Tuesday, 2017-04-04

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  4 03:00:02 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-03-28_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
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mkraiMadhuri Kumari03:00
lakerzhouBin Zhou03:00
hongbinthanks for joining the meeting mkrai lakerzhou03:01
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hongbini know today is the chinese holiday, it seems some chinese folks are not able to join03:01
hongbinlet's have a short meeting this week03:01
hongbin#topic Cinder integration (diga)03:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder integration (diga) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:02
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/cinder-zun-integration The BP03:02
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/429943/03:02
hongbinShunli: hi, thanks for joining03:02
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hongbindiga told me he is not able to join today03:03
hongbinhe said he will submit a revision of the patch above to pass the gate03:03
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hongbinthat is all from him03:03
hongbinany question about that?03:03
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hongbinok, next topic :)03:04
hongbin#topic Kuryr integration (hongbin)03:04
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hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/kuryr-integration The BP03:04
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447732/03:04
mkraiThe spec looks good to me03:04
hongbini saw mkrai has given a +203:04
mkraiI think we can go ahead with implementation03:04
hongbini will start the implementation this week03:05
mkraiLet me know if i can help in anyway03:05
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hongbinmkrai: i am going to do the first patch by hard-coding the network model, then you can take over to make the network model implemented03:06
Shunlii can help also if you need.03:06
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mkraiOk thanks i will wait for your patch03:06
hongbinmkrai: ok03:06
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hongbinShunli: ack, i will see if anything i need a hand for that03:07
Shunliok. thx03:07
hongbinok, next topic03:07
hongbin#topic Introduce host capabilities and cpusets (sudipto)03:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce host capabilities and cpusets (sudipto) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:07
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427007/ The spec03:07
hongbinthis one doesn't seem to have any progress last week03:08
hongbinwill ping sudipta about that this week03:08
hongbinany question?03:08
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ShunliThe scheduler filters also depend on the host capabilities.03:08
hongbinShunli: i see03:09
ShunliIf sudipto has no time to work on this, maybe i can help03:09
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hongbinShunli: ok, glad to hear that03:10
hongbinShunli: i will coordinate about it03:10
Shunliok. thx hongbin03:10
hongbin#action hongbin send an email to sudipta for coordinating the host capability work with Shunli03:10
hongbinShunli: thanks for the offer03:11
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hongbinok, next topic03:11
hongbin#topic Introduce container composition03:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce container composition (Meeting topic: zun)"03:11
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437759/03:11
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-composition03:11
hongbinKevin told me that he is not able to join todya due to holiday03:12
hongbinhe asked us to review the spec and the draft design in the etherpad03:12
mkraiIs the etherpad updated?03:12
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mkraiI will have a look at the etherpad03:13
hongbinmkrai: i think the etherpad is updated, he added a sample pod manifest03:13
mkraiOk will check03:13
hongbinwe can spend sometime to take a look at the etherpad now, since we have times today03:14
mkraiI won't be able to check now as I am online through phone03:14
hongbini see03:14
mkraiStuck in traffic03:14
hongbinok, let's take it offline03:15
hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:15
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hongbinShunli: lakerzhou : you have any topic to bring up?03:15
lakerzhouno, I don't have anything03:16
hongbinlakerzhou: you want to give a brief upldate about the snapshot work?03:16
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lakerzhouYes, hongbin03:16
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lakerzhouI am continuing work on update the glance image03:17
lakerzhounow, I have coding done, and working on testing codes now03:17
lakerzhoushould have it for review in the next couple of days03:17
hongbinsound like a good progress :)03:17
lakerzhouthanks for the helps from mkrai03:18
mkraiGreat lakerzhou03:18
mkraiHongbin please have a look at the delete async patch03:18
hongbinmkrai: sure03:18
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hongbinok, sounds like we can end the meeting now. all , thanks for joining03:19
hongbinsee you next week03:19
mkraiThanks all03:19
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:19
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  4 03:19:59 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:20
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-04-04-03.00.html03:20
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-04-04-03.00.txt03:20
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-04-04-03.00.log.html03:20
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samPHi.. all for masakari meeting04:00
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samPhi o/04:00
Dinesh_BhorHi all04:00
samPlet's start04:00
samP#startmeeting masakari04:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  4 04:01:01 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is samP. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.04:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.04:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'masakari'04:01
samPhi all04:01
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samP#topic critical bugs04:01
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samP#link log translations https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447810/04:02
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rkmrHonjoSome projects had already agree with removing translations. So I think that we can agree this patch.04:02
rkmrHonjosagara: hi04:03
tpatilI think all logs are translated using zanata tool, correct?04:03
samPrkmrHonjo: yes.. however nova doing it bit different way04:03
samPsagara: hi04:03
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samPhere is how nova do it, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44829304:04
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samPtpatil: use zanata is confirmed?04:06
tpatilMasakari code base is small so we can remove all the usages of _LI/_LW/_LE/_LC04:06
samPtpatil: agree04:07
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Dinesh_BhorHere is the guideline: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/446762/04:07
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samPDinesh_Bhor: thanks04:08
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samPI would like to have HACKING check for this..04:09
samPif no objections let move forward with that patch for removing all the _LI/_LW/_LE/_LC04:09
tpatilSure, I will add this hacking check04:09
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samPtpatil: thanks04:09
rkmrHonjosamP: No objections.04:10
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samPrkmrHonjo: thanks04:10
tpatilsamP: I agree to merge the patch04:10
sagarame too04:10
rkmrHonjoI and Takahara will start to remove tranlations from masakari-monitors, masakariclient, and add hacking check after tpatil.04:10
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samPrkmrHonjo: that will be great..04:11
samPI remove my -1 and put +2 for the patch04:11
samPOK then, lets move to next item..04:12
samP#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari/+bug/166351304:12
openstackLaunchpad bug 1663513 in masakari "Masakari failed to rescue PAUSED instances" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Dinesh Bhor (dinesh-bhor)04:12
samPAbout this bug, I put a comment in LP04:12
samPIMO, for PAUSED or SUSPENDED VMs, doing nothing would be a acceptable solution04:14
sagarasamP: I agree04:14
samPBecause, if we start a PAUSED or SUSPENDED server, then we might change the internal status of the VM04:15
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sagaraAnd I think PAUSED or SUSPENDED VMs has a reason to be stopped. so I think doing nothing is good04:16
samPI like Dinesh's idea.. but its not applicable to all the cases04:16
Dinesh_Bhoryes, I agree on doing nothing for this case04:17
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tpatilsamP: I agree with option #B i.e to skip recovery action when vm is in PAUSED or SUSPENDED state04:17
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samPgreat, however we need to inform operator about this issue via log04:17
tpatilsamP: Yes04:18
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samPso, action would be Skip the recovery and create a warning log entry about this incident04:19
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samPNow we all agree how to fix this.. thanks..lets fix this.04:20
samPAny other bugs to discuss?04:20
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samPBTW, Hiroki Ito is doing some tests in MasakariCI and he send a dummy patch "CI TEST - do not merge"04:22
samPplease neglect it..04:22
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samPIf no other bugs, then lets jump in to Discussion points04:23
samP#topic Discussion points04:23
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samPI start to write recovery-method-customization, but I couldn't finish it...04:24
samP#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/masakari-recovery-method-customization04:24
samPI will try to complete it before our next meeting..sorry04:24
sagaraThank you for writing, after you finished writing, we develop that04:25
samPsagara: thanks..04:25
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samPIn pike work items, "Use openstack resource agents for monitor compute nodes" L5104:26
samPI had a discussion with openstack HA team, and they are willing to help us to implement this04:27
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rkmrHonjosamP: Can I read the logs of discussion?04:28
samPrkmrHonjo: wait..04:28
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samPrkmrHonjo: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-ha/%23openstack-ha.2017-03-29.log.html04:29
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rkmrHonjosamp: Thanks.04:30
samPtomorrow we have ha meeting at 6:00pm JST04:30
samPif you are interesting about this topic, you can get into the discussion. I will be there.04:31
rkmrHonjosamP: I will watch it if possible.04:31
samPrkmrHonjo: sure...04:31
samP#link openstack-ha meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#High_Availability_Meeting04:32
samPhere is the meeting time..04:32
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samPOK then, any other Discussion points?04:32
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samPlets move to AOB04:33
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samP#topic AOB04:34
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Dinesh_BhorYes, About this from pike work items:Enable OpenStack proposal bot for masakari projects04:34
samPDinesh_Bhor: go ahead04:34
Dinesh_Bhorpython-masakariclient needs to be added in gloabl-requirements04:34
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Dinesh_Bhorso that bot job will sync requirements of masakari-monitors04:35
samPDinesh_Bhor: good point..thanks04:35
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samPrkmrHonjo: is it possible for you to add this?04:36
Dinesh_BhorI do see this:https://github.com/openstack/masakari-monitors/blob/master/requirements.txt#L15 "*.dev5" requirement. I don't see such requirement specified in global-requirement04:37
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rkmrHonjosamP: OK, I try it.04:37
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Dinesh_BhorrkmrHonjo: thanks, if not let me know. I will do that04:38
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samPDinesh_Bhor: Its not in the global requirement now..04:39
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tpatilsamP: It's needs to be added here: https://github.com/openstack/requirements/blob/master/global-requirements.txt04:39
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Dinesh_Bhorand the respective upper constraints should be added here:https://github.com/openstack/requirements/blob/master/upper-constraints.txt04:40
rkmrHonjoDinesh_Bhor: The reason of specifying "*.dev5" is that current pypi version is that. : https://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-masakariclient/04:41
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samPrkmrHonjo: Dinesh_Bhor I will fix that..04:41
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rkmrHonjosamP: Thanks. Sorry for talking about it late.04:42
Dinesh_BhorrkmrHonjo: ok thanks for clarifying04:42
samPits because manual upload of pip pkgs.. I will fix that04:42
samPI will update the bot to do that..04:42
samPI will put stable and bot will update the current one and future tags. that will fix the problem..04:43
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samPany other topics?04:44
samPif not, we can end the meeting bit early..04:44
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sagaraI have no topic04:45
rkmrHonjome too.04:46
Dinesh_Bhornothing from me04:46
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tpatilNo more topics to be discussed from my side04:47
samPOK then, let's end the meeting here..04:47
samPThank you all....04:47
Dinesh_Bhorthanks all, bye04:47
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"04:47
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  4 04:47:39 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)04:47
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-04-04-04.01.html04:47
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-04-04-04.01.txt04:47
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-04-04-04.01.log.html04:47
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yamamoto#startmeeting networking_midonet07:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  4 07:01:44 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yamamoto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.07:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.07:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet'07:01
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yamamotoit seems that this is the first meeting in 2017!07:03
yamamotoi guess it makes sense to consider cancelling this meeting.07:03
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yamamotoif anyone want to keep this, please speak up, either offline or online.07:04
yamamotoi want to move the slot at least, as i have an overlapping schedule these days.07:05
yamamoto#topic Bugs07:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:06
yamamotothe gate is broken right now.07:06
yamamoto#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/452888/07:07
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yamamotoat least this change needs to be in.  but there seems other breakage as well.07:07
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yamamoto#topic Open Discussion07:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:09
* yamamoto waiting a few mins before closing07:09
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"07:15
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  4 07:15:46 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)07:15
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2017/networking_midonet.2017-04-04-07.01.html07:15
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2017/networking_midonet.2017-04-04-07.01.txt07:15
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2017/networking_midonet.2017-04-04-07.01.log.html07:15
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kota_#startmeeting storlets08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  4 08:00:34 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is kota_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storlets'08:00
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kota_who one attends today's meeting?08:00
kota_takashi: o/08:01
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takashikota_: hi08:01
kota_I'm glad to see you again here08:01
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takashikota_: me too08:01
kota_eranrom is absent today08:01
takashikota_: ok, np08:02
kota_do you know either sagara or akihito comming in?08:02
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kota_looks like akihit is absent too08:02
kota_#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Storlets08:03
takashikota_: I don't know, and I can't touch them easily now as I'm sitting in the another room, sorry08:03
kota_let's get started08:03
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takashikota_: sure08:04
kota_today, I cannot find specific topics in the agenda08:04
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kota_so go to open discussion08:04
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kota_#topic open-discussion08:04
*** openstack changes topic to "open-discussion (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:04
takashikota_: thx08:04
kota_can i say at first?08:04
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takashikota_: sure. go ahead08:04
kota_takashi: thanks for looking at https://review.openstack.org/452673 yesterday08:05
kota_#link https://review.openstack.org/45267308:05
kota_and it seems like it got merged a few minutes before you're back again :/08:05
takashikota_: I saw that eranrom just landed it08:06
takashikota_: yes08:06
kota_and it looks you had commented08:06
kota_so we should not keep open_writer method there ;-)08:06
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takashikota_: I think it is not so critical, so ok for landing the patch at now as it is now08:07
takashibut, as I wrote a comment on the patch, the open_writer func is so trivial that there seems no need to keep it there... :-(08:07
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takashias it is just a contextmanager wrapping a single contextmanager08:08
kota_takashi: I think so and the reason why I didn't remove it is for keeping current unit tests as it is as possible08:08
takashikota_: I see08:08
kota_to remove the method seems to make us more code change on the test08:08
kota_so separating it to the py3 fix is better i thought08:09
takashikota_: absolutely08:09
takashiI think the refactoring is another thing, so now it sounds better for me to do that in another cleaning up work.08:09
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kota_yup and the fix landed so let's refactor there08:09
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kota_next, in the last week, I spended time to review ipython extension proposed by eranrom08:10
kota_the original patch is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/416089/08:11
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takashiI saw some patches related to ipython work proposed to gerrit08:11
kota_but it seems eranrom squash up any follow-up patches into https://review.openstack.org/#/c/452649/08:11
kota_so note that patch 416089 is stale for now I think08:12
kota_sagara: hi :D08:12
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takashisagra: o/08:13
kota_takashi: that's just notation for reviews08:13
kota_and that's all from me today08:13
takashikota_: you mean all of the other small patches except patch 452649 will be abandoned, right?08:13
kota_takashi, sagara: there is something for you?08:13
kota_takashi: i think so, not yet making sure08:14
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takashikota_: ok08:14
sagaranothing. sorry08:14
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takashino big updates from my side. I think the first thing I should do is to update patch 40662008:14
takashibecause this has been a big blocker for other works in agents08:15
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takashiI've already checked the comment by you, kota_, and will address them08:15
kota_takashi: thank you!08:15
kota_i think the blocker is where the *halt* command should be defined08:16
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kota_if i remember correctly08:16
takashikota_: yes08:16
takashiI think I should make it more clear what is the 'common' thing among all (possible) agents08:17
