Tuesday, 2016-11-15

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov 15 03:01:17 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:01
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-11-08_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:01
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:01
mkraiMadhuri Kumari03:01
shubhamsShubham Sharma03:01
hongbinThanks for joining hte meeting eliqiao Namrata mkrai Wenzhi shubhams pksingh kevinz03:02
eliqiaoEli Qiao03:02
hongbin#topic Announcements03:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)"03:02
hongbin1. Zun is going to have a PTL election03:02
hongbin#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/107010.html03:02
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hongbinI am going to submit my candidacy soon03:02
hongbinAfter the PTL is elected, I will submit an application to join the big-tent03:02
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eliqiao+1 for hongbin03:03
shubhamsThats great03:03
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hongbinThen, we become officially openstack project :)03:03
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hongbin#topic Review Action Items03:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)"03:03
hongbin1. hongbin create a bp for adding support for secure container (DONE)03:03
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-secure-container03:04
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hongbinmkrai: i assigned it to you, since you looks interesting to work on this03:04
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pksinghhongbin: will be using hyper or clear containers?03:04
hongbinmkrai: do you have time to take it?03:04
mkraiOk thanks I will work on it03:04
hongbinpksingh: depend on mkrai :)03:05
mkraipksingh: clear container as of now03:05
pksinghhongbin: mkrai: if i can help that would be greate03:05
mkraisure pksingh. Thanks03:05
pksinghhongbin: ok03:05
hongbinmkrai: pksingh : sure. for big bp, i encourage us to pair up03:05
hongbinsince the work is big, so two people is better03:06
hongbin2. hongbin create a bp for k8s integration (DONE)03:06
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/k8s-integration03:06
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hongbinI need a volunteer for this one03:06
shubhamsI would love to be03:07
hongbini set the bp to highest priority since it is frequently requested by people03:07
pksinghpksingh: i can pair up with subham03:07
mkraiI can help too03:07
hongbinshubhams: ack03:07
shubhamsthanks pksingh mkrai03:07
eliqiaosign up for helping reviewing too.03:07
mkraiThis one will need lots of discussion03:08
hongbinshubhams: pksingh mkrai : i will assign it to shubhams , but he don't need to do all the work03:08
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shubhamsmkrai: I agree03:08
mkraihongbin: cool03:08
hongbinyes, it would be great if we have 3 people for that.03:08
pksinghhongbin: mkrai shubhams we can pair up :)03:09
shubhamshongbin: Sounds good to me03:09
hongbinshubhams: i rely on you to coordinate the work with mkrai and pksingh :)03:09
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shubhamshongbin: You can be assured03:09
hongbinshubhams: i am going to add this to the weekly team meeting agenda03:09
shubhamshongbin: ack03:09
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hongbinthat means i expect any of you to report the status of this bp to the team every week03:10
hongbinis it ok for you guys?03:10
pksinghhongbin: ok for me03:10
mkraiYes +103:10
shubhamsworks for me03:10
hongbin#action hongbin add k8s bp to weekly meeting agenda03:11
hongbinok, let's move on03:11
hongbin#topic Support interactive mode (kevinz)03:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Support interactive mode (kevinz) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:11
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode The BP03:11
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396841/ The design spec03:11
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hongbinkevinz: :)03:11
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kevinzI'm thinking about when zun-compute and client are not in the same node03:12
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kevinzI've tried and this method works03:12
pksinghkevinz: client means, zun-client?03:12
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hongbinkevinz: maybe you could briefly explain what you already did so far03:13
kevinzI will modified the spec according to hongbin and shubhams' comments03:13
hongbinkevinz: then, explain what is missing and what you are going to work on03:13
kevinzhongbin: in the spec?03:13
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hongbinkevinz: yes, briefly explain the approach you proposed in the spec03:14
kevinzhongbin: OK03:14
kevinzno problem03:14
hongbinkevinz: since not everyone have reviewed the bp so far, so it is better to give a briefing first03:14
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kevinzOK. I plan to refer to the library, dockerpty03:15
hongbin#link https://github.com/d11wtq/dockerpty03:15
kevinzWe can create the stdin stdout stderr to connect to the docker tty03:16
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kevinzdocker tty is easy to create when we pass the parameters tty=True and stdin_open=True ,when creating container03:16
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kevinzThen in python-zunclient, use stdin stdout stderr to connect the docker tty we will get a pesudo tty03:18
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hongbinkevinz: get that03:19
kevinzBut dockerpty doesn't satisfied all our request, so I will refer to this to re-write the code03:19
sudiptoThis is good solution when you have the zunclient residing on the same machine as the one running the docker container...03:19
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pksinghsudipto: +1,03:19
hongbinsudipto: you stated the key problem :)03:19
pksinghkevinz: how over rest api? do we need some hijacking of http?03:20
hongbini believe kevinz is working on solving this problem03:20
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sudiptowe may have to devise a way to redirect the output to a console.log or a sttderr.log and then read that file remotely... (thinking the VM analogy)03:20
kevinzYeah ,another method is refering to how Nova deal03:20
sudiptohongbin, yeah i stated the obvious :)03:21
pksinghi think kubectl client for k8 does the same, we can look there if anyone knows golang03:21
kevinzsudipto: pksigh: dockerpty also can work and connect remote docker daemon03:22
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hongbini don't think zun allowed python-zunclient to connect to docker daemon directly03:22
hongbinif users have to connect to docker deamon, it must go through the zun api03:23
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kevinzhongbin: Then I think nova console give the good method03:23
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eliqiaomean another service to do FWDing?03:24
kevinzwill get a redirection03:24
eliqiaohmm... I kinds doubt that the interactive mode.03:24
eliqiaocontainer's differnet with VM. no need too much login operation on containers.03:25
pksingheliqiao: +103:25
hongbinhmm, let's discuss it.03:25
eliqiaojust my 2 cents.03:25
kevinzwe can use a method to auto connect the redirection link?03:26
hongbinsudipto: i think you also have doubts on the interactive mode as well?03:26
kevinzjuse link a project "https://github.com/larsks/novaconsole" does03:27
sudiptohongbin, no doubts about interactive mode. It all depends on what you want to achieve with it. I agree with eliqiao that there's not much of an interaction really needed with containers. However I do see the logs being important.03:27
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eliqiaohongbin: I am not strong disagree with it. just don't want us to waste more time on it if it's hard to implement it.03:27
hongbineliqiao: get that03:28
hongbinsudipto: ack03:28
hongbinkevinz: i think sudipto & eliqiao  gave an important suggestion03:28
hongbinkevinz: then, you can first investigate the feasibility to implement this feature03:29
sudiptoif you want to allow interactive mode, we may have to look at something like a vncclient03:29
kevinzhongbin: OK03:29
hongbinkevinz: if it turns out to be hard to implement, let's bring it back to the team to discuss03:29
hongbini think interactive mode might be good from user experience point of vie03:29
kevinzhongbin: Yeah for user it really important experience03:30
hongbinbut, it might not be so important, we can consider it as an optional feature03:30
kevinzOK I will continue investigating this03:30
hongbinkevinz: thanks03:30
hongbinany other question regarding to this topic?03:31
kevinzmy pleasure03:31
sudiptoThe interactive mode sort of falls under the attach and exec discussions as well, no?03:31
hongbinsudipto: yes03:31
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hongbinok, move on03:32
hongbin#topic Container image store (mkrai)03:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Container image store (mkrai) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:32
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/glance-integration The BP03:32
hongbinmkrai: ^^03:32
mkraiI have implemented the last patch to store image in glance when we pull from docker03:32
mkraiBut there is some issue storing the image in glance03:33
mkraiI am looking at it and will post the patch by today eod03:33
hongbinmkrai: what are the issues?03:33
mkraiAfter this patch, we can mark this bp complete03:33
mkraierror reading data from http response object03:34
hongbini see03:34
mkraiI tried it outside zun and it worked well03:34
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mkraiBut not sure why isn't it working inside zun03:34
hongbinmkrai: just let us know if you need help for that03:35
hongbinmkrai: in general, the glance integration is almost finish, which is a good progress03:36
hongbinthanks mkrai and shubhams and all others for the hard work03:36
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pksinghyes mkrai and shubhams did great work :)03:37
hongbinok, next topic03:37
hongbin#topic Container network (hongbin)03:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Container network (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:37
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/neutron-integration The BP03:37
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365754/ The proposed spec (merged)03:37
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/380646/ The patch03:37
hongbinThe link above is the patch, which implement a complete soluation03:38
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hongbinhowever, it looks the patch is too large, so i am going to split the patch into several03:38
mkrai_Sorry got dc. I will continue in open discussion03:38
hongbinthis is the first split-out patch03:39
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396896/03:39
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hongbini am going to do this step-by-step03:39
hongbinfirst, implement sandbox without nova03:39
hongbinsecond, i am going to add another driver (called novadocker), which uses nova to implement the sandbox03:40
hongbinthrid, duplicated the first docker driver (tbd)03:40
mkrai_hongbin: this will implement the nova-integration bp as well. Right?03:40
hongbinmkrai_: no, nova integration is a different bp03:41
hongbinmkrai_: the nova integration bp is for using nova api to connect to zun03:41
mkrai_he novadocker driver will include the work I guess03:41
hongbinmkrai_: this bp is for using novadocker as a coe03:41
reediparmax : Just got your message(reedip: if you can unblock https://review.openstack.org/#/c/393011/, that would be great) , will do this03:41
hongbinmkrai_: ??03:42
mkrai_we can use the same driver for creating containers03:42
hongbinok, i need to explain that03:42
mkrai_Thanks that will be great03:43
hongbinfor sandbox proposal, we use nova (with docker virt driver) to provision sandbox03:43
hongbinfor nova integration, i guess it is for implementing a virt driver that connects to zun03:44
hongbinit will be a zun virt driver03:44
mkrai_Ok I will look at your patch to understand this03:45
Namratai will also have a look03:45
mkrai_It seems bit confusing to me and I will get back to you in case of any concern03:45
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hongbinthen, let's move on03:46
hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:46
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mkrai_I want to discuss about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395552/03:46
mkrai_This bp has 'image search' API03:46
mkrai_In docker, the search returns image with matching string03:47
mkrai_And thats seems correct. But I think there should also be option to search exact image name03:47
mkrai_Also search image with tag also03:47
mkrai_which currently docker lacks03:48
mkrai_So how do team want zun search to work like?03:48
hongbinmkrai_: as i commented in the patch, i think it is a good idea to have an option like --exact03:48
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hongbinmkrai_: this option will search image by exact name03:49
pksinghhongbin: +103:49
lakerzhouHi there, we (lenovo) are actively looking to work with openstack container project. we might have two engineers planning to join ZUN. Is there particular bugs/blueprint that we can start with.03:49
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mkrai_Ok sounds good to me. I will update the patch03:49
shubhamshongbin: should this option be exposed to users ?03:49
hongbinmkrai_: for tag, i am not sure, maybe you could have another option03:49
mkrai_shubhams: yes03:50
hongbinshubhams: yes :)03:50
pksinghmkrai_: one more suggestion, url should be /image/search?name=xyz,exact=true03:50
mkrai_hongbin: we can add filters also but currently docker doesn't have this option03:50
hongbinlakerzhou: good to hear that03:50
pksinghhongbin: what do u think?03:50
mkrai_pksingh: our REST APIs have been implemented this way03:50
hongbinmkrai_: pksingh not sure right now, need to look into it03:51
mkrai_pksingh: I am ok with the current format03:51
mkrai_pksingh: Can you tell me the reason for this change?03:52
pksinghmkrai_: i think current is /image/name/search?03:52
mkrai_pksingh: yes03:52
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hongbinlakerzhou: i will work with you to figure it out03:52
pksinghmkrai_: what i think, search always work this way, am i right?03:53
pksinghmkrai_: you search anything in a collection by query?03:53
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pksinghmkrai_: no hard line from me, just a suggestion03:54
mkrai_pksingh: yes agree.03:54
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mkrai_I don't think it is feasible to change just one API03:54
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mkrai_Other APIs are designed this way for ex /containers/{ID}/logs etc03:55
pksinghmkrai_: you can, just pass key=value to search method03:55
lakerzhouHongbin, I was disconnected, maybe I missed something. Do you have any recommendations for starters?03:56
pksinghmkrai_: but for them we know the ID, right and we also know that they exist in collection03:56
hongbinlakerzhou: i will work with you offline to figure it out (i don't have a list right now)03:56
mkrai_We need to change the routing then03:56
pksinghmkrai_: either way is ok, just conveying the way docker and goole search api works03:56
pksinghmkrai_: i dont think so my patch for 'zun run' works with query parameter03:57
lakerzhouThanks a lot. Hongbin. I will join zun irc channel more often.03:57
pksinghmkrai_: and delete also takes force=true in query?03:58
mkrai_pksingh: It will work03:58
mkrai_What param do you need to pass to run?03:58
hongbinlakerzhou: thanks for your interests to contribute to zun, looking forward to work with you in the future03:58
pksinghmkrai_: we can discuss later, i am ok with both the ways03:59
mkrai_pksingh: And the endpoint?03:59
hongbinok, time is up03:59
mkrai_pksingh: Ok sure03:59
hongbinoverflow on zun channel03:59
hongbinall, thanks for joining hte meeting03:59
mkrai_Thanks all!03:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:59
pksinghthanks all :)03:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov 15 03:59:31 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-15-03.01.html03:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-15-03.01.txt03:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-15-03.01.log.html03:59
