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| hongbin | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 2 03:00:03 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-05-02_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
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| mkrai | Madhuri | 03:00 |
| kevinz | kevinz | 03:00 |
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| hongbin | thanks for joining the meeting Namrata mkrai kevinz | 03:02 |
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| Shunli | sorry for late | 03:02 |
| shubhams | shubhams \o | 03:02 |
| hongbin | thanks for joining Shunli shubhams , you are not late :) | 03:02 |
| hongbin | ok, let's get started | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #topic Announcements | 03:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| hongbin | 1. We have a "Boston Summit" release by the end of April | 03:03 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459160/ | 03:03 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/461187/ | 03:03 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/460763/ | 03:03 |
| hongbin | they are the releases of zun, zunclient, and zun-ui respectively | 03:03 |
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| hongbin | you could see the new tag on the github now | 03:03 |
| hongbin | they are 0.1.0 or 0.2.0 | 03:03 |
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| hongbin | hope you enjoy them | 03:04 |
| hongbin | 2. A proposed change of Zun core team | 03:04 |
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| hongbin | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-April/116112.html | 03:04 |
| hongbin | look forward to your vote on this proposal | 03:04 |
| shubhams | Great that we have a release | 03:04 |
| hongbin | i saw qiming, pradeep and kevin already voted for it | 03:05 |
| hongbin | thanks for that | 03:05 |
| mkrai | I will vote too today | 03:05 |
| shubhams | Good to see Feng in Core team .. I will cast my vote soon | 03:05 |
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| hongbin | thx | 03:05 |
| hongbin | 3. No meeting next week due to OpenStack Summit | 03:05 |
| hongbin | that is all from me | 03:05 |
| hongbin | any remark/announment from you? | 03:06 |
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| hongbin | seems no | 03:06 |
| hongbin | #topic Review Action Items | 03:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:07 | |
| hongbin | 1. hongbin create a bp for floating ip association to containers | 03:07 |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/floating-ip-association | 03:07 |
| hongbin | done | 03:07 |
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| hongbin | 2. hongbin create a bp to track the idea of labeling hosts | 03:07 |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/label-compute-host | 03:07 |
| hongbin | that conclude the review action items | 03:07 |
| hongbin | any comment on these? | 03:07 |
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| hongbin | seems no | 03:08 |
| hongbin | ok, advance topic | 03:08 |
| hongbin | #topic Kuryr integration (hongbin) | 03:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kuryr integration (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:08 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/kuryr-integration The BP | 03:08 |
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| hongbin | i marked this bp as implemented, and created another bp for the network api design | 03:08 |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/network-rest-api | 03:09 |
| hongbin | feel free to take it if anyone interest on it | 03:09 |
| mkrai | I will assign it to myself | 03:09 |
| hongbin | mkrai: ack | 03:09 |
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| FengShengqin | Last week , i met the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/zun/+bug/1686617 | 03:10 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1686617 in Zun "Auth plugin requires parameters which were not given: auth_url" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to <email address hidden> (feng-shengqin) | 03:10 |
| hongbin | mkrai: i am open for idea about the idea, a requirement from my side is i) to make it easy to use, ii) make it similar to nova | 03:11 |
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| mkrai | hongbin: Ok I will create an etherpad for that | 03:11 |
| mkrai | I will start this after Boston summit | 03:11 |
| hongbin | mkrai: for ii), the rational is to make it orchestratable in a heat teamplate | 03:11 |
| hongbin | mkrai: after digging into the heat zun-plugin, i found that the resource will be more intuitive if it is similar to nova::server | 03:12 |
| hongbin | that is my personal feeling | 03:12 |
| hongbin | mkrai: sure, thx | 03:12 |
| mkrai | hongbin: Ok I will look into nova network API for more details | 03:12 |
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| hongbin | mkrai: ack | 03:12 |
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| hongbin | FengShengqin: do you have any comment about that bug? | 03:13 |
| FengShengqin | No, i will try later | 03:13 |
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| hongbin | ok | 03:14 |
| hongbin | any other comment for this topic | 03:14 |
| hongbin | ? | 03:14 |
| mkrai | No | 03:14 |
| shubhams | none from me | 03:15 |
| hongbin | ok, next topic | 03:15 |
| hongbin | #topic Introduce container composition | 03:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduce container composition (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:15 | |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437759/ | 03:15 |
| hongbin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-composition The etherpad | 03:15 |
| hongbin | kevinz: want to drive this one? | 03:15 |
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| kevinz | kevinz: Yeah | 03:15 |
| kevinz | hongbin: Yeah | 03:15 |
| kevinz | I remember last week we discussed about the API | 03:16 |
| hongbin | yes | 03:16 |
| kevinz | which can be used in capsule and which is not | 03:16 |
| kevinz | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-composition | 03:17 |
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| kevinz | From the Line 142 to Line 169 are the container API and capsule API | 03:18 |
| kevinz | Feel free to give some comments on this | 03:18 |
| hongbin | ok, all, want to cast your inputs into the etherpad now? | 03:18 |
| mkrai | ok | 03:18 |
| hongbin | in particular, in line #142 - #169 | 03:19 |
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| mkrai | I was thinking can we have a new input to all container commands which take 'capsule' as input | 03:21 |
| FengShengqin | l#l142 list capsule-id , IMO, list all capsules , show a capsule by its uuid | 03:21 |
| mkrai | which means zun list capsule1 will list all container in capsule1 | 03:21 |
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| mkrai | similarly zun delete capsule1 container1 will delete container1 in capsule1 | 03:22 |
| mkrai | just my 2 cents ;) | 03:22 |
| hongbin | mkrai: i think we could add an option (i.e. zun list --capsule xxx) for that, however, the option needs to be optional | 03:22 |
| kevinz | +1 for hongbin | 03:23 |
| mkrai | yes i meant the same hongbin :) | 03:23 |
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| mkrai | and this could be done to all container APIs as well | 03:23 |
| mkrai | hongbin: kevinz WDYT? | 03:23 |
| hongbin | FengShengqin: feel free to relay your inputs to the therpad | 03:23 |
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| hongbin | kevinz: as FengShengqin mentioned, list capsule should not take a id? | 03:24 |
| kevinz | mkrai: That's a good idea | 03:25 |
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| kevinz | FengShengqin:hongbin: Yes, UUID is a preferred one | 03:26 |
| hongbin | kevinz: i mean the capsule api, it is "list capsule-id" | 03:27 |
| hongbin | kevinz: however, capsule-id doesn't seem to make sence in list | 03:27 |
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| kevinz | hongbin: sure, you're right | 03:29 |
| kevinz | I will remove it | 03:29 |
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| hongbin | kevinz: thx | 03:31 |
| hongbin | seems we are well agreed on most of hte apis | 03:31 |
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| mkrai | Yes | 03:32 |
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| mkrai | We have a clear picture now | 03:32 |
| kevinz | yes | 03:32 |
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| hongbin | kevinz: is any part of the api design that you want more clarification? | 03:33 |
| kevinz | hongbin: thx hongbin, I have one. For capsule delete, I think we should add the support for delete capsule with "special labels" | 03:34 |
| kevinz | For example, Some capsules will be labeled as "web-server". | 03:35 |
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| hongbin | i am not strong at this one, would like to consider opinions from others | 03:36 |
| kevinz | They are doing the same functions, so delete with label can make the API more flexible | 03:36 |
| Shunli | -1 for delete by label | 03:36 |
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| Shunli | I think containers in capsule should delete all or none. | 03:36 |
| Shunli | should not be deleted separately. | 03:36 |
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| mkrai | kevinz: Will it delete all the containers in a capsule? | 03:37 |
| FengShengqin | +1 delete with label can make the API more flexible | 03:37 |
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| kevinz | Shunli: Yeah, delete lables also means delete "all containers in one capsule" | 03:37 |
| kevinz | Just delete all the capsules which have the same labels. Not seperately delete special containers | 03:38 |
| mkrai | kevinz: If so, I think I am ok to have it. Given that it deletes all the container in a capsule | 03:38 |
| Shunli | If just use the lable to indentify the capsule. Then delete all or none containers in capsule. I'm +1 for delete by label. | 03:39 |
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| hongbin | ok, seems we have an agreement on this as well | 03:39 |
| kevinz | mkrai: Shunli: Thx for that! as you say, this label is for identify the capsule | 03:39 |
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| kevinz | hongbin: Yes that's great | 03:40 |
| hongbin | one last thing, could you revisit the capsule api in the etherpad, inparticular, option #2 | 03:40 |
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| hongbin | needs your opinion for 2.1, 2.2, and 2.3 | 03:41 |
| mkrai | kevinz: It will be great if you can write the new capsule_id param to container APIs in etherpad also. | 03:41 |
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| mkrai | hongbin: Do you mean to check the delete API? | 03:42 |
| hongbin | mkrai: the update api | 03:42 |
| mkrai | ok | 03:42 |
| hongbin | line #166 - #168 | 03:42 |
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| hongbin | the question is how to update a container in capsule | 03:43 |
| hongbin | there are 3 options listed | 03:43 |
| mkrai | I vote for 2.3 | 03:43 |
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| kevinz | mkrai: you mean the capsule_id just occurs in API "list"? | 03:43 |
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| kevinz | mkrai: Maybe this is a typo, I'd like to choose the uuid instead, the same with containers | 03:44 |
| hongbin | ok, i lean to 2.3 as well | 03:45 |
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| mkrai | kevinz: Ex. zun list --capsule <id>, zun update --capsule <capsule> container | 03:46 |
| hongbin | +1 | 03:46 |
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| hongbin | ok, seems we agree on this one as well | 03:47 |
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| hongbin | kevinz: anything else you want to bring up about this topic? | 03:47 |
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| kevinz | hongbin: just consider the capsule id which mkrai referred | 03:48 |
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| kevinz | hongbin: besides this, that's all from me. Thx everyone for the kindly comments:-) | 03:49 |
| hongbin | i lean to let capsule operation can take a name or uuid (similar to containers) | 03:49 |
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| mkrai | +1 for both name or uuid | 03:50 |
| kevinz | +1 | 03:50 |
| hongbin | ok, seems we agreed again | 03:51 |
| kevinz | Cool | 03:51 |
| hongbin | all, any other remark on this topic? | 03:51 |
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| mkrai | No that's all | 03:51 |
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| hongbin | ok | 03:51 |
| hongbin | #topic Open Discussion | 03:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:51 | |
| hongbin | Namrata: there? | 03:52 |
| mkrai | Thanks kevinz for your hard work on this :) | 03:52 |
| hongbin | Thanks kevinz | 03:52 |
| Namrata | Hi | 03:52 |
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| kevinz | mkrai: hongbin: My pleasure :-) | 03:52 |
| hongbin | Namrata: want to give the team an update for your heat work ? | 03:52 |
| Namrata | I have seen the reviews I will update the patch | 03:52 |
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| hongbin | Namrata: thx | 03:53 |
| Namrata | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437810/ | 03:53 |
| hongbin | Namrata: i like your patch, it improves a lot | 03:53 |
| Namrata | Thanks and it needs improvement also | 03:53 |
| Namrata | will update the same | 03:53 |
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| hongbin | Namrata: look forward to your revision | 03:53 |
| Namrata | yeah sure | 03:54 |
| hongbin | for all, Namrata is working on the Heat integration feature, which is very cool | 03:54 |
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| hongbin | with that, you could orchestrate zun container with any openstack resource in a heat template | 03:54 |
| hongbin | i play with it, and like it a lot | 03:54 |
| mkrai | We will try to include an example in Boston summit | 03:55 |
| mkrai | Namrata: will help me :) | 03:55 |
| Namrata | mkrai : sure | 03:55 |
| hongbin | thanks Namrata | 03:56 |
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| hongbin | all, any other topic you want to bring it up? | 03:56 |
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| hongbin | seems no | 03:57 |
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| hongbin | all, thanks for joining the meeting | 03:57 |
| hongbin | remember there is no meeting next week | 03:57 |
| hongbin | see you all the week after the next week | 03:58 |
| hongbin | #endmeeting | 03:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 2 03:58:07 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-05-02-03.00.html | 03:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-05-02-03.00.txt | 03:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-05-02-03.00.log.html | 03:58 |
