Thursday, 2019-12-12

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ttxsmcginnis: looks like you picked up all c-w-i deliverables, and not just libraries. Not saying it's a bad idea, but this goes beyond what PROCESS mandates09:39
ttxhmm, ignore me... those things are actually libraries09:40
* ttx approves aggresively09:47
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: os-traits: release 2.1.0
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: openstackdocstheme 1.31.2
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Move 'openstackdocstheme' to oslo team
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Puppet OpenStack Ussuri Milestone 1
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Release oslo.db for Ussuri milestone 1
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Release oslo.limit for Ussuri milestone 1
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Release oslo.reports for Ussuri milestone 1
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Release oslo.rootwrap for Ussuri milestone 1
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Release oslo.service for Ussuri milestone 1
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Release kuryr for Ussuri milestone 1
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Release monasca-statsd for Ussuri milestone 1
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Release monasca-common for Ussuri milestone 1
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Release ovsdbapp 0.17.1
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Release kolla and kolla-ansible for Train
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: Release cinderlib 1.0.0
openstackgerritMerged openstack/releases master: update release tags for tripleo stein
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openstackgerritMark Goddard proposed openstack/releases master: Release kolla and kolla-ansible 9.0.0 for Train
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openstackgerritThierry Carrez proposed openstack/releases master: [DNM] First draft at a gov/rel consistency check
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smcginnisttx: You doubt me!13:55
smcginnis(seems a very reasonable thing to do)13:55
ttxWas thrown off by monasca-statsd... which sounded like a service13:56
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openstackgerritDmitriy Rabotyagov (noonedeadpunk) proposed openstack/releases master: Release OpenStack-Ansible Train
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openstackgerritDmitriy Rabotyagov (noonedeadpunk) proposed openstack/releases master: Release OpenStack-Ansible Train RC4
openstackgerritDmitriy Rabotyagov (noonedeadpunk) proposed openstack/releases master: Release OpenStack-Ansible Train
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smcginnis_I have an issue. Appointment this morning that I thought would be quick is taking a lot longer. Not sure if I'll be at a good spot for the meeting.15:45
smcginnis_ttx: would you prefer delaying the meeting, or do you want to run it and I'll try to join as soon as I can?15:46
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smcginnis_Sorry everyone. I have to drop off. I will try to get back online ASAP.15:52
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diablo_rojo_phonI'm fine to wait or to just do it. Whatever works.15:58
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ttxLet's wait16:01
ttxThe topics kinda need consensus and/or smcginnis16:02
smcginnis_OK, I'm back, but may be interupted.16:02
smcginnis_We can try to get through what we can?16:02
smcginnis_Sorry about this.16:03
smcginnis_#startmeeting releaseteam16:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Dec 12 16:03:30 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is smcginnis_. Information about MeetBot at
diablo_rojo_phonsmcginnis: we can just wait till you're not busy :)16:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"16:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam'16:03
smcginnis_#chair ttx16:03
openstackCurrent chairs: smcginnis_ ttx16:03
diablo_rojo_phonOr not.16:03
smcginnis_I'm just waiting for someone to come back and call me up, so we'll see how this goes.16:04
fungichairing is sharing!16:04
smcginnis_Line 12016:04
smcginnis_#chair fungi16:04
openstackCurrent chairs: fungi smcginnis_ ttx16:04
smcginnis_#chair diablo_rojo_phon16:04
openstackCurrent chairs: diablo_rojo_phon fungi smcginnis_ ttx16:04
smcginnis_You get a chair, you get a chair, you get a chair (in my best Oprah voice)16:04
diablo_rojo_phonFull disclosure, I did not get my homework from last week done, but am currently working on it.16:05
