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| mlavalle | o/ | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| slaweq | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Feb 28 14:01:12 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is slaweq. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 14:01 |
| slaweq | hi | 14:01 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:01 |
| haleyb | o/ | 14:01 |
| slaweq | sorry for being late | 14:01 |
| slaweq | ok, we already have quorum but lets wait few more minutes for amotoki and yamamoto | 14:01 |
| njohnston | I believe yamamoto said he couldn't make it | 14:02 |
| ralonsoh | ji | 14:02 |
| ralonsoh | hi | 14:02 |
| mlavalle | we won't attend | 14:02 |
| mlavalle | he^^^ | 14:02 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:02 |
| slaweq | ok, right | 14:02 |
| slaweq | so we can start | 14:02 |
| slaweq | #topic RFEs | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:03 | |
| slaweq | we have 2 RFEs for today | 14:03 |
| slaweq | first one is continuation from last week | 14:03 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1861529 | 14:03 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1861529 in neutron "[RFE] A port's network should be changable" [Wishlist,New] | 14:03 |
| slaweq | last week I proposed 2 possible ways to go with this: | 14:04 |
| slaweq | 1. we will continue discussion about that in review of spec where more details will be shared with us, | 14:04 |
| slaweq | 2. we don't accept this RFE | 14:04 |
| slaweq | so I would like to ask You which option of those 2 You would vote for | 14:05 |
| slaweq | or maybe there is some 3rd possible option? | 14:05 |
| njohnston | link to the previous conversation: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-02-21-14.00.log.html#l-119 | 14:05 |
| slaweq | thx njohnston | 14:05 |
| njohnston | I'll restate my previous opinion: I would vote for 2 unless we have a very clear user story that means this will have a real benefit for today's cloud customer, with modern guest OSes that notice PCI plug/unplug events | 14:06 |
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| njohnston | stephen-ma gave MS-DOS as an example of a guest OS that would need this feature, for example | 14:07 |
| slaweq | njohnston: I would also be for option 2) as I said last week | 14:07 |
| amotoki | I am leaning to option 2 to deny it. per discussion on the background last week, it is to support older OSes before PCI hot plug era. | 14:07 |
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| slaweq | yes, and I don't think that making many complicated changes in the code is worth to do only to support e.g MS-DOS and other older systems | 14:08 |
| njohnston | I am open to being persuaded otherwise but I think we have to focus ourselves on serving code that has been created since the turn of the century or so | 14:08 |
| slaweq | mlavalle: haleyb: any thoughts? | 14:09 |
| amotoki | Even if we allow to change network for a port if it has no L3 address, what happens for applications on such OS like MS-DOS? Do such apps take into account a case where IP address is not assigned? | 14:10 |
| haleyb | I would go with option 2 for the same reasons, i don't think the use case has been fully explained, and unplug/plug works for most today | 14:10 |
| mlavalle | 2 unless we have a convincingly explained use case | 14:10 |
| slaweq | thx | 14:11 |
| slaweq | I think we all agreed here | 14:11 |
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| mlavalle | I was looking for a spec in Gerrit | 14:11 |
| mlavalle | and didn't find any | 14:11 |
| stephen-ma | The user will need to use the VM's console to have the new IP take effect. I | 14:11 |
| slaweq | I will update RFE after the meeting | 14:11 |
| stephen-ma | The user needs to set a new fixed-ip after changing the network. | 14:11 |
| amotoki | stephen-ma: welcome :) | 14:12 |
| slaweq | stephen-ma: hi, so do You have user story for that, as njohnston asked? | 14:13 |
| amotoki | stephen-ma: but releasing IP address means the service is stopped during a VM has no IP. What is the difference from a case where you deploy a new instance for a new network. | 14:13 |
| amotoki | ? | 14:13 |
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| slaweq | stephen-ma: or e.g. stop vm, unplug port, plug new port and start vm again | 14:13 |
| amotoki | The only difference is that you can continue to use a SAME server instance. If this is the only difference, the RFE doesn't convince me. | 14:14 |
| stephen-ma | The VM's is owned by a customer with a Cloud service provider. The cloud service provider cannot shut doen the customer VM. | 14:15 |
| slaweq | still this use case don't convince me to approve this rfe as it would mean changes in our basic concepts which we have in neutron for years | 14:16 |
| amotoki | it is a balance among users and consumers in various level. there is no reason that a cloud provider needs to consider all cases. | 14:16 |
| slaweq | and probably it will not be trivial change | 14:16 |
| stephen-ma | yes it will end up being a big change. | 14:17 |
| slaweq | stephen-ma: exactly :/ | 14:17 |
| slaweq | so I'm still voting for not approving this rfe | 14:18 |
| slaweq | and I think we all agreed on that, right? | 14:18 |
| ralonsoh | slaweq, I agree too in not approving it | 14:18 |
| mlavalle | yes | 14:18 |
| njohnston | yes | 14:18 |
| amotoki | slaweq: yes | 14:18 |
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| slaweq | haleyb: You're also still for not approving it, right? | 14:19 |
