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| mrhillsman | . | 13:33 |
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| mihalis68 | Ops Meetups team meeting in a couple of minutes | 13:59 |
| mihalis68 | #startmeeting Ops Meetup Team | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 21 14:00:21 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mihalis68. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ops_meetup_team' | 14:00 |
| mihalis68 | I don't see any regular attendees | 14:00 |
| mihalis68 | perhaps people are already on vacation | 14:00 |
| mihalis68 | #link agenda https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-meetups-team | 14:00 |
| *** shintaro has joined #openstack-operators | 14:01 | |
| mihalis68 | hello | 14:01 |
| shintaro | hi | 14:02 |
| mihalis68 | there's nobody around | 14:02 |
| shintaro | oh. shall we wait for few minutes | 14:02 |
| mihalis68 | yeah | 14:02 |
| mihalis68 | thanks for filling out the agenda | 14:02 |
| mihalis68 | so sponsoring breakfast is estimated at $2k? | 14:03 |
| shintaro | yes. including morning coffee | 14:03 |
| mihalis68 | nice. I'll ask if we can cover that | 14:03 |
| mihalis68 | the question about the eventbrite funds will have to go to a foundation member. | 14:03 |
| med_ | \o | 14:03 |
| mihalis68 | hi! | 14:03 |
| * med_ just woke up, not a work day | 14:04 | |
| shintaro | I will ask Clair about the eventbrite funds | 14:04 |
| mihalis68 | you beat all but 2 here! | 14:04 |
| shintaro | hi | 14:04 |
| mihalis68 | #topic actions | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:04 | |
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| mihalis68 | last week we only had one - emccormick to join the LTS debate on the mailing list. COMPLETE | 14:05 |
| mihalis68 | that debate has taken off on the mailing list, and on an ether pad (see link in agenda) | 14:05 |
| mihalis68 | there's talk of converting the topic into a SIG instead of spanning operators mailing list and developers mailing list | 14:05 |
| med_ | that they dragged that discussion to -sig was kind of annoying. | 14:05 |
| mihalis68 | somebody else commented privately to me that is sometimes a way to play nice but effectively bury an issue | 14:06 |
| shintaro | I wonder how many people are in the SIG-ML | 14:07 |
| med_ | well, just meant I had another ml to join and also didn't have older messages in my mail queue. | 14:07 |
| mihalis68 | if anyone else had older actions, feel free to put them on the agenda. It's too hard to go back and scrape old meeting minutes to find incomplete actions | 14:07 |
| mihalis68 | I wasn't subscribed, certainly (now fixed) | 14:07 |
| mihalis68 | #action shintaro is going to contact foundation (Clair) about using Eventbrite funds for T-Shirts | 14:08 |
| shintaro | I need to check the Foundation about the graphics and logos for the OpsMeetup | 14:08 |
| shintaro | I will also ask how many have registered so far. | 14:09 |
| mihalis68 | seems we've moved on to the tokyo event, so #topic Tokyo Ops Mid-Cycle Meetup | 14:09 |
| mihalis68 | is breakfast+coffee the main sponsorship opportunity? | 14:10 |
| med_ | #topic must be first on the line I think | 14:10 |
| mihalis68 | #topic Tokyo Ops Mid-Cycle Meetup | 14:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tokyo Ops Mid-Cycle Meetup (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:10 | |
| mihalis68 | thanks! | 14:10 |
| shintaro | yes mihalis68. breakfast+morning coffee is the main sponsorship so far. | 14:10 |
| mrhillsman | o/ | 14:11 |
| mihalis68 | good morning! | 14:11 |
| shintaro | hi | 14:11 |
| mihalis68 | #mihalis68 to confer with colleagues over whether Bloomberg can pick up breakfast+coffee sponsorship for Tokyo | 14:11 |
| mihalis68 | I have not checked in with the planning ether pad. How are we doing for technical agenda planning? | 14:12 |
| mihalis68 | Have you firmly decided on two tracks called Telecom and Other, respectively? | 14:12 |
| mihalis68 | As I recall there's only 3 rooms, so it can't be very parallelised | 14:12 |
| shintaro | right one large and two small | 14:13 |
| shintaro | if we are going to do hackathon-like documentation session, we will be needing one room for that. | 14:14 |
| mihalis68 | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Operations/Meetups/TYO-ops-meetup | 14:14 |