smcginnis_#topic Countdown email16:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Countdown email (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"16:05
* fungi is a musical chair16:05
smcginnis_diablo_rojo_phon: I think I got it all.16:05
smcginnis_fungi: First chair?16:05
fungifirst chair triangle16:06
smcginnis_Line 57 or so.16:06
smcginnis_ttx: Looks good. The only thing I was thinking of adding is a mention of the V name poll.16:06
smcginnis_Even though that is technically done by what this countdown week covers.16:07
smcginnis_But might get a couple more folks.16:07
ttxyeah... also it's not a releasemanagement thing that much16:07
smcginnis_Any other feedback from anyone on the countdown email content?16:07
ttxfeel free to add though :)16:07
fungithis was the cutoff for services dropping python2 testing, since libraries will be clear to start doing so next week. worth a mention?16:07
smcginnis_Yeah, just thought it was a convenient place to add it.16:07
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smcginnis_fungi: Oh, good point!16:08
smcginnis_That one is release related.16:08
smcginnis_ttx: Want to add a mention about that?16:08
smcginnis_Anything more on the countdown email?16:09
diablo_rojo_phonNone from me.16:09
smcginnis_#topic Review list of stuff in releases but not in governance16:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Review list of stuff in releases but not in governance (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"16:09
ttxfungi: please review my proposed wording for correctness16:10
ttxOK, so I ran an analysis and uncovered ancient artifacts as always16:10
ttxI'm the Indiana Jones of Governance16:10
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smcginnis_It does look like maybe we need an exceptions list.16:11
smcginnis_Another yaml file for the data directory maybe?16:11
ttxI think we can evolve the tool we use to check to add some of the corner cases16:11
ttxLike if a repo is in technical-committee-repos.yaml it's OK16:11
fungirefstack and python-tempestconf were under the refstack team before it was dissolved16:11
fungiand the interop wg adopted it16:12
fungier, adopted those16:12
smcginnis_We have some SIG and WG owned deliverables. And maybe some board owned ones too.16:12
ttxRefstack and the SIGs are another case16:12
ttxOur current stance on those is that they should be released manually16:12
fungiwhere's the ossa repo? should presumably be under sigs16:13
* fungi might just be blind16:13
ttxBut that uncovered another issue... which is that deliverable files in _independent are never really cleaned up16:13
ttxfungi: it's in SIG repos alright16:13
fungioh, right, this is just stuff in releases16:13
ttxJust not in releases16:13
fungisorry :/16:13
ttxSo for old stale _independent deliverable files we have two options16:13
ttxWe can somehow mark them deprecated, so that we don;t accidentally add to them16:14
smcginnis_I do kind of like the historical aspect of those. But I could see either removing them, or adding a new flag that explicitly says active-status: historical or something like that.16:14
fungii think the infra repos there should probably be treated like another sig, since it likely will be one in the not too distant future16:14
ttxbut they would still appear in the releases.o.o site16:14
ttxOr we can aggressively clean them up16:14
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ttxFor now I think we can add a flag to those16:14
smcginnis_They probably should still be shown on releases.o.o, since they were official releases at the time, right?16:15
ttxwhich I can use in my tool to filter them out16:15
ttxsmcginnis_: For old series sure... Independent things are another beast though16:15
ttxThey very much look like an openstack deliverable still, while they are not16:15
ttxI guess we can use that same flag to show them as legacy on the website16:16
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smcginnis_Maybe we could update the sphinx extension to recognize this new flag and display them differently?16:16
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ttxok next.. indfra things16:16
smcginnis_Doesn't seem like that would be too difficult.16:16
fungii think the infra repos there should probably be treated like another sig, since it likely will be one in the not too distant future16:16
ttxWe have three repos that are in Infra (which traditionally does not use openstack/releases)16:16
ttxbut those do16:17
ttx    yaml2ical16:17
ttx    python-storyboardclient16:17
ttx    diskimage-builder16:17
fungiat least one of those didn't start out as an infra project, which is part of the reason it's that way16:17