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sagara> takashi, sagara: there is something for you? sorry. I misunderstood. I have not noticed talking context.08:18
kota_sagara: ah, just asking topics you want to bring here08:18
takashisagara: we don't have special topics for today, so he's just asking if we have any topics for discussion08:19
takashikota_: yes08:19
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kota_and i thought you answered... "nothing"?08:19
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sagaraI confused :-)08:22
takashisagara: do you have any topics. I already talked about my all topics (just about agent refactoring)08:24
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sagarano topic!08:24
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kota_thanks for attending the meeting and working on storlets08:25
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:25
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  4 08:25:17 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:25
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-04-04-08.00.html08:25
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-04-04-08.00.txt08:25
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-04-04-08.00.log.html08:25
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igordcard#startmeeting network_common_flow_classifier14:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  4 14:00:01 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is igordcard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'network_common_flow_classifier'14:00
igordcardhi all14:00
igordcardlet's wait 2 minutes for people14:00
igordcardhi davidsha14:00
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bcafarelhi folks14:01
igordcardhi bcafarel14:01
davidshabcafarel: Hey14:01
igordcardhow's the weather bcafarel ?14:01
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igordcardtmorin offline, others in the fwaas meeting14:02
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igordcardpcarver: ping14:02
bcafareligordcard: almost good enough to attend the meeting outside :) (but almost)14:02
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igordcardhi reedip14:03
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bcafareltmorin was in US time zone last week, maybe coming back home14:03
reediphi all ...14:03
bcafarelhello reedip14:03
davidshareedip: hey14:03
igordcard#topic PoC status14:04
*** openstack changes topic to "PoC status (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"14:04
igordcarddavidsha has published the PoC about 3 weeks ago14:04
igordcard#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445577/14:04
igordcardI'm slowly reviewing it but should finish soon14:05
igordcardone thing I'd like to ask is for some quick instructions on how to deploy it14:05
igordcardI only tried pointing at the devstack plugin, but stacking failed and I moved on14:05
davidshaigordcard: you just need to add it to the list of service plugins I think, give me 1 sec14:05
igordcardnp, add some info to the commit message perhaps14:06
igordcardit might also be failing because of the recent neutron commits14:06
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igordcardhi tmorin14:06
tmorinhi igordcard, hi eveyrone14:07
davidshakk, I'll need to fill out the other resource types and put in the classification groups.14:07
reedipyou need to consider the neutronlib migration as well , I think thats what davidsha is pointing to14:07
davidshahi tmorin14:07
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igordcardtmorin: you didn't lose much: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-04-04-14.00.log.txt14:07
tmorinhi davidsha :)14:07
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igordcarddavidsha: so the PoC has some initial Classification Types14:08
reedipmorning tmorin14:08
tmorinhi reedip14:08
igordcarddavidsha: and not grouping yet , right?14:08
davidshaigordcard: IPV4 is the only one that works in PoC14:09
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igordcarddavidsha: OK14:09
igordcarddavidsha: API, CLI, service plugin all there as far as I understand14:09
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davidshaigordcard: yup, I may remove the neutron client stuff once I get the Openstack client stuff working.14:10
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igordcarddavidsha: I have some pending comments, I'll drop them now on the review and do a deeper review later14:10
davidshakk, there is also RPC stuff so l2-extensions can retrieve the classifications using the id14:11
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igordcarddavidsha: oh right, the RPC conversation is an interesting one14:11
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igordcardwhich should be addressed in the spec too14:11
igordcardI'll add a TODO there14:11
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davidshaIf you guys get the chance it would be great to get your feedback on the PoC: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445577/114:13
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igordcardalright, anything else regarding the PoC? perhaps someone would like to contribute a Consuming Service PoC :p ?14:14
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davidshaigordcard: I had started a dscp patch to consume it. but it will need more work.14:15
igordcardgreat davidsha14:16
igordcardmoving on...14:16
igordcard#topic Live discussion of some of the spec's pending debates14:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Live discussion of some of the spec's pending debates (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"14:16
igordcard#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/333993/14:16
igordcardthis is the spec, your feedback is highly valuable so make sure to review it14:16
igordcardthere are certain pending questions/debates and, unless someone gets there and provides alternative solutions, the solutions that we are converging to will become final decisions14:17
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tmorindavidsha: I'll put it on my list, but not promising when I'll have a look14:17
igordcardso let's start with the question of validating classifications14:17
davidshatmorin: thanks14:18
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igordcardwe are trending towards not having any kind of classification validation at the CCF side14:18
igordcard(except basic attribute checking, of course)14:19
igordcardit will be up to Consuming Services to validate before consuming, and where and how they do it is completely out of scope14:19
tmorinI already commented on the spec: +1 to that14:20
igordcardI'll give you a couple of minutes to comment here, I understand some people are also watching or participating on the fwaas meeting14:20
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reedipyeah igordcard  : I think I will review the spec once more ( I saw it some days earlier but havent seen the latest iteration )14:21
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igordcardI hope to submit a new version this week14:21
igordcardalright, let's move on to the question of grouping classifications together14:22
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igordcardwe have 2 main possibilities right now: AND grouping only or AND/OR/NOT as defended by ihar14:23
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igordcardI'd prefer not to start with fully fledged AND/OR/NOT yet, and I'm not sure existing potential Consuming Services need that14:24
reedipigordcard, but we need to ensure that we dont push ourselves to a corner with AND :)14:25
igordcardreedip: yeah... the data model should be almost AND/OR/NOT -compatible14:25
igordcardreedip: a small change and api extension should make it possible to enable AND/OR/NOT14:25
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reedipigordcard : it would be best if we can do the change before the official P release , just saying to avoid migration:)14:26
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igordcardI'll think a bit more about how much work is truly needed to support AND/OR/NOT from day one, if it isn't that much let's do it - before the official P release yeah14:26
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igordcardthe spec doesn't yet specify anything about classification groups, but the next patchset will14:28
igordcardlet's move on to the question of having special "modifiers" as part of the classification resource14:28
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igordcardthe trend seems to be to not having modifiers14:29
igordcardmaking it out of scope and have the CSs add their own modifiers14:29
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davidshaigordcard: as in update existing classifications?14:29
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igordcardso a modifier would be something common to the whole Classification14:30
igordcardinstead of a type-dependent attribute14:30
igordcardlike a direction14:30
davidshaigordcard: kk, ack14:30
igordcardClassification X: type:{def}; direction; other-modifier;...14:31
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igordcardbut then it also begs the question: is a modifier compatible with any possible type defined?14:31
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igordcardhi ralonsoh14:33
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davidshaigordcard: in the direction example I don't believe so, particularly when some of the classification have explicit source and destination addresses14:33
tmorinigordcard: sorry for the delayed answer: I think the spec could describe the fullfledge AND/OR/NOT-compound groups, but that we can then give a lower priority to implementing OR and NOT and "recursivity" in compound groups14:33
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igordcardtmorin: alright, I'll investigate that further.. I'm concerned that it might significantly impact the implementation, and delay14:35
igordcarddavidsha: yeah that's an example14:36
tmorinigordcard: the real question is whether or not we can delay the implementation of the fullfledged combination14:36
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igordcardtmorin: if the delay is between ccf v1 and ccf v2, it's fine but we'll have an api extension just for that14:37
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igordcardv1 is aimed at Pike14:38
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igordcardif there are no further requests about modifiers/common attributes, I'll make that explicitly out of scope14:39
tmorinigordcard: I don't know, perhaps this needs to be discussed: even if we implement the fullfledged version in v1,  if no consuming service supports it, then there is no value for API users to have advertised that we support the fullfledged version  => hence, why would we have to advertise support for the fullfledged version with an additional api extension ?14:39
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tmorinI think we might perhaps fully specify the fullfledged, implement only a part of it, and initially no consumer will support it14:40
igordcardtmorin: exactly, makes sense... so either do it all in v1 or wait until the "need"14:40
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igordcardtmorin: implement only a part of it?14:41
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tmorinthe real relevant question for users in terms of exposing what is supported is whether a given type of classification or compound is supported by consumer service foo14:41
tmorinand this can't be done with a simple API extension anyways14:41
tmorinigordcard: yes, the part of it initially implemented would be AND-compound14:41
igordcardtmorin: yes, in the end it's the CS's responsibility to support a certain set of classification capabilities14:42
igordcardindependently or with the help of CCF14:42
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igordcardtmorin: but if you only implement part of the API, why have a fully fledged API? non-AND composition calls would fail14:43
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tmorinigordcard: yes, but if no consumer service supports them, this is fine, right ?14:44
igordcardtmorin: oh yes, sure14:44
igordcardthey can add support whenever they want, no CCF changes would be necessary14:45
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igordcard#action igordcard to investigate AND/OR/NOT modeling and potential issues14:47
igordcardlet's move on14:47
igordcardany other things we have to debate and attempt to reach consensus?14:47
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igordcardnext spec will be highly trimmed14:49
igordcardfocus/scope on the ccf specifically14:50
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igordcardwhat consuming services do essentially out of scope14:50
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igordcardit will also have a single answer for each of the 3 pending debates and, unless there's disagreement, we'll go with those answers for the implementation14:51
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igordcardthe and/or/not grouping is the toughest to decide14:51
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igordcardthere's also ihar's very important suggestion:14:52
igordcard- governance matters (where the code goes, who is in the review and development team)14:52
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davidshaigordcard: ajo is leaving neutron, vikram and sean collins are the other 2 core reviewers in neutron classifier I believe14:53
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igordcarddavidsha: right and that leads me to14:53
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igordcarddavidsha: you mentioned not much code is being reused form the neutron-classifier on the PoC14:54
davidshaigordcard: basically no code is reused.14:54
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igordcarddavidsha: unless it's potential that a big portion of the code can be reused, I'd prefer to create a new repo14:55
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igordcarddavidsha: or we would have to wipe the current on in neutron-classifier... which doesn't make much sense14:55
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davidshaigordcard: It's a repo that's already approved though. I'm not sure how long will it take to get a new one.14:56
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igordcarddavidsha: we can work on the code while we wait for approval tho14:57
igordcarddavidsha: also neutron-classifier is not governed14:57
igordcardin any way14:57
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igordcardand I believe that's the most critical question... how is the governance going to be?14:57
davidshawhat do you mean?14:58
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igordcarddavidsha: exactly, I'll chat to ihar about this14:59
igordcard#action igordcard to talk about governance with ihar14:59
igordcardalright people, we're done for today!14:59
igordcardbye all14:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  4 14:59:38 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-04-04-14.00.html14:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-04-04-14.00.txt14:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-04-04-14.00.log.html14:59
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yuval#startmeeting karbor15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  4 15:00:57 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'15:01
yuvalHey all, welcome to Karbor's weekly meeting15:01
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yuvalMost of the current contributors are from China, and it is Qingming Festival, not many will arrive15:02
yuvalhey chenying_15:02
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yuvalchenying_: thanks for showing up on the holiday15:03
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yuvalI'm afraid nothing to discuss right now. We will speak tomorrow in Karbor's channel15:04
chenying_yuval: Ok see you tomorrow.15:04
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:05
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  4 15:05:05 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:05
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-04-04-15.00.html15:05
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-04-04-15.00.txt15:05
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-04-04-15.00.log.html15:05
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ihrachys#startmeeting neutron_ci16:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  4 16:00:42 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ci'16:00
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ihrachyshi everyone, thanks for joining16:01
ihrachyswe will start with our tradition - reviewing action items from prev meeting16:01
ihrachys#topic Action items from prev meeting16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from prev meeting (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:01
ihrachyshuh, "ihrachys fix e-r bot not reporting in irc channel"16:01
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* ihrachys turns red16:01
ihrachysno, it's not tackled16:01
ihrachysI wonder if history shows I can't tackle it in due time :)16:02
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ihrachysI will repeat it for the next time, but you know...16:02
ihrachys#action ihrachys fix e-r bot not reporting in irc channel16:02
ihrachysif someone wants to help tracking it, you are welcome16:03
ihrachysnext was "mlavalle to fix the grafana board to include gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-dvr-multinode-full-ubuntu-xenial-nv"16:03
mlavalleI submitted this patchset: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/452294/16:03
ihrachysseems like it merged: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/452294/16:03
ihrachysmlavalle, good job16:03
mlavalleand it got merged last night16:03
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mlavalleThanks for the reviews :-)16:04
ihrachysnow, let's have a look how the dashboard looks like now16:04
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ihrachysshould be here: http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate?panelId=8&fullscreen16:04
reedipo\ /o16:04
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ihrachys35% failure rate it seems16:05
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mlavalleyeap about that16:06
ihrachysthat job is non-voting16:06
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ihrachysmlavalle, haleyb: is there any plan in l3 team to make it the gate job that could replace non-dvr/non-multinode flavours?16:07
mlavallenot that I'm aware of16:07
ihrachysI remember there was a plan to make ha+dvr the gate setup, but at this point it seems dim16:08
mlavallebut haleyb may have a plan16:08
mlavalleif he is not on-line....16:08
haleybihrachys: yes, the plan was to get the ha+dvr change merged16:08
mlavalleI will bring this up during the next L3 team meeting on Thursday16:08
ihrachyshaleyb, I think devstack-gate piece landed, no?16:08
ihrachysthis one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383827/16:09
ihrachysthere is a test patch from anil here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383833/ but I don't know what's the state there16:09
ihrachyshaleyb, are you in touch with anil?16:09
haleybihrachys: no, but we will add this to the list of items at the L3 meeting16:10
ihrachysok cool, thanks16:10
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ihrachysok next one was on me16:10
ihrachys"ihrachys to report bugs for fullstack race in ovs agent when calling to enable_connection_uri"16:10
ihrachysthere are mixed news here16:10
ihrachysI haven't reported bugs just yet but...16:10
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ihrachysI was working on some OSP Ocata test failures, and while reading through logs, I spotted that we see the same duplicate messages in logs when setting manager16:11
ihrachysso it's not only fullstack issue16:11
ihrachysthe env I see it is an actual multinode deployment16:12
ihrachysfor reference, this is the error I talk about: http://logs.openstack.org/98/446598/1/check/gate-neutron-dsvm-fullstack-ubuntu-xenial/2e0f93e/logs/dsvm-fullstack-logs/TestOvsConnectivitySameNetworkOnOvsBridgeControllerStop.test_controller_timeout_does_not_break_connectivity_sigkill_GRE-and-l2pop,openflow-native_ovsdb-cli_/neutron-openvswitch-agent--2017-03-16--16-06-05-730632.txt.gz?level=TRACE16:12
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ihrachysapparently the code that sets managers for native ovsdb driver is raceful when executed by two agents16:12
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ihrachyswhich can of course happen because we deploy multiple agents on a single node16:13
ihrachysand each of them uses its own copy of ovsdb connection16:13
ihrachysso, just a heads up; and it's still on me to report the bug16:13
ihrachys#action ihrachys to report bugs for fullstack race in ovs agent when calling to enable_connection_uri16:14