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mkrai_lakerzhou: Hi04:05
mkrai_Can you come over to #openstack-zun?04:05
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mkrai_lakerzhou: You can take this bp https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/basic-container-scheduler04:06
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yanyanhu#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov 15 13:00:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
yanyanhuhi, Qiming13:00
yanyanhuhi, lixinhui13:01
yanyanhulets wait for a while for other attenders13:01
lvdongbinghi, all13:01
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yanyanhuhi, lvdongbing13:01
yanyanhuhello, elynn :)13:02
yanyanhuok, lets start13:02
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yanyanhuhere is the agenda, please feel free to add items13:02
yanyanhuhi, XueFeng13:03
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yanyanhuok, first topic is ocata work items, as usual13:03
yanyanhu#topic ocata work item13:03
*** openstack changes topic to "ocata work item (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:03
yanyanhuperformance test, no progress13:03
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yanyanhuwill consider to move it back to TODO list since may don't have time to work on it in short time13:04
yanyanhuHealth management13:04
Qimingwondering we can have someone from CMCC work on it13:04
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yanyanhuQiming, that will be great13:04
yanyanhumaybe we can talk with junwei about it?13:05
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QimingJunwei told me that he will consider this, but we have to check with him13:05
yanyanhuthe basic support has been there, just need to add more context and scenario support13:05
yanyanhuQiming, ok13:05
XueFenghow to do this test13:05
Qimingit is about rally plugin, XueFeng13:06
XueFenggot it13:06
yanyanhuXueFeng, you can refer to the wiki of rally to get the basic guide about using rally. Senlin scenario has been added to rally in last cycle13:06
yanyanhuso you can use rally to evaluate the performance of some typical senlin operations like cluster creating/deleting13:07
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yanyanhuif you need more information or guide about it, please free feel to ping me :)13:07
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yanyanhuok, lets move on13:07
yanyanhuhealth management13:07
yanyanhuhi, Qiming, lixinhui13:07
yanyanhuyour turn13:08
Qimingno update in this thread13:08
lixinhuiI tried mistral in the past week13:08
lixinhuiand found it only13:08
yanyanhuI noticed elynn sent mail to adam to ask for the meeting time of HA team13:08
lixinhuiprovide retry13:08
yanyanhubut haven't got response yet?13:08
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elynnno response yet.13:08
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yanyanhulixinhui, you mean retry of workflow?13:09
elynnI saw nobody attend their meeting yesterday13:09
yanyanhuelynn, I see...13:09
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lixinhuidid they skip the meeting this week13:09
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lixinhuino people contribute13:09
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elynnNo, they don't ,but besides chair man, no one attend it13:09
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yanyanhumaybe we can consider to add topics to discuss if needed13:10
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lixinhuiadam is the key person13:11
lixinhuiI think13:11
yanyanhuyes, at least we can make some sync with them13:11
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lixinhuiyou can do it as PTL of senlin :)13:11
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lixinhuithen we contribute labor13:12
yanyanhulixinhui, sure. But I'm not the expert of HA :)13:12
yanyanhuI can just help to bridge you guys13:12
lixinhuielynn can keep touch adam for the base13:12
yanyanhuyes, so at least, we need get their response I feel :)13:13
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elynnno problem lixinhui13:13
yanyanhuwill talk with elynn and Qiming about it13:14
yanyanhuto see how to drive this work13:14
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lixinhuithe retry of mistral is based on times13:14
lixinhuiof execute some action13:14
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yanyanhuso retry is enabled by default?13:14
lixinhuiand time of wait between different try13:14
yanyanhue.g. when a workflow fails, it will be reexecuted automatically?13:15
lixinhuino, need configure when define the actiom13:15
yanyanhuI see13:15
yanyanhuhow mistrival decides workflow succeeds or not?13:15
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lixinhuithey can not judge based on any status13:16
lixinhuijust execute the defined sequence13:16
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lixinhuithere are quiet big gap as we expect13:16
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yanyanhuum, if so, how to decide whether try is needed?13:16
elynnwill it interrupt when some tasks were failed?13:17
yanyanhuok, so sounds it doesn't work as we expected before...13:17
lixinhuithat is the problem I raise this problem, yanyanhu13:17
lixinhuiyes, elynn13:17
lixinhuiit can switch to some branch if exception is got13:17
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lixinhuibut still very easy control nowdays13:18
yanyanhuI see.13:18
lixinhuiqiming, one question is difference between us with workflow based recover13:18
yanyanhuoh, btw, do we need to contribute code to mistral if we want it to support senlin workflow?13:18
lixinhuiQiming, could you share your mind to compare the two?13:19
yanyanhue.g. by implementing a plugin/driver for senlin13:19
Qimingno idea/experience with mistral ...13:19
lixinhuiyanyanhu, I will investigate more about this13:19
yanyanhulixinhui, great, thanks13:19
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lixinhuiokay, Qiming13:20
lixinhuithat is my part.13:20
Qimingit is all about vm ha ... could be an engine/policy-centric solution, could be a workflow centric solution13:20
Qimingneed some evaluation on the second one to make decision13:20
lixinhuiyes, you are right13:20
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lixinhuiwill discuss with you when find more13:21
lixinhuithat is my part update13:21
yanyanhulixinhui, great, thanks for the effort13:21
yanyanhuok, next one13:21
yanyanhudocument, no progress I think13:22
yanyanhuversioned request13:22
yanyanhume, Ruijie, XueFeng and lvdongbing are working on it13:22
yanyanhureceiver is almost done, only left ones are support for receiver delete and trigger13:23
yanyanhuRuijie, is policy support done as well?13:23
Ruijieyes, yanyanhu13:23
Ruijiepolicy and policy type have been done13:23
yanyanhuok, great, will remove it from etherpad13:23
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yanyanhuhi, lvdongbing, how about profile support?13:23
lvdongbingit's in good progress13:24
Qimingone thing is about the change to object field, the json schema generated now will skip the 'required' property if no property is actually needed13:24
Qimingthis will help ease some request modeling13:24
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yanyanhuQiming, ok. Currently all objects have at least one field who is not nullable13:25
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yanyanhuXueFeng is working on action/event support. I think it is in good progress as well13:25
XueFengA question13:26
XueFengaction create/delete not support in client13:26
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yanyanhuXueFeng, good question :)13:27
XueFengAnd in api layer,delete not support13:27
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XueFengin engine layer create/delete all support13:27
yanyanhuwe do have the plan to let users to customize and create/delete action(s)13:27
yanyanhuor even suspend/resume13:27
yanyanhubut we haven't figured out what is the appropriate way to implement it.13:28
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yanyanhuso you can see related service call is left there13:28
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yanyanhubut no related API interfaces are exposed to end user13:29
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XueFengOk, So in engine layer create/delete need changed to versioned request.13:29
yanyanhuXueFeng, yes, I think so13:29
yanyanhuwe can define it now13:29
yanyanhuand use it to implement API interface in future13:29
XueFengOk ,will do this13:30
yanyanhuXueFeng, great, thanks a lot :)13:30
yanyanhuok, lets move on?13:30
yanyanhucontainer profile13:30
yanyanhuhaiwei is not here I think13:30
yanyanhuno progress as well I guess13:31
yanyanhunext one13:31
yanyanhuQiming 's spec has been merged13:31
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yanyanhuI believe all of the team have checked it13:31
yanyanhuso lets wait for the patch from Qiming and have further discussion based on it13:32
elynnwhat spec?13:32
Qimingyes working on it13:32
yanyanhuelynn, the spec about notification/event support13:33
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yanyanhulooking forward to the patch :)13:34
yanyanhuok, next one13:34
yanyanhubatch policy13:34
yanyanhushould have been done by Ruijie13:34
yanyanhuwill remove it13:34
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yanyanhuNFV/baremetal support13:34
yanyanhuno progress I guess13:35
Ruijieyanyanhu, I want to resume it later..13:35
yanyanhuRuijie, ok, please add it back to etherpad if you further work on it :)13:35
Ruijieokay :)13:35
elynnI think baremetal is not fully supported by sdk?13:35
yanyanhuelynn, no sure about it...13:36
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yanyanhuif so, we may need to add more support for ironic into sdk first13:36
yanyanhuok, that's all work items in etherpad13:36
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yanyanhuany additional ones?13:37
yanyanhuyou guys are working on but not on the list?13:37
yanyanhunext topic13:37
yanyanhu#topic new core reviewer announcement13:38
*** openstack changes topic to "new core reviewer announcement (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:38
yanyanhuI'm very pleased to announce that Ruijie is now core reviewer of senlin :)13:38
yanyanhuRuijie, congratulate13:38
Ruijiethanks yanyanhu.13:38
RuijieSo happy to work with you all.13:38
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yanyanhume too13:38
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yanyanhulooking forward more contribution from you :)13:39
RuijieI will ^ ^13:39
Ruijiethanks XueFeng, Qiming13:39
lvdongbingwelcome :)13:39
yanyanhuplease put +2(-2 if needed:P on patches based on your review :)13:40
Ruijiethank lvdongbing.13:40
yanyanhuwe do need more eyes on patches13:40
Ruijieyes, yanyanu, will spend more time on reviewing.13:40
yanyanhuthanks a lot :)13:40
yanyanhuok, open discussion now13:41
yanyanhu#topic open discussion13:41
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:41
yanyanhuany topics you guys want to discuss?13:41
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yanyanhuoh, BTW, I do want to remind the team that the first miletone of ocata release will pass soon13:43
yanyanhuNov. 14-1813:43
yanyanhuthe second one will be in a month13:43
Qimingthis is gonna be a short cycle13:44
XueFengToday is Nov. 1513:44
yanyanhuso we may need to consider and adjust the plan we made if needed13:44
Qimingany high priority bugs to fix?13:44
yanyanhuQiming, currently no I think. Although there are several important features we want to support after this cycle13:45
Qimingi see13:45
yanyanhuI will look through the bug list to reconfirm it13:46
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Qimingthis bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/senlin/+bug/159435213:46
openstackLaunchpad bug 1594352 in senlin "could not list node sorted by "created_at:desc" " [High,Triaged] - Assigned to Qiming Teng (tengqim)13:46
Qimingmay need to check if the workaround suggested by milan works13:47
Qimingthe oslo.db side unit test is not an easy task for me ... haven't got cycles to dig into it13:48
yanyanhuQiming, I see... I recalled you fix on oslo.db side13:48
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yanyanhuabout the sort issue we met13:48
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yanyanhuok, any more topics?13:49
yanyanhuif not, I guess we can finish the meeting a little bit earlier?13:49
yanyanhuok, thanks all you guys for joining13:50
openstackLaunchpad bug 1640013 in OpenStack SDK "JSONDecodeError happened in senlin-api when running a senlin command" [Undecided,Confirmed]13:50
XueFengthis bugs in openstacksdk13:50
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yanyanhuthis is a bug of sdk actually13:51
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XueFengneed point out to help user13:51
Qimingit is solved in 0.9.1013:51
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Qimingit is an SDK bug13:51
Qiming0.9.9 sdk is not working properly13:51
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yanyanhuso it influences all senlin cmds?13:52
yanyanhuor part of them13:52
Qimingglobal requirements have been patched to avoid 0.9.9 version: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/397650/1/requirements.txt13:52
XueFengYes,all list comment13:52
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yanyanhuI see13:52
Qimingwhat else do you mean by "point out to help user", XueFeng ?13:52
yanyanhujust without 0.9.9, zaqar message receiver doesn't work...13:53
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yanyanhuso we will wait for 0.9.10 I think13:53
XueFengSome user may confused if use openstacksdk-0.9.9.Point out in the meeting13:53
Qimingit is already there: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/397510/13:53
Qiming0.9.10 was created and released, upper constraints raised, 0.9.9 version now forbidden13:54
Qimingwhat else do we want?13:54
yanyanhuif 0.9.9 is now forbidden in requirements, it is ok I think13:54
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Qimingthis thing has been discussed in senlin channel today13:55
yanyanhuok, I see13:55
yanyanhuso this bug report can be closed I guess13:56
yanyanhusince upper constraint has been updated13:56
yanyanhuok, any more items?13:57
yanyanhuok, thanks you guys again for joining :)13:57
yanyanhuhave a good night13:58
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elynnhave a good night!13:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov 15 13:58:11 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:58
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-15-13.00.html13:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-15-13.00.txt13:58
XueFenggood night13:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-15-13.00.log.html13:58
Ruijiegood night :)13:58
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saggi#startmetting karbor15:03
saggi#startmeeting karbor15:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov 15 15:03:47 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'15:03
saggiHello everyone15:03
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saggi#topic Multi-tenant Isolation in Managing the Checkpoints(leon_wang)15:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Multi-tenant Isolation in Managing the Checkpoints(leon_wang) (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:05
leon_wangI updated the patch today.15:05
chenyingI note that saggi said that we should consider cross-site solutions about checkpoints.15:06
leon_wangchenying:yes,and i've updated it.15:06
saggiWe also need to remember that we do want multiple projects to see the same checkpoints since restoring to a new project is a possibility.15:06
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leon_wangsaggi: what do you mean that multiple projects to see the same checkpoints?15:07
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leon_wanghave you checked the latest patch?15:08
chenyingIt means that different tenant would restore a new site form the same checkpoints data.15:08
saggiA major issue with your proposal is that the format needs to change if you are doing single or multi-site.15:09
