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| yamamoto | hi | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| mlavalle | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Mar 16 14:00:14 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mlavalle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 14:00 |
| ihrachys | o/ | 14:00 |
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| mlavalle | hi yamamoto, ihrachys | 14:00 |
| mlavalle | Nice to see you! | 14:00 |
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| mlavalle | Let's get going.... | 14:01 |
| mlavalle | RFEs for today are here: | 14:01 |
| mlavalle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=rfe-triaged | 14:02 |
| mlavalle | First one for today is https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1748132 | 14:02 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1748132 in neutron "[RFE] Can not create router gateway without external_fixed_ips" [Low,In progress] - Assigned to Guoshuai Li (liguoshuai1990) | 14:02 |
| mlavalle | We had proposed to the submitter use of subnet service types to acomplish the same thing | 14:03 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:03 |
| mlavalle | amotoki: o/ | 14:04 |
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| mlavalle | Now he clarified that he is using networking-ovn | 14:04 |
| mlavalle | haleyb: you around? | 14:05 |
| haleyb | yes, i'm here, i was reading the bug again | 14:05 |
| haleyb | i don't exactly understand his Question #1 | 14:06 |
| haleyb | in comment 13 | 14:06 |
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| haleyb | is it just a static route on the upstream router? | 14:07 |
| mlavalle | I think it is | 14:07 |
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| mlavalle | but he seems to have found a solution for 1 | 14:07 |
| mlavalle | Problem is 2 | 14:07 |
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| amotoki | re #1, in normal linux router case, a next hop does not response and ns router will return icmp unreachable | 14:08 |
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| haleyb | so with problem 2 it's using default snat if no floating | 14:09 |
| mlavalle | right | 14:09 |
| mlavalle | and if no fip, he doesn't want traffic to go out | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | 2 could be approached as a bug, no? just block it. is there a use case where we would want to leak? | 14:10 |
| amotoki | but how can we detect we cannot do SNAT for a case of 2. | 14:11 |
| amotoki | ? | 14:11 |
| mlavalle | If we come up with a 'signalling' mechanism, we might as well revert to his original proposal | 14:13 |
| amotoki | yeah, I think so. | 14:14 |
| mlavalle | in other words, Router Gateway Port without IP | 14:14 |
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| amotoki | another option is a combination of subnet with private IP and no snat attribute. it might save tables resource for SNAT, but it will fall into 1. | 14:16 |
| amotoki | perhaps gateway port without IP is easier to understand compared to no SNAT option in this case | 14:16 |
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| mlavalle | you mean his original proposal? | 14:17 |
| amotoki | mlavalle: yes | 14:18 |
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| mlavalle | Yes, seems the cleaner alternative | 14:18 |
| haleyb | mlavalle: there is the enable_snat flag in the external_gateway_info object, i haven't played with it in a while | 14:18 |
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| mlavalle | We can play with it over the next few days | 14:19 |
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| amotoki | i mean enable_snat flag by "SNAT" option | 14:20 |
| mlavalle | propose him to play with it | 14:20 |
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| haleyb | https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/api/configurable_external_gateway_modes.html does say enable_snat is there to change the behavior, and floating ips will work regardless | 14:21 |
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| yamamoto | he want to make the router not to forward traffic from ip without fip, right? | 14:22 |
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| yamamoto | with or without snat | 14:22 |
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| amotoki | yamamoto: yes. he says "VM access to public network through floating IP only." | 14:22 |
| mlavalle | and he wants to save the a public ip address | 14:23 |
| mlavalle | in the router gateway port | 14:23 |
| amotoki | as operator perspective, service subnet will prevent from wasting public IP addresses. from user perspective, no gateway IP is easier to understand. | 14:24 |
| yamamoto | with subnet service types, we can save a public ip but can't stop forwarding | 14:24 |
| amotoki | i think at least he need to use service type for subnet to save IP addresses. | 14:24 |