ihrachys#action haleyb or mlavalle to report back on ha+dvr plan after l3 meeting16:14
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ihrachysthere was also a long standing action item on jlibosva to prepare py3 transition plan for Pike16:15
ihrachysI doubt it's ready though sicnce jlibosva was offline for a while16:15
ihrachysjlibosva, but that's your chance to surprize everyone16:15
jlibosvano surprise16:15
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ihrachysthat's ok, I would be really surprized16:15
ihrachys#action jlibosva to prepare py3 transition plan for Pike16:16
ihrachyswe can walk through it the next week16:16
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ihrachys#topic Patches in review16:16
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ihrachysmanjeets's patch to add gate-failure bugs to neutron review board seems stuck: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439114/16:16
ihrachysclarkb, I know you +2d it. who could be the 2nd person to review it?16:17
manjeetsihrachys, I posted it on infra channel but did not get attention16:17
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manjeetsmay be need to find out16:17
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ihrachysok I guess we will need to chase them somehow16:19
ihrachys#action ihrachys to chase infra to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439114/16:19
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manjeetsjeremy stanley16:19
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manjeetsdon't know his irc handle16:19
ihrachysI am also aware of this set of backports to fix scenario jobs in lbaas: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/I5d41652a85cfb91646bb48d38eedbe97741a97c2,n,z (mitaka seems broken but I probably won't have time till EOL to fix it)16:19
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ihrachysmanjeets, I think it's fungi16:20
ihrachysI also revise a bit how we disable dvr tests for dvrskip scenario jobs here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/453212/16:20
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fungiyep, that's me16:21
ihrachysdasanind has a patch fixing sporadic tempest failure because of missing project_id on first API call: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447781/ Now that it has a functional test, it should probably be ready, though I am still to look at the test.16:21
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clarkbihrachys: probably fungi or pabelanger16:21
ihrachysfungi, wonder if you could push https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439114/16:21
fungilooking into it now16:22
dasanindihrachys: I am getting a tempest test failure for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447781/16:22
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ihrachysdasanind, is it stable? or just a single failure? becuase the test is for Cinder API, and doesn't look neutron related for what I can see from 30 secs of log inspection16:23
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fungimanjeets: ihrachys: clarkb: i've approved 439114 now16:24
ihrachysfungi, thanks a lot!16:24
manjeetsthanks fungi16:24
dasanindihrachys: it's just a single failure16:24
fungiany time16:24
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ihrachysdasanind, ok, then it's probably something else. you are of course advised to report a bug if there is no bug that tracks the failure for cinder just yet.16:24
dasanindihrachys: will do16:25
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ihrachysanother failure that we track is fullstack being broken by kevinbenton's change in provisioning blocks where we now require some ml2 driver to deliver the dhcp block for a dhcp enabled port to transition to ACTIVE16:26
ihrachysmore info here: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114796.html16:26
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ihrachysjlibosva has a patch for fullstack here: https://review.openstack.org/45170416:26
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ihrachysit may need some additional investigation on why we seem to need to set agent_down_time=10 to make it pass16:26
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jlibosvaI think it might not be needed but I don't understand why the tests fail on my env if I don't set the agent down time16:27
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jlibosvaI'll wait for CI results and will try to remove that16:27
ihrachysjlibosva, wonder what happens if we post a patch on top cleaning those up16:27
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jlibosvaihrachys: I went through patches that added dhcp tests and the agent_down_time is just to lower waiting when agent goes down in a failover test16:28
jlibosvafor HA16:28
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ihrachysjlibosva, but we don't failover in those tests that you touched do we?16:29
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ihrachysok we will probably track it offline16:31
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ihrachysspeaking of other patches16:31
jlibosvaihrachys: nope16:32
ihrachysmy attention was brought to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/421155/ that fixes dvr tests for multinode setups (I expect it to affect our new ha+dvr job)16:32
ihrachysI marked the bug as gate-failure for that matter16:33
ihrachysto ease tracking it16:33
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ihrachysthere is some back and forth there in comments about where to fix it first - tempest or neutron (seems like the test is duplicated)16:33
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ihrachysanyhoo, I am glad to see it got attention from some :)16:33
ihrachysthere seems to be a proposal to add a job using ryu master against neutron: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445262/16:35
ihrachysnot sure why it's added in gate and not e.g. periodic16:36
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ihrachysok I left a comment there16:37
ihrachysthere is also that long standing patch from jlibosva that documents how rechecks should be approached in gate: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426829/16:38
ihrachysmlavalle, I wonder if your WIP is still needed there16:38
mlavalleI can remove it16:38
mlavalleI don't think it is useful anymore16:38
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ihrachysyeah the patch seems to take a lot of time to get in16:39
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mlavalleI'll just merge it now16:39
ihrachysI wonder if it's ok for me to just push it, or I better seek +W from e.g. kevinbenton16:39
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ihrachyssince it's policy thing16:39
mlavalleyeah, I think it would be good to get Kevinbenton's blessing16:40
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mlavalleI'll just remove the -116:40
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ihrachysI am not aware of any other patches. have I missed anything?16:42
ihrachysotherwiseguy, how close are we to pull the trigger on ovsdbapp switch? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/438087/16:43
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ihrachysok I guess otherwiseguy is offline16:46
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otherwiseguyoh hi16:47
ihrachyshow's ovsdbapp doing?16:47
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ihrachysok otherwiseguy says he has some connectivity issues16:49
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ihrachys#topic Bugs16:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:49
ihrachysthere seems to be nothing actionable in the list that we haven't discussed already16:50
ihrachys#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=gate-failure16:50
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ihrachysI am still not clear why we track e.g. vpnaas bugs that is not even stadium subproject under neutron component16:51
ihrachyslet's discuss something else16:51
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ihrachys#topic Open discussion16:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:51
ihrachysinfra seems to switch the whole gate that uses ubuntu xenial to UCA: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-April/114912.html16:52
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ihrachysthat's ubuntu cloud archive, a repo that contains new versions of libvirt, openvswitch and such16:52
clarkbwell I am posing the question :)16:52
clarkbI think newer ovs (2.6.1 compared to 2.5.0) helps neutron?16:52
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ihrachysclarkb, I think fullstack may make use of 2.6.1 so that we can stop compilation for kernel modules16:53
jlibosvaclarkb: would the image get also the newer kernel?16:53
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clarkbjlibosva: no UCA doesn't have nweer kernels in it16:53
ihrachysright, question is, are images built with UCA on?16:53
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ihrachysor it's enabled after the fact16:53
jlibosvaah, would be useful for fullstack16:53
clarkband they wouldn't be built with UCA on (most likely not at least, that specific detail isn't completely 100% settled)16:53
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jlibosvabut it may help the disabled functional tests16:54
clarkbihrachys: even if it was enabled during image builds we woulnd't get newer kernels16:54
ihrachysclarkb, is it possible to get an image with newer kernel too? otherwise we will still compile it seems.16:54
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ihrachysfor functional, the only benefit is we will be able to reenable two tests16:54
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clarkbihrachys: we could possibly do hardware enablement but unlike UCA I think ubuntu/canonical says not to use hardware enablement on servers16:55
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jlibosvawe could also precompile the kernel module and fetch it from reliable storage instead of compiling the same all the time16:55
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ihrachysclarkb, sorry, what's hardware enablement?16:55
clarkbihrachys: its a separate thing that ubuntu does, where they publish newer kernels for LTS so that your new shiny laptop with silly new peripheral design will work16:56
ihrachysjlibosva, the module should match kernel; if kernel is updated by ubuntu, we are screwed16:56
ihrachysjlibosva, it may not load16:56
jlibosvaihrachys: but we won't get newer kernel16:56
ihrachysjlibosva, not new enough; but they can still update it for CVE or whatnot16:56
clarkbI'm sort of confused why a new kernel is necessary16:56
jlibosvathere is a bug in kernel datapath for local vxlan traffic16:56
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ihrachysclarkb, openvswitch kernel pieces contain a fix that is needed for some fullstack tunneling feature16:57
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clarkbi see, has that been filed against ubuntu?16:57
ihrachysjlibosva should really document that somewhere16:57
jlibosvathere was a bug, let me search16:57
ihrachys#action jlibosva document current openvswitch requirements for fullstack/functional in TESTING.rst16:57
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clarkbI think if we want to talk about newer kernels that avenue for that would be the hardware enablement kernels and that would be separate from any use of UCA16:58
ihrachysclarkb, one consideration when switching should also be revising https://review.openstack.org/#/c/402940/4/reference/project-testing-interface.rst not to give wrong message to consumers16:58
ihrachysthe way the document is worded now suggests that you can safely deploy from LTS bits16:58
ihrachysclarkb, ack16:58
jlibosvaclarkb: this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/kernel/+bug/162709516:58
openstackLaunchpad bug 1627095 in linux "Request to backport fix for local VxLAN" [Undecided,New]16:58
clarkbihrachys: well thats what openstack has stated it will support16:58
clarkbihrachys: so if its not the case we should ork to fix that16:58
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ihrachysclarkb, question is, should we work on it retroactively once bugs are revealed, or maintain a job that proves it still works, even if not too stable?16:59
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clarkbihrachys: I think working with the distros to keep a functioning useable "openstack" is likely ideal. I don't know how practical that is in reality though17:00
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clarkbihrachys: our users are deploying on these distros, if they don't work then our users will be sad (like me!))17:00
jlibosvawe're out of time17:00
ihrachysright. anyhow would make sense to update docs based on UCA decision.17:00
ihrachysok time indeed17:00
ihrachysthanks folks17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  4 17:00:53 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-04-04-16.00.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-04-04-16.00.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-04-04-16.00.log.html17:00
jlibosvathanks, bye17:00
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lbragstad#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  4 18:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
lbragstad#topic roll call18:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
lbragstadping agrebennikov, amakarov, annakoppad, antwash, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, chrisplo, cmurphy, davechen, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, edtubill, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, jamielennox, jaugustine, jgrassler, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, kbaikov, ktychkova, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, portdirect, raildo, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, SamYaple, shaleh, spilla, srwilkers,18:00
lbragstad StefanPaetowJisc, stevemar, topol, shardy, ricolin18:00
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lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:01
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lbragstadsince we're doing roll call to prune the list of folks on the ping list, we'll give it another minute18:02
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ayounghenrynash, how are ya!18:03
henrynashI’m absolutely spiffing, old boy18:03
lbragstadalright - cool, let's get started18:03
lbragstad#topic forum proposals18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "forum proposals (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
lbragstadhere is a list of all proposed keystone-related sessions for the forum18:03
lbragstad#link http://forumtopics.openstack.org/cfp/details/918:03
lbragstad#link http://forumtopics.openstack.org/cfp/details/9018:04
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lbragstad#link http://forumtopics.openstack.org/cfp/details/4518:04
lbragstad#link http://forumtopics.openstack.org/cfp/details/9218:04
lbragstadfeel free to review and leave comments18:04
lbragstadthat'd be a good way to prepare for those discussions to come in Boston18:04
ayounglbragstad, very nice18:05
lbragstadI wanted to advertise them here since the deadline for proposals was last week18:05
lbragstad#topic Direction of coupling SQL with foreign keys18:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Direction of coupling SQL with foreign keys (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:05
lbragstaddstanek o/18:05
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lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44550518:05
dstanek    #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44550518:05
lbragstad^ relevant context18:06
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rodrigodswhere is morgan :)18:06
dstanekso that review brought up some interesting questions in my mind18:06
dstanekso the first is that even though identity and federation are in separate python packages they are really tightly coupled18:06
dstanekso having foreign keys between those subsystems makes sense to me18:07
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rderosedstanek: ++18:07
ayoungcan we merge them?18:07
ayoungAs I see it, Federation is the framework, identity is the self contained implementation18:07
rodrigodsfederation is an auth method18:07
rodrigodsauth method framework18:08
rodrigodseverything around it is to proper handle auth18:08
ayoungfederated_user  should probably be in the federated backend if anything18:08
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dstanekfederation is highly coupled with identity. no matter what arbitrary boxes we want to draw18:08
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ayoungdstanek, very right18:09
ayoungI wonder if we are wrong to even treat them as separate things. Really historical accident only.18:09
dstanekso forcing us the do dumb things to avoid FKs seems crazy18:09
dstanekayoung: ++18:09
ayoungrodrigods, any strong opinion?18:10
rodrigodsayoung, nope18:10
dstanekfederation is technically not much different that the ldap identity backend18:10
ayoungdstanek, I would love to have LDAP reimplemented in terms of Federation18:10
lbragstadis notmorgan around?18:10
rodrigodsdstanek, ^ that depends on how you are looking to federation18:10
henrynashdstanek: I think that is a (slightly) different argument regarding LDAP18:11
rodrigodshenrynash, ++18:11
ayoungwas this done at my insistence?18:11
dstanekrodrigods: how is it different?18:11
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henrynashdstanek: using the backend drivers does not require accepting the conceptual model of federation, which means that youcan’t “read user identites” from keystone...18:12
ayounghenrynash, if LDAP was done right, it would be provided by an apache module before it ever hit the Keystone code, like mod_shib et alles18:12
dstanekwe use some external thing as the source of users/groups and keep a lightweight pointer to it locally - federation is just more more involved to do those thing18:12
henrynashdstanek: now it is an interesting ppint that with shadwo users, maybe taht distinction goes away18:12
rodrigodsdstanek, so fed_users are federation18:12
rodrigodsnot identity18:12
ayoungeven SQL could be implemented as a "populate env vars prior to hitting Keystone proper"18:13
rodrigodsi'm getting confused18:13
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henrynashayoung: agree that we could (and should) also support that18:13
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ayoungand then the write capability of the identity backend would really be a separate subsystem from auth.18:13
ayoungrodrigods, I think we are all saying that we should make Federation a first class citizen in Keystone, and merge it in with the identity code for the most part, but there are some historical accidents that make that hard to do right up front18:14
henrynashThe issue for me is that up until now federation == new usage model (i.e. “users aren’t in keystone, so don’t go there for info on them”, while identity was the more traditonal model18:14
rodrigodsayoung, hmm agree18:14
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dstanekhenrynash: which as you pointed out isn't true any longer18:14
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rodrigodsfed_users is the glue between identity and federation18:15
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rodrigodsso... yeah, i guess dstanek has a point18:15
dstanekrodrigods: federated users are a part of the identity system today18:15
henrynashAs I said (although as you all know I’m still no fan of shadow users)…if we were to go “all in” and make shadow users look like the old model, then I cold be convinced18:15
ayoungit is shadow users.  We just called it something else18:16
henrynash(although not quite convinced it should do that)18:16
henrynashsorry….it *could* do that18:16
dstanekthis brought up a more interesting point in my mind...how much value is it to not assume SQL (or at the very least assume that RI is handled by the backend and not keystone)18:16
dstanekor maybe that backends are all or nothing (SQL, mongo if you can stomach it, etc)18:16
dstaneknot looking for an answer to this....just want to bring it up and see if there are thoughts18:17
lbragstadi know notmorgan had an opinion18:17
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ayoungOK...so what do you mean by " it to not assume SQL"18:17
lbragstadmaybe we take an action to continue the conversation and ensure we get his viewpoint, too18:17
ayoungwhat is "it" in this question>?18:17
henrynashdstanek: I agree we are kind of “sticking to the old rules” even though they are becoming less convincing they are buying us anything (I.e. it’s either SQL everywhere, or SQL everywhere except LDAP for Identity)18:18
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ayoungIt think it is SQL everywhere as a federation layer, and then it talks some other protocol...18:18
