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mdorman | thanks for update on ML thread, sorrison. at least i know we are in the same boat and i’m not crazy | 02:47 |
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VW | well, you are crazy | 02:54 |
VW | mdorman, but you and sorrison may still be in the same boat :P | 02:54 |
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mdorman | indeed o_O | 02:55 |
VW | "if we weren't all crazy, we would go insane" - Jimmy Buffett | 02:56 |
sorrison_laptop | Hey guys | 02:56 |
VW | hello, sir! | 02:56 |
sorrison_laptop | always good to know it can be replicated | 02:56 |
VW | will fire up the meeting stuffs momentarily | 02:56 |
sorrison_laptop | I'm in the middle of a nectar workshop, currently having the best roast pork for lunch! | 02:57 |
mdorman | that sounds very tasty | 02:57 |
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* VW ponders appropriate comment refering to proper biscuits | 02:59 | |
sorrison_laptop | Yeah miss those | 03:00 |
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VW | well, here we go... | 03:01 |
VW | #startmeeting Large Deployments Team May 2016 Meeting | 03:01 |
openstack | Meeting started Fri May 20 03:01:31 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is VW. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:01 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:01 |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting' | 03:01 |
VW | quick roll call | 03:02 |
mdorman | o/ | 03:02 |
sorrison_laptop | o/ | 03:02 |
gfa_ | 1 | 03:02 |
gfa_ | o/ | 03:02 |
VW | 0/ | 03:02 |
VW | hope everyone didn't have too many cloud fires to put out after the summit | 03:03 |
VW | #topic summit follow up | 03:04 |
VW | so, the one thing we didn't manage to boil things down to was a new item to pick up as a team and pursue with devs | 03:04 |
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VW | I think that the retiring/removing/hidding old images was as close as we got | 03:05 |
VW | but, any particular items from the LDT sessions at the summit - or any other sessions - that we need to bring back up as a team? | 03:05 |
sorrison_laptop | I also think the whole delivery of images to compute nodes and then the snapshot process is something we could look into? | 03:06 |
mdorman | yeah originally back after tokyo we had talked about trying to pick up some glance stuff. so that seems as good as any. | 03:06 |
VW | can you elaborate sorrison_laptop | 03:07 |
VW | you mean the passing of images through the glance APIs | 03:07 |
VW | or somethin gelse | 03:07 |
mdorman | i would also liek to see LDT as a source for info for shepherding people through the cells v1 —> v2 transition, although it’s probably a bit early to be doing much of anything real useful there. | 03:07 |
sorrison_laptop | yeah I like that idea mdorman | 03:08 |
VW | me too | 03:08 |
VW | sounds like the change for migrating is going to be O, right? | 03:08 |
mdorman | i don’t recall exactly, but that seems about right. definitely should probably be a focus for barcelona | 03:08 |
sorrison_laptop | WRT glance I partly mean bypassing glance to get it out of the way | 03:08 |
VW | yeah - same thing | 03:09 |
mdorman | yeah i think these glance things would be a good shorter term thing to do | 03:09 |
VW | cool | 03:09 |
VW | unfortunately this is not a good time for belmiro. He has looked at the deprecated image bit the most | 03:10 |
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sorrison_laptop | basically need a flag on a glance image that nova can query on boot | 03:11 |
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VW | yeah, I think so | 03:12 |
VW | was just looking back at the Glance stuff here - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/AUS-ops-informal-meetup | 03:12 |
sorrison_laptop | yeah I went to that session | 03:12 |
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mdorman | i think i missed that part. | 03:14 |
VW | looks like https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Glance-deactivate-image and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132717/ are most appropriate | 03:14 |
flwang | VW: with the deactivate image, i think nova rebuild will still fail | 03:15 |
VW | yeah - I think that's the curx of the issue | 03:15 |