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saggiThe use might want to start with a single site and then change to a cross-site setup15:10
leon_wangsaggi: I don't think it's a problem because the solution between single and multi are seprate.15:11
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saggiThat is the problem15:11
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yuvalleon_wang: the same checkpoint should be used for both single and cross site15:12
leon_wangWhat I mean is that no matter user start with a single or multi site, the solution I proposed will be ok.15:12
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leon_wangyuval: You mean the project_id can not be modified?15:13
yuvalleon_wang: not sure I understand what you mean15:13
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chenyingI thought that cross-site means different site with one keystone, just is several sites with different AZ.15:14
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leon_wangyuval: You can consider it when we use iphone, after the cellphone reboot,it would forcely need user to input the password.15:15
chenyingBut as saggi said, these tenant maybe is from different keystone.15:15
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yuvalchenying: in Ocata design summit we thought about limiting to a federated keystone15:15
leon_wangSo the cross-site is about Karbor or OpenStack?15:16
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chenyingHow to control the access permission about the checkpoint data? Does it means that every tenant can restore the same checkpoint data to a new site?15:17
leon_wangyuval: As you showed the demo in the summit, the cross-site means different Keystone or one Keystone?15:18
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yuvalleon_wang: in the summit, two completely different sites were presented. But no isolation was there15:18
chenyingThese tenants come form different openstack(keystone)/15:18
leon_wangchenying:every tenant can access the checkpoint by project_pwd.15:18
yuvalleon_wang: it means that if one site sees the same bank as the other, it can access all checkpoints (which is not desireable)15:18
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yuvalhowever, we did say that there is the use case of non federated, separate keystone services15:20
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leon_wangyuval: I think that if user from other Keystone uses Karbor, the checkpoint_pwd will gurantee him to get access to his checkpoints.15:21
chenyingleon_wang: site a is down. I don't think another tenant can acess the bank with  project_pwd of site A.15:21
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leon_wangchenying:I mean if the site is down,then the identity about project_id will not work, then user can use project_pwd.15:23
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saggileon_wang: Try and find me on IRC tomorrow and we'll talk about the requirements and your spec so that we can finish it quickly. OK?15:24
chenyingwhat is project_pwd?15:24
leon_wangthe project_pwd is created when a user creates a checkpoint.15:24
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saggileon_wang: I'll bring you up to speed with all the requirements and constraints.15:24
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leon_wangchenying:when user A uses the system the first time, the system will generate a uuid corresponding with every project_id and then return it to user. You can consider it as a kind of password(can be modified by users?) with project_id.15:24
leon_wangsaggi: ok, thanks.15:25
saggi#topic Protection Plugin API: https://review.openstack.org/397156 and https://review.openstack.org/348163 (yuval?)15:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Protection Plugin API: https://review.openstack.org/397156 and https://review.openstack.org/348163 (yuval?) (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:25
yuvalyes, I'm updating the spec as well as implementation of the protection plugin api15:25
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yuvalit is important for Ocata, please dedicate some time to review it so we can get it in before the end of Ocata15:26
leon_wangyuval: It seems the link doesn't work.15:26
chenyingyuval: I will review these patches tomorrow.15:26
yuvalleon_wang: both links work for me15:27
saggihttps://review.openstack.org/397156 ] and [ https://review.openstack.org/348163 ]15:27
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leon_wangGot it15:27
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saggiyuval: Anything more you want to say about it?15:28
yuvalthat's it for now15:28
saggi#topic The road to stability15:28
*** openstack changes topic to "The road to stability (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:29
saggiI don't see people opening or closing bugs.15:29
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leon_wangyuval:can you simply describe what you will do, please?15:29
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yuvalleon_wang: in the patches above? The intention is to stabilize the Protection Plugin API, and have it enable both simple and extreme use cases15:31
leon_wangsaggi: Sorry I had to prepare for my exam last two weeks, I will check the bug I reported these days.15:31
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saggiI'm also to blame and I am going to start taking stock and opening bugs for stuff that I find need to be fixed.15:33
saggiThe small things do count.15:33
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saggiPlease make sure to check the bug list15:34
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saggi#topic open discussion15:34
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:34
saggiAnyone has anything they want to talk about?15:34
leon_wangYes, i have a tiny question.15:35
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leon_wangI just want to know if it's difficult to call REST API of Cinder.15:35
saggiIn general?15:36
leon_wangHow to implement it?15:36
saggiIn Karbor?15:36
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chenyingI don't think so. We can use client of cinder in karbor.15:36
leon_wangFor example, if I want to create a volume, then how can i call the get() in Cinder?15:37
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leon_wangchenying: If don't use client?15:37
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smcginnisleon_wang: There's the API docs.15:37
leon_wangchenying: sorry, If don't use Karbor?15:38
smcginnisleon_wang: But best to use the cinderclient library.15:38
smcginnisleon_wang: But this sound like it's not related to karbor, so if you have questions about cinder, please ask in #openstack-cinder or #openstack-dev.15:38
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chenyingWe can use the cinderclient library. don't need use it in karbor.15:38
saggileon_wang: Do you want to call cinder from a protection plugin?15:38
leon_wangsmcginnis: If I want to create a tiny program, is it difficult?15:38
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smcginnisleon_wang: Usually no.15:39
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leon_wangsaggi: no15:40
leon_wangI don't know if the project out of OpenStack can call REST API in Cinder or Karbor?15:41
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saggileon_wang: I don't think it's related to this meeting in any case. I think http://docs.openstack.org/developer/python-cinderclient/ is a place to start15:42
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leon_wangsaggi: ok, thanks15:43
saggiAnything else?15:43
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leon_wangsaggi: no15:44
chenyingsaggi  Is there any progress about freezer integration?15:44
saggichenying: Oh, right15:45
saggiI was in their meeting15:45
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saggiThe support invoking freezer without setting up a job first. What we call (stateless)15:46
saggiIt will not put information in the freezer DB etc. This is good since we want to own that informatino.15:46
saggiSo on that front things are good.15:46
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saggiAbout not having to install freezer-scheduler on every node. They are thinking about supporting that but it's still early.15:47
saggiThis means that for anyone to get guest cooperation they will need to fully deploy freezer.15:47
saggiAt least for now15:47
chenyingsaggi I see. That mean that only the restfull api of freezer can be called in karbor?15:48
saggiThat is all we need15:48
chenyingsaggi: Ok we only consider integrate the solution about app protection?15:50
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chenyingin freezer15:50
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saggiWe don't need their storage since we can just put it in the bank and we don't need their full volume feature since we do it anyway.15:51
saggiWhat else is there?15:51
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chenyingOk we can discuss freezer tomorrow in karbor irc channel.15:52
saggiAnything else?15:53
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saggiThanks everybody.15:54
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:54
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov 15 15:54:33 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:54
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-15-15.03.html15:54
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-15-15.03.txt15:54
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-15-15.03.log.html15:54
leon_wangthanks saggi15:54
chenyingthanks all15:54
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mmedvede#startmeeting third-party17:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov 15 17:00:49 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'17:00
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mmedvedehi asselin krtaylor17:01
mmedvedeand ja317:01
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mmedvedeI've added one topic to agenda today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty17:02
mmedvede#topic Future of the meeting17:03
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mmedvedeasselin brought up an idea of not having this meeting, and using Monday slot instead17:03
krtaylorThe proposal is to merge the two meetings back together?17:03
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ja3which monday slot?17:04
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asselinyes, I think we should reevaluate if we still need two meetings.17:04
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asselinMondays at 1500 UTC17:04
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ja3ok, that would be doable for me17:05
krtaylorhow well is it attended? would that effectively kill this working group?17:05
mmedvedethe attendance of this meeting was going down steadily17:05
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krtaylorprobably both17:06
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krtaylorbut I have no facts to back that up17:07
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mmedvedetbh, the meeting is not required to have a wg17:07
mmedvedepeople who do work are required :)17:07
asselinI see the attendance of both meetings declining. I see this a result of 3rd party ci stabilization and less issues than previously.17:08
krtaylorexactly, and fewer teams needing to get started17:08
krtaylorbut one item remains, the dashboard17:08
* mmedvede hides17:08
krtaylorI propose that the current hosting be shut down17:09
krtaylorbut that is a new topic17:09
mmedvedeI am assigned to this item17:09
* krtaylor waits until open discussion17:09
mmedvedeok, let's do official vote17:09
mmedvedeI wonder if patrickeast ans wznoinsk want to participate17:10
krtaylorasselin, are you running the Monday meetings?17:10
asselinkrtaylor, anteaya is still running them AFAIK.17:11
krtaylorok, cool17:11
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krtaylorjust wanted to make sure there was a meeting there to catch this one :)17:11
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asselinyes, the idea is to reduce to 1, not 0 :)17:13
mmedvede#startvote Have only one third party meeting on Mondays 15:00 UTC17:13
openstackUnable to parse vote topic and options.17:13
asselinand also free up calendar meeting space for other teams that are looking for a timeslot17:13
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mmedvede#startvote "Have only one third party meeting on Mondays 15:00 UTC"17:14
openstackUnable to parse vote topic and options.17:14
mmedvedeok, lets vote without the meetbot17:14
krtaylormmedvede, don't feel bad, I always have trouble with the vote syntax  :-P17:15
mmedvede+1 from me17:15
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mmedvedeit is decided, we would free up this slot, and move to Mondays 15:00 UTC17:16
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mmedvededo we need a ML announcement?17:17
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ja3I assume this means that today is the final meeting in this slot.  I haven't been to the Monday mtg, is that also bi-weekly?  we probably want to be concrete in the announcement when the first meeting date in the new slot is.  as well as the channel.17:18
asselinja3, it's a weekly meeting. That's the 'original' one that's been around for a very long time.17:19
mmedvedeja3: the monday meeting is weekly, it was more of an "office hours" got get questions answered for new CI operators17:19
ja3well that at least makes the "first meeting date in new location" unambiguous17:20
asselin#link third party meeting wiki page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty17:20
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mmedvedethe confusing part is weekly vs biweekly17:21
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mmedvedeI'll work on the announcement and patch to free up the slot17:23
ja3meh, worst that happens is you miss every other one until your brain stretches to fit the new info.17:23
mmedvede#topic Open Discussion17:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:24
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mmedvedeanything to discuss here?17:25
* asselin pokes krtaylor 17:25
krtayloryeah, so we should get the current hosting stopped17:26
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krtaylorthat will sour the mils so-to-speak17:26
krtaylorand force an infra hosting17:26
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krtaylorit needs to be hosted by openstack17:26
krtaylorit is a valuable dashboard17:26
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mmedvedeI agree that it would force it to get done. although it is a harsh way of achieving it17:27
asselinI prefer an infra hosting first and have the current hosting redirected. Maybe we can revisit what needs to be done for infra hosting?17:27
krtaylorthat has been proposed17:27
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krtaylorand it never gets traction17:27
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* krtaylor looks back at his patch log17:28
mmedvedeyes, you always need to bump the patches, I was not doing that17:28
mmedvedenow they probably need updating17:28
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asselineverything is in merge conflict? https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:ci-dashboard+status:open,n,z17:29
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krtaylorI found the original from 2014, but looking for the follow-on17:29
mmedvedeasselin: that is refactor patches, not on master branch17:30
mmedvedeasselin: we can proceed without that17:30
krtayloranyway, it is old for sure17:30
asselinso then there are no open patches?17:30
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asselinnevermind, i see 2 now: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/ciwatch+branch:master+topic:jenkins2zuul17:31
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mmedvedethese are not blockers17:32
asselinall the puppet changes are merged.17:32
mmedvedebasically, what needs to happen is this: make sure puppet deployment still works, and ask infra if they have servers available to deploy there17:32
mmedvedeI've been told it is ok to deploy code that is not "perfect"17:33
krtaylorcode? perfect?  :)17:33
asselinok, I will propose some system-config patches to get it deployed in infra.17:33