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ayoungcleaner model conceptually18:18
dstanekayoung: we do backflips in code to enforce FKs in Python because we assume (or want to enable) non-SQL systems to store data18:18
ayoungdstanek, right18:19
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dstaneki'm just wondering is people think that is still valuable overall18:19
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ayoungdstanek, would love to kill the SQL identity backend and only to Federation18:19
ayoungdo Federation18:20
ayoungin the Auth pipelien18:20
dstaneki don't want to take up too much time as i can write this up offline, but i want to give people the change to save me from that work by telling me they hate it18:20
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ayoungkeep[ the RI checks in Python18:20
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dstanekayoung: i'm talking about *all* backends18:20
lbragstaddstanek maybe start a ML post?18:20
rodrigodslbragstad, ++18:20
lbragstadand yeah - whatever we do we should be consistent18:20
rodrigodsdstanek, conceptually, separating the backends is correct18:20
ayoungyeah, would like to see it clearly laid out what you are proposing.18:20
dstaneklbragstad: ++18:20
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dstanekrodrigods: why?18:21
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lbragstadnot assuming RI in one backend and not in another would be a terrible experience18:21
rodrigodsbut only if adds some value18:21
ayoungIf we were consistent, we would treat SQL like every other federation backend18:21
rodrigodsdstanek, for the reasons you said above18:21
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dstanekrodrigods: so that people can make architectural mistakes? do you see value in separate backends by subsystem?18:21
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rodrigodsdstanek, only if "<dstanek> ayoung: we do backflips in code to enforce FKs in Python because we assume (or want to enable) non-SQL systems to store data"18:22
dstanekrodrigods: that's a reason not to allow different backends18:22
ayoungrodrigods, you OK with letting that patch go?18:23
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rodrigodsdstanek, what? heh18:23
rodrigodsayoung, i'm completely fine18:23
rodrigodsi was convinced by morgan18:23
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rodrigodslet me search the abandoned backport patch18:23
lbragstadis everyone good to move this to the mailing list/18:24
rodrigodsdstanek, ayoung see morgan's comment https://review.openstack.org/#/c/420893/18:24
lbragstaddstanek would you mind starting that thread? or do you want me to?18:24
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dstaneklbragstad: i'll go ahead and do it18:24
lbragstad#action dstanek to start ML thread on FK constraints in backends or python18:24
lbragstaddstanek thanks18:24
lbragstad#topic Pike specs18:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Pike specs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:25
lbragstad1.5 weeks until spec proposal freeze18:25
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ayoungHe's not wrong.18:25
lbragstad9 weeks until spec freeze18:25
lbragstad#topic Pike specs: unified limits18:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Pike specs: unified limits (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:25
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44081518:25
lbragstadsdague o/18:25
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ayoungsdague, what limits are we talking about besides existing quotas?18:26
lbragstadsdague thanks for keeping up with that spec btw18:26
sdagueayoung: none really18:26
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sdagueyeh, this is the follow on from the PTG discussion about moving the limits definitions into keystone18:27
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lbragstadand leaving allocation enforcement to the service18:27
sdagueright exactly18:27
ayoungsdague, how strongly do you feel about this being the right direction?  We've trod this ground a time or two, and it has never been Keystone that stopped the discussion18:27
sdagueayoung: well, we got the PTLs from cinder, glance, neutron, nova all on board with it18:28
lbragstadi think there are several differences in the current proposal from the ones we've hashed in the past18:28
* notmorgan swears he's been lurking the whole time and not on ehte phone18:28
dstanekayoung: what i'm a fan of is that keystone doen't do quotas - is provides limit metadata18:29
sdaguethis is the concept spec for it, which it would be good to get keystone team to decide if we're doing this18:29
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ayoungOK...so I kind of like it in theory, and think that Keystone's current orginazation sucks to support it in practice, but if the other leads are OK with it, I don't see that as a deal breaker18:29
ayoungsdague, when would limits be queried?18:29
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sdaguethen I can work up a lower level spec with the actual interfaces18:29
sdagueayoung: every time that info is needed18:29
notmorgansdague: ++18:29
rodrigodsnotmorgan, we are going to have a ML thread about FKs between subsystems18:29
notmorganrodrigods: no.18:30
notmorganrodrigods: no need, just need to add a test mechanism (i have a way to do this)18:30
ayoungsdague, and we would not treat this as an authorization process18:30
sdagueayoung: meaning?18:30
notmorganrodrigods: i'm simply going to make SQlite run in different DBs for each subsystem :P18:30
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ayoungsdague, not part of token validation18:31
notmorganrodrigods: so the tests will totally fail.18:31
notmorganrodrigods: :P18:31
rodrigodsnotmorgan, lol18:31
sdagueayoung: no, you would be using a valid token to get this information18:31
lbragstadayoung "187+Service/Administrative users will have this read access for all projects."18:31
sdagueeither project scoped, and get the rpoject18:31
ayoungsdague, I could see the token validation process used to fetch the data, but not do anything with it18:31
notmorganrodrigods: if you're doing FKs between systems as a ML topic, keep in mind we likely will simply move back to a single unified DB and drop non-sql options18:31
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ayoungsdague, been a long time coming.  I think this can work18:32
notmorganrodrigods: if you ask too many people18:32
rodrigodsnotmorgan, dstanek is going to be responsible to write it18:32
sdagueayoung: ah, so, that is probably a keystone internals question. I don't think that every token validation needs this, more that it would be a dedicated interface18:32
ayoungnotmorgan, does that mean we can drop LDAP?18:32
lbragstadsdague ++18:32
rodrigodsi'm just http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/tumblr_ljh0puClWT1qfkt17.gif18:32
notmorganayoung: heh18:32
lbragstadsdague when we talked about the limit data before, we were pretty clear that the last thing we wanted to do with it was stuff it into the token18:32
notmorganrodrigods: in short, i have a plan to make it a hard-set thing18:32
lbragstadsdague afair18:33
sdagueso, the big question right now, is getting keystone team approve to move forward in concept, so I can start the more detailed interface design and hopefully get some progress this cycle18:33
notmorganif i have time to write it.18:33
ayounglbragstad, technically it does not go into the *token*18:33
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notmorgansdague: i like this plan.18:33
sdaguelbragstad: I definitely agree, not in token18:33
notmorgansdague: and i appreciate the work you (and the other folks) are putting into it.18:33
lbragstadnotmorgan sdague ++18:33
sdagueat L242 the "not in token" is called out again explicitly18:34
ayoungsdague, you did the mnost important part:  getting consensus from the other teams about the scope and limits of...limits?18:34
sdagueayoung: yeh, we seem pretty bought in there18:34
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dstaneksdague: i like the work here and don't see why we shouldn't be able to agree to it18:34
ayoungthat is where the discussion has fallen apart in the past.  We probably should plan on having the limit as an optional part of the token validation process, as that is a nefficiency question18:34
ayoungit would be passed from Auth token middleware via headers like other info18:34
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ayoungand getting that defined properly is probably the hardest part18:35
ayoungesp for, say Neutron that might have quotas on 16 different types of resources18:35
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ayoungcan always be done as a deliberate call to Keystone, but that is going to be an additional round trip.  Probably OK, but worth considering if it is worth/necessary18:36
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lbragstadFWIW - i'm good to +2 the spec. I think we should probably propose it to On-Going since it's a really well written document18:36
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sdaguelbragstad: so, revise with the other directory?18:36
lbragstadsdague yeah - i think that'd be best18:36
sdagueI can do that pretty quick18:37
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ayoungOK...my turn?18:37
lbragstadsdague awesome - after that i'm good to +2 and I'd encourage other keystone folks to give it a good hard look18:37
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lbragstadsdague is there anything you need from us as next steps outside of reviewing the new spec?18:38
ayounglets agree to meet and hammer out a strawman-level API at the summit18:38
sdagueayoung: so, I intend to do that in advance18:39
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sdagueas another spec18:39
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sdagueand there is already a discussion on unified limits and hierarchical quota models for Boston where we can talk about some of this as well18:40
ayoungThat will work18:40
lbragstad#link http://forumtopics.openstack.org/cfp/details/918:40
samueldmqNice. Will be good to have those as topics next month in Boston18:41
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ayoungNext topic?18:42
lbragstadsdague thanks again, let us know if you need anything else?18:42
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lbragstad#topic Pike specs: RBAC from Middleware18:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Pike specs: RBAC from Middleware (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:42
sdaguelbragstad: just a +A :)18:42
ayoungRBAC from Middleware   https://review.openstack.org/#/c/452198/   sdague would love your input on it18:42
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/452198/18:42
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lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/401808/18:42
ayoungSo, this has been under discussion a long time, and I would like to see it come to fruition18:43
ayoungthe goals here have been to balance all of the demands on RBAC18:43
dstaneksdague: thanks for your hard work here18:43
lbragstaddstanek ++18:43
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ayoungnamely, it is essential to all of the other services that RBAC be enforced in a consistant way to ensure we are not opening security holes18:44
ayoungmaking policy safe to modify without breaking services18:44
samueldmqWe need to take care how we're doing that I think18:44
ayoungmake it possible to upgrade, etc18:44
dstanekayoung: has there been any x-project discussion about this yet?18:44
samueldmqI'd really like to see how that fits with the current discussion on policies18:44
lbragstaddstanek there was some on the spec, but it merged18:44
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samueldmqAnd the direction we're going18:45
ayoungsamueldmq, very much so, and this proposal is the best we've been able to hammer out.  I'd like to make sure, at a minimum, that Keystone core understands, not just the proposal, but the whys behind it.18:45
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lbragstadayoung why don't you start with the two things you shared yesterday you'd like to solve18:45
ayoungWe've had discussions on it in the policy meetings, in cross project meetings at prior summits (I misseed the PTG)18:45
* lbragstad and ayoung talked a lot yesterday18:45
ayoungso, as the hippocratic oath says "First, do no harm"18:45
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ayoungthe goal here is to not introduce anything that will destabilize the existing policy work18:46
ayoungbut rather, compliement it18:46
ayounga long time identified goal is to split role enforcement from scope18:46
samueldmqI just wanted to make sure people/deloyera want to have 2 layers of policy18:46
ayoungscope is "does this token have a project that matches the project of the resource"18:46
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ayoungthe scope check is an engineering decision.  End users should not customize it, as they will only break it, not make things better18:47
ayoungthus, editing policy files is a risky business18:47
samueldmqayoung: that is to enforce token roles in the middeware correct?18:47
ayoungsamueldmq, yes18:47
lbragstadno - the scope check belongs in the service18:47
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lbragstadbecause it takes into account things that only the service knows about18:48
ayoungexplicitly, this proposal is to make a check in the middleware, prior to the scope check, that only checks the roles18:48
dstaneki've stated by objects to the current URL approach in that paste18:48
samueldmqayoung: I didjt mean final users but deployera18:48
lbragstadthe rbac check is what is being proposed we do in middleware18:48
ayoungand the role matches (for now) only a rule based on the URL18:48
dstanekand i'm worried what this does to the in-code effort of having sane defaults18:48
ayoungthat means it will not support role to instance of resources or any other checks like that18:48
samueldmqSo is the goal to have the role checks only in the middleware?18:49
ayoungan example would be the url for say creating a network port:18:49
samueldmqAnd in the service we only keep scope checks?18:49
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ayoungsoimething like serivce=network verb=PUT /port18:49
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ayoungin middleware, we would check what role is associated with the above:18:49
samueldmqI wanted to see how this converge in the future eith the other work, rather than checking roles in 2 places18:49
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ayoungassuming a starting case of there being two roles:18:50
ayoungadmin and Member18:50
lbragstadsamueldmq i have similar concerns about the usability of that18:50
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dstaneksamueldmq: i think you have to real with roles during a scope check if we allow complicated rules18:50
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ayoungdstanek, samueldmq lbragstad yes.  We are not going to remove anything from policy.  But I think we can persuade people to leave policy alone18:51
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ayoungif they really really need complex policy, let them write it.18:51
lbragstadI'd be curious to see operators give their feedback on this, I don't think we had any operators review the original spec that was merged to ongoing (outside of edmondsw)18:51
ayoungbut for most people, I think it is not what they want.18:51
samueldmqdstanek: yes and my point is that having enforcement in 2 places for tbe same thing (roles) will make things harder to customize/debug18:51
lbragstadbut we are sucking a bunch of information that is already defined somewhere into keystone18:51
dstaneksamueldmq: agreed18:52
ayoungsamueldmq, it might be if the operator is using both RBAC and policy. But if they use default policy, and RBAC from middleware, it should be much easier18:52
ayoungpolicy is not easy18:52
lbragstadit might not break backwards compatibility, be we're adopting a lot of information into keystone18:53
ayoungIn essence, you need to run with a debugger to see why something is failing18:53
dstanekayoung: do other cloud providers or commercial systems implement something like this?18:53
ayoungdstanek, kubernetes does18:53
samueldmqayoung: so the goal is to have people putting current policy aside to use that mechanism18:53
ayoungits still alpha there18:53
dstanekrbac and complicated policy?18:53
ayoung samueldmq yes18:53
samueldmqWe should document that we qant that18:53
samueldmqIn the future18:53
ayoungdstanek, p[er "resource" type policy scoped to namespace18:54
samueldmqAnd make sure we have enough deployers agreeing on thay18:54
samueldmqAnd they know the implications of it18:54
lbragstadi think we are trying to solve two problems (per the discussion yesterday) 1.) introduce a read-only role 2.) allow users to have roles to do subsets of things18:54
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samueldmqLike not being able to combine role and scope in a more complicates rule18:54
samueldmqThat's my point18:54
dstanekayoung: maybe i'm dense, but i don't understand what this buys us18:55
ayoungI want to be clear, the keystone team should not say "no" to this without providing a viable alternative proposal.  I've spent, quite literally, years trying to come up with a solution here.  policy.json based approaches were origianlly considerd, vetted, and discarded18:55
ayoungOK,,, what does this buy us....18:55
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lbragstadayoung there is an alternative proposal18:55
ayounglbragstad, not really there isn't.18:55
lbragstadayoung you reviewed it https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427872/1718:55
ayounglbragstad, that is not a real replacement18:56
ayoungthat will break18:56
samueldmqayoung: you like the solution. As do I. But I want to make sure people want it too.18:56
lbragstadhow does ^ not solve the problems you described yesterday?18:56
samueldmqI am more than happy to review18:56
ayounglbragstad, Openstack is more than Nova18:56
lbragstadayoung sure18:56
ayoungNova alone cannot define new roles without providingh a way to prevent those roles from executing operations on other services18:56
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lbragstadayoung i'm positive that's not what nova was trying to do18:57
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ayoungwith that proposal, they would have to modify policy.json on every.single.service18:57
ayoungeven ones they do not know about18:57
samueldmqLooks like we need to look at the spec and add questions there18:57
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samueldmqIt has been merged alteady, correct?18:57
ayounglbragstad, so the goal here is to provide a mechanism that can be added in to the middleware flow, provide decent defaults, and move forward from there18:57
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ayoungat a minimu, we want to knwo that a service that is registered with keystone, that expects a user with the default role (Member) *has* to have that role to perform standard operations18:58
lbragstadbut side-affects of adding this mechanism to middleware doesn't make any sense with upgradeability18:58
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ayoungotherwise, if you go to the nova approach, define a role, say "reader" that can only read Nova resource, it can still write to all resources within that project scope on neutron etc18:58
lbragstadand i would argue that it makes it harder to manage18:58
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lbragstadayoung i think this is something that we'd have to go through as a community together18:59
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knikolla1 minute left warning18:59
ayounglbragstad, the default rule handles upgradeability at least as well as things do today, if not slightly better18:59
ayounglbragstad, and that is why I am bringing it up at the team meeting.18:59
lbragstadayoung no it doesn't beacuse you're not taking into account the default role define at the service18:59
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ayounglbragstad, so knikolla and I will be m,aking a proof of concept of this work prior to the summit, and are talking about tit there19:00
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samueldmqI guess qe gotta continue in -keystone19:00
lbragstadlet's carry this over to -keystone19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  4 19:00:09 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-04-04-18.00.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-04-04-18.00.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-04-04-18.00.log.html19:00
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ayoungsdague, did you catch what I was saying above?19:00
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fungiinfra team, E_THESAURUS_FAILED19:00
