Tuesday, 2016-06-28

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 28 03:00:10 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-06-28_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
mkraiMadhuri Kumari03:00
hongbinThanks for joining the meeting namrata yanyanhu haiwei Wenzhi mkrai eliqiao03:01
hongbinPause a few more minutes03:01
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hongbinflwang: hey03:02
hongbin#topic Announcements03:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)"03:02
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hongbinOur IRC channel has been rename to #openstack-zun. The old channel #openstack-higgins is deprecated.03:02
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330017/03:03
hongbinThe above patch was landed. That means all the bots are moved to the new channel03:03
hongbinThe old channel will be duplicated03:03
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eliqiaohongbin: we can kick, or force more guys in openstack-higgins to openstack-zun03:03
hongbinYes, I am figuring out how to do that03:04
hongbineliqiao: will work with you offline03:04
yanyanhuanyway to 'move' people from one channel to another ?03:04
sudiptoo/ sorry a bit late.03:04
yanyanhuhi, sudipto03:04
hongbinsudipto: hey. NP03:04
mkraiSend out an ML03:04
hongbinmkrai: good idea03:04
sudiptoyanyanhu, hongbin hello :)03:04
hongbinHowever, there is a way to forward from old channel to new channel03:05
hongbinI tried that but it seems I don't have permission to execute the commands03:05
shubham_o/ Hi , Its my first meeting here. I am shubham and I have knowledge on dockers and python.  I am looking forward to contribute to Zun project03:05
sudiptowelcome shubham_03:05
mkraiHi shubham_03:05
hongbinshubham_: welcome03:05
mkraiYou're welcome03:05
hongbinshubham_: which company you belong to?03:05
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hongbinI see03:06
shubham_Thanks all for your warm welcome03:06
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hongbinOK. About the channel rename03:07
hongbinAny further comment?03:07
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hongbin#topic Review Action Items03:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)"03:07
hongbin#topic Architecture design03:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Architecture design (Meeting topic: zun)"03:07
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-architecture-decisions03:07
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hongbinWe are debating the design options in the last meeting03:08
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hongbinAnd the options were written down in the etherpad above03:08
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hongbinDoes everyone have a chance to go though the etherpad?03:08
sudiptohongbin, i think your design option 1.1 kind of bridges the gap between people who want to do a COE vs who want to integrate with the COEs. From a desire per say.03:09
yanyanhuyes, I'm there03:09
mkraiLooks we have multiple option03:09
mkraiAgree sudipto03:09
yanyanhusudipto, have the same feeling03:09
hongbinsudipto: flwang suggested this option :)03:09
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hongbincredits to flwang03:10
sudiptoflwang, ++03:10
yanyanhuthanks, flwang :)03:10
mkraicool flwang03:10
eliqiaoflwang: thx man!03:10
yanyanhuso we are in the same page now :)03:10
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Wenzhicool flwang03:10
hongbinseems like we are on the same page. Option 1.1?03:11
flwangwow, i got a lot of +103:11
hongbinIf there is any opossing point of view, now it is the time to speak up03:11
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mkraihongbin, flwang I think first let's describe the option little bit03:12
sudiptoflwang, hongbin - just a little concern over point iv)03:12
mkraiSo that everyone here gets the idea03:12
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eliqiao          iv) One way to alleviate the weakness above is to build custom COEs dedicated for OpenStack (i.e. Hypernetes), which is design option #4. However, it is not recommanded because it violates the principles of "community first".03:12
sudiptoit doesn't seem to conclude what we mean there.03:12
sudiptoand is kind of the anit-pattern :)03:13
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hongbinThat means basically port COEs to openstack03:14
hongbinlike Hypernetes03:14
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sudiptoi think the "like hypernetes" confused me...03:14
hongbinHowever, maintain a folk is not trivial03:14
flwangfirstly i think we're not breaking the 'community first'03:14
hongbinsudipto: Hypernetes ported Kubernetes to OpenStack03:14
flwangwe do support k8s03:14
sudiptohongbin, ah - got it now.03:15
flwangand we leave the option to cloud admin/operator03:15
flwanglet's say, if our native built-in COE is sucks03:15
flwangthen cloud admin/operator can use k8s03:15
flwangif we're doing better job03:15
hongbinflwang: The principle of community first, code second, means always contribute to upstream, no folk03:15
flwangso anyway03:15
Wenzhiagree flwang03:15
sudiptoflwang, that sounds good.03:15
yanyanhusounds good to me.03:16
flwangi'm putting my devops hat03:16
flwanganother story maybe not related is03:16
flwangthink about vmware in openstack community03:16
flwangyou got my point03:17
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hongbinI am going to mark option 1.1 as agreed03:17
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flwanghongbin: we should draft it as a spec03:17
sudiptohongbin, flwang agreed.03:18
flwangand send a request to ML for spec review03:18
hongbinflwang: sure03:18
hongbin#agreed Design options 1.1 (amendment of option 1): Abastract COEs, and provide a native/built-in COE that abstract container runtimes03:18
hongbin#action hongbin draft a spec for design option 1.103:18
hongbinThat concludes the design of Zun03:18
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hongbin(high level design)03:19
hongbinNext topic03:19
sudiptohongbin, with you on this one...reviews/drafting of the same. if you need anything.03:19
hongbinsudipto: I will put the draft into an etherpad03:19
sudiptohongbin, cool.,03:19
hongbinSo everyone will collaborate03:19
hongbin#topic API design03:19
*** openstack changes topic to "API design (Meeting topic: zun)"03:19
yanyanhuthanks, will help as well03:19
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/api-design The BP03:19
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-containers-service-api Etherpad03:20
hongbinmkrai: you want to lead the discussion?03:20
mkraiSo last time we discussed about API design, we had discussion on supporting COEs or not03:20
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mkraiIMO the API design we have will remain the same03:21
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mkraiWhat do you guys think?03:21
sudiptomkrai, you mean replace the CRUD from  containers to Clusters?03:22
haiweiwhat do you mean by remaining the same?03:22
mkraiWe will still have CRUD operation that applies to all COEs03:22
mkraiIsn't it?03:22
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yanyanhuno I think?03:23
yanyanhuCRUD for COEs is now supported by Magnum?03:23
yanyanhumy understanding03:23
hongbinmagnum supports CRUD for bays03:24
yanyanhuI mean creating, deleting, updating of COE clusters03:24
sudiptosomething like v1/cluster1?container=xyz is possible? (CRUD on that)03:24
Wenzhiyanyanhu: that's magnum's scope03:24
hongbinWhy we consider clusters?03:24
yanyanhuWenzhi, yes03:24
yanyanhuhongbin, have the same question03:24
mkraiyanyanhu, I don't meant that03:24
eliqiaoI still think on this design, zun is looks like old magnum03:25
mkraisudipto, What is cluster1 here? Nodes running the COEs?03:25
yanyanhumkrai, ok, my misunderstanding :)03:25
Wenzhishould not we support CRUD for containers in Zun?03:25
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eliqiao(away from pod CRUD)03:25
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sudiptohongbin, mkrai cluster1 per design 1.1 is set of containers .03:25
yanyanhusudipto, I see03:25
yanyanhucluster of container, not COE cluster03:26
haiweiit seems magnum also support CRUD of containers, wenzhi03:26
sudiptoyanyanhu, yeah03:26
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Wenzhigot it, yanyanhu03:26
mkraihaiwei, No Magnum doesn't03:26
hongbinhaiwei: No, magnum removes its container endpoints03:26
haiweiok, got it03:26
eliqiaoMagnum won't support container CRUD03:26
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Wenzhiso cluster in Zun means composition of containers, right?03:27
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sudiptoWenzhi, i thought so...03:27
sudiptohowever, i do feel we have to abstract that 'cluster of containers' into some sort of an abstract entity that applies to all coes?03:27
mkraihongbin, sudipto Is it not like user will say create me a container of type kubernetes or swarm?03:27
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sudiptomkrai, i would imagine so. for the user it's about the cluster, for the operator - it's about which COE driver to use.03:27
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eliqiaomkrai: that will looks like old Magnum APIs.03:28
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mkraiEveryone I think there is understanding gap on design point 1.103:28
hongbinOne thing to clarify, Magnum supports provisioning COEs, zun supports interfacting with COEs03:28
yanyanhusudipto, agree. Just feel we need both container primitive and cluster03:28
mkraiEveryone has different understanding :D03:28
eliqiaoFor users: get me a container, For operation admin: get me a cluster which can have containers run on top of it.03:28
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mkraihongbin, +103:29
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yanyanhuand the latter one is based on the formal one03:29
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sudiptoyanyanhu, i guess that's the reason i said cluster?container=xyz - in case of a single container - the cluster probably just has one entity...03:29
eliqiaohongbin: actually, old Magnum has some zun's work (interface part) ?03:29
yanyanhusudipto, I see, so you suggest we use 'cluster' as the name of Zun primitive03:29
mkraieliqiao, We are abstracting COEs, so it means we are running container on any of the COEs03:29
sudiptoyanyanhu, not crazy about the name, just using it as a symbolic representation :)03:30
hongbineliqiao: Yes, but the "old magnum" don't have a unified API layer03:30
eliqiaomkrai: I know that, but zun should know what COE is running03:30
yanyanhuwhich could be a single container or a set of container03:30
yanyanhuI see03:30
mkraieliqiao,  Yes it should03:30
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eliqiaohongbin: bingo, I get it (they do have pod/containes) and now I will unify it as "container"03:30
Wenzhican we treat COEs as hypervisors for container?03:31
mkraiWenzhi,  Yes i think so03:31
eliqiaothen zun will fall back to a API gateway ?03:31
hongbinWenzhi: you can think this way03:31
yanyanhueliqiao, I think the developer and operator of Zun will know the existence of backend COEs, but for enduser, those COEs are transparent I think03:31
eliqiaoCOEs are provisoned by Magnum and Zun just do the interface to COEs?03:31
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hongbineliqiao: It seems you are right03:32
sudiptoeliqiao, broadly - one use case like that. which could be that magnum does the provisoning and hands over the cluster to zun - to now do things with it.03:32
yanyanhuend users don't need to know who(which COE) is at the backend03:32
hongbineliqiao: Besides, Zun provides a native COE03:32
eliqiaohongbin: then do we still need zun-agent on each node?03:32
hongbineliqiao: yes03:32
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sudiptoeliqiao, we had this discussion with hongbin on the channel, some of his concerns were not to tie it tightly with magnum - it's one way to imagine it.03:33
xiangxinyongIt seems that zun is above magnum.03:33
eliqiaohongbin: so the zun-agent only requrired by our nagive COE, right?03:33
mkraieliqiao, We will also have some Openstack native COE03:33
eliqiaoxiangxinyong: you got it.03:33
yanyanhueliqiao, I think that means Zun support different COEs and the built-in one(proposed in option1.1) is one of them03:33
hongbineliqiao: yes zun-agent is only for native COE03:33
eliqiaoyanyanhu: agreed03:33
eliqiaohongbin: ah03:33
eliqiaoI am now get it all!03:34
yanyanhueliqiao, you're right about the zun-agent I think03:34
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eliqiao++ for option 1.103:34
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hongbinFor the disucssion of cluster03:34
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haiweiif we put zun above magnum, there is no need to integrate with Nova?03:35
hongbinI don't think we need to worry about that , until we work on magnum integration03:35
eliqiaothe things we need to figure out is how to mapping other COEs 'container/pods' to zun's container object.03:35
mkraiOk so now for API we need to find a term represents a group of container03:35
sudiptoeliqiao, precisely!03:35
hongbinhaiwei: No, we need to integrate with Nova as well03:35
Wenzhiagree eliqiao03:35
* sudipto thinks since we are sort of agreed on the design, we could discuss the implementation design next on an etherpad.03:35
eliqiaohongbin: haiwei integrate with nova is for our native COE, I think.03:36
mkraieliqiao, IMO it can be any COE03:36
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hongbinThere are two things that is confusing. 1. Zun itself, 2. Zun's native COE03:37
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hongbinActually, we needs two APIs for above03:37
hongbin(I think)03:37
hongbinOne set of APIs for #1, another set of APIs for #2?03:37
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sudiptohongbin, zun itself is just a container?03:38
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sudiptohongbin, that is what do you mean by #103:38
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hongbinsudipto: zun itself is an layer to abstract COE03:38
sudiptohongbin, ah got it...basically you want to have two different APIs - 1. for abstraction 2. for native zun COE...03:39
hongbinThat is the idea in my mind03:39
Wenzhirequest->Zun API->Zun COE API?03:39
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shubham_hongbin: I think #2 resembles other COEs in magnum and can be used in magnum as inbuilt api along with docker, kubernetes etc ?03:39
mkraihongbin, isn't it possible to abstract both?03:39
eliqiaowe can call it as instance too, which means abstract layer of COEs.03:39
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yanyanhueliqiao, +103:40
hongbinshubham_: Magnum should belong to provisioning COEs only03:40
yanyanhumkrai, it could be I think03:40
hongbinmkrai: Maybe, that is an alternative03:40
sudiptohongbin, i think what shubham_ means that if zun becomes a COE, it probably can be provisioned via magnum or something like that :)03:40
shubham_+1 sudipto03:40
hongbinsudipto: Yes, magnum integration is possible03:41
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Wenzhiif Zun native COE becomes mature in the future, maybe we can split it out from Zun to a new project03:41
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eliqiaothen we compete with other COES :(03:42
yanyanhueliqiao, if it's really good, why not :)03:42
hongbinWenzhi: sure. That is how neutron-lbaas and octavia works03:42
flwangWenzhi: don't say that :D03:42
Wenzhieliqiao: if it's mature and stable, we can compete them03:42
mkraiEventually we are going it even if we don't want it :D03:42
yanyanhubut if it is not good enough, it will be just a reference03:42
Wenzhiit's too early to say that03:42
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hongbinYes, the key work: reference implementation03:43
flwangif you want to get approval from the board03:43
flwanglet's say the built-in implement is just a reference for testing03:43
flwangfor now03:43
flwangyou can make it better if you want03:43
flwangyou can even make it better than k8s03:43
eliqiaoflwang: you are a old bird :)03:43
flwangyour choice03:43
mkraiOk so now we need to redesign our API endpoints03:43
Wenzhigot it03:43
flwangjust my 0.0203:44
mkraiPlease write down your views on etherpad03:44
hongbinflwang: agree. Officially, I would like to say it is an reference implementation03:44
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mkraihongbin, Do you think the current one applies to Zun itself option?03:44
hongbinmkrai: ??03:45
mkraiOk so you said there can be two sets of API. #1 Zun itself03:45
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mkraiIt means the API for Zun COE03:45
hongbinThat needs to be discussed further03:46
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hongbinIf we want it to be a reference COE, it should have its own set of APIs03:46
mkraiYes not simply a wrapper over docker03:46
hongbinmkrai: I think it is a wrapper of container runtims03:47
mkraiSo we need to redesign our APIs03:47
mkraiAgree hongbin03:47
hongbinmkrai: I think the design is good so far03:47
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mkraihongbin, I meant like k8s we have similar concept of pod?03:48
hongbinOK. Folks. To avoid confusion, we need to decide which one to start first03:48
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hongbin#1 Zun API layter, #2 Zun's reference implementatoin of COE03:48
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hongbinIf #1, we design a API for COEs03:49