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| samP | hi all for masakari...o/ | 04:00 |
| sagara | hi | 04:00 |
| tpatil | Hi | 04:00 |
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| samP | #startmeeting masakari | 04:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 2 04:00:35 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is samP. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 04:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 04:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'masakari' | 04:00 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | Hi all | 04:00 |
| samP | Hi all.. | 04:00 |
| samP | lets start.. | 04:01 |
| samP | #topic Bugs | 04:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:01 | |
| samP | any bugs or patches to discuss? | 04:01 |
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| samP | if not, then lets move to discussion | 04:02 |
| samP | #topic Boston Summit | 04:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Boston Summit (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:02 | |
| samP | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Masakari-Boston-Summit | 04:02 |
| samP | ^^ I wrote some important session in summit | 04:03 |
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| sagara | samP: thanks | 04:04 |
| samP | please add any other topics that you think may important to masakari | 04:04 |
| tpatil | Ok | 04:05 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | ok | 04:05 |
| samP | Lets have F2F meeting in summit. please write down your convenient time. | 04:05 |
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| samP | I will put other meeting schedules also in the above etherpad, such as meeting with opentsack-ha, or any others | 04:06 |
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| samP | #topic recovery method customization | 04:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "recovery method customization (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:08 | |
| samP | Thank you Abhishek for BP | 04:09 |
| tpatil | Looks like he has not joined today's meeting | 04:09 |
| samP | tpatil: yep | 04:09 |
| tpatil | We need to explain Adam why we are reinventing the wheel | 04:10 |
| samP | And also thanks for the spec. | 04:10 |
| samP | tpatil: sure, I will comment to spec and we can meet him in summit.. | 04:11 |
| tpatil | Basically Masakari shouldn't depend on any external services. By default it should be able to execute workflow action on its own | 04:11 |
| samP | tpatil: agree | 04:11 |
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| samP | And I have pending work item to add more info to spec, which I will do soon before summit. | 04:13 |
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| sagara | Me too, I need to write prevent from flapping spec. | 04:14 |
| samP | sagara: thanks | 04:14 |
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| samP | #topic Pike work Items | 04:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pike work Items (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:15 | |
| sagara | #link Pike work items https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/masakari-pike-workitems | 04:16 |
| samP | since, honjo-san is not here, lets have status sync on Boston summit | 04:16 |
| samP | He will be there at summit | 04:17 |
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| samP | I will try to complete my specs before summit | 04:18 |
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| samP | #topic rpm packaging | 04:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rpm packaging (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:18 | |
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| sagara | I noticed 'Prevent from flapping' is in 'Spec less BP' to see link above. | 04:18 |
| samP | sagara: I thought it would not need a spec. However, if you feel that we need to discuss more about this, then please add a spec for it. | 04:19 |
| sagara | samP: OK | 04:19 |
| samP | Adam is doing a great job with adding masakari, python-masakariclient, masakari-monitors to rpm packaging. | 04:20 |
| samP | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459879/ | 04:21 |
| samP | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/460239/ | 04:21 |
| samP | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459344/ | 04:21 |
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| samP | This is one of the reasons why Im holding the tag 3.0.1 for masakari. | 04:21 |
| tpatil | samP: ok, I got it | 04:22 |
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| samP | We should propose same for deb packaging.. I will ask deb team after rpm added | 04:23 |
| samP | or we dont have to wait for merge rpm packaging. Things are proposed now and part of them are merged. | 04:24 |
| samP | I will ask anyway.. | 04:24 |
| samP | #action samP Ask deb team to add masakari to deb packaging | 04:28 |
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| samP | #topic AOB | 04:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:28 | |
| samP | pretty fast...any other things to discuss? | 04:29 |
| sagara | nothing special | 04:29 |
| tpatil | samP: nothing from my side | 04:29 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | nothing from me too | 04:30 |
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| samP | Thanks. OK then, if no other questions or discussions, lets finish the meeting here | 04:30 |
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| samP | CU all at Boston. | 04:31 |
| tpatil | samP: Looking forward to meeting you there | 04:31 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | yes, thanks to all | 04:31 |
| tpatil | s/meeting/meet | 04:31 |
| tpatil | Bye | 04:31 |
| sagara | meet in Boston, all! | 04:31 |
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| samP | have a safe tip... | 04:31 |
| samP | #endmeeting | 04:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 04:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 2 04:32:08 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 04:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-05-02-04.00.html | 04:32 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-05-02-04.00.txt | 04:32 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-05-02-04.00.log.html | 04:32 |
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| davidsha | Hey | 14:04 |
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| efried | davidsha Howdy! | 14:05 |
| efried | You expecting a meeting to be happening now? | 14:05 |
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| davidsha | efried: common classifier? | 14:05 |
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| efried | davidsha This channel has been silent for the past 9.5h, so... | 14:06 |
| efried | davidsha Ah, I see a ML note that the meeting is off today. | 14:07 |
| davidsha | efried: Ah, thanks! | 14:07 |
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| davidsha | efried: was just about to check, have a good day! | 14:07 |
| efried | davidsha http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-May/116177.html | 14:08 |
| efried | Are you the David in question? ;-) | 14:08 |
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| davidsha | efried: maybe... | 14:10 |
| davidsha | efried: I guess I can return to my annual leave then! | 14:10 |
| efried | :) | 14:11 |
| davidsha | efried: see ya! | 14:11 |
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| chenying | #startmeeting karbor | 15:08 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 2 15:08:05 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is chenying. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:08 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:08 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'karbor' | 15:08 |
| chenying | hi | 15:08 |
| *** galstrom is now known as galstrom_zzz | 15:09 | |
| chenying | There is no topic on the agenda right now. Do you have anything want to talk about - now is the time | 15:09 |
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| chenying | #endmeeting | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:13 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 2 15:13:12 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:13 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-05-02-15.08.html | 15:13 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-05-02-15.08.txt | 15:13 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-05-02-15.08.log.html | 15:13 |
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| ihrachys | #startmeeting neutron_ci | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 2 16:01:14 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| ihrachys | o/ | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ci' | 16:01 |
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| ihrachys | jlibosva, seems like we are two huh ;) | 16:01 |
| jlibosva | \o | 16:01 |
| ihrachys | anyhoo | 16:01 |
| ihrachys | #topic Action items from prev meeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from prev meeting (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:01 | |
| * jlibosva ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 16:01 | |
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| ihrachys | first was "jlibosva to revise TESTING doc to update about test_install_flood_to_tun gate status with UCA used for Pike" | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | I think that happened | 16:02 |
| jlibosva | yep, I think so too | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | this: https://review.openstack.org/457722 | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | next was "ihrachys to figure out why gerrit dashboard seems to not show some gate-failure fixes" | 16:03 |
| ihrachys | that is a classic pebak | 16:03 |
| ihrachys | the review dashboard hides patches that you reviewed, and since I reviewed most if not all of them when I was checking, I couldn't seem much there | 16:03 |
| ihrachys | next was "ihrachys to report a bug for fullstack connectivity failures" | 16:04 |
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| ihrachys | instead of that, jlibosva figured that was kernel ovs module not compiled after UCA switch | 16:04 |
| ihrachys | fixed in all branches, master fix: https://review.openstack.org/458591 | 16:04 |
| ihrachys | I think the job still shows bad behaviour, but a different one; we will have a look later. | 16:05 |
| ihrachys | next was "jlibosva to report a bug for scenario failures" | 16:05 |
| ihrachys | the scenario jobs are close to 100% still | 16:05 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, have you got a chance to look at those or report a bug? | 16:05 |
| * jlibosva scratches his head | 16:05 | |
| jlibosva | I think I didn't | 16:05 |
| jlibosva | no, I don't see any bug reported by me, I somehow forgot | 16:06 |
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| ihrachys | ok, np. will you have time for that? | 16:07 |
| ihrachys | or I can have a look | 16:07 |
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| jlibosva | it seems that vlan interface in trunk test can't get dhcp address | 16:08 |
| clarkb | can you not stop compiling ovs if the version is newer in uca than what you need? | 16:08 |
| ihrachys | clarkb, for fullstack, we need 2.6.x | 16:08 |
| ihrachys | and it's 2.5.x in UCA | 16:08 |
| jlibosva | I'm thinking about disabling port security for trunk tests | 16:08 |
| clarkb | ihrachys: so the check for 2.5.1 was just buggy? | 16:08 |
| ihrachys | we stopped compilation in functional since 2.5.x is enough there | 16:08 |
| ihrachys | clarkb, yeah | 16:09 |
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| jlibosva | clarkb: ihrachys what? it worked, no? | 16:09 |
| jlibosva | once we got newer, we stopped compiling | 16:09 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, whatever reflects actual usage of the api. but is it a must to have port sec disabled? | 16:09 |
| clarkb | jlibosva: right but you needed to continue compiling | 16:09 |
| clarkb | jlibosva: so the bug was in stopping compiling even though you needed to compile | 16:10 |
| clarkb | sounds like if the check was >=2.6 would be fine | 16:10 |
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| jlibosva | ihrachys: it is until I fix ovs fw which needs some ovs patches that currently doesn't work with dvr. | 16:10 |
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| jlibosva | ihrachys: so until then, I would be fine by disabling port-security | 16:10 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, then let's reflect that with a caveal like a bug mentioned somewhere with TODO | 16:10 |
| ihrachys | you think it will help? | 16:10 |
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| jlibosva | clarkb: we have two kind of tests, functional and fullstack. For functional we needed 2.5.1 userspace and for fullstack, we still do compile kernel module | 16:11 |
| jlibosva | not userspace anymore tho | 16:11 |
| ihrachys | clarkb, right, what jlibosva said, we also reduced the scope of compilation | 16:11 |
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| jlibosva | ihrachys: yep, we can enable once the firewall works for trunk use-case | 16:12 |
| jlibosva | ihrachys: but it wasn't 100% before | 16:12 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, I smell you are going to post a patch? | 16:12 |
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| jlibosva | so maybe it's not the firewall | 16:12 |
| jlibosva | ihrachys: I should, I have 4 days then I'm gone for 3 weeks :-/ | 16:12 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, oh I see. we may cancel next meetings till you are back. | 16:13 |
| ihrachys | #action jlibosva to post a patch to disable port sec for trunk scenarios | 16:13 |
| jlibosva | ihrachys: ack | 16:13 |
| ihrachys | if you don't, or it doesn't help much, I will have a look at the job next weke. | 16:13 |
| ihrachys | *week | 16:13 |
| ihrachys | and thanks | 16:13 |
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| ihrachys | next was "ihrachys to clean up gate-failure tagged bugs list" | 16:14 |
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| ihrachys | I did, closed some, dupped others... | 16:14 |
| ihrachys | next was "ihrachys to look at what the functional spike yesterday was" | 16:14 |
| ihrachys | but I did not because... | 16:14 |
| ihrachys | next was "ihrachys to propose voting for functional job" | 16:14 |
| ihrachys | and jlibosva was kind to post the patch instead of me | 16:14 |
| ihrachys | https://review.openstack.org/460205 | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | and it's merged | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | so now functional is in both voting queue | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | *queues | 16:15 |
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| ihrachys | which is a huge progress I must say | 16:15 |
