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| kevinbenton | dane_leblanc: i need to think about this more. the db-access lock still seems like a big hammer | 00:17 |
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| dane_leblanc | kevinbenton: If there's a rational explanation for why the first fix works, I think everyon would prefer that approach. | 00:20 |
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| kevinbenton | dane_leblanc: right, i haven't found anything obvious yet. | 00:20 |
| kevinbenton | dane_leblanc: calling get_sesion alone does not trigger a yield | 00:20 |
| dane_leblanc | kevinbenton: Right, it's the query that yields | 00:21 |
| kevinbenton | dane_leblanc: not even that yields in my testing | 00:22 |
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| dane_leblanc | kevinbenton: Let me know, I can go back to the Patch #2 version, which doesn't have the other collateral changes made for consistency. | 00:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | Maru Newby proposed openstack/neutron: Reorganize plugin test modules https://review.openstack.org/171005 | 00:43 |
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| marun | kevinbenton, HenryG, mestery: plz push! https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158811/ | 00:53 |
| kevinbenton | marun: done! | 00:54 |
| marun | kevinbenton: danke! | 00:55 |
| * marun sacrifices small animals to the merge conflict gods | 00:55 | |
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| openstackgerrit | Maru Newby proposed openstack/neutron: Reorganize plugin test modules https://review.openstack.org/171005 | 00:55 |
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| dougwig | marun, kevinbenton - did we clear the aas repo unit tests? | 00:58 |
| kevinbenton | dougwig: won't they have to break one way or another? | 00:59 |
| kevinbenton | dougwig: we'll just need to quick-merge fixes | 00:59 |
| marun | dougwig: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/170983/ | 00:59 |
| marun | dougwig: apologies, I forgot that it had gone to merge conflict | 01:00 |
| dougwig | kevinbenton: heh, it'd be quicker if the fixes were ready. :) | 01:00 |
| marun | dougwig: given how long our gate takes, you have over an hour. your change is test-only at least. | 01:01 |
| dougwig | marun: ahh, thanks. i'll update brandon's fix. | 01:01 |
| marun | dougwig: do you know if you depend on any plugin test code? there are some follow-on patches that clean that up too. | 01:01 |
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| dougwig | since our tests were mostly grafted over, i'm not sure. we will know soon. :0 | 01:02 |
| marun | dougwig: not the base db plugin, the ml2, ovs and lb-specific test code | 01:02 |
| dougwig | marun: i wouldn't think so. | 01:02 |
| * marun crosses his fingers | 01:03 | |
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| amuller | marun: A lot of people are going to hate you in the upcoming week or two, then forget about it | 01:06 |
| amuller | Myself included | 01:06 |
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| marun | amuller: lots of hate to go round :) | 01:06 |
| amuller | marun: <3 | 01:07 |
| marun | amuller: luckily, people are mostly software ;0 | 01:08 |
| marun | ;) | 01:08 |
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| dougwig | marun: and by hate, we really mean... hate. | 01:18 |
| mestery | lol | 01:18 |
| marun | dougwig: heh | 01:18 |
| mestery | I'm going to give marun a special medal in Vancouver | 01:18 |
| mestery | :) | 01:18 |
| dougwig | i think we all owe him a beer for taking on such a thankless task. | 01:18 |
| marun | I think we all deserve many beers :D | 01:19 |
| mestery | MOAR BEERS! | 01:19 |
| dougwig | many beers... that might be an openstack proposal that achieves consensus without 100 emails. | 01:19 |
| marun | hmmmm | 01:19 |
| marun | a worthy experiment! | 01:19 |
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| marun | I have a theory about our difficulty in finding consensus, actually. | 01:20 |
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| marun | Some folks - including russellb - have suggested that it's a problem that we have to meet so often. | 01:20 |
| lifeless | 800 people | 01:20 |
| mestery | in person you mean? | 01:20 |
| lifeless | consensus is hard ;) | 01:20 |
| marun | yeah | 01:20 |
| marun | I think it's a lack of shared vision | 01:21 |
| mestery | I agree | 01:21 |
| mestery | There's something else too | 01:21 |
| lifeless | marun: I agree | 01:21 |
| mestery | It's the fact Neutron is still conflated as an API/DB layer AND an SDN controller | 01:21 |
| mestery | That doesn't help | 01:21 |
| marun | We're all going in different directions, so it's pretty hard to agree on what we want to do when we don't have any shared goals. | 01:21 |
| marun | mestery: agreed | 01:21 |
| dougwig | i agree. my first reaction was, "what vision?" | 01:21 |
| marun | Not just Neutron, though. | 01:21 |
| dougwig | i apply it openstack-wide. | 01:21 |
| mestery | Lets just rearrange the deck chairs a bit! | 01:21 |
| mestery | That'll surely help! :) | 01:22 |
| dougwig | but hey, if we add enough release tags, we can build a vision banner with them. | 01:22 |
| marun | So, where are we going to get shared vision? | 01:22 |
| marun | heh | 01:22 |
| marun | vision banner! | 01:22 |
| mestery | We'll get shared vision by narrowing the focus enough so it's easier | 01:22 |
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| marun | that's necessary, but I don't think it's sufficient | 01:22 |
| marun | I don't think we can substitute anything for vision. We need...vision | 01:22 |
| mestery | I didn't say it was the only thing we'll need | 01:23 |
| marun | We need...leadership | 01:23 |
| mestery | Oh no | 01:23 |
| dougwig | well, we have no linus, and the TC won't do it. so it becomes a million visions based on monied interests. | 01:23 |
| marun | leadership, not management | 01:23 |
| marun | Showing us where to go (results), not necessarily how to get there (process) | 01:23 |
| marun | Why won't the TC do it? | 01:23 |
| marun | Who else can, honestly? | 01:23 |
| mestery | They don't want to do it near as I can tell | 01:23 |
| mestery | See: The Big Tent | 01:24 |
| marun | We can do good things at the project level, but that won't save openstack from itself. | 01:24 |
| dougwig | wouldn't it have happened by now? isn't the big tent the opposite direction? | 01:24 |
| mestery | Right | 01:24 |
| mestery | marun for TC! | 01:24 |
| marun | :( | 01:24 |
| mestery | #voteformarun | 01:24 |
| dougwig | neutron tests and now the tc. poor marun. :) | 01:24 |
| marun | Why doesn't the TC want to do it though? | 01:24 |
| mestery | It's hard | 01:24 |
| mestery | That's why they got out of saying no to projects | 01:24 |
| gus | and unpopular. | 01:24 |
| marun | It's the only thing worth doing, though. | 01:24 |
| mestery | and we have hte big tent | 01:24 |
| mestery | gus: Right | 01:24 |
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| mestery | But it's needed | 01:25 |
| marun | gus: leadership/vision -> unpopular? | 01:25 |
| mestery | The Open Washing that OpenStack will see over the next year is going to be awful | 01:25 |
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| dougwig | i think we're going to see openstack fragment, with the distro maintainers using the big tent to differentiate themselves. but hey, at least people won't have vendor lock-in. oh, wait. | 01:26 |
| marun | mestery: I'm not sure I care about openwashing, to be honest. I do care about developers having enough direction to coordinate their efforts effectively. | 01:26 |
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| gus | marun: It's largely a democract selection process. The candidates that survive that process are most likely to be the ones that offend the least people. | 01:27 |
| marun | mestery: I don't know that the big tent changes that problem at all. | 01:27 |
| mestery | marun: Not only will the products be open washed, the developers will as well. | 01:27 |
| mestery | gus: Democracy at it's finest? | 01:27 |
| openstackgerrit | Dane LeBlanc proposed openstack/neutron: Synchronize auto-addr updates for subnet create https://review.openstack.org/170968 | 01:27 |
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| marun | gus: That doesn't say much about the people currently on the TC. :/ | 01:28 |
| mestery | marun: I think you're underestimating the negative effect Open Washing will have on OpenStack, but it's not the only problem going forward, you're right. | 01:28 |
| mestery | marun: I think a bigger problem is relevance, medium to long term. | 01:28 |
| gus | mestery: right. Democracy has plenty of good and bad properties - (in)efficiency and tendency to the middle are seem like downsides relevant to this discussion. | 01:28 |
| dougwig | well, it all goes back to marun's initial point, which i agree with. there is effectively no unifying leadership/vision/end goal. | 01:28 |
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| mestery | marun: Is OpenStack losing it's buzz? Will we all be made irrelevant due to the latest hotness, containers? Do you even care about IaaS layer with containers? Who knows. | 01:29 |
| marun | gus: I guess I don't understand why pandering to the middle needs to happen to a technical project. | 01:29 |
| mestery | dougwig marun: The project is too big for a shared goal across all of it. | 01:29 |
| dougwig | how many years, and not a single person has been able to say that the nova-net (consumer cloud) versus neutron (amazon vpc) models are the most beneficial for openstack's future/operators/customers? | 01:30 |
| marun | gus: real democracy has the problem of corruption, and I don't think that's manifesting here. | 01:30 |
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| gus | marun: because people aren't mostly software ;) | 01:30 |
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| marun | gus: maybe I'm just mostly software :( | 01:30 |
| marun | mestery: I'm not sure that has to be true. | 01:30 |
| marun | mestery: there are larger software development efforts. see: google | 01:30 |
| marun | microsoft | 01:30 |
| lifeless | The TC is setup as a chokepoint, not as a lead point | 01:31 |
| marun | ooh, maybe not a good example | 01:31 |
| mestery | lol | 01:31 |
| gus | just saying that negative responses tend to outweigh positive ones, so the approach that introduces the least resistance wins out over one that introduces the most positives. | 01:31 |
| gus | see for example the difficulties removing dead code vs just leaving it in. | 01:31 |
| marun | what's the tenure of a tc member? | 01:31 |
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| dougwig | 1 year | 01:31 |
| marun | so we should all run and tear s*** up for a year | 01:31 |
| lifeless | well | 01:32 |
| marun | set a good example for those to come | 01:32 |
| lifeless | I think that setting a shared vision | 01:32 |
| marun | lifeless: or is that simply not the charter? | 01:32 |
| lifeless | is something that can and should happen outside of the tc | 01:32 |
| marun | lifeless: by who? | 01:32 |
| marun | lifeless: nobody else seems to have the necessary authority at the technical level | 01:32 |
| lifeless | see thats the wrong word | 01:32 |
| lifeless | this isn't a matter of authority | 01:32 |
| marun | influence? | 01:32 |
| mestery | Heh, we can't even do things at a project level without everyone getting involved | 01:32 |
| marun | I think you know what I mean | 01:33 |
| lifeless | right | 01:33 |
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| lifeless | I'm working up to something along those lines at the moment | 01:33 |
| lifeless | gathering data and thoughts right now | 01:33 |
| dougwig | we can't even agree on how to set a shared vision. :) | 01:33 |
| lifeless | the TC is chartered as handling exception which individual projects fail to agree on, and setting *only when needed* project wide rules | 01:34 |
| marun | lifeless: I don't think that charter matches what I've seen, but I'll hold my tongue. | 01:34 |
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| marun | lifeless: So, assuming you come up with a compelling vision, how do you propose to have it evolve over time? | 01:34 |
| marun | lifeless: and how to take it down to the project level? | 01:35 |
| lifeless | well | 01:35 |
| lifeless | https://www.openstack.org/foundation/tech-committee/ | 01:35 |
| lifeless | it does say technical leadership | 01:35 |
| lifeless | but there is this whole cultural 'projects make their own decisions' thing | 01:35 |
| dougwig | it's only specific power (4.13.b) is to determine what is openstack. which it's abdicated. | 01:35 |
| lifeless | which the big tent debate and discussion has entrenched further AFAICT | 01:35 |
| marun | lifeless: which, to some degree, I think I agree with. | 01:35 |
| marun | lifeless: projects are necessarily going to have their own cultures | 01:35 |
| marun | lifeless: I don't think that precludes collaboration, though | 01:36 |
| lifeless | marun: conways law bites us pretty hard | 01:36 |
| marun | lifeless: I hear that a lot, and I don't think it's an entirely valid criticism | 01:36 |
| dougwig | for anyone else that needed to google: "organizations which design systems ... are constrained to produce designs which are copies of the communication structures of these organizations" | 01:36 |
| lifeless | marun: ok. let me try a different way of describing the specific issue I see | 01:36 |
| marun | lifeless: We don't expect all people in a project to communicate with all others | 01:36 |
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| marun | lifeless: But we do need an incentive for that coordination to happen between key people | 01:37 |
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| marun | lifeless: the incentive doesn't really exist without shared vision, though. | 01:37 |
| lifeless | marun: our solution so far to scaling development is to create new teams | 01:37 |
| marun | (I'm talking cross-project communication) | 01:37 |
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| marun | lifeless: and that doesn't scale, agreed | 01:37 |
| marun | lifeless: direct trust doesn't scale | 01:37 |
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| marun | lifeless: we need to start relying on trust delegation | 01:38 |
| lifeless | and we make new projects and code bases when we make new teams | 01:38 |