hongbinIf #2, we design an API for container runtimes03:49
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mkrai#2 first03:49
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yanyanhuagree with mkrai03:49
sudiptoI think the API abstraction/design is the key. So the etherpad sounds like a good idea to start discussion. I am in two minds about two different zun APIs at the moment...but i need to think through.03:49
yanyanhusince if we want to use it as reference, it should be there first03:49
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flwanghere is an api ref if you guys interested in :)  http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonECS/latest/APIReference/Welcome.html03:50
hongbinsudipto: We can discuss that further03:50
flwanggiven we have agreed to go to #1.1, basically we're doing the similar thing as ECS03:50
flwangmore or less03:51
hongbinflwang: Frankly, I think everyone complains about ECS APIs :)03:51
hongbin#link https://railsadventures.wordpress.com/2015/12/06/why-we-chose-kubernetes-over-ecs/03:51
flwanghongbin: if we can figure out what is bad, that's good03:51
hongbinflwang: In the summit, the feedback is : It is bad because it is not a kubernetes API :)03:52
flwangthat's a good excuse03:52
hongbinmkrai: For the API design, I think we can start with the reference COE design03:53
flwangbut before competing with google, at least we can beat yahoo03:53
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yanyanhuflwang, :)03:53
flwangthat's a bad example, just kidding03:53
mkraiOk cool03:53
hongbinmkrai: Then, the one in your etherpad looks good, after crossing out k8s03:53
yanyanhuyahoo is not happy to listen this03:53
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flwangi'm kidding :)03:54
hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:54
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yanyanhusure :P03:54
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mkraiI will try to write a spec for it in this week03:54
flwangmy point is03:54
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flwangat least we can learn something from ecs03:54
hongbinsudipto: we will discuss with you about the idea of two set of APIs03:54
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hongbinsudipto: Just find a time offline. We can talk03:54
mkraihongbin, I will also like to join03:54
sudiptohongbin, sounds sweet!03:55
mkraiPlease let me know the timing03:55
hongbinmkrai: will ping you03:55
yanyanhuflwang, agree03:55
hongbinflwang: we can learn something from k8s as well (why it is so success)03:56
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sudiptothat space is crowded to be honest...there are complaints on k8s being complicated to use as opposed to docker swarm03:56
sudiptobut that's for another day really.03:56
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hongbinsudipto: I see03:57
hongbinSo, k8s is not perfect03:57
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sudiptoI think once we are settled into the design, a fast prototype would be nice to have. after all, there03:57
yanyanhuno one is :) that's why they are all still alive :P03:57
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sudiptoi mean after all, this space is all about speed - whether it's boot time or it's product release time :)03:58
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hongbinOK. Time is up03:59
yanyanhunice, will learn it03:59
hongbinAll. Thanks for joining hte meeting03:59
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hongbinDiscussion continue offline03:59
sudiptothanks everyone!!03:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 28 03:59:37 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-06-28-03.00.html03:59
mkraiThanks everyone03:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-06-28-03.00.txt03:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-06-28-03.00.log.html03:59
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yanyanhu#startmeeting senlin13:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 28 13:01:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:01
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yanyanhuhi, elynn13:01
yanyanhuhi, lixinhui_13:02
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yanyanhulong time no see :P13:02
yanyanhuok, here is the agenda, plz feel free to add any item you want to discuss13:02
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yanyanhu#topic newton workitem13:03
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*** openstack changes topic to "newton workitem (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:03
yanyanhuhere is the etherpad track our newton workitem13:03
yanyanhufirst item, testing13:03
yanyanhutempest API test has been done13:03
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yanyanhuand tempest functional test is in good progress13:03
elynnDose release notes in?13:04
yanyanhuI think all existing functional test cases have been migrated(some in progress)13:04
yanyanhuelynn, not yet, several patches are still under review :)13:04
yanyanhubut I think we can finish it in this week13:04
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yanyanhuthe new gate job for tempest functional test is also available now13:05
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yanyanhualthough it is experimental and doesn't vote13:05
yanyanhuafter the functional test migration is done, I will propose a patch to remove the old functional test gate job13:05
yanyanhuit will be replaced by the new one :)13:06
yanyanhuthen we will have two jobs enabled in both check and gate pipeline and they will vote13:06
yanyanhuok, this is the tempest test part13:06
yanyanhuabout rally plugin, didn't get time to work on it this week13:06
yanyanhubut our patch to add cluster/profile plugin for rally got first +213:07
yanyanhuneed another +2 and workflow13:07
yanyanhubasically, it looks good now13:07
yanyanhuhi, lixinhui_ , around?13:07
yanyanhuany update on HA related work :)13:08
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yanyanhuI think Qiming didn't get time to work on it in last week13:08
lixinhui_I finished the fencing tests13:08
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lixinhui_need to discuss how to bring into13:09
yanyanhuthat is important for our HA solution13:09
lixinhui_And I tried the resilient13:09
yanyanhuI think we can make further discussion in irc channel to decide how to merge into current HA framework13:09
lixinhui_elastic cluster template with ceilometer/aodh/gnocchi13:09
lixinhui_yes, yanyanhu13:09
yanyanhuso monitoring has been included?13:10
yanyanhufor failure detection?13:10
yanyanhuactually I'm thinking how to build the basic workflow of our HA solution, including leverage other monitor service to detect failure in different layers13:11
lixinhui_what the failure detection?13:11
yanyanhulike host/VM crash or app failure13:12
lixinhui_the failure detection is based on node status13:12
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yanyanhuyes, from nova notification, e.g.13:12
yanyanhufor VM failure13:12
yanyanhuI think Qiming was working on this?13:12
lixinhui_one problem I met is about heat13:12
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lixinhui_where do you know to set the timeout or retry time13:13
yanyanhuretry for?13:13
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lixinhui_creation of loadbalancer is very slow13:13
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lixinhui_then heat stack-create will keep retrying13:13
yanyanhuyes, it is sometimes13:13
yanyanhuI'm not sure there is such an option to customized13:13
lixinhui_then there will be several loadbalancers under creation13:13
yanyanhuhi, elynn, do you have any idea?13:13
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lixinhui_I think there should be somewhere can be customized13:14
lixinhui_and I know Qiming is adding listener13:14
lixinhui_for detection functions13:14
yanyanhuI guess that is a fixed value defined in heat engine?13:15
yanyanhuso you put all those resources in a heat template?13:15
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elynnretry time for creating resource?13:15
yanyanhulixinhui_, maybe you can try to split lb resource from other ones if the stack creation always failed for the timeout of lb creation13:16
lixinhui_to avoid creations duplicated creation of loadbalancer13:16
lixinhui_yanyanhu, I am using the same template as we presented in Austin13:16
lixinhui_which is committed into as a tutorial13:16
yanyanhulixinhui_, that should happened I think if you mean duplicated creation of lb for timeout retry13:17
elynnI can't remember any property or configurations about that.13:17
yanyanhulixinhui_, I see13:17
lixinhui_that is okay elynn13:17
lixinhui_octavia is so slow13:17
yanyanhusorry, that shouldn't happen13:17
yanyanhuso haproxy works well13:17
elynnI can check later13:17
yanyanhubut octavia doesn't?13:18
lixinhui_that will be very nice, elynn13:18
elynnThat would be a problem if it happens on presentation...13:18
lixinhui_yes, yanyanhu13:18
yanyanhuI see13:18
lixinhui_elynn, nsx and haporxy work well13:18
yanyanhuelynn, hope we can find some solution for it13:18
yanyanhuor in worst case, use some workaround13:19
lixinhui_why so many people use octavia13:19
yanyanhulixinhui_, we don't :)13:19
lixinhui_yanyanhu, what kinds backend for IBM13:19
elynnWe can at least change the hardcode retry times in our env ;)13:19
yanyanhuI'm not sure. But I think octavia is better than haproxy hosted in network controller13:20
elynnSaw an option client_retry_limit13:20
elynnwe can try to increase it in heat.conf13:20
yanyanhunot only reduce the risk of single failure, but also much better scalability I think13:20
lixinhui_oh, elynn?13:20
yanyanhusorry, single point failure13:21
lixinhui_okay yanyanhu13:21
lixinhui_I see13:21
yanyanhuBTW, I have draft a topic proposal about HA for Barcelona summit13:21
yanyanhuhope we can finish our HA design and make a presentation for it13:21
yanyanhuI added you two and Qiming's name as speaker13:22
elynnAnd also we can specify an timeout parameter when creating new stack.13:22
yanyanhuI think we can make further discussion to see how can we build this demo13:22
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lixinhui_okay, yanyanhu. will read it and raise discussion13:22
lixinhui_sounds like a better solution, elynn13:22
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yanyanhulixinhui_, thanks :) I think HA is an important feature we need to finish in this cycle13:23
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yanyanhualthough maybe the basic one, we hope it is a complete loop, from failure detection to recovery13:23
lixinhui_is that a cli parameter? elynn13:24
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elynnlixinhui_: yes13:24
lixinhui_okay, I will try it13:24
lixinhui_yes, yanynahu13:24
yanyanhulixinhui_, timeout works well I think13:24
yanyanhufor heat stack creation13:25
yanyanhuyou can have a try. I tried to increase it from 1 hour to 10 hours when deployed a very large and complicated stack in softlayer13:25
elynnThat is so long.13:26
lixinhui_happy to know13:26
yanyanhuok, I think we can collect our idea about HA topic using  this existing etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-ha-recover13:26
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yanyanhuelynn, yes, since the deployment of some services inside VM is very slow :)13:26
yanyanhulike DB213:26
yanyanhuand we used software deployment for it13:27
elynnthat's true...13:27
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yanyanhuanyway, it works good13:27
yanyanhuok, so this is about HA?13:27
yanyanhuwe can have more discussion offline13:28
yanyanhuthanks, xinhui13:28
yanyanhunext one13:28
yanyanhulets skip document13:28
yanyanhuI guess haiwei is not here?13:28
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yanyanhuI noticed he proposed patch to add docker driver13:29
yanyanhualthough just for most basic operations like creating, deleting13:29
yanyanhuit's a startpoint I think13:29
yanyanhuwill talk with him to add more driver interfaces13:29
yanyanhuumm, for other left items, we have no progress I think13:30
yanyanhuso topic 213:30
yanyanhu#topic proposal for summit13:30
*** openstack changes topic to "proposal for summit (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:30
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yanyanhuhi, elynn, lixinhui_ , any idea :)13:30
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yanyanhubesides the HA one13:30
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elynnNot sure what else we can propose13:31
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lixinhui_I think that is worthy a talk13:31
yanyanhuyou mean deployment? lixinhui_13:31
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yanyanhuof app13:31
lixinhui_and any cluster management13:32
yanyanhuI see. It's very useful and powerful I believe13:32
yanyanhujust I feel we may need a use case as reference13:32
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lixinhui_integration will some given agent13:32
yanyanhuotherwise, pure technical discussion could be difficult to understand for audience who are not familiar with Senlin code13:32
yanyanhulixinhui_, for agent, you mean?13:33
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lixinhui_agent of some given monitor13:33
yanyanhuso this for HA solution?13:34
yanyanhuas monitoring part?13:34
lixinhui_I think it should be a separate topic13:34
elynnWe can think of some use cases, like scaling from a standby pool, green-blue deployment13:34
lixinhui_cool, ekynn13:34
yanyanhuelynn, that's interesting as well13:34
yanyanhuok, I will create an etherpad to collect these ideas13:34
elynnHow to use senlin for better management.13:34
yanyanhuand then we can discuss and refine them to see what we can propose13:35
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yanyanhu#action yanyanhu to create an etherpad to collect proposal ideas13:35
yanyanhuoh, BTW, I also talked with eldon to see whether we can propose one to share their experience on managing cluster in large scale13:35
yanyanhueldon from cmcc13:35
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lixinhui_cool yanyanhu13:36
yanyanhuthey have tried to use senlin to manage  cluster consists of a thousand of VMs?13:36
yanyanhuI think13:36
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lixinhui_you know I always wanna to learn more details13:36
yanyanhuso that can be a very good demonstration and sharing13:36
yanyanhuthey also met some problems I believe13:36
yanyanhulixinhui_, sure, me too :)13:36
yanyanhuso lesson and learn13:37
yanyanhuwill add it as well13:37
yanyanhuI will create the etherpad and post the link into irc channel13:37
yanyanhuthe deadline is 13th ?13:38
yanyanhuso we need to propose before that date :)13:38
elynnabout 2 weeks13:38
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yanyanhulots of thinking needed :P13:39
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yanyanhuok, that's for proposal for summit13:39
yanyanhu#topic open discussion13:39
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:39
yanyanhuany other items you guys want to discuss?13:39
elynnno from me13:40
yanyanhuif not, we can finish 20 minutes earlier :)13:40
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lixinhui_Qiming should be a good dad13:41
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elynnCongratuate to him :)13:41
yanyanhulixinhui_, I believe so :)13:41
yanyanhuso maybe a month later, we can go to his home to see his baby:)13:42
yanyanhulets go together13:42
lixinhui_he will be managed by two women13:42
lixinhui_since then13:42
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yanyanhulixinhui_, LOL13:42
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yanyanhuok, thank you so much for joining13:43
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yanyanhuI think we can finish the meeting now13:43
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lixinhui_see you next time13:43
yanyanhulets make further discussion later13:43
yanyanhusee U13:43
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:43
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 28 13:43:27 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:43
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-06-28-13.01.html13:43
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-06-28-13.01.txt13:43
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-06-28-13.01.log.html13:43
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saggi#topic smaug15:00
saggi#startmeeting smaug15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 28 15:00:10 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: smaug)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'smaug'15:00
saggihi everyone15:00
saggiawesome to see that everyone is here15:00
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saggi#topic Triumphant return of the PTL15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Triumphant return of the PTL (Meeting topic: smaug)"15:01
yuvalWelcome back15:01
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saggiI'm back but there are still terbulant times ahead15:02
yuvalLet's just hope there will be no Moadi Bet15:02
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saggi#topic Open Issues15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Issues (Meeting topic: smaug)"15:03
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saggiAnything urgent I need to look in to?15:03
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yuvalzengchen has 2 patches with +2 on them15:04