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mmedvedeperfect for me is when the rate of "what the hell does this mean" while you read code is below 1 a minute17:34
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asselinthis is not a critical service. We should try to get what we have deployed and iterate from there. The current dashboard is working fine.17:35
mmedvedeno objections17:36
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mmedvedeany other topics to discuss?17:38
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asselinMaybe we can discuss the puppet-jenkins patches. There's quite a few and getting stuck17:38
asselinI updated one yesterday: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366803/17:39
mmedvede#topic Jenkins Security-17017:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Jenkins Security-170 (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:39
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asselinper clarkb's comments to use puppet archive.17:39
asselinthis is -1, and disabling security isn't great idea anyway: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/334400/17:40
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asselinseems like this is the best choice for customizing security: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/262787/17:40
mmedvede+1 on this ^17:41
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mmedvedebut we probably need to ask for reviews in infra17:41
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asselinso 2 patches + update the puppet-openstackci to allow those 2 to be used: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/367232/17:43
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asselininfra doesn't use jenkins anymore. Maybe they would let new core members join?17:46
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mmedvedethat is a reasonable idea17:48
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mmedvedebecause infra is not consuming it any longer, they have less incentive to review it17:48
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mmedvedeasselin: so is this a topic for infra team meeting?17:49
asselinwe could ask there or in channel. I cannot attend today.17:49
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clarkbmmedvede: asselin ya I had suggested that at one point, I am in favor17:51
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mmedvedeclarkb: should we bring it up during infra meeting?17:52
clarkbor just ping fungi about it as ptl17:53
mmedvedegot it, thanks clarkb17:53
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mmedvedeanything else?17:56
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asselinnot from me17:57
mmedvedehi sayalilunkad, just noticed you joined17:57
ja3nuttin honey17:57
fungii doubt there's any need for an infra meeting topic there17:57
fungii was actually just looking at that change since i saw the gerrit notification for asselin's last comment17:58
mmedvedefungi: so should we look for people to add to the puppet-jenkins-core?17:59
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mmedvedeif we do, need to discuss that17:59
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asselinmeeting time is up. move to #openstack-infra?17:59
fungiyeah, if you have reviewers you want to nominate, give me a heads up17:59
mmedvedeok, it is time17:59
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mmedvedethanks everyone17:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov 15 17:59:56 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-11-15-17.00.html17:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-11-15-17.00.txt18:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-11-15-17.00.log.html18:00
lbragstadmeeting time! amakarov, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, chrisplo, crinkle, davechen, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, edtubill, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hrybacki, jamielennox, jaugustine, jgrassler, knikolla, lbragstad, kbaikov, ktychkova, morgan, nisha, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, srwilkers, stevemar, topol, StefanPaetowJisc18:00
lbragstad#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov 15 18:00:27 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
ayoungi'M HERE18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
lbragstadnot a whole lot on the agenda - so we'll give it a few minutes18:01
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:01
lbragstadhopefully everyone's having a nice Tuesday18:01
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lbragstadalright - let's get going18:03
lbragstad#topic Announcements18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
lbragstadOcata-1 being released this week18:03
henrynash_(sorry to be late)18:03
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lbragstadif you have anything to backport to Newton or Mitaka, now is the time to do it18:03
lbragstadstevemar is going to be rolling new versions soon18:03
lbragstadsince Ocata 1 is here - spec reviews need to be in full swing18:03
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lbragstadspec proposal freeze is this week18:04
lbragstadwe've merged a few specs but we have several we still need to decide on as a group18:04
morgan_o/ <--- here18:04
lbragstad(we can spend any free time on that after the meeting)18:04
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lbragstadlooks like we have a new contributor for the outreachy program (annakoppad)18:05
lbragstadso if you see them floating around in -keystone, make them feel welcome :)18:06
rodrigodslbragstad, ++18:06
rodrigodsme and raildo will be mentoring her18:06
lbragstadrodrigods awesome18:06
lbragstadrodrigods any specifics on what she will be working on?18:06
rodrigodsthe current project idea is to have LDAP as backend jobs18:06
lbragstadrodrigods very cool18:06
morgan_rodrigods: what do you mean by"backend jobs"?18:07
morgan_just a special gate job that checks per backend?18:07
rodrigodsmorgan_, running jobs with LDAP as identity backend18:07
lbragstadrodrigods i assume jobs that test ldap for identity18:07
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rodrigodslbragstad, ++18:07
morgan_rodrigods: ok, yeah makes sense. just being sure i was on the same page18:08
lbragstadjust fyi - stevemar has been using google to track the work being done this release18:08
lbragstadhe wanted me to advertise the link during the meeting18:08
lbragstad#link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/156q820cXcEc8Y9YWQgoc_hyOm3AZ2jtMQM3zdDhwGFU/edit?usp=sharing18:08
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lbragstadif you see anything on there that needs to be updated or fixed, let one of us know18:08
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lbragstadRemember that this week we will be continuing our work with the horizon team on Thursdays18:09
* morgan_ glares at laptop that struggles to load that spreadsheet18:09
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lbragstadThursday at 20:00 UTC in #openstack-meeting-cp18:09
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lbragstadyou can add the ical to your calendar - http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Keystone/Horizon_Collaboration_Meeting18:09
lbragstadwe also have a weekly policy meeting starting tomorrow18:10
lbragstad#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/107137.html18:10
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lbragstadI've documented the reason for it in the mailing list thread and looking forward to hosting it tomorrow18:10
lbragstadthe etherpad for the meeting is here - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-policy-meeting18:10
lbragstadfeel free to add content before tomorrow - I'm going to go through and formalize the final agenda tonight sometime18:11
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ayoungSo we need to enable LDAP on the devstack instacnce used for the Gate and check jobs first18:11
morgan_ayoung: or make it a flag for the new job18:11
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morgan_ayoung: it would be fine if the enable ldap is just used for the new backend job(s) not every single gate job18:12
ayoungmorgan_, does not need to be a new job.  THere is asubmission for keystone functional tests.  SHould be that job18:12
rodrigodsmorgan_, ayoung we also need to check if the LDAP thing is working on devstack18:12
rodrigodsproperly working18:12
morgan_please don't try and enable it for every single job was my point, unless we are using for every single job (even non-keystone) dsvm18:12
rodrigodsayoung, the way we test different scenarios is with different jobs18:13
rodrigodswe still have the SQL backend scenario18:13
rodrigodsand the keystone tempest plugin tests don't include user/group tests18:13
rodrigodsso we need to run tempest18:13
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lbragstadwe can probably continue this specific discussion offline18:14
morgan_rodrigods: you're on the right track18:14
lbragstad#topic Request id chaining in keystoneclient18:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Request id chaining in keystoneclient (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:15
lbragstadbreton ^18:15
morgan_i expect you'll need to massage some stuff in devstack, but def good direction18:15
rodrigodsmorgan_, ++18:15
lbragstadis breton around?18:15
morgan_i do not see breton being active. he's in the channel18:16
lbragstadwe'll come back to that if he shows up18:16
lbragstad#topic Mailing list posts that need attention18:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Mailing list posts that need attention (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:16
lbragstad#link  http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2016-November/017934.html18:16
lbragstad#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2016-October/017912.html18:17
lbragstadstevemar was curious if anyone would be interested in taking point on responding to those18:17
* morgan_ volunteers ayoung for the inheretance one :P (or henrynash_ )18:17
ayoungwhat did I inherit?18:18
morgan_ayoung: second mailing list link, role inheretance use/question18:18
henrynash_I think I responded to (at least one of) the question son inheritance18:18
morgan_but henrynash_ might have it covered18:18
ayoungthought I answered that already18:18
ayoungdomain vs project roles18:18
henrynash_…and happy to take all things “inheritance” if that would help18:19
ayoungdomains need to diwe18:19
morgan_the multi domain one is pretty dense topic fwiw.18:19
lbragstadhenrynash_ can i make that an action for you then?18:19
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lbragstad#action henrynash_ to respond to http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2016-October/017912.html18:19
morgan_thanks henrynash_18:19
dstanekmorgan_: only two of the three questions are ours and i think they are not terrible... it's the example that makes it look hard18:19
lbragstadthanks henrynash_18:20
morgan_dstanek: i am guessing it will be more involved in general based upon the example.18:20
lbragstadanyone feel like tackling multi-domain identity and security groups - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2016-November/017934.html ?18:21
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dstaneklbragstad: i can do an initial response....but i'm guessing there will be lots of followup questions18:21
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lbragstaddstanek awesome - that's just fine18:22
morgan_dstanek: tag me in if you need extra eyes on it.18:22
lbragstad#action dstanek to respond to http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2016-November/017934.html18:22
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morgan_i'll try and keep an eye on it as well.18:22
dstanekmorgan_: thx18:22
lbragstad#topic specs to review18:22
*** openstack changes topic to "specs to review (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:22
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lbragstadalright - here are a handful of specs proposed to Ocata that we need to reach consensus on18:23
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/388886/18:23
lbragstadAdd keystone project properties ^18:23
lbragstaddstanek - you were doing a bunch of noodling on that last week18:24
ayoungYeah, that one is still not on my happy list18:24
ayoungI did have some alternative thoughts to that approach18:24
lbragstadayoung is the alternative documented anywhere?18:24
samueldmqayoung: comment on the Review?18:24
dstaneklbragstad: i think there are a lot of hole there....big enough to driver a 4x4 pickup truck through18:25
ayoungdstanek, ++18:25
ayoungthe "properties" can't be owned by the projects18:25
ayoungthey need to outside.18:25
lbragstaddstanek yeah - the nova folks seemed to have some valuable feedback there, too18:25
ayoungmanaged separately18:25
lbragstaddstanek did you get a chance to follow up on the mailing list?18:25
ayoungif we had the idea of a project group, and then you enrolled the project in the group, it would be closer18:25
lbragstadayoung then associate properties to the group?18:26
ayounglbragstad, I don't think you would need to18:26
dstaneklbragstad: i read the responses, but i don't think they are dealing with my concerns. if you like i can reply with my different objects18:26
ayoungany logic based on the projectgroup  membership would still be external to Keystone18:26
lbragstaddstanek cool - that would be helpful18:26
gagehugodstanek please do18:26
dstanekgagehugo: you know then already :-)18:27
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gagehugonova folks might have ideas though18:27
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dstanekmost of my issues are around separation of concerns. who can edit what properties18:28
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lbragstadayoung if you start enrolling projects into groups, what takes care of the properties?18:28
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morgan_dstanek: agreed. I also don't like the idea that keystone is the generic arbitrary key-value-store location for all of openstack (little restriction on the properties)18:29
ayoungmorgan_, ++18:29
ayoungok...let me see if I can make this clear18:29
dstaneklbragstad: each group would be similar to a property (dev, projection, billing-code-x) and if only the owner of the group and put projects in it then my issues are gone18:29
jamielennoxagreed, extra has been a PITA i'd prefer to kill it than formalize it18:29
morgan_there is a fixed limit on the maximum size (in mysql) we can hold of arbitrary properties.18:29
ayounglets say one reason they want this is to tag a project by rate18:29
morgan_in extra18:29
ayounggold, silver, bronze18:29
dstanekmorgan_: jamielennox: ++18:29
ayounggold pays 1000/month, bronze is 1 Month18:30
gagehugowell we had the idea of limiting keys via config, which would limit others in openstack from using it18:30
lbragstadah ha... ok18:30
lbragstadI see what you mean18:30
ayoungsetting the rate for a project should not be done by an admin of that project18:30
ayoungit should be done external to the project18:30
ayounghowever that is managed.18:30
morgan_gagehugo: i had a proposal that respun extras into something that is managed by the cloud admin in a way that didn't run into limits and allowed indexing18:30
jamielennoxanyone doing that sort of managing is maintaining there own databases external to keystone anyway and they can link it to a non-changing project-id there18:30
morgan_gagehugo: it was super complex and still not a great design (this was 2-3 cycles ago)18:30
ayoungdon't make it Cloud admin's responsibility, though18:30
gagehugomorgan_ ah18:30
ayoungjust not the project admins responsibilituy18:31
ayoungthink of it as a resource loan18:31
morgan_jamielennox: this honestly feels like CRM tool (salesforce for example) details18:31
morgan_billing data should not be in keystone...18:31
ayoungI create this "thing" what ever it is, and then I say "this project can use it"18:31
jamielennoxalso codifiing allowed keys means you are making fixed custom additions to the keystone api which is another point of difference between cloud implementations18:31
morgan_sorry ayoung ^ not jamielennox18:31
ayoungmorgan_, yeah, I agree..just that is one of the reasons they want it18:31
ayoungI am just illustrating the point with that18:32
lbragstadgagehugo is billing the main use case you have for project properties?18:32