| marun | lifeless: then we can maintain organization along functional rather than 'we can't manage via direct trust - split!' | 01:38 |
| marun | lines | 01:38 |
| dougwig | marun: but you've wandered away from the point that with more delegation, you need even *more* higher-level vision in place for people to align around. | 01:38 |
| marun | dougwig: I don't think so | 01:39 |
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| marun | dougwig: but I'm an optimist, admittedly :) | 01:39 |
| lifeless | technically there's very little reason to have nova, cinder and neutron be different codebases. | 01:39 |
| dougwig | note that *more* in this case would mean *any*, but i digress. | 01:39 |
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| marun | lifeless: I'm not entirely sure about that | 01:39 |
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| marun | lifeless: I'm caught between wanting to drink the amazon 2-pizza team meme | 01:40 |
| lifeless | marun: so, google have a similar thing AIUI | 01:40 |
| marun | lifeless: and recognizing the cost of coordination we're seeing when we split things up | 01:40 |
| lifeless | lots of small teams | 01:40 |
| lifeless | one code base | 01:40 |
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| lifeless | hermetic releases | 01:41 |
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| lifeless | conways law bites us in the following way: our product is not 'openstack', its 'combine these separate projects into a release'; each project has latency on change; changes that involve many projects then pay that latency per project, effectively in serial | 01:42 |
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| lifeless | to fix a bug that exists in the interaction between nova and neutron | 01:43 |
| lifeless | you need two specs with two different mostly distinct groups to sign off on it | 01:44 |
| lifeless | and then you need to do the work | 01:44 |
| lifeless | and you need to maintain compat in both directions to work with older neutron new nova and the reverse | 01:44 |
| marun | lifeless: it seems all but impossible :/ | 01:44 |
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| lifeless | this is a self inflicted problem | 01:44 |
| marun | lifeless: Beyond the vision thing, I think the integrated gate is another key contributor to our current state. | 01:45 |
| marun | lifeless: it's allowed nova and neutron to grow together in entirely undocumented ways. | 01:45 |
| lifeless | so for the vision thing, there's several lyers. There's a product vision | 01:45 |
| lifeless | and theres a technical how its built vision | 01:45 |
| marun | Isn't the product vision foundational? | 01:45 |
| lifeless | and there's the social how we play together and collaborate thing | 01:45 |
| marun | I mean, if we're not focused on a result like 'deliver software', what value does any other vision bring? | 01:46 |
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| lifeless | well | 01:46 |
| lifeless | we've built a social structure where lots of orgs feel comfortable working upstream | 01:46 |
| lifeless | but I'm very sure they'll all give different answers about what the product means to them | 01:47 |
| marun | I think without a shared product vision, we're done. | 01:47 |
| lifeless | is it the basis for a product of their own? Something they sell add-ons for? ... | 01:47 |
| marun | I don't care that it means different things to different companies. | 01:47 |
| marun | If we can't agree on what's important upstream in the large, what's the point?: | 01:48 |
| lifeless | I'd say we have a product vision for that much | 01:48 |
| marun | I'm not sure we do | 01:48 |
| dougwig | lifeless: where is it? what is it? | 01:48 |
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| gus | marun: what might a vision statement look like? If it's too vague ("make some software, maybe") then it isn't very useful, and if it's too specific ("implement exactly this") then it isn't long-lasting, or adaptive. | 01:49 |
| marun | gus: like anything, a vision needs to evolve | 01:49 |
| gus | perhaps this is why many free software projects (start by) copying/reimplementing something else - "make whatever $they're making" is probably quite an effective vision statement. | 01:50 |
| lifeless | dougwig: I'm not sure. I meant more in the sense of shared context, not a written document. | 01:50 |
| marun | lifeless: I don't think it exists, really. | 01:50 |
| lifeless | ok, so we should write one down | 01:50 |
| gus | (as in: "make an aws clone" might not be such a terrible directive) | 01:50 |
| marun | lifeless: If it did, most projects wouldn't feel so comfortable ignoring user experience and quality in general. | 01:50 |
| lifeless | marun: hahahahahahaha. no, thats totally different :) | 01:50 |
| marun | lifeless: I don't think it is, frankly. | 01:51 |
| dougwig | gus: there has to be a middle line between "build some software" and "make an AngryBirdsAsAService clone". | 01:51 |
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| marun | gus: except we're not exactly building for public cloud anymore | 01:51 |
| dougwig | lifeless: i'd agree on writing it down. even the process of doing that would result in some of the leadership gains we've been referencing. if such a beast could even be consensus created in our governance. | 01:51 |
| dougwig | (which might be an enlightening output of its own.) | 01:52 |
| gus | dougwig/marun: yeah agreed - I'm just not sure how to describe what we _are_ building ;) | 01:52 |
| marun | gus: private cloud :) | 01:52 |
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| marun | lifeless: I don't think it's as simple as writing it down | 01:52 |
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| dougwig | what's a private cloud? ;-) | 01:52 |
| marun | lifeless: we need enough people with influence to agree on direction | 01:53 |
| marun | lifeless: and then promote that direction mercilessly at the project level | 01:53 |
| lifeless | marun: IFF we actually don't agree. | 01:53 |
| marun | lifeless: either that or refactor our social contract entirely, but that seems all but impossible (and probably undesirable) | 01:53 |
| dougwig | marun: have to start somewhere. | 01:53 |
| lifeless | I'll noodle around some prose this week | 01:54 |
| marun | it has to be something that people actually agree on | 01:54 |
| dougwig | lifeless: i'd be interested in seeing what you come up with. | 01:54 |
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| marun | I'd be interested in seeing, too | 01:55 |
| lifeless | my current openstack goal is to try and get some fundamentals in our architecture fixed | 01:55 |
| openstackgerrit | Kevin Benton proposed openstack/neutron: Only call get_engine().pool.dispose if _FACADE https://review.openstack.org/165364 | 01:55 |
| lifeless | one challenge is that we're solving stuff via how low hanging it is at the moment | 01:56 |
| marun | lifeless: that certainly is ambitious | 01:56 |
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| lifeless | marun: it is | 01:56 |
| marun | Without some form of effective developer education, we are constrained to lcd right now | 01:56 |
| lifeless | marun: but fragility and failure-during-change was a huge huge huge cost to tripleo | 01:56 |
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| marun | It doesn't matter how smart you or anyone else is, and what kind of wonderful approaches you can apply, if developers can't maintain them due to a lack of experience/training/etc | 01:57 |
| gus | of course the other approach is to not have a shared vision, and to instead make it easy to all go our separate ways. I think that means more+smaller projects (neutron in particular could probably be exploded into half a dozen actually separate projects); and we dismantle everything that creates the false "in vs out" dichotomy - no free tickets to summit, turn openstack.org into a generic software project hosting site (with | 01:57 |
| gus | fewer editorial restrictions on eligibility), etc | 01:57 |
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| marun | gus: the coordination overhead is huge even for the macro splits we are currently attempting | 01:57 |
| lifeless | gus: yah | 01:57 |
| marun | gus: we'd have to find more effective ways of sharing code / libraries than we have now, at the least | 01:58 |
| lifeless | marun: so we have in principle a mentoring program at the moment | 01:58 |
| lifeless | marun: but we also have about 0 data, which reminds me, I was going to fix that. | 01:58 |
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| gus | marun: does it become easier if we just try less hard? Eg: "arms length" projects wouldn't have to agree on global-requirements. | 01:58 |
| marun | gus: we'd end up with duplication of effort if we didn't coordinate. maybe it's a cost worth paying, we'd have to see. | 01:59 |
| marun | gus: certainly being tied to each other so tightly via co-gating is not working in anyone's favor | 01:59 |
| gus | I guess then the "openstack distros" become more important, because assembling a set of projects to work together will be harder. | 01:59 |
| marun | lifeless: I think we need more than mentorship | 02:00 |
| marun | lifeless: it doesn't scale very well | 02:00 |
| marun | lifeless: have you heard of software carpentry? | 02:01 |
| lifeless | I have | 02:01 |
| marun | I heard greg talk at last year's pycon, I found it fascinating | 02:01 |
| lifeless | I have heard great things about it; though I thought it was aimed mainly at scientists who need more programming skill... | 02:01 |
| marun | I think we need something like that but tailored to our new contributors rather than scientists | 02:01 |
| gus | A lot of the current pressures are of our own making - right now it really does have material effects on an individual if their project is considered "part of openstack". | 02:02 |
| marun | gus: the big tent may break that :/ | 02:02 |
| marun | lifeless: Nick Coughlin attended one of the train-the-trainers sessions for sc last year iirc | 02:02 |
| marun | lifeless: He might have some insight into whether/how we could apply it to openstack | 02:02 |
| marun | lifeless: Most impressive about the program as it exists for scientists is the rigor with which they optimize the learning experience | 02:03 |
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| marun | lifeless: Knowing the social tricks to use on people to get them to care, to participate | 02:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron: Reorganize unit test tree https://review.openstack.org/158811 | 02:04 |
| marun | yay! | 02:04 |
| marun | 1 down... | 02:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron: Merge open source plugin test code modules https://review.openstack.org/171004 | 02:05 |
| marun | 2 down... | 02:05 |
| mestery | lol | 02:05 |
| marun | HenryG, armax: one more to go! https://review.openstack.org/#/c/171005/ | 02:05 |
| mestery | marun: I beat you too it and already poked armax | 02:07 |
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| marun | mestery: awesome! | 02:07 |
| mestery | 171005 is in the merge queu :P | 02:07 |
| mestery | May the gods have mercy on our souls ;) | 02:07 |
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| marun | mestery: yes, the 3rd party ci is likely to have a bad day :/ | 02:08 |
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| mestery | rofl | 02:08 |
| lifeless | so the developer training thing is interesting | 02:08 |
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| HenryG | marun: already fixing ours | 02:08 |
| lifeless | but is it that we have lots of lcd devs | 02:08 |
| HenryG | marun: it's not hard | 02:08 |
| lifeless | or lots of new-to-python-but-god-they-can-crank-out-C devs | 02:08 |
| lifeless | or ... | 02:08 |
| marun | HenryG: glad to hear :) | 02:08 |
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| marun | lifeless: we could tailor the development to the broad strokes of common pain points (like 'doesn't know python') | 02:09 |
| marun | lifeless: and then use mentoring to do the rest | 02:09 |
| kevinbenton | marun: can we add requirements just for the functional tests? | 02:09 |
| lifeless | marun: what language would we use instead? | 02:09 |
| marun | kevinbenton: we can | 02:09 |
| kevinbenton | marun: where do they live? | 02:10 |
| marun | lifeless: I'm saying, we could do intro to python | 02:10 |
| marun | kevinbenton: devstack | 02:10 |
| kevinbenton | marun: just test-requirements.txt ? | 02:10 |
| lifeless | marun: oh, heh. Thats much less exciting :) | 02:10 |
| marun | kevinbenton: or are you talking about python-only? | 02:10 |
| marun | lifeless: well, less exciting but maybe necessary | 02:10 |
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| marun | lifeless: it's more costly to teach python in review, that's for sure | 02:10 |
| kevinbenton | marun: i think i can get by python only | 02:10 |
| marun | kevinbenton: then yeah, test-requirements.txt | 02:11 |
| marun | kevinbenton: oh! | 02:11 |
| marun | actually, we have functional-only test-requirements | 02:11 |
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| marun | https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/tests/functional/requirements.txt | 02:11 |
| marun | for stuff the unit tests don't need | 02:11 |
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| marun | lifeless: but seriously, every project has common pain points for new contributors | 02:12 |
| marun | lifeless: faq and other docs could help to some degree | 02:12 |
| marun | lifeless: but having an intro that was more than mechanical 'how to submit' would be helpful. | 02:13 |
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| amuller | marun: why would openstack training or mentoring teach Python? There's so many great resources in different mediums that allow you to learn Python | 02:18 |
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| amuller | There's a million different OpenStack specific subjects a new contributor has to learn | 02:18 |
| marun | amuller: python is still a pain point | 02:19 |
| marun | amuller: I think any training regime would have to at least point people at the right resources | 02:19 |
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| amuller | yeah that I agree with, make sure people are learning from the right sources has a lot of value | 02:19 |
| amuller | marun: btw only 8 notifications from Jenkins about merge conflict, that's not *that* bad :) | 02:20 |