flwang | the hard part to deprecate an image in cloud is there are still some instances depend on that | 03:15 |
VW | we want to stop the new, but have tenants out there who may need to rebuild | 03:15 |
VW | exactly | 03:16 |
flwang | i'm responsible for our cloud's images maintaining | 03:16 |
flwang | and i would say the old images maintenance is frustrating | 03:17 |
VW | agreed | 03:17 |
VW | with a public cloud to look after, I'm not sure they ever dia :) | 03:17 |
sorrison_laptop | yeah unfortunately reading the commit message it doesn't look like it will do what we want | 03:18 |
sorrison_laptop | almost want a "bootable" flag for an image | 03:18 |
sorrison_laptop | that's really the only thing we want to disable | 03:18 |
VW | agreed | 03:19 |
sorrison_laptop | which means nova and glance interaction | 03:19 |
sorrison_laptop | so I guess we need to talk to some glance people about whether we can redefine what deactivated is or we need a new action | 03:20 |
VW | yes, I think so | 03:20 |
VW | but do we need to bring Nova to the conversation too | 03:20 |
sorrison_laptop | yeah as they would need to check that value on a boot api request? | 03:21 |
mdorman | really does seem this is mostly on the nova side. glace wise you could simply put some ‘bootable’ metadata key on the image, no changes needed to glance. | 03:21 |
gfa_ | maybe a nova filter can do the trick | 03:22 |
sorrison_laptop | yeah true | 03:22 |
flwang | sorrison_laptop: that's a good point, re the 'bootable' flag | 03:22 |
flwang | VW: I'm a glance core actually :D | 03:23 |
VW | WIN! | 03:23 |
mdorman | would be good to discuss with nova, get a feel for how they would envision doing this. unsure if this particular piece of the issue has ever been raise with them. | 03:23 |
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sorrison_laptop | a filter is an interesting idea | 03:24 |
VW | yeah flwang - I haven't taken off my Rackspace hat and hit Hemmanth up with anything re: LDT | 03:24 |
VW | yet :) | 03:24 |
VW | yes, a filter is | 03:24 |
sorrison_laptop | glance has the functionally to support admin metadata key/values | 03:24 |
flwang | VW: i think the tricky part is we don't want to allow to create new instance based on the image, but we should keep all the other things, like rebuild, live migration, etc, works | 03:24 |
VW | exactly | 03:25 |
flwang | there are a lot of filters in nova, if we can't reuse them, then maybe we can create a new one | 03:25 |
gfa_ | :D | 03:25 |
sorrison_laptop | using a filter means that instead of the boot request not being accepted it is accepted and fails | 03:26 |
mdorman | yeah i like this filter idea too | 03:26 |
sorrison_laptop | I would prefer it got stopped at the api level | 03:26 |
mdorman | true | 03:26 |
VW | me too | 03:26 |
flwang | i can work on that guys, recently, i'm playing with filter to support windows images on our cloud | 03:26 |
flwang | sorrison: that may introduce some logic change in nova | 03:26 |
sorrison_laptop | yeah exactly, that is the hard way | 03:27 |
flwang | and i can imagine it would be hard to be merged, just my 2 cents | 03:27 |
xavpaice | would be good to better understand how to add custom filters though | 03:27 |
mdorman | the filter thing might be a good first MVP step. at least it could help stop the bleeding of using old images | 03:27 |
mdorman | would be interested to see what you come up with flwang | 03:27 |
sorrison_laptop | I'd like a flag in nova to say only allow images to boot if they have image-meta X | 03:27 |
sorrison_laptop | but yeah a filter may be a good first step | 03:28 |
VW | yes - in the spirit of moving things along, flwang - can you put together a spec (or an etherpad mock up there of) and circulate it | 03:28 |
flwang | sorrison: i will talk with nova guys to figure out a way, i will let you guys know when there is any progress | 03:28 |
sorrison_laptop | great | 03:29 |
flwang | VW: no problem | 03:29 |
VW | tag it with [Large Deployement Team] on the ops list | 03:29 |
VW | yes, and let me know if you need help pushing on the Nova folks | 03:29 |
VW | I can harrass a few cores myself | 03:29 |
flwang | VW: let me know how large it is? | 03:29 |
flwang | ;) | 03:29 |
flwang | VW: i know the nova PTL very well, we were colleagues when i worked for IBM | 03:29 |
