Tuesday, 2019-04-02

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samP#startmeeting masakari04:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  2 04:01:17 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is samP. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.04:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.04:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'masakari'04:01
samPHi all for masakari04:01
samP#topic Patches/bug need discussion04:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Patches/bug need discussion (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:02
samPAny patches or bugs need to discuss here?04:02
samP#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/648272/04:03
samPDidn't submit a release for masakari-dashboard, since Kendall proposed a patch for this.04:04
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samPI put +1 for that.04:04
samPThis will be the release for masakari-dashboard04:04
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samP#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari-monitors/+bug/172852704:05
openstackLaunchpad bug 1728527 in masakari-monitors "hostmonitor can not monitor pacemaker_remote node via cibadmin query" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Liam Young (gnuoy)04:05
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samPthis was previouly reported issue.04:06
samPLiam Youngyes04:06
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samPtpatil: Hi04:06
samPcurrenlty discussing imported bugs and patches04:07
samPPlease review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/647756/, if you have time04:07
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samPThis patch is relate to ->04:08
samP #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari-monitors/+bug/172852704:08
openstackLaunchpad bug 1728527 in masakari-monitors "hostmonitor can not monitor pacemaker_remote node via cibadmin query" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Liam Young (gnuoy)04:08
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samPAny other bugs/patches need to discuss?04:09
samP#topic AOB04:10
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:10
samPLet's plan the Train work items.04:11
samP#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/masakari-train-workitems04:11
samPPlease input any proposal for Train release04:12
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samPNew ideas, fetatus, anyting is wellcome. Just write them out. so we can discuss how to proceed.04:14
samPAny other items to share?04:14
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samPif not, we can conlude today's meeting. Please ues #openstack-masakari IRC @freenode or openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org ML for further discussion.04:16
tpatilsamP: I will update work items in etherpad and we can discuss about them in the next week04:16
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samPah, for Train work items, lets brainstorm for 2 weeks and on 4/16 do the discussion and planing04:18
samPtpatil: thanks04:18
samPI will share this info in ML also04:18
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samPShall I end the meeting? any other items?04:19
tpatilsamP: Nothing else to discuss from my end04:19
samPtpatil: thanks04:20
samPthank you all for your time04:20
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/"04:20
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  2 04:20:17 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)04:20
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2019/masakari.2019-04-02-04.01.html04:20
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2019/masakari.2019-04-02-04.01.txt04:20
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2019/masakari.2019-04-02-04.01.log.html04:20
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dkushwaha#startmeeting tacker08:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  2 08:01:21 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dkushwaha. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)"08:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tacker'08:01
dkushwaha#topic Roll Call08:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)"08:01
dkushwahawho is here for Tacker weekly meeting?08:01
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dkushwahahello hyunsikyang08:05
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dkushwahaok lets start..08:07
dkushwaha#topic Fenix plugin support08:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Fenix plugin support (Meeting topic: tacker)"08:07
dkushwaha#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/64324208:08
dkushwahahyunsikyang, have some queries on BPs08:08
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hyunsikyangYes please.08:08
hyunsikyangCan I explain it first?08:09
dkushwahahyunsikyang, is there any separate template for maintenance ??08:09
hyunsikyangah. yes,08:09
