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| ricolin | #startmeeting automation | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 3 14:00:15 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ricolin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: automation)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'automation' | 14:00 |
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| ricolin | for information | 14:03 |
| ricolin | We already got some nice work going on with auto-scaling CI env | 14:03 |
| ricolin | https://review.opendev.org/#/q/status:open+branch:master+topic:autoscaling-with-monasca | 14:03 |
| ricolin | currently heat+monasca | 14:03 |
| ricolin | should do the some for heat+telemetry as well if time allows | 14:04 |
| ricolin | Hope we can get autoscaling cross project gate accepted in heat and monasca before end of this cycle | 14:05 |
| ricolin | nothing going on for self-healing I believe | 14:05 |
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| ricolin | that's all for update from my side | 14:06 |
| ricolin | #endmeeting | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 14:06 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 3 14:06:29 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:06 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/automation/2020/automation.2020-03-03-14.00.html | 14:06 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/automation/2020/automation.2020-03-03-14.00.txt | 14:06 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/automation/2020/automation.2020-03-03-14.00.log.html | 14:06 |
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| witek | hello | 14:07 |
| ricolin | witek, :) | 14:08 |
| witek | how are you doing? | 14:08 |
| ricolin | My schedule is all mess up due to COVID-19 | 14:09 |
| ricolin | which including my honeymoon:( | 14:09 |
| ricolin | besides that everything is doing great:) | 14:09 |
| * ricolin still working on reschedule part of the honeymoon so it might still happening | 14:10 | |
| witek | taking into account the circumstances, honeymoon will be more fun later... | 14:10 |
| ricolin | witek, agree | 14:10 |
| ricolin | How's everything there | 14:11 |
| witek | the number of cases in Germany increases but it's not comparable to China | 14:11 |
| witek | we've got 170 cases currently | 14:11 |
| witek | in Europe Italy is most affected | 14:12 |
| ricolin | hope everything under control now? | 14:12 |
| witek | yes, seems so | 14:13 |
| ricolin | and hope no new cases in Munich | 14:13 |
| witek | I guess 3 new cases since last week | 14:13 |
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| ricolin | If that number can stay for two weeks will be more solid I think | 14:14 |
| witek | yeah | 14:15 |
| ricolin | Taiwan got few cases grow since this two weeks, it's now 41 cases totally | 14:15 |
| ricolin | and all seems under control | 14:15 |
| witek | is your everyday life somehow affected, like closed shops or restaurants? | 14:16 |
| ricolin | Not really, people mostly wearing mask when in public but not open space, so things going just fine. | 14:18 |
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| witek | fingers crossed | 14:18 |
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| ricolin | I guess that's some lesson we learn when SARS happened | 14:18 |
| ricolin | BTW regarding the auto-scaling CI, I will take another deep look to make sure the test is reasonable to use, but generally I think it's ready for heat and monasca to cross gating with it | 14:21 |
| ricolin | https://review.opendev.org/#/c/709278/ | 14:21 |
| witek | thanks, haven't seen that one | 14:22 |
| witek | when will this job be triggered? | 14:23 |
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| witek | do you intend to run it additionally to the job in Heat repo? | 14:24 |
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| ricolin | witek, yeah, I think so | 14:30 |
| ricolin | since the test env are all different, | 14:30 |
| witek | nice, we can then add this job to our checks | 14:31 |
| witek | in Monasca | 14:31 |
| ricolin | If we have good confident with the job, we can put it in check | 14:31 |
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| ricolin | witek, let me find some time tomorrow to collect feedback from other heat members | 14:33 |
| witek | +! | 14:33 |
| witek | +1 | 14:33 |
| ricolin | If everything goes well, we can start adopt that job for both team | 14:33 |
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| ricolin | #startmeeting multi_arch | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 3 15:01:10 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ricolin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: multi_arch)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'multi_arch' | 15:01 |
| ricolin | #topic roll call | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: multi_arch)" | 15:01 | |
| ricolin | o/ | 15:01 |
| * ricolin knows that jeremyfreudberg will not join this time | 15:02 | |
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| ricolin | We already make some productive discussion earlier today, so feel free to take a look | 15:05 |