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| mlavalle | right, we can't stop forwarding | 14:25 |
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| amotoki | his proposal of no gateway IP is just an user option. it seems better to ask him whether he would like to save public IP addrs as system level. | 14:26 |
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| mlavalle | he already says that in the original rfe: "in order to save public IP network" | 14:27 |
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| amotoki | yes, perhaps we would like to save IPs as operators | 14:28 |
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| mlavalle | haleyb: do you propose a combination of subnet service type with enable_snat? | 14:29 |
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| haleyb | mlavalle: i think that case could work. but i'm also thinking about amotoki's comment that no gateway IP is easy to understand | 14:30 |
| mlavalle | yeah, his original proposal | 14:30 |
| haleyb | i hadn't assumed someone would want to disable snat entirely | 14:30 |
| mlavalle | I was fine with it originally. seemed reasonable with me | 14:31 |
| yamamoto | with enable_snat=false the router would forward those packets without snat. i don't think it's what he wants. | 14:31 |
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| mlavalle | go back to his original proposal? | 14:32 |
| haleyb | yamamoto: they might actually be dropped based on scoping, or dropped in the upstream router, but maybe not in his config | 14:32 |
| yamamoto | haleyb: avoiding snat is somehow common for distributed implementations like midonet, where distributing snat state can be expensive. | 14:33 |
| haleyb | mlavalle: so maybe the original proposal wins? | 14:34 |
| mlavalle | that's my opinion | 14:34 |
| mlavalle | what do others think? | 14:35 |
| amotoki | I think one minus point of the original proposal is operators cannot enforce no IP for a gateway port. | 14:35 |
| amotoki | this is the point I am not clear. | 14:36 |
| yamamoto | i'm leaning to the original proposal. or make enable_snat 3 mode (add "drop" mode) | 14:36 |
| yamamoto | amotoki: you mean cloud admin vs tenant admin? | 14:37 |
| amotoki | yamamoto: tenant vs admin | 14:37 |
| yamamoto | admin wants to save public ips but tenant might not follow the policy? | 14:38 |
| amotoki | yamamoto: that's a possible case as having IP for a gateway port is our default | 14:38 |
| yamamoto | maybe it can be solved separately with policy.json or something like that? | 14:39 |
| amotoki | good point | 14:41 |
| mlavalle | That would be beyond the scope of this RFE, right? | 14:42 |
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| mlavalle | go back to original proposal? | 14:44 |
| amotoki | it is a difficult point. at now, the policy framework cannot enforce user to always specify some field, so it means it is not easy to enforce it to users.. | 14:44 |
| yamamoto | or some kind of quota to motivate tenants to save public ips | 14:45 |
| amotoki | honestly this RFE focuses on no IP of a gateway port | 14:46 |
| amotoki | and more demand should be a separate topic | 14:47 |
| mlavalle | yeap | 14:47 |
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| mlavalle | My opinion is still towards the original proposal | 14:48 |
| yamamoto | +1 | 14:48 |
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| amotoki | +1. how about posting questions/feedbacks based on today's discussion if any? | 14:48 |
| mlavalle | yes, I would do that | 14:49 |
| mlavalle | ihrachys, haleyb: what do you think? | 14:49 |
| amotoki | i will post a point i raised above (tenant vs admin) | 14:49 |
| haleyb | +1 | 14:49 |
| mlavalle | amotoki: agree | 14:49 |
| mlavalle | cool | 14:50 |
| ihrachys | I don't have a useful thought :) | 14:50 |
| mlavalle | ihrachys: that's fine :-) | 14:51 |
| mlavalle | fwiw, I didn't expect this lengthy discussion last night when I was preparing for this meeting.... LOL | 14:52 |
| amotoki | hehe | 14:52 |
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| mlavalle | Good discussion, though. Thanks! | 14:52 |
| mlavalle | Moving on, next one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1690425 | 14:53 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1690425 in neutron "[RFE] neutron cells aware" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 14:53 |
| mlavalle | For this one we want someone to work on a PoC | 14:54 |
| mlavalle | What I think I will do is I will create a blueprint for it in Launchpad | 14:54 |
| mlavalle | so we can discuss / advertise it in the weekly meeting during the blueprints section | 14:55 |
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| mlavalle | makes sense? | 14:55 |
| mlavalle | In the interest of time, I will take that as a yes ;-) | 14:56 |
