Tuesday, 2017-04-25

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 25 03:00:09 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-04-25_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
mkraiMadhuri Kumari03:00
pksinghHello, all03:00
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hongbinthanks for joining mkrai pksingh kevinz Namrata03:01
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hongbinthanks for joining Shunli03:01
hongbinok, let's get started03:01
hongbin#topic Announcements03:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)"03:01
hongbin1. We will have a "Boston Summit" release by the end of April03:01
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hongbinthe python-zunclient already released03:02
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hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459160/03:02
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hongbinwill release zun and zun-ui in this week03:02
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hongbinjust let me know if you have any patch wanted to be included in the release03:02
hongbinor you saw any patch that should be included03:03
hongbin2. Review Zun's mascot03:03
hongbin#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/attachments/20170421/1db0d2fb/attachment.png03:03
hongbinall, what do you think about this mascot?03:03
shubhamshongbin: Will we have some release doc or some document that lists what we supports ?03:03
mkraiI looked at it and it looks really good03:03
mkrai+1 for it03:03
Shunlicute, looks like docker's mascot03:04
pksinghwill mirror image be better?03:04
hongbinshubhams: yes, there should be some release notes to explain the list of features of this release03:04
shubhamshongbin: ack03:04
shubhamshongbin: mascot looks cool +103:04
hongbinshubhams: will write the notes if i have a chance, otherwise, leave it to the pike release03:04
shubhamshongbin: got that03:05
hongbinpksingh: what is mirrow image?03:05
hongbinok, it looks most people like the mascot, i will approve it03:06
hongbinany other announcement from our team members?03:06
hongbinseems no03:07
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hongbin#topic Review Action Items03:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)"03:07
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hongbin1. hongbin help diga to get the cinder integration patch passed the gate (IN PROGRESS)03:07
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pksingh_sorry i got disconnected03:07
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/429943/03:07
hongbinpksingh_: you said something about mirror image?03:07
hongbinpksingh_: what do you mean by mirror image?03:08
pksingh_face just opposite, means towards left03:08
hongbini see03:08
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mkraipksingh_: Any reason ?03:09
pksingh_mkrai: no specific reason, just i think it would look better03:09
pksingh_just from myside, nothing strong about it03:10
mkraipksingh_: Ok03:10
mkraiI am ok with the current one03:10
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hongbinok, let's get back to the action item03:11
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/429943/03:11
hongbindiga cannot join the meeting today03:12
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hongbini left a message to the review, mentioning that it missed a db migration script so the gate broke03:12
hongbinwill ping him about that after the meeting03:12
hongbin#topic Cinder integration (diga)03:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder integration (diga) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:12
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/cinder-zun-integration The BP03:13
hongbinok, i just mentioned this bp03:13
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hongbinit looks the progress of this bp is slow, i am going to mark it as slow progress03:13
hongbinany comment about this one?03:14
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hongbinseems no03:14
hongbin#topic Kuryr integration (hongbin)03:15
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hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/kuryr-integration The BP03:15
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hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/453387/03:15
hongbinthe patch got merged last week03:15
hongbinthanks everyone for the reviewing03:15
hongbinthis is a big patch, just let me know if you find anything that is breaking03:16
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hongbinit requires to run devstack with kuryr-libnetwork enabled, if not, you will got an error message on creating containers03:16
ShunliThanks hongbin.03:17
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kevinzThx hongbin03:17
hongbinmy pleasure03:17
hongbinmkrai: i think you will continue the work on defining the network api?03:18
mkraihongbin: Sure03:18
hongbinmkrai: ok, i don't think the network api is urgent, (the Boston summit is the priority)03:18
mkraiI will design the APIs and then share with team03:18
hongbinmkrai: just take your time about that03:19
mkraihongbin: Ok thanks03:19
hongbinmkrai: ok, thanks03:19
kevinza small question, the container can connect internet after launch? Do we need some to do in neutron side?03:19
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hongbinif the cloud provide has setup the neutron net, you don't need to do anything03:20
hongbinwhich is similar to vm03:20
Shunlido we need something like floating ip?03:20
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hongbinyes, if you want to connect from outside to container, you will need the floating ip03:21
Shunliso bind floating ip to container is on the to do list03:21
hongbinthe way to do that is to find the neutron port of the container, and associate a floating ip to the neutron port03:22
hongbini think yes, we might need an api to automatically associate floating ip03:22
hongbinall, thoughts on this?03:23
Shunliok, i see. thx03:23
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hongbinok, i will track this idea by a bp03:23
mkraiI think we should have this API in zun03:23
hongbinmkrai: ack03:23
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hongbin#action hongbin create a bp for floating ip association to containers03:23
hongbinany other questions about this topic?03:24
hongbinok, advance topic03:25
hongbin#topic Introduce container composition03:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce container composition (Meeting topic: zun)"03:25
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437759/03:25
hongbinkevinz: ^^03:25
kevinzHi all03:25
kevinzThanks everyone for review this spec03:25
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kevinzAnd there are two question need to discuss03:26
kevinz1. since zun also gives container life-cycle management facility then will the user be able to manage their containers that are running inside a capsule ?03:26
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kevinzWe dont have mechanism to label the hosts yet, do we need to give the control of host selection to user?03:26
kevinzThe questions are just picked from comments :-)03:27
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hongbinall, thoughts on these?03:27
Shunli+1 for label the host03:27
Shunliwhether user can controller the host selection not sure.03:28
kevinznova support label the host. user can choose host when launch vm03:28
hongbinkevinz: could you elaborate?03:29
mkraiFor 1, I think we shouldn't allow this because it might bring some inconsistency across zun. For example, we delete a container from a capsule or etc03:29
kevinzI think " give the control of host" is give user the authority to choose the host which launch the container03:29
kevinzFor 1,  +1 with mkrai03:30
hongbinok, let's discuss #1 first03:30
mkraikevinz: as per my knowledge, Nova doesn't allow host selection directly. It is done through host-aggregate. Right?03:30
mkraiOk #1 first03:31
hongbini am not sure what it means by "manage their containers that are running inside a capsure"03:31
shubhamsmkrai: kevinz : for #1, That will mean that zun can support individual container lifecyle management but when the container is created through capsule api then it wont allow to handle container operations03:31
shubhamsmkrai: kevinz : Am I right here in my understanding ?03:31
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mkraishubhams: Yes03:32
hongbinthere are several apis: create, delete, update, logs, restart, rename, ...03:32
pksingh_for #1 i think create/delete container in capsule should not be done, but other operations should be possible03:32
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hongbinhow these operations will behave for a in-capsule container and a bare container03:32
shubhamsmkrai: then its wont be listed in zun list as well  (I suppose)03:33
mkraiI agree with pksingh_ here, the rest of the actions apply to capsule as well03:33
mkraishubhams: I suppose so, it shouldn't be listed03:34
hongbinmkrai: if it is not listable, users won't be able to find the container to operate on it?03:34
pksingh_after seeing the list, i think exec and logs should be possible on containers in capsule03:34
kevinzHere I find nova support specify host https://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide/cli-nova-specify-host.html03:34
pksingh_i think other operations would change the state of the container03:34
hongbini see, state change operations are not allowed03:35
kevinzsorry for late responding , my boss call me just now...03:35
mkraihongbin: I am not sure whether we can allow to perform actions on individual container in capsule03:35
hongbinkevinz: ok, i will handle this topic, take your time03:35
mkraihongbin: Right, it might bring inconsistency03:35
mkraipksingh_: We can restart, stop, pause etc a capsule also03:36
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mkraihongbin: Are we going to have another set of APIs for capsule or just reuse the same as containers?03:37
pksingh_mkrai: i am not sure, if i want to stop or restart, simply delete and create would be enough?03:37
hongbinmkrai: i think kevinz proposed a /capsule endpoint, so it is another set of apis03:38
mkraihongbin: Ok03:38
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mkraiI think we should then allow only read only container APIs to capsule for single containers03:39
shubhamsMy take for supported apis for individual apis : exec and logs .. also restart and stop upto some extent03:39
kevinzhongbin: ok, thanks hongbin. I'm back now03:40
shubhamsmkrai: +1 for read only container03:40
pksingh_k8s support only attach/exec/logs, https://kubernetes.io/docs/user-guide/kubectl-overview/03:40
mkraiOr to completely segregate this two resources, we can have similar capsule-* APIs also. But this APIs might me redudant03:40
hongbinyes, since attach/exec/logs only make senses on single contianer03:41
pksingh_yes i think the same03:41
shubhamsyeah .. internally capsule api can perform other operations as required03:41
hongbini think we can do this: list all the operaitons in the etherpad, then iterate each one to see which one should be allowed for a in-capsule container, and which one is not03:43
shubhamshongbin:  great idea03:43
hongbinkevinz: i think you have an etherpad for capsule in before?03:44
kevinzyes here03:44
hongbinok, let't do it in the etherpad03:44
kevinzI will move item to etherpad03:44
hongbinok, then move to #203:45
hongbinWe dont have mechanism to label the hosts yet, do we need to give the control of host selection to user?03:45
kevinzIn the 138-151 is the capsule api03:45
hongbin#link https://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide/cli-nova-specify-host.html03:46
kevinzThat is user can select host to launch container03:46
hongbinin nova, only admin can use "forced_host" to select a host03:46
hongbinnormal usrs can choose availability zone, but not a specific host03:47
kevinzYeah, that right03:47
hongbinhowever, that is for nova03:47
hongbinwhat about us? thoughts?03:48
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kevinzDoes this operation induce some issue? If not, I thinks it's OK to have the function03:48
mkraiI don't have a very strong take on it, if we allow this should be admin only03:49
hongbin#link https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/pike/approved/resource-provider-traits.html03:49
Shunli+1 for label host. But give the control of host selection to user-not sure.03:49
hongbinthe placement api has a proposal about traits, which is a similar idea as lables03:50
ShunliI lean to think host selection of a in-capsule container is some policy controll on the capsule.03:50
hongbinShunli: yes, i agree03:51
hongbini also think host labels would be a good idea03:51
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hongbinfor who has privileage to select host, i am open for ideas03:52
shubhamshongbin: kevinz : This host labelling is for associating a capsule to a host , not a container to a host .. right?03:52
hongbinin addition, i am thinking how to aglin host labeling with the traits api above03:53
Shunlihongbin: i guess like nova. only admin can select host.03:53
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mkraiShunli: Right03:53
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mkraishubhams: Right03:53
hongbinshubhams: not sure right now03:53
Shunlinormal user can not see the host in the datacenter.03:53
hongbinShunli: yes03:54
hongbinhide hosts from users is basically the model03:54
hongbinok, we are running close to the end03:55
hongbinlet me record the discussion as bp03:55
hongbin#action hongbin create a bp to track the idea of labeling hosts03:55
hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)"03:55
hongbinNamrata: want to give the team a update about your heat work?03:56
Namratai am working on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437810/03:56
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Namratawill update the patch today. working on inlien comments03:57
mkraiI will work with Namrata on this as we might need it for summit03:57
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hongbinNamrata: great work Namrata03:57
NamrataHongbin mkrai:Thanks for the help03:57
hongbinmkrai: thx03:57
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hongbinNamrata: np, do you have ideas how to address the comments?03:58
hongbinNamrata: for example, is any comment that needs a clarification for you?03:58
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NamrataNo i am okay with the explaination03:59
hongbinNamrata: ok, ping me or others offline if you need helps to address those comments03:59
hongbinNamrata: ack03:59
Namratathanks hongbin03:59
hongbinNamrata: welcome03:59
hongbinok, all, thanks for joining the meeting03:59
hongbinsee you next time03:59
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"04:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 25 04:00:00 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)04:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-04-25-03.00.html04:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-04-25-03.00.txt04:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-04-25-03.00.log.html04:00
samPHi all for masakari...o/04:00
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Dinesh_BhorHi all04:01
samP#startmeeting masakari04:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 25 04:01:19 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is samP. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.04:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.04:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'masakari'04:01
samPhi all o/04:01
samPsorry for last week..04:01
samPHad a super busy week, cause I became a father :)04:02
Dinesh_BhorsamP: congrats!!04:03
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samPthank you all..04:03
samPlet's jump in to agenda04:03
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samP#topic critical bugs04:03
*** openstack changes topic to "critical bugs (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:03
samPany bugs to discuss?04:04
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samPIf no bugs to discuss, let's move to Discussion. if any we can address them later in AOB04:05
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samP#topic Discussion Points04:06
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tpatil#link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/masakari-recovery-method-customization04:06
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samPtriggering crash dump in a server?04:06
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tpatilsamP: Yes04:07
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tpatilsamP: can you please explain a little bit about this use case?04:07
samPtpatil: sure04:07
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samPThis is for wait core dump or crash dump befor shout down a server04:08
samPWhen pacemakser stonith a server, it does not wait for core domp.04:09
samPIn our user environment, servers has 264GB RAM and it take 20-30 mis to do the core dump.04:10
samPHowever, when host fails, pacemaker do the stonith and no time for server to do the core dump04:11
samPThis feture is for isolate the server from the network except form IPMI and give some time for server to do the core dump.04:12
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tpatilsamP: can masakari-monitor receive the event to trigger core dump?04:14
samPtpatil: not in current04:14
rkmrHonjoOh, I haven't recognised it.04:15
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rkmrHonjoShould I write receiving trigger core dump bp for monitor?04:15
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tpatilsamP: I think this job should be done by masakari-monitor instead of masakari04:16
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samPrkmrHonjo: currently I have no idea for how to receiv this trigger in masakari monitors04:17
samPtpatil: IMHO, job can be done in masakari monitors, but recovery method shold define in masakari,04:18
tpatilsamP: what action will massacre take after receiving notification to take core dump?04:18
tpatilsorry, s/massacre/masakari04:19
rkmrHonjoMassacre is scared...04:20
samPtpatil: IMO, masakari will not get the notificaion for core dump.04:20
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samPIt is a one of the recovery actions04:20
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tpatilOn my machine auto spell check is enabled, I will find out a way to disable this feature04:20
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samPMasakari only get the node failure notification, and recovery action would be isolate server(wait for core dumo) -> evacuate04:21
tpatilsamP: Who will trigger core dump is complete?04:22
samPtpatil: core dump will automanitcally triggered by the kernel04:23
samPIn HW failures , exceptions, kernel panic...etc will trigger the core dump in the server04:24
samPwe just have wait for it to dumo all the pages to file..04:24
tpatilsamP: Are you suggesting masakari should run recovery action which will trigger core dump and wait until kernel signals it's complete using IPMI protocol?04:25
samP^^ just have to wait04:25
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samPtpatil: No, that can not be done. On the other hand, masakari do not have wait for core dump. it just need to ask pacemaker to ifdown the networks and isolate the node.04:27
