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| tobberydberg | Reminder that we have bi-weekly meeting in 2 hours - 1400 UTC in this channel! | 12:01 |
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| miouge | Hi there :) | 13:00 |
| gtema | hey | 13:00 |
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| tobberydberg | Hi miouge and gtema | 13:47 |
| NilsMagnus | gtema is probably semi-offline, but I shall stand in | 13:51 |
| NilsMagnus | how was your flight back, did you re-adapt so far? | 13:51 |
| NilsMagnus | do we have a minutes pad? | 13:53 |
| tobberydberg | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-wg | 13:53 |
| tobberydberg | Hehehe....well...pretty horrible way back, delayed flight out of Denver, causing missed flight back to Sweden in Chicago ... staying the night there, back the next day with an extra flight, no luggage, waiting in luggage area for 4 h for first out of 2 bags .... :-) | 13:55 |
| tobberydberg | Not really in the timezone yet :-) How about you? | 13:55 |
| miouge | Ouch, that doesn't sounds fun | 13:56 |
| NilsMagnus | I was lucky to grab an upgrade to Business, which was very slick | 13:56 |
| tobberydberg | hehe ... that sounds a little bit better! :-) | 13:56 |
| NilsMagnus | But it's a 19-hour-ride anyway | 13:57 |
| tobberydberg | Yea, not the most fun parts of the trip :-) | 13:58 |
| tobberydberg | #startmeeting publiccloud_wg | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 9 14:01:30 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tobberydberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: publiccloud_wg)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'publiccloud_wg' | 14:01 |
| tobberydberg | Hello folks! Nice to see you all here! o/ | 14:01 |
| tobberydberg | Agenda found at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-wg | 14:02 |
| tobberydberg | #topic 1. Migrating to SIG | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "1. Migrating to SIG (Meeting topic: publiccloud_wg)" | 14:03 | |
| tobberydberg | Most of you were probably around in Denver, we have been talking for some time of migrating to a SIG, which will now happen ... that work is in progress | 14:04 |
| tobberydberg | Will not really be any different for us, just more follow where the community is going | 14:04 |
| NilsMagnus | change 655354 was merged, is there anything else to do? | 14:05 |
| tobberydberg | There are a few more things to be done | 14:06 |
| tobberydberg | renaming stuff mostly in various places | 14:06 |
| tobberydberg | but not much more than that | 14:06 |
| mriedem | o/ | 14:06 |
| tobberydberg | welcome mriedem | 14:06 |
| tobberydberg | Questions on that topic? | 14:06 |
| tobberydberg | #topic 2. Denver discussions | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "2. Denver discussions (Meeting topic: publiccloud_wg)" | 14:09 | |
| tobberydberg | We had a few forum sessions | 14:09 |
| tobberydberg | deletion of resources and change of ownership | 14:10 |
| tobberydberg | Good attention on those with some good outcome | 14:10 |
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| tobberydberg | "deletion of resources" will happen, or at least a start to get the baseline in place to be able to continue that work | 14:10 |
| tobberydberg | Monty will implement a base in shade together with adriant | 14:11 |
| mriedem | s/shade/openstacksdk/ | 14:11 |
| tobberydberg | right | 14:12 |
| tobberydberg | also a volunteer for the base support in OSC | 14:12 |
| tobberydberg | gtema | 14:13 |
| tobberydberg | (thought he was around here earlier) | 14:13 |
| ncastele | do we plan to base the work from what has been done with ospurge (https://github.com/openstack/ospurge) or starting "from scratch"? | 14:13 |
| tobberydberg | "Change of ownership" action from the Forum was to float that by the projects in PTG | 14:14 |
| tobberydberg | melwitt did that, with the answer " I discussed the idea with the cinder and neutron teams at the PTG and they are OK with the plan" | 14:15 |
| NilsMagnus | gtema is probably working on the integration in SDK, not sure about OSC | 14:15 |
| tobberydberg | ncastele - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DEN-Deletion-of-resources | 14:15 |
| tobberydberg | It will be more "natively" integrated in the official tools/libraries (shade/openstacksdk/OSC) | 14:16 |
| ncastele | make sense, thanks | 14:17 |
| NilsMagnus | so actually the work is done in SDK/OSC, what are actions here in PC-WG/SIG? | 14:17 |
| tobberydberg | Initially to followup that work | 14:17 |
| NilsMagnus | ack | 14:18 |
| tobberydberg | And will probably also be to push that idea to the other teams once the base parts are in place | 14:18 |
| tobberydberg | As you can read in the etherpad, one idea is to let every project implement a purge api call ... if that exists, use that etc etc | 14:19 |
| tobberydberg | But very glad this is finally happening | 14:19 |
| tobberydberg | Change of ownership will be a followup task for us as well | 14:20 |
| tobberydberg | questions on that before we move to the billing initiative? | 14:20 |
| NilsMagnus | fine with me | 14:21 |
| ncastele | fine with me | 14:21 |
| tobberydberg | so, "joint development effort for billing" | 14:22 |
| tobberydberg | A "thing" that has been talked a bit about over the last years basically | 14:22 |