dkushwahahyunsikyang, yes, go ahead08:09
hyunsikyanguntil now, we just added maintenance property in the template.08:10
hyunsikyangWhen user use this property, that VNF register AODH to get the event from fenix.08:10
dkushwahai could not see it in sample template in spec08:11
hyunsikyangIn the blueprint, you can see the template.08:11
dkushwahahyunsikyang, oh, my mistake, just checked, yes it was there08:11
hyunsikyangIt looks similar like general things.08:11
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dkushwahaten my comment on line#124 is also invalid08:13
hyunsikyangSo, that VNF can receive the alaram from Fenix. So, when fenix want to start maintenace, tacker can help for Maintenance.08:13
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hyunsikyangNow, we draw only one procedure, but we will seperate it, soon.08:15
dkushwahai see08:15
hyunsikyangAnd VNF Stop is just one of the example. so Changing the path thing is more acceptable.08:15
hyunsikyangI will change some part:)08:16
dkushwahamy comment on line#128 is to explain activities on tacker side in details08:18
dkushwahai mean, for example if we are talking about VNF stop(or anything else), what action will tacker perform in that, and how it will resume once maintenance done08:19
hyunsikyangActually, Fenix have a workflow like flow i draw in the bp.08:20
hyunsikyangSo, sometimes, it requires action to perform the maintenace such as down scaling..08:21
hyunsikyangor up scaling or migrate.08:21
hyunsikyangNow tacker can't support all of actions.08:21
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hyunsikyangBut, we can make a procedure and messing structure first.08:22
hyunsikyangwhen we think about the role of tacker for maintenance,08:23
dkushwahayes, Regarding Fenix workflow, that one is complete flow from fenix to tacker, it will be good if we can also explain more about tacker side08:23
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dkushwahahyunsikyang, agree, we can move step by step for other actions08:24
hyunsikyangAh ok.08:24
hyunsikyangAfter update, please check it again.08:24
dkushwahayea sure08:25
dkushwahaone more thing08:25
dkushwahawe also needs to mention about the VNF status.08:25
hyunsikyangAh you mean that when VNF have a problem, is it going to tell to Fenix?08:26
dkushwahaEx. once VNF goes in maintenance state, we needs to update that08:26
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dkushwahabtw, very nice and clear workflow diagram08:27
hyunsikyangYes In the fenix, when fenix upgrade node, it changed the status of node as a disable.08:27
hyunsikyanglike this, we also think the way to present current status.08:28
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dkushwahahyunsikyang, IMO, once fenix change status of node, same should be reflected in VNF status as well08:29
hyunsikyangYes, I will think it again. because, now i am thinking to seperate procedure like infra maintenance and VNF maintenance/08:30
dkushwahahyunsikyang, I have further queries as of now08:31
dkushwahatypo:  no further queries as of now08:32
dkushwahahyunsikyang, do you have something else to discuss?08:33
dkushwaha otherwise we can close this meeting08:33
dkushwahaThanks hyunsik for joining this meeting :)08:34
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dkushwahaclosing it now08:34
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/"08:35
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  2 08:35:04 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:35
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2019/tacker.2019-04-02-08.01.html08:35
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2019/tacker.2019-04-02-08.01.txt08:35
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2019/tacker.2019-04-02-08.01.log.html08:35
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clarkbAnyone here for the infra meeting? we will get started shortly18:59
clarkb#startmeeting infra19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  2 19:01:11 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is clarkb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:01
clarkb#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2019-April/006299.html19:01
clarkb#topic Announcements19:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
clarkbI don't have any announcements. Anyone else have announcements?19:01
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clarkb#topic Actions from last meeting19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
corvusclarkb: i think you just made an announcement :)19:03
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clarkb#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2019/infra.2019-03-26-19.01.txt minutes from last meeting19:03
clarkbThank you ianw for running the meeting last week19:03
clarkbfrickler: had an action to look into disk monitoring of nodepool builders19:03
clarkbfrickler: ^ any update on that?19:03
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corvus#link http://cacti.openstack.org/cacti/graph.php?action=view&local_graph_id=66463&rra_id=all19:04