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| mihalis68 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TYO-ops-meetup-2018 | 14:15 |
| shintaro | no update on NFV track | 14:15 |
| mihalis68 | That seems to need some clarification. Is it "NFV" and "General" tracks and that's it? | 14:16 |
| mihalis68 | Themed track is vague if you've called it NFV previously | 14:16 |
| shintaro | I was thinking to have two themed track, one is NFV and one is Enterprise. one day each | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | it's your company's event as host, so I think you should just decide and represent the decision in that ether pad. Then It think we should try go get the community's attention | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | hmm, interesting. In my imagination, tracks imply parallel | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | if it's themed days I'd call them days, not tracks | 14:18 |
| mihalis68 | everyone else please weigh in here, it feels like typing at shintaro right now :| | 14:18 |
| med_ | I'd agree--tracks indicates parallelism, days is what I would call distinct focuses of each day | 14:19 |
| shintaro | ok it would be themed days then. | 14:19 |
| med_ | and I think having that type of focus is fine--not at all concerned whether we do tracks or days. | 14:19 |
| med_ | sounds fine. | 14:19 |
| mrhillsman | I'm indifferent...potatoe potahto | 14:20 |
| mrhillsman | agreed with med_ | 14:20 |
| mihalis68 | think of it like software requirement stories : I am a telecom focused attendee and I wish to attend all the telecom-focused sessions | 14:20 |
| mihalis68 | is that person only attending 1 day? | 14:20 |
| *** mriedem_away is now known as mriedem | 14:20 | |
| shintaro | if that person is not interested in any other topic, maybe yes, but general and enterprise sessions will cover many topics that may interest telcos as well, IMHO | 14:21 |
| mihalis68 | so it's two days with some mixed-audience sessions on each but in addition day 1 is focused on NFV? | 14:23 |
| mrhillsman | not sure we have to get that specific | 14:23 |
| shintaro | that's my idea | 14:23 |
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| mrhillsman | comment was meant to go further up | 14:24 |
| mihalis68 | I think when people look at such events, it's very important for them to understand clearly what it will be like | 14:24 |
| mrhillsman | agreed | 14:25 |
| mihalis68 | let me see if I have it, shintaro. The event is 2 days of general operators related technical sessions. In addition, day 1 has an NFV focus | 14:25 |
| shintaro | yes and day 2 have another track which I now think would be "Enterprise track" | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | so day one is general+nfv, day 2 is general+enterprise? | 14:26 |
| shintaro | yes | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | ok! I like that | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | perhaps that's what the google doc intended to convey but I didn't quite grasp it | 14:27 |
| shintaro | we have another room if anyone want to do some work | 14:27 |
| mihalis68 | cool | 14:27 |
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| mihalis68 | seems like all the business for tokyo. I | 14:27 |
| shintaro | I will update the etherpad | 14:27 |
| mihalis68 | I'll look at the google doc and try to help clarify. I can't edit it from my desk unfortunately (google docs is very locked down here) | 14:27 |
| mihalis68 | once it's good I propose this: email the meetups team for final comments. Unless there's an objection then share the planning doc again with the operators mailing list and ask people to start submitting session ideas | 14:28 |
| mihalis68 | taking silence as assent. Please object strenuously if I'm wrong | 14:29 |
| shintaro | do you mean share planning etherpad? | 14:29 |
| shintaro | or google doc? | 14:29 |
| med_ | concur | 14:29 |
| mihalis68 | #topic future mid-cycles - to co-locate or not that is the question | 14:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "future mid-cycles - to co-locate or not that is the question (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:29 | |
| mihalis68 | yes I meant the ether pad. google doc for precise agenda comes later | 14:30 |
| shintaro | okay got it | 14:30 |
| mihalis68 | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BgICOa-Mct9pKwjUEuYp_BSD1V_GdRLL_IM-BU0iPUw | 14:30 |
