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| Sam-I-Am | russellb: does starting ovn-northd automatically start ovsdb-server? | 01:09 |
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| openstackgerrit | Han Zhou proposed openstack/networking-ovn: Disable ovsdb monitor2 https://review.openstack.org/257721 | 08:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | garyk proposed openstack/networking-ovn: Remove the openstack-common.conf file https://review.openstack.org/257762 | 09:35 |
| openstackgerrit | garyk proposed openstack/networking-ovn: Remove the openstack-common.conf file https://review.openstack.org/257762 | 09:39 |
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| openstackgerrit | garyk proposed openstack/networking-ovn: Introduce datastructure called PortInfo https://review.openstack.org/257877 | 12:43 |
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| russellb | Sam-I-Am: it actually expects that openvswitch is already running (ovs-vswitchd and ovsdb-server). When you start northd, it creates the OVN databases in the local ovsdb-server if they haven't been created yet | 13:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | russellb: aight. i'll clarify. | 13:36 |
| russellb | there's a bit of magic in there ... it was to avoid several more set up steps | 13:37 |
| Sam-I-Am | looks like start openvswitch (which starts ovsdb-server) and then start ovn-northd | 13:38 |
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| russellb | Sam-I-Am: yes, that's right | 13:51 |
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| openstackgerrit | Russell Bryant proposed openstack/networking-ovn: Disable ovsdb monitor2 https://review.openstack.org/257721 | 14:06 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/networking-ovn: Remove the openstack-common.conf file https://review.openstack.org/257762 | 14:17 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/networking-ovn: Disable ovsdb monitor2 https://review.openstack.org/257721 | 15:59 |
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| Sam-I-Am | russellb: moo | 16:38 |
| russellb | Sam-I-Am: quack | 16:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | i saw you chatting about vlan aware vms | 16:39 |
| russellb | it's true! | 16:39 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i had to get away for a few mins and make coffee before bad things happened | 16:39 |
| russellb | :) | 16:39 |
| russellb | i also need more coffee ... | 16:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | first question... ovs uses vlans internally which neutron modifies to vlan IDs it knows about | 16:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | how does ovs pass vlans end-to-end? | 16:40 |
| russellb | not sure i understand the question | 16:40 |
| russellb | maybe an ascii diagram would help? :-p | 16:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | haha | 16:41 |
| * Sam-I-Am drops mic | 16:41 | |
| russellb | ok so, are you trying to reconcile the use of VLANs today in this new vlan-aware-vm world? | 16:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah | 16:41 |
| russellb | got it, good question | 16:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | seems internal usage of vlans in ovs poses a problem | 16:41 |
| russellb | at any point in the path, a packet only has a single VLAN tag | 16:42 |
| russellb | today, there are 2 different cases of vlan tags, right? the internal one for segmenting networks, and potentially the one used for the network itself | 16:42 |
| russellb | right? | 16:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah | 16:42 |
| * russellb is asking "right" a lot | 16:42 | |
| Sam-I-Am | right? | 16:42 |
| russellb | ok, in the new vlan-aware-vm world, we add a 3rd case that is still not overlapping | 16:43 |
| russellb | the use of a vlan tag here is *only* as a packet goes in/out of the VM | 16:43 |
| russellb | it's an encapsulation to segment traffic over a single VIF | 16:43 |
| russellb | inside the VM, it can do whatever | 16:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | right. so you can have sub-ints on a vif that the guest OS can see? | 16:44 |
| russellb | outside the VM, we'll use that VLAN tag to know which neutron network to send the packet on to | 16:44 |
| russellb | yes | 16:44 |
| russellb | "this packet had vlan 101, which means it was from logical port Foo, so we string the vlan tag and send on to network Bar" | 16:44 |
| russellb | next step "network Bar uses vlan 201 internally, so apply that for now" | 16:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | ok, so it sounds like the same implementation as the "other end" of a neutron network... where neutron tags traffic to ext nets | 16:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | except in this case, thats attached to a vm | 16:45 |
| russellb | on its way out to the network "vlan 201 means network Bar, and network Bar is actually vlan 301 on the real network here, so use that tag now" | 16:45 |
| russellb | indeed | 16:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | ah. ok. so there's no q-in-q or trunking within ovs, so to speak. | 16:45 |
