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| oneswig | #stortmeeting scientific-sig | 10:59 |
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| oneswig | #startmeeting scientific-sig | 11:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Sep 12 11:00:08 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 11:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 11:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 11:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_sig' | 11:00 |
| oneswig | I will spell it correctly one day! | 11:00 |
| oneswig | #link Agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_SIG#IRC_Meeting_September_12th_2018 | 11:00 |
| janders | :) | 11:00 |
| oneswig | What-ho | 11:00 |
| oneswig | evening janders, how's stuff going? | 11:00 |
| priteau | Good morning / afternoon! | 11:01 |
| janders | good :) I'm just back from a short break, doing exciting things like.. rebuilding my laptop with FC28 :) | 11:01 |
| oneswig | priteau: crikey, you're up early :-) | 11:01 |
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| oneswig | janders: is that with os-tree? | 11:01 |
| priteau | I suppose jet lag will be over once it's time to fly back home | 11:02 |
| verdurin | Afternoon. | 11:02 |
| oneswig | Hi verdurin, greetings | 11:02 |
| janders | oneswig: I will disappoint you - just a plain USB install :) I needed to start fresh. It seems to be working well though. | 11:02 |
| janders | on more interesting things front, I think I solved a simple problem with SRIOV VMs and baremetals coexisting within one AZ | 11:03 |
| oneswig | janders: I'd be interested to know the point of ostree, it only seems to annoy when I've tried to use it. | 11:03 |
| janders | last time I played with SRIOV was Mitaka - and there scheduler filters are explicitly set | 11:03 |
| oneswig | janders: is this your running-virt-in-baremetal setup? | 11:03 |
| janders | with Queens, there's some intermediate variable which confused things a little | 11:04 |
| janders | correct | 11:04 |
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| oneswig | janders: you're talking TripleO config or something directly in Nova ? | 11:05 |
| janders | I have to try Mark's suggestion regarding adding vxlan support, too - that would give me baremetal, SRIOV or virtualised ethernet on one cloud depending on the requirements | 11:05 |
| janders | it's not a tripleo scenario - my KVM nodes are baremetal instances like any other ironic-to-tenant instance | 11:05 |
| janders | it just so happens they are created on the internalapi network which is again a standard neutron network | 11:06 |
| janders | I will port all this to tripleo some time soon, but for now it's all custom to figure out the exact architecture | 11:06 |
| janders | speaking of.. looks like a great discussion at the PTG - answered some of my questions | 11:07 |
| oneswig | let's cover that... | 11:07 |
| oneswig | #topic PTG wash-up | 11:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG wash-up (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 11:07 | |
| oneswig | priteau: were you in the Scientific SIG session? | 11:07 |
| priteau | I wasn't unfortunately, it was conflicting with Blazar | 11:07 |
| oneswig | Ah, ok. | 11:08 |
| oneswig | #link PTG session etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-sig-denverptg2018 | 11:08 |
| oneswig | I heard from Martial and other people it was a useful session | 11:08 |
| priteau | I talked with Martial afterwards, apparently the focus was mostly on bare-metal (points 2, 3, and 4 in the Etherpad) | 11:08 |
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| janders | oneswig: I have one question regarding Mark's comment - maybe you will know the answer | 11:09 |
| oneswig | priteau: it's all about who contributed to the agenda - don't ask, don't get :-) | 11:09 |
| oneswig | janders: unlikely but I can try! | 11:09 |
| janders | Mark mentioned that you guys already use a neutron router to uplink the provisioning_network to the API network | 11:09 |
| janders | while I was doing research on this I was told that ironic-conductor might need to connect directly back to the IPA | 11:10 |
| oneswig | aha. Did he explicitly say *neutron* router? | 11:10 |
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| janders | oneswig: haha, you got me there! :) | 11:10 |
| oneswig | We've done a mix. There are some tricky pieces with multi-tenant networking that generally break assumptions | 11:11 |