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saggiI'll look at it now15:04
yuvalbut other than that, nope15:04
saggiI'll try and catch up with everyone else on IRC tomorrow morning since most of the team is asleep15:04
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saggiI'll cut early since there isn't anything on the table15:05
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:05
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 28 15:05:30 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:05
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-06-28-15.00.html15:05
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-06-28-15.00.txt15:05
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-06-28-15.00.log.html15:05
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sridhar_ram#startmeeting tacker16:03
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openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 28 16:03:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tacker'16:03
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sridhar_ram#topic Roll Call16:03
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sridhar_ramwho is here ?16:03
tung_doanhi all16:03
sridhar_ramhello all !16:04
sridhar_ramlet's start..16:04
sridhar_ram#topic Agenda16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:04
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sridhar_ram#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker16:04
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sridhar_ramAlso, given tung_doan is here i would like to get few words from his side on alarm-monitor16:05
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tung_doansridhar_ram: ok16:05
sridhar_ram#topic Annoucements16:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Annoucements (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:05
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sridhar_ram#info Tacker client version 0.4.0 (newton)  is released16:06
sridhar_ram#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-announce/2016-June/001259.html16:06
sridhar_ramWe have been making regular releases off stable branches. This is the first time we are starting to make a tackerclient release off master.16:07
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KanagarajMnice !16:07
sridhar_ramwill add tackerclient to global-requirements for us and other projects (like Mistral) to use16:07
sridhar_ramFYI, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/334641/16:07
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: thanks!16:07
sridhar_ramyes, finally!16:08
sridhar_ramOpenStack Barcelona Summit talk submission deadline is fast approaching16:08
sridhar_ramYou folks should try to put a good set of submissions on Tacker!16:09
sridhar_rams/a/a lot of/16:09
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, i'm thinking of the Scaling could be nice topic :)16:09
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KanagarajMwith alarm in place16:09
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: of course !16:09
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sridhar_ramJULY 13, 2016 AT 11:59PM PDT (JULY 14 6:59 UTC) IS THE DEADLINE TO SUBMIT A TALK16:09
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sridhar_ramPlease watchout for local UTC time... and don't make it last minute :)16:10
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tung_doanKanagarajM: scaling + monitoring is impossible? I try to do it16:10
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sridhar_rammoving on...16:10
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sridhar_ram#topic OPNFV Summit Update16:10
*** openstack changes topic to "OPNFV Summit Update (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:10
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sridhar_ramVideos are available at Videos - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3EjXLJbub0tPFpnI3vEmYg16:11
sridhar_ramTacker design summit session is available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSaQth_nJHI16:11
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sridhar_ramIn short, lot of NFV MANO discussions and sessions..16:12
sridhar_ramOpen-O, OpenBaton and Tacker was discussed quite a bit16:12
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sridhar_ramTwo demos using Tacker + VNFFFG where shown in the demo floor16:12
sridhar_ramKudos to trozet efforts !!16:13
trozetthanks :)16:13
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sripriyagreat job trozet!16:13
KanagarajMgood to see the tacker values :)16:13
sridhar_ramwe also need to engage more with various OPNFV Projects16:13
sridhar_ramFuncTest is of immediate importance... we need Tacker tests running in OPNFV Scenario testbed16:14
bobhsridhar_ram: sorry late16:14
sridhar_ramWe also have an oppurtunities to engage with lots of other projects like VNF Event Stream (VES), Domino, ...16:14
sridhar_rambobh: howdy! we are just warming up16:15
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sridhar_ramThere is also a main Tacker talk session, still waiting for the youtube link...16:15
sridhar_ramwill pass it onto the team...16:15
sridhar_ramwhen i get it16:15
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sridhar_rammeanwhile, if some you want to work on Tacker on the OPNFV project do let me know.. i will connect you with the right people16:15
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sridhar_ram*some of you16:16
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sridhar_ramany questions ?16:16
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sridhar_rammoving on..16:16
sridhar_ram#topic Alarm-Monitoring16:16
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*** openstack changes topic to "Alarm-Monitoring (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:16
* sridhar_ram apologizes for the slight change in agenda order16:17
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: can you please give an update where this spec stands ?16:17
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sridhar_ramreviewers of alarm-spec : please pitch in :)16:17
tung_doansridhar_ram: I already updated spec last week: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/306562/14/specs/newton/alarm-based-monitoring-driver.rst16:18
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tung_doansridhar_ram: i wtill wait for reviewers. Also, I updated CLI cmmand  in L146. Let see.16:19
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: one area i've some concern is, this spec refers to some scaling related things.. wouldn't that be an overlap with what is in the scaling spec ?16:19
tung_doansridhar_ram: absolutely not.16:20
sridhar_ramah, perhaps i was looking at an older version.. my bad16:20
sridhar_ramalright, cool then..16:21
tung_doansridhar_ram: IMO, scaling will be done once triggers sent by Ceilometer. it totally different scenario16:21
sridhar_rambobh: as usual i'm going to bug you to review this  :)16:21
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: perfect!16:21
tung_doansridhar_ram:  currently, I am going with this16:22
bobhsridhar_ram: I figured :-)16:22
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: what happens after an alarm from ceilometer is totally upto what is specified in the TOSCA template..16:22
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: .. at some point in the future an action might involving sending an SMS - who knows16:23
sridhar_ramtung_doan: thanks for the update16:23
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tung_doansridhar_ram:  regrading to notification like SMS, I already think about it16:23
sridhar_ramtung_doan: ha, ha.. that is not futuristic enough :)16:23
sripriyatung_doan: will you be creating a new abstract driver for the alarm framework?16:24
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tung_doansridhar_ram:  right16:24
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: did u catch srirpriya's questions ?16:25
tung_doansridhar_ram:  what question? sridhar :)16:26
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sridhar_ramnevermind, let's take it to #tacker after the meeting16:26
sridhar_ramneed to get back to the rest of the agenda16:27
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: thanks for the update..16:27
sridhar_rami hope we can land alarm and scaling spec soon16:27
sridhar_ramand move on to code-reviews16:27
tung_doansridhar_ram:  please take some minitues to review my specs.. Thanks16:27
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: bobh is on it ;-)16:28
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sridhar_ram#topic VNFFG --> VNFM --> networking-sfc interaction16:28
*** openstack changes topic to "VNFFG --> VNFM --> networking-sfc interaction (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:28
sridhar_rams3wong: trozet: that was a good discussion in the channel on this topic..16:28
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sridhar_ramI've capture this based on that...16:28
sridhar_ram#link http://paste.openstack.org/show/523666/16:29
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sridhar_ramFYI, for the folks interested in the VNF-FFG workflow... please take a look at the ^^ diagram16:29
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sridhar_ramtrozet: s3wong: does this flow sounds about right ?16:29
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s3wongsridhar_ram: looks good16:30
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trozetwhat is the vnffg abstract driver?16:30
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trozetoh nvm16:30
s3wongtrozet: abstract class for all drivers16:30
trozeti forgot about hte new driver16:30
s3wongtrozet: common interface for all drivers16:31
trozetshouldnt VNFM also have an abstract driver?16:31
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KanagarajMlooks reasonable ! also should we look to typing the descriptor in the catalog http://paste.openstack.org/show/523666/16:31
KanagarajMtypo ^^ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/333216/1/tacker/extensions/nfvo.py16:32
s3wongtrozet: it really should :-)16:32
sridhar_ramtrozet: i didn't get the question.. we do have abstract infra drivers.. https://github.com/openstack/tacker/blob/master/tacker/vm/infra_drivers/abstract_driver.py16:32
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trozetmaybe the diagram just doesn't show it16:33
s3wongsridhar_ram: I think trozet was talking about the diagram16:33
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sridhar_rams3wong: trozet: do you mean a VNFM abstract driver for NFVO to call ?16:34
sripriyatrozet: are you referring to the heat infra_driver?16:34
* sridhar_ram is still puzzled16:34
trozetthere is just a direct line from VNFM to heat16:34
trozeti would htink there would be abstraction there, since there is abstraction between VNFFG to it's VIM type16:35
s3wongsridhar_ram: in the diagram, between VNFM plugin and Heat infra driver, there should be an infra abstract driver layer16:35
trozeti don't mean to hold up the meeting16:35
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sridhar_ramtrozet: ah, yes, indeed.. there is an infra abstract driver as i poiinted out earlier16:35
sridhar_ramtrozet: no worries...16:36
sridhar_ramtrozet: you never know where some wrong assumptions16:36
sridhar_ramtrozet: s3wong: i'd like to get some clarity on this get_vnf_details() ...16:36
sripriyasridhar_ram: s3wong: trozet: are we introducing a new abstract driver for vnffg or will it merge with existing abstract_vim_driver?16:36
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s3wongsripriya: probably new, as the driver is specific to VNFFG16:37
s3wongsridhar_ram: yes16:37
trozetsripriya: i'm not sure yet because I haven't looked at the VIM driver16:37
sridhar_ramsripriya: i'd suggest we leave this separate and no tie w/ abstract_vim_driver16:37
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sripriyas3wong: sridhar_ram: ok16:38
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sridhar_ramget_vnf_details() in this flow, it should be any special for VNFFG .. i think it should be a generic enhancement16:38
sridhar_ramGET /vnfs/<uuid> with some flag indicating "details" should return more information about the VNF16:39
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s3wongsridhar_ram: +116:39
sridhar_ramall the heat resources created for the VNF - VDUs, CPs,16:39
sridhar_ramtrozet: what do you think ?16:40
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, +1 it would be nice enhancement.16:40
sridhar_ramcan we make that a generic enhancement and VNFFG patchsets will have dependecny on that16:40
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* sridhar_ram my typing malaise is back :(16:40
sripriyasridhar_ram: something like GET /vnfs/uuid/detail ..16:41
trozetsridhar_ram: I think it should be generic, and return VNFD logical mapping names to VNFD instance components16:41
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sridhar_ramsripriya: that would work, or even a flag in the json request body.. no hard opinion here16:42
s3wongsridhar_ram: who is going to implement the API?  :-)16:42
sripriyasridhar_ram: sure16:42
sridhar_ramtrozet: sounds good.. we can use this to do 'tacker vnf-show --details <vnf-id>'16:42
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sridhar_ramtrozet: do you have some code already in place to get such vnf-details ?16:43
sridhar_ramtrozet: do you need some help from the community on this peice16:43
trozetsridhar_ram: no code.  If someone wants to implement that it would be helpful16:44
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sridhar_ramany volunteers ?16:44
sridhar_ramjanki_: i remember you were interested in pitching in for VNFFG .. is this something you can help ?16:44
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janki_sridhar_ram: sure, was just typing that only16:45
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sridhar_ramjanki_: cool, thanks...16:45
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sridhar_ramjanki_: please keep in mind this will be blocking dependency for trozet16:45
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sridhar_ramjanki_: so, keep trozet happy :)16:46
janki_Ok, will get right to it16:46
sridhar_ramjanki_: thanks!16:46
sridhar_rami hope that diagram can be used in some vnffg-defref16:46
sridhar_rams3wong: trozet: janki_ : thanks!16:47
sridhar_rammoving on..16:47
s3wongjanki_: thanks!16:47
sridhar_ram#topic Grooming Midcycle Meetup topics16:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Grooming Midcycle Meetup topics (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:47
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, should we start to typing the descriptor in the catalog, seems it got missed over the discussions :)16:47
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openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x7f2b35c4da10>16:47
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* sridhar_ram oops16:47
janki_s3wong: my pleasure16:47
sridhar_ram#topic VNFFG16:48
*** openstack changes topic to "VNFFG (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:48
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sridhar_ramKanagarajM: can you please elaborate ?16:48
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KanagarajMsridhar_ram, we now bring anothe descriptor for the VNFFGD.16:49
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sridhar_ramKanagarajM: yes, that's correct16:49
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KanagarajMsridhar_ram, so instead of modelling it as new resource in REST, should be update the existing VNFD to be generic enough to hold the all kind of descriptor16:49
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sridhar_ramKanagarajM: no, VNFD is for VNFs... VNFFGD descriptor flows covering multiple VNFs..16:50
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sridhar_ramKanagarajM: they don't logically map16:50
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, i am not telling to directly on the VNFD,16:50
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KanagarajMsridhar_ram, instead make a VNFD as generic enough to hold VNFD, VNFFGD16:51
sridhar_ramhmm... VNFFGD is actually close to NSD descriptor than VNFD16:52
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janki_I say we keep the descriptors separate16:53
janki_a single descriptor would be long16:53
sridhar_ramthese descriptors are something we are preserving from ETSI architecture... i don't think we should overload VNFD to also include FFGD..16:53
janki_it might become difficult for new comers to grap it16:53
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sridhar_ramthe later refers to multiple VNFs16:53
janki_given almost similar short forms for the terms16:53
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, by using another attributed called 'type' this would make catalog simple16:53
KanagarajMhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/333216/1/tacker/extensions/nfvo.py i tried to comment the same16:53
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KanagarajMsridhar_ram, no... some thing like as below16:54
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sridhar_ramKanagarajM: sure.. we need to take up the topic of "NFV Catalog" evolution as a topic in our midcycle meetup16:54
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, sure.16:54
sridhar_ramlets take this offline in the channel.. or continue in the next week's call..16:55
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KanagarajMsridhar_ram, yeah.16:55