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| mihalis68 | The link I just posted is a discussion document about co-location | 14:31 |
| mihalis68 | it needs more work to capture the different views | 14:31 |
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| mihalis68 | As I understood it, originally the idea revolved around some inter-working between the operators and the developers | 14:31 |
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| mihalis68 | however the PTG is 5 solid days already filled with content | 14:31 |
| mihalis68 | last week after the meeting, I learned that there's some support for a separate event that just happens to be in the same facility | 14:32 |
| mihalis68 | this I (to be honest) don't really grok | 14:32 |
| med_ | well, they probably get the rooms/whatevs at the already discounted rate. | 14:33 |
| med_ | btw, how did you learn this? Lauren? | 14:33 |
| mihalis68 | I understand the bit about leveraging foundation logistics expertise to only have one venue to acquire | 14:33 |
| med_ | kk | 14:33 |
| mrhillsman | tie in support from foundation as ops meet up need | 14:33 |
| mihalis68 | mrhillsman was telling to stop worrying about the PTG part of it | 14:33 |
| med_ | nods. | 14:33 |
| mrhillsman | may grok better then | 14:33 |
| mihalis68 | but it raises as many questions as it answers | 14:34 |
| mihalis68 | would it be two separate events in evenbrite? Two teams doing agendas? | 14:34 |
| mrhillsman | that's perfectly ok | 14:34 |
| med_ | V W was concerned about lack of focus and lack of ... pureness if they were concurrent. | 14:34 |
| mihalis68 | would it still be "PTG" or would it be called something more inclusive | 14:34 |
| mrhillsman | sure, should be different as it is now | 14:34 |
| mriedem | pureness? | 14:35 |
| mrhillsman | the only point is, can this reduce some costs | 14:35 |
| med_ | I don't want to "wake" him, but something about keeping Operators as a discipline distinct from Devs mriedem | 14:35 |
| mihalis68 | unleash the Krake... the VW! | 14:35 |
| mriedem | i'm not sure why we should be silo'ed | 14:35 |
| med_ | but I'm poorly representing his POV. | 14:35 |
| mriedem | just because you're in the same venue doesn't mean you have to talk to each other | 14:36 |
| mrhillsman | or not :) | 14:36 |
| mriedem | it just makes it easier if you have agenda items that overlap | 14:36 |
| mihalis68 | that's true, but does the venue have to have multiple rooms with AV capabilities? | 14:36 |
| mriedem | or need operator (or dev) input to something | 14:36 |
| mihalis68 | the sessions where we get the ether pad up on a big screen seem helped by that | 14:37 |
| mrhillsman | talk in the evening :) | 14:37 |
| mrhillsman | surely there is A/V caps in multiple rooms at a hotel | 14:38 |
| mriedem | there was at the place in denver for the last ptg | 14:38 |
| mriedem | yes | 14:38 |
| mrhillsman | ^ | 14:39 |
| mihalis68 | yeah but think about NYC. There was clearly one main room | 14:39 |
| med_ | many actually | 14:39 |
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| mriedem | who coordinated NYC | 14:39 |
| mriedem | ? | 14:39 |
| mihalis68 | I did | 14:39 |
| mriedem | the foundation scouts out the location for the ptg | 14:39 |
| mriedem | they obviously didn't scout the train noise in denver, but... | 14:39 |
| mrhillsman | hehe | 14:39 |
| mriedem | the venue itself was ok for the actual work part | 14:39 |
| med_ | yep, they look for the place with the most train horns | 14:39 |
| mihalis68 | I think for the event to be a combined PTG and ops Meetup it would need to be redefined as that | 14:39 |
| mihalis68 | and then foundation would plan a combined event | 14:40 |
| mihalis68 | we'd be a "track" effectively | 14:40 |
| mrhillsman | it's not combined my friend | 14:40 |
| mihalis68 | it is combined from their point of view | 14:40 |
| med_ | collocated is what you are thinking mrhillsman | 14:40 |
| mihalis68 | same dates same location | 14:40 |
| mihalis68 | they are doing logistics - people, rooms, catering | 14:40 |
| mrhillsman | who's viewpoint? | 14:40 |
| mihalis68 | the proposal combines those things | 14:41 |
| med_ | I think that's a matter of marketing/splitting hairs. | 14:41 |
| mrhillsman | ^ | 14:41 |
| med_ | the devs define the content, tracks in ptg | 14:41 |
| med_ | not the foundation | 14:41 |
| mrhillsman | which is not our concern | 14:41 |