| jlibosva | and yay to so far results, although I think we didn't have that many patches going in over weekend and bank holidays in some countries | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | and it seems like it's going smooth | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | ok that's all AIs we had | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | #topic Grafana | 16:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Grafana (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:16 | |
| ihrachys | #link http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate | 16:16 |
| ihrachys | several major issues there | 16:16 |
| ihrachys | one is api job going up, currently at 35% but I believe it's going to 100% | 16:16 |
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| ihrachys | yamamoto posted a fix: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/461661/ | 16:16 |
| ihrachys | that's related to keystone v2 disablement | 16:16 |
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| ihrachys | I am not sure about the fix proposed. seems like it just skips tests. | 16:17 |
| ihrachys | instead of making it work in new environment | 16:17 |
| ihrachys | unless yamamoto gets back in next hours, I will have a look at reworking the patch so that it passes those test cases for v3 | 16:17 |
| ihrachys | there is also rally job failure trend going up | 16:18 |
| ihrachys | for basically same issue | 16:18 |
| ihrachys | that should already be fixed with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/461686/ | 16:18 |
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| ihrachys | (again yamamoto was rapid to tackle it) | 16:18 |
| jlibosva | maybe we could merge the skip with todo to enable for v2 to unblock the gate? | 16:18 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, that's possible, gotta make it Related-Bug I guess and add some todos | 16:19 |
| ihrachys | I will take care | 16:19 |
| ihrachys | and that's for grafana | 16:19 |
| ihrachys | #topic Python3 strategy | 16:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Python3 strategy (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:19 | |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, so, considering you are going offline this week, do we have anything at this point? | 16:20 |
| jlibosva | nope :( I suck | 16:20 |
| ihrachys | no you don't | 16:20 |
| ihrachys | that's ok :) | 16:20 |
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| ihrachys | I guess it will be on me to get something ready | 16:20 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, btw do you go to the summit? | 16:21 |
| jlibosva | I'll be at the summit next week so I hope I'll talk to relevant people there | 16:21 |
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| jlibosva | ihrachys: yes :) so I won't be totally offline, I hope some work will be done from my side | 16:21 |
| ihrachys | ok, cool. yeah. maybe talk to kevinbenton to understand what's the plan there, and who's going to take care. | 16:21 |
| ihrachys | I don't feel at this point I will have time for that in the end. but we'll see. | 16:22 |
| ihrachys | I mean, not actually implementing the thing. I can write up and rant ofc. | 16:22 |
| ihrachys | #action jlibosva to talk to higher summit beings on python3 gate strategy for Pike | 16:22 |
| jlibosva | I think it should be somehow similar to what other projects do | 16:23 |
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| ihrachys | could be worth checking what's the minimal we can do to tick it | 16:23 |
| jlibosva | We'll need to consider the amount of jobs we run and the fact that we might lose some of resources due to osic shutdown | 16:23 |
| jlibosva | if we already haven't | 16:23 |
| ihrachys | cool, I believe in your ability to get to the bottom of it. we can sync later next week. | 16:24 |
| ihrachys | #topic Other patches on review | 16:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other patches on review (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:24 | |
| ihrachys | there is not much that I am aware | 16:24 |
| ihrachys | one thing is stable branches are currrently all failing because of the cinder breakage with lvm | 16:25 |
| ihrachys | that is fixed in master | 16:25 |
| ihrachys | I requested backports here: https://review.openstack.org/#q,I4f40a1984fe828c8ff965033f7e25b1d7516ab1e,n,z | 16:25 |
| ihrachys | once those are in, we should be able to recheck all failed patches | 16:25 |
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| smcginnis | ihrachys: Hoping to have those approved shortly. | 16:26 |
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| ihrachys | smcginnis, thanks for quick review | 16:26 |
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| smcginnis | ihrachys: No problem | 16:26 |
| ihrachys | and that's about it I guess. I am not aware of any patches of particular interest. | 16:26 |
| ihrachys | ok I guess that's it for the meeting. have fun on the summit. I will definitely cancel the next meeting, and probably two more unless someone shows a particular interest in having those. | 16:27 |
| jlibosva | I have one update re fullstack | 16:27 |
| ihrachys | #action ihrachys to cancel next team meetings | 16:27 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, shoot | 16:27 |
| jlibosva | I spent some time looking at the trunk failure | 16:27 |
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| ihrachys | #topic Open discussion | 16:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:28 | |
| jlibosva | and I don't understand the root cause yet but basically when we remove a port from trunk bridge, (ovs-vsctl del-port) it removes the bridge itself | 16:28 |
| jlibosva | which sounds like an issue in ovs | 16:28 |
| ihrachys | :-o | 16:28 |
| jlibosva | then later, agent thinks that trunk bridge was cleaned up and leaves patch ports on integration bridge behind | 16:28 |
| jlibosva | I'm trying to create a minimal reproducer outside of fullstack tests to report bug to openvswitch if confirmed that's it's really the issue | 16:29 |
| ihrachys | do we have a bug reported for that? would make sense to capture those details somewhere. | 16:29 |
| jlibosva | a simple add-br, add-port and following del-port doesn't reproduce it | 16:29 |
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| jlibosva | no bug reported yet, I'll report one once I have the reproducer | 16:29 |
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| ihrachys | may make sense to report one just for the sake of gate breakage tracking | 16:30 |
| jlibosva | and that's about fullstack | 16:30 |
| ihrachys | #action jlibosva to report fullstack trunk failure bug once he has a reproducer | 16:30 |
| jlibosva | the ovs bugs are reported to ovs-discuss mailing list :-/ | 16:30 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, oh. have a link handy for the ovs-discuss? | 16:31 |
| jlibosva | so far I have this: http://paste.openstack.org/show/608616/ | 16:31 |
| jlibosva | ihrachys: that's a ML but I haven't reported the bug there yet | 16:31 |
| jlibosva | https://mail.openvswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/ovs-discuss | 16:32 |
| jlibosva | ihrachys: ^^ | 16:32 |
| ihrachys | ah I misunderstood | 16:32 |
| ihrachys | thought you raised something to the ML | 16:32 |
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| jlibosva | about the paste - I'm able to reproduce by simple del-br ovs-vsctl command. So I need to figure out what the bridge needs to be removed by ovs. | 16:33 |
| ihrachys | you mean by del-port | 16:33 |
| jlibosva | ah, no, I haven't yet. But I hope tomorrow I'll come up with reproducer script | 16:33 |
| jlibosva | yeah, del-port :) | 16:33 |
| ihrachys | :) otherwise it would make sense. | 16:33 |
| ihrachys | ok sounds scary. | 16:33 |
| ihrachys | wonder if we use it correct. | 16:33 |
| ihrachys | though nothing pops | 16:33 |
| ihrachys | ok thanks for the update, really interesting. | 16:34 |
| jlibosva | that's all from me | 16:34 |
| ihrachys | enjoy the rest of the hour, and summit, and PTOs, and lifed | 16:34 |
| ihrachys | *life | 16:34 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 16:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:34 | |
| jlibosva | :D | 16:34 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 2 16:34:30 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:34 |
| jlibosva | thanks | 16:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-05-02-16.01.html | 16:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-05-02-16.01.txt | 16:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-05-02-16.01.log.html | 16:34 |
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| lbragstad | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 2 18:00:02 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | ping antwash, ayoung, breton, cmurphy, dstanek, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, notmorgan, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, samueldmq, spilla | 18:00 |
| breton | yey | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:00 |
| cmurphy | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | agenda ^ | 18:00 |
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| lbragstad | o/ | 18:00 |
| gagehugo | o/ | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:00 |
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| lamt | o/ | 18:01 |
| lbragstad | we have a pretty light agenda today - so we'll give it a minute | 18:01 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:01 |
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| dstanek | that's my favorite kind of agenda | 18:02 |
| lbragstad | :) | 18:02 |
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| edmondsw | what did I miss... no agenda for today? | 18:03 |
| lbragstad | #topic announcements | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| lbragstad | edmondsw https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:03 |
| lbragstad | edmondsw a very light one :) | 18:03 |
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| lbragstad | first up - I've made an addition to our core team | 18:04 |
| breton | yey! | 18:04 |
| rodrigods | \o/ | 18:04 |
| edmondsw | :) | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | #info cmurphy is now keystone-core | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | :) | 18:04 |
| breton | cmurphy: congrats | 18:04 |
| rodrigods | congrats cmurphy | 18:04 |
| edmondsw | +1 | 18:04 |
| cmurphy | :) yay | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | i feel that has been long over due - regardless | 18:04 |
| gagehugo | grats! | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | cmurphy thanks for all the quality code reviews and hard work | 18:05 |
| cmurphy | i will try not to break keystone too badly | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | :) | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | also | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | we won't be having a meeting next week | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | since some will be at the forum | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | I'll send a reminder after the meeting today | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | which brings us to our next topic | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | #topic forum | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "forum (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:07 | |
| lbragstad | is there anything folks need for the forum next week? | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | i'll be getting into boston sunday night and leaving on friday | 18:07 |
| gagehugo | lbragstad good suggestions for food? | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | gagehugo clam chowder and lobster rolls | 18:08 |
| gagehugo | +1 | 18:08 |
| edmondsw | I assume we hit up ayoung for food suggestions | 18:08 |
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| lbragstad | edmondsw ++ | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | ayoung took us to a few awesome places when we had the midcycle there a couple years ago | 18:08 |
| gagehugo | oh nice | 18:08 |
| dstanek | congrats cmurphy! you earned it | 18:08 |
| cmurphy | ty dstanek | 18:09 |
| breton | ask dims, he knows things around there | 18:09 |
| dims | vegetarian? :) | 18:09 |
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| lbragstad | dims I'm down ;) | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | if anyone needs anything prior to the forum, don't hesitate to ping me | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | #topic open discussion | 18:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:10 | |
| lbragstad | does anyone have anything they'd like to talk about? | 18:11 |
| breton | which specs are affected by recent layoffs? | 18:11 |
| lbragstad | well - most of the policy in code and policy docs works was done | 18:12 |
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| lbragstad | i think there are only a few patches left to implement both of those | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | quota limits is still in the pipe | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | not sure if anyone is able to pick that up though | 18:13 |
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| lbragstad | the api keys spec is probably going to be affected | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/450415/ | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/363765/ | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | quotas ^ | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | and limits^ | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | actually, that's the wrong link | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/455709/ | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | quotas and limits ^ | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | i think project tags is still on the roadmap | 18:16 |
| * lbragstad #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/431785/ | 18:16 | |
| gagehugo | yeah ^ | 18:16 |
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| gagehugo | I can take a look at api keys as well, I think I understand it from what was discussed at the PTG | 18:17 |
| gagehugo | It's definitely a useful feature | 18:17 |
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| lbragstad | gagehugo cool - the limits stuff is also going to be a big one since i know nova was staging work for Queens based on us getting limits implemented in Pike | 18:17 |
| gagehugo | lbragstad yeah limits is a hot topic | 18:18 |
| lbragstad | sdague has an initial interface defined for that work | 18:18 |
| lbragstad | but we really need to review it | 18:18 |
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| lbragstad | i don't think the implementation should be too hard, its mostly designing the interface | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | hi, sorry I am late | 18:20 |