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sridhar_ram#topic Midcycle Meetup16:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle Meetup (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:55
sridhar_ram#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-newton-midcycle16:55
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sridhar_ramPlease enter your topics of interest..16:56
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sridhar_ramAlso, please respond to the following Doodle poll to pick a date in the last weekl of July..16:57
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sridhar_rampicking a time will be a challenge16:57
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sridhar_rami've suggested a time that seems equally painful for everyone (ex US east coast)16:58
sridhar_ramplease pick upto 2 slots16:58
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sridhar_ramif you have other time slots in mind or if this suggested slot doesn't work.. please give a shout out..16:59
sridhar_ram#topic Open Discussion16:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:59
sridhar_ramthanks everyone for joining today...16:59
sridhar_ramthat all the time we have16:59
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 28 17:00:14 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-06-28-16.03.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-06-28-16.03.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-06-28-16.03.log.html17:00
mmedvede#startmeeting third-party17:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 28 17:00:31 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'17:00
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mmedvedeanyone here for third-party meeting?17:01
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ja3moi, misha17:01
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mmedvedehey ja317:02
mmedvede#topic CI Watch17:03
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mmedvedeinitial puppet code to deploy ci-watch has landed17:03
mmedvede#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/238606/17:03
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mmedvedeso we now can proceed with the spec to deploy it on an infra server17:04
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asselin_hi mmedvede17:04
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mmedvedehi asselin_17:04
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asselin_hi ja317:04
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asselin_saw that patch landed. awesome17:05
mmedvedealso, related, http://ci-watch.tintri.com seems to have lost connection to gerrit stream, and shows no recent events17:05
ja3howdy asselin17:05
mmedvedeI have contacted apoorvad on email just now, hopefully it would get fixed17:06
mmedvedeIn a meantime, I have deployed a temporary instance of ci-watch at17:06
mmedvedeany questions on this topic?17:07
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asselin_should we send that to the mailing list?17:07
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mmedvedeasselin_: not sure. It is my personal instance, and I may take it down any time17:08
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mmedvedeasselin_: I want to avoid people thinking it is a permanent place17:08
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mmedvedeasselin_: you think I should still announce, even for temp?17:09
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asselin_let's wait for apoorvad's response17:09
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mmedvede#topic Common-CI Solution17:10
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mmedvedeasselin_: any updates here, or should we proceed to open discussion?17:10
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asselin_not really. upstream has moved away from using jenkins17:10
asselin_but the solution hasn't been updated yet.17:10
mmedvedehow did I forget about that?17:11
mmedvedethanks asselin_17:11
mmedvedeasselin_: I do not think it should be updated until zuul v317:11
asselin_My understanding it that 3rd party folk should wait a bit more before switching to jenkins-less solution17:11
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asselin_that said, I haven't checked if the current docs and scripts still work17:11
asselin_is zuul v2.5 used by upstream master or special branch?17:12
mmedvedeasselin_: they work for infra (zuul and nodepool part of it)17:12
asselin_Also I did hear of a bug that the latest version of jenkins gets installed which doesn't work anymore due to permissions issues.17:12
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ja3Bob has been building our CI-dev env using old zuul + the refactored puppet work, if that's what you mean by "current" docs/scripts17:13
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asselin_'current' is what's in puppet-openstackci master17:13
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mmedvedethere are quite a few open reviews17:15
mmedvede#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack-infra/puppet-openstackci+status:open17:15
asselin_I see zuul is tagged 13th months ago..so i suppose they're on the feature branch http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/zuul/17:15
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mmedvedezuul.o.o shows the exact version OpenStack infra is using17:17
mmedvedewhich is now a strange "Zuul version: 0.0.1.dev1071"17:17
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asselin_yeah, not sure what that means17:18
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mmedvedemaybe something broke in zuul version display recently17:19
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mmedvedeasselin_: I do not see any patches regarding openstackci jenkins deployment not working17:20
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asselin_cbader ran into an issue. I don't think he submitted any patches17:21
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mmedvedeok, thanks asselin_17:22
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mmedvede#topic Open Discussion17:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:22
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asselin_"The version of Jenkins that seems to work is 1.642.4.17:23
asselin_To downgrade Jenkins all you need to do is stop Jenkins and replace the jenkins.war file in the /usr/share/Jenkins directory, then restart the service.17:23
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mmedvedestrange, I have 1.651.1 working ok17:25
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cbadermmedvede: asselin_ is correct you will need to downgrade jenkins or you will need to change your jobs support the new jenkins requirements.17:25
asselin_I don't think he bisected the  last working version.17:25
asselin_cbader, what was the error/symptom?17:26
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mmedvedecbader: is it related to new security for gearman plugin? i.e. you can not pass arbitrary parameters any more, and need to predefine them?17:26
cbaderasselin_; correct17:27
asselin_that sounds familiar17:27
cbadermmedvede, asselin_, after build 1.652.1 is was added.17:28
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cbaderI backed up to 1.642.4 to fix it.17:28
BobH_1.642.1 works for me17:28
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cbaderthe latest war I could find was 1.642.417:29
mmedvedemaybe a version cap on jenkins config in puppet-openstackci is in order then17:30
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asselin_#link jenkins cap  might need to be added to here: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-jenkins/tree/manifests/master.pp#n3017:30
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asselin_#link corrected location: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-jenkins/tree/manifests/master.pp#n11417:31
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mmedvedeany takers to add the cap?17:32
mmedvede#action mmedvede to add jenkins version cap in puppet-openstackci17:33
asselin_I think we should just cap it in puppet-jenkins and keep it simple17:33
asselin_especially since jenkins is going away.17:34
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x7f2b35f96610>17:34
mmedvede#action mmedvede to add jenkins version cap in puppet-jenkins17:34
asselin_then it's just 1 line to add17:34
asselin_thanks mmedvede17:35
mmedvedeyes, should be simple and useful. Because there is definitely not going to be support added for new "secure" jenkins17:35
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asselin_either way, for 3rd party ci, most folks have security behind corp firewalls, so it's not relevant17:36
mmedvedeso it seems the latest confirmed working version is 1.651.117:37
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asselin_seems. fwiw, I never benefit from any 'features' of newer versions17:37
asselin_usually just bugs creeping in whenever there's an upgrade17:38
mmedvedethat +100017:38
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mmedvedesorry I got open discussion too early17:39
mmedvedeanything for open discussion? speak up17:39
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mmedvedeI then motion to end the meeting17:41
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asselin_nothing from me mmedvede. thanks for chairing!17:41
mmedvedethanks asselin_17:41
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mmedvedethank you all for attending17:41
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:41
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 28 17:41:56 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:41
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-06-28-17.00.html17:42
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-06-28-17.00.txt17:42
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-06-28-17.00.log.html17:42
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stevemarmeeting ping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, MaxPC, morgan, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tjcocozz, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek18:00
ayoung WOOT!18:00
stevemar#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 28 18:00:31 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
knikollahiiii o/18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
samueldmqhi all o/18:00
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stevemari wonder if dolphm is back from kung fu noodle18:01
ayoungno shaleh?18:01
stevemaragenda is here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:01
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stevemaralrighty, let's get this show on the road18:02
stevemar#topic Make oslo.messaging and caching required for keystonemiddleware18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Make oslo.messaging and caching required for keystonemiddleware (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
stevemar#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystonemiddleware/+bug/154011518:03
openstackLaunchpad bug 1540115 in keystonemiddleware "use extras to install optional dependencies" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Steve Martinelli (stevemar)18:03
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stevemarthere was a bug to use "extras" - like how we do it in keystoneauth - for the audit and caching support in keystonemiddleware18:03
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stevemarbut jamielennox brought up a good point18:03
stevemarwe highly recommend caching, so why not make it required18:04
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bknudson_why do we recommend caching? Have we done performance measurements?18:04
stevemarand audit support only needs oslo.messaging, which most services will already depend on18:04
stevemarbknudson_: of course not, but caching fixes everything (tm)18:04
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stevemarbknudson_: i believe we have caching enabled in the gate18:05
dstanekand breaks everything else :-)18:05
stevemarand even if you don't have something setup, it'll use an in-memory cache18:06
notmorganthe memory cache is terrible18:06
notmorganand needs to die.18:06
jamielennoxso we can never require that a deployment turn on caching or messaging18:06
ayoungdie cache die18:06
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jamielennoxhowever for this i think it safe to say that we recommend it all so heavily that we should just make the dependencies required to make it work always installed18:06
ayoungmessaging used for audit only, right?18:07
jamielennoxrather than have to do the pip install keystonemiddleware['cache,audit_messaging_notifications']18:07
stevemarayoung: correct18:07
dstanekstevemar: using an in-memory cache in production would be terrible if it doesn't clean up after itself; and i'm assuming it doesn't18:07
bknudson_I thought the point of oslo cache was that you could have different implementations (not just memcached)18:07
notmorgandstanek: it does. ghe issue with the in-memory cache is that multiple processes dont share18:08
notmorganand the in-memory cache cleans up [runs a for loop on the dict] on every get.18:08
dstaneknotmorgan: least common algorithm?18:08
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notmorgandstanek: tokens can be validated on one process and fail on another18:09
notmorgandstanek: for example18:09
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henrynash(eek, sorry to be late)18:09
dstaneknotmorgan: i'm more worried about absorbing all memory for the cache18:09
notmorgandstanek: so subsequent requests succeed/fail/succeed because the processes cached data18:09
stevemarhenrynash: no worries :)18:09
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dstanekunless it is bounded; only keeps last X entries18:09
notmorganbasically don't enable cache with in-memory caching as a default ANYwhere it isn't already18:09
jamielennoxunfortunately we tried to remove that and devstack suffered and we got slapped for it so we're stuck with that for a little bit18:09
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notmorganand we need to deprecate the current one18:10
stevemarjamielennox: yep18:10
notmorganif someone advocates adding in-memory cache anywhere else, i'm sorry, but no.18:10
notmorganand that being slapped for it was a massive overreaction18:10
stevemarrevert as jamie metioned: https://github.com/openstack/keystonemiddleware/commit/70a9754ae68c3eb4d5645c76f3e61052486e905418:10
ayounghow about messaging?18:10
stevemarbknudson_: so yeah, it does actually work :P18:10
stevemarbknudson_: cause the neutron gates kept timing out iirc18:11
jamielennoxayoung: so if you install audit middleware but don't install oslo.messaging it just logs everything18:11
stevemarayoung: what about it?18:11
notmorganstevemar: the fact is the gate doesn't need the in-memory cache.18:11
jamielennoxwhich is not particularly useful - and can actually be accomplished by configuring oslo.messaging that way if you're really interested18:11
jamielennoxbut i see no reason to do that, so if you want to use audit middleware you have to install oslo.messaging seperately18:12
notmorganso, if this throws thing into in-memory cache by default with audit middleware18:12
ayoungstevemar, should we require it18:12
notmorgani'm against this.18:12
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bknudson_None of this is going to affect me since we've got deployment tools.18:12
ayoungshould we require oslo-messaging, caching go bye bye18:12
stevemarayoung: doesn't hurt it18:12
jamielennoxthe question is - is it just going to be easier to make oslo.messaging a direct depenedency18:12
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jamielennoxayoung: we will want caching, we just want to use oslo.cache instead of the current thing18:13
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jamielennoxnotmorgan: against because of extra deps?18:13
stevemarjamielennox: so maybe wait until we move to oslo.cache, i don't have a timeline for that18:13
gyeeswift has their own cache implement, just fyi18:13
bknudson_moving to oslo.cache first makes more sense.18:13
jamielennoxoslo.messaging is a big dependency and audit is not that widely used18:13
jamielennoxi think the oslo.cache one is an easy yes18:14
* stevemar pokes notmorgan18:14
dstanekjamielennox: i think notmorgan is against using the in-memory cache18:14
stevemarnotmorgan: would you still be against it if we used oslo.cache18:14
notmorgani am against defaulting to the in-memory cache18:15
dstanek-2 for in-memory cache from me - i'm fine with adding the deps tough18:15
gyeejamielennox, message is not a dependency on audit middleware18:15
gyeenot a hard dependency18:15
notmorganif we add the dep we need to make sure the in-memory cache is NOT used anywhere.18:15
notmorganoslo.cache should be a hard-dep18:15
bknudson_can we have an in-memory cache that only caches a few tokens?18:15
gyeeaudit middleware can send audit to the local logs18:15
notmorganbknudson_: no. lets not even bother.18:15
ayoungOK..yes to deps on oslo cache and oslo messaging.  No to in memory.18:15
ayoungNext topic18:15
stevemarayoung: not quite18:15
stevemaryes to depends on oslo.cache, use extras for oslo.messaging18:16
notmorganthe extra deps don't really matter imo.18:16
notmorganmost everything uses oslo.messaging anyway.18:16
ayoungstevemar, I have to figure out how to map extras to RPM dependencies18:16
bknudson_Does swift use oslo.messaging?18:16
jamielennoxnotmorgan: oh, yea, dump that asap18:16