samPfor masakari, network isolation = node dead04:28
samPSo masakari can do evacuate VMs as noraml way04:28
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tpatilsamP: I'm trying to understand the end-to-end workflow when any node is down for some reason04:29
samPtpatil: OK let me write down the simple flow04:30
tpatilsamP: thank you04:31
samP(1) masakari monitor sends the node failure notificaion04:31
samP(2) Masakari ask pacemaker to NW isolation of the node (<- call the pacemaker cluster to do that)04:32
samP(3) Masakari get the reply from pacemaker "node isolation is done"04:32
samP(4) Masakari trigger nova evacuate for VMs on that node04:33
samP(5) done04:33
tpatilsamP: Masakari doesn't store any info about pacemaker cluster, need to figure out how to store this info when operator configures failover segment and hosts04:33
samPtpatil: you are correct..04:34
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tpatilsamP: understood the workflow. will check what information should be stored to isolate the node04:34
samPtpatil: we have to configure the resoureces on pacemaker side to do this..04:35
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samPmost of the work will be done in the pacemaker side. So, pacemaker and corosync need to configure correctly04:35
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samPI will wire down more info related to this in etherpad..04:36
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sagaraI think we need to avoid split brain about volume booted VMs on failure node04:37
tpatilsamP: thank you04:37
sagaraDo we need some confirmation? and we need to design this feature carefully about fenced enough for that VMs.04:37
samPsagara: does NW isolation avoid that?04:37
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sagaraI don't know NW isolation is enough. In many L2 switches case, is it enough isolated?04:39
sagaraexample, management NW, storage NW isolated environment case04:40
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samPsagara: NW isolation in node means, ifdown the IF will kill all the connection and sessions04:40
samPsagara: In above, I mentioned the about the NW isolation. Ex: NW isolation = ifdown all the IFs, except IPMI04:41
samPsagara: you may choose specific IF to down, such as only Storage NW and Tenent NW, but not the Managemtn NW.04:42
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sagaraSo do we need to clarify if we are using FC-HBA host, we cannot fence VM enough. Is that right?04:43
tpatilsamP: that will surely help us to figure out how to implement this recovery action04:43
samPsagara: Ah..yes...In that case we need to do some specil thins04:43
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sagaraFC-HBA environment maybe rare than iSCSI, firstly do we take it forward without FC case, or04:46
sagaraDo we consider some general design?04:46
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samPsagara: For my understanding, problem in FC case is how to disable the port wich is highly HW dependet.04:47
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samPsagara: On the otherhad, how to disable it is a pacemaker configuration problem and not a masakri problem04:48
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sagaraI think there is two way, one is disabling the FC port, another is wait dump enough.04:48
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samPIMO, we can proceed without considering FC case. Because I can not see what can we do in masakari side for FCs04:49
samPsagara: please correct me if Im wrong04:49
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sagaraoperating FC port will be little difficult, Cinder already has FC auto zoning feature, so some FC switch can control with cinder FC switch driver code.04:51
sagaraI agree to proceed without considering FC case.04:52
samPsagara: are you proposing to cut off FC channels from the SW side?04:52
samPsagara: I was only focused in server side04:53
sagaraYes, Sampath-san said "problem in FC case is how to disable the port wich is highly HW dependet", so I understood that controlling FC switches.04:54
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samPsagara: OK..04:55
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sagaraI think controlling FC-HBA on server is also difficult04:56
samPI was mention about FC ports in the server side.04:56
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samPAnyway, I will write more detils in the etherpad for this. So, we can discuss how to proceed with this.04:57
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samPwe do not have much time... let move to AOB04:57
samP#topic AOB04:57
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rkmrHonjoIn masakari-recovery-method-customization, "Send Alert/Mail to operator", how does it send "Alert"? Logs?04:58
sagaraI don't know well that FC-HBA's device path is still alive after dump kernel start to work04:58
samPtpatil: sorry for the delay, I reply to your ( and aldo Pooja-san's) mail about summit presentaion04:58
rkmrHonjooh, sorry...04:58
tpatilsamP: Thanks04:58
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samPrkmrHonjo: operator may configure it04:58
samPsagara: path will stay alive till you kill it04:59
rkmrHonjosamP: Do operators configure drivers? e.g. logs, messaging?04:59
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samPrkmrHonjo: In my mind, this was a mistal work flow. operator does not configure the drivers05:00
sagarasamP: but login/logout mechanism just only iSCSI. FC is not.05:00
samPlest's finish05:00
rkmrHonjosamP: Thanks. I understand.05:00
samPwe are out of time05:00
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samPlest discuss this on ML or openstac-masakari05:00
samPthank you all......05:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"05:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 25 05:00:59 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)05:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-04-25-04.01.html05:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-04-25-04.01.txt05:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-04-25-04.01.log.html05:01
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chenying_#startmeeting karbor09:05
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 25 09:05:44 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is chenying_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.09:05
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:05
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:05
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'09:05
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chenying_yuval is not online.09:09
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chenying_So jupengjiao want to introduce some requirement about karbor to yuval. specially discuss the scene of file backup.09:10
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chenying_jiaopengju We could discuss your scene in the irc meeting of karbor later, waiting yuval online. What's your oppion about it?09:12
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jiaopengjuok , I agree09:12
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chenying_#topic Open Discussion09:13
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chenying_jiaopengju's topic about file backup, we will discuss it in ther irc channel later.09:14
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chenying_So do you have anything want to talk about, now is the time.09:16
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chenying_If we don't have any open discussion, I will end this meeting. If we have anything want to discuss, we could discuss it in karbor's irc meeting.09:21
chenying_Thanks, all.09:21
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:21
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 25 09:21:40 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:21
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-04-25-09.05.html09:21
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-04-25-09.05.txt09:21
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-04-25-09.05.log.html09:21
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Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 25 13:00:03 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
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yanyanhu_hi, evening13:00
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Qimingdon't know if others are joining13:01
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yanyanhu_maybe lets wait for a while for them?13:01
ruijieevening :)13:02
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yanyanhu_hi, ruijie :)13:03
Qiminglet's get started13:03
ruijiehi :)13:03
Qiming#topic pike work items13:03
*** openstack changes topic to "pike work items (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:03
Qimingevening ruijie13:03
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Qimingdon't think we have elynn today13:03
Qimingso we skip vdu topic13:04
elynnyes, you have13:04
elynnjust no update on this topic13:04
Qimingengine improvement, CLUSTER_CHECK patch looks good to me13:04
Qimingevening elynn13:04
Qimingokay, hope we can have it by the end of this cycle, :)13:05
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Qimingoh, I was wrong, XueFeng's patch needs some work13:05
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Qimingnode adopt patches are merged now13:06
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Qimingneed to work on api support, doc and test13:07
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Qimingwe will need to bump microversion of api soon13:07
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Qimingin my mind, next api microversion will include node-adopt, node-adopt-preview, service-list and some changes to cluster actions that have health_check support13:08
Qimingthe health_check parameter for scale in, patch 459090 looks good to me13:09
Qimingplease review13:09
ruijiebut for policy side, that is not easy to implement with current design13:09
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ruijieQiming, I have a question here, when check the deletion policy13:10
ruijieI found the data from region&zone policy only been used in deletion policy?13:11
Qimingso far, yes13:11
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XueFengLiuQiming, a question about cluster_check, if the node is shutoff we think it was error13:12
ruijieokay .. need to think how to interact with deletion policy13:12
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XueFengLiuthen we do_recover, the default action is  delete and create.13:13
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XueFengLiuIn fact we only need to start the node13:13
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Qimingsorry, network connection not stable13:15
Qimingall nodes that are not operational should be treated unhealthy13:15
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Qimingand, ideally, we should be able to recover them based on their current status (deleted -> recreate, crashed -> rebuild, shutdown -> start, etc.)13:16
Qimingthat makes sense?13:17
XueFengLiuthink so13:17
Qimingnext work item (just added), is about optimizing the runtime_data properties13:17
Qimingthey were designed to be a cache of DB entries, however, we are seeing some obvious overhead in using them13:18
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QimingI'm working on some patches to optimize it13:18
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XueFengLiuok, great13:18
ruijieQiming, you mean dumping data to action.outputs?13:19
Qimingfor example, a cluster's rt['nodes'] now contains only OVO version of Nodes, rather than engine Node objects13:19
ruijieoh, okay13:19
elynnWill you back port these patches back to coat?13:19
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Qimingin other words, we will have array of senlin.objects.node.Node instead of senlin.engine.node.Node13:20
Qimingit would be a little bit difficult13:20
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Qimingif there is a requirement, elynn, I can do that13:20
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QimingI can try cherry-pick though13:20
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Qimingokay for you, elynn?13:22
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Qimingmoving on13:22
Qimingrdo progress?13:22
XueFengLiuno update13:23
Qiminghealth management13:23
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Qimingwe have basic workflow (mistral) support added to Node class now13:23
lxinhuiI am drafting chart for Boston13:23
lxinhuiabout workflow13:24
lxinhuiand hope13:24
Qimingneed to revise recover operation to invoke them13:24
lxinhuirenat could provide 3-5 pages for us13:24
Qimingoh, godess is here, below the water surface13:24
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lxinhuisorry, just back home from CMCC lab13:24
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lxinhuiwe are doing R2 integration these days13:25
QimingI see.13:25
lxinhuifor the VDU13:25
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lxinhuihealth management13:25
lxinhuiis more complex than what we think before13:25
lxinhuiactually tocsa has add extention spec on this part13:26
lxinhuisuch as relationship bound with a VDU13:26
Qimingalright, any link?13:26
lxinhuiI will send out doc to all of you13:26
elynnthanks, we need to discuss about it after we read the docs.13:27
lxinhuiThe documents are latest VDU spec13:27
Qimingokay, looking forward to that13:27
Qiminglocal tempest testing fix is done, XueFeng?13:28
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Qimingrally job gets problem?13:29
yanyanhu_yes, seems so13:29
Qimingdon't understand why admin users cannot get profile object created by non-admin13:29
yanyanhu_should be caused by this patch: https://review.openstack.org/41569013:30
XueFengLiuyes, somebody mail me and I have discuss with yanyanhu_13:30
yanyanhu_it enforces the project_safe for admin user13:30
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Qimingeven an admin should have a role in a project in order to operate things there13:30
yanyanhu_so I guess we may need to find a way to address this kind of requirement13:31
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Qimingthe admin user, should login using the proper OS_PROJECT_ID13:31
yanyanhu_Qiming, I guess the project_id of an user is fixed once the user is created13:32
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Qimingno, that is the default project id13:32
yanyanhu_yes, but using other project_id rather than default one won't work I think...13:32
Qimingwhen you authenticate to keystone, you can still specify the target project id13:33
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yanyanhu_at least it didn't last time I tried it...13:33
Qimingyou have to have a role in that project13:33
yanyanhu_a while ago13:33
yanyanhu_Qiming, yes... I tried it like that, but got authentication error... not sure whether it works now13:33
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Qimingit should work13:33
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yanyanhu_oh, I tried it for trust13:34
Qimingwe only use project-scope tokens13:34
yanyanhu_maybe that is a special case13:34
Qimingtrust is different13:34
yanyanhu_for normal case, it should work13:34
Qimingand maybe it is the trust that caused the problem13:34
yanyanhu_yes, it could be13:35
QimingI'd suggest they dump the context contents and see if there are roles we can check13:35
Qimingclient functional test, no update?13:35
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Qimingmoving on13:36
Qiminglast is policy improvement13:37
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Qimingruijie any update?13:37
ruijieno progress13:37
yanyanhu_Qiming, no, I guess13:37
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Qiminganything else wrt pike work items?13:38
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Qimingguess no?13:38
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yanyanhuQiming, no I guess13:38
yanyanhusorry just dropped13:38
Qiming#topic boston summit prep13:39
*** openstack changes topic to "boston summit prep (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:39
Qiminganyone needs other's help?13:39
XueFengLiuQiming, one problem13:39
XueFengLiucreate are alarm, and make the vm high13:40
Qimingvm refused to go high? :D13:40
XueFengLiucan't get the alarm13:41
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Qimingcould be another ceilometer/aodh problem13:41
XueFengLiureference to the doc you write13:41
Qimingthen better debug aodh/ceilometer first13:42
Qimingthey change things every single day13:42
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Qiming#topic open discussion13:43
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:43
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Qiminganything else people want to discuss?13:43
yanyanhuno more from me13:44
yanyanhujust dropped again...13:44
ruijieno from me :)13:44
XueFengLiuno more13:44
Qimingalright, thanks for joining boys and girls13:44
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Qiminghave a good night13:45
XueFengLiugood night13:45
yanyanhuhave a good night :)13:45
Qimingwe can end this earlier13:45
ruijiegood night :)13:45
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:45
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 25 13:45:24 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:45
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-04-25-13.00.html13:45
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-04-25-13.00.txt13:45
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-04-25-13.00.log.html13:45
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jlibosva#startmeeting networking14:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 25 14:00:00 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jlibosva. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:00
jlibosvaHello everyone14:00
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jlibosva#topic Announcements14:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"14:00
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jlibosvaIt was an announcement that Mitaka is about to be tagged as EOL14:01
jlibosvaI haven't seen Neutron being mentioned there yet14:01
jlibosva#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-April/115308.html14:01
jlibosvadasm: you're no longer release liaison right? Do you have any clue when Neutron is gonna be cut?14:02
dasmjlibosva: no one took responsibilities from me, yet. so technically i'm still liaison.14:03
dasmjlibosva: but afair, we need to give a green light to mitaka eol14:03
jlibosvadasm: but that hasn't been proposed yet, right?14:03
dasmjlibosva: i need to sync that with release team and kevinbenton14:03
dasmi don't think so14:03
jlibosvadasm: thanks14:03
jlibosvanext one14:03
kevinbentonI think we only need to opt out14:04
kevinbentonby default we will EOL IIUC14:04
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jlibosvabut the question is when :) There is a bug that has some security impact in Mitaka (I want to talk aobut that later in bugs topic)14:05
