one of the ODL meetups before16:20
sridhar_ramNext, in the Newton way of things...16:20
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sridhar_ramI'm pushing a patchset to tacker-specs to explicitly call out documentation for our features...16:20
sridhar_ram#link https://review.openstack.org/31441116:21
sridhar_ramFirst, I'd like to thank vishwanathj and sripriya for pushing the user docs for EPA and MultiSite16:21
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sridhar_ramhowever, going forward it doesn't make sense to accept a feature without a write up / doc describing how the operator community can use it16:22
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sridhar_ramso, going forward a devref in doc/source/devref/feature is mandatory ...16:22
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sridhar_ram.. it needs to be treated like code..16:22
sridhar_ramany quick thoughts ?16:23
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sridhar_rammake sense ?16:23
sridhar_ramperhaps, I'm moonlighting ? ;-)16:23
santoshk+1 from user side...16:23
trozetsounds good16:23
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sridhar_ramalright, we can discuss if you've any concern in the above gerrit review16:24
sridhar_rammoving on...16:24
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sripriyasridhar_ram: i'm assuming we can still post a WIP for features?16:24
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sripriyasridhar_ram: even if it means all mandatory stuff is not included16:24
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sridhar_ramsripriya: absolutely, we can always break your feature into multiple patchsets..16:25
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sripriyasridhar_ram: ok16:25
sridhar_ramthe recommendation is to push it as part of your primary patchset...16:25
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sridhar_rampart of it, it will force you to code in a way that is appropriate in the usage side..16:26
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sridhar_ram#topic VNF FFG - Descriptor Template16:26
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sridhar_ram#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/292196/6/specs/newton/tacker-vnffg.rst,unified16:27
sridhar_ramI'd like to land this spec at the earliest ...16:27
sridhar_ram.. we will soon go into a "last call" mode soon16:27
sridhar_ramLot of folks signed up to review.. don't see all of them in the review16:28
trozetsripriya: can you please respond to my comments?16:28
vishwanathji signed up and will review starting today16:29
sripriyatrozet: will respond ASAP16:29
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sridhar_ramtrozet: few specific question on the template shown in L160 - L19816:29
trozetsripriya: thanks16:29
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sridhar_ramtrozet: how are you planning to get the neutron port ID corresponding to a particular CP ?16:30
sridhar_ramtrozet: I'm assuming you would need that to invoke neutron-sfc api16:30
trozetsridhar_ram: well just regular neutron API, but yeah16:30
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trozetsridhar_ram: i could also ask heat I guess for the port ID16:31
sridhar_ramtrozet: but looking at "--vnf-mapping VNF1:vnf1-test,VNF3:vnf3-test'16:31
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sridhar_ramtrozet: here is the constraint.. we can't have vnffg plugin directly calling into heat APIs16:32
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sridhar_ramtrozet: we need to maintain the layer of separation between vnffg and vnfm components..16:32
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trozetsridhar_ram: maybe VNFM should store the port ids for its instances in it's db?16:32
sridhar_ramtrozet: at the least, it needs to using well define vnfm call / api16:32
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sridhar_ramtrozet: I thinking along the same lines, we need to enhance GET /vnf call to have more "detailed" response16:33
vishnoianiltrozet, i like the idea of storing the port id for VNFM16:33
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vishnoianilprobably a orchestrator specific metadata for VNF16:34
sridhar_ramtrozet: vishnoianil: I'm not if we need to store in vnfm db.. but offer an vnfm instrospection API to get those details16:34
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s3wongsorry, guys. Need to get going (driving)16:34
sridhar_rams3wong: np !16:34
vishwanathjs3wong drive safe16:34
s3wongtalk to you guys next week. Will check the log, as VNFFG stuff is (obviously) relevant to me16:34
sridhar_rams3wong: yes, need your inputs16:35
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trozetsridhar_ram: how i do it in my code now is you always name the neutron port with the same ID as the tacker id16:35
trozetsridhar_ram: so i can just go query neutron to find the port that way16:35
trozetsridhar_ram: obviously its hack, so it would be better if that data is in the VNFM and i can just query VNFM for it16:35
sridhar_ramtrozet: no, that would be bad w.r.t layering..16:35
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vishnoianilsridhar_ram, i think API should also work, but just wondering why we don't want to store it in db? it's because of duplication of data? or maintenance  of it ?16:36
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sridhar_ramvishnoianil: duplication for most part, it is store in heat .. we can get it whenever we want.. plus..16:36
trozetsridhar_ram: the heat stack knows the ID of the port it created, just add the api VNFM to query heat then16:36
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sridhar_ramvishnoianil: .. port id might change at anytime due to respawn / selfhealing, etc...16:37
sridhar_ramtrozet: exactly...16:37
vishnoianilsridhar_ram, yeah, that's what i am guessing16:37
sripriyaprobably with a vnf-show --details16:37
vishnoianiltrozet, sridhar_ram what's the cost of this API call?16:37
sridhar_ramtrozet: .. however, we can make it bit generic .. that is applicable for anyone looking for "detailed" vim infra level details about different VNF node_type instancesx16:38
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sridhar_ramvishnoianil: it would be heat api dip16:38
trozetsridhar_ram: sure16:39
vishnoianilsridhar_ram, okay16:39
sridhar_ramtrozet: other things to keep in mind is cross-feature interaction of VNFFG w/ other features like multisite and auto-scaling..16:39
trozetsridhar_ram: so does that need it's own spec as well ? :)16:40
sridhar_ramtrozet: for e.g. of a VDU gets auto scale out / scale in.. the SFC chain needs to be altereed16:40
sridhar_ramtrozet: I would think so... :)16:40
trozetsridhar_ram: not VDU necessarily...16:40
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trozetsridhar_ram: the external port to the VNF may remain the same, in which case SFC wouldn't care what is happening with VDUs16:40
trozetthats my understanding anyway...16:41
sridhar_ramtrozet: in fact, I don't think the first version of VNFFG should support these things.. like multisite and auto-scaling.. but it needs to factor them in its design16:41
sridhar_ramtung_doan: I know you've some thoughts captured in your spec on SFC and auto-scaling...16:41
sridhar_ramplease review trozet's spec with that in mind and provide your comments16:42
tung_doansridhar_ram: yeah,, right16:42
sridhar_ramtime to move on to the next topic..16:42
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tung_doansridhar_ram: OK. thanks16:42
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vishnoianilsridhar_ram, multisite is tempting but i think ODL is not yet there, so that won't be able to support it, no sure about openvswitch driver16:43
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sridhar_ramagain, please review vnffg spec .. specifically with user / operator in mind.. imagine you are the one writing the devref for this feature ?16:43
sridhar_ramvishnoianil: agree, it is a huge topic by itself..16:43
vishnoianilsridhar_ram, yup16:44
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sridhar_ramI'm just trying to make sure we don't pick some design choices in the initial version that will make it difficult to move into those areas for VNFFG16:44
vishnoianilsridhar_ram, make sense16:45
sridhar_ramI know we are in good hands ...16:45
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* trozet looks behind him16:45
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sridhar_ram#topic Alarm based VDU Scaling - Scope, What it is and What it isn't16:45
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bobhsridhar_ram: hello, sorry I'm late16:46
sridhar_rambobh: howdy !16:46
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: as you might have realized.. alarm based monitoring and scalign is a huge topic by itself..16:46
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: first order of business is to clearly scope this initial effort...16:47
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sridhar_rambrucet_: are you in the channel ?16:47
tung_doansridhar_ram: agree16:47
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: can you describe what you had in mind w.r.t scope of this work ?16:47
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sridhar_rambrucet: ^^16:48
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brucetgot lost16:48
tung_doansridhar_ram: yah.. right. my spec is focus on 3 points16:48
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tung_doansridhar_ram: 1- VDU scaling, 2- High availability for SFC and 3- multi-site16:48
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brucetThis is ceilometer spec?16:49
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tung_doanbrucet: Hi brucet, I used Ceilometer to trigger alarms16:49
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sridhar_rambrucet: I'd like to converge on one spec... https://review.openstack.org/#/c/306562/16:50
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tung_doanbrucet: let me know your opinion :)16:50
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: Obviously I'd suggest to keep the deliverable scope the 1 - VDU Scaling that factors in the design going into areas like 2- High availability for SFC and 3- multi-site16:51
tung_doansridhar_ram: agree16:51
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tung_doansridhar_ram: That is my plan16:52
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: brucet: KanagarajM has captured some notes on how to leverage Heat + Ceilometer for this .. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-scaling16:52
sridhar_ramtung_doan: great...16:52
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brucetI added notes to his spec on what we basically agreed to16:52
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: there are few specific areas related to tacker on scale ..16:52
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: .. for e.g. mgmt-driver marked for that VDU might need to be called16:53
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brucetAutoscaling can be driven off a couple attributes in Tosca template16:53
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tung_doansridhar_ram: sound good. I will consider...16:53
sridhar_ramtung_doan: brucet: also user-data to be injected into the scale out VM..16:54
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brucetuser-data for what??16:54
sridhar_rambrucet: for the scale up VM16:54
brucetThe ceilometer monitoring driver can be used to trigger "manual" scaling events.16:55
sridhar_rambrucet: I meant, for the new VM spawn due to a scale-out trigger16:55
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brucetBut if first goal is autoscaling, that can be done totally through Tosca / Heat translator16:55
sridhar_rambrucet: ah, manual scale out / in is another scope question...16:55
brucetAutoscale will be easier16:56
sridhar_ramtung_doan: we have requirements to support manual scaling as well..16:56
tung_doansridhar_ram: OK16:56
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brucetPlease see discussion in Kanjaram spec16:56
bobhsridhar_ram: once we have auto-scaling we get manual scaling almost-for-free16:56
sridhar_rambrucet: link please16:56
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brucetBoth can be done with one featrure16:56
sridhar_rambobh: agree...16:57
brucetDon;t have it16:57
tung_doanagree with bobh16:57
sridhar_rambrucet: I'd let you, tung_doan and KanagarajM to see if you've bandwidth to do auto-scale + manual-scale in one spec...16:57
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brucetThat's easy16:57
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brucetI bit more implementation for manual scaling since I assume that should be done from monitoring driver interface16:58
sridhar_ramI'm also looking for this group to give me guidance when they would land16:58
* sridhar_ram almost out of time...16:58
brucetBobh will you work on this as well?16:58
bobhbrucet: sure16:58
sridhar_ramFolks - we need to wind down for today..16:58
brucetOK. I'll need your help for Tosca / Heat changes16:59
sridhar_ramtung_doan: thanks for joining us...16:59
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tung_doanThank you guys16:59
sridhar_ramlets continue the discussion in the gerrit...16:59
sridhar_ram#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30656216:59
tung_doansridhar_ram: sure!16:59
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sridhar_ram#topic Open Discussion16:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:59
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sridhar_ramthanks everyone... lets get busy w/ Newtom..17:00
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sridhar_ramI'm excited with our pipeline..17:00
sridhar_rambye all17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 10 17:00:30 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-05-10-16.00.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-05-10-16.00.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-05-10-16.00.log.html17:00
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* lbragstad hops in early17:57
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bknudsonlbragstad gets the worm.18:00
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lbragstadbknudson I love worms18:01
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stevemar#startmeeting keystone18:01
openstackMeeting started Tue May 10 18:01:29 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:01
stevemarping for keystone ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, MaxPC, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tjcocozz, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek18:01
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henrynashoh boy, oh boy, oh boy18:01
ayoungKeystoners do keystone things!18:02
stevemarhowdy y'all!18:02
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* topol I'm 98% recovered from martinellifluenza18:02
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stevemarit's a toughie eh topol18:02
dolphmtopol: you can never be 100% recovered from it18:02
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stevemaragenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Main_Agenda18:02
