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| hongbin | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 3 03:00:17 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| pksingh | pksingh | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-01-03_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
| Wenzhi | Wenzhi | 03:00 |
| pksingh | Happy New Year to all | 03:00 |
| mkrai | Madhuri Kumari | 03:00 |
| kevinz | kevinz | 03:00 |
| hongbin | Thanks for joining the meeting pksingh Namrata Wenzhi mkrai kevinz | 03:01 |
| hongbin | all, happy new year | 03:01 |
| mkrai | Happy New Year all :) | 03:01 |
| Wenzhi | happy new year! | 03:01 |
| hongbin | #topic Announcements | 03:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:01 | |
| hongbin | i have no announcement | 03:01 |
| hongbin | anyone else has announcement? | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #topic Review Action Items | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| hongbin | 1. hongbin start a ML to osc team to discus the name collision issue (DONE) | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/109259.html | 03:02 |
| hongbin | after discussing with the osc team, we agreed to use the keyword 'appcontainer' to represent a zun container resource | 03:03 |
| hongbin | e.g. openestack appcontainer create/delete/.... | 03:03 |
| hongbin | any comment on this renaming? | 03:03 |
| Namrata | thanks hongbin | 03:03 |
| Wenzhi | not beautiful, but acceptable :) | 03:03 |
| hongbin | p.s. it is renamed on osc only | 03:03 |
| mkrai | LGTM | 03:04 |
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| hongbin | Namrata: np at all | 03:04 |
| hongbin | ok, sounds good | 03:04 |
| hongbin | #topic Set etcd as the default DB backend (Wenzhi) | 03:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Set etcd as the default DB backend (Wenzhi) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:04 | |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/412756/ | 03:04 |
| hongbin | Wenzhi: you want to drive this one? | 03:04 |
| Wenzhi | sure | 03:05 |
| Wenzhi | the code for etcd data model (zun_service, container, image) and etcd db api has already been landed | 03:05 |
| Wenzhi | thanks all for help on code review | 03:05 |
| Wenzhi | and I already submitted a patch to add a new pipeline to test etcd db backend | 03:06 |
| Wenzhi | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415391/ | 03:06 |
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| Wenzhi | I did some manual tests, and found some bugs in etcd api, I have a WIP patch in hand to fix the bugs | 03:07 |
| Wenzhi | will upload for review after the pipeline patch been merged | 03:07 |
| mkrai | Wenzhi: What are the rationale to make etcd to default DB? | 03:07 |
| mkrai | It will be better to write this in commit message so that reviewers understands the need for it | 03:08 |
| Wenzhi | mkrai: we've discussed that in project plan at the very beginning of Zun project | 03:08 |
| Wenzhi | the main benefit is that etcd is more fast and flexible | 03:08 |
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| Wenzhi | mkrai: will do that | 03:08 |
| mkrai | I know few of them but it is worth writing in commit message to let others know | 03:09 |
| hongbin | Wenzhi: do you have a pointer about the project plan discussion? | 03:09 |
| mkrai | Wenzhi: Thanks | 03:09 |
| Wenzhi | containers are different from VMs, the states of them changes a lot | 03:09 |
| Wenzhi | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-state-management | 03:10 |
| Wenzhi | hongbin: the link ^^ | 03:10 |
| hongbin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-state-management | 03:10 |
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| hongbin | Wenzhi: thx | 03:11 |
| Wenzhi | np | 03:11 |
| Namrata | I can try to test this feature when Hongbin's multihost patch is landed | 03:11 |
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| mkrai | that would be great Namrata | 03:12 |
| hongbin | Wenzhi: ok, it looks the rational of setting etcd as default is: the container state are changing faster than vm | 03:13 |
| Wenzhi | honbin: yes | 03:13 |
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| hongbin | Wenzhi: this rational seems valid, but not written down in the etherpad though | 03:13 |
| Wenzhi | will update the etherpad | 03:14 |
| hongbin | then, i wanted to get opinions from others | 03:14 |
| mkrai | IMO we can take decision on making it default only when we have tested it well | 03:14 |
| mkrai | hongbin: Wenzhi What do you think? | 03:14 |
| hongbin | all, what do you think about changing the default db to etcd? good idea? bad idea? | 03:14 |
| pksingh | mkrai: +1, i need to think about it | 03:14 |
| Wenzhi | mkrai: agreed | 03:14 |
| mkrai | Rational seems valid but difficult to say yes now | 03:15 |
| hongbin | ok, then we can defer the decision until the etcd backend is well tested | 03:15 |
| mkrai | Yes | 03:15 |
| pksingh | agree | 03:15 |
| Wenzhi | +1 | 03:15 |
| hongbin | ok, sound good | 03:15 |
| hongbin | next topic | 03:16 |
| hongbin | #topic Support multi-host deployment (hongbin) | 03:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support multi-host deployment (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:16 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-multiple-hosts The BP | 03:16 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415554/ The patch | 03:16 |
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| hongbin | i have submitted several patches for this bp | 03:16 |
| hongbin | the idea is to implement a simple scheduler, and specify the server in rpc | 03:17 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415554/ the wip patch | 03:17 |
| hongbin | in before, the zun-api call zun-compute without picking a server | 03:18 |
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| hongbin | then, the rpc request was sent to the first zun-compute that picked up the message | 03:18 |
| hongbin | after the patch, the zun-api will pick a server to send the request | 03:18 |
| hongbin | the goal is to make sure the rpc request will send the right host that runs the container | 03:19 |
| mkrai | hongbin: What's the filter we are using with this patch? | 03:19 |
| hongbin | that is the general idea | 03:19 |
| hongbin | mkrai: for scheduling? we didn't use any filter right now | 03:19 |
| mkrai | Yes | 03:19 |
| hongbin | mkrai: we used a random scheduler, that basically randomly picking a host | 03:20 |
| mkrai | So on what basis the compute is choosen? | 03:20 |
| hongbin | mkrai: randomly chosen :) | 03:20 |
| mkrai | Ok for initial implementation it is fine | 03:20 |
| hongbin | yes | 03:20 |
| pksingh | we need to extend the scheduler when scheduler bp is implemented , i guess | 03:20 |
| Wenzhi | sure thing ^^ | 03:20 |
| hongbin | yes, that could be a future work | 03:21 |
| Wenzhi | agreed | 03:21 |
| kevinz | +1 | 03:21 |
| hongbin | another possibility is to switch to the placement service once it is splitted out from nova | 03:21 |
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| pksingh | i need to look about placement service | 03:22 |
| hongbin | p.s. nova is splitting their scheduler out as a independent placement api | 03:22 |
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| hongbin | ok | 03:22 |
| hongbin | just fyi | 03:22 |
| mkrai | that will be best for us | 03:22 |
| hongbin | yes, if the placement service is there, we could leverage it | 03:22 |
| mkrai | hongbin: is there any link for the discussion? | 03:22 |
| hongbin | mkrai: there are several session in hte nova design summit in barcelona | 03:23 |
| mkrai | Ok I will look at them | 03:23 |
| hongbin | mkrai: i attent some sessions, possibly, there are some etherpads there | 03:23 |
| pksingh | hongbin: can we use nova docker driver and our scheduler together, i think no , right? | 03:24 |
| hongbin | pksingh: my initial thought is to use force-host option when nova driver is enabled | 03:24 |
| hongbin | pksingh: e.g. zun picked a host -> call nova with force-host -> nova creates sandbox in the specified host | 03:25 |
| pksingh | hongbin: will it disbale nova scheduler? | 03:25 |
| hongbin | pksingh: yes | 03:25 |
| pksingh | hongbin: ok seems ok | 03:25 |
| hongbin | pksingh: there might be other options to enable nova scheduler, which could be discuss further | 03:26 |
| pksingh | ok | 03:26 |
| hongbin | any other comment about the multi-host support? | 03:26 |
| hongbin | #topic Introduce pod (hongbin) | 03:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduce pod (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:27 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/introduce-pod The BP | 03:27 |
| hongbin | i will work on this bp after the multi-host bp is done | 03:27 |
| hongbin | however, i am happy to offload the work if you interest to implement this feature | 03:27 |
| hongbin | just let me know if you do | 03:27 |
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| hongbin | comments? | 03:28 |
| pksingh | hongbin: i can help | 03:28 |
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| hongbin | pksingh: ack | 03:28 |
| hongbin | pksingh: thx, will work with you later on this one | 03:29 |
| hongbin | #topic Support interactive mode (kevinz) | 03:29 |
| pksingh | hongbin: sure | 03:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support interactive mode (kevinz) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:29 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode The BP | 03:29 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396841/ The design spec | 03:29 |
| hongbin | kevinz: ^^ | 03:29 |
| kevinz | I'v finished the tty resize function and escape code decode | 03:29 |
| kevinz | https://github.com/kevin-zhaoshuai/container-interactive-client | 03:29 |
| kevinz | Now working on integration with zun , | 03:30 |
| kevinz | patch will ready this week | 03:30 |
| hongbin | awesome! | 03:30 |
| pksingh | kevinz: great :) | 03:30 |
| hongbin | looking forward to the patch | 03:30 |
| kevinz | hongbin: pksingh: OK thanks~ :-) | 03:31 |
| hongbin | kevinz: just 2 cents, the first patch doesn't need to be perfect, it could be just a prototype. | 03:31 |
| pksingh | agree with hongbin | 03:31 |
| kevinz | Yeah, I think so | 03:32 |
| hongbin | kevinz: it could help because reviewers could give you earlier feedback based on that | 03:32 |
| hongbin | kevinz: ok | 03:32 |
| hongbin | kevinz: thanks for your hard work on this one | 03:32 |
| kevinz | Good ~ I will firsh implement "zun attach" and then "run" and exec | 03:32 |
| hongbin | sound like a good plan | 03:33 |
| kevinz | hongbin: My pleasure~ Thanks for your help | 03:33 |
| hongbin | np | 03:33 |
| hongbin | any other remark on this one? | 03:33 |
| kevinz | No more comments now :-) | 03:34 |
| hongbin | thanks kevinz | 03:34 |
| hongbin | #topic Make Zunclient an OpenStackClient plugin (Namrata) | 03:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Make Zunclient an OpenStackClient plugin (Namrata) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:34 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/zun-osc-plugin | 03:34 |
| hongbin | Namrata: ^^ | 03:34 |
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| Namrata | I have submitted 4 osc command plugins | 03:34 |
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| Namrata | and simultaneously working on spec as suggested by stevemar | 03:35 |
| hongbin | i see | 03:36 |
| Namrata | I will submit the spec this week | 03:36 |
| hongbin | Namrata: i think just a simple spec would be enough | 03:36 |
| Namrata | okay great. | 03:37 |
| hongbin | Namrata: i mean the design of the osc plugin is already clear, no need to spend too much time on the spec | 03:37 |
| Namrata | okay | 03:37 |
| hongbin | btw, the 4 patches look good | 03:38 |
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| Namrata | Thanks hongbin | 03:38 |
| hongbin | Namrata: thanks for working on this feature | 03:38 |
| hongbin | comments from others? | 03:38 |
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| Namrata | My pleasure.thanks for reviewing | 03:39 |
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| hongbin | #topic Open Discussion | 03:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:39 | |
| hongbin | anyone has additional topic to bring up? | 03:40 |
| pksingh | i agree with sudipta view on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415704/ | 03:40 |
| pksingh | can we abandon this patch | 03:40 |
| mkrai | I think we all have the same thought on this | 03:41 |
| hongbin | pksingh: we can ask the contributor to abandon the patch | 03:41 |
| pksingh | yes, i agree | 03:41 |
| hongbin | +1 | 03:41 |
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| hongbin | any other topic | 03:42 |
| hongbin | ok, all, thanks for joining the meeting | 03:43 |
| hongbin | #endmeeting | 03:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 03:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 3 03:43:09 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-01-03-03.00.html | 03:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-01-03-03.00.txt | 03:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-01-03-03.00.log.html | 03:43 |
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| saggi | #startmeeting karbor | 09:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 3 09:00:39 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'karbor' | 09:00 |
| saggi | Hi everyone | 09:00 |
| yinwei_computer | hi | 09:00 |
| yuval | Hey :) | 09:00 |
| edisonxiang | hello | 09:01 |
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| zhonghua | hi | 09:01 |
| saggi | Talking to you all from Chengdu | 09:01 |
| saggi | ! | 09:01 |
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| saggi | 🎉 | 09:01 |
| leon_wang | hi | 09:01 |
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| chenying_ | hi | 09:01 |
| zengchen | hey! | 09:01 |
| zhonghua | saggi: :) | 09:01 |
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| yinwei_computer | I'm on remote site | 09:02 |
| saggi | I've been busy this week so I didn't have a lot of time to review | 09:02 |
| saggi | There also doesn't seem to be anything on the docket | 09:02 |
| saggi | #topic bugfixing | 09:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugfixing (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 09:03 | |
| saggi | How is this been going? Any progress? | 09:03 |
| yuval | we have some dashboard things open | 09:03 |
| yuval | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1643331 | 09:03 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1643331 in Karbor "karbor-dashboard: provider is being get for each checkpoint" [Low,Triaged] | 09:03 |
| yuval | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1622594 | 09:03 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1622594 in Karbor "Update checkpoint status in checkpoint page" [Medium,Triaged] - Assigned to chenying (ying-chen) | 09:03 |
| yuval | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1643338 | 09:03 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1643338 in Karbor "karbor-dashboard: Missing Plan edit - change resource and parameters" [High,Triaged] | 09:03 |
| saggi | Only one is assigned | 09:04 |
| yuval | also, protection plugin adjustment are required and I think work on them has already began by chenying | 09:04 |
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| chenying_ | yuval: Yes I will work on the glance protection plugin adjustment first. | 09:05 |
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| yuval | xiangxinyong here? | 09:05 |
| edisonxiang | yeah, I am here | 09:06 |
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| saggi | edisonxiang: can you work on the remaining bugs? | 09:06 |
| yuval | edisonxiang: :) | 09:06 |
| saggi | 1643338 and 1643331 | 09:06 |
| edisonxiang | sure | 09:07 |
| yinwei_computer | I find one bug unassigned, which I think Luobin or I could fix it. | 09:07 |
| yinwei_computer | https://bugs.launchpad.net/karbor/+bug/1554851 | 09:07 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1554851 in Karbor "Support pagination for protectables" [Low,Triaged] | 09:07 |
| edisonxiang | https://launchpad.net/karbor/+milestone/ocata | 09:07 |
| edisonxiang | every thing is here. | 09:07 |
| chenying_ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/karbor/+bug/1554851 I have addressed the comment in this bug. Maybe we need think more about pagination for protectables API. | 09:08 |
| chenying_ | Not all the protectables plugins can support pagination feature. | 09:08 |
| yinwei_computer | chenying_, we could talk about the bug offline | 09:08 |
| chenying_ | yinwei_computer: Ok | 09:08 |
| yinwei_computer | got your point, if plugins don't support list with anchor, there's no way to support pagination @chenying_ | 09:10 |
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| chenying_ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/karbor/+bug/1650239 This bug will be submitted base on chenzeng's client patch. | 09:10 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1650239 in Karbor "Support clients with privileged user in karbor" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to chenying (ying-chen) | 09:10 |
| chenying_ | yinwei_computer: Yes. | 09:10 |
| zengchen | I hope everyone can reivew my patch on the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/karbor/+bug/1566793 | 09:10 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1566793 in Karbor "authenticate in protection service client" [High,In progress] - Assigned to zengchen (chenzeng2) | 09:10 |