| ricolin | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/multi_arch/ | 15:05 |
| ricolin | :) | 15:06 |
| ricolin | #endmeeting | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:06 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 3 15:06:31 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:06 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/multi_arch/2020/multi_arch.2020-03-03-15.01.html | 15:06 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/multi_arch/2020/multi_arch.2020-03-03-15.01.txt | 15:06 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/multi_arch/2020/multi_arch.2020-03-03-15.01.log.html | 15:06 |
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| clarkb | anyone else here for the infra meeting? | 19:00 |
| clarkb | we shall get started momentarily | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| clarkb | #startmeeting | 19:02 |
| openstack | clarkb: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 19:02 |
| clarkb | bah | 19:02 |
| clarkb | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 3 19:02:09 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is clarkb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| clarkb | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2020-March/006605.html Our Agenda | 19:02 |
| clarkb | #topic Announcements | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| clarkb | fungi is largely afk this week as are ttx. They have meeting topics that we'll probably go through quickly as a result | 19:03 |
| clarkb | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| clarkb | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2020/infra.2020-02-25-19.01.txt minutes from last meeting | 19:03 |
| clarkb | We have one action from the last meeting. ttx was to write an xwiki spec. This happend and we'll talk about it in the next section of the meeting | 19:04 |
| clarkb | #topic Specs | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| clarkb | we'll start with the xwiki spec. | 19:04 |
| clarkb | #link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/710057/ xwiki for wikis | 19:04 |
| clarkb | This hasn't gotten any reviews yet, but there was good discussion on IRC (in the meeting and out) last week. If you've got thoughts on this your reviews are much appreciated | 19:05 |
| clarkb | frickler and corvus in particular seemed to have some good initial thoughts | 19:05 |
| clarkb | Next is the cleanup of python tooling on our CI images. | 19:05 |
| clarkb | #link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/709579/ Cleaning up python dev tools on our CI images. | 19:05 |
| clarkb | infra-root I think this one is ready to go up for approval | 19:05 |
| clarkb | is there any objection to that? many of you have already reviewd it. Looks like we are missing fungi though. | 19:06 |
| * diablo_rojo sneaks into the back of the room | 19:06 | |
| clarkb | maybe hold off until fungi can ack or nack? | 19:06 |
| clarkb | or do you think we have had sufficient input? ianw mordred you've both been involved in this one so your thoughts on it would be great | 19:06 |
| clarkb | (as far as proceeding, I Think you've both acked the review) | 19:07 |
| clarkb | hrm we may not have quorum here today (yet). I'll wait a couple more minutes to see if others are able to drop in | 19:08 |
| ianw | personally it's probably sufficient, as we can stage it in without affecting prodcution | 19:08 |
| clarkb | ianw: thats a good point. | 19:09 |
| corvus | i'm here, just quiet | 19:09 |
| fungi | yeah, sorry, i can try to take a look in a bit | 19:09 |
| clarkb | ok why don't we say end of clarkb business thursday? that should give fungi time to fit review into travel schedule | 19:09 |
| clarkb | I'm reluctant to prolong this as we just had another virtualenv issue this week | 19:10 |
| clarkb | I think making progress on this spec will be a g ood thing for the transition from python2 to python3 as that happens around us | 19:10 |
| clarkb | Next up is the website acitivty sites spec | 19:11 |
| clarkb | #link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/709236/ Website activity stats | 19:11 |
| clarkb | fungi: I think proper reivew on this one from you would be great. But its also less urgent imo | 19:11 |
| fungi | i'm probably mostly okay with both of those since they were written as an upshot of discussions i was involved in, but i'll check to make sure they reflect what i remember | 19:11 |
| clarkb | fungi: ok, if you manage to review this one by EOD thurday I'll approve it too if there aer no new concerns, but if not I think we can pick it up next week | 19:12 |
| clarkb | Thank you to everyone that has reviewed the specs | 19:12 |
| clarkb | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
| clarkb | #topic OpenDev | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenDev (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
| clarkb | There was some excitement around opendev governance recently. The initial change I pushed to openstack/governance merged, but then was reverted | 19:13 |
| clarkb | mnaser has pushed a new change for that and is trying to solicit more feedback | 19:13 |
| clarkb | #link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/710020/ Split OpenDev out of OpenStack governance. | 19:13 |