| janders | he did not and that might mean there's no NAT and that answers my question - thanks! :) | 11:11 |
| oneswig | Even if the router was Neutron (can't recall how it was done on the last deploy), I think we'd set it up without NAT. | 11:12 |
| oneswig | I might be able to check | 11:12 |
| oneswig | Yes, we apparently have Neutron routers for inspection, cleaning and provisioning networks. | 11:13 |
| janders | neutron routers with NAT disabled, right? | 11:13 |
| oneswig | yes, it would be | 11:14 |
| janders | does your configuration use something called address scope? | 11:14 |
| oneswig | Not seeing a reference to that on the router | 11:14 |
| janders | (googling around as we speak - I haven't used neutron routers without NAT before) | 11:14 |
| janders | http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/disable-nat-ipv4-openstack/ | 11:15 |
| janders | thinking about it, maybe it would even work with a standard NAT-enabled router provided that the ironic-conductor node has the route set for the provisioning_network (and that route is the external IP of the neutron router) | 11:17 |
| priteau | There's also this option for `openstack router set`: --disable-snat Disable Source NAT on external gateway | 11:17 |
| janders | priteau: thank you. Without testing, my guess is it might work without any of the complexity covered in the link I posted above | 11:18 |
| janders | oneswig: I will touch on this in my reply to Mark | 11:19 |
| janders | thanks guys! | 11:19 |
| oneswig | We are hoping to extend routing Ironic traffic further to enable (eg) multi-tenant support for boot-from-volume | 11:19 |
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| oneswig | janders: do keep in touch with Mark on this I'm sure he'd be interested to hear how you are doing. | 11:20 |
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| janders | oneswig: will definitely do | 11:20 |
| oneswig | Judging by the discussion on trusted boot, there's quite a way to go on this. Plenty of comments along the lines of "Ironic could in theory..." | 11:22 |
| janders | oneswig: I saw a mention of the boot-from-volume challenges in the PTG/SIG. Is it the initial step - pxeboot - where the problems start in a multi-tenant context? | 11:22 |
| oneswig | Is that boot from Ceph RBD volume, specifically? | 11:22 |
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| janders | I was looking at 4.1.2 (I think Julia made this note) - it looks fairly generic (not limited to RBD) | 11:23 |
| oneswig | There's working support for boot from iSCSI but I am not sure if it supports multi-tenant network isolation. | 11:23 |
| oneswig | aha, exactly that janders | 11:24 |
| oneswig | So I think Ironic's comfortable with PXE-booting on the provisioning network but expects instances to boot without pxe assistance on the tenant networks. | 11:24 |
| janders | here's a quick and dirty idea - how about we write ipxe image over the provisioning network and when the baremetal instance gets moved to the tenant network post-provisioning, it's "intercepted" by another PXE server? | 11:25 |
| janders | I've done something along those lines for a completely different application, but it did give me full multi-tenant pxe capability | 11:25 |
| oneswig | There is support for separate kernel and ramdisk images for nodes that cannot configure boot-to-disk (eg, nodes without IPMI). | 11:25 |
| oneswig | I wonder if that works with multi-tenant networking. | 11:26 |
| oneswig | I believe that would require PXE on the tenant networks, which as you say is what is wanted | 11:26 |
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| priteau | oneswig: We had the same problem on Chameleon with ARM64 nodes which were booting so-called partition images, which boot kernel and ramdisk from the network | 11:27 |
| oneswig | It doesn't seem so far off, that's for sure. Mark was in the discussion and mentioned that there'd be a lot of data funneled through this poor neutron router if the nodes were booting through it. | 11:27 |
| priteau | To use tenant networks they needed to be changed to boot from disk | 11:28 |
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| oneswig | priteau: sounds like the same issue. | 11:28 |
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| janders | pxebooting in a VLAN is always a lot of "fun" | 11:29 |
| oneswig | I think my happy solution would be a means of configuring these routers in the network silicon, via NGS perhaps. | 11:29 |