| edisonxiang | 1643338 and 1643331 have already been assigned to me:) | 09:11 |
| yuval | zengchen: which? I found two, but both are workflow -1 | 09:12 |
| saggi | 😁 | 09:12 |
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| zengchen | yuval:you can see them listed in the comments at 'https://bugs.launchpad.net/karbor/+bug/1566793'. yes, 2 patches of them are workflow -1, but other ones are ready. | 09:14 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1566793 in Karbor "authenticate in protection service client" [High,In progress] - Assigned to zengchen (chenzeng2) | 09:14 |
| yuval | zengchen: will take a look | 09:14 |
| zengchen | yuval:like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404644/. thank you. | 09:15 |
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| yuval | zengchen: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407990/ is in merge conflict | 09:17 |
| yuval | zengchen: so is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/408382/ | 09:17 |
| zengchen | yuval:ok, I will update them. | 09:17 |
| yinwei_computer | two patches on this bug? @zengchen | 09:17 |
| zengchen | yinwei_computer:there are 4. | 09:19 |
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| zengchen | yinwei_computer:you can review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404644/ first. | 09:20 |
| yinwei_computer | I see those 4 in launch pad. | 09:21 |
| yinwei_computer | thanks for fixing it! | 09:21 |
| zengchen | yinwei_compute:yes, if you have time, review them. thanks. | 09:22 |
| saggi | Anything important for me to go over? | 09:22 |
| yuval | we should starting closing the multi tenant isolation | 09:22 |
| yinwei_computer | @zengchen, I will | 09:23 |
| yinwei_computer | is there any bug I or Luobin could help on? @yuval @saggi | 09:23 |
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| saggi | yuval: ^^ | 09:24 |
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| yuval | saggi: I don't really recall where we were on the multi tenant issue | 09:24 |
| yuval | saggi: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 09:24 |
| saggi | We have a spec up | 09:24 |
| yuval | saggi: will have to read the spec again | 09:24 |
| chenying_ | yinwei_computer: You can see the bugs list in launchpad. Some of them are not marked 'Assigned'. | 09:25 |
| yuval | ಥ_ಥ | 09:25 |
| saggi | The main objection is that it requires creating a lot of providers. | 09:25 |
| saggi | Since we can't figure out how to do templating | 09:25 |
| saggi | The current solution can evolve to templated providers if we ever figure it out so it shouldn't block the spec. | 09:26 |
| saggi | IMHO | 09:26 |
| yinwei_computer | maybe we could have more details on how to map keystone users/groups to bank users/groups | 09:27 |
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| yinwei_computer | in the spec | 09:28 |
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| chenying_ | We also need think about the datbase bank use case . | 09:29 |
| yinwei_computer | what's your opinion on tenant isolation (cross site authentication), chenying_ | 09:29 |
| saggi | The spec purposefully ignores this since it's a policy issue. We don't know how the admin would decide to map those with providers. I could add an example. | 09:29 |
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| yinwei_computer | yes, that'll be better | 09:30 |
| saggi | I'll add a comment | 09:31 |
| saggi | so I don't forget | 09:31 |
| chenying_ | yinwei_computer: I have addressed some comments, I will review it again if it have been updated. My oppion is that we need think over about the cross-site use case first. | 09:31 |
| edisonxiang | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372846/ I saw this patch is submitted by leon_wang. | 09:32 |
| chenying_ | saggi have updete the newest patch about it. | 09:33 |
| saggi | edisonxiang: I took over it | 09:33 |
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| edisonxiang | saggi: understood. | 09:33 |
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| saggi | I think we are done with bugs for today | 09:35 |
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| saggi | #topic Open Discussion | 09:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 09:36 | |
| saggi | Anything else? | 09:36 |
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| saggi | OK | 09:38 |
| saggi | Thanks everyone! | 09:38 |
| saggi | #endmeeting | 09:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 09:38 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 3 09:38:28 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:38 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-01-03-09.00.html | 09:38 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-01-03-09.00.txt | 09:38 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-01-03-09.00.log.html | 09:38 |
| edisonxiang | :) bye | 09:38 |
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| yanyanhu | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 3 13:00:01 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hello, everyone | 13:00 |
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| Ruijie_ | evening, yanyanhu :) | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Ruijie_ | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | lets wait for while for other attenders | 13:01 |
| XueFeng | hi, yanyan,ruijie | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | hi, XueFeng | 13:01 |
| XueFeng | good evneing | 13:02 |
| Qiming | hi | 13:02 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming | 13:02 |
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| yanyanhu | here is the agenda, please feel free to add topics https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Agenda_.282017-01-03_1300_UTC.29 | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | ok, lets get started | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | #topic ocata workitem | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ocata workitem (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:03 | |
| yanyanhu | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-ocata-workitems | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | lets get through the list first | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | enhance tempest API test | 13:03 |
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| yanyanhu | for our versioned request support has been done, this item can be started | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | although with low priority maybe | 13:04 |
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| yanyanhu | please feel free to claim and work on it | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | next one | 13:04 |
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| yanyanhu | health management | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | hi, lxinhui | 13:05 |
| lxinhui | hi | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | there has been some dicussion on the spec | 13:05 |
| lxinhui | Yes | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | about mistral workflow for HA | 13:05 |
| lxinhui | https://review.openstack.org/414979 | 13:05 |
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| lxinhui | In the past week, there are many discussion there. | 13:06 |
| lxinhui | I think finally the chained recover actions design are the best | 13:06 |
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| lxinhui | if my understanding is right, we need to implment do-worklfow in profile | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | Yes, and I think Qiming gave a great suggestion that we can use workflow to manage the entire recovery progress and also use it perform operation before/after node recovery | 13:07 |
| lxinhui | then pre-op, post-op, and the action can call the workflow channel | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | just I'm also not sure where is the best place to implement do_workflow logic | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | lxinhui, yes | 13:08 |
| lxinhui | where do you suggest? | 13:08 |
| lxinhui | yanyanhu | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | well, I thought health manager is the better place | 13:08 |
| lxinhui | how? | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | but after more thinking, I feel profile could be better now | 13:09 |
| lxinhui | directly call workflow? | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | lxinhui, if so, yes | 13:09 |
| lxinhui | as a parallel option of cluster recover? | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | just I'm now feeling health manager should be a module to hold more generic logic | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | but mistral workflow is openstack-specific conception | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | (at least for mistral workflow) | 13:10 |
| lxinhui | that is kind of hack for me | 13:10 |
| Qiming | the current operation sequence is like this | 13:10 |
| lxinhui | I look at the health manager like a extention of senlin engine service | 13:11 |
| Qiming | 1. user request an explict cluster recover operaiton | 13:11 |
| lxinhui | but the action and policy as plugin framework | 13:11 |
| Qiming | 2. a cluster recover operation triggered by the detection logic | 13:11 |
| Qiming | in both cases, we are initiating a CLUSTER_RECOVER action, which is subject to check by the health poliy | 13:11 |
| Qiming | if there is no health policy attached, the default behavior would be recreate | 13:12 |
| Qiming | in health policy, we are trying to tune that action to be executed | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | once that action, e.g. REBUILD, REBOOT, "RUN A WORKFLOW" is determined by the policy | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes. If the mistral workflow is operated before/after recovery action, obviously implementing it in health policy will be the choice | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | just like what we are doing for lb policy I think | 13:13 |
| Qiming | the CLUSTER_RECOVER action will call the base profile to do the job | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | but if we use mistral workflow to drive the entire recovery progress, the situation becomes a little complicated... | 13:14 |
| lxinhui | it is not only for aspect calling now | 13:14 |
| Qiming | maybe we can trigger all recovery actions there | 13:14 |
| lxinhui | yanyanhu, workflow is one option, even one step of whole recover process | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, all recovery actions? you mean node rebuild/reboot and also workflow operations? | 13:15 |
| lxinhui | mistral is not the driver but senlin does | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | lxinhui, yes, just we need to consider where to implement the workflow exection logic | 13:16 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, yes | 13:16 |
| lxinhui | that is question I proposed :) | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | I see. if so, profile should be the place to hold it? | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | like do_recovery | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | only the base profile | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | it is dirty ... | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | that is | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | or another option is we parse the list of actions user specified in the policy spec | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | I also feel only implementing it in base profile can help to avoid code duplication. | 13:18 |
| Qiming | if it is a workflow, we invoke it directly, as another action | 13:18 |
| lxinhui | what code duplication? | 13:18 |
| lxinhui | something I mist here | 13:18 |
| Qiming | if it is a builtin action or profile operation, we return that in action.data | 13:18 |
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| lxinhui | duplicate with what? | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, invoke it directly in health manager? | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | health manager is only for the health detection side | 13:19 |
| Qiming | it is not a "manager" | 13:19 |
| lxinhui | yes, yanyanhu | 13:19 |
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| lxinhui | it is not the right place | 13:19 |
| yanyanhu | lxinhui, I mean if the workflow execution logic(do_workflow maybe) is not implemented in profile base, you may need to add do_workflow method for every profile type who needs this logic | 13:19 |
| Qiming | There are possibilities that users explicitly request a cluster to be recovered | 13:19 |
| Qiming | thus the action sequence is not triggered from the health manager | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, I see | 13:20 |
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| yanyanhu | so that will be part of recovery action | 13:20 |
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| yanyanhu | so workflow exection logic will be part of do_recovery action impelementation | 13:20 |
| lxinhui | i think so | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | yup, in current design, workflow is only used for recovery's purpose | 13:20 |
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| yanyanhu | I see | 13:21 |
| lxinhui | we use use type to switch to workflow | 13:21 |
| lxinhui | s/use/can/g | 13:21 |
| Qiming | considering that we will have to support a list of actions (with and without workflow as action types), placing the iteration logic in base profile sounds fine to me | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | the parameter passing logic is there, just ... we don't have the code to parse and execute more than one action | 13:23 |
| Qiming | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/engine/actions/cluster_action.py#n657 | 13:23 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, action is the atomic operation for us | 13:23 |
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| yanyanhu | so combination of actions should be done at higher level, e.g. API or rpc | 13:24 |
| Qiming | line 658 is only extracting the first action for execution | 13:24 |
| lxinhui | yes | 13:24 |
| lxinhui | And no one review the SDK patch... | 13:24 |
| lxinhui | the api twist patch of mistral has been merged | 13:25 |
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| yanyanhu | lxinhui, good news :) | 13:25 |
| Qiming | another place is here: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/engine/node.py#n368 | 13:25 |
| lxinhui | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/414919/3 | 13:26 |
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| Qiming | lxinhui, it is not done | 13:26 |
| Qiming | that patch still has tons of problems | 13:26 |
| lxinhui | please review | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | just I still free that workflow is not a generic conception... | 13:27 |
| Qiming | will do | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | doesn't like other logic we defined in cluster action module | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | or in node module | 13:27 |
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| Qiming | lxinhui, you missed '_query_mapping' in those classes, the current code only support create, but allow_get is already there, 'include_output' is only a query parameter, ... | 13:28 |
| lxinhui | let us finish it little by little | 13:29 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:29 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, you can think of it as creating a ceilometer alarm | 13:29 |
| lxinhui | need read more code of sdk | 13:29 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | but we usually support those service specific operations in plugins | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | I feel | 13:31 |
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| yanyanhu | not in generic modules, like node, cluster, or action modules | 13:31 |
| Qiming | yes, we will add drivers for workflow | 13:31 |
| lxinhui | yanyanhu, seems you like AOP more than workflow | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, I mean maybe we need to wrap and abstract mistral workflow? | 13:32 |
| Qiming | we can invoke workflow APIs from the health policy | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | lxinhui, AOP is? | 13:32 |
| lxinhui | just joke | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:32 |
| lxinhui | Qiming mentioned the concept in his mind last time :) | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, that makes more sense to me | 13:32 |
| Qiming | the problem is that it will be difficult to build dependencies if some actions are triggered in policy, others are in profiles | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, right, that is a headache | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | till now, we either talk to backend service during action execution, or before/after action progress | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | but not at the same time | 13:34 |
| Qiming | right | 13:34 |
| Qiming | so I'm thinking if this is the proper location to iterate all the action items and execute them one by one | 13:35 |
| Qiming | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/engine/node.py#n368 | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | you mean here? http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/engine/node.py#n380 | 13:36 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:36 |