| samueldmq | cmurphy: congrats! | 18:21 |
| cmurphy | :) | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | am i missing anything specs wise? | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | this is probably a loaded question - but is anyone looking to pick up any of the affected specs (outside of gagehugo looking into api-keys)? | 18:23 |
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| lbragstad | I can make a point to refactor or update the affected specs in review after the Forum | 18:25 |
| lbragstad | i'm sure there is going to be talk about policy and limits at the Forum, and if that's an opportunity for us to get help then I'll leave it open | 18:25 |
| lbragstad | otherwise, our priorities will rescope a bit for Pike given the circumstances | 18:26 |
| lbragstad | #action lbragstad to update all specs after the forum with relevant discussions regarding updated Pike roadmap | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | anyone have anything else? | 18:27 |
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| lbragstad | cool - looks like we'll get some time back today | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | thanks for coming | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | #endmeeting | 18:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:28 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 2 18:28:42 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:28 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-05-02-18.00.html | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | thnaks | 18:28 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-05-02-18.00.txt | 18:28 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-05-02-18.00.log.html | 18:28 |
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| fungi | infra team, arise! | 19:00 |
| fungi | this week we have action items assigned to and topics proposed by fungi, pabelanger, clarkb, mordred | 19:00 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:01 |
| ianw | morning! | 19:01 |
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| SotK | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | fungi seeking infra quorum... infra quorum come in | 19:03 |
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| * fungi knows people are around, hopefully busily preparing for their summit talks | 19:03 | |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:04 |
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| fungi | anybody know if mordred is on hand or still travelling? i have a topic on here he proposed, held over from last week | 19:05 |
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| fungi | well, there's a few of us anyway. let's get started and hopefully a few others will wander in and catch up | 19:05 |
| jeblair | fungi: checking now | 19:05 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 2 19:05:48 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:05 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:05 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
| jeblair | fungi: mordred will arrive in a few mins | 19:06 |
| fungi | #info If you still haven't yet, let fungi know whether you hope to attend the PTG in Denver this September so he can get a rough head count | 19:06 |
| fungi | thanks jeblair! | 19:06 |
| fungi | as always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings | 19:06 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-04-25-19.02.html | 19:06 |
| fungi | fungi put forth proposal to flatten git namespaces | 19:06 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/461878 Goodbye Git Namespaces | 19:06 |
| fungi | don't all gasp in surprise at once now | 19:06 |
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| fungi | much of it was lifted from the etherpad ttx started | 19:07 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/repo-name-shortening-impact Impact of shortening repository names | 19:07 |
| fungi | it's sort of a straw man, i have a feeling the eventual list of changes needed to be so daunting/scary as to put us off our lunch anyway | 19:07 |
| fungi | i'm sure there's a ton of stuff i missed under the needed changes, so feel free to comment/update with whatever you think should be there | 19:07 |
| fungi | pabelanger Open an Ubuntu SRU for bug 1251495 | 19:07 |
| openstack | bug 1251495 in mailman (Ubuntu Trusty) "Lists with topics enabled can throw unexpected keyword argument 'Delete' exception." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251495 | 19:07 |
| fungi | any luck? | 19:08 |
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| pabelanger | yes, I have an ubuntu xenial chroot running locally now. I did bubblewrap this morning, I can switch to mailman now | 19:08 |
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| pabelanger | I'll be in good shape for our next meeting I believe | 19:09 |
| fungi | cool. well the (veritably ancient) action item was about requesting an sru from the package maintainers but i guess we could consider maintaining our own backport ppa of it instead | 19:09 |
| clarkb | I think an sru should be put in place regardless? seems like other people using trusty may want working mailman | 19:09 |
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| pabelanger | yes, I plan on pushing up the SRU first depending how slow, we could PPA it also | 19:10 |
| fungi | yeah, it's mostly (if i recall correctly) a matter of fillinh out a text template with the argument for wanting teh fix backported to an lts | 19:10 |
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| fungi | s/fillinh/filling/ | 19:10 |
| * mordred waves | 19:10 | |
| pabelanger | yes, I'm going to show up with backport in hand too | 19:10 |
| fungi | excellent | 19:11 |
| pabelanger | that should help move along the SRU | 19:11 |
| fungi | #action pabelanger Open an Ubuntu SRU for bug 1251495 | 19:11 |
| openstack | bug 1251495 in mailman (Ubuntu Trusty) "Lists with topics enabled can throw unexpected keyword argument 'Delete' exception." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251495 | 19:11 |
| mordred | ++ to ppa | 19:11 |
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| fungi | clarkb to add citycloud to nodepool | 19:11 |
| mordred | also - sorry I reported that ppas were broken before ... | 19:11 |
| clarkb | Still waiting on them to tell us what region(s) to use | 19:11 |
| clarkb | also how they want us to ramp up usage. | 19:11 |
| clarkb | fungi: do you know if they will be at summit? might be easiest to just have a conversation irl | 19:12 |
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| fungi | i don't know, but wouldn't be surprised. i guess we can ask them | 19:12 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/458621 Update citycloud to non demo accounts | 19:12 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/458622 Add citycloud to nodepool | 19:12 |
| jeblair | clarkb: could just pick one and then they might respond. :) | 19:12 |
| clarkb | the accounts are configured and the passwords file is updated | 19:12 |
| clarkb | jeblair: they wanted to make sure we didn't go crazy and impact their customers so I was trying to avoid that | 19:13 |
| fungi | well, we could pick one and set the quota to 10 and then let them know what we picked | 19:13 |
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| fungi | then they can check the impact at their leisure | 19:13 |
| clarkb | thats true we could start super small and do our best to avoid issues | 19:13 |
| pabelanger | ++ | 19:13 |
| fungi | #action clarkb to add citycloud to nodepool | 19:14 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:14 | |
| clarkb | I have a feeling that if we just sit down with them (maybe even over the phone) and have synchronous conversation we could work through ti quickly though | 19:14 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:14 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #topic Specs approval | 19:14 |
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| fungi | yeah, probably. maybe their op we've been e-mailing is in irc? | 19:14 |
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| clarkb | thats a good question. I'll send a followup email and ask about synchronous comms | 19:15 |
| fungi | cool, thanks! anything else? | 19:15 |
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| clarkb | nope | 19:15 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
| fungi | we don't seem to have anything new up this week | 19:15 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
| fungi | nothing called out specifically here | 19:15 |
| fungi | #topic Move dib bugs to storyboard? (mordred) | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Move dib bugs to storyboard? (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
| fungi | this was held over from last week | 19:16 |
| fungi | (we ran out of time if memory serves) | 19:16 |
| mordred | ah - yes, this | 19:16 |
| mordred | it was mostly that I noticed that dib was still in launchpad for bugs | 19:16 |
| fungi | their bug tracker is also quite active | 19:16 |
| mordred | I don't have a particular burning need to move/change anything | 19:16 |
| fungi | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/diskimage-builder | 19:16 |
| mordred | but figured I'd bring it up | 19:17 |
| fungi | 64 open currently | 19:17 |
| ianw | yes, occasionally we purge it, hasn't happened for a while | 19:17 |
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| fungi | maybe we can start by reaching out to the diskimage-builder-core team and gauging their interest in migrating to sb now | 19:18 |
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| mordred | sounds like a good plan to me | 19:19 |
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| fungi | SpamapS, devananda, cinerama and greghaynes are in channel, though not sure how many of them are around at the moment | 19:19 |
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| fungi | nor how many of them are still active on dib | 19:19 |
| fungi | we could take ianw's temperature on it now at least, i guess ;) | 19:20 |
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| ianw | is there an advantage other than being more infraish? | 19:20 |
| fungi | does dib have a lot of cross-project bugs? | 19:21 |
| ianw | tbh i just see it as being a bit confusing for people who use launchpad for other things | 19:21 |
| fungi | right, infra switched to using sb mainly so we could dogfood it (and to try and encourage us to pitch in on making it better) | 19:21 |
| ianw | yes-ish ... bugs mostly come in from people using it in other contexts | 19:21 |
| ianw | bugs from infra usually come in via irc or reviews :) | 19:21 |
| fungi | right, i think that's been a bit of an faq/known issue (sb could stand to have a dedicated interface themed specifically for defect reporting) | 19:22 |
| mtreinish | ianw: but could that be a symptom of being on storyboard? | 19:22 |
| greghaynes | ohai | 19:23 |
| greghaynes | fungi: yes, dib does tend to have a lot of cross project bugs | 19:24 |
| fungi | anyway, i'm content for the dib contributors continue on lp for now if they want, no pressure on my part | 19:24 |
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| fungi | and having lots of cross-project bugs shared with, say, tripleo or other teams still using lp is plenty of reason to not move unless/until they also move | 19:25 |
| greghaynes | that'd be my big concern, we get a lot of bugs from ironic, octavia, etc | 19:25 |
| greghaynes | agreed | 19:25 |
| fungi | yep, makes sense | 19:25 |
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| fungi | anyway, since mordred raised the question, i'll leave it up to him to get wider feedback if he's still interested | 19:26 |
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| ianw | mtreinish: you mean that we don't file bugs in infra? i dunno ... I think we just get straight to it and send up reviews generally, i don't recall ever needing much out-of-band discussion/investigation in bugs | 19:27 |
| mtreinish | ianw: yeah, that's my argument people just assume there isn't a bug tracker because it's on storyboard. So they just push reviews and talk on irc | 19:27 |
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| mtreinish | because they don't have another mechanism | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | i don't like paperwork, no matter what color the paper is. | 19:27 |
| ianw | not sure i count that as a problem :) | 19:28 |
| mtreinish | especially if they've been working in the community for long enough from when storyboard didn't support email or paging... | 19:28 |
| ianw | as alan cox said at a LCA many years ago, quickest way to get something fixed is an obviously incorrect patch | 19:28 |
| fungi | we mostly create stories for tracking tasks on our specs, and even that feels a little like something we never got around to leveraging most of the time | 19:28 |
| fungi | (zuulv3 being an obvious counterexample) | 19:29 |
| fungi | anyway, this is drifting off-topic a bit and we have some other topics to cover in the remaining 30 minutes | 19:30 |
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| fungi | did anybody else have anything specific to the possibility of dib moving their bugs to storyboard before i move on? | 19:30 |
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| ianw | no, i think "sufficiently cross-project to say in lp" is good answer, atm | 19:31 |
| fungi | thanks greghaynes and ianw for weighing in from the diskimage-builder-core seats! | 19:32 |
| greghaynes | anytime :) | 19:32 |
| fungi | #topic Skip next week's IRC meeting due to Summit? (fungi) | 19:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Skip next week's IRC meeting due to Summit? (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:32 | |
| fungi | many of us are going to be at the summit/forum next week | 19:32 |
| clarkb | I think I may even be leading a forum session during this meetings scheduled runtime | 19:32 |
| fungi | including me | 19:32 |
| fungi | are there enough not attending the summit that someone wants to chair in my absence? | 19:33 |
| jeblair | ++. also, i will not be available the tuesday after either. | 19:33 |
| fungi | i get home on the sunday after the summit, but skipping the next two meetings might still be a good idea | 19:33 |
| fungi | not sure how much steam i'll have by tuesday | 19:33 |
| clarkb | oh ya I will be in a plane the next tuesday | 19:34 |
| jeblair | (tuesday following is my summit return travel day) | 19:34 |
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| pabelanger | no objection for skipping | 19:34 |
| mordred | ++ skip | 19:35 |
| fungi | okay, so seems there's some agreement for skipping the next two (may 9 and 16)? | 19:35 |
| fungi | #info The Infra team will not be holding a weekly IRC meeting for the next two weeks (skipping May 9 and 16) on account of there's a Summit afoot | 19:36 |
| fungi | any objections before i move on? | 19:36 |