VW | yeah, and the former one works with me | 03:30 |
mdorman | it’s not what you know, but who you know. | 03:30 |
VW | but, this brings me back to something that we sort of talked about in Austin, but we should probably revisit | 03:31 |
flwang | VW: awesome | 03:31 |
flwang | VW: i discussed with brain romatia and nikhil about how it's done in Rackspace | 03:31 |
VW | do we, as a team, need to make a combined statement on where we think that Nova (since most clouds center around compute) needs to be more knowledgable of resources in the other services than it is | 03:32 |
flwang | but i can't remember anything ;D | 03:32 |
VW | oh yeah - forgot that Brian was back in the Glance game | 03:32 |
flwang | VW: or translate it as: the other services need to provide more way/apis to be consumed by others | 03:33 |
flwang | or just more attributes | 03:33 |
VW | well, one of the concepts we were talking about flwang was things like a nova delete not getting a response from Neutron and then leaves a ports/IPs stranded | 03:34 |
VW | Nova will say - it's a Neutron problem - we sent the request to the API | 03:34 |
flwang | VW: that's bad | 03:34 |
flwang | VW: imagine delete a tenant from keystone :) | 03:34 |
xavpaice | try deleting a keystone project, and see what instances get left behind :) | 03:34 |
flwang | you will feel better | 03:35 |
xavpaice | sometimes it shows we work together :) | 03:35 |
* jamespd looks at all of the owner-less routers :/ | 03:35 | |
VW | I think my point is for all the work to keep the services seperate - as large deployers - we can admit that most of the resources in our clouds are tied to an instance | 03:36 |
flwang | jamespd: you're the king of owner-less routers | 03:36 |
mdorman | VW: is there a case for what you’re talking about re: Nova knowing more about other resources that doesn’t fall into the delete/orphaning scenario? | 03:36 |
VW | yeah, I've got orphaned IPs I have to go clean up on a somewhat frequent basis | 03:36 |
VW | for me, the ideal scenario would be that Nova tracks resources used by a VM in other services | 03:37 |
VW | and doesn't complete the VM delete until they are cleaned up | 03:37 |
flwang | VW: as for the image deprecation, should we totally forbid user boot images from old public images? | 03:37 |
VW | yes flwang | 03:38 |
VW | on the other, maybe I'm crazy | 03:38 |
flwang | VW: haha, thanks for the confirmation | 03:38 |
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VW | I just get the sense from sessions - and halway talk - that nova is looking to pay less and less direct attention to other things | 03:39 |
VW | and we may not want that | 03:39 |
xavpaice | perhaps nova should just track the resources it consumes - i.e. things a VM is using like IPs - which could at least prevent the orphans | 03:40 |
VW | yeah xavpaice - something like that | 03:41 |
xavpaice | but maybe we need to try to raise a bug whenever we see such things rather than just fixing them in the db | 03:41 |
xavpaice | (I know I'm unlikely to do so because it's hard to replicate) | 03:41 |
VW | I know our nova folks fixed at least one recently. I'll follow up on if it is/will be upstream | 03:42 |
VW | anyway, I think I sidetracked things. We'll keep an eye on that stuff. This was a brief part of chatter in our Thursday session and wasn't sure if folks had thoughts | 03:43 |
VW | sounds like we have a start on the deprecated image stuff | 03:43 |
VW | flwang: what's your geography | 03:43 |
flwang | VW: NZ | 03:43 |
VW | will you be able to make next months meeting or do we want to revisit in July | 03:43 |
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flwang | same company with xavpaice and jamespd | 03:44 |
VW | ah | 03:44 |
xavpaice | UTC+12 fwiw | 03:44 |
VW | well, if we don't cover much on the mailing lists between now and then, lets circle back in two months here | 03:44 |
VW | unless you just have a burning desire to jump in a meeting at 2:00 am your time :) | 03:45 |
jamespd | heh | 03:46 |
VW | before we run out of time was there anything from the cells V2 sessions we wanted to circle back on? | 03:46 |
VW | they occured after our last LDT session | 03:46 |
flwang | VW: i will stay at this channel a while and update the status about image deprecation | 03:47 |