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| yanyanhu | so it will fall into profile | 13:36 |
| Qiming | that is only capable of doing some builtin operations | 13:36 |
| Qiming | not workflows | 13:36 |
| Ruijie_ | this feature also fit heat stacks? | 13:36 |
| Qiming | yes, Ruijie_ | 13:36 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:36 |
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| yanyanhu | Ruijie_, yes, also dockers | 13:37 |
| Qiming | we provide knives | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | we hope so :) | 13:37 |
| Qiming | you decide how to use it | 13:37 |
| lxinhui | yes, I think so depspite little mess is heat can call mistral too | 13:37 |
| Qiming | kill people or cook meal | 13:37 |
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| yanyanhu | yep, that is the logic | 13:37 |
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| yanyanhu | so maybe we start from node.py | 13:38 |
| lxinhui | again, alike ceilometer... | 13:38 |
| Qiming | we won't be responsible for debugging the workflows | 13:38 |
| lxinhui | sure | 13:38 |
| Qiming | uses decide how to write workflows to operate a specific nova server, heat stack, ... etc. | 13:39 |
| lxinhui | precondition is that users have their own trusted workflow | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | yes, we just help to trigger it according to the rule user defines | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | in the right place at the right time | 13:39 |
| lxinhui | mean people :) | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | :P | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | there are possibilities users trigger a workflow on a stack which was meant to be used on VM | 13:41 |
| Qiming | but that possibility is small | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | you won't use the same health policy on clusters of different types of entities | 13:41 |
| Qiming | at least I will call that stupid | 13:41 |
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| yanyanhu | yes | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | so lxinhui, maybe you can finish the spec based on this discussion | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | and we can talk more about the implementation detail later | 13:42 |
| Qiming | just like you want to delete a cinder volume using 'nova delete', ... it won't work, for sure | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:42 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:42 |
| Qiming | let's move on | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | ok, lets move on | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | senlinclient test | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | hi, XueFeng, you're working on it now? | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | don't think so ... need a starting point I think | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 13:44 |
| Qiming | one simple test, plust gate setup | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:44 |
| Qiming | then people can share the jobs adding test cases | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | that will be the basement | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | ok, will check this work later | 13:44 |
| Qiming | basement is floor -1 | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | haha, yes | 13:44 |
| Qiming | :D | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | ok, next one | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | renaming service calls | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | saw lots of patches for it last week | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | I think it hasn't been done yet? | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | didn't check the code... | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | but anyway, not very difficult work | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | ok, next one | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | container profile | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei is not here I think? | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | and those two patches have been merged | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | will remove them from the etherpad | 13:46 |
| Qiming | it's almost done I think | 13:46 |
| Qiming | OMG, it is done | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | yes, it is done | 13:46 |
| Qiming | call2, reqquest_context2 all removed ... | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | have removed them :) | 13:46 |
| Qiming | amazing | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | cool | 13:47 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, the configure option has also been removed | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:47 |
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| yanyanhu | so we have finished the switching | 13:47 |
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| XueFeng | hi, come back | 13:47 |
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| yanyanhu | so that's all in the list | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | hi, XueFeng | 13:47 |
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| XueFeng | about client test | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | we just talked about the test job for client | 13:48 |
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| yanyanhu | maybe a simple test case plus gate job setting up will be a good startpoint | 13:48 |
| XueFeng | Will ping you tomorrow | 13:48 |
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| yanyanhu | then more people can jump into it :) | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | XueFeng, sure, thanks a lot :) | 13:49 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, next topic | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | #topic Adopt existing VM for scaling | 13:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adopt existing VM for scaling (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:49 | |
| yanyanhu | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/%E5%BC%B9%E6%80%A7%E4%BC%B8%E7%BC%A9%E7%BB%84%E6%94%AF%E6%8C%81%E6%B7%BB%E5%8A%A0%E4%BA%91%E4%B8%BB%E6%9C%BA | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | WOW... | 13:49 |
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| yanyanhu | here is a etherpad created by eldon from cmcc | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | about adopting exiting vm(s) for scaling | 13:50 |
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| yanyanhu | please feel free to leave your comments if you're interest about this topic :) | 13:50 |
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| yanyanhu | may need an english version for it... | 13:51 |
| Ruijie_ | called "add an exiting node to cluster", I guess | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | any question about it? | 13:51 |
| Qiming | just adoption would be okay | 13:52 |
| Ruijie_ | will this combined with another workflow | 13:52 |
| Qiming | it may and may not be related to scaling | 13:52 |
| Ruijie_ | copy an vm's spec and use it to create VMs | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | yes, adoption can be individual from scaling | 13:52 |
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| yanyanhu | s/can be/is | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | orthogonal | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | I learn this word from Qiming, haha | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | so guys, please read it and share your ideas | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | so lets move on? | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | 5 minutes left | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | #topic meetup | 13:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "meetup (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:54 | |
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| yanyanhu | so here is the question. Who you guys can join it if we hold a meetup in Beijing :) | 13:54 |
| * Ruijie_ :) | 13:55 | |
| elynn | I can ;) | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | or you will join it, you know the haze :P | 13:55 |
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| yanyanhu | elynn, me too :) | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | cool, someone volunteered to pay the bill, \o/ | 13:55 |
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| yanyanhu | so just want to listen to your idea, especially who are now based on Beijing | 13:55 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, haha | 13:55 |
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| yanyanhu | that will decide the size of our meetup | 13:56 |
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| XueFeng | In BeiJing?When? | 13:56 |
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| yanyanhu | XueFeng, should before china spring festival | 13:57 |
| elynn | free coffee serving :) | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | but haven't decided yet | 13:57 |
| XueFeng | OK. | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, that's good enough :) | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | XueFeng, where are you working at now? | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | not in Beijing? | 13:57 |
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| yanyanhu | since if not, there will be travel fee need to cover :) | 13:58 |
| XueFeng | NanJing,haha | 13:58 |
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| yanyanhu | not far :) | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | ok, maybe we can talk about this offline before you guys make decision | 13:58 |
| lxinhui | Nanjing is a good place :) | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | just want to remind we have the plan to hold it | 13:58 |
| elynn | lxinhui, agree | 13:58 |
| elynn | :D | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | I will ask you guys tomorrow in senlin channel | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | and lets decide it together | 13:59 |
| lxinhui | :) | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | great | 13:59 |
| XueFeng | Will apply for this tommorrow | 13:59 |
| XueFeng | Maybe it's ok. | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | meetup and talk are always pleased | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | pleasing | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | XueFeng, cool | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | ok, time is over | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | thanks all you guys for joining | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | have a good night | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | ttyl | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 3 14:00:25 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-01-03-13.00.html | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-01-03-13.00.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-01-03-13.00.log.html | 14:00 |
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| stevemar | ping agrebennikov, amakarov, annakoppad, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, chrisplo, crinkle, davechen, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, edtubill, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hrybacki, jamielennox, jaugustine, jgrassler, knikolla, lbragstad, kbaikov, ktychkova, morgan, nisha, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, spilla, srwilkers, StefanPaetowJisc, stevemar, topol | 18:00 |
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| rodrigods | hi | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | first 2017 meeting | 18:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| ayoung | Heyo | 18:00 |
| hrybacki | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 3 18:00:46 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| gagehugo | o/ | 18:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| jaugustine | Happy 2017 | 18:00 |
| lamt | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:00 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:00 |
| gagehugo | Happy New Year! | 18:01 |
| stevemar | happy new year all :) | 18:01 |
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| morgan | o/ | 18:01 |
| * morgan yawns and needs coffee | 18:01 | |
| samueldmq | hi o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | looks like we have enough people to start :) | 18:02 |
| morgan | stevemar: hah. | 18:02 |
| stevemar | hopefully everyone is well rested and fully recharged ! | 18:02 |
| morgan | rested? nope, i could use another 2-3 weeks off :P | 18:02 |
| gagehugo | ^ | 18:02 |
| lbragstad | morgan :) | 18:02 |
| breton | it is still holidays in russia | 18:03 |
| breton | for the next week | 18:03 |
| dstanek | morgan: ++ | 18:03 |
| stevemar | no one went overboard on doing things over the holidays, so thanks for that | 18:03 |
| stevemar | breton: thanks for the heads up, enjoy the time off :) | 18:03 |
| stevemar | #topic announcements | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| stevemar | time to Register for PTG ! | 18:03 |
| stevemar | #link https://www.eventbrite.com/e/project-teams-gathering-tickets-27549298694 | 18:03 |
| breton | stevemar: meh, time off is for the weak :p | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | thought that went up months ago? | 18:04 |
| stevemar | breton: your tune will change eventually :) | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: hmm? | 18:04 |
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| samueldmq | 186 tickets lef | 18:04 |
| samueldmq | left | 18:04 |
| stevemar | looks like 186 left | 18:04 |
| stevemar | this is essentially replacing the midcycle | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | fwiw - there is a refund process I believe | 18:04 |
| breton | that's a lot | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | so if you do register, and can't make it you can get your money back | 18:05 |
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| gagehugo | you can transfer tickets too I believe | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: refund process for the PTG ticktes ? | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | tickets* | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | samueldmq yes | 18:05 |
| breton | yes, PTG tickets are refundable | 18:05 |
| stevemar | i put my travel request in for work, as soon as it's approved i'm buying | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | oh that's nice | 18:05 |
| stevemar | there should be an operator or two there, mfisch i think | 18:06 |
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| morgan | i already got my ticket. | 18:06 |
| morgan | i need to do the hotel thing though | 18:06 |
| stevemar | there are a few other hotels around, but try to book at the conference hotel | 18:06 |
| gagehugo | morgan: same | 18:07 |
| gagehugo | not sure what hotels are going to be | 18:07 |
| morgan | gagehugo: annnnnd airfare.. but that can wait :P | 18:07 |
| gagehugo | yup | 18:07 |
| stevemar | hotel booking through foundation discounted price: https://www.starwoodmeeting.com/events/start.action?id=1609140999&key=381BF4AA | 18:07 |
| morgan | oooh starwood. | 18:08 |
| stevemar | alright, next sub topic | 18:08 |
| stevemar | #topic What question should we ask our users in the next user survey | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "What question should we ask our users in the next user survey (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:08 | |
| stevemar | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/109500.html | 18:08 |
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| stevemar | any ideas on this? I think last time i asked about what kind of user store is used, sql / ldap / federation / mix | 18:09 |
| morgan | something something distributed | 18:09 |
| morgan | multi-az | 18:09 |
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| morgan | try and hammer down the story for that. | 18:09 |
| ayoung | What federation protocols do they need support for? | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | ayoung ++ | 18:09 |
| stevemar | we only get 1 question unfortunately | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | that might give us some direction on the work dstanek is doing with native saml support | 18:10 |
| dstanek | stevemar: 1 really/ | 18:10 |
| breton | how much policy files are changed | 18:10 |
| ayoung | me, we know we need SAML and openidc | 18:10 |
| ayoung | what roles do people want | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | breton yeah - that would be a good one, too | 18:10 |
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| morgan | so 3 options imo | 18:11 |
| lbragstad | can it be an essay question? ;) | 18:11 |
| dstanek | what is keystone lacking? | 18:11 |
| breton | nobody knows what keystone is lacking. | 18:11 |
| dstanek | breton: then it's done! | 18:11 |
| lbragstad | "In 500 words or less, what do we need to work on? | 18:11 |
| breton | i tried asking a lot and everyone wants it to "just work" | 18:11 |
| morgan | 1) policy, 2) something something multi-az how many etc needed, 3) native saml? | 18:11 |
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| lbragstad | morgan ++ | 18:12 |
| stevemar | reply back to the ML if you can about your suggestion | 18:12 |