| clarkb | it seems that there is new concern over what opendev would be post split and one of the suggestions is that it could be a pilot project under the OSF | 19:14 |
| clarkb | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2020-March/006603.html OpenDev as OSF pilot project | 19:14 |
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| fungi | i'm still not convinced that's necessary, but willing to entertain if it makes some stakeholders more comfortable | 19:15 |
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| clarkb | jbryce wrote ^ to start that conversation. I'm not opposed initially, but have asked for more information on what would be required of us to make that happen as well as how we see the pilot project criteria applying to opendev | 19:15 |
| clarkb | If you've got thoughts on that I'm happy to hear them either directly or on the mailing list. Will do my best to stay on top of that input | 19:15 |
| corvus | i also don't object but | 19:16 |
| corvus | i also am not sure we need to block on that | 19:16 |
| corvus | i don't think we're being as successful as we would like to be in growing the opendev community apart from openstack-infra | 19:17 |
| corvus | and i think further delay is not going to help that | 19:17 |
| clarkb | corvus: I agree. Personally I thought what we had was sufficient with the understanding that we are making incremental changes | 19:17 |
| clarkb | but I'm also not sure we can assert that more strongly that we have without using the "fork" work | 19:17 |
| corvus | so it would be nice if we could make progress before everyone burns out on the idea | 19:17 |
| clarkb | *word | 19:17 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:17 |
| clarkb | corvus: I think that is good feedback for mnaser and the rest of the TC | 19:18 |
| clarkb | I'll try to pass it along | 19:18 |
| corvus | 2 years is a long time :) | 19:19 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:19 |
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| mordred | (sorry - was letting myself be distracted by mailing list threads) | 19:19 |
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| clarkb | corvus: maybe you can send a short response to jbryce? Then I can make sure the TC is trackign that thread? | 19:20 |
| clarkb | If not I can try to summarize your thoughts and send it instead | 19:20 |
| mordred | I agree with the above re: don't object and also don't need to block | 19:20 |
| corvus | clarkb: sure i'll reply | 19:21 |
| clarkb | thank you | 19:21 |
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| clarkb | On the operational side of things we have master builds of gitea working now | 19:22 |
| mordred | I started looking yesterday evening at the template diffs | 19:22 |
| mordred | but then EODd | 19:22 |
| clarkb | we need to check for template changes and probably don't want to deploy "master" because templates and other things can change under us. But if we wanted to we could likely deploy gitea with the commit cache in the near future | 19:22 |
| mordred | might allow us to provide feedback to lunny | 19:23 |
| clarkb | mordred: one thing I wondered about is how difficult it would be to deploy a specific gitea backend with a different docker image | 19:24 |
| clarkb | mordred: I think that would require us to use a different docker compose config file template but should be doable. | 19:24 |
| clarkb | then we could monitor memory use and measure performance improvement/impact | 19:24 |
| mordred | clarkb: I mean - we could put in an ansible variable with an image tag | 19:24 |
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| mordred | and then set different host_var overrides | 19:25 |
| mordred | so I thnik it would be pretty easy | 19:25 |
| clarkb | ah ya | 19:25 |
| clarkb | maybe doing that real soon now is worthwhile with a single backend | 19:25 |
| clarkb | and if there are problems we can remove it from the haproxy config | 19:25 |
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| mordred | yeah. we might want to put in a sha pin to the override-checkout and add a different tag name on the output image | 19:26 |
| mordred | so that we could bump the sha we're working with later | 19:26 |
| clarkb | my biggest concern is the gitea team does seem to curate releases for when they think the software is ready. They also put together pretty comprehensive release notes. W'd lack that in this case | 19:26 |
| mordred | yeah | 19:26 |
| clarkb | Ok we can discuss further outside the meeting. Lets move on | 19:27 |
| clarkb | #topic Update Configuration Management | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update Configuration Management (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:27 | |
| clarkb | mordred: are there updates on gerrit images? Possibly related to jeepyb and bazel and stuff | 19:28 |
| mordred | well - it all broke again | 19:28 |
| mordred | but this: https://review.opendev.org/#/c/711072/ should fix the builds | 19:29 |
| mordred | other than that - next up on gerrit is manage-projects | 19:29 |
| mordred | turns out I missed that when doing review-dev - so solving it is the next task | 19:30 |