| mihalis68 | the definition of PTG is on the foundation website. The definition should be expanded if the venue is hosting an operators meet up at the same time as the PTG, surely? | 14:42 |
| smcginnis | This might help as far as putting on the event. But I'm concerned on whether it would help having devs involved in more ops discussions. | 14:42 |
| mrhillsman | we are only discussing costs and man/woman hours on making the event happen by including staff for ops logistics needs | 14:42 |
| mihalis68 | we are discussing the whole thing | 14:42 |
| mihalis68 | because as a proposal it hasn't been accepted by the community | 14:42 |
| mrhillsman | let the foundation be concerned with foundation concerns | 14:42 |
| mihalis68 | hi smcginnis, by the way! | 14:43 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: o/ | 14:43 |
| * med_ notes that he would be able to get more out of his travel dollars if they were co-located and get more from the event.... | 14:43 | |
| smcginnis | med_: That would be a benefit for sure. | 14:43 |
| mihalis68 | smcginnis I think it wouldn't help that, since the devs are at an event dedicated to dev issues, by definition | 14:43 |
| mihalis68 | I don't see random bar encounters as a substiture | 14:44 |
| mihalis68 | substitute | 14:44 |
| mriedem | it depends on the topic in the room at the time, | 14:44 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: Yeah, I agree. | 14:44 |
| mriedem | in denver, the first two days were cross-project things | 14:44 |
| mriedem | like fast forward upgrades, interop, API SIG, etc | 14:44 |
| mriedem | wed-friday are traditional meetup-style silo'ed roms, | 14:44 |
| mriedem | *rooms, | 14:44 |
| mriedem | but we do overlap for scheduled topics, | 14:44 |
| smcginnis | During the PTG I was double booked almost the entire week as far as discussions I wanted to be in. This wouldn't help me, but it may help others. | 14:44 |
| mriedem | like nova/neutron, nova/cinder, etc | 14:44 |
| mihalis68 | maybe PTG is defined too narrowly in the foundation page. At risk of repeating myself, having read it closely, it's not for me | 14:45 |
| mriedem | from my pov, i can't travel to ptg and summit *and* an opts midcycle, so colocating 2 of those would be helpful | 14:45 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 14:45 |
| mriedem | mihalis68: yes they'd have to redefine that probably | 14:45 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: As it is right now, yes, it is not really meant for ops. | 14:46 |
| mihalis68 | PTG says you should be either on a dev team, or a subject matter expert where the subject is one of the development activities | 14:46 |
| mihalis68 | this is what I am getting at | 14:46 |
| lbragstad | having some operator representation during the PTG would be nice - otherwise we're waiting two months to share what we came up with at the PTG with operators for feedback | 14:46 |
| mihalis68 | we now seem to have a view that co-location would be for inter-working | 14:46 |
| med_ | ah, but if they schedule another event simultaneously, that changes. | 14:46 |
| med_ | it could be another event at the same place -OR- they could change the definition. I think either approach would be fine. | 14:47 |
| mihalis68 | I'd totally attend PTG if I felt remotely encouraged | 14:47 |
| mriedem | lbragstad: well you wait 2 months for the summit, in australia, where no ops have budget to travel anyway :) | 14:47 |
| lbragstad | or that | 14:47 |
| mihalis68 | at least those two days which seem set up for cooperation | 14:47 |
| mrhillsman | lbragstad PTG should be based on previous Forum discussions | 14:47 |
| mriedem | mrhillsman: not necessarily | 14:48 |
| mriedem | the ptg replaced the midcycle and dev summit, | 14:48 |
| mrhillsman | According to the change yes | 14:48 |
| mriedem | so it's part planning for the upcoming release | 14:48 |
| med_ | I've been at both PTGs. Knowledgeable, contributing operators were very welcome. | 14:48 |
| smcginnis | med_: ++ | 14:48 |
| mriedem | and it's part talking about shit that is still broken and needs work, w/o 40 minute time boxed sessions | 14:48 |
| mrhillsman | Looking at the lifecycle graphic and explanations | 14:48 |
| mrhillsman | It is supposed to move towards that | 14:49 |