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| haleyb | slaweq: yes, -1 | 14:20 |
| slaweq | thx all | 14:20 |
| slaweq | I will write a comment in this rfe | 14:20 |
| amotoki | stephen-ma: we are not rejecting you. if you need to explain the situation we can help. | 14:20 |
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| stephen-ma | @slaweq can this RFE be rediscussed if there are new use cases? | 14:20 |
| slaweq | stephen-ma: ofcourse | 14:20 |
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| amotoki | stephen-ma: yes, the motivations and backgrounds are important | 14:21 |
| slaweq | feel free to update it if You will have any "more modern" use cases for that | 14:21 |
| mlavalle | if more information about the use case / s surfaces, why don't we start with a spec? | 14:21 |
| stephen-ma | good idea. | 14:21 |
| slaweq | mlavalle: it can be given in spec also | 14:21 |
| slaweq | both would work for me | 14:21 |
| njohnston | agreed | 14:22 |
| slaweq | ok, lets move on to the next one now | 14:22 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1858610 | 14:22 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1858610 in neutron "[RFE] Qos policy not supporting sharing bandwidth between several nics of the same vm." [Undecided,New] | 14:22 |
| slaweq | JieLi: hi, it's Your RFE, right? | 14:22 |
| JieLi | yes | 14:23 |
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| njohnston | Interesting idea. I would think that we'd only want to aggregate bandwidth for nics that are on the same network, right? In other words if a VM has a port on an administrative network and a port on an application network, they shouldn't share bandwidth limitations. | 14:25 |
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| ralonsoh | JieLi, can you explain a bit the backend implementation? | 14:25 |
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| ralonsoh | njohnston, not only the same network but also you need to consider if you want to limit this only to bound ports to the same VM or host | 14:26 |
| ralonsoh | but this is server logic, how to decide to share the BW | 14:27 |
| JieLi | njohnston we want to limit the total bandwidth of vm, for restricting system resource usage. | 14:27 |
| ralonsoh | my concern is how this is going to be implemented in any backend | 14:27 |
| slaweq | yes, backend implementation is very interesting thing in this case as limiting bw isn't trivial thing :) | 14:28 |
| amotoki | ralonsoh's point is really good and important to me too. | 14:28 |
| njohnston | in reality. confining bandwidth to a collection of ports could have many uses, not necessarily restricting just to a single host. For example if you have 5 app servers you could use such a shared policy to say "Don't exceed X bandwidth for these 5 ports" and limit the whole app server farm together, | 14:28 |
| JieLi | ralonsoh currently, we'd like to use linux tc stack to redirect nic's traffic to an ifb interface, and limit the bandwidth on the ifb interface | 14:29 |
| slaweq | njohnston: but that would be far more complicated as such ports could be on different hosts :) | 14:29 |
| ralonsoh | JieLi, so this is limited, for now, to LB backend | 14:29 |
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| ralonsoh | and another question: direction?? ingress? egress? both? | 14:30 |
| JieLi | ralonsoh you mean loadbalancer? | 14:30 |
| ralonsoh | JieLi, ? | 14:30 |
| ralonsoh | no no Linux Bridge | 14:30 |
| ralonsoh | there are 4 backends in the neutron repo | 14:30 |
| JieLi | direction: both | 14:30 |
| ralonsoh | sriov, LB, ovs and OVN | 14:30 |
| ralonsoh | ok | 14:31 |
| JieLi | backends: we want to support ovs and LB | 14:31 |
| ralonsoh | with an IFB block? | 14:31 |
| ralonsoh | that means you need to setup an hybrid deployment | 14:32 |
| ralonsoh | implications: no DPDK support, maybe no HW offload support | 14:32 |
| JieLi | yes, no DPDK support, maybe no HW offload support | 14:32 |
| ralonsoh | and the OVS firewall could be affected | 14:33 |
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| ralonsoh | because you are redirecting all those ports to a unique IFB | 14:33 |
| mlavalle | is there a non IFB alternative? | 14:33 |
| * mlavalle will have to leave 15 minutes before the hour | 14:34 | |
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| ralonsoh | so far in OVS we don't have something like this, a shared qos policy | 14:34 |
| JieLi | traffic will be send back to tapXXX interface from ifb after netwroking shaping, firewall need to be tested, i can't be sure now | 14:34 |
| ralonsoh | so there is no native support | 14:34 |
| njohnston | what kind of a performance impact would such an architecture have? | 14:34 |
| JieLi | @mla | 14:35 |
| ralonsoh | let me be frank: the OVS present too many possible incompatibilities | 14:36 |
| JieLi | mlavalle,at present, we have no non IFB alternative | 14:36 |
| ralonsoh | and the architecture could be quite complex | 14:36 |
| mlavalle | I say let's do a PoC | 14:36 |
| ralonsoh | perfect for me | 14:36 |
| mlavalle | and explore the idea | 14:36 |
| ralonsoh | (btw, trunk plugin could help on this, just an idea) | 14:37 |
| slaweq | IMO idea of this is interesting but there is many things to clarify so maybe PoC and spec would be needed first | 14:37 |
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| slaweq | but as for rfe I tend to approve it | 14:38 |
| ralonsoh | +1 | 14:38 |
| mlavalle | +1 | 14:39 |
| haleyb | +1 | 14:39 |