| mordred | I think we should split manage-projects from the service stuff so we can retire remote-puppet-git and instead just have a playbook that applies project-config changes to all the places | 19:30 |
| mordred | but I'm not all the way to having a stepwise plan for doing any of that in a sane way | 19:31 |
| clarkb | remote-puppet-git? | 19:31 |
| mordred | yeah - that's the playbook that currently runs things on review | 19:31 |
| clarkb | oh right | 19:32 |
| mordred | that's spread across gerrit and gitea and does the gitea service stuff as well | 19:32 |
| corvus | mordred: so we'd pull the project-management stuff out of puppet? | 19:32 |
| clarkb | refactoring the puppet and ansible to be just cleaner ansible | 19:32 |
| mordred | corvus: more that I think we shoudlnt' copy the structure in the ansible replacement | 19:33 |
| corvus | ah ok | 19:33 |
| mordred | and I *think* it might be easier to do that as part of adding manage-projects support | 19:33 |
| mordred | to the review-dev ansible | 19:33 |
| corvus | mordred: other than run manage-projects, what else is involved? | 19:34 |
| mordred | we clone project-config, then we copy of a bunch of files around to different places | 19:34 |
| corvus | for gerrit? what files? | 19:34 |
| corvus | the acls? | 19:35 |
| mordred | projects.yaml, projects.ini, acls dir | 19:35 |
| mordred | it's also possible it's easier than my brain is making it right now | 19:35 |
| mordred | but the puppet-project-config indirection is ... challenging to follow | 19:35 |
| corvus | mordred: well, i agree with "the review playbook should run manage projects" which seems the overall goal | 19:36 |
| corvus | hrm, it has to interact with gitea though, right? | 19:37 |
| mordred | well -I'm not actually convinced in the fullness of time that that should be the goal. I think having a service-review and a service-prjojects playbook might serve us better | 19:37 |
| mordred | yeah | 19:37 |
| clarkb | mordred: corvus: and order the playbooks to enforce the current ordering we get in a single playbook? | 19:37 |
| mordred | so I think we really want service-review.yaml that deals with gerrit config managemnt, service-gitea that deals with teh same for gitea, and service-project-config that applies project-config to the gitea and gerrit services | 19:37 |
| clarkb | aha | 19:37 |
| clarkb | that makes sense to me | 19:37 |
| mordred | BUT - that might be too big of a change for this effort | 19:37 |
| mordred | or it might be the _easier_ way to do this effort | 19:38 |
| corvus | mordred: it looks like remote_puppet_git is basically already that, it just runs puppet on review | 19:38 |
| mordred | corvus: yeah - but puppet on review runs manage-projects | 19:38 |
| corvus | yes | 19:38 |
| corvus | mordred: okay, so service-review should not run manage-projects. remote_puppet_git should be updated to run manage-projects. then it should be renamed. | 19:38 |
| mordred | corvus: yeah | 19:39 |
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| corvus | mordred: i think we could just do that as part of the switch | 19:39 |
| corvus | to do it earlier means extracting that from puppet | 19:39 |
| mordred | yeah. and actually - thanks, this has been helpful to my brain | 19:40 |
| corvus | to do it as part of the switch may slightly entend the period where we can't create new projects, but i'm not worried about that | 19:40 |
| mordred | yeah | 19:40 |
| corvus | s/entend/extend/ | 19:40 |
| AJaeger | we have currently very few project creation requests... | 19:40 |
| AJaeger | so, unless there's a deadline - like a summit - we can easily block a few days or even more than a week | 19:41 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:41 |
| mordred | cool | 19:41 |
| clarkb | especially if we communicate it in advance | 19:41 |
| clarkb | "do this now or wait a while" | 19:41 |
| corvus | i'd expect the worst case to be like a day :) | 19:41 |
| mordred | I also looked BRIEFLY at the idea of "replace manage-projects with some ansible like gitea" | 19:42 |
| mordred | but I think that should be a followup - there's a few potential gotchas | 19:42 |
| clarkb | I've still got test changes up for manage projects which can help us limp it along too | 19:42 |
| mordred | there are a few things jeepyb is taking care of though that we no longer care about | 19:42 |
| AJaeger | corvus: a day? not a problem... | 19:42 |
| clarkb | and then transition that into testing for new tooling | 19:42 |
| clarkb | as a time check we've got ~17 minutes left. Should we continue on to the next several subjects? | 19:43 |
| mordred | yeah. I'm good on this one if y'all are | 19:43 |
| clarkb | (I doubt we'll solve the refactor here) | 19:43 |
| corvus | ++ | 19:43 |
| clarkb | #topic General Topics | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General Topics (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:43 | |
| clarkb | fungi: I don't think there has been any new progress on the wiki puppetry. If you are still here can you confirm? | 19:44 |
| fungi | nope | 19:44 |
| clarkb | ok | 19:44 |
| fungi | (no progress, and i'm not here to confirm) | 19:44 |
| clarkb | ianw: static.openstack.org -> static.opendev.org transition | 19:45 |