| smcginnis | I think in reality we want to have some dev representation at ops events and some ops representation at dev events. The Summit is really what's conceived as the focus for full interaction at this point, but there should probably always be a little mix. | 14:49 |
| mihalis68 | well this is much easier for me to understand : first two days of PTG become officially slightly broader and we declare those to be effectively the mid-cycle meetup | 14:49 |
| lbragstad | not sure if we were supposed to - but our project spent a significant amount of time redesigning some stuff that has cross-project implications... that's where we really wanted operator feedback (like 10,000 ft view of what we came up with) | 14:49 |
| mihalis68 | the question for those who in any way represent the dev teams is : is that acceptable to them? | 14:50 |
| med_ | mihalis68, if you want a 2d on that idea, I'm the 2d | 14:51 |
| med_ | thingee, ^ | 14:51 |
| mrhillsman | the issue with that change is what VW was alluding to | 14:51 |
| mihalis68 | thanks med_ ... am I wrong or is this idea quite different from where we ended last week? | 14:51 |
| mrhillsman | losing ops focus mihalis68 | 14:51 |
| med_ | mihalis68, it's different from where we ended but closer to where we started a few weeks/months ago. | 14:51 |
| mriedem | "first two days of PTG become officially slightly broader and we declare those to be effectively the mid-cycle meetup" - describes, to me, what used to be the old dev summit format | 14:51 |
| med_ | the folks endorsing this idea SEEM TO BE KEY DEV LEADERS and it seems like they approve. | 14:52 |
| mriedem | except it's not mid-cycle at all, since it's at the beginning of the cycle | 14:52 |
| mrhillsman | exactly | 14:52 |
| mrhillsman | if we stop trying to put the two events together we can move forward | 14:52 |
| med_ | and understand that we (ops) won't have even kicked the tires on the just released bits, that feedback will have to come at the Forum in the summit still. | 14:53 |
| mrhillsman | it comes down to ops midcycle asked foundation for logistical support | 14:53 |
| mrhillsman | this is an option to ease foundation work, costs, etc etc | 14:53 |
| mrhillsman | in doing that | 14:53 |
| mihalis68 | mrhillsman you've communicated your opinion on this, but there are others | 14:53 |
| mrhillsman | if it will not, we should not | 14:53 |
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| mrhillsman | because we will lose the "pureness" of ops, as VW mentioned | 14:53 |
| mihalis68 | what I'm seeing above is a desire to get ops into PTG, at least on days 1 and 2 from several people | 14:54 |
| mihalis68 | not just at same hotel, but in same room, discussing shared challenges | 14:54 |
| mrhillsman | yes, that makes sense, the PTG site you referenced covers this no? | 14:54 |
| mihalis68 | no PTG *as defined on openstack foundation website* seems to specifically welcome just dev team and software SMEs | 14:55 |
| smcginnis | I think collocation could be useful as long as it's not intended as combination. It at least gives the opportunity for cross-collaboration. And being around each other for evening drinks can definitely have benefits too, even if the daytime sessions have too many conflicts. | 14:55 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: I consider you all SME's. :) | 14:55 |
| mihalis68 | the S is not any specific chunk of software | 14:56 |
| mriedem | i think he means SME on a particular project | 14:56 |
| mihalis68 | yeah | 14:56 |
| mriedem | like cburgess on nova | 14:56 |
| med_ | fwiw, entire teams (cinder/nova) frequently join together for an hour or two (same any time during the week) as well as individual stakeholders/experts cross pollinating on an as needed/as owned basis | 14:56 |
| med_ | ie, the etherpad says: Grab Jay Pipes for this one | 14:56 |
| med_ | or grab miihallis68 when we talk about this | 14:56 |
| smcginnis | Yes, but still subject matter experts in general on a lot of things. | 14:56 |
| mihalis68 | I run an openstack team and in the past I built all our clusters, but I wouldn't consider myself an expert on any specific topic in the list | 14:57 |
| mrhillsman | how many operators attend ptg, i think we mentioned 5 or six | 14:57 |
| mihalis68 | we sent nobody who actually does things here. | 14:57 |
| mrhillsman | if the content of the overlap days is still ptg specific | 14:57 |
| mrhillsman | how does that change? | 14:57 |
