Tuesday, 2018-02-20

« Monday, 2018-02-19 Index Wednesday, 2018-02-21 »
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shintarohi15:00
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mihalis68o/15:00
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mihalis68#startmeeting Ops Meetup Team15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 20 15:00:43 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mihalis68. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ops_meetup_team'15:00
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mihalis68#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-meetups-team15:00
emccormicko/15:00
mihalis68Greetings, Programs!15:01
mihalis68#topic actions15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)"15:01
shintarohi15:01
smcginniso/15:01
mihalis68I was due to update the ops guide wiki with the first round of feedback. I haven't done it but I have the feedback right here (from David Medberry) and I will update today15:01
mihalis68any other comments on actions from previous meetings?15:02
emccormickI spammed the list for more sessions / moderators.15:02
shintaroI was to ask the Foundation for admin access to the eventbrite page waiting response from the foundation15:02
emccormickWill do again for moderators15:02
mihalis68agreed, that's urgent15:02
shintaroI am asking some attendees in Japan to do some moderation15:02
mihalis68I don't think the attendees would appreciate us doing all the moderation15:03
mihalis68#topic Tokyo meetup15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Tokyo meetup (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)"15:03
shintaro60 people so far15:03
mihalis68I just saw the invoice about Bloomberg's sponsorship of coffee and snacks15:03
mihalis68somehow I missed it first time15:03
mihalis68I will get that paid today15:03
shintarothanks mihjalis6815:03
mihalis68#action mihalis68 update opsguide wiki15:03
shintaromihalis68 I mean15:03
emccormickGive me the list of attendees. I'll volunteer people for them. :D15:04
mihalis68#action mihalis68 pay invoice for tokyo sponsorship15:04
mihalis68it's linked from last week's minutes IIR15:04
mihalis68IIRC15:04
mihalis68anything else to discuss about Tokyo? with my payment I think the food and drink is all taken care of15:05
mihalis68we already agreed to try and get more moderators.15:05
mihalis68are we ready to fill out the actual time slots with sessions?15:05
emccormickI think we should go ahead and take a first run at it15:06
shintaroI can create the draft15:06
mihalis68excellent15:06
mihalis68want to email this team?15:06
mihalis68when there's something to look at?15:06
shintaroI will15:06
mihalis68#action shintaro to create a draft timetable (putting sessions in time slots) and email the team15:06
mihalis68anything else for Tokyo?15:07
mihalis68#topic meet up number 2 201815:07
*** openstack changes topic to "meet up number 2 2018 (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)"15:07
mihalis68I was due to conference call with verizon and walmart (andrew mitry) last week about the possibility of a joint hosting offer15:08
VWhey folks - here15:08
VWI just had to step away a second15:08
mihalis68however I was too sick to speak for more than 2 minutes so I pushed it15:08
mihalis68hey matt15:08
mihalis68so I'm due to speak to the soon15:08
mihalis68We're already talking about meet up 2 201815:08
VWsweet!15:08
mihalis68The very fact that this meeting is still on implies there's decent interest15:09
mihalis68If Andrew is interested, perhaps they would like it to be down there (reston VA/Wash DC area). That would also work as far as I am concerned15:09
VWthat might be a cool spot15:09
emccormickI would do a snoopy dance if that happened15:09
mihalis68(andrew is on the walmart openstack team for those who don't know him, he literally presented in a Walmart 'associates vest' in Boston IIRC)15:09
emccormickMItry?15:10
mihalis68yep15:10
emccormickHe also helped organize the Philly meetup when he was with Comcast15:10
mihalis68the clue was given above15:10
emccormickDidn't know he was getting involved :)15:10
mihalis68that's right15:10
mihalis68here's the clue from earlier "I was due to conference call with verizon and walmart (andrew mitry) last week about the possibility of a joint hosting offer"15:10
mihalis68:)15:10
mihalis68I was at the philly one, that seems like a long time ago15:10
emccormickoh, I missed the "and wal-mart" the first time ;)15:11
mrhillsmano/15:11
mihalis68hey mrhillsman!15:11
emccormickHi Melvin!15:11
mihalis68we are discussing meet up #2. I am due to conf. call with verizon and walmart later this week about it15:11
emccormickok, so good traction for meetup #2 in the Northeast.15:12