| clarkb | ianw: are we basically done at this point? | 19:45 |
| ianw | just cleanup now | 19:45 |
| ianw | are we still ok with removing logs.openstack.org dns | 19:45 |
| clarkb | ianw: our rotation time period was 30 days prior to switching to swift, we transitioned to swift well over 30 days ago. I think I'm good | 19:45 |
| clarkb | we could potentially have logs.openstack.org redirect to zuul.openstack.org/builds | 19:46 |
| clarkb | but I doubt even that is necessary | 19:46 |
| ianw | there's some puppet cleanup https://review.opendev.org/#/q/status:open+topic:static-services | 19:46 |
| clarkb | #link https://review.opendev.org/#/q/status:open+topic:static-services cleanup static.openstack.org now that all services are hosted by static.opendev.org | 19:46 |
| ianw | right, in the spec we would remove the dns, just checking we're still ok with it | 19:46 |
| clarkb | I'm ok with it | 19:46 |
| ianw | files.openstack.org and static-old.openstack.org are now idle | 19:46 |
| AJaeger | let's remove them as well | 19:47 |
| AJaeger | ianw: but first change https://opendev.org/zuul/zuul-jobs/src/branch/master/test-playbooks/base-roles/validate-host.yaml#L13 ;) | 19:48 |
| AJaeger | that's the only reason to keep files.o.o | 19:48 |
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| ianw | heh well actually files.openstack.org is a CNAME now to static ... i should of said the host files02.openstack.org | 19:49 |
| ianw | but agree we could change that for completeness | 19:49 |
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| clarkb | alright sounds like that may be it on static | 19:52 |
| clarkb | Now for the last subject | 19:52 |
| clarkb | IRC channel usage. | 19:52 |
| clarkb | frickler brings up that we have redundant channels between #openstack-infra and #opendev and that we mirror bot events to both | 19:53 |
| clarkb | thinking about what corvus said before about how we've not effectively been building the opendev community much outside of openstack, maybe we should just transition channels sooner than later? | 19:53 |
| AJaeger | that's one reason why I'm staying out of #opendev - there're only bots with the same information I saw elsewhere already | 19:53 |
| clarkb | frickler: ^ I'm not sure if you are still around today, but happy to hear if you have specific thoughts too | 19:54 |
| AJaeger | With the opendev split, we split repos into openstack and opendev - should we do the same for notifications? | 19:54 |
| frickler | I don't have a solution, but my main concern are duplicated bot msgs, yes | 19:54 |
| corvus | if we're going to start using #opendev, i think we're going to need to really decide to do it as a team and make an effort | 19:55 |
| AJaeger | So, whatever stays in openstack , goes to #openstack-infra, what moves out goes to #opendev? | 19:55 |
| clarkb | corvus: ya and have a flag day and if questions pop up that are opdnev specific in -infra really push people to move | 19:55 |
| clarkb | AJaeger: yes I think that makes sense | 19:55 |
| clarkb | we might mirror project-config on the short term since it still handles both | 19:55 |
| AJaeger | I volunteer to propose a change... | 19:55 |
| AJaeger | (if there is merit) | 19:55 |
| corvus | the main thing i worry about with channels is that if we're mising important information in one, then it becomes less useful | 19:55 |
| corvus | i'm happy to have the list reduced, but we should be careful | 19:56 |
| corvus | like openstack/project-config should probably go to both right now. | 19:56 |
| clarkb | corvus: agreed | 19:56 |
| AJaeger | I'm fine duplicating a few projects - but not *all* of them | 19:56 |
| corvus | and if we remove zuul/* from one, we should remove it from the other too | 19:56 |
| frickler | maybe we need to move completely, redirect #openstack-infra to #opendev | 19:56 |
| frickler | like with other retired channels | 19:56 |
| clarkb | frickler: maybe we can consider that option if -infra goes idle after an initial split? | 19:57 |
| clarkb | I'm worried we can't accurately predict now if there would still be openstack specific chatter in -infra or not | 19:57 |
| frickler | cause for most infra issues that pop up, I think its difficult to say whether they are opendev or not | 19:57 |
| clarkb | this is true | 19:57 |
| clarkb | usually we have to investigate before things fall one way or the other | 19:57 |
| frickler | and "customers" can tell even less | 19:58 |
| clarkb | I'll have to think on that a bit more I guess. My initial thought was definitely to keep both | 19:58 |
| clarkb | and accept a period where we'll have to manage transition and point people in the correct location | 19:58 |
| clarkb | but that is an excellent point about how this might be difficult | 19:58 |
| corvus | but if every "my devstack-based job failed" question goes to #opendev, then i think that's going to turn off potential non-openstack contributors | 19:59 |
| AJaeger | let's cleanup the channels - I'll first cleanup #opendev, then #openstack-infra... | 19:59 |
| clarkb | corvus: ya | 19:59 |
| clarkb | so maybe we start with two channels (its easier to start there and go to one if we decide that works than it is to redirect and then unsplit later) | 19:59 |
