Wednesday, 2019-11-27

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zhangchi#startmeeting tricircle01:15
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 27 01:15:54 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is zhangchi. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.01:15
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tricircle)"01:15
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tricircle'01:15
zhangchiHello everyone welcome back to tricircle bio-weekly meeting01:16
zhangchiHi Yipei Nice to meet you01:18
zhangchiRight now our development cycle Ussuri begins01:19
zhangchiOur jobs listed bellow:
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zhangchiWelcome everyone can take over interested work items :)01:21
Yipeiwe have a fresh undergraduate student join in our project, he will finish the rest work of new l3 networking model01:22
Yipeihis name is Zhen01:22
Yipeii invited him in our WeChat group just now01:22
zhangchiOh good Welcome Zhen01:23
YipeiWe will help him learn to use irc01:23
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zhangchi#link: Maybe this is useful01:28
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Yipeigot it. thx01:31
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zhangchiYou are welcome :)01:32
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zhangchiTricircle working with container listed So XSM_HUST you can improve and perfect it01:38
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zhangchiI will registered  the bluepints for you later Please tell us you email address later01:46
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Yipeiok, got it01:49
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zhangchiOkay Thanks Yipei we can try our best to have more contributions in Ussuri01:53
zhangchiAny other issues or advices is  welcome for you01:58
zhangchiOur next meeting is December 11th01:59
zhangchiThank you Yipei and XSM_HUST01:59
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Yipeiyou are welcome02:00
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zhangchiThank you  bye02:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"02:01
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 27 02:01:32 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)02:01
openstackMinutes (text):
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ttx#startmeeting large_scale_sig09:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 27 09:00:34 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"09:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'large_scale_sig'09:00
ttx#topic Rollcall09:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Rollcall (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"09:00
Dinesh_BhorHello all09:01
ttxWelcome to the first of what I hope will be a long series of meetings of this SIG!09:01
ttxI'd like to start by doing a quick round of introductions, I'll start09:01
ttxMy name is Thierry Carrez, I manage the engineering team at the OpenStack Foundation09:01
oneswigI'm Stig Telfer, CTO, StackHPC09:01
ttxMy goal here is to facilitate a discussion between OpenStack users09:01
ttxand get them engaged to drive common improvements that will make everyone's life better09:01
etpI'm Erkki Peura, architect for Nokia private cloud09:02
YusukeTatsumi18Hi I'm Yusuke Tatsumi from Yahoo! JAPAN09:02
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jiaopengjuI'am Pengju Jiao from China Mobile09:03
amorinI am Arnaud Morin, working for OVH in the team in charge of deploying and operating the Public Cloud infrastructure (based on openstack of course)09:03
belmoreiraI'm Belmiro. I work at CERN deploying and maintaining our multi cell cloud09:03
masahitoI'm Masahito Muroi, working for LINE as software engineer.09:03
Dinesh_BhorI'm Dinesh Bhor, I am from LINE Corp. I work as an Infrastructure Enginner.09:03
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ttxLooks like we lost Yusuke09:04
YusukeTatsumiI'm re-logined.09:05
ttxAh great!\09:05
ttxI think we heard from everyone09:05
ttx#topic Agree on SIG name09:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Agree on SIG name (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"09:05
ttxWe are currently using "large scale SIG" to describe this group09:05
ttxBefore I formally file the paperwork to create the SIG I'd like to see if that name works09:05
ttxOn one hand it's a bit vague and with a bit of a wide potential scope09:06
ttxOn the other we already started to communicate with that name, so maybe it's simpler to continue09:06
ttxWhat is your opinion on that?09:06