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| marun | :) | 02:20 |
| marun | that doesn't include out-of-tree, though :( | 02:20 |
| marun | with luck, nobody has unit tests out of the tree :) | 02:20 |
| marun | but that would also have obvious downsides ;( | 02:20 |
| marun | really, we need a test framework that can consume stuff from outside of the tree | 02:21 |
| amuller | fixing out of tree unit tests... http://memegenerator.net/instance/23637168 | 02:21 |
| marun | heh | 02:21 |
| marun | to be fair, we do need validation that, say, a plugin or extension outside of the tree works with neutron | 02:22 |
| marun | but we also need better testing to be able to say the same thing about in-tree stuff | 02:22 |
| * marun ducks | 02:22 | |
| HenryG | marun: Is this file in the right place? neutron/tests/unit/_test_extension_portbindings.py | 02:24 |
| marun | HenryG: I've ignored those 'helpers' for now | 02:24 |
| marun | HenryG: they aren't actually tests - they can't run on their own | 02:24 |
| marun | HenryG: they're test helpers | 02:24 |
| HenryG | marun: ok | 02:25 |
| marun | HenryG: iirc that file isn't even used, lemme check that assumption | 02:25 |
| HenryG | marun: it is used | 02:25 |
| marun | HenryG: correct, by a bunch of plugins | 02:25 |
| HenryG | marun: and by external repos too | 02:25 |
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| marun | HenryG: I figure it's a corner case we can address in lemming | 02:26 |
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| marun | HenryG: better separation between test and supporting code | 02:26 |
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| marun | HenryG: it probably does belong in unit/plugins at the least, though | 02:28 |
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| HenryG | marun: neutron/tests/unit/plugins/extensions/common/helpers/... :) | 02:28 |
| marun | oy | 02:29 |
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| HenryG | just kidding | 02:29 |
| marun | :) | 02:29 |
| marun | the work on the functional side is proceeding without much in the way of high-level intent | 02:29 |
| marun | I'm hoping we can clean that up next cycle. Things should be easier on test developers, and opaque framework/fixture just makes it harder. | 02:30 |
| HenryG | "high-level intent"? | 02:30 |
| marun | coordination | 02:30 |
| marun | 'what are we trying to do?' | 02:30 |
| marun | it's mostly reacting to what we have | 02:31 |
| openstackgerrit | shihanzhang proposed openstack/neutron: Fix 'router_gateway' port status can't be updated https://review.openstack.org/151501 | 02:32 |
| marun | but we are making progress, don't get me wrong. We need to do a better job of presenting a coherent set of tools to those that need them. | 02:32 |
| marun | Docs are definitely a part of it. | 02:33 |
| kevinbenton | marun: what do i need on my machine to fulfill this? ImportError: No module named ovs.db | 02:35 |
| marun | kevinbenton: you're trying to run the functional suite? | 02:36 |
| kevinbenton | marun: yes | 02:36 |
| marun | https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/TESTING.rst#with-tox | 02:36 |
| marun | you'll need to run the configure script | 02:36 |
| * marun needs to revise the TESTING.rst so he can link to that section directly | 02:37 | |
| kevinbenton | oh okay | 02:37 |
| marun | kevinbenton: it requires devstack | 02:37 |
| marun | kevinbenton: if the test in question doesn't require sudo, you might be able to get away with tox -e functional | 02:37 |
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| kevinbenton | marun: i have already run devstack and this is in a working environment. is there no way to use what's already there? | 02:37 |
| marun | kevinbenton: but if it has os dependencies you'll need to run the script | 02:37 |
| marun | kevinbenton: you can reuse most o fit | 02:37 |
| marun | kevinbenton: run the configure script without '-i' | 02:38 |
| armax | amuller: ping | 02:38 |
| marun | kevinbenton: it will configure the db and install the python dep for ovs | 02:38 |
| amuller | armax: yessir | 02:38 |
| marun | kevinbenton: https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/tools/configure_for_func_testing.sh#L210 | 02:38 |
| kevinbenton | marun: ok | 02:38 |
| armax | amuller: I’d need your help in addressing an RC1 bug | 02:38 |
| armax | I know it’s getting pretty late your end | 02:39 |
| amuller | the ARP thing? | 02:39 |
| marun | kevinbenton: if you're installing post-devstack it does the db, rootwrap and ovs config | 02:39 |
| armax | amuller: ya, it’s https://review.openstack.org/#/c/170323/ | 02:39 |
| kevinbenton | marun: ugh, now back down this same path of not having the correct database password :( | 02:39 |
| armax | I wrote a functional test and I am about to post the patch | 02:39 |
| marun | kevinbenton: it should reuse the db password you have set in localrc | 02:39 |
| kevinbenton | marun: i gtg for now, will just do a clean system later tonight | 02:39 |
| armax | amuller: if you get a chance and eyeball it, I’d appreciate it | 02:39 |
| marun | kevinbenton: ok | 02:40 |
| kevinbenton | marun: i use local.conf | 02:40 |
| amuller | armax: anything specific you want from me? | 02:40 |
| marun | kevinbenton: same thing | 02:40 |
| armax | amuller: no, just a review | 02:40 |
| kevinbenton | marun: it didn't honor that | 02:40 |
| marun | kevinbenton: the script loads stackrc which should pull in either | 02:40 |
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| amuller | armax: looks like Swami needs to augment the functional test to check that the ARP table in the router namespace has the expected entries, should be fairly simple | 02:41 |
| armax | amuller: because of the RC1 deadline, hence my urge to poke you here | 02:41 |
| amuller | armax: I had one concern, let me look at the bug | 02:41 |
| marun | kevinbenton: you can probably try setting MYSQL/DATABASE_PASSWORD in the shell before you invoke | 02:41 |
| armax | amuller: the patch doesn’t have a test right | 02:41 |
| armax | now | 02:41 |
| amuller | yeah that's what I said | 02:42 |
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| amuller | armax: Swami said this in the bug report: " | 02:42 |
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| amuller | Assaf yes the "RPC message is received by the agent" when you spawn an new VM on a Compute. | 02:42 |
| amuller | Most of the times I do see that it immediately returns with "ri.router_info" not found. | 02:42 |
| kevinbenton | marun: where does that ovs lib come from? can i just install that in my tox env and call it a day or will a bunch of other stuff fall apart? | 02:42 |
| amuller | " | 02:42 |
| armax | amuller: ok | 02:43 |
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| marun | kevinbenton: as per the script, you can manually perform the necessary steps | 02:43 |
| marun | kevinbenton: I'd recommend commenting out the _install_databases call | 02:43 |
| armax | amuller: have you looked at the last comments from carl on the patch itself? | 02:44 |
| marun | kevinbenton: the 2 steps in the file for ovs use is installing python-openvswitch and setting permissions on the port | 02:44 |
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| marun | https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/tools/configure_for_func_testing.sh#L224 | 02:44 |
| armax | amuller it looks like the snafus is caused by the fact that we were populating the arp cache conditionally on the existence of the gw port | 02:44 |
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| amuller | armax: if the RPC method in the agent returns because the router is not found, Swami said that in the comment I quoted... So the RPC method is called on the agent, but the router is not scheduled on the agent yet, because of the race condition in the server I outlined in the bug report | 02:45 |
| amuller | so any changes you make to the agent will only be a partial fix | 02:45 |
| amuller | unless I'm missing something | 02:45 |
| armax | amuller: comment #? | 02:45 |
| amuller | armax: I made comment 5 then he made comment 7 | 02:46 |
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| armax | amuller: to be honest I am a bit confused by all these comments | 02:47 |
| amuller | armax: So he said the agents do receive the message, but from his response it looks like sometimes the agent did not manage to configure the router yet (So it doesn't exist in self.router_info cache), then it receives the ARP RPC and doesn't do anything | 02:47 |
| amuller | and there's no fallback there | 02:47 |
| armax | amuller: all I can understand is carl’s comment #8 | 02:47 |
| armax | which is what swami’s fix is about | 02:47 |
| amuller | armax: OK, I'm saying I think there may be another bug, even with Swami's fix | 02:48 |
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| armax | amuller: ok, that’s not what I am asking your help for :) | 02:48 |
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| armax | amuller: at least not right now | 02:48 |
| amuller | armax: You asked me to review, I'm saying Swami's fix is partial | 02:49 |
| armax | amuller: true, let me be more specific: swami didnt add a test | 02:49 |
| armax | amuller: and he’s been off sick today | 02:49 |
| amuller | armax: ok | 02:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sanjeev Rampal proposed openstack/neutron: Fixes description strong for the config parameter metadata_workers. This will get extracted into the documentation automatically https://review.openstack.org/171026 | 02:50 |
| armax | amuller: I am pushing a functional test alongside this patch; the lack of tests is the reason of most -1 | 02:50 |
| amuller | armax: hrmph, I'm currently trying to help on Mike on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141114/12 | 02:50 |
| amuller | and it's already 11pm, I'll see what I can do about Swami's patch | 02:50 |
| armax | amuller: I was going to ask you if you could check whether the functional test is up to your standards | 02:50 |
| amuller | armax: oh ok | 02:50 |
| armax | amuller: agreed | 02:50 |
| amuller | armax: then push it :) | 02:50 |
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| armax | amuller: I am not asking you to do it now | 02:51 |
| armax | amuller: but you are 4 hours ahead of me | 02:51 |
| amuller | armax: I think we can live with just checking that the number of entries in the ARP table is as expected | 02:51 |
| armax | so if you get a chance tomorrow | 02:51 |
| amuller | that's the minimum | 02:51 |
| armax | it’d be good | 02:51 |
| amuller | sure | 02:51 |
| armax | I did more than that | 02:51 |
| * amuller awards one brownie point to Armando | 02:51 | |
| armax | let me clean this up and post if for review | 02:52 |
| armax | amuller: yum brownie | 02:52 |
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| armax | amuller: k, won’t hold you longer | 02:52 |
| openstackgerrit | Sanjeev Rampal proposed openstack/neutron: Fixes description string for the config parameter metadata_workers. This will get extracted into the documentation automatically https://review.openstack.org/171026 | 02:53 |
| armax | yamamoto: ping | 02:56 |
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| armax | yamamoto: please have a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/170939/ | 02:56 |
| armax | yamamoto: as this may affect you | 02:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | Armando Migliaccio proposed openstack/neutron: Fix dynamic arp populate error for dvr routers https://review.openstack.org/170323 | 02:59 |
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| HenryG | armax: still around? | 03:05 |
| armax | yes | 03:06 |
| HenryG | armax: Danes DB issue is eating away at me. I don't understand it. :( | 03:07 |
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| armax | HenryG: what’s issue? | 03:07 |
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| HenryG | armax: The deadlock provoked by the dhcpv6 scenario test | 03:08 |
| amuller | armax: Can you add the check to _dvr_router_lifecycle? | 03:08 |
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| amuller | armax: Adding a new test for every check is not going to scale well, those tests take a while to execute | 03:08 |
| armax | amuller: can do, so long as the setup is the same though | 03:08 |
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| amuller | armax: I think you can make it work | 03:09 |
| armax | amuller: iirc that test does set up the gateway for the router too | 03:10 |
| armax | amuller: and I wanted to add a test that indeed failed without swami’s fix | 03:10 |
| armax | amuller: hence I went the route you saw | 03:10 |
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| yamamoto | armax: thank you. will look | 03:10 |
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| armax | amuller: tweaking the existing test code sounds like more trouble than it’s worth to be honest | 03:12 |
| armax | amuller: the test took only 2 seconds to run on my box | 03:12 |
| armax | amuller: not sure if we’re at the inflection point where speed is really a problem, but I’ll look into it | 03:13 |
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| amuller | armax: yeah I forgot the rootwrap daemon really cut those down | 03:13 |
| amuller | and the DVR tests don't have any wait_untils that the HA router tests do... | 03:13 |
| amuller | you can forget about my comment then | 03:14 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron: Reorganize plugin test modules https://review.openstack.org/171005 | 03:15 |
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| armax | amuller: anyway it’s a good point, I’ll look more closely | 03:15 |
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| armax | amuller but I’d rather make the patch easier to digest for now, if that’s okay with you | 03:15 |
| amuller | it is | 03:16 |
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| openstackgerrit | pritesh proposed openstack/neutron: Moving VLAN Transparency support from core to extension https://review.openstack.org/169569 | 03:25 |
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| yamamoto | major reorg of tests are done? ie. should i rebase my patches or wait? | 03:35 |
| armax | yamamoto: you can start | 03:36 |