ttxI think the solution is to make sure they are directly released, for consitency16:17
fungiinfra adopted dib away from tripleo16:17
fungiyeah, i'm fine removing them from the releases repo, but the teams managing them are somewhat independent entitles too16:18
ttxthen I would remove them from the releases.o.o website since they never really belonged there imho16:18
ttxor at least not more than any other infra repo16:18
fungithe dib maintainers may appreciate relying on openstack releases, but i expect they can adapt16:18
ttxok, will handle on case-by-case basis anyway16:19
fungithe storyboardclient lib is mostly dead, because storyboard's rest api is arguably more usable16:19
smcginnis_Can we add docs to somewhere to make easier for them to know what to do without using this team?16:19
ttxsmcginnis_: it's documented in infra docs alright16:19
openstackgerritVishal Manchanda proposed openstack/releases master: [doc]Correcting broken link
fungiyaml2ical is also somewhat independent of the infra team as a whole, but again could probably tag their own releases or ask for help from the rest of the infra folks16:19
ttxNext category is stuff in legacy16:19
ttxI think we can handle them the same way as SIG stuff16:20
ttxand keep them around for now16:20
smcginnis_Some of those are retired.16:20
smcginnis_But no harm keeping them around somewhere.16:20
fungii think they're all retired? thus why they're in legacy.yaml16:20
ttxsmcginnis_: I guess one question is... should we stop at x/ things16:21
ttxI feel bad having x/ things appear in releases.o.o16:21
smcginnis_Yeah. We really shouldn't since that was a move to explicitly separate out the "non-OpenStack" things.16:21
smcginnis_Though they were at one point.16:22
ttxso what would you recommend?16:22
smcginnis_All of them were official at one point, right?16:23
fungiif they're listed in legacy.yaml then yes16:23
smcginnis_I guess independent ones should have this new flag and be reflected right on releases.o.o.16:23
smcginnis_If we still have any placeholders for cycle based ones, those should be removed.16:23
ttxsmcginnis_: there is no "all" in this game. Always corner cases16:23
fungithat file is purely a list of teams and deliverables which were once in reference/projects.yaml, so formerly official openstack deliverables16:24
ttxLike... sqlalchemy-migrate16:24
smcginnis_And past cycles, they should probably stay for historical reference.16:24
ttxBut yeah, those in legacy I feel like we should keep in16:24
ttxShould not be x/ things now16:24
ttxOK next.. alignment issues16:25
smcginnis_sqlalchemy-migrate is technically deprecated I believe.16:25
ttxThose are things where the deliverable in governance does not exactly match the deliverable in releases16:25
ttxProbably need to be aligned on a case-by-case basis16:25
smcginnis_They need to be grouped? Or they are grouped but should be separated out?16:26
fungii'm still unconvinced of the deliverable model allowing multiple repositories per deliverable, especially if they get released at different times16:26
ttxfirst two.. used to be separate deliverables16:26
ttxLast one... has releases while being marked "release-management:none"16:27
ttxI need to check what "current" means for each though16:27
smcginnis_I do prefer separating out in most cases. There are a few that are always released as a whole, but we seem to run into cases where they are grouped but then need to be individually released more often. Easy enough to release a group of separate deliverables.16:27
ttxLast category... things that are not in governance, not in legacy, and now in x/16:27
smcginnis_Hmm, what was release-management:none?16:28
ttxsmcginnis_: for deliverables that are not meant to be released16:28
ttxlike nova-specs16:28
smcginnis_Why are they even listed in the releases repo then?16:28
ttxsmcginnis_: that is the question16:28
fungii agree things which are not meant to be released probably have limited utility for entries in release management16:29
ttxI'm not sure if the egg is before the chicken though16:29
smcginnis_I would be for cleaning those up. It feels odd to me, but maybe I'm missing some reasoning behind it.16:29
ttxLike there were releases but they don;t want any anymore16:29
smcginnis_Could be.16:29
ttxOr they did not want releases but after all did some16:29
fungiahh, so could treat them the same as retired16:29
fungifrom a historical release listing standpoint16:29
smcginnis_That could work.16:29
ttxLike I said, a whole forest of corner cases16:29
smcginnis_If that is indeed the case.16:29
ttxSi fir the last category, are we OK with cleaning them up ? Those are the ones appearing as x/16:30