| janders | but.. better over VLAN than a VXLAN :) | 11:29 |
| oneswig | If firewall rules could also be attached, even better | 11:29 |
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| verdurin | NGS? | 11:30 |
| oneswig | janders: how are your experiences with VXLAN now? | 11:30 |
| oneswig | verdurin: ah, networking-generic-switch - bare metal switch driver | 11:30 |
| verdurin | ah, thanks oneswig | 11:30 |
| janders | I haven't had a chance to try Mark's hints yet, so I'm in the same place as two weeks back except I had some brief exchanges with Mellanox and they might look at better supporting the vxlan / IB scenari | 11:31 |
| janders | *scenario | 11:31 |
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| janders | I think it would be cool to have virtual ethernet + SRIOV IB + baremetal IB in one cluster | 11:31 |
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| janders | maximum flexibility | 11:32 |
| verdurin | janders: that does sound appealing | 11:32 |
| oneswig | janders: for a certain definition of "fun", it's maximum fun | 11:32 |
| janders | and some spare HPC gear can do a great job running non-HPC applications. Nova-compute in baremetal instances means super easy scaling. | 11:32 |
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| oneswig | It's a pretty interesting setup. Have you documented it / blogged it anywhere yet? | 11:34 |
| janders | No, not yet. I was hoping to give a preso at the Berlin summit about the hypervisor-in-an-ironic-instance idea, but it doesn't look like it made it | 11:35 |
| oneswig | Oh that's disappointing. | 11:35 |
| oneswig | Scientific SIG lightning talk perhaps? Sure you can cover it in 3 minutes... | 11:36 |
| janders | I wonder if that's because it's niche or because it's too early for such ideas | 11:36 |
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| janders | Sure thing! Would be more than happy to do that | 11:36 |
| verdurin | Yes, please do. | 11:36 |
| janders | 90s talking and 90s demo of ansible spinning up an extra compute node in a baremetal instance | 11:37 |
| janders | :) | 11:37 |
| oneswig | I am sure plenty of people would be interested to see it. | 11:37 |
| janders | or 60 + 60 + 60 for questions? :) | 11:37 |
| oneswig | Mixing virt and ironic has historically been a real PITA and this solution is a creative one :-) | 11:38 |
| oneswig | janders: if you have anything online about it we could put it on the agenda for an IRC session (but more people attend the summit sessions) | 11:39 |
| oneswig | priteau: anything to report from elsewhere at the PTG? | 11:40 |
| priteau | We had an interesting session with a lot of placement folks to discuss an approach for Blazar to use | 11:41 |
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| priteau | This brought up a requirement for placement to support reporting allocation candidates on providers which are *not* part of a specific aggregate | 11:41 |
| priteau | This should give us Ironic compatibility in Blazar as well. I am going to spec and prototype in the near future. | 11:42 |
| janders | oneswig: regarding compute-on-ironic - I don't have anything yet, but I could get something ready in say a month's time - which would be around a month ahead of the Summit.. There's a lot of planning work going on at CSIRO at the moment which is pulling me away from more technical work. | 11:43 |
| oneswig | Sounds productive. And good to bring Blazar integrations into consideration | 11:43 |
| janders | priteau: sounds great! | 11:43 |
| oneswig | janders: would be great if you do that, let me know | 11:43 |
| oneswig | priteau: anything on premptibles and blazar yet? | 11:43 |
| priteau | I briefly outlined an approach for providing preemptibles via Blazar, there wasn't much discussion though. Just need to do it I guess :-) | 11:45 |
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| oneswig | Anything else from the PTG to cover? | 11:46 |
| janders | oneswig: yes | 11:46 |
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| janders | point 2 - BIOS management via Ironic | 11:46 |
| janders | have you used these features much? With what results? | 11:47 |
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| oneswig | We have not. We use ansible modules externally to talk to Dell BIOSes - https://galaxy.ansible.com/stackhpc/drac and https://galaxy.ansible.com/stackhpc/drac-facts | 11:48 |