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stevemar#topic newton release deadlines18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "newton release deadlines (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
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stevemari sent this out to the mailing list already, so i'll link it here18:03
stevemar#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/093838.html18:03
* morgan is here18:03
stevemarI'll also be updating releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html18:03
stevemarfail: http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html18:04
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stevemarin general, these are the deadlines:18:04
stevemarMay 30-03 -> R-18 -> Spec proposal freeze18:04
stevemarJul 04-06 -> R-13 -> Spec freeze18:04
stevemarJul 11-15 -> R-12 -> Feature proposal freeze18:04
stevemarAug 29-02 -> R-5 -> Feature Freeze18:04
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* topol are the midcycle dates/location 100% confirmed?18:04
morgantopol: the dates are confirmed.18:04
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* stevemar looks at morgan18:04
stevemarwhat are the dates?18:05
morgantopol: it will be in the bay area... but the exact venue will be determined today18:05
henrynashand they are….in calendar dates, not R-xx dates18:05
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stevemarhenrynash: what is they?18:05
henrynashteh dates, that is18:05
topolahhh Cant wait to goto to Scoma's restaurant18:06
stevemarThe R-xx dates are alongside the calendar dates18:06
morganits R-11, wed, thurs, friday18:06
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morgani *think* that is 20, 21, 22 of July18:06
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bknudsonwhich time zone?18:06
morgani can;t load the newton schedule/calendar atm18:06
henrynashmorgan: thx, that’s what I needed18:06
stevemarbknudson: :)18:06
morganR-11 Jul 18-2218:07
stevemarmorgan: thank you sir18:07
morganand it will be wed, thurs, friday of that week18:07
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morganwe will either be in San Jose, or in San Francisco18:07
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ayoungHappy Birthday to me!18:07
morgani asked for the SF office space18:07
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morganbecause i've heard from cburgess that those offices are amazing18:07
henrynashayoung: today…or at the midcycle?18:07
ayounghenrynash, mid cycle18:08
ayoung18 July I officially turn middle aged18:08
henrynashayoung: cake, me things18:08
stevemarayoung: we'll need to get you a cake18:08
morganbut we will go with whichever cisco is willing to offer us, neither will be bad.18:08
ayoungCandy is Dandy but18:08
morgan(also Cisco is hosting us, FYI)18:08
stevemarmorgan: free routers for everyone!18:08
cburgessIf only it was free routers for everyone...18:09
morganstevemar: ask cburgess about that, i'm not promising free anythings ;)18:09
dstanekyesss!!!! i'll need at least 48 ports on mine18:09
bknudsonthank you cisco18:09
topolliquor is quicker! What did I win?18:09
stevemarcburgess: :)18:09
topolwill dial up be avail?18:09
dstanekcburgess: is it more?18:09
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henrynashtopol: buying the first round18:09
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cburgessI should get the answer on final location this afternoon. There is a planning meeting for the event.18:09
topolSure.. why pot18:09
morganthanks cburgess !18:09
henrynashtopol: :-)18:10
stevemarmorgan + cburgess thanks for hosting us! :)18:10
morgancburgess: and pass on the gratitude of the keystone team for hosting us.18:10
topol+++ Tahnks morgan and cburgess18:10
stevemaraside from midcycle, is everyone OK with the dates I proposed? lots of run way still18:11
stevemaryou can see how they line up with the release schedule: http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html18:11
lbragstadjust to reiterate - it will be Mon July 18th - Wed July 20th18:11
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stevemarlbragstad: nope, Wed - Fri18:11
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stevemarlbragstad: "14:06 morgan: its R-11, wed, thurs, friday"18:11
lbragstadso Wednesday the 20th - Friday the 22nd18:11
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stevemari wonder if i'll be allowed to add the midcycle dates to the newton schedule.. guess i'll find out18:13
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stevemari'll get http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html updated by eod18:13
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morganstevemar: you should ask ttx :)18:13
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stevemarmorgan: i'll find out when i include it in the patch :)18:14
morganhehe ok18:14
stevemar#topic PTL back up18:14
*** openstack changes topic to "PTL back up (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:14
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stevemarstarting May 25th, i'll be out for 3-4 weeks, i don't think this is a surprise to most18:15
stevemarjamielennox volunteers / i suckered him into it... to back me up18:15
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topolwow exciting times!18:15
morganstevemar: OMG18:15
dstanekayoung: ++18:15
dstanekstevemar: that's coming soon!18:16
stevemarso just a heads up, i'll be transferring over the whip to him :)18:16
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topolI'll go find my men at work album to get ready18:16
ayoungstevemar, any special permissions he's going to need, in order to unstuck things?18:16
stevemarmaybe a pinch of voluntold'ing18:16
morganstevemar: i'll also volunteer to cver things while jamie is asleep18:16
stevemarayoung: see morgan's comment18:16
morganayoung: nope. no special perms except stable branch things and doclph and i can handle that18:16
topolthanks jamielennox and morgan18:16
shalehwe are letting Jamie sleep?18:16
ayoungI figured he still had the launch codes18:17
ayoungKeystone team meeting moving ahead 8 hours.18:17
stevemari expect morgan and dolphm to help jamie when needed18:17
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stevemari haven't asked them, i just assume these things18:17
stevemari don't think the meeting time will move, just jamie will have to wake up early18:18
* morgan hasn't needed to fill in for stevemar much cause stevemar is mostly up late pacific time as well.18:18
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stevemarthat's how i roll. in other timezones.18:18
stevemarokie, next topic18:19
stevemarany other q's?18:19
topoljust wait till every two hours becomes a timezone for you :-)18:19
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shalehtopol: ++18:19
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stevemar#topic ldap and py318:19
*** openstack changes topic to "ldap and py3 (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:19
stevemarat the summit, i asked why we don't just use pyldap instead of python-ldap (and not bother with ldap3)18:20
stevemarthe short answer was: we need ldappool too18:20
stevemari finally looked into it, the whole lib is only a few hundred lines18:20
morgando we?18:20
ayoungstevemar, any reason to not do both?18:20
stevemarayoung: no18:20
morganbecause ldapool was *mostly* an eventlet solution18:20
morganwe can hold onto normal connections etc now.18:21
ayoungconsidering the mess that is the ldap code base, we would like to have the ldap3 style code cleanup18:21
stevemaranyway, crinkle helped me out here, but we got ldap tests passing py3 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/311827/18:21
morganlike one would with traditional python (multiprocess)18:21
ayoungalthough, to be fair, the ldap code itself could be cleaned up with out that18:21
stevemarthe kicker is, we had to bring the ldappool code in-tree18:21
roxanagheayoung, ++ for ldap3 :)18:22
morganeh, not the worst thing18:22
ayoungcan we drop ldappool?18:22
morganldapool has pretty much be left dead.18:22
stevemarsince ldappool hasn't accepted any PR in years18:22
morganand i'm ok with carrying it locally.18:22
morganif we need it18:22
stevemarayoung: it has benefits18:22
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ayounginstead of bringing it in to the tree, just cut out using it?18:22
bknudsonwhere's the unit tests for ldappool?18:22
morganin fact, i'll even sign up to help maintain it if we need it18:22
stevemarayoung: i remember mfisch saying it netted him a nice gain18:22
stevemarbknudson: i dind't pull those in tree yet18:22
stevemarbknudson: this was just a poc18:22
morganalso nice work stevemar and crinkle18:23
stevemari'm not even sure if we can legally do this.... so i asked here: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/legal-discuss/2016-May/000404.html18:23
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morganstevemar: what is the original license of ldappool? /me goes and looks18:23
bknudsonself.bacend = backend18:23
bknudsonthey misspelled baconed.18:23
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stevemarbknudson: lol18:23
stevemarmmm bacon18:24
morganstevemar: this can't be included like this in-tree iirc18:24
morganstevemar: this is MPL18:24
morgannot APL18:24
morganwe can't do this like this18:24
morganwe can fork/fix it18:24
dstanekwhy do we need ldappool?18:24
bknudsonso somehow we'd need to get the author to agree to relicense.18:24
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morganbknudson: nah, fork/fix and publish it again if we need.18:25
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morganor we rewrite the parts we need.18:25
stevemardstanek: it nets real gains: http://www.mattfischer.com/blog/?tag=ldap18:25
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morganstevemar: lets take this convo offline.18:25
morgani think i have some things to contribute to help on this front one way or another.18:25
bknudsonwe don't need ldappool if we switch to ldap318:26
dstanekstevemar: morgan: yes, i'd like to figure what we actually need here instead of carrying dead weight18:26
morgani'll bug you and crinkle later on and we'll figure it out.18:26
stevemarbknudson: why not?18:26
morganand dstanek18:26
bknudsonldap3 has connection pooling built-in.18:26
stevemarbknudson: nice18:26
ayoung"Finally I’m using the eventlet (keystone-all) vs apache2 to run Keystone."18:26
ayounglets drop pool18:26
stevemarit would need a deprecation cycle18:27
stevemaranyway, like morgan said, we can circle back to this topic18:27
morganstevemar, dstanek, crinkle: tossed a -2 on the current review for the MPL/LGPL, but saying this here so it doesn't halt work. we just *cant* import it like that.18:27
ayoungstevemar, nope.  We can drop it for python3 only, no?18:27
morgannot because it shouldn't be included.18:27
morganayoung: that is hard to do.18:27
roxanaghestevemar, so are we decided to use pyldap instead of ldap3?18:28
stevemara big old six.PY3 wrap around everything18:28
stevemarroxanaghe: not yet, just weighing the options18:28
stevemarroxanaghe: we can have both18:28
stevemarusing pyldap would be a nice rip and replace of the existing code18:28
roxanaghestevemar, ok so nobody will shout at me if I continue to put up some patches with ldap3?18:29
stevemarroxanaghe: of course not :)18:29
topolmorgan +++ keep the LGPL out :-)18:29
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morgantopol: i actually don't mind LGPL.18:29
morganbut different convo for a different time18:30
dstanekroxanaghe: nope, if you want to work on it they i say go for it18:30
roxanaghestevemar, pfew :)18:30
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topolmorgan, perhaps over scotch in SFO18:30
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* topol yes I'll buy18:30
stevemartopol: needs to happen before that :P18:30
stevemar#topic Help update the API-ref site18:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Help update the API-ref site (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:30
roxanaghedstanek, stevemar I just want to see how easy the unit tests code would be - replacing that fakeldap server would be a huge advantage for using ldap318:30
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stevemarbknudson: do you know much about this?18:31
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ayoungroxanaghe, ++18:31
bknudsona bit.18:31
stevemarthe API-ref site update-a-mania18:31
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bknudsonthey want to move the API-ref site off wadls and to RST18:31
stevemarapparently the nova team is having a 2 day event for it18:31
bknudsonso sdague developed some sphinx plugins.18:31
bknudsonand there's a tool to convert WADL to RST18:31
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bknudsonso someone needs to run the conversion and post the RST into keystone18:32
stevemar"into keystone"?18:32
bknudsonprobably just look at nova and see where it is.18:32
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bknudsonopenstack/keystone repo18:32
bknudsonor keystone-specs?18:32
stevemarlike this: https://github.com/openstack/nova/tree/master/api-ref/source ?18:32
bknudsonalthough I think the idea is to put it in keystone18:33
stevemarwe already have keystone-specs that has RST18:33
stevemarlooks different enough18:33
ayoungWe intentionally keeps specs separate from Keystone18:33
bknudsonthe problem with keystone-specs is that it doesn't match what the server implements.18:33
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ayoungKeystone is the reference implementation of the identity API, but not the only18:33
bknudsonso for example we merged some specs that changed the API and then they didn't get implemented18:33
bknudsonso the API docs didn't match the server.18:34
stevemari see18:34
dstanekbknudson: yeah, specs are great to find design discussions, but not so much as documentation18:34
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samueldmqstevemar: I volunteer18:34
stevemarsamueldmq: thank you18:34
ayoungthere is a reason this is a human driven effort18:34
samueldmqI was planning to start this work last cycle, but had some other priorities18:34
stevemarsamueldmq: do you have enough to get started?18:34
bknudsonsamueldmq: put your name here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate#API_Reference_Plan18:34
stevemarsamueldmq: you can ping annegentle or sdague i guess18:34
bknudson(remove me)18:34
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samueldmqstevemar: I think so, I ask them if I need more clarity18:35
ayoungthe API spec is designed to be where we explain not just the values, but the intention. You can't automate that18:35
stevemarand yeah, add your name to the wiki18:35
dstaneksamueldmq: there are ML threads about this topic too, if you haven't seen them18:35
ayoungWe'll end up with Javadocs18:35
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bknudsonEnding up with docs like the java std library would be awesome.18:35
* samueldmq nods18:35
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ayoungbknudson, that is not the same thing18:35