| stevemar | otherwise i'll pick one of the ones here | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | I think we could use some more feedback on policy - that kind of information is always hard to come by | 18:13 |
| ayoung | morgan, what do you mean by multi az? | 18:13 |
| morgan | 4) Write an Essay covering all aspects of keystone you are curtrently using and wish to have in the future. Use proper grammar, this essay will be graded on a 1-5 scale. | 18:13 |
| morgan | must be 1000 words or more, no more than 15 pages | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | I agree a great question would be something that will help us to set a long term goal starting/continuing in next cycle | 18:13 |
| breton | nobody except us wants something in keystone | 18:13 |
| breton | people want some concept | 18:13 |
| breton | like "policy" | 18:13 |
| morgan | ayoung: how many azs are folks really running single keystone in, how many are they trying to scale out to (single = single shared store), why single shared store/issues with it/latency/etc. | 18:14 |
| stevemar | breton: yeah, i understand what you mean | 18:14 |
| breton | (it's the one i heard a lot btw) | 18:14 |
| morgan | ayoung: it's just a request we keep getting asked about. | 18:14 |
| ayoung | what is an az? | 18:14 |
| samueldmq | but if the public is usign/testing, tehy know what keystone is abou | 18:14 |
| samueldmq | about | 18:14 |
| morgan | availability zone, datacenter, discreet cloud install, pick your poison | 18:15 |
| ayoung | Ahhhh | 18:15 |
| ayoung | I was reading it a authz....got it | 18:15 |
| stevemar | let's go with the scaling question | 18:15 |
| morgan | using "aws" terms since it is pretty universal :) | 18:15 |
| breton | i am afraid that with the multi-az question we are going to be asking 5-7 people | 18:15 |
| breton | because 90% of deployments are single-region | 18:15 |
| ayoung | you'd be surprised breton | 18:15 |
| morgan | i think we can refine the question and get needs/desires | 18:16 |
| ayoung | many are single region due to constraints, would like to have more | 18:16 |
| morgan | ayoung: ++ | 18:16 |
| stevemar | we could have it open ended and say "are you using multiple regions, and if not, what is stopping you" | 18:16 |
| breton | ayoung: yes. But we are basically asking them to architect for us. | 18:16 |
| ayoung | breton, many people are willing to architect it, so long as they don't have to implement it | 18:17 |
| ayoung | we can then pick and choose | 18:17 |
| morgan | stevemar: lets make it 2 way open ened | 18:17 |
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| stevemar | morgan: want to work with me on this? | 18:18 |
| morgan | stevemar: Are you using multiple regions backed by a single shared keystone (replicated or otherwise)? If so, what are the short comings you are running against and how far are you trying to scale. If not, are you looking to move to multiple regions in a shared keystone backend and/or what is stopping you (limitations)? | 18:18 |
| morgan | stevemar: something like that as a starting place. | 18:18 |
| morgan | stevemar: sure. | 18:18 |
| stevemar | rgr, lets move on | 18:18 |
| stevemar | #topic Office hours starting this Friday [lbragstad] | 18:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Office hours starting this Friday [lbragstad] (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:18 | |
| * morgan locks the door(s) to the office so we can watch lbragstad try and pick the lock. | 18:18 | |
| lbragstad | alright - this is pretty self explanatory | 18:19 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: ^ | 18:19 |
| dstanek | woot! | 18:19 |
| ayoung | morgan, suspect lbragstad would resort to chainsaw | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | last year dstanek was running office hours every friday | 18:19 |
| morgan | ayoung: truth | 18:19 |
| ayoung | or explosives | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | ayoung both are acceptable | 18:19 |
| stevemar | i'm super pumped about it | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | or mjolnir | 18:19 |
| ayoung | HA! | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | but yet | 18:19 |
| stevemar | we have a lot of little bugs to squash: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/156q820cXcEc8Y9YWQgoc_hyOm3AZ2jtMQM3zdDhwGFU/edit?usp=sharing | 18:20 |
| lbragstad | we want to restore that meeting - and see if we can get it going again | 18:20 |
| lbragstad | anyone have questions about the format? | 18:20 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: we can adapt as we go, i think the way to make it succeed to do talk about it in the channel and communicate often | 18:20 |
| lbragstad | stevemar ++ | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | just in the case someone is not looking at the etherpad | 18:21 |
| stevemar | anyone else plan on attending? :) | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | I'm totally open to finding new ways to keep the initiative afloat | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | mailing list announcement | 18:21 |
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| samueldmq | #link ttp://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/109319.html | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | etherpad | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-office-hours | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | I forsure will be blocking off most of my day to it | 18:21 |
| gagehugo | I'm definitely interested in it | 18:21 |
| dstanek | I'll be around | 18:22 |
| stevemar | 4 of us at least :) | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | 16:00 - 23:00 UTC (9:00 - 17:00 CST) | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | ^ that's my availablility | 18:22 |
| stevemar | alright, next topic ... | 18:22 |
| stevemar | #topic bumped a bunch of blueprints [stevemar] | 18:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bumped a bunch of blueprints [stevemar] (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:22 | |
| stevemar | i bumped the following to Pike: | 18:23 |
| stevemar | Native SAML in keystone | 18:23 |
| stevemar | Extend user API to support federated attributes | 18:23 |
| stevemar | Versioned federation mappings | 18:23 |
| stevemar | Per-User Auth Plugin Requirements | 18:23 |
| stevemar | Fernet Key Store | 18:23 |
| stevemar | feature proposal freeze deadline was dec 31/16 | 18:23 |
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| morgan | ++ | 18:23 |
| stevemar | native saml / versioned mapping / per-user auth had no code | 18:23 |
| stevemar | fernet store had a -2 | 18:24 |
| stevemar | and federated attributes, it's going to be a 2 parters anyway, the work for Ocata can still go in | 18:24 |
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| morgan | per-user-auth will have some code up soon, just better to delay since this is a short cycle | 18:24 |
| breton | good, i was a little struggling to get fernet key store stuff into proper shape. | 18:25 |
| stevemar | well folks can always ask for an exception | 18:25 |
| morgan | if some leading refactoring lands, great, but I don't expect the bulk of the funcational bits to land. | 18:25 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: that's nice. we have a few weeks for 3 features (in progress) and some bugs | 18:25 |
| samueldmq | sounds reasonable | 18:25 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: right, this significantly reduces the amount of new stuff landing in o-3 | 18:25 |
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| stevemar | with shadow mapping and role check being the big ones | 18:26 |
| morgan | proposal: never make a freeze happen on new years again | 18:26 |
| ayoung | Heh | 18:26 |
| lbragstad | lol | 18:26 |
| morgan | either hit that freeze before the break or after | 18:26 |
| morgan | not on. | 18:26 |
| breton | why? | 18:26 |
| stevemar | morgan: it was agreed upon at the summit, to give folks who really wanted to code on the holiday a chance to do a PoC | 18:26 |
| morgan | it's still silly | 18:26 |
| ayoung | heh | 18:27 |
| morgan | i would have pushed for 1st day back | 18:27 |
| stevemar | with the change in cycle dates i don't think it'll be an issue | 18:27 |
| morgan | anyway | 18:27 |
| morgan | not a big deal | 18:27 |
| stevemar | yah | 18:27 |
| stevemar | noted for next time (whoever runs the show after me :) ) | 18:27 |
| stevemar | looks like no questions there, will jump to next topic | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | freeze on the 1st and you'll need 3 cycles to recover | 18:28 |
| * samueldmq 's kidding | 18:28 | |
| stevemar | #topic a single policy file | 18:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "a single policy file (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:28 | |
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| ayoung | Ha! | 18:29 |
| stevemar | i was looking at using oslo.policy's in-code defaults, but then realized we have 2 policy files | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | stevemar mhmm | 18:29 |
| ayoung | stevemar, ah, you mean just for Keystone? | 18:29 |
| ayoung | cloudsample should die | 18:29 |
| stevemar | ayoung: yes, just the sample keystone provides | 18:30 |
| lbragstad | for historical context - how come we have two policy files? | 18:30 |
| ayoung | I thought you mean one policy for all OpenSrtack | 18:30 |
| stevemar | nah | 18:30 |
| ayoung | opensmack | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | I think we could transfer some checks from cloudsample to the main one if needed | 18:30 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: i lack the historical context :) | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | and then kill cloudsample | 18:30 |
| ayoung | OK, so, a lot of the issues that cloudsample exposed went into the rbac middleware design | 18:30 |
| dstanek | cloud sample is the one I use all the time | 18:30 |
| stevemar | cloud sample is more "domain-aware" | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | (this actually leads into a topic i have for the policy meeting tomorrow so I'm super curious about this history of this) | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: ++ let's make the main one domain-aware too | 18:31 |
| ayoung | can't change the default without breaking a lot of people | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | and kill the cloud sample | 18:31 |
| stevemar | i assumed what samueldmq said, move some checks over to policy.json and delete cloud sample after | 18:31 |
| ayoung | lets kills domains | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | ayoung is that because v2.0 isn't domain aware? | 18:31 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, its because people do domain operations with admin tokens scoped to projects | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | oh | 18:32 |
| ayoung | you break workflow. Horizon only recently grew domain awareness | 18:32 |
| breton | "domain operations" sounds weird | 18:32 |
| ayoung | a lot of Henry's rule writing was way too complicated to follow in cloud sample, too. Matching the scope.... | 18:33 |
| rodrigods | isn't the main policy file the one with the global admin issues? | 18:33 |
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| samueldmq | migrate and deprecate the cloud sample | 18:33 |
| ayoung | breton, "operations on domains" sound better? | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | put a notice on the top of it | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | rodrigods, they both have that | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | people using it should at least open the file (and see the notice ) :) | 18:33 |
| breton | domains sounds to me just like containers for projects and users | 18:33 |
| ayoung | it was easier to fix in cloudsample | 18:33 |
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| rodrigods | but the main one just checks "role:admin" | 18:33 |
| breton | ayoung: nah, i'm talking about the meaning of it | 18:33 |
| rodrigods | the cloudsample at least have the cloud_admin | 18:33 |
| breton | what perpose do domains serve today? | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | and the concept of domain_admins | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | rodrigods, someone needs to carry forward the 968696 work. I've been pulled off it | 18:34 |
| breton | 1. Source of users | 18:34 |
| breton | 2. ??? | 18:34 |
| samueldmq | so we saying we can't make the policy better because it'll break people ? :( | 18:34 |
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| stevemar | yeah, i like the "cloud_admin" and "domain_admin" difference that is in cloud sample | 18:34 |
| ayoung | breton, a namespace for projects | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | breton, think it is a clear separation in the cloud | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | at least, the reseller idea was going to push that way | 18:34 |
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| breton | ayoung: why do we need that? | 18:34 |
| ayoung | stevemar, we can't force roles on people either withoug breaking it | 18:34 |
| ayoung | breton, without it, project names are global | 18:35 |
| ayoung | consider the implications. | 18:35 |
| breton | ayoung: ok, so 2. namespace for projects | 18:35 |
| stevemar | looks like we need more investigation here | 18:36 |
| breton | 3? | 18:36 |
| ayoung | breton, that is it | 18:36 |
| ayoung | just the 2 | 18:36 |
| stevemar | i thought it was just created to better show the domain operations available in v3 | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | i always thought the cloudsample was going to be the main one | 18:36 |
| ayoung | rodrigods, that was one opinion | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | the only issue was the "domain_id" checking for the cloud_admin | 18:36 |
| stevemar | rodrigods: yep | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | but we have the admin project now, so... | 18:37 |
| ayoung | rope Henrynash in to any discussion on this, please | 18:37 |
| ayoung | its his bailywick | 18:37 |
| stevemar | ayoung: i was just going to do that offline :) | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | ^ that sounds like an action item | 18:37 |
| samueldmq | I also would like to hear henrynash's opinion, he's the one who originally wrote it iirc | 18:37 |
| stevemar | i'll take that as an action item | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | IMNSHO the rule in cloudsample are way too hard to follow | 18:37 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, yeah... but that's our fault | 18:38 |
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| ayoung | but they are a better "scope" check than the base policy file | 18:38 |
| rodrigods | if we want to be detailed in the rules, it needs to be written like that | 18:38 |
| stevemar | looks like it went in here: https://github.com/openstack/keystone/commit/c7a5c6cf27a80ca50db9f1a1a74e8795eeefd9d1 | 18:38 |
| stevemar | back in havana :) | 18:38 |
| ayoung | think in terms of rbac in middleware and you will see that they should be mostly scope checks | 18:39 |
| ayoung | admin in there for the rare api | 18:39 |
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| ayoung | otherwise, the domain ops rules should be allowed for anyone with the appropriate role on the domain | 18:40 |
| stevemar | i'll talk with henry about it, it was just something i was mulling over | 18:40 |
| stevemar | #topic open discussion | 18:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:41 | |
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| lbragstad | stevemar if you get henry in -keystone, i'd be happy to hop in that discussion, too | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | stevemar i'd like to start thinking about proposing a project tag for rbac support and assess using keystone as an example for other projects to follow | 18:42 |
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| lbragstad | and consolidating our policy files sounds like a good first step | 18:42 |
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| samueldmq | lbragstad: ++ | 18:42 |
| stevemar | yeah, its going to be a whole thing | 18:43 |
| stevemar | if no one has anything else we can end it early | 18:43 |
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| * stevemar is assuming quiet for 2 minutes means he can end the meeting | 18:45 | |
| stevemar | thanks for coming all :) | 18:45 |
| stevemar | welcome back | 18:45 |
| breton | yey. | 18:45 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 18:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 18:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 3 18:45:16 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-01-03-18.00.html | 18:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-01-03-18.00.txt | 18:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-01-03-18.00.log.html | 18:45 |
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| fungi | wow, not much to talk about in keystone. fifteen minutes early?!? | 18:59 |
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| fungi | infra team, welcome to the exciting future of 2017! | 19:00 |
| dstanek | we're just that good | 19:00 |
| fungi | this week we have futuristic topics proposed by AJaeger and fungi | 19:00 |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | after winning a prolonged battle against 2016 we're starting the new year with a pretty clean slate on most of our usual meeting boilerplate, so this should go quickly | 19:00 |