fricklerthat seems to be solved19:04
fricklershould work for optional volumes on all of our servers19:05
corvus++ thanks!19:05
clarkband I know shrews has a change up to fix the underlying issue with the builders19:05
clarkbwe should be well covered on that item going forward19:05
fricklerthe usage looked pretty stable in the graphs19:06
Shrewsyep: https://review.openstack.org/647599 and parent19:06
clarkbthank you for everonye that has helped make that better19:08
clarkb#topic Priority Efforts19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
clarkbI'm skipping specs approvals as I don't think we have any to look at and we have a fairly full meeting otherwise19:08
clarkb#topic Update Config Management19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Update Config Management (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
clarkbBefore I took off on vacation I got a bunch more hosts upgraded to puppet-419:08
clarkbthank you to cmurphy for continuing to help and push on that19:08
corvushear hear19:09
clarkbThere are still more hosts to be updated under topic:puppet-4 if you have time to review those. I'm happy to approve as I can watch them and fix issues that arise19:09
clarkbAnything new on the docker side of things?19:11
clarkbSeems like we've got a pretty solid foundation for both and now its mostly a matter of pushing the conversions? Not surprising those are moving slowly as we also tackle opendev things19:11
corvusyeah, nothing new from me on that, and probably not until summit...19:11
corvusbut i'm looking forward to working on that at ptg19:12
clarkbConsidering ^ lets talk OpenDev19:12
clarkb#topic OpenDev19:12
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenDev (Meeting topic: infra)"19:12
clarkbHow are we looking for the transition on the 19th19:13
clarkbare we down to building a script/tool/playbook to do the actual transition and collecting lists of renames?19:13
corvus#link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/200462719:14
corvusfungi: how's the redirect stuff coming?19:14
corvus(though i haven't seen fungi in this meeting yet)19:15
fungii started playing around with the hard-coded list of repositories idea for the non-openstack.org sites and it seems to work, i'll get something up others can test later today i hope19:15
* fungi has been lurking and hacking on changes at the same time19:15
fungithe rabbit hole on the script to do the repository changes is continuing to deepen though19:16
fungianother scenario came to mind which i don't know if we need to be concerned with19:16
fungias we're also doing project renames, i expect rather a lot of namespace changes to embedded checkout file paths in zuul job definitions19:17
fungishould this task also grow to attempt altering more than just the domain name in those?19:17
corvusi'm inclined to say 'no' because the potential for error is high19:18
fungiand is there anywhere else we should be similarly concerned about namespace changes within repo content?19:18
corvuswe can make sure that devstack, grenade, etc are fixed up quickly after the switch; that should solve a lot of problems19:19
ianwfungi: is that different to what we mentioned a few meetings ago, things like the requirements files checkouts?19:19
clarkbya and the unittest type jobs should use the implicit $thisproject checkout19:20
fungiianw: yes, insofar as it's the namespaces, not just the domains19:20
corvusbut in general, trying to figure out if 'openstack/nova' is an active string constant reference or just some text is a lot of work19:20
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fungiso for example if a job defniition refers to git.openstack.org/openstack-infra/zuul-jobs the difference between rewriting that to opendev.org/openstack-infra/zuul-jobs vs opendev.org/zuul/zuul-jobs19:21
fungithe former will be broken and need replacing with the latter after the maintenance19:22
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ianwfungi: ahh, so you're meaning (as corvus above says) places where 'openstack/nova' is found, but without a leading "openstack.org"?19:22
fungialso possible yes, without the domain present at all19:22
corvuswe could probably safely include 'git.openstack.org/openstack/foo' in the translation...19:22
fungiyes, however that means incorporating the list of namespace changes for all repositories into the routine if we do19:23
fungiwhich is why i raise it as a point of additional complexity19:23
ianwoh, i thought we were going to do that full rewrite in the jobs19:23
corvuswe need that in order to write .gitreview anyway19:23
corvusso, yeah, i think regardless the script that generate our force-merge patches should perform the full rewrite (domain + org)19:24
fungier, that wasn't what i was expecting, no. i thought this script was replacing review.openstack.org with review.opendev.org in .gitreview files and then the normal project renaming playbook was taking care of the namespace portion19:24