| mlavalle | Following one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1690425 | 14:56 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1690425 in neutron "[RFE] neutron cells aware" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 14:56 |
| amotoki | possible. | 14:56 |
| amotoki | same bug? | 14:57 |
| mlavalle | sorry | 14:57 |
| mlavalle | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1715386 | 14:57 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1715386 in neutron "[RFE]Support routing traffic based on subnet" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to zhaobo (zhaobo6) | 14:57 |
| mlavalle | For this one, I think we need to go back to the spec and give it a review | 14:58 |
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| amotoki | same understanding | 14:59 |
| mlavalle | and given that we are short of time, next week we can start with https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1723026 | 14:59 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1723026 in neutron "[RFE]Support get device_ids from floatingips" [Wishlist,Confirmed] - Assigned to Hongbin Lu (hongbin.lu) | 14:59 |
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| amotoki | Regarding bug 1743480, I still didn't get the point in the RFE. I commented in #19. hopefully you can check it. | 15:00 |
| openstack | bug 1743480 in neutron "[RFE] No way to differentiate beween floating IP networks and external provider networks" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1743480 | 15:00 |
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| mlavalle | sounds good amotoki. thanks | 15:01 |
| mlavalle | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Mar 16 15:01:24 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2018/neutron_drivers.2018-03-16-14.00.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2018/neutron_drivers.2018-03-16-14.00.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2018/neutron_drivers.2018-03-16-14.00.log.html | 15:01 |
| yamamoto | bye | 15:01 |
| smcginnis | #startmeeting releaseteam | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Mar 16 15:01:33 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| mlavalle | Thanks for attending | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam' | 15:01 |
| smcginnis | ping dhellmann, dims, fungi, tonyb, lbragstad, ttx, armstrong | 15:01 |
| knikolla | o/ | 15:01 |
| ttx | o/ | 15:02 |
| mlavalle | sorry for the delay smcginnis :-( | 15:02 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 15:02 |
| annabelleB | o/ | 15:02 |
| smcginnis | mlavalle: No problem! | 15:02 |
| smcginnis | Agenda can be found at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/rocky-relmgt-tracking | 15:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:02 |
| lbragstad | just fyi - knikolla is taking over the release liaison role for keystone | 15:02 |
| smcginnis | Currently line 38 | 15:02 |
| smcginnis | lbragstad: ack | 15:02 |
| smcginnis | Welcome knikolla | 15:02 |
| lbragstad | so - expect to see him more frequently in the release meetings :) | 15:02 |
| smcginnis | Excellent | 15:03 |
| knikolla | smcginnis: thanks o/ :) | 15:03 |
| smcginnis | #topic Cycle trailing status | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cycle trailing status (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 15:03 | |
| smcginnis | Long live queens I guess. :) | 15:03 |
| ttx | indeed | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-March/128215.html | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | Normally we would be done, but now we have some time for those projects to wrap things up. | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | ttx: Anything you want to say about this? | 15:04 |
| ttx | not really | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | Did we get updates to PROCESS to reflect these changes? | 15:05 |
| ttx | just wanted to review the tasks above to see what's still needed | 15:05 |
| smcginnis | The tasks in the etherpad? Or the end of cycle ones in the process doc? | 15:05 |
| fungi | is there some idea as to when the stragglers might release? | 15:06 |
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| fungi | wondering if it makes sense for me to delay merging the signing key rotation a few days or something | 15:06 |
| smcginnis | The ML post says up to 3 months after the coordinated release, so I don't think we should wait. | 15:07 |
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| smcginnis | Which does mean some Queens targeted things will be signed with the rocky key, but I think we end up like that anyway with stable releases, right? | 15:07 |
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| fungi | yeah, it's not a big deal (as discussed at last week's meeting) | 15:08 |
| fungi | if we thought it was going to be sometime in the coming week then i would push off my monday plan | 15:09 |
| fungi | but i'll just stick to the schedule | 15:09 |
| smcginnis | It's possible there may be some, but no one that I'm aware of at the moment. | 15:09 |
