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| mlavalle | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jan 18 14:00:55 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mlavalle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 14:00 |
| slaweq | hi | 14:01 |
| mlavalle | hi | 14:01 |
| cheng1 | hi | 14:01 |
| mlavalle | let's wait 2 min for people to congregate | 14:01 |
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| njohnston_ | o/ | 14:02 |
| njohnston_ | haleyb let me know he would miss the first half of the meeting, his previous appointment is running late | 14:02 |
| mlavalle | so we need amotoki to have quorum | 14:03 |
| mlavalle | thanks for the update njohnston_ :-) | 14:04 |
| mlavalle | in the meantime: cheng1 is there something you want to bring up? | 14:04 |
| cheng1 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1808731 | 14:05 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1808731 in neutron "[RFE] Needs to restart metadata proxy with the start/restart of l3/dhcp agent" [Undecided,Triaged] - Assigned to cheng li (chengli3) | 14:05 |
| cheng1 | this bug, will we have a look? | 14:05 |
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| mlavalle | I left a comment last night in that bug | 14:06 |
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| mlavalle | and I think slaweq agrees with me | 14:06 |
| mlavalle | and haleyb as well | 14:06 |
| cheng1 | mlavalle: we may need the same implement as other agents, like dnsmasq | 14:07 |
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| slaweq | mlavalle: basically I agree with Your comment, but I also think that doing restart of haproxy only during start of agent may work - as it's only short time when it will not be available | 14:07 |
| slaweq | so in fact I think that in most cases client will have longer http timeout configured and will wait for response | 14:08 |
| cheng1 | sure, it will | 14:08 |
| cheng1 | like dnsmasq, we don't stop metadata proxy with the stop of l3/dhcp agent | 14:09 |
| cheng1 | just restart it with the restart/start of l3/dhcp agent | 14:09 |
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| mlavalle | in the case of l3 agents, today haproxy is not related to start of the agent | 14:10 |
| njohnston_ | So if this is really for an upgrades concern, doesn't this properly live in the realm of orchestration such as what ansible or puppet provides? Usually a tool like that will be used to choreograph the sequence of events needed for upgrades, if I am not mistaken. | 14:10 |
| mlavalle | njohnston_: that's the point of my comment of last night | 14:11 |
| mlavalle | as usual, you articulated it better than me :-) | 14:11 |
| cheng1 | it's not only about upgrade | 14:11 |
| cheng1 | Curreny implement, metadata proxy doesn't restart even we restart l3 agent | 14:12 |
| cheng1 | or dhcp agent | 14:12 |
| njohnston_ | why would you want it to? | 14:12 |
| cheng1 | this will result in issue | 14:12 |
| mlavalle | but going back to my previous point, in the case of router based proxies, the trigger is the creation, update or deletion or routers | 14:13 |
| cheng1 | For example, if we change the metadata_port from default 9697 to 9699 | 14:13 |
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| cheng1 | the new 9699 port will not be used, because metadata proxy doesn't restart | 14:14 |
| mlavalle | so, when we restart the agent, we need to restart the proxies in that agent | 14:14 |
| mlavalle | all the porxies in all the routers in that agent^^^ | 14:14 |
| cheng1 | yes, that what I want to say | 14:14 |
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| mlavalle | could that be very disruptive? | 14:15 |
| liuyulong | Such change should not manipulate for a cloud administrator, IMO. | 14:15 |
| mlavalle | liuyulong: what do you mean? can you clarify? | 14:16 |
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| njohnston_ | what is the agents could reread the configuration when it changes, like what we implemented for neutron server? That would be a way to nondisruptively load the change. Since if you're changing the metadata proxy config file you are managing objects on that host, it should not eb too much of an extra step to issue a signal to trigger the config file reload | 14:16 |
| liuyulong | IIRC, such proxy should not do any config change during agent down time. | 14:17 |
| mlavalle | liuyulong: yes, that's been my point | 14:17 |
| slaweq | njohnston_: but we are talking here about reload haproxy config, not l3 agent | 14:18 |
| slaweq | can haproxy reload config without restart? | 14:18 |
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| mlavalle | cheng1: also, what are the use cases where you have seen the need for this? can you elaborate on that? we are having a theoretical discussion without understanding the need behind it | 14:19 |