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| fungi | #topic Import ancient LP archive of general ML (fungi) | 19:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Import ancient LP archive of general ML (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:37 | |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/lists.o.o-openstack-archive-import General "openstack" ML Launchpad Archive Import | 19:38 |
| fungi | after some discussion last week wherein dhellmann was particularly interested in getting his hands on a copy of the ml posts from before we moved it off lp, i drafted the above plan | 19:38 |
| * dhellmann perks up his ears | 19:38 | |
| fungi | i was originally going to propose having a brief mailman outage this week to put it into effect, and coordinating to make sure sufficient people are on hand to test so we know whether it worked or needs a rollback | 19:39 |
| fungi | but i'm not feeling it, what with talk/travel prep going on, and i have a feeling most of the rest of you are pretty distracted too | 19:39 |
| jeblair | i've looked that over and it seems reasonable, though i am not so completely versed in the archive scripts to provide an unconditional money-back guarantee. | 19:39 |
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| fungi | so maybe i'll round some people up later week after next once we're all rested up a little | 19:40 |
| fungi | thanks for reviewing that, jeblair | 19:40 |
| jeblair | fungi: i'd be happy to help during either timeframe | 19:40 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I can definitely wait | 19:40 |
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| dhellmann | I do intend to start using the data once it's up, but I don't think there's a need to rush | 19:41 |
| fungi | well, i'm flying out in two days and don't feel like doing it _from_ boston if i can help it ;) | 19:41 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 19:41 |
| fungi | also if anyone else has any input on it, feel free to update the etherpad i linked | 19:41 |
| clarkb | I definitely defer mail related things to those that know better | 19:42 |
| clarkb | but am happy to help out week after next | 19:42 |
| fungi | cool, seems like we can probably make that happen pretty comfortably | 19:42 |
| pabelanger | same, happy to help where I can | 19:42 |
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| fungi | #link Zuulv3 git repo for opentack-infra jobs (pabelanger) | 19:42 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:42 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #link Zuulv3 | 19:42 |
| fungi | wrong tag ;) | 19:42 |
| fungi | #topic Zuulv3 git repo for opentack-infra jobs (pabelanger) | 19:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zuulv3 git repo for opentack-infra jobs (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:42 | |
| fungi | you're up | 19:42 |
| fungi | something something config projects, something something untursted repo | 19:43 |
| clarkb | also is the dest path for the zcat correct? its openstack.mbox/openstack.mbox? | 19:43 |
| pabelanger | So, this came up today in #zuul. I think we might be ready to discuss a new repo we'd use for zuulv3 jobs. | 19:43 |
| fungi | clarkb: yep, strange i know | 19:43 |
| clarkb | oh sorry we switched topics, | 19:43 |
| pabelanger | today, project-config is considered a config-project, but we don't have untrusted-project repo for our jobs yet | 19:43 |
| jeblair | mordred, SpamapS: ^ topic-of-interest courtesy ping | 19:43 |
| pabelanger | maybe something like openstack-zuul-jobs is where out openstack-infra jobs would like, like tox for example | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | this is outside of the stdlib we are thinking of creating in zuul | 19:44 |
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| clarkb | and the reason they wouldn't live in project-config is so that changes to them could be self testing? | 19:44 |
| jeblair | to (maybe) clarify: a config-project is especially trusted by zuul, and as such, does not recognize dynamic configuration | 19:45 |
| jeblair | clarkb: exactly ^ | 19:45 |
| pabelanger | yes, thanks you | 19:45 |
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| pabelanger | it is also nice to have dynamic configuration, it allows for fast iteration of jobs | 19:45 |
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| fungi | what sorts of jobs do you expect would be defined there? our puppet integration testing maybe? | 19:46 |
| jeblair | so we're probably going to want to put things like "publish to pypi" in config-projects. we could put as much other stuff as we want there as well, but we may find it more fun to put more job definitions in regular untrusted projects to increase the amount of self-testing available to them. | 19:46 |
| pabelanger | for example, I would like to move http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/zuul/tree/playbooks/tox?h=feature/zuulv3 into this new repo. These are tox jobs specific to openstack-infra today | 19:46 |
| fungi | and you wouldn't want them in the zuul repo since that's what they're testing? | 19:46 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: by specific to 'openstack-infra' you mean 'specific to the zuul instance run by openstack-infra for the openstack project' yeah? | 19:47 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: (as opposed to, specific to openstack-infra repos like zuul or nodepool or gear or ...) | 19:47 |
| pabelanger | yes, we our tox jobs today in feature/zuulv3 still depend on our jenkins slave scripts | 19:47 |
| pabelanger | right, zuul instance run by openstack-infra | 19:48 |
| fungi | so you're talking about a common repo for the infra team's integration tests for their deliverables | 19:48 |
| pabelanger | common repo for all our openstack project integration tests | 19:48 |
| jeblair | s/integration// ? | 19:48 |
| fungi | obviously (maybe not obviously?) if a job is specific to testing changes for, say, the bindep tool then we'd put the job definitions for that in the bindep repo | 19:48 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: yes | 19:49 |
| jeblair | fungi: that seems obvious to me, yes. | 19:49 |
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| clarkb | basically this would be a place for py27 job to live as well as pep8/linters etc. They are common across much of what we run but aren't necessarily integration tests either | 19:49 |
| fungi | okay, so the common repo pabelanger is talking about then would be broader than just infra team deliverable integration tests, like say devstack-gate stuff? | 19:49 |
| clarkb | and yes eventually devstack-gate I imagine | 19:50 |
| fungi | py27 and linters wouldn't just be in teh stdlib? | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | fungi: i'd avoid d-g as an example since i think d-g stuff can probably live in d-g. | 19:50 |
| clarkb | fungi: no, I think people feel like the way we run tox is too openstacky | 19:50 |
| fungi | okay, fair enough | 19:50 |
| clarkb | because we do things to make tox suckless | 19:50 |
| pabelanger | fungi: maybe? but today they depend on /usr/local/jenkins scripts | 19:50 |
| fungi | right, got it. we don't just run tox | 19:51 |
| clarkb | (which assume either nose or testr for example) | 19:51 |
| jeblair | my guess as to how that will play out: zuul.stdlib has a tox role and a tox job. but we only use the tox role. we use it inside of a custom openstack tox job which does all the other openstacky stuff. that job will go in the repo pabelanger is proposing. | 19:52 |
| jeblair | (that's just one of many possibilities, but it's the assumption i'm currently working from) | 19:52 |
| jeblair | (subject to change :) | 19:52 |
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| fungi | yeah, i guess run_tox.sh has grown far beyond the handful of lines i remember it being long ago | 19:52 |
| fungi | okay, my confusion is dispelled now | 19:53 |
| pabelanger | sounds like people are generate okay with the idea then? | 19:53 |
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| pabelanger | generally* | 19:53 |
| fungi | i'm in favor of trying whatever sounds sensible until we collect enough data that convinces us we should do something different | 19:53 |
| jeblair | maybe, just maybe, we find that those are all sensible things for all tox users to be doing, and we can just use the zuul.stdlib job. even if that's the case, i'm certain we'll have more 'openstack-wide general job definitions' that should go in that repo. | 19:54 |
| fungi | this seems fine to me | 19:54 |
| pabelanger | okay, I'll propose a patch for openstack-zuul-jobs then | 19:55 |
| fungi | so openstack-zuul-jobs or openstack-zuul-roles would be our "extended library" of roles other job could build on | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | yes, that sounds right | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | I think it could also be a staging area before we moved something into zuul.stdlib too | 19:56 |
| fungi | and act as the catch-all for whenever someone needs some shared mechanism in jobs used by multiple repos and doesn't already have a better place to put it | 19:56 |
| jeblair | a note on naming: it's tempting to call these 'zuul-jobs', but since we're in the position of hosting not only our own instance of zuul, but also zuul itself, i think it's better to reserve '^zuul-.*' names for future zuul-related repos (like the stdlib) | 19:56 |
| fungi | openstack-ci-jobs? | 19:56 |
| * fungi just fell into the bikeshed trap | 19:57 | |
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| jeblair | i meant that in support of 'openstack-zuul-jobs'. but i'm not opposed to openstack-ci-jobs if folks don't like it. | 19:57 |
| fungi | putting the panitbrush down and backing away slowly | 19:57 |
| jeblair | not sure i've ever seen fungi holding a paintbrush | 19:57 |
| * clarkb still thinks all painting can be avoided with uuids | 19:57 | |
| pabelanger | +1 for openstack-zuul-jobs | 19:57 |
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| clarkb | we'll of course need a uuid tracker wallet thing | 19:58 |
| fungi | jeblair: i just finished removing wallpaper from our master bath. paintbrush is next :/ | 19:58 |
| jeblair | clarkb: '/nick 09a34680' is the command you're looking for | 19:58 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes exactly, but need that wallet first | 19:58 |
| fungi | pabelanger: go forth and repo | 19:59 |
| clarkb | what nick does fungi have again? | 19:59 |
| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:59 | |
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| fungi | as mentioned earlier, i'll be travelling starting thursday (may 4) for the summit | 19:59 |
| clarkb | I'm on a plane early friday | 19:59 |
| fungi | taking a couple days to visit friends so don't expect to be around much | 19:59 |
| clarkb | so effectively tomorrow is my last day work working I think | 20:00 |
| fungi | anyway, we're officially holding up the tc meeting now. thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 2 20:00:23 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-05-02-19.05.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-05-02-19.05.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-05-02-19.05.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | knock knock, is this on | 20:00 |
| mriedem | o/ | 20:00 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:00 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 20:00 |
| smcginnis | o/ | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| fungi | *squeeee* | 20:00 |
| mriedem | hasn't started yet | 20:00 |
| ttx | cdent, dims, flaper87, johnthetubaguy, mordred, stevemar: around ? | 20:00 |
| dims | o/ | 20:01 |
| cdent | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 2 20:01:08 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| * edleafe sips tea | 20:01 | |
| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:01 |
| mriedem | o/ | 20:01 |
| smcginnis | Welcome back. | 20:01 |
| ttx | Thanks to dhellmann for chairing the meeting last week, and welcome to our new members | 20:01 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today is at: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | Remember that you can all use #info #idea and #link to help build a more readable summary | 20:01 |
| ttx | #topic Elect chair | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Elect chair (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| ttx | Looks like we only have one candidate, and he has the necessary votes | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | ship it! | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/458774 | 20:02 |
| ttx | So I'll approve that person now | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | ttx: thanks for taking this role on (again) | 20:02 |
| cdent | ttx++ | 20:02 |
| ttx | Thanks for your continued trust, lots of work ahead | 20:02 |
| dims | ++ thanks ttx | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Drop Technical Committee meetings | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Drop Technical Committee meetings (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | After the short discussion at the last meeting, flaper87 posted: | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | ship it (jk) | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/459848 | 20:02 |
| ttx | flaper87: care to introduce it ? | 20:02 |
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| flaper87 | sure | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | so, as mentioned briefly last week | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | the goal is to drop the TC meeting entirely and encourage discussion, voting and decisions to happen asynchronously | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | The existing format adds difficulties for some members of the community | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | It's not horribly worng but I do believe we can do better | 20:03 |
| ttx | As an example, it feels like most of the discussions from today were not stuck, and could have iterated through reviews alright | 20:04 |
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| ttx | So I personally think it's worth a try. | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | As explained in the review, there's space for synchronous discussions when really needed and undercertain circumstances | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | but they are not as needed nowadays as they were in the past | 20:04 |
| EmilienM | I agree with ttx, I like the idea | 20:04 |
| cdent | I think it is worth a try but we really need to make sure we implement office hours and the other "make sure people know how to find us" strategies | 20:04 |
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| flaper87 | WE've adopted tools that allow for more aync work | 20:04 |
| dtroyer | I think we should consider making f2f meetings at summit/ptg a bit more formalized, ala the current thread | 20:04 |