| smcginnis | So probably better not to hold things up for it. | 15:09 |
| fungi | no sweat | 15:09 |
| smcginnis | fungi: Thanks for checking. | 15:09 |
| ttx | yes tasks on the etherpad | 15:10 |
| smcginnis | Which also reminds me, infra had planned on some gerrit downtime after cycle-trailing release was complete. | 15:10 |
| smcginnis | But that can probably still happen. It was/is planned for tomorrow. | 15:10 |
| smcginnis | fungi: I forget the details. Do you know the nature of the dowtime? | 15:10 |
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| fungi | i think we decided to push it out a week due to one of the interested parties just coming back from vacation today | 15:11 |
| fungi | it was just going to be a project rename | 15:11 |
| fungi | well, a couple of project renames | 15:11 |
| smcginnis | Ah, OK. I'll note that in our etherpad just to make sure we're all aware. | 15:11 |
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| smcginnis | Shouldn't make a difference over the weekend, but just in case. | 15:11 |
| smcginnis | fungi: So current plan is one week from tomorrow? | 15:12 |
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| fungi | we were originally also going to roll in the nova-specs repository repair but then ended up having to step up the timeline and perform that in an emergency maintenance last week instead | 15:12 |
| fungi | er, lemme double-check the meeting details | 15:12 |
| smcginnis | No worries, we can follow up on that later. | 15:12 |
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| smcginnis | Anyone have anything else to discuss about cycle-trailing projects? | 15:13 |
| fungi | sure, i'll let you know at the end of the meeting | 15:13 |
| smcginnis | #topic Contribution ladder | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Contribution ladder (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 15:13 | |
| smcginnis | ttx: Did you want to take this? | 15:13 |
| ttx | yes | 15:13 |
| ttx | so I want to make sure we caputure the newcomers that came to us in Dublin | 15:14 |
| ttx | capture | 15:14 |
| ttx | annabelleB and armstrong | 15:14 |
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| annabelleB | newcomer reporting for duty! | 15:14 |
| ttx | by giving them a way to get started | 15:14 |
| smcginnis | #link https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1B9u2VpLeuzj-1T1VJrpgaE7_uM9T7cRlEXLFf56ggKE/edit | 15:14 |
| ttx | I feel like we need to describe levels of engagement | 15:15 |
| smcginnis | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/relmgmt-onboarding | 15:15 |
| ttx | First level being | 15:15 |
| ttx | a basic understanding of the process and infra machinery behind it | 15:15 |
| ttx | being able to review 90% of the release requests and take a review day | 15:15 |
| ttx | (including creating issues for job failures, not necessarily debug then) | 15:16 |
| ttx | them) | 15:16 |
| ttx | are we on the same page on what that first level would look like ? | 15:16 |
| smcginnis | I like that description. | 15:16 |
| ttx | or more ? or less ? | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | that seems like a lot | 15:17 |
| fungi | also, nice diagram | 15:17 |
| ttx | basically it's about approving stuff that you feel comfortable approving | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | maybe step 1 is just reviewing the release requests themselvs? | 15:17 |
| ttx | and having a peek behind the scenes | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | and step 2 is understanding more of what happens after approval | 15:17 |
| ttx | dhellmann: you mean, in case of failure, just call Doug? | 15:18 |
| ttx | I mean $Doug | 15:18 |
| smcginnis | ttx: Is the idea that would be a spectrum where after all of step 1 is covered and understood, that would then be the point at which they would be added as core? | 15:18 |
| * dhellmann remembers to change his phone number again for this cycle | 15:18 | |
| fungi | doug-for-a-day | 15:18 |
| smcginnis | :) | 15:18 |
| smcginnis | WWDD - What would Doug do? | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | I like this diagram a lot, btw | 15:19 |
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| ttx | smcginnis: I would add them as Core at stage 1, with understandig that they should only approve stuff they are comfortable approving | 15:19 |
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| ttx | I want then to be useful from day 0 | 15:19 |
| dhellmann | what is step 2? | 15:19 |
| smcginnis | But not at the start of stage 1 right? Or we need a stage 0 for new folks to get to that point? | 15:19 |
| dhellmann | or stage 2, I guess | 15:19 |
| ttx | good question, I described it earlier, let me fetch that | 15:20 |
| * dhellmann opens the etherpad | 15:20 | |
| smcginnis | I started jotting down details in that etherpad. | 15:21 |
| smcginnis | It definitely needs more work. | 15:21 |