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ayoungbknudson, we'll end up with javadocs like most projects have that have one page per attribute with nothing explaining them.18:36
stevemarayoung: i think they are looking for a consistent representation of what "keystone" can do, and what APIs that openstack services support. consistent being key here. We're the only team that has the API in the specs repo18:36
dstanekayoung: i'm assuming you mean the amount of crap you can to put in code comments for tools?18:36
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ayoungdstanek, I mnean the amount of generated text you get from an API that is all boilerplate and no substance18:37
ayoungbring dolphm in to this discussion, I hate arguing as his proxy18:37
henrynashstevemar: ++ the current seperation of API spec is weird, and problematic18:37
ayoungI mean, I agree with him, but he says it much better18:37
stevemarayoung: this looks nice to me: http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-compute-v2.1.html18:37
bknudsonthe result will look exactly like this: http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-identity-v3.html18:38
bknudsonthat's the point of the conversion tool is it looks the same as what we have.18:38
bknudsonexcept it's rst rather than wadls18:38
samueldmqstevemar: ++18:39
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samueldmqapi-guide explain the concepts, like what is role assignment, etc (scheduling for nova, eg)18:39
ayoungSo longas we keep our Current API docs too, and note the difference, it will probably be OK.18:39
samueldmqwhile the api-ref gives a list of APIs and their details18:39
stevemarsamueldmq: thanks for volunteering18:40
bknudsonif we keep the current API spec then we'll have to maintain things in 2 places.18:40
stevemarbknudson: ideally we keep one, i'd still like to see APIs proposed with specs18:41
samueldmqstevemar: np, I like this kind of work :)18:41
stevemarbut maybe that is not a reality18:41
samueldmqit's my pleasure18:41
bknudsonthe reason nova is having a multi-day sprint is because their API docs were so out of sync with the implementation18:41
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henrynashstevemar: we have to strive for one and one only18:41
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stevemarhenrynash: and the api-ref site seems to be winning that battle18:42
henrynashstevemar: agreed18:42
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ayounghenrynash, your next18:43
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:43
stevemar#topic Relaxing project name constraints18:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Relaxing project name constraints (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:43
ayoung#topic Relaxing project name constraint18:43
stevemarhenrynash: ^18:43
stevemar#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/310048/18:43
ayounghenrynash, YAY!18:43
henrynashso this is something we have talked about in the past18:43
bknudsontime to relax18:44
ayounghenrynash, we are only going to do that if the "strict" thing is on?18:44
henrynashnow that we have hierarchies, our “project name must be unique across the whole hiearcy” seem weird18:44
henrynashayoung: yes18:44
stevemari thought the whole "strict" thing was in regards to project ids?18:45
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henrynashbasically I’d like people’s feed back on teh consequences of this….for instance, should we return a project path wherever we have a name today? or only when we really really need to18:45
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henrynashstevemar: no, name18:45
dstanekhenrynash: yeah, that seems to not be inline with the reseller usecase18:45
ayoungAnyone not think that this is the obvious right thing to do?18:45
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henrynashstevemar: no, it’s names18:45
morganhenrynash: i am still against this.18:45
dstanekhenrynash: so it would always be a project path for the name?18:46
gyeeit violates the v3 spec, which states projects within a domain must be unique18:46
morgangyee: exactly18:46
henrynashgyee: yes, we are changing the spec18:46
morganhenrynash: unless we move to microversions, i'm a -2 on this18:46
rodrigodsbut they are18:46
gyeekeystone v4?18:46
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morganit violates api stability18:46
morganor keystone v418:46
anteayaI'm feeling there might be problems with other projects18:46
gyeethat was a fundamental requirement for v318:46
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dstaneki don't understand how users would know what to pass or how we would know if they are passing path or name18:47
amakarovthere are still projects stuck on v2.018:47
henrynashso my request is, read the spec, where I go through al lteh issues you raise, and give feedback18:47
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gyeehenrynash, yes sir, will do18:47
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* morgan has put a comment on the spec18:48
morganand a -2.18:48
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henrynashdstaneK: I agree - one issue (in a multi cloud scenario) - is how do you knwo if a particuar cloud has this (optional) cap abilit enabled18:48
ayoungmorgan, how would microversions help?  Can you walk through that, cuz if it does, I am all for them18:48
morganhowever, i think this is a case where microversion inclusion is the correct path going forward18:48
henrynashmorgan: as long as you describe why (in exact terms), then I can respond18:48
morganhenrynash: i did.18:48
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morganayoung: if we move towards microversions we can lock out duplicated names (i think)18:49
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morganayoung: so we only support specific domains / hierarchies under the new microversion?18:49
gyeethis is one area we cannot fuck up as keystone auth is also part of defcore18:49
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ayoungmorgan, so that is what we were going for with the config option.  Does a microversion mean a version on a subset of the API?18:50
morganayoung: i think*. but lets be fair, we can't break the contract that names are unique without exploring the right path forward.18:50
morganayoung: i'd follow nova's template18:50
morganayoung: for how the microversion works.18:50
ayoungmorgan, can we get the cliff notes version?18:50
ayoungI tried following the mailing list and it was a swarm18:50
ayoungnever got to what they landed on18:50
morganayoung: entire api is microversioned18:50
ayoungso any minor change gets a minor version bump?18:51
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morganbut it is negotiated explicitly in the client18:51
bknudsonmicroversioning is not semver18:51
morganso the client would say "i use ver 22 of the the API"18:51
morganand get ver 22 semantics18:51
bknudsonthe number just keeps going up18:51
morganit is monotonically increasing18:51
bknudsonand they can break whatever they want in a new version18:51
ayoungwhat if....18:51
ayoungok heres a thought18:51
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morganbknudson: not "whatever" but. yes much more flexible18:52
thingeeand there has not been thoughts on when we stop supporting older versions.18:52
ayoungsuppose we say that you create with the short name, but then we tell you the long name18:52
topoldoes that end up creating lots of technical debt.. supporting lots of versions??18:52
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ayoungso if you create with "BAR"  but put it under "BAR" you get projectname="FOO/BAR"18:52
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gyees/technical debt/jobs for america/18:52
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dtroyertopol: yes.  the thought has been to periodically raise the oldest supported version but it has not happened in practice yet18:52
morganayoung: possivle.18:52
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henrynashmorgan: so does ANY chaneg of the API have to be versioned using this method (e.g. we have a config option that , if set, means you can’t use reserved chars in a project name….is that “breaking” the api?)?18:53
morgancburgess: ^ cc (see dtroyer's comment) re convo we had about microversions18:53
ayoungand then the new thing is "short_name" or something that is additive to the API instead of changing the meaning....18:53
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bknudsontrump would say to just default on our technical debt.18:53
morganhenrynash: yep. though the reservation of characters is likely an easier change microversion wise.18:53
stevemarbknudson: lol18:53
ayoungbknudson, we can always print more code18:53
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cburgessmorgan dtroyer makes sense and I suspect will be inevitable18:53
morganhenrynash: if it is breaking the stable contract it needs a way to address such as microversions18:54
morganthis is a proposed break of the stable contract.18:54
topoldtroyer, reminds me how everyday in Austin stevemar ordered greater amounts of BBQ poundage at Coopers18:54
ayoungmorgan, OK, so can we take your -2 as "this must depend on microversions?"18:54
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lbragstadbknudson i think he'd just try and declare bankruptcy for tech debt18:54
morganayoung: yes. it needs to address not breaking the stable contract18:54
morganonce we have a way forward, my -2 is lifted18:54
henrynashmorgan: ok. fair enough!18:54
morganayoung: and i commented as such with the -2 :)18:54
stevemarhenrynash: you've got some spec'ing to do18:55
lbragstad5 minutes left18:55
morganthe stable contract is the *only* reason i'm -2 on this fwiw.18:55
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morgani think it is 100% reasonable.18:55
ayoungthe thing is, this is more liberal than what we have now.  So we would not break existing deployments, but that is not what you are saying, is it18:55
* topol wondering how much code it takes to implement a microversion framework...18:55
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henrynashstevemar: (separate subject) I have one BP that I think doesn’t need a spec: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/domain-config-as-stable18:55
morganayoung: it would change the behavior in a way that is not consistent with our current v3 api18:56
stevemarcool, i'll add it to the pile18:56
morganayoung: that is the concern. more liberal or less, it is still a contract brack18:56
henrynashstevemar: not sure when we look at those18:56
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stevemarhenrynash: definitely doesn't need a spec18:56
ayoungmorgan, so a user needs to be able to query to know which contract is in effect?18:56
dtroyertopol: Nova has started extracting carefully-selected bits into a lib for doing the hard part, the negotiation…18:56
morganayoung: yes. (or the client at least)18:56
bknudsonthe user specifies.18:56
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morganbknudson: ++18:57
morgandtroyer: nice.18:57
morgandtroyer: that would be good for us.18:57
ayoungbknudson, what does tht mean?18:57
henrynashayoung: maybe more than one contarct is avalable, I would think the client gets to chose which one we can work with (maybe none)18:57
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morganbknudson: if the client doe not specify a version, it gets the baseline version18:57
bknudsonayoung: the client always says what version it is.18:57
morgans/ bknudson / ayoung18:57
topoldtroyer Cool Thanks!18:57
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morganbascially it is up to the client to say what it can support, or it gets the most basic interface18:58
ayounghmm...not sure that global unique and non-unique can co-exist in the same API18:58
stevemari think we're just about done here18:58
bknudsonI haven't seen how microversions work with the openstack cli.18:58
morganayoung: we may need to work through some other details (reserved characters? or something else)18:58
stevemarbknudson: shhh... don't mention that, it's a touchy subject18:58
henrynashfine request: on the proejct names, please do review the other aspects of teh spec - even if we may need to microverion this….18:58
morganayoung: but if we solve the api contract break, my -2 goes away.18:58
dtroyerbknudson: we support setting the header, but not much more than that yet18:58
bknudsonor how they implemented it in their client API18:59
morganayoung: and i am generally in favour of the change.18:59
ayoungmorgan, so if the name is always the full path, the names are always unique.18:59
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ayoungSo I think we should focus on a way to to the path naming without an API break?18:59
stevemarwe're at time19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
morganayoung: i do think we need to move toeward microversions anyway19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 10 19:00:05 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-05-10-18.01.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-05-10-18.01.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-05-10-18.01.log.html19:00
morganbut without the break would be best for that19:00
dtroyerayoung: even adding a capability needs to be signalled to the client to know if ut can be used19:00
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fungiinfra people about?19:00
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bknudsonmorgan won't be late for this meeting.19:01
morganbknudson: lol19:01
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fungimordred: around?19:03
fungithough i guess he added his topic on notmyname's behalf19:03
fungiokay, let's get started19:03
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue May 10 19:03:34 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
fungi#topic Announcements19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
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fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/094540.html Newton Summit Infra Sessions Recap19:04
fungi(as promised)19:04
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-03-19.02.html19:04
fungijeblair investigate mail filtering by recipient options for infra-root@o.o inbox19:05
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fungidid you come to any conclusion on that topic?19:05
jeblairfungi: i was not here for that meeting19:05
jeblairthough i do recall discussing it at the summit19:05
pleia2it was carried over from the meeting you were at19:05
jeblairi will start looking at it soon19:05
pleia2(I thought)19:05
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jeblairat any rate, no :)19:06
fungiyeah, this was carried over from an action item at the meeting before the summit. anyway, cool, i'll carry it forward ;)19:06
jeblairi've been... busy traveling19:06
fungi#action jeblair investigate mail filtering by recipient options for infra-root@o.o inbox19:06
fungi#topic Specs approval19:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:06
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fungiwe don't have any new ones yet, though the wip on on task tracking is probably going to show up ready for council vote next week19:07