dasmjlibosva: technically, it should already happen last week, iirc14:05
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bcafarelthe original mail mentioned 2017-04-17, so "soon"?14:06
jlibosvaso if there are any backport patches pending or bugs scheduled to mitaka, we might want to do the final release before the cut14:06
dasm" Please look over both lists by 2017-04-17 00:00 UTC"14:06
dasmjlibosva: would be good14:06
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jlibosvaok, we can talk about specifics in bugs section14:06
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jlibosvanext announcement is that our ptl wants to pay better attention to review dashboards to not let patches fall thru cracks14:07
jlibosva#link https://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/dashboards/index.html14:07
jlibosvaNext announcement: There is no Neutron CI meeting today14:08
jlibosvaLast announcement from me is that Boston summit Forum schedule is now known: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-April/115174.html14:09
jlibosva#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-April/115174.html14:09
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jlibosvathere is a pdf document attached14:09
jlibosvaanybody else has anything to announce?14:09
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kevinbentonif you're attending the summit14:09
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kevinbentonput your name on this14:10
kevinbenton#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-boston-summit-attendees14:10
kevinbentonso we can coordinate and plan a social14:10
kevinbenton#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-April/115766.html14:10
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jlibosvaoh, I also noticed this email: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-April/115723.html14:11
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jlibosvawe may need an api liaison as Henry no longer works on Neutron14:12
jlibosvamaybe a ML would be better to get one :)14:12
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jlibosvaso if nobody wants to announce something else we can move on14:12
jlibosva#topic Blueprints14:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: networking)"14:12
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jlibosvathere was this spec brought up several times https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203509/14:13
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jlibosvakevinbenton: do you remember if that bp was discussed by drivers?14:14
kevinbentonjlibosva: it wasn't14:15
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hichiharaI think that the spec needs feedbacks or +1 by OVS folks.14:15
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jlibosvakevinbenton: is it on the radar?14:15
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kevinbentonhichihara: you mean reference implmentation people?14:15
hichiharakevinbenton: and OVN14:16
yushirojlibosva, kevinbenton Hi.  I and annp works on this logging BP.14:16
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kevinbentonhichihara: ok14:16
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jlibosvaI also promised to have a look but I didn't yet14:17
jlibosvayushiro: hi :)14:17
kevinbentonyeah, i don't think anything is changing from a drivers perspective for it14:17
yushiroIn my understanding, we  decided to support OVS native firewall driver first after PTG.14:17
kevinbentonwe just need an approver14:18
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kevinbentonwe can discuss it in the drivers meeting on thursday14:18
yushirokevinbenton, aha, yes.  Rossella is now approver.  She wants to know some decision in PTG.14:19
jlibosvathat would make sense, it seems we have devs and they are blocked by processes14:19
yushirokevinbenton, this Thursday, right?14:19
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mlavalleyushiro: 2200 UTC14:20
mlavalleso maybe Friday for you14:20
yushiromlavalle, OK, thanks.  I'll join this mtg.14:21
hichiharayushiro: If you can, you should get Russell Bryant as OVN folks.14:21
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yushirohichihara, OK.  I'll reach out him later.14:21
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jlibosvaI see he's already on the reviewers' list14:21
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hichiharajlibosva: yes but he left -114:22
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jlibosvadoes anybody have any other bp that lacks attention or is blocked in any way?14:22
yushirojlibosva, Thanks for your attention :)14:22
jlibosvahichihara: ah, I see14:22
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jlibosvaif there is no other bp to be discussed, let's move on14:24
jlibosva#topic Bugs and gate failures14:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and gate failures (Meeting topic: networking)"14:24
jlibosvaI was bug deputy for the last week14:24
jlibosvawe have a critical bug that has no assignee https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/168309014:24
openstackLaunchpad bug 1683090 in neutron "test_dhcpv6_64_subnets fails with IpAddressAlreadyAllocated" [Critical,Confirmed]14:24
jlibosvait fails a tempest job on the gate14:25
jlibosvadoes anybody want to look at it?14:25
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mlavallejlibosva: I am bugs deputy this week, so I'll take a look14:27
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jlibosvamlavalle: cool, thanks. ping me if you want to collaborate14:27
jlibosvanext bug I wanted to highlight is https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/168523714:27
openstackLaunchpad bug 1685237 in neutron "port security does not block router advertisements for instances" [Undecided,New]14:27
mlavallewill do :-)14:27
jlibosvaas mentioned before, Mitaka life is going to the end and I wanted to make a decision if we want to backport fix and do release before EOL14:28
jlibosvaif the backport wouldn't be too invasive14:28
dasmif bug is security issue, we should probably try14:29
haleybjlibosva: i wonder if the RA issue is still broken in master, guessing not14:29
kevinbentonyeah, we should find out the fix14:29
jlibosvahaleyb: I did a quick look and didn't find any specific patch but could be part of other fix14:30
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haleybwe changed the icmpv6 code recently, but on mitaka it could just be a single rule was missed14:31
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* haleyb doesn't have a mitaka environment around14:31
haleybjlibosva: i can ask some more questions to narrow it down a bit14:32
jlibosvahaleyb: thanks, maybe I could spin-up a mitaka vm14:32
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jlibosvawe can talk about that on openstack-neutron after mtg14:33
haleybseeing ip6tables-save output would be a start, i'll ask14:33
haleybjlibosva: i know there's devstack instructions on older releases, been a while...14:33
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jlibosvathat's all bugs I wanted to share with the team14:34
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jlibosvamlavalle: you're the bug deputy for the next week, right?14:35
mlavallethis week14:35
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jlibosvaoh, right :)14:35
mlavalleunless you want to do double duty :-)14:35
jlibosvaso we'll need a volunteer for the week of May 114:36
kevinbentonhaleyb: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/Ice1c9dd349864da28806c5053e38ef86f43b777114:36
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haleybkevinbenton: thanks, i'll see if htey have that14:36
kevinbentonhaleyb: if they do, i'm guessing it's related to them having security groups feature disabled14:37
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kevinbentonhaleyb: not something we test14:37
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jlibosvamlavalle: doubleduty can be also possible if you're willing to :)14:38
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kevinbentonjlibosva: we can also find someone during next meeting14:39
jlibosvakevinbenton: seems like we have to14:39
jlibosvalet's move on from bug deputies then14:39
jlibosvaone thing regarding gate, we agreed on the last Neutron CI meeting that we're gonna propose functional job to the gate queue14:40
jlibosvato start broader discussion14:40
jlibosvaas it was quite stable lately, mostly copying the curve of api job14:40
jlibosvathat's about the gate14:41
jlibosva#topic Docs14:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:41
jlibosvajohn-davidge: hi, are you around ?14:41
john-davidgejlibosva: Hi!14:41
jlibosvajohn-davidge: do you want to give us updates regarding docs?14:41
john-davidgejlibosva: So, my update this week is to say that with the closing down of OSIC I will likely have to step down from my docs liason role very soon.14:42
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jlibosvaoh :( sad to hear that14:42
john-davidgeI should know for sure within the next few days. If anyone is interested in taking over then please get in touch with me and/or kevinbenton/asettle14:42
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john-davidgeDocs are fun! I promise :)14:43
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jlibosvait seems john-davidge knows what he's talking about :)14:43
jlibosvavolunteers are welcome14:44
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jlibosvajohn-davidge: thanks a lot for all the great work!14:44
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john-davidgejlibosva: Sorry for the potentially bad news, I'll hopefully know more by next week's meeting14:44
jlibosvajohn-davidge: ok, I assume you're gonna talk with kevinbenton :)14:45
jlibosvanext one14:45
jlibosva#topic Transition to OSC14:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Transition to OSC (Meeting topic: networking)"14:45
jlibosvaamotoki: hi, are you around?14:45
john-davidgejlibosva: Yes, we've already discussed it and will continue to do so14:45
amotokijlibosva: hi14:45
jlibosvaamotoki: do you have any updates from osc world?14:45
amotokibut there is no update from the past report. L3 agent and tag supports are the last place14:46
amotokiL3 agent stuff is good progress. Tag support might need more time but I think we can have it in Pike.14:47
amotokithat's all14:47
jlibosvaoh, that's good14:47
jlibosvaamotoki: thanks14:47
jlibosva#topic Neutron-lib14:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron-lib (Meeting topic: networking)"14:47
jlibosvaboden: hi, you here already?14:47
bodenjlibosva hi yes14:48
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jlibosvaboden: stage is yours :)14:48
bodenjust a few quick FYIs14:48
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bodenthe transition to neutron-lib’s callbacks is underway.. rather than digress here, I’m going to be sending a note to dev ML about it soon, so if interested please watch for the email14:49
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bodenthe other thing is there’s 2 WIP patches out for review that (a) try to solidify the notion of a service definition and (b) provide the plugin loading functionality of NeutronManager.. if anyone is interested in this topic please feel free to watch/comment on those patches (thanks kevinbenton for initial feedback)14:50
boden#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/455451/14:51
boden#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/456343/14:51
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* mlavalle adding them to my starred reviews14:51
bodenthat’s really all I have, unless others have questions/comments14:51
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jlibosvaboden: thanks for updates, no questions from me :)14:52
bodenand of course the usual: please have a peek at neutron-lib reviews when you get time :)14:52
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jlibosvaso unless there are no questions about neutron-lib we can go to open discussion14:53
jlibosva#topic Open discussion14:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: networking)"14:53
jlibosvathe release liaison was discussed on prev meeting so there is no item in On demand agenda14:53
jlibosvadoes anybody have a subject to discuss?14:53
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haleybjlibosva: i added an item this morning14:53
jlibosvaoh I didn't see14:54
openstackLaunchpad bug 1668145 in neutron "[RFE] Allow operator control of "on-link" routes for subnets in the same Neutron network" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Brian Haley (brian-haley)14:54
jlibosvahaleyb: thanks :)14:54
jlibosva#topic Control sending of on-link routes14:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Control sending of on-link routes (Meeting topic: networking)"14:54
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jlibosva#link  https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/166814514:54
haleybkevinbenton: really a question for you - i proposed changing the Network model and API instead of a config value, can we still get that into Pike if it's acceptable?14:55
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haleybhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/459492/ is the change i just sent, but just realized the RFE isn't approved, but this looks more like a bug14:56
kevinbentonwhat i don't understand is why this isn't expressed using routed networks14:56
kevinbentonif two subnets aren't on the same l2 domain, that should be reflected in the api14:56
kevinbentonand once that's there we can put the logic on the dhcp agent to only add onlink routes for things in the same l2 segment14:57
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haleybi think these are in the same L2 domain, that's why that code was added14:57
kevinbentonthen why would you want to disable onlink routes?14:57
kevinbentonas far as i understand the RFE, the segments weren't directly attached14:58
kevinbentonhaleyb: to answer your question, this feature does look simple enough to land in Pike14:58
haleybthe original code assumed they were14:58
kevinbentonbut i do want to make sure there is a use case14:59
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kevinbentonthe correct fix sounds to me like just ensuring that subnets are on the same segment14:59
kevinbentoninside of the dhcp agent14:59
kevinbentonbefore setting up onlink routes14:59
jlibosvawe're on top of the hour, can we continue the discussion on #openstack-neutron ?15:00
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jlibosvathanks everyone for joining15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 25 15:00:18 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-04-25-14.00.html15:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-04-25-14.00.txt15:00
yushirothanks. byw15:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-04-25-14.00.log.html15:00
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ralonsoh#startmeeting neutron_qos15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 25 15:00:57 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ralonsoh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_qos'15:01
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ralonsohok, let's start15:01
ralonsoh#topic RFEs15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:02
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=qos+rfe+&field.tags_combinator=ALL RFEs15:02
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/163922015:02
openstackLaunchpad bug 1639220 in neutron "[RFE] Introduce Network QoS policy "is_default" behaviour" [Low,In progress] - Assigned to Rodolfo Alonso (rodolfo-alonso-hernandez)15:02
ralonsohthis one is almost almost finished (like two weeks ago...)15:02
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ralonsohI solved the last problems and now I'm testing15:02
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ralonsohbut no more problems15:02
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ralonsohI'll ask you for reviews maybe tomorrow15:03
ralonsohnext one15:03
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/150562715:03
openstackLaunchpad bug 1505627 in neutron "[RFE] QoS Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) Support" [Wishlist,New] - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)15:03
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ralonsohreedip, is this one on hold?15:03
ralonsohthere is no progress so far, any problem with the spec?15:04
ralonsohok, I'll try to ping reedip a bit later15:04
ralonsohnext one15:05
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/159661115:05
openstackLaunchpad bug 1596611 in neutron "[RFE] Create L3 IPs with qos (rate limit)" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to LIU Yulong (dragon889)15:05
ralonsohIt's also my fault: I didn't take care of this spec15:05
ralonsohI think it could be accepted this cycle15:05
ralonsohbut it's a bit late15:05
ralonsohplease, make the effort and review this one15:06
slaweqok, I will look on it also15:06
ralonsohnext one15:06
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/163479815:06
openstackLaunchpad bug 1634798 in neutron "[RFE] Qos DSCP to vlan priority mapping" [Wishlist,Incomplete]15:06
ralonsohI'll remove this one from the next list15:06
ralonsohit's incomplete and no feedback15:06
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ralonsohnext one15:07
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/168603515:07
openstackLaunchpad bug 1686035 in neutron "More detailed reporting of available QoS rules" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Slawek Kaplonski (slaweq)15:07
ralonsohthis one is new15:07
slaweqyep, I created it today :)15:07
ralonsohabout bullet 115:07
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slaweqso basically after "improved validation" for rules was merged15:07
slaweqqos_available_rules call to neutron returns IMHO wrong data (not complete)15:07
slaweqcurrently it returns subset of rule types supported by all used drivers15:08
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ralonsohyes, that was decided, if the qos policy is not assigned to any port/net15:08
slaweqso if we have e.g. sriov and ovs drivers than minimum_bw_limit_rule will not be shown as available15:08
slaweqbecause ovs is not supporting it15:09
slaweqand IMHO this is wrong because user can apply it to ports bound with sriov driver15:09
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slaweqso IMHO it should be changed that all rules supported by at least one driver should be returned in this API call15:09
ralonsohjust the opposite15:10
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slaweqthat's my idea but maybe someone has got different idea :)15:10
ralonsohand if this rule is attached to a port/net, then check the qos policy and rules15:10
ralonsohis that correct?15:10
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slaweqwhen operator will want to attach rule (policy) to port/net validation mechanism will check if such rule is supported by this driver15:11
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slaweqand will return error if it's not supported15:11
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ralonsohthat's much better15:11
slaweqso it will be not applied15:11