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| yamamoto | armax: thank you | 03:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | YAMAMOTO Takashi proposed openstack/neutron: linuxbridge UT: Fix a regression of the recent ip_lib change https://review.openstack.org/165291 | 03:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | Assaf Muller proposed openstack/neutron: Update port bindings for master router https://review.openstack.org/141114 | 03:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Assaf Muller proposed openstack/neutron: Remove tests from HA routers test framework https://review.openstack.org/171040 | 03:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | pritesh proposed openstack/neutron: Moving VLAN Transparency support from core to extension https://review.openstack.org/169569 | 03:59 |
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| openstackgerrit | Henry Gessau proposed openstack/neutron: Allow unit tests to be run independently https://review.openstack.org/169789 | 04:04 |
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| openstackgerrit | YAMAMOTO Takashi proposed openstack/neutron: OVS-agent: Separate ovs-ofctl using code as a driver https://review.openstack.org/160245 | 04:26 |
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| veena | Hi, please provide the reference for localrc, stackrc and other config files to install devstack Juno and enable neutron with sriov funtionality | 05:58 |
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| veena | irenab: Hi, please provide the reference for localrc, stackrc and other config files to install devstack Juno and enable neutron with sriov funtionality | 06:22 |
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| irenab | veena: hi, I am not dealing with SRIOV for some time now. Can you please check with moshele? He may help you with this. | 07:11 |
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| moshele | veena: hi | 07:14 |
| moshele | irenab: what is the problem ? | 07:16 |
| irenab | moshele: veena is looking for a help with devstack configuration to enable SRIOV. I hoped you can help him | 07:17 |
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| irenab | ^^Hi, please provide the reference for localrc, stackrc and other config files to install devstack Juno and enable neutron with sriov funtionality | 07:19 |
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| moshele | irenab: sure I am here to help :) | 07:22 |
| irenab | moshele: :-) | 07:23 |
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| openstackgerrit | pritesh proposed openstack/neutron: Moving VLAN Transparency support from core to extension https://review.openstack.org/169569 | 07:23 |
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| pritesh | salv-orlando: hi | 07:26 |
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| salv-orlando | hi pritesh | 07:28 |
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| pritesh | salv-orlando: thanks for the review of #169569, I added todo for both items which you mentioned, will try to handle this in a separate follow up patch, if you are ok with it. | 07:29 |
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| moshele | veena: here is an example of local.conf for devstack http://pastebin.com/kKdXjbpB if you need help please free to ping me | 07:31 |
| salv-orlando | pritesh: for the config option, I believe it should be fairly easy to get rid of it. anyway, thanks for your quick reply. I will wait for opinions from amotoki and armax regarding whether the patch is ok as it is as they've followed it from the beginning | 07:32 |
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| amotoki | pritesh: will check it again in a couple of hours | 07:33 |
| pritesh | salv-orlando: np, ok, will try to get the config options handled, sure will wait for their opinions. thanks. | 07:33 |
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| salv-orlando | pritesh: cool thanks | 07:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Edgar Magana proposed openstack/neutron: Add missing config parameters in neutron.conf https://review.openstack.org/171059 | 07:41 |
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| veena | irenab, moshele: Thanks for the reference. | 07:50 |
| veena | moshele: Can I use that localrc file to install Icehouse release? | 07:51 |
| veena | moshele: or it is specific to Juno? | 07:52 |
| irenab | veena: specific for Juno | 07:52 |
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| veena | irenab: What changes do I need to make if I want to use it for Icehouse? I need to check "neutron port-create" on the physical network connected to SRIOV nic | 07:53 |
| irenab | veena: for the Icehouse SRIOV was supported only via mlnx Mechanism Driver, which is different from sriovnicswitch Mech. Driver. | 07:53 |
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| irenab | veena: if you insist on Icehouse, you need different devstack setup and it will only work on Mellanox NICs. | 07:55 |
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| veena | irenab: I have added the sriovnicagent and mech_sriov to the Icehouse code base. Basically copied from Juno and made some changes related to oslo.messaging. | 07:56 |
| openstackgerrit | Edgar Magana proposed openstack/neutron: Add missing config parameters in neutron.conf https://review.openstack.org/171059 | 07:56 |
| irenab | veena: there are also nova changes that need to be present, and this support was added in Juno | 07:57 |
| veena | irenab: I have sent you an email with the details | 07:57 |
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| veena | irenab: I'm supposed to use only Icehouse and not upgrade to Juno. But get the SRIOV functionality. So am doing back porting of code from Juno to Icehouse. | 07:58 |
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| irenab | veena: please check with moshele, maybe he can help you with the setup and your use case. You must have nova support for SRIOV that was added in Juno | 07:59 |
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| veena | Sure irenab. Will check with him. Thanks for the reference. | 08:00 |
| veena | moshele: Hi | 08:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | ShaoRan Xiao proposed openstack/neutron: Definition of the Virtual Network Performance interface Implements:blueprint virtual-network-performance-monitor https://review.openstack.org/164814 | 08:12 |
| anteaya | emagana: sorry to remove you from the agenda, I had just gone by the date posted which was stale | 08:13 |
| anteaya | emagana: thanks for catching that | 08:13 |
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| moshele | veena: hi | 08:40 |
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| moshele | veena: please contact me for the issue my mail is moshele@mellanox.com | 08:42 |
| veena | Hi moshele, I'm working to get SRIOV functionality in Icehouse release. I see from the blueprint that code enchancement for neutron was done during Icehouse | 08:42 |
| veena | moshele: So I'm backporting the nova and neutron code form Juno to Icehouse | 08:43 |
| veena | moshele: Okay, will drop you a mail | 08:43 |
| moshele | veena: ok what are the issues? | 08:44 |
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| veena | moshele: I added sriovnicagent and mech_driver to the neutron/plugin/ml2 code base. And want to test the functionality. What changes in localrc file do I need to make it get working in Icehouse? | 08:45 |
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| moshele | veen: you need to configure the pci_passthrough_whitelist | 08:48 |
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| moshele | veena: see http://pastebin.com/kKdXjbpB | 08:48 |
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| veena | moshele: This localrc file will be same for both Juno and Icehouse? | 08:50 |
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| moshele | veena: do you have [[post-config|$NOVA_CONF]] | 08:51 |
| moshele | [DEFAULT] | 08:51 |
| moshele | pci_passthrough_whitelist ={"'"address"'":"'"*:02:00.*"'","'"physical_network"'":"'"default"'"} in you local.conf | 08:51 |
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| veena | moshele: No, I didn't add that. I haven't yet done the nova code change. So didn't add nova config changes | 08:52 |
| moshele | veena: the nova change is import you should do it as well | 08:53 |
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| veena | moshele: Okay. Is there any way I that I can test neutron changes only? I mean, functional testing | 08:54 |
| moshele | veena: no you need both | 08:54 |
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| veena | moshele, Okay. I update the nova code also. But there are many files to be changed as I see in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/107123/ and virt/libvirt/driver.py. Is there any patch that's been already written to get the SRIOV working with Icehouse? | 08:57 |
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| moshele | veena: not that I am aware of | 08:58 |
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| veena | moshele: Okay. Whom should I contact in Nova team to understand this? | 09:00 |
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| moshele | veena: I think you should cerry-pick https://review.openstack.org/#/c/107123 and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99043/,but I am not sure it will be trivial you can contact baoli for nova changes | 09:03 |
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| veena | moshele:okay. Are there any design doc or code change logs or any references related to SRIOV changes? If you could share, it'll be helpful | 09:04 |
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| moshele | veena: this is blue print https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86606/25/specs/juno/pci-passthrough-sriov.rst | 09:06 |
| veena | moshele: Thanks for the link. These are exactly what I was looking for, but these include changes only in pci module. Seems like libvirt/driver and few other files need to be changed. | 09:06 |
| irenab | veena: you can see all related patches linked here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/pci-passthrough-sriov | 09:08 |
| veena | moshele: Okay. the blueprint explains it very well. Looks like baoli is not on IRC now. Will contact him when he is online | 09:09 |
| veena | Thanks irenab, I think the link you shared covers everything. | 09:09 |
| veena | moshele, irenab: Will continue doing the nova changes and then test. If successful, will try to submit a patch that can be used to get SRIOV working with Icehouse release :) | 09:10 |
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| openstackgerrit | Yatin Kumbhare proposed openstack/neutron: opencontrail extension support https://review.openstack.org/145290 | 09:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | Elena Ezhova proposed openstack/neutron: [WIP]: Add handling of SIGHUP - multiprocess mode https://review.openstack.org/161732 | 09:39 |
| openstackgerrit | Elena Ezhova proposed openstack/neutron: [WIP] Add SIGHUP support: single process mode https://review.openstack.org/170905 | 09:39 |
| openstackgerrit | Elena Ezhova proposed openstack/neutron: Sync service from oslo-incubator https://review.openstack.org/167974 | 09:39 |
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| openstackgerrit | Romil Gupta proposed openstack/neutron: Move values for network_type to plugins.common.constants.py https://review.openstack.org/166879 | 09:56 |
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| HenryG | salv-orlando: ping | 11:06 |
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| salv-orlando | good morning HenryG | 11:06 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: about your last comment here, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/170968/2/neutron/db/db_base_plugin_v2.py | 11:07 |
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| salv-orlando | the DbReference error catch clause? | 11:07 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: yes | 11:08 |
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| HenryG | salv-orlando: it is very easy to reproduce | 11:08 |
| openstackgerrit | Darragh O'Reilly proposed openstack/neutron: Fix dhcp _test_sync_state_helper asserting calls wrong https://review.openstack.org/159756 | 11:08 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG: how that can be reproduced? | 11:08 |
| salv-orlando | I am actually more interested in understanding why the introduction of the lock introduces it | 11:08 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: no, it happens even easier without the lock | 11:09 |
| salv-orlando | ah ok. | 11:09 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: see end of description here, https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1440192 | 11:09 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1440183 in neutron "duplicate for #1440192 DBDeadlock on subnet allocation" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Dane LeBlanc (leblancd) | 11:09 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: The lock removes the deadlock, but we are still left with the FK integrity error | 11:10 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG: and we do not have a real clue to the reason which is causing the fk violation? | 11:11 |
| salv-orlando | I am just trying to understand if the issue is really a concurrent delete as described here | 11:11 |
| salv-orlando | or something else - like a problem with sqlalchemy and transaction buffering. - and therefore this fix would just hide a problem | 11:12 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: The ipallocations has a fk on ports id | 11:12 |
| openstackgerrit | Elena Ezhova proposed openstack/neutron: [WIP] Add SIGHUP support: single process mode https://review.openstack.org/170905 | 11:12 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG: I will quote Dr. McCoy from Star Trek.... "Tell me something I do not know" ;) | 11:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Elena Ezhova proposed openstack/neutron: [WIP] Add SIGHUP support: single process mode https://review.openstack.org/170905 | 11:13 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: sorry :) Yeah, I have no real clue, or even an imaginary one | 11:14 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: I suggested to try the expire (line 1366) and that reduced the issue's occurrence rate but did not eliminate it. | 11:15 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG: the point is that I would like to understand how it is possible that the port to which the allocation refers is deleted before the same transaction that creates the port completes | 11:16 |