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fungiit's linked in my recap19:07
clarkbis that the one that thierry proposed?19:07
* AJaeger has one spec up to mark as completed...19:07
fungiAJaeger: what's the link? i'll approve19:08
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
AJaegerthanks, fungi19:09
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fungisince i didn't get around to posting the summit recap until today, let's give this one more week for discussion to conclude before we revisit priorities for the coming cycle19:09
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pabelangerWe're pretty close to closing out 'Use Diskimage Builder in Nodepool'19:09
fungi#topic Golang infra needs for swift (mordred, notmyname)19:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Golang infra needs for swift (mordred, notmyname) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:09
fungii've seen the ml thread!19:10
mordredso notmyname and I were talking a bit19:10
fungithis is exciting stuff19:10
mordredabout what would need to be done from an infra pov to support go in things19:10
mordredand thought it would be a good idea to chat with folks here - cause I probably forgot things19:10
anteayais there any kind of list started with items?19:11
anteayalike an etherpad?19:11
mordredinvestigation and implementation around dealing with mirroring/caching dependenices is the big one I can think of19:11
mordredthere are smaller issues like what to do with docs building (likely a combo of sphinx and godoc)19:11
fungido we have any initial jobs that exercise go compilation/testing?19:11
notmynamefrom my perspective, I'm looking for questions -infra needs answers to and info swift can provide to -infra as this process moves forward19:11
mordredanteaya: not really19:11
anteayamordred: okay19:11
AJaegerI have a question on reproduceability: If golang builds download unversioned tarballs, how can we ensure that everybody can reproduce the build? Do we need to limit what gets included in a build? Mirror it?19:11
mordredbut is probably a good idea19:11
notmynameie stuff I need to be working on putting together19:11
mordredAJaeger: so - golang deps are git repos essentially19:12
mordredwhich means there is no central registry we can mirror19:12
mordredthere is a tool called godep19:12
mordredthat can be used to make a dependency manifest similar to what npm and rust have19:12
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fungiyeah, not being familiar with how go dependencies are ultimately declared, i have to assume they let you specify a git ref or something for reproducibility19:12
mordredand if we used that, we could do a thing similar to our old pypi mirroring scheme to mirror the things we depend on19:13
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mordredthey do19:13
mordredyou can reference shas or tags or whatever19:13
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mordredbut this is completely new territory, so there is only a basic design from the dark corners of my brain, and we all know how that tends to go19:13
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* AJaeger prefers released code instead of random git repos but this might be a way to go...19:13
mordredI think the mailing list also brought up supported versions of go - but to me that seems clear to be "whatever is in xenial"19:14
fungipresumably the discussion of unversioned dependencies was more in regard to a lot of go libs not actually tagging anything, so people using git shas instead a lot of the time?19:14
mordredfungi: yah. that seems to be a non-abnormal practice19:14
mordredanybody have any additional things they can think of that we should point notmyname at?19:14
jeblairmordred: what about build artifacts?19:14
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rockygmight consider inviting monasca folks in for extra info/help on defining this stuff19:14
mordredjeblair: that's an excellent question19:15
mordredso far we're not in the business of publishing built binaries19:15
anteayarockyg: they are welcome to attend any meeting or participate in any mailing list19:15
mordredand source tarballs don't really seem to be a thing in go lnad19:15
fungiopenstack should probably be a "good" upstream and not be one of those who don't tag releases, at least19:15
anteayanoone needs an invitation19:15
mordredso our "releases are tags" might work "well"19:15
clarkbmy biggest concerns are avoiding dep hell19:15
clarkbsince Go is pretty notorious for it19:15
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fungiany worse than node/npm?19:16
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clarkbfungi: much supposedly19:16
jeblairmordred, notmyname: so when swift tests with hummingbird, it will need to build hummingbird first?19:16
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clarkbfungi: you end up doing things like making a new repo for major version changes to libs19:16
clarkbfungi: for example19:16
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mordredclarkb: I think I actually like that better19:16
notmynamejeblair: yes, definitely for functional tests. honestly i don't know how unittests work in a compiled language yet19:16
clarkbfungi: it works great in googles one tree world but falls apart quickly when you have many trees19:16
fungiclarkb: that sounds more like someone avoiding making tags19:17
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clarkbfungi: well its beacuse there is no way in Go to respect "tags"19:17
mordredclarkb: it's certainly better than the hipster-semver world view of "I bumped the major version why are you angry that I broke everything"19:17
clarkbfungi: or wasn't until every recently19:17
clarkbmordred: oh well most Go projects do that19:17
clarkbmordred: the smart ones make a new repo can call it foo219:17
mordrednotmyname: in rust at least, part of running unittests is compiling the project, and then also compiling the unittests against the project19:17
clarkbanyways there is a pretty famous rant out there on how it is impossible to ever reproduce builds of Go at stages in the past19:17
clarkbI should dig it up19:17
mordrednotmyname: so I'd expect similar in go19:17
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fungiinteresting. so anyway we should probably be prepared for the "list" of dependencies to change with some frequency if creating new repos for releases is a common pattern19:18
mordredclarkb: so this is one of the problems godep solves19:18
mordredclarkb: with godep, the godep tool handles the git cloning and stuff19:18
mordredand makes a local "vendor" tree that we would not commit to our git repos19:18
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clarkbmordred: transitively too? AIUI the issues had to do with now we are 5 levels deep and someone never published the exact version of bar lib they needed and now we have to check all 5k commits to bar lib until something works19:19
mordredbut is a reproducable tree as it does respect refs and tags19:19
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mordredclarkb: yes19:19
anteayaone of the things I saw Tim Bell bring up was the ability for operators to use distro packages19:19
clarkbmordred: ok sounds like they have addressed hte major issues then19:19
anteayaso would we be testing using distro packages?19:19
clarkbmordred: I think another issue was anyone can delete that repo from github and now yo ulose19:19
fungiin theory they still can use distro packages of this. distros are packaging projects written in go19:19
mordredanteaya: yah- I think as long as we have the ability to do reproducible builds, then the distros should be able to do that too19:19
clarkbmordred: or delete the tag or rebase and force push changes ot history19:19
anteayamordred: okay thank you19:19
clarkbbut those were less common grumps19:20
mordredperhaps we should make our "source tarballs" include the 'vendored' code19:20
bkeroreproduceable builds are hard if they contain any compiled binaries19:20
mordredin any case ...19:20
fungiwe almost certainly want to take some cues from what the distro pain points with go are so that we can find/follow conventions for avoiding those19:20
bkeroThe only distro who has it as a priority right now is Debian IIRC.19:20
mordredthis is one of the big/hard tooling design issues that needs to be addressed19:20
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clarkbbkero: its also part of doing CI19:20
mordredand we're probably not going to solve it right now19:20
clarkbbkero: we support software for 18 months right now19:20
mordredI think it's more important for us to come up with a list of things that need to be solved before we're comfortable with such a thing19:21
bkeroclarkb: I'm talking byte-for-byte reproduceable. Compilers and system libraries just don't do it yet.19:21
fungiso to get the discussion a little back on track, what are the questions we have specifically for the swift/hummingbird devs?19:21
clarkbbkero: I am talking build release x.y.z 9 months from now19:21
mordredfungi: they have the question from us "what do we need them to help us work on solving"19:21
fungii don't want this to turn into a rathole about go language shortcomings specifically19:21
mordredlike, we know there will be an infra cost that someone is going to need to solve19:21
* krotscheck totally forgot about this.19:21
mordredbut we need to flesh that out so that someone can go work on solving it19:22
clarkbmordred: swift/designate should own the devstack/d-g changes to properly install their thing19:22
jeblairmordred: yeah, i think as a brainstorming session, we've identified the high points; could probably do with writing them up next.19:22
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notmynameclarkb: "d-g"?19:22
clarkbthey should decide on a common dep handling machinery19:22
mordrednotmyname: devstack-gate19:22
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mordrednotmyname: it's the thing that sets things up for devstack19:22
notmynameis devstack a requirement?19:23
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notmynameie for the testing image?19:23
* persia notes that none of the other toolchains (npm, python, C) are currently entirely reproducible, and suggests that such discussion is better done at a toolchain level than an OpenStack level19:23
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mordrednotmyname: we use devstack for integration tests19:23
mordrednotmyname: so, yeah19:23
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mordredanteaya had a good idea earlier ... so: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/golang-infra-issues-to-solve19:23
notmynamemordred: yeah, but there's also the concept of different servers in one gate job (eg rolling upgrade tests)19:23
mordredhow about we collect things19:23
anteayamordred: thank you19:24
mordrednotmyname: yah - multi-node devstack jobs is the usual solution to that currently19:24
notmynamemordred: not that I'm opposed, just figuring that this might be an opportunity for "if we could do it over again, we'd do ..."19:24
fungiswift's functional tests also use devstack-gate for setup, right?19:25
clarkbfungi: yes19:25
notmynameyeah IIRC19:25
clarkbwith a post gate hook19:25
clarkbnotmyname: I would really rather we not reinvent the entire wolrd all at once...19:25
fungiso basically something that adds in the "build hummingbird and run it" step into the current integration and/or functional jobs19:25
clarkbnotmyname: Go is a new thing is a big enough transition19:25
pabelangerclarkb: ++19:25
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clarkbI think my biggest concerns are 1) that designate and swift will decide on two different ways to do things and 2) that infra will get all the work dumped in its lap19:28
clarkbhappy to help, we do have a lot of experience dealing with lang devtest envs, but I don't think qa or infra should have to update devstack for example19:28
notmynamethose "things" are what I want to see a list about, so that we don't do them differently19:28
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fungiwhich unfortunately is a list of mostly unknowns until we encounter them19:29
fungii expect a lot of this will be learned through trial and error19:29
clarkbright, I think the best thing we can say is swift and designate will work together to reach common decisions19:29
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clarkbrather than try and figure it all out upfront19:29
notmynameclarkb: +1000 to that19:29
AJaegeragree with clarkb19:29
fungiwe can't really serve as the arbiter between swift and designate teams. luckily they're great people who will have no trouble cooperating toward a common goal19:30
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fungithanks notmyname!19:30
fungianything else urgent on this topic before i move on?19:30
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notmynamethank you for your help, -infra19:30
notmynameI kinda expect to keep needing it for this :-)19:30
mordrednotmyname: thanks for coming and chatting19:31
notmynamei'll keep up with the etherpad and work there19:31
fungi#topic Publish logs for mirror-update.o.o (pabelanger)19:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Publish logs for mirror-update.o.o (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:31
pabelangerso, we had a request from the release team a few days ago to expose some of our mirror-update logs.19:31
fungianything sensitive in them we should worry about? can we just do teh same trick we're doing for nodepool image builds?19:31
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jeblairi think they are long and boring :)19:32
clarkbthe only sensitive thing I can think of is the kerberos auth creds19:32
pabelangerYa, I think what we do for nodepool.o.o is a good start19:32
fungiit's much more likely what the release team would actually be interested in is status info19:32
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jeblairalso, we could just write them into afs :)19:32
fungigreat point19:33
pabelangerI would be okay with that19:33
clarkbwhich will then be served via the mirror hosts for easy access19:33
fungi(logs or status details. or even both)19:33
clarkbI like that19:33
fungiare there some good afs stats we would want to periodically dump to a file in each volume?19:33
fungido we already have an updated timestamp file?19:34
* mordred approves of writing them to AFS19:34
clarkbI want to say reprepro gives a summary we could write out19:34
jeblairfungi: vos examine will give you updated timestamps for RO and RW volumes19:34
fungithat's probably the one thing they want to know more than anything: "when did this volume last get updated"19:34
clarkbbandersnatch might?19:34
mordredyah - reprepro keeps info in a db19:34
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clarkbso we can write out mirror content infos and volume status infos19:34
jeblair(also, vos examine needs no creds, so anyone can run it anonymously)19:35
pabelangerokay, neat.19:35
fungion the other hand, writing vos examine details out to a file periodically or something does avoid them needing to install a kernel module to find that out19:35