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ralonsohyou are right: you can't avoid a user to create a min rule only because you have LB and SRIOV15:11
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ralonsohfor example15:12
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ralonsohbecause you want to assign this qos policy/rule to LB15:12
slaweqin fact it's not avaided but now it's not reported to user that he can use it15:12
slaweqnow even if rule is not returned as available You still can create it15:12
ralonsohok, perfect15:13
ralonsohand the second part15:13
ralonsohgive more information15:13
ralonsohrules and parameters15:13
slaweqthe second part is something what yamamoto pointed in review for ingress bw limit patch15:13
ralonsohyes, I saw this15:13
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slaweqhe asked how user can discover via API that something like "ingress" direction is available in his cloud15:14
ralonsohI think we need to expand rule_types15:14
slaweqso IMHO we can provide new API call to show users details about what rule types are available for what drivers and with which parameters15:14
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ralonsohyes: rule types, driver and parameters, the whole pack!15:15
slaweqI don't want to change response for existing API call because that would be very hard to do15:15
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slaweqralonsoh: exactly :)15:15
ralonsohyou mean to create a new API call, not to expand rule_types?15:15
slaweqyep, because probably it will be very hard to get merged such change of existing API call (compatibility, no microversioning, etc.)15:16
ralonsohok, we can discuss this later15:16
ralonsohthe second part15:16
slaweqbut if You think differently, we can try to expand existing call15:17
ralonsohok, if we need to talk a bit more, we can use neutron channel for this rfe15:17
ralonsohlet's go to bugs15:17
ralonsoh#topic Bugs15:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:17
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/168336515:18
openstackLaunchpad bug 1683365 in neutron "test_rule_update_forbidden_for_regular_tenants_own_policy fails with NotFound" [Medium,Confirmed]15:18
ralonsohI'm testing this one and reviewing the logs15:18
ralonsohI can't find the problem...15:18
ralonsohI need to talk to Ihar15:18
slaweqif You want some help, I can check it also15:19
ralonsohI'll ping you15:19
ralonsohbecause I'm having some troubles with that15:19
ralonsohI need a bit of time15:19
ralonsohnext one15:19
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/167687715:19
openstackLaunchpad bug 1676877 in neutron "Increase "TestQosPlugin.test_update_policy_rule" coverage" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)15:19
ralonsohI'll talk to reedip later, he's busy now15:20
ralonsohnext one15:20
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/166713815:20
openstackLaunchpad bug 1667138 in neutron "Minumum bandwidth can be higher than maximum bandwidth limit in same QoS policy" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)15:20
ralonsohthe same15:20
ralonsohnext one15:20
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/165738115:20
openstackLaunchpad bug 1657381 in neutron "QoS drivers need to implement a precommit for the actions" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Rodolfo Alonso (rodolfo-alonso-hernandez)15:20
mlavalleralonsoh: he is benn making progress on that one15:20
mlavalleI've looked at the patchset several times15:21
ralonsohwhich one?15:21
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ralonsohyes, I've seen it15:21
ralonsoh1667138 is almost finish15:21
mlavalleI think so15:22
ralonsohjust the last sprint, but now he is a bit busy15:22
mlavallethe latest comments have been on the unit tests15:22
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ralonsohyes, small problems in the qos_plugin15:22
ralonsohbut I don't think there is any problem in this patch15:23
ralonsoh1657381: this is ajo's patch15:23
ralonsohI took care of it, I submitted the last commit 30 mins ago15:23
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ralonsohIf you have time... reviews will be appreciated15:24
mlavalleralonsoh: yeah I saw that you pushed a review yesterday15:24
slaweqok, I will check15:24
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mlavallehadn't seen the latest one15:24
mlavalleI am keeping an eye on it15:24
mlavallewill review again15:25
ralonsohlast ones, related to #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/156096115:25
openstackLaunchpad bug 1560961 in neutron "[RFE] Allow instance-ingress bandwidth limiting" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Slawek Kaplonski (slaweq)15:25
ralonsohAPI: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/449831/15:25
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ralonsohOVS: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/457816/15:25
slaweqthis one is almost done (I hope)15:25
slaweqand OVS is also ready to review I thing15:25
ralonsohyes, api is almost done (fast work!!!)15:25
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ralonsohovs: I have this in my TODO list15:26
slaweqI will now start also working on Linuxbridge15:26
ralonsohadd us as reviewers15:26
ralonsohI need to check OVS today15:26
slaweqok, I will add all of You15:26
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ralonsohnext topic15:27
ralonsoh#topic Other Changes15:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Other Changes (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:27
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ralonsohI moved the spec #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/157898915:27
openstackLaunchpad bug 1578989 in neutron "[RFE] Strict minimum bandwidth support (egress)" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Rodolfo Alonso (rodolfo-alonso-hernandez)15:27
ralonsohto this section15:27
ralonsohmlavalle, how is the API to Nova going?15:28
mlavalleralonsoh: I've made some slow progress15:28
mlavalleI will be teaching a class during summit15:28
mlavalleso preparing my presentation15:28
ralonsohI know15:28
mlavallewill get faster after summit15:28
ralonsohgood luck with this15:28
ralonsohok, we will talk after the summit15:29
ralonsohI think this feature will be delayed to the next cycle15:29
ralonsohbut it's ok15:29
mlavalleyeah but even in that scenario I want to make progress as fast as I can15:29
ralonsohfor sure, and I'll help with that15:29
mlavallethat way we provide feedback to the nova team15:30
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mlavallewhich is really our critical path15:30
ralonsohyes, I know15:30
ralonsohis very difficult to make Nova changes....15:30
ralonsohperfect, next section15:31
ralonsoh#topic Open Discussion15:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:31
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ralonsohI have nothing in the agenda15:31
ralonsohfor this section15:31
ralonsohEnjoy your preps for the summit!15:31
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hichihararalonsoh: I have a question15:32
ralonsohplease, hichihara15:32
hichihararalonsoh: Any updates about LB and OVS of minimum bandwitdh?15:32
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ralonsohno: I abandoned the LB implementation, because it requires a unique QoS class for all the traffic in the ibt-br15:33
ralonsohthat means a performance hit15:33
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ralonsohalso if you have several VLANs in LB, you'll have several LBs15:34
ralonsohthe architecture is quite complex15:34
ralonsohand I don't see a method to implement it15:34
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ralonsohand for OVS, after 9 months trying to deliver it, I abandoned the patch15:35
hichihararalonsoh: You mean that we can get SR-IOV only about minimum bandwidth?15:35
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ralonsohnow that's correct15:35
slaweqralonsoh: to be clear, complex implementation is for OVS or LB?15:35
ralonsohdo you have a possible architecture for LB or OVS for min-bw?15:36
slaweqbecause in LB there is no int-br AFAIK15:36
ralonsohslaweq, yes15:36
hichihararalonsoh: It's possible for me15:36
ralonsohslaweq, yes, there is no bridge15:36
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ralonsohthere is a bridge per VLAN15:36
ralonsohhichihara, which backend?15:36
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hichihararalonsoh: both15:37
ralonsohhichihara, BTW, I submitted several patches during the last year with no feedback15:37
ralonsohfor LB, how are you planning to do this?15:37
hichihararalonsoh: I thought you want to propose document to clear the coomplex implementations...15:38
ralonsohhichihara, yes. But just in a couple of lines: how are you going to implement min-bw in LB?15:39
hichihararalonsoh: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415144/ This is for OVS but I guess that we can use the tc_lib implementation for linuxbridge15:39
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ralonsohhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/415144/: this one is only for tunnel traffic (what you need, I now), and doesn't work with user space OVS15:41
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hichiharaActually the implementation executes TC to linux interface.15:41
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ralonsohof course, is a valid implementation, but with limitations15:41
hichihararalonsoh: We must implement into user space OVS?15:41
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ralonsohI now, you are using TC in the interface15:42
ralonsohhichihara, what do you mean?15:42
hichihararalonsoh: yes because OVS doesn't support minimum bandwidth QoS15:42
ralonsohit does15:43
ralonsohOVS uses the same scheduler as TC15:43
ralonsohin fact, kernel OVS calls TC to setup it15:43
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ralonsohok, last quick question15:44
hichihararalonsoh: I didn't know... Could you tell me the point?15:44
hichihararalonsoh: I thought OVS support limit rule only15:44
davidshahichihara: htb has a min_bw feature as well I believe15:45
ralonsohif you implement the QoS rules using only the OVS interface, you won't have problems with other OVS implementations15:45
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ralonsohe.g., user space OVS15:45
ralonsohthat's other discussion15:46
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ralonsohLB implementation?15:46
mlavalleralonsoh: I have a couple of things I want to share with the team, but I am multi-tasking. When you are done with this discussion, please ping me15:46
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ralonsohmlavalle, ok15:46
ralonsohhichihara, LB implementation? how are you planning to implement it?15:46
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ralonsohdavidsha, you are right, because OVS uses TC scheduler15:47
hichihararalonsoh: I just guessed that we may use above my patch. I'm not sure.15:48
hichihara^^^ may be able to use15:48
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hichiharaActually I considered OVS only15:48
ralonsohI spent 6 months in a LB implementation (buggy, not working as you know)15:49
ralonsohFirst it's better if you share in a small document how are you planning to do this15:49
ralonsohthis is the best way to avoid working for nothing (like me)15:49
hichihararalonsoh: I think so.15:50
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ralonsohQoS group is on fire!!15:50
hichihararalonsoh: I'll consider it again. Thanks15:50
ralonsohmlavalle, how are you sir?15:50
slaweqralonsoh: :D15:50
mlavalleralonsoh, slaweq: this blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/instance-ingress-bw-limit15:51
mlavallewas discussed briefly during the last Neutron drivers meeting, this past Thursday15:51
mlavallekevinbenton mentioned that he would like it to merge this cycle15:51
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slaweqpatches for API and openvswitch are in review15:52
ralonsohslaweq has the API working15:52
mlavalleI know15:52
ralonsohI'll help with OVS right now15:52
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mlavalleJust wanted you to knopw to be aware of that conversation15:52
ralonsohbtw, SRIOV so far it's not possible15:52
slaweqmlavalle: and I also want it to be merged :)15:52
ralonsohit's cool to know there is interest in that15:53
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mlavalleLast thing is next meeting will be during the Summit week, so I won't attend15:53
ralonsohno problem15:53
mlavallethat's it. Thanks!15:53
slaweqthx mlavalle for info15:53
ralonsohslaweq, the future of QoS depends on you!!!15:53
mlavalleit does15:54
slaweqralonsoh: ok :)15:54
mlavalleno pressure!15:54
slaweqI will do my best15:54
slaweqmlavalle: of course :P15:54
ralonsohok, guys, thank you very much15:54
ralonsohI'll end the meeting15:54
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 25 15:55:05 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2017/neutron_qos.2017-04-25-15.00.html15:55
ralonsohsee you!15:55
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2017/neutron_qos.2017-04-25-15.00.txt15:55
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2017/neutron_qos.2017-04-25-15.00.log.html15:55
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lbragstad#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 25 18:00:19 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
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lbragstadping antwash, ayoung, breton, cmurphy, dstanek, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, notmorgan, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, samueldmq, spilla18:00
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:00
lbragstadagenda ^18:00
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lbragstadwe'll give it a minute for some others to show up18:01
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lbragstad#topic mascot18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "mascot (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
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lbragstadbased on feedback from a couple developers18:03
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lbragstadthe foundation did another revision of the mascot18:03
lbragstad#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-April/115869.html18:03
lbragstadnow we need to decide whether or not we want to stick with the original or formally adopt the new on18:04
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rodrigodsi like the first one18:04
dstanekdoes he have a name?18:04
henrynash(slinks in the back door)18:04
dstanek"roadkill turtle"18:04
samueldmqhenrynash: o/18:04
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lbragstadok - maybe a better question is do we want to adopt either of the new revisions or do we want to stick with the original?18:05
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samueldmqwell, we do have an original version18:05
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samueldmqand newer version doesn't look that different18:06
rodrigodslbragstad, do you have the original version handy?18:06
samueldmqsome may like, some may not, we don't want to bikeshed I think :-)18:06
lbragstadno - the original version shaped the shell like a shield, which i thought was kinda cool, and that carried over to this version18:06
samueldmqbut a voting could be fair maybe18:06
henrynashI’m ok with the one with the key in his shell (despite possibility of being had up for injury to protected species)18:06
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lbragstadshould we just vote?18:07
gagehugoI like both of the revisions, I'm fine with either18:07
edmondswlbragstad I like either of the new ones better than the original18:07
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rodrigods+1 to just vote18:07
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henrynashvote! Oh Yes, like in teh UK we need anouther vote18:07
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dstaneki like them all equally. happy with any of them.18:07
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lbragstad#startvote should we adopt the new mascot with a key18:08
openstackUnable to parse vote topic and options.18:08
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knikollao/ i'm late18:08
dstaneklbragstad: you have to give it the answers you expect18:08
lbragstadwhat in the world is the syntax?18:08
cmurphy#help startvote18:08
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henrynash#vote we pick a new voting bot technolgy18:09
cmurphylbragstad: https://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/irc.html#voting18:09
lbragstad#startvote should we adopt the new mascot with a key in the shell? Yes, No18:10
openstackBegin voting on: should we adopt the new mascot with a key in the shell? Valid vote options are Yes, No.18:10
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.18:10
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henrynash#vote yes18:10
edmondsw#vote Yes18:10
rodrigods#vote yes18:10
cmurphy#vote Yes18:10
ayounghold on, still looking...18:10
hrybacki#vote Yes18:10
spilla#vote Yes18:10
lamt#vote Yes18:10
dstanek#vote sure, why not18:10
openstackdstanek: sure, why not is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No.18:10
henrynashayoung: the alternative is one with a dancing ardvark and a martini18:10
lbragstadooo i want *that* one18:11
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dstanek#vote yes18:11
lbragstad#vote yes18:11
ayounghenrynash, I'm not looking to disparage the artist, but my silly "Here's Stoney" looks better than both of them18:11
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knikolla#vote no18:11
ayoung#vote Noneoftheabove18:12
openstackayoung: Noneoftheabove is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No.18:12
gagehugo#vote Yes18:12
ayoung#vote Sure Why Not18:12
openstackayoung: Sure Why Not is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No.18:12
ayoung#vote yes18:12
breton#vote yes18:12
lbragstadanyone else?18:13
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samueldmq#vote no18:13
openstackVoted on "should we adopt the new mascot with a key in the shell?" Results are18:13
openstackYes (12): rodrigods, spilla, dstanek, ayoung, edmondsw, gagehugo, hrybacki, cmurphy, lamt, lbragstad, henrynash, breton18:13
openstackNo (2): samueldmq, knikolla18:13
lbragstadsamueldmq knikolla is there something you'd like to see changed about the mascot?18:13
samueldmqlbragstad: actually I like one of the new versions. the one with the small key, not the big one18:14
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ayoungYou all mean keyhole, right?18:14
knikollalbragstad: well, the keystone is called keystone because it holds everything. the keyhole is redundant.18:15
ayoungI was voting to change the keyhole to a key18:15
lbragstadit seems most folks are fine with the new version18:16
lbragstadwe should update the ML thread if there are specific changes you'd like to see made18:16
ayoungI still think it should reference a bridge18:17
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lbragstadotherwise it would be nice to firm this up with the foundation so that it doesn't change again18:17
