Thursday, 2020-04-09

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abhishekk#startmeeting glance14:00
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openstackMeeting started Thu Apr  9 14:00:01 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is abhishekk. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'glance'14:00
abhishekk#topic roll call14:00
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abhishekklooks like two of us14:02
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abhishekkwait for 2-3 minutes for rosmaita and smcginnis14:02
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rosmaitasorry, wasn't paying attention14:03
abhishekkno problem, lets start14:03
abhishekk#topic Updates14:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Updates (Meeting topic: glance)"14:03
abhishekkI have created PTG etherpad,14:03
abhishekkWill publish it to openstack-discuss mailing list as well14:04
abhishekkLikely virtual PTG will be scheduled to start one week before from actual dates (not sure yet)14:04
abhishekkFeel free to add topics to PTG for discussion14:04
abhishekkMoving ahead14:05
abhishekk#topic release/periodic jobs update14:05
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abhishekkThis is Ussuri milestone 3 release week14:05
abhishekksmcginnis, o/14:05
abhishekkWe still have couple of specs open14:05
abhishekk1. checksum computation14:06
abhishekk2. deprecate admin role14:06
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abhishekkIMO we should move deprecate admin role to next cycle14:07
abhishekkwhat is your opinion about the same14:07
rosmaitawould rather deprecate now so we can remove next cycle14:07
smcginnisIf it's not a lot of work to just add the deprecation message, I think we should get it done.14:08
rosmaitai think i already have patch up for that14:08
abhishekkrosmaita, have you seen jokke_ comment on the specs14:08
abhishekkthis is the link of etherpad with important patches,
abhishekkjokke_, smcginnis I would like to have  your views on checksum computation specs14:10
rosmaitai don't understand jokke_'s comment14:10
rosmaitabecause if we change the default value, we need to give warning about that as well14:10
rosmaitaand i think my release note addresses that?14:11
abhishekkjokke_, rosmaita, smcginnis as per our glance-specs standard I can not get specs in unless every core voted +2 on it14:12
jokke_What I'm saying is that while not under Embargo this is valid security concern and we should address is asap, not just make a note an expect deployers to act on it14:12
jokke_all I'm saying14:12
jokke_it's not like CVE worthy but definitely something we could do much better for our users14:13
abhishekkTomorrow will be holiday and most of the people will be on leave on Monday due to Easter, so I would like to have this decision made by today14:13
rosmaitawell, in the default config, you don't see any difference at all14:14
jokke_I can't remember if it's still the case but iirc Glance treated project admin as admin in this regard14:14
rosmaitait depends on how you make someone a "project admin"14:15
rosmaitabesides, i talked about this in public at the denver ptg14:15
rosmaitaor summit, rather14:15
rosmaitathere's even a slide making this exact point14:15
jokke_rosmaita: indeed ... so how changing the default value based on this issue would not change anything?14:16
rosmaitaso is your point that we should both deprecate *and* change the default value?14:17
jokke_rosmaita: yes, like I said we should do both so we address the current issue while we deprecate this14:18
jokke_act now, not next cycle14:18
jokke_and that way we can give a cycle more for removal if there's suddenly lots of people depending on this and needing time for it14:18
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jokke_but that all can be figured out after we have fixed the current "admin" overloading and informed that this is been deprecated14:19
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rosmaitaso is your proposal: ussuri change default value, victoria deprecate option, wallaby remove option ?14:21
abhishekksorry, laptop restarted suddenly14:21
abhishekkrosmaita, IMO he is saying deprecate and change the default value now, and remove in wallaby14:22
jokke_rosmaita: that or change defaul & deprecate ussuri; remove V if no hard push from the operator community else remove W14:22
rosmaitathere's not going to be a hard push from operator community, the only things i have heard about this is that it messes up policy configuration14:23
jokke_either way is fine by me as long as we change that default value and address it now as it has been talked in public way too much14:23
smcginnisIt will likely be 2-3 years before operators give any feedback, unfortunately.14:23
jokke_rosmaita: that's great, we still need to initialize that discussion in the mailing list and give room for those voices as per the deprecation policy14:24
jokke_smcginnis: that fine as well as long as we give them the opportunity so we actually follow the policy we assert on ;)14:24
abhishekkrosmaita, how much efforts are required to change the default value?14:24
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rosmaitanot much14:25
rosmaitajust have to change the value and revise the release note14:25
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abhishekkwe should do it then14:25
rosmaitabut i strongly feel that we must deprecate in ussuri14:26
rosmaitaor this will be another one of those never ending deprecations14:26
rosmaitai will also need to revise spec, i guess14:26
abhishekksmcginnis, can I post m3 release patch on Tuesday/Wednesday14:26
abhishekkwe still have 3/4 patches to get in, then config refresh patch14:27
abhishekklooking at the gate, it will easily take 3-4 days for the same14:27
abhishekkjokke_, kindly look checksum computation specs as well14:28
jokke_abhishekk: perhaps we should tag m-3 (or skip it) and make sure these gets into RC-1 ... not like we have any feature work going in14:28
smcginnisYeah, we can wait for RC1 if we want.14:28
abhishekkcan we skip m-3?14:29
smcginnisClient lib needs to be released, but there is no requirement to do milestone releases for services anymore.14:29
jokke_so the checksum deprecation I'm much more worried about. As I feel that might end up being on of those never removed deprecations as I'm pretty sure tempest is gating on checksums14:29
smcginnisOnly if we think someone might pick up those beta releases for testing.14:29
abhishekkWe already have released python-glanceclient14:30
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rosmaitajokke_: see if this describes what you want:
abhishekkThis is my action plan14:32
abhishekk1. Get important patch, in today14:32
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jokke_rosmaita: +2 on the deprecate admin role spec14:32
abhishekk2. Submit config refresh patch14:32
abhishekk3. Tag m-3 on monnday14:32
abhishekkFile FFE for checksum and deprecate admin role (if required) and get them in rc-114:33
jokke_rosmaita: and if we don't have security bug for it, lets open public one so we can actually backport it and already get it out for those who are now looking into deploying steing or train14:33
abhishekkrosmaita, jokke_ smcginnis does it makes sense?14:34
rosmaitaso jokke_ your concern about the checksum, that would *not* be a reason to deprecate it in ussuri, is that right?14:35
jokke_rosmaita: I just want to make sure we can actually remove it before marking it deprecated. (preferably get rid of the tempest test and depend the deprecation on that removal)14:35
jokke_rosmaita: we have too many of these things just hanging because we make a decision and then QA just cockblocks us14:36
rosmaitawell, this is a security concern14:37
rosmaitatwo things here:14:37
rosmaita(1) no change in the api or the response14:37
rosmaita(2) if you are actually validating the download, you need to use the secure method14:37
rosmaitaso i think we can get this one through tempest, i can patch anything using checksum to validate to use multihash14:38
rosmaitabut i think we need to deprecate first so they know we are serious14:38
abhishekkI second this14:38
jokke_I thought that would have been the case with the default visibility as well and how well that went14:39
jokke_or registry14:39
smcginnisWe need to either submit patches to tempest, or at least announce on the ML so they know about the change.14:39
jokke_smcginnis: what we need is commitment from them to agree it can be removed14:40
rosmaitait's not being removed14:40
rosmaitait's just not being populated any more14:40
smcginnisHonestly, if something isn't in refstack, they can't dictate to this team what stays or goes.14:40
jokke_smcginnis: only way that statement is true is to drop tempest gating ... we've seen it too many times by now14:41
jokke_as we have no way to force anything into tempest and they are in our gate14:41
smcginnisWell, that's my point with submitting patches to tempest. If we change something there, it doesn't just impact glance code.14:42
jokke_so they very much do dictate what we can do14:42
rosmaitai think this is going to be different14:42
rosmaitaeveryone thinks that download validation == security14:42
rosmaitaand md5 == really bad14:42
rosmaitaplus, we aren't modifying the image response14:42
rosmaitaso no breaking14:43
rosmaitaand multihash has been available since rocky14:43
rosmaitaand has been used in glanceclient since rocky (second release)14:43
rosmaitaso whereas the visibilility thing was kind of difficult to explain14:44
rosmaitathis is pretty straightforward14:44
abhishekkI think we have discussed this when we have agreed on drafting the specs of checksum deprecation, and sounds straight forward14:44
rosmaitabut the big thing here, is no telcos will use glance pretty soon14:44
rosmaitabecause they want no md5 anywhere14:45
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smcginnisAnd with federally mandated things like FIPS, they may not be allowed to even if they want to.14:45
abhishekkLast 15 minutes,14:46
rosmaitaanyway, i think we need the deprecation clock started on this one right away14:46
rosmaitai.e., in ussuri14:46
rosmaitaand much as it sucks, we can fight it out in victoria14:46
rosmaitabut i don't think there will be much fight on this one14:47
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rosmaitathis is the actual deprecation note i am proposing:
abhishekkjokke_, we should do it now14:48
jokke_So how I see this is, we have 3 options: 1) we deprecate, we potentially fight with qa for next 3 years to get rid of it and might buy us some user time as it's deprecated 2) we change the tempest tests to make sure it's not blocked, and then we deprecate and get rid of it or 3) (possibly as outcome of 1 but we could do it right away) we get security bug opened about it based on any gov policies14:49
jokke_like FIPS preventing it's usage as unsecure and get rid of it right away14:49
jokke_I'd prefer either 2) or 3) but I just have no iterest to fight the 1) route through14:49
rosmaitawell, deprecating it now is consistent with security bug14:50
jokke_some clients might have missed this: 16:49 < jokke_> like FIPS preventing it's usage as unsecure and get rid of it right away14:50
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rosmaitai don't see any reason *not* to deprecate now14:51
jokke_rosmaita: nope, if we take the security bug route, we can get rid of it in Ussuri and even backport it, deprecating it now will be earliest V which means that the telcos will be stuck with md5 until like 2025 unless we later on backport the removal through a bug14:51
jokke_so what I'm saying is, we can either get rid of it without even worryig about deprecation if there is F.E. gov policy mandating us to do so. Or we might end up stuck with it for non-determined time14:52
abhishekklast 8 minutes, we can continue discussion on it #openstack-glance channel14:53
abhishekkMoving ahead14:53
abhishekk#topic glance-specs victoria patch14:53
*** openstack changes topic to "glance-specs victoria patch (Meeting topic: glance)"14:53
abhishekkI have created glance-specs patch for victoria14:54
abhishekkplease have a look at it so we can start adding specs for victoria14:54
abhishekk#topic Open discussion14:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: glance)"14:54
abhishekkhave a look at it14:55
smcginnisNothing from me.14:55
abhishekkas per docs we expect bool values for all-stores and allow-failure, so We are rejecting requests if it is not bool14:55
jokke_is the client actually sending JSON bool or did I mess that up?14:57
abhishekkjokke_, fixed client yesterday14:57
abhishekknow it is sending JSON bool14:57
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abhishekklast two minutes14:58
jokke_I thought that might have been the case14:59
abhishekktime is up, switching back to openstack-glance for further discussion14:59
abhishekkthank you all15:00
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Apr  9 15:00:12 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:00
openstackMinutes (text):
gagehugo#startmeeting security15:04
openstackMeeting started Thu Apr  9 15:04:18 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gagehugo. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)"15:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'security'15:04
gagehugo#link agenda15:04
fungialoha, y'all15:04
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gagehugohopefully everyone is staying safe and not getting cabin fever15:05
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fungii was already a hermit15:06
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gagehugonow most of us are, at least in practice15:07
fungiheh, indeed15:07
fungirecluses at the very least15:07
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gagehugo#topic Weekly Updates15:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Weekly Updates (Meeting topic: security)"15:08
gagehugoChanging it up a bit, since we usually just discuss any new happenings15:08
gagehugoLast week was pretty quiet15:08
gagehugoI saw the mailing list email last night15:09
gagehugoabout storyboard15:09
gagehugothanks for replying to that fungi15:09
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fungiyou bet, i followed up a few minutes ago as well, and i'll take a look at his story shortly15:09
gagehugoshould i be getting storyboard email notifications?15:10
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gagehugootherwise I haven't seen anything15:14
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gagehugofungi: any updates from you?15:16
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funginah, that's pretty much it. as for notifications, you have to turn them on, but there's also a bug right now we're investigating where private status breaks the e-mail notification codepath15:18
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gagehugoah ok15:20
gagehugoI'll look at it15:20
gagehugofungi: thanks, stay safe15:20
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fungiyou tooW15:20
openstackMeeting ended Thu Apr  9 15:20:46 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:20
fungier, too15:20
openstackMinutes (text):
fungithanks gagehugo!15:20
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