amorinfor me this name is correct09:06
oneswigI'm here for the substance, whatever the name :-)09:06
jiaopengjuagree +109:06
Dinesh_BhorI think lets keep it same as now.09:06
ttxPersonally I'm ok with that name, as long as we set smaller-scope objectives and don't go in every direction09:07
ttxLike if we are clear on what we want to do, the name doesn't matter much09:07
ttx#agreed Keep "large scale SIG" as the group name09:07
ttx#topic Volunteers for SIG chairing09:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Volunteers for SIG chairing (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"09:07
ttxAs I said earlier my goal here is to facilitate this discussion, and I'm happy to help chairing the group at the beginning09:08
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ttxAs I said earlier my goal here is to facilitate this discussion, and I'm happy to help chairing the group at the beginning09:08
ttxBut I'm not running a large scale deployment of openstack myself, so I'll gladly let anyone else interested take over09:08
ttxFor now we'd need at least one person that can take over organizing the meeting when I won't be available09:08
ttxIs there any volunteer?09:08
oneswigWe are at the measuring phase of a large-scale deployment, we don't have any length of operational experience to draw from either.09:09
belmoreiraI can help09:09
amorinwe run large scale but I am not sure I can run the group for now, I'd prefer if someone else can take the lead09:10
ttxbelmoreira: thanks! I'll list you as co-chair. I expect to take the bulk of the chairing work, but it's always good to have two names for continuity09:10
ttx#info Belmiro will co-chair with Thierry for now09:11
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ttxunless there are other volunteers :)09:11
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ttxWe could have three chairs, especially if someone from the APAC timezones can help cover there09:12
ttxand we don;t have to decide today. Two is good for now09:12
jiaopengjuMaybe I can help. We run large scale openstack cluster in public cloud09:12
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ttxjiaopengju: OK, I'll list you as co-chair as well. I like the idea of having geographic distribution for those09:13
ttx#info Pengju Jiao will co-chair with Belmiro and Thierry09:14
ttx#topic Meetings09:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Meetings (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"09:14
ttxNow we need to decide how we should make progress in this SIG09:14
ttxDo we need synchronous meetings like this one?09:14
ttxAnd if yes, how often should we have them? Is IRC fine?09:15
ttxShould we have a permanent IRC channel ?09:15
ttx(like #openstack-large-scale)09:15
belmoreiraI like the idea to have a meeting to sync.09:15
ttxPersonally I feel like we'll need regular meetings, at least at the start, to get it off the ground09:15
oneswigmakes sense to me, but how often - every 2 weeks?09:16
ttxShould we make those weekly for now? Or every two weeks ?09:16
ttxWeekly might just be too often09:16
YusukeTatsumiprefer every 2 weeks09:17
jiaopengjutwo weeks is ok for me :)09:17
amorinwe can start with every 2 weeks09:17
masahitoBi-weekly makes sense to me09:17
ttx#agreed IRC meeting every 2 weeks09:17
belmoreiraevery 2 weeks I think is a good compromise to start with09:17
oneswigttx: should it cover different time zones?  I'm happy with this time but could go up to +12 hours from now too09:18
ttxoneswig: good question. The group is currently only Europe and APAC09:18
ttxwhich is why this time makes the most sense09:18
ttxIf we had people from the US interested, we shoudl probably find a way to rotate09:18
ttxbut it's not the case yet... so maybe a problem for another time?09:19
oneswigTrue.  Meeting every 2 weeks on this time leaves the option of an interleaved meeting at a different time.09:20
ttx(the trick being, there is just no convenient time for China/Japan + western Europe + US east _+US west09:20
ttxIf we keep that day and time every two weeks, does that work for everyone (for now) ?09:20
amorinworks for me09:21
belmoreiragood for me09:21
etpworks for me09:21
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masahitoworks for me09:21
jiaopengjuworks for me09:21
ttxFun fact, I won;t be able to run the meeting two weeks from now at this time, being at a conf09:21
YusukeTatsumigood for me (from APAC/Japan)09:21
ttxDo you think a permanent IRC channel would help?09:22
ttxOr should we push as much comm as possible to the ML ?09:22