| russellb | correct | 16:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | wow, all this without coffee | 16:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | so how about linux bridge? | 16:45 |
| * russellb doesn't care about linux bridge | 16:46 | |
| russellb | to be blunt | 16:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | awww | 16:46 |
| russellb | at some point, if you want to have a programmable network, you use the tools designed for a programmable network | 16:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | seems like a lot of this relies on nova knowing what to do | 16:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, this is why ovn will be nice. | 16:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | finally using ovs without all the conventional baggage | 16:47 |
| russellb | more seriously, i'm not aware of any plans to implement this for LB | 16:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | (which hopefully does vlan-aware vms too) | 16:47 |
| russellb | yes, OVN already has support for this | 16:47 |
| russellb | in fact, we have a binding:profile hack for doing vlan-aware-vms already | 16:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | cool | 16:47 |
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| russellb | it was intended for containers-in-vms, but it's this model | 16:47 |
| russellb | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/networking-ovn/containers.html | 16:47 |
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| Sam-I-Am | linuxbridge has appeal for certain operators, but if ovn is done right, i think it will gain adoption | 16:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | can you think of a migration path from nova-net to ovn? or even linuxbridge to ovn? | 16:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | there are some docs floating around for nova-net to neutron, but using linuxbridge in the most simplest sense. | 16:50 |
| russellb | LB is great if the use case doesn't need more complex programming capabilities | 16:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | in theory i guess you can deploy both linuxbridge and ovn/ovs in one deployment | 16:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | next question - neutron-ovs-bridge-name bp | 16:53 |
| russellb | welllllll not really | 16:54 |
| russellb | i'm not sure if that works with ml2+ovs either | 16:55 |
| russellb | bridge-name bp, plz hold, i need to meet wife for lunch | 16:55 |
| russellb | bbl! | 16:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | ha ok | 16:55 |
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| russellb | Sam-I-Am: i have returned. | 18:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | excellent | 18:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | russellb: so... | 18:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | prior to the bridge-name bp | 18:22 |
| russellb | Sam-I-Am: shall we chat in #openstack-neutron ? | 18:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | in neutron.conf, you can specify ovs and lb mechanisms at the same time | 18:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | sure, we can go over there | 18:22 |
| russellb | well, here is fine | 18:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | ok | 18:23 |
| russellb | does using both actually work? | 18:23 |
| russellb | how does it choose which to use? | 18:23 |
| russellb | depending on which agent that host is running? | 18:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | not sure. devstack has both in the mechanism drivers. | 18:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | but only includes one agent or the other | 18:24 |
| russellb | i see | 18:24 |
| russellb | i don't think vlan-aware-vms affects that | 18:25 |
| russellb | on another note, if you use ovn, that's all you use | 18:25 |
| Sam-I-Am | no, that was just a side note in my brain about helping people migrate from linuxbridge to ovs/ovn | 18:25 |
| russellb | ok | 18:25 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, no ml2 there | 18:25 |
| russellb | re: migrating, it seems doable, it's all software right? | 18:25 |
| russellb | but it would require some migration scripts ... | 18:25 |
| Sam-I-Am | thinking about a migration path makes sense though because it comes up a lot | 18:25 |
| * russellb nods | 18:26 | |
| russellb | i should lab up a devstack ml2+ovs and migrate that to ovn to start with | 18:26 |
| russellb | could even do that with a grenade job | 18:26 |
| russellb | nova-net is a lot more work | 18:27 |
| russellb | because it requires data migration from nova to neutron | 18:27 |
| russellb | migrating neutron ml2+ovs to ovn == probably pretty easy | 18:27 |
| russellb | migrating neutron ml2+lb to ovn == probably still doable, but would require a script to re-plug all ports to ovs br-int | 18:27 |
| russellb | migrating from nova-net == punt | 18:27 |
| russellb | that's not solved in general, much less for ovn | 18:28 |
| russellb | i don't think ovn makes it any easier | 18:28 |
| russellb | no harder either | 18:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | unfortunately migration from nova-net would be the most popular :/ | 18:29 |