| salv-orlando | either we have split that transaction and we did not realize that | 11:16 |
| salv-orlando | or the port is not actually deleted. | 11:16 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: Well, I think the tempest NetworksTestDHCPv6 tests emit concurrent create and delete requests | 11:17 |
| HenryG | actually I know they do | 11:18 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: If you read some of Armando's comments he thinks the test is rather awful | 11:19 |
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| HenryG | salv-orlando: You can see previous attempts at addressing the issue here https://review.openstack.org/170690 and here https://review.openstack.org/170611 | 11:21 |
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| salv-orlando | HenryG: how can you concurrently delete a port that you are creating? | 11:23 |
| salv-orlando | did we switched to async operations? | 11:23 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: no :) | 11:23 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: the code in question is during subnet create | 11:23 |
| salv-orlando | so we do not delete concurrently the port, but the subnet? | 11:24 |
| HenryG | we are in subnet create when the test is deleting ports, I believe | 11:24 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG: I will look at the logs myself, there is something that's not yet entirely clear to me | 11:24 |
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| openstackgerrit | shihanzhang proposed openstack/neutron: Fix 'router_gateway' port status can't be updated https://review.openstack.org/151501 | 11:32 |
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| ajo | trying to fix a bug in the gate: http://i.imgur.com/TfB1Cpv.gif | 11:43 |
| ajo | sorry, I couldn't resist X) | 11:43 |
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| sc68cal | ajo: haha I was doing the same thing | 12:09 |
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| ajo | :-) | 12:09 |
| sc68cal | ajo: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/171071/ | 12:09 |
| sc68cal | if you haven't seen already :) | 12:09 |
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| ajo | woops, I didn't :), I was doing something else, but I found the gif very funny when thinking of fixing gate bugs | 12:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | Elena Ezhova proposed openstack/neutron: Handle SIGHUP: neutron-server (multiprocess) and metadata agent https://review.openstack.org/161732 | 12:57 |
| openstackgerrit | Elena Ezhova proposed openstack/neutron: Refactor socket ssl wrapping https://review.openstack.org/171178 | 12:57 |
| openstackgerrit | Elena Ezhova proposed openstack/neutron: Handle SIGHUP in dhcp and l3 agents https://review.openstack.org/171179 | 12:57 |
| openstackgerrit | Mike Kolesnik proposed openstack/neutron: Update port bindings for master router https://review.openstack.org/141114 | 12:57 |
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| flaviof_ | hi folks. Not sure if this is the best venue to talk about this, but in my latest devstack install (from clean slate) I've been noticing that AMQP has been very flaky: https://gist.github.com/85b6bf571d487ada0597 | 13:24 |
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| flaviof_ | I'm trying to find out if this is a known issue; or my erlang/heart is trying to tell me there is something wrong with my localrc. Any feedback is greatly appreciated | 13:25 |
| flaviof_ | AMQP server on 192.168.50.20:5672 is unreachable: Too many heartbeats missed. Trying again in 1 seconds. | 13:25 |
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| ajo | flaviof_, recently the AMQP heartbeat patch was introduced to oslo.messaging | 13:31 |
| ajo | flaviof_ not sure if the implementation has any issue or it's just a matter of tweaking the settings? | 13:31 |
| ajo | if there are settings, let me check | 13:31 |
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| flaviof | ajo: ack. thanks! I saw a link that seems to describe a similar issue online, but there is no answers for it: https://ask.openstack.org/en/question/64590/nova-submodules-cant-connect-to-rabbitmq-server/ | 13:32 |
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| flaviof | ajo: this is what I get when doing nova-cert: https://gist.github.com/d87c9783a4512d9a5ab2 | 13:33 |
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| gsagie | Is there any known problem with the CI tests? my reviews keep failing for unrelated tests (so it seems to me) | 13:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Elena Ezhova proposed openstack/neutron: [WIP] Handle SIGHUP: neutron-server (single process mode) https://review.openstack.org/170905 | 13:36 |
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| HenryG | ajo: ping | 13:38 |
| openstackgerrit | Romil Gupta proposed openstack/neutron: Vxlan UDP port value should be updated in neutron DB https://review.openstack.org/153891 | 13:38 |
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| HenryG | ajo: are you OK with https://review.openstack.org/170328 as it is for kilo? I noticed you did not give +1 | 13:40 |
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| ajo | HenryG, let me check | 13:40 |
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| ajo | HenryG right, patchset change from my last vote, I thought it was voted | 13:41 |
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| ajo | HenryG, let me check the differences and I will +1 | 13:41 |
| mestery | ajo: Thanks! | 13:41 |
| mestery | HenryG: Thank you too! | 13:41 |
| mestery | One more off the list as I head into the RC meeting with ttx. :) | 13:41 |
| HenryG | ajo: thanks, note a follow-up bug is filed | 13:41 |
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| ajo | HenryG, LGTM, Brian took my last "pedant nit / suggestions" :) thanks haleyb ! ;) | 13:43 |
| HenryG | thanks ajo | 13:43 |
| haleyb | yes, i got that bug this morning :( | 13:43 |
| ajo | woops | 13:43 |
| ajo | thanks HenryG ! | 13:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Pavel Bondar proposed openstack/neutron: IPAM reference driver https://review.openstack.org/150485 | 13:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/neutron: Open Liberty development https://review.openstack.org/171200 | 13:51 |
| mestery | haleyb: lol, sorry about that :) | 13:51 |
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| ajo | mestery, ping, do we have timeslots that "work for everybody" for meetings? I guess not... I'm thinking of the last ML request to offer a "timeslot that works for all" ... ':) | 13:52 |
| mestery | ajo: In a 1:1 with ttx, then neutron meeting, will digest QoS email post that, :) | 13:52 |
| ajo | I guess that's impossible, yet all we can do is maximize the attendance by voting on the time. | 13:52 |
| ajo | mestery, ack ack :) | 13:52 |
| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/neutron-fwaas: Open Liberty development https://review.openstack.org/171202 | 13:52 |
| haleyb | mestery: np, it's a low-hanging fruit kind of bug | 13:53 |
| mestery | haleyb: Exactly, and thanks for jumping on the ipset bug last week! | 13:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/neutron-vpnaas: Open Liberty development https://review.openstack.org/171206 | 13:56 |
| haleyb | mestery: np, it was actually on my "to do" list since i saw it just a week before | 13:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Andrew Boik proposed openstack/neutron: Allow only one IPv4 and one IPv6 fixed IP on router gateway port https://review.openstack.org/167784 | 13:59 |
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| openstackgerrit | Pavel Bondar proposed openstack/neutron: Implement IPAM Driver loader https://review.openstack.org/147479 | 14:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Andrew Boik proposed openstack/neutron: Consider all address scopes in init_l3 https://review.openstack.org/168502 | 14:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Pavel Bondar proposed openstack/neutron: Implement IPAM Driver loader https://review.openstack.org/147479 | 14:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Elena Ezhova proposed openstack/neutron: [WIP] Handle SIGHUP: neutron-server (single process mode) https://review.openstack.org/170905 | 14:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Ed Bak proposed openstack/neutron: Return from check_ports_exist_on_l3agent if no subnet found https://review.openstack.org/154289 | 14:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Gal Sagie proposed openstack/neutron: allow OVSDB connection schema to be configurable https://review.openstack.org/170842 | 14:04 |
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| openstackgerrit | Gal Sagie proposed openstack/neutron: Add OVSDB connection as a parameter to the transaction https://review.openstack.org/170771 | 14:06 |
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| sc68cal | amotoki: for the vlan transparency cleanup, don't we need to remove the vlan attribute from here? https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/db/db_base_plugin_v2.py#L847 | 14:08 |
| sc68cal | I commented as such, and one of the first patchsets did, but subsequent patchsets do not remove that line | 14:08 |
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| amotoki | sc68cal: thanks for pointing this. I missed that. | 14:09 |
| amotoki | sc68cal: checking | 14:10 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/python-neutronclient: Add Neutron subnet-create with subnetpool https://review.openstack.org/165910 | 14:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/python-neutronclient: Allow passing None for subnetpool https://review.openstack.org/168499 | 14:25 |
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| pdb | hi, wondering does anyone know if it's possible to run the openvswitch osvb server on a seperate node and have neutron talk to it via tcp? | 14:27 |
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| openstackgerrit | Mathieu Rohon proposed openstack/neutron: ML2: Change port status only when it's bound to the host https://review.openstack.org/163178 | 14:28 |
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| yamamoto | marun: ping | 14:29 |
| marun | yamamoto: pong | 14:29 |
| marun | from the review, we should be using #!/usr/bin/env bash ? | 14:29 |
| marun | I'm less sure about the version | 14:30 |
| marun | The main things I've found useful about bash vs sh are arrays and string manipulation. | 14:30 |
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| yamamoto | marun: can you give me some advice about UT in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/160245/ ? | 14:30 |
| yamamoto | marun: and FT https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164584/ | 14:30 |
| marun | yamamoto: do you mean actual unit tests, not just what we pretend are unit tests in neutron? | 14:31 |
| yamamoto | i vaguely remember "env bash" has some problems | 14:31 |
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| marun | yamamoto: invoking scripts ad-hoc, calling 'bash script.sh' will work | 14:32 |
| yamamoto | marun: i don't know the difference between them :-) | 14:32 |
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| marun | yamamoto: I can see a potential problem with things like check_unit_test_structure.sh, though, because it is supposed to be called by tox | 14:32 |
| yamamoto | marun: 'bash script.sh' is the safest way sure | 14:33 |
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| marun | yamamoto: should we be invoking in tox.ini, bash 'script'? | 14:33 |
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| marun | yamamoto: i.e. here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158811/10/tox.ini | 14:33 |
| sc68cal | +1 for using env bash | 14:34 |
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| marun | sc68cal: yamamoto thinks that may have problems | 14:34 |
| yamamoto | marun: yes "bash script.sh" makes me happier | 14:34 |
| matrohon | rossella_s : hi | 14:35 |
| sc68cal | marun: oh? | 14:35 |
| yamamoto | marun: i don't remember what exactly problems are though. | 14:35 |
| rossella_s | matrohon: hi | 14:35 |
| matrohon | rossella_s : I'm back to PS4 on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163178/ | 14:35 |
| sc68cal | /usr/bin/env bash is pretty common for locating bash | 14:35 |
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| marun | I'll update the removal patch to fix bash usage. | 14:38 |
| marun | removal -> check removal | 14:38 |
| marun | yamamoto: as to unit test vs non-unit tests... | 14:38 |
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| yamamoto | sc68cal: it's entirely possible i misremember something. | 14:38 |
| marun | yamamoto: unit tests should be targeting a module in isolation, which implies that the code can be tested largely without mocks | 14:39 |
| marun | yamamoto: most of neutron's 'unit tests' are mock-heavy and actually not unit tests | 14:39 |
| sc68cal | yamamoto: no worries, if you happen to recall what it was, do share, I'd be curious to learn more | 14:39 |
| marun | yamamoto: they don't try to isolate functionality under test and attack things like corner cases | 14:39 |
| marun | yamamoto: i.e. they don't provide the kind of comprehensive coverage that unit tests are useful for | 14:39 |
| openstackgerrit | Gal Sagie proposed openstack/neutron: Add OVSDB connection as a parameter to the transaction https://review.openstack.org/170771 | 14:39 |
| rossella_s | matrohon: I still don't understand why the bugs appear...after the port update by nova the port should be bound correctly right? | 14:39 |
| openstackgerrit | John Davidge proposed openstack/neutron: Implement Neutron IPv6 Prefix Delegation https://review.openstack.org/158697 | 14:40 |
| marun | yamamoto: does that make sense? | 14:40 |
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| marun | yamamoto: I'm assuming some examples would be helpful | 14:40 |
| marun | yamamoto: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/160245/34/neutron/tests/unit/plugins/openvswitch/agent/ovs_ofctl/ovs_bridge_test_base.py | 14:41 |
| ajo | ping dougwig :) | 14:41 |
| ajo | are you around? | 14:41 |
| marun | yamahata: so, test_port_drop() | 14:41 |
| marun | oops, sorry yamahata | 14:41 |