| NilsMagnus | are there any written guidelines or designs for that? | 14:22 |
| tobberydberg | NilsMagnus not at this point no | 14:22 |
| ncastele | don't think so. We all have our custom implementation | 14:23 |
| tobberydberg | Background story is - all public clouds (also private clouds) do their billing today in different ways, some use official openstack projects, some don't | 14:23 |
| NilsMagnus | I really like the idea, but I have to admit that it might be hard to pitch this to our guys that do actual billing right now, taking into account the pain it caused in the past. That may or may not apply also to others? | 14:24 |
| tobberydberg | Also, basically no one feel that the solutions offered in openstack official projects today solves their needs | 14:24 |
| ncastele | we discussed in Denver about collecting our needs first, to ensure projects like Cloudkitty does not cover them | 14:25 |
| tobberydberg | NilsMagnus Might be so - and this is pretty early in the process as well | 14:25 |
| ncastele | It will help to limit the project also | 14:25 |
| tobberydberg | exactly ncastele | 14:25 |
| NilsMagnus | I haven't seen a pad for that. Does it make sense to open one to collect demands? | 14:26 |
| tobberydberg | I know a lot of us have ideas around this topic, some that are not around today as well | 14:26 |
| tobberydberg | Yes | 14:26 |
| tobberydberg | My suggestion is as follow: | 14:26 |
| tobberydberg | 1. We create an etherpad for initial brainstorming | 14:27 |
| tobberydberg | 2. We schedule a meeting specifically for this topic to discuss all ideas | 14:27 |
| tobberydberg | 3. We create a spec for how this could work | 14:27 |
| tobberydberg | 4. We reach out on mailing list to the community for feedback and thought around this | 14:28 |
| tobberydberg | What do you all think is a good way moving forward on this? | 14:28 |
| NilsMagnus | +1*4. Is there a naming convention on the pad's names? | 14:29 |
| ncastele | I already talked with cloudkitty in Denver about our initiative, they are aware about it and understand why we are doing this, but we need to ensure they have a place somewhere in the process to avoid some "political issues" and other stuff | 14:29 |
| tobberydberg | Not really NilsMagnus - but maybe something like "publiccloud-sig-billing-implementation-proposal" or something in that way :-) | 14:29 |
| tobberydberg | Totally agree with that ncastele | 14:30 |
| miouge | I'm not super familiar with Cloud Kitty, but I know of a couple of openstack public cloud using CloudKitty for rating, then sending that to their billing system | 14:30 |
| tobberydberg | Yes. We don't use it | 14:31 |
| ncastele | this is why we need to challenge cloudkitty just after the spec, and before any development, perhaps they will be able to help for some topic | 14:31 |
| tobberydberg | +1 | 14:31 |
| tobberydberg | Definitely before development takes place | 14:32 |
| miouge | For those using it, I do not know how much custom patches were required to get things working | 14:32 |
| ncastele | I don't know any public cloud provider using cloudkitty at huge scale like some of us have, but we need to ensure why we're not using it regarding our specs | 14:32 |
| tobberydberg | In this discussion we had around this we also talked about getting public clouds to put in upstream effort in this "project" | 14:33 |
| tobberydberg | Also something that would be good to bring some clarity in the process, what resources we will have and what time commitment we can give into this | 14:34 |
| tobberydberg | Today all companies spend a lot of time implementing their own solutions, so much more worth joining up and putting some of that effort into this | 14:35 |
| ncastele | yes. I know some of us are able to provide internal resources to make it work so we will probably be able to build a team around this | 14:36 |
| tobberydberg | I think and hope so to | 14:36 |
| tobberydberg | but that will be part of the process | 14:37 |
| NilsMagnus | I made a new pad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-sig-billing-implementation-proposal | 14:37 |
| tobberydberg | More thoughts around this at this point? | 14:37 |
| tobberydberg | +1 - thanks NilsMagnus | 14:38 |
| tobberydberg | I added it to the etherpad | 14:38 |
| tobberydberg | Time plan for the initial steps? | 14:38 |
| miouge | Should we reach out to other public clouds (like passport) to see if they are interested in participating in the billing thing? | 14:39 |
| tobberydberg | Yes, definitely | 14:39 |
| NilsMagnus | what about collecting ideas (step 11) until next meeting? | 14:39 |
| NilsMagnus | s/11/1 | 14:39 |
| tobberydberg | So maybe, an email to openstack-discuss about this first step as well? | 14:40 |
| tobberydberg | Agree NilsMagnus ... my thought as well! | 14:40 |
| NilsMagnus | when is next meeting? now()+2 weeks? | 14:41 |
| tobberydberg | yes | 14:41 |
| NilsMagnus | so, May 23 | 14:41 |
| tobberydberg | That is right (and shit, on customer visit in Germany that day) :-) But will try to solve that some how :-) | 14:42 |
| tobberydberg | I can reach out to the mailing list and public clouds that doesn't read that list that much as well and try to get them in here as well | 14:43 |
| tobberydberg | More on this topic at this point? | 14:43 |
| tobberydberg | Everyone ok with above plan? | 14:43 |