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fungino idea if that's a show-stopper for them19:36
jeblairfungi: no kernel mod needed19:36
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fungiahh, right, just the afs client and krb519:37
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mordreddon't even need krb519:37
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jeblairhere's the output19:37
krotscheckthe npm mirror actually includes a status file that's updated with every run.19:37
morganmordred: kinit!19:37
mordredkrotscheck: woot!19:38
fungiindeed, that's simple19:38
jeblairso you can see the last update time for both the RW and the RO volumes (they are the same, so RW has not changed since the last vos release)19:38
krotscheckBoth the date and the two seq parameters are relevant on that file.19:38
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jeblaircentos has updated since the last vos release: http://paste.openstack.org/show/496613/19:39
fungiokay, so the decision is to start by writing the mirror-update logs into a subdirectory of their respective volumes?19:39
krotscheckWould it make sense to create a single directory with symlinks to the files so that the release team has a single place where they can look?19:40
jeblairfungi: i'd write to a different volume19:40
fungiahh, and then serve it under a different docroot/alias19:40
jeblairprobably just a readwrite volume with no replica19:40
fungioh, right, we serve the parent of the volumes from apache anyway19:40
jeblairkrotscheck: and yeah, could be organized like that19:41
jeblairhave a directory for each mirror type with appropriate acls19:41
* krotscheck could write a pretty UI Dashboard.19:41
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jeblairkrotscheck: with afs that usually means uing "========", but i'm guessing you mean something else :)19:42
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fungisince this is devolving into restructuredtext jokes, we're probably ready for the next topic?19:43
krotscheckI mean, let's be honest here. We're one blog post away from other large orgs using our mirrors internally.19:43
anteayaI am19:43
pabelangersure, I think we have a plan to start19:43
AJaegerkrotscheck: Let's not start to discuss team blogs ;)19:43
jeblairkrotscheck: ++19:43
jeblairpabelanger: ++19:43
fungi#topic Trusty upgrade schedule (fungi)19:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Trusty upgrade schedule (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:43
fungii'm squeezing this in so we don't run out of time, since we punted on it last week without enough people around to decide19:44
fungiwe said r16 was probably the best time to arrange to burn through the trivial upgrades. did anyone else have any opinions?19:44
jeblairwhat's that in the old calendar?19:44
clarkblast time I sort of threw out R-1919:44
pleia2and my recollection was R-19 as well, May 23-2719:45
clarkbR-16 is june 13-1719:45
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fungid'oh, right19:45
fungii had them backwards19:45
fungir19 was the emerging consensus19:45
anteayar-19 is what I remember19:45
pleia2I'll be away in moose land thurs-friday of that week, but happy to help mon-wednesday19:45
anteayaI'm around that week19:46
anteayapleia2: watch out for the meese19:46
pabelangerYa, monday doesn't look good for me, but good rest of week19:46
fungiyeah, i expect this is going to just be dogpiling on the easy ones for some of the week and also trying to plan out the more involved upgrades (which may end up in subsequent separate weeks)19:46
pleia2fungi: nods19:46
nibalizeri am around those dates19:46
fungiso being around for part of that week should still be plenty of opportunity to help knock some out19:46
jeblairi should be around then19:46
* AJaeger will be offline R19 and R2019:46
clarkbI will be semi around, turns out I might actually be buying a house R-2019:46
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anteayaAJaeger: for a well deserved holiday!19:47
fungibetter than buying a moose19:47
anteayaclarkb: congratulations19:47
anteayayeah moose aren't house trained19:47
pleia2fungi: hard to say which is more trouble, really19:47
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fungiokay, any objections to r19 (may 23-27)?19:47
clarkbcan I get a vodka drinking bear?19:47
pleia2fungi: let's do it19:47
fungiask mirantis19:47
* mordred will be on vacation may 23-2719:48
anteayafungi: no objections from me19:48
anteayamordred: yay19:48
mordredbut has no objections19:48
mordredI will attempt to not help19:48
mordredI may be unsuccessful19:48
fungi#agreed Mass server upgrade to Ubuntu 14.04 will ensue the week of May 23-2719:48
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fungiwe can discuss further as the date draws closer19:49
anteayaI'll see if I can book the sprint channel19:49
fungi#topic Tier 3.14159265359 support (pabelanger)19:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Tier 3.14159265359 support (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:49
anteayaso we can work in there19:49
fungithanks anteaya19:49
fungiokay pabelanger, what is this about? do you want us to get you a pager?19:49
pabelangerSo, this is a results of our zuul issue that happen on friday, see http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-infra/%23openstack-infra.2016-05-06.log.html#t2016-05-06T12:27:39 for some history19:49
pabelangerbut TL;DR, I was hoping we could have some sort of out-of-band contact list for infra-root.19:50
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fungii have a lot of opinions on this, but will boil them down to one or two19:50
AJaegerSo, a chance for yolanda and myself to wake up everybody? ;)19:50
pabelangeranteaya: did a great job keeping the openstack-infra channel working, but I was looking to get some additional active from infra on how to proceed with the zuul issue at hand19:50
fungigenerally, when our root admins are available to assist troubleshooting/fixing something (i.e. not sleeping or on vacation) we're in irc keeping an eye on what's happening19:51
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anteayawell after fungi finishes I have some thoughts to share on the topic, and thanks for the acknowledgement pabelanger19:51
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fungiwhen the only root admins around are unfamiliar with the thing that's broken, that's an unpleasant experience but it's how most of us have had to get deeper familiarity with these systems in the past19:52
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AJaegerAnd we have some times where no root admin is around - and have so far accepted that there is an occasional hickup that takes a few hours...19:53
pabelangerRight, for me, I think I was just looking for validation to move forward with the plan at hand (restarting zuul). But, yes that was related to inexperience19:53
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pabelangeranteaya: thoughts?19:53
fungiso while we should be working to improve our important service documentation (always) i don't know that calling someone else to jump on irc is going to force that learning experience19:53
anteayawell my thougts are that you handled the situation really well19:53
clarkbas a data point, email or irc to me is usually just as good if not better way to contact me than phone calls or text messages. I don't tend to let my phone interrupt me and instead poll it like I poll email/irc19:53
anteayaand that it wasn't a crisis19:53
anteayabut I can understand the pressure you felt19:54
anteayaand that no is sometimes the best answer to a situation19:54
fungii treat my phone similarly. i often forget it in another room of the house, sometimes for days19:54
anteayapeople don't like to hear it19:54
anteayabut no can actually save folks time and trouble in the long run19:54
anteayapabelanger: I think you did everything right in the situation19:54
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anteayawe can't expect folks to have experience they don't have19:54
anteayathat is unrealistic19:54
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anteayawe have to operate within the limits which we are comfortable19:55
pabelangerSure, I understand the need to not have contacting outside of IRC.  And happy to leave it at that19:55
pabelangeranteaya: thanks19:55
fungiso anyway, while collaboration with our peers is important, when there is an emergency try to carefully read documentation if it's available and then proceed with caution and remember that we all make mistakes19:55
anteayaand then grow them with the opportunity arrises19:55
anteayapabelanger: welcome19:55
AJaegerpabelanger: and have the courage to slow down and not panic - as you did.19:55
fungii have destroyed my share of our systems over the years. it's probably one of the main ways i've learned about them19:55
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mordredit's also possible we've reached a point where we should revisit the level of service we're offering or striving to offer - and document it19:56
anteayamordred: I think that is a good idea19:56
rockygmordred, ++19:57
anteayaultimately any decison to move forward is up to the person who will have to fix it afterward19:57
anteayaand that is personal and different for everyone19:57
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fungii'm cool with that too, though i think we do a remarkable job of not letting the world burn around us already and documenting that we do that in an ad hoc manner with no off-hours escalation paths is likely to just frighten some people19:57
mordredfungi: it might19:57
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fungibut i'm okay with us writing that down nonetheless19:57
mordredfungi: but it might be better to frighten them in a proactive manner - than in a reactive manner when they panic19:57
anteayaoh I'm not interested in frightening people19:57
* jeblair assumes the escalation path is the same as everything else in tech -- twitter19:58
anteayabut I agree with fungi's statement, as a team we do an awesome job19:58
persiaThat isn't a bad thing: it is done extremely well19:58
mordred"we'll get to it" can sound like we're blowing someone off in the midst of a crisis for them - which is not always what we're doing - but we don't always have the time to explain that in th emoment19:58
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mordredalso agree with fungi19:58
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pabelangerjeblair: ack, that's how I contacted mordred19:58
fungiwe have a few more topics we're not getting to, (gerrit disk utilization, project renaming, vexxhost control plane hosting) so i'll put those first on next week's agenda19:59
anteayathank you19:59
jeblairmy joke isn't funny anymore :(19:59
rockygSetting expectations means that you almost always surpass them.  A good thing.19:59
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fungijeblair: sadly accurate actually19:59
mordredpabelanger: fwiw, I did not see that tweet until well after the situation was over19:59
pabelangermordred: pew19:59
mordredso for the record, you contacted me via IRC :)19:59
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fungiokay, thanks everybody! see you all back in #openstack-infra20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 10 20:00:05 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-10-19.03.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-10-19.03.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-10-19.03.log.html20:00
fungiall yours, ttx20:00
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* fungi wonders if the tc are all still on hiatus20:00
dkushwahamsg michael_bredel hi20:01
ttxwho is here for the TC meeting ?20:01
fungithis place is usually full of o/ noise by now20:01
mtreinishfungi: I feel like I could use another hiatus :)20:01
fungimtreinish: take a hiatus from your hiatus20:01
ttxjohnthetubaguy is excused -- best excuse ever ("got a quintet concert")20:01
mordredyup. he wins20:01
morganmordred: ++20:01
ttxannegentle, dims, dhellmann, flaper87, mtreinish, thingee, russellb: around ?20:02
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ttxoh, we have mtreinish20:02
* edleafe lurks20:02
ttxone more for quorum20:02
ttxyay, anne20:02
ttx#startmeeting tc20:02
openstackMeeting started Tue May 10 20:02:45 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
* rockyg lurking under the bushes20:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:02
morganooh do we have enough?20:02
ttxHi everyone!20:02
mtreinishttx: oh, sry I guess I didn't raise my hand20:02
ttxmorgan: we do20:02
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morganttx: okie20:03
ttxOur agenda for today:20:03
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:03
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ttx#topic Update management expectations for release tags20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Update management expectations for release tags (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/30804520:03
* stevemar lurks in the background20:03
ttxThis is about adding a few warnings about release models, to help people pick the right ones20:03
ttxWe have 7+ votes on this one so I'll approve it now, unless someone wants to discuss those further20:03
mtreinishttx: I was just wondering there are a bunch of projects with tags today that don't meet the new requirements20:04
flaper87wait, I don't want to discuss these further. I'm just saying hi :P20:04
ttxlike ?20:04
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mtreinishit doesn't go through the relmgt but it's tagged as one of the cycles ones20:05
dhellmannthere are 2 ways to fix that20:05
mtreinishyeah, remove the tag or go through relmgt20:05
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dhellmannwe'll do an audit of the other deliverables and talk to their owners20:06
mtreinishI just was saying the tags were previously just a cadence thing and now it's more than that. Is it just tempest in this case20:06
ttxshould that block the tag change ?20:06
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flaper87I don't think it should20:06
mtreinishok, that's what I was wondering20:06
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mtreinishttx: nah20:06
ttxrelease models have always been a catch-up game20:06
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dhellmannI believe I've removed tagging permission for most of these projects already20:07
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ttxtrying to align the model with project reality20:07
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ttxok, so if it's not an objection but just a side question, I propose we approve it and I #action dhellmann to look into the oddities20:07
mordreddhellmann: you're gonna get actioned20:07
flaper87All for actioning dhellmann20:08
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ttx#action dhellmann to look into (or delegate looking into) release model oddities as a result of https://review.openstack.org/30804520:08
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ttxand approved20:08
* dhellmann notes that "delegate" and that ttx is also on the release team20:08
ttxyeah, that was my way of half-actioning me20:09