| ttx | I fear that without the weekly rhythm we might get less done, but I'm fine trying it and revisiting | 20:04 |
| dims | ttx : has it worked in the SWG? | 20:04 |
| sdague | so, I guess the question I have is just trying to figure out which issue we are trying to address? | 20:05 |
| smcginnis | I actually hate to see it go, but as ttx broke it out into the goals and how they will still be addressed, I'm willing to give it a shot. | 20:05 |
| cdent | dtroyer++ | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | Yes, office hours is a big part of this | 20:05 |
| ttx | dims: not at all | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | is there any reason we can't change the voting rules without dropping the meetings, so we have some feedback mechanism? | 20:05 |
| ttx | dims: but we did not push a weekly summary | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | sdague: erm, I tried to be explicit about that on the review but I can elaborate more and update the review | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | There are several, really | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | because I think just throwing the meeting out without ensuring that we're still productive isn't going to do us any good | 20:05 |
| sdague | because, if the concern is the meeting is hard to follow so people can't participate, removing the meeting doesn't really make that better | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | There's an issue with the timinig | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | there's issue with participation for non-native english speakers | 20:05 |
| david-lyle | sdague++ | 20:05 |
| dims | if we have adhoc meetings, is it not more difficult for folks to follow? | 20:05 |
| ttx | sdague: there is the issue that it's excluding all people from APAC | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | sdague: that's not the only concern | 20:06 |
| ttx | and that any other time will just be a pain | 20:06 |
| smcginnis | dims: ++ one of my concerns | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | (as mentioned in the review) | 20:06 |
| sdague | ttx: sure, that is a completely fair point | 20:06 |
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| sdague | but it's a different point than "the meetings are hard to follow" which has been a chunk of the feedback | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | I don't object to dropping the meetings eventually. I object to throwing them out without sufficient planning to ensure that this group still functions well. | 20:06 |
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| EmilienM | APAC and EMEA (how many people can stay on a computer at 10pm here?) | 20:06 |
| dims | ++ dhellmann | 20:06 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yeh, for sure | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | so let's work on our discussion and voting rules, and prove that we can actually do the work in the way this proposal wants | 20:07 |
| fungi | noting ways in which this proposal differs somewhat from the way the swg went "meetingless" i'm still suspicious we'll find we communicate less once we do | 20:07 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I don't think the suggestion is to drop them without providing anything to replace them | 20:07 |
| edleafe | Removing meetings will also make it more difficult for those not on the TC to participate | 20:07 |
| sdague | I would personally rather see us phase in what we think are the right other proposals | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | Can we start with a transition plan and reduce the meetings to be every other week for now ? | 20:07 |
| dims | EmilienM : then we should find a slot say 6-7 hours behind what we have now, no? | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | that should give us some time to "try" this | 20:07 |
| sdague | and we'll know if they are working if the meeting ends after 15 minutes | 20:07 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: how do you see things working? because "someone is going to send an email" isn't really enough, imho | 20:08 |
| ttx | dhellmann: an intermediary proposals would be to introduce the whole weekly reminder / expectation of iteration through reviews, and keep the meeting as optional for any needed discussion when needed | 20:08 |
| EmilienM | dims: we would probably loose PST folks. I don't think there is a perfect meeting time | 20:08 |
| fungi | i agree with sdague that we should step up the alternatives before winding down the current scheduled meetings | 20:08 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann ++ | 20:08 |
| dims | ++ fungi | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | sdague: TBH, sometimes the meetings have content because ttx takes the time to also go and dig stuff that would fill the hour. (ttx keep me honest) | 20:08 |
| sdague | flaper87: ok, then lets stop doing that | 20:08 |
| smcginnis | Seems like a simpler thing would be to start with alternating meeting times so all regions at least get a decent time every other week. | 20:08 |
| sdague | that's a pretty concrete thing we could stop | 20:09 |
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| flaper87 | sdague: sure but that doesn't solve the problem with the time | 20:09 |
| sdague | flaper87: it does not | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I think there are smaller steps we could take that would be easier to reverse and less catastrophic if they don't work | 20:09 |
| sdague | but, lets separate the concerns | 20:09 |
| ttx | smcginnis: that just spreads the misery, not the success | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | so, I want to solve that too | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : I do too. Let's work toward it in steps. | 20:09 |
| smcginnis | ttx: Or makes the misery come in alternating waves. | 20:09 |
| sdague | because I think there is a long term concern, the meeting does put geographies in a disadvantage | 20:09 |
| sdague | that's a really thing, we should work towards fixing it | 20:09 |
| sdague | but I think that's step 5 | 20:10 |
| fungi | i've also not seen good examples of alternating meeting times working out effectively (they seem to either end up with one meeting slot nobody attends or they bifurcate into two groups of people who don't cross-pollinate discussions and end up duplicating work) | 20:10 |
| ttx | smcginnis: the current time is the only one that makes it /possible/ for all current members to atgtend it. Any alternate time would not only exclude a part of the world from attending, but also some TC members | 20:10 |
| cdent | Is johnthetubaguy here? Because he's a big driver on this topic because he ... doesn't want to be here, now. | 20:10 |
| sdague | and a big thing is to figure out why every meeting runs until the top of the hour, and tends to want to spill over | 20:10 |
| sdague | and how we stop that naturally happening | 20:10 |
| smcginnis | ttx: Fair point. It definitely would not solve all the concerns here. | 20:10 |
| dims | agree sdague | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | cdent : I'm not sure I buy "I don't want to go to meetings" as a reason to make this change. "I cannot" definitely is. | 20:11 |
| cdent | good point sdague. I reckon that's because we don't talk enough, but perhaps that talking doesn't need to be in meetings, but can be in email? | 20:11 |
| sdague | cdent: perhaps it could be, and perhaps we should try that | 20:11 |
| sdague | but we can try that without getting rid of this bit as well | 20:11 |
| cdent | dhellmann: I'm not saying I support that one way or another, just reminding of one of the reasons why it happening. Since I'm in the same timezone as John, I can certainly sympathize | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | I'd personally be opposed to alternating times. I've tried those in different teams and they didn't work well. I think it's even more confusing | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | cdent : I sympathize, too. your tz is definitely getting close to "cannot" as a reason | 20:12 |
| dims | cdent : since we have new tc members, we should start by trying find a better time for everyone currently in TC | 20:12 |
| ttx | I think meetings provide three things, as I commented on the review | 20:12 |
| ttx | weekly reminder, heated discussions, and an opportunity for reaching out / chat | 20:12 |
| ttx | The weekly report could replace the first part | 20:12 |
| dims | if we do that consistently, that would help with timing i think | 20:12 |
| ttx | but we could in a step 1 keep the weekly meeting (skipping it more often) to cover the tother two | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | if we're going to take the step, I'd like for one agenda item to be "how well are we doing at eliminating the need for this meeting" | 20:13 |
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| ttx | i.e. post a weekly progress email, and only have the weekly meeting if there are stuck things to unblock | 20:13 |
| fungi | as for the "office hours" idea, i'd happily set a reminder for myself covering an americas slot, an emea slot and an apac slot and then make a point of keeping an eye on #openstack-dev (or wherever we decide) for the duration as long as i'm around (and make a point to avoid scheduling myself for conflicting obligations when possible) | 20:13 |
| sdague | dhellmann: ++ | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | and when that's the only thing on the agenda, I'm not sure that's a reason to skip that week | 20:13 |
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| dhellmann | because maybe it means no one reviewed anything :-) | 20:14 |
| sdague | heh | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | we've talked about this topic in person, but really I expected more discussion before we went ahead with anything | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | I mentioned earlier that we could start by having the meeting every other week | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | that sounds also like a good experiment | 20:14 |
| jeblair | fungi: (a phrase people can set as an irc highlight would be useful for ad-hoc openstack-dev conversations) | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : I do not want to change the meetings at all, to start. We need the feedback loop. | 20:14 |
| smcginnis | flaper87: Ah, so not alternating times, but just skip every other week? | 20:15 |
| fungi | jeblair: indeed! like we do for i n f r a - r o o t | 20:15 |
| lbragstad | jeblair that's a good idea | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | this group can mostly manage to be here, and we need to communicate about this change | 20:15 |
| sdague | dhellmann: right, I think the point is to evolve us away from this | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | sdague: yes | 20:16 |
| ttx | do you see any reason why we could not have reached the same conclusion using the review as a medium ? Or some people just do not like to post -1s ahead of the meeting ? | 20:16 |
| sdague | and maybe part of it is really to challenge the agenda more often when ttx sends it out | 20:16 |
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| ttx | i.e. was the meeting necessary to make progress on this particular discussion ? | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | ttx: fwiw, I don't think it was. Some folks did read and posted comments on the review. | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | ttx: one of the things we're going to have to change is our own habits on reviewing those proposals | 20:16 |
| fungi | i tend to defer my governance votes until the meeting because points are often made during the meeting which influence my eventual choice | 20:17 |
| ttx | dhellmann: right, and that can be done before we drop the meeting, I agree | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | but, for example, I did post these concerns and no one responded | 20:17 |
| ttx | the meeting is just like a quick cycle of reviews | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | so if this was my chance to be heard, I don't want to lose that | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | fungi: I've changed my votes on gerrit after reading other folk's comments and views | 20:17 |
| cdent | honestly, gerrit is shitty conversational medium | 20:17 |
| ttx | it just makes it a lot harder for anyone following the discussion | 20:17 |
| fungi | happy to adjust reviewing habits to accommodate a more asynch pattern there | 20:17 |
| sdague | cdent: ++ | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | cdent : ++ | 20:17 |
| sdague | gerrit is really good once you are close to concensus to work out the kinks | 20:18 |
| dims | we'll all definitely switch the way we work when we drop meetings and/or ttx stops sending detailed agenda | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | cdent: it is but then there's also email | 20:18 |
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| sdague | it's definitely not a concensus builder | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | which would increase visibility also in the TC activities | 20:18 |
| cdent | yes, I've been saying all along we need ot use email a lot more | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I think we should move this discussion to email, not gerrit | 20:18 |
| cdent | +1 | 20:18 |
| ttx | dims: I would still post the status of progress on proposals and priority reviews, which would end up looking a lot like the meeting agenda | 20:18 |
| sdague | ok, so, follow on, why wasn't this a TC mailing list thread :) | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | but that's an example of the sort of thing that it may have taken us ages to work out if we were trying to do it on a gerrit review | 20:18 |
| fungi | taking things off the meeting agenda if they're already represented by a governance change could work as a step | 20:19 |
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| ttx | sdague: I don't know, I wasn't around last week :) | 20:19 |
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| flaper87 | sdague: there was one, before the voting, then last week it was proposed but there was not enough time to discuss it. Also, anyone can start the thread if discussion over email is required ;) | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | before the TC election* | 20:19 |
| jeblair | i think we're better at achieving consensus synchronously; with the async mechanisms (email/gerrit) we're often better at exposing many diverse viewpoints, but we're not always great at converging to consensus there. | 20:19 |
| sdague | anyway, so, action... discuss on TC mailing list? | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : that's a good way to put it | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | sdague: no no, -dev mailing list, not TC | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | neatly frames some of my concerns | 20:20 |