belmoreirafor IRC we already have the openstack-operators. I think we shouldn't create a different group ("the large scale operators") but expose everything that we discuss to all operators09:22
masahitoIf not, what's the candidates for IRC channels? the openstack-operators?09:22
ttxI feel like leaving communication traces to the mailing-list is a great way to be transparent and encourage others to join09:23
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ttxWe can definitely use #openstack-operators for one-off discussions09:23
oneswigagreed - the scientific-sig has a separate IRC channel but it is not used09:24
amorinAgree with ML, for the trace and being able to catch back some topics09:24
masahitoActually, I'm not available on IRC at night. ML is good to me as first contact points.09:25
ttxBut I'd rather not force everyone to monitor a IRC channel all the time...09:25
amorinI have no strong opinion on IRC channel. openstack-operators is good for me09:25
ttxmasahito: yes09:25
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masahitoah, I'm living Japan.09:25
jiaopengjuirc channel and ML are all good for me09:26
masahitoFor interactive communication, #openstack-operators sounds good to me.09:26
belmoreiraI agree with ML as the main communication channel. And we can use the openstack-operators for one-off discussions as ttx suggested09:26
ttxOK so let's use the mailing-list as our main means of communication... with prefix [large-scale] or [largescale-sig]09:26
ttxmaybe the latter, so that it's clear it's about the SIG09:27
ttxAlso we'll likely use a lot of etherpads as we draft goals and create documentation09:28
ttxthat is all asynchronous and will work better across all of our timezones09:28
ttxDoes that work?09:28
ttx#agreed Use openstack-discuss with [largescale-sig] for SIG topics. Prefer etherpads and other asynchronous methods of communciation. One-off synchronous discussions in #openstack-operators09:29
ttxok, is there any other logistics questions we need to solve before discussing what we'll actually do?09:30
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ttx#action ttx to propose large scale SIG creation changes to openstack-sigs repository09:31
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ttxI'll take that as a "no"09:32
ttx#topic Discuss initial SIG objectives09:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss initial SIG objectives (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"09:32
ttxSo first of all I think it is important to set reasonable objectives09:32
ttxIn my long experience of such groups in OpenStack history, we always start with a lot of energy09:32
ttxbut then if we set large goals and go in every direction, that initial energy dissipates fast09:33
ttxespecially when real world commitments start to disrupt progress09:33
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ttxIt's a lot better to set a small goal and make steady progress toward it09:34
ttxrather than set a large goal and abandon it because nobody has enough time09:34
ttxBut the group should definitely end up producing *something*09:35
ttxotherwise without a focal point the energy also dissipates fast :)09:35
ttxWe had several ideas raised in the discussion we had in Shanghai09:35
ttxNotes at:09:36
ttxamorin mentioned wanting to create or modify existing doc for sensible larger-scale config defaults09:36
ttxmasahito has work within Oslo to instrument bottlenecks09:37
belmoreirathe ML thread also adds some high level information09:37
ttxdoes anyone want to propose a topic for the group to initially focus on?09:37
oneswiginstrumentation is my primary focus at present.09:38
amorinwhat do you mean by instrumentation?09:38
YusukeTatsumiwhat is "large scale" definition? I think about 1k compute-node on one cluster.09:39
belmoreiraHow about to gather the existing information how operators are managing large deployments. During the summits we have a lot of presentations that discuss several aspects: cells, rabbit, ...09:39
oneswigamorin: I'm thinking of how do I detect the bottlenecks as the system grows09:39
ttxYusukeTatsumi: yes one issue was the difference between scale within one cluster (which was my original focus) and more generally large size deployments (lots of clusters)09:40
ttxPersonally ai think if we focus on scaling within one cluster, it's already a large enough scope09:40
belmoreirasignal relevant presentations in a document and maybe create a summary would help to avoid rethink a solution that maybe was solved by someone but didn't get a lot of exposure09:40
ttxand would raise very interesting questions09:40