mihalis68seems so15:12
VWsweet15:12
emccormickIf it's here I can certainly help Andrew and crew with things.15:12
mihalis68cool15:12
mrhillsmangot it, just read through backlog, great news15:12
mihalis68I think for anyone outside of NE USA, DC area and NYC area are equally convenient, and for those of us here, the trip is fine15:13
mrhillsmanapologies for my tardinress15:13
mihalis68no.. thanks for joining. I think this time slot is working better15:13
mihalis68any more about meet up 2 for now?15:13
mihalis68#topic ops guide wiki15:13
*** openstack changes topic to "ops guide wiki (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)"15:13
mihalis68as mentioned I'll make a start updating it soon15:14
mihalis68the other question that popped into my mind - do we need to coordinate with any openstack docs team? Now it's a community wiki is it just up to whoever wants to improve it?15:14
mihalis68I guess that was the point? It was ejected from their formal process due to no input?15:15
smcginnisThey would probably be open to providing input, but I think for the most part, the docs team doesn't need to be involved in this one.15:15
mrhillsmanyeah, the issue was not enough folks providing feedback/fixes15:15
mrhillsmanmore feedback than fixes, they were willing to make the corrections15:16
mihalis68The guy who helped with the conversion asked me if any other dead documents should be wikified. For example he said the "architecture guide"? Maybe others?15:16
mrhillsmanyes, i believe the boston forum we discussed additional ones, i think the high availability one as well was on the list15:16
mrhillsmanmaybe reach out to docs team on which ones are "dead"15:17
mrhillsmansome of them are no longer listed on docs.o.o i believe15:17
shintaroArchi guide and HA guide is still alive I think.15:17
mihalis68if you have links, please send them to me. If the conversion process is the same as for the OpsGuide, we could do that work too. I'm not setting up as a general document processing facility, but for this one-off process, it's kind of fiddly and we have it working (well, my contractor really)15:17
shintaro#link https://docs.openstack.org/queens/15:17
emccormickHA guide needs a complete redo15:17
emccormickI think it even predates DVR, L3-HA and a bunch of other stuff. It's all pacemaker-oriented.15:18
mihalis68TBH I've never read it15:18
mrhillsmanok, they are there :)15:18
mihalis68I think the other candidates were not officially dead, but perhaps looking like heading that way15:18
mrhillsmanha guide folks have not had any meetings since last july15:18
mihalis68(ops guide was pronounced dead by docs team)15:18
emccormickzombie docs.15:19
mrhillsmanas an example to confirm your statement15:19
mihalis68well, it's an offer, if the community sees docs that have fallen off the wagon of the official process but might live on as wiki content, and if they are in a similar technical state to the Operators Guide, then we could get that done15:20
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emccormickI definitely think we should bring it up with the docs team.15:20
emccormickThey are pretty clearly stale.15:20
mihalis68does anyone here attend their regular meeting?15:20
mrhillsman--15:21
mihalis68I dropped in once but it was mostly about tools and a CI/CD system that I don't know anything about15:21
emccormickAny PTG attendee want to pay them a visit next week?15:21
mihalis68is that code for "i do" mrhillsman?15:21
mrhillsmani don't lol15:21
mrhillsman++ < i do15:22
smcginnisI would try to, but I already know I'm triple booked most of the time.15:22
mihalis68well that segues into a topic I have for any other business15:22
mihalis68#topic any other business15:22
*** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)"15:22
VWsorry - distracted15:23
VWI'll be at the PTG emccormick15:23
VWwhat do you need15:23
mrhillsmanwell, uc elections are happening now, just a reminder, you and your constituents should have a ballot15:23
mihalis68that topic would be good to mention to PTG attendees - any other official docs that need to be converted to wiki and released to the community15:23
mrhillsmanvoting started yesterday15:23
mihalis68and the other topic that affects us strongly and might be discussed at PTG is release cadence and LTS releases. Sean remind me is that on the agenda?15:24
smcginnisYes, I believe that will be discussed Monday.15:24
smcginnisI will try to be there as much as possible and bring what I can to Tokyo.15:24
mihalis68excellent15:24
emccormickvw just talk to the docs team about whether the HA Guide and Architecture guide should go the way of the Ops guide.15:26