| ttx | and next week in person, likely | 20:20 |
| sdague | jeblair: that's definitely true | 20:20 |
| * flaper87 thinks | 20:20 | |
| sdague | flaper87: or that | 20:20 |
| cdent | jeblair: that's true, but I think it is unfair to people who can't attend the meeting. We need to work harder in email. | 20:20 |
| ttx | flaper87: it's somewhere between TC minutia (-tc list) and community change (-dev list) | 20:20 |
| smcginnis | I guess one thing that also helps is the TC can all meet face to face at least every three months for larger discussion needs. | 20:20 |
| jeblair | cdent: yep. and i say that not to say it's not possible. it's worth trying to improve. :) | 20:20 |
| lbragstad | moving to email also helps slow the pace of the conversation for non-english speakers | 20:20 |
| dims | lbragstad : ++ | 20:21 |
| fungi | perhaps if we had some agreement on how to tell when an e-mail thread has reached consensus or needs to wait for more input ;) | 20:21 |
| dims | fungi : AI :) | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : we've mostly not taken advantage of that in the past, in any formal sense | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | lbragstad: one of the reasons why I also think we should get rid of the meeting entirely | 20:21 |
| fungi | maybe we set time limits for feedback on proposals? | 20:21 |
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| sdague | fungi: that just needs a shephard on the conversation | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | lbragstad : although I've had non-native readers also complain to me about having to read a lot of prose (like our vision statement) | 20:21 |
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| sdague | we've had threads that worked well before when someone responds every 3 - 5 days with "this seems to be where we are" | 20:22 |
| fungi | okay, so we need designated shepherds for each thread, or maybe the chair is the poor sucker stuck shepherding them all? | 20:22 |
| sdague | and you reroot the thread | 20:22 |
| cdent | sdague++ yeah that's the formal technique for such things | 20:22 |
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| ttx | ok so action is.. a bit early for a proposal, next step is to push a ML thread about it; and discuss it in person next week | 20:23 |
| lbragstad | dhellmann that's also a good point - is there a lesser of two evils there? | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | lbragstad : write concisely | 20:23 |
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| dims | ML thread on -tc list ttx ? | 20:23 |
| cdent | default to -dev | 20:23 |
| * flaper87 prefers -dev | 20:23 | |
| cdent | ? | 20:23 |
| dims | y just checking to make sure | 20:23 |
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| ttx | dims: see my above answer, could be any, in doubt I would pick -dev | 20:23 |
| fungi | is te concern that not enough people subscribe to the -tc ml? or the moderator load? | 20:24 |
| ttx | #info a bit early for a proposal. Next step: push a ML tread, and discuss it in person next week | 20:24 |
| sdague | -dev is totally fine, as long as we get a commit from all the TC members to actually be reading it | 20:24 |
| ttx | Who is up to push the thread ? | 20:24 |
| sdague | I know that's been an issue in the past | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | ttx: I'll do it | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | fungi : both? | 20:24 |
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| flaper87 | fungi: fwiw, -dev is like using this channel | 20:24 |
| dims | sdague : and reply at least once per thread :) | 20:24 |
| ttx | #action flaper87 to start another -dev thread about this | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | anyone can join, anyone can comment | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | etc | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | no need for mod | 20:24 |
| ttx | OK, let's move on | 20:24 |
| sdague | ++ move on | 20:25 |
| ttx | #topic Do not make decisions using synchronous communication | 20:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Do not make decisions using synchronous communication (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:25 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/460946 | 20:25 |
| fungi | this seems related | 20:25 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy is not around to talk about it | 20:25 |
| ttx | He just W-1 it and will work on a "principle" version of it | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | this feels like step 1 | 20:25 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: what do you mean ? | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | to the process of dropping meetings | 20:26 |
| ttx | ah, ok | 20:26 |
| ttx | I thought step1 would be to be present to support it | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | well, yeah, I meant of the actual implementation | 20:26 |
| sdague | so... how many times in the last cycle did we make decisions synchronously? | 20:26 |
| sdague | like how many #vote instances did we really have? | 20:26 |
| ttx | I would say a couple of times | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | we use gerrit a lot in meeting, but I only remember one #vote case in the last year | 20:27 |
| sdague | I'm all for this one, but it would be good to at least quantify what we are eliminating | 20:27 |
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| flaper87 | but also we wait on meetings to rubber stamp reviews. | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | and now I can't even remember what that was | 20:27 |
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| cdent | it's the "waiting for the meeting to rubber stamp" which I think is the real issue | 20:27 |
| dims | guess this is not just for tc, but for everyone in the community. | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | That, sometimes, feels like we're not using the tool properly. I understand the motivation | 20:27 |
| sdague | dhellmann: but, every gerrit review that gets decided on has been out there for > 1 week right? | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | yeah, the idea was never that we'd wait for meetings to vote | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | sdague : often without sufficient votes to proceed, but yeah | 20:28 |
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| * ttx looks up 2017 meetings real quick | 20:28 | |
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| rocky_g_ | I like the way the api-wg does the reviews and voting | 20:28 |
| sdague | so is this really that there should be a waiting period after sufficient votes are gathered? | 20:28 |
| ttx | "Driver teams: establish new "driver team" concept, or not" | 20:28 |
| ttx | "Glance: Changing response status code. What's the best path forward?" | 20:29 |
| cdent | rocky_g_: me to | 20:29 |
| fungi | seems like, similar to the last topic, letting more involved proposals get approved when they reach quorum+consensus could address a good chunk of the need for asynchronicity? | 20:29 |
| cdent | o | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 20:29 |
| sdague | so, could we add that as a detail | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | sdague : well, I read it as "do not make decisions on irc or in person" and I'm not sure I agree with all of that sentiment, but I do understand it | 20:29 |
| ttx | so twice in the last 4 months | 20:29 |
| sdague | try to avoid #vote in meeting, and all gerrit reviews should wait 3 days between reaching sufficient votes and being approved? | 20:30 |
| fungi | rocky_g_: cdent: can you elaborate? | 20:30 |
| jeblair | ttx: the first instance at least was not exclusive with gerrit voting -- just used to help gauge consensus iirc. i don't recall the second. | 20:30 |
| cdent | review internal, freeze for public review (with email announcements), publish a week later | 20:30 |
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| rocky_g_ | cdent much better than mine woulda been | 20:31 |
| fungi | cdent: thanks, that sounds sensible to me at least | 20:31 |
| ttx | jeblair: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-02-14-20.01.log.html#l-93 | 20:31 |
| notmyname | ttx: is this "no voting" proposal for the TC decisions or one that is to apply to every openstack group? | 20:31 |
| cdent | fungi: to me the good part is the visibility and regular announcements | 20:31 |
| rocky_g_ | ++ | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | notmyname: TC | 20:31 |
| ttx | notmyname: not sure... If it's set as a principle that would affect everyone I guess | 20:31 |
| notmyname | flaper87: ah, ok. that wasn't clear from the gerrit proposal | 20:32 |
| notmyname | oh. flaper87 and ttx don't agree on that :-) | 20:32 |
| sdague | I also want to be careful with "don't make decisions in synchronous fashion" because the real concern is the exclusion not the decision process right? Especially when we know decisions impact folks not in the room. | 20:32 |
| cdent | notmyname: this is not your first rodeo? | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | notmyname: yeah, I believe it came out from my proposal to drop the meeting | 20:32 |
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| dhellmann | flaper87 : then it needs to be documented in our voting rules, not as a principle | 20:32 |
| fungi | obviously if it applies to all of the technical community, then it also applies to the tc (and we should be the first to take it on and prove that it's working for us before we expect anyone else to do the same) | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: sure | 20:33 |
| cdent | I think the intent is principle, because it comes out of the SWG's thinking about increasing diverse participation for everyone, throughout the community, yeah? | 20:33 |
| ttx | flaper87: I think it came out as a consequence (like dhellmann said, feels like first step) but then it feels like johnthetubaguy wants it to be a general principle to guarantee inclusion | 20:33 |
| rocky_g_ | fungi: ++ | 20:33 |
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| flaper87 | what about we just ask johnthetubaguy to send an email about this so we can discuss the idea there? | 20:33 |
| ttx | Also, it'd difficult to reconcile with "the PTL ultimately decides if need be" | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ^ | 20:33 |
| dims | ++ flaper87 | 20:34 |
| ttx | a single-person decision is obviously synchronous | 20:34 |
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| fungi | (and exclusive!) | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | it doesn't make sense for us to keep guessing on what the direction of the proposal actually is | 20:34 |
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| cdent | flaper87, ha, yes | 20:34 |
| ttx | yeah, let's not waste to much effort guessing here | 20:35 |
| fungi | though it _is_ an effective way to fill up an hour ;) | 20:35 |
| ttx | But as much as I like the intent, it's difficult to make it a hard rule I think | 20:35 |
| dims | let's paint it blue | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | (just as an example, some of these questions could be asked on the review and/or a proposal to start a new mailing list thread could be made there: This is not a complain but a highlight of how we can change the way we interact to allow for meetings to be dropped) | 20:35 |
| smcginnis | dims: :) | 20:35 |
| ttx | #info waiting for johnthetubaguy to precise if it's meant as a general rule or just for the TC | 20:35 |
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| ttx | Let's move on to the next topic | 20:36 |
| ttx | #topic Change the target for this goal to uWSGI not Apache mod_wsgi | 20:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Change the target for this goal to uWSGI not Apache mod_wsgi (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:36 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/460951 | 20:36 |
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| ttx | sdague: care to introduce this one ? | 20:36 |
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| sdague | sure, basically when that goal was proposed I suggested we not do it on mod_wsgi, because of technical shortcomings | 20:37 |
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| sdague | it moved forward because no one else signed up to get us over to uwsgi first | 20:37 |
| sdague | I moved all the infrastructure over to uwsgi last month, which is now the default gate mode | 20:37 |
| sdague | we should really be doing that instead | 20:37 |
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| dims | yay, thanks sdague | 20:37 |
| ttx | So the main issue here is that we would change the definition of a goal in the middle of the implementation of it, setting a bad precedent | 20:37 |
| ttx | But then it feels like it's more of a clarification of how the goal shall be reached, than a "change", so this is probably OK. | 20:38 |
| smcginnis | I don't think there has been too much progress there, so now would be the time to switch. | 20:38 |
| cdent | I raised that objection, but I actually think in this case it is not a big deal at all | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I don't have a problem with changing the goal, I just want the text to reflect the change (not just the git history) | 20:38 |
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| dtroyer | ++ | 20:38 |
| ttx | Does it mean avery goal definition should include clear(er) instructions on how to reach it, to avoid such a situation in the future ? | 20:38 |
| sdague | dhellmann: sure, I can update it accordingly post meeting | 20:38 |
| ttx | every* | 20:39 |
| sdague | ttx: well, we should consider some of the downsides of approach | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | ttx: we knew this one might change when we wrote it (hence the hedging about "that's what devstack uses now") | 20:39 |
| sdague | I do remember bringing those up | 20:39 |
| EmilienM | smcginnis: we have a bunch of projects working on it, I think some progress has been made, no? | 20:39 |
| sdague | yeh, that's why that hedge is there | 20:39 |
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| sdague | it's actually a ton easier to do it with this new way | 20:39 |
| smcginnis | EmilienM: Some, but I didn't get the impression it was being done with much urgency and there hasn't been many done making the switch. | 20:40 |
| mriedem | smcginnis: cdent basically has it done for nova | 20:40 |
| mriedem | so there! | 20:40 |
| sdague | ok, so general agreement on this, just put the historical bits in there? | 20:40 |
| smcginnis | mriedem: Oh good, one I can copy for cinder. | 20:40 |
| ttx | sdague: good for me | 20:40 |
| sdague | mriedem: sure, but he's done it on the new way :) | 20:40 |
| cdent | smcginnis: another example is placement | 20:40 |