ayoungI'd rather not use extras and just force the depends18:16
notmorganayoung: "recommended"18:16
notmorganayoung: or "suggested"18:17
jamielennoxgyee: it's not a dep, but it's pretty useless without it18:17
notmorganayoung: or in RPM "required"18:17
gyeenope, swift does not use oslo.messaging18:17
notmorganayoung: extras is really only a pip thing, map it as a hard dep in the rp18:17
stevemargyee: swift doesn't everything different, quit looking at them for a comparison :)18:17
gyeejamielennox, no, you can still send audits to a log18:17
ayoungnotmorgan, ok.  THat works for this case18:17
bknudson_I would guess swift wouldn't like us adding a dependency on oslo.messaging18:17
jamielennoxgyee: why - auth_token already logs requests18:17
stevemarjamielennox: for the cadf event18:17
jamielennoxgyee: also oslo.messaging has a log driver you an use to do that18:17
gyeejamielennox, CADF formatted logs, to a separate log file18:17
notmorganbknudson_: if swift uses ksm in a deployment, installing oslo.* is already happening18:18
gyeejamielennox, oslo.messaging's log driver does not work for swift18:18
stevemaralright, next topic, i wrote the outcome in the etherpad18:18
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jamielennoxgyee: why?18:18
jamielennoxgyee: i mean - didn't i just fix that?18:18
stevemarjamielennox: moving on, and yeah, you just did18:19
stevemar#topic Should we add a "migration completion" command to keystone-manage?18:19
gyeejamielennox, swift uses proxy logger, which using systemd underneath18:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Should we add a "migration completion" command to keystone-manage? (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:19
stevemarhenrynash: ^18:19
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henrynashThere are some migrations in Newton that could (if operations continue during a rolling upgrade) leave the DB in an incorrect state during a multi-node migration18:19
henrynashE.g.: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/159650018:19
openstackLaunchpad bug 1596500 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Passwords created_at attribute could remain unset during rolling upgrade" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Henry Nash (henry-nash)18:19
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bknudson_making keystone-manage more user friendly is a good thing18:19
xekI was thinking of annotating the migrations that have to be run as part of the "migrate completion" command with a decorator that would be used in sqlalchemy migrate scripts18:19
xekif you do a normal keystone-manage db_sync, everything should work like today18:20
xekbut if you want to do a rolling upgrade, you would change this behavior by using new commands18:20
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notmorganxek: so, what is the order of ops18:20
bknudson_oh, this is rolling upgrades18:20
henrynashxek: in fact there is even a bit more than that18:20
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notmorganxek: upgrade schema, upgrade code?18:20
notmorganupgrade code, upgrade schema?18:20
notmorganwhat is the required order to handle rolling upgrades18:21
notmorganthis still isn't clear to me, before we add new things18:21
notmorganplease set the order that is expected18:21
lbragstadi feel like we tried hashing that out at the midcycle for like 5 hours last time18:21
notmorgani am against rolling upgrades without a clear target18:21
henrynashthere is at least one migration that wants to have  non-nullable column, but leabes it nullable to ensure we don’t get other errors durinr a rolliog upgrade18:21
notmorganand remain against it.18:21
jamielennoxyea, i think we would need to do a fair bit of work code side to make keystone hadnle different running database schemas to get this to work18:21
gyeewe support rolling upgrade today?18:22
notmorgangyee: no18:22
lbragstadi don't think we do18:22
henrynashyes we do18:22
notmorganhenrynash: no we don't18:22
notmorganabsolutely do not18:22
dstanekgyee: if you cross your fingers it may work18:22
notmorgancode and schema must be in sync18:22
xeknotmorgan, well, you need to upgrade the code first to get the upgrade scripts for upgrading your schema18:22
bknudson_if we have cores saying we don't then we don't, since stuff is going to be approved that breaks it.18:22
stevemargyee: we support upgrades, but not rolling ones :)18:22
notmorganif you're super lucky and do limited things it may work with old schemas18:23
gyeeright, not rolling18:23
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notmorganxek: right i mean -- are you upgrading code everywhere, then schema?18:23
notmorganxek: or is it "we make the schemas work in n-1 (or n-2) configurations"?18:23
gyeenot for sql driver anyway18:23
henrynashI am stunned…we agreed we WOULD be doing this at the summit…and I thought Steve you confirm that on IRc last week?18:23
bknudson_you could upgrade one system to the new code just to do the schema upgrade.18:23
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notmorganbknudson_: that is why i want to know the planned order - so we can ensure we're developing for the right cases.18:24
dstaneki would say flow is (additive schema change; update code everywhere; contracting schema change)18:24
stevemarhenrynash: that was the goal, but it looks like we shot ourselves in the foot with migration 10518:24
notmorganbknudson_: i'm not against rolling upgrades.18:24
xekit's not well tested yet, and I agree that there could be some braking changes, but I think it's beneficial to keep rolling upgrades in mind while reviewing, to bootstrap the process18:24
bknudson_We're going to need rolling upgrade support otherwise our cloud is going to be useless.18:24
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ayoungso...rolling upgrade is a really reaaly hard thing18:24
notmorganjust against "adding things without the plan"18:24
ayoungI think before we hit it, we would need a test that does this:18:24
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ayounglook at the current version of the code and database18:24
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jamielennoxdstanek: ++ you have to do code first otherwise you can end up with schemas newer than your code understands18:24
henrynashhaveing a migration-completion task would always be required to ensure rolling upgrades18:24
ayoungthen...upgrade one but leave the other at the old version18:24
ayoungand make sure things still run18:25
ayoungprobabl "upgrade the database"18:25
ayoungand that...I think...means no data migrations.18:25
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stevemarayoung: partially agree, i just want a test to make sure the model matches the migration18:25
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gyeeI am with notmorgan, we need clear high-level goal on rolling upgrade first18:25
ayoungjamielennox, so we always write code that *can* work with an older schema?18:25
ayoungso..what would we upgrade from and to?18:26
ayoungmitaka to newton?18:26
jamielennoxayoung: i'm pretty sure that's how this normally works, when you do a migration you need to ensure in code that there is still a path forward if the old schema is found in the database18:26
ayoungn1 to n2?18:26
xekayoung, I'm working on grenade CI, which would downgrade the code to the last stable version and check if the schema is compatible and if resources written by the newer version don't cause problems18:26
henrynashayoung: I thought we agreed we would uprade the DB (maybe in conjunction with one node’s code), then upgrade the otehr nodes to newton18:26
ayoungxek, so...what does Grenade consider as "last stable?"18:26
notmorganxek: ++ good - so the plan is "upgrade schema" and roll code ?18:26
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dstanekcan we hash this out at the mid-cycle?18:27
notmorganayoung: last release18:27
dolphmdstanek: ++18:27
lbragstaddstanek ++18:27
samueldmq_dstanek: ++18:27
rderose_dstanek ++18:27
ayoungnotmorgan, so major releases only?18:27
bknudson_what do we do until the mid-cycle? no migrations?18:27
stevemardstanek: we can argue for another 5 hours, sure :)18:27
ayoungmitaka to newton?18:27
lbragstadwe had a long discussion about this at the last cycle18:27
dolphmbknudson_: no migrations that clearly break rolling upgrade strategies?18:27
dstanekstevemar: i hope not. i'll have some thought prepared already18:27
dolphmbknudson_: additive should still be fine18:27
rderose_lbragstad: but I don't know what the plan was18:27
bknudson_ok, additive works for me.18:27
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notmorganayoung: i would never advocate otherwise. doing between other things is crazy18:27
ayoungso we need a test that runs master against Mitaka's migrations18:28
lbragstadwe pretty much came up with a list of "disruptive" schema changes18:28
dolphmxek: are you going to be at the midcycle?18:28
stevemardolphm: bknudson_ we still have henrynash's bug he reported18:28
ayoungThat needs to be part of "check"18:28
henrynashso, we are in good shape (with a simple complete-migration step) to support mitaka->newton rolling upgrades with DB first with one node, and then upgrade the other nodes18:28
xekdolphm, I'll talk with my manager18:28
stevemarhenrynash: i believe so18:28
dolphmstevemar: henrynash: the bug does not need to be resolved immediately18:29
henrynashdolphm: ++18:29
dolphmstevemar: henrynash: it's just a red flag, there's nothing broken18:29
stevemardolphm: nope, but it just leaves a hole in the plan18:29
stevemardolphm: anyway, i get what you mean18:29
henrynashdolphm: and we are about to create another hole with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/328447/18:29
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dolphmit can wait for the midcycle, at least. we need a whiteboard for this again :(18:29
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henrynashsimilar thing, wwhere we need a migration-complete task to tidy things up18:30
stevemarhenrynash: ready for your second topic?18:30
gyeestop creating them holes!18:30
stevemar#topic Domain hierarchies as an alternative to relaxing project name constraints or project hierarchical naming18:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Domain hierarchies as an alternative to relaxing project name constraints or project hierarchical naming (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:30
henrynashok, last attempt!18:30
notmorganhenrynash: domains must remain globally unique or we break api contract.18:30
henrynashso took dolphm/notmorgans suggetsions about domains18:31
henrynashnotmorgan: they do stay unique18:31
notmorganhenrynash: name wise. but i'll leave off hierarchy complaints18:31
notmorganhenrynash: and let it happen if other folks support it18:31
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notmorganas long as they stay at the top. i still will say i dislike it and it opens a LOT of security concerns18:31
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henrynashand a dependant spec of: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/334364/ (for simplicity)18:32
henrynashnotmorgan: what do you mean “on top”18:32
notmorgandomains cannot be under projects18:32
notmorgandomain->domain ok18:32
henrynashnotmorgan: ++18:32
notmorgandomain->project->domain no18:32
henrynashnotmorgan: agreded. spec confirms that18:32
notmorganand i'm going to ask for a thread analysis on adding this + UX review.18:32
ayoungso string naming on domains means we can compose domain names out of path segments?18:33
notmorganthreat analysis*18:33
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henrynashayoung: yes18:33
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jamielennoxi don't think i like this - it may just be my model but this is never how i thought domains should be used18:33
dstanekhenrynash: i've wanted this since we were discussing HMT in paris18:33
ayounghelll, I think we can get rid of projects then18:33
notmorganjamielennox: i agree with you.18:33
ayoungjamielennox, we should never have had domains18:33
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ayoungbut lets kill projects and just use domains18:33
notmorganayoung: uhm.. except projects are not named globally unique18:33
jamielennoxi mean we're going heavily down the projects everywhere path and now we kick up domain usage18:33
ayoungprojects are legacy18:33
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notmorganayoung: and domains MUST be globally uniquely named18:33
notmorganregardless of hierarchy18:34
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gyeelets just rename them back to tenants18:34
ayoungnotmorgan, that is not what I just asked18:34
dstanekjamielennox: problem is that we pushed down the wrong path for too long18:34
jamielennoxand from a UX perspective it will result in a LOT of cases where the USER_DOMAIN_ID and PROJECT_DOMAIN_ID are different and that will just confuse everyone18:34
ayoungwhat I just asked is18:34
henrynashjamielennox: well, their all just proejcts18:34
raildogyee: lol18:34
ayoungso string naming on domains means we can compose domain names out of path segments?18:34
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ayoungso if D1->D2  then the name is D1/D218:34
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ayoungname is unique, but composed out of sections18:34
stevemarjamielennox: ugh, that would not be nice if USER_DOMAIN_ID was different than PROJECT_DOMAIN_ID18:34
henrynashjamielenniox: we allow that today, you can have assignements across domains18:34
ayoungso we keep the uniqueness, but add the ability to compose18:34
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stevemarhenrynash: the number of times that is used approaches 018:35
henrynashayoung: ++18:35
jamielennoxhenrynash: you can do it today yes, but most people i talk to are surprised by that and no-one really does it18:35
notmorganjamielennox: ++18:35
bknudson_Don't you have users in ldap and projects in SQL?18:35
henrynashjamielennox: I suspect that is true18:35
jamielennoxpartially because it's a difficult workflow to even find projects in other domains to assign permissions on18:35
notmorganstevemar: i think multi-domain backends is going to get weird.18:35
ayoungjamielennox, that is because we've made a gawdoffal mess out of it18:35
notmorganbut *shrug*18:36
ayoungjamielennox, I've been asked about it 2-3 times in the last couple of weeks18:36
jamielennoxalso for every argument that domains can just be COMPANY-DIVISION-PROJECT to keep them unique - the exact same argument applies to project names18:36
notmorgani still think just simply letting other services (asking other services) to be domain aware is better than weding in more HMT things18:37
bknudson_tempest needs more multi-domain testing, and also testing with domain_specific_backends=True18:37
ayoungjamielennox, I agree, but there is the whole "you promisd not to do that"18:37
ayoungwe didn't promise, however, anything about hierarchial domains18:37
ayoungso they are still fair play18:37
jamielennoxoh god, yea, and domain specific backends would have to play into this18:37
henrynashso I guess my ask here is that provided I can work out the corner cases, are we ok conceptually and compatibility-wise with this (somcething which I  don’t think we true for either the other two proposals)18:37
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ayounghenrynash, you know you have my support.  I think we need an affirmation from dolphm and notmorgan.18:38
henrynashbut I don’t want to keep working thorugh this if we are going to blowit out the water on a conceptual bases18:38
notmorgani will not block this, i would still rather not to do hierarchical domains and just ask other projects to allow grouping of domains etc for quota18:38
notmorganthis seems like we're adding a LOT of extra cruft for supporting quota groupings etc.18:39
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ayoungnotmorgan, but you agree it does not break any of our current promises?18:39
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ayoungnotmorgan, I see it as us finally doing what we should have done in the first place18:39
jamielennoxhenrynash: i'm -1 just from a conceptual level, i don't think this is doing things the right way18:39
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notmorganayoung: if domains remain globally unique name wise -- and all current APIs return the same data18:39
ayoungwe should not have two abstractions (domains nad projects) and projects should have been hierarchical from the get go18:39
notmorganwe aren't breaking promises18:39
dolphmmy thoughts echo notmorgan's18:39
raildowe got some use cases in the last summit, like get ceilometer metrics in the hierarchy... this is something that just adding domain concept in other services will not be enoght... ++ for henrynash's idea18:39
notmorgandomains also should not be containers for VMs.18:39
lbragstadjamielennox what are the things you don't think are right?18:40
notmorganthat is specific to project(s)18:40
henrynashjamielennox: conceptually a domain is a name-space….why shouldn’t customer have more tahn one?18:40
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ayoungnotmorgan, I can accept that for now18:40
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stevemarhenrynash: they can have more than one, just another top level one18:40
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notmorganhenrynash: why does it need to be wedged under another domain?18:40
notmorganhenrynash: that is my question18:40
stevemarnotmorgan: so they get one bill?18:40
notmorganhenrynash: rather than just giving them another top-level domain18:40