amorinbelmoreira: agree with that, and I think we can share good practices on config params within this topic09:40
amorin^ was about how operators are managing large scale09:41
ttxMaybe that's two different axis we can work on. (1) Scaling within one cluster, and instrumentation of the bottlenecks there09:41
ttx(2) Document large scale configuration and tips &tricks09:42
masahitoThat makes sense.09:43
jiaopengjuI think we should give all the users confidence in large clusters, so at first we should tell them how large about the clusters that running in product, and then show them how to do this09:43
masahitoMy work ttx mentioned above is related to (1) with the direction.09:43
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ttxA reasonable goal for (1) would be to identify the most obvious bottlenecks and start implementing instrumentation to actually be able to measure it09:44
ttxReasonable goal for (2) is to produce some documentation09:44
ttxI count masahito, oneswig interested in (1), amorin, belmoreira in (2)09:45
YusukeTatsumiI can join to (1)09:45
belmoreirahonestly I think we shouldn't limit ourselves explicitly to one cell. Different workloads, use cases may require small but multiple cells. I would prefer to consider the architecture choice/botlenecks in terms of use case09:46
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oneswigbelmoreira: it's more one deployment than one cell isn't it?09:46
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ttxbelmoreira: I agree we should not limit the scope of the SIG to one cell. But raising scaling limits within a single cell/cluster is useful for everyone imho09:47
ttxso it can be one of the SIG's lines of work09:47
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belmoreirattx of course I agree with that09:48
belmoreiraoneswig yes, deployment considering the use-case09:48
ttxThere will always be a point where you have to do multiple cells and clusters... and I agree we should also discuss that within this SIG09:48
etpthere is also growth point of view, yep09:49
ttxPersonally I can help both subgroups with their logistics and interactions with openstack project teams09:49
ttxLike to set up a repo and jobs to publish docs to a website etc09:50
ttxor grease the wheels with Oslo reviews etc09:50
belmoreirattx that's great09:50
ttxOK, so in terms of immediate actions, and to make progress between now and next meeting... maybe we can start two threads on the ML, one of each subject, to further refine plans09:51
ttxGoal generally being to have a more detailed plan to discuss at next meeting for both areas09:52
ttxOr should we brainstorm on etherpads first before dropping it on the ML?09:53
oneswigI recall there was an interesting discussion in Shanghai about prometheus endpoints being exposed by OpenStack services.  I haven't seen any follow-up go by on that but it would be one interesting place to start.09:54
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ttxOne issue of discussing very early steps on the ML (compared to doing it on an etherpad) is that you'll get people outside the SIG starting to shoot down crazy ideas09:55
oneswigI think it was in the context of a billing forum09:55
ttxand therefore that limits the discussion09:55
ttxWhat's your preference to further refine those two topics?09:55
belmoreirattx yes :) the etherpad may be better to start the discussion09:55
amorinI trust your experience, etherpad is good09:56
ttxok, so I'll post a summary of this meeting, and create two etherpads to refine those two topics09:56
ttx#topic Next meeting09:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Next meeting (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"09:57
ttx#action ttx to send meeting summary and create two etherpads to further refine the two initial goals09:57
ttxSo as I said earlier, I won;t be around at that time in two weeks09:57
ttxalso some of us will have the end-of-year holidays after that09:58
ttxSo I'm wondering if we should not set the next meeting to Dec 1809:58
amorindecember 11 I am not available neither09:58
ttxand then January 809:58
oneswigeither date works for me09:58
ttxthen we can go back to every 2 week09:59
amorindec 18 works for me09:59
etpboth work for me09:59
jiaopengjudec 18 is fine09:59
oneswighave to go - thanks ttx & all - see you next time09:59
masahito18 dec works for me09:59
ttxAlright! Thanks everyone for attending09:59
YusukeTatsumiether days works09:59
belmoreiraI will not be available in the 1809:59
belmoreirai would propose to work in the scope and then we meet next year10:00
ttxbelmoreira: will you be available to sync with amorin ahead of the meeting on Dec 18?10:01
ttxIt's ok to miss a meeting10:01
belmoreiraI will be off all week10:01
ttxOK, let's continue that discussion on the ML, and free up people10:02
ttx#info Next meeting date to be confirmed10:02
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"10:02
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 27 10:02:29 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)10:02
openstackMinutes (text):
ttxThanks again everyone for attending10:02
masahitothank! bye10:02
etptnx ttx & all10:03
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liuyulongsorry, I'm late. Just run off a local 3 hours emergency meeting with no laptop...14:21
liuyulong#startmeeting neutron_l314:21
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 27 14:21:51 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is liuyulong. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:21
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)"14:21
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_l3'14:21
liuyulong#topic Announcements14:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)"14:22
liuyulongWe have merged the OVN Convergence spec.14:23
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liuyulongAnd we also have some ovn patches are getting to the review list.14:23
liuyulongSo I'd like to add a new topic in the L3 meeting, for OVN L3 functionality.14:24
liuyulongI will send this to the mail list to see the opinions from others.14:25
liuyulongOK, let's move on.14:26
liuyulong#topic Bugs14:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)"14:26
openstackLaunchpad bug 1853637 in neutron "Assign floating IP to port owned by another tenant is not override-able with RBAC policy" [Medium,New]14:27
liuyulongThis should be fixed IMO, I will take this.14:28
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haleybliuyulong: hi, sorry figured you had canceled14:28
liuyulongIt will be required for some hierarchical operators role.14:29
bcafarelliuyulong: slaweq will not be around for the meeting, he will catch up on logs later14:29
liuyulongNext one:14:31
liuyulong#link Hierarchical14:31
openstackRemoving item from minutes: #link Hierarchical14:31
openstackLaunchpad bug 1853613 in neutron "VMs don't get ip from dhcp after compute restart" [Undecided,New]14:31
liuyulonghaleyb, hi14:32
liuyulonghaleyb, a long local meeting just blocked me.14:32
liuyulongFor this DHCP bug, we have noticed same issue.14:33
liuyulongIf a compute node was down, and up again.14:33
liuyulongSome VM will not get (dhcp) the address, due to the flow re-install slow progress.14:34
haleyband this is the iptables_hybrid driver it looks like14:34
liuyulongThe dhcp client inside the VM will try to request 3-5 times, and all get failed, then just VM just start without IP address.14:35
liuyulongWe have one solution is make the NIC config a static setting inside the VM during the first start (booting) procedure.14:36
liuyulongAnd another solution is to start 10-20 VMs each time, yes as a trunk, until all get finished.14:38
haleybhe claimed this started after - the fix we did for ovs agent restarts14:39
liuyulongLocal flow based-DHCP mechanism can not work, since physical host restart will lose all the flow, it needs to be re-install or sync data from neutron-server.14:39
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liuyulongI noticed that, but I'm not sure if it is really related.14:42
liuyulongLet's investigate this and try to reproduce it.14:46
haleybi guess in generic terms it's a race condition when rebooting a compute node14:47
liuyulongNo more L3 bugs from bug deputy.14:47
liuyulongAnd after a quick scan of LP bug list, also no L3 bugs.14:48
liuyulong#topic On demand agenda14:49
*** openstack changes topic to "On demand agenda (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)"14:49
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haleybi don't have any items14:51
liuyulonghaleyb, should we add a section in this meeting for OVN L3 functionality?14:52
haleybliuyulong: sure, on the gaps?14:53
liuyulong_Not only gaps, but also some bugs, features or anything else need to be mentioned or discussed for the team.14:55
liuyulong_Mainly for L3, since OVN has almost full functionalities of networking. We cannot cover them all. : )14:57
liuyulongOK, then, let's end here, we only have one hour time slot.14:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:58
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 27 14:58:22 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:58
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