| clarkb | frickler: ^ do yu think that is an acceptable incremental state to be in? | 19:59 |
| clarkb | (also as a time check we are now at time. There is no meeting after us so we can finish this topic before ending the meeting) | 20:00 |
| frickler | sure, let's try and see where we end at | 20:00 |
| clarkb | AJaeger: ^ I think that means you can proceed with your planned changes | 20:01 |
| AJaeger | ack | 20:01 |
| clarkb | If there are other thoughts that come up on this subject feel free to discuss further in -infra or on the reviews | 20:01 |
| clarkb | and with that I think we should let people eat dinner/lunch/breakfast | 20:01 |
| clarkb | thank you all | 20:01 |
| clarkb | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 3 20:01:44 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2020/infra.2020-03-03-19.02.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2020/infra.2020-03-03-19.02.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2020/infra.2020-03-03-19.02.log.html | 20:01 |
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| martial_ | Hello friends | 21:00 |
| oneswig | Greetings | 21:00 |
| oneswig | let us get on with the show! | 21:00 |
| janders | g'day! :) | 21:00 |
| jonmills_nasa | howdy | 21:00 |
| oneswig | you driving today martial_? :-) | 21:00 |
| martial_ | one topic? sure | 21:01 |
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| martial_ | #startmeeting scientific-sig | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 3 21:01:25 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is martial_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_sig' | 21:01 |
| martial_ | #chair oneswig | 21:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: martial_ oneswig | 21:01 |
| martial_ | Good day/evening/morning everybody and welcome to the 2020 March 3rd edition of the famous Scientific SIG weekly IRC meeting | 21:02 |
| jonmills_nasa | gee...that openstack-discuss mailing list has been kinda wild lately, huh? | 21:02 |
| oneswig | not been following it recently - any specific threads? | 21:02 |
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| jonmills_nasa | well there's the debacle over the glance team rejecting the OSC client, in favor of python-glanceclient | 21:03 |
| rbudden | hello | 21:03 |
| oneswig | I saw that go by | 21:03 |
| oneswig | why oh why? | 21:03 |
| jonmills_nasa | multiple governane questions from Mohammed Naser | 21:04 |
| janders | g'day all | 21:04 |
| jonmills_nasa | the think about OpenDev splitting off from OpenStack? | 21:04 |
| jonmills_nasa | just curious what folks think about stuff like that | 21:04 |
| martial_ | The OpenDev part, I think is not crazy | 21:05 |
| martial_ | they had one during the past Summit (was it in Vancouver last year?) | 21:06 |
| martial_ | no, Denver | 21:06 |
| martial_ | will see what happens with the Open Infra shift | 21:07 |
| martial_ | #topic UKRI cloud workshop | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "UKRI cloud workshop (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 21:08 | |
| martial_ | Stig? | 21:08 |
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| oneswig | jonmills_nasa: that's quite a long thread... sorry was distracted | 21:08 |
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| oneswig | I've been up to London, for https://cloud.ac.uk | 21:09 |
| jonmills_nasa | yeah no worries, and i don't want to distract us if there's specific business. | 21:09 |
| oneswig | It's an annual 1-day conference for the UK research sector on cloud compute. | 21:09 |
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| oneswig | In recent years it has been an interesting bellweather for public vs private cloud (for example) | 21:10 |
| jonmills_nasa | so how's it looking for private cloud? | 21:11 |
| oneswig | Over recent years the presentation content has shown maturing content, in terms of the form cloud adoption is taking | 21:11 |
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| oneswig | Well, I don't know if there's an unbiased estimate of that but the presentation content covered a lot more private cloud than last time. | 21:11 |
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| oneswig | Some promising presentations from a year ago on managing costs in public cloud had no follow-up this year, which was a pity. | 21:12 |
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| oneswig | At the end, someone summed up along the lines of "I can't believe after all these years it's still a question of someone getting their credit card out" | 21:12 |
| jonmills_nasa | ha | 21:13 |
| martial_ | that last one seems strange ... of course compute requires money to run | 21:13 |
| oneswig | Some good presentations from CERN, Sanger, Vscaler/Genomics England - and our gang at StackHPC | 21:13 |
| oneswig | martial_: more about the means than the money | 21:13 |
| oneswig | It was also observed that in the whole schedule, there were zero public cloud user stories involving significant data. | 21:14 |
| martial_ | 🙌 | 21:14 |
| oneswig | (as in volumes of data) | 21:14 |
| jonmills_nasa | not even archival data? what's that arctic service they have.... | 21:15 |
