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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Add Ussuri cycle highlights for Neutron https://review.opendev.org/718382 | 00:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Add keystone Ussuri cycle highlights https://review.opendev.org/718748 | 00:20 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: nova: ussuri cycle highlights https://review.opendev.org/712498 | 00:22 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Add kuryr-kubernetes cycle-highlights for Ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718753 | 00:22 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Cycle highlights for ironic https://review.opendev.org/718436 | 00:22 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Cycle highlights for ironic-inspector https://review.opendev.org/718456 | 00:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Release final python-cyborgclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718245 | 00:59 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for adjutant libs https://review.opendev.org/718842 | 01:00 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for barbican libs https://review.opendev.org/718843 | 01:05 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for cloudkitty libs https://review.opendev.org/718844 | 01:07 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for congress libs https://review.opendev.org/718845 | 01:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for cyborg libs https://review.opendev.org/718846 | 01:12 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-freezerclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718247 | 01:14 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-heatclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718248 | 01:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for ironic libs https://review.opendev.org/718847 | 01:20 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for karbor libs https://review.opendev.org/718848 | 01:20 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-keystoneclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718252 | 01:21 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for OpenStackSDK libs https://review.opendev.org/718849 | 01:24 |
| smcginnis | mordred: Would be good to get your ack on that ^ | 01:25 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for magnum libs https://review.opendev.org/718850 | 01:26 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-manilaclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718254 | 01:28 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-masakariclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718255 | 01:29 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for mistral libs https://review.opendev.org/718851 | 01:32 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-monascaclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718257 | 01:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for murano libs https://review.opendev.org/718852 | 01:34 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for neutron libs https://review.opendev.org/718853 | 01:34 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-novaclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718260 | 01:35 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for placement libs https://review.opendev.org/718854 | 01:38 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for qinling libs https://review.opendev.org/718855 | 01:39 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for sahara libs https://review.opendev.org/718856 | 01:40 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for searchlight libs https://review.opendev.org/718857 | 01:40 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for senlin libs https://review.opendev.org/718858 | 01:40 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for solum libs https://review.opendev.org/718859 | 01:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for swift libs https://review.opendev.org/718860 | 01:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for tacker libs https://review.opendev.org/718861 | 01:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-tackerclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718268 | 01:42 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for Telemetry libs https://review.opendev.org/718862 | 01:42 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for tricircle libs https://review.opendev.org/718863 | 01:43 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for trove libs https://review.opendev.org/718864 | 01:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for vitrage libs https://review.opendev.org/718865 | 01:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for watcher libs https://review.opendev.org/718866 | 01:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for winstackers libs https://review.opendev.org/718867 | 01:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Stable branches for zun libs https://review.opendev.org/718868 | 01:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-zaqarclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718273 | 01:47 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Release python-octaviaclient 2.0.1 for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718261 | 01:50 |
| openstackgerrit | Sampath Priyankara (samP) proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-masakariclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718255 | 04:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | Renat Akhmerov proposed openstack/releases master: Release Mistral Ussuri 3 https://review.opendev.org/718896 | 07:03 |
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| evrardjp | smcginnis: Here is a write-up about the idea I already ran by you. https://review.opendev.org/718929 | 07:38 |
| openstackgerrit | dharmendra kushwaha proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-tackerclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718268 | 07:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ivan Kolodyazhny proposed openstack/releases master: Release xstatic-graphlib v.2.1.7 https://review.opendev.org/718961 | 10:38 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Stable branches for ironic libs https://review.opendev.org/718847 | 11:56 |