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ayoungwith a keystone in the shell.  Not just a keyhole18:17
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lbragstadat a certain point, i think we're going to start trying to incorporate too many things18:17
knikollaayoung: rather than e revision, that's a complete redesign. but i agree on the keystone.18:17
samueldmqwe should include all the other mascots in the shell18:18
ayoungknikolla, well, I mean, if they actually asked the TEAM that the mascot represents they would have known that18:18
lbragstadwell - do be fair, they did18:18
ayoungsamueldmq, or stack a bunch of turtles on on top of another....18:18
lbragstadthey asked us what we wanted and we said a "turtle"18:18
ayounglbragstad, and then ignored us outright?18:18
lbragstadwe provided no further details18:19
samueldmqI like that recursivity18:19
ayounglbragstad, yes I did18:19
ayoungI did two POCs which I just linked18:19
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lbragstadayoung did you communicate those to the Foundation?18:19
ayoungLets move on18:20
lbragstadi'll leave the thread open for a week to gather feedback18:20
lbragstad#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-April/115869.html18:20
lbragstadthen i'll send out a poll to vote on the versions18:20
lbragstadif we don't have feedback18:20
lbragstad#topic open discussion18:21
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:21
lbragstaddoes anyone have questions on the specs?18:21
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lbragstadsamueldmq you had questions about stuff proposed to Pike?18:23
samueldmqlbragstad: yes I did18:23
lbragstadsamueldmq go for it18:23
samueldmqI wanted to check the team is in sync with our goals to Pike18:23
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lbragstadthis is what we've accepted for Pike so far - http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/18:23
lbragstad#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/18:23
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lbragstadi think gagehugo's spec for project tags is ready, i need to give it another review though18:24
samueldmqlbragstad: so "Extend user API to support federated attributes" is basically the only one that has been accepted but not implemented correct?18:24
lbragstadsamueldmq there were patches in review but they didn't land18:24
lbragstadpolicy-in-code is done and policy-docs is almost done18:24
samueldmqlbragstad: ok, but from the not-yet-approved specs18:25
samueldmqwhat aer we targetting?18:25
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lbragstadi would say18:25
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/431785/18:25
lbragstadand we need eyes on18:25
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/455709/18:25
lbragstadfor sure18:25
samueldmqlbragstad: nice18:26
samueldmqlbragstad: that was basically my question18:26
lbragstadi would expect those to get into Pike for sure, but I also think a lot of stuff is in limbo because of recent OSIC layoffs18:26
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gagehugolbragstad: I think a couple security people were going to look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447139/ some time this week if they get the chance18:27
samueldmqlbragstad: exactly, that's why I am asking too18:27
bretonwe need to do something with the trusts issue18:27
lbragstadgagehugo awesome18:27
samueldmqto check if we needed to re-scope or something18:27
bretonthe spec i proposed was -1d and no alternative was proposed18:27
samueldmqjust to make sure we keep moving18:27
dstanekbreton: which spec?18:28
lbragstadsamueldmq i expect the recent events to cause hiccups, but i'm not sure what the ramifications will be until more dust settles18:28
bretondstanek: ^18:28
lbragstadbreton the immediate alternative from what I remember was to document things better18:29
samueldmqlbragstad: ++ and to be honest, keystone has been suffering a lot with cuts lately. specially cores18:29
lbragstadwhich should be done anyway18:29
samueldmqI just want to help in any ways I can18:29
lbragstadsamueldmq right now that'd probably be spec reviews and policy documentation reviews :)18:29
samueldmqlbragstad: nice! ah, and we will probably Outreachy have intern (s) this year again18:30
bretonlbragstad: sahara and other folks are still not happy :(18:30
samueldmqfrom May-August iirdc18:30
rodrigods2, actually18:30
rodrigods2 interns18:30
samueldmqrodrigods: yes, I've written intern(s) as I was not sure yours wass in keystone too, thanks18:31
rodrigodssamueldmq, cool18:31
rodrigodsthe project i'm mentoring is the same for the last round18:31
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samueldmqlbragstad: alright, I think we can start from those and keep moving :)18:33
lbragstadbreton yeah - from what i remember we didn't leave that session with a silver bullet,18:33
lbragstadbreton but we did agree to improving the documentation as a first step18:33
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rodrigodsregarding docs: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/keystone+branch:master+topic:tests_development_docs18:35
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samueldmqayoung has a couple of things too18:37
ayoungI do?18:37
samueldmqayoung: what's the state of your policy in middleware proposals? just in need ofr reviews?18:37
knikollarodrigods: fyi i had started to write https://review.openstack.org/#/c/448773/ which aimed to be a more comprehensive overview18:37
ayoungsamueldmq, being actively worked on by knikolla18:37
samueldmqI remember teher were discussions on whether to pursue with that18:37
ayoungI have other things though18:37
samueldmqvs what's going on in policy-in-code, how we align with that, and so on18:37
rodrigodsknikolla, awesome18:38
rodrigodsdo you think we should merge them?18:38
samueldmqayoung: nice18:38
ayoungsamueldmq, at this point, I've given up on matching efforts to releases18:38
knikollarodrigods: i'll have a look at what you have and we can sync up18:38
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ayoungWe'll just write stuff and when enough people complain about Keystone not having feature X it will get merged18:38
knikollarodrigods: make sure we aren't repeating ourselves18:38
ayoungor it won'18:38
rodrigodsknikolla, mine is more on "writing" the tests18:38
dstanekknikolla: very nice. what's left to get it out of wip?18:38
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* samueldmq nods18:39
knikolladstanek: for role-check-in-middleware?18:39
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knikollaor the docs for testing18:39
dstanekknikolla: no, your test doc18:39
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knikolladstanek: mainly time to write it.18:40
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knikolladstanek: i'm quite busy this week with the rbac patches.18:40
knikolladstanek: i wanna get it done by the end of next week. for the onboarding and training stuff.18:40
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samueldmqknikolla: rbac patches?18:41
ayoungRBAC in middleware18:41
ayoungsamueldmq, we are still presenting on it at the summit18:41
samueldmqayoung: knikolla kk18:41
ayoungso please merge it for Pike18:41
samueldmqmy main concerns on that was that we must have a plan on where we converge with the other efforts going on cross-project right now18:42
ayoungsamueldmq, no18:42
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ayoungsamueldmq, we merge it and tell them18:42
ayoungthis is what keystone does18:42
samueldmqand don't care about cross-project then?18:42
ayoungwe don't try to solve vm stuff for Nova18:42
ayoungRBAC is what Keystone does18:43
samueldmqI mean we should be solving things for OpenStack not just keystone, or just nova18:43
lbragstadsure - but in practice that's actually not the case18:43
samueldmqwhen I say cross-project I mean all projects nto just nova18:43
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ayoungIn practice we shout an the world ignores us and then Nova goes and does its own things and everything stays broken18:43
ayoungThis can be done without breaking anyone, and without other projects input18:44
lbragstadso continuing that pattern doesn't make sense18:44
ayoungand it is optional, so it does not break anything18:44
ayoungand it solves a lot of problems and people will be happy18:44
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samueldmqso this way it doesn't look we're all part of the same ecosystem and part of a single big project: openstack18:44
ayoungand there will be peace throughout the realm18:44
samueldmqit'll just be a bunch of projects that can be put together18:44
ayoungopenstack is Keystone and a bunch of services in the catalog18:44
samueldmqif we can't even agree in a solution for a common issue18:45
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ayoungin order to agree you have to spend time actually researching the issue18:45
ayoungso far, its been us and johnthetubaguy18:45
samueldmqayoung: yes and there is a policy meeting18:45
ayoungsamueldmq, and that has been us and johnthetubaguy18:45
samueldmqit's cross-project, if just nova shows up, let's work with them18:46
samueldmqok so let's work with him and catch more folks as we make progress18:46
samueldmqwe're all making progress this time as I see18:46
samueldmqanyways, I still think cross-project is the right way to go18:47
ayoungOr we could just merge my spec, accept my patches, and actually have a solution18:47
samueldmqis it hard? yes, of course.18:47
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ayoungits not happening18:47
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ayoungsamueldmq, I cannot spend years working on this any more18:47
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ayoungthere were cross project meetings18:47
ayoungit was us and johnthetubaguy18:47
ayoungno one cares18:47
ayounglets just fix it18:47
samueldmqayoung: I am okay with your solution, I just want to make sure we're all converging to the same place at the end18:48
samueldmqotherwise it doesn't make sense to me18:48
samueldmqanyways I think this can be discussed in the next policy meeting18:48
ayoungsamueldmq, no one else is really trying to solve this problem18:48
samueldmqlbragstad: they're still happening correct? the policy meetings?18:48
ayoungevery now and againm, some one pops up and realizes there is a problem18:49
samueldmqthere was an email proposing them to happen montly iirc18:49
ayoungusually around read-only roles18:49
ayoungpolicy meetings have been weekly18:49
lbragstadsamueldmq that was the horizon meeting, not the policy one18:49
samueldmqok I am sorry18:49
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samueldmqlbragstad: which day in the week? can you just put here again as a reminder?18:49
samueldmqI'll put my point in the meeting agenda18:50
lbragstad#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Keystone_Policy_Meeting18:50
ayoungsamueldmq, I spent 2 hours doing a video conference on this last week to the policy meeting folks18:50
samueldmqayoung: how did it go? the last meeting18:50
ayoungsamueldmq, I think I talked over everyone and berated them into silence.  As usual18:51
ayoungSo...here is my challenge18:51
dstaneksamueldmq: i think i have a better understanding of the overall direction. i still don't like the URL approach, but i don't think that'll change18:51
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samueldmqdstanek: nice18:52
ayoungRead the spec.  Understand it.  If you cannot come up with a better approach, or do not find a fatal flaw in it, support it on through.  Please.18:52
ayoungdstanek, its the worst18:52
ayoungexpect that there is no alternative18:52
samueldmqayoung: I'll read it again18:52
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ayoungsamueldmq, you coming to Boston?18:52
samueldmqI do have some concerns, let's talk about it a bit more in the meeting tomorrow18:52
samueldmqayoung: yes I am18:52
ayoungsamueldmq, then come to the talk, and the policy session18:52
dstanekayoung: is it impossible to the the same text we use in policy today? like 'identity:do_the_thing'18:53
ayoungI acutally used a lot of the feedback from last week to try and make sure I addressed the most common problems18:53
edmondswat the end of the day, the middleware approach still requires cross-project buy-in. It can only restrict things beyond what each project's policy.json restricts, so in order to use the middleware and add a role, for instance, you also need to edit policy.json files18:53
ayoungdstanek, need a way to map that to  the operation the user wishes to perform18:53
samueldmqdstanek: I guess we'd need to put the mapping URL->text somewhere in the middleware then18:53
lbragstadedmondsw ++18:53
edmondswso I'm leery of forcing that in without some kind of agreement cross-projetc18:53
ayoungedmondsw, not by default18:53
lbragstadayoung the projects already handle that mapping18:53
lbragstadi'm hesitant to duplicate it18:53
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ayounglbragstad, no no no they don't18:54
ayounglbragstad, the only way it can be deduced is by reading code18:54
edmondswat the end of the day, if nova tells people not to use the middleware, it's not going to get used.18:54
ayoungand it is different in every project18:54
ayoungedmondsw, they won'18:54
lbragstadayoung  so how does nova translate POST /v2/servers/ to compute:server_boot18:54
samueldmqedmondsw: that's exactly my point. and I want to see, in the big picture, we're all working with the same goal, walking to the same point.18:54
ayoungedmondsw, at the end of the day, if Tripleo tells people to use the middleware, they will18:54
ayounglbragstad, deep in code18:55
dstanekayoung: samueldmq: ++18:55
lbragstadnova does that - it's in the code,18:55
ayoungI'd have to look to find exactly that one18:55
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dstanekwe already do it today18:55
ayounglbragstad, its kindof like how keystone does it, based on the Python function name18:55
lbragstadwe're duplicating it by adding an API to keystone (that will live for the lifetime of v3)18:55
ayounglook, policy.json needs to go away18:55
ayoungit will linger18:55
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ayoung but it is not a good tool for RBAC18:56
ayoungand it is not used for RBAC today18:56
ayoungURLs are the object refences of the Weeb18:56
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ayoungnot compute:some_operation18:56
ayoungURLs are the commited API of OpenStack18:56
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ayoungnot identity:create_user18:56
ayoungthey are going to call the Web API18:57
ayoungVERB + URL + BODY18:57
ayoungthe python client can work with that18:57
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ayoungThe policy.json approach will stay around for the one-offs, and for transition.  I don't see it as something we really want to put any more effort in it18:58
ayoungin to?18:58
samueldmqayoung: I agree, the thing is how we get to that assuming that we have legacy code18:58
ayoungsamueldmq, all laid out18:58
samueldmqand from the way we have been doing things18:58
ayoungthe RBAC in middleware change goes in with 0 json changes18:58
samueldmqayoung: does the middleware approach replaces .json?18:59
samueldmqthere can't be complex rules anymore, where there is a combination of role/context, for example18:59
ayoungsamueldmq, not at first, for, say keystone18:59
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ayoungfor Nova, you don;'t need a .json file anywauy18:59
samueldmqI am not saying this is the ideal, but this is what we have/allow today18:59
ayoungso there, you would use the middleware approach to do RBAC on top of Nova18:59
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samueldmqayoung: let's continue in -keystone?19:00
ayoungsamueldmq, if people want to continue to do complext policy, let them19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 25 19:00:08 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-04-25-18.00.html19:00
ayoungat least for now19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-04-25-18.00.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-04-25-18.00.log.html19:00
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fungiinfra team virtual group hug time!19:00
fungithis week we have action items assigned to and topics proposed by hwoarang, odyssey4me, mordred19:00
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fungiand fungi, clarkb and pabelanger19:00
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 25 19:02:46 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
fungi#topic Announcements19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
fungi#info Let fungi know if you hope to attend the PTG in Denver this September so he can get a rough head count19:03
fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:03
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-04-18-19.02.html Minutes from last meeting19:03
fungi#action fungi put forth proposal to flatten git namespaces19:03
fungistill drafting a spec locally based on ttx's brainstorming etherpad19:03
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/repo-name-shortening-impact Impact of shortening repository names19:03
fungithis has finally bubbled to the top of my to-do backlog at least19:03
fungi#action pabelanger Open an Ubuntu SRU for bug 125149519:03
openstackbug 1251495 in mailman (Ubuntu Trusty) "Lists with topics enabled can throw unexpected keyword argument 'Delete' exception." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/125149519:03
fungii checked the bug a few minutes ago so assuming this is still outstanding19:03
pabelangerstill ongoing, sadly19:04
fungi#action clarkb to add citycloud to nodepool19:04
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/458621 Update citycloud to non demo accounts19:04
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/458622 Add citycloud to nodepool19:04
fungithese are presumably wip until we know what regions we'll be using and confirm appropriate quota19:04
clarkbI don't want to bug them but maybe I should19:05
fungi#topic Specs approval19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
fungiwe don't seem to have anything new up this week19:05
fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
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funginothing called out specifically here19:05
fungi#topic New propose job for OpenStack Ansible (hwoarang, odyssey4me)19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "New propose job for OpenStack Ansible (hwoarang, odyssey4me) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/453130 Add 'propose' job for openstack-ansible-tests19:05
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fungiper the agenda, "Need to either agree to do it or reject it and proceed with manual syncing instead"19:05
fungiconcerns raised are the usual outlined in our reviewing documentation19:05
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fungi#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/REVIEWING.rst?id=291daea#n51 Reviewing project-config: Proposal jobs19:05
fungithe stated use case seems similar to this change which we approved a year ago:19:05
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/301375 Implement periodic job to update Puppet OpenStack constraints19:05