| martial_ | agreed, volumes" of data is different from user to user | 21:15 |
| martial_ | we have a 100TB use case but that is small | 21:15 |
| oneswig | The hybrid story and the auto-cluster-deployment story - both looking strong | 21:15 |
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| oneswig | jonmills_nasa: I think the access times for archival data make it only suitable for archive... | 21:16 |
| jonmills_nasa | i've never understood the hybrid story, when storage is involved. any efficiency gained in compute seems like it would be lost in data transfers | 21:16 |
| oneswig | I spoke in a session on controlled-access data - life sciences etc. That got a good discussion going. | 21:16 |
| oneswig | jonmills_nasa: you're right, it only works if there's lots of compute to not very much data. | 21:17 |
| martial_ | well there is a possible hybrid conversation: you ETL the data on the large cluster, push the dataset to be worked on to the public cloud and can then use specific compute components as needed to get the result | 21:17 |
| martial_ | it is a fairly common exercise in data optimization | 21:18 |
| martial_ | trick is that it requires some understanding of how to get to the result | 21:18 |
| oneswig | John, Pierre and Steve from our firm gave a highly compressed overview of autoscaling, reservations and preemption - in 15 minutes. | 21:18 |
| martial_ | that is cool:) | 21:19 |
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| oneswig | collectively the fight against resource contention we termed "the coral reef cloud" | 21:20 |
| martial_ | pretty but fragile? | 21:21 |
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| oneswig | The analogy was the fight for space on the sea bed. | 21:22 |
| oneswig | Or perhaps "keep your friends close, and anenomes closer" perhaps? :-) | 21:22 |
| jonmills_nasa | ugh | 21:22 |
| oneswig | sorry | 21:23 |
| oneswig | This might be useful for a future hands-on conference workshop: https://www.instancehub.com/ | 21:23 |
| oneswig | Currently an academic's side project | 21:24 |
| jonmills_nasa | SSL error, won't load in chrome | 21:24 |
| oneswig | funny, you're the second person to say that, seems to work for most | 21:25 |
| martial_ | weird, works for me | 21:25 |
| jonmills_nasa | maybe it's my gov computer rejecting it | 21:25 |
| martial_ | wish OpenStack passport would offer similar service | 21:25 |
| oneswig | martial_: that would indeed be cool. | 21:26 |
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| martial_ | oh and do not forget to write an abstract for SuperComp Cloud for ISC :) | 21:27 |
| oneswig | There were also some interesting benchmarks on Oracle bare metal cloud | 21:27 |
| oneswig | martial_: thanks for the reminder! | 21:27 |
| martial_ | (saw Mike join, just posting everywhere :) ) | 21:27 |
| jmlowe_ | excellent! | 21:28 |
| jmlowe_ | 10 min late, 20 min fiddling with my irc client | 21:29 |
| jonmills_nasa | all federal travel is in jeopardy at this moment FYI (due to coronavirus) | 21:29 |
| jmlowe_ | this makes me very unhappy | 21:29 |
| martial_ | not entirely surprised that said | 21:29 |
| jmlowe_ | although it does seem to have increased the availability of upgrades | 21:29 |
| janders | haha | 21:30 |
| oneswig | Definitely a move not to shake hands at today's event. (I only forgot a couple of times) | 21:31 |
| jonmills_nasa | and, assuming rbudden and I would be allowed to Vancouver in June for OpenDev....we don't even know if that's the correct conference to attend, or if it should be the Summit in Berlin in Oct (which may be yet harder to attend) | 21:32 |
| rbudden | yeah, travel at the moment is interesting… even just heading on-base next week | 21:33 |
| martial_ | Vancouver is PTG only, no presentation | 21:33 |
| oneswig | The way I see it, OpenDev could be a good opportunity to share knowledge from one deployment to another in a hands-on way. | 21:33 |
| rbudden | but as Jonathan mentioned we are actively looking at whether the OpenDev event or the Berlin Summit is the better option | 21:33 |
| martial_ | the "Summit" is Berlin | 21:33 |
| jmlowe_ | I'm leaning towards Berlin these days | 21:34 |
| jonmills_nasa | Berlin, being in Oct, may hopefully far away in time from this coronavirus mess, but it does fall in a new fiscal year, which is also messy for approvals. but yeah | 21:35 |
| martial_ | 🤷 | 21:35 |
| martial_ | Stig anything else on the UKRI topic? | 21:36 |
| oneswig | I don't think so thanks martial_ | 21:36 |
| martial_ | we are already well into AOB :) so let's make it official after this | 21:37 |
| martial_ | #topic SuperComp Cloud at ISC | 21:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SuperComp Cloud at ISC (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 21:37 | |
| martial_ | Mike? | 21:37 |
| jmlowe_ | um, yes, we need submissions | 21:37 |
| jmlowe_ | https://sites.google.com/view/supercompcloud | 21:38 |
| martial_ | 2nd Workshop on Interoperability of Supercomputing and Cloud Technologies | 21:38 |
| jmlowe_ | Extended Abstract Submission Deadline: March 20, 2020 | 21:39 |
| oneswig | The "interoperability" part was only lightly covered last time... are there specific themes? | 21:39 |