| ncastele | no more here, discussion will start when we will share our needs :) | 14:44 |
| tobberydberg | :-) | 14:44 |
| tobberydberg | if not more in this, over to next and last agenda topic... | 14:45 |
| tobberydberg | #topic 3. Other topics | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "3. Other topics (Meeting topic: publiccloud_wg)" | 14:45 | |
| tobberydberg | Any other topics that anyone would like to raise? | 14:46 |
| ncastele | nope | 14:47 |
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| NilsMagnus | The change-of-ownership is just an implementation detail on the deletion subject? | 14:47 |
| tobberydberg | no, separate "thing" | 14:47 |
| tobberydberg | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DEN-change-ownership-of-resources | 14:48 |
| NilsMagnus | just asking' as it is on the agenda | 14:48 |
| tobberydberg | just touched it briefly above | 14:48 |
| tobberydberg | we will do followup on that, but as of today, that discussion took place in the cross project team meetings at the PTG | 14:49 |
| NilsMagnus | ok | 14:49 |
| tobberydberg | It was nice talking to you all in Denver! Also nice that you turned up here today! :-) | 14:50 |
| gtema | I am also here, sadly a bit late | 14:51 |
| tobberydberg | welcome gtema :-) | 14:51 |
| NilsMagnus | Is there some folklore here to conclude a meeting? Everyone singing a song? The chairman doing some special dance? | 14:52 |
| gtema | thanks. Since I am also participating in the project_cleanup dev - you are free to ping/ask me | 14:52 |
| tobberydberg | great gtema - we will do followup in that moving forward, and also, feel free to bring status updates here if or/and when you have that =) | 14:53 |
| ncastele | Agree to sing a song, only if it's a Katy Perry's one | 14:53 |
| gtema | oki | 14:53 |
| gtema | no Katy Perry please | 14:53 |
| tobberydberg | haha NilsMagnus - happy that we don't do video calls just now ;-) | 14:53 |
| gtema | Another brick in the wall of Openstack !! | 14:54 |
| tobberydberg | I guess we will have a forum session around ending ceremony in Shanghai ;-) | 14:54 |
| NilsMagnus | too bad, it looked like for a second that gtema volunteered for Katy Perry :) | 14:54 |
| gtema | no way Nils | 14:55 |
| ncastele | I also started to be happy, but this meeting is definitely ending bad from my point of view :( | 14:55 |
| tobberydberg | 5 more minutes to raise a topic ... or sing a song... ;-) | 14:55 |
| ncastele | hopefully I can trust Spotify to give me some KP | 14:56 |
| gtema | well, if people like Kate - I'm fine, it's just I will not sing it ;-) | 14:57 |
| tobberydberg | :-) | 14:57 |
| ncastele | I think I'm the only one going for KP, and as I'm quite new (first time on IRC :o ), I'll not push too much for KP, let's stay discreet | 14:58 |
| tobberydberg | hehe | 14:59 |
| tobberydberg | So I guess time is up, and some of you will go listen to KP... ;-) Thanks for today all! Looking forward to next meeting and what ideas we can proved until then! | 15:00 |
| ncastele | Yes, thanks for the discussion, see u in two weeks | 15:00 |
| gtema | great. See you | 15:00 |
| tobberydberg | o/ | 15:00 |
| tobberydberg | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New meeting time!! Thursday odd weeks at 1400 UTC in this channel!!" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 9 15:00:38 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/publiccloud_wg/2019/publiccloud_wg.2019-05-09-14.01.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/publiccloud_wg/2019/publiccloud_wg.2019-05-09-14.01.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/publiccloud_wg/2019/publiccloud_wg.2019-05-09-14.01.log.html | 15:00 |
| NilsMagnus | cya | 15:02 |
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| adriant | tobberydberg: I've added some notes about existing solution regarding billing to that etherpad | 22:38 |
| adriant | Catalyst built our own, which is opensource, and we support. It isn't exactly any better than cloudkitty, but not exactly worse either. | 22:39 |
| adriant | We built it a long time ago (2013-14?) and have refactored and changed it a few times since, with more planned work on it as we go, with me adding support to it for cron like asyc billing module for exporting data for invoices. Which for us would be a daily triggered process that looks for any accounts which need to billed (has the month finished, | 22:44 |
| adriant | and usage collection is up to date for that account), or account terminations (so we can send out their final invoice right away). It would then create and send the invoices via our ERP system. | 22:44 |
| adriant | We tried merging it cloudkitty, or working with them to fill some of our gaps and move to cloud kitty, but found that process to not be what we wanted to go down. | 22:54 |
| adriant | To be fair I'm likely to do massive rewrites of Distil (and maybe a v3) down the line as I do some work... So I'd potentially be willing to work on a community set of requirements for what other clouds need as a billing solution. | 23:13 |
| adriant | I have to support Distil v2 as is, but would be willing to even collaborate on a greenfields project for a new and better community drive design (if it also fulfils our needs). | 23:14 |
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