| rossella_s | matrohon: what you are fixing is just the interval of time before the port update, right? | 14:41 |
| marun | yamamoto: ^ | 14:42 |
| ajo | dougwig, if you had time to give me a flavours 101 class, that'd be nice | 14:42 |
| matrohon | rossella_s : you're talking about the bug 1438040? | 14:42 |
| openstack | bug 1438040 in neutron "fdb entries can't be removed when a VM is migrated" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438040 - Assigned to Mathieu Rohon (mathieu-rohon) | 14:42 |
| marun | yamamoto: I would expect the code to be structured so that I could call a function that would return me the flows rather than trying to apply them | 14:43 |
| marun | yamamoto: so that mocking wasn't required | 14:43 |
| matrohon | rossella_s : not sure, i'm currently trying to reproduce it | 14:43 |
| marun | yamamoto: and then I could directly look at corner-cases rather than having to inspect secondary interaction | 14:43 |
| marun | yamamoto: does that make sense? | 14:43 |
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| rossella_s | matrohon: let me know | 14:44 |
| yamamoto | marun: it makes sense if i write the code from scrach. | 14:44 |
| marun | yamamoto: So you think it's too expensive to refactor for testability? | 14:44 |
| marun | yamamoto: and spend more time writing tests (let alone the cost of reviewing them)? | 14:45 |
| marun | yamamoto: or are you just saying that you've already written them this way | 14:45 |
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| marun | yamamoto: I think the cost of poorly written tests extends beyond their initial implementation, but I'm one of the few that think this way. | 14:46 |
| yamamoto | marun: i just want to avoid refactoring existing ovs_lib code. :-) | 14:46 |
| marun | yamamoto: I don't think you'd have trouble merging the unit tests as-is. | 14:46 |
| rossella_s | matrohon: anyway I think the solution of PS4 it probably the only way. Sorry for all this back and forth | 14:47 |
| matrohon | rossella_s : actually, in l2pop, port info are store in migrated_port only if they are active when the host is changed by nova | 14:47 |
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| marun | yamamoto: most reviewers aren't too concerned about how unit tests work, especially given our legacy of bad ones. | 14:47 |
| yamamoto | marun: "merging the unit tests as-is" ? | 14:47 |
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| marun | yamamoto: i.e. despite my concerns, your approach is in keeping with what is already there, so reviewers other than me won't complain. | 14:47 |
| matrohon | rossella_s : but during a long migration, port status might be set to BUILD when nova send update_port() | 14:48 |
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| matrohon | rossella_s : the patch is fixing this race, so that old fdb entry are correctly removed | 14:48 |
| rossella_s | matrohon: got that thanks! | 14:48 |
| yamamoto | marun: i see | 14:49 |
| yamamoto | marun: i'm asking you because you commented about tests on a previous version of the patch | 14:50 |
| marun | yamamoto: You can ignore me | 14:50 |
| marun | yamamoto: What about functional tests? | 14:50 |
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| yamamoto | marun: i wrote a small functional test but i'm not still sure it's something useful | 14:51 |
| yamamoto | marun: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164584/ | 14:51 |
| openstackgerrit | Gal Sagie proposed openstack/neutron: allow OVSDB connection schema to be configurable https://review.openstack.org/170842 | 14:52 |
| openstackgerrit | Gal Sagie proposed openstack/neutron: Add OVSDB connection as a parameter to the transaction https://review.openstack.org/170771 | 14:52 |
| marun | yamamoto: It's a start | 14:52 |
| marun | yamamoto: I would expect to see more, though, given the scale of your proposed change. | 14:52 |
| marun | yamamoto: My goal would be validating flow installation, testing the effect of the flow, and validation of flow removal | 14:53 |
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| marun | yamamoto: for as many use cases as are being handled | 14:53 |
| marun | yamamoto: I think the key is focusing on 'capability' as opposed to 'coverage' that is the focus of unit tests | 14:54 |
| yamamoto | marun: do you have an idea how to validate flows? | 14:54 |
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| marun | yamamoto: wouldn't it be different for each function? | 14:54 |
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| marun | yamamoto: e.g. validating setup of a tunnel port may imply validating tunnel connection | 14:55 |
| marun | yamamoto: or maybe it's as simple as making sure the flow is as intended | 14:55 |
| marun | yamamoto: you already do that in unit testing, though | 14:55 |
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| yamamoto | marun: you mean something involving actual packets? | 14:56 |
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| marun | yamamoto: that would probably be useful, yes. | 14:56 |
| marun | yamamoto: if we can validate that a given capability (e.g. setting up a tunnel port) works in an isolated functional test, we can understand failures during integration testing much better | 14:57 |
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| marun | integration testing -> multiple openstack services | 14:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | Pavel Bondar proposed openstack/neutron: Refactor db_base_plugin_v2.py to use new IPAM https://review.openstack.org/153236 | 15:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Maru Newby proposed openstack/neutron: Remove check for bash usage https://review.openstack.org/170939 | 15:02 |
| marun | yamamoto: hopefully this makes you less sad? ^ | 15:02 |
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| * yamamoto looking | 15:02 | |
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| marun | ihrachyshka: we do specify a minimum tox version, or is that not what you meant? | 15:03 |
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| marun | ihrachyshka: also, I've just updated ps4 :) | 15:03 |
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| amuller | matrohon: rossella_s: A semi-related question to what you were discussing: When you add a router port by subnet_id, do you know when in that flow is the port bound to a host? I'm having trouble figuring that out | 15:05 |
| ihrachyshka | marun, well, we cap it from the bottom, but we don't limit ourselves on max version. I guess yamahata suggested that we should write scripts in some old-enough bash version, *and* be explicit about this version. | 15:05 |
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| amuller | matrohon: rossella_s: I thought that the L3 agent hosting the router is notified, at which point it'll attach the port to br-int, OVS agent will find out via the ovs monitor, which will send an update to the plugin, but that method (update_device_up) will see that the port is unbound and do nothing | 15:06 |
| openstackgerrit | Elena Ezhova proposed openstack/neutron: WIP: Don't monkey patch os.waitpid https://review.openstack.org/171244 | 15:06 |
| amuller | So I'm missing some step there | 15:06 |
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| marun | ihrachyshka: :/ | 15:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dane LeBlanc proposed openstack/neutron: Re-use context session in ML2 DB get_port_binding_host https://review.openstack.org/170690 | 15:08 |
| marun | ihrachyshka: I agree that we shouldn't limit ourselves to an old version. If/when compat issues arise we can deal with case-by-case. | 15:08 |
| ihrachyshka | +1 to that | 15:09 |
| yamamoto | marun: looks good to me except whitelist. thank you | 15:10 |
| marun | yamamoto: whitelist? | 15:10 |
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| yamamoto | marun: commented on review | 15:11 |
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| marun | yamamoto: ok | 15:12 |
| marun | yamamoto: as per ihrachyshka'scomment, is it enough to use /usr/bin/env in the check_unit_test_structure.sh? | 15:13 |
| ihrachyshka | mestery, candidate for RC maybe: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169307/ It's safe and removes a deprecation warning for users. | 15:13 |
| marun | yamamoto: or is explicit use of bash required? | 15:13 |
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| mestery | ihrachyshka: +2/+A, seems innocuous enough for the RC, thanks! | 15:14 |
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| matrohon | amuller : the port gets bound to the host when the l3agent sent update_port(its_host) to ML2 | 15:14 |
| yamamoto | marun: one of them should be enough | 15:14 |
| matrohon | amuller : is this related to l3_ha | 15:15 |
| marun | yamamoto: ok | 15:15 |
| amuller | matrohon: kind of, but first I need to understand the basic flow | 15:15 |
| amuller | matrohon: but yeah I'm working on Mike's fix for l3_ha + l2pop | 15:15 |
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| amuller | matrohon: thanks I'll look for that update_port in the l3 agent | 15:15 |
| matrohon | amuller : it's pretty messy, but let me elp on that since I already tracked this flow down | 15:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Maru Newby proposed openstack/neutron: Remove check for bash usage https://review.openstack.org/170939 | 15:15 |
| amuller | matrohon: do you know where that is in the L3 agent? grep for 'update_port' in the L3 agent folder doesn't find anything | 15:16 |
| yamamoto | marun: how do you think about using ofproto/trace for ovs FTs? it might be easier than sending real packets | 15:16 |
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| matrohon | amuller : https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/a3a1b5a5db36df7831d9cb205e8acd266dfd1285/neutron/api/rpc/handlers/l3_rpc.py#L60 | 15:16 |
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| amuller | matrohon++ | 15:17 |
| amuller | matrohon: thanks | 15:17 |
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| matrohon | amuller : sync_routers()->_ensure_host_set_on_ports()->_ensure_host_set_on_port()->update_port(binding) | 15:18 |
| matrohon | amuller : you're welcome | 15:18 |
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| marun | yamamoto: I'm not familiar with it, but it sounds promising. | 15:19 |
| matrohon | amuller : do you think you can filter this out, and ensure that only the master node sends update_port(binding)? | 15:19 |
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| amuller | matrohon: that's interesting, Mike fixed this here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141114/14/neutron/plugins/ml2/rpc.py | 15:19 |
| amuller | I'll have to think about this I'm not sure that is correct | 15:20 |
| amuller | matrohon: what you just proposed seems to make more sense? | 15:20 |
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| matrohon | amuller : ideally, now that the control plane knows which host is hosting the master router, it can send update_port accordingly | 15:21 |
| amuller | matrohon: yeah that's already happening | 15:22 |
| amuller | matrohon: check out the other change in that same patch | 15:22 |
| amuller | matrohon: but it's not enough | 15:22 |
| matrohon | amuller : yep, update_port(binding) is sent twice now, from sync_router, and from l3_hamode_db.update_routers_states(), am I wrong? | 15:23 |
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| amuller | matrohon: and in the place I linked above, so three times | 15:24 |
| amuller | matrohon: I'll think about this more deeply | 15:24 |
| matrohon | amuller : may be, with your patch, you can disable the call from sync_router if the port is a ha router port... | 15:24 |
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| amuller | matrohon: updating the host in update_routers_states makes perfect sense to me, just need to make sure that the initial host set on the port is correct | 15:25 |
| matrohon | amuller : ++ | 15:25 |
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| amuller | matrohon: yeah it's definitely either/or, no point in having it in both places... | 15:25 |
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| amuller | matrohon: but maybe it's simpler in sync_router | 15:25 |
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| matrohon | amuller: and filtering if the port is the master one? | 15:26 |
| amuller | yeah | 15:26 |
| matrohon | amuller: why not, but I also feel like there should only be one update_port(binding), the one for the master | 15:27 |
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| rossella_s | amuller, matrohon glad you figured all out without me, I am back now but I don't think you need me | 15:27 |
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| amuller | rossella_s: :) | 15:29 |
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| amuller | matrohon: I thought about it and I think it's incorrect to bind the port where Mike put it | 15:31 |
| amuller | matrohon: because the L2 agent RPC handler for update_device_up currently doesn't do port binding in any other case | 15:32 |
| amuller | so it's a mistake to mix it up there | 15:32 |
| amuller | the port binding should be in sync_routers, just fixed to filter only on the master instance | 15:32 |
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| openstackgerrit | Paul Michali proposed openstack/neutron-vpnaas: VPNaaS: Reorganize test tree https://review.openstack.org/171256 | 15:37 |
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| pc_m | marun: dougwig: mestery: ^^ | 15:39 |
| marun | pc_m: I like your intent, though doing it all in one go is not something I'd encourage. | 15:40 |
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| pc_m | marun: Should I break it into two commits? | 15:40 |
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| marun | pc_m: up to you, really. You have control :) | 15:41 |
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| marun | pc_m: I wasn't expecting *aas to start enforcing the same structural requirement, it may make sense to make the script reusable (via parametization) at some point rather than copying around | 15:42 |
| marun | But it's fine for now | 15:42 |
| pc_m | marun: I'll split it into two commits, one for bash change, one for restructuring. | 15:43 |
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| pc_m | marun: Later we can try to have one check_unit_test_structure.sh script. | 15:44 |