gagehugono, not the main use, moreso to keep track of a large # of projects18:32
morgan_gagehugo: can you explain the usecase for us?18:32
dstanekgagehugo: billing is one of your use cases18:32
ayounggagehugo, that is why we have HMT18:33
lbragstadgagehugo so like - tracking all projects that are used for development?18:33
jamielennoxwould it be sufficient to add a tags column to projects?18:33
ayoungjamielennox, that has exactly the same problem I just illustrated18:33
jamielennoxyou can tag any number of projects with any tag and handle what you care about externally18:33
gagehugodstanek billing is one of the tags, there are a bunch18:33
morgan_jamielennox: don't make it a static column, make it a table (many tags to one project)18:33
morgan_jamielennox: or similar design18:33
morgan_jamielennox: static column runs into character limit issues.18:34
jamielennoxayoung: right but i'm giving one fixed property, not allowing any arbitrary thing to be added to the db18:34
morgan_but impl details aside...18:34
jamielennoxmorgan_: i wasn't thinking any form of tag management, just as someone who can modify a project you can add an array of strings18:34
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gagehugomorgan_ we have a large # of projects that have various lifecycles/billing/usertypes/etc. and other than using extras or some homebrew extension, we would like this18:35
jamielennoxagain though the difference is you provide one thing supported by keystone, not a general key val store18:35
lbragstadi think someone in the mailing list pointed out the need for making tags or properties indexable18:35
morgan_lbragstad: i could ressurect my previous proposal18:35
morgan_it allowed the data to be indexable, but it's complex relational data.18:35
morgan_i don't really like it.18:36
lbragstadmorgan_ sure - want to compare it to the existing one?18:36
morgan_let me see if i can find it.18:36
gagehugomorgan_ that might have been the spec we looked at initially18:36
dstanekdoes this break cross cloud compatibility if every cloud has different metadata?18:36
lbragstaddstanek possibly18:36
lbragstaddstanek that's exactly what a few of the nova dev brought up as a concern18:36
gagehugolibragstad tracking projects for dev yes (sandboxes, things that need to stay up for a long time)18:37
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morgan_that could be the basis (it could be re-spun to be more specific to this case)18:37
ayounggagehugo, you understand my prime requirement for removing the -2?18:37
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morgan_or take bits of that index-design and apply towards the new spec18:38
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gagehugoayoung kinda, there seems to be a few concerns18:38
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ayoungbiggest one is security.  The property, projectgroup, tag, whatever it is, cannot be managed by the project admin.  It must be external to the project18:39
morgan_it would split the extras into columns that then relationally map to the project(s).18:39
lbragstadayoung why is that?18:39
ayoungWe really should treat projects as resources managed by other projects18:39
morgan_and could handle at least searching.18:39
ayounglbragstad, go rereasd my example18:39
lbragstadayoung so that a project admin can't modify the billing code to be something cheaper?18:39
ayounglbragstad, so that projects cannot violate the constraints that are placed on them.18:39
lbragstadayoung right - got it18:40
dstanekmorgan_: you spec would take care of the indexing, but would need to changes for authz18:40
morgan_dstanek: right. which would need to be expanded upon18:40
morgan_dstanek: i abandoned that design because the view was extras shouldn't receive much love since... ick18:40
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dstanekmy primary concern is that there are different tags/properties/whatever that need different authorizations to use; billing-code is cloud admin, environment is domain admin, etc18:41
morgan_i really think this cannot be data attached to the project and extras is insufficient18:41
morgan_s/projects/resources in keyustone18:42
ayoungit really should be outside of Keystone18:42
dstanekor we just say this is only for cloud admins....i bring up the authz issues because one of the documented usecases raised the issue18:42
jamielennoxmy opinion is at least tags is structured and a standard cross cloud API, but ideally i'd like to kill extras and make people maintain this stuff elsewhere because surely people are already tracking billing and stuff about projects18:42
morgan_jamielennox: ++18:43
samueldmqMetadata as a service18:43
morgan_<joke>Somebody else's problem as a service</joke>18:43
lbragstadjamielennox morgan_ ayoung have you all documented your concerns in the spec?18:43
morgan_in all seriousness, this is data that likely should not be directly attached to the resource in keystone18:44
dstanekthe more i think about it the more it seems to be the wrong architecture to actually put the data in keystone.18:44
ayounglbragstad, I've already -2ed it.  No one has come back with a sufficient counter argument.  We've discussed it here. The spec should not go ahead.18:44
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morgan_since those resources are mutable and the data is under the purview of domain/project admins to edit18:44
lbragstadayoung right - i see that. i want to make sure we're documenting our concerns in the spec though18:45
morgan_most of this data belongs in the CRM tool.18:45
ayoungit is application specific data and that should live in the application that requires it18:45
lbragstadthe more we talk about this proposal, the more i think it's trying to solve two problems18:45
morgan_ayoung: ++18:45
lbragstad1.) tracking large numbers of projects18:45
lbragstad2.) billing18:45
morgan_keystone is defintely a bad place to stick any billing information18:46
lbragstadok - so if we take billing out of the equation18:46
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lbragstadhow do we feel about using something like tags for tracking large numbers of projects18:46
morgan_and without the properties being searchable/indexable the problem 1 is missing basic usablility18:46
samueldmqWe could List projecto and pass tags as hints18:47
samueldmqThat would make it searchable18:47
gagehugoWe would be ok with tags if they are searchable18:47
morgan_samueldmq: which would need to be something closer to my above linked proposal18:47
morgan_since you can't use "extras" effectively for that18:47
dstaneklbragstad: yes, those where the original two usecases18:47
rodrigodswhy not use hiearchies to organize the projects?18:47
lbragstaddstanek most of your security concerns were based on #2, right?18:48
morgan_rodrigods: because hierarchies are very limited and projects cannot be moved [if i understand the proposal right]18:48
dstaneklbragstad: not sure which one exactly18:48
morgan_if you need to tag a project (example) with 10 tags18:48
samueldmqmorgan_ k I need to take a look at that too18:48
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chrisplois there a spec / proposal on a separate service for metadata?  I kind of like where that is going18:48
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rodrigodsmorgan_, hmm right18:49
lbragstadchrisplo not that I know of18:49
dstaneklbragstad: same concerns apply to organization. who does it the cloud admin, domain admin or other?18:49
morgan_dstanek: anyone who has write access to <resource>?18:49
dstanekin the spec it seemed cloud admin, but in a public cloud it would have to be domain admin or other18:49
dstanekmorgan_: exactly the problem with the spec when used for cross domain things18:50
morgan_tags have potential to cause issues fwiw in data bloat, etc18:50
ayounglbragstad, HMT is designed exactly for scale of projects18:50
morgan_so concerns on maximum data held in the store.18:50
morgan_but i am not opposed to tags for resources. simple strings that can be used for identification but no added data18:50
ayoungconverting it into some tag based or other mechanism while peopkle still don't get HMT is adding confusing to a complex system18:50
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morgan_but there are still the authz, indexable, searchable, etc concerns.18:51
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lbragstadyeah - it would make sense that if we are working with large numbers of projects, the tags need to be indexable18:51
gagehugolbragstad yes18:52
dstanekayoung: that's a good point. the origina usecase can be solved with a domain/{dev,staging,prod}/project structure; unless the project needs to live in two different places18:52
chrisplotags could be general though, service+uuid could identify specific items, not limited to projects . . .18:52
ayoungdstanek, yep18:52
dstanekalmost out of time.....18:52
morgan_chrisplo: that is why i said <resource>. not project specific18:52
lbragstadyep - I urge folks to leave comments on the review18:52
samueldmqHow big is a big set of projects?18:53
chrisplosorry, was dual tasking morgan_18:53
morgan_:) no worries18:53
morgan_samueldmq: assume 1000s18:53
lbragstadbecause i want to make sure we don't lose the context of our concerns https://review.openstack.org/#/c/388886/18:53
samueldmqmorgan_ k thanks18:53
dstanekchrisplo: metadata as a service is really just redis or a thin shim around it :-)18:53
morgan_but i wouldn't assume 10s of 1000s18:53
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morgan_dstanek: ++18:54
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lbragstadstevemar had a list of other specs to review in the etherpad18:54
morgan_dstanek: though that still suffers from non-index/searchable without a lot of shim magic18:54
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lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/396634 (lightweight trusts)18:54
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/396331 (enhancements to trust scopes)18:54
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/373983 (improved openid connect support)18:54
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/345705 (user managed TOTP credentials)18:54
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/397410/ (federated attributes for users)18:55
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/397860/ (native SAML2)18:55
lbragstadso - we'll need to make a decision on those soon18:55
samueldmqlbragstad is spec proposal freeze this week ?18:55
morgan_oh i think a spec that was lost was the enforced combined auth-plugin...18:55
dstaneksamueldmq: y18:55
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lbragstadsamueldmq yeah - end of this week i htink18:55
morgan_who was working on MFA round 2?18:55
dstanekmanjeets: wasn't that merged? the spec i mean18:55
samueldmq++ let's review :)18:55
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lbragstaddstanek morgan_ yeah - looks like it http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/specs/keystone/ocata/password-totp-plugin.html18:56
dstanekmorgan_: that was for you ^18:56
ayoungmost of the trust stuff is suspect18:56
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morgan_that doesn't really solve the problem18:56
ayounghttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/391624/  is the main thing18:57
lbragstadso - if you haven't looked at those specs, please do. I assume stevemar will have them on the agenda next week since we didn't get to them today18:57
ayoungshould have put a discussion on that into the meeting18:57
morgan_it's fine, just not... really addressing needing totp+password vs password vs totp for authn18:57
morgan_some users may require password+totp, vs just password. which is a valid use-case18:57
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* morgan_ grumbles about being busy and unable to review the specs.18:58
lbragstaddoes anyone have any last minute things?18:58
lbragstadgo morgan_ go18:58
morgan_if we want to move the agenda back to the wiki18:58
morgan_we can18:58
morgan_new users can be created again18:58
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morgan_i like etherpad18:58
morgan_but just think about it18:58
morgan_we can bug steve next week18:58
lbragstadmorgan_ sounds good, i'll make a note18:58
lbragstadmorgan_ thanks18:58
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lbragstadanything else?18:59
samueldmqI am fine either way18:59
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samueldmqLet's think about it and take a decision next week?18:59
lbragstadsamueldmq yeah18:59
lbragstadalright - i'll give everyone one whole minute back18:59
morgan_lbragstad: don't do it!18:59
lbragstadi'm doin' it!19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov 15 19:00:04 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-15-18.00.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-15-18.00.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-15-18.00.log.html19:00
samueldmqlbragstad thanks19:00
morgan_they may not give you that minute next week if you don't use it!19:00
fungiinfra team, assemble!19:00
lbragstadthanks for coming everyone!19:00
fungithis week's topics proposed by eumel8, fungi19:00
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eumel8Hola, infra team :)19:00
* morgan_ runs and hides under a rock.19:00
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SotKo/ (intermittent for a short while)19:00
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov 15 19:02:38 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
fungi#topic Announcements19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
fungi#info The http://developer.openstack.org/ site is now served from an AFS-backed Apache server under Infra team management.19:03
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fungicongrats all who worked on that! i'm sure docs.o.o is coming up soon19:03
fungi#info REMINDER: Our "Ocata Cycle" [2048R/0x8B1B03FD54E2AC07] signing key has been generated; infra-root admins are requested to follow our attestation process as soon as possible.19:03
fungi#link https://sks-keyservers.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xd47bab1b7dc2e262a4f6171e8b1b03fd54e2ac07&fingerprint=on OpenStack Infra (Ocata Cycle) <infra-root@openstack.org>19:03
fungi#link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/signing.html#attestation Attestation process19:03
fungithanks pabelanger and pleia2 for doing this already!19:03
fungii'd like to see at least a few more infra-root signatures on this before we switch it in for the old newton signing key19:03
fungi(which is set to expire in just over two weeks!)19:03
fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:04
* clarkb makes note to get on board and do that19:04
* jhesketh apologises for not having done it yet and will do it today 19:04
fungino worries, and thanks19:04
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-08-19.03.html last meeting's minutes19:04
fungifungi send summit session summary to infra ml19:05
fungistill in progress but nearly done :/19:05
fungi#action fungi send summit session summary to infra ml19:05
fungipabelanger send followup announcement for wheel-less pep8 job transition19:05
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/106990.html "important changes to pep8 python jobs" reminder19:05
fungithanks again pabelanger--i'm looking forward to the transition tomorrow!19:05
fungi#action pabelanger un-wip "Force gate-{name}-pep8-{node} to build needed wheels" change19:05
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fungiand then we'll merge it early-ish in the day i guess?19:05
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/391875 "Force gate-{name}-pep8-{node} to build needed wheels" change19:06
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fungifungi propose clarification about project-specific test preconditions (databases, filesystems) for cti19:06
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/397502 "Acknowledge nominal prerequisites for tests" change19:06
fungiit's wip, but figured i'd get people to have a look real quick and see if that matches what we agreed to in the last meeting before i get it onto the tc agenda for next week19:06
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fungibut i guess you can always look at it later19:08
fungifungi purchase cert for pholio.openstack.org19:08
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/397464 "Use CA-issued SSL cert for pholio.o.o service" change19:08