notmorganstevemar: -2 for that reasoning18:41
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notmorganstevemar: :P18:41
jamielennoxlbragstad, henrynash: we've had people now for a while using things like the v3policy sample thing to do things like domain administration - i think that it is too big a conceptual leap to tell people now that domains can be used everywhere18:41
stevemar(i was just joking)18:41
henrynashnotmorgan: since otherwise it would have to unique across all other top level domains…taht just won’t work in public cloud18:41
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notmorganhenrynash: why can't it be unique?18:41
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henrynashnotmorgan: plus, we need to allow a customer’s admin to crud them without reference to the cloud admin18:41
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jamielennoxi think it will confuse everyone, and there are things like domain specific backends and users owned by domains which make this too hard to sell18:42
henrynashnotmorgan: I don’t know how to do that at the top level18:42
notmorganhenrynash: so assign a customer "admin" that has access across domains18:42
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henrynashnotmorgan: but the cloud admin would have to create each domain…..that won’t scale in public cloud18:42
notmorganhenrynash: and crm solutions can map multiple domains to a single account18:42
notmorganhenrynash: we're adding tons of cruft in keystone that is a CRM issue.18:43
bknudson_how does this work with domain-specific backends?18:43
henrynashnotmorgan: how would you avoid the cloud admin being involved?18:43
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bknudson_I haven't read the spec18:43
notmorganwouldn't you ask for another domain via the CRM solution?18:43
ayoungI could see a pattern, though, where people used a common name for projects and used domain nesting for ecerything namespacey18:44
henrynashbknduson_: don’t know, haven’t thought that bit though yet18:44
ayounglike /d1/d2/d3/pro  and /d4/d5/d6/pro18:44
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* notmorgan shrugs.18:45
stevemari think this is an example of putting the cart before the horse, we are making a lot of assumptions about how things are deployed and how operators do things. i'd prefer to wait and get feedback, like, will they actually use this?18:45
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notmorgani think dolphm and I are mostly on the same point for this.18:45
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stevemarnext topic?18:46
stevemarthe conversation has slowed down18:46
henrynashnot sure where that leves this…you saying punt?18:46
ayoungis it me?18:46
notmorgani think from a business logic standpoint, this could be automated as is. public clouds have extra mechanisms and toolchains that private clouds dont18:46
ayoungsamueldmq_, you are up18:46
notmorganand need it.18:47
samueldmq_ayoung: just waiting for topic to change18:47
stevemarhenrynash: i think you need more advocates :P18:47
notmorganbut like i said, i wont block this - i am voicing a general dislike of it, but will support as long as our APIs and prmises remain18:47
stevemarthe last 2 topics are short18:47
henrynashnotmorgan: understand18:47
jamielennoxi'm still -1 but won't fight it if overruled18:48
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gyeemy head still hurts18:48
jamielennoxi think the conceptual model is wrong18:48
ayoungstevemar, change the topic.18:48
henrynashgyee: stay of the babysham18:48
jamielennoxand every time we hack around something to get it to work we end up supporting it forever18:48
stevemari think we need buy in from ops, i want to make sure it'll be useful for someone before adding a metric ton of code18:48
henrynashstevemar: ok, fair point18:49
samueldmq_stevemar: ++18:49
stevemarhandwavey usecases are OK for smaller features :P18:49
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stevemar#topic Migrate API Ref Docs18:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Migrate API Ref Docs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:49
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stevemarsamueldmq_: ^18:49
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ayoungsamueldmq, nice work there18:49
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ayoungyou just lookinbg for reviews?18:49
samueldmqas everyone knows, we are migrating api-ref docs to our repo18:50
samueldmqI've put this to gather some love on those patches18:50
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samueldmqayoung: yes18:50
ayoungI'll start looking18:50
samueldmqit's basically migrating the docs from api-ref repo18:50
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ayoungmakes total sense.  shoulda happened yeas ago18:50
samueldmqand then followup work will include updating them/making them better18:50
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dolphmsamueldmq: it's been a couple weeks, but the patches i've looked at have been a little challenging to review because there's far more going on than just a copy paste from one repo to another18:51
samueldmqit'd be nice to get it merged, so we keep working on improving them18:51
bknudson_the gate-keystone-api-ref link should work, but it's not working on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/322131/ for some reason18:51
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dolphmand it wasn't obvious wherever i stepped in how to review the (published / built) result of the change overall18:51
stevemarbknudson_: it's old18:51
samueldmqdolphm: it's basically copy&paste and minor formatting (such as removing lots of blanklines)18:51
stevemarbknudson_: 3 weeks now18:51
dolphmstevemar: can we just recheck it then?18:52
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stevemardolphm: just just rebase18:52
ayoungdolphm, can we accept the changes in with some sort of caveat that they might have drifted from the imp? that is probably true now anyway of the old docs18:52
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samueldmqbknudson_: I will check on that with infra if ther's something wrong in our gate18:53
jamielennoxayoung: would be nicer for the first commit to just be a direct copy and then we can look at cleanups individually18:53
stevemardolphm: rebased18:53
stevemarsamueldmq: it's just an old build, they remove the results after a few days18:53
bknudson_Also, I posted comments on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/322131/ and they weren't addressed... not sure why I +1 rather than +2.18:53
stevemarbknudson_: the generated results do work18:53
* samueldmq nods18:53
ayoung This commit polish the results from the conversion and migrate the v2 docs to our repository under 'api-ref/source' directory. Missing parameters definitions were added. Polishing the generated RST files include: - Removing unnecessary blank lines; - Removing empty references. Polishing the generated RST files do not include: - Modifying their content; - Modifying file names; - Wrapping lines at the maximum of 79 chars. Updating the documentation18:53
ayoung will be done after this migration step.18:53
ayoungI think that is acceptable18:53
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ayoungneed that to pass the parser, right?18:54
samueldmqbknudson_: I will look at it, sorry had missed your comments18:54
stevemarwould the team be up for a 2 day sprint to get the API ref matching what we have in keystone-specs?18:54
ayoungstevemar, um...no18:54
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stevemari think the nova team did something similar18:55
stevemarayoung:  :(18:55
ayoung2 days polishing all of the v2 docs?18:55
bknudson_the nova team did a sprint and it works pretty well18:55
rderosestevemar: I would :)18:55
ayoungI can't justify that18:55
stevemarayoung: it would be the v3 docs and v3 "extensions" too18:55
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samueldmqayoung: mostly are v3 docs18:55
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stevemarany other folks interested?18:55
samueldmqstevemar: that'd be awesome to have18:55
bknudson_guess what -- everyone still uses v2.18:56
ayoungis there really 2 days worth of work there for the whole team>?18:56
notmorganbknudson_: it's true18:56
samueldmqI can split the migration in 2: i) move as it is (only fixing things that break) then ii) polish it (remove blank lines, etc)18:56
notmorganwe should spend time on this - it is important.18:56
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dolphmi'm happy to do reviews18:56
ayoungbknudson_, not based on RH product.  We are pushing v3 due to Federation needs18:56
ayoungand domains18:56
dolphmas long as it's not next week :P18:56
* samueldmq nods18:56
ayoung3 minutes...and a related topic...18:57
stevemardolphm: okay i'll propose one for the week after next18:57
stevemar#topic Troubleshooting Doc18:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Troubleshooting Doc (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:57
notmorganayoung: we can't only be concerned with single vendors involved in openstack we have to support all users [and this impacts end users, who are more important than specific vendors]18:57
lbragstadwhat about the week before the micycle?18:57
stevemarayoung: ^18:57
stevemarlbragstad: i'll send something out to mailing list18:57
dolphmlbragstad: that's the week steve is referring to18:57
lbragstadstevemar ++18:57
ayoungnotmorgan, just saying that "not everyone uses v2.0"18:57
stevemari'll propose a day18:57
stevemardolphm: indeed it is!18:58
ayoungstevemar, I'll be on Vacation that week18:58
stevemarayoung: perfect timing! :)18:58
gyeelets get started on dolphm's keystone doctor already! forget troubleshooting docs18:58
gyeetime to automate18:58
ayoungOK...last topic18:58
dolphmgyee: lol18:58
ayoungno need to changethe topic18:58
stevemari did18:58
ayoungTroubleshooting docs18:58
lbragstadgyee ++18:58
samueldmqayoung: 2 minutes on your topic18:58
stevemarayoung: you're up bud18:58
ayoungWe have an etherpad....what should we do next18:58
stevemar#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-troubleshooting18:59
stevemarlet's populate it and move it to docs18:59
ayoungI think that Keystone troubleshooting is the #1 intterrupt I recewive18:59
notmorganayoung: get an officially published doc18:59
lbragstadcan we make it a list of things we should check with keystone-doctor?18:59
dolphmayoung: ++18:59
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stevemarlbragstad: both can co-exist18:59
ayoungdo we want that in the Keystone tree?  And as a single doc?18:59
dolphmayoung: "why 401?'18:59
notmorganconvert to rst and get it on docs :)18:59
lbragstadstevemar cool18:59
ayoungIt seems like a very fluid18:59
notmorganayoung: or we get another repo18:59
ayoungand constantly changing doc18:59
notmorganwhich would make a lot of sense18:59
stevemarkeeping in docs is OK to me18:59
bknudson_the troubleshooting doc uses the keystone cli.18:59
ayoungcould it ... go in the specs repo?19:00
gyeelot of them can be automated19:00
ayoungI know that sounds weird, but specs always seemed like "the pre-docs" repo19:00
dolphmlbragstad: maybe file wishlist bugs tagged with "doctor" or something?19:00
stevemarwe're out of time!19:00
ayoungI wanted them on the Wiki origianlly, as that is the right degree of responsieness, but Wiki dead19:00
lbragstaddolphm yeah - that would be a good idea too19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
jamielennoxi think this make sense in docs, either call it FAQ or troubleshooting19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 28 19:00:43 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
notmorgani'd probably add a new repo for this. generally useful things like troubleshooting, howtos, officially published (moved from blogs?) docs19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-06-28-18.00.html19:00
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-06-28-18.00.txt19:00
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dolphmlbragstad: i think we're going to have more ideas for things to check than time to implement them19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-06-28-18.00.log.html19:00
fungianyone from the infra team around for another exciting weekly meeting?19:00
notmorganfungi: i'm... here-ish19:01
fungitopics proposed by nibalizer, fungi, pleia2, clarkb19:01
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fungipleia2 is conferencing though (i simply listed her on one because it's her spec)19:01
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fungiothers may be conferencing or at the tc's leadership seminar this week, so not sure what sort of crowd we're going to have19:02
Shrewsthe surly kind19:02
fungiShrews: that's every week though19:02
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rcarrillocruzo/ ish, on vaca19:02
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hasharAwaywill lurk as usual :D19:02
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fungiokay, well, let's get on with it19:03
fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 28 19:03:46 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
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fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
fungi#topic Announcements19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
fungi#info Gerrit downtime on 1 July 2016 at 20:00 UTC19:04
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-June/004463.html19:04
fungi#info Reminder: late-cycle joint Infra/QA get together to be held September 19-21 (CW38) in at SAP offices in Walldorf, DE19:04
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/QAInfraNewtonSprint19:04
fungi#info Two new infra-core reviewers/infra-root sysadmins: ianw and rcarrillocruz19:04
fungia hearty welcome to both of you! feel free to go ahead and propose changes to add yourselves to the relevant places in the system-config repo and hit me up for appropriate group additions after the meeting19:04
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rcarrillocruz\o/ thx folks!19:05
pabelangerianw: rcarrillocruz: congrats and welcome to both!19:05
fungiianw and rcarrillocruz have been helping us out for quite a while, and i'm looking forward to what they'll be able to do next19:05
AJaegerwelcome, ianw and rcarrillocruz !19:05
fungii'll get an announcement out to the mailing lists later today as well19:05
ianwlooking forward to helping out more19:06
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fungithank you both for volunteering for these additional responsibilities, and demonstrating your ability to get things done without them up to now19:06
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fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-06-21-19.03.html19:07
mrhillsmano/ btw19:07
fungipleia2 send maintenance notification for static/zuul server upgrades 20:00 utc friday july 119:07
fungithat's done (linked during our announcements a few minutes ago). thanks pleia2!19:07
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fungi#topic Specs approval19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
asselin_rcarrillocruz, congrats!19:08
fungiwhen it rains, it pours19:08
fungi#info APPROVED Priority specs cleanup/update for Newton cycle19:08
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/19:08
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fungi#topic Specs approval: PROPOSED Update Artifact Signing details (fungi)19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED Update Artifact Signing details (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/33296819:08
fungithis is mostly minor updates to account for the fact that we're no longer using jenkins, but doesn't really impact the important details of the spec itself19:08
fungi#info Council voting is open on "Update Artifact Signing details" until 19:00 UTC, Thursday, June 3019:08
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fungimostly just wanted to get it through a formal vote since it includes some adjustments like a new job node naming scheme we discussed in #openstack-infra late last week19:09
fungi(using "ci" instead of "slave" now that we no longer have jenkins slaves for our job nodes)19:09
fungi#topic Specs approval: PROPOSED Finglonger (nibalizer)19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED Finglonger (nibalizer) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:10
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/31094819:10
nibalizerthis is mostly just rehashed from last week19:10
fungilooks like this has been updated based on feedback from last week19:10
nibalizerone proposal now, with some feedback from ianw and jhesketh19:10
fungisounds good. ready to put it up for a vote?19:10
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fungii'm assuming yes19:11
nibalizeri am19:11
fungi#info Council voting is open on "Finglonger" until 19:00 UTC, Thursday, June 3019:11
fungi#topic Specs approval: PROPOSED Add wiki modernization spec (pleia2, fungi)19:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED Add wiki modernization spec (pleia2, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:12
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fungii listed pleia2 as she's the author of the spec, though i'm the primary assignee19:12
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fungithis is already underway, so just wanted to get it up for a formal vote and recorded19:12
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pabelangerI haven't looked at this one. I'll do that today19:12
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fungicool. you've got a couple days to register concerns19:13