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| * zara_the_lemur__ is excited for the futuristic topics | 19:00 | |
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| clarkb | hello | 19:01 |
| fungi | the future won't wait, so i guess we should get started | 19:02 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 3 19:02:05 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:02 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| fungi | looks like i don't have any for this week | 19:02 |
| fungi | as always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings | 19:02 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-12-20-19.03.html | 19:02 |
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| fungi | "1. (none)" | 19:02 |
| fungi | good work! | 19:02 |
| zaro | O/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | i have to admit, i did a lot of that | 19:03 |
| fungi | not ashamed | 19:03 |
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| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | we don't seem to have anything new up this week | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Docs Publishing via AFS (AJaeger) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Docs Publishing via AFS (AJaeger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2016-December/009430.html production docs.o.o cut-over plan | 19:03 |
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| fungi | we were talking about this in irc yesterday, and it feels like we're ready to forge ahead here | 19:04 |
| fungi | the plan looks pretty solid | 19:04 |
| jeblair | i was just catching up on that this morning | 19:05 |
| AJaeger | yes, I think we're ready... | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | i had one question -- why make docs-archive.o.o? is files.o.o not sufficient for being able to retrieve a file in the (unlikely) event that we need it? | 19:05 |
| AJaeger | updated plan at http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2017-January/009436.html | 19:05 |
| AJaeger | jeblair: you cannot really follow links | 19:06 |
| AJaeger | all links to / will go to files.o.o instead of to the docs root | 19:06 |
| jeblair | okay, but i thought the archive was so that we can pull a file out and copy it over if we find it's missing | 19:06 |
| fungi | AJaeger: are they absolute, not relative? | 19:06 |
| AJaeger | it really depends - and some have docs.o.o hardcoded | 19:07 |
| jeblair | creating a new vhost to serve obsolete content seems, at best, unecessary, and at worst, actually counter productive | 19:07 |
| fungi | i guess the primary need is to have a copy of the files in case we forgot anything after we've told rackspace to tear down the cloudsites account. i'm less concerned about giving it a dedicated vhost and custom 404 forwarding but those also sound pretty cheap to add | 19:08 |
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| fungi | it does also seem like we should stop serving a dedicated site for the stale archive after some period of time, even if we do continue to keep copies of the files around | 19:09 |
| fungi | mainly to avoid confusion like jeblair mentions | 19:09 |
| jeblair | okay. it's a significant change to the plan. i'd love it if we had a good reason for it, and a plan for retiring it, etc. but i'm not going to veto it if someone wants to do that (extra) work. | 19:09 |
| fungi | i'm mostly ambivalent, though curious to see arguments for why the files.o.o interface is really insufficient | 19:11 |
| AJaeger | we can move forward without the extra vhost - and discuss the need of a vhost with the rest of the docs team. | 19:11 |
| jlvillal | o/ | 19:11 |
| jeblair | (like, to me, the fact that links don't work is not a problem as i never envisioned the purpose of this to be that we would say "oh, you're looking for that doc? it's hosted on docs-archive.openstack.org" | 19:11 |
| jeblair | i thought the purpose was to say "oh, crap, we're missing a doc, let me find it in the archive and manually copy it over") | 19:11 |
| AJaeger | my intention is indeed manually copying it over | 19:12 |
| * AJaeger checks some old emails | 19:12 | |
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| jeblair | if you make docs-archive.o.o, make sure you make a fully-exclude robots.txt | 19:13 |
| fungi | right, we really really really don't want that appearing in search engines | 19:13 |
| AJaeger | indeed | 19:13 |
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| fungi | okay, so are we at least agreed we can move forward with steps 1 and 2 for now, and discuss the necessity of step 3 with the docs team? | 19:15 |
| AJaeger | yes | 19:15 |
| jeblair | yes for 1... | 19:15 |
| fungi | what other blockers do we have for 2? | 19:16 |
| jeblair | for 2 -- i pushed up a patch to do a vos release in cron so that we could serve docs from a readonly volume | 19:16 |
| fungi | oh, that hasn't merged yet? | 19:16 |
| jeblair | i'm not sure if it landed | 19:16 |
| fungi | pretty sure i reviewed it, but checking | 19:16 |
| jeblair | AJaeger: i think you were fixing it up? | 19:16 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/400887 | 19:16 |
| * AJaeger checks | 19:16 | |
| fungi | i seem to have new-year amnesia so i don't trust my pre-holiday memories at this point | 19:16 |
| jeblair | yeah, working through some fog myself :) | 19:17 |
| AJaeger | jeblair: yes, I fixed it | 19:17 |
| jeblair | we may want to land that and create the replica volumes before doing #2 | 19:17 |
| fungi | okay, looks like i did review it | 19:17 |
| * AJaeger updates plan and adds that change | 19:17 | |
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| jeblair | (we don't *have to* but we can be more relaxed about it if we're not in production during that) | 19:18 |
| jeblair | that will let us serve docs from the readonly volumes which gives us HA on the backend storage | 19:18 |
| fungi | once #1 is done and 400887 merges and is checked out and confirmed working, should we schedule/announce a window to do #2 (the dns change) or just trust that it will be seamless enough we can announce it agter it's done? | 19:19 |
| AJaeger | anything else we want to do for that? | 19:19 |
| jeblair | that gives me a warm fuzzy | 19:19 |
| jeblair | (we can also, later, add HA/load balancing on the frontend webserver if needed, but that's separate) | 19:19 |
| fungi | s/agter/after/ | 19:19 |
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| AJaeger | since we can change back anytime if we notice problems, I'm fine with just doing it | 19:20 |
| jeblair | fungi: i vote seamless in the general case, but coordinate with docs team so they can watch for issues) | 19:20 |
| fungi | sounds fine to me | 19:20 |
| * annegentle catches up | 19:20 | |
| fungi | who from infra-root is taking point on the updated import from AJaeger's plan (item #1)? | 19:21 |
| annegentle | I was going to volunteer for 3 if I understand what's needed. | 19:21 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: nothing there that either of us can do | 19:21 |
| clarkb | ianw had done the first pass. | 19:22 |
| fungi | i think the feeling here is that none of us is entirely certain what's driving #3 in that plan | 19:22 |
| annegentle | AJaeger ah, ok | 19:22 |
| fungi | so want a better handle on the reasons and long-term maintenance of that archive | 19:22 |
| annegentle | fungi the scenario is what I keep mentioning but can't seem to get traction on - what if someone can't find something later and comes to me because I was docs PTL at the time? | 19:22 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: do we need docs-archived page or is it enough to have the archive? | 19:23 |
| annegentle | AJaeger what's the technical difference? As long as my scenario means I answer "go to this thing" I'm fine. | 19:23 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: http://files.openstack.org/docs-old/ has all the content, it's just not clickable | 19:23 |
| fungi | yeah, we don't dispute that we'll make a copy of the old content _files_ available, just disputing the driver for having it be completely rendered and usable as a documentation site on its own | 19:23 |
| annegentle | AJaeger that's probably fine | 19:23 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: and we already don't have that content anymore, we redirect /bexar /cactus etc and had removed that content ages ago | 19:23 |
| annegentle | fungi ok, then sounds like the retrieval use case is taken care of | 19:24 |
| annegentle | AJaeger right, because we thought we'd be able to build it. | 19:24 |
| annegentle | AJaeger from source | 19:24 |
| annegentle | AJaeger but that's not the case now | 19:24 |
| annegentle | AJaeger hence my concern | 19:24 |
| AJaeger | and that should still be the case. | 19:24 |
| clarkb | I can help out but don't want to take point as I am currently trying to make elasticsearch + logstash less failsauce after it went away for a week and a half over holidays | 19:24 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: old versions of our tools should be able to build old documents | 19:25 |
| annegentle | AJaeger oh, I thought you said on the ML that's not possible. Can't find the email on a quick look though. | 19:25 |
| fungi | yeah, not impossible, just tricky to put together a platform/environment contemporary with the old content suitable for rebuilding it | 19:25 |
| fungi | and not likely to be something we'd look at automating, so it would be a lot of manual effort for someone if it became necessary | 19:26 |
| annegentle | fungi oh lord, no need to automate | 19:26 |
| annegentle | fungi an outline that it's possible is fine to me | 19:26 |
| AJaeger | it's possible, yes | 19:27 |
| AJaeger | might be tricky as fungi said | 19:27 |
| annegentle | ok, then my concerns are addressed. Yeah, I get the age-old problem of aging platforms. no biggie | 19:27 |
| * AJaeger will followup on that email thread | 19:28 | |
| fungi | yep, you'd probably need to get a old ubuntu lucid (or earlier?) vm booting, and install the necessary toolchain components from versions that were released around that same timeframe | 19:28 |
| AJaeger | Here's what I propose now: http://paste.openstack.org/show/593810/ | 19:28 |
| annegentle | AJaeger with your 5) and doublechecking the rest I think it's good-to-go. | 19:29 |
| AJaeger | fungi: depends on what needs building. I expect java to run on newer distros as well - and that's the main part that we need | 19:29 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: let me add 6) Double check links on new docs.o.o | 19:29 |
| fungi | AJaeger: that paste lgtm | 19:29 |
| annegentle | AJaeger good point | 19:29 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: do you mean something else with double checking? | 19:30 |
| annegentle | AJaeger I meant me double-checking your paste :) | 19:30 |
| annegentle | AJaeger sorry, no additional checks necessary :) | 19:31 |
| AJaeger | great! | 19:31 |
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| AJaeger | ok, so any infra-root volunteers to help with the steps, please? | 19:32 |
| fungi | ianw doesn't seem to be around for the meeting but we can try to catch up with him later in #openstack-infra and see whether he's interested in updating the production content with the missing bits and refreshing the archive volume (since he did teh earlier stages of it) | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | yeah, i'm not familiar with that part, so i'd love it if ianw or pabelanger could refresh it | 19:33 |
| fungi | my main goal for today was to get some consensus on the remaining steps and confirmation that we can move forward with them | 19:33 |
| jeblair | i'll make the read-only volumes, etc | 19:33 |
| fungi | so if we don't get volunteers in-meeting that shouldn't be a show stopper | 19:33 |
| fungi | i'd imagine people are still catching up from their holiday breaks | 19:33 |
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| clarkb | ya thats my current situation | 19:34 |
| fungi | we'll circle back around after the meeting today or tomorrow and try to work out who's doing what next | 19:34 |
| * AJaeger will send a summary mail around to keep everybody updated | 19:34 | |
| fungi | any other details we need to discuss for thus? | 19:34 |
| clarkb | elasticsearch/logstash went really sideways wtih us all afk so trying to correct that before moving on to other stuff | 19:34 |
| fungi | s/thus/this? | 19:34 |
| * AJaeger is happy, thanks | 19:34 | |
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| fungi | ugh, i need to reconnect my irc client | 19:35 |
| fungi | just got a note from freenode they're about to reboot the server i'm connecting through | 19:35 |
| fungi | brb | 19:35 |
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| RY | hello | 19:36 |
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| fungi | okay, i seem to be back successfully, so will continue chairing | 19:37 |
| fungi | #topic Upgrading Askbot on ask.openstack.org (fungi) | 19:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Upgrading Askbot on ask.openstack.org (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:37 | |
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| fungi | i think we're ready to try upgrading askbot again | 19:38 |
| fungi | this is the change that will fire the upgrade process: | 19:38 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/408657 Update ask.o.o to latest 0.7.x branch r2 | 19:38 |
| fungi | i've marked it wip temporarily while we discuss granting mrmartin root access to the server | 19:38 |
| fungi | (askbot's upgrade process is fragile and we've already had to emergency revert it once, so i feel like having hands-on troubleshooting access for him would help matters) | 19:38 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/416072 Adding user 'mkiss' to ask.o.o | 19:38 |
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| fungi | i'm primarily looking for infra-root consensus on that, but as always everyone is welcome to review | 19:38 |
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| fungi | we've also got an issue, at least on the currently deployed version, with lots of false-positive rejections from its spam filtering | 19:38 |
| fungi | it has been suggested that the upgrade could solve it or at least make it easier to pin down: | 19:39 |
| clarkb | oh good passes tests now | 19:39 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-November/004812.html Logs for Ask.O.o - chasing false positive spam labeling | 19:39 |
| fungi | that's another thing which is hard to reproduce in staging and might benefit from mrmartin having more immediate access to troubleshoot | 19:39 |
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| fungi | i didn't really have much else. i'm happy to drive/monitor the upgrade myself but wanted to try and get some consensus on mrmartin's shell access to it before proceeding | 19:42 |
| clarkb | works for me, was waiting for tests to come back (I guess they did quickly and I just got distracted) | 19:43 |
| jeblair | ++ | 19:43 |
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| fungi | okay, cool. thanks for reviewing | 19:44 |
| fungi | #topic Repo renaming (fungi) | 19:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Repo renaming (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:44 | |
| fungi | we have four repo renames proposed (in two project-config changes), so may want to consider whether it's time to schedule another rename maintenance | 19:45 |
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| fungi | i mostly added this to the agenda as filler in case we had time at the end (which we seem to) | 19:45 |
| fungi | i know we just did a rename maintenance a few weeks ago, so if people think we should wait a little longer i'm fine with that | 19:45 |
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| fungi | the last one seemed to go pretty smoothly though, what with ansible automation and gerrit's online reindexing | 19:46 |
| clarkb | its worth pointing out that newer gerrit has index consistency issues and online reindex problems according to gerrit ml | 19:46 |
| fungi | we mainly need to be aware to give the release team a heads up, since they'd presumably want to avoid releasing anything while reindexing is underway, just to be safe | 19:47 |
| clarkb | (just throwing it out there as something we should test as part of our upgrade) | 19:47 |
| fungi | oh, ouch | 19:47 |
| fungi | any news on whether they've pinned down the cause? | 19:47 |
| zaro | clarkb: i think a fixed was just merged for that | 19:48 |
| zaro | https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/#/c/93479/ | 19:49 |
| clarkb | oh good | 19:49 |
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| fungi | so hopefully nothing we need to worry about once we upgrade, other than maybe checking for a backport | 19:50 |
| fungi | given that we're pretty much all just coming back from a wasteland of feasts and booze and lack of internets, i'm inclined to push the rename discussion out and revisit during next week's meeting | 19:51 |
| fungi | unless there's anyone who's eager to try and run one asap | 19:51 |
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| clarkb | sounds good | 19:52 |
| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:52 | |
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| fungi | anything else 2017 demands of us already? | 19:53 |