| marun | sounds good | 15:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Paul Michali proposed openstack/neutron-vpnaas: VPNaaS: Reorganize test tree https://review.openstack.org/171256 | 16:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Maru Newby proposed openstack/neutron: Enhance TESTING.rst https://review.openstack.org/167384 | 16:15 |
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| marun | kevinbenton, armax: ^ a minor update, I'm hoping we can defer more comprehensive changes to L | 16:16 |
| armax | marun: looking | 16:16 |
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| openstackgerrit | Maru Newby proposed openstack/neutron: Enhance TESTING.rst https://review.openstack.org/167384 | 16:17 |
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| prometheanfire | ijw: ping again? | 16:23 |
| ijw | hey | 16:23 |
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| ijw | The bug you cited is more of a feature (or a gap in features) and yes, the MTU stuff is supposed to address is | 16:24 |
| prometheanfire | ijw: if I start working that linuxbridge mtu bug you think it can get into kilo? | 16:24 |
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| prometheanfire | when we have a spec like that, shouldn't it hit the 'minimum' required list of plugins? | 16:24 |
| ijw | The bug you pointed at shoudn't need working with the MTU patch in place so you may want to check the current trunk | 16:24 |
| prometheanfire | is that just ovs, or does that include LB? | 16:25 |
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| ijw | prometheanfire: don't open that argument - I think it should but it's now an extension due to a last minute core reviewer objection | 16:25 |
| ijw | Covers both, under ML2 | 16:25 |
| prometheanfire | ok, so HEAD should set mtu on LB? | 16:25 |
| ijw | yup | 16:26 |
| prometheanfire | neat | 16:26 |
| ijw | And advertise MTU to VMs | 16:26 |
| prometheanfire | right | 16:26 |
| ijw | Which was always missing | 16:26 |
| prometheanfire | saw that patch too :P | 16:26 |
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| openstackgerrit | Paul Michali proposed openstack/neutron-vpnaas: VPNaaS: Remove check for bash usage https://review.openstack.org/171278 | 16:26 |
| prometheanfire | so can that bug be closed? or is it valid as a 'direct' LB issue (not going through ML2) | 16:26 |
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| ijw | I would close it when you demonstrate to your own satisfaction that thing are actually working correctly | 16:27 |
| prometheanfire | working correctly is a wide thing to say :P | 16:27 |
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| pc_m | mestery: ping | 16:28 |
| mestery | pc_m: pong | 16:28 |
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| ijw | pc_m, mestery: ping | 16:29 |
| mestery | ijw: pong | 16:29 |
| pc_m | mestery: I created bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1441244 to do bash change, similar to Neutron. | 16:29 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1441244 in neutron "VPNaaS: Remove check for bash scripts" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Paul Michali (pcm) | 16:29 |
| pc_m | ijw: pong | 16:30 |
| ijw | pc_m, mestery: ping | 16:30 |
| prometheanfire | lol | 16:30 |
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| ijw | I can keep this up all day, you know | 16:30 |
| pc_m | ijw: I was trying to get ahold of him | 16:31 |
| mestery | pc_m: Seems reasonable | 16:31 |
| mestery | lol | 16:31 |
| prometheanfire | ijw: I see no code in linuxbridge directly, so I'm guessing mtu cannot be set when using LB without ML2 | 16:31 |
| ijw | pc_m: careless | 16:31 |
| ijw | prometheanfire: test it | 16:31 |
| pc_m | mestery: I have that change, and the one to reorg vpn, up for review. | 16:31 |
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| prometheanfire | right, one thing at a time though :P | 16:31 |
| mestery | prometheanfire: The LB plugin doesn't exist anymore, you can't use it without ML2 in Kilo. | 16:31 |
| ijw | It should work, I'm not sure you actually have to set the MTU on the bridge | 16:31 |
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| prometheanfire | oh, that helps | 16:31 |
| ijw | I can check, anyway | 16:31 |
| prometheanfire | ijw: if you could that would be awesome, I don't have the setup to do so | 16:32 |
| pc_m | mestery: I used the same bug, on the restructuring, as I think that bug is still open. | 16:32 |
| mestery | prometheanfire: You should note the LB agent is not in good shape at the moment. /cc sc68cal | 16:32 |
| mestery | pc_m: Makes sense | 16:32 |
| pc_m | mestery: Can you disposition the bug as needed (I'm assuming this wants to get in quickly)? | 16:32 |
| prometheanfire | mestery: I know, is there a list of things that need to be fixed to bring it up to par with OVS and the like? | 16:32 |
| mestery | prometheanfire: Not yet, sc68cal is working on that. | 16:32 |
| pc_m | mestery: What should happen with https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1438259 w.r.t. Kilo? I had it out for review, before the reorg. Will likely need to rebase, due to the Neutron changes. | 16:34 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1438259 in neutron "VPNaaS: remove dependency on Neutron in UT" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Paul Michali (pcm) | 16:34 |
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| prometheanfire | sc68cal: if you don't mind, can you ping me with the list of LB deficiencies when you have them (or give me the tracking bug)? | 16:34 |
| mestery | pc_m: That one lets leave for Liberty | 16:35 |
| pc_m | mestery: ok | 16:35 |
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| ijw | prometheanfire: I've pinged someone, we'll see what I find out. You're using LB and what network protocol? | 16:40 |
| ijw | sc68cal: me too | 16:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | stephen-ma proposed openstack/neutron: Router is not unscheduled when the last VM is deleted https://review.openstack.org/159296 | 17:05 |
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| dougwig | ajo: good morning | 17:06 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zengfa Gao proposed openstack/python-neutronclient: Add Neutron subnetpool API https://review.openstack.org/159618 | 17:17 |
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| openstackgerrit | pritesh proposed openstack/neutron: Moving VLAN Transparency support from core to extension https://review.openstack.org/169569 | 17:36 |
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| openstackgerrit | Gal Sagie proposed openstack/neutron: Add OVSDB connection as a parameter to the transaction https://review.openstack.org/170771 | 17:39 |
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| openstackgerrit | Gal Sagie proposed openstack/neutron: allow OVSDB connection schema to be configurable https://review.openstack.org/170842 | 17:47 |
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| amuller | emagana: Hey Edgar, do we have any 'new contributors' documentation, something from the upstream openstack courses for example? I could only find https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute#If_you.27re_a_developer and it's really lackluster | 17:54 |
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| emagana | amuller: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/HowTo#Edit_OpenStack_RST_and.2For_DocBook_documentation | 17:55 |
| emagana | amuller: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Markup_conventions | 17:55 |
| emagana | amuller: Is that what you are looking for? | 17:56 |
| amuller | emagana: I'm looking for documents that would help us onboard new contributors | 17:56 |
| amuller | emagana: If I could just point people to something they could read to get them started, like a list of materials you should get to know if you want to work on OpenStack | 17:57 |
| emagana | amuller: as developers, the best source will be: | 17:57 |
| amuller | like: If you're new to Python, he's a list of good materials to learn it from | 17:57 |
| amuller | then work from there... | 17:57 |
| emagana | amuller: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NeutronDevelopment | 17:57 |
| emagana | amuller: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/developers.html | 17:57 |
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| emagana | amuller: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute | 17:58 |
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| emagana | on the python side, well there a few books out there... one that is close to OpenStack is: | 17:58 |
| amuller | emagana: I see that the NeutronDevelopment wiki article was updated a bit since last time I looked | 17:59 |
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| annegent_ | amuller: there's https://github.com/openstack/training-guides/tree/master/doc/upstream-training for the upstream training | 17:59 |
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| annegent_ | amuller: emagana: It's not neutron specific to my knowledge | 18:00 |
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| emagana | amuller: I like this book for new contributors: https://julien.danjou.info/books/the-hacker-guide-to-python | 18:01 |
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| emagana | amuller: and obiously dev docs in the neutron tree | 18:02 |
| amuller | emagana: haven't read that one | 18:02 |
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| amuller | emagana: I always recommend this: http://www.diveintopython.net/ for the basics, then this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSGv2VnC0go | 18:05 |
| amuller | when I onboard people at Red Hat | 18:05 |
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| emagana | amuller: will take a look! | 18:05 |
| Akanksha08 | Hi folks! | 18:08 |
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| Akanksha08 | I am a new contributor to OpenStack and would like to contribute to neutron | 18:09 |
| Akanksha08 | I am working on this https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1254984 | 18:09 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1254984 in neutron "spawn_n swallows exceptions in l3_agent " [Low,In progress] - Assigned to Akanksha (akanksha-aha) | 18:09 |
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| Akanksha08 | Someone has already worked on it. So should I just work on improving the solution already given by the one who worked on this | 18:11 |
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| amuller | Akanksha08: I don't think so, the code changed a lot since November of 2013 | 18:12 |
| Akanksha08 | okay | 18:12 |
| prometheanfire | ijw: vxlan | 18:12 |
| amuller | Akanksha08: because of that I would start a new patch, but generally yes you would coordinate with the original author | 18:12 |
| Akanksha08 | okay | 18:12 |
| ijw | Yeah, I've done that but I admit I've not had a chance to do that with the new code yet | 18:12 |
| prometheanfire | ijw: might be able to test | 18:12 |
| ijw | prometheanfire: cool | 18:13 |
| prometheanfire | using the os-ansible stuff, it deploys with ml2/vxlan iirc | 18:13 |
| prometheanfire | just needs an edit to add the mtu settings | 18:13 |
| Akanksha08 | Thanks amuller | 18:13 |
| prometheanfire | also, master needs to work | 18:13 |
| amuller | Akanksha08: sure thing, feel free to add me as a reviewer to your patch I have some experience there | 18:13 |
| Akanksha08 | I was trying to find any other low-hanging fruit but couldn't | 18:13 |
| Akanksha08 | amuller, yes sure I will | 18:14 |
| amuller | Akanksha08: And I'd probably get familiar with the L3 agent functional tests: neutron/tests/functional/agent/test_l3_agent | 18:14 |
| amuller | Akanksha08: Yes I don't think we have much if any unassigned low hanging fruit | 18:14 |
| amuller | at this time | 18:14 |
| Akanksha08 | yes I didn't find any | 18:14 |
| amuller | But there's loads to do | 18:14 |
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| Akanksha08 | So in the mean time I contributed to zaqar | 18:15 |
| Akanksha08 | I have applied for neutron project as a prt of OPW | 18:15 |
| Akanksha08 | part* | 18:15 |
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| amuller | Akanksha08: What is OPW? Not familiar with that | 18:16 |
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| Akanksha08 | Outreachy now former Outreach Program for Women | 18:16 |
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| Akanksha08 | amuller, https://gnome.org/outreachy/ | 18:17 |
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| amuller | Akanksha08: Ahh that's interesting | 18:17 |
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| Akanksha08 | amuller, yes I am waiting for the results :) | 18:18 |
| Akanksha08 | Till then I will keep contributing and learning | 18:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | Edgar Magana proposed openstack/neutron: Add missing config parameters in neutron.conf https://review.openstack.org/171059 | 18:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron: Fix dynamic arp populate error for dvr routers https://review.openstack.org/170323 | 18:28 |
| Akanksha08 | Hi bishtsanddev | 18:30 |
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| bishtsanddev | Akanksh08: Hi | 18:30 |
| Akanksha08 | yes so for contributing first you need to follow http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/developers.html | 18:31 |
| Akanksha08 | All the steps are nicely documented there | 18:32 |
| Akanksha08 | I followed the same | 18:32 |
| bishtsanddev | Ok will go through all the steps provided in channel. | 18:33 |
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| Akanksha08 | bishtsanddev, let me know if you face any issues. Would be glad if I could help :) | 18:33 |
| bishtsanddev | Ofcourse, i am really new. I need lots of help from you guys. | 18:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron: Stop using deprecated DEFAULT group for lock_path https://review.openstack.org/169307 | 18:38 |
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| Akanksha08 | bishtsanddev, No problem we would love to help you! | 18:42 |
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| rushil | Hey. Does anyone know what is the range of segmentation id ranges supported by GRE? | 18:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | Arvind Somya proposed openstack/neutron: Model and migration for cisco providernet extension driver https://review.openstack.org/171326 | 18:47 |