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| smcginnis | evrardjp: Wow. That's going to take a bit to read through. :) | 12:00 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Release final python-masakariclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718255 | 12:12 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Release final python-tackerclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718268 | 12:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Cycle highlights for cinder https://review.opendev.org/718563 | 12:22 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Release Mistral Ussuri 3 https://review.opendev.org/718896 | 12:28 |
| ttx | smcginnis: see https://review.opendev.org/718994 | 12:37 |
| smcginnis | ttx: Nice! | 12:43 |
| ttx | My understanding is that unless gerrit enables "Forge Committer" rights for everyone, that should be safe | 12:44 |
| smcginnis | ttx: Did you see the discussion after the meeting yesterday about the stein deliverable for tripleo-ansible? | 12:45 |
| smcginnis | ttx: https://review.opendev.org/718468 | 12:45 |
| smcginnis | They want to get rid of their stable/stein branch because apparently what was in stein was not usable. | 12:46 |
| smcginnis | Infra can delete the branch, but given that statement on usefulness, I was wondering if we should remove the entire deliverable so it doesn't show up on releases.o.o. | 12:46 |
| smcginnis | Any thoughts on that? | 12:46 |
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| mordred | smcginnis: I thnik for next cycle we should switch os-client-config and shade to _independent. they only exist for continuity purposes at this point. (also ack on the other patch) | 13:53 |
| smcginnis | mordred: That makes sense to me. | 13:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Stable branches for OpenStackSDK libs https://review.opendev.org/718849 | 14:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/releases master: Add details to unreleased lib check https://review.opendev.org/719027 | 14:24 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Stable branches for zun libs https://review.opendev.org/718868 | 16:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | Goutham Pacha Ravi proposed openstack/releases master: Release final python-manilaclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718254 | 17:46 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: The etherpad migration is still in progress; revised estimated time of completion 18:30 UTC | 17:53 | |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Release final python-heatclient for ussuri https://review.opendev.org/718248 | 17:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Goutham Pacha Ravi proposed openstack/releases master: [manila] Extend cycle highlights for Ussuri https://review.opendev.org/719065 | 18:05 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: [manila] Extend cycle highlights for Ussuri https://review.opendev.org/719065 | 19:24 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Due to a database migration error, etherpad.opendev.org is offline until further notice. | 20:09 | |
| openstackgerrit | Adam Harwell proposed openstack/releases master: Octavia: EOL Ocata and Pike https://review.opendev.org/719097 | 20:12 |
| openstackgerrit | Adam Harwell proposed openstack/releases master: Octavia: EOL Queens branch https://review.opendev.org/719099 | 20:18 |
| rm_work | smcginnis: the ocata branch of octavia was marked EM one year ago -- https://opendev.org/openstack/releases/commit/d57f810ad6555528a4af039b693453b551da4cf2 | 20:37 |
| rm_work | same with pike: https://opendev.org/openstack/releases/commit/375a23874431bec0981e5545933e977d8f398000 | 20:37 |
| smcginnis | rm_work: Yep, just making sure we are following the documented process. | 20:37 |
| rm_work | smcginnis: what further ML stuff is required? | 20:37 |
| rm_work | i don't see anything in https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html that should require a 6-month lead for ML announcement | 20:37 |
| rm_work | this is the relevant thread (though i literally posted this 5 min ago): http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-April/014057.html | 20:38 |
| smcginnis | There "In the absence of identified maintainers the project will immediately enter the 6 month notification period as described under End of Life below." but then the note below isn't very clear. But I had been told we need to wait 6 months after the team announces they no longer wish to maintain a branch to give others time to step up. | 20:39 |
| rm_work | well, per commits, things went EM at least a full year ago | 20:39 |
| smcginnis | So maybe the tonyb or elod can chime in on that, since it's a stable policy question. | 20:39 |
| smcginnis | Yep, everyone did. | 20:39 |
| rm_work | we're about to EOL *rocky* | 20:39 |
| rm_work | because we cannot maintain it because testing is becoming highly unreliable | 20:40 |
| smcginnis | The changes in stable policy changes were to allow others to be able to step in if the main team didn't want to maintain them anymore. | 20:40 |
| rm_work | I guess whether or not we tag it is a procedural thing, but de-facto we will not be maintaining it | 20:40 |
| rm_work | so I feel like it's better to officially mark it as such to avoid confusion | 20:41 |
| smcginnis | So from what I was told, that means 6 months after the team says they no longer wish to maintain it (in the unmaintained phase) someone else can step up. If no one does after the 6 months, then we can eol it. | 20:41 |
| rm_work | ok, so really what we'd do NOW is mark them as unmaintained, remove all our testing/gating, abandon patchsets... | 20:41 |
| rm_work | and then they'd sit in that limbo for 6mo? | 20:41 |
| rm_work | how would it even work if someone wanted to take over maintenance? i'm not sure i'd WANT to allow that, unless i was very confident in the person/org | 20:42 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, there was a lot of discussion about that at the time. | 20:42 |
| rm_work | at this point i'd be tempted to say that as PTL I would refuse to allow anyone to take over maintenance anyway, as those branches SHOULD BE DEAD | 20:43 |
| smcginnis | But giving others a chance to own the older branches was a compromise. | 20:43 |
| rm_work | octavia does not need to be run in lock-step with other services in the cloud -- no reason you can't run train on a liberty cloud (i've personally tested this) | 20:43 |
| rm_work | if people want maintenance, they should upgrade to a newer version. | 20:44 |
| smcginnis | Well, that last sentence I think most of the community would prefer. :) | 20:44 |
| smcginnis | I don't think deployment projects were specifically called out in those discussions. | 20:44 |