| jlvillal | Meetbot review request: https://review.openstack.org/413222 Gives better details when doing a #undo for some of the actions. | 19:53 |
| jlvillal | Low priority item... | 19:53 |
| fungi | thanks jlvillal | 19:54 |
| jlvillal | :) | 19:54 |
| zaro | Was wondering if anybody knows where pabelanger is with the puppet fix to add zuul-launcher to openstack-ci repo? | 19:54 |
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| fungi | zaro: i think there was a change proposed. i'll check the discussion from before the holidays | 19:54 |
| fungi | oh, he said "just doing a few tests before pushing it up" | 19:56 |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-12-20-19.03.log.html#l-10 | 19:56 |
| zaro | ok. Thanks. | 19:57 |
| fungi | i'm not seeing it for his open reviews, so maybe he still hasn't pushed it into review.o.o yet | 19:57 |
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| fungi | anybody have anything else in these last two minutes? | 19:58 |
| fungi | okay, i'll give you back a minute of your time ;) | 19:59 |
| fungi | thanks everyone! | 19:59 |
| fungi | see you all in #openstack-infra | 19:59 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 3 19:59:17 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-01-03-19.02.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-01-03-19.02.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-01-03-19.02.log.html | 19:59 |
| *** AJaeger has left #openstack-meeting | 19:59 | |
| * ttx stays quiet until the clock turns | 19:59 | |
| * fungi stays tuned for the tc meeting, coming up next | 19:59 | |
| dhellmann | o/ | 19:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 20:00 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | dims, dtroyer, EmilienM, mordred, mtreinish, sdague, stevemar: around ? | 20:00 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | flaper87 will miss this one IIRC | 20:00 |
| dims | o/ | 20:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 20:00 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 3 20:00:30 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:00 |
| ttx | Happy new year everyone! | 20:00 |
| stevemar | happy new year! | 20:00 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today is at: | 20:00 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:00 |
| ttx | (2017 new year resolution: use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary) | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #topic Driver teams: establish new "driver team" concept, or not | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Driver teams: establish new "driver team" concept, or not (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| ttx | Two weeks ago we discussed this and boiled it down to two options | 20:01 |
| ttx | Consider driver teams as being a piece of "OpenStack" (using the grey option as implementation): | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/403829 | 20:01 |
| ttx | or not consider driver teams as being a piece of OpenStack unless they fill all the open collaboration requirements (soft black option): | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/403836 | 20:02 |
| sigmavirus | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | mtreinish in particular was still not comfortable living by the grey option, and several TC members still preferred soft black. | 20:02 |
| ttx | Taking a step back, for me the choice all depends on whether driver teams are looking for *recognition* or *discoverability*. | 20:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | what would our users find useful here? | 20:02 |
| ttx | If they are just looking for *discoverability*, then I think we can work out documentation / marketplace solutions that gives vendor drivers equivalent visibility to in-tree / in-team drivers | 20:02 |
| ttx | without having to permanently change governance or compromise on open collaboration requirements for "OpenStack" proper | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | right, I'm not that concerned with discoverability as a goal for this | 20:02 |
| ttx | so choosing "soft black" + getting our act together on driverlog/docs/marketplace is a valid answer | 20:03 |
| ttx | (and thingee volunteered to work on that, to give those teams what they need fast enough) | 20:03 |
| ttx | But if they are /also/ looking for recognition, then grey is probably the most reasonable way to give it to them | 20:03 |
| ttx | So... Do we have a clear view on what those teams are really after ? | 20:03 |
| mtreinish | ttx: heh, that's a much more eloquent way to put what I was getting at during that last meeting :) | 20:03 |
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| ttx | johnthetubaguy: in both cases they get discoverability | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | I'm much more interested in having us consider drivers to be an important enough contribution that we include those contributors in our community. | 20:03 |
| thingee | as noted in 403829 I'm not in favor of it because I believe based on the conversations I've had with sambetts|afk at the summit that it's discoverability | 20:03 |
| gordc | dhellmann: +1, that's what marketing/sales departments are for. | 20:03 |
| stevemar | mtreinish: ttx does that | 20:03 |
| ttx | stevemar: that is called preparation | 20:03 |
| dims | :) | 20:04 |
| thingee | so approving this is not necessary of what was originally being asked | 20:04 |
| dtroyer | thingee: for the original case, maybe. But we are considering a class of projects here... | 20:05 |
| fungi | while i second dhellmann's desire to include driver development as contributing to our community, i worry that the grey option removes some impetus to follow our real community development expectations by giving them a watered-down version they can follow instead | 20:05 |
| * edleafe wanders in late | 20:05 | |
| dims | thingee ttx : is anyone else in the "drivers to be an important enough contribution that we include those contributors in our community" category? | 20:05 |
| thingee | I understand sambetts|afk put up a review to created. I said originally, because at the summit, he was concerned about out of tree drivers in neutron not having documentation at docs.o.o | 20:05 |
| ttx | dhellmann: from your interactions with that crowd, what would you say the need/want ? | 20:05 |
| ttx | they* | 20:05 |
| thingee | dtroyer exactly what dims asked, does anybody else want this, and give a good reason why | 20:05 |
| mtreinish | fungi: ++ | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I took their original request to be official at face value. The subsequent discussions about discoverability may speak more to their motivation. *My* motivation hasn't changed. | 20:06 |
| fungi | i still old that is _is_ possible to develop drivers in a completely open fashion, and am not entirely comfortable saying it's okay if you find that too much effort | 20:06 |
| thingee | I think if we fix some legacy things that disallow out of trees to be discovered, this is not necessary | 20:06 |
| fungi | s/old/hold/ | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | thingee : discoverability and encouraging participation are orthogonal | 20:06 |
| thingee | and if people are not in favor of making what a team's community of out of tree drivers more discoverable, then we should rediscuss if we want to allow out of tree drivers at all | 20:07 |
| jroll | fungi: do you think it's possible to develop drivers for proprietary things on a level playing field? (how does that work, simulator-y things?) | 20:07 |
| thingee | dhellmann can you explain how you see this encouraging participation? | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | I don't believe if we tell a large number of groups of people we're not interested in what they're producing, they'll be highly motivated to participate in the core of projects. | 20:07 |
| dtroyer | jroll: FWIW, I do not think it is _really_ possible, having tried that in more than one $DAY_JOB | 20:08 |
| ttx | jroll: I think it's hard. May involve sending free test rigs to everyone interested. | 20:08 |
| bswartz | you can't not allow out of tree drivers -- it's open source | 20:08 |
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| fungi | as evidence, i look to the littany of linux and *bsd kernel drivers which were developed initially without vendor assistance, and used as leverage to convince manufacturers to start providing better specs and documentation for their products so that anyone could write drivers for them | 20:08 |
| thingee | dhellmann who is saying we're not interested? | 20:08 |
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| dhellmann | thingee : if we tell teams working on drivers that their contributions aren't allowed to be official, we are. | 20:08 |
| thingee | again official and discoverability. | 20:08 |
| sdague | I think the level playing field statement is a quagmire of vagueness when it comes to drivers. | 20:08 |
| jroll | fungi: good example | 20:08 |
| ttx | dhellmann: arguably we are saying they are not "OpenStack", but something that can be used with "OpenStack" | 20:09 |
| thingee | you are official if we make it easy to discover your driver compatible with openstack | 20:09 |
| thingee | ttx +1 | 20:09 |
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| dhellmann | there's plenty of evidence that folks will write drivers anyway. I'm not worried about drivers going away. I'm worried about these companies with little experience being open having a bad experience when they're *trying* to be open. | 20:09 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I get your point though. We need drivers for openstack to be successful so why not consider them in | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | and deciding that a community built on the idea that we want lots of varied contributions doesn't want *their* contributions, of any sort | 20:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: thats what I meant about what users want, they want their driver to be written in the open, following similar patterns to other drivers, ideally, but maybe I am overthinking it | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | not all of them will choose to go through the trouble to become official, for various reasons | 20:10 |
| thingee | dhellmann I agree. and that's why I think the larger problem of them not being included in various things they would get without this patch should be considered first | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : I agree, we should encourage open development of drivers. | 20:10 |
| ttx | I'm on the fence, mostly because once official driver teams are created it will be hard to go back | 20:10 |
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| thingee | I think we should fix the larger problem first. If that doesn't fix things, we should revisit doug's proposal | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | thingee : I don't think we want to start opening docs.openstack.org up to folks who have no relationship with us | 20:11 |
| dtroyer | ttx: ++ and why it is clear to me we are not ready to go this route quite yet (if at all) | 20:11 |
| sdague | thingee: and you think the larger issue is documentation discovery? | 20:11 |
| ttx | sdague: and proper marketplace listings | 20:11 |
| thingee | dhellmann we already do. cinder drivers which are in tree and are allowed to contribute their drivers in | 20:11 |
| thingee | sdague that is one example and the one given to me by sambetts|afk himself with cisco | 20:12 |
| jroll | thingee: being in cinder's tree is definitely some relationship | 20:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | or we could make it so only openly accessible teams are listed? | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | thingee : cinder drivers in-tree are part of a repo that belongs to a team that works with the tc, even if the specific contributors are not | 20:12 |
| thingee | jroll right, again larger problem is with out of tree drivers here | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | thingee : if all of the drivers were in tree, we wouldn't even be having this conversation | 20:12 |
| thingee | we need to set what they can do that you get for being in tree. we have no business of saying what an individual team considers part of their project | 20:12 |
| jroll | this would open it to *anything* in the openstack git namespace, which is open to any code | 20:12 |
| jroll | "it" being docs.o.o | 20:13 |
| thingee | dhellmann and again, I say revisit whether we should allow out of tree | 20:13 |
| ttx | thingee: I agree we could give the non-nuclear option a try, but how long do you expect it will take to get things fixed on the documentation / discovery front ? | 20:13 |
| fungi | it seems to me like docs.o.o is probably not the ideal venue to host driver-specific documentation anyway, and instead we should let official projects continue to document driver-related things in their own documentation while simultaneously improving the marketplace to allow driver authors to specify links to wherever they want to host their own driver-specific documentation | 20:13 |
| thingee | this is just a bandaid fix imo | 20:13 |
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| dhellmann | thingee: so you're after the red option? | 20:13 |
| * thingee checks color code cliff notes | 20:13 | |
| dhellmann | thingee : that's the one where the TC requires project teams to take in all drivers | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | thingee : we rejected that as too harsh | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | this isn't a question of the motivation of the driver authors for being in tree | 20:14 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I think he is after one of the black options. Drivers can be made out of openstack | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | they've been kicked out by their host project | 20:14 |
| thingee | dhellmann no, I'm saying that the discussion should be revisited if we're even beginning to question out of tree drivers. | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | ttx: under that approach we can solve the discoverability problem, but not the community membership problem | 20:14 |
| fungi | yeah, i don't feel comfortable telling ptls what drivers they have to include in their project teams, much less in their source code trees for consuming services | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | thingee : I'm not sure we're on the same page at all. | 20:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | not all "drivers" are the same thing at this point either | 20:15 |
| ttx | dhellmann: agreed. It is the crux of the issue. Whether we want to consider those teams (and their slightly-less-open development methods) as a part of OpenStack | 20:16 |
| thingee | ttx I guess if I begin proposing various ways to have to vendor products more included and the person who originally requested this sambetts|afk feels I'm meeting his requests reasonably, that we can consider that a win? | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | thingee : all of the alternatives you've proposed can be done independently of this change except allowing publishing to docs.openstack.org, afaict. Am I missing something? | 20:16 |
| bswartz | fungi: I disagree about the docs -- for some projects the most important part of configuring them is the driver configuration, and the config guide on docs.o.o is a good place for that information | 20:16 |
| thingee | dhellmann yes, I'm saying we can do maybe do without your proposals and just fix sambetts|afk's initial problems with even requesting to be an official team | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | ttx: if you remember, I was in favor of *not* allowing special openness rules. I do see the argument in favor of loosening some, and could live with it, though. | 20:16 |
| fungi | bswartz: and letting each individual driver vendor write that documentation inconsistently and outside your project's control and host that on docs.o.o is a good idea? | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | thingee : that doesn't solve *my* problem, though | 20:16 |
| ttx | dhellmann: well, the alternative was to relax rules for everyone... | 20:17 |
| bswartz | fungi: the project teams can and do review it, as do the docs team | 20:17 |
| fungi | bswartz: even for repos maintained by unofficial teams? | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | thingee : the request from sambetts|afk highlighted a separate issue related to community membership that I'm trying to address in some way. I'm not really concerned with discoverability, except as a side-effect of being inclusive. | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | ttx: true. | 20:18 |
| ttx | back to whether driver teams want recognition as a part of openstack or really don't care that much | 20:18 |
| bswartz | fungi: talking about cinder/manila config guides | 20:18 |
| dims | dhellmann : right, so i was asking if anyone is really is feeling left out | 20:19 |
| ttx | dhellmann: was there anything explicit, or do you consider them applying as sufficient proof ? | 20:19 |
| fungi | bswartz: i'm not concerned about documentation vetted by and under teh control of manila, more worried about letting random manila driver teams not under manila or the docs team's oversight push up whatever documentation they want and serving it from an official-looking openstack website | 20:19 |