| ttx | stage 2 is knowing the cycle process by heart | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | it sounds like stage 1 includes things like understanding the various rules for the different release models? | 15:21 |
| ttx | stage 3 is knowing the whole infrastructure behind it | 15:21 |
| smcginnis | But wanted to start capturing things to work towards some more official documentation. | 15:21 |
| ttx | (also known as the Doug level | 15:21 |
| ttx | ) | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | heh | 15:22 |
| ttx | etherpad? | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/relmgmt-onboarding | 15:22 |
| * ttx creates etherpads for breakfast | 15:22 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: so regarding your stage 0.9 question above | 15:23 |
| ttx | like not requiring basic understanding of the process / infra behind it | 15:23 |
| ttx | I would say we can have a stage before my stage 1 where people just do non-core reviews | 15:23 |
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| ttx | But I feel like to be trusted to do release core reviews you need that basic understanding of what happens when you press W+1 | 15:24 |
| smcginnis | I do think someone needs to have some understanding and experience before we give them the stage 1 details and core rights. | 15:24 |
| ttx | So stage 0.9 is actually a stage 0 | 15:24 |
| dhellmann | ok, I can see that as fair | 15:24 |
| ttx | since anyone can do it | 15:24 |
| ttx | So Stage 0 - release +1 reviews | 15:25 |
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| ttx | Stage 1 - minimal necessary to be trusted with W+1 | 15:25 |
| ttx | We could/should document the review rules though, even for stage 0 | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | I guess the stage definitions are "you must be able to do..." descriptions, rather than "you will do..." | 15:26 |
| smcginnis | OK, I think we have the same thought, just conveying it a little differently. | 15:26 |
| ttx | since I feel like people are not participating in release reviews ebcause they have no idea what we look for | 15:26 |
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| smcginnis | ++ | 15:26 |
| smcginnis | Regardless, we need better documentation of what is involved. | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I've tried to put as many of the rules into the code as I could, but the ones that are left are pretty subtle so docs would help | 15:26 |
| ttx | heck, sometimes I wonder how to describe my process | 15:27 |
| smcginnis | It might help us too, since we probably each approach the reviews slightly differently. | 15:27 |
| ttx | It's almost supernatural sense of the yaml feeling right | 15:27 |
| ttx | a combination of trusting the submitter to actually know semver | 15:27 |
| ttx | and diving and check | 15:27 |
| smcginnis | I think the validation testing has gotten good enough that the semi-subjective part of doing reviews is a lot more nuanced. | 15:28 |
| fungi | i appreciate the level of detail there. i'm confident i could do those things today if i had the bandwidth for them | 15:28 |
| ttx | which means that .Y bumps on current release series are mostly a no-brainer, just check PTL/liaison approval | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | at this point a lot of the time it comes down to "you can't do this at this point in the cycle" | 15:28 |
| smcginnis | Time in cycle, stable status, and semver adherance are probably the big gotchas. | 15:29 |
| ttx | right, so we should document this | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 15:29 |
| ttx | Maybe make that part of stage 0 | 15:29 |
| ttx | "what to look for in a release review" | 15:29 |
| smcginnis | There's probably a lot I put under stage 1 in the etherpad that can/should move to a stage 0. | 15:30 |
| ttx | yes | 15:30 |
| ttx | A lot of stage 1 is knowing when not to approve (like when there is some doubt) and leaving it to someone else | 15:30 |
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| ttx | frankly if we have people in stage 1 taking care of 90% of the requests, we'd be in a good place | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | true | 15:31 |
| smcginnis | I've been looking at these as transitional stages where you start at stage 1 without it and as you absorb the details I currently have in stage 1, you "complete" that level and move on to stage 2. Just a different way of looking at it. | 15:31 |
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| dhellmann | smcginnis : yeah, we should agree on whether we're using pre-versioning or post-versioning for stages ;-) | 15:32 |
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| dhellmann | after that it should be clear where to put each part of the description | 15:32 |