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| oneswig | One of the team just recently looked into https://github.com/dell/Dell-EMC-Ansible-Modules-for-iDRAC - anyone use these? | 11:48 |
| oneswig | But no I haven't used the Ironic interface yet. | 11:49 |
| janders | ok! similar here - I just used Dell-provided tools (pretty average) | 11:49 |
| verdurin | It would be a shame to stick with these vendor-specific interfaces rather than Redfish. | 11:49 |
| janders | these ansible playbooks look great! I look forward to trying these out | 11:49 |
| oneswig | verdurin: indeed. Although I think Redfish only removes a vendor-specific transport. Like SNMP, the useful data's still in a vendor-specific mib-like thingy | 11:49 |
| verdurin | Though I found that Ironic still had some Redfish wrinkles. | 11:50 |
| janders | what server models have you tested these with? I wonder if my ancient M620s would cooperate.. | 11:50 |
| oneswig | janders: I am doubtful... I think it works with Dell C6320 but not C6220. We've also used it on R630, R740, etc. | 11:51 |
| oneswig | that era of kit | 11:51 |
| janders | right - I have some M630s (much less painful to work with) so there's hope | 11:51 |
| oneswig | verdurin: what wrinkles did you find with redfish? | 11:51 |
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| verdurin | One the HPE gear I was testing on, while all the introspection would work, it would fail at setting up power management | 11:52 |
| verdurin | It may have been an outdated Sushy library. There were some similar bugs reported. | 11:53 |
| oneswig | as in, power on/off, rather than server power/performance profiles? | 11:53 |
| verdurin | The former, yes. | 11:53 |
| janders | another slightly related question: I'm thinking of trying to use the smarts in SSD/NVMe (trim/discard type of stuff) for node cleaning (instead of dding zeroes all over the drives, wasting time and flash writes). Do you have any experience with this? | 11:53 |
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| oneswig | Why, yes we do :-) | 11:53 |
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| oneswig | It mostly works and saves a ton of time on fat nodes! | 11:54 |
| janders | do you trigger these through a custom node cleaning step, or is there some integration allowing ironic to do it more consciously? | 11:55 |
| oneswig | janders: I'll ask my colleague who did the work to find a link. | 11:55 |
| janders | oneswig: thank you! :) it's great to hear it's a real thing | 11:56 |
| priteau | There is an option in Ironic, enable_ata_secure_erase. I wonder if Linux will take this request for SSDs as well? | 11:56 |
| oneswig | priteau: I believe that's all that is needed. It works for SSDs | 11:57 |
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| priteau | #link https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase | 11:57 |
| priteau | Apparently enable_ata_secure_erase in Ironic default to true | 11:57 |
| oneswig | We are just about out of time.. anything more to add? | 11:58 |
| oneswig | verdurin: are you planning to attend CIUK in December? | 11:59 |
| priteau | But if it fails, shred_random_overwrite_iterations and shred_final_overwrite_with_zeros pick up with overwriting data | 11:59 |
| priteau | janders: Check your config for these option, and the IPA logs during cleaning | 11:59 |
| priteau | Maybe your ATA Secure Erase is failing for some reason | 11:59 |
| verdurin | oneswig: if we're not in the middle of a tender, yes | 11:59 |
| janders | ok, thanks guys! looks like all the smarts are already in Ironic | 11:59 |
| oneswig | We did get some spurious errors with secure erase on some SSDs, I think a FW update was needed. | 12:00 |
| janders | great chat, thank you all! | 12:00 |
| verdurin | Bye all. | 12:00 |
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| oneswig | Thanks everyone | 12:00 |
| oneswig | #endmeeting | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Sep 12 12:00:36 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2018/scientific_sig.2018-09-12-11.00.html | 12:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2018/scientific_sig.2018-09-12-11.00.txt | 12:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2018/scientific_sig.2018-09-12-11.00.log.html | 12:00 |
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| priteau | Bye everyone | 12:01 |
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| fungi | reminder, no storyboard meeting in here today | 19:19 |
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