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ttx#topic Naming for P & Q20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Naming for P & Q (Meeting topic: tc)"20:09
annegentleaction fractions20:09
ttxThose are 4 reviews clarifying the language in the naming rules so that they continue to work in the future20:09
ttx...and narrowing the geographic locations for P and Q20:09
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ttx* Remove sentence about version numbers (https://review.openstack.org/312127)20:09
ttx* Clarify language around summit to name mapping (https://review.openstack.org/312128)20:09
* mordred wrote patches20:10
ttx* Add naming poll info for P release (https://review.openstack.org/310425)20:10
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ttx* Add naming poll info for Q release (https://review.openstack.org/310426)20:10
ttxmordred: want to talk about those ?20:10
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ttxmordred: do you like to talk ?20:10
dhellmannso when we say "the summit" we're talking about the thing we have now, and not the new gathering thing, correct?20:10
mordredso - 312127 is cleanup. it references an old method of numbering things20:10
mordreddhellmann: yes20:10
ttxdhellmann: yes20:10
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mordred312128 is an attempt to capture the actual reality as it is now, but also in such a way that the p and q patches don't get caught into a sea of loosely defined words20:11
ttxdhellmann: basically this is picking option 3, as described in my comment on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/310425/20:11
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mordredbefore we talk about p and q - any concerns/questions/hotdogs on the first two?20:12
ttxthe benefit is that it's a single rule which works for the past and the future20:12
mordredttx: ++20:12
sdagueslight diversion, on the numbering / naming. If the name for the summit and the release are not actually going to quite be the same thing. Have we considered synchronizing the numbers for components. Because which nova, cinder, keystone, barbican are all released together and were potentially tested together is becoming more confusing20:12
ttxwhatever the future holds20:12
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mordredsdague: I'm confused by your confusion20:13
mordredsdague: can you restate that?20:13
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* flaper87 confused by mordred's confusion on sdague's confusion20:13
sdaguemordred: tell me what versions of cinder, nova, keystone, neutron, glance were tested together in "mitaka" cycle20:13
dhellmannISTM that we'll call it the $name PTG and the $name summit, so I'm not sure they would be different20:13
ttxthe name for the release will be the name for the summit happening during its development.20:13
mordredyah. what ttx said20:13
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mordredthis should not change that20:13
dhellmannsdague : http://releases.openstack.org/mitaka/index.html20:14
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sdaguedhellmann: sure, but I bet know one can tell off the top of their head20:14
sdagueanyway, it's a diversion, we can move on20:14
* mordred would just grab the stable/mitaka branch of openstack/openstack ...20:14
ttxsdague: that's not really a new issue introduced by this patch though20:14
dhellmannsdague : probably not. and that will only get worse over time as more projects are added. Does it make sense to add something in Ocata and start numbering it somewhere other than 1?20:14
ttxJune 26, 201520:15
dhellmannyeah, this has been an issue since we changed versions in liberty20:15
sdaguedhellmann: yeh, I was thinking max(version)20:15
* rockyg agrees with sdague and thinks maybe an inventory of stuff released to gether should be in every project?20:15
dhellmannmaybe we should talk about this separately from the naming?20:15
ttxthe releases.o.o website is tracking the version numbers20:15
sdaguebecause, especially log messages in components tend to indicate version numbers which are all unsycned20:15
annegentleI think the releases.openstack does have the inventory20:15
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flaper87Having an inventory is fine, I'm not sure about aligning projects versions20:15
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sdagueanyway, lets table to a future meeting20:16
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sdagueit's a bit orthoginal20:16
dims++ table20:16
cdenteverything keeps going back to if openstack is a unitary thing, or a collection of disparate parts20:16
mordredcdent: it is a unitary thing20:16
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mordredalways has been20:16
mordredand that has not changed20:16
ttxalright let me see how many votes we have now20:16
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mordredit was decided I think 4 or 5 years ago in a vote of what I think was actually teh TC but might have been the PPB20:17
mordredand to my knowledge nothing has changed that20:17
dtroyermordred: except it (individual projects) doesn't seem to act like it a lot of the time…20:17
ttxLooks like we have enough to pass them all now. Objections ?20:17
mordreddtroyer: yes. that is correct20:17
mordredindividual projects like to buck the One Project decision20:17
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mordredbut lacking a decision to the contrary, the existing decision stands and part of our work is working with those projects to remove the disparity20:18
annegentlewho makes sure projects do release notes?20:18
sdaguemaybe we should reopen in open discussion?20:18
annegentle(also can be tabled, heh)20:18
ttxI'll take that as a "go ahead, approve"20:18
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flaper87ttx: go20:18
annegentlelet's name us some releases20:18
ttx#topic Update Magnum Description and Mission20:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Update Magnum Description and Mission (Meeting topic: tc)"20:19
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/31147620:19
ttxThis one is the result of a discussion at the Summit around Magnum's scope20:19
ttxThe commit message summarizes the discussion better than I can20:19
mordredttx: did you approve the P and Q things too? I guess that means I get to go do some work :)20:19
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ttxmordred: yes20:19
ttxThis will result in a new project team being created to focus on the abstraction API side of things20:19
ttxmordred: looks like they took our suggestion for the name afaict20:20
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ttxIMHO the split will really help since those are two different use cases with two different user bases20:20
ttxAnd confusing the two really hurt the messaging around Magnum in the past20:20
dhellmannttx: this *may* result in that -- I don't remember anyone actually volunteering to do that work in the summit session20:20
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thingeeAside from the usage of scaling which I guess is addressed, that was my only thought.20:20
flaper87I believe the split will help clarifying the goal, which was confusing to many (including me)20:20
ttxdhellmann: I've seen launchpad groups being created20:20
dhellmannah, ok20:20
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annegentlesplit good in this case.20:21
dimsflaper87 : indeed20:21
ttxhmm, although the name is already taken20:21
flaper87thingee: I honestly think the use of scaling there is fine. It's really about spreading out COEs.20:21
annegentlettx what was the name?20:21
ttxSince Hongbin (PTL) pushed the most recent patchset I consider he is OK with the current wording20:21
* mordred has named yet another openstack project20:21
ttxannegentle: Higgins, the butler in Magnum20:21
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thingeeflaper87: my thought was whether it's COE's themselves, not magnum scaling.20:22
hongbinConfirm. I am fine with that20:22
ttxthingee: COEs don't autoscale20:22
ttxthey need a lot of help, which Magnum provides20:22
dimsthingee : operators can scale up COE's with COE's cooperation :)20:22
ttxapps deployed on COEs autoscale20:22
ttx(as long as there is enough space on the COE)20:23
dimsttx : y that too20:23
ttxwas still missing a couple of TC members votes last I looked20:23
ttxQuestions ?20:23
ttxLooks like we have 9+votes now20:24
flaper87dims: I like the "with COE's cooperation" part20:24
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* morgan is waiting for the page to load.20:24
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* thingee is on the same wifi - it's no good.20:24
ttxok, approving now20:24
ttx#topic Add golang as an approved language20:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Add golang as an approved language (Meeting topic: tc)"20:25
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/31226720:25
ttxThis one is likely to take a few meetings before we come to a conclusion, especially with the ML thread being in full swing20:25
dimsthe thread is *still* active20:25
mordredmorgan: I read that as "coffees hop"20:25
ttxThe programming language resolution from last year opens the door to supporting new languages in OpenStack official projects20:25
* thingee waits for termie to appear20:25
morganmordred: that too20:25
ttx#link http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20150901-programming-languages.html20:25
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ttxIt explains that we should weigh the technical benefits for OpenStack (using the best tool for the job) against the community costs (community fragmentation, infra overhead...)20:26
ttxThe proposal is that we add Go as a supported language for official OpenStack projects, so that performance-sensitive data-plane pieces of Swift, rewritten in Go, could be merged in mainline code20:26
ttxDesignate has similar needs for a DNS server proxy, and would use Go for that if we added it20:26
ttxBefore this goes in every direction, I'd like to try to structure the discussion20:26
mordredthingee: perhaps the openstack version of godwin's law sohuld be called "Thingee's Law" and should be "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving termie approaches 1"20:26
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ttxFirst discuss the perceived community costs, then the technical benefits for OpenStack, and then weigh one against the other20:27
mugsiettx: well, we were going to propose something simlar if swift hadn't20:27
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flaper87mugsie: I assume we == designate20:27
ttxSo... community costs first20:27
mugsieflaper87: yeah20:27
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ttxAdding any language is a bit costly in community terms, but we should try to estimate and quantify how costly Go is likely to be20:27
ttxFirst cost is community fragmentation, which was raised by bswartz on the ML20:27
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ttx"strongly believe that mixing 2 languages within a project is always the wrong decision, and doubly so if one of those languages is a niche language. The reason is simple: it's hard enough to find programmers who are competent in one language -- finding programmers who know both languages well will be nearly impossible. You'll end up with core reviewers who can't review half of the code and20:28
ttxdevelopers who can only fix bugs in half the code."20:28
thingeemordred: very good - but mostly because he would've wanted us to go this path eventually :)20:28
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* bswartz1 lurks20:28
flaper87ttx: yeah, I pointed that out on the review as well. I admit this bit worries me.20:28
ttxflaper87: bswartz1: that's definitely a valid concern20:28
mordredwe've seen this pain to a degree with python and javascript20:29
ttxI think of all languages we could add Go is not the worse20:29
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mordredit's not just theoretical20:29
* amrith mumbles something inaudible about .NET20:29
ttxsince there is some decent overlap in communities20:29
* edleafe smacks amrith 20:29
* notmyname sees IRC client light up20:29
clarkbmordred: and java20:29
ttx(more than between Python and Java or Python and C)20:29
annegentlehow do we get operators input? packagers?20:29
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morganttx: ++ on go not being the worst20:30
flaper87Eventually, I believe we'll end up with a split community. Not every Go developer is a pthon developer and the other way around.20:30
thingeethere have been some people in thread speaking on it's maturity. seems like most of the pain pointsthere were captured in the last infra meeting20:30
mordredwell, I mean we've seen the issues in active openstack projects where the project is in two languages - python and javascript being the combo that we have currently20:30
mtreinishmordred: yeah, I see that issue in openstack-health (granted it's a big example)20:30
thingeewrt to dependnecy management20:30
ttxFor JavaScript we basically considered that the fragmentation was a necessary evil -- you can't program a client side web interface in Python20:30
mtreinishs/it's/it isn't/20:30
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ttxbut the fragmentation exists20:30
mordredit's not a show-stopper20:30
mordredit's just a thing20:30
mordredand is a real cost20:30
ttxA project like StoryBoard definitely suffered from being coded in Python + Javascript, requires dual expertise to be a core there20:31
dimswe have had projects cope already - "We already had that, for example in Horizon, moving from a mostly Python20:31
dimsoriented community to a mostly JavaScript community." from Matthias20:31
KiallWhile I understand the difficultly for contributers, was this not raised when allowing other languages was first approved? Once more than 1 language is allowed, especially "server side" projects, the fragmentation is inevitable - is this then a separate discussion around allowing dual languages in a single project vs allowing Go (or <insert language here>) into OpenStack?20:31
annegentlettx: our community is more than devs, naturally. So I want to hear more technical info on the downstream effects, can you run multiple sourced services when coded in both Go and Python? or is it one or the other?20:32
dimsshould be upto the project and cores to take the plunge i think20:32
mugsiedims: ++20:32
mordredKiall: it's purely a discussion of the community costs currently20:32
flaper87dims: That's one of the reason I don't contribute to Horizon. I just don't do JS.20:32
ttxKiall: I think if the language is really needed, then this outweighs the cost. It's a trade-off20:32
ttxbut we should just not underestimate the community fragmentation cost20:32
Kiallmordred: Right, but those costs must have been weighed when http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20150901-programming-languages.html was approved, no?20:32
flaper87annegentle: ++ on packagers and ops feedback needed20:32
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annegentledoes it need a separate gate? or is supporting Go a similar sized effort to the javascript efforts?20:32