| smcginnis | But it may be better to have the stage 0 and have these details a declarative statement of what should be known to be at that stage. | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | this feels like another thing (like the process) that it would be good for us to *publish* as documentation, but we don't really have a place to do that. | 15:33 |
| smcginnis | Should we have a doc section that gets published like other repos? | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | how do you feel about extending some of the releases.o.o reference section with this stuff? | 15:33 |
| smcginnis | Although, "publishing" as rst files when viewing the repo works well too. | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | or yeah, maybe publish to docs.o.o/releases or something? | 15:33 |
| smcginnis | I was thinking the latter. | 15:34 |
| dhellmann | that makes sense | 15:34 |
| smcginnis | Just conceptually I think of releases.o.o as a reference point for what has been released, not how to get it released. But that could be changed too. | 15:34 |
| dhellmann | we've hesitated to add too much how-to material there for just that reason | 15:34 |
| ttx | should we create a CONTRIBUTION_LADDER.rst file ? | 15:35 |
| smcginnis | I think that would be a good next step after we churn through this etherpad. | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | sure | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | and we can figure out publishing separately | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | maybe docs.o.o/releases/contrib like the other teams | 15:35 |
| smcginnis | I figured it would take a lot of reworking and back and forth that would be easier done in an etherpad before publishing in a more static form. | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 15:35 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: I like that idea. | 15:35 |
| ttx | OK, I raised it as a topic for the meeting because I don't want our padawans to get bored to death waiting for us to get our act together | 15:35 |
| smcginnis | :) | 15:36 |
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| dhellmann | would it be useful to set up a buddy system for training? | 15:36 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, probably don't need to spend too much time in the meeting on this, but good start. We can keep working through this. | 15:36 |
| dhellmann | or are folks comfortable just asking questions in channel and getting an answer from whoever is around? | 15:36 |
| smcginnis | Pair releasing, like pair programming? | 15:36 |
| fungi | probably fine to stick it in the usual CONTRIBUTING.rst and then use a sphinx include directive to stitch that into the docs tree | 15:36 |
| annabelleB | :: would like a buddy :: | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | annabelleB : sign me up | 15:37 |
| fungi | since github (and presumably other systems) consider CONTRIBUTING.rst as a standard place to find that sort of info | 15:37 |
| smcginnis | I can always be a backup too. | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | fungi : good point | 15:37 |
| smcginnis | Depending on the length, not sure if we want to include it in, or link to it. But we can see where things end up and what looks best. | 15:37 |
| * smcginnis looks at our CONTRIBUTING and realizes it's pretty bare | 15:38 | |
| smcginnis | Yeah, that may be a good place actually. | 15:38 |
| ttx | one of the trickiest things to determine when reviewing release requests is whether it's a good time to release wrt. infra status | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | we can at least start there | 15:38 |
| ttx | so i still want to work on some grafana dashboard that would answer that question near-objectively | 15:39 |
| ttx | If graphs look too wrong, probably not a great time | 15:39 |
| smcginnis | That could be very useful. | 15:40 |
| ttx | One of the things that is hard to extract from our metrics is time to merge | 15:40 |
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| dhellmann | there's a way to ask zuul about recent job failures, but if no release jobs have been run in a while the data may not be good | 15:40 |
| ttx | Like look at top of gate and see how much time since it was enqueued amd how much time left to run | 15:40 |
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| ttx | add those two | 15:40 |
| dhellmann | #link http://zuul.openstack.org/builds.html?pipeline=release | 15:40 |
| ttx | which is why I fear that Grafana.o.o won't cut it | 15:41 |
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| ttx | the data is a bit hard to compile | 15:41 |
| dhellmann | that report shows "duration" but I suspect that's only how long the job actually took to run, and doesn't account for any waiting period | 15:42 |
| smcginnis | That duration shows how long it took the test to run, but not how long it had to wait before it started running. | 15:42 |
| smcginnis | jinx | 15:42 |
| ttx | It's still good input. Rate of recent fails on release jobs is prety useful | 15:42 |