fungiand we can always amend it later as needed too19:13
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fungi#info Council voting is open on "Add wiki modernization spec" until 19:00 UTC, Thursday, June 3019:14
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fungioh, forgot to link it19:14
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/32845519:14
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:14
fungii've updated the list in the agenda to reflect the new priorities list on the specs site, but doesn't look like we have any urgent discussion for them flagged at the moment. anybody have last-minute updates for one of these?19:14
fungiclark has a proposed priority addition too, which i'm reordering to be the next discussion topic19:14
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clarkbis that my cue?19:15
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fungi#topic Move testing of master to Xenial from Trusty (possible priority effort candidate) (clarkb)19:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Move testing of master to Xenial from Trusty (possible priority effort candidate) (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:15
fungi_that's_ your cue ;)19:16
notmorganstandby clarkb, go clarkb19:16
clarkbso ya Xenial images are being built, openstack-ansible and openstack puppet are both using it at this point19:16
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clarkbIdeally we would get everything using the default of ubuntu trusty to using xenial this cycle19:16
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inc0clarkb, on that note, we should be good to move to xenial with kolla as well19:17
clarkbThe tricky bit comes from how we want to keep testing liberty and mitaka on trusty but master/newton and future branches on xenial19:17
clarkbsince we use gearman we need to make sure that on the JJB side we register jobs on both image types19:17
clarkbthen on the zuul side we need to choose trusty or xenial based on the branch or other info19:17
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fungithere was one possibility discussed where we switch to different job names for trusty vs xenial jobs19:18
clarkbyes I pushed a change to mock that up19:18
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fungiand then filter those jobs by branch instead19:18
clarkblet me get a link19:18
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clarkb#link https://review.openstack.org/33516619:18
fungiboth solutions are ugly, so it's a matter of trying to decide which is less ugly19:18
AJaegerwhat about documentation jobs? Do we need this split there as well - or can we move them for all branches to xenial?19:18
clarkbAJaeger: in the past we have split those iirc19:19
clarkbbut I would have to read git logs to be sure19:19
fungiyeah, _if_ there are tooling specifics/dependency pins which keep your earlier branches of documentation working, we might rbeak those by stuffing them all onto xenial19:19
notmorganso i think i like the name approach, there *may* be cases we want to cross-test <master> thing to trusty as a one-off job [ever]?19:20
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clarkb335166 basically encodes the image into the job name, then in zuul we can separate them based on job name suffix. This is nice because it is very explicit and should be hard to confuse anyone over where and why their job is running there19:20
AJaegerI see little risk to doing all branches the same for documentation jobs.19:20
notmorganclarkb: ++19:20
clarkbthe potentially huge issue with that is it doubles our job count19:20
pabelangerI like 35516619:20
fungithough it doubles our job _name_ count really19:20
notmorganthe names are more flexible than matching strictly on branches.19:20
AJaegerbut indeed tricky to figure out, fungi19:20
fungiit doesn't especially increase our job _registration_ count in gearman19:21
notmorganwe do have issues with that in general as is19:21
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clarkbfungi: correct, since we would register different jobs for each image either way19:21
pabelangerI have some concerns on the regex format for matching, but we can talk about that in the review19:21
fungiwe have issues with teh job registrations in gearman, but they'd be roughly the same either way19:21
* notmorgan nods.19:21
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clarkbthe alternative which we used with precise/trusty split is to have a zuul function implicitly determine tings based on job name nad branch19:21
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fungibasically from gearman's standpoint it's a difference between ubuntu-trusty:gate-nova-pep8 and gate-nova-pep8-trusty19:22
clarkbthe nice thing about what we did with precise/trusty split is few people needed to think about the differences here and it mostly just worked19:22
clarkbbut anytime someone started changing jobs it could get a little confusing19:22
pabelangerthe only issue I see about adding node into the job name, is we'll likely hit the pip 127char limit for the interrupter. So we need to keep that in mind19:22
fungiadding jobs for anything that wasn't trusty or precise based got pretty painful19:22
fungisince you needed to update regular expressions in zuul's parameter function script and also be mindful not to accidentally reorder regex matches on jobs in the layout19:23
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jesusauri think the precise/trusty split was pretty heavy on the implicit magic, it's easy to forget that openstack_functions.py is doing things19:24
clarkbfungi: yup, but those are still the a tiny minortiy in our jobs19:24
clarkbof our 8k jobs maybe a few hundred are affected by that19:24
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fungiso it had the benefit of keeping the jjb configuration simpler but made the zuul configuration bery complex, and often resulted in an infra-root logging into zuul and digging in debug logging and gearman registrations to figure out why things weren't firing or were running on the wrong nodes or were coming back not registered19:25
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AJaegerclarkb: we're at 9763 jobs19:25
fungiwell, the vast majority of our jobs are configured by a comparatively small number of job-templates19:25
AJaegerindeed, they are19:26
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fungiso if you look at it from the perspective of job configuration surface area rather than expanded job list counts, they present a more significant proportion19:26
clarkboh it was definitely an issue, I am just wondering if all of a sudden we hvae 20k jobs if we made anythin gbetter19:26
clarkbI really dislike both options available to us but can't think of a third19:26
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AJaegera quick grep: 140 jobs and 410 job-templates are setup right now19:27
clarkbwe will be trading confusion around gearman registration with confusion over why didn't any jobs run on my stable branch or why did not jobs run on my master branch19:27
fungiprobably the biggest point using magic parameter functions has going for it is that we've done it once already so we know wher ethe warts are19:27
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fungidevil you know vs the one you don't19:28
pabelangeralso, keep in mind, we don't have NOT_REGISTERED any more. So, it will be slightly hard to debug too19:28
clarkbI think either way there will be confusion over particular corner issues19:28
clarkbpabelanger: we don't? why not?19:28
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clarkbaiui the gearman side of zuul didn't change so we should still get those regardless of using zuul launcher or jenkins19:29
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pabelangerclarkb: let me get review, but mostly because we have JJB tests in project config to do the validation now19:29
clarkbpabelanger: oh so zuul can still do it we just gate on not letting it happen19:29
fungithe thing i like the most about the job name mangling proposal is that it's easier for non-rooters to debug. when you look at a change on your project in an old branch you see what jobs ran and you can tell by job name what platform they needed to run on19:30
clarkbanyways I am happy to help implement either choice, I don't think we will be completely happy with whatever we choose so its a matter of picking one and making it work19:30
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pabelangerclarkb: ya, we just added a config flag to enable / disable it19:30
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clarkbI should probably send mail to the list to get a larger set of eyes on this then we can maybe start implementing after feedback next week19:32
fungiso anyway, i'm leaning toward job name mangling this time around instead of parameter function script doing turing-complete tasks to decide what node type to use19:32
clarkbbut I think we should consider this priority work in order to get it done this cycle19:32
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fungiyeah, i agree it needs to be added to the priority list and an ml discussion could probably help bring it to a wider audience (since we're missing a few people today)19:32
pabelangerI'm happy to help out were needed too19:33
fungito make it "officially" a priority it will need a (very small) spec submitted outlining the plan19:33
clarkbcan do that once we get a bit more feedback, there may be a completely different option here I am not considering19:34
fungiyep, agreed19:34
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fungi#action clarkb bring xenial default job transition discussion to the mailing list19:34
fungianything else on this?19:34
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clarkbnot from me19:34
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fungithanks clarkb, for getting this moving19:35
fungi#topic Bikeshed on Gerrit account name for automated release tag pushing (fungi)19:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Bikeshed on Gerrit account name for automated release tag pushing (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:35
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-06-24-14.00.html last week's release team meeting19:35
fungiin discussion with the release team about their automation goals, we weighed the pros and cons of reusing the existing proposal bot account to push release tags, or setting up a separate gerrit account for a release bot so we could limit blanket tag permissions to that19:35
fungithe account name we came up with is "OpenStack Release Bot <infra-root@openstack.org>" where the e-mail address matches the one i used in our artifact signing key19:35
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fungi#link http://p80.pool.sks-keyservers.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x64DBB05ACC5E7C28&fingerprint=on&exact=on artifact signing key for newton cycle19:35
fungithe credentials for the account would be puppeted from hiera, as usual, and in thos case would only get used by the signing.ci.openstack.org job node19:35
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:artifact-signing+status:open changes to add signing.ci.openstack.org19:36
pabelangerlooks great19:36
fungijust wanting to make sure there were no significant objections to that idea before i go create the gerrit account and add puppeting to install its ssh key and whatnot19:37
nibalizeryah seems fine19:37
fungithe current change stack doesn't add that yet since it was outside the scope of the artifact signing spec19:37
clarkbfungi: people will expect there to be bot code somewhere :) but name is fine19:38
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fungiyeah, we at one point a while back decided that gerrit accounts used by automation would have "bot" in their names19:38
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fungiin retrospect that has caused some people to assume there is an actual robot with articulated servo-operated appendages typing at the other end of the line or something, i guess19:39
persiaThe servomechanisms are virtualised.19:39
fungiright. maybe it just causes them to assume there's a single codebase which performs all the functions they see manifested on the surface as whatever the account name is19:40
fungianyway, i'm not too concerned about that. we're usually pretty quick to explain that buance to people19:40
fungier. nuance19:40
fungimy fingers are off today. must be a malfunctioning servo19:40
clarkbya I think people expect they can run a single process and magically have signed releases :) but ya not a huge deal19:41
fungisounds like no objections, so i'll move forward with it and let people scream later if it turns out they didn't like my choice19:41
fungi#topic Open discussion19:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:41
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fungii know inc0 and mrhillsman had an interest in talking about the new osic resources some more?19:42
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inc0yeah, soo19:42
fungimaybe finish fleshing out a plan to bring them online in nodepool?19:42
nibalizeri put a feeler out on the infra-list thread about the midcycle trying to figure out what the topics are19:42
inc0we want to deploy openstack for infra, but we want to re-deploy it every now and then19:42
funginibalizer: saw that--great idea19:42
nibalizerso anyone with feelings on what topics should get worked on, would love some feedback19:42
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nibalizer(im on the fence for attending)19:42
inc0that means, we need good way to quickly bootstrap whatever you guys needs on fresh openstack19:42
inc0#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-redeploy-notes19:43
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nibalizerinc0: notably, we are not all guys19:43
* fungi is a meat popsicle19:43
clarkbrcarrillocruz: any gut feeling on whether or not we will have servers in a useable state mid september for the mid cycle?19:43
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rcarrillocruzI think infracloud and finglonger+automated infra deployments would be good imho19:43
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rcarrillocruzI assume so19:43
inc0my bad guys, gals, better-not-to-tell and popsicles of various substance19:43
clarkbrcarrillocruz: when is the move happening?19:43
rcarrillocruzLast I heard the move of racks will be end of July19:43
clarkbrcarrillocruz: and a month or so is enough time for them to figure out networking again and passwords on ilos?19:44
inc0rcarrillocruz, pardon my ignorance, could you please tell what infracloud and finglonger is?19:44
pabelangerI haven't dug into infracloud in the last 10 days. I was hoping to do so this week19:44
rcarrillocruzFinglonger you better ask nibalizer to link you19:45
fungiwe actually have specs (one approved, priority; one proposed for approval this week) on them both, but quick summaries might be nice19:45
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rcarrillocruzInfracloud is hw donated by HPE to run our own cloud provider19:45
inc0also, we can help you guys write any code or whatever is needed19:45
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/infra-cloud.html Infra-cloud spec19:45
fungi(for reference)19:45
rcarrillocruzSorry if I cannot link you, typing from phone19:45
inc0rcarrillocruz, well, we will deploy openstack19:45
inc0so you'll get this part covered19:46
inc0what I'd need is automated "clean openstack to infra-compatible tenants and stuff"19:46
rcarrillocruzHard to tell clarkb, past experience is not on our side19:46
nibalizerrcarrillocruz: indeed19:46
fungi#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-infracloud/ Infra-cloud primary Puppet module19:47
fungi(also for reference)19:47
nibalizerrcarrillocruz: will you go to the midcycle?19:47
clarkbrcarrillocruz: if thats the case should we plan on doing that work during the midcycle? that is what I am trying to figure out19:47
nibalizerbecause if infra-cloud fell through, and we just hacked on finishing puppet-apply that would be worht it for me19:47
clarkbrcarrillocruz: set some reasonable expectations so that people don't fly around the world for that hten find out it can't happen because raisins19:47
rcarrillocruzinc0: let's sync up next week on that initial cloud bootstrap19:47
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inc0rcarrillocruz, sure, I'm usually on #openstack-infra chat so ping me whenever you have info19:48
rcarrillocruzI will try to go, dependa o19:48
pabelangernibalizer: I haven't submitted my travel request for midcycle either. waiting to hear what topics we'll be focusing on too19:48
fungiin the meantime, we can definitely still work through manual bits19:48
rcarrillocruzOn budget19:48
fungircarrillocruz: thanks for showing up!19:48
fungihave a good remainder of your holiday19:48
inc0yeah, we can go manual and just automate it later19:48
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fungibut it definitely sounds like your goals and ours (with infra-cloud automated deployment) may be compatible19:49
inc0anyway, could we get your eyes on etherpad so we'll at least figure out potential issues?19:49
inc0yeah, seems like it19:49
fungiinput from clarkb and nibalizer would probably be good since they've done new environment turn-ups in nodepool recently-ish i think19:49
clarkbbasically the best experience on our end IMO is the public cloud model19:50
inc0yeah, I'd guess19:50
clarkbInfrastructure as a service works best if I don't have to care about hte infrastructure19:50