fungisince it would do that anyway19:25
corvusthe normal project renaming playbook makes .gitreview changes?19:25
fungioh, you're right, it doesn't. just moves files on disk and alters database rows19:25
fungiokay, i'll plan to include that too19:25
jrollside question: for the openstack namespaces, do you folks want those changes in the ethercalc sheet, or would something computer-readable (and writeable!)be easier?19:26
fungiso if the hostname portion is present in a string in playbooks/roles we can assume we should also alter the namespace appearing within that string19:26
clarkb#info Rename script should modify .gitreview and zuul job content to update hostnames and repo names19:27
clarkbfungi: ya as the other hostname won't work (particularly in the case of gitreview and zuul jobs)19:27
clarkbjroll: I believe we can export the ethercalc to csv which should be simple enough to then convert to something more structured if necessary19:27
fungijroll: the ethercalc is more for one-off/small groups of namespace changes. for large adjustments based on structured data it's probably easier to just let us know what you want done and we can generate that set ourselves19:27
corvusjroll: i yield to fungi on that since it's likely to be input to his script, but i see no reason to use the spreadsheet if you want to arrange something else19:27
jrollfungi: corvus: excellent, thanks :)19:28
jrollfungi: I'll sync with you once our governance change merges19:28
corvusand yeah, i expect we'll just export ethercalc to csv and translate/merge with the other data to input to the script19:28
fungithanks. less likely to end up with typos if i script up the list of openstack->whatever-catch-all namespace edits based on the governance projects.yaml19:28
fungigiven it's probably something like 1k renames19:29
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clarkbAlright anything else on the opendev subject?19:31
ianwjust for reference19:31
ianw#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2019/infra.2019-03-26-19.01.log.html#l-8119:31
ianwwas the last meeting where we talked about that rename ^ too19:31
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clarkb#topic Storyboard19:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Storyboard (Meeting topic: infra)"19:32
clarkbfungi diablo_rojo_phon SotK how are storyboard things?19:32
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fungitrove just relocated to storyboard.o.o19:33
fungi(roughly two months after we stopped using trove for storyboard.o.o, the irony)19:33
fungii've been sort of buried under other things for the past week so not really sure what else is going on... i think the outreachy flood may have died down now that the deadline has passed19:34
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clarkbOk sounds like we should moev on19:36
clarkb#topic General Topics19:36
*** openstack changes topic to "General Topics (Meeting topic: infra)"19:36
fungii think diablo_rojo_phon is sucked into conference travel anyway19:36
clarkbFirst up: PTG Planning19:36
clarkb#link https://www.openstack.org/ptg#tab_schedule Schedule has us Thursday and Friday19:37
clarkbIt is my understanding that the scheduel above is the "final" scheduel and shows us thursday and friday19:37
clarkbcorvus: that means you don't have an idle day and we avoid the TC conflict for fungi19:37
clarkb#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/2019-denver-ptg-infra-planning Agenda brainstorming19:37
clarkbAs we start to really dig into the opendev stuff feel free to add items ^ there for things we should followup on after the transition19:38
clarkbnext up is Letsencrypt progress19:39
clarkb#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/636759/ Ready for review19:39
clarkbianw says ^ is ready for review. That will end up being a big piece of transitioning further services over to opendev so reviews much appreciated19:40
ianwyes please, and a few minor changes below that19:40
clarkbNext is trusty server upgrade status19:41
clarkb#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/201808-infra-server-upgrades-and-cleanup19:41
clarkb#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/lists.o.o-trusty-to-xenial lists.openstack.org in place upgrade notes19:41
clarkbI've been picking up the work to test an in place upgrade for lists.openstack.org19:41
clarkbThe do-release-upgrade takes about 45 minutes which should be plenty quick for people doing smtp19:41
clarkbThe new xenial server seems to not break our vhosting of mailman 219:42
clarkbI've created a test mailing list and sent mail through it successfully19:42
clarkbThe one big issue we've found is nothing I try results in mailman preserving original body content and instead it gets base64 encoded because the default is to use utf8 and python email lib converts utf8 email to base6419:43
clarkbThis is only really an issue if considered in the context of dkim/dmarc19:43