thingeemordred: my only show-stopper has been support in gate and understanding that. Happy to see the last infra meeting touch on this. Without gate testing, we don't really have much to show.20:32
amrithdims, I disagree. I think the projects and the cores should have an input but the decision should not be delegated down (if that is what you implied)20:32
ttxKiall: no, we decided that we would exmaine each language case-by-case20:32
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mordredKiall: no - that was more about asserting that there was no specific python requirement20:33
dtroyerannegentle: Go doesn't have the co-installability issues that Python does… static-linking effectively makes every binary like a packaged venv20:33
notmynameannegentle: flaper87: from the swift side, we've got that. we've already seen swift+golang deployed together in prod20:33
mordredKiall: and that we'd address specific suggestions as they arose using our best judgement20:33
Kiallttx+mordred: noted.20:33
dimsamrith : here we can choose that golang is a valid option. then projects can choose where to add that to their arsenal20:33
flaper87Everyone, please, let's focus on the community cost for now.20:33
annegentledtroyer I've seen that for clients, okay.20:33
morganif infra has the tools they need and the questions are resolved around it for reproducible installs/builds/testing it is less of a concern to me.20:33
ttxSecond type of community cost is infra / QA / release management support20:33
flaper87notmyname: that's actually great news20:33
devanandaI agree that the fragmentation concern, within a project, is a worthwhile concern. We've seen it within Ironic20:33
morganbut it is a serious concern if we don't have that answered.20:33
mugsieis there a bigger community cost from allow just some projects, or allowing a free for all?20:34
ttxdo we have any idea what we are getting into there ?20:34
mordredmorgan, thingee: we had the beginnings of the discussion with notmyname in the previous infra meeting about infra needs20:34
jeblairdtroyer: it may or may not have similar issues when it comes to distro packaging (coinstallability isn't just about virtualenvs, it's also about dependency management and packaging/distribution)20:34
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amrithdims, that brings me to my concern on this which is how the intended governance model would work. Is what is being discussed here "Go for Swift" or "Go for All"20:34
dhellmannttx: I haven't really started looking at what it would take to release go code using our current systems for releasing other things20:34
ttxmordred, jeblair: any chance you could summarize the early discussion on infra cost ?20:34
morganmordred: ++ i was watching. but seeing that move in a positive direction would be a requirement for me to sign off on this move.20:34
mordredttx: it's very early20:35
dtroyerjeblair: right, but that is now a build-time/package-time issue, not a deployment issue20:35
morganand additions.20:35
mordredso - the main thing is that we've got some design thinking to do20:35
Kiallttx: IMO, not really. We'll not have a reasonable idea until we try it.20:35
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mordredgo has a very different set of assumptions20:35
thingeemugsie: gate testing is a community cost - if you consider free for all20:35
david-lyleHorizon has a lot of issues with fragmentation, and JS is a reasonable knowledge expectation for UI developers, but it also inhibits outside contribution20:35
morganbecause i don't want to see us say "Lang X is GREAT! AND WE USE IT" with out a path on the infra front.20:35
mordredwhich means that we have to learn things about what tooling go has now20:35
mordredand figure out how it fits in with the rest of things20:35
flaper87I certainly don't feel comfortable letting this in until we have a better understanding of what the pla is CI/Infra wise20:35
mordredwe're in the phase right now of collecting reuqirements20:35
mugsieyeap. but less fragemtation is a potential plus (as there might be more people familair with go)20:35
thingeeflaper87: +120:36
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devanandawill there be an expectation that a go-project publish its docs in the same format as python projects?20:36
bswartzIt seems to me that teams which wish to implement parts of their projects in Go (or any other language) could do so outside the tent and integrate with projects inside the tent in exactly the same manner that all 3rd party vendors integrate20:36
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mordredmugsie: just to be clear - one of openstack's problems (and it has many) is not ability to find contributors20:36
sdaguemugsie: but will they be familiar with our very python way of doing it? Like imposing python concepts around docs?20:36
devanandaor that a go-sub-project's docs be written into the docs of the parent-project?20:36
morganmordred: so i think this is where we can continue to explore the CI story and infra story before we need to sign off on this choice (and it sound slike we might need to think about this for more than just golang)20:36
thingeeso as said in the review, let designate and swift begin showing collaboration on this effort by figuring out the ci/infra pieces together.20:36
annegentleand, what definition of complete for infra/test/doc/release would allow a Go project to start?20:36
morganthingee: ++20:36
flaper87bswartz: right20:36
flaper87thingee: ++20:36
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mordredannegentle: I think we need to have an idea of what the issues are, that they are solvable, and who is going to work on them20:37
flaper87ok, my IRC exploded and it's getting hard to follow.20:37
annegentledevananda I'd like discussion on that docs Q as well20:37
mordredannegentle: I don't personally think we need them all solved at the outset20:37
ttxI think all cross-project team need to do their homework and tell us what a world with Go would look like from their perspectrive20:37
* amrith tries to parse mordred's last comment20:37
annegentlemordred nor do I, but a list would help.20:37
thingeemordred: +120:37
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amrith ... " one of openstack's problems (and it has many) is not ability to find contributors"20:37
morganbswartz: i am not willing to prevent non-python inclusion if we have the other bits lined up.20:37
mordredamrith: I think we need to have at least identified the issues and who is going to work on solving them20:37
mordredoh. that20:37
amrithI think 'not' in the wrong place, maybe. ok20:38
bswartzmorgan: it's another option which should be considered20:38
mordredamrith: mugsie made a comment about possibly opening the door to the potential hordes of go devs20:38
devanandattx: ++20:38
annegentleheh, off the top of my head, no special treatment for Go docs. That makes things easier.20:38
morganbswartz: i think it is unreasonable to say "no languages but python/js (at this point)" out of hand. but coming up with the story/way to handle it is important before we specifically include it20:38
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mordredamrith: I was merely pointing out that finding developers is not a probelm we have currently20:38
mordredin fact, if we could have a few less it would be nice20:38
annegentlenotmyname if you can think of a Go-based doc system we should look into, let me know.20:38
mugsiemordred: I doubt there will be hoards, but there might be more people in the community with familiarity of both languages20:38
morganbswartz: am willing to say this will come up again even if we ask it to be 3rd party for now.20:38
mordredannegentle: last we chatted, I think "godoc" was tossed out as the thing that did dev-level docs20:38
annegentlemordred yeah that's sort of the point here, should we prioritize and focus?20:38
ttxthe release management team will look into that too, and I suspect the discussion with infra will continue this week as well20:38
amrithmordred, I think there are different problems in different projects but let's stay on the 'go-train' for now.20:38
mugsieinstead of just a small group of people in swift + designate20:39
timsimannegentle: Go has a certain level of documentation built in https://godoc.org/golang.org/x/tools/cmd/godoc20:39
morganit might be the ultimate solution, but... we'll see as the convo progresses20:39
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notmynameannegentle: it's on the list of stuff to answer. currently the full extent for the answer is "godoc + sphinx". (which isn't a full answer, obviously)20:39
flaper87I think we should move gradually with this inclusion. If anything, we should start just with specific cases rather than opening the gate to every project.20:39
devanandattx: it seems there are two threads to the discussion. a) social fragmentation of project teams b) technical challenges to meeting existing expectations around shared infrastructure20:39
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annegentlenotmyname timsim check.20:39
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clarkbone of the things that I am noticing is that a large part of the language change choice seems to be based on the performance of a specific implementation detail in how we use python: eventlet20:39
mordreddevananda: ++20:39
mordredclarkb: ++20:39
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* mordred stabs eventlet20:40
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amrithclarkb +++++20:40
annegentledevananda I think a) should include fragmentation of all community teams.20:40
clarkbit is probably also worth considering that maybe we have made poor lib choices and that langs are not necessarily the thing to get stabbed here20:40
dimsclarkb : true20:40
flaper87clarkb: +120:40
devanandaclarkb: ++20:40
dhellmannclarkb : yeah, I'd love to see a comparison with asyncio or twisted or some other similar framework20:40
mesteryclarkb: ++20:40
ttxclarkb: that's part of the technical benefits discussion20:40
morganso lets be fair, if the social fragmentation is a real concern, isn't it fair to let a couple projects lead into it?20:40
dtroyeryay! back to twisted!20:40
morganand see how it goes (beyond horizon)20:40
dimsclarkb : i still think having one more choice is not bad. projects can choose to take adopt it or not20:40
notmynamefor swift, it's not eventlet that's the problem. it's the way threads are handled20:41
morganespe. with the overlap within python and golang communities?20:41
clarkbdims: sure there may be a valid reason to switch it just seems odd to say "eventlet is bad so we used Go"20:41
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ttxso, to stay on the community costs side of the discussion...20:41
flaper87morgan: mentioned that above. Letting 1 or 2 projects experiment should be fine as long as the concerns on Ifra/CI are clarified20:41
morganttx: ++20:41
annegentlemorgan but that's part of the problem of defining community costs ONLY with dev cost.20:41
clarkbits definitely a way to address that issue, but its a very high cost one compared to potential alternatives20:41
mordredyah ... SO20:41
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mordredI'd like to disagree with morgan20:41
mordredthe costs on the infra side to support go are not going to be small20:41
dimsflaper87 : swift and designate have already done PoC's20:41
ttxdevananda listed two aspects of community costs, are there others ?20:41
mordredit's going to be a LOT of work20:41
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thingeedtroyer: NO https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/UnifiedServiceArchitecture20:42
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mordredso doing that work to allow one or two projects to 'experiment' is a bad approach20:42
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annegentlethere's way more than dev cost here. infra, test, doc, packaging, deploying20:42
flaper87dims: I know but POC is out of the TC governance and they've done that on specific environments and different communities circunstances20:42
mordredthe work on all of the things may well be completely worthwhile20:42
devanandamorgan: we already have fragmentation between python and JS community, as was pointed out earlier20:42
flaper87I'm worried about the community not the technical implications in the specific projects20:42
morganmordred: is it true we have to do someo of this work *anyway* though for any new language?20:42
mordredmorgan: there is a cost for every new language, yes20:42
morganis it worth generalizing the approach mostly at this time, and then move into "language" specifics?20:43
mordredthis is the reason that we don't want people just doing new languages all the time20:43
morganor are we already past the generalization part20:43
mordredand why we're talking about it now20:43
dimsmordred : this resolution does not do that...just go20:43
mordredI'm just saying that I think we can sort out the pros/cons before asking someone to go figure out deps and mirroring for infra20:43
mordreddims: yes. exactly20:43
mordredoh. wait. I was disagreeing with flaper87 not morgan20:43
devanandamorgan: I believe adding another language will create another "group" of folks that, while part of the big tent, feel disadvantaged and perhaps struggle to work with the Python community20:43
morganmordred: hehe.20:43
mordredI think20:43
flaper87mordred: what did I do now?20:43
mordredno idea20:43
mordredI was disagreeing with SOMEONE20:43
mordredwho may or may not even be here20:44
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ttxOK, we need to move on20:44
dimsdevananda : now we are telling them to go away, which is not good either20:44
mordredttx: but we're having so much fun!20:44
devanandamordred: +1 to figuring out the _technical_ costs of to sharing infrastructure across languages20:44
devanandamordred: before folks go off and do a bunch of work20:44
mordreddevananda: yes20:44
mordredalthough I think it's not just technical20:44
mordredthere is a social cost here20:44
ttxSo I think we managed to narrow down the community costs to two broad categories, one of them needing investigation by various teams20:44
mordredwhich sounds techincal20:44
mordredbut I tink is a community thing20:44
devanandaand i believe that can be done by a collaboration between some TC / CPL folks, and some golang folks20:44
flaper87mordred: social cost, that's the biggest of my worries here20:44
mordredthat is - there are a different set of underlying assumptions as to goals/desires baked in to various languages20:45
ttxI'd like to have time for a quick summit postmortem in open discussion while we still remember what happened there20:45
dimsmordred : we are heavily weighted towards what we know...python20:45
devanandaI'm not assuming that those are the same people -- but if there are golang experts on the TC / CPL team, great :)20:45
mordredgo makes a different set of tradeoffs20:45
mordredwhich si great20:45
mordredit should20:45
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dhellmannttx: I would also like time to discuss the leadership training trip20:45
mordredbut mapping those social expectation tradeoffs into our world20:45