| mlavalle | I am hesitant to introduce changes in the data plane in principle, however minor, but maybe the need justifies it | 14:20 |
| cheng1 | mlavalle: there is a running openstack env | 14:20 |
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| cheng1 | for some reason, I want to change metadata_port | 14:20 |
| cheng1 | the step is to change the config in neutron config files | 14:21 |
| cheng1 | then restart l3 agent | 14:21 |
| cheng1 | but restart l3 agent doens't restart metaproxy | 14:21 |
| cheng1 | current implement of reload by 'kill', which doesn't re-generate configuration from neutron.conf | 14:22 |
| mlavalle | but that is a hypothetical: "for some reason". do you have an actual use case? | 14:22 |
| cheng1 | not really, but it could be an use case | 14:22 |
| mlavalle | we can all go through the code and start hypothesizing about changes we could make to it | 14:23 |
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| mlavalle | but we have a huge installed base to worry about. we should introduce only changes where the actual reward justifies the risk we always run when we introduce changes | 14:24 |
| cheng1 | just would like to confirm this bug in the meeting | 14:24 |
| slaweq | mlavalle: well said :) | 14:24 |
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| mlavalle | and I am known to be in favor to introduce more features and running the risk of doing so, but I want to know the reward in terms of the benefits we will deliver to ACTUAL use cases. Then I'm willing to run the associated risks | 14:26 |
| liuyulong | Actually the l3-agent and dhcp-agent can be hosted on the dedicated machines. And the port allocations for such key/bottleneck services should be planned in advance. | 14:26 |
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| slaweq | cheng1: mlavalle: what about writting somewhere in docs that if You change in L3 config something related to metadata proxy, e.g. metadata_port, You should kill haproxy services before restart of L3 agent to changes takes effect | 14:27 |
| cheng1 | besides metadata_port, there could be other parameters for metadata proxy. | 14:27 |
| slaweq | that would be for sure less risky :) | 14:28 |
| slaweq | and operators would be aware of it then IMO | 14:28 |
| mlavalle | but today, if you kill the proxies and re-start the agent, you won't re-start the proxies | 14:29 |
| mlavalle | proxies are associated to routers events | 14:29 |
| mlavalle | right? | 14:30 |
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| slaweq | mlavalle: L3 agent will not check if proxy is running and start it if it's not? | 14:30 |
| mlavalle | right | 14:30 |
| slaweq | I think it will take care of it during restart | 14:30 |
| liuyulong | slaweq, mlavalle, a router admin-state down/up action may work. But such action will cause inevitable data plane down. | 14:31 |
| mlavalle | right | 14:31 |
| cheng1 | I see we restart dnsmasq with the restart of dhcp agent | 14:32 |
| cheng1 | why we don't restart metadata proxy with l3/dhcp agent | 14:32 |
| mlavalle | cheng1: yes, but that is not a valid analogy. it is a consequence of the way we use dnsmasq | 14:32 |
| mlavalle | and the way dnsmasq works | 14:33 |
| liuyulong | cheng1, DHCP can reload the config is because the normal user can set the attributes for it. | 14:33 |
| liuyulong | meanwhile meta proxy is transparent to users | 14:33 |
| mlavalle | slaweq: you spent a long time with a public cloud operator. In your exxperience, is this something relevan to that operator? | 14:35 |
| mlavalle | same question to you liuyulong. you work today for a big operator | 14:36 |
| slaweq | mlavalle: unfortunatelly in this case there is no L3 agent used at all | 14:36 |
| mlavalle | slaweq: good answer... LOL | 14:36 |
| liuyulong | mlavalle, yes? | 14:36 |
| mlavalle | liuyulong: I was asking whether a change like the one cheng1 is proposing would be benefitial for the company you work for | 14:37 |
| mlavalle | and I ask these questions because so far we don't have an actual use case. So I want to see what operators would think about it | 14:39 |
| liuyulong | mlavalle, as I said before such change should not happen during agend down time. The config should be planned in advance. And it then should not change in the cloud entire life cycle. Otherwise it will increasing OP difficulties. | 14:40 |
| slaweq | maybe it would be good idea to send email to ML and ask operators about their feedback on this? | 14:40 |
| slaweq | and then we can back to this talk here :) | 14:41 |
| mlavalle | liuyulong: thanks | 14:41 |
| liuyulong | mlavalle, np | 14:41 |
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| mlavalle | slaweq: I have expressed my opinion on this and I don't see the need to make changes for the sake of making changes. But I am willing to be overruled if: | 14:42 |