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pabelangerIt might be worth reaching out to openstack puppet team, since they last did this and quickly revert it19:06
fungiwell, they reverted the delorean proposal job, right?19:06
pabelangerIIRC, they got tired of +3 automated patches19:06
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pabelangernot delorean, but job promotion things19:07
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fungiahh, i assumed "dlrn" was delorean19:07
fungisomething else then, i guess19:07
pabelangerBut, no objection from me, if they want to give it a go19:08
fungithe propose-puppet-openstack-constraints job seems to still be in place anyway19:08
fungiyeah, still in the periodic pipeline for openstack/puppet-openstack-integration19:08
pabelangerodd, maybe I'm thinking of some other one.19:09
pabelangerI'll dive into in more later19:09
fungithey removed their dlrn promotion proposal job19:09
fungisaw that in our git history when researching this current request19:09
pabelangerk, that must have been it19:09
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fungiran successfully today for example:19:10
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fungi#link http://logs.openstack.org/periodic/propose-puppet-openstack-constraints/0595ba5/console.html19:10
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fungihwoarang and odyssey4me don't seem to be present to discuss this, but does anyone disagree with the basic idea of 453130 anyway?19:12
hwoarangI am around19:12
fungiahh, cool19:12
hwoarangI am happy either way. A job is convenient but we can also do it with a script19:13
clarkbcould we maybe make them a python module and consume them that way?19:13
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fungisome things like the shared bindep.txt file may be hard to cover that way19:14
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fungii guess it's a question of how much of the things which change frequently can be covered by a shared dependency, and whether what's left changes often enough to benefit from automated consistency19:15
hwoarangThey don't change often to be fair19:15
hwoarangSince they are only used for manual testings19:15
hwoarangNot for the gates19:16
hwoarangApart from bindep.txt19:16
ianwpersonally, we've had the devstack plugin doc proposal job for a while ... workflow seems to be fine, even though yes it could be done other ways.  the bindep bit seems most convincing to me19:16
hwoarangWhich should change once in a blue moon19:16
fungiit's always possible to make a different builder macro to use a shared bindep.txt from some central repository you maintain too19:16
fungiand if zuul-cloner's checking that out, you can reliably use depends-on relationships when changing it too19:17
ianwfungi: i feel like the bindep in the source tree should be the one ... otherwise aren't we making it quite hard for externals?19:17
hwoarangBut we also need to consider local testing19:17
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hwoarangWe need to have a current bindep in place without depending on another repo19:18
fungiwe had a similar discussion about the ~90 puppet module repos the infra team maintains, and decided to just stick with a shared gem as a dependency for the things we could cover that way and manually handle everything else on the rare occasion we need to change it19:18
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clarkbright thats why I'm wondering if something like pypi package would be good19:19
ianwgem, or a requirements.txt addition seems a bit different, since that's already a "go and grab it" type situation19:19
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ianwmaybe if bindep had a "include from http" method ...19:19
fungii'm not opposed to bindep including remote references, though that is a fair amount of added complexity and error handling19:20
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pabelangeransible should be learning about bindep shortly: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/2215919:21
pabelangerso, it wouldn't be hard to write a playbook to fetch bindep.txt file first19:21
fungiso from my perspective, i'm not opposed to the requested job... but it is very easy to rely on automated code duplication for things where having actual shared dependencies is more appropriate, so have to make sure to avoid that temptation19:22
fungiit doesn't seem like it would be proposing new changes particularly often, so likely don't need to worry about the reviewer fatigue downside anyway19:23
hwoarangYes i want to make sure all changes are in before the job is in place so we know only have one big round of reviews and that's it19:24
hwoarangSorry typing from phone19:25
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fungicurrent list of files it's syncing are run_tests.sh, bindep.txt and Vagrantfile19:26
fungiwhich presumably are all similarly hard to cover with a python dep19:26
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clarkbya, they don't slot in directly19:27
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fungii'm inclined to approve it once the issue AJaeger has identified is corrected19:28
fungiAJaeger: any opinion on this since you've been the most engaged reviewer on that change?19:28
hwoarangso what we want to solve here is the vagrant bit19:28
hwoarangwe expect users and devs to simply do 'vagrant up' and start the testsuite19:28
AJaegerfungi: I'm fine with taking it19:28
ianwi am also happy, per comment; modulo AJaeger's review19:29
fungiokay, cool. i feel like we've done some thorough diligence discussing it19:29
hwoarangfor what we need Vagrantfile and run_tests.sh in the repo. Otherwise the user will have to fetch these files from omewhere else19:29
fungi#agreed The use case for the "propose-openstack-ansible-tests-scripts" job put forth in change 453130 is sufficiently justified19:30
fungithanks for bringing this one to the meeting hwoarang!19:30
fungi#topic What to do about debs for vhd-util and bubblewrap (mordred)19:31
*** openstack changes topic to "What to do about debs for vhd-util and bubblewrap (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:31
hwoarangthank you for all the discussion around it.19:31
fungiper the agenda, "PPAs on Launchpad seem to be sad, as does the backports process currently"19:31
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mordredso - according to SpamapS there is a dearth of humans processing the backports queue19:31
jeblairi don't know that i have what it takes to make them happy.19:31
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* jeblair tries balloon animals19:32
mordredthis is the normal way we'd consume bubblewrap on xenial19:32
fungithere's of course the filthy option of building these and sticking them in a directory on tarballs.o.o by hand. not that i'm advocating for such a thing19:32
fungibut there's probably an acceptable middle ground between ubuntu ppa and that19:32
clarkbright so my idea for middle ground was to use nix19:33
clarkbwe might have to make a nix package but then it would theoretically be useable on centos/fedora/ubuntu/gentoo/whatever19:33
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ianwfungi: not sure that's all that filthy ... since all the building is logged and repeatable.  afs kernel modules for example19:33
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SpamapSmordred: I have gotten some feedback on backports19:34
jeblairother options include hosting our own .deb repo (apparently we're closer to be able to do that now after all the deb packaging work?).  and another option is switch to another os.19:34
fungiianw: well, ultimately i think we want some build automation to exist for anything we serve from tarballs.o.o19:34
SpamapSApparently there's more or less 1 person doing backports, and he went on vacation last week.19:34
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clarkbusing nix also potentially gives us a good answer for when people want $reallynewthing like libvirt or ovs in $job19:34
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SpamapSIain Lane has also basically suggested that the process is too cumbersome and they'd like to make backports more developer-self-service19:35
fungiit's not as if rerunning apt-ftparchive every time we upload a package into the directory is all that hard to implement if the desire is to host a deb package repository19:36
SpamapSclarkb: help me out. nix packages are source only? Or they build in chroots for all abi's?19:36
SpamapSfungi: I agree.. hosting a small collection of no-change backports is quite simple and many many many shops do it.19:36
clarkbSpamapS: aiui its both?19:37
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clarkbSpamapS: you can bootstrap locally by compiling from the ground up or you if you can use published packages19:38
pabelangerbuilding on deb package work will require some work, since it was debian-jessie based.  However, not the end of the world19:38
clarkband since nix installs are self contained if you grab published packages it just grabs all the published deps too and puts them in the install root19:38
fungiSpamapS: yeah, my script for it looks like this (makes secure-apt perfectly happy too wen my openpgp key is installed): http://paste.openstack.org/show/607916/19:38
clarkband in theory this will all just work except for the kernel because well that is harder to replace on the fly19:38
SpamapSclarkb: yeah so, it is basically adoptiong nixos :)19:39
clarkbSpamapS: no19:39
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SpamapSjust not the kernel :)19:39
clarkbeverything nix would be in its own curated corner that you'd opt into as the user19:39
clarkbadopting nixos implies a lot more changes19:39
fungiin /opt/into/nix!19:39
clarkbespecially around image building and config managment19:40
SpamapSYeah, you're adopting nixos, for bubblewrap. :)19:40
SpamapSI like it19:40
SpamapSdon't get me wrong at all!19:40
clarkbyes but not necessarily for zuul if that makes sense19:40
SpamapSIt's a container approach really. :)19:40
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clarkbyes its similar to snaps19:40
clarkbor the flatpak stuff19:40
SpamapSwhich uses bubblewrap ;)19:40
clarkbbut its been around longer and seems to be much richer19:40
fungior rpath/conary, or...19:40
* SpamapS just went circular19:40
clarkbright because its not actually doing process isolation19:41
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clarkbits just telling your linker and path and all that where to load things into memory19:41
clarkbonce thats done its up to you19:41
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clarkbits just a fancy way of putting bits on the filesystem so that when added to your path they just work19:42
ianwlike software collections?19:42
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clarkbianw: ya except its on a per user basis and it dedups and does fancy things19:43
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clarkbanyways, I was just thinking that maybe instead of building $package x distro x releases we could make packages in a system that we'd set up once19:44
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clarkbsnaps and flatpaks are other options here and they come with different garuntees and drawbacks19:44
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fungiso i guess we need short-term and long-term solutions... the vhd-util package is something we need a means of updating on our own and may not be able to wait for extensive package build automation to be implemented (be that nix or whatever)19:46
fungiand getting a bubblewrap package is a blocker for zuul v3 rollout19:46
jeblairwhat's the status of our .deb build automation?19:46
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SpamapSWhatever does the apt mirror building could just as easily process uploads from an incoming dir, yes?19:47
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SpamapS(not into the same mirror, but into the same afs) ?19:47
ianwi mean, i have no experience with any of those tools in production/dev-ops situations ... so not sure i'd have anything useful to add.  TBH, the vhd-util stuff, a small periodic build and push to a tarballs repo seems fairly simple and well tested19:47
jeblair(i heard things happened for the openstack debian work, but i don't know what)19:47
SpamapSoh right there is already some deb build automation19:48
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pabelangeryes, openstack debian is still a thing, but currently debian-jessie based19:48
* SpamapS forgot about that19:48
fungilooks like it was working at least as of a few weeks ago19:48
pabelangerso, we can add ubuntu-xenial if needed19:48
clarkbpabelanger: iirc that shouldn't matter because you set the chroot to xenial and its fine?19:48
fungi#link http://tarballs.openstack.org/packaging-deb/deb-nova/uploads/2081d05921eafc724ccb99a7b02c2e58f42ddf26/19:48
pabelangerthen create a repo in reprepro19:48
SpamapSshould be relatively straight forward.19:48
clarkbpabelanger: which is what we tried to get zigo to do in reverse when setting things up?19:48
pabelangerclarkb: right, we'd need to write the build scripts for that19:48
clarkboh i see the builds themselves are hardcoded to be debian-jessie19:49
mordredsorry - the sprinkler guy arrived right as this topic started19:49
clarkbthey also run on debian-jessie instances19:49
pabelangerso, it would take a little work to move this to ubuntu, but I can help do that19:49
* mordred can help pabelanger19:49
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clarkbthe running on debian-jessie is fine, we just need to make the builds target xenial19:49
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fungii wouldn't be surprised if there's a fair amount of the pkg-deb team's workflow assumptions baked into those jobs right now (as far as the repo being a fork of what's being packaged, specific branch naming, et cetera)19:50
pabelangerlikely need to make some changes to our JJB publishers, so we don't upload to openstack debian repos19:50
fungithat too19:50
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fungiright now we just need bubblewrap packaged for whatever distro/release we're going to be running zuul executors on, right?19:51
pabelangercentos / fedora are okay today19:52
fungiand vhd-util for wherever we want to run nodepool builders?19:53
mordredfungi: yup19:53
clarkband vhd-util doesn't have any distros that work since its a super local patch right?19:53
mordredthere is no work that I'm aware of for getting that patched vhd-util into a distro in a reasonable manner19:53
fungii gather it's not anything any sane distro would ever carry directly due to being a fork of xen or something19:53
mordredI've also heard rumors that modern qemu-img can make working vhd images19:54
pabelangerbut some rummors of rackspace using qcow2? or qemu-img?19:54
mordredbut as of yet that has not been verified by anyone here19:54
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mordredpabelanger: no- just that qemu-img can convert raw to vhd that work on rax19:54
mordredfungi: and then yes, getting bubblewrap for xenial is, I think, the other thing19:55
fungialso, on the bubblewrap front, debian does have packages (and backported to jessie too). we wouldn't necessary have to _run_ debian to use those, we could consider just using those packages on trusty or xenial since their dependencies can be met there with no trouble19:55
clarkbso sounds like we need something regardless for vhd util19:55
clarkbthen we can decide if we want to piggy back bubblewrap on that19:55
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clarkbor use $otherpackagesource/distro/whatever19:55
mordredwell - we can try to get qemu-img working for vhd and maybe drop our need for vhd-util19:55
pabelangerI'll do an upload today19:56
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mordredbut yes, if that still doens't work (and yuck long iteration cycle) - we need a place to put vhd-util19:56
jeblairthat might be a good first question to answer19:56
fungicurous if anyone has tried running the bubblewrap package from jessie/backports or from stretch19:56
jeblairsince if we need it for vhd-util, may as well do the same for bwrap.19:56
jeblairbut otherwise, lots more interesting options.19:56
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fungimordred: do you mind if we punt your other topic to next week? or to the ml (feedback from current dib contributors would be nice to get first anyway)19:57
fungito sum this up, if newer qemu-img and cross-distro bubblewrap solve these issues, then i wouldn't worry about $topic for now. otherwise we probably want a spec19:59
fungiwell, s/$topic/automating package builds and hosting our own/19:59
fungiand that's all we have time for today20:00
fungithanks everyone!20:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 25 20:00:16 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-04-25-19.02.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-04-25-19.02.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-04-25-19.02.log.html20:00
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funginext up, dhellmann doing his impression of ttx20:00
dhellmann#startmeeting tc20:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 25 20:00:36 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:00
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dhellmannttx is away this week, so I will be acting as chair for the meeting20:00
dhellmanncourtesy ping for TC meeting: cdent, dims, dtroyer, emilienm, flaper87, fungi, johnthetubaguy, mordred, sdague, smcginnis, stevemar20:00
smcginnisfungi: :D20:00
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dhellmann8, so we have quorum20:01
dhellmannour agenda is in the wiki in the usual location20:01
dhellmann#link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
* rockyg does a quick shout out to the new members. congrats!20:01
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dhellmann#topic Welcome new membership20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Welcome new membership (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
dhellmannWelcome to our new and returning members!20:01
dhellmannWe have a few administrative tasks to take care of before we get into the main portion of today's meeting.20:01
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dhellmannYour Gerrit rights should be set up, so you should all be able to RollCall-Vote +1/-1 changes in the openstack/governance repository; let ttx know if you can't20:01
dhellmannWe currently use the openstack-tc mailing-list for administrative communication between TC members, like meeting reminders20:02
dhellmannThe list is moderated for non-members, and the moderation bit was removed for all new TC members so you should all be able to post directly20:02
EmilienMin openstack/project-navigator-data also20:02
dhellmannIOW, you should all be ready to go and start voting and whatnot20:02
smcginnisdhellmann: +120:02
* edleafe watches from the sidelines20:02
dhellmannif not, that's a bug and ttx is the person to fix it20:02
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dhellmann#topic Reminder of current house rules20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Reminder of current house rules (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