fungiall set up in hiera and ready to go19:08
fungijust needs approval19:08
fungiand that's it for the action items i think19:09
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fungi#topic Specs approval19:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:09
fungi#info APPROVED: "Automate Creating Branches" spec19:09
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/branch-automation.html19:09
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fungizaro also has a spec proposed for "Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade" which he plans to bring up next week (he's unavailable this week)19:10
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/388190 "Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade" spec19:10
fungihe's also suggesting it as a priority spec19:10
fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:11
funginothing is called out on the agenda, though as i said a moment ago, next week we may vote on adding another one19:11
fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Zuul v319:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Zuul v3 (Meeting topic: infra)"19:11
fungijust a quick mention that the zuul subteam had their first meeting yesterday19:12
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Zuul_Meeting A weekly meeting to discuss Zuul development19:12
fungifor those who want to start attending19:12
fungi#topic Zanata Upgrade to Xenial (eumel8)19:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Zanata Upgrade to Xenial (eumel8) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:13
fungi#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-i18n/+spec/ocata-zanata-upgrade%7C19:13
fungii can't actually browse that, eumel819:13
eumel8yes, thx. I18n team wants to upgrade zanata server. We're looking for volunteers :-)19:13
clarkbbasiaclly newer zanata for newer features requires newer java which requires newer ubuntu19:14
eumel8upgrade means change to java8 with change to xenial VM19:14
fungilooks like the %7c on the end is an error19:14
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x7fac552e9850>19:14
zara_the_lemur__(the link seems to work sans the %7C)19:14
zara_the_lemur__oh snap19:14
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fungi#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-i18n/+spec/ocata-zanata-upgrade "Ocata: Zanata upgrade" I18n blueprint19:14
eumel8starting on translate-dev, test the stuff and then the live upgrade19:14
fungiis the current puppet module set up such that we can easily deploy different versions of zanata on translate-dev.o.o vs translate.o.o?19:15
clarkbfungi: it should be, I merged a change recently to be smarter about choosing the java version19:15
clarkband assuming there are no other unforseen issues that should be all that is required to run on xenial -dev and trusty prod19:15
eumel8yes, it should be ready19:16
pabelangerhave we done a xenial server yet? I remember pleia2 asking for it a while back19:16
fungiso we can just start with a proposed change to the zanata release for it, and then we rebuild the server on a xenial image?19:16
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fungido we need to disable ansible runs for te existing translate-dev.o.o i guess?19:16
clarkbpabelanger: no we haven't done any xenial servers yet, this will likely be the first19:17
fungidoes it keep its own state locally, or is it all in trove and cinder?19:17
pabelangerclarkb: okay19:17
clarkbfungi: I don't know about cinder, but pretty sure it uses trove. At least for dev I don't know that we care about the state though19:17
fungiwell, we've done other servers running xenial, but i don't think we've upgraded any existing services from trusty to xenial yet19:17
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pabelangermight be worth picking a server in our inventory, and upgrading it to xenial first. Confirm puppet is working as expected before adding new puppet manifests19:18
clarkb(probably good for testing to try and preserve state though)19:18
clarkbpabelanger: yes I think we are saying zanata-dev is that server :)19:18
fungipabelanger: well, as i said, we do have some puppeted servers running xenial19:18
clarkband this isn't a new puppet manifest, its an existing one just reapplied to newer distro release19:18
pabelangerfungi: oh, sorry. I missed that19:18
pabelangerokay, cool19:18
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fungifor example, firehose01.o.o is xenial19:19
pabelangernice, wasn't aware of that19:19
fungiwe've just only been using xenial for new services so far and haven't moved any existing services from trusty to xenial as far as i'm aware19:19
fungibut it seems relatively low-risk, especially for the -dev server19:20
clarkbeumel8: was it you that fixed the puppet to handle different java versions?19:20
fungineed to make sure that we also update the node entry for that server in the global site manifest to be tested against xenial instead of trusty19:20
clarkbin any case i18n team has been pretty proactive doing things like ^ which is great too19:20
eumel8clarkb: yes19:20
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fungiso seems likely to be fairly straightforward. just need an infra-root volunteer to try replacing teh server19:21
clarkbya I had mentioned at the summit I could probably do that but then havebeen swamped with post summit catching up of all the things19:21
pabelangerI can also help if needed19:21
clarkbI can probably give it a go late this week if no one else is able to19:22
clarkbprobably thursday or friday19:22
fungi#action clarkb pabelanger work on replacing translate-dev.openstack.org with xenial server running newer zanata release19:22
fungieumel8: anything else you wanted to cover on this?19:22
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eumel8no, thanks, fungi19:23
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fungithanks for reminding us the i18n team is ready for newer zanata19:23
fungi#topic Scheduling another project rename maintenance (fungi)19:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Scheduling another project rename maintenance (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:23
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fungiwe've had a proposed project rename sitting out there for about 6 weeks19:23
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fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/381332 'Rename abbreviation name "rsc" (rack scale controller) to final name "valence".' change19:24
fungii was expecting us to accumulate a few more and batch them up, but it looks like it's just this one19:25
AJaegeryeah, nothing else on the radar so far19:25
fungianybody up for a (quick) project rename maintenance soon?19:25
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fungionline reindexing worked well last time, so we don't need those massive outages any longer it seems19:25
clarkbnext week is major holiday week if I have done my maths right19:26
clarkbso likely needs to happen this week or the week after19:26
fungijust a brief window to make the filesystem/db/group changes and rename in gituhb19:26
clarkb(or maybe enough people don't observe said major holiday and don't mind doing it while the rest of us eat too much turkey)19:27
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fungiyeah, my calendar confirms thanksgiving holiday in the usa is next week19:28
ianwwell, i could have a go, but ... i've never done it before, and those that have might not be around19:28
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clarkbif it happens monday or tuesday I can likely be around19:28
fungii don't have much on my calendar for friday, and with it being a short maintenance i could see having a fairly short advance notification period for that if we send something to teh -dev ml today19:29
fungii'd say announce it as a 30-minute window though expect the outage to be less than 1519:30
clarkb(I will be beach bound on friday, I get to experience fungi's daily life for a weekend)19:31
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fungioh! have fun19:31
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fungii could see doing the maintenance on monday i guess19:32
fungianybody happen to know the author of that change's irc nick?19:32
fungijust wondering how best to go giving their contributors a heads up that it's changing19:32
mordredsorry for being late19:33
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fungimordred: welcome back to internets19:33
clarkbfungi: lin_yang maybe19:33
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clarkb(is in -infra)19:33
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fungiyeah, just asked in there19:34
fungiokay, so we could say monday tentative... 22:00 utc?19:34
fungiearlier? later?19:35
ianwisn't that zuul meeting?19:35
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clarkblooking at my calendar I can do before 1900UTC19:35
fungioh, yep!19:35
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clarkbotherwise its dentist appointments (ugh hate when those sneak up on you)19:35
fungihow about 18:00 utc monday then?19:35
clarkbthat I can do19:35
fungii was trying to go a little later in case ianw wanted to help19:36
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clarkboh ya, well you also don't need me19:36
clarkbor we could do tuesday after our meeting?19:36
fungii expect to be in the tc meeting at that point19:36
lin_yangThanks a lot to all of you to make rename rsc->valence happen. really appreciate19:36
fungibut i could do 22:0019:36
clarkbtc is from 2000-2100 isn't it?19:37
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fungiyep, 21:00 utc totally works for me19:37
clarkbianw: ^ that work?19:37
ianwyep, i'll be around19:37
fungilin_yang: if we rename it on tuesday (a week from today) will that be okay with you and your contributors?19:37
ianwlearn the ropes from the old sea dogs :)19:38
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lin_yangfungi: that's okay19:38
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clarkbfungi: sorry I had already offset "after our meeting" to accomodate tc meeting but didn't make that clear :)19:39
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fungi#info Gerrit will be offline for roughly 15 minutes between 21:00 and 21:30 UTC on Tuesday, November 22 for a project rename maintenance.19:39
fungidoes that look right?19:39
fungianybody want to send an announcement to the -dev ml?19:39
clarkbthat looks correct to me19:40
ianwi can send an announcement today19:40
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fungithanks ianw!19:41
fungi#action ianw send maintenance announcement for project rename19:41
fungii think we're out of topics now, other than...19:41
fungi#topic Open discussion19:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:41
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clarkbfungi: on my change to document test envs, you didn't -1 but provided a lot of feedback. Do you want that feedback addressed before merging or merge soonish and address the feedback in followups/19:42
jeblairclarkb: oh, what's the link for that change?19:43
fungiclarkb: i'm fine either way. was mostly waiting for more feedback to collect on it before either you updated it or i voted19:43
clarkbjeblair: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394566/119:43
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clarkbfungi: gotcha19:43
ianwclarkb: so what's the deal with image uploads?  we know for sure of issues with rax until next shade release, right?19:43
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fungii'm also fine if you don't address everything in there, or ask me to submit an update19:43
clarkbianw: correct, we need to restart builder today to pick up new shade (was released earlier today I think)19:43
clarkbianw: that will fix the setting of metadata on the images in rax19:43
jeblairyes, was released earlier today19:43
ianwclarkb: ok, i can do that later today my time when things are quiet19:43
clarkbianw: cool19:44
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zara_the_lemur__noting to everyone that starting tomorrow, the StoryBoard meeting is moving from 15:00 UTC 19:00UTC (same day and channel, ie: Weds in #openstack-meeting); maybe I should've put this on the agenda.19:44
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mordredianw, clarkb: do we want to finish landing ianw's logging changes for the restart?19:44
pabelangernow that https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395056/ has landed (RETRY_LIMIT patch). When do we want to schedule a restart of zuul?19:44
fungioh, great reminder. thanks zara_the_lemur__!19:44
clarkbmordred: ianw I think those got in? or did I misread things last night?19:45
ianwmordred: already landed them yesterday, so we're getting some split out logs /var/log/nodepool/upload19:45
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jeblairpabelanger: you could just do a hard-restart of all the launchers when the system isn't too busy19:45
jeblairthat's what i've been doing19:45
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jeblairoh wait19:45
jeblairthe launchers don't need to restart19:45
jeblairit's the scheduler19:46
zara_the_lemur__fungi: np. :) we'll also make sure to post something to the list in case anyone misses it here.19:46
pabelangerwill that work?19:46
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jeblairpabelanger: then i'd just save the check/gate pipelines and then restart when it's not too busy (and there's nothing in the release pipeline)19:46
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fungi#info The StoryBoard meeting time is moving 4 hours later (to 19:00 UTC Wednesdays in #openstack-meeting) starting this week.19:47
pabelangerokay, maybe I'll do that for tomorrow morning. Getting late in the day here19:47
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AJaegerpabelanger: looks rather idle now - but one change in release queue19:48
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fungipabelanger: make sure to give the release team a heads up (in #openstack-release is generally fine) before the zuul restart so they know not to approve anything until you're done19:48
pabelangerAJaeger: my only concern is I won't be around to support the restart if we go now19:48
pabelangerfungi: roger!19:49
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AJaegerpabelanger: ok, understood now19:49
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jeblairpabelanger: (also, as a special case, if the only jobs running in the release pipeline are mirror rebuilds, it's okay to restart)19:49
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fungiright, those are idempotent and will just run again soon thereafter anyway19:51
fungiso no actual loss of state by aborting them19:51
ianwpabelanger: want me to do it my afternoon?19:53
fungizuul is a ghost town during ianw's afternoon19:53
pabelangerianw: sure, if you have the time19:54
fungiwould probably be a good time, plus pabelanger would probably be around soon thereafter to monitor it19:54
pabelangerI mean, we can do it now, if people are around to help support.  I just have to run out for some family things shortly19:54
ianwok, i'll save the queues and do it about 2pm my time if that's what we want19:55
fungii don't think we're in a huge hurry. just a couple of changes stuck in check right now loping jobs19:55
fungier, looping19:55
jeblairthey're l(o)oping along19:55
AJaegerdown to one - the other got abandoned19:55
fungiahh, well, would still be good to make sure that remaining one gets reenqueued and then keep an eye on it to make sure it end with a MAX_RETRIES state19:56
fungier, make sure it endS19:56
clarkbif we want to stop it in the interim you can log into the host running the job and kill thigns until the job fails19:56
jeblairRETRY_LIMIT i think is the word we used19:56
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jeblairclarkb: it'll be a good test case :)19:56
AJaegerchange 389654 is the one19:56
clarkbjeblair: yup19:57
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AJaegerbut 397756 is running for 6 hours, so might be a canditate as well ;(19:57
fungier, right-o. i blanked on the status name19:57
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ianwso was the conclusion to restart it this afternoon, and watch that 389654 completes?19:59
fungiianw: in _your_ "this afternoon" i think, yes19:59