| smcginnis | At least that I can recall. | 20:44 |
| rm_work | I will not force a violation of the stable policy by the letter of the law | 20:45 |
| rm_work | but in spirit, i will actively do everything i can to ensure that those branches are dead. | 20:45 |
| smcginnis | Matt Riedemann sent out a good summary after the Berlin Summit, but I'd probably have a hard time tracking that down now. | 20:45 |
| rm_work | so, i guess it's up to the stable team what they want to do with that | 20:45 |
| * rm_work shrugs | 20:45 | |
| smcginnis | Yeah. Personally I'd prefer the teams to be able to explicitly declare it done and that's it. | 20:46 |
| smcginnis | But I know there were a lot of other vocal people arguing for a chance for others (like vendors that are still maintiaining a supporting older releases) to be able to take the work on. | 20:46 |
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| rm_work | i have the patch auto-abandon script handy, i will put it in my crontab if necessary :D | 20:46 |
| smcginnis | :) | 20:47 |
| rm_work | the only vendor we're aware of that ships octavia is redhat, and we work closely with them (over half the cores are redhat) <_< | 20:47 |
| smcginnis | Let's wait and see what folks say. Maybe it's time to revisit this again. Now that it's gone from the theoretical discussion in Berlin to the reality of today. | 20:47 |
| rm_work | we are not dropping anything they support | 20:47 |
| rm_work | well... technically they kinda support queens, but they are aware of this and have given the OK | 20:48 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, I could see vendors still needing to support nova and such, but I would hope they can pick up newer deployment tools. | 20:48 |
| johnsom | Well, there are others, but no one is contributing to Ocata | 20:49 |
| rm_work | o/ | 20:49 |
| rm_work | go back to your PTO! lol, i've got this rant covered :D | 20:49 |
| smcginnis | :) | 20:50 |
| rm_work | IIRC there was something in policy about "extraordinary circumstances" around it being impossible to actually maintain branches due to external factors | 20:51 |
| rm_work | which is legitimately part of what's happening here -- the py2 ecosystem implosion has made things essentially unmaintainable | 20:51 |
| rm_work | still looking for where i saw that... | 20:52 |
| smcginnis | That could be a good argument for going straight to EOL. | 20:52 |
| rm_work | i believe we were slightly ahead of the curve on py3 support, but i would not call anything in either ocata or pike truly workable py3 only | 20:53 |
| clarkb | its important to ntoe that the python2 ecosystem hasn't really imploded | 20:54 |
| clarkb | openstack made some specific decisions that accelerated that for openstack | 20:54 |
| rm_work | lol | 20:54 |
| clarkb | (pypy even intends to maintain python2 forever) | 20:54 |
| smcginnis | Really? Wow. | 20:55 |
| rm_work | so we pointed the gun at our own feet, cool | 20:55 |
| clarkb | smcginnis: ya their implementation of it | 20:55 |
| smcginnis | I also learned jython doesn't even support 3 yet. Like at all. | 20:55 |
| clarkb | so not cpython and openstack never really worked on pypy anyway, but ya its not like python2 is going away | 20:55 |
| smcginnis | Not like I ever want to go near that with a 10' pole. | 20:55 |
| rm_work | yeah more like, dependencies have done things in such a way that it is sometimes impossible with our constraints system to make things work | 20:56 |
| clarkb | rm_work: that is not true either | 20:56 |
| rm_work | i managed to get in a backport to requirements to bump a U-C in rocky which i honestly was surprised ya'll let me do, lol | 20:56 |
| clarkb | we've intentionally set it up such that it breaks | 20:56 |
| clarkb | (I had a great big long argument with gmann over this and basically the end result was openstack wants to use a stick and not a carrot to get off of python2) | 20:57 |
| rm_work | rofl ok i guess we can argue the technicalities of WHY :D | 20:57 |
| rm_work | de-facto it is a mess here | 20:57 |
| clarkb | all you need to do is have env markers specifying what is python2 and what is python3 dep | 20:57 |
| rm_work | i suppose it | 20:57 |
| clarkb | and the issues go aawy | 20:57 |
| rm_work | *i suppose it is incorrect to blame the upstream py2 community entirely | 20:57 |
| rm_work | so one can assume an implied "in the openstack ecosystem" for most of my statements :D | 20:58 |
| clarkb | and really the only reason I care is that I get asked to debug when pip is unhappy with this about once a week :) | 20:58 |
| clarkb | I think the goals are good, but the devs haven't quite caught up to the new reality tet | 20:58 |
| clarkb | *yet | 20:58 |
| gmann | i think that is good before code start breaking and people spend time to debug that | 20:59 |
| rm_work | regardless -- i leave the decision up to ya'll on this i guess, but we will not be accepting new patches for those repos, or maintaining them, or testing against them, or really anything | 20:59 |
| smcginnis | At least one or two cases, projects have needed to resort to keeping a local in-repo copy of upper-constraints once we are past the requirements team support of things. | 20:59 |
| smcginnis | I think that's perfectly valid to do for older branches. | 20:59 |
| tonyb[m] | I shall look ASAP | 20:59 |
| clarkb | gmann: ya but when it fails everyone thinks our mirrors are broken :) | 21:00 |
| smcginnis | Thanks tonyb[m]. I think we need to clarify what needs to be done and how teams are supposed to handle that EM > Unmaintained > EOL transition period. | 21:00 |
| clarkb | gmann: when in reality its because they tried to install python3 dep on python2 and it has nothing to do with the mirror :) | 21:00 |
| clarkb | unfortunately pip says "dep not found" not "dep doesn't match env markers" | 21:01 |
| smcginnis | Or a more confusing error message. | 21:01 |
| rm_work | i guess if leaving them in a weird limbo is what ya'll want to do, go for it, but it's going to cause some (admittedly small, not many people actually use octavia versions that old) disconnect in the community | 21:01 |
| gmann | clarkb: i see. | 21:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tim Burke proposed openstack/releases master: Add Ussuri cycle highlights for Swift https://review.opendev.org/719116 | 22:58 |
| openstackgerrit | Hongbin Lu proposed openstack/releases master: Release python-zunclient 4.0.1 https://review.opendev.org/719117 | 23:11 |
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