inc0we care about infrastructure19:50
clarkbthe bluebox model of semi managed semi not here have half an admin is more work on things that we don't really care about I don't think19:50
inc0what we need is to setup and re-setup anything on top of clean openstack19:51
clarkbif you can hand us account credentials with networking already configured for sanity (eg provider networks) then we just point nodepool at it and we are done19:51
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inc0clarkb, yeah, that won't change, but I think potential issue was to setup mirror for images and stuff19:52
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inc0we can just try and figure it out as we go...19:52
clarkbthats not a big deal, we do that on our end with every other cloud and takes a few minutes19:52
inc0so I guess "figure it out as we go" it is?19:52
inc0fair enough19:53
pabelangerYa, just tested it last week. No problems launching a mirror19:53
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inc0cool, we'll get back to you then when we have hardware up and running19:53
clarkbpabelanger: which cloud?19:53
pabelangerclarkb: tripleo-test-cloud-rh219:53
clarkbah cool19:53
pabelangerused launch-node.py, worked19:54
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fungiyeah, since the mirror servers are basically stateless, cookiecutter web server frontends to afs, there's not much to it i guess19:54
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fungiand we're at time19:59
fungithanks everyone!19:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 28 19:59:31 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-06-28-19.03.html19:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-06-28-19.03.txt19:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-06-28-19.03.log.html19:59
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olaphthanks fungi!19:59
fungiREMINDER: no technical committee meeting this week19:59
notmorganfungi: awwww ... ok i'll just lurk here instead :P20:00
edleafecrap - what am I going to do for the next hour? ;-)20:00
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* olaph hands notmorgan a partially dead carp20:07
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notmorganrockyg: i... what are you implying edleafe should be doing?20:10
notmorganrockyg: because... toiletpapering the channel seems childish :P ;)20:10
notmorganolaph: gross.20:10
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olaphnotmorgan: thems good eatens20:11
notmorganolaph: "partially dead"20:12
notmorgani don't want to eat partially dead animals, i want my food all dead :P20:12
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rockygnotmorgan, Cretin!20:13
olaphit's all in the presentation20:13
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rockygnotmorgan, also, edleafe said he wanted to crap, didn't he?20:14
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notmorganrockyg: lol20:14
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edleaferockyg: I was gonna crap all over this meeting!20:15
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rockygedleafe, please use the tp I provided...20:15
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edleaferockyg: no meeting, no need for tp...20:16
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oneswigShall we get the show on the road?21:01
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oneswigMorning b1airo take it away21:01
b1airo#startmeeting scientific-wg21:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 28 21:01:54 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is b1airo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'21:01
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b1airo#chair oneswig21:02
openstackCurrent chairs: b1airo oneswig21:02
oneswig#topic roll-call21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "roll-call (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:02
oneswighi everyone!21:02
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julian1Hi oneswig!21:02
b1airo#topic Agenda21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:03
oneswig#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_June_28th_201621:03
b1airo-----HPC / Research speaker track at Barcelona Summit21:03
b1airoSpread the word!21:03
b1airoReview of Activity Areas and opportunities for progress:21:03
b1airoBare metal21:03
b1airoParallel filesystems21:03
b1airoAccounting and scheduling21:03
b1airoUser Stories21:03
b1airoOther business21:03
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oneswigNice, thanks b1airo21:04
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oneswigLets get started21:04
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oneswig#topic HPC/Research speaker track at Barcelona21:05
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b1airotell your friends!21:05
oneswigAfter the track at Austin we get a thumbs up to run again21:05
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oneswigI am interested to know what people thought was missing from the content in Austin?21:06
trandlesyay!  I enjoyed the HPC/Research track as it brought together a lot of us with common interest.  I think that ability to focus the community was missing in past summits.21:07
oneswigI wish we'd had a talk covering Lustre/GPFS for one21:07
oneswigThanks trandles, agreed21:07
oneswigGot another talk in you Tim?21:07
trandlesI think so.  Working on titles and abstracts now.21:08
oneswigGreat!  Deadline was 13 July IIRC21:08
trandlesgetting approval for foreign travel is the difficult part21:08
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b1airodid we ask whether you're attending SC trandles ?21:09
oneswigin last week's discussion (EMEA time zone) an email was being drafted that people might be able to circulate in other forums21:09
trandlesI'll +1 the lack of a lustre/GPFS talk.  There have to be user stories around provisioning infrastructure in a scientific context that we're missing.21:10
blakecTutorial and instructional content seemed to be missing from HPC track in Austin21:10
oneswigHopefully, we can help people with a template for spreading the word21:10
trandlesblairo: I don't have plans for SC this year21:10
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blakeci.e. optimizing nova for HPC workloads21:10
oneswigblakec: step-by-step this is how I did it kind of stuff? +121:10
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blakecCorrect, even very entry level content... As Summit grows I suspect those talks have a wider audience21:11
trandlespulling blakec's tutorial thread, a lessons learned from someone like Pittsburgh where they're deploying HPC using OpenStack would be very nice21:12
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trandlesduring the Austin WG planning session, the ironic breakout basically turned into just that, Robert fielding questions about lessons learned with Bridges21:12
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oneswig#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/hpc-research-circulation-email Lets put together some points that can be shared to raise the HPC/Research speaker track profile21:13
b1airoagreed re. lessons learned21:13
oneswigIf you're on other lists or groups, please consider mailing around to spread the wrod21:13
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b1airoi'm interested to know if people are actually optimising openstack (e.g. nova) or just the hypervisor and then making use of lesser known hypervisor features that can be exposed through nova21:14
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oneswigOur first order efforts at optimisation are all around SRIOV and RDMA for Cinder21:15
oneswigBut we're just getting going really21:15
b1airowhat sort of optimisation are you looking at with sriov oneswig (other than using it) ?21:16
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oneswigJust using it basically... We keep a VF in the hypervisor for Cinder and pass through the rest21:17
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oneswigI would be really interested in a discussion at the summit that brings together some of the recent conversations on the EMEA side wrt combining Nova resource reservations (Blazar) with preemtible instances.  Seems far out but really interesting as a long-term goal21:19
b1airoright, i suspect other common hypervisor tunings such as cpu/mem pinning and numa topology probably make a reasonable bit of difference there too, but we haven't done any work to quantify that yet (been focused on cpu and memory performance mainly)21:20
b1airo+1 to e.g. blazar and opie21:20
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oneswigHow could we help that happen?21:21
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b1airoat this stage i imagine it'd be more a matter of gathering supporters21:22
oneswigAgreed I suspect any talk that isn't purely hot air in this area may be two summits away...21:22
b1aironot likely to be anyone using it in the wild expect a few folks working on the dev21:22
oneswig(Plus there is the question of feasibility)21:22
kyaz001hi guys, Khalil just joining21:23
oneswigHi Khalil, we were discussion the HPC speaker track for Barcelona21:24
b1airobut having a lightening talk from some devs about how it works and fits in would be cool21:24
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oneswigb1airo: good idea, a session on future tech and wish-lists perhaps21:24
kyaz001apologies for being tardy... do we have a list of topics?21:24
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b1airokyaz001, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_June_28th_201621:25
oneswigShall we move on to activity areas?21:26
oneswig#topic Bare metal21:26
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oneswigI'm interested in following the developments re: serial consoles in Ironic but have not got involved yet.21:27
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oneswigIt's on my radar.  Anyone using it?21:27
trandlesI'm about to make an attempt at using it21:27
b1airoi'm just hoping to get some resourcing for us to start playing with ironic later in the year21:28
oneswigThrough Ironic or side-band?21:28
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trandlesI have serial consoles working side-band but want to swap it for ironic eventually21:28
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oneswigSame here, would be a great help to have it all under one umbrella21:29
oneswigWhat other areas of activity are WG members interested in wrt bare metal?21:30
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dfflanderswould be good to have Chameleons opinion on this re baremetal as a service to researchers.21:31
oneswigdfflanders: good point21:31
trandlesI'm interested in bare metal scalability issues but don't yet have a tested large enough to push the boundaries21:31
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oneswigWe have a problem I'd like to fix at the Ironic level: our NIC firmware seems to get upgraded awfully often.  I'm wondering how we might use the Ironic IPA ramdisk to do this for us to keep the deployment nice and clean21:32
trandleswe will have some large clusters retiring in the next ~12-18 months though and I hope to get some time with the hardware before it goes out the door21:32
trandles~2000 nodes21:33
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oneswigThat's an awful lot for Ironic to pick up in one go!21:33
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trandlesbut it's a chance to identify problem areas21:34
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oneswigI recall Robert saying there were deployment races between Nova and Ironic that limited him to deploying small numbers of nodes at a time - and he's got ~800 nodes IIRC21:35
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oneswigtrandles: how long will you have?21:35
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trandlesit varies a lot21:36
trandlesif there's no immediate demand for the floor space (and power, and cooling...) I could have several months21:36
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b1airooneswig, have you reviewed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/host-state-level-locking ?21:37
oneswigtrandles: I assume this is on-site and somewhat restricted but I'm sure I'd be interested to hear21:37
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trandlesI'll keep it on the radar when decommissioning talk gets started21:37
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oneswigb1airo: not seen that but it sounds quite fundamental.  My understanding of python's global interpreter lock and concurrency model fall short of this but I'm surprised that threads in python can preempt one another at all21:39
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oneswigThinking of actions, we've shared some interests here and found some in common.21:42
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oneswig#action trandles b1airo oneswig we should keep in touch if we get underway with ironic serial consoles21:43
kyaz001can you summarize the area of interest?21:43
oneswigkyaz001: Right now we are looking at the bare metal area of activity, looking at incoming developments21:43
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oneswigMany new capabilities in this area, many of which are interesting to many people on the WG21:44
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oneswigWe ought to crack on, time's passing21:45
oneswig#topic parallel filesystems21:46
*** openstack changes topic to "parallel filesystems (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:46
oneswigAlas I've not seen much go by in this area but I had one thought21:46
oneswigIs anyone in the WG interested in putting up a talk on Lustre or GPFS for the speaker track?21:46
b1airowe could probably do one21:47
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oneswigI think one of the principal guys at Cambridge might be able to share a combined Lustre / GPFS talk21:48
b1airothough i'd make that dependent on getting one of my colleagues to work on the lustre bits21:48
b1airothat's an idea21:48
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oneswigThe timezones would be a killer for planning but I think Cambridge could cover the Lustre side - and we'd get a benchmark bake-off :-)21:49
b1airotwo quick tours of a HPFS integration and then maybe an open Q&A21:49
oneswigI'll check and report back.21:49
blakecWe (ORNL) could contribute to the Lustre side as well.21:50
b1airohas some promise and judging from the wg sessions in Austin would be very relevant21:50
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oneswigGreat, let's note that21:51
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trandleslikewise someone at LANL is looking at deploying GPFS using openstack21:51
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oneswig#action b1airo blakec oneswig trandles to consider options for Lustre/GPFS talk proposal21:51
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b1airoblakec, your experience is with integrating Lustre and Ironic based compute, or have you done hypervisor based compute too?21:53
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oneswigTime for one more topic?21:54
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oneswig#topic accounting and scheduling21:55
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blakecWith hypervisor - we have multiple Lustre networks (TCP for VMs, and IB for bare metal). No sriov21:55
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b1airoblakec, but all talking to the same filesystem/s i take it?21:56
blakecyes, that's correct21:56
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b1airosounds interesting21:56
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oneswigMy colleague in Cambridge has responded with interest re: HPC filesystem talk proposal, lets follow up on that21:57
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oneswigWe've already covered much of the recent discussion on scheduling, was there anything from WG members in this area?21:58
b1airoabsolutely - good iea oneswig21:58
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oneswigb1airo: thanks21:58
oneswigTime's closing in21:58
oneswig#topic AOB21:58
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oneswigany last-minute items?21:58
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trandlesyes please21:59
oneswigSounds ideal!21:59
oneswigHi julian122:00
b1airostayed up way late gathering mellanox neo debug info :-/22:00
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oneswigyou too? :-)22:00
julian1Hey oneswig!22:00
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oneswigTime to wrap up / brew up - thanks all22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 28 22:01:38 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-06-28-21.01.html22:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-06-28-21.01.txt22:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-06-28-21.01.log.html22:01
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b1airojulian1, was that a question for oneswig ?22:01
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julian1blairo: No I was indicating interest in coffee.22:03
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b1airoahh :-)22:03
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b1airoexcellent, i wish you well in that pursuit then. speaking of which, my machine is hot. till next time!22:04
oneswiglater b1airo!22:04
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