fungiwhich would be many of our "early tomorrow morning"19:59
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fungioh, we're out of time--thanks everyone!20:00
AJaegeryes, check that 389654 completes - there's a job getting restarted again and again, with the new change it will only be started 3 times.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov 15 20:00:25 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-15-19.02.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-15-19.02.txt20:00
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-15-19.02.log.html20:00
fungitake it away, ttx20:00
stevemarfungi: cutting it close!20:00
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fungistevemar: yeah, i like to live dangerously20:00
* fungi checks what time the keystone meeting ended today ;)20:00
stevemarfungi: that wasn't me, that was lbragstad :P20:01
fungifair enough20:01
lbragstaddid i break something?20:01
* flaper87 shakes ttx20:01
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fungiwe seem to be nearnig quorum20:02
fungier, nearing20:02
* stevemar pokes ttx20:02
* edleafe sneaks in the side door20:02
* rockyg stumbles to the back of the room20:02
flaper87and there he is!20:03
ttx#startmeeting tc20:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov 15 20:03:22 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:03
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ttxHi everyone! Sory for lateness20:03
ttxOur agenda for today:20:03
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:03
ttx(remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary)20:03
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ttx#topic Add project Tricircle to OpenStack big-tent20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Add project Tricircle to OpenStack big-tent (Meeting topic: tc)"20:04
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/33879620:04
ttxLast week we reviewed this proposal and decided to give it one more week comments20:04
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ttxEspecially to get the Neutron point of view20:04
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joehuangone second20:04
joehuangTo the concern on core_plugin which is used for Tricircle Local/Central plugin,20:04
joehuangIt's ok according to Neutron stadium evolution spec(mechnism driver not enough20:04
joehuangfor Tricircle need):(https://github.com/openstack/neutron-specs/blob/master/specs/newton/neutron-stadium.rst)20:04
joehuang" Although some plugins still use the core plugin interface to provide20:05
ttxyes, armax commented on the review, and raised /some/ concerns in terms of integration and collaboration20:05
joehuangend-to-end solutions,the criterion to enforce the adoption of ML2 and20:05
joehuangservice plugins for Neutron Stadium projects does not invalidate, nor20:05
ttxI interpreted those concerns as not being showstoppers that should prevent this experimentation to continue, though20:05
joehuangdoes make monolithic solutions deprecated. It is simply a reflection20:05
joehuangof the fact that the Neutron team stands behind composability as one20:05
joehuangof the promise of open networking solutions. During code review the20:05
joehuangNeutron team will continue to ensure that changes and design implications20:05
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joehuangdo not have a negative impact on out of tree code irrespective of whether20:05
joehuangit is part of the Stadium project or not. "20:05
flaper87ttx: ++ I interpreted those the same way20:05
ttxBut they definitely point to the need for increased collaboration between Tricircle and Neutron in the future20:05
joehuangyes, I just found reference in the neutron stadium spec on how to cooperate20:05
ttxMy hope is that being in the tent will help that collaboration, so I maintain my +120:05
dhellmannyes, I agree. it's not ideal, but we have had similar situations in the past. IIUC, even some existing official drivers do this.20:06
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dtroyerjoehuang: given the current state of the stadium, getting direct confirmation on those documents from Neutron might be a good idea20:06
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dimsdhellmann ttx : at this time we are expecting a "promise" to cooperate fully with neutron folks and jointly workout disagreements. is it?20:07
ttxdims: not really as far as I'm concerned20:07
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ttxI hope that they will work together rather than in parallel20:07
dhellmannI think all teams implicitly make the promise to work together.20:07
dhellmannOtherwise, what's the point?20:08
joehuangit's already guide how to deal with  core-plugi in the neutron stadium spec20:08
dhellmannflaper87 : maybe that's another principle for the list: "We collaborate"20:08
dimsdhellmann ++20:08
ttxOK, objections to immediate approval ?20:08
joehuangI just copied/paste above20:08
flaper87dhellmann: mmh, I thought it was tehre already20:08
dhellmannoh, maybe20:08
flaper87will check and add it to the to-write list20:08
dhellmannttx: none here20:08
dimsttx : let's do it20:08
ttxmaybe it's within the "one openstack"20:09
ttxalright, approved20:09
ttxjoehuang: welcome!20:09
joehuangthank you20:09
dhellmannwe should make sure it's called out clearly20:09
joehuangthank you all20:09
ttxdhellmann: ++20:09
dimsdhellmann : flaper87 : we need one for "Trust", seems many teams struggle with that20:09
ttx#agreed would be good to add "We collaborate" to the principles list20:10
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ttx#topic Revisit list of governed neutron projects20:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Revisit list of governed neutron projects (Meeting topic: tc)"20:10
fungiyeah, it seems like a good addition20:10
dhellmanndims : yes, we may have similar trouble with that like with the good faith item so we'll have to work on wording20:10
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/39201020:10
stevemarjoehuang: welcome :)20:10
dimsack dhellmann20:10
joehuangcontinue to sleep, have a good day, everyone20:10
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dimscongrats joehuang20:10
ttxI raised this one at the last meeting, and we discussed it briefly then20:10
mordredjoehuang: sleep well - and welcome!20:10
joehuangthank you, bye20:10
ttxThe potential issue here is the unofficialization of neutron-vpnaas, which was covered by our standard deprecation policy20:10
ttxThat policy is pretty clear when it comes to removing features from a service, but here it's a bit more fuzzy20:11
ttxbecause (1) vpnaas inherited the policy from when it was a part of neutron deliverable, and was then split out20:11
ttx(2) the feature is not completely removed, just the repo is being made unofficial (but probably left to bitrot)20:11
ttx(3) if nobody is working on it anyway, it's not as if the TC mandating anything would help20:11
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ttxI think at the very least we should raise a thread on the -operators ML to check how many people actually rely on this20:12
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mordredso - our governance is supposed to be orthogonal to git repository organization (or supposed to help the two not be in lockstep)20:12
stevemarmaybe armax can answer, but what was the neutron criteria that vpnaas did not meet ?20:12
ttxIf there is a big crowd maybe some of them will raise to maintain it in a new project team20:12
mordredif we had never split it into its own repo and it had just been in the neutron repo with only 2 cores who cared about it20:12
mordredand those 2 cores left20:12
mordredI don't think this would be a discussion20:12
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dhellmannmordred : which way do you think that conversation would have gone?20:12
armaxstevemar: a few20:12
mordredit would be a feature in neutorn that needed to go through deprecation20:12
ttxmordred: yes20:13
dhellmannmordred: yes, ok, I agree20:13
mordredand the remaining neutron cores would wince any time a patch came in for it20:13
fungistevemar: there's a spec listed as a dep of the governance change20:13
armaxstevemar: testing coverage is probably the main one20:13
dougwigthere have been several ML posts on vpnaas, and yes, they have been inactive for several cycles.20:13
mordredI'm not saying that's a no - just pointing out the difference in thinking we'd have if it wasn't in its own git repo20:13
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/383882 "Ocata: Assessment for neutron-vpnaas" change20:13
armaxstevemar: but ultimately the problem is the team is no longer there to be involved on a daily basis to keep the project afloat20:13
cdentmordred: that sounds to me like a vote in favor of repo decomposition20:13
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dhellmannarmax: you mentioned sending signals, what were those?20:13
cdent(to reify things)20:13
mordredcdent: it's not every day someone uses the word reify ... nicely done20:14
armaxdhellmann: discussions on the demise of vpnaas have happened at least during the past 3 cycles20:14
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ttxarmax: we could mark it as deprecated and let it bitrot but within neutron team20:14
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ttxmordred: is that what you have in mind ?20:14
mordredit's a theory - I'm more in favor of just pulling the trigger on this one20:14
mordredbut it's a thing I tihnk we should consider more strongly as we decompose things20:15
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armaxttx: what does that mean?20:15
ttxPersonally I think we should check with ops how much they care20:15
dougwigi think letting it rot sends a bad message.20:15
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armaxttx: if it bitrots, who is going to fix it?20:15
dhellmannarmax : were there the usual deprecation processes? adding release notes, whatever?20:15
dhellmannarmax : the neutron team owns the code for now. You've committed to a specific deprecation process.20:15
dtroyerit sounds as if the deprecation mark been placed here a couple fo cycles ago this would not be an issue at all…   pending giving ops a chance to speak up, I am also ok with just pulling it now20:15
ttxdtroyer: right20:15
stevemardtroyer: good point20:16
dtroyerdougwig: ++20:16
dougwigwe warned of this being removed for three summits running.20:16
mordredI think the reality is that it's dead - and no matter how we arrived here - it's a dead parrot20:16
flaper87dougwig: ++20:16
thingeedougwig what about the operators ML ?20:16
mordreddougwig: ++20:16
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flaper87poor parrot :(20:16
stevemardougwig: what mechanism was used to warn? mailing list? summit hallway talk? release notes?20:16
dhellmanndougwig : right, the question is just whether that notification has been done in a way that is going to reach everyone that needs to know, or if someone's going to be surprised in february that these things are not in the neutron release.20:16
dougwigoperators ML got two notices, with only a few replies.20:16
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ttxdougwig: Ah, that's good20:17
armaxdhellmann: there were none20:17
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mordredbut - it's potentially a learning case even for adding fringe features to projects that only a few of the cores care about - that we should make sure people think about moving forward20:17
dougwigsummit fishbowls, dev ML, ops ML.20:17
ttxI missed them somehow20:17
thingeedougwig thanks. with that I'm fine with pulling the trigger.20:17
dhellmannmordred : ++20:17
dougwigttx: hmm, were they not phrased in a way that would make folks take notice? that's a touch disturbing.20:17
armaxdhellmann: the project code is there, it’s been used but it’s no longer maintained adequately20:17
fungione of the arguments i saw made in an ops ml post earlier in the year is that vpnaas has been "experimental" this entire time, and only got somewhat working as of liberty20:17
dhellmannarmax : have you done a "last" release?20:17
armaxdhellmann: yes, newton being the latest20:18
ttxdougwig: no, I failed to find them in the ops ml archive -- I don't doubt they were phrased correctly20:18
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2016-May/010295.html20:18
dhellmannok, I meant has there been a release that had release notes saying "this is the last release"20:18
fungiis one from may20:18
armaxdhellmann: buy why?20:18
dhellmannarmax : because not everyone reads email, but the packagers will look at those release notes.20:18
armaxdhellmann: there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with the project per se20:18
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armaxif not lack of people who maitain and care about it on a continuous basis20:19
dhellmanndo you think there's someone waiting to pick up the maintenance?20:19
armaxdhellmann: I can see your point though20:19
armaxdhellmann: that’s what I was hoping for20:19
armaxbut in lieu of that, if you guys are ok I can make the executive decision to kill the project20:20
armaxkeep it alive for ocata and retire it in pike20:20
dtroyersometimes it takes the actual (removal in this case) to trigger the pick-up20:20
ttxOK, so I'd say we have two options here... (1) approve the patch as-is, (2) split the patch and give vpnaas another final round of warning on the Ops ML before removal.20:20
dhellmannarmax : I don't think you necessarily need to keep it the whole cycle. We could do a final release tomorrow.20:20
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fungiit's not as if this is killing vpnaas, it's just becoming unofficial because it has no team taking care of it. i don't see a problem with that20:20
flaper87I'm ok with #120:20
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dimsttx : i am comfortable with (1)20:21
armaxI honestly don’t believe it’s the right thing to do, but as dtroyer says, it’s possibly the loudest signals of all :)20:21
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mordredI'm comfortable with either20:21
dtroyerfungi: ++   it'll still be there, just not in Ocata release20:21
dhellmannfungi : are you suggesting we just make the governance change, and not add a release note that it's likely the final release?20:21
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fungialso, a follow-on step to retire the repo seems fine. it's very easy to un-retire a repo and even readd it to an official team20:21
ttxI'm fine with either as long as there is yet another notification on the -ops list20:22
dougwigthe biggest thing they lose is co-gates with neutron, which i don't think they have anything.20:22
fungii'm not opposed to having a release that refers to itself as the final release, though i don't think we've done that for other repos in the past (i'm probably wrong about that but it seems uncommon anyway)20:22
dimsso let's do #1 and request armax to post a notification to ops list20:22
ttxmaybe "final one by the neutron team"20:23
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ttxdims: ++20:23
fungiand also it would be disingenuous if the repo got resurrected back out of retirement later. how many final releases does a repo get? ;)20:23
armaxsorry, #1 being?20:23
mordredmaybe we shold add a debian-like RFA thing ...20:23
mordredto our process20:23
dims"(1) approve the patch as-is"20:23
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mordredor ITO - or what is it fungi20:23
ttxITP is intent to package20:23
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armaxdims: thanks20:23
fungi"o" is what you're thinking of mordred20:23
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fungifor "orphaned"20:24
armaxI can send an email on the ops list, it’s possible that it was send a similar one in the past, but I can’t recall20:24
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mordredI was thinking "request for adoption" - for people to signal they're moving on and want to solicit people taking over20:24
ttxarmax: that one would be "we just remove neutron-vpnaas from neutron team20:24
armaxI am sure there are ops affected20:24
armaxttx: do you want me to draft it and send it over to you first to check the wording?20:25
ttxarmax: I'm fine reviewing the wording if you want, but feel free to send it directly too20:25
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ttxObjections to immediate approval of the patch ?20:25