flwang | spec | 03:47 |
VW | excellent | 03:47 |
VW | we'll be sure to circulate, comment, etc | 03:47 |
mdorman | iirc the cells v2 discussion was pretty deep in the weeds and i don’t recall anything particularly piqueing my interest | 03:47 |
VW | I'm sure the CERN folks will want to chime in when they wake up | 03:48 |
VW | me either mdorman, but I know I wasn't the smartest person in the room | 03:48 |
VW | so, I thought I'd double check with you all | 03:48 |
mdorman | yeah, klindgren and sorrison_laptop were in there too | 03:48 |
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VW | ok - so aside from the great migration fears we all share, no specific cells V2 stuff to worry about right now then? | 03:50 |
mdorman | yeah that’s the sense i have | 03:50 |
VW | cool | 03:50 |
VW | don't forget sorrison_laptop, if any of your sites build local to the cell via an api at that level, the new DB introduced in M will potentially break that | 03:51 |
VW | that's the first cells V2 thing we tripped over since we build bypass apis for testing new cells | 03:52 |
VW | well, we have 8 minutes left, so... | 03:52 |
VW | #other business | 03:52 |
VW | anything else we need to cover | 03:52 |
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VW | argh - sorry - late here | 03:53 |
VW | #topic other business | 03:53 |
mdorman | i have nothing. thanks for leading VW | 03:53 |
fifieldt | +1 all hail VW | 03:53 |
mdorman | haha | 03:53 |
mdorman | fifieldt: ! o/ | 03:53 |
VW | who let that guy in ^ | 03:53 |
jamespd | oh, snap. | 03:53 |
VW | I was just about to say that I joined fifieldt and others in a good chat about the next mid-cycle | 03:54 |
VW | a good group of engaged folks is looking to make that an open and solid process | 03:54 |
fifieldt | shameless plug: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ops_Meetups_Team | 03:54 |
VW | stay tuned for details, but it's looking strongly like it will be North America in August | 03:54 |
mdorman | yeah iwas just lurking during that, i was pleased as well | 03:55 |
VW | also, one of the things fifieldt challenged me on was having this team really think about what our ideal summit schedule would be like in the future with the new structure | 03:55 |
VW | that pushes the bulk of design work to different gatherings and focuses more on dev and ops interaction | 03:56 |
VW | correct me if I got that wrong fifieldt | 03:56 |
xavpaice | seems to me that the ops midcycle becomes a whole lot more important with the new summit schedule? | 03:56 |
VW | not for this meeting, but something we should start thinking on now because it will take us a bit to get it all fleshed out | 03:56 |
VW | probably so xavpaice | 03:56 |
fifieldt | I think ttx put out a blog post today on the perceived changes, check it out | 03:57 |
VW | oh - really | 03:57 |
VW | cool | 03:57 |
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fifieldt | #link https://www.openstack.org/blog/2016/05/faq-evolving-the-openstack-design-summit/ | 03:58 |
VW | awesome! | 03:59 |
fifieldt | plz2join the webinar and get your opinons across :) | 03:59 |
VW | we will | 03:59 |
VW | thanks for popping in, sir | 03:59 |
fifieldt | cheers | 04:00 |
* fifieldt lurks | 04:00 | |
VW | well, folks - that's about all she wrote. let's see where the glance bits go. feel free to hit the mailing list about it, flawg. Otherwise, I'll return you to your regularly scheduled shenanigans and see you all next month | 04:01 |
VW | #endmeeting | 04:01 |
openstack | Meeting ended Fri May 20 04:01:43 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 04:01 |
flwang | VW: cool, thanks | 04:01 |
mdorman | thanks again VW. sorrison_laptop, eat some pork for me | 04:01 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting/2016/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting.2016-05-20-03.01.html | 04:01 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting/2016/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting.2016-05-20-03.01.txt | 04:01 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting/2016/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting.2016-05-20-03.01.log.html | 04:01 |
sorrison_laptop | sorry in the middle of a presentation | 04:02 |
VW | doh | 04:02 |
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