smcginnis_Thierry "Maze Runner" Carrez16:30
ttxor pointing to an no-longer existant repo, like
smcginnis_Yeah, I think I'm good with just cleaning those up.16:31
smcginnis_doc8 is the only one that I have some concern about since it's widely used, but whether it is active and released outside of here, that's a different discussion than whether it should be present in the releases repo.16:31
fungii think those are probably (in at least some cases) examples of where the tc has failed to properly review retirements16:31
fungiand/or removals from governance16:32
ttxis it widely used?16:32
smcginnis_We really didnt have that process well documented for awhile.16:32
smcginnis_Yeah, at least several use it to lint their rst docs.16:32
smcginnis_Cinder for sure, but I'm pretty sure many of the others I've looked at.16:32
ttxhmm, it should probably be adopted somwhere then16:32
smcginnis_I didn't even realize it was out of this community. I thought it was just a tool we used.16:33
ttxx/ is really for things that are not maintained or depended on16:33
fungisome quick spelunking says we started tracking governance removals that way in september 2015 with the retirement of magnetodb16:33
ttxSame for sqlalchemy-migrate really16:33
smcginnis_I'd say it would be a good openstack-manuals deliverable, but I need to get over that. :]16:33
fungiit might be good to get the governance data corrected for any of those which were formerly official16:34
ttxOK, let me move doc8 to the category just above then. Active non-legacy non-governance stuff16:34
smcginnis_Should we present this list to the TC and let them discuss whether they should be official or not?16:34
fungior whether their retirement should be recorded at least16:35
fungiretirement and/or removal recorded16:35
ttxYeah, we should open a larger discussion for those two16:35
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smcginnis_Yeah, that would be a good outcome of the review to finalize any retirements.16:35
smcginnis_Someone want to take that action? diablo_rojo_phon ?16:35
fungiit leaves gaps in teh historical record otherwise, is my concern16:35
ttxI can take it16:36
smcginnis_Great, thanks ttx16:36
ttxHave to follow-up on most of those really16:36
* diablo_rojo_phon was about to take it but nevermind :)16:36
fungii feel bad advocating for it and not volunteering, but i wouldn't be able to pick it up until early 2020 at this point16:36
ttxI'll introduce a "legacy" flag for things that have _independent files but are now legacy16:36
ttxI'll push infra things to be handled like other infra things16:37
ttxI'll aggressively remove the x/ old inactive things16:37
smcginnis_Love it when a plan comes together.16:37
smcginnis_Maybe make a note some time in January to follow up on the progress?16:37
ttxFor SIG things what did we say?16:37
smcginnis_Exception list?16:37
ttxTreat them like legacy things?16:37
fungiin most cases those are ~abandonware which got carried over from dissolved teams, or are otherwise not being released formally anyway16:38
smcginnis_Those can definitely be treated as legacy.16:38
smcginnis_There are a few that are current with active SIGs though.16:38
fungimight be a good idea to remind their corresponding sigs to think about whether they need them kept around or should retire them properly16:39
ttxok, I'll make slow progress on this, handle low-hanging fruit first16:39
smcginnis_I see those as quasi-official, even though they may not be under governance.16:39
fungilike, security sig has talked about retiring syntribos16:39
ttxThanks for humoring my classification brain16:39
smcginnis_That sounds good. Once we get this cleaned up a bit, we can focus on some of the more interesting corner cases.16:39
fungii guess the others in the sigs list are probably actually active16:40
smcginnis_It's good to review and get things cleaned up. Otherwise things eventually snowball.16:40
fungiso i take back what i said about most being abandonware16:40
fungiit's really just syntribos16:40
smcginnis_There's always a mix.16:40
smcginnis_OK, better move on for now.16:40
ttxa forest I tell you16:40
smcginnis_#topic Review availablility / action / meetings plan until Ussuri-216:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Review availablility / action / meetings plan until Ussuri-2 (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"16:40
smcginnis_M-2 is the week of Feb 10.16:40
ttxI set up actions and meetings and emails for the coming weeks16:41
ttxPlease review, add your availability etc16:41
ttxI have all covered until R-1216:41
ttxLots of skips16:41