| mihalis68 | Literally if any people represented bloomberg they do not participate in on-call support at any level | 14:57 |
| mriedem | for nova, we generally get 2 ops | 14:57 |
| mriedem | med_: and cbrugess | 14:57 |
| med_ | but you could have--I think there was a tradeoff/self-selection | 14:58 |
| mriedem | *cburgess | 14:58 |
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| * med_ nods, was there all week, but it was also "local" | 14:58 | |
| mrhillsman | my point i guess is, if there is no change in content right now, and no change in content if we go this route, how is there a change in attendance | 14:58 |
| mihalis68 | I could have attended, but it seemed not for me. My team all came to same conclusion (I asked them to consider going) | 14:58 |
| med_ | but traveld to atlanta for same reasons | 14:58 |
| med_ | kk | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | we're gonna run out of time here. | 14:59 |
| mrhillsman | right mihalis68 so why push combining the content/schedule/days | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | on the agenda I reminded people of the converted Operators Guide | 14:59 |
| mriedem | we do get better ops attendance at the forum for sure | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | mrhillsman it was suggested as a possible good thing by PTG attendees during this very meeting | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | e.g. sean | 15:00 |
| mrhillsman | i think that was an evolution of the focus on combining events | 15:00 |
| mihalis68 | no, I don't think so at all | 15:00 |
| mrhillsman | vs staying on the focus of ops midcycle needing help on logistics | 15:00 |
| mihalis68 | there is one viewpoint that says get ops in for days 1 and 2 | 15:00 |
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| mrhillsman | i think last meeting we spent quite a bit of time trying to keep the conversation on the latter | 15:01 |
| mihalis68 | out of time | 15:01 |
| mihalis68 | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion of topics related to operating Openstack infrastructures at scale | Mailing list: http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators | Logs: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 21 15:01:41 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2017/ops_meetup_team.2017-11-21-14.00.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2017/ops_meetup_team.2017-11-21-14.00.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2017/ops_meetup_team.2017-11-21-14.00.log.html | 15:01 |
| mihalis68 | thanks all | 15:01 |
| smcginnis | Thanks everyone. | 15:01 |
| med_ | thanks all. mihalis68 thanks for organizing/running | 15:02 |
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| mihalis68 | you're most welcome | 15:03 |
| mihalis68 | I think the document about this topic needs more work | 15:03 |
| mihalis68 | there's 3 ideas at least | 15:03 |
| mihalis68 | separate event completely | 15:03 |
| mihalis68 | co-located meetup | 15:03 |
| mihalis68 | joining PTG on days 1 & 2 | 15:04 |
| mihalis68 | 1. is hard - see mexico | 15:04 |
| mihalis68 | 2. is what mrhillsman is advocating | 15:04 |
| mihalis68 | I feel there are many questions about that | 15:04 |
| mihalis68 | 3. is something sean and matt seemed to like. maybe med_ too? | 15:04 |
| mihalis68 | and me | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | 2 or 3 could have some benefits. | 15:05 |
| med_ | I'm fine with 2 or 3 as well. I think that's more of a communications approach. I had actually initially proposed days 2 and 3 (so part of the cross talk time and part of the pure time) we'd have to manage our topics pretty well. | 15:06 |
| mrhillsman | i'm not advocating for 2 specifically | 15:06 |
| med_ | it would be much less opportunity to have a themed day (such as we have proposed for Tokyo) unless that themed day occured say on day 3 of the combined PTG-Ops | 15:07 |
| med_ | lots of options.... | 15:07 |
| mrhillsman | whichever makes sense based on ops midcycle need that sparked the conversation works for me; without losing ops midcycle content | 15:07 |
| smcginnis | med_: That could work to allow each group to have both dedicated time to focus on their own topics and some time to try to interact more. | 15:07 |
| mihalis68 | Here's the text from the website I was thinking of: | 15:07 |
| mihalis68 | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/tpDmEC0q/ | 15:07 |