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| pc_m | marun: mestery: dougwig: Jenkins passed on the VPN UT restructure. Can you kindly review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/171256? | 19:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dane LeBlanc proposed openstack/neutron: Re-use context session in ML2 DB get_port_binding_host https://review.openstack.org/170690 | 19:15 |
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| baoli | amuller: ping, RE: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167339/ | 19:24 |
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| amuller | baoli: heya | 19:26 |
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| amuller | baoli: it's just really weird because I didn't hit that issue on both my Ubuntu and Fedora VMs, let me look at your latest comment | 19:28 |
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| baoli | amuller: can you check where the utility is installed on your system? With devstack, it's always installed at /usr/local/bin | 19:29 |
| baoli | amuller: another question is do we have support in devstack in setting up l3_ha, and networks, etc? | 19:30 |
| openstackgerrit | Slawek Kaplonski proposed openstack/neutron-specs: fwaas rules directions https://review.openstack.org/171340 | 19:30 |
| baoli | amuller: I have to make some change in devstack in order to run ha | 19:30 |
| amuller | baoli: ok so I use the functional tests on my Ubuntu VM successfully but there the rootwrap configuration is different | 19:31 |
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| amuller | baoli: on my Fedora VMs that run devstack for L3 HA neutron-keepalived-state-change is installed in /usr/bin, not /usr/local/bin | 19:31 |
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| amuller | baoli: but the correct fix is to modify rootwrap.conf | 19:31 |
| amuller | not amend every single process | 19:32 |
| baoli | amuller: I thought about that too, but saw that metadata proxy does the same. But if you prefer, we can go that route. | 19:32 |
| amuller | baoli: yeah it's wrong for metadata proxy... If whoever added that just modified rootwrap.conf you wouldn't have this issue | 19:33 |
| amuller | so let's save the next guy some time | 19:33 |
| baoli | amuller: agreed | 19:33 |
| amuller | baoli: There is no devstack macro for l3_ha, but the only modification you need to make is to flip l3_ha to True in neutron.conf on your controller | 19:33 |
| baoli | amuller: I'll make that change then. Also I'd remove the local entry for metadata_proxy. Does that sound good to you? | 19:34 |
| amuller | baoli: That would go in another patch though of course | 19:34 |
| baoli | amuller: so you are saying to make a cleanup patch for metadata_proxy. That's fine with me too. | 19:34 |
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| amuller | baoli: you can add this to your local.conf | 19:38 |
| amuller | http://paste.openstack.org/ | 19:38 |
| amuller | err | 19:38 |
| amuller | http://paste.openstack.org/show/199763/ | 19:38 |
| amuller | that should set l3_ha for you during stack.sh | 19:38 |
| amuller | or you can just set it after stack.sh finishes | 19:39 |
| baoli | amuller: yeah, that would do. | 19:39 |
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| baoli | amuller: in devstack, it creates initial networks and a router. With l3_ha turned on, the controller stack.sh would bail out while creating the router and complains that at least two l3 agents should be available. | 19:41 |
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| baoli | amuller: how do you overcome that problem? | 19:41 |
| amuller | baoli: I turn l3_ha on after stack.sh finishes | 19:41 |
| amuller | and my VMs with the l3_agent have registered | 19:41 |
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| baoli | amuller, so you'd have to restart neutron services? | 19:42 |
| amuller | baoli: yeah | 19:42 |
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| amuller | or you can turn off the devstack feature that creates a demo network/subnet/router for you | 19:42 |
| openstackgerrit | pritesh proposed openstack/neutron: Moving VLAN Transparency support from core to extension https://review.openstack.org/169569 | 19:42 |
| baoli | amuller: that's what I did | 19:43 |
| baoli | amuller: would it be nice to take the neutron "create initial network" out of the devstack neutron script, and make it independent? | 19:45 |
| amuller | baoli: how do you mean make it independent? Require the user to run it manually? | 19:45 |
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| baoli | amuller: it runs by default, but if one prefer, it can be run manually after stack.sh. | 19:46 |
| baoli | amuller, in the case of l3_ha, one can run it after all the devstack nodes are up | 19:46 |
| amuller | baoli: I don't know if the devstack maintainers would see the need for it but you can try | 19:47 |
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| amuller | I think it's easy to create a network/subnet/router triplet anyway | 19:47 |
| baoli | amuller, it would just make it easy for someone to try the l3 ha, I think | 19:47 |
| amuller | baoli: that person would have to know to manually change the bit that makes that script not run though | 19:48 |
| baoli | amuller: this would be part of your ha wiki. | 19:48 |
| amuller | baoli: I haven't updated that in a while | 19:49 |
| amuller | probably should | 19:49 |
| amuller | baoli: I'm preparing a blog post about bp/report-ha-router-master sometime soon hopefully | 19:49 |
| baoli | amuller, cool | 19:50 |
| baoli | amuller, if you think that the devstack change would be useful, I'd like to propose it. Otherwise, I can just put it aside. | 19:50 |
| amuller | baoli: Go for it | 19:51 |
| baoli | amuller: cool. I'll give it a shot. | 19:52 |
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| baoli | amuller: thanks. Will update the patch sometime soon | 19:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sanjeev Rampal proposed openstack/neutron: Improves the description string for the config parameter metadata_workers. This will get extracted into the documentation automatically https://review.openstack.org/171026 | 20:03 |
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| openstackgerrit | Baodong (Robert) Li proposed openstack/neutron: Add /usr/local/bin in exec_dirs https://review.openstack.org/167339 | 20:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Mathieu Rohon proposed openstack/neutron: ML2: Change port status only when it's bound to the host https://review.openstack.org/163178 | 20:17 |
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| openstackgerrit | Baodong (Robert) Li proposed openstack/neutron: remove metadata_proxy_local filters for rootwrap https://review.openstack.org/171354 | 20:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Kevin Benton proposed openstack/neutron: Add simple ARP spoofing protection https://review.openstack.org/171003 | 20:20 |
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| pritesh | salv-orlando: ping | 21:17 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron: Remove check for bash usage https://review.openstack.org/170939 | 21:26 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sridhar Gaddam proposed openstack/neutron: Add sanity_check for keepalived ipv6 support https://review.openstack.org/168781 | 21:39 |
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| prometheanfire | ijw_: ok, tested, neutron pieces work, but the linuxbridge angent on the nova compute host doesn't set the mtu | 22:15 |
| ijw_ | prometheanfire: does that cause a problem? | 22:15 |
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| prometheanfire | it means guests can't use the larger mtu | 22:15 |
| prometheanfire | I haven't checked nova config for mtu stuff though | 22:15 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron: Enhance TESTING.rst https://review.openstack.org/167384 | 22:19 |
| ijw_ | prometheanfire: you've confirmed that packets drop? I'm not sure if LB respects its MTU setting | 22:21 |
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| prometheanfire | the tap/bridge on the neutron-agent server side stuff is set properly | 22:22 |
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| prometheanfire | the tap/bridge on the nova compute host running linuxbridge-agent doesn't have it's mtu set at all | 22:22 |
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| prometheanfire | Sam-I-Am: hi | 22:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | howdy | 22:26 |
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| prometheanfire | Sam-I-Am: wanna try that patch from the email? | 22:26 |
| prometheanfire | Sam-I-Am: or maybe set the mtu manually, just to see if it works everwhere else (just for this instance) | 22:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | which? | 22:27 |
| prometheanfire | which what? | 22:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | patch email? | 22:27 |
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| prometheanfire | the one from james, included in claco's email | 22:28 |
| prometheanfire | Sam-I-Am: for now I have to go though, might pick it up in the morning if that sounds right | 22:28 |
| prometheanfire | well, going home/food now | 22:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | k | 22:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | i gotta run too :/ | 22:29 |
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| ijw | prometheanfire: So MTUs aren't set, but what I said still applies - are you seeing dropped packets? | 22:32 |
| openstackgerrit | Kevin Benton proposed openstack/neutron: Add simple ARP spoofing protection https://review.openstack.org/171003 | 22:32 |
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| ijw | kevinbenton: does that work with the portsecurity extension that was added to ML2? | 22:34 |
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| kevinbenton | ijw: what does the portsecurity extension allow? | 22:35 |
| kevinbenton | ijw: or what did it do? | 22:35 |
| ijw | disabling of port security - specifically, groups, mac and address spoofing | 22:35 |
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| kevinbenton | ijw: can a tenant do that to their own port? | 22:38 |
| kevinbenton | ijw: or is it admin-only? | 22:39 |
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| ijw | kevinbenton: a tenant can do that to their own port on their own network | 22:39 |
| kevinbenton | ijw: but not on a shared network belonging to someone else, right? | 22:39 |
| ijw | Nope (and that was the first thing I asked) | 22:39 |
| kevinbenton | ijw: ok. i should be able to make this respect that setting pretty easily | 22:39 |
| ijw | It's got the same security that the original Nicira extension had, but it hangs together | 22:40 |
| kevinbenton | ijw: do you have a pointer to that change so i can see the relevant flags? | 22:40 |
| ijw | I think it was Isaku's (I didn't actually review it, I'm a bad person) | 22:40 |
| ijw | Let me look | 22:40 |
| ijw | Try from here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-ovs-portsecurity | 22:41 |
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| kevinbenton | is it this 'port_filter' flag in the vif details? | 22:45 |
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| pritesh | check-neutron-dsvm-functional keeps failing for all neutron patches currently, anyone sees this too? | 22:48 |
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| pritesh | mainly the test_ovsdb_monitor tests. | 22:49 |
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| kevinbenton | ijw: got it | 22:51 |
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| Sukhdev | armax: Ping | 23:09 |
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| Sam-I-Am | ijw: ping | 23:12 |
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| Sam-I-Am | ijw: testing the new mtu stuff in kilo | 23:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | ijw: everything seemed to get the correct mtu except the compute tap and bridge | 23:15 |
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| openstackgerrit | Edgar Magana proposed openstack/neutron: Add missing config parameters in neutron.conf https://review.openstack.org/171059 | 23:38 |
| openstackgerrit | Armando Migliaccio proposed openstack/neutron: Fix intermittent UT failures in test_utils https://review.openstack.org/171433 | 23:41 |
| armax | mestery, amuller, kevinbenton: ^^^ | 23:42 |
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| amuller | armax: never seen those fail, maybe you can add a sample failure in the commit message? | 23:44 |
| armax | amuller: what about the bug report? | 23:44 |
| amuller | armax: oy vey, didn't notice you had one | 23:44 |
| armax | amuller: with logstash query annexed? | 23:44 |
| armax | amuller: yes, sir | 23:45 |
| armax | amuller: I am the full package | 23:45 |
| amuller | hah | 23:45 |
| armax | ... | 23:45 |
| armax | :) | 23:45 |
| mestery | lol | 23:45 |
| mestery | armax is the man | 23:45 |
| armax | mestery, kevinbenton thanks for the prompt turnaround | 23:46 |
| mestery | armax: thanks for the prompt bug fix! | 23:46 |
| amuller | armax: the bad thing about logstash is that those links go away after some time... I had that happen when I needed to investigate an old bug, the bug description was only a link to logstash and it was dead | 23:47 |
| amuller | just something to keep in mind | 23:47 |
| armax | amuller: um interesting | 23:47 |
| armax | amuller: you’re right, even the logs go away | 23:47 |
| armax | amuller: I’ll add the stacktrace to the report | 23:48 |
| amuller | it's useful to add some information to the bug because of that reason (Not for this specific bug though) | 23:48 |
| amuller | well, maybe if someone git blames your change to the functional test and tracks it down to the bug report | 23:48 |
| armax | amuller: no, that’s a good point, sometimes I do do that, but this time I forgot | 23:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron-vpnaas: VPNaaS: Reorganize test tree https://review.openstack.org/171256 | 23:49 |
| armax | the traceback is not as glamorous this time though :) | 23:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Assaf Muller proposed openstack/neutron: Update port bindings for master router https://review.openstack.org/141114 | 23:57 |
| Sukhdev | armax: Ping | 23:58 |
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