| ttx | Ideally we'd condense all those inputs into a single traffic light style indicator | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | I wonder if that zuul data is available via an api | 15:43 |
| ttx | and a number of dashboards to explain the area having problems | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | this is drifting pretty far from an onboarding ladder, though | 15:43 |
| fungi | the data is stored in a relational database, but i don't think there's (yet) an api exposed to query that beyond what the dashboard presents | 15:44 |
| ttx | right... but I feel like it would be extremely useful for stage 1 people | 15:44 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, we can probably move on for now and come back to this as we work through those details. | 15:44 |
| fungi | though basic success/failure for specific pipeline+job combinations should also be queryable from graphite | 15:44 |
| smcginnis | ttx: Want to add an action to our planning etherpad so it's not lost? | 15:44 |
| ttx | on it | 15:45 |
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| smcginnis | OK, I'll move on then. | 15:45 |
| smcginnis | #topic Sending periodic "unreleased" reports | 15:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Sending periodic "unreleased" reports (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 15:45 | |
| smcginnis | I do have some cinder related reports that I run periodically and publish to a web site. | 15:46 |
| smcginnis | I've actually been meaning to add this as one of the things that gets run. | 15:46 |
| smcginnis | It would make it easier for us to easily check on that. | 15:46 |
| smcginnis | But good question as to whether we should send that data out. | 15:46 |
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| fungi | what kind of reports? | 15:47 |
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| dhellmann | I was thinking a periodic job that sent the output of list_unreleased_changes.sh for each team | 15:47 |
| dhellmann | though only sending if there was actually something to send | 15:47 |
| dhellmann | and a very long period, like a month | 15:47 |
| dhellmann | so we'd have an email with a subject like "[cinder](pike) unreleased changes" and it would include all of the pike deliverables for that team | 15:48 |
| smcginnis | I kind of like that idea. | 15:48 |
| ttx | who would we send that to ? | 15:48 |
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| dhellmann | openstack-dev | 15:48 |
| dhellmann | this came up because someone asked for a neutron pike release this week and when I looked there were dozens of patches | 15:49 |
| ttx | that would be... pretty noisy | 15:49 |
| dhellmann | well, if the email is only 1 per month and only if there are unreleased patches, it shouldn't be that many for teams on top of their releases | 15:49 |
| dhellmann | and if they aren't doing backports it wouldn't generate anything | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | and we would leave out master, of course | 15:50 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, I think once a month, and only if significant patches found, wouldn't be too noisy. | 15:50 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I fear the mailman day effect. So maybe that should send emails one month after last release | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | ah, hmm | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that's an interesting idea | 15:50 |
| ttx | i.e the job would run daily but consider the date of last release | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | we could run the job daily, but if it hasn't been 30 days since the last release we don't announce anything either? | 15:51 |
| ttx | that way you don't train people to ignore email every 1st of the month | 15:51 |
| fungi | that seems less likely to fall through the cracks at least | 15:51 |
| ttx | right | 15:51 |
| dhellmann | ok, sure, that makes sense | 15:51 |
| smcginnis | So if last_release > one_month and len(merged_patches) > signficant_amount: send email? | 15:51 |
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| dhellmann | I'll make some notes in the planning doc. I'm not sure I'm going to get to it this cycle myself, but I could advise someone else who wanted to work on it. | 15:51 |
| ttx | smcginnis: well, you would not want to send one every day after the 30th day either | 15:51 |
| fungi | or do you do it on a modulus of ~30 days since the last release? | 15:52 |
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| smcginnis | ttx: True | 15:52 |
| ttx | fungi: what fungi said | 15:52 |
| ttx | you send on every last release monthversary | 15:52 |
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| dhellmann | maybe significant_amount == 5? | 15:52 |
| dhellmann | or higher? | 15:52 |
| smcginnis | Bikeshed mode - engaged. | 15:52 |
| dhellmann | hah | 15:53 |
| ttx | 5 sounds fine to me if no release for a month | 15:53 |