smcginnis_Just looking at the skips. I think those make sense for those weeks.16:41
smcginnis_Yeah, looking through, looks like a good plan to me.16:42
diablo_rojo_phonWill do.16:42
ttxJust added a Ussuri-1 topic16:43
ttxso taht we discuss how we finalize processing it tomorrow and Monday16:43
smcginnis_Finalizing would just be processing any milestone-1 releases?16:43
ttxIn theory we do:16:44
smcginnis_#topic Ussuri-1 status16:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Ussuri-1 status (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"16:44
ttx-- Tue-Thu approve as soon as they get a +116:44
ttx-- Fri approve the ones with no feedback at all16:44
ttx-- Mon discuss remaining -1 posted16:44
ttxLooking up the list we have...16:45
smcginnis_I do think we need to change process a little. We state we will propose those releases at the beginning of the week, then process by the end of the week if we don't get the ack before then.16:45
smcginnis_We never seem to be able to do that.16:45
ttxI don;t agree... I feel like we managed to do that16:45
smcginnis_Might be better to leave the deadline week up to the teams, then do our auto-proposed releases later in the week and follow through the next week like currently proposed.16:45
smcginnis_Well, we say propose on Monday. I don't think we've ever done it before Wednesday.16:46
ttxhah! ok16:46
smcginnis_So maybe we just need to get better about that.16:46
smcginnis_Tooling will definitely help once we get that in place.16:46
ttxsure. I was thinking we seem to be able to approve non-feedback ones on Friday amd process exceptions early the week after16:46
smcginnis_Still a bit of a manual process in parts16:46
ttxSo we have a couple of -1s16:47
ttxa couple of shy +1s which I did not feel comfortable single-approving just yet16:47
ttxand a bunch of non-feedback16:47
smcginnis_According to what we have written, we should have them all processed by tomorrow if no negative feedback.16:47
ttxyes. Who will be around to do that?16:48
diablo_rojo_phon..I will if we are okay with me doing that.16:48
diablo_rojo_phonI haven't +W anything yet I don't think.16:48
smcginnis_Sounds good. I should be around if we need any triaging of issues.16:48
smcginnis_Just check comments on any of them to make sure there are no questions or issues raised without leaving a -1.16:49
ttxjust a note... I feel like we did not ping people enough on those16:49
smcginnis_Those we can wait on and make sure the teams are actually ready.16:49
ttxa bunch of them have no cc or anything16:49
diablo_rojo_phonTomorrow I'll go though and +w anything without questions/-1s16:49
smcginnis_ttx: I thought all of them had PTLs and liaison added.16:49
smcginnis_Were there some that I missed?16:49
smcginnis_Apparently I did indeed miss some.16:50
ttxSo we should add a CC today to give them a chance before approving tomorrow16:51
ttxeven consider waiting until Monday for those, I don;t know16:52
smcginnis_diablo_rojo_phon: Can you take note of those and wait if there is no response?16:52
diablo_rojo_phonYeah definitely.16:53
smcginnis_OK, I think we're good there then.16:53
smcginnis_I've added everyone to the reviews.16:53
diablo_rojo_phonCool. Was just about to ask if I should do that.16:54
smcginnis_So hopefully we do get feedback by tomorrow and it's a non-issue.16:54
smcginnis_OK, I should probably get out of here. Anything else for today?16:54
fungijust a heads-up, i'm likely to be pretty much entirely unreachable between the 18th and 30th, so reach out to others on the infra team if you need something in that timeframe (hopefully you're all enjoying some much-deserved rest around then though)16:54
smcginnis_OK, thanks fungi.16:54
diablo_rojo_phonEnjoy fungi!16:55
smcginnis_Hoping it is quiet around here the next few weeks.16:55
fungiinternet is tough to come by on the high seas, otherwise i'd try to check in periodically16:55
smcginnis_OK, I gotta run. I'll be back around soon.16:55
fungithanks smcginnis_!16:55
smcginnis_ooh, a cruise?16:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Release Managers office - Come here to discuss how to release OpenStack components - Logged at"16:55
openstackMeeting ended Thu Dec 12 16:55:50 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:55
openstackMinutes (text):
diablo_rojo_phonThanks smcginnis_!16:55
fungiyup, warm weather and an excuse to avoid family16:55
ttx"No release while fungi stands on open waters"16:55
ttxGood rule of thumb16:56
smcginnis_Sounds like a good plan. (both)16:56
smcginnis_OK, dropping. Thanks all!16:56
openstackgerritMark Goddard proposed openstack/releases master: Release kolla-cli for Train
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