ttxso I propose we defer the discussion on the technical benefits of Go to next week -- that will let the ML thread continue to grow20:45
mordredis a community issue in addition to a techincal issue20:45
devanandadhellmann: as would I20:45
flaper87perhaps we should discuss this again next week and summarize today's discussion in the review20:45
mordreda case in point - go has an amazing ability to reference depends directly via git20:45
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mordredwhich is neat and tehcnical20:46
mordredbut it places a very different value on 'releases' than we traditionally have20:46
* dhellmann would find all of this easier to digest in a document instead of irc20:46
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mordredand the broader go community operates in that way20:46
amrithmorded .. it is a nightmare for packagers ...20:46
dimsmordred : y we peeled that onion the other day on -dev20:46
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mordreddims: awesome20:46
dimsamrith : y zigo already mentioned that20:46
ttxOK - let's continue on the thread, I'll summarize the discussion on community costs on the review, and talk technical benefits next week20:46
dtroyermordred: that is one thing we will nedd to have specific guidance about… just because tooling allows bad practice doen't make it right… so yeah…20:46
mordreddtroyer: and not just allows - but actively promotes20:47
dimsdtroyer : ++20:47
ttx#action ttx to summarize community costs start-of-discussion on the review20:47
mordreddtroyer: vendoring code is considered "the right thing" in the go community20:47
dimsyay ttx :)20:47
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ttx#topic Open discussion20:47
mordreddtroyer: and there are several sets of tools to make it easier for people to do20:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:47
ttx* Summit postmortem20:47
ttxSo... how did Austin work for you ?20:47
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ttxI'd like us to discuss this today while it's still fresh20:48
thingeegood bbq20:48
ttxI was pretty happy with the Upstream development track, I think we should try to have that in Barcelona again20:48
mordredthe keynotes are still a wasted chunk of my day, but are a great time for me to get to sleep in a little20:48
sdaguemordred: you should have come to the dev lounge20:48
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mordredi'd rather be working with people during that time20:48
annegentlenice to have vids to point to also for Upstream dev track20:48
mesterythingee: Gus's Fried Chicken was great too :)20:48
dtroyercost me more productive time than I would have guessed20:48
annegentlefast video posts, dang.20:48
sdaguedev lounge needs a size increase20:48
mtreinishthingee: yes, but at the same time also not enough bbq :)20:48
mordredsdague: maybe next time let's schedule things20:48
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dhellmannI liked the upstream track, too.20:48
dims++ dhellmann20:49
ttxmordred: we managed to get the DS area doors open during keynotes this time20:49
flaper87mordred: +1 on the keynotes feedback. I normally don't show up20:49
mesteryThe location was nice, the dev area worked well!20:49
sdagueI only popped over the the upstream track once, because it was on the other side of the universe20:49
dhellmannyeah, the walking on monday killed my feet20:49
mordredupstream track was good - it was a shame it was on the same day as cross-project and ops - and yes, it was very far away20:49
ttxI was pretty disappointed by the productivity of the cross-project workshops day20:49
sdagueI think that distance was sub optimal20:49
annegentleI think I had 14k steps Mon. and Tues.20:49
devanandaI never made it into the expo hall20:49
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sdaguedevananda: me either20:49
mordredttx: yah. there were too many things co-scheduled20:49
ttxFeels like we have the same discussions every 6 months, we spend 20 min reexplaining the issue to the attendees, we don't have the people we need in the room and then the 40-min clock hits20:49
Kiallmordred: didn't you give a few of those keynotes? ;)20:49
sdaguettx: I feel like the ones I were in were pretty good20:49
mordredKiall: heh. I gave very few of them20:50
sdaguebut, again, it's about being at an actionable middle20:50
dhellmannwe had some schedule conflicts that I think could have been avoided in some of the project tracks (oslo & nova in one case)20:50
devanandattx: I felt that they were hit-and-miss. a couple x-project sessions I was in went well20:50
ttxsdague: that's because you avoided the ones that were repeats :)20:50
dhellmannwe need to do a better job with PTLs of planning20:50
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sdaguettx: yes, I did20:50
dougwigrandom observation, going to this summit with the idea of a split summit in mind, made me very much wish the summit was split already.20:50
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mordredsdague: we had a session we wanted you in20:50
devanandabut there were some decidedly difficult conflicts on Tuesday for me20:50
mordredsdague: but you were in another session20:50
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anteayadougwig: me too20:50
mordredsdague: so the one you weren't in didn't get as far as it could have20:50
ttxdougwig: yes, same here20:50
dimsdougwig : +120:50
mordredsdague: but you're juist special20:50
devanandaI also didn't go to *any* of the main conference tracks this time20:50
mordreddevananda: me either20:50
devanandasince I wasn't speaking / on any panels, I completely avoided that building (aside from check in)20:50
mordreddevananda: well, I went to the ones I was giving20:50
edleafedevananda: me neither20:50
ttxdevananda: did you wish you could ?20:51
mordredno! I did go to one - I went to gothicmindfood's talk20:51
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devanandamordred: oh! right! I went to that one20:51
devanandattx: yep. that's actually an event I would like to attend20:51
mesteryI went to mordred and ttx's talk :)20:51
mordreddevananda: ++20:51
annegentleI went between buildings for the appdev track every day20:51
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* gothicmindfood enjoyed all the hecklers from the TC20:51
devanandaa lot of folks on the Ironic team skipped out of the design summit to attend vendor talks, or operator talks about ironic20:51
mordredI would love to spend time in the conference20:51
devanandasome folks are doing really cool things with the project, it turns out :)20:51
mordredbut as usual, that is not an option20:51
ttxAnother takeaway I got was that the workroom trick (trying to lure people away from work rooms to get things done) is no longer 100% working20:51
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ttxsome of those rooms were completely overcrowded20:52
mordredttx: I do not think the workroom distinction worked at all this time20:52
mesteryttx: That has NEVER worked for neutron20:52
mordredat leat not for me20:52
ttxmordred: it was only a matter of time before they saw through the trick20:52
devanandattx: the distinction did not make any difference for ironic this time20:52
morgangothicmindfood: LOL glad you enjoyed our presence ;)20:52
ttxok, any other feedback ?20:52
ttxdhellmann wanted to discuss leadership training20:53
devanandalunch options on the dev side were the worst I've seen in a while20:53
KiallWorkshops being 2 blocks away kinda sucked :)20:53
rockygyeah.  don't confuse glutenfree with gluten containing stuff in the same lunch box20:53
Kiall(Designate gave one, I nearly got lost..)20:53
gothicmindfoodttx: I can give a quick update20:53
devanandarockyg: yea.... :(20:53
dimsdevananda : i had to go out for all lunches :)20:53
dhellmannyes, I've noticed that about 1/2 of the TC has signed up to go to training. I've been waiting to see if there was a critical mass before committing. How many others who haven't signed up are doing the same?20:53
ttxok, let's parallelize this20:53
amrithrockyg, you didn't like the vegan food with mayo eh?20:53
gothicmindfoodwe've got 10 ppl + me signed up over at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Leadershiptraining20:53
ttxfeel free to shout summit feedback while gothicmindfood explains training20:53
dhellmanngothicmindfood : only about 7 of those are TC20:53
rockygamrith, it was the pasta salad in the GF sandwich box20:54
dhellmanngothicmindfood : which is about 1/2 of the TC20:54
* dims is on vacation that week20:54
* claudiub looks at the time, panics, and just throws in the networking-hyperv governance patch for review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/311566/20:54
gothicmindfoodI'm waiting to hear from dhellmann mestery johnthetubaguy and markmcclain about attendance20:54
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gothicmindfoodI've also got 3 ppl who are not current or recent-former TC members who are interested20:54
mordredmestery: it's close-ish to where you live20:54
jrolloh, mestery lives around here too eh? :)20:54
ttxclaudiub: will approve that one tomorrow morning unless someone complains20:54
amrithgothicmindfood, are you taking names of people who'd liek to attend?20:54
gothicmindfooddhellmann: some of those are recent-former TC20:54
mordredjroll: minnesota20:54
jrollnot that close :P20:55
dhellmanngothicmindfood : true20:55
amrithnon-tc members, that is20:55
mordredjroll: :)20:55
claudiubttx: gotcha, thanks. :)20:55
mtreinishjroll: yeah it is, it's all relative :)20:55
ttxgothicmindfood: I think it's time to open to anyone20:55
gothicmindfoodamrith: current plan is to keep it open to TC and recent-former TC for the next two days, then open the rest of the slots up to the community20:55
gothicmindfoodttx: I can do that, happily :)20:55
gothicmindfoodamrith: so - I'll send an email out tomorrow AM, EST to let people know they can go ahead and sign up20:55
jrollmtreinish: I think of close-ish as driveable but fair enough20:55
gothicmindfoodeven if they're not TC :)20:55
amrithgothicmindfood, thx. will keep eye open for that.20:55
* tellesnobrega is away: I'm busy20:55
morgangothicmindfood: so how many slots will be open?20:56
gothicmindfoodmorgan: right now there are 9 more slots.20:56
ttxgothicmindfood: If we get cross-community attendance I have ideas of hard leadership problems to discuss there :)20:56
morgangothicmindfood: cool.20:56
annegentlethanks claudiub20:56
gothicmindfoodI have also asked the Foundation if there are any staff there that might be interested, but that was an aside, and I didn't get the sense they wanted me to hold spots for them20:56
mordreddhellmann: it doesn't seem you got much of an answer from anyone who isn't on the list who isn't dims20:56
annegentleclaudiub pretty sure it'll go on next week's agenda, never fear20:56
dhellmannmordred : no, not really20:57
morganstevemar: ^ cc20:57
gothicmindfoodttx: that sounds gnarly and awesome \o/20:57
ttxgothicmindfood: I'll talk to you about them once we have the attendance settled20:57
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mordreddhellmann: I could imagine johnthetubaguy having travel issues. I will however look askance at mestery if he skips, given it's one delta hub to another20:57
ttxdhellmann: does that answer your questions ?20:57
gothicmindfoodttx: sounds good20:58
dhellmannttx: I'll touch bases with some folks tomorrow. I think not everyone is here.20:58
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ttxOK, any other topic for open discussion ?20:58
ttxor random thoughts ?20:58
ttxor summit feedback ?20:58
dimsttx : 3 keynotes...i was shaking my head :(20:59
ttxthe ones on the next day were better though :)20:59
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mordredttx: yah. reitterating the dismay at some of the keynote content20:59
mordredttx: would be nice20:59
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edleafehow about Intel re-writing Nova in Go? :(21:00
thingeethanks to dhellmann for raising that in the feedback session21:00
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* dtroyer sees something shiny over there21:00
rockygapp wasn't half bad.  Just need to tie it into the phone clock on the "my sched" portion21:00
ttxok, out of time21:00
amrithedleafe, c#21:00
sdagueyeh, it would be nice if the keynotes were actually about openstack, and not random non openstack gorp21:00
dhellmannyes, the foundation folks were really receptive to that but I wouldn't want to speak for them on any action they plan to take21:00
sdagueagree thanks dhellmann for bringing that up21:00
dimsedleafe : you should have posted that just before the summit :)21:00
ttxWe'll continue the discussion on Go next week, please chime on the thread if you have a strong opinion one way or another21:00
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ttxdiscussion next week will be focused on technical benefits21:00
edleafedims: I'll time it for the next one :)21:00
dimslol edleafe21:01
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dimssounds good ttx21:01
ttxgiving time for Infra/RelMgt/Doc to do their homework on Go support21:01
ttxThanks everyone21:01
amrithouch; did edleafe just throw that pitcher at me?21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 10 21:01:27 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-05-10-20.02.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-05-10-20.02.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-05-10-20.02.log.html21:01
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morganomg MEETING OVAR21:01
morganthingee: lunch?21:01
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mesterymordred: This gogo on my current flight is killing my ability to respond to things here :(21:02
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morganmestery: so .. normal for gogo?21:02
mesterymordred: But yeah, I need to look into this ASAP as I promised gothicmindfood21:02
thingeemestery: gogo is better than than the wifi we have this coffee shop.21:02
thingeemestery: and I'm using mosh for irc stuff21:02
mesterymorgan: Sadly yes normal for gogo :(21:03
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thingeemestery: I will give a bad review to this coffee shop for their wifi. good coffee though. ;)21:03
stevemargothicmindfood: morgan mordred oh for the tc leadership thing, i was looking into that, i thought it wasn't open to non-TCers21:03
gothicmindfoodstevemar: I'll be opening it up tomorrow AM on the -dev list21:04
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mesterythingee: At least the coffee is good! :)21:04
morgangothicmindfood: i thought i'd specifically point stevemar at it... cause.. i could since it was being opened up21:04
morgangothicmindfood: ^_^21:04
gothicmindfoodmorgan: woot!21:04
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thingeemestery: I was mostly making a joke since it annoys me when people give a bad review on something that's not primarily their business - though maybe we're changing in that aspect that your internet connection is what makes a coffee shop.21:04
stevemarmorgan: was it you i asked about that? i spoke to someone about it..21:05
morganmight have been me.21:05
* morgan shrugs.21:05
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