| persia | Maybe only send the monthversary notices when the number of patches has changed since the last notice | 15:53 |
| ttx | and blue | 15:53 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'll add a note | 15:53 |
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| ttx | stateful! | 15:53 |
| persia | ttx: No, just check if a change landed in the last 30 days. | 15:53 |
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| smcginnis | It hasn't been uncommon to see 5 commits all for zuul job changes. | 15:53 |
| persia | commit_date of master HEAD should be enough. | 15:53 |
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| ttx | ok, ok... if one no longer can troll | 15:54 |
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| ttx | ok 5 minutes left | 15:54 |
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| smcginnis | Probably should add this to the planning etherpad too? | 15:55 |
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| smcginnis | But one more topic, so I'll move on. | 15:55 |
| dhellmann | line 177 | 15:55 |
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| smcginnis | #topic Stopping requirements sync | 15:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stopping requirements sync (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 15:55 | |
| smcginnis | #link | 15:56 |
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| smcginnis | Oops | 15:56 |
| smcginnis | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-March/128352.html | 15:56 |
| dhellmann | this was a late addition, I just wanted to make sure folks saw the email and provided feedback | 15:56 |
| smcginnis | I need to reread it to understand the issue with how we do things now. | 15:56 |
| smcginnis | But responses so far seem favorable. | 15:56 |
| dhellmann | I'm happy to talk through it if folks have detailed questions about the background | 15:56 |
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| smcginnis | Is there a one or two sentence summary of what problems we have now that this is avoiding? | 15:57 |
| dhellmann | we end up releasing oslo libraries just because of requirements bumps | 15:57 |
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| fungi | projects (i could name examples) would like to be able to more accurately reflect their individual backwards compatibility with their own dependencies | 15:58 |
| ttx | yes yjay is silly | 15:58 |
| ttx | smcginnis: i think it removes unneeded complexity | 15:58 |
| dhellmann | also some of the teams that want their tools to be usable on their own don't always want to use the latest version of a dependency that some other project needs | 15:58 |
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| smcginnis | But still enforces compatiblity for coinstallability? | 15:58 |
| fungi | right | 15:58 |
| dhellmann | yes, the upper-constraints.txt list provides that | 15:58 |
| smcginnis | OK, sounds good to me then. | 15:59 |
| dhellmann | my proposed change is a simplified version of what I remember the original plan being, where I don't ask teams to run integration tests using the lower bounds | 15:59 |
| dhellmann | it doesn't prevent that, but as I have no real interest in it I'm leaving that to others | 15:59 |
| dhellmann | it seems appropriate to try to have this done by the time we get to vancouver, since the plan was drawn up the last time we were there | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | Anyone have last minute comments? | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | the original plan, that is, not my proposal | 16:00 |
| fungi | other benefits are 1. less back-and-forth between reqs repo changes and per-project changes when they want to adjust a minimum, and 2. no more reqs sync changes | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | Out of time. | 16:00 |
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| fungi | reviewing the infra meeting log ( http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2018/infra.2018-03-13-19.01.log.html#l-60 ) and conferring with clarkb, the original plan was to do project rename maintenance later today but the revised plan is to reevaluate on tuesday and come up with a new scheduled date/time (so might be a week from today, might be longer) | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | ack, use the ML thread for questions please | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | fungi: Ack, thanks. | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | Thanks everyone. | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Mar 16 16:01:18 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2018/releaseteam.2018-03-16-15.01.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2018/releaseteam.2018-03-16-15.01.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2018/releaseteam.2018-03-16-15.01.log.html | 16:01 |
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