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ianwyay meeting, boo daylight savings19:01
zara_the_lemur__hah, it caught me out, too19:01
zara_the_lemur__I was all ready at 7...19:01
jeblairfungi: you can loop around and start over again, but repeat each word.19:01
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fungii'm completely and utterly unprepared today, so let's see just how much i can cover up my ineptitude19:01
* olaph dons pants19:01
fungiolaph: not required for irc19:01
* fungi hopes at least19:02
fungilooks like we have topics proposed by pabelanger and mordred19:02
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fungii may also add a couple if time allows19:02
mordredthat doesn't seem right19:02
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pabelangermordred: it is your patch, I just cc'd you19:02
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mordredoh neat!19:03
fungisurprise witness19:03
mordredthen it seems GREAT!19:03
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* kambiz waves at ianw19:03
fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  4 19:03:35 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
fungi#topic Announcements19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
fungisemi-announcement, i'll be travelling and mostly unavailable next week19:04
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fungipabelanger has graciously volunteered to chair the meeting on the 11th19:04
fungithanks pabelanger!19:04
fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:04
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
fungi#action fungi put forth proposal to flatten git namespaces19:05
fungistill haven't gotten to that19:05
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funginothing else from last week19:05
fungi#topic Specs approval19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
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fungii thought we might have SpamapS's zuul v3 sandboxing approach up in time19:05
fungishould it be a last-minute addition or hold off?19:06
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jeblairit just got another revision, so maybe hold?19:07
fungiokay, fair enough19:07
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
funginothing called out specifically here this week, though i know zaro and clarkb have picked back up steam on the gerrit upgrade stuff19:08
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fungiand zuul v3 and storyboard activity are ongoing and making traction19:09
clarkbyes, I'm tired of restarting Gerrit19:09
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fungiyou and the rest of us ;)19:09
fungi#topic Ipsilon integration for OpenStack ID (pabelanger)19:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Ipsilon integration for OpenStack ID (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:09
fungii guess jeblair may have some input on this one19:10
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pabelangerI keep getting ping from trystack folks wanting to know who they can drop facebook as there auth backend and use the openstack foundation database. As I understand it, we need ipsilon for this19:10
fungiis ipsilon integration preventing trystack.org from switching off facebook group auth?19:10
pabelangermaybe? is there another option for them?19:11
fungiis this oidc feature stuff missing from the current openstackid implementation, or something else?19:11
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kambizwe just need to know what options we have.  old facebook code that doesnt work with newton and ocata.19:11
pabelangerI am not sure honestly, I thought we in -infra wanted to move away from the current openstackid code base, to ipsilon19:12
fungiwell, not all of openstackid, just the openid/oidc provider interface... the backend would presumably remain as it is now19:13
clarkband I think plan was to run them side by side, and as long as they use same backend you should be able to migrate from one to the other trivially19:13
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clarkbat least initially19:13
fungithat's at least how the idp.openstackid.org poc was set up19:13
pabelangerso, I am not sure how to proceed with trystack.org and there openstackid integration. It is something they have been wanting to do for a while19:14
pabelangerI'd like to help, but need some direction19:14
clarkb(migration may involve updating root url of ids in a database like what we did with ubuntu one and gerrit recently)19:14
kambizare there docs available to do auth for an ocata install against idp.openstack.org ?19:14
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fungihave they tried using openstackid.org directly yet?19:14
fungicurious what keystone needs which it isn't providing19:15
kambizalso we need auto-provisioning of tenants / users based on whether they are members of e.g. a trystack group.19:15
mordredkambiz: ah - so you need group membership from the idp?19:15
fungikambiz: at best, there may be documentation for configuring keystone to authenticate via openid in the general sense, and openstackid.org attempts to be a generic openid provider19:15
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kambizmordred: correct.19:15
mordredfungi: I think the gotcha will be openstackid not implementing (to my knowledge) the group-membership extension19:16
clarkbwhy is group membership necessary?19:16
kambizfungi: want to minimize the administration. so basically users with openstackid creds would request access to a "trystack" group, and once they are granted access, when they login to x86.trystack.org they would be directed to the IDP and sent back to trystack (which would also auto provision their tenant / user, but only if they are members of the group19:17
fungigroup-based authorization isn't part of the openid 1.x spec as far as i understand, and is instead openid-connect (oidc) and openid 2.x (which ipsilon supposedly has already and openstackid has been working toward implementing but i don't know whether they finished)19:17
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fungigroup administration would be yet another layer there, it sounds like19:17
notmorganuhm. yeah and is that an issue? wouldn't the group be something that would be added on the SP (service provider/consumer)?19:17
clarkbI've worked around similar by maintaining the group membership on the application side fwiw19:17
kambizclarkb: *shrug* I guess it's not strickly necessary.  Presumably someone with an openstackid account is already interested in openstack, so they get trystack for free. vs. the current setup which is facebook auth and requires membership in a trystack group on facebook.19:18
fungibecause you want some software to provide an interface for some unnamed admins to decide who can be in or out of the authorization group?19:18
notmorganclarkb: that is typically the way it works, the SP is usually responsible19:18
notmorgansince the IDP otherwise might be leaking that data outside to another source (excluding Microsoft ecosystem and ADFS for various reasons)19:18
notmorgani would hesitate to lump that into the IDP itself.19:19
fungiyeah, so trystack would need to grow a group authorization management interface19:19
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notmorganfungi: depending on what trystack does, it may have that alread, not sure if it's just keystone undewr the hood or something else19:19
fungithis is where my lack of understanding of keystone options rules me out of making good suggestions19:20
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notmorganit might require a *very* new keystone. but it should work. (new as in Ocata or post Ocata)19:20
notmorganlbragstad: ^ cc for federated identity tech stuff.19:20
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fungii think ultimately the desire is to allow people with an openstack foundation account (e.g. via openstackid.org openid login) to use per-account tenants autoprovisioned in trystack, which is a bog-standard rdo deployment?19:21
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kambizfungi: gonna paste link to the auth stuff we added to liberty release.19:21
kambiz(looking for it)19:21
kambizit's keystone insofar that once the user is authed, the user and tenant are created (with a dummy/random password)19:22
kambizusers can then download the keystonerc_<user> from horizon and never look back to the facebook auth stuff.19:22
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kambiz(so they can run openstack cli commands)19:22
wfosterfungi: that seems about right, more or less.19:23
fungiokay, so really the openid auth is just needed far enough to get an api access account created and then they use the autogenerated keystone credentials moving forward?19:23
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funginot actually doing keystone federation to an openid provider?19:23
fungior is the desire to move from the former to the latter?19:24
kambizfungi: yes, and just generally a replacement for facebook, and to use an IDP with a deployment in a manner that is prescribed / has wider adoption.19:24
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kambizbasically, is anyone doing federated authn/authz with auto-provisioning of tenants/users?19:24
fungiokay, and so with facebook you got a group administrator role who could add/remove accounts in some group?19:24
kambizfungi: yep.  users ask to join, and we take a quick 5 second glance at the request, and make a judgement call that they are real humans, and not spammers./19:25
fungiwell, ids rather than accounts from trystack's perspective19:25
wfostertrystack needs an oath or similiar identity provider to plug into keystone to auto create accounts after they've been approved, I think we'd defer to people just having an openstack.org account (or LP and signing the CLA?) so long as we have ability of revocation for abuse scenarios, the facebook auth piece just fits in so we can somewhat determine its indeed a human and we get out of business of19:25
wfostermanually manauging accounts (even with tools its not scalable).19:25
kambizand once we allow them into the group, they get access to trystack.19:25
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fungicontributor license agreement sounds completely out of scope for using trystack, fwiw19:26
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fungibut anyway, i don't know that with either the current openstackid codebase nor switching to an externally (from trystack's perspective) managed ipsilon instance gets you any sort of group management interface19:27
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fungiit's possible the foundation site maintainers would be able to delegate access to the group management interface they use for www.openstack.org properties, but i also don't know how hierarchical that interface is19:28
notmorganfungi: CLA seems a bit heavy handed to require (so ++)19:28
fungias notmorgan and clarkb pointed out, you can always do group management on the trystack side of things19:28
notmorganand i highly recommend that model if possible19:29
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notmorganit doesnt rely on the IDP to grow smarts or have someone manage internally19:29
jeblairi keep seeing suggestions that maybe just having a foundation membership account is sufficient.  if we can agree that's the case, then it doesn't seem like there should be any obstacles.19:29
wfosterthat would be ideal, using delegated group mgmt from openstack.org - we had looked at freeipa for this but i dont think it's ready with the self-service options currently e.g. http://www.freeipa.org/page/V4/Community_Portal#Self-Service_Registration.19:29
fungifrom something as basic as am htpasswd callout to a list of openid urls to as featureful as a custom-written web management interface or some off-the-shelf groupware19:29
wfostersomehwere mod_auth_idc fits in, that's where my understanding of ocata/keystone fall short here.19:30
fungiyeah, if just having an openstackid.org id is sufficient, then sounds like it might just work already?19:30
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wfosterour main thing is to just be sure it's indeed a human and to make sure we can take action in abuse scenarios if needed.  it seems having an openstack.org id would be enough in my opinion, do you concur kambiz?19:31
fungiclarkb: was mod_auth_openid the one you used in your etherpad authentication experiments?19:31
clarkbfungi: yes, its not perfect but mostly worked19:31
fungiso not mod_auth_idc19:31
clarkbsome of the issues were on openstackid's side of not exactly following the spec and otehrs are bugs in mod auth openid19:32
fungibut you managed (after some fixes) to get apache mod_auth_openid working with current openstackid.org19:32
clarkbthe issues on openstackid side got fixed19:32
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kambizwfoster: *nod* that's what I said earlier as well, to clarkb's point19:32
kambizjust not sure of mod_auth_openid is enough, since from what pabelanger and ayoung have mentioned in the past, there is no auto-provisioning of the tenant/user19:33
fungiokay, so seems to me it's worth testing now to just authenticate against openstackid.org without any group membership requirements and see if it works19:33
fungiwhichever module you use at the client side19:33
fungii mainly wanted to make sure this isn't blocked on a production rollout of ipsilon (unless it comes with a set of developers eager to hack on getting that going infra-side)19:34
pabelangerya, I wasn't 100% sure of that either19:35
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fungibecause movement there has been slow, so we'd either need more people dedicated to working on that or alternatives which can be used in the interim19:35
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fungiokay, any objections to testing using trystack.org with openstackid.org as described above, and then circling back around if there are issues identified?19:36
pabelangerI'm happy people talked19:37
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* wfoster hands pabelanger a food truck coupon19:37
fungithe openstackid.org devs are generally attentive and willing to fix implementation bugs when identified19:37
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fungithough at this particular moment they're busy flinging load tests at the openstackid-dev server i think19:38
ayoung mod_auth_ is not enough for provisioning.  Provisioning is outside the auth standards19:38
fungi#agreed The trystack.org maintainers should test integration with current https://openstackid.org/ openid implementation (without oidc group membership lookups), and identify any shortcomings19:39
fungi^ that cover it for now?19:40
fungiayoung: thanks, and yes i'm guessing you need some automation for keystone account/tenant autoprovisioning regardless?19:40
fungiayoung: or is that a keystone feature?19:40
clarkbright it doesn't sounds like using ipsilon or openstackid or any other openid backend is going to change that19:40
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clarkbsomething needs to do it and those tools don't solve that problem19:41
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fungipresumably something is already doing it for people logging in via facebook19:41
fungiso i would guess that automation remains mostly the same anyway19:41
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fungiokay, 18 minutes remaining, so moving on19:42
wfosterkambiz: fungi that sounds great to me, thank you.  we'll also work on patching the fb auth bits in the meantime until we can cutover.  we have a parallel newton we can upgrade to ocata to start testing openstackid.  who should we ping about implementation questions after we've read up?19:42
fungiwfoster: us but also smarcet and jpmaxman in #openstack-infra are the main openstackid maintainers19:42
fungi#topic Stop enabling EPEL mirror by default (pabelanger/mordred)19:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Stop enabling EPEL mirror by default (pabelanger/mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:42
pabelangermordred proposed 453222 today, and would like to see if anybody objects. If not, I can help keep an eye on jobs failures for EPEL dependencies.19:42
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pabelangertoday both puppet and tripleo have moved away from EPEL, since it was unstable and often broke19:43
fungiopposite of objecting, i'm wholeheartedly in favor19:43
clarkbsomeone should check if devstack needs it for anything19:43
* mordred is in favor of it19:43
clarkbianw: ^ do you know?19:43
mnaserjust an fyi, kolla depends on it19:43
mordredclarkb: we'll find that out very quickly :)19:43
mnaserso we'll have to check19:43
* fungi realizes it's not a given that mordred is necessarily always in favor of changes he proposes19:44
jpmaxmanHappy to help wfoster tied up in a meeting but feel free to reach out19:44
ianwi don't believe so19:44
mordredmnaser: I believe kfox111 said he had a patch queued up for kolla-k8s19:44
pabelangermnaser:  sudo yum-config-manager --enable epel19:44
pabelangeris how to enable it19:44
mordredfungi: I am happy to propose the patch so it can be debated - but in this case, I also like it19:44
mnaserthis was just gate code to use the mirrors19:44
mnaserso we'll just have to drop the mirrors ill double check this kolla site19:44
pabelangerwe'll keep mirroring EPEL, but this means jobs now opt-in19:44
pabelangerand understand, it might not be the most stable19:45
fungialso the enablement command should be idempotent, so you could start running it before we drop the default configuration presumably19:45
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mordredwell - so mnaser/kolla have to do their own config since it's being done during container build in the containers19:45
mnaserwe already do yum install epel-release in kolla19:45
pabelangerokay, good! This is something I've hope to do for a long time :)19:45
mnaserbut it just seds things around in the gate to point towards mirror19:45
mordredwhich means nothing should change for that koll ajob19:45
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mordredthis is only about the epel rpeo being enabled on the vm itself19:46
ianwon CI images, epel-release should already be installed19:46
pabelangerfungi: I'm happy to leave it with your to approve when you think we are ready19:46
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mordredianw: yes. but not inside of containers being built on CI images19:46
mnaserinside the docker images, we do yum install epel-release, but we also do a sed in there to point towards mirrors, which means if the epel mirrors stop the builds will fail (unless im missing something obvious *shrug*19:46
mordredmnaser: yah - we're not stopping the mirrors19:47
mordredmnaser: we're only stopping from enabling them by default in the CI images19:47
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mnasergotcha now19:47
fungisounds like kolla wasn't relying on that part regardless19:47
mordredwe should likely be extra clear with folks on this point :)19:47
mnasernope it wasn't19:47
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pabelangerI think puppet and tripleo were the biggest, and they were not affect with todays outage19:48
fungiokay, sounds safe to roll forward in that case19:48
fungii guess let's give the ml thread a little more time to collect feedback unless this is urgent enough we need to move forward asap19:48
fungibut i don't see any obvious blockers19:49
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fungimainly want to make sure nobody can say they were paying attention to the ml but were caught by surprise that we changed this19:49
fungior weren't given time to add that command to their jobs19:49
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fungianything else on this? otherwise i can try to cram in a last-minute topic or two19:50
pabelangernone, thank you19:50
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fungi#topic Mailman 2.1.16 fork or Xenial upgrade soon?19:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Mailman 2.1.16 fork or Xenial upgrade soon? (Meeting topic: infra)"19:51
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fungii think jeblair asked this over the weekend19:51
clarkbI think we should xenial soon. Upgrade is fresh and process should be very similar19:52
fungiapparently there's some content encoding nastyness in the trusty mailman packages, fixed subsequentlt upstream and never backported19:52
jeblairthere was talk about looking into whether a backport was feasible (it's a one line patch).  i don't know if anyone has done that.19:52
jeblairbut yeah, a further upgrade seems doable.19:52
pabelangerI can look into the backport, if we want to stay. But also happy to xenial19:52
fungithe version in xenial is apparently new enough not to suffer, but of course comes with its own new and as of yet unidentified bugs most likely ;)19:52