| mlavalle | 1) other members of the drivers team reach consensus this is needed | 14:42 |
| mlavalle | 2) we identify a set of actual operators who see the benefit of this. The ML is a good way to try to get that feedback. Great suggestion | 14:43 |
| mlavalle | it can even be a topic of discussion for the next forum / ptg | 14:44 |
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| cheng1 | mlavalle: got it, thanks | 14:45 |
| slaweq | forum would be better IMO, and I agree with You mlavalle :) | 14:45 |
| mlavalle | cheng1: do you want to start a thread in the ML and see if we get feedback from the community | 14:45 |
| mlavalle | ? | 14:45 |
| mlavalle | BTW, cheng1, slaweq, liuyulong, njohnston_: great discussion. This is what this meeting is for ;-) | 14:47 |
| mlavalle | sorry I played the stubborn role this time around | 14:47 |
| mlavalle | cheng1: and I thank you for your suggestions and arguments. They are always welcome | 14:48 |
| slaweq | mlavalle++ | 14:48 |
| njohnston_ | mlavalle++ | 14:48 |
| cheng1 | mlavalle: Maybe after days, I can try ML | 14:49 |
| mlavalle | cheng1: great. thanks again | 14:49 |
| mlavalle | Since we don't have drivers quorum, and we have only 10 minutes left, I propose we look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1811166 | 14:51 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1811166 in neutron "[RFE] Enforce router admin_state_up=False before distributed update" [Wishlist,New] - Assigned to Matt Welch (mattw4) | 14:51 |
| mlavalle | after reading it last night, my thinking is that this is not a RFE. It's really a bug | 14:51 |
| mlavalle | the code should do what the submitter proposes: https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/db/l3_dvr_db.py#L86 | 14:52 |
| mlavalle | slaweq, liuyulong, njohnston_, cheng1: what do you think? | 14:52 |
| davidsha | It might have been a mistaken use of the RFE tag, they don't seem to have anyother bugs to their name. | 14:53 |
| mlavalle | he was nudged by the bugs deputy of that week to classify it as a RFE | 14:54 |
| mlavalle | that's my impression at least | 14:54 |
| slaweq | it was marked as RFE as it is trying to change exsiting API behaviour I guess | 14:54 |
| slaweq | other than that I agree that it should be like that | 14:55 |
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| slaweq | so it should require admin_state_up=False before migration | 14:55 |
| davidsha | Ya, spotted that in the comments just there | 14:55 |
| mlavalle | yes and in fixing it, we should document properly the change of bahavior to what it should have been from the beginning | 14:56 |
| slaweq | and now the question is: do we need shim api extension to make this fix discoverable? | 14:56 |
| liuyulong | agree with slaweq | 14:57 |
| mlavalle | yes, slaweq, I think you are right | 14:57 |
| mlavalle | as much as I dislike our extensions sprawl, in this case I think it is needed | 14:57 |
| slaweq | :) | 14:57 |
| mlavalle | good suggestion slaweq | 14:57 |
| slaweq | yes | 14:57 |
| slaweq | I agree that it's necessary | 14:58 |
| slaweq | also, I think it would be good to add scenario tests to https://github.com/openstack/neutron-tempest-plugin/blob/master/neutron_tempest_plugin/scenario/test_migration.py | 14:58 |
| liuyulong | Seems the bug requests to save one step to accomplish that migration? | 14:58 |
| slaweq | because now we are not testing if migration is forbidden when router don't have admin_state_up=False | 14:58 |
| slaweq | and it would be useful IMHO | 14:58 |
| mlavalle | good point slaweq | 14:59 |
| mlavalle | so let's handle this as a bug | 14:59 |
| mlavalle | and I will update it with your suggestions | 14:59 |
| slaweq | thx | 14:59 |
| njohnston_ | +1 | 14:59 |
| mlavalle | trhanks for your attendance. We'll do it all over again next week | 14:59 |
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| mlavalle | have a great weekend! | 15:00 |
| slaweq | have a great weekend! | 15:00 |
| slaweq | o/ | 15:00 |
| mlavalle | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jan 18 15:00:14 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| liuyulong | bye | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2019/neutron_drivers.2019-01-18-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2019/neutron_drivers.2019-01-18-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2019/neutron_drivers.2019-01-18-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
| davidsha | Thanks, enjoy the weekend! | 15:00 |
| njohnston_ | o/ | 15:00 |
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| mlavalle | davidsha: nice to see you around. we want to see more of you | 15:00 |
| cheng1 | good weekend! | 15:00 |
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| davidsha | mlavalle: I'm going to keep trying! | 15:02 |
| mlavalle | :-) | 15:02 |
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