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| russellb | i think there's a lot more people running ml2+ovs than nova-net at this point | 18:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | i can see that | 18:30 |
| Sam-I-Am | in any case, adoption is quicker when people can migrate rather than greenfield | 18:31 |
| Sam-I-Am | which is why linuxbridge has gained a little steam with nova-net people | 18:31 |
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| russellb | Sam-I-Am: but nobody knows how to migrate that either | 18:35 |
| russellb | so that doesn't really make sense to me ... | 18:35 |
| russellb | i think LB gained steam because it's more well known to the average linux person | 18:35 |
| Sam-I-Am | russellb: there are some docs for nova-net to a basic neutron-linuxbridge implementation that work | 18:36 |
| russellb | and the fact that the ovs agent uses OVS largely like a linux bridge, it's hard to argue a strong case for the additional complexity | 18:36 |
| russellb | ah ok, well that's cool | 18:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | unofficial docs, but they exist | 18:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm trying to make them more official | 18:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, the extra complexity of OVS as just-a-switch doesn't tickle people... but i think OVN will if it eliminates the bottlenecks of conventional agents | 18:37 |
| russellb | that's the hope ... we're getting there | 18:37 |
| Sam-I-Am | particularly distributed routing and implementing secgroups without an additional linuxbridge | 18:37 |
| russellb | the sec group thing is being done for the ovs agent as well | 18:38 |
| russellb | the routing implementation is drastically different though | 18:38 |
| russellb | we can do some more serious performance comparisons and such once we finish nat | 18:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | sadly, dvr did not have a good start | 18:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | there was huge demand for distributed routing for a long time... and dvr released without any docs or testing on more than one node | 18:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | people jumped on dvr and quickly became frustrated | 18:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | hence my push to make ovn docs available prior to release | 18:40 |
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| russellb | you have my full support :) | 18:41 |
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| Sam-I-Am | when is ovs 2.5 coming out? | 18:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | seems thats a prereq for making ovn easier to install | 18:43 |
| russellb | branch has been created | 18:57 |
| russellb | release very early 2016 | 18:57 |
| Sam-I-Am | so soon after that distro packages should exist? | 19:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | at least the ones being referenced in the deployment integ guide | 19:02 |
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| Sam-I-Am | russellb: if using the conventional l3 agent, should service_plugins include 'router' ? | 19:12 |
| russellb | Sam-I-Am: we hard code it to empty | 19:18 |
| russellb | in our devstack | 19:18 |
| russellb | that doesn't mean it's correct ... | 19:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | russellb: yeah... curious how that impacts conventional l3 agent vs. ovn l3 | 19:19 |
| russellb | not sure | 19:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | have you tested conventional l3 support with empty service_plugins ? | 19:19 |
| switchcade | Sam-I-Am: ETA January, maybe late | 19:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | switchcade: ovn l3 support? | 19:20 |
| switchcade | sorry, was just catching up, OVS-2.5. | 19:21 |
| switchcade | russellb: would know the OVN pieces better than I | 19:21 |
| russellb | Sam-I-Am: "tested" yes :) | 19:22 |
| russellb | Sam-I-Am: that's what it's set to for every devstack run | 19:22 |
| russellb | and it passes tempest | 19:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | interesting | 19:22 |
| russellb | note that we have a custom tempest config | 19:22 |
| russellb | that disables some stuff | 19:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | does it test any l3 stuff? | 19:23 |
| russellb | but it definitely uses a neutron router | 19:23 |
| russellb | default devstack network setup, public and private nets with logical router in between | 19:23 |
| russellb | tests boot VMs on private, create floating IP on public, talk to VM through that floating IP | 19:23 |
| russellb | all is happy | 19:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | well then | 19:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | do you have a deployment i can poke at? | 19:24 |
| russellb | Sam-I-Am: nope ... but we're only a stack.sh away from having one | 19:25 |
| russellb | switchcade: can I get an ACK on this little v2? :-) http://openvswitch.org/pipermail/dev/2015-December/063390.html | 19:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | ok, i can just build one here | 19:26 |
| russellb | Sam-I-Am: ok | 19:26 |