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fungiso sort of a roll of the dice, but on the other hand we'll need to upgrade it to xenial (or something else) eventually too19:53
fungii'm leaning toward going ahead and doing a second upgrade maintenance, but i don't have time to drive it so would need a volunteer regardless19:54
pabelangerwe know a few ubuntu packagers, we should atleast see if we can get the patches into -updates19:54
fungiand i'll admit if ubuntu can sru that patch into trusty-updates, that's a lot less work for us19:54
jeblairi'd prefer not to have to upgrade until after the summit.19:55
fungiplus, that benefits people running trusty mailman packages besides us19:55
fungiyeah, we're definitely getting close to the summit now19:55
pabelangerI'll get an SRU request in place19:55
fungipabelanger: great, thanks!19:55
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clarkbya, I'm just rarely hopeful those go through quickly (considering the python3 experience on a current LTS)19:55
fungijeblair: have a link to the defect report or upstream patch?19:55
fungiwell, mailman is much more of a "leaf" package than an interpreter would be19:56
fungia lot fewer reverse-depends to consider19:56
jeblairfungi: i'll look it up19:57
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jeblair#link mailman bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/125149519:57
openstackLaunchpad bug 1251495 in mailman (Ubuntu Trusty) "Lists with topics enabled can throw unexpected keyword argument 'Delete' exception." [High,Triaged]19:57
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fungi#action pabelanger Open an Ubuntu SRU for bug 125149519:58
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fungishould just be able to add the ubuntu package as an affected project on that mailman bug and go from there19:58
fungi#topic Open discussion19:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:59
fungione minute remaining19:59
* cmurphy plugs topic:unpuppet-zuul-workers19:59
jeblairi will be unavailable next week19:59
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fungii was going to also try and work in a topic for requested repo renaming maintenance scheduling19:59
fungijeblair: me too!19:59
mtreinish#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open++topic:more-firehose19:59
jeblairfungi: see you there!  ;)19:59
fungisounds like it'll be a (quiet|busy) week for infra19:59
fungioh, and we're out of time20:00
fungithanks all!20:00
fungitc meeting, up next. stay tuned!20:00
mtreinishalso if an infra-root is available to help me push things into prod this week, that'd be nice :)20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  4 20:00:19 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-04-04-19.03.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-04-04-19.03.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-04-04-19.03.log.html20:00
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* fungi is still here, i think20:00
ttxWho's here for the TC meeting ?20:00
* edleafe watches from the balcony20:01
ttxdhellmann, dims, mordred, thingee: around ?20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  4 20:01:17 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
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ttxHi everyone!20:01
ttxThanks EmilienM for chairing last week20:01
ttxAlthough my plan to skip the meetign failed completely20:01
* Rockyg is snuffling and sneezing as far away from everyone else as possible20:01
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* ttx blames DST20:01
EmilienMttx: my pleasure. I can do it anytime again20:01
ttxOur agenda for today is at:20:02
* flaper87 blames ttx20:02
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:02
ttx#topic Renew & add Zanata dev members as extra ATC20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Renew & add Zanata dev members as extra ATC (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/45162520:02
ttxI had trouble matching some of those to active Foundation memberships20:02
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ttxIs it OK if I approve this as soon as I get the confirmation of active membership ?20:02
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dims+1 ttx20:03
ttxWill be tight to include them to the TC election20:03
mtreinishttx: ++, I'm fine with it once you sort that out20:03
fungiyeah, i think we've generally fast-tracked extra-atcs changes as long as the ptl votes in favor20:03
ttx#agreed OK to approve once we clear out the question of active Foundation membership20:03
ttx#topic Clarify project addition process20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Clarify project addition process (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/45207320:03
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ttxThe idea here is to make the process slightly more discoverable20:04
ttxand encourage projects to engage early on with the Technical Committee on the question of scope match20:04
ttxI did fix the comments that were posted20:04
ttxLooks like we have quorum20:04
fungii like the word "adequation"20:04
ttxIt's a pretty common French word, but I checked that it existed in English before using it :)20:04
ttxAlright, approved, thanks!20:05
ttx#topic Propose the addition of an assert:maintenance-mode20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Propose the addition of an assert:maintenance-mode (Meeting topic: tc)"20:05
ttxamrith: around ?20:05
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/44992520:05
* ttx reads recent comments20:05
amrithsorry, I was multitasking, let me shut down other tasks20:06
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dhellmannI made the same assumption dtroyer did about the purpose of this tag as an indication that a project is not necessarily healthy20:06
ttxmtreinish: to answer your question, I think it's OK for a project with an otherwise-active team to declare a specific deliverable in maintenance-only mode20:06
amrithdhellmann, that isn't the only situation where this would happen20:06
amrithand I expect that there are times, and I certainly see this with trove moving forward where a specific deliverable may become maintenance mode20:07
mtreinishttx: sure, but I think maintenance mode means something different to me then the core team is AWOL20:07
dtroyerI think the distinction between 'entire project' and 'deliverable' is important here20:07
mtreinishwhich is what the tag is written as20:07
amrithone of the things I want to do with trove is to split the deliverables to make the project more modular20:07
dhellmannwell, we have lots of deliverables that don't see many changes but that are actively maintained. I'm not sure we would want to apply this to them except as an indication of a possible problem.20:07
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amrithcurrently we have all databases in a single deliverable, trove20:07
flaper87dtroyer: 'entire project' is the team20:07
amrithI'd like to split that and make it per deliverable database20:08
ttxdhellmann: you mean, there is no value in describing a project that is in maintenance-mode ?20:08
johnthetubaguydtroyer: this does feel a bit per deliverable20:08
dtroyerflaper87: it is also the set of all fo the deliverables, which is not people20:08
dimsshould be able to do either at the project or deliverable level20:08
dhellmannttx: the only reason I could see to declare that is if we think that state is either good or bad. Otherwise, it's just normal, right?20:08
amrithdhellmann, ttx, I have removed the project wide maintenance mode notion20:08
ttxIt feels like communicating to users that a project will not grow new features at the moment, is a useful thing to communicate20:08
thingeedims: ++20:08
ttxamrith: good20:08
dimsthis is a signal to outside world to set expectations20:09
flaper87dtroyer: I meant to say that project team covers that, people and set of deliverables.20:09
dtroyeramrith: ++  although there may be a shred or two of that still present20:09
flaper87ttx: ++20:09
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ttxdims: I'd rather keep tags applied at team OR deliverable level, not AND20:09
dhellmannok, I guess I can see that. The oslo libraries we have that might otherwise fit this description aren't being prevented from having new features, they're just sort of done.20:09
amriththe ONLY thing that can have maintenance mode is a deliverable. now, if you set all deliverables to maintenance mode, you are signaling something is not good with the project.20:09
mriedemif i applied this to the sqlalchemy-migrate library, can i stop getting a bunch of random useless pep8 and typo fix patches?20:09
sdagueso, while it was removed, just for the record I'd be fine with project wide maintenance mode tag20:09
dimsttx : yep, OR is good20:09
sdaguemriedem: I thought we -2ed most of those :)20:09
amrithsdague, YES20:09
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mtreinishmriedem: heh, isn't that maintenance?20:10
amrithI am hoping that with this, I can get some of that.20:10
dhellmannmriedem : we should definitely apply this tag to sqlalchemy-migrate20:10
ttxmtreinish: yes20:10
sdaguedhellmann: ++20:10
dims++ mriedem20:10
* amrith steps back and lets the tc deliberate :)20:10
mriedemyou know the patches will continue to come,20:10
ttxThe idea of the tag is to communicate the effect to the user20:10
mriedembecause no one will read the tag first20:10
flaper87I think this tag makes sense, FWIW. I like what it communicates and how it communicates it20:10
ttxnot to make a statement on the team state20:10
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dimsmriedem : we are not going to stop people from posting patches20:11
amrithflaper87, ++ I agree, a well written proposal20:11
thingeettx: seems like a side effect20:11
flaper87amrith: rofl20:11
ttx*if* a team is so abandoned that it can't do basic maintenance, then yes it should die20:11
dhellmannamrith, ttx: the use of the term "transient period of low activity" makes me think you believe this would be a temporary situation for a deliverable20:11
fungiwe've sort of got the same situation with a number of infra deliverables, where we really don't want to add new features/complexity to them but contributors seem to take that message as a hostile rejection of their right to innovate20:11
thingeefor some teams that don't have much deliverables20:11
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ttxdhellmann: I think the idea there was to say that it's something you could recovber from. I agree it's slightly unlikely though20:11
amrithdhellmann, yes. transient is the operative word20:12
flaper87dhellmann: that's how I read it, yep.20:12
sdaguedims: well, we could always have maintenance bot which replies "this project is in maintenance mode, most patches won't be accepted." just so that there is some feedback to contributors that don't realize20:12
dimsttx : +1 to basic maint else die20:12
dimssdague : true20:12
dhellmannamrith, ttx: I'm reading your responses to my question as not being aligned.20:12
* ttx reads latest patchset20:12
amrithdims, ++20:12
dhellmannwell, I guess you are.20:12
amrithdhellmann, let's look at them specifically20:12
amrithI think we are20:12
dhellmannit seems like we're talking about 2 slightly different things20:12
ttxdhellmann: I'm fine withthe wording, but could support its removal :)20:12
amrithbut if I'm conveying the idea that I'm not, let's clarify20:12
dhellmanneither the team is moribund or the deliverable is "done"20:12
dhellmannhaving a "done" deliverable, as unlikely as that seems, is a good thing20:13
dhellmannhaving a moribund team is less good20:13
mtreinishdhellmann: that's the distinction I was tring to get at before20:13
amrithdhellmann, there are two use cases; yes.20:13
ttxdhellmann: is there value in discerning between the two cases, from a user perspective ?20:13
mtreinishand the way the proposal is written is more for the former20:13
ttxmtreinish: the intent was to keep it positive20:13
dhellmannso if we're going to say "this project is not receiving new features" then let's focus on that, rather than all of the "not guaranteeing to be responsive with feature reviews" phrasing20:13
amrithin the short term, I would like to mark all trove deliverables to be maintenance mode; that use-case is the indication that the project is in a 'not good' state.20:13
jrollwe've talked about bugfix/stability cycles, too, that seems like it could apply here (but not sure it would be a useful way to communicate that)20:13
sdaguepersonally, it feels like maintenance mode is very in line with graceful step down. It is signaling honestly that some bit of things has wound down. That can be data for people that care to step up, or for people that deploy things that are concerned about features to consider what they are going to do next.20:13
amrithbut I believe that this is transient20:13
flaper87ttx: I think there is. If the team is moribund then all its deliverables might be affected20:13
amriththere are things I'm working on to get us to a better state.20:14
amrithbut once we remove the tag on all deliverables, I would like to split the project20:14
dhellmannsdague : that's what I thought, but I don't think that's what amrith and ttx actually mean20:14
amrithinto multiple deliverables, like trove-mysql, trove-mariadb, trove-mongodb, ... and so on20:14
sdaguedhellmann: ok, I could be misreading and putting a lot of my expectations in there20:14
amrithif that happens, different 'drivers' could be in different states of done'ness20:14
dhellmannsdague : my expectations aligned with yours, which is why I'm trying to clarify20:14
sdagueamrith: I get, in the trove case would it make more sense to just deprecate a bunch of those dbs20:14
sdagues/I get/I guess/20:15
amrithsdague, i don't think so20:15
amrithconsider this20:15
amrithin mysql there are two kinds of replication20:15
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amrithbinlog and guid20:15
ttxI guess the question is whether we want to conflate things that are maintenance-only because they are done, with things that are maintenance-only because their team is in low-activity mode20:15
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ttxThe tag conflates the two cases20:15
dhellmannttx: I don't think we do20:15
amrithif I went to the place I want to, I'd have trove-mysql-binlog-replication as a deliverable (not the best name)20:15
dhellmannI think "low activity team" is another tag20:15
dtroyerttx: do we need status:done or status:mostly-done?20:15
flaper87ttx: team status should be specified at a team level, I think20:16
amrithand I could mark that in maintenance while -guid would remain active20:16
amrithsdague ^^20:16
dhellmannI'm not sure what the trove case is, but I think it's "low activity team"20:16
dhellmannflaper87 : ++20:16
amrithdhellmann, yes. now it is, to paraphrase someone, a 'low energy team'20:16
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ttxflaper87: why ? Corner case a moribund team would place most of its deliverable in maintenance mode to focus on one20:16
dimsdhellmann : they way i saw it, if it was set a deliverable level then that thing is in maintenance, if applied at project level then team is going away20:16
amrithhopefully soon, the project would go to a different place where the current unwieldy deliverable is replaced my many deliverables20:17
amrithand individual deliverables could be pushed to maintenance mode20:17
dhellmannamrith : I don't know how valuable it is to say that driver X is only being maintained and not seeing new features. I do see it as valuable for a whole project, or for a team.20:17
fungior at best the team is in stasis with a hope of eventual recovery20:17
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amrithdhellmann, the latter (whole project or team) is the current use case20:17
amrithso let's focus on that one for now20:17
Rockygrather than status done, how about complete?  it has all the features that it's going to have. Any changes are bugfixes now.20:17
dhellmanndims : yeah, we want to describe those cases separately, though, and it's easier to think of tags as having one scope or another20:17
flaper87it's not the same. As unlike as it may sound a team that used to have drivers might merge everything into a single repo and mark the drivers as maintenance mode20:17
ttxfwiw I'm not attached to the current (conflating) version, just trying to explain why it ended up in that place, since I reviewed an early draft and influenced it :)20:17
cdentI think the ambiguity between a project being done and a project (or deliverable) being unattended  is bad here. Because "being done" should be considered not just a good thing, but a goal.20:17
amrithit is the stated intent to mark all of trove's deliverables as maintenance mode right now20:17
johnthetubaguyis "no-new-features-now" the flag we want here? there do seem to be lots of overlapping things here.20:18
dimsdon't want too many tags either...20:18
flaper87probably not the best example (ttx see my prev message)20:18
dhellmanncdent : ++20:18
johnthetubaguycdent: I am leaning in your direction here20:18
amrithOK, all, could we assert that for the purposes of this tag, we only discuss the 'team is low energy for now' use case20:18
amrithand ignore the per-deliverable maintenance mode?20:18
dhellmannamrith, ttx: I feel like the case we have right now is not well covered by this tag because of the conflation. Do you want to modify the definition to focus on the team aspect?20:18
jrollcdent: agree. I can't decide if "maintenance mode" here means "slow" or "unattended". the latter implies a lack of maintenance.20:18
ttxOK, so it sounds like we should rewrite this in a way that makes it more of a team tag, like team:low-activity20:19
cdentamrith: in that case maintenance is the wrong word20:19
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dhellmannamrith : make a team:low-activity tag20:19
dtroyeramrith: I think we should look at those as separate things (team vs deliverable)20:19
ttxbasically describe minimal activity levels before removal20:19
dimsdesignate would qualify as well20:19
amrithcdent, I'm happy to pick another word. and make a team flag20:19
amrithhappy to leave name choice out for now20:19
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ttxamrith: sounds like that's where the majority lies20:19
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amrithand focus on the theme cdent dhellmann20:19
amriththe proposal is to come up with20:19
EmilienMttx: would this tag considered an official step before retiring a project?20:19
amrith(a) a team tag20:19
ttxEmilienM: no20:20
amrith(b) indicates that the team is in a low energy mode20:20
amrith(c) is expected to be transient20:20
amrithEmilienM, or reviving the project20:20
dimswhy (c)?20:20
jrollamrith: s/expected/hoped/? :)20:20
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mriedemttx: why not?20:20
ttxEmilienM: I think it's good to say that the minimal activity requires releases, security bugs watch etc20:20
amrithdims, the idea is that this is transient20:20
* flaper87 things there's room for both a team level and a deliverable level tag20:20
dhellmannamrith : and then this would be a tag a team asserts about itself or the TC attaches to a team if the team fails to participate over the course of a cycle (I don't know where the minimum bar would be, but 0 releases should be in there somewhere)20:20
EmilienMttx: I agree with that statement20:20
ttxEmilienM, mriedem: some projects will just go directly to sub-minimal20:20
dims(c) will imply someone will have to curate the tag periodically20:20
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amrithdhellmann, Yes20:20
dhellmannamrith : I wouldn't focus on the transient aspect. We're all just dust in the wind, after all.20:21
Rockyg++ flaper8720:21
ttxLike if a project doesn't do releases at all, it should not get the tag20:21
dimsdhellmann : ++20:21
mriedemif activity is low enough that you can't even land the security fixes through the gate, then it's time to retire...20:21
amrithdhellmann, ok. with that, the proposal would be (a) and (b) stated above20:21
dimsttx : ++20:21
flaper87ttx: mriedem EmilienM and there's also the project team and deliverable distinction, which is important20:21
amrithwith the prerequisites as stated in the proposal20:21
dhellmannttx: if they do no releases they should *not* get the tag?20:21
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amrithdhellmann, they WILL do releases20:21
dimsshould get the low tag :)20:21
amriththat is a stated expectation20:22
jrollttx: +120:22
fungiseems like there's a bit of subjective fuzzyness regardless. i expect most teams have more work to do than they can reasonably expect to get through and leave some on the floor20:22
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ttxdhellmann: the tag basically describes the minimal activity level20:22
amrithdhellmann, see line 6520:22
dhellmannttx: so in that case all teams will have it, because they're doing the minimal amount of work?20:22
Rockygseparate the deliverable tag from this proposal.  Keep this just team20:22
ttxminimal acceptable activity level includes doing releases20:22