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mihalis68can you do that VW?15:26
mihalis68I'd like to action him if he can15:27
mihalis68in the meanwhile, does anyone know if the distro vendors will represent at the meeting on monday re: release cadence, lts etc?15:29
VWyeah - I can do that15:29
mihalis68cool15:29
mihalis68#action VW to ask openstack docs folks whether OS Arch Guide and HA Guide documents should be wikified as per the operators guide15:29
VWif so, I can try to bring that thumbs up/thumbs down back to ehre15:30
mihalis68in Mexico we had both Redhat and Canonical representation and they definitely added their weight behind serious discussions of change in cadence and support for LTS releases15:30
mihalis68however I am not sure as much was heard in the email thread from Thierry15:30
mihalis68as much as I could follow that, it seemed to be "ugh, that's more work, and we have fewer people, it will never work" almost whatever it" was15:31
emccormickThe last takeaway from the forum was that people wanted and were willing to provide their own CI to maintain releases beyond EOL15:32
emccormickto include RH / Canonical / Suse15:32
emccormickand several large groups.15:32
emccormickthe change of release cadence seemed to go over like a lead balloon though15:32
mihalis68that seems halfhearted to me, sorry15:32
VWstill think we are focused on the wrong problem.  We should be making the releases much less painful/more transparent to tenants15:33
emccormickwell, the main reasons for no foundation-led LTS were several.15:33
smcginnisThe main focus in the community now is making fast forward upgrade easier.15:34
smcginnisI still think any kind of LTS needs to be a vendor led effort.15:34
emccormickLack of stable branch resources (both people and equipment), escalating broken dependencies were the big ones.15:34
mihalis68yeah, the reason I mention redhat is they are the biggest contributor now I believe15:34
emccormickStable branch agreed not to delete Newton though15:35
emccormickso even though it may not be supported, it's still going to be there.15:35
mihalis68I missed that, that's good15:35
emccormickso now we need to get to: Who's going to maintain it and how.15:35
emccormickI agree it should be vendor led.15:36
emccormickThey are already doing it.15:36
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emccormickLots of big companies carry their own patches though, and many of those could be pushed upstream.15:36
mihalis68maybe they need to work together more - if a release is still available "upstream" they can just upstream a fix, so much easier15:36
mihalis68emccormick are you going to PTG?15:37
mihalis68for the record, VW, I don't think reducing friction in fast forward updates is all that's required, not at all15:38
mihalis68but then I'm trapped behind the nova-network->neutron change15:38
emccormicksadly no15:39
emccormickI wish I was. I love Ireland.15:39
emccormickTokyo is taking all my money15:39
mihalis68Well, I think that may be it this week. At least two of us will be in PTG next week, should we omit next week's meeting?15:40
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VWprobably15:40
VWbut I'm happy to try and jump on if you have it15:41
VWdepending on where I am on Tuesday at this time15:41
emccormick5 straight openstack trips that are a minimum 6 hours flight from home and all international. $$$15:41
mihalis68let's just leave it unspecified for now. I'll see if there's enough people for a real meeting. if not I'll call it early15:41
emccormickwoof15:41
emccormickVW You'll be at a pub15:42
mihalis68final call for comments this week, or we can give back almost 20 minutes to everyone15:42
emccormick:D15:42
mihalis68that's where the best openstack business happens AS YOU WELL KNOW15:42
emccormickindeed15:42
mihalis68#endmeeting15:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Discussion of topics related to operating Openstack infrastructures at scale | Mailing list: http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators | Logs: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/"15:42
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 20 15:42:33 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:42
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2018/ops_meetup_team.2018-02-20-15.00.html15:42
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2018/ops_meetup_team.2018-02-20-15.00.txt15:42
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2018/ops_meetup_team.2018-02-20-15.00.log.html15:42
shintarothank you all15:42
mihalis68thanks everyone. Pagers have fun, bring us back lots of ... clarity15:42
mihalis68PTGers*15:42
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