| thingee | well if it's about community membership, there's the incentive some have brought up in your proposal review. Contribute to the core project to rather than just your individual out of tree driver repo. | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | dims : do we wait for someone to have that problem and not report it before we do something? | 20:19 |
| thingee | dhellmann ^ | 20:19 |
| dims | dhellmann : good point | 20:19 |
| bswartz | fungi: manila has all the drivers in tree -- I don't want them anywhere else | 20:19 |
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| bswartz | out of tree drivers are an abomination IMO | 20:20 |
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| dhellmann | thingee : telling people we don't care about their driver contributions isn't likely to have a positive effect on their contributions elsewhere. Offer them a carrot. | 20:20 |
| ttx | bswartz: but if someone does drivers somewhere on github, you'd prefer that we don't adopt them as a separate openstack project, right ? | 20:20 |
| fungi | bswartz: and that's fine. i'm saying instead of encouraging random out-of-tree drivers not maintained by the teams responsible for the services with which they're integrated host their own individual documentation on docs.o.o themselves | 20:20 |
| jroll | fungi: reminder that the docs team does not oversee most of the big tent's docs, e.g. ironic just pushes whatever docs it wants | 20:21 |
| bswartz | ttx: correct -- they should contribute directly to manila or stay on github | 20:21 |
| ttx | dhellmann: supposing that's a carrot to them | 20:21 |
| thingee | dhellmann are we having a shortage of drivers though in this being a problem. Last time I checked cinder drivers are still growing beyond 80 drivers now | 20:21 |
| fungi | jroll: yep, which is why i said "or" here. i'm worried that a team which isn't the docs team nor ironic would be greenlit to publish ironic driver docs on docs.o.o | 20:21 |
| dtroyer | bswartz: does that approach result in any (or many?) thin in-tree wrapper drivers calling out to a propriteaty actual-driver somewhere? | 20:21 |
| sdague | do we have neutron community folks around? Because this really impacts neutron first. | 20:21 |
| thingee | The carrot is you're compatible with OpenStack because you follow the individual project team's guidelines of what is official | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yes, well, interpretation is up to the observer. | 20:21 |
| ttx | sdague: yes, wondering if we should not survey driver teams and see how much they care with the two solutions | 20:22 |
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| sdague | And it would be good to have inputs there. I think we've mostly had cinder, nova, manilla voices, which are definitely more intree oriented | 20:22 |
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| ttx | s/with/about/ | 20:22 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah, although do we think any other project will follow the neutron model? | 20:22 |
| jroll | fungi: idk, I don't have a problem with that, personally. some docs are better than none | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | thingee : and if the project team's guideline is "only this one driver, and we don't care about yours" then what option does someone have? | 20:22 |
| bswartz | dtroyer: that hasn't been a problem for us -- we make it hard to do that by frequently changing the driver interface (similar to how Linux makes out of tree drivers painful to maintain) | 20:22 |
| mtreinish | because it seems kinda unlikely to me that any of the other projects will | 20:22 |
| dtroyer | mtreinish: neutron seems to be unique partially because of its histroy as a heavily vendor-driven project from the start | 20:23 |
| mtreinish | dtroyer: right | 20:23 |
| sdague | jroll: would ironic end up in this model as well? | 20:23 |
| smcginnis | mtreinish: I agree | 20:23 |
| thingee | dhellmann again, that's a problem of a particular project that I think we're trying to fix in the tempest related review I gave | 20:23 |
| jroll | ironic has out of tree drivers as we require CI | 20:23 |
| fungi | jroll: i mean as opposed to letting them host their documentation elsewhere. they're not going to automatically end up in an index on docs.o.o anyway, so if the driver marketplace is the index to driver documents, having some of them linking to documentation elsewhere seems fine to me | 20:23 |
| dtroyer | bswartz: thx | 20:23 |
| jroll | sdague: not pushing 100% out, but forcing some to stay out, yes | 20:23 |
| ttx | OK, so that we know where we stand today... I propose a quick indicative vote for TC members | 20:23 |
| sdague | or, so ironic and neutron are going to be primary consumers | 20:23 |
| sdague | and I feel like we haven't really had a ton of neutron feedback here | 20:24 |
| fungi | saying driver=specific documentation without collaboration from the consuming project doesn't automatically become more "discoverable" by getting served from docs.o.o | 20:24 |
| jroll | fungi: yeah, I suppose. I guess I lean toward 'why not' on the docs point, rather than 'why' :) | 20:24 |
| ttx | #startvote Where do you stand? allow-driver-teams, just-improve-discovery, on-the-fence | 20:24 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Where do you stand? Valid vote options are allow-driver-teams, just-improve-discovery, on-the-fence. | 20:24 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:24 |
| ttx | #vote on-the-fence | 20:24 |
| thingee | armax has started the conversation in setting the precedent of how out of tree drivers could be tested. If we support that idea, we can begin using the neutron communities' guideline of what is official and highlight those like we do with other vendor products. | 20:24 |
| fungi | #vote just-improve-discovery | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | #vote allow-driver-teams | 20:25 |
| mtreinish | #vote just-improve-discovery | 20:25 |
| sdague | #vote on-the-fence | 20:25 |
| EmilienM | #vote allow-driver-teams | 20:25 |
| dtroyer | #vote allow-driver-teams | 20:25 |
| thingee | dhellmann contributors being paid by a company don't need to incentive from the community to contribute driver code. | 20:25 |
| dims | #vote on-the-fence | 20:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy | vote one-the-fence | 20:25 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: you need a # | 20:25 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: add # | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | thingee : the company needs an incentive to allow them to do anything other than that, though | 20:25 |
| thingee | #vote just-improve-discovery | 20:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | #vote on-the-fence | 20:25 |
| thingee | dhellmann can you give me examples of where that's a problem today though? | 20:25 |
| fungi | thingee: i'd rather start from an even more loose position of giving projects a means of registering driver details into the driver marketplace using whatever criteria they feel is appropriate to determine "support" | 20:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: ttx: sorry one handed badness | 20:26 |
| ttx | Explaining my on-the-fence: I'd like to reach out to driver teams and assess how much they want recognition vs. discoverability | 20:26 |
| ttx | because we seem to be assuming a lot (one way or another) | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | thingee : I don't think we need to wait for a problem to exist before we try to address it. | 20:26 |
| stevemar | #vote on-the-fence | 20:26 |
| fungi | thingee: rather than requiring cinder and neutron to agree on what makes a driver supported | 20:26 |
| ttx | ending vote in 20 sec | 20:26 |
| ttx | #endvote | 20:27 |
| openstack | Voted on "Where do you stand?" Results are | 20:27 |
| openstack | on-the-fence (5): dims, ttx, stevemar, sdague, johnthetubaguy | 20:27 |
| openstack | allow-driver-teams (3): EmilienM, dhellmann, dtroyer | 20:27 |
| openstack | just-improve-discovery (3): thingee, mtreinish, fungi | 20:27 |
| ttx | Pretty split | 20:27 |
| thingee | dhellmann I find that too bad that the TC wants to open this gate when there is no problem. | 20:27 |
| dims | i'd like to understand if what can be done w.r.t just-improve-discovery without the need for TC intervention | 20:27 |
| fungi | i'll note that i'm really in favor of "first-improve-discovery" (and then see if we still have a problem) | 20:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: I like that starting point idea, the projects know best | 20:27 |
| thingee | johnthetubaguy +1 | 20:28 |
| dims | fungi : true | 20:28 |
| ttx | As an on-the-fence I propose to reach out to driver teams and try to get their feeling | 20:28 |
| ttx | stevemar: would you mid helping me in there ? | 20:28 |
| ttx | mind* | 20:28 |
| jroll | fwiw the TC is typically pretty reactive, I'd love to see some proactiveness here if we're confident the problem will happen eventually | 20:28 |
| stevemar | ttx: sure | 20:28 |
| dtroyer | Does anyone have a sense of what might change for the nova/cinder/manila teams if driver teams were introduced? | 20:28 |
| jroll | ttx: stevemar: I can hook you up with some folks maintaining out of tree ironic drivers, if that's helpful | 20:28 |
| ttx | dims, stevemar, sdague, johnthetubaguy: anything else we should do this week to help you make a call ? | 20:28 |
| dtroyer | ie, unintended consequences? | 20:28 |
| smcginnis | dtroyer: My only concern with all of this is having less incentive to contribute to core code. | 20:29 |
| fungi | jroll: i'm happy to talk to the foundation site devs about dumping some more time into improving the driver marketplace (which is really just a sort of poc right now), but would need input from different teams on what would make it usable for them | 20:29 |
| ttx | dtroyer: not really, but yes introducing driver-teams is a more significant move than just sitting and fixing discoverability | 20:29 |
| stevemar | jroll: that would be helpful. ttx i just want to make sure what we're proposing actually helps the folks we're trying to help (so reaching out to driver teams sounds like a good place to start that) | 20:29 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ttx: I would be tempted to approve driver teams, but I am attracted by the option of discoverability controlled by projects | 20:29 |
| dtroyer | smcginnis: you feel that you might see companies going in the opposite driection of what we are trying to achieve? | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : I wouldn't expect a lot of impact on that to teams that welcome drivers into the parent projects. | 20:30 |
| thingee | smcginnis I think this proposal in recognizing individual contributors in their vendor's team deliverables will not help with core contributions | 20:30 |
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| sdague | ttx: mostly I want to know that whatever we're doing is actually going to solve the problem for neutron over the next year, with feedback from some of the neutron leadership on that | 20:30 |
| ttx | OK, I don't think we'll make more progress today. Feel free to discuss this (dhellmann and thingee in particular as you seem to lead both options) | 20:30 |
| thingee | recognizing openstack contributors have to come from the projects themselves, not vendor python libraries, etc | 20:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess I feel more worried about encouraging open collaboration on the vendor drivers | 20:31 |
| dims | ++ sdague | 20:31 |
| ttx | sdague: ok, so making sure we cover neutron in our analysis | 20:31 |
| thingee | ttx yes I will be happy to continue working this out with dhellmann | 20:31 |
| ttx | I propose we move on | 20:31 |
| smcginnis | dtroyer: Just a concern if we do anything that they are able to state they contribute to OpenStack by allowing them to work in isolation. Unfounded concerns probably. | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | yes, let's move on | 20:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: good point, the proposal currently excludes many neutron drivers due the the API clause | 20:31 |
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| ttx | #action ttx and stevemar to reach out to prospective driver teams and assess how much they care about recognition vs. just discoverability | 20:32 |
| ttx | #topic Disallow downtime of controlled resources during upgrades | 20:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Disallow downtime of controlled resources during upgrades (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:32 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/404361 | 20:32 |
| dolphm | o/ | 20:32 |
| ttx | dolphm: o/ | 20:32 |
| * ttx checks for refresh | 20:32 | |
| dolphm | since the last time this was on the agenda, i've incorporated some feedback into the latest review... | 20:32 |
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| dolphm | specifically, checkout L45-51 for some updated wording https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404361/6/reference/tags/assert_supports-accessible-upgrade.rst | 20:33 |
| ttx | lgtm | 20:33 |
| ttx | dhellmann: does the new wording fix your concerns ? | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | the new wording addresses my only nit, thanks dolphm | 20:33 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: thanks for the feedback | 20:33 |
| sdague | dolphm: ok, so basically if we do this the net is | 20:34 |
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| stevemar | dolphm: lgtm, but i was OK with previous revs too | 20:34 |
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| sdague | nova, cinder get accessible upgrades, neutron / glance do not? | 20:34 |
| sdague | just to get this chunking in my head | 20:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | just checking a phrase here: "continuously validated" | 20:35 |
| EmilienM | sdague: glance doesn't? | 20:35 |
| dolphm | no one would get it out of the gate, unless someone is already asserting the availability of resourcing during an upgrade? | 20:35 |
| dolphm | johnthetubaguy: that's a slight change since the last revision as well | 20:35 |
| mtreinish | EmilienM: you can't get to the images during an upgrade | 20:35 |
| sdague | EmilienM: when the glance services are offline, there is no access to their resources | 20:35 |
| sdague | because their resources are only http accessable | 20:35 |
| EmilienM | indeed | 20:36 |
| sdague | dolphm: ok, but conceptually, the services that can do this | 20:36 |
| sdague | neutron can't because of ovs link resets and the like | 20:36 |
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| dhellmann | sdague : is that a fundamental problem with neutron, or could it be fixed? | 20:37 |
| ttx | are ovs link resets "abnormal", though ? | 20:37 |
| EmilienM | I thought the neutron thing changed in the last releases, I remember some parameters in Neutron to disable this thing | 20:37 |
| sdague | dhellmann: it's a fundamental problem with some backends | 20:37 |
| sdague | including the leading ones | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | ok | 20:37 |
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| jroll | maybe this needs to reference a 'reasonable' amount of downtime? e.g. one packet dropping is probably fine, putting glance behind a load balancer and coordinating service restarts is probably fine | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | I'm not really sure what it buys us to have this flag at all if we have 2 fundamental services that can't achieve it, and therefore the cloud can't achieve it. | 20:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | its generally where projects sit in the dataplane, they have lots to do | 20:38 |
| jroll | like, things ops would care about, not 0 downtime ever | 20:38 |
| jroll | if that makes sense | 20:38 |
| fungi | i'm still a little fuzzy on how we expect to "continuously" test to prove that a service isn't unavailable at some random point during teh upgrade process | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | jroll : ++ | 20:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | jroll: that feels like yet another tag, but thats a fair point | 20:38 |
| fungi | but maybe i'm getting too deep into imagining the implementation? | 20:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: "continuously" is the bit worrying me | 20:39 |
| ttx | jroll: yes, and that definition may vary | 20:39 |
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| jroll | johnthetubaguy: if it's another tag, I guess I'm asserting this one isn't terribly useful | 20:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | jroll: this one would be one Nova could assert (if you turn off consoles, I guess...) | 20:39 |
| jroll | johnthetubaguy: for something like glance, if an op wants zero downtime, a load balancer (and coordination) should be a requirement | 20:39 |
| EmilienM | sdague: I think the neutron thing was fixed by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182920/ | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | jroll, johnthetubaguy : right, if the point is to get to a state where it's possible to upgrade openstack with little disruption, and we're defining the way to do that as something some projects can't ever do, then how is it useful to say that even some projects can do it? | 20:40 |
| mtreinish | fungi: start a separate process to ping a server in a loop throughout a grenade job and fail if it drops? :p | 20:40 |
| dolphm | for services that don't manage resources outside the control plane, i think the question is whether the tag should apply at all, or whether you get this tag for "free" by successfully asserting the rolling upgrade tag | 20:40 |