clarkbbecause email won't verify if mailman is converting body content to base64 and the dmarc policy checks the body19:43
corvusit's also.. well.. weird19:44
clarkbI have confirmed that overriding /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py to force the en language to ascii instead of utf8 fixes this behavior19:44
corvusi mean, even aside from dmarc, it makes messages larger than necessary19:44
corvuswhether that should be a blocker for us... <shrug>?19:45
clarkbya I'm sort of running out of ideas at this point short of actually learning how the deep internals of mailman work19:46
clarkbwe could force the list back to ascii which has downsides too19:46
clarkbother options could be to use mailman's new email munging features in the mailman on xenial to deal with dmarc though we've avoided those previously19:47
clarkbAt this point I think it would be good if someone else looked at it without my direct help (just to make sure I've not missed anything with pebkac)19:48
fungiyeah, we at least got a glimpse of how those work in reality since kata-dev turned it on to deal with dmarc-signed messages (particularly from microsoft employees, if memory serves)19:48
clarkband if we don't turn up any good fixes after a second person looks at it then we should probably consider alternatives to dmarc handling19:49
clarkbLet me know if you can help or have ideas19:49
corvusi think deciding on an answer about whether the b64 encoding is expected and normal and okay regardless of dmarc is something we should do19:49
fungii think the method they enabled is the one which rewrites the from address on messages from domains which claim to require dkim enforcement, and wipes the dkim signatures from the headers19:50
corvusperhaps by spinning up a new MM instance (without any of our config mgmt) and examining its behavior19:50
clarkbcorvus: the impression I got from mailman and python was that this is at least normal and expected from their side19:50
fungibut yes, i agree, the base64 reencoding is also a concern on its own, dkim aside19:50
clarkbnote you'll need to use ubuntu for that as they patch in the default to utf819:51
clarkbso I guess mailman as an upstream still avoids this when lang is set to en19:51
corvusclarkb: well, i mean... we don't know what changed?19:51
clarkbcorvus: correct I still haven't narrowed down why openstack-discuss for example doesn't do this19:52
clarkbspinning up an unmodified mailman seems like a good next step19:52
clarkbto confirm the behavior19:52
fungii do have a mailman3 instance up and running which wasn't built with our configuration management, but it's not mailman2 obviously and also hackily upgraded to bionic rather than xenial, so likely not useful for this exercise19:52
clarkbfungi: maybe you can help with the mailman2 equivalent of that? I'm assuming it isn't as simple as apt-get install mailman on xenial? or maybe it is?19:53
clarkb(I can probably drive that, will just have lots of questions)19:53
fungiit basically is as simple as that, yes19:54
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mm3poc19:54
clarkbcool I'l take a look at that after lunch then19:54
fungithat's mostly what i did for mailman 3 (used distro packages)19:54
fungiit's also basically what our puppet-mailman module does too, it just also happens to do a lot of configuring19:55
clarkbcorvus: on figuring out what changed the two versions (ignoring ubuntu patches) are 2.1.16 on trusty and 2.1.20 on xenial19:55
clarkbI did bzr clone and diff between those versions which produces a fairly large diff but maybe I should do moer than a quick skim19:55
clarkbalso do a review of the ubuntu pathcset I suppose19:55
clarkblikely to not be a fast process unless I happen to get lucky19:56
clarkbin any case that gives us two things to try19:56
clarkb#topic Open Discussion19:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:56
clarkbWanted to quickly note that the i18n team seems to think we don't need to take urgent action re zanata. Would be good if we could talk to fedora about their plans though19:57
clarkbanyone know current fedora people? (Maybe robyn can point us in the right direction)19:57
ianwi don't but i can see what ican find out19:57
ianwmaybe give me an action item so i don't forget :)19:58
clarkb#action ianw check in with fedora on post zanata plans19:58
fungiit would be swell to find out if fedora plans to continue translating things, and if so, how19:59
clarkbAnd we are at time. Thank you everyone19:59
fungithanks clarkb!19:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/"19:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  2 19:59:43 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2019/infra.2019-04-02-19.01.html19:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2019/infra.2019-04-02-19.01.txt19:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2019/infra.2019-04-02-19.01.log.html19:59
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oneswig#startmeeting scientific-sig21:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  2 21:00:01 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_sig'21:00