dhellmannWe'll discuss potential changes to the process very soon, but in the meantime, a quick reminder of how we currently operate.20:03
* flaper87 saw some votes from cdent and smcginnis so it should be fine20:03
dhellmannChanges or resolutions must be proposed before Thursday 20:00 UTC for discussion at the meeting the following Tuesday20:03
dhellmannSometimes we defer topics if there are too many to cover in one meeting20:03
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dhellmannWe also need to discuss/mention topics during at least one TC meeting before approving them in a formal vote on the review20:03
dhellmannUltimately, things are approved if there are more approvals than rejections, and at least 5 approvers20:03
dhellmannThough in most cases we just merge them when the majority (7 votes) is reached20:03
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dhellmannThere are a number of standing exceptions to that rule (to remove most of the useless discussions from meeting agendas), all documented in20:04
dhellmann#link http://governance.openstack.org/reference/house-rules.html20:04
dhellmannFor example, when a team adds a new repository, the change will be approved after one week if there is no objection.20:04
dhellmannit's the chair's responsibility to keep that list of reviews moving along20:04
dhellmannIf there is an objection then it will be discussed at the following meeting20:04
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dhellmannTo facilitate finding the things we actually have to vote formally on, the chair marks them with the topic: formal-vote20:04
dhellmannI have found this review dashboard useful for keeping up with TC reviews20:04
dhellmann#link http://bit.ly/os-tc-dashboard20:04
dhellmannthat was a big pastebomb, does anyone have questions?20:04
* flaper87 loves the dashboard20:04
cdentso, just to clarify: before something is a formal-vote we use code-review to indicate our pleasure or displeasure with a change20:05
cdentonce the topic formal vote then we may, if we're inclined register a vote20:05
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dhellmanncdent : I don't think we're consistent on that. I never use the code-review status except when I'm voting as a PTL. Others seem to always use it.20:05
cdentdhellmann: yeah, that's part of my confusion, I couldn't identify the pattern20:05
flaper87cdent: you can vote whenever, really. ttx keeps the topics updated20:05
flaper87well, most of the time he does20:06
flaper87other times some folks just use the right topic20:06
cdentI'll figure it out and develop my own unique style20:06
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dhellmannI recommend just using the roll-call voting level in all cases, so we can easily tell whether there's consensus on the TC vs. from other folks (which may indicate a need for more communication about something, even if we all agree on it)20:06
smcginnisMakes sense, I was confused as well.20:06
fungiyeah, it's not really clear so i tend to use code-review on these changes if there's a technical issue with the change, and rollcall-vote for roll20:06
dhellmannthat has come up in the past, where we had a shared understanding that non-tc folks didn't have because they weren't present for a meeting somewhere20:07
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dtroyerI've used code-review to indicate when I've looked at something in-depth (code-review-like) as opposed to agreement20:07
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* fungi basically same as dtroyer then20:07
flaper87fungi: ++20:07
dhellmanna roll-call vote is not really like a -2 on a code patch, since no one has veto power20:07
dhellmannso it's OK to use it20:07
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dhellmanndoes that help?20:07
cdentyes, thanks20:07
dhellmannok, cool20:08
dhellmannlet's start looking some of the reviews we need to cover, then20:08
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dhellmann#topic Approve new TC roster20:08
smcginnisYep, thanks for the explanations.20:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Approve new TC roster (Meeting topic: tc)"20:08
dhellmannOur first order of business is to approve the new results from the recent TC election.20:08
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dhellmannPlease review the results and the CIVS poll outcome and then indicate your approval or point out any issues20:08
dhellmann#link CIVS poll results http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_072c4cd7ff0673b520:08
dhellmann#link updating TC membership after April 2017 election https://review.openstack.org/45877020:08
edleafeDoes anyone ever vote against their being elected? :)20:09
dhellmannI see 11 votes there, so no need to stop and discuss unless anyone has questions20:09
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dhellmannedleafe : we did have a conversation once about whether it makes sense for the new members to be voting on that type of patch :-)20:09
EmilienMship it20:09
EmilienM(ah, only ttx can do it)20:09
edleafe"I'm a fraud!!"20:09
* flaper87 votes against EmilienM20:09
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dhellmannyeah, we'll have to wait for him to W+1 all of these20:10
dhellmann#topic Elect TC chair20:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Elect TC chair (Meeting topic: tc)"20:10
dhellmannWe select our chair for each cycle by updating the governance repository.20:10
dhellmannttx always stands, but he also always tries to encourage someone else to step up20:10
dhellmannIf you would like to serve as chair, please propose a patch to nominate yourself ASAP so we can finalize the selection by the next meeting.20:10
dhellmannFor example, here is ttx's self-nomination:20:10
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dhellmann#link ttx's self-nomination for TC chair https://review.openstack.org/45877420:10
smcginnisdhellmann: This is a 6 month stint, correct?20:10
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smcginnisMaybe next time then.20:11
EmilienMthe rule could change if 6 months is too long (maybe)20:11
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dhellmannit's tied to the cycle, much like the PTL role is20:11
dhellmann#topic Boston Summit20:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Boston Summit (Meeting topic: tc)"20:12
EmilienMdhellmann: ok, got it20:12
openstackRemoving item from minutes: #topic Boston Summit20:12
dhellmannany other questions?20:12
fungisince the chair is also sort of a liaison to the board and so on, having it change more often than every 6 months is probably counter-productive20:12
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dhellmanngood point20:12
flaper87fungi: ++20:12
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dhellmannok, moving on with more pastebombs20:12
dhellmann#topic Boston Summit20:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Boston Summit (Meeting topic: tc)"20:12
dhellmannA few reminders for those who will be in Boston20:13
dhellmannThere will be a joint Board/TC/UC meeting, Sunday May 7th at 2:00pm20:13
dhellmannThe agenda is mostly set at20:13
dhellmann#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/7May2017BoardMeeting20:13
dhellmannThe plan is to go through the various workstreams that were identified at the workshop in Boston in March20:13
dhellmannWe can probably still try to add topics to the agenda if there is something urgent we want to cover.20:13
dhellmannSaturday May 6th, at 7pm, there will be a Staff+Board+TC+UC dinner, on the Level 3 of the Marriott Copley Place Hotel, Boston20:13
dhellmannRSVP at https://bostonboardofdirectorsdinner.eventbrite.com20:13
dhellmannI found out about that too late (my flight will be landing during dinner), but I hope the rest of you are able to make it20:13
dhellmanndoes anyone know for sure they will miss the meeting on sunday?20:14
* smcginnis arrive early Saturday afternoon20:14
cdentI'm still working on that. I had booked my flights quite a while back, but I'm working on getting them changed20:15
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dhellmanndinner will be a good opportunity to meet the board and UC members20:15
* flaper87 will attend both20:15
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dimssame here20:15
fungialso much of the foundation staff will be at dinner as well20:16
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dhellmannfungi : yes, good point20:16
EmilienMI'll skip dinner, I'm flying on Sunday morning.20:16
sdaguewon't be at the dinner, but I'll be at the board meeting20:16
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sdagueI do miss the days when the dinner was post board meeting20:16
fungii agree that was my preference as well20:17
dhellmannyes, I think ttx said it conflicted with another event sunday evening20:17
fungimaybe in sydney20:17
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dhellmannlet's move on to cover some old business20:18
dhellmann#topic Adjustments to status:maintenance-mode tag definition20:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Adjustments to status:maintenance-mode tag definition (Meeting topic: tc)"20:18
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/45779420:18
dhellmannthis patch updates the new tag we approved last week with a few adjustments mentioned in the meeting and in the review itself20:18
cdentgood tidies20:18
EmilienMlooks like this one is ready to ship too20:19
dhellmannI don't think I caught everything, but I picked up what seemed to be the easy changes20:19
dhellmannI see lots of +1s, did anyone have questions about it20:19
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dhellmannok, then20:20
dhellmannwe'll wait for the votes to accumulate and for the next chair to approve it20:20
dhellmann#topic Presentation of User Survey findings20:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Presentation of User Survey findings (Meeting topic: tc)"20:20
dhellmannheidijoy has provided some summary information, which I'll paste into the record now before turning the floor over to her for Q&A20:20
dhellmann#link A 4-minute video overview of report highlights https://www.openstack.org/user-survey/survey-2017/landing?BackURL=/user-survey/survey-2017/20:20
heidijoyHello TC! Thank you for inviting me to this meeting. I’m here to give you additional insights and answer questions you have about the survey. I want to be sure you have the most important links, which are all at www.openstack.org/user-survey - especially the 4-min video overview. Please feel free to ask me questions at any time.  You can download the survey directly from this link, and I’ll refer to page numbers or20:20
dhellmann#link the full report https://www.openstack.org/assets/survey/April2017SurveyReport.pdf20:20
dhellmann#link interactive analytics tool http://openstack.org/analytics20:20
dhellmannShe also wanted to highlight a few key findings:20:20
dhellmann#info Report represents 44% more deployments (nearly 600) and 22% more organizations than ever before, however, fewer total respondents20:20
dhellmann#link https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ihd6rw7efhdalj/1.1%20Compare%20to%20prior%20cycle.png?dl=020:21
dhellmann#info The majority of OpenStack users are on an unsupported release20:21
dhellmann#link all deployments https://www.dropbox.com/s/8hukz6lzaged46j/3.4%20Release%20used%20-%20all%20.png?dl=020:21
dhellmann#link deployments in production https://www.dropbox.com/s/wnlx6yx3t239wn2/3.5%20Releases%20used%20-%20deployments.png?dl=020:21
dhellmann#info NPS scores declined for users overall and for those with deployments - see the full report for verbatim comments20:21
dhellmann#link NPS scores overall https://www.dropbox.com/s/vejq9ou4xu8ytiu/2.2b%20NPS%20over%20time.png?dl=020:21
dhellmann#link NPS scores for users with deployments https://www.dropbox.com/s/6x2d56eor2dzpvl/NPS%20Deployments%20only.png?dl=020:21
dhellmann#info 12 projects asked specific questions to inform future development. See answers on pages 58-65 of the report.20:21
dhellmann#info See the report "Deployment Decisions" section (pages 42-57) for installation/configuration insights.20:21
dhellmanndoes anyone have questions for heidijoy?20:21
heidijoyThank you Doug!20:21
heidijoyTo give you some context on our ninth semiannual user survey, this represents a snapshot of more than 1,400 completed surveys and nearly 600 deployments logged in the first two months of 2017—the largest sample of OpenStack deployments ever (44% more than one year ago). We believe results are representative of our community as a whole, revealing users’ attitudes, technology choices, and uses of OpenStack software. A20:21
heidijoyOops - I got cut off: All OpenStack Foundation members, more than 70,000 people across 160 countries, were invited to fill out the survey.20:22
heidijoyHere are the key findings that we are working to share broadly:  More clouds: OpenStack’s growth is demonstrated by rapid development of new clouds, with 44% more deployments reported on this survey. The average age of a deployment is less than 1.7 years.20:22
heidijoyLarger clouds: 37% of clouds have 1,000 or more cores, up from 29% last year, and 17% of clouds are running more than 1 petabyte of object storage, up from 4% one year ago.20:22
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heidijoyDiverse users: Users of every organizational size and industry find value in OpenStack, 32% have 10,000 employees or more, while 25% have fewer than 100 employees, and users hail from 78 countries.20:22
heidijoyMature technology: OpenStack’s maturity is demonstrated by two-thirds of deployments in production and 90% or greater adoption of key infrastructure services (Nova, Neutron, Keystone, Cinder and Glance).20:23
heidijoyDeep adoption: The median user runs 61–80% of their overall cloud infrastructure on OpenStack, while the typical large user (deployment with 1,000+ cores) reports running 81–100% of their infrastructure on OpenStack.20:23
heidijoyWhile you’ll see certain charts highlighted for our marketing purposes, we intend this to be a solid and defensible report for the community - with qualitative and quantitative answers to key development questions.20:23
smcginnisheidijoy: I need to review yet, but do we have numbers for public vs private cloud deployments?20:23
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dfisherso, I have a couple of questions from the sidelines20:24
heidijoy@smginnis - Yes, we do have those, I'll grab the page number for you...20:24
heidijoyPlease go ahead, @dfisher20:24
dfisherbackground:  I'm a Solaris developer at Oracle.  I'm the tech lech for OpenStack on Solaris20:24
dfisherReading the user survey, i see the same issues time and time again.20:24
dfisherpages 18-19 of the survey are especially common points.20:24
heidijoy@smcginnis - go to page 26 of the report for Public/private cloud info.20:25
smcginnisheidijoy: Thank you!20:25
dfisherthings move too fast, no LTS release, upgrades are terrifying for anything that isn't N-1 -> N.20:25
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dfisherthese come up time and time again20:25
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dfisherhow is the TC working with the dev teams to address these critical issues?20:25
heidijoy@dfisher you're right - we've seen these themes highlighted before. I'll leave it open to TC to discuss.20:25
fungii think it comes down to member companies investing in making those issues priorities for their developers, first and foremost20:26
dhellmannI know some of the distributors provide longer term support, for example20:26
edleafefungi: +1. I don't see the TC having a big role here20:26
flaper87fungi: ++20:26
dhellmannthat's not necessarily the thing we have resources for upstream20:26
dfisherKilo is still supported on Solaris 11.320:26
smcginnisIt impacts us, but I do think that comes down to the distributors providing support.20:26
fungithough we are rolling out new plans to attempt to highlight these sorts of concerns for member companies who don't know where to invest their time20:26
heidijoyA main issue for the TC to look at is the fact that the majority of OpenStack deployments are on unsupported releases. You can see that chart on page 27-28.20:27
dfisher^ exactly20:27
dfisherKilo's been EOL'd for awhile now.20:27
dfisherbut it's what we have on 11.320:27
dfisherSolaris* 11.320:27
mordredheidijoy: sure - main thing is that nobody provides any resources to work on kilo upstream20:27
dfisheryes, I know it's Solaris and not Linux and we've had *that* particular discussion before20:27
heidijoyThe survey noted: "It is important to note that the Liberty release was end-of-life (EOL) and not security supported as of Nov. 17, 2016. Additionally, Mitaka will be EOL and not security supported on April 10, 2017. Combined with the still significant Juno and Kilo userbase, that means the majority of OpenStack users are on an unsupported release."20:27
fungidifferent distros are also picking different releases to "stabilize" on their own, without any obvious coordination between one another20:27
dfisherbut it's a small piece of the larger problem.20:28
smcginnisdfisher: So if Oracle is not updating that to something newer, I assume they have resource to continue to support the older release?20:28
dhellmannheidijoy : are there still complaints about patch review throughput, or do those show up in other places?20:28
dtroyerdfisher: this isn't particular to Solaris or any given Linux distro, it is entirely due to how contributing companies allocate resources20:28
EmilienMdfisher: I agree it's a resource issue here. A lot of folks want a lot of things but the people who actually make it happen need more help I think20:28
mordredand each of the times we've discussed increasing the support window in the past, people have asked for it, it's been ok'd in some circumstances, but then nobody has shown up to do the work20:28
dfishersmcginnis: sadly, we don't.  we're stuck on Kilo for now for internal political reasons.20:28
flaper87I think the community has done a great job on improving upgrades from N-1 -> N and given the current resources I think that's already a huge goal... hate to be defensive and not constructive but...20:28
heidijoy@dtroyer I didn't see complaints about patch review throughput in any of the verbatim comments (there were about 1800 of them)20:28
mordredflaper87: ++20:28
edleafeflaper87: +120:28
flaper87Supporting upgrades from kilo to current would not only imply having to maintain the release but it has a *HUGE* impact on CI and the infrastructure used to develop openstack20:29
dimsflaper87 : true, but it's hard to keep upgrading systems at the rate20:29
mordredsaid another way - I tihnk we'd love to support longer releases or n+2 upgrades or whatnot - but we simply have no humans20:29
dhellmannheidijoy : ok. that has been a complaint in the past, which would seem to be in opposition to the current complaint about going too fast. Maybe we exchanged one problem for another, or maybe different users have different perspectives.20:29
dfisherOpenStack, in general, appears to be managed by project teams (read: engineers) rather than a central body (read: the TC or maybe even the foundation itself)20:29
fungiflaper87: i think the concern though is that it's not possible to upgrade from n to > n+1 (e/g/ from n to n+2 or to n+3 without taking intermediate upgrade steps)20:29
EmilienMmordred: yes, that20:29