| jmlowe_ | There's 15 of them listed on the website | 21:39 |
| jmlowe_ | can copy and paste if desired | 21:39 |
| oneswig | ah, just saw that. | 21:40 |
| jmlowe_ | It's quite broad, covers most anything that touches on cloudy and HPC type things | 21:40 |
| jmlowe_ | right down to workforce development for these types of environments | 21:41 |
| martial_ | Working on an abstract on our end | 21:41 |
| jmlowe_ | the program committee is let's say friendly | 21:42 |
| martial_ | and not for the topic everybody was waiting for :) | 21:42 |
| martial_ | #topic Spanish Inquisition | 21:42 |
| martial_ | oops | 21:42 |
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| jmlowe_ | I was not expecting that | 21:42 |
| martial_ | #topic AOB | 21:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 21:42 | |
| martial_ | got a few minutes it look like | 21:43 |
| oneswig | Nobody expects the spanish inquisition! :-) | 21:45 |
| jonmills_nasa | @one | 21:45 |
| martial_ | I see a couple people still awake :) | 21:45 |
| jonmills_nasa | oneswig we continue playing with monasca | 21:45 |
| oneswig | jonmills_nasa: daveholland from the Sanger was asking recently about CloudKitty | 21:46 |
| jonmills_nasa | i'd say my general impression is that it feels more substantial than ceilometer. i kinda dig it | 21:46 |
| oneswig | Good to hear it. We find there's quite a bit of config you need to apply to make it useful - alarms etc. | 21:47 |
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| jonmills_nasa | so just got monasca-agent working with multi-tenant support (there's docs for it....kinda buried). hopefully can replace ceilometer-compute agents | 21:47 |
| oneswig | Trying to gather more helpful dashboards than the standard | 21:47 |
| oneswig | jonmills_nasa: just reminded me I have a patch up for that for monitoring unmounted disks (very helpful for Bluestore Ceph, for example) | 21:48 |
| oneswig | just need to ... document and unit-test | 21:48 |
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| jonmills_nasa | while monasca-agent can report on disk size (cinder volume size) for billing purposes, what it can't report on is the cinder volume_type, which makes it hard to bill more for faster disk vs slower or standard disk | 21:49 |
| jonmills_nasa | so i may still use the cinder-volume-audit cron script to send to ceilosca to monasca | 21:50 |
| jmlowe__ | How's the data usage of monasca, looked like they were making all the same mistakes ceilometer made in the bad old days, last time I checked | 21:51 |
| jmlowe__ | I remember a Mirantis writeup where a 100 node cluster would produce 6TB of ceilometer data per day | 21:51 |
| jonmills_nasa | umm...i just set an influxdb retention period and don't worry about it | 21:51 |
| oneswig | jonmills_nasa: unless you can get a hint from (eg) lsblk -o '+...', that kind of infrastructure data would have to come from outside the agent's scope. | 21:51 |
| jmlowe__ | ah, ok, they are putting the measurements in influx and not mongodb | 21:52 |
| oneswig | jmlowe__: have a blog post in the wings on writing to Influxdb databases per tenancy, which helps a lot with that. | 21:52 |
| jonmills_nasa | jmlowe__ correct, and I am also turning off unnecessary metrics | 21:52 |
| jonmills_nasa | i.e. metrics I'll never bill on | 21:52 |
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| jmlowe__ | that could be fun, billing only on unusual metrics | 21:53 |
| oneswig | billing according to PID for example? | 21:53 |
| jmlowe__ | compute is free, $100/per console session | 21:54 |
| jonmills_nasa | or billing for dropped tx packets on your tun device | 21:54 |
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| jmlowe__ | $1k per security group change | 21:55 |
| martial_ | (5 minutes warning) | 21:55 |
| jonmills_nasa | i'm done | 21:55 |
| oneswig | I knew there was something | 21:55 |
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| oneswig | #link metrics exported as an Oslo module https://review.opendev.org/#/c/704733/ | 21:56 |
| oneswig | we get similar data in "black box" fashion from HAProxy but this has the potential to be insightful on cloud scaling and performance issues. | 21:57 |
| oneswig | From the Large Scale SIG, there was a request for "scaling stories" to be added here - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scaling-stories | 21:58 |
| martial_ | with that, we are reaching the end of our time | 21:58 |
| oneswig | What they are looking for is what broke, how it was observed, and how to fix/avoid it. | 21:59 |
| oneswig | Thanks all | 21:59 |
| martial_ | Thanks everybody | 21:59 |
| martial_ | #endmeeting | 21:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 21:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 3 21:59:36 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2020/scientific_sig.2020-03-03-21.01.html | 21:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2020/scientific_sig.2020-03-03-21.01.txt | 21:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2020/scientific_sig.2020-03-03-21.01.log.html | 21:59 |
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| oneswig | Until next time! | 21:59 |
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