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| ttx | #info general agreement on this, just put the historical bits in | 20:41 |
| sdague | because he helped me figure out how to do it | 20:41 |
| dims | sdague : would it make sense to somehow signal that the text had an update? when the goal is viewed in the web site | 20:41 |
| EmilienM | so i'm confused, we're updating a goal with a technical change that was already done in Infra? why do we need to discuss then? | 20:41 |
| ttx | sdague: when you mentioned "downsides", were you replying to my "Does it mean avery goal definition" question ? | 20:41 |
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| dhellmann | EmilienM : because the goal is the instructions we've given to teams about what they're supposed to do, and we want it to reflect current reality | 20:42 |
| sdague | EmilienM: because we're still telling people to do it the other way | 20:42 |
| ttx | <ttx> Does it mean avery goal definition should include clear(er) instructions on how to reach it, to avoid such a situation in the future ? | 20:42 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: but sdague already changed infra & devstack things | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : someone looking at the goal does not know that | 20:42 |
| ttx | or should we just expect goals posts can move ? | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | if that change to devstack had happened in queens, we wouldn't need to update the document | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | but this is still an active set of instructions | 20:42 |
| ttx | (as long as they move in the "facilitation" direction) | 20:43 |
| sdague | ttx: I don't know, I think there was a vaguery here | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I think it's OK to move them if it makes things simpler | 20:43 |
| ttx | sdague: ok | 20:43 |
| dtroyer | also, I don't think the goal changed, but the implementation approach did | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : true | 20:43 |
| sdague | dtroyer: right | 20:43 |
| dims | sdague : "Completion Criteria - Updated on May 2, 2017" or some such text | 20:43 |
| sdague | dims: sure | 20:43 |
| ttx | alright, I think we have a way forward, let's switch to next topic ? | 20:43 |
| smcginnis | +1 | 20:43 |
| dtroyer | ++ | 20:43 |
| ttx | #topic TC to have approve authority on maintenance-mode projects | 20:43 |
| sdague | and the goal kind of allowed for that because it had the hedge of "what devstack uses" | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TC to have approve authority on maintenance-mode projects (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:43 | |
| fungi | the infra team has an established history of updating its approved specs to reflect changes in implementation decisions based on new information. this seems like a pretty similar situation | 20:43 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/460963 | 20:44 |
| ttx | sdague: yours again | 20:44 |
| dims | ++ fungi | 20:44 |
| sdague | yes, this is follow on from a couple of weeks ago | 20:44 |
| fungi | (sorry, i'm a terribly slow reader and typist) | 20:44 |
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| sdague | basically if we end up with a project in maintenance mode, I suggested the TC be added to the core team as backstop | 20:44 |
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| sdague | because there are already challenges when we have must approve patches with active core teams | 20:45 |
| ttx | sdague: I suspect our disagreement in the review comes from a glass half-full /half-empty difference in what maintenance-mode really is | 20:45 |
| fungi | if a change is so urgent that the tc needs to step in and approve it because there's nobody on the actual project team available to do so, that seems to me like a project we should go ahead and reture | 20:45 |
| sdague | if the TC has decided to move a thing to maintenance mode, instead of moving it out entirely, the TC should take responsibility for it | 20:45 |
| sdague | fungi: sure | 20:45 |
| fungi | s/reture/retire/ | 20:45 |
| sdague | but that should be the consideration | 20:45 |
| ttx | sdague: I guess, if the *TC* moves it | 20:45 |
| sdague | do we want it in maintenance mode, where TC acts as backstop | 20:46 |
| sdague | or does the TC not want the responsiblity on that project, then move it out | 20:46 |
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| sdague | at least, that model made sense in my head | 20:46 |
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| ttx | sdague: but the current definition of maintenance-mode says that the team must have responsive liaisons and process critical patches | 20:46 |
| sdague | so it's up for debate | 20:46 |
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| ttx | so it feels like we are adding a clause to cover something that does not match the definition | 20:46 |
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| fungi | if the tc needs change approval on a project's deliverables, that could i guess be used to approve the change required to mark it retired (delete all files, replace readme with information on its archival state) | 20:47 |
| sdague | ttx: sure... I guess given that some active projects aren't always responsive there, I'm not sure I fully trust that maintenance mode projects will | 20:47 |
| ttx | in effect, if critical patches don't get merged, the project is failing maintenance-mode requirements | 20:47 |
| EmilienM | does it mean TC should also take care of releasing the project sometimes? (yeah because what's the point of merging patches if we don't release the project) | 20:47 |
| sdague | that's totally possible | 20:47 |
| smcginnis | The alternative is if we end up in a non-responsive situation, we ask infra to add us and take care of it. | 20:47 |
| dtroyer | sdague: it feels like your concern spans more than just maintenance mode | 20:48 |
| smcginnis | So this seems to want to be proactive about that possibility. | 20:48 |
| ttx | smcginnis: and move the project from maintenance-mode to abandoned | 20:48 |
| fungi | smcginnis: agreed | 20:48 |
| ttx | I fear that it would dilute the meaning of maintenance-mode, in a negative way | 20:48 |
| smcginnis | ttx: Which I think is what you're saying - if it comes down to it, we can do that as it is now. | 20:48 |
| sdague | dtroyer: it's possible, again, it's up for discussion | 20:48 |
| ttx | smcginnis: yeah | 20:48 |
| sdague | smcginnis: we can, but I kind of feel we should really be more explicit about this | 20:48 |
| fungi | and as smcginnis points out, the infra team's gerrit admins already have the ability to grant that access or take directed action from the tc as needed | 20:48 |
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| ttx | If we say "we want critical patches to be processed but we'll cover them if you don't" that sends a rather mixed message | 20:49 |
| dtroyer | maybe what we need to be explicit about is jsut "unresponsive teams"? | 20:49 |
| sdague | ttx: it also shows that the TC is willing to put some effort into rekindling the project by handling some class of issues, while the project could rebuild core expertise | 20:49 |
| ttx | dtroyer: I think we already have a process for unresponsive teams where we can step up. I would prefer not to bake it in the maintenance-mode definition | 20:50 |
| dtroyer | I'm suggesting that thsi isn't a maintenace-mode-only thing | 20:50 |
| fungi | an alternative would be for the tc to reserve the right to appoint new core reviewers (or just ptl? though we already have that and could exercise it today) | 20:50 |
| dtroyer | agreed on not limiting it to that tag | 20:50 |
| sdague | because a maintenance-mode project is not going to rekindle if all their bandwidth is on non project things | 20:50 |
| ttx | sdague: maybe we need a under-tc-life-support status, in parallel to the maintenance-mode status, in case teams are unreponsive | 20:51 |
| dtroyer | fungi: exactly, as has already been said, I think we have what we need to day to cover this | 20:51 |
| cdent | the impression I get is that the maintenance-mode tag is woefully under-defined | 20:51 |
| fungi | the rules we have now don't state that we can't appoint ourselves as new owners of a project, it's probably just understood that that could be seen as bad form | 20:51 |
| ttx | basically I see maintenance-mode in a positive way -- going through a hard period so refocusing on the basic essentials | 20:52 |
| ttx | I feel like saying that we half-expect to have to step up shines a negtive light on it | 20:52 |
| sdague | ttx: sure, but the current cores on that project need to spend their time on pbr synchronization instead of mentoring new members | 20:52 |
| sdague | I don't think that brings the project back | 20:52 |
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| ttx | sdague: so you are saying is that TC members are encouraged to step in to help maintenance-mode projects ? | 20:53 |
| sdague | I personally see this as "we want you to recover, so we the TC will help" | 20:53 |
| ttx | err | 20:53 |
| sdague | yes | 20:53 |
| fungi | while i appreciate the sentiment of wanting to pitch in and help out in that situation, i question whether every (or any) tc member elected has the necessary skills to do so (i certainly don't feel that i do anyway) | 20:53 |
| ttx | but we can already do that without signing up the whole TC members as core members | 20:53 |
| cdent | the truth is that whether a project is maintenance mode or not, if it need urgent attention and the project doesn't attend, we step in, right? So why do we need a resolution? | 20:53 |
| sdague | and if the TC membership doesn't want to take that one | 20:53 |
| sdague | then we shouldn't put it into this state | 20:53 |
| EmilienM | fungi: good question. Skills and time. | 20:54 |
| ttx | sdague: basically, if you as a person want to commit time to help a struggling project, that's awesome | 20:54 |
| cdent | we seem to conflating "helping a project" with "dealing with critical things that come up" | 20:54 |
| ttx | I don't think we need to give every TC members core rights to make that happen | 20:54 |
| fungi | and it's that sort of involvement which causes you to be elected to the tc in the first place | 20:54 |
| dims | who is this text signalling to? the people left in the project? or the operators/users? | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | cdent : some of what we're trying to do is write down those undocumented assumptions | 20:55 |
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| sdague | yeh, well, discussion point :) | 20:55 |
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| dims | dhellmann : are we making sure folks who want to apply the tag, we tell them we will back you up? | 20:55 |
| cdent | dhellmann: sure, I guess I had assumed incorrectly that the global power to step in in emergencies was already documented | 20:56 |
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| dhellmann | cdent : that's a good question, and I'm not sure I know the answer. | 20:56 |
| EmilienM | do we have a use-case (or in other words, a project that might have the tag soon), so we can go in concrete examples? | 20:56 |
| sdague | cdent: definitely not documented, which also means that most of the time it's only done because of trust not because of need | 20:56 |
| fungi | cdent: i believe it is (we already document what happens if a ptl disappears or nobody is nominated) | 20:56 |
| ttx | oh well, let's continue on the review | 20:56 |
| cdent | ha, that's three different answers :) | 20:56 |
| dtroyer | EmilienM: the tag was proposed so it could be applied to trove | 20:56 |
| ttx | and move to open discussion | 20:56 |
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| sdague | like if I explain to fungi something really needs to happen, with a good explanation, he'll typically do it | 20:57 |
| EmilienM | dtroyer: right so, let's talk about trove case? | 20:57 |
| dims | cdent : welcome again :) | 20:57 |
| cdent | dims++ | 20:57 |
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| sdague | because he knows I'm not off on crazy land, and I only ask when it's really needed | 20:57 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:57 | |
| fungi | if there's nobody around still to tend to urgent matters on a team, then there is also (effectively at least) no ptl | 20:57 |
| ttx | Boston next week, feels like we could organize a TC dinner for those still standing on Thursday evening | 20:57 |
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| fungi | and we can appoint one (which could be a tc member i suppose) | 20:57 |
| ttx | As cdent suggested we gather to do some work too, I booked a slot in a late Thursday Forum session... so far only johnthetubaguy won't be able to make it | 20:58 |
| sdague | fungi: right, like the "no cores on sqlachemy-migrate" thing | 20:58 |
| dims | ttx : +1 from me | 20:58 |
| smcginnis | ttx: +1 would love to spend time with everyone. | 20:58 |
| sdague | yeh +1 | 20:58 |
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| cdent | very +1 on that. some face time to spitball | 20:58 |
| ttx | alright, let's do it | 20:58 |
| dims | blocked my calendar | 20:58 |
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| EmilienM | as long as it's not too expensive, +1 | 20:58 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 20:58 |
| fungi | i'm fine with it so long as cdent promises not to spit on me at least ;) | 20:58 |
| * smcginnis notes to not sit across from cdent's spitballs | 20:58 | |
| cdent | you people are no fun at all! | 20:59 |
| ttx | We likely won't have a sponsor, so it will be split tab | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : the new folks have to pay, do don't worry about it ;-) | 20:59 |
| smcginnis | Hah! | 20:59 |
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| EmilienM | reminder: some of our folks have to pay for their own expenses | 20:59 |
| dims | ++ dhellmann | 20:59 |
| cdent | I wanted to mention that the compatibility guidelline that is blocked on the interop guideline in the api-wg will unblock on thursday when interop merges | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | yeah, low key is fine | 20:59 |
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| ttx | yeah, we usually have good samaritans to pick up the bill for them in those cases | 20:59 |
| dtroyer | cdent: \o/ | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok, time is up | 21:00 |
| fungi | thanks ttx! | 21:00 |
| smcginnis | Thanks | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | see you all next week | 21:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone and see you next week | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 2 21:00:26 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-05-02-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-05-02-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-05-02-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
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