| mihalis68 | that's from https://www.openstack.org/ptg/ | 15:08 |
| med_ | yep, that's correct. So I dedicate my time in the Nova room (though clearly I am interested in many more topics than Nova.) But I can't scale to hit all the rooms so the focus helps the devs and helps me. | 15:08 |
| med_ | earlier in the week (the first two days) I have more flexibility but since I said I'd be in the OSLO Client room, I missed the LTS/FFU talks completely. | 15:09 |
| med_ | They were very operator-ish. | 15:09 |
| med_ | I think the FFU/skip upgrade talks were essentially operator ... "themed" though inadvertently perhaps. | 15:10 |
| med_ | we are the very SMEs that proposed such a thing | 15:10 |
| med_ | though it was a dev discussion | 15:10 |
| * med_ is relying on word of mouth/memory as he wasn't in the room but got that feeling from those who were. | 15:11 | |
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| med_ | I'd go waaaaaaaay out on a limb to say that that specific theme may be what has ... informed the Foundation Staff to consider co-location. | 15:11 |
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| mihalis68 | I think we have to work on this a lot more. The observation that it's no longer mid-cycle is very apropos | 15:13 |
| mihalis68 | we're continuing to operate a system put in place by Tom for a cycle that has changed | 15:14 |
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| med_ | nod | 15:18 |
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| VW | sorry, mihalis68, med_, mrhillsman - wasn't able to be online earlier today | 15:26 |
| med_ | no worries VW. | 15:26 |
| med_ | Please read scrollback. I'm surely a poorly advocated your position on meetup co-location/separation | 15:26 |
| VW | I think you covered it, but I'll re-read | 15:29 |
| * med_ is heading off to breakfast, will read scrollback later. | 15:34 | |
| mihalis68 | no worries VW | 15:40 |
| mihalis68 | to summarise recklessly, Tokyo is moving forwards, PTG co-location is absolutely not decided in any way, and then we ran out of time | 15:41 |
| VW | sounds similar to the session in SYD :) | 15:42 |
| mihalis68 | +1 | 15:42 |
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| VW | one thing we did discuss in SYD though, mihalis68 was how we can maybe start to make the output of midcycle sessions (at least some) be a sumbission for Forum topics | 16:17 |
| VW | or at least designees to do so | 16:17 |
| mihalis68 | VW one thing someone pointed out earlier is it's no longer mid-cycle, it's start-cycle. This raises the issue of do we need to rethink the entire plan for when operators get together. I think yes | 16:18 |
| mihalis68 | and connecting our meetups work to forum is an important part of that | 16:18 |
| mihalis68 | I just emailed the openstack-operators mailing list to try to crack this topic wide open | 16:18 |
| mihalis68 | reminding myself this is just the meetups team, not some kind of "operators committee" | 16:19 |
| mrhillsman | VW the forum, as i understand, is to discuss already released, which can help during ptg to say, 'we should spend more time here vs there', in part so if i am on newton, maybe a team or two decides to focus on some technical debt; prioritize something other than a new feature i mean | 16:21 |
| VW | I disagree slightly | 16:23 |
| VW | the forum is about HOW the software should behave. Some of that could very well be related to the most recent release | 16:24 |
| VW | but a lot of it should be other things Operaters need the software to do | 16:24 |
| VW | ie new features | 16:24 |
| VW | I don't think it's specifically all one thing or another | 16:24 |
| mrhillsman | agreed | 16:24 |
| mrhillsman | i should have qualified it better, like 80/20 | 16:25 |
| VW | the PTG then figures out how to make the magic :) | 16:25 |
| mrhillsman | right | 16:25 |
| mrhillsman | while there may be 100 deployments for example, 2% may be on the latest, so teams could delay a bit re new features, at the ptg | 16:25 |
| VW | fair enough | 16:26 |
| VW | it's hard | 16:26 |
| VW | :D | 16:26 |
| mrhillsman | yeah, it's not a one-way thing | 16:27 |
| mrhillsman | general feedback i have gotten is quite a few folks would like to shore up technical debt vs adding on more | 16:27 |
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| VW | and that's very valid | 16:28 |
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