dhellmannor at least the minimum20:22
ttxdhellmann: it also describves a list of things that those teams will not commit to do20:23
johnthetubaguybut if there are no patches? we still need the release to bump requirements?20:23
dhellmannI think we want this to work like the single-vendor flag. If you fall below a threshold, you get the tag.20:23
fungiyeah, no point in fixing security vulnerabilities if you don't make releases to include/distribute them20:23
jrolldhellmann: there's three levels, AIUI: 1) active, no tag; 2) low activity, does bare minimum, yes tag; 3) no activity, no tag, pls retire20:23
dtroyerdhellmann: that's how I read it20:23
ttxdhellmann: right. It describes that threashold, but also the threshold under which you should not fall20:23
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ttxlest you shalt be removed20:23
dhellmannjroll : if a team is so low activity to not even apply for the tag or do a release, I think we would just retire it, no?20:23
amrithmaybe one thing to do is to have a couple of passes at defining a metric which we can assess programmatically like the single vendor tag. I'll take the action item to do that if y'all would like20:23
dhellmannttx: ok, the threshold to stay official should be documented separately20:24
jrolldhellmann: yes20:24
ttxOK, looks like amrith has the feedback he needs now20:24
sdagueamrith: honestly, a metric seems less useful here than the team itself asserting it20:24
amrithttx, yes I do20:24
sdagueI wouldn't want to figure out a crazy metric20:24
dhellmannsdague : I think I agree with that.20:24
ttxdhellmann: probably yes20:24
dimsam with sdague, wanted teams to self-apply20:24
jrollsdague: ++20:24
flaper87sdague: ++20:24
amrithso, this may be premature, but I'm hoping that by the end of the week I can tell you that trove won't need the tag after all. but no promises on that.20:24
dimsdon't want to broker or judge or check periodically20:24
ttxsdague: dhellmann said that it should not be an assert, as those are desirable behavior. I kinda agree20:25
dimsamrith ++20:25
ttxBut can be self-influcted team tag in 99% of the cases20:25
jrollI think the TC may need to encourage teams to take the tag now and then, though20:25
ttxOK, I think we can move on20:25
dimsjroll : that's fair20:25
EmilienMamrith: we look forward to know20:25
dhellmannttx, sdague : let's call this team:low-activity and let teams add it themselves or have the TC add it based on subjective judgement20:25
ttxdhellmann: ++20:25
amrithEmilienM, you and me both :)20:25
johnthetubaguywell if the teams not doing anything, will the remember about the tag? I guess thats what jroll said20:26
fungii think if the tc needs to apply the tag, it's something worse than warrants that tag20:26
ttxI think it's a great tool to signal teams taht are struggling and need help20:26
jrolljohnthetubaguy: right :)20:26
EmilienMamrith: what is the key factor here?20:26
dimsjohnthetubaguy : its a bat signal for, we need help here too right?20:26
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : right, if a team is so inactive as to not even think about this tag, it's probably on its way to being moribund enough that we would just retire it20:26
dimsah ttx beat me to it20:26
johnthetubaguydhellmann: possibly yeah20:26
mriedemfwiw i'm in an active team and never think about our tag status20:26
amrithEmilienM, I don't follow your question20:26
jrollI don't think teams often think about tags20:26
jrollmriedem: ++20:26
fungittx: dims: if there are bat signals for that, let me know. infra could use a few ;)20:26
mriedemb/c there are so many tags and i'm separated from them20:26
EmilienMamrith: what happens this week? I might have missed something20:26
ttxAlright, let's move on20:26
dims:) fungi20:27
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ttxamrith has everything he needs for next rev20:27
dimsmriedem : yep20:27
amrithEmilienM, time is up, ttx says move along :)20:27
EmilienMamrith: well done ;-)20:27
amriththanks all, I have the feedback I need for now20:27
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ttxThanks for pushing this amrith20:27
ttx#topic Use case analysis for Golang addition to Openstack20:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Use case analysis for Golang addition to Openstack (Meeting topic: tc)"20:27
amrithbut if things don't work, I'll blame dims20:27
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/45152420:27
* dims bows20:28
ttxis thiago here ?20:28
ttxtdasilva: oh, hi!20:28
flaper87tdasilva: notmyname yo yo!20:28
tdasilvattx: o/20:28
ttxLooks like exactly what I had in mind for a "Step 1"20:28
dhellmannthis is a nice write up, thanks for putting it together20:28
ttxbut then I didn't write /that/ process20:28
* flaper87 is happy to see this moving forward20:28
tdasilvadhellmann: thanks20:28
ttxThat was flaper87's20:28
* flaper87 looks around20:28
ttxAny last-minute question before I approve ?20:29
tdasilvanot from me, thanks everyone for reviewing20:29
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* flaper87 was about to make a terrible joke... holding back20:29
ttxalright then20:29
flaper87no questions20:29
fungilast-minute +1 from me. looks great20:29
jrollflaper87: meetings are prime for terrible jokes20:30
thingeeamazing ps1 merge20:30
jrollthis is a great write-up, thanks tdasilva :)20:30
flaper87jroll: :P20:30
ttxflaper87, dims: Now it's approved, does that mean we need to start working / finalize the work on step 2 now ?20:30
thingeeachievement unlocked20:30
ttxAs a reminder, step 2 means setting up the CI pipelines, define how the deliverables are distributed, how dependencies will be managed...20:30
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ttxDefine how stable maint, i18n & docs will work, define a way to share code/libraries, and guarantee compatible functionality for the base common libraries.20:30
dimsttx : yes, i'd like to see some work on the common libraries etc20:30
flaper87yes, it means all that needs to happen :)20:30
EmilienMflaper87: can you pm the private joke?20:30
ttxFeels like we already started that20:30
dtroyerttx: we have20:30
dtroyersome of it at least20:31
fungiare there any ci jobs building/testing gocode yet?20:31
dimsttx : we have brought up a lot of infrastructure already. but a lot more work needs to be done20:31
dimsfungi : yep20:31
flaper87I'm happy to help and follow-up on the process aspects of this work20:31
dtroyerfungi: golang-client has a small unit test job20:31
flaper87if there are questions about the expectations, do let me know20:31
fungione small step for golang-client, one giant leap for the ecosystem20:32
flaper87tdasilva: and myself had a convo about this at the PTG, tho20:32
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ttxflaper87: cool, just want to make sure we cross all the T's based on your process description20:32
dimsfungi : i was just poking at devstack+k8s+k8s-e2e tests (http://logs.openstack.org/53/453253/2/check/gate-k8s-cloud-provider-golang-dsvm-conformance-ubuntu-xenial/80726c8/console.html)20:32
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dtroyerthe dependency mirroring bits for CI are going to take some work20:32
ttxalright, anything else to discuss on this topic ?20:32
tdasilvain terms of CI jobs I noticed a jenkins job for golang, but not sure where that is being used yet20:33
dimstdasilva : can i expect swift team to help with the golang commons library?20:33
fungidtroyer: consider retrieving deps through our caching proxy as an alternative maybe?20:33
dimstdasilva : y, ping me later on openstack-golang, and will walk you through what is there20:33
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ttxI'd rather say "members of the Swift team", don't think everyone needs to jump in20:33
tdasilvadims: sounds good20:33
dims++ ttx20:33
dtroyerfungi: expect questions tomorrow20:34
fungidtroyer: though could get similarly complex since it sounds like there's no central host for go deps20:34
ttxyes the dep situation still needs to be clarified a bit20:34
ttxFrom a release management perspective, the fallback will be to publish signed tarballs, but ideally we'd like to support whatever makes the most sense in this world20:35
ttxwhich is *not* signed source code tarballs apparently :)20:35
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mtreinishttx: heh20:35
dtroyerttx: the biggest thing I'm worried about for releases are the genrated files and how to include those20:35
mordreddtroyer: I gave in an committed them to the repo in oaktree20:35
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mordreddtroyer: I still feel dirty and wrong - but it's how go works20:36
ttxmordred: boo20:36
dhellmannfungi, dtroyer : I wonder if we can learn anything about mirroring build dependencies from some of the distros. I know RH doesn't like to have a build depend on outside servers, either.20:36
fungithe gocosystem seems perfectly happy with git tags (or even just random git commit shas from arbitrary foks on github at times?) sounds like20:36
mordredttx: there is literally no other choice when the consumptoin model is only via git20:36
ttxmordred: what's next. Jars deployed with maven ?20:36
dimsttx : so question for you, what's the next check point before we allow an official release of a go based deliverable?20:36
dtroyerthat's where tools like glide are helpful, as an indirection step to setting up the GOPATH dirs20:36
ttxAll my certainties are gone20:36
mordredttx: :)20:37
mordreddtroyer: this is true - although once you get in to things like generating protobuf code from .proto files ...20:37
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* flaper87 looks at ttx and mordred suspiciously20:37
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ttxdims: I think we can add stuff in now, as long as the step 2 work is in progress and we are pretty confident the work will be completed20:37
dhellmannttx: time is circular20:37
ttxBut then flaper87 designed that process20:37
dimsack ttx20:38
ttxso I'm happy to defer to him on when time is right20:38
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ttxOK, let's move on20:38
flaper87dims: As far as release go, the step 2 should be completed20:38
flaper87but that doesn't prevent projects from being created20:38
dimsflaper87 : ack on that20:38
ttxLike I said, for release management we have a fallback20:38
ttxand we can incrementally improve from there20:39
ttxfor dependency management, not sure we have such a fallback20:39
* flaper87 wonders if ttx is trying to hack "The Process"20:39
ttxIt's more just a fall20:39
ttxToday is pun day20:39
ttxOK, moving on!20:40
ttx#topic Add a "docs:install-guide-verified" tag20:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Add a "docs:install-guide-verified" tag (Meeting topic: tc)"20:40
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/44553620:40
ttxdhellmann: you sent an email to ask that we table this until you have a chance to work out the next draft with Alexandra ?20:40
dhellmannasettle and I are working on a new draft of this20:40
dhellmannyeah, I think we'll have something next week20:40
ttxok, so maybe useless to talk about it now20:40
dhellmannyeah, let's skip it for now20:40
ttxHave several topics for open discussion, so ok to skip20:40
ttx#topic Open discussion20:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:41
ttxI had a few topics to cover20:41
ttx* Centrally documenting API versions for exposure in project navigator20:41
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114690.html20:41
ttxThe web team at the Foundation would like to expose accurate API version information in the Project Navigator20:41
ttxA noble goal20:41
ttxSo they would like to collect things like http://paste.openstack.org/show/604775/ or http://paste.openstack.org/show/604776/ (which rosmaita proposed)20:41
ttxI would rather not add this to projects.yaml though, because it's not governance, nor does it need TC approval20:41
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ttxlsell suggested that they create a specific project-navigator repository to collect that information20:42
johnthetubaguywe have links to api-ref docs now, is there a reason why thats not enough?20:42
ttx(and any other non-governance-releated information they will need for the navigator in the future)20:42
mtreinishttx: yeah it seems out of place in projects.yaml20:42
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ttxDoes that sound like a good idea ? We can make it a TC-owned repo and delegate review.20:42
ttxOr would you rather collect that information somewhere else ?20:42
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ttxjohnthetubaguy: I think the issue is if each project does things differently20:42
johnthetubaguyit just feels like a failure of the existing API docs20:42
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : ++20:42
sdagueso, I think a machine structured overview in api-ref feels like the right thing here20:43
mtreinishttx: I'm with johnthetubaguy, it feels like the projects can expose this in a standard way20:43
sdaguewe just need a schema20:43
fungiwhat if it's consumable by the existing api docs, simply extracted into its own tree/repo for reduced duplication?20:43
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dhellmannttx: if we want to standardize, then let's get the API WG to set a standard20:43
johnthetubaguysdague: that works20:43
jrolljohnthetubaguy: so the new project navigator wants to show which API versions are supported in (the current?) release. I would show you but the dev version is broken20:43
jrollsdague: that makes sense to me20:43
fungiseems a lot like the discussion about coming up with a standard format for driver feature matrices between projects20:43
dhellmannjroll : the question is, why is that in the navigator to begin with?20:44
ttxdhellmann: it's blocking the release of the new version though, so it's not realkly a one-year thing20:44
jrolljohnthetubaguy: ah here it is, see version history toward the bottom http://devbranch.openstack.org/software/releases/ocata/components/glance20:44
dhellmannfungi : ++20:44
dhellmannttx : the question is, why is that in the navigator to begin with?20:44
jrolldhellmann: good question, I can't answer that :/20:44
fungithe project navigator wants a project/api versioning history, the marketplace wants driver feature matrices and contact details...20:44
ttxdhellmann: I asked the question, and it was mentioned as a useful piece of information to communicate about a given service20:44
dhellmannttx: I'm also not sure why you think agreeing on a standard outside of any of our processes is going to be faster or work better than using the working group :-)20:44
sdaguethe API version information seems useful honestly, I have no problem with it being there20:44
mordredit should be correct though20:45
mordredand should include the list of versions each release supports20:45
sdagueI think we just need an owner on defining a schema20:45
mordredlike, that glance page is wrong20:45
ttxdhellmann: well, the API WG was very busy for the last 3 months defining API compatibility :)20:45
dhellmannthen, yeah, I guess let's set up a new repo to hold whatever data the navigator team needs that isn't available somewhere else20:45
jrollmordred: right, hence why we're talking about a machine readable format :)20:45
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ttxdhellmann: ++20:45
fungioptions seem to be in a central repo or distributed across teams20:46
dhellmannsdague : wouldn't that be the navigator devs?20:46
flaper87dhellmann: ++20:46
mordredI mean - we do already have a machine readable format for versions in a release - maybe we just use that?20:46
sdaguedhellmann: sure20:46
fungibut with a consistent schema in either case20:46
ttxI mean, *if* data ends up being covered somewhere else, we can delete it from the project-navigator extra-information directory20:46
dhellmannfungi : centralize it20:46
jrollmordred: we do? for api versions?20:46
mordredand whereit diverges across projects, use this as an opportuntity to fix that20:46
mordredjroll: yes20:46
sdaguemordred: it's not super readable20:46
mordredno - it's Machine readable20:46
jrollmordred: where?20:46
mordreda program can read it20:46
sdagueyeh, where?20:46
mordredthe version discovery document each service services from /20:47
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sdaguemordred: ok, but you have to stand up the services at all those versions20:47
dhellmannso literally you have to stand the service up and ask it20:47
jrollmordred: you want the project navigator to run every version of every api service?20:47
mordrednono - I get that ...20:47
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mordredI'm not saying we collect it that way20:47
mordredI'm saying we HAVE a format - we just need to collect it and stick it somewhere20:47
mordredso it can be read20:47
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dhellmannoh, just use the same format20:47
cdentwhy not each project keep a chunk of yaml in its own git. the projects.yaml knows where those repos are20:47
jrollthe question is where :)20:47
mordredliterally ever project can already produce this data20:47
sdaguecdent: yeh, pretty much20:47
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ttxmordred: we could dump that information in that project-navigator git repo alright20:48
mordredcdent: sure. but maybe keep that chunk of yaml in an identical document format to what  GET / would return20:48
* johnthetubaguy is still confused what people use that info in the navigator for, has CD too ingrained in his head20:48
dhellmannI don't know. I'd just put it in one repo. It's much easier to change the schema as needed that way, since the tools could live there, too.20:48
jrollI'm fine with something in api-ref per project or a central repo. tend to prefer the former so we can update it in the same patch that changes the microversion20:48
ttxdhellmann: much easier to collect the information too20:48
cdentmordred: yeah, that would be nice20:48
ttxcloning a thousand repos is not taht fun20:48
dhellmannttx: ++20:49
fungiyep, so comes back to the same as the driver feature matrix discussion. we agree there should be a common schema, there's disagreement on whether it's centralized (and whose responsibility it is to review proposed changes) or distributed across teams to each maintain their own20:49
johnthetubaguybut, will it be kept up to date if it is centralized?20:49
mordredthing is - if there is a single document with a collection of discovery documents for a release20:49
sdaguettx: cloning them is more fun then forgetting to update the centralized repo20:49
mordredthen one would imagine a tool for reading it20:49
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : will it be kept up to date if it's not?20:49
johnthetubaguywhat fungi said20:49
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mordredwhich would mean maybe a _cloud_ would also post such a documentfor itself20:49
mordredthat could also be read20:49
mordredwithout having to hit every service20:49
mordredand we baby step towards users knowing what's going on20:49
johnthetubaguydhellmann: it seems as likely as the api-ref to be up to date, if its part of that20:49
sdagueyeh, api-ref has high incentive to stay up to date now20:50
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : they want the history, too, though, right? not just what's current?20:50
* cdent gives mordred hope and glory20:50
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sdagueand that's part of a normal management process20:50
johnthetubaguydhellmann: that seems like a one time thing that needs adding as a release goal20:50
sdagueanyway, we still need a schema20:50
jrolldhellmann: ironic is able to keep something like this up https://github.com/openstack/ironic/blob/master/doc/source/dev/webapi-version-history.rst20:50
jrolljust needs a format20:50
fungidhellmann: the schema could be append-only and you just stop updating it in stable branches?20:50
dhellmannok. I'm not doing the work, so I'll let others decide on central or distributed data storage.20:50
sdaguettx: whoever is doing this from foundation side able to tackle the schema question, as they are parsing it?20:51
mordredplease don't define a new schema. please please please20:51
sdaguemordred: then you define the schema :)20:51
dhellmannmordred : are all of the services returning data in the same schema?20:51
thingeewould like to bring up that for the Market Place, the projects are coming together on Nova's originally matrix in a ini file as a common format to suck in the information to the foundation's site.20:51
ttxmordred: available to work with jimmy on a format ?20:51
fungimordred: what current schema do you have that encapsulates the release-by-release portion of the requirement?20:51
mordreddhellmann: it's nearly identical - the schema being the superset is not hard20:51
thingeethese come from each project's repo. could probably just follow that idea20:51
sdaguebecause I guess I don't quite see how we get from the single release one we have to the multi one20:51
dhellmannmordred : ok, cool20:51
sdaguemordred: but if you solve it, will totally implement it20:52