flaper87dims: not saying it's easy but I do think it's something that distros will have to handle specifically20:29
mriedemdfisher: read through and grok all of this https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/stable-branch-eol-policy-newton20:29
mriedem^ was the austin summit20:29
mriedemfor newton20:29
mordreddhellmann: I think it's different users have different perspectives20:29
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EmilienMdfisher: is Oracle willing to allocate engineers helping us on doing release management?20:29
mordredI've had two different board members approach me during the same break20:29
dmsimardFWIW, from the perspective of a distro (RDO), even supporting an extra stable release (Mitaka) due to the Ocata short cycle was a significant strain on human and physical resource20:30
mordredmaking each side of the opposites of that complaint20:30
edleafePerhaps we can get help to get some of those comanies that are going to be staying on an unsupported release to get together and... well, support it.20:30
mordred"things are too fast" and "things are too slow"20:30
dhellmannbefore we get too far into this specific issue, I want to point out that this may not be the best forum for it20:30
fungibasically the release-skipping requests are closely tied to the "lts" requests, since you need guarantees for one to be able to provide the other20:30
heidijoy@dfisher  - I agree that eng teams seem to manage project output more than a governing body/ product management group20:30
sdaguedhellmann: ++20:30
dfisherEmilienM: obviously I can't speak for Oracle.  I shouldn't even speak for Solaris but we don't have the staff in Solaris to support that.20:30
dhellmannwe've had quite a few complaints recently about the speed of discussions in this meeting, for example20:30
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dhellmannand this is the sort of thing that really would be better served by moving to the mailing list20:30
sdaguedhellmann: I think this is pretty far off the original topic20:30
sdaguedhellmann: ++20:30
flaper87dhellmann: yeah, wonder if a late addition to the forum schedule makes sense20:30
dhellmannso, are there other questions about the survey or the results for heidijoy?20:31
smcginnisdhellmann: +120:31
dfisherplease, please, please understand that I'm not trying to ask you about something that I want to just consume and not provide for20:31
* flaper87 shrugs20:31
heidijoyI know there is room for it - specifically for late adds.20:31
flaper87dfisher: perhaps start a new ml thread ?20:31
cdentI've got one for heidijoy :20:31
cdentIs there any correlating done between type of survey respondent and the NPS scores? That is, do we know what type of user/contributor/deployer/etc does or does not like stuff?20:31
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dfisherflaper87: engineers get stuck on the "Solaris" and "Oracle" part of the email.  I've done it before.20:31
smcginnisdfisher: But at the same time you've said Oracle can't provide support for it. So there's the catch-22.20:31
heidijoyYes!! We've done a lot of those correlations. Pulling details @cdent...20:31
dfishersmcginnis: agreed 100%.  What I'm trying to get across is what Solaris customers are telling us.20:32
dfishermy customers want an LTS.20:32
sdagueheidijoy: as a follow on to cdent's point, are there key issues / factors impacting NPS over time20:32
dhellmanndfisher, smcginnis, flaper87 : please move that to the mailing list20:32
smcginnisdhellmann: +120:32
heidijoy@cdent we looked at NPS correlations with user org size, which releases they are on, age of cloud (this one we showed in the report),20:32
cdentheidijoy: underlying my question is wondering whether upstream developers like or dislike openstack more than deployers or users20:33
heidijoyAnd surprisingly we didn't see correlations between NPS and demographic/firmographic data20:33
heidijoyAh - that is something I could explore more and follow up on in the ML20:33
sdagueheidijoy: I know in a previous survey there were some raw comment blocks, and pull quotes from those were sometimes useful. In much the same way as looking at all the TC vision responses in the raw provides some interesting insights that would get lost if it was just turned into numbers.20:33
heidijoyWe did do a correlation study on user role in April 2016 with no sig differences20:33
cdentheidijoy: I'll look out for that, woudl be very interesting20:34
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heidijoy@sdague agree - and you'll find several pages of raw comments pulled from the ~1800 verbatim responses to our 3 qualitative questions20:34
heidijoyI'll promise to take action to follow up on NPS correlations with the TC mailing list.20:34
heidijoyObviously we want to get to the bottom of this and reverse the trend. The NPS score declined significantly compared to one year ago: down 5 points among all users, down 10 points among users with deployments. Here’s a chart not included in the final report that looks at NPS for those with deployments only:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/6x2d56eor2dzpvl/NPS%20Deployments%20only.png?dl=020:35
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heidijoyWe included a lot of verbatim comments in the report from those who gave OpenStack a low NPS score and also from those who answered the question “what areas of OpenStack need further enhancement?” Also the Foundation execs have segmented NPS answers looking for trends and reaching out to users to help create a better user experience.20:35
lsellsdague pages 12-22 of the long-form report capture many of the raw comments20:35
dhellmann#action heidijoy follow up on NPS correlations with the TC20:35
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fungithis is also our first drop in nps since we started doing a periodic user survey, correct?20:36
heidijoyThank you @lsell for the page numbers20:36
heidijoyWhen you read the report, you’ll want to dig into the "Deployment Decisions" section (pages 42-57) for installation/configuration insights.20:36
heidijoyOne more thing I’d like to highlight for the TC is that 12 projects asked specific questions to inform future development. See answers on pages 58-65 of the report.20:36
sdagueah, the user perspectives bit, ok, will read through that20:36
sdaguethanks heidijoy / lsell20:36
dhellmannare there any other questions or comments before we move on to the next topic?20:37
heidijoyThank you! That's all from me. I'll leave you to digest and remind you my email is heidijoy@openstack.org if I can help with other follow up.20:37
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dhellmannheidijoy : thank you for preparing the summary and for making time to be here for the meeting today for the discussion20:37
dimsthanks heidijoy20:37
smcginnisheidijoy: Thanks!20:38
heidijoyVery welcome!20:38
dhellmannI do think the history behind dfisher's question is something worth documenting. Does anyone want to volunteer to help with that?20:38
EmilienMdhellmann: I can do it20:39
smcginnisThere was really good info in the stable session in Austin on that.20:39
dhellmannEmilienM : thanks20:39
jbrycedhellmann: agreed. it continues to come up repeatedly and i don't think there's a universal understanding of the state of things and the reasons why it's that way20:39
dhellmannsmcginnis : good, that's a good reference to have20:40
flaper87EmilienM: it'd be great to gather feedback from smcginnis and mriedem on this20:40
fungimaybe we need an faq eventually, for easier reference in the future20:40
dhellmannjbryce : there seems to be an impression that the contributors are making up the things they want to work on, rather than being directed by their employers :-)20:40
smcginnisjbryce: Maybe worth some blog posts and some frank discussions with vendors selling support.20:40
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flaper87these topics have been discussed by cinder and nova in the past (and other parts of the communities but those 2 come to mind)20:40
mriedemflaper87: it's more than just us, it's also vmt, stable team, infra team, qa team20:40
dhellmannfungi : that's what I was thinking. Something that includes a history not just of how often it has come up, but how much the request and response have been the same.20:41
flaper87mriedem: I didn't say it was just you :)20:41
smcginnisIt's all mriedem's fault.20:41
dhellmannI'll work with EmilienM on gathering some of that history, but if anyone has references please share20:41
EmilienM#action EmilienM to gather feedback from smcginnis / mriedem / dfisher and document the history on why we don't have OpenStack LTS20:41
EmilienMis it correct ^ ?20:41
dhellmannthat should work, yes20:41
smcginnisEmilienM: Sounds good.20:41
EmilienMwell, for dfisher I need to discuss more and know exactly what's wrong20:42
mriedemalso https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1k0mCHwRZ3_Z8zJw_WilsuTYYqnUDlY2PkgVJLz_xVQc/edit?usp=sharing20:42
mriedemif you don't like etherpads20:42
EmilienMmriedem: can you open the doc please?,20:42
dhellmannI know the reading I did recently on logging uncovered some interesting patterns20:42
EmilienMit's restricted20:42
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EmilienMmriedem: works20:42
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dhellmannmriedem : nice, thanks20:42
mriedemand yes i make charts for non presentation sessions20:43
dhellmannis there anything else on this topic before we move on?20:43
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dhellmann#topic Update diversity tags20:44
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dhellmannIt is time to take care of maintenance on some of the tags that need to be updated regularly.20:44
dhellmannttx has put together an update for the team diversity tags based on recent statistics20:44
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/44866720:44
johnsomo/ In case there are questions for us20:44
dhellmanncdent , I know you had a question about this one. did dtroyer's response answer it?20:44
cdentyeah, dtroyer's response was good enough for me20:44
dhellmannok, good20:45
dhellmanndid anyone else have questions?20:45
* dtroyer wipes brow20:45
* dhellmann checks the latest revision20:45
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dhellmannI believe we say we'll do this review every cycle, but I don't think there is anything stopping us from doing it more often20:46
dhellmannwell, I may be wrong there, it says "should be updated around the same time as the 6 month release"20:46
smcginnisThere are some interesting comments in there from johnsom about how those numbers are calculated.20:46
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fungialso anyone who's interested can run it themselves and ask that we perform an interim update20:47
fungii'm curious if there are reasons for making it once a cycle only20:47
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fungior if that was just to address expectations that it's automatically reassessed more often20:48
dhellmannjohnsom : yes, the rules as written say no one organization should represent more than 50% of any one of a list of several criteria. It seems the review stats are what changed in this case.20:49
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johnsomFrankly, recent events will make that metric worse.20:49
dhellmannfungi : I think that was to ensure we did it regularly, but the phrasing may not have captured all of the subtleties of "we can do this more often, if needed"20:49
mordredjohnsom: yah. :(20:49
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dhellmannyeah, I would imagine so20:49
EmilienMtimebox: we have 3 more topics and 10 min left20:50
dhellmannjohnsom : were you objecting to the definition of the tag, or the calculations?20:50
mordredjohnsom: especially since the #1 feature people want from the user survey for networking is "software load balancing"20:50
dhellmannEmilienM : thanks20:50
fungijohnsom: if the people involved find sponsorship to continue upstream from different employers, then it could actually improve?20:50
johnsommordred Grin, for the second year running.20:50
mordredjohnsom: \o/20:50
dhellmannwe're going to have to start recruiting users to fund developers at some point, so they get exactly what they want :-)20:50
johnsomMy concern was about perceptions of what this metric means and the way it is calculated.  I think my thoughts in the comments.20:51
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dhellmannI think any discussion of redefining the tag will need to be handled separately20:51
fungior convincing the users who are funding developers to change their minds about what they want to fund a little less often ;)20:51
dhellmannfungi : or that20:51
johnsomfungi We lost one core, from outside of Rackspace, so the number will weigh heavier towards Rackspace now20:51
dhellmannas EmilienM points out, we have some other topics to cover20:52
dhellmann#topic Next steps (if any) for Driver teams and networking-cisco's standing request20:52
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/40382920:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Next steps (if any) for Driver teams and networking-cisco's standing request (Meeting topic: tc)"20:52
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/40383620:52
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/36370920:52
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dhellmannI originally raised this issue, and it was put on the backlog until thingee had some time to do some work exposing driver status20:52
dhellmannis there an update on that work?20:52
EmilienMfungi: you made a good point20:52
dhellmannthingee : where do things stand with the driver log work?20:53
thingeeproject config work for new repo https://review.openstack.org/#/c/452556/20:53
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thingeeand inclusion in projects yaml https://review.openstack.org/#/c/452548/20:53
thingeeand until I have a repo the work is being done here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330027/20:54
thingeetaking over for ankur-gupta-f4 now20:54
dhellmannthingee : have you had a chance to talk to the Cisco team about whether this would address their concerns?20:54
thingeeI have not received responses20:54
thingeeso I'm not sure the original person cares anymore?20:55
dhellmannI still have my concerns about the fact that they've been disenfranchised, but I'm curious to know their perspective on the driver log20:55
dhellmannyes, well, there were always the 2 sides to the issue. I set my concern aside until some of this work was done.20:55
* ijw (who has a standing alert on 'Cisco') can find you someone to talk to, if that helps20:55
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dhellmannthingee, can you work with ijw to find the right contact?20:56
thingeethis example is being tested against nova and neutron for building their matrices. designate on the other hand might require some tweaking with their support-matrix.ini file20:56
thingeebut it should all the same in the end of what's rendered today with this disjointed script20:56
thingeedhellmann: yes20:56
thingeeijw: hi!20:56
dhellmannthingee : ok, thanks20:56
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dhellmannlet's squeeze in one more item before we have to yield the room20:56
dhellmann#topic Abandoning the weekly meeting20:57
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dhellmannthe time we have won't do this topic justice, but flaper87 do you want to introduce it?20:57
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flaper87yeah, super quick20:57
flaper87I proposed a resolution a couple of mins before the meeting (sorry for the delay) so I'll just paste some context here:20:57
flaper87Review: https://review.openstack.org/45984820:57
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/45984820:57
flaper87I have more context but it's all pretty much in the review's commit message20:57
EmilienMlet's postpone it to next meeting, since topics have to be proposed before Thursday :-P20:57
smcginnisI understand the argument for it, but I do like having a set time every week to make sure things get done.20:57
flaper87I'm not good at writing resolutions so, please, help me out there20:58
dhellmannEmilienM : yes, we wouldn't approve it this week, but it was on the agenda20:58
fungiEmilienM: the topic was proposed before, just not the resolution ;)20:58
EmilienMfungi: oops20:58
flaper87smcginnis: the assumption we need this meeting to get things done is something I'd like to get rid off20:58
flaper87I'd like us to be proactive *outside* the meeting20:58
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EmilienMflaper87: thanks for bringing this topic up, some teams in OpenStack have the same question for themselves20:58
flaper87not 5 mins the meeting happens20:58
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flaper87sorry, that came out a bit snarky, it was not my intention20:58
mordredI like the idea of us being proactive outside the meeting - and of making the meetings be more "as it becomes clear we need a meeting to talk about a thing"20:59
flaper87mordred: ++20:59
sdagueyeh, at the same time, we do always seem to be running out of time at meetings20:59
fungii like the meeting as an "office hours" and maybe we don't need quorum20:59
* dhellmann checks clock20:59
mordredif we do that, maybe we sohuldalso have some sort of "office hours" where people can count on TC people to be in a place on IRC and easy to reach20:59
mordredfungi: ++20:59
dhellmannfungi : office hours is a useful idea20:59
flaper87ok, let's start the discussion on the review20:59
jeblairwhile it's not ideal, i find the weekly meeting helps keep me involved without needing to read *everything* on the mailing list.  basically, if we change this, let's try to make sure it doesn't make it harder for people to keep up or be involved in things they don't have 100% time for.20:59
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EmilienM@all for open discussion, some TC members (/me included) remain available on #openstack-dev20:59
mordredjeblair: ++21:00
dhellmannjeblair : I share your concern21:00
smcginnisjeblair: I agree21:00
flaper87fungi: that will end up in almost the same guys always showing up21:00
dhellmannspeaking of time, we're out of it21:00
fungiyes, the communication team will have their work cut out for them21:00
flaper87if you make a meeting at 23:00 my time optional, you can be sure I won't attend21:00
dhellmannthank you all!21:00
mordredbut I think we could also have staggered "office hours" so that non-US TC members aren't quite so disadvantaged21:00
flaper87my brain is fried and drunk at that time21:00
smcginnismordred: +121:00
smcginnisflaper87: Hah!21:00
dtroyerthank you dhellmann21:00
fungithanks for chairing, dhellmann!21:00
flaper87dhellmann: thanks a bunch for chairing21:00
EmilienMdhellmann: thanks!21:00
cdentoffice hours ++21:01
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dhellmannnext week your regular ttx should be back in the hot seat21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 25 21:01:15 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-04-25-20.00.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-04-25-20.00.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-04-25-20.00.log.html21:01
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