oneswigHello o/21:00
oneswig#link agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_SIG#IRC_Meeting_April_2nd_201921:00
oneswigHey Bob!21:00
oneswigmartial_: you there?21:01
rbuddenhow’s it going?21:01
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oneswigvery good thanks.  A little distracted - baking a cake currently21:01
oneswigHow is GSFC?21:01
martial_Hello Stig21:01
oneswigHi martial_21:01
oneswig#chair martial_21:01
openstackCurrent chairs: martial_ oneswig21:02
oneswigmorning janders21:02
rbuddenit’s going well, getting settled in a bit finally and hopefully lending Jonathan a hand21:02
oneswigbright and early as always!21:02
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oneswigrbudden: cool, I'm sure he's got some good projects for you to work on.21:02
oneswig#topic HPC Containers event at ISC21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "HPC Containers event at ISC (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)"21:03
rbuddenyeah, we’ve got a lot of things planned, so i’ll be fairly busy with openstack work21:03
oneswigmartial_: tell us all about it21:03
martial_so I am on the program committee for HPCW21:03
oneswigrbudden: nice work if you can get it :-)21:03
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martial_#link https://easychair.org/cfp/hpcw201921:04
martial_we invite people to submit nice articles of course :)21:04
oneswigmartial_: what is HPCW and who's involved?21:04
martial_Christian Kniep (some of you have met him at SC19 last year)21:04
martial_(formerly at Docker)21:04
martial_`5th High Performance Containers Workshop - In conjunction with ISC HIGH PERFORMANCE 2019` (Frankfurt, Germany) (June)21:05
jandersI just emailed the link to my precision medicine gurus - they heavily use containers21:05
janderswould make a great preso - if they can make it (I probably won't attend the ISC)21:05
martial_Abstracts due Apr 2021:05
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martial_The CFP is at the link I just provided, which also gives you additional details21:06
oneswigmartial_: is it part of ISC or kind of next to it?  Wasn't sure what "in conjunction" means21:06
martial_but basically it was the result of conversation between Nvidia/Docker and universities to do a HPC container track21:07
martial_well it is a workshop part of the main conference21:07
oneswigcool, thanks21:07
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jandersbut different venue right?21:07
martial_so "part of" ? :)21:07
martial_janders: you know I do not know yet :)21:08
martial_we are still heavily into the get ready to review papers phase21:08
janders(as in walking distance, but not in frankfurter messe - it's Marriott)21:08
jandersI've attended something similar few years back, they did it the same way21:08
oneswigWere you there last year?  What's it like?21:08
martial_I was not at ISC last year, and was not part of HPCW then21:09
oneswigAh OK.  One of my colleagues (John) will be at ISC.  I'll pass on the details to him.21:10
oneswigGood luck with the CFP martial_!21:10
martial_so there is that, as always CFP is open so feel free to submit a paper21:10
jandersI'll find out who's going from CSIRO and take things from there21:11
jandersthank you for bringing this to my attention, I find this very relevant21:11
martial_Also, Accepted ISC 2019 workshop papers will be published in the Springer’s Lecture Notes in Computer Science (LNCS) series.21:11
jandersvalue add!21:11
martial_that is it for now, more as we get closer :)21:12
janderson to OpenStack's gaps?21:12
martial_#topic OpenStack's gaps: Help most needed for the Scientific SIG21:13
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack's gaps: Help most needed for the Scientific SIG (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)"21:13
martial_#link https://www.openstack.org/summit/denver-2019/summit-schedule/events/23612/help-most-needed-for-sigs-and-wgs21:13
jandersvery timely21:14
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martial_welcome b1airo21:14
b1airomade it, i think21:14
martial_#chair b1airo21:14
openstackCurrent chairs: b1airo martial_ oneswig21:14
oneswigHi b1airo21:14
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b1airoslow flight sorry21:14
oneswigindeed, top of the morning!21:14
b1airohow are things?21:14
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martialwe just jumped on the "OpenStack's gaps: Help most needed for the Scientific SIG" topic21:15
jandersmy 5 cents - we really need to get the SDN story straight21:15
jandersthere is a great deal of duplication of effort in the field21:15
jandersand square wheel reinvention is alive and well21:15
janderseach vendor seems to have own SDN platform21:16
jandersJuniper Mellanox Cisco Cumulus X Y Z21:16
oneswigjanders: tricky to standardise on somebody else's standard, I guess21:16
janderstrue, but I think ML2 proves it can be done21:16