mordredsdague: awesome. I will sign up to do that20:52
* dims checks what's on mordred 's plate already :)20:52
ttxI just don't want them to be stuck until we agree on a file format when all they need is a piece of information from each project :)20:52
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* dhellmann hands mordred another plate to hold this new task20:52
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ttx#agreed mordred will come up with a format that avoids creating yet another format for this information20:53
sdaguettx: well, mordred hopefully figures it out quick with jimmy20:53
fungiperhaps we could, in parallel, give them the info they need for the initial veesion of teh site and work on a format/parser so they don't have to keep asking?20:53
sdaguethen we implement quick20:53
ttxsdague: yes, I'm hopeful :) They are in the same TZ20:53
sdagueany ask is basically just doing that with an adhoc schema20:53
fungiheck, they're in the same state a lot of the time20:53
ttxfungi: that's plan B if plan A takes forever20:53
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ttxOK, I'll connect the dots20:54
ttx* TC election - this is nomination week20:54
ttx#link https://governance.openstack.org/election/20:54
ttxAs a reminder, the following members have terms ending in April: dims, dtroyer, flaper87, johnthetubaguy, mtreinish, thingee, ttx20:54
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ttxWhether you plan to run (or plan not to run), you should probably post something this week to the -dev list.20:54
* johnthetubaguy nods at ttx20:54
ttxAnything else, anyone ?20:54
thingeeI have announced my non-candidacy http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-April/114974.html20:54
zanebI added the footnote with implementation info that sdague requested to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447031/20:55
sdagueTC vision draft is out20:55
ttxdhellmann, EmilienM, thingee: quick update on Forum topics selection, maybe ?20:55
sdague#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/453262/20:55
jrollsdague: ++20:55
EmilienMttx: we are working on the selection this week20:55
* dims thanks thingee for his work and guidance on the TC!20:55
EmilienMand we are ranking the sessions20:55
thingeettx: we have a process in place to start selecting before our meeting this thursday I believe?20:55
dhellmannwe're reviewing now and meeting thursday to discuss the forum sessions20:55
sdaguettx: I think you are on the hook for doing the email broadcast around that20:55
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ttxdims: he is not gone yet20:55
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ttxsdague: yes20:55
* mtreinish is still working on his election repo patch20:55
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fungidims: i think that means there's still time to change his mind? ;)20:56
EmilienMsdague: we should tweet it :D20:56
sdagueEmilienM: feel free :)20:56
dimsfungi :)20:56
EmilienMsdague: I'm bad at that20:56
sdagueI was just making sure it got out there, and I think ttx said he was going to do the publicizing20:56
ttxsdague: I'm fine with sharing the task with whoever20:57
johnthetubaguydoes that come once we have the survey ready?20:57
ttxJust thoughts I would use my -dev ML juice for the cause20:57
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* ttx gmances at the TC backlog20:58
ttxglances even20:58
dimswe should get this out (castellan/oslo - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/451131/)20:58
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: good question, probably worth getting gothicmindfood looped in on that. It would be nice to have survey feedback ready to go20:58
ttxzaneb's Resolution on OpenStack's mission for cloud applications shall be back on the table next week20:58
sdaguewhen the ML post hits20:58
johnthetubaguysdague: +120:59
dhellmanndims : I think that one falls under the "one week with no objections" rule20:59
dimsah cool thanks dhellmann20:59
zanebttx: I updated the review after last week's discussion20:59
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ttxzaneb: yes, looks like it's going well20:59
zanebI think that addresses everything sdague requested20:59
ttxmordred's "Add tag assert:never-breaks-compat" might be back if there is some new rev in it20:59
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sdaguezaneb: yes, thank you21:00
EmilienMI'll probably skip next meeting, due to the leadership training21:00
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johnthetubaguyI like the cloud application thing, its really the same thing I was trying to do with the VM & BM resolution, so I might think on how to do the same thing for that21:00
dtroyera non-trivial subset of us will be in MI next week…21:00
ttxWe'll also discuss the App Catalog team removal21:00
zanebsdague: cool, thanks21:00
dimsoutta time...21:00
fungiEmilienM: as will i21:00
ttxOh right21:00
jrollmichigan \o/21:00
* fungi updates excuses list21:00
ttxWe might want to skip21:00
dtroyer5 by my count21:00
ttxYou clearly should not have a TC meeting during that week21:00
dhellmannthat's a big group to be missing21:00
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ttxok, I'll move that discussion to the -tc ML21:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  4 21:01:08 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-04-04-20.01.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-04-04-20.01.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-04-04-20.01.log.html21:01
ttxMissed taht conflict21:01
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fungilooks like we have 6 tc members attending, so quorum will be tough21:01
* fungi may also have miscounted21:01
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ttxAlso in the middle of campaigning period, so not crazy to skip21:01
zanebttx: fwiw I won't be around next week either21:01
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ttxoh well, sold21:01
oneswig#startmeeting scientific-wg21:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  4 21:02:16 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'21:02
oneswigand now for something completely different :-)21:02
ttxoneswig: sorry for being late leaving the room, as always21:02
oneswigNo problem ttx!21:02
ttxI tend to rant at 11pm21:02
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trandlesI just got back from another meeting but it looks like I didn't miss much yet21:02
* fungi now has mpfc theme music stuck in his head21:03
fungithanks oneswig21:03
oneswigDon't we all???21:03
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oneswig#link agenda for today: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_April_4th_201721:03
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oneswigthe larch21:03
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oneswig#chair martial21:03
openstackCurrent chairs: martial oneswig21:03
martialhello oneswig priteau21:04
oneswigHello priteau trandles martial et al21:04
martialHello world :)21:04
oneswigIs Blair online?21:04
oneswigLet us press on, hopefully he'll catch up21:05
martial#topic OpenStack Summit sessions21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Summit sessions (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:05
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oneswigmartial: and then there were three!21:05
martialSo we have three planned meeting at this point: General  / BoF / Lightning Talk21:06
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oneswigDo they run consecutively?21:07
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oneswigI saw some messages go by about rescheduling...21:07
martialwe have two slots on wednesday morning21:07
martial9am to 9:40am and 9:50am to 10:40am21:07
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priteauI see lightning talks on Tuesday21:07
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oneswigmartial: will you and Blair run the lightning talks session or are you looking for volunteers?21:09
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trandlesthe scheduling gods very graciously moved things around to avoid conflicts with the congress21:09
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martialoneswig we are chairing I believe, actually just me21:09
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martialoneswig: so yes I need an extra volunteers for Tuesday21:09
martial#chair b1airo21:09
openstackCurrent chairs: b1airo martial oneswig21:09
oneswigHi b1airo21:09
b1airoapologies for the lateness - wifi woes21:10
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martialI do not know if blair will be there by Tuesday at noon21:10
b1aironeither do i yet...21:10
b1airowhat have we got on Tuesday, the BoF ?21:11
jmloweIf you need laymen I can help out on Tuesday21:11
oneswigThanks jmlowe - let's minute that!21:11
martialhi jim, you will be welcome, thank you21:11
b1airoha, GTC schedule is up! my talk is at 11am on Monday, so I should be back in Boston on Tuesday - may not have slept much though...21:12
oneswigmartial b1airo: what are the plans for the free-form session on Wednesday?21:12
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b1airolet's make an action to get our "Scientific OpenStack Summit Schedule" drafted21:13
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b1airo#action: b1airo to draft Summit schedule etherpad21:13
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b1airohi rbudden21:14
rbuddensorry i’m a bit late21:14
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b1airoit's fashionable21:14
b1airo(i should know)21:14
rbuddenbaby duty ;)21:14
oneswig#action jmlowe to help with lightning talks session21:15
oneswighi rbudden - hope fatherhood's going well...21:15
rbuddeni’m willing to help with lightning talk orchestration as well21:15
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b1airoah yes of course, i'd forgotten - congratulations rbudden! hope fatherhood is treating you well21:15
rbuddenoneswig: thanks, going good!21:15
oneswig#action rbudden too21:15
rbuddenb1airo: thanks!21:16
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priteauCongratulations rbudden, I didn't know.21:16
trandlesindeed, congrats!21:16
rbuddenthanks all! i’ll give everyone the baby updates at the summit outside our meeting ;)21:16
rbuddenpics of course!21:16
trandlesyou're learning just how overrated sleep can be ;)21:16
martial(need 5 minutes for something, brb, sorry)21:17
b1airooneswig, looks like you beat me to it? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Scientific-WG-boston21:17
oneswigNo recollection of that - was it the other oneswig? :-_21:17
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b1airoyou should get him to stay at home while you come to boston?!21:18
oneswigI suspect he's already used my ticket!21:19
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oneswigWhat's the latest on the forum topics?21:22
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b1airoi was wondering that too and thinking about following up to the lists asking about the next steps21:24
priteaub1airo: I brought up the duplicate reservation topic at our Blazar meeting this morning. Masahito wasn't there, but he should reply to your comment hopefully today21:24
b1airoi don't think the 2nd part of the process worked as well as the foundation folks were expecting, so there seems to be a bit of work in sifting through and combining sessions21:24
b1airohi priteau - cool, well maybe it isn't a duplicate, but certainly related21:25
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martialI have not heard much back either on the forum topics, the etherpad does list names now21:26
oneswigOn that subject I'm aware of plenty of other work going on with cinder multi-attach that should combine into one21:26
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b1airowould be good to cover the high level advanced scheduling topics. Blazar no doubt deserves its own session/s21:26
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oneswigpriteau: how much activity are you seeing now on blazar?21:27
b1airomartial, the etherpad is now obsolete - they all needed to be submitted to forumtopics.openstack.org21:27
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priteauoneswig: we have a group of 4 core reviewers that are quite active, plus at least 3 non-core regular reviewers. All participate in weekly meetings, contributing to specs, etc.21:28
oneswigpriteau: that's brilliant - well done on bringing it back to life21:28
priteauWe still have some bug fixing to do, but the hardest part has been done I think. We're starting to include new functionality.21:29
martialb1airo: the ones with names are our BoF at this point then? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-UC-brainstorming-scientific-wg21:29
priteauIt was a common effort, I am glad I was able to meet interested folks in Barcelona21:29
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b1airomartial, the working group sessions have been pre-organised - the other stuff is the free-form community-lead part21:30
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b1airopriteau, does that mean Blazar is now working with Nova trunk again ?21:30
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priteaub1airo: yes, it's the first thing we fixed21:31
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priteauwe have a devstack install + tempest tests gate21:31
oneswigpriteau: is OPIE on the event horizon yet?21:31
b1airopriteau, would be good to get your input on the current thread on os-ops ML21:32
priteauoneswig: not yet, but that's a great discussion topic for the forum21:32
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b1airoand does this mean Blazar is fully relying on manipulating host-aggregates for reservations now and can work alongside on-demand aggregates ?21:33
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priteaub1airo: will do, I have noticed this thread only today21:34
priteaub1airo: yes, you summed it up well in your email21:34
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oneswigI just noticed, the forum proposals I made have comments added - I don't think I was mailed about this.  If you have proposed forum topics, better check their state for comments in case...21:36
b1airoah good, how prescient of me21:36
priteauMy email filters were matching on [blazar] and [scientific-wg], so I only saw it when I manually browser user-committee21:36
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b1airoah, i think we advise using [scientific] on the wiki, but i've noticed oneswig uses both - can we pick one?21:37
b1airooneswig, yeah i asked Tom about that and he said this time around we just have to keep checking21:38
oneswigPreviously I've thought of scientific-wg for user-committee (being wg centric) and scientific for ops21:38
oneswigbut having just one makes much more sense!21:38
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priteauSorry to hijack the agenda with mailing list etiquette :-)21:39
martialpriteau: hey regexp rules are important21:40
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b1airoi like the shortest option: [scientific] - gotta same valuable subject line real estate21:41
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trandlespriteau: I've had the same difficulties with the subject tags so THX for hijacking ;)21:42
priteauoneswig: maybe keep [scientific-wg] for a couple of weeks and mention it in your next agenda emails21:42
oneswigIn OpenStack, even an email subject tag has to have a managed EOL :-)21:43
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oneswig#action oneswig to stop tagging with [scientific-wg] - use [scientific] instead - in a couple of weeks21:43
oneswig#action priteau to update his mail filters21:43
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priteauDone, I have updated my filter to match on Subject contains scientific. No wg, no square brackets!21:43
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oneswigOK are there items for the Boston Cloud Congress?21:45
b1airooneswig, lol, no just rip it out and wait to see if anyone screams21:45
martialoneswig: agree wtih b1airo on this one21:46
oneswigb1airo: your alternative career in medicine is a tragic loss21:46
martialI am part of most meetings and its agenda is coming together21:47
b1airomartial, do you have a handle on the overarching goals for the meeting ?21:48
rbuddeni’ve been lurking on the meetings as well and will be attending… are the majority of this group staying for the BCC?21:48
oneswigmartial: what direction are things going in?21:48
martialrbudden: I am21:48
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priteauI'm registered for the BCC, but depending on the schedule I might also attend summit sessions on Thursday21:49
trandlesI'll be at the congress21:49
martialwell it is still moving into generating working groups21:49
martialand the agenda and the search for speaker21:49
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martialam trying to find the link the proposed agenda21:50
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bolligmartial: ? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ADid14vKrN6YM5V9SV6Sbvj8Ud87I5vJ16CaaTRmj-c/pub21:51
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martialbollig: thanks, a direct link to the proposed agenda21:51
martial#link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i3gjLxaFk8FcX_RNNT5iicELuUCE24x6HAQ4M4O4Q5I/edit21:51
martialas you can see they are splitting it into different topics/interest groups21:52
martialthey want to have breakout sessions21:53
priteauThe event dates are out of date right?21:53
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martialin general the tone of the teleconference is good, although still many items to clarify21:53
b1airopriteau, yes as far as i know it's thurs-fri21:54
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priteaub1airo: that's what I signed up for21:54
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oneswigGood to see matters taking shape21:54
b1airoanyone have the actual rego link handy ?21:54
martialregistration link #link https://www.eventbrite.com/e/boston-open-research-cloud-workshop-tickets-3189325658921:54
martial#link https://www.eventbrite.com/e/boston-open-research-cloud-workshop-tickets-3189325658921:55
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oneswigNearly out of time... any more to cover here?21:56
trandlesshould be some action on the evening social soon21:56
priteauIs there a social?21:56
trandlesthere is21:56
oneswigYes indeed...21:56
trandlesI think I'll be asking for a venue vote in the next week21:57
oneswigWe ought to look at choice of evening too I guess21:57
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trandlesI was tentatively thinking Wednesday night21:57
martialis there an official stack-party this time?21:57
martial(ie not that night :) )21:58
trandlesthere is, at Fenway Park on Tuesday21:58
oneswigtrandles: makes good sense to have it after speakers have spoken on HPC/Research track - which IIRC is mostly Wednesday21:58
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martialtrandles: do not remember receiving a link to register21:58
trandleshaven't put one out yet martial21:58
trandlesmostly because oneswig and I are still working funding21:59
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b1airotrandles, yeah Weds is probably a good choice given i imagine there will be a dinner or something on thursday of the BCD21:59
martialtrandles: I meant for the official partay21:59
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trandlesmartial: I haven't seen anything but an announcement for the official do21:59
trandlesand that might have been on facebook or something22:00
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martialb1airo: from the BCD's agenda:"BREAK for general participants until dinner at 19.30"22:00
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oneswigWe are out of time, alas22:00
martialso yes Thuesday is BCD night22:00
trandlesoneswig: I'll email you RE: social...22:00
oneswigtrandles: already looking forward to it :-)22:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  4 22:01:07 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-04-04-21.02.html22:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-04-04-21.02.txt22:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-04-04-21.02.log.html22:01
rbuddentrandles: hit me up with the social as well22:01
oneswigThanks y'all22:01
rbuddenlooking forward to Boston!22:01
trandlesrbudden: will do22:01
rbuddenyep, talk to everyone later!22:01
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priteaumartial: https://twitter.com/OpenStack/status/83929085246375936022:02
priteaurbudden: https://twitter.com/OpenStack/status/83929085246375936022:02
oneswigThe green monster!22:02
rbuddenpriteau: thx22:02
b1airocheers all, good night/day22:02
martialpriteau: cool22:02
oneswigUntil next time22:02
martialsee you all :)22:03
priteaubye all!22:03
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