| russellb | Sam-I-Am: i'm sure you've seen http://docs.openstack.org/developer/networking-ovn/testing.html | 19:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | russellb: yup | 19:29 |
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| switchcade | russellb: oh, sorry it slipped through. I'll take a look now. | 19:34 |
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| russellb | switchcade: no worries! | 19:44 |
| russellb | switchcade: that's a follow-up to a fix i applied to branch-2.5, as well, so I guess I should put this in branch-2.5 as well? | 19:47 |
| * russellb not sure how strict you guys usually are ... | 19:49 | |
| * russellb pushes it to branch-2.5 and hopes not to get wrist slapped :) | 19:51 | |
| russellb | actually that code is different in branch-2.5 so i'm leaving it alone | 19:51 |
| * russellb talks to himself some more | 19:51 | |
| Sam-I-Am | russellb: thats a thing | 19:52 |
| openstackgerrit | Han Zhou proposed openstack/networking-ovn: Fix remote_group handling when remote_group is not self https://review.openstack.org/257067 | 20:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | russellb: how quickly do you think rh will build ovs 2.5 packages? | 20:07 |
| russellb | in 3 minutes | 20:07 |
| russellb | but seriously, we'll have it in RDO pretty quick | 20:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | awesome... which probably means the delorean master builds of openstack should also include the bits? | 20:08 |
| russellb | good question | 20:10 |
| russellb | don't know if they build ovs master there | 20:10 |
| * russellb in meeting now | 20:10 | |
| Sam-I-Am | looks like no - https://trunk.rdoproject.org/f22/current/ | 20:13 |
| switchcade | russellb: I think we're not super strict right now, since we've just branched | 20:37 |
| russellb | switchcade: ok | 20:37 |
| switchcade | I think after christmas we'll be tightening it up more. | 20:37 |
| switchcade | Something cosmetic like that would rarely get a backport once the release is actually made | 20:38 |
| russellb | right, i figured | 20:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | russellb: do you have any push for getting ovs master into rdo... or another repo that might work? | 20:40 |
| russellb | i'm sure i could | 20:40 |
| russellb | just a question of time and priorities | 20:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | seems like it might be a good first step for making ovn usable outside of devstack... install fedora, roll the master packages, config, go. | 20:41 |
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| russellb | converting the ovs python lib to Python 3 has been a lot more work than i expected | 21:07 |
| russellb | good thing i didn't try to scope it before i started | 21:07 |
| russellb | :) | 21:07 |
| switchcade | ha | 21:07 |
| russellb | 24 commits, 39 files changed, 509 insertions(+), 305 deletions(-) | 21:07 |
| russellb | so far ... | 21:07 |
| switchcade | hmm. I always thought it was mostly about changing print foo -> print(foo) ;-) | 21:08 |
| russellb | yeah, that's part of it :) | 21:08 |
| russellb | they decided if they were breaking print, might as well break everything | 21:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | haha | 21:10 |
| russellb | https://github.com/openvswitch/ovs/compare/master...russellb:python | 21:11 |
| russellb | some of that is style stuff that i couldn't help myself from | 21:11 |
| switchcade | I had wondered if anyone has run pep8 on the codebase before | 21:49 |
| russellb | switchcade: i left several of the violations ignored, but they're some of the more obnoxious violations | 21:52 |
| russellb | there's some errors about how you do alignment of multi-line statements | 21:53 |
| russellb | you have to get it just right or throws a fit | 21:53 |
| russellb | I fixed a bunch, but here's what I left turned off -- https://gist.github.com/russellb/fc9bd7c6c2d55107f8f7 | 21:54 |
| russellb | 21% test coverage! | 21:54 |
| russellb | ls | 21:55 |
| switchcade | russellb: ah yeah, seems reasonable to me. So long as there's no mixed tabs/spaces ;-) | 21:58 |
| russellb | :) | 21:59 |
| switchcade | I'm guessing that some of our C style has bled into the python | 22:00 |
| russellb | yeah, it's all good | 22:00 |
| switchcade | and that's not the end of the world. | 22:00 |
| russellb | it works, that's what matters | 22:00 |
| switchcade | 21% seems pretty low, although I'm really not aware of what the python code we have does | 22:01 |
| russellb | the only "testing" is importing the code | 22:01 |
| switchcade | ah, I see | 22:01 |
| russellb | baby steps | 22:01 |
| switchcade | yep, makes sense | 22:02 |
| russellb | just that much of a skeleton test env was broken for Python 3.4 until my last commit | 22:02 |
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| russellb | i probably could have made it pass sooner, but i was fixing everything I knew about | 22:03 |
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| Sam-I-Am | russellb: which rpm includes ovn-controller ? | 23:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | or will include... | 23:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | openvswitch-ovn ? | 23:20 |
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