jandersmost (not all) SDN-OpenStack solutions have 2 (or  more) sources of truth problem21:16
jandersand when these diverge, Bad Things (TM) happen21:17
jandersSDN is critical to multi tenant baremetal21:17
jandersand multi tenant baremetal is critical to OpenStack on HPC/scientific computing as far as I am concerned21:17
martialso yes making a list of topics :)21:18
jandersI think we need to do something about this and the Summit and PTG should be a good opportunity to start that conversation21:18
oneswigjanders: certainly resonates here21:18
janderswhat is to our advantage is - Telcos are OpenStack's cash cow21:18
jandersand guess what21:18
jandersit's exactly the same shit21:18
jandersexcept at higher stakes21:18
jandersso I think it's a solvable problem21:18
janderslet's gather the pain points, make a prioritised list, find out who to talk to21:19
jandersI am happy to use my high profile RH customer leverage to help make this happen21:19
oneswigRico Lin's running the event.  I don't know if there's an etherpad for gathering data21:19
martialshould we start an etherpad for this?21:19
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jandersanother pain point would be poor selection of storage choices for baremetal21:20
jandersfor VM-centric world, no ability to separate boot from ephemeral is not ideal21:20
janders(either of these nothing new)21:20
jandersbut the great SDN drama is by far no 1) painpoint to me - addressing this will make or break larger-scale OpenStack based supercomputers21:21
oneswigjanders: absolutely, good point on the storage.21:21
martialFresh Etherpad21:21
b1airoseems like a problem for edge deployments too, presumably they want cloud all the way down so they get same agility managing the underlying infrastructure as they do for their "customer" facing services21:21
martial#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-sig-denver2019-gaps21:21
oneswigAre you aware of the baremetal program that Chris Hoge has been getting together?21:21
oneswigNice, thanks martial21:21
jandersyes - and I am hoping to participate in this21:22
* ijw wakes up since people are talking SDN21:23
jandersI think two years fast forward, Ironic will be the new Keystone21:23
jandersnothing will happen without it21:23
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ijwIf you want help on SDN problems and solutions, come shout21:24
oneswigThanks ijw - any forum events lined up for that do you know?21:24
jandersijw: what would be the best place for discussions on this topic in Denver?21:24
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ijwHonestly, the usual answer to that is 'the corridors'21:24
jandersalso, should we have some discussions prior to Denver? What is the best audience and platform?21:25
oneswigjanders: it's not that far off, what do you have in mind?21:25
ijwSDN is almost precisely not what Neutron does - it provides the API.  If we can establish your actual needs we can work from there21:26
ijwAlso, k8s and OpenStack take radically different approaches, so this isn't a one-size-fits-all discussion21:26
jandersmy concern is the fact that many SDN platforms sort of hold their own copy of neutron state. In certain circumstances, the two copies diverge and that's no good.21:27
oneswigbe interesting to go into that in greater depth, in a corridor somewhere :-)21:27
jandersI haven't seen any mechanism that would force re-sync from neutron to SDN in the SDN solutions that I know of21:27
jandersand what completely kills it is the fact that SDN vendors go "it never breaks in my lab" and don't really pick this up21:28
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martialso far I see SDN in the Etherpad page, we ought to publicize it further21:28
oneswigjanders: it's a problem that events and changes can come from both directions - reconfigurations from above, physical network changes from below21:28
jandersalso taking a consistent end to end backup is non trivial21:28
jandersall of this worries me in the context of operations on a say 2000 node HPC system powered by baremetal OpenStack21:29
jandersit can be done today, but it is much more stressful than it needs to be21:29
jandersand the very same issue will hit telcos21:29
jandersso yeah I would be very keen to have an in-depth discussion on this in Denver, including at the PTG21:30
jandersit is a common worry of most of the OpenStack power-users I know21:30
ijwjanders: ultimately, multiple copies of state have to exist if you want SDN or anything distributed to work; the 'source of truth' argument is more a question of who wins when they get out of sync21:30
ijwAnd, I think more importantly, that they even notice that they're out of sync.21:31
janders..and how to safely put them back in sync21:31
jandersI couldn't agree more!21:31
ijwThe model we built for networking-vpp has a model for this, which is basically that everything that isn't Neutron is (a) effectively a combination of cache and communications model and (b) loses every fight21:32