| jroll | dhellmann: ++ | 20:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | jroll: yeah, I am OK with that, but they need to be able to run old and new services at the same time to do that | 20:40 |
| mtreinish | s/drops/drops any packets/ | 20:40 |
| jroll | johnthetubaguy: indeed | 20:40 |
| fungi | mtreinish: that only proves it was up at the times those icmp echo requests arrived | 20:40 |
| dims | mtreinish : ssh session instead? :) | 20:40 |
| ttx | sdague: would glance pass this with rolling updates (like you can always find an API server that works) ? | 20:40 |
| fungi | mtreinish: but proves nothing about the (micro?)seconds between each ping | 20:41 |
| mtreinish | dims: yeah, ssh would be a better test :) | 20:41 |
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| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: depends if you can make a very available cloud with a set of projects that all assert the "better" tag, until we can, its a bit useless I guess | 20:41 |
| mtreinish | fungi: fair point | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I think "continuously" was added when someone pointed out that a test before and after an upgrade doesn't actually ensure that the resources was available *during* the upgrad | 20:41 |
| sdague | dhellmann: well I think the fact that neutron can't right now should impact future evolution, because it's not really a neutron limitation but how some backends were done because this wasn't being thought of | 20:41 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: ++ | 20:41 |
| sdague | ttx: maybe, we're starting to get pretty deep into HA architecture... which is fine, but up until this point the OpenStack upstream hasn't dictated that (it was left to distros / install tools) | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | fungi : so it's not the literal mathematical definition of continuously, but "during the upgrade with a reasonable sampling rate" or something else less word salady | 20:42 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I think you reminded me I need to understand those neutron problems better | 20:42 |
| dolphm | i feel like asserting testing methodologies in tags is getting a little bit too much into the implementation details. if a project applies for a tag, i think it's up to the TC to determine whether the implementation of the tests satisfies the spirit of the tag | 20:42 |
| ttx | OK, I'm starting to wonder what user question this answers | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | sdague : is the problem in the driver, or in the thing the driver talks to? | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | dolphm : yeah, I was trying to clarify the wording for the discussion but I think it's fine as it is in the doc now | 20:43 |
| EmilienM | what are the neutron problems we are discussing of? is there any launchpad bug reference? I've seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1383674 but it seems fixed for OVS backend. What else would cause this downtime? | 20:43 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1383674 in neutron "Restarting neutron openvswitch agent causes network hiccup by throwing away all flows" [High,Fix released] - Assigned to Ann Taraday (akamyshnikova) | 20:43 |
| sdague | so, EmilienM may be right that - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182920/ fixed it | 20:43 |
| ttx | basically WHY are we introducing this if it's not to drive behavior nor to answer a user question | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | yay, ok | 20:43 |
| sdague | EmilienM: if the OVS backend flow rebuild is handled, that's fine | 20:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | dolphm: yeah, I am largely agreed with that (does the testing spot the massive whoppers), I worry the wording in the proposed tag doesn't cover that | 20:43 |
| dolphm | ttx: "my cloud provider advertises that they upgrade their cloud every day with the latest security updates, etc. will that affect my ability to consume cloud without interruption?" | 20:43 |
| jroll | sdague: reference HA architecture bits feels like a useful thing for upstream to dictate - e.g. "you should run two of these conductor things, you should put APIs behind LB" | 20:43 |
| sdague | but that can't survice an OVS upgrade itself | 20:43 |
| fungi | dhellmann: my concern with "continuously" is more that i think there may be a misconception that there's anything _actually_ continuous in computing, and we need to design around the native discontinuity there instead (and word things accordingly) | 20:44 |
| sdague | jroll: sure, I don't disagree, it's just new territory | 20:44 |
| jroll | as one of the first people to ever deploy ironic in production... I would have loved to have that | 20:44 |
| jroll | nod | 20:44 |
| EmilienM | russellb: any thoughts on ^^^^ ? | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | fungi : sure. I think I agree with dolphm that we don't want to put too much detail about the way to do it in the tag, but try to express the desired outcome. | 20:44 |
| dolphm | johnthetubaguy: are you focusing on the word "continuously", or something else? | 20:44 |
| sdague | jroll: and something that needs to be a bit more consistent across the projects. Because if one shows how to do it with haproxy, and another with something else, it's not super useful for a whole system :) | 20:45 |
| jroll | sdague: +10000000 | 20:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | dolphm: yeah, I am fixed on that word for reasons I don't understand | 20:45 |
| ttx | dolphm: feels a lot like "are those services working as the industry considers they should" | 20:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: jroll: +1 | 20:45 |
| sdague | I thought the basic question being answered was to Operators | 20:46 |
| jroll | I think of these as answers to ops questions, "how often (and how painful) is it reasonable to upgrade things" | 20:46 |
| fungi | really, we have a lot of different services used in different ways, and what sorts of outages are impactful for each of them varies accordingly | 20:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: FWIW, I consider ovs a host/hypervisor upgrade, so its like a machine swap, if you don't want some packet loss | 20:46 |
| ttx | OK, feels like we'll need another round here | 20:46 |
| * johnthetubaguy face palm | 20:46 | |
| johnthetubaguy | ignore that, thats more outage than ovs replace | 20:47 |
| ttx | dhellmann, sdague: please make sure to file your remarks/concerns on the review | 20:47 |
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| sdague | jroll: right, and if I upgrade service X do I need to plan for customers seeing an outage | 20:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | we did some ovs upgrades, but you get packet loss | 20:47 |
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| jroll | sdague: yep, meaning service X is going to get real old real fast :) | 20:47 |
| fungi | and brief packet loss for tcp-based protocols or thinbs which implement error correction/retransmission at the application layer may still be completely seamless | 20:48 |
| ttx | feels like we'll have a hard time defining this as a tag, could be suggestions for improvements / goal instead | 20:48 |
| dolphm | jroll: if users are experiencing pain, then ops experiences the wrath of users... i don't see this as solving an ops pain point directly | 20:48 |
| fungi | s/thinbs/things/ | 20:48 |
| jroll | dolphm: not solving ops pain points, answering ops questions | 20:48 |
| dolphm | jroll: ah, i follow then | 20:48 |
| ttx | because defining "reasonable" and "normal" behavior will be hard overall | 20:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | I like sdague's suggestion of upgrade focused goals | 20:48 |
| jroll | ideally users never notice an upgrade :) | 20:48 |
| ttx | anyway, i suggest we move on | 20:49 |
| ttx | and continue to discuss on the review | 20:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | jroll: +1, tricky to define | 20:49 |
| ttx | since this is not ready | 20:49 |
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| ttx | #topic Pike goals | 20:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pike goals (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:50 | |
| ttx | Not much time to discuss this | 20:50 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 20:50 |
| ttx | EmilienM: looks like we have two goals proposed so far ? | 20:50 |
| ttx | anything else promising in the backlog ? | 20:50 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/community-goals | 20:50 |
| EmilienM | yes, python-3 and tempest plugin AFIK | 20:50 |
| ttx | * Add Pike goal split out tempest plugins (https://review.openstack.org/369749) | 20:50 |
| ttx | * add goal "support python 3.5" (https://review.openstack.org/349069) | 20:50 |
| EmilienM | we had one goal for Ocata, having 2 goals for Pike would probably make sense | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | I saw some useful input from the product working group on the etherpad earlier today | 20:51 |
| ttx | ah, missed it | 20:51 |
| ttx | How are the proposed two doing in terms of community acceptance ? | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | there were comments about their interest in some of the existing things, and one new one at the bottom | 20:51 |
| EmilienM | ttx: for the python 3.5 goal, I haven't seen any pushback - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349069/ (and ML) | 20:52 |
| sdague | those seem like reasonably scoped things, and have champions, so seems solid | 20:52 |
| mtreinish | ttx: well I don't think anyone ever opposed the python 3 support. It was always more just a matter of feasibility in a timeframe and scope | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | the only issue reported there was some concern about which python 3.5, since there's a bug swift needs fixed | 20:52 |
| fungi | though the infra team is using its own definition of compliance with the python 3.5 goal, which may not align with others' assumptions | 20:52 |
| thingee | yes, I think we can move forward with py 3.5 | 20:52 |
| EmilienM | ttx: for the tempest plugin goal - https://review.openstack.org/369749 - there are still some discussions in the proposal | 20:52 |
| EmilienM | sdague: ++ indeed | 20:52 |
| jroll | has the tempest plugin goal been talked about on the ML? it has had some opposition in the patch | 20:53 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I guess that could be grounds for an exemption until 3.6 is done (or the bug is fixed) ? | 20:53 |
| dims | mtreinish : dhellmann : i have only good things to say about teams i reached out to with issues for the dsvm up/down test | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | jroll: I haven't seen a thread, but I'm a few hours out of date | 20:53 |
| stevemar | i like the advantages outlined in the tempest plugin patch | 20:53 |
| jroll | dhellmann: I'd expect a thread more than a few hours old by now :P | 20:53 |
| ttx | done -> widely available | 20:54 |
| dims | ttx : there are other things that need to be fixed in swift well before that referenced bug is of concern | 20:54 |
| dims | IMHO | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | ttx: the fix is in a patch-level update to 3.5 (I don't remember which off the top of my head) but yes, I agree, that would make a delay OK in my mind | 20:54 |
| ttx | dims: right, so they could be working on that | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | dims : excellent, and thank you for picking that up | 20:54 |
| mtreinish | jroll: oops, i forgot to start a thread before the holidays when you asked me before | 20:54 |
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| ttx | EmilienM: when do you want to have the goals set in stone ? | 20:55 |
| jroll | mtreinish: heh, yeah, my question was "did I miss that during vacation" in disguise :) | 20:55 |
| EmilienM | ttx: ocata-3 or rc1 if possible | 20:55 |
| ttx | At least one month before PTG would be nice, so that people can plan to spend time in the Goal room | 20:55 |
| EmilienM | ttx: it would gives us some window to prepare the communication and work in governance | 20:55 |
| ttx | (each goal will have a room for people wanting to quick-hack on them) | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | a month before ptg would be o-3, Jan 23-27 | 20:55 |
| EmilienM | ttx: eg: reach out teams so they can prepare their sessions at PTG if needed | 20:55 |
| ttx | (on Monday-Tuesday) | 20:56 |
| ttx | ok, let's target o-3 | 20:56 |
| mtreinish | jroll: I'll push something out later today to start a ml discussion on it | 20:56 |
| EmilienM | ttx: +1 | 20:56 |
| ttx | that means refining the goals really quick | 20:56 |
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| ttx | and make sure people know they are coming | 20:56 |
| dims | ++ ttx | 20:56 |
| ttx | alright, this seems to be on the right track | 20:56 |
| jroll | mtreinish: awesome | 20:57 |
| EmilienM | ttx: I'll take actions on that, working closely with mtreinish and dhellmann | 20:57 |
| ttx | EmilienM: thanks again for coordinating | 20:57 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:57 | |
| ttx | FYI Piet Kruithof reached out to me saying he is stepping down from UX team PTLship | 20:57 |
| ttx | There is a question of whether that team should continue as a standalone team | 20:57 |
| ttx | (or if UX efforts should rather be blended into every team) | 20:57 |
| stevemar | for the future, can we have a set of goals for all projects to hit, not necessarily bound to a specific release/dev cycle? | 20:57 |
| ttx | stevemar: we would probably call that something else to avoid confusion | 20:58 |
| EmilienM | ttx: how would we formalize #2 ? | 20:58 |
| stevemar | then we don't have to worry about 'setting them in stone' by a specific milestone | 20:58 |
| ttx | I think the standalone UX team helped expose UX tools (personas, usability studies) to everyone | 20:58 |
| thingee | I think a ux working group like we have api's etc would suffice | 20:58 |
| ttx | But now that those tools are better-known, it's maybe time to encourage every team to use them directly | 20:58 |
| thingee | don't think we need a team | 20:58 |
| EmilienM | thingee: agree | 20:58 |
| thingee | not even sure what their deliverables were | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | does the existing ux team want to stay a team? | 20:58 |
| dtroyer | what we lose without Piet's team is the expertise in executing the studies | 20:58 |
| ttx | ok, I propose to start a thread and check if there is a PTL candidate, or if that effort no longer needs a teazm or centralization. | 20:58 |
| thingee | ttx +1 | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : ++, it's harder than it looks | 20:59 |
| mtreinish | ttx: sounds like a plan | 20:59 |
| EmilienM | stevemar: how would you iterate? | 20:59 |
| ttx | We'll see -- if nobody steps up the solution will find itself | 20:59 |
| dtroyer | dhellmann: I've done two of them and it really is... | 20:59 |
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| ttx | #action ttx to start a UX thread | 20:59 |
| thingee | dtroyer +1 I guess what I meant was repo based deliverables. | 20:59 |
| fungi | we also have a pholio instance in production now, requested by the ux team | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | thingee : they produced some ux reports that were distributed at the summit | 21:00 |
| stevemar | EmilienM: add them to a backlog once approved and when they are ready to target move the goal from backlog to cycle | 21:00 |
| ttx | dtroyer: agreed it's difficult to define personas or conduct studies without some centralization or guidance | 21:00 |
| fungi | (as a replacement for their use of the proprietary "invision" saas) | 21:00 |
| ttx | Alright we are out of time | 21:00 |
| thingee | dhellmann that is true. I guess those could be in a repo to recreate the pdfs | 21:00 |
| EmilienM | stevemar: I see, lgtm | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | stevemar : I like the idea of having a pipeline of goal definitions ready to go | 21:00 |
| thingee | better yet, put in a sphinx based doc on HIG, etc | 21:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! Don't despair, discussion is still progress :) | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | thingee : I think that's also part of what pholio was for | 21:00 |
| stevemar | i would like to add support for say, microversions, in keystone, if it's approved. and once the cycle hits we're done. | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 3 21:00:59 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-03-20.00.html | 21:01 |
| EmilienM | ttx: thx for chairing, as usual and happy new year folks :) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-03-20.00.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-03-20.00.log.html | 21:01 |
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| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: stevemar: +1 the pipeline | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | stevemar : nothing's stopping you from adding it now! ;-) | 21:01 |
| jroll | thanks ttx :) | 21:01 |
| stevemar | dhellmann: it kinda does though, maybe not for that one, but for some of the more contentious ones | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | yeah, true | 21:02 |
| stevemar | just a thought | 21:02 |
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