fungithinking more about the "final" release idea, that sends a signal that neutron doesn't want anyone to pick it up and continue working on it, so i'm unconvinced it's wise20:25
armaxfungi: right20:25
armaxfungi: that’s my sentiment too20:25
dhellmannfungi : ok, I see your point and agree on that20:26
armaxif someone picked it up and put it in the right shape I’d be happy to work with anyone to make that happen20:26
fungithis is mor of an orphaning/abandoning situation20:26
armaxI feel reluctant to kill something that has a perfectly reasonable use case20:26
ttxOK, approving now20:26
flaper87ttx: go go go go20:26
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ttxarmax: thanks for helping us figure it out20:27
ttx#topic Rearrange presentation of Principles20:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Rearrange presentation of Principles (Meeting topic: tc)"20:27
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ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/39478620:27
armaxttx: thank you, I’ll follow up on the MLs20:27
ttxclayg proposed a reordering of the principles, johnthetubaguy rebased it20:27
fungilooks like clayg wasn't going to be around to discuss this one and has left a -1 on it20:27
armaxand the rest of the things required to reflect the governance change, like project-config patches etc.20:28
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ttxok, let's skip this one20:28
ttxlooks like we can use another round20:28
ttxas he wants a positive ending note20:28
ttx#agreed let's defer to next week since it's not ready yet20:29
ttx#topic Make tc managed tag names consistent20:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Make tc managed tag names consistent (Meeting topic: tc)"20:29
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/39318520:29
ttxThis suggests basically mandating that every tag have a category20:29
fungijohnthetubaguy makes a good point about this being incomplete20:29
ttxnot incomplete, there are extra changes now20:30
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dhellmannis anyone else having trouble with gerrit?20:30
fungilooks like it still needs some tweaking for the starter-kit bit20:30
ttxwe would keep starterkit:compute as-is20:30
dimsdhellmann : seems to be working for me20:30
flaper87fungi: I did that in preivous patch sets20:30
dhellmanndims, thanks20:30
flaper87and the feedback was to keep it as-is for now20:30
ttxflaper87: but you kept some tc:starterkit-compute changes in20:30
fungiflaper87: you have starter-kit:compute renamed to tc:starter-kit-compute in some places there but not others (latest patchset that i see)20:31
ttxline 656 for example20:31
flaper87oh, crap20:31
flaper87missed that one20:31
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flaper87sorry, I can fix quickly20:31
fungiit was unclear to me which way you were going with that tag20:31
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ttxetc... use grep :)20:31
dtroyerya, there are 4 or 520:31
ttxflaper87: we are in a holding pattern, circling around the landing strip20:32
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fungii'm fine with the intent, once the implementation is cleaned up20:32
ttxyes, me too20:32
thingeecircle back?20:32
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ttxflaper87: should be starterkit:compute, no ?20:33
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funginow some of them are starter-kit-compute rather than20:33
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ttxerr :%s/starter-kit-/starter-kit:/g20:34
thingeeI believe flaper87 uses emacs.20:34
ttxthingee: that would explain20:34
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dhellmannsed -i ...20:35
ttxhe uses tabs, too20:35
dimsno pressure flaper8720:35
ttxnone at all20:35
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flaper87ok, I think it's done20:36
ttxlooks like a winner20:36
dtroyerlooks good to my tired eyes20:36
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ttxPlease pile on20:36
dhellmannflaper87 : I think you'll get a warning from sphinx because the legacy file isn't in a toctree, but we can fix that separately20:36
ttxWill approve once it passes tests20:36
ttxdhellmann: I actually like that it's not in the toctree20:36
flaper87dhellmann: I kept it out on purpose so it wouldn't be listed in the index20:37
flaper87dhellmann: is there a way to silence that warning ?20:37
ttxdhellmann: I suspect there is a magic bypass20:37
dhellmannttx: we can put it in so it's hidden and doesn't generate a warning20:37
ttxstevemar: not as shiny as the magic arrow in Gerrit20:38
ttxbut still shiny20:38
ttx#topic Remove release team tags20:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Remove release team tags (Meeting topic: tc)"20:38
dhellmannflaper87 : see the "hidden" option in http://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/1.4.8/markup/toctree.html?highlight=toctree20:38
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/39636020:38
ttxdhellmann: Want to introduce it, or should I ?20:38
flaper87dhellmann: thanks, had no idea20:38
dhellmannI can20:38
flaper87will propose a follow-up patch20:38
stevemarttx: good enough for a meeting mention but not a like on twitter?!20:38
dhellmannthis patch is a bit of cleanup for data that is now managed in the openstack/releases repository20:38
dhellmannwhen we started these tags, we thought they would be relatively stable20:38
dhellmannover the last 2 releases we've been proven wrong on that20:39
ttxstevemar: I'm not a "like" person20:39
dhellmannso we need a way to track the values for a given deliverable over time20:39
dhellmannthe releases repo is organized around release series, and is the primary consumer of the tags, so we thought it would be simplest to just move them there20:39
ttxAlso those are only used for release management and have little to do with governance20:39
dhellmannwe've added the data to the existing files in the releases repo already, so this is just removing old data to avoid confusion about which is the source of truth20:40
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dhellmannyes, that, too20:40
ttxthey also tend to change over time, while the governance repo only has one branch20:40
dhellmannmoving the data to the other repo makes it easier for teams to make adjustments20:40
stevemarfwiw the release team has been doing a wonderful job, so the more ownership they have over this stuff i'm all for it20:40
dhellmannI suspect this patch will need to be rebased after flaper87's lands20:40
smcginnisstevemar: +120:40
ttxdhellmann: probably yes + Tricircle too20:41
fungiit's definitely a rebase-magnet20:41
ttxdhellmann: ideally we would fix-and-land in meeting20:41
dhellmannah, yes, true20:41
dhellmannttx: if we can get approval here, then we can use the house rule to land it tomorrow after I've rebased it20:41
dhellmannif the patches are landing we can do that20:41
ttxdhellmann: patches are landed already20:41
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stevemarpressure is on dhellmann now20:42
dimsgo dhellmann !20:42
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ttxnobody can beat the patchmachine20:42
ttxAny objection/comment on this one ?20:42
ttxwhile dhellmann livepatches it ?20:42
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dhellmannok, updated20:43
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ttxmy Gerrit UI hangs reviewing20:45
stevemaronly conflits with 7 patches20:45
fungimine merely queues20:45
dimsi see 4 +1's20:45
dhellmannmine is very slow again, too20:45
dhellmannit was doing that on the other patches, too20:45
dimsdhellmann : weird20:45
stevemarfine for me20:45
dhellmannI missed tricircle, new version20:46
stevemarand he buckles under the pressure!20:46
fungiyeah, gerrit doesn't look like it's struggling based on the monitoring we have, so may be something more generally internet-related20:46
dhellmannPS6 should be it20:46
mordredthe internet. we've broken the internet20:46
* mordred hands the internet a nice fluffy bunny rabbit20:47
* dhellmann pulls out the plug and blows on it20:47
ttxhttps://review.openstack.org/gitweb?p=openstack/governance.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb8a0bd4cd26ca11563a1bde533811c1d87cafedif you want to review it off-Gerrit20:47
* mtreinish curses dst20:47
stevemarmtreinish: lol20:47
fungii +1'd but i'm not rereviewing that massive change, just taking dhellmann's word for it20:47
mordredmtreinish: it's the worst isn't it?20:47
dimsfungi : y me too20:47
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mordredin case you use google for the calendars - you can set the meeting time to be in Iceland and it's a surrogate for UTC20:48
mtreinishso I did have a question for this change, some of the release tags do indicate what a repo is (the plugin tags)20:48
stevemarwe've got 620:48
mtreinishI'm wondering if that has value independent of the release use case20:48
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ttxmtreinish: I don't think that's a governance thing20:48
dhellmannmtreinish : so far we've only used those (and only a few  of them) to organize releases.openstack.org20:48
ttxas far as governance goes, we only care about which repos are attached to which team20:48
dhellmannI would prefer to have a short description in text to explain what a deliverable is in governance, if we want that20:49
mtreinishdhellmann: sure, but I've had people tell me it's useful for them to have that in the governance list20:49
mtreinishdhellmann: a description works, although it isn't easily parsable20:49
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mtreinishttx: sure, I get that POV. I'm just saying I know people have found value in having it in the list of repos in projects.yaml20:50
ttxmtreinish: I can relate to that, yes20:50
fungimtreinish: i believe there are general use cases for joining datasets between governance and releases, and we talked about maybe a post job to publish a merged dataset20:50
dhellmannah, yes, that20:50
ttxyeah, we could redirect people to that20:51
mtreinishfungi: is that a thing yet? or something coming soon?20:51
fungii'd rather keep data closest to where it's used, and unduplicated, and then render reference materials that make sense from well-organized data rather than the other way around20:51
ttxShould we defer the change ?20:51
dhellmannwe were going to publish something from openstack/releases in a format that makes it easy to import into the project navigator20:51
dhellmannthe release team will coordinate with the foundation staff on that20:51
dhellmannI'd like to get rid of the duplicated release tag info asap20:52
ttxdescriptions aren't a bad idea though20:52
ttxanyway, let's approve this one while it's current and fix the gap ?20:53
ttxshouldn't take long20:53
ttxdefinitely before Ocata-220:53
ttxmtreinish: ?20:53
stevemaryes plesase20:53
mtreinishttx: wfm20:54
ttxalright it is in20:54
ttx#topic Open discussion20:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:54
ttx* New neutron subnet pool support breaks multinode testing (https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1629133)20:54
openstackLaunchpad bug 1629133 in Magnum "New neutron subnet pool support breaks multinode testing." [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Spyros Trigazis (strigazi)20:54
ttxmordred: want to talk about that one ?20:54
ttxIn other news, I could use an extra code review on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391588/ so that I can approve it under the "code changes" house rule20:54
ttxoh, fungi did review it20:54
ttxI'll approve now20:54
fungii did indeed20:54
mordredyah - this is mostly an fyi for folks - armax and kevinbenton are on top of it for now20:55
mordredbut it sits in an awkward space in terms of ownership20:55
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mordredessentially, there is a currently default behavior in devstack when neutron is enabled that does not use the FIXED_RANGE value that the gate feeds into the config ... there are valid semantic reasons for not doing so20:55
flaper87w000h000000000  badges o/ \o \o/20:56
fungii'd still like to see a portable registry of network offsets in devstack, but i don't have the bandwidth to write that myself20:56
jrollmordred: reading that bug again, I think I can prove that it's still broken, if you would like me to do that thing20:56
* amrith pulls up chair to listen to mordred20:56
mordredbut ignoring it means that routing on the host gets hosed so subsequnet internet accesses do not work20:56
fungiotherwise this is just going to come up again and again in the future20:56
amriththat issue is vile; it has trove in pieces on the floor and someone is dancing on it with hobnailed boots.20:56
mordredthis has wound up breaking several project's gates20:56
mordredyah. that20:56
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jrollironic has patched over it with configs20:57
mordredin any case - kevinbenton has the task and is running with it at the moment - but it's a thing that sits on the intersection of devstack, neutron and devstack-gate - so it's in that lovely cross-project sweet spot that makes things hard20:57
fungiright, several projects i believe have workarounds in their jobs to fix ipv4 global network access when running in osic20:57
mordredso I though ti was worth making sure everyone was aware of - and that it's important that we all get to an actual solution20:57
dhellmanndon't we usually revert changes like this to unbreak other projects while a real fix is put into place?20:57
ttxyes, we should support him however we can20:57
amrithmordred, which review is this?20:57
mordredamrith: don't know if there is a review yet - kevin took the actoin in the neutron meeting yesterday20:58
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ttxOh. While reviewing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365590/ I wondered out loud whether we should have a "we prefer 10 nice people to a 10x rockstar that happens to be abusive" principle ?20:58
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amrithok, this is my lame, half-arsed, solution to get things moving for now. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/397368/20:58
mtreinishdhellmann: iirc a straight revert would break projects who depended on the feature being enabled20:58
mordredthere is also a devstack-gate patch up to theoreically work around it ... although that did not work for you right amrith?20:58
mordredmtreinish: ++20:58
mtreinishdhellmann: but it's been a while since I looked at it20:58
clarkbmtreinish: yes that is correct20:58
amrithmordred, I didn't do it in devstack gate20:58
amrithI did it in the two jobs that I cared about20:58
clarkbmany projects already depend on subnet pools existing20:58
amrithand yes it worked20:58
amrithbut my 'workaroud' is to go back to nova networking20:59
amriththe 'fix' isn't working20:59
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amrithright now nova appears to puke and says no valid hosts are found when we try to launch a guest db20:59
mordredhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/379521 is the devstack-gate workaround20:59
mordredor, the theoretical workaround20:59
fungiright, this was less obvious before the subsequent change went in to make neutron the default in devstack jobs20:59
amrithyes, that one didn't work for us. we need more magic layered on top of that if anything.20:59
jrollamrith: ironic was able to use USE_SUBNETPOOL=False to get around for now, fwiw, maybe that can help trove out21:00
ttxwe are running out of time, I propose that people continue that discussion on #openstack-dev21:00
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ttxsince that sounds like a good venue for that21:00
amrithjroll, will try that as well21:00
mtreinishjroll: I thought trove was the project that required subnet pools21:00
amriththx ttx, wilco21:00
mtreinishor was it a different one21:00
mordredttx: yah - thanks - mostly just wanted to make sure everyone knew it was ongoing important work21:00
amrithmordred, catch you there or -infra21:00
amriththx jroll21:00
dimsthanks mordred21:00
ttxmordred: thank you for that21:00
flaper87thanks mordred21:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov 15 21:00:55 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-15-20.03.html21:00
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-15-20.03.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-15-20.03.log.html21:01
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