ijwIt's an SDN solution, but it doesn't have a central controller; its job is just to get the various forwarders in the system to follow along with Neutron's desired21:33
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oneswigijw: does that system require physical network knowledge or is it built upon an IP fabric?21:35
jandersmine is all-InfiniBand21:35
b1airoDenver summit aside: can anyone remember the URL for the lightning talk etherpad...?21:36
oneswigI'll try digging...21:36
jandersso the baremetal nodes do have much more awareness of the fabric than just the IP layer21:36
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jandersokay I finished putting my points into the etherpad21:38
janderswhat other gaps do you guys see?21:38
oneswigwould be lovely to get behind more common components for monitoring, frankly.21:39
janders(and what are best practices of monitoring containerised services? :)21:41
jandersa nagios check doing "openstack-service status" would get one a long way historically21:42
jandersnow it looks like we'll be checking if containers are running smoothly and checking HAProxy stats?21:42
oneswigA lot of sites have Nagios in common21:42
jandersin the old days Red Hat would have nagios bits in PackStack and that would get 80% deployment work done in 15mins21:43
jandersit is what it is but it does the job and that sort of standardisation was nice21:43
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oneswigKolla-Ansible is doing some good things to integrate Monasca or ELK + Prometheus21:45
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oneswigSome of the people in our team have been involved in both of those21:46
jandersis that work focusing on the infra monitoring, workload monitoring or both?21:46
oneswigI'll add some thoughts to the Etherpad...21:47
oneswigMonasca is both, ELK+Prometheus is just for the control plane.21:47
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jandersshall we move on to the lightning talks?21:50
martial#topic Denver Summit: SIG meeting and BoF21:51
martialb1airo: did you already share an etherpad for this one?21:51
martialSharing a new Etherpad I guess :)21:52
martial#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-sig-denver2019-bof_lt21:52
martial#link https://www.openstack.org/summit/denver-2019/summit-schedule/events/23741/scientific-sig-bof-and-lightning-talks21:53
martialWe are on Monday this summit21:53
martialwe will run both the usual BoF and the lighting talks21:53
b1airomartial: i did already create one21:54
martialif you are interested in presenting during the ligthing talk session21:54
b1airoi'll dig through email/eavesdrop logs... want to get it included on the schedule page21:54
jandersgreat idea!21:54
martialb1airo: I thought so, could not find it when I looked last week, I apologize21:54
oneswigb1airo: +1 to that, would be good to broaden submission as much as we can.21:55
jandersI have a couple ideas based on current projects, I shall see if these will get to a presentable shape in the Denver timeframe21:55
martialso add your entry to the etherpad that will be shared in the summit session and disregard this one posted above :)21:56
b1airohere we are...21:56
b1airo#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-sig-denver19-bof21:56
oneswiggood digging b1airo21:56
oneswigEveryone OK for me to source a modest prize from the usual channels?21:57
janderssure! :)21:57
jandersalso - shall we start thinking about a SIG dinner venue?21:57
oneswigThat would be nice but I have zero local knowledge21:58
jandersI've got a friend who's from Colorado and will likely come to the SIG dinner21:58
janderswill ask him21:58
rbuddenindeed, would be good to get everyone together for a meal and some beers :)21:58
jandersgreat craft beer scene there I hear21:58
rbuddenyes, there is21:59
jandersshall we look for something at the intersection of bbq and craft beers? :)21:59
oneswigsuch an unusual combination :-)21:59
b1airocould get adventurous and head to Boulder21:59
rbuddengood Ramen too if anyone else is a fan21:59
ijwoneswig: that one is both a L2 (VLAN) and L3 (GPE) underlay, but it doesn't really alter the approach.  Happy to discuss this more at the summit or PTG, maybe over lunch or beer21:59
b1airobit more than craft beer available there...21:59
jandersmy friend is from Boulder :)21:59
jandersok we're running out of time22:00
jandersI will ask around and report back next week22:00
jandersthanks guys!22:00
oneswigah, thanks everyone, until next time22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  2 22:01:13 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2019/scientific_sig.2019-04-02-21.00.html22:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2019/scientific_sig.2019-04-02-21.00.txt22:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2019/scientific_sig.2019-04-02-21.00.log.html22:01
jandersDenver-Boulder is around 50min one way BTW22:01
martialtrying to schedule Avengers too in this trip :)22:01
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