| amotoki | when we visit the possibility of the proposed idea after approving it? | 14:39 |
| amotoki | I tend to +1 but it hits me | 14:39 |
| njohnston | yes I would like to see what the PoC results are | 14:40 |
| slaweq | amotoki: I was thinking to work out all possibilities during spec review | 14:40 |
| slaweq | and maybe PoC too | 14:40 |
| amotoki | sounds good | 14:40 |
| njohnston | +1 | 14:40 |
| slaweq | with QoS we already have situation that not all backends supports every rule types | 14:40 |
| slaweq | so this one can also be supported only by some backends, not all of them | 14:41 |
| ralonsoh | exactly | 14:41 |
| amotoki | it is interesting enoguh and it is worth exploring impls. | 14:41 |
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| slaweq | to sum up: we all agreed to approve RFE as the idea and continue exploring details of it in spec and poc patches | 14:42 |
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| slaweq | JieLi: is it fine for You? | 14:42 |
| JieLi | yes | 14:43 |
| slaweq | ok | 14:43 |
| slaweq | thx for proposing it | 14:43 |
| slaweq | we are done with RFEs for today | 14:43 |
| slaweq | #topic On demand agenda | 14:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "On demand agenda (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:44 | |
| slaweq | I have one more topic from ralonsoh | 14:44 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1863423. The service plugin network_segment_ranges has some implementation issues: users can create networks outside the project segment ranges and those segmentation IDs can belong to other project segment ranges. | 14:44 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1863423 in neutron "Method "build_segment_queries_for_tenant_and_shared_ranges" returning empty query" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Rodolfo Alonso (rodolfo-alonso-hernandez) | 14:44 |
| slaweq | It's described in details in http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012736.html | 14:44 |
| ralonsoh | oh yes | 14:44 |
| ralonsoh | one sec | 14:44 |
| ralonsoh | #link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/710090/ | 14:44 |
| * mlavalle leaves now, see you next week | 14:44 | |
| slaweq | but maybe we can use this couple of minutes to discuss it here | 14:44 |
| ralonsoh | discussed in the ML | 14:44 |
| *** mlavalle has left #openstack-meeting | 14:44 | |
| slaweq | mlavalle: see You | 14:44 |
| ralonsoh | this is the possible architecture solution | 14:44 |
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| ralonsoh | as commented in the mail | 14:44 |
| ralonsoh | 1) a user (in a project) has network segment ranges | 14:45 |
| ralonsoh | --> will retrieve the seg_id from those ranges first | 14:45 |
| ralonsoh | and then from the shared one | 14:45 |
| ralonsoh | never from other project ranges | 14:45 |
| ralonsoh | 2) if the project does not have ranges, directly from the shared pool | 14:45 |
| ralonsoh | that's all | 14:46 |
| slaweq | I replied to Your email some time ago | 14:46 |
| slaweq | IMHO 2) would be better to backport to stable branches | 14:46 |
| ralonsoh | yes, that's why I implemented this solution | 14:46 |
| slaweq | as API behaviour wouldn't change too much | 14:46 |
| ralonsoh | no, no API change | 14:47 |
| ralonsoh | just fix the queries | 14:47 |
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| ralonsoh | (and a couple of extra things) | 14:47 |
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| ralonsoh | (for reviewers: the core of the patch is here https://review.opendev.org/#/c/710090/4/neutron/objects/network_segment_range.py) | 14:49 |
| slaweq | ralonsoh: sure, I will review it ASAP | 14:50 |
| ralonsoh | thanks! | 14:50 |
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| amotoki | is still reading the thread | 14:53 |
| amotoki | 1 and 2 above here look exclusive so I am a bit confused. | 14:54 |
| ralonsoh | no sorry, not the same | 14:54 |
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| ralonsoh | in the ML 1) and 2) are different options | 14:54 |
| amotoki | ralonsoh: I don't mean 1 and 2 in your email | 14:54 |
| ralonsoh | here 1) and 2) are just possible situations | 14:55 |
| amotoki | ralonsoh: I see | 14:55 |
| ralonsoh | in the patch, I implemented option (2) of the mail | 14:55 |
| amotoki | atm option 2 of the mail sounds good to me (but I am still trying to understand the situation more) | 14:57 |
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| slaweq | ok, we are almost out of the time, amotoki please reply to the email if You will have anything to add regarding this topic | 14:58 |
| ralonsoh | amotoki, sure, ping me via IRC or mail if you have questions | 14:58 |
| slaweq | and also others :) | 14:58 |
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| amotoki | slaweq: ralonsoh: sure | 14:58 |
| slaweq | thx for attending the meeting | 14:58 |
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| slaweq | and have a great weekend | 14:58 |
| ralonsoh | bye! | 14:58 |
| slaweq | o/ | 14:58 |
| amotoki | o/ | 14:58 |
| slaweq | #endmeeting | 14:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 14:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Feb 28 14:58:39 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-02-28-14.01.html | 14:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-02-28-14.01.txt | 14:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-02-28-14.01.log.html | 14:58 |
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