Thursday, 2021-01-21

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jokke#startmeeting glance14:09
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 21 14:09:23 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jokke. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:09
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance)"14:09
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'glance'14:09
jokke#topic roll-call14:09
*** openstack changes topic to "roll-call (Meeting topic: glance)"14:09
dansmithisn't abhishekk back today?14:11
jokkeTomorrow, they had good Wedding week ;)14:11
jokkeI think that's everyone so lets get started14:12
rosmaitawell, best wishes from the glance team to the newlyweds!14:12
dansmithit is his sister I think14:12
jokke#topic release updates14:13
*** openstack changes topic to "release updates (Meeting topic: glance)"14:13
openstackRemoving item from minutes: #topic release updates14:13
rosmaitadansmith: yes, but still14:13
jokkeindeed his sister14:13
jokkeand indeed big GZ!14:13
jokke#topic release updates14:13
*** openstack changes topic to "release updates (Meeting topic: glance)"14:13
jokkeSo we have m-2 release patch waiting ofr the release team to get it tagged14:13
jokkenothing special on that14:14
jokke#topic reserved image properties14:14
*** openstack changes topic to "reserved image properties (Meeting topic: glance)"14:14
jokkedansmith: I think this is yours14:14
rosmaitai forget why i put that on the agenda14:15
dansmithpatches are up, would love some review :)14:15
rosmaitaoh, yeah, there are some side impacts14:15
dansmithI have a nova fix also because nova was abusing some props that this will prevent14:15
rosmaitai think we need to remove that deprecated option that disallows custom image properties14:16
jokkethat one14:16
rosmaitai guess it's assigned to me, but i wonder if cyril might pick it up14:17
dansmiththat needs to go before the reserved props? just because they could technically put reserved props in the additional list?14:17
jokkeI also think we should not count os_glance_* for the quota14:17
dansmithoh, yeah, I was supposed to look at that, but this doesn't change behavior if we're already doing that14:18
rosmaitai agree, though am not sure how easy that will be14:18
rosmaitai think our quota management is onion-layered14:18
jokkeI'm pretty sure it is14:18
rosmaitayeah, so the short-term fix would be set a min on the quota that allows for maybe 5 or so of those properties14:19
rosmaitaand dansmith to answer your question, i am not sure whether the reserved properties would be blocked if custom properties are disallowed14:20
rosmaitanot sure where that enforcement happens14:20
dansmithrosmaita: the enforcement is at the API layer, so I think not14:20
rosmaitaok, that would be good14:20
rosmaitai think we still need to remove the custom properties turnoff, because all sorts of services rely on them14:21
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rosmaitabut maybe we don't have to absolutely do it in wallaby14:22
jokkeI think we need to deprecate it and wait at least a cycle anyways14:22
dansmithdoes that mean execute on the planned deprecation or cancel the deprecation?14:22
jokkeas per the standard deprecation policy14:22
rosmaitai thought it was deprecated already14:22
rosmaitai will check14:22
jokkeohh, might be my bad. if it was indeed deprecated in ussuri where that spec is, we should be fine removing it now14:23
dansmithright, so I'm asking if rosmaita is talking about undeprecating, or continuing on removal14:24
rosmaitayes, glance conf is showing deprecated since ussuri14:24
rosmaitai am talking about removing it14:24
rosmaitacontinuing with the deprecation14:24
dansmithokay, you said "remove the custom turnoff, because people rely on it" so I was all confused :)14:24
rosmaitai wasn't sure if it would impact glance's own use of additional properties14:24
rosmaitasorry, what i meant was14:24
rosmaitaall sorts of services use custom image properties (like cinder_encryption_key_id)14:25
rosmaitaand some hypervisor stuff for nova14:25
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rosmaitaso if you turn them off, all sorts of stuff will break in your cloud14:25
rosmaitaso we should remove the temptation to turn them off14:26
dansmithright, but this is just talking about removing the static list of allowed ones yeah?14:26
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rosmaitathere's an option that restricts whether *any* properties outside the image schema are allowed14:26
jokkedansmith: we have config option that allows deployer to turn off all custom properties that are not supplied by glance14:26
dansmithoh, it's a toggle I see14:26
dansmithsorry, I thought it was a list for some reason. I'm caught up now14:27
rosmaitayeah, not sure why it was there, but it was14:27
jokkeI think that's still remains from the Images API v1 times14:27
jokkeso very early days14:28
rosmaitayeah, before the "quotas" were introduced14:29
rosmaitai blame jay pipes!14:29
jokkeWhat I do not know is if we can change the minimum quota or if we just need to document it14:29
rosmaitagood question14:30
dansmithwhat happens if the user uses all N on create,14:30
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rosmaitathat would be a problem14:30
dansmithand then when we go to import... will glance get stuck unable to add os_glance_importing_to_stores?14:30
rosmaitathat requires some investigation14:31
rosmaitacomes down to where the enforcement actually happens14:31
jokkedansmith: that's why I was saying we just shouldn't count the os_glance_ in the quota at all now when we're preventing external setting of them14:31
dansmithwell, if it's onioned, I expect way below the api14:31
dansmithjokke: yep, I'm totally on board with that,14:32
dansmithI'm just saying maybe upping the minimum isn't good enough14:32
rosmaitathat's my worry, it was implemented while markwash was PTL iirc14:32
rosmaitaand he was big on the onion14:32
dansmithoh, is that who I should name my voodoo doll after?14:32
jokkedansmith: agreed and I don't know if we even can do that. Even changing some default values has been massive fight with QA, so I guess if tempest is testing any of the property quota stuff, changing it will be no-go14:33
rosmaitai'm pretty sure they don't14:33
dansmithI don't think that'd be a fight, FWIW, but that's a good reason to actually exclude it from the quota, in addition to the DoS problem14:34
jokkeYeah I don't think enforcing minimum quota will do any good if someone decides that they want feck around14:35
jokkeanything else about this?14:38
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rosmaitaonly whether we have an action item14:39
rosmaitai guess dansmith will look into this?14:39
dansmithI still don't think either of these things are important to do before we land this enforcement,14:39
dansmithbecause the enforcement doesn't change the results of either14:39
rosmaitai don't disagree, just think we need to have a better understanding of the quota issue before RC time14:40
jokkecorrect I don't see reason why they should land before landing the enforcement patch. Just need to make sure we get it sorted for the release.14:40
jokkerosmaita: ++14:40
jokkeif it's not trivial to filter the quota enforcement, let file a bug for it so we have tracker14:41
dansmithwell, not sure why before the release,14:41
rosmaitaright, and if dansmith casts it as a DoS issue, should be backportable14:41
dansmithsince the enforcement patch isn't changing the number of keys we're using14:41
dansmithbut obviously it's a good idea to figure it out14:42
dansmithrosmaita: it's kindof a self-dos really, so not super impactful I think14:42
rosmaitai agree14:42
dansmith"user can prevent ... themselves from using resources" :P14:42
jokkewell it's yet another very crappy user experience thing ... although I have no idea if anyone is actually using the property quotas14:44
jokkeAnyways we need to have it fixed or well documented before we push release out14:45
rosmaitai think the default is 12814:45
rosmaitaso probably no one has run up against this14:45
jokkeand it's separate even without the enforcement as you can still shoot yourself into the foot as we are now14:45
jokkerosmaita: yeah, haven't heard anyone asking about it yet14:46
jokkemoving on14:46
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jokke#topic bug fest14:46
*** openstack changes topic to "bug fest (Meeting topic: glance)"14:46
jokkeJust reminder, bug scrub Tuesday next week as it will be milestone+1 week14:47
jokke#topic Open discussion14:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: glance)"14:47
jokkeAnything else?14:48
dansmithI have a hard stop in 13 minutes,14:48
dansmithbut would definitely like to talk about the distributed import stuff14:48
rajivmuchelijokke did you get a chance to validate the version issue ? pbr commit ?14:48
rosmaitajokke: left a comment on your ceph optimization spec14:48
rosmaitadansmith: i am all ears14:48
dansmithrosmaita: well, I'd mostly like to hear review comments :)14:49
jokkerajivmucheli: still on my list to look. So all: just pointer what we're talking about. rajivmucheli is seeing glance-api reporting version 19.0.0 since Train. Not sure yet wether that is problem on our end or on their fork of the repo, but it's weird anyways14:50
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rajivmuchelii see the glance_store upgraded but not glance-api version.14:51
jokkerosmaita: thanks, just quick remark. I will need to double check that but IIUC that feature has been in RADOSLib for ages, we're just not using it14:52
jokkerosmaita: as that's what cephclient is using14:52
jokkefor long time14:52
jokkeIf there's nothing else, lets give dansmith 4min to stretch and rest of us can get back to work :D14:55
rosmaitanothing from me14:56
jokkekk, we can continue is #openstack-glance for anything else. Thanks All!14:56
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:57
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 21 14:57:02 2021 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:57
openstackMinutes (text):
gagehugo#startmeeting security15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 21 15:00:26 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gagehugo. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'security'15:00
gagehugo#link agenda15:00
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gagehugoNothing on the agenda today15:06
gagehugo#topic open discussion15:06
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: security)"15:06
gagehugoAnyone have anything?15:06
fungi#link Public reports of suspected vulnerabilities in need of review15:08
fungii think there are 29 at the moment (if you're logged in as a vulnerability manager you may see a higher number)15:08
fungirevisiting private reports, it seems we have one where the embargo has expired too, i'll open it up now15:10
fungi#link XSS in adding JavaScript into the ‘Subnet Name’ field15:11
openstackLaunchpad bug 1892848 in OpenStack Security Advisory "XSS in adding JavaScript into the ‘Subnet Name’ field" [Undecided,Incomplete]15:11
fungiso that brings the total up to 30 which would be nice to get some folks to weigh in on15:12
fungii should revisit my earlier idea to sort them by project and send a list to th eopenstack-discuss ml15:13
redrobotI'll try to make some time to review some of those. Not sure how useful I'll be though. 😅15:13
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gagehugothanks fungi, anyone else have anything?15:18
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fungithat was all i had for this week. i'll try to send something to the ml, but infra fires have dominated my available time recently15:19
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gagehugoyeah, coming back from vacation has consumed most of my time lately15:22
gagehugothanks fungi, redrobot! Have a good rest of the week!15:22
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:22
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 21 15:22:43 2021 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:22
openstackMinutes (text):
fungithanks gagehugo!15:22
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gmann#startmeeting policy_popup18:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 21 18:02:33 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gmann. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: policy_popup)"18:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'policy_popup'18:02
gmannseems two of us, let's quickly discuss the things18:04
gmanntoday agenda18:04
gmannwe had few action item from previous meeting18:04
gmanngmann to check with abhishekk on glance point in meeting agenda18:05
gmannI am not sure i did it so continuing this18:05
gmann#action gmann to check with abhishekk on glance point in meeting agenda18:05
gmanngmann to push common persona on oslo policy and release 3.6.1 and lbragstad to review that18:05
gmannlbragstad: i think you pushed this18:05
lbragstadwe had a little debate on that in review18:05
lbragstadyeah - and we weren't quite sure what to do with scope_types18:06
lbragstadfor example, if we set scope_types on personas in oslo.policy, do we expect projects to override them in the actual implementation?18:07
lbragstadthat wasn't really clear and we weren't sure what the best approach was18:07
lbragstadso it fizzled out18:07
gmannyeah having system_scope:all in check_str and not scope_type seems little conflicting18:08
lbragstadand i can see how that causes confusion18:08
lbragstadi don't really care for duplicated check string in each service, but i think i'd rather have that than push something through without thinking about how best to handle it18:09
gmannand we can leave scope_type for service side rule to take care of?18:09
gmannlike done in nova18:10
lbragstadwe could - but we need to ensure nested DocumentedDefaultRules work as expected with scope checking18:10
gmanni see your point. i think it work fine as in nova18:11
gmannbut we can add test in oslo.policy side too18:11
lbragstadi don't think i've seen a case where we nest them18:11
gmannah you mean keeping in both?18:12
gmanncommon rule as well as in specific rule too18:12
lbragstadwell - a lot of the services will use the composite rules in their services specific policies, right?18:12
lbragstadwith check_str=rule:system_admin -> which is ultimately imported as a DocumentedRuleDefault instance from oslo.policy18:13
gmannbut is common rule going to be registered  as registered rule in oslo policy?18:13
gmannbecause oslo policy only checks scope type from register rules
gmannanyways i was thinking to remove the scope_type from common rules and let service side to define that in their policy18:14
lbragstadcorrect - but the additional recommendation was to use DocumentedDefaultRule for each common persona (check string) so that the definitions for system-admin, system-reader, etc... are all consistent18:14
lbragstadacross the implementations in services18:15
gmannotherwise it is confusing in both way 1. if not checked in oslo policy or 2. checked and erorr18:15
gmannyeah DocumentedRuleDefault rule does not force scope_type18:16
lbragstadit's optional18:16
lbragstadbecause it landed in oslo.policy prior to the scope work in keystone and related libraries18:16
gmannbut we cannot make it mandatory until we remove the old/existing policy completely18:17
lbragstadso - the approach i proposed was to implement the common persona check strings as instances of DocumentedRuleDefault because we thought it would be nice to have the same definition/help text for each common personas18:17
gmannthat time we can pass some special case for common rules and ignore those in actrual checking  ?18:17
gmann+1 fo that18:18
lbragstadotherwise - we could just do something SYSTEM_ADMIN = 'role:admin and system_scope:all'18:18
lbragstadif the common bits are just strings, then we shouldn't have any problems putting them in oslo.policy as constants18:18
lbragstadotherwise - it was going to be SYSTEM_ADMIN = policy.DocumentedRuleDefault(name='rule:system_admin', check_str='role:admin and system_scope:all')18:19
lbragstadand the second case was causing some confusion18:19
gmannother problem with having it  DocumentedRuleDefault  is about deprecation
gmannand for that services need to define other common rule there side even we make oslo policy common as constant or DocumentedRuleDefault18:20
gmannor we can provide set method on DocumentedRuleDefault  to set the deprecated rule info18:21
lbragstadok - so are we saying we should or shouldn't move forward with the common personas as DocumentedRuleDefaults in oslo.policy?18:23
gmannhumm, i would like to have in DocumentedRuleDefaults  but from current challenges it seems difficult and going with constant seems easy18:25
gmannat least it can be helpful when we remove the 'system:all' special string18:25
lbragstadi need more time to think about it and the ramifications of how it's going to work and test it18:26
gmannI will also try to consume it on nova side and see how it work/look18:26
gmann#action lbragstad to continue on common persona on oslo policy18:26
lbragstadfor the most part, i've proposed audits for each api and almost all the new check strings are consistent (even if they are duplicated)18:26
gmannone more challenge i see in common persona is how to change them 'remove system:all' all together for all projects or one by one.18:28
gmannbut need to think more on this18:28
gmannanyways let's continue brainstorming on this.18:28
gmannnext Action item is18:29
gmannlbragstad to finish placement as first18:29
gmannI started review the placement patches and I think i should be able to do tomorrow18:29
gmannstephen is already +2 on most of them i think18:29
lbragstadso - i think placement is pretty much done18:29
gmanncool, thanks for that.18:29
lbragstadi'm working on cinder and ironic now - and we're trying to work through testing strategies with ddt18:30
lbragstadironic has a pretty good start18:30
gmannwith unit tests?18:30
lbragstadthey're testing everything that's supported by the legacy RBAC approach18:30
lbragstadthey're using functional API tests with ddt18:30
gmannoh they do not use policy fixture?18:30
gmanni mean testing on actual default policy?18:31
lbragstadyeah - they're testing all the default policies that exist today without any of the secure rbac changes18:31
lbragstadso - they want protection testing for project-admin and project-member use cases18:31
lbragstadas a starting point18:32
gmanni see.18:32
lbragstadand then as they implement the various personas, they're going to add new tests for the additional personas18:32
lbragstad(each class will inherit a different setup that sets the oslo-policy config options that opt them into the new world of enforcement)18:32
gmann+1, that is nice.18:32
lbragstadi'm attempting to do the same thing with cinder right now18:33
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gmannbut there you have to write all these new tests like done in nova18:33
lbragstadi'm not sure how far i'm going to get in two weeks - but i'd like to have enough of a start for others to start jumping in18:33
gmannI can take care of glance after checking with glance team which is fist AI18:34
gmannmy JSON->YAML work is almost done, need to debug some failure thoguh18:34
lbragstadsounds good18:35
gmannlet's move next18:35
gmannlast action item is raildo to update
gmannhe updated that seems.18:36
gmannI think we also covered the agenda topics also as part of action item.18:36
gmannlbragstad: anything else you have to discuss?18:36
lbragstadi posted this to the openstack-discuss mailing list18:37
raildogmann, yo, yeah, I have updated the docs suggestions, but I believe that would be nice to create some spec for the "visibility" function discussed on the previous patch set18:37
gmannah i see18:37
lbragstadjust clarifying some points that have been brought regarding and important distinction between reader and auditor usecases18:37
lbragstadan important*18:37
gmannlbragstad: +1, that was really nice info. should we add that in some doc in keystone side or so?18:38
lbragstadalready done18:39
gmannraildo: yeah, that case we can cover.18:39
gmannlbragstad: ah nice :) thanks18:39
lbragstadif you want to review it18:40
gmannyeah sure, I will check.18:40
gmannso raildo point for 'visibility' is in many places in neutron side i think18:40
raildoyeah, it might want to discuss about this on the next PTG-ish?18:40
gmannraildo: ok and merge the current version of 743318/ for now or you want to hold it?18:42
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raildogmann, I would that we can merge it, I already adding a note saying that we'll discuss the visibility in a future18:43
raildoI would say*18:43
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gmann+1 from me.18:44
gmannI will review the latest version.18:44
gmannanything else to discuss?18:44
lbragstadi'm good18:44
gmannthanks lbragstad raildo .18:45
lbragstadthanks gmann